Talvisota: How Finnish Men Kept their Country

by W.F. Price on January 22, 2014

Last night, I watched Talvisota, the 1989 film rendition of the Winter War, a short but fierce border conflict between Finland and the Soviet Union during the first year of World War II. Finns, newly independent from Imperial Russia, were confronted by Stalin’s ambition and paranoia. With no allies to speak of, outnumbered and lacking modern fighting vehicles, they inflicted enormous damage on the Red Army. Stalin ultimately achieved part of his objective, but lost a great deal of international sympathy and respect in doing so. Finland, for its part, avoided the fate of its Baltic neighbors (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland), remaining independent throughout WWII and the Cold War.

Talvisota depicts Finland as a simple, but proud country with an egalitarian spirit and incredible tenacity. Finns have a respect for tradition, their Lutheran faith, and, most of all, their land, refusing to yield an inch of territory without a fight. Despite being confronted with enormous numbers of Red Army soldiers, tanks and airplanes, they managed to inflict casualties at a ratio of approximately five to one. It may be tempting to write off the Red Army of the time as hopelessly incompetent and bungling, but just a year before the Winter War general Zhukov had crushed Japanese forces in the Battle of Khalkin Ghol in Manchuria and Mongolia, which was the true beginning of WWII, and featured the most recent Mongol cavalry action in East Asia, although probably not the last.

The movie focuses on two brothers who leave their family farm to defend a border outpost as political tensions rise. When negotiations between the Soviets and Finns fail, they are attacked by tanks, airplanes, artillery and massed troops. Holding on in their trenches and bunkers in the forests and farmland of the frontier, they repel wave after wave of Soviet assaults, suffering severe losses themselves. The young men of the platoon featured in the movie are from the same region – Ostrobothnia – and many are related by blood and marriage. Although this amplifies the pain of loss, it also strengthens their resolve to fight, as they know they are risking death not only for an abstract notion of Finland, but for their own kin.

This is a lesson lost on many Americans, and may explain our failure in Afghanistan, where the war is very personal for the Pashtuns. We may think of Afghans as feudal, backward barbarians, but their blood ties are very strong in the isolated valleys of the mountainous land. On the other hand, as the US evolves into a “proposition nation,” we may find that our citizens have little regard for any territory or the fates of their fellow citizens, who may as well be foreigners, thereby requiring other incentives for fighting.

However, the strong feeling of solidarity is not the only characteristic of a nation united by a common heritage, but a sense of egalitarianism as well. Finnish superiors are reluctant to throw men away, and officers share the discomforts and misfortunes of their men. One gets the sense that when it’s all over, the survivors – whatever their rank – will return to their villages and farms and take up their old lives on an even footing. It seems that Finland retains this sense of solidarity and egalitarianism today, which has prevented both the country and the Finns as a people from descending into the tyranny that has come to characterize the UK, where thousands of native Britons are arrested every year for what are, essentially, thoughtcrimes, even as their national identity is crushed and their patrimony stolen by a hostile elite.

Unfortunately, for those of us living in what are essentially modern empires, such solidarity may be impossible. The United States is too large, as is China, India, and even Russia. Feelings of nationalistic pride can never become a fixed part of the national identity in these states, as they are too rigid and unwieldy for spread-out civilizations of hundreds of millions of inhabitants. They are better suited to smaller countries that, due to a lower population and/or geographic proximity, encourage both blood ties and personal relationships throughout the country. Examples would be Ireland, Israel, Korea, etc.

I’d highly recommend the movie to men who are interested in 20th century history, as well as those who might be curious about what real patriotism looks like. The film offers a portrayal of one of the noblest qualities of men, and yet one of the greatest tragedies of the human condition. As far as war movies go, it holds its own with classics like Kubrick’s Full Metal Jacket, and what it lacks in flashy cinematography is easily made up for in its very human realism and historical accuracy.

{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }

Kevin T January 22, 2014 at 14:28

We Finns call the tenacity you allude to sisu. It tends to look like a completely irrational, borderline insane intransigence to those not familiar with it.

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Aaron January 22, 2014 at 14:35

Good observations as usual Bill. The larger and more diverse the nation the more difficult it is for natural solidarity to occur. In the NYC area there are an estimated 800 languages spoken. In the past, America could still rely upon an ethnically, religiously, and racially diverse population (ie WW2) to unite with many shared social and cultural values or norms. No longer.

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continent January 22, 2014 at 14:52
Boomer January 22, 2014 at 16:08

‘In the past, America could still rely upon an ethnically, religiously, and racially diverse population’

It was just as diverse in 1900.

“In the NYC area there are an estimated 800 languages spoken.”

That’s ridiculous. English and perhaps Spanish and Chinese may be spoken and very few people cannot understand English. And since 1900 English has become the unofficial language of the world so you have even more people who understand it.
There has always been diversity in the cities.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 18
Boomer January 22, 2014 at 16:36

the tyranny that has come to characterize the UK, where thousands of native Britons are arrested every year for what are, essentially, thoughtcrimes

So whose fault is that? 93% of Britons are still White and native as are 80%+ of Americans so if you can’t stop these things then perhaps you deserve them. Probably do deserve all of this nonsense because you keep voting into office politicians who you know in advance what they will do. The proles never revolt. Your only hope is if a group of the Elite throw out the current group of Elite and their policies and management are more to your liking. And of course they won’t have these policies for your benefit but theirs and it just happens to coincide with something you like better and trickles down to you.

Finland only has about 5m people today, less than 4m in 1940.
Apparently Stalin wasn’t trying very hard probably because there was just nothing there worth making a big effort for.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 35
W.F. Price January 22, 2014 at 16:47

@Boomer

Well, it’s always nice to see a Stalinist come out in the open these days. If you read the contemporary “mainstream” news, you’d think they never existed (as opposed to Nazis, who are apparently still everywhere).

So, what’s the end-game? I’ve always been curious about that part, being an Anglo class enemy.

Tam the Bam January 22, 2014 at 17:11

Doesn’t hurt that a fair few Finns can shoot tolerably straight as well. Couldn’t fancy having to piss down the barrel of that 7.62 every time just to clean it though.

Whereas us Brits can be hauled off to chokey no questions asked for having so much as a boxcutter, a penknife longer than your pinky or a screwdriver in the trunk of the car, never mind down a sock.
But you’ve got to ask yourself one question.
Which government is more afraid of its people?

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Aaron January 22, 2014 at 17:18

Boomer,

Take it easy on the amount of the salt in your diet.

“It was just as diverse in 1900.”
— No, not even close. America was back then a predominately Christian white European-immigrant nation. Sure, there were Asian, Latins, and blacks though not nearly as many sub ethnic and religious groups as now.

“While there is no precise count, some experts believe New York is home to as many as 800 languages — far more than the 176 spoken by students in the city’s public schools or the 138 that residents of Queens, New York’s most diverse borough, listed on their 2000 census forms.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/nyregion/29lost.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

“800 languages spoken” does not mean that some of those speakers do not also use and understand at least some degree of English. Some residents live in secluded ethnic group neighborhoods, work with, and socialize with people from their own group speaking their own language that is not English. Chinese and Vietnamese each have for example multiple dialects. Even if the number is 400 languages that is still a large number.

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Dire Badger January 22, 2014 at 19:11

@Price-

Boomer may be a bit out, but I can understand some of where he’s coming from.
Why, in Londonistan today, can two muslim men methodically cut a firefighter into bite-sized chunks in the middle of a public roadway? Why was not every neighborhood lamp post festooned with gay streamers wearing headcloths and kicking their feet? Why are there no reparations, no nationalist outcries, no riots? Why is every atrocity met with understanding and commiseration, when clearly that accomplishes nothing?

There is a race war in london right this very minute… and the chances of ‘peace’ decline with every atrocity comitted. You do not make peace with people you cannot respect, and you cannot respect those who kneel calmly for the knife. It doesn’t matter whether it’s right or wrong, but UK blokes are, with every unanswered act of rapine, violence, and robbery, proving again and again what a lot of good slaves they are.

Looked at from a Neitschean perspective, the local muslims have clearly established their dominance, and to be fair, without at least a few UK guys willing to answer atrocity with atrocity, it will simply get worse. If such aggressive extremist activity happened here, I could guarantee that me and my friends would be spending some quality time with uncle sam for depriving the local cab companies of their workforce.

Reparations are horrible, they are monstrous, but the fact is, they are the only thing that truly works once the violence starts.

And, in essence, the londonistan boys are proving what enormous, easily-bullied pussies they are each time they knuckle under to sharia courts, or allow the police to take a terrorist into ‘custody’ instead of curb-stomping them. Bullies are Cowards, and only attack when they know they will go unpunished… and right now, the bullies are running free.

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Anonymous Reader January 22, 2014 at 19:36

Stalin’s army did not just attack along the coastline between Leningrad and Finland, several large columns invaded Finland from the east, jumping off from the railway line that ran from Leningrad up to Murmansk on the Arctic Ocean. These columns were very heavily armed, with multiple tanks, trucks carrying troops, mobile kitchens, supplies, and so forth. The Finns could not hope to stand up and fight them.

So they didn’t.

They waited until the Soviets were deep into the forest, and then set up roadblocks both in front of the columns and behind them. The Soviets were still too tough to fight as they sat, though. What do you do with a big piece of wood? Cut it in two. Using “motti” tactics, tiny numbers of FInns on skis stopped and chopped large Soviet forces, by attacking one piece of the column, then another, often two different targets at once. There was no effort to hold ground at first, just destroy vehicles, further immobilizing the road-bound Soviet forces.

The first target was often the mobile kitchen. Say goodbye to hot food in the cold, -40 degree winter, Ivan…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salients,_re-entrants_and_pockets#Motti

The Finns gave the Soviets in the motti’s no rest. Gliding out of the night, a pair of men would whip through part of the Soviet pocket, firing Suomi submachineguns into men and vehicles only to vanish into the dark.

By day? Then there were men like Simo Hayha, “White Death”. Armed mainly with a bolt-action Nagant rifle, he killed 700 Soviets in 100 days. 500 with the rifle, the rest with the Suomi SMG. Some of his shots were taken at 400 yards.

Here is an article about him with some discussion of the Winter War:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

Here is a brief article with 7 images, most taken during the war, including a couple of Hayha at work:
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/white-death-simo-hayh/20951

A lot of sisu in those men, in those times, indeed.

PS: Note that the Finns have their own name for what the rest of the world calls “World War II”. They call it “The Continuation War”.

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revver January 22, 2014 at 19:54

Its hard not to love these folk, God bless em. Fascinating true story about the origins of “the Molotov cocktail”, which originated from the war at the time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail

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Anonymous Reader January 22, 2014 at 20:06

Excellent, revver, I forgot to mention that weapon. Note that in all Soviet reports circa 1941 – 45, this was never referred to by name, but always something like “Improvised Incendiary Weapon” or “Bottle of Incendiary Material”. Because Molotov did not like the name.

The truth hurt, I guess.

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Dan the man January 22, 2014 at 20:36

@Boomer I read about this war, and Stalin wanted it alright. He had huge losses, losing one battle when the Finns blasted the sea ice from under a large mechanized force trying to attack from the south. The military still looks at this war in the various Officer training schools.

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gender foreigner January 22, 2014 at 20:44

Dear Bill and All Others:

Great idea to discuss and thanks for the insights. The cluster of facts shows that PERSONAL attachment is key to the survival of the greater political collective. Such attachment comes at the level of the (patriarchal–aka, REAL) family. No patriarchy: no attachment.

Due to the Feminist problem, the West (and more) is doomed. “Thanks,” Feminists. Your frauenreichen are pre-dead. Your organized crimes are about to become unorganized/disorganized crimes.

The Wicked Witch of the West is dead, the Witch is dead, the Witch is dead. The Wicked Witch of the West is dead, tra la la la la la. (What a movie idea–already been done in fiction, about to be done in fact.) :) Yae!

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gender foreigner January 22, 2014 at 20:51

Of course, any idea that has an up side, also probably has a down side.

During World War I, the British Army had the beginning-of-the-war idea of the, “chum battalion” composed of men who knew each other, especially by way of local affiliation.

For example, see:

Pals battalion – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pals_battalion‎
The Pals battalions of World War I were specially constituted units of the British Army comprising men who had enlisted together in local recruiting drives, with …
.
.
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One trouble with geographic-concentration units was that WHEN such a unit had become the object of significant casualties, the local MP virtually HAD to oppose the war at that point. As such, the parallel construction of armed units with Parliamentary ridings served to make the interface with the state dysfunctional…

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Bob Wallace January 22, 2014 at 20:56

Stalin didn’t try very hard? Another poster mentioned Simo Häyhä. Too bad Stalin didn’t try harder. Simo might have added another hundred notches on his rifle.

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Boomer January 22, 2014 at 21:17

Take it easy on the amount of the salt in your diet.

@Aaron-take it easy with the seltzer and kosher pickles. And stop with the silly statistics because you sound like an autistic retard trying to compare 1900 to today.
It was obviously worse in 1900 when the US let 3m troublemakers from the East into the country and which we are paying for till this day. They were barely off the boat and they were suing people and the gov’t.

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Boomer January 22, 2014 at 21:53

@Price
I’m not a Stalinist, just telling you how the real world works.
And I don’t even know what you mean by class enemy. Do you mean that you’re an enemy of someone from a different class?
There will always be classes regardless of the society or government in place. In the “classless” USSR the top people lived in their country dachas taken from the previous elite and Moscow gated areas and flats.
You can go to the most primitive places on earth and you’ll see a class structure. If everyone is living in a grass hut the top people will have a better and bigger hut. If everyone has a bow and 3 arrows the top men will have a bow and 10 arrows and their wife(s) will have better looking beads and sarongs.
You can’t get away from class because it is part of human nature.And if you believe that a handful of people at the top are controlling all of the resources then you should have had the gumption to force a fairer system where the people with Billions would perhaps just have millions and where everything is not paid for by the middle. And the 50% who never pay any income taxes should be forced to pay something regardless of how small. Many of these non tax payers are female who not only don’t pay anything but get money from EIC so that they can go out and buy $2k handbags and other junk. These girls may also get benefits even if they do have a job so I guess they’re not doing too badly if they’re not using that EIC for food and other necessities which was what it was intended for.

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chinesefootsoldier January 22, 2014 at 22:17

Well, at the moment I’d say China is just as nationalistic as our smaller Asian neighbors. China’s size has lent itself to diversity in the past, but in every instance, it ended badly with the violent expulsion or forceful assimilation of outsiders. Over the long run, the ethnostate is still the most stable and effective nation.

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Ted January 23, 2014 at 02:04

“Stalin’s ambition and paranoia”

Take a look at a map.

Siege of Leningrad: about two and a half million killed. Cheer on, Mr Price.

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DCM January 23, 2014 at 02:29

The salvation of Western culture most likely lies in the breaking up of such huge empires as the US and Canada into independent nations.

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tetradoploccus January 23, 2014 at 04:24

You will not get anything approaching love of country and love of nation by men in THIS godddamned cesspit of a society. Becasue ….

This is a society where officials own your private and presonal relationships, own your children, own your wife, own your daughters, own your sons, own your savings, assets, income, resources and own your employer employee relationships. All this such that you the man at the centre is rendered into no more that a tool and stooge.

This is a society where in the event that you are isolated from your children whom are subsequently killed by their abusive mother, the distressed, shocked and upset authorities generously compensate each other by law for their alleged dismay. Mean time you the bereaved father can go fuck yourself.

This is a society that perpetually continues to squeeze its soldiering defenders with ever more diminishing military budjets, whilst simultaneously increasing the legal budjets to service military wives and military spouses abuse allegations agaisnt their returning service men and husbands. In no other society do men defend a system that casts them as a problem to be solved greater than the outside enemy itself.

This is a society where 30-40 year old hallucinated rape allegations by annonymous persons, can resurface and be entertained as truths requiring the full attention of the States officies. And whilst these pretend matters are being investigated and tried any accused man is for all intents and purposes subject to sex offender treatment whichs refusal or denial carries extra penalties.

This is a society where leadership, left and right, is interpreted to mean delivering ever more goodies and entitlements to be coughed up to those whom contribute least, and ever more disprivileges, forfeitures and penalties applying to men whom contribute the most. Disagreeing with any of this mess only leads a man to identified as racist, homophobic, misogynist, xenophobic, bigoted or backward.

WHY WOULD ANY MAN HERE FEEL OR ACT LIKE THE FINNISH ?

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Mike January 23, 2014 at 05:43

What we are seeing today in America has been referred to as the “Balkanization” of our country.

Essentially, we fracture from within along the lines of alienation from our very own countrymen.

Many factors play into this, and many of them have already been mentioned. Religion, language, race… etc. But, one plays a huge part that I believe deserves mention, and that is the identity of our heroes.

If you look at almost every society back to the beginning, the identity of the national hero was instrumental in the formation of the national identity.

The hero serves the biggest benefit to the men of the country. The hero was almost always male, and he served as a beacon of example to the men, (especially the youth), in that country.

We have our heroes, our maybe I should say we “had” our heroes? But that “Balkanization” I referred to earlier has taken as much aim at our heroes as it has at our religion and language.

Up until recently, men like Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin were revered in our culture as our founding fathers. They were unique in a historical aspect, and they collectively birthed our nation.

Now fast forward to our current times. Yes, these men are still championed, but their championing has been tied to an element of our society that have been portrayed as the modern day extremists and blockades to progressive movements.

Look at the people who still cite these men as their heroes. For example, the tea party. While my intention isn’t to draw this into an argument about the politics of the tea party, it is intended to highlight how the group can be portrayed in the media and have it directly tied to the heroes they choose to champion.

No longer can someone reference Jefferson as an example for us all, without on some base level being depicted as a backwards thinking antique.

The desire for heroes still exist, and that void has to be filled. So what do we see as a result of all of this? We see the attempt to replace our heroes with the new and acceptable ones.

For example, we see a man like Jefferson get replaced with a man like Mandela. Sure, Mandela led a very mentionable life. But above all, he was not an American.

Does that take away from his achievements? Of course not, at least not on a global level. But championing that man the way he was after his passing does take away from our national identity.

This trend isn’t unique to Mandela, and it has been going on for some time now. Maybe it’s just the conspiracy theorist in me, but take a look back at the people our society has chose to elevate to hero status and look at some common characteristics they all share.

More times than not, they are becoming increasingly female, and even more disturbingly, they are becoming increasingly foreign.

Now this could just be a reflection of our current administrations priorities, but unfortunately, I believe it to be of a much more sinister design.

Hell, yesterday I read at least three twitter post from the President expressing his joy about the 41st anniversary of Roe v. Wade.

This isn’t a shock to anyone, but think about what it does on a more fundamental level. It establishes the decision as a de facto hero in our culture. The hero continues to serve as a beacon for our youth to emulate and our society continues to erode.

Once again… just my two cents.

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Tam the Bam January 23, 2014 at 06:18

Fair enough, Badger, but Private Rigby was actually attacked on his way back from the station, in the street outside a huge Army barracks where he was duty. Most of the civvies who witnessed the attack thought it was a car accident (the killers mounted the sidewalk and ran him down) and the nice black chaps were trying CPR or something.
From the Barracks, answer came there none. Nobody realised he was a squaddie even though he was wearing a “Help For Heroes” teeshirt and had the haircut (vets & casualties charity).
Immediately after the attack, several passers-by stood over Rigby’s body to protect him from further injury. Ingrid Loyau-Kennett, a cub scout leader from Cornwall, disembarked from a passing bus with the intention of rendering first aid, after she saw what she thought was a road accident. On discovering that the victim was dead she engaged one of the assailants in conversation. The man said he was responsible for killing the man on the ground – a British soldier who the attacker claimed had “killed Muslims in Iraq and in Afghanistan”. She asked one of the men to hand over his weapons, but he refused.
Here are some more women giving the naughty boys a gobful, at the scene.
Coppers rolled up 5 mins later, but crapped out because one of the Nigerians had a pistol as well as various shivs, and when the ARU (~=SWAT) team strolled along 14 mins after the attack, the loonies charged them. And got shot. Carefully, and not very much.
You can get a pretty good idea of the banality, confusion and everyday grubbiness of the post-lunchtime event here (loads of pics)
The nutbags were “Christian” Nigerians raised as Londoners, who apostasized to Wahhabi-style terrorism after a brief career as addicts and petty criminals.
Same old same old, UK is full of these cretins.
And, as usual, things went off the rails as a result of the intelligence services playing fast and loose with known “faces” for their own spooky, occult games. After all, it’s only the peasants who get killed when things go awry.

But one thing the State is very, very hot on is any form of self-organizing or militancy amoung the native proles. ‘Sensitive’ areas would have been immediately and almost undetectably saturated with all sorts of Big Stick agencies, and if anything had kicked off I doubt they’d have gone to the bother of Reading the Riot Act before wading in, given the example of dilatory responses which resulted in the celebrated London Riots less than 2 years previously.
A mass uprising against muslims in general wouldn’t have made any sense in this context, the perps were (a) “local” lads with local accents (b) mad as a .. a very mad thing and (c) black, not beige.
After all, every Russian in Mass. wasn’t lynched after the Chechen Brothers Tsarnaev (equally mad) committed their street atrocity, were they?

But when things are a bit more clearcut, things do start to move “We’ll set about you, that’s it”.

And Sharia “courts” are of absolutely no consequence, not recognized by anyone except the savages who defer to them. A bunch of old geezers sitting round in a room above a balti shop, picking their noses and mumbling in Foreign? Must be havin’ a larrf. They’re on the same level as the witch doctors “traditional healers” who cater to the needs of whichever other onshored mob of cavemen require .. I dunno, exorcisms and infibulation, or human body parts for their “medicine”.

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Anonymous January 23, 2014 at 06:44

Finns refused to take part in the siege of Leningrad, even though the Germans demanded them to.

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Aaron January 23, 2014 at 06:45

I’ve spent a good hour on youtube reviewing actual footage of the Winter War and made for entertainment re-enactments of the war from different sources. Based on what I viewed (a non-scholarly viewing) I did not see women directly involved in the fighting (though it most likely dig occur to some limited degree). Rather I saw images of the women cooking, knitting gloves, packing supplies, and writing poetry for the Finish men. As usual, it appeared that it was us men who did the fighting and dying. An egalitarian society to a point I guess. The point being nothing beyond if it is an inconvenience to women.

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continent January 23, 2014 at 17:03

@ revver
Wonnder why TV History/Militaty Channels etc don’t mention Soviet=Germany non aggression pact, only Germany’s invasion of Poland as the start of WWII?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov

Molotov was the principal Soviet signatory of the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact of 1939 (also known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), whose most important provisions were added in the form of a secret protocol that stipulated an invasion of Poland and partition of its territory between Germany and the Soviet Union

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gender foreigner January 23, 2014 at 18:12

Dear Anonymous January 23, 2014 at 06:44:
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Finns refused to take part in the siege of Leningrad, even though the Germans demanded them to.
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Good point, thanks for it. The above point must be seen as a sequestering of KIND of response and participation as per Nazi ideological goals to be achieved by raw force (the ELIMINATION of Communism Central).

As per the CONSTRUCTION of Nazi ideological goals, it must be kept in mind that the women of Finland PRESSED HARD for Eugenics and achieved a wide-spread apex of such things AFTER THE WAR HAD ENDED IN 1945.

That’s right. AFTER the war, without any external impetus, and on pure Finnish (mostly feminine) will, the administration of Eugenic goals peaked in Finland.

The cost of so doing was to those who administering, quite low. It was those who were objects of its administration that the locus of cost was born.

Dear Aaron January 23, 2014 at 06:45:

Ditto for sure, and Women’s Sweden has conscription against men and not women. Same old, same old.

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Lurker January 24, 2014 at 00:39

@Mike

To be honest, heros are dead in this era of cynicism and technology. First off, one of the characteristics that all heros share is that are believed to be of high moral character that is impossible for most people to obtain. Well, in this era, everybody is looking for the skeletons in the hero’s closet. For example, Martin Luther King Jr, one of the most revered people in the liberal parthenon. I think that in a few years when Dr. King’s dirty secrets are finally let out of the closet . He’ll be regarded in the same veins as Thomas Jeffersion. A hypocritic who should be disregarded.

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Dire Badger January 24, 2014 at 01:03

@Tam the Bam:

As you said, Fair enough. Kinda wish the protesters had gotten to the Van holding them men, though.

I wasn’t talking about mass spontaneous uprisings, though… that has always been, and will always be, a Myth. I am talking about individuals or very small groups.

Like I said, reparations may be horrible, but they work… I was using the example of the cut-up man as that, an example. There are numerous other incidents where Muslims in london have been excused of rather brutal crimes (I didn’t understand that violently forcing a 12 year old to have sex was a crime because I went to school at a muslim school) as well as the antics of rape gangs.

I know that you want to say ‘all muslims do not do what the radical muslims do’, but a responsible human being realizes that maintaining ties to a SOCIAL group that commits atrocities is the SAME as sponsoring those atrocities. That is why a woman cannot say “I am a feminist but…”. simply by calling herself a feminist, she has admitted that she condones the activities of other feminists.

When my navy was forced to do things that are antithetical to ethical conduct, I ended up leaving the military… not because I wavered in my vow to ‘protect the United states against all enemies, foreign and domestic’ (I still hold that vow) but because the US military was trying to force me to violate the very vows I swore. If I was catholic, and the catholic religion was doing something repugnant, like committing genocide (hypothetically) I would not longer call myself a catholic. I would not observe what they observe, and I would not support them in any way. This is also why, even though I often vote republican, I refuse to call myself a republican… because my views do not match theirs, and they often do things that I find repugnant and frankly anti-republican.

Frankly, no offense, your country has become everything foretold by George Orwell. every move is monitored by video cameras. Every citizen is a disposable drone. People are not allowed to think for, speak for, or defend themselves. IMO Londonistan has become the new and great evil empire… who’s evil is being closely followed and copied by the tyranny the USA is becoming to it’s own people. Your government is leading the world in privacy invasion, thought crime, and turning their own citizens into slaves, and this model is being closely followed, often with even greater success, by other northern and western european countries… the feudalism was never really extinguished, and is coming back in forth, albeit headed by men in suits and ties rather than armor.

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IamMarktoo January 24, 2014 at 05:18

Interesting piece. Similar in some ways to what is happening now in defence of the community. See the short video on this page
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2014/01/video-my-right-to-self-defend.html?m=1

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Little John January 24, 2014 at 09:11

Yes, the U.S. Empire is too big, diverse, and corrupt to engender loyalty anymore. That’s why I’m a Southern nationalist. Corrupted though we are, we Southerners still have a sense of common identity and heritage. My motto: If at first you don’t secede, try, try again.

Check out: http://www.southernnationalist.com

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Son of Finnish Parents January 25, 2014 at 22:23

Aaron, I must disagree with what you wrote:
“I’ve spent a good hour on youtube reviewing actual footage of the Winter War and made for entertainment re-enactments of the war from different sources. Based on what I viewed (a non-scholarly viewing) I did not see women directly involved in the fighting (though it most likely dig occur to some limited degree). Rather I saw images of the women cooking, knitting gloves, packing supplies, and writing poetry for the Finish men. As usual, it appeared that it was us men who did the fighting and dying. An egalitarian society to a point I guess. The point being nothing beyond if it is an inconvenience to women.”
The women of Finland who served as “Lotta” volunteers not only did all the tasks that you outlined above, but they also prepared the corpses of fallen Finnish soldiers for burial back home, and they cared for the wounded as nurses. My parents were both born in Finland and my mother lost her home in the Winter War and became a refugee. My father was too young to fight in that war, but he did serve in the Continuation War that followed (1941-44) as an artilleryman. My mother died last July at age 88 and she was honored at her graveside by two bemedaled representatives of the Finnish War Veterans in America who made speeches in her honor while a Finnish state flag was draped over her coffin – all because during the war she had served her country as an interpreter between the Finnish Army and Russian prisoners of war, and also on the administrative staff of a military hospital. She rode the trains with a soldier’s pass and was officially regarded by the Finnish Government as a war veteran. My father is still alive at age 92 and going strong, but when his time comes to leave this earth I’ll be there standing by his flag-draped coffin while the old veterans honor him for his service in his long-ago youth. Anyway, my tough old father, who is a real “man’s man” and who I will always look up to as my hero and try to emulate, has always been very adamant about the necessity to honor the women of Finland for their service during the war. If he says it should be so, then it should be so, and I doubt that any of us is man enough to tell him he is wrong (which he isn’t). I saw a Finnish TV docudrama about that war once, where the Finnish “Lotta” nurses were lying on top of the wounded soldiers in their care during an air raid, protecting them with their own bodies – how much more heroic can anyone be than that? The men and women of that generation of Finns were very tough people, and I am very proud to come from that.

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Mary Minshall January 26, 2014 at 12:25

Roy, you have clearly demonstrated that your family are heroes and heroines of the highest caliber and courage. The role of women in war against an invading enemy of one’s country as was the Winter War in Finland extends far beyond the stay-at-homes who do token duties to make themselves feel good. Your mother deserved all the honors she earned for her bravery. I have always admired and respected the Finns and am proud to have you as a friend.

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Son of Finnish Parents January 26, 2014 at 15:36

Thank you Mary – your words mean a lot to me.

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gender foreigner January 26, 2014 at 16:40

Dear Son of Finnish Parents January 25, 2014 at 22:23:
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Aaron, I must disagree with what you wrote:
“I’ve spent a good hour on youtube reviewing actual footage of the Winter War and made for entertainment re-enactments of the war from different sources. Based on what I viewed (a non-scholarly viewing) I did not see women directly involved in the fighting (though it most likely dig occur to some limited degree). Rather I saw images of the women cooking, knitting gloves, packing supplies, and writing poetry for the Finish men. As usual, it appeared that it was us men who did the fighting and dying. An egalitarian society to a point I guess. The point being nothing beyond if it is an inconvenience to women.”
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Thank you for your comments on the above. You did make a contribution to the recognition of truth. Aaron’s points remain by way of order of magnitude, however. The contribution of the men to the fighting of the Soviet threat to Finland outstripped the contribution of the women to the Soviet threat to Finland.

What the women did WAS laudable, but, as usual, SECONDARY to what the men did. As ALWAYS, men were NUMBER ONE and women were NUMBER TWO. The evidence was forthcoming.

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realist January 26, 2014 at 17:00

gender foreigner, do you really think that Finnish men would have preferred that their women – sisters, wives and neighborhood girls – were being blown up in the trenches? Small peoples who have to preserve their populations and for whom solidarity between sexes is quite important would find even the thought of that plain idiotic.

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gender foreigner January 26, 2014 at 19:41

Dear realist January 26, 2014 at 17:00:

That is only to particularize one of the reasons why men always play number one and women always play number two in the game of providing protection. As such, you exercise agreement with the statement of claim only in the guise of opposition.

In providing protection, men are number one, same old, same old; and in providing protection, women are number two, same old, same old.

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Women lose always January 27, 2014 at 01:11

In the biggest newpaper of Finland there was an article, where old women complained about inequality in Finland, they are victims of the war, because so many Finnish men died. These women widowed or could not get an husband after the war because of the imbalance of sexes. In the Winter War were losses about 27 000, after it about 68 000 men. Totally 95 000.
The amount of men in the Winter War was 330 000 – 360 000. A little bigger in the war after that. So the the total losses in dead were about 20 % of forces in the field. Huge amount also wounded , part of them physically and mentally, incapable to return working life.

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Son of Finnish Parents January 30, 2014 at 17:47

Here is a good documentary about the Winter War, made by an American with no personal connection with that conflict but who was interested enough in in it to create this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qd5roKfgqo – the old Karelian refugee woman, Eeva Kilpi, reminds me very much of my late mother. My mother also used to speak of how wonderful her childhood in Karelia was, exactly as Eeva does here with her words about the sunny days and the lilacs in bloom. Rest in peace and Eternal Memory to you, Mom! Anyway, whenever I view this documentary I am reminded that my people EARNED the right to exist as a nation through brutal Darwinian struggle. As Eeva says, we Finns fought like wild animals defending their nests.

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Son of Finnish Parents January 30, 2014 at 18:00

And here is a good Finnish documentary (with English subtitles) about the conflict that created Finland, the War of Independence, also known as the Finnish Civil War of 1918, when the Finnish Reds and Whites slaughtered each other (over 30,000 died out of a nation of 4 million):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd6pSZvN_Ro – the Whites won that conflict.

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Son of Finnish Parents January 30, 2014 at 18:08

For all you fans of manly, warlike drinking songs, Finnish singer William Korwenkoski does a great rendition of a Finnish folk-song from the time of my grandparents, describing the exploits of the legendary 19th-centrury knife-fighters from Pohjanmaa (Ostrobothnia) province from the west coast of Finland, Antti Isontalo and his friends Rannanjarvi and Pukkila: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwmwxLfefk&feature=endscreen&NR=1.
One of the commentators below the video says that in his later years (after he was released from prison) Antti married a young wife. Finland has survived through the centuries because of guys like this. As Friedrich Nietzsche said, “In times of peace, the warlike man attacks himself.” My translation of the lyrics:

Isontalo’s Antti and Rannanjarvi were talking together. (2x)
You go kill the ugly sheriff of Kauhava and I’ll wed [or fuck] his beautiful widow. (2x)
Isoo [Big]-Antti was the first and Rannanjärvi was the second. (2x)
Pukkila’s Jaska from Kauhava was the third and of the same type. (2x)
First we smashed the gate and then the walls. (2x)
Isoo-Antti went ahead first, he who was the biggest of the group. (2x)
Isoo-Antti’s irons [in prison] weighed 104 nails [whatever that means]. (2x)
An iron bar was bent around Isoo-Antti’s neck. (2x)
Isoo-Antti at the gate to the prison lifted up his pants (2x).
[Following words are unclear to me] In my backpack is a load of puukko-knives, as in my home-town of Harma (2x)
You must not sing of Rannanjarvi, for Rannanjarvi has died [he was stabbed to death]. (2x)
Onto Rannanjarvi’s grave a marble stone has been brought. (2x)

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