After 25, Women Are Just Wasting Time

by W.F. Price on May 30, 2012

I’ve got a female friend I talk to fairly regularly, and while we don’t see eye-to-eye on everything, I find she has a pretty good take on the American situation regarding men’s and women’s relations. So, while talking the other day about how young women are holding out for so long these days, she gave me a good insight about how attitudes amongst the young are influencing family formation.

As one gets older, life patterns that were hidden by youth and inexperience start to emerge. This is often accompanied by the realization that a lot of what we took for granted while young was dead wrong. For example, when in their adolescence and 20s, people tend to assume that “anything is possible” — that if you just believe hard enough things can come true. It’s an endearing trait in young people, and rather sweet, but eminently subject to manipulation, and usually not even close to true.

The reality is that by about 25, your future can be fairly well predicted by your life at that point. Perhaps not the details, but the general character. The thing is, people don’t change much past that age. Of course, things can happen to alter your course. You could land a great job, get laid off, develop an addiction or come into an inheritance. However, you can usually take a look at what someone is doing at around 25 or so and predict what they will be doing in ten years. Chances are, it won’t be too different. This holds true even for those on the fringes, such as Bill Gates and habitual criminals. Bill Gates may not have been so rich at 25, but he was already working hard and competing in business. The circumstances may have changed around him as he succeeded, but the man and his mission remained fundamentally the same. Someone in jail for theft at 25 may eventually get better at stealing, and land a job where he can do so without facing prosecution (e.g. faith healer, new age guru, etc.), but he’s still going to be the kind of guy who likes taking without offering anything in return.

However, young American women have been sold a bill of goods. They think that if they hold out and continue to believe, something miraculous will happen. A recent story about Marina Keegan, a Yale graduate who tragically died in a car crash, highlights this.

Here’s a passage from her final essay:

We’re so young. We’re so young. We’re twenty-two years old. We have so much time. There’s this sentiment I sometimes sense, creeping in our collective conscious as we lay alone after a party, or pack up our books when we give in and go out – that it is somehow too late. That others are somehow ahead. More accomplished, more specialized. More on the path to somehow saving the world, somehow creating or inventing or improving. That it’s too late now to BEGIN a beginning and we must settle for continuance, for commencement.

When we came to Yale, there was this sense of possibility. This immense and indefinable potential energy – and it’s easy to feel like that’s slipped away. We never had to choose and suddenly we’ve had to. Some of us have focused ourselves. Some of us know exactly what we want and are on the path to get it; already going to med school, working at the perfect NGO, doing research. To you I say both congratulations and you suck.

For most of us, however, we’re somewhat lost in this sea of liberal arts. Not quite sure what road we’re on and whether we should have taken it. If only I had majored in biology…if only I’d gotten involved in journalism as a freshman…if only I’d thought to apply for this or for that…

What we have to remember is that we can still do anything. We can change our minds. We can start over. Get a post-bac or try writing for the first time. The notion that it’s too late to do anything is comical. It’s hilarious. We’re graduating college. We’re so young. We can’t, we MUST not lose this sense of possibility because in the end, it’s all we have.

Marina was a much-loved daughter and bright, energetic girl. The point I’m making here is in no way intended to disparage her memory, and as I mentioned before this sense of hope and possibility is one of the most endearing things about the young. The only reason I’m choosing her essay to make a point is that, because she was a gifted writer, she was very good at expressing exactly the outlook I am referring to here.

Actually, Marina points out two mistakes that characterize youthful thinking. The first, which she herself rejects, is the idea that one can plot out a perfect path through taking predetermined steps. This is flawed reasoning. Although we can count on being the same person some years down the road, circumstances are very hard to predict. The first group of Yale students is mistaken, but perhaps not as far off the mark as the second.

The second attitude, which characterizes her personal philosophy, is that it’s never too late to do anything. She calls the idea that it might be important to do some things before they are too late “comical” and “hilarious.” A 22-year-old Yale graduate may still have some time to laugh at this notion, but really not as much as one might think. Four years of college buys women precious little time in the mating market. It may make them more eligible as far as stable, employable husbands are concerned, but the same factors that affect the value of a working-class girl are at work with Ivy League grads.

I’d guess that college buys young women about exactly as much time as it takes for them to complete it, because their pool of future mates tends to go through the same process (although the distorted sex ratio in college is changing this). That’s to say that she has her best shot to land a good match up to perhaps 25, whereas an average girl might have it up to 21. It isn’t to say that they have to get married immediately, but rather that by that age they should have already found a future husband. Most people put off marriage for a few years, so when you see the well-educated woman marrying at 28 or so, she’s probably already had that boyfriend for several years.

The problem with young women today is that they internalize this “anything is possible” attitude and don’t lose it until it really is too late for many of them. They think they can do better at 30 than at 22, which, in most cases, is simply wrong. Some might say that family and men are not a priority for these girls, but women for whom this is really true throughout life are an insignificant minority. In fact, most women are holding out precisely because they think they can get a better man later, perhaps when they have a better job and work with more powerful men.

But these girls are not going to change fundamentally, and in their early 20s are at the peak of their beauty while still retaining an innocent charm. Nothing about their looks or personality is going to make them more appealing at 30 than at 22, and the men available to them are not going to get any better, either.

And what of the men? At 25, is he serious, responsible and cautious? There you have a man who will probably have a good, but perhaps not remarkable, career. Does he prefer smoking weed and playing video games in his spare time? There you have a future couch potato. Is he competitive, materialistic and a smooth talker? Sounds like a salesman. Does he charm his way into bed with you and then drift away after a couple months of passion? Well, in that case you just got gamed.

The point is that neither men nor women change fundamentally past a certain point, and the same guys young women have available in their early 20s are generally the same guys that will be available at 30, only they will be older and, due to marriage, there will be far fewer of them.

For men who want a family, the same rules apply, although they are somewhat more forgiving. However, contrary to some common refrains I read, younger women are not always better for mature men. It’s easy to fall in love with a beautiful young girl while overlooking some fundamental incompatibility or flaws in the relationship, and these days, without any protection from marriage, that can end pretty badly. A man may be able to wait a bit longer, and even gain some by doing so, but past a certain point – say the early 30s – that no longer applies except in the case of very wealthy or powerful men. By 35, most men are faced with the same problem that women run into in their late 20s: the pool of potential mates is aging and rapidly shrinking.

It’s time we started being honest with the young people around us. When I was a kid, we were force-fed the message that we can do and be whatever we want from before kindergarten. Too many of us find out the hard way that this was a lie, but fortunately when it comes to career and getting by in life we tend to survive it. However, when it comes to family, the results can be far more cruel, especially for women. Time tends to accelerate past a certain age, and the 25-year old woman soon finds herself 30, and then 35, and at that point she’s got precious little of it left. Perhaps at 22 she was laughing about the “comical” notion that it could ever be too late, but after a certain point it is no longer comedy, but tragedy, and her laughter turns to tears.

{ 304 comments… read them below or add one }

Zorro May 30, 2012 at 03:13

An important point, and well said.

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Opus May 30, 2012 at 03:22

A fine essay.

I have noticed and frequently say, that people are going to get where they are in life by their mid to late twenties. After that it is only more of the same. In terms of personality, slight quirks in the early twenties seem to grow – like a mole – larger and become more obvious over time, although it has to be said that frequently men seem unchangable over the decades.

‘You will regret playing so hard to get’ – I said to this single childless forty year old(!) ‘when you are older’. ‘How dare you’ she almost screamed at me, and continued her tirade of denial. Later on, I discovered (never mind how) that amongst her books, she has one entitled: ‘How to stay young fit and sexy a until you are eighty’. No wonder she was so angry with me.

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AfOR May 30, 2012 at 03:29

lot of truth in this, the disconnect from reality, even when reality starts to sink its teeth in…

I had a really interesting talk with a wimminz yesterday, friend of the family, global level high flyer in marketing. You KNOW the brand name of the company she works for.

I mentioned the fact that if you check PoF daily, you get the EXACT SAME FUCKING PHRASES suddenly appear on wimminz profiles, wimminz who are geographically separated and CANNOT reasonably all know each other, like there is some sort of hive mind at work.

She looked at me like I was 5, and said “Well Duh!” and laughed uproariously, then said “What the hell do you think my job IS?”

She went on to explain that it is well known that wimminz as a whole can be manipulated as a herd by such things as simple and soundbites in an advert or a simple catchphrase, like “Because I’m worth it”, to a level and degree than mere men simply cannot comprehend.

She told me that “they” knew within 24 hours of the release of a magzine or a film with product placement or a pop video if X campaign had worked, because the day of release a google search for the phrase in question comes up with zilch, or just assorted crap, and the day after it comes up with screeds of hits to tweets and FB pages and wimminz blogs and yes wimminz dating profile pages.

She told me that if it did NOT have a 24 hour reaction then it was a bust.

We had a long an interesting conversation, in which many other things were mentioned, most blog it I suppose, but the point being wimminz and their susceptibility to delusions is not just well known, but the fundamental principle of much advertising and therefore propaganda.

love, eat laugh etc

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DCM May 30, 2012 at 03:32

Thanks to feminists modern females don’t understand the different male-female life cycles. Feminists have convinced them they can follow the male plan.
In reality, females should get married around age 16 to men about 20 and have their kids then. When the kids are becoming autonomous the female is only in her 30s and, having given birth at the right life stage, has lost less of her looks and flexibility than if she’d waited till 35. She can then return to school and work without harming her family. That is, assuming she hasn’t run out on a couple of husbands and become accustomed to living off them and the taxpayers.

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Pirran May 30, 2012 at 03:34

Great post and why that boundless optimism of youth can turn so nasty after divorce.

At that point (mid 30′s to mid 40′s), you can no longer delude yourself that things are going to get better in time. When (especially if you’re a guy) you find yourself in the crappy rental or the trailer park with your house, kids, car and money all gone; you just have to be accommodated to a much less glorious future.

If we’re being honest with young men, they need to know this. That Divorce 2.0 will rob them of all that they dreamed of as fresh-faced 22 year olds and more. For many, it will rob them of hope resulting in the ominous upswing of suicides in recently divorced men. Only with the complete reform of Marriage and Divorce 2.0 can this change.

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Andrew S. May 30, 2012 at 04:27

Go to any dating site on the internet and you will see the same women year after year. I tried POF for about a year-and-a-half, but came to the conclusion it wasn’t for me. Occasionally I will go back to check it out and see if there is any new blood, but for the most part it’s the same women.

I’m not sure what they are holding out for, but most of these serial internet dating gals are not much of a prize. And those who are half-way decent to attractive aren’t getting any younger.

But “women wasting time” is pretty much the norm for any guy who has tried internet dating.

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Days of Broken Arrows May 30, 2012 at 05:29

Opus isn’t kidding. There really is a book that promises people they can be sexy until they’re 80.

The exact title is: “Younger Next Year: Live Strong, Fit, and Sexy – Until You’re 80 and Beyond.” Below is the link. Even though it isn’t specifically aimed at women, females do buy the majority of self-help books.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Younger_Next_Year.html?id=nSvBa7hvG1EC

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crella May 30, 2012 at 05:41

‘They think that if they hold out and continue to believe, something miraculous will happen.’

Oh how I hate this. It’s sappy and one of the greatest life-wasting ideas I’ve ever heard. Common in women who watch a lot of TV, I’d bet. The whole ‘believe’ bit is so delusional…..nothing comes to anyone without effort. Nothing comes for free. The women who believe this crap will suddenly find themselves going nowhere fast.

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Art Vandelay May 30, 2012 at 05:42

They think that if they hold out and continue to believe, something miraculous will happen.

It’s also dangerous in it’s passivity. Means you aren’t really in control of your life, just waiting for randomness to favor you.

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demirogue May 30, 2012 at 05:44

Problem with young people is they aren’t around old people. They lack perspective and not of wisdom, but of everyday life itself. I’m 40 but consider myself an “old soul” and that’s because for 20 years prior, much of my time was spent with older people. I knew men that fought in WWII, from a Merrills Marauder to a guy who drove a jeep in Europe. Never mind my own parents who grew up in the depression, famine, WWII, a civil war, losing their own parents, just tragedy after tragedy. That kind of life experience isn’t instilled today because once you gain insight into what they went through, it’s easy to figure out that life here is gravy and people do more harm to themselves trying to live up to some twisted ideals that in the end don’t mean squat. Stop ignoring old people.

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Opus May 30, 2012 at 05:48

@Days of Broken Arrows

That indeed is the book and I am indebted to you for getting the title correct, though how one can be younger NEXT year defeats me. I did know one woman in her mid to late seventies however who genuinely was sexy (as everyone acknowledged) – never married. Must be dead now, but last time I saw her, I instantly slipped my arm round her waist, and pulled her to me, [Alpha or what?:)] yet even as I did so I sensed that her body was now becoming frail. Very unusual that: as most women are not sexy past menopause.

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Poiuyt May 30, 2012 at 05:54

This perverted society, assumes a false and malign starting point that only females have any choices or options to make in life. All others, being mere tools, must accommodate themselves to whatever plans the worthier female makes.

It is from these abominable grounds that fathers, husbands and children especially boys stand to be forcibly monetised and striped of their full family member status by the woman. That is, because only the woman in any family has full citizenship and protected status.

But again, these women’s callous and vile behaviours are only made so, because the social structures staffed and policed by vile and god awfully disgusting white knight males permit it.

Now we are bequeathed by these men with a society characterised by sexual, criminal, social and economic deviance. It is pure timidity, and shameless cowardice before their wives and daughters that sustains these headless and rudderless males posing as leaders.

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Lara May 30, 2012 at 06:00

In regards to looking for a husband, I agree women are just wasting time after age 25. You really aren’t going to do any better.

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Lara May 30, 2012 at 06:01

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 06:07

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 06:07

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 06:10

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The Contrarian Expatriate May 30, 2012 at 06:10

But why shouldn’t women feel this way? Women “can have it all.” They are “fabulous.” Women rule. Women first. Women are 20 when they’re 30, and 30 when their 40. Women, women, women.

Screech, crash, halt! (Then comes reality when the cuteness wears off and the pounds set in….).

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walking in hell May 30, 2012 at 06:16

“The problem with young women today is that they internalize this “anything is possible” attitude and don’t lose it until it really is too late for many of them. ”

“Anything is possible” is true. All men should be taught that “anything is possible.”

You work very hard and achieve a wife, children, a good job, and social status–anything is possible in the good ole US of A.

The angelic wife you loved and trusted, begins to turn into a completely different person. You work hard to accommodate your wife and make sure she is happy during her change phase. Of course you can make her happy because anything is possible.

You come home one day and everything is gone including your wife and child–anything is possible. Your wife files for divorce and the courts give her everything including your child; this is not possible right? Wrong, anything is possible.

You now question everything you believed in, mostly your country and it’s justice system and promises. You study your country’s history. In fact as you go deeper into history and monetary systems, you find that elites created the feminism that helped change your wife and destroy you, your children and career.

Anything is possible. There is no limit as to the possible ways a man’s life can be destroyed these days.

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 06:19

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Art Vandelay May 30, 2012 at 06:21

I would say the same goes for men at about age 30.

Well yeah but why would a man be looking for a husband in the first place?

To be honest, women wise it’s gotten better for me over the years, compared to late teens early twenties. Don’t know if that’ll change after 30 but well I’m not looking to get married anyways.

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walking in hell May 30, 2012 at 06:32

“If we’re being honest with young men, they need to know this. That Divorce 2.0 will rob them of all that they dreamed of as fresh-faced 22 year olds and more. For many, it will rob them of hope resulting in the ominous upswing of suicides in recently divorced men. Only with the complete reform of Marriage and Divorce 2.0 can this change.”

Though I don’t believe there will be marriage reform (how could there be?), I do believe in American marriage abandonment and marriage overseas.

If young men out there have dreams about getting married in America and having a family, you should talk to me first. I guarantee I can give you an alternative perspective that may save your life and the lives of any unborn children you may have been dreaming of.

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beta_plus May 30, 2012 at 06:38

@Lara

“I would say the same goes for men at about age 30.”

Well then most of the mid to lower beta men of Generation X will be going their own way. Forget looks, the women that they have available to them simply are not worth the risk of modern divorce and the heartache of hypergamic solipsism on his (?) children and him.

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 06:44

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 06:45

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Opus May 30, 2012 at 06:48

@FFP

Although I had no choice but to red arrow you, I must confess you are quite right. I observe plenty of women in their forties and beyond, arm in arm with young guys in their twenties; men drooling over these older women. Women who have somehow failed to reproduce; but are they sad? – not a bit of it: they have never felt or looked better (as they pound the excercise bikes and embark on yet another crash diet: Atkins, Dukan Paleo).

I stand back in admiration as I watch these couples pass, envious that she can pull any man she wants, and as the woman reaches for her purse to pay for the meal, the theatre, or a new outfit for her young man, conscious that tonight he will be pinning her to the matress; telling her how beautiful she is, and how desirable; inexplicably (so it seems) ignoring those women somewhat younger then himself. Let us hope, that highly paid position at Encorpera continues, so she may continue to afford her new life-style as the men grow ever younger and ever darker, as she once again embarks on another holiday as a tourist in search of love and commitment.

By the way: thanks for the shaming. Few women (apart from Lara) at The Spearhead ever disappoint, and I am happy to say you provide no exception.

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criolle johnny May 30, 2012 at 06:48

demirogue
“Problem with young people is they aren’t around old people.”
A kindergarten class consists of a group of five year olds and (hopefully) one adult, the teacher.
The first grade class consists of the SAME five year olds and another teacher.
The second and third and fourth etc.
The only adults the children/students see for thirteen years are teachers, the nerds who have been in school their entire lives.
The students see no other adults except on television, and by definition they are clowns and entertainers. They see their parent(s) in the late evening and all too often their fathers on weekends.
When they graduate, they are THE SAME FIVE YEAR OLDS!
That “old person” working in the cafeteria scares the crap out of them.
Women, especially are NEVER going to become “old” because “old” is that woman with the hair net dishing out slop behind the glass line at school.
“Old” is that guy pushing the buffer in the hall.
“Old” is a loser and SHE will never be THAT! “Old” would take her out of her herd.
Perhaps we need to go back to a one-room school house with students of all ages, including “old” people learning to read.

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Uncle Elmer May 30, 2012 at 06:55

Great essay Price and as one of the Spearhead resident geezers I will say there is a lot to agree with and disagree with in what you say and in the commentary. I gotta go to work though, a career I defined for myself after all my failures and warshups. I remember Elmer Sr. when I was struggling in college in my mid-twenties saying “You’re not getting any younger Elmer…”. Thanks for the encouragement, Pops.

You are men dammit. There is plenty for you to do when you remove the shackles of other people’s definitions of what is possible. Yeah, you will run into brick walls. Devise a workaround. Learn Employment Game and stop accepting defeat when it is handed to you daily. Get a pair of gabardines, and executive style hairdo, and a copy of “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35″ by R.Don Steele.

Peter Drucker, in his famous essay Managing Oneself, advised strongly the need to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and observed that you can never win by improving your weaknesses, only by improving your strengths. That is a fascinating thought.

In broader socio-economic terms, we have given women the opportunity to build on their weaknesses (ability to compete against men) and discouraged them from capitalizing on their strengths (youth and fertility). They compete through artifices of fairness and inclusion that are borne on the backs of an ever-dwindling pool of male supporters.

We have weakened society as a whole by building on women’s weaknesses in attempts to make them the equal of men, rather than encouraging them in their natural strengths. And while this charade is going on, men are encouraged to adopt feminine attitudes and lifestyles at the expense of their own natural strengths, now deemed unnecessary in the new gender-neutral economy.

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LeaveaComment May 30, 2012 at 07:00

If you google: “nobody told me” “biological clock”

You will find a number of articles where women are suddenly realizing fertility 101 lessons that it is harshly too late to get a kid they crave. Most of these women are well-educated, in good physical shape, ‘strong and independent’. Some women think if they hit the gym, the biological clock does not apply to them. They are in for rude awakening.

It looks like the topic of biological clock is a political minefield. Not even OB-GYNs are willing to bring it on unsolicited.

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FFP May 30, 2012 at 07:01

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JeremiahMRA May 30, 2012 at 07:24

“Marina Keegan, a Yale graduate”

Honestly women shouldn’t be going to college at all. It’s a complete waste and takes away from people who can actually get something from education: men. The only reason they do it is to inflate their egos.

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JeremiahMRA May 30, 2012 at 07:27

So really I’d say it’s more accurate that after puberty, women are just wasting time. Wasting time slutting around, going to school, working, when they should be getting married to whomever their fathers say and having children, which is really all women are good at.

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JeremiahMRA May 30, 2012 at 07:43

Today women choose mates based solely on lust and greed. Women don’t love, the only thing they love is getting fucked hard and being provided for by a man or the government. This is why in any sane (patriarchal) society a girl’s father decides who she is to marry.

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Eximio May 30, 2012 at 07:57

Great post. I have to say that I agree that people are pretty much defined by the age of 25. I do think some can make huge changes after that age, but those usually result from the shock of external events. But it is rare.

I went to a high school reunion a few years back. It was the first I had every been to. Enough time had past that we were all past our “prime” family building years. So, in other words, we were all on that downward slope. I saw some striking things at that reunion, learned a bit, and came away a bit more wise. The first was, of course, that you end up looking like you have lived. The drinkers, smokers, etc., looked like they had abused their bodies. The laborers looked more worn than the office workers. And so on.

But even more striking were to things. One that will surprise nobody. And another that surprised at least me. First, men do age better than women. I looked around at the women and they all just looked old to me. I could not imagine myself with any of them. They had lost whatever charm they had and I found attractive the last time I had seen them. Almost all of the men that were there with their spouses were with younger women. Second, just about everyone seemed be distilled versions of my memories of their character and personality. If someone was outgoing and talkative in high school, they seemed at the reunion to be almost purely defined by that attribute. If they were soft spoken in high school, they were downright introverted and almost mute at the reunion. If they were serious students with a strong desire for academic achievement, even though I could remember them goofing around at times in high school, the developed into the sort of people that seemed permanently serious by the reunion. They were also all in focused careers, mostly all successful in those careers.

As for the women specifically, while they all seemed old, I noted that the happiest of the lot talked about their family. Some of them were married, some of them divorced, but in both cases they talked about their kids. They were clearly the most fulfilled. Many of the other women than I knew had pursued consuming careers were not at the reunion. Those that were, and who did not have children, had a whiff of pain on their faces. They seemed to be looking around and suddenly forced to face the consequences of their choices.

And Uncle Elmer really has a key insight. We are weakening our society by encouraging, in fact requiring, both females and males to reject their strengths and pursue their weaknesses. Gender feminism is one of the reasons. A utopian desire by “progressives” for everyone to be average is another reason. The end result, though, is bad for everyone.

On final point, while it is best for women to try to procure a mate and set on a path to having a family by the age of 25, it is no longer in the best interest of a man to go along with it. She can have children, then be set “free” on the back of an invisible man that provides the funding for that “freedom.” Divorced men are often thankful for their children, but the chances of loosing much influence in their children’s lives, and even loosing all access to their children, is just to great to take the risk. I advice men in their 20′s to just not allow themselves to get ensnared in a woman’s natural desire – which upfront or hidden – to have children. I tell them to wait, make some money – pre “community property” money – and get around to looking for a mate in their 40′s. They can pursue a younger women at that time, and know that if a marriage does not work, they can keep at least part of their hard earned money.

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MKW May 30, 2012 at 08:26

@ FFP

“There’s nothing wrong with being single. Just like men are given the choice to be MGTOW, so should women who choose to be single, be left alone and not pestered with moralizing. I know it hurts you to see so many “fresh” 20somethings on the shelf and in no rush to tie themselves to betas, but that’s just how it’s gonna be now.”

I have no problem with women remaining single, and (contrary to your strange assertion) it doesn’t “hurt” me at all. What I have a problem with is women saying they want to remain single, aggressivley saying “no MAN is gonna tie me down!” and proudly boasting of their independent lifestyle … and then waking up at age 33 and suddently getting angry that no faithful, reliable, gainfully-employed man is interested in marrying them.

Because that’s what’s happening. These same women who say “ain’t nobody gonna make me settle down” at 26 are completely reversing field and demanding a husband at age 33. And then getting angry that there isn’t one there for them. The most obvious case you could possibly find of someone being harmed by their own actions, and they immediately look around for someone to blame.

Anyway, your comments (very prolific, by the way – maybe you could combine your thoughts into 1 or 2 comments rather than 8?) don’t bother me at all. I don’t care what happens to you or them. I love my life, and if there’s something about it I don’t like, I change it, rather than case about for someone to blame for it.

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namae nanka May 30, 2012 at 08:27

“Time tends to accelerate past a certain age, and the 25-year old woman soon finds herself 30, and then 35″

It certainly goes much faster as you age. Though their slipping beauty might help.

““Marina Keegan, a Yale graduate”

Honestly women shouldn’t be going to college at all. ”

Smarter girls should attend college earlier than their average peers.
And it will persuade other less-serious ones to reconsider the ‘go to college’ mantra.

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Uncle Elmer May 30, 2012 at 08:43

Two great female delusions :

1) I am young and hot and free to choose into my 30′s and beyond.

2) and besides, it’s only fair and equal that men lose out as they get older. Right? Men in their 40′s are creepy and nobody wants them.

Truth : men and women are on vastly different trajectories. Understand the curves and apply them to your life. Beware of “equality poisoning”.

Criminy, if I were a young, hot female in western society I would think it lasts forever myself.

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Lara May 30, 2012 at 08:49

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Opus May 30, 2012 at 08:55

So what is the true position? Are women leaving it too late and chasing pointless dreams in corporate cubicles as the essay seems to fear or is it a brave new world, with endless possibilities for the newly empowered woman as commentator FFP decrees (she’s a woman don’t you know, so don’t you dare disagree)?

Over at our good friend Dalrock’s Blog he has some charts which make interesting viewing. From memory they reveal (ia) that by the age of 45 no less than 93% of women have married at least once. That is not to say they remained married or that they enjoyed it. Clearly that, is even historically, a very high take up rate which suggests that actually and contrary to the stuff the media tells us Singledom is not very popular – although freedom to be a slut is always an option. His charts also show that most live births happen to women aged between 21 and 35 – something like 75% and with only a couple of percent taking place after the age of forty. I know of one unhappily married woman who arried at 40 and embarked (unknown to her new – and first – husband) on fertility treatment; without succeess – she by the way has never been happier as she flirted with me and told me of the wonderful holidays she has on her own, where she meets men called Marco and Fernando, and Muhammed. How nice for her – but I wasn’t interested.

But what is my own personal observation (and I speak as a single guy and one who swore never to get involved with a woman in her forties – at that age the single ones have all got baby-rabies)?: Of my four close friends three are married and the other is in an LTR. Of those four men, only one has a wife of about the same age (slightly younger actually) the others are all with women a decade younger. All the women have at least one child with all children being born in the age-range 21-35.

So, is anything possible? Americans have a very can-do attitude, but that can easily slip into fantasy thinking – why else are there something like 50,000 self-help books available from Amazon. If a man is fully mature at 28 and a woman at 21, (I amend Schopenhauer but agree with the Romans) then what evidence is observable that the conveyor belt of life will carry you up after those ages if you are not already on the escelator. Not much I think. Most men get chucked about of Encorpera aged about fifty.

By the way, can anyone think of ONE – just one example of a mainstream Hollywood film where the lead actress is older than the Male (without that itself being part of the plot eg Witness for the Prosecution where Marleine Deitrich was 7 or so years older than Tyrone Power ?). When that begins to change, I would be willing to reconsider the view that men are interested in older women (beyond pump and dump or green cards) but not until then. Consider this for cruelty on the part of God. Was there ever a more beautiful ice cool beauty than Elke Sommer. A solid 9 and then some when she played opposite (the awful) Paul Newman in The Prize in 1962. Consider her thirteen years later in Carry on Behind – still good looking but no more than a 7 – I looked at a recent photo, and then one of the once lovely Sylvia Sims, and then Bridget Bardot. Why do the best looking women all turn into bag ladies?

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Raj May 30, 2012 at 08:59

The problem with young women today is that they internalize this “anything is possible” attitude and don’t lose it until it really is too late for many of them. They think they can do better at 30 than at 22, which, in most cases, is simply wrong. Some might say that family and men are not a priority for these girls, but women for whom this is really true throughout life are an insignificant minority.

You are giving the ladies too much credit in painting them as an innocent victim of the social climate. They are not somehow fooled into thinking they can do better. It is a well thought out strategy to try to obtain more, and if they can’t have more they still have more than enough. When women portray themselves as lonely and suffering past 30 and you believe it, its you who’s getting fooled.

You are also confusing “need a man” with “want a man”. Women who need a man act very differently than those who want one. No checklists in profiles, no backtalk, no demands, just gratitude. I urge you to try to find it in post 30 women in our society.

Men themselves have made husbands redundant by providing all benefits of a husband upfront to all women for free. Bad business move, wake up.

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keyster May 30, 2012 at 09:02

Every May you see our higher institutions of learning trot out various celebrities and politicans for commencement speeches telling graduates how Special they are.

Obama (women only) Barnard College
Oprah (black women only) Spelman College
Sonya Sotomayer
Joe Biden
Christianne Amanpour
Andy Samberg (?) Harvard
Jane Lynch
Katie Couric
Michelle Obama

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/the-18-best-commencement-speeches-of-2012/

Take a moment to see if anything they say actually makes any sense.

A friend of mine’s daughter finally found her “dream job” in NYC after graduating from Columbia in journalism last year. She’s making about $18K a year as a glorified intern for a publication there (probably Forbes or Vogue), and shares a studio apartment in SoHo with 3 other independent and empowered young women. Sex and the City dreams! WOOoooEEEeeee!

Yes, she’s 25 and marriage/motherhood is not even on her radar screen.

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Huck Finn May 30, 2012 at 09:09

I find that women overall have a more unrealistic attitude than men of what is real, deserving, and possible in life. Yesterday, while leaving the library, a woman in her late 50s approached me trying to get my signature on a petition to hold corporations to some higher tax standard that would go to the schools.

She stated to me that if unable to get the extra 4% tax out of the corporations which she determined they ‘should’ pay she would rather see them leave our state which has a high unemployment rate. Really? I asked what about the jobs the corporations provide now to people which would be lost? The taxes paid by those employed workers? The businesses those employed workers spend money at? The support vendors corporations require locally? The taxes (mega millions is better than no money) they do pay under the current tax structure. She couldn’t get any of it. It didn’t ‘feel’ fair to her.

She and a female teacher walking by didn’t like my belief that the schools don’t use taxpayer money well and didn’t agree with my examples how they waste money unrealistically. I didn’t sign the petition.

Earlier in the day, another woman asked me to sign a petition to legalize the growing of the hemp crop for industrial sales and uses: ropes, clothing, fuel, etc. I had no problem signing that petition.

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Marlowe May 30, 2012 at 09:18

I misread the title of this article. I thought it as “After 25, women are just a waste of time”

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keyster May 30, 2012 at 09:21

Uncle Elmer May 30, 2012 at 06:55

You are a wise motherf*cker.
You managed to narrow down the essence of western civilization’s decline (general malaise and demographic shifts), with an economy of words like no other.

You would never see this expressed in the (feminist controlled) mainstream, but it rings so undeniably true.

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Rob May 30, 2012 at 09:26

Lots of this is based upon the boomer-topian idea that men and women are basically the same. We are not – not even in the pair-bonding feature which gets mediated in the middle/mammalian brain. We exhibit “staggering” from the male to female (though not from the female to the male). You could see this in the older days, when childbirth was the number one killer of women – this left lots of widowers. When these guys, who were often in their thirties, remarried, they again chose young women in their most fertile age for their second wives – they did not choose women in their thirties/of a similar age to him… and the pair bonding worked – it gets strongly enforced by hypergamy and Briffault’s Law (a mid-thirties man is most often more powerful and wealthier than a younger man). Also an older man will not be manipulated by his wife to nearly the extent that a younger man will be – thus he will remain more “alpha” and dominant, which further strengthens the marriage.

Thus, the best way for everyone to “have it all” is for a man to spend the first 20 years or so of his adulthood as a single man, swash-buckle and adventure around the earth while building up his fortune, and then in his mid to late thirties, seek out a young bride. This will also be the time in a man’s life when he approaches mid-life crisis and he will be able to satisfy his “is this all there is to life” questions with the children that will give his life new meaning. He will live long enough yet to most likely see his grandchildren born and grow up, and thus realize his immortality through them.

For women, they should be looking to marry young – screw college. They can easily have 2 or 3 children by the time they are 25, and have the youngest one off to school by the time she is 30. Thus, the children will be properly raised in their early youth at least. 30 is not too late to enter college, and actually be there to learn something (as opposed to being a frat-party whore). Also, by this time, if the husband is around 15 or 20 years older than her, he might be looking to “slow down” and also likely has enough money that he can afford to do so, and take over some of the parenting responsibilities. It will be about at that age too when the children will need less totalitarian mothering, and more risk-taking fathering, for them to develop properly.

The woman would be out of school by her mid-thirties, and this is the age when women become desirable in the job-market. Despite all the laws to the contrary, business owners still aren’t stupid and don’t prefer hiring 25 year old women, because they know that maternity leave and “flex-time” costs them $$$. At my father’s business, we had a “silent policy” not to hire women under 35 simply because younger women cost the business too much money.

At 35, the woman still has plenty of time to advance her “career” and also, since her husband is older, he will die much sooner than her. Thus, she will have the last twenty years of her life to do her own swashbuckling around the earth – she will inherit his wealth and also have a well paid career. It also shortens the life of the marriage – 35 or so years, rather than 50 or 60.

The only kink in it, is that the father should will his wealth to his son(s) with a codicil that they must provide a living stipend to the mother, or something along those lines. Nothing would be a worse insult for the deceased father than for the mother to inherit it all, remarry, then die and have the new husband inherit all of the wealth of the previous husband – thereby robbing the deceased husband’s children of the wealth he worked his entire life for.

It works biologically for both the man and the woman… and the children. Staggering works quite well in regard to pair-bonding. Both the man and the woman can chase after their careers – just at different times in their lives. They also will both have long durations of adulthood when they are not tied down by spouse & children, allowing them to pursue their aspirations… just at different times.

We should stop treating men and women as the same, and recognize that the differences can be worked into better ways.

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Uncle Elmer May 30, 2012 at 09:27

Keyster : “You are a wise motherf*cker.”

Gee thanks Keyster. But dammit guys, I gotta go to my gig at a high-security installation with no internet.

By the way, did someone say “Forbes”?

How To Be A Part Of The Male Conversations At Work

elmer agrees, for the most part :

“Intuition” : the art of reading people’s facial expressions. Men suck at this.

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keyster May 30, 2012 at 09:39

I don’t understand why men wait so long to get married.

Because there are NO WIVES TO MARRY; only competitors, co-workers and bosses…along with the occassional psycho-slut from Hell or divorced heroic single mom.

Not only does he need to get himself established in a worthy profession before he get’s married, he needs to compete with men AND NOW WOMEN as well, on a tilted playing field to do so. That’s the double-edged sword our brilliant cultural analysts fail to acknowledge. It’s why there’s a burgeoning and rather organic MGTOW.

You can try and social engineer Feminism by force through academic indocrination, MSM propaganda and government legislation but the market, in this case a man’s Free Will, will ultimately decide the natural outcome.

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MRA May 30, 2012 at 09:50

“In fact, most women are holding out precisely because they think they can get a better man later, perhaps when they have a better job and work with more powerful men.”

Powerful middle aged men are usually married or/and going around young women, you wont see a 45 successful man dating a 40 years old woman, what the media, feminists, liberals, college sell to women is that they are going to have men lined to be with them after getting a degree or working in the gov, what man get turned on by knowing a woman has a bunch of degree on her wall?

The cougar women is the desperate social force of women from the second wave usually with money living on pension and alimony who can’t get a man her age and doesn’t have any option but going to the young unemployed 20s man.

Just ask any male stripper how many times he gets offers from middle aged women to be his sugarmamma.

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namae nanka May 30, 2012 at 09:56

New study published on fertility awareness among American university students

“The findings from this study show that while undergraduate university students in our sample believed they are educated about fertility issues, they consistently overestimate the ages at which fertility declines in women, as well as their chances of success if they used fertility treatments to achieve pregnancy. It is important that men and women are educated regarding fertility issues so they make informed reproductive decisions, rather than relying on inaccurate information which may ultimately result in involuntary childlessness.”

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-05/cu-nsp050712.php

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Towgunner May 30, 2012 at 10:08

Slightly un-related but I think it’s relevant. Why does it seem that the meme of “anything is possible” is just directed at women? Why do just the girl scouts get a multi-million dollar ad campaign that says “accomplis[her]“? Why isn’t there an “equal” amount of consideration spent on men/boys? I wonder what kind of response you’d get from a male teenager when asked if they think anything is possible, particularly, versus the girls? I suspect the little guys response would be a truncated and sanitized statement akin to a eunuch thanks to his indoctrination and medication. Of course, this should be no surprise. From an MRA perspective, we should be asking ourselves how we can re-energize these young men with realistic and positive messages. No, I’m not suggesting the frivolous sound bites women conjure up that are unrealistic because there designed to appeal to emotion. I mean constructive messages; sure many things are possible as long as you…blank. What I find both interesting and telling of the true nature of feminism is the obvious trend of bring down to bring up. In other words, women-only societal encouragement is an ipsofacto admission of inferiority, made even more so by excluding men. Why? Because it implies that allowing men to receive positive messages would be detrimental to their plight. As such, a key theme in feminism and our femo-centric society is to make women appear to be moving up by bringing men down. As mentioned above by Eximio, gender feminism is making us all mediocre. Lastly, I think the biggest fear among feminist is having men (whether that be our MRA or MRM) come to our senses and start encouraging ourselves and boys with as much vigor as the females get. Why? Because they can’t compete, if they could, then we’d all be getting the same message already.

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Jennifer May 30, 2012 at 10:08

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Lara May 30, 2012 at 10:13

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Gilgamesh May 30, 2012 at 10:26

Just want to say that Jennifer calling anyone else an emotional infant is the funnies thing I’ve heard all day.

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Rob May 30, 2012 at 10:36

Older men can be pretty easily manipulated by young women. I think men do get better through their 20′s. After that, they really don’t improve much.

Most men start to figure things out in regard to women at around the age of 27 or 28. Before that age, they are often dumbfounded at the wily ways of women and have their vagina-goggles firmly on. It goes back to Schopenhauer where he says that men don’t really catch up to women’s maturity until they are 28, while women mature at about the age of 18.

The nobler and more perfect a thing is, the later and slower is it in reaching maturity. Man reaches the maturity of his reasoning and mental faculties scarcely before he is eight-and-twenty; woman when she is eighteen; but hers is reason of very narrow limitations. This is why women remain children all their lives, for they always see only what is near at hand, cling to the present, take the appearance of a thing for reality, and prefer trifling matters to the most important. It is by virtue of man’s reasoning powers that he does not live in the present only, like the brute, but observes and ponders over the past and future; and from this spring discretion, care, and that anxiety which we so frequently notice in people. The advantages, as well as the disadvantages, that this entails, make woman, in consequence of her weaker reasoning powers, less of a partaker in them. Moreover, she is intellectually short-sighted, for although her intuitive understanding quickly perceives what is near to her, on the other hand her circle of vision is limited and does not embrace anything that is remote; hence everything that is absent or past, or in the future, affects women in a less degree than men. This is why they have greater inclination for extravagance, which sometimes borders on madness. Women in their hearts think that men are intended to earn money so that they may spend it, if possible during their husband’s lifetime, but at any rate after his death.

One thing that differentiates men and women, however, is that men often continue to mature as they age, while women rarely do. You can well see this in our culture. 40 year old divorced women are out partying it up at the clubs acting as if they are still a young chick. They also bang guys in the same manner as young girls do… they talk the same way… they are basically the same as young women – except in older bodies.

Aside from men perhaps buying a sports car to try to relive his youth during mid-life crisis, most men continue to mature until at least 40. Zenpriest has a really good series on this called “Sexual Psychology” – here is part three called 40 to closing time. (Parts 1 & 2 are linked to that piece – sorry, already two links in).

The difference between men and women maturing is that women ripen fast – like cheap wine served in a box of Chateau Cardboard, while men mature like Single-Malt Scotch, aged for decades in an oak cask. It is about by the age of 40 that a man becomes permanently “set in his ways.” But a 22 year old man dating a 20 year old woman is horribly outmatched by her. You will see lots of guys saying too, that it was not until they reached around the age 27 or 28 that they started to figure out the ways of women – or at least noticed that there was something wrong with “the fantasy.” By the time a man hits middle age, however, he has matured even beyond this – thus, you don’t see 40 year old men trying to behave like 18 year old boys… you do however, se 40 year old women trying to behave like 18 year old girls (they just don’t have the bodies to pull it off – they have the minds for it though, lol).

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Rebel May 30, 2012 at 10:56

Hasn’t anybody thought that perhaps women do the same thing men do about marriage?

In the area where I live, no one ever thinks that marriage is a thing to go for: the divore rate and the bitterness that goes with it makes marriage an option that few indeed wish.

Everybody nowadays realized that this planet is dying because there are too many humans on it. Surely, this must affect the collective unconscious. Additionally, women can now have everything men have and… much more. Staying single and pursuing a career is more interesting to a woman that having a family.

Now, if you really think about it, an important reduction of the number of humans inhabiting this little planet can only be a good thing.

Why would anybody want to get married? For what worthy purpose?

Let’s face it: marriage is now so obsolete tht it belongs to moth balls.

Men AND women are now free fom one another. We can only rejoice at the thought.

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keyster May 30, 2012 at 11:12

Feminist propaganda campaign:
http://www.pbs.org/programs/women-and-girls/

PBS receives approximately 20% of it’s funding from our federal government. 60% comes from leftist/feminist endowments and corporate “underwriters”. The remaining 20% comes from regular fund drives.

What is a Leftist Endowment exactly?
It’s when a pioneering industrial age man’s aging wife or female progeny apportions the wealth HE created to leftist/feminist organizations and indocrination/propaganda efforts.

Meanwhile the MRM sometimes has little orange PayPal donate buttons on their blogs, where every so often men are asked to pick through the lint in their pockets for spare change.

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beta_plus May 30, 2012 at 11:18

@AfOR

Please write a blog entry if you ever get the chance.

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AfOR May 30, 2012 at 11:29

I must interrupt this to point something out.

On PoF, from a wimminz point of view, you are just some cyber cock, and there is no female peer pressure at work.

As a result, you get unprecedented and unintended levels of honesty from the wimminz on PoF, they are almost without exception vain, stupid, arrogant and repulsive entitlement princesses.

THIS is why so many wimminz find internet dating and PoF to be the Hotel California.

They are basically unfuckable, and don’t know how to fake being a human being in cyber.

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Anonymous age 70 May 30, 2012 at 11:37

@Opus

>>Over at our good friend Dalrock’s Blog he has some charts which make interesting viewing. From memory they reveal (ia) that by the age of 45 no less than 93% of women have married at least once.

Those figures have changed very fast. Dalrock is a brilliant man in most things, but he stubbornly says there is no marriage strike. And, that percent married by age 40 or 45 is part of his “evidence”.

He does not seem to understand basic calculus. 45 year old women would have been at average marrying age nearly 20 years ago. So, he is looking at 20 years ago. There was also a marriage strike 20 years ago, but not as bad as now. Wait 20 more years, and there will be a dramatic shift.

Here are the marriage rates. Study them out if you want to see why I say this is Dalrock’s only mistake.

Number of Marriages per 1,000
Unmarried Women Age 15 and
Older, by Year, United States:

1922 99 (found on Web)
1960 73.5
1961 72.2
1962 71.2
1963 73.4
1964 74.6
1965 75.0
1966 75.6
1967 76.4
1968 79.1
1969 80.0
1970 76.5
1972 77.9
1975 66.9
1977 63.6
1980 61.4
1983 59.9
1985 56.2
1987 55.7
1990 54.5
1991 54.2
1992 53.3 ** 20 years ago, compare to current rate
1993 52.3
1995 50.8
2000 46.5
2004 39.9
2007 39.2 (Rutgers 2009)
2008 37.4 (Rutgers 2009)
2009 36 (UVA 2010; project moved from Rutgers)
2010 34.2 Unverified estimate from Pew

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a_guy May 30, 2012 at 11:46

@Jennifer

Unfortunately, women are always emotional infants, whether they are 14 or 40. I’ve known some fairly intelligent women in my life, and to a woman, they all lose the ability to think logically when their emotions get stirred up. The example that I STILL find the most hilarious is a woman that I knew who had a master’s degree in physics and was working on her doctorate. A highly intelligent woman, no doubt. Well, she became enraged and defensive during a conversation we had one day when I had the audacity to suggest that the TV show “Xena: Warrior Princess” was not a realistic portrayal, and that it was ridiculous to believe that a woman could beat one trained man in a fight, much less ten at a time. I watched in absolute disbelief as this physics major tried to rationalize how such a thing could be possible, throwing all logic, reason and sanity out the window in order to do so, and becoming more belligerent as she went. That was definitely a red pill day for me.

Other women have exhibited the same characteristics. Intelligent when calm, irrational and illogical when even the slightest emotion reared its thick head.

We could ask women to wait until they are 30 so that they are more “mature” when they have kids, but it is only an illusion that women ever gain any greater maturity past their teens, barring some extreme, life-changing event (and often, not even then, as women rarely accept personal responsibility for anything, thus limiting their growth). So, we might as well have the women bear the children in their physically prime years, rather than waiting on some mythical time when female maturity sets in.

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What ever May 30, 2012 at 11:48

But if a 20 year old high school grad gets married, isn’t she practicly guaranteed a divorce by the time she is 27? Why would a guy want to take that risk?

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Opus May 30, 2012 at 11:56

Re-reading the essay I think that what – to sum it up – the author is saying is, that from the point of view of finding a mate, an extra four or so years can be given on top of what the non-college woman gets – a sort of dispensation for brains – for after all, a woman in her twenties is still highly desirable and a few years then makes little odds. The trouble comes when the female becomes so used to her single life that the desire for marriage (whatever they may say), is actually not so strong. It is at this point that no man is good enough – really they have gone off the boil and love and commitment is replaced by casual sex with Alpha types – who mysteriously fail to commit, and Beta males are invisible.

This reminded me of the chart (somewhere on the Androsphere) where a blue line represents a woman’s SMV and a red the man’s. The woman starts higher and reaches a peak at about 24 after which there is a slow decline: the man starts lower and reaches a peak at about 34 and then declines. So for example a 34 year old woman is considered as hot as a 44 year old man. It’s not a scientific study but feels right to me. I then (some while back) went through the six ‘serious-ish’ relationships that I commenced (and ended or had ended) in my thirties; added my age at commencement and divided by six and did likewise for the women involved. I found to my delight and surprise that the average age was 24 for the women and 34 for myself. If I had done a similar chart for my mid to late twenties (my gigolo period) I would have found that the average age of the women (cougars) was well into their late thirties.

Recently an English statistician concluded (on various assumptions) that the ideal marriage ages were 27 for a woman and 32 for a man. Sounds about right to me.

One of my care-free ex’s once said to me that an older woman had said to her, ‘you are happy go lucky now but you have reached the age (27) when life will begin to rush past-you at ever faster speed’. Wise words I think.

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Anonymous age 70 May 30, 2012 at 11:58

One of the dearies commented no one wants a man over 40. This was inherently wrong, even in the US. But, it is terribly wrong in other nations, such as Mexico; Central America; PI, and others.

I have written about my experiences here in Mexico. But, I estimate at least 5% of young women here actually prefer a much older man, if they can find one who is in good health and has assets. The Rich Guy in our village is a widow, age 78, and his 20 year old honey is pregnant with his baby. Yes, I know you dearies can rattle off all sorts of excuses to belittle this phenomenon, but you are wrong.

A cousin in his late 50′s, not especially affluent, married with a number of kids, also not especially handsome, told me a late teen girl asked to have his baby. He asked her why, when she could have a younger man. She said older men are more responsible; treat their women better, and are more affectionate. He turned her down, and she went with a young man after all.

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Ronin May 30, 2012 at 12:08

@ FFP
“There’s nothing wrong with being single. Just like men are given the choice to be MGTOW, so should women who choose to be single, be left alone and not pestered with moralizing. I know it hurts you to see so many “fresh” 20somethings on the shelf and in no rush to tie themselves to betas, but that’s just how it’s gonna be now.”

Those 20 somethings and yourself fail to realise that the “shelf” is supported by the betas they so disdain. Those betas include your fathers.
Speaking of which, i hereby decree Father’s Day be changed to Beta Provider’s Day.

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Peter South May 30, 2012 at 13:03

“Those 20 somethings and yourself fail to realise that the “shelf” is supported by the betas they so disdain. Those betas include your fathers.
Speaking of which, i hereby decree Father’s Day be changed to Beta Provider’s Day.”

See that’s the trouble, all this soul searching is always on my f$#@ing dime.

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Wilson May 30, 2012 at 13:06

I actually saw a story in my local newspaper examining deviants who “marry young”. When all her friends and even strangers–even men–express shock and horror that 24-year-old woman just got married, the inversion of values is complete. Raising a bastard child, becoming a cat-lady, shacking up with a dyke have become more socially valued for young women.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 13:28

Wilson:
Add to the mix that motherhood is shamed while abortion is held up as a Constitutional right; and divorce is considered noble and liberating while marriage is considered degrading and enslaving. Also, how women feel that nice guys are ‘boring’ and ‘creepy’ while thugs and bums are ‘hot.’

Embargo the Amerobitch!

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LastCrucible May 30, 2012 at 13:31

@JeremiahMRA

Everything you said…

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"The One" May 30, 2012 at 13:44

I agree with JeremiahMRA, except for in cases where the girl has a strong opposition to the idea of her arranged marriage.

The extradition of Julian Assange is imminent.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 13:56

Jennifer:
What you’re describing is a consequence of feminism. Feminism keeps women locked into emotional immaturity long after puberty. In any normal society, a 16 y/o is perfectly ready for motherhood. One of my great-grandmothers married at 16 and raised 12 kids—not one turned out to be a deadbeat. Another one married at 15 and raised 6 kids—same thing.

It’s normal for little girls to go through stages where they ‘hate boys’ or imagine themselves princesses. But normal women outgrow those stages. The man-haters never outgrow the first stage and the entitlement princesses never outgrow the second; that’s all thanks to feminist indoctrination. It’s just like little boys playing at being superheroes; it’s normal in a 6 y/o old boy but ridiculous in a 30 y/o man. Same with feminised women, they just look stupid.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 13:59

Price:
Off-topic, but did you hear in the Seattle media that there was another domestic-dispute related shooting in our beloved Emerald City this morning?

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Days of Broken Arrows May 30, 2012 at 14:20

Jennifer said: “Total horseshit; let’s have a society of emotional infants having infants” in response to “In reality, females should get married around age 16 to men about 20 and have their kids then.”

By “emotional infants” you mean the men that make up the majority of the age bracket that are fighting our wars right now. That goes for the young women too. So what you’re saying is this group of people in their late teens is mature enough to kill but not reproduce. I think that same something about where feminism has taken us.

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Al Thompson May 30, 2012 at 15:17

There is an early Christian writing that states that young people should get married early. The reasoning is that the sexual urge is so great that it is almost impossible for them to avoid fornication, so the writer encouraged that the young people get married early. I remember the writer saying something about “burning with passion.” I think the writer was attributed to Clement of Rome.

Nature or natural law says that young people should probably be married early because that’s really when they have the best energy to rear their offspring. And, having a family is much more enjoyable than having to go to some stupid college and university in order to learn socialism. Time is wasted in college, and I would say in high school.

Looking back, I learned very little that helped me to earn money or become skilled at anything. I learned all that OJT. And I made it a point to learn all the skills I needed to be successful. The best part of my life was raising my children, but that didn’t start until I was 35. That’s too late.

I feel like these schools are just prison camps to house the children so that they can be reprogrammed into statist stupidity.
http://verydumbgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/03/socialist-piglet-learning-centers.html

This is an interesting subject and my thinking is that young people should be starting their families by getting married (man and woman…oh the horror!), having children, and earning a living. There needs to be a major shift in the way young people are raised. They need to be raised by their parents and not the state.

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Donkey May 30, 2012 at 15:26
Leif May 30, 2012 at 15:35

I think that Marina Keegan dying is a horrible horrible tragedy, make no mistake. But part of me wonders though if she hadn’t been a very attractive young female, maybe instead a beta male, would this story even be news outside of a small locality?

I’ve simply noticed this trend over the years. Young attractive college female goes missing/car accident/suicide = whole nation mourns. Cautious responsible beta male suffers same fate = statistic.

I understand women are biologically more valuable to men, but at the same time were openly telling young men society couldn’t care less for them. And we wonder why young men aren’t growing up and contributing to this society that so despises them?

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Ode May 30, 2012 at 16:00

I’d guess that college buys young women about exactly as much time as it takes for them to complete it, because their pool of future mates tends to go through the same process (although the distorted sex ratio in college is changing this). That’s to say that she has her best shot to land a good match up to perhaps 25, whereas an average girl might have it up to 21.

The problem with college today is that it teaches a woman that she has an IQ of 115 so naturally she spends her time chasing after men who she perceives to be her “equal”, the top 15% of the men within society. Or to put it another way, a college educated woman thinks she’s better than 85% of everybody else.

Sorry honey the only thing your degree in liberal arts or communications tells me is that you have IQ above 100. Which means you’re better than the bottom 50% of society. No other conclusions can be made. Of course most women will never understand this. They will spend the rest of their bitter lives believing the reason why they couldn’t get Mr. Right is because men are afraid of a strong and smart women.

Falls over laughing!

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keyster May 30, 2012 at 16:13

I think that Marina Keegan dying is a horrible horrible tragedy, make no mistake. But part of me wonders though if she hadn’t been a very attractive young female, maybe instead a beta male, would this story even be news outside of a small locality?

No.
She was already fairly well known because of her (stridently Politically Left) – Activism at Yale. That’s why this got coverage.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5
Ode May 30, 2012 at 16:35

I think that Marina Keegan dying is a horrible horrible tragedy, make no mistake. But part of me wonders though if she hadn’t been a very attractive young female, maybe instead a beta male, would this story even be news outside of a small locality?

When Natalee Holloway an attractive 18 year old girl went missing in 2005 no expense was sparred in an attempt to find her. Even the most powerful instrument of the state was summoned into action, the armed forces.
Wikipedia says
On July 4, the Royal Netherlands Air Force deployed three F-16 aircraft equipped with infrared sensors to aid in the search, without initial result.

Wow not one but three F16 jets now that’s what I call some serious white knighting!

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 16:47

Ode;
I was visiting South America when an interesting follow-up to that story occurred. The suspect in the Holloway Case tried his tactics down in Peru, but found his way to Death Row instead. The Peruvian media reported that he was getting fan-mail and marriage proposals from women all over the Anglosphere. Contrast that with the Peruvian girls I spoke with, who were unanimous in their desire to pull the switch on the electric chair for him.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 16:49

Lara:
‘…after their 20s men really don’t improve much.’

Normal women outside our feminist culture would strongly disagree.

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Andie May 30, 2012 at 16:52

I think a really important point is being made here: women have accepted, uncritically, a male timeline for their lives. BUT WE’RE NOT MEN.

I was just about to swallow the whole “anything is possible – you go girl” bucket of bullshit when I suddenly realized that pursuing a “career” would most likely mean forgoing motherhood, either by not having children, or by paying someone else to raise the children I DID have. Working mothers are not mothers in any sense other than biological. The mother is the person who is with the child, day in and day out, doing the work of mothering.

I went to grad school when I was 29 not to get an MBA, but to get an MRS. Yes, I took a spot away from someone who might have put that to good use in an entrepreneurial sort of way. But I wanted the degree to signal to potential mates that the work of mothering and family building and home-making would not be permanent. That I WOULD work and bear some of the financial burden, but that it would happen AFTER I was done mothering.

I met my husband (we are the same age) and within six weeks we knew we were absolutely right for each other. He wanted his children raised in a loving home by an educated woman who would put her family over her career or any other ambitions.

I’m sad that we only have three children. I wish I had started earlier. I would have loved to have four or five. But three is still wonderful.

My youngest is now 3, and I have recently been accepted into a PhD program. I will be ready for work in three years, with my youngest in school full time.

I would say that 25 is exactly the age women should be building their families. Going to college is worthwhile because an educated woman is more likely to raise educated children, and because once the intense work of mothering is over, that college degree will come in handy when applying for jobs.

But, as long as women retain the right to discard their husbands at will yet still keep a good chunk of his money, the opportunity for gross exploitation exists, and as long as it exists, you can bet a big pool of women will take it.

That’s a tough problem to solve.

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Justinian May 30, 2012 at 17:01

I went to grad school when I was 29 not to get an MBA, but to get an MRS.

That reminds me.

The women who take on huge amounts of student debt for their degree and then want to be stay at home moms.

The poor sucker she marries has to somehow manage both his student loan debt, a house mortgage, and HER student loan debt.

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 17:15

Just about every traditional culture (this includes the US 50 years ago), had families terrified if their daughter was still unmarried by 27 or so.

Outright terror.

And rightfully so…. her fertility has already begun to decline, and half of her beauty years are gone…. any man marrying her is getting just 7 more beauty years from that point.

And by 30, very little of value is still remaining..

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 17:23

The other problem is that the quality of a woman’s life after the age of 50 will almost directly correlate to how many children she had (thus governing how many grandchildren she has, and how many people are available to keep her in their home when she is old).

Yet, the world over, birth rates are dropping. Across all cultures…

The misinformation is huge and pervasive…

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 17:28

The thing is, a man actually *can* keep improving himself and hold out until age 40 or even 45, fully expecting to get better and better women….

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 17:31

The problem with college today is that it teaches a woman that she has an IQ of 115 so naturally she spends her time chasing after men who she perceives to be her “equal”, the top 15% of the men within society.

Of course. This phenomenon is even more exacerbated with black women.

They get double-AA, and then get a public sector job that pays them $150K for doing nothing (at best) or doing active social harm at worst.

Thus, they think they are better than black men, when in reality, a lot of these $150K public sector black women would make no more than $30K in a meritocratic private sector without the AA boost….

This leads to most of them not marrying….

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 17:47

WFPrice,

By 35, most men are faced with the same problem that women run into in their late 20s: the pool of potential mates is aging and rapidly shrinking.

Only if reproduction is the goal, and that too only because the women he would date are aging.

I can tell you that egg banks don’t accept women over 27, but men are accepted for sperm donation until 39…

Plus, if reproduction is not the goal, a man who gets older can have a relationship with a woman 10-15 years younger, with ease.

Jennifer is clinging to just one sentence and over-interpreting that into something that was not said, but is merely what she wishes to be true…

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jaego May 30, 2012 at 18:19

Also Black women aren’t very attractive. The few Black Men who have paralleled them career-wise will go for the White Women who have been socially engineered to prefer them to White Men. Fewer Black Men can get thru college due to their elevated Testosterone levels which make long term planning very difficult and create a culture of bling, crime, and bullshit.

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Rmaxd May 30, 2012 at 18:47

Ah gimme a break Price …

These women arent some youthful wishful thinking …

What Mira is expressing, her not needing a man, that precisely because she doesnt need a man she can get everything she wants, well into her 50′s …

She’s accepted her feminist brainwashed idiocy & tried to turn it into a social norm

Her fantasy entails her getting an education, & competing in cut-throat environments designed for men … which require a male intolerance for anything not rational or logic

All the while her fantasy involves a child as an accessory & strong alpha thug, who’ll rescue her instead of pumping & dumping her to kingdom come …

Her vagina also gives her magical powers to screw over sex hungry beta’s without game, as a backup plan, if the jamaican thugs from her sex tourism never get round to playing captain save-a hoe, when she hits 30 …

Beta’s, a deranged feminists insurance policy, for when her vagina no longer cashes cheques she cant write …

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Anonymous May 30, 2012 at 18:50

@TFH: “The thing is, a man actually *can* keep improving himself and hold out until age 40 or even 45, fully expecting to get better and better women….”

That was my experience. Dating kept getting better and better and easier and easier to better-looking women who were generally between 25-30, no matter how much older I got. I knew that I to raise children, which I did. I married at 40 to a 30 yr. old blonde-haired, blue-eyed former model and have two beautiful, wonderful children. Well, they’re teenagers now, so some of the wonder has worn thin.

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Paradoxotaur May 30, 2012 at 18:58

@Leif: “I understand women are biologically more valuable to men”

I’m quite surprised that this meme keeps getting repeated on MRM blogs. Human biological value extends beyond the ability to squirt progeny into the biome, like some insect or squid. The value of men extends beyond popping a load into a fertile receptacle. It men’s capacity to produce more than they need to survive/inseminate and the social structure that promotes and harnesses that hyper-productivity that drives cultures and civilizations and elevates humans above bonobos.

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Rmaxd May 30, 2012 at 19:04

Btw as for these idiotic women, trying to say women should go their own way …

MGTOW is a political & last resort, a response to a society which systematically imprisons & hunts down men, for daring to raise a family, or expressing their sexuality & race, ie hetro & straight & white

A woman who cant make it in a society, which gives them unprecedent privilege & cash prizes just for having a vagina, is a failure of ridiculous proportions …

If men had the exact same privilege women have now … lets just we wouldnt have a black president in the white house … & we’d be sending mexicans to china …

As it is, men have NEVER had the privilege women have now …

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MKP May 30, 2012 at 19:07

“Also Black women aren’t very attractive. The few Black Men who have paralleled them career-wise will go for the White Women who have been socially engineered to prefer them to White Men. Fewer Black Men can get thru college due to their elevated Testosterone levels which make long term planning very difficult and create a culture of bling, crime, and bullshit.”

From out of fucking nowhere.

Black women are inferior … black men have high testosterone, but don’t have college intelligence … no white woman could find a black man attractive except for “social engineering” …

None of which had jack shit to do with anything in the post. Just pulled out of thin air, in case anyone was wondering about your thoughts on black men.

The projection is not even hard to diagnose.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 19:08

The trolls are out in full force.

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Raj May 30, 2012 at 19:19

Off topic for all those who think asian women are any better:

Crazy Malaysian woman beats her own baby half to death!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WxvIPuhPlU0

https://www.change.org/petitions/high-court-magistrates-court-petaling-jaya-extend-this-vile-womans-sentence-never-return-the-baby-to-her-mother?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=share_page_mobile
Quote:
“There was circulated speculation that the mother had been raped before committing the atrocities but the police stated this was false and attributed her actions to simple “frustration.””

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3
TFH May 30, 2012 at 19:34

Off topic for all those who think asian women are any better:

Hear, hear…

The *appear* better only because :

1) They come from an environment where the state doesn’t transfer the costs of womens’ behavior away from them.
2) They are still in a world where their fathers, uncles, grandfathers are married to their mothers, aunts, grandmothers, etc. No one wants to be the first divorced woman, but when the first few do it, the others get exponentially bolder.

The divorce rate of a society depends on one thing only :

Will the woman’s living standard go down in the early years after divorce?

If yes via natural order, that society has a low divorce rate.
If no via rigged laws, that society has a high divorce rate.

Period. All other rationalizations and analysis are mere smokescreen. The woman’s decision is governed by this and this alone.

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Huck Finn May 30, 2012 at 19:34

“Most men start to figure things out in regard to women at around the age of 27 or 28. Before that age, they are often dumbfounded at the wily ways of women and have their vagina-goggles firmly on. It goes back to Schopenhauer where he says that men don’t really catch up to women’s maturity until they are 28, while women mature at about the age of 18.”

I agree with that the above observation. By their late 20s most men have either personally experienced crazy now ex-girlfriends, ex-wives in divorce hell, baby mamas, false rape claims, or know of other men who have. By @28, men have been out of school a few years and associated with other older men in more real-world work environments.

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Ethical May 30, 2012 at 19:45

Great post. Encouraging women to feel they can “have it all”, encouraging them to put their careers first, and not with the goal of eventually being the provider for a family but out of pure self-gratification, is creating toxic “rush to get pregnant in middle age” and “the world owes me happiness” wives. I must admit I hadn’t thought about all the issues that came up in the discussion. Some will be very helpful for me at least in detecting such women’s mindsets that at first might seem harmless but in light of this discussion are harbingers of unpleasant things to come.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 19:49

THF&Raj:
You two know as little about Asian women as Jaego and Rmaxd know about black women: combined it wouldn’t cover the head of a pin.

Asian culture is different because it’s based on a gender polarity. Yin/Yang. Every schoolboy knows this. In other words, unlike feminist culture, they are taught that men are intrinsically valuable and therefore, don’t marry with divorce an object. Divorce and abortion are legal in China; and Chinese women want to escape it so that they can raise families.

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MRA May 30, 2012 at 20:18

OT
I think the MRM could use very well the material done by the anti abortion group LiveAction, is a video tape evidence of sex selective abortion…..on girls, the poors girls feminists say to protect so mush, on jezebel and other feminists sites have tried to defend Planed Parenthood saying is edited material and that “male privilege” force these women to seek boys instead of girls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U2H3ZDnBtuw

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Nosiop May 30, 2012 at 20:27

At 25, the brilliant hopefulness of youth gives way to the overpowering, omnipresent, spine-crushing knowledge that we are not immortal. Around the age of 25, we perfect our ability to fear, and the idea of finality and anonymity becomes terrifying. As the endless possibilities of youth disappear, we attach meaning to anything that can reassure us that our time here has not been wasted. Most people find it a staid, common tradition – they start a family. With dependent mate and offspring, the frightened soul again becomes convinced of it’s importance, and settles firmly down like a toad in mud. It’s fear that makes good wives, husbands and citizens. Waiting to marry is a refusal to let cowardice dictate the structure of my life, no matter how narrow the gene pool becomes.

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Migu May 30, 2012 at 20:48

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Migu May 30, 2012 at 20:51

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 20:52

Eric,

You two know as little about Asian women as Jaego and Rmaxd know about black women:

Never mind that both of us ARE Asian….

Eric, as usual, has a knack of being exactly wrong about just about everything….

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 8
Eric May 30, 2012 at 20:54

Migu,
Not mention that he claimed to be living in the UK a few posts ago and refers to Obama as his president here. You’re right, though, the constant shaming language, swiftboating MRAs, calls for violence and playing the victim card—probably not only a troll but an obese feminist posing as a male besides.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 20:56

TFH;
Really? What part of Asia are you living in right now?

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Nosiop May 30, 2012 at 21:05

THF,
A woman’s quality of life after menopause is determined by socioeconomic status and genetics, and nothing else. This is also true of men. If you stick to observation alone, you’ll see that the poorest and sickest women of the world are the ones with the most children. Adjusted for lifestyle averages, that holds true in the United States as well.

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TFH May 30, 2012 at 21:06

Eric,

Asian culture is different because it’s based on a gender polarity. Yin/Yang.

Just like the West has Biblical rules that women should follow…… until politicians buy womens’ votes with laws that enable women to get out of these obligations…

Oh…. that could never happen in Asia..

In other words, unlike feminist culture, they are taught that men are intrinsically valuable and therefore, don’t marry with divorce an object.

Apparently, you think the West was a ‘feminist culture’ for centuries and centuries, and that it was never traditional like Asia, or that Asia could never get feminized in the same way as the West.

You still need to learn the very basics about how and why things become feminist…

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Ode May 30, 2012 at 21:13

Lara says
‘…after their 20s men really don’t improve much.’

Thanks to being unencumbered with a woman, my net worth increases steadily with every pay check. I’m happy with the direction my life is moving , UP.

Lara, you and all the women out there, your definition of men’s “improvement” is a man’s utility value to a woman. Well you’re absolutely correct I haven’t improved at all. In fact I’m getting worse and happy about it too.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 21:15

THF:
‘That could never happen in Asia.’

Yes, we’ve all seen how predominently Christian countries in Asia like the Phillippines have become feminist…

‘Apparently you think the West was a feminist culture for ages and ages…’

No, and I’ve never said that it was. The gender polarity still exists in parts of Europe where the gender polarity wasn’t broken like it was in the Anglosphere and Scandanavia. Southern and Eastern Europe still have a polarity which came its cultural history.

‘You still think… that Asia could never get feminised like the West.’

I doubt seriously that it ever could.

‘You need to learn the very basics about how and why cultures get feminised.’

I know that the most basic thing is having a culture that’s inherently receptive to it. Asia doesn’t have that kind of culture.

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Nosiop May 30, 2012 at 21:22

In addition, the age discrepancy between accepted female and male single-hood has no biological basis. After the age of 35, a woman’s body can no longer cope with the stress of pregnancy and birth easily. Viable eggs are pretty low. At the same age for men, sperm counts are declining, and the remaining ones are more likely to have genetic mistakes. With the exception of the famous Down’s, a pregnant woman is more likely to suffer bad outcomes herself than is child. On the other hand, the child bears the harmful effects when men over 35 father children.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 16
TFH May 30, 2012 at 21:23

Eric,

Asia doesn’t have that kind of culture.

Laws don’t care about culture…

Divorce laws in India, Japan, South Korea, etc. are moving to mimic the West. Women in Japan are promiscuous and have many one night stands.

Again, the West was governed by the Bible. That didn’t stop the laws from becoming feminist. Dalrock exposes this in great detail..

If Asia is less feminist today, it is for the same reason the US was less feminist in 1950…… they are merely not as far along the path, because they have not been democracies for as long as Anglosphere countries..

You are arguing with actual Asian people, who have parents, grandparents, etc. who are Asian….

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 21:32

TFH;
The laws are irrelevant to a culture. They even had a female president in Pakistan! Are you going to argue that Pakistan is a feminist culture? They’ve female presidents in the Phillippines and the Ukraine—see how far feminist cultures advanced there? Not at all.

‘Japanese women are promiscuous’

Really? Compared to whom? Do you really believe that there are nearly as many Japanese sluts as there are American ones?

‘You are arguing with Asian people.’

You still haven’t said what part of Asia you are living in.

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Huck Finn May 30, 2012 at 21:47

“Lara, you and all the women out there, your definition of men’s “improvement” is a man’s utility value to a woman.”

That is my observation too. A woman’s version and motivation to encourage a man’s “personal growth” is to see the man embrace more chivalry (modern or traditional) and to grow in any way that benefits the woman. Again, she wants it to selfishly revolve around her. Obviously, we cannot expect a woman to support a man to self-actualize if that means his inner fire moves him to decrease his value to her. I think men are better (less selfish) at encouraging people to grow for their own sake. Men know and practice better than woman helping others to learn how to fish and thrive on their own even when it sometimes means a parting or lessening of his relationship with the other person.

Here comes wacky Jennifer to claim women are more altruistic than men 3-2-1…

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Raj May 30, 2012 at 22:07

TFH,
Women in Asia behave better only because its in their own best interest in that environment, not because they are somehow more moral or ethical.

Men over there are more strict with their women, simple as that.

Laws, culture and social norms are just a product of that male strictness. You put a misbehaving western woman over there and she will learn to behave before long, and vice versa.

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Samizdat Jones May 30, 2012 at 22:09

Whaaaa? 108 comments and not a single mention of “Christmas Cake” that wonderful Japanese expression that serves as a warning to girls there to find the man they are going to marry before the age of 25 or find out they’ve lost most of their value….

See link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChristmasCake

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 22:21

Raj:
I agree with that to a point; but women still have to value that male strictness in some way. For example, I don’t think Asian women who marry American men do so because the Asian men are too strict; I think it’s because they see the same qualities of strictness in the Americans whom they marry. That’s a product of their education.

A misbehaving American woman would be clamped down upon in Asia, but it wouldn’t change her hatred for men. A normal Asia can come here to our feminist culture and reject its values, for the same reasons.

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evilwhitemalempire May 30, 2012 at 22:41

men age like wine

women like milk

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Raj May 30, 2012 at 22:44

Sorry, previous post was for Eric not TFH.

Eric,
It does not matter if they value male authority or not. Authority does not ask for permission. If you ask for permission, its not authority anymore.

Asian women who marry Western men do so because its beneficial to them overall, lack of strictness is usually one of those benefits. Physical attraction and financial resources are other common benefits.

Asian women who hate their men are just as common as in the west but they can’t do anything about it over there. The problem in West is the enabling.

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Eric May 30, 2012 at 23:14

Raj:
It’s OK, I could tell by the text you were addressing me LOL.

I agree that authority doesn’t need to ask for permission; but when I brought up the earlier point about gender polarity (yin/yang in Asian culture); the authority of the male is implicit. In the West, we have that same polarity (Paternal State/Maternal Church). I give the example of the Western model because it illustrates most clearly that the masculine principle in any of these philosophical schemas carries with it an intrinsic authority.

I can’t agree, though, that a hatred for men exists in Asia on nearly the same scale as here, with or without enabling. In fact, misandry is not just enabled in America, it’s actively encouraged. While some Asian women might hate Asian men because of their strictness, I don’t believe that they hate men fundamentally—just because they are men and they exist—which is how American women hate men. If Asian women had that deep hatred of men, they wouldn’t expat at all.

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Matt Strictland May 30, 2012 at 23:33

Lara asked why young men don’t get married. Ignoring every point on this blog why men shouldn’t get married ever, there is a solid financial reason too .

Young men cannot attract a young mate since they don;t have the financial resources they need. A 25 year old man probably has a ton of education debt and no resources . And yes being Alpha enough or pretending to be can make up for it, most men don’t have those skills. Its getting better yes but its not there Because of that few young men get laid much less married. The economy is 3rrd world now, not 1958′s

Also re: the biological clock issue, Lara you, maybe women do hear about the clock ticking but y’all have one hell of a rationalization hamster. Darned few of you actually cognate that lowered fertility with age is going to happen to you. Its always some other woman and it won’t happen to me and thats just not the case. Unless you have your kids young, say before 30 or so you may not be able to have any. Ever.

You cannot cheat mother nature and while yes expensive humiliating treatments might add a few years for most women a lot of suffering, cost and hardship could be stopped by simply womaning up, getting married young and getting knocked up.

Also t speaking of the hamster , the little critter needs to understand that, yes you are less desirable to men as you age.

If you want a decent family life you have to choose it and sacrifice.

You have to get married to a decent guy, treat him with respect, woman up and stay with him in sickness and in health, to love, honor and obey no matter how stultifying it seems.

You must do this in your twenties or earlier and before you have been rode hard and put away wet by every cock in town

If you do this your guy will not only man up for you many men, even the justified cynics here would fight and even die for you. Also if you work at it and do your part (and he his) ,most men won’t notice the years and instead of spending your old age with cats you’ll have your man and your kids and grandkids with you . And yeah he may not be perfect but he’ll love you and when he is in love, 20 or 60 you are the most beautiful woman on Earth.

If you do not do this and you wanted a happy family life and most women do plain and simple, your life will be crud.

However few women are willing to sacrifice anything and that hamster and countless charlatans will tell them they can have it all. It B.S. of course but few have eyes to see or ears to here.

And because those women won’t learn and insist on being harlots, any man not entirely stupid or full of white knight B.S. will pass them by.

In fact if it came to a river rescue of either a modern woman or a kitten in a bad, you’d be better off rescuing the kitten.

Clean a kitten up, dry it off and feed it and kitty will be grateful , rub around your legs, purr and keep mice and vermin from your home.

You’ll be lucky of the entitlement princess thanks you and doesn’t sue you.

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Raj May 31, 2012 at 00:04

Eric,

I think western women primarily disrespect their men more than hate them, but this is not an indication of their own lack of morality but due to the surplus of options and resources they have, ironically given to them by men but through the middleman (Government).

In Asia, what little options and resources women get, are given directly by men. No middleman, unlike forced taxation and socialism in west. Thus there is more fear and respect. But government (business) is getting bigger in Asia recently so things are changing there.

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Hf May 31, 2012 at 00:34

WTF are Lara and FFP babblin on about?

Men, we have 75 years of feckin 25yr old women. This fact, well, it burns older-than-25 women to the core.

I apologize if this ends up being a re-post but the interwebs are acting funky…

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Emma the Emo May 31, 2012 at 03:48

“You can do anything you want” is definitely a damaging message. But how about “You can always do something”? I find this important to remember when things get tough, that nothing is ever completely hopeless. Even if it is, it’s bad for your health to aknowledge it.

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Lara May 31, 2012 at 04:28

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W.F. Price May 31, 2012 at 04:38

“You can do anything you want” is definitely a damaging message. But how about “You can always do something”? I find this important to remember when things get tough, that nothing is ever completely hopeless. Even if it is, it’s bad for your health to aknowledge it.

-Emma

Well, I prefer “you can do anything you are able to do.” That’s plenty of stuff, usually. Way more stuff than we will ever do.

Like, I could build a koi pond in the yard. I could learn another language, join a choir, learn to fly planes, wash my car, go vegan, etc. The choices are infinite (the time is not), but I certainly can’t do “whatever I want.” That’s just stupid.

Emma the Emo May 31, 2012 at 05:41

Oh yes, it is stupid, and you must know your limitations. That is the main theme of the post as I understood it – unrealistic expectations of how big your options are. But I felt it was important to not lose optimism when it’s truly needed. Unless your plan is to sacrifice your life for some cause, it’s better to die while utterly convinced you will make it (but it’s off topic, I know…)
I’m just saying all that because my future is uncertain, life long perfectionism (ended 2 years ago) fucked up my studies slightly and whether it’s my fault or not is not gonna matter to potential employees :D

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Towgunner May 31, 2012 at 06:06

Couple thoughts on some previous posts: 1. the meme of “having it all’ and 2. certain people thinking they’re superior to another.

On “having it all”…what in the wild world does this mean? How disconnected from reality can women and feminism be? For people who are encouraged to act even more narcissistic and egotistical then they already naturally are, know this – we’re never fully satisfied. The truth is nothing close to “having it all”…Its you’ll never have enough. Words fail me in the inherent childish and irresponsible nature behind the concept of “having it all”…alas if that is a banner of feminism than it stands that feminism is childish and irresponsible –of course, we know that. What is truth – we live in a world of finite resources. Yes economies of scale and innovations have presented the illusions of excessive resources…and an even more powerful force behind the illusion is our very sick monetary system and policies. For instance, the pegged RMB to US dollar, which keeps a plethora of useless consumer imports cheap. Note: the things that matter are going up in price such as food, which matters not to our “superior” heroines who thinks getting a french connection accessory or bag marked-down is a worthy accomplishment. Good Lord get real! Having it all runs contrary to the essence of what made America a powerful country. It epitomizes all that is loathsome and rejectable about the human species but I will grant full ownership of this institution to women.

On people thinking they’re superior to others. Why is it that women get a pass on this front? You realize the nazis made the same exact argument? If you ask me the very fact that women openly project this attitude and are encouraged to do so is a smack-face admission of the total failure of the stated goal of feminism to promote equality. How is it possible to claim that we’re all completely equal if today in 2012 we have one class of people, openly, saying they’re superior over another. This has happened before…to put proper context on it, all you have to do is replace men with say…Blacks, Jews, Irish, Chinese, Catholics, Slavs…haven’t we seen this show before? So, now, all of a sudden, women are magically superior to men and they accomplished this under the pretenses of granting everyone full equality? How sick can you be? Worse, you women call this progress? This is regression. To the women who come here – I can’t think of a more personal insult than to be labeled as inferior. If women were students of history they’d know just of profound this is. Women, you say you’re so darn smart how come you don’t see that the human experience is a story of certain people falsely claiming superiority over others? If you want to find the root of human angst, indeed, the root of evil itself, look no further than this. Now, feminism has developed a warped worldview which says that women’s maternal instinct is “oppressive” and the solution is to become the very thing that they hate so much – more masculine. First, this is a closed pattern of thought representative of the narrow and spiteful nature of feminism. If masculinity is the problem, you offer no solutions and, worse, have resorted to outright mimicking of other peoples behavior. Mimicking is necessary to a degree, men call it emulation, but let’s call it what it is with women, lock-step imitation, which is weakness par excellance. And how are people better off if they deny their own selves? What I’m ultimately getting at here is this – men and women are different and it was feminism that labeled these differences as “oppressive”. Is it really that horrible to acknowledge that males tend to fire trucks, army men and sports whereas females tend to dolls, doll houses and shopping? What is worse, letting people basically live as they may or having some cretin masquerading as an “expert” literally take the fire truck away from the boy give it to the girl and give the boy the doll and then say a minute later that you must always be yourself? What The F&*K!
To women – on your supposed claim of superiority, I’d like to do a little experiment. Take a moment and look around you. Just stop and use your eyes to look around you, look out the window if one is close. Take inventory of all the things you see around you. My question – how many women were responsible for all this? How many?
Still claiming superiority?
Yeah, my thoughts and the millions of other men exactly…time to wake up from your little dream. One last thing, at no time in human history has women “ascended” so quickly, ~ a decade, and though that might be a source of confidence, it’s actually evidence of an outlier event…a black swan if you will. When our huge and immoral state implodes, and it will just look at Europe, so will your “ascension”. If you’re smart I’d start telling your gf’s to start acting like real women, because as illustrated by the men here at The Spearhead, we’re not going to be very keen on helping out people who think they are better than us. Particularly people who have nothing to substantiate that claim other than your concave shoulders, buckled knees, squeaky voices and emotionally dominated personalities and minds.

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ahamkara May 31, 2012 at 07:32

I got married at 28, to someone who wasn’t the woman of my dreams but who I thought would make a good wife. She didn’t, as it turns out, but I got two great kids out of it and I don’t regret that decision, even though I have had to fight like hell to be a proper father to them. My mother STILL tells me how “young” I am (I’m 38 now) and pretends like the world is my oyster. I still have a lot that I want to accomplish, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve chosen a path and closed a lot of doors and there is nothing wrong with that. It is okay to grow up for fuck’s sake.

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Peter South May 31, 2012 at 09:27

“Whaaaa? 108 comments and not a single mention of “Christmas Cake” that wonderful Japanese expression that serves as a warning to girls there to find the man they are going to marry before the age of 25 or find out they’ve lost most of their value….

See link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChristmasCake

From same link…

This is on its way to being a Discredited Trope: the latest Japanese census data shows that more and more people are marrying older, with most people under 25 remaining unmarried. Many teens and young adults have never heard of the concept and many that have think it’s old-fashioned. Having a character believing in the Christmas Cake concept may mark them as being likewise old-fashioned.

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26-year-old woman May 31, 2012 at 09:56

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continent May 31, 2012 at 09:56

Picture of military moms in uniform breastfeeding babies stir controversy (Drudge Report)
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/military-moms-breastfeeding-uniform-stir-controversey-214500503.html

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meistergedanken May 31, 2012 at 10:08

@ “26-year-old woman”

All that you say might be true, but I notice you naturally left out the elephant in the room: you said nothing about having children.

You indeed might be quite fuckable, but as fertile? No. Or at least, the clock is starting to run down. Methinks your “wonderful guy” [if he is the marrying kind at all] will care less and less about you being in protests, traveling and nursing, and more and more about starting a family. It doesn’t seem like that would fit in with your exciting self-involved life.

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Peter South May 31, 2012 at 10:09

Well then fuck you. I’m 26 and I got miles to go.

haha that’s how it starts.

Drinking the milk and buying the cow two different things.

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W.F. Price May 31, 2012 at 10:18

I’m dating a wonderful guy who mysteriously didn’t dump me on my 25th birthday.

-26-year-old woman

If you end up happily married to him you will have made my point for me.

Hope it works out!

26-year-old woman May 31, 2012 at 10:23

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Peter South May 31, 2012 at 10:27

If you don’t want kids or marriage then why bother?

Who says your boyfriend will marry you now?

Besides you’re obviously a mental disaster and he should not under any circumstances do that or he will end up chewed up, spat out and living in a cardboard box.

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Charles Martel May 31, 2012 at 10:31

TFH
Never mind that both of us ARE Asian….
Eric, as usual, has a knack of being exactly wrong about just about everything….

LOL. I was waiting for you to point that out, TFH. What a classic foot in mouth job. I think Eric is Boxer’s little brother.

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26-year-old woman May 31, 2012 at 10:31

So, uh, now there are people saying it’ll prove you right if I get married AND if I don’t get married?

It doesn even matter. My only point is whether I get married or not, I can still do other stuff. Whether I have any value to men as a vagina or not, I’ll still have value to men and women as a healthcare worker and a person.

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26-year-old woman May 31, 2012 at 10:37

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Senior Manchild May 31, 2012 at 10:49

@Nosiop May 30, 2012 at 21:05

¨THF,
A woman’s quality of life after menopause is determined by socioeconomic status and genetics, and nothing else. This is also true of men. If you stick to observation alone, you’ll see that the poorest and sickest women of the world are the ones with the most children. Adjusted for lifestyle averages, that holds true in the United States as well.¨

Not so fast there Nosiop,

http://www.smh.com.au/national/womens-long-life-linked-to-children–lots-of-them-20120412-1wwwl.html

¨Compared with women who had no children, those with two had a 17 per cent decreased risk of death. For women with three children there was a 20 per cent decreased risk, and this pattern largely continued with additional children.

Associate Professor Simons said it was not known exactly why childbirth might protect women in later life, but similar findings were seen overseas.

The answer could be hormonal but behaviour could play a part as well. His study also indicated children protected men from earlier death, but the results were not definitive.

More children was linked to increased deaths from heart disease, but this was accompanied by a decrease in deaths from cancer and respiratory disease, the authors wrote in the journal Age and Ageing.¨

Children are very much a plus for women the world over and they are constantly trying to co-opt men to provide for their( the woman´s) children; be that individual men or the collective irregardless of who the father is. That many women have forgotten this does not make it false, but even individual women´s well-being is dependent on the society producing many children the future looks rather grim for them.

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Charles Martel May 31, 2012 at 10:50

26-year-old-woman
It doesn even matter. My only point is whether I get married or not, I can still do other stuff. Whether I have any value to men as a vagina or not, I’ll still have value to men and women as a healthcare worker and a person.

True. But it’s a moot point if you don’t have kids. You were put on this Earth to be a mother. It’s fine if you don’t. Your choice, no problem. But you will live long enough to be filled with agonizing regret.

Some time ago I spent a pleasant evening with a 45 year old woman I hadn’t seen for about 20 years. I bought her an expensive dinner and a bottle of champagne. She told me it was a long time since any man had done that. Never married due to a serious accident and her own poor decisions, she told me her one regret was that she hadn’t had my children. She was trying to manipulate me but she meant it nevertheless.

You’ve been sold a bill of goods. You just haven’t figured it out yet. But you will.

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W.F. Price May 31, 2012 at 10:57

…I AM a mental disaster if I go on a blog using the death of a young woman to argue that women’s vaginas/therefore-entire-selves become useles at 25, and expect people to listen.

What IS wrong with me.

[...]

So, uh, now there are people saying it’ll prove you right if I get married AND if I don’t get married?

It doesn even matter. My only point is whether I get married or not, I can still do other stuff. Whether I have any value to men as a vagina or not, I’ll still have value to men and women as a healthcare worker and a person.

-26-year-old woman

Used her death? Nah, I just used her article, which was widely circulated online. Her death had nothing to do with it other than to publicize the article, which happened to reinforce a point I already wanted to make. In order to use someone’s death to make that point it would have to be a suicide or something like that.

Of course you don’t have to get married. A minority of women choose not to and are quite content with that choice. My sister has never been married, has no children, and is getting to the age where it’s probably going to stay that way. Because it’s voluntary on her part, it isn’t an issue for her. But women who *do* want to get married and raise a family should keep in mind that it doesn’t get any easier to meet a mate when you get up to 30+, no matter what certain deluded types may tell you.

In fact, you can take it from me. It was so hard to find anyone after my divorce that I had to purchase a bride from rural Cambodia. Cost me a water buffalo, but it was worth it.

Opus May 31, 2012 at 11:25

It’s a funny thing – women don’t want children, yet:

1. Fertility clinics for those who have left it too late are booming. The denial in the desparation of some forty year old singletons would be comic if I did not have a heart of stone. Not of course that children won’t cause you even bigger miseries, but we are natures playthings, either way.

2. Try – just try – to persuade a mother that – on Divorce – she should relinquish custody of her child.

But there is no telling them, because if you do you are just an evil male and what would you understand about a woman for it is her body and she has the right to choose and all you want to do is to chain her barefoot to the kitchen yada yada yada yada.

All the essay is saying – as I take it – is that babies do not always materialise like mana from heaven at the right moment – a moment which is always going to be closer to menopause than is wise. Nature knows nothing about your career prospects and the fun you might otherwise be having. Humans are just one species and 99% of those that ever existed are extinct. Nature doesn’t care.

Schopenahauer said women could never remember the past or perceive the future. He seems to be right.

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Ronin May 31, 2012 at 11:28

@ Charles Martel

The young lady is 3 years off for this skit but none the less still relevant and hilarious. Please enjoy and try not to spit up food or beverage on your screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gfxjAaZg0

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Matt Strictland May 31, 2012 at 11:28

26-year-old woman, no one here is telling you that your happiness depends on getting married and doing the wife and momma thing.

What they are saying is there is a time limit (early 30′s at the very latest for best results) and expectations if you like most (not all, most) want this.

Most important you choose otherwise and are disappointed because karrierefrau did not work out for you, don’t complain. Actions have consequences.

And while this may go a bit against the usual tone, if you are one of those few women for who career, art and solitude are best, happiness to you.

Odds are though you aren’t and so like the commercial says, you can’t cheat mother nature so marry and do right by a good man before you are too old for good results

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Towgunner May 31, 2012 at 11:38

@ 26 year old women:

I just don’t a f&*k what you do. I’ll fill in the blanks with what you left out. You watch a lot of tv, more than most men and definitely more than the men here at The Spearhead. If you read its books limited to crap like the girl who kicked the dragons nest etc. Your favorite shows are grays anatomy and nurse jackie both provide you with your “independent” identity. Also, its the tv telling you that all these things that you ‘couldn’t imagine yourself doing’ has value. Without these “powerful” female tv role models (who are fake mind you) you’d be like every other woman, an empty vessel. You’re typical of the women trolls who come here, boasting as if your CV was tattooed on your face. I’m not impressed, nor is anyone else. I see you as a shallow, egotistic automaton that can’t have a truly original thought without it being pre-vetted by pop culture. Your value system as implied by your previous post is about as warm and appealing as a cow bile left to fester in the tropical sun for a month. It’s about as consistent as that too. I can tell already that you value people on their f*ckability. Please don’t bother denying that fact. Don’t you see people in the hospital all the time that are not up to your f8ckability standards? What of them? Are they just beneath you? You know people come in all shapes and sizes – they can’t control some arbitrary superficial perception of fu*ckability. Why can’t you look at all people in an equal light and judge them by their character? Of course, you’ll say you believe in all these things, but you don’t. Your attempt at nursing is pathetic. What kind of a warped savior-complex do you have? No one…No one wants or needs you to save them. You need to really understand how twisted and egocentric that attitude is. I can see you fawning to your mother on the phone, “I just want to help people, I want to make the world a better place” translation – I think so highly of myself I’m going to give the world the best present ever – me. I’m also going to assume that your socio-economic background is from middle class to upper middle class. Only people who have never experienced true hardship talk the way you do and share your value system or “worldview”. Who’s paying for your nursing school? My guess either your upper class family or me and everyone else here via student loans.

Married or not, I don’t care. I’d rather you not multiple, as your genetic strain should have been removed from the gene pool a long time ago.

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Eric May 31, 2012 at 11:52

26y/o old woman;

‘You are missing out…’

That’s why I am glad Price lets women post here. We should all be reminded of why we turned our backs on feminised women occasionally. Nothing does the job better than letting you grrrls open your mouths.

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Peter South May 31, 2012 at 12:38

Yeah I know a number of women who in their late thirties and early forties are trying to find a guy to marry them so they can have children.

These women are still relatively attractive but no go. They can get boyfriends all day long but no husband.

Don’t they realize it’s probably too late? I don’t think they get it.

I could marry one of them but why would I?

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Peter South May 31, 2012 at 12:43

What is missing in this discussion with people like the alleged “26-year-old woman” is the affirmative action and welfare state that allows women to be comfortably single.

When the global economic crisis finally wipes that out the issue will become a little more transparent – and hilarious.

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Uncle Elmer May 31, 2012 at 13:11

R.Don Steele, in his classic “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35″ , strongly advises one to avoid 27-year old women.

And I’ve found that the most venomous comments towards older men come from females in this age group, I suppose because they are beginning to realize that those old lizards are fast becoming the only option left for them.

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Uncle Elmer May 31, 2012 at 13:14

My great-aunt Isabelle never married. My dad said he thought men found her intimidating, and “haughty”.

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Towgunner May 31, 2012 at 13:19

@ Peter South

Exactly! And it will wipe out 26 year olds “tude”, which is as big as the global credit bubble.

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Towgunner May 31, 2012 at 13:21

@ Uncle Elmer

“And I’ve found that the most venomous comments towards older men come from females in this age group”

Of course, the good stock is taken early. They’re the leftovers. That’s why they need oprah and nurse jackie to make them feel good like a heroin addict.

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W.F. Price May 31, 2012 at 13:22

R.Don Steele, in his classic “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35″ , strongly advises one to avoid 27-year old women.

And I’ve found that the most venomous comments towards older men come from females in this age group, I suppose because they are beginning to realize that those old lizards are fast becoming the only option left for them.

-Uncle Elmer

Interesting that he says that. I’ve found that they do tend to go through a kind of ruthless phase at that age. Women initiate more divorces at age 27 than any other age, and from my observations that’s when they seem to reach a sort of hypergamy peak. Women in their late 20s are truly energized and on a mission, perhaps because in a natural environment they would be caring for multiple young children at that age, and need to be more aggressive and assertive. They tend to mellow a bit after 30, and before 25 are much sweeter and more laid back.

Opus May 31, 2012 at 13:36

@W.F.

Interesting you should put it that way.

Consider 26 year old woman’s first comment- she has:

Been more places
Saved more lives
Been more published
Been on more demos
Lifted more weights
and so on.

I felt exhausted just reading it. Is it not a lot of ‘sound and fury signifying nothing’? – not that I object to her doing it – but it seems to be all over the place (multi-tasking) with out rhyme nor reason nor purpose. What on earth is she trying to prove?

oh – and she is good at sex now too – well that at least is a relief. – and she reached 26 without being dumped by her bf (do women ever get dumped?) – sounds as if she is a wee bit desparate to me.

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William May 31, 2012 at 13:49

Isn’t it part of being young to believe that the world is yours for the taking and part of reaching maturity understanding that this isn’t so and accepting the same? How sad.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Andrew S. May 31, 2012 at 13:53

There will be a severe depression in this country very soon. And when it hits it will be entertaining to watch all of these “empowered women” try and survive. They like to joke, joke, snark, snark about this, because I mean HR jobs and Gender studies have, and always will be around?

There will always be more than enough to money to fund studies that show how well women are doing and how they are graduating college in impressive numbers with fantastic degrees, right feminists?

And to the few feminists who can at least see the writing on the wall, but with a shit eating grin ask, “oh, and I suppose the mennzzz won’t be hurt when this country finally reaches it’s breaking point?” Of course men will be hurt, and will suffer, but the joy in watching feminists try and survive in a country that can’t afford to bankroll their exploits anymore will help with the suffering. At least it will for me.

And no fat boy Futrelle and manboobzerrs, I doubt it will play out like Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome . But your degree in sociology is not going to get you to the the front of soup and bread lines. Seeing as this will never happen though my advice is more snark. Because who knows, being snarky just may help you out when there is no money to heat your home, or pay for food. My guess though is that it will probably just get you punched in the face a lot.

Of course I would never touch you, but if there is a time when things get pretty rough a lot of men, even “the good ones” will be be less tolerant of your shit.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 5
Ronin May 31, 2012 at 14:13

@ Eric
26y/o old woman;

“‘You are missing out…’

That’s why I am glad Price lets women post here. We should all be reminded of why we turned our backs on feminised women occasionally. Nothing does the job better than letting you grrrls open your mouths.”

I pondered this off and on as i envision The Spearhead as a virtual gentlemen’s only enclave where one could kick back with a scotch and cigar whilst the real talk flow without the emotional/vacuous prattle from you know who. Then one recall how Jizzbell and the like cowardly moderate any form of dissenting common sense. Glasses up high.
Gan Bei
Kanpai
Che Loong
Ge Natz
Ji Ve Li
Salud
Prost

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3
Opus May 31, 2012 at 14:16

… but can you imagine a twenty six year old man saying that he had

been on more demos
saved more lives
been more published
lifted more weights
read more books

and he is still only 26

and then concluding with an animadversion as to his sexual prowess and the rejoinder that he hadn’t been dumped. – and better still coming here to tell us all about it. Clearly his present girlfriend would be wise to seek a new lover should she want a family as he has ‘miles to go yet’. (Notice the complete lack of concern by-the-way by 26 year old woman for her present bf for what he as a normal male might desire. It’s all about her with bf taking a walk on part).

What would you all make of that (getting back to 26 yr old man) – as if I need ask. It would be simply boasting by 26 yr old man and about nothing. You would doubt his veracity and suspect a fraud. If you did believe him you would conclude he was at sixes and sevens and drifting aimlessly. Need I say more?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5
Towgunner May 31, 2012 at 14:51

The funny thing is that all this boasting on the part of mizz 26yearold is not very impressive to me since I basically did everything and more on that list before I was 26, excluding demonstrations. Moreover, I suspect the majority of men here at The Spearhead did too. The difference is that we don’t feel the tugging need for validation like mizz 26yearold. You just can’t help yourself to constantly be the center of attention, can you mizz 26yearold. Here comes her expected rebuttal of never laid, mom’s basement but who is really the pathetic one here? I don’t go to feminist only website and boast about my accomplishments in life. I don’t do it anywhere, why should I, I’m quite secure in myself. mizz 26yearoldwomen, you’ll note that I post on The Spearhead because of people like you, who’s place in this world is unfounded had it not been for affirmative action etc. I come here not to boast but to make an impact and to destroy the toxic sickness of feminism. This should be apparent to you; yet, you somehow think we’ll be impressed by your un-verified and inflated cv? You dense? Nice to know your caliber is in nursing school…fyi that’s sarcasm.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 5
Uncle Elmer May 31, 2012 at 15:40

R.Don writes, circa 1987 :

WHY NOT A WOMAN 25 TO 35?

Never married women over 25 insist on being serious, *Where
is this leading?” If you haven’t had the pleasure yet, it means,
“Are we getting married?” Young women don’t ask about my
remarriage plans before the salad arrives.

A divorced woman in this age range is wonderful if she
doesn’t look for men in a bar, if she doesn’t have children and
if she’s not off on some liberated binge. But, it’s impossible to
find a single woman under 35 who isn’t in a bar smoking
cigarettes one after the other, looking the males over like she’s
choosing her evening meal.Most want only uninvolved sex,their
way of avoiding loneliness without getting hurt, again. If I do manage to meet a woman in this age range, she’s either living with a guy or has two children.

The ones with kids have lost their zest, lost their idealism,
lost their interest in experimenting and exploring. They are tired
every night. They distrust men. Some hate men and use them
without blinking an eye, rationalizing it as getting even for all
the suffering males have caused them.

WHY NOT A WOMAN MY AGE?
In my experience most are looking for a new husbands o they
don’t have to stay out here in this big, mean, cold, nasty, cruel
world and make it. The ones not looking to get married aren’t
busy losing weight and getting into shape, they’re grinding a
feminist ax. Stuff what they say about beauty only being skin
deep. Fat bellies, saggy breasts,stretch marks and wide asses
are not attractive.

Women my age, and yours, expect me to be hard, strong,
unemotional, rational, their knight in shining armor. I am no
longer anyone’s savior or protector. I don’t fix cars, washing
machines or anything else unless the damsel in distress is under
25. Harsh words,y es.They reflect what I ‘ve learned, the harsh
way.

Relationships with women close to my age are, “Like, You
know, totally, predictable”. I know the role I’m supposed to
play. She knows the role I’m supposed to play. Through subtle,
and sometimes not so subtle manipulation she prevents me from
being anything other than what she wants me to be, expects me
to be. I end up relating to her the way I related to my former
wife. There’s no room for innovation or freedom, no way to
stop the same old shit from happening.

Women over 35 are behavioral clones of my ex and yours,
as tired, as jaded, as boring,with the same values.They’re from
the same era.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 4
Andie May 31, 2012 at 15:42

@26 year old woman

Let’s see how you feel when you’re 29 and the end of everything possible is right at your doorstep. Hell, lots of women are infertile at 26. Done. You won’t do everything. You won’t be a mother.

And if that doesn’t bother you, darlin’, you ain’t a woman.

And if your plans are to actually BE a mother (as in do the damn work), you are already in very deep water.

Your resume will never put his chubby little arms around you and tell you he loves you, like a child will. Your resume will never give you grandchildren, like your children might. Your resume will never share in all your joys, all your sorrows, all your triumphs, all your tragedies, like your husband will.

But you WILL be able to rape that resume of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over your lifetime. Yay!

The fastest growing consumer product category: scented candles. SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES.

Yes, 26 year old woman, all your education and opportunity and rights have resulted in millions of children raised without fathers, the total destruction of the family, the rise of GIANT ASS government to give all those wymyns a place to work (doing utterly useless shit) and what was it for? What did we gain?

SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES!!

Nicely done, ladies. Really good job.

Fuck you, bitch. My daughters are coming for you. And millions of daughters just like mine. We see you, you superficial piece of trash. You have cost us our lives. For patchouli candles.

You will pay.

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Uncle Elmer May 31, 2012 at 16:22

continent May 31, 2012 at 09:56

Picture of military moms in uniform breastfeeding babies stir controversy (Drudge Report)
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/military-moms-breastfeeding-uniform-stir-controversey-214500503.html

—————————————–

Meme turnaround time is measured in hours now.

It takes agility to respond before the milk sours :

http://www.the-spearhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Time-New-Military.jpg

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
Charles Martel May 31, 2012 at 16:49

@Andie

Wow. No mercy. Thanks for being here and for getting it. You’re an unusual woman.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 10
GingerSnaps May 31, 2012 at 17:49

“You work very hard and achieve a wife, children, a good job, and social status–anything is possible in the good ole US of A.”

The problem with this is that wife/children are PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS. You don’t get to achieve them…… duh?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 25
Peter South May 31, 2012 at 18:04

“The problem with this is that wife/children are PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS. You don’t get to achieve them…… duh?”

How good looking, wealthy, socially connected a man is will determine what kind of wife you get and therefore what kind of children.

So yes they are achieved for a man.

See what you did with your relentless hypergamy? You went and dehumanized yourself.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 9
Lyn87 May 31, 2012 at 18:39

I’m 26 years old.

Let’s unpack this, shall we? Those glorious achievements of yours don’t even put you in the medal round at the Spearhead. Seriously, if you’re going to compare achievements with the men here you’re going to be eliminated in the quarter finals – that’s even if you make it past the regular season. If you spend some time here you’re figure out how unimpressive that list is. Let me help:

I’m 26 years old. 27 terrifyingly soon. I am nothing like the person I was when I graduated college.

Congratulations: your I.Q. is above 60. Seriously, you want a cookie?

After originally getting a film degree

A FILM degree? Consider the lack of academic rigor involved in that, then ask yourself why you thought that would evoke something other than ridicule among red-pill men. Then consider the money you or somebody else spent for you to get that expensive-but-useless diploma. Then consider the opportunity cost associated with spending that time and money on a film degree.

I’ve just started nursing school

That means the “career” in film didn’t work out, which leads credence to my earlier supposition that it was a waste of time and money as far as preparing you to do anything useful. So now – at 26 with no apparent marketable skills – you are starting over in a course of instruction you may or not even complete (around one in three nursing students do not complete the program). That’s going to cost even more time and money.

I’m dating a wonderful guy who mysteriously didn’t dump me on my 25th birthday.

So you have a boyfriend. Wow.

I’m doing difficult, not always fun, but ultimately socially useful work, work I couldn’t imagine myself doing when I graduated college.

I’m not sure being a 26-year-old freshman qualifies as work at all (absent further elaboration on your part), but whenever I hear someone use words like “socially useful” to describe what she does, I assume it’s irrelevant at best, and probably counterproductive to society.

Since I graduated college, I’ve read more books, worked on more movies, learned more skills, lifted more weight, traveled more places, marched in more protests, gotten published more times, saved more lives than I thought I ever would.

First of all, since we have have no idea what you ever thought you could do in these areas, this entire section provides a meaningless metric. We simply have no way to gauge whether what you thought you would do is a lot or a little. Although you claim to have been published more than once it makes me wonder who would publish someone who can’t communicate clearly using written English.

Since I graduated college… You graduated with a degree so worthless you are leaving the field to go back to school to learn something that involves a salary. Read more books… So you can read. Wow again. If we’re supposed to be impressed with your reading the question is: WHAT did you read? Worked on more movies… Which movies? Are they significant beyond some irrelevant artsy enclave? In what capacity: fluffer? Lifted more weight… So you have a gym membership (if you meant that literally). Stop the presses. Traveled more places… This could mean almost anything. Did you travel alone? Did you pay for it yourself? Did it involve other countries and cultures? How long did you stay? Gotten published more times… Already partially addressed. Were you paid? Was it a regular gig or not? Who published you? What was the circulation? Saved more lives… You’re a freshman nursing student, not a thoracic surgeon. What did you do, call 9-1-1 when you saw a bus crash?

I’m with W.F. Price: I do not wish you ill, so take this as friendly advice from a guy who is not quite twice your age. You appear to be an unfocused woman who is at least halfway through her fertile years. It’s not entirely your fault – being born in 1985 you were probably few a steady diet of “Yugo Grrrl!” that has little basis in the realities of the adult world. Nonetheless, you may never change your mind about a husband and kids. Fine. But a lot of women have been in your shoes and bitterly regretted those choices later. Life is not a giant Planned Parenthood clinic where the consequences of “choice” disappear down a drain. In life it is much harder to escape the consequences of our choices, and your window of opportunity to set your course may be much smaller than you think.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 44 Thumb down 11
Ounie May 31, 2012 at 18:47

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 35
W.F. Price May 31, 2012 at 19:03

Ok – I don’t post but lurk. Seriously this site has got to stop with the racist talk if you want to be taken at all seriously. God why! I’m not going to bother reading the comments although the original article was good.

-Ounie

Moderation is a constant struggle — especially when you try to maintain an open comment policy. I’m not opposed to people mentioning race as relevant, but as you point out it gets very disruptive if boundaries are not respected.

greenlander May 31, 2012 at 19:49

Saved more lives… You’re a freshman nursing student, not a thoracic surgeon. What did you do, call 9-1-1 when you saw a bus crash?

LMFAO!

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3
Eric May 31, 2012 at 20:02

Martel:
‘…Boxer’s little brother.’

Ouch! Don’t say that even in jest!

It’s one thing to be wrong or misinformed; but if I ever start sounding like that guy, it will be time to take a vacation from commenting for about two weeks! LOL

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Cindy May 31, 2012 at 20:37

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 52
Eric May 31, 2012 at 20:47

Cindy;
Considering the rate that women are getting knocked up out of wedlock by thugs and producing feral offspring; the appalling divorce rate, the rate of abortions and the legalised anarchism of our culture generally; I don’t think that any man wanting to live in a jungle would really have to leave the country to do it. Frankly, I’d like to leave just to escape the barbarism.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 49 Thumb down 3
Eric May 31, 2012 at 21:49

GingerSnaps:
‘The problem is that wives and children are human beings, you don’t get to achieve them.’

Unfortunately, in modern America that’s true. Thugs, gang-bangers, dope addicts have women and children about easily as they have welfare. The productive men are cut out of the picture entirely.

It seems a strange contradiction in feminist logic that ‘no man is good enough to earn a relationship’ but slutting around with bums and knocking out kids with them is considered ‘empowering.’ But I guess that’s all supposed to prove that they ‘don’t need a man’ and that’s the important point. The real losers are the kids, and that’s the tragic part.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 4
Samizdat Jones May 31, 2012 at 23:31

From same link…

This is on its way to being a Discredited Trope: the latest Japanese census data shows that more and more people are marrying older, with most people under 25 remaining unmarried. Many teens and young adults have never heard of the concept and many that have think it’s old-fashioned. Having a character believing in the Christmas Cake concept may mark them as being likewise old-fashioned.

Sure, it does say that. But then consider that the site is a wiki and thus plagued with the usual problems of consensus editing and biases of feminism. Of course it’s going to be made out to be old fashioned! More telling should be the attempts to make the concept gender neutral by editing in male versions of the concept…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Andie June 1, 2012 at 06:20

Heh. Futrelle added a scented candle to his sidebar! Apparently, scented candles are misandry.

Reading comprehension = ZERO

None of the commenters over there seem to have noticed that Andie is a woman, either.

Reading comprehension = STILL ZERO

Hilarious how many of them admitted that they have scented candles. Excellent use of your money, ladies!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 4
Migu June 1, 2012 at 07:31

Ok – I don’t post but lurk. Seriously this site has got to stop with the racist talk if you want to be taken at all seriously. God why! I’m not going to bother reading the comments although the original article was good.

The site is not the racist. The racist is the racist. If someone posts White Power at a CNN site, is CNN now racist?

Somehow we’ve got to kill doublethink.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 1
meistergedanken June 1, 2012 at 08:59

Ounie wrote:
“Seriously this site has got to stop with the racist talk if you want to be taken at all seriously. God why! I’m not going to bother reading the comments although the original article was good.”

Take a moment to unbunch your panties. So there was like, what, ONE comment in this 180+ comment thread that mentioned race (and was immediately countered a moment later) and you get all upset about it??? Seriously? And Ryu hasn’t even BEEN here.

Get over yourself. I wish you were as outraged about misandry.

This is what appeasement gets you. Bill – no matter how much moderation you do – it will NEVER be enough for these people. I swear, these PC pussies wake up in the morning just itching to be offended….

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 2
Nugganu June 1, 2012 at 09:39

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – here in Canada we have a pandemic of spinsters 35+ who have no husbands, no prospects, and no children. It’s no coincidence that the disease of feminism amongst Canadian women is 10 times more virulent than any where else in the world.

Everyday I indulge in schadenfreude watching my ex, whom I split with 8 years ago, sink into genetic irrelevance, as the months past and her second chin sags lower and lower, and her axe-handle width arse expands ever wider. Her demeanour becomes all the more dour as she watches me raise my young daughter, knowing full well that my child could have been hers, but alas, she decided to turn into an entitled feminist bitch at 28 and turn on me.

Now, at 36, does she finally see the truth, that she can no longer attract a man, due to her withered looks, and her brutal personality, whilst I date younger women and still enjoy the fruits of single fatherhood at 41.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Guess you shouldn’t have been so quick to let me go all those years ago honey.

If she’s lucky, maybe a man 50 to 60 years old will take a chance on her if he wants children, but I doubt it.

This is the reality none of them want to see. No wonder most women in their 30′s are on anti-depressants.

I used to think that I was a failure being a single father, but then I can and do date multiple women who love the fact that I take responsibility for my daughter.

Single motherhood is a detriment for women.

Single fatherhood is almost a DHV for men, women love us single dads.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 9
LeaveaComment June 1, 2012 at 09:46

Ms. 26-year-old woman,

Have you ever heard about Ms. Germaine Greer? She is “strong and independent” as they can get. Which “wave” of feminists is she? Know what? She eventually got baby-rabies. They all do. She regretted drinking the kool-aid she herself dispensed to the masses of unwitting women.

“By the time Greer experienced this epiphany, she was too old to conceive. She had bought into the feminist myth she helped create, that childbearing was part of the patriarchal plot to keep women enslaved… our children are the most incredible part of our lives.

So, whereas in the past I might have thought that Greer had earned her desolation, that it served her right for the critical damage feminists did to all the women with their negative brainwashing about the value of motherhood, I mostly now pity her. All that anger for so long has robbed her and so many others of the most incredible beauty that they as women could experience.” – Dr. Laura Schlessinger
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/762412/Pity-feminists-who-missed-motherhood.html

If it might help, google: leftover women china
A link in the results point to Ms. Magazine has this text:

“Last week, 26-year-old newlywed college graduate Li Fang (a pseudonym) explained to me over dinner why she had been in such a rush to marry:

‘If I hadn’t gotten married now, I would still have to date for at least one or two years. Then I would already have passed the best child-bearing age and I would be a leftover woman.’ ”

One could guess, the biology of Chinese women is the same as other women elsewhere. Then age limits should not be that different, then. Are they?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 5
Opus June 1, 2012 at 10:17

One must rush to the defence of Germaine Greer. She is a brilliant academic; her little book on Shakespeare is a no-nonsense exposition of the bard and his work. Very impressive I would say. Ms Greer and I have this in common: neither of us can give birth – but am I upset? Do I look like a bag-lady?

She’s Australian: for Canadians there seems to be no hope (and why with the obvious exception of out own Boxer are Canadian men such pussy-begging wimps?) – what is it with Colonial women?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4
Nugganu June 1, 2012 at 10:33

Opus – Canadian men have been bombarded with feminism in our left wing media, and education system – they’re brainwashed from the get go, especially in urban centres. Our own CBC is a state run, 24-7 marxist/feminist propaganda machine.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 4
Poester99 June 1, 2012 at 10:50

That kind of life experience isn’t instilled today because once you gain insight into what they went through, it’s easy to figure out that life here is gravy and people do more harm to themselves trying to live up to some twisted ideals that in the end don’t mean squat. Stop ignoring old people.

Well, there are old people that are stupid and wrong (and/or evil) too, and they’ve left us the current mess. Lots of things are new in the current zeitgeist (not new in the span of all history, but new, say, for the last 100 or so years) that they sometimes just can’t get their heads around it so they go around proscribing (sic, senile doctor LOL) half solutions that end up causing more misery.

Women, as a group, do not police themselves anymore, like they used to. They will continue to take take take, until everything comes crashing down around them, and it will still be “mens” fault, because “men” (the men on top) should have stopped giving them everything they ask for.

As for MGTOW, that is NOT new, men have always been difficult to control and the solution used by the elites has, historically, been conscription to war and forced labor camps. If you think it can’t happen AGAIN you’re just not paying attention.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3
Pirran June 1, 2012 at 12:04

@Ronin May 31, 2012 at 11:28

I’d forgotten about Garfunkel & Oates. God how apposite – great spot.

If ever a link should be cluster-bombed onto Manboobz (and every other delusional site), it’s that one.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Poester99 June 1, 2012 at 12:41

@keyster May 30, 2012 at 09:39

I don’t understand why men wait so long to get married.

Because there are NO WIVES TO MARRY; only competitors, co-workers and bosses…along with the occassional psycho-slut from Hell or divorced heroic single mom.

Yep… this is the money quote! Saving it for later…

You can try and social engineer Feminism by force through academic indocrination, MSM propaganda and government legislation but the market, in this case a man’s Free Will, will ultimately decide the natural outcome.

There are always ways (legal or otherwise, and just about anything can be made “legal”) to force single men to underwrite women’s reproductive choices.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
Szebran June 1, 2012 at 13:33

I think its good these women hold out cause they sound self centered, shallow and materalistic. The longer they hold out the less likely they are to marry and therefore ruin some guys life.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4
Renee June 1, 2012 at 15:41

A few things about this:

A wouldn’t say college is a waste for women. If they take advantage of their time there (which does indeed happen), they can go off and be successful and effective in whatever endeavor they choose. Motherhood and being a wife aren’t the entire sum of who females are as a sex or the only things we can offer to society. It may not be as important compared to motherhood evolution-wise, but there’s more to humanity than simple biology.

They think they can do better at 30 than at 22, which, in most cases, is simply wrong. Some might say that family and men are not a priority for these girls, but women for whom this is really true throughout life are an insignificant minority. In fact, most women are holding out precisely because they think they can get a better man later, perhaps when they have a better job and work with more powerful men.

Or maybe they aren’t ready for that large of a responsibility. Personally I believe it’s more about figuring out what you want out of life and who you want to be, and yes enjoying life, before you become a parent (no it’s not all about sex and yes you can enjoy life as a parent, but most would like to first enjoy life without that huge responsibility or parenthood).

But these girls are not going to change fundamentally, and in their early 20s are at the peak of their beauty while still retaining an innocent charm. Nothing about their looks or personality is going to make them more appealing at 30 than at 22, and the men available to them are not going to get any better, either.

So do you advise girls to just get married and have kids alot earlier than planned, because the last thing I would want is for anyone to get married and have kids before they are ready. I simply don’t think the waiting is JUST about finding men. There’s more to it than that.

As for the essay, I figure that mating and the dating market were the last thing the writer was concerned about, because in the grand scheme of things, a woman’s life shouldn’t center around finding a mate or having kids (especially if that isn’t what she wants at that point in her life). I agree the timing can be at times tricky, but I just don’t believe that women and girls should look for a husband* and have kids before they actually want to.

*=It kind of annoys me how people make it seem that females can go out and find a husband with ease. I’m not talking about the whole belief of ~no good men~, which I absolutely don’t believe. I’m talking about simply finding one. I mean, how long does that take in and of itself, it could take years. Should a woman put her life on hold just to find a husband? In the hopes of finding a husband?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 15
Renee June 1, 2012 at 15:59

One more thing.

Yeah I’m aware of the risk for women of it being too late in waiting. I guess from a Christian standpoint, I believe that God has put a dream in each of our hearts and has given us a gift and destiny. And for women, it’s not just about having kids and being a wife. Not all women are meant to be wives and/or mothers. Some are.

As for me, I was taught to not rush God (and no, I’m not expecting Him to do ALL of the work – myself not getting out and meeting people and thus creating the opportunity to meet my future husband).

I’m 28 and single with no kids about to get my masters in Biotechnology this fall. I don’t know if I’m going to get married or have kids. If it doesn’t happen then OK, it’s not the end of the world. My life won’t end if I’m not a wife and/or mother.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 17
Eric June 1, 2012 at 17:27

Renee:
‘Motherhood and being wives aren’t the entire sum of who females are as a sex or the only things we can offer to society.’

If you’re talking about nuns, that might be so. But why are you depreciating motherhood and being a wife? Is that nothing to offer society?

‘I don’t think that women and girls should look for a husband until they want to.’

The problem is that they never want to. Feminised women see marriage and childbearing as an obligation and a limit to their ‘independence’ (i.e., irresponsibility). Most of them aren’t looking for husbands at all; only for sperm donors who’ll fill some ‘biological necessity’ by giving them children. Afterwards, the grrrls wash their hands of the man completely (or punish him with divorce and child-support) and go back to recovering their Grrrl Power.

‘It annoys me that some people think that females can find a husband with ease.’

There’s good reason for thinking so. Look how many women are on their 3rd and 4th marriages; and how many are shacked up with different guys.

‘My life won’t end if I’m not a wife/mother.’

Based on your earlier statement, I suspect that like most American women your age, you hate the idea of being a wife or mother.

This is why I say that women in our culture fundamentally hate men. The thought of sharing your lives with a hated male is so abhorrent to women that they put marriage off as long as possible and get out of marriage as soon possible . It’s no argument to talk about ‘career first’ I know plenty of women in non-feminist cultures who both a career and a family at the same time.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 8
Michael June 1, 2012 at 18:14

@Renee

Motherhood is not about sums. We talk about quality of motherhood, and that is a function of timeliness (among other variables).

Let’s face the facts, if you want to be a good mother and give your children what _they_ need, then you will sacrifice your career for as long as _they_ need your full-time attention. Having your first children beyond the age of 30, because your choose to juggle motherhood with career and a ‘fun lifestyle’, is simply irrational. That is not what women have evolved to in biological terms.

The result of the discrepancy between your maternal instincts and your actions translate to unhappiness (unhappiness = imbalance between your natural instincts and your cognitive world). And you can rest assured that sooner or later it will hit you as hard as any unwed, childless woman. Go ahead and have unrestrained sex and pursue your career. The fact that you want both is testament to your delusion: You think, because sex for you is consequence-free fun, it is totally compatible to a career. But think about it: without contraception, you would have a change of perception as soon as you got yourself knocked up. And that would be beyond your control, as your sex-drive is beyond your control now. Your body wants to procreate but you deny it, so do not be surprised about the repercussions later in life.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5
Michael June 1, 2012 at 18:20

@Renee

‘My life won’t end if I’m not a wife/mother.’

Well, funny thing is, it actually does. Half of what you are will live on in your children, but I suppose you are aiming at a different form of afterlife: academic merits and remembrance. Good luck with that. Chances that you’ll be anything else than a surname on a few papers after you depart are quite slim. But as I said, I wish you well.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 8
W.F. Price June 1, 2012 at 18:33

A few things about this:

A wouldn’t say college is a waste for women. If they take advantage of their time there (which does indeed happen), they can go off and be successful and effective in whatever endeavor they choose. Motherhood and being a wife aren’t the entire sum of who females are as a sex or the only things we can offer to society. It may not be as important compared to motherhood evolution-wise, but there’s more to humanity than simple biology.

-Renee

Hi Renee. I don’t think women all want to get married and have kids immediately at 25, and it wasn’t exactly my intent to suggest that. My point was that it gets harder to find someone later for practical reasons, such as availability and time, so if you really do want a family, 25 is the time to get serious about it. There are other reasons for this as well. For example, getting kids out the way early is nice. If, like most people, you only want a couple, they could already be grown up and out of the house when you’re in your mid-40s, which leaves you a lot of time to devote to career, hobbies, etc. Also, you could have grandkids a lot earlier. The list goes on.

I wonder why women are so resistant to what I see as pretty honest, good advice. They say “you don’t need to tell me, I already know it,” but a lot of them are acting as though they have no clue.

Renee June 1, 2012 at 18:49

Eric,
If you’re talking about nuns, that might be so. But why are you depreciating motherhood and being a wife? Is that nothing to offer society?

Now where in the world did I say that? I didn’t and would never depreciating motherhood or being a wife. I’m just saying that there are other paths for females.

Based on your earlier statement, I suspect that like most American women your age, you hate the idea of being a wife or mother.

*Sigh*, saying that there are other paths for women and that their lives aren’t over if they aren’t married and/or have kids is not equivalent to hating the idea of being a wife or mother. Come on now!

The problem is that they never want to. Feminised women see marriage and childbearing as an obligation and a limit to their ‘independence’ (i.e., irresponsibility).

Well if they don’t want to, then they don’t want to. Not all females want to get married and/or have kids and not all of them are meant to. I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want a irresponsible woman to have kids, even if she is married.

Parenthood is a big responsibility and a sacrifice. I would want a person to be honest with themselves and admit that they aren’t prepared for the responsibility and sacrifice. And anyway, not wanting to have marriage and/or kids isn’t an automatic indication of irresponsibility unless you’re an irresponsible person to begin with. Like I said above, I wouldn’t want an irresponsible person to have kids.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6
Eric June 1, 2012 at 19:04

Renee:
When you say ‘there are other paths for females’ you seem to be implying very strongly that raising a family and having a career are mutually exclusive. That’s a very common attitude among American women; and typically a pretext to hide their inherent horror of involving a man in their lives.

What I said on the other comment you quoted, I might not have expressed as clearly as I should have. What I meant was, that women are having children without any thought to the man other than as a sperm donor. ‘Parenthood is a big responsibilty and sacrifice’ is true; but the first sacrifice women typically make after childbirth is sacrificing the father.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Renee June 1, 2012 at 19:07

Michael,
Well, funny thing is, it actually does. Half of what you are will live on in your children, but I suppose you are aiming at a different form of afterlife: academic merits and remembrance. Good luck with that. Chances that you’ll be anything else than a surname on a few papers after you depart are quite slim. But as I said, I wish you well.

My afterlife is in Heaven ;) Anyway, I wasn’t even talking about the afterlife (but I’m sure you knew that).

The result of the discrepancy between your maternal instincts and your actions translate to unhappiness (unhappiness = imbalance between your natural instincts and your cognitive world). And you can rest assured that sooner or later it will hit you as hard as any unwed, childless woman. Go ahead and have unrestrained sex and pursue your career. The fact that you want both is testament to your delusion: You think, because sex for you is consequence-free fun, it is totally compatible to a career.

WHOAH…assumption much?!!! Where did I mention that I was interested in unrestrained sex or even pre-maritial sex period??? I even said that it wasn’t all about sex because I knew that guys like you would jump to that conclusion….and you did anyway lol. And you don’t know how I will feel in the future, you don’t know me so don’t dump your generalizations on me.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9
Renee June 1, 2012 at 19:13

Eric,
When you say ‘there are other paths for females’ you seem to be implying very strongly that raising a family and having a career are mutually exclusive. That’s a very common attitude among American women; and typically a pretext to hide their inherent horror of involving a man in their lives.

Ummmm….no. Unlike some commentors here, I believe that one can have a family and a career (if that’s what you mean). And once again, this has nothing to do with any ill feelings toward men…..

What I said on the other comment you quoted, I might not have expressed as clearly as I should have. What I meant was, that women are having children without any thought to the man other than as a sperm donor. ‘Parenthood is a big responsibilty and sacrifice’ is true; but the first sacrifice women typically make after childbirth is sacrificing the father.

And that’s awful, but how does this relate to anything I’ve said? I never included this scenario in mind when I made my comments, nor do I support it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5
Michael June 1, 2012 at 19:27

@Renee
WHOAH…assumption much?!!! Where did I mention that I was interested in unrestrained sex or even pre-maritial sex period???

I call sex outside of wedlock unrestrained sex – free of any societal restrictions. In case you are so uninterested in sex that you simply don’t have any, well good for you. And bad for the men who miss out on a quality woman such as you ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3
Eric June 1, 2012 at 19:32

Renee,
Reading statements like:
‘most would prefer to enjoy life without the responsibility of parenthood;’
‘a woman’s life shouldn’t center around finding a mate’;
‘should a woman put her life on hold just to find a husband?’;
‘it’s not just about being a mother or a wife’

It’s difficult to believe that a latent hatred of men/parenthood is underlying such sentiments. All of the ones I just quoted seem to imply, at least as written, that you consider raising families at the bottom of the barrel as far as female priorities should be.

I agree with you though that women shouldn’t commit to family before they are ready, but I also believe that feminist education never makes women fully ready. In non-feminist cultures women typically are ready for making families at considerably earlier ages than is normal here.

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Reader June 1, 2012 at 19:38

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Renee June 1, 2012 at 19:43

Price,
Hi Renee. I don’t think women all want to get married and have kids immediately at 25, and it wasn’t exactly my intent to suggest that. My point was that it gets harder to find someone later for practical reasons, such as availability and time, so if you really do want a family, 25 is the time to get serious about it. There are other reasons for this as well. For example, getting kids out the way early is nice. If, like most people, you only want a couple, they could already be grown up and out of the house when you’re in your mid-40s, which leaves you a lot of time to devote to career, hobbies, etc. Also, you could have grandkids a lot earlier. The list goes on.

How early are we talking about here, because before having kids you need $$$ and your own place, car, etc., unless a girl is lucky enough to somehow find and marry a rich, or well to do man. And anyway, it seems that some type of degree will give you a better chance for a decent, well paying job (unless you’re going into retail, fast food, waitressing, etc.).

As for going to college in your mid-40s….I’m thinking it depends on what you’re trying to do. Or maybe not.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 10
Anonymous age 70 June 1, 2012 at 20:02

>>Lara May 31, 2012 at 04:28

>> Hf,
>>What are you talking about? Seventy-five year old >>men don’t get twenty-five year old women.
>>Emma,
>>Good distinction.

Let me fix that. IN THE UNITED STATES seventy-five year old men don’t get twenty-five year old women.

I just wrote about the 78 year old man in my village whose ‘wife’ is 20 and pregnant. The youngest I have been hit on, by, is around 22 with 2 kids and a husband. Well, 6 years ago, a 14 year old girl fell madly in love with me. But, she was obviously not available.

>>Cindy May 31, 2012 at 20:37

>>Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

>>What a barbaric group of men. I wish you all would just emigrate already. You’d be a lot happier squatting in the jungle like animals.

I do my very best to convince them to leave. I call it my GTHO program. But, in my little Third World village, I do not squat in the jungle. I have US standard wiring, to some extent, running water; a jacuzzi; DSL; satellite TV; washing machine; better kitchen stove than I had in the US: microwave; and more. And most important of all, there are actually sane women here.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
W.F. Price June 1, 2012 at 20:38

How early are we talking about here, because before having kids you need $$$ and your own place, car, etc., unless a girl is lucky enough to somehow find and marry a rich, or well to do man. And anyway, it seems that some type of degree will give you a better chance for a decent, well paying job (unless you’re going into retail, fast food, waitressing, etc.).

As for going to college in your mid-40s….I’m thinking it depends on what you’re trying to do. Or maybe not.

-Renee

I’m not saying “get married and have a baby now,” but rather that you ought to at least have some stability as far as relationships are concerned. It really is harder to do it when you’re in your 30s and busier, and competing with huge numbers of younger women. As for college, sure, if you want a degree get it. But in that case 25 is a perfectly reasonable time to start looking for “the one.” Earlier, I think, for women who don’t go.

Men are no more static than women. You can’t put them on hold for a long time and expect the same fresh crop you had at your beck and call when you were in your early 20s. You might even have to eventually settle for dreary sex sessions with aging manginas, and if you are normal, that isn’t what you want.

Jacob Ian Stalk June 1, 2012 at 23:22

@Renee

“I guess from a Christian standpoint, I believe that God has put a dream in each of our hearts and has given us a gift and destiny. “

God doesn’t put dreams in the hearts of women; that’s the serpent seducing it’s target. The gift God gives to women is, guess what? A man who believes in Him! God even provides a user manual. The destiny he has for women is to support the man as He does God’s work.

“Not all women are meant to be wives and/or mothers.”

Errm, yes they are. At least in God’s creation. Perhaps you meant to write “not all women will be wives or mothers”. That would be closer to the mark. Why? Most likely because their feminist sisters the serpent taught them to refuse God’s gift and/or write their own user manual.

The serpent’s soul-destroying poison is the idea that Adam’s sin excuses Eve’s. This is in the first 50 or so verses of the Bible. The other 17,000 or so are how to administer the antidote.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 7
nugganu June 2, 2012 at 06:02

Reading Renee’s posts is like eating glass.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4
nugganu June 2, 2012 at 06:04

“Lots of vitriol and anger in this thread. As a man, I don’t recall having this gender conflict about commitment/family formation around 2006-07, in fact it was the exact opposite: the women were trying to get *me* to commit and propose to them, and I was the reluctant bachelor. ”

That’s cuz yer a nob polisher

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5
Lord Valtrex June 2, 2012 at 06:54

Renee,

As a woman, you must plant in the Spring of your life to enjoy the harvest in the Autumn of your life.

You may not feel like doing this work in the Spring, but if you do not, come Winter, you will starve to death. This is how childless women die, emotionally and spiritually.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 9
nugganu June 2, 2012 at 07:00

LMAO!@ the troll ‘Tyrone’ over at manboobz telling Futrelle he wants to put his big black cock in him! Could not stop laughing when I read that, oh I’m crying over hear, lol!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
Traveler June 2, 2012 at 07:46

Very good post, though some of the comments are special :/
I am one of those 25 yr old women who (as you note) are a significant minority…I am a college graduate who has no desire for a husband or children. I first started working at 17 (unless we count doing yardwork for elderly neighbors or babysitting, then we’ll go with 13), and I’ve always been proud of my strong work ethic and the sense of accomplishment from a successful project or job well done. I’ve worked for the same company for 6 yrs now, and will become a partner in the next 2.
It seems this entire article is true…barring any calamities I can indeed see where I’ll be in 10 yrs. Happily single, successful (if not wealthy) and free! Thanks again for a wonderful article.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 6
Opus June 2, 2012 at 08:07

How dare Mr Price tell me that it might be too late to become a brain surgeon if I don’t start college before I am twenty five. I am not sure I am ready for the responsibility of study and the daily grind of hard work thereafter yet and it is very important to find out in life who and what you are which is why I spend my time playing pool smoking dope and pimping the hos. Waiting for the right course is important so there is no need for me to rush into it. A man’s life shouldn’t centre around study and work. I agree the timing can be tricky but a man shouldn’t start looking for the right college before he is ready. It annoys me the way people say a man can just go out and get a place at Harvard or Yale. These things can take years. Should a man put his life as an alpha bad-boy on hold just because he has yet to find the right job and how dare anyone call me a failure as a man just because I can’t get up in the morning.

One more thing, I believe that God has put a dream in our hearts and not having a job or salary is not the end, for as an alpha male I am still attractive to sluts and with state benefit I will do alright. Not all men are meant to work. We can leave that to empowered career women. I may never go to college or get a job, no matter, it is not the end of life. I am 28 and have years of shagging before me still. If I don’t get a job its not the end of the world.

Work. There are other paths for a male. If they don’t want to they don’t want to. I wouldn’t want an irresponsible person – such as myself – to have a job, for that would be unfair on the company and co-workers.

Thanks for allowing me to rabbit on about me.

Harley McBadBoy

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 3
PeterTheGreat June 2, 2012 at 11:19

@DCM
“In reality, females should get married around age 16 to men about 20 and have their kids then. When the kids are becoming autonomous the female is only in her 30s and, having given birth at the right life stage, has lost less of her looks and flexibility than if she’d waited till 35. ”

That is only true if she has maybe 2 children. If she has kids every two or three years or so during her fertile years, she will still be in her late 50s when the kids are all grown.

There really isn’t time for female career unless she dumps real motherhood, unless she has a stay at home job.

Of course, in this traditional sense, she has her kids to socialize with as part of the larger family unit. She doesn’t need an outside career.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3
troll king June 2, 2012 at 12:51

nugganu June 2, 2012 at 07:00
LMAO!@ the troll ‘Tyrone’ over at manboobz telling Futrelle he wants to put his big black cock in him! Could not stop laughing when I read that, oh I’m crying over hear, lol!

———————————————————————————

Got a link? I didn’t see it? Did futrelle delete it or something?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
Eric June 2, 2012 at 18:51

Nugganu/Troll King:

LOL—that was great! I’ve been splitting my sides over that one too.

As a follow-up Tyrone should re-post it with his e-mail. Then he can post all the solicitations he gets from Futrelle’s female groupies and make Futrelle look like an even bigger chump!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Renee June 3, 2012 at 15:43

Lord Valtrex,
As a woman, you must plant in the Spring of your life to enjoy the harvest in the Autumn of your life.

You may not feel like doing this work in the Spring, but if you do not, come Winter, you will starve to death. This is how childless women die, emotionally and spiritually.

Well, I have to disagree that childless women will “die” emotionally and especially spiritually. Anyway, what about women who can’t have children in the first place? Are they hopeless, no. There is SO MUCH MORE to spirituality than whether or not have kids…in fact, it has nothing to do with it at all.
————–

Jacob Ian Stalk,
God doesn’t put dreams in the hearts of women; that’s the serpent seducing it’s target. The gift God gives to women is, guess what? A man who believes in Him! God even provides a user manual. The destiny he has for women is to support the man as He does God’s work.

Sorry, but that isn’t the only destiny He has for women. It different for each person, man and woman. Yes, for some woman a gift from God can be a Christian man but HE DOES bless us with dreams of our own. A woman’s destiny is also different per woman, and is not always related to a husband for she may never be married. And a woman can be married support her husband as He does God’s work, while fulfilling a particular work from God. By the way, the serpent targets men and women….

Errm, yes they are. At least in God’s creation. Perhaps you meant to write “not all women will be wives or mothers”. That would be closer to the mark. Why? Most likely because their feminist sisters the serpent taught them to refuse God’s gift and/or write their own user manual.

No I meant what I said. By “meant” I mean that God doesn’t have motherhood and marriage as a part of some women’s lives for His own reasons. Everyone’s story is different. He knows us better than we know ourselves. And there are some who have no business being wives and mothers due to horrible personality, being cruel, irresponsibility, immaturity, etc., etc.

The serpent’s soul-destroying poison is the idea that Adam’s sin excuses Eve’s. This is in the first 50 or so verses of the Bible. The other 17,000 or so are how to administer the antidote.

Actually no. Eve’s sins weren’t ever excused, she was punished. What it is is that when Eve sinned, nothing happened….not until Adam sinned because he was expected to shut that down.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3
Renee June 3, 2012 at 17:41

Eric,
‘most would prefer to enjoy life without the responsibility of parenthood’;
‘a woman’s life shouldn’t center around finding a mate’;
‘should a woman put her life on hold just to find a husband?’
‘it’s not just about being a mother or a wife’

It’s difficult to believe that a latent hatred of men/parenthood is [edit: not - I think that's what you meant?] underlying such sentiments. All of the ones I just quoted seem to imply, at least as written, that you consider raising families at the bottom of the barrel as far as female priorities should be.

I don’t see how…All I’m saying is that all females are different and I acknowledge that we all have different levels of priority when it comes to the idea of being a wife and/or mother. Not to mention that she shouldn’t worry herself over finding a husband. She shouldn’t NOT go to college due to a fear of not finding a man. Finding a husband shouldn’t be the center goal of her life, but that’s just me. This has nothing to do with any latent hatred of men at all, and frankly I find it really silly for someone to think so….no offense.

I agree with you though that women shouldn’t commit to family before they are ready, but I also believe that feminist education never makes women fully ready. In non-feminist cultures women typically are ready for making families at considerably earlier ages than is normal here.

What’s defined as “feminist education” specifically?. Personally I believe that over here, it’s just that there are more options in what path to take in life. People in general want to take advantage of that before they think that it’s too late. And then there’s wanting to enjoy their youth before shouldering any major responsibility like raising a family.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5
Eric June 3, 2012 at 18:05

Renee:
Yes, the edit is correct, thank you.

‘Finding a husband shouldn’t be the center goal of her life…’

How do you say that a hatred of men doesn’t underlie these kinds of statements? What I’m reading here is this: ‘Women do not need men. There are plenty of better things for them to do than worry about finding husbands. Going to college. Washing the car. Taking out the garbage…men are just not important enough for women to care about too much.’

‘What’s defined as feminist education?’

The attitudes instilled in American women that teach them that men have no value; women are inherently superior; that family-raising is a burden to be despised; reflected in statements like:

‘Wanting to enjoy their youth before taking on the responsibility of raising a family’.

Which translates as: Enjoy your irresponsible grrrl power as long as possible before accepting the burden of becoming a ‘heroic single mom’. Why can’t raising a family be a joyous way for a woman to spend her youth? Because feminist indoctrination has told her that isn’t.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6
Renee June 4, 2012 at 07:41

Eric,
‘Finding a husband shouldn’t be the center goal of her life…’

How do you say that a hatred of men doesn’t underlie these kinds of statements? What I’m reading here is this: ‘Women do not need men. There are plenty of better things for them to do than worry about finding husbands. Going to college. Washing the car. Taking out the garbage…men are just not important enough for women to care about too much.’

OH COME ON. It doesn’t mean that women don’t need men or that men aren’t important! I’m sorry but I find that fact that you think that very….self centered(?)….as if the fact that finding a husband may not the center of a woman’s life means that she hates men.

It’s not one or the other. She can not worry herself over finding a husband and do know that she wants one in the near future. She can keep her eyes open, so to speak. It’s just not her absolute focus.

‘What’s defined as feminist education?’

The attitudes instilled in American women that teach them that men have no value; women are inherently superior; that family-raising is a burden to be despised; reflected in statements like:

‘Wanting to enjoy their youth before taking on the responsibility of raising a family’.

Which translates as: Enjoy your irresponsible grrrl power as long as possible before accepting the burden of becoming a ‘heroic single mom’. Why can’t raising a family be a joyous way for a woman to spend her youth? Because feminist indoctrination has told her that isn’t.

Translation’s wrong ;) Maybe women, like men, want to enjoy youth before choosing to raise a family (and I know that biology-wise it’s different for men so don’t even start). I really don’t think it has that much to do with any feminist indoctrination. It’s not irresponsible to want to spend time with yourself before deciding to become a spouse and parent. It’s a major life change.

For some women, raising a family is a joyous way to spend her youth. For others, it’s traveling, going out with friends, simple freedom (And AGAIN, it’s not all about sex). Let’s be real, when you have kids, you don’t have as much freedom as when you were single with no kids – that’s just reality….people who have kids accept that when they’re ready to. Think about it, it’s one of the main things that people warn girls and boys about when it comes to the risks of unprotected sex and being a teen parent.

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Renee June 4, 2012 at 07:59

Total italics fail, but anyway…..

Price,
I’m not saying “get married and have a baby now,” but rather that you ought to at least have some stability as far as relationships are concerned. It really is harder to do it when you’re in your 30s and busier, and competing with huge numbers of younger women. As for college, sure, if you want a degree get it. But in that case 25 is a perfectly reasonable time to start looking for “the one.” Earlier, I think, for women who don’t go.

Men are no more static than women. You can’t put them on hold for a long time and expect the same fresh crop you had at your beck and call when you were in your early 20s. You might even have to eventually settle for dreary sex sessions with aging manginas, and if you are normal, that isn’t what you want.

Yeah I see what you’re saying. There’s a risk in waiting too long. I guess due to my beliefs and what I’ve seen in my personal life, I’m a little more optimistic about the whole thing.

Also, I guess what bothered me about some of these comments was this sweeping belief that females are doing a disservice to themselves by not BEING wives or mothers at a certain age or not wanting to be one before a certain age. Or it not being a center focus in a woman’s life.

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Renee June 4, 2012 at 08:01

Geeze my italics….get it together Renee lol

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Anonymous June 4, 2012 at 12:21

Funny how every single 25 year old female airhead on the internet claims to have “no interest in kids or husband” and yet when the biological clock goes off just a few short years later, or when her lame career falters, whichever comes first, she can’t change her tune fast enough. By then it’s too late to do anything but snare an unsuspecting beta and ruin his life with your lies and manipulation.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6
Eric June 4, 2012 at 12:57

Renee:
‘I find that very self centered, as if the fact that you think that finding a husband should not be the center of a woman’s life.’

I find it self-centered of women to put so little value on men that, as Anon pointed out, they put off sharing their precious lives with a hated man until the obligations of the ‘biological clock’ starts ticking. Then, typically, it happens as Anon describes. The woman curses her fate, marries some male she can barely tolerate, divorces him as soon as he’s deemed expendable, and goes straight back to ‘the freedom of being single’ as quickly as possible.

‘It’s one of the things that people warn girls and boys about the risks of unprotected sex and being a teen parent.’

As far as I’ve seen, the only thing people at that age are warned about are committed relationships. Young marriages are brutally shamed in feminist America; unrestricted sex and abortion are encouraged.

‘I guess due to my beliefs and my personal experience, I’m a little more optimistic about the whole thing.’

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here, this is a problem with women who try to argue NAWALT. Invariably, it always comes down to the ‘exception proving the rule’. IOW, it might be true that you feel it necessary to finish your biology studies and then you’ll be ready for marriage, find a responsible guy and be a good wife. But, I can assure you this is NOT how 99.9% of American women actually think.

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Opus June 5, 2012 at 03:18

I think that one of the things that fuels the idea that one can delay things like marriage and children, is the very American idea, that anything is possible (or even neccesary) – for ever. Cosmetic surgery, and indeed surgery generally, play to the fantasy that one need never grow up and that one will live for ever. There are always examples to be cited of people who only when over 40, or, 50, or 60, began a career or activity on which they achieved great success, and thus, almost, but not quite, defeated mortality. It is, however, the exception, that proves the rule, and although one should not rush, desparate into things, too soon, in the main, the time to attempt things is when young. Anything else looks like a desparate clasping at straws ‘… sans eyes, …sans teeth… sans everything’.

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Jacob Ian Stalk June 5, 2012 at 09:20

@ Renee

“Sorry, but that isn’t the only destiny He has for women. It different for each person, man and woman. Yes, for some woman a gift from God can be a Christian man but HE DOES bless us with dreams of our own. A woman’s destiny is also different per woman, and is not always related to a husband for she may never be married. And a woman can be married support her husband as He does God’s work, while fulfilling a particular work from God. By the way, the serpent targets men and women….”

This is the hamster version of God’s Word that is so common in the feminised Western church. The truth is that God created Eve as a helper for Adam, even though he also blesses those who fail to fulfil this primary function by providing them with alternatives. All roles are in His plan but the ‘helpmeet’ role is the only one He has ordained.

God blesses people with truth. While dreams may come true, they are in a different realm than truth. To say that someone can be “blessed with dreams” is to make the ungodly claim that truth is subjective.

The serpent targets only Eve, who presents herself willingly. There is no reference in Scripture to the serpent having anything to do with Adam.

“No I meant what I said. By “meant” I mean that God doesn’t have motherhood and marriage as a part of some women’s lives for His own reasons. Everyone’s story is different. He knows us better than we know ourselves. And there are some who have no business being wives and mothers due to horrible personality, being cruel, irresponsibility, immaturity, etc., etc.”

It is not for anyone to decide whether or not women have any “business” being wives or mothers, or why they might not. God’s reasons are His own, as you say.

“Actually no. Eve’s sins weren’t ever excused, she was punished. What it is is that when Eve sinned, nothing happened….not until Adam sinned because he was expected to shut that down.”

I did not write that Eve’s sins were excused, as that would be untrue. I wrote “Adam’s sin does not excuse Eve’s”, which is true. There’s a profound difference in what I wrote and what you’ve claimed I wrote.

What do you mean “nothing happened” when Eve sinned??

What happened was that Eve gave birth to sin by disobeying God. Adam wasn’t “expected” to “shut that down” but to ignore Eve. Adam was punished because he listened to her and ate the forbidden fruit she gave him, not because he didn’t stop her from doing so herself. Eve’s fall from grace is her own doing – with the serpents prodding.

It’s called original sin because all women do it. You, Renee, are doing it right now.

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Eric June 5, 2012 at 11:57

Opus,
Unfortunately, I think you’re right. Our culture has a lot of problems like that. I remember once hearing a European pundit say that “Americans are the only people on earth who think that death is optional.”

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Anonymous June 5, 2012 at 18:44

@Renee

One other point to bear in mind Renee about the Serpent and Eve. The curse G-d put on her for eating the fruit:

“To the woman he said,
I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you. ”
- Genesis 3:16

Note the second part. The bit about “Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you”. Regardless of Feminism’s intent, this seems to assert itself reliably when a woman turns about 29.

If you want to argue scripture, or argue from a Christian point of view, know that the Bible and modern day Feminism are not compatible. The Bible (both New and Old Testaments, if you study it) does advocate equality of the sexes, but maintains that both sexes do follow a natural order. Woe to the ones that try to move outside that order.

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Renee June 5, 2012 at 21:10

Jacob Ian Stalk,
This is the hamster version of God’s Word that is so common in the feminised Western church. The truth is that God created Eve as a helper for Adam, even though he also blesses those who fail to fulfil this primary function by providing them with alternatives. All roles are in His plan but the ‘helpmeet’ role is the only one He has ordained.

There’s nothing “hamsterish” about what I said. The primary function of women and men is to share the Word of God to the world and further the cause of the Kingdom of God. And I’m not talking about “fire and brimstone” preaching, shouting at people that they’re going to hell, forcing religion down people throats (Jesus didn’t even do that). If a woman is to be a wife and/or mother, it will happen. A woman doesn’t “fail” if she doesn’t become one.

God blesses people with truth. While dreams may come true, they are in a different realm than truth. To say that someone can be “blessed with dreams” is to make the ungodly claim that truth is subjective.

Dreams and truth are two different things. Why even put them together? To be given a vision for your life….a dream….why bring up truth?

I did not write that Eve’s sins were excused, as that would be untrue. I wrote “Adam’s sin does not excuse Eve’s”, which is true.

Well in that case, of course.

What do you mean “nothing happened” when Eve sinned??

No punishment took place, or basically everything that happened after Adam sinned didn’t take place after Eve sinned.

….Adam was punished because he listened to her and ate the forbidden fruit she gave him, not because he didn’t stop her from doing so herself.

I agree, I never meant that he was punished because he didn’t stop her.

The serpent targets only Eve, who presents herself willingly. There is no reference in Scripture to the serpent having anything to do with Adam.

I should’ve said Satan (that’s what I meant), and Satan targets everybody, men and women.
———————-
Anonymous,
The Bible (both New and Old Testaments, if you study it) does advocate equality of the sexes, but maintains that both sexes do follow a natural order.

I completely agree.

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Darryl X June 6, 2012 at 06:04

@Renee -

“Also, I guess what bothered me about some of these comments was this sweeping belief that females are doing a disservice to themselves by not BEING wives or mothers at a certain age or not wanting to be one before a certain age. Or it not being a center focus in a woman’s life.”

I think you’ve misinterpreted some of the comments. (Or maybe I have.) Females are NOT doing a disservice to themselves by not being wives or mothers at a certain age. They are, however, doing a disservice to themselves by expecting more privileage and to profit by not being a wife or mother at a certain age. A woman’s primary responsibility in life is submission to her husband and both submit to God. Submitting to her husband and both submitting to God precludes her inherent narcissism from destroying everything around her (a fate which is promoted by feminism).

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Red June 6, 2012 at 06:37

It’s almost like the last taboo in society is for some parents to just admit that they regret having children and wish they hadn’t.
A study was done in the 80s (since removed from the internet) in which 70% of parents said they regret having had children. Marketers/television etc etc just won’t allow this discussion or awareness because they need to sell reproduction as the only choice to ensure the next generation of customers.
I think this will change within the next five years and the chosen childless will increasingly be saying, “yeah, don’t have kids, don’t want kids and life’s great. You don’t have to do it.” And honestly, why the hell would you?

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Traveler June 10, 2012 at 05:01

@Anonymous

While I agree with you that some 25 yr old women SAY they are happy being single then panic at age 30, there are those of us not ruled by our hormones. As I said before, I’m of that age and have no interest in marriage or children. I’ve felt this way ever since puberty…when female classmates in middle school spoke of their future weddings and homes, I left to talk about other things. The idea of “needing” a family life has never appealed to me, just as it never appeals to some men. Many of my better customers are single men in their late thirties or early forties who’ve never been married or had children, yet they are happy. Why should I be condemned for finding the same happiness in personal freedom?

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Stuff August 17, 2012 at 00:00

To summarize:

Babiez are teh meaning of life!

Creating more of yourselves is the most important aspect of your lives?

Here you’ll start protesting that the most important aspect is your career…

But you only need careers for money, or status, which you use for s*x with hot chicks, or for marrying housewives who will take care of your children…

Which you can use for further financial and social gain.

But please, correct me if I’m wrong.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3
Stuff August 17, 2012 at 00:02

@ Red: Yes, a thousand times!

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Stuff August 17, 2012 at 00:03

The 26 year old woman in question can still adopt a child who needs a home from the US or abroad.

There’s no shortage of those children.

She’d be doing a world of good.

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Sony October 15, 2012 at 19:07

Hey, I’m 25 and single!

I would rather be 35 and single, than be 35, divorced with three kids.

The older career woman who is desperately looking for a husband bought into the idea of “having it all”. This mentality has been conditioned and stressed on to women. People my age have told me to settle down with less than ideal men, saying that I’m too picky about who to spend the rest of my life with. While older, more experienced people have told me to wait.

I understand that time is limited when it comes to starting a family. Women needs to learn how to prioritize and figure out what is important to them. Career or family? A husband that you love or a some guy who will help you produce a child that you love?

I’m friends with a woman who decided that starting a family was more important. She married young and had one child. Her marriage was terrible. They decided to get a divorce. Before the divorce, she purposely got pregnant again. She wanted her child to have a sibling. She didn’t care that the father wasn’t going to be around. She only sees him as child support.

Men gotta be careful and learn what a woman wants in life before marrying her.

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Tim November 6, 2012 at 06:16

It’s really neither men or women’s fault we find ourselves in this purgatory of confusion. Society has changed. The game has long changed. Our media representations and gender roles sold to us since the 60′s have destroyed any ritual in our societies. Men no longer know their role, and women are bombarded with material understandings of ‘success’ and image related goalposts that are becoming harder and harder to fulfil. We are designed to reproduce early- society and the monetary system in which we operate, dispose of our ‘identities’ on a daily basis. Men have a better chance at participating in this unconscious perception on success and fortune. Women only have so long. Is it men’s fault we cannot understand ourselves and our role in this day and age? That we remain ignorant to anything except our desire to live a comfortable life? Our role models sold to us have created a self-centred society that has far surpassed what is necessary. The dissolution of our ego’s and our ‘identities’ is something men and women find impossible.

The tribesman knew their role. The boys were raised by up to 3 males. The women knew their role and did not question it( for right or wrong). Modern civilisation has caused this imbalance and our inability to defer gratification or our Hollywood sold ‘stories’ we all want to live are wrong.

Education needs to address this issue somehow. A subject which teaches media literacy in schools would be a start. To learn to like ourselves and live with less. To get on with things and let go of these false dreams of an easy life…… As Joseph Campbell would put it ‘ we must let go of the life we have planned and accept the one that is waiting for us…’. The moment is all we have…. Societys pressures are only growing. Our gender roles and expectations are growing further apart. Women are not spared in this process unfortunately…… I understand how having this ‘dream’ can destroy a persons life – few marriages survive this because the goalposts prevent them from doing so…..

Very sad state of affairs we live in. Some win. Many will lose…… Those that possess the help needed to understand themselves and are blessed with the right ‘tools’ to participate will certainly have the advantage.

Men have it good. Until they conform and possibly find themselves lost without an identity beyond the restrictions of all the shit that doesn’t matter….. The rat race is toxic.

Free your mind, change your plans, but do not sell your value and perceived notions of what’s possible to a flawed social paradigm, endemic in a consumerist culture based on infinite growth.

Less is more.

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Nate November 28, 2012 at 02:31

Great article, and very informative. Just like to say though… While it’s true that after a certain age, most people are unlikely to change themselves fundamentally, it’s not impossible. I’m living proof.

Growing up I had a terrible childhood and it warped my perceptions and values at very early age. I struggled with crippling depression for nearly 2 decades. I was your standard “fuck life” ‘slacker’ type into my late 20′s. I started to slowly wake up, and this year (I’m 33 now) I became fully awake and am doing everything I can to straighten my fucked up life out.

It’s slow going because the mess I made is so huge, but the efforts I am making are working. And that’s the key word EFFORT. I think most of people who have screwed their lives up ‘want’ to change, but they are unwilling to put forth the effort to do so. It took years for us to screw things up so badly, so it may take years to fully undo the damage. But, if you are sincere about fixing the problem, you can fix things much more quickly than you think possible.

If you really want to change, forgive yourself for your past failures, take full responsibility for yourself, and decide what it is you want in life and build a concrete life plan of how to get there and follow through like mad. Next, identify the things and people in your life who are holding you back, and then separate yourself COMPLETELY from them.

So fellow men, take these words of encouragement from a former loser, DON’T GIVE UP. As long as you are still breathing, you can build yourself into a better person, and in turn begin to build your life into something closer to your ideal. I promise you, if you follow the basic advice above, and always remember that you have value as a man, regardless of what our fucked up society has told you, you can make it right again.

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truthteller December 24, 2012 at 19:41

Look you bunch of douchebags- here is the simple TRUTH.

Most men b!tching about women LOOK LIKE ASS. They are LAZY, dont go to the gym to work out to get Alpha Male Pecs and prefer to drink beer while scratching their fat asses. ok, not entirely fair, there is the other option of the hipster douchebag that seems to be in the race of who can weigh the least- awesome guys that weigh less than my baby sister. cool.

REALLY? you expect women to be turned on by that? YOU Cant get the hot young model top prize, which is what you complainers seem to be sh!tting your pants about on this website, looking like a 10 pound weakling or a stuffed fatso. The Alpha dog got the gal you were drooling over and now you are bitter and flailing around this site blaming “feminazis” Good, he got her, he deserved to have her- he worked on his image, his mind and his charm- he made an effort- what have you done?

Look in the freaking mirror- THAT IS WHY YOU ARE NOT GETTIN ANY. not because of those big bad feminists, not because women hate men, not because they have jobs and arent chained to a stove cooking for your fat ass, not because they apparently cant have children past the age of 35 because of “egg freshness”- what a joke, and not because they have daddy issues. IT’S BECAUSE YOU DONT ATTRACT THEM. it’s you a$$hole – why the would they want to reproduce with YOU? ask yourself that question. seriously. mate selection, at least a large portion of it has to do with ATTRACTION and intellectual stimulation (hopefully). the reason that hot scholar/athlete has girls dripping all over him is because he MADE AN EFFORT to improve himself and by golly it shows! Now, imagine this (if you have any imagination left in your peabrain), if LOTS OF GUYS LOOKED LIKE THAT and made an effort, Mr. wonderful would have more competition and guess what, you might nab the bimbo prize that has eluded you and made you a bitter old man crone.

there, now that you know why- go to the gym and do something about it- stop b!tching about how so and so bad boy takes all the girls and girls hate nice guys and gals are feminazis- NO. no no no no- that’s not it. its because bad boy looks hot and guess what- alot of those so called “bad boys” arent even jerks, they are just NOT LAZY like YOU. improve yourself , stop b!tching like a little b!tch.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 7
Max December 31, 2012 at 00:34

I agree with this totally. Human biology hasn’t changed. Medical technology can’t keep us young yet. 20 is still 20. 30 30, etc..

Time does speed up. 1 year for a 35 year old feels like 3-6 months as a 25 year old. During this time, your looks (and health) are going downhill, no question. 20-30 they hold the same.

I’m a 33 year old man. It was yesterday I didn’t have wrinkles, now I can feel them growing daily, with grey hairs, and painful knees.

Getting older is like getting sick, one day you’re fine, then the next you’re getting old. The body just decides.

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S January 4, 2013 at 04:42

Both true and untrue.

Most men would love to date a Salma Hayek, she’s nearly 50 and beautiful. Why place a boundary on the age 25? by the age of 29 a woman must choose one of her male callers or “friends” to marry

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Anonymous January 22, 2013 at 09:21

This just took away all my hope…im 25….my life is a mess…been trying hard to change life patterns…change things…trying to have optimism that things can change i could have a good life. lol. sooo what its pretty much pointless now? Ive had that notion in my head for a long time…that its too late. im stuck like this forever. just gotta accept it. but then i got the hope i was wrong and things can change…i can change … life can change…but im gonna be 26 this year so guess not..

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Mark March 10, 2013 at 19:51

A friend on Facebook shared this article. It appears that the article is attempting to move the clock back not to 1952 but 1882. It appears that some of what I heard during the election comes from ideas espoused in this article. Woman need to give up hope if they do not settle down, procreate and get married by 25. This is just absurd and quite dangerous. I am no expert but I do pay attention to politics. If you remove hope, opportunity and growth in young people, (especially women) then they can be easily controlled. I am 51 and yes its hard to meet someone but that is life as an adult. Its hard enough to make it in this world without attitudes like this that want to put woman “In their place”. I am surprised at this day and age that everyone commenting falls inline and agrees with this. One commenter even said that woman should not go to college since its a waste of time. I can see why a candidate like Todd Aiken was nominated by the Right. He REALLY believes what he says and apparently so does the writer and most of the folks commenting. Thank you for letting me disagree. I hope my low comment rating will not discourage people to read it or respond. I love our 1st Amendment!!

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Elle March 11, 2013 at 07:56

I can’t believe so many people are agreeing with this article. I’ve never read such BS in my life!
I spent my 20′s finishing my formal education, touring the country as a professional actress, traveling the world, & establishing a career I love. I had a number of love affairs but had no interest in a conventional lifestyle (house in the suburbs, successful husband, driving the kids to soccer practice in a minivan, etc.) And I knew very few men I felt were ready for that, either.
I never felt like an “established” woman until I was at least 30, & I love – & have never regretted – that I spent my earlier years doing things that those leading more middle-of-the-road lifestyles seldom get to do. I enjoy my independence & am proud of the fact that I’ve never had to depend on anyone else to support me.
I have no desire for all the headaches that come with home ownership; I enjoy living in a nice apartment. I like children but have been very satisfied to dote on my nieces & nephews, rather than having my own. (Pets don’t talk back, & I never have to worry about finding a babysitter when I want to go out!) I am free to pick up & go anytime an opportunity presents itself.
The author of this article insinuates that the only desireable qualities a female can have are youth, a pretty face, a tight body, & starry-eyed optimism. Education is only wasted unless the young woman is seeking her “MRS” degree! And if she chooses to do something other than marriage & motherhood her entire life is pointless. Once she has matured, wizened up, developed a few curves, & gained some real life experience she may as well just hang it up.
I meet men all the time who are divorcing the wives they married in their 20′s because they realize they were too young to know what they really wanted back then (which only proves that many people really DO change after the age of 25.) They are tired of being married to boring, shallow women, who have no life or interests beyond their homes, children, & mundane jobs. These men are thrilled to meet an attractive, intelligent 40-something woman with an interesting career & an active lifestyle, who reads, does things to feed her mind, & actually has something worthwhile to say.
The fact that I have remained single has nothing to do with lack of opportunities to get married. I’ve had my fair share of offers. It is because I have yet to find a man I feel is the right match for me longterm. I refuse to “settle” out of a need for security or fear of being alone. It’s not that I’m super picky or searching for someone wildly successful. I am simply looking for my soul mate; & until I find him – if I find him – I am very content to continue to leading a very happy & fulfilling single life. I don’t believe you seek a mate to make you happy; you seek a mate to share the happiness you already have.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6
Mallarde April 2, 2013 at 19:23

Elle, what most women (and perhaps yourself) that are young and attractive miss is that life changes in a big way when your looks fade. I have known many women that possessed extraordinary beauty. They lived in a different world. Doors opened for them. People treated them differently.

Being alone and having the world at your feet might seem great. This is the illusion that drives many single women to stay single, I believe. But this existence is fleeting. In the old days, women knew that these years would be their best years and should be spent forming a bond with their husband and starting a family.

Now women fritter these years away exploring Borneo and sleeping with strange men. Please do not expect us to applaud this behavior. If you are an actress still, do you really believe that you can do this beyond your prime years? How many women pull this off?

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becka May 6, 2013 at 16:57

What a load of rubbish im 27 and im not a nieve young person nor am I wasting my life lol. sounds like jelousy this article. how silly to pigeon hole young people veerry ignorant indeed, I though older people were suppose to be the wise ones? o dear.

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L May 7, 2013 at 16:48

I just turned 25. This article sounds like it is written by a bitter male still living in the 1950s. These days, 25 is a lot younger than it was 20 or even 10 years ago. Furthermore, age is just a number. I meet 18 year old girls that look about my same age or older. Shakira is 36 and looks about 20. She just had a baby with a man 10 years younger I see lots of women in their mid 30s everyday who look young. W.F. Price needs to wake up. Halle Berry is almost 47 and is pregnant. Do I realize pregnancy at a younger age is safer? Yes, but that doesn’t mean doors are closed for women in their late 30s and 40s and even 50s. Personally, I think very late 20s and early 30s is a good time to get married. Most marriages that start in the early 20s end in divorce. With that being said, I have friends who had kids out of wedlock in their teens and early 20s. They are miserable and never went to college and not with the fathers of their babies. I only know one who married the baby’s father and she looks pretty miserable as well. Everybody who got married young is no longer with their partner either. The thing is our brains aren’t even fully developed until we are in our mid-20s. If we get married in our teens or early 20s, we might choose a partner we feel lust for, but is not stable and not a good match. With that being said, I married at 23 and I wish I would have waited until at least my late 20s to meet somebody. I have lots of problems with my husband who is a little older than me because he, himself was not financially ready for marriage and still too attached to guy friends. If I would have waited until I was professionally employed and met somebody else who was also professionally employed, I would be a lot happier now.

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Opus May 8, 2013 at 02:18

Translation from Hamsterees into Modern English: ‘I am feeling Hypergamous and want an Alpha Male’ – well well, doesn’t every woman. The problem, L, is that not only the higher you go the fewer Alpha Males that are avialable, but when you are that little bit older, and that little bit smarter (even though we know that 45 is the new 20) if that unknown guy you seek after, has a somewhat different view and really would prefer a young woman of twenty, rather than someone who has been round the blocks a few times, then all the studying and degrees in the world are going to avail nowt.

If (reading this) you feel that I am being cruel, then as an antidote and to cheer yourself up, may I suggest you read the endless resumees of forty-something women, available to peruse on OKCupid – women desparate for, seemingly, any man and equally seemingly unlikely to have find even one. I would avoid them all like the plague – for if after thirty years on the marriage market they have yet to find anyone, such that they have to resort to the Bargain Basement Store of Love [OKCupid] then that suggests to me that either they are entirely undesirable or alternatively have frittered away every decent and half-decent opportunity that came their way. I have known women like that: Women too good for everyone and everything. You, at least, did not have to go through life, a woman ‘who ain’t been asked’.

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anonymous May 8, 2013 at 15:50

To the ladies commenting on this thread, let me offer a slightly difference perspective:

Look, you are allowed to be anything you want to be, do anything you want to do, fuck anyone you want to fuck, and generally live your life however you want to live it. As women living in the West today, you are more free than ANY generation or nationality of woman who ever existed before you. You have total and complete CHOICE in how you conduct your life.

What you do not have is freedom from biology. Freedom from human nature. Freedom from consequence. Choices are not all created equal; like those “Choose Your Own Adventure” books we read as kids, the decisions you make will determine the course of your life. The world does not shape itself around you, you are shaped to fit into the world. Your choices are the mechanism that drives this shaping process, but you have NO say in how that process works, or where it will leave you at the end of the day.

This article is telling you the truth. All things being equal, you are not more sexually attractive at 30 than you are at 21. You are not more fertile. You are not more likely to snag a high-status man, or a man who understands how to be a man. Your job does not make you more appealing to men. Exploring foreign countries or your personal sexuality does not make you a more complete person, or better suited to make a good choice in a mate later. So if your intentions are to marry, have children, and raise a family in a committed, loving relationship, you must make the choices that will steer your life in that direction. If you don’t want those things, then by all means, spend your twenties screwing boys in Tokyo hostels (although I wouldn’t recommend it, the STD rate is pretty high). Make that choice early and then own the consequences of your decisions.

You can’t have everything. You have to give something up. For women, it’s a husband and kids, or a titillating life alone. You’re going to have regrets. My mom chose family, and regrets not having seen a little of the world first. Her best friend chose to see the world and live the high life in NYC, and regrets never having children or being able to land a man. Both beautiful, talented women in their own rights, but they made their choices, and they live with the consequences.

This article is saying that we haven’t equipped young women with the knowledge or life skills to do that. I agree. So stop getting pissy, realize he’s not condemning those of you who have different priorities than landing a loving man and having children, and understand that we all have decisions to make in the manner in which we conduct our lives. You can bitch and whine and rail about how unfair it all is, and I agree – it sucks.

You still have to live with it.

(and for anybody who thinks men don’t have to make similar decisions, you’re fucking wrong. They have similar choices to make, just a different timeline on which to make them, and with different, equally painful, consequences)

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BB May 10, 2013 at 22:00

Also, not every woman who doesn’t marry young is out screwing guys or exploring sexuality or trying to be a career woman. Their reasons for not marrying are also not always related to that they are dating the wrong guys or rejecting the ones who want to settle down. There are other factors, such as families, money, etc. Stop stereotyping. At the same time, not every married woman is living an isolated life at home with no education besides watching Lifetime. I did more traveling after marriage and I am in grad school. You can have it all. No hate. As for the women who are not married, don’t be in any rush. Nice things do come to those who wait. I have a cousin who had an awful marriage at 18 and a baby and she found love again in her early 30s and have been married for 10 years now. I also have a friend who didn’t meet her husband until 33 and didn’t get married until 34. She looks young and her husband is very handsome.

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Liv May 11, 2013 at 12:06

What about the fact that women can have their eggs frozen now? A French study also found no difference between the fertility rate of women under 25 and those ages 26–30. With that being said, even a woman over 35 has over a 60 percent chance of conceiving in one year and over 80 percent within 4 years. Not to mention, worst case scenario, there are fertility drugs and a million other things. Finally, with the economy being the way it is, it doesn’t make sense to have kids in your early 20s unless you are financially stable, which most average people are not. Also, sorry author of this article, not all women are into older guys. I also find that men age more than women. For example, men get more gray hair, have beer guts, and go bald. Its also not as easy for a man to dye his hair than it is for a woman. Look at all the journalists on tv, on average the women look younger.

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Vesna May 26, 2013 at 00:51

What is so great about this article. So judgmental and stereotyping. People in general do what they want with their life. It’s about choices and consequences. There always will be people who will choose some different style of life. It’s their choice. You judge them by your own standards and beliefs, while they live by theirs. Or do you want everyone would do the same thing and live the same life, like the robots? I know childless women who look happier than these who have miserable children, or husband who is plain psychopath.
And it’s not only career or marriage it’s everything is kind of pointless to start after 25. Going back to the college or starting to take dance classes for example. And there is nothing you can do about this cause it’s biology. Still it may be someone’s choice. After all nobody told us what to do with this life.

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John July 3, 2013 at 11:49

Let me tell ya a well know secret what most women on POF and other dating sites are: 1. Meal hunters. 2. Sluts. 3. Married but cheating. 4. ADD sufferers who never go on dates and are probably married. 5. Scared to go out but want a man. They never go out.

I’m a very good looking guy, but I rarely go on dates and these woman are to be avoided at all times. I’ve met only women who sleep around and they just wanted to fuck me and move on. They are always looking for a HUGE PRIZE which would be much more valuable than them. These women are DELUSIONAL. Avoid them at all costs.

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je ne regret rien July 21, 2013 at 18:52

“his article is telling you the truth. All things being equal, you are not more sexually attractive at 30 than you are at 21. You are not more fertile. You are not more likely to snag a high-status man, or a man who understands how to be a man. Your job does not make you more appealing to men. Exploring foreign countries or your personal sexuality does not make you a more complete person, or better suited to make a good choice in a mate later. So if your intentions are to marry, have children, and raise a family in a committed, loving relationship, you must make the choices that will steer your life in that direction. If you don’t want those things, then by all means, spend your twenties screwing boys in Tokyo hostels (although I wouldn’t recommend it, the STD rate is pretty high). Make that choice early and then own the consequences of your decisions.’”

They’re not saying they think they’re free of biology. Nobody is. They are just saying they don’t care past a certain point. They know they are not what they were in their 20s, but they like themselves, at least some men are pleasantly attracted, and they have lots of other interests and friends anyway. That’s all they’re saying. I don’t recall anything about Tokyo hostels or STDs in Elle’s brief autobio. Yes, STDs are a drag for anyone, married or single. eeww.

Years ago I heard on a talk show (host was male & macho) that the people that generally clocked in on the stats as the happiest, were older women who had never been married. I wasn’t really happy to hear this, as I believe and in marriage and consider it, done the right way, to be sacred. But nevertheless, single life has its own blessings. That’s all the girls are saying. We know (deep down) all about biology. Can’t miss it.
Anyway, I have some friends I have to meet up with, so adios.

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James Wilson August 2, 2013 at 23:44

I love the this and agree with it . Really this is almost 100% spot on and admire the writer of the article for putting it out there . The one thing though that is absolutely not true is that Better men are not more powerful men . That could also be why ,you have to marry for love because that is what will stand if not the test of time ,certainly longer than material things and material comforts …

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DontStereotype August 8, 2013 at 13:09

Women who don’t want families and mates are an insignificant minority? Where do you get your data? What evidence do you have to support this? And how many women are we talking about here to qualify the number as insignificant? Attitudes like this are the reason women THINK they have to get married or have families. They’re treated like aliens if they say they feel otherwise. I, for one, am an attractive young woman in my late 20s and I have never wanted a family. I know there are many other women out there who feel the same way. We just get accosted with hate and guilt if we say so.

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jonny August 11, 2013 at 06:35

If you think about it, the institution of Marriage is a lot like the institution of Slavery. It’s the obligation. When you force, coerce, pressure or compel someone against their will (when you lack the capacity to make a logical case to persuade), that’s Slavery.

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Denise August 14, 2013 at 10:59

This is a good thought-provoking article. We should be trying to get our youth to understand that we cannot always “have it all” and time can run out. We can only accomplish so much in one lifetime and must pick and choose our battles. I think that most of us would have made wiser decisions had we understood this concept better during our 20′s.

It makes sense that the dating pool is bigger when people are in their 20′s. But…I know people who waited to get married and have children and are doing just fine. I worked with a woman who got married for the first time at 50 (due to her career) and is very happy. She has many stepchildren and grandchildren. Despite her husband being very financially successful she still works because she enjoys it and is good at her job.

It is interesting how many topics were brought up on account of this article. There seems to be many jaded men who have responded and think the answer is living it up and looking for a “young thang” when they get older. Also, I’ve read more than one post that advocates women getting married and having kids at 16. That is really messed up in this day and age for multiple reasons. That reality show on MTV should be enough to show what a bad idea that is.

The truth is dating and meeting the “one” is hard work. But it should be…because it should be for the right reasons. Yes…we are biological creatures. And yes…life is short. But we are also supposed to be evolving and getting smarter. We are so fortunate to live in an age and society in which we can get married and have children because we want to…not because we have to. Choose wisely.

My dad always encouraged me to get a college degree and a good job so I could fend for myself rather than depend on a man to support me. That is not to say that he did not want me to get married or be some kind of ultra-feminist. He just wanted to make sure I would survive the harsh and unpredictable realities of life. What if my husband dies or becomes disabled or ill? And…why should a man be expected to carry all the financial burden?

I met my husband in my late 20′s and we have been married for 12 years. Why did I marry him aside of the usual chemistry? His ambition/dedication…he was studying hard to have a good solid career even though at the time he was quite poor. Our generation…he is only a couple years older than me so our views of the world are similar. His morals and values…we both were raised in a similar way. Common interests…we both enjoyed hobbies and traveling and wanted to see some of the world before having a family. Most importantly…his kindness and compassion. What if I would not have met him? Would I have settled for any guy of any age that was interested? Heck no.

My advice for men: stop whining. If you want a good woman be a good man. Be kind and faithful. Do not take her for granted. Stick to women your own age who you have things in common with. Accept aging as a natural part of life.

My advice for women: don’t be a gold-digger. Love a man for who he is and see his potential. Be kind and faithful. Get an education and know how to support yourself. It’s okay to not work while raising kids…just know it may be temporary. Accept aging as a natural part of life.

Peace Out

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Just a girl August 15, 2013 at 20:55

As a young woman, I do agree that women have a brief amount of time (20s) to land a husband and begin a family. I also agree that men have a longer amount of time to accomplish this and that they can continue to reproduce and land ideal spouses longer than women can.

However, I have to disagree with the the thought that men in their 40s are somehow still in their prime. The only way I would really consider marrying a 40 yr old man, is if I was 35+. Many of my friends would agree with this, as well. I appreciate the male physique and I will appreciate my husband’s body as he ages. But why would a 25 yr old subject herself to a 40 yr old’s body, when she is at the right age (and pretty much the only age) to date men in their physical prime (20s – early 30s). The only 20-somethings looking to date 40-something men are of two varieties: 1) gold diggers (will bed any man who is loaded) and 2) daddy-issues (molested, needs older man’s validation). neither of these women make good spouses/mothers. And the majority of men out there do not have the money or looks to land a woman that much younger.

I would never want to marry and start a family with a man in his 40s, because by the time the kid is a legal adult, he’ll be pushing 60 and may be dead before then. I want someone with the youth and vitality to keep up with our kids (and me!) and can actually still relate to our kids.

I would also wonder why a guy in his 40s (or pushing 40) is unmarried. Is he too rigid? is he screwed up in the head?Unless he’s very wealthy, he would have little to offer a much younger woman. And for all the men that argue that it’s shallow – well, you’re equally shallow in desiring a young, hot woman. That’s just the way God created the sexes and our desires (men want prettiness and women want security).

So I agree with you, but only to a certain extent. For the average – non-millionaire men out there, you need to get married before your late 30s, if you want to find a decent woman and start a family – it will get harder if you wait (just like it gets harder for women who wait – not impossible, but harder for all). And I highly doubt you’re going to improve much from 35 to 45 in looks or personality.

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Just a girl August 15, 2013 at 21:04

I also think it’s a little weird reading the comments by older men on this blog stating that they want younger women. I get you value attractiveness and fertility, but some of these men clearly are not interested in settling down to procreate. Some of these guys were betas in their 20s and think that their hard work should pay off now in their 30s and 40s and they deserve 20 something women. This is odd to me. Some of my friends and classmates are good girls, but a lot of them are not. A lot are spoilt, whiney, princesses that are demanding and skanky. If you thought dating 20 something girls was hard when you were young, not much has changed. I have a lot of guy friends who are dating slightly older girls who are less b*tchy and drama. just fyi.

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Anna September 14, 2013 at 22:06

@Andie – you are absolutely PATHETIC.

You went to school to find a husband. You think that a mother who works isn’t a real mother except in the biological sense. You think that a woman who doesn’t want kids is not a real woman.

I will address these one by one. Shame on you for taking a spot in the MBA program from someone who wasn’t just shopping for a husband. I thought women stopped doing that shit in the 1950s.

As for a REAL mother not having a job outside of mothering, bullshit. If I ever have children, I fully plan to stick with my career. I don’t want my daughters growing up thinking that all they will ever be capable of doing is cooking and cleaning, and I don’t want my sons thinking that someday their wives will be their maids/slaves. Your statement is just plain stupid. Is a father not a real father because he’s out providing for the family rather than spending all day at home? I want to be a role model for my children, not a freaking babysitter who shows them that that’s the only thing I’m capable of doing.

And not every woman wants children, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. It doesn’t make her less of a woman. I think YOU are less of a woman for saying something like that. The world is fucking overpopulated, and there are way too many people here, ruining the planet. People are so busy popping out babies that they don’t even see that there may not be a world for their grandchildren to grow up in – and yes, that is a VERY REAL possibility.

You are sad that you only had 3 children – I am sad that you had children at all. The world would have been better off without your stupidity and antiquated ideas being passed down.

For ANY woman in her late 20s/early 30s reading all of this bullshit – here’s how it really is. If you want children, yes, you should keep time in mind. But do NOT for a second believe that you have to give up your career, or that if you’re still single at 26 you’re screwed. It’s best to try to have children before 35, not 25. And studies have shown that working mothers are happier and more fulfilled than stay at home moms, because they didn’t give up their entire identities when they had children.

Plenty of women don’t find the one until their late 20s/early 30s and still end up having everything they wanted. And even women who get married at 35 or later – they often have to settle for a little less and may have trouble conceiving, but not always. Some end up having it all, and the others end up adopting and loving their adopted kids just as much as they would their birth kids.

And I know I already said this, but going to school for an MRS degree – that is just so fucking pathetic that I have to comment on it again. What a loser. I feel sorry for your kids.

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Anna September 16, 2013 at 06:29

P.S. People CAN and DO change after 25. People switch career paths, change their outlooks on life, turn their outlooks around, et cetera.

And I consider myself at 28 far superior to myself at 20 in every way. Back then, I was overweight and had no confidence. Today, I haven’t aged a day, I’ve lost a bunch of weight, and I have a body that most 20 year olds would die for. Seriously – people mistake me for a teenager all the time. So I still have my looks, and I have the wisdom of a few extra years piled on there too. I’m way more of a catch than I was right out of college. And I haven’t racked up a bunch of sexual partners either – I’m still a virgin actually, still waiting for the love of my life.

There’s all this bullshit about how fertility declines throughout her 20s and 30s. While this is true, it is true to a MINIMAL extent. A woman has a 1/1500 chance of having a Down’s syndrome baby at 20, and a 1/1000 chance at 30. We’re talking, out of 3,000 babies, just ONE more baby among 30 year old mothers that have Down’s syndrome. The miscarriage risk is 9.5% for a 20 year old and 10% for a 29 year old. The difference between these numbers are absolutely negligible. It’s age 35 when fertility starts to take a drastic drop, and pregnancies become complicated. Stop scaring young girls and telling them they should hurry hurry hurry and try to find a husband before it’s too late, when all this is really going to do is encourage them to settle down with the wrong guy and eventually get divorced. There is a time limit for women who want kids without complications, but it’s almost a whole freaking decade more than what you seem to think.

I know who I am and what I want in life and am comfortable in my own skin. The guys I dated before 25 were abusive jerks, and I am SO grateful to be single today instead of married to one of them – I’d probably be going through a divorce now or within a couple of years.

Guys who care more about youthful appearances than anything else are shallow, vapid losers anyway, and no smart, self-respecting woman would want this kind of a guy.

I don’t understand this stupid article at all, or why it’s even on this site. If this site is all about men’s rights, why is it appropriate to have an article that tells women how to live their lives? Talk all you want about men not having equal rights in terms of abortion, child custody, etc. – I actually AGREE that this is unfair. But who the hell are you to tell young women that if they’re not with their future husband by 25, they’re unlikely to have a happy life?

You do realize that the ridiculous lifestyle choice you’re advocating – for women to settle for whoever they’re with in their early 20s – is just going to make divorce more likely, right? People often don’t even know who they are in their early 20s. The brain generally is not fully developed until about 25, meaning people are ACTUALLY BETTER OFF if they meet “the one” after this age. So a couple does what YOU say and gets married right out of college, has a couple of kids, and then in their late 20s realize that they’ve grown up and grown apart, and decide to get a divorce. The mother gets full custody, and the father is left screwed and bitter. You do realize that that’s what your idiotic “plan” for young women would very often lead to, right?

Bottom line – it’s pretty damn arrogant of you to tell anyone how they should be living their lives. And you’re not even right either, which may actually be the sad part. You’re acting like you know everything, when in reality it’s uninformed bullshit that lacks real rational thought.

And JeremiahMRA is a loser. He says women shouldn’t be going to college but should just marry and have babies as teenagers. In reality, this way, every woman would end up having 10 kids, and the planet would go to hell within 1-2 generations, so your grandchildren will be screwed. I certainly hope Jeremiah doesn’t have kids and pass on his utter stupidity. To be such a fucking retard and say that women who are probably 20 times smarter than he is have no business going to college would be kind of funny if it wasn’t so fucking pathetic.

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Mel September 16, 2013 at 19:31

All of this is treating women’s “fertility” as if it is the most important aspect of our/your lives. A woman’s fertility is only a small part of what she is, and what she can contribute. The world is full of babies; it’s not necessary that everyone rush to try to have kids.

I had to read most of these comments because I was fascinated with the opinions of some of these guys. Their opinions of women are so channeled and dictated by the worst part of our culture.

Because I had all my children after age 40, I would always tell people, “Why waste your best-looking years raising kids? Wait ’til your 40 and have had your fill of being wined and dined.”

I think most of these men have had a hard time of it in their relationships, because their bitterness shows.

I have to make a point about females aging; we are held to much higher standards than men, that’s why you’re saying women age poorly, but you don’t seem to realize it. Men age just as poorly, (or worse) but the bar is so low for middle-age male attractiveness that men have themselves convinced that they age better. Not so.

I always use this example. We all know what the Beatles looked like in their early photographs-cherubic, sweet. And we watched them turn 30, 35, 40, and their looks changed. NO ONE ever mentioned this, ever, how George looks so old, etc. Had they been women, we would have expected them to look like their early photos forever.

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Shark September 22, 2013 at 05:49

“Girls we love for what they are; young men for what they promise to be” – Goethe.

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Anna September 28, 2013 at 21:00

“Working mothers are not mothers in any sense other than biological. The mother is the person who is with the child, day in and day out, doing the work of mothering.”

Really? The way I see it, a working mother is leading by example, showing her kids that a woman can do much more than just stay home and eat bon bons all day. Be a stay at home mom if you want, but you don’t have the right to criticize other women’s choices. And I’m betting you wouldn’t say a working father isn’t a real father, right? If he’s out there working, he’s not spending that time with his kids. But to you, the double standard is very valid. Way to go – you’ve just set back the clock 50 years!

But look who I’m talking to – the woman who rants on and on incoherently and idiotically about scented candles (that made NO sense by the way – were you high when you wrote it?)

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Teri September 29, 2013 at 14:52

Do you not see how gauche and obscene it is that you are USING a young girl’s death to make some ridiculous point? You use a few words to make it seem like you care that she’s dead, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re opportunistically profiting from it. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And I agree 100% with her speech. At 22, had she lived, she would have had all the time in the world to do whatever she wanted. There are people these days preparing for medical school in their 30s, for crying out loud. There are women having healthy babies in their 40s. And I’m sure these people are perfectly intelligent and know what to do with their own lives, without some blowhard stranger telling them they’re “wasting time.”

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Teri September 30, 2013 at 02:04

“This article is telling you the truth. All things being equal, you are not more sexually attractive at 30 than you are at 21. You are not more fertile. You are not more likely to snag a high-status man, or a man who understands how to be a man. Your job does not make you more appealing to men. Exploring foreign countries or your personal sexuality does not make you a more complete person, or better suited to make a good choice in a mate later. So if your intentions are to marry, have children, and raise a family in a committed, loving relationship, you must make the choices that will steer your life in that direction. If you don’t want those things, then by all means, spend your twenties screwing boys in Tokyo hostels (although I wouldn’t recommend it, the STD rate is pretty high). Make that choice early and then own the consequences of your decisions.”

What an ignorant point of view. First of all, the article is not telling the truth, it’s exaggerating the truth. It’s making it seem like women who are not attached by 25 are doomed to be alone forever.

As for not being more attractive at 30 than at 21, speak for yourself! I look better at 29 than I did at 21 by FAR. As for not being more fertile, this is true, but a man who loves a woman for HER and not what she can give him (selfless love, which is the only kind of REAL love) will overlook this and not see a woman as any less for it. It is the selfish and superficial ones that will value appearance and fertility over personality. I have a friend who was rendered infertile at 21 because she had all her equipment removed in a fight with ovarian cancer. She met her boyfriend soon after – he loves her, and doesn’t see her as any less of a woman. THAT’s a real man right there, not the douches who would say “bye” once they find out she can’t give THEM what they want.

And it’s ignorant to imply that any woman who isn’t married, domesticated, and popping out babies by 25 is out gallivanting and screwing guys around the world. Some of us have no interest whatsoever in casual sex, we just don’t find the right guy in college. Because we actually go to college to…um…STUDY, not find a husband. And then after that, we run into guys as shallow as some of the men on this site are and have no interest in them. And I will tell you…any self-respecting, intelligent woman who WANTS a husband and kids…would rather end up 50 and childless than be married to a man like so many on this site, who see her as a commodity rather than a person.

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Teri September 30, 2013 at 02:06

I am curious – how many of the men on this site, who view women as commodities, actually are in loving relationships? How many of you actually have wives or girlfriends?

You can lie if you want, whatever, but I’m guessing that for most of you, you’re looking forward to a lifetime of masturbation if you maintain this attitude about women.

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lee October 1, 2013 at 12:33

I for one personally don’t think any of this age nonsence means anything. There’s too many situations at play. Every person or relationship is completely different. Society wants us to believe that all our ducks should be in a row by a certain age. Someone always wants wat another person has. Eg u have long hair an u wished it were short while the person wit short hair wished it was longer. The point is to make the best of your lot in life. No marriage den kids on the map for you den I suggest u adopt an experience the joys of motherhood. You don’t have to miss out on anythin in life. You jus need to be corageous about the things of life.

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Teri October 5, 2013 at 07:40

Another response to a lot of these posts – if a woman CHOOSES not to have children, she is CHILDFREE, not CHILDLESS.

And believe it or not, there are women who choose not to have children who are happy and content with their lives.

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dangerouscurves October 16, 2013 at 16:47

I believe that its never too late to do just about anything you want with notable exceptions that depend on your youth like having kids or competing in the Olympics. I don’t live my life thinking about that, I just do what I plan to do. The fact of the matter is, you always have your whole life ahead of you. That 50-year-old you see in public could live another 50 years while that 18-year-old could get hit by a bus tomorrow. Life is rarely a neat line from here to there for anyone, and I must say thank G-d for that. Sounds boring.

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dangerouscurves October 16, 2013 at 16:50

@Teri I think non-parent is a much better term than childfree or childless. I love kids, so to say I’m free of them isn’t entirely true (nieces, nephews) and to say I’m less of them implies that somehow I’m inferior for not raising any. The fact of the matter is I’m simply not a parent.

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ascotton October 25, 2013 at 10:19

The fundamental flaw in your piece is that are you positing that what Marina Keenan was referring to when she said anything is possible and that college grads have plenty of time was marriage/mating.

She was talking about personal and professional goals. She was not talking about getting married at all.

But I guess if you go by the assumption that all women care about is marriage and babies, then I guess it would be an easy assumption/mistake to make.

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Julianne October 31, 2013 at 04:41

So old fashioned..so unable to accept the modern world. The type of men here are so desperate for women to “know their place”, for women to be subservient, controlled, seek nothing for themselves, all no doubt out of massive insecurity on men’s behalf. Whether these old fashioned dudes like it or not, a woman CAN choose whatever life she wants. (in the western world at least). Life isn’t black and white. There are many poor 25 year old women trapped with no money, no education and no life outside their miserable little home with screaming children and an obnoxious useless controlling husband. They have nowhere to go and no means of getting out because they have no money and no qualifications, which is what the old dudes on this site want for women. These women would give their eye teeth to be single, financially independent and do whatever they like. The world is made up of all sorts and all types – it’s called diversity. Get used to it. By the way NEWSFLASH: women don’t fancy old men any more than men fancy old women. An ordinary guy in his mid to late 30s will find it extremely difficult to get an attractive woman in her 20s. Carry on deluding yourself if you like. Stop whinging old men. You’re not in control anymore. Women can do whatever the hell they like. if you don’t like it, go live in Afghanistan.

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Louise October 31, 2013 at 20:47

As a woman in my early 20s, I wouldn’t consider a husband older than 35. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble. Men in their 40s and older who believe they can land a much younger woman are kidding themselves. Unless you’re George Clooney, or very rich, you’ve got no chance. 30-35 is when a ‘normal’ man should be looking for marriage if he wants a younger woman.

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Cassie November 15, 2013 at 12:55

When you say your sister is at an age where she probably will never get married, how old is that? 28, 29? I hate to break it to you, but women in their late 20s, or even 30s or older, have found love all through time, and this isn’t going to change.

Women should not be forced to focus all their energy into finding husbands when they’re not ready for them. Your advice is ridiculous and full of ignorance.

In fact, women who find their guys after 25 have more of a chance of actually STAYING with those guys. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that even if they find each other very, very young, as long as they wait until they’re at least 25 to get married, it won’t affect their chance of divorcing. But this is not the case – many people meet someone who ends up not really being right for them when they’re young, and just have a really hard time letting go of that person. This is just human nature. So they end up getting married to the person who was right for them at 22, even if it’s starting to become apparent that they’re no longer right for one another. They end up divorcing. Alternatively, they could wait until they’re in the latter half of their 20s to meet someone WHEN THEY ALREADY KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY WANT. In the second situation, they would be more likely to stay together for the rest of their lives.

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W.F. Price November 15, 2013 at 13:44

When you say your sister is at an age where she probably will never get married, how old is that? 28, 29? I hate to break it to you, but women in their late 20s, or even 30s or older, have found love all through time, and this isn’t going to change.

-Cassie

She’s in her late 30s. We’re only a year apart. I think she made up her mind about avoiding marriage and motherhood a long time ago. Hey, it’s her choice, and I respect it, but it isn’t the choice most women make.

Hesiod November 18, 2013 at 01:10

This article makes a couple of good points, but mostly comes off as pessimistic naval-gazing. I hate to break it to our author, but the reason people “don’t change after 25″ is strictly because they stop believing in their own potential and/or fail to harness it. Cervantes didn’t write Don Quixote until he was in his seventies and it’s his only novel. Personally, I think our author is feeling insecure about her own shortcomings and wishes to suggest that this is a universal social phenomenon because, well, misery loves company.

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Cassie November 18, 2013 at 08:52

I agree with Hesiod. I know one person who was a high school dropout at 25, got his act together, and at 35 was a doctor. Telling people, male or female, that they can’t change after 25 not only unfairly pigeonholes them but it isn’t even true.

As for your sister, it’s one thing to say that she’s opted out of the whole marriage/family thing and that’s why it’s probably not going to happen for her. But the way you word it makes it seem that the reason it is probably not going to happen is due to her age, not any choice that she made – implying that any 38 year old woman out there who is single should just accept that she probably always will be. Which is crap. 38 year old women get married and end up having healthy kids all the time.

And as I said, people who find each other at 25 or older have a much better chance of staying together. When I was 22, I thought I knew everything and was a fully mature adult – this includes thinking that I knew the type of guy I wanted to marry. At 29, I thank God that I didn’t end up marrying either of my main prospects before I turned 25 – one now cheats on his wife on a regular basis, and the other was and likely always will be a disrespectful jerk with no morals or values whatsoever. I’m much better off single than if I had let either of those relationships become more than what they were.

Also, I happen to be walking proof that women can be more attractive pushing 30 than at 22. I get much more male attention than I did back then for sure. I also don’t buy the idea of having to wait several years to get married – if any relationship of mine wasn’t heading in that direction from the beginning, I would end it. I have no understanding of people who are together for years and years before getting married. I think if two people meet and have the connection that they should, it shouldn’t take more than a year or two to get married, unless there are special circumstances at play.

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Teri November 18, 2013 at 09:50

Towgunner said about women in their late 20s: “Of course, the good stock is taken early. They’re the leftovers. That’s why they need oprah and nurse jackie to make them feel good like a heroin addict.”

So basically, if a woman is not married by 25, she’s leftovers. It isn’t possible that she was focusing on finishing her education, or bettering herself as an individual so she would have more to bring to a marriage than some young bimbo with nothing more to offer than a hot body. It’s absolutely inconceivable that she didn’t just want to get married but wanted a LASTING marriage, so she decided to wait until she had herself figured out before trying to get someone to put a ring on it. It’s impossible that she simply wasn’t ready to commit the rest of her life to someone, or that she has just never met a quality guy (even though the majority of American men are chauvinistic losers like the ones on this site). No WAY could she just have been in one or two terrible relationships and just not wanted to marry those guys. Or that she had medical problems that made it impossible for her to be in a relationship.

NOOO…if a woman is single at 27, she’s leftovers that no one else wanted – that’s the only possible explanation.

BTW – Adriana Lima, Petra Nemcova, Malin Akerman, Katherine Heigl, Aishwarya Rai, Claudia Schiffer – none of these women were married when they turned 27. Actually almost any famous beautiful woman that you look up, at 27, was either single or in a marriage that did not end up lasting (IMO it’s worse to have been in a marriage that would ultimately end rather than being single in your late 20s, but the viewpoint here seems to be skewed to the point where marriage is the be-all-end-all of life for women, regardless of whether it’s actually a successful marriage). I seriously doubt that any of these women would give you the time of day, so if they’re “leftovers,” what does that make you?

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Lisa Pretty 37 yrs old, won't go for a 50 yr old man November 25, 2013 at 11:31

Men who are against women having it all are deluded because women do have it all nowadays. we are eternally living in a materialistic world and women at the age of 33-45 yrs of age are saying . ” I am so glad i have not fucked my life up and had kids” and ” at least we are not over 55 or 65 or 70 yrs old yet, we are STILL young”, so this is a pique whereby things have changed and the women remain ever youthful, fulfilling her needs before the misogynist, arrogant mans who thinks his needs are before hers and she is subordinate to him. Well that is why we work, to choose our freedom and entitlements and free ourselves from poverty and kids running around by our ankles and losing our looks rapidly due to breeding like a neanderthal monkey, which we aren’t, we are more civilized, use birth control, retain our looks well into our late forties, marry goodlooking guys a few years younger or older than us and become an equal, (equal-ism not necessarily feminism have taken their tolls on married life) Females increasing in numbers are largely educated, middle class, eloquent and have figures and faces that resemble young adolescents because we can afford this and even when we work, spend money on ourselves and have a family, we deserve this, it is our entitlement as women work so hard and have to come home to a family and husband and do more work. These rarities in this democratic society are our just entitlements. Besides how many men from their late thirties to late forties age even more rapidly than women of the same age due to excesses and debauchery. Men need to realize that things have changed and become more expensive so women have to supply an income and good out and work AND keep a house together as well as men and that is called modern life, huge food bills, electricity, rates, mortgages etc. Men age as rapidly as women, their is nothing immune to prevent men from ageing as quickly as women, we are all equal, we are all the same. But many men are not considered worthy or equal to women due to inferior looks, intelligence and alcohol problems, psychological issues with woman of course, many on here who harbor those issues that women are intuitive about when finding a decent guy to become their partner.

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Teri November 25, 2013 at 23:12

I agree with Lisa.

I think it’s really funny that people are ignoring the fact that men age too. People say stupid shit like “men age like wine, women age like milk” when this isn’t true at all. It’s just that the bar has been set so low for middle-aged male attractiveness that almost any 40-something male is considered “handsome” and “attractive” while 40-something women have to try to look like they’re in their 20s to be attractive.

Look at Kelsey Grammer on Frasier – the man is overweight, noticeably balding, and people still talk about how handsome he is on the show. If a woman were in that condition at THAT same age, she wouldn’t even be considered worthy of being on TV. Gray hair is another example – it’s the exact same thing in women as it is in men, yet somehow in women it’s taboo while it’s expected in men. Look at Robert Redford and Jack Nicholson – they have ravaged, grandpa-looking faces, and people still call them devastatingly handsome, but if a woman allows her face to look that old? Forget it.

Among older men and women, the average woman might look older and more used BECAUSE of the stress that childbirth has put on her body multiple times. But subtract that out, and if anything, women age BETTER than men. I know several women in their 40s who never had children, and they look amazing for their ages.

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Zhivka November 28, 2013 at 04:16

“But these girls are not going to change fundamentally, and in their early 20s are at the peak of their beauty while still retaining an innocent charm.”

OK, let’s make sure no one missed the implication here (which very well may be true): the crucial traits that matter to men seeking a wife are not a) a good looking woman, mind you, but a woman in the peak of her beauty, and b) God forbid that she loses that ‘innocent charm’/sense of enwowment and has a realistic, no-bull, practical, even (gasp!) cynical outlook on life.

And further, according to marriage minded men presumably,

” Nothing about their looks or personality is going to make them more appealing at 30 than at 22, and the men available to them are not going to get any better, either.”

To each their own, but at 22, I was a slightly overweight, more than slightly under-slept, neurotic senior with unkempt hair (keratin was not in mainstream use, nor could I ever have afforded it), face with stress related break-outs and dressing style that consisted of JC Penney rack jeans, K-Mart sweat pants, and t-shirts.

At 30 I was taking care of an infant, but by 32, when I caught up with sleep, achieved my goal weight, had my skin (naturally) clear, my hair treated, and my closet populated with items that accentuated my slender and fit physique, I looked like a knock out. In addition to my looks, my personality was (to me) magnitudes of order more appealing. I was more mature, more confident, more selfless, more witty… all in all a person I would have picked first in a heart beat. That acne-faced 22 year old wouldn’t have gone anywhere past the radar of pity and perhaps hope that she grows into something more agreeable to a relationship. But my personal preferences are irrelevant. This is about what men want.

Ceteris paribus then, can we at least say that younger = prettier? I’ll grant that in theory, but in practical life, this hypothesis is highly non-applicable for the reasons given above (stressed-out and inexperienced with prioritizing and stress-management vs. getting a grip on life).

But to get back to my point, if what it takes to get a husband is to make sure we’re at our (theoretical) peak of beauty – which to obtain in practical life at that age takes serious marriage-minded prioritizing and motivation – and that our minds are still too innocent to contrive a cynical thought, let alone verbalize it in front of our target groom, dare I ask the women of this world/culture, what’s in it in this marriage deal for us?

So we get married walking on these egg shells to a man who bought the goods (that would be us) that are now as the clock continues to tick mercilessly subjected to the tides of physical deterioration that comes with age and general life’s let downs that infuse our brains with a more cautious/cynical outlook. Might the groom consider trading us in for an upgrade in a half a decade’s worth of time as we are now more a lackluster burden than a vessel of prettiness tickling his fancies? Most surely he might. The keys of marriage hold no powers they once had in today’s world of cheap (no, make that, free) sex offered by desperate women with lowered standards disguised as ‘women’s sexual liberation’ (LOL – I have more respect for the prostitutes who charge by the hour than the delusional fools of this relatively new sexual trend, but no matter…).

And for the key holders (that would again be us to be sure, because the binds of marriage no longer apply to most women and men that have few choices, but only to the women portion of this population subset), I pose another question to their conscience: if what it takes to keep a man at your side are the ‘binds’ of marriage (you know, the ones you were able to place around him years ago when you were that innocent princess-fairy from all the boys’ dreams), aren’t you glad you’ve got the beast caged? You get to show it to all your other beast masters and beast masters wanna-be’s. What thrill and splendor… Or is it?

Answer sincerely, I will in no way judge. I’d merely like to understand the motivations of people who strategize to marry. What is so important about the marriage, especially the kind that is based on thought-out plans and timing of advertisement of optimal goods, then as marriage evolves faithfully training the caged beast to acquire the taste of the older, wrinklier and more cynical you?

Aren’t more enlightened male specimens available? I myself am holding out for those, says a single mom, age 36 at the time of this writing.

If more women adopt my stand, I shall be hopeful that our higher standards (than to cater to Peter Pans enthralled with princess-fairy fantasies) will serve as a natural ‘training’ of whatever male beasts roam the planet currently to acquire a deeper understanding of women. Let us not be afraid of their choices, no matter what they end up being. But most of all, let’s not compromise our independence, our financial self-reliance, our natural process of maturation (with all the cynicism that comes along), in the name of hypnotizing some man-child into buying us a diamond ring and proposing to be our husband. The locks to that cage have long been removed (courtesy of sexual revolution), and the keys we think we hold are worthless: he will leave us once the fairy charm wears off making no apologies. With our growth thus arrested to fit the innocent fairy mold he desired in the years preceding the marriage, we are now bitter maidens lost in the storm of world currents we know little about navigating.

Don’t be that sad statistic. Strategize for your independence. Allow a man to be attracted to that side of you – the fighter through life, the princess of a castle YOU made with your bare hands, or with the help of friends that YOU made with your acts of generosity and kindness. Do not define your alone-ness by your marriage certificate possession. Define it by the people you affect as you live your life.

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JJ January 6, 2014 at 10:15

It seems to me a woman would be stupid to marry before 30. If a man really is only interested in her when she’s young, fertile, beautiful, and if he does marry her and they do have children…where will he be in 10 years when she is no longer the lovely young thing she once was? Do you really want to be a 30 something single mom rejected by a man who married you for your looks, knocked you up and is now rejecting you for younger fare? Because if this article and its comments are to be believed, a woman isn’t worth much if she isn’t young and lovely…and you surely won’t be forever.

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Dirtnapper January 11, 2014 at 00:54

What a crock. You miss the point of the essay, that our mindset is that we’re stuck doing the same redundant crap until we die. If we alter the mindset, buckle down, commit to something, and really TRY then we can alter our course. That’s what she was saying, not “Everyone is a unique snowflake that can make anything happen if they really believe in it!”

You then go on to make broad-stroke generalizations about everyone on the face of the planet. Most of the people I know smoke and play games. They also bust their asses trying to change their stars, going to school, reading, working a shitty job to pay for an education so they can get the job they want.

I’m 27. I come from an extremely dysfunctional home where I had the hell kicked out of me on a regular basis. It left me with some major flaws in my person that I only recently recognized after several failures and fuck-ups. Had to step back, reexamine things, and figure out why I was doing things I didn’t understand. Now I’m taking control of my life, going back to church after a decade hiatus, trying to mend certain relationships, and learning to program because at the forefront of every field that matters exists technology.

People my age want advice? Here’s some I’ve figured out.

Do what makes you happy, not what distracts you from being sad.
Don’t flee pain, there’s always a lesson in it and it’s usually one you desperately need to learn.
There are temporary and lasting things. Sometimes the temporary things blow up and distract you from the lasting. It’s important to prioritize and remember those priorities when shit hits the fan, or you end up with a heap of regret.
Fucking commit to something and try your damnedest to make it real. Whether it’s a relationship or a career or something spiritual, don’t spend your life in a limbo because you’ll fucking hate it. Doesn’t matter how old you are, just TRY. Do all you can with today because tomorrow is never a guarantee.

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W.F. Price January 11, 2014 at 10:15

@Dirtnapper

I’m afraid you missed the point of her essay; not me.

She was an ivy league student telling people not to buckle down so much, and not to commit so much. She was telling them that this was not necessary, because they are so young, and they can put it off.

ivyleaguefemalefuture wife January 13, 2014 at 23:17

I should not get involved but here I go. I will have both an amazing career and a loving Christian husband to marry at 30. Why? God gives me what I want. I will be wealthy and have a place in heaven with Christ. Don’t believe what others say because they are bitter. I entered an ivy league school at 25. Marriage is coming two. I have faith. Faith us all you need. Everything else is BS. At 50 I will look into my professional children with their new husbands and wives. Don’t let people tell you that you can’t have what you want. The people who have accomplished so much and had nothing to start with didn’t listen to negativity. God has created you to be amazing. Jesus Christ died for you so you can have the Christian life and have your hearts desires. Yes a woman is the suitable helper for her husband. Yes she should be a virgin. But you have the choice. Choose Christ and all the promises. Don’t listen to bitter old men. Find the right guy that loves you. Life is good for those who know Christ.

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ivyleaguefemalefuture wife January 13, 2014 at 23:22

My post was written at midnight. And I did not proofread so I have run one and fragments, not to mention syntax errors. Everything I wrote is truth.

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Daphne West January 29, 2014 at 10:57

I beg your collective pardons, but at 16 I WAS an emotional idiot. I don’t think that I was sufficiently mature to raise a child prior to age 21. That wouldn’t really matter since I’m an omega female – a really old one. You guys should realize that college in a major that actually teaches you a real world skill – mine was electrical engineering – is good for omega females and helps the beta provider in a tangible way. We omega females are destined to be old maids. In the days of Andy Hardy we’d be a burden on the beta provider until our eventual death – unable to make sufficient income and all. College allows us to be self supporting and not be a burden on other family members – assuming any would take us in – until our very old age, assuming we get there. Yes, we are destined to be childless alone insane cat ladies as you say, but nature dealt us omega females that hand by the cruelty of genetics, not by any choice of ours. And no, I never had an offer, not even from an omega male.

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David March 12, 2014 at 22:23

The first two-thirds of comments are worth reading. The last third were obviously written by bitter woman who cannot deal with the age issue. Sorry ladies, it is biological. Mother nature and evolution made men desire what they do, so there is no sense it getting mad at us.

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JaneM April 8, 2014 at 15:52

Really David, you are the one who sounds bitter.

There are many options in life. Many choices, so much richness within each one of us. This business of reducing women to their most basic functions betrays a narrow-minded outlook on life. “Biological”? So we’re just biology? We are so much more than that, although some people don’t realize it. We were put on this earth to achieve great things, not to merely be slaves to our biology.

Ever heard of the saying “become the person you want to marry”? I see men who are obsessed with women and therefore angry with them because they are expecting them to fulfill their needs. Fulfill your own needs and become the best you and you will the attract the right woman.

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Stacey April 9, 2014 at 11:31

Hi David,

Let me reiterate to your deluded little bubble world, i don’t mean to break your delusion or bubble but fact is, men age just as quickly as women and women under 50 and over 30 are still young and in the prime of their lives. An attractive, athletic and slightly plump or slender 38 year old woman who has men from the ages of 29-45 after her on a dating website who have money and good careers. I don’t know what planet you are on David but beautiful women with no lines on their faces, plump cheeks and beauty who can compete with ease with majority of 20 year olds. women who have not had kids and who have stunning figures and women who have had kids and have got the money to make themselves look good again through gym and good skin care regimes. We shall not admit we are old as we are still young. I hate to break it to ya’ David but you are the one who sounds embittered and jealous of attractive women over the age of 25 who have not lost their looks and do not care about your little “man rule”. Again, ageing is a common occurrence for men and women aged 55 and over. To treat a young thirty something or forty something like they are 70 years old is frankly darling, ridiculous. I get the impression you are no looker or maybe a balding or has a small manhood or some inadequacy either some personality disorder or some narcissist who enjoys gaining pain from women who are confident in their looks and know they are beautiful. You sound like you are jealous of woman’s looks. How can a woman be ageing when she is over 30/40, still stunning with no lines on her face and looks as good as she did when she was 25. Well you have the issues here David, you see… this world has changed and left you limbo in the 1950′s where you belong.

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Juliet April 11, 2014 at 13:03

I still think Johnny Depp has rage issues and other personal issues about being an old dinosaur at 50 yrs of age and probably going through a midlife crisis as well. Why do these oldies take their issues out on people in their late twenties, thirties and forties, THESE ARE CLEARLY YOUNG AGES NOT 50 +.
Often men and women in their 50′s and 60′s will take their rage and issues out on younger people because these younger people under 50 and over 30 know secretly that they are old over 50 and will pretend to say that they are young so they will not be bullied by these oldies into saying that people over fifty are young too, but people over 50 need to accept that they are the ones getting on in age. So they tell they youngsters who are under 50 that they are getting old to stop themselves from feeling excluded from society but meanwhile they cannot compete with a thirty something or forty something pretty lady or hot guy who is younger.

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Serene April 12, 2014 at 14:31

I think Johnny is hot, he can age really well, he looks good, has this youthful look aka Brad Pitt and both have stunning girlfriend too. I love Johnny’s charisma and sex appeal he exudes on screen, however I think he still dresses like a teenager, he is still incredibly sexy. These type of people I do not aspire to be, I would not choose to be an ageing blow up barbie doll 60 yrs+ with fake boob implants and massive,silicone enhanced, curled lips with cheek implants that give the first impression of one cautious glance comparable to a pig with an apple in its mouth and straw frazzled, over-processed hair, and no career but instead living off former husbands money from previous divorce proceeding. Second case scenario is that I would not choose to be the painfully thin/semi-anorexic self-tan shriveled, trust fund female whose whole likelihood is emanating from some bohemian talent-less wannabee who proudly takes her place as an upper class crusty, air-headed, illiterate darling but has the perma-tan skin, weathered, wrinkled , over tanned face and straw like, thin wispy, dirty blonde hair, who looks rough for a “29″ year old, supposing she is more than likely in her forties after having damaged her skin in her reckless youth going on untold, extravagant Caribbean islands with mummy and daddy dearest instead of working like the rest of us. She is 29yrs old with the face of a 45 year old.

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Msc Gary April 26, 2014 at 17:35

Your assumptions are not true, at least for men.
What is your definition of not changing after 25
years old. If it means growing & living a full
life without a women that is not true. I have several
friends going back to medical school at 37 years
old because of the downturn in the economy. The
divorce rate in California is over 75% now, (google it)
and the divorce laws are against men I don’t know one
single male who is a professional or has money
who is even considering getting married, or having
kids. Men are appreciating assets & women are
depreciating assets (looks). Therefore both of us change.
Christians have the same divorce rate as everybody else,
Men who don’t get married have wonderful lives
lots of friends, travel all over the world, exciting exotic
super model foreign women that they don’t have to marry.
Their financial wealth grows, they are learning, doing
things, classes, sking the alps, can have any woman
they want & are the happiest most fulfilled men
on earth. Married men are slave drone automatons
human wallets. & ATM machines on the corporate
plantation their whole lives. Ungrateful, financial
predatory, divorce prone women (women file for 70%
of all divorces) that think they are entitled to
live support because they have a vagina, but yet are
considered equal & think they are equal. They won’t
cook or do housework because this is slave work
but won’t relieve men from their slave roles of
having to work. Why don’t we both relieve each
other of our slave gender roles & not get married.
Jesus was single & did not have children, isn’t he
the one to set the best example for men???
(by a Christian Masculinist).

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Msc Gary April 26, 2014 at 18:02

Women can get men after 30, it’s just their chance
of getting a man with money, fame or power become
zero at that age, their chances are gone forever.
Men retain their looks longer than women, and
by staying single he will have money to keep his looks
even longer, so with money & looks has increased
opportunities over women. The value of men who
stay single & get older is because they have a chance
to accumulate more money. (Business & investments)
Men don’t care about a women’s money in a relationship
but her looks & youth, so the value of men on the
sexual market place goes up & the value if women
goes down. If a man does not get married when
he gets older he is not an old fool. Men who get
married at any age are FOOLS. There is no
benefit for a man to get married. Those nicer
looking older women you talk about above,
there is the guy at the car wash, shoe shine
stand, & fast food restaurant for them, these
guys will always be available. I love married
men because they can shine my shoes, someone
has to do it?? Married men, loser men, & couger
bars are for older women & single mothers.
I went to a Lakers game & I could see it in the
seats, the cheapest to expensive seats. The super
models were in the senate seats. Truth.

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Msc Gary April 26, 2014 at 18:32

Internet Dating sites are not the measure of a
woman’s worth value. Only desperate people
are on there. A 90 year old 400 pound anteater
would get attention from the site. What are
the quality of the results. Why do women dress
with tight clothes, few of them showing their bodies
off if it isn’t about beauty, on there profiles.
Most women are just into shaming I noticed above.
(Google, female shaming tactics). No discussion
of the facts. The problem with shaming is that
it is not true, & who wants to deal with a dishonest
person. Shaming is lieing to win an argument.

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Tom May 4, 2014 at 05:58

Men have to stick up for the ageing, old mummy cows and have to put down beautiful women who have not ruined their figures over the age of 25. Men why do you stick up for women who are the breeders when we already happen to have a massive, ongoing, burgeoning, overpopulation. Why are the mummies so jealous of women their age who have not ruined their figures and looks by choosing to remain childfree !??
Why do some people have to continually be jealous of beautiful women who have not had kids and who still look as young, fresh and innocent as an 18 year old . These women are in their mid to late twenties, thirties and forties. They have not ruined their perky breasts, not a line on their faces and really do have wealthy suitors at their beck and call, they are justifiably independent and not some sleazy waitress or secretary who has to be dependent on a rich man of sorts for their status and the man of a gullible sort who will soon see through her when she starts asking for a monthly allowance and expensive gifts and in due course dump her. I do not see beauty in youth, I see beauty in good genes and perfect skin along with amazing breasts and exquisite figure, she knows how to dress accordingly and has the maturity, a smart woman, be independent and play sports.

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Tate May 5, 2014 at 11:04

Wealthy men will go for any women, whether she is over 25 or under 25, not only street sweepers or men who have no value to offer. This is true in moneyed relationships. As long as the women looks beautiful and good, looks younger than her years or is youthful and stunning and prettier than the younger women. A younger woman under 25yrs of age who will be deceptive and fake and take the man’s money and ask for a monthly allowance and laugh behind the older man’s back all the way to the bank. The younger men will see this and think of men old enough to be the girlfriend’s daddy as “one foot in the grave men” and laugh at these older men behind their back.

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Mandy May 22, 2014 at 12:05

Yes…..men definitely hate us. . I’m not critiquing you….I just wonder. I’m young, really attractive female that has given so much love and awesomeness to men, and they only wanted to hate and shit on me even more…..so I don’t really understand how someone actually ends up at an alter marrying one….I mean, they hate us right? Also, maybe you should look up “feminism”….you said you are not feminist, but feminism is basically just taking a sociological perspective on gender, which you have done when you acknowledge that men simply hate us and want us to die torturous and humiliating deaths. Perhaps “The Gender Knot” by Alan G. Johnson would be right up your alley. Many people have erroneous connotations to the word Feminism….it’s silly really. Stop it.

Men’s hatred of women is humanities first misapprehension. The last persons comment is true…”much like a bitch dog the bitch is always trying to dominate to prove that they aren’t a bitch” (men being the bitch). Men have made themselves the little bitch over and over by hating and torturing women and then congratulating themselves for it.

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Anonymous May 22, 2014 at 17:47

“Men are appreciating assets & women are
depreciating assets (looks).”

“Women can get men after 30, it’s just their chance
of getting a man with money, fame or power become
zero at that age, their chances are gone forever.
Men retain their looks longer than women”

Sorry, but you’re living in a fantasy world MscGary. If you really need to believe these things to feel better and remain in denial about your own decline, do so, but it’s pretty sad. The truth is that men age too, and since women are no longer helpless and needing to rely on men for money, men’s looks are becoming more and more important. A 35 year old man cannot compete with a 25 year old in most cases.

It’s good that you don’t want to get married…because no sane woman will ever want to marry someone like you. Enjoy your ride to the grave ALONE with NO ONE to care about you.

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Doomed. June 22, 2014 at 18:56

I grew up under these conditions. My mom married a slightly older man, had several kids by her early twenties and then went to pursue her degree only after I started college.

She regrets it. She regrets that her body was ruined by childbirth so early. She regrets she didn’t have more time to enjoy her youth before being labeled a “mother” the rest of her life. She regrets that she brought life into the world before learning how to live her own. Now she is hitting menopause, her kids are out of the house, and she realizes she has never had the time to discover her own interests and joys besides kids and husband.

We no longer reside in a time where the general population lives up to the age of forty and a girl in her mid-teens is seen as an adult.
I’m 25 and I have a 25 year old boyfriend who wants to move in with me, marry me, and takes me to church with his parents. I grew up poor and if I had chosen to marry a guy just for the sake of having a family by this age, as you suggest is only right for a female offspring to do, I would be as depressed as my mother is now feeling. My looks wasted, my body racked with stretch marks, my mind once in its sharpest state dulled by monotonous house work and child-rearing. Reading this article really feels like as a woman, especially a minority with non-european looks,I have nothing to look forward to.

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Doomed. June 22, 2014 at 19:01

Do any of you men have female children? At what age do YOU tell them they need to start using their hips to give a man children? Do you tell her to marry the poor guy who loves her or the rich man as old as you are looking for a trophy wife?

And what if your daughter is not pretty? What do you tell her when you look into her eyes at night before you tuck her in (if you do that)?

Lastly, we all age. Depending on your genetics and ethnicity decides how you age. I do not know where any of you live but in Fl at least men at 35-40 look nowhere near as good as the guys my own age. Unless he complements my personality and has a good career, having money does not make him a “catch”. This can also apply to the beautiful 25 year old woman you may crave at 40 who secretly hates you and cannot hold a conversation with you.

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Amphibian July 4, 2014 at 17:28

Doomed,

I am genuinely sorry that your mother felt this type of regret. I am not sure what specific number “several” means in this particular context in reference to children. How many children did she have by her early twenties? The man you said she married was “slightly” older. Was that 2-3 years or even more? Is it possible that your mother struggled with the idea of motherhood and how it affected her regardless of when she began?

Based upon what you shared is it safe to say that she started having kids in her mid-late teens in which case having several children by her early twenties would be very possible? If this is the case then I can certainly understand some degree of regret as this is very young to start having children especially by modern American standards (even in 1989 as well).

I don’t that the original post is in opposition to where you are coming from as your case seems to be pretty extreme. There is a difference between a teen starting to having several children and a college educated 22 year old making a decision to commit to a relationship that can lead to marriage and children down the road. From a natural childbirth standpoint, a woman can have three children, all in her twenties if she starts at age 24 or 25.

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sandy July 6, 2014 at 06:37

Men hate us and despise the fact that we choose looks and money before childbirth, suffering and religion (which is just some man made crap designed to reduce us to complacency and poor motherhood)and if that means abortions and contraception or sterilization then all good. I will abort the fetes under 2 months to maintain my looks. Men are jealous of women’s looks. This is true and when we mess up our looks having children then they no longer care or bully or are cruel to us. There is a mantra, be cruel to us and we will be cruel to you.

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Amphibian July 11, 2014 at 20:21

Sandy, maybe some men but not ALL.

How would men be jealous of a woman’s looks? Normally humans are jealous of those things they desire to have themselves. I like my “maleness,” how could I be jealous of a woman?

Some men may feel hurt and rejected by women, but jealous? I’m not so sure unless the man is homosexual.

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