The Slow Shift South

by W.F. Price on June 23, 2014

In just a week or so, the International Longshore and Warehouse Union is set to renegotiate contracts for its West Coast port workers. The ILWU has a long history in Seattle and San Francisco, and has won incredibly sweet concessions from ports over the decades. A foreman, for example, makes over $200,000 per year, and a normal employee about $130,000. Getting into the ILWU has become something of a dynastic process. The jobs are passed from father to son and even grandson. Outsiders are treated terribly by those in the union, which prevents them from ever making it in themselves. From all appearances, the ILWU has become little more than a gang.

This is the real problem with unions — like unrestrained corporations they can eventually become monopolistic guilds that reward only insiders at everyone else’s expense.

But it’s a big world out there, and the ILWU isn’t really as “international” as its name suggests. It has no authority over East Coast and Gulf Coast ports which, given the recent expansion of the Panama Canal, has put the union in a tenuous position. Added to this is the refusal of a number of West Coast ports to ship coal to China, “because global warming” or whatever (actually, many locals are simply so spoiled that they don’t like the idea of coal trains going through town, even if they add jobs and inject cash into the local economy). Finally, US manufacturing is shifting to the South as the greens gain political prominence on the West and East Coasts, and high land and labor costs drive manufacturers elsewhere. To Chinese and European shipping magnates these may be mere annoyances for now, but these things all add up, and it’s the bottom line that counts in business.

As I look at the West Coast with its “progressive” leftist policies, which are not a result of need so much as the entitlement born of prosperity, it’s apparent that the entire region is willfully setting itself back in all areas except high tech, which itself is significantly more mobile than manufacturing (i.e. the companies can easily pick up and leave if it’s in their interest). If tech isn’t enough or, heaven forbid, it also leaves, West Coast states are going to be in big trouble. At this point, I don’t see the progressive momentum slowing down, but rather a doubling down on the policies that are undermining the fundamentals of a modern, diversified economy.

The development that is capturing businesses’ attention is the transformation of the formerly slow, lazy and impoverished South – and the Gulf Coast in particular – into a global energy, manufacturing and shipping powerhouse. Despite its relative poverty and reputation for being backward, its growth has been impressive, with states like Texas and Louisiana adding jobs and wealth. In the meanwhile, aside from tech and finance, the coastal cities grow older and stagnant, and families suffer under increasingly burdensome property values and egregiously high working class unemployment, straining social welfare services.

I have no doubt that Asian companies will continue to ship products through West Coast ports, but in the future – thanks in part to the Panama Canal expansion – we can expect to see more of these ships bypassing our ports entirely to head on to friendlier Gulf Coast ports that are not only cheaper, but also offer products that can be shipped back to Asia. In the meanwhile, it’s time for our West Coast politicians to get their act together and change course before they succeed in hollowing out our industrial base. If they aren’t up to the job, they shouldn’t be in office.

{ 100 comments… read them below or add one }

TFH June 23, 2014 at 09:58

we can expect to see more of these ships bypassing our ports entirely to head on to friendlier Gulf Coast ports that are not only cheaper,

Unlike imports/exports going into the Atlantic, which are for a coastline divided among 15+ states (it would be imp0ssible for, say, Florida, to have such unions), the West Coast comprises of only 3 states. Of those three, one state hoards 60% of the coastline, and indeed 100% of the coastline that has good weather.

Since the US imports about $500B/yr from China + Japan + Taiwan + SK, it has to come in through California, giving the longshore unions a monopoly just by being in a very fortunate place at the right time.

It is also the fault of Mexico. If Mexican ports were more competitive, imports from China could go to Mexico, and then be trucked into the US via Arizona.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 09:59

In the meanwhile, aside from tech and finance, the coastal cities

Itself dependent on skilled immigrants from Asia, without which the coastal cities would not have a class of high-tax-paying/low-tax-consuming/dumb enough to believe the TV and vote Democrat class on which to finance the entire edifice on.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 10:07

, it’s apparent that the entire region is willfully setting itself back in all areas except high tech, which itself is significantly more mobile than manufacturing (i.e. the companies can easily pick up and leave if it’s in their interest). If tech isn’t enough or, heaven forbid, it also leaves, West Coast states are going to be in big trouble.

It takes an Asian immigrant tech worker about 20 years to figure out that they have been paying far too much tax, and getting far too little for it.

In the first 20 years, they are focused on establishing their career in a high-skilled field, getting married, getting a wooden box on mortgage, having kids, sending their kids to private school, getting a bigger wooden box on mortgage, and finally getting the kid into the coveted brand-name university.

Up to that point, they have exactly zero time or inclination to educate themselves about US politics, and thus have no clue that they are absolutely the worst off in terms of taxes paid vs. benefits received.

Hell, in California, the lefties are even desperately trying to reclassify Asians as white, so as to conceal their success…

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 10:11

Hell, in California, the lefties are even desperately trying to reclassify Asians as white, so as to conceal their success…

-TFH

It’s inevitable. When the white tax base is no longer sufficient, they’ve got to start looking for others to demonize and steal from. California’s already there.

TFH June 23, 2014 at 10:15

WF Price,

It’s inevitable. When the white tax base is no longer sufficient, they’ve got to start looking for others to demonize and steal from. California’s already there.

Indeed. Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Iranians, etc.) are 14% of California’s population, but probably pay 20-25% of State income tax (up to 13.3% in CA), and also own about 25% of the houses with >$1M in value. They comprise over 50% of the students studying engineering in the better engineering schools of the state (Stanford, Berkeley, CalTech, UCLA).

Asians are just not savvy to US politics, being mostly apolitical. They are in for a tax reaming…

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Jeremy June 23, 2014 at 10:20

ILWU workers in the port of LA/Long Beach have gone on strike two times since I have been here in So.Cal. Their labor force average education is less than a high school diploma, and they all make more than $100,000 a year, with better health benefits than some elected officials.

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 10:31

Asians are just not savvy to US politics, being mostly apolitical. They are in for a tax reaming…

-TFH

Part of the problem is that they believe the propaganda themselves, having accepted the BS they are taught in universities. Many Asians I’ve spoken with seem to truly believe that white racists are out there ready to beat and lynch them, despite the fact that the statistics show that Asians face only the most minuscule threat from white criminals, even (and perhaps especially) in supposedly “racist” places like the South.

Another thing that is left out of the narrative is that the biggest racial pogrom/mass murder in North American history was perpetrated in Mexico — against Chinese! Strange that there doesn’t even seem to be a Wikipedia entry on this act of barbarity. Perhaps some feel it is better swept under the carpet…

TFH June 23, 2014 at 10:42

Many Asians I’ve spoken with seem to truly believe that white racists are out there ready to beat and lynch them,

Yes, unfortunately. In fact, they didn’t believe this as recently as 2005, but strangely believe this now.

Asians have lived in small towns in the South for 40 years. Two Deep South states have elected Indian-American governors on the Republican ticket, meaning the majority of whites voted for them. It doesn’t get more ‘Deep South’ than LA and SC, yet the Repubs of those states voted for Indian governors.

Again, the problem with Asian voters is that the believe what they see on TV. It does not occur to them that the TV is heavily pro-Democrat.

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greyghost June 23, 2014 at 11:14

No more stories like this. I want the rest of the country to think we are a bunch of red neck racist hicks fucking our sisters. I don’t want the people from either coast or Chicago to think other wise. They will come out here and vote in the same shit that messed up their own state.

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Yarbles June 23, 2014 at 12:21

Bill-

I’ve been lurking your website for some time now and it’s incredible how our experiences and opinions on Seattle and the PNW parallel.

After graduating from UW a few years ago, I couldn’t find a job in Seattle and decided to look elsewhere. I couldn’t take the passive aggressive and elitist attitudes that my fellow underemployed 20-somethings seemingly all possessed either, so it seemed like it would be refreshing change. My friends thought I was crazy when I broke the news that I was moving to the Midwest for work.

One year later I realized that my Coast Guard experience (which is what originally brought me out to Seattle) would allow me to work offshore in the Gulf supplying the oil rigs. There is such a demand for these positions (all of which pay at least $300/day) that I was called 2 weeks after I applied and was basically told I was hired. No interview or anything. There are hard working guys in my company who can barely read or write making 60k and getting 4 months off a year. All you have to do is pass a piss test and do what you’re told and you’ll be fine. Lots of real diversity in these jobs too, with the exception of very few women (go figure).

While I do think the PNW is incredibly beautiful (I actually prefer the weather up there to the gulf), I completely agree with your take on the future of the region. I sort of hope the area goes full Detroit and collapses due to under-deversifying + being out competed from Asia. All the members of the parasitic class would leave for greener pastures, property would be affordable again, and you’d actually be able to meet some genuine people regularly.

I can live anywhere with this job so I keep looking at places on the pennensula and Bellingham, but I’m still torn. I think it’s only a matter of time before WA starts taxing income. There’s just not enough people there that realize what made WA such a great alternative to CA and they’re going to ruin what made it successful.

Keep up the good work!

PS- Thought it was funny you found Joel Kotkin’s work. I had been reading him for awhile and the similarities between your work and his are obvious. Didn’t put 2+2 together until you posted about it though.

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Yarbles June 23, 2014 at 12:49

Typo- Should say $70k

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Anonymous June 23, 2014 at 12:57

Jeremy
ILWU workers in the port of LA/Long Beach have gone on strike two times since I have been here in So.Cal.

I make a living as an importer. Ten tears ago my cargo would typically come through Long Beach and then be transported by train to a major East Coast city. I well remember the Long Beach strike as I had a container stranded for a couple of weeks.

Every delay in inbound shipping makes my business harder to manage as it extends the material planning horizon. I have seen competitors enter my business and struggle because they just can’t find a crystal ball that works 24 weeks ahead. I have one (24 week crystal ball, that is) and so I do pretty well.

All my cargo now comes through the Panama Canal and is typically unloaded in New York. Transit time has been reduced by about a week from about six weeks to about five weeks.

Here’s an interesting little fact. Trans-Pacific container shipping is incredibly inexpensive. The maritime containerized global transportation system is actually one of the modern world’s invisible wonders. (Needless to say it’s yet one more unrecognized priceless gift from men to women). It costs about the same to ship my cargo from Shanghai into a bonded warehouse in a major East Coast city (over 8,000 miles) as it does to get the cargo out of the bonded warehouse and into my warehouse (20 miles).

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 13:08

@Yarbles

I helped write manuals for Kerr McGee in China back in ’98. I really should have stayed with that company — I’d probably be doing very well today.

And yes, Kotkin’s outlook is very similar to mine, and I’d never read him until recently. Must be because he has the same conservative, urban Democrat values that my dad’s family lived by until the neoliberals took over in the 90s. And also because we’ve come to similar conclusions just by looking at objective reality.

As for your future, I’d recommend avoiding the Pac. NW for now. You can always buy some property in a nice place such as Port Townsend and use it as a summer getaway, but unless you’re in tech the region has little to offer the young and upwardly mobile. I’d have left long ago if it weren’t for the kids.

Laguna Beach Fogey June 23, 2014 at 13:43

It’s inevitable. When the white tax base is no longer sufficient, they’ve got to start looking for others to demonize and steal from. California’s already there.

Indeed, judging from the hordes of Asians pouring into our communities (in effect creating little Asian colonies), they’re practically begging for a reaming.

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Shmiggen June 23, 2014 at 14:02

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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revver June 23, 2014 at 14:44

Any updates on the progress of the “employment game” book?

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Jaego June 23, 2014 at 14:55

I agree in part. Coal is King. We have lots and should be investing massively in it – completely supervised (not run) by a sane Federal Government to make the mining as safe as possible and the environmental damage as minimal as possible.

Asians are very savvy at the level of bureaucracy though. They get loans Whites can’t get – and have captured entire industries such as the motel industry.

Maybe we can trick Feminists into becoming coal miners with talk of empowerment. Be read with cameras as they emerge after their shifts….

After one of the last big cave ins, one mining executive blamed the local people of Kentucky and said they need to get Mexicans to do the mining.. This was when they were still trying to rescue men and find bodies. There is simply no limit to the possible selfishness and greed of Capitalists. That greed is energy to be harness and used for the good of the nation. It is never to be allowed to run free.

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James Hamel June 23, 2014 at 15:06

This article brings back unpleasant memories of the 1980′s at the Miami cruise ship terminal. When you got off the bus, thousands of pieces of luggage were laid out on the tarmac next to the tourist buses. Once you found your luggage you had to get one of the big black “baggage handlers” to take it onto the ship for you. He would do the shakedown on the mostly elderly white passengers to give him a tip for doing this service which he was probably very adaquately compensated for. I remember seeing this nonsense going on when I took a couple of cruises out of Miami in the 80′s. I never have had any treatment like this from any other employees in any other cruiseship ports so I doubt if these thugs were members of the ILWU or just criminals straight off the streets and hired because of their connections to thugs already employed there. Eventually an end was put to this and the baggage at Miami was put onto the ships without the passenger having any dealings with the baggage handler. I would like to find out what moves were taken to eventually put an end to the shakedowns. I would imagine it was because of customer complaints.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 15:09

Shmiggen,

I was the staunchest of Republicans until the androsphere in general (and Dalrock in particular) exposed how much misandry is present in contemporary conservative thought, and how when talking about unreciprocated sacrifices that men should make for ungrateful sluts, Republicans treat men in much the same way a leftist demands the rich be under an 80% tax rate (also a man).

Leftists want to tax a rich man due to his wealth.
Republicans want to tax a rich man due to his gender.

But they both want the same person to make sacrifices in return for little to nothing.

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Wobbegong June 23, 2014 at 15:32

‘Many Asians I’ve spoken with seem to truly believe that white racists are out there ready to beat and lynch them,’

The Asians and Indians down under I’ve talked don’t seem to fear white anglo Aussies. They detest middle eastern moslems, (being Hindu or Buddhist makes you a target and can’t understand why white Australia allows them to get away with so much crap.

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 15:36

@TFH

The Republicans at least may be receptive. The Democrats – at least at this point – are stuck in the “gimmedat” mentality that demands men accept eternal guilt and obligations.

When I was a little kid, the most stalwart defenders of men and their interests were old-school Democrats. The Republicans were favored by women as late as the 1970s, but things have switched around in this way or that.

I have no party loyalty whatsoever. But I can’t abide West Coast progressives, who are embodied by Trotskyite Bolsheviks like Kshama Sawant.

TFH June 23, 2014 at 15:45

WFPrice,

The problem is, when a democracy is into the 3rd-4th generation of full voting (i.e. female suffrage), then elections effectively become about buying women’s votes with more gimmedats. This is by far the largest factor in any election at this late stage, and will crowd out most other issues.

The US may never again have a Presidential election that is not drenched in some ‘women’s issues’ theme as the dominant topic.

The only real solution is for the state to figure out that they can let all the laws they used to buy women’s votes include expiry provisions that let them quietly expire every 8 years. That way, they can keep buying women’s votes with the same rotating set of laws, while women never figure out that they are voting for the same thing they voted for 8 years prior.

The reason they won’t figure it out is because they never judge any net progress of ‘feminism’ (i.e. they will never stop talking about the ‘pay gap’ or ‘rape culture’, no matter how much statistical proof is provided that these are bogus). The fact that they never measure net progress of ‘feminism’ means that they can be bribed with the same tired old memes again and again. That way, the state can keep women voting the way they want, without actually destroying the system.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 15:47

Wobbegong,

The Asians and Indians down under I’ve talked don’t seem to fear white anglo Aussies.

A close relative of mine married into a wealthy (white Anglican) Australian family. They are great people, and they invited me down there over XMas and I stayed at their house for 2 weeks. They took me to see the Boxing Day Test at the MCG, in a nice private box with a buffet lunch.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 16:04

Jaego,

They get loans Whites can’t get –

Not true. Asians (yellow or brown) do not get affirmative action in the US. You will have to back up that claim with a source far more reputable than Stormfront, and prove that it is pervasive, not just an anecdote of one Asian somewhere.

There is simply no limit to the possible selfishness and greed of Capitalists.

As I often say, race-centric ideologies are economically left-wing in nature. A free-market, free-enterprise system will naturally not make race the top priority.

Also, race-centric and ethno-centric platforms are feminism’s best friend (as women are all-important to such ideologies, turning those ideologies into goddess cults).

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 16:13

Not true. Asians (yellow or brown) do not get affirmative action in the US. You will have to back up that claim with a source far more reputable than Stormfront, and prove that it is pervasive, not just an anecdote of one Asian somewhere.

-TFH

What Jaego doesn’t understand is that Asians often get loans from their communities (e.g. the Korean “kye“), whereas without lawyers and banks involved whites (including white nationalists) will typically knife each other in the back. It didn’t always used to be this way — whites used to have communities and social trust until perhaps the 70s or so. Asians, for their part, will likely eventually lose their social trust, too, just like the Chinese did under Communism. I’ve never seen any people more ruthless toward each other than mainland Chinese.

TFH June 23, 2014 at 16:28

What Jaego doesn’t understand is that Asians often get loans from their communities

Yes. Which is legit. Indians have succeeded in motels and hotels mainly due to unity between multiple cousins, aunts, and uncles towards the greater goal of building a large collective pie. Same goes for Korean dry-cleaners.

Those are called old-fashioned family bonds.

So when immigrants are unsuccessful, that is bad.
When they are successful, that is also bad.
When they stay in their own countries and US corporations outsource jobs to them, that is also bad.

I suspect that there are no white nationalists who are also successful entrepreneurs or corporate executives.

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 16:44

I suspect that there are no white nationalists who are also successful entrepreneurs or corporate executives.

-TFH

Oh I highly doubt that. Lots of successful entrepreneurs probably are, because being a successful businessman often requires a more aggressive, unconventional psychology. Therefore, you’d expect non-mainstream political views of all sorts to be somewhat more common amongst successful entrepreneurs.

White nationalism isn’t really a threat — it’s just like any nationalism, only (non Southern) white Americans aren’t exactly sure who they are, so they base it on race alone. Naturally, that doesn’t work very well, because national identity is about more than just race. If another proto-nationalist identity emerges amongst whites in the US anytime soon (again, aside from the South, which already has one), my bet is that will be in the rust belt/Great Lakes region.

Charles Martel June 23, 2014 at 16:48

TFH
I suspect that there are no white nationalists who are also successful entrepreneurs or corporate executives.

I think it’s funny you’re so quick to invoke the language of political correctness when it comes to your own interests.

I’m a successful entrepreneur and I see nothing wrong with advocating the interests of white people. I just don’t see why we white men should always be expected to take it in the ass so everyone else can advance. I suspect you might consider me a white nationalist.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 17:00

I suspect you might consider me a white nationalist.

No, I don’t. A WN is someone who talks primarily about that, which you don’t. A WN is also someone who obsesses over birth rates, and feels pain when seeing a mixed-race couple with a child, on a daily basis.

I see you didn’t notice that I was defending Southern whites upthread..

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 17:09

WFPrice,

Lots of successful entrepreneurs probably are, because being a successful businessman often requires a more aggressive, unconventional psychology.

I agree with this, which is why I don’t think many of them are WNs. In fact, among successful entrepreneurs, I see red-pill thought as the most common trait, as it is the most unconventional, and feminism would be fatal for any real entrepreneur.

WNs, on the other hand, seem to be mired in very outdated and unoriginal ideas, is very pro-feminism, and also seem quite prone to letting their opponents dictate what they should think. For example, they used to be quite certain that Irish, Italians, Slavs, and Jews were not white (they still say that about Jews), until Hollywood and the govt. decided that they are. They will similarly go along with it when the state decides that Asians are ‘white’. As strange as that sounds now, it will be what the go along it when the laws are penned.

A lot of effort used to be poured into the notion that Irish were a form of ‘white African’ (and that both Irish and blacks were subhuman), as recently as 1899, just 115 years ago. Now, WNs will act as though they never used to think that.

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Norn June 23, 2014 at 18:21

I remember a few years ago this union went on a rampage and did alot of vandalism and no one was ever charged and the cops did nothing. (This was shortly after Barry was “elected” and the unions felt empowered and protected)Probably cause they were fellow union thugs in arms. If you are a Seattle cop who has a bad attitude stay out of Canada and especially BC! North Korea is a more suitable holiday spot for you.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 23, 2014 at 19:17

I suspect that there are no white nationalists who are also successful entrepreneurs or corporate executives.

That would be incorrect.

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Charles Martel June 23, 2014 at 21:06

TFH
A WN is also someone who obsesses over birth rates, and feels pain when seeing a mixed-race couple with a child, on a daily basis.

I wouldn’t say I obsess over birth rates but the writing is very clearly on the wall for countries like Italy and Spain with native fertility rates around 1.2. The rest of us aren’t that far behind and there is nowhere a white country with above replacement fertility rates. That could change I suppose, but I think the more likely outcome is that whites dwindle to 2 or 3% of the global population in a hundred years or so. Let’s hope the Chinese can keep the lights on.

It depends on exactly how the couples are mixed, but I have two reactions to mixed-race couples. An intellectual reaction, which is fairly neutral, and a primitive, instinctive reaction, which is the more authentic I think.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 21:11

Let me clarify that being an occasional partisan for one’s own group (white or otherwise) is not a ‘nationalist’.

I define a race nationalist (white or otherwise) as someone who comes to the androsphere and still talks about race much more than about Men’s Rights/red pill/anti-misandry, effectively derailing the discussion. For example, Jaego talks only about race, hardly ever about misandry.

The race nationalists (white or otherwise) who comment in the ‘sphere exhibit a persistent loserdom in how they worry about some Indians outcompeting them for engineering jobs, or some Hispanics dating blonde white women, or some Koreans having enough family coordination to compete in businesses that can capitalize on that. That is just plain whining by a person who has been outcompeted.

I attack these people not because they can affect me in any way in race matters, but rather because any race-centric ideology is inherently helpful to feminism since it places extremely high value on women without proportionate accountability on women.

If someone still thinks ‘race’ is a more important issue than misandry, then they still don’t ‘get it’.

And yes, I have often defended whites from black agitators who do the same thing : whining about pre-1865 slavery as though US enslavement of blacks is the only example of slavery that has ever occurred, and putting race ahead of the fight against misandry. ‘Feminism’ has led to the imprisonment of a lot more law-abiding black men in the last 20 years than the ordinary white man who spends his time in a cubicle has…

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 21:22

Charles Martel,

I wouldn’t say I obsess over birth rates but the writing is very clearly on the wall for countries like Italy and Spain with native fertility rates around 1.2.

Yes. The same is true in East Asia, and even among educated people in Muslim countries like Turkey and Iran (1 child per woman is typical if the woman is educated)…..

White conservative Americans are the only educated people in the world who still often have 3 or more kids, which is good, so their future is actually brighter than that of almost any other educated group in the world.

Filter out the uneducated peoples of the world, and white conservative Americans are actually among the highest fertility among the educated peoples of the world (higher than white leftists, Europeans, Japanese, educated Chinese, educated Indians, educated Muslims, educated Latin Americans, etc.).

That uneducated people have high fertility almost doesn’t matter, and is nonetheless a bigger problem for the other educated groups I mentioned, than for white conservative Americans.

It depends on exactly how the couples are mixed, but I have two reactions to mixed-race couples. An intellectual reaction, which is fairly neutral, and a primitive, instinctive reaction, which is the more authentic I think.

Having grown up in the midwest among 95% whites, I can say that almost no-one has a problem with their white daughter marrying a colored man IF he is of equal or greater socio-economic status than the white man she could get.

About one-third of Indians born in the US have intermarried with whites (including most of the people I knew growing up), and in Britain this is even more true. If anyone doubts this I can post Facebook pages of some of them so you can peruse their photos. There is no real objection if the socio-economic class is not compromised.

So here I am saying that most whites are NOT racists in such matters :) .

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Charles Martel June 23, 2014 at 21:26

TFH
A lot of effort used to be poured into the notion that Irish were a form of ‘white African’ (and that both Irish and blacks were subhuman), as recently as 1899, just 115 years ago. Now, WNs will act as though they never used to think that.

There is no-one alive today who thought anything 115 years ago.

As an immigrant myself I have always tried hard to honor the cultural traditions of the USA and to integrate fully into American life while contributing what I can.

I’m perfectly ready to accept anyone as long as they offer me the same courtesy. My tolerance starts to dry up when people tell me what I should think. It evaporates completely when someone explains why I should hand over my stuff.

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TFH June 23, 2014 at 21:37

Charles Martel,

It evaporates completely when someone explains why I should hand over my stuff.

I don’t think any immigrants say that of their own accord. They arrive with the intention of working (as their home country doesn’t even have a welfare state). Only after the government bribes them at length do they, after many years, accept what is being dangled in front of them. Even this didn’t start happening until the 1990s or so, and was not a major apparatus until Obama.

So the enemy is the vote-buying, division-fostering government. Not the (legal) immigrant who arrived with genuine intentions of earning a living (i.e. almost all of them).

Skilled immigrants don’t take it even then, as you know. They still work long hours at their jobs, as you can see everywhere. They are the most exploited group of all in terms of taxes paid vs. nothing received in return.

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W.F. Price June 23, 2014 at 21:50

It depends on exactly how the couples are mixed, but I have two reactions to mixed-race couples. An intellectual reaction, which is fairly neutral, and a primitive, instinctive reaction, which is the more authentic I think.

-Charles Martel

I know from my travels that Americans are a lot more tolerant of it than most other people. White Americans in particular, I should say. I once had a very attractive (stunning, actually) light mulatto female friend (not a girlfriend) with whom I’d hang out on occasion. I was a teen with plenty of same-age options at the time and she was somewhat older, so I wasn’t a beta hanger on, but rather just enjoying the social cred.

When I’d go out for a walk with her on the street, the reactions from black guys were… violent. I can’t really put it any other way. They would literally flip out just seeing me walk side by side with the woman. And I wasn’t even sleeping with her. I was eighteen at the time, and full grown black men would threaten to murder me simply because they saw me talking to this woman — from across the street. She seemed to enjoy it despite my obvious discomfort, which taught me a thing or two about women at a pretty young age.

I had similar experiences in China. I know that if I, as a white man, behaved in the same manner toward mixed race couples that involved a white female, I’d be convicted and sentenced to prison. I’ve always known it. This is why I simply don’t understand why anyone who isn’t white would even care what white men think of them dating white women. It’s a non-issue. White men are not legally allowed to object to it. And that principle applies only to white men.

As for TFH, honestly, he’s pretty much white. I don’t mean to be dismissive of the distinct heritage of South Asians, but really, he just looks like Germans would if they selected for a good tan for a couple dozen generations. A very pale, tall (and wealthy) Anglo friend of mine married a South Asian who looks similar to TFH. Really good-looking woman (much better looking than my friend), also tall and a great tan as I see it. My friend did pretty well, I must admit.

Personally, I like the idea of my people living on as roughly the same type they’ve been for a long time. But a dash of foreign blood here and there is probably a good thing, so long as it isn’t forced on anyone. I’m doing my part, anyway. I’ll post my Father’s Day pics soon to prove it.

Charles Martel June 23, 2014 at 22:01

TFH
So the enemy is the vote-buying, division-fostering government.

Agreed. As I’ve said before the problem is the Federal Government, together with any group that sees the Government as a bludgeon for their enemies or a means to special treatment.

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Shmiggen June 24, 2014 at 01:15

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Ferlin Husky June 24, 2014 at 02:34

“I suspect that there are no white nationalists who are also successful entrepreneurs or corporate executives.” TFH

TFH has absolutely no idea what corporate executives or successful entrepeneurs have WN views. These people know that it would be career or business suicide to make their WN views known in public. The people that TFH sees who advertise their WN views on the internet are the people who have nothing to lose. Successful people usually don’t come out with their WN views until they have made their money and are retired and pretty well untouchable by organizations like the ADL and SPLC.

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Anonymous June 24, 2014 at 02:40

“I suspect that there are no white nationalists who are also successful entrepreneurs or corporate executives.” TFH

I think that TFH is wrong in making this statement. Successful entrepeneurs and corporate executives who hold WN views know that it would be career or business suicide to go public with their views. If highly successful people come out publically with their WH views it is usually after retirement when their money is safely out of reach of the ADL and SPLC lawyers. The people who are all over the internet with WN views are people who have nothing to lose by expressing their racialist views.

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SfcTon June 24, 2014 at 03:54

While the jobs from.the west coast and up north are welcome, the people are not. Stay put and stop ruining our towns, cities, counties and states. Most of y’all are locusts without the charm, hell bent in turning our way of life into the mess you recently left.

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Rod June 24, 2014 at 05:31

“Many Asians I’ve spoken with seem to truly believe that white racists are out there ready to beat and lynch them, despite the fact that the statistics show that Asians face only the most minuscule threat from white criminals,”
This appears to be the case. I recall that, after the Korean-American nutcase went on a shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, not only the Korean-American community but also news channels in Korea were all a-buzz about the coming “backlash” from this incident against Koreans in America, some speaking as if it had already happened. Yet nothing happened. (After 9/11, the first concern voiced by some Asian Americans I knew was that Muslims in America would be attacked, their mosques burned down, etc.) Yet such incidents were few and far between. Such wild delusions of victimhood! Sigh.

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Stoltz June 24, 2014 at 06:58

@Shmiggen

In Mr. Price’s defense, he did post some time ago that he was going to start branching out from his continuous rhetoric about Father’s Rights into other areas that may not touch directly on the subject.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 09:35

I don’t think any immigrants say that of their own accord. They arrive with the intention of working

Most of them, we can argue, now arrive with the intention of taking advantage of the US taxpayer for their own benefit (and that of their extended family). The US is importing entire third world villages to these shores. This isn’t going to end well.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 10:14

Laguna Beach Fogey,

Most of them, we can argue,

Given that the US imports unskilled immigrants in much greater numbers than skilled immigrants, this may be true. But that is still the fault of the US govt. than the immigrants themselves (many of whom are themselves surprised that America even allows this).

But this is not true of skilled immigrants, who earn much more than the national average, and are the worst-exploited group in terms of taxes paid vs. benefits received. Why would they even work in a thankless, tedious, relatively-repulsive-to-women engineering job if they didn’t have to?

Ferlin Husky/Anonymous,

So you posted twice, using ‘Anonymous’ to not use the handle you already used and revealed. How smart. This does nothing to change my views that the most committed racists are the least impressive members of each race.

No, I don’t think what you said is true. Many successful entrepreneurs, after they get to know someone, are openly vocal about red-pill views, which is even more career-damaging than WN views. Red-pill ideas are vastly more scientifically sound as well, and far more original (vs. WN views, which are unoriginal, old, and usually scientifically unsound).

Going by the race nationalist (of any race) commenters in the androsphere (as defined by those who care much more about race topics than misandry), there is a common theme of resignation, bitterness at being out-competed, and woman-pedestalization, as well as mutually-exclusive opinions in which they fail to see the massive contradictions.

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Jaego June 24, 2014 at 11:00

Oh my topic took off without me. But better late than never. Here’s Many articles about Federal Business Loans to Minorities. Women get such things too:

http://www.amren.com/search/?q=low%20interest%20loans%20to%20minorities

I admit that ethnic networking and thriftiness still plays a part. We used to do such things too and should again now that we have to compete for survival in out own countries – and with our own goverments against us.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 11:10

Why would they even work in a thankless, tedious, relatively-repulsive-to-women engineering job if they didn’t have to?

Because they can earn much more here than they could back home. And, like I pointed out, they are in a position to import their families and villages to this country, who can then extort resources from US taxpayers like so many parasites.

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Jaego June 24, 2014 at 11:12

Mr Price: White Nationalism has moved on. It’s now massively awake on the subject of Men’s Rights. Time for you to change your view perhaps? I’m sure you were right about us at some point, but you no longer are.
http://www.counter-currents.com/2014/06/sexual-serfdom/#more-47527

And no one ever said culture doesn’t matter. We don’t want Bosnian Muslims. But Serbs and Croats? Great. Armenians and Lebanese? Good people who share part of our culture via Christianity. But they aren’t White and lack the Pagan roots, Germanic, Celtic, and Greco-Roman that help make us who we are.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 11:21

Jaego,

Here’s Many articles about Federal Business Loans to Minorities.

Fail. Asians are not ‘minorities’ under the lefto-PC definition, and do not get these loans in the way a black or Hispanic or white woman would get them.

That is the subtle thing you have missed. Koreans dominate dry-cleaning, and Indians dominate motels and gas stations, NOT for the reason you mentioned.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 11:33

Laguna Beach Fogey,

Because they can earn much more here than they could back home. And, like I pointed out, they are in a position to import their families and villages to this country, who can then extort resources from US taxpayers like so many parasites.

You think a highly-skilled engineer comes from a village?

LOLOLOL!!!

You seem to have a mental block about the huge difference between a skilled immigrant and an unskilled one. Also, Asians don’t get affirmative action.

Satya Nadella was recently named the CEO of Microsoft, succeeding Steve Ballmer. This is one of the most powerful jobs in software. Did he ‘import his village to leech off of the US taxpayer’? You actually think YOU are subsidizing HIM? Lulz :) .

Or how about Shahid Khan, a self-made Billionaire (net worth, $4 Billion – one of the 30 richest people in America). Totally self-made despite being an immigrant from the Punjab, and now also owns an NFL team.

Here is him with his wife Anne. They have two kids.

Is he a ‘third worlder from a village’ leeching off the US taxpayer? If you really think that, then the daily paranoia you live under is punishment enough.

Lastly, how about another Punjabi immigrant : Sohaib Abbasi, the CEO of Informatica. He is the CEO of a well-known, publicly traded tech company. Here is a picture of him with his surprisingly well-aging wife, after they donated $5M to Stanford to create an Islamic studies center.

Is his highest priority to ‘leech off the US taxpayer’?

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 11:36

The Shahid Khan pics link didn’t take.

Here are Shahid and Ann Khan. Shahid Khan has a net worth of $4B, and is an immigrant from the Punjab. The archetype of the rags-to-riches immigrant dream – an inspiration to any sane person.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 11:43

Mr Price: White Nationalism has moved on. It’s now massively awake on the subject of Men’s Rights.

Unfortunately, in my experience, there are still a lot of conservative, racially-conscious White men who refuse to take the Red Pill, preferring instead to put women on a pedestal, holding out for a fairytale Disney romance. There is much work to be done with these guys.

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Jaego June 24, 2014 at 11:46

Read down to the bottom: this part of the Labyrinth, this leg of the Octopus does consider “Asian Indians” and “Asian Pacific Islanders” to be minorities who deserve to be helped.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/229857-commerce-considers-labeling-arab-americans-a-disadvantaged-minority

It’s good you don’t know all about this anymore than I do. If you did, that would probably mean that you were part of it.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 11:48

Unfortunately, in my experience, there are still a lot of conservative, racially-conscious White men who refuse to take the Red Pill, preferring instead to put women on a pedestal, holding out for a fairytale Disney romance.

This has been my primary problem with ALL race nationalism, whether white, black, yellow, or brown. It is built around giving women immense power, and removing all accountability from them. Hence, any ethno-centric ideology becomes a goddess cult, and by default a huge ally to feminism.

Ethno-centric ideologies (ALL of them) are feminism’s best friend.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 11:50

Is his highest priority to ‘leech off the US taxpayer’?

Their highest priority is to advance the interests of their tribe by whatever means necessary, including (but not limited to) leeching off the US taxpayer.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 11:55

Jaego,

That just says ‘services’. It does not imply actual loans, nor that the loans are advantaged enough that an entire industry can be out-competed on the basis of them.

Try again.

Since blacks get the most benefits by far, why aren’t they the ones dominating drycleaning (instead of Koreans), and gas stations (instead of Indians)?

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W.F. Price June 24, 2014 at 11:56

Shahid Khan has a net worth of $4B, and is an immigrant from the Punjab. The archetype of the rags-to-riches immigrant dream – an inspiration to any sane person.

-TFH

With that ‘stache he looks like Mario from Mario bros. :)

But hey, if you’ve got that kind of money, why not go for whatever look you please?

TFH June 24, 2014 at 12:12

With that ‘stache he looks like Mario from Mario bros

I recently went to a talk where the aforementioned Sohaib Abbasi was interviewing the aforementioned Shahid Khan (which is partly why I brought them both up), and he asked him about the ‘stache..

Skip to 16:30 for those interested in the story behind the ‘stache. See the whole thing for the story about how he became a billionaire despite being an immigrant back in the 1960s…

SK said that it was the mustache his grandfather had, so he wanted to have it for that reason.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 12:19

Their highest priority is to advance the interests of their tribe by whatever means necessary, including (but not limited to) leeching off the US taxpayer.

Not necessarily. You assume ‘tribe’ is ethnicity, and thus assume everyone has to think like you. Why can’t a ‘tribe’ be red-pill-thinking men? Free-market, small-government people? Mine is. I hate all manginas, even Indian ones.

Why are Indians the Republican governors of two Deep South states, at present? Their electoral victory means most whites voted for them, and there are very few Indians in those states.

And the BIGGEST leeching off the US taxpayer, by far, is by women consuming taxes paid by men. That is orders of magnitude larger than any perceived benefit that you think skilled Asian immigrants get (i.e. zero, as they pay a lot more than they receive, in taxes).

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 12:25
Jaego June 24, 2014 at 12:30

TFH: read the first paragraph: the Minority Business Development Agency “helps minority entrepreneurs gain access to capital, contracts, and trade opportunities.” Just “services”, huh?

Your desire to win turns a discussion into a needless argument. Have you thought about becoming a Lawyer? Schopenhauer had a great quote about debating with a man and suddenly realizing he wasn’t in a contest of minds but of wills. Anyway, I win.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 12:47

Jaego,

Your desire to win turns a discussion into a needless argument. Have you thought about becoming a Lawyer? Schopenhauer had a great quote about debating with a man and suddenly realizing he wasn’t in a contest of minds but of wills. Anyway, I win.

Weak, weak, weak. As I said, Asians (yellow or brown) are not ‘minorities’ in the US legal sense.

You could not provide proof, even after extensive Googling. Simply declaring ‘I win’ without being able to back up your imaginary beliefs is just lame. It is a well-known fact that Asians not only don’t get affirmative action, but are actually discriminated against, so as to suppress their ‘politically incorrect’ success.

As I often say, race-obsessed people tend to be the least impressive members of that race, which sadly is something you have demonstrated here today. Blaming another group for your self-inflicted failures is not the solution, Jaego.

Misandry is a much, much, much bigger issue, but you aren’t at the point where you can recognize that.

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W.F. Price June 24, 2014 at 12:50

TFH: read the first paragraph: the Minority Business Development Agency “helps minority entrepreneurs gain access to capital, contracts, and trade opportunities.” Just “services”, huh?

-Jaego

You know, anybody can claim to be Hispanic. Western Europeans are, after all, Iberian in origin (Iberia was the ice age refuge). Those of Irish descent are allegedly related to a tribe of Spaniards who sailed north long ago, and Welsh cluster genetically with Spanish more than any other Europeans. So go ahead and claim your piece of the pie! It isn’t illegal if you consider yourself a minority. As Hispanics themselves say: you’re Hispanic if you say you are. Hell, Mitt Romney is technically “Hispanic.” Yes, he is — his dad was born in Mexico.

TFH June 24, 2014 at 12:53

Laguna Beach Fogey,..

er….. the person who prosecuted those Indians for insider trading, is also Indian. Preet Bharara : The US Attorney from the Southern District of New York. Also, what about the 90% of people busted in that same insider trading ring, who were white?

Again, just because you are primitive enough to think only in ‘my tribe, right or wrong’ terms, does not mean everyone else resides at your low level. Like I often say, when anyone makes a substantially off-base accusation, it is projection on the part of the accuser.

How do you explain Preet Bharara, the person who busted them?
How do you explain Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley, Republican governors of Deep South states?

Are they still ‘using the US taxpayer to bring their village over’?

You can’t, because your narrative is flimsy, cherry-picked, ignorant, and bitter. The fact remains, Asians pay far more in taxes than they receive in benefits. For starters, there are very few Asian single mothers (vs. 30-40% of white women who are single mothers at some point in their lives).

You are doing a better job of embarrassing yourself than anyone else is. You actually cherrypick a few Indians busted for insider trading, while ignoring that the person who busted them, Preet Bharara, is also Indian, AND that most of the people busted for that crime were white.

Too funny…..

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 12:59

US Attorney Preet Bharara (an Indian) busts several whites for insider trading.

Again……LULZ at the egg on Laguna Beach Froggy’s face.

Gee, I bet now Laguna Beach Froggy will say that the US Attorney is “attacking whites to leech off of them in order to subsidize his village” and that Insider Trading is no longer a crime when the prosecutor is Indian and the defendants are white, even though HE brought up the Insider trading ring when he foolishly thought it strengthened his point (instead, he demolished his own point with it).

The projection inherent to the “they are all loyal only to their tribe!!!” whining of his is truly a sight to behold.

Race-obsessed people tend to be the least impressive members of their own group. The taxpayer ripoff by domestic feminists is infinitely higher than the net ripoff (zero, given how much they themselves pay) of Asian immigrants.

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W.F. Price June 24, 2014 at 13:03

OK guys, let’s cool it with the ethnic pissing contests.

Ferlin Husky June 24, 2014 at 14:26

TFH said

“Ferlin Husky/Anonymous,

So you posted twice, using ‘Anonymous’ to not use the handle you already used and revealed. How smart. This does nothing to change my views that the most committed racists are the least impressive members of each race.

No, I don’t think what you said is true. Many successful entrepreneurs, after they get to know someone, are openly vocal about red-pill views, which is even more career-damaging than WN views. Red-pill ideas are vastly more scientifically sound as well, and far more original (vs. WN views, which are unoriginal, old, and usually scientifically unsound).

Ferlin Husky said
My two postings were a mistake caused by my computer freezing. “Anonymous” being the default. I will need to do a complete run of my anti-virus software.

I think in order to give the best response to TFH, the meaning of white nationalist must be defined. To most of the public, the meaning of white nationalist is what exactly the media and government want them to think it is, namely a white person who hates all people who are not like them and would either like to have them killed or enslaved. Now while there might be a few unbalanced individuals who feel this way, I think that they are either in mental wards or work for the government as agents provocateurs. The term white nationalist and white supremicist are always being mixed up intentionally by the media. White Supremacy is what you had 200 years ago when you had slaves, this way of thinking is dead in WN circles, everyone today sees the practice of slavery to be the cause of most of our racial problems in our present day. Most WN people are “White Separatists” they just want to live among their own kind in their own nation. They don’t want to mix with other races and are for closed borders as far as immigration is concerned. The politics of WN people can be anything from National Socialism to small “C” conservatism. I would say that the majority of WN people are small “C” conservatives. In other words, the typical WN today is basically what most white Americans were around 1960. I think that most WN people swallowed the red pill a long time ago and see the world in all it’s multicultural debauchery and want nothing of it. Their views on women are more along the lines of different roles but equal under the law. Women and men are complimentary opposites, working best together and not in opposition. I don’t think that it would be difficult for highly successful whites to have WN views but I stand firm in my assertion that airing even many mainstream conservative views on the topics of race, immigration and women’s issues in public would be career suicide in many industries especially Academe and the Media.

TFH said
Going by the race nationalist (of any race) commenters in the androsphere (as defined by those who care much more about race topics than misandry), there is a common theme of resignation, bitterness at being out-competed, and woman-pedestalization, as well as mutually-exclusive opinions in which they fail to see the massive contradictions.”

Ferlin Husky said
The themes of resignation and bitterness at being out-competed that you perceive, are more feelings that since the odds are staked against us why bother? Some people have these feelings, that’s only human, but to a young white guy today, who sees the country that his ancestors built, being sold at firesale prices to the highest bidders, and being outcompeted by immigrants that are not smarter, but cheaper, there are only a couple of alternatives, resign and join the crowd (and be lost) , or resist and fight and/or separate. There is safety in numbers.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 15:05

I’ll keep it brief.

Ferlin Husky,

I think in order to give the best response to TFH, the meaning of white nationalist must be defined.

Yes.

For the purposes of blog comments, I am defining it (as stated above) as someone who comes to anti-misandry blogs and still is far more concerned about race and ethnic issues (as observed by the proportion of their comments on one vs. the other), when clearly misandry is a much bigger threat.

In other words, the typical WN today is basically what most white Americans were around 1960.

I have no problem with this, as people in general (whites, blacks, women) were of better character then vs. now. But this is not what the WN commenters here seem to be. Among this set, everything seems to revolve around two fears :

i) Skilled immigrant has economically outcompeted the WN in question.
ii) Colored man is dating a white woman better than what the WN in question can get. The white woman should not be allowed this choice of free association.

These are concerns that the top 75% of white men would not be troubled by, and only weigh on the mind of the bottom 25% of men who are so incompetent as to be obstructed by these challenges from these same people who are supposedly inferior.

I am equally opposed to black and Asian race agitators too, for the same reason. I prefer that we recognize institutional and cultural misandry as the biggest threat.

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Charles Martel June 24, 2014 at 15:54

TFH
These are concerns that the top 75% of white men would not be troubled by, and only weigh on the mind of the bottom 25% of men who are so incompetent as to be obstructed by these challenges from these same people who are supposedly inferior.

I know you mean well but nobody likes having their face rubbed in a newcomer’s philosophy of their (i.e. your) racial superiority. Your statement above falls very definitely in the category of you telling me what I should think. And I don’t think that as a matter of fact. I do not buy at all the vision of a happy clappy multiculti world. What I see is more along the lines of rivers of blood when big government eventually fails.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 16:07

I do not buy at all the vision of a happy clappy multiculti world. What I see is more along the lines of rivers of blood when big government eventually fails.

Too true. The current multikult arrangement is not long for this world.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 16:16

Charles Martel,

I know you mean well but nobody likes having their face rubbed in a newcomer’s philosophy of their

I’m not a newcomer. I am born in America, and you mentioned that you are an immigrant.

What I see is more along the lines of rivers of blood when big government eventually fails.

I certainly oppose the importing of lower-skilled people. I have been consistent on that point for years. But higher-skilled does not have that problem, partly due to having more to lose, and partly due to not being dependent on the govt. for their living standard.

Take, for example, some of the expensive towns in Silicon Valley, like Saratoga, Cupertino, etc. Each of those towns is about 50% white and 50% Asian. There is no real disharmony in these communities, and all the teenagers seem to be in mixed groups.

The failure of big government will cause unrest among the welfare classes, yes, as they are getting something they don’t deserve. But it will simultaneously free up the knowledge classes from the excessive taxation and regulation that is inhibiting their output.

What I see is more along the lines of rivers of blood when big government eventually fails.

The end of feminism will be a bigger impact than that, and a welcome one, as feminism is far more dependent on big government than any class of men are (including black men).

Most problems are due to big government. Even assimilation of immigrants is largely a function of whether the government wants it to happen (like in the old days) or overtly obstructs it from happening (now).

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 16:24

“Higher-skilled” is the wrong term here, implying as it does that the imports are somehow more highly-skilled than the indigenous population. The reason “high-skilled” immigrants from Asia are imported is simply due to their lower cost.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 16:25

Asian immigrants are renowned for being tax cheats. India itself is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The US gains nothing by importing these corrupt people. Here is another well-known case involving a criminal immigrant from India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakireddy_Bali_Reddy

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Charles Martel June 24, 2014 at 16:39

TFH
I’m not a newcomer. I am born in America, and you mentioned that you are an immigrant.

True, but I wasn’t talking about me. I was talking about the Americans who are ethnic Northern Europeans to whom your comments appear to be addressed.

And perhaps it’s unkind of me to say this but for a self-professed American, you’re very concerned with the perspective of Asian immigrants.

The fact remains that in the USA we are all enjoying the fruits of the labors of primarily ethnic Northern Europeans, mainly German, English and Irish. The nation owes its character to these people and when they are eventually in a very small minority I think you’ll find the USA is no longer the USA. While some people might look forward to this I think the country will be a worse place to live for everybody.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 16:48

Laguna,

“Higher-skilled” is the wrong term here, implying as it does that the imports are somehow more highly-skilled than the indigenous population.

Wrong. What percentage of US residents have a graduate degree in STEM from a top-50 school? 1%? 2%? If the immigrant has this, then yes, he is much higher than average relative to the indiginous population. I mean, 40-50% of the engineering grad students at MIT and Stanford are from Asia….they are not competing for jobs on price.

The reason “high-skilled” immigrants from Asia are imported is simply due to their lower cost.

Nope. H1-B is only one category (that too which is only a 2-6 year status). Once the immigrant has a greencard, they obviously demand the same pay as others (surely you won’t claim they are paid less even after being US citizens for 10 years)…

And what of the skill levels much higher than the typical H1-B?

Harvard’s MBA class has many students straight from China and India. About 15% direct from Asia, and another 10% are Asians already in the US, for a total of 25%.

Are they paid less when they get a top-flight job at Goldman Sachs or Google? Even at that elite level? Is a slightly cheaper salary really a factor for Goldman Sachs or McKinsey when hiring an Asian Harvard MBA?

Are their 2nd generation Asian-American kids also ‘paid less’?

Was Satya Nadella chosen to be CEO of Microsoft because he could be paid 20% less than a white CEO? Is that the criteria via which Microsoft would choose a CEO?

And what about the large number of immigrant entrepreneurs, who start companies? What ‘invisible hand’ makes sure they are paid less? See Shahid Khan above. According to you, Shahid Khan’s net worth is only $4B, whereas if he were paid the domestic rate, his net worth would be 25% higher, or $5B. Gee, imagine that.

To claim that all Asian immigrants can be systematically paid less for many, many years is a level of intellectual malpractice identical to the ‘pay gap’ lie that feminists believe. You might as well believe that if women are only paid 77% of men, they are preferred over men for jobs due to price alone.

There is no overrated bogeyman bigger than the H1-B program. All of 50,000 Asians per year come to this country of 320M people, and yet are blamed for distorting the entire US workforce. Just 50,000 Asian people/year!!
___________________________________

Anyway, I make the effort to provide links not for you, but for some readers who might actually put facts first and foremost into the formation of their opinions.

But I highly recommend you watch that interview of Shahid Khan that I linked above. You might learn something about self-made fortunes by skilled immigrants.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 16:57

Charles Martel,

The fact remains that in the USA we are all enjoying the fruits of the labors of primarily ethnic Northern Europeans, mainly German, English and Irish.

Yes. About 90% of whom are not overly opposed to skilled immigration (whether of people like you or of Asians).

But it is true, I shouldn’t care that much. I am not an immigrant, and as WFPrice has noted upthread, I don’t look like other Indians. If I wanted to fully incorporate into white society, I could do so without difficulty.

I just care about factual accuracy. For the same reason I took the time to learn so much about the enslavement of Europeans by Barbary Pirates, even if I have no direct connection to that. It troubles me that this topic is unknown to most Americans (white or black), because the US narrative is that black slavery in the US was the only slavery to ever happen anywhere ever. That untruth and resultant ignorance bugs be just as much as untruths (and resultant ignorance like that of Laguna above) about skilled immigration bug me.

You should in fact be more interested in the political attitude towards skilled immigration, because it cannot be stopped for Asians alone. Stoppage of it would be stoppage of younger versions of you as well…

The biggest reason I care is that when an engineer is brought from China or India to the US, that is effectively a subsidy of $500K into the US economy, given that is how much it costs to educate a person from K-12 through an engineering degree. The US effectively benefits from educational expenses paid for by China or India, so this is a subsidy that should be greatly welcomed.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 17:05

Silicon Valley does not need Asian immigrants. White Americans will do just fine, thank you. Let us not forget that the Silicon Valley phenomenon was the product of the genius and hard work of White American men. Then, and now, Asian immigrants were not a major factor in its success.

Immigration (skilled and unskilled) depresses wages. The reason Silicon Valley imports Asian tech workers is due to the lower wages that can be paid to them, including the H1-B scam, which is why it’s accurate to state that, yes, Asians do indeed benefit from affirmative action and other government welfare programmes. They wouldn’t be able to compete on their own merits. Friends in Silicon Valley tell me that Indian and Chinese H1-B beneficiaries possess sub-par skill levels, with many of them having lied about their experience and credentials.

For every Shahid Khan there is a Raj Rajaratnam and Lakireddy Bali Reddy.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 17:10

….AND…

Skilled immigration also greatly damages feminism.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 17:20

Shutting down the immigrationist scam in the US would strengthen the hand of American men.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 17:31

Laguna,

Then, and now, Asian immigrants were not a major factor in its success.

Then you know nothing about Silicon Valley. About 60% of all ventures there are started by Asians. Tech startups don’t succeed on ‘affirmative action’.

The reason Silicon Valley imports Asian tech workers is due to the lower wages that can be paid to them, including the H1-B scam,

Already disproven by my examples above. You ignored that because it does not fit your narrative. Why are 40-50% of the grad students at Stanford and MIT (the top two Univs) Asian?

They wouldn’t be able to compete on their own merits.

Really? Then why are so many successful as entrepreneurs, across many industries?

On what basis can you make this sweeping claim, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? You are no different than a feminist who insists 50% of CEOs would be women if not for men overtly holding them back.

For every Shahid Khan there is a Raj Rajaratnam and Lakireddy Bali Reddy.

It is funny that you refer back to an Insider Trading ring that demolishes your own point. Preet Bharara (an Indian, not even born in the US) is the one who busted that open, and given that only a fraction of the people busted there were Indian (most were white), that example proves my points and destroys yours.

You certainly have not proven that white-collar crime by Indians happens any more often than amongst whites. This is what you are claiming, but are providing no evidence.

As far as the logical soundness and factual accuracy of your points, I am giving you a grade of D- to F. You read some crap on some place like VDare or Stormfront, spout it verbatim without even understanding what it means, and ignore reams of hard data from far more reputable sources that disprove it.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 17:53

And furthermore,

Immigration (skilled and unskilled) depresses wages.

Not skilled immigration. As I stated above, there are only 50,000 Asian H1-Bs per year, coming to this country of 320M people. To say such a tiny number depresses wages of the entire workforce, is just ignorance of basic arithmetic.

You are simply spouting off memorized sentences you read elsewhere, while ignoring the evidence I provided that is irrefutable. For someone so convinced of your own superiority, you are doing a terrible job of providing any facts, logic, or acknowledgement of evidence provided.

Blaming a tiny number of skilled immigrants for your inability to compete, despite also claiming that it is THEY who cannot compete on their own merits, is not the way you will rectify your trajectory into one of success.
___________________________________________

From this point on, the only opposing person I am still interested in discussing this with is Charles Martel, as he is the only one providing any intelligent sentences and fair opinions.

Jaego and Laguna Froggy have disqualified themselves from any degree of credibility, by ignoring the evidence I provide that disproves the claims made by their memorized sentences (lacking any basic intellectual curiosity of their own).

Ferlin seems reasonable, but he must see that Jaego and Laguna are not doing any favors to his desire to make WNs appear intelligent and fact-considering. With friends like them, Ferlin does not need enemies…..

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 17:57

Asian immigration benefits Asians already here, often through (for example) informal loan associations, so it’s no wonder you support it.

But for Americans, Asian immigration provides no benefit. Silicon Valley was created by the genius and hard work of White American men, thank you very much, and can survive without an influx of Asian tech workers.

As for Asians at university, Asians benefit from racial quotas at universities. And Asian entrepreneurs, when they’re not taking advantage of the aforementioned informal loan associations, are often the beneficiaries of special bank loan schemes for non-Whites (“minorities”) that are not available to Americans.

None of this is unknown to you.

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TFH June 24, 2014 at 18:26

I am responding to Laguna’s falsehoods with solid sources, only for other readers who may be reading. Laguna himself has no interest in facts, and thus will ignore all evidence presented, so it is not for him, but for any lurkers there may be.
______________________________________

As for Asians at university, Asians benefit from racial quotas at universities.

Completely false. This was in the news just 2 weeks ago. Asians do NOT get quotas in universities in the real world (Laguna’s imaginary world is another matter).

are often the beneficiaries of special bank loan schemes for non-Whites (“minorities”) that are not available to Americans.

Also false, and I have provided sources upthread.

and can survive without an influx of Asian tech workers.

Asian immigrants have founded 45-50% of the startups in Silicon Valley. Deny all you want, it is a fact for which I have provided a source (something you cannot do for any of your points).

Keep ignoring facts. Y0u are deep in the ‘La la la I can’t hear you’ mode. No better than a feminist in the way you ignore presented evidence in favor of your memorized lines.

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Laguna Beach Fogey June 24, 2014 at 18:45

TFH, I think we all understand that Asian immigration benefits you and the Asian community. It’s no wonder that you defend it and want more of it. We get it. Asian immigration does not benefit Americans, which is what is being discussed here.

Again, I must point out that Asian start-up entrepreneurs are the privileged beneficiaries of informal loan associations, naked ethnic nepotism, and special bank loan schemes, none of which are enjoyed by Americans.

Asian immigration is good for Asians, but bad for Americans.

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anon June 24, 2014 at 23:24

Just to throw this in:

http://news.yahoo.com/did-asian-kids-york-times-bill-blasio-hate-135019110.html

Quote “Meanwhile, the liberal intellectual mentions, several groups including the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund have lodged a federal civil rights complaint seeking to force New York’s elite public schools to admit fewer Asians.”

For what its worth…

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TFH June 25, 2014 at 09:41

anon,

Of course. It is known that Asians (in the US) do not get affirmative action in university admissions. This has been true for a long time. This means they have succeeded on their merits.

Losers who insist otherwise have never learned that in any debate, when evidence is provided that their blind beliefs are factually incorrect, that they have to take the new facts into account and change their positions.

That is what thinking people do. Non-thinkers, such as a couple of people above, have no coping mechanism other than ‘La la la I can’t hear you’.

No wonder they are getting outcompeted so comprehensively.

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Ray Manta June 26, 2014 at 00:11

TFH wr0te:
Not skilled immigration. As I stated above, there are only 50,000 Asian H1-Bs per year, coming to this country of 320M people. To say such a tiny number depresses wages of the entire workforce, is just ignorance of basic arithmetic.

The numbers I’ve seen put the percentage of H1-B holders in the software industry between 20-25% of the total software development workforce. I’m talking about people present in the US, not the annual influx of new people.

Compsci professor Norman Matloff definitely believes that the program has undercut the American worker. He cites the ‘indentured servitude’ aspect of the H1-B visa as the most important factor for employers since someone who has the visa has only a very short window of time to find another job if he quits or is laid off.
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html.

He doesn’t say anything on the effect of the presence of women in the workforce or feminism as a factor as to why employers are looking abroad for workers, although obviously it’s important.

My own position on this issue is that the guest worker program is a force to be reckoned with in terms of job prospects. But it is possible for an American worker to counteract it by being good (as in damned good) and specializing in a niche where there isn’t too much competition. It’s important to keep in mind that the productivity spread in software development is the most extreme in any industry – the productivity difference between an excellent and an average individual can be tenfold.

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Ray Manta June 26, 2014 at 00:18

TFH wrote:
Nope. H1-B is only one category (that too which is only a 2-6 year status).

I’m in favor of scrapping the program completely. If employers want to hire the best and brightest, they can sponsor them for a green card. Then they would have the same advantages in mobility and the ability to seek higher pay as a native worker.

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The Brass Cat June 26, 2014 at 11:54

The Leftist propaganda in the media has done a thorough job of misaligning away from reality the minds of many Asians in America. Just watch any of these crime dramas like NCIS, Criminal Minds, etc. and be aware of the subtle and not-so-subtle propaganda in the subtext. “White men are psychos, have a lot of weapons, and will lock you in the basement and rape you to death,” says every major crime drama today.

Anecdote…

So the Bride-To-Be (who is Asian) and I were looking at a venue in the county. Was scenic, bucolic even. But one of her major misgivings was that her mother would be scared to travel out there. It was about 10 miles from a major highway. Apparently her mother only feels safe in a densely-populated urban environment. So I imagine it’s like she lives in a large bubble and can travel to other large bubbles as long as she doesn’t have to stop along the way. A venue out in the countryside is scary for her much like MLK Blvd at night is for me (or any urban area, really). It’s as if she thinks the movie “Deliverance” is true and will always happen.

It is fascinating that she is more at ease in an urban area (where most of the crime happens in reality) than in a largely unpopulated country area. I reminded Bride-to-Be that I’m from a small town that would definitely scare her mother, yet somehow I’m not an inbred hillbilly.

But that’s just one anecdote.

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TFH June 26, 2014 at 13:07

Ray Manta,

I’m in favor of scrapping the program completely. If employers want to hire the best and brightest, they can sponsor them for a green card. Then they would have the same advantages in mobility and the ability to seek higher pay as a native worker.

Yes. Absolutely. The H1-B program is a ‘Frankenstein’ piece that does not interlock with other pieces of the immigration policy. The employer has too much power over the H1-B, as long as the H1-B employee is under that status.

A holistic revamp would be much better, in order to make US immigration policy more similar to what Canada and Australia have (i.e. much better).

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TFH June 26, 2014 at 14:26

The Brass Cat,

The Leftist propaganda in the media has done a thorough job of misaligning away from reality the minds of many Asians in America.

Yes. I’ll restate what I said upthread that this was not the case even as recently as 2005, but the media has successfully scared them into voting Democrat, even though they are overtly harmed by Democrats in many ways (including in the taxes paid vs. received metric). Even in the 90s, most Asians voted Republican…

I’ve gone to places like Barstow, CA, Vernal UT, and Plano, TX, with no problem at all.

There is a country-western club in the Bay Area (in Fremont) that has a lot of cowboy-hat-wearing whites from the Central Valley (70%), but also a lot of the local Asian-Americans (30%). They play country music and have a lot of swing dancing. Apparently, Asian-Americans are not yet afraid to go there (nor should they be).

The occasional racist like a couple of people on this thread have zero balls to do anything in real life, which everyone knows :) .

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W.F. Price June 26, 2014 at 14:52

A holistic revamp would be much better, in order to make US immigration policy more similar to what Canada and Australia have (i.e. much better).

-TFH

Another positive change would be eliminating the option of sponsoring anyone besides one’s nuclear family (wife and kids) for any non-work-related visas. If we merely enforced our laws at the border and made a few sensible changes there would be far fewer overall immigrants but many more productive ones. I’d say sending back all 12 million+ illegals and trading them for a few million middle to high earners would be a great deal.

TFH June 26, 2014 at 15:08

WFPrice,

Another positive change would be eliminating the option of sponsoring anyone besides one’s nuclear family (wife and kids) for any non-work-related visas.

Yes. Family-reunification is a scam. Again, Canada and Australia have much better immigration policies than the US, that are skill-based. Remember that importing an engineer or doctor educated at the expense of China/India/Russia effectively is a subsidy of $500K into the US, as it costs that much to produce such a person from K-12-College here…

I am even in favor of a regional visa that would curb the concentration of immigrants into just NYC and Coastal CA, and lead to more diffusion into the interior so no one county is over 15% immigrants. That would be better for assimilation (which, of course, the government does not want).

I’d say sending back all 12 million+ illegals and trading them for a few million middle to high earners would be a great deal.

Like Canada. Canada is already 16% Asian, yet does not have significant ethnic tension, or disproportionate use of welfare by Asians. Most Asians going to Canada would have rather come to the US as their first choice. Same for Australia (also 15% Asian now).

What is strange is that the illegals are net tax consumers, vs. the skilled immigrants are net payers (perhaps more so than any other group), yet the govt. thinks the welfare-vote-block is more lucrative than the importation of higher-income taxpayers.

Keep in mind the official data (see Page 4 for country stats) :
http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_lpr_fr_2013.pdf

Excluding Mexicans (among which illegals are not even counted here), immigration to the US is only 900,000/year (0.28% of the native population), and never more than 80,000/yr from any one country. Those numbers are very, very small in proportion to the US population.

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Charles Martel June 27, 2014 at 11:48

TFH
The occasional racist like a couple of people on this thread have zero balls to do anything in real life, which everyone knows.

The occasional sexist like a couple of people on this thread have zero balls to do anything in real life, which everyone knows.

See how that works? For a smart guy you’re 100% tone deaf on this issue.

This linked cartoon perfectly captures my reaction to everything you’ve written on this thread. Just mentally substitute Asian for black. And you’re the black kid, btw.

To tell you the truth, as I think about it, you’ve pretty much come out of the closet as an anti-white racist on this thread.

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TFH June 27, 2014 at 12:24

Charles Martel,

To tell you the truth, as I think about it, you’ve pretty much come out of the closet as an anti-white racist on this thread.

I have defended Southern whites on this thread in at least three different comments. I even pointed this out to you, but you went out of your way to ignore that because it conflicts with your agenda.

Advocating for skilled immigrants, mainly due to the high financial influx they represent to the US economy, is not ‘racist’.

I thought you were better than that. But I was wrong.

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TFH June 27, 2014 at 13:28

Anyway, I would like to summarize my points to get some closure on this thread, because the selective misrepresentation of my position by a motley crew of projection-laden mediocrities is rather high.

My positions :

1) Whites in the Deep South (the original topic of this thread) are not racist towards Asians. Louisiana and S. Carolina elected Indian-American governors on the Republican ticket, meaning most whites voted for them (whites being the only Southerners who vote R). This is the biggest litmus test of all.

2a) I myself have never had a bad experience with American whites, ever, in my life. Not as schoolmates in elementary school (I grew up in a place that was 95% white), as colleagues, as neighbors, or with white women as lovers. Never any racism, ever, in real life. You can quote me on this at any future point. This applies to real life, not anonymous online comments that over-represent a very small minority.
2b) I also unhesitantly went to small towns that fit a certain stereotype (Barstow, CA, Vernal, UT, Plano, TX), without any problem. I was also at a highway-stop in Nebraska in October 2011 (a month after 9/11), with no problem.

3) However, non-US whites, will occasionally behave differently than US whites as they still don’t quite understand what it means to be an American (a unique way of thinking, which other countries don’t have). I notice that both Laguna Fogey and Charles Martel are immigrant whites.

4) As WF Price has mentioned here and elsewhere, I don’t look like other Indians, and could ensconse into white society when I choose to (he and I have met in person). I don’t technically *have* to care what others think about Indians, and there are many Indians I also don’t like (leftists, manginas, etc.).

5) I am a strong advocate for an increase in skilled immigration (and decrease in unskilled, illegal immigration. The reasons for this are economic, as much data exists that highly skilled immigrants are a positive multiplier to the US economy. The fact that it takes $500K to educate an higher-end engineer or doctor in the US makes it lucrative to bring one in that was educated at the expense of Russia, China, India, SKorea, Iran, Colombia, etc.

My interest in higher skilled immigration is financial. Thus, I favor ALL skilled immgrants, not just Indians, but even groups that may hate Indians or look down on them.

Seal the borders, import the brains. That has been my consistent position for years, and is what America’s values represent.

6) A discussion of skilled immigration should not be about race, but some people just cannot see that it is possible to be in favor of skilled immigration without it being an ethnic issue. They cannot see that someone might favor this for reasons outside of race, even though most of those who favor skilled immigration do.

Charles Martel, in particular, is peculiar. A skilled immigrant (him) is heavily dependent on Americans (me) wanting skilled immigration to be easier, lest a younger version of himself be denied entry. He apparently wants even skilled immigration to be race-filtered, which is impossible and will never occur in America. See : Silicon Valley, Wall Street, etc.

7) Asians do NOT get affirmative action, which is very easy to verify. Their success is due to their own merit, of which there are countless examples across many industries and entrepreneurial ventures. To deny a person’s legitimate success in America, is the most un-American of things. No wonder most of the people doing this are foreigners.

8) Race nationalism (of any race) is feminism’s best friend. Any ideology so dependent on fertility contests inherently places a woman’s well-being higher than a man’s.
__________________________

That is all. If some morons want to attribute positions to me that I have not uttered, that is merely a manifestation of their own problems..

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Charles Martel June 28, 2014 at 08:11

TFH
I thought you were better than that. But I was wrong.

Yeah, that was a bit strong. My apologies.

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TFH June 28, 2014 at 12:51

Charles Martel,

Yeah, that was a bit strong. My apologies.

No worries.

My 8-point comment at 13:28 on 6/27 are my positions.

For those who find those tolerable, great.
For those who have a problem with those, that is their problem, not mine, for those are pretty mainstream views among Americans.

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