A Letter To Fathers

by Featured Guest on June 18, 2012

By Frost

The first memory I can recall from my childhood is of the ambulance. My second is of the police, and then the nice couple with government ID badges and colourful sweaters who asked a lot of questions.

Dad was at work. My little sister had somehow climbed on top of the kitchen counter and couldn’t get down, so I ran into my parent’s bedroom to wake our mother up from a nap. Mom took a lot of naps in those days, it seemed to me.

The plan was simple: Wake Mom up, Mom can help sister get down. Problem solved. Except Mom didn’t wake up.

At least, not right then. I called 911, the ambulance came with some IV fluids, the police came, Dad came, and eventually Mom woke up. She had gotten sick, we were told. But it was all right, because she had gotten better. Crisis averted! My sister and I breathed a sigh of relief. Presumably my baby brother would have too, if he had understood what was going on.

At some point, Mom and Dad had some hard conversations. Dad was too busy at work to see everything that was going on, but it was obvious that Mom had a problem.

The Alcoholics Anonymous approach to curing addiction is basically to heap attention, rationalization and Hamsterbation on anyone who shows up. As long as you’re drinking, you’re the warm little center of the AA universe, and everyone tells you how special and brave you are. It’s not your fault. Alcoholism is a disease, like cancer or strep throat. Lots of acceptance, forgiveness, and deflection of responsibility. Very little judgement and honest attempts to change behaviour. Mom, I gather, greatly enjoyed AA.

I have a few stories I could tell about my life from age four to eight, but almost everything I know, I’ve learned from my father and sister. In brief: My mother’s drinking got worse, and she abandoned any pretense of responsibility for it all. The drinking, you see, was a disease beyond her control, and in any case, it was only a coping mechanism to handle the ‘emotional abuse’ she was subjected to by my father.

Sometime after my ninth birthday, everything changed.

The police came and took my father away. I went with my mother, sister, and brother to live with my mother’s parents. We moved away from all of our friends. We changed schools.

We asked: Where did Dad go?

And we got the same answer from everybody.

“Mommy, where did daddy go? Why doesn’t he live here with us.”

And we were told, softly: “I’m sorry kids but we can’t live with daddy. I know this is hard, but daddy is a bad person, and it’s dangerous for us to be around him.”

We asked: “Grandma, Grandpa, can our daddy come live here with us too?”

And we got awkward deflections.

We asked our teachers. We asked the therapist we had started seeing. We asked anyone who would listen: Why can’t we see our daddy? Why can’t he come back and live with us? Why can’t we call him?

And we always received the same answer: Daddy is bad, scary, dangerous. It would be dangerous to call him. It would be dangerous to go see him.

At first it didn’t sit well with us – we know daddy! He’s good! – but eventually, the message sank in. Our father was a bad man, and he was gone. Life became somewhat normal for the three of us, as we adjusted to a new school, new neighborhood, and a new life with Mom, Grandma and Grandpa, but no Dad. We all got lots of really nice presents for Christmas that year.

*

Perhaps you’re wondering: During those six months, what was my bad, scary, dangerous father up to? Well…

First, he was collecting bail from his friends and family, after being arrested on a domestic violence charge, for restraining my mother while she punched and kicked him.

Then, he learned that our mother had filed for divorce, and was seeking full custody of us.

Then, he learned that he wasn’t allowed to contact us.

Then, he learned that he had been cut out of the business he was running with my mother’s father.

Then, he learned that his bank accounts and credit cards had been frozen and he wasn’t allowed anywhere near his house or car.

After a year, he finally won the right to see us – every second weekend. One day and one night, twice a month. And while everyone was telling us that Dad was ‘trying to change’ even though he had done bad things, the effects of being told to fear and despise our father by every authority figure in our lives still lingered.

But, so too did our memories of who our father was and how well he had treated us when we were young. We settled into yet another new routine, with the majority of our lives in a downtown apartment with our mother, and an occasional weekend trip to our father’s suburban semi-detached tract house.

*

Our mother was fine for a while, but no more than a year at the most.

She started drinking again. She got a boyfriend. She found and lost a few jobs.

Eventually, there was another ambulance. Eventually, there was a police call from a neighbour after a loud fight with her boyfriend. Eventually, after a small fortune in legal fees, patience, and the excruciating pain and helplessness of knowing that his three children were completely at the mercy of an alcoholic (and now, drug-addicted) mother and her unstable boyfriend, in a tiny apartment in a sketchy area of town – my Dad won a hearing to have the custody agreement re-evaluated.

The judge puzzled and puzzled until his puzzler was sore: Should he award custody to our father, the hard-working owner of a now semi-thriving business, which he ran out of the basement of a safe, stable house in a nice suburb? Or to our mother, a drunk and a drug addict, unemployed save for the cashing of her welfare and alimony cheques, and her abusive live-in boyfriend.

Somewhat miraculously, my father won custody of us on – wait for it! – every weekend. And Wednesdays! Truly a great blow for truth, justice, and the American way. Because he was roughly one thousand times as responsible as our mother, he was granted the right to take care of us almost half the time.

*

I joke, but this really was a turning point for the three of us – myself, my brother, and my sister. Our father became a dominant presence in our lives, rather than just the man who took us somewhere fun every few weeks. We started to understand what ‘normal’ was, and that our mother’s apartment wasn’t it. At that point – around the age of ten – I started to understand what had actually happened between my parents, and that I had been lied to for most of my life.

Once the three of us were old enough to understand, it wasn’t long before our father had full custody. In the end, my mother imploded spectacularly and went into rehab. When she got out, she tried once more for partial custody. She threatened to bankrupt my father out of spite, because she knew she could rely on various legal defense funds (paid for by your tax dollars, no doubt) that would be happy to bankroll her attempts to destroy our family.

Eventually she yielded to my adolescent insistence that we were happy living with our Dad. From the ages of 13, 12 and 10 onward, me, my sister and my brother lived safely, easily, happily and peacefully at our father’s house.

Easily, that is, for us.

My Dad was still working in his basement office every waking hour of the day. He popped upstairs whenever he needed to start dinner, clean up, or yell at us to stop fighting and be nice to each other. After a decade of non-existent parenting and discipline, we fought and yelled, never even thought of cleaning up after ourselves, and generally were a pain in the ass to supervise. Raising us should have been someone’s full-time job. Instead, it was something that our father had to do over his shoulder while running a company that required his constant attention.

During our teenage years, we each played hockey three times a week. My brother and I had weekly football games. My sister played basketball. I played rugby. Our father rarely missed a game. We also played baseball, practiced gymnastics, took swimming lessons, ran track, and went camping together. Looking back, I don’t know how or when my father slept. Which makes sense, because his bedroom was the smallest in the house (my brother and I shared the master), and it had nothing but an old mattress, a table, and an alarm clock.

(Although one thing he definitely did find time to do was bang every cute single mom of the kids I played hockey with. So maybe there was a bit of an angle to all those sports…)

Once when I was fourteen, my Dad and I were fighting. In the heat of the moment, I yelled that he was a bad father, and that we would have been better off if he had never come back. I saw an expression on his face then that I have never seen at any other time, before or since. We stood facing each other in silence for a few moments. Then he looked away and asked: “Is that really what you think?”

I didn’t say anything.

I knew on some level that my father was a good man. But I had also spent the better part of my life being indoctrinated to fear and despise him. That kind of programming doesn’t go away overnight. We had a lot of good times together, as a family, after my father won custody. But my siblings and I also had the ability to be ungrateful, disrespectful little shits.

*

Our mother went through a few cycles of drinking and rehabbing over the next decade. Occasionally, she kept it together for months at a time before quietly slipping off. Once I went over a year without hearing from her, except for the otherwise inexplicable appearance of a shopping bag with a Calvin And Hobbes collection hanging off of our mailbox on my birthday.

Whenever she had things moderately under control, the three of us visited her once a week, with the encouragement of our father who, despite everything that happened, wanted us to have a mother in our lives. I was just happy to have one night a week, in my mid-teens, to stay out as late as I wanted, and come home smelling like whatever I had been drinking and smoking all night, without having to answer any difficult questions.

But I was always happy for my mother when she seemed to be getting her shit together. Maybe I was even really happy the first couple of times. After a while though, I’d seen the movie enough times to know how it ended. I started caring less and less about the semi-regular announcements that she was Turning Over A New Leaf, until one day, I made a decision.

I do not have a mother.

This being the 21st century though, I do indeed have my mother on Facebook. She appears to be working in a mid-sized city on the other side of the country with some of her extended family. She enjoys Reddit, I gather, and thinking up witty status updates.

With those observation, I wish her all the best in her twilight years, and return to the subject of my father.

*

Because today’s story (remember?) is for the fathers. Above all, it is for my father, the man to whom I owe everything. The man who dedicated his life to fighting for me and the two people I love the most in the world.

Perhaps it seems like my Dad has had a rough life.

But here’s what he has now.

His three grown children always have time to come over for dinner, breakfast, a long walk with the dog, or just to hang out.

Aside from his oldest son, who is apparently a self-styled “professional blogger” with an annual income that would embarrass a Rwandan McDonald’s cashier, all three are happy, healthy, and on the cusp of what appear to be successful and interesting lives.

His business has been successful enough for him to move into a nice house, work part-time, and save enough for a comfortable retirement.

Most importantly: The three of us – my brother, my sister, and myself – will never forget the sacrifices he made for us. He will grow old surrounded by our families. He will never doubt how grateful we are, and how much we love him. In his later years, when he needs help gardening, cleaning, painting, fixing, building, or anything else, we will help him. If he ever needs home medical care, he will get it in one of our homes, not some cold, grey filing cabinet for old folks. If he ever needs someone to hand-feed him, give him sponge baths, and wipe his ass for him…

Well, I’ll hire a nurse. But I will hire the hottest fucking nurse I can find.

* * *

To all the good father’s out there who can’t be with their children today, this post is for you. Stay strong. It gets better. Happy Father’s Day.

{ 102 comments… read them below or add one }

Art Vandelay June 18, 2012 at 11:54

Those judges probably deserve a letter, too.

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Firepower June 18, 2012 at 12:31

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Firepower June 18, 2012 at 12:34

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Eric June 18, 2012 at 12:39

Jeez—calls for lynchings and letter-bombs. What’s the MRM coming to?

The point of Frost’s story is obvious: his dad learned the hard way what involvement with Anglo-American women lead to. His story’s not unique: I know men who’ve been through that and worse. These arre hard stories, but great object-lessons for single men.

Men who want to avoid the fate of Frost’s dad have one simple solution: don’t involve yourselves with women who’ll do this to you. Stop pretending that ‘the next one will be different’.

Disconnect, disunite, disengage from this culture. That’s the way to fight back and win.

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Eric June 18, 2012 at 12:47

Rmaxd;

‘Lynch a judge as you would any traitor or dictator.’

OK—challenge for you. You’ve been trolling here calling for SOMEBODY to take this kind of violent action. Now, step up to the plate! Lead us all by example here. Are you going to ‘man up’ and become the first martyr for the cause?

Somehow, I don’t think so. LOL

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keyster June 18, 2012 at 12:52

OT – Must read article on the state of Feminism…

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/1-wives-are-helping-kill-feminism-and-make-the-war-on-women-possible/258431/

It’s a classic!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
GS Jockey June 18, 2012 at 12:52

Inspirational story. It oughta be a movie….but of course nobody in Hollywood would produce it.

I am glad you were able to overcome this shit-sandwich and build a good relationship with your Dad.

Cheers,
GS Jockey

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greyghost June 18, 2012 at 12:55

Rmaxed what the hell is wrong with you.

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Eric June 18, 2012 at 13:08

Greyghost:
I’ll explain it: he’s a plant. Pure and simple. This isn’t the first time he’s called for this kind of thing, and there’s a deliberate purpose behind it:

A lot of people who read this forum don’t post or debate here. Some of them are mentally unstable—George Soldini/Anders Brelvik types. Those are the people Rmaxd is talking to. He wants them to commit some act of violence (notice he never wants to do it himself) that afterwards the media can announce, with great publicity, that the perpetrator was ‘inspired by posts on the Spearhead’.

Notice too how he marginalizes as ‘crazy’ guys like Keyster. Slwerner, Rob, me, Migu and others—that’s purposeful too. It’s to convince these unbalanced types to take courage and commit some violent act.

This kind of tactic has been pulled before in other venues. Rmaxd’s arguments aren’t aimed at rest of us; they’re aimed at an audience you don’t see.

That’s what’s going on here. If he doesn’t like my saying so, tough. He can sacrifice himself in some bloody act if really means what he says. But he won’t—because he doesn’t mean any of this. He wants somebody else to do it, and the rest of us to take the fall.

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W.F. Price June 18, 2012 at 13:12

OT – Must read article on the state of Feminism…

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/1-wives-are-helping-kill-feminism-and-make-the-war-on-women-possible/258431/

It’s a classic!

-Keyster

She hit a number of my talking points. Maybe I’m finally getting through to these people.

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Rebel June 18, 2012 at 13:17

A very touching story. And what an accurate description of a decrepit society.

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Ryu June 18, 2012 at 13:22

It’s alot more than that, boys.

For decades, survivalists and white nationalists have dealt with the government and their trickery. Your man Rmaxed is the stereotypical agent provacateur.

This is only the beginning. The SPLC is on you now. International feminism is against you. And this is just for the MRM dosage of the red pill, a very mild thing indeed.

But I think it’s a good thing. The red pill goes far beyond divorce court, picking up women and such. Those things are easy for all to see. Its when you start asking the big questions, the people who you cannot criticize, thatyou’re onto something.

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walking in hell June 18, 2012 at 13:26

This story is all too uncommon and more like more like a fairytale than what happens to most fathers. The mother in this story was especially rotten, so she lost some custody.

The more common story is that the mother is slightly rotten and the father is good, but the father loses his children anyway. Then the father becomes permanently estranged from his children. This happens within a year in around 40 percent of cases. The children are bastardized are effectively bastards at this point, unless the mothers finds a replacement.

If the children are bastardized, than they suffer from many disadvantages and psychological problems. If the father is replaced, the children may suffer as well. The real father almost always suffers from permanent psychological and financial problems.

Quite frankly I want to see some payback on these monsters that perpetrate these evil crimes against fathers and children. I applaud the effort, but a story like this makes me feel even more hopeless.

No doubt about it, America is the worst country in the world for fathers and children. I am disgusted I was born in the country and I am even more disgusted that I brought a child into the world through that country. I hope America and all its bastard factories (family courts) collapse.

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keyster June 18, 2012 at 13:30

She hit a number of my talking points. Maybe I’m finally getting through to these people.

They can only ignore the message for so long.
Here’s one in contrast, where the Hamster Wheel comes to a grinding halt.

http://townhall.com/columnists/crystalwright/2012/04/11/its_time_for_women_to_reject_feminism_and_kiss_peter_pan_goodbye

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Traveller June 18, 2012 at 13:40

Beautiful post.

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Poiuyt June 18, 2012 at 13:48

We brought it all on ourselves over time: by a cynical and cold eyed acceptance of it, when it applied to and against the next man and his sons, whom were always just as innocent as we. That is, they didn’t deserve it, but we let it happen anyway, and continue to do so.

Now at this stage these hellish abuses of men, and violations of what’s right continue to expand daily to affecting us all: because still and after all that has occurred, we have not yet developed any slightest bit of sympathy for our own selves.

I see these things this way because only very recently did so much anti-male chauvinism, as we again are now seeing freely expressed today, lead to the slaughter of over one hundred million menfolk for absolutely nothing at all.

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walking in hell June 18, 2012 at 13:49

The father’s day story below is what most of us have to go through who are abused and beaten down by the courts and not allowed to see our children.

http://freekeene.com/2012/06/16/tom-balls-self-immolation-not-forgotten/comment-page-1/

The problem is the above story is so true; so dark; so against the “fake-cheerleader-smile” of the typical American, that no one wants to talk about it. And the sick and sad thing is that fathers in America have been suffering like this for decades.

Only recently have the long-term effects of bastardization been discussed for children–the depression, the low self esteem, the suicide, the drug use, the academic failure. Again, it is so dark, no one wants to talk about it.

Because if people do talk about these crimes, they are so heinous and widespread, that people will want to assign responsibility; and responsibility for such heinous crimes against children can behold an individual to a special kind of punishment.

We see the nervous squirming by judges in the Australia case marked by the judge issuing an apology. We also see nervous squirming in the UK with the evildoers trying to issue fake political gestures to angry people.

The evildoers must smell something besides fire and brimstone. The sooner they get to the fire and brimstone, the better off children and fathers will be.

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Darryl X June 18, 2012 at 13:55

@ Eric -

“These arre hard stories, but great object-lessons for single men.

“Men who want to avoid the fate of Frost’s dad have one simple solution: don’t involve yourselves with women who’ll do this to you. Stop pretending that ‘the next one will be different’.”

I’m afraid there aren’t very many women who won’t do this to you. So, the only option is to either try with one who likely will (and hope and pray for the best) or spend the rest of your life alone and in defeat (not that there’s anything wrong with living your entire life like a monk – but it does get a little lonely). I confess that I tried (twice) and failed miserably both times (or rather I was defeated). (Knowing in advance what my chances were and doing everything I could in my power to avoid the problems and consequences but as any guy here can attest, if a woman want to make a marriage bad, she will succeed.) I can’t say I would have been happier if I didn’t try. Although maybe I wouldn’t be struggling to survive – LOL.

@ Traveller -

Yup. Beautiful post.

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Darryl X June 18, 2012 at 13:58

Yes. Great object lesson. It does inspire in me the hope that some day maybe my children will not hate me and that they will appreciate all the sacrifices I made for them even if I was not allowed to be a parent or be part of their lives. Hope springs eternal. Sometimes, it’s all there is.

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Darryl X June 18, 2012 at 14:06

@ walking in hell -

“The sooner they get to the fire and brimstone, the better off children and fathers will be.”

Bring on the fire and brimstone and let it rain hell on earth for these people. And the better off everyone will be. But, yeah, especially fathers and children.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself June 18, 2012 at 14:29

@ keyster

I read Crystal White’s article and while she can call herself a conservative all she wants and tell females to reject feminism, she:
1)only wants to have a male be her meal ticket;
2) uses shaming language in the article;
3) obviously got female-biological-sex-based Affirmative Action to get into higher education and probably does not think that Affirmative Action for males is acceptable, even with males now a minority on campus;
4) uses excessive double standards (stay-at-home is OK for others only) and objectifies men;
5) and projects “Peter Pan” onto men when feminism has already displayed a track record of zero maturity

Judging from the content of the article, I would treat her intentions of asking females to reject feminism with a grain of salt.

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ABM June 18, 2012 at 14:29

The misery created by feminism and the family court system will continue to churn on…but I just wanted to say:

What a great dad…Happy Father’s Day to my departed dad and to Frost’s dad.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself June 18, 2012 at 14:30

* stay at home is OK for mothers only

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Poiuyt June 18, 2012 at 14:46

Another puzzling phenomena in these genderist lands, is the total lacking in essence, marked by a stark and sheer absence, of basic human sympathy for men on account of their maleness.

In other lands, you see total strangers male and female, stepping in to assist or aid a man personally, officially or institutionally, as they would similarly assist a woman or a child on the spot without question.

Over here, we’re such a long way off, socially and culturally, from demonstrating an immediate willingness to help or to aid a man in need, him being a total stranger to ourselves, purely because he exists as a man.

This searing lack of sympathy for males manifests itself in so many different ways here: The male prison numbers; The sole male and shared parent numbers; The male alimony and child support obligor numbers; The male work and general casualty/fatality numbers; The male per capita production/expenditure numbers; The male life expectancy numbers etc, etc.

Why should it be that men, no matter how great or small, are so easily treated in this inferior manner here ?

It cannot be accepted by men, that because institutions and even women, are so contemptuous of them, they must themselves also internalise and adopt that demeaned posture and low identity.

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AfOR June 18, 2012 at 14:58

Watch where the first western dominoes fall, the PIIGS, watch men and productivity suddenly ramp up in importance.

Watch then men saying fuck you, I’m looking after number one.

Watch WW3 start.

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Rebel June 18, 2012 at 15:14

“Watch WW3 start.”

Let’s hope it doesn’t happen: it’s always men who die wholesale in wars.

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Uncle Elmer June 18, 2012 at 16:11

Great essay.

One question, though : You make money “blogging”?

———

Off-topic, but I am pinned down behind enemy lines and not getting my comments called out, which is really unfair :

America’s Female Soldiers: Fighting, But Without Fair Medical Care

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiedrummond/2012/06/18/female-soldiers-health

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Georice81 June 18, 2012 at 16:15

Impressive article!

Thank!

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Uncle Elmer June 18, 2012 at 16:18

I like the part where his dad rogures all the soccer moms.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself June 18, 2012 at 16:20

@ Uncle Elmer

Wouldn’t female soldiers be the females MOST likely to know that life isn’t fair for anyone? They are not obligated to have anything to do with the military, so while I appreciate their service, they should know that the military is not perfectly fair either. A stray bullet or grenade doesn’t care who it hits.

(On a side note, I’d like to also point out that many feminists denigrate male soldiers and accuse said soldiers of being rapists without even naming their names.

Rather unpatriotic for feminists from countries that largely handed them privileges without said feminists having to resort to armed struggles to get what are, in fact, privileges, don’t you think?)

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V10 June 18, 2012 at 16:27

@Rebel
“Let’s hope it doesn’t happen: it’s always men who die wholesale in wars.”

The old hippie saying comes to mind… “What if they held a war, and nobody came?”

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keyster June 18, 2012 at 16:46

Judging from the content of the article, I would treat her intentions of asking females to reject feminism with a grain of salt.

What do you expect her to say?
…that men and women should be perfectly EQUAL in every regard?
…because as much as Leftist MRA’s fantasize about a gender egalitarian utopia (where men are viewed as just as delicate and victimized as women), it’s never gonna happen.

You guys MUST see something negative in ANYTHING a woman says, even if she attacks Feminism. It’s what keeps the movement stagnant.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 12
Carnivore June 18, 2012 at 16:48

@Frost – Excellent essay!

@Poiuyt – Good observation regarding men getting no sympathy. Seems to be very peculiar to America. Probably backed up by the “women are morally superior to men” concept which is so prevalent.

Regarding the Carol Wright article, she writes:
Where women are failing is lying to ourselves about what we really want.
That’s always the case – women never know what they truly want, or if they do, wait a minute and it will change.

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Traveller June 18, 2012 at 17:30

Off topic but I get the occasion of writing it otherwise I forget again.

At the left pane of the site just under the title image there is a writing “blog advertising is good for you”. But only the words “blog advertising” are a link while “is good for you” is just normal text.

Now, I use Adblocker for Firefox and it seems the linked site is blocked by it. So it happens I only see “is good for you” all alone.

The funny result is, I read from the top: The Spearhead … is good for you

I suggest to extend the hyperlink to the words “is good for you” too.

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Firepower June 18, 2012 at 17:40

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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David F. June 18, 2012 at 17:53

This is the most memorable tribute to a father that I’ve read this Father’s Day. I’m particularly inspired by your father’s refusal to be shut out of your lives and his success in restoring what was left of his family.

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Eric June 18, 2012 at 18:16

Ryu;
Good call on that one. I think you’re right on.

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Eric June 18, 2012 at 18:19

Darryl X:
The best advice I think that men can follow is to see our culture for what it is. Women under the influence of feminist ideology are behave as they’ve been educated to behave, and there’s no getting around it. Another way out is to pursue women from non-feminist cultures. It’s not a perfect solution, but it does increase the odds of success tremendously.

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Rebel June 18, 2012 at 18:33

There are more emotions on this thread than I have ever seen. Much of the pain that so many of you feel has come through and reached me deep inside: it left me with a lump in my throat. To all the fathers who have expressed their pain here I offer my sincerest sympathy.

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Nico June 18, 2012 at 18:39

OT: One unarmed male burglar vs two armed female policewomen

outcome: two female cops shot to death. France under shock.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18494962

By the way, the new French government is clearly more feminist-friendly than the previous one.
They are already trying to push for a new law in order to make parity compulsory at the parliament.

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AndrewV June 18, 2012 at 18:45

@keyster June 18, 2012 at 16:46

…that men and women should be perfectly EQUAL in every regard?
…because as much as Leftist MRA’s fantasize about a gender egalitarian utopia (where men are viewed as just as delicate and victimized as women), it’s never gonna happen.

Not speaking for others but as a leftist my view is that the ideal is equal opportunity for all, and this is something we should strive to attain.

However, the bat shit crazy insist that equality literally means equality of outcome for all , which is completely and utterly reality defying insane.

The insanity part is compounded by not only denying that no one is equal to anyone else in anything, but also insisting that men and women are equal in all ways, and that it only appears that we are not, because of artificial social constructs.

This is a mass psychosis that apparently has no known cure, at least none that I know of.

You should be in a position to understand now if you did not before, why so many liberal policys are unworkable, doomed to failure from the word go, because the basic premise upon which they are formulated, are based on a principle that has little or no objective basis on reality.

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Art Vandelay June 18, 2012 at 19:29

This is a mass psychosis that apparently has no known cure, at least none that I know of.

How about a good old fashioned beating? ;)

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Darryl X June 18, 2012 at 20:06

@ Eric -

“Another way out is to pursue women from non-feminist cultures.”

Feminism is spreading fast. Countries to which feminism had not been introduced twenty-five years ago like New Zealand and Australia are crippled by it now. They started later than the US and Canada but they fell swiftly.

Countries like Russia have resisted but even they have had to deal with the threatened introduction of “women’s shelters” which is an important tool used by feminists in their political campaign of hate against men and children and in their recruitment of women into their religious cult.

Small countries like Costa Rica and Panama have been completely overwhelmed by feminims in just the past decade. They indoctrinate children into the feminist cult early. Costa Rica actually jails men for child support arrears I was disappointed to learn. Women in these countries believe they have opportunity now that they didn’t have before. They will be sorry.

We’re running out of countries. Even if there are some left, getting to them without a passport is difficult. For men like me, trying to find opportunities in the US is the only option. Unfortunately, even bastions of morality like the Catholic Church and other institutions are falling rapidly to feminism.

I dunno. Hope springs eternal but it is looking kinda grim. I’m afraid that once feminism has been extablished in every country, the outlook for men is not going to be so good. They are already slaves in most places. And once those in power have enslaved all the men, they will go after the women. I think our non-feminist cultures are going extinct at an alarming rate.

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Eric June 18, 2012 at 20:25

Darryl X;
I think there’s still some hope. Russia, like you mentioned, has resisted and I think there’s a lot of indication that Putin actually understands that feminism is being imported into Russia to undermine the country. China’s going to be another holdout, and India too.

The Islamic countries have their own issues, but will feminism has a long way to go there.

As for Latin America: Panama and Costa Rica are also the two countries in that region which have the highest numbers of American influence. The rest of Latin America is still very resistant to feminism.

A good option too is meeting immigrant women here; they at least have the advantage of having been exposed to feminism, so you easily gauge whether or not they accept it. The only problem with immigrant women is that they not to stay single very long!

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shmiggen June 18, 2012 at 20:47

…because as much as Leftist MRA’s fantasize about a gender egalitarian utopia (where men are viewed as just as delicate and victimized as women), it’s never gonna happen.

You guys MUST see something negative in ANYTHING a woman says, even if she attacks Feminism. It’s what keeps the movement stagnant.

Equality is a ‘left’ principle? Really? Abe Lincoln was a leftist? LOL. Keyster, you’re a joke, dude. If the MRM isn’t about equality then just what is it about? Low taxes? LMAO! Fuck, I could simply be a Republican, then.

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keyster June 18, 2012 at 21:49

Feminist Legislation in action.
Female State Reps Lisa Brown (D) and Barb Byrum (D) censored from speaking on the Michigan House floor by Republicans regarding feminists issues.
Liberals enraged!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/vagina-monologues-on-steps-of-michigan-statehouse/2012/06/18/gJQAtdKImV_blog.html

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keyster June 18, 2012 at 21:55

You should be in a position to understand now if you did not before, why so many liberal policys are unworkable, doomed to failure from the word go, because the basic premise upon which they are formulated, are based on a principle that has little or no objective basis on reality.

And yet you’re a self-described “leftist”?
Government imposed social justice and economic equality IS a leftist/feminist tenet. The cognitive dissonance is staggering! The CBC has certianly indocrinated it’s citizens well.

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Rebel June 18, 2012 at 22:01

“Another way out is to pursue women from non-feminist cultures.”

Then there is Africa.

But then again, Africa is falling, too.

I guess we might as well take it fro granted now: feminism has spread all over the world and will stay there forever.

So now, we need to start a real men’s movement: a replica of what the women’s movement was, for we have swapped position with women. A change is needed. We need a men’s liberation movement, just as women had theirs.

The alternative is for men to avoid marriage at all costs and to keep their relationships with women very superficial, uncommited.
Men need an efficient birth control pill. They need to use it well.

The end result of this will be a gradual but steady reduction in world population.

Men will also need to learn to kill their need of women: that dependency has to go. Men must come to the point where they need women like fish need bicycles. Only complete independence will do if men don’t want to be put into slavery.

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AndrewV June 18, 2012 at 23:16

@keyster June 18, 2012 at 21:55

And yet you’re a self-described “leftist”?

Yes indeed, see here:
http://noseenohearnospeak.blogspot.ca/2012/05/site-political-compass-topic-test.html

Government imposed social justice and economic equality IS a leftist/feminist tenet. The cognitive dissonance is staggering! The CBC has certianly indocrinated it’s citizens well.

You are apparently making assumptions and conflating Liberals with Leftist, that would apparently explain your confusion.

Please reread my previous post where I differentiate between equality of opportunity versus equality of outcome. The former is to just and worth striving for, the latter in practise swaps one form of injustice for another.

I hope that serves to clarify.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:06

Leftie is talking, Leftie is stupid. What’s new?

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:09

Oh, so women should have equality of opportunity, eh? AKA they should have the right to vote, which conclusively leads to the welfare state AKA widespread Leftism/feminism. So some idiot who claims his goal is “equality of opportunity” is really just a feminist in sheep’s clothing.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:12

No, a conservative realizes that as men and women are different, so should they be assigned (generally) different roles. An idiot (liberal) demands that women are granted the same opportunities at men, so that they may waste them. Of course, 50% of female college graduates drop out of the work force within 10 years. But let’s be Leftist and ignore that, and continue to promote “equal opportunity” even when it harms society. Let’s get women in college, so they can squander it. Let’s grant women the vote, so they can vote for tyranny. Let’s treat women as equals. Which is really what “equality of opportunity” is saying. In other words, feminism, Leftism, and female hegemony.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:23

Here are all my links regarding suffrage and related topics: http://linksouo.blogspot.com/2012/06/suffrage-links.html

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AndrewV June 19, 2012 at 00:29

Oh, so women should have equality of opportunity, eh?

Yes they should, but without the feminist inspired pressure to be equal to men.

Even in Norway, women gravitate to fields were they do well, for example Nursing. The North American feminists keep trying to push women into STEM fields, where it is clear to me that the majority are not interested. Furthermore, there is a lot of social pressure on women to by the lesbian/feminista to shame women who are stay at home moms.

AKA they should have the right to vote, which conclusively leads to the welfare state AKA widespread Leftism/feminism.

I attribute that to the Marxists who have infected the Univeristys and have been very successful in their propaganda. An example is Lasky of the London School of Economics, a man indirectly responsible for many deaths and untold misery in the third world. Look him up.

So some idiot who claims his goal is “equality of opportunity” is really just a feminist in sheep’s clothing.

Talking like a retard is unbecoming. I suggest you stop it. Next time try thinking first.

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shmiggen June 19, 2012 at 00:33

The ignorance is appalling. The ‘left’ denotes nothing more than where one stands on the political spectrum; it is not an ideology unto itself. If you are on the left, that means you oppose the hierarchy you are subject to. For example, the very first Americans who revolted against the Brits were ‘leftists’. The very first Poles who revolted against the Soviet Union were ‘leftists’. Yes, Lech Walesa – who routed the Commies – was a leftist.

Those MRA’s whom you refer to as ‘leftist’ are men who advocate for men, end of. I do not see anywhere a support for socialism or communism. You’re a fucktard, Keyster, full stop. A real douchebag of a human being. You’re the guy who thinks being a good MRA is driving around with a ‘support our troops’ sticker on his bumper.

SMH…..

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:33

Backpedaling is common with feminists, AndyV.

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AndrewV June 19, 2012 at 00:38

@JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:33

Backpedaling is common with feminists, AndyV.

You are determined to convince me that you have a reading comprehension issue apparently.

You should not conflate Leftism with Liberals. Now try re-reading my posts starting with the first one.

If you still do not get it, then my conclusion is unflattering.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:48

Leftism is liberalism. Next up, Leftism link.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:59

Here’s the link on Leftism. You’d spend weeks reading the links there. Till you do, please shut up noob. http://linksouo.blogspot.com/2012/06/leftism.html

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 01:01

By the way I’ve changed the suffrage link to the following: http://linksouo.blogspot.com/2012/06/suffrage.html

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AndrewV June 19, 2012 at 01:31

@JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 00:59

Here’s the link on Leftism. You’d spend weeks reading the links there. Till you do, please shut up noob.

Your response is pretty amusing, I admit that I am now giggling so hard I can barely type. Try here instead, the author is pretty accessible.

I Want a New Left: Developing and promoting self-critical leftism
http://iwantanewleft.typepad.com/i-want-a-new-left/

Sorry about laughing at you, but really do not seem to understand and I really do not think this is the the Dunning–Kruger effect either.

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Eric June 19, 2012 at 01:49

Rebel:
When I first came to the MRM, there was a story in the news about a Japanese robotics engineer who had made a female android. It really wasn’t much more than a fairly realistic-looking doll; although there was quite a bit of discussion at the time for the potential to improve on the design. The main thing was that it’s invention caused a fury from the feminists. Even at that early stage in my MRA days, I could see the reason: for the first time women were looking the very real possibility that they could become expendable.

Personally, I’m more into foreign girls than virtual sex. But the same principle applies: as long as there are alternatives to feminists, the feminists are expendable. They don’t have the power to convert every woman on the planet; and even if they could they can’t stop men from building robots.

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Anonymous June 19, 2012 at 02:03

@Keyster,
“You guys MUST see something negative in ANYTHING a woman says, even if she attacks Feminism. It’s what keeps the movement stagnant.”

Personally, I happen to be one of the guys who agrees with you as far as the acceptance of women who reject feminism. I’m NOT one of those people who sees something negative in anything a woman says, per se. But the following quotes from the article you linked to lead me to believe that Crystal Wright DOES NOT have the best interests of men at heart. It basically just reads as another “man up” article, to me. In what ways does she actually suggest women change their behavior? Other than to reject the “peter pan’s” who refuse to man up and commit? I have no problem with taking responsibility for a wife and a family. But there needs to be some incentive to do so. And until women DRASTICALLY change their behavior, I don’t see that incentive. I’m not going to “man up” for a woman who spent her twenties being passed around, “having fun”. I’m not going to “man up” and raise another man’s child. I’m not going to “man up” as long as there’s a fifty percent chance (or far higher, if you only count my demographic) that at some point my wife is going to get bored and kick me to the curb and take my kids.
Read the following quotes from the article. Seems to me that she seems to think the only responsibility women have for the mess we’re in is that they’ve made things “too easy” for men. WE’RE the one’s at fault. And if only we’d “grow up and wear our big boy pants” everything would be good again. Sorry, I ain’t buying it…

“Women need to start making men feel inadequate and force them to act like men not boys again. In our quest for independence, women have made things far too easy and comfortable for men.”

“This new paradigm where men depend upon women for economic stability is screwed up and doesn’t sound like female sexual freedom to me but a life of purgatory.”

“The time has come for women who believe in traditional gender roles to give Peter Pan the heave hoe and tell him don’t come knocking again until you’re wearing your man shoes and pants.”

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Travis June 19, 2012 at 02:03

@Keyster,
“You guys MUST see something negative in ANYTHING a woman says, even if she attacks Feminism. It’s what keeps the movement stagnant.”

Personally, I happen to be one of the guys who agrees with you as far as the acceptance of women who reject feminism. I’m NOT one of those people who sees something negative in anything a woman says, per se. But the following quotes from the article you linked to lead me to believe that Crystal Wright DOES NOT have the best interests of men at heart. It basically just reads as another “man up” article, to me. In what ways does she actually suggest women change their behavior? Other than to reject the “peter pan’s” who refuse to man up and commit? I have no problem with taking responsibility for a wife and a family. But there needs to be some incentive to do so. And until women DRASTICALLY change their behavior, I don’t see that incentive. I’m not going to “man up” for a woman who spent her twenties being passed around, “having fun”. I’m not going to “man up” and raise another man’s child. I’m not going to “man up” as long as there’s a fifty percent chance (or far higher, if you only count my demographic) that at some point my wife is going to get bored and kick me to the curb and take my kids.
Read the following quotes from the article. Seems to me that she seems to think the only responsibility women have for the mess we’re in is that they’ve made things “too easy” for men. WE’RE the one’s at fault. And if only we’d “grow up and wear our big boy pants” everything would be good again. Sorry, I ain’t buying it…

“Women need to start making men feel inadequate and force them to act like men not boys again. In our quest for independence, women have made things far too easy and comfortable for men.”

“This new paradigm where men depend upon women for economic stability is screwed up and doesn’t sound like female sexual freedom to me but a life of purgatory.”

“The time has come for women who believe in traditional gender roles to give Peter Pan the heave hoe and tell him don’t come knocking again until you’re wearing your man shoes and pants.”

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 02:45

@Andyv, you still haven’t read what I linked. Of course, you don’t want to. Too scary for a Leftie. Also, what is there worth reading at the site you linked? I glanced at the first six articles and saw nothing of interest, mainly gossip. As a conservative, I don’t find gossip (women’s talk) intersting.

“You guys MUST see something negative in ANYTHING a woman says, even if she attacks Feminism. It’s what keeps the movement stagnant.”

Oh look, it’s this kind of talk from keyster that makes me question his masculinity.

A man who doesn’t understand that EVERY woman in existence is prone to selfishness is a man who has never lived with a woman. Women’s nature is to use men to survive. Any man who doesn’t understand this simple fact is an idiot.

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freebird June 19, 2012 at 03:03

Left me misty eyed.
Pops is coming on 75 with Parkinson’s.
You can bet your ass I’m gonna be there to pick him up when he falls.
Despite the harassment of an Oprah brain washed man-hating mother.
It’s the least I can do.
This life goes so quickly,make a stand
for what’s right,make your life count for something.There are no next chances.

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freebird June 19, 2012 at 03:21

Make no mistake:Taking care or pops will come at great risk to myself.
Mother has already played out simulation of the end result when pops
had knee surgery and resultant dementia from the anesthesia.She threatened to put pops in a nursing home.
Of course I was emotionally invested and she used that to attack me at every turn.
Attacking me with a fork at one point,and threatening to call the PIGS
on me for false Dv against her.

I had about enough of this BS,and who knows what the outcome may be,but it would be best to share this pain with those inflicting it.
cue up “blood on the plow”

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dhanu June 19, 2012 at 03:23

Personally, I believe most of what JeremiaMRA says except the way to reach upto that solution. The quest to equality not only negates the natural hierarchy but once it’s reached, given favorable conditions, it invariably becomes corrupt and actually leads to the reversal of the natural hierarchy. So equality is just a sweet sounding rhetoric to fool the people into keeping them in favor. It’s really all about supremacy.

But it must be realized that since this perverse practice has been going on for decades, it’s already established the female supremacy to a large extent. In order to ‘fix’ this, we first need to bring about the equality. Only then there can be any talks of a hierarchy.

JeremiaMRA wants to go directly from negative to positive by a powerful trigger, skipping the zero altogether; others in disagreement wish to bring the marker to 0 first, avoiding a magical trigger. It is yet to be decided which approach is more feasible, practical, and definitive in terms of actually achieving its respective goal.

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freebird June 19, 2012 at 03:32

@keyster:
I’ve been watching the local news here in Michigan on the vagina rampage.
The media has painted them as modern day suffragette martyrs.
Made me a bit pukey to hear Eve Ensler speak.

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freebird June 19, 2012 at 03:42

@JeremiahMRA
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
Lighten up on the personal attacks and political divisionism.
You’ve got some decent things to say,this sort of stuff dilutes your signal to noise ratio.
We’ve got to put aside the circular firing squad.

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 04:29

@ Eric -

“Eric June 18, 2012 at 20:25″

“The only problem with immigrant women is that they not to stay single very long!”

Yeah, I agree with this entire post. Good points all.

MGTOW is another option too. I think many men feel obliged to a relationship with a woman to define themselves (and women to men except that women seem to define that relationship as control over a man).

But a great thing about being a man (or a woman for that matter) is that we are still relevant as individuals and relationships with a member of the opposite sex (or the same sex or something in the middle if one is so inclined) is not an obligation and should only be pursued if it enhances both participants.

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 05:03

I think someone needs to compile a lexicon of the MRM so that when we communicate, we’re all on the same page. (I wasn’t volunteering BTW – LOL.)

Too many of us are speaking past one another and probably agree on most major points but are getting side-tracked by minutia and misinterpretation of terms and each other’s positions. But discussion and disagreement are good and it is that independence that defines men and the MRM. So not to discourage it. I just don’t want anyone visiting this and other sites to think that the MRM is divided too much.

A primary element of the MRM is elimination of feminism (not that ideas in and of themselves are bad but ideas based upon lies and fraud and solipsism and lack of analysis and thought and logic are bad – I haven’t really met anyone in the MRM that is guilty of those kinds of offenses – and there’s no such thing as too much thought, only too little).

There is only one kind of feminism. There is no first- or second-wave feminism. There is no ecofeminism or radical feminism or socialist feminism. There is no left and right. No conservative or liberal. (With which many feminists would hope to rationalize their egregious misconduct and criminal behavior – “Oh, but I’m not THAT kind of feminist.”) And with which most feminists would hope to define and divide the MRM.

There is only feminism and it is evil and civilization depends upon its complete and utter elimination. Feminism is the product of false constructs and straw men and false flags and lies and fraud and is a political campaign of hate against men and children. Period.

It has coopted our financial and legal and political and social institutions to affect the enslavement and murder and imprisonment and exile of men and the forcible separation of children from their fathers. It is responsible for the collapse of our economies worldwide and the fall of civilization. Feminists are comprised of mostly women but there are some men (manginas and white knights and other descriptions).

Feminists are psychopaths and malignant narcissists, without conscience and driven to do evil. They are solipsistic, manipulative, opportunistic, parasitic and predatory. They are compulsive pathological liars and deceptive and manipulative. They have no empathy, remorse, shame or guilt. They have no analytical skills and cannot plan ahead and are short-sighted. They are shallow of affect and are remorseless and are insincere and disingenuous. They are faithless and in the absence of any analytical skills, they do not have faith in the analytical skills of others, no matter how much evidence there is of its benefits. They are career and life-long con-artists.

No matter how we define or relate to one another as men in the MRM, understanding the distinction between men in the MRM and feminists is more important. That is the enemy which must be destroyed. The other men in the MRM from which each of us are different are our brothers and the only important difference is that between men in the MRM and feminists. That’s the difference which defines us and on which civilization depends.

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Towgunner June 19, 2012 at 06:26

@ Darryl X

Great comment – here here. Gents the objective is the destruction of feminism! Period!

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Kyo June 19, 2012 at 06:40

So now, we need to start a real men’s movement: a replica of what the women’s movement was, for we have swapped position with women.

Rebel, forgive me for focusing only on one of your points, but men haven’t swapped position with women. At no time in history has the average woman been in as low a position as today’s average man.

Men have been brought down to the position that feminists falsely claim that women were once in. Part of why they’re so evil is that women were never really in such a position, or anything close to it.

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Doc June 19, 2012 at 06:44

The agenda of liberals in general, is to destroy the present working system. That is why their policies are designed to destroy the economy and create turmoil. They think that they have to destroy everything that is presently functioning, to create their beautiful society – of course all that is left is a smoking husk and since they have no idea of how to actually create anything, nothing ever replaces the system that works.

That is what you are seeing today – the American family is being destroyed and society in general. Nothing will replace what is destroyed since the liberals have never created anything – only destroyed. They are too blind to see that since they can only see their fantasy – of course, the fact that it never happens will be someone else’s fault. For the feminists – it is, of course, the men.

This is why Obama constantly clings to his ‘it’s Bush’s fault” even though the present economy is all his – so is the destruction he has wrought. It will only get worse if he stays in power. I have laughed at today’s youth for electing him – since they do not realize he said their would be change – and it is. Twice as many without health insurance, the dollar is worthless and when hyper-inflation sets in everyone will have no savings. Liberals always want everyone to be equally miserable – it is all they know… It is all they can deliver… Unfortunately, there are always young and stupid people who lack experience and do not see it’s all been done before and failed, and always will….

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My Cunt Is Wet With Fear June 19, 2012 at 07:12

Until you realize that feminism is NOT simply an accidental byproduct of economics or technological development, you may have swallowed the red pill, but the active ingredient hasn’t fully crossed your blood brain barrier.

http://wp.alexjonespodcasts.com/

Alex Jones History of Feminism
The destructive history and agenda of Feminism EXPOSED.. Women are ultimately the real victims of this deception.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5svxl8Q00

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 07:17

@ kyo -

“At no time in history has the average woman been in as low a position as today’s average man.”

This conclusion is absolutely correct. As a matter of fact, throughout history, all women have always been in an extremely privileaged class compared to most men in that same population. Women have never been oppressed – they have just been different because men and women are different. They certainly have never experienced any degree of oppression let alone the kinds of dire circumstances by which men have been confronted. Most men have always been far worse off than most women. And today, the disparity of those circumstances is the greatest its ever been and far worse for men.

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 07:19

@ My Cunt Is Wet With Fear -

No need to post anything, your handle says it all – LOL.

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Georice81 June 19, 2012 at 07:57

Feminism is a by-product of Marxism which sees everything as a class struggle. Marxism began taking hold of most institutions in the west and brought this nonsense into our cultures. Everything, at all levels became class warfare. Blacks became the new proletariat. But it didn’t stop there. It became an academic exercise to identify as many groups as possible as the under class. So into this pot came hispanics, homosexuals, poor people and even women and children.

What marxism has done is create a hyper-individualist society here in America whereby everybody is self-centered and sees themselves as some sort of victim. The stupid amount of litigation that one sees beginning in the 70′s is a result of this way of thinking which is now ingrained in the American consciousness.

This hyper individualism is what convinced women to ditch their husbands and even kids in looking for some sort of Nirvana where they would be self-fulfilled. The only thing that could stop them from achieving this were their bastard husbands. So the liberals passed all the necessary laws to make sure that women could get what ever the hell they wanted.

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Josh the Aspie June 19, 2012 at 08:03

@keyster, AndrewV

I read over the article. It has some good points, but it does use some language that puts me on my guard.

She acknowledges that feminism has made women miserable, and that this is a bad thing. It would help if she’s mentioned that it’s made men miserable too, and that this is also a bad thing.

She says that women are unhappy being barren, and that men don’t want to commit as a result of feminism. This is true, and a start. But then she goes on to say that women have to shame men into “manning up” and committing, and uses shaming language to express this, rather than addressing changes in the behavior of women that could entice men to do so.

Over-all, both of the articles that people have cited on the case of feminism have some good points, and some bad points. Given that a lot of good points are starting to make their way into even the female side of the gender-role debate, and the debate on feminism, I think that this is a sign that there is progress being made, but that we are not there yet.

At one point at a church group, there was a discussion over women ending up alone, a condition they obviously found unsatisfactory. I broke in to say that I had done some research, and found out the answer to the question “Where have all the good men gone?” One of the women perked up and asked me what I had found. My response was “Not interested in American Women.” There was a huge deflation, and later on the same woman expressed the expectation that she would be a spinster.

I think there’s some progress.

Unfortunately, most of the law-makers we have still have an idealized view of feminism, or are angry feminists themselves.

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keyster June 19, 2012 at 08:19

Liberals always want everyone to be equally miserable – it is all they know… It is all they can deliver… Unfortunately, there are always young and stupid people who lack experience and do not see it’s all been done before and failed, and always will….

The goal is to “deconstruct” Free Market/Capitalism or destroy it, to prove that it doesn’t work and that a benevolent Socialist State, (like say Greece or Spain) will rise from the collapse. Part of this is fomenting discontent among the Proletariat against the Bourgeoisie so they’ll vote for government enforced economic equality, otherwse known as the “class warfare strategy”.

In the Feminsist context Men are the Bourgeoisie class and Women the Proletariat class, hence the Democrat/Feminist push for “Equal Pay”.

Marginalize the ideological stranglehold the Left has on our youth, women and minorities, and you mitigate if not destroy Feminism. Feminism, especially the strident political kind, cannot exist without the support of the Democrat Party and the Left.

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 08:27

@ Georice81 -

I don’t know if feminism is a by-product of Marxism or not but it certainly has elements of it and naziism, Stalinism, communism, socialism, fascism, narcissism and a whole bunch of “isms” I’ve propbably never even heard of.

It definitely IS a culture of malignant narcissism and choronic victimhood. The laws which affected the ability of women AND feminists (some men too) to get whatever the hell they wanted was affected by both liberals and conservatives alike – the different laws just allowed them to go about it in different ways.

Everybody jumped on the band-wagon to fall over one another stealing from honest and responsible and hard-working men for their own self-indulgence and excess and immediate gratification. It isn’t a function of liberal and conservative but responsible and irresponsible. It isn’t even a function of men and women as some men participated too in this great fraud. All women benefited from it.

Presently, in socialist countries like Australia and New Zealand and Europe, a man who owes child support is not denied access to health care or some other form of public assistance. In the US, a man who owes child support because he is unable to pay is denied health care and any other public assistance. Basically, the US condemns a man to death because it has broken him. It created the problem and then condemns the man for creating it. I don’t know what you call this development, but it’s wrong.

Don’t call it socialism because socialist countries don’t deny their men who owe child support access to health care any more than they deny it to anybody else (as far as I know – someone can correct me if I’m wrong). This development is pretty much unique to the US. And this country continues to expand on the laws which promote this kind of insane and destructive and extreme and malicious discrimination. That’s why I consider the US the worst feminist country in the world (and also from what I can tell the largest in terms of population). And it is exporting this kind of dangerous discrimination against men to the rest of the world which is why I have been very outspoken in warning other countries from adopting these kinds of policies. It will only end in their destruction as it has the US.

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keyster June 19, 2012 at 08:31

@Josh
Given that a lot of good points are starting to make their way into even the female side of the gender-role debate, and the debate on feminism, I think that this is a sign that there is progress being made, but that we are not there yet.

We’re getting, there it takes time.
Not everyone can be as finely tuned and hyper-sensitive to Men’s Issues as MRA’s on the internet are. These are topics no where near broadly discussed in the mainstream. I for one don’t dismiss these anti-feminist “trad-con” types, even it they feel compelled to include the “shaming language” (OMG!).

WHEVER I approach them wih the MRA narrative they seem to have NO IDEA it even exists and I NEVER get any push back, on the contrary, acknowledgement and agreement. You don’t just take a Red Pill and wake up the next morning all enlightened. It’s takes years to shift the culture and the conversation. Feminism is a VERY POWERFUL force in our society.

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keyster June 19, 2012 at 08:37

In the US, a man who owes child support because he is unable to pay is denied health care and any other public assistance.

That’s not true. Get your facts straight.
If a man, or anyone else, walks into a hospital emergency room, he cannot be denied healthcare by law regardless of his financial position, or arrears in child support, (they wouldn’t even bother checking that).

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 08:41

@ Josh the Aspie -

I’ve read about or listened to concerns of women being left “alone” before too. My response is always the same. When I review the history of marriage and divorce and other circumstances which may result in a woman being “alone” and its consequences, the instances in which men leave women alone (for whatever reason or mechanism) is rare and represents a very small percent of women.

And even in the rare instance that has happened throughout history, women almost always have other people they may rely upon, particularly extended family. There are usually other resources too.

For men today, however, when they are maliciously and unilaterally divorced, they usually have no extended family to rely upon (families are a lot more sympathetic to a woman than a man and accommodate them much more frequently) and there is no public assistance or anything (and they are socially isolated but I don’t even worry about things like that and my concerns emphasize practical survival).

They are truly alone and today they represent a much larger population than women in similar circumstances ever have throughout history. When women excuse their adoption of feminism and all its machinations with concerns of being “alone”, they are manipulating everyone with the public spectacle of their chronic victimhood for which there is no evidence (as is usually the case).

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 08:44

@ keyster -

If a man owes child support, he likely cannot afford health insurance (I know many who can’t). If he walks into an emergency room with a broken arm, they may or may not treat him (depends on the hospital and its funding and disposition of the staff). If a man walks into an emergency room with pancreatic cancer, they won’t treat him (period!) and they’s send him away to die on the street. I’ve seen it happen enough times. Those are facts.

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 08:50

@ keyster -

Actually, my example of pancreatic cancer is a bad one because you’re gonna die anyway. But there are other medical circumstances for which there is treatment but a man will be denied it if he has no insurance and he cannot afford it. Hospitals which I have visited before required me to sign a document confirming that I could pay and that I provide proof that I could pay before they treated me. This is normal in the US.

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Firepower June 19, 2012 at 08:50

The World
Is So Much Better Now
With Another Tender Essay

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Poester99 June 19, 2012 at 09:25

Poiuyt June 18, 2012 at 14:46

Another puzzling phenomena in these genderist lands, is the total lacking in essence, marked by a stark and sheer absence, of basic human sympathy for men on account of their maleness.

Two reasons, it’s common knowledge in America that men:
1 – Are dangerous and cannot be trusted
2 – Have all the advantages of the patriarchy at the expense of women (even most avowedly non-feminist women believe this)

So any misfortune that falls upon an individual man either by accident or by design will be only what he deserves. Only a man’s parents or family might feel his pain, but even that is by no means guaranteed.

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keyster June 19, 2012 at 09:26

But there are other medical circumstances for which there is treatment but a man will be denied it if he has no insurance and he cannot afford it. Hospitals which I have visited before required me to sign a document confirming that I could pay and that I provide proof that I could pay before they treated me. This is normal in the US.

Again, that is NOT true.
If it’s a private hospital that may be the case, but any public hospital MUST provide healthcare whether you can afford it or not. They cannot turn you away by law. If you can prove inability to pay, it will be carried over to Medicaid. No one in the USA is dying because hospitals refuse to treat them. This is a Leftist cannard.

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Darryl X June 19, 2012 at 09:59

@ keyster & Poester99 -

This comment by Poester99 June 19, 2012 at 09:25 is spot on.

I’m not going to argue with you because there is truth to what you write and certainly what you write is supposed to be law and true. But as you probably know, there is often a great disparity between how things are supposed to be and how they actually are (as one example, our Constitution and laws are supposed to preclude men from prison just because they are too poor to afford the child support they are ordered to pay and most of those orders violate law and the guidlines that were put forth to inform calculations and orders in the first place which explains their poverty, yet there are plenty of men in prison for arrears).

Few hospitals in the US are publically funded. And there exists in the US a desperate lack of adequate medical facilities already, even when privately funded ones are considered. Even fewer of those publically funded hospitals have the resources to treat all those who need care. If all these men who need health care could get it, then there wouldn’t be so many dying in poverty from medical conditions that were treatable. Many men are in poverty in the first place because they are denied the medical care they need. It wasn’t a choice on their part.

Anyone familiar with the condition of our medical care for war veterans should agree that medical care even for those men who have served is hard to get. And there has been great concern expressed over the quality of that care even if they are given it. And that’s for a contingent of our population of men in poverty associated with an organization like the Dept of Defense to which one of the largest proportions of our nat’l budget goes. Imagine how much access to and quality of care a man in poverty who isn’t a veteran is going to get at a public facility. Not much. I know too many men who have died on the street when they could have been treated.

This discussion would be a great seqway into the vast amount of financial resources in this country which are diverted to women under false pretenses like family planning and abortion and contraception and medical conditions which are minor compared to male equivalents and from men who desperately need it. Our medical system and infrastructure in the US has absolutely suffered from the discrimination against men not just because they’re men but because of lies feminists have told about need of medical care by women and men.

One great example of these lies is that more money needs to be allocated toward women for heart disease because more women die of it. That’s not true. More women over the age of 65 die of heart disease than men but that’s only because most men who will die of heart disease have already died by the age of 65. That’s an argument not for more resources allocated to women and heart disease but men and heart disease. But our great legislators have decided that despite the facts, they are going to pander to women for votes and allocate more money to women and heart disease. Great system we have.

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meistergedanken June 19, 2012 at 12:06

Firepower complains:
We complain too much – AGAIN.
His efforts wasted.

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Josh the Aspie June 19, 2012 at 13:34

@keyster,

Of course it takes time. I wouldn’t expect anything less.

And I’m hardly adverse to “trad-cons” as you put it. According to many on this blog, I’d probably be a “socon”.

I was just pointing out that AndrewV also has a point in that she did not explicitly express concern for men, or ways that women need to change.

@Keyster, Darryl X

I am a mentor to some of the kids at Church, and I try to provide a healthy male presence for various kids at church. In the course of doing so, I have openly pointed out a large number of the problems caused by feminists, and the problems with feminism. I rarely get any push-back, and the one time I was, it was a weak statement of “not all feminists are like that”. My reply was that yes they are, and something to the effect that feminism is a synonym for misandry.

At my local church, whenever “battered women” or the like comes up, such as a local “women’s shelter”, I ask about how I can contribute to a men’s shelter, rather than trusting the women’s shelter to look out for men. Most of the folks I’ve talked to fully recognize that men are abused as well, and often need help, but can’t find any. The message is getting out just by talking about it, but it does take time.

I’ve also been an ear and a shoulder for some of my male friends across the ‘net who have problems with feminist family members. One of them was loosing his faith, and I told him it’d be far better to find a Church that has a good men’s program and serves the needs of it’s men than to abandon his faith entirely to spend more time listening to women tell him he’s wrong.

I really appreciate this blog, and the various advice it provides, as well as all of it’s perspectives. That said, I take a slower approach than some others have advocated. There are organizations and people in my life that I value, and many of them include females. I have gone faster than others could stand at times, and this didn’t produce progress.

For me, I find the idea of hanging out with guy I disagree with on a lot of things, but enjoy spending time with, and working out or going shooting, and chatting as we do attractive. Far more so than having a big argument. I like big steps, but I like small steps too.

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Firepower June 19, 2012 at 15:32

Frost, man!
This essay made me cry – really.
I can’t wait for one on your Golden Lab
raised from Just a Pup
that died of leukemia
sensitive men will
one day lead

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 16:15

Discussing reality and searching for solutions is not “creating division”. Those who wish to ignore reality and refuse to look at solutions aren’t allies to men. I’d rather have unity with men’s allies than unity with their enemies.

“JeremiaMRA wants to go directly from negative to positive by a powerful trigger, skipping the zero altogether;”

dhanu, this isn’t a river, you can’t just swim against the current and hope to return. It’s more like a home, you have to demolish it in order to rebuild.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 16:16

Haikus are

Really gay.

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JeremiahMRA June 19, 2012 at 16:48

Hey fellas, I created another link fest regarding the decline: http://linksouo.blogspot.com/2012/06/decline.html

I’ve also updated all the articles to include a quotation at the beginning, as an introduction to the topic. Here is the one I used for the decline:

“You know how I know it’s the end of the world? Everything’s already been done, every kind of music’s been tried, every kind of government’s been tried, every fucking hairstyle, bubble gum flavors, you know, breakfast cereal…What are we going to do? How are we going to make another thousand years? I’m telling you, man, it’s over. We used it all up.” – Max, Strange Days

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joeb June 19, 2012 at 17:31

The story Sounds really familiar . Oh ya the father was me . Only my ex was a crack smoking whore that spent 8 months in Jail to come out get the felony ex sponged then take the Kids away with the help of a corrupt Judge with Family ties after ward her Boyfriend beat and kidnapped my kids while holding them hostage for crack .
God my kids went throw hell and back . God damn right I’m a combatant . they better Believe its going to end bad .Mad as hell some days .

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Art Vandelay June 20, 2012 at 08:49

If it’s a private hospital that may be the case, but any public hospital MUST provide healthcare whether you can afford it or not. They cannot turn you away by law

You are of course assuming that they follow the law. And if they aren’t you can sue them, if you can afford it…

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freebird June 20, 2012 at 11:41

“If it’s a private hospital that may be the case, but any public hospital MUST provide healthcare whether you can afford it or not. They cannot turn you away by law. If you can prove inability to pay, it will be carried over to Medicaid. No one in the USA is dying because hospitals refuse to treat them. This is a Leftist cannard.”

Technically you are correct sir.
However all the hospitals here in Michigan have been privatized.
They are under no obligation to do squat.

I do hope you can see were the “right vs left” thing has come round to bite ya a bit.

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freebird June 20, 2012 at 11:45

Not only that,but there is a strong wind blowing towards privatizing the entire prison system in the US.
Do I need to explain how the drive for profit will destroy justice and prison conditions?

Corporate monopoly is indistinguishable from communism.

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freebird June 20, 2012 at 11:48

Furthermore:
Obama has invoked executive privilege
to cover for Holder’s actions in the “fast and furious” incidences.
If the repubs fail to call for impeachment you will know for sure your alliance is flawed.

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