“Flowers” of Arab Spring Wilting

by W.F. Price on October 3, 2012

When some feminists demanded the arrest of the misguided Christian man who produced a primitive movie mocking Islam, I had to shake my head at the sheer stupidity of it. Here in the West, and in the US in particular, feminists tend to see Christianity as the one force that must be destroyed. They are so wrapped up in their hate crusade against Christians and traditional Western civilization that they will side with anyone they see as an ally in its destruction.

However they, and most other Westerners, have a very feeble understanding of Islam. We tend to look at the authoritarian governments that characterize Islamic societies and blame them for Islamic fundamentalism, which we then interpret as “anti-democratic.” Nothing could be farther from the truth. Out of the Abrahamic religions, and perhaps all major religions, Islam is the most democratic of faiths. Christianity, on the other hand, is spiritually aristocratic, while Judaism tends to be more legalistic.

Muhammad was a populist prophet; he declared all men equal under Allah. Major branches of Islam are not nearly as hierarchical as traditional Christianity. Becoming an imam doesn’t require the approval of bishops or a formal process, but rather popular recognition of one’s wisdom and spiritual authority. A young man who is well-versed in the Koran and has a good understanding of Sharia can lead other Muslims in prayer, and without any formal ordination he becomes an imam.

So Islamic society already has a very powerful democratic institution: the mosque. In prayer, the cobbler and the sultan are equal before Allah. In its pure form, it is a true brotherhood of faith.

However, human society needs hierarchy somewhere, and if it isn’t found in one’s religion, it tends to emerge elsewhere. So Islamic societies are characterized by democratic religious institutions and authoritarian governments. I think the reason that political democracy developed in Christian societies is that the hierarchical nature of the church allowed the emergence of more egalitarian governments. For Christians, the hierarchy of the church provided the necessary order, giving people a sense of their proper place in the world. This prevented the social chaos that tends to emerge as a result of unchecked egalitarianism. In other words, Christians did not need an authoritarian government, because the church provided them with social order. As an example, if we look at contemporary American society, it’s fairly clear that the breakdown of religious authority has led to a need for a more authoritarian government and oppressive, coercive laws. Perhaps that’s the inevitable result in societies that allow for freedom of religion; I suppose future historians will address the issue.

When we helped “liberate” Muslims from their dictators, what we were doing was essentially removing a sense of order from their societies. Not to say that the corrupt, authoritarian regimes were all that benevolent, but rather that we helped make religious egalitarianism, i.e. Islam, the dominant force. And, of course, women’s “equality” cannot meaningfully exist in an egalitarian society, because the real differences between men and women are too stark. In fact, it takes a great deal of authoritarian coercion to bring women up to the level we find them occupying in the US. From federal agencies to local police forces and courts, hundreds of thousands of people are employed in the business of “equalizing” men and women. One could fairly call it a domestic army.

Under Arab dictators like Saddam Hussein and Hosni Mubarak, women had higher relative social status that they do now in the freshly liberated countries of Iraq and Egypt. Feminist projects were indulged, women’s groups patronized, and so on. Now that men have been freed from the constraints of the regimes, much of this has been rolled back. Islam and feminism are now said to be mutually exclusive. Sharia has hardened, and tolerance for more liberal interpretations of Islam (not to mention other faiths) is weakening. In its purer forms, democracy is entirely incompatible with feminism. For example, if Americans merely applied Constitutional principles to family law, women’s supremacy in that institution would vanish overnight.

But still feminists live in a fantasy world in which democracy and female supremacy are one and the same. This is why they supported the Arab Spring revolts, backwardly thinking that feminism would flower in countries where authoritarian governments were removed. Perhaps not all of them are that stupid, but it seems to be the prevailing attitude, hence their disappointment when things didn’t turn out quite as they had expected.

Here at home, feminists instinctively understand that their power rests on an authoritarian state, and typically support punitive, coercive and confiscatory measures against men. Indeed, authoritarian governments overwhelmingly direct their efforts toward placing controls on the males of a given society, as they are viewed as the more credible threat to state power. So how could they make such a mistake where the Arab countries are concerned?

I think it really comes down to a desire to permanently vanquish the traditional spiritual authority of the West, and replace it with something else. Every authoritarian regime, no matter where, is a stand-in for the hated “patriarchy,” which is really just another word for traditional Christianity.

Ultimately, they may have their way. I can’t say with any conviction whether Christianity will survive or fade away. However, if it does fail, a new order will arise in its place, and I think we can say with some certainty that it will not be dominated by women, and if the rest of the world is any indication, women’s status will not be enhanced.

{ 45 comments… read them below or add one }

Opus October 3, 2012 at 10:56

I cannot pretend that my predictions (here and elsewhere) on the Internet lst year and for which I was much castigated are coming to pass. The idea that Egypt was to become Costa Mesa CA or Henley-on-Thames by reason of Democracy struck me as delusional, much as it might be desired by the Western Liberal elite. A hundred years or so ago it would have been Christianity rather than Democracy that was being promised.

I may not believe but, obviously, culturally, I am Christian (in the sense that I am not Muslim or Hindu) and I deprecate the endless attacks on Christianity that are made against it (in the name of that other religion Cultural Marxism).

I can only wish we were possessors of your first amendment.

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MKP October 3, 2012 at 11:09

Interesting piece … as far as this part:

” … the reason that political democracy developed in Christian societies is that the hierarchical nature of the church allowed the emergence of more egalitarian governments … In other words, Christians did not need an authoritarian government, because the church provided them with social order.”

There are plenty of counter-arguments to be made – history is replete with societies characterized by authoritarian / hierarchical governments AND religious institutions.

However, you’re definitely right with this part:

“Under Arab dictators like Saddam Hussein and Hosni Mubarak, women had higher relative social status that they do now in the freshly liberated countries of Iraq and Egypt.”

I don’t know as much about Mubarak, but Hussein’s Iraq was one of the most woman-friendly places in the middle east for year. Women were attending college in Baghdad when they couldn’t walk around with their chins showing in Saudi Arabia or Yemen. I would not be surprised to see the same was true with Qaddafi’s Libya. of course, we’re sure to see some … um, “backsliding” in that area now. I wish that someone could corner Hillary Clinton and just force her to honestly answer, like, 3 or 4 questions with no BS. It would be very illuminating.

As far as Islam goes, I’m not especially religious or spiritual, so I don’t really have an interest or value in it as far as the Word of Allah and his prophet. But as far as the may Muslim people organize their societies, I’m keeping an open mind. I’m not saying I’m on board – just that I have an open mind.

Anyway, it’s not like what we’re doing over here is working, is it?

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keyster October 3, 2012 at 11:19

Excellent analysis.
Feminists hate Christianity because of the abortion issue first and foremost. After that comes the “civil rights” of gays to marry, or recognition of marriage as something other than between a man and woman. (It really vexes the Left to hear Ahmadinejad criticize homosexuality.) Gay marriage implies men and women are equal, and many feminists are lesbians.

These US sponsored tyrants promoted western values (decline?), while keeping the Muslim extremists on a short leash. Now there’s a vacuum created and the Arab Spring is turning into the Islamic Revolution, (as Israel contemplates it’s future in the region). Tyrants crack down on extremism of any kind. Democratically elected governments can’t do this so easily, they have to be “diversity sensitive”…so the extremists will turn to domestic terrorism against the government…such as in Iraq and Afganistan.

The Mobs that took to the streets across the Middle East for Arab Spring were well-meaning westernized progressives, (like OWS). Now where are they all while our embassys are under attack? How many women did you see protesting that video? Not too many. Why? Muslim extremists don’t let women out of their homes to do those kinds of things. They belong at home with the children making sammiches, I guess.

You’d think we would have learned from paying the Palastinians off to become a “democracy” only to have them vote Hamas into power. Obama threw Mubarak under the bus because Arab Spring was all about freedom, democracy, power to the people and equality for women; while Laura Logan gets sexually assaulted reporting on this glorious event. How ironic!

And now they’ve elected the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood as their president. Take note Feminists – – that’s BROTHERhood, not personhood. The Middle East is more of a mess now than since after WWII, and one of them will have a Nuke soon. Happy, happy, joy, joy!

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geographybeefinalisthimself October 3, 2012 at 11:30

“Islam and feminism are now said to be mutually exclusive.”

Finally, something is mutually exclusive from feminism.

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keyster October 3, 2012 at 11:36

I can only wish we were possessors of your first amendment.

It’s never been more apparent than now that our news media here is beyond corrupt. Selectively choosing to ignore stories that might make Obama look bad, while Romney gets a hang nail and it’s front page news. They’re invested in “the first black president” and losing the bid for a second term will not be tolerated.

The TV networks take their cues from the NYTImes and the Washington Post. There was even a clandestine organization of reporters that conferenced weekly to coordinate promoting Obama.

Great speech on the reality of the current state of the first amendment here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brDZJA8j-8c

Our young men and women are indocrinated in our journalism schools, and sent out into the world to report with a certian world view slant in mind.

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MKP October 3, 2012 at 11:45

I should also add that there’s an undercurrent of the female psyche that is drawn to men who seize control over women, prevent women from expressing themselves, and ruthlessly demonstrate power over women in any way they can. That’s not to say that women really want to be in burqhas – as always, it’s more complicated than that. Women might really “want,” on some level, freedom and power for themselves, … but also just can’t stop thinking about men who consider domination over women to be their birthright.

Since women usually won’t admit these feelings, even to themselves, and since any discussion of the inner thoughts of women of this nature is forbidden, we can’t collectively come to any broad understanding of how the female psyche affects political events such as this. But I wouldn’t be so sure that “western” women are uniformly repulsed by men who would oppress women. Or even that they’re uniformly repulsed by what happened to Laura Logan, if we’re being truly honest.

Take a trip to Dearborn, MI, home of the USA’s largest Persian and Arabic populations. See how many white women you see walking around with Muslim ( Iraqi, Persian or Turkish) guys. Then see how many Muslim (Iraqi, Persian or Turkish) women you see walking around with white guys. There’s an eye-opener.

That’s one thing that clueless white nationalist men and simpering make-nice liberal men have in common: neither has any clue as to how the female psyche operates. And this ignorance has direct, long-lasting, and sometimes catastrophic effects upon their lives.

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W.F. Price October 3, 2012 at 12:32

There are plenty of counter-arguments to be made – history is replete with societies characterized by authoritarian / hierarchical governments AND religious institutions.

-MKP

Yes, I’m sure there are plenty of examples, but my hunch is that this is still the exception rather than the rule. I don’t think tyrannical societies tend to have a very long lifespan (nor do overly permissive or egalitarian ones), and I’d guess that the most stable regimes achieve a working balance between authority and egalitarianism.

TFH October 3, 2012 at 14:48

Remember that Islam gives women gina tingles….

Once one recognizes this, much is easily explained….

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freebird October 3, 2012 at 15:30

This has to get your best article ever Price.
It’s becoming quite clear the rad-fems will not stop seeking unjust power over societal regulations until total supremacy is achieved.

The loss of due process,Constitutional protections under the Bill of rights,and the mandate to the colleges are just the beginning of the supremacist agenda.

The judges,courts and cops violate the oath they took daily,the federal funding buys off their consciences.

SAVE services reports one million false DV allegations per year,judges sign un-Constitutional ex-parte orders without any consideration for due process or presumption of innocence.

Cops now enter homes to check upon children escorted by rad-fems (CPS) taught by wymyns studies in the schools.

Men have lost the Right to their own flesh and blood children,nothing could be a greater violation of basic human rights.
No wait, there is a greater violation,one that we may well see-Gulags in American for political dissidents that have the radical notion that men are human beings with fundamental rights.

Men have been pushed from the teaching profession by this heinous misuse of false allegation,children learn in jail-house secure schools taught by castrating rad-fem teachers that drug any boy still showing signs of masculinity.

There is a word for this process: it’s called GENOCIDE.

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wobbegong October 3, 2012 at 15:34

Remember that Islam gives women gina tingles….
Once one recognizes this, much is easily explained….

So true TFH! I’ve worked with our muslim population. Never ceased to be amazed by silly anglo saxon bimbos lining up to be chattel. Their chinese, viet and indian counterparts wisely stayed away but the anglo’s couldn’t get enough of abusive musselman thugs.

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freebird October 3, 2012 at 16:05

The lesbian rad-fem agenda obtains more power by infiltrating the Supreme Court,churches,law professors,law makers,local governing boards that fund police organization,NGO’s self funded by the government engaging in hysterical media sockpuppetting to brainwash the masses into accepting more and more draconian measures against men.

The constant indoctrination that all men are rapists,pedophiles,and abusers is being assimilated into the collective conscience of the nations.

They would have us believe men are so heinous as to justify these extra-legal measures,when the truth is those men in power benefit financially and by gaining power.

This process of demonization is identical to past dictatorships that sought to eliminate entire demographics.

In Cambodia it was Pollpot,In China it was Mao,in Germany it was Hitler,in Russia it was Stalin and Lenin.
The list goes on and on,the methods and results identical.

Note the systematic mandatory unConstitutional disarming of the target demographic.

Note the special training of the Police by military to exempt women and target men as defacto combatants.

Note the disenfranchisement of men from any legal recourse or social safety nets that a freely available to women.

Note the refusal of the rad-fems to concede the facts on the ground as they stand.

Note the intolerance of the rad-fems against any questioning of the narrative or agenda.

Soon the 1st amendment will be modified by “hate lawz’ that make dissent illegal.

There is less and less safe ground to retreat to,less and less cause needed for convictions.

I’m glad I did not bring a son into this world,he would have a very hard time.

The rad-fems will stop at nothing short of total domination and elimination of any natural rights that men once had.

They have waged war on Justice,truth,Christianity,and the basic premises the legal foundations of civil society.

First we seek to avoid persecution,once it is unavoidable we will have no recourse except to fight by any means at hand.

Expect harsher lawz and greater taxes,more media hysteria to justify a burgeoning police state.

Only the upper caste is safe,they have theirs and seek to consolidate total power under any pretense,whether it be
“for the children” or “for national security.”

Those rebelling against will be labeled domestic terrorists.
Those engaging in mens rights already know to expect police interaction as the wymyn rightfully assume arrogant ‘above the law’ type power by playing perpetual victim.

The worst thing of all is that the climate of hysteria has forced men to abandon teaching and helping young men along.

They are young men without a country.
Yet they are brainwashed and expected to go fight in overseas wars for “rights” of foreign populations whilst having none at home.

The land of the free and home of the brave?

Quite the opposite.
The founding fathers would be spinning in their graves.

Since open opposition is dangerous,and ghosting not enough,men should be throwing monkey wrenches into the machine that destroys them at every opportunity.

Just like the Jews that sabotaged the fuses on Hitlers bombs.
(%100 of those fuses came from the US corporation known as ITT)

We’re all Warsaw Polish ghetto dwellers now,resistance is the only answer.Fight whilst you still have hope to win,or you may have to fight even when you will lose,because it would be better to fight and lose than live on the knees.
Winston Churchill knew the score.

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Anonymous October 3, 2012 at 16:37

You have an interesting view of Christianity and Islam. Not that I’m an expert or anything (I only have a minor in ancient western civilization and have a passing hobby in religions), but I have been a solid participant of the Christian faith since infancy and as I understand, you neither promote or demote Christianity.

Becoming an imam doesn’t require the approval of bishops or a formal process, but rather popular recognition of one’s wisdom and spiritual authority…For Christians, the hierarchy of the church provided the necessary order, giving people a sense of their proper place in the world.

Where both the modern and roman churches observe a hierarchy and there is an “order” promoted by scripture as far as living things are concerned (God, husband, wife, children, animals), the ordination of bishops is not required or necessary in Christianity. Timothy was not an ordained priest and Peter wrote that we are all high priests in the church – all having the same access to scripture. Just because the Roman Catholic church of olde obfuscated and perverted that point does not make Christianity a “hierarchical” religion.

Muhammad was a populist prophet; he declared all men equal under Allah.

As does Christianity – neither man or woman, slave or free, rich or poor when standing under the cross of Jesus Christ. It is one of the reasons why historians believe slaves (both during the Roman empire and America), the poor, and (ironically) women were such hotbeds and promoters of Christian faith. These people are often credited with the rapid spreading of Christianity.

I think feminists promote islam because it isn’t “western” and they really don’t have a damn clue. It doesn’t matter, really, because once islam is the religion du jour, feminists will start railing against it like they do Christianity but they won’t have a voice to say nay anymore.

@Keyster
Feminists hate Christianity because of the abortion issue first and foremost. After that comes the “civil rights” of gays to marry, or recognition of marriage as something other than between a man and woman. (It really vexes the Left to hear Ahmadinejad criticize homosexuality.) Gay marriage implies men and women are equal, and many feminists are lesbians.

No. Feminists hate Christianity because wives are told to submit to their husbands. End of story. No more to be said. The rest is just icing to their pre-made cake, cherry preserve spread to the cherry pie. Everything started with wifely submission – voting, domestic abuse, working/earning money. Abortion is simply another rebellion against submitting to the consequence of being with a man. And homosexuality just further distorts, perverts, marginalizes, and discredits the idea of wifely submission, because in a homosexual relationship who is REALLY the wife?

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MRAwesome October 3, 2012 at 16:39

Great article. I learned a lot…

Sure makes Western foreign policy (especially under the Hillary Clinton State Department) look particularly ignorant and hubristic, doesn’t it?

We are spending hundreds of billions of dollars into something we don’t understand, seeking an outcome that is far harder than US strategies realize..

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Rebel October 3, 2012 at 16:52

@freebird,

If what you say is true, then there remains only one way out and it is to flee.
South America might be a good place to find refuge and to to prosper.

I know that there are quite many American males living down there.

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Fubsy October 3, 2012 at 16:55

Dictators seem to be a girl’s best friend, more so than diamonds, lol.
Libya, Egypt and Syria are going to prove that yet again. It’s time to increase investments in Burka factories!

recall the words of feminazi congresswoman Patty Murray a decade ago that Osama bin Laden is popular in poor countries because he helped pay for schools, roads and even day care centers. (BS, but BS she actually believed)

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LBK October 3, 2012 at 18:02

If Muslims are rolling back feminism, that is a good thing. I support that. Why are some of you complaining about it?

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LBK October 3, 2012 at 18:11

I would love to see spoiled western women subjected to strict Sharia law. If Islamists want to oppress womem, that is fine with me. I refuse to make any effort to defend women from Islam.

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Ecclesiastes October 3, 2012 at 18:21

@Price

You couldn’t BE more wrong about Islam having a ‘democratic’ nature.

I’m not going to waste any time trying to convince you of anything regarding Islam. What I will do is recommend a way to investigate it.

DON’T listen to what Muslims say to non-Muslims or what non-Muslims say to non-Muslims.

DO listen to what Muslims say to Muslims.

DON’T try to analyze it in the way of Western civilization. Don’t try to relate elements of it to institutions and practices of the West.

DO try to understand it in the Muslim paradigm. Accept it as it IS.

You have no idea how deeply ingrained the Greek contribution to our society is. Analysis, thesis, antithesis, synthesis, these are all Greek concepts that Islam is without. Remember that movie ’300′ about the Spartans?

Islam doesn’t come apart. There isn’t any difference between religious Islam, political Islam, nor military, legal, social, or in any other way. Differentiating any one from another is like sorting CDs into two stacks – round verses flat. It’s arbitrary, misleading, and a tactic of Jihad to encourage us to try.

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Attila October 3, 2012 at 19:08

I would point out that the Wahabi/Saudi model that we see in the mainstream media is not representative in the least. On average, there is a bigger cultural gap between a typical Saudi and a Moroccan- than between a Southern European and a Moroccan, Algerian. Iranian or a Turk. The one critical point that is not up for discussion in Islam is the father’s role as ultimate head of the household. Respect for older folks too- is sacred. I know of adults in their 50s who would not dare smoke in front of their parents.

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hv October 3, 2012 at 20:00

I don’t know some of you people get this notion that feminists aren’t critical of Islam and women’s rights there. Most feminists hate Islam and hate Muslim and Arab patriarchal culture, and are harshly critical of it, just as they are harshly critical of Christianity and patriarchy in the West. Now certainly at this point in time, the secular West is far “ahead” of the Muslim world because Christianity was forced to moderate itself post-Enlightenment, and feminism helped to liberate many women from patriarchy. Feminists will argue this battle in the West continues but will concede things are much better for women now thanks to feminism. Western feminists might focus most of their attention to criticizing examples of cultural oppression of females and double-standards in the West but that is because they live in the West, and bear the brunt of those policies and “sexist” or double-standard norms.. but this doesn’t mean they aren’t as critical, and even more so, of the far worse conditions of women in other parts of the world, especially in the Middle-East and the Islamic world. I can easily find lots of examples of Western feminists being harshly critical of Islam and male patriarchy in the Middle-East. I can post examples if you’re too lazy to find them.

What puzzles me about some of the reactions of people here is that you seem to be anti-feminist and yet you attack the Muslim and Arab world for keeping women in their place, which yes, sometimes unfortunately requires violence because ultimately, that is the only thing that will work. The manosphere is full of “analyses” about how feminism is destroying the West and ruining Western civilization.. you don’t seem to consider the fact that perhaps the only way to fight feminism is by threat of violence by men. Nothing else will work. You can write long articles about how feminism is detrimental to society and might cause all sorts of problems but that will not make women give up their rights or their freedoms, sexual or otherwise. Once you give women equal rights, you end up precisely with the problems you lament about in the manosphere.. you might want to consider minding your own business in the West. Muslim men know feminism and giving women equal rights isn’t in the interest of the average man, and clearly as the social experiment in the West demonstrates, equal rights for women is a disaster in many ways for most men. See the following articles by women in the Islamic world starting to question and fight male-patriarchal attitudes and cultural oppression:

1) ““When a woman is the sum of her headscarf and hymen … then nakedness and sex become weapons of political resistance”

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/9105/nudity-niqab-and-the-illusion-of-free-choice/

2) Beirut’s “Carrie Bradshaw”: tired of women being seen as mothers, daughters, lovers, wives, properties, accessories

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/joumana-haddad-arab-women-have-been-brainwashed-7804762.html

Give women an inch, and they will demand a mile. I suggest you Western men here who seem to hate feminism after letting women walk all over you and emasculate you kindly STFU and don’t lecture the Muslim world about how to deal with their women. They know what is in their interests. Do you?

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Jaego October 3, 2012 at 20:05

The less logical people are, the more arbitrary their decsions. Often when they think are making real changes, they are just making lateral moves. Someone leaves Christianity because it’s so authoritarian – and then joins a Cult that is much more so. But they don’t see it because it is something different than what they endured as children. And also, it is much more personal and interesting perhaps, with direct contact with the charismatic leader.

Likewise with some Lesbians. I read an interesting article once by a woman who was talking to Lesbians in a bar. The dyke partner came over to say goodbye to her girlfriend, pulling her head back by her hair to kiss her goodnight. The journalist said to her, you would never accept that kind of behavior from a man, especially in public. The Fem admitted that was true. So she had become a lesbian to get away from brutal male behavior and now accepted more brutal behavior from her dyke friend. Somehow she had bad experiences with men and the mechanical part of her mind was averse to them. So she compensated by accepting the nearest possible alternative to men.

Likewise with converts to Islam: after 9/11 I went to some lectures about Islam. They were recruiting and the Americans were simpering and acting like slaves. At some level, they liked that Muslims had attacked their country and now wanted them to convert. As Bin Ladin said, if you see a strong horse and a weak horse, you will like the strong one better.

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Huck Finn October 3, 2012 at 20:15

We are in the third cycle of the rise and fall of the centralized Islamic caliphate government. The long term trend is in the direction to re-build the caliphate that spans the Muslim world and re-instate Sharia Law. The fall of the Arab pro-west regimes might lead to Sharia Law or simply greater influence by fundamentalists. Either way it is not a good trend for the West. I do find it somewhat amusing that the Arab Spring is coming about to scale back some inroads of feminism in the Arab Muslim world.

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gunner451 October 3, 2012 at 20:34

You should ignore what people say about themselves and look instead at what they do. Only then will you find out what they really stand for.

If you look at most Islamic countries you’ll see that they do not lean towards anything remotely resembling the west. They gravitate towards dictatorships that brutally suppress any and all opposition. Most people in Islamic countries live in abject poverty with only the well connected elite having any real wealth or freedom. It’s not all bad, at least in Islamic countries they know the true nature of women and that if their sexual nature was allowed to freely express itself they’d bring the whole Islamic world down and so keep them under firm control. Islam does not respect weakness and those that are perceived to be weak are not treated well.

It’s interesting that it was Protestant Christianity that made Democracy what it is today but also sowed the seeds of it’s own destruction by elevating women onto a pedestal and then allowing them to vote. Once they were given that privilege they promptly started voting for the destruction of all that Protestant Christianity had built and stood for.

Roman Catholicism on the other hand (as witnessed in all nations south of the US) tends to bring about a generally corrupt and dictatorial government that don’t tend to respect property rights too much. Whereas those nations dominated by eastern religions have very different governmental structures as well (Japan is not really representative of the as the US set up their current government after WWII).

The now mostly secular west hangs on to a hollow form of democracy that is leaning towards fascism and/or communism and is very matriarchal and wholly corrupt in a way that is unlike other corrupt cultures in that the corruption is only available to those at the top where elected leaders are bought and sold by the elite. That contrasts with most of the other corrupt cultures (especially south of the border) where corruption is quite pedestrian and available to anyone (simple example a few $20 get you out of a traffic ticket in Mexico, try that in the US and you’ll be going to jail but $20,000 to a major party will buy you a law that exempts your company from costly regulations/taxes).

Bottom line is that it matters what people believe as that belief system will manifest itself in how people organize themselves and behave both individually and corporately.

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K October 3, 2012 at 20:35

“I think the reason that political democracy developed in Christian societies is that the hierarchical nature of the church allowed the emergence of more egalitarian governments.”

Interesting idea. The Nobel Economics laureate Douglass North actually argued that it was the hierarchical nature of the catholic church and the resulting hierarchical structure of Latin American and mediterranean European countries which held them back economically in comparison to the predominantly protestant North European and Anglo-Saxon countries – Protestantism being more decentralised with its focus on individual faith as the wellspring of salvation. These ideas go back to Max Weber and Werner Sombart’s arguments over the spirit of capitalism of course.

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justeunperdant October 3, 2012 at 20:41

@hv

The manosphere is full of “analyses” about how feminism is destroying the West and ruining Western civilization.. you don’t seem to consider the fact that perhaps the only way to fight feminism is by threat of violence by men.

Finally someone is saying it , no more analysis is needed. It is time to install some kind of social structure that oppress women.

The things are failing apart really fast and we cannot afford waste anymore just to please women.

If this does not convince you, well you are free to live in fantasy land:

California Gas Stations Begin to Shut on Record-High Spot Prices

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-03/california-gas-stations-begin-to-shut-on-record-high-spot-prices.html

From the link above:

Gasoline station owners in the Los Angeles area including Costco Wholesale Corp. (COST) are beginning to shut pumps because of supply shortages that have driven wholesale fuel prices to record highs.

Egypt has 80 million people on a small piece of land and import all
its food. Try to keep social peace when women are going around and demanding all kind of stu?id shit.

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tiredofitall October 3, 2012 at 23:28

“But still feminists live in a fantasy world in which democracy and female supremacy are one and the same.”

You could have just ended that sentence eight words in.

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walking in hell October 4, 2012 at 00:26

Price, this is really brilliant. You are writing in a space that puts you up there with Paul Craig Roberts and others, put your perspective is completely unique. I would like to see your articles on other websites.

As the truth of the American man’s terrible position in society become more well known, and the macro fraud (American dream) becomes more debunked as America collapses, I think your writing is going to appear to a global audience.

We are truly at the juncture of a clash of civilizations. We as American men need to take a hard look at the country we were born in and how it treats us and other men of the world, Vs other countries who are more democratic and better for men (Muslim countries) and make a choice of who to support with our beliefs.

You have illustrated this brilliantly. Congratulations, you are getting better by the week.

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walking in hell October 4, 2012 at 00:35

@hv
“What puzzles me about some of the reactions of people here is that you seem to be anti-feminist and yet you attack the Muslim and Arab world ”

I don’t. I am Christian and the most honest men I know are Muslim. Muslim men actually treat their wives very well; in many cases, too well.

I support Shariah law, and I think harsh punishments against women for crimes like adultery, taking children, etc, are the only way to manage a society. Public beheadings, stonings, and lashings send a strong signal to the morally inferior sex (women). They need to be constantly reminded of how rotten they are, and how if they don’t contain that rotteness, punishment will befall them.

I think the some aspects of Shariah are too generous to women; for example, a dowry. No woman deserves one.

Also I think a woman’s word should not be worth half as much; I think it should be worth Zero, or even have negative value, and therefore women should not be allowed to speak in public or private unless told to.

I also don’t believe a woman should ever have any custody of the children in divorce. Shariah law is way too generous here, and typically gives women custody until the child is 7 or 13 depending on the country. This is criminal.

If the man wants divorce, he should say if, when, and where, he wants his children to have contact with their mother.

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Brad October 4, 2012 at 00:43

In Greece, the Golden Dawn Party is on the rise currently. This party has the support of 22% of Greeks now and the Greek police refer people to Golden Dawn because they don’t have the funding to do anything about crime. Golden Dawn’s support, according to media reports, is much higher among women than men. By the way, Golden Dawn are neo-Nazis who have a red party flag with a swastika logo. This is another case of women supporting dictatorial regimes.

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walking in hell October 4, 2012 at 00:49

@Fubsy
“Dictators seem to be a girl’s best friend, more so than diamonds, lol.”

This is brilliant. The reason dictators are a girl’s best friend is because dictators come to power pandering to the most naive and gullible parts of the population. Who is that? Women of course.

Nothing has changed since Eve was duped by Satan. Women still bring the most stupid ideas home and choose to behave in ways that destroy society, just in the same way as Eve’s stupid idea helped denigrate creation.

This is the reason why smart Abrahamic religions, that are correctly practiced (not American Christianisy) give women NO say in shaping society and NO power.

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Ode October 4, 2012 at 04:55

If what you say is true, then there remains only one way out and it is to flee.
South America might be a good place to find refuge and to to prosper.

If we go back to the 1980′s the US dollar was king and there were plenty of 3rd world nations friendly to western expats where you could of gotten 10 times the value on the dollar. You could of bought a house, a maid, a cook, and a prostitute for 10% cost.

Sorry buddy those days are long gone. Thanks to globalization the world has gone flat and labor arbitrage is not as extreme as it once was before. For example a typical Chinese factory worker now makes 20% of what an American makes. Gone are the days when it was only 5%. Real estate in Mumbai now costs more than NYC or London. A prostitue in San Jose, Costa Rica will cost you $100. But once you add in hotel an airfare to get down into central america is it really THAT much cheaper? No.

My advice to men out there is to just hunker down, save your money, and stay where you are. If you can live with your parents and get cheaper rent then do it. Just learn to keep your mouth shut because talking about politics just pisses people off and there’s no advantage to that IRL. Don’t move unless you get a job offer that is worth it.

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MKP October 4, 2012 at 06:38

@ hv

“I don’t know some of you people get this notion that feminists aren’t critical of Islam and women’s rights there.

It’s not that they aren’t critical of it. Feminists are critical of virtually everything. It’s that they continue to espouse policies that make fundamentalist, woman-oppressing Islam stronger. That either indicate an utter lack of logic, or a hidden desire to see fundamentalist, woman-oppressing Islam grow stronger.

“Feminists will argue this battle in the West continues but will concede things are much better for women now thanks to feminism.”

I’ve never heard feminists concede any such thing.

“Western feminists might focus most of their attention to criticizing examples of cultural oppression of females and double-standards in the West but that is because they live in the West, and bear the brunt of those policies and “sexist” or double-standard norms.

I seriously know a girl who used to sound EXACTLY like you. She said pretty much that ^ exact same thing in conversation after conversation. Good girl – smart, well-read, from a good family. She went to high school with me, I think she was a year ahead.

You know what happened to her? Her brother was falsely accused of rape and sent to prison for 18 months, until his accuser finally decided to come forward and tell the truth. After 18 months in prison, he was released. Now, this girl HATES any kind of talk like that. She would pour a drink in your face if you gave her that “fight the patriarchy” bullshit. And there are thousands more like her. And more every day.

“What puzzles me about some of the reactions of people here is that you seem to be anti-feminist and yet you attack the Muslim and Arab world for keeping women in their place.

I never criticized “the Muslim and Arab world” (a rather imprecise phrase), but it doesn’t matter what I think. I’m just one guy on the internet. What matters is whether the Muslim / “patriarchal” means of controlling women is coming to our shores. And I can assure you, it is.

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The Geezer October 4, 2012 at 07:06

Nuf said

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keyster October 4, 2012 at 09:32

No. Feminists hate Christianity because wives are told to submit to their husbands. End of story. No more to be said.

I’m not sure what Christian church you’ve been to lately but there are none I’m aware of that condone wives submitting to their husbands, and it there were they wouldn’t last long. If anything the modern Christian church promotes deference to wives, as in women owning the moral high-ground. In the HISTORY of Christianity this is a new development. Trust me on this; nothing takes precedence over the abortion issue, and feminism’s biggest enemy is the evangelical/religious right to lifers.

You don’t see feminists protesting Christianity because it’s telling women to submit to their husbands. They’ve already coerced the church to ignore the Bible and “adapt” the narrative to be more egalitarian. Now they need to convince the anti-abortion Christians to shut up.

The “war on women’s reproductive health” is the Marxist/Leftist Feminist vs. the Evangelical/Conservative traditionalist. As far as women submitting to their husbands; that ship sailed 100 years ago. Only certian obscure sects such as the Amish still actively practice it.

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Gamerp4 October 4, 2012 at 10:01

Bravo! Mr Price Bravo.

I didn’t read any of the comments up there and I am a socialist and liberal myself and a Muslim (Which i don’t intend to say here as i see every men here as a brother, whether christian, Jews, Hindu or any other religion), but truly your words do have a reason behind it, feminist don’t like any religion whether it be Christianity, Islam, Jews or Hinduism, there only intent is to destroy the society by pitching the women against the men, i already know this because i have been to many place before, I have been to Libya myself and have seen feminism thrive under the rule of Muammar Qaddafi, have seen it in the rule of Hosni Mobarak.

I once again say that your words have a deep thought in them, which is sure to be seen happening right now around us.

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Sun October 4, 2012 at 14:43

Very interesting and complex piece. Hopefully the idiots won’t devolve this into another atheist vs theist piece. And we can’t talk about the philosophical ideas behind movements.

My understanding is a little different

Christianity had some hierarchical structure only and so far as materialism (or physical reality) goes. There is a pope, a cardinal, a bishop, etc. Who, due to their position, are better to communicate with the divine (note: we are really talking about Catholicism which is the dominate Christian sect).

However, metaphysically speaking, everyone (regardless of status) is equal under god. Any sin committed, at least in theory (and preached), is equally wrong regardless of the mortal soul.

Now has there been documented double standards among the priest caste and the common clay? Yes. But based upon pure theoretical doctrine. Christian Egalitarianism stems from its metaphysical understanding of the soul. “We are all god’s children.” Is a common saying among Christians.

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Sun October 4, 2012 at 15:10

I don’t know if I would say that Islamic countries are democratic. Most Middle Eastern countries tend not to be democratic in part because democratic systems are very ineffective. There is a constant war and faction infighting in these countries.

The only way to end infighting is to have a top down system with a dictator to keep the various factions from killing each other. Iraq for example had Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds. I don’t believe that that is the only reason for such authoritarianism but it is one of them.

There tends to be family hierarchy within Islam, with wives submitting to husband (more so then in Christianity). However, the there is no actual formal hierarchy within the religious institutions like Mosques.

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Sun October 4, 2012 at 15:41

@ hv

Hi. I hope I can be of some service and answer some of your questions.

“I don’t know some of you people get this notion that feminists aren’t critical of Islam and women’s rights there. Most feminists hate Islam and hate Muslim and Arab patriarchal culture, and are harshly critical of it, just as they are harshly critical of Christianity and patriarchy in the West.”

I have to disagree. There tends to be pathological blindness on the side of Western Feminist to anything that happens to another culture, due to the primary conflicts found within current Liberalism.

Multiculturalism/multiracialism is a huge tenet of the Left and those who preach it often have double standards in which they criticize their own cultures/ethnicity from which they grew up in, but make cultural excuses for the way other people who are not like them do things. Any criticism of Islam is often met with accusations of “racism” and “generalizing too much.” The Left doesn’t like to generalize.

Cultural relativism is another aspect that really goes hand in hand with multiculturalism. Cultural relativism basically says that all cultures are equal and relative to each other. To criticize a culture (like Islam for example) is taboo, because all cultures equally are bad (as evidence can be found to support this), in the eyes of those on the Left.

This gives someone a sense partiality because people on the Left (which is more then just Feminism) feel that we are all universal in some way, shape, or form.

There are other factors such as geographical location. It is hard for Feminist located in this part of the world aware with what actually goes on (on an intimate level) in a part of world that they don’t live in. Reading (and other forms of media) only goes so far because one can read and then leave and go shopping. It is not a part of their daily life and immediate surroundings. So it is a “issue” that they take up on their spare time.

Another factor is, Feminist have been brought up in a region where the men are not aggressive nor dominant (as you mention later men are aggressive and dominant). Also, people (men and women both) in the West has been shaped by Liberalism whereas the Middle East has not (think of it as a social predisposition). They are a different ethnic group with an entire different culture, so different rules applies.

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imnobody October 5, 2012 at 08:19

@Sun nailed it.

Only a minor correction. When you say: “The Left doesn’t like to generalize.”, you should say: “The Left doesn’t like to generalize when the conclusions of the generalization go against their cherished myths”.

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JHJ October 7, 2012 at 04:13

@Sun: “There are other factors such as geographical location. It is hard for Feminist located in this part of the world aware with what actually goes on (on an intimate level) in a part of world that they don’t live in. ”

Actually, it’s not at all difficult. It’s just that feminist are female – well, the manginas as feminists too, but they take their marching orders from females – and so simply do not care about stuff that doesn’t impact precious little princess herself. If you seek evidence for female solipsism, the difference in position between feminism total unconcern in practice with Islam and general left-mongering’s anxious appeasement and apology attempts of it is all you need, really.

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Jason October 7, 2012 at 04:24

“feminists tend to see Christianity as the one force that must be destroyed.”

Replace “Christianity” with white male and you’d be correct. Women don’t don’t have a problem with christianity, they have a problem with white men.

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hmsspeedy October 8, 2012 at 12:32

Sun: Your explanation was bang on. Worth noting that these types are dogmatists, so Orwell wus right (doublethink, 2 + 2 =5); so most of what they say/’think’ is shot down by the ‘Ishmael effect’ of their lofty pronouncements being paradoxes that are logically self-defeating:-

‘You can’t generalise!’ is an absolutely full-on law-like generalisation;

Cultural/Moral Relativism ceases to be true if there is even one Culture that disbelieves in it (believing in any objective, universal right/wrong), right? ;)

Of course, ‘liberals/lefties’ tend to be malprogrammed, interchangeable drones merely following the scripts of the day; so lack the mental/intellectual tools to understand the above, then re-evaluate – luckily they can just auto-dismiss with ‘patriarchal mansplaining!’ The ol’ ‘Playing chess with a pigeon’ thing.

[Mr Price: I'm going to have you an email about the new comment system - no idea WTFs going on....] :(

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Modern Primitive October 9, 2012 at 22:13

IMO, you have Islam all wrong. And you come across as a christian, so your viewpoint is inherrantly biased.

I’m an athiest btw.

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Depravo October 13, 2012 at 08:25

Ecclesiastes:

- How does Western culture owe more to Hellenism than does Islam, which has controlled most of the classical Near East almost from the beginning of its history?

- Why does Hellenism have to imply democracy, given that fifth century Athens (which I assume is the model you have in mind) was in its form of government the exception, not the rule, and was chronically unstable even during its golden age? Let it not be forgotten the founder of Western philosophy was a diehard opponent of democracy.

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Frank in Seattle October 15, 2012 at 16:57

The global economy is a train wreck and it won’t get better anytime soon. Food, gas and housing costs are going up and up with it all we can do just to get by.
The I-Ching “Timewave Zero” prediction confirms what the Mayan calendar has already told us…that major changes to our world will occur in 2013.
http://www.familysurvivalcenter.com/news.htm#iching2012
Stop chasing material goals and get your priorities straight. Set aside food and supplies to provide for your family now.

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