Cultural Secession

by W.F. Price on January 13, 2014

As I look at what passes for “mainstream” opinion in major media outlets and approved cultural channels, I find myself starting to seriously question whether it will ever be possible to find any common ground, or even engage them at all. It’s almost as though they live in an entirely different country and speak a different language. Their values, religion, and sense of normalcy simply don’t match up. I don’t think I’m alone in this; it’s pretty clear that wide swaths of the US are occupied by people who can’t relate to the urban metaculture that dominates the narrative.

While writing and publishing articles for this site, it was my intention to exert some influence, limited as it may have been, on this prevailing narrative. That is, after all, the conventional route one takes to effect change. It is commonly thought that in this country, with a democratic political system and free press, it is possible for dedicated, independent actors to make a difference through perseverence and some ability.

However, as I gain some perspective on history and society, I’m starting to doubt this is true. On some reflection, it seems to me that these independent actors and their achievements were products of their time rather than the other way around. Barack Obama, for example, is not a great man who willed himself into power to change the world to suit his image, but rather a part of a collective vision, thrust into power by the aspirations and beliefs of millions. Nor is he an agent of change so much as the culmination of it; he is the crown on the head rather than the boots on the ground.

But every dream comes to an end, and this end is characterized by the cultural shift that inevitably occurs in the restless hearts of the people who, being mortal, strive for their own place in the sun as they come of age. This being the case, I wonder whether there’s much point in trying to work within the system now, or to fight it. Instead, I think the right way to go is to abandon it and move on to what is springing up in its place.

Jack Donovan has advocated this approach (with his own twist on it), and I’ve always paid attention to him. The emphasis on the “paleo” lifestyle that many young men have adopted strikes me as a statement rejecting the dominant culture, as does the movement toward psychosexual realism (i.e. Game).

One of the most remarkable sites (and most popular) that I have come across that embodies rejection of the narrative is The Art of Manliness. I used to think the site was a generally positive, but not particularly consequential, place for young men to explore masculinity in a healthy but not raw, extreme manner. However, I’ve since come to see it as one of the most profoundly subversive sites online from a “Cathedral” perspective. Site owner and author Brett McKay, rather than attempting to work within or against the narrative, brazenly bypassed it, creating an enormous online presence with how-to and advice articles that flatly ignore the holy tenets of contemporary discourse. His approach, ultimately, will have a far more profound cultural effect than my own.

So how did Mr. McKay do it? I think it helped a great deal that he lives in Oklahoma, and was a cultural outsider to begin with. Many of the urban folk among us – myself included – often forget that there’s another world out there. A world where your car won’t be vandalized if it has a Republican bumper sticker, there are no “Pride” victory marches, you don’t have to lie about your beliefs to keep your job and neighbors actually talk to each other. We tend to think the narrative is all-pervasive, and sometimes it affects our perspective. For McKay, on the other hand, it is relatively easy to ignore, and bypassing it probably seemed not only natural, but entirely plausible and even more convenient.

However, we don’t all have to live in suburban Oklahoma to “secede,” and in fact we may have little choice no matter where we are. The logic of the narrative will eventually shove out even the most supplicating of us because – let’s face it – there really is no place for middle or working class white men in their vision of the future. Their vision is fundamentally similar to many Latin American countries, wherein a small, white, technocratic elite rules over an ethnically (and possibly linguistically) distinct plebeian mass. California is already halfway there.

So at this point, I’m not sure it’s worth the effort fighting the narrative any longer. Instead, I’d counsel men to do what they can to ignore it and bypass it wherever possible. This alternate culture will grow, swelled with recruits and racial and class refugees from the coastal bastions of the narrative. Someday, it may even surpass its rival in strength. However, until we adopt not only an attitude, but the actual practice, of cultural secession, it will be a painfully slow process.

{ 83 comments… read them below or add one }

Jay R January 13, 2014 at 13:42

Bill,

Truth must be spoken to power, if only to promulgate the language necessary for others to formulate coherent thoughts in opposition.

One of Big Feminism’s greatest accomplishments is depriving its opponents of the vocabulary necessary to resist the propoganda; control the terms and you control the argument — or lack thereof.

Those, such as yourself, who are capable of articulating truth are indispensable. Of course, all must rest from their endeavors on occasion…

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Anon January 13, 2014 at 13:54

Sovereign Self Determination …

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geographybeefinalisthimself January 13, 2014 at 14:14

“As I look at what passes for “mainstream” opinion in major media outlets and approved cultural channels, I find myself starting to seriously question whether it will ever be to find any common ground, or even engage them at all.”

Stop questioning right there. (You omitted an adjective after “be,” so if you meant “possible,” I’ll answer your question.)

No, it will never be possible to find any common ground with people in cities in blue states. Remember, liberals talk a good game about tolerance and diversity, but they show neither one when it comes to an opposing opinion, despite any protestation to the contrary they may make. Although I live north of NYC, I am ashamed of pretty much everything that comes out of every publication from that city as I am guilty by association of living in the same state.

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W.F. Price January 13, 2014 at 14:24

@gbfh

Seattle’s even worse. New Yorkers at least speak their mind on occasion, and can dissent politically without serious fear of physical assault. Inside Seattle proper, the atmosphere is so stifling and menacing that nobody dares raise a peep in public. Just a step outside the city, however, there’s a great deal more freedom.

geographybeefinalisthimself January 13, 2014 at 14:33

Wow, that sucks. While I don’t mean to trivialize physical assault due to political disagreement (and I would oppose both a liberal perp assaulting a conservative victim AND a conservative perp assaulting a liberal victim; most liberals would ONLY oppose the latter scenario), I thought there were fewer publications coming out of Seattle.

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W.F. Price January 13, 2014 at 14:46

@gbfh

There are very few publications of any value being produced in Seattle. It is not a culturally or politically sophisticated city. However, there’s an extremely conformist mentality, so publications from “acceptable” organs like NPR and the NYTimes are followed with more attention here than in their places of origin.

Personally, I don’t engage much with residents outside of friends and family — there’s no point. If anything, I’d like to see the incidence of same-sex anal rape decline, but that will be an uphill struggle in this benighted city. Seattle – especially my native neighborhood of Capitol Hill – is the same-sex anal rape capital of the entire Northwest, if not the United States.

cxj January 13, 2014 at 15:31

“Seattle’s even worse. New Yorkers at least speak their mind on occasion, and can dissent politically without serious fear of physical assault.”

LOL @ those liberal Seattle crybabies having the balls to be physically aggressive. Their type whine about video games being too violent and “masculine,” I’d love to see how they handle themselves in a real fight.

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W.F. Price January 13, 2014 at 15:41

@cxj

It isn’t such a joke. When people feel that they are backed up not only by the majority, but by the power structure as well, even the most craven degenerates can become very bold.

Jack Donovan January 13, 2014 at 16:19

Great piece, I just linked to it on Facebook.

Also, maybe it’s just a mild hangover, but after reading your comment that Seattle is the same-sex anal rape capital I am just kind of staring at the screen with a blank look on my face. Like…that’s a thing? Weird.

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W.F. Price January 13, 2014 at 16:31

@Jack Donovan

I’m looking to volunteer at the local Catholic charities so as to give some paternal attention to these boys/young men, most of whom are junkies and homeless young gay men. It’s pretty horrible how they are treated here, and how people don’t take it seriously when they are used like that. Really shameful, and I take it personally as a native.

Charles Martel January 13, 2014 at 17:26

I guess I’m late to this party but I’ve just learned that many of the sites I’ve been visiting over the past few years are elements of what’s becoming known as The Dark Enlightenment. (The Spearhead’s at the center right of the linked graphic).

The core insight of The Dark Enlightenment, at least as I see it, is the recognition that Western Democracy is terminal, with the democratic process now serving to extinguish freedom and self-determination.

There’s no avoiding this fate. All democracies commit suicide. The only questions are how long will it take and how much will it hurt.

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Livingwell January 13, 2014 at 17:52

Jumped the shark Bill. Art of Manliness??? Jack Donovan, yes ;but what’s going on here?

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TFH January 13, 2014 at 17:57

Important point :

For the first 99% of human history, people lived in tribes of 50, and very few (really only young, fit men) could survive in the wilderness without the tribe.

While we now live in a world where death by big cat, starvation, or the elements is not a daily worry, the ‘jungle survivability’ of a person still governs how they react to modern situations.

People who need the tribe to survive (women, the elderly, and weak manginas) will put conformity to groupthink above logic or independent thought. Earning the disapproval of the tribe would have meant death to them, and they still act that way today.

Men who are quite willing to oppose groupthink and the mainstream narrative will usually be men who could survive in the wilderness on their own.

Put another way, the more terrified a person is at the prospect of having to live in the wilderness, alone, for an indefinite period of time, the more they will be those who support redistribition, and let conformity and groupthink decide their political views (and have no problem with their own actions not matching their verbalized political views).

Those who are willing to stand on principle, have a realistic assessment of human nature, and oppose redistribution, also happen to be people (usually youngish men) who are not particularly terrified of surviving in the wilderness on their own…

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epoche* January 13, 2014 at 18:54

I think the only real solution to our problems would be a sort of internal secession. At the end of the day I dont think it is possible to force people to associate with one another who share absolutely nothing in common – culturally, morally or ethically and expecting it to all work out. At some point in the near future I think this will all reach a boiling point as the average white family will have to confront the reality of how much they pay into the system and how much they receive and not being able to reproduce at replacement level. Can these people live next door to women who pay nothing into the system and have multiple bastards (of different ethnicities) and receive thousands back from the state each year come tax time? Its not possible at for such people to live near each other.

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Towgunner January 13, 2014 at 19:05

Another great article Bill, thanks.

Here is the thing – A lot of people are feeling the same way you do.

I go between 1. fully accepting that I WILL leave my home and expatriate within the next 5-6 years to 2. mildly optimistic not just for today but for the future. Realist or wishful thinking or is it wishful thinking or realistic?

Granted, our culture is sick, despotic, incoherent and intolerant. However, what give me pause for optimism is that progressivism is failing! And today, much to our dismay, it is a progressive culture/society/country. But, its failing all around you. How’s the economy, how’s politics, how’s civility, how’s racism, how’s discrimination, how’s stereotyping, how’s intolerance, how’s hate, how’s the family, how’s mom, how’s dad, how’s the grandparents, how’s healthcare, how’s education, how’s the budget, how’s freedom, how’s the constitution, how’s the republic, how’s the military, how’s the veterans, how’s the foreign policy, hows’ the music, how’s the tv and movies, how’s the art, how’s the culture, how’s our sex lives, how are people – they’re on drugs and failing all around you.

This system is failing. Our economy is not growing and it can’t grow without committing robbery of our children and grand children. This is the same economy, which has nicely “evolved” (while under central control) to a point where the most popular consumer items are machines that are just as addictive as drugs and they record everything fucking thing we do reporting it back to a central computer. So just on that basis – FAIL.

I could go on…anyone else, fill in the blanks.

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John Savage January 13, 2014 at 20:19

Articles and comments like these give me hope that the mainstream culture is effete and dying and that a new culture is emerging on the outskirts. The words above reflect my perspective from my remote, rurally isolated mountaintop… from here I can see the lights of the cities around me in the distance… but cannot hear the din of Babel. God is not dead. He lives in the bakcountry.

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W. George January 13, 2014 at 20:39

I think a bigger factor than McKay being from OK, is that he is a Mormon. The LDS Church is one of the last remaining patriarchies in the West. Its priesthood is open to every man, only men hold it, and most women like it that way. Women are raised to be chaste and want to be wives and mothers. If you belong to the Mormon tribe, you can go your whole life barely even knowing feminism exists.

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Eric January 13, 2014 at 23:11

There are dissenting men in the coastal cities, too, and they’re not all white and middle-class. There are even dissenting men attending or graduated from Ivy League universities.

Switch out the frame of The Narrative and claim the zeitgeist. It can be done. They did it. So can we.

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W.F. Price January 13, 2014 at 23:35

There are dissenting men in the coastal cities, too, and they’re not all white and middle-class. There are even dissenting men attending or graduated from Ivy League universities.

I’d hope so — I don’t see why nonwhite men would like the direction we’re headed any more than I do. However, as I see it, the large minority groups in the country, including blacks and Hispanics, already have their own culture and sense of themselves. They don’t really need to secede, because they already have a distinct identity.

As for the coastal types, I am mainly trying to convince them, as I am one myself, and we’re the ones who need to drop the pretense that we’re somehow part of the dominant culture.

Eric January 14, 2014 at 00:14

“However, as I see it, the large minority groups in the country, including blacks and Hispanics, already have their own culture and sense of themselves. They don’t really need to secede, because they already have a distinct identity.”

They have children who’ll grow up here, though. Their children and their children’s children have been and will be marinated in the American education/indoctrination system and popular culture just like white American kids.

The destructive effects of modern social engineering aren’t exclusive to white American men, nor Americans for that matter. The more that non-white American men and their heirs assimilate into modern American society, with their social environment shaped by same, the more their masculine cultural heritage will be replaced in the same way that white masculine cultural heritage has been. Their outlook and problems will align with white American men in the cultural revolt.

Non-white American men especially (see Asians) who’ve internalized the ‘modern minority’ path to strive for American success are finding themselves pushed rapidly into the same cultural trap as white American men.

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Eric January 14, 2014 at 00:15

Excuse me: model minority, not modern minority.

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DCM January 14, 2014 at 02:49

“Charles Martel January 13, 2014 at 17:26
……………………..
All democracies commit suicide.
……”

That’s why the Founders didn’t want a democracy but designed a republic where all were supposed to get a share of power and be able to limit everyone else.
The notion of democracy is what has enabled totalitarian leftists to gradually destroy the republic while using the people they despise to vote them into power. It began with getting rid of property as a qualification to vote.

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Tam the Bam January 14, 2014 at 05:05

@Price: “Inside Seattle proper, the atmosphere is so stifling and menacing that nobody dares raise a peep in public. “

[note to self] never, ever go to fucking Seattle, Tam.
It seems to be a ferocious Judge Dredd police state, where you can be
executed for whittling.
It makes Singapore look like Copenhagen or Amsterdam. And the weather’s as bad as here. No sale.

Bill, could it be made into a Reserve for SJWs and feminists? Y’know, after ..

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epoche* January 14, 2014 at 06:47

As a white male I may even dislike racism and sexism but that is far from asserting that forcing people to associate with one another who share nothing in common is some type of social benefit. I dont think the average white family realizes the unbelievable harm that the doctrine of disparate impact has done to them. Apparently AG Holder wants to apply the doctrine of disparate impact to disciplining school children: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/8/white-house-to-offer-new-rules-school-discipline/?page=all#pagebreak

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W.F. Price January 14, 2014 at 06:59

@Tam

It already is a reserve for feminists. The city really started to become fascist in the 90s under largely lesbian radfem leadership (no kidding — at least one third of the city council was lesbian). I’ve been shot at by the cops here myself. While hanging out in a park after hours drinking some beer with a few guys (yes, I know it’s illegal, but I was 20 and couldn’t hang out in a tavern), we noticed a couple figures sneaking through the bushes toward us. One of the guys I was with had a little sheltie dog, which started running toward the intruders and barking. Next thing I knew, there was a flash and a pop, followed by screaming and yelling (mostly the cops yelling and swearing in anger that they’d been discovered) and people running in all directions. Fortunately, nobody got hit, and nobody got arrested, but all the same it was a pretty surreal thing to be shot at by a cop. I’ve had them pull guns on me on other occasions (most recently in 2008), but that’s the only time they actually opened fire.

Seattle is essentially a right-wing Democrat stronghold that is extremely pro-business and politically correct. As a resident, when I hear the talk about “tolerance” it sounds positively Orwellian, because there’s nothing tolerant about the place. I just thank God it’s only a municipality and subordinate to the state, which is far, far more moderate in character. This is a beautiful part of the world, and an enjoyable place to visit, but I would recommend avoiding the city for the most part. Not because of the danger, but because of the social atmosphere, which is terrible. In the smaller towns and country along the Sound people are much more relaxed and open, and the scenery is even better in a more natural setting.

Oswald Spengler January 14, 2014 at 07:39

“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”

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Anon66 January 14, 2014 at 08:18

I disagree with you that fighting the system is not effective because we really have not tried fighting the system yet. There is a lot of good thought out there, including this site, but very little action. I hope that will change and is starting to change.

I have been reading and commenting on sites like this for 20 years. Back then the prevailing attitude was to engage the system in an informed and polite manner and that we would win because the facts are on our side. At this point I think pretty much everyone on our side realizes this does not work as feminists and their allies do not care about facts or fairness.

One thing we can learn from feminists is that being nasty can be effective. Engage the enemy aggressively. Use their language against them. If men would really get angry things might change.

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Eric January 14, 2014 at 09:02

Anon66,

I agree with you that American Men who are Men of the West should become expert, dynamic activists of the same kind that has relentlessly driven the Left to social/cultural/political/legal victory.

Historical analogy: Arminius.

One such German soldier of fortune, a 25-year-old prince of the Cherusci tribe, was known to the Romans as Arminius. (His tribal name has been lost to history.) He spoke Latin and was familiar with Roman tactics, the kind of man the Romans relied on to help their armies penetrate the lands of the barbarians. For his valor on the field of battle, he had been awarded the rank of knight and the honor of Roman citizenship.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-ambush-that-changed-history-72636736/#ixzz2qOQJSH69

However, I don’t consider Bill’s call to action as an either/or choice with “fighting the system”. The two thrusts can work hand in hand.

Both ways require right-thinking men to be competitive social activists.

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Allan January 14, 2014 at 09:23

Seattle sounds like Minneapolis. Executed for whittling. “The police need more training.” Uh… right. More of the Duluth model.

“If anything, I’d like to see the incidence of same-sex anal rape decline, but that will be an uphill struggle in this benighted city. Seattle – especially my native neighborhood of Capitol Hill – is the same-sex anal rape capital of the entire Northwest, if not the United States.”

I’d like to see that decline too.

But this is weird. If you want to reduce same-sex anal rape, you’ll have to do something besides post links to feminist sites inactive for 9 years. (“Last updated on April 17, 2005.”) They don’t care. BTDT. An accurate, detailed statement of the situation for male victims of “sexual violence” was posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so2V9rzPBgk , crowed over at AvfM, but I don’t see why you, MRAs bring it up, except to score points somehow, how? against feminists who, yes, hate/ignore/can’t see male victims, and yes, deny male victims to score points for their ideology. So what’s your angle here? I never see it.

“I’m looking to volunteer at the local Catholic charities so as to give some paternal attention to these boys/young men, most of whom are junkies and homeless young gay men.”

That population is 10 times the youth shelter capacity here in Minneapolis (recently 5 days below zero). Talking about male sexual victimization got me double takes with homeless youth workers. It’s really prevalent. Still, there’s no money or interest in it and they don’t talk about it since nobody hearing would help them with it. People just defend ideologies and don’t help. Understand what help is, then disclose male sexual abuse and watch what people do.

What ever happened to men being doers? Getting something done?

(from the link)
“Kaylan Fredriks, 24… says that what would really help gay men would be a support group for male rape victims.”

That’s my experience too, repeatedly confirmed but after 3 years, I quit leading the sole group here because no one would help leading and the “rape councilors” at the rape center and social workers upped their attacks to publicly calling me and the attendees sex offenders and placing known offenders into the group. Ideology, not help. It got too dangerous and costly to continue on my own. It’s not like I was going to get hired there to serve this “under served population”. That’s by design. Those are female only jobs.

Good for volunteering for men and boys! Perhaps “paternal attention” will change their lives, but in my experience it’s more complicated. I think “our problems” require collective (group) solutions but men are excluded from our collective institutional groups. An individual effort is not bad though. I hope you’ll write about that though. Seriously, I like your site, and insights, and it’s truthfulness. Good luck to you.

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johnsavage January 14, 2014 at 10:01

RE: Oswald Spengler January 14, 2014 at 07:39

Sir, please cite the source of the beautiful quote.

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Hobgoblin January 14, 2014 at 10:03

Well Written article, and a lot of wisdom in the comments too. Not to detract anything at all from the other posters, but I found TFHs comment about people being terrified of the forest thing particularly insightful. and Price, well,, excellent as always.

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Eric January 14, 2014 at 10:06

Based on “Sam” and context, I’ll guess the quote is from somewhere in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings saga.

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keyster January 14, 2014 at 11:19

Hang on. We were all Millenials once, until we grew up and got jobs and got married and realized getting the politics right matters.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368236/millennials-are-tiring-liberal-failures-chris-beach-alison-howard

The beauty of ObamaCare is that not only does it/will it effect every citizen, but it exposes the Big Government re-distribution narrative in all its glory…and the Orwellian lies and deceit Leftists use to “market” their socialist policies.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/01/14/they-lied

How could the sexy, confident, hip/cool annointed one betray us so? Why didn’t our non-Fox “free” press warn us of what was to come? We believed in the “hope” and “change”. Perhaps next time we shouldn’t listen to such a community organizing charlatan without questioning his true motives, intentions and competence. Perhaps our country should not be led by a President whose only real concern is political calculation first, and country second. We were duped. This won’t happen again for a long time.

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chinesefootsoldier January 14, 2014 at 12:24

It’ll take suffering, and nothing else. The emotion-obsessed, urban metaculture arises whenever a society is too comfortable. Chinese historians often lament the effeminate, treasonous, and bizarrely “academic” attitude of the later Song dynasty (a particularly wealthy era), that despite its enormous population, resources, and technology could not fight off some pastoral tribesmen to the north.

There may not be any Mongol invaders today, but the internal rot is enough to degrade society. Leftists will never face reality until conditions have fallen apart. Some will continue to believe that meaness negates reasoning, and that they can fix the world with love, tolerance, equality, empathy even as their nation crumbles around them. For the people who understand that success, individual or collective, comes from greed, strength, competition, and self-interest, there is only one logical path. To disconnect from the predominantly leftist society, and concentrate ones efforts on ourselves instead of an ungrateful nation.

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Towgunner January 14, 2014 at 12:43

@ Keyster…

Yeah…I think we’re on the same page. As stated above, I’m still torn with a bias of expatriating but the fact that obamacare is such a massive and unmistakable failure, which has in turn highlighted all the other failures gives me optimism. And, to boot, everything is failing to include people of all stripes. We rightfully tremble and gasp knowing that we’re in store for two terms of barry the potus, but, he could very well destroy progressivism. If you ask me the only thing keeping the mass realization that progressivism is a total fraud and failure is the controlled media and education. Indeed, their grip is as tight as ever but both are on the wane.

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Tam the Bam January 14, 2014 at 12:51

“.. drinking some beer with a few guys (yes, I know it’s illegal, but I was 20 and couldn’t hang out in a tavern ..”
Dear God, Bill, in my country that would be an egregious breach of Human Rights.
My lads, and everyone they know, started doing the park thing in their early teens, and nobody gets too worked up about it, except maybe highschool principals trying and failing to divert attention from their own hardcore alcoholism by banging on and on about it, and making examples of the few less worldly kids caught at it.
One memorable episode involved blues and twos to the infirmary, as the silly sod had shared a bottle of whisky with his deathcore band mates right after their first big gig, age fourteen or fifteen. He had ‘flu and had been taking prescribed medication to get him thru the gig. Tripped over a shin-high metal rail in the park on the few hundred yards back to the apartment (it’s always dark here, seems) and was breathalysed as a matter of course by the paramedics. No reportable result, but they could smell it, major official outrage! Me and his mom were more concerned about how close he came to stoving his head in. Luckily the guitar on his back survived the trip to the deck unharmed, still plays it. And mom has sent either of them to the store for the odd bottle of wine, once they passed eighteen and six foot plus (unlike her). Pubs are way too expensive for kids tho’. Old men too, come to that.
It’s our culture, innit?

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johnsavage January 14, 2014 at 13:00

RE: Oswald Spengler January 14, 2014 at 07:39

Sir, please cite the source of the beautiful quote.

Found it. Courtesy of Good Reads and an internet search.

from, J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

The site uses the word tower instead of tor, but given my situation upon a rocky crag on high, I like the word tor better…

So many good books, so little wisdom in greater society…

As for TFH’s comments about people being terrified of outsiders, the forest, the natural world, etc. … appropriately enough, one of the biggest issues I have in dating is when women find out how I live – they are horrified. “Where is the nearest hospital/mall/police department/ etc.? Aren’t you afraid of mountain lions? High winds? Being a homesteader sounds like slavery… Aren’t you lonely out there all by yourself in the forest? Are you one of those militia types that we hear about?” blah, blah blah… Such questions don’t yield a date nor even a callback. Next!

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Tam the Bam January 14, 2014 at 13:10

@cfs: “.. comes from greed, strength, competition, and self-interest ..”
O yeah I remember, we used to have that over here too.
It was a quaint old tradition, and we called it “Ambition”. It was a lotta fun. But terribly unfair on the differently-talented. Seems to have been abolished.

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chinesefootsoldier January 14, 2014 at 13:14

About nonwhite men and resistance:

It’s mostly a pipe dream. Most nonwhite guys support liberalism and social justice witchhunts because those things serve their own ethnic interests, while also being weapons aimed primarily at their racial/tribal rival, white guys. Many do this innocently, genuinely believing that they’re morally superior and simply “fighting the racists”. Some do it knowingly for the sake of competition, confident that the same weapon would not be turned on them, and even if it were, they would still have a shield of minority victimhood to hide behind.

In either case, should the same level of scrutiny, standards and condemnation be directed a nonwhite group, the response will be resistance and resentment, not acceptance or solidarity.

For instance, when I meet indignant “anti-racist” Asians, I ask them how they would feel if the same standards were applied towards Asians. Would you like China/Korea/Japan to be filled with multicultural immigrants, calling you racist and privileged all the time? Their answers are always as follows:

-Insinuate that I’m a race traitor for proposing the scenario
-Change the subject (we’re dealing with an AMERICAN problem, Asian history is different, etc)
-Weak agreement (in order not to sound like a hypocrite)
-Defiant agreement (in order to contradict me out of anger)

I have never heard ONCE where these people responded positively, happy to adopt those ideals when their own race/ethnic group stood to lose from them. Like I’ve said, it’s easy to preach love and tolerance… when you’re a minority who’ll benefit from them.

Those who actually resist fall into two camps.

1. People who favor whites, white culture etc. Call them traitors, assimilated, whitewashed, Uncle Toms, whatever. These folks are in the minority.
2. People who realize that leftism could be turned on our own people in the future, and should not be supported even if it benefits us now. These folks are in the extreme minority.

In other words, politics is still equatable with demographics, so it’s still mostly an everybody-vs-whitey world. In order to shatter the left wing coalition, there needs to be a large enough wedge issue. Feminism might be one such issue, but that’s being optimistic.

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W.F. Price January 14, 2014 at 13:26

An accurate, detailed statement of the situation for male victims of “sexual violence” was posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so2V9rzPBgk , crowed over at AvfM, but I don’t see why you, MRAs bring it up, except to score points somehow, how? against feminists who, yes, hate/ignore/can’t see male victims, and yes, deny male victims to score points for their ideology. So what’s your angle here? I never see it.

-Alan

Well, like I said, it happens a lot in my native neighborhood. It’s “up close and personal” in that way, and it’s shameful, especially for a guy who was raised Catholic and saw the absolute disregard the elites displayed toward the practice when perpetrated by their cronies. There was one priest who was raping boys – scores of them – for years right under everyone’s nose, and it was ignored. Not only by the church, mind you — he was a favorite of the well-heeled “social justice” types, and they must have known what was going on. In fact, they didn’t pay any attention to the problem at all until people started getting killed for it.

So, like with this site, I don’t have so much of an “angle,” but pretty sincere feelings about it. It ranks up there along with wrecking families for power and profit as one of the defining evils of our time.

Harcomas January 14, 2014 at 15:58

Any man who calls himself a Christian cannot tolerate a known Satanist in their ranks.

When men care nothing for God or His laws, then God allows the devil to fool men. He allows Satanists to join with other men in the fight against feminism.

God knows all. And in due course, He will punish those who embrace evil to fight other evils.

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joeb January 14, 2014 at 16:40

I kind of feel like we , all of us in the Mra coined the Phrase ” enjoy the decline ” But we look up now and see just what the decline looks like and I would kind of like to see it hedged off. It was all much easier when the liberals where our enthusiastic progressive friends .
Now that they shown the discouraging face of Nihilism and just plain dickism its becomes self evident that there is not much difference between any politicians .
I don’t know if I sense a little defeatism in your outlook or a renewed vigor to redefine the boundaries of what You W.F Price can achieve .
I can’t say anybody would hold you as erant or wrong if you Just wanted to slip into The blue pill for awhile and give Bill a chance to be successful .
Your really talented Bill and we all know that with a greater success you would have to bend to the will of the Machine , And it will reward you . Nothing wrong with that .
I find it hard to believe that the Mainstream media hasn’t made offers already .I just wonder If you can write that campbell’s tomato soup bland writing . you know, once you been to Paris .
Sometimes stronger language is needed , Sometimes more passive . I personally think we are in the ,In your face ,ready to start punching phase . Just sorry I got Old during the process .

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Walhaz January 14, 2014 at 17:29

@ KEYSTER “We were millennials once, until we grew up and got jobs and got married and realized getting the politics right matters.”

As a millennial myself, I’m glad that my (mostly) wuss generation is getting smacked with reality, it’s been happening for a few years. We’re not doing a good job dealing with it, likely because of how pampered we were while growing up; this is going to be a problem for a long time.

This plays into cultural secession – which is something I started to practice in my teens, and it’s worked out fairly well, so far.

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revver January 14, 2014 at 18:15

Leftist infiltration is rampant in the RC church. An ex-Catholic man once told he stopped going to church ever since one of Ortega’s goons was invited to talk. He basically rambled on and on how evil Reagan was for arming the contras.

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gender foreigner January 14, 2014 at 18:32

Dear Jack Donovan January 13, 2014 at 16:19:

As a straight man, I have a request that you particularize some of your insight as to the doings/nondoings of the homosexual community. Would you please inform the readers of The Spearhead of various patterns and nonpatterns in that community, especially from an MRA perspective?

We straight men need to be informed about the above so that we may know how to deal with the homosexual manginas who are so mainstream…

I look forward to your response, and I thank you in advance for what I would anticipate.

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Brando's Drinking Habit January 14, 2014 at 18:46

“There really is no place for middle or working class white men in their vision of the future.”

A truer sentence can not be written.

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GT66 January 14, 2014 at 20:38

“His approach, ultimately, will have a far more profound cultural effect than my own.”

Don’t sell yourself short, my friend. You have effect on the culture. It just doesn’t show up in our new choice of shoes or newly acquired knowledge on how to wear a tuxedo.

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FTLOTBP January 14, 2014 at 22:15

We must have cultural secession. Succeeding with this will be a form of victory. The leviathan won’t die in our lifetimes more than likely (although it has severely weakened already – it just has a long way to go), so you must withdraw to live and fight again another day.
We must withdraw from:
- feminist churches
- feminist countries
-feminist schools
-feminist media
Etc.
All that feminism built was created by robbing and enslaving men. Resist evil.
The West has declined severely in just the last 13 years. (9/11 seems to be a good marker for decline, since the police state really ramped up then, and economic troubles came not too long after.)
I felt like a stranger in my own country, so I left once and will be living around the world for much of my future I think. Being outside the femisphere is a breath of fresh air to say the least.

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Eric January 14, 2014 at 22:49

chinesefootsoldier: “In order to shatter the left wing coalition, there needs to be a large enough wedge issue. Feminism might be one such issue, but that’s being optimistic.”

You’re perceptive.

Resisting the feminists is a viable way to unite American men because the feminists are attacking us equally in the places where we all hurt the most. I can be optimistic because exploiting this cause to unite American men hasn’t been tried – so it hasn’t failed.

The first step is becoming social activists capable of competing with the leftists in their own game, as per Anon66′s call to action. Then start recruiting the non-white American men who have seen the light, though they may be in the minority at the start, and grow from there.

As opposed to multicultural atomization, you don’t need to analogize to multicultural atomization in Asia for this cause. Versus feminism, basic concepts of self and family and ambitions are threatened where we stand as men now, in America. It’s one thing to accept a bribe to sell out white America for self-benefit; it’s a very different thing to accept a bribe to sell out your essential masculinity.

chinesefootsoldier: “People who realize that leftism could be turned on our own people in the future, and should not be supported even if it benefits us now.”

The lessons do need to be learned that leftism in application actually is adversarial client advocacy, not principled social reform, and in the long term, leftism will take down all Americans, not just white men.

Uniting men in resisting feminism can be the gateway to teach that nation-saving lesson given that feminism is just one head of the hydra of leftism.

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The Other Jim January 14, 2014 at 23:39

@chinesefootsoldier

“About nonwhite men and resistance:

It’s mostly a pipe dream. Most nonwhite guys support liberalism and social justice witchhunts because those things serve their own ethnic interests, while also being weapons aimed primarily at their racial/tribal rival, white guys. Many do this innocently, genuinely believing that they’re morally superior and simply “fighting the racists”.

When I look at the various groups that comprise the Democrat voting base I see they have little, if anything in common, ideologically speaking. I mean what do the Democratic voting demographics of Gays, Feminists, and Muslims have in common? Nothing. Yet, one must remember that most couples stay together because of what they both “love”-each other, their children, etc. However, there are a few couples that stay together because of what they both “hate”. In this case, it is a shared hatred of whites and American culture that keeps all of the various “tribes” with their different interests together.

I’ve used this example before but Michel Foucault is an telling example. He was a hard-core Communist philosopher and inveterate homosexual. However, when the Iranian Revolution exploded Foucault flew to Iran, and became just enamored of the Ayatollah Khomeini and his followers. Foucault really saw that Islamic Fundamentalism was something the Left should embrace.

That Foucault could embrace a ideological movement that mandated the execution of homosexuals was always something that puzzled me. He might as well have been a Jew for Hitler.(Yes, I violated Godwin’s law.) Until I saw the commonality of “hate” between the Left and Islam.

You see, what both have in common is both hate Judeo-Christian Western Civilization which binds them together and blinds the Left from all of the huge ideological differences between it and Islam. It’s like the old maxim: The Enemy(Islam) of my Enemy(Western Civilization) is my friend.

Yet, the Left hasn’t considered an alternative to that maxim:
The Enemy of my Enemy might be my Enemy too…

“Some do it knowingly for the sake of competition, confident that the same weapon would not be turned on them, and even if it were, they would still have a shield of minority victimhood to hide behind. ”

“Dictators ride to and fro on tigers from which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry.” W. Churchill.

Also, it’s why I always remind Asians of various sorts that it was a Democrat President with a Democrat supermajority in the House and Senate that sent 120,000+ of their fellow Americans to concentration camps merely for having the misfortune of being the same ethnicity that attacked the US on December 7th, 1941.

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Eric January 15, 2014 at 01:23

The Other Jim,

Among minorities, Asian Americans are the low-hanging fruit for the Right to recruit generally and for a men’s anti-feminist movement to recruit specifically.

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Harcomas January 15, 2014 at 01:39

Leftist infiltration is rampant in the RC church.

Heresy had been rampant long before Vatican II was convened in 1962. Vatican II effectively destroyed the RC church. The church today (i.e. the V-2 sect) is a hollowed-out remnant, which no Catholic should attend. The promotion of heresy, combined with the lax attitude of the Vatican towards homosexuality and abortion, have ruined countless souls.

We must fight against this lax attitude ourselves, which Satan exploits to further poison our souls. It is a grave mistake for an anti-feminist movement to accepts homosexuals as allies, especially those who have embraced the enemy of God. The RC church was destroyed by the Vatican’s acceptance of heresies widely viewed as harmless. Similarly, men fighting for a good cause destroy their souls by accepting mortal sin like homosexuality in their ranks.

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greyghost January 15, 2014 at 02:25

Tommy Sotomayor is a black man that has seceded from African American culture. He loves black men but is calling out the foolish culture. he uses the term white synonymously with government. As a non manosphere type he has feminism nailed and how it is used on the black community.

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Walhaz January 15, 2014 at 02:45

THE OTHER JIM : “Foucault really saw that Islamic fundamentalism was something the west should embrace. That Foucault could embrace an ideological movement that mandated the execution of homosexuals was always something that puzzled me.”

The good news is few people in the American far left can afford to be as stupid as Foucault was; the Euro left is one thing, but the American left is another.

As long as the Koran thumpers practice the death penalty, hate gays, and brutalize women, the US leftists will have to dislike them. Or at least pretend to….Ha-ha.

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Towgunner January 15, 2014 at 06:26

@ Brando:

“There really is no place for middle or working class white men in their vision of the future.”

A truer sentence can not be written.

But there is no future without middle or working class white men…or men in general.

P.S. Not to deny that the brunt end of the shitstick is aimed squarely on white men, but in fairness, men of all stripes are suffering too.

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Charles Martel January 15, 2014 at 08:40

OT: NYT runs an Op-Ed hit piece on life in the Bakken oil fields.

Their takeaway – “Jonnie’s story calls into question whether hard work and courage can eventually bring a decent living in contemporary America — a longstanding promise this nation makes to its citizens. As it happens, we can’t all be winners. Not even in a boomtown.”

Here’s the twist. Jonnie is a WOMAN. That’s right, the NYT criticizes life in North Dakota (as you do if you’re a NYC DWL) by profiling the life of a 38 year old single woman.

This little vignette captures everything that’s wrong with the USA. A feminist-brainwashed (probably) childless woman struggles to do a man’s job in the oil fields. While ignoring her unpaid student loans in some useless subject. As she and her sisters take jobs from the men who would have worked to support her and her children had she not decided to be her own husband.

Assuming Jonnie’s straight, her window of opportunity to be a woman has just about closed.

And as usual this is men’s fault. “Her loneliness is magnified by a desolate landscape that’s dominated by men.”

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Dire Badger January 15, 2014 at 09:06

To: All the Manginas, Beta providers, Softheads, Nerds, and White Knights:
From: The Rakes, Cads, Bastards, Con artists, Pimps, and Rapists:

We would like to congratulate you on your recent embrace of Liberal Feminism and it’s philosophy of unlimited free choice, zero responsibility, and enforced egalitarianism.

See, You know women make irresponsible decisions, and we know women make irresponsible decisions. For thousands of years, you and yours have held in place a system that limited the advantage we could take of that fact, this foolish social construct called ‘marriage’ and ‘patriarchial society’. We have had to skirt around the outside of polite society, barely able to make inroads past the protections irate and legally-entitled men weer able to put in place to separate us from our natural prey.

We had a brief victory in london around the 1600′s, but eventually that man-woman Elizabeth managed to put a stop to it. Of course, the rampant child molesting, near-universal spread of STD’s, and an almost 40% prostitute rate among girls over 8 years old had to stop when that cold cunt reinstituted patriarchial rule.

But due to a recent resurgence of ‘grrl powrr’, our power is growing by leaps and bounds. Gone are the days when ‘marriage’ was protection from being accosted. gone is the church, who successfully hounded us for centuries. Gone are the men that protect their women from the likes of us. Gone is almost all of the VD that limited our actions, and gone is the male financial oversight that prevented us from taking women to the cleaners.

This foolish insistence that men and women are somehow ‘identical’ despite incredibly obvious differences that anyone can see is one of the greatest and most amazing cons most of us have seen in our lifetimes. To lie so obviously, so blatantly, so unapologetically, and then have it believed despite blaring proof to the contrary, is a lie so artistic, so unbelievable, that I suspect in a hundred years people (If there’s anyone left after WE get through with it!) will think their history books are mistaken. And destroying families and self-defense? That’s an absolute masterstroke! It’s as if the whole culture is just begging us to rip their guts out.

But, this con has paved our way for us… we are more respectable, wealthier, and have more power than ever before in history… if we are very, very lucky, in three years we will have a woman president! Imagine that… Now every girl will think she isn’t easy prey for us.

So, from those of us who professionally prey on women and children to you, their erstwhile and now self-castrated protectors, we have one simple word to say:
Thanks.

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Dire Badger January 15, 2014 at 09:11

@Eric-

As Uncle Bern says, “trying to pretend that feminism and the MRA isn’t a left-right issue is sheer foolishness’

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joeb January 15, 2014 at 11:07

Here,s what it looks like these menfems recruit throw civil religion in state approved Churches to push Gender studies in Church and state as one in an alliance against masculinity . for 20 $ you can take this course ,Given buy menstoppingviolence .org . Most likely a government Think Tank . Project
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncdsv.org%2Fimages%2FMSV_CommunityAccountabilityModelMen%27sVAW.pdf&ei=8M_WUoHeA4abygHX14D4BQ&usg=AFQjCNF0OlPkavH–KgZj97ZQUn6tKJjgA&sig2=HJmtwBLaTq9KSiwc3sL91Q&bvm=bv.59378465,d.aWc

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John Savage January 15, 2014 at 11:53

FWIW:

I think it is possible to reach those in urban liberal cultures in the coastal and/or blue states.

I am a case in point: I was born and raised in a California coastal city. My University education was at one of the most liberal institutions in the country. My mother was a feminist and my brother is a politically active gay-activist flamer, constantly (attempting) shaming me into conformance with his beliefs. I was surrounded by liberal media and culture growing up and in every institution that I ever was a part of. I was raised by a single mother and my father was not allowed to have any influence on the kids – nor even allowed visitation rights. Religion and Tradition were under constant derision… Rock-n-Roll was heavily influential. I was nearly completely indoctrinated into contemporary, cultural liberalism…

…and yet…

… a steady stream of RED PILLS, read cognitive dissonance, entered my diet – against my will, initially… [an education in Intellectual History (history, philosophy, comparative religion, anthropology, mathematics, science, logic, etc.) helped a lot - not ALL Classical Liberal Education, i.e., in the humanities, is worthless.]

Eventually their anti-biotic capacities reached critical mass and I started vomiting up blue pills on a regular basis and the disease of cultural liberalism and its associated insanity finally began to wane.

Now, I embark upon building a new culture, cell by cell, person by person, in an attempt to out-propagate the mal-adaptive culture that currently has the mainstream in thrall.

As a brewer, I know that this can take a long time… but know from experience that eventually a sub-culture can become the dominant culture when the conditions are right and the slurry of individuals grows to a critical mass…

Creating such a culture is often accomplished by merely a DNA exchange between cells. IOW, as is happening at this site and in many places in the web, by an exchange of ideas and conveyance of experience between individuals and cultures distant in time and space.

Have faith, gentlemen. Propaganda always fails in the long run.

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Harcomas January 15, 2014 at 12:28

Dear Jack Donovan January 13, 2014 at 16:19:
As a straight man, I have a request that you particularize some of your insight as to the doings/nondoings of the homosexual community. Would you please inform the readers of The Spearhead of various patterns and nonpatterns in that community, especially from an MRA perspective?

We straight men need to be informed about the above so that we may know how to deal with the homosexual manginas who are so mainstream…

We straight men need to inform homosexuals that their behavior is destructive, disease-ridden, and an abomination. If we are Catholics, we are duty-bound to tell homosexuals in all charity that they must repent, give up their homosexuality, and convert to the traditional Catholic faith.

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Towgunner January 15, 2014 at 14:49

@ John Savage

God’s Speed to you. And, yes, you are making a difference and you will be successful. Why? The status quo, which is, to be clear, NOT white male hetreo centric…its progressive and the status quo is failing. So, more than ever now is the time when new cultures emerge.

See you on the other side.

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Dan the man January 15, 2014 at 15:02

Keoni Galt said he was about awareness, not change. I am lower middle class mixed race Texan. White father from Wood Cty in East Texas,and a Mexican American mother from West Dallas. What Price, and others do, is give people a dialogue to withstand the social change agents. Its a resource for survival, and mental stability for me. I do think it is making a difference in many lives.

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Jaego January 15, 2014 at 17:12

The idea that Men of different races are going to form an alliance is just more foolishness; just another universal, wannabe global ideology. Women can do it to some degree because of their shallowness, but we are too good for it. The different races are united in America in their effort to dispossess the White Race and the Old Order. Once that is accomplished, the Blacks will be crushed by the Hispanics unless they are restrained by the Police State. The Police State is not going to protect Whites since we must be crushed before the New Order can come into existence.

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epoche* January 15, 2014 at 19:22

The below describes the future that the progressive elite would prefer for white males:
——————————————————————-
Where a patriarchal society may posses exterior colonies, the feminist “police state” has “interior colonization” which slowly partitions off the more masculine groups from political and social influence. Men from less advanced civilizations may be completely isolated the way the American “Indians” were forced onto reservations, or they be isolated away from high status positions but reserved for physical labor – as with blacks. But it is different with males who are the products of more advanced societies that have now begun to decline, because these men have the intellectual ability needed to operate an advanced civilization they are not so easily removed. So what happens is that while they continue in high status positions they are are increasing isolated away from enjoying the ends of society and restricted merely to the means.
———————————————
At my job there are women and minorities that are not horrible at what they do but all the most complicated jobs in the computer industry seem to be almost entirely built and maintained by white men. There is one man in particular where I work whose competence is really outstanding and I have to ask myself will people like him exist in 1o years?

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Eric January 16, 2014 at 00:14

Jaego: “The different races are united in America in their effort to dispossess the White Race and the Old Order.”

Non-white American men, at least those who are free of leftist indoctrination, want what white American men want: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Their purpose in life is not to “dispossess the White Race and the Old Order”. They want to prosper for their own sake – as Men – and for their families’ sake – as Men – on their merits – as Men – in their homeland, the United States of America.

I suppose it comes down to the economic theory you subscribe to. Marxist leftists believe in dispossession, as you do, because they believe the economy is a fixed amount that requires a zero-sum contest where one’s gain can only come about from another’s loss.

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Dan the man January 16, 2014 at 00:19

The plan is to screw everyone over. It is white culture that stands in the way. Therefore they become enemy number one. When this is done, they will move on everyone else. (See Price’s next post) As to whether, or not Whites are smarter? … Meh maybe!

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FTLOTBP January 16, 2014 at 01:11

“As Uncle Bern says, “trying to pretend that feminism and the MRA isn’t a left-right issue is sheer foolishness’”

It’s more like a leftright issue – that is, that leftright is one entity controlled by the same powers that control all of the U.S. Both support statism and all its attendant -isms, including feminism. Beating the propaganda that you’ve been fed your entire life is the first step. Believing myths like “we can vote out the bad ones” is not only useless, it is harmful because it allows the leviathan to plow ahead without resistance, ideological or otherwise.

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Anonymous January 16, 2014 at 03:45

RE: CHARLES MARTEL – http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/14/opinion/running-on-fumes-in-north-dakota.html?hp&_r=1

There are many men who are feeling the same sense of isolation that this woman describes, but it’s a fact that men deal with those feelings better then women. That’s why throughout history, it’s been men who do this stuff.

The NYT is definitely trying to twist this in to some PC bulls**t sob story…… “Oh no, female truck driver is let down by reality of hard work”, that sort of thing. The job is temporary, and not that bad. She is a trucker, so she should have picked up some clues on what a truckers life might entail, and she can always quit.

In the end, this is a very New York Times – like thing to do, and it will appeal to their weak audience; who have probably never done any real work.

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paulb January 16, 2014 at 07:02

Seems like the racial aspects that are being discussed here are being muddled- effects are being confused with causes- there’s little evidence of a subtle race war, IMHO- it’s just altruism being carried out. People will always prefer to see the advancement of people with a closer genetic tie to themselves. That’s how humanity evolved into a social animal rather than an apex predator.
If anyone has read Michelle Malkin’s columns this week, there’s a great piece on how much racism she’s encountered by liberal-leaning folks and feminists, for the crime of being an asian conservative Catholic heterosexual woman married to a white man. I’m still trying to figure out if the blind spot of the left regarding their own racism is a feature or a bug of their philosophy. I certainly got it with both barrels from my former collegues at the university where I worked when I came home with a Brazilian wife who was darker-skinned than the rest of us. None of my childhood friends, who are virtually all conservative, traditional, tradesmen and mostly self-employed, said word one other than “Does she have a sister?” Part of the reason I moved back to my hometown. No need to apologize for having kids with a year-round tan.
Most of us are armchair MRA’s, anyhow. I’m sure most of us keep our mouths shut rather than debate those who have swallowed the blue pill except for with close friends. In that sense, I believe the author has a point by extension about picking your battles. Most of us are working and being productive, and as we age and mature pay less attention to pop culture anyhow. So long as we can ensure our kids don’t buy into the BS, we’re making incremental progress, and that seems OK in my book. Like eating an elephant, you just have to go one bite at a time.

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Anonymous January 16, 2014 at 07:40

@ epoche:

“There is one man in particular where I work whose competence is really outstanding and I have to ask myself will people like him exist in 1o years?”

Yes, of course there will be.

I don’t think we’ll get to what you described above. progressivism is communism and communism has come to The West and the U.S. That system above will fail long before something like that will happen.

Now, if we do go down that road and even see that end-state…fear not, the women and state that will enforce it will be utterly incompetent. Consider your own comment above about that one man being exceptional. Okay or mediocre to down right bad is not competency, hence, why this system is failing. Nonetheless, I think men will innovate the next step in civilization, which is the re-emergence of the City-State. Imagine, a local small, checked, balanced government solely to provide for common peace, defense and enforcing contracts with advanced education designed to unleash creative powers (like John Taylor Gatto) and, of course, no female supremacy et al. A system that might keep voting to only those with skin in the game (a concept I picked up from Nassim Taleb, author of Black Swan and Antifragility). Challenge me on this, but, given automation and other technologies a small city state of ~ 1 – 10mm (the smaller the better but not too small) could amass so much wealth today and so quickly that it would likely become the sole Ultra-super power in short order. You say…ha, defense, what of an army? What of it? Big smelly costly armies are obsolete…mosquito sized drones, millions of self replicating robots, could turn the 82nd airborne into corpses in a matter of seconds. The technology is here and the only thing keeping this real progress are the people who call themselves “progressives”.

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Towgunner January 16, 2014 at 07:44

@ epoche:

“There is one man in particular where I work whose competence is really outstanding and I have to ask myself will people like him exist in 1o years?”

Yes, of course there will be.

I don’t think we’ll get to what you described above. progressivism is communism and communism has come to The West and the U.S. That system above will fail long before something like that will happen.

Now, if we do go down that road and even see that end-state…fear not, the women and state that will enforce it will be utterly incompetent. Consider your own comment above about that one man being exceptional. Okay or mediocre to down right bad is not competency, hence, why this system is failing. Nonetheless, I think men will innovate the next step in civilization, which is the re-emergence of the City-State. Imagine, a local small, checked, balanced government solely to provide for common peace, defense and enforcing contracts with advanced education designed to unleash creative powers (like John Taylor Gatto) and, of course, no female supremacy et al. A system that might keep voting to only those with skin in the game (a concept I picked up from Nassim Taleb, author of Black Swan and Antifragility). Challenge me on this, but, given automation and other technologies a small city state of ~ 1 – 10mm (the smaller the better but not too small) could amass so much wealth today and so quickly that it would likely become the sole Ultra-super power in short order. You say…ha, defense, what of an army? What of it? Big smelly costly armies are obsolete…mosquito sized drones, millions of self replicating robots, could turn the 82nd airborne into corpses in a matter of seconds. The technology is here and the only thing keeping this real progress are the people who call themselves “progressives”.

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Eric January 16, 2014 at 08:58

Towgunner: “Big smelly costly armies are obsolete…mosquito sized drones, millions of self replicating robots, could turn the 82nd airborne into corpses in a matter of seconds.”

This sidebar is tangential, but you’re repackaging the old claim that nukes make armies obsolete.

I disagree. Even in the current war, the publicity surrounding drone kills exceeds their consequential effect.

Why? Because armies and, indeed, war aren’t just about killing. In fact, armies, at least the US Army, are more involved in the business of peace because war and peace are on the same continuum. The goal of war is peace via a contest where we compete with the enemy for the power to choose the form of peace.

All our war opponents, including al Qaeda, have sought peace, too. It’s just that their preferred forms of peace have been incompatible with our preferred form of peace.

As military historian TR Fehrenbach said, “You may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it, pulverize it and wipe it clean of life—but if you desire to defend it, protect it and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men in the mud.”

I also like how Robert Heinlein explained the enduring relevance of armies in ‘Starship Troopers’.

If our only military goals were mass destruction and/or a clean-sweep genocide, then nukes and/or “mosquito sized drones, millions of self replicating robots [that] could turn the 82nd airborne into corpses in a matter of seconds” could be enough. But for everything else, such as Counterinsurgency / Peace Operations, we need the versatility of soldiers’ boots on the ground.

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Eric January 16, 2014 at 09:19

Dan the man: “The plan is to screw everyone over. It is white culture that stands in the way. ”

Yes and no. As Heartiste likes to point out, the overseers and plantation owners on the left who profit the most from the left’s social-political-cultural-economic takeover of America are overwhelmingly whites who objectify and exploit minorities. In that sense, while white culture stands in the way, the greatest threat is other whites.

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Dan the man January 16, 2014 at 10:34

@Eric I am talking about the culture of the common white man, not the elites that are behind it. If white culture were not standing in the way, why all the trouble to target, and demonise only whites with traditional values? Why flood countries that are white with people that are from the third world? Why target small town, and rural life in the U.S, Britain, France, and the rest of Europe? Why go after guns, when it is proven that they prevent crime? Why are the elite not alarmed at the falling birthrate in white countries? Why do they denigrate white culture? Them is not we!

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Dan the man January 16, 2014 at 11:06

@Eric In addition, its like telling your average North Korean, that their greatest threat comes from other Koreans.

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Tam the Bam January 16, 2014 at 15:45

“.. a small city state of ~ 1 – 10mm (the smaller the better but not too small) ..”
No, that really is a bit cramped. Even for Glaswegians. Like, the thick end 0f 1/32″, to 3/8″.

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Allan January 17, 2014 at 08:56

“It ranks up there along with wrecking families for power and profit as one of the defining evils of our time.”

On that, you have my enthusiastic agreement. And yet, fighting evil without wisdom allows only evil to triumph. Our political problems require wisdom to see solutions, and the mix of politics I find in all our wisdom seeking traditions makes wisdom elusive.

What an interesting thread of comments. The Tolkien quote… is about holding on to hope in a world so full of evil. Where evil often triumphs. I find that quite meaningful.

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Franklin January 18, 2014 at 11:25

I hate MGTOW. It is just another me, me, me group of modern culture, no better than feminism. A website about The Art of Manliness is not the answer because a separate (seceded) culture requires both sexes. The only answer is a strong religion. As an example, see A Life Apart: Hasidism in America.

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John Savage January 19, 2014 at 09:08

I am wondering if discussions of secession, not just in the men’s movement and its mgtow’s, but in the culture in general, is a signal that the United States and the era of big governments and institutions are going to see their natural ends in our lifetimes… circa within the next couple of generations…

It seems that no amount of propaganda, govt. spying on citizens, incarceration, political persecution, marginalization, technology, social engineering, etc. … can stop the inertia of dissolution of central govt./institutional control from taking place globally… Not just in the U.S., but in Europe, China, Canada, multinational corporations/institutions, etc.

Methinks the libertarian moment has arrived and these changes will take place, not with a bang, nor even a whimper… but a collective sigh of relief… to finally be free of a set of dysfunctional and maladaptive, ossified and stultifying relationships…

???

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John Savage January 19, 2014 at 09:29

Re: MGTOW detractors

It seems that MGTOW is more about the process of decentralizing the govt., the culture, its industries and institutions. It is about reclaiming individual sovereignty, self-determination and the spirit of the frontier. It is about reclaiming one’s natural rights to live as one sees fit and not have to bend to a one-size-fits-all central elite-run paternalistic institution that believes it knows what is best for all, but has no conception of how self-organizing complex systems operate most effectively…

It is about men throwing off the chains of oppression and again saying “NO!” to those that would control us so that we are once again free to do what we think is best for ourselves and those with whom we feel affinity…

See the book “The Declaration of Independents: How Libertarianism Can FIX What Is Wrong with America” by Gillespie and Welch, of REASON magazine for a thought-provoking exposition on the spirit of our times since the global cultural revolutions of the 1960s.

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Franklin January 19, 2014 at 11:02

It isn’t enough to just say “NO” to the mainstream. One also must say “yes” to an alternative. Just saying “no” leads to anarchy which results in perpetual internal war as described by Hobbes.

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Dire Badger January 20, 2014 at 05:22

@John Savage-

What you are describing is an ideal, not a practice.
Democracy, for example, in the ideal, involves everyone voting for what is best for the country….in practice of course, it never involves what is best for the country, only what is best for each individual voter…and, in point of fact, always devolves down to which politician has the best profile and is the best liar.
MGTOW in theory is all you have described… in practice, however, it becomes little more than retreating with your tail tucked between your legs. Ignoring or hiding from the fight against tyranny, and tacitly condoning any injustice as long as it passes you by. In practice, it lacks honor, and will, and any moral foundation other than sheer selfishness. Sure, it is the ‘sane’ choice, but sanity, and choosing not to fight, only results in greater pain when they ‘gather you up…. as a long-term goal, it lacks sustainability.
I am not saying that some men who have gone Galt are not accomplishing the very decentralization you have described, but being MGTOW is definitely NOT for everyone… or even a large minority. Most cannot handle the responsibility it requires, and simply use it as a way to rationalize their cowardice rather than using it as a place to regroup for a ‘sane’ fight.

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