Why Aren’t Young Men Going to Church?

by W.F. Price on July 15, 2012

It’s a Sunday, so I thought I’d highlight one of the recent trends in “Christianity,” which involves belligerent, white knight pastors belittling men in their churches. If you really want women (perhaps including your wife) to see you treated like a contemptible wuss, church is just the place for that.

Any man who would put up with the following tirade and not get up and walk out, never to return, has absolutely no self-respect:

Shaming men in front of women is about as nasty as it gets, and a pretty effective demoralizing tactic (if a woman you are with ever sets you up in that manner, e.g. invites some man to humiliate you in her presence, leave her immediately and decisively) that’s all but guaranteed to make men less attractive in the eyes of any present women. Pastor Mark Driscoll and his confederates may say that the message is intended for men, but that’s obviously not entirely true. He wants the women to support him, because they are the bread and butter of the church, and knows full well that they witness him treating the men in this manner. I’m sure there’s a calculation in there somewhere.

The bottom line is that going to churches where you’re berated for being a man makes you less attractive to women. It’s a toxic culture for men who want the women in their lives to respect them, which is a condition for a woman’s love, and probably contributes to the sky-high divorce rate in Evangelical churches. In fact, although you’d never hear it come out of these preachers’ mouths, what they are really doing is providing an apologia for adulteresses. I’d give them the benefit of the doubt and suggest that in many cases they are not aware of this, but just as ignorance is no excuse in a secular court, according to their deity it provides no defense for sin, either; especially not for preachers:

Luke 12:47:

And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

{ 231 comments… read them below or add one }

Art Vandelay July 15, 2012 at 09:13

Maybe you should rephrase the question, “Why are young Christian men not going to church”. I’m an atheist, what would I do in a church?

I wonder what the ratio is like in Mosques in Western countries.

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Ron July 15, 2012 at 09:16

He’s also speaking nonsense.

No prayer goes to waste, especially the prayers of the depraved. If anything, such people can be answered more quickly. Sometimes to give encouragement to a bad man who wants to be good, and sometimes, intestingly, because the man is a hypocrite and God would prefer the gentleman in question to get what he wants and go away.

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"The One" July 15, 2012 at 09:19

Amen, brother. Amen.

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W.F. Price July 15, 2012 at 09:29

Maybe you should rephrase the question, “Why are young Christian men not going to church”. I’m an atheist, what would I do in a church?

I wonder what the ratio is like in Mosques in Western countries.

-Art Vandelay

I went to a mosque once to interview the imam, and it was full of young men. The women had a separate room in the basement, and I never saw any of them.

X7 July 15, 2012 at 09:53

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Young Guy July 15, 2012 at 09:53

I went to church when I was a kid with my mom, but I stopped going when I became an adult. There were too many salad bar Christian women at our church who wanted to pick and choose what and what not to follow. Our church was filled with a lot of divorced women and women who hated the idea that the man should be the head of the household. A lot of the female members had no respect for men, and were often hostile towards men, thereby undermining male authority. The pastor always glossed over any bad deed done by women in the Bible, but always made sure to highlight any bad deed done by men in the Bible. During my time at church, I never heard anyone take women to task for being horrible mothers/wives or for being promiscuous. It was the usual “women can’t do anything wrong” spiel that is everywhere else in society. I wasn’t the only male who left the church. When I left the church roughly a decade ago, it was probably 60 percent women. Now, it is probably closer to 80 percent women.

Why did I stop going to church?

Just like everyone and everything else in my life, the church I used to attend spit in the faces of men in exchange for the approval of women.

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meistergedanken July 15, 2012 at 09:54

Historically, I always thought it was quite interesting how Christianity spread in the first place. For a couple centuries after the birth of Jesus, a competing cult throughout the Roman Empire was that of Mithras, and for a while was a serious rival, particularly with the elites like Senators. It was especially popular with soldiers and indeed, some scholars believe it was a religon for men only (as women’s names do not appear on the extant membership lists). It petered out by the Fourth Century, however, while Christianity continued to spread, primarily by two means:

1. “Alpha” preachers and missionaries (and sometimes martyrs) who fearlessly braved the perils of pagan and hostile lands to spread the Word.
2. Wives of rulers who convinced/cajoled their powerful husbands into either: converting to Christianity themselves, or outlawing competing religions in their domains. This strategy was particularly effective in Northern Europe.

So in a sense women have always been behind the scenes propping up the Church, and so the incentive to pander to them always existed – we kind of lost that battle centuries ago! If only we could revive the mysteries of Mithraism…

In related news, a recent athiest conference was noted for the pronounced decline of female attendees. Sounds like fodder for another article.

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Josh the Aspie July 15, 2012 at 09:54

I’ve witnessed a complete lack of respect of the father in a marriage wind up with a divorce. I was not privy to all of the details, but when I saw the woman grouping him in with her children as “her boys” it… was jarring. I found out that they went to a couple of marital counceling sessions. The man refused to go back after a few sessions, and of course was blamed for it. I find it entirely credible that a lack of respect by the mother will lead to divorce.

As for the man above in the video? I’m not his judge. However, this biased, one-sided preaching, continually calling women “God’s daughters” without calling the men his sons; the shaming and blaming of the men for everything, without upbraiding women involved in putting their hands all over men, concieving outside of marriage; the belittling of all the men in his audience as a collective, without qualifiers, and not belittling a single woman, but leading her to dangerous and harmful pride… that all smacks of a false gospel to me, one different from the one that was preached.

There are a few very important passages concerning false teachers.

Galatians 1:8 – But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Luke 17:1-3 – Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves.

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John July 15, 2012 at 09:59

To hell with this damned “preacher”.

I would stand up in front of that congregation and tell him to.

Today’s so-called “Churches” are chock-full of narcissistic sluts and almost nothing except manginas behind the pulpit. The former are empowered by the latter who have spent the last 10 decades (if not longer) “feminizing” Christianity to the point that it would not be recognized as the same belief system that existed for the previous 1900 years.

“God’s daughters”?

Yeah. Right.

What we have today is damn near nothing but a passel-full of rebellious Jezebels, both to their husbands and to the Law of God.

Any man who sits and listens to this sort of shit is no man at all. God loves those who love and follow HIS LAW, for what is grace? The Greek translation is defines as “in favor of”, and if we are not following His law we are no longer in His favor regardless of what some damned wolf in sheep’s clothing S.O.B. preacher argues to the contrary. When these damn daughters quit acting like whores and snowflakes, then they should be treated like “God’s daughters”. Until then, they are and should be rated barely above a street-walking slut.

Again, to hell with such preachers. They empower evil.

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Laguna Beach Fogey July 15, 2012 at 10:12

Christianity, at least in its liberal form, is poison to men.

No wonder the Vikings resisted Christian expansion so ferociously.

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Uncle Elmer July 15, 2012 at 10:14

The “Preacher” shtick is a pretty good gig. They get a lot of ass, and the entrance requirements are minimal.

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Black Rebel July 15, 2012 at 10:21

If God is everywhere, then what’s it to him if I don’t wake up and go spend an hour listening to musty proselytizing on why I as a man (which God also is) am the problem with the world today?

If he’s everywhere, then on Sundays am I not free to sleep in, golf, nurse a hangover, read a book, get breakfast with my Dad, go fishing or go for round two with whoever I invited over on Saturday night?

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Pugs Fugly July 15, 2012 at 10:22

Recently divorced, I was getting reacquainted with a woman I went to church with several years ago. I hadn’t been myself in about six years, and my ex-wife and I never went.

She immediately insisted that I come back to church, and bring my daughter, and while this didn’t bother me, her late-in-life re-assessment of what she wanted in a man most definitley did.

Here was a gal who’d been spun into vertigo by the carousel, only to fly off and land in church. Her apparent assumption is that church is the only place she’s likely to find a “good man.” Her list of qualities in what she considered to be a “good man” was a mile long, and impossible to even attempt to fulfill. I wish her luck. The thing that most people seem to miss when quoting scriptures that reference marriage is that everything they describe was a lot easier to do back when all you had was your tent, your flock, or your farm.

Nowadays? Not so easy, especially when the prevailing mantra toward American husbands is “duty not reward.” I have to assume that most of the other single women in attendance have the same attitude, and that is why I won’t be going back to church any time soon.

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Justinian July 15, 2012 at 10:30

Women overtake men in IQ tests for the first time in 100 years:

Is that because the involuntarily celibate science nerds are being forced to subsidize the gang banger thugs’ bastard spawn who ordinarily would have starved without socialism?

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Uncle Elmer July 15, 2012 at 10:34

“Is that because the involuntarily celibate science nerds are being forced to subsidize the gang banger thugs’ bastard spawn who ordinarily would have starved without socialism?”

It’s the Beta Gap :

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?_r=1

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/opinion/brooks-the-opportunity-gap.html?src=recg

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Justinian July 15, 2012 at 10:37

Christianity, at least in its liberal form, is poison to men.

I wonder if Christianity was ever truly patriarchal at all, and now we are seeing what a female-centric religion it truly is.

A case could be made that the barbarian tribes that overran the Roman Empire were patriarchal before they converted to Christianity, and those tribes imparted on the religion a patriarchal character that has now faded away.

The “turn the other cheek” pacifism and economically collectivist tendencies in Christianity that inevitably subsidize female slutdom are not manly at all.

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akmaniak July 15, 2012 at 10:40

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Beltain July 15, 2012 at 10:42

@ Young Guy – “Salad Bar Christian Women”

No Kidding!!! Those are the absolute worst. They pretend to be Christian Spiritual and then turn and encourage very non-Christian female activity in all the women around them.

Forgetting every ideological bit of Christianity that might forbid them to do what they really want to do.

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freebird July 15, 2012 at 10:43

Another instance where the act of omission (by not going) to the churches will bring them to righteous downfall.

Women are incapable of solely supporting/maintaining any organization,all they can do is to colonize male spaces until those spaces are no longer male,then those spaces fall by the wayside.

I hear vampireism is very popular these days.
See the projection/parallels?

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Rebel July 15, 2012 at 10:44

In my opinion, the pastors, priests, rabis or whatever they call themselves are in fear of losing their attendance. So, in an effort to keep their congregations’s numbers above a certain economical level, they try to please their followers by doing what pleases their audience (female) the most: bashing men.

I do not beelieve that they are aiming at men (who, by the way, have already left the building): they are trying to keep their clients, thereby protecting their revenue stream.

It is basically the same technique used in TV ads.

When men are belittled, women feel good and the jayjays gets wet: we all know that. (basic animal behavior)

Where I live, (Quebec) where religion is just about gone, the only attendants are women past the age of 70. The men have abandoned church many years ago (I sometimes wonder if there was ever a time when men attended mass) and now the women are beginning to hate all things religious with a passion: they have been oppressed…

The religious fervor is probably specific to the Anglosphere: I remember, back in Belgium where I came from, only women went to church, and that was more than 50 years ago.

On a side note, if you check on youtube and look for “Higss’s boson”, you will see that this newly discovered particle is responsible for the Big Bang and, additionally, that God is no longer required to explain the existence of the universe.

Now, back to the subject at hand, I would not give the priests’s men bashing a second thought: what they say is basically irrelevant and illogical. None of that shit matters, really.

If you don’t like what you hear in church, well, either stand up and say it out loud or… convert to Islam. Or better yet, to Bouddhism.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all part of the same tree. They are all derived from preceeding religions. Somehow they all look alike. Same receipe…different spices.

An interesting subject nonetheless.

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Brian July 15, 2012 at 10:46

OT: Women’s expectations from a date today.

http://yahoo.match.com/cp.aspx?cpp=/cppp/yahoo/article.html&articleid=9125&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=1362560

Summary: Men are expected to have resources and an undying drive to obtain more resources so that they can always pay the woman’s way, to be perfect mind readers so that they can always say the right thing at the right time, presumably to induce clitoral tingles, and, of course, to be slave to the women they date. After all, it’s all about her and her only.

Women are fully exempt from any obligations whatsoever, are not expected to do anything whatsoever except feel pleasure, and the facts of anything will be whatever they say or feel irrespective of reality.

Such nonsense. People today are FUBAR.

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Art Vandelay July 15, 2012 at 10:46

Women overtake men in IQ tests for the first time in 100 years:

Hooray. I especially loved the bit where they used a survey with questions of trivial pursuit as an IQ (not knowledge) test.

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Keyster July 15, 2012 at 10:49

Religion has always used shame tactics to hold men accountable for their wives and children. These “preachers” live in a very cloistered world and therefore have very little idea of how government has shifted it’s bias towards legally protecting women, while the media exhalts them.

It’s a pious anachronism to believe the church still has such standing in the community and most homes. They still want to believe they’re the center of the culture (or at least their congregation), and what they pronounce based on “Biblical Teachings” has significance. Once the last parishioner is greeted and the church door closes for another week, nothing he said matters.

Muslim Imams perpetually shame men into being better husbands and fathers, more so than Christians. The difference is both men AND women of Islam are much more principled in their beliefs.

Western culture (and it’s politics) has much more influence over Christian women than the church “teachings”. That’s what the Christian church is competing against; Secular “gender egalitarianism” vs. God the Father. Either way, women are advantaged and men diminished.

You win with women, you win the culture – – and eventually the politics as well…from the Vatican to Madison Avenue to Hollywood to Washington DC…women have the Power. And until men turn off ESPN Sports Center and start to engage, it will only get worse.

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And Balls July 15, 2012 at 10:54

Because church is miserable and the girls are hoes. Old Timey Christianity is too negative and judgmental. Nobody likes the God of the old testament. Contemporary Churchianity is too feel-good and liberal. In its pursuit of being popular, hip, and modern the church has diluted the scriptures into utter meaninglessness. You can’t have it both ways. Either stick to the bible and contend with the consequences, or abandon the whole thing and make a new religion.

And, this has been said before, but I feel like reiterating: why wait for marriage with women who haven’t waited for marriage?

Back in college even the most devout girls made “mistakes” with their boyfriends. The best of them waited to have sex until they were engaged, but that’s still cheating. Incidentally, the only virgins I knew in the church were the “forever alone” guys. Involuntary abstinence is still abstinence, right? Right guys?

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Charles Walbridge July 15, 2012 at 10:58

There’s and interesting book “The Church Impotent,” by Leon Podles (I think). It documents the feminization of Western Christianity that has been going on for the last 800 years. Eastern Orthodox churches don’t seem to have this problem.

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AfOR July 15, 2012 at 10:58

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 10:59

This tirade is so ridiculous it’s laughable.

Coincidentally, I just listened to it just after returning from church and listening to a sermon about marriage.

And yes it was disturbing because throughout, it pedestalized women, condemned men, charicaturized both in a completely unrealistic way, obsessed about reasons for divorce by women that are unrealistic and statistically improbably, abrogated all authority to the woman in the marriage but absolved them of any responsibility and enslaved the men with all the responsibility, and excused her whoring and abuse and disrespect and criminal behavior.

Almost 60% of marriages in the US during the past forty years have ended in divorce, the percent increasing with progressive generations and the percent marrying decreasing with progressive generations. So when you hear that the incidence of divorce among the total population may be declining, it may only be because the percent marrying among the total population is declining precipitously. Approximately 80% of those divorces were initiated by the woman. Approximately 90% of women who initiate divorce get custody of their children and receive child support and alienate children from their fathers.

Almost all these women were not abused by their husbands but a majority of them abused their husbands and their children. Almost all these women did not have husbands who were lazy and did not work and did not support their families. Instead, almost all these women wasted money and destroyed the family’s finances. Almost all these women put themselves and the religious cult of feminism above their husbands and God. Almost all these divorced women collected child support and condemned their husbands to poverty and promoted a criminal subculture for complying with excessive orders for child support. Almost all these women to a great degree alienated children from their fathers.

Almost all these women committed adultery. Approximately 20% of mothers in the US do not know who the fathers of their children are. Approximately 10% of children are victims of paternity fraud. Another 10% of children are not victims of paternity fraud but the mothers still do not know if the father is her husband or partner or another man with whom she was cheating.

When will churches stop condemning men for the egregious criminal behavior of women? When will churches start condemning women and their egregious criminal behavior. My ex committed adultery, made real and deliberate and unprovoked attempts on my life, lied in court, falsified police reports, abused our children and alienated them from me, stole property, slandered me in public and to friends and family, and the list goes on. She is still a welcome member of her congregation and I was made a pariah – forced to go elsewhere.

These preachers are evil. They are being manipulated by the public spectacle of chronic victimhood by silly women. And they are exchanging condemnation of honest and Godly men in their congregations with women for political power. No different than what our government does with child support. These people make choices. They have choices. They choose very bad. And the consequences are that their congregations will be displaced by the same evil feminists which have destroyed every other institution in this country.

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jynxi July 15, 2012 at 11:04

This charlatan has it all wrong for he has let Satan’s harlots sit in God’s house.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 11:12

wonce upon a time mens wents 2 church 2 find a good wownenez lzozlzlzloz

wonce upon a time mens wents 2 church 2 find a good wownenez lzozlzlzloz to be a wife and mother and faithful honor cherish lzozlzzozlolzozlz

today woemnz go 2 churrhc 2 find a beta or gammamale to pay for their three children forrm three fatehrs who pumped dand dudmped theier zazzez afetr asszzcockcing them lzozlzlzlzo

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 11:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NeFhA_sL38c

“Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson: How Liberal Women Are Building a Shameless Society”

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Art Vandelay July 15, 2012 at 11:15

AfOR, on first glance with the alien thing I thought you were talking about Mormons, where god lives on the planet Kolob…

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Uncle Elmer July 15, 2012 at 11:17

OT: Women’s expectations from a date today.

http://yahoo.match.com/cp.aspx?cpp=/cppp/yahoo/article.html&articleid=9125&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=1362560

——————————–

It’s a laff riot. Would make a great video if you had burly men in drag doing their lines. Then there’s a piece by the same author advising women on their first date moves. You would think the folks at match.com would have a clue about dating.

Elmer’s advice, old man talking : No movies, no dinners. Keep your first encounters brief, time-limited. Most dates that start with a dinner and/or movie end badly. You are likely to end up trapped in a Denzel Washington epic or stiffly eating a plate full of crap, with no prospects for getting laid in the equation.

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zed July 15, 2012 at 11:19

This tirade is so ridiculous it’s laughable.

Coincidentally, I just listened to it just after returning from church and listening to a sermon about marriage.

These preachers are evil. They are being manipulated by the public spectacle of chronic victimhood by silly women. And they are exchanging condemnation of honest and Godly men in their congregations with women for political power.

Then, why did you go? And, how much did you leave in the collection plate?

I cannot understand the masochism of religious men who go in week after week for their beatings, and the remarkable sadism they show toward their sons to indoctrinate the boys that their role in life is to be berated and punished for the evil that women do.

Any man who supports this evil with his tithes, is just as culpable as the charlatans who preach this abomination.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 11:23

The modern “Christian” woman is just like the classical “Christian” woman, other than that she has had a lot of cocks in her butthole in college, whence she was desouled in secretive tapings of butthext and converted into a vehicle of wealth transfer, trained to hawk subprime loans in short skirts, while divorcing her husband, forcing him to give his assets to the fiat buthexting state, and seizing the children so a to drug/slut them up and dumb them down in the Corporate-State daycare system.

The modern fiat dollar is just like the classical gold-back dollar, other than that the central banks can print more at whim and give the dollars to their friends, thusly buttfucking the common man, in addition to his future wife.

zlzozzlzzoozzozlzo

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Gamerp4 July 15, 2012 at 11:25

jynxi July 15, 2012 at 11:04
“This charlatan has it all wrong for he has let Satan’s harlots sit in God’s house.”

You could have made a one line poem out of that sentence let me do it for you.

This charlatan speech on men has it all wrong
for he has let Satan’s harlots sit in God’s Throne.

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Rico July 15, 2012 at 11:26

This past Father’s Day I was encouraged to hear our pastor point out that a lot of churches use that day to beat up on the men in their congregations, and went on to praise the men in attendance. Just a short minute of acknowledgement, then he went on to preach on a unrelated subject. (The Mother’s Day sermon had nothing to do with mothers or women in general either)

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freebird July 15, 2012 at 11:26

Steps to civilizing the wild west:
1.Install Sheriffs and other agents of the law.
2.Open taverns complete with whores,to alieve male suffering.
3.Once civilized enough for women to come west,open the churches-for men *with* women.
This constant reminder that sins such as murder and adultery would be openly punished by the community at large was a major civilizing step.
Goes for all 10 commandments,it’s an outline on how to live in peace.
Lacking the guide of the church,the
lawless-law of the gun-rules,and in a society with unjust laws and improper churches,anarchy reigns.(again)

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 11:26

@ Beltain & Young Man -

I have observed among my wife and most other women that they attend church not for worship of God or to learn how to behave in a civilized world but to socialize. For them, church and religion are social opportunities and nothing more. I stopped attending church with my ex because she used it as an opportunity to gossip and slander me. Then she condemned me in front of others for not worshipping God and being subordinate to Him. Of course, no one condemned her obvious affrontery to God and the church. Certainly, they did not throw her out (which is what they should have done) but instead made the experience of worshipping God and attending church so miserable and unbearable that even I stopped attending. And I consider myself a very strong Chrisitan who has spent his entire life honoring and worshipping God in everything I do. And I still do, I just am very reluctant to worship in church or associate with those who pretend to worship and instead mock God.

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meistergedanken July 15, 2012 at 11:30

AfOR: 2,000 years ago Mary Magdalene even if impregnated via test tube

First of all, you are confusing Mary the mother of Jesus with Mary Magdalene; these are two entirely different people.

Second of all, the Catholic church only prohibited marriage for its clergy around the 12th century. The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry (before that they had wives, children and everything).

And I’m an agnostic, not a christian – still, let’s get our facts straight.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 11:34

The central pillar of Christianity was that a man would receive a Virginal Wife who had not fucked nor fornicated nor been butthexted in a federally-funded asscocking program.

Not only were women commanded to *not* suck and fuck, but Christ told them to not even think about it!

So, when you have a generation of women who are fucking and sucking and spreading their asscheeks for douchebags, they are not holding up their end of the “Christian” deal, and all bets are off.

Until preachers teach women to keep tehir gina holes and butt holes and mouth holes closed to all cockas other than their husbands, Christianity will remain an evil farce, facade, and fraud, with the soul purpose of enslaving men to desouled, asscoked, embittered, vengeful women.

lzoozlzlzozlzzozoozlzozozl

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 11:36

@ zed -

Why did I go? I don’t always anymore. I am reluctant most of the time. Attending church has become a discouraging and daunting experience enough of the time because it has been taken over by women. I have taken opportunities to educate our elders so they understand what is happening. That is pretty much why I go. I do not tithe. I used to. I am too poor to tithe anymore. All the women stole everything I have. I let them tithe (or not – most do not). If churches are expecting women to be a source of revenue, they are barking up the wrong tree. For the most part, I have not been an active member of any church during the past twenty-seven years. But that is because they have become so feminized that any good message elders have is deluted by their pandering to women. I continue to worship but by myself. I did not abandon the Church and God. The Church abandoned me and God.

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The Big Daddy C-Master July 15, 2012 at 11:37

Why would you give 100% to her and have her give none to you? I’d rather keep that 100% to myself and let her do what the hell she wants, which is probably to live in poverty if no man puts up with her.

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Raj July 15, 2012 at 11:42

Religion and spirituality are two different things.

All religious institutions are just there to reflect back what its audience wants to hear. Nothing to do with spirituality whatsoever.

In this case, the Church is simply giving the audience what it wants.

People with low self esteem regard people insulting them as correct, and the Church is there to give them that.

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TLM July 15, 2012 at 11:42

Driscoll’s been a fag for a long time, but that doesn’t top something I heard my 1st pastor say about 10 years ago. “Single moms today are the widows & orphans of the New Testament”. What a total crock of shit. We left that “church” behind shortly there after.

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Justinian July 15, 2012 at 11:42

Hmmmm it looks like my posts are getting auto-deleted on this thread.

Price, what rules have I run afoul of?

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Art Vandelay July 15, 2012 at 11:47

Second of all, the Catholic church only prohibited marriage for its clergy around the 12th century. The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry (before that they had wives, children and everything).

Why did they do that? So that property stays within the church?

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Attila July 15, 2012 at 11:50

Whine, whine, whine —-if you guys don’t want to participate in a gynocentric cult — Orthodox Judaism and Islam (many flavors) are waiting for you. Eastern Christianity too – would be a fine spiritual home for some.

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Jim BOB July 15, 2012 at 11:54

I made it about 40 seconds into that video then burnt down a church , sorry.
Church is no longer relevant , unspoiled nature is my temple , the ongoing discoveries of science my gospel.

As one commenter said Church is manly a social tool. And for men beyond sex , money , power socializing is a waste of time.

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walking in hell2 July 15, 2012 at 12:02

What is so ironic about Driscoll’s video is that the typical American woman is put on a pedestal and sold as some kind of great prize to be won. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The American woman is not a prize to be won, but a pig and a curse to be avoided. American marriage is not a noble institution to enter, but a fraud, that is likely to destroy your life: if not by divorce, then by unhappiness.

American women are such a bad product, only the hardest kind of sell, like Driscoll’s can move them as a product.

The following quote is often used by pastors:

“Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.”

But let’s not forget, in the past when a man found a potential wife, the woman was a virgin. If he married her, she was his for life and respected him and did what he asked. By this definition of wife, almost ALL American women are disqualified as potential wives; so the proverb does not apply to American women.

I can go as far to give an argument that it is immoral for American men to marry American women. Here is why?

1) Through her belief in adultery, materialism, and divorce, an American women is likely to bastardize or corrupt your children and this is anti-christian.
2) Through her rebellious nature, an American woman is likely to work against you in any type of Christian mission you might want to accomplish.

Whereas women of the past acted as a helpmeet to the man and assisted him in a lifelong vocation or ministry, today’s women can be expected to oppose the man and make his Christian life much less enjoyable and productive, if not completely destroy it.

American women simply are not fit for the wife or mother role; neither are they satisfied in the wife or mother role. Abandon them; and abandon America for marriage and family, or be celibate.

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woggy July 15, 2012 at 12:03
"The One" July 15, 2012 at 12:06

That sermon was devilry. In the name of Jesus, I rebuke him.

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Suz July 15, 2012 at 12:06

“In related news, a recent athiest conference was noted for the pronounced decline of female attendees. Sounds like fodder for another article.”

Not a surprise. Atheists tend to be highly intelligent AND thoughtful. Not easy marks for parasitic bimbos.

And being based in logic, atheism doesn’t give pussy passes.
(Pardon my French.)

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Zorro July 15, 2012 at 12:09

It started as religion.
Then it became a bully pulpit for feminists.
Now it’s a social club for the 50 Shades crowd.

What’s next? It will become a gynocentric parlour for tarot cards, astrology andgoddess worship.

When the Muslims emigrated to England, the English deacons gave their churches to the Muslims to use as mosques.

Our churches will soon become branch offices of the N.O.W.

Women invent nothing. Absolutely nothing, and then they fucking ruin everything they infest.

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Eric July 15, 2012 at 12:12

Zed:
Part of the reason feminism spread so rapidly throughout the Anglosphere and Scandanavia is because the puritan ethos of protestantism made it socially acceptable. Sexuality as sin, depreciation of the males, and the pedestalization of females are examples of puritan morality translated into feminist ones.

What the same puritan protestant churches are doing today is reactionary: they’re basically offering men Socon feminism—which is really just feminism with a stronger puritan element involved.

I wonder if there shouldn’t be a MGTOW movement of some kind in the spiritual realm—men abandon institutional churches and seek spirituality in their own ways.

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Eric July 15, 2012 at 12:25

WalkinginHell:

‘Driscoll puts women on pedestals as some kind of great prize to be won.’

This pedestalisation is a sickness that seems to infest Socon thinking. One of Thomas Fleming’s articles claimed that radical feminists and sluts wouldn’t be like that if there weren’t so many bad men who weren’t ‘manning up’ to their duties. I’ve heard Socons say similar things so many times, I’m sure that Driscoll is just parroting what he’s heard.

To believe guys like Driscoll seriously, one has to believe that all American women are basically tender, loving, little Cinderellas at heart, who long for fulfilment and happiness with a responsible man. And of course, these same Disney princesses are very giving women who strive to make ‘her prince’ happy.

Bowing down and worshipping totem-poles sounds more rational than believing what Driscoll preaches.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 12:31

Dear Eric,

you write,

“Zed:
Part of the reason feminism spread so rapidly throughout the Anglosphere and Scandanavia is because the puritan ethos of protestantism made it socially acceptable. Sexuality as sin, depreciation of the males, and the pedestalization of females are examples of puritan morality translated into feminist ones.”

Actually, the modern churches do not exalt puritanism, but they bastardize and debauch it via feminism.

Traditionally speaking, the pedestalization of females was based upon their *actions.* Sluts and whores were not pedestalized by honorable preachers.

Feminism spread so rapidly throughout the Anglosphere and Scandanavia not because of classical Christianity, but because the bankers’ feminism was able to bastardize and destroy classical Christianity.

Fifty short years ago the women sitting in the pews had zero sexual partners before marriage. Now, the vast majority have taken countless cocks in all their orificies, as they are deouled and prepared for their job of tempting men into marriage and seizing his assets and children, and handing them over to the corporate-state-church. :)

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zed July 15, 2012 at 12:42

@ Darryl X,

The Church abandoned me(n) and God.

I liked the way you answered my question, Darryl X. I know how difficult it can be for a man to turn his back on values long held and much cherished. It does seem to me, however, that the time does come to have to face the fact that the institutions identified with promoting those values no longer do – and in fact have started to promote the opposite. A very similar thing has happened within the “education” system.

It’s interesting to me that there seems to be an explosion of religious men – particularly Christian ones – becoming suddenly aware of “men’s issues”. It reminds me of the famous quote by Martin Niemöller -

First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Just as you have experienced, while the loudest attacks on men have come from the left, the killing blow has come from men on the right. It probably is a bit unfair to characterize religious men’s stonewalling any discussion about how perverse women were becoming as taking the attitude “Well, I’m right with God, so it won’t happen to me”, but there is some of that which went on.

The “inner sanctum” seems to have started in a lot of men’s minds at the edge of the churchyard. As long as they were on “the inside”, they were fine. But, suddenly, without warning, a lot of them found themselves on “the outside” – and, sadly, seemed baffled that no one was any more willing to speak for them than they had been for anyone else.

Attending church has become a discouraging and daunting experience enough of the time because it has been taken over by women. I have taken opportunities to educate our elders so they understand what is happening.

If they are so blind that they cannot see what is going on, and have to be “educated”, then they have no business being “elders.”

Dalrock handles this whole subject of religion much better than I do – having an insider’s perspective. I went through the years when “they came for me”, and survived them DESPITE the best efforts of “Christian” men. However, I had the advantage that I had blown them off years before and never made my well being dependent on them.

What I tried to do was convince them that “well, they are coming for me RIGHT NOW, but, soon, they will come for you.” I didn’t need them to save me – because I had Gone My Own Way decades ago, but I knew that the day would come when they needed saving from their betrayers. And, who would be left to speak for them?

The serpent is afoot in our world. In fact, the serpent controls it, and and the churches.

If we take the story of Genesis, and try to understand it as grand metaphor for the human condition, women’s almost universal belief in their moral superiority could be characterized as “having eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil”, and internalized it. In modern feminist terms, women know what is good and what is evil – all women and everything they do is “good”, and all men and everything they do is “evil.”

Quite literally, the voices of modern clergy are speaking the words of the serpent to women – “Do whatever you want, all those injunctions on you are just to spoil your fun. Men are to blame, anyway.”

What makes the current situation such an abomination is that even if “Adam” stood his ground, argued with “Eve”, and did not accept the evil she was trying to shove down his throat – dozens of White Knights would crawl out of the woodwork, knock him to the ground, and FORCE it down his throat.

The ostensible goal of “the church” is to help people avoid the temptation to sin, not to be the enablers of the sinful and enforce that sinfulness on even those men who know that it is wrong and try to resist it.

The the real name of the “Personal Jesus®” is Set.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mythology)

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zed July 15, 2012 at 12:47

I wonder if there shouldn’t be a MGTOW movement of some kind in the spiritual realm—men abandon institutional churches and seek spirituality in their own ways.

It’s been happening since the 1960s, and before.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 12:49

lzozozooz

the federal reserve replaced our rightful heritage da great books and classics and Church with tucker max assfucking rhymes with gold mans sax who butthexes and edeeosuls desouls your future wife and tapes it in secrets just like the federal reserve gives its money in secrete zlzoozzzo funding the feminisismst movements to deconstruct and destroy da great books and classics and churchchcesz

but if you are the one and only 2 talk about homer and virgil and dante at the spearhead, a the whiney assclowns ban you, as your exalted thoughts and prose interfere with their whinyyy whining lzozozlzoz

The answer is here for men. To truly man up and embrace the Iliad and Odyssey–the Bible and Shakespeare. Not to man up like Bill Bennett and Kay Hymowitz want you to, and just pay the bills and alimony of your asscocked, bernankified wife, but to TRULY man up, go forth, and find your true fathers as Telemachus did in Homer’s Odyssey. And you shall see, that as a MAN, the GREAT BOOKS and CLASSICS are your true FATHER. Not the whiney/whiners nor the neocon ladies at the Weekly Standard worshipping tucker butthexting max who rhymes with goldman sax.

The Federal Reserve had to deconstruct the Great Books and Classics because they contain the Moral Code of Honor that dictates one cannot covet another man’s wife, nor assets, nor asses, nor butthext his wife in da buttholoe ananal7atah lzozozozozo while taping it secretly which prisiclla painnition awards tucker max rhmeeys with goldman sax with hundreds of thousands of beenrnake dollars fresh outta da butthoellz zlozlzlzlo. As the primary business of the Federal Reserve is theft via the inflation tax, be it via corporate scandals or feminism, they had to get rid of your Father Moses’ THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.

and so u ssee why da bill bennetz and kay hyowowitxtits hate da GBFM and Moses Virgil Dantes lzozozozo

lozozzozzozozll

everyone needs 2 read MOBY? DICKUS!!! lzozlzl

Starbuck, first mate: To be enraged with a dumb brute that acted out of blind instinct is blasphemous.

Captain Ahab: Speak not to me of blasphemy, man; I’d strike the sun if it insulted me. Look ye, Starbuck, all visible objects are but as pasteboard masks. Some inscrutable yet reasoning thing puts forth the molding of their features. The white whale tasks me; he heaps me. Yet he is but a mask. ‘Tis the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate; the malignant thing that has plagued mankind since time began; the thing that maws and mutilates our race, not killing us outright but letting us live on, with half a heart and half a lung.

lzozozozoz

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Anonymous age 70 July 15, 2012 at 13:28

>>akmaniak July 15, 2012 at 10:40

>> Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

>> This video is a crock. It lifts Driscoll’s comments out of context. You should be ashamed for posting it.

So, Ms. White Knight, why don’t you put his comments into context for us poor sinners?

The problem is, many of Driscoll’s sermons have been put on Youtube, and the context is very consistent. Sluts whore around with men who never go to church, then when the harlots come to church with their spawn, pastors like Driscoll, trash out the men in the church who had nothing to do with it, for not volunteering to marry known harlots, and then pay child support and alimony after they divorce the idiots and go back to Bill the Biker.

It might behoove you to find out the hymen status of Driscoll’s wife when he married her.

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NWOslave July 15, 2012 at 13:28

@Art Vandelay July 15, 2012 at 10:46
“Women overtake men in IQ tests for the first time in 100 years:”

“Hooray. I especially loved the bit where they used a survey with questions of trivial pursuit as an IQ (not knowledge) test.”

That’s the modern miracle of calling anything that supports the ideology of the prevailing power structure a, “study.” If your Hanna Montana IQ in trivial persuit were higher you’d realize the error of actual intelligence based testing and brain scan analysis.
————
@ W.F. Price

Is that audio you linked for real? Or is it just satire? This sounds like it’s something that came out of our mainstream media, our schools or even our politicians. I know Christianity, organized churches anyway, promote the old men are evil, women are wholesome bit ad nauseum. But I hadn’t realized they’d drifted this far from the original teachings.

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zed July 15, 2012 at 13:50
>> This video is a crock. It lifts Driscoll’s comments out of context. You should be ashamed for posting it.

So, Ms. White Knight, why don’t you put his comments into context for us poor sinners?

The problem is, many of Driscoll’s sermons have been put on Youtube, and the context is very consistent.

As AA70 points out, all of Driscoll’s sermons on Youtube are just iterations of the same old schtick – “Women are perfect, men are awful.”

“Shame, shame, shame” on Bill for pulling back the curtain and exposing the evil which lurks behind it. How dare Bill expose evil?!!

I’ve said several times that the old social/cultural value system had both a carrot and stick: behave in social acceptable ways, and you were rewarded with the carrot of “respect”; behave otherwise and get beaten with stick of “shame.”

However, almost 50 years ago this culture decided “Screw the carrot, GIMME TWO STICKS!” If a man makes enough money to support a woman staying at home to take care of the kids, he is “oppressing” all women because “wimminzs only make 77 cents for every $ a man makes.” If he doesn’t, then he is a deadbeat.

If a culture takes away the respect side of the equation, and beats men with the shame stick no matter what they do – and in fact, beats them the worst for being decent types who try to do the right thing, while it rewards the sociopaths – the shame-stick loses its effectiveness.

In fact, the only thing that over-use of the shame-stick does is destroy the social credibility of the people who wield it over every real or imagined transgression – no matter how small.

Jimmy Swaggart (“Ah have sennned”) should be ashamed. John Edwards should be ashamed.

But, Bill, who has done nothing except shine a bright light on evil has done nothing be ashamed of.

And, some of the rest of us, have been beaten with the shame-stick so much, that we have developed callouses which are thicker than most people can believe.

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Anonymous age 70 July 15, 2012 at 13:51

That is Driscoll. Hit Youtube and put in Mark A. Driscoll.

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Anonymous age 70 July 15, 2012 at 13:54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxnPgXbiva4&feature=related

24 minutes

Driscoll on manhood, as if he knows what a man is. He lists five steps to being a man, the last one being to marry. He forgot the part about being divorced by an adulterous wife; tossed in jail for losing a job; sleeping under a bridge; and never seeing your kids.

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Suz July 15, 2012 at 13:56

Anon age 70 – that first “dislike” was a slip of the mouse. Make it a “like.”

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 13:59

“Why Aren’t Young Men Going to Church?” is tantamount to asking, “Why aren’t young men bending over to have their ass and assets taken by the satan-fronting modern church and its legions of butthexed, ernankified, desouled, haggard, womenz?” lzozozzlzoz

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 14:01

how the fatassed in the beltway neocon jonah goldber william benenetes operate lzozllzlzlzlzlzozo:

-1. butthext and deosul teh womenz of a generation
0. sit the little harlots in satanic church pews, and tell all the good men they must now man up and pay the bills and fund the future asscocking sesisons of all the harlots via child support and alimony
1. deconstruct the great books on univeristy campuses
2. tell men they need to man up
3. dumb down the entire schools system
4. tell men they need to man up
5. assrape men in divorce court
6. tell men they need to man up
7. send men to die on foreign shores in foreign neoocn wars
8. tell men they need to man up
9. drug boys with ritalin/adderoll for being boys
10. tell men they need to man up
11. encourage woem to giver thie aholes and ginaholes early and often to douchebags
12. tell men they need to man up
13. destroy the classical, heroic character in their neocon movies, replacing them with asscocking gay cowboys
14. tell men they need to man up
15. print money from thin air and inflate and dlate bubbes to seize a man’s home and property
16. tell men they need to man up
17. enocurage women to become fat, whiney bitches
18. tell men they need to man up
19. publish, promote, fund, and finance asscokers licke tucker max who film secrtive tap9ng of assockinhg session without the girl’s consent, tucker ma rhymes with goldam sax, repeating tucker’s lies that he is six fet tall inthe neocon weekly standadth .
20. tell men they need to man up
21. transofrm the church from an instititution where a man coul once go to meet a virginal, exalted wife, into a front for the divorce industry, where single mothers with three children from three asscockers go to rope in a betabmale to pay for the assocker’s spawn
22. tell men they need to man up
23. castigate, attack, and impugn men for acting like men
24. tell men they need to man up
25. transform the noble, exalted university into a nursery, ruled by neocon women exalting asscockers, asscokcing, and good grammar, exiling and deconstructing the great book and men, and rewading the servile future nannies of teh nanny state with fiat dollars delivered fresh from ben beranke’s helicopter
26. tell men they need to man up
27. remove all men from the publishing industry, so that priscialla painton of simon and schuster sodom and scheister can publish tucker max rhymes iwth godlman sax’s stories on how he asscoked a girl (somone’s future wife who will asscock her future huspband in divorce coutrt as revenge for having been assocked by a neocns) and taped it secrtly without her conthent lzozozlzoo. remove all men form the publishing industry and repalce deep, prodoufn real great books for men with twilight vampire asscocking female rape fanasty rape fanatsatsy “roamance” novels
28. tell men they need to man up
29. conceive of a hundred government programs to criminalzize men and force them o hand over their assetts to women
30. tell men they need to man up
31. financially incentivizee womem to file for divorce, promising them that their former husdband will have to pay for all their futrue assocking sessions, and that they get the kids/house/car/assetts
32. tell men they need to ma up
33. fill the law schools with fatm, embittered, burned-out, nasty (in looks an spirit) post-asscoked lawyeresses, an replace Moses’ and Zeus’s law with bernake’s banker laws whichexlats theft via the inflation tax
34. tell men they need to man up.

lzozoozozo

what aalalz am i mizssing here:???

feel free to addodoon ti oit! lzozlzl

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 34 Thumb down 25
Attila July 15, 2012 at 14:04

Every time I go food shopping at the local Whole Foods – I am reminded of why I stay away from American Womyn.

In this metro area – one in a hundred still behaves like a “lady” of other times. The rest would be considered “whores” or “skanks” in most parts of the world.

The sour expressions in their faces are enough to deflate the Hindenberg.

Ahhh – the benefits of going to Whore Foods!

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Anonymous age 70 July 15, 2012 at 14:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=3z-CprYLeoc

This is one of the videos excerpted. Few men he describes ever go to Christian churches. But, he verbally attacks the men in his church to please the women.

Also, he assumes women are saints, stupid saints who do not even know how they hooked up with the Bad Boys they prefer.

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Anonymous age 70 July 15, 2012 at 14:14

Thanks, Suz. However, I have been at this a very long time, and usually pay no attention to likes nor dislikes. I am well aware feminists and manginas come here to vote down anything men say that disagrees with their beliefs.

IMO, if men were real men, jerks like Driscoll would be at risk of being hung from the nearest tree, but what do I know?

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Anonymous age 70 July 15, 2012 at 14:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKDgEufMKvQ

>>Mark Driscoll tells us how he keeps his elders in line. This was the sermon he he preached minutes before firing two older respected pastors who had given up their professions and served Mars Hill faithfully and sacrificially.

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Days of Broken Arrows July 15, 2012 at 14:24

Two points.

First, anyone this obsessed with labeling innocent men as “abusers” is likely to be projecting. My guess is that by the tone of this guy’s YELLING, he’s done a bit of abusing himself. His unprovoked, insane-sounding tirade reminds me of the anti-gay obsessives/fanatics — and they sometimes end up the ones who are caught with other men.

Second, the white churches seem to be taking their lead from black churches. Did anyone see this story a few years ago about how black churches keep women single because they tell women no mere mortal man can measure up to Jesus? This is just pandering to female congregants.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-10/living/black.church.women.single_1_black-women-black-church-black-men?_s=PM:LIVING

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Alan Vaughn July 15, 2012 at 14:25

@NWOslave

That’s the modern miracle of calling anything that supports the ideology of the prevailing power structure a, “study.” If your Hanna Montana IQ in trivial persuit were higher you’d realize the error of actual intelligence based testing and brain scan analysis.

Also take into account the ‘highly reputable and ethical’ newspaper reporting on the “study”: The Daily Misandrist Mail.

Everyone: just ignore that ‘scoop’ and anything else reported in that feminist tabloid (unless you’re a trolling middle aged femi-hag).

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Russ July 15, 2012 at 14:31

This pandering to the female ego, by male pastors, has to be motivated, in part at least, by these pastors’ fears of being displaced by lesbian pastors in the same way that male gynecologists largely have been eliminated in favor of females.

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Blue Blazer !!!! July 15, 2012 at 14:34

The atheist Protestant churches have leaders who fuck men.The Catholic church has leaders who fuck boys. Perhaps you should avoid fags and boy-rapist churches. I do.And I am joined by almost all Christians.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 14:43

Today’s “Church”
is little more
than a front
for the banking cartel’s divorce and child-support industry
today’s church
is like a used car lot
where the pastors and preachers
try to get you to buy
a cum-guzzling, beatup old woman
with dents and dings from lotsa cockas
with suspension damage from having been driven hard
over speedbumps asscockig speedbumps
other men drove her for free
and now the preacher tells you
that she is really good as new
so “man up!”
and buy the gas-guzzling broke-down money pit!
which other men drove for free
hen it was younger hotter tighter
and fifty pounds lighter!

buy it!

the preacher commands you to say “i do.”
as ben beranke slips fiat dollars into the preacher’s pocket
knowingly winking at your wife-to-be
who was buttcocked and desouled
in a secretly-taped butthexting session
by neocon heroic butthexter sodomite
tucker max rhymes iwth godlman sa
lzozlzzlzzozo

he got her ass, and soon,
so very soon, while the wedding cake is yet moist
she will seize your assets and children
and hand them
over to the buttehxting corporate state church cartel
lzoozozozzoz

such is the way
of modern marriage

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 16
Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 14:56

lozozzoz i made da poem btter which i penned in da churdches pew

hey heartsitsez!! dis morning i went to church and wortee a poem soem poetry dedicated to jeststh and moses and aoslsomon and god! lzozlzzo

Today’s “Church”
is little more
than a front
for the banking cartel’s divorce and child-support industry
today’s church
is like a used car lot
where the pastors and preachers
try to get you to buy
a cum-guzzling, beatup old woman
with dents and dings from lotsa cockas
lzolzoozozzoz
with suspension damage from having been driven hard
over speedbumps asscockig speedbumps
driven hard hard hradrr lzozlz yah faster harder! he ssveemed! lzozlzlzo

other men drove her for free
and now the preacher tells you
that she is really good as new
so “man up!” the lordeth commandeth! zlzolzoz
and buy the gas-guzzling broke-down money pit!
which other men drove for free
hen it was younger hotter tighter
and fifty pounds lighter!
for free before the rust ate it out
alongside the tongues of many menz
who deluged her in buckets
of foamy slaty cum zlzllzolzo

buy it! da preacher commandeth
from teh pulpit! lzozozol

no pimp would ever charge ye
for past use of a puusy
but dat is what the beranke corporate-church-state
dost to thou via alimonies
and child support
which yuor ex will use
to fund future assocking sessions with other men
da central bankers and your preacher
exalt in humiliation
abortion and assocking aare not enough
but they must make good men
pay for it
and den do dey clap witheir stanaic liteles hands
and counte their fiat dolarz
and say “god is good yah god is good” lzozozlzo

the preacher commands you to say “i do.”
as ben beranke slips fiat dollars into the preacher’s pocket
knowingly winking at your wife-to-be
who was buttcocked and desouled
in a secretly-taped butthexting session
by neocon heroic butthexter sodomite
tucker max rhymes iwth godlman sax
lzozlzzlzzozo

he got her ass, and soon,
so very soon, while the wedding cake is yet moist
as mosist as her pususy was for all da assockers
dat got her beforre you
she will seize your assets and children
and hand them
over to the buttehxting corporate state church cartel
lzoozozozzoz

such is the way
of modern marriage
in da buttehxt matrix

i can show you the door
neo
but you will have to walk through it
without dripping on all da lostass cocatsskskas
in her fitrue wives bbuthozlzozlzozlzozl
zlzozlzlzoz

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 18
Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 15:19

@ walking in hell2 -

Yup. Today, just about any wife will defy her husband and work to destroy everything he does in the name of God. And with help by the government, she doesn’t have to work very hard. She demands to be the center of attention and puts herself above her husband and God. And the churches promote this idea by pedestalizing women in the church when they should be condemning them at all opportunities. The institution of marriage is a primary mechanism of how the government has violated separation of church and state and corrupted the church.

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 15:25

@ GR8B4M -

You forgot “tell men they need to man up”.

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Masculist Man July 15, 2012 at 15:33

gbfm, type in English it is very confusing with llllazzzzp all over the place.

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Country Lawyer July 15, 2012 at 15:38

The reason is quite simple:

Almost everyone that goes to church doesn’t live as if their soul is in jeopardy by participating in sin.

And so men, and the young that have any self awareness, understand that the actions of the people in church speak clearly that none of them believe anything they’re teaching.

“Abstain from all appearance of evil.” 1 Thessalonians, 5:22.

How much worse is it when they don’t “abstain from evil” at all?

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 15:40

@ zorro -

“Our churches will soon become branch offices of the N.O.W.”

I thought they already are.

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piercedhead July 15, 2012 at 15:58

The clergy and academia are great examples of what happens when institutions that were once closed to women are then opened to them: it isn’t long before they become women’s spaces.

Both have seen men exit as more and more women enter, flattery of the female becomes compulsory, hostility to men becomes embedded, and all reference to external rules and accountability are abandoned.

Universities have become the new convents of the past, where un-marriageable, disagreeable women live out their barren lives, ostensibly serving the herd. The churches have become shadows of their former selves, actively chasing men off. Who knows how much longer they can last.

The real excitement is reserved for the work-place though. We can get by without the churches, and the universities have never had a monopoly on originality, learning and inventiveness (they have often been obstructions to them), but should commerce become a woman’s space, we are all affected.

It is my belief that it is inevitable – that things will get much worse before they get better. There is absolutely nothing standing between full feminization of commerce but those in politics who have already proved themselves to be agents of feminism. As happened in the Soviet Union when ideology trumped personal freedom in commercial matters, the economy will be on life support for decades while those one man enterprises that grew up out of necessity will increasingly become a larger and larger factor in keeping everyone alive (and so be tolerated).

All men would do well to start learning how to better look after themselves should the existing infrastructure start failing to provide – and whatever you do, allow no woman between yourself and your enterprise.

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 16:00

“Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 15:19 writes:

Yup. Today, just about any wife will defy her husband and work to destroy everything he does in the name of God. And with help by the government, she doesn’t have to work very hard. She demands to be the center of attention and puts herself above her husband and God. And the churches promote this idea by pedestalizing women in the church when they should be condemning them at all opportunities. The institution of marriage is a primary mechanism of how the government has violated separation of church and state and corrupted the church.”

YES! EXACTLY!

what the churches no longer teach is the fundamental law that jesus came to fulfill–from the KJVB GENESIS:

“16 Unto the woman he said,

I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;
in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
and he shall rule over thee.”

by eliminating MOSES and GENESIS from the CHURCH, the CHURCH is now serving SATAN, as the bankers enslave men to gina tingles and butt tingles while deconstructing and denying God.

women are taught to first and foremost serve the corporate-state’s bottom, line after their own bottoms are lined with semen, as they are methodically desouled in neocon asscocking sessions which are really just typical preemptive neocon wars waged against both the soul and the butthole.

neocons profit via debasement and debauchery of both the currency and the culture. in the same way they profit by turning education and healthcare into debt-creating vehicles, they also profit by transforming marriage into a debt-and-debauchery-creating system.

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Josh the Aspie July 15, 2012 at 16:03

@Darryl X

I’m wondering how much shopping around for different Churches you’ve done.

I’d personally contend that the bible-studies are actually the most important bit for quickly assessing a church. If you’re not actually studying a bible, but some other book, it probably points to a sickness in the church.

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Russ July 15, 2012 at 16:03

Charles Walbridge July 15, 2012 at 10:58

There’s and interesting book “The Church Impotent,” by Leon Podles (I think). It documents the feminization of Western Christianity that has been going on for the last 800 years. Eastern Orthodox churches don’t seem to have this problem.

Orthodoxy is probably the best way out of the crisis the West is in today. However, as I understand it, the Eastern Rites don’t work in the West. Does anybody know anything about that topic? I’d love to be enlightened.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5
zed July 15, 2012 at 16:10

@ Masculist Man,

Think of GBFM as the James Joyce of the MM. His obscure method of presentation makes him a harder target to hit. The professional manginas do not have enough brain power to figure out what GBFM is saying, which makes it easier to slide through a subversive message.

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Rebel July 15, 2012 at 16:13

Religions are at the origin of every civilization of the past.
Wherever a sufficient number of humans gathered, there emerged powerful men. And to counterbalance the hard rule of kings, another powerful caste emerged: the soft power of priests.
But the ruling classes were always united and worked together as the carrot and the stick.

Today, as states are enslaving mankind again, the churches join them and… old history repeats itself. As has always happened, it is men who have to support the brunt of the hardships: women being docile by nature. And with the collaboration of women, both the states and the churches can enslave the productive half of the human species.

They do it through the irresistible appeal of… sex.
(also common throughout the animal kingdom)
That’s why the government AND the church support feminism. It’s the same old tribal combat that goes back many thousands of years ago.

Just like in the animal kingdom, the world of humans is ruled by a few dominant males, who, in return, get all the female attention.

This is what links us to animals: alpha males rule. Beta males are slaves.

I think that men going their own way will soon be under severe attack: either they get back into the herd, or…

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 16:15

lzoozlzzl yes zed lozlzzozooz

see i use words like buttehxt and buttehxting ad butthollio and talk like a fuckinlzozolg riatalin adderol addict doepefiend retasrdz

so da bankers and fmeinists go

“oh he is just like we raised him to be. he is ok.”

zopzpzz;zpzzp

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Days of Broken Arrows July 15, 2012 at 16:27

Actually, I have one other quibble with this over-the-top video presentation. He chastises men who “go download porn from the Internet.”

Everyone knows people now stream porn from the Internet. The dude is so 2001!

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John July 15, 2012 at 16:39

There is a misunderstanding in christianity about turning the other cheek here are explanations for it:

“Taken in their social context, such commands require neither action. “Resist not evil,” which precedes the “cheek” admonition, is a well-known Jewish proverb (Ps. 37:1, 8; Prov. 24:19) and actually means, do not compete with evildoers by trying to outdo them in terms of getting back at them. Three examples for the teaching follow: Turn the other cheek; if someone sues you for your cloak, also give them your tunic; if you are forced to go one mile, go two.

All three of these things refer to what amount to inconvenient, but nevertheless perfectly legal, impositions on the person. The “slap on the cheek” is a type of personal insult, so that the command to turn the other cheek is essentially a command not to start trading insults, but take the higher ground and turn away from the exchange. It is not a license to allow yourself to get beat up.

Many ancient societies (and we shall see below, certain modern social groups) engage in a process known as challenge-riposte. The scene of such processes is public venues in which two persons or groups have competing honor claims: “…the game of challenge-riposte is a central phenomenon, and one that must be played out in public.” [42] The purpose is for each party to try to undermine the honor, or social status, of the other in an exchange that “answers in equal measures or ups the ante (and thereby challenges in return).”

In the Gospels, Jesus “evidences considerable skill at riposte and thereby reveals himself to be an honorable and authoritative prophet.” Many of these challenges are clear, but some are so hidden to us that they need exposition.

This is proper in the public forum and a response to the honor challenge laid down by the Pharisees, who challenge Jesus on the behavior of his disciples. Jesus ups the ante by questioning their very knowledge of the Scriptures, a trait they most cherished.

The art of insult was highly valued in antiquity. Our modern “victim culture” encourages persons to find the art offensive, but before getting too judgmental, consider that in these honor challenges, the person who ended the game by throwing a punch was considered the big loser. Losing one’s temper and throwing a punch was as much an admission that one could not keep up the battle of wits and had to resort to violence. When Jesus runs from those who pick up stones to stone him, he is not the coward, but the winner taking his spoils.”

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John July 15, 2012 at 16:43

Matthew 12:5 “Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?”

Sorry this is meant to precede the 4th paragraph.

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AfOR July 15, 2012 at 16:49
Theo P. July 15, 2012 at 17:06

Did anybody else imagine him shouting that into a cave (or an empty church for that matter) and hearing his own words come back on him?

Who do you think you are?
You are not God!
You are just a man!
You are not an impressive man!
You are not a respectable man!
You are not a noble man!

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Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) July 15, 2012 at 17:07

loolzozo

jesus taught “turn the other cheek.”

todayz preachersz teach “spread dem cheeks!”
zlzozozozoz

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 17:08

@ Josh the Aspie -

I haven’t “shopped around for churches”. My faith is very secure. Always has been. Men don’t need churches for worship and fulfillment and a relationship with God anymore than a man needs a woman for worship and fulfullment and a relationship with God. Ideally, these things should help but they are not necessary. I consider my pursuit an expression of MGTOW. If I happen to encounter a congregation that welcomes me, I would not turn it away anymore than I would turn a woman away who welcomes me and wants to share my life as I promote the word of God. But my life does not revolve around either one.

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Ray July 15, 2012 at 17:24

Okay (IMO) here’s the bottom line on that, “Are any of those preachers in those audio tracks NOT from a Calvinistic denomination?” I’d bet not, although feminists love to visit all churches, synagogues, etc., and spread their domestic violence spiel.

Calvinistic denominations/churches are very legalistic in my experience so in large population centers like So. Cal. it’s a curiosity to find so many cops, judges, and legal professionals in Calvinistic churches (disproportionate to their numbers in the general population, IMO). There are books at Amazon on “churches that abuse spiritually.” Yes, out of context, unScriptural, male-bashing haranging is spiritual abuse, IMO.

I once attended a Calvinistic “men’s group” where the speaker was all over men’s responsibilities, blah, blah, blah. When he finished I confronted him and told him that the divorce rate in evangelical churches was comparable to the rest of society, and that it is evangelical women who are filing the vast majority of those divorces, and that if a man admitted to following his admonitions to assert his “headship” over his household he would be charged with domestic violence when his wife filed divorce. He didn’t know that, and appeared at a loss for something to say, but one other in the leadership started in about, “I must have a problem with submission to ‘authority,’” as a means of deflecting the conversation. That’s also known as an ad hominem attack. Attacking the speaker as a way of deflecting the conversation away from the real issue.

On another occasion, a woman from social services came to talk about men who were in prison and said that they needed to “step up to the plate and take responsibility for fathering their children.” Once again, I confronted the pastor and went into detail about how men are driven from their kids lives, then hatefully vilified by our misandrist government for being absent. Yep, you guessed it, it was like being in the Twilight Zone trying to get these legalistic Calvinist pastors to really understand the incredibly strong feminist undertow in society that’s destroying men’s lives, AND HOW LEGALISTIC, CALVINISTIC CHURCHES FACILITATE THAT UNDERTOW.

Maybe someday, I’ll try (with God’s help) to do a video and at least lay out some of the “stumbling blocks” that Calvinistic churches keep throwing in the paths of Christian men.

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 17:27

@ Josh the Aspie -

Oh, I forgot to mention that even though I identify myself as a Christian, I do not pursue a relationship with God at the exclusion of others who worship as Muslims or Jews or Mormons. Much my attempt to fit into a congregation or church somewhere is very much dependent upon geographic location for sure. In some respects, the US is very diverse, but that diversity is mitigated by a very feminist culture.

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DCM July 15, 2012 at 17:38

I’m not religious and haven’t been since I was about 12, so all I know is what I hear and see in media.
I am tired of the incessant attacks on Christianity, however.
Apparently one of the worst attacks is in the attitudes of ministers and females.

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The Whammer July 15, 2012 at 17:41

“I went to church when I was a kid with my mom, but I stopped going when I became an adult”

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

1 Corinthians 13:11

I guess that you just grew up.

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Josh the Aspie July 15, 2012 at 17:53

@Darryl X

I’m glad to hear that you are secure in your proclamation of faith.

It seems that you are living according to Hebrews 10:23: ” Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.”

But I am curious as to your take on Hebrews 10:24-25:

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another —and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

In my understanding it is critical that we continue to congregate with fellow believers in Christ, so that we can encourage them to the faith, and they can likewise encourage us. That said, we are warned about chasing after churches that are pleasing to our ear.

2 Timothy 2-5:

Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Rather, in my understanding we should let the scripture guide us, and find a church that is in line with the scriptures.

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Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 18:11

Excellen post, Josh the Aspie July 15, 2012 at 17:53

Yes, reconciling the need to congregate and promote the word of God that way and protecting oneself from bad associations which may cripple that ability is hard. It’s a life-long challenge. When trying to spread the word of God to others, I often find myself in places and situations where I could be easily corrupted. It’s not easy. I am a man after all. So I do have to be careful. But where there is great risk, there is great reward too. And I am by no means a Biblical scholar and I have a very abstract mind and quoting scripture or even interpreting it has never been a strong point which is why I constantly have to review the Bible and inquire of elders. And I often refer people with questions about problems they are having and their relationship to God to others far more qualified than I am. I am no church elder. But a definite sticking point when it comes to understanding those problems and my encouragement of people to pursue a stronger relationship with God has been feminism. And feminism in the church particularly. Trying to encourage such a pursuit and referring others to the church seems hypocritical when the church embraces feminism.

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El Bastardo July 15, 2012 at 18:22

@russ

I lived in Eastern Europe for a year!
To answer this:
Charles Walbridge July 15, 2012 at 10:58

There’s and interesting book “The Church Impotent,” by Leon Podles (I think). It documents the feminization of Western Christianity that has been going on for the last 800 years. Eastern Orthodox churches don’t seem to have this problem.

Orthodoxy is probably the best way out of the crisis the West is in today. However, as I understand it, the Eastern Rites don’t work in the West. Does anybody know anything about that topic? I’d love to be enlightened.

You have to understand the movie My big fat greek wedding, and how feminism is global, not local! No country is devoid of it’s influence! It speaks to a woman’s darkest, and easiest part, of her soul. Her base desires get met, and she does not have to do much of anything for it!

My friend told me his wife’s father was demanding he pay all of the 50,000 (in dollars worth) he had saved of the local currency on “his daughter’s traditional wedding day.” He said it was so 500 people he does not know, will never know, could come and eat his food and drink his booze! Then they would leave. He said to his in law the money was for a house, his in laws told him he could save again for a house, after he paid for their daughter’s wedding. His wife never stood up to them!

Just because women are not touched by feminist schools directly, feminists still go to programs that ship them overseas to “save poor girls who can’t get a proper education” in other words indoctrinated in feminism! One need only read about how the World Health Orginization, and the UN were only releasing the titles to the new homes being built in the wife’s name after the earthquake in Haiti. So they could “empower them over their husbands!” It was described as a “unique opportunity to empower women where they had no power before!” Like a matriarchial society did not give them enough power, a NWO front of the UN had to give them more after a terrible disaster. That’s rad feminists for ya!

You need to understand that there is really no place you can go to get a woman who has not been ramrodded with feminist thinking! NO WHERE! My wife is from a third world country, and she has gotten some of it. They have been everywhere, you think the British schooling system that these places use is devoid of feminist thought?

LOL You’re all silly! LOL

Eastern Europe was dominated by Russia for decades! The people who invented feminist socialist policies! In some of these places the women is trapping you for kids. Think about it! I know, I have been there, married foreign, but my wife bought me coffee on our first date, and passed my tests! I knew what to look for, don’t think they won’t try something!

There is no option, you got to screen every woman you meet. Or you just PUA/MGTOW and never look back. These are your options, add in American Common Laws and you are screwed no matter what you do to serial monogamy of only three month partnerships, and a lot of drama!

I wish I had better news.

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The Whammer July 15, 2012 at 18:39

Why did they do that? So that property stays within the church?

Yes, and so that the church didn’t have to pay for the upkeep of the wife and kids when the priest died. If the priest or bishop was rich and some of them were then the property would go to the church when he died and not his family. How do you think the Catholic church became so prosperous, or even the monarch who was head of the Anglican church where tithes were paid and a portion went to the crown. The reason that the founders of the US had that freedom of religion in the Bill of Rights was that it was really a freedom from religion and paying of tithes to the Anglican church (the crown really). The name was even changed to Episcopal after US independence and there was no longer a king to pay the tithes to and they were making sure there never would be again by the 1st amendment which prohibited a State religion.

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Tom936 July 15, 2012 at 18:46

AfOR July 15, 2012 at 10:58
Sorry, xtainity was always a crock of shit, and I have seen inside it deeper than most .

I personally agree about Christianty but I keep it to myself because it’s divisive. There’s no need for the MRM Atheists and the MRM Christians to fight with each other. In the larger view, we’re on the same side.

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Tom936 July 15, 2012 at 19:01

Suz July 15, 2012 at 12:06
In related news, a recent athiest conference was noted for the pronounced decline of female attendees. Sounds like fodder for another article.

Interesting. Not so long ago, we Atheists were almost all men – more than 90%. Some prominent Atheists used to publicly lament that fact. They expressed complete bafflement as to why women weren’t attracted to Atheism, like they expected women to be drawn to its logic just like men.

Then Atheism got to be – not chic, but no longer unchic – and women immediately staked their flag on it, claiming it in the name of the Sisterhood.

Now it’s mostly men again? Interesting.

And being based in logic, atheism doesn t give pussy passes.
(Pardon my French.)

It’d be nice if it were true. The Rebecca Watson (Elevator Skepchick) thing suggests otherwise. And there’s Tasleema Nasrin, and there are other women that too many Atheists are suckers for.

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Josh the Aspie July 15, 2012 at 19:03

@Darryl X,

I am not nearly the Bible scholar I should be, but I do study the bible, and discuss it with other Christians, in and outside of church settings.

My thoughts on looking for a church are not the idea of trying to find a Church that has good cookies and coffee, or that has good music, but rather one where you think the Elders and Priest/Pastor/etc actually go to the Bible, and are faithful to it’s words, rather than to some political movement in the world like Feminism.

If you can find such a place, you can be more confident in the advice given by the elders, and the pastor. You can also be more confident in suggesting that people talk to those elders, or that pastor. By finding a Church that doesn’t encourage “Evangelical American Princess” (EAP) syndrome, you may well fill your own spiritual and study needs better.

This may require changing denominations. However, in my experience the Denomination matters far less than how often they crack the bible open, and how wide a range of verses the Church pays attention to.

And if you ever do start tithing again, your money would be much better spent supporting such a church, than the kind you seem to have been attending.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
Franklin July 15, 2012 at 19:13

@Art Vandelay

“Maybe you should rephrase the question, “Why are young Christian men not going to church”. I’m an atheist, what would I do in a church?”

A good religion is the only viable alternative to liberal feminism. I don’t believe in a supernatural god, but I go to Eastern Orthodox church every Sunday as an escape from the liberal feminist world.

“I wonder what the ratio is like in Mosques in Western countries.”

Western women are converting to Islam faster than Western men are.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343954/100-000-Islam-converts-living-UK-White-women-keen-embrace-Muslim-faith.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1227/p01s04-woeu.html

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Russ July 15, 2012 at 19:14

@El Bastardo,

I think you misunderstood my question.

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Eric July 15, 2012 at 19:18

GB4M:
‘Modern churches do not exalt puritanism, they debase and debauch it via feminism.’

That’s largely true. Most of the original puritans believed that they were liberating women from the convents and nunneries so that they could find fulfillment as wives and mothers. As an unintended side-effect though, they destroyed Marian traditions in Christianity that left women with out a spiritual bench-mark. Puritan pedestalization of women grew out of that lack; and feminism capitalized on it.

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David G July 15, 2012 at 19:46

Speaking of religion, I grew up in a Christian household but once I became a teenager I found that Bhuddism intellectually made more sense.

It is my opinion that we MGTOW /Red-pill-takers seem to be very much on the Bhuddist path.

From http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm

“To many, Buddhism goes beyond religion and is more of a philosophy or ‘way of life’. It is a philosophy because philosophy ‘means love of wisdom’ and the Buddhist path can be summed up as:
(1) to lead a moral life,
(2) to be mindful and aware of thoughts and actions, and
(3) to develop wisdom and understanding.

Buddhist teachings can be understood and tested by anyone. Buddhism teaches that the solutions to our problems are within ourselves not outside. The Buddha asked all his followers not to take his word as true, but rather to test the teachings for themselves. ln this way, each person decides for themselves and takes responsibility for their own actions and understanding. This makes Buddhism less of a fixed package of beliefs which is to be accepted in its entirety, and more of a teaching which each person learns and uses in their own way.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5
Eric July 15, 2012 at 19:52

Anon70:
‘Also he assumes that women are saints…who do not know how they hooked up with the Bad Boys they prefer.’

Which, taken to its logical conclusions, would be telling men that ‘manning-up’ and ‘pedestalization’ doesn’t really accomplish anything.

I guess the idea here is that when Ms. Princess betrays you and runs off with a thug; a least that somehow qualifies you as a martyr if you at least tried to make her happy first.

And these guys wonder why we think they’re masochists?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Eric July 15, 2012 at 20:05

Tom936:
I always advise atheist people to read some the Ante-Nicene church fathers like Clement, Origen, Barnabas, and Ignatius if they want to know what Christianity really is supposed to look like. You get a whole different take on it; any one of those guys would puke if they saw what clods like Driscoll were doing.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
DelTaco July 15, 2012 at 20:07

Mr Price, you answered it quite well. Men aren’t going to church because they arent’ welcome. If the Church(es) ever want to ask themselves why they don’t welcome men, and if they really wanted to know, then there could be a dialogue. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Darryl X July 15, 2012 at 20:14

@ Eric re Eric July 15, 2012 at 19:18

Very interesting.

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Eric July 15, 2012 at 20:16

Just as a side note, the moron Futrelle found the quote of his fellow-moron AfoR above; and highlighted it as representative of the MRM position on Christianity. Ignoring, of course, AfoR’s 30-or-so downvotes.

Make of it what you will.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3
freebird July 15, 2012 at 20:18

“…reveals that he volunteers lots of time for the Wounded Warrior Project and often goes to the VA hospital to visit and encourage the guys coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan with parts missing.

One of the other students asked him what kind of stuff they do, and his *FIRST* answer was “The biggest thing we do is to help the guys open a bank account that is in their name only.” When asked why by the same student, he said “Well, when these guys come back injured they get a huge chunk of tax free money. I got $125K for my leg. Anyway, over HALF these guys wives empty the account and file for divorce unless we help them to put it in a secure account.”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 1
Ted July 15, 2012 at 21:30

“Captain Ahab: Speak not to me of blasphemy, man; I’d strike the sun if it insulted me. Look ye, Starbuck, all visible objects are but as pasteboard masks. Some inscrutable yet reasoning thing puts forth the molding of their features. The white whale tasks me; he heaps me. Yet he is but a mask. ‘Tis the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate; the malignant thing that has plagued mankind since time began; the thing that maws and mutilates our race, not killing us outright but letting us live on, with half a heart and half a lung.”

Captain Ahab has it. The only thing I doubt is “reasoning.” That’s too much of an anthropocentrism.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Ted July 15, 2012 at 21:40

“atheism doesn t give pussy passes.
” (Pardon my French.)

“It’d be nice if it were true. The Rebecca Watson (Elevator Skepchick) thing suggests otherwise”

Rebecca Watson again. I’m not an atheist, nor any other sort of theist for that matter, and I have exactly zero interest in who attends their conferences, or that they even have conferences at all. Yet this mildly repellent Watson woman keeps coming up on my screen all the time. Is it some sort of egoless stalking? I’m beginning to understand what the ladies mean by “creepy”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
Ted July 15, 2012 at 22:20

@Eric July 15, 2012 at 20:16

“Just as a side note, the moron Futrelle found the quote of his fellow-moron AfoR above; and highlighted it as representative of the MRM position on Christianity. Ignoring, of course, AfoR’s 30-or-so downvotes.”

AfOR’s mention of aliens seems to have stirred them all up. I think he’s tapped into a hitherto unsuspected stratum of feminist consciousness. Or unconsciousness. Or whatever it is they have over there.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
bw July 15, 2012 at 22:49

I’m an atheist, what would I do in a church?

Oh, you have your High Priests and your churches. You are simply too intellectually and pshychologically dishonest to admit to them. You are loathe to admit it. Do you really believe that others can’t see them?

Why are the fems “God’s Daughters” and the males not automatically “God’s Sons” as well?
Most men “are called” to preach based solely on an ego power trip. It’s a business. The use of emotion and yelling – psychology – with an attempt at intimidation is a quick tell.
“My sheep hear my voice…”
And it’s never yelling…It needn’t.

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walking in hell2 July 15, 2012 at 22:53

@brian
“OT: Women’s expectations from a date today.

http://yahoo.match.com/cp.aspx?cpp=/cppp/yahoo/article.html&articleid=9125&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=1362560

On these dating articles, I noticed they usually don’t allow comments. That is because the comments from the men are usually so negative.

There is always that hidden assumption in these dating articles: that most men actually want to find an American women and that American women have positive value.

There are still a few idiots out there who believe that a piece of shit American woman is the answer to their prayers, but I think more young men are wising up.

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walking in hell2 July 15, 2012 at 23:09

“OT: Women’s expectations from a date today.

http://yahoo.match.com/cp.aspx?cpp=/cppp/yahoo/article.html&articleid=9125&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=1362560”

There is also an assumption that men want to “score” at the end of the date. Can you imagine how degrading that is? That some men actually pay money through a date and plot their way into an American girl’s pants.

American women are so grotesque inside and out, I would liken sex with an American woman to something like bestiality: something unholy and so horrible as to be avoided, as it may damage one’s psyche for life.

With pictures of beautiful Latinas, Asian women, and Eastern European Women, don’t these people know what kind of competition American women are up against? American women are the very bottom of the barrel; in fact they are not even in the “human” barrel.

I would recommend to all American men, that the way to spend Friday and Saturday night is by researching different countries to expat to. Then two to three times per year, visit these countries with the money you saved by not dating “beasts.”

One has to accept the fact that by virtue of living in America, women and children are repugnant and morally wrong.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 4
codebuster July 15, 2012 at 23:37

Speaking of religion, I grew up in a Christian household but once I became a teenager I found that Bhuddism intellectually made more sense… It is my opinion that we MGTOW /Red-pill-takers seem to be very much on the Bhuddist path.

Most religions are an attempt to start out on some kind of scientific footing in the sense that they believe that this amazing, incomprehensible existence must have an explanation of some sort. But their rationale begins to break down when they try to “explain” the unexplainable with the inexplicable. For example, if god created everything, this explains nothing, because there is no attempt to comprehend the phenomenological issues that might account for god’s existence (more simplistically – who or what created god?).

In this regard, Buddhism is much more sophisticated than Christianity, and is about as close to scientific as you can expect a religion to be.

Buddhism understands the nature of holism more than Christianity does. For example, culture is a whole and our existence in it can only be understood holistically. And typically, it is in the understanding of wholes that most religions fall apart. Like in this diatribe by Pastor Mark Driscoll. It’s all well and good to shame men if that’s what he believes, but in failing to include women within that shaming is the height of naivete, and strikes at the very heart of what is wrong with Christianity.

Cultures are wholes. This means that women are an integral part of that. Women as the primary nurturers of children account for the initial conditions that first start to wire up the child’s brain. Women are the primary abusers of children. Children first learn violence from their primary nurturer. And children become adults who take their good learnin’ first from their moms and later from their dads into their adult lives. By now most of us know about the relationship between single motherhood and crime.

Buddhism gets an important aspect of this thing about wholes (holism). There was a time that Christianity might have alluded to the importance of culture and wholes, and they had some vague comprehension of wholes in mind, but not in any explicated form like buddhism does. It is certainly not evident in the evangelistic, one-sided rant by Pastor Mark Driscoll. It is the absolute height of naivete to presume all this ugliness in men without factoring in the equivalent rancid ugliness in women. This sort of ignorant, implicitly pussy-worshipping rant disqualifies Christianity.

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Twenty July 15, 2012 at 23:42

Rarely have I taken such pleasure in turning off a YouTube video.

Rant all you want, crazypants — I ain’t listening. God did not create men to serve women. Suck it.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 1
walking in hell2 July 16, 2012 at 00:06

Introducing the “Christian” organization called “Hookers for Jesus.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cczEhPQgAJA&feature=related

Notice how the “pimps” are the sole reason that these women became hookers and stayed hookers for so long.

What is really awful in this video is that men actually paid money to have sex with some of these awful women. Only in America would men be put in such a desperate position as to have to pay such low quality women for sex. In other countries these women would never get sex unless THEY paid for it.

I don’t think most American men really understand how bad of a life they really have.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Eric July 16, 2012 at 00:22

Ted:
I checked his comment thread and the queen bees do seem to be buzzing a lot more than usual. Even the Chief Manboob broke in to huff indignantly:

‘It didn’t have 30 downvotes when I posted this!’ Ooo! Those men!

I’m sure you didn’t notice the purple shading, David. LOL

Anyway, now his poor groupies are even more confused that two Spearhead commenters actually disagree with each other. This should keep them busy all night trying to sort it all out…

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 00:32

Codebuster:
Before Christianity became an ‘official’ religion, many of its earliest practioners taught a lot about cultures and wholes. They taught, for example, that Christianity superceded the laws and exclusiveness of the Old Testament; and the Hellenistic universalism of thinkers like Plato were strong in their writings.

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 00:36

WalkinginHell:
The feminised churches are going to be responsible for converting North America to Islam faster than anything the Imams and Aytollahs can come up with. LOL

‘Hookers for Jesus’ ROFL ‘Oh it’s all the evil pimps’ fault!’ What’s next? An Evangelical Slutwalk?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
migu July 16, 2012 at 00:57

The Bible is pretty clear, if you read it yourself.
If you really want a church to attend, then go Catholic or orthodox, on a Wednesday.

Read the Bible yourself. Then go read Tao, then learn the ninefold path, and then read vedic Scripture.

Better yet, read them simultaneously. Why? Because you will find they are allthe same books, and you will find that it was later men who.cherry picked them.

Oh and the best proof of God is the ontological proof. Seems that is also the best proof for the big bang.

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walking in hell2 July 16, 2012 at 01:05

@Eric

I agree. The Christian churches have no shame. Islam is a much better alternative for most men. At least there is some kind of brotherhood.

Islam also deals with other issues such as honest money, which now in America, is a big problem.

I am a Christian and I am tempted to convert to Islam.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 15
universe July 16, 2012 at 01:06

Missed another church session yesterday morn. Wasn’t ready to be part of the congregation. And this is a partial mandate of the sect – being in the company of the similarly minded in the spirit of what Yeshu left for us to emulate.
In whatever branch outlet of the sect visited I usually go to hear the word – which still applies to humans today as when it was first spoken. The nature of people haven’t changed much over the years but overall culture has in terms of conditioning through rapid implemental advances which eventually correlate to social re-definements.

A good preacher is aware of how to combine the messages of antiquity into the relevancy of the moment. Yet many a preacher are void in the level of expertise found in several participants of this and other noteworthy men’s sites. The current social has not been adequately absorbed by the theological.

Leading ‘men of God’ exhibit total absence toward ameliorating the restrictive conditions befallen upon the one charged with being the household head. It’s like, ‘Tough it out guys, it’s you and God alone’ – the intended heirarchical way it has proven to be (Creator, Spirit, Yeshu, man, then woman, child).
Forget, “Rendering unto Ceasar” for a moment. Duty calls toward the many casualties of the social manipulators. Either recognize what’s going on or watch the decline in your revenues.

A lot of sermon deliverers have overlooked the all-too-common worldly familial social changes that lap over to members of the congregation. ‘If youze guys were only like real men this wouldn’t happen’. In some regard, perhaps. But there’s more to it than that. Liberalizing the church is but one factor among many.
Sorry Reverend friend but you’re somewhat out of the loop. A lot of men are bound by the punitive socio-legal determinants made outside the church that you maintain the flock must adhere to. The worldly “manning-up” to a deviation from the prescribed order that you signed up for presents bit of a disconnect.
Now I wonder if you’re able to lead me through the thickets. Have my doubts. Will keep looking for replacements to leaders touting the man-up theory.

Readers of men’s blogs with faith/discipline principles have stories of church inconsistencies for sure. Here is one in particular: one Sunday a “wholeness” theme was part of the day’s lecture. Maintaining wholeness in one sense was for men to abstain from looking at women as lust objects, either in real time or through visiting on-line porn. That women are daughters of the Creator.
Well, indeed women today truly are remnants of God’s daughters. But there was no mention or condemnation of the fact that plenty of women are choosing to be willing participants as lust objects in porn or in real time.
Nor were many people, it appears, beside myself, aware that many females of varying ages were cavorting about in church at that moment in very tight clothing, low cut blouses and other attire stressing attention to the female form. Lust objects, disrespectful to the knowledge of one aspect of a man’s nature – visually aware. More disconnect.
(I can almost hear the pickles in the peanut gallery telling men to control the direction of their eyes. The issue is control, yes, but since attention whoring usually recieves an audience it’s the girls too who need to control themselves).
I mentioned this to a friend and he said, “Say something then”. Leaving a pointed note to the head pastor was all to be mustered as I was really fuming at the framing of this particular narrowly presented brand of “wholeness”.

Fear of and failure to consider the whole picture in and outside the church will lead some or many astray from it. The good boys and girls, raised in the ways of traditional church past, will have to find better ways than blame the man to maintain the old order or risk voluntary alienation from those whom they wish to serve or admonish.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
migu July 16, 2012 at 01:10

Anyway, the church is wherever two or more People congregate to discuss God, or the lack thereof. The temple is wherever one is.

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universe July 16, 2012 at 01:19

“I am a Christian and I am tempted to convert to Islam.”
– Convert if you have to but do come back and tell us all about the white-knightery that goes on inside their enclave.
If you believe it doesn’t exist there perhaps you’re being drawn in by the ideology rather than the practicality.
Burkhas aren’t only restricted to attire over in the alleged greener pasture.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Eric July 16, 2012 at 01:45

Universe:
Good insights. A huge part of religion goes along with the concept of civilization, which is both religions and civilizations are led by men.

One the forgetten aspects of both is that certain characteristics of both genders, which are biologically necessary, are kept in check by the boundaries of civilization. When those boundaries break down and the gender-polarity is broken with them, those forces are unleashed. This is a lot what has to do with the idea of ‘original sin.’

It is also what happens when feminists talk about ‘liberation’. What they really mean is liberating female nature from the constraints of civilization. The polarity, in a sense, is reversed in these broken systems so that instincts that enabled women to nurture and provide for the young are warped into extreme narcissicism to the point of near sociopathic amorality. The same dynamic BTW can happen to cultures that break to the masculine (e.g. Nazis and Taliban).

There’s no actual liberation at all in what either the Radfems or White Knights preach about. If these preachers were on the job, they would be trying to civilize women again.

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migu July 16, 2012 at 02:00

I was taught a few things by a sunni Imam in Iraq. He was one of our interpreters.

The ideas are essentially the same. Ishmael plays the role of Israel (Jacob) IIRC. Jesus was born of a virgin but was a prophet, and his life was exposing hypocrites. The revelation is prominent.

Supposedly Jews, Hindus, and Christians are people of the book, so they are to be respected even if they fail to convert.

Women are pure, Shari’a protects their purity and keeps the serpent from maligning them. Their purity is why Satan so often uses them to promote evil (slap in the face of Allah)

Meh? Its been seven years. I might have that all backwards.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
AfOR July 16, 2012 at 02:17


@Ted July 15, 2012 at 22:20

@Eric July 15, 2012 at 20:16

“Just as a side note, the moron Futrelle found the quote of his fellow-moron AfoR above; and highlighted it as representative of the MRM position on Christianity. Ignoring, of course, AfoR’s 30-or-so downvotes.”

AfOR’s mention of aliens seems to have stirred them all up. I think he’s tapped into a hitherto unsuspected stratum of feminist consciousness. Or unconsciousness. Or whatever it is they have over there.

That’s because it’s childishly easy to press buttons, and pressing buttons for shits and giggles is all you can do when a site like the spearhead has been subverted by the cadre, who shall remain nameless, because frankly it was getting too dangerous for their beliefs.

I could now make a post saying nothing more than “Thanks for the work you put in this site Bill” and get downvotes, it’s become a cliquey personality cult and will only get worse unless Bill institutes a slashdot style like/dislike OR comment, friend or foe, limited karma to burn.

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Just1X July 16, 2012 at 02:25

(I originally added this to a Dalrock thread, it links to a UK religion-morality type blog)

Gimme Five! I’m going to church because of women bishops
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/gimme-five-im-going-to-church-because.html

The whole thread is of interest, but one commenter referred to research that you might be interested in.

Commenter Flossie 9:08 makes the following comment
“Back to the specific issue of young people, some time ago former Anglican priest Robbie Low wrote a very interesting article on a Swiss study to determine whether a person’s religion carried through to the next generation and, if so, what, if any, were the critical factors. The main factor seems to be the religious practice of the father. He concludes by saying:
‘In short if a father does not go to church, no matter how faithful his wife’s devotions, only one child in 50 will become a regular worshipper. If a father does go regularly, regardless of the practice of the mother, between two-thirds and three-quarters of their children will become churchgoers. If a father goes but irregularly to church, regardless of his wife’s devotion, between a half and two-thirds of their offspring will find themselves coming to church regularly or occasionally. A non-practising mother (with a regular father) will see a minimum of two thirds of her children ending up at church. A non-practising father (faithful mother) will see two-thirds of his children never darken the church door. If his wife is similarly negligent that figure will rise to 80 per cent!’
‘The Truth about Men’ can be read here: http://trushare.com/83APR02/AP02LOW.htm

Men do not like a feminized church. Men leave, children will not stay.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
Just1X July 16, 2012 at 02:28

So putting your post together with the research linked to in my previous comment. The current church is only going to profit from this generation, they are killing the church attendance in the next generation.

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Lavazza July 16, 2012 at 02:47

David G: My problem with buddhism is that it didn’t make it in India, apparently through its philosophers losing to Adi Shankaracharya in debates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

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DCM July 16, 2012 at 02:51

“Eric July 15, 2012 at 20:05

Tom936:
I always advise atheist people to read some the Ante-Nicene church fathers like Clement, Origen, Barnabas, and Ignatius if they want to know what Christianity really is supposed to look like. You get a whole different take on it; any one of those guys would puke if they saw what clods like Driscoll were doing.”

Don’t make the rash assumption that we haven’t studied religion and its development. I spent a good part of my early and mid teens doing just that.

I haven’t said that religious people ought to read such and such and they’d change. Must you guys be antagonistic and critical?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7
Opus July 16, 2012 at 03:04

Our local church was built, in the Wren style, in the late seventeenth century – one of the buildings the Luftwaffe missed, when it mistook the hospital for an industrial complex – missed my apartment by only feet – and the oldest permanent structure in the ‘new’ town where I live. A few Saturdays ago on my perambulations I slipped in, and sat-down at the back. The stained-glass window behind the Altar showed two or three women around an empty tomb. ‘He is risen’. To my right I could vaguely overhear a couple of elderly women – church-warden types – discussing their grandchildren. It was so peaceful. Almost made me wish I were a believer.

I can’t imagine that it is a hot-bed of Misandry, but then I am unlikely ever to know. The Vicar is, I understand, a man.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
empathologicalism July 16, 2012 at 04:59

You mention the sky high divorce rate in evangelical church, I concur, and concur with your take on a major cause of it. Recently Gless Stanton has been blathering that this church divorce issue is not big, and that the REAL REALLY believers (as evidenced by a task list he makes) have a much lower divorce rate.
The task list fits the men who will willingly sit under this BS and emote appropriately w/ frequent weepy mea culpa to the wife. But I still reject Stanton’s claim that the rate is so much lower among serious believers or whatever term you choose.
These lectures are planned obsolescence for marriages by forecasting and magnifying perceived male failure.
Shame the preachers who do this for the female pats on the back, and the women who will drag their hapless men in for a dose.

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Art Vandelay July 16, 2012 at 04:59

Oh, you have your High Priests and your churches. You are simply too intellectually and pshychologically dishonest to admit to them. You are loathe to admit it. Do you really believe that others can’t see them?

You are making quite the leap of faith assuming something about me that you don’t know to be true. Who are my High Priests? Ricky Gervais and Richard Dawkins? Or is saying that I am “intellectually and pshychologically [sic] dishonest” your way of saying you don’t want to argue…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
empathologicalism July 16, 2012 at 05:02

@pugs
“”Her list of qualities in what she considered to be a “good man” was a mile long, and impossible to even attempt to fulfill. I wish her luck. The thing that most people seem to miss when quoting scriptures that reference marriage is that everything they describe was a lot easier to do back when all you had was your tent, your flock, or your farm. “”
———————–
Exactly my point. The divorce rate MAY be lower for the couples where the men supplicate themselves thus to the wife, fulfilling that list. Thats NOT a so called faithful Christian, that is a pandering husband.

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Art Vandelay July 16, 2012 at 05:54

Exactly my point. The divorce rate MAY be lower for the couples where the men supplicate themselves thus to the wife, fulfilling that list. Thats NOT a so called faithful Christian, that is a pandering husband.

And I doubt any of that is covered by scripture.

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zed July 16, 2012 at 06:12

I always advise atheist people to read some the Ante-Nicene church fathers like Clement, Origen, Barnabas, and Ignatius if they want to know what Christianity really is supposed to look like. You get a whole different take on it; any one of those guys would puke if they saw what clods like Driscoll were doing.

I would say it makes much more sense for Christians to know what Christianity really is supposed to look like. People are reacting today to what it looks like today, not what it looked like 19 centuries ago.

How is it that there is supposedly only one true “son” of God, but every woman alive today (or at least the ones who support Driscoll’s church) are “God’s daughters”?

If the Bible is considered the ultimate authority on all things, it has plenty to say about “false prophets.” It seems that I have something in common with Clement, Origen, Barnabas, and Ignatius – the blasphemy coming from modern pulpits makes me want to puke.

“Physicians, heal thyselves.” Remove the beams from your own eyes before you come after the specks in your brothers’ eyes with a pickaxe. Your own churches have turned cannibal – they are eating their own. It’s pretty tough to attract new adherents to an institution which is driving away its own faithful.

It’s fine for you to run away from churches that hate you. It’s not so fine for you to invade spaces where the men, that they came after before they came after you, congregate now and try to shove your heresy down their throats.

If you don’t like the churches you have now – fix them. It’s hardly up to us to fix them for you.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0
greyghost July 16, 2012 at 06:19

I just watch the video clip this morning. That guy is a pussy worshipping loser. He needs to learn some neg game over at heartiste he should let them bitches know in todays world they were lucky to have a husband. Rocco posted an article about the subject with two women one married and one single both making the same money working at the same place. one a baby momma the other a wife and mother The married one lived good the single one lived like shit as she should. Churchianity is full of shit. That is why I’ll have to keep an eye on the pope for his stance on the catholic church. ( shit canning feminism and all)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Zorro July 16, 2012 at 06:24

Just watched (or rather heard) the vid. That pastor is nuts.

If he spewed that 8 minutes of silliness to my face, my only reply would be, “Hey. God’s daughters are real whores, dontcha think?”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
Anonymous age 70 July 16, 2012 at 07:48

>>Rather, in my understanding we should let the scripture guide us, and find a church that is in line with the scriptures.

I believe it is written, if your eye offends you, pluck it out.

If churches serve only as a trap for Satan to lure men in, to destroy them and to enslave them to harlots, then there is no need to go to church. In fact, one must avoid such Satanic traps.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2
Robert in Arabia July 16, 2012 at 07:50

One of my students has 27 brothers and 10 sisters.

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Georice81 July 16, 2012 at 07:59

Driscoll is a narcissistic jerk. He is a man full of lust for other women especially the wive’s of other men. He lives his fantasy by letting all the women of the church know that their security and ultimate well-being comes from him and not their husband. He uses physical intimidation to put down the men in front of their wives. Some day he will pay and get the tar beaten from some dude that is tougher than him and won’t take it any longer.

I don’t understand why this site has such an obsession with Mark Driscoll. He doesn’t represent evangelical Christianity at all. The churches I have attended are not at all like this. I am with Rico on this in that most sermons I have heard have been positive with regards to men. Mark Driscoll is out on the fringes.

Fighting Mark Driscoll is easy because anyone can see right through him. It is harder to fight the subtle feminist philosophy that is entrenching itself in the churches. The movies, “Courageous” and “Fireproof” are an example of this. I have talked to people, both men and women, who consider them to be excellent Christian movies. Logic doesn’t seem to persuade them either. Everyone just recites the same mantra.

It isn’t just young men who don’t go to church anymore. The same is the case with young women as well. Churches have a gap where people from the ages of 18 to 29 don’t seem to want to attend. The reasons for this are many. When young people do attend it is after having a life of hedonism and riding the carousel. Usually young people attend after getting married and looking for respectability. Yet, they are not at church for the right reasons (God, repentance, faith, redemption, grace, etc.) but for social ones. The older people give in to the newer generation which is amoral and worldly and this is why you see once conservative churches become so liberal after a few years.

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Firepower July 16, 2012 at 08:08

Why Aren’t Young Men Going to Church?

Church has degraded into BABBLE.
Pedantic garbage with NO APPLICABILITY to the REAL world. It is personified in my invective against Dalcrock with his Church Gems of: “if we weaken our military, we’ll lose wars!”

Circular Logic: It’s what to think in 2012

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Josh the Aspie July 16, 2012 at 08:20

@Eric

Oh, they already have had an Evangelical slut walk.

http://cmd-n.org/2012/06/11/eaps-on-parade-christian-slut-walk-or-demonic-goddess-worship/

Take a look at the above link from the Christian Men’s Defense Network. But have some ice-water on hand, it may make your blood boil.

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freebird July 16, 2012 at 08:22

Regarding women and the aliens that probe them by night:
When the body shuts down to go to sleep at night a certain part of the brain disconnects the motor pathways.

Upon awakening,in the half dream/half awake state-sometimes there is a small glitch and a person is paralyzed momentarily as the brain awakes and re-connects the motor pathways.

Combine this normal physical effect with a pathological Princess syndrome,the sufferer of which believes
that everything on earth and in the heavens is after HER precious,precious pussie,and you have alien rape.

Yes, the aliens cannot help but probe her stink hole,they have come light years to get that stank.

No need to comment on the implications towards other types of “imaginary rape.”
Should suffice to tell LEO’s to stop taking it so seriously.As the Princess syndrome grows,so will FRA’s.
It is a compulsion,a delusion,a fixation,an obsession.
Hey-obsession-would be a great name for a perfume,yah!

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Keyster July 16, 2012 at 08:49

The current social has not been adequately absorbed by the theological.

That’s because their culture IS the theological.
Don’t assume the TradCon/SoCon/Evangelicals have their finger firmly on the pulse of popular culture and societal trends. Much like the Liberal Elites in Academia who never leave campus, The “Religious Right” never leaves the community of the church.

And also similar to MRA’s that frequent the Manosphere who seem nonplussed that EVERYBODY doesn’t see what they see. Most people on the Right are oblivious to gender politics, because they don’t frequent secular-progressive arenas where it’s so often discussed in the context of feminiSSm and “women’s rights”. To the average SoCon feminism is code for legalized abortion and nothing else…because there are so many other battlefronts the church is fighting to stay relevant.

If you approach your local pastor (raging YouTube evangelists notwithstanding), and inform him of what’s going on with men and boys in society today, they’ll listen and learn – – they have NO idea. Try approaching a “pastor” or professor of the Secular-Progressive faith, and you’ll be excommunicated from campus.

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Anonymous age 70 July 16, 2012 at 08:49

Is there a Satanic plan for feminism? If you do not believe in Satan, please skip this posting.

The only problem I have ever had with the Bible is it says Satan is a male. All the evidence points to Satan being a dearie. Malevolent; back-stabbing; conniving; disrespectful of moral authority. If you think of Satan as a dearie, suddenly Satan becomes comprehensible.

But, I digress.

A deacon of a Fundie church once told me something I have not been able to confirm nor deny. He said the Jewish people were the chosen people of God. (Confirmed.)

And, that Satan and Jesus are in a battle for them, that if Satan can destroy the Jewish people, Satan will have won. (Not confirmed by me.)

Though I have never found the written support for his belief, this is an interesting coincidence. Starting around 1895, Germany started hammering on the Jewish people, just as today feminists are hammering on all males.

Hitler very nearly wiped out the Jewish people.

So, who stopped him? Well, a lot of people, but a crucial part of the forces to stop him were the British and American males.

Shortly after the British and American male stopped the slaughter of Jews, the seeds of feminism were brought to bear, to destroy the males of those nations.

Now, the destruction of both British and American males is nearly complete. The only thing not yet accomplished is the physical murder of most males, as advocated by many feminists.

And, there is a strong anti-Israel movement in the US. Apparently, when their enemies blow up Israeli civilians including men; women; and children; and the cowards who did it run back and cower in schools with little kids; the Israelis are supposed to simply turn the other cheek. “Yes, you get to kill our kids, but we cannot kill your kids.”

The pastor of the Fundie church I mentioned above told me maybe 20 years ago that he believed the US was so immoral that the only reason it still existed was because it helped Israel and the minute it stopped the USA was done.

Let me repeat. I do believe in Satan, mostly because Satan is the only logical explanation for feminism. But, the rest of it I cannot and will not defend, even as I choose to suspect it might be true. It is an interesting coincidence, and I do not care if anyone else believes a word of it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 10
freebird July 16, 2012 at 09:03

@anon70
The pagan goddess Lilith was a contender for the throne.
Some rad-fems to this still engage in
Lilith worship,also Ghia the earth mother,certain Norse goddess of old, ect.
“salad bar” beliefs,taken out of context of the SEMINAL male necessarily dominant co-mythical Gods.

These crazed bitches believe they are the source of all life and hence superior.
Neglecting to think about the need for sperm.
Why should they when obtaining sperm
(and eggs) is as easy as call FedX?

The State pays for the lower 20 percentile’s entire cost.
Meanwhile a man has to be rich to travel abroad and pay the entire cost himself overseas.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
Anonymous age 70 July 16, 2012 at 09:04

>>He [Driscoll] doesn’t represent evangelical Christianity at all.

Oh, really?

In fall of 1984, I was working as a counselor for our local Father’s Rights group. A Christian man called me. He had learned his wife was having an affair. So, assuming he could get support from his church, he went to his pastor.

Who screamed insults at him, telling him it was his fault his wife had committed adultery. His fault; not hers.

I thought perhaps I missed something in the Bible. So, I got a paperback copy of one of the top modern bibles, and scanned through the entire thing, not trusting my use of a concordance.

Any mention whatsoever of marriage or men and woman of any sort, I noted the page in the back cover. This was a long task.

Then, I went back through studying at length each reference. I found no where did it say a man was responsible for his wife’s adultery, or any other sin. In fact, I found several places where it plainly says the exact opposite. Let me repeat, very clearly says the opposite.

Yet, over the last 28 years, men from all over the USA have reported via MRA newsletters or boards that the pastor of their church says the same thing. Man fault!

And, I have personally heard it in churches in the Midwest; in Amarillo, Texas, where my blow-hard SIL agrees with that. I believe he is a deacon at Paramount.

Also, in McAllen, Texas, First Baptist Church. And, my youngest son has heard it on the East Coast.

I have also heard it on evangelical radio shows.

And, in 1997, at the National Promise Keeper’s convention, that viewpoint was domainant. YOUR FAULT YOUR WIFE COMMITTED ADULTERY, not hers.

So much so that I do not and cannot take seriously anyone who denies the almost universal presence of such heresy in the evangelical churches in the USA.

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Keyster July 16, 2012 at 09:13

I don’t understand why this site has such an obsession with Mark Driscoll. He doesn’t represent evangelical Christianity at all. The churches I have attended are not at all like this.

You’ll find that the Manosphere has a mix of Conservative/SoCon and Liberal/S-P’s. The purveyors of MRA blogs feel compelled to balance alternating view points so as not to alienate large portions of their support base.

Should you start leaning too far Right in your coverage, you need to dredge up some obscure SoCon/TradCon reference to shaming men into “manning up”. This validates the Liberal/S-P’s belief system that SoCons are at least as bad for men and boys (if not worse), and keeps him engaged.

The divide between Conservative/SoCon and Liberal/S-P MRA’s (both ostensibly anti-feminist), is what keeps the MRM from moving. It’s not a unified front politically and never has been. Until that happens it will remain a “Radical-Extremist Lunatic Fringe Internet Fraternity”…blogging and commenting.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 7
Rebel July 16, 2012 at 09:27

For those who might be interested to know, there are about 22 ooo religions in the world today.

The one religion I support is not even a religion: I name , science.

Notice, in passing, that science is 100% masculine.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 12
joeb July 16, 2012 at 09:36

We already went throw this in the 1700s the king of England said the religion would be the religion that permits him to run throw wife after wife in order to have a male child .
We ran to America from The kings rule . Now The Government see’s the Genius in The Kings religion . Its about control; Modern Christians lends itself to the Government idea’s of Male Slavery . What can better then that for a power Hungry Group of Self righteous megalomaniacs .
They want Nobility .
Its Ok because soon all these people will be leading there flock into a hole in the ground some ware ,Telling them that the world is ending .
Essentially taking them self’s out of the Gene pool . I say keep up the good work Psycho pastors. Cleaning up the pool so the rest of us can evolve .

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2
Anonymous age 70 July 16, 2012 at 09:44

This man-fault heresy — and it is a heresy — is not “a” heresy. It is THE heresy, the heresy which has destroyed the Christian churches in the US, and because of the millions of feminist supporters the churches supply, it has also destroyed the USA from within.

I have been studying this heresy for 28 years, since 1984 when that Christian man brought it to my attention.

The root of the heresy is total confusion over the imperative statements to women to submit to their husbands, paired with the imperative statement to men to love their wives as Christ loved the church, etc.

There is a place in the Bible where it says men are to be the leaders. This is not an imperative command to men; it is an informative statement for both. The heretics, millions strong, assume like total idiots this means male leadership is initiated by men leading.

In other words, “manly, studly real men like myself have submissive wives and because we are such studly, manly men their knees buckle and they get wet when we come into the room. If you were real men, your wives would also submit to you. Since they do not submit, it is your fault, loser.”

So, let us read what the Bible says a man should do if his wife is rebellious and argumentative. Surely, the true inspired word of God will include important information like that, right?

Hit a concordance for ‘contentious’, roughly rebellious and argumentative. It says you would be better off living in the desert or on a roof than to be married to a woman like that. No solution is provided at all, therefore we can conclude no rebellious woman can be led by a man.

These cretins insist that a man is supposed to be his wife’s spiritual teacher and leader. The heresy is that she can become this by his actions.

In 1997, at the Convention, some dude in Promise Keeper’s said, sarcastically, “Where was Adam when Eve was eating the apple?”

The answer, of course, is Adam was where he was supposed to be, doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing.

The PK dude apparently assumed that in the Garden Adam was Eve’s spiritual teacher and leader, therefore it was Adam’s fault that she ate the apple. Most heresies do involve idiots who neither read nor understand the Bible.

In the Garden, God Himself was Eve’s spiritual leader and teacher, coming down to the Garden to talk with Adam and Eve.

In spite of having God as her personal spiritual leader and teacher, Eve sinned. But, these Driscoll-type morons assume a mere mortal husband is supposed to be more powerful than God Himself. (Which essentially is what they think of themselves.)

Sorry to be stuck on this, but as I have said I have been following this heresy since 1984, and it disgusts me. You do not need to go to a heretic church, nor do you need to run from church to church, exposing yourself to Satanic forces, in vain hope of finding a non-heretical church. You have your Bible and need no more.

Now, GTHO. Heh, heh.

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Christina July 16, 2012 at 10:05

I think what this pastor is saying about men is the least of his problems. There is no biblical foundation for any of what he just espoused and people (not just men) should be leaving his church in droves. And if the congregation can’t tell this man is speaking lies, than there are bigger problems in the church than the pastor.

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Craig Himself July 16, 2012 at 10:27

I’ve been going to Mars Hill (the church this fellow started) for a few years now, and was present for this very sermon. The very next Sunday was the companion message “Marriage and Women” (http://youtu.be/fa44Ja6Zc5g), but he only called the women out on THEIR sexual sin in the softest way imaginable.

The mighty mighty Dalrock called this one perfectly as well: That you never chew a fellow out in front of his subordinates IF you want him to go on and succeed. Not in the military, not at work, and not in church. Whatever you think about the Promise Keepers, at the very least they kept the women out of their events for this reason.

Pastor Mark calling people on their sexual sin is only doing his job, BUT
A: He never calls women out that way, and
B: He does it without removing the women first
…which is, shall I say, softly humiliating for the fellas.

I don’t have my head fully around this yet, but it reminds me of when Heartiste once explained that some white knights were “clueless alphas”, and I think that’s what’s going on here.

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Keyster July 16, 2012 at 11:32

Lilith was Adam’s first wife and perveived as a complete disaster by God. She challenged him on everything and desired to whore around behind his back. This is why God’s second attempt at woman was Eve, who came from Adam’s rib.

Lilith and Eve represented the two potential sides of anima or woman, that man should be aware of; that she needed perfecting to accomodate Adam…(and be his partner rather than his competitor).

Lilith, cast out of the Garden of Eden, joined up with Satan to help corrupt Adam (men) – – but he didn’t fall for it. Eventually Lilith was summoned as the spirit that took babies in the night (S.I.D.S.), as directed by Satan.

Feminism, combined with female sexual power, is the incarnation of Lilith…ie – sexual revolution, abortion, etc., to sublimate men and set the stage for the apocalypse.

This is expressed in Jewish folklore.
(I added the “feminism incarnation of Lilith” part, because it seems to fit.)

Lilith was inspiration for the all female Lesbian/Feminist music event “Lilith Fair” started by Sarah McLachlan. Lilith was the first sassy, independent and empowered woman.

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migu July 16, 2012 at 11:38

I’m sick of even trying this. Isaiah had a good question for God. Why? Nobody gives a shit!

Apparently God’s answer was right. Enough do, and they know who you are. Don’t worry you give them hope that they aren’t alone.

Like I said before. Read the Bible wherever it is you like to read in solitude. You don’t need a study guide. It’s clear.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
migu July 16, 2012 at 11:52

Anonymous at 70,

That heresy is old, correct me if I’m mistaken. It’s Mammon. It manifests everywhere.

Respect old man. That made sense to me.

Thanks.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
migu July 16, 2012 at 12:01

Keyster,

Lilith is apocrypha. She use to be taught about in catechism classes. No longer.

Doctrine states Eve was the first wife. Genesis states God.created man and woman before Adam and Eve. The translation renders males and females.

This is what we do now. Men and women are gone. The males and females have returned.

One way to put Genesis in congruence. Last time this state of affairs ended in the global flood. Or is that simply allegory?

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HeligKo July 16, 2012 at 12:14

Why Driscol, because he is an exaggerated version of what is seen in every church. After my wife moved out and I moved back into the metro to be closer to the kids, I went to two churches. My experience was this. The first one, I stood there talking to a group of people I had been introduced to. A man in their “Single, Again” group looked at me and said, “So, what did you do?” in reference to losing my wife. I went on a mini tirade about being a good husband who took care of his family while she fucked around and spent my money. I got lots of looks, because yes I used harsh language in the church building. I heard mutterings of my being bitter as if I was some crazy guy who wouldn’t hear them. The second church was much the same. Their deacon over something that they shipped off the divorced/divorcing people to for entertainment asked a very similar question. Perhaps with a bit more tact, but my response was less tactful. I simply said “Fuck you” and walked out the door. Its embedded in the churches.

I then would check out churches by going to the web and pulling up the most recent mother’s day and father’s day sermons. Mother’s day sermons contain the following
* hardest job in the world (that’s why biology lets anyone with a vagina become one)
* abandoned (divorced, single others, husband inattentive and lazy)
* unappreciated (men aren’t taking up the slack enough for them to rest)

Father’s day contained the following
* most important thing a father does is love the mother of their children (even when she chose to let another cock in her vagina and left you with the family debt while she got loaded and had fun)
* don’t do enough for their children and their mothers
* too many dead beats (meaning financially aren’t ponying up what women want, because involved poor dads are still dead beats)
* abandoning their families (too much time at work, ignore the fact to keep up with the child support or wifely spending they need that third job)
* you can do better.

After reviewing these sermons, I have yet to find a church that extols men’s virtues in the family while holding them accountable, and does the same for women. They all blame men for family problems and praise women for the successes. For due credit to be offered, there must be responsibility. Men are held responsible for the family by churches, and thus should be also given credit for their successes. I will not enter the walls of a church that follows the modern caricature of Christianity that exists today.

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joeb July 16, 2012 at 12:52

The first thing on feminist theory is trying to removing what they conciser a male run church .
I think they should start there own Church , a giant Tupperware God made of a million tiny Virginia’s would be a laugh ,Followed by a candle lite party .

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 13:00

DCM:
‘Must you guys be antagonistic and critical?’

There was nothing antagonistic or critical about it. Not many people have read those authors—especially most Christians—and that was the point: that if more people read them and stopped listening to dipshits like Driscoll then there would be LESS antagonism and criticism.

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 13:13

Migu&Keyster:
What ‘Lillith’ was a Babylonian or Assyrian goddess. The story was made up during the Jewish exile there, as a coded message aimed at their oppressors. There’s no more to the story than that.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
Josh the Aspie July 16, 2012 at 13:15

@Anonymous age 70

Genesis 3:1-6

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

When the actual eating occurred, Eve was with Adam. But I see nothing to indicate that he was with her during the deception.

Now the question is why Adam ate it. Did he know that it came from that particular tree? It’s entirely plausible from this passage that Eve wanted what she viewed as good for her husband, so she was the one that deceived Adam to feed it to him.

Later in the same passage we read:

11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

Also, in 1 Timothy 2 we have

14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

These are the verses that I am aware of concerning that dynamic in the fall, I’ll try to remember to find more later. If others are aware of further relevant verses, please let me know.

In any case, there is no evidence here that Adam was present during the serpent’s approach, or during Adam’s before the actual consumption of the fruit. I find it entirely plausible that he was not present for those events, but was simply given the fruit later, and could not identify it particularly.

Adam is not mentioned in the passage on the deception until the fruit is given to him by Eve, who is eating the fruit. Eve bears greater punishment as well. Also, later on we hear testimony that Eve was deceived, and Adam was not. This could all point to the idea that Adam was not deceived by the serpent, but by Eve.

Then again, since it’s not explicitly stated that Adam was not deceived by the serpent, but that he simply was not deceived; and since it does not say that Adam was not present when the deception occurred, or the fruit was picked… I don’t think that we can make a firm conclusion here.

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Josh the Aspie July 16, 2012 at 13:33

To clarify one of my above points, it specifically says that Adam was not deceived.

If we take that literally, this means that either he walked into sin with his eyes open, or he did not see it coming, but no one pulled the wool over his eyes either. It could be that Eve simply sat down and handed him some fruit, and that Adam then took it, and ate it, with no pretense or deception occurring.

But, again, from the above passages, we don’t know. Deciding that the above interpretation is true may well adding to or subtracting from the scriptures.

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Art Vandelay July 16, 2012 at 13:57

The divide between Conservative/SoCon and Liberal/S-P MRA’s (both ostensibly anti-feminist), is what keeps the MRM from moving. It’s not a unified front politically and never has been

This kind of reminds me of the fringe lefty parties and groups in my home country. Their whole reason of being is arguing over whether Marx or Trotzki or Lenin or Engels are right. They don’t focus on what they have in common, they are desperate to differentiate themselves. Kind of reminds me of “The Life of Brian”.

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Georice81 July 16, 2012 at 14:09

Young men and women are not going to church for the same reason and that is that the churches don’t know how to deal with them and give them contradictory messages.

Churches tell young adults to refrain from pre-marital sex on the one hand but then tell them to delay marriage until they are much older. Therfeore these young adults are told to be living a monastic life for much of their 20′s which is extremely difficult considering the hormones are running wild and in college there are a ton of people of the opposite sex all over the place. The solution is to encourage these “kids” to marry early and not deal with sexual immorality just as Paul said to do. But the churches don’t preach this. Usually these kids end up having sex and when the flood gates open they go out of control. At this point, can one expect these kids to want to go to church? They wait until they are married or are much more mature (late 30s) to return to church.

Christianity Today had a very good article about this and their conclusion was that churches are anti-marriage. Somehow they expect the impossible from young adults. Also many churches have extremely unrealistic views on dating that border on being hilarious such as not being in the same car with someone of the opposite sex. This may work ok in previous generations when kids were in their teens and early 20′s and were expected to remain pure and marry young.

The churches now encourage kids to marry late, and date a lot while not engaging in sex. If they do engage in sex, they are bad. Under these conditions why would any young person feel comfortable in church?

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Matt Strictland July 16, 2012 at 14:12

Many Christian men are unchurched because there is little for them in church.

As for the rest, this is not a Christian society and there is no social benefit in being there.

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HeligKo July 16, 2012 at 14:45

Sadly, I have had more educated conversations with men who have abandoned church on theology and the Bible than with many pastors and lay leaders in the church. The former have been well read in the Bible and early church leaders and the latter have been well educated in the current pop-christian writing in a 150 pages or less you find laying around the church.

The denominations that require more education and training for ordainment do tend to produce pastors that can argue with on firmer ground, but somewhere there is a disconnect from the philosophy of man christian leaders and the scripture they are supposed to be supporting.

Men need meat to dig into, and the pop culture, pop psychology crap that is fed to the masses in most churches today doesn’t satisfy that at all.

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Rob July 16, 2012 at 14:47

Actually, Genisis clearly says what Adam did – it is in the first statement of God’s curse to him.

Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.

God, unlike ministers and churches, is pretty darn clear about it. It was because Adam listened to the woman that he sinned.

And, if you take things a step further, and compare the way that men’s and women’s brains are different, you can see that likely what the “original sin” is about is putting the relative truth (female truth) over the absolute truth (God’s truth).

God is the Absolute Truth – every riddle in the Bible about “who” God is, is consistent with “Absolute Truth.” Later, the New Testament confirms it when Jesus declares he IS the Truth. The Bible, or God’s word, is also represented as an Absolute Truth.

Now, during the time of the Garden, everything in the world was created by God – except for Eve, who was created from Adam. Adam himself was made in God’s image and was a carbon copy of God… and Eve was a carbon copy of Adam. Eve is a copy of a copy – she is once more removed from the Absolute Truth than Adam was.

And this is also how the Founding Fathers based their system of government – upon a proper ordering of the Truth – based upon the Bible.

1 – God’s Law = Absolute Truth = God
2 – Natuarl Law = Ojective Truth = Man
3 – Civil Law = Subjective Truth = Woman

If a subjective truth contradicts an objective truth, it is false. And if an objective truth contradicts the Absolute Truth, it is false. This is the proper ordering of Truth and is the only way various truths can be properly contained. Without this ordering, humans revert back into socially dysfunctional animals.

Man, while still being afflicted with subjective truths, is capable of adhering to principle and reaching the objective truth.

Woman, given that her truth changes constantly to suit her purposes, is always based in the relative truth – it is the nature of females to “change her mind.” Remember, women find truth by consensus of the herd. If the herd believes 1+1 = 3, then it is right because the herd says so. If tomorrow the herd believes 1+1 = 1, then it is right, because the herd says so. (women find truth by arbitrary opinions and a sense of unity – by consensus, or relative truths).

Men adhere to principle and logic, and can escape the herd’s consensus and come to the conlcusion that 1+1 = 2, dammit, no matter how much you cows moo at me.

Look at how the serpent deceived Eve – he didn’t lie, but rather craftily worded what he said. He was right – Adam and Eve did gain knowledge of Good and Evil! And he was right, they did not surely die – for God offered them a path to salvation if they followed God’s ways. The serpent twisted the truth – or rather, presented relative truths to Eve.

The only Absolute Truth they had to follow was “Don’t eat from that tree.” But Eve then used used the Relative Truth – ie. her rationalization hamster – to justify why she should over-rule God’s truth. “It was pleasing to the eye, good for food, and useful for gaining wisdom, so she took some and ate it.” (She rationalized why her relative truths should over-rule God’s word).

Keep in mind, everywhere in nature, the male is the servant of the female. All living things follow this rule – except humans, as mandated by religions such as in the Bible. The Bible “orders” the truth – 1) God’s Truth, 2) Man’s Truth and 3) Woman’s Truth. (This is why it is also in the Bible that in order for a woman to be in proper relation to her husband, her husband also has to be in proper relation to God/The Truth – see the Founding Fathers, for how they are to be contained). By listening to the Woman’s Truth over Man’s Truth (and God’s Truth), humans revert back to living like the rest of the animals, who follow female truth.

The original sin, I suspect, is about using the false truths our brains create, to over-rule the Absolute Truth that must be adhered to if we are to live as humans rather than animals. Since women are mired in relative truth, they are not to over-rule man’s truth (and man’s truth must not over-ride the Absolute Truth). Thus woman is to submit to man, and is to keep silent in the Church – she is to have no say to men when it comes to men seeking to discover the Absolute Truth (God) for it is in the nature of woman to lead man astray – see the modern church.

Because you listened to your wife… It’s the first thing God says about why Adam is being cursed.

Buddhism puts forth the same message about a woman’s mind being mired in Relative Truth:

The course of a river and a woman’s mind both wander. Water is malleable, it turns here and there when rocks and mountains block its path. Women are like this. They are inconstant as water. Although they know what is right, when they run into the strong will of a man, they are checked and turn in bad directions. The right fades like a line drawn on the water. Women’s nature is unsteady: though they see what they should be, they soon become what they should not be. Buddhahood is founded on integrity. Therefore, women, who are easily swayed, cannot become Buddhas. Women have the “five obstacles” (inability to become anything great) and the “three followings” (follows first the father, then the husband, then the son). Thus in one sutra it is written: “Even should the eyes of all the buddhas of the three worlds fall to the earth, women cannot become Buddha.” Another text says: “Even if you can capture the clear wind, you can never capture the mind of a woman.”Buddha – from Selected Writings of Nichiren

Women’s truth constantly changes because it is relative – they cannot become Buddha because they cannot adhere to the principle. Men can adhere to the principle (but don’t always do so), therefore, the male’s truth must always lead the female’s truth, or we start to do stupid things.

The church is serving the woman, and placing her truth over both man’s and God’s truths. It is indeed the Garden of Eden all over again and any man who finds himself in such a church ought to follow God’s advice and Go His Own Way – Follow the one True path, the straight and narrow and all that… There’s no point in going to church to listen to the Serpent’s interpretation of God’s word.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 1
Firepower July 16, 2012 at 15:07

art vajdelay

This kind of reminds me of the fringe lefty parties and groups in my home country. Their whole reason of being is arguing over whether Marx or Trotzki or Lenin or Engels are right. They don’t focus on what they have in common, they are desperate to differentiate themselves. Kind of reminds me of “The Life of Brian”.

lol, boris, YOU’VE just described
Today’s
MRA!

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HeligKo July 16, 2012 at 15:13

@Rob has anything ever really changed since the Garden of Eden?

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Jacko July 16, 2012 at 15:24

These Protestant pastors are nuts. They invent their own version of Christianity to suit themselves and their wallets.

The only real and true Christian church is the Catholic Church. Sure, the Catholic Church is far from perfect, but it was founded at the very beginning of Christianity 2,000 years ago. Catholic teaching has developed over the course of 2,000 years and it does not change depending on what some crackpot priest or preacher thinks.

And what does the Catholic Church teach about the relationship between men and women? Well, here it is:

- the celibate single life is fundamentally better than married life [the Church is pro-MGTOW and WGTOW] because it’s easier to live a holy life when you’re not married

- women are not naturally cut out for leadership and therefore cannot be priests or the head of a family [the Church has always known that women want to be led my men]

- married women should not use birth control and should be open to having lots of babies

- married women should not deny their husdands sex; sex is the expression of the physical, emotional and spiritual unity of the married couple; a woman who denies her husband sex is effectively denying their married oneness

- married women need to accept their husbands’ leadership, unless the husband is a complete asshole; even then, the wife cannot divorce her husband; annulment, while available, is only supposed to be granted in rare circumstances

- women who have indiscriminately fucked a large number of men are destined for hell if they do not repent; if they do sincerely repent and change their lives, they can go to heaven; however, the Church would never encourage a man to marry such a woman; the Church would recommend that a woman like this who repents should henceforth live a celibate single existence for the rest of her life

This is what real Christianity says about relations between the sexes. I’m glad I’m not a Protestant.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 9
Georice81 July 16, 2012 at 15:42

@Jacko

I wouldn’t bash Protestants. One shouldn’t throw stones at another’s house when theirs is made out of glass.

Very very few Catholics follow the Church’s teachings. As a Protestant my beliefs and lifestyle agrees with Catholic teachings more than most Catholics that I come in contact with.

I am also don’t believe in bashing the Catholic Church either. I wish more Catholics did follow its teachings.

Both Protestant Churches and the Catholic Churches are in crisis and it is manifested in different ways. Feminism is attacking both and the Protestant and Catholic churches have been lukewarm in their response to it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Rob July 16, 2012 at 16:03

@Rob has anything ever really changed since the Garden of Eden? — HeligKo

Likely not. It has been a struggle ever since the beginning of time to evade the unconscious rule of woman. It is what our hindbrain tells us to do but what our thinking brain tries to resist. Thus, we have the rise and fall of civilizations. When we follow the female, all things are relative truth and we live in grass huts. When we follow the Absolute Truth by using the male’s ability to reach Objective Truth, we “rise up from being beasts of the fields” and start living a more civilized, structured existence. Marxism as well, btw, is based in 100% Relative Truth, like a woman – thus you can see why they are ideologically opposed to such things as the US Constitution and Christianity, both of which “order the truth.”

This must have been going on around the time of the beginning of Christianity in much the same way as now, or else the New Testament would not say, after telling us that women are to remain silent in the church, that if the woman must learn something, let her husband teach it to her in the home. One only has to look at a message board such as the Spearhead itself to see what happens when the women show up to “help.” First of all, they are mired in the relative truth (NAWALT ad nauseum) and second of all, they use their arguments to socially manipulate others into submission rather than seek the actual truth. At least if she only argues with her husband in the home, the entire church body would not become corrupted, and this must be why the New Testament says such things.

Virtually every philosopher that has examined woman has also come to the same conclusion – women cannot attain the ideal, lack a sense of justice, and are mired in ever changing truth and deception – thus, rather than conquering the outside world (which would require objective truth) they limit themselves to mastering man.

“… the influence of the Lacedaemonian women has been most mischievous. The evil showed itself in the Theban invasion, when, unlike the women of other cities, they were utterly useless and caused more confusion than the enemy.” — Aristotle

Sound familiar, anyone?

“Having a woman help with Men’s Issues is like having a five year old “help” putting up wallpaper. No Thanks!” — Angry Harry

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
L{DiracDelta(t)} July 16, 2012 at 16:23

To mangle Chesterton,
“They write [...] articles and letters in the press about why the churches are empty,without even going there to find out if they are empty, or which of them are empty.” (The part in elipses doesn’t apply to your article.)

It might be instructive to determine which churches and denominations are devoid of men and which aren’t.

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keyster July 16, 2012 at 16:32

Migu&Keyster:
What ‘Lillith’ was a Babylonian or Assyrian goddess. The story was made up during the Jewish exile there, as a coded message aimed at their oppressors. There’s no more to the story than that.

As if the Burning Bush and Noah’s Ark are perfectly credible, pure non-fictional accounts of Judeo-Christian history.
Folklore is as folklore does.
I don’t really care, I still like the story…because it references sentiments as cautionary tale, towards the female half of that time.

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Josh the Aspie July 16, 2012 at 18:12

@Rob

Fair enough, he listened to Eve, not the Serpent. Thank you for pointing that out. But what did Eve tell Adam? Did she tell him that it was the fruit of the tree he was not to eat from? Or did she just say “Here, eat this.” followed by his eating it, and figuring out where it came from after he found his mind changed?

I think that the most natural reading is that she did indeed convince him to eat of the fruit with him, and that is why he was punished, but that’s not the only reading I find plausible.

Also, keep in mind the following:

Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

So she was indeed made by God, but not from the dust, but rather a part of Adam. She was made specifically due to the lack of a suitable companion among the other creations, so it seems logical that she was made specifically to be his companion.

Also keep in mind that there are multiple places in nature where the male serves the female no more than she him. Within wolf packs the two Alphas share the power and duty equally, or roughly so. In Lion prides, the Male is the head of the pride, and the Lionesses belong to his pride. They hunt, and he eats. His duity only comes when the pride needs to be protected from an outside threat.

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Rob July 16, 2012 at 18:50

But what did Eve tell Adam? Did she tell him that it was the fruit of the tree he was not to eat from? Or did she just say “Here, eat this.” followed by his eating it, and figuring out where it came from after he found his mind changed?

I think that the most natural reading is that she did indeed convince him to eat of the fruit with him, and that is why he was punished, but that’s not the only reading I find plausible.

Well, one thing that is undeniably clear is that he was cursed because he listened to his wife. What she said is irrelevant. After Eve ate of the fruit, Adam was still without sin… and he was not deceived – as Timothy clearly points out. So, Adam sinned willingly while Eve was deceived. When Eve said whatever she said to him, Adam took her truth over God’s and said “Sure Toots!” and swallowed ‘er down whole like any other mangina. This quite clearly indicates that God expects Man to have different cognitive abilities than the Woman, and he was punished for ignoring it.

My mistake about the way I worded Eve’s creation – I noticed it after I submitted the comment. I should have said, “Everything in the world at the time of the Garden was directly from God – except for Eve, who came from Adam.” Even though she was created by God, she came from>/i> Adam – nothing else in the world at the time of Garden except for Eve was created this way, everything else came directly from God.

As per the nature of Male and Female, here and here is what I am referring to.

Also, don’t forget, there is little doubt that the book of Genisis is derived from the ancient religion of the Sumerians. Even the Catholic Church has acknowledged this (It in no way disproves God, since God was present in the Sumerian Religion). But what I find interesting is why so many religious scholars – many of them professed Christians – instantly apologize for the misogyny found in the Bible and ancient Hebrew Texts. All of the ancient goddesses, for example, were banished from text – thus we refer to Baal rather than Ishtar (or Innana – depending on your timeline of the Bible), why all of the worst demons in the Hebrew texts were portrayed as female rather than male, or even why Sodom and Gomorrah were indicated in the feminine rather than the masculine in the Hebrew language (like how French has masculine and feminine). They were the only two cities in the entire region referred to in the feminine rather than the masculine. All the religious scholars can do is apologize for the Bible’s misogyny… not a one of them asks why the Bible had such “misogyny” – they just assume it came from something evil in the male spirit, rather than seeing it as a sign that there is something twisted about the female.

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Rob July 16, 2012 at 18:54

Actually, I think Baal’s consort might have been Ashtaroth instead of Ishtar. At any rate, goddesses were superior to gods in the ancient times… except in the Bible.

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Josh the Aspie July 16, 2012 at 18:58

Adam and several other creatures were made from the dust of the ground by God.

Genesis 2:7

Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 2:19

Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

So all the moving creatures were made from the dust of the ground by God, save for Eve who was made from Adam’s flesh and bone by God.

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 19:19

Rob:
‘Goddesses were superior to Gods in the ancient times, except in the Bible.’

I’m not sure about that. Jupiter was always depicted as the Supreme God in Graeco-Roman literature. I think there was a passage in Homer where Jupiter reminds Juno of a time when he dangled her over the edge of Olympus just to remind her who was in charge.

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Anonymous age 70 July 16, 2012 at 19:22

>>Josh the Aspie July 16, 2012 at 13:15

There is a reference in the NT on this. Adam actually knew when he took the fruit from Eve that it meant death, but he did not want her to be taken from him, so he ate it. She was deceived; he was not deceived. Timothy 2:14

He did not want to give up his pussy, to put it as simply as possible.

You pussy beggars need to think that over, heh, heh.

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Rob July 16, 2012 at 20:10

I’m not sure about that. Jupiter was always depicted as the Supreme God in Graeco-Roman literature.

Heh, I’m going for a few thousand years earlier… certainly Enki and Enlil were male, and higher gods, but for the most part, goddesses took precedence over gods. This is also where we get into how downright perverted ancient civilizations were as they worshipped fertility… doing things like having sexual ceremonies to collect united sperm and female lubrication and also menstrual blood to consume… the ancient Sumerians/Babylonians/Phonecians et al had nothing on internet porn.

When God/El left either Sumeria or Babylon alongside Abram, he was a God with no female consort – there was no sex worship involved with God.

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 20:40

Rob;
It’s too bad that we lack archaeological evidence on how the western pantheons evolved compared to the eastern ones. The Greeks and Romans were generally repulsed by the eastern mythologies and fertility rites.

I suppose that a parallel could be drawn between the goddess-worshipping Mesopotamian cultures with child sacrifice and fertility rites and its modern feminist variants with abortion and sperm-banks.

If the Greeks and Latins ever had such histories they wisely abandoned them and were able to become civilized.

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Dudeist Priest Applicant July 16, 2012 at 21:24

“The only real and true Christian church is the Catholic Church”

Atheists agree with you that protestants are making it up. They also agree with you that Orthodox Christianity is BS, and that Islam and Hinduism and etc etc etc are all full of it. You’re practically an atheist. All believers are.

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migu July 16, 2012 at 21:55

Eric, rob

Chronus and gaia. That’s the other western story about about the supplanting of goddess worship. It goes all the way to the titans who the goddesses male consorts. The titans lost. Zeus established patriarchal rule.

It’s the story of rising above the beasts pagan style.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself July 16, 2012 at 22:04

Why Aren’t Young Men Going to Church?

Religious affiliation is not an immutable characteristic, so why be surrounded by a whole bunch of people who behave as if it were one? I was raised Roman Catholic, and Roman Catholics show very little class when a Catholic leaves the faith. In a coincidence, the church I attended growing up was named after the same saint whose saint’s day is also my birthday (St. Pius X and August 21). Apparently now I only attend twice a year and for sacraments, if at all in a calendar year. I would be more willing to attend if the church actually opposed divorce as a means of ending a marriage and in opposing divorce, did not mess around. Other changes would also have to occur which are unlikely to occur for the foreseeable future.

Where I live, most Catholics whine when there is no snow on the ground on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day or they whine when it isn’t very warm at Easter (Albany, New York is just south of 43 degrees North latitude).

At least Muslims (whose holidays leap forward ten days per year) do not get irritated when they do not get the meteorology they would like for their holidays.

Roman Catholic males are asked repeatedly to consider the priesthood because many white Roman Catholics outright refuse to tolerate a priest who has to hire a diction coach to eliminate or reduce his accent. Lamentably for most Roman Catholic men from the United States, the priesthood is not an engine of geographic mobility and it is unclear to many Roman Catholics how much a priest earns in a particular location and how much discretionary income he would have, if any.

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Eric July 16, 2012 at 22:12

Interesting tidbit from ‘The Life of Mary According to the Mystics.’ (imprimatur, nihil obstat, 1951). p.42:

‘When Mary had reached the age of thirteen and half years, God spoke to her in the Temple and told her it was time to seek a husband. Mary was disappointed because she enjoyed her service in the Temple. But the Lord again spoke to her that through her marriage all mankind would be blessed. And Mary, obedient to the Lord, set out as commanded.’

I wonder how Driscoll and his carousel-riding female groupies would spin this one? You mean—God paid no attention to feminist-inspired ‘age of consent’ laws? You mean, God disapproved of Mary wanting to enjoy her grrrl power and told her to act like a responsible woman and raise a family? You mean, that she was supposed to use her ‘ownership of reproduction’ in the service of humanity?

No doubt Driscoll would consider all this the height of blasphemy and his groupies deeply offended. But I also have a feeling that Mary was doing God’s will much more so than Driscoll is.

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migu July 17, 2012 at 01:16

Genesis 1:26-27

This is when God creates mankind. Adam and Eve come two chapters later. The earth is already full of people when Eve sins.

Chapter three is when we discover the chosen people. Adam and Eve. Unfortunately they acted as the rest and so were made to live as the rest.

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migu July 17, 2012 at 01:28

Also, Elohim is a chaananite God. He was the overseer of their Pantheon. The other Gods and their worshipers rebelled and El left chaanan with his worshipers.

This is where the promise of chaanan comes from. Anyone really intersted can utilize Google.

It’s interesting that chaanan was in constant upheaval after El departed

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migu July 17, 2012 at 04:21

Ashtaroth, inanna, Ishtar. Same god

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Dudeist Priest Applicant July 17, 2012 at 04:33

“see i use words like buttehxt and buttehxting ad butthollio and talk like a fuckinlzozolg riatalin adderol addict doepefiend retasrdz
so da bankers and fmeinists go oh he is just like we raised him to be. he is ok.”

By bankers, of course, GBFM means ‘zeh Jews.’ He’s far more bold with his antisemitism on other blogs.

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Phil July 17, 2012 at 05:23

And here I thought that the Warburg, Schiff, and Rothschild banking families were German Roman Catholics! Dudeist-if anyone criticizes anything German, including any German political leaders in the past, the Germans should just accuse them of being anti-Germanic. Don’t address the issues, just label the people who criticize anything German as anti-Germanic. It has worked for other groups.

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Jay July 17, 2012 at 08:14

. . .because church is a nonsensical place that gets history, ethics, and morality completely wrong. . .

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Rusty July 17, 2012 at 08:18

We left our church after we discovered that the preacher was a total pervert/pedophile and a Jew-worshipping multiculturist. Then we visited at least a dozen churches in our big city area. All were radically liberal. I was totally enlightened. Here’s what we found.

There are now women preaching and leading men in prayer in every church. There were pastors constantly apologizing to the women for our “unenlightened” past. Our old church had a practicing Jew giving the Easter sermon and told us to give eternal thanks (worship) to the Jews and Judaism. No one thought that was wrong. There was rock music so loud your ears ring in some churches. There were preachers condemning whites for “racism” and advocating race-mixing for Jesus. There were services and facilities in a few of the big churches for Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and I don’t want to know what else. No one preaches against gays anymore; they skip over those passages now. Every preacher is a bald-faced liar in the grossest possible sense (I know; I keep 4-5 bibles open during sermon: Greek, Latin, and three different English versions). We even visited a couple of churches in some small towns in another state, which I was assured were very conservative. B.S. Those two had already started to rot as well.

The worst part was that the congregations were all totally passive and accepted it all without question. My objections were met with blank stares. (Jesus doesn’t call them sheep for nothing.) That does it for me, I’m done. Christianity has turned 100% pinko-commie, and is now the biggest organized enemy of Western peoples. Our family will not be churching any more, that’s for damned sure.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 4
dhanu July 17, 2012 at 08:34

Where are most of the comments gone?

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dhanu July 17, 2012 at 08:39

Weird. Just before I made the above comment, only 2 comments were visible. But they all showed up as soon as I made the comment.

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American July 17, 2012 at 08:50

The white Gender, gender-Raunch community has “Empowered” themselves by perverting American law enforcement into persecuting hetero-males. This is a fact.
Is this white gender, gender-raunch community empowerment at the expense of perverting American law enforcement, a noble Empowerment???? or a perverse Empowerment???

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S-Cargo July 17, 2012 at 11:58

Instead of tithing 10% of your income to listen to pseudo-feminist twaddle, convert to Zen Buddhism. It’s a very masculine belief system. The moral code of Buddhism, the Five Precepts, can fit on the back of a business card. And it’s a moral code that is consistent, doable, won’t make a chump or a doormat out of you, and will eliminate about 95% of your problems with other people.

Turn the other cheek? Zen Buddhists made warfare into an art form, somewhat like flower arranging or gardening but with more noise and blood.

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Christina July 17, 2012 at 11:58

It could be that Eve simply sat down and handed him some fruit, and that Adam then took it, and ate it, with no pretense or deception occurring.

This is stupid. Something very wrong with this world that this isn’t considered DECEPTION.

IT IS deception. Its manipulative and decieving to hand over incriminating evidence to someone without informing them of what it is.

If there is nothing that states that Adam was decieved, it is far more likely that he took it with eyes wide open, deliberately disobeying God…

In either case, both men & women have pretty hefty curses as a result. This is like beating a dead horse – ALL have fallen short. It doesn’t really matter who started it anymore.

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Eric July 17, 2012 at 13:51

Dudeist Priest Applicant:
Isn’t it somewhat interesting that Futrelle has been talking a lot lately about MRAs as a ‘hate group’, and that some his followers have been appearing lately on SPLC comment threads, just as we seem to having a lot of anti-Semitism, anti-gay, and other racism suddenly showing up here?

If these guys want to talk about ‘conspiracy theories’ there might be one brewing a little closer to home.

‘By bankers, of course, GB4M means the Jews’

All his talk about anal sex sounds suspiciously like canards against gay guys as well.

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W.F. Price July 17, 2012 at 14:02

Weird. Just before I made the above comment, only 2 comments were visible. But they all showed up as soon as I made the comment.

-dhanu

It’s the caching software. It’s got some bugs that way, but I need it to keep bandwidth manageable.

W.F. Price July 17, 2012 at 14:26

Isn’t it somewhat interesting that Futrelle has been talking a lot lately about MRAs as a ‘hate group’, and that some his followers have been appearing lately on SPLC comment threads, just as we seem to having a lot of anti-Semitism, anti-gay, and other racism suddenly showing up here?

-Eric

It makes sense. The two opposing groups feed off each other.

Dalrock July 17, 2012 at 15:57

Man up and marry those sluts!

As bad as that tirade is, it is only half of the problem. Driscoll also gives a moral pass to unwed mothers, blaming their profound moral failure on (wait for it…) men for not being good enough for the women to want to marry. Here is an excerpt from an interview Relevant magazine did with him:

…if you’re a single gal hoping to get married someday. You’re like: “Seriously, that’s the candidate pool? You’ve got to be kidding me.” That’s why 41 percent of births right now are to unmarried women. A lot of women have decided: “I’m never going to find a guy who is actually dependable and responsible to have a life with. So I’ll just get a career and have a baby and just intentionally be a single mother because there are no guys worth spending life with.

I guess it makes sense. They are the daughters of God, after all. Incidentally, Focus on the Family’s Director of Family Formation Studies (Glenn Stanton) makes the same case in his book Secure Daughters, Confident Sons: How Parents Guide Their Children into Authentic Masculinity and Femininity:

If women can’t find good men to marry, they will instead compromise themselves by merely living with a make-do man or getting babies from him without marriage. Unfortunately, this describes exactly the new shape of family growth in Western nations by exploding margins…
Women want to marry and have daddies for their babies. But if they can’t find good men to commit themselves to, well… Our most pressing social problem today is a man deficit.

Incidentally, in the same book Stanton actually claims that boys need to be molded into good men, but that girls will naturally turn into good women so long as the culture doesn’t get in the way.

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W.F. Price July 17, 2012 at 16:11

@Dalrock

Interesting link. It looks like Driscoll has been reading Michael Kimmel (or perhaps his wife read it for him and gave him the idea):

I think, in particular, it’s young men. Perhaps to some degree it is young women as well, but we’re finding more women are getting better grades, more women are graduating high school, more women are graduating college, more women are buying homes, more women are doing things that are more adult and responsible. We’ve created this. It’s a sociological category. It used to be you go from “boy” to “man,” and now you go from “boy” to “guy” to “man.” There is this whole new creation of a “guy.”

He lifted that out of Kimmel’s “Guyland”

zed July 17, 2012 at 17:09

They are the daughters of God, after all.

Hm. Sounds a bit like “every woman a goddess.”

Incidentally, in the same book Stanton actually claims that boys need to be molded into good men, but that girls will naturally turn into good women so long as the culture doesn’t get in the way.

It sounds like Stanton believes that women have not just “eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil”, but they are, in fact, the fruit itself.

Thank God that the only poor fools who put themselves in line for this blasphemy are faithful men and their sons.

Me? I stay as far away from this evil as I possibly can, and when some abominable fool shows up preaching it, I get a rope and look for the nearest tree.

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Eric July 17, 2012 at 17:37

Stanton and Driscoll both show themselves as man-haters. I think Welmer was right earlier about envy playing a part in it; but there’s something deeply mentally disturbed about these guys. Stanton actually sounds certifiably delusional: ‘women want to marry and have daddies for their babies’. Yeah, the divorce and abortion rates really bear that out.

It doesn’t seem to occur to them that all these ‘bad men’ they’re so concerned about seem to have a sexual and reproductive success rate far and above all the ‘real men’ whom women supposedly want.

The increasing numbers of ‘real men’ who are turning their backs on the Amerobitches to start families with foreign women doesn’t seem to occur to their thinking either.

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will July 17, 2012 at 19:10

@Rob
I will like to add:
1 Corinthians 11:3-12
3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7 A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[c] head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

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will July 17, 2012 at 19:15

@Jacko

Not even the catholic church is immune:
For example veneration and prayer to saints to pray for us.
Undue honour to Virgin Mary
7 Sacraments etc etc.

Use the bible to determine whether the church is true or not. Most likely the true church cuts across all denominations and divisions of christianity and not merely bound together institutionally.

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Poester99 July 17, 2012 at 20:17

Post in comments:

He does not speak for God, you are as much of a child of God as she is, thinking of her some sort of divine angel, instead of an imperfect human just like yourself is not holy by any means.
If she abuses you and makes you hate yourself, you need to leave her , and reclaim your humanity and self respect.

I have the feeling that this Mangina of ghod, intends for you to put up with just about any abuse including such that makes life like hell on earth. This Misogyny (women are not capable of despicable cruelty, or violence) combined with Misandry (men are just BAD) will be the death of the Church.

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freebird July 18, 2012 at 02:21

“Lilith was inspiration for the all female Lesbian/Feminist music event “Lilith Fair” started by Sarah McLachlan.”

Yeah, I became aware of this sickness in my home state of Michigan a few years ago.
It’s a female supremacist group that “allows” wymyn to bring young boys along, as long as those over 9 years of age are kept in a cattle corral far away from the wymyn and grrrls under their loving,man-hating care.

Try going to the Lilith fair’s website:
They explain how the presence of these wymyns sons over 9 is a ” subversive polluting influence.”

I had a strong desire to storm that camp and liberate those abused boys from their oppressors,but figure if the cops and govt will not interfere with a hate movement like that,they would also lock my ass up for helping those young boys.

You can bet your ass the coppers would not allow a group of gay men to keep their daughters in cattle corrals.

Or any group of men to subdivide girls or women in any fashion at any event.

Talk about one sided standards.

Seriously, that Lilith fair needs to be shutdown/hampered somehow.
So far they have evaded the law by holding it on private property,but does anyone here doubt that private property rights would fly out the door if the genders were reversed?

Breaking NEWS!
Lilith fair 2012 CANCELED!
Due to “differing expectations of attendees.”
I guess those few real women who objected to treating their own sons like cattle finally made a difference.
NO THANKS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT
Also, it appears the original site has been taken down,good luck verifying my cattle corral statement now,it used to right out in the open.Complete with all the man-hate you could handle.
Looks like the mens movement is driving them underground.

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freebird July 18, 2012 at 02:32

Oh yeah,lilith fair dot com now only has a “bandwidth speed test.”
Worse than a dead end, likely spews viri.
All that man-hate taken down off the net,shame,it was a fine example.

Let me look about and see if I can retrieve some of the content from some of my manosphere forum postings.

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freebird July 18, 2012 at 03:19

Mixed up the lilith fair concert schedule with the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival,which has some commonalities.
“In our day-to-day lives the only males we really have any contact with are the bratty 2- and 3-year-old sons of friends of ours. And we hate being subjected to the sight of their penises and just their overall male presence in general.”

“It is not … feminist to subject daughters, ones own or others, to males of any age given the frequency with which boys harass and abuse girls. ”

“At the Lesbian Tent Revival with Carolyn Gage, we preached radical feminism while singing, Our cunts go marching on.

“Though I didnt attend any, there were more workshops about anal sex and choosing the right dildo than I ever thought possible. There were three parades: the Butch Strut, Femme Parade, and Gaya Girls Parade (for girls aged 5-12). ”

“Tears flowed down my face for much of the Festival this year… hearing women talk about their first period, experiences of male violence, rape, incest, their vaginas, sexism, religion, becoming a lesbian – oh my god. I sat there and felt my life experience – and that of my sisters, my mother, my friends, women I’ve worked with and loved- reflected back to me. I know that Festival has saved countless lives.”

“Being able to talk about our vaginas without excluding anyone, being fearful, or apologizing. A space that centered on the experience of being born female, growing up as a girl, and living as a woman in a sexist, misogynist, woman-hating world. Words cannot express how valuable that experience is. We deserve the right to gather together.”

The boys older than 5 are imprison in a camp 20 minutes away from the main womyns area.here are some quotes from the organizers

“The Brother Sun Camp is a special campground for young boys and their mothers in its own section of the Festival property. This gives the boys a feeling of having a fun and special place of their own, while also maintaining the all-womyn environment of the main Festival areas. It is required that sons five years of age and older enroll in Brother Sun and that they not travel into the general Festival grounds with you. It is up to you as mothers in our community to actively support the age guidelines and definitions of the different childcare areas. Brother Sun provides a healthy, strong and loving program for our sons and is a wonderful experience for them. However, since most boys are not used to having their own space separate from an all-womyn environment, it can be an adjustment for them”

“You will need to bring an adequate supply of any medication your child uses, and you must administer it yourself. We are not able to administer medication on your behalf. Additionally, any dietary supplements you bring for your son will be placed in a kitchen cooler. No food is allowed in tents for many reasons”
It Looks like the womyn’s music fest IS going to happen again this year.

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dhanu July 18, 2012 at 04:13

Latest capture of lilithfair.com on archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20110313165459/http://lilithfair.com/

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Jacko July 18, 2012 at 12:05

@ Will:

“Use the bible to determine whether the church is true or not. Most likely the true church cuts across all denominations and divisions of christianity and not merely bound together institutionally.”

Sola scriptura – the idea that only the Bible counts – is a fallacy. Church tradition is no less important than the Bible; Church tradition is rooted in the Bible anyway. The Holy Spirit [which is equal with the other two components of God] has been actively guiding the Church for 2,000 years. Besides, the decision as to what books should be included in the Bible and which shouldn’t was made by – wait for it: the Catholic Church!!!

There’s nothing wrong with the Communion of Saints. The Saints were exceptionally good people and they have a privileged place in heaven. Because they have that privileged place, there’s nothing wrong with praying to them. It’s sort of like the organization of a police force. You don’t always have to take up an issue with the Chief of Police [God]. You can go to one of his deputies instead [the Saints].

As for your problem with Catholic veneration of Mary, it is fundamentally based on the Bible. Just look at the wonderful words of the Magnificat [Luke 1: 46-55]:

My soul doth magnify the Lord.
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid;
for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Because he that is mighty,
hath done great things to me;
and holy is his name.
And his mercy is from generation unto generations,
to them that fear him.

Besides, Mary is the ultimate woman. She represents all of the best female traits [e.g. selflessness, charity, caring, nurturing, demure, loving, following, etc.] while possessing none of the worst female traits [e.g. narcissism, selfishness, acquisitiveness, pettiness, nastiness, shit-testing, head-games, emotional roller-coaster, hypergamy, etc.].

Mary is thus of crucial importance in Christianity because she is the model of good behavior for all women to follow. Since our society is no longer religious and women no longer seek to emulate Mary, most of our women are not worthy of men’s time and attention. This is why our society is going down the tubes.

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Kevin T. Jenkins July 18, 2012 at 19:48

I’m surprised no one in the comments here has mentioned Paul Washer yet -the Calvinist pastor who did the marriage-is-100/0-ration spiel at the end of the Driscoll rant. Jay Dyer did a hilarious parody of him here -it’s really quite funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Munfex51yxM

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Chris July 22, 2012 at 23:17

Downgraded anon sex

This video is a crock. It lifts Driscoll’s comments out of context. You should be ashamed for posting it.

1. Bill found it, someone else made it.
2. The person preaching is a heretic. How DARE he say such things to the SONS OF GOD. Have I made my point?
3. Oh I have not. Well, I am not so full of bullshit to say that the Holy Spirit is speaking as I am typing. He is, the blasphemer.

If you have any understanding of Calvinism, you understand that men are totally depraved. The only good we do is by the grace of God, and the institution of marriage is one of those places where this is worked out.

Our prayers are always hindered. For we fall continually. But in Christ we can have reconcilation and peace.

Now, that is for men and women. Both are fallen, and both are accountable.

I’ll let my Catholic friends hit you with the Thomistic analysis, but that is equally blunt — your gender is not a pass.

That preacher needs to consider his ways, and repent. Himself.

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bruce payne July 24, 2012 at 15:17

Just wanna let everyone know I’ve listened to many of Driscoll’s past sermon’s and I can tell y’all he actually HAS taken the women to task for their childishness, brattiness, and yes, for riding the carousel. That’s what drew me to like the guy’s style cuz I’m telling you, he’s in a microscopic minority of preacher who’ll say anything that’ll offend women.

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Anonymous April 22, 2013 at 19:11

It’s funny how Christianity is getting the blame for ‘feminizing’ the West when it was one of the religions rallied against as being too patriarchal and controlling over women.

1 Timothy 2
9Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,

10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Proverbs 31
3Do not give your strength to women,
Or your ways to that which destroys kings.

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ExCOG July 19, 2014 at 10:41

I think in large part, it is a matter of young men being given to questioning /defying authority. It’s certainly deserved; considering the rampant sexual abuse in churches, it’s a wonder that more women aren’t also dropping out.

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Berg_on_Pedophilia

http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

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