Meet Your New Mother: Your Father

by W.F. Price on June 12, 2012

Feminists and those who would redefine masculinity like to congratulate themselves for changing the definition of fatherhood. Men are now expected to help out more with traditionally female tasks, share the burden of childcare, be more effeminate, etc. Michael Kimmel, who preaches against what he calls “toxic masculinity,” is a big proponent of this. Lots of women now expect that their husbands will be more like a maid than the man of the house.

In an opinion piece for The Age, Chloe Angyal shares her experience of being raised by a feminist father, who did her hair for ballet and talked about “feelings” with her:

Thanks to feminism, my relationship with my father is entirely different to the one he had with his late father. When I was a little girl, it was dad who did my hair for Saturday morning ballet class. Until I was 15, when I finally mastered the art myself, he was the ballet bun master-in-chief in our house. Thanks to feminism, my father and I can talk about our feelings, something men of his generation could rarely do with their dads. Might things have been different had I been a boy? Possibly.

[...]

If sexism keeps women trapped in stereotypical boxes – over-emotional and dependent, with a lower sex drive – it keeps men trapped too: stoic, always in charge, and forever looking to score. When men become parents, those same stereotypical boxes stop them from taking parental leave, or supporting a son’s passion for, say, sewing, or a daughter’s desire to be a leader.

What Kimmel and Angyal leave out is how exactly this has been achieved. It is not so much that fathers in general have become more touchy-feely and feminist, but rather that almost half of them have been removed from playing any meaningful part in their children’s lives. Perhaps the ones that remain – often upper middle class types like Kimmel and Chloe Angyal’s father – are more involved in “progressive” parenting, but most people just aren’t like that. Don’t children with ordinary, conventional fathers deserve to have fathers, too? Should men who are not comfortable hairdressing and participating in ballet be disqualified from fatherhood? These are important questions, because there are more fatherless children than ever, and we have feminism to thank for just that.

{ 64 comments… read them below or add one }

Anti Idiocy June 12, 2012 at 10:02

“there are more fatherless children than ever, and we have feminism to thank for just that.”

Beyond any shadow of a doubt. The systematic removal of men from the family and from teaching children and adolescents (largely through the threat of false accusations) has been a major goal of feminism at least since the 60s. Boys now lack, to a large extent, not only male role models but also exposure to men who might, and should, warn boys of the dangers that females pose to their physical, emotional, and financial well-being.

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Justinian June 12, 2012 at 10:03

Will Chloe ever have a daughter? And if her baby dady is around will he get a chance to discuss he feeeewings with her?

What if Chloe’s “children” are all hairball munchers? Will she discuss her feewings about the local rodentia populations with them?

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keyster June 12, 2012 at 10:05

They’re promoting Gender Egalitarian propaganda; making men feel guilty for not being more like the sacrosanct woman, weakening her competition as it were.

Note there’s no mention of Mothers assuming the role of Fathers; taking their sons fishing or playing ball in the park. It’s a different standard for Moms. Besides she’s too busy cooking cleaning to be a Father.

I have a heroic single mom neighbor that tries to play catch with her two sons every so often. It’s sad spectacle to witness. But then I’m sure she’d be better at helping them get ready for ballet class.

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Uncle Elmer June 12, 2012 at 10:46

On a personal level, feminism has liberated me from stoic-normative behavior, as searingly portrayed in TV’s MadMen drama series, to which these gals can point while penning their intensely personal gender narratives.

I for one, was totally into helping girls with dance. Off-topic, but at one point I had purchased a used “Club Wagon” that had formerly been owned by a girl’s gymnastic troupe. You could still see the letters for “Gymnastic Club” on the side window. To be profiled in my upcoming Spearhead essay Tools for Men : Your Van.

Today in ForbesBeat :

Lunchtime Quick Fixes: Hour-Long Beauty Breaks

http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/06/12/lunchtime-quick-fixes-hour-long-beauty-breaks

elmer 1 minute ago

“Upon entering I was welcomed by two pretty young women…”
Vietnamese, eh? I totally endorse regular lunchtime total-body massage and rejuvenating facials.

There is no reason to be ashamed about this, Meahgan. Your older married male co-workers who have stay-at-home wives do it and it’s time for the ladies to have their turn.

It’s only fair.

Bouncing Back from Job Loss: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Job Hunters

http://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2012/06/12/bouncing-back-from-job-loss-the-7-habits-of-highly-effective-job-hunters

elmer :

If you haven’t been fired or laid off at least a half-dozen times in your life then you haven’t even lived.

Go back to your cubicle and await your next instructions.

Are You Irreplaceable? Three Ways You Can Become an Irreplaceable Employee

http://www.forbes.com/sites/85broads/2012/06/12/are-you-irreplaceable-three-ways-you-can-become-an-irreplaceable-employee

elmer :

It’s like being a mobster; if you bring money into the organization you can do whatever you want.

Otherwise you are dead meat.

Taking The Sting Out Of The Queen Bee Myth

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2012/06/12/taking-the-sting-out-of-the-queen-bee-myth

elmer :

The recent Harvard-endorsed study advocating the removal of older married male co-workers who have stay-at-home-wives in order to ensure a properly balanced gender ratio of mentors for ascendant young females is likely to backfire when those slots are filled by the angry feminist survivors of the tarnished Encorpera career dream.

You gals will be longing for the return of those paternalistic old goats and their infuriating, though ultimately beneficial, stewardship of corporate staffing structures.

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walking in hell June 12, 2012 at 10:49

Better communication between fathers and children could have been a great result from feminism; as could have leaving the degrading role of “breadwinner” and “provider” behind. But for every father that had improved communication with their children, or was not always away “breadwinning” or “providing,” many fathers are simply absent.

If you look around the internet you can see the pre-father’s day shaming campaign beginning. We will hear it all again about how fathers should “man up” and how shameful it is that these deadbeats choose not to be in their children’s lives.

Yes, some fathers are absent by their own choice; but most of the time the evildoers are vindictive, selfish women and the corrupt family courts. They are the bastardizers. The absent fathers and the children are the victims. Yet the fathers are shamelessly blamed.

The only sign of hope that I have seen is that when I challenge the “deadbeat” stereotype on other websites, my posts get some support from men and women.

Yet the financial incentives for the giant bastard factory that is the divorce industrial complex are so deeply entrenched, that I would strongly discourage any young men from doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.

There is nothing sadder and more heartbreaking than losing your children; there is nothing more degrading than being blamed for abandoning your children when they were taken from you.

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ahamkara June 12, 2012 at 11:05

“those same stereotypical boxes stop them from taking parental leave…”

I am reminded of that famous quote that is attributed to Jack Welch… there is no work-life balance, only work-life choices, and they have consequences. This idea that men work hard because they don’t want to be with their families is a result of feminist magical thinking, where you can be a captain of industry and a round-the-clock parent just because you think you deserve it.

As a husband and father, I tried to do both of these things anyway because my ex-wife demanded it on threat of leaving me and taking the children with her. She left anyway.

The flipside of this coin is that women are making themselves useless. They don’t want to work, because the world owes them something. They don’t want to do chores or cook or take care of the kids, because they’re liberated. They don’t want to have sex with you, because they’re not “sex objects”. They’re rude and disrespectful because no man is good enough for them.

As a husband and father, you look at this woman and you think to yourself… why are you even here?? I could do all this by myself, and do a better job than the two of us are doing together, because all you’re doing is spending money and constantly trying to sabotage me so that you can prove to yourself that I’m a typical good-for-nothing man.

I’m taking care of the kids 50% of the time because the courts won’t let me have any more, paying all of my bills and most of hers as well. If I could have the kids 100% of the time and not pay child support, they’d have a much brighter future. They’d miss their mother, and I wouldn’t want to do that to them, but on the bright side there wouldn’t be anyone around to teach them how to be ungrateful and lazy.

Just my humble opinion after experiencing the joys of modern marriage.

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walking in hell June 12, 2012 at 11:12

Here is an article that explains the main reason for fatherlessness.

In Minnesota there was a bill that increased the presumed time a non-custodial parent spends with his child from the current 25% to 35%. Of course the ideal is 50%.

http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2012/06/07/mn-governors-veto-of-shared-parenting-bill-thwarted-the-will-of-the-people/

The bill went through the house and senate with a combined House and Senate vote of 132 in favor versus 61 opposed. That’s a landslide of 68%.

Then governor Mark Dayton vetoed it. Why? According to the article:

“The governor indicated that he was “particularly influenced” by opponents who claimed their expertise working “every day with the most challenging divorces.” We are left to assume he was referring to the same three lawyer groups who heavily lobbied and testified against the bill throughout the legislative process.

The opponents of the shared-parenting bill consisted primarily of a small, influential group of well-entrenched lawyers from Legal Aid, the Family Law Section of the Bar and the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. Since custody battles are revenue generators for attorneys, they have a lot at stake.”

My interpretation: the lawyers know that if they can by default, drastically remove a father’s time with his children, he is likely to desperately spend money to “try” and get that time back. In other words kidnapping makes money because the father loves his children.

One thing that many divorced parties find out later is that their opposing attorneys secretly exchanged information on how large the party’s estate is worth, and how to drag on the divorce until the estate is devoured. The result of this pilfering: fatherless children and a father who cannot even afford to visit them every other weekend.

My question to you is this: given the crimes they are committing against fathers and children, can you think of a reason why these lawyers deserve to live?

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Georice81 June 12, 2012 at 11:14

I am really not looking forward to going to church on Father’s day. Already I can see the dark clouds looming in the horizon and how the pastor has a “special” message for us men. I think I will stay home on Sunday.

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Pirran June 12, 2012 at 11:19

What are the chances that Chloe Angyal’s Ma was rogering every bad boy in the office whilst daddy was immersed in hair care?

“Thanks to feminism, the men my friends and I marry will be engaged, emotionally present fathers. Thanks to feminism, our children will grow up with fathers who improve those statistics on the second shift and who shoulder more of the burdens and share more of the pleasures of emotional care giving.
Those men, some of whom are just meeting their future spouses, will feel the positive influence of feminism every day. Of course, only the very best among them will perfect the fine, fidgety art of the ballet bun.”

Thanks to feminism, these men will suffer even more when you’re bored to distraction with their feminine wiles and boot them out of the house to play naughty french maid with the bad boy biker down the street. And your kids? Oh no….not on your watch…..THEY’RE YOURS…… He can just blow his brains out when you move 500 miles away (not that you’d notice, or care).

After all, it’s not like families REALLY need fathers…..I mean, when it’s inconvenient for you to have them around.

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walking in hell June 12, 2012 at 11:36

“I am really not looking forward to going to church on Father’s day. Already I can see the dark clouds looming in the horizon and how the pastor has a “special” message for us men. I think I will stay home on Sunday.”

The Christian churches had a chance to make some real change for family stability, and they failed miserably. Even the Mormon divorce rate is high. If the churches are preaching messages that enable women to divorce and take the children and at the same time degrade the man, the possibility of a dignified and stable marriage for a man is very low.

Have you seen this? It is a video of preecher Mark Driscoll hysterically shaming and blaming men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaeAkJO0w8

This guy is a real piece of shit. I can imagine he tries to score with the guys;’ girlfriends who come to his sermons.

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Charles Martel June 12, 2012 at 11:37

ahamkara
I am reminded of that famous quote that is attributed to Jack Welch… there is no work-life balance, only work-life choices, and they have consequences.

Another quote allegedly attributed to Jack Welch – don’t ask me how I know: If you can’t control your wife you can’t run a GE business.”

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Aoonymous June 12, 2012 at 11:43

In case of divorce, a greater majority of men will get full-custody of their children if they proposed to pay child support to ex-wife regardless of the father having full custody. To women, children are just another pawn in the extortion game of custody battle. That’s what one might think, after reading such books as “The Manipulated Man”.

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cooterbee June 12, 2012 at 11:48

“If you look around the internet you can see the pre-father’s day shaming campaign beginning. We will hear it all again about how fathers should “man up” and how shameful it is that these deadbeats choose not to be in their children’s lives.”

Perhaps rightly so and just maybe we should join them. Having been through the buzz saw of family court, I don’t say this lightly but fatherhood is, in deed, shameful because only the stupidest of dumb jackasses wind up as one when the risks are so widely known. Show me a loving involved father and I’ll show you a pussified retard. It’s that simple.

Even in situations such as entrapment, are no excuse for interacting with a child. One should do only what is forced. Any more is a disgrace and repudiation of all honor.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 15
dragnet June 12, 2012 at 11:58

It’s interesting—feminists are always pushing for guys to be more sensitive, soft, emotive (i.e. telling us it’s okay to be stay-at-home dads and what not) . At the same time, they are cheering that more women are becoming primary breadwinners…and that in doing so they are thrusting themselves into workplace environments where muted emotionality, power, prestige and toughness are the core values.

Turns out traditional masculine values are only fine when women display them. People like Angyal’s dad probably thought they were part of new vanguard of trendy and respect Mr. Moms—but really they were just suckers who sold their testicles down the river.

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ahamkara June 12, 2012 at 12:04

@Charles Martel

When I figure out how do to that, I’ll be a wealthy man indeed.

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Uncle Elmer June 12, 2012 at 12:07

“What are the chances that Chloe Angyal’s Ma was rogering every bad boy in the office whilst daddy was immersed in hair care?…”

Well, that would have been particularly egregious as Dad was so dedicated to helping Chloe and friends prepare for their dance recitals.

I’ll bet he had a nice van for carting them all around to practice and competitions.

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J June 12, 2012 at 12:11

Women everywhere seem to think that by making men into women, they can then critique us on what being a woman is.

I don’t care to study, or be graded on my lack of progress. If I kiss my son on the cheek, and play with him as fathers should, I care nothing of what anyone thinks. I raise my boy as his father sees fit! I don’t come equipped with the tits for nurturing otherwise.

The fact that as a former military man, I can sow, shine my own boots, iron my own clothes, make my own food (inside or outside), be efficeint in the bedroom, does not make me less of a man. It makes me more of a man!

The fact that I bathe my son, feed him, change his diaper, and clothe him occasionally on all topics DOES NOT mean I now view myself as having an mental/emotional vagina. It means that as a man, when I see a need, I take care of business. No one should be allowed to take care of my son in my stead! Feminists aim to do exactly that, while denouncing everything else we do as trivial “man work” like roofing the house, mowing the yard, cleaning everything, fixing broken crap around the house. Women don’t do this on a large scale. When women get held to task on child support for not doing this “child care” I will listen to their incesssant whining about how I don’t do the theirs enough!

Just like I will take them seriously about unfair treatment in society when they die as much at work, and in war!

Stop wasting my time with that ladies. I’m THE MAN of the house! YOU’RE MAN! Now make me a sandwhich, and be ready for me in the bedroom. Save 90% of your complaints for your lady friends who care. It is not my job to make you happy, it’s yours! It’s my job to make sure you’re safe to further us as a race, provision for said duty, and to be your comapnion in life. Smack that @$$ as necessary, and not stray with another man’s women! I am not your slave! Don’t get me angry with that. You won’t like me when you do. I shame and discipline accordingly, I am not your sissy to disrespect when you feel like it! Do your job, and I will do mine.

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Uncle Elmer June 12, 2012 at 12:15

Based on the rather negative and acrimonious commentary here I think all you guys could benefit by following Chloe’s Dad’s example and start your own dance troupe or other mentoring activity for young ladies. You need to get out of your comfort zones. Times have changed, and while the womenfolk are at the office there are no raised eyebrows over men getting involved in various formerly “girls only” venues. A decent van provides opportunity for you to volunteer for transportation duties. Make yourselves indispensable!

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LastCrucible June 12, 2012 at 12:28

@cooterbee

I’m not sure if I understand you correctly. If you’re saying that becoming a groveling, acquiescent, spineless faggot just for the ‘privilege’ to remain a part of your childrens’ lives is a “repudiation of all honor” I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve recently concluded my efforts at ‘winning’ sole legal custody of my son and have since voluntarily removed myself from his life. There will be those that disagree (I don’t give a fuck), but I refuse to become a groveling, emotional, emasculated, browbeaten puppet for some harpy-slag just to ‘see’ my children. I’d rather pray that God watch over him in my absence than allow my son to witness his father be reduced to a spineless bitch for a fucking woman. My manhood is more important to me than even my children. A man’s adherence to his convictions (of substance) and principles is more important than even his family. That is biblical. It is blasphemous and sacrilegious for a man to bow to the will of a woman, a wicked one no less. My son will see and experience me as a dignified, principled man or he won’t see me at all. (A few threads back I addressed ‘ahamkara’ on this issue.)

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Opus June 12, 2012 at 12:28

“A son’s passion for sewing, a girl’s passion to be a leader” she concludes. I predict poor sewing and even worse leading – not of course that I would believe any son wanted to sew, or that any daughter that wants to lead (that’s all of them) wants to do more than pose. Sounds delusional Misandry to me. Is this stuff serious?

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J June 12, 2012 at 12:33

I actually agree Elmer. If I had a daughter, I would learn how to do her hair, take her to different events. I disagree in that men actually found that unmanly! What father does not enjoy sharing in their children’s achievements in life? For example, how many father’s buy video cameras, now and in times past, to record their children’s events?

In regards to making myself indespensable, if a woman decides to leave me, no family court will acknowledge any of my “indispensable” traits anyways. I will have to do everything for my kids because I want to.

I hope someday this society changes for the better in that regard, but until then, I will attack any assault on manhood. Be it women, other men, homosexuality, feminism, whatever. There is a big gaping hole on what it means to be a dad/man/husband/boyfriend/businessmen. Not a whole lot of people out there willing to take the stand, yet! We all see it changing though. When it does, I will gladly stop taking my “guns” with me so often.

I am like a bat out of hell, twice as hot on it at this point. Over the past couple of years I have softened my edges a little bit. But those edges are there to cut! Their efficiency is just improving to where I cut off the wrong parts surgically, rather then kill the patient so to speak. Now I work hard to increase my “success” rate in selling the movement! I realize this may never make me popular.

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dicipres June 12, 2012 at 13:13

The feminists seem to think that they invented fatherhood and demonize any pre-feminist fathers. The lies never end.

I have at least one evidence pointing the opposite. Its a good think I remember my, very patriarchal, grandparents and the loving way both parents treat their children and grandchildren. And I also remember the influence divorce on children, after feminism filth penetrated our families.

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poochmule June 12, 2012 at 13:33

Yes, some fathers are absent by their own choice; but most of the time the evildoers are vindictive, selfish women and the corrupt family courts. They are the bastardizers. The absent fathers and the children are the victims. Yet the fathers are shamelessly blamed.
Yet the financial incentives for the giant bastard factory that is the divorce industrial complex are so deeply entrenched, that I would strongly discourage any young men from doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.
This about says it all ! I had to track my son down thru his elem school transcripts to find out what state / city he was living in. Served her papers 3 times before I could get to a courtroom and get hammered down like dog shit in about 10 minutes. I am beginning to wonder if it is worth the fight, I know the outcome before it begins. Men have to fight for little visitation and get nailed for ridiculous amounts of child support. If your visitation is disrupted NO one cares, if your child support is interupted you will be reminded that you will go to jail.

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LastCrucible June 12, 2012 at 13:55

OT: Examples of men of honor and dignity it film:

Denzel Washington in “Book of Eli”
Laurence Fishburne in “Boyz in the Hood”
Liam Neeson in “Rob Roy”
Ben Kingsley in “House of Sand and Fog”

House of Sand and Fog is in a class of its own in regards to its awesome portrayal of the proper relationship dynamic between man and woman in the context of an intimate relationship and family.

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LastCrucible June 12, 2012 at 13:59

OT:

If any of you decide to view House of Sand and Fog pay close attention to Ben Kingsley and his wife (ideal) vs the white dude and his deranged bitch (typical American dynamic).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5
Towgunner June 12, 2012 at 14:03

Without question the most adjusted and successful people I know come from in-tact nuclear families, male and female and a male headed family. Alternatively, the angst I observe with gen x and beyond is largely attributed to rampant divorce. Men and women alike of namely the baby boomers have spoken and an orgasm is of greater worth than their children. As a child of a divorced family, I will pull rank here – I know. This is beyond evil, re-defining family; exempting fathers etc, just because it fit the feminist agenda…feminism is based on a selfishness, envy and spite. There is nothing noble about feminism. They want to do harm to other people, mainly men. And there obsession over this is so great and their selfishness so complete, they’ll use kids as tools to see this end through. It’s sick. Mathematically, there is not enough time in the day for a single parent, male or female, to raise a kid let alone multiple kids effectively. But, why expect anything noble from today’s culture, shoot they have a tv show with a toddler drinking out of a huge phallus. women are completely un-fit to be members of society. I think those evil ole patriarchical men of yore knew something…a sexual hierarchy isn’t one born out of dominance, its born out of pure necessity.

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greyghost June 12, 2012 at 14:18

Uncle Elmer
Speaking of movies. You need to check out Little Children. Old stay at home dad was doing the job. I have a job that has me off from work during the work week. On some rare accasions I’ll be at the mall or a park with my kids and come across all of the SAHM types with their hostages.

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Uncle Elmer June 12, 2012 at 14:44

I wasn’t talking about the movies, it was LastCrucible. I know, it’s easy to get us confused.

Denzel Washington, the Black “Tom Hanks”.

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greyghost June 12, 2012 at 14:48

walking in hell
Dalrock did an article on that asshole too. driskol is a white knight and these fellas are the manginas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uRIMUBnvw This is a oldy but always something to remember.

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Andrew S. June 12, 2012 at 14:54

I had a hard driving, workaholic, emotionally distant father. Yes, I wish he had been a little easier to get along with, and spent more time with me. But given the choice between my dad or some new aged feminist twit for a father the choice is pretty easy.

So yeah, the typical “evil patriarchal” dad is not always going to do right, and will make many mistakes. But any boy growing up with a father who is a feminist is going to have no idea how to act in any other way but one that sucks up to women constantly. Basically his life will only be about pleasing women. At least with a father who rides your ass and tries to make you understand the world for what it is you won’t let women run your life, or at least you will be a little bit more ready for what is basically a patriarchal society.

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Anon June 12, 2012 at 14:54

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.”
Robert Heinlein

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W.F. Price June 12, 2012 at 15:00

@ Anon

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Jerry June 12, 2012 at 15:11

Or master of all trades, jack of none.

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Anon June 12, 2012 at 15:11

@WF Price

I wonder whether or not you’ve met any of the exceptional people, who have mastered a variety of trades. Also, if you can’t learn the basics of most of the above activities in a week or two, you’re not very focused.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6
Skeptic June 12, 2012 at 15:39

It’s pathetic the way feminists are trying to co-opt the fact that many men have decided to be more connected, less distant parents to their kids. I did, and it had nothing to do with feminism at all. Still it didn’t factor into the femily caught$ which aided and abetted my son’s alienation from me at divorce time. My story is common to millions of other guys too.
The idea of feminism being good for fatherhood – what a sick joke!

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W.F. Price June 12, 2012 at 15:40

I wonder whether or not you’ve met any of the exceptional people, who have mastered a variety of trades.

-Anon

No, actually, I have not. I have met people who have mastered a couple trades, but they were conceptually related (e.g. engineering and programming), so hardly a “variety.”

And even in that case each trade tends to detract from mastery of the other, as with Bo Jackson, who wore himself out by trying to play both baseball and football professionally.

woggy June 12, 2012 at 16:39

“it keeps men trapped too: stoic, always in charge, and forever looking to score.”
News for you honey, they’re still trying to score. They’re just scaling the marble steps of Temple VaJayjay on bare, bloody knees. It’s called being supplicant and pussy whipped.
Women didn’t like it when they thought they had to dance on the head of a pin just to please a man. Men don’t like the reverse, which is why they’re avoiding marriage.

” When men become parents, those same stereotypical boxes stop them from taking parental leave ”
How many women would really admire and respect a man who took three months off when a child is born?
This woman’s effeminate, pussy whipped father, has her totally confused.
Nice job, Dad.
” or supporting a son’s passion for, say, sewing”
Any son of mine would be too busy learning to do things that can earn him a living. Odds are that sewing won’t get him too far – unless having dozens of women put him in “the friend zone” is to be hailed as a life accomplishment.

“or a daughter’s desire to be a leader.”
Apparently, she thinks that people who sew can’t be leaders.
Anyway people who want to be leaders can do it on their own – that’s one mark of real leadership.
Furthermore, there are scores of female “leaders” who were propped by Daddy that have resolved to put every other man on earth through hell.
I couldn’t bear the guilt.

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Anon June 12, 2012 at 16:56

I have: for example, the surgeon who is also a concert-quality pianist and a scratch golfer.

If I remember correctly, after the above quote Heinlein states “Specialization is for insects”‘, which I think is his main point.

Also, more to the point of the article, feminists have created a culture in which asking a woman to cook for you is equivalent to the white slave owner demanding that one of his slaves serve him. And of course, if some task is too demeaning for women, men aren’t going to do it either.

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Dad June 12, 2012 at 17:26

You can be whoever you want but it seems that you are only stereotyping yourself as an incomplete parent incapable of basic child care simply because it is deemed to be womens work.

You’ve also given credit to feminist claims of making fathers more caring and nurturing and discredited fathers for being capable of that themselves without any assistance from feminists.

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LastCrucible June 12, 2012 at 17:29

@woggy

Brilliant.

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W.F. Price June 12, 2012 at 17:59

You can be whoever you want but it seems that you are only stereotyping yourself as an incomplete parent incapable of basic child care simply because it is deemed to be womens work.

You’ve also given credit to feminist claims of making fathers more caring and nurturing and discredited fathers for being capable of that themselves without any assistance from feminists.

-Dad

Dad, you missed my point. I’ve changed at least a thousand diapers. I’ve fed my kids from a bottle when they were infants. I’ve dressed them and cared for them. I’ve cooked countless meals. There’s nothing that makes a guy less of a man for doing these very basic, simple parenting tasks.

However, expecting a man to be a mother is fundamentally wrong. I prefer letting my kids run outside and playing physically with them to dressing them up and wiping their mouths. I don’t mind if they’re barefoot and playing in the dirt. I like tossing a ball with them.

But to be quite honest, I suck at doing my daughter’s hair. I can wash it and comb it, but that’s where it ends. I also don’t want to go shopping for dresses, having tea parties, etc. I’d probably inadvertently break the china (I am not very dextrous with tiny cups and plates).

Does this mean I’m a shitty parent? Does preferring fishing, sailing and camping mean I shouldn’t have time with my kids? Because that’s exactly how family court treats it today. What a man has to offer doesn’t mean squat. My ex entered evidence against me amounting to “daughter comes home with tousled hair, and the kids have mosquito bites.” Well, I like taking them outside in the woods and letting them play there. Mosquitos are unavoidable. If that makes me a shitty parent, I guess I’m guilty.

Still, though, my daughter gets really excited about camping, running around outside and climbing trees. My son loves being on the water, chucking rocks, fishing and shooting off rockets. These are the things I have to offer that their mother doesn’t. Kids like them.

There’s nothing inferior about what conventional dads do. I do not have to be a mother to be a parent. No man should.

Dad June 12, 2012 at 18:13

I have two daughters and I’ve made sure that I’ve been involved in everything including camping, fishing, doing their hair and buying them dresses. Why? Because we also like to get dressed up sometimes and I don’t need a woman’s assistance to do such basic tasks.

It doesn’t take much skill for any person to learn. It’s not a feminist activity, I didn’t learn it from feminists and it’s not mother’s work, it’s simple parenting.

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Eric June 12, 2012 at 18:48

Price:

I nearly burst out laughing, reading these two Entitlement Princesses gushing over their mangina father-figure. I’ve met plenty of women who’ve grown up in ‘progressive’ households. Bet you can’t guess what kinds of boyfriends they invariably have?

Yup. You guessed correctly. The kind of scum that wouldn’t even be welcome in a Tent City.

These guys never learn. Feminism instills in women a hatred of men. These women hate their dads for being weaklings and these guys only reinforce that contempt.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
Eric June 12, 2012 at 18:52

Dad:
Just out of curiosity, what does the girls’ mother actually do? I’m not arguing against your involvement with your daughters; but just from your description, it sounds like you’re taking on a lot of things that the mother should be doing.

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Eric June 12, 2012 at 19:09

Uncle Elmer:

Re: ‘Taking the Sting Out of the Queen Bee Myth’.

Ugh…Fairy Godmothers and Queen Bees… The future of Corporate America is looking darker and darker all the time.

We’ve seen what a disaster-area feminism has turned Academia and the Media into. Wait until these harridans get their claws on Wall Street. Even Socialism would look benign by comparison.

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Thos June 12, 2012 at 20:32

About that study proclaiming that men who have stay at home wives are sexist. The conclusions of the study are based on a 2,500-person survey.

Of whom, 86 were selected.

These 86 were cross referenced with a similar number from another survey, which was then also compared with a 300-ish person survey to get to the conclusion.

Research methodologies for social ‘sciences’ are not my area of expertise, so maybe this is considered valid.

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Poester99 June 12, 2012 at 22:00

Being skilled at many things is very masculine, because it is the essence of independence.

Being dependent on others for stupid little things you can learn in a few hours is foolish, and it makes you more vulnerable to manipulation.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
Gina June 13, 2012 at 02:52

Ben Kingsley and his wife (ideal)

His character murders his wife. How is that an “ideal” relationship?

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Art Vandelay June 13, 2012 at 03:35

or supporting a son’s passion for, say, sewing, or a daughter’s desire to be a leader.

That sounds oddly sexist for someone who is supposedly “progressive”.

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Towgunner June 13, 2012 at 07:03

“or supporting a son’s passion for, say, sewing, or a daughter’s desire to be a leader.”

If we look at the abstract bell curve of men and women, this statement is ridiculous. The simple fact of the matter is that people left on their own, as in no oppressive hyper-linked and high-def manipulation, the overwhelming distribution of females will tend to sewing etc and the overwhelming distribution of males will tend to masculine things such as sports, hunting etc. And is it really the best thing for your son to pursue sewing or feminine things? After all, women openly do not respect men like this, in fact they poke fun at them, stereotype and discriminate. So, unless you want your son to live a second class life, it’s within a Dad’s interest and the interest of the male child to be persuaded not to follow that path. This reminds me of the utter hypocrisy of today’s “be yourself culture” where some “expert” says be yourself at all times to a group of kids but after noticing that the boys go right for the Tonka and fire trucks and the girls to the dolls, directly intervenes and puts the trucks with the girls and the dolls with the boys. It follows that today no one today can be themselves unless they fall in a minority category or, in terms of the bell curve, in the tails. Is it any wonder why everyone in america is on drugs?
If worth adding that any female wanting to be a “leader” is a direct and deliberate function of media manipulation. Go turn on the tv right now, if you don’t believe me. All female characters, even in supporting roles, must be markedly better than males (to the point where the male is hopelessly inferior) and are always the division heads or, in many shows, the potus. This is what social engineering looks like. So, I’d say it’s not your daughters ambition to be a leader, because it’s now every daughters ambition that’s what the tv is telling them to be. It’s that simple. And now we have many women who were programmed by this coming to the harsh realization that they never wanted to be a division head, leader, i-banker and would be more happy volunteering at a local soup kitchen and, yes, staying at home with the kids.

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Anonymous Reader June 13, 2012 at 07:43

Welmer
There’s nothing inferior about what conventional dads do. I do not have to be a mother to be a parent. No man should.

But that’s one of the major points of feminism: Men Bad, Women Good. Therefore, it’s bad for boys to be boys, and good for girls to be whatever they want to be. And so it’s bad for men to be fathers, and good for women to be whatever they want to be. Because Fathers Bad, Mothers Good.

It’s that simple. And no matter what a man does, it is never good enough for a vindictive, spiteful, hate-fueled woman or a feminist (but I repeat myself).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
"The One" June 13, 2012 at 09:27

Pirran wrote “What are the chances that Chloe Angyal’s Ma was rogering every bad boy in the office whilst daddy was immersed in hair care?”

I’d say she was being rogered by them, rather than rogering them herself.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Towgunner June 13, 2012 at 09:51

“or supporting a son’s passion for, say, sewing, or a daughter’s desire to be a leader.”

If we look at the abstract bell curve of men and women, this statement is ridiculous. The simple fact of the matter is that people left on their own, as in no oppressive hyper-linked and high-def manipulation, the overwhelming distribution of females will tend to sewing etc and the overwhelming distribution of males will tend to masculine things such as sports, hunting etc. And is it really the best thing for your son to pursue sewing or feminine things? After all, women openly do not respect men like this, in fact they poke fun at them, stereotype and discriminate. So, unless you want your son to live a second class life, it’s within a Dad’s interest and the interest of the male child to be persuaded not to follow that path. This reminds me of the utter hypocrisy of today’s “be yourself culture” where some “expert” says be yourself at all times to a group of kids but after noticing that the boys go right for the Tonka and fire trucks and the girls to the dolls, directly intervenes and puts the trucks with the girls and the dolls with the boys. It follows that today no one today can be themselves unless they fall in a minority category or, in terms of the bell curve, in the tails. Is it any wonder why everyone in america is on drugs?
If worth adding that any female wanting to be a “leader” is a direct and deliberate function of media manipulation. Go turn on the tv right now, if you don’t believe me. All female characters, even in supporting roles, must be markedly better than males (to the point where the male is hopelessly inferior) and are always the division heads or, in many shows, the potus. This is what social engineering looks like. So, I’d say it’s not your daughters ambition to be a leader, because it’s now every daughters ambition that’s what the tv is telling them to be. It’s that simple. And now we have many women who were programmed by this coming to the harsh realization that they never wanted to be a division head, leader, i-banker and would be more happy volunteering at a local soup kitchen and, yes, staying at home with the kids.

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Sun June 13, 2012 at 10:10

Anon June 12, 2012 at 14:54
“‘A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.’
Robert Heinlein”

Sun Tzu is apparently equal to Oprah because, hey, lets face it, they’re “human beings.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Sun June 13, 2012 at 10:15

“Anon June 12, 2012 at 16:56

Also, more to the point of the article, feminists have created a culture in which asking a woman to cook for you is equivalent to the white slave owner demanding that one of his slaves serve him. And of course, if some task is too demeaning for women, men aren’t going to do it either.”

Feminist are women who are ashamed of being women and so are trying to become essentially men by claiming it is all socially constructed.

Feminist have created a semi hostile culture where gender war is brewing on the basis of extreme individualism.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Sun June 13, 2012 at 10:23

“Meet Your New Mother: Your Father”

If fathers and mothers can be whomever they want to be why would you label your tile “meet your new mother: your father?” As if father has to be a mother to do thing activities portrayed as motherhoood?

Sounds pretty derogatory too.

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Georice81 June 13, 2012 at 10:51

A few years ago a pastor gave as part of his sermon an anecdote that was very interesting. A group of 4 year old kids was segregated by sex and put in different rooms. The girls had boy toys while the boys had dolls.

The girls decided to push all that junk to a corner, sat down, and started pretending having a tea party.

The boys thought that the dolls were cool. They all took one and proceeded to drag race them through the room as if though they were cars. Limbs came off and the hairs were pulled but they did their jobs.

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Opus June 13, 2012 at 11:09

Going back to the piece by Chloe Angyal quoted above, where she says that boys might sew but women might be leaders; it is clear what sewing is and there might even be a leader of Sewers, but what exactly is leading?

To lead you need followers but what do those followers do? In other words, leading (unlike sewing) is not an occupation. It appears to me therefore that Chloe Angyal is drifting off into some fantasy of female supremacy where she hasn’t the faintest idea what the girl might do, (other than be pedestalled) but of one thing we can be sure, it will be something for which women are utterly unsuited for and entirely useless at.

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WGMOW June 13, 2012 at 19:34

So while the new-age father is doing his girl’s hair and talking about his feelings, who is teaching the kiddies about traditional male values? Values like honesty, bravery, strength, intelligence, a work ethic, the drive to succeed? Who is teaching them to make wise choices, weigh information, judge character? Who? Not the mothers, with their eternal yammer about their goddam feeeelings.

However, I still think that the majority of men don’t fall for this drivel and will still do their damndest to make sure their sons grow up wise and strong. And if they don’t have so much influence on their daughters – to hell with the daughters. Let the mothers take the fall for their daughters’ failures.

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sestamibi June 14, 2012 at 10:30

I wonder how old Chloe is, if she has any kids, and if (most likely) not, if she ever will have any.

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SixStringsForever June 15, 2012 at 10:05

Well said WGMOW,
I’ve encountered men who didn’t have a father but raised by a single mother.
What I noticed was that these men for the most part have little concept of traditional male values,there’s certainly no work ethic or interest in gaining any kind of employment combined with low educational achievement-instead there’s a deeply entrenched welfare culture and no ambition to speak off.
It’s tragic to watch.

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Josh the Aspie June 15, 2012 at 10:12

On the subject of sewing, I sew my own equipment for the combat sports I play, and repair my own clothes when I have the time.

During ages of greater self-reliance, most men, in addition to their own primary profession, knew how to repair at least some portion of their own gear. Further, for long periods of history, most professional clothes makers were men. How is fixing (or even customizing for utility) stuff that happens to be made out of cloth un-manly? How is making myself less dependent on others for basic needs un-manly?

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Jean Valjean June 15, 2012 at 13:13

She cites “sexism” as the reason men don’t take a greater role in family life.

I think the word she should be using is “hypergamy”. Women’s insistence that a man can only be a potential mate if he makes more money than she does is what forces men to work when the could be with family.

Sexism has always been what men do to women and as always Chloe uses the term to imply there is something wrong with men rather than something wrong with women.

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urb June 16, 2012 at 03:55

dont marry or have children with a feminist = no problem.

see where that gets em

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