Paycheck Fairness Act: More State Coercion

by W.F. Price on June 5, 2012

In order to woo women, Obama has pushed a number of programs through various means, including Obamacare’s forced provision of birth control to female employees, new government offices specifically for females, and so on. Now, he has seized upon the “Paycheck Fairness Act,” which will force employers to justify any differences in pay according to gender by explaining them in terms of qualifications, education and other “bona fides.”

The legislation, sponsored by Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., would require employers to prove that differences in pay are based on qualifications, education and other “bona fides” not related to gender. It also would prohibit employers from retaliating against employees who ask about, discuss or disclose wages in response to a complaint or investigation. And it would subject employers who violate sex discrimination laws liable for either compensatory or punitive damages. Under the bill, the federal government would be exempt from punitive damages [No surprise there].

There are a lot of problems with the bill, with one of the most important ones being that so-called qualifications don’t always reflect how well someone does a job, or how valuable they are as an employee. Business is about making money, and employers generally don’t care about sex as long as the profits roll in. If women really were only making 77 cents for every dollar men made and still performing the same, nobody would hire men, because they wouldn’t want to take on the extra expense.

This oft-cited statistic is fiction; when personal choices are taken into account, women and men make about the same, as one would expect. However, if the Paycheck Fairness Act is passed, women will make more than men for equivalent work, because the government will introduce a significant penalty for not paying women the same whether they produce as much or not. Women will be even more privileged as employees than they already are with affirmative action and the EEOC. They will also have another powerful tool for suing companies, and as the history of harassment lawsuits demonstrates, they will use it regularly, often at the urging of aggressive trial lawyers.

Under the new bill, HR departments will be tasked with ensuring that men who perform well do not get raises. Companies will lose ambitious, talented male workers who give up in frustration as they realize that they will never rise above a certain pay level because there’s a woman with higher “qualifications” (e.g. a master’s degree) who doesn’t make more than him.

Eventually, that’s the way these government controls will ultimately fail. Men will vote with their feet. They will leave large companies to start their own businesses or work in a field women are not interested in. Women’s wages will not increase, because companies that are bound by bad law to lower efficiency and productivity will not make enough to give them raises. Tax revenue will then decline. In the end, everyone will lose.

Finally, the idea that men don’t want women to make money is ridiculous. Most married women work, and their husbands are happy when they make more money. Can you imagine a guy telling his wife’s boss not to give her a raise? The only problem men have with these “equal pay” laws is that they end up paying for it in the office, and it artificially lowers their wages. There’s already anecdotal evidence that software companies deliberately pay women more than men to prevent lawsuits, and because money does not come from a bottomless well this means other people are getting paid less.

Sometimes it’s better to leave the state out of certain matters, because it tends to create more problems than it solves. Sometimes, it simply creates a problem where none existed in the first place. This is the sum of the Paycheck Fairness Act: just another set of problems for America’s businesses and workers.

{ 128 comments… read them below or add one }

The First Joe June 5, 2012 at 13:31

Another law to make employing people harder! In the middle of a massive unemployment crisis! Is there no beginning to the POTUS’s genius!??

Future prediction: corporate jobs continue to hemmorage from the US. More men go self-employed cash-in-hand and/or expat.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself June 5, 2012 at 13:44

From the link cited in your article:

“Women, especially working mothers, tend to value ‘family friendly’ workplace policies more than men. Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.”

Don’t these bitches know that no male has everything and that it’s not all about them and their respective families? Personally, I do not give a fuck about the immediate family into which I was born and have no desire to father a kid, certainly not with the “women who prefer a family-friendly workplace” demographic quoted above. Just another bunch of entitled cunts.

Remember that most of the world’s women do not even have this bullshit “family-friendly” option while looking for firewood for cooking, tending to livestock and crops, or toiling in a sweatshop or selling something (including sex) for a pittance. Then again, we already knew that white feminists never really gave a shit about third world women except when they needed them.

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Anonnymous June 5, 2012 at 13:58

Ho-Obama is only doing what 43 of his predecessors have themselves done when in public office by selling the State and its Citizens futures in the old socialist bargain.

Funny, it always takes the wrong face doing the usual wrong things for bigots and bullies to start howling indignance.

Where was the so called freedom, justice, the pursuit of happiness and equality all along for people to now miss it ?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 18
Okrahead June 5, 2012 at 14:09

Which is “unfair”: 1) Womyn who make 77 % the amount of men or,
2) Womyn whom make 77% the amount of men while doing 50% as much work?

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keyster June 5, 2012 at 14:10

But yet this study is conveniently ignored by the Congressional Feminist Caucus…

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/reverse-gender-gap-study-young-childless-women-earn/story?id=11538401

Why are businesses sitting on record amounts of cash and not hiring?
Uncertianty.
The uncertianty of ObamaCare, regulations and crap like this.
Oh, and the collapse of the Euro…because in Keynesian Economics government needs to spend whatever it needs to spend. Austerity never works.

For those who say “Romney is no better, he’s just another GOP SoCon white knight who ignores Men’s Rights, blah, blah, blah…”
…Are you getting it yet?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 28 Thumb down 22
Prof. Woland June 5, 2012 at 14:10

Actually what we need is a law requiring women to start hiring men. As a man, I have no real hope or expectation that this will happen but what is fair is fair. But I think everybody knows that in spite of all the “you go girrrrl ” rhetoric women will let men build the house and after it is done she will pick out the curtains.

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AntZ June 5, 2012 at 14:10

OT: Urgent! All MRAs living in the NE are summoned to a fathers rights rally in NYC Friday, June 15! If you live on Long Island, we can care pool! Lets make big signs with angry demands for EQUALITY and show the bigoted feminists that fathers matter!

http://leonkozioljd.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/rally-for-fathers-rights/#comment-335

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AntZ June 5, 2012 at 14:11
Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 14:15

There’s already anecdotal evidence that software companies deliberately pay women more than men to prevent lawsuits….

It’s not just software companies and there’s nothing anecdotal about it. Women are paid on average 8% more than men now for the same work. This pay gap applies to young, childless urban women. Why? Well, at this employment level there are large numbers of young working men and women doing similar work whose pay can easily be subjected to statistical analysis by litigation-hungry lawyers.

If you’re an employer you’d better have your ducks in a row or the legal bottom-feeders will be on you like fleas on a dog. So you pay a litigation premium. What’s a “litigation premium,” you ask? Well, it’s the money you pay to your penis-less employees that protects you from litigation. It’s enough so there’s no chance that a pay discrimination lawsuit can succeed and it’s less than the amount the corporate bean counters calculate you’d pay in settlements if your company paid everyone the same.

So….litigation premium, sort of like a payoff to the mob. No, exactly like a payoff to the mob. Money extorted under threat. And your male employees getting the shaft? Too bad, they can’t sue.

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TFH June 5, 2012 at 14:16

Meh….. outsourcing will merely accelerate, as countries where outsourced jobs go to, do not impose such costs onto business…

China and India see this and cannot believe their good luck…

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TFH June 5, 2012 at 14:17

AntZ,

Excellent! There are too few people doing activism, and what you are doing is great!

I will always encourage such action….. loudly and often..

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 14:20

Prof. Woland
Actually what we need is a law requiring women to start hiring men.

Ackshully….what every man needs to do is figure out how to avoid ever having a female boss. Whatever it takes.

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Craig Himself June 5, 2012 at 14:23

Please. Pah-LEEEEEEZE.

As if companies need another reason to avoid hiring women.

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Paradoxotaur June 5, 2012 at 14:27

@Charles Martel: “it’s the money you pay to your penis-less employees that protects you from litigation. It’s enough so there’s no chance that a pay discrimination lawsuit can succeed”

There’s not enough money in the world to insure there’s no chance that a pay discrimination lawsuit wouldn’t succeed aginast a company. It’s strictly a numbers game- harder to prove, lower damages, fewer lawyers willing to work on contingency fee, etc.

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TFH June 5, 2012 at 14:30

Legendary VC firm Kleiner Perkins hit with ‘sexual harassment’ suit :

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_20705119/expert-kleiner-perkins-discrimination-lawsuit-dollars-than-sex-old-boys-club?source=pkg

Even the media article above says the suit is bogus.

Not to mention that the woman is not attractive enough for this to have been likely at all….given that the accused are billionaires.

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Nico June 5, 2012 at 14:31

Come on guys! Women need more money to ride the cock carrousel longer. Be chivalrous and help them pay for the ride.

If you were an alpha politician, you would surely understand the moral necessity of this transfer of resources in the name of equality.

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Opus June 5, 2012 at 14:33

As a matter of curiosity can anyone tell me what percentage of the unemployed are male – as I am guessing it is way over 50%?

…and why does the Act talk of ‘paycheck’ (how quaint your american spelling is) when surely no one is now paid by cheque, and receives some sort of standing-order payment direct into their bank account?

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"The One" June 5, 2012 at 14:35

Obama is a jerk.

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 14:40

Paradoxotaur
There’s not enough money in the world to insure there’s no chance that a pay discrimination lawsuit wouldn’t succeed aginast a company. It’s strictly a numbers game- harder to prove, lower damages, fewer lawyers willing to work on contingency fee, etc.

“Not enough money in the world.” Hmmm. Well, I’m not a lawyer but it’s my opinion that there is enough money in the world to prevent a pay discrimination lawsuit from succeeding. What’s more, it doesn’t take all the money in the world to achieve that goal. It just takes enough to demonstrate, with statistical rigor, that women are not paid less. i.e. are paid more.

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Soapwort McFuggletoes June 5, 2012 at 14:41

We’re very much on the same page here. Take from one to give to the preferred. That’s a constant theme which seeds future animosity that itself is cited to justify even more astounding intrusions into our private affairs. Welcome to the world of politically advantageous stratification.

>> Sometimes it’s better to leave the state out of certain matters, because it tends to create more problems than it solves.

Why pull your punches? It’s just hard to figure out where the state is helpful. The ‘state’ may be a necessary evil at times but that’s about as good as it gets. Shackle it! Distrust it! Never forget that it wants you to be its slave.

If the state isn’t consistently treated as the adversary and sworn enemy of freedom, then that camels nose has just found its favorite tent. Let us begin the much belated lamentation over the last portions of the tail having joined the rest of the troublesome beast.

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Uncle Elmer June 5, 2012 at 15:30

Hire a woman, hire a lawsuit.

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keyster June 5, 2012 at 15:33

Yep, those damn Republicans are just a bunch of no good misandrist louts…

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/politics/senate-pay-equity-bill/index.html

The motion, which needed 60 votes to succeed, got only 52, not one from a Republican.

Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Maryland, the chief sponsor of the pay equity bill, vowed to return to the bill until it passes.

“We will be back,” she said. “Though we lost the vote today, we are not giving up for equal pay, for equal rights.”

I believe you cupcake.

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Rebel June 5, 2012 at 15:37

The way around is for men to become self-employed.
Keep in mind that for an emplyee to earn one dollar he/she has to generate ten dollars of profit for the company.
Women are easier to handle or control than men: they will be forced to work like horses. This may free men even further.

It has been predicted that by 2050, women will get paid more than men: this probably mean the child support will be paid by women.

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Uncle Elmer June 5, 2012 at 15:43

Speaking of software, feminists have discovered “fuzzy logic” and claim it’s about the woman’s approach to computer science :

Stanford University Students Challenge Silicon Valley: More Femgineers, Less Nerds

http://www.forbes.com/sites/deniserestauri/2012/06/04/stanford-university-students-challenge-silicon-valley-more-femgineers-less-nerds

elmer has written some software in his day :

“Femgineers”, “She++”. Brilliant. Why didn’t I think of that?

The terms will likely take on unflattering connotations. Already disturbing visuals come to mind.

Aspiring female engineers are well advised to avoid identifying themselves with pro-feminist technical initiatives. Linking yourself to an agenda before you even walk through the door will get you marginalized.

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Anonymous Reader June 5, 2012 at 15:46

What Mikulski really meant to say: “We’ll be back … we are not giving up for extra pay and special privileges”.

As the debt-pression grinds on, and will no matter who wins in November, a lot of make-work jobs will slowly go away – or the companies will vanish.

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Uncle Elmer June 5, 2012 at 15:46

What Stripping Says About Octomom’s Earning Potential

http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/06/05/nadya-suleman-stripping-octomoms-earning-potential

elmer has been to a few strip-clubs in his day :

You honestly think a woman who has passed 14 babies through her chute is going to earn 6 months wages in 5 nights? You need to visit one of your local strip-clubs and reassess that prediction. Men don’t go to strip clubs to watch novelty acts.

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Uncle Elmer June 5, 2012 at 15:47

How Women Can Fight For Equal Pay

http://www.forbes.com/sites/work-in-progress/2012/06/05/how-women-can-fight-for-equal-pay

elmer provides the truth about gender pay imbalance :

Hire a woman, hire a lawsuit.

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Bizzman662 June 5, 2012 at 15:50

AmeriKa has turned into the biggest fucking crybaby society in the history of the world.

J.C. Penny with the print advertisement with to fucking homosexual love buddies and the headline…..”sometimes two dads are better than one”…..

Hey……FUCK YOU J.C. PENNY’s.

Man can’t buy a fucking children’s book at Barnes and Noble since he might forgo the book buying and touch a kid…..oh the shame!

Hey……FUCK YOU BARNES AND NOBLE

Dude headed to USC on a FULL RIDE FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIP…….Fucking BITCH ASS HO accuses him of rape….get’s paid 1.5 MILLION DOLLARS for being a LYING BITCH ASS HO…….Stupid bitch ass ho “friends him on Facebook……..Sorry about that rayyyype thing……Just kidding…..wanna be friends!

Government just says…….awwwwww, poor misguided bitch ass ho……carry on…….we won’t come after your dirty fucking lying ass since you have a vagina.

Hey…..FUCK YOU YOU DIRTY BITCH ASS FUCKING HO and the prosecutors who allow bitches to be dirty fucking bitch ass ho’s.

Lawyers practicing “Family Law” who advise the female just to say “I’m Afraid”…….Just a very ambiguous line but it works EVERY FUCKING TIME……..Lawyer says…….”Don’t worry honey……..it will give you the casa, cash and kids…….it makes the divorce easier”……..Meanwhile ex husband can’t get a job since he is a Domestic Abuser…….can’t keep up on the Chalimony since he is a Domestic Abuser……can’t rent an apartment since he is a Domestic Abuser…….Wears the scarlet letter of DV on his chest every single fucking day for the rest of his life……..

Oh yeah…..he NEVER touched his ex wife in his life…………She just said “I’m Ambiguously AFRAAAAID”………Fucking his life up forever while she gets ass fucked by Jimmy Bad Boy in the house he bought and Jimmy gets new shit all the time from that monthly CHALIMONY check.

Hey……FUCK YOU, Slimy Ass Attorneys who practice law this way and FUCK YOU VAWA supporters for allowing this shit to happen ALL THE FUCKING TIME and FUCK YOU you bitter ex bitches who think it’s funny to use this weapon in a divorce proceeding.

What fucking children these hairy legged feminist bitches are.

What a pussy ass society we live in today.

20 years ago……you could send your kids outside to play until dusk….. you could be in high school and try for second base without the “chance” of going to prison and having a fat penis up your ass………Families stayed TOGETHER…….Homosexual television programming was an ABOMINATION……..everyone said the pledge of allegiance before school……..you actually had to put your hands ON a woman to get charged with “domestic battery”………..Paycheck Fairness did not really matter since the woman could stay at home before she was FORCED to work due to all these “entitlement’ programs that sent our government into a tax feeding frenzy…..creating inflation and MAKING both the man and woman work just to pay the bills. Debtors prisons were still ILLEGAL….There were JOBS to be had if you wanted one……..and on and on and fucking on.

So with all of the “Feminist” Entitlement programs and “fair laws” they have passed did nothing to improve our country…………rather is created the diarrhea that shit out of the ass of “big daddy government” and put our society into the bottom of the shitter.

Way to go ladies!

You have done a great fucking job since you took over.

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Highwasp June 5, 2012 at 15:52

["This is the sum of the Paycheck Fairness Act: just another set of problems for America’s businesses and workers."]

yep – another problem created by government and for government…, the fastest growing ‘business’ in Amerika specializes in the creation and the solution of ‘Problems’. Or more commonly known as extortion.

No wonder women, manginas, dykes and white knights comprise an overwhelming majority of the appointees, officers and support staff for the ‘second oldest profession’ – extortion – they are ‘naturals’ at it.

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Elusive Wapiti June 5, 2012 at 15:55

Meh. I’m waiting with bated breath for the truth to come out that women are paid more for less work.

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Epoche* June 5, 2012 at 16:02

I will concede to a paycheck fairness act when there is a taxation fairness act whereby the senate investigates gender imbalances in taxation policy.

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"The One" June 5, 2012 at 16:24

I want Democrat vaginas out of my wallet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3TEsifZ-Bk

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 16:33

Price:
This is more of the ‘guilty until proven innocent’ attitude our laws presume against men. The whole premise underlying the bill is that evil male employers are purposely cheating women out of pay and have to prove themselves above suspicion in our new feminist police state.

I don’t know why it never dawns on these retards—though it’s probably mostly due to their lack of experience in the private sector— that there is nothing a businessman actually has to gain by exploiting women as they describe. How many businessmen do you know who have so much free time and such ample resources that they can sit around plotting to hire women just for the purpose of exploiting them? Or, why wouldn’t anyone pay a man extra to do an efficient job, instead of hiring a female whose lower wages would be offset by an inefficient job?

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 16:35

Uncle Elmer:
Octomom brings up another good point about ‘earning potential’ LOL. What employer in his right mind is going to want to shell out maternity-leave a dozen times?

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Attila June 5, 2012 at 16:35

Statistics can be twisted to mean anything …. every woman I work with earns more than I do.

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 16:43

Keyster:
I’m not convinced Romney will be much of an improvement; considering Obamacare was largely based a plan Romney devised for Massachusettes. Also Mikulski’s bill is very little different than Clarence Thomas’ infamous 1991 EEOC directive, signed into law by Bush Sr., that made these kinds of discriminatory policies nationally sanctioned.

I agree with you about grass-roots Conservatives, but again, your leadership is your greatest liability.

If Romney has any brains at all, which is seriously doubtful, he’ll nominate Ron Paul as his VP at the Convention. But I think instead, he’ll do what McCain did in 2008, nominate some nitwit like Palin and have Ron Paul’s supporters beaten up by the police.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 5
Eric June 5, 2012 at 16:53

Rmaxd;
Since you’ve recently moved to the UK, are in the British Union of Fascists now? Your whole comment sounds like of one their pamphlets.

But we shouldn’t be surprised, considering the only female you’ve ever spoken positively of was the one who was arrested for a racist rampage over there recently.

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 17:08

It appears that the troll Rmaxd’s comment calling for a race war has been mercifully deleted from this thread. Thank you, Welmer.

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Richard June 5, 2012 at 17:11

I prefer “Hire a pantsuit; hire a lawsuit.”

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 17:20

Uncle Elmer
Femgineers…….

The ladies have written a few lines of code and are now ready to stick it to the man.

From your linked article:

Femgineers are different because we value human indecision as much as deterministic Turing machines. We love people as much as we love computing. We want to marry life and love and laughter with the most amazing technologies of our time, and that’s what makes us different. Maybe a femgineer on Apple’s Siri team would have caught the fact that the first iteration of the personal assistant could jokingly suggest where to dump a dead body, but not where a woman could get birth control. Think of what a few more femgineers could do.

OK. How about the Mars Climate Orbiter, the Mars Polar Lander and Deep Space-2. After the two probes of Deep Space-2, a project led by these three femgineers, disappeared without a trace, NASA found there were so many inadequacies in their construction it was a waste of time to even launch them.

After the Apollo moon landings NASA turned its attention to Mars. Now, after forty years of femgineering and with the direction of the Femgineer In Chief, NASA’s mission is to “help Muslim nations feel good about their historic contribution to science … and math and engineering.” Oh and don’t worry about that not being able to get into Earth orbit any more thing.

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Robert K June 5, 2012 at 17:33

If I had to work with a woman who got paid as much as I did, I’d make sure I only workeed as hard as she did.

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 17:42

Eric
But we shouldn’t be surprised, considering the only female you’ve ever spoken positively of was the one who was arrested for a racist rampage over there recently.

“Racist rampage” Hardly. Emma West was exercising what would be called her First Amendment rights here in the USA.

Fifty years ago the UK was virtually 100% white. Now, thanks to the efforts of the Labour party and to Britain’s history as a colonial power, the UK is now staggering under a tidal wave of immigration. This is deeply frustrating to the native-born whose parents and grandparents bled and died to defeat Hitler. The betrayal is intensified by the preferences given to the newcomers in employment, housing and welfare.

Emma West said what many Brits are thinking. Very few have yet found the courage to speak up for their own culture.

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Migu June 5, 2012 at 17:45

Hey guys, You don’t have to hire any women so long as your business is under 16 employees.

Tons of small business. Hip Hip horray, bring back competition screw corporate monopolies.

Ha, not going to happen nice thought though.

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 18:02

Martel:
Welmer apparently deleted Rmaxd’s post which my comment was referencing, so it had another context that might not be readily apparent.

I think that what Emma West did would probably be defended legally as exercising free speech here, but there are still laws against disturbing the public peace and disorderly conduct. Those should start being enforced here. On the other hand, you’re right that Britain’s speech codes are over-strict. Repression of speech is what is leading to things like Emma West’s outbursts and the riots last summer.

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Stavi June 5, 2012 at 18:03

Eric, this is hardly the first time you’ve referred to the Emma West incident as if it were a violent assault that left many dead bodies in its wake, rather than hurt feelings. Today you called it a “rampage”, not a few days ago you claimed it was an “assault”. Why, I would genuinely like to know, do you continually equivocate harsh language with physical violence?

Furthermore, I and many others here and elsewhere see little wrong with what she said. She repeatedly claimed that the non English people were, in fact, not English and never would be. Nationality is similar to gender, in as much as you are and forever will be what you’re born as, regardless of how much you desire the truth could be otherwise.

This incident in particular, and many other similar incidents I’m sure, seem to hold great personal importance for you. Why is that? I also ask, again, why you believe that harsh words constitute an “assault” or “rampage”?

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Ted June 5, 2012 at 18:15

“the UK is now staggering under a tidal wave of immigration. This is deeply frustrating to the native-born”

The native-born could have headed off the wave of immigration if only they had born more natives.

Consequences.

Emma West no doubt needed plumbers and electricians from time to time; and no doubt she wanted to pay as little as possible for their services.

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 18:18

Eric
Welmer apparently deleted Rmaxd’s post which my comment was referencing, so it had another context that might not be readily apparent.

OK. Glad we’re on the same page.

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 18:27

Ted
The native-born could have headed off the wave of immigration if only they had born more natives.

That’s a straw man. The Japanese have no problem keeping their borders closed even with a falling population.

Like other Anglo nations, the root cause of the UK’s problem is that Northern European whites are suicidally altruistic. It’s a genetic problem. Something to do with genetic selection for high cooperation in adverse climates.

You’ll miss us when we’re gone.

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Ted June 5, 2012 at 18:31

“It’s a genetic problem. ”

Are you being serious?

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tiredofitall June 5, 2012 at 18:40

All I have to say on the subject:

http://tinyurl.com/cs4r43x

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 18:51

Ted
Are you being serious?

Yes, of course. Citizenship, or even residency, in a first world country is worth a great deal of money. All that infrastructure took a ton of investment over a long period of time. It’s only the wimminz that believe roads and bridges and stuff just grow out of the ground.

So, you have to be a bit defective, genetically, to just give that all away. For free. And then hand over living expense on top. You know, forget about genetically defective, we Northern European whites are basically nuts.

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Brian June 5, 2012 at 18:53

The Paycheck Fairness Act is yet another endeavor by people to vote themselves money. The American republic will end sure enough just as Benjamin Franklin said.

The general populace’s fundamental values have been severely subverted as Yuri Bezmenov described (youtube his 1983 lecture and later interview. Fascinating material). I don’t think we’ve reached a point of no return, but I think it’s dangerously close.

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Ted June 5, 2012 at 18:58

@Charles Martel

Yes, you’ve convinced me.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Paradoxotaur June 5, 2012 at 19:13

@AR: “a lot of make-work jobs will slowly go away – or the companies will vanish.”

Of course these jobs will vanish. I predict that the cost of a back alley BJ will approach the cost of a premium draft beer, just like it was ~150 years ago.

@Bizzman662: “You have done a great fucking job since you took over.”

Don’t forget the scented candles.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
cooterbee June 5, 2012 at 19:35

A good law. It punishes those males disgraceful enough to have jobs and feed the system. F’em. If they help the economy survive by accepting employment then they deserve to get screwed — white knighting asses.

With any luck male wages minus taxes will fall below subsistence. No male will be able to hold employment and avoid starvation at the same time. Then watch the ranks of the MGTOW swell.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2
TiredGuy June 5, 2012 at 19:50

@ Tired of it all

This is definitely the best way to deal with any claims of discrimination. When it comes to harvest time on my farm, I go into town and place up a few adverts for fruit pickers.

I pay by the bag collected, and its always funny when I get some female backpackers who want a bit more holiday money. The boys and men who sign up for work come in on the weekend and swiftly but gently pull all the fruit down, while female backpackers always spend their time gossiping. I really don’t care because I don’t pay by the hour.

At the end of the day I’m usually handing out about 200 Tala to the boys, 300 Tala to the men, 150 Tala to the local women (who work as hard as they can, but can’t keep up) and about 10 or 20 Tala to the female backpackers. Since I pay cash in hand, the police usually let me borrow a constable for an hour or so to keep watch while I’m giving out the pay envelopes, so many of the female backpackers end up seething with rage. They can’t do anything about it since I pay everyone fairly according to their work, regardless of gender.

Going contracting and starting up your own business may just be the best method of beating back the feminists and other anti-economy fools.

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Andrew S. June 5, 2012 at 20:04

I would suggest women start their own businesses, hire exclusively women, and pay those women lots and lots of money. Or they can just continue to glom onto male run and started businesses, and when they are unhappy sue those men or get laws passed about “unfairness.”

I’m pretty sure I know which route they will continue to take.

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 20:22

Stavi:
I’ve mentioned the incident three times and two of those were in answer to a racist who invoked it first. I think the main problem here is that I may overuse American colloquial language, wherein violent and belligerent speech is sometimes referred to as a ‘rampage’.

‘Nationality is similar to gender…&c.’

True, but to me, Emma West’s conduct illustrated more the vulgarity and inherent racism typical of Anglo-American females. For a good analysis of that aspect of the incident, here’s an interesting article:

http://www.kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/2012/04/exposing-reality-social-media-and-new.html

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Rebel June 5, 2012 at 20:22

“suicidally altruistic”

Honestly, I have a problem swallowing that one!

This is not typical for a race of humans that basically conquered the world.

Would you say the same thing about the Romans?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
Highwasp June 5, 2012 at 20:35

me too

“Suicidally Altruistic” – and – “you’ll miss us when we’re gone.”

Good One!

Genetically chosen for cooperation…

“genetic selection for high cooperation in adverse climates”. [brrrr cold]

I like it – cooperation is exactly what’s needed – for men to cooperate with men instead of competing with each other for pussy and ‘status’ – is very red pill. Cooperation is Red Pill. You’ll miss it when it’s gone.

BTW; Charles – what nationality or race are you?

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 20:49

Highwasp
BTW; Charles – what nationality or race are you?

Naturalized American, but I come from a long line of English yeomen. My great…….grandfather was a longbowman at Agincourt.

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W.F. Price June 5, 2012 at 20:56

Naturalized American, but I come from a long line of English yeomen. My great…….grandfather was a longbowman at Agincourt.

-CM

Hah! So was mine! But he was Welsh…

Eric June 5, 2012 at 21:04

Martel & Price:
LOL—probably here too, except that my ancestors probably fought on the other side. One of my great-grandmothers was from Burgundy.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 21:28

Rebel
This is not typical for a race of humans that basically conquered the world.

The thing is, even for those of us who’ve swallowed the red pill, our world view is still based on a highly distorted view of history that leaves us with many false ideas.

Take slavery for example. The word slave is a corruption of slav. Slav came to mean slave because in medieval Europe so many white slavs were taken as slaves to be sold to Arabs and muslims in the middle east. In fact Islamic slaving and enslavement of Europeans was a huge problem from the early 17th through the early 19th centuries. For much of this time the coasts of Italy and Spain were largely depopulated and the slavers raided as far north as England and Ireland. The life expectancy of these European slaves, who received brutal treatment, averaged about four years. This Islamic slaving was finally brought to an end, at least in part, by the first action of what became the Marine Corps against the Barbary Pirates, now immortalized in the Marine Corps hymn.

Contrast this with the trans-Atlantic slave trade, where the slaves were not taken by European raiding parties but were delivered to the coasts by their African captors. In fact, the Bantu had no monetary system and therefore measured their wealth by the number of slaves they owned. The African slaves delivered to the coasts may have been captured deep in the African interior and traded several times before being delivered to a slaving fort in Ghana, for example.

I could go on, but you get my point. We live in a trans-national culture that demonizes certain races, nationalities and the male sex. In this toxic culture benefactors are transmuted into exploiters. No good deed goes unpunished.

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Highwasp June 5, 2012 at 21:32

cooterbee

Fems:F’em

“With any luck male wages minus taxes will fall below subsistence. No male will be able to hold employment and avoid starvation at the same time. Then watch the ranks of the MGTOW swell.”

Then what?

…Escalation of male suppression, Revolution, War, Revelation or just lots of angry men? Like the images I see of Syria [lots of angry men]. Or what – the Greatest Great Depression II – or maybe even The Apocalypse 2012 mayan style – ok now I’m babbling -

I am looking forward to watching the F’kn Fems get dismantled and discarded in the coming decade. Just like what has happened to men over the past 60 – 70 years – made redundant and then replaced – it seems to me women are being set up like we have been – like a tech bubble – or a ‘Housing bubble’ – a ‘Woman bubble’ and special interests of all sorts are being pandered to, way too much, too fast, too easy, can’t last… I wonder what it’s going to look like when the Women’s Bubble bursts. Could it coincide with the ‘Gov’t Debt Bubble’ bursting? Most likely, seeings how the Gov’t is funding the women’s ‘F’em Bubble’…

And don’tcha know, when that bubble bursts, the women will avoid responsibility by blaming it on a Corrupt Gov’t!

I predict in the future, at the same time women are being trashed, men will become more and more cooperative with one another. Which comes first, or which is causal to the other – why and how – probably doesn’t matter so much as playing to our strengths:

Men cooperating with one another accomplished more than those who compete with one another.

.02¢

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Charles Martel June 5, 2012 at 21:50

W.F. Price
Hah! So was mine! But he was Welsh…

Bill, don’t tell anybody but I made up that longbowman at Agincourt thing. Just a little joke. But I’m sure yours was though……

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Highwasp June 5, 2012 at 22:00

Charles –

Great – just great.

“Slav came to mean slave because in medieval Europe so many white slavs were taken as slaves to be sold to Arabs and muslims in the middle east.”

Anyone else here of Slav Lineage – ? – you in the back – – yes…, you – it’s OK, speak up.

As much as I’d like to be, like you and Price, from a long line of bowmen I have a sinking suspicion I am of the Slav lineage. A phenomenon which explains my altruistically suicidal tendencies :-)

however, I can trace my lineage back to [1590's Sweden]. I wonder if there were any bowmen there abouts to whom I might be related…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
keyster June 5, 2012 at 22:10

Also Mikulski’s bill is very little different than Clarence Thomas’ infamous 1991 EEOC directive, signed into law by Bush Sr., that made these kinds of discriminatory policies nationally sanctioned.

Clarence Thomas wasn’t even in the EEOC in 1991. He was nominated from a district appeals court to the Supreme Court. You know Anita Hill and the “high tech lynching”.

If you look hard enough you’ll always find some obscure instance where a Conservative did something at some point in our history, that you can point to and say “SEE, JUST AS BAD!”. I try to see things in present day terms, because I can’t do anything to change decades old history.

Whatever Clarence Thomas inititiated as chairman of the EEOC has very little to do with the Pay Check Fairness Act. This is the same Clarence Thomas that voted against the Women of Wal Mart class action status for pay discrimination a couple of years ago.

Men (and employers) had a victory today because Republicans stopped “the party of women” from instituting equal pay legislation. Can’t you be happy for that much?

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evilwhitemalempire June 5, 2012 at 22:13

If women really were only making 77 cents for every dollar men made and still performing the same, nobody would hire men, because they wouldn’t want to take on the extra expense.
******************
come now price, it’s common knowledge that no businessman let’s greed get in the way of oppressing females

but seriously, your making a point we don’t hear made NEARLY enough in the manosphere

i’m looking at you mr. elam, mr. j.t.o, mr. blog talk radio

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
reficul June 5, 2012 at 22:15

“Socialism is the system under which people bravely combat problems not present under any other system!”
Stefan Kisielewski

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evilwhitemalempire June 5, 2012 at 22:27

keyster
For those who say “Romney is no better, he’s just another GOP SoCon white knight who ignores Men’s Rights, blah, blah, blah…”
…Are you getting it yet?
************

to all left leaning and fence sitters

if the progressive stack is not stopped (somehow) they WILL eventually succeed in either turning this country into a third world shit hole OR a communist hellhole

in either case as men you lose

nothing would prompt a return to traditionalism faster that a broken, bankrupt country. and i know just how much you leftist anti-fems adore traditionalism

and if you don’t think communist goons can’t take away your x-box 360 and your fleshlight and send you off to a camp to pay for wimminz priviledge your sadly mistaken

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
W.F. Price June 5, 2012 at 22:29

Bill, don’t tell anybody but I made up that longbowman at Agincourt thing. Just a little joke. But I’m sure yours was though……

-Charles Martel

Well, Charles, I have no doubt that when the strong young yeomen of England and Wales returned from France with all that loot they were very prolific, so I’d be kind of surprised if anyone from that region wasn’t related to one of them somehow.

According to the popular family genealogy, one ancestor named Henry Tudor Price was present at Agincourt. I’ll choose to believe it. :)

Eric June 5, 2012 at 22:31

Keyster:
I am very happy that Mikulski’s plot was defeated! I hope it’s the shapes of things to come. But I am really concerned about the leadership of the Conservative movement.

I looked up Clarence Thomas, you’re right, he served in EEOC until 1990, but he helped draft the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which was what I was thinking of. That act set a lot of the precedents upon which Mikulski’s bill was based. And considering Thomas did everything in his power to uphold quotas and preferences, and is now sitting on the Supreme Court—how might he have ruled if the bill became law?

On the one hand, I’m happy that the GOP took down Mikulski’s bill; but like she said: ‘we’ll be back.’ And who knows if the GOP can do it a second time?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Eric June 5, 2012 at 22:39

EvilWhiteMaleEmpire:

I think you’re right; pragmatically we really have nothing to lose by backing Romney since we’re pretty much toast either way. I do hope that he picks Ron Paul at the convention for VP—that could bring a lot of Ron Paul supporters into the system and have a chance to topple the Old Guard in the party.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
evilwhitemalempire June 5, 2012 at 22:40

So….litigation premium, sort of like a payoff to the mob. No, exactly like a payoff to the mob. Money extorted under threat. And your male employees getting the shaft? Too bad, they can’t sue.
****************

perhaps that’s a way to go here

at the very least the lawsuits might provide exposure to real pay discrimination

and what can the fems do about it?

it’s an achilees heel that egalitarianism is the foundation of their female supremacist movement

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
walking in hell June 5, 2012 at 22:51

“Under the new bill, HR departments will be tasked with ensuring that men who perform well do not get raises. ”

The man’s motivation to work and be upwardly mobile has once again been hammered down.

Has anyone done any research as to which countries are the worst for men?

When you do a google search for “worst countries for men” this comes up at the top of the list:

1) http://www.livehonestly.com/10-bestworst-countries-to-be-a-woman.html
2) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/global-gender-gap-report_n_1070466.html
3) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/global-gender-gap-report_n_1070466.html

1) and 2) are articles about worst countries for women and 3) is an article dividing men based on their “lover” skills.

Surprise, surprise.

Someone needs to create an article on the worst countries to be a man in terms of divorce, child custody, incarceration, quality of women, job prospects, quality of healthcare, male homelessness, etc.

I think it is pretty obvious which country would come out at the bottom of the list, at least in the “developed” world.

Truly, for most men, America is a dump, and getting worse every day. American men have already been margianalized.

Now we are in the systematic elimination phase.

Has anyone seen this?
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2012/02/28/do-you-think-it-is-fair-to-take-men-to-the-poor-house-for-child-support-debt/

Soon all benefits will be seized for back child support on disabled, elderly, and retired men. They will starve to death.

Us men are really behind as to what is really going on.

MGTOW is only a survival strategy. There is no quality of life in MGTOW as a lifestyle for men.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2
evilwhitemalempire June 5, 2012 at 22:53

from keyster’s link

“This is just politics. This should be called the trial lawyers bonanza bill,” complained Sen. Mike Enzi of Wyoming, the top Republican on the Senate labor committee. “It has nothing to do with the women. They will get very little out of it. What it allows is huge class-action suits with very little defense by any employer.”
***************

this is how it’s done gang

you attack others who benefit from putting females ahead

you see, they are fighting for men disguised as chivalry

while the other side fights for female supremacy disguised as ekwaliteee

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
DirkJohanson June 5, 2012 at 22:53

Do any of these studies comparing pay ever take into account that due to greater longevity, women earn several years more pension pay, or that they reap more in health benefits since they use them more in achieving that greater longevity?

Didn’t think so.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
evilwhitemalempire June 6, 2012 at 00:21

eric

pragmatically we really have nothing to lose by backing Romney since we’re pretty much toast either way.
***********

and don’t forget that, at the very least, there is the satisfaction of depriving a feminist of an obama vote via canceling it out with your own

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walking in hell June 6, 2012 at 00:33

@keyster
“Men (and employers) had a victory today because Republicans stopped “the party of women” from instituting equal pay legislation. Can’t you be happy for that much?”

Republicans stopped the bill because it was “business unfriendly.” Men had a “victory” by accident. Besides Keyster, men are already so down, this is hardly a victory; it is more like a reprieve.

Neither the Republicans, nor the Democrats represent the interest of men. In fact Republicans push the hardest for stay at home moms to be able to divorce their husbands on a dime and collect huge amounts of alimony and child support. Republicans push the hardest for men to get into a legal marriage contract that makes them slaves.

I think it is nice that you have hope in Republicans but I think it is a false hope.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
David G June 6, 2012 at 00:41

“The legislation, sponsored by Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., would require employers to prove that differences in pay are based on qualifications, education and other “bona fides” not related to gender.”

Notice how the most important criteria *experience* was left off the list.

Men invariably have greater experience as they tend to take far less holidays, sick days and paternal leave. That alone accounts for the bulk of the gender pay gap.

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nigeles175d June 6, 2012 at 00:48

Whenever I see two people of different sexes performing a hard, tough, dirty, heavy or dangerous job, the man does the work, whilst the woman watches, and nags, and complains about how he is doing it incorrectly. Under this proposal am I to assume that companies would be required to pay both the same wages? Or am I to assume that this proposal would require us to retrench the “useless man” and employ another woman? And here sits silly old me, pondering the difficulties feminists have in understanding the balance between producing widgets, and printing more money.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
walking in hell June 6, 2012 at 01:22

@price

“just another set of problems for America’s businesses and workers.”

but mostly, American men.

Though I am a very margianlized man and don’t have much to offer, and don’t believe much change in America is possible to improve the conditions of men, I think the following real-time articles are more effective in raising awareness than say, articles on abstract political theory, in a number of ways.

Paycheck Fairness Act: More State Coercion

What Can Make a Grown Man Cry?

Senile Doctor Wants to Award $50,000 to Women Who Have Illegitimate Children

How did Feminism Grow so Powerful?

These articles are more effective because they are happening in real time. They show the reality in which American men must live in: the reality that as a man in America, your country and it’s women hate you so much, that they are constantly trying to concoct legislation to punish you, or incarcerate you. And you, as a goodhearted man, hang in their, because you don’t know any better, or you want to make things better.

A young man, armed with this knowledge is able to navigate the minefield that is his country, and maybe one day may even be able to exit the minefield.

Thanks for the website. It a place where men like me can feel less isolated.

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Ted June 6, 2012 at 01:23

“genetic selection for high cooperation in adverse climates”.

Leading to that evolutionary pinnacle… Emma West. Convergent evolution, though. Those women in Eric’s video all looked and sounded remarkably the same.

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Opus June 6, 2012 at 03:30

@Eric

Rookh Kshatriya is (I believe) of Indian origin but resident in England. It (in my view) ill behoves him as an immigrant to my country (and I am sure that my great… grand father too was also a stout yeoman at Agincourt – and if he wasn’t, he should have been, ‘on St Crispin’s Day’) to complain about Emma West. Behind his otherwise perceptive Anglo-Bitch theory lurks in my view anti-white racism. Emma West may have been rude and she may have been uncharitable, but she merely voiced her views. She was (with a small child on her lap) clearly of no threat to anyone, let alone the group of people that included large males, in the tram. John Stuart Mill considered the limits of free speech, imagining a situation where a gang of irate men gathered outside the house of a corn-grower urging each other on in ever greater dislike of corn-growers. Mill considered this as going beyond the acceptable limit of free speech because of the likelihoood of physical assault on the corn-grower, who of course would be overpowered by greater force. Mill might therefore be surprised to learn that in modern Britain the corn-grower who attempts to defend himself – verbally – is the one who is arrested, imprisoned (initially without trial) and separated from (her) child; rather than the inciting mob. The latest Tram girl is presently serving three months in prison for her drunken views. It is not that men have different views but rather that men recognise that aggression leads to violence and men instinctively know that it is better to remain silent than to say what they might think – for it is better to live to fight another day. Women, however, who have no impulse controls, and who are without any sense of responsibility but nevertheless now empowered, [well done Feminazis] thus find themselves in trouble with the law, and for once are – doubtless to their surprise – unable to play their pussy-pass, as, in England, Race trumps Sex. In England, racism (a concept unknown to the OED until 1970) having been invented by an anti-British Soviet Marxist in the 1930s) is regarded as ‘original sin’ which all white people – and seemingly only white people – are born with, and they can only redeem themselves by way of considerable abasing penance, preferrably in public.

I am entirely with Charles Martel on this (though I suspect that his great.. grandfather was actually one of those ‘gentlemen in England now abed’ rather than in the thick of things ;) .

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5
UK Fred June 6, 2012 at 03:30

@WF Price, @Charles Martel
I couldn’t really care less whether yu are descended from the longbowmen of Agincourt/ What matters is whether you can metaphorically use the sign they gave when they escaped French captors with their fingers intact to fire more arrows to the feminazis.

Seriously, you guys in the States have my sympathy because Obama seems to be doing the same damage to your country that Gordon B-Ruin did to Britain. You might remember him, he was the guy who was half right when he said he had abolished boom and bust, but unfortunately it was not the bust part.

Finally, I think we all need to re-read this, from Dalrock:
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/10/02/special-needs-employees/

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Ted June 6, 2012 at 03:55

“Behind his otherwise perceptive Anglo-Bitch theory lurks in my view anti-white racism.”

Agree.

Emma West, though, reminds me of some women – only a few – from pre-70′s England. They could be just as abusive, but back then, on subjects other than race.

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Charles Martel June 6, 2012 at 04:32

@Opus

Brilliant analysis hidden inside a daunting text wall.

Emma West may have been rude and she may have been uncharitable, but she merely voiced her views. She was (with a small child on her lap) clearly of no threat to anyone, let alone the group of people that included large males, in the tram……The latest Tram girl is presently serving three months in prison for her drunken views. It is not that men have different views but rather that men recognise that aggression leads to violence and men instinctively know that it is better to remain silent than to say what they might think – for it is better to live to fight another day. Women, however, who have no impulse controls, and who are without any sense of responsibility but nevertheless now empowered, [well done Feminazis] thus find themselves in trouble with the law, and for once are – doubtless to their surprise – unable to play their pussy-pass, as, in England, Race trumps Sex.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
zimmy June 6, 2012 at 04:45

Annually men are 93-94% of all job related deaths so I’m certain that Sen. Mikulski will want to pass a ‘death equality’ bill insuring that in the future women will be 50% of all deaths related to employment………right?

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Art Vandelay June 6, 2012 at 04:47

That’s a double whammy for corporations. On average, the more women you hire the higher your insurance premiums will be because the more women enrolled in the plan the more they have to pay out for the women-only goodies. As far as I know, women’s healthcare is already more expensive on average. And then you get the other side of your face slapped with having to make sure women are paid more to avoid litigation. Then of course your insurance premiums go up because the risk of litigation goes up – and insurance companies usually make you settle out of court if it’s their determination that you could possibly lose.

So who does this help? The large, oligopoly and monopoly companies. They can just keep on going the way they are going until they get hit with a class action suit, then settle for pennies on the dollar or drag it through the courts for ages.

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FFP June 6, 2012 at 05:30

For someone from a real European (read: white) country, it is shocking to read the reactions to Emma West’s tirade. It is scary to see what has happened to Western Europe. She may have been rude, but she was painfully right. England is no longer English or white. I used to really admire England and used to love to visit London, and even though, it’s always been “diverse”, it has never been so full of non-Europeans as it is now. When you get on the tube, all you see is different tribes of Africa or India. Not that those people are bad, it’s just that it is not European or English anymore. Even though I live in a much poorer country, I could NEVER move to or live in London (or any sizable UK city, or Paris for that matter). Because it is no longer European. I no longer consider France and the Netherlands white countries either. And what is worse – you are not allowing the indigenous English have any say in this matter. How is this for freedom of speech? And you call yourselves the beacons of the free world? When someone like Emma West expresses the obvious truth, you beat her down. It is shameful.

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Jim June 6, 2012 at 05:55

OT

You know I always thought that fox news was the most male friendly of the national news companies.

But after reading this article on the poor doctor that got thrown out of a barnes and noble for being male fox news really shows it’s true colors.

Both the story and the video are a total male hating hit job. And the headline of the article is misleading as well. It sounds like he is NOT happy with their apology.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/05/arizona-doctor-ousted-from-barnes-and-noble-for-being-alone-in-children-section/?test=latestnews

As I have said time and time again the mainstream media is if not our biggest enemy it is certainly responsible for doing an absolutely enormous amount of damage to Men’s Rights.

I hate the media.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Opus June 6, 2012 at 07:20

‘daunting text wall’ – so that is where I keep going wrong.

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Uncle Elmer June 6, 2012 at 07:30

Goldern it, Forbes is at it again. Is there no way to stem this scourge?

Here’s the Real Reason There Are Not More Women in Technology

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markfidelman/2012/06/05/heres-the-real-reason-there-are-not-more-women-in-technology

elmer :

The whining over women in tech never ends, yet the three main reasons you cite provide all one needs to know about the subject. 1) Women are not inherently interested in technology 2) They “feel” they would not be good at it 3) They are not enthused about their co-workers.

And your time-honored response is that “we need to encourage more women….blah blah blah”

Yet nobody encourages the men to pursue tech, they just go after it with relentless passion and focus. Boys build telescopes and catapults out of cardboard tubes and whatever else they can scrounge up. Nobody holds their hands and “encourages” them about how exciting science is.

Men watch paint dry because they are fascinated by the physics. Women watch paint dry because someone tole them it was a good career move.

Now back to your 3 points. Women are not drawn to tech because they enjoy social interaction above all else. They want jobs where they can sit around and gab about their feelings and personal soap operas, and that activity is not generally available in the realm of machines and chemicals.

Peter Drucker, in his famous essay “Managing Oneself”, advised strongly the need to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and observed that you can never win by improving your weaknesses, only by improving your strengths. That is a fascinating thought.

In broader socio-economic terms, we have given women the opportunity to build on their weaknesses (ability to compete against men) and discouraged them from capitalizing on their strengths (youth and fertility). They compete through artifices of fairness and inclusion that are borne on the backs of an ever-dwindling pool of male supporters.

We have weakened society as a whole by building on women’s weaknesses in attempts to make them the equal of men, rather than encouraging them in their natural strengths. And while this charade is going on, men are encouraged to adopt feminine attitudes and lifestyles at the expense of their own natural strengths, now deemed unnecessary in the new gender-neutral economy.

It’s time to stop pandering to women’s feelings about “tech” and put our resources back into the men who will produce the technologies we need to prosper in the 21st century, rather than squander our time and money providing phony make-work tech careers for females.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 2
keyster June 6, 2012 at 07:56

I looked up Clarence Thomas, you’re right, he served in EEOC until 1990, but he helped draft the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which was what I was thinking of.

The Civil Rights Act of 1991 was passed in response to a series of United States Supreme Court decisions which limited the rights of employees who had sued their employers for discrimination. It reformed legal aspects, such as class action suits. Clarence Thomas did not help draft it and actually opposed many aspects of it. To say it’s similar to The Paycheck Fairness Act is grossly innaccurate.

If you’re going to cherry pick bad things conservatives have done years ago, I want to make sure it’s factual.

On the one hand, I’m happy that the GOP took down Mikulski’s bill; but like she said: ‘we’ll be back.’ And who knows if the GOP can do it a second time?

So now you’re blaming the GOP for what they might not be able to do in the future? Why must MRA’s see something negative in EVERYTHING; especially if its something Conservatives do?

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Art Vandelay June 6, 2012 at 09:17

Why must MRA’s see something negative in EVERYTHING; especially if its something Conservatives do?

Because they should know better.

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Opus June 6, 2012 at 09:36

@Ted

Agreed

There is nothing like an English working class woman for getting to the heart of the problem – witness Chantel’s effortless demolition of Geroge Galloway, or, an acquaintance of mine who, in my view, needled a certain american lesbian academic, who when I told her (in response to her question) as to what I was reading [Butler's Gender Trouble] replied ‘don’t you know what you are then’? or most famous of all Mandy Rice Davies who, in court replied to Counsel who had suggested that Lord Astor had neither had an affair with her or even met her replied, ‘well he would say that wouldn’t he’. Indeed he would.

Emma West is cut from the same cloth.

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Uncle Elmer June 6, 2012 at 09:42

elmer continues ravishing the ForbesWomen :

Women in tech I have known and admired 1) were interested in technology 2) did not need anyone’s opinion of their work 3) were bored and annoyed by female small talk.

But the Forbes prescription is to pressure women to pursue something that inherently does not interest them over those things they are naturally drawn to.

Women crave small talk. You think that’s bad. But females, through their socialization and homemaking skills, impress language upon children, and that is a good thing. Sadly, many of today’s young gals are burdened by the wrongful expectations of self-appointed busybodies’s upon their actual interests while simultaneously being denigrated for wanting to contribute to society in the way that builds the greater good : bearing and nurturing children.

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PeterTheGreat June 6, 2012 at 10:10

As regards Slav and Slave, that is certainly correct. Another reason why Russians and Ukrainians hate Muslims.

Here’s a good article on Irish slaves – after reading this you will understand why the Irish hate the English:

The slaves that time forgot

Isn’t it funny how we never, never hear anything about this?

They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African. The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves. This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry. In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end it’s participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery.

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong.

Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories.

But, where are our public (and PRIVATE) schools? Where are the history books? Why is it so seldom discussed?

Or is their story to be one that their English pirates intended: To (unlike the African book) have the Irish story utterly and completely disappear as if it never happened.

None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.

Unlike the African slaves, this chapter in the history of their people does not define the Irish. Nor would they want it to. And they were hardly the only Europeans forced into slavery.

The purpose of this post is to point out what the establishment has obviously forgotten or conveniently overlooks.

http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/jamesedwards/the-slaves-that-time-forgot/

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Old Guy June 6, 2012 at 11:08

I thought we passed this law several times in the past.

The answer to this is to pay everyone by the hour worked, on a pay scale determined by educational level and years experience, and standard percent commissions where applicable. Pay people enough to buy their own health insurance.

This is also good for men. They are best off getting out of the cube ghetto and becoming independent contractors. All those empowered women are going to need men to fix stuff around the house, and without a pussy whipped slave, they will have to pay for it.

If you don’t have a woman and mini-van full of brats to support, your needs are far less and any surplus can be spent on a fishing boat, motor cycle, sports car, or super-size TV as your needs dictate. You can eat grilled meat, sleep late on weekends, and watch a game without getting nagged.

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Art Vandelay June 6, 2012 at 11:48

The answer to this is to pay everyone by the hour worked, on a pay scale determined by educational level and years experience, and standard percent commissions where applicable. Pay people enough to buy their own health insurance.

Well by that logic my colleague with half the work output would get a higher salary because he got a degree from an university. Of course one could always freelance, but with that idea you are just cementing the stranglehold of education institutions. How about employer and employee being able to freely negotiate (employees of course can choose to have a union negotiate for them) the terms of the employment and the government just keeps out, safe maybe for a minimum wage?

Of course, the concept of paying someone according to their productivity and performance is a concept very alien to politicians. If you look at the approval ratings for congress right now they should probably get a 50% cut.

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Eric June 6, 2012 at 12:03

Keyster,
I think you need to relax a little bit. You’re active politically, there’s nothing wrong with that—but I think you’re confusing ‘apathy’ with ‘non-political’.

I think our Founding Fathers tried to create a system of government that ran itself efficiently, and that didn’t require continual public input. Unfortunately, we HAVE to involve ourselves in it nowadays out of sheer self-defense; that’s what I think is a bad thing. Politics and Government is a science, and should be left to people who understand that science.

My only point here is that Conservative activists need to keep their leadership in line or they will become as bad as the Liberals. So it doesn’t hurt to point out where Conservative leadership is screwing up so that Conservative activists can be aware of their leaders’ misbehavior and spank them occassionally.

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Samizdat Jones June 6, 2012 at 12:13

For those who say “Romney is no better, he’s just another GOP SoCon white knight who ignores Men’s Rights, blah, blah, blah…”
…Are you getting it yet?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3dsekCn3e1rp5qv7o1_500.jpg

I get that the hands behind the puppets would like to see us too busy attacking each other to see just how badly they’ve screwed us over, if that’s what you mean?

Is the GOP pro-business? Of course! Just as the Democrats are pro-business–they just tend to favor slightly different industries. The problem isn’t this party or that party. The problem is a two party system and a complete inability for ordinary people like you and me change anything because of the entrenched bureaucracy that persists despite elections.

The problem is that despite both parties being in favor of businesses (just differing priorities on which ones matter most) neither party is in favor of men, nor are the puppetmasters sitting in their unelected positions of power in the bureaucratic system.

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Eric June 6, 2012 at 12:22

Opus,
I don’t see anti-white racism in Rookh’s writings at all. I think, as someone not native to Anglo-American culture, he does see objectively that a once-viable culture has deeper problems than most are willing to admit.

Like I mentioned to Charles Martel, the real problem in Britain is your oppressive speech codes. The fact that most of Emma West’s defenders here have been British or pro-British Americans is telling. It shows that what Britain lacks is a venue for discussing what Rookh called the ‘Ugly Realities’. As long as free speech is muzzled, it will come out in outbursts like Emma West’s, whereas in an open society, there are venues like talk-radio or the internet where they can be brought out in the open, discussed and debated. IOW, her actions, more so than her words, are the symptoms of a much deeper problem.

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scatmaster June 6, 2012 at 12:25

we Northern European whites are basically nuts.

us Canadians as well.

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scatmaster June 6, 2012 at 12:45

DirkJohanson said:

Do any of these studies comparing pay ever take into account that due to greater longevity, women earn several years more pension pay, or that they reap more in health benefits since they use them more in achieving that greater longevity?

Always thought men should be able to retire at least five years earlier than the wimmin with full pension and benefits.

Dreamer nothing but a dreamer

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Old Guy June 6, 2012 at 13:13

@Art Vandelay:
“How about employer and employee being able to freely negotiate (employees of course can choose to have a union negotiate for them) the terms of the employment and the government just keeps out, safe maybe for a minimum wage?”

I am not saying what is ideal. Ideal is for the government not to get involved unless there is a contract dispute than ends up in court.

What I was offering is the way I expect companies will respond to such a law. They are still going to need there to be some relationship between actual work performed and pay or they won’t survive.

I suppose the other tack is to hire only women. Then they can treat and pay them any way they want.

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ahamkara June 6, 2012 at 13:35

@Uncle Elmer and Charles Martel

You guys are right on the mark with this “femgineer” stuff. Notice how these really successful software companies, like Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. don’t have to be precise at all. If a couple of results are missing from a search, or a couple of tweets get dropped, who cares? I work with the Facebook API myself and it’s garbage. This is the kind of work our economy relies on nowadays, because it’s the only kind of work you can do when you’re propping up “oppressed minorities” in the workplace and academia.

I went to Stanford myself and that place makes me sick nowadays. If I had known then what I know now I would never have gone there. Phil Zimbardo recently wrote a book about how “damaged” our young men are. What a bunch of horse shit. Our young men are just fine, what we need to do is value and respect them.

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Szebran June 6, 2012 at 13:53

Sen. Barbara Mikulski is as bad as Barbara Boxer in Calif. Both are ardent and longtime feminists.

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universe June 6, 2012 at 15:31

(late to the discussion)
Paycheck Fairness Act?
How about an Information Veracity Act? (But that would be a prescient foreboding to Orwell’s warning of the Ministry of Truth).

As long as fraud feminism is alive, commanding attention to and stealing resourses for themselves and their willing herd will our culture have to endure the results of their destruvtive colluding (with seen and unseen corporate interests).

Fortunately we can turn to and rely upon non-feminst/white knight web-sites (like this one and AVfM, & others) to be the informed under-current of the present and shapers of the future (just have to believe it, be it and do it, boys).

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Richard June 6, 2012 at 15:35

If I had a daughter off to college, I would much prefer that she study Femgineering rather than Women’s Slutties.

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Opus June 6, 2012 at 15:43

@Eric

We do not have a first amendment – as you know – and I was wondering what action might have been taken against Miss West in the States. Would or could she have been charged? I think you are quite right about the inability of people to discuss the case in England because of the difficulty of doing so without merely repeating her assertions. She had a few supporters who held a rally outside her prison but they are dismissed as ‘right wing extremists’. The main political parties will not touch her. They are terrified that – before the Olympics – that there will be a repeat of last summer’s riots. In short they are terrified of black violence and will and do appease black criminality all the time. Very bizarre.

We suffer from Quangos like the Commission for Racial Equality which police what people can say – all in the name of equality and diversity of course; the BBC is politically correct at all times; and the press likewise. The situation is really bad here, where every organisation has to show its PC credentials, which of course includes pedestalising females.

The following may be an off the wall example, but recently, The Law Society – the body that regulates Solicitors of the Supreme Court, cancelled a conference on its premises – get this – because the organisation, a Christian Organisation and remember the UK is a theocracy subscribing to the Anglican view of Christianity – is opposed to homosexual marriage – not that Gay marriage is or ever has been permittted in the UK. The fact that the Bible hardly approves of it either is somehow irrrelevant. There are countless other bizarre examples of this sort of thing.

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Uncle Elmer June 6, 2012 at 17:35

Sue Your Boss And Still Show Up For Work? The Ellen Pao Story

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/06/06/sue-your-boss-and-still-show-up-for-work-the-ellen-pao-story

elmer contributes :

Hire a woman, hire a lawsuit.

The author responds :

Susan Adams, Forbes Staff 2 hours ago :

I had to call out this comment because I find it offensive.

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WRB June 6, 2012 at 18:09

Instead of asking “which sex is earning more?” it would be a lot more interesting to ask “which sex is spending more?”

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will June 6, 2012 at 20:44
Eric June 6, 2012 at 22:24

Opus,
Over here, it differs by state, but likely Emma West could never have been charged for what she said. She might have been arrested though for disturbing the public peace, disorderly conduct, or something similar to that. We don’t have anything like the Quangos you decribed either. We do have some private groups that are ‘watchdogs’ who report on the internet, about ‘hate speech’ or ‘hate groups’ but they don’t have any police powers.

There is however a strong ‘unspoken law’ in play here. For example, universities enact ‘speech codes’ and get away with it because of the American legal doctrine of ‘implied consent’ (by enrolling in a university you ‘imply consent’ to anything they want to do you afterwards). There are also blacklists, concerted media attacks and suppression, and other unofficial ways of enforcing political correctness.

But the 1st Amendment itself is really hard to circumvent legally. Basically, the only speech that is legally actionable are things like slander or verbal threats. To draw a parallel to the case you mentioned, we have a small fringe church in the US which protests gays at funerals and commits other provocative acts. The most the courts could do was order them into a ‘free speech zone’—they could still stage their protests but away from the actual event.

The problem with lack of free speech in Britain is really serious. I remember a few years ago the US talk-radio host Michael Savage was put under a British ban. He’s actually fairly politically moderate compared to some of the others here, but the UK banned him because of his opposition to gay marriage and radical feminism. But that’s a good example: Savage can put his ideas on the radio for discussion here, but he’d get arrested for even saying the same things on a corner soapbox in England.

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Hf June 6, 2012 at 22:41

“That alone accounts for the bulk of the gender pay gap.”

There is no pay gap. As someone noted earlier, if a woman was getting paid less for the same amount of work, then there would be no men working.

Though a company isnt required to disclose payroll, it does have to disclose operating expense. Say only 25% of Microsoft’s $20Billion administrative expense is payroll, that would bring MSFT’s annual payroll to around $5Billion. Now, lets say 50% of MSFT’s employees are male (we all know women dont like tech, so there are probably a lot more than 50% males on the payroll). And if we are to assume that there is indeed a pay wage gap (for easy math, lets put that gap at females making 80% of males), then that means MSFT could stand to increase their annual income by $500 Million immediately simply by firing all males and hiring in only females. Thats half of $1 BILLION, annually.

We all know its about the bottom dollar for a corporation like MSFT, it makes absolutely no economic sense to be paying men more for the same work they could be getting from a woman.

There is no pay wage gap.

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Eric June 7, 2012 at 01:07

Uncle Elmer:
If you really want to drop a bombshell on those nitwits at Forbes, ask Ms. Adams which gender (porportional to their numbers) files the most of these kinds of lawsuits against their employers, and how does much do these lawsuits cost US businesses each year? If she still finds that ‘offensive’, ask: Isn’t Forbes pro-business? That ought to bring on a feminine outburst in record time LOL.

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Opus June 7, 2012 at 01:56

@Eric

In addition to our lack of free speech, we are also the world’s Libel capital, in that the rules of libel are so onerous that rich people are able to use the law to hide their behaviour. The tentacles of English Libel law spread far and wide, and way beyond Great Britain, so that there has been criticism in America, as things done there can be sued for in England. I think of this as legal colonialism. Costs are also so onerous that it is often too risky to fight a case for fear of being bankrupted and Plaintiffs – especially those who are well funded – use the threat of legal proceedings as a weapon to cower their opponents. Then again there are the super-injunctions where not only may you not name who has the injunction but also not name what it is for. This is essentially secret and private law – for the rich. It always turns out that the person granted the injunction is a scoundrel.

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Eric June 7, 2012 at 02:28

Opus,
I’m glad you brought that up. There’s practically no transparency over there on account of those laws. I’m willing to bet the people running those Quangos, for example, are rarely ever criticised in public. Over here libel is an extremely difficult case to prove, in fact, any person deemed a ‘public figure’ can’t even sue for it except under highly extraordinary conditions. Again, though, here the rich and powerful have some pull with the media, and they can blackout unfavorable information to some extent.

I didn’t know that the Quangos were enforcing social policy over there to this kind of degree. What is the attitude in Britain generally about all this social control?

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Uncle Elmer June 7, 2012 at 06:51

“Isn’t Forbes pro-business?”

They’re “ForbesWomen”. They enjoy the perks and benefits of Daddy’s business acumen but are pro-feminist. As they don’t take the real risks or operate for-profit businesses, they advocate for various diversity and female promotion initiatives. Their flurry of essays on Trayvon Martin was hilarious, outdone only by Huffington Post and Salon.

If it was their own money on the line instead of the taxpayer’s or some corporation’s, the perspective would likely be different.

Example :

Republicans Are Wrong: We Need More Equal Pay Litigation, Not Less

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brycecovert/2012/06/06/republicans-are-wrong-we-need-more-equal-pay-litigation-not-less

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PeterTheGreat June 7, 2012 at 08:49

Evidently the Greek communist feminists think they can have slugfests with guys.

http://youtu.be/wVqJ7JRLCmg

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The Trend June 7, 2012 at 10:15
Emma the Emo June 7, 2012 at 11:11

Actually, there is a reason why women would paid less for the same work, and it’s not connected to how well they did the job. The boss can decide to pay more to the one who needs it more. In that case, to the provider who has a SAHM wife and kids. How many provider women with SAHD husbands and kids are there?
So bosses sometimes act against their interest and more selflessly (my mom’s boss paid more to a handless providing translator than to anyone else, but no one protested). I’m not sure how widespread it is, but if it is, it will be so unless women become willing to be providers and men to be SAHD.
That’s not to say this is oppression. The boss decides how much to pay. Both types of fairness are fair (fairness by how well the job was done and fairness by how badly you and yours need the money).

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Anonymous June 7, 2012 at 11:59

Might as well let them destroy everything. They’re never going to stop.

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Pat June 9, 2012 at 11:16

I believe Warren Farrell’s research showed, when all demographics are accounted for, women make MORE than men now. That is, given a man and woman with the same education, jobs, experience, etc., the MAN tends to paid less. In absolute terms, men do take home more, because they work more than women, and wind up with more experience. This is inevitable because men still provide for families more, while women take off or drop out of the workforce to have babies. To paraphrase Farrell, saying men earn more is like saying women in supermarkets with full shopping carts have more food. It’s not for them.

Anecdotally, have you ever held the same job as a woman and been paid more? It’s never happened to me. That would take cajones on the part of an employer, since it’s illegal.

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Pat June 9, 2012 at 11:42

In “the MAN tends to paid less” above, sorry I forgot the word “be.” I’d never make it as a secretary.

Farrell also pointed out that men’s tendency to do harder, duller, and more dangerous work than women holds true even for highly-educated professionals. For instance, male doctors work graveyard shifts in emergency rooms more than female doctors. They also work more hours for longer careers. So they end up with bigger paychecks, because men, far more than women, remain tasked to bring home the bacon. Will it be good for women if that changes?

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Traveler June 13, 2012 at 11:26

This is an odd bill to pass…I had previously believed that the majority of men and women are paid the same, even though it’s not what I’ve experienced personally. I’m 25, and have held 3 jobs so far all of which were managerial positions. Even though I work over 60 hrs, I am paid half of what my fellow manager does when he works 45 hrs. However, he is my friend, is 40 yrs old, and has a wife/3 kids to support…whereas I’m single and responsible for me alone. Our pay differences may be unfair to outside eyes, but I think more companies need to give paychecks based on employees needs along with how they do their job.

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