IRL Gay Male Privilege

by W.F. Price on May 25, 2012

I noticed a story about a gay bar that has banned bachelorette parties in the news, and had to see what that was all about. According to the story, the bar banned the parties because gay marriage is still illegal…

Now, there’s always a chance that the guy was sincere about it, but how much political impact could such a move really have? Does the owner think the kind of straight women who have bachelorette parties at a gay bar are the kind of people who would oppose gay marriage?

I don’t think so. I may not be gay, but there are more than a few things that gay and straight men have in common, and one of them, I suspect, is a strong distaste for bachelorette parties. In fact, gay men probably hate them even more than straight men. What could be more obnoxious than a bunch of feral young women getting all musky over some male dancer and trying to make themselves the center of attention — in the middle of a gay bar?!

Here’s what the owner has to say:

“We love our straight girlfriends [Editor: yeah, sure you do...] coming in to celebrate one of the happiest days of their life,” says Abbey owner David Cooley. “But it’s also a slap in the face to my customers and my life that we can’t have that same celebration.”

Male go-go dancers are just one reason why one of America’s most popular gay bars has become a big draw for straight women’s bachelorette parties.

Each weekend, The Abbey hosts several dozen ladies night parties. But Cooley says, no more. Until marriage is legal for everyone, straight women can no longer celebrate their pending nuptials at his club.

I can only imagine the complaints from the gay male clientele Cooley must have had to deal with.

However, without some really good excuse, a bar probably couldn’t ban such parties without risking a lawsuit — it would be gender discrimination. If the bar were a mainly straight bar run by a straight guy, he’d be really hard pressed to come up with a reason, and might have to take measures that would harm the bottom line.

But the gay marriage justification is just perfect. Now, instead of saying “we don’t want these obnoxious ladies monopolizing our space,” the owner can instantly make the ban a civil rights crusade. Totally convenient.

I can’t really hold it against the bar’s owner or clients for invoking the gay card, but I reserve the right to grumble about the unfairness of it all.

{ 104 comments… read them below or add one }

DirkJohanson May 25, 2012 at 22:34

I once got thrown out of a lesbian bar as soon as I walked in. Its not just gay MALE privilege

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Eric May 25, 2012 at 23:00

Price;
That story reminds me of when our brilliant local government was trying to name King County for Martin Luther King retroactively. Of course, they were trying to pander to the black vote, but it turned out that William Rufus King, for whom the county was really named, was widely believed to have been gay! That caused a big firestorm.

I love it when these PC militants get caught in their own traps. Unfortunately, the guy who thought up the whole thing has a federal cabinet post now.

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andybob May 25, 2012 at 23:07

Despite what contrary ideas the media and popular culture want you to believe, gay men resent women barging into our spaces and using them to satisfy their own agendas. Where women go, drama follows. Like most straight men, most gay men just want to be left in peace.

My partner and I, never a fan of bars anyway, stopped going to gay bars about 10 years ago because they were full of women who were there to perve, gossip, stir up trouble and attention whore. Packs of rude bitches would point, giggle and whisper, making everyone uncomfortable and self-conscious. Women feel doubly entitled to be disrespectful to gay men, and they make no attempt to hide it when they get a few chick drinks in them.

Then there are the aggressive lesbians who waddle in to laugh at the fags and pick fights before collapsing in their own vomit. Oh yeah, we just love women invading our spaces. Even more telling is the fact that women still insist on going to gay bars knowing that their presence is not welcome. They don’t care. Gay men have no illusions about the nature of women.

A year ago, a gay bar in Melbourne, Australia, finally succeeded in banning women from their premises after years of litigation. It was a milestone. The owner of the Abbey is probably using gay marriage as an excuse to reclaim his bar as a woman-free zone due to pressure from the male patrons who are sick of being treated like exhibits in a zoo.

There are many gay man who oppose gay marriage because inviting the state into your relationship is just plain stupid. All of my gay friends feel the same way. Its a bullshit issue, promoted by lesbians and the divorce industry because it promises lots of $$$ via fees, child support and alimony. Gay men in favour of it are usually cake decorators or flower arrangers or somehow attatched to the billion dollar wedding industry.

I hope my straight brothers can look past whatever gripes they have against homosexuals and be inspired by what is essentially an effort to kick out annoying attention whores from what should be a male-only spaces. Watch closely. It will be lesbian feminists who oppose this most viciously and reveal, yet again, that GLBT is a woman’s organization with a few mangina gays sitting obediently in the back of the bus.

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W.F. Price May 25, 2012 at 23:08

Price;
That story reminds me of when our brilliant local government was trying to name King County for Martin Luther King retroactively. Of course, they were trying to pander to the black vote, but it turned out that William Rufus King, for whom the county was really named, was widely believed to have been gay! That caused a big firestorm.

I love it when these PC militants get caught in their own traps. Unfortunately, the guy who thought up the whole thing has a federal cabinet post now.

-Eric

Yeah, that was all pretty dumb, but Ron Sims is actually a pretty nice guy in person — I’ve met him before while walking on the lake. He also got screwed bad in a divorce back in the 80s, alienated from his daughter, etc. He’s pro-fathers’ rights, although I don’t know how much he can help us in his current post. Sometimes those guys just cut their losses and stop fighting it.

Nemo May 25, 2012 at 23:20

Didn’t some actor use the excuse that he wouldn’t marry his girlfriend until gay marriage was legal in all 50 states? Was it Brad Pitt?

I thought that was a clever way to be a weasel. It will be a long time before Utah caves in to liberal pressure.

I suppose that a Hollywood actor needs to toe the politically correct line. I’d rather see some famous guys tell it straight and say that it’s just plain crazy to marry in the USA, period.

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Eric May 25, 2012 at 23:21

“What could be more obnoxious than a bunch of feral young women getting all musky and making themselves the center of attention over some male dancer—in the middle of a gay bar?

This really shows how bad female narcissicism and egomania really are. For all their blather about how they ‘don’t need or want a man’ they can’t even see gay guys together without going into jealous spasms. Notice how they always go for the more ‘feminine’ member of a gay couple, too. Even though they always complain about men being ‘obsessed with sex’ it drives them crazy whenever an eligible man isn’t bowing to the all-powerful Pedestal Princess.

It’s the same whenever I ask a feminist why she should care if American men date foreign women, unless they consider foreign girls a threat to their sexuality. After all, the feminists always say that a ‘real man accepts them just as they are’ (whatever that means); so since we won’t, they shouldn’t mind if we look elsewhere, and they can find a nice mangina to hook up with. The Shaming Language that answers questions like these could fill volumes.

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W.F. Price May 25, 2012 at 23:30

Then there are the aggressive lesbians who waddle in to laugh at the fags and pick fights before collapsing in their own vomit.

-andybob

lol. I’d like to see some footage of that. My dad used to live above a lesbian bar when I was a kid back in the mid 80s, and I saw some really strange characters when I’d go visit. Incidentally, the bar eventually was converted into a nightclub (The Off Ramp) that became the nexus for the Seattle Grunge scene, so on weekends I would hang out before they opened for business and watch Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, etc., setting up the equipment before shows. I had kind of a “different” childhood…

There are many gay man who oppose gay marriage because inviting the state into your relationship is just plain stupid. All of my gay friends feel the same way. Its a bullshit issue, promoted by lesbians and the divorce industry because it promises lots of $$$ via fees, child support and alimony. Gay men in favour of it are usually cake decorators or flower arrangers or somehow attatched to the billion dollar wedding industry.

I am firmly of the opinion that getting the government involved in marriage in the first place was a terrible idea. I really can’t understand why in hell gay men would want to be part of that. You can handle all the other stuff, such as hospital visits, power of attorney, wills, etc., with legal contracts that are much safer than “marriage.”

I do admit to being a bit resentful over the push for gay marriage, because I see it as sort of a backhanded attempt to wreck what’s left of traditional straight marriage arrangements. To me, it just looks like a move to open the door even further to the government arbitrarily imposing its will upon the rest of us. Maybe supporters don’t see it that way, but it’s pretty clear to me.

However, I’m trying to maintain some partiality and recognize it for the partisan bullshit it is. Doesn’t make me feel much better about things, though.

Eric May 25, 2012 at 23:35

Price:

I never met Sims in person and didn’t know about his bad divorce. It does kind of reflect in his personality—I’ve always seen him as kind of a ‘married to his job’, realpolitik type moreso than a hardcore ideologue. He probably, if he believed it possible, would have pushed more for mens’ issues, but in a feminist police state like King County any male political figure who doesn’t openly hate himself for being a man is denounced as a right-wing extremist.

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Eric May 25, 2012 at 23:40

Andybob;

Worse than the cake decorators and flower arrangers are the so-called ‘Civil Rights Attorneys’ who are a huge motivator of the Gay Marriage movement. If gay marriage gets legalized, do you suppose a lot of these lawyers are suddenly going to become ‘specialists’ in gay divorce issues?

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Paul Murray May 26, 2012 at 00:01

Lest say a lesbian bar had female go-go dancers. Lets say a group of men tried to take their stag night there.

Can’t you see the degree to which these women’s behaviour (that is, the straight girls going to a gay male bar) reeks of entitlement?

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Brigadon May 26, 2012 at 00:06

Hey, as a straight man, I have a question for the Gay Guys out there…

Gay Bars are, pretty much, the last bastion of ‘men’. I see a lot of gay guys that are not even slightly effeminate, and most of them look at the ‘hyperqueer’, transvestite, transsexual, metrosexual grass-eater types just as strangely as straights do.

The question is, would Gay guys, in general, be offended at straight males hanging out in their spaces? A place to go have a beer without having to listen to ear-piercing shrieks and ‘woos’ every five seconds from boozed-up secretaries, fend off drunken girls (Hell, I’d MUCH rather fend off drunken guys… if they cannot take a polite ‘no thanks’ for an answer I don’t have to listen to half an hour of ranting about my penis size. If it gets rough, we can handle it in the time-honored, traditional masculine way) watch the bar TV without having it switched to ‘lifetime’ halfway through a game, and talk about shit like computers, sports, cars, politics, and the perfidery of women without having to ‘emotionally validate’ anyone.

I mean, if it is likely to be a problem, I don’t want to start a ruckus, but a place to go where women are not even allowed in the door sounds incredibly appealing.

The only ‘problems’ I have ever had with Gay dudes was that I seem to attract them an awful lot (Bearlike). That’s about the extent of my anti-gay bias… well, that and when they side with the feminists on shit that they really will never deal with, like fucked up women’s privileges.

When I was a young man, Bars were places for hanging out, meeting people, and ‘occasionally’ hooking up. Now they seem to be exclusively hookup joints.

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Brigadon May 26, 2012 at 00:07

@eric-

Good lord, I just realized how much money a fucking wedding planner could make if BOTH partners were ‘breadwinners’.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 00:25

Andybob;
“Then there are aggressive lesbians who waddle in and try to pick fights with the fags before collapsing in a pool of their own vomit.”

A relative of mine is transgendered and told me that kind of behavior this isn’t limited to lesbians, at least among transgenders. She told me that ‘G-girls’ (women who are naturally born as females) have no problem with lesbian-leaning transgenders, but are extremely hostile to ones who date and pursue men.

Examples like that show what really motivates feminist ‘tolerance.’ Anyone who doesn’t hate men is seen as enemy.

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LBK May 26, 2012 at 00:29

We need to bring back the days when even straight men could have male-only spaces.

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Einhard May 26, 2012 at 01:14

I’ve repeatedly noticed that gay men seem to be the happiest people around. Not having to spend their life trying to please women is probably the biggest reason.

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Pirran May 26, 2012 at 02:05

@LBK May 26, 2012 at 00:29
“We need to bring back the days when even straight men could have male-only spaces.”

How about setting up a bar for Gay Zoroastrian disabled veterans? You could then send out invites to men you trust (who could then propose others) and have a bouncer at the (public) door (those in the know would go round the side) to keep out those who didn’t qualify.

Might get round some of the problems of setting up a private club. On the other hand, might just be too much hassle….

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Johnycomelatley May 26, 2012 at 02:52

Gay Zoastrians disabled veterans? Aren’t they called Masons? I think the lodge is the last man bastion on the planet.

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walking in hell May 26, 2012 at 03:17

When I was young, I used to be very prejudiced and hateful against gay men.

As I had more personal experiences with American women, I could understand how a man could become gay.

In pre-internet times, men were more isolated. American men really did not know how bad they had it with respect to women. Many men I knew that only had experiences with American women, began to think they had a problem, simply because they were too sensitive, too cerebral, not alpha enough, not wealthy enough, etc. So many men went gay because they could not find true companionship among American women.

The physical appearance of American women did not help the situation. The thick bones, the cankles, the wide faces, the oversized heads, the thick fingers, the obesity problem, the tatoos, the fat arms, gave men a false impression of what females were supposed to look like. The normal man begin to think he had a problem because his friends were busting their balls to try to please these creatures and he was not attracted to them.

These days things are worse. American Women are so domineering, aggressive, and backstabbing, that any normal heterosexual man in a relationship with an American Woman is going to feel even more uncomfortable. The relationship will feel unnatural; like a kind of “forced homosexuality.” You as a man, will always feel you are being sodomized. It is no wonder with American women the way they are, the US has such a huge gay population.

I would bet that if someone did a study, they would find that in countries where feminism is rampant, homosexuality is also high. Not because the country is more liberal and tolerant, but because the women drove the men into homosexuality.

Given the choices of American men, I can hardly blame an American man for turning gay or experimenting with the gay lifestyle. But I would encourage them to do some traveling and try some women from different countries. They might very well find real femininity and real companionship in a foreign woman.

Now I have noticed a new trend. That if you are a single man and not interested in a woman when she hits on you, she calls you gay. This has happened to me a few times. I think an appropriate response is “yes honey, for you I am gay.”

I think it would be an excellent idea to have a man’s only coffee house as a tool to bring awareness to the MRM. The justification for excluding women could be that women are just too loud, drunk, disruptive, whorish, violent and a pose too much of a significant legal risk to be decent patrons. This could shine a bright light on the problems American men face.

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andybob May 26, 2012 at 03:57

“I do admit to being a bit resentful over the push for gay marriage, because I see it as sort of a backhanded attempt to wreck what’s left of traditional straight marriage arrangements. To me, it just looks like a move to open the door even further to the government arbitrarily imposing its will upon the rest of us.” Mr Price

Bingo. It looks that way because that is exactly what it is.

The push for gay marriage is a left-wing/feminist driven effort to undermine social institutions they associate with patriarchy, traditionalism, and all those other things that made Andrea Dworkin incontinent with rage. Gay marriage is a Trojan Horse intended to render traditional families irrelevant and meaningless. Those who push for it have agendas that have nothing to do with concern for my happiness. To think otherwise would be a mistake of epic stupidity.

I am the product of a happy traditional marriage, and am grateful for it. No-one benefits more from having a strong, upstanding father in their lives than a gay son. Because so many aspects of your life are going to be, let’s face it, abnormal, you need to have someone to show you that masculine traits are positive and ought to be embraced, nurtured celebrated and defended. Pride in your masculinity is a necessary step to being a healthy, functioning adult male.

So much of my motivation as an MRA comes from my disgust at how feminists deride, demonise and undermine masculinity. Masculinity is a creative, nurturing and constructive energy responsible for the very best that civilization has to offer. Feminists diminish masculinity because they can’t compete with it. They don’t even understand it. They think its about rape. Every breath of feminist rhetoric is saturated with their poisonous envy.

The family, the ultimate power base, has always been the enemy of Marxists, which is what all radical feminists are. Pushing for gay marriage (ditto same-sex parenting) are indeed attempts to, “open the door even further to the government arbitrarily imposing its will upon the rest of us.” Don’t under-estimate the extremes these masculinity-hating nihilists will go to step on the faces of men to grab power they have neither earnt, nor deserve.

Do gay men a favour and say no to gay marriage. You’ll get to piss off a man-hating lesbian into the bargain. Everybody who matters, wins.

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anthony May 26, 2012 at 04:06

In fact, gay men probably hate them even more than straight men.

You nailed it.

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Opus May 26, 2012 at 04:13

The only time I was ever asked by a woman to dance with her, was at a Gay Disco in D.C.. Why (I was with my girlfriend, having been driven their in a ancient ’55 Buick) women want to go to a place where (frankly) women cannot really be welcome, defeats me.

There is no doubt in my mind that being in a male only establishment can be very calming, because men tend to leave each other in peace but as soon as so much as one woman enters, problems and dramas of one sort or another begin to occur. It is a while since I was last in London Clubs (I mean places like the Atheneaum, The Reform, The RAC etc) but I am told they now let women in. If I want a woman I can get one somewhere else not far away! ;)

Two more great essays (above) by AndyBob by the way.

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dragnet May 26, 2012 at 04:21

@ andybob

Good posts from you. I weighed in on the gay issue awhile back at Roissy’s:

“What 12-year old boy would choose to be bullied, ridiculed and called a faggot? It’s just absurd on its face. Besides, homosexual mating behaviors have been observed in nearly 1500 species, many of them vertebrate mammals so I really don’t see why it’s all that weird that a small percentage of humans would also be born gay.

The truth is that women view ALL men in utilitarian terms. We are ALL expendable (except the alphas) for all they care. As far as I’m concerned, when it comes to gender relations gay & straight men would be on the same team if the homos hadn’t formed a (somewhat understandable but nonetheless disastrous) cultural alliance with institutional feminism.”

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/a-fathers-question/#comment-256317

As for gay marriage, I do see the value of including gays in a conservative social institution designed to impart stability and acceptance—I don’t think anyone should be deprived of that. And I have no problems with gays adopting as there are plenty of abandoned children who desperately need good homes.

But civil marriage is no longer a conservative institution—it is the tip of the spear of authoritarian feminist radicalism. The solution, in my view, isn’t necessarily to oppose gay marriage but to oppose gov’t involvement in marriage at all.

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anthony May 26, 2012 at 04:22

@Brigadon

In my experience, any male is welcome to a gay bar. Thing is, straights usually don’t go there because they are afraid of being “molested”, which is a silly idea, because “gay bar” doesn’t mean that everyone gives (unwanted) physical attention to anyone. If you don’t show interest in another guy, you can be pretty sure to be left in peace.

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Ode May 26, 2012 at 05:08

I noticed a story about a gay bar that has banned bachelorette parties in the news, and had to see what that was all about. According to the story, the bar banned the parties because gay marriage is still illegal…

In a free market capitalist based society a business would have the right to refuse service to a particular set of clientele without having to bend over backwards trying to explain why. It’s called property rights. The owner gets to call the shots.
Putting this aside there’s a very curious question that is begging for an answer. If an establishment, such as a bar, is in the business of trying to make a profit then why would it ever exclude paying customers? The only logical conclusion is that this type of clientele is of such low class there mere presence scares away the more respectable and also more profitable customers.

I guess that would be the Libertarian explanation.

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andybob May 26, 2012 at 05:30

@Eric,
You can count on it. Civil Rights attorneys are already drooling at the prospect of all that pink money they could get their grubby mits on. Lesbian icon, Melissa Etheridge has to fork out millions in alimony/child support beacuse her “marriage” ended in acrimonious divorce. So, some Hollywood attorney has already bought a yacht in the Bahamas. The vultures sized up their prey well – easy pickin’s

The icing on the hers-and-hers wedding cake had barely set and Ms Etheridge, big-mouthed, leftist, radfem ratbag is already being reamed by the very laws that people like her created and supported. Just desserts anyone? If you want gay marriage, then gay divorce will surely follow – der! Your relative is correct about the inclusiveness of feminist hatred of men – they hate all of us.

@Brigadon,
Many gay guys regard the mangina gays who side with women and their anti-male bigotry with deep suspicion. Unfortunately, there are lots of them. Their eagerness to score pussy points is pathetic and doesn’t make sense. Perhaps they don’t identify with men for some reason. That’s the fault of their upbringing – no dad and no brothers to inspire loyalty for their brethren.

Of course straight guys would be welcome at gay bars, if you can find one with a ‘No Women’ policy near you. I’ve said this before but it bears repeating. Women freak out when they see gay and straight men fraternizing. They don’t want us comparing notes. They like to see us divided because it helps to marginalize straight men that little bit more.

@Walking In Hell,
With all due respect, gay men do not choose to be gay. I don’t know why I was born gay while my twin brother was born straight, but neither do the thousands of scientists who have been studying this for years. Nobody knows, so I don’t waste time pondering it.

You point out a very important behaviour in women that I have heard numerous times. The way women gay-shame straight men in order to manipulate them. Your response of, “yes honey, for you I am gay” is brilliant. You have succeeded in totally disarming her because it was the last thing she expected to hear. An alternative would be to play the gay card – pretend that you are gay and ask why she would commit a ‘hate crime’ in front of so many witnesses. Watch her piss her bigotted, hypocritical panties.

Good opportunity to add this: your experience at the hands of feminist governance is one of the most harrowing I have ever read. I don’t know how you managed to get through it, but it is a remarkable achievement that you did. For what it is worth, your sharing it here is a powerful motivator for those of us who are resolved to fight the evil entities responsible for putting in place the mechanisms that allowed it to happen. Stay strong and know that your contributions are valuable and appreciated. Feminism has long outstayed its welcome. It’s time for men everywhere to give it the bum’s rush it deserves.

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Rmaxd May 26, 2012 at 06:04

Im not sure how divorce lawyers are going to have a bonanza, prosecuting a group which consists of WELL BELOW 1% of the population …

But then again gay marriage, just like immigration, liberalism etc., ie fake manufactured problems, are all designed to detract from the real problems the majority of men face …

“The 2000 U.S. Census Bureau found that homosexual couples constitute less than 1% of American households.”

In 2010 …

“Overall, the households with same-sex couples are far below 1% of total U.S. households, the Census Bureau said.

The revised figures are much closer to those compiled by the American Community Survey in its 2010 survey.”

Yep … you read that right … “same-sex couples are far below 1% of total U.S. households”

Gay couples cant even make up 1% of the population … breed yourself out of existence … turn gay, or lesbian, or feminist …

Gay Bars, a great legal loophole for men only areas though …

More men should open gay bars, gay cafes, gay restaurants, anything to give skanky american women the boot …

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 06:21

Andybob, great comments on this thread, as always.

I hope my straight brothers can look past whatever gripes they have against homosexuals and be inspired by what is essentially an effort to kick out annoying attention whores from what should be a male-only spaces.

At least you can fight this battle. Straight men can’t exclude women from anywhere, even from their locker rooms.

There’s a highly intelligent black woman who used to comment here as “Black and German” (I think) who lives in Washington, DC. She once wrote that the ideal candidate for a Federal government job is a disabled veteran black lesbian. Why? Because that person is a quadruple or quadruple plus minority.

I play the minority score game with my kids in an attempt to help them understand the social landscape. Gay white man? Single minority. Lesbian? Double minority. Black lesbian? Triple minority. etc. A good place to play is the DMV where if you see a white man behind the counter you know he must be disabled.

From a straight man’s perspective the gay bar fight is an interesting spectacle as it’s between two equally matched opponents. By that I mean straight women (single minority) versus gay men (also single minority). There’s no easy resolution to this conflict in the PC handbook.

Cynical? Maybe. Hate speech? Not intended that way. Realpolitik? Yup.

Anyway, it’s not news to you but the fight over gay bar territory looks like a death match due to the identity of the combatants.

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Donkey May 26, 2012 at 06:42

@walking in hell

Your hypothesis of the rise in same sex attraction due to rejection of modern women is an interesting one, but I don’t think that it is accurate.

From my limited readings of the psychological evidence the most probable cause of male same-sex attraction is due to a form of gender identity disorder at a very young age. A young man’s relationship with his father is very important even as a toddler.

In normal sexual development most young men don’t even consider women as sexual persons and or even sexual partners until early adolescence. By this time same-sex-attraction has already expressed itself, and the young boy’s response to it, and specifically his father’s role at that time in his life, will greatly determine the male’s reaction to that attraction. A rejection of the “modern woman” isn’t responsible for same sex attraction as much as early psychological developmental influences and a father’s relationship with his son in the early stages of puberty. This is because these basic understandings sexual identity are already built in before young men have any kind of courting relationship with young women.

Of course this is just my opinion based on my hobby research in psychology. I am under the impression many others in the MRA movement, like Dr. Elam or Dr. Tara, have more of a professional and working understanding of psychology.

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Joe May 26, 2012 at 06:51

Hire a couple big tough amazon butch lesbians with chips on their shoulders against straights, and put ‘em to work at the front door. That’ll scare the hell out of the straight bitches and they won’t go near the bar ever again.
That would be like throwing a wrench into the whole world of the snivel right attorneys and they would be too confused and afraid to take the case.
Put the gay/lesbian alliance to work for the benefit of men.

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 06:53

walking in hell
These days things are worse. American Women are so domineering, aggressive, and backstabbing, that any normal heterosexual man in a relationship with an American Woman is going to feel even more uncomfortable. The relationship will feel unnatural; like a kind of “forced homosexuality.”

The great Fred Reed calls it “heterosexual lesbianism .”

As I had more personal experiences with American women, I could understand how a man could become gay.

Men don’t “become” gay or choose to be gay. It’s a quirk of mammalian biology, not fully explained, but homosexuality is genetic and not volitional.

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FFP May 26, 2012 at 07:19

“Oh yeah, we just love women invading our spaces. ”

Oh, yea, andy bob? I’m no homophobe, but how about when you, gays, invade our hetero spaces? The pride parade, the fashion industry and all this political action and the disproportional media coverage that the 2% of the population get. Is that not invading the hetero space?

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FFP May 26, 2012 at 07:33

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walking in hell May 26, 2012 at 07:52

@andybob
@Donkey
@Charles Martel

“With all due respect, gay men do not choose to be gay.”

Once I worked at a famous company that employs a large number of gays. I had many coworkers that were gay males. I also lived in San Francisco. I was always curious as to what would make a man gay so I did my own informal surveys over the years. Each is case is different.

Yes, some men are born gay. But I had some male friends who did make the conscious choice to try men later in life; the reasons that they gave were under the “header” of not being successful and or satisfied with women. Many of these men had numerous relationships with women in their past.

All my relationships with women were unsuccessful and/or unsatisfying. But all it took was one three month trip overseas to make me realize I was not the one with the problem.

That being said, any enemy of the nanny/feminist/misandry state is a friend to me. So welcome, and nice to meet you.

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Huck Finn May 26, 2012 at 07:54

Thanks, AndyBob you have made some thoughtful comments full of insight and wisdom.

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 07:58

walking in hell
But I had some male friends who did make the conscious choice to try men later in life

If you say so. I’m not trying to be argumentative, that’s just way outside of anything I can imagine.

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walking in hell May 26, 2012 at 08:02

“Good opportunity to add this: your experience at the hands of feminist governance is one of the most harrowing I have ever read. I don’t know how you managed to get through it, but it is a remarkable achievement that you did. For what it is worth, your sharing it here is a powerful motivator for those of us who are resolved to fight the evil entities responsible for putting in place the mechanisms that allowed it to happen. Stay strong and know that your contributions are valuable and appreciated. Feminism has long outstayed its welcome. It’s time for men everywhere to give it the bum’s rush it deserves.”

Thanks, but I have not gotten through it. It is taking me down little by little every day. I really think I am doomed to die early of a heart attack, or by my own hand.

One of the reasons I spend time writing about my experience is to let men, especially young men, know what can really happen to them; and how their potential as a human being can be destroyed by making the decision to have children and marry in America or any Western country for that matter.

What happened to me and what is happening to men in America and the UK is so morally wrong, it violates the tenets of every major religion in the world and truly is a global human rights violation issue.

Yet, the Western world turns its back because so many men are in collusion against other men and the system is so ingrained on every level of society and men won’t speak up.

For me, I really don’t have anything to give anymore except to leave the world a record of my experiences; hopefully, to raise awareness and prevent others from going down the same path.

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Art Vandelay May 26, 2012 at 08:04

Well I’m straight so I might not be the authority on this but I think the last fucking thing you want at a gay bar are women!. They just take up space that could better be filled with good looking guys, and as women come they usually take up a lot of space ;) I was at a gay bar last week and joked around with a guy about the ladies room in the back… At least over here we can keep it separate. I’ve never been to a lesbian bar though, probably because they wouldn’t let me in in the first place.

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Huck Finn May 26, 2012 at 08:05

There are plenty of emotionally healthy gay mature men who did grow up in the traditional family setting.

The proportional rise in male&male relationships is well curious and I have wondered what is behind it. I suspect it is some mix of the lack of father-figures and quality masculine ones in many boys lives, disgust with western women, and breakdowns in the traditional education/religious socialization process. There is probably something in the modern physical environment too affecting people with all the chemical changes in the air, land, water, and food supply.

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Ethical May 26, 2012 at 08:22

“But I had some male friends who did make the conscious choice to try men later in life”.

Great point. It may or may not be a tiny minority of men who chose to be gay. But it’s simply common sense that sexuality runs a continuum from heterosexual to bisexual to bi-curious to gay. This is true as well in the animal kingdom. Even biologically there aren’t just males and females. Biological sex also runs a continuum from genetically male, or genetically female, to genetically indeterminate (XXY, XXX, etc). And the genetic identity is just a signal for the glands to product the appropriate hormones that are responsible for the expression of the genetic identity. You can have a conflicting chromosomal identity and appearance. You may have been raised all your life as a woman and have a vagina but when you go to the Olympics and get tested they’ll find genetically you’re a man. With all this scientists acknowledge that there’s sometimes no hard and fast way to determine a simple answer for what sex a person is. Who’da thunk it could be so complicated?

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walking in hell May 26, 2012 at 08:33

“The proportional rise in male&male relationships is well curious and I have wondered what is behind it. ”

For me personally, most of the women I met in America were either stupid, arrogant, selfish, or inhumanely cruel. None of them seemed to have any sort of morals beyond what their friends though of them. Even women from church were bad. I could never find a decent conversation or a good heart with among any women my age.

Now this was not the case for older generations of women. I got along great with them; but of course, there was no sexual attraction.

I think many guys cannot find companionship with women. I mean, look at the cares of modern women. Do you have anything to discuss with them? I don’t. Mix that in with the revolting appearance of most women and you have a recipe for self-imposed celibacy and loneliness. Most guys cannot and do not want to live that way; some slip into something else.

Just imagine how confusing things were before the internet. The poor men really though there was something wrong with them.

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Uncle Elmer May 26, 2012 at 08:41

After “gay marriage”, which as many have commented is really about attention-whores and professional victims having impunity to make a mockery of the traditional mores that they feel have so oppressed them, there will be a push to allow “gay fiance’ visas”, which will bring unwanted attention on the existing visa process.

As women attain more political power, you can expect increased attempts to slam the door shut on the foreign brides phenomena. How gays figure in this controversy remains to be seen.

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Uncle Elmer May 26, 2012 at 08:47

Anyone who has worked in a bar, and that’s a lot of us here, comes away with contempt for drunks and their infantile behavior. I’ll bet cops have even stronger opinions about it.

Drunk females though are absolutely insufferable. Intoxicated men still have some sense of boundaries in that they know they will get assaulted if they push the line, whereas for women, the booze gives them an excuse for increased outlandishness while they still retain female privilege. Behind the frivolity and screeching laughter is still the implied threat of a meltdown, which no man wants to endure.

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James V. J May 26, 2012 at 08:55

Speaking from personal experience: I’m a gay man that got “married”. Even though it’s not considered legal in my state, I’m ok with that. I didn’t do it for that reason, I just found someone I wanted to partner with for life. Yes, there are other ways to handle legal ramifications of certain things, we just aren’t often told that we have those options. As far as gay bars wityh lots of females, I’ve seen that change over the years as well. I came out in the late 80′s-early 90′s; there was a time when females wouldn’t have even thought about walking into our bars, now there are nights when over half the bar patrons are women. I have nothing against my female friends, but isn’t there any place we can go WITHOUT YOU?
I also went to a lesbian bar once, and I do mean ONCE. From the moment I walked in I KNEW I didn’t belong there. This is odd because when I was growing up as a teenager all I had was female friends– now as an adult gay male I hardly have any. Once I got into the company of gay males that were actually “men”, I didn’t really need females as companions anymore. As far as staright guys being in gay bars, most of us are cool with it. As long as we KNOW you’re straight we’ll leave you alone (of course, you do get a few pushy homos that can’t take a hint–we deal with that too), and hope you know where you are and don’t mind being there.

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Art Vandelay May 26, 2012 at 09:03

I’m still waiting for the first feminist troll to come here and accuse us of being closet homos.

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FFP May 26, 2012 at 09:03

95% of straight women do not frequent gay bars.

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Uncle Elmer May 26, 2012 at 09:08

Art Vandelay May 26, 2012 at 09:03

I’m still waiting for the first feminist troll to come here and accuse us of being closet homos.

———————————

Well, it is a thick vein of material for Manboobz.

W.F. Price : “I may not be gay, but…”

Brigadon : “If it gets rough, we can handle it in the time-honored, traditional masculine way…”

and on and on, all of you.

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Rob May 26, 2012 at 09:11

When I lived in downtown Vancouver, I was only two blocks from the “gay district.” I used to frequent a pub that was half-gay, half-straight, and I made a lot of gay friends.

I really enjoyed the time I spent with them. It reminded me a lot of being in high-school and my early twenties, when a bunch of guys got together and did things together. (Lol! They used to call me “their token straight guy”.) I met a lot of them through a friend of mine who used to live in my hometown… he “came out of the closet” to us and told us why he was moving – we laughed at him, as if we didn’t know already. “Go live your life, man!”

Anyway, it was nice to hang around with men – and the guys I hung around with were “men.” Not the cake-decorators who couldn’t hold their wrists up. Lol! My friend called himself Vancouver’s “redneck fag.” And I had to chuckle, because it is true – he still had a lot of that northern logger redneck attitude in him, and didn’t put up with bullshit.

But, it was great to hang out with men, and just men, sometimes – volleyball at the beach, going bowling as a group, going out sailing etc. Like I said, the gay community has something going on that reminded me of being younger – before all my friends got married and disappeared to fulfill their “honey-do lists.” All the gay guys I knew were opposed to gay marriage – they wanted nothing to do with it. I observed it was mostly the young guys – the ones way out on a limb being “overtly gay” and also the poor ones – that were in support of gay marriage. The guys I knew were doctors, lawyers, stockbrokers, construction contractors etc – all of them were decent, well off folk, and didn’t want the zoo of heterosexual relationship laws to enter into their lifestyles. Lots of them recognized the politicization of homosexuality was not a good thing. The one guy, the stockbroker, used to talk to me about “gay rights” in regard to his mother. He hated the whole notion – his mom went to church, and the gay rights activists were trying to attack the church for the anti-homosexual parts of the Bible and make it illegal to discuss them – it pissed him right off, because he believed in Freedom of Religion and thought the gay activists were out to lunch and over-stepping their rights by attacking his mom’s religion.

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Uncle Elmer May 26, 2012 at 09:20

Speaking of drunk chicks, there’s a hilarious new billboard campaign around town. A refreshing departure from the “human trafficking” and “middle-aged white guys texting” screeds :

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/blog/2012/04/sane-billboards-hit-hard-on-sexual.html?s=image_gallery

While I applaud them trying to get the message out, the photo of the girl face down on an old piss-stained couch seems to detract from the rest of the ad. Perhaps a meme admonishing females to be more discreet would have better overall public health impact than over-the-top insults on male character.

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greyghost May 26, 2012 at 09:22

The narticle was very interesting and something I never thought about. The comment from you all are amazing. I never really thought agy men were like the fairies and activist trouble makers you see in the media and politics. And also all of the characters you see portrayed in the movies and TV shows. The first guy I came across was here Jack Donovan. Andybob you sound like a man that has his shit together. I’m glad you commented here today because I never really believed that women really “liked” gay men because they are men period and worse than that not interested in doing shit for women.
The gay marriage thing to be honest I was all for it due to the fact I don’t think western marriage is worth saving. I was for a lot of things but now it is like give the maxist what they want except for my guns just to get this madness over with.

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keyster May 26, 2012 at 09:36

The reason why the “Gay Agenda” is so precious to the leftist/feminist is that it keeps our culture firmly on the path to Gender Egalitarian Utopia. Effeminate men/Masculine women, to where eventually there is no discernible difference. Delicate men and macho women.

I’ve been to both Gay and Lesbian bars and there is little difference in the “energy”. In gay bars there are a few drama queens primping and preening for attention from more masculine men. In Lesbian bars there are a few hard butch dykes hitting on the more feminine girls.

Note that there’s not even “equality” among gays. That there are sexual power struggles, as much as in heterosexuality; a dominant/submissive dynamic that is naturally assumed; which is EXACTLY what feminists want eradicated by government decree (rape definition).

Now why exactly are Gays enjoying such recent success in their “activism”? They’ve co-opted the Democrat Party as yet another “special interest” group, and they have a sympathetic mass media to help promote their agenda…just like Feminism, Inc. Women’s Rights and now Gay Rights co-opting the Civil Rights struggle of blacks. Everything is all of sudden about “civil rights” for the victim classes.

The defeat of Gay Marriage propositions by religious blacks in several states, is a Liberal conudrum indeed. It’s when special interest victim groups collide.

And I also thank andybob for his invaluable perspective.

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Thomas Tell-Truth May 26, 2012 at 09:47

/sigh

Im a way, I envy people who are lower on the Index Of Evil Oppressors. I would love to evict all the noisome, blubbery, yoga pant wearing pinnepeds that have taken over the local spots, and turn them back into dank, manly taverns where someone can guzzle a few pints in the company of his fellows and watch the game in peace.

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Brian May 26, 2012 at 10:20

No disrespect to gay men. They deserve their own space, to do their own thing.

Separately, I want an old fashioned, civilized, men’s club, where I can drink, smoke, and read in peace.

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Brigadon May 26, 2012 at 10:23

I do have to explain one extremely obvious facet of gay marriage that apparently everyone has overlooked.

‘Commonlaw Marriage’

Do you know what an incredible goldmine the government and legal system have waiting for them if they can declare that any two people that have lived together for at least a year (in some places) or a month (in others) were legally married?

Wealthy singles taking on roommates is extremely common practice, and it would utterly insane, in this exploitative culture, to NOT try one of the easiest possible tricks to strip them of money and assets.

As more and more wealthy men ‘mgtow’, expect the pressure for gay marriage, and it’s subsequent storm of money, to increase.

The only people who want Gay marriage are lesbians (to fuck over straight marriage), lawyers, and misguided idiots that think that that is what gay men WANT. Or who are trying to prove how ‘openminded’ they are.

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Brigadon May 26, 2012 at 10:27

BTW- Most people when they think Gay, think ‘the birdcage’.

In my experience, most gay guys have been more like Ving Rames in “I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry.”

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Art Vandelay May 26, 2012 at 10:40

Well, it is a thick vein of material for Manboobz.

Thick and veiny indeed, throbbing almost.

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 11:03

greyghost
I never really thought agy men were like the fairies and activist trouble makers you see in the media and politics. And also all of the characters you see portrayed in the movies and TV shows. The first guy I came across was here Jack Donovan. Andybob you sound like a man that has his shit together.

Seconded. Jack Donovan’s excellent essays and descriptions of his day-to-day life changed my perception of gays significantly. andybob’s comments have done the same. I didn’t think much about gays before but my overall perception was not positive. That’s my own fault as I was too indifferent to think beyond the cartoony perception created by shows like “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy,” which I found completely repellent. What I’ve learned from Jack and andybob is that gay men are men first and gay second and not the other way around.

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keyster May 26, 2012 at 11:15

I do have to explain one extremely obvious facet of gay marriage that apparently everyone has overlooked.
‘Commonlaw Marriage’

15 states currently recognize some form of common-law marriage. This is VERY state dependent and complicated even more so by reciprocity issues among other states. Most laws pertain to how you represent yourself; she changes her name, joint accounts, joint filing of taxes, referring to each other as “husband and wife”, etc.

“THE MYTH: There is a common misperception that if you live together for a certain length of time (seven years is what many people believe), you are common-law married. This is not true anywhere in the United States.”

If you live with a woman for ANY length of time and she can prove in Court that you both “had a reputation of being married”, you will find yourself getting a divorce just as though you were legally married.

So either don’t cohabitate at all or keep a good divorce lawyer on retainer. Remember it all starts with somethng as innocent as her toothbrush appearing in your bathroom.

http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html

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Lavazza May 26, 2012 at 11:22

My only gay friend is my only friend who is as anti-feminist as I am.

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MRA May 26, 2012 at 11:35

Some gay male strip clubs are now charging women more for everything,

“But The Mercury recently kicked up dust around the issue, calling into question the legality of what could be construed as discrimination based on sex:
According to the Oregon Public Accommodations Act, AKA the “Equality Act,” it’s “illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age.” While the occasional ladies’ night at a straight bar may slip by unnoticed, demanding that women routinely pay more to get inside a gay club has begun catching some visitors’ attention.”
http://www.pqmonthly.com/2012/04/testy-tuesdays-should-gay-strip-clubs-charge-women-more/

So they don’t see any problem with ladies nights, but as soon the table is turned the law most apply.

What happen to gay bars is the same thing that happened to Men Clubs decades ago, gay bars are the place for gay men enjoy together alone, but like always happens women don’t like men being alone so they hijack this male environment pretending to be “gay friendly”.

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Rmaxd May 26, 2012 at 12:26

Off-Topic …

All that career u go girl bullshit goes wrong for most women …

“Sixty percent of women in the United States who are 65 or older do not have enough income to cover basic expenses without help, even if they are married, according to the report.

Nearly half of white women, 61 percent of Asian women and three-quarters of black and Hispanic women have incomes that fall below the Elder Index levels.

Men 65 or older report incomes that are almost 75 percent higher than women’s.”

http://cygne-gris.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/future-is-not-pretty-for-women.html

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 12:31

Andybob:
99% of the time, these ‘social issues’ can be clearly understood just by following the money. The example of Melissa Ethridge is the gay community’s future, if these slimy trial lawyers have their way. Not only that, but imagine the ‘legal complexities’ and fake precedents that are going to be set in a gay divorce, or custody battle.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 12:35

Rmaxd:
What are you doing hiding out over here? You have four questions from the previuos thread you haven’t answered for us yet. In case you overlooked them, I’ll ask them again:

1. Since you were banned from Dalrock’s are you still posting there under another name?

2. What cult do I belong to, and who is Twot Novy?

3. Where’s the posts Slwlerner asked for proving he supported false rape accusers?

4. Where’s the evidence that Keyster is a paid plant by a conservative trolling firm?

Waiting for your reply….

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 12:39

Martel & Greyghost:

My experience with gay and transgenders is like you described as well. The depictions of them on TV are no more realistic than the way the media depicts typical American females as friendly, sexy, and smart.

Also, too, note how lesbian couples are portrayed in the media and compare that Andybob’s description of what they are in real life.

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minuteman May 26, 2012 at 13:01

Talking about making gay marriage `legal`is like talking about making unicorns legal. I have no strong opinions about gay marriage, but historically there has been no such thing, therefore you can`t make it legal. Create the institution if you want to, but don`t talk about it as legal/illegal

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W.F. Price May 26, 2012 at 13:01

Instead of being private, could the forums not be set to read-only for non-members?

- Spammers are effectively shut out.
- Prospective members can preview the quality and content before they pay, instead of buying blind.
- The message gets out and attracts more to the MRA cause, instead of being locked up in an echo chamber.

-V10

Well, there will be more to membership than simply the forum. Actually, I’m not even going to use the forum much as a selling point for membership, but rather more as something for those who have supported the site — kind of a social space and direct line of communication to the editor. This is why I’d rather it stay private. Those who want to become members for other features will be free to use the forum, however.

So Much For Subtlety May 26, 2012 at 13:52

I am perfectly happy for Gay people to have their own space and I think they should be free to exclude pretty whoever they want from their bars, but it is absurd to say that homosexuality is genetic. People have tried for years to find a “gay gene” and they have come up with nothing. We do not know what causes homosexuality but genes it probably ain’t. The reason is simple – if being Gay meant you had even 0.001% fewer children than being not Gay, it would have been bred out of the population by now. You can theorize about helping siblings, but still it is unlikely to survive.

Nor is it sensible to say it is “natural” because homosexuality has been observed in other species. It has not. A whole range of behaviors have been observed in other species and these days if a scientist sees two dolphins swimming together they claim they are Gay. That does not mean they are Gay. Even if they have sex together. You do get two males mimicking heterosexual behavior sometimes – the penguins are a famous example – but introduce a female penguin or two and the behavior is not likely to last. You may as well say prison rape proves most American males are Gay.

Remember that homosexuality is a very recent Western concept that is gradually taking over other cultures’ definitions of “not-exactly-heterosexual”. You can actually see this going on in places like Thailand. Before the 18th century we had men who may or may not have had sex with other men from time to time. Then it got classified as a disease. These men were said to be sick, not engaging in sin. Then it was embraced by Gay men who said it was an identity. We can safely say no animal embraces that identity.

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 13:54

Eric
Also, too, note how lesbian couples are portrayed in the media and compare that Andybob’s description of what they are in real life.

Everybody has a story, some worse than others. Quite some time ago I worked with a married woman who was well-dressed, groomed and very corporate. I got to know her and her husband socially but then changed jobs, relocated and lost contact. About ten years later I moved back to the same city and ran into the husband in the grocery store. Said hi, asked how Tina and the boys were doing. He looked at the ground, utterly deflated, and told me he was living alone in a rented apartment because Tina had left him….for a woman. Tina got custody of his two boys (double minority, can’t fight that!) and the other woman moved into his nice suburban house with his ex-wife. In a cozy relationship that soon turned violent. With regular physical brawls, throwing stuff and police at the house repeatedly. Of course when the cops showed up they had no idea who to arrest. His two boys were captive in this hellish environment. Tina’s career suffered, the girlfriend got her hands on a good chunk of Tina’s assets and they split up. Tina then shacked up with a tattooed biker chick. With his two boys. That’s all he said and I haven’t seen him since.

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Crank May 26, 2012 at 14:27

@Einhard

“I’ve repeatedly noticed that gay men seem to be the happiest people around.”

I imagine there is a good reason they came to be called “gay” in the first place.

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Rmaxd May 26, 2012 at 14:43

Erm breeding yourself out of the gene pool, isnt exactly a good time …

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Days of Broken Arrows May 26, 2012 at 19:27

The reason women want their parties at gay bars has everything to do with watching too much TV, which is the whole problem with American women. It has very little to do with gay guys per se. If American TV was making lumberjacks trendy, American women would want to go to their bars, then.

I think it’s a rude awakening when these women meet actual real life gay men and find they run the spectrum of all types and aren’t just the one-dimensional pseudo-girlish “sidekicks” you see on “Sex and the City.” I spent a lot of time in gay bars with my gay friends in college. The super-serious gay accountants and leather muscle dudes would not have much patience for “bachelorette parties.” Nor would the bookish, intellectual gay guys or the musicians.

A lot of gay men I know do, in fact, buy the feminist concept of “oppression,” etc. But quite a few others are free thinkers like Mr. Donovan. The Spearhead, as I’ve said before, should seek to build alliances with the gay men who can see through the BS.

And for those who say it’s a choice, when it comes to men, the science says otherwise.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 19:28

Rmaxd,

We’re still waiting…

You said that Slwlerner supported false rape accusers; it’s starting to look like the only one around here making false accustions is you.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 19:33

FFP:
‘Gay men are notorious for being promiscuous and in fact are the most primiscuous group in society.’

Really? More promiscuous than women? I don’t think the divorce, abortion, female STD, and out-of-wedlock birthrates reflect that.

Even if it were true, the promiscuity of gay men does far less damage to society. And so far, none of the marriage laws have done much to curb female promiscuity.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 19:48

Martel;

The saddest thing about stories like that is that they are so common. I actually had a former client whose wife ran off with three kids to a lesbian biker. Same thing, the biker beat the hell out her and forced her into prostitution. The cops ended up throwing the biker butch in jail (she already had a long rap sheet). Then the woman shacked up with a rich mangina and took him for everything he had in a divorce.

I don’t know what happened to the three kids since, but my ex-client turned into a hopeless drug addict and was about two steps from the bum jungle when I last saw him.

I have literally lost more clients and professional contacts from the clients cracking up after something like that, or false accusations, or some other female abuse than I have ever lost through bad business deals. I don’t even have one male relative in my age group who isn’t single or divorced. The women in the same age group in my family all have kids out of wedlock or live with manginas whom they dominate. In fact, the only normal girl in my family is the transgendered one I mentioned, at least she’s loyal to her boyfriends and talks about wanting to be a mom.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself May 26, 2012 at 20:08

“IRL Gay Male Privilege”

If MSMs are all so privileged, that’s news to gay men in Mauritania, northern Nigeria, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Sudan, where same-sex sexual activity is a capital offense.

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jaego May 26, 2012 at 20:09

Gays and Lesbians are united by one thing – their envy of Straigts. They plan to transform America and the West – see their prospectus “After the Ball.

Minority conflicts are interesting: in the last couple of years several prominent Black Men have had to apologize to Gays. Gays are higher in the Grievance Hierarchy evidently.

You don’t hear about the gay divorces because the Elite don’t want it heard. Likewise, you wont hear about Gay Officers harrassing straight servicemen in the Army. It will happen – just as it did in the Seminaries. Read “Goodby Good Men” by Michael Rose on how seminarians were persecuted by Gay Priests and Feminist Professors.

Many Gays don’t like other Gays and plus seducing straights is an exciting challenge! Don’t believe the propaganda – it is common and can be very vicious if the Gays feel the straight has no way to fight back. And straight men have been disempowered and Gay Men empowered in the last two decades. All part of the Plan.

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 20:11

So Much For Subtlety
People have tried for years to find a “gay gene” and they have come up with nothing.

That’s a ridiculous straw man. No-one has claimed there’s a “gay gene.” I’m not a geneticist and won’t try to frame this point in a scientifically correct way, but gene expression is complex and behavioral traits result from the action of multiple genes in multiple locations that can be turned on or off by environmental influences such as pre-natal hormone exposure. Saying there is no “gay gene” is about as insightful as saying evolution is a fraud because no-one has discovered the Missing Link or because an eyeball can not evolve. It’s just epically scientifically illiterate and I always assume comes from some kind of dogmatic religious belief.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 21:28

Martel:
The issue of whether homosexuality is inborn or environmentally produced is a thorny one. I tend to believe that it’s environmental, but occurs at such an early age, and under such indeterminable circumstances, that it’s ‘virtually inborn’ for all intents and purposes.

It bothers me too, especially hearing Socon pundits, who talk cavalierly about homosexuality being a ‘curable condition.’ These people are completely ignorant of psychology. Technically speaking it may be ‘curable’ but the amount and degree of ‘treatment’ required to reverse it would be tantamount to brainwashing, if not outright torture.

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evilwhitemalempire May 26, 2012 at 21:31

again the whole gay is a choice thing

i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again

if homosexuality was a choice there would be no heterosexual men… at ALL

why isn’t this more obvious to mra’s (of all folks)? only the shadow knows

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Charles Martel May 26, 2012 at 22:03

Eric
The issue of whether homosexuality is inborn or environmentally produced is a thorny one.

I agree, though I believe it’s only the pre-natal environment that counts and how the fetus’s exposure to hormones, pathogens and environmental chemicals influences gene expression. I have the same reaction as you to the homosexuality is a choice / a sin / curable meme. Why would someone choose a path that puts them in conflict with their religion, church, etc.

Twin studies are genetically highly informative. The results of the handful of studies of identical twins are puzzling, with some studies showing not all pairs of identical twins have the same sexual orientation. How is that possible? You have to assume that monozygotic twins can have different pre-natal exposures. I suppose I should be less dogmatic myself on this issue.

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Rod Van Mechelen May 26, 2012 at 23:11

I grew up in Seattle and, until March 2001 I lived in Bellevue, and lesbians and gays have been getting married at least since the mid-to-late 1970s, so I question that they’re illegal. The issue of legality is with the issuance of the marriage license, which is not legal. And in my opinion the state should not issue marriage licenses to anybody. Marriage is a private contract. You don’t need a license to strike a contract to rent an apartment, buy a car, opening a brokerage account, or enter into any number of other contracts, but you do need a license to enter into a marriage contract. It’s bad for us straight couples, and soon enough same-sex couples are going to realize that it’s bad for them, too.

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Eric May 26, 2012 at 23:12

Martel;
During the 1950s, Dr. Albert Ellis did a comprehensive study on hermaphrodites who had their sex determined surgically at birth. He found that 3% of them were homosexuals as adults; no different than the population at large. The same with the Twins studies—they seem to preclude any possibility that homosexuality is inborn. Also, a lot of homosexuals come from families with no known genetic dispositions to it.

I would surmise that somehow, in early infancy, the babies form an emotional bond with a same-sex parent or other elder. But nobody knows how or why heterosexuals form the same bonds with opposite-sex parents. That being the case, nobody can really explain homosexual orientation other than it’s neither heredity NOR choice.

Which puts the ‘choice/sin/cure’ proponents in an even more difficult position. How could a baby wilfully commit a sexual sin?

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So Much For Subtlety May 27, 2012 at 03:56

Charles Martel

“That’s a ridiculous straw man. No-one has claimed there’s a “gay gene.” I’m not a geneticist and won’t try to frame this point in a scientifically correct way, but gene expression is complex and behavioral traits result from the action of multiple genes in multiple locations that can be turned on or off by environmental influences such as pre-natal hormone exposure.”

I don’t much care to get involved in discussions on Spearhead because they always end up the same childish way, but by putting the term in quotes, it ought to have been obvious I did not mean it literally? No one has found a gay gene or a cluster of gay genes and we are not even remotely close to working out what possible factors may or may not turn on what. So it is too early to claim homosexuality is genetic. We have zero evidence that it is.

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Opus May 27, 2012 at 04:22

I wasn’t aware, previously, that women were keen to throw Hen Parties at gay Bars, [really surprised actually] so I deduce that what women cannot tolerate (behind all this ‘I don’t need a man’ stuff) is that men can happily survive without them, indeed prefer it that way. Is it possible that the obvious rise in homosexuality has less to do with biology than men just wanting to get away from women and their behaviour and all the hastle that goes with it? I say this (the women in the Gay Bars) is just prick-tease, and clearly pointless prick-tease at that. Yet if a man were then to make a move in on one of their number, he would be being ‘creepy’. The male-stripper who performs for them is a way for them to reveal to their friends how raunchy they are, but without any relationship or any other risk – as they timimidly gobble behind a towel. We are a bit more restrained over here – one local bar had hen nights but the police put a stop to it as involving lewd or obscene behaviour in public.

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Art Vandelay May 27, 2012 at 05:11

Is it possible that the obvious rise in homosexuality has less to do with biology than men just wanting to get away from women and their behaviour and all the hastle that goes with it?

No. Everyone would be doing it then and we wouldn’t be here in the first place.

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Charles Martel May 27, 2012 at 05:58

So Much For Subtlety
I don’t much care to get involved in discussions on Spearhead because they always end up the same childish way, but by putting the term in quotes, it ought to have been obvious I did not mean it literally?

You’re right. I was responding to a point I thought you were making, which I see now you were not. My apologies. I’m less certain of my position on this topic than I was yesterday. On reflection my conviction about the genetic (versus environmental) origin of homosexuality is more ideological than science-based so I shall confess my cognitive sin and quit.

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Neil May 27, 2012 at 06:27

OT:

The 26-year-old has said he does not plan to pursue legal action against his accuser, and Los Angeles prosecutors have said it is unlikely Gibson will be charged with making false accusations, saying it would be a tough case to prove.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2150576/Football-star-released-prison-false-rape-claims-wants-100-day-years-jailed.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Luckily the UK media can publish a picture of that evil slut.

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Art Vandelay May 27, 2012 at 06:45

I don’t much care to get involved in discussions on Spearhead because they always end up the same childish way

Oh is that so, Mister Poopyhead?

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Rmaxd May 27, 2012 at 08:21

Actually Plastic bottles & plastic waste has been scientifically proven to turn men gay …

The PVC pipes used for drinking water in most houses could also be another major source of phthalates …

Toxins In Plastic (phthalates) Linked to Homosexuality and ADHD

Now a new study has found that altering the androgens of a fetus during early pregnancy — this time by by-products of PVC (the plastic pipes found in most home plumbing) —

Can not only alter the gender of the brain but can change the formation of the genitals in the newborn.

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Quartermain May 27, 2012 at 09:24

OT:

http://news.yahoo.com/single-women-wonder-where-single-men-hiding-050046895.html

DEAR ABBY: My friends and I are women in our late 40s and early 50s. Some of us are married, some are single. Individually or as a group we have taken classes, volunteered, gone on cruises, gone to clubs and bars — you name it.

We have noticed that nearly everyone at these activities is either female or with a female as part of a couple. There are loads of single middle-aged women out there joining things and having fun, but there seem to be almost no single middle-aged men. Friends in various parts of the country report the same thing.

Where do the single men go? They rarely go out alone or with a male buddy. Our running joke is they’re all home watching bad cable TV. Middle-aged guys must be there somewhere, but where? You’d think that if they wanted to meet women, they’d go where women are, but we rarely see them. Can you solve this mystery for us? — WHERE THE BOYS AREN’T, NORTHERN WYOMING

Thoughts?

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keyster May 27, 2012 at 10:28

You’d think that if they wanted to meet women, they’d go where women are, but we rarely see them.

Yes you’d think that,
if they wanted to…,
…so could it be possible they actually don’t?

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Huck Finn May 27, 2012 at 10:30

“You’d think that if they wanted to meet women, they’d go where women are, but we rarely see them. Can you solve this mystery for us?”

They just don’t get it, do they? The woman has the answer hidden within her own question yet can’t acknowledge it since she lives in denial. “if they wanted to” then they would abc. Obviously men are often intentionally and knowingly doing the opposite so the real question for the woman leads to “why don’t men want to meet women?” The honest answer won’t solve her problem (or flatter her ego) yet it might eventually lead to the woman changing some of her behavior.

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Rmaxd May 27, 2012 at 11:22

Men are born gay, gender isnt a social construct …

Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London

“As far as I’m concerned there is no argument any more – if you are gay, you are born gay,” he said.

The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by “learned” effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.

‘Fight, flight or mate’

Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.

“As far as I’m concerned there is no argument any more – if you are gay, you are born gay,” he said.

The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in “orientating”, or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus – be it during the “fight or flight” response, or the presence of a potential mate.

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Brigadon May 27, 2012 at 11:57

actually, I heard that the three responses to stress are. “Fight, flight, (negotiate or submit)”

In the male case, negotiate is the ‘normal’ third response, while submit is the ‘normal’ female third response. Mating could clearly be seen as part of the ‘submit/negotiate’ response.

I am not going to cite any sources, though, because most ‘authorities’ nowadays appear to be well-educated idiots without basic powers of observation.

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Days of Broken Arrows May 27, 2012 at 12:35

I’m not getting two things about the anti-gay crew on here…

1). Why on Earth would you all feel the need for everyone to be alike? Why do you seek total conformity of male sexuality?

2). Why would you want fewer gay guys? Gay men usually have more symmetrical faces and higher IQs. That’s the competition you want? I’ll never forget the feeling I got when I found out the brawny Adonises who all the girls loved on my college dorm hall were gay. Elation.

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Eric May 27, 2012 at 12:58

Rmaxd;
It seems that you’re evading responsibility for your words here. You brought three allegations against other members and I asked for a clarification and explanation of a fourth. So far, you haven’t answered.

Today’s Sunday, so I suggest a trip to the Confessional; admit to Father Welmer that you have been LYING and make public CONFESSION to the rest of us as to your actual motives here.

Not holding my breath, but…

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tiredofitall May 27, 2012 at 18:46

“I once got thrown out of a lesbian bar as soon as I walked in. Its not just gay MALE privilege” – DirkJohanson

Maybe next time you should skip offering to stir their drinks with your dick?

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Brigadon May 27, 2012 at 22:38

actually that’s fun

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Eximio May 28, 2012 at 10:26

I love using these sorts of excuses. I have been telling girlfriends that I will not marry until gay marriage is legal. That works great in politically correct Seattle. I tell gay friends that I believe in gay marriage, but cannot support it until “the violence stops” (the nonsensical refrain from gender feminists about DV). There are endless was to twist the politically correct nonsense around and use it to your benefit.

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Art Vandelay May 28, 2012 at 12:40

Where do the single men go? They rarely go out alone or with a male buddy. Our running joke is they’re all home watching bad cable TV.

Well actually the men are working a double shift to support their deadbeat ex wifes… Also, there is good shit on cable tv, I’d rather watch “Breaking Bad” than deal with an elderly washed out whore harpy.

Man this self pity is appalling. Gonna ask my wife if I can have a drink… Oh wait, I don’t have to.

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Sam May 29, 2012 at 13:56

I don’t blame the gay bar for banning this. Cripes, a gay bar is about the last place on earth that women haven’t taken over. From the YMCA to the female reporters barging into the men’s locker room, guys just can’t get away from them, and sometimes we need to.
Gay or straight, can’t guys have anyplace that isn’t taken over by females?

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Old Guy May 31, 2012 at 08:25

@So Much For Subtlety:
“People have tried for years to find a “gay gene” and they have come up with nothing. We do not know what causes homosexuality but genes it probably ain’t. The reason is simple – if being Gay meant you had even 0.001% fewer children than being not Gay, it would have been bred out of the population by now. You can theorize about helping siblings, but still it is unlikely to survive.”

Beta males have fewer children than Alphas, and the difference is way more than 0.001%, yet Betas outnumber Alphas by a large margin. Survival and replication is far more complex than that. If it was that simple, all men would look like the cast of Predator, given the higher success at mating Alphas enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_(film)

Gay males are ubiquitous, or there wouldn’t be laws and moral codes proscribing their behavior in nearly every society and culture. There is no need of a moral sanction against something no one wants to do.

If Gay males are ubiquitous, that has to mean it is an evolved feature of Humanity. Every trait we have is something that allowed our ancestors to survive and thrive. Humans and our ancestors going back at least as far as Homo Erectus have been the apex predators, and lived in packs like most primates. That means our competition for survival is not a struggle with the other creatures, or against other individual Humans, but a struggle of your own pack with other packs of Humans. The most effective packs would have controlled the territory needed to hunt and gather, and the less effective packs would be the evolutionary dead ends. The ubiquity of homosexuals across the world can only mean that primitive cultures that included homosexuals were for some reason more competitive than those without.

If that was true then, it likely is true today, even if we cannot put our finger on exactly what the advantage is. After all, we are just cavemen with iPads. We have cooler stuff, but we are only a few hundred generations removed from our Stone Age ancestors. Our society is way too complex for anyone to truly understand how all the parts interact and what each contributes to success or failure.

And, being Gay does not mean zero chance at mating success. It is well known that women have a strange attraction to Gay guys. It could be as simple as the basic Game theory that women want anything you tell them they cannot have. Women are more prone to cheat when they are fertile, and we are all programmed to replicate, which could express itself in Gay men as the strange urge to inseminate willing fertile women. The primal urges control us more than we like to admit. It is easy to draw a scenario where a horny, fertile, MILF has a roll in the hay with a Gay guy and Mr. Respectable Straightarrow raises a cuckold with the gay gene. Just having some Gay guys play out that scenario would keep their genes in the pool.

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Reality Check June 1, 2012 at 21:03

What makes you think gay men want to hang around straight men? The point of a gay bar is to get away from straight people.

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Reality Check June 1, 2012 at 21:21

Another thing, what has straight men done for gay men to deserve their aid?

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Red June 2, 2012 at 07:06

There’s no way they banned hens nights as a political protest, that’s just their convenient excuse. Melbourne gay bars banned hen’s nights a couple of years ago. The actual reason was because the women were getting in the way of the gays ability to have sex with each other whereever they wanted to, in the club.

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