How Men Make Out Without Traditional Family: Pretty Well

by W.F. Price on August 5, 2012

The NY Times has an article on four men who have lived together for the past couple decades, in apparent happiness. They are neither gay nor ideologically motivated; they simply prefer their chosen lifestyle.

New Yorkers in midlife crisis, meet the brotherhood of Fortress Astoria: Danaher Dempsey, Luke Crane, Rick Brown and Shyaporn Theerakulstit, best friends and artists.

They have no children, no linear career histories, no readily disposable savings. The four men, all heterosexual, approaching 40 and never married, have lived together for 18 years, give or take a revolving guest roommate, cohabitating in spaces like an East Village walk-up, a Chelsea loft and, now, a converted office space in Queens.

Their latest home, which they have nicknamed Fortress Astoria, takes up the second and third floors of a slate gray concrete block building with floor-to-ceiling windows on 31st Street. The setup is ideal for four bachelors. Bedrooms do not share common walls, and there are communal spaces both upstairs (huge television, sofa) and down (kitchen). There is a lovely garden out back tended by Mr. Theerakulstit.

New York, admittedly, is the kind of environment that tends to promote alternative living arrangements, but from a lot of men’s perspectives, their lives look pretty decent.

Splitting the rent four ways gave the roommates the economic freedom they needed to pursue their dreams. For Mr. Brown that meant making films; for Mr. Dempsey and Mr. Theerakulstit it was acting. Mr. Crane channeled his interest in fantasy into creating The Burning Wheel, a role-playing game he first published in 2002.

None have come close to making it big, although Mr. Crane is somewhat famous in the niche world of role-playing. But compromise has come hard.

For years, Mr. Brown dodged permanent video editing assignments for short-term gigs so he could write a screenplay and make a short film. But then, he said, he “crashed and burned” after investing 18 grueling months — and his savings — in the film, which received “disappointing” responses at various screenings. “I’ve kind of let go of the obsession and anxiety of expressing myself,” he said, “and just given myself permission to work and live.”

Mr. Dempsey at one point took a job as a data analyst at Pfizer that gave him health insurance and a paid vacation for the first time in his life. But he felt stifled by full-time office culture, preferring to work part time for a Web design company and pursue a career in the fitness industry while phasing out his acting career. “To my friends who were married and had kids, what I did was incomprehensible,” he said. “I knew that if I’d stayed, I’d probably be making tons of money, but I would have been unhappy.”

Soon he was completely eschewing Off-Off Broadway to become a personal trainer, and this fall he is to begin pursuing a degree in physical therapy. He said he felt insecure about his choices sometimes, but the benefits of his alternative, Fortress Astoria-based lifestyle have outweighed the losses.

“The freedom this has allowed me to have — to figure out my own quirks and foibles — has been much more important than investing in things that might have tied me down to something that would have kept me from figuring those other things out,” he said.

For many single men, one of the biggest problems is loneliness. For some, the solitary lifestyle is fine, but a lot of us will have to admit that it doesn’t suit us so well. These men have found a way around that, and perhaps their lifestyle is something that will be more common in the future, as more and more men realize that they can’t win in live-in relationships with women.

I’d recommend that young men who can find other guys they get along with and trust try a similar arrangement before living with a woman. It may not be as fulfilling as having a happy marriage and family, but it sure beats divorce and the solitude and poverty that all too often ensue. In fact, it might not even preclude having children, so long as you’re willing to work out a reasonable custody schedule with the mother, and you can always move out and start a family when you’re sure about it.

{ 91 comments… read them below or add one }

Anonymous Reader August 5, 2012 at 14:57

I once knew a man in his upper 50′s who had multiple ex wives. He owned nothing. Everything – the dwelling, his vehicle, his guns, etc. all was in the name of his female companion. That way his ex’s could not touch them.

I can’t help but wonder if we won’t see similar arrangements being made between older men – especially divorced men. This style of living could give men access to better levels of living without putting them at risk of more confiscation by the legal system.

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meistergedanken August 5, 2012 at 14:58

“For many single men, one of the biggest problems is loneliness. ”

This is SO true, and also sad. Once you get into your late 20′s, you see your friends less and less – they get married off or start having kids and now there are in-laws present during the holidays and it just sucks. You can’t just say, “hey, let’s go canoing on saturday” or “let’s catch a movie tonight”. For years, I have had a fantasy of recreating my college dorm, but writ large, with all my friends living on the same street, where the road is our former hallway. Well, good for those guys, I hope it is sustainable for them into their golden years, but the odds are stacked against them. Then again, nothing good ever lasts.

“In fact, it might not even preclude having children, so long as you’re willing to work out a reasonable custody schedule with the mother,”

Time to queue up “Three Men and a Baby”? I hope not – Shudder! But men do need to band together, and small groups like this can be effective in many ways.

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James August 5, 2012 at 15:08

I am 33, single, never married, no children and I have been facing the same circumstances over the last 3+years. I got dumped by the woman I was going to marry and have been single ever since. All of my friends had/having children and getting married or already married has left me alone on an island. The loneliness bothers me sometimes, but I am free to do whatever the hell I want whenever I want. I own and run my own business as well. If i want to go to Vegas or the beach, I can just close shop and take off.

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American August 5, 2012 at 15:16

This is the inevitable result of 10′s of years of institutionalized perversions into the American justice system.
Routinely letting women lie in our courts and to officers of the law, may give women alot of power over men in the beginning, but the long term effects will not be so favorable.
The perversions in American law enforcement that are making hetero-relationships in America a “legal liability” for men will eventually be devastating for hetero-women who want families with a father in them. This is what the average heter0-women does not fully understand, because all they are seeing on TV about gender politics is coming ( or being constructed by) the “Non-hetero” gender-feminist community.
These perversions in law enforcement that are letting women and girls routinely lie in our courts, and turning hetero-relations into a legal liability for men, are changing society quite rapidly, and in the end it will be the hetero-women and Americas children who will pay the greatest price.

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Rebel August 5, 2012 at 15:23

This is the beginning of a new trend and possibly of a new lifestyle.
The old way is dying off: a new pheonix is rising from the ashes. Who knows: this may be the way to recovery for men. And I am sure that this will please the feminists immensely.

In the end, there are always solutions to problems. This new lifestyle would appeal to me if I was of age. Freedom like men never had before.

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JFinn August 5, 2012 at 15:28

Most people are currently unmarried, so it shouldn’t be hard to make new friends. And you can recover half the friends you lost to marriage in a decade.

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TFH August 5, 2012 at 16:17

A single guy who is lonely needs just one thing :

Game.

The ability to do daytime approaches will quash loneliness instantly. Just get over the approach anxiety hump and at least that problem is never to plague you again.

Read Roosh’s ‘Day Bang’. Go to Badger’s blog to read the ’100 Approach Challenge’ too.

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Metsfan August 5, 2012 at 16:21

This is an awesome thread. These guys seem like the epitome of MGTOW men. What is amazing and radical in what these guys are doing, is that they do not need women. It has always been a fixture in society that a man needs a women to take care of him. Here are 4 guys that are handsome, seem to be relatively financially secure and yet are sort of avoiding women.These guys are definitely emblematic of the emerging yet under the radar “Men Going Their Own Way” movement.
This is not an anomaly. More and more men are choosing not to marry. Many men ages 25-45 are angry at women inasmuch as they feel women have always sought out the “bad boys” and rejected “nice guys’. What these guys are doing is amazing in a way. They are 4 guys that have sort of collectively stated ” I do not need a women to make me happy.”Moreover, they seek nurturing from each other as opposed to the belief that a man need a woman to nurture him. What these guys are doing is just the beginning. More and more men will decide not to marry and become MGTOW and live together in this type of arrangement. These are 4 handsome successful guys who have decided the bachelor just as fulfilling as the married life.

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Mercer August 5, 2012 at 16:24

“one of the biggest problems is loneliness.”

It is not a problem for me when I have a dog. Dogs are also far more loyal than humans.

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Zorro August 5, 2012 at 16:26

Once the male pill is available, women who want families will be utterly at the mercy of men, and men’s interests in fair and equitable marriage laws.

Gloria Allred hardest hit.

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NWOslave August 5, 2012 at 16:28

The unfortunate downside is you’re all still paying for women. Don’t forget taxes. And of course as of 9/01/12 added to your insurance is womens birth control that you are paying for. $600.00 every year for every taxpayer. You’re going to pay for women weather you like it or not. You’re going to pay for Title IX. You’re going to pay for VAWA. You’re going to pay for quota’s. You’re going to pay for welfare. You’re going to pay and pay and pay. The less you pay directly, the more you’ll pay indirectly. You don’t get off that easy.

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Johnycomelatley August 5, 2012 at 17:15

Shared accommodation seems to be a novelty in the west but in other parts of the world it is the norm, with whole families living together to share costs.

I think this is more of a case of changing economic realities in the west (low real wages growth and inflation) driving social change than personal choice.

Celebrating third world living choices doesn’t seem to be a cause for celebration at all.

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Justinian August 5, 2012 at 17:26

Paging Bill Bennett and Kay Hymenwitch….

Theres 4 men who need to “man up”, your shaming services are needed.

Seriously now,

I like the article, however these men seem to be of the starving urban artist variety of men that has always existed.

They aren’t exactly in a financial position to support a family.

I think the more important new phenomenon is the very financially successful man who is living alone.

I know a Surgeon and another rich business man who steadfastly refuses to get married due to financial risks.

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Paradoxotaur August 5, 2012 at 17:27

“one of the biggest problems is loneliness.”

Well, loneliness isn’t an issue only for men that are single. Many married men I know are incredibly lonely in their marriages. I’m guessing those marriages are also essentially without sex. I would strongly counsel against any man thinking that marriage is a solution for loneliness or involuntary celibacy.

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Rocco August 5, 2012 at 17:51

OT

More free advertising from the SPLC on your disposiblity of men articles with The Sprear Head featured prominent:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/08/03/mens-rights-activists-disdain-mens-sacrifice-in-colorado-shooting/

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GT66 August 5, 2012 at 17:56

Today we witness proof of the existence of the American grasseater. These dudes have it right.

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Darryl X August 5, 2012 at 18:16

@ TFH -

Game is nothing but a way to manipulate a woman’s stupidity and has no place in the MRM and is of no value to real men. No real man would want to be with a woman who would fall for such bull-shit. Remember: those who manipulate are easily manipulated. When men start using such “techniques” to pick up women, all they are doing is corrupting their own minds and the minds of the women to whom they apply such things. And they are perpetuating feminism and any justification for it. It’s reprehensible. What game promotes is what male enablers of women (feminists) in our government do on an institutionalized scale and why we are in this mess in the first place.

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Darryl X August 5, 2012 at 18:21

@ Paradoxataur -

Yeah loneliness in marriages is a problem. I agree. But it likely doesn’t have anything to do with sex. It has to do with not having a companion you can trust and with whom you can have a good conversation. Marry someone with whom you can have a good conversation because sex will not be all that important as you age. Unfortunately, women are so manipulative and full of so much crap and so dishonest and untrustworthy, finding one with whom you can have a good conversation is unlikely. So, yeah, most men are pretty lonely in marriages. They look for sex either from their wives or from another woman to self-medicate that loneliness with but it is only a drug like any other drug to which you may and likely will become addicted. Too bad couples no longer invest in real meaningful relationships anymore based upon intellectual sharing. That’s the result of feminism. It killed any kind of relationship between a man and a woman and just turned it into a drug addiction which our leaders can manipulate for their own benefit and the disadvantage of everyone else.

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Metsfan August 5, 2012 at 18:25

Some female named ssink commented on this article criticizing and shaming the unmarried men. Here is her comment
“of course they’re happy. But it’s just more delayed adolescence. You’re supposed to look back on those days living with bandmates with fondness and nostalgia, but you’re also supposed to move on! The parade of girlfriends (to prove they’re straight? Not losers?) is what’s sad to me– quit fooling around and get married and have children already!”
That is the problem. Many women still view men who choose to remain bachelors and/or avoid females as immature.Here are 4 relatively handsome and successful guys who are happy bachelors and they get shamed from women for not marrying. This article is an great article and exemplifies the male version of Kate Bolick. While women who choose to remain single like Kate Bolick get praised, men who choose to reject women and stay single get shamed. It is a double standard.

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TiredGuy August 5, 2012 at 18:26

That is great news Rocco, after all, any publicity is good publicity. And I truly believe that this is becoming more the case in the internet age – after all, people ‘open link in tab’ all the time, which exposes more people to the message all the time.

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Attila August 5, 2012 at 18:38

I have lived alone for 3 decades and it’s been great. Regarding “friends” – wake up! — true friends are once or twice in a lifetime- everybody else is a “fair weather” or situational “friend”. Here today- gone tomorrow. The real test for me when was my father died—not a SINGLE male friend called me or came by to visit — and the only one who stood by my side was a very religious half-Italian, half-Berber Muslim colleague – as well as a few black women at the office. Everyone else (the so-called Christians and Jews) couldn’t stay away far enough OR they would try to downplay or change the subject.

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Justinian August 5, 2012 at 18:52

Game is nothing but a way to manipulate a woman’s stupidity and has no place in the MRM and is of no value to real men.

To say nothing of those of us who want more than cheap sex.

My grandfather dying of cancer was surrounded by his children and grandchildren.

The nurses and doctors around him didn’t give a damn and my father was there to make sure he got his pain killers to make his death less horrendous once it became terminal.

If I ever get to that point I will be shit out of luck as old man.

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Common Monster August 5, 2012 at 19:06

I thought it notable that they still had to mention their financial status and (lack of) wherewithal… They do kinda seem like evidence for Hymowitz’s “frozen in adolescence” contention. Not that there’s anything wrong with it. It’s generally easier to try and be an entrepreneur/creative type when you’re in the midst of a group which is likeminded.

I’m actually surprised it took them so long to track down a concrete example for the purported existence of Guyland.

Is that guy’s name really Shy-of-porn?!

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Paul Murray August 5, 2012 at 19:11

The future is nonreligious monasteries. “Manasteries”. Nonreligious boarding houses owned jointly by the residents.

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W.F. Price August 5, 2012 at 19:27

More free advertising from the SPLC on your disposiblity of men articles with The Sprear Head featured prominent:

-Rocco

Oh don’t pay them any attention — nobody with any sense takes them seriously anymore. As I’ve said before, they’re the John Birchers of the left. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the original model Dees used to build up the organization. He was a very astute marketer, but at nearly 80 he’s essentially retired now, and it’s in the hands of petty bureaucrats.

Now it’s just a stagnant swamp: smelly, full of biting pests and gas, and best avoided.

Charles Martel August 5, 2012 at 19:32

Paradoxotaur
Well, loneliness isn’t an issue only for men that are single. Many married men I know are incredibly lonely in their marriages. I’m guessing those marriages are also essentially without sex. I would strongly counsel against any man thinking that marriage is a solution for loneliness or involuntary celibacy.

This. Marriage is just like being single except you get to live with a contemptuous cock-blocking roommate whose bills the law requires you to pay.

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W.F. Price August 5, 2012 at 19:34

The future is nonreligious monasteries. “Manasteries”. Nonreligious boarding houses owned jointly by the residents.

-Paul Murray

This might be the case. I think men ought to consider setting up fraternal trusts to acquire property and protect individual members from legal assaults/property seizure by wives and other agents of the state. It could work very well as temporary-to-permanent housing for students, bachelors and divorced men.

Charles Martel August 5, 2012 at 19:38

Paul Murray
The future is nonreligious monasteries. “Manasteries”. Nonreligious boarding houses owned jointly by the residents.

I’ve had the same thought. I’m not a developer but I’ve played with the idea of a mini-condo of four or five units sharing a swimming pool with a poolhouse/party room/barbecue pit.

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Gilgamesh August 5, 2012 at 19:59

As I’ve said before, they’re the John Birchers of the left. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the original model Dees used to build up the organization.

You’re probably right, Morris Dees used to do legal work for the KKK until he followed the money over to the other side (after the actual civil rights movement had already won.)

http://whatmenthinkofwomen.blogspot.com/2012/03/splc-morris-dees-and-kkk-i-kkkid-you.html

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Andie August 5, 2012 at 20:04

I think the more important new phenomenon is the very financially successful man who is living alone.

After this weekend, I can tell you a bit about this phenomenon.

Remember in a previous thread when I was discussing, oh so optimistically, our engineer friend who had found a really nice woman (25, nurse, owns her own home) who wanted to talk to him about her being a say at home mom if their relationship progressed?

Let’s call them Ben and Suzy.

So Ben was delighted that Suzy wanted to be a traditional wife and mother and let her know that the relationship was now moving from serious to Very Serious. He was ready to support and wife and family.

Within 24 HOURS (I kid you not) the following happened:

Ben and Suzy were over at our place for a BBQ, and as it was the traditional Guy’s Night Out, several other men (two married, including my husband, and four single) were over as well. Guy’s Night Out is a pretty important in our house – I do not text, call or ask questions. What the guys do is none of my business. I only know my husband is a much happier guy the next day, so I ask no questions and just enjoy how much he enjoys it.

Suzy decides she wants to tag along. I try to discourage her, but Ben figures this might be a good way for her to get to know his male friends, so they agree that Suzy can come along.

They decide on a destination. Suzy doesn’t like it. She pouts. She complains. She outright declares she is not going where they would like to go (a sport’s bar with awesome TVs to watch the Olympics).

They capitulate. They pick a new destination. She doesn’t like that one either. More pouting. A couple of the guys get mad and tell her to stfu. They go to their second choice anyway, and she sulks and refuses to talk to anyone but Ben.

Now this is the real capper for me: my husband and a colleague start discussing some technical aspects of an actuarial case they are all consulting on. No, it’s not the most fascinating conversation ever. I can follow it, but yeah, it’s not very interesting. And very technical.

She starts mocking my husband and his job. Making fun of his colleagues. Just being an a one fucking mega bitch.

They guys want to strangle her. For good reason.

In 24 hours, she morphed from this lovely, sensible woman into this unrecognizable harridan who thought it was JUST FINE to go out with seven guys and expect them to all cater to her whims and then MOCK their very well paid, highly valued jobs.

Ben gave her the boot the next day. We all cheered. He will continue to live with his partner-in-an-accounting-firm roommate for the foreseeable future.

And I am left stunned that I didn’t see it coming. She seemed perfect.

The guys here did NOT agree. And they were right.

Holy shit! You were so right.

Breaks my heart.

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greyghost August 5, 2012 at 20:33

One thing guys can do is get a place a put up a whore in or keep empty and set up to bring a chick over to screw. A little one bedroom apartment split between 3 or 4 guys to use as a fuck pad or crash pad if out drunk. We ( some cowokers of mine) came real close to setting that up. Wives started behaving better for some reason and the plan was shelved. But it would be perfect for a single guy passing himself off as married.
Those guys in the article are some MGTOW types with out knowing it. The part about them guys setting up their lives around freedom rather than money was cool. As I have aged I see the huge merit in that.

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greyghost August 5, 2012 at 20:43

Andie
That was a nice story with a big time tear jerker ending. PS tell the engineer budding do not hit that ass again,ever, in a few weeks maybe a month she will come around again and say she is sorry and try to get back with the guy. That will be when she gets knocked up. have his buddies get him an escourt or something anything to detatch him from her just to make sure the nasty bitch was not his last sex.

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39Joshua August 5, 2012 at 21:54

There’s also a good discussion of the NY Times article at Rod Dreher’s blog http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/boys-to-men-or-not-whatever/ for those who are interested.

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dannyfrom504 August 5, 2012 at 22:01

38 never married, retiring from the Navy in a little over a year. i’ll be living at hunting camp in southern La. ALONE. lol.

well me and my dog. i MIGHT meet a woman, i MIGHT NOT. really doesn’t matter to me anymore. women come and go like trians, i’m just not about to give one the chance to take all my shit.

honestly, the older i get the less i really care about being in a relationship.

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Brian August 5, 2012 at 22:07

@Andie

What city/state are you in? Does it have a lot of women who just snap overnight?

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Troll King August 6, 2012 at 00:06

@ andie

See, this is what guys like me(in my late 20s) have experienced my entire life.

This girl knew she had some control over the guy, then she found herself in a position where she wasn’t able to control him completely and she flipped her shit.

All a man has to do is find himself in a half dozen or so relationships with women like that, whether NAWALT or not, and he starts to distrust women as a whole. Hell, add ontop of personal experiences the experience and knowledge gained from watching friends and family go through this stuff or worse and pile that ontop of all the normal day to day misandry in our culture and, well, there are plenty of reason why guys are “bitter” or “misoginistic” or whatever.

@ the topic of OP

Look at George Clooney. How many times has he been ranked as a national sex symbol?

He was married and divorced in his earlier career and has sworn off marriage for life. Many hint that he is gay, maybe he is IDK, but I think it is simply women projecting their bitterness over knowing that they could never have a fantasy wedding with him come true.

If George Clooney can be fucked over by divorce, then what chance do us average joes have? Better to take a lesson and live life for yourself.

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Justinian August 6, 2012 at 00:36

If George Clooney can be fucked over by divorce, then what chance do us average joes have? Better to take a lesson and live life for yourself.

This is why I’m very skeptical of “married game” that alot of MRA guys talk about.

Alphas tend to get the most dates, but I personally haven’t seen too much correlation between alphaness and marital success.

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walking in hell2 August 6, 2012 at 02:15

I still think the best thing young American men can do is to work hard, travel, save, and eventually expat, although with a big caveat at how one should go about this.

With retirement systems looking more and more insolvent, and the dollar at risk, there is the questionable assumption of building any type of financial base in America at all.

If we consider the questionable financial base and the education debt problems in America, it may be a better option to expat before taking an American education. Possibly take an education in a new country that offers less expensive education and a better pension and social system from which to build a financial base. You might even find a good wife in your new country.

At least by permanently expatting, there is the chance to have a wife and a family. If things go bad in the new country, the man can come back to America and leave the wreckage behind and try again.

One thing to ponder is the wisdom of becoming entangled in any type of legal contract like marriage in any country where you build your financial base. For example, in Germany, a divorced woman is entitled to half her husband’s pension forever. Child support laws in Germany are atrocious. Ireland is full of German guys who have left Germany permanently so they can have a life.

In the mean time, while stuck in America, living with other guys is a least worst option for friends and savings.

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Rusty August 6, 2012 at 02:22

Something happened to me this weekend:
I live in a house-share, but while my housemates and I get along, we’re not really great friends and tend to spend a lot of time on our own in our rooms. So I wind up spending a lot of my time – essentially living – at my girlfriend’s place (it’s just that much nicer a house).

Then, this weekend, I went to visit my old uni mates who I’ve not seen in about a year. We lived together all through university, but when we left they went one way and I went another, and in the last five years I’ve never found an environment like that again: it was a real male space – completely geared towards men’s needs, sensibilities, and ideas of fun. It was an absolute fucking riot.

This weekend, I suddenly realised that I really, REALLY, miss that. Coming home, I was mildly depressed and slightly angry that I’d managed to take all this fun, postitive and MALE energy out of my life. I just… I don’t have that ‘hanging out with the guys’ thing any more, and I need to do something about that.

It’s a really important thing to have.

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ode August 6, 2012 at 03:53

Metsfan

That is the problem. Many women still view men who choose to remain bachelors and/or avoid females as immature.

If that is a woman’s definion of being “immature” then my long term goal in life is to hopefully become a 100 year old “immature” man.

As for the 4 men mentioned in the article, I respect their decison but that’s not for me. They are living a life of self emposed frugality. I’ve been there done that. Freedom doesn’t count for much when you don’t have any money. There was a time in my life when spending $7 dollars at a restaurant was a luxury that I could only afford to treat myself to once a week. I don’t want to go back to that lifestyle ever again.

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greyghost August 6, 2012 at 03:56

Justinian
Marriage game i don’t think was mant for taking a bride and living happily ever after. ( i threw up in my mouth typing that) Marriage game is for a man that is already married trying to survive the best he can.

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David G August 6, 2012 at 04:47

Love this thread.
I’ve had similar and even grander thoughts of what men could do if they banded together.
Imagine 50 men getting together and buying a small resort on the coast.
50 men x $50,000 = $2.5Million.
Or a 1000 men buying an island?
1000 men x $50,000 = $50Million.
That’s one of the reasons I like the film The Beach (though it’s doomed because it’s run by a matriarch).

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Manlyman August 6, 2012 at 04:52

A bit OT:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/08/03/wdr-tree-sex.html

Read the comments. They’re hilarious.

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John August 6, 2012 at 08:23

I live on my own, can’t see the point of ever living with a woman unless its for the whole “family thing”. Given what Ive been reading on sites like this and my own reading it seems the odds are not in my favour. Cousin recently divorced, obviously kicked out of home and gets visitation rights. Relatively amicable, but interesting he’s downsized his job! Not sure what rules are in UK, Ive heard in US you still have to pay based on your higher paid job, is that right?

Too much to lose and not enough to gain. Got a tidy sum of money behind me, would get eaten alive by any woman who felt I wasn’t quite right for her. Is the battle worth it? Not for me. Hey in an deal world I’d have three kids and be king of my castle so to speak, aint gonna happen. What I got prob beats most though, and I aint checking that in.

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zed August 6, 2012 at 09:28

Marriage game is for a man that is already married trying to survive the best he can.

Kind of like antiretroviral drugs being for people who have AIDS trying to survive the best they can?

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V10 August 6, 2012 at 10:41

@Charles Martel: “I’ve had the same thought. I’m not a developer but I’ve played with the idea of a mini-condo of four or five units sharing a swimming pool with a poolhouse/party room/barbecue pit.”

Daydreamed about that too. It could even be a moneymaker, and be comparatively dirt cheap for renters/buyers. My own requirements are pretty simple: clean and maintained, secure and in area you can walk the neighborhood without much fear during daylight, and reliable utilities. Now start stripping away the rest: manicured lawns and anal condo associations, exterior beautification and architectural controls, decadent landscaping and untold thousands spent on petty details like matching light fixtures.

Of course, the roommates are half the battle. In such close proximity, you’ve got to have people of like minds and interests, or at least enough innate courtesy and restraint to always be considering their neighbors, and enough responsibility and pride to keep up their share of the bills and common chores. My college roommates were fresh from high school, almost a decade my juniors, who’s lives revolved around getting absolutely shitfaced on their parents’ dime, and who literally regarded the common area as a dumpster.

The article doesn’t show many photos of the larger property, but it’s described as a drab office complex. Just a no-frills cube. That’s all some of us really need. Hell, that’s all I WANT, that and the freedom to convert the space as the mood and necessity dictates. Who cares if it looks like a bunker from the outside, when I’ve built an opulent home theater room inside? Who cares if there’s nothing but cracked pavement all around it, when I’ve planted a miniature forest on the roof?

Societal conventions have been under stark revision for years now. We are all quite familiar with the re-evaluation of marriage, of course, that it longer functions as intended. Rosy assumptions about economics are headed for a cliff, taking fantasies about social security with them. Just about everything you thought you knew has changed, even if it wasn’t a lie originally. So going back to the drawing board about what constitutes functional and enriching living arrangements is refreshing. Because white picket fences ain’t cutting it.

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Doc August 6, 2012 at 10:48

@Anonymous Reader
“He owned nothing…”

A better way to achieve the same thing – without the issue of putting everything into someone else’s name – is to create a “trust.” It is similar to the above, but if you have a lawyer as the administrator, and you as the beneficiary you have access to all of the assets but own none of them. I have cars, boats, houses and all of them are owned by the trust – I just have access to them…

From a female perspective I am not a viable target for the gold-digger (or marriage), although they don’t know that till after I’m sampled their assets to my heart’s content. :)

There are ways to play the game to your advantage, and just as in relationships, the same can be said for business. I have several of them, which look to be owned by a racially-beneficial owner – think female, black, disabled, veteran… It’s all legal – it has to be – but that way I get lots of contracts by playing the game… If you know the rules, you can always twist them to your advantage by just not playing as intended… (If you play as intended you will lose unless you are one of the ones the system is designed to benefit – if you aren’t, you just have to make it see as if you are… At least on paper…)

Marriage is designed to benefit women – if you don’t want to be a sacrificial-lamb, be a wolf in lamb’s clothing… :)

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beta_plus August 6, 2012 at 11:01

@ Troll King

George Clooney did an interview on NPR’s Fresh Air around the time of Syrianna. When asked about his divorce, he discussed it openly and with incredible class. However, you could hear the pain in his voice. By that time, he had been divorced for over a decade and it was before his big break, so his ex couldn’t get her hands on the spoils.

I don’t agree with Clooney politically, but I do think that he is a very classy guy and a good role model for men.

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Craig Himself August 6, 2012 at 11:44

And in a few years they can go in on one or two (or four or eight or sixteen) house-cleaning sexbots to take up that… workload… completely free of legal liability.

(Wow.)

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Craig Himself August 6, 2012 at 11:57

@Metsfan

“While women who choose to remain single like Kate Bolick get praised, men who choose to reject women and stay single get shamed. It is a double standard.”

I say I say: Well put, sir.

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Morrisfactor August 6, 2012 at 12:34

NWOSLAVE-

“The unfortunate downside is you’re all still paying for women. Don’t forget taxes. And of course as of 9/01/12 added to your insurance is womens birth control that you are paying for. $600.00 every year for every taxpayer. You’re going to pay for women weather you like it or not. You’re going to pay for Title IX. You’re going to pay for VAWA. You’re going to pay for quota’s. You’re going to pay for welfare. You’re going to pay and pay and pay. The less you pay directly, the more you’ll pay indirectly. You don’t get off that easy.”

And don’t forget Social Security. Men pay about two thirds of all funds put into SS but draw much less since we die five years earlier on average. SS mostly benefits women, paid for by men.

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zed August 6, 2012 at 13:27

She starts mocking my husband and his job. Making fun of his colleagues. Just being an a one fucking mega bitch.

They guys want to strangle her. For good reason.

In 24 hours, she morphed from this lovely, sensible woman into this unrecognizable harridan who thought it was JUST FINE to go out with seven guys and expect them to all cater to her whims and then MOCK their very well paid, highly valued jobs.

Ben gave her the boot the next day. We all cheered. He will continue to live with his partner-in-an-accounting-firm roommate for the foreseeable future.

And I am left stunned that I didn’t see it coming. She seemed perfect.

The guys here did NOT agree. And they were right.

Holy shit! You were so right.

Breaks my heart.

Believe it or not, Andie, it breaks mine, too. And, most people here would probably say I am the most cynical SOB out there.

From a Game perspective – and, I learned about Game mostly by losing it – yes, “the chat” was a shit test – and Ben failed it by caving in to her demands.

He also failed the 2nd & third shit tests by caving in her demands to invade male space, change the venue, and then to take it over and demand that it be run to suit her. At that point Suzy held Ben, and all his friends who failed to hold their frame, in complete contempt.

Now, the flip side of Game, which really messed with my head, is that the worse I treated a woman, the harder she became to get rid of. The ones who I absolutely detested, and did the best I could to run them out of my life, were harder to scrape off than bubble gum stuck to my shoe on a hot August day.

It really sucks that I can’t treat a woman that I like in a way that shows I like her. That really does break my heart. As does the fact that treating a woman with contempt seems to be the best way to make her attracted to you.

Thank God I’m in my early 60s and women my age are 20 years beyond the wall.

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Szebran August 6, 2012 at 13:37

This could be the new normal in the near future. Several of those guys have GF’s but they aint married & seems like they want to keep it that way.

ZORRO: “Once the male pill is available, women who want families will be utterly at the mercy of men, and men’s interests in fair and equitable marriage laws.
Gloria Allred hardest hit.”

Too funny!

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American August 6, 2012 at 14:09

The SPLC has been taken over by “white Gender-raunch”, who could not give a rats ass about poor southerners.

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zed August 6, 2012 at 14:17

While women who choose to remain single like Kate Bolick get praised, men who choose to reject women and stay single get shamed. It is a double standard.

It’s only shaming if the man accepts and shares the social values of wannabe-shamer. Shame is like a scalpel – it must be used sparingly, with finesse and skill. Used sparingly, I have seen women cut a man to the bone with it.

However, overusing it – and bludgeoning men with it, so that the intention of the wannabe-shamer shows clear malicious intent toward men, totally blunts its edge.

“Hey, that’s a nice white feather! Got any more? I’m making a headdress of them.”

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Attila August 6, 2012 at 16:49

There used to be a Starb&cks in the neighborhood- and every weekend- the tables would be taken over by different guys -almost all foreign (Greek, Syrian, Spanish, Algerian, ex-Yugoslavia, etc.). It went on for about 10 years- but when the shop closed- the entire social set simply disappeared. It was pretty unique in its genre- a real riot. Unfortunately – now all one finds in these places are yuppie androids and gyn-bots doing their homework on their Macs—totally depressing and asphyxiating.

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James August 6, 2012 at 17:38

56 comments on why I will remain single and refuse to get married !
lmfao
Thanks Guys.

In honor of the Manosphere. I will declare myself a “Divorce Attorney” after Law School. (Only representing MEN)
:-)

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MPL August 6, 2012 at 19:01

I’d really like it if we returned to the up/down vote system. I’ve already had to read through some off the wall posts that are getting approved. I’m sure a lot of people agree with me also. I’ve visited the site much less since the new format was implemented.

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Sam August 6, 2012 at 19:13

Great story. Maybe more men will see there is life beyond that of living with a narcissistic tyrant or being nothing but a financier for her desires.

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Charles Martel August 6, 2012 at 19:55

zed
It really sucks that I can’t treat a woman that I like in a way that shows I like her. That really does break my heart. As does the fact that treating a woman with contempt seems to be the best way to make her attracted to you.

I agree. I’ve come to think of women as brain-damaged men. Lacking any nobility of spirit, there’s just nothing there beyond the relentless pragmatism and self-interest. No great art, music, literature, philosophy, no innovation or creativity, nothing.

Everyone has their own reasons for being here. I developed a hard shell a long time ago. Before I did there was one particular woman who responded to my youthful openness, kindness and generosity with malice and cruelty. In the end she paid a very high price for her solipsism, but she left a scar I can still feel 30 years later.

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Charles Martel August 6, 2012 at 20:26

zed
He also failed the 2nd & third shit tests by caving in her demands to invade male space, change the venue, and then to take it over and demand that it be run to suit her. At that point Suzy held Ben, and all his friends who failed to hold their frame, in complete contempt.

Something that’s been running through my head lately is “you ARE Plan B.” Meaning any man that marries under Marriage 2.0 IS Plan B. Chris Rock figured this out a long time ago – “The #1 reason your woman is always mad? ‘Cause you ain’t her first choice!” Marry a woman with some sexual history and you’ll always be competing with the other men who didn’t want her and her frustrated hypergamous fantasies.

Suzy had decided to settle for Ben. Ben was her Plan B. Luckily for Ben she couldn’t even suppress her hypergamy for one miserable evening and her true feelings for Ben, Andie’s husband and the other boring guys came tumbling out.

So remember, if you’re thinking about getting married, you ARE Plan B.

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trashed August 6, 2012 at 21:05

To confirm the upcoming popularity of maleistaries, I surprisingly was asked by a friend, If I might be interested in living in one of his lake front condos he owns and rents only to males, 35 years old and older. He led thru a discription of these specialized pads he hadhad built to esspecially accommodate his older male clientel. I was told that he had the condo’s built in such a fashion, as to provide each man with his own private living/bedroom Suite + bath and private cooking nook. There were 4 such arrangements per house hold with a large common area den, extra large full sized kitchen,dinning area,and a large deck overlooking an enormous lake, in a very upscale area in Henrico Co. Virginia. (Short Pump Area) This was just a week ago ! He further told me that all of his rentals are arranged this way and his turn over is next to never, and if i were interested,That I should jump at this, soon,. I personally live very well, in my own hand crafted mobicile for almost next to nothing, and with a 90% disposable income, so traditional debt/housing is of NO INTEREST to me. I then went on to tell him about my situation in life and how I can (and do ) live anywhere I want, at any given moment, worry free, for next to $00.00 and I wouldn’t trade that “peace-of-mind” away for a Traditional- debt/worry and confinement, ever ! I could easily see the draw, of his offering, had I been less resorceful with lifes abundances and its options, as a solitary male, goes.

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zed August 6, 2012 at 21:36

Charles Martel
Something that’s been running through my head lately is “you ARE Plan B.” Meaning any man that marries under Marriage 2.0 IS Plan B.

Suzy had decided to settle for Ben. Ben was her Plan B.

So remember, if you’re thinking about getting married, you ARE Plan B.

An interesting story on this subject. A few years ago, the first woman I ever slept with got in contact with me, after not having spoken to each other for more than 30 years. Of course she was divorced, and of course that was because her husband was “abusive.”

In the 3 decades since I had seen or spoken to her, all the fights, all the screaming matches, faded from memory and left a residual faint glow in memory of my first lover.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, she is the only married woman I ever slept with. After I told her that, no, I didn’t want to marry her, ever, and made that point by moving out of state, she went out and found her Plan B. When I moved back to her state, we fell for the foolish fiction of the day that we could “just be friends” – or, at least I fell for it. That went on for a year or so, until one night she showed up at my door and quite literally “jumped my bones.”

There were lots of nuances to the situation. I was still pretty brainwashed into the notion that women were naturally monogamous, so I figured that since she had her husband, I was safe being around her. I did not have my defenses up the way I had them up around fat, obviously on-the-hunt, women. Having been lovers for more than a year, and still being barely out of my teens, she knew exactly which buttons to push and how to push them to rev my libido up to red line. And, a stiff dick really does have no conscience – particularly at age 21.

But, that conscience returned about 30 seconds after the “oh my god” moment. “Oh shit, oh dear, I have just fucked another man’s wife.”

I awkwardly sent her home, and her husband – not being a complete fool – knew that she was a “wet deck”, confronted her, and she “confessed.” I never understood any of this until I learned about Game. Then, it all made perfect sense. That was a shit test for him. If he had knocked her into the middle of next week, she would have probably fallen for him right then and there.

Well, in my best Jimmy Swaggart voice, I knew that “Ah had sennned”, and I made it quite clear to her than I never wanted to lay eyes on her again, and prayed that she and her husband would get beyond it.

Thirty-some years went by, and she got in contact with me via email. As soon as I responded, the sob story began, and my warm memories quickly evaporated. Her rationalization hamster was going for the gold when she told me that she married her husband as a favor to me – so she could “let me go.” That pissed me off due to the frame of mind I was in at the time, and I informed her that my freedom was not something that was hers to give or withhold.

Then, she blew me totally out of the water by telling me that if I had willing to have taken her back that night, she would have left her husband. Well, that REALLY pissed me off, until along came Roissy and an understanding of Game.

What her rationalization hamster really meant when she said she married her husband so she could “let me go” was that she married this guy so she “could let go OF me.”

Well, after that night I was always at least at around DefCon 2 any time I was around a married woman. I swore that I would never betray another man in that way again. And, I pretty much made it a practice to never be alone with one. That served me very well over the next 25 years or so, because married pussy always seemed to be on the table for the taking. And that, probably more than just about anything else, really compromised my ability to trust women in general.

So, looking back, I was the “Plan A that got away.” And, thanks to Roissy, I realized that was likely due to the fact that I never caved in to her attempts to manipulate me.

Now, the weirdest part – ever since I found out that she planned her seduction of me as part of a strategy to dump her Plan B, I have been an absolute and complete jackass toward her. But, she still sends me a trial balloon at least a couple of times per year to see if I have weakened.

Maybe I could run her off if I did a sudden about face and went completely Beta on her. Unfortunately, I am not a good enough actor to hide my very intense dislike for her.

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anon August 6, 2012 at 22:53

@Zed,

That served me very well over the next 25 years or so, because married pussy always seemed to be on the table for the taking. And that, probably more than just about anything else, really compromised my ability to trust women in general.

You may view “How to Get Someone to Dump You”, particularly the “wussy route”.
http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Someone-to-Dump-You

BTW, Zed, it has been long time since your last guest article here. It is always pleasant to read your writings. Keep it up!

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Nemo August 6, 2012 at 23:09

This is almost a cliche, but it’s on topic:

Women always choose to date @$$—-$, never nice guys.

Then women complain bitterly that every man they date is an @$$—-.

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Art Vandelay August 7, 2012 at 02:18

I think the more important new phenomenon is the very financially successful man who is living alone.

Well yeah with the guys in the article you could still chalk it off as necessity, although either of them might be able to find a smaller studio apartment. But even if you have the money to get that 4 bedroom space for yourself, why spend above $3k on rent? Just seems like a waste of money.

My situation is that I have a comparatively large apartment, which I use alone. I really don’t need all that space. I’d rather have a roommate type arrangement with someone of equal means, I could move to a better neighborhood and still save on rent and I wouldn’t have to live alone. There is quite some overhead to living alone and it can feel quite lonely. The hard part is just finding someone who is up for it, and the kind of place that would support such a living arrangement, in my town most landlords are looking for couples with two incomes and preferably no kids. Buying is not really an option in my market, as places are now selling above 30 times rent.

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Gamerp4 August 7, 2012 at 05:51

Well they might have lied the reason for their live in with their friends to NEW YORK TIMES or Maybe New York Times didn’t wanted to comment on their reason for this kind of living but i can say that they are like all the guys pretty much pissed by the divorce system, the family court, the ALIMONY, Child support and child custody cases, dont forget the false sexual abuse cases and domestic violence one where many women lied about their ex husbands.

So there reason is not because they like it but because they have found OTHER OPTIONS than just being the BEAST OF BURDEN.

Good for them and a huge example for other young guys that LIFE DOESN’T END when you choose celibacy, IT JUST BEGINS A NEW ADVENTURE FOR YOU.

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Andie August 7, 2012 at 11:16

So remember, if you’re thinking about getting married, you ARE Plan B.

Maybe that what’s different in my marriage. My husband is the first and only man I have ever wanted to marry. I feel really lucky. Sure, we annoy each other every once in a while, but I would not change a thing. I have never met anyone who comes even close to him in character, warmth, good heartedness.

I really am very lucky.

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Common Monster August 7, 2012 at 12:40

zed – sounds like 50 Shades of John Gordon…

“There is no greater pain in the ass on God’s green earth than someone who follows you around demanding that you master her.”

There was an Oscar Wilde quote floating around here about a year ago along much the same lines. Perhaps someone remembers it.

This is why, to me, “Game” is just another way of telling men to “Man Up!”.

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Attila August 7, 2012 at 19:04

@ Lacking any nobility of spirit, there’s just nothing there beyond the relentless pragmatism and self-interest. No great art, music, literature, philosophy, no innovation or creativity, nothing.

Hard to say so much in such few words!- Thanks!

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Jennifer Thieme August 11, 2012 at 07:21

You had me until you said this: ” it might not even preclude having children, so long as you’re willing to work out a reasonable custody schedule with the mother, ”

You don’t trust her enough to marry her, but you trust her enough to be the mother of your children? Why would you subject your children to being raised by a person you don’t trust enough to marry?

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W.F. Price August 11, 2012 at 11:08

You don’t trust her enough to marry her, but you trust her enough to be the mother of your children? Why would you subject your children to being raised by a person you don’t trust enough to marry?

-Jennifer Thieme

Jennifer, I’m afraid real marriages don’t exist in meaningful numbers — “civil” marriage doesn’t mean real marriage. Perhaps 10% of men are in what could be called a true marriage (probably less). Does this mean the rest of us should just suck it up and be childless? I think that’s a pretty cruel standard, especially because it isn’t our fault that the feminists successfully wrecked marriage.

AxelFolley August 11, 2012 at 11:52

I’m 30 and this is the way I have been living forever, well, since I graduated from high school. And it’s the best thing to have happened to me, in fact, I can’t imagine living any other way–or with a woman. My roommates – when I need to have roommates – very in age depending on which circle I am in; work, education, and sports, play a significant role in my life and draw friends from there. Video games are my life, I can’t imagine living without them. Ditto the internet, occasional weekend parties and the gym.

I live a life that specifically caters to my needs and wants with very little responsibilities and commitments.

I get unlimited sex without effort since there are countless desperate women (I fock everything from 20-30 with discriminating taste for specific body times) where I’m afforded remarkable choice. Some of the females assume if they give me everything I want and more I’ll marry them later, so they compete for me. I fock and take whatever they offer (this includes homemade dinner, cars, bank accounts, just to name a few – yes, I know, it’s so very, very wrong, but this is just the way things are right now, lol). And women love it when you give a damn about them. Living in an area in which females greatly outnumber males also presents incredibly opportunities for males capable of strategically playing the field. An unintended consequence of the feminism movement has given us unprecedented freedom from societal pressures and obligations. And being a man is all about being lonely anyway.

I don’t care for children, the risks involved in procreation and raising children far out way the rewards obviously. And so from that perspective I can’t fathom living any other way. This is a great time to be male.

This civilization is dead.

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Jean Valjean August 11, 2012 at 20:32

Way ahead of you Price. The economic collapse that cost me my well paying job 4 years ago forced me to restructure my lifestyle.

Instead of selling out I got a roommate for the extra room upstairs. The money he pays for rent and utilities covers my mortgage every month and then some. Plus he (usually) helps clean the house every weekend.

Add to that my neighbor across the street who has become my best friend since moving in 7 years ago. While he’s not as politically active in the MRA he does share my values on never getting married. He’s been dating a woman for 15 years and he won’t even let her call him “boyfriend” and while I tease him about it he also doesn’t call her “girlfriend”.

I’ve never been the popular sort of guy but in my 40′s I have friends near and far and occasionally I meet someone knew who shares my contempt for feminism and women in general.

There are women in my life occasionally. They come and go but not before I do! I treat them like disposable objects and when they try to lock me down, huff and puff to try to train me, or generally act like twits I promptly show them the door. At 40 women are easy to get and easier to discard. I consider that a fair revenge for all the women who thought it funny to give me their number and act like they didn’t know me when I called–that’s if the number worked at all.

Old age must be hell for single hetero women. Their youth and beauty is gone and most can’t give it away.

He who laughs last laughs loudest.

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AxelFolley August 12, 2012 at 15:46

To Jean,

“I’ve never been the popular sort of guy but in my 40′s I have friends near and far” – completely understandable.

This anti-male society, it seems, offers us the best life we could imagine. It’s astonishing. I’m uninhibited and do as I please. When uninhibited, making friends is incredibly easy, therefore guys complaining about loneliness is incomprehensible, at least to me.

This female-focused society encourages female sexual promiscuity which currently translates into more females competing for shrinking number of males. This creates incidents in which women are so desperate it’s embarrassing and even uncomfortable.

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Philip Anthony August 12, 2012 at 15:58

The Multi-Module Approach to Masculinity of the Doscalist Male
First, the definition of a Doscalist male is a man that disregards the Greek form of masculinity, alpha/superior beta/inferior, and adheres to the multi-module approach. The Doscalist male sees no relevance in having girlfriends or wives and is able to divide himself physically, sexually, emotionally, and mentally. Think about how you would invest in stocks; you would not invest all of your money into one stock because if it tanked you would lose all of it. The same goes for girlfriends or wives. Why invest all of yourself into one woman? If one module breaks it off with you, you still have the other three to fall back on. The key for a successful modern man is diversification with his money and his relationships, male and female. The multi-module approach is as follows:
Module 1:
THE MUSE- This is where you develop a platonic relationship with a woman. The requirement here is that the “muse” boosts your ego and helps to inspire you with your work and home life. A female best friend or tomboy would work best, but remember absolutely no sex.
Module 2:
THE HOOK-UP GIRL- This is where you develop a sexual relationship with a woman. The requirement here is safe sex. We all know women like this because they are a dime a dozen and just as cheap (not meant to be sexist, but this means no buying dinner, birthday presents, anniversary presents, or holiday gifts). There is no emotional connection or friendship.
Module 3:
BIG BROTHER- This is where you develop a strong bond with a male friend. The purpose here is a give and take of important masculine traits. An example would be talking about sports, movies, or sex. There should not be any sensitive or emotional talk. Man talk only!
Module 4:
THE CONFIDANT- This is where you develop an expressive bond with a man or woman. This is where you share thoughts or feelings to reach a sense of spiritual peace. A priest, rabbi, or spiritualist works best. Module 4 is optional because most men do not see or feel a need to be emotional.
Being a Doscalist male in the 21st century has many trendy and rewarding benefits, such as:
 1.) Many sexual experiences with a variety of “hook-up girls.”
 2.) The absent of drama that accompanies “traditional relationships.” Domestic disputes, cheating or jealousy, or being forced to do something you do not want to do to please a girlfriend or wife will be nonexistent.
 3.) There will be no threat of divorce, since marriage does not fit into the equation. Marriage is an unmanly institution, and married men should be viewed as pansies or sissies.
 4.) Having all of your needs fulfilled by many men and women to ensure a healthy mind, body, and soul.

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Philip Anthony August 12, 2012 at 16:16

The Multi-Module Approach to Masculinity of the Doscalist Male

First, the definition of a Doscalist male is a man that disregards the Greek form of masculinity, alpha/superior beta/inferior, and adheres to the multi-module approach. The Doscalist male sees no relevance in having girlfriends or wives and is able to divide himself physically, sexually, emotionally, and mentally. Think about how you would invest in stocks; you would not invest all of your money into one stock because if it tanked you would lose all of it. The same goes for girlfriends or wives. Why invest all of yourself into one woman? If one module breaks it off with you, you still have the other three to fall back on. The key for a successful modern man is diversification with his money and his relationships, male and female. The multi-module approach is as follows:
Module 1:
THE MUSE- This is where you develop a platonic relationship with a woman. The requirement here is that the “muse” boosts your ego and helps to inspire you with your work and home life. A female best friend or tomboy would work best, but remember absolutely no sex.
Module 2:
THE HOOK-UP GIRL- This is where you develop a sexual relationship with a woman. The requirement here is safe sex. We all know women like this because they are a dime a dozen and just as cheap (not meant to be sexist, but this means no buying dinner, birthday presents, anniversary presents, or holiday gifts). There is no emotional connection or friendship.
Module 3:
BIG BROTHER- This is where you develop a strong bond with a male friend. The purpose here is a give and take of important masculine traits. An example would be talking about sports, movies, or sex. There should not be any sensitive or emotional talk. Man talk only!
Module 4:
THE CONFIDANT- This is where you develop an expressive bond with a man or woman. This is where you share thoughts or feelings to reach a sense of spiritual peace. A priest, rabbi, or spiritualist works best. Module 4 is optional because most men do not see or feel a need to be emotional.

Being a Doscalist male in the 21st century has many trendy and rewarding benefits, such as:
 1.) Many sexual experiences with a variety of “hook-up girls.”
 2.) The absent of drama that accompanies “traditional relationships.” Domestic disputes, cheating or jealousy, or being forced to do something you do not want to do to please a girlfriend or wife will be nonexistent.
 3.) There will be no threat of divorce, since marriage does not fit into the equation. Marriage is an unmanly institution, and married men should be viewed as pansies or sissies.
 4.) Having all of your needs fulfilled by many men and women to ensure a healthy mind, body, and soul.

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Jennifer August 12, 2012 at 20:37

Mr. Price,

Yes I admit that it would be difficult for the man who wants children, but I am arguing from the viewpoint of the child. Being raised in a “broken home” creates tremendous risk factors for the child. If we are going to measure cruelness, I think it’s more cruel to raise a child in such circumstances than it is to refrain from doing so.

Jennifer

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W.F. Price August 12, 2012 at 20:54

@Jennifer

Honestly, Jennifer, then you’re going to have to penalize women who wreck families, because they are mainly responsible for doing so.

As it stands today, both fathers and children will suffer from women’s caprice, infidelity, sloth, lust, greed, wrath — you name it. But the law always protects the woman. Only the father and children are to pay — never the mother.

Frankly, I kind of doubt that women will ever willingly relinquish this advantage. It will change only after they have already wrecked the family so badly that they, too, suffer as a consequence of their own actions.

There are so many fathers out there who never wanted their children to live in broken homes, but who never had a choice in the matter. We have to recognize who is really and truly responsible for breaking the homes. In the meanwhile, I don’t think we can blame men for becoming fathers without subjecting themselves to the kind of piracy that passes for marriage today. If they make an effort to be in their children’s lives, it’s better than we should expect, given how fathers are treated by the “law.”

But I sympathize with your cause. I agree that kids are best served living with both mother and father. I truly wish it were possible for most of us, but sadly it isn’t. If over half of under-30 women have children out of wedlock, and 50% of marriages end in divorce, then only a fraction of kids will grow up as they should. I don’t think we can fix that by telling men to jump in the fire — that time has passed.

Jennifer August 12, 2012 at 21:23

Mr. Price,

Look, I get it. Men should be able to have children. I am totally on board with that longing and am very sympathetic to it. The state we’re in is a shambles. I just don’t want it to get worse, and being raised in a broken home does precisely that. In particular, and to address one of the recurring themes on this blog, it raises the risk factor for the child to experience his own divorce by 25%! The risk factors are elevated substantially for all sorts of harms. I would be remiss not to make this point.

I fear your position views having a child as a right. Is that the case?

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W.F. Price August 12, 2012 at 21:26

I fear your position views having a child as a right. Is that the case?

-Jennifer

No, not exactly. I view being a father to one’s child as a right.

Restore that right and all these other issues will melt away in an instant.

Übermensch August 13, 2012 at 00:57

@ Jennifer.

Horse bolted a long time ago.

The gate has all but rusted away.

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Jennifer August 13, 2012 at 06:49

Divorce is not the only, or even the worse, culprit. A 40% divorce rate means a 60% lasting marriage rate. Those 60% are doing tremendous good on a societal level and providing society a tremendous amount of stability.

Just because of the nature of this blog and the sort of person it appeals to, I’m pretty sure that anybody reading this has been badly hurt by the sexual revolution. My position is that is that the sexual revolution is composed of parts, and each has contributed to the decline of marriage, which has deeply wounded many here. Divorce was only one of those parts, but not the worst. Unfortunately, as a society we will not discuss the worst part or what it has done. Therefore it won’t ever be addressed.

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W.F. Price August 13, 2012 at 13:32

Divorce is not the only, or even the worse, culprit. A 40% divorce rate means a 60% lasting marriage rate. Those 60% are doing tremendous good on a societal level and providing society a tremendous amount of stability.

Just because of the nature of this blog and the sort of person it appeals to, I’m pretty sure that anybody reading this has been badly hurt by the sexual revolution. My position is that is that the sexual revolution is composed of parts, and each has contributed to the decline of marriage, which has deeply wounded many here. Divorce was only one of those parts, but not the worst. Unfortunately, as a society we will not discuss the worst part or what it has done. Therefore it won’t ever be addressed.

-Jennifer

Well, what is the worst? It can’t be homosexuality, because that’s always been around. So have birth control, abortion and promiscuity.

As far as I can tell, the only truly new development is the legal institution of matriarchy in the family; i.e. the mother holds the power to destroy the family and be rewarded for it. That’s a completely modern invention that has never existed before in a civilized society. Unfortunately, I see very, very few women who are in favor of reversing that.

Cassie August 14, 2012 at 18:46

Are hard-working, loving fathers constantly getting fisted in family court? Absolutely!!! Do far, far, FAR too many mothers and wives, who are equally responsible for a divorce, get over because they are seen as “victims” by their lawyers and not the vindictive sea hags they really are? Most certainly!!! But blaming matriarchy for the downfall of the modern family is the same sort of bitter generalized BS that feminists spew constantly. Let’s be honest, our society is far from a matriarchy; men maintain power in most areas affecting our lives – politics, economics, religion, education, etc., etc., etc. The one trump card women have always held is the kids, and unfortunately, many of my more angry and manipulative sisters wield that card as a weapon…not for the benefit of the children, but to enact revenge on “the man that did them wrong.” As a woman that believes “the movement” has gone too far, I support many of your perspectives, but try not to slip into the sloppy habit of painting all women as the evil burning down your door.

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W.F. Price August 14, 2012 at 21:16

..But blaming matriarchy for the downfall of the modern family is the same sort of bitter generalized BS that feminists spew constantly. Let’s be honest, our society is far from a matriarchy; men maintain power in most areas affecting our lives – politics, economics, religion, education, etc., etc., etc. The one trump card women have always held is the kids, and unfortunately, many of my more angry and manipulative sisters wield that card as a weapon…not for the benefit of the children, but to enact revenge on “the man that did them wrong.” As a woman that believes “the movement” has gone too far, I support many of your perspectives, but try not to slip into the sloppy habit of painting all women as the evil burning down your door.

-Cassie

First, Cassie, only a man with no heart would not be bitter about losing his children through no great fault of his own. Feminists constantly accuse men who have lost what they love most of being “bitter losers.” Well, if you lost your children because your spouse decided to take them from you on a whim, wouldn’t you be bitter?

Only a heartless, immoral piece of trash – i.e. a feminist – could dismiss and ridicule someone for being upset about that.

And yes, a lot of men blame all women for it. I don’t, but I can see why they do. What it comes down to is that a lot of men came to the conclusion that women see them as subhuman, and incapable of feeling pain. The utter callousness with which men are regularly treated in family law is a powerful argument that women are, indeed, a relentless enemy that doesn’t care a whit about our well-being or happiness.

There’s more to it than that, of course, but it doesn’t help when we see conservative women penning article after article about how men should ignore the injuries done to them by women and “man up” regardless of the risk and harm to their lives.

No, there isn’t really a true matriarchy, but from the middle class on down, men have been emasculated and disempowered in the name of feminism and an “equality” that is anything but. Yes, there are men behind it too. I’ve faced them myself. I’ve been screamed at by older male officers of the court, threatened with guns, prison, you name it…

However, the thing is, I just don’t see women ever doing anything about it. I’d be happy to have female allies, but when the going gets tough I’m fairly certain they will vanish into thin air. This is why, as much as I’d like to have women on my side, I’m just not sure I can afford to expend effort on trying to win them over. I’m simply afraid it isn’t worth the trouble, because as much as they may sympathize, they’ll leave us men holding the bag anyway.

zed August 15, 2012 at 16:49

The one trump card women have always held is the kids, and unfortunately, many of my more angry and manipulative sisters wield that card as a weapon…not for the benefit of the children, but to enact revenge on “the man that did them wrong.” As a woman that believes “the movement” has gone too far, I support many of your perspectives, but try not to slip into the sloppy habit of painting all women as the evil burning down your door.

-Cassie

However, the thing is, I just don’t see women ever doing anything about it. I’d be happy to have female allies, but when the going gets tough I’m fairly certain they will vanish into thin air.

-W.F. Price

There are two factors which lead men who have been fighting this cultural breakdown to discount women as allies of any use. Bill alludes to one of them above – men have not seen women doing much of anything about it.

To paraphrase the famous old Edmund Burke quote –
“”The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil women is for good women to say and do nothing.”

So, when the evil was burning down our door, what were most women doing? Watching Oprah and Lifetime, it seems.

The second factor, and your response is a variation of it, is that any condemnation of any woman is often regarded by any woman present as an attack on all woman. Thus, dialogue has been stalled for years by women, who may not actually support the evil, appearing as though they do by arguing against the men trying to point it out.

For its apparent glibness, Cassie, your comment comes across as simply a variation of the “NAWALT” arguement – “BUT Not All Women Are Like That!!!!!!!!!!!”

When one speaks of water as H2O, anyone with any knowledge of chemistry knows that some water molecules are is H3O, and some are H2O2, and several other variations. Yet, nobody jumps in and insists that those outlier exceptions must be noted whenever the shorthand chemical notation is used.

“But, NAWALT” turns into a conversational stand-in for “NWALT” – “NO Women Are Like That.”

And, that is obviously untrue.

NAWALT is always stipulated. If someone makes a statement about women, unless they very explicitly say “ALL women”, it is clear that they are talking about a subset.

The best way to respond to “NAWALT” is “Of course that is true. But, we are not talking about them, are we? We are talking about the women who ARE “Like That.”

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Martin August 18, 2012 at 23:15

I applaud the lifestyle choice(s) these men have made, but there was only one line in the story that bothered me, and it was: “They have no children, no linear career histories, no readily disposable savings.” It was the “no readily disposable savings” part that I have a problem with. If they don’t want form nuclear families, that is fine. But if these men are not going to have a family to support them in their old age, then they need to save up for their own retirement. As a married man with a child, I get angry enough when I think about how much of my paycheck is going to support single “babymamas”. If perpetual bachelor men as well have to be supported by the taxpayer in their old age, they are not much better than the welfare queens.

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John August 22, 2012 at 17:31

Tell me about it. 28 years old, have my own place already paid for in the capital of my Country(I had a good eye for this business), have several houses inherited from my grandparents and I have revenues coming in from the farms and townhouses I rent for families. I don’t own a car as I don’t see the point of having a money-hole, and I don’t date at all.

I’ve achieved a level of indifference for women that is only rivaled by Jesus Christ and the Buddha. I wish the majority of the MRA membership was like me, instead of harboring a strong desire to return to marriage 1.0. I have a friend who is a higher beta(Alpha male good looks ,but beta personality) and for the past 2 months he’s been whining and whining to me on skype about how he has no sex, and how women really are.

That’s great, I tell him. But I know he’ll fall right back in with the Mangina civilization as soon as a woman gives him a BJ.

I’m not so sure about it getting lonely as our friends get married and start a family. I very rarely speak with my friends ,sometimes I go 6 months or more without sending even a mere text message and I’m pretty happy on my own. I also don’t own pets and I don’t get calls often from my family – just like I love it.

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John August 22, 2012 at 17:34

”But if these men are not going to have a family to support them in their old age, then they need to save up for their own retirement. As a married man with a child, I get angry enough when I think about how much of my paycheck is going to support single “babymamas”. If perpetual bachelor men as well have to be supported by the taxpayer in their old age, they are not much better than the welfare queens.”

Who said they are planning on getting old? I do make a lot of money and I have a stash set aside for emergencies but I spend most of the money I make on myself(and that annoys women to no end), as I really don’t plan on reaching an old age. My grandfather died of prostate cancer, so there’s a high chance I’ll have it, and old people are frail, weak, kinda slow in the head and are bald and ugly. Not interested in becoming like that. I very much enjoy my youth.

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The Duke August 26, 2012 at 06:25

Im 39, never been married, no kids, and my life is great! I’ve dating a lot but i understood that a woman, unless it’s your mother or sister, will never love you for who you are, but rather what you can give them, If you don’t believe it, go to any dating website and 90% of all female postings have a generic ‘checklist’ of the qualities they are seeking in a mate, when in fact few of them bring anything of essence to the table except a vagina. I would have much more respect for these leaches if they simple asked what my W2 averaged the past 3 years.

Marriage is designed to sexually enslave men:
Humanity consists of Men & Women. But I am surprised to know as to why most of the difficult and dangerous work is assigned to men.

When humans were developed in ancient land, search for food through hunting was a dangerous activity. Even in contemporary tribal societies, it has been found that almost 90% of the men die a violent death in search of food or security. This activity was given to men, and along with this activity the possibility of death. In middle ages, the only employment available was that of a soldier. Men were employed and died. I was just thinking as to why men accepted these dangerous works to do and opted for death, whereas women lived longer in the shelter of cave or home. In ancient days marriage was sacred. It was a divine right of a woman. It was also a divine duty of a man, to marry a woman, to discharge what is called “Pitri Rrin” (father’s debt). Marriage vow was unbreakable. Due to high mortality rate of men, and longevity of women; polygamy was moral and allowed.

The situation changed. With development of science and technology, our planet becomes a safer place to live. Employment becomes available outside military also. Women opted to work outside. I am surprised to find the smartness of human females- as long as working outside was dangerous, they preferred the safety of home and the moment it becomes safer to work outside home, they decided to work outside home. Same goes with marriage- now it becomes possible for a woman to live alone, without support of a man- divorce becomes acceptable and moral. The sacred marriage becomes a personal choice.
The smartness of womenhood does not stop here. They alleged that man has exploited women for thousands of years. They were not allowed to work outside home. They were kept in bondage in marriage. And surprisingly, many men believe this argument. To correct this historical wrong they are advocating various privileges to be given to women! This article is an attempt to examine the reasons of such manipulation of man.
There is a basic dichotomy between men and women. Men want sex. It is said that men think about sex every 55 seconds. On the contrary women do not want sex. In a recent book, Why Women have Sex (Cindy Metson & David Buss), the authors say,
“Research has shown that most men find most women at least somewhat sexually attractive, whereas most women do not find most men sexually attractive at all…..”
Thus sex becomes a bargaining tool in the hand of women. Men wanted sex all the time. Women have monopoly on this demand of men. Due to this dichotomy men become a “Sexual Slaves”, i.e. they can be asked to do work which were dangerous and which women do not want to do. That is the beginning of slavery. Such manipulation of men is also evident in nature like some birds forcing males to construct a nest before they mate etc.
Cultural development perpetuated this slavery of men and monopoly of women. Sex outside marriage was seen as taboo. Sex, which is a natural activity like eating or sleeping was given a sacred place. To reduce the supply of sex, prostitution was made illegal. All these cultural developments increased men’s dependence on a single woman for sex, so that slavery of the man can be perpetuated.
In course of time a myth was created- “power of sexual desire”. In my view sexual desire is there and some power is also there behind it. But power of “food desire” or “sleep desire” is much more powerful than “sex desire”. The power of sexual desire was created artificially by reducing supply of sex, by suppressing sexual independence, by prohibiting free trade in sex etc.
The effect of sex slavery is also seen today. In today’s world men work harder, in all dangerous situation, share their earning with the women, pay large amount of taxes to state….. and live much lower than the woman. Society and state condition them to marry to perpetuate their slavery. These developments have made man a slave, a sexual slave. In the society there is nothing like power of a man, there is only slavery of a man. Men must understand their slavery. If they don’t understand it, they will be treated as slaves and abused as exploiter. They will be living in the myth of “male power” and dying early. The “myth of male power” also allow state to make anti-men laws so that slavery of men can be perpetuated through power of law.
The slavery of men is not in their chains, it is in their ignorance.

So, good men, a word of advice: Don’t marry! marriage is women business. period.

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