Baby Gap: Country vs. City

by W.F. Price on December 6, 2012

Every now and then I check up on people I used spend a lot of time with when I was younger, looking through Facebook or other online profiles. I do so less than I used to, because with each year we drift farther from the times we used to spend together, and farther apart in every way.

The biggest difference by far is the fact that I have children. Because I am a city boy, fewer than half of my former acquaintances are parents, and that may be understating the situation. This simple difference puts us worlds apart in concerns and politics, and I’m afraid in many cases we wouldn’t enjoy each other’s company much any longer, because we have conflicting world views and very little common ground.

Those who don’t live in America’s urban centers may not realize how profoundly different and unnatural the urban lifestyle is. Marriage with children is the exception — not the norm. It’s a world where sex and work are detached from all but one’s personal pleasure and comfort. Nature is a concept that gets a lot of lip service from urban liberals, but it’s covered up with steel and concrete; the conservative rural whites they so despise have a far deeper connection with the land. In cities, most people one sees are strangers – including neighbors – and the order of it all appears purposeless.

If anyone wants to understand the profound political schism in our country, the contrasting lifestyle of city vs. country explains it better than anything, and the most important part of that contrast is children. Having children influences people in very important ways, and among urban people under 40, white ones in particular, it is an experience that is increasingly rare.

Children change things in myriad ways. The way we talk, the way we dress and even the way we walk (people are more careful around kids). Without them, vulgarity seems inconsequential, overt sexuality harmless and perversion tolerable. Gender politics – utterly toxic to families trying to get along to raise kids – seem like a reasonable game to play for one advantage or another. Predatory sexuality of both the male and female varieties is not seen as much of a threat, and generally winked at.

On Thanksgiving, a family member told me about a scene on Capitol Hill (Seattle’s most urban, populated and liberal neighborhood) following the Democrats’ election victory. Evidently, residents poured out onto the street and burst into a spontaneous, orgiastic celebration. I doubt even committed liberals would feel comfortable having their children in the midst of that mob, and that’s big city America today. That scene is urban American politics in a nutshell.

For those who care about family and children, I’d strongly advise leaving the cities. Those who have children should avoid sending them there for college if they want any grandchildren. Cities may be fun, and jobs there may pay more, but the costs they impose on families are excessive. The only way ordinary people can avoid the fragmentation of their families is through being a part of some kinship or religious centered clan, as many urban ethnic groups such as Chinese, Jews and Italians are, but that isn’t a great fit for most Americans, who tend to place more value on the nuclear family.

{ 31 comments… read them below or add one }

El Bastardo December 6, 2012 at 06:49

“For those who care about family and children, I’d strongly advise leaving the cities. Those who have children should avoid sending them there for college if they want any grandchildren.”

Yeah, especially if the EBT cards stop paying out; and police won’t be able to “arrive in time.” Wonder twin powers; activate! LA Riots 2.0 baby; degeneracy let’s go!

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Uncle Elmer December 6, 2012 at 07:49

The cities are crawling with beatniks, Manginae, and other loathsome parasites.

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Uncle Elmer December 6, 2012 at 08:08

I said I would stop, but Jenna, who routinely deletes my comments, looks pretty hot in her ForbesWoman icon. Also she has daggers for Mehgan, who uses my commentary to boost page clicks.

Kicking The Can: Campbell’s CEO Bets On Soup-In-A-Bag For 20-Somethings

Millennials, those ages 18 to 34, now constitute 25% of the U.S. population, or approximately 80 million people. “There are a lot of them,” says Mark Alexander, president of Campbell’s North America. “And they spend a lot of money.”

Gen Y is globally connected, culturally diverse, college educated and underemployed. They are also the dine-out generation, routinely eating Mexican, Indian and Asian cuisines once considered exotic.

“They go through life hunting out and gathering different experiences,” says Charles Vila, vice president of consumer insights. “They sample foods in the same way they sample jobs.”

elmer is excited about the new product lineup :

There is a continent-size mat of plastic debris floating in the Pacific Ocean. These Millennial Woman Serving bags will make a nice accent to that emergent art form. With the convenience of pre-added water, at $2.99 it’s a steal over the dreary, old-fashioned $1.09 cans. Long-term plastic decay should not affect the taste notably, either.

And the name “Go Soup”, great branding. No way is anyone gonna make fun of that.

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MKP December 6, 2012 at 08:11

A lot of “don’ts.” What SHOULD you do if you have children?

“Avoid sending your children to the cities for college?” Where SHOULD you send them? Austin, Texas is a city. Chapel Hill, North Carolina is a city. Provo, Utah – home of BYU – has half a million people in the metro area. It’s a city, by any reasonable definition. Should you just not send your children to college? What if they’re 18 and they decide they want to go even without your permission?

Are your sons going to go to college? If so, where?

Jaego was on one of the threads the other day talking about how his conservative friends had 3 daughters who grew up to be liberal feminists. Well, Jaego is a smart guy and I’m sure his observation was accurate. But I didn’t catch the part where he explained HOW you can avoid that fate. “Stay away from the big cities – danger lurks there!” is exactly the kind of thing that will get kids to dream of running off to the big city before they go to bed every night.

Should you keep your daughter locked up in her room studying the bible until she’s 18? She’ll just just rebel even harder when she finally moves out – which, if you DO want grandchildren, you’re going to have to allow at some point. Should we follow our daughters around from the time they can walk and club them in the head every time they say something “liberal?”

“Oh, you’re just being a dick.” OK, fine. What SHOULD we do? Serious question.

I’m not trying to be a jerk. But honestly, what the plan any of you have for raising children to be responsible, non-liberal, non-feminist, family-oriented adults? Not a list of “don’ts,” but an active plan. How many grandfathers do we have here, anyway? Not many, is my hunch.

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Thrasymachus December 6, 2012 at 08:47

The young, urban, church people I know like the city, but when they have kids they can’t afford it any more, so they move to the suburbs. This has been a pattern in America for a long time, the change has been people prefer to delay children for longer and stay in the city, a preference for lifestyle over family.

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Norm December 6, 2012 at 09:00

When crunch time hits, the city slickers who are unprepared will get desperate. The city need the country to survive. If the cities “magically” disappeared one day the rural areas would still be self sufficient.
Didn’t Oregon and Washington get a lot of Californicators move there in the 80s and 90s and bring their liberal policies with them to inflict on you? Liberals leave areas they ruined yet move to traditional areas and try to subvert them to their own agenda.

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keyster December 6, 2012 at 09:25

Are your sons going to go to college? If so, where?

That’s a valid point. College towns are liberal. I live in Boulder, Colorado – – believe me I know. You can send your children to tony little academic white enclaves for school, but they’ll eventually end up in a larger city of “diverse” proportions. The now harmonious melting pots of the big urban centers, all neatly divided into “where the blacks live” (typically denoted as “East”, “West” or “South” something), Little Mexico , Chinatown, etc. – – will see what racial/cultural tension really means when gubmint money runs out. Young white urban hipsters fresh out of University with their degrees in history or english lit, working at Starbucks by day, and waiting tables by night – will discover the hard way, that racism works both ways.

The Young want to fit in with each other. Liberalism/Socialism is just plain hip, cool and stylish. Conservatism/ Capitalism is racist, sexist, unfair and might as well be the Nazi Party under God and Wall Street.

Now that the USA has officially transformed into a Western European style socialist country in spending (without the higher taxes – YET), environmentalism is the new religion du jour. The planet is warming and if the entire World doesn’t agree to spontaneously stop carbon emissions by 2020, the children liberals will never have anyway (children are for other people to have), will lead a difficult life. So let’s stop driving, shut down coal powered electricity plants (while not permitting anymore Nuclear plants to be built), and all ride our bicycles to work and text our friends on solar powered iPads.

If I were white I’d move out of CrackerTown (the neighorhood with fancy brownstones and pretty little parks), before the collapse. Santa Monica is not that far from West Compton and East LA. It’ll be like Tahir Square, but the rioters are armed with AK’s and 9mm’s instead of rocks and sticks. You’ll get pulled out of your Prius at gun point and beaten to death, just because…”somebody gonna pay”.

Personally I’m looking towards Wyoming, perhaps Casper; where deranged mass killings are commited with a compound bow. YEAH! Liz Cheney will be our President, big signs at the borders – “Socialists and Illegals will be Shot”.

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W.F. Price December 6, 2012 at 09:27

OK, fine. What SHOULD we do? Serious question.


It’s a good question, and one that probably deserves an entire book as a response.

The key to my own plan is pretty simple (it’s still in its early stages). I’m going to have the kids learn a trade first. That won’t hold them back if they do want to progress higher (you can usually get an associate’s or bachelor’s degree in conjunction with learning a trade/profession), and will give them a good, solid opportunity to get by on their own early on. If you’re going to help your kids get an education, insist on something that will pay off soon. Once they are making their own money, if they want to blow some of it on gender studies classes that’s their problem — not yours.

Here’s the logic behind it: your daughter can get an AS while becoming, say, an optician. Fortunately, trade schools/community colleges are conveniently local. While getting that degree, she won’t have time for gender studies or other garbage classes, and she can probably get a decent salary immediately upon its completion. Then, she could either decide to keep working in that field, get a higher degree such as optometry in the same field (she can do this whenever she wants), or become a struggling professional snarky feminist (highly unlikely).

If, on the other hand, you send her first to “find herself” while getting a liberal arts BA, she could sleep with God knows how many people while there on her way to earning a degree in English lit or somesuch crap. Now, you’ve spent four times as much money on that worthless degree, and she can either try immediately to become a snarky feminist, or spend yet more money to get a master’s of education and become a public school teacher, and get paid no more than an optician.

The concept is pretty simple. You just don’t spoil her.

W.F. Price December 6, 2012 at 09:31

Didn’t Oregon and Washington get a lot of Californicators move there in the 80s and 90s and bring their liberal policies with them to inflict on you? Liberals leave areas they ruined yet move to traditional areas and try to subvert them to their own agenda.


Yeah, we got a lot of Californians up here, but I wouldn’t blame them for the liberalism — we’ve got plenty of home-grown lefties and always have. Actually, I think a lot of Californian transplants settled in the inland West and are pretty right-wing.

maxsnafu December 6, 2012 at 10:10


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Matt Strictland December 6, 2012 at 10:17

The baby gap is to be expected, its a part and parcel of human nature and has been part of the urban experience since well there was an urban experience

Cities make it hard to raise kids. In the past it was pestilence and cost of living mostly. These days, we have much cleaner cities and lower disease but its also easier to compensate for the cost of living with fertility control.Moat baeez

The baby boom of the post war era was an aberration really and it why everyone but the most feral savages is having some population reduction. Even the pig ignorant illiterates are stating to figure it out , slowly but surely.

Frankly, the issue is long overdo. This idea that we need constant population growth is a product of defective economic thinking and running the Red Queen’s Race against surplus production.

It needs to stop and subject to numbers of savages and the temporary economic issues, if the issue stabilizes it will be an improvement for all.

There is only one conundrum, a lot of societies need to find some means to reinvigorate non urban areas economically if they want eventual population stability. The new population is either going to come from suburbs or the country, not the city. Failure to do this can lock cities into a population loss course for good with pretty catastrophic results.

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keyster December 6, 2012 at 10:31

The changing country in geo-graph form.
Note how areas with the largest concentrations of population voted, (where young and minorities tend to reside).

Welmer – Good luck trying to influence your children’s life decisions as they approach adulthood. I hope they’ll be the exception and actually listen to their “grissly know-it-all father” when the time comes….flying in the face of their Mothering and popular culture of the time.

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Jaego December 6, 2012 at 10:32

Yes, America is very divided. We are so focused on Race and Sex, that we forget the old divisions between City and Country, North and South, East and West, and Coast and “Fly Over” are still in place. If I open my mouth good PC Country Folks are shocked at my accent – even though they pride themselves on their open mindedness.

One nice thing about Liberals is that they don’t care about things like that. Too bad they’re crazy and evil…

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MKP December 6, 2012 at 10:34

OK. The “have your daughter go to a local school to be an optician” plan is certainly a legitimate one. I can think of many good things about this idea. But you have to know that this isn’t an answer to my question posed above, nor an answer to the issues raised (regardless of my earlier comment) by your article.

Even if “don’t let your kids move to the big city to become leftist urbanites” is only part of the picture – how can you execute even that part? Have you EVER known a bright, ambitious teenager who would be happy to live in the quiet suburbs for his or her entire life? Or in Casper, Wyoming, like Keyster up there? That’s not a rhetorical question – I’d love to hear some answers from people. How many intelligent, interesting teenagers do any of you know? And out of them, how many are thinking “I’d like to stay out here, where there’s affordable track housing, and good public schools for when I get married and start a family at age 23?”

It seems like at the end of the day, it always comes down to “eventually, they will have to opportunity to move to Brooklyn become slut-power feminists, if that’s what they choose.” Well, guess what – that’s what they’re choosing.

“The concept is simple. Just don’t spoil her.” More “don’ts.” What DO you do?

I understand I’m coming across as a jerk, and I apologize for that. This is a complex issue, and even someone as smart and well-read as you can’t be expected to have all the answers. But I see stuff like this:

“Those who have children should avoid sending them there for college if they want any grandchildren. Cities may be fun, and jobs there may pay more, but the costs they impose on families are excessive.”

… and I just think, man, five years from now, his son is going to come to him and say “I got into to NYU, and I want to go there, because it’s diverse and exciting. And if you won’t help me pay for it, I’ll take out loans.”

And that’s not the kind of thing that lends itself to the kind of canned, one-liner solutions that the alt-right is always espousing. I’m sorry, I’m just being honest. I still love your site and hope I haven’t pissed you off.

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Poiuyt December 6, 2012 at 10:55

High powered NewYork, Californian or Chicago divorce attornesses are known to tirelessly work bastardizing millions of other men’s children and their infant dependants for a profittable living, in the name of womens rights. But they then return to their old countries and own families nation of origin to lavishly meet/greet their, still married fathers and mums with the material proceeds of their vile city work. They perpetrate their big-city socio-political crimes, then return to boast of it, in their own countries of historical origin back in say, quiet and conservative Italy, Spain, Portugal, Singapore or Argentina where family still means something.

For an inordinately good living on a grand Ponzi scheme, received as huge government fees and huge public service wages, endlessly creating and heroically managing inter-familial chaos and inter-gender violence : Family court Judges, Justices of the peace and Jurists of the higher courts, are known to procedurally deprive millions of inner and outter city kids of stable homes and stable family backgrounds on the pretext of fighting womens oppression and imaginary domestic violence. Then during extended recess, holidays or annual leave, these adjudicators proudly return to their own paternal homesteads, home states and homelands, alongside their own smug and intact extended families, to snidely blame, grumble and sneer from afar. That is, at the urban barbarians, neo-troglodites and mindless city tearaways and shiftless youths that they created and that they professionally depend on for sustenance.

It is no different a story of high econo-political treason and mass treachery with the following State enforcers and system supporters: Police commissioners, Senior metropolitan Police officers, Urban, Municipal, City and Community Support/Protection Staff, County Sheriffs, Probational/Correctional and Juvenile support officers. All of these men achieving State authority have had the grace of such stauch disciplinarian and permanently resident fathers teaching, guiding and protecting them up to their own well heeled and well adjusted adulthood. Yet for profit and administrative careers paid in public wages, salaries, bonuses and pensions, plus benefits, which must be borrowed, printed or stolen by the collapsing State, these thoroughly disgusting, wretched and most ugly of State officials routinely and deliberately, to justify their existence and jobs, manufacture countless fatherless bastards, rudderless illegitimates and juvenile delinquents …

None of any of the above three classes of ennobled State agents or State traitors ever found more fertile grounds in which to practice their wicked State profession than in the urban, inner and megga city metropolis …

… Because in this annonymous environment of the big city, they are able to work their evil deeds on hapless men and their dazed, abused children unobtrusively, unaccountably and inconsequentially. These false professionals can’t have ever dared practice their vilest profession of bastardization, incarceration and illegitimate abortion in any environments where they and their own extended families were intimately known !

These observations outlining the insidious class/ecosystem, political-environment and geographic-foundations of misandry demands counter measures and counter valences in the form of novell and innovative grassroots reactions …

For exampe:

A misandropedia in the form of a thoroughly detailed, well referenced, well furnished, well updated, and well monitored global database, supplying timely and immediate text and video reports on the home ground, of misandries perpetrators. One that illuminates the local personalities and outlines the prevailing social landscape regarding the misandrists motivations in his own very personal circumstances.

If there is to be no privacey at all according to practitioners of genderist law, in the contrived and singular pursuit of womens rights at all costs to others: … The least that can be done is to also get in on the ground floor underneath its perpetrators home and his feet, to video/report it in all its fine and gory detail. And there is no better environment to detect/reflect misandry and to protect its roving reporters than in the very big city megatropolis wherein its perpetrators have hitherto gone free.

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ConantheContrarian December 6, 2012 at 12:04

I live in the suburbs of a second tier/third tier Midwestern metro area. The “city” is not that attractive, but isn’t that bad either. It is typically Democrat, and is slowly deteriorating. Nevertheless the suburbs are quite pleasant, and I hope that my grandchildren will grow up here. I guess that it just depends on where you live.

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keyster December 6, 2012 at 12:29

We are so focused on Race and Sex, that we forget the old divisions between City and Country, North and South, East and West, and Coast and “Fly Over” are still in place.

And we now have a Federal Government imposing it’s social and economic (justice) will on everyone regardless of what half the country wants.

We are in the midst of a Cold Civil War. We have no leadership to unify us, only stratify us further. Feminism will seem like just another whimsical fancy of the era; like disco music or the pant-suit. Only men bred to be men and the women who follow them will survive…out in the hinterlands, far from the mad crowds.

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zed December 6, 2012 at 13:03

Nevertheless the suburbs are quite pleasant, and I hope that my grandchildren will grow up here. I guess that it just depends on where you live.

… and work. How many decently paying jobs are located in the suburbs? Generally, when the central city dies, so do the ‘burbs because there just aren’t enough jobs which pay enough to keep up the payments on the McMansions.

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Anonymous Reader December 6, 2012 at 13:07

Keyster’s home town of Boulder is a perfect example. The city is in the process of considering shutting down some public schools, due to a lack of students. The standard DINK SWPL lifestyle has no room for messy things like children, even though Boulder has a lot of parks and other green space available where they could easily play. But no worries, importing people from the 3rd world will provide children.

Lots of fans of immigration in Boulder. Just not lots of immigrants, except for Asians at CU. Boulder is one of the most majority-white towns on the Front Range in my opinion, and it shows the interesting hypocritical nature of the left and left liberal. “Immigration is great, just don’ t build any low-cost housing in my part of town – or my part of the county, either”.

More abstractly, cities have been net population sinks as long as they have existed, as a rule. which means, among other things, that the cities have always had to rely on the countryside for soldiers…

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Tired Guy December 6, 2012 at 13:23

For those wondering how you can keep control over your kids, its simple. If they want to be an adult, treat them like an adult. I see so many western parents complaining about how they can’t control their teen / young adult children, all the while they are funding their children’s rebellion. Giving them all the rights, and none of the responsibilities ends in disaster – or feminism.

I say, “My house, my rules. Don’t like it, get the hell out.” If you send your children off to university without funding it, they don’t have much choice but to fund it themselves. And let me tell you, nothing beats the stupid liberal out of anyone like having to work, having to deal with the real world.

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ColWalterKurtz December 6, 2012 at 14:04

@MKP and regarding your question of “what should we do?”

I have a 5 year old daughter who I love very much and who I want to marry off to a good Christian man sometime between the ages of 19 and 23. I hope that they will glorify God and enjoy him forever — I also hope for many grandchildren.

Here’s my plan so far (I may change it entirely and I will probably elaborate on it significantly) for protecting her from the rot:

1) Do not glorify the rotting society. We severely limit television, radio, and Internet. (Sure its easy at this age, but we plan to keep it limited. She doesn’t even know how to work the remote controls for the TV. Compare that to the 5 year-olds you know.) We don’t send her to the day prisons for indoctrination. Instead, we homeschool.

2) Emphasize the downside of the rot. I’m an attorney in a very specialized practice area. But I share office space with a general practice attorney. My “roommate” handles divorces, criminal defense, custody disputes — all the fallout of the feminist revolution. He gets all sorts of sad, angry, belligerent, unattractive people in his office all day complaining about the fix they’ve put themselves in. He doesn’t close his door when talking to them (unprofessional, but … ) So these stories leak out to the whole office (they’re very distracting, I wish my office was soundproofed). There’s a desk right outside his office. I hope that when my daughter is old enough I can give her a job working for me so she will be exposed to all this nastiness.

3) (More of the same) I do a little criminal defense work for people the State deems too indigent to afford their own attorney. When my daughter works for me, I’ll take her with me to the jail to confer with clients as my assistant. “Scared Straight” without the criminal charge.

I’m hoping that this combination of protecting her from the glorification of cultural rot and an eyewitness experience of the downsides of it will keep her head on straight.

Of course, the early marriage and child-rearing will help also.

I have the same plan for my son (expected in Feb), although if he follows the early marriage and childbirth plan, he’ll have the additional reinforcement of the hobnailed boot of family law court oppression to keep him faithful to the family he forms.

For both of them, although for different reasons, the question of who they will marry (and if they marry at all) will the be the most consequential decision they ever make.

I hope to talk to them about that fact casually just about every time the topic is remotely brought up.

It’s a plan. It’s not perfect and it’s not complete. But it’s a start.

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Brawler December 6, 2012 at 14:36

Careful there, Lawyer “ColWalterKurtz”, another Legal opportunist and professional Liar might just be sufficiently cheesed off with your obvious “abusiveness” and “control issues”. And he/she might just be tempted to use “your current and future plan” for your children as “probative-evidence” and an opening for a meal ticket of his/her own.

You know. The Duluth Model and other frauds.

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MKP December 6, 2012 at 15:15

@ Col. Kurtz –

Well, first of all, I thank you for answering, and for answering completely and honestly.

Your plan, while perhaps imperfect, is more well-thought out and comprehensive than most others I’ve heard. The “scared straight” concept is a good one, and one that I imagine could pay valuable dividends. I’ve often thought that highlighting the dangers of STDs – repeatedly and graphically – could cut down on our problems significantly. Likewise, an early and consistent focus on the importance of choosing a spouse is probably as good an idea as any. The fact that you are dealing with this issue materially, and not abstractly, explains why you have clearly put a lot of thought into the whole thing.

Having said that, let me point out some roadblocks that even smart, dedicated parents face. Understand that I am NOT criticizing you, and not even necessarily referring to you or your children anymore. I’d bet my next paycheck that you’re a great Dad and your kids will turn out well. But, for purposes of others who may be reading, let me point out some common drawbacks:

(1) I went to college (not THAT long ago) at a relatively small, pretty respected private university. Mostly white students, mostly middle-class or higher. A surprising number of home-schooled kids – maybe 3 percent of the student body were home-schooled all the way through high school. And these kids were well known as the wildest, craziest partiers of all. Why? Because they had never been exposed to the things they were now being exposed to. Their freedom to drink, smoke, have sex, and stay up late was like a newfound drug that had been given to them (as compared to students who had gradually been introduced to such freedoms over the previous 3-4 years of their lives). Don’t take my word for it – ask recent college graduates if they had any home-schoolers in their college classes. And ask them how these kids acted.

Now – your daughter may not go to college, and if she does, she may have more sense that the ones I knew. Again, I’m not talking about your family personally. Just pointing out potential obstacles.

(2) Consider the case of another concerned father (not necessarily you) raising a daughter (not necessarily yours). Imagine, for a minute, that this father has a job that occasionally requires him to visit the inside of a prison. Imagine that this father thinks “I will bring my daughter along this time, to show her the consequences of crime, addiction, and degeneracy.” Now – imagine how effective this tactic would prove if the daughter comes away not thinking about the negative consequences of crime and degeneracy, but instead, thinking “wow, those prisoners were mean-looking. And violent. And they had huge muscles.” And goes to bed that night having sexual fantasies about the big, mean, violent prisoners.

Because THAT’S EXACTLY HOW WOMEN THINK. Dalrock has written about this extensively – how conservative Christianity has built this orderly society on a series of rules, patterns, and dictates that completely ignore the powerful force of female sexuality. More powerful than many Christian men can seem to comprehend. Being a hormonal teenager would make the girl in question MORE likely to let her mind wander in this direction, not less. Christian society has completely ignored the question of female desire, and it’s now getting eaten alive by secular society, which is explicitly catering to it.

I wish you the best of luck with your family. I’m sure they will turn out great. Price, I’m sure your boys will turn out great, as well. I just wish this were the kind of conversation that men could have more frequently and openly.

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Jaego December 6, 2012 at 16:51

Christian society ignored female sexuality? Yes, and those women who didn’t ignore their own sexualtiy were thought to be complete trash. Extreme but effective. Islam does the same now – but with more knowledge. Women are thought to be more lusty than men and need to be strictly controlled. Actually the old Church Fathers said the same. One of them said, If it wasn’t for the natural shyness of women, no flesh would be saved. Somehow this has been forgotten from popular Christianity – like so much else.

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jimbo December 6, 2012 at 17:19

I’ve been to SF, Berkley, Madison, Seattle, Iowa City and quite a few other liberal cities and/or college towns and for my money, their is nothing like Boulder Colorado. When it comes to group think, it is the most close minded and least diverse group of people I have ever encountered in my life and it is nothing but bizarre to watch them pat themselves on the back all day and all night for being so open minded and diverse. My theory is that it is a powerful example of what a group of people can become when their primary goal in life is to be part of the “in crowd”. How it gets so strong with one group, I do not understand. How do you do it Keyster?!

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MKP December 6, 2012 at 17:29

@ Jaego

You are correct in all particulars. But I’m talking about what fathers can do in the world as it currently is.

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ThingY December 6, 2012 at 17:35

You sound like a lot of my “friends” who now have families. There seems to be an automatic assumption on their part that because I don’t have a family that I am a redundancy that is no longer compatible with their (new) life. The high level of self absorption is still their except that “the children” become a pretext for decisions that are still completely self serving (this is NOT to say they are neglectful parents).

It’s all the more amusing when they have a small to non existent family network to fall back upon and so whittling away potential social support seems a morose decision to me.

I can agree on the ethnic membership, being part Italian, but I would add that the Irish are another group that have an extended social network on top of family that is tightly knit (bound together by Saint Paddy, booze and hatred of the English).

As for the scenes in Seattle I would be hard pressed to imagine any such similarity occurring here in Australia over an election outcome, the perception of our politicians perhaps being at an all time nadir. On top of that, in accordance with the global perception of Australian’s being an uncouth, uncivilised lot, they would probably be pelted with (empty) beer bottles for the homoerotic nature of their dancing.

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geographybeefinalisthimself December 6, 2012 at 17:39


You are correct about how the stricter a parent is with his or her children, the more rebellious the child is likely to be in high school and into college. I would tend to think that there could be an inverse correlation between level of parental strictness and rebelliousness of the parent’s own child.

Although I was never homeschooled myself (many other current and former Geography Bee competitors reportedly are), I was kept on one of the tightest leashes of the students in my public school district. When I got to college, I was a very heavy drinker and while for most undergrads the appeal of alcohol actually and paradoxically wears off after their respective twenty-first birthdays, for me turning twenty-one made the appeal even higher. I managed to graduate after four years in 2003, but I was getting increasingly plastered and smoking excessive amounts of pot after turning twenty-one as well.

I take full responsibility for my drug and alcohol abuse as I was not forced to abuse either alcohol or marijuana under duress. I have never responded well to tyranny, which is what brought me to the MRM. I will always wonder how things would have turned out if my parents had allowed my older sister, me and my younger brother greater freedom. Neither my older sister nor my younger brother is as oppositional-defiant as I am, but I am pretty sure both of them would have enjoyed greater freedom as well.

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The First Joe December 7, 2012 at 15:21

“spontaneous, orgiastic celebration.”

I watched that. Bwahahahahahahaaaaa!!! Call that an orgy? Ha!
Pffft. It’s just a bunch of people standing about more or less politely and two utter knobends dancing badly with their shirts off.

Pretty much ANY Friday or Saturday night in ANY town or city in the UK will be waaaaaay more hardcore than that.
People puking, fighting, getting half-naked or just plain old naked, snogging, sometimes shagging, in the pubs, the clubs and in the street. Standard.
And plenty of them are parents too (when single mothers do get a night out, they go mental, in my experiencl).
And it’s not even as mental as it used to be, because: a) beer prices = insane! b) economy= fucked, people are skint.

I spent a week or so in Seattle back in ’03, went to a couple of gigs, had a few beers, watched some bands, snogged a girl… It was alright, but never “orgiastic”. I’m not sure Seattle really has “orgiastic” in it.

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Old Guard December 17, 2012 at 21:36


With respect to raising children, a few tips:

1. Give your children entirely to God, pray for them ceaselessly, and pray for yourself and your wife as parents. Without this, nothing else works.

2. Belong to a strong religious subculture. We’re Catholic trads. Our children have lots of friends from similar backgrounds. They’re all serious about their faith and they support each other in living their Christian lives. They really do.

3. Home school using a literature-rich classical curriculum. The literature prepares them for the depraved and ugly in life, in a moral context, without them having to be “scared straight” by extreme measures.

4. Get them involved in the community. My kids have to go to the local public school for certain events. They always come back with the creeps, but at the same time, they develop some human empathy.

5. If there isn’t sufficient marriageable material in the neighborhood, send your kids to one of the many small conservative liberal arts colleges. Some of them have 25 percent or more of the student body from home schooling backgrounds. There they will meet like minded young men and women in a wholesome environment. Make sure the dorms are sex segregated and visitation is strictly limited. Yes, it’s true, your kids will encounter rebellious behavior in some of their peers. This is good. It’s real world sinfulness, but in its proper place – penalized, controlled, and running for cover. The rebels typically don’t last and the good guys win. These schools have very high rates of students who marry. It is joked that the ladies attend in pursuit of their “MRS” degree.

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Old Guard December 17, 2012 at 21:48

I really can’t emphasize the literature enough. Everything is covered in the western canon, even the “manosphere” obsessions – hypergamy, female sexuality, etc. They won’t get all of it in high school but they’ll get enough to keep them interested. Those immersed in the literature begin to know themselves. The precautions taken to prevent disaster in a traditional Christian culture begin to make sense.

Another thing – this is critical – raise your kids to revere honesty and to have a mortal fear of lies. All of the bad stuff you’re worried about hides under the cover of lies. Honest men and women will tend toward virtue in every sphere.

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