Feminists Frothing Over Vatican Crackdown

by W.F. Price on June 11, 2012

As the Vatican cleans house in the US and Catholic organizations oppose provisions of Obamacare, media outlets in the US have gone on the offensive by dredging up more of the sex abuse scandal and making a mountain out of the molehill of a scandal that has emerged concerning the pope’s butler.

Although there is a lot of distrust of the Catholic church in the US (which goes back a long, long way), I’m happy to see it finally taking a stand. One of the reasons I stopped going to church was the strange interpretation of Catholicism in Seattle, which was possibly the most radically liberal archdiocese on earth. When I was a child, local churches would hold fund drives for the Sandinistas, join anti-nuclear protests that were all but orchestrated by Bolsheviks, and host PRIDE rallies. What they got away with was breathtaking. After years of this behavior, Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, personally handled the problems with our local archdiocese, forcing the removal of archbishop Raymond Hunthausen, who presided over the transformation of the local church to something resembling the contemporary Episcopal Church, which is all but dead.

Speaking of the Episcopal Church, I have some perspective on this institution as well, having been raised attending a Catholic Church with one set of grandparents, and an Episcopalian Church with the other. What happened to the Episcopal Church in the US is a terrible shame. I actually preferred the Episcopal liturgy to Vatican II services in Roman Catholic churches, and I still remember the hymns from Episcopalian summer school. I’m afraid Anglo Americans have lost a great deal of their heritage thanks to the lack of spine on the part of the Episcopalian leadership. The Episcopal Church leaders cast themselves as “courageous” for going along with prevailing fads, but in fact they look like cowardly weaklings in hindsight.

Perhaps the Catholics finally woke up to the threat posed by dilution of the church’s core messages. From an outside perspective, a lot of the church’s teachings look like so much superstition and myth, but one of the characteristics of a successful faith is that its members hold beliefs that bond them together, whether rational or not. As soon as leaders of the faith start rejecting doctrine and tailoring the message to suit the outside culture, members begin to feel there is no longer any point in adhering to it. But with many mainline Christian churches, they took it a step farther, and began to reject their own scripture, which is even more alienating to believers. Why go to church if the church itself admits that what it is teaching is so much bull?

So one would expect any church that cares to preserve itself to take measures to defend its beliefs and hold true to them. However, now that the Catholic Church has begun to do so, a very loud noise has begun to emanate from a number of people who seem to have thought that they were entitled not only to defy doctrine, but to be supported by the church in doing so. Many of them are feminists, including among them a number of lesbian nuns. Perhaps most prominent among them is Margaret Farley, a lesbian nun and professor at Yale divinity school.

Sr. Farley has published a number of books on sexuality, including one that argues that lesbian relationships are not fundamentally different from heterosexual marriage, which directly contradicts the church that has fostered her for decades. Farley’s book “Just Love” was recently censured by the Vatican, in a rare move that indicates a clear new opposition to the unchecked feminism that had been tolerated for nearly 40 years.

In response, female columnists around the nation have been raging at the church. Maureen Dowd, who has taken up something of a feminist crusade against the Catholic Church in recent years, took a swipe, and Lisa Miller of the Washington Post denounced cardinals in a particularly misleading, puerile screed:

Members of the Vatican hierarchy are using the word “feminist” and even “radical feminist” the way third-graders use the word “cooties.” In April, the Vatican accused the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which represents 57,000 nuns nationwide, of allowing “radical feminist” ideas to flow unchecked in their communities. In 2008, after launching an investigation against American nuns (the results of which have not yet been released), Cardinal Franc Rode told a radio interviewer that the nuns are suspected of “certain irregularities,” a “secular mentality” and “perhaps also a certain feminist spirit.”

The authors of these rebukes never define “feminism” or “radicalism.” In their hands, these words, which can carry legitimate intellectual meanings, appear to signify something like: “Yucky women who fail to heed our instructions and, anyway, don’t meet our standards of womanhood.” In other words, the sisters aren’t behaving as girls should.

Commenters on both articles decry the “misogyny” of the patriarchal church, and ask why it can’t get with the times. Again, one need only look to the example of the Episcopal Church, which did get with the times, and then proceeded to give up the ghost.

The fact is that patriarchy works, and always has. It’s the reason the Catholic Church, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and, yes, even Buddhism (the Dalai Lama is not a feminist; there are no female lamas) are still around.

If feminists reject the patriarchy and “misogyny” of major religions, they have the option of simply rejecting them and starting their own faiths. If so many people feel as they do, they should have great success attracting faithful followers. Obviously, this is not the case, so rather than simply accepting that their own ideology is contrary to human nature, they attempt to strong-arm the institution into caving to their demands, and for some time had great success doing so.

But now the tide has shifted, and the water is coming back in to cover the weeds on the beach. Feminists are furious, and are making a terrible fuss, but their twilight time is here. Taking a stand against feminism has finally started to come to the mainstream.

{ 90 comments… read them below or add one }

cybro June 11, 2012 at 09:25

If this is what feminist would call a crackdown I would like to see what would happen if Rome did decide to actually crackdown on some of these lunatics that have infested the Catholic Church over the past 50 or 6o years.

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They Call Me Dave June 11, 2012 at 09:32

Personally, I think a major purge would do nothing but help the RC Church. I would sooner have a diminished band of faithful followers that a large band with no cohesiveness and committement.

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Ollie June 11, 2012 at 09:37

It’s about time. Perhaps maybe the RCC leadership has figured out that the only way they could ever make the fembots happy is to curl up and die. You can’t bargain with a morally bankrupt ideology like cultural marxism any more than you can talk virulent bacteria into playing nice.

If this is a sign of things to come from the Catholic church, I may very well consider converting.

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Opus June 11, 2012 at 09:39

Almost makes one want to become a Roman Catholic! Time to bring back the Index (although most of my favourite books seem to have been on it). ;)

When I was State-side I came across a few Catholic Priests and Nuns who gave the appearance that they would have been happier with Che Guevara or Susan B Anthony. Ye gods.

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Matt Strictland June 11, 2012 at 10:09

The Catholic Church is right to make a stand however given the Churches own situations, I am reminded of Matthew 7:3

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye

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JoeS June 11, 2012 at 10:12

Don’t be deceived. This is really just a matter of preventing the worst excesses. These feminist “nuns” are probably some of the most furious anti-Catholics out there, they literally hate the Church.

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Rebel June 11, 2012 at 10:21

And what about this “crazy” notion:

Since the real purpose of feminism is to introduce a wedge between men and women, why not split the Catholic church in two?
One part consisting strictly of women with their own popess, their own saints and their own sacraments and one strictly for men, pretty much the way the church is set today.

Then men and women could really go their own way: not only in physical life but also on the spiritual level. The breakup would be complete.

Then there would be no more reason for discord. Since “mankind” is actually splitting into two species, why not speed the process?

And it would have the added benefit of reducing the world human population down to a trickle, thereby “saving” the planet.

I know that this sounds ludicrous but let’s keep in mind the actual state of our species with a permanent gender war. Aren’t we all sick and tired of that war? Isn’t it time to just split and call off all hostilities?

Isn’t it high time to understand that there is no solution to the conflict?

The concept of MGTOW is probably just the beginning of a much bigger process.

Already there exists the concept of WGTOW. Isn’t this a sure sign that something big is in the air?

Most of the great movements that have been humanity’s destiny have been started by men, with women soon following suit.

The “old world” is either dead or dying. Many of us here have suggested that the old order should be dealt with quickly and something new be rebuilt. Isn’t this the way to go?

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Mojo June 11, 2012 at 10:33

“Commenters on both articles decry the “misogyny” of the patriarchal church, and ask why it can’t get with the times.”

This always makes me facepalm. The church is not SUPPOSED to ‘get with the times.’ It is supposed to teach eternal, unchanging truth. It is not supposed to conform to the fashions of the world.

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Mojo June 11, 2012 at 10:35

“Since the real purpose of feminism is to introduce a wedge between men and women, why not split the Catholic church in two?
One part consisting strictly of women with their own popess, their own saints and their own sacraments and one strictly for men, pretty much the way the church is set today.”

Because the popess-followers would say it’s not equal until they get half the Vatican …

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Matt June 11, 2012 at 10:43

Matt at 10:09
That is true, but we have to start somewhere, and part of the beam in the CC eye, IMHO, was a blind eye to what the Rad fem nuns and so called “progressive” Bishops and Cardinals allowed to happen.

The poison of liberation theology, while simultaneously allowing openly homosexual priests, and lesbian nuns to represent the church in its schools and universities and as media spokesman for the church.

The result of all this was allowing the resulting sexual politics to influence doctrine as it was understood by the Laity. I believe this is what brought the church to the point it is in today. God bless Pope Benedict and his holy crusade.

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Anti Idiocy June 11, 2012 at 10:52

While some priests were sexually abusing children (mostly boys), the nuns (a high percentage of them) were viciously, violently abusing children (almost exclusively boys). The world is outraged over the abuse perpetrated by the priests, yet shows no interest in the violence committed by the nuns.

Gee. I wonder why that is…

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universe June 11, 2012 at 11:00

If feminists reject the patriarchy and “misogyny” of major religions, they have the option of simply rejecting them and starting their own faiths. If so many people feel as they do, they should have great success attracting faithful followers. Obviously, this is not the case, so rather than simply accepting that their own ideology is contrary to human nature, they attempt to strong-arm the institution into caving to their demands, and for some time had great success doing so.
– Nailed it…shut.

The true nature of femnists and many females revealed – meddling in the affairs of others.
But, prepare the wooden stakes for any future dark lurkings within the CC. Daylight is about to be upon us.

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Matt June 11, 2012 at 11:02

Anti Idiocy 10:52 I think the abuse you are citing, was when corporal punishment was the norm in schools, and Parochial schools in particular. This is not to excuse it, as at times it was excessive, and probably driven by a dislike of men and boys in particular by some nuns who had a problem. But IMHO that was more a product of the times and not Nuns in particular. Feminism gave the man-hater nuns another outlet in the church to cause harm.

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Al Thompson June 11, 2012 at 11:12

The best thing to do it to stay away from government and religious organizations. They’ll suck your intelligence right out of your head and leave you alone as a useless heap of nothing. Just keep God’s commandments and try to build up your own character and leave the nonsense behind. These organizations are detrimental to living a happy life.
http://verydumbgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/05/defenseless-population.html

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David V June 11, 2012 at 11:22

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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MKP June 11, 2012 at 11:44

The bad news is that the Christian chruch and its various denominations are, at best, a waste of time and, at worst, a ruthless system of manipulating men into making decisions that expose them to misery and ruin. The good news is that large and increasing number of men have woken up to the scam, especially men under 30.

I have no idea whether Pope Benedict XVI and his underlings are actually serious about this purge / crackdown, and are truly committed to rooting out radical feminism and female superiority in the church. But I’m inclined to say it doesn’t matter – things have already gone too far.

Don’t take my word for it. Visit web-sites where pastors, deacons, church-youth-group leaders, etc. have discussions about their flocks. You’ll see the same questions raised again and again: where are all the men? Why do young women outnumber young men so badly in the church? Why have young men turned their backs on “the Word?” Where are our Christian daughters going to find Christian husbands? Doing what childish people the world over always do – asking questions they don’t really want to hear the answer to.

This ^ is all in reference to the situation in the USA, I don’t know how things stand in other countries. But if you live in the USA and are hoping for a rebirth of a strict and manly Christianity, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

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Anti Idiocy June 11, 2012 at 12:39

@Matt “I think the abuse you are citing, was when corporal punishment was the norm in schools, and Parochial schools in particular. ”

I was one of the boys who received the beatings. I can assure you, it was not the norm in greater society — it wasn’t punishment. We were beaten for any excuse that came to the nuns’ minds. Also, I knew boys who were in public school and private schools not taught by nuns. They never told of being beaten, and I’m sure they would have when I told them of the beatings that the boys suffered at the hands of the nuns.

“IMHO that was more a product of the times and not Nuns in particular.”

It was largely a product of the nuns. By fourth grade, I had noticed that the nuns would become extremely vicious for several days and then calm down for three or four days before becoming extremely violent again. At the time I knew nothing of the female hormonal cycle.

“probably driven by a dislike of men and boys in particular”

Without a doubt. I never saw a nun hit a girl.

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Anti Idiocy June 11, 2012 at 12:49

“I had noticed that the nuns would become extremely vicious for several days and then calm down for three or four days before becoming extremely violent again.”

Sorry, that should be “I had noticed that the nuns would become extremely vicious for several days and then calm down for three or four weeks before becoming extremely violent again.”

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Tim June 11, 2012 at 12:56

Solid post, Welmer. I was also raised Catholic, and found the acoustic-guitar playing, camp-fire themed youth groups lacking in…gravitas. Why go to Catholic Mass if it resembles Woodstock?

I’m glad to see the One True Church keep the faith. I wouldn’t mind hearing a little more latin, too. As for the lesbian nun…see ya!

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GS Jockey June 11, 2012 at 13:24

@ Rebel: “Already there exists the concept of WGTOW. Isn’t this a sure sign that something big is in the air?”

Wouldn’t that be a sight to see? Wouln’t that be awesome if women actually DID go their own way and leave us alone? Anybody care to lay bets on how long before Big Government collapses under their weight and the women come crawling back looking for a man to take care of them?

Never forget: Throughout all of recorded history, nothing of consequence was ever invented by a woman.

GS Jockey

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Eric June 11, 2012 at 13:29

MKP:

‘Visit websites where pastors, deacons,…question where are all the men?…this is all in reference to the situation in the USA.’

Yup. Exactly. This is the Socon version of feminism laid bare. People doubt there is a cultural connection between Puritan ethics and Marxist feminism but quotes like those show their connection pretty clearly.

Contrast that with the Catholic Church’s entrenched patriarchy and emphesis on gender polarity. What do think would happen to any of those pastors if they started saying that the problem with Protestantism was that it pedestalized women too much, and started calling for a drive to recruit more males to reduce female dominance in their churches? I think the Socon Sisterhood would react even more furiously than the feminist nuns!

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Eric June 11, 2012 at 13:34

Price:
LOL these feminist hypocrites complaining about the Vatican’s purge is laughable. What kind of purges does anyone think would take place if the feminists came in control of the Church?

Why don’t the feminists writers here mention the purges they themselves have carried out in every institution they’ve ever come to dominate? Keyster’s pointed out how these purges are already happening in the military; Uncle Elmer’s pointing them out in Corporate America; they’ve already happened on a large scale in the media, government, and academia.

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"The One" June 11, 2012 at 13:40

This is good news. The Feminists are wailing and gnashing their teeth over this. This is very good news indeed.

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MKP June 11, 2012 at 13:56

@ Eric

I certainly include priests, Catholic leaders, and the Catholic church in the same group.

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Poester99 June 11, 2012 at 13:57

The Catholic Church is right to make a stand however given the Churches own situations, I am reminded of Matthew 7:3

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye

They are dealing with the “beam”, that is the point of this.
Since the road to hell is paved with good intentions, you not only have to have good intentions, you have to be *right*, as well.

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Towgunner June 11, 2012 at 14:02

Good stuff, Catholics need to stand up. Now, whether you’re a Catholic or a Christian of a different sect, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, even an atheist…follow the lead, you don’t have to change your views or repent. That’s not what this is about. The precedent is set…Do likewise and resist!

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keyster June 11, 2012 at 14:07

Wow, an institution that’s inferring it’s actually not afraid of the Feminists; like Augusta National. How long will they hold their ground? Will the Catholic Church be the vehicle that breaks it all open? I’m sure they looked at the Episcopal situation and saw it happening to them. This will take strong leadership from the Vatican.

WHEREVER there’s male dominance or patriarchy, feminists will infiltrate it and destroy it. It’s their master plan.

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American June 11, 2012 at 14:22

The American Gender, Gender-Raunch community like to say “We are forward, we got Americas youth”, and i would like to add, maybe 5 years ago you did. The new generation of college girls are looking at their lonely, violent, stinky Raunch lesbians, and are turning away. As the girls turn away from Gender, Gender-Raunch; the young men will soon fallow.
As Ariel levy says in her book about Raunch culture feminism, Raunch culture feminism will be, (and is) the straw that broke the camels back of feminism.

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American June 11, 2012 at 14:28

David , Oh cont-rare , If the Vatican adapts to neo American Gender-Raunch values it is dead.

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AndrewV June 11, 2012 at 15:01

@Anti Idiocy June 11, 2012 at 10:52

the nuns (a high percentage of them) were viciously, violently abusing children (almost exclusively boys).

While I am an aethist with no quarrel with people of faith, this is the reason why I kept my children away from the Catholics. In my experience there is nothing more vicious than a bog Irish Catholic Nun.

Twenty years later, I went back to the convent and literally danced on the grave of my chief tormenter. I would name names, but it was many years ago, in a different country, and the fiends are all dead.

If heaven and hell really exist, may they burn in the fires for eternity, so mote it be.

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AndrewV June 11, 2012 at 15:04

@Matt June 11, 2012 at 11:02

It was not just whencorporal punishment was the norm in schools, in those days a whipping in school was followed by one at home if your parents heard of it.

Just as bad if not worse was the psychological abuse that preceded and accompanied it. The nuns of my childhood tried to crush the spirit of every boy they got their hands on, by whatever means they had.

Today, it is my firm belief that male children need to be kept out of the hands of women teachers. No man is a misogynist at birth, but it is easy enough to create one.

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American June 11, 2012 at 15:50

I would take a live and let live attitude about the American Gender, Gender-Raunch community, but from what i have experienced, they are the driving forces behind perversions to American law enforcement that are persecuting the innocent.

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Huck Finn June 11, 2012 at 16:36

Great piece. The tide is turning on feminism though they will continue to make inroads in many areas. Patriarchy and adherence to a traditional code and lifestyle has worked. I’m glad that the Church is starting to find its voice again and not fear alienating some left wing members and the political attacks that are occurring. Worldwide, religious denominations that are conservative are growing.

You raised a good question about why haven’t feminists simply started its own religious houses of worship. Possibly because they would be too easy to criticize and make fun of for what was going on inside of them. Women generally don’t want to sweat and sacrifice building their own houses. They would rather just legally steal them from men.

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Matt June 11, 2012 at 17:16

Andrew v and Anti idiocy: I am sorry you both had such bad experiences with those nuns. I don’t blame either of you for being angry. I still believe that you were the victims of misandry by angry and bitter women masquerading as religious. Just because they talked the talk doesn’t mean they walked the walk.

That said I; personally, have had some wonderful teachers when I was young who happened to be nuns. I was lucky, as I also had the Father Flannagan type priests growing up also. I was truly blessed. I will pray for Pope Benedict XVI and the fight he is undertaking. The feminizing/ queering of the church didn’t happen overnight so it is unreasonable to expect it to be fixed overnight as well. But as Jesus said, “with Men it it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.

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greyghost June 11, 2012 at 17:23

This always makes me facepalm. The church is not SUPPOSED to ‘get with the times.’ It is supposed to teach eternal, unchanging truth. It is not supposed to conform to the fashions of the world.
Mojo this kind of thing sails over the head of women.

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greyghost June 11, 2012 at 17:25

The RCC will be the conventional army that takes over after the rebels have weakened the beaste.

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Eric June 11, 2012 at 18:06

MKP:
Unfortunately, American and Canadian Catholic churches could be included in that group pretty easily. Feminist infiltration isn’t a problem in most other countries, but over here feminism’s Socon variation has been a problem in Catholicism too. Pope John Paul II was concerned about the problem and reproved a few officials who were getting too far out of line (among them Fox News ‘consultant’ Fr. Jonathan Morris). I don’t know whether or not Benedict has done anything about it.

The problem with tackling Socon/feminism is that the Church really has to walk a fine line. Socon /feminism is much more deeply ingrained in Anglo-American culture than Marxist/feminism; and most Socons actually consider themselves to be ‘anti-feminists’ (although they aren’t), so by fighting them the Church would have to fight a two-front battle.

So the best answer I can really give you is that the Vatican is aware of the problem and that it’s primarily a North American issue. My guess would be that they’re following the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ strategy and get rid of one problem before they deal with the other.

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greyghost June 11, 2012 at 18:32

Eric
That social consevative feminism is also what is killing the republican party and holding down the tea party. People are frustrated with liberalis. The unidentified elephant in the room is half of the “problemism” is just plain old feminism. Minorities mis call it racism,dumbass women think it is sexism from men, socons think it is liberalism, anything but pussy worship. The tea party was supposed to be real conservatives with balls and it turns out to be full of women with queen man hating momma grizzly sarah palin. It is no wonder it seems more than half the MRA’s hate politcs.

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MKP June 11, 2012 at 18:38

@ Eric

Sure, valid points. It’s an interesting comparison – the response of the Catholic church to liberal-feminist idiocy vs. the response of Protestant denominations.

On the one hand, Protestants are (generally) more completely gone down the rabbit hole of “chivalry” and “gentleman’s obligations.” When writers talk about out-of-touch religious white knights who just can’t comprehend why a man wouldn’t want to court and marry a young American woman, they’re more likely talking about Protestant leaders/pastors/thinkers. I feel like Evangelical Christian men, especially over the age of 45, are the most completely clueless as to the world young men are facing today. I’m talking in generalities, of course, there are surely exceptions.

The Protestant Church has some advantages, though, at least at its extreme edges. For one, it’s membership is still dynamic and growing in some parts of the USA (though not all), and its followers seem more willing to segregate themselves from mainstream society at large. Even physically, on some occasions. Those weird new-new Mormon polygamists in Colorado are the most extreme example, but there are numerous Pentecostal groups in small towns that home-school their kids and basically create their own little communities. Protestants also have neither the dogma that requires worship of the Virgin Mary, nor the forced reverence for nuns – both of which can be exploited by charlatans, manipulators, and run-of-the-mills psychopaths who like beating small boys (as several commentors have noted above).

Again, though, these differences in degree probably don’t matter much. I’m certainly not an expert or authority of any kind, but I do talk to a good number of young men every day, and I don’t see any indication that church(es) is/are making any kind of comeback among awake and aware young men. There’s nothing in a church for a thinking man. After what churches and church leaders have become over the past 2 decades, what kind of man would believe a church leader who says “come back to our church, we’ve abandoned the feminist ideology?” It’s like telling someone in the Warsaw Ghetto, “hop in the train – this time, it’s going somewhere good.”

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cooterbee June 11, 2012 at 19:07

Who cares what they do? Like anything else, this is between feminists and right wing ass wipes. We go our own way in any event.

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Eric June 11, 2012 at 19:22

Greyghost:
That’s an issue I bring up with GOP/Tea Party activists here all the time. I don’t think they realize how bad these Socon White-Knights are really hurting their movement. For example, Thomas Fleming, a supporter of Newt Gingrich, has a blog where he openly denounces the MRM and pedestalizes American women and calls returns to chivalry on a regular basis. He’s as bad as Futrelle. This guy needs to be called out and denounced by the Tea Party (for starts) or men aren’t going to take them seriously.

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Eric June 11, 2012 at 19:32

MKP:
Part of the Vatican’s problem is that it has one of the most lethargic bureaucracies imaginable. They have been aware of these issues for a long time—that’s why a lot of Catholics are optimistic, because we all know that when the Vatican actually DOES anything, it’s a sign that they really mean business. Now that they’ve started down this path, they won’t turn back anytime soon.

After the Episcopal Church imploded under feminism, John Paul II made an effort to reach out to conservative Anglicans, and also held some summits with Eastern Orthdox prelates to discuss the crisis feminism was causing. Benedict made a really controversial trip to Turkey a few years to meet Islamic leaders on the same topics. That shows how seriously they’re taking it. A lot of this stuff is going on at the higher levels and not being widely publicised.

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Rusty June 11, 2012 at 19:56

The Church has been in need of a large-scale exorcism for a very long time.

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Eric June 11, 2012 at 20:33

Matt:

Insteresting point about the abusive nuns. I was reminded about the recent thread on ‘Mothers Day’ and observed that the stories about abusive moms were generally worse among men under 35 years old (who grew up after feminism was fully established).

I wonder if this is also true with abusive nuns (or for that matter female schoolteachers generally)? I remember most nuns as being angelic-type women; but I’ve talked to so many younger men who’ve related stories like Andrew & Anti-Idiocy did, that I’m beginning to wonder about how widespread the damage to men who grew up under feminism actually is.

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AndrewV June 11, 2012 at 20:59

@Matt June 11, 2012 at 17:16

I am sorry you both had such bad experiences with those nuns. I don’t blame either of you for being angry. I still believe that you were the victims of misandry by angry and bitter women masquerading as religious. Just because they talked the talk doesn’t mean they walked the walk.

Not speaking for anyone else but myself, I am not angry, in the same way I have no problem today about all the killing I did so long ago, I enjoyed it then, but I really do not miss it now.

Perhaps I would be different if I had fallen into the hands of the Jesuits, but I doubt it.

I do understand that my reactions are outside the norm, which leads me back to what I said earlier, a misogynist is made, not born, and from what I see a lot of women are engaged, wittingly or otherwise in doing just that, so for example the outcomes of the progeny of single mothers should come as no surprise to anyone.

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jaego June 11, 2012 at 21:29

About time. The Church seems to pride itself on its glacial slowness. I suppose such a policy has its strengths, but in the meantime people’s lives and faith are ruined. The solution would be more power at the local levels, but most of the Bishops are company men and don’w want to stand out so they don’t stand up. And many are outright heretics.

Rhonda Chervin, a conservative Jewish Convert wrote a great book about Feminist Catholicism. It was so extreme even decades ago. That was one of the problems: people could not believe how bad it really was. Whole orders ended. Or continued as something else with a few elderly nuns living as aliens in their own communities. Very sad.

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Wronged June 11, 2012 at 21:49

Matt @ 11:02. What I endured in the public schools of the 1960′s was not “a product of the times” discipline, it was man hating feminism. I was there, and I have absolutely no doubt about it.

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evilwhitemalempire June 11, 2012 at 22:22

As Ariel levy says in her book about Raunch culture feminism, Raunch culture feminism will be, (and is) the straw that broke the camels back of feminism.
*************

because it’s so ‘sex positive’ it undermines the pussy cartel better than any patriarchy

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evilwhitemalempire June 11, 2012 at 22:25

Already there exists the concept of WGTOW.
*****************

yes, it’s called lesbianism and it’s existed for quite some time

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evilwhitemalempire June 11, 2012 at 22:43

Visit web-sites where pastors, deacons, church-youth-group leaders, etc. have discussions about their flocks. You’ll see the same questions raised again and again: where are all the men? Why do young women outnumber young men so badly in the church? Why have young men turned their backs on “the Word?” Where are our Christian daughters going to find Christian husbands? Doing what childish people the world over always do – asking questions they don’t really want to hear the answer to.
****************

i suspect that the church has always been a feminine space

that the church was what nearly all women once used to help enforce the pussy cartel prior to the sexual revolution

back in the late 60′s-70′s the left, with it’s ‘free love’, birth control, and anti-war (no death for men on battlefield) culture was about the closest thing you could get to ‘pro-male’

if the feminists hadn’t taken over the left it might still be that way

which is why they probably did it

but when they did they left some of their ranks behind

and these became the socon female supremacists of today

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evilwhitemalempire June 11, 2012 at 23:01

Socon /feminism is much more deeply ingrained in Anglo-American culture than Marxist/feminism
**********
yes!

and most Socons actually consider themselves to be ‘anti-feminists’ (although they aren’t)
**********
they are actually first wave feminists even if unaware

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Anti Idiocy June 11, 2012 at 23:05

@AndrewV “Perhaps I would be different if I had fallen into the hands of the Jesuits, but I doubt it.”

Actually, I escaped from a hell-hole high school taught by nuns when I transferred to a Jesuit high school. It was like I died and went to heaven. I developed quite a bit of respect for the Jesuits, but perhaps I was lucky in the school that I chose.

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migu June 11, 2012 at 23:48

And once the American churches are healed, the orthodox schism is going to be tackled.

Imagine that, orthodox patriarchs on the Vatican council.

The Vatican is still the most powerful organization on the planet. Good thing they follow Jesus. One word from the Pope could have the entire world up in arms. Truth above power.

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migu June 11, 2012 at 23:51

Yeah, the church is feminine. Because all history prior to the enlightenment is irrelevant. Patriarch is a trick of language, and the Bible was secretly written by a feminist cartel in 1919. Sure.

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Opus June 12, 2012 at 00:28

So why don’t these dissatisfied Nuns go form their own Church?

The start up costs of religion seem to be small and the movement spreads like wild-fire.

Yet,

I cannot think of one major religion started by a woman, and, although I am no expert on religious matters, the same surely applies to any Christian Denomination or Sect.

Atheism seems to be all the rage, yet of the leading New Atheists can you name one woman?

Don’t tell me they were all being oppressed; with all the women’s studies departments at Universities there was surely never a better time to get started! Yet no female-centric religion has emerged. All one gets is Nuns doing their best to sabotage their own faith, and when they have succeeded in bringing the Chruch to its knees, they will blame the men and move to the next all male institution which men set up to get away from the women in the first place!

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Art Vandelay June 12, 2012 at 00:57

I cannot think of one major religion started by a woman, and, although I am no expert on religious matters, the same surely applies to any Christian Denomination or Sect.

Fiat Lux? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriella

Well it’s not a major religion, just hilariously insane (although, as an atheist I have to point out that most religion is a bit on the nutty side).

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Eric June 12, 2012 at 01:09

Opus,
That’s a good question. You would think too with all the books sold to females on ‘discovering the inner goddess’ and all this schmaltz being peddled about Gaia-worship that the time would be ripe for a female religious movement. And these nuns have experience, too.

But since women seem to have a difficult time launching any kind of enterprise that requires initiative or skill—maybe we should help them start one. Of course, the conditions would be that they would have to live in convents away from major cities, and the only males allowed to stay with them are homeless drug-addicted street vermin (whom a lot of them are living with already, so it shouldn’t be a problem).

Think about it, it’s not a bad plan.

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Opus June 12, 2012 at 01:36

@Eric

Your idea is a good one but it turns out that I was wrong as Art Vandelay has kindly linked to a Swiss woman who has started her own fairly crazy (even by religious standards) movement. Interestingly Switzerland seems to be home to some of those suicide cults – one can only hope and pray. ;)

How many of the book-writing Gurus; so consumed by women, are men: Dan Millman; Deepak Chopra, Richard Dawkins etc etc.

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evilwhitemalempire June 12, 2012 at 02:55

Yeah, the church is feminine. Because all history prior to the enlightenment is irrelevant.
************
you reckon that circumcision in early christianity (and still in judaism) was practiced for reasons of hygene? sure

Patriarch is a trick of language,
**************
it might be for feminists. they lie about everything

verrry odd that feminists said they hate the very things that women aspire to – family, kids

(equally odd that so many mra’s have a problem with admitting that men DO NOT, by nature, aspire to those same things)

and the Bible was secretly written by a feminist cartel in 1919. Sure.
*************
if you don’t automatically understand what is meant by pussy cartel- (as i’m sure most here do) then-

um…

most of you guys out there DO understand right? …. right!?

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Ron June 12, 2012 at 03:19

Feminists, manginas, and women in general (to a lesser degree) are utterly gutless. See how much bitching they do against Islam, which really is oppressive.

No, the only danger is white knights, but because these assholes are men, they can be reasoned with.

There is no reason not to stand up for ourselves and for what is right. Dont worry about what the women say, by nature they are selfish power hungry narcissists, they’ll happily throw the rest of the “sisterhood” to the wolves if an individual woman perceives it as being in her interest, if we stand and act like men, pass honest laws, fight for our own self interests both as individuals and as brothers, then it will be in the interests of women to align with us. Otherwise, we’re punks, and who backs up a punk?

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Art Vandelay June 12, 2012 at 04:18

Your idea is a good one but it turns out that I was wrong as Art Vandelay has kindly linked to a Swiss woman who has started her own fairly crazy (even by religious standards) movement

She is even selling her bath water…

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Opus June 12, 2012 at 04:27

@Art Vandelay

I see she has a Conviction for Tax Evasion. A fairly common occurence amongst new age spiritual leaders I seem to recall – but are their followers dismayed? No, not at all.

Sometimes I think that religion is just basically medicine: helping you in this life to live longer; and then seeing to your comfort in the next. That is not meant to sound cynical – though I suppose it must.

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migu June 12, 2012 at 04:36

Evil,

I understand. You are conflating. Ever actually read the Bible? All of it, cover to cover? Ever read any theology? Any?

My comment was tongue in cheek. :P . better ;) .

The church is not a feminist feminine female supreme organization. It’s a God is supreme organization.

But you know, it’s definitely the ecclesiastical courts enslaving men through divorce. Oh wait there are no Catholic divorce courts…. Hmmm.

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Matt June 12, 2012 at 08:15

I think what we must do as men, is to acknowledge the steps taken in the right direction and to support those who are fighting the good fight. So you dont like Catholics, or religion or whatever, are they going in the general direction you want, Then support them, don’t undermine their efforts .

Do you remember the old Charlie Brown movie where the boys and girls are at summer camp? The girls were depicted as a team and won all the events handily, while the boys were disorganized and worked against each other. the idea being that the girls know what they want. (i know , the herd mentality) Sometimes the Manosphere seems that way. We need to have a common set of goals and work for them.

Next, we need to go to the Town hall meetings, Q&A sessions, Local, State and Federal candidates for office, and force them to go on record regarding issues that men find important. We need to serve on juries rather than get out of them when the issues may be of importance to the MRM. We need to get real men back into teaching, media and corporate boards again. Stand up to the white knights when we can.

We will not see results overnight, this is a long march to reclaim what is ours to begin with. We are not doing this only for ourselves, but for our sons and grandsons. WE are MEN, we build things! When we advocate changing something we always will ask, What is next when the goal is achieved. because we think ahead. Remember the line from the Godfather, “women and children can be careless, but not MEN”.

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Art Vandelay June 12, 2012 at 08:55

I see she has a Conviction for Tax Evasion. A fairly common occurence amongst new age spiritual leaders I seem to recall – but are their followers dismayed? No, not at all.

Well other religious institutions don’t have to pay any taxes while holding significant wealth ;)

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Anonymous age 70 June 12, 2012 at 09:03

>>If feminists reject the patriarchy and “misogyny” of major religions, they have the option of simply rejecting them and starting their own faiths. If so many people feel as they do, they should have great success attracting faithful followers.

Love the sarcasm. I feel the same way about the gays trying to move into an existing Scout organization. They want access to a successful organization and all its volunteers and financial assets, and change it to their own desires. Too much work to start a Scouting organization, but then how many parents will send their boys to sleep in the woods with homosexuals?

I am reminded of Kiwanis. I once worked with a man who was Regional Vice Director, or some such title. He told me when the dearies came in, one of two things happened. Most local groups, the dearies demanded to be in charge, and those locals almost all collapsed, because the men resigned. Other groups, the first women in learned what the men were doing and why, and when a dearie would come busting in and demand changes to suit the dearies, the mature women would tell them to STFU, that the organization was good, and the men had been at it a long time, and no changes were needed. Either help with the existing programs or go home. Those locals continued to prosper.

>>And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye

Someone else responded very well to this. One difference is the church leaders did not encourage priests to bugger little boys. They simply failed to respond adequately to problems. As a poster said, local liberal priests; bishops and cardinals were the problem with this, not the higher ups.

>>Because the popess-followers would say it’s not equal until they get half the Vatican …

Half eventually being all the Vatican. A feminist half = 100%, maybe more.

>>(I) observed that the stories about abusive moms were generally worse among men under 35 years old

Nearly 20 years ago, I attended a non-denominational, patriarchal church. Men were in charge of everything. Not just sign off while the dearies did the work, but physically in charge, except nursery.

I attended a Sunday School class taught by one of the few good Christian men I have known. Half of each class was spent on a breakdown into small groups to discuss an assigned question. This was done in an attempt to get members to actually know each other.

One Mother’s Day, Wayne assigned the task of each person saying something about their mother.

Oh, man, it was horrid.

I was first up in my group, and simply passed without comment. We had middle-aged men and women start crying, unable to talk, when they did talk, it was incoherent.

Wayne was shocked and stunned. He had no idea there were that many disgusting mothers out there.

My guess is older people don’t talk about their mothers. I see no reason to think modern women are any worse than women ever were. Just saying.

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Huck Finn June 12, 2012 at 09:16

Clash of the titans: Vatican takes on reforming US nuns

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/12/12180072-clash-of-the-titans-vatican-takes-on-reforming-us-nuns?lite

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Huck Finn June 12, 2012 at 09:31

Lacking a patriarchal culture or society with codes of conduct, males lack the common female herd unity. The male trend to be independent and not domesticate is both a good and a bad thing. Overall, I think a balance is needed for most people to feel fulfilled with their lives and to maximize prosperity and progress for society. Too much authoritarian leadership is terrible to live under and too little makes society crazy aka the modern chaotic era. In a matriarchal dominate culture there would be little progress, productivity, creativity, and innovation. There might be a lot less starvation in the world under matriarchy yet most people would be living in unheated barracks with hundreds of others eating oatmeal and watching Big Sister on the TV talk about loyalty to the state.

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JeremiahMRA June 12, 2012 at 09:35

It’s a bit late for the Catholic clowns to stand up against feminism. They’re half a century too late.

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JeremiahMRA June 12, 2012 at 09:36

“There might be a lot less starvation in the world under matriarchy” nah, there’d be more.

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Matt June 12, 2012 at 10:01

“It’s a bit late for the Catholic clowns to stand up against feminism. They’re half a century too late.”

that is the exactly the attitude we don’t need. MRA needs all the friends it can get, better late then never.

For a faith that is over 2000 years old, I’d say that is moving along quite quickly.

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migu June 12, 2012 at 10:16

It’s a bit late for men stand up against female supremacy, they are half a century too late.

Guess we should surrender eh? I mean if the richest and most powerful organization on the planet can’t do it, what hope do we schlubs have?

Gravediggers begone!!!”!

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migu June 12, 2012 at 10:20

Some of you shitheads would cry foul if Obama abolished family courts tomorrow.

You types are gravediggers. Dig your grave, bury yourself.

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MKP June 12, 2012 at 10:38

“Some of you shitheads would cry foul if Obama abolished family courts tomorrow. “

And some of you gentlemen are just angry that your magic father in the sky is a laughingstock amongst thinking men of all stripes, and your churches are becoming smaller, weaker and less effective each year. And you want to rook in more young men as part of the swindle. No thanks.

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Matt June 12, 2012 at 13:39

MKP.. A lot better and far smarter men than you or I are, and were believers. ” The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God” GK Chesterson said a few things about people who think like you. Which is more magical thinking, the fact that we believe there is a creator? or everything happens by chance, because a supernova caused the local gas cloud to collapse about 5 billion years ago?

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MKP June 12, 2012 at 13:51

I don’t consider myself especially smart. If someone as dumb as me can see through the Church scam, what hope do you guys have of ensaring men who are genuinely intelligent?

The Catholic Church has nothing to offer men. A little “root around and kick out the feminists” work from the Pope is not going to change that. Even if the feminist/liberal foolishness within the church is curtailed, the church is still teaching men to act as chump-suckers towards women who will take them for everything they’re worth and laugh about it behind their backs.

Unless you think there is actually something different about Catholic women? Or different about marriages formed under the Catholic Church? You don’t seriously beleive that, do you?

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Templarii June 12, 2012 at 14:17

Thirst, i did not read the comments – it was to much.

But i want to write two things:

Most of the “abuse children” things have an serious cause: The liberal thinking and the stop of checking if someone is gay. Many of this problems with sexual abuse startet by hippies in the church-communities, there is an connection between abuse of young teens and gay priests. So we have the situation, that exact this people who causes the problem now arguing against the church because of the problem they causes. (Sorry, i am not an english native speaker)

In Germany the “green party” (just another kommunist party with green colour) are angry against the church because they abuses kids. BUT this party wants to legalize pedophilie! It is pure madness.

Second thing, the church is not shrinking – the church is growing. Very fast. But only in the western the church is shrinking. And the western society is duying. The feminism is “just” an symptom of Godless – no respect for males. (God is not male, but the emotional relationship beween him and jesus is like Father and Son. It is an emotional encoding für us humans)

And if you really wan’t to know whats up with the christianity, let’s go – i will answer the questions. It is not really “unlogically” or “complicated”. That’s just what the others say about this because they want to have the power.

Templarii – recognoscere.wordpress.com [email protected]

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Templarii June 12, 2012 at 14:21

@MKP June 12, 2012 at 13:51

Do you really wan’t to know what “beeing alpha” means? The church don’t need to offer something to you. If you want help, ask. They help. And the church is also full with people all over the world.

What christianity can do for us? Why do you think the males of the western are so weak? Because fo the “why should i do something” question. Because of “who ist the leader” question.

Learn something about being a male – in the last 3000 years. In the pre-technology eara:

http://rcg.org/pillar/1001pp-wiscw.html

http://www.biblebb.com/files/ryle/are_you_fighting.htm

http://www.morningstarministries.org/about/questions-and-answers/knights-malta-rick-joyner

http://christianmenchristianwarrior.wordpress.com/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1331109/posts

http://www.christianwarrior.co/2011/09/cossack-christian-warrior-culture.html

have fun..

Templarii

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AndrewV June 12, 2012 at 14:45

@Anti Idiocy June 11, 2012 at 23:05

I have heard many good things about the Jesuits, as far as I know everyone has good things to say about them.

I wanted to say that, because I may have given the wrong impression about my reasons for leaving the church.

My reason is that from age seven I realized that I did not believe in God.

So my leaving the church really had nothing to do with how I was treated by the nuns, and being educated by the Jesuits would have made no difference.

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AndrewV June 12, 2012 at 15:20

@MKP June 12, 2012 at 10:38

And some of you gentlemen are just angry that your magic father in the sky is a laughingstock amongst thinking men of all stripes, and your churches are becoming smaller, weaker and less effective each year. And you want to rook in more young men as part of the swindle. No thanks.

Speaking as an atheist, I would not like to see the christian churches disappear as I strongly believe that it would be disastrous for society as a whole.

What I would like to see though is reform within the various denominations, and in particular respect and tolerance from both sides. I think that for example the Catholics should drop some customs and adopt others, like drop the requirement for a priest to be celibate and allow their clergy to marry.

I would however, ban the faith healers from peddling their miracle waters and suchlike on television, they can continue to do that in the privacy of their own church, but not in public.

I would also go so far as to also allow prayer in school, and allow creationism and intelligent design as optional religious instruction, whereas evolution would be taught in science. Same for sex ed, birth control as part of the the latter and abstinence in the former.

You are probably shaking your head and asking why, and my answer is that having read the bible (King James) cover to cover several times I have found some good thing in there such as :

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets matthews 7:12

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your lap. For with the same measure that you measure it shall be measured to you again. luke 6:38

In other words: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and give full measure, pressed down and running over. Those are good principles to live by, and everyone I think, should at least try to live by them.

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Attila June 12, 2012 at 17:58

Save your soul from useless entanglements—societal trends are simply too strong for any single person to have an influence. Cultivate a small group of like-minded souls and try to build your garden away from the noisy, delirious crowd.

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Eric June 12, 2012 at 18:29

MKP:
‘Unless you think there’s something different about Catholic women &c…’

It depends. Filipina, Latina, Italian Catholic women—yes. Catholic culture hasn’t been corrupted by feminism enough in those cultures, so they tend to take marriage and motherhood seriously.

American Catholic women—avoid them like the plague. Even Dalrock, who’s a Christian Conservative, admits and has shown statistics that the divorce rate among American Christians is nearly 40%. That’s from a sub-culture that disapproves of divorce. Who knows how many of those marriages are completely dysfunctional but only held together out of sheer peer-pressure.

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Templarii June 12, 2012 at 23:15

@AndrewV

Nobody get forced to be an preast. The celibate is an sacrifice to god. The man is sacrificing his sexuality because there is something higher then sex. This is something very, very, very important because it shows that “sex is not everything”.
Especally in our times, where males think to be an male means to have sex. They can’t imagine something else.

And one information: The Roman Catholic Church is the biggest Religion in the world, fast growing. 1.2 Billion people. They survived Napoleon, Stalin, Hitler, the Muslims, Mussolini…. (Rome was occupied often..)

Templarii

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migu June 12, 2012 at 23:28

Ahhh yes, that old thinking man Einstein found it impossible to deny God. Then there was this other guy, fig Newton maybe? We all know Washington was an idiot.

Hey MKP go read Proverbs. Then go ahead and say modern atheism came up with all this philosophical wisdom.

There is nothing new under the sun. When you’re done with that go to Exodus 23. Then tell me how equality under law is a revolutionary idea formed in the 18th century.

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Art Vandelay June 13, 2012 at 05:22

Clash of the titans: Vatican takes on reforming US nuns

Release the Kraken!

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Zorro June 15, 2012 at 04:12

Little Mother Superior is in for a shock when she learns the Vatican does not operate on the basis of consensus.

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Jean Valjean June 15, 2012 at 13:23

Feminists don’t want to start their own religion just as they don’t want to start their own political parties. They are parasites. They want to latch on to an existing religion and corrupt it from within to serve their interests.

Feminists are doing what women have always done–getting men to do things for them that they are unwilling to do for themselves. By corrupting Catholicism they control the men from within this institution. But if they created their own religion they would have to recruit men into it. That would mean that only the weakest males would join them and as we know, women hate weak men.

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Anonymous Reader June 16, 2012 at 14:54

Eric
After the Episcopal Church imploded under feminism, John Paul II made an effort to reach out to conservative Anglicans, and also held some summits with Eastern Orthdox prelates to discuss the crisis feminism was causing. Benedict made a really controversial trip to Turkey a few years to meet Islamic leaders on the same topics.

Benedict went to Turkey to meet with the Orthodox Christians, probably as part of a long term project to bridge the nearly 1,000 year long divide between the two churches.

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Anonymous Reader June 16, 2012 at 15:01

Eric
It depends. Filipina, Latina, Italian Catholic women—yes. Catholic culture hasn’t been corrupted by feminism enough in those cultures, so they tend to take marriage and motherhood seriously.

What’s the birth rate in Italy, among those oh so Catholic women? It is well below replacement. Most oh-so Catholic women in Italy have one (1) child. Clearly their Natural Family Planning skills are better than they used to be…

As for Latina and Philippina women, I assume you have never been to the Philippines, or to much of Latin America. A friend of mine got back the other month from Costa Rica – cheating on husbands/wives is a national sport. A man I know was on a mining project in the Philippines – being married has no effect on women there, they are more than willing to screw around. Serious about marriage? By what definition?

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Dave July 10, 2012 at 14:53

NPR could start a new network to just broadcast the hate they have for Catholics.
Lately it seems to make-up a large portion of their material.

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