The Exodus is Beginning

by W.F. Price on May 14, 2012

Commenter Highwasp pointed to an article on Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, who left the US for Singapore some time ago, and has formally renounced his citizenship, because it has become a hindrance in terms of doing business.

Saverin stresses that he has nothing against the US, and isn’t even trying to avoid taxes, but rather to avoid troublesome US regulations that require foreign banks to report on American citizens. One law he cited, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), has prompted a number of foreign banks to avoid American investors altogether.

Such rules have increasingly become the norm in the US, where the government has steadily ratcheted up regulations and controls on citizens. Many of these controls were pioneered with family law and child support laws, which then opened the door to further restrictions in other areas.

Some legislation appears to be aimed at preventing American citizens from leaving the country. For example, a recent bill proposed by California senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer would have those who owe taxes lose their passports, much as those who owe child support are not eligible to obtain a passport. The next step, in all likelihood, will be an effort to seize the passports of those who owe student loans. It is instructive that senators from California, a state that can’t balance its own budget, is turning the screws on all American citizens in an attempt to increase revenue.

As we saw in the case of the USSR and other Communist countries, however, these laws often tend to drive away the most talented and resourceful, who realize that living in a country that exerts such strict controls on citizens is not always worth the risk, while those left behind are the hapless and less productive. This tends to sap national wealth, leading to a downward spiral that eventually (in the better scenario) leads to reform and the reestablishment of personal liberty.

{ 137 comments… read them below or add one }

Brigadon May 14, 2012 at 15:30

I wonder if anyone has any good advice on getting out of the country if your passport has been taken away.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself May 14, 2012 at 15:39

“a recent bill proposed by California senators Dianne Feinstein and barbara Boxer would have those who owe taxes lose their passports, much as those who owe child support are not eligible to obtain a passport. The next step, in all likelihood, will be an effort to seize the passports of those who owe student loans. It is instructive that senators from California, a state that can’t balance its own budget”

Both misandrist senators from California should be expelled from the Senate if Senators can be expelled from that legislative chamber, much as representatives can be expelled from the House, such as James Traficant of a congressional district in Ohio. (As for Traficant, I imagine he would not have been the raging mangina like the raging misandrist cuntbags that both Senators from California are.) Too bad we can’t expunge California from the National Geographic Bee until it balances its own books.

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Geography Bee Finalist himself May 14, 2012 at 15:47

Expulsion of that trash from California is an option.

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ThoughtCriminal May 14, 2012 at 15:59

“I wonder if anyone has any good advice on getting out of the country if your passport has been taken away.”

Your best bet would be a very old Jew. If anyone knows how to get out of oppressive totalitarian nations,it’s the Jews.

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namae nanka May 14, 2012 at 16:33

“One law he cited, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), has prompted a number of foreign banks to avoid American investors altogether. ”

Something regarding this, and much more:

“I got a British-accented woman who told me that they refuse all U.S.-resident accounts because the U.S. government has imposed overly onerous requirements on them for U.S.-resident accounts. Apparently, residents of every country in the world, or almost every country in the world, can avail themselves of the HSBC Advance savings accounts in 14 foreign currencies—except Americans.”

http://www.johntreed.com/HSBC.html

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Nemo May 14, 2012 at 16:45

I recall watching a film named “Third Reich: The Rise and Fall” where Jews were forced to surrender at least 90% of their wealth before they could leave Germany. This was in the first few years, around 1933-35, before the REAL pogrom began.

It’s downright terrifying that the USA is starting to adopt laws that have previously only been used in Nazi Germany. One would think that Senator Feinstein would hesitiate to adopt them as a role model.

It appears that once you subconciously designate a group of people as subhumans, you naturally start to treat them as a resource to be exploited to the maximum degree possible rather than as actual people.

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Beltain May 14, 2012 at 17:01

The exodus is picking up speed eh? Well good luck to them is all I can say. If I was younger, single and childless (or maybe just younger LOL) I would be going with them.

At my point in life though I really want to be around when it all falls apart on them. I want to see the look on those Femi-Marxist-Multiculter’s faces when it all comes back on them and they realize they are their last line of defense.

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Kevin May 14, 2012 at 17:09

We didn’t start the fire. It was always burning since the worlds been turning. We didn’t start the fire. Though we didn’t light, but we tried to fight it.

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Ryu May 14, 2012 at 17:24

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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W.F. Price May 14, 2012 at 17:39

It’s good. Worse is better.

Now we get to see who the real patriots are. For better or worse, till death do us part – that phrase used to mean something.

I’m a real American. I’ll be here no matter what. Everyone else can run like rats from a sinking ship. They’d do it anyway when they lost a few bucks anyway.

-Ryu

Ryu, you are as rigid as they get.

You think Aleksander Solzhenitsyn was a traitor for leaving the USSR when he got the chance?

Sometimes, discretion really is the better part of valor.

The Contrarian Expatriate May 14, 2012 at 17:39

The FATCA law is indeed very bad. And it will get worse next year when a new provision kicks in regarding foreign account reporting on the tax returns.

Our only hope is that the foreign bank lobby successfully convinces Congress to repeal that law. It is said to be fighting very hard for that repeal.

I’ve already stashed some funds overseas and it will continue to do so until my offshore banks decide that American clients are no longer worth the trouble.

This young man who renounced his citizenship is a great example for Congress of the effect they are having.

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nullpointer May 14, 2012 at 17:46

I think what Ryu is alluding to is that only white people are the real American patriots. All non-whites with the ability to do so are, in his world, expected to flee America with their pilfered wealth.

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jaego May 14, 2012 at 17:49

Rockefeller said, the resources of nations must be decoupled from those nations. Thus America could be fracked to hell and have it all sold overseas. That’s Capitalism. Who the hell wants it? It will just turn us into serfs. The Nation State, if healthy, is the guarantor of human dignity. At least for the West. For the rest, let them figure it out.

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jaego May 14, 2012 at 17:57

A mutli-racial nation is a had to imagine and even harder to govern. Those who imagine a West without Whites or at least Whites in charge, are like those who want the scent without the flower – and the stem, leaves, and root that support it.

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piercedhead May 14, 2012 at 18:00

“I’m a real American. I’ll be here no matter what. “

It’s precisely because your owners know this that they continue on as they do. When you assure them no consequences, no matter what they do, you insure their recklessness.

The only thing that moderates poor judgment is undesirable results. If the US government pursues repressive policies that punish good citizenship, industry and the exercise of good judgment, the patriots are the ones doing that which is necessary to overturn such wrong-headed governance.

Those who go into exile are the first of these patriots. They don’t even have to deprive themselves of anything but their own delusions – living well elsewhere is reward enough in itself, without any need to see points being scored back on the home front.

There are other options besides recompensing poor husbandry with poor crops, but these options are usually romantic, bloody and much less effective. The sensible warrior wants victory – battle is optional.

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Ryu May 14, 2012 at 18:20

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Nemo May 14, 2012 at 18:32

I have a minor correction to make. The Jewish lady left Germany in 1938, not earlier.

I found the exact clip on YouTube:

“Third Reich – The Rise 6/6″

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzJIqzZvSI&feature=relmfu

The journalist was Bella Fromm. The relevant parts of the clip are from about 3:00 to 4:00, 7:30 to 9:10, and 12:30 to 13:10.

A few quotes from Ms. Fromm and from the movie itself:

“I did not spare money on my travel, because I’d have to leave it in Germany anyway. To get out, I had to pay next year’s taxes in advance, even though I will not be in Germany. This is a country to get out of, even if you have to do it naked.”

Jews who left Germany were forced to leave behind 90% of their assets.

Confiscated Jewish wealth would fund at least 30% of the German war effort.

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Boxer May 14, 2012 at 18:36

You’ll have to answer to your children – I ran when things got tough. I allowed my nation to be destroyed. This is supposed to be your country and you’re as passive as a woman. Where are all the alphas now?

You, I, and every other white dude in North America are descended from people who “ran when things got tough”, a/k/a immigrated to avoid starving after famine/disease/fiscal depression.

Nobody in North America is descended exclusively from people who were so wealthy they immigrated for fun. We’re all descended from people who split when there was a better, more viable future on offer someplace else.

I’m actually a little surprised to read your articles here, given that there are lots of whiter places to go (plenty of places in South America and Europe are still 100 percent white. almost noplace in North America is).

I am glad someone’s staying here with me though. I ain’t leaving either. It’ll be me and Ryu in the foxhole. All the rest of you be damned…

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GraniteSoldier May 14, 2012 at 19:39

Boxer, I’ll here with you and Ryu. Somebody has to stay and fight.

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Anonymous age 70 May 14, 2012 at 19:43

>>You’ll have to answer to your children – I ran when things got tough. I allowed my nation to be destroyed. This is supposed to be your country and you’re as passive as a woman. Where are all the alphas now?

I have heard many men (who have actually done nothing to defend their nation except post anonymous postings on the Internet) talk this way.

I put in my ten years and 10,000 hours of public activism, before a few of you were born. We accomplished nothing, not because we did it wrong, but because AW are clinically insane, and the number of insane female voters out number the number of male voters, period.

Don’t get me wrong. If you think staying and fighting (whatever that means) is the right thing for YOU to do, that is exactly what you should do, no matter how much a waste of your life it is.

Just as those who have no illusions about the probabilities of accomplishing anything more than the previous generations accomplished, and want to leave, should leave.

What is inappropriate is for you to imply those who make a different decision than you are making are cowards.

My blowhard SIL talks like you do. He knows I put in my 10,000 hours of PUBLIC activism, but still thinks I am copping out. I asked him exactly what he has done. No op-eds to his local newspaper with his name at the bottom. No visits by invitation to his state’s governor. No picketing his local courthouse. Nor was he the best known man in his city, as I was, and the most hated for his activism. Nope, he posts rather privately on the Web, and once joined a protest of thousands in Washington, D.C. I am so impressed I could just s**t.

Yet, he accuses me of copping out. It is as if a VN vet comes back from 13 bloody months in the bush, ready to get on the plane to the States, and a new kid just in, runs up to him and calls him a coward for leaving. “I am here now; you can’t leave.”

As far as answering to my children, my son has indicated over the years how proud he is of me for my hard but futile fight. He calls me a throwback to the Celts (that was before DNA showed we are not descended from the Celts.) He also plans to expat when he can.

Expatting is far more successful than most attempts to fight the evil. Also, avoiding marriage as such. The Marriage Strike has been far more effective at bringing attention to the abuses heaped on men than any militant activism can.

@Boxer >>All the rest of you be damned…

Welmer disapproves of gratuitous insults. Responding to that nasty comment with a strong Go To Hell is not gratuitous.

Looking back over nearly 30 years of activity, this is so boring. Always the same nonsense from new guys, who never seem to accomplish anything more than we did. In fact, since they are so sure they are the saviors of the nation, and my generation must have done everything wrong, that they don’t even bother to find out what we did, so the best they can do is pretty much everything we did, at the best. Einstein said to continue to do the same thing and expecting different results is insanity.

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No May 14, 2012 at 19:46

Ryu: The men with guns who claim the moral authority to shoot me, won’t let me leave. But America is the ideal, the idea, the last best hope, and I ain’t going nowhere. If anyone wants me gone, they’ll have to throw me out themselves.

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Zorro May 14, 2012 at 20:03

I saw something recently on how since Obama got into the White House, expatriation has jumped 8,000%.

Permanent expatriation, that is.

My country is truly becoming a shithole. The American Dream is now a cubicle-dweller’s nightmare.

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W.F. Price May 14, 2012 at 20:20

Yet, he accuses me of copping out. It is as if a VN vet comes back from 13 bloody months in the bush, ready to get on the plane to the States, and a new kid just in, runs up to him and calls him a coward for leaving. “I am here now; you can’t leave.”

-Anonymous age 70

Word. I’ve been in the fight for four years+. I haven’t gone anywhere. And what did I get for it? Despite my protest, an American judge decreed my kids residents of a foreign country and ordered me to send checks abroad every month, regardless of whether I can afford it or not, or lose my rights to travel across the border to see them. I can be imprisoned in my own country – away from my children – if I don’t subsidize the dispossession of my family. Is that justice?

Ryu doesn’t have a clue how much of an asshole he sounds like, because he’s never been through it himself. It’s all well and good to make noise about sticking it out when you don’t have an axe hanging over your head, but some of us know that living to fight another day is our only hope to see our kids when we get old. I’m growing more and more convinced that a lot of the bad law out there was passed because of exactly the attitude Ryu displays. People who have no idea about dealing with this stuff think it can be solved by dictate. That’s how 50 million Chinese died during the Great Leap Forward. Mao said “you can industrialize and grow more rice if you follow.” Many followed, and they starved. As insane as American female voters may be, I’m afraid the male variety is just about as bad.

Calling me a “woman” for offering alternatives to this personal hell was pretty low, but I’ll let it stay because I think it’s important that people have the opportunity to stand – or fall – on their own word.

codebuster May 14, 2012 at 20:33

I just so happened to be browsing around on Mitt Romney’s site, to find out more about what he stands for. He seems to be rock solid behind the US Constitution as it was intended (?).

Some people might be put off because he’s a Mormon. But here’s what I read into it. You don’t need to buy into his religion, but the fact that he is prepared to live by and commit to certain standards sends a powerful message, imho. The Christians have proven themselves to be morally bankrupt. GW Bush is/was a Christian. The Christians have watered down their religion to make it pc and woman-friendly. Neocons and socons are often Christians. In Romney, by contrast, I seem to detect just a hint of something of the spirit of the founding fathers. So long as he keeps his religion out of nation-governing and emphasizes only his right to practice it, he might be good for America.

Maybe people should wait and see what transpires under Romney before they consider fleeing.

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Brian May 14, 2012 at 20:48

@Anonymous age 70

Appreciate your post.

Now you got me more curious about expatriating. Can you recommend resources for me to learn more about it? It’s huge move to continue life in a different country. Lot of work required. How should the process be done?

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piercedhead May 14, 2012 at 21:39

“Now you got me more curious about expatriating. Can you recommend resources for me to learn more about it?”

Why bother with resources when the line between the US and Mexico is paper thin? All you have to do is drive there, and cross it.

Last time I crossed it – admittedly a long time ago – no-one even bothered asking for papers. The assumption was if you were crossing from San Diego to Tijuana, and you wanted to come back, you would be carrying the right papers before you left home. Even on the return trip, most people just flashed their drivers license and walked back in.

Looking back, that border crossing said everything.

Not only it did feel like a weight lifting off the shoulders as one went south, but the need to justify one’s existence with documentation stopped as well. I should have understood the significance of that at the time, but I didn’t.

An American who organised the trip, a native of Texas, told me how much he loved Mexico, and that if he didn’t get these weekends away he would go mad. I asked him what he meant by that, and he could only say “you’ll see”. And I did see. I don’t think I saw so many American men laughing so hard as I saw that weekend. They were like prisoners allowed a couple of days out on the nearest town, and they were having the time of their lives. The two most oppressive forces in their lives were absent – women and cops – and suddenly they could relax.

Interestingly enough, grown men relaxing are not dangerous – at least not to anyone but themselves. It is only when they are cooped up under unnatural forces that overwhelm them that they become truly dangerous, and there was no fear of that south of the border, for just two short days.

Go there Brian. Make up some emergency for the Mrs, head south and see for yourself – though probably wiser to steer clear of the border areas if you can. Think of it as reconnoitering.

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Pirran May 14, 2012 at 21:49

@Ryu and Boxer

I call BS on every level. Were The Beatles (and countless others) cowards for leaving the UK as tax exiles during the mad years of the ’60′s and ’70′s when marginal taxes at the the highest level were 98%? Would Thatcher have ever come to power if the UK hadn’t (technically) gone bankrupt as a result (the Labour administration had to go cap in hand to the IMF for a loan)?

You can more effectively change a society by voting with your feet than proudly banging your head against a brick wall. Only when the income stream is gone are politicians forced to stop bribing the voters with others peoples money. It’s already starting to happen in California (in a much deeper budget hole than they expected); there’s no reason to suppose that a mass exodus of the 1% wouldn’t concentrate minds in Washington just as effectively.

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Temporal May 14, 2012 at 22:15

“Why bother with resources when the line between the US and Mexico is paper thin? All you have to do is drive there, and cross it.

Last time I crossed it – admittedly a long time ago – no-one even bothered asking for papers.”

Now they have a checkpoint to stop all the people who’s leaving the country under the guise to find “weapons and money”.

The real goal of the fence is to stop the people from leaving the country.

If the Mexicans keep leaving, there’s must be something very wrong in the economy of this country.

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Norm May 14, 2012 at 22:21

Word. I’ve been in the fight for four years+. I haven’t gone anywhere. And what did I get for it? Despite my protest, an American judge decreed my kids residents of a foreign country and ordered me to send checks abroad every month, regardless of whether I can afford it or not, or lose my rights to travel across the border to see them. I can be imprisoned in my own country – away from my children – if I don’t subsidize the dispossession of my family. Is that justice?

He can’t stop you from crossing into Canada, and it may be possible that he can’t have your passport seized. Why is this judge so concerned about payments to an ex in a foreign country? You care about your children and do visit when you can, so that isn’t an issue. What is the judges’s name. I will see if maybe I can get him banned from Canada. If not by reporting him to the correct authorities his border crossing won’t be hassle free. In Canada child support payments are not classed as income, but I don’t know about foreign child support payments. Cheers!

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Brigadon May 14, 2012 at 22:33

I HAVE to leave the US. I got saddled with a CS debt that I can never hope to repay without robbing a bank, and now I am so far in debt that if I set foot out of my state (The only one that is unfriendly to other states CS enforcement) I will be in prison before I could blink. Me, a guy who has never even gotten a speeding ticket.

also, i swore an oath to join the military and I take it very seriously.. and right now it is conflicted. Since the current government is directly opposed to the constitution, I am honor bound to destroy it, and yet my oath also says I must obey the president.

I see no way to resolve this conflict save voluntary exile.

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TFH May 14, 2012 at 23:14

It is still early. Only 1700 Americans have renounced citizenship in 2011, of 6 million living abroad.

But the trend is definitely upwards. Maybe this leads to reform.

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Eric May 14, 2012 at 23:20

Price,
I remember reading a story in one of the foreign news services (probably the BBC) a few years ago that Pope John Paul II had ordered a report on the cultural conditions in the United States, and the report came back recommending that a committee be formed immediately to formulate a plan to extricate Catholic Church officials and provide assistance to American Catholics ‘should deteriorating circumstances warrant it.’ The report mentioned also the ‘probabilty’ that, within a few years, ‘conditions in the United States could resemble those of occupied Europe during the Second World War’.

I haven’t heard any updates on this story (of course, it was never reported in the American press), other than, when Benedict XVI became pope, he convened the commission that was to formulate the contigency plan. If anybody has heard anything else about it, please comment on it.

Anyway, knowing how the Vatican bureaucracy works, if they do anything ‘immediately’ you know it has to be serious! LOL

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TFH May 14, 2012 at 23:23

Ryu,

I’m a real American. I’ll be here no matter what.

This ‘real American’ who actually admires Stalin. Despite being a white nationalist, Ryu admires the person who killed more white people than anyone ever.

A real American who singularly admires Stalin. Brilliant.

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Eric May 14, 2012 at 23:27

Temporal;

‘The real goal of the fence is stop people from leaving the country.’

Exactly. All this talk of ‘illegal immigration’ has never been anything but a smokescreen; just like all this laughable ‘airport security’ has nothing to do with keeping out terrorism. If the government really cared about either of these things, they easily do it without repealing half of Americans’ civil liberties in the process.

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Eric May 14, 2012 at 23:44

Ryu & Boxer:
You guys are completely missing the point. It’s not that people are ‘running away because things got tough’; it’s because what they were fighting for has ceased to exist.

I admire your intentions, but you’re talking about ‘going to the trenches’ when there’s no army left. There’s no shame in strategic withdrawl. Our ancestors built this country, we can build another. It’s a matter of learning from mistakes and moving on.

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Eric May 14, 2012 at 23:49

Geography Bee:
The only thing wrong with Price’s article is the title. The ‘Exodus’ is well underway. Our media won’t report it, but then last ten years has seen the highest numbers of American emigration in history. Canada, for example, has seen a huge spike in Americans moving to that country. So has Western Europe.

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Eric May 14, 2012 at 23:56

Namae Nanka:

Swiss banks are already doing exactly that. Most of them now won’t take any new American accounts, rather than comply with US tyranny.

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walking in hell May 15, 2012 at 00:53

What can you say about this country?

1) Promotes the egregious human rights violation and crime against humanity (men and children) of separating fathers from children, and then puts fathers into debt slavery and prison.

2) Has over 1% of its population (mostly men) in prison. By far the highest percentage in the world.

Guys just so you know some history:
Currently if you go over $2500 in child support debt, you lose your passport. When this program started, the amount was higher; at least $5,000 or possibly $10,000. They gradually lowered the amount over time.

This strategy was designed to incrementally increase the number of victims of the scam without anyone noticing. I would not be surprised in the future if your passport is taken automatically as soon as a child support order is in effect.

The new income tax passport law says that if you owe income tax of $50,000, you cannot get a passport. Here is what they will do in the future: start the law at $50,000. Then within a few years lower the amount to say $5,000 or maybe even $2,500.

Soon there will be a law in effect that if you have some misdemeanors or even a felony, you won’t be able to get a passport.

You can also expect that the US Government will implement a revenue sharing strategy, whereby they enlist the aid of foreign governments to help collect taxes on American Citizens, giving them a percentage of the collections.

The goal is to put as many niche groups into slavery as possible, until almost everyone is in slavery.

Once I was in an airport I heard someone ask a group of Germans to describe America in a single phrase. The best answer was this: “invisible slavery.”

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walking in hell May 15, 2012 at 01:17

Guys remember this: If you are a man, there is probably no worse country for you then America. You have no rights. No rights to your children. No rights to your property.

The best thing you can do is to have a long-term expat strategy and to not engage with American Women on any level: no conversations; and certainly no sexual relations. Save your engagements with women, when you are traveling outside the country.

If you do choose to engage with American Women, you are really playing with fire. You are just one conversation and one sex act away from slavery. It can happen faster then you think.

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AndrewV May 15, 2012 at 01:21

@Temporal May 14, 2012 at 22:15

Some years ago, I was informed that Roberts Creek in BC, and which is not that far from where I live, has a significant number of Americans who arrived during the 1960s because they were draft-dodgers, and apparently we here in Kanukistan had no objection to them staying here.

Then while passing through Seattle, I read in a local paper that there was some upset, that the parks department (I forget exactly what you call them), were apparently in the process of closing and rendering unusable, trails and dirt roads that border BC, and while the subtext was to cut down on drug smuggling, that did not make much sense to me, because as as far as I knew, the majority of the drugs heading to the US from Canada, are actually transported by boat and light aircraft, and it seemed to me that much expense was being made, for very little return.

No offence to you guys, but the fact of the matter is, with more than ten times our population, many of us here in Kanukistan, have become resigned to the fact that you have more than ten times as many crazy people, and that a disproportionate number of them apparently, are ensconced in positions where they can do you the most harm.

So I shrugged my shoulders, and passed it off as just more American craziness. Nothing to see here, move along. But then I remembered, back in 2009, your head of Homeland Security created a stir in Canada, you can read about it here:
http://kencan7.blogspot.ca/2009/04/homeland-security-boss-rebuked-by.html

So then I had the thought, that if you dismissed the idea that Napolitano is crazy, that a fence to keep Americans from slipping across the border into Canada makes a lot more sense than the officially stated reasons.

I am open to suggestions, but so far that is the only one that makes the best sense to me of what your officials are up to.

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AndrewV May 15, 2012 at 01:56

@W.F. Price,
Have you considered a move to Canada? How would that work for you seeing as you a possible motivation to do so?

@Eric May 14, 2012 at 23:49
I remember that was an article in the papers some time ago, that Americans in Canada were being informed that they owed taxes to the IRS on income they earned in Canada.

If I remember correctly, those that had renounced citizenship were free, but those who had not were on the hook, and the US would not allow them to renounce if they “owed” taxes.

Recently however, the IRS appeared to be willing to bend a little. Some excerpts are below, but you guys should click on the link and read the entire article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/taxes/irs-hints-at-leniency-for-americans-living-in-canada/article2265020/

The IRS confirmed in a release Thursday that for Americans living outside the country it will waive penalties for not filing tax returns – providing those taxpayers owe no U.S. tax. In addition, the IRS hinted that it may be lenient with penalties for those who have failed to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts (FBARs).

Roughly one million Americans live in Canada and some had become fearful of a looming U.S. tax crackdown. Many Americans moved to Canada years ago and they stopped filing tax returns, assuming they owed no tax since taxes in Canada are higher.

While the IRS statement will give relief to some people, it doesn’t clear up all the issues, said accountant Kevyn Nightingale, a U.S. tax specialist with MNP LLP in Toronto.

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migu May 15, 2012 at 02:03

The convention is setting up sanctuary. An underground railroad of sorts. It’s for everybody not just Catholics. It’s basically what Pope pious did in WW2.

It’s nothing new, it’s. Been here since the Catholic immigration. It’s just getting more resources now. It’s very decentralized, if you are being persecuted go to a church, convent, or monastery and ask for sanctuary. The priests will grant it if you are legitimate.

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migu May 15, 2012 at 02:08

I believe the diaconate will handle most of it, if its needed.

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Travis May 15, 2012 at 02:23

OT:
Sorry, but I HAD to post this. Get a load of this article over on the front page at The Huffington Post…

It’s entitled:
How Hillary Clinton Proved She’s Braver Than Any Man
Apparently, Hitlary recently appeared at a public event wearing no makeup.
That’s it. That’s how she proved she’s “Braver Than Any Man”. The guys who stormed the beaches at Normandy? The firefighters who were running INTO the World Trade Center when everyone else was running out? The guys over in Afghanistan putting their lives on the line every day? Naaaaaah. It takes REAL courage to let people take your picture without any cosmetic enhancement….
Wow. Can this world get ANY fucking crazier????

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keli-goff/hillary-clinton-no-makeup_b_1515708.html

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Opus May 15, 2012 at 02:29

My working Visa has now expired so I cannot now renounce.

It is noticable that the only people ending their citizenship are the rich; they are merely residency tourists. Quite why whiners like Solzhenitsen (second rate russian novelist whom no one now reads) Nureyev (aging dancer seduced by money and seeking greater fame and young boys – there is little if any homosexuality in Russia – thus demonstrating that homosexuality is culturally constructable) and The Beatles (overpaid long-haired beat-combo who needed George Martin to make their efforts listenable) should be entitled to special treatment, given that, if they were bonus-seeking bankers, you would all be criticising them, defeats me. It is equally true though no one ever dares mention it, that the Jews who left Germany in the 1930s did so because they too were seeking a better deal and took their money with them. To the extent they didn’t anyone would think that they were the only people not allowed to remove their money from a country they wished to leave. They weren’t. Those Frankfurt-school marxists – so keen to bite the hand that fed them – and people like Popper or Korngold were not exactly poor or without opportunities.

Do no think however that you are going to be welcome everywhere; we have far too many people who left their own country thinking that they would be welcome here. I excercise my own personal aparthied and fail to see them – like the emperor’s sycophants – thus I cannot be imprisoned for expressing my views to them in public. You wouldn’t like it here, where LGBTs are appeased and heterosexuals demonised – the place is virulently anti-male. Last weeks Rochdale grooming convictions are nothing to do with Pedophilia, but an attempt to white-wash the sluts who were only too happy to make themselves the playthings of men (Muslims) who recognised them for what they are. There is an ongoing attack on marriage and straight people and ordinary heterosexual interest. Like Ryu, I am going to stay and fight those cultural marxists to the end, which will I trust be a fair trial – on Nuremburg rules i.e. what is general knowledge is taken as true – and a good hanging, if I get my way. This is MY land.

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Eric May 15, 2012 at 03:03

Travis,

LOL, it would take a braver man than soldiers or firefighters to LOOK at Hillary without makeup!

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TiredGuy May 15, 2012 at 03:07

There is another trend that goes hand in hand with this, and that is the stemming of the tide from other countries to the west. Only one generation ago people in the pacific (and I’m assuming other developing world nations would be the same) would permanently move to western nations to live.

But now many are doing what I’m doing – travel to the west to attend university, then moving straight back. Thankfully I’m doing an accounting course, where once you get past the manditory Accounting 101 for all business students, there really isn’t too many women in the class.

This has obviously become a bit of a problem for the host nations, since they are starting to complain that we gain skills in the west, then take them back with us to our home nations – and they never ask why we don’t want to stay. It’s not the men we study with, nor is it the nation itself we don’t like – it’s the dangerous situation with western women (false accusation) that drives us away.

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Craig May 15, 2012 at 03:13

‘The real goal of the fence is stop people from leaving the country.’

I believe this is the real purpose of the naked scanners at airports: to catch currency leaving the country.

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Eric May 15, 2012 at 03:17

Opus,
I read a lot of British MRA blogs and, from what I can tell, any American who emigrated to Britain or Australia would really be going from the frying-pan to the fire.

I don’t blame these guys for wanting to leave, but you’re right about it not being an easy transition. It takes some preparation. I lived in Mexico for 3 years, but I had a job there and things set up first. I still couldn’t go back down there tomorrow and just live.

But, on the other hand, staying and fighting can only go on for so long until, like you said, it ends in a good hanging. Some of these guys are already hung and don’t even know it. I don’t think it hurts to be like the pope and have a good contingency plan worked out.

My plan is to stay and fight until they have the rope braided. Then, they can hang themselves, ‘cuz I’m outta here! LOL

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Opus May 15, 2012 at 03:34

@Eric

In some ways the situation in Britain is better. We do not imprison anything like 1% of the population. We do not imprison people for child support arrears (if we can help it) nor is the limit of child support set at unrealistic or unchangable levels. Our class system mitigates some of the less desirable consequences of the need to earn a living, and there is no religious or other pressure to marry and women are not usually quite so entitled and obnoxious as American women seem to be.

On the other hand, some things are worse. There is no second amendment so you really (I am not joking) have to be very careful as to what you say. History is re-written in a way that Stalinists would admire, and self-loathing is de rigeur. The BBC leads the way there – notionally independent, but in reality linked at the hip with the government. A pint of (warm) beer now costs £3.40. Now that is really terrible.

We are however, always happy to see visitors (so come on over); but equally happy to see the back of them. ;)

Apart from AngryHarry and Anglo-Bitch I am not aware of any British MRA blogs.

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bruno May 15, 2012 at 03:41

Barbara and Diana?
We see it all the time: a woman gets a position of power in politics, and what she does?
Yes, she gets very busy with creating more privileges for… women.
They care about absolutely nothing, except for more power for their own group.

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Traveller May 15, 2012 at 04:01

http://dailyreckoning.com/taxing-the-rich-to-fix-the-economy/

Recent article about expats. Interesting.

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dragnet May 15, 2012 at 04:51

@ Eric

“It’s not that people are ‘running away because things got tough’; it’s because what they were fighting for has ceased to exist.”

Nailed it.

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Opus May 15, 2012 at 05:15

No freedom of speech over here. You won’t like that. It reminds me of the various Tram-girls – there have been at least three of them – they all look much alike – dark hair, pale skin. The one I am thinking of is Emma West. Women you see, never having had to moderate their behaviour, unlike men, who know that offending others might mean an increase of hostilities towards themselves, sensibly keep quiet. She is a single mum with a young child on her lap, who had the nerve to tell her fellow-tram passengers, exactly what she thought, namely , that they weren’t British and it wasn’t their country. Now, I am colour blind – as one must be – so I cannot tell that the people she was speaking to were Negroes and Muslims. Anyway, without permission of any kind she was soon being filmed on a cell-phone, what we call a mobile. It is noteworthy that that is acceptable in her case but quite unacceptable when a man secretly CCTVs his bedroom conquests. Next thing she knows she is separated from her child and without any trial residing at Her Majesties Pleasure (i.e. prison). Doctors are called into to see wihether she is insane or fit to stand trial. The justification for her imprisonment without trial is that she may be a continuing threat to people twice her size (men) who are not inconvenienced by looking after a small child and that such people are at risk from hearing views which might upset their delicate sensibilities – pretty much the way I get upset when you all accuse me of being a Limey. What Emma West failed to realise was that although having a Vagina trumps most things it does not trump being black. All the Tram-girls have made this mistake. So, in Britain, Feminism only goes so far. It is not all-conquering. Come if you want, but you may after a while conclude that America is not so bad after all.

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Wilson May 15, 2012 at 05:38

You realize that precedent also justifies jailing MRAs? “Feminism” isn’t really about vaginas themselves–it’s about the vagina tingle of subjection to the state. Of course the USA doesn’t look bad compared to a royal domain where “indefinite” jail terms or legal “anti-social” behavioral modifications are normal. For the UK to look good you’d have to be Syrian.

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Boxer May 15, 2012 at 05:56

Apparently, Hitlary recently appeared at a public event wearing no makeup. That’s it. That’s how she proved she’s “Braver Than Any Man”.

Ol’ hatchetface goes without makeup and mangina Obama sends political messages to moms.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/how-obama-politicizes-even-mothers-day/

Business as usual, as usual.

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Boxer May 15, 2012 at 06:03

Dear Eric:

Ryu & Boxer: You guys are completely missing the point. It’s not that people are ‘running away because things got tough’; it’s because what they were fighting for has ceased to exist.

I’m wondering why I’m lumped in with Ryu here. I don’t think you read my reply to him very carefully. No matter.

In any event, people who are not bound by punitive alimony/child support agreements tend to still find the USA attractive. I pay far less in taxes in the US or Canada than I would in Europe. Florida has as nice a climate as The Bahamas, and there are lots of Anglophones there (and lots of white people for Ryu to hang out with … the “hispanics” in Florida tend to be European people who speak Spanish, having spent a couple of generations in Cuba).

Regards, Boxer

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Uncle Elmer May 15, 2012 at 06:45

Leaving is one thing, returning is something else. Be prepared to be rudely told to “stand behind that yellow line and wait for an officer!”.

Before you come back through US customs, toss out all your notes, receipts, and assorted paperwork. Small men in “bulletproof” vests will shake you down and photocopy everything to put in your dossier. If you have a computer they will seize it. They will scrutinize every photo on your digital camera.

Also, get rid of the “Magnum XXX” condoms. That really pisses them off.

The only thing you should return through customs with is your dirty socks and underwear. At the gate for your connecting flight, enjoy the pleasant attitudes of western ladies, in such stark contrast to the gals you left behind in your vacation spot. You know you missed it and are glad to be back. When you finally make it home, navigate the wide, clean streets and angry, foaming-at-the-mouth motorists. Fire up your internet and post a comment on “Atlantic” magazine that doesn’t gush with support for Obama’s Evolving Gay Tide and get banned permanently, you sick, racist, “homophobe”.

Welcome home to the USA.

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Jay May 15, 2012 at 06:54

Tax laws are now causing comparisons to the third reich?

Perspective, anyone?

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Szebran May 15, 2012 at 07:12

“recent bill proposed by California senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer”

Anything sponsored by these two feminist pigs cant possibly be good.

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Troll King May 15, 2012 at 08:14

This is OT but I think you guys need to see/hear about it.

Have any of you heard of this new HBO show called Girls?

People either hate it or love it apparently.

The show is about four early 20s girls living in NYC. It is somewhat of the reverse Sex and the City.

Interestingly it is backed by Judd Apatow who said that he hoped it would give men insight into the lives of real females.

Also, it is written by Lena Dunham, who is 26 and stars in the show, and she based much of it on her own life.

Here is why I think it is interesting and all in the MRM need to know about it.

I, and other younger guys(20s), have been harping on and on about young Gen Y women and how horrible they really are.

Well, wither fan or hater, this show shows you how bad they are.

The critics and haters can’t believe that any women like this exist. They blast the show for its crude language and lack of morality and so on.

The fans love it because it mirrors their experiences perfectly. Susan Walsh of Hooking Up Smart loves the show and is deconstructing it in several posts from her “PUA” (in quotes cause she is a wolf in sheeps clothing, Game 2.0) perspective.

The episodes are only 30 minutes long and there are only five so far, so go and find some streaming links online or if you have HBO watch it on demand.

I have only watched a few episodes online so far and these women are like sugar coated versions of women I have known in, before, and after college.

SInce people are talking about expatting, girls like the ones showed on ‘Girls’ is why I am thinking about expatriating.

I find it really amusing that both the critics and fans love/hate this show due to how realistic it is as afar as depicting modern westernized young women.

Infact, the characters (as I have seen so far) on this show are like some of the better women I have known in life.

Check it out. We need to get the MRM in on this, cause everyone is talking about it and if we can point out that women like this are why we have “manchildren” and “misogynists” and so on then maybe the Hanna Rosens and others of the world will get a fucking clue.

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Troll King May 15, 2012 at 08:18

IF you don’t want to watch the show you can find out about it here:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/05/14/hookinguprealities/had-by-a-cad/#comments

OR here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_(TV_series)

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Glenn May 15, 2012 at 08:20

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.”– Mark Twain

As far as AndrewV and his general comments on Canada, here is my experience. My wife and I tried, with great desperation and no result, to escape into Alberta back in 2005 when the “War on Terror” was in coming into full swing.

Now, I have lived and traveled overseas for years, but never did I experience more passive-aggressive spite and treachery than I saw in Canada. So many people would go to such great effort to smirk and a extend a “helping hand”, only to shiv us at every given opportunity. I began to wonder if I might be George Bush’s long lost twin brother or something, even though I am vehemently against the war.

Granted, the people in Montreal were a world better and more civilized than the “Harper Mafia” types, but having discovered that Canadians can indeed engage in a level of backstabbing that would do any warmongering Republican proud. I suspect Canadians spend so much time pointing out the flaws of America, they are clinically unable to see their own, nearly identical, flaws.

To all those considering fleeing to Canada, take my advice, it aint 1970 anymore. http://blogs.jamaicans.com/gwgraeme/2012/01/31/o-canada-i-thought-better-of-you/

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Mark Plus May 15, 2012 at 09:05

Ayn Rand sounds nutty and confused about a lot of things, but she had one good, practical idea: Society’s most productive people don’t have to put up with this “giving back” nonsense from abusive governments in the modern world, when they can shop around for nation states, like shopping around for competing hotels, which offer to treat them better. I would like to see the trend towards sovereign individuals, stateless billionaires and perpetual travelers continue so that these progressive and feminist thugs with political power learn the hard way that their ideology doesn’t work in the real world, especially when the victims refuse to stay put and submit to extortion.

BTW, to the best of my knowledge, the late Arthur C. Clarke never identified himself as a sovereign individual, but in one of his nonfiction books he writes that he figured out how to game Sri Lanka’s tax laws and save a fortune on taxes. Basically for a number of years he stayed no more than six months a year in Sri Lanka and spent the rest of the year traveling.

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Ethical May 15, 2012 at 09:11

“I suspect Canadians spend so much time pointing out the flaws of America, they are clinically unable to see their own, nearly identical, flaws”.

@Glenn
This brings up a good point. Feminism is rampant throughout western democracies, particularly the rich ones that can afford to indulge it. Even if the odds of avoiding divorce and subsequent slavery are as low as 30%, when you adjust for the cost of relocation and add a premium for the inconvenience of relocating away from family and friends are the odds in other western democracies that much better to be worth it? I’d be interested in learning whether there are some countries that DO offer such dramatically improved odds of avoiding divorce enslavement that they’re worth the cost and inconvienience of relocation.

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keyster May 15, 2012 at 09:15

This one rich man renouncing citizenship is not the real story.

American corporations are sitting on over a TRILLON cash dollars in overseas banks. That’s a lot of capital parked off-shore that could be used for expansion (ie-hiring). They don’t trust the Obama administration, his hundreds of regulations enacted and the effects of ObamaCare. Then he says he’s gonna start ordering directives through executive decree, because Congress won’t do anything.

Business needs predictibility.
Once Obama is gone and a known business friendly President takes office, watch how the economy begins to open up – – just like when Reagan took office.

Obama has been an abject disaster – – which is why we’re talking about dogs, women, race, bullying, gays, women again, etc. Get a load of his commencement speech at Barnard College yesterday, if you really want to get your MRA hackles up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joAEru9mrF8

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LastCrucible May 15, 2012 at 09:16

“It appears that once you subconciously designate a group of people as subhumans, you naturally start to treat them as a resource to be exploited to the maximum degree possible rather than as actual people.”

The plight of black people in America…

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Mikediver May 15, 2012 at 09:22

I have been in favor of legalizing gay marriage under the banner of misery loves company. I also wanted to see what the family courts would do when either there was no man to blame or both parties were men. They might actually have to think, and there is no telling where that might lead since no one in the family court system has ever experimented with actually thinking.

However, now the Biden and Obama have come out in favor I will have to rethink my position. Nothing those two agree on can possibly be good for the USA. In similar light, I agree that anything sponsored by the two feminist pigs noted above can be good.

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Lara May 15, 2012 at 09:22

Last Crucible,
Black people cost the United States money more than they make it for us.

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Peter South May 15, 2012 at 09:24

No way I’m running.

I wouldn’t miss what’s coming for the world.

Besides that little facebook Brazilian guy wasn’t born here in the first place.

One down and 100 million to go.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Mikediver May 15, 2012 at 09:39

I recently was watching old George Carlin videos and came across an interview he made at actor’s studio. He said he had removed himself from the world and the human race and could now view it detached from any concern as to the outcome. His quote that is particularly apt here is, “When you are born you are given a ticket to view the freak show that is human kind. When you are born an American you get a front row seat.” So, I can understand the reluctance to give up that front row seat to the coming crash.

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Lara May 15, 2012 at 09:50

Last Crucible,
The black male unemployment rate is very high. They are not being exploited as labor, on a large scale, since they are often not hired to begin with. That is the issue to you need to focus on.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 26
keyster May 15, 2012 at 09:57

I have been in favor of legalizing gay marriage under the banner of misery loves company.

Be aware this is not as much a civil rights issue as it is to further the feminist march towards gender egalitarianism, which is why Feminists have a pro-LBGTQ agenda.

By a man marrying another man that makes him “equal” to a woman. And a woman marrying another woman makes her “equal” to a man. There’s no longer any gender difference in marriage.
Effeminent male couples and dykish female couples with children are what Feminist Fantasies are made of. Gay Rights is paramount to the ongoing destruction of masculinity and “hetero-normative” men.

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njartist49 May 15, 2012 at 10:17

Saturday morning I was at an informal breakfast group of mixed social levels and incomes; a NYC lawyer sits down with us – we’re a welcoming sort and he is only down for the summer – apparently he has connections that can get him near bigwigs because he mentions he was at a meeting sitting with Greenspan: the financial expert declared that the United States will soon cease to exist; no one at breakfast jumped on this at the time as they are not awake; I plan to next time I see him.

The lawyer also pointed out that of the top two hundred CEOs of the top business one hundred have renounced their citizenship and expatriated. Now, this doesn’t quite sound right so I will have to ask the guy to clarify the issue; but the one hundred out two hundred figure is what he gave.

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Towgunner May 15, 2012 at 10:27

From a cultural perspective, this is no longer our country. Unless, of course, you’re a woman. However, a cursory look at cultural heroines etc, we can be more specific and say this is a white, middle upper class to upper class woman’s culture. Culture is the soul of a nation and people…in my opinion I think it’s very obvious that our culture has been taken over. At any rate, expating is increasingly the only option. In terms of talent drain, I propose getting like-minded people together, buying tons of gold and silver and a tropical island well protected with plenty of arable lands, fresh water etc, and setting up a new nation based on natural law. Basically our wealth could be used to fund projects around the globe…a country that is a venture capitalists if you will. I think we’d end up being the most powerful nation in a matter of years.

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Troll King May 15, 2012 at 10:33

OT but this is hilarious.

Women ride the cock-carousel and then hit the wall so they and their parents start freezing eggs cause their parents want grandchildren one day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/14/us/eager-for-grandchildren-and-putting-daughters-eggs-in-freezer.html?_r=1

A quote:


“I thought no, no, no, I’m going to give it one more year,” Stephanie said. But on the eve of her 36th birthday, Stephanie took her mother up on her suggestion and called a fertility doctor, David Tourgeman, whom she had met at the gym. .

“It was a gift of love,” Mrs. Lorman said. “I’d had my kids at 22, and here she is, a healthy, beautiful young woman who felt her years were passing her by.”

When Brigitte Adams, a San Francisco marketing consultant, brought up the idea of freezing her eggs to her parents, her father quickly approved. So quickly that, for a moment, Ms. Adams felt stung.

“It was a little degree of shock,” she said. “This is actually real if they’re pushing me towards this,” she recalled thinking at the time.

Ms. Adams, who is 39, said she felt “this incredible calmness” after freezing her eggs. “No longer was I under such pressure that the next guy I dated would be daddy material,” she said.

Her parents not only paid half the cost of the procedure but also invested in Ms. Adams’s new venture: Eggsurance.com, a Web site about egg freezing.

As the technology has evolved, more fertility clinics across the country have begun offering egg freezing to two groups: women preparing to undergo cancer treatment, which can affect fertility, and those seeking to expand their window for childbearing.

The Society for Assisted Reproductive Technology, a professional group, has begun collecting data on how many women freeze their eggs, but it is not yet available.

The number of babies born from frozen eggs is not tracked. Some experts put the figure at more than 2,000 worldwide, many from donor eggs.

The American Society for Reproductive Medicine’s experimental label is under review; some fertility professionals say that removing the label could prompt a surge of interest.

Still, there are doctors who caution that egg freezing can provide a false sense of security: What if a patient pays to freeze her eggs at 34, only to discover that she is unable to get pregnant with them in her 40s?

Such risks, though, can seem less weighty to patients when their parents share the cost.

Amy West, 37, a psychologist in Chicago, said that she could have afforded the $7,600 bill to freeze her eggs, but that with her parents paying $5,000, “it somehow didn’t feel like as scary an investment.”

In November, Ms. West’s mother, father and brother flew in from Washington for the egg retrieval, which followed days of hormone injections.

Even Ms. West’s mother, an international environmental and human rights lawyer, whom Ms. West described as “very career oriented” and “not the type to nag,” could not resist a joke after hearing how many of her daughter’s eggs had been successfully frozen.

“I have 26 grandbabies!” she exclaimed. ”

Lol. SO much there.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1
W.F. Price May 15, 2012 at 10:41

No freedom of speech over here. You won’t like that. It reminds me of the various Tram-girls – there have been at least three of them – they all look much alike – dark hair, pale skin. The one I am thinking of is Emma West. Women you see, never having had to moderate their behaviour, unlike men, who know that offending others might mean an increase of hostilities towards themselves, sensibly keep quiet. She is a single mum with a young child on her lap, who had the nerve to tell her fellow-tram passengers, exactly what she thought, namely , that they weren’t British and it wasn’t their country. Now, I am colour blind – as one must be – so I cannot tell that the people she was speaking to were Negroes and Muslims.

-Opus

Sounds like a show trial. Racist abuse is common on the bus here, or was when I grew up in any event. As a boy in a majority minority neighborhood, I was the target on a couple occasions myself while growing up. On one occasion, when I was about 14, I had to listen to this old cluck go on and on about how crackers like me couldn’t handle seeing a black man with a white woman. His girlfriend was a toothless, disgusting white woman who spoke with a perfect black accent. I have no doubt she smoked crack regularly. I think the guy started going after me because I’d looked at her, but the only reason I did so was that I was surprised when I heard her voice, because she sounded so much like a black woman.

It’s just race baiting, and I learned to dislike it, which is why I have a policy against it here. Unfortunately, it seems that Obama’s entire presidential campaign has become about race and sex-baiting, and I have come to dislike him for it as well.

However, as much as I dislike it, it’s no criminal offense, or it shouldn’t be. If we locked up everybody who is offensive, we wouldn’t have the space in prison.

Justinian May 15, 2012 at 10:47

Ms. Adams, who is 39, said she felt “this incredible calmness” after freezing her eggs. “No longer was I under such pressure that the next guy I dated would be daddy material,” she said.

ROFL!

So now she can ride the bad boys for another decade and get a sucker beta at 50?

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AfOR May 15, 2012 at 10:53
Opus May 15, 2012 at 11:14

@W.F.

I agree with everything you say. In the case of Emma West, something set her off – we don’t know what. People often get baited – I recall being in the bar one day when two fat people rather into each other, attempted to put me down for being slim – I ask you! – but I don’t rush to the police because of it. I rely on John Stuart Mill’s ‘Harm Principle’ and the corn grower example and where there is no physical threat people should be left in peace. There is simply no way that a single Mother with a child on her lap can be a threat to anyone, but I must tell you a majority here tend to think the only place for her is prison – it’s that bad here right now.

What about the Muamba Tweeter, presently incarcerated for two months for tweeting, about a man (Muamba) who could not have been aware of his tweet because he was in a Coma – he is a black soccer player over here (I’d never heard of him) who collapsed on the pitch with a heart attack. The tweeter was in his last year at University and only weeks away from finals when, the worse for afternoon drink; he tweeted – we don’t know what – but it has to be less than 140 characters. Rude, yes, uncharitable, yes, but justifying prison?? and he was thrown out of University – three years work wasted, his life at least temporarily destroyed.

Then there was the guy in the Gym. On the excercise bikes, watching TV and the report was of an Israeli attack on the Palestinians. He called out something in outrage about Jews, and was overheard by two Jewish guys in the Gym. To save his diplomatic career he had to grovel to the court and pleaded guilty.

Of course you can villify German Nazis, Soviet Gulags, Fathers (who have had the family destroyed by the courts (the P.M. does it all the time) and insult Christians (though not Muslims because they fight back) and so on without any trouble at all.

You are so lucky to have the second amendment.

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Kyo May 15, 2012 at 11:25

@Opus

When you say the second amendment, do you really mean the one that protects the right of the people to bear arms?

Your comments would seem to indicate that it’s the second part of the first amendment, namely, freedom of speech, that is the important one.

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codebuster May 15, 2012 at 11:27

I suspect Canadians spend so much time pointing out the flaws of America, they are clinically unable to see their own, nearly identical, flaws.

Anti-Americanism has always irritated me. But especially so when it comes from Aussies. And Canadians seem to expend extraordinary effort in trying to impress upon Aussies that they are Canadians and not Americans, as if yearning to be accepted by Australians as honorary Aussies, so perhaps the same should be said of Canadians. The obsessive anti-Americanism of Australians and Canadians seems to suggest something toxic, like their people are trying to compensate for some sort of deficiency in national character. I think that this video clip, modelled off a similar Canadian skit I believe (I can’t be bothered looking up who that might be), says more about Aussies (and Canadians?) than it does about Americans.

At least with the English and the Europeans, you could generally associate their anti-Americanism with liberalism or with superpower envy.

Now before I have Americans jumping down my throat insisting that America is the arsehole of the world, I need to point out that yes, there is much that is wrong with the US – but not more so than any other culture. The toxic smugness of Australians (and Canadians?) has them holding their cards close to their chest… but their secretive, sniggering silence is no indication of their superiority, so just tell them to get fucked when they come at you with their predictable, canned anti-Americanism. They have no business passing judgement over Americans, given their own shortcomings. Relevant to their hypocrisy is the bit of biblical scripture of the log in the eye, writ large at the cultural level. Notice in the video how they try to catch someone out by hyper-defining terms, creating pigeon-holes for every category of response, with the unsuspecting interviewee unaware of the minefield that they have entered. Dickheads. Like on the Australian 60-minutes program just gone on Mitt Romney, where the Australian interviewer seemed to be inordinately fixated on the nature of the undergarments they might be wearing as mormons.

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Opus May 15, 2012 at 11:47

@Kyo

My apologies, they don’t teach us your amendments at our schools. I believe the fifth is my right to remain silent, so that’s the one I’d better take.

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DirkJohanson May 15, 2012 at 11:49

Opus writes:

“It is equally true though no one ever dares mention it, that the Jews who left Germany in the 1930s did so because they too were seeking a better deal and took their money with them.”

Its true, it was all about the deal – that’s why they left so much of what they owned – homes, valuable artwork, etc. – and thriving businesses behind. The greedy Jews didn’t care about being subjected to forced labor, torture, murder, being stuck in hot box cars, and starvation in the concentration camps that were already well in operation in the 1930s, not to mention the burning of the synagogues and the boycotts and ostracization.

It was only about the money – if the greedy Jews could have made more money as slave labor in concentration camps while being murdered and tortured, they would have done that since then being in concentration camps would have been a better deal. Why would they care if they were separated from their families, tortured, and had to wear stripes? Dead or alive, fifteen cents is fifteen cents.

Oh brother.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 7
walking in hell May 15, 2012 at 12:02

“From a cultural perspective, this is no longer our country. Unless, of course, you’re a woman. However, a cursory look at cultural heroines etc, we can be more specific and say this is a white, middle upper class to upper class woman’s culture. Culture is the soul of a nation and people…in my opinion I think it’s very obvious that our culture has been taken over. At any rate, expating is increasingly the only option. In terms of talent drain, I propose getting like-minded people together, buying tons of gold and silver and a tropical island well protected with plenty of arable lands, fresh water etc, and setting up a new nation based on natural law. Basically our wealth could be used to fund projects around the globe…a country that is a venture capitalists if you will. I think we’d end up being the most powerful nation in a matter of years.”

It is a good idea. I am in.

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keyster May 15, 2012 at 12:07

Unfortunately, it seems that Obama’s entire presidential campaign has become about race and sex-baiting, and I have come to dislike him for it as well.

The basis for his campaign is Class Warfare, which appeals to minorities, women and “working class” whites. It’s not “fair” to everyone elses that a rich class exists. If they’re not paying their “fair share” in taxes they’re of no benefit to the country.

Should the the rich be FORCED to invest more in government expansion? Or should the rich leave their fortunes in investment accounts that add needed capital to the free market? Who makes best use of money, corporations or government? Why even bother becoming rich if you’re threatened and villianized by your president?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OhnQEP2Hl4

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Lara May 15, 2012 at 12:52

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 31
Towgunner May 15, 2012 at 13:14

@ Keyster and others.

Of course, barry is amping-up his out-reach to women. The story of julia or whatever, tells you everything you need to know. Fellas, women are always 1/2 the population. The female vote is ultimate political gem. They tend to vote as a block because women are herd creatures. As such, they’re easily sold and told what to do. Look at the cultural trends, it’s all towards collectivism. The independence that men naturally display is being emasculated out of us. What is so dam grating is that this is all political BS and worse our founding Fathers tried to protect us from this.

Instead of the story of julia, lets write one ourselves…The Story of Eddie. Note – Eddie comes from George Carlin’s bit about boys names not being real boys names anymore. Eddie was born in a suburban working class town south of Philadelphia, his father worked tirelessly and set a good example but they had to go without a few things from time to time. This taught Eddie that the world is finite. His mother was able to stay at home and provide a loving offset to his Dad’s realism, yet, she demanded the same high standards nonetheless. She kept him and his brothers in line and away from the bad kids. Outside, Eddie learned that the world can be dog eats dog. He had to know his place yet defend it…he had to earn respect, that meant the occasional fight. Eddie was inspired by the things he saw in America, and realized with the support of his parents that anything is possible. His father insisted on things like your word is your bond, don’t borrow money from others and if you have to pay back in full and on time, be honest, have integrity, be clean and upright, be strong, fight when you have to but avoid it. Eddie was put to work early on in his life, he wanted certain things but his parents had to spend their money on necessities. Working at a young age humbled him and built up good character. After a landscaping job had him mowing the lawns of the rich people he saw what hard work could do. He tried his hardest at school and played sports to keep a good mind and body. After high school he got into college and studied engineering. While in college he worked to pay for tuition. In his last year, his parents put enough away to have him live on campus, instead of partying he decided to double-down on his studies. After school he went into the military to serve his country. Following that he worked for as an engineer for 12 years before starting his own company, which he eventually sold for millions of dollars. Eddie now doesn’t need to work at all and he is completely independent.

Guys – feel free to make changes, but we always talk about activism, WF, Paul, Ethical, Bernard, EW, others etc…how about writing up the story of Eddie as a stark contrast to the pathetic ‘story of julia’ who is entirely dependent on every little thing in her precious little life.

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Lara May 15, 2012 at 13:20

The federal government is the biggest problem in the United States. It’s time for that to go. I doubt our forefathers would be too pleased with it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 9
Eric May 15, 2012 at 13:28

Opus,
You’re right about the British MRA blogs, those are the only two I know of which are still active. There used to be a few others, Tom Snark had a really good one, but he closed it about a year ago. Might have something to do with the lack of free speech that you were mentioning.

I read Angry Harry once in awhile, but I read Rookh’s blog fairly regularly. He’s suffered from troll attacks lately too, BTW.

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Ray Manta May 15, 2012 at 13:37

W.F. Price wrote:
Ryu doesn’t have a clue how much of an asshole he sounds like, because he’s never been through it himself.

He reminds me a bit of those White Feather campaigners in WWI who would try and shame underage boys and injured vets into going to the front line.

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Eric May 15, 2012 at 14:01

Uncle Elmer:
‘Leave the customs guys nothing to find but dirty socks and underwear.’

Even worse is realizing that pawing through dirty underwear is what those TSA perverts live for. American airports almost by themselves could be reason enough to emigrate.

‘Security’ is one of the largest industries in America. We also have more lawyers, psychiatrists, and social workers than any other country. Prescription psychiatric drugs, pornography, and abortion clinics are some of our top-selling products; ranking right up there with mass media and military contracting.

LOL, and who says there’s still no economic opportunity in America?

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Andrew S. May 15, 2012 at 14:16

It should be interesting to see how feminists spin this one. Saverin is taking with him a ton of money that feminists and the government could have spread around for their beloved social experiments/programs.

Feminists/government/liberals will try and frame this as not a big deal, but the truth is that it was a massive amount of money and we know how much you love wealthy mens money.

Hopefully more men like Saverin will starve the beast, speeding up the demise of this dying country.

I know if I was to leave feminists would say “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” But what these ingrates don’t understand is that if I expatted, in the town I live in there would be an impact. and that would create a ripple effect however small.

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Opus May 15, 2012 at 14:17

@Eric

I wish AngryHarry were more helpfully organised. Very excentic, and if he had a commenting section he would get some feedback. It is his choice however. He speaks and writes well. The videos are honest but rather amateurish – Paul Elam’s are in another league altogether.

I like a lot of what Rookh says, but the blog seems to have lost a little momentum lately, and although I did not comment, I found myself very much in disagreement with what was his most recent post that I looked at. I said nothing as I would only have ended up in an argument, which I did not want to do. As I say, I think he is perceptive.

There is also of course our own AFOR with his wimminz are whores or whatever he calls it. Very idiosyncratic (if he does not mind me saying so). Krauser PUA is English too. Most MRA blogs are American which may perhaps be accounted for by your larger population and yet when it comes to activism I would guess the most prominent activists are Fathers4Justice, who are of course in their Batman uniforms, scaling Buckingham Palace and Hattie Harman’s place, British. They do not appear to have had any effect other than to garner ridicule. There is also a British M.P. (whose name escapes me) who has risked the wrath of the Feminazis by being critical of Women. I do not know whether that will prove to be career suicide or not. Steve Moxon (English) who is not an activist has in The Woman Racket written a book every male should read, and with academic footnotes.

It may just be that things are not as bad here as in your country – yet.

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AfOR May 15, 2012 at 14:39

@ Opus

idiosyncratic indeed…. the word you are looking for dear boy is “eccentric”, which as you will know being a lawyer is a cunt hair on the safe side of the label “nuts” which society and the state use along side “extremist” and “terrorist” to let everyone ELSE know that those thoughts are verboten.

Arbeit macht frei

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Anonymous May 15, 2012 at 15:23

I wonder if anyone has any good advice on getting out of the country if your passport has been taken away.

Millions of Mexicans have done it, it can’t be that hard.

Also, bribery works wonders.

i swore an oath to join the military and I take it very seriously.. and right now it is conflicted. Since the current government is directly opposed to the constitution, I am honor bound to destroy it

More and more returning vets may reach this conclusion.

and yet my oath also says I must obey the president.

Unless the president is an illegal alien usurper who occupies the office unconstitutionally…

Eggsurance.com

For some awful reason I imagined a cartoon girl that was aged past her fertile years but still thought herself hot enough to wear black tights and a pink wig…

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Uncle Elmer May 15, 2012 at 17:15

The crazy, wild, over-the-top comment that got me banned from “The Atlantic” :

Marriage Equality and Humanist Evolution

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/05/marriage-equality-and-humanist-evolution/257175/

elmer :

Admit it, you only pretended to like “rap” music because you thought it annoyed white people. It ain’t exactly Fletcher Henderson you poser.

As for Obama’s new found love of gays, might be a better strategy for him to say just one positive thing about men and men’s rights rather than his constant pandering to females and the differently-oriented. It’s nauseating.

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Ted May 15, 2012 at 18:03

@Lara May 15, 2012 at 12:52
” walking in hell,
” I’m an upper middle class white woman, and I’m very concerned about the state of this country. Stop trying to create an enemy where there isn’t one.”

Takes one to know one. Pay close attention to Lara, guys.

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Attila May 15, 2012 at 18:19

If Barry Lumumba gets re-elected —could this country sink into an all-out racial war?

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greyghost May 15, 2012 at 18:50

Last Cucible
Hey man, what’s up with this bitch?
Last Crucible,
The black male unemployment rate is very high. They are not being exploited as labor, on a large scale, since they are often not hired to begin with.
Goddamn man that sounds like a line from a comedy act. Lara must want you to come over to the house and slap her ass.

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Ted May 15, 2012 at 19:01

Opus, on Emma West:

“The justification for her imprisonment without trial is that she may be a continuing threat to people twice her size (men) ”

She’s a threat all right, and not just to men.

No one knows more than the British elite of the uses of divide-and-rule politics, employed time and again to disrupt your enemies, usually in other countries. Race and religion are favorite dividers.

However, you really, *really* don’t want it in your own country. For example recall the IRA attacks on England and imagine the what might have happened if the IRA were funded and supported like the “rebels” in Libya. The ruler, Gadaffi, who once thought himself in a stable position as the head of the country, was killed in an unpleasant manner.

In 1984, Margaret Thatcher and her ruling Conservative ministers were subject to an attack that killed five of them. You can safely assume that such events concentrate the minds of those in power.

You can do without potential divisions in your country that external enemies can use as leverage points. Such as race in the UK.

So why have immigrants at all? Because your native population doesn’t replace itself. And why is that?

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walking in hell May 16, 2012 at 01:33

“walking in hell,
I’m an upper middle class white woman, and I’m very concerned about the state of this country. Stop trying to create an enemy where there isn’t one.”

Lara, you are the enemy.

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Ted May 16, 2012 at 03:29

“Lara, you are the enemy.”

And you are… what exactly, walking in hell?

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Ode May 16, 2012 at 03:51

The plight of black people in America…

Black people in America enjoy the highest standard of living compared to other Blacks all over the world. You want to see what happens to Blacks when they cannot lean up against the white man as a financial crutch and therefore must produce their own wealth? Take a look at the living conditions of black people in Africa, it’s not pretty.

The greatest tragedy that can ever happen to African Americans is for the white man to become so economically marginalized that he learns to “think like a black man” basically only to care about his own welfare and not others.

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Art Vandelay May 16, 2012 at 06:12

Likewise AfOR (can this be coincidence) addresses me in German with the sign that used (in my lifetime) to hang upon the entrance to Aushwitz Camp, which I translate as ‘Work makes you free’

A more accurate translation is “labor will set you free”. Pretty cynical.

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Pirran May 16, 2012 at 07:58

@Welmer

Yes, I could do without the hooded hordes in general. We need no hostages to fortune for Amanda Marcotte and Manboobz to exploit (not that they need any encouraging).

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W.F. Price May 16, 2012 at 08:21

@Pirran

I’m not really worried about those people. The main issue is keeping the comments from breaking out into open warfare. There are some things that are just going to cause trouble and detract from the main point. Amongst Chinese, for example, I learned never to get involved in an argument over Taiwan. I’d also avoid getting involved in an argument over the US Civil War here — and it’s been 150 years since then! When it comes down to it, WWII in Europe was essentially a civil war in our civilization – a very nasty one – and those always leave the most lasting bitterness and contention. This just isn’t the correct venue for discussing it, because it will overshadow everything else and have people at each other’s throats.

dragnet May 16, 2012 at 10:47

@ Welmer

“Unfortunately, it seems that Obama’s entire presidential campaign has become about race and sex-baiting, and I have come to dislike him for it as well.”

Can you provide an example of race baiting from Obama during his presidential campaign? He’s been pandering to female vote pretty openly and shamlessly, but I’m not aware of any race baiting from the guy.

In any case, I regard Obama as very likeable—but I’ve decided to vote for Gary Johnson this time around.

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dragnet May 16, 2012 at 10:49

@ Lara

“Black people cost the United States money more than they make it for us.”

Hard evidence or STFU.

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Anon May 16, 2012 at 13:12

dragnet,

Can you provide an example of race baiting from Obama during his presidential campaign?

Trayvon Martin.

You have to include things done by his operatives, in addition to his own press conferences.

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Brigadon May 16, 2012 at 14:20

(@ Lara

“Black people cost the United States money more than they make it for us.”

Hard evidence or STFU)

Barack Obama

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Lara May 16, 2012 at 17:31

dragnet,
That was completely not the point I was trying to make. I was only saying to Last Crucible, that instead of worrying about the abstract concept of economic exploitation, he should be happy he has a job.

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Lara May 16, 2012 at 17:54

What men like Last Crucible need to remember, is that while he’s on the internet complaining about economic exploitation or how terrible women are, there are other men out there just waiting to pick up the slack.

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dragnet May 16, 2012 at 18:25

@ Anon

I’m not aware of any of either Obama himself or any of his operatives engaging in any race-baiting with regards to the Trayvon Martin case.

Can you provide a link?

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dragnet May 16, 2012 at 18:27

@ Lara

“That was completely not the point I was trying to make. I was only saying to Last Crucible, that instead of worrying about the abstract concept of economic exploitation, he should be happy he has a job.”

Your peasant mentality disgusts me.

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Eric May 16, 2012 at 18:34

Migu,
I hadn’t thought of this when I posted the comment about the Vatican’s project: but I wonder if Benedict’s crackdown on the feminised nuns in American convents is part of the plan? It would make sense to get rid of them and replace them with nuns he could trust in a potential crisis situation.

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Anon May 16, 2012 at 19:42

dragnet,

Come on, everything Obama said about Trayvon (‘he could have been my son’) meant that Zimmerman was guilty (and white, which he sort of isn’t) in Obama’s eyes without Obama being interested in the facts…

This was precisely designed to increase black voter turnout for the election.

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W.F. Price May 16, 2012 at 22:44

Can you provide an example of race baiting from Obama during his presidential campaign? He’s been pandering to female vote pretty openly and shamlessly, but I’m not aware of any race baiting from the guy.

In any case, I regard Obama as very likeable—but I’ve decided to vote for Gary Johnson this time around.

-dragnet

Hi dragnet. It’s kind of a visceral thing, and yes it revolves around the Trayvon Martin case. As a white guy who has lived in mixed neighborhoods most of my life (and who has come to prefer it out of custom), it always sets off alarms when a politician starts taking sides in interracial street crimes like this. I’m happy when there’s harmony between whites and blacks, because I really, truly prefer not worrying about animosity between me and my neighbors. As for the immediate neighbors I know personally, it’s no problem, but then there are the people who are usually pleasant and friendly at the bus stop, the convenience store, etc., but who might be angry over something political.

Over my life I’ve seen this get better. When I was a kid it was a lot more tense, and would sometimes be oppressive, especially so around the LA riots. So of course I get upset when I see Obama making an issue over this Trayvon case, which is essentially a local issue, because given my life experience I think I might have to deal with the fallout personally, and my neighborhood is totally different from a Florida gated community.

To some of us urban white guys, when Obama takes sides in a potentially racial issue like this, it looks like the President is stirring up trouble and dumping it on our heads, regardless of whether we’re responsible for it or not. This is really why so much of the white working class has turned on democrats — they feel like whipping boys for whatever grievance exists between urban blacks and the upper middle class whites who insulate themselves.

An example would be the tendency for UMC (upper middle class) whites to say one thing in public, but to relentlessly demand police scrutiny of local blacks, whereas people like me tend to prefer to deal with our neighbors as neighbors, i.e. real people we know and talk to. For the UMC types, this simply doesn’t matter — it’s all an abstract issue of keeping their little privileged bubble and keeping everyone else out. So anything that seems like it’s dividing me from my neighbors and causing trouble between us tends to get me nervous and defensive.

The ironic thing is that the black folks I know personally are a lot more tolerant and understanding of my opinions and differences, and treat me fundamentally as a human being, whereas the UMC whites just come off as disingenuous liars who hold fascist political opinions that seem almost tailored to promote race and class warfare. Seems to me that these are Obama’s main constituents, and he’s one of them. I really don’t see the guy as my black neighbor, but rather the son of Stanley Anne Dunham, who was raised on Mercer Island, a rich, nearly all-white suburb across the lake from me where billionaires have monstrous yachts in plain view (yes, that’s where his mother grew up).

Crypticaros May 16, 2012 at 23:39

http://rt.com/usa/news/leaving-us-america-country-289/
Americans are leaving the USA in record numbers Welmer. Its no lie.

While the United States of America was at one point (and largely still is) a magnet for foreigners in search of work, the statistics makes it clear that an opposite trend is quickly picking up steam.

“There’s a feeling among more entrepreneurial Americans that if you really want to get anything done, you have to get out of country and away from the depressing atmosphere,” Bob Adams of America Wave tells Reuters. “There’s a sense of lost direction, so more people are looking for locations that offer more hope about the future.”

Many of those leaving the US have job skills that would transfer quite well in the American market. Instead, however, they chose to bring those out of the States, attracted instead to opportunities elsewhere.

Even mexicanos have had enough and are quitting america voluntarily.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-23/mexican-immigration-united-states/54487564/1

Mexican immigration to the United States is on the brink of a historic reversal: More Mexicans may be going back to Mexico than coming in, according to a Pew Hispanic Center report Monday.

The influx of Mexicans, which has dominated U.S. immigration patterns for four decades, began to tumble in 2006 and 2007 as the housing bust and recession created a dearth of jobs. At the same time, the number of Mexicans returning to their native country along with their U.S.-born children soared.

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Lara May 17, 2012 at 06:13

dragnet,
What’s a peasant mentality?

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Brigadon May 17, 2012 at 07:40

@Lara-

That means that you are unwilling to consider the larger world around you. Peasant mentality means “Keep your head down and your face in the dirt as your betters ride by, because that’s safe and requires the least amount of thought.” It includes a smidgeon of mindless faith in authority, and a whole lot of fear. It is generally an extremely female trait, but it has absolutely NO place in Men’s discussions.

Very similar to slave mentality. You cannot free a slave, he has to free himself first.

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pb May 17, 2012 at 08:49

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articles/ranger-49685–.html#ixzz1v4k21Lka

First roles are opened up to women, now they are considering allowing women into Ranger School. I would say men should get out of the military, but they do have to make a living. Men should definitely start gathering strength and training on their own.

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pb May 17, 2012 at 08:50

*certain combat roles

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dragnet May 17, 2012 at 19:12

@ Welmer

With regards to the Trayvon Martin situation, I think it’s important to take a look at the only words Obama has actually spoken on the topic—prompted by a reporter:

“Obviously this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. When I think about this boy I think about my own kids and I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together, federal, state and local to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

I’m glad that not only the Justice Department is looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what is taking place.

I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this happened. That means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon. If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we will get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

I’m hard pressed to find anything at all objectionable or divisive about this. All I see here is a heartfelt attempt to actually connect with the parents of a dead boy without jumping to conclusions regarding the guilt or innocence of the shooter. It’s one hell of a leap to read this and accuse Obama of personally “taking sides in [an] interracial street crime”.

But I broadly agree with the rest of your post. Race is largely a red herring—and it’s been so for a long time in this country. It’s been a time honored strategy of wealthy and powerful to incite and enforce divisions among people who should, left to the inevitable, combine against them. As an example, by 1860 only 12 percent of whites could even afford to own a single slave…yet poor whites were among the fiercest defenders of the insitution because they were duped by white elites into thinking that their skin color made them better than the very same blacks they toiled next to and, often, were beaten with.

Fmr Senator Jim Webb has spoken very eloquently of the artifical divide between blacks and lower- and working-class whites prompted by white elites post-Reconstruction when it was feared that the new class of freed blacks and poor, war weary whites would join together to bring change.

I read white nationalist posts on this site and just shake my head—they don’t get it. The battle lines are not drawn by race—they are drawn by class/wealth and in that battle it is absolutely crucial to keep MEN weak and ineffectual, no matter their race. The (largely white) elites that actually run shit don’t see WNs and average white guys as being like them just because they have the same skin color. In fact, they see me—a black guy Ivy grad–as being like them much more than a working stiff from rural Pennsylvania or Appalachia.

If there isn’t a broad-based movement to take this country back from it’s corrupt elites, the gap between rich/poor in this country will continue to expand and eventually the middle class will be bled dry. To those folks, racial distinctions exist only to the extent that they can be exploited to pit the lower classes against each other. Other than that, we’re all just peons to be exploited—and targeted by the expanding national security state and burgeoning domestic survelliance appartus when we get too far out of line. The guys who think that “race wars” are just around the corner—but that having white skin will make them part of the winning team—are delusional. The militarization of our police forces, the rollback of constitutionally-guaranteed freedoms, the privatization of prisons and the normalisation of torture, due-process free assassination, two-tiered justice and other loathsome initiatives was never really about Muslim terrorists or oppressing blacks—it was about suppressing the coming domestic social unrest. The next few decades are going to very interesting.

It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve spent a significant amount of time around black Americans. Reading you over the years I’d thought you might have had actual day-to-day experience living in close proximity to black people—which would help explain your nuanced, honest and humane views on us, views that are many times absent in this corner of the web.

Thanks for your reply.

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W.F. Price May 17, 2012 at 20:24

It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve spent a significant amount of time around black Americans. Reading you over the years I’d thought you might have had actual day-to-day experience living in close proximity to black people—which would help explain your nuanced, honest and humane views on us, views that are many times absent in this corner of the web.

-dragnet

Well, it goes farther than that, actually. My little brother and oldest sister are half black. I was pretty close to my little brother. Papa was a rolling stone, as they say, but we loved each other.

continent May 17, 2012 at 21:41

Wikipedia on Saverin
“Personal lifeEduardo Saverin was born in São Paulo, Brazil, to a wealthy Jewish Brazilian family,[11][12][13][14] and was raised in Miami, Florida. Eduardo’s father was a Brazilian industrialist working in export, clothing, shipping, and real estate.[15]

By 1993, Saverin’s father had become wealthy, and in 1993 it was discovered that his son Eduardo´s name had been placed on a list of kidnapping victims by gangs specializing in kidnapping for ransom. As a result, the family moved to Miami to find a safer place to live. Saverin attended Gulliver Preparatory School in Miami, and went on to Harvard University, where he was a member of the Phoenix S.K. Club as well as president of the Harvard Investment Association. ”

By his Jewish birhtright Savering automaticlly is a citizen of Israel
But because he was not “natural born” US citizne. Since he renounced his US citizenship, rather than having been removed by act of government, if he would wish to resume U.S. citizebship, how would U.S. Supreme Court ruling Afroyim v. Rusk impact his case since he was a naturalized U.S. citizen

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Opus May 18, 2012 at 01:34

@continent

How interesting – rather supports the point I made at 02.29 on the 15th.

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Lara May 18, 2012 at 05:18

@dragnet
“they were duped by white elites into thinking that their skin color made them better than the very same blacks they toiled next to and, often, were beaten with.”

The beaten part sounds like an exaggeration. Rich kids are wussy. Everyone knows you are more likely to get your ass kicked by another poor kid.

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Lara May 18, 2012 at 05:32

dragnet,
Considering you are a Harvard Law School graduate, you are considered elite, so I’m not sure why you have such class resentment. Higher class people probably aren’t very effective at stirring up racial tensions. If lower class blacks and whites didn’t always get along, it probably had more to do with day to day interactions.

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Lara May 18, 2012 at 05:44

Otherwise, I agree with you the United States government has way too much power. We should have never let them get like that.

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dragnet May 18, 2012 at 06:55

@ Lara

“The beaten part sounds like an exaggeration. Rich kids are wussy. Everyone knows you are more likely to get your ass kicked by another poor kid.”

I think you need to read what I wrote a bit more closely—I was speaking about the lives of black slaves and poor whites before the civil war. It’s a documented historical fact that poor whites often worked in the fields alongside black slaves. And that while they weren’t as terrorized and comprehensively dehumanized as blacks were, they still managed to receive genuinely savage treatment at times.

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dragnet May 18, 2012 at 07:37

@ Lara

At no time did I indicate that I had attended Harvard Law School. And just because I went to a good school and have managed to make a few bucks doesn’t mean I don’t remember what it was like growing up broke and surrounded by violence.

I don’t have a problem with elites–or the notion of an elite. I do have a problem with them becoming decadent and irresponsible. I do have a problem with them nullifying the rule of law. I have a problem with them abandoning the principles and ideas that made it possible for a poor black kid to have a shot if he just studied hard enough and caught a few breaks along the way.

And I really dislike that an increasingly militarized surveillance and police apparatus will be used to strangle the only response the masses have when their elites have become too predatory and callous to be redeemed: revolution. That’s worth getting exercised about, and dismissively terming it “class resentment” is either a function of a limited vocabulary or fear.

Likely a bit of both.

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continent May 18, 2012 at 10:05

Facebook’s CEO has found a way not to pay a lot of taxes. So reportedly do other CEO without leaving USA. Link;
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11400004/1/will-mark-zuckerberg-ever-pay-taxes-again.html

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Jean Valjean May 19, 2012 at 11:23

On the one hand I think this guy is leaving the U.S. because he doesn’t want to pay taxes and or he wants to do business in countries that are corrupt or despotic. There is a huge market in blood diamonds and minerals in the Congo that the U.S. forbids it’s citizens from exploiting. Saverin is probably wanting to cash in on that or something like it.

Whether I’m right on any of that or not; I think that any man who wants to leave this country because he feels the weight of unfair laws should do so and be allowed to do so. Saverin is no different than MGTOW in that respect.

While I feel an inclination to declare Saverin unpatriotic and a traitor I realize that he is probably neither. Freedom means the right to chose something or somewhere else. He chose to leave and I respect him for that choice. If I had the resources I might have left a long time ago as well.

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Brigadon May 20, 2012 at 02:12

It’s called ‘the right of departure’ and until the soviet union, it was the only widely-respected right in existence.
Any free man, on seeing his life fail or hating the country he is in, has the right to pack up his things and leave. Only slaves and serfs(A ‘land slave) were denied this right.

And Now Obama is taking this right away from Americans. That should be the clearest possible indicator of the esteem and value he holds for american citizens… serfs and slaves.

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varslandeman May 21, 2012 at 03:46

Brigadon on May 14, 2012 at 15:30 wrote:
> I wonder if anyone has any good advice on
> getting out of the country if your passport
> has been taken away.

This man may provide a useful example:

http://www.nostate.com/

His name is Mike Gogluski, and he is a former citizen of the United States. What country is he a citizen of now?

None whatsoever.

He renounced his US citizenship and became a stateless person. His travels are on a document called a “Convention of 28 September 1954 travel document” — it’s a passport for stateless persons.

There were two conventions on the status of refugees and stateless persons. Mike Gogluski’s stateless persons travel document applies to parties of the 1954 treaty, while others apply to the 1951 treaty.

Wikipedia has plenty of information, along with the UNHCR, on these travel documents.

While this may seem like a fairly extreme method for leaving the United States when powers seem stacked against achieving it, this does actually make it possible.

First, the United States is itself a party to the 1954 treaty, although renouncing citizenship while still physically within the United States would be rather silly at the least.

Second, and considerably more useful, a country bordering the United States is also a party to the 1954 treaty. A few lovely tropical islands are parties to the treaty, making an exit somewhat enjoyable, although you might want to have some stacks of cash and easily exportable skills first. I would suspect that if your intention is to become a stateless person, nearly any form of identity document, even an invalidated driving licence or identity card, would do.

What Eduardo Saverin did was what he could do with sufficient capital — a move to Singapore for him makes considerably more sense than accepting ever-increasing financial and movement limits. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible for everyone who isn’t moneyed. As far as I can tell, Mike Gogluski is flat broke a lot of the time, but still manages to have an interesting, if not entertaining, kind of life.

Insofar as patriotism goes, it’s a religion of state, also something that can be renounced with force, much like nailing “95 Theses on the Injustices Toward the Emancipated Free” on a courthouse door. Maybe it’s with irony that one of America’s sainted poets, Ralph Waldo Emerson, put it to everyone the best in a piece titled “Self-Reliance”. You’ve probably heard bits of it already, that part about the “hobgoblin of little minds” especially, but I suspect most patriots usually understand it for all the wrong reasons.

I recall that in Mister Price’s Seattle, many years ago, someone put up adverts asking the last person to leave to switch off the lights. With that in mind, soldier on, mighty Ryu … and this time, make the adverts light up themselves! It’s the ecologically sound thing to do, after all. Be kind to the planet and all that.

Bottom line: the United States hasn’t “Sovietised” itself completely yet, so exiting the system with emphasis is not unthinkable … yet.

Whether you’ll be able to hit a retail forex desk with ease to exchange your not-quite-so-green-Greenbacks for alternate currency, well, that’s quite another thing altogether. Where I am, I have to present my passport for retail forex trades …

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Brigadon May 21, 2012 at 09:03

well, see, unlike Michael Gugawhatsit, I LIKE being a citizen, I WANT to own a country. I just don’t want to own THIS one anymore.

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