Some men might wonder whether being an “MRA” or caring about men’s issues would affect their lives, particularly where romance is concerned. I suppose it could have an effect in some settings, such as university faculty, politics and so on, but these are self-limiting communities. An important thing to remember is that most people don’t care about these issues, or they are simply repeating what they think is the acceptable opinion.
That being the case, it’s probably wise not to even bother them with it. Simply treat the people around you – men and women – with the good manners you find appropriate. If someone asks you for your opinion, go ahead and give it if you’d like, but if your opinion is not solicited, there’s no need to offer it. This goes for all manner of political issues, from gun control to abortion to illegal immigration.
As far as most women are concerned, the political opinions a man has take second place to the kinds of status and character markers that most concern women. I have no doubt that a liberal female could find herself strongly attracted to a conservative US Marine, for example, if he was attractive, strong and assertive in a masculine way. And women, like men, act on their attractions first, especially when young.
This doesn’t mean you should go out and look for someone that you disagree with, but rather that opinions are less important than people imagine. If they weren’t, how come they change so readily in such short periods of time?
So, instead of fretting over what people think about what you think, which simply leads men to behave in a way that women find unattractive, try to act as you believe to be right according to your own standards. Doing so will give a man some of that assurance and purpose that women like, but more importantly it will allow him to be at peace with himself.
We should save our political efforts for where they really count, and at the intimate, personal level they have little use. Our main concerns are not that our acquaintances or even lovers agree with us on everything, but that powerful people do not have the opportunity to perpetrate injustices against us. So I maintain that it is many, many times more effective to make a statement for men’s rights in front of a city council or citizen oversight committee than it is in any informal setting or in the home, and certainly more than on a date with a woman who probably hasn’t given it a thought all day.
That said, if you are a strong proponent of men’s rights and liberty, consider speaking your mind openly to the powerful. Don’t shy away from doing so in favor of preaching to the little people, who might just become confused and uncomfortable. Let them hear you say it to those with power. That’s really how you’ll bring them around, and that’s how you influence people’s opinions.
{ 54 comments… read them below or add one }
Great advice. Debating with progressives is like banging your head against the wall. Only do it to hone your rhetorical skills, or to humiliate them.
Otherwise, save your energies for the undecideds out there who will follow strength, certainty and moral conviction.
I can see your point, and clearly there are cases of successful “opposites attract” relationships.
However, I think these are very much the exception, and for most people, it’s imperative that their politics match their partner’s, because all the most explosive political issues are basically about men and women (and the off-shoots of sex, children, marriage, family, etc).
For instance, if you’re pro-life and you have a pro-choice partner, an unplanned pregnancy could very well spell the end of your relationship, not to mention years of recrimination and bitterness.
If you don’t go for “equal marriage”, but your partner has a gay best friend and believes in the cause passionately, this may well cause major ructions in your relationship and could even split you up (seen it happen).
If you believe children need a married mother and father, but your partner is totally opposed to the “oppressive” institution, how are you going to manage when kids come along?
I think where it comes to friends and colleagues, then sure, the old adage “never talk about politics or religion” holds well, and it’s possible to have good, productive relationships with people who don’t see eye-to-eye with you on everything (or anything!).
But when it comes to long-term romantic partners, then I do think that it’s not just important, but crucial, and one of the key predictors of long-term success, that on these critical issues, you agree.
Sexual attraction alone is a poor basis for a lasting relationship, as even the most sizzling spark wanes after a few years. You need to be with someone with whom you share goals and a life-view, otherwise you are in real danger of becoming warring adversaries trying to convert each other, rather than life partners who naturally complement each other.
Frankly, after this Oberlin debacle, I am emotionally exhausted.
This post is wrong. The private and the public are interconnected, albeit in an odd manner.
Sure a “center”, moderate, neutral left/liberal man/woman doesn’t have to worry about “politics” in her private life but men and women who are devout followers of Abrahamic religions (and perhaps other types) have.
Their entire worldview has little in common with classical/modern liberalism and Enlightenment values.
I have seen liberal chicks with “moderate” conservative men, but never liberal men with (actual, genuine) conservative women. Now why is that?
It’s like Black men/White women vs. Black women/White men interracial pairings in the USA. You see a lot of Black dudes with white women, but rarely black women with white men.
Liberals and feminists have this crazy idea that women who follow Abrahamic religions are brainwashed, oppressed, pathetic or stupid.
And no I would never date a liberal man. It fails, the dates/meetings/etc. are horrible and the divorce rates for these type of couplings are through the roof.
Yeah, it sucks. The usual time I have to talk to people about it is right when I meet them. That is when they ask if I have kids.
I usually just say the one, being my second kid from my only marriage. The one with my ex gets left unmentioned. As soon as I say two, it is not uncommon for someone to ask, “oh, where is your other one?” and I find myself a little at odds with what to tell them.
Current political climates relegate my opinion to the outskirts of mainstream sheople thinking. Shoving the red pill down their throat, when it is plausible, takes someone with the social dexterity of a surgeon; not the crass behavior of a Brahma Bull in a China shop.
Eventually, you figure it out. Yet every time another man tells me he is getting married, my stomach cringes in a knot. I find it hard not to hold too many women suspect; and am constantly surprised people take their love life so cavalierly.
At some point, I think we have to agree with you; show some balls by talking to the geniuses running the show, and let them know that they are going to have to fail at martyring us in the public view. People desire a show of strength! Not whiny tarts rubbing their metaphorical soft nipple egos in public! Makes you look weak.
Perception, wielded powerfully, is stronger than armies, political BS, and the fear of God (in some cases). Sheoplidis is hard to crack, but in this case it must be done! But Price hit this out of the park, it is badly needed that we face these foster child murdering bastards with poise and tact. Even if they deserve far worse. We can’t win if they can wield the public’s perception to view us as child support non paying barbarians who neglect their kids, and burden taxpayers.
We will get our day in court; so to speak. Until then, know when to open your mouth.
“That said, if you are a strong proponent of men’s rights and liberty, consider speaking your mind openly to the powerful.”
I would contact Senaturds’ Chuck Schumer’s and Kirsten Gillibrand’s (the latter formerly my U. S. House Representative) offices, as well as that of Representatard Paul Tonko, but let’s face it, both of the aforementioned men are manginas and Kirsten Gillibrand isn’t even remotely antifeminist. I’m in upstate New York, after all. I have to deal with this bullshit every day.
I wonder if any marriage can really last unless the woman is religious.
I’m a strong proponent of being politically active at any and all levels. I never miss an opportunity to speak to the people who represent me. It’s important that they hear that there are real people harmed by the injustice in family court and how domestic violence is dealt with.
I’m lucky to live in a very conservative part of the world, so I don’t bump in to too many progressive types. Sure, there are some university educated young women around town, but they don’t ever challenge the message I share in the newspaper letters section or at public meetings. I suspect they realize I’d annihilate them and embarrass them if they tried to spout off some feminist junk about violence having a gender.
In my personal and professional life, I’m much more circumspect, but everyone who knows me, knows me as the political guy who wants to see father’s and children’s rights protected. I’m quite OK with that label.
Speak to the powerful?
The powerful are politicians, with all the characteristics of politicians. That means they are corrupt or always thinking about it.
If speaking to politicians is ever to be fruitful one must offer them something which is of interest to them. Usually your support to keep them powerful is a pretty start.
This is true in an ideal world, but even most conservative women reserve the right to skip out at will. The large majority of men are going to end up with women who see nothing wrong with leaving marriage if they find it personally advantageous to do so. So, by holding to those standards, most men would have to go through life alone, and although that may be the smart choice, it isn’t going to happen for obvious reasons.
The fundamental problem is that women are given the power to destroy the lives of their husbands. Take that away and her opinions don’t matter nearly as much. Sure, she might leave, but the guy will not be too much the worse for wear.
Mainly, the point I’m trying to make is that bringing politics into an intimate setting doesn’t do much good. It’s a waste of time and effort that would be better spent going after the root cause of the problem.
At age 47 I’m just about too old to give a shit anymore what somebody thinks about my beliefs. And as far as relationships with women? Hey, what you see is what you get–the license plate on my truck reads “MGTOW.”
That’s how I knew when I met my current wife (a beautiful, religious woman respectful of my role in the household), that since she did not flinch about my attitude and did not attempt to “change me”, that she was the one for me. She qualified herself. BTW, I used to be an angry man like some guys here who swore I would never again allow a woman into my house. Well, I must say that I changed my mind–and I am now happier than I have ever been in my life. Being married to the right woman makes ALL the difference.
Go ahead and flame away if you want, but I have found the right one for me. YMMV.
PS: The religious part is important. When you have a woman who actually ADVOCATES Ephesians 5 21-33, then I think you are on the right track. There are no guarantees in life, but if you confine your associations to women of high character to start with (there are some out there), you have a better chance at avoiding divorce theft.
GS Jockey
Most people haven’t even ever bothered to form an opinion about politics, religion and social issues. And people with opinions bore, if not threaten those without opinions. If they vote at all, they’ll vote for who they like the most, who is most appealing to them personally.
Most women don’t find men with strong opinions attractive. He seems rather obstinate and brutish. He’ll be harder to control in a relationship, especially if he’s conservative, as most women are liberal, and those that aren’t are Abrahamic. He can ramble on about history and facts and data to substantiate his world view, but she’ll find him a complete and utter bore. He might as well be talking about his Fantasy Baseball team.
I was talking to a liberal guy the other day about the sequester and he said we need to cut defense spending by pulling our military out of all these countries. I told him we spend about $560 Billion a year on military. He said “No we don’t, we spend at least a Trillion.” I said the combination of the Iraq War and Afghanistastan over the last 10 years was a Trillion. He said, “No, they cost a lot more than that, but Bush didn’t account for it all so it seems like a lot less than what it was.” There’s just no point in arguing with low-information ideologues.
A year ago, I might have completely agreed with everything in this post, but now I am not so sure. I really have witnessed that the world-view of liberals cause them to not only hold different beliefs, but it affects how they interact with the world around them and many every day decisions.
Last weekend I went up to Cleveland and stayed at my older brother’s house, who is a raving liberal. Saturday night we met a [gay] friend of his at a Polish tavern on the West Side. He had along with him two women – one a friend, and HER friend that she had met working on Obama’s campaign (no joke). God was that evening fun. First they had to insult the Catholic church for a while because they saw a little pope statue at the counter and were agitated about it (hey, the place is Polish). Then I literally had to sit there for an hour listening to them talk about this PBS show they had recently watched on women’s issues and how it convinced the gay friend and my brother how tough women had it – now and in the past. I had already mouthed off when asked about “The Sequester” earlier in the meal, so I decided to pick my battles and say nothing. Afterward we went to the gay friend’s house, who lived in a nearby neighborhood that gentrifiers have been working on for the last 20 years but only made little headway. Now normally I wouldn’t set foot in such an area – especially after dark! – but to them just because an area is just a block or two over from a huge housing project doesn’t mean it is dangerous, right? So what if the guy has had his car broken into four times in the last two years? And of course they would have been absolutely scandalized if they thought I would have taken precautionary measures and packed heat for the occasion. I have another liberal friend who won’t even allow her children to go into a house if she knows there is a gun inside. She won’t go into Walmart either, because they are “exploitative”. And since these liberals are all so touchy, you have to watch what you say around them or you ruin what otherwise would have been a pleasant evening.
With all the gun control BS that’s been floating around lately as well as the ongoing American budget crisis – and even the illegal immigration debates going on while we are in a Depression – it feels like we are still in an election year. It just sucks. I know I am not going to convince anyone when I speak out, but SILENCE IS CONSENT, as they say, and I will not be guilty of giving people the impression that everyone agrees with their mis-guided and destructive views just because they are so vehemtly obnoxious about them.
I am grateful that over the last several years I have been able to successfully mold my wife’s beliefs on political matters (it helped that her first year of teaching she worked at an all-black school – during the same year Obama was initially elected). If she doesn’t understand an issue or isn’t fully aware of all the details, she will gladly defer to my opinion on such matters. She even asks me how she should vote on most local and state issues.
I’m in 100 percent agreement with GSJockey….
In almost ten years of being a part of the MRM, I lived a devout life of the quintessential MGTOW. Due to my profession, I was NEVER short of opportunities to ‘get laid’. Most men would have completely envied my lifestyle and the amount of women who THREW themselves at me night after night. Funny enough, those who would have MOST envied it, are the ones who make a lot of money selling ‘game’. I know who every one of them are, and have read their blogs. And though I support each and every one of them in their efforts to help other men overcome their ‘betatudes’, the act of ‘game’ was never for me. Partly because, when you perform in front of hundreds to thousands a night as a musician…. you don’t NEED game. Despite this, I lived a life of chosen celibacy and abstinence for well over eight years.
I did this for one very important reason: I knew that the woman I wanted WAS out there. She was going to meet MY requirements as a mate. It was NOT going to be the other way around…… PERIOD. I already knew that I was a good man, and that I would make the RIGHT mate for the woman intelligent and….. wait for it…. spiritual enough to know how to attract me, and then KEEP me. In short…. I was looking for that “God fearing” woman. I take great pride in knowing that I am an Ephesians 5 man that GS speaks about. In order for any woman to actually GET this Ephesians 5 man….. she was going to HAVE to be a Proverbs 31 and Titus 2 woman. I was not going to accept anything less…..period.
Did I mention that women were throwing themselves at me every day?
My wife IS that God fearing, Pro31/Titus2 woman. She doesn’t just talk the talk… she walks the walk. She lets me be the man… She’s a died in the wool conservative with traditional values…. but the heart and soul of a musician… which makes her cool as CHIT to this guy who traveled the world as one. And on any given night, I’d rather be singing harmony with her than listening to the gaggle of groupies I used to have talk their bullchit night after night, while spewing their feminist mantra crap. Oh yeah… she’s really farickin’ HOT too. I mean…. HOT. Most of the ‘gamers’ would give her a ’9′, and would spend a good amount of time giving their best ‘negs’ to open up a dialogue… : )
Thanks GS for letting me know there is another out there who knows what I know and gets it. And let ANYBODY start flaming…. I just woke up to some really good sex this morning… It’s been that way, pretty much every day, for about three years now. The twenty to thirty something ‘gamers’ would wish to be as lucky as this fifty year old guy every day….
Nothing more refreshing than expressing oneself in right minded company. Key thing, is finding and keeping right minded company.
All else poses severe hazards … hazards more so than merely casting pearls before swine.
You see. Some with us, are grown so mutually co-dependent and cross-parasitic on BIG BROV GOV, they eat, drink and shit their pathetic way only via treachery and perfidy.
The less perspective supplied or opinion expressed with which human vermin amongst us feed themselves by reporting elsewhere, the safer you’d be.
@ W.F. Price
Sure, I see your point that in theory all women could leave. But in practice, there is a huge statistical difference in the types of woman *likely* to leave.
Someone who’s, let’s say, active in the pro-life movement, a regular contributor to conservative blogs, and expresses frequent outrage about women who break up families, is simply a far safer bet than someone who proudly defines as liberal-atheist-feminist and openly supports heroic single moms.
Here as in many other areas of life, you have to play the odds. Yes, both women could in theory leave and drag you through the courts, that option is legally available to them both. But the same way as when an employer is looking through resumes, he picks the candidate with the solid work history who hasn’t flitted from job to job every three months, you’ve got to look at someone’s past to assess how they’re likely to behave in the future. The employer knows this is no guarantee the employee won’t walk out on their second day – it just makes it much more unlikely.
I know the marriage landscape is a holocaust at the moment, but it is important to remember that the majority of marriages, a little over 50%, do still last a life-time. So all you have to do is pick the women who are in that cohort. The safest way to do that is to look for ones who have conservative, traditional values and feel strongly about family breakdown. This isn’t a foolproof plan, but nothing ever is. It is a strategic gamble which is far more likely to pay off than entrusting your fate to chance.
“I wonder if any marriage can really last unless the woman is religious.”
Very shortly after my “X” started Bible Study and received her “Confirmation” she filed for the big “D”, and I don’t mean Dallas.
I believe there is a difference between living the faith and going to church for social appearances. Most churches are liberal bastions that run interference for single moms and fembots.
@AF
It’s a good point you, GS Jockey, Hugh and meistergedanken make. Someone should write a piece on what to look for in a mate, because a lot of men have no clue. We have to remember that when men are more mature they have the benefit of hindsight and experience, and when you know something it’s easy to assume others should know it too, although very often they do not.
I suppose what I was trying to stress with this piece is that most people are sheep by nature — followers. In fact, all of us are to some extent, depending largely on our knowledge or passion concerning one subject or the other. Maybe I can speak with some authority about gender issues after having spent a great deal of time thinking about them, but if an engineer were to voice strong opinions on the relative benefits of various engine configurations, I’d defer to him, and might feel a bit overwhelmed if he were to make a big issue of it. Perhaps I like an inline 4, and he is strongly opposed to that engine for whatever reason. He might change my opinion, but not by browbeating me over it — I’d just end up thinking “this is an unpleasant fellow.”
I don’t think most people’s opinions on feminism and gender issues are all that important, because they are just “going along.” However, it’s important when your senator or your police chief – or even your local reporter – has a biased opinion. These are the people we should be dealing with, and yet it seems to me that a lot of people concerned with men’s issues spend more time trying to convince the ordinary people around them than they do opposing feminist policies at the top.
However, I understand your point about being careful regarding the woman you choose to have a relationship with. But that’s a little different from what I’m trying to say here.
Someone should write a piece on what to look for in a mate, because a lot of men have no clue.
Dalrock has some pretty good articles about that. What questions to ask her, and what signs (both good and bad) to observe for in her behavior.
Frankly, if you call them ‘liberals’, you are ceding half the battle to them already. This is something non-leftists never learn.
They are not ‘liberal’ at all. They are rigid, intolerant, hateful, and unhappy.
Is anything about feminists actually ‘liberal’.
But non-leftists never learn the importance of words, hence only cede ground to leftists..
@ W.F. Price
Okay, I see where you’re coming from. Yes; you’re right about not browbeating people and also about prioritising who you try to influence.
However, at the end of the day it isn’t legal officials, media syndicates, or governmental policies who leave each other and break up families – it’s individual people.
So actually, in this area I think trying to influence individual people does really profoundly matter, at a personal, societal and political level.
That’s why pro-life campaigners stand outside clinics; although their major problem is political, the fact that abortion is legal, they also recognise that just as important is talking to the actual people who have the abortions. Most women still go ahead after talking to a pro-life campaigner – but some don’t. Every single person they “convert” really does matter, as much as all their lobbying of government and so on does.
I think absolutely the same applies to marriage and relationships. Here, the personal really is the political, and in trying to dramatically change the political climate, one must also try to dramatically change individual people. Do most people know the statistics on divorce and subsequent health problems, or family breakdown and children’s plummeting chances? With the liberal stranglehold on the media, of course not. Giving them the information they lack really can make an important difference.
An article of the type you suggested is an excellent idea. Even as the war of the sexes continues to rampage and claim more casualties daily, I still firmly believe that most people want and need a compatible long-term partner in order to be happy. It is just, as you say, most don’t know what to look for and so inevitably end up getting burned. A little bit of guidance can go a long way.
“…knows me as a political guy who wants to see father’s and children’s rights protected. I’m quite OK with that label.”
Don’t sound so damned shy (to me) about embracing such a noble title.
Let’s hear you proclaim your devotion from the mountain top!
Sounds like you are doing more than the average “MRA”. Good work.
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Off Topic- cont’d
No word about The US requiring our Muslim brother F-16 pilots to take anger management classes before we give them the aircraft.
That was Off Topic-cont’d from The Nature of the Beast” discussion.
@ Bradely
If you go on any feminist site, do they speak of men (even manginas and white knights, both 0f wh0m they mock behind their backs) in flattering terms?
Remember, it is feminists who have androcidal fantasies instead of MRA’s who have gynocidal fantasies.
“Male power” is not a myth; it seems more like an oxymoron when you think about it. Maybe Warren Farrell should have called his book “The Oxymoron of Male Power.”
Go ahead and flame away if you want, but I have found the right one for me. YMMV.
————————————————————————————
You are a man, GSJockey you are also a human being with real needs and desires. They are not crimminal or something to be critisized. Enjoy your life. As a MGTOW type (just knowing that) you have earned it. Enjoy your life.
@TFH
So true you have to call liberals by their real name … puritan fascists
Lysander,
No argument here. I suppose I was thinking about the real deal and not just some dippy broad that goes to a Bible study class.
I want very few things from a woman but what I want I insist upon.
A woman who cannot accept my world view is a woman who will not follow my leadership. A woman who will not follow my leadership will either be dragged along in my life’s wake or will become a hinderance to the realization of my goals and dreams.
One good thing about feminism is that it has enabled us to look at women with a much more critical eye than previous generations.
Given the expense of raising children, the difficulties experienced in even good marriages, and the burden that being a modern American male entails where women are concerned I fail to see why I shouldn’t insist upon my view being the correct view in a household that I establish and support.
Being a wimps is what got us into this situation Mr. Price, and being wimps won’t get us out of it.
Granted, keeping one’s opinions to one’s self is a wise strategy on the job and in the world at large but I fail to see how keeping it to yourself in intimate relationships is beneficial.
Please consider the following:
A wise person will have three faces.
One that they show the world which acts as a shield. The second face is shown only to true friends and close family members and is much closer to the truth. The third face is not a face at all but rather the individual himself.
This third face is revealed only to a higher power in prayer.
If you keep your personal views to your self and conceal your heart in a relationship with a woman (to such an extreme degree) then your building your relationship in a dishonest fashion which is bound to fail in my opinion.
Not to mention, that the secrets we keep are ultimately revealed in the little things we do and say and not the big things.
Your woman will ultimately be fully aware of where you stand even if you don’t have the guts to state it explicitly.
As always Mr. Price thank you for allowing comments on this website and I hope you’ll give my comment some serious consideration.
I don’t agree with much of Price’s opinion on this one. I understand that if you’re going out on a specific night to have some fun, blow off some steam and forget about the realities of what is happening, then sure, try your best not to think about it and try your best not to talk about it. But, once you’ve swallowed the whole pill, it takes some effort to not notice what is happening in front of your eyes. As for being quiet about our opinions? I think that is exactly wrong. When I’m in a group of five ten or twenty people and I hear some idiot feminist spouting off her horseshit assuming everyone there is agreement with her or not giving a shit if they are not, I let he or she have it. I want them to no they don’t have a free pass when it comes to spouting off destructive bullshit. I also want to be a role model for others so that they may realize they don’t have to listen to that shit silently. And, for those in the group that don’t know what the hell is going on, I think it is important to try to help inform them. The disease spread because we were silent. Fuck silence. As for women and a men’s rights guy? You don’t want a democrat. You don’t want a woman who thinks she is equal as opposed to different. Sure, your going to have to rule out about ninety percent of the female population. The ninety percent of the female population that men are usually better off living without. An exaggeration? A fifty percent divorce rate. That’s fifty percent right there. What percentage of marriages suck, but they don’t get divorced for financial reasons or because of the children? Being a man isn’t being the biggest, the strongest the fastest or any of that stuff. Being a man is being different than being a woman. A man can be a man who contentedly desires and allows his wife to make most decisions. But, a male is not a male if he gives up on having the final say or final authority. That men have been leaders and protectors since we crawled out of the trees is the essence of being a man. I don’t give a shit if a guy weighs three hundred pounds and plays for the Bears, if his wife wears the pants and he wears the panties, I’m sorry, he’s not a man.
This has been a common topic in the past. In the 90′s, a fellow worker and I discussed it for some weeks, trying to find those factors which indicate a woman is likely to divorce you. We came up with a number of things to look for in a woman who is less likely to divorce, and were proud of it.
I told my son. He said, “You guys are stupid f*****s! You are making something that is easy, hard. Just look at how a woman drives, and you will see the women who are getting divorced, drive like maniacs.”
I was stunned. My buddy and I walked around and asked a number of women how they drove. Virtually 100% of the women who had divorced admitted, in some cases, proudly, they drove like maniacs. And, the women who had been married for years all said they tried to drive as carefully as they could.
Careful driving does have major personality characteristics in it, that we had in our long, complicated lists. Things like recognizing an external authority greater than themselves. Things like caring for the well-being of others more than themselves.
When my mother died, my sister, a two-time loser, told me to leave for the funeral half an hour before she did, so we’d get there at the same time. The funeral was 25 miles away. I left half an hour early, and she caught me up as we arrived in the small town.
No woman, not ever. Tell them. No marriage, no co-habitation, no dating. No baby…Nada…and crush their hopes instantly. End of debate.
I am a man of my word.
I can tell you what strength is.
I get the point about not browbeating people, and not staying in the angry phase. But post-divorce I’ve found that having an edge and an opinion has not hurt me at all in dating, quite the contrary, and I’m in one of the most leftist parts of the country.
At the beginning I would rant a bit with family, then I toned it down because it just became schtick, but then the funny thing was that the younger men and boys in the family, nephews, cousins, even ones that supposedly disagreed with me, would start calling me for advice and I realized that for young men raised outside of a traditional environment, even those that self identify as ‘progressive’ know that something isn’t right and look for guidance to put it all together.
And then there’s what to do when the older feminist aunts start making comments to my kids at family events. I can’t stop them from hearing feminist hate talk, they’re going to hear plenty more of it in their lives I’m sure, but I sure as hell can let them see me push back against it if someone gets into it in front of them, particularly with the obligatory comments that are designed implicitly or explicitly to make him feel bad for being male. It is important for my son to see me push back against it. For my daughter too, for that matter.
I get that the personal shouldn’t be the political, but in some settings it just is, maybe because they have made it so. So like an earlier commentator, I have ended up becoming known a bit as the ‘guy who cares about men and fathers’ and I’m ok with that.
Re letter from anonymous age 70
That’s a good one about evaluating a potential wife based on her driving habits. I think it not only does it mean a lot because there is often so much rudeness and inconsideration shown, but also so much nervousness (as opposed to calmness), but also a lot of “illogic” shown as opposed to logic. I then thought about the women I’ve known and I think your point generally holds true. I thought of the women I know that drive like maniacs and worse and I just said, “I’ll stay single.”
I’m with AF and Susanna on this.
Our main concerns are not that our acquaintances or even lovers agree with us on everything, but that powerful people do not have the opportunity to perpetrate injustices against us.
The most progress you can make in any fashion is with creating and cultivating a change of culture. Some people do that in different ways. Myself, I have advocated myself to cultivating an appropriate philosophy in my children. Which does involve discussing this with spouses.
An MRA with a feminist wife – even if she finds him attractive and willingly submits to him subconciously because he’s just that macho – is going to find problems when he discovers himself trying to teach his sons how to be men and his daughters how to respect men and his wife spouts feminist garbage and rails against his every attempt. And teaching the next generation is far more critical than beating our heads against unyielding politicians who only care about what the majority thinks.
To me, the most important facet of this is the education of young girls. Boys will rebound as girls grow up to be graceful, modest young women. But you have all so clearly rejected the idea of women among your ranks (I have a soft spot for Anon at 70 and understand where he’s coming from, but I totally disagree here) that educating those young girls is going to be a nightmare for men in this day and age.
I agree that those we speak of here are not actually “liberals.” Rather, they are libertines, posing as “liberals,” seeking to maximize their freedoms, minimize their responsibilities and do so at the expense of the natural rights and civil liberties of others as enshrined in the Bill of Rights, specifically those outlined in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
I won’t even speak to such people any longer, nor do business with them, if they exercise their hatred and hostility openly upon me. Ditto for government and corporate America and just about every other institution in this failing “society.”
MGTOW and working as little as possible to lessen my contributions to those who would deprive us of life, liberty and humanity.
I’ve had enough. I had always tried to find a middle ground through a sort of libertarianism with such people, but in the last years have seen the straw that broke the camel’s back. It wasn’t any event in particular. Just a lifetime of BS that finally made me give up and disavow such people for the rest of my life.
I am much happier now and can say that that camel has thrown that load from his back and will never suffer such indiginities again.
I am gone from this society for good. This is society’s loss, not mine.
I’m pretty sure that the Job of desensitizing people to the MRA is already done ,The problem being now we need to call a spade a spade ,
Strong language and in place of passive voices is needed .
We call these men white Knights ( I’m flattered Is there response ) , In reality they are under developed ,Pussy hounds . Evolution has passed these men bye.
Slavery is slavery no matter how you coin it , Termination of policies of slavery is demanded , Not requested . The end result of slavery is always the same , Violence and death .
Hypergamy is just mass theft . The weakness of legislators is greed and well documented . Call a spade a spade .
We need to rename ,With accuracy white knights .
Call out the legislators that cling to the hundred good reasons for slavery . Have you ever seen a photo of any Judge being displayed with some of the Garbage decisions being made .
As far as I can see and as long as Iv been a MRA drugs and Ill morality has been a constant in the feminist movement right up to the courthouses and Judges that make backroom deals with drug dealers and and greedy corp slave owners .
Lech Wałęsa was an electrician , He said I was usefully as an electrician now Im a slave ,The Electrician will never be useful again .
At a point Men need not give away there skills to people that don’t deserve the Luxury of such men .
Action speak load Make it cost .
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@ Bradely
Go to Rad Fem Hub. They have androcidal fantasies. They would go after YOU just like they would go after me and the vast majority of commenters on this site, solely because of our Y chromosomes.
If males have so much power, that’s news to me and all the men on this site. If feminists wanted to put their money where their mouths are with regards to equality, they would:
1) eliminate the stigma of males hitting females;
2) try to achieve 50% of the prison population;
3) try to achieve 50% of the higher education population (they are currently in the majority, so they would have to make concessions to men);
4) try to achieve near equality in life expectancy with men (this would require more spending on MEN’s health);
5) try to achieve parity in workplace fatalities as these are the REAL hostile work environments, not hearing a misogynist epithet once in a pleasant office;
6) try to achieve parity on death row (this would require declaring the death penalty unconstitutional for males but not females until as many females have been put to death as males since 1976);
7) females would have to stop using double standards where the male gets the less advantageous standard (such as in example #1)
and I could go on and on. So tell me where all this male power is because I really don’t see it.
What a surprise. Bradely did not respond.
Here’s other examples where feminists would have to put their money where their mouths are with regards to equality:
1) they would have to replace all-male selective service registration with all-female selective service registration until the number of women blown to bits in combat equals the number of men blown to bits in combat against their will
2) they would have to make 50% of alimony payers female and 50% of child support recipients fathers
3) they would have to abolish all affirmative action because not working is not an option for males
4) they would have to focus more suicide prevention resources towards males as about 90% of suicides are males
5) they would have to take into account that women initiate domestic violence and initiating domestic violence would have to be punished severely
So tell us, where is all this male power?
Can you give even one example of how average Western men have “a lot of power” compared to women (this a textbook example of the Apex Fallacy” common among feminists)? Or how Western women have to, “deal with a lot of crap from their fellow… men…”
I have thought about this for quite a while, and I honestly cannot think of ONE. SINGLE. AREA. where Western women – as a group – can legitimately complain about being disadvantaged because of their sex.
I admit to having been a little surprised to discover just how completely baseless feminist complaints are, but after reading what feminists themselves say (and whine about), I realized that NONE of it has any objective merit. I’d like to hear your rationale for your statement.
@ Lyn87
I hate to say it, but I don’t think Bradely is going to respond to either one of us. I’ll believe it when I see it.
@ Bradely
“When you see a woman say ‘Ugh, kill all men’, she is again just ranting. She most likely does not actually mean it, and those who do are few.”
Well I, and all the other men on this site, find that “rant” offensive, and as for your assertion that “those who do are few,” Mary Daly was a professor at Boston College who had androcidal fantasies and there is no way any college would hire a male professor with gynocidal fantasies, so that is yet again, another double standard.
But maybe you would still like to come back and answer Lyn87′s questions and mine about men having so much power and how much crap women put up with from men?
@ Lyn87
We could always ambush Bradely on another thread if need be.
>>(I have a soft spot for Anon at 70 and understand where he’s coming from, but I totally disagree here
If you are the Christina who blogged about your dating and marriage, then your child, I too have a soft spot for you.
And, I am not sure what you disagree with. Since 1984, I have been watching men’s groups, and 100% of the time those groups are essentially destroyed as far as being effective, the minute women come in. Period.
Soon enough, one of the women will disagree with a main issue of the group. And, when one of the men objects, the other men stop everything and pile on him. Game over. Period.
If that is not what you disagreed with, then I have no clue.
Meh.
Politics is a misandric toilet. Conservatives want more guns to protect the wimminz; liberals want the grrrlz to have more money buy shoes. Fuck them all.
I make no secret of my MHRM activism in my personal life, and every day I try to teach other men to call bullshit on feminism. My message, though couched in various ways, is simple: men are intrinsically valuable and their needs matter.
Most men have never heard anyone say this before – and when they hear it, their eyes light up and I can feel their chains breaking. The women they are with go silent and they avert their gazes – they know their slaves are about to wake up, and it terrifies them.
Go play politics if you like. It is warm and comfortable and a fit melodrama for feminists, since nothing much changes there except for next season’s hemlines and shoe styles. Elephants and donkeys are only great at making more dung.
Or, go forth and win the hearts and minds of men, one man at a time, by reminding them that men built civilization and we have nothing to be ashamed of.
Let us become a communicable disease that no feminist can cure.
No more silence. We already tried 50 years of that crud and all it resulted in was us being on our current positions with our back against the wall.
Luckily I can confide in my Chinese girlfriend. Even if she disagrees, it’s not really a touchy, political subject. Asians just don’t care. Neither does my family. Feels good man.
All Tyranny requires to thrive is for good and intelligent men to remain silent.
Speaking to anyone who is not on your wavelength will deplete your energy/chakras VERY quickly. I would only bring it up if somebody starts complaining about the state of affairs- that way you have an easier entry into deeper subjects. That’s why I no longer talk about ANYTHING but work at the office and avoid talking to ANYONE in the first place. If I want to joke around – I go around the corner and chat with a couple of “latinos” or “middle-easterners”.
@TheBiboSez
“My message, though couched in various ways, is simple: men are intrinsically valuable and their needs matter.”
IMO, this is very important, and I share your opinion that many men have never heard this message before. Certainly the men I see getting crushed and ground up by family court need to hear this message loud and clear, and not only from lone wolf operators like the likes of us.
When u have something to say – SAY it.
And thats what I do.