Lena Dunham’s Nudity as Handicap Principle

by W.F. Price on January 23, 2014

A couple weeks ago, I came across an interview questioning Lena Dunham’s decision to take her clothes off in Girls despite the fact that she has an odd, unattractive figure. Lena Dunham is not merely “average,” but rather sub-average in that department. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but most people would tend to compensate for a deficiency by trying to make up for it in other ways. Dunham, however, does the opposite, taking every opportunity to display herself nude.

From a rational perspective, we might think this is counterproductive behavior. She will alienate viewers, inspire disgust and generally turn people off. However, something else has happened. Dunham has gained quite a following, and is held up as a hero by the socially dominant in-crowd of entertainers.

When Tim Molloy, a reporter from The Wrap, asked her what the point of the nudity was, he immediately provoked a hostile reaction from Dunham and her friends:

At yesterday’s Television Critics Association winter press tour, a panel for HBO’s Girls became a tense battleground when The Wrap’s Tim Molloy kicked off the event by asking creator Lena Dunham why so many of the show’s characters were naked all the time.

“I don’t get the purpose of all of the nudity on the show, by you particularly, and I feel like I’m walking into a trap where you go, ‘Nobody complains about the nudity on Game of Thrones,’ but I get why they are doing it,” Molloy said. “They are doing it to be salacious and, you know, titillate people. And your character is often naked just at random times for no reason.”

The reaction from the panelists — which included Dunham and the three other main Girls cast members and executive producers Jenni Konner and Judd Apatow — was swift.

[...]

Apatow verbally pounced on Molloy, as seen from the following transcript snippet:

JUDD APATOW: Do you have a girlfriend?

TIM MOLLOY: Yeah.

JA: Does she like you?

TM: Sure.

JA: OK. Let’s see how she likes you when you quote that with your question, and just write the whole question as you stated it.

TM: Well, ask tell me —

JA: Then tell me how it goes tonight.

TM: Tell me why it’s wrong.

JENNI KONNER: Maybe she’s a misogynist.

JA: Let’s move on to the next question.

Later, Konner went back to the earlier incident while answering a question about being creatively flexible with the show.
JK: I literally was spacing out because I’m in such a rage spiral about that guy that I literally could not hear. I’m so sorry. I really don’t mean to disrespect you. I just was looking at him and going into this rage, this idea that you would talk to a woman like that and accuse a woman of showing her body too much. The idea, it just makes me sort of sick, and so I apologize to everyone. I’m going to try to focus now, but if I space out, it will be because of that guy. And I’m really interested in what publication you are from.

[...]

Molloy then wrote a piece for The Wrap to explain his position, noting that following the panel, executive producer Judd Apatow told him that his line of questioning was “sexist, offensive, and misogynistic.”

The hapless reporter was subjected to a smackdown live on TV, all for daring to ask a fairly mild question about one of the defining aspects of Girls.

The response to his question was illustrative. The idea that he could dare to ask Lena Dunham “why?” was met with a torrent of abuse. Because Lena Dunham is socially dominant. In this context, we see the reason for her nudity in the show. Because she can afford it.

Could some wannabe starlet from Texas pull it off? Not a chance. Judd Apatow would stand by with a smirk as she was eviscerated for baring it all. So would Jenni Konner. Some little nobody from the hinterlands would not have the social cred to shed her clothes in public. Lena Dunham’s nudity doesn’t have anything to do with “ordinary women,” but rather extraordinary people and what they can get away with. Lena Dunham is saying “look, I can take off my clothes and expose my unattractive body, and people will applaud, damnit!” It’s a powerful demonstration of social superiority, and a clear example of the handicap principle:

The handicap principle is a hypothesis originally proposed in 1975 by biologist Amotz Zahavi to explain how evolution may lead to “honest” or reliable signaling between animals which have an obvious motivation to bluff or deceive each other.[1][2][3] The handicap principle suggests that reliable signals must be costly to the signaler, costing the signaler something that could not be afforded by an individual with less of a particular trait. For example, in the case of sexual selection, the theory suggests that animals of greater biological fitness signal this status through handicapping behaviour or morphology that effectively lowers this quality. The central idea is that sexually selected traits function like conspicuous consumption, signalling the ability to afford to squander a resource simply by squandering it. Receivers know that the signal indicates quality because inferior quality signallers cannot afford to produce such wastefully extravagant signals…

By showing that she can afford to be ugly and yet still be on TV, Lena Dunham is signaling greater fitness than other women. It’s a bit counterintuitive, but it makes sense if you think of what might happen if a lower-status actress from a lower-status part of the US tried to do the same. Her career would be over right at that moment, and nobody would bat an eyelash.

I’ve noticed more examples of the handicap principle at work in popular culture and the media as the class gap widens in the US. Scott Stossel, for example, recently wrote an article for The Atlantic in which he discusses his struggles with anxiety. You might think the article was an effort to bring a sometimes debilitating condition to light so as to offer some help to people afflicted by it, but instead it was a navel gazing expose of Stossel’s drug and alcohol abuse, incidents in which he shits himself and retches for hours and family dysfunction. However, throughout the essay, he drops allusions to his status, his high-class background and his professional success. We learn that despite his considerable handicaps, Stossel is still far better than most of us. He might as well be saying: “Look at me! I’m a pill-popping, scotch guzzling neurotic who has a better job and knows fancier people than you ever will.”

The sad thing about this is that it actually does work. Lena Dunham and Scott Stossel are admired by people. The assumption is that they are admired because they are ordinary people, but this is not true. They are admired because they are extraordinary outliers — people who can get away with things that would put most of us in a mental institution or on the street.

{ 66 comments… read them below or add one }

Mike January 23, 2014 at 10:56

Good article. Definitely provided a point of view I wouldn’t have considered.

My analysis is much simpler.

The show is complete garbage, and pretty much everyone I know (male and female) agrees. No matter how many Hollywood awards or critic raves it gets it still sucks.

I think this was a simple marketing ploy to try and draw women viewers to the show.

Basically, lose your shit on some male reporter and portray it under the guise of misogyny.

This rant on their behalf drummed up more press for the show than the show does for itself, and everyone loves an argument.

Next thing you know the women are flocking to YouTube to watch the exchange and then after that tuning in to watch the show.

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Turbo the Drycleaner January 23, 2014 at 11:00

Lena Dunham may be admired, but only by the wrong kinds of people like the fat acceptance crowd. Outside of its little spider web, I doubt any of its ‘actresses’ hold any kind of influence. I’m not even entirely sure who Lena Dunham is but I would guess she is the lead ‘actress’ of this TV show. I’ve never seen it but it sounds to me a lot like a cheap knock-off of sex and the city. Isn’t the whole point of the show to ‘sell the dream’ to unattractive twenty-somethings?

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Van Zan January 23, 2014 at 11:25

The fact that nobody on the panel could articulate the reasoning for the nudity is indicative of the reactionary nature of these types of people. If you can’t calmly and rationally give an answer to a question, you clearly have no answer.

If Dunham’s nudity is there to serve some purpose, explain what the purpose is, and how it adds the creative enterprise. If it’s not, and simply a vehicle of narcissism, and a chubby middle finger to men’s natural disgust at her doughy form then at least have the intellectual honesty to say it.

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Aaron January 23, 2014 at 11:26

“I literally was spacing out because I’m in such a rage spiral about that guy that I literally could not hear”
— Really? Demonstrates the point that most feminists are fat, butt-ugly and emotionally immature, and oh yeah thin skinned too.

“JENNI KONNER: Maybe she’s a misogynist.”
— Another deep, insightful, and uniquely feminist comment.

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geographybeefinalisthimself January 23, 2014 at 11:43

“— Really? Demonstrates the point that most feminists are fat, butt-ugly and emotionally immature, and oh yeah thin skinned too.”

Aaron, you could amputate three of my fingers (I still have all ten) and I would still have more fingers left than the total number of thick-skinned feminists.

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a_peraspera January 23, 2014 at 11:43

“I’m going to try to focus now, but if I space out, it will be because of that guy. And I’m really interested in what publication you are from.”

Plus this last sentence is a flagrant threat to go talk to the guy’s editor and get him fired. The guy will be lucky if he has a job in another week.

Apatow makes me sick too. That, “Do you have a girlfriend” schtick. It’s just like a feminist to try to wriggle out of an uncomfortable question by implying that the questioner is “just mad cuz he can’t get laid.”

About the only shaming tropes they missed were “U must live in ur mom’s basement!” and “Ur penis is small so ur argument iz invalid!”

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Opus January 23, 2014 at 11:46

I am reminded of that Irish singer – the one who is three ha’pence short of a shilling – who when she was genuinely desirable (a quarter-century back) shaved her head: what I think she was doing, was saying ‘even with a shaven head I am h0tter than all those other perfectly coiffured women’.

Every one remembers that – pity she is now so fat and ugly – I would not even what to be in the same bar as her. Now, truly, nothing does compare to her.

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Kyo January 23, 2014 at 11:57

Apatow makes me sick too. That, “Do you have a girlfriend” schtick. It’s just like a feminist to try to wriggle out of an uncomfortable question by implying that the questioner is “just mad cuz he can’t get laid.”

I saw this from another angle. I thought that Apatow was asking the question because he was so confident in his side’s power that he thought that the man’s girlfriend would take the side of Team Feminism over her own partner. The woman’s follow-up was a pre-emptive strike against Mr. Molloy’s girlfriend, just in case she doesn’t share their zeal for the cause. Discredit her before any speculation can be made about what her reaction might be.

I wish I could have been in Mr. Molloy’s shoes. My answer would have been, “Yes, she loves me, and she would completely agree with me about how ugly this nudity is. And even if she disagreed, she’d disagree rationally and with class, unlike your good selves.”

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Opus January 23, 2014 at 12:07

I wonder whether Americans are familiar with Little Britain and in particular Bubbles. For those who aren’t: Bubbles must be (all prosthetics) about three hundred pounds and middle aged, but she thinks she is not merely gorgeous and irresistible to all men but as a result thereof keeps losing her clothes – in public. The British are of course too polite even as they shy away from her. The joke is of course that she cannot see her own hideousness.

It appears that Americans are also too polite – to Miss Dunham.

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P. Gibson January 23, 2014 at 12:18

there will always be one volunteer pornographer. And they (women) think men invented the porn / sleaze industry; lulz.

Men: they just happened to be there with an easel, a camera, to capture the image of the harlets in heat.

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meistergedanken January 23, 2014 at 12:42

It would be kind of funny if she got knocked up and then became even fatter and more disgusting, especially if she was nude post-pregnancy.

But she would probably just get an abortion anyway, so she wouldn’t miss any of her 15 minutes of fame…

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Omega Man January 23, 2014 at 12:48

Lena Dunham is a “Sexy Horse” if I ever saw one.

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kios January 23, 2014 at 13:17

L.D represents everything i hate about women in the Anglosphere. She is fat, entitled and completely overestimates her value. The joke is that her boyfriend is thin and at the very least 2 SMV points above her, and that’s being generous.

‘Tiny Furniture’ was a navel gazing piece of garbage.

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rebar January 23, 2014 at 14:11

The reaction is a handy reminder that women today, feminist or otherwise, are very likely to take a stand against any male that MAY HAVE insulted another female and will willingly do so at any cost, even that of a solid relationship.

Shit though, this should be no surprise, non-feminist females have been fucking over their own sons for the past 50 years whenever they cast vote for the “BIG SAFETY NET”.

Simple concept yet hard to argue against and remain rational .

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Anonymous Reader January 23, 2014 at 14:59

Your opinion of Lena Doughgirl demonstrating her social dominance is right on the money. In a few years she’ll hit the Wall, and likely will balloon up even more while wailing about the deficiency of Good Men. I’ll save some popcorn for that.

IMO the entire overreaction to a reasonable, justifiable, reporter’s question was just a giant shit test. If the reporter had stood his ground and basically scoffed at them, I wonder whose head would have imploded first. Really, what would they do if a man challenged their horse droppings with scornful, laughing, skepticism – shriek louder? Go ahead, now what?

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dhanu January 23, 2014 at 15:27

In order not to appear irrational, feminists have to look angry and be permanently on the offensive, so that nobody would question their illogical views. They’re not really angry, they have to look like being angry. Otherwise they’d look like stupid comedians.

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Harcomas January 23, 2014 at 16:26

The show is complete garbage, and pretty much everyone I know (male and female) agrees. No matter how many Hollywood awards or critic raves it gets it still sucks.

The show’s producers are not stupid. They know their product is bad. But they are filled with self-pride, and contempt for their neighbors. So they don’t care if most people hate their show. Because they have the devil on their side, who is assuring them of power, fame, and wealth in return for their services.

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Anonymous Reader January 23, 2014 at 16:35

If SNL still had any writers who understood comedy and had guts, they could do a short animated version of “Girls” using Mr. and Mrs. Potatohead. Then when the Lena character dropped trou, the structure of the nude body would be an all-but-perfect replica of the original, potato-like entity.

But, alas, no. Maybe someone on YouTube?

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TFH January 23, 2014 at 16:35

Last I checked, actresses who are hired for the high-paying jobs of starring in blockbusters, are still attractive. The financial viability of films depend on it, and ‘feminism’ has been unable to change this.

Even Anne Hathaway and Scarlett Johanson had to slim down due to roles that involved skin-tight outfits in recent high-budget superhero flicks. The already-attractive woman still had to slim down further.

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John Savage January 23, 2014 at 17:09

meh. “popular culture” … like “mainstream journalism”… is an oxymoron.

how about instead of deconstructing this crap, we focus instead on the tasks ahead of us in rebuilding a strong, virile, dynamic culture? and let this humanure decompose on its own?

I don’t even know what a television is any more…

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Launchpadd McQuack January 23, 2014 at 17:49

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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John South January 23, 2014 at 18:01

We need a show with an odd, fat little guy with a small penis naked all the time for no apparent reason.

I think it would help them understand what they look like to us.

Ladies,

That fat guy in the speedo on the beach you find so repellent that you wouldn’t date in a million years?

That is YOU.

We need a fat men are hot campaign.

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Launchpadd McQuack January 23, 2014 at 18:02

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W.F. Price January 23, 2014 at 18:18

Mr. Price, you may find Lena Dunham unattractive, but I don’t. You know who I find unattractive? Pretty much all of those stick-figure, insect like “supermodels” you see paraded around. The ones held up as some kind of female beauty standard. Gisele Bundchen? No thanks. Tyra Banks? No thanks. Kate Moss? No thanks. Alessandra Ambrosio? No thanks for her man face and man chin.

-LM

Well… Good for you.

I have no problem with good-sized, well-built women like Lucy Lawless and Lindsey Vonn, and actually prefer them to Kate Moss types, but Lena Dunham is flabby, misshapen and awkward. To me, she’s a waddling troll. Maybe that’s “just my opinion.” Somehow, though, I think a whole lot of guys share it.

Thos. January 23, 2014 at 18:23
Jaego January 23, 2014 at 20:00

Yes hidden cameras have caught workers displaying themselves in retirement homes and mental institutions – for the same reason basically though obviously on a lower level of class.

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TFH January 23, 2014 at 20:40

Launchpadd is a troll..

He said :

Tyra Banks? No thanks.

Tyra Banks is not ‘thin’, as per your exaggerated attempt to describe what superm0dels look like. Neither is Beyonce. Neither is Sofia Vergara. There are plenty of good-looking women who are curvy, but that is very different from a fat umber hulk like Lena Dunham…

I notice you could not name a single famous actress who you find attractive. Fine, choose a ‘curvy’ one. But the fact that you didn’t name ONE means you are just a Lena Dunham apologist…

You have an actual fat fetish. That is abnormal…..

I challenge you to name a famous woman you find attractive, other than Lena Dunham. That will tell us all we need to know about a pervert like you.

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zimmy January 23, 2014 at 20:56

Bring back Donna Reed.

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Anonymous Reader January 23, 2014 at 20:56

McQuack
I think the Spearhead is making a big deal over nothing. Would you guys get up in arms over a painting feature a nude woman on display in an art gallery? What’s the difference. If you don’t like it, then change the damn channel and quit whining.

Whoosh, the point flies over your head. It’s not Ms. Potato flashing her fat rolls that is obnoxious. It’s the way that questioning the ObNudity on “Girls” was reframed into “You, reporter, must be mentally ill” in a matter of seconds. The way the dominant feminist narrative, even when it’s an empress with no clothes, must be supported at all costs.

That’s what it’s about.

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Dan the man January 23, 2014 at 21:23

@RuanchPadded I like thinner women more myself, but a larger woman can be attractive too. Ugly comes in all sizes, and in thin, and skanky. Only dumbass liberals call ugly artistic, and beautiful. Its part of the whole “love me for what I am on the inside” idea that is going around. Hence the question ” why the nudity”. Men are never afraid to say what they like. I have my doubts as to whether you are man. Even gay men like beautiful women, some of them wish they were.

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All Heart January 23, 2014 at 21:39

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Launchpadd McQuack January 23, 2014 at 22:40

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Launchpadd McQuack January 23, 2014 at 22:47

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chinesefootsoldier January 23, 2014 at 23:30

Her show has long been lambasted by social justice extremists for being “racist” and “noninclusive”, so it’s possible that Lena, knowing she will be judged, staged this little stunt in order to place herself in the position of victim so she can regain some street cred with the feminist crowd.

Assuming she can think that many steps, of course.

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Dire Badger January 24, 2014 at 00:23

Seriously, what is with this ‘all heart’ feminist troll leaving stupid ass comments like she owns the place?

@All heart-

“As a woman who has struggled with my body image, who has had periods in my life where I was skinny and periods where I was chubby, it’s really nice to see a normal woman’s body on screen.”:
You are a fatass that wouldn’t understand nutrition if it bit you on the ass. If you are too stupid to understand healthy diet, active lifestyle, and body awareness, no one has the slightest empathy for your ‘plight’.

Celebrities are paid enormous amounts of money to do two things and two things only: entertain us, and look good doing it. If they fail at either of those things, they are literally a complete waste of our time… It is not ‘refreshing’ to see ordinary bodies on the screen and realize how much money has been wasted on those nobodies.

“The kind of body that I can relate to more because I’m a real person, like Dunham, not a fantasy.”
Who gives a fuck if you can ‘relate’ to them? Let me give you a hint… the only thing worth ‘relating’ to is achievement. If you cannot achieve anything, then perhaps your problem is attempting to ‘relate’ to fatass losers on TV instead of real success stories.

” I know that the better looking body I have, the more likely men will like me. But it’s not a perfect world and I am pretty much always aware that my body isn’t perfect.”
Yes, but if you maintain a healthy, active lifestyle, you CAN achieve the best body you can achieve. Trust me, men approve of a slightly imperfect woman who does the best she can with what she has FAR more than an artificial ’10′. The problem is, You have already ‘given up’ by trying to forgive an imperfect body . You have already pointed out that you have absolutely NO self control (Your weight fluctuates constantly) and thus, you are CHOOSING not to do all you can with what you have… in other words, you expect a man to love you IN SPITE of the fact that you don’t even give enough of a shit about yourself to keep yourself at peak health. Right. Try again.

” But even in a none-perfect world, even with my none-perfect body, I still want love and sex. It’s nice to know that us regular women, the ones who weren’t born with perfect bodies, can still have men in our lives that love us and want to make love to us. ”
It’s nice to know that there are some beta losers that are so insecure and desperate for sex that they will even fuck a bloated whale that thinks a pound of granola mixed with a gallon of strawberry yogurt is ‘health food’.

“While Dunham isn’t Megan Fox (honestly, even Megan Fox isn’t Megan Fox – hello plastic surgery), I hardly think she is subpar either. ”
She’s not only not megan fox, she’s not even Jamie Fox. She is EXTREMELY subpar. Unless you are a guy, you don’t understand how much of a turnoff it is to see a self-righteous cunt displaying the fruits of her own laziness and lack of responsibility.

“I get why she isn’t your cup of tea. I get not liking the show Girls. I don’t get putting her down for simply not being your cup of tea.”
Aggressive, self-righteous cunt, shoving her twisted snatch in our face because we accidentally turn on HBO. Unhealthy. She puts her malformed naked ass on national television, then she has EVERY right to expect to be put down… That’s why she makes so much money. the right for an actor to ‘privacy’ is nothing more than a grotesque joke… If she didn’t want to be put down, she wouldn’t be wiggling her hourglass ass all over the screen.

“And I don’t get complaining about her nudity when nudity has dominated our culture, especially female nudity, way before Dunham came along.”
That’s because you are an asshole. Ever hear the expression “Spandex is a privilege, not a right’? You expect that by phrasing a disagreement as ‘I don’t get it’ that someone will leap to explain in a calm logical fashion that you can demolish with emotional arguments. Sorry sister, not gonna happen.

You understand perfectly well why men can complain about a nasty horrid ass being paraded around the screen when they seem to have no trouble with a perfect figure… your protestation of ‘I don’t get it’ is nothing more than a thin attempt to act as if the very natural appreciation for healthy, nubile bodies and disdain for unhealthy ancient ones is somehow unnatural or incomprehensible… except, of course, that it makes perfect sense.

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Dire Badger January 24, 2014 at 00:37

in short, unhealthy is unattractive. get the fuck over it. If you ‘don’t get it’ that’s simply because you have a vested interest in trying to push the narrative that you are a victim that cannot control your own body’s health. It’s an unattractive lie, and I pity any poor male that gets involved with such a liar.

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greyghost January 24, 2014 at 03:40

Very interesting observation

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Belligerent January 24, 2014 at 03:41

@Launchpadd McQuack

Debra Winger and Lena Headey are both stick thin. Neither could be called remotely ‘thick’ or curvy.

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Opus January 24, 2014 at 03:46

So I had to have a look – after Launchpadd’s defence – and frankly, beyond a desire to see all women naked, it was frankly not a good idea for her to strip off – if for no other reason than I get to see her unsightly Tats.

Over here, there used to be a song ‘Don’t put your daughter on the stage Mrs Worthington’ – actresses had a reputation for promiscuous behaviour both on and off stage. It well applies to Dunham who is effectively asking you to believe she is Hot when she isn’t and humiliates herself proving it. Asking you to believe that there is no essential difference between her body and some top actress or Porn star. This is merely a form of equalism, where as always with equalism we have to treat what is desirable as ordinary and what is less than desirable as hot. No one is really fooled however unless you are one of those who leans towards being a Chubby-chaser.

I am sorry that Miss Dunham was not born with a fit bod, but life is unfair and if there is to beautiful there must also be ugly much as for there to be mountains there must be valleys – you really cannot do much if you are born with wide (child-bearing) hips. In her case I don’t really think it is handicapping so much as a challenge to you pretend that she is a centrefold babe, and not become unmannered by saying what you really think. It is a challenge.

Still, I am sure she can rest assured that she is wank material for many guys. Hot chicks can suck on that unpalatable fact and people like Paris Hilton thus need to up their game to stay ahead of the curve.

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Aaron January 24, 2014 at 04:37

Allheart wrote:

“The kind of body that I can relate to more because I’m a real person, like Dunham, not a fantasy”
“it’s really nice to see a normal woman’s body on screen”

— Real person? Normal woman’s body? No, the many fat and unhealthy American women are not real and not normal. Many (not all) American women look like they do because of the way they choose to eat and keep (in)active. Many men focus on the exteriors of a woman because in modern society women have chosen to disregard a woman’s traditional interiors (character, personality, values) and because many men in modern society do not know how now to otherwise relate to women. Womyn have chosen to embrace government policies that favor them while openly discriminating against their men, the feminist cult of self-worship, and the sexual revolution. Men are reacting or responding to the changes in the currents of society.

You can put lipstick and other artificial layers on a pig and it is still a pig. I would rather walk my path alone in life than sleep with a pig. Pig’s aren’t kosher.

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All Heart January 24, 2014 at 06:59

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Charles Martel January 24, 2014 at 08:02

OT: Feminism eats one of its own.

Three actually. One dead, one incarcerated and one deprived of the means of child support.

Woman has two daughters by different fathers.
Woman forces older daughter into parental role to younger daughter.
Older daughter does not appreciate mother’s laziness, kills younger daughter at 7:50 am with mother absent from the house.

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Anonymous Reader January 24, 2014 at 09:01

Opus, it just occurred to me that Lena Doughgirl’s endless flashing of her flab is another form of the “fat acceptance” bandwagon. As such, the visual assault is a deliberate attempt to revise what is considered to be attractive.

The viewership numbers suggest it is unlikely to work.

And once again, for McQuack, All Heart and the rest of the concern trolls, Welmer’s point is all about the top-down, “SHUT UP YOU BAD, CRAZY MAN” attitude displayed when anyone dared to Question Authority…

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Richard January 24, 2014 at 09:17

Great piece with a provocative way of viewing the situation.

I should mention I have never seen the show, as I don’t have TV. I get free entertainment from reading about ducks, deens, dancers, and dumpettes, so why waste time and money actually watching?

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Dan the man January 24, 2014 at 12:21

@All Heart Try Paleo, your moods, and weight might stop going up and down like an elevator. Then you can find better role models, and not have your feelings on your sleeves.

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greyghost January 24, 2014 at 17:35

The concept of this article go well with this article http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/18/why-is-ok-cupid-a-stew-of-misogynist-harassment/#comment-1214383041 The women that object are not desirable any way. Game.

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Dire Badger January 25, 2014 at 00:00

@all heart:
I have used anger and degradation because I do not believe you are capable of rational discussion. You make insipid observations, refer to ridiculous egalitarian fantasy as ‘proof’ of irrational psychological principles, and refer constantly to your ‘feelings’ as if they had some sort of validity in logical debate.

” oatmeal, whole wheat cold cereal (almond milk), salmon and toast or a breakfast health drink (veggies and fruits – super greens, apples, blueberries, carrots, flax seed, and a whole lot more.) For lunch I often eat salad, tuna and veggie soup or lean non GMO turkey. I seriously watch my sodium intake. People are so worried about being glutten free but no one pays attention to how much sodium they are taking in. Which is ridiculous because Celiacs disease only affects 1% of the population while heart disease is the leading killer in both men and women over multiple kinds of cancer. Once you get use to eating low sodium, you see how much pretty much everyone over-salts everything. On my salad I only put Braggs unfiltered Apple Cider vinegar. No oil. And I mix it up with some Balsamic dressing. Sometimes I don’t even eat dinner, sometimes I do. Dinner could be salad, soup or chicken, brown rice, Quinoa, fish, spagatti squash as a fill in for even whole wheat spagatti.”

I rest my case. Dumbest diet I have ever seen. If you had paid attention to ANY nutritional science in the last eight years you would realize that what you describe is nothing more than the FDA’s ‘maximize commercial while killing people’ diet. Whole grains? do you really think humans evolved with four stomachs to digest whole grains of any sorts? avoiding salt and fat? again, salt has been proven to have NO effect on heart disease, and fat actually is an important part of your diet… GOOD fat.

The ONLY thing in that list that is actually healthy is the salmon and tuna… the rest is a list of overpriced GARBAGE that shows that your nutritional education is founded on reruns of Oprah and Doctor Drew. Have you actually read ANYTHING coming out of the cancer and heart disease laboratories for the last ten years? SUGAR, specifically simple sugars from both real sugar, large-grain sugars like HFCS, and simple carbohydrates, such as those from grains and processed ‘fillers’, are the secret killer that food manufacturers have been stuffing in food for decades. Not out of a conspiracy, but simply because sugar ‘tastes good’ and food processors have realized that you can sell bricks coated in sewage if it’s filled with sugar.

Frankly, your response shows that while you are a talented and convincing writer, attempting to argue logically with you will be the same waste of time that attempting to be rational always is when arguing with egalitarians. Experience has taught me that the only ‘argument’ liberals, marxists, feminists, and other believers in ‘social justice’ understand is a solid and resounding ‘fuck you’.

You can lead a horse to water… you have somehow found your way to the spearhead, and instead of reading the THOUSANDS of articles that calmly and rationally disprove every single thing you have stated, and show their clearly ludicrous nature, you instead moved in and started to try to ‘change’ the place. You want a rational discussion? educate yourself… until then, you are presenting nothing other than childish feelings.

Why should we restrain ourselves from referring to lena as the monstrosity she is? seriously… WHY? What rational arguments can you present to what is, in essence, self-censoring or hiding our opinions. She will never read this site, she is a celebrity. This is obvious… what is not obvious is why we should not call her a cow.

Frankly, I have absolutely no anger or hate. I use the tone because it calls your attention on an emotional level, since that is where all your arguments lie. And trying to claim that there is ‘no shame in getting older’ is simply a transparent attempt to dodge the fact that there IS shame in behaving inappropriately, regardless of your age.

BTW- you need to look into plaeo, as mentioned above, and you also need to learn a little about ‘staggered fitness schedules’. heavy aerobics multiple days in a row fucks your body up proper. The appropriate way to stay fit is to keep a diet high in protein, avoid carbs like the poison they are, do HARD exercise every two to three days and then relax a little. If you are both weight training and doing aerobic, stagger them…weight training one day, aerobic the other… and most importantly, do NOT jog… RUN, hard, two times a week or so, and if you need more aerobics mix it up with biking, and especially swimming… the daily jog is insanely destructive to your spine, legs, and feet, and does far more damage than it might ever help.

I USED to be a fatass loser with bungee weight, until I educated myself… my weight does not bungee. but it took a brush with diabetes for me to realize how stupid my regimen was. Now, in my forties, I am ten times as healthy as I was at 20.

Want respect? educate yourself.

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Jaego January 25, 2014 at 13:28

Mandatory viewing of Dunham may become a punishment for us in the American Gulags soon to open. Imagine having to watch her cavort around naked with your eyes stapled open like Alex in a Clockwork Orange. That’ll teach you to love Big Sister.

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All Heart January 25, 2014 at 13:42

@DantheMan

A) I said nothing about my moods. I believe I’ve been nothing but perfectly respectful in my responses here. If you don’t agree, point me to where I’ve been rude and I will rectify it immidately.
B) My weight doesn’t go up and down like an “elevator”. No need to be degrading, especially when I shared something personal to me and my life in an attempt to simply offer a different opinion, thank you.
C) Are you refering to the paleo diet? It’s a good options however I stick more to a mediterranean / Dr. Ornish diet considering my families history of heart diesase. If you aren’t familiar with the Dr.Ornish diet, you can google him.
D) Laura Dunham is not a “role model”. She is simply an example of a normal woman’s body. One that has not been scuplted by hours at the gym and living off off celery, one that has not been photoshopped by the pages of either Cosmo or Playboy. While I understand someone not being attracted to her, again, the vitrol against her, the anger, makes little sense. I don’t get angry at people who smoke just because I don’t like to smoke and I think it’s bad for your health. I don’t get angry at people who pierce their tongues even though it’s hard for me look at that without wincing. I don’t get mad at people who put those huge gauges in their ears making these huge holes even though I don’t think it’s attractive. I don’t hear anger against someone like Charlie Sheen even though he is wasting his life away on drinking and drugs. Where is the anger for his habits and what he is doing to his body? I hear anger here against one woman that shows her body on a half-hour tv show that ‘s season is only probably about 12 episodes where one does not have to be forced to turn it on if they do not like her or the show. I don’t get it.

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Dan the man January 25, 2014 at 19:59

@All Heart Nothing for me to say, that’s not already been said by DB, better than I can. I am done feeding the Troll.

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Boomer January 26, 2014 at 14:53

I have to laugh at these over the hill hags like McQuacker aka Allheart.
They’re either boring us with tales of their daily food fetishes and bowel movements or mentioning females they think are hot. None of these females is ever under 40 or is good looking. Here’s a few they mentioned:
Winger 58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Debra_Winger_and_son_at_Obama_inauguration.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kathy_Bates_2006.jpg

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Melissa+McCarthy&qpvt=Melissa+McCarthy&FORM=IGRE

If that wasn’t bad enough then they list names of who they think men think are hot. That’s just as funny. Mostly those Amazon models who are now over the hill and weren’t even wanted by men when they were young. And why do they always mention Megan Fox. She’s terrible with those fake boobs and disgusting trailer park tattoos. She’s a good example of a nice looking girl who should have just left her body alone.

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Boomer January 26, 2014 at 14:57

Laura Dunham is not a “role model”. She is simply an example of a normal woman’s body

The average female does not resemble Humpty Dumpty.At least not where I’m from.

‘One that has not been scuplted by hours at the gym and living off off celery

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Boomer January 26, 2014 at 15:12

“One that has not been scuplted[sic] by hours at the gym and living off off celery”

I don’t know of any females who spend hours at a gym and they all have normal weight bodies and physiques. They don’t live on celery either and a few of them eat more than I do as a man.Fatness and especially the distribution of fat on a female’s body is all genetic. All you can do is make it worse if you have this predisposition to fatness. Even if you manage to diet and temporarily lose weight the fat deposits will remain in the same spots. Do you believe that working out for hours is going to change the shape of a Hottentot female? The best that you can look is all genetic.

‘I don’t hear anger against someone like Charlie Sheen even though he is wasting his life away on drinking and drugs. Where is the anger for his habits ‘

People have commented on his lifestyle. But let’s remember that he’s a MAN and what he does to his body has no effect on reproduction, the most important thing in life. As you can see he has produced healthy kids. A female doing the same things would have problems either getting pregnant, not having miscarriages and perhaps even delivering a defective kid.
There’s a double standard so learn to accept it.Females are criticized for certain things and men for other things.

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Towgunner January 27, 2014 at 10:54

@ all heart and mcquack:

K, since we have your attention as trolling feminists. I’d like to take this opportunity to state something very important. I. AM. NOT. YOUR. INFERIOR!

And, if you continue to believe that 1/2 the population is both inferior and “obsolete” then you are no different than all the other supremacists, let me repeat SUPREMACISTS, out there such as nazi’s. Don’t laugh it off, play coy or any of those things. Do you have an idea how disgusting feminism has become? You are not superior to me and all other men. But since it was YOU who went this far then we have no choice but to conclude that “equality” is now demonstrably impossible. Remember feminism was sold to the public as “equality” and now we see repeated msm articles etc., in places like the “atlantic” making declarations that sound like they’re from hitler himself. Doubt me? All you have to do is switch some words around to reveal the extent of your evil. Consider the “atlantic’s” front page a few years ago that asked “are men inferior?” That can be re-examined in a number of ways. For instance, replace “men” with something else…how about Jews (since you’re no different than nazis). Let’s look at the results: “are “Jews” Inferior?” Would this be published today? I’ll bet the farm that exact title was published in nazi Germany. Of course, what about this – “Are “women” inferior?” Screech! Bloody murder right?

You have to know this can’t last. And it won’t since it was YOU that proved equality is unobtainable. Moreover that “empowering” women has led to massive institutional discrimination of 1/2 the human population. So, after some inevitable economic re-balancing don’t expect the other side to look anything like this.

You are supremacists!

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All Heart January 27, 2014 at 13:20

Dire, the reason you use anger and degradation has nothing to do with me or believing I’m not capable of rational discussion. People don’t waste time rationalizing with people they believe are not capable of rational discussion. I know I don’t. And if you do waste your time trying to rationalize with people you believe are incapable of rational discussion, what does that say about you?

You very well might use it to get attention but it is an ineffective mode of discussion. You want someone to listen to what you have to say? Don’t degrade them and then ask them to listen to you or “trust” you. You diminish your own position that way. You don’t gain someone’s respect and trust by calling them names and being verbally abusive. And if you positively respond to people who are verbally abusive to you and degrade you, then I would say you don’t respect yourself and you should ask for more respect from others if anyone in your life does that to you.

I do not believe for one moment that you believe a diet high in fruits, veggies, fish, low in sodium and good grains as the “dumbest diet ever”. You are the only person in the world that would call that diet “dumb”.

Here is the deal with nutritional science. Even the best people in the field don’t have all the answers. As soon as one small little study indicates a tiny possibility about our bodies or eating habits, that little tidbit gets jumped on and over exploited. One moment scientists are saying coffee is bad for you, the next moment they are saying it’s good for you, only to go back and say it’s bad for you.

Up until recently, doctors, prestigious medical professionals, didn’t even know that heart disease affects men differently from women. Not to get too in depth but to give you an example, when women get heart disease the plaque usually lines the artery in an even coat, making it harder to detect. When men get heart disease plaque can be found in clumps. Usually women get their smaller veins clogged while men are more prone to their larger arteries becoming clogged. Not every one’s body is the same and neither should we all be eating the same exact things.

There is no doctor or scientist that would ever prescribe a monolithic diet for all people. There can be basic guidelines that apply to all of us, but there will never be one kind of diet that will apply to all people. What might be good for you, might not necessarily be good for me. Believing in any monolithic, one size fits all diet, just isn’t reasonable.

The paleo diet is the newest trend. Personally, I don’t totally understand the rationale of prescribing people to eat similarly to cavemen. A) cave men needed much more protein and fat to survive than we currently do. We neither have to hunt for our food or survive extreme weather conditions outside. Add in the fact that cavemen didn’t exactly have long lives, the average caveman living to about 30-35. It’s also been discovered that cavemen had heart disease. But none of them actually lived long enough to see the long term affects. Now I am not against eating animals for protein. However, protein can be obtained other ways. And the draw back of consuming too much animal protein is cholesterol. All animal products have cholesterol. Did you know that our bodies naturally produce all the cholesterol we will ever need? We do not need to supplement extra cholesterol into our diets. That doesn’t mean I think we shouldn’t eat meat. I do. When the animals aren’t pumped up with chemicals and living in abusive conditions, when it isn’t red meat and not to the huge american portions that we’ve come to know. But I think people who go vegetarian or vegan are able to be just as healthy without animal proteins as long as they are actually eating living food (food that comes from the earth directly) vs dead food ( pre-packaged food that dominate the supermarket isle), and finding other ways to fill the protein gaps.

Grains have very much been a part of the human diet B.C. Grains are good for us. As long as they are unprocessed grains. That’s the key. And sadly, a lot of companies have tainted grains by over processing them. Lets look at Oatmeal. Not all oatmeals are created equal. Quaker Oats oatmeal is crap. Steel cut oats or pinhead oats aren’t. Human beings should very much have grains in their diet. However, they need to be aware of how different companies treat or process their grains and steer clear of those who process them and extract all the original nutrients. Now Quinoa is one of the best grains one can eat. It’s been around since the Incas. It is high in protein, magnesium, fiber and iron. It’s not the only grain one can eat, but it’s a healthy and tasty option.

You are wrong that salt has been proven to have “no” effect on heart disease”. Here is the deal on salt. Our bodies need salt to a certain extent. However, it doesn’t need the kind of table salt we have all come to know in our American diet and certainly not the excess of it. Table salt is processed and has chemicals we don’t need. The kind of salt we need is unprocessed and pure with no chemicals. Do you eat unprocessed salt or do you simply use regular table salt? Excessive table salt consumption infact does contribute to heart related diseases and death and most Americans consume more than 3 times the salt they truly need. Now if you are talking about pure salt? That’s an entirely different ball game but still, everything should still be in moderation. You can’t simply down a cup of salt a day and expect to be healthy.

Yes it’s true, we need fat in our diet. That’s why I eat fish and organic chicken or turkey, nuts and avocado. So I think it’s silly that after I told you that these where part of my diet, you attempted to make it seem like I was avoiding the right kind of fat. I do stay away from olive oil because of the history of heart disease in my family and new information I’ve been reading that olive oil may not be as good for us as originally thought because many companies over report the kind of olive oil they are selling. Meaning, that it’s still olive oil however it’s over processed like everything else and a lot of the true health benefits in a lot of supermarket olive oils are unfounded. So for now, I reserve my judgement on olive oil. My diet will not be the correct diet for everyone. If you have no history of heart disease in your family, you can probably get away with eating things I am not willing to take a risk on. I’ve seen it affect the lives of 4 men in my family and I’ve seen it take 3 of them away.

You said the only think good on my list was tuna and salmon and everything else was over priced garbage. That means you basically just said oatmeal, veggies and fruits, salad, turkey our overpriced garbage. Again, I know of no human being in my everyday life or the medical/science community that would ever utter such a statement.

Now I do like certain pricey speciality items. I am not embarrassed about that. Braggs puts out some good healthy products. (Unfilttered apple cider vinegar and the Nutrtional Yeast which is a B-12 supplement and a great substitute for table salt.) You have to be careful about what kind of almond milk you buy though because it can be high in sugar. But there are almond milks offered without all the sugar.

You brought up sugar perhaps in response to my almond milk or the eating of fruit. Again, I don’t know a doctor that would prescribe not to eat fruit because of sugar. Fruit has naturally occuring sugar which is far different from the sugar found in a lot of products. Fruit, and sugar for the sake of sugar are years apart.

You must watch Oprah and Doctor Drew (not sure who that is) to even know that they talk about this stuff.
Let me give you some sources of information I bet you never heard of but I know will blow your mind. Check out FoodBabe.com, EWG.org, and my all time favorite and one of the websites that is truly stellar: cspinet.org (Nutrition Action). Sign up to get the newsletter. It’s a really great newsletter that has a high reputation in delivering unbiased information in the interest of public health.

Thank you for the compliment. I am a talented writer. Convincing or not, I’ll let the facts speak for themselves. Although it has not been lost on me how in the beginning you said that I was not capable of rational discussion and then gave me a compliment about being a convincing writer.

Frankly, my responses show that I am able to intellectually debate a point without relaying on name calling and degradation. By the way, you have already attempted to argue logically with me. You made that comment as if you weren’t already doing just that. I’m sorry you feel that it’s okay to say “fuck you” to people who simply disagree with you. Lets show each other respect.

I am not trying to change Spearhead. I just am sharing my opinion. As long as I remain respectful to you and the other members of this community, we should all be able to have good discussions. I enjoy a good discussion.

Please show me which part of my comments exhibit childish feelings? I’m all open ears here. I will be waiting for your proof. Thanks.

You do realize that referring to someone as a “monstrosity” is an emotional comment, not a rational one right? Again, if you are not attracted to Dunham, hey no problem. That I get. I’m not attracted to Jason Alexander. But I don’t feel the need to call him names. I don’t get the name calling. That’s irrational.

I am not too worried about her reading the site or not. I don’t think people should call people names simply because they won’t see it. I believe in respect for people at all times whether they can hear it or not.

Frankly, Dire, you are full of anger and hate. You use that tone because *you* are emotional, not me.

There is no shame in getting older. Unless you feel more ashamed of yourself each year you age? I don’t. Do you?

I have a question for you. Do you watch porn? I only ask because you said that you thought it was inappropiate for a woman to take her clothes off…during a scripted tv show..a show that is all of 30 mins that you can turn off anytime you want.

I mentioned nothing about running or jogging either so I am not sure why you think this advice applies to me. I said I walk my dog, not run with it. I mix up my aerobics with weight raining and yoga. I already bike (not sure why you are suggesting this to me), sometimes I roller-blade and I use the eliptical. So again, you aren’t telling me stuff I don’t already know. I do swim sometimes but not regularly. However, I am putting a pool in this year so I will be doing more swimming for sure.

You might have been fat, but you were never a loser.

And I am not here to seek your respect. I respect myself enough for the both of us. Thanks.

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All Heart January 27, 2014 at 13:37

Boomer, I don’t know any woman that resembles Humpty Dumpty. I know lots of women with lots of different body shapes. Body shapes we usually don’t see unclothed because in our culture and media, there is a very narrow box where only a certain kind of woman’s body is usually shown. I am all for more divereity and not holding onto unrealistic tv/movie/music video/magazine perceptions and preoccupation with the female form.

You said : “People have commented on his lifestyle. But let’s remember that he’s a MAN and what he does to his body has no effect on reproduction, the most important thing in life. As you can see he has produced healthy kids. A female doing the same things would have problems either getting pregnant, not having miscarriages and perhaps even delivering a defective kid. There’s a double standard so learn to accept it.Females are criticized for certain things and men for other things.”

A) You are actually medically and biologically wrong that what a man does with his body has no affect on reproduction. Biology didn’t create a system where unhealthy men were good for their offspring while only the mothers had to be healthy. Both parents have to be healthy.

B) Men’s weight, diet, eating habits, exercise habits, family history and age all contribute to the health of his own children. Please do research on this. It appears you need to read up on your own body. One of the easiest ways to see this is how ED affects older and overweight men more than younger and healthier men.

C) Isn’t it funny that Dunham is simply criticized for her body while men like Charlie Sheen can humilate, shame and degrade his co-stars, ex wives and his own children by banging pornstars in the rooms next to them while in family vacations and he gets an entirely new showand not much criticism? Ironic.

D) You are most certainly right there is a double standard. The double standard is not recongnizing the responsibility for men to be fit and healthy for the benefit of their own off spring. And unfortunately, the ones who suffer most will be that man’s off spring. Not women, not other people..his children. This actually does a huge disservice to men themselves by exclusively focusing on women’s health and denying men the right to focus on their health as well.

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Towgunner January 27, 2014 at 14:27

“Frankly, Dire, you are full of anger and hate. You use that tone because *you* are emotional, not me.”

Ah, no all heart. He’s not emotional you are, and you have provide all the evidence we need – reference all your comments.

I want to very clear with you. You, all heart, and all feminists are full of anger and hate. The ideology you support is calling for male genocide and openly declares 1/2 the human population inferior and obsolete. This is nothing new to the human experience; we’ve seen this before. The nazis declared certain people inferior, leading to the dehumanizing of these people and ultimately the mechanical extermination of millions of humans, namely Jews. Ignore me all you want, but, men never wrote front page articles in national magazines asking “are men inferior?” or have we ever called women obsolete.

You are hate, from stem to stern and down to your core. If DB sounds angry to you…well, what do you expect? Try experiencing what its like to have society call you inferior and then you’ll know how we may “feel”. Feelings and emotion aside, humanity is better off without feminism…your side proved it to be so. The men and women who come to The Spearhead and other sites are just the first ones to realize this.

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All Heart January 27, 2014 at 16:11

It’s an illogical fallacy and a strawman argument to say “all” my comments are emotional. Please pick out several sentences that point to an irrational emotional response to give me some examples of what you consider emotional. That should be simple based on what you believe about my comments to begin with yes?

Please keep in mind that each and everyone of us come to our own arguments and conclusions based on an accumulation of who we are at our core, are individual life experiences, or emotional experiences and facts and data and how we have processed those facts and data based on who we are as individuals. Basically, we are not robots. No one on this entire earth all “fact” or all “emotion”. This is why you can have two highly intelligent people that stand on opposite sides of an issue. Because they came to their own beliefs based on their life experiences, their emotional experiences, their backgrounds, their up bringing and the facts and data they picked up a long the way and how they have perceived the facts and data. This is why there are both highly intelligent Democrats and Republicans. This is why some people are Christians and other people are Jewish.

There are reasons why you are opposed to Feminism and not all of them have to do with pure facts. Neither should they be. You are a human being, not a robot. You have probably had personal experiences in your own life that where negative when it either came to women or Feminism. No one on this earth, no human being, not the President, not the pope, does not believe what they believe, does not support what they support, simply because of stone cold facts.

Secondly, I have never identified myself as a feminist so it would be kind of you to stop assuming such things. Feminism has been far from perfect. It’s had it’s highs and it’s lows. It’s been both good and bad, like everything else in our world. And I think both men and women are still struggling to feel equal in a world where clearly many of us don’t still feel that way.

I hugely disagree with you that Feminism is calling for “male genocide”. And I think it’s offensive to what Jewish people went through where you have implied that the plight of men today is the same as anything to what the Jewish people went through during the Holocust. And I would safely bet my home that if any Jewish man heard you make such a comparison, they would be offended as well. They went through atrocities that not any of us..ANY of us…can imagine.

You have a legitimate argument to be concerned about issues men face today. But you are going to spoil it by comparing it to the Holocust. That’s not offensive to women. That’s offensive to Jewish people.

I have no clue why DB is angry at me. I opened up about my body issues and how it was nice for a change to see a woman that didn’t look perfect. I never said anything about men being bad or any junk like that.

Your anger is hurting you more than anyone else. And I pray, for your own well being, that you can come at this issue with a renewed spirit.

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Launchpadd McQuack January 27, 2014 at 21:02

Boomer, Debra Winger was really good looking when she was younger, hence the reason why I mentioned her in Wonder Woman, the first time I saw her.

You’re a little stupid if can’t understand that, or maybe you’re just a little too young to not know who these people were, since you actually had to google search them.

And no, I’m not the same person as All Heart. See, there you go again, resorting to emotional attacks based on nothing.

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Anonymous Reader January 28, 2014 at 08:46

‘I don’t hear anger against someone like Charlie Sheen even though he is wasting his life away on drinking and drugs. Where is the anger for his habits ‘

To the best of my knowledge, Charlie Sheen doesn’t have a cable TV series pretty much dedicated to glorifying his bad habits, whereas Girls is exactly that for Lena Doughgirl and her BFF’s.

Plus, if such a TV series existed, and if some reporter were to challenge Charlie Sheen with “Hey, how come there’s so much drug and booze time on your show, eh?” and if Charlie then went on a rant about how mentally ill the reporter is for even thinking about asking such a question — then you’d likely see a similar response to the Empress Lena bragging about her new clothes.

Do try to stay on topic, ok?

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All Heart January 28, 2014 at 15:06

Charlie Sheen doesn’t have a cable tv series dedicated to glorifying his bad habits? Come on. I only saw one or two episodes of Two and Half Men and that show totally glorifyed his bad habits and was pretty derogatory toward women. I can only imagine his other new show, “Anger Management”, is probably pretty simliar. Just look at the title.

Charlie has gone on numerous rants throughout the media with more than one resporter and people are still toning into his show and I even hear guys say stuff like, “He’s a lucky guy”, because he sleeps with pornstars.

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Jabberwocky January 28, 2014 at 21:07

Oh God. Don’t bother with the down votes, but I actually like the show. I believe it nails the dysfunction of our age pretty well. I’m sure Dunham is a confused feminist, but many red pill messages exist in the show despite any agenda. It’s a show about damaged people. People are damaged, especially now and days. Truth is good art to me. Oh well, no pushing this mob back at this point. And since I’m in the devil’s advocate position, yes, there was no excuse for the panel reacting like that, but I’d have to hear the tone of the guys question to be fair. I believes he might have been provoking them on purpose. Whatever the truth, they didn’t handle it well. Flame away brothers.

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Chilangringo January 31, 2014 at 13:47

Lena Dunham is fat and ugly. No amount of exposure will make fat and ugly attractive.

She gets lauded by the “fat acceptance” crowd, a few celebrities, a few critics (who themselves are usually fat and ugly), and feminists (also fat and ugly). And that’s about it.

As always happens with most media/pop culture, we will look back on her silly obsession with appearing nude as one of the sadder aspects of this particular decade. There was some good pop stuff that came out of the 60′s that is still admired (like The Beattles and Jimi Hendrix), but every other decade of pop culture is roundly criticized. Lena Dunham will be no different. Plus, by then, she will be 40, still fat and ugly, and living in obscurity somewhere.

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Lothario February 3, 2014 at 05:11

That Apatow is such a bitch. “Do you have a girlfriend?” “Well tell me how it goes tonight” Pure beta drivel. I decide when I fuck. I have control over vagina. But bitches like Apatow will never understand that.

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Anonymous Reader February 4, 2014 at 07:08

Charlie Sheen doesn’t have a cable tv series dedicated to glorifying his bad habits?

No, he does not.

Come on. I only saw one or two episodes of Two and Half Men and that show totally glorifyed his bad habits and was pretty derogatory toward women.

It may have escaped your notice, but that show is no longer in production. Therefore it is factually incorrect to say “Charlie Sheen has a show called ‘Two and a Half Men’”.

I can only imagine his other new show, “Anger Management”, is probably pretty simliar. Just look at the title.

Well, sure, and I bet you routinely judge books by their covers, too, now don’t you?

Charlie has gone on numerous rants throughout the media with more than one resporter and people are still toning into his show and I even hear guys say stuff like, “He’s a lucky guy”, because he sleeps with pornstars.

So what? Look, it’s a nice little rabbit trail you’ve chosen to run down, but none of it changes the facts regarding Lena Doughgirl’s routine top-dropping on her TV show, and the notion that anyone who objects to it is mentally ill. That’s reality, no matter how much you don’t like it.

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Dire Badger February 4, 2014 at 09:07

“It’s an illogical fallacy and a strawman argument to say “all” my comments are emotional.”
Try ‘logical fallacy’. There’s no such thing as an ‘illogical fallacy’ since the statement is, by it’s very nature, redundant. And actually, you are using the term ‘strawman’ incorrectly. a straw man is where you place a conclusion specifically into someone else’s mouth so that you can tear it down without addressing their actual comment. Sort of like you did with my comments. Assuming that your misuse of rhetoric is based upon emotion is actually kinder than simply assuming you are an idiot…So I stand corrected.

“Please keep in mind that each and everyone of us come to our own arguments and conclusions based on an accumulation of who we are at our core, are individual life experiences, or emotional experiences and facts and data and how we have processed those facts and data based on who we are as individuals.”
You can certainly come to your own arguments based upon ‘who you are at your core’, but any ‘conclusion’ based upon anything other than empirical evidence is not a conclusion, it is a GUESS. Fact is not amenable to life experiences, emotional experiences, or who you are as an individual, fact is FACT, and exists independent of your emotrional framework. The idea that conclusions are amenable to emotional manipulation is, itself, an emotional argument based upon wishful thinking.

“This is why you can have two highly intelligent people that stand on opposite sides of an issue.”
If two highly intelligent people stand on opposite sides of an issue, one of those people is WRONG. They are either not as intelligent as they think they are (like virtually the entire ‘intellectual’ community) or they are working with faulty data. Or, as in the case of most women, both.

“There are reasons why you are opposed to Feminism and not all of them have to do with pure facts.”
Actually, every single opposition to feminism is based entirely upon pure fact. these have been outlined in tens of thousands of writings over the last couple of thousands of years. you may be thinking of gender-hatred, which is not, in fact, an aspect of opposition to feminism.

” This is why there are both highly intelligent Democrats and Republicans.”
No one ever claimed that either party were morons… they are not, they are greedy, sociopathic, short-sighted, self-absorbed narcissists. It requires the drive that only a sociopathic narcissist possesses in order to get elected in the first place. Socialised Democracy is the root cause of our problem.

“No one on this earth, no human being, not the President, not the pope, does not believe what they believe, does not support what they support, simply because of stone cold facts.”
Excuse me, too many double negatives… strict negative parings means that there are people who support things because of stone cold facts? sure, okay… what’s the point?

“Secondly, I have never identified myself as a feminist so it would be kind of you to stop assuming such things.”
Actually, you have not used the title but you have repeatedly quoted feminism-inspired falsehoods and feminist reasoning. Claiming you are not a feminist despite supporting them is what we refer to as ‘rationalization’. The hamster is spinning pretty hard right now.

“Feminism has been far from perfect. It’s had it’s highs and it’s lows. It’s been both good and bad, like everything else in our world.”
Bullshit. feminism has not accomplished a single thing that hasn’t been stolen from someone else. It has not made a single change that has been proven, in the long run, to be a net gain for the human species. It has not improved technology, it has not reduced the need to make a living by the sweat of your brow for everyone, it has not provided a single thing that was not provided before it existed via a different avenue. It is evil, and has been nothing but bad…. of course, if you actually read any history you would already know that the general well-being and quality of life of women compared to men PRIOR to feminism was much higher than it is post-feminism.

“I hugely disagree with you that Feminism is calling for “male genocide”. And I think it’s offensive to what Jewish people went through where you have implied that the plight of men today is the same as anything to what the Jewish people went through during the Holocust.”
Valerie Solanas. look it up. Mary Daly. those are just two I can think of off the top of my head… and they were not ‘lightweights’ or ‘fringers’ in the movement. this is EXACTLY what was happening to the jews between world war 1 and 2. And what’s ‘offensive’ is your complete inability to recognize it. the difference is that the Jews have been sucking on the tit of holocaust guilt for WAY too long… everyone that did it is dead, everyone that experienced it is dead. I am not crying about the saxons wiping out my Celtic forebears. It’s done, they need to get the fuck over it…men, for the most part, hate being victims, there’s no percentage in being a ‘victimized’ man’, and it doesn’t get you laid…thus, useless.

“You have a legitimate argument to be concerned about issues men face today. But you are going to spoil it by comparing it to the Holocust. That’s not offensive to women. That’s offensive to Jewish people. ”

Being inoffensive has accomplished NOTHING. Tyrants and bullies thrive on people being too frightened to give offense. And that’s what feminism is, in it’s core… bullies. Only they are the worst sort of bullies, they are eddy haskells… hiding behind a facade of ‘victim’ and ‘innocent’ while they commit atrocities.
Do you really think that a man having his children ripped away from him and then going to jail because he lost his job and cannot pay child support is somehow NOT as bad as the nazis ripping jewish children away from their parents and sending the adults to prison camps? at least the jews were being betrayed by an ENEMY, instead of their life partner, their very own family… At least they could afford to HATE their oppressors.
Men are in the position of a young catholic man who’s beloved has just announced she is joining a convent… not only can we not protest, not rail against the person whom we love and who is supposed to love us in return, but by the rules and customs we are supposed to be HAPPY for them! Fuck that! If I am going to be oppressed, I want it to be by a stormtrooper I can really hate.

Frankly, I strongly doubt Towgunner has any reason to give a shit about whether you think he has a ‘legitimate argument’. It is a fact, it exists outside of your approval.
THAT is the reason for my hatred. Frankly, women are incapable of intelligent and rational discussion. The only reason I am even pointing out how stupid and irrational you are is to show you for what you are, a troll. a troll that (often) can spell, but a troll nonetheless. You are an object lesson of the way women ‘argue’, and the more incensed you become and the more you attempt to argue for ‘reasonableness’, the easier it becomes for people to see your massive inconsistencies and glaringly flawed thought patterns.

So thanks.

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