Thought of the Day

by W.F. Price on July 10, 2012

I’ve been dwelling on the concept of male spaces for the last day or so (and intend to keep it on my mind for a while), and I came up with an idea concerning the gamer/PUA community that’s a bit counterintuitive, but I think probably on target.

When some people think of PUA and game communities, writers, and practitioners, they write them off as “pussy-beggars” or overly obsessed with women. However, it occurred to me that the seduction and game communities are about as overwhelmingly male as they get. There is not one single female who has the slightest bit of credibility as a PUA (For obvious reasons), and I think this explains a good part of the allure of the culture.

PUA/Game is a re-emergence of the hunter/warrior societies of the past, and brings men together in a common purpose. Not all men approve of the purpose, but there’s no doubt that it’s an overwhelmingly male endeavor, in which men cooperate and compete to achieve a goal.

As much as some deplore the results of successful Game, there’s an astonishing level of altruism amongst the proponents and adherents. There’s nothing men compete for and fight over more than women, but here we have a community of men helping each other in the pursuit of finding satisfaction with a female. I would suggest that men see it for what it is, and take heart in the fact that even when stripped of all legal privileges and placed in a socially subordinate position, men band together and help each other achieve their goals.

{ 147 comments… read them below or add one }

Eric July 10, 2012 at 17:16

Price:
If they weren’t preoccupied with appeasing women and validating female sexual superiority, it might be a valid point.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 44 Thumb down 38
Zorro July 10, 2012 at 17:51

@Eric:

If you read any of the classic Game texts, it is clear that “appeasing” women is the last thing they attempt to do. Any kind of statement or activity that appeases women–and, yes, I do know what the word means–is counterproductive. Game is not about pussy begging; it is about turning women into cock-beggars, and not only does it work, it’s rather fun and not terribly difficult.

Morgan Freeman said it best: “You don’t chase women. You let them chase you.”

Validating female sexual superiority? Um, wrong. Read a book on female hypergamy in the animal kingdom. It is the male who carries the superior genetic code, and the females compete for him. Chapter 2 of The Woman Racket by Steve Moxon explains why the male of the species is responsible for the survival of all higher animal species. We are the genetic test filter. The female is nothing more than an egg and an incubation system.

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Eric July 10, 2012 at 17:57

Zorro:
‘Appeasing women is the last thing the attempt to do.’

In feminist culture, women believe themselves to have a monopoly on sex. Having sex with them validates that feminist premise.

‘Female hypergamy in the animal kingdom’

It may be true in the animal kingdom and with non-feminist women; but nobody is seriously going to argue that women, in our culture, choose anybody but the LEAST fit males for sex and reproduction. Hypo-gamy maybe; but they almost never ‘go up.’

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 22
Zorro July 10, 2012 at 18:06

Women believe themselves to have a monopoly on sex?

A monopoly? They’re the only things men want to fuck? Seriously?

Care to elaborate on this monopoly concept?

…they almost never ‘go-up’? If, in their mind, they weren’t going up, they wouldn’t spread their legs.

Incidentally, there are so many women who call themselves feminist and who have preposterously different views on life, children, jobs, men and relationships, you could populate a zoo with examples of each.

It is dangerously easy to over-generalize when talking about feminists. Just like with Christians; there are bizarre numbers of differing views.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 12
Eric July 10, 2012 at 18:20

Zorro:
‘Care to elaborate on this monopoly concept?’

Anglo-American culture is saturated with it. Female sexuality is worshipped here like the Holy Grail. Just turn on any media production and the ‘pursuit of the almighty vagina’ is the central theme.

And, of course, the feminised women strictly pass and encourage laws against men seeking any sexual outlet besides themselves. IMBRA and VAWA are great examples; fake ‘statuatory’ crimes; false rape and harassment; laws against pornography and sex toys—all are a form of ‘sexual protectionism’ to uphold the Anglobitch monopoly.

‘If they weren’t going up, they would never spread their legs.’

On the contrary, my friend. Contrast the sexual and reproductive successes of any typical dyfunctional street thug with any Game/PUA practitioner and you’ll see just how interested women really are in ‘the bigger, better deal’!

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Szebran July 10, 2012 at 18:39

Eric
“If they weren’t preoccupied with appeasing women and validating female sexual superiority, it might be a valid point”
Zorro
“it is clear that “appeasing” women is the last thing they attempt to do.”

I think both statements are true. Different “Gamers” advocate different strategies. Some are white knight wuses but others actually try to help guys avoid being abused and used by women.

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Huck Finn July 10, 2012 at 18:45

My only interest in Game would be to protect myself and to use it to manipulate and control women though not with any sexual intent or interest. Gamers or PUA can still get the call of a false rape allegation made against them, can still be held financially responsible for a child, and can still catch STDs. I’d prefer the quiet male space of the deep woods.

Women do not create life. God or nature creates and gives life. The female biology system gives birth. Without the male sperm a woman’s uterus is simply an unproductive garden lacking seeds. So far, the human egg can be cloned in labs though the sperm cannot yet (if ever) be cloned. Sperm is The Human Life Force.

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Eric July 10, 2012 at 18:48

Szebran:
It’s the White Knight wusses I have an especial problem with; and also with Gamesters who try to claim that Game is a panacea or what defines the MRM. I realize there are some who use it to help men avoid being used and abused by women.

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Pirran July 10, 2012 at 18:51

I certainly welcome this post. I think the MRA / PUA battles are an absurdity that get in the way of overcoming obstacles that face us all.

I don’t have a panglossian view of a future rapprochement between all Game and MRA / MGTOW exponents, but I think Game is a valid approach to life if you’re under 25-30 and just want to get laid. Yes, there are dangers inherent in that (which ideally most would take more account of), but if I was 21 or 22 again, those communities would be a life-line.

What we need is more Game exponents to warn others of the very real dangers that exist (FRA’s, DNA requirements (in extremis)). Of course, many exponents of Game would suggest that is the complete responsibility of the practitioner and you’re on your own, buddy, but I think there’s an element of nihilism in that which doesn’t help their own cause.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 5
Eric July 10, 2012 at 18:59

Pirran:
‘I think Game is a valid approach to life if you’re under 25-30 and want to get laid.’

Why encourage young men to reward feminised women with sex?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 13
continent July 10, 2012 at 19:01

You stole my thunder; besides, they give men bad name and reputation.
Huck Finn July 10, 2012 at 18:45
My only interest in Game would be to protect myself and to use it to manipulate and control women though not with any sexual intent or interest. Gamers or PUA can still get the call of a false rape allegation made against them, can still be held financially responsible for a child, and can still catch STDs. I’d prefer the quiet male space of the deep woods.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Highwasp July 10, 2012 at 19:01

I have read recently where the spearhead bloggers have knocked musicians – well as a professional drummer for 30 years I can say the accomplishment of being a great musician is a 99% exclusively male world. Can’t fake a good solo, can’t fake a great sound or song, everyone knows when they hear good music and they know when it’s mediocre or worse… but professional, live performing musicians who know how to play are almost exclusively comprised of men – mainly because it takes thousands of hours of preparation to become a great musician . This ability can’t be faked.

Women can’t fake being a great musician and that’s why when you see a woman on stage she is 99% of the time a singer who might be able to dance. She gets by. I know there are couple of women performers who actually play, write and sing but that’s a very small percent of the total males who dominate the field.

Learning to master music is something the wommenz don’t have time, patience, motivation, inclination or even the ability to commit to. They feel that they don’t have to work for their recognition as they are relying on being a ‘genetic celebrity’ based solely on their appearance and simply by walking in the room they expect adulation… yes, read
Steve Moxon for more on that.

When I go to rehearsal and performances I am with a group of men every time. The camaraderie of playing with great musicians is a affirmation of male achievement and capability. Being in a few bands here in northern CA is like being in a men’s that women don’t even want to try and infiltrate because they know they’ll look bad trying. Women hate to look bad and don’t have the time, inclination or ability to compete with us male musicians.

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Highwasp July 10, 2012 at 19:03

like being in a men’s Club…

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freebird July 10, 2012 at 19:06

I’m absolutely double minded on the game issue.
There is no question it’s valid insight into the female mindset and has great coping mechanisms for those driven by emotion rather than logic.
But is hard for me to pander to that mindset.
Nonetheless,game is a huge red pill,and I do think young men should study it and decide for themselves if they want to use it offensively rather than defensively.
For good defense it’s required reading.
As or the whole idea of male solidarity inside the gamer community,I have no idea.
I had thought if two gamers were competing for the same female they would also marginalize and label the other fellow in order to “win.”
The cooperation online costs nothing,it’s the real life experiences that matter.
Often in real life scenarios other males are lumped into one of two categories,wingman or cockblocker?
Or perhaps the infamous AMOG style oneupmanship that can lead to blows..

In theory,(solidarity) maybe,in practice,probably not.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
Rocco July 10, 2012 at 19:15

IMO pussybeggers are mangina’s like The Good Boy Project and entire congress of the US.

Game is how MGTOW relate to women without getting ripped off or otherwise abused.

For a truley equal and loving relationship, however, you have to GTHO.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3
Pirran July 10, 2012 at 19:16

@Eric

“Why encourage young men to reward feminised women with sex?”

Young guys want to get laid (a lot). To ignore this reality is to ignore the existence of the gaming community in general and male sexuality in particular. Feminized women are the vast majority (even in the Churchian community); game grew up (partly) as a response to that and partly just to help young guys get laid.

To ignore reality is futile; trying to make Game “smarter” seems a perfectly valid aim to me. To that end, opening up a discourse with all elements of the manosphere can only help.

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Big Un's July 10, 2012 at 19:22

I agree with this somewhat. However, prominent Gamers in the past have

1. Expressed gratitude and support for Feminism

2. Used Feminist shaming language against MRAs/MGTOWs

3. Claimed that only Beta males need to worry about things like false rape accusations, cuckolding, oops pregnancies, or divorce slaughterhouses.

4. Encouraged unprotected sex on one-night-stands.

Obviously, any of this thinking is antithetical to any notion of the brotherhood of man.

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troll king July 10, 2012 at 19:23

The thing I like and find hilarious about game is one thing and one thing only.

Not one mangina, or socon or religious conservative or brother or father hates Game/PUA more than….*drum roll please*….

Women as a group.

The few women who claim to like or preach PUA are still anti-PUA. All you have to do is look at Susan Walsh of Hooking Up Smart to realize this.

Her entire MO is based around PUA 2.0. Otherwise known as turning Game/PUA tactics back around against men and educating women on how better to manipulate and Game men. She was initially horrified by it and then became fascinated by it and now preaches her fucked up version of it in the hopes of “helping young women navigate the hook up culture” when in reality she is trying to take the bite out of it or wrestle the power of PUA back into the hands of women as a group.

Feminists, as part of group woman, hate PUA even more than socons like Susan Walsh. Several feminists cover it on a semi weekly basis, others outright attack it and other have tried to co-opt it and colonize it (like they do with the MRM, see The Good Men Project and NSWATM).

Ultimately it doesn’t matter what women as a group think because men are waking up and building their own way. PUA is simply an extension of MGTOW. PUA allows men to have or not have relationships and sex on their terms and their terms only, fuck what women have to say about it or how they feel about it…cause there is always another HB 10 to fuck and chuck.

PUA really does represent the re-emergence of a male oriented space. The only problem is that women, acting like the collectivist parasites they are, are now attempting to knock down this emergent male space and colonize it with their ideas (see again feminist oriented game/pua) which do not have the best interests or benefits of men at heart, if considered at all.

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will July 10, 2012 at 19:24

@Eric

If women are so feminised why are they so masculine especially the feminists or at least trying to act macho? Feminine women submit to men who is Lord and Master over them.

Game is paradoxical that by refusing to let women control you or master you. Instead by dominating or mastering her(which involves the opposite of supplication and pussy begging ) she ends up attracted to you . Game like for me and many others a pathway to the MRM especially if you slip MRA material into a guide for game like Gary Brodsky does for instance. But of course it depends on the PUA.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6
Eric July 10, 2012 at 19:24

Pirran:
I disagree totally. Young men don’t think about sex any more or less than any other normal male. What they need to be taught is sexual discipline and not PUA schmaltz that encourages them to lower themselves to the level of Anglo-American Slut Culture for the ‘experience’ of 5 minutes in bed that could likely end in disaster for them.

A lot of younger men are proficient with the Internet; teach them how to meet foreign girls and have relationships with them instead—that’s a lot safer.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 23
TFH July 10, 2012 at 19:32

It is amazing how critics of Game are in absolute, total denial that Game has any value in LTRs/marriages.

But that is because 80% of men (and 99% of women) just cannot ever, ever grasp Game. It requires a level of outside-the-box thinking that is beyond some people.

Anyway, at Dalrock’s, commenter Cadders had a great comment on how Game not just improved his marriage, but even his material living standard.

Separately, Roosh had a great list of ’8 Signs You Are a Game Denialist’. This article has left the anti-Game crowd stumped.

Now, there are a couple of aspects of Game that I could criticize, but the denialists don’t make those arguments. They instead make arguments full of logical holes, that reveal their ignorance.

The two main arguments I see are :

1) Arguments against having relationships with women (or American women specifically), which might have some merit, but are NOT arguments against Game. They are a different argument altogether.

2) Arguments that seek to minimize the scope of the subject of Game down to a fraction of what it is, and recommend an ‘alternative’, which is just another part of Game.

Sort of like saying “Don’t study math, study algebra instead!!” (after defining mathematics down to just arithmetic).

Most anti-Game arguments fall into these two misrepresentations.

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troll king July 10, 2012 at 19:33

OT.

Mr. Mantitties(manboobz.com) has been looking for “misogineeeee” so much that he found a MRA brony(bro-My Little Pony Friendship is Magic) fan and decided to make fun of him and mock him.

The thing is that it turns out that this MRA brony, who was fuckin hilarious if you ask me, was nothing more than a troll.

Oh feminists, sometimes you make me literally laugh out loud.

Seriously, check it out. The MRA brony was literally having me LOL.

His name is Epic Atheist Brony .
http://manboobz.com/2012/07/10/clop-clop-clopping-along-with-epic-atheist-brony-mra-extraordinaire/#comments

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Pirran July 10, 2012 at 19:39

@Eric

“A lot of younger men are proficient with the Internet; teach them how to meet foreign girls and have relationships with them instead—that’s a lot safer.”

Or can end up just as disastrous. In the UK a number of foreign women (particularly East European) latched on to a provision allowing them to claim rape and stay in the country. I don’t know if this exists in the US, but there are dangers inherent in ANY form of relationship. I think teaching young men to be “smarter” about Game and any other form of relationship is to be applauded, but you would probably disagree. The irony is, I don’t think our positions are that far apart, which is precisely why I think the whole MRA / PUA phony war is so, well, phony.

I’d disagree that young men don’t think about sex more than those over 35. I certainly did. I’d certainly agree that teaching men discipline in all aspects of life is patently useful.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 4
Eric July 10, 2012 at 19:43

THF:
’80% of men and 99% of women…cannot ever grasp Game’

So, since it’s the exclusive franchise of a few of you {ahem} ‘superior intellects’, how is it useful for anybody else?

And, aside from that, how do you account for the fact that intelligence is one of the LAST qualities women seek in men—preferring dysfunctional retards on noticable scale—doesn’t that put your Game Geniuses at a great disadvantage?

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Eric July 10, 2012 at 19:49

Pirran:
That UK law sounds very similar to VAWA here.

My point was that men need to realize that they are (and deserve) better than the kinds of women that feminist Anglo-American culture offers. Teaching them to be discriminating is just as important as learning sexual techniques IOW, quality not quantity is what matters.

A lot of Game guys and I do mostly disagree around the margins: the problem is that Game also has a strong extremist element among its practitioners who need to be called out by the more responsible Game proponents.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
Eric July 10, 2012 at 20:02

Troll King:

OT—yeah, Manboob is such a moron. I LOL’d as hard as you did over that one.

Do you think he’ll post a retraction tomorrow? NOT! ROFL

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
Pirran July 10, 2012 at 20:13

@ Eric

“A lot of Game guys and I do mostly disagree around the margins: the problem is that Game also has a strong extremist element among its practitioners who need to be called out by the more responsible Game proponents.”

I’d certainly agree with that, but you could say the same about some MRA’s. There’s an element of antisemitism and racism on The Spearhead and other MRA blogs that seems patently counter-productive. I’m sure as hell no bleeding-heart mangina calling for a collective group hug, but being against affirmative action shouldn’t entail being opposed to a particular race that may benefit from them. Call out the hypocrites, but don’t align with racist bigots as a result. Being pro your own race, country, social group or chess club shouldn’t entail hating everyone else; that’s always seemed a bizarre (and self-defeating) reaction to me.

I’d certainly agree that we deserve better than the wimmin that radical feminism has brought forth (and inculcated further) and teaching young guys to be wary (whether game practitioners or no) is all to the good, I could just do without the frothing hate, that’s all.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 7
Eric July 10, 2012 at 20:21

Pirran:
I agree that I find some of the racist elements problematic too. For example, none of them seem to want to address the fact that white Anglo-American women are responsible more than any other factor for the decline of that cultural demographic. What they advocate is perpetuating the white race without white females—totally impossible.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 6
Pirran July 10, 2012 at 20:54

@Eric

“I agree that I find some of the racist elements problematic too. For example, none of them seem to want to address the fact that white Anglo-American women are responsible more than any other factor for the decline of that cultural demographic. What they advocate is perpetuating the white race without white females—totally impossible.”

Which is why you have these bizarre temporary alliances between White-Knight, White-Power Nationalists and Rad-Fem’s against MRA’s (not to mention Trad-Cons, So-Cons and MSM feminists). There’s a collective denial of reality that can only end with the current economic system and its incestuous patronage (not so far away, now).

When the markets wake up to the fact that you just can’t pay the bills anymore, things have to change. The beneficiaries go down kicking and screaming (pace Greece), but in the end reality can’t be denied.

No more subsidizing state, no more rad-fem money tree magic.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
Eric July 10, 2012 at 21:03

Pirran:
The temporary alliances may be also be superficial.

There is a strong tendency between all those seemingly disparite groups and a common objective. Note for example that a lot of Radfems are huge supporters of eugenics. They promote sperm-banks for white women and abortion for minorities and third-world women, among other things. This has the objective of raising the sexual ‘market value’ of the white feminists by eliminating competition from other races/cultures.

The same is true with Socon feminists. Behind their puritanical sexual mores is the same pedestalization of the female common to Radfems. Both of which, in turn, appeals to the White Knights, who expect sexual favors from ‘superior women’ for their loyalty.

It’s interesting that when the Socons come into power they never defund feminist policy or repeal feminist laws. The connection between these forces isn’t apparent on the surface, but it does exist.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3
Pro-male/Anti-feminist Tech July 10, 2012 at 21:15

This is true, but there certainly have been plenty of attempts to make a watered down form of game/PUA that would supposedly be “safe for women”. There have been women who have tried to get involved with game/PUA (not as actual PUAs obviously) for this purpose.

I have written about this subject on my blog calling it game 2.0.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6
Pirran July 10, 2012 at 21:15

@Eric

Patronage consummates further patronage…..Everybody Happy !!!

(except those paying…..but they’re all deadbeat dads.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Rob July 10, 2012 at 22:07

TFH, you aren’t saying anything that Otto Weininger didn’t say already back in in the turn of the twentieth century.

Have you even read him?

Maybe if you did, you would understand why things are the way they are… and always have been. Read the author’s preface.

You certainly aren’t the first genius to haunt these parts.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3
evilwhitemalempire July 11, 2012 at 00:34

It is dangerously easy to over-generalize when talking about feminists. Just like with Christians; there are bizarre numbers of differing views.

———————
to be exact

one for each feminist

one for each anti-feminist

one for each neutral

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
evilwhitemalempire July 11, 2012 at 00:39

Huck Finn July 10, 2012 at 18:45
My only interest in Game would be to protect myself and to use it to manipulate and control women though not with any sexual intent or interest.
———————-
use knowledge for wisdom instead

big thumbs up

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Sun July 11, 2012 at 00:48

“As much as some deplore the results of successful Game, there’s an astonishing level of altruism amongst the proponents and adherents. There’s nothing men compete for and fight over more than women, but here we have a community of men helping each other in the pursuit of finding satisfaction with a female. ”

I think this is false. because it fails to recognize that most of these men do not know each other nor are attracting the exact same woman.

If the situation was more personal rather then advice over the internet (not to mention anonymity) we would more likely see something different (although friends/family may help another friend in hooking up).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
evilwhitemalempire July 11, 2012 at 00:52

highwasp
Women hate to look bad and don’t have the time, inclination or ability to compete with us male musicians.
—————–
video games are nearly the same way

basically any activity involving extensive use of the right brain (visual, musical, etc.) is a pretty good female filter

btw this has a lot to do with why feminists are trying to take over the gaming industry

e.g. like this cunt
http://www.youtube.com/user/feministfrequency?feature=results_main

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
Sun July 11, 2012 at 00:58

“It is dangerously easy to over-generalize when talking about feminists. Just like with Christians; there are bizarre numbers of differing views.”

Yes, there is difference among the various forms Feminism (Waves); and unfortunately, the Spearhead doesn’t cover the topic for some reason.

However, just like Christians, these differences aren’t all that steep nor are they holey separable. They are basically the same at the core (although Christianity due to the chronology diverges more deeply).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
walking in hell2 July 11, 2012 at 01:58

The only “game” American men should be playing is figuring out how to avoid any unnecessary contact with American females. Next, American men should be figuring out how they can expat and retire, if possible.

Any type of game trying to pick up American women is bad for two reasons:
1) American women are ugly inside and outside and therefore, not worth picking up (would you work hard for a sandwich that looks and tastes like shit?).
2) Any type of pickup effort carries with it the risk of a false rape allegation, domestic violence allegation, etc.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
MarcusAurelius July 11, 2012 at 02:00

I do feel that game while it has its merits, does pedestalize a woman’s sexuality and in turn affirms the current sexual market place. We have to keep in mind that game itself is a REACTIONARY movement. It is not creating a new environment, nor is it changing the rules. It is simply an adaptation. It is also an ILLUSION of male power.

Game reminds me of the mating habit of peacocks. The male peacocks puff their feathers out and strut around the female, and while this may help the well groomed male’s chances, IT IS STILL ULTIMATELY THE FEMALE WHO CHOOSES. So it is with game.

We know this to be true because even the supposed masters will tell you the failure rates are much higher than the success rates. You will be rejected quite a number of times before you land one hook up.

So I say the better idea for men would be to bypass game entirely, save the money they would be wasting in bars and clubs night after night and travel overseas to meet women of quality and in which the peacockery of game is no longer even necessary. Game only speaks to how poor the quality of western women really is. For example, if you used a concept like negging on a cute girl in a village in say Vietnam or Thailand, she would truly think you were insulting her. Any woman who needs a ‘few witty insults’ to get her opened up….is a few swords short of an arsenal.

You are far better off pursuing women with whom you can be yourself around, and who will respect you as a person, rather than some sham flamboyance.

Trust me, once you go to another (non-feminist) country, game will seem like a complete waste of time, effort and money.

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Opus July 11, 2012 at 02:36

I must confess, that I am always impressed by Eric’s single handed attacks on Game and its proponents, not withstanding their impressive advocacy of their subject, but I have always had one major problem with Game: I have not got the faintest idea what it is, or how it is practised, or why. It is like the Arabian Phoenix: a bird much spoken of but little seen.

I know it is about seducing women, but those men who seem best at seduction would not recognise a manual on the subject if it stood up and hit them. My wing-men are worse than useless, and frankly tend to get in the way of my seductions. Worse: Those men who seek to practise Game, and who are unsuccessful are then told that they are doing it wrong, fairly much as a sinner is told by his Pastor that he simply just does not love God enough if he continues to sin, as if their can be no defect with the package, only the practitioners woeful skills.

Clearly, with women, attitude is important, but no less so than muscles – which seems to be cat-nip for females; look are useful but not always essential. Even so, one can only seduce what is available, and frankly most women are just not either sufficiently appealing or interesting, so why bother, and the interesting ones are so difficult that one is always in danger of some false allegation.

Perhaps Game is like Billiards: the trick is to get the cue ball into position for the next shot i.e. to get away from the previous woman, but unless one is a long-distance truck-driver than can be difficult.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3
AfOR July 11, 2012 at 03:09

Y’all anti gamer crowd remind me of fucking alcoholics and addicts who are being shown a general path that leads to an individual cure.

But y’all are scared shitless at what lies at the end of the path, so you start whining about how the path is a cock of shit and lined by bars and opium dens.

Yet to meet a man fucked over HARD by the wimminz with an FRA or had EVERYTHING taken from him have any problem with the whole ethos of game.

PS, Just because someone starts a blog about game, doesn’t mean that that is what it is, same as feminazis and the good men project, things aren’t always bout what they claim to be bout….

FWIW I don’t characterize what I write about on my blog as game / pua

I characterize it as a fucking survival manual, a manual that you can use to achieve many varied a different ends, one of which happens to be getting cunt for zero effort and expenditure, but always always always overlaid is watch out when getting that cunt you don’t slide into “this bitch is different”

The “man only space” that disappeared 20 years ago that you should all literally be shittting yourself with fear at the loss of is the trade apprentice.

I talk bout that on my blog too, but the pua bashers only wanna talk about me pedestalising wimminz by fucking them…

FWIW, I decided to run my own blog, because it becomes a guess what, a man only space, but one where I can say anything I fucking please, which would not be the case were I to limit my output to submitting articles to the spearhead or commenting here, just because this isn’t my place and it isn’t my dime, it’s Bill’s….

For example, from a relevant post;
http://wimminz.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/cabbages-and-kings/

“I may be in a mere flat, but I have my workshop out back, nobody can repo any of my shit or vehicles, I am sat directly in front of my paid for giant screen TV, in the exact ideal viewing position, with my paid for quality speakers on quality stands again with the ideal stereo image focusing on the exact spot where I am sitting, the small table by my side is in the ideal and comfortable place for me, and while my income is low, I can live within my means, and have as much free time to do my own shit as I please.”

That is man only space.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 11
Turbo the Drycleaner July 11, 2012 at 03:20

The only reason to be an MRA but not a PUA is if you truly do not want to ever have sex with women. Not having sex with women because it validates them is stupid. Thats like becoming a vegetarian because you dont want any animals to be killed. Everyone else will still eat meat and you not eating any doesnt even put a dent in the ‘culture of carnivores’.

There is no way men will ever abstain in large numbers. Men have been killing themselves for better shots with women, whether slowly in hazardous jobs or quickly by playing captain save-a-ho, for eons. even the fear of death is nothing before mens collective desire for sex.

Abstinence doesnt make you a loser any more than hitting on girls makes you a ‘pussy beggar’. Different men will handle the circling of the drain in different ways. But youd be a fool if you thought either was some sort of mutually assured destruction that will undo feminism or somehow stick it to those ‘feminised’ women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5
walking in hell2 July 11, 2012 at 03:42

You are wasting time and degrading yourself if you are preoccupied with seducing American women. Not to mention that there is the possibility of a false rape allegation, a false domestic abuse charge, or a pregnancy.

I would rather rather waste time trying to seduce a hefty bag full of garbage, than a toxic and rotten American woman.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
Art Vandelay July 11, 2012 at 04:47

Why encourage young men to reward feminised women with sex?

Sex is not a reward for a woman, sex is a reward for a man. Commitment is the reward men can give out if he so chooses, and many part way to easy with that gift.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3
Gilgamesh July 11, 2012 at 04:52

Speaking of male only spaces, I found a the posters on some shitty fanfiction forum (surprise surprise, the people with enough spare time on their hands to write shitty stories about animes also happen to be feminists) gloating about how Tom Martin’s discrimination suit against the London School of Economics got thrown out of court, which led to this gem:
“If Mr. Martin wanted a ‘men-only’ space in which to work out, all he had to do was go to the gym and be That Guy. You know, the one vaguely creepy guy who instantly makes any space unsafe for women, thus creating the need for designated “women only” times/spaces?

Seriously though what a whiny douchebag.”

Yep, complaining about how men can’t keep women out of their locker rooms when women get elite universities all to themselves = just a whiny douchebag. I feel so privileged to be expected to protect women like the one who wrote that. Also love how being ‘vaguely creepy’ (what the fuck does that even mean) magically makes anywhere physically dangerous.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
migu July 11, 2012 at 04:52

Meh? Game whatever.

I have my house, my cars, my garage, and the rest of my shit. Amazingly enough, I mention my house, and that’s usually all the game I need.

Why I think the whole hoop jumping is worthless

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4
Buddy Guy July 11, 2012 at 04:56

@ Marcus Aurileus
“You are far better off pursuing women with whom you can be yourself around, and who will respect you as a person, rather than some sham flamboyance.”

Furthermore, I’m better off pursuing male-spaces where I’m not mocked for failing to match every facet of my physical movement and speech to a woman’s expectations. Gamer: “happiness is so beta.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
greyghost July 11, 2012 at 05:34

Migu
You are a beta male that has shrugged. We get another 30 million men like that and we have a whole lot of childless spinsters.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Professor Mentu July 11, 2012 at 05:49

Every man runs game. You either run it efficiently or you don’t. Never confuse the frequency of the tactics deployed with the tactics themselves.

This is an excellent article.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3
canam July 11, 2012 at 06:23
Rocco July 11, 2012 at 06:23

OT

Obama is re-elected say goodbye to STEM fields….the pussybeggers are selling out the US for some snatch:

Male quota’s in science under title IX:

http://www.openmarket.org/2012/07/10/quotas-limiting-male-science-enrollment-the-new-liberal-war-on-science/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
migu July 11, 2012 at 06:24

Shrugology. I was taught by the master.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
Art Vandelay July 11, 2012 at 06:25

Speaking of male only spaces, I found a the posters on some shitty fanfiction forum (surprise surprise, the people with enough spare time on their hands to write shitty stories about animes also happen to be feminists) gloating about how Tom Martin’s discrimination suit against the London School of Economics got thrown out of court

So, what were you doing in that particular forum? ;)

“If Mr. Martin wanted a ‘men-only’ space in which to work out, all he had to do was go to the gym and be That Guy. You know, the one vaguely creepy guy who instantly makes any space unsafe for women, thus creating the need for designated “women only” times/spaces?[..]”

How does coming off as “creepy” make a space unsafe?

Kind of reminds me of the US Gym chain where they throw out serious bodybuilders because they make others uncomfortable. Funnily enough they call it the “no judgement zone”.

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Art Vandelay July 11, 2012 at 06:25

sorry, screwed up my blockquote there…

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td9red July 11, 2012 at 07:01

Question

What exactly is game? I see comments about it all the time, but, I really haven’t done any reading about exactly what it is. My limited understanding of PUAs/Gamers is that they will do, say (lie) anything they can to get a women into bed for a one night stand. Is this understanding wrong?

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td9red July 11, 2012 at 07:09

@Huck Finn

Exactly, the opposite of what you say is true. They can produce sperm, but, they have not yet been able to produce an egg. Note, both a woman and a man would still be needed to produce either as stems cells from a man are needed to produce the sperm and stem cells from a woman would be needed to produce the egg.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8682142/Stem-cells-used-to-make-artificial-sperm.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7
td9red July 11, 2012 at 07:27

Some seem to believe that the answer to the American woman problem is to date women from oversees. As a women, I tell you this will not help. Once you bring her to the US, your foreign woman will become an American woman. It’s just a matter of time. Once she starts meeting and befriending American women and starts watching American TV she will become an American woman with an accent. Now you just have an angry chick that you can’t understand. In fact, becoming an American women is the goal of many of these foreign women who are trying to meet American men. Furthermore, if you marry and reproduce with a foreign woman you run the high risk that after divorce she will go back to her country and takes the kids, at which point you will truly never see them again. I highly recommend reproducing (if you want children) only with people from your own country, what ever country that may be.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 11
Buddy Guy July 11, 2012 at 07:28

@td9red
“I know nothing about them, yet have an opinion about them.”

Fuck off, feminist.

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dragnet July 11, 2012 at 07:40

@ TFH

Great comment.

@ Welmer

“However, it occurred to me that the seduction and game communities are about as overwhelmingly male as they get. There is not one single female who has the slightest bit of credibility as a PUA (For obvious reasons), and I think this explains a good part of the allure of the culture.”

Nailed it.

I think the RooshVForum is a great example of this. I know only two women who have ever posted there—the other hundreds of participants are men. One part of the forum is about game, but there are hundreds of other threads talking about lots of other topics of interest to men like jobs, travel, lifestyle, social commentary, etc from a masculine point of view. The views of women are, thankfully, non-existent.

An androcentric oasis in a gynocentric desert.

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Firepower July 11, 2012 at 07:49

Price

…it occurred to me that the seduction and game communities are about as overwhelmingly male as they get.

It’s blatantly obvious. I have lots of women posting on my blog. Lots on my blogroll, too. I’ve a draft entitled “why pua will fail” and what you noticed is a key reason: Never trust a “pua” that doesn’t have women around.

After all, the WHOLE idea of game to get women in the closest proximity.

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Keyster July 11, 2012 at 08:04

While the PUA/Game community might one of the only true male spaces left – – it’s not really a “male space” if all they do is obsess over
how best to score with women. A group of men who gather to do nothing but talk about women (figure out what goes on inside those pretty little heads) is a fairly pathetic example of “male space” IMHO.

Speaking of male space; in other news:
Did you know that for the first time in history the USA Olympic Team has more female members on it than male? More sign ‘o the times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/london-olympics-team-usa-women-outnumber-men_n_1663450.html?utm_hp_ref=sports

Soon it will just be the Women’s Olympics.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Brosephus July 11, 2012 at 08:20

I try to learn game because if it is true then it is part and parcel of learning to live life well. As a young guy, I want to be excellent in all areas and I’m willing to learn wherever, whenever and however possible, in my opinion the concepts of game (like self- confidence and asking questions for example) are easily extrapolated to most areas of life. These types of qualities can make or break a career and be the difference between success and failure. Game may not work for you, it may not fit into your view for reality, but to me it seems that game principles are commonsensical and valuable. Viva game

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
TFH July 11, 2012 at 08:36

dragnet,

Great comment.

Thanks.

A large part of the need by women to rush into any male space (the military, video games, the ONE room in the house that he wants to furnish the way HE wants, etc.), is because when men get together, they might be producing value.

Since women are primarily about consuming the resources than men produce, their instinct compels them to seek out any place where men might be gathering, as resources that a woman can consume might be there, and she has to get there before another woman does…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5
Lara July 11, 2012 at 09:05

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 23
Taank July 11, 2012 at 09:51

There’s one thing I think everyone should bear in mind, and that’s the human tendency to pass judgment on other people’s choices. I see a lot of men jumping on soapboxes to denigrate the choices of other men, and that’s simply counterproductive to advancing the interests of all of us. The choices available to men in how to live their lives in relation to society (within the constraints of legality, obviously) are all equally valid; it falls to each individual to choose his own path, and reap the associated rewards and consequences himself. If Game works for you, practice it. If foreign women work for you, go pursue them. If living in the total absence of female company appeals to you, knock yourself out. The point is that whatever you choose, it’s your choice, and no one else has the moral authority to judge you.

If you feel that a particular approach will provide benefits to and improve the lives of other men, then by all means, advocate for it. Provide information and resources for other men to educate themselves on the available options. But dedicating your time and effort to criticizing the choices of others is pointless; men who have empowered themselves and made their lifestyle choices aren’t going to give any weight to your opinion. If you are speaking positively about the options you believe in, you’re part of the solution; if you are speaking negatively about the options you despite, you’re part of the problem. We already get plenty of criticism from across the gender divide, we don’t need any sourced from our side as well.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2
Taank July 11, 2012 at 09:53

*despise

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Opus July 11, 2012 at 09:58

@Keyster

I was trying to do some research as to my home nations olympic team, and what the Male/Female split was – but without success, however I did discover that we are sending (if that is the correct expression ) 542 athletes as opposed to your 530. This is curious seeing your population is five times larger than ours although 60 of ours were not born here, so we must have stolen them from somewhere else. Russia is sending 436 participants, China 396, Germany 391 and India only 81. The Olympic Torch passes my door next week so I will have a grandstand view of it. I have not been asked to compete. :(

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Old Guy July 11, 2012 at 10:03

I don’t get why PUAs are such a boogie man for MRAs.

The BS spouted about them here is worthy of a Dr. Phil/Oprah segment on the subject.

As with anything, when men put their heads together, they can figure out how stuff works. PUAs got together on the Internet and figured out how to get easy, meaningless sex from women and have them be happy about it. And, they mostly get it from good looking women who are not psycho-bitches, because they walk away from anything else.

I know that seems impossible, but men have always been able to do what looks impossible with some know-how and practice.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2
Peter South July 11, 2012 at 10:19

There is something pathetic and supplicating (even as they try to be non-supplicating) about bouncing off of woman after woman trying to figure out what she’ll respond to and rearranging your whole life to fit that image.

However, the point about the community and male spaces is worthy of note.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
Peter South July 11, 2012 at 10:27

I don’t get why PUAs are such a boogie man for MRAs.

I’ll tell you my problem with it. It requires that you rearrange your life to fit what women expect.

Mostly successful guys are stereotypical: the biker, the ex-con, the guido, the rapper/thug wannabe, goth, musician, total weirdo, tattoos everywhere, etc. Most have something fairly obvious going for them as well.

These are the guys who actually get girls as opposed to just making them laugh with clownish talk and going home alone. If you are a good, normal guy who wears generic/normal clothes who has integrity and refuses to join one of these groups and go out to bars and party until all hours you are out.

There are no magic lines that help you with women. There’s little routines that make them laugh but that’s bs because that’s all it does.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 5
AfOR July 11, 2012 at 10:36

@ Peter North

“I’ll tell you my problem with it. It requires that you rearrange your life to fit what women expect.”

HORSE-FUCKING-SHIT.

Where do all you jerks get off being experts in something you don’t do yourselves, and then denigrate said thing in EXACT duplicates of what would be labelled as “gaslighting” if a wimminz did it?

PUA/game whatever you want to call it, as practiced by EVERYONE I know personally, NO exceptions, is the EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE of what you claim it is.

It is refusing to rearrange ANYTHING in your life to comply with what wimminz expect, or hope for, or wish for, or anything else.

It is I will fuck you on my terms or not at all, and my terms are you get NO entry into my life whatsoever, and no interaction except the pump and dump.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6
Centaur July 11, 2012 at 10:46

Well, lets be honest here.. Game is really mostly snake oil.
I have a theory about game- and let me say right off the bat, I find it fun to participate and read it. I don’t necessarily knock most of it, as I understand the goal and desires of guys using it, and I share them myself. But as a person who loves sex and getting laid, I can say that I find almost all of it fairly useless. I do appreciate nuggets of wisdom scattered in there at times.
Gamers think they have discovered something, but the reality is that men have been talking about how to get laid since the dawn of man. Different times and different cultures required different apporaches by men to secure mates, and men have always given each other advice.
There is nothing new in Game.
I am 40 yrs old.. I heard about game late- when I was in my late 30s. By then, without Game, I had had sex on a regular basis my entire life since puberty. To speak to a Gamer, you’d think that was impossible. I had one night stands in my teens in 80s, shagged a very healthy amount of women in my 20s, and did so in my 30s, and continue to do so today. All without an iota of Game or worrying about AMOGS, Negs, Alpha/Beta or whatever the hell they are worrying about nowadays.
My theory is that Gamers are usually kids who grew up way feminized and so had a real hard time with girls. In the age of the internet, they were able to find each other and little by little a community grew up out of it. Its why Gamers are so obsessed with alpha/beta concepts, or tooting their own horns.. pretending men wothout Game are somehow losers, or pussies, or that only 1% of men can “grasp” Game. Their insecurities scream obvious and loud.
Yet, they are a good thing. They are- in a very roundabout way- giving these feminised menboys a taste of manhood they otherwise probably wouldn’t have found. And thats a good thing.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 4
greyghost July 11, 2012 at 10:56

PUA are just men that enjoy sex with women. I do not see them as maginas begging for pussy. Those guys are players. They are the cocks for the cock carousel and play a valueable role for the MRM. Like it or not those guys are where the 16 to thirty year olds are going when they shit on you for the cock carousel. Nothing will please a father more than seeing my son upset over a hypergamous slut that left him for a PUA with game rather than marry my boy and divorce him in 6 years because she was unhappy and see my boy one bad car day or lay off or injury away from being a crimminal for life.
One more thing. Male sexuality is not a bad thing. It is normal and natural and has built nations. Right now it is being demonized, all game does is allows a man with the sexual drive to get through that time period without getting trapped. A man that has a high p[uusy count and knows game (female nature) is in a better position to not be emotionally taken in by misandry. The true even of the laws of misandry in family law is that men truely do love and make full emotional commitments. Women don’t (never could, the capacity to love isn’t there, they gina tingle).
Unless you are willing to take up arms and kill this beaste the next best and I think the most effective is to drive women to vote against the misandry in their own childish and selfish interest. The reason the MRM has always failed is due to men thinking it was just a matter of apealing to womens nuturing instncts. HA ha ha ha.
I like game “use game son and fuck that pussy out of it’s fertility make that cunt work to support herself until she dies.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
Taank July 11, 2012 at 10:57

Centaur, sounds like you have plenty of self-confidence and a natural ability to appeal to the women that interest you. This is a good thing.

From what I understand, Game exists to help men who don’t have that confidence and/or natural ability improve their ability to appeal to the women that interest them. I consider this (men helping other men to advance their interests) to be a good thing as well.

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Centaur July 11, 2012 at 11:32

Taank-That is my point. I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Yes feiminism was already up and running, especially in the 80s. But here were still enough old world type men around and it was not as bad as what the kids born in the 80s and 90s have had to deal with. There also wasn’t an internet.
All this meant that everyone was a natural. You went out, you talked to girls, you naturally noticed what worked for you, most inportantly, there were still lots of space for you to explore your manhood.
All my friends found what worked for them, on their own, following the inner voice of what it was they wanted. Some of us became the Don Juan types, some of us became more the married committed types etc.. but we never called each other pussies or alpha/betas. We loved each other and respected each other as men and friends. (still they are my friends to this day- no matter what path they chose)
Now we are called “naturals”
I call BS.
I like Game, i think the blogs and the guys are cool and fun. But I really think its all overblown BS. You want to know Game? its simple. Get out there and pursue that which you desire. BE your own light. Decide for yourself how best to get that which you want.
Thats it.
A little Game theory can be a great kick in the ass for a guy who is having problems and has no real male role models to guide him. But after it becomes this whole identity it becomes a bit damaging as well.
Getting laid, is getting laid. People have been doing that for eons. No need to act like Game is some answer to the problems men face in todays America. Its not going to effect child custody, divorce laws or anything of actual consequence.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
greyghost July 11, 2012 at 11:46

Taank
That is the way I see it. That cunt looking at the pua dick is not trying to get your son in his last year of college trapped with a pregnancy.

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Darryl X July 11, 2012 at 11:54

@ Eric and Zorro -

Under a feminist regime or culture, women don’t have to chase you. They don’t have to have anything to do with you. The only relationship possible with a woman under a feminist regime is that of slave and master (she’s the master). Game or whatever is basically affirming a woman’s feelings, no matter how irrational they are (which is the case most of the time). When it is done, it enables and rewards her malignant narcissism – her addiction to power and control. She has succeeded in manipulating you. That’s what our government does. It appeases women and they get worse. Without a feminist regime, refusing to affirm a woman’s irrational feelings forces her to adopt rational feelings or she won’t survive. Under a feminist regime, refusing to affirm a woman’s irrational feelings is simply self destructive for the man. However, if you DO affirm a woman’s irrational feelings under a feminist regime, it promotes and strengthens the feminist regime and hurts yourself and other men in the long run if not the short run. Feminism is the perfect organism – its conscience exists unclouded by moral dilemma. It’s a lose-lose situation. There are no benefits to a man for either affirming or not affirming a woman’s irrational feelings under a feminist regime. That is why a feminist regime is so wrong and dangerous. It absolves women of any responsibility for their behavior. That’s the part that needs to change. The system. Not us or our relationship with women. There is only one relationship with a woman – an honest one. There is no Game or anything like that. And either that works or it doesn’t. And under a feminist regime, that seldom works.

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Centaur July 11, 2012 at 11:58

I do think Price is on to something here, btw.
I know some PUA guys here and hang with them from time to time, I also like reading the forums, even though I kind of laugh sometimes.. and I think Price hit the nail on the head as to why I enjoy doing so.
I like the all male space. The man talk etc.
Its probably why I am here on Spearhead as well.. even though I have never been married and avoided kids like the plaque. I like to think alot of it is I despise the injustice I have seen so many men suffer from the abuse of the state. But I have to admit that I like being in a community without the intrusion of women.
I also re-read my post and wish I would have worded a few things differently. I did not mean for it come across so negatively on game. I like Game and respect the guys working on it.. I just see it froma particular perspective given my experience.
Game on- or not.. Whatever you choose, good on you.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
TFH July 11, 2012 at 12:13

Peter North,

“I’ll tell you my problem with it. It requires that you rearrange your life to fit what women expect.

Completely wrong. Rather, it requires a man to do far less of this than any other way of having relationships with women.

That fits into point #1 from my comment above, July 10, 19:32.

The argument made by Peter North, is not an argument against Game at all, it is rather an argument against having interactions with women at all.

Furthermore, those advocating expatriation to get better women :
i) Isn’t that a very, very big change to your life?
ii) You still do much better with Game than without. See : RooshV.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3
TFH July 11, 2012 at 12:14

*Peter South said that, not Peter North.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
Darryl X July 11, 2012 at 12:25

@ AfOR -

Sex is addicting for approximately 50% of the population (80% women and 20% men). Because of the neurotransmitters. Even the part of the population for which it isn’t addicting, a sexual relationship if approached irresponsibly (like outside of a marriage or some kind of committed long-term relationship) is not enough to promote a healthy relationship. And it erodes the well-being of those participating. Game or PUA or whatever it is promotes irresponsible and addictive and destructive relationships because it basically manipulates women and rationalizes or justifies feminism. Men who engage in these kinds of relationships are predatory. Women are not capable of responsibility so these kinds of interactions (I’m reluctant to call them relationships) erode or compromise or corrupts them. A consensual relationship like this is applying Game or whatever is not possible with a woman – with or without feminism.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
universe July 11, 2012 at 12:26

As much as some deplore the results of successful Game, there’s an astonishing level of altruism amongst the proponents and adherents. There’s nothing men compete for and fight over more than women, but here we have a community of men helping each other in the pursuit of finding satisfaction with a female.

– From the little I’ve seen of PUA sites I find merit in not only W.F.’s assessment of game (in this regard ^) but of the ‘gamers’ themselves sharing their knowledge. If learning the framework of PU artistry is one’s goal this is one area I see where info is freely shared (and success celebrated). Can’t disparage that. Big thumb-up.

Now, (PUA) guys. Psych leverage the by-the-book feminist dummy amorally entrenched everywhere in positions of authority throwing boys and men ‘under the bus’ without invoking Jeanna (gina) ? (What’s that you say – learn game? No, one or more notches higher). You got?

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 12:32

td9rd:
If American women feel jealous that foreign women are better, the solution would to offer American men something better.

Oh, that’s right. You can’t. LOL

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 12:34

AfoR:
‘You guys remind me of alcoholics and addicts…afraid of a cure.’

That’s because the ‘cure’ is telling us to take the drug in higher dosages, and pretend to ourselves that it’s actually good for us.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
Eric July 11, 2012 at 12:40

Greyghost:
‘PUA guys are just guys who enjoy sex with women.’

The problem is that they base their self-worth on sex women—IOW, they cave in to feminist sexual empowerment.

In our feminist culture, women believe that their sexual ‘value’ makes them superior to men. Having sex with them reinforces that belief.

There’s more to sex than a physical act; there is a psychological element as well. Game/PUA teach men to delude themselves into believing that women actually desire them because they’re ‘alphas’ or whatever. That’s only way sex with feminised women can be made appealling.

It’s a total surrender to feminism, however much its proponents claim it isn’t.

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 12:44

Peter South & Darryl X:

Good points you both make. The Gamecocks totally ignore how the feminist Superiority Complex plays into all relationships with men.

Anybody who opens their eyes can see that the degenerate males whom females in our culture prefer for sex partners are anything but the ‘strong, confident alpha’ types. The Gamesters think they’re being smart, but they’re the ones being used and manipulated by the women, every time.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Ronin July 11, 2012 at 12:52

@ Lara
“I think the best thing would be for all these men who hate American women to move to other countries. The competition will increase for the men who remain. I personally prefer to share a man with other women.”

Translated from womanese- All betas (sadly the majority) can take a hike. She will gladly continue/rather share an alpha. As the saying goes, five minutes of alpha is much better than five years of beta. Also dont forget, alpha fucks with beta bucks.

@ Gilgamesh
“Also love how being ‘vaguely creepy’ (what the fuck does that even mean) magically makes anywhere physically dangerous.”

Creepy is anything that does not give her vagina the tingles/moistness.

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Keyster July 11, 2012 at 13:00

Game is a routine (or lifestyle) that leads to the conquest of vaginal access. I can’t think of anything more tedious and boring than wasting time “gaming” a bar whore with small talk and work play, just for the opportunity for sex. How often is it really worth the effort? And then what? Bragging rights with your wingman?

Game makes my head hurt.
But if that’s your thing, go for it!

John Wayne, Humphrey Bogart, Gary Cooper, James Cagney, etc. all had Game, and they didn’t need to opt into an internet training course to learn it. It’s sad that young men have to learn this synthetic masculinity vis a vis interaction with women.

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Centaur July 11, 2012 at 13:10

Eric. I have to disagree.
Whether the Gamer dances for his conquest or not makes no difference. At all. A Gamer approaches a woman, he runs his routines, he pretends and negs and all that. yes, he is calibrating his behavior to get what he wants- sex- which puts him in a subordinate position. So what? He takes her home and bangs her. Now he has what she wants, but she can’t use it against him- so long as he was smart enough not to coerce her. She cant divorce him or take his money.. she is now back to square one.. so he recovers some of his subordinate postion.
Its a wash. It means nothing. Two people had sex. Nothing changes. Laws at work don’t change. Child care laws don’t change.. whether women are in military or whatever don’t change. Nothing changes.
I keep saying it. Game has nothing to do with MRM and feminism. It changes nothing, neither helping nor hindering.
Gamers think they are saving men, MRM think Gamers are making things worse. Both are wrong. Nothing has happened of any consequence. A guy got his dick wet. A woman found a good excuse to do what she was going to do anyway- sleep around. The song remains the same.
There are some legitimate criticisms of Game, but this just isn’t really one of them. Gamers have an internal inconsistency- They believe women want sex, and they believe they are seducing women to do what they would not have done otherwise. They can’t both be true. If women want sex as much as men, they will find someone to fuck- Game or not. If Gamers have to manipulate women to have sex, then that implies women didnt want to have sex- which they claim women do.
At the end of the day, the PUA community is a tiny tiny fraction of men, yet almost all women are fucking dozens and dozens of men. They are not making a difference in anything. Women are no more slutty because of them, or chaste without them. That is a fantasy they tell themselves, and a fantasy you buy when you think these guys are somehow gaming women into sex.
Both are wrong. Men and women have had sex for eons, Game makes no difference on womens hypergamy, nor does it change anything the MRM are concerned about. This is all a big ado about less than nothing.
The biggest action men can take to effect change with women is not marry or have children. You can do that as a Gamer or a MGTOW. It makes no difference which style you choose, just don’t hand over your power by marrying or having children. THAT disempowers women – and the state-more than anything.

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 13:14

Keyster:
‘It’s sad that young men have to learn this synthetic masculinity’

What’s worse is that feminism has so devalued men that guys like Valentino, John Wayne, Gary Cooper &c are seen by women of today as ‘male pigs’ or ‘creepy dudes’ of some kind. Today’s women go for ‘real men’ like Michael Jackson, Justin Bieber, and whoever the-bad-boy-of-the-moment happens to be.

So, it’s not even a synthetic masculinity that today’s women seek: it’s the lack of any positive masculine qualities at all. If PUA was taken to its logical conclusions, it would teach men to validate themselves through female sexual favors for behaving like thugs.

Doesn’t sound especially empowering to men…

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Opus July 11, 2012 at 13:15

@Keyster

I believe I have now identified why and where there are more women in your Olympic contingent than men. I can account for two disciplines where your men are not competing and which account for twenty persons: Synchronised Swimming 2 and Soccer 18. Whether Title IX is going to enable our men to beat your men remains to be seen but if past Olympics are anything to go by, a poorer showing by your athletes will be much noted as you are expected to do well. Interesting times – by the way your guys should bring their brollies for in the words of the song it looks like it going to (continue) rain (ing) until September..

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dragnet July 11, 2012 at 13:23

@ TFH

“A large part of the need by women to rush into any male space (the military, video games, the ONE room in the house that he wants to furnish the way HE wants, etc.), is because when men get together, they might be producing value.”

I think this is a key source of feminist envy—the notion that somewhere some guy (or group of guys) is doing something awesome and there is no woman around claim a share of the spoils—or the credit.

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TFH July 11, 2012 at 13:25

Once again, it is amazing how critics of Game are in absolute, total denial that Game has any value in LTRs/marriages, even though there are well-known blogs, by Spearhead contributors, devoted to the subject.

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greyghost July 11, 2012 at 13:28

Eric
Don’t look at so seriously they are not trading commitment for sex like 90% of the men here. Just as a guy that is into the shooting sports will own 9 long guns and 12 handguns with the assorted dies and reloading equipment a PUA has a harem of two or three and enjoys pulling pussy.
To a man my age and my type in general it is not for me. I like sex with pussy but man do I hate the work of talking to women. I hate it and it is work to me. A player may have sex 300 times in a year with 52 different women but me I’ll have sex 200 times with the same chick. If it is not too much trouble otherwise it is a nice and peaceful zero.

Keyster
the guys you mentioned would have trouble in todays world otherwise there would still be men like that in hollywood. And it is sad men need to learn game to simulate what was normal and natural because to be truely and openly masculine is a crime. Reguardless of wether or not pussy wets itself for it.

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greyghost July 11, 2012 at 13:35

Centaur
Men and women have had sex for eons, Game makes no difference on womens hypergamy, nor does it change anything the MRM are concerned about. This is all a big ado about less than nothing.
The biggest action men can take to effect change with women is not marry or have children. You can do that as a Gamer or a MGTOW. It makes no difference which style you choose, just don’t hand over your power by marrying or having children. THAT disempowers women – and the state-more than anything

All that really makes a difference is childless spinsterhood it takes 20 to 25 years to get there and both guys are needed. infact some all the some man over the time period.

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Art Vandelay July 11, 2012 at 14:22

Gamers think they have discovered something, but the reality is that men have been talking about how to get laid since the dawn of man. Different times and different cultures required different apporaches by men to secure mates, and men have always given each other advice.

This might be true to you, but as some of the millionaire PUA prove there is a need for a thing like that, although I don’t know how successful they really are. There is nothing wrong with trying to improve something that you think is wrong with your life. The question of course is which approach is right. As long as it’s free advice, take it or leave it. Trying it out is rather low risk, although I wouldn’t want to be seen with weird makeup and furry hats.

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Art Vandelay July 11, 2012 at 14:25

Sex is addicting for approximately 50% of the population (80% women and 20% men). Because of the neurotransmitters. Even the part of the population for which it isn’t addicting, a sexual relationship if approached irresponsibly (like outside of a marriage or some kind of committed long-term relationship) is not enough to promote a healthy relationship

Source please.

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Old Guy July 11, 2012 at 14:51

“I wouldn’t want to be seen with weird makeup and furry hats.”

That is just Mystery being congruent with his authentic self.

Own being you. It makes everything work better in your life.

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Art Vandelay July 11, 2012 at 15:43

That is just Mystery being congruent with his authentic self.

It just seems awfully simplistic, just as using canned openers. I’m not really familiar with his method though, having only seen a few episodes of his scripted/staged TV show where they all kind of came off as douches.

“Being congruent with his authentic self” also has a strange ring to it ;)

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Darryl X July 11, 2012 at 16:23

@ Art -

My background is Behavioral ecology – PhD emphasizing chemical communication systems. I have another PhD in Psychology (the Dept is Psych but my dissertation work is more sociologically oriented – doing research concerning quantitative psychology is very difficult in our current scientific community and culture). Prior to my MS and first PhD in Behavioral Ecology, I had studied primate sexual behavior but it was too difficult for pursuing to a degree because there were many obstacles to studying those kinds of systems (including funding). I also have a strong background in statistical analyses and organic- and biochemistry.

Unfortunately, I can’t cite a specific reference and I have never found one and there probably isn’t one but there are many volumes of data reported in medical journals, journals concerning Primatology, Physiology, Biochemistry, etc… which consider the relationship between neurotransmitters (like dopamine and norepinepherine and oxytocin and nitric oxide and others) and the various hypothetical constructs for addiction. Considering the various behaviors associated with mating among male and female humans, mating is very dangerous for both a male and female so there would have to be a lot of short-term rewards for promoting sexual intercourse (the feeling of a “high” which is caused by the norepinepherine and dopamine titers relative to one another – and others). No surprise that a body will develop an habituation to and dependency upon the neurotransmitters and hormones associated with sexual behavior. It’s selectively adaptive because evolutionarily, sex wasn’t as easy as it is today. Pursuit of the opposite sex required much greater investment and involved much more risk.

Addiction to “sex” is not really an addiction to “sex”. Any addiction is characterized by the use of the object of the addiction (cocaine, alcohol, sex…) for manipulating others, both to acquire the object AND to exercise power and control over others. You can drink alcohol like a fish even to the point of scirosis of the liver but if you don’t manipulate others for it or with it, then it’s not an addiction. It doesn’t hurt others directly and not much indirectly. But if you use the alcohol to manipulate others with the public spectacle of your chronic victimhood and to keep getting a bigger dose of the “high” associated with that object and/or ability to control others with it, then it’s an addiction.

This all relates to the general hypotheses concerning social organizing among primates including humans. Civilization is basically about managing or mitigating the consequences of our sexual behavior. Primitive social organizing does not accomodate that. Civilization does. We are currently devolving into a state of primitive social organizing because too many women demonstrate hypergamy and other irresponsible sexual behavior and the men have been held responsible for it and enslaved to it. My conclusions are not one line in a scientific manuscript somewhere but the product of decades of research and review of scientific literature concerning neurotransmitters and other biochemistry and physiological phenomena, social organization, etc…

Our psychiatric community is greatly corrupted by money and the selling of snake-oil instead of hard science uncorrupted by money and ego. I don’t make any money to draw the conclusions I do. And as you may well know yourself, the psychiatric community has a vested interest in lies and not the truth.

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Darryl X July 11, 2012 at 16:35

@ Ronin -

I’m forty-four and get called “creepy” all the time. Just because I refuse to associate with women who give their bodies away for alcohol or drugs or just to manipulate men. One-hundred years ago, a man of my disposition and education and experience would be the pillar of a community. (And really, I still am today but no one cares about civilization and the men who built and maintain and advance it.) Today I am an old man perceived with contempt and considerable disdain and hostility. Just because I won’t fuck any woman who stands in front of my and wants me to pursue her and I refuse. I don’t mind a little coyness or playing hard-to-get and I don’t mind the stimulation of meeting a woman and getting to know her acquaintance, but women today have turned running and manipulating men that way into an extreme sport for which I have neither the interest or the energy. Especially if there is no long-term committment and intellectual and spiritual and emotional foundation before a sexual relationship. Honestly, a sexual relationship with a woman who does not respect my intellect and my spirituality and my emotions and is not interested in pursuing a committed relationship is of no interest to me.

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Glenn July 11, 2012 at 17:15

The entire PUA concept is based on a flawed foundation. We American men trudge around in a world where a tiny portion of the female population is worth spending any time with. The PUA labors under the false pretense that a man must “work” to get a woman. And worst of all, PUA spend inordinate amounts of resources on obtaining something that is essentially worthless. Than being the American female.

But, imagine a place where the majority of the women are attractive, educated, and fun to spend time with. And imagine that most of these girls would be happy to spend time with you, as well. And best of all, buying expensive dinners and jewelry is not part of the equation.

Such places do exist, but the PUA types never seem to catch on to that point. The only “pick up” that is required is a plane ticket, and the rest of the problem takes care of itself. I know this first hand, and I never had to use any corny PUA schemes.

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Born Free July 11, 2012 at 17:34

The main point that I got from this article is that the game community is still one of the last male-only groups left. Keeping groups and/or meeting places for the sole purposes of men are dwindling fast. On a sad note, A Voice for Men has been invaded by a mob of females. It is ironic that Fidelbogen made a great speach regarding the “Colonization of Male Space” just months before he joined AVfM as a contributing writer and the females started to intrude. I’m just saying…

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rationalist July 11, 2012 at 18:12

@MarcusAurelius

“Any woman who needs a ‘few witty insults’ to get her opened up….is a few swords short of an arsenal.”

I have a certain sympathy for this point of view. But on the other hand, you have to remember that girls don’t get to choose what turns them on. Alpha-ness turns them on. Even girls who are perfectly nice in other ways crave alpha male traits.

Imagine a girl saying to herself

“any man who needs me to be thin, curvy and have good personal hygiene before he falls in love with me is so shallow that he’s a few swords short of an armoury”

As a counterpoint, I have never dated a woman from outside western culture, so perhaps it makes a world of difference.

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TFH July 11, 2012 at 19:36

Glenn,

Such places do exist, but the PUA types never seem to catch on to that point.

Don’t two of the best-known PUAs, Roosh and Krauser, spend ALL of their time in foreign countries?

Roosh actually writes books regarding tiny countries like Iceland and Estonia.

Once again, a Game critic states something that is irrefutably false.

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 19:44

TFH:
Which shows how much brains they have—why chase sluts in foreign countries when they can PUA here a lot easier? Pffft.

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 19:47

Old Guy,
‘I wouldn’t want to be seen with weird makeup and furry hats.’

Another thing I never figured about PUA guys. If they want sex, just copy works: dress, speak, smell, and behave like a total dysfunctional retard. Guys like that get more sex than PUAs do; and on a more regular basis besides!

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Eric July 11, 2012 at 19:53

Centaur:
Your observations are good ones. My feeling though, is that men also take well into account that our laws and culture heavily favor the women. So a man is putting himself at risk by having sex with them, even more so because he resorts to manipulative techniques to do it. To my mind, these guys are playing Russian Roulette with five loaded chambers.

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dannyfrom504 July 11, 2012 at 20:16

all game has done is given me a filtering device to guage a womans attraction to me. i have never jumped through hoops, i have never lied to women. i have also required women to work to keep my commitment to them (if i decide i MIGHT) commit.

it had made me place MYSELF as the most important thing in my life. if a woman wants to tag aloong- fine, but i’ll only allow her to after i gets the booty. she plays games and acts in a manner i find disagreeable, she’s gone. period. no questions asked. beat it toots. as deti says, “there will ALWAYS be another woman.”

to me; game is self respect, understanding yourself, and holding women accountable for treating you poorly. i’m pretty sure most men realize the dangers in marrying these days, so the desicion to do so is his own call.

having the PUA and MRA guys at each others throats is counter productive. i could give 2 shits about any other “man” (especially one that’s such a pussy he has to post behind his momma’s skit via internet anonymity) calling me a beta regarding my site. and yes, i know quite a few do.

and i could fucking care less. i’m GREAT with women, thus…..when i’m hungry- i eat. i’m simply trying to help other guys eat. so call me whatever the hell you want. the end result is all the matters-

i get the pussy and i succeed in my endeavors beyond women.

and i don’t chase it. it’s NOT some vauable commidity to me. so call me a beta. i don’t care. just like i don’t fucking care what women want to bitch about in the current SMP. i could equally give less a fuck what other MEN think of me. we can happily agree to disagree.

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Antifeminist One July 11, 2012 at 21:54

Game is to traditional men what advanced maths is to children. Maybe that’s a poor comparison, but the idea is that you can’t really grasp how useful it is until you’ve studied and applied it.

Western women are among the worst in the world, I’ll be the first to admit that. But you must remember that all women are fundamentally the same. The only real differences are that of the layer(s) of culture placed upon the bedrock of human nature.

So you can look at it as either using a traditional approach to get a girl from a cultured society, or using game to restore gender balance to an uncultured society.

Either way, they achieve the same thing in the long run.

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Art Vandelay July 12, 2012 at 02:16

The entire PUA concept is based on a flawed foundation. We American men trudge around in a world where a tiny portion of the female population is worth spending any time with. The PUA labors under the false pretense that a man must “work” to get a woman. And worst of all, PUA spend inordinate amounts of resources on obtaining something that is essentially worthless. Than being the American female.

Doesn’t this apply to the supplicating mangina or the proverbial “nice guy” as well? Or the men who are getting married to fix their relationship?

Such places do exist, but the PUA types never seem to catch on to that point. The only “pick up” that is required is a plane ticket, and the rest of the problem takes care of itself.

And where would that be?

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Firepower July 12, 2012 at 06:35

dannyfrom504 July 11, 2012 at 20:16

all game has done is given me a filtering device to guage a womans attraction to me. it had made me place MYSELF as the most important thing in my life. if a woman wants to tag aloong- fine, but i’ll only allow her to after i gets the booty.

Gee, millions of Inquiring-Aspiring pua-minds would LOVE to see you post pics of the quality of female you get. Use your blog – you’ll get millions of hits!

as deti says, “there will ALWAYS be another woman.”

Deep Stuff: Glad some famous guy named ‘deti’ invented it. Tell him, I said thanks.

i could give 2 shits about any other “man” (especially one that’s such a pussy he has to post behind his momma’s skit via internet anonymity) calling me a beta regarding my site. and yes, i know quite a few do.

LOL

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 12:06

@AfoR
HORSE-FUCKING-SHIT.

Don’t bullshit me pal I read your blog.

I know you admit to bang cows, you’re not getting the hot trim so get over yourself.

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 12:15

Completely wrong. Rather, it requires a man to do far less of this than any other way of having relationships with women.

Forget all the posers and look at the guys that are actually with girls 8+ who actually have a lineup of those kind of girls.

Tattoos out the yin/yang for starters and loads of stereotypical bullshit attire. Sure they don’t have to do anything because they are already weirdos.

Let’s face it, if you were getting that much action you wouldn’t be hanging out on the internet.

When you are hot you are hot, when you are not you are not. If girls aren’t coming up to you regularly to see whats up you are not. I know because I used to be that guy, I had no job and I dressed differently getting very different results.

Now I am normal and girls think I’m “cute”. That’s it but I want a normal life, I like having money in my bank account. Call me crazy.

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 12:20

Firepower:
“Millions of inquiring PUA-Alpha minds would love to see you post pics of the quality of women you get.”

Good point. There is a noticable scarcity of ‘success stories’ on Game/PUA blogs. However, there are lot of stories in the news about criminals, thugs and bums who father 30 children and have sex with 100s of women. The Gamecocks usually don’t like discussing those stories either.

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 12:28

Peter South:
No, I don’t call you crazy. I’ve seen the same thing.

Whenever I go to the supermarket, for example, you can see the bitches’ eyes light up and alluring smiles break out when they pass the panhandlers hanging around on the sidewalk. Another other guy is beneath their notice. Twice this month alone, I’ve seen a bum get into a car with a nice well-dressed woman and drive off. I’ve seen women walk up to them and give them money with their phone numbers stapled to the bills.

It cracks me up listening to the Gamesters blather about ‘gina tingles.’ I’ll bet if you took a poll in the average county jail, you’d hear more successful ‘game’ stories than anything on the Game blogs.

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universe July 12, 2012 at 13:13

So you can look at it as either using a traditional approach to get a girl from a cultured society, or using game to restore gender balance to an uncultured society. Antifeminist One

– The latter – restoring gender balance – is the lofty goal. Don’t rightly know whether the game rubric can tide the relentless narrow interest and selfishness common to gender idealogues though. Not totally convinced.
If brokering the female sex instinct toward a reasonable social/cultural/political stability through game then you may have more of my attention. Romancing the puss is not what got NA/Western culture into its fine state of affairs. Appeasing the false allegations from cheap feminist rhetoric has.

Since you younger guys are working the gals of your age brackets, the next wave of future bogus bureauocrats and policy manipulators, we’ll have to see whether your approaches work.
Don’t get me wrong. Some of you have talent for the gab and conquest. If you’re doing what you like, getting the responses you want, and no one gets hurt then have at ‘er. But sooner rather than later you’ll have to admit that your energies could be better spent elsewhere and that facilitating tail isn’t contributing to the stemming climate of convenience and hostility bred into your lovely contemporaries (chicks).
Let us know how your approaches can translate into easing what many are suffering through now politically.

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Art Vandelay July 12, 2012 at 13:30

Good point. There is a noticable scarcity of ‘success stories’ on Game/PUA blogs. However, there are lot of stories in the news about criminals, thugs and bums who father 30 children and have sex with 100s of women.

Even if you get a success story, how are you to verify it? I can claim here that I shag 10s on a regular basis, that doesn’t make it true. Although as an architect and marine biologist I get my fair share of tail.

Although I also have to question what kind of women the thugs and bums have intercourse. I doubt that it’s the social circles or neighborhoods most of us inhabit.

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 13:31

A very instructive note: Futrelle today takes on Roissy. Notice the first statement Manboob picks to laugh at:

‘Chicks dig male status, dominance and personality more than looks’

You Gamecocks are truly embarrassing to the MRM. Even an idiot like Futrelle can laugh with the grrlzzz over the idea that any of them really go for ‘alpha’ types. Why? Because the grrrlz know it isn’t true!

We all know that women are proficient in things like manipulation, getting what they want by any means, and using sex as weapon: and, unlike men, never let feelings for anybody else get in their way. You Gamesters really believe you’re outsmarting them all—-NOT

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 13:34

Art:
‘I doubt if its the social circles or neighborhoods most of us inhabit.’

Unfortunately, it is. Most of these bums, thugs, and criminal types are dependent on female enabling (including financial) and have no trouble landing ‘high status’ women at all.

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 13:59

The argument made by Peter North, is not an argument against Game at all, it is rather an argument against having interactions with women at all.

Very perceptive. Since I only deal with escorts very occasionally I don’t need to talk to women except in a professional capacity. It’s great because I can be exactly who I want to be.

I don’t have the problems every other guy has with subconsciously trying to tailor their behavior to female expectations in hope that she will give him some pussy. The funny part is most of these guys get WAY less pussy than I do and probably way uglier too.

Furthermore, those advocating expatriation to get better women :
i) Isn’t that a very, very big change to your life?
ii) You still do much better with Game than without. See : RooshV.

Agreed, leaving your homeland for women is a massive form of supplication. Accept that women the world over are or soon will be steaming piles of excrement and move ahead with your life. Even if they aren’t, who gives a fuck? Get a hobby for crissakes.

My problem is I’d get all set to move and then I’d watch some porn, wack off and change my mind. lol

The only reason I would move is better quality of life or a really great job opportunity.

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 14:12

Unfortunately, it is. Most of these bums, thugs, and criminal types are dependent on female enabling (including financial) and have no trouble landing ‘high status’ women at all.

It’s hard for a lot of guys to understand but aside from tattooed steroided up weirdos (another form of weakness) women love weak guys they can feel sorry for.

I remember last year when I was unemployed and kind of drifting, playing my guitar in bars two women one after the other took me in offered me their homes and paid for everything. One gave me 60k in exchange for working at her business doing not much. She paid me all kinds of extra several thousand dollar bonuses, dinners, everything I was like wtf?

That one seemed to had some pretty serious interest in me. As soon as I landed another high paying IT job and started being more assertive and quit the bar scene she lost interest. I bought her some flowers to be nice and say thanks and we haven’t talked since. I guess I ruined the script. lol

The funny thing is I can turn it on and off at will. Put on a pair of jeans go to a bar and play the guitar and I’m hot. Girls come up to me and offer me sex or make very obvious innuendos “I’m going to the bathroom so now is the time to put the roofie in my drink”. It’s very easy for me to go home with her and stay as long as I want – as long as it’s clear I don’t have a job other than this.

Put on a pair of kakhis and a tie and go to work and I get a few looks and that’s it. Any dates and I’ll be expected to pay and it will be a audition for marriage only.

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Art Vandelay July 12, 2012 at 14:20

You Gamecocks are truly embarrassing to the MRM. Even an idiot like Futrelle can laugh with the grrlzzz over the idea that any of them really go for ‘alpha’ types. Why? Because the grrrlz know it isn’t true!

So you suggest to get laid one should:
1. listen to what women say they want in a man
2. become a bum or panhandler or commit a few (preferably violent) crimes?

Never heard a woman state a preference for panhandlers.

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Firepower July 12, 2012 at 14:42

AfOR July 11, 2012 at 03:09

Y’all anti gamer crowd remind me of fucking alcoholics and addicts who are being shown a general path that leads to an individual cure.

The divorced mra does NOT want a cure. Most drunks don’t want to quit – they like it, just like mras like bitching about women. mras are more interested in revenge than seduction.
It’s really quite simple.

But y’all are scared shitless at what lies at the end of the path, so you start whining about how the path is a cock of shit and lined by bars and opium dens.

They think not of the attractive young woman in a miniskirt sucking their cock; they think only of the Fat Ex counting their money, laughing, turning their sons against them with custody.

mras, are lost.

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Firepower July 12, 2012 at 14:52

Old Guy July 11, 2012 at 10:03

I don’t get why PUAs are such a boogie man for MRAs.

The BS spouted about them here is worthy of a Dr. Phil/Oprah segment on the subject.

Your not dealing with men – you’re trying to teach stunted, neotenous Gollums. REMEMBER in the 80s & 90s, when TV News warned you what would happen to all those kids with the “time outs” Ritalin and single parents?

THIS IS your modern mra posting here. Look at the attitudes – look at the fanstasy they embrace, and the ugly stuff they avoid. They’re mentally, 11 years old.

As with anything, when men put their heads together, they can figure out how stuff works. PUAs got together on the Internet and figured out how to get easy, meaningless sex from women and have them be happy about it.

You’re not dealing with Men as YOU remember them, or my father would. The KEY part is “they got together for meaningless entertainment”

When it’s time to unite to do the dirty work – hell, THAT concept doesn’t even exist to them. Their single ma’s never taught it to them, nor did their Government School Teacha.

They ARE the perfect drone. All talk, no action and who think they know it all. The Government couldn’t be more pleased with their mental neutering…

I know that seems impossible, but men have always been able to do what looks impossible with some know-how and practice

You’re dealing with boys. There is no more know-how. The quickest contrast in learning the difference is by comparing WW2 soldiers to today’s air-conditioned squad that can’t live without their Ipod and calls home to ma and the gf.

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 15:18

Wow look at the shaming language fly.

Sounds like women clucking about.

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Art Vandelay July 12, 2012 at 15:41

They ARE the perfect drone. All talk, no action and who think they know it all. The Government couldn’t be more pleased with their mental neutering…

Whereas your accomplishments set a shining example for all.

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Rus July 12, 2012 at 16:33

The PUA/Men’s Rights war has got to stop.

Sex with women is our biological imperative as men. So is legal and social dominance relative to women. Get over whatever problem you have with either group. They are both necessary.

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 16:42

Peter South:
‘It’s hard for a lot of guys to understand but…women love weak guys they can feel sorry for.’

And behind that ‘sympathy’ lies a feeling of superiority over the man.

Actually, I think most guys do understand it—it’s just that most of them are in denial about it. They WANT to believe that Ms. Princess REALLY does find them attractive and wants to sleep with them. The reality is that they hate all men, and are mostly sexually frigid. (Their sluttiness isn’t because they desire sex, it’s ego-compensation for their lack of sexual feeling).

As far as these crackpots who talk about PUA in foreign countries, they are completely clueless about foreign women. Women in most traditional countries are, like Glenn observed too, trained to spot manipulators and avoid them. As far as picking up sluts overseas, most places have ‘red-light’ districts and the only ‘technique’ they need is a hotel room, $50, and a map.

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 16:45

Art:
‘Never heard a woman state a preference for panhandlers.’

Well, if you ask most American grrrlz, they want nothing more than a decent, responsible guy with whom they can settle down and marry. Game blogs like Dalrock’s are full of such polls, surveys, and statistics.

Unfortuneately, women don’t always mean what they say.

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 17:53

@ Eric

Yeah I think in some cases it’s the simple fact that shit attracts shit.

A lot of guys today are simply too good hearted, intelligent, and or decent to be accepted by assholes. PUAs act like these are problems needing to be addressed. The solution is avoiding need to deal with assholes. Problem solved.

That’s ok because there’s plenty of escorts out there and although overpriced you can still blow through 12-24 young girls a year cheaper and more efficiently than going out every day of the week looking for ego validation.

And the most important benefit of all…I don’t care what women think and I do everything on my time.

I happen to like screwing in the morning/afternoon and I don’t like alcohol. I’m also not going to waste half my day/night on a MAYBE. Women don’t like that but that’s too bad.

No more waking up in some woman’s apartment at 3am drunk and sweating like a pig or staying out all night and feeling like shit and going home alone.

No more wondering if what I just said went over, everything I say is a hit because I meant it.

That’s what it actually means to be alpha, it means I get to choose what I do today.

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TFH July 12, 2012 at 18:22

So let’s see, Eric will side with Futrelle/manboobz as long as he is slamming Game.

A few days ago, Eric jumped at the chance to appease a feminist troll, just because she was against Game.

Yeah. Tells us what someone like Eric is about, even though none of his arguments are actually against Game, but rather, a caricature of what he thinks Game is (i.e. wearing funny hats).

My comment further up (July 10, 19:32) explains it all.

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 19:42

TFH;

Actually, I didn’t side with Futrelle. Roissy made an ass of himself and Futrelle jumped on the opportunity. Sort of like the other incident you mentioned where you and the Great Books boob were getting bitch-slapped by a feminist troll until I intervened.

BTW, can you tell us exactly why you think that Futrelle and his groupies were giggling together over Roissy’s statement? (This ought to be good…)

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Eric July 12, 2012 at 19:44

Peter South:
One thing I’ve noticed about escorts; unlike their ‘respectable’ sisters, they seem to give better service for guys who actually are nice to them.

Doesn’t take much ‘technique’ either. LOL

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Peter South July 12, 2012 at 22:21

Eric

I agree, the better escorts are better than a GF or ONS by far. If you really take care of your body and appearance, shave, smell good, etc they really get into it.

The great thing is you don’t get penalized for being clean cut and having good manners.

This one girl I used to see if she didn’t have any other clients booked we used to just lay around naked well past the allotted time and shoot the shit, maybe go another round.

It was pretty much the same as having a girlfriend without the ball busting.

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fmz July 13, 2012 at 01:41

Sure, game has much value when gaming wimminz in life. Its not like playing wimminz to one’s advantage is rocket scoence. Quite the contrary.

But, for farks sake, who could dbe bothered going thru life playing games.
Why would ya even wanna get on the lowly level of ignorance required to spin them your way. Just for a taste of tuna.

What a drag.

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Art Vandelay July 13, 2012 at 01:44

Unfortuneately, women don’t always mean what they say.

So why are you listening to what they and Futrelle say about Roissy and his theories?

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Eric July 13, 2012 at 02:01

Art:
Because they’re saying it among themselves and not to men. One of Futrelle’s groupies criticised me on the ‘Eivand Berge’ thread for saying that women liked thugs instead of real men. But they applauded Futrelle for saying it because (he being one of the grrrlz) it was ‘between themselves.’

IOW, they know Game too, better than Roissy or his disciples do.

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Art Vandelay July 13, 2012 at 02:41

Could as well be confirmation bias.

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CastleD July 14, 2012 at 00:59

Men getting together on blogs and forums and discussing male/female relationships, without censoring themselves to appease females, is valuable. Not sure why anyone would be against that in itself. Women do it all the time, in the mainstream and privately, you don’t see them telling each other to shut up about it. Although, they do often give each other bad advice because it’s difficult for females to step outside themselves and be objective about their own natures.

Of course, men do go overboard and analyze and dissect “game” to the sub-atomic level, rearranging electrons. But, that’s what men do.

They also try to bottle it and sell it, men do that too.

Since I’ve read about game the past couple of years my interactions with females have improved, so I mostly shrug off anti-game talk. It’s not a miracle of science, but understanding the true nature of the female is valuable. Personally I love it. They’re silly creatures.

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Firepower July 16, 2012 at 08:18

Art Vajdelay July 12, 2012 at 15:41

They ARE the perfect drone. All talk, no action and who think they know it all. The Government couldn’t be more pleased with their mental neutering…

Whereas your accomplishments set a shining example for all.

More than yours.

Don’t knock blogging: Price is a blogger.
Name ONE accomplished mra who’s actually done one damn thing IRL – besides blogging.

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John July 19, 2012 at 18:51

troll king July 10, 2012 at 19:23

Susan Walsh is an interesting character. She’s like a very poorly constructed version of what a feminist would create if she was trying to disguise herself as a red-pill woman(there is no such thing; all women are born knowing that they need to manipulate men to survive).

I’ve lurked her blog for a couple months now and I’ve read all of her topics. She spends most of her time ”encouraging” young women to date beta males but she never misses a chance to gush over some High Status male, and she returns to her 14 year old self when a highly attractive man/PUA gives her some attention.

She’s laps it all up. The gina tingle inducer could be calling for the extermination of women, she’d widely smile and allow the guy to continue his insanity.

Susan Walsh is the most advocate of girl game in that, she claims to abhor Alpha males because Alpha males supposedly use women, are terrible husbands and terrible fathers, don’t commit because they have options, can’t be counted for much and are going to endanger the woman he’s with or some other spiel; yet, all of her posts concerning dating is about beta guys becoming more Alpha, but how are beta males supposed to become Alpha males if it’s something one is born with(looks, height, potential for good muscles etc) or he has to learn game, which Susan Walsh hates and loves at the same time?

Some guys have called her on this. She claims that the vast majority of emotional contact between men and women are had by the top 20% of the men and the 80% of the women but she pretends that the time these guys and gals isn’t sexual in nature, it’s only some kissing or whatever.

Actually, she honestly spends half her time explaining that women aren’t dating men, good men, average men, because women are the victims of PUA’s and Alpha males but how exactly are women easy prey for these groups of men if the vast majority of women – in her own words – aren’t putting out for Alphas and PUA’s?

Am I cheated off my money if some dude comes up at to me and tries to sell me a fake rolex? No.. I do spend some time deflecting the guy but it doesn’t take all of my time like women claim these Alphas and PUA’s steal their emotional capacity for investment in a relationship because the sexual advancements from the Alphas and PUA’s leave the poor virginal daisies exhausted, lmao.

Susan Walsh also has the tendency to spread feminist propaganda in the form of stating as a matter of fact that young women are highly interested in beta males and that at least 80% of the young women going to college are in relationships with 80% of the young men, leaving only the bottom 20% of women for the Alpha men and PUA’s…

When another male poster(she never argues with women even when the women in question are in clear violation of the TOS) call to her attention the reality of her blog, mainly created to ”warn” women to stay away from Alphas, he asked Susan Walsh why is the vast majority of her blog’s content focused on Alphas, how they are bad for young women, how to discern an Alpha male from a beta male to spare herself the heartache and the loss of beauty and fertility chasing after Alpha males would put her at risk, and how to find Alpha male traits in Beta males to find sexually attraction for them(slaps forehead Captain Picard style), Susan walsh came up with a BS load of statistics, deleted this guy’s posts and banned him for life.

I don’t understand? Where is the need to ban a guy from speaking if he’s not correct? Wouldn’t it be logical for her to show some concrete evidence that women are sexually interested in betas instead of putting extremely contradictory statements, facts and examples?

Speaking of PUA’s gimmick, another poster(who was also banned because he didn’t agree with her) called her attention, after she went on and on about PUA’s being fake Alphas and that they’re mating strategy puts at risk the viability of a woman’s sexual choice, that young women aren’t as attractive as women want to believe. Thus Susan Walsh has also came down on male masturbation and porn. It takes away from women the resources and the free male attention they’d get otherwise.

That came to be after she put to ink a huge rant on how women get pregnant(I sure as heck don’t know how women get pregnant against their will now that they have 24 or more methods to prevent it), wanted to put the blame on men by associating sexual activity with universality, undoubted pregnancy, wanted men to keep ”it” inside their pants but wouldn’t understand why men would rather watch porn and masturbate – is this another attempt at raising young women’s sexual market value? Is she trying to return us to the 12th century when men had to marry a woman and thus enslave himself to her to get some poon?

That Susan Walsh sure is funny. Carrying on..

Most women are pretty plain looking. Their salvation is the horrific hormonal fog most men have to deal from their early teens to their late 40′s and that women are fake in their presentation to men; most spend thousands of dollars in their useless clothes, their hair is most likely extensions, the lushness emanating from it depends on specially produced and financed shampoos; many of them are more hairy than us. I dated a woman who had more hair in her butt than I have in my chest and I am pretty hairy.

Most women use push-up bras or paddled bras. How many times we’ve undressed a woman and her breasts went from a Full C cup to barely a B? What about those young women who seem to have full, round breasts and when you take a good look at those breasts they are skinny, floppy, and uneven?

And the Make-up? Pounds upon pounds of make-up they put on their faces and lips, lipstick to make themselves appear fertile(a trick they stole from the common street walker prostitute), the dances they learn to appear alluring to men?

But Susan Walsh picked all of this and created a topic aimed at giving ammunition to women for when men question women’s decency and their desire to find a proper lifelong mate.

I don’t want to spend all night talking about Susan Walsh so I’m gonna hurry it up.

The last guy I saw getting banned was an Apex Alpha male. Susan Walsh ignored him for a good while but when he spoke the unspoken truth – the superiority of men over women, the women rose to ”attack him” and his reply consisted in fleshing out the lie that red-pill women are;” so when red-pill women see it profitable, they side with men, but as soon as a man points out that men built everything, created civilization and are responsible for everything that is good, he’s a women-hater and gets banned?”

Suffice to say that guy also had his posts deleted and was banned. Three guys to my knowledge were banned recently. Michael, a young beta male with some potential to become an Alpha – this guy was looking to understand women but Susan Walsh made fun of him(ironic as ”red-pill women base their worth as mate on their compassion), he was insulted by several of the regular female posters(none were punished) and he was banned when he realized that men don’t need women and that women see men to be lower than dogs.

The second guy was Lowland, an Apex Alpha male that was teaching too much to the naive beta males. You know, ‘em snakes gotta protect their future! This guy was accused of being Michael in disguise and was banned and his posts deleted.

Bottom line is, Susan Walsh is an ugly, middle-aged upper-class woman that is bored with her life and with her husband, married a 6’3” good-looking fit dude who wasn’t good-enough for her(she married at the age of 25 after banging some Ultra Alpha males she now claims to not find attractive lolz) was so disgusted by her husband he had to demand sex, uses HUS as a non-active method of being in contact with Alpha males and PUA’s without risking putting out for them, has no idea how men work(the fact that most men are retiring from society and saying ”FU” to women and their expectations), hates beta males and hates Alpha males but wants beta males to become Alpha males so that young women can find men they’re sexually attracted to(WTF) but doesn’t understand that Alpha males are demoted to the state of the beta male when they marry as marriage is an instant guarantee that the woman that marries will not have sexual competitors for the husband’s attentions, sexual desire and resources, making the married woman much less attracted to her husband…

And she’s a woman that doesn’t understand that ”girl game” doesn’t exist and that the good men she’s looking for her daughter and for her ”adopted” daughters is too busy pumping and dumping.

”I want my readers to pair up with good men” translates into, ”I want a 6’6” feet Ivy League Athlete with the IQ of Stephen Hawkings and the creative talent of Pablo Picasso and with a sexual number count of less than 5 to marry me and have children with me”.

Yawn. She also has a preference for blaming men for everything.

You don’t have a girlfriend? Become Alpha!

You want to marry? Become Beta!

You want to have sex? That’s great, but to a good woman your varied sexual experience weighs negatively on your future.

You don’t want to have sex? OMG you must be omega, no woman would reject an Alpha male!

Her last few topics have been funny. I gotta hand it to her. She does have a galaxy-sized Rationalization hamster. She has made it clear that she truly believes the vast majority of the beta males are always in sexual relationships, but her last threads have been ALL about how the majority of women are tricked into being used for sex by Alpha males and PUA’s. Slaps forehead.. again.

In her latest thead, in one of her comments, she states her suspicion that the vast majority of men do not pay child-support hence she’s reinforcing the belief held by the mansphere that the vast majority of the betas don’t have sex, and that women put out for the men who give them gina tingles(the thugs and the bad boys) but she uses her rationalization hamster and someone puts all of the blame on BETA men.

Hey, she might not be smart but at least she’s teaching the young betas with 2 neurons to rub against each other how women really are, that’s far better than putting a man in front of these kids and teach away.

You know, the irony is that she settle with her husband because the guy had a great financial future, he was also tall and women have that imperative, but her son is 5’7”. Ain’t that a kick in the butt? All of the good men she must’ve rejected because they weren’t good enough, and her ”good enough wannabe Alpha male” gave her an ”un-sexy” son.

Back to Hooking-up smart I go. It’s a blog too funny to pass over.

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Truth July 20, 2012 at 20:26

i have studyied PUA for 7 years…. they really know what they are talking about.

i now have the abbility to often perdict and understand women with great percistion.

some of the advice givers conterdicts each other.. but in general… us men have found consensious about what works and whats true… and have great evidence to suport it.

for those who claim PUAs hate women…. well.. from what i have seen.. they are ty[picaly far more tolerate and understanding of women then the men on this site…. and yet… the stand up for themslves like a real man should.

for those who say pua appeases women…. that depneds on perspective…. pua gives us the honest and truthful view point that women often dont have the abbility to knwo what the want, or understand them slves….. so its hard to say we appease women.

regardless…. one thing i have noticed about pua is…. one of the most commen ways puas make women attracted to them…. is by not tolerating female sexist atttidues.

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Truth July 20, 2012 at 20:38

to john …. i disagree with the first part of your comment.

“there are no red-pill women”

i have have seen 2 red pill women.

one is named “christy o misty”

the other is “jenna marbles ”

you should look them up on youtube….

i know what you mean… most women are sexist…. and are driven to maniptilate men and lie to us to survive…. but we live in a big world…. there bound to be some anomolys.

jenna marbles and christy o misty seem to be rather red pill type women to me.

they are brave girls i think.

also… i have met a few women in real life…. who at least have the abbility to understand the mens rights view points and agree with us…. and they seem to have the abbility to understand womens many screwed up habbits and flaws.

i have also met a few women who promiss me… they wont brain wash there son or let them be forced into beta male slavery.

i do know a few girls…. who have the abbility to handle this infromation.

lets us be fair… and give credit to the rare women who really is a red pill women… they deserve credit for standing with men

like i said… i have seen.. and persoanly know… a few women who would be rightfuly called red pill women who ebelive in eqaul rights for men… as well as eqaul social burdans for women.

there are some women out there…. who are brave enough to call the female gender out on there pethetic anti male and male leeching ways.

not every single women in the world is a sexist , leech , or abuser.

there really are a few good women out there… very rare… but a few do exist… and i would like to give them some credit.

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John July 21, 2012 at 10:43

Could be. But in the end it doesn’t really matter as most women are against men, and the few women who support men’s rights can’t change anything, so it’s better to put them all in the same basket.

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Twenty July 25, 2012 at 19:28

This rings true for me. I have only a passing interest in game/PUA, but enjoy a “male space” in which female sensibilities are ignored, and feminist shrieking is mocked. In 99% of the world today, when a woman wanders by and claims to be offended all too many people pretend to give a shit. There have to be places where the only response to such nonsense is: “Too bad”.

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