More on Altruism: Responses to Commenters

by W.F. Price on July 24, 2012

One of the nice things about the slower pace of comments over the last few days is that I can respond meaningfully to commenters more often than before, and today I have a good opportunity to do that.

A number of commenters took issue with yesterday’s post about altruism and heroism. Some, like George, read it as an endorsement of self-sacrifice on behalf of women:

George

Heroism and its promotion, as this article does, goes against the MRM. We’re not just fighting the unfair legal system brought on by women or the culture that demonizes men, but also the view of men as disposable utilities, and the role of men as protectors-providers (for women, they still need to do it for their children however).

Heroism may have been useful in the distant past, but now it has become completely toxic for men to fetishize their own destruction. They’re destroying themselves for women, their legal superiors, who don’t give two shits about them and who will go on to live their lives and boyfriends will be one boyfriend in a long series of boyfriends, guys they dated a long time ago. While on the other hand, the young men DIED!

On the point of promoting heroism, this article is completely misguided.

As the writer, it’s my job to make myself understood, so I’ll start by pointing out that the post was not an attempt to promote, glorify or endorse white knightery. Rather, it was simply intended to point out that self-sacrifice is rooted in our biology; it is a fundamental part of masculine nature.

Tom47 questions whether this is even true, and suggests that it is a social construct:

tom47

…There is no evidence that male primates ever defend females or make any sacrifices for them and it’s just as likely that females fight over males as males fight over females. White Knighting is a “social construct”, a way to make men “useful”.

The benefits of altruistic acts are not limited to females, but nor are they excluded. Throughout history, men have probably sacrificed themselves more frequently on behalf of other males. It is my hunch that the high level of altruism displayed by humans, particularly males, developed as a result of the cooperative hunt.

Hunting megafauna with spears is a very hazardous occupation. Like commercial crabbing and wildcatting, both the risk and reward are high. In the Paleolithic Era, humans lived and provided for themselves in small bands of closely related kin. In general, men hunted while women gathered and processed food. Men who were on the hunt were typically closely related. Brother hunted with brother, father with son, cousin with cousin; this is the basis for patrilocality. When the tribe got to a certain size, it would split and separate bands would go their own way, ensuring that it remained this way.

If two brothers were hunting together, and while in pursuit were surprised by an angry, wounded aurochs, a situation could arise in which one took on the beast, allowing the other to survive and taking the brunt of the punishment in the process. If the sacrifice hadn’t been made, both would be quickly trampled in turn as they tried to flee the swift, powerful animal, and more of the genes unique to that family would be lost. Wolves often do this on their hunts, putting their lives on the line so that the other pack members can survive. In fact, it is precisely this quality that led to wolves’ domestication and eventual status as man’s best friend, as altruistic cooperation characterizes the hunting tactics of both species.

This also explains why men are more prone to self-sacrifice than women. Women didn’t hunt. In humans, unlike most other predators, hunting is a sex-specific behavior. Our species is designed that way, so the traits that are helpful for hunting are overwhelmingly concentrated in men. The clearest evidence of this is in our physiques, but it also shows up in mental characteristics such as higher spatial ability. In women, some of these hunting-specific behavioral traits would probably decrease genetic fitness as they have associated costs, so they tend not to be expressed in females. Hence men are braver, more selfless and far more likely to die on behalf of others.

But no, it is not a quality intended to benefit only females — not by a longshot. No more so than the human female’s costly and hazardous pregnancy and labor is intended to benefit only males. It is simply a human adaptation designed to propagate the genome. Evidently, it has been a very effective one.

Commenter piercedhead really got the point of the post:

piercedhead

…To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Although I may not be able to counter my instincts fast enough to avoid giving women a hugely undeserved evolutionary advantage, I can at least use my MRM learning to minimise the opportunities those pesky instincts get to betray me.

By going MGTOW, there is certainly no chance I would ever be in a situation where whatever W.K. tendencies I may have lying dormant would get their moment of glory (to my everlasting shame, should I survive…).

And that same feeble mastery of intellect over DNA would also preserve me from a Batman premier (on this I am on more certain ground).

“Know Thyself!” said the ancient Greek philosophers, repeating Delphi’s maxim. If we know our nature, we can better prepare ourselves to deal with the world. Rather than fight it or deny it, we can accommodate it. We can choose to whom our beneficence should extend by associating with those we truly care about, and those who will appreciate it.

We may not have much control over whether selflessness is in our nature, but in most circumstances we do have the opportunity to decide who to apply it to. In the case of the Aurora shooting, the young men didn’t have time to think about what they were doing, but that kind of violence is a very, very rare occurrence. Because the circumstances were so exceptional and the emergency so sudden, we had the opportunity to see the stuff men are really made of. However, a man is far more likely to find himself on the receiving end of violence over a woman at a nightclub, and those places are pretty easy to avoid.

The real rage MRAs feel, and I share it myself, is over the exhortation to sacrifice for people who have nothing but contempt for most men. That is sheer manipulation of our instincts, along the lines of charities that show forlorn babies on TV in an effort to extract money from the purses of soft-minded old ladies. There is something truly evil about plucking on people’s heartstrings to compel them to behave in a manner contrary to their own and their families’ interests, and this is one of the more noxious elements of feminism and modern society in general.

If we can recognize this inner hero so many men have, and we can know ourselves and what moves us, it will make it that much more difficult for others to manipulate us, and that much easier for us to act in our interests and do good for those who truly deserve it. As conscious beings, we do have a choice, but exercising it requires both forethought and wisdom.

{ 90 comments… read them below or add one }

AfOR July 24, 2012 at 06:34

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TiredGuy July 24, 2012 at 06:42

As an aside note – I’m surprised that people seemed to take away a different message from the other man who fled, leaving behind his girlfriend and her children, than I do.

Many people commented in on the news sites that the fleeing man should be ashamed of himself, etc. Personally I just thought that it was a natural response to the fact that it wasn’t his woman, his wife – nor was it his children, his family. Funnily enough, when I mentioned that perhaps this displays what happens when you remove all need or motivation to work together and adhere to the social contract, I was booted quick-smart.

Would I have run? Hard to say what you’re going to do until you’re in that particular situation.

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Andie July 24, 2012 at 06:48

If we can recognize this inner hero so many men have, and we can know ourselves and what moves us, it will make it that much more difficult for others to manipulate us, and that much easier for us to act in our interests and do good for those who truly deserve it. As conscious beings, we do have a choice, but exercising it requires both forethought and wisdom.

Price, THIS!

After reading the book What It’s Like To Go To War by Karl Marlantes, I started talking to my little son about the relationship between anger and strength and needing to use those qualities in a productive way. What I am hoping to do is encourage him to settle his differences with his sisters and his friends without resorting to violence, but I don’t want him to feel ashamed of that surge of power when he gets angry, or to be ashamed of his desire to use physical force.

Sometimes it’s necessary. Sometimes you dodge a bullet and sometimes you take one and the key part is to be thoughtful about how you are reacting.

I understand completely the anger of men who think the sacrifices made in the Aurora shooting were unappreciated and ultimately counter-productive to the larger goal of restoring our cultural pride in masculinity.

At the same time, while I would HATE to think of my son or brother or husband or father facing that kind of choice, I would also be proud of their sacrifice. It is the noblest instinct of humanity. Men will die to protect their families and loved ones, whether that is a wife, children or brothers in arms. Women have a similar instinct towards their children, although I think the mass institutionalization of infants has robbed most women of that instinct on a deep level.

My sense is that the anger comes from the fact that the instinct to protect and care for and ultimately die for is not reciprocated. People act like I’m some kind of brain-washed chump because I tend to my husband and children so diligently. I know I would die to save them, and I know my husband would die to save us.

That inner hero is something worth protecting and nurturing. But women need to value it as much as men do.

And that is the problem. They don’t. That is why the death of these men seems so tragic and pointless.

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Professor Mentu July 24, 2012 at 06:55

This is a great article, and I understand where you’re coming from with the hunter/gatherer thing.

I believe all writers in the Manosphere – me included – need to be more clear about the distinction between what a man does for a woman v. what men do for women.

A man protecting his wife is good (man and woman). Taking a bullet for some chick you met at the mall a few weeks prior is a bad idea (men and women). Ask yourself; would society be better off with these men producing, or with their mall-rat girlfriends who will do nothing more than enjoy the spotlight for a few weeks at their dead boyfriend’s expense?

Protect the mother of your children. The rest of them can go to hell.

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Okrahead July 24, 2012 at 06:58

A random thought on this altruism: I’m above average size, fairly strong (I lift weights at a local gym, mostly for the enjoyment of it), practice martial arts 3+ times a week and have a license to carry a concealed firearm (which I almost always have on my person).
One of the experiences that forced the red pill down my throat was the response to my own foolish “white knight” heroics. I discovered, the hard way, that a woman who I did not know, being violently assaulted in a parking lot, might choose to insinuate to the police that I was “too aggressive” in restraining her attacker, thus putting me in legal jeopardy. I discovered that if you risk life and limb to come to the aid of a woman under attack, and even if her attacker is a complete stranger to her (not her husband or boyfriend), her ingrained liberal disapproval of violence would lead her to equate the force used to protect her as equally evil to the force being used to assault her. I discovered that this notion is fairly common in womyn in the U.S. today, and as a result if a man foolishly “White Knights” it up and comes to a woman’s defense, he is not only at risk of the physical confrontation. He is equally at risk that the woman in question will tell responding police officers that it was “really no big deal” and that her would-be rescuer just “made the situation worse” by intervening. My level of altruism has since been adjusted accordingly, and to the next young woman whom I pass by when she is being attacked, all I can say is thank your feminist sisters.

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Buck Swamp July 24, 2012 at 07:03

As a young boy growing up in the fifties, even before I knew what the word ‘disposable’ meant, it always bothered me that males were treated as far less ‘valuable’ than females. And it always bothered me that everything important and heroic was done by men, but that in both real life and popular culture, American culture gave women all the respect and deference.

Feminism didn’t create the paradigm, but I believe that feminism, by highlighting female greed, selfishness and malevolence, has enlightened a lot of men to their true condition.

Chivalry is slowly dying. Good riddance.

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greyghost July 24, 2012 at 07:31

Another one to add to “one of your best list” Being civilized is great isn’t. I always thought that things like chivalry, sacrifice,loyalty,honor etc was a social contract between men. None of that had anything to do with women. It is good to see it written out loud.
Also I think that what peircedhead was writing about is one of the things that keeps the MRM bogged in the mud. It isn’t about women either it is about a solid beta male almost instinctively doing what is good for society in general. Just as you have to train a man as a boxer to not close his eyes and turn his head a mans natural instincts to have empathy can be applied to the concept of MGTOW and not violate those natural instincts. One of the foundations of culture and traditions.

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Charles Martel July 24, 2012 at 07:36

AfOR
Sadly, all of you “passing on my genes” types totally and utterly miss the point of DNA.

It must be tough for you being the sole repository of enlightenment and understanding in an infinite ocean of ignorance. I can imagine how isolated you feel. We are lucky you are here to share your knowledge.

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Lyn87 July 24, 2012 at 07:49

Okrahead wrote,

My level of altruism has since been adjusted accordingly, and to the next young woman whom I pass by when she is being attacked, all I can say is thank your feminist sisters.

I found myself in a similar situation about two months ago. I was outside a store and I heard a commotion in the parking lot behind me. When I turned I saw a young man and a young woman struggling with each other, with the young man besting her. It was not immediately obvious whether they were seriously fighting or just playing around, and he was trying to get her on the ground, but since she wasn’t already lying on the ground bleeding I thought it most likely that they were just playing around. (Few women have any idea how easy it is for an average man to harm an average woman – the fact that few men ever do that should make them question all that “rape culture” and “violence culture” nonsense. On the contrary: men are much more likely the use our strength to defend women than to harm them.) In any case nobody was bleeding or throwing punches, and I had time to reflect on what my reaction should be.

I decided that I didn’t care, and it makes me sad and angry that feminism has pushed society to the point where a “natural protector” like me made a deliberate decision to not lift a finger to help a damsel even if it turned out that she was actually in distress.

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Darryl X July 24, 2012 at 07:51

Hmmmm… There’s a problem in our current society. It’s called feminism. It’s one thing for a man to make sacrifices for his tribe, community, country (whatever) and for it not to be recognized or to yield no benefits to the individual sacrificing because it still may yield benefits for the community.

The problem with feminism is that it doesn’t just fail to recognize the benefits of sacrifice and scholar and initiative and honesty and manhood but actively punishes them and instead rewards cowardice and sloth and stupidity. I think many people are misinterpreting feminism as something on a continuum of civilization but that it just doesn’t reach the mark or occupy as high a position on the scale.

That’s not it. Feminism is an entirely different scale. It is completely maladaptive. It is on the opposite of the scale of civilization. And feminism occupies a position very high on that scale. Populations that embrace it will be condemned to generations of suffering and misery. It is rule by psychopaths and malignant narcissists and their lies and false flags and parasitism.

It is the darkest of the Dark Ages. It is prehistoric. It is the result of generations of women making very bad choices and not learning anything from them – bad choices that evolutionarily would have resulted in their early death, early enough to have precluded them and their predisposition for bad decisions from the gene pool.

Imagine living in a community or among a population where men no longer exercise or demonstrate sacrifice or scholar or initiative or courage because these qualities are punished. We practically already do live in a society like that and look what’s happening. The economy is disintegrating and the lives of innocent men are being sacrificed left and right to promote and enable the excessive life styles and greed of women and feminists.

And the journey to our fate accelerates with each lost real man. How long does anyone think that will last? How sustainable is that? It’s not. Anyone who believes we are in recovery is dead wrong and better prepare for some very dangerous and dark and unbearable developments and soon. Courtesy of feminism. It’s going to get a lot worse, folks.

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El Bastardo July 24, 2012 at 07:57

To all the women who come to this forum beware! For you are entering into a fray that may shape your future. You are reading comments on a respected site in the manoshpere, and though some of it may shock and apall you, keep an open mind, for the men here have something of dire importance to impart to you whether you understand and belive it, or not.

The message should be clear to you: Men, in ever growing numbers, are starting to not care. Even if you run the gamut of our NAWALT euphemism which stands for Not All Womyns Are Like That; we are putting a sign on your irregardless. Irregardless if you claim to be a feminist or not, by your silence these past few decades, or worse your cause celibre for our collective misfortune, real or imagined, whether you knew it or not; ignorance is no excuse here. We no longer care. Even in the rare circumstance where we see a man attacking you in any way, men are increasingly indifferent. Which translates to, he will walk away and expect you to fend for yourself. After five decades of feminist run schools, courts, government, and military service and then abandonment; men are tired. Literally exhausted of feminist malfeasance. From claiming we are abusers, to strong arming the “good stuff” over your imaginary “glass ceiling” to the absurd notions that gender is merely a “social construct” designed to keep us at bay in the workplace; until you pull out your traditional conservative(tradcon)” card depending on which convenience you desire at the time.

Again, be forewarned! We have many more legitimate greivances. But today, is your day to receive your “buyer beware” sticker. It is invisible, so it does not matter whether you know it is there or not. In ever increasing numbers, men are earning/training their eyes to see it on your forehead. Like the “mark of the beast,” we know not to purchase no matter the persecution that may follow. You can make whatever promises you wish, but there are no court records, nor laws in our favor guaranteeing a life time of happiness. So the “buyer” is us; MEN. We have been forced into a society where we can get the milk for free, we no longer have to maintain it. It was not what we wanted, contrary to what your womyns studies professors may have told you. I hope you feel empowered by this, if not, I actually don’t care. I am indifferent to your successes, as well as your plights. It is not personal, just my respecting a woman’s right to do as she pleases. It is what you wanted, enjoy.

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Georice81 July 24, 2012 at 08:12

This may be the best blog so far that I have read. But I go one step further. It isn’t just about biology but about the Creator that is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence: Natures’s God. This is the same God that created us male and female and endowed us with certain characteristics that are good within the context of our genders. For either sex to try to be like the other is considered an abomination and in the OT they were liable to be stoned to death. Biology simply follows nature’s laws as designed by God.

These men died for the women that were with them in the same manner that men paraded to their death on the way to Cold Harbor or Antietam. Like a commenter said, we men are created to be warriors and this comes out in situations like this. Time and time again history shows us how men will die in the field of battle for a guy or guys that he barely knew. This is who we are and it is a good thing whether we see it as simply evolutionary biology or as devine design.

We were created to defend those weaker than us and that includes women and children. And yes women are weaker no matter who thinks otherwise. The men who gave up their seats in the Titanic have been looked upon heroically over the years and I must agree with that sentiment. Real men are brave and women are not expected to be so and that is ok.

Instead of giving up I think we need to shame society and the feminists in particular. This is a perfect example of the differences between men and women. When the rubber meets the road, all women will be asking (if not demanding) that men do something to protect them. Yes we will but they need to accept the fact their feminism tries to weaken and emasculate the very men that they need for their protection.

Growing up as a kid I used to admire the great soldiers of previous wars. I admired bravery. I admired winners such as boxers, baseball players, etc. All of these exhibited manly qualities. These are the same qualities that kids nowdays are supposed to suppress. Instead of playing with a GI Joe feminists demand that the boys play with barbies.

What I hate about feminism is how they are trying to destroy the devine order of things. The results are chaos and destruction as we can see in our society. One can’t go against human nature for too long before collapsing and sadly enough our society is doing that.

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jodark July 24, 2012 at 08:18

I think it comes down to a simple idiom:

Never sacrifice yourself for someone who isn’t your DNA or hasn’t or wasn’t willing to carry your DNA to birth.

Is your life worth it for a GF of 6 months? Probably not. She’d bang your friend the night of your funeral.

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Rafael July 24, 2012 at 08:23

Priceian Altruism and Hamiltonian Spite are the reasons that men are at a legal disadvantage today – and the part of the reason for the success of feminism.

Basically feminism screws random men over – and that is to the advantage of any individual man not screwed over. Men support discriminatory family law because on average it screws over a large number of genetically unrelated men.

Historically it has always been so. Before 1900, the dominant mating paradigm was that high status men mated with more than their share of the women. Low status men were sent to die war. The purpose of war is dual – both to kill large numbers of men from another culture – but also to winnow down the number of low status men from your own. In medieval times for example, the class of nobles was more closely related to each other than to the people they governed. So it was to their advantage to send large numbers of men off to war.

Historically there was a brief period from something like 1850 to 1950 where marriage laws benefited middle class men – what some in the MRM now call “betas”. But that has been undone and we are now back to the two mating strategies that have worked historically. Either you can be at the top of society where even rapacious family law isn’t enough to take you out of the mating game, or you can be at the bottom, where you live on the margins, have nothing to take, and have children you don’t support with a large number of lower class women.

The men in the middle today are screwed – which is a return to historical norms.

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Keyster July 24, 2012 at 08:33

I’d rather live with shame, than die being a hero.

It’s amazing to see how conditioned even some of us here are, to “gender equality”. A man’s natural tendency to be heroic comes from the pure practicality that men are stronger, faster and more capable than women. Nothing betrays this like an emergency of some sort, where the women stand around waiting for the men to take action. A woman might assist with something, but the man takes the lead and gets it done because he’s more than likely going to be better at it. (He more than likely has a better chance of surviving a bullet wound too.)

The only difference between the recent past and the post-feminism era is that a man might hesitate for a critical moment before getting involved in heroic action to save a damsel in distress.

Personally I pretend I never noticed anything going on. I don’t want to get involved. Just because I’m stronger, faster and more capable doesn’t mean I have to risk sacrificing myself. It’s become a conscious choice, because I’ve helped far too many women without even getting a “thank you” in return. They either expect help from a man as a right, or they resent having to depend on a man in the first place. There’s zero reciprocity. Male Heroism might be innate, but avoiding it is learned behavior.

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Hugh July 24, 2012 at 08:39

Here’s all I know…..

As a man who has gone through the same trenches with other MRA’s, who’s also been through hell and back as a result of the misandric society we currently live in, in more ways than I can even count; as a man who, over and over, again fights the fight to raise public awareness and get the vast majority of vagislamists I meet on a daily basis, to open up their eyes, either through repeated debate, or providing them with resources to see the folly of their ways…… BUT… who, through nothing else than the grace from God, was able to find a very conservative, gun toting, Godly woman, who actually stands toe to toe with me, fighting the same fight, warning of the destruction of society and the family unit…. a woman who’s fought cancer twice, and lived…. a woman who’s made just as many sacrifices as me in order to get back to something SANE between a man and a woman and a family…… a woman who turned out to be “more precious than rubies”…… a woman who, still to this day, doesn’t give a “thumbs down” when ‘micro semantic debate’ just doesn’t go her way….

………….. I’d take the bullet for her any day of the week. Whether she took it for me or not. I can’t say I’d do that for ALL women…. or most….. but this one…. yep… in a heartbeat.

Also programmed into our DNA is a thing called “transcendence”…… May each of you find it in your own way and time…..

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greyghost July 24, 2012 at 08:44

Lyn87
Your story has me thinking. In a healthy society helping the girl maybe good or maybe was never good. Allowing that man to keep his woman in check may have been the most chivalrist and responsible thing for a masculine red pill man to do in a civilized society. Tough to think about with that point of view but looked at with a big picture and the thick skin of a warrior it may be the way to end the madness. We are MRA’s we don’t get the luxery of blue pill ignorant bliss. Be seen as a bad man (MGTOW being told to man up) and in reality actually saving western civilization with controled indifference.

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greyghost July 24, 2012 at 08:46

Lyn87
Your story has me thinking. In a healthy society helping the girl maybe good or maybe was never good. Allowing that man to keep his woman in check may have been the most chivalrist and responsible thing for a masculine red pill man to do in a civilized society. Tough to think about with that point of view but looked at with a big picture and the thick skin of a warrior it may be the way to end the madness. We are MRA’s we don’t get the luxery of blue pill ignorant bliss. Be seen as a bad man (MGTOW being told to man up) and in reality actually saving western civilization with controled indifference.

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AfOR July 24, 2012 at 08:49

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zed July 24, 2012 at 08:52

When I looked at the title of the aforementioned post, my response was, like many others here –
Oh, great. Yeah, let’s all pull up a chair and dine on some “dead hero.”

To me, the entire question boils down to – is altruism a gift, or an obligation, a duty?

The growing Attitude of Passive Entitlement (APE) among women manifests itself as any woman is entitled to have any man obligated to lay down his life (or all his material wealth) for her. Thus, they tend to consider men’s lives worthless unless they are spend meeting her needs.

Laura Wood (not a popular person hereabouts) very explicitly stated something to the fact that unless a man is spending his life meeting the needs of a woman, his life has no purpose.

I disagree.

But, I also hold the men who sell their lives too cheaply to be more at fault than all those people who want to get a bargain and waste his life at the least cost to them.

One of the things we put into the foundation expositions of MGTOW was – “Demand payment in advance.”

When we “honor” dead heroes – that is payment after the fact. Some poor dude throws away his life in hopes that after he is gone, he will be “honored” for his “ultimate sacrifice.”

It’s part of of the sucker’s game that goes along with the White Feather campaigns. Heroes think that they can buy posthumous “honor” with their lives. That is the way younger men are suckered into giving what those with APEs think they are entitled to.

And, because they are entitled to it, the sacrifice has no value the APEs. They simply regard it as their just due. This became glaringly obvious when the APEs seemed quite put out that more men did not end up dying in the Costa Concordia wreck.

So, I, as the “seller” demand the right to set the price that I will “sell” my life for.

That price is respect for what it is worth – and, I determine what it worth, not them – paid in advance.

No credit cards accepted. Women have tapped out their social credit line, and their account is closed.

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Opus July 24, 2012 at 08:57

The Olympics are oppressing women. Yes it is true (it must be – I read it on the BBC site). How? You’ll never guess, so I’ll have to tell you. By reason of the influx of visitors to London, it is not going to be safe for women to go out and so they are going to have to stay in and have a self-imposed curfew when their husbands will thus be free to assault them. Why they don’t go to a women’s aid shelter, or get divorced like any empowered woman, beats me. Sadly I do not have a wife to assault for clearly the Olympics is going to be the best time to assault women, which as we all know is the one thing above all that men want to do to women – which is why they marry them, or invite them to live with them. Dastardly cunning, I say, but true: so much for chivalry and alltruism.

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Josh the Aspie July 24, 2012 at 09:01

Wow, they’re actually saying that a guy that ran out to save his life should be ashamed for not having stayed in the line of fire? That’s nuts!

Do you have any linkage for that TiredGuy? I’m having some other conversations on the shooting else-where with acquaintances, friends, and family, and having the shaming go that far would help me better make my points about the news coverage.

I’d also like to know if there were any women who ran and left their boyfriends. There probably are, and I doubt there will be any news coverage on it.

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Skeptic July 24, 2012 at 09:09

Would I ‘man up’ and put my life at risk to save some woman in the street?
Nope.
Simple.
My body, my choice.

Choosing is a thought process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arN7OXjHDEY

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Skeptic July 24, 2012 at 09:10

The Stranglers – No More Heroes

Lyrics:

Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
He got an ice pick
That made his ears burn
Whatever happened to dear old Lenny?
The great Elmyra and Sancho Panza?
Whatever happened to the heroes?
Whatever happened to the heroes?

Whatever happened to all the heroes?
All the Shakespearoes?
They watched their Rome burn
Whatever happened to all the heroes?
Whatever happened to all the heroes?

No more heroes any more
No more heroes any more

Whatever happened to all the heroes?
All the Shakespearoes?
They watched their Rome burn
Whatever happened to the heroes?
Whatever happened to the heroes?

No more heroes any more
No more heroes any more

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 09:12

GBFM ECONOMICZ MAXIM # 1: A woman’s courtship value is equal or less than the lowest price she ever gave her pussy away for. lzolzoz

GBFM ECOnOMICZ MAXIM # 1:

A woman’s courtship value is equal or less than the lowest price she ever gave her pussy away for. lzozozoz

After a woman has had a one-night stand
or given her pussy for free
her courtship value
is 0.
or less than 0.

As why would you want to be the guy
who pays for what others got when it was younger hotter tighter
forty pounds lighter
for freeee?

lzozlzozlzzo

After a woman passes 25, whence she has generally been buttcocked numerous times and desouled, her courtship value is negative. It is the woman, who is now wired fiat bernanke cash and allowed to excel in fiat bernanke programs that drug up and dumb down boyz while deocntsructing da GREAT BOOKS 4 MENZ and creating far more debt than wealth while bankruping the West morally amnd moneetarily, who must pay the man so as to court him.

For a 25 year old multi-buttocked, desouled, bernankifed woman represents a huge risk to a man’s livelihood, his time, his conscience, his soul, his future earnings, and his general well-being. And the man must be compensated justly so as to have to court a woman over 25 who has been buttcocked and deousled and converted by the cenrta; bankerz into a vehicle of welath transfer lzozlz so dey could convert their masisve fiat debt into physical property by leveraging a woman’s sexuality for prviate profit gains while placing all teh risksz on good menz zlozzllz.

lzolzolzozozozozoz

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 19
Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 09:14

I thought that woman
have proclaimed themselves to be equal
and had many many marches
and protests
declaring this
so why is it that so many women
failed to man up?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 10
walking in hell July 24, 2012 at 09:26

@bastardo
“We have been forced into a society where we can get the milk for free, we no longer have to maintain it.”

Some of us find the cows to be so gross, we would vomit if we drank their sour, rotten milk.

For us, we exist for the sole purpose of getting out of the cesspool.

Interestingly, if you google the search term “dating american wome,” the top two search results are these:

1) “American women are the worst for dating and relationships”
2) “It’s hard dating American women – News – Evening Standard”

The word is out internationally. For the first time in history, men don’t feel isolated or like they have a problem just because they are not successful at relationships with these terrible creatures.

If fact, if you are a man and you get along well with American women and don’t see anything wrong with them, you problem have some deep-rooted problems.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 3
walking in hell July 24, 2012 at 09:28

That was google the search term “dating american women.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Charles Martel July 24, 2012 at 09:29

AfOR
Perhaps instead of getting on a bandwagon and singing in sympathy with the fucking choir that afor is an asshole, you might want to consider engaging brain instead of dismissing a message just because you have decided you don’t like the messenger… or is that too masculine and intellectual a concept for the spearhead readership?

I don’t think you’re an asshole. You’re a smart guy. I believe that just about everything you write here is true and not the fabrication of some keyboard warrior. But your starting point for everything you write here is that everyone else is an idiot. Ho-hum.

Masculinity is multi-dimensional. In your writing here you’ve chosen to emphasize one particular dimension – uncompromising, in-yo’-face assertiveness. To you that writing style means strength. To me, it’s more a display of some kind of odd social maladjustment and one that you appear to have voluntarily chosen. Probably as a result of experiencing a lifetime of frustration being around people who are not as intelligent as you.

Whatever. You and I both know it doesn’t matter either way. Me? My problem is I got three copies of the fairness gene. I probably should have been a cop so I could indulge my compulsion to dispense impartial justice to the unwashed masses.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 4
walking in hell July 24, 2012 at 09:45

@rafael
“The men in the middle today are screwed – which is a return to historical norms.”

“Either you can be at the top of society where even rapacious family law isn’t enough to take you out of the mating game, or you can be at the bottom, where you live on the margins, have nothing to take, and have children you don’t support with a large number of lower class women.”

You nailed it. It is all the advantages that women have in the family law courts that create the economic incentive for them to destroy their husbands and the fathers of their children.

If you were a multi-millionaire and your money was secret, day and night you could drag a trouble making female through the family courts until she saw the light.

Maybe the biggest determinant of whether a middle class grows or shrinks, is how the family law courts treat men and/or the willingness of the women in the society to use them. Certainly, if one female uses the courts and reports a positive experience, the others will line up in typical female fashion to imitate her.

Of course, any media report would never mention a causal link between a shrinking middle class and the family law system. The growing poverty due to single mothers is blamed on men.

America is already the world’s leading bastard nation. With the bastard level at around 20% and the number of bastard households at 11 million, if you extrapolate the other races to the 70% level as in the black communities, we are just getting started down bastard road.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 1
walking in hell July 24, 2012 at 09:51

@price and all

Maybe as a practical solution, men should make it a daily exercise to practice countering any white knight impulses that might arise. For example, you might imagine situations where women might ask for your help. Then, in your mind practice what you should do to counter those impulses.

Imagine a single mother getting on the bus with a stroller and baby. Instead of imagining helping here, imagine slyly pretending you did not see her struggling.

Whatever you do, don’t advertise the fact that you are not helping her just to show your spirit or else you will be branded a misogynist.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1
Keyster July 24, 2012 at 10:00

No credit cards accepted. Women have tapped out their social credit line, and their account is closed.

Once Feminism was able to convince women en masse that men were malevolent adversaries, not partners or even friends, it set the gears of societal decline we see now in motion.

Most women are clinging to what’s left of any amnity at all as insurance, just in case. Women who openly claim to actually LIKE men are in the minority; many are either annoyed or resentful, but they withstand the “burden” of his companionship only because he’s useful at times…otherwise, why bother?

Men are still deluded into thinking they matter to women, as men. They’re entrenched in the traditional dynamic of the past because they will only go so far down the rabbit hole. Whereas women are VERY cognizant of their diminishing power quotient vis a vis men, men are oblivious to anything going on at all – to the extent it’s not directly effecting them.

Women don’t like men anymore because they don’t need men anymore, while some hedge their bets. Government has their backs now. Sperm is $200 and next day delivery. Bored with starter hubby? Get a new one. And yet individual men are STILL compelled to rescue, provide for and protect women! …because it’s his biological imperative to do so, even at his own peril.

Men need to stop treating women like it’s still 1950, and start treating them like men; which is exactly what feminists wanted all along.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 62 Thumb down 2
Lavazza July 24, 2012 at 10:06

Darryl X: “The problem with feminism is that it doesn’t just fail to recognize the benefits of sacrifice and scholar and initiative and honesty and manhood but actively punishes them and instead rewards cowardice and sloth and stupidity. I think many people are misinterpreting feminism as something on a continuum of civilization but that it just doesn’t reach the mark or occupy as high a position on the scale.”

It’s an important but not the only energy/resource sink that has come with Western affluence, mainly created by cheap energy. If errors have no or little cost for the individual making them, more errors will be made.

The individual can position himself to avoid some of the costs of feminism, but for Western society (and coming Westernized societies) as a whole feminism probably has to run its full course before it will be dismissed.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
Migu July 24, 2012 at 10:07

Do you know anyone that would die for you?

I know few that would for me. I’d return the favor. The circumstances determine who dies.

That is all.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
Darryl X July 24, 2012 at 10:23

@ Opus -

“Why they don’t go to a women’s aid shelter, or get divorced like any empowered woman, beats me.”

Poor choice of words, that. LOL

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Josh the Aspie July 24, 2012 at 10:26

@Charles Martel

Except that the laws are themselves inherently partial, and tyrannical. In such a system you cannot do your job and be anything but a tyrant.

This is why I do not give the police any more credit than that.

There are several broken social compacts these days. Women broke their side of the compact by not giving men respect and deference, so we have no obligation to protect them.

The police broke the compact of protection, so the rest of society has no obligation to give them any form of respect or deference.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0
AfOR July 24, 2012 at 10:41

@ charles

noooo, 3 copies of the neanderthal gene are required for cop entry

@ skeptic

ah yes, the stranglers rock… lot of truth in a lot of their lyrics, good tunes too

A fine day for the classroom and the pupils are here

Timmy’s got a headache but the others don’t care
Sarah’s got to stay behind and help with the drill
Teacher’s got his eye on her moves in for the kill
Nobody can see or hear the things that they do

All the books are closed there must be something they do

Only teacher knows about the subjects they span span

Education’s secondary – being a school mam
Oooey . . . teacher’s doing fine as far as I can see

Being a school mam
Long holidays in the summer
Being a school mam
Free milk in your coffee breaks
Being a school mam
Government paid monthly salary cheques
Being a school mam

Noise is heard the principal investigates
She turns on all the cameras and it’s too late
Catches both their pants down in a passion warm
Hasn’t seen it happen since the day she was born
Reaches down for glasses that just can’t be found

By the time she finds them – why they’re down on the ground

Tossing and a’turning they’ve got feverish hands

Life can be so fluid when you’re being a school mam

Oooey . . . teacher’s doing fine as far as I can see

Being a school mam
Controlling promiscuity after hours
Being a school mam
Giving out detentions by the dozen
Being a school mam
Give her fifty lines (of speed)
Being a school mam

Sucking on her fingernails can’t believe what she’s seen
She seems so engrossed at what appears on the screen
Locks her door with trembling hands
Her heart’s beating fast she pretends she’s down there
On the floor in the class
Gives herself to teacher although he doesn’t know
Works herself into a frenzied state and it shows
Sarah’s almost at the top but try as she can
She can’t reach her helter skelter down with the school mam
Just watch her go and help her try if you can
Use your twentieth century imagination if you’ve got any
Oooey . . . now she’s at the top and teacher sets her free

Being a school mam
Disgusting behaviour
Being a school mam
All over the parquet flooring
Being a school mam
Let the flood gates open wide
Being a school mam

Now the principal collapses dead on the floor
with
Contentment on her wrinkled old face ever more
She went out the very best way that an old woman can
She was where the action was down there with the school mam
Oooey . . . teacher never will discover who could see

Being a school mam
One and one make two if you are very lucky
Being a school mam
Two twos make four if I remember correctly
Being a school mam
Four fours make sixteen and sixteen’s over age
Sixteen and sixteen make thirty-two, that’s approaching middle age
Thirty-two and thirty-two make sixty-four, that’s OAP land
Sixty-four and sixty-four make one-hundred-and-twenty-eight
One-hundred-and-twenty-eight divided by three
Let me pause for reflection for a second
But teacher
Three does not go into one-hundred-and-twentyeight exactly;
but it goes forty-two and a bit;
43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 49. 1, 49.2, 49.3, 49.4, 49.5, 49.6, 49.7,
49.8, 49.9 (X9)
Fifty

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 12
Rocco July 24, 2012 at 11:14

From the article Troll King posted in the last thread, Hanna Rosen agrees with you Bill, she thinks the behavior is genetic and, to her, this removes the cognitive bravery these men showed in the midst of live fire and panic.

There is no proof. Would they do it for strangers? Nope. Females they reproduce with? Not necessarily, one guy had kids to think of, kids that will never see dad again.

Could all be white knighting? Hit your knee your leg pops up…that’s a reflex…jump in front of someone to protect only them, that’s a decision IMO.

Do I think they were brave? Yes, very dumb but very brave and honorable (as someone said, probably traits that are bad to have in this day and age.

I’m MGTOW and wouldn’t lift a finger but, men or women who make sacrifices for others have earned my respect. Hanno Rosen knows this and so states that this is only a reflex and men are of no use to women and so no value to society.

And yes, the women won’t remember in 2 weeks so learn guys, don’t throw your life away for nothing, this is what Hanna Rosen should have written about if she didn’t hate men so much.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/23/aurora_dark_knight_shooting_the_men_protected_the_women.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Rebel July 24, 2012 at 11:16

Darryl X July 24, 2012 at 07:51

Hmmmm… There’s a problem in our current society. It’s called feminism. It’s one thing for a man to make sacrifices for his tribe, community, country (whatever) and for it not to be recognized or to yield no benefits to the individual sacrificing because it still may yield benefits for the community.”

I quite agree with that. And I think that this is proof that altruism is not implanted into our genes: feminism is slowly but surely killing altruism. More and more men are becoming quite unwilling to die for women.

Ask about any Russian male if he is willing to die for his woman.
The Russians did not have a sudden change in their DNA: it’s just that they have been put through feminism for much longer.

There was an article somewhere on the net a while ago that said “Would you take a bullet for a feminist?”

The answers clearly indicated that altruism was absent .

Altruism is a construct. This fits so well with the religion of feminism.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Rebel July 24, 2012 at 11:47

“Whatever you do, don’t advertise the fact that you are not helping her just to show your spirit or else you will be branded a misogynist.”

Does it matter?

Imagine a situation:
Her:”You are a misogynist”
You:”You are a misandrist: equality. Perfect agreement”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
Keoni Galt July 24, 2012 at 11:48

The real issue here is the difference between men sacrificing themselves for their own woman, versus men who are urged, glorified and heralded for sacrificing them self for any woman, anywhere.

These three guys ARE heroes. Ask yourself, if you were a father of a daughter, who would you want her to be dating – the sort of guy that would step in the path of a gunman for her, or the guy that ran away? I know which guy I’d approve of her dating. And these guys SHOULD be commended for their sacrifice.

In fact this is precisely what the real institution of chivalry used to be.

It was not a code of deference of men for women, but rather a contract between men.

In chivalrous society, women were men’s property – and that was a feature, not a bug. Men had a social contract in which you would sacrifice yourself for another’s woman, as any other man would do the same for my woman (wife, daughter, mother).

I would go down with the ship so that your mother, your wife, your daughter could fit on the lifeboat…as I could reasonably expect that strange men would do the same for my females. Chivalry and Patriarchy as a whole was a contract between men, for the benefit of society as a whole. Feminism and Matriarchy is a breaking of that contract for the detriment of society and the benefit of no one except the short term interests of individual females.

Once the feminists broke the code of chivalry, men have no reason to sacrifice themselves for any women except their own, as they are now equal and do not ‘belong’ to another man who would do the same for yours.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 7
DruidV July 24, 2012 at 12:20

What a terrible price the foolish men in that theater had to pay so that these thankless, soulless females might continue unfettered, with consuming natural resources and breeding with other, not so foolish males in the future.

The living males that have by now most certainly replaced these forgotten, rotting automatons, are not the least bit unhappy about these dead guys’ noble sacrifice and they too would gladly call these guys ‘heroes”, just as soon as they are finished with the business at hand, i.e. consoling their grief stricken, brand new gfs.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
terry July 24, 2012 at 12:36

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 25
Charles Martel July 24, 2012 at 12:46

Josh the Aspie
Except that the laws are themselves inherently partial, and tyrannical. In such a system you cannot do your job and be anything but a tyrant.
This is why I do not give the police any more credit than that.

True, but my point was mostly rhetorical.

Although I do have an exaggerated and maladaptive sense of justice, to the point where I want to interfere when I see something happening to someone else that appears to me to be unfair. There’s nothing in it for me, but unfairness really chaps my ass. I can’t really explain it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
El Bastardo July 24, 2012 at 12:50

@Rocco

As a military man who got duped into hunting “sex traders” I have to agree with you. I searched and searched, none to be found. They are too well connected I suspect. Sadly, had I died then, you would be correct about me. If the Government asked me back to do the same thing now, I would just walk away.

@Walking in hell

Astute point as usual, except, if they do get along they may have been like I was; trained from birth that that was “normal.” In fact, that feeling is not wrong, but sadly, “out of touch” with our current reaity! I am not sure we should abandon it just yet though? I learned to trust women. It gave me a a partial/temporary downfall, I gave a witch a kid. Looking back, you may be right, maybe I did have severe issues in that regard. However, can you fault a man for making the choice? Women’s value skydives from value at 30/36 depending on point of view, but men also after 40! At some point man, many men will feel they have to bite the bullet. If it is a choice between MGTOW and having kids, most men will take the guaranteed child support check in their future even after they have weighed the options as intelligently as we would.

I know most here would disagree with me outright, but think about it, feminists have given us a choice: You are going to take your eye out of it’s socket one way or the other; the choices we have “gleefully” provided you are a knife or a spoon. Have fun boys.

Sucks I know, but not all men can choose the celibacy route with no kids. Eventually, even men reach a point where their market value is very low, if existent at all. I know Anon 70 will tell you to go to Mexico, but you will want to be young enough with your kids to see grandkids, their weddings, you know; what our grand parents had.

Sadly, we have a monolithic group of assholes, who are small in number, but very well orginized and funded. (keyster astutely said this to me before)

We need to take them down ASAP! Otherwise we might as well claim to enjoy the “options” they “provided us.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
zed July 24, 2012 at 12:54

HOW ABOUT MEN USE YOUR ICONIC PIECE, “MENS LIBERATION”, TO RESCUE THEMSELVES, TO LOVE THEMSELVES, TO DO FOR AND PROVIDE THE VERY BEST LIFE THEY CAN FOR THEMSELVES AND THE PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THEM.

It’s called “MGTOW.” Actually caring about a man is what a woman has to do in order to purchase his provision and protection.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 0
namae nanka July 24, 2012 at 13:11

“the differences between one shot of my DNA and the next are greater (in the offspring the will produce) than the differences between one shot of mine and one shot of yours.”

are you expressing the Lewontin’s fallacy in another way?

And feminists will remember the Mark Lepine’s victims sooner than acknowledging these men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
Ron July 24, 2012 at 13:58

@GBFM

Tailor your style to the audience.

Tucker Max doesnt visit this site.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Eric July 24, 2012 at 14:03

Keonigalt:
Historically the idea behind chivalry demanded reciprocity on the part of women; IOW they had to BE worth fighting and dying for. The women who weren’t like that ended up as the subject of numerous mediaeval plays, tragedies, and comedies.

The gender supremacy encouraged by feminism has made chivalry redundant. Women believe they are entitled to men’s sacrifices simply because they are female. The whole Colorado incident illustrates two things: that what men naturally do (sacrifice for the good of others) is nowadays considered exceptional and heroic; and women’s sense of entitlement, male expendability, and complete lack of empathy for men is considered normal and socially acceptable. It’s really the attitudes of the women involved, and not the men’s actions that should be under public scrutiny.

OT—Congratualtions on being denounced by Futrelle today. LOL Mangina anger is the weather-vane of truth.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1
Charles Martel July 24, 2012 at 14:06

Rocco
From the article Troll King posted in the last thread, Hanna Rosen agrees with you Bill, she thinks the behavior is genetic and, to her, this removes the cognitive bravery these men showed in the midst of live fire and panic.

I didn’t really get that from Hanna Rosin’s article. I actually read a kind of muted respect on her part for the sacrifices of the three men who died for their women. She then of course went on to qualify this by saying, in effect, that in an age of female ascendancy, acting as a human shield is one of the few remaining ways that men can actually be useful to women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
Ron July 24, 2012 at 14:13

My attitude towards women is changing in that I do not wish to show kindness or consideration towards a woman because she deserves it, but rather because I wish to show kindness to my brother, who is conerned with her.

Back in the days of the social contract, she deserved my consideration because she was always of value to my brother, even those I had never met. But in this degenerate age, I know that she is not concerned with the wellbeing of my brother. What is worse, I am surrounded by men who do not and never will view me as a brother. And that is the real root of the problem.

Krauserpua described an incident outside a strip club where four men were attempting to get the attention of the stripper sent outside to bring men in, he noticed how each man was backstabbing and throat cutting his fellow. This is in a nutshell what we are going through as a society. Each man shows no real compassion for his brother, we throw each other to the wolves and we use the mental disease known as feminism to excuse it,

When the judges and police take the place of the husband that is akin to adultery. When the lawmakers and social workers pass laws to destroy men, that is theft and murder. When men vote for such people to get into office, they do it, as one poster noted, out of Hamiltonian spite. Deep inside the psyche of the average american male there is a contempt and mistrust of all other men. A lust for power and a terrible jealousy of our brother. MRA is one of the few stirrings of an awakening against this evil.

Women are followers and servants by nature. If game teaches us anything, it teaches that they wish to be lead by a strong man. We complain about their selfishness and their amorality, well the truth is they are not quite so bad as that, but bad enough, and we should be grateful for it, because it means that their nature is to be lead.

Our really problem is the lack of brotherhood, the lack of PATRIARCHY. Yes, the truth is, what we truly need is a PATRIARCHY, a BROTHERHOOD of men. Not a “return”, because I dont believe we ever had a true patriarchy or brotherhood in America. Rather what we need is a heartfelt reflection on this quality of brotherhood. What is it, what are its parameters, what are its limits, is it a secret society, or is it an open love?

Avoiceformen once asked a very good question, what is the definition of manhood? I think I have an answer: To be a man means to rule. To rule as a king, not as a tyrant and not as weakling. To rule oneself, ones emotions, to treat with other men as a king would treat with his brother king, to treat his sons as princes and his daughters as bonds and gifts to his brother-kings, yes and his wives as his queens, but all his subjects that he rules over.

This concept is what we all need. To realize that our duty is to be Kings, and that we must establish a sense of brotherhood based on that honor.

Anyway, rhats my ramble.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 6
Ted July 24, 2012 at 15:05

Here’s a radio play from the BBC I found interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/ptw

It runs for about 45 minutes. It’s up there for another 3 days. It’s written by a woman.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Ted July 24, 2012 at 15:10

I see my comment has gone into moderation. The play may expire before there is time to hear it. The one I am talking about is:

The Womb Whisperer 20 Jul 12

Duration:
44 mins

Available:
3 days remaining

by Charlotte Bogard Macleod. Martha can hear voices of unborn babies, including her son Riot. They are all refusing to be born into a cruel world. Only Martha can save the day. Starring Juliet Aubrey, Shaun Dooley and Ryan Watson.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Highwasp July 24, 2012 at 15:29

Ron, yes, to sum it up – cooperation – instead of – competition – between men. As we men recognize that we are all more alike than different based initially on our gender/sex, is the day we redefine and control women’s sexual (and other influence) over “Us”.

Consider cooperation with our fellow man instead of competition, look at our similarities instead of our differences, leave the propaganda of ‘winner’ vs. ‘loser’ behind, stop watching sports, stop participating in Zero Sum games where one wins only because another loses. Non Zero Sum interactions create mutually beneficial results and are much better suited to creating honorable, trustworthy and respectful men.

Find ways to cooperate with other men even if it’s a simple change of perception in yourself which results in a friendly gesture at the grocery store. Let him know he’s not alone. Go away from an initial and immediate ‘sizing him up’ to acceptaning of him as your brother. Try immediately accepting your fellow man based simply on his shared experience as a man. I know you know what he feels. “Team Woman” does this for each every day – I invite all us men to joining “Team Man” and stop competing with each other. Cooperate.

Consider all other men and boys your brothers, fathers, sons and see how you become more peaceful and accepting of your fellow man and by extension, accepting of yourself. Or start teh other way around and accept yourself… either way – We men are strength, opportunity, your true equals – to compete against that is to compete against yourself.

A sense of brotherhood bringing men together can’t be beat. It’s what the Powers That Be fear the most.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Rocco July 24, 2012 at 15:53

@ Charles

Here we have a paragraph from the Rosen article I linked. To me this is saying that the behaviour of saving women you love is an instinct and not a behaviour men engage in with thought and therefore, women shouldn’t depend on men to be head of the household:

“Couples will often insist that the man is the head of the household even when he doesn’t seem to be checking any of the traditional boxes. When I ask how it’s possible that he should retain the title without any of the attending duties, I almost always get some version of the same answer: If anyone threatened us, he would rescue us. If someone broke into the house, I would call him. If anything happened to the children, if a fire, if a tornado, etc. Papers have described what happened in the theater as “chivalry.” But it’s not really that. Chivalry is a code of conduct connected to social propriety. Throwing your body in front of your girlfriend when people all around you are getting shot is an instinct that’s basic, and deeper. It’s the same reason these Batman and Spider-Man franchises endure: Because whatever else is fading away, women still seem to want their superhero, and men still seem to want to be him.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Hf July 24, 2012 at 15:58

I’ve had my share of run-ins with altruism in my day. Most involving my friends or other males, and most of which while in the military. However, two in particular, involved women. About 7 years ago or so, one summer while in college (after the military), myself and a handful of friends were inner tubing down the Cache la Poudre River (pronounced Pooter, like Cooter but with a P).

But before I continue, a little background- This river is right up into the mountains from the college town of Fort Collins. Every summer 100s, if not 1000s, of people (mainly college kids, drinking beer and smoking dope) tube down this river. Furthermore, there are still class II and III rapids (and even class IV rapids higher up) and commercial rafting companies regularly take people down this river, with the 8man rafts, river guides, life vests, helmets, the whole shibang. Later in the summer, after the majority of the snow has melted off, there is about a 6week to 2month period when the river gets rather low, ranging from about knee-deep all the way up to chest-deep in most of the river. Of course, there are some spots that can get rather deep, especially in the swells after big rapids/boulders. Also, this river is coming down directly out of the Rocky Mountains, and as such, though relatively shallow in most spots, and beyond being very frigid, it has a very, very strong current. A strong person can stand up in the shallowest of areas, but there is no chance of standing anywhere that it gets more than waist deep. Though numerous people do tube (different than rafting, usually without a life vest, and usually while drinking) down this river, it can be dangerous. Not often, but once in a while, there is someone whom unfortunately drowns, usually in the early summer when the snow is just starting to melt and the river is deep. It’s in no way a “lazy river”, but neither was it intimidating, as I and plenty of others, had tubed down it numerous of times before. Not to mention, I was only a couple years out of the military, still maintaining physical fitness, and a very strong swimmer and comfortable with currents (having spent a number of my childhood summers surfing off of the beaches in California- Huntington Beach, Corona del Mar, etc).

Anyway, on this day in late July some 7 years ago, my friends and I set out to tube down the river, beer and all. Not long after setting in, I came around a bend and I see a handful of girls scrambling out of the water, or already out, looking back across the river with obvious looks of concern on their faces, but otherwise doing nothing. I turn to look, and sure as shit, I see another girl about 25-30 feet away, slightly down river but out beyond the middle of the river, struggling to stay above water. She was just behind a big boulder/rapid, and must have fallen off of her tube after going over it and subsequently gotten stuck in the undertow/swell. (I heard in Australia or NZ there’s an actual sport where folks go down these sorts of rivers with nothing more than a boogey board and actively seek out these swells, diving head first to the bottom of them, and then getting launched back out to the surface. I believe it’s called “sledging”, and it sounds crazy as fuck lol). Quickly assessing the situation (this all happened in a flash, please mind), I can tell that the girl’s energy is quickly draining, and she barely had any fight left in her, and her tube is nowhere in sight. I immediately sit up on the edge of my tube and yell out to her “Do you need help!?”, knowing full well that of course she needed help, and already knowing full well the none of the other girls that were in the vicinity were going to be of any assistance. I see her nod, so I slip off my tube, grab it and throw it out to her. My thought was that she could catch it and then latch onto it and ride it out of the undertow. My aim is true, and as my tube flies toward her I can see her wide eyes following it through the air (almost like a goldfish’s eyes following something moving outside of its fish tank), but instead of reaching for it, she just watches it bounce directly off of her fricking head. And bam!, just like that, both her and I are now stuck withOUT an inner tube and she is still stuck. Again, this has all happened in a very, very short period of time, probably about only 20 seconds from the moment I first spotted her “friends” scrambling out of the river. But, by this time, I have now moved a good 10 feet past her, and she is now upriver from me. I remember thinking- “Well now, fuck me”, but also thinking that I couldn’t very well leave her, as her friends pretty much already had done, so I start my struggle back upriver and out to the middle to grab her.

Now, this girl stuck in the undertow obviously didn’t know what she was doing, because for some very strange reason, she was actually fighting the current, almost as though she had gotten turned around and didn’t know which way was down river. Nonetheless, she was only keeping her head above the water a very small fraction of the time, less and less with each passing moment, going under for a few moments then reappearing, only to go back under almost immediately, eyes wide, gasping for breath, mouth open like a scream but without sound. No sooner do I get to her and wrap her up does she go completely limp, immediately pulling me under the river with her. If anyone is familiar with really high-current rivers, than you will know that you don’t actually swim in them, but rather it’s a combination of swimming and scrambling with your feet and legs looking for a purchase while being jostled off the rocks at the bottom. At this juncture, with her dead weight making it near impossible to do anything other than sink and tumble along the bottom, I’m thinking to myself, “Well shit, I’m going to drown saving some chick whom I don’t know fuck-all about”. So I yell at her to keep trying else she will drown us both. And, to my relief, she does start put forth some more effort, however small, but enough to allow me to keep us both above water and work my way back to the riverbank. I drag her ass out of the water and she collapses on her back, coughing and sputtering but otherwise OK.

My shins, knees, hands and elbows all scraped up to bloody hell from the rocks, her “friends” (must have been 6 or 7 of em), and her boyfriend (apparently he had been so far UPriver that he missed the whole thing) come running up, some of girls crying and others gasping as though they had just exerted tons of effort saving a stranger, asking me if she will be ok. After briefly explaining to the boyfriend what had happened, he genuinely thanked me. Not a single one of the girls gave two shits about the blood dripping down my legs and arms, and not a single one thanked me, not even the girl I pulled from the river.

I turned my back on them and walked away, never looking back, thinking to myself- “Well fuck them” and shortly after that “Now how in the hell am I going to get down the rest of the river without an inner tube?”

That experience combined with another shortly after (I was in the car with a girlfriend, she was driving, and on the highway ahead of us we saw a car swerve off the highway at an off-ramp and go head first into a guardrail at 75MPH. The car burst into a massive puff of white smoke from the smashing glass and deployed airbags, and immediately flew into the air flipping end-over-end into the field off the side of the highway. It was one of those accidents that more than likely everyone inside was killed on impact but all the same I shouted “We have to stop!” and she wasn’t having any of it, I could tell she was scared. There was a 2 or 3 second pause where I was wondering to myself WTF? and I even considered pulling on her steering wheel to try and get her to pull over, but instead I pulled out my cell phone and called 911). These two events, happening so close to one another, and involving women directly, caused a schism of sorts in my mind when it comes to altruism.

I believe, as Mr. Price and others have written, that altruism is a characteristic of men, and not a social construct forced on men. And it is definitely NOT a characteristic of women. Up until then, I had never really thought too much about it, but have thought about it since. And, like others have written, it is now a conscious choice for me to not risk myself. I can’t, in my right mind, willing risk myself for any woman who doesn’t give two shits about anyone other than themselves. I doubt I would have drowned that day, because even if she didn’t put forth that little bit of effort at the end, I certainly could have just let go of her. But there it is, all the same.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 0
Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 16:33

yes ron you are right:

“Ron July 24, 2012 at 13:58

@GBFM

Tailor your style to the audience.

Tucker Max doesnt visit this site.”

but influential folks such as bernard chapin from chapin’s inferno do visit this site. and they celebrate and promote da secretive taper of butthexter tucker max:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSoLWFtRbuw

since not one of you have ever questions this, it makes me wonder, how many of you support and worship da sceetrve taper of buttehxt rtuecker max who lies about his heaight?

how many of you think this is manyly and alpha, like beranrd chapin does?

does sectrivee tpaing of buttehxt make you laugh?

den why are you passing judgement on me da GBFM? as i don;t enjoy nor clbraterte no r partate in sectriev tapings of butthext.

zlzozozoozoz

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 16:42

Yes Ron!

“Ron July 24, 2012 at 14:13
My attitude towards women is changing in that I do not wish to show kindness or consideration towards a woman because she deserves it, but rather because I wish to show kindness to my brother, who is conerned with her.”

You hit upon the fundamental limitations of game. Every time you bed a woman by game, you are bedding someone’s future wife, and taking a bit more of her soul away.

Ron–you think like a man–in the more exalted realm of a brotherhood.

Most PUAs think like women–constant warring and fighting and peacocking to be the first to desoul–to f*** both his brother and his brother’s future wife, while his PUA brother seeks to do the same to him.

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Keyster July 24, 2012 at 16:58

Once the feminists broke the code of chivalry, men have no reason to sacrifice themselves for any women except their own, as they are now equal and do not ‘belong’ to another man who would do the same for yours.

Contrast the RMS Titanic (1912) to the MS Estonia (1994) as an illustration of the shift in consciousness of men against chivalry and valor towards women. The Titanic was fairly calm and orderly as the Birkinhead Drill was strictly adhered to. The Estonia was “every person for him or herself”. The survivors of the shipwreck were mostly young, of strong physical composition, and male. Tales of “male cowardice” and bullying for life boats abound. Ironically most of the passengers were Scandinavian, indocrinated by the feminist sciences, so it only figures that they were practicing the Gender Equity Drill.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 17:28

Hey Ron,

Have you ever protested against Tucker Max? Or spoken out against him? Or do you just want others to do all the work in your brotherhood, where you will be the King?

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 17:33

Hey Ron,

“GreatBooks….. your confused style and your lewdness, detract from the valid points that you make. Especially the endless comments about butt$#*… Sodomy is an abomination, even if heterosexual, and I for one prefer that it not even be mentioned.”

Yes, I agree.

So why do all the modern Christians allow and exalt sodomy in their churches? Technically speaking, sodomy includes blowjobs, handjobs, and “heavy petting,” which churches embrace and sanctify these days.

When was the last time a Christian Book came out lamenting the desouling and debauching of our culture and currency (Dante placed the counterfeiters in the same level of hell as the sodomites), of our women–our wives and daughters?

My style is fairly plain, when compared to the confused, contradictory style and lewdness of the modern church, which exalts divorce, debauchery, sodomy, theft via the inflation tax, marxist feminism, and even butthext. lzozozozozozlzoz

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 24, 2012 at 17:34

hey Ron,
if the women of a generation are buttcocking and being buttcocked
and a man states
“the women of my generation are buttcocking and being buttcocked”
is the man
sinning
in the church of King Ron
by using the word
buttcocking
while the women are innocent
as they buttcock
in (relative) silence?

lozozozozozzloz

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2
Richard July 24, 2012 at 18:37

I have scoured Jezebel and Forbes Women in vain for protestations of the outrageous statistical discrepancy between [men dying for women] vs. [women dying for men] during this incident.

It seems like 3 divided by 0 is a bit more than 0.75, but my math is rusty.

Can anyone clarify this?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
marlon July 24, 2012 at 18:45

“I know most here would disagree with me outright, but think about it, feminists have given us a choice: You are going to take your eye out of it’s socket one way or the other; the choices we have “gleefully” provided you are a knife or a spoon. Have fun boys.”

Bastardo, you are a man; reject these “choices”.
If it is a family that is your number one goal, go for it in a non-feminist or less-feminist country.
If screwing lots of women is your goal, go for it.
If using escorts is your goal, go for it.

You sound beaten and lost.
Pick a goal, dust yourself off and go for it.
Go forth and conquer, man.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
Badpoet July 24, 2012 at 20:39

Self-sacrifice is contrary to our nature, whose main rule is self-preservation. Self-sacrifice is taught, and it’s taught by those who benefit from it.

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Ray Manta July 24, 2012 at 21:22

Lyn87 wrote:
I found myself in a similar situation about two months ago. I was outside a store and I heard a commotion in the parking lot behind me. When I turned I saw a young man and a young woman struggling with each other, with the young man besting her.

There are a whole host of reasons why it would be unwise to get involved. These include but aren’t limited to the following:
(1) It can result in legal trouble and/or criminal charges against the ‘white knight’.
(2) It could be a setup.
(3) She could end up attacking a rescuer or serving as a witness against him by police.

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jaego July 24, 2012 at 22:10

Nice, Ron. That’s been my experience too: men find it incredibly exciting to betray a friend to make himself look good to a new woman. And that’s how the evil Elite can rule us – we are mere atomized individuals and they are a self conscious group. The may not be Brothers, but they sure know how power works.

Traditionally in the West, the King is first among equals among the Nobles. Alexander the Great was preparing to betray his culture when he died. He loved the Persian/Babylonian status of God King which they endowed him with. He hated the way his old comrades talked back to him. So he was training up a new army of young Persians who would worship him. With these he was going back to Greece to put down any revolt – and then on to the rising star, Rome.

There is such strength in Brotherhood – the forgotten component of our Democratic Republic. I once saw a movie about the three young male lions – brothers, who unlike most, stayed together. They were unstoppable, easily routing single alpha male lions and sharing the females among themselves.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
evilwhitemalempire July 24, 2012 at 22:15

here, i reckon, is the best way to clarify

we take bullets for those who will bear and help raise OUR offspring (good wives, mothers)

NOT for sluts who steal from us and raise our kids half assed

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walking in hell July 24, 2012 at 22:53

“Krauserpua described an incident outside a strip club where four men were attempting to get the attention of the stripper sent outside to bring men in, he noticed how each man was backstabbing and throat cutting his fellow.”

When I was in Czech Republic I noticed this behavior when I was hanging out with different groups of expats. American men and British men would become jealous of each other and compete with each other when one of the many prostitutes approached them on the street. The prostitutes were not even good looking.

I always had to step in and remind the men that she a prostitute; not a female president or queen, to sacrifice and die for.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
JFinn July 24, 2012 at 23:27

OT: We knew this was coming. James Holmes groupies:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ttvpxg1lfesjpg/original.jpg

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tiredofitall July 25, 2012 at 00:43

“Personally I pretend I never noticed anything going on. I don’t want to get involved. Just because I’m stronger, faster and more capable doesn’t mean I have to risk sacrificing myself. It’s become a conscious choice, because I’ve helped far too many women without even getting a “thank you” in return. They either expect help from a man as a right, or they resent having to depend on a man in the first place. There’s zero reciprocity. Male Heroism might be innate, but avoiding it is learned behavior.” – Keyster

Long before I ever had any inclination of what the MRM was, or before being introduced to the “red pill” I cultivated a “Somebody Else’s Problem field”.

That lady in trouble with her boyfriend outside Blockbuster Video? Not my problem.

The neighbor who got seven shades of shit beat out of him by his wife?
I felt for the man sure, but again not my problem.

My then girlfriend holding my camera equipment hostage until I promised to take her on a vacation?
Yeah, my problem. But to be fair, once I got the $8000 worth of stuff back I basically told her to go fuck herself with a broken beer bottle.

My point is the “Somebody Else’s Problem field” is something I’m seeing a lot of guys spontaneously work on without anyone telling them to do so. And I’ll be quite frank, it makes me happy as hell to see what result it has on the XX segment of the population.

When I was 16-19ish seeing a woman at the side of the road with a flat tire or engine trouble, you knew she’d get help by some schmuck sooner rather than later. Fast forward to now?

Ha ha ha oh God, it’s so funny to see some bint stuck by the side of the road with a flat, or the hood of her car up and smoke belching out, and NOT A SOUL stopping to lend a hand.

Oh sure, occasionally you’ll get another woman stopping to make sure she’s okay, but let’s be real that’s about all the help she’s gonna be able to offer.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
Dannyfrom504 July 25, 2012 at 01:47

I hunt.

I know women who “hunt”. But they ALWAYS hunt with a man present.

I hunt alone, or with a male friend. Telling?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Eric July 25, 2012 at 02:39

Here’s an interesting question: where are all the women who complain about the ‘lack of good men’ now? I haven’t heard a word out of any of these bitches yet wishing that they could find a man who’d actually take a bullet for them.

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freebird July 25, 2012 at 03:55

Great post ron.
The Marines leave no man behind.
Compare and contrast that with life in “The World.”

Exactly opposite.
I’m seeing less and less societal respect for the boys coming home,maybe it’s because the TeeVee isn’t covering the fighting like it did with nam.
Everyday it was live action scenes,and blood.
We just don’t feel it anymore,it’s like a poorly written fiction.

$100 sez no wymyn in that theatre yelped out “I’m an empowered woman,get off of me!”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Darryl X July 25, 2012 at 04:38

@ Lavazza -

“If errors have no or little cost for the individual making them, more errors will be made.”

Excellent point. If I may expand on it… Our current age of technology allows people to do everything (certainly communicate) faster. And in doing everything faster, we make mistakes faster. Unfortunately, no one checks for mistakes as fast as they are made and they accumulate and corrupt or contaminate the system until the system completely fails. That’s where we are today with politics, society, finance and law. Too many mistakes and not enough correction. The entire system is in complete collapse. Complete free-fall. The only invention more important than the wheel is the brake. We’ve invented lots of great wheels but have not invented any brakes for them.

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TiredGuy July 25, 2012 at 05:07

@ Josh

I just read the newspaper sites (as in the digital version of an actual printed newspaper), but I’m not too familiar with the American newspapers to remember which one. I think it was a New York paper.

All I do remember is that there were three that stayed, protected and got shot – and one that fled from his girlfriend and _her_ children. It just stuck out for me that it wasn’t _his_ children, so I’m guessing (english is not my first language) that it means that these were the girlfriends children to another man. Hence why he probably ditched her.

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anonymous July 25, 2012 at 06:33

Breaking News: Women are showering love and affection to men who survived the shooting despite putting their bodies to catch bullets for females… NOT!

Women are lining up to show how they are attracted to the shooter… see twitter messages: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ttvpxg1lfesjpg/original.jpg

How many days have passed since the shooting?

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Rafael July 25, 2012 at 08:06

@anonymous:

lol. Not surprising.

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Darryl X July 25, 2012 at 08:07

@ GB4M re July 24, 2012 at 17:33

Keep preaching it, Brother.

And don’t forget to mention that our system of usury created by the Central Banks is the primary mechanism by which feminists are rewarded for their crimes. I believe this expression is the definition of “Bernankification”.

And that marriage is the primary institution which the Central Banks predate upon to destroy all good men through women. All our women have been Bernankified. Asscocked. Desouled. Prostitutized. Whorized. Or Whorified.

An important step in saving our civilization from feminism is destruction of the Central Banks. Andrew Jackson back in the early nineteenth century was successful in expelling the Central Banks from the US.

But later, the Central Banks had Lincoln and then Garfield assassinated. And finally they were successful in instituting the Central Banks in the US.

When Kennedy instructed the US federal gov’t to start printing five and ten notes independent of the Central Banks, he was assassinated two or three weeks later. Not a coincidence.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
freebird July 25, 2012 at 08:24

@HT
Enjoyed the whitewater story.
Was fishing with a neighbor on a calm lake that could not swim,he was concerned about drowning.Asked if I could swim.Answered “Yes, used to be a lifeguard,if you were drowning I could most likely save you IF you didn’t fight me.”

Blank stares.
Really sad that girl didn’t have the mind to thank you.Or her friends.Just the Bf, as you said.
It seem they are blocked from the concept altogether,doing or thanking.
(just taking)and taking,and taking,and taking.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
Charles Martel July 25, 2012 at 09:59

Hf
Not a single one of the girls gave two shits about the blood dripping down my legs and arms, and not a single one thanked me, not even the girl I pulled from the river.

Great story. Well done, by the way. If I were that girl I’d want to know who you were so I could send you a birthday card every year for the rest of my miserable life.

To women, men are public utilities. We supply cash, sperm and life-saving services as required.

A woman would have stood on the bank and watched you drown, secure in the knowledge that no-one could expect her to try and save you as she is far more valuable than you.

On the other hand I would find it very difficult to watch someone drown, male or female, knowing that I might be able to save them even at serious risk to my own life. Is that screwed up or what?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Eric July 25, 2012 at 11:18

anonymous:
‘Women are lining up to show how they are attracted to the shooter.’

Totally predictable. Less than a week since the shooting, already Holmes is headed for the ‘Hottest Guys in America’ list.

You go, grrrlz!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
Eric July 25, 2012 at 11:49

hf:
Great story. The problem isn’t with male altruism—you did what any man worth his salt would do. The problem is with female sense of entitlement, contempt of men, and ingratitude towards us. That’s the real lesson of your story and the theatre shooting as well.

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Anonymous age 70 July 25, 2012 at 21:49

>> I know Anon 70 will tell you to go to Mexico, but you will want to be young enough with your kids to see grandkids, their weddings, you know; what our grand parents had.

Actually, Mexico is only one choice. Different men find different places work for them.

Expatting is not for everyone, and I am the first to say that loud and clear. And, not for just one reason.

Expatting is for those who would like to marry, to have kids; and have grandkids, but view it as child abuse to have children by an AW. A significant percentage of men do not expect to have what their grandparents have.

@highwasp on cooperating

I remember a few years before I retired, I went out on a very cold Saturday morning, like 20 below, to a grocery store. I sat in my car, probably waiting for my wife. A man with poor clothes came out to his old, beat up junky car, and it wouldn’t start. I drove up and offered to give him a jump.

This poor man had to be a divorced father. He looked as if he had been run over by a truck, emotionally speaking. After I gave him a jump and his old car started, he asked how much he owed me. I told him, nothing, we men have to stick together. He actually looked shocked someone had helped him, free.

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Ron July 26, 2012 at 02:49

@GBFM

Im not a Christian, but I always liked CS Lewis. He gets some things very wrong, but for the most part he has a good heart. He wrote a very good series of books called the “out of the silent planet” series.

I think if you havent read the series, you would find yourself very pleased to go through it. You can get it online.

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Ron July 26, 2012 at 02:54

@freebird

Those are very kind sentiments. I do not know why, but New Yorkers in general seem to have a soft spot for marines, I am no exception. Its probably because Bug Bunny was a marine.

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PeterTheGreat July 26, 2012 at 08:36

Perhaps AFOR is right in some respects about DNA. DNA is the double helix which carries information. The information for eye color, etc., is coded in for every human.

However, the genes are different for each racial family, and each individual within the racial family. Otherwise race would not exist, nor would individual differences; let alone, hair and eye color.

Thus the statement about only helping those with our own DNA or who are carrying it, should be be changed to those with our genes. Then it is understandable and true.

See Ben Stein’s “No Intelligence Allowed”, dvd for an understanding of this complexity, and the suppression of real science in favor of a false evolutionary theory.

By the way, there is no such thing as “junk dna”. For many years evolutionists talked about “vesitigial organs” which are organs and glands supposedly from an earlier evolutionary stage which are still with us. These included the tonsils, appendix, thymus, etc. Some 26 different organs.

Now we know that the tonsils are integral to the immune system, as is the appendix and thymus, etc. The view point was wrong because of rejecting man as a creation, not an evolved amoeba. Second, because science had not advanced enough to appreciate the incredible complexity of even a cell, let along an organ, or system in the body.

So it is with “junk dna”. Science doesn’t know what these areas of dna are, so they label them “junk”. They are becoming better understood, however, and are being found to be incredibly complicated computer programs for replication, inheritance, to prevent male genomes from degenerating such as does the female, etc.

In other words, as God’s creation, man is incredibly complex and the wonders of dna found in so-called “junk dna” is only beginning to be understood.

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Josh the Aspie July 26, 2012 at 08:52

WOW. I actually found a copy of the story we were discussing earlier on THE BLAZE. I really expected better from that site, but I guess not.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/an-awkward-engagement-woman-agrees-to-marry-man-after-he-ditched-her-in-aurora-theater/

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Josh the Aspie July 26, 2012 at 09:00

@TiredGuy

I actually managed to find a copy of the story on The Blaze. Again, he’s being called a coward, and people are upbraiding him, and saying he’s not worthy. Then again, at one point they actually say that the children are his. I wonder if that’s new info, or an error in reporting.

If they are his children, then there is a difference in implication in leaving them behind than leaving behind someone else’s children.

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AnonymousWolf August 1, 2012 at 09:35

i think the MRM exists as a reaction to the demonization, the denial of the things men fought for in history, spitting on male sacrifice. i do not believe masculinity needs to change in anyway, only the world has turned upside down.

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