The American Lei Feng?

by W.F. Price on April 28, 2012

Lei Feng was a young man who died in 1962 in service to the Communist regime in Maoist China. After his death, Lei was lionized as the model citizen, who selflessly sacrificed himself to Communism and his country. Despite the fact that Maoism has fallen out of favor, Lei Feng remains something of a cherished figure in China, and a museum dedicated to his life remains popular in Changsha, where he was born. I first heard about Lei Feng when watching a movie commemorating his life shortly after I moved to Beijing in 1997. My Chinese friends filled me in on who he was, and told me he was a great hero and much beloved, representing the pure, simple ideals of the revolution.

Today, we have millions of American men selflessly working away for the good of society, often without any compensation. Many of them do so unwillingly, having been forced into penury by their faithless children’s mothers/ex-wives, but there are still those who contribute to the common good with neither carrot nor stick to motivate their endeavors.

One of these is Justin Knapp, an unemployed thirty-year-old who apparently lives with his mother and spends hours every day editing Wikipedia. Knapp recently became the first person to pass the one million edits mark, meaning he has put thousands of hours into the Wikipedia project. For all his effort, Knapp has not recent a penny of compensation.

Knapp is described as follows:

The bearded and bespectacled former pizza delivery guy from Indianapolis, Indiana is a pretty extraordinary wikipedian. Last week, Knapp, 30, became the first person on the site to reach 1 million edits. He’s done it by spending “several hours” every day on the site. Knapp’s never received a cent of pay from Wikipedia and is currently unemployed.

When asked why he does all this work, he responds:

Broadly speaking, I do it for two reasons. Aesthetically, it just pleases me. This is how I relax: I read and write. Finding things to do in this project is a way of passing time that is constructive and fun for me. On the other hand, editing is also a way of actualizing some of my values. I believe strongly in sharing and collaboration so if I can be part of a worldwide, multi-lingual community all dedicated toward giving away the world’s knowledge freely, that gives me a sense that I’m doing a good thing.

There’s been a lot of talk about how there aren’t enough female editors on Wikipedia. Even Wikipedia periodically flogs itself over this “problem.” Given that the job is open to all, this puzzles some people. Supposedly, women are altruistic and like “sharing.” But is this true? Do they really like to share, or do they simply like being shared with? Maybe women really are the smarter sex, and simply don’t like working for free. Perhaps similar jobs that pay are open to women but not men. Whatever the reason, the lack of female editors on Wikipedia is presented as an example of misogyny and bias, and harmful to women.

However, one thing I’d like to ask women is whether they’d really like to work for thousands of hours for free. I’m pretty sure we know the answer, as they hate the idea of even fixing a family dinner or taking care of their own children without being paid for it; women in the US have fought a decades-long battle to be financially compensated for everything they do. Including, most recently, undergrad fornication.

So, unless Wikipedia wants to start paying editors, the gender disparity will likely remain stark. And, in the meanwhile, men like Justin Knapp will continue to put hard work into bringing knowledge to the world. Like Lei Feng, they sacrifice their strength and ability for the greater good. However, there is a difference: at least in Maoist China, men like Lei Feng were honored at the highest level. Here in the West, men like Justin Knapp are encouraged to keep working away and all the while demeaned and insulted for their effort, simply because women – through their own choice – aren’t equally represented amongst those who choose to sacrifice their time and effort.

{ 229 comments… read them below or add one }

Traveller April 28, 2012 at 09:16

I do noy know this guy, but the simple fact he s doing that does not mean he is valuable.

Wikipedia has always been anti men anti MRM, they deleted the page about T. Ball and so.

Maybe this guy is one of them?

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AfOR April 28, 2012 at 09:17

hmmm..

there are two subjects that I can speak on with some authority, having spent 30 years doing one for money and love and 20 years (concurrently) doing the other for money and love.

wikipedia on both these subjects is horrendously fucking wrong and crap, but both these subjects are rules by “editors” who have seized control of the subjects in question, every time you try to correct something they revert, then they ban your IP.

Take http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_rape_accusations for example

NOT a subject about which I consider myself an expert, even though I have been falsely accused, and yet the article studiously ignores actual UK home office data, places negative spin on other data, lowballs what is left and quickly skips off to the next category.

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W.F. Price April 28, 2012 at 09:23

@AfOR

It would be interesting to breakdown edits by gender and see whether female editors are more likely to censor and ban people. It may turn out that most female wikipedia editors are in fact censors rather than editors in the true sense of the word.

Hf April 28, 2012 at 09:37

Yeah, I would have to agree with the above posters on this.

Though wikipedia can be a a good resource for a few subjects, I wouldnt typically trust it for most.

Once upon a time, I was surprised to find wikipedia describe “selection-bias” quite objectively, and then after posting about selection bias quite extensively on certain MSM articles to argue the whole pay-wage myth, the entire selection-bias wikipedia page was changed. Coincidence? perhaps

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Gunn April 28, 2012 at 09:49

My limited experience of wikipedia for articles where there are recent, fundamental, disagreements (i.e. in academia) about the subject matter is that the editorial policy and/or editors with power are part of a pathological culture that actively pushes biased perspectives.

There are hardly any female editors on wikipedia anyway, so I don’t think its correct to lay the blame for editorial policy at the door of the few female contributors.

Instead, its probably more accurate to see wikipedia as being similar to old media in terms of its biases (multicultural / liberal / etc). Articles or topics that attack the status quo in this sense are simply unreliable due to the edit wars that occur. Whilst this is also true for established offline encylopedias, the nature of wikipedia and the real time (and tracked) editing makes it very transparent when heterodox views are suppressed.

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Opus April 28, 2012 at 10:08

Being in favour of Equality and being desirous of empowering Women, I propose lobbying Her Majesty’s Government to introduce legislation to ensure equal female representation in the following pursuits (so far unfairly and cruelly dominated by Men):

Stamp-Collecting, Metal Detecting, Model-Railway Building, Steam Engine Enthusiasts, Pub- Rock-bands, Cricketers, Soccer Players, Plane Spotters and Train-Spotters (do you have all of these in America I wonder???).

At the same time I propose further legislation to ensure that men have equal access to such female dominated pursuits as: Pampering, Massage Therapy, Gyms, Tanning Saloons, Coffee Mornings, Luncheons with members of the same sex, Girlie Weekends, and Shopping.

Sadly I suspect my proposals will fail, as women seem unable to do anything, unless: They are being paid; spending money; or, are able to pose and show-themselves off, which cannot be said of my list of male activities; and men just cannot be bothered with taking it easy as in my list of female activities.

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Anti Idiocy April 28, 2012 at 10:14

“It would be interesting to breakdown edits by gender and see whether female editors are more likely to censor and ban people. It may turn out that most female wikipedia editors are in fact censors rather than editors in the true sense of the word.”

Given how many men love to grovel for women, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if manginas and white knights are worse than female feminists. It’s been my experience that, over the last couple of decades, women don’t need to spew so many anti-male lies, because they can count on men doing it for them.

In a very real sense, men in general are the worst enemies of their sex.

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American April 28, 2012 at 10:24

I kinda agree with traveller here. These posts he’s making to wikipedia is his way of “Spinning” his definitions of things; from the framework of his own constructions.
Knapps own words …”On the other hand, editing is also a way of actualizing some of my values”.
American say, there you have it folks!! he’s spinning his constructions into wikipedia, Is he a hero??? well lets see if hes a hero by viewing how he defines for example ….Patriarchy and matriarchy???

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 14
Carnivore April 28, 2012 at 10:32

@Opus,

Yeah, we’ve got that, although lean on the cricketers. Also tornado spotters/chasers. And when it comes to antique radios, tube audio in general, antique phonographs, collecting records – from 33′s to 78′s – and collector cars, muscle cars and handguns, rifles, bows, knives, hunting. Yup, all mainly guy stuff. Damn that evil patriarchy for discouraging half the population from pursuing these interests.

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American April 28, 2012 at 10:36

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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AfOR April 28, 2012 at 10:39

@ Bill

I don’t know dick about the sex of wikipedians etc…

I only know two subjects myself… BUT….

know a ex naval sub nuke reactor tech, and an ex fast breeder reactor tech, both of whom branded wikipedia as complete and utter bollocks in THEIR fields of expertise.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Ryu April 28, 2012 at 11:01

It’s not selfless.

You spend your time on what you value. That’s why I blog, why you blog and why people engage in political activism.

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Glenn April 28, 2012 at 11:29

On the very rare occasion that I stumble on to Wikipedia, I do so only to get the general plain-vanilla, Politically Correct framework of a subject…then I toddle off to google for some more in-depth research.

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Anonymous April 28, 2012 at 11:43

Wikipedia IMHO is now pushing for the feminist agenda. c.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism/Projects/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
J April 28, 2012 at 11:51

I agree with Glenn, Google is where I get in-depth, wikipedia is maybe where I go in case I need to know the “maybe” basics of a topic.

Also, I agree with Afor, Im not sure he is a Lei Feng level martyr for any cause. I appreciate you Price, I just think Lei Feng comparisons are pushing it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
American April 28, 2012 at 12:09

Definitions and perverting the definitions of words are very instrumental in the success of modern American Gender-feminism.
For example, By perverting the definitions of patriarchy and matriarchy, gender-feminist quack-ademics have had huge success in their empowerment.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 23
keyster April 28, 2012 at 12:26

There’s a very active WikiGroup of feminists (mostly women) that monitor anything anti-feminist and/or pro-men.

Women’s lack of involvement has nothing to do with pay. They’re simply not interested in such a tedious detail oriented obsession. Why aren’t more women collecting coins or stamps?

The question is: When will we start honestly answering the question –

“Why aren’t there more women in male dominated fields and interests?”

Which begs the question: “Why aren’t there more men interested in fashion and hollywood gossip?” And why is it those few who are, happen to be so good at it?

A woman’s biological imperative is procreation; pregnancy and motherhood, above everything else. This is what feminists and most women are fighting against. They want to be more like men but, aside from exceptions, they never can be.

This is why our education system had to become more feminized; to accomodate females so they could be “equal” to males. It’s also why males are losing interest in education. It’s reading, rote memory, ethereal thinking, objective analysis and other female oriented schema. Whereas males want absolute truths, systemized paradigms and resolutions to problems.

Feminists (and the MSM) don’t want to ask women why they’re not more involved in male dominated areas, because they’re afraid of the answer they’ll get. They need the straw man of Patriarchy to blame…not woman’s innate interest and abilities.

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Opus April 28, 2012 at 12:39

@Carnivore

Thanks.

I think I can safely say that we have no Tornado chasers, but we do have (or used to have before EBay) collectors of old gramophone records. I know because I used to frequent Record Fayre’s, and truly women collectors (and dealers) were as rare as Hen’s Teeth. I took my girlfriend to one once (paid the entrance fee too) and she walked out after thirty seconds.

I don’t think that we are allowed to collect or possess Guns.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Art Vandelay April 28, 2012 at 13:16

I was just thinking, do the feminist men think they are better feminists than women?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
Brian April 28, 2012 at 13:21

Anyone who talks about there being not enough members of group X (women, minorities, whatever) in group Y (banking, military branches, and now Wikipedia editors, whatever) usually is someone who fallaciously believes that disparities in outcome is evidence of discrimination. If you follow mainstream media, you’ll find this theme over and over again. For anyone who wants to learn more about this fallacy (among topics in economics and politics), I highly recommend you lookup economist Thomas Sowell. The Hoover Institution has done wonderful talks with him on their program Uncommon Knowledge (a magnificent show) which you can view here:

http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uncommon-knowledge/by-guest/9767

Sowell also writes articles on a number of his interests, usually matters of economics and politics, for anyone to read here:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell1.asp

If you like Sowell’s material, you should also lookup Walter E. Williams, another economist who also researches some of the fields Sowell does.

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Eric April 28, 2012 at 13:38

Ryu:
‘You spend your time on what you value’

That’s one of the profoundest statements heard here in a long time. Americans, because of their Marxist/Feminist education are taught that everything is ‘values-neutral’. There is no such thing as a universal value-neutrality and never was. Values are gauged by their productivity and benefit. Good values are productive and beneficial. Indifferent values are neither. Bad values are counterproductive and anti-beneficial. But all have an intrinsic worth to those performing them.

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Avenger April 28, 2012 at 13:42

One of these is fat Justin Knapp, an unemployed thirty-year-old pizza delivery boy who apparently lives with his mother and spends hours every day editing Wikipedia…………

He’s obviously some loser with too much time on his hands who has a compulsion to edit things.

Why doesn’t get a job where he can indulge his compulsion and make some money so he can get out of mama’s house?

Only fools work for nothing. Gates and Jobs were obsessed with computers and loved what they were doing but they also had their eye on the money.
Even slaves get some sort of compensation.Knapp doesn’t even get that.

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Rob April 28, 2012 at 15:12

Ryu:
‘You spend your time on what you value’

That’s one of the profoundest statements heard here in a long time. Americans, because of their Marxist/Feminist education are taught that everything is ‘values-neutral’. There is no such thing as a universal value-neutrality and never was. Values are gauged by their productivity and benefit. Good values are productive and beneficial. Indifferent values are neither. Bad values are counterproductive and anti-beneficial. But all have an intrinsic worth to those performing them. — Eric

I was thinking the same thing. And there is no need to use Wikipedia as an example. There are several men I know who have spent thousands and thousands of hours working on Men’s Issues and studying them to very deep levels – far beyond what one would learn in any university. These men are often right here, on this very board, and a good number of them have never asked for a penny in return, nor even recognition, since they are doing it under pen-names.

These men are found all over the MRM. Often, most of their payment comes in the form of insults, yet they keep plugging away at it anyways.

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bobsutan April 28, 2012 at 15:22

Wikipedia is very biased against men. Look what happens to the articles relating to Men’s Rights. Meanwhile the feminist pages remain, despite being chock full of the same flaws they claimed were the reason for the MRM pages’ deletion/culling.

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universe April 28, 2012 at 16:32

If/when Wiki commences financially renumerating editors, or one in particular, for time spent on their chosen work expect lame whore feminists to step in and demand their decietful criminal thieving a/a and quite possibly even the removal of Knapp.
If true blue mangina witenitery and crooked feminist incontence is part of that outfit the unethical sacking of such a workhorse shouldn’t prove too difficult.
If this be the case, so much for the non-partisan assembling of knowledge and the level headed use of it.

Repressive medieval church leaders and the administrators of scripture were rightly condemned for their decades of powerbroking ethical and moral guidances to the common folk. Can those at Wiki claim immunity from such drastic similarities given that they refuse to inform the so-called world about what is best known by leaders of the men’s issue movement?
If they take their own assumed moral high ground and refuse to acknowledge an ever growing assembly beyond their control, and god knows what else, they’ll have to eventually recognize their own distinct parallel to those previous monsters of history.
They will get left behind when not acknowledging this mrm presense, plus anything else intellectually inconvenient to them, and the rest of the world will see that. A million ‘edits’ may very well have been spent in vain.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Ted April 28, 2012 at 16:36

“It may turn out that most female wikipedia editors are in fact censors rather than editors in the true sense of the word.”

Why do the censoring yourself when you can get some man to do it for you?

Wikipedia editors have their self-image bound up in what they do. The return is to their egos, since they don’t get any money for it. There is nothing a woman is more expert at than manipulating a man’s ego.

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keyster April 28, 2012 at 17:01

“I was just thinking, do the feminist men think they are better feminists than women?”

Only in that they believe they’re adding unique insight, while validating whatever feminists believe from a male perspective. Other than that male feminists have all women firmly placed on pedestals high above them. They relish “male guilt” and worship of women, not as equals, but as superior beings beyond reproach and contempt of any kind.

They acknowledge and accept that man are the problem and women are the solution. They consider themselves “refined” men of
transcendent conscience closer to a plane with women or “feminine wisdom”. They’re indocrinated into the Cult’s dogma.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3
Avenger April 28, 2012 at 19:01

@Opus- females collect things too, they just collect different things eg. shoes :)

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Twenty April 28, 2012 at 23:19

Hey, thought experiment:

If Wikipedia’s contributors and editors were overwhelmingly female, which of the following would we be more likely to hear?

a.) Bleating about the lack of male contributors/editors, questions about why they don’t want to contribute, suggestions that sexism is responsible for their absence, and calls for actions designed to increase their participation.

b.) Crowing about how new technologies empower the rise of women and signal the end of men. “Look at how women are changing the world now that they’ve throw off the shackles of patriarchy”, &c.

The overwhelming rule in the modern narrative is: Metrics by which men excel demonstrate the continuing prevalence of sexism, and measure problems to be solved. Metrics on which women do better measure the wonderfulness of women.

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Oddsock April 28, 2012 at 23:33

Little Britain. USA. The American Hunter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goARbRuLAVo

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
Opus April 29, 2012 at 03:40

@Avenger

You are quite right, and I have never met never mind heard of a male shoe collector.

I once (for some reason I cannot recall) allowed a woman to store all her dresses in my spare room. There must have been almost a hundred. All worn once and never again – and now she can’t fit into them.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Avenger April 29, 2012 at 04:11

@Avenger

You are quite right, and I have never met never mind heard of a male shoe collector

There probably are some since men are so varied that they may collect anything.

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Avenger April 29, 2012 at 04:12

I once (for some reason I cannot recall) allowed a woman to store all her dresses in my spare room. There must have been almost a hundred. All worn once and never again – and now she can’t fit into them.

That’s Karma lol

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Avenger April 29, 2012 at 16:49

Nicole Houde, 26, of Manchester, was arrested Wednesday after allegedly punching, kicking, scratching and biting her boyfriend Scott Nickerson, 33, police said.

.

She’s a savage beauty.

A former Miss New Hampshire USA punched, kicked and bit her boyfriend last week during a vicious attack after he accused her of sleeping around, CBS Boston reported.

Manchester cops said ex-pageant queen Nicole Houde, 26, flew into a rage on Wednesday morning when Scott Nickerson, 33, took her phone and wouldn’t give it back.

The brunette stunner was arrested later at work and charged with simple assault.

Houde was crowned Miss New Hampshire USA in 2010 and later competed in the Miss USA pageant.

She now works as a make-up artist, personal trainer and pageant coach, according to her website.

She’s not the first Miss USA contender to run into trouble with the law.

Earlier this month, Rima Fakih, 26, who won the crown in 2010, pleaded no contest to drunken driving charges stemming from a bust in December.

In May 2011, Miss Wisconsin USA Shaletta Porterfield dropped her bid to become Miss USA just a month before the contest after she was charged with identity theft.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hampshire-usa-arrested-biting-kicking-boyfriend-attack-article-1.1069537#ixzz1tTfyNBkP

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Hf April 29, 2012 at 18:48
TFH April 29, 2012 at 19:29

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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continent April 29, 2012 at 22:59

Because I often used Wikipedia, now I’m skeptical of its reliability because
well informed opinion/comments. But for our cause W.F.Price is also a hero like the two mentioned in the article.
I looked on Wikipedia’s explanation of its editing policy.
http://www.wikiexperts.us/?gclid=CI_0jKfx268CFQJp4AodSjfvDA
But how objective is Internet itself if you look up a topic. Who controls what stays and what goes out?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
continent April 29, 2012 at 23:05

Addendum.
Wikipedia’s explanation why comments get deleted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Why_was_my_page_deleted%3F

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Hf April 29, 2012 at 23:31

continent says:
“But how objective is Internet itself if you look up a topic.”

Oh, the internet can be objective, but search engines ala Google, Bing, etc, are not objective. The trick is to be able to sift through the subjective drivel, to recognize propaganda, and find bits of truth and then piecing those bits together.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
joeb April 30, 2012 at 03:41

Wc is right If female editors where contracted , it woulds turn into a big censorship project aimed at some fruitless effort to turn all knowledge into a abortion rights or VAW enforcement schemes.
There’s to much revisionist history already ,one would think a white Male never Built a bridge or tower if women had a say in that .

The thought Too funny, The sears tower was built in 1953 , By white male feeding off the caucuses of aborted baby’s. While enslaving women to produce food of this nature . a wiki fact .

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Eric April 30, 2012 at 04:03

Avenger:
Looking at Nicole Houde’s photograph, I would hardly call her a ‘brunette stunner’. I would have guessed her age at 36 rather than 26.

But then again, this is ‘beauty’ by low American standards.

Still, I can’t help but wonder about the guy she beat up. Most American men (other than the Futrelles who are in deep denial) are very well acquainted with the types of losers that current and former beauty queens seem to seek out. Somehow I’m envisioning a puny, limp-wristed metrosexual who temporarily succumbed to a sudden, involuntary spasm of manhood and ended up getting his ass kicked by a girl. I wonder if he’s on his knees now down at the jail begging forgiveness and trying to get the charges dropped LOL.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
continent April 30, 2012 at 05:10

Hf,
Thanks for the advice. I didn’t realize the search engines controlled the content. I went to Metacrawler and there found the deleted
Wikpedia story on Thomas J. Ball.
http://powernpraise.com/Krazie316/Thomas_James_Ball.htm
If someone else has advise like Hf please make us aware of it. With
gratitude to Hf. Continent

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Hf April 30, 2012 at 06:55

Hey come on! Why cant I post a link, good sir? Seems relevant, and some folks may even be happy to hear. I would figure this a good thing, but wanted to know what everyone else thinks-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2137076/Hallelujah-A-family-court-judge-told-truth-damage-divorce-wreaks-children.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Donkey April 30, 2012 at 07:28

From my experience with one wikipedia editor, the website seems to be a place for propaganda than information.

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AntZ April 30, 2012 at 07:58

OT: Democrats defeat equal parenting for fathers in New York

TODAY, Monday Apr 30, the New York chapter of the National Organization for Women (NOW) is celebrating the defeat of A330. The bill would have granted New York fathers equal custody rights.

Predictably, the NOW declared multiple action alerts to stop the bill. They went so far as to publish a series of articles in the pro-feminist Albany Times Union, calling fathers “predominantly ineffective,” saying that most fathers are “not involved in the lives of .. children”, and affirming that the “NOW has always favored primary caregiver presumption legislation to ensure stability and continuity of care for children.”

http://www.glennsacks.com/nysp/index.htm

The feminists defeated the bill using every under-handed tactic in the book. Ultimately, the bill was shelved based on non-existent technicalities.

The bill was defeated along party lines. Republicans defended equal rights, while Democrats fought for continued discrimination.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 17
Uncle Elmer April 30, 2012 at 08:23

Why Women Are The Worst Kind of Bullies

elmer concurs :

Female-on-male harassment and “bullying” behavior is rampant and fully condoned through corporate policies to protect and enable women. I have experienced it personally on every job I have had.

The worst of it comes from mannish females who exhibit aggressively hostile behavior and dirty, underhanded schemes to destroy male competition. When confronted they instantly revert to “poor female victim” mode in a chameleon-like transformation that allows them to match Encorpera’s diversity fabric where they can rest and recharge (“work-life balance”) before launching their next assault.

Thing is, men instinctively understand they may get physically assaulted if they pull this crap on another man, and thus restrain their knee-capping to more masculine tactics. Unfortunately, with the increased feminization of males one is also likely to encounter trans-empowered male co-workers and their shiftless survival mechanisms. A man that has balls can be quite confounded in developing an appropriate response while maintaining his job security.

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universe April 30, 2012 at 09:24

Beautiful ^ .
Uncle E., you’ve pulled off yet another successful coup.

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keyster April 30, 2012 at 09:41

“Unfortunately, with the increased feminization of males one is also likely to encounter trans-empowered male co-workers and their shiftless survival mechanisms.”

Passive-aggressive behavior now rules the day in Encorpera.
Just say you agree or you’ll do something and then don’t do it. Say you forgot or you’ve simply been too busy. (Everyone is always too busy in Encorpera.) Managers no longer hold workers accountable for work; Peers or co-workers on “Project Teams” or “Commitees” do.

It’s so much easier to blow off co-workers that need you to do something. Managers hide in their offices and surf the internet or “work from home”, while the workers flail about without direction or leadership.

Don’t DARE complain about a male everyone likes, or any woman or minority. They’re clearly held to a different standard in Encorpera. If they do less work or constantly make mistakes, it’s your duty to pick up the slack or monitor them and help them. That’s what being a “team player” means to management.

Heaven forbid management should actually have to step in and correct a person’s behavior. They’ll do nothing and say nothing, until the next lay-off. All of Encorpera keeps a super-secret list of “undesirables”, they keep at the ready for people they’d like to see “transitioned on with their lives”. Stay off that list. Don’t say anything and do as little as possible, while always apearing to be overloaded with “work”.

NEVER leave your cubicle without paper in your hands.
ALWAYS manage the perception you want people to have of you.
You’re politically neutral and relatively harmless at all times.
NEVER be critical of anything or anybody.
ALWAYS be ON! Never let your guard down.
Everything is always “super” or “great”, no matter what it is.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1
Oddsock April 30, 2012 at 09:45

And yet Erin Pizzy explained this type of female behaviour in her book exactly.

Excerpt.

The family of the emotional terrorist well may be characterized as violent, incestuous, dysfunctional, and unhappy, but it is the terrorist or tyrant who is primarily responsible for initiating conflict, imposing histrionic outbursts upon otherwise calm situations, or (more subtly and invisibly) quietly manipulating other family members into uproar through guilt, cunning taunts, and barely perceptive provocations. (The quiet manipulative terrorist usually is the most undetected terrorist. Through the subtle creation of perpetual turmoil, this terrorist may virtually drive other family members to alcoholism, to drug-addiction, to explosive behavior, to suicide. The other family members, therefore, are often misperceived as the ‘family problem’ and the hidden terrorist as the saintly woman who “puts up with it all.”)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
TFH April 30, 2012 at 11:03

Here is a major economic blogger who is starting to see what a scam feminism is.

But his commenters are feminists and manginas.

Strike force time!

Invade! Invade! Invade!

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 26
freebird April 30, 2012 at 12:29

The cops love ex-parte laws, it allows them leeway far beyond Constitutional limits.
Same goes for judges and “officers of the court” it pays SO well!
Federal mandates and military training.
The female CPS officers are refereed to in the press as “civilians”,hence 2nd class dads are “combatants.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Uncle Elmer April 30, 2012 at 12:51

My dad used to get “Time” back when I was a kid and I would read it cover-to-cover, eagerly anticipating the obligatory “breast shot” sure to accompany their movie review. Hey, it was the “60s”, we didn’t have internet. Things improved for me somewhat when I got on Peter Gowland’s mailing list.

With my “Disqus” account I am now part of the Time journalism team.

A Mom’s Work Is Worth $113K Annually. Or Maybe About Half That

elmer :

Criminy, western women are forever complaining about their pay and benefits while steadily losing their marketable domestic skills. This has caused a flood of foreign workers eager to take up the reigns in the rather generous home-making arrangements that western females are abandoning. Because a man wants a wife, not a “co-worker” :

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/02/20/a-man-wants-a-wife-not-a-co-worker/

Generation X Report: Men Spend More Time in the Kitchen

elmer :

Western females have few marketable domestic skills. Most men have learned to cook and are capable of performing this task with aplomb, not to mention the rather easy chores of house cleaning. It leaves little left in terms of desirability on the part of western women that will entice a man to consider matrimony. I wrote extensively on this topic in a recent edition of The-Spearhead :

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/02/20/a-man-wants-a-wife-not-a-co-worker

NHL Hockey Teams Who Wear Black Are Called for More Penalties

elmer :

Most likely it’s a cognitive perception threshold issue, but the race professionals here at “Time ” will surely be able to infer a discrimination problem.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Uncle Elmer April 30, 2012 at 13:12

Maybe with some work and the right connections I could become Time’s “Troll of the Year”. Or at least get Elmer’s mug on the cover for “Man of the Year : The Internet Troll”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
TFH April 30, 2012 at 13:32

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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TFH April 30, 2012 at 13:33

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Uncle Elmer April 30, 2012 at 15:40

Not Married Yet? Look for the New Mr. Right

elmer tries not to be cynical :

Good luck with all that, because a man wants a wife, not a “co-worker”. This essay explores the topic along with the obligatory inter-racial stock photos too :

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/02/20/a-man-wants-a-wife-not-a-co-worker

And when you get that figured out, this advice helps pave the way :

5 Easy Steps to Get Him to Propose

http://universityofman.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/how-to-get-him-to-propose

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Justinian April 30, 2012 at 15:42

The reason I want the Strike Force to invade is because the main blog host is on OUR side, and is on the brink of taking the red pill. He is a major blogger with a wide readership, and we need to push him to the bright side….

The commentators there look like the typical pre-MRA, moderately successful upper middle class men who have no problems getting married to a quality woman.

Unfortunately their privileged status blinds them to sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. In my experience, those types will continue to mock you no matter how hard you try to reason with them right up to the day when they are hit with divorce papers.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Rob April 30, 2012 at 19:28

You could always go put a sticky note above his urinal, TFH.

It’s a lot easier to criticize those that came before you for not doing things to your liking, than actually getting things done, isn’t it?

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Eric April 30, 2012 at 21:04

Elmer & Keyster:
That description fits Academia as well as Corporatoria, except for the part about ‘political neutrality’. As much as Academia likes to preach moral relativism and values-neutrality, there is no tolerance for morals and values not in keeping with ‘political correctness.’

Academia, of course, is a leech-like institution feeding off the public dole; so it isn’t surprising that they reflect the same structure as their host-body, the Bureauracy.

The bright spot in the whole picture is that the ‘men with balls’ (as Elmer describes them) are increasingly shunning Corporatoria, Academia, and Bureaucracy and turning to genuinely productive pursuits; about at the same rate that they are abandoning feminized American women and turning to more worthwhile options. We’re in a Dark Age now, but the Renaissance might be just around the corner.

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TFH April 30, 2012 at 22:11

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Rob April 30, 2012 at 22:51

Oh, TFH, we tried to tell the Prophet, but you were too smart to listen.

Let me give your ideas a Triple Yawn!

And you’re damn right I’m opposed to Paul Elam declaring he will viciously undermine anyone who opposes starting up a White House Council on Boys and Men. That is an unelected bureaucracy that is not accountable to anyone.

I’m currently going through the process of explaining it. I’m not ashamed nor backing down.

All you’ve done so far though, is climb up on everyone’s back and screech that they are doing it all wrong.

You are kinda like Monica Lewinski. Not famous for any real achievement, but only for fucking someone who has achieved.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7
Rob April 30, 2012 at 23:03

This link is even better!

Invade! Invade! Invade!

I didn’t listen to anyone. I know everything. I’ve only written two articles! I’ve criticized the MRM as useless for my first year and undermined EVERYONE who has done something…. and now I’m giving out my Maxims, because nobody was as smart as me, ever.

You undermined me for a full year, shitbrick.

You get what you sow.

Why don’t you “invade” on your own?

That’s what guys like me did.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6
TFH May 1, 2012 at 00:41

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 00:59

Bring it on. Horse-cocksusker.

I haven’t lasted this many years in the MRM because I’ve never met a horse’s dicksucker like you.

Paul Elam couldn’t humiliate a goldfish in a bowl. Bring proof, asshole. I’ve already provided two links showing what a fucking LIAR you are.

My enemies usually fuel me to make me stronger. They always have.

Ask Zed and Angry Harry, who you have apparently been given permission to speak upon their behalf. I don’t know what’s going on with them, but I’ve known them long enough that if they have a problem, they”ve got the balls to say it my face, rather than through the Fifth Cock Sucker.

Show me, with evidence, where Paul Elam ever humiliated me, or stfu.

And, btw, I’m not done with Paul Elam, another fucking Baby Boomer telling the rest of us about his version of “utopia.”

And you, TFH, have accomplished JACK SHIT.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 17
Rob May 1, 2012 at 01:02

Why can’t you “invade” that site on your own, Shitbrick?

Don’t you have enough knowledge on your own?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 12
Rob May 1, 2012 at 01:07

The ONLY reason I didn’t stomp on your mouthy neck two years ago was because Zed asked me not to.

That is over now.

Watch your step, shitbrick.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 15
Rob May 1, 2012 at 01:22

Maybe you could continue to run around the MRM telling everyone I am worse than Manboobz, because I don’t want to support the fifteenhundreth dipshit who thought he was the first to propose such a a plan.

Good god, horse’s dicksucker.

We even provided you with different versions that would work, but you were TOO SMART, and told us all to fuck off.

You, after all, have a 165IQ.

I’ve never met so many geniuses as I have in the MRM.

GFY, asshole.

What a bad enemy you have made.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 14
migu May 1, 2012 at 05:58

Activism is a fools game. There is not one single activist group that has made their lot in life better. Not a single damn one.

Not even ghandi.

Let’s see 1964 civil rights act. Hooray activists won, except now black people are even more discriminated against, and they live in squalor mostly.

Women’s activists? Ha, they are all so happy now. Oh wait did I say that.

Child advocates…may as well call them activists too. What happened here. Hooray children are now routinely kidnapped at the arbitrary whim of said activists.

Native American activism? Go visit a reservation.

Begging for scraps only affirms your helplessness, get off your ass and plant a farm. Distinguish it from the outhouse. Put up food for sale signs instead of shithouse invitations.

Activism the surest way to slavery.

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Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 06:13

Well said Migu

The Ten Commandments of Self-Worth for any Man seeking the Red pill

I. Thou shalt not consort with people who make thee feel bad about thyself.

II. Thou shalt cease trying to make sense out of crazy behavior.

III. Thou shalt not keep company with those more dysfunctional than thyself.

IV. Trust thy body all the days of thy life (thy mind doth fornicate with thee).

V. Thou has permission at all times to say “NO,” to change thy mind, and to express thy true feelings.

VI. What is not right for thee is also not right for thy brethren.

VII. Thou shalt not give beyond thine own capacity.

VIII. What thy brethren think of thee mattereth naught.

IX. Wherever thou art, therein also is the party.

X. Thou shalt sing thine own praises all the days of thy life.

We can never change other people, only ourselves.

TFH & Rob

A wise man once said; The fools battle with each others ego, the sage battles with his own.

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Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 06:21

The Rules for Being A Man

1. You will receive a body.
You may like or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.

2. You will learn lessons.
You are enrolled in a full time informal school called life. Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant and stupid.

3. There are no mistakes, only lessons.
Growth is a process of trial and error experimentation. The “failed” experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiment that ultimately “works.”

4. A lesson is repeated until learned.
A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can go on to the next lesson.

5. Learning lessons does not end.
There is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned.

6. “There” is no better than “here”.
When your “there” has become a “here”, you will simply obtain another “there” that will, again, look better than “here”.

7. Others are merely mirrors for you.
You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself.

8. What you make of your life is up to you. ( MGTOW )
You have all the tools and resources you need, what you do with them is up to you. The choice is yours.

9. Your answers lie inside you.
The answers to life’s questions lie inside you. All you need to do is look, listen, and trust.

10. You will forget all this!

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 13
Towgunner May 1, 2012 at 06:55

Hey off subject, but has anyone noticed the feminism in ads lately taken on new energy?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
Towgunner May 1, 2012 at 06:55

Hey off subject, but has anyone noticed the feminism in ads lately taken on new energy?

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Rmaxd May 1, 2012 at 07:36

LOL @ Rob/migu

Trolling against activism on an activist site = fail of epic proportions …

Go back to your oprah & Jerry Springer, you couch potato morons …

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 07:44

I don’t really care.

TFH spent his first year in the MRM doing nothing but screech like a little girl that WE didn’t do enough. WE weren’t anything but “writers” on the internet.

He drove AH away, making him so angry.

When Zed says, in the above link, that I burned out, it was really burn out from having TFH run up behind me and undermine me for a year, with Zed asking me not to shit kick him all over the place, which I didn’t. That is why I hung up my hat.

We tried to explain to him what worked and what didn’t, but he didn’t want to listen.

So, what does TFH do in HIS activism? Become the 300th guy to think up URL’s at Urinals. We told him why it didn’t work, and he told us we were full of shit. We told writing on the internet worked much better. We pointed to him campaigns like Wedded Abbys that actually were successful. He told us all we were nothing.

And then he decided to become an “activist” himself. How? By posting URL’s above urinals encouraging men to come and hang out on websites complaining – the EXACT thing he criticized us as being “nothing” for.

His own Misandry Bubble article has gotten hundreds of thousands of hits and has done far more to reach people than the 1,500 URL’s above Urinals he now claims he is an “activist” for. If he would have shut up and written another 20 or 30 articles, he would have been a far more effective “activist” than he is now. And gee, just by being a “writer” on the internet.

Now here he is, encouraging OTHER people to go another site and “invade, invade, invade.” In other words, being the exact kind of internet activist he screeched and wailed about was useless, driving other old-timers away claiming it was not real activism.

Now he claims ONLY him and Paul Elam are “activists.”

He has no good arguments to go an “invade” on his own, the way the rest of us “nothings” used to do.

He appointed himself a leader, by driving other active people away, and now even gives out his own Maxims, yet we don’t know what they are, because all he does is hang out in the comments sections of internet forums trying to gain upvotes and stroke his own ego.

In the year and a half I was away, I’ve seen him run around on other sites in the MRM, even running up behind Zed telling him that Rob Fedders is worse than the libelous fool Manboobz. I wasn’t even AROUND!

He’s been a dissimulative little shit ever since he arrived.

I can go into a site like what TFH has pointed out, and actually do the job myself – I have done so hundreds of times – and I can do it on my own.

Now, TFH is running around claiming that the reason his URL campaign didn’t work is because OTHER people weren’t pulling their weight, only HE was the activist. It is everyone else’s fault. But HE is a glorified freedom fighter.

The truth is he didn’t do his due diligence and find out why it didn’t work the first 1,000 times before.

We’ve long figured out that if it is to be, it is up to me. But he called us clowns for that.

I know I’m being a disruptive prick about this, but no more of a disruptive prick than TFH was when he ran off others for being MORE effective than he has shown himself to be.

He refuses to take responsibility for himself. I don’t really feel like letting him off the hook.

Sure loves to stroke his own ego, though.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 6
keyster May 1, 2012 at 07:53

A circular firing squad?
A call for Anti-activism Activism?

There’s so much harmony here I can barely stand it!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3
Rob May 1, 2012 at 07:54

LOL @ Rob/migu

Trolling against activism on an activist site = fail of epic proportions …

Go back to your oprah & Jerry Springer, you couch potato morons … — Rmaxd

Welmer has repeatedly stated this is NOT an activist site, nor an MRM site. It is a magazine about Men’s Issues – full stop.

Are you the horse TFH rides around on?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 7
Rob May 1, 2012 at 08:02

A circular firing squad?
A call for Anti-activism Activism?

There’s so much harmony here I can barely stand it! — Keyster

The reason for “anti-activism” as you so call it, is because the constant conflict between feminism and MRA’s will only lead to bigger, more intrusive government.

MGTOW is designed to stop this kind of thing, and bring awareness, rather than large government.

You talk about Cultural Marxism yourself. You should then study the dialectic and understand which ways build, or shrink government power over our lives.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6
Rob May 1, 2012 at 08:36

You guys should have studied Zed a little closer. The reason I used to follow him around so much was first, because he knew more than anyone else, and I wanted to learn, and second, because he was the best damn “ninja” I had ever seen.

Zed could go into a forum – alone, and with a few months have the whole place MRM friendly. He did it at Diary of a Tired Black Man – as a white guy – alone!

If TFH wants to “invade” that site, fine. But it’s going to take some effort on HIS part. He’s gonna have to know his poop, and hang out there for 2 or 3 months, slowly plugging away at it. He’s going to have to have some good, solid arguments to back him up beyond “TFH’s Maxims.”

Some articles of own to inject would help, but just in case he doesn’t have any, I’ve saved and individually linked Zed’s arguments here and his Eye of the Mind site can be found here. He has given explicit permision to anyone and everyone to use his words to further the MRM – use them to be a Ninja. You can copy his words directly and claim them as your own. Angry Harry has also given everyone permission to use his words directly in a similar fashion.

I’ll tell you what’s NOT activism, though. Hanging out on a site like the Spearhead, yapping at other LIKE MINDED people about how women are going to die alone with cats. You have to go outside of the MRM to be “an activist.”

What places like this are good for is to educate ourselves and build THEORY.

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Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 08:39

The only way things will change is by men waking up and choosing their own path. Trying to change others, especially women and/or feminists is pissing in the wind.

It is men that must change, simple as that.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 08:42

For those of you guys who find “Game” so distasteful because of its lack of morality, I’ve spent several years working and re-organizing The Book of Bonecrker so that there is a form of “game” out there, written by a guy who MRM friendly, is intelligent, and adheres to a moral code – things like “don’t fuck people’s wives – ick.”

The Men’s Tribune has lots of great stuff to back up your arguments, the problem with it is that it was only in scanned book form. Most of it has now been transferred here where it is now individually linked, so that people can use them directly to back up their Ninja activities, or to build theory on sites like the Spearhead.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 08:48

For you, Keyster, I’ve now spent SIX years relating Cultural Marxism to the MRM. Everyone else talks about Cultural Marxism, but hasn’t the balls to talk of it in relation to feminism – that was my job. My whole site is about it, to help people get their arguments together. Now I’m back at it again. All I can do is study it, write it, and offer it to you – for the rest, you have to put in the effort to actually learn it and pass it on.

The reason I am opposed to Shared-Parenting or Farrell’s Council on Boys & Men is because it furthers the Marxist Dialectic. We could so easily become unwitting useful idiots, giving feminism it’s final, ultimate goal – to take children away from mothers and communally raise them, so that their biology doesn’t stand in the way of their equality.

And fuckin’ eh, I’m opposed to the MRM being Useful Idiots to further feminist & Marxist goals. Why aren’t you?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5
universe May 1, 2012 at 08:49

The three writers I’ about to address contributed much to further think over in terms of developing a consciousness for reaching out to other people.
Migu – yes, there are unintended consequences to main purposeful actions. Including ours.
Odd Sock – yes, we’re here to learn something. And always.
Rob – yes, but we’ve, or some have, learned a lot of what this men’s activism stuff has taught us a long time ago. Let’s progress.

Having assimilated the ideas of these three writers one question with me at this brief moment remains at how and to where in the future do those most concerned with men’s issues wish to effectively transplant ideas and actions into the greater public consciousness without actually causing more grief to anyone involved.

Whatever. A passing thought.

I admire those who even believe they are making an effort in raising awareness for the scope of men’s concerns. And moreso those who’ve proven themselves over time with their committed and ceaseless written work. We know who these people are. And I thank them for what they have done.
I once aspired to be the latter of these individuals but realize that there are many who do a much better job than where my faculties currently reside. And my paid work contributes very little toward that end as well. I’m somewhat left in the category of wall putty, filling in gaps, if even that were the case. As much as the committed to the issue as many are here I want to see something come about from all this combined time and talent of ours – both the novice and the familiar with the issues.
Among what what Rob contributed above, it was noted that in the mrm there are more leaders than followers. True enough, it seems. In one way this could be a good thing – having a conscience, but to a point this can be ineffective. The feminist movement thrives on its followers, bleating on about packaged fabrications. And look where that got them – unearned wealth distributed to them basis their illusions.

It was decided long ago by many if not all in this, our, growing pained assembly that we are to have no bullshit amongst us.
The Islamacists somewhat call this inner working a jihad. I only used them to make a point. That Oddsock rightly reminds us to remove the bullshit or illusion from ourselves first.

So, I’ll go first. I admit my shortcomings as a commentor on men’s boards. While allowing myself to get swept into the zeitgeist I likely repell others with my convoluted and poorly expressed ideas. I wish for a betterance but also within a betterance of purpose. Thanks for your patience with me.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 09:00

The best, most effective “URL’s Campaign” that has ever existed is Wedded Abbys which was written by Puma. I highly doubt he would object to others using it.

Puma used to scan google news for articles about dating and marriage (ie. – OUTSIDE the MRM) and go in there and leave a little one or two line comment with a link to his page.

He hasn’t been doing it for I think two years now, but my site STILL gets hits from Wedded Abbys on a daily basis.

About 7 years ago, I used to do a similar thing by spamming porn forums with my Yahoo group.

TFH certainly wasn’t the first to think up a URL’s campaign. It’s been tried so many times it’s ridiculous. That’s why guys loooked at different ways to make it work – which TFH refused to listen to. Now he blames OTHERS for his failure.

Wedded Abbys is the most successful URL’s campaign around – and it’s much cleaner than sticking post-its above urinals. Ick, who would stick a post-it from a public washroom in their pocket, then run home and look it up on the web? Would you? And how many would you have to put up in order to reach the thousands of people Puma did in a matter of minutes?

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 09:10

Furthermore,

The MRM will never be a “movement” like feminism. Movements are for herd creatures – like women. Men are individuals and live outside the herd. Further, a men’s “movement” that resembles feminism (like what Farrell wants) would further the conflict tradition, which is the Marxist plot for removing freedom by creating situations where people REQUEST the government to have more power over their lives. How about we DON’T do that, eh?

MGTOW was all about “let women win the war of the sexes.”

If it’s a tug of war, let’s let go of the rope, watch the girls fall on their asses, laugh, and walk away.

The Only Winning Move is Not to Play

We need to create an “awareness movement” rather than a politically active movement. We need to pass feminism’s cultural shit test and go our own way.

Women are as independent as a tropical fern in a greenhouse in Iceland. If men walk away, they will follow. Hell, they even follow us to Men’s Sites where we do nothing but rip them a new one – but they are here for the attention and to remind us that it is our job to care for them.

That’s what the “nothing-nothing” plan is all about. We will just walk away. Marriage must be completely destroyed – it is so fucked up that “fixing it” is only going to make it worse. Something new must be recreated in its place… and it’s WOMEN’s job to come up with a plan to make it suitable for men to want them back in their lives in any meaningful way.

We are the prize. They only have pussies. What are you offering us besides your over-priced pussy, ladies? It had better be a pretty good fucking deal too, because even marriage 1.0 wasn’t all that sweet… the nothing nothing plan looks better ever day.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 7
Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 09:21

Universe & others.

Guys. It can and often is a very bumpy painful ride. We often forget choose to ignore or remain completely oblivious to our individual programming and prejudice. We can argue until we are blue in the face about who is right or what method works etc etc. It ain’t gonna change anything one Iota. At best, if the guy is already starting to look a little deeper it can result in Red Pill moments. A long and painful process but the gradual change in some of the posters views is noticable.

This process is also a good indicator of how far down the path a guy has travelled. In a nutshell, it’s all about awareness and awakening to reality and mans true ( shitty ) position in the grand scheme of things.

We can argue and hurl insults at each other on just about any topic you care to mention until the cows come home. Arguing or promoting politics religion or race et al is not the solution, they are only our prejudice and faulty programming being aired in an attempt to see who has the biggest dick.

Men are still very much the whipping boy cannon fodder wage slave pack horse for every fecker ! We still have many so called MRA’s that want nothing more than slightly improved prison conditions and still believe in things like sending millions of young men to die in pointless wars etc.

A good start for us all would be to say; N0 More !

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7
Rob May 1, 2012 at 10:03

“Men are still very much the whipping boy cannon fodder wage slave pack horse for every fecker ! We still have many so called MRA’s that want nothing more than slightly improved prison conditions and still believe in things like sending millions of young men to die in pointless wars etc.”

One thing the “MRM” is going to have to do is start recognizing the Truth about men’s lot in life.

Women are always going to be treated better than us, just like children are always going to be treated better than adults. It has been this way since the dawn of time, and it will be that way until closing time – that is, unless you are God and believe you have the ability to change human nature.

In Genesis 39, Joseph was falsely accused of rape by Potiphar’s Wife.

In Judges 4:21, we find the story of a woman going to Heber, and driving a tent peg through his temple, killing him in his sleep – just like Mary Winkler.

Belfort Bax talks about Parental Alienation Syndrome 100 years ago – it’s been happening ever since women got presumed mother custody codified into law in 1873. This is also the beginning of the divorce craze – rather than the imposition of No Fault Divorce in the 70′s. (Women have ALWAYS left men more than men have left women).

Bax also relates stories such as a woman driving over her husband with a horse and wagon, then backing up over him again. Just like Clara Harris did to her husband a few years back.

Bax was the Angry Harry of 100 years ago – I think AH must be one of his descendents.

The word “vitriol” used to describe anger comes from women in the past who would buy “vitriolic acid” and throw it in the face of men who had jilted them – the man’s face would be scarred for life, and women were rarely punished for it.

Women have always yipped and yapped and aggravated the shit out of men. What do you think the Scold’s Bridle was all about?

Dr. Richard Driscoll provides evidence that 14% of men always have misogynistic attitudes towards women, while 34% of women always have misandric attitudes towards men.

“Misandry” is a feature of human nature. We can reign it in and control it, but we will never be able to “end” it.

These things are parts of human nature, not something that just magically appeared since 1970.

This does not mean that there aren’t things men should fight for. There certainly are things we can fight for to make our lives better. But we also have to be realistic about it – unless you are a Boomer/Marxist/Utopianist who still believes that Man is God, can change human nature, and create Heaven on Earth.

We can certainly fight to make our lives better, but at the end of the day, women will STILL be treated better than men, and children will still be treated better than adults. It is human nature.

Men are best at seeking the Truth, and then building upon those Truths. Some Truths are not all that fun to discover, but it is very masculine to discover them and then build something better with it.

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universe May 1, 2012 at 10:14

A good start for us all would be to say; N0 More !
– I Hear (Hear) you, Oddsock.
It comes to a matter of how, then.

I’m being convinced of what Rob had recently written above and what many others have in the past as well. The GOOW. That acting autonomously amid the deadly and sordid drama around us. (I believe, Oddsock, that you’ve even expressed similar if not exact wording to the GYOW concept. Yet I’ve been unconsciously doing this all along).

Rob later termed it ‘letting go of the rope’ and then (my wording) the cows will then begin to herd behind us (after landing on their backsides).
But just as in bringing around others to one’s thinking, as Rob demonstrated with his and Zed’s own writings on other somewhat unrelated board sites, there is a time factor involved with watching the consequences once disengaging from enemy fire. However long that takes is partially immaterial but as long as it is done is what is.

So, if enough of a consorium of the like minded were to exist to make a that much of a difference, without giving up one’s own autonomy but adhering to a sensible ethic, the best manner, perhaps, to achieve a unified while engaging a simultaneous individual arrow finger, might be to keep writing as we are, informing each other to the best that our consciences will allow. Unification through divergent individualism?
(OK, beginning to sound like one of those ruling pigs on that dreadful farm with that one).

It appears now that I’m somewhat plagiarizing Rob or others, but keeping interested parties informed on what’s occuring in the world and allowing each man to direct their own conscience relative to this information might have to suffice in what we currently have at our activist disposal.

(Glad to be here reading the thoughts of others above. Very much useful and somewhat lacking in the personal real time company I’m familiar with).

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Rmaxd May 1, 2012 at 11:17

Thats some creative spam Rob …

Now try stating your drivel without flaming the regular posters on here & behaving like a basic troll …

If you want to make a point, point to new campaigns etc., go ahead

But flaming ppl & calling out regular posters on this site, is pretty backward, & you risk sounding like

…. the new Peter Andrew Nolan …

Seriously theres no need to flame ppl, we’re all on the same side here

These are some great commentators you’re calling out here

Nobodies going to take you seriously if you charge into a site & start blindly flaming commentators & regulars …

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 11:18

Go fuck yourself, moron.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 11:25

Furthermore, Rmaxd, YOU are the one whose stepped in between in. You are doing your own flaming.

It’s NOT a new campaign. It’s been the same campaign for years and frickin’ years now.

I have been and am a regular poster here. I’ve also been highly active in the MRM for eight years now – for two or three years pretty much as a fulltime job.

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Migu May 1, 2012 at 11:31

An important truth to Remember is Briffault’s Law.

Your relationship with a woman exists at her whim based upon what you provide her. It will always be this way. Hmmm what should you do?

Find out what benefit it is you are providing and take control of that. When you come to understand Briffault’s law you can safely remove the camel from the tent, or at the very least you have the means of domestication at your disposal. Or as a woman would probably relate, “The relationship tool box”

Fortunately for you as a man you need only a “relationship tool” namely Briffault’s law. In baser terms, if you want her go for her properly equipped, if you make a mistake then use the same tool to perform a safe extraction.

Understand also Briffault’s law is just a recent recitation of what lies within all ancient human texts. There is a reason for this. It is the foundation of social knowledge. It is axiomatic. It is not right or wrong in any kind of moral sense, it just is. The morals are deduced from the axiom, and if they do not conform then they are lies.

I figure anyone following understands the dialectical staircase by now. Where did it come from? It came from the ancient world. You can see early incarnations of it within the school of Sophocles. The Bible refers to the stair climbers as The Philistines, and The Pharisees. These folks are the ancient Marxists.

If anyone wants slackademic backup then google it. I suggest you start with the phrase a priori.

Universe,

Just go about it, and implement it into your own life. If you want to do some of it online then do it. If you want to throw phrases like “shovel the gravel” around in your immediate circle do it. If it doesn’t work, admit it and don’t do it again.

That is how you “activate” Much better than being an “activist” An activist is someone else’s tool. An activist pleads for activation, he never realises the remote is in his pocket. He always wants others to push the ON button. You need only look at the history of “activism” to confirm this.

The point is to always do it your way, and nobody else’s. When in doubt look to your foundation. Did you start building in the sand? And if someone plays the “You aren’t doing right fool” card, then you say, “Cool man I’m still going to do it this way.”

It works for me anyway.

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Migu May 1, 2012 at 11:42

I’ve seen people do this same shit to Irlandes, Zed, AH, JadedGuy, Ragnar, Lee, Duncan in Idaho, Christopher in Oregon and on and on.

Don’t take on a veteran. Ask him about the war.

What happens to civilian fatbodies who pick fights with Marines?

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keyster May 1, 2012 at 12:07

@Rob
“And fuckin’ eh, I’m opposed to the MRM being Useful Idiots to further feminist & Marxist goals. Why aren’t you?”

There’s a virulent Leftist/Liberal/Progressive element in the Men’s Movement that causes rifts and disention. They believe they can appeal to the “Humanist” element of the culture; trying to group men and boys as yet another victim class. They HATE conservatives and/or Republicans, yet they’re against special rights and privilages for women (feminism), because it’s not true “equality” with men.

They cunstantly struggle to reconcile Feminism with their Marxist/social-justice/egalitarian worldview. It’s my belief it can’t be done. They rant and rave about any hint that a So-Con is promoting women or “shaming” men, as if that’s the biggest problem. And then downplay anything Democrats do; to promote the “war on women”, etc.

Indiviualism – – personal responsibility and self-reliance – – is the only answer to the condition of men and boys. Since Conservatism is based in these tenets, it’s the only logical position to take.

Perpetually trying to MARKET Men’s Rights through a
humanitarian/egalitarian narrative is NEVER gonna work, because without the oppressor, there can be no oppressed. It’s the way it’s been so cleverly set up. It’s class (gender) division and critical theory – ie Marxism.

I spend my time enlightening Conservatives to feminism and men and boys. That’s the correct vehicle because the ideology suits it. All conservatives really know about feminism is abortion and contraception. They have no idea about ruses like VAWA and false rape accusation and fathers rights. And they listen.

Liberals don’t listen because if you’re for men and boys, you must be against women, etc. and so on…

I work with mostly conservative female pundits because they get it; mostly the older ones. The men are either afraid to speak or in white-knight mode.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 12:09

“I’ve seen people do this same shit to Irlandes, Zed, AH, JadedGuy, Ragnar, Lee, Duncan in Idaho, Christopher in Oregon and on and on.”

It’s why the MRM never gets anywhere. The average lifespan of an MRA is three years, then he gets a blowjob, falls in love, and forgets there ever was an MRM.

Then a new crop of guys replace them, and it all starts over from square one again. Usually with someone like TFH showing up, climbing up on everyone’s back and screeching that everyone is useless and has been doing it ALL WRONG or hasn’t done enough yet to make me happy.

The MRM stays eternally at age three, because every three years it pretty much completely renews itself. All the guys that have “learned” have disappeared, and they are replaced by a new crop of newbies who know everything better than the few guys that have actually stuck around… and then the new guys do everything in their power to undermine the living shit out of the guys who DO know something.

Over and over and over again.

MGTOW started in large part because the MRM only consisted of pussies who wanted “me-too-ism.” As in, gender equality, which is just simply impossible. DV Shelters for men, Title IX for men, Shared-Parenting ad nauseum… of course all of them build government, rather than shrink them.

And who, out of all, has done men the most harm?

Government!

So let’s keep making it stronger, eh? Let’s invite more of it into our homes! That’s real smart.

Another thing that keeps happening is people claiming we have to be polite and respectful or we won’t be taken seriously.

However, as Angry Harry has delved into this deeply, that is exactly the wrong approach. You have to be angry and mean, and threaten to take away people’s power.

When the APA declared homosexuality to be deviancy, the gay community sent death threats, smashed windows and caused such a ruckus, the APA retracted all they had ever said, and never said boo about homosexuals ever again.

When the Suffragettes got their way, they sent death threats, they smashed windows, they tore up golf course links etc etc etc.

Angry Harry, and MGTOW, of course, does not promote doing anything illegal. But don’t apologize either. Threaten to take away people’s power. Threaten to expose them publicly as bigots – truthfully – and plaster it all over the internet so everyone knows about it.

“Activism” is all about moving the fringe. The MRM spent YEARS trying to make sure it was not “too radical” and did everything they could to suppress itself.

But that’s just not how it works. For example – when I first found Angry Harry, he was THE most radical blogger on the web. I shit you not. What AH was saying, NOBODY dared to say. Today, he looks like just a cuddly little pussy cat. The “fringe” has moved and AH is now the normal, not the fringe.

When everyone finally does stand up and take notice – which they are doing – they will look at a wild, crazy mother fucker like me, then look over at Angry Harry, and say to themselves “we should deal with that Angry Harry guy, cause he’s more middle of the road and reasonable than that Rob guy.”

Andrea Dworkin, the Great Walrus, was such a raving lunatic, plus was so scary looking, that she did more to promote “nice feminists” like Gloria Steinem than anyone else, including Gloria Steinem.

The point of “activism” is to move the edge of the road until it becomes the middle of the road. Make the fringe the norm – that’s why any successful movement needs the fringe.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 12:19

@ Keyster,

I’ve struggled with the same things you are discussing.

In the end, my conclusion became thus: We need to stop trying to create a 100% “Men’s Movement” but instead try to make other movements 20% MRM.

There’s a lot of people angry right now about massive government spending – the Tea Party, for example. So MRA’s have to go there and not talk about ALL MRA issues, but point out how much money is being wasted promoting feminism… how much welfare is caused by divorced & single moms etc. Let them take “that 20%”

Then you go over to the “conspiracy guys” like Alex Jones, and start working in how much feminism & the laws it has created are designed for population control, or have given the government access into our homes and personal lives… let him take that 20%

Go to Christian sites and start shoving the Bible down their throats, but ALSO, show how the Bible is a “civilization builder” by putting the male as head of the household… they get that 20% – Give them something to support of our ideas.

Go hang out on… motorcycle forums… and talk about how great it is to not have a wife nagging you all the time. Talk about all the guys who you used to ride with whose wives forced them to sell their bike when they got married… they get that 20%.

And so on, and so on. Until there is a 100% “Men’s Movement” – except it doesn’t really exist.

Men are at the bottom of the pile. Expecting people to feel sorry for us just isn’t going to work – but the MRM could easily work itself into OTHER movements until bit by bit, all other movements have “our” elements as part of their own.

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Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 12:39

Hmmm.

As I said previously, it is a long and painful process working through our faulty programming and individual prejudice.

When the student is ready the teacher arrives.

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Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 12:41

Mr Price

Sorry. Just eaten my spearhead donation. Mmmnon mnom, dialapizza !

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Migu May 1, 2012 at 12:56

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Migu May 1, 2012 at 12:58

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keyster May 1, 2012 at 14:13

@Rob
You and I are in violent agreement sir!

I went to get my golf clubs re-gripped the other day. I asked the young Golfsmith behind the counter if men were putting the hot-pink grips on their clubs. He said he just did one for a kid on the local high school golf team.

It seems the golf coach gave each player an assignment to make a “positive humanitarian” statement with their dress or equipment and he chose a pink grip for his driver because his statement was “breast cancer awareness”.

The young Golfsmith really lit up and went into a raging rant about his father having prostate cancer and how nobody cares about men and women get all the money for their health, etc. – quoting statistics. Of course I schooled him in Men’s Rights as he re-gripped my clubs. He was very relieved to find out such a movement was afoot; I left him more enlightened – – a low dose Red Pill.

There are some VERY angry guys out there that don’t even think to combine “men” and “rights” in a Google search. The Red Pill is a big commitment.

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Avenger May 1, 2012 at 14:13

Pinky: “Gee, THC, what do you want to do tonight?”

THC “The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world!”

I actusally think that THC and his boys are going to invade the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 14:46

@Rob
You and I are in violent agreement sir! — Keyster

It can be a lot more fun than hanging around aggravating MRM forums too.

The most fun I’ve had with it was hanging out at Mike Rowe’s “Dirty Jobs” forum, from the Discovery Channel.

I kept asking why it seemed that all of Mike’s Dirty Jobs seemed to be jobs performed by men.

There were a bunch of women there all drooling and gaga over the guy, talking about how sexy he was. They pointed out one or two shows where there were women. (I think one was a military girl who had to climb inside airplane engines to clean them).

Anyway, I just put it forth as a rational argument. I know the Discovery Channel doesn’t gender discriminate because they have fairly decent gender equality on other shows… but how come, Mike, it seems that on your show, almost all of the dirty jobs are done by men? Surely you must be able find dirty jobs nobody wants to do which are performed by women. Could it really be that 95% of all the worst jobs in the world are done by men? This just doesn’t jive. It couldn’t be that women are discriminated against, and thus aren’t given the opportunity, could it?

He responded to me a few times, lol, he is a very smart man. He carefully crafted his words (which I don’t blame him for) and said he noticed these things too, but perhaps it was best for him not to delve too deeply into it on the Discovery Channel’s forum.

Lol! Doesn’t matter, I made my point, and it was kinda fun. Never talked to a “celebrity” online before.

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Boxer May 1, 2012 at 14:58

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 15:05

Boxer has already been responded to.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 15:13

I don’t think anyone promised you a web page, Boxer. You keep coming up with all of these goal-post shifting claims. It’s why people think you are a woman or a plant.

As I recall, we last left it that since you try to discredit the Marxist angle by claiming we are all wrong because it’s actually Trotskyism and the Neo-Cons…

And I tried, and tried and tried to get you to answer one simple question:

Was Trotsky a Marxist?

Yes or No.

And, as I recall, you simply refused to answer this question. I even said I would accept the U of Wikipedia as a valid source on this one.

You still haven’t answered.

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Rmaxd May 1, 2012 at 15:40

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Rmaxd May 1, 2012 at 15:45

For the record im not in THC’s camp, or anyones camp

All the idiotic trolling & flaming’s ridiculously counter-productive

@Rob

If you dont like the MRA go create your own movement, nobodies interested in your whining idiocy

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 15:51

@ Rmaxd,

Your own arguments are very solid, I see.

Btw, I did create my own movement – it’s called MGTOW. Well, I didn’t create it, but I was there from close to the beginning.

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Rmaxd May 1, 2012 at 15:55

@Rob

Btw I just noticed you told me to fuck off earlier up

For the record he told me to fuck off here, @ http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/04/28/the-american-lei-feng/#comment-147351

Here’s my reply, since Price is obviously not moderating this thread …

Right back at you Rob, go fuck yourself you ignorant wanker

While we’re on the topic of telling ppl to go fuck themselves

& Price is obviously not moderating this thread

Heres a fuck you to Keyster for agreeing with cunts & wankers like the prick that is Rob

Go fuck yourself Keyster, ignorant cunt

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Boxer May 1, 2012 at 15:58

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MRAwesome May 1, 2012 at 16:01

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:07

So, this is backing down the staircase to nowhere and getting back on the road to somewhere?

Is that necessary? Can’t we just jump off? I mean that’s what I’ve done, it kind of hurt but I’ve healed.

“Moving the Fringe” I get it, it works. Are the means reconciled with the ends? It seems so. I mean, when you take a wrong turn you backtrack to the last known navigational point. — Migu

Sure, the best immediate solution is just stop it, on a personal level.

But say, the crew over at Dalrock’s, or the shared-parenting movement, could use “the fringe” to make it reasonable to discuss presumed father custody, rather than “fixing” marriage 2.0.

F. Roger Devlin discusses this in his piece about Rotating Polyandry and its Enforcers

“Men, I fear, will have to demand nothing less than the full reestablishment of what feminists call patriarchy—the male-headed family as the normal social unit. This may be a “radical” idea, given how far our society has gone offtrack, but it is hardly revolutionary. It is really just the radical restoration of the natural and traditional order of the human family. Baskerville doubts whether a return to father custody can “find acceptance beyond the fringe of political debate.” I think he is mistaken about this. There is no such thing as a fixed “fringe” to political debate. One of the most important forms of political activity consists precisely in moving the fringe. It took much more determination on the part of homosexuals to get us to where “gay marriage” is discussed with a straight face than it would for normal men to restore the presumption of father custody. Indeed, I suspect that men, once politically united, could dictate almost any terms they wished to women.”

The shared-parenting movement can spend a decade fighting to create mandatory shared-parenting, and inviting the government further into our lives, or we can a decade or two “moving the fringe” and recreating that which has always been in Western Civilization up until 150 years ago. Devlin is right, is at least a form of marriage with presumed father custody more ridiculous than what a small percentage of gays have done to be taken seriously on gay marriage?

What would be a better solution for, say, Welmer’s kids when they are grown up? Shared-parenting/further government intrusion, or father-custody/less government? It’s not a ridiculous thing to go back to the beginning of the staircase. In fact, if you go back to the beginning of the staircase, all the other arguments built upon it suddenly will fall to bits. I tried to write about this once here.

Everyone is always fighting “the last” step in the staircase. They should just ignore all of it and destroy the first step. The example I used was based upon “Gender is a Social Construct.” All you really have to do is demolish that one, and with time, people will demolish the rest of the staircase on their own. (ie. If gender is NOT a social construct, how long will it take before Title IX gets challenged by some pissed off college boys? And so on…)

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Boxer May 1, 2012 at 16:09

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Avenger May 1, 2012 at 16:09

@Boxer-you’re deluded and besides I never said anything about making a page about a nonentity like you. It would bore everyone to death lol

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:10

Shouldn’t have said this to me then.

Go back to your oprah & Jerry Springer, you couch potato morons … — Rmaxd

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MRAwesome May 1, 2012 at 16:12

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:12

MRAwesome,

Are some kind of sock-puppet that is really TFH or Boxer?

Btw, I provided two links further up in regard to TFH – one was written by Irlandes, and the other by Zed, which fully backs up my argument.

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Boxer May 1, 2012 at 16:14

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:19

MRAwesome.

Brilliant argument.

The MGTOW Manifesto, May 1, 2006

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MRAwesome May 1, 2012 at 16:25

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:26

You’re the same Rob Fedrz who got sledgehammered into rubble by Paul Elam? I[‘m not surprised. — MRAwesome

The reason I think you’re a sock-puppet was because all that happened between me and Paul Elam was I blew a gasket over him writing a post “What the Fuck is Wrong with Jack Donovan” – because Jack Donovan dared to criticize The White House Council on Boys and Men. Paul threatened to undermine the living piss out of anyone not supporting it.

And I challenged him to debate me on it, quite angrily… and we never did. Then I got pissed off, probably too much, because Zed and Angry Harry supported the guy so much.

But as far as I know, Paul Elam and I have never, EVER had a debate.

So I don’t know how he could have “sledgehammered me” in a debate that never took place. TFH keeps claiming that he humiliated me too… except, I don’t know how, unless he was writing posts on his site about me that I’ve never read.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:27

What? Those links do not support your points at all. They are not relevent to your claims and don’t even mention TFH. Do you even read your own links?

Can you read? Those two posts were made in regard to the URL’s campaign only FOUR days after TFH came out with his great plan to save the world.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:29

Lol! The two links I provided BOTH specifically discussed someone named “Bob Sides” trying this campaign all the way back in the 80′s.

Apparently you didn’t read them at all, did you?

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MRAwesome May 1, 2012 at 16:32

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Boxer May 1, 2012 at 16:40

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MRAwesome May 1, 2012 at 16:46

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:50

Actually, I’ve commented on that post recently. Right here. At the Spearhead.

Also, if you actually had read the two posts above, you would also see in it that Zed discussed “Fedrz” in it.

You obviously are pulling a stunt here.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 16:54

Perhaps you ought to provide the “proof” of Paul Elam sledgehammering me and humiliating me.

The only person who talks that way – EVER – is TFH. And I haven’t a clue where he gets it from. In fact, after the whole incident, I believe the threads both here and at Paul’s were closed down, so as not to have the Battle Royale.

Also, TFH continually speaks on behalf of Zed and Angry Harry in relation to me, but since I’ve known them both on boards and via e-mail for several years now, I highly doubt they would ever let TFH speak for them rather than saying it to my face.

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keyster May 1, 2012 at 17:16

“I blew a gasket over him writing a post “What the Fuck is Wrong with Jack Donovan” – because Jack Donovan dared to criticize The White House Council on Boys and Men. Paul threatened to undermine the living piss out of anyone not supporting it.”

I think you mean the Men’s Studies Fondation deal at that Wagner College on Statton Island, NY. Paul was a big supporter of it and Jack Donovan criticized it for allowing Guy Garcia and taking a decided male feminist turn. Now there’s a rift among the academics regarding the whole concept. Of course Michael Kimmel go involved too.

Jack Donovan saw it coming.
Paul Elam was hoping for the best.
It’s other men there who couldn’t agree that undermined it.
Sound familiar?

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Boxer May 1, 2012 at 17:32

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 17:43

@ Keyster, yeah, that might have been it.

Both of us over-reacted. But certainly no big battle took place, so I don’t know why TFH keeps lying about this shit.

I have always made it clear, that I was concerned that all of us plebes would “shovel the gravel” to create awareness and then some Alan Alda type with a Ph. D would step in after that, and be granted the authority to lead us down the staircase to hell.

Quite frankly, I don’t give a shit about Paul Elam. He leaves me alone, I leave him alone. However, I just will not tolerate it to be told that we cannot criticize certain parts of the MRM. The MRM used be full of little Kingdoms in a Teapot like that… it was MGTOW that broke free from it and started bringing some real new thought into Men’s Issues. Before MGTOW, it was Political Correctness Uber-Alles.

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Rob May 1, 2012 at 18:07

Of course Michael Kimmel go involved too.

This is what I see happening in Canuckistan all the time – on the state funded CBC TV/Radio.

In order to bring in “balance” to the argument, they invite that fucktard Kimmel to represent “men’s views.”

The “MRM” has to be on guard about this. We don’t need a “me-too-ism” movement led by another fucking academic retard. That is just “furthering the agenda.”

Who would you rather represent you? Kimmel (Feminism), Farrell (Androgyny), or Angry Harry (Men)?

My answer comes quite quickly, and I won’t be PC’d out of the debate.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 4
Rob May 1, 2012 at 19:07

You’re the same Rob Fedrz who got sledgehammered into rubble by Paul Elam? I[‘m not surprised. — Sock Puppet TFH or Boxer

I’ve NEVER been known as Rob Fedrz.

It is Rob, Rob Fedders, or Fedrz.

Further proof of the sock-puppetry happening here.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 4
Rob May 1, 2012 at 19:16

Just to let you know, you guys haven’t even gotten close to insulting me the way we used get insulted 6 years ago.

If I didn’t get a threat from someone once a day, I wasn’t doing my job.

I used to post “Usefull Idiot Quote of the Week” just for dweebs like you guys.

Been here, done this.

Calling me a pusillanimous little turd… now that deserves an ovation.

But these insults are rather dull.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5
keyster May 1, 2012 at 19:26

“However, I just will not tolerate it to be told that we cannot criticize certain parts of the MRM.”

There’s definitely a certian “orthodoxy” that you’re expected to adhere to, or else. My favorite one is that the MRM should be purely apolitical – – which is code for attempting to appease the leftist types.

If at least half of your benefactors are left-leaning, you have to be careful of how you position certian subject matter or you risk alienating a bunch of “activists”. You tediously give equal weight to SoCon shaming and chivalric themes to appear fair and “just” in your editorial content.

You can stand on your head and scream about the Liberal/Progressive/Democrat Feminist machine, and they’ll go to extreme lengths to point to bad behavior by a conservative somewhere at some point in time, just so they can claim “See, they’re all just as bad”. It’s how they try and reconcile the conflict of being a Liberal/Anti-Feminist.

There was one liberal MRA I got into it with who said they were going to vote for Obama again no matter what because they’re union and their family is union and they alway vote democrat. The cognative dissonance of liberal MRA’s (and most liberals) is astounding.

As if “the Party of Women” would even dare recognize something called “men’s rights” vis a vis their single largest voting bloc – – single women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
Rob May 1, 2012 at 21:10

I’m still sitting here waiting for the proof of Paul Elam “sledgehammering me:” and “humiliating me.”

It’s been a few hours now.

Can we safely call you fucktard liars by now?

Or have you sock-puppets just gone home from work, and have run out of terminals to separately post on?

Proof.

Please.

I doubt even Paul Elam would support you yapping this way, because I don’t think he wants to bring it up again either.

Proof.

Sock Puppets.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 7
Rob May 1, 2012 at 21:23

No no, I’ve backed up my accusations with proof, but there are several fucktards here, who like women, level charges without being able to back them up.

Proof please.

Or stop calling yourselves men.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 8
Rob May 1, 2012 at 21:24

Boxer still WON’T answer if Trotsky was a Marxist either.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 5
TFH May 1, 2012 at 22:45

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 25
Oddsock May 1, 2012 at 23:25

On a beautiful summer’s day, two American tourists were driving through Wales .

At Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyllllantysiliogogoch they
stopped for lunch, and one of the tourists asked the waitress,

“Before we order, I wonder if you could settle an argument for us. Can
you pronounce where we are, very, very, very slowly?”

The girl leaned over and said…………….“Burrrr Gurrrrr King.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 13
Eximio May 2, 2012 at 00:46

I’ve noticed that Wikipedia erases any and all entries to the Men and Fathers’ rights movements. The “editors” – whoever they are – even erase any reference within another topic to Men and Fathers’ rights. They are extremely diligent in their political correctness.

I once tried to edit the Wikipedia entry for Senator Patty Murray. I don’t think I wrote anything scandalous. I simply pointed out two things:

1) That she was voted the dumbest senator by Congressional staffers for 7 years in a row. That’s a fact. Seems relevant to me. Nobody, including Wikipedia, seems to have a problem with pointing out a man that is deemed low in intelligence.
2) That she is a controversial figure among fathers’ right groups in the state of Washington. In fact, it was an incredible understatement to only call her “controversial” among fathers’ rights groups in that state.

Both of those edits were gone by the next day. I assume my IP address was banned from editing as well.

If you check out their entry on VAWA, the two sentences that discuss opposition are carefully crafted to make the opposition appear like cranks. For example, if you are to believe Wikipedia, only “conservatives” oppose aspects of VAWA, which is hardly the case.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Avenger May 2, 2012 at 01:19
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 4
Rob May 2, 2012 at 04:04

I don’t think you know what ‘proof’ is. — TFH

If on the Spearhead, we cannot use Anonymous 69 or Zed’s words as “good enough” after they’ve been involved in the MRM for decades and are highly respected around these parts, then I don’t know what further proof you want.

Do you really think I’m about sift through five or ten years worth of forum posts just because YOU demand it? Lol, there were even guys who used to go around to universities sticking “URL Bookmarks” into books. There were also guys who used to write URL’s on dollar bills. I don’t have prove anything further to you than simply having Zed say it was a good idea the first 1000 times it was proposed.

And of course, you claim that thousands of men have become exposed because of your flyer campaign… yet, there are not thousands of men, nor even one so far as I know, that have showed up around here saying, “Hey, I got this URL from above a toilet at a McDonald’s Restaurant.”

But now I have to spend hundreds of hours sifting through years of forum posts because the mighty Prophet demands it? Get real.

Who the hell is Chuck at GL Piggy compared to Zed as an authority on this? I’ve only read GLPiggy a few times, and he certainly hasn’t been around for decades… so, who gives a shit?

I don’t have to jump to your tune.

But let me ask you this. Do you think you’ve reached more people with your ONE Misandry Bubble article than you did with your flyers? I’ve seen you say before that the Misandry Bubble – one article – has had something like 100,000 or 150,000 hits.

Are you telling me that the effort spent writing your one good article was not a more effective campaign than your stinky-note campaign?

Give it a rest, TFH

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5
Depravo May 2, 2012 at 06:05

Have to go with the negative nancies on this one.

Pursuing offbeat interests alone for the sheer joy of it is part of manhood, but it’s impossible to admire a navel-gazing shutin with what sounds like end-stage OCD. It’s not like he’s creating anything, just screening other people’s work and slotting it into an encyclopedia that too was the work of others.

There’s also that Wikipedia editors are some of the most self-important twats on God’s earth.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
migu May 2, 2012 at 06:19

Hey you guys missed one of rob’s posts. It still has 20 to 3 in favor.

Where are the rest of your steers and geldings horse boy?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6
Boxer May 2, 2012 at 06:38

Dear Depravo:

There’s also that Wikipedia editors are some of the most self-important twats on God’s earth.

I’m guessing you’ve written an article or three. They’ve pissed me off too; though I try to remember they have a nearly impossible and utterly thankless job.

Wikipedia is a fine place to start when researching a new topic, but nobody with more than three neurons to rub together takes it as the ultimate authority on anything. The people who work on it seem to forget that simple fact.

Regards, Boxer

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 12
TFH May 2, 2012 at 10:55

Rob,

Give it a rest, TFH

An admission 0f defeat, eh?

You still can’t provide proof, via link, of any flyer campaign done before 2011, that links manosphere flyers to websites.

You lose (as usual). Case closed.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12
Rob May 2, 2012 at 11:19

Oh my god.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
TFH May 2, 2012 at 11:59

That is right. You just cannot provide a link of any such campaign of tying flyers to manosphere websites that was done before 2011.

Thus, your claim falls flat. YOU fall flat.

What Zed said was entirely different than what you said. I don’t disagree with Zed at all, but you are wholly misinterpreting his words to fit your inner demons.

You lose. Case closed.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12
Rob May 2, 2012 at 12:02

@ TFH,

I suppose it’s safe to say then that Anonymous 69 and Zed are liars, eh? That’s the logical conclusion of your claim.

After all, if Zed saying it was a good idea the first 1000 times, and you claim that’s not good enough, then you are essentially saying that Zed was lying too.

I knew you were pathetic, TFH, but this is just ridiculous.

Have you begun to “invade” that site yet? Or are you just barking orders to everyone else, and complaining that nobody else is an activist because they aren’t taking “General TFH’s” orders?

Seriously, go “invade” the site. But, it doesn’t work – even if you could muster a strike force – to just show up with a bunch of guys and argue and screech. That works on places like the Atlantic where a virulent feminist rips men, but not in the situation you are discussing.

Someone will have to go there, and not speak solely of MRM issues, but speak the content of the site – with an MRM bent that slowly gets developed over a few weeks to a few months. In other words, you will have to go there, establish some credibility, and slowly start introducing your ideas over time, until you have convinced the forum owner and the major contributors to feel comfortable with their new attitudes. Then you will also have to show him how to not be manipulated and knocked around by the people who will oppose him.

If 20 guys showed up on his one thread, screeched and shouted their arguments – and only on that one thread – you would likely drive the guy further away from ever writing about it again, rather than bring him closer to MRM goals.

Are you currently doing this? Or are you just barking orders at others to do what you would like?

If it is to be, it is up to me.

But then again, what do I know, eh? I’m just a poor lonesome country boy with nothing but chicken wire to sit on and a rusty old marble to play with.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
Rob May 2, 2012 at 12:24

TFH, you can even find small elements of what you are talking about in MGTOW manifesto. For crying out. Does it take effort to be this obtuse, or does it come naturally?

The MGTOW Manifesto

What we do as activism or the way we behave personally are the main tactics.

- Use of a logo which symbolizes the strategy.
- Run one or many web-sites and fora that promotes this.
- Run one or more web-sites which tells the truth about feminism.
- Provide stickers, T-shirts, etc., with various statements such as “Chivalry is dead!”.
- Writing articles supporting our product.
- Producing music promoting our product.
<b?- Hold international events and local meetings.
- Establishing men’s clubs.
- Boycotting certain products.

Oh, I get it, TFH. I need to find someone who specifically said flyers. If I say “urls on dollar bills” that doesn’t count. If I say “urls on bumper stickers” it doesn’t count. If I say “t-shirt campaign” it doesn’t count. If I say “url’s on bookmarks campaign” it doesn’t count. If I tell you I personally had a URL’s campaign which spammed porn sites, and got 2 or 3 people to sign up a day before the site owner would take it down, it doesn’t count. If I point to Wedded Abyss’s highly successful URL’s campaign (because he did his due dilligence), it doesn’t count… Ad nauseum.

And, you cannot provide evidence of your campaign actually working – nor that anyone besides you is actually doing it. The biggest problem with the MRM is that you can’t get even ten guys together for more than a week to work on such a campaign. We tried to tell you that too, but you wouldn’t listen. Where are all the men who are showing up here from the URL campaign?

And let’s not forget, TFH, your first year of screeching was about how we were nothing because all we were was a few writers on the internet. You claimed we were “nothing” for that. So… tell me, how does posting flyers directing others to the very people you claim are “nothing” make you an activist above those “nothings”?

“Hyuk hyuk. You guys are nothing. So I will direct people to your nothing activism, and THAT makes me a better activist than the rest of you nothings activists.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
TFH May 2, 2012 at 12:33

Zed’s exact quote, from your own link :

“Now, 1,000 men posting URLs above urinals is a pretty good idea ……IF there is a good site at the end of that URL that organizes the content and the messages in a coherent fashion. ”

Which is exactly what my campaign does.

Are you currently doing this? Or are you just barking orders at others to do what you would like?

Of course I do it. The site URL is post the most for is Wedded Abyss, which I also mention prominently in the main article. I even told you that I would be happy to personally post flyers for your no-maan site.

Zed himself has mainly encouraged me throughout, and never discouraged, so you are misinterpreting him.

There is no one other than you who is obsessed with obstructing activism. There is a lightyear of distance between feedback (Zed) and obsessive denigration (Rob).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11
Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 12:46

TFH & Rob

You both make excellent comments and points, sadly you both are that lost in your anger and dick waving contest it blinds you both to the fact you are on the same side arguing for the same thing, improvements for men.

Put the handbags down girls, who feckin cares who done what and when or how successful it is or was. Whatever awakens men then it is positive. If you can’t support each other then agree to disagree. If you can’t even do that then I suspect you both have no real intention in growing beyond recovering manginas. By the way, we are all recovering manginas, just different stages.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13
Rob May 2, 2012 at 12:49

You know why Zed does that? Because he’s trying to make you into an activist. Like Anonymous 69 said in his post, it is better for men to do the same ineffective thing for the umpteenth time rather than do nothing at all. Zed’s still got a looooong way to go with you though.

Btw, in that same link, he talks about guys who show up and screech “You’re doing it all wrong! You’re doing it ALL WRONG!”

Who do you think he was talking about? Bob Sides? Or you?

It’s been nearly a year and a half, TFH. It’s time to give it a rest. I mean even aside your blatant lying about me and Paul Elam, and your speaking insults to me on behalf of Zed and Angry Harry, you still refuse to answer if your Misandry Bubble was more effective than your URL’s Campaign. How come? I think it has gotten 150,000 hits now, hasn’t it? Or is it more by now? How many URL’s would you have to post to get that kind of exposure? How much time would it take to put up that many flyers to get 150,000 people to read The Spearhead? How much time did you spend creating the Misandry Bubble?

At the time of writing, the normal person who has no axe to grind in maintaining the contrary, declares the sun to be shining brightly, but should it answer the purpose of anyone to deny this obvious fact, and declare that the day is gloomy and overcast, there is no power of argument by which I can prove that I am right and he is wrong. I may point to the sun, but if he chooses to affirm that he doesn’t see it I can’t prove that he does. This is, of course, an extreme case, scarcely likely to occur in actual life. But it is in essence similar to those cases of persons (and they are not seldom met with) who, when they find facts hopelessly destructive of a certain theoretical position adopted by them, do not hesitate to cut the knot of controversy in their own favour by boldly denying the inconvenient facts. — E. Belfort Bax

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Rob May 2, 2012 at 12:53

TFH & Rob

You both make excellent comments and points, sadly you both are that lost in your anger and dick waving contest it blinds you both to the fact you are on the same side arguing for the same thing, improvements for men.

Put the handbags down girls, who feckin cares who done what and when or how successful it is or was. Whatever awakens men then it is positive. If you can’t support each other then agree to disagree. If you can’t even do that then I suspect you both have no real intention in growing beyond recovering manginas. By the way, we are all recovering manginas, just different stages.

Oddsock, could you please give it a rest?

TFH is an activist that purposefully undermines other activists and drives them away. Sure he does some activism, but he drives off five times the amount of activists so that he is the only one left around.

TFH has been fucking with me for several years now… and I am sick to fucking death of it. I’ve bitten my tongue so many times, at Zed’s request… btw, he requested it of TFH too – but shitbrick wouldn’t listen.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 13:08

Rob

You are both obviously smart guys and your talent is being totally wasted on pointless arguments with each other. Simply do your own thing. Look mate, there are plenty of posters on here that I disagree with on many topics but, I always try and keep in mind they are still doing what they think is right to improve mens lot. I also have to bite my tongue and yes sometimes I also spit my dummy out from time to to time but I realize it is only my ego that is hurt, nothing else and there are much better ways to make a point than insults etc. Also quite difficult given my British sense of humour, often taken the wrong way.

P.s. I doubt TFH will drive anyone away. Biggest dick contests certainly will.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 13
Rob May 2, 2012 at 13:13

P.s. I doubt TFH will drive anyone away. Biggest dick contests certainly will.

He drove Angry Harry away from the Spearhead.

He drove me away from the Spearhead – and in fact – the whole MRM for a year and a half.

Not dealing with someone like TFH and trying to sing kumbaya will certainly not help the MRM either. This isn’t a biggest dick contest. TFH purposefully undermines others. Why should those getting undermined have to eternally tolerate it?

Even when I wasn’t around – for a year and a half – he was still running around trying to undermine me.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 13:24

Rob

I am a great fan of Angry Harry infact, I owe him a great debt of gratitude for saving my sanity. If I had not found his site many years ago I may not have been here to take up the fight. Under what name was he on Spearhead ? Only reason I ask is I hope I never unintentionally insulted him.

I can’t say I have ever noticed TFH undermining anyone.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 13
Rob May 2, 2012 at 13:33

Well, good for you that you haven’t noticed it. So what?

My God, TFH would undermine me, I would come back at him… Zed would ask us both to stop – I would, but TFH wouldn’t, then TFH would prance around on his pony declaring “I won! I won! Me so smartz!”

How long do you think a person should tolerate that kind of crap? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years?

Further, this is not some typical dick-waving contest. What happened between me and Paul Elam was a typical dick-waving contest.

Just like when Boxer comes around, he is not adding to any debate, but purposefully undermining any debate… and when people finally get fed up with him and take him task, here come the Oddsock’s out asking everyone to sing Kumbaya. Another reason the MRM stays eternally age three.

At least throughout this thread, I’ve left loads of links and information and strategies for others to use. This is not just another “fuck you” contest.

And I hope men don’t follow people lying about how successful their useless campaign is, but rather examine which types of activism ARE successful, so the MRM actually gets somewhere.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 14:02

Rob

You are barking up the wrong tree mate. If you truely believe in what you post then I suggest you are way off the mark. You see , it is like I tried to explain, we are all on the same side but coming at it from different angles, not better or wiser just different. Most of us have a personal axe to grind with certain issues or groups and that is what often gets in the way of support and the search for alternatives. Sometimes we need to curb it or we just clash and get nowhere and often clog up excellent threads with pointless arguments.

For instance, personally, I don’t believe there is any value whatsoever in hoping for some sort of political solution and therefore constant posts about cultural marxism or socialism or democrats being the root cause of all our ills is simply nonsense. But, I try and bite my tongue, nothing to do with singing kumbya. For me, Its all about awakening men and path finding. You look down your path I will look down mine. All roads lead to Rome. If we continually post angry comments with insults then it just causes upset and people will just ignore whatever valuable contribution we could have made.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 11
Rob May 2, 2012 at 14:28

Yes, it is so much better to have a social club where we all talk about women dying with cats, than actually trying to find the answers.

The shorter the comment, and the less that gets explained, the better.

It’s why I’m going back to MGTOW and its original principles. The MRM seems so determined to keep itself eternally at age three, there’s hardly a point to it.

It’s why, in that link from Zed, he states that virtually anything that has actually been accomplished in the MRM is done by one man.

And army of one.

For the most part, the MRM is a social club. People hanging out on the same board for years and years and years. Wracking up thousands upon thousands of posts, hopefully gaining millions of Karma points… but never actually poking their heads outside of the Kingdom in a Teapot.

Hanging out on the Spearhead is not making anyone aware of anything, Oddsock. You speak to the choir here.

Good grief.

90% of people “seeing the way” was either created by guys on their own MGTOW blogs, or by “old timers” hanging out on sites like this trying to bring information – often in lengthy comments that have nothing to do with “the social club.”

If it was just all Kumbaya singers, we would still be stuck where we were 5 or 6 years ago – on hidden forums, often with female moderators, begging for scraps of equality that will never ever come.

Peace brother.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2
Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 15:01

Rob

Yes, exactly, we are all an army of one an army of individuals all at different stages of awakening. Its a continual cycle. Remember from whence we came? I even remember Angry Harry’s first site.
Ihatefeminism.com.

A slow process but eventually we will reach the 100th monkey stage. Just keep doing what you are doing, it is working otherwise we would not have so many new MRA websites blogs and youtubes. Marriage rates are dropping like a stone more and more men are choosing MGTOW.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 11
TFH May 2, 2012 at 15:03

but rather examine which types of activism ARE successful, so the MRM actually gets somewhere.

Perhaps you can list these for us.

I asked for this 2+ years ago. As far as I can see, Paul Elam’s activities (register-her.com, etc.) are just about the only ones.

But I would love to be told of others.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12
TFH May 2, 2012 at 15:07

Oddsock,

You both make excellent comments and points, sadly you both are that lost in your anger and dick waving contest it blinds you both to the fact you are on the same side arguing for the same thing, improvements for men.

You should note that it is always he who attacks me (including here).

90% of the time I ignore him.
10% of the time I correct him and point out that he still cannot provide proof of any of his claims (where is the link that proves that a flyer campaign similar to mine was done before 2011? where?).

There is a huge difference between him and me.

I want results, and don’t care who gets them. In a few months, Dr. Helen’s book will come out, immediately making her the person most known for Men’s Rights, even if she hasn’t been part of the MRM.

Rob just wants the MRM to be something where 2-3 people get all the credit, even if this thwarts expansion. This is a view held not just by me, but by tons of commenters at Roissy, Dalrock’s, etc.

So Oddsock, you need to note who attacks who first.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12
TFH May 2, 2012 at 15:08

Oddsock,

I can’t say I have ever noticed TFH undermining anyone.

Thanks. I haven’t. And certainly not intentionally.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12
Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 15:11

TFH

Judas preist, does it feckin matter ? If it works it works. If it doesn’t so what ? We are all doing our best in whatever way we can, constantkly arguing over who was first is nonsense. You both make excellent comments why waste so much time giving away your power and talent to the feminists? They laugh their tits off at all this in fighting. Lose the ego guys, its a great help.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 10
TFH May 2, 2012 at 15:12

Rob,

Even when I wasn’t around – for a year and a half – he was still running around trying to undermine me.

How? I didn’t even mention your name. I didn’t give you a single thought. You just aren’t that important….

Now you are certifiably insane and deluded.

You always pick the fights with ME (and lose). I usually ignore you, and will do so after this.

Lesson : When anyone makes a waaaaaay off-base accusation, projection by the accuser is occurring (Rob in this case).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12
Rob May 2, 2012 at 15:31

Well, TFH, you could examine why Wedded Abyss was so much more successful than your URL campaign.

You could find a guy like Zed and learn how to “Ninja” a site like the one you pointed out.

You could go to Angry Harry – e-mail him even, since you are such close friends that you are allowed to speak badly about me on his behalf – and ask him about forms of Activism which are successful or not. You could ask him how to go after people on the web and take away their power.

You could learn how to google bomb.

You could also, like, create many more articles like the Misandry Bubble, and become a writer on the internet. Even when I leave the MRM and my blog for lengths at a time, my blog still gets around 400 hits a day – which is not much compared to when I blog – but I’ll bet it spreads much more awareness abandoned than your URL campaign does when it is active. When I am not blogging, almost all of those hits come from outside of the MRM.

You could examine Marxism, understand the Dialectical Staircase, and realize which arguments build government and which ones shrink government – then examine which MRM activities one ought to support and which shouldn’t be.

To claim that you and Paul Elam are the only REAL activists in the MRM is ludicrous – and insulting like crazy to all those who came before you.

Are you trying to tell us that Angry Harry isn’t an activist? What about Zed? Are they not “real” activists?

The thing I will NOT support is activism that leads to more government, more androgyny, and more academics telling us what’s the best way to live – eventually by law.

Glenn Sacks, for example, used to do a great job of making people aware – however, I did not, nor ever will, support having men included in Politically Corrected Hate Speach – not that he was saying that directly, but he was heading there. I don’t think women should be protected by speech laws, but I don’t think men should be either.

I do not support “Male Studies” because we don’t need anymore fucking academics telling us “who we are.” We don’t need the equivalent of Women’s Studies. What, are they gonna teach us how to masturbate? Who is going to fund them, and why? Is there ever going to be an end to them, or will they continually find new “problems” to justify their existence? Since when did humans ever need to study what “women” and “men” are. We must have just stumbled along for thousands of years before the might of Academia told us what was right and wrong. This subject belongs under “Social Anthropology.” The End.

I do not support a White House Council on Boys and Men – why would I want to see the government further create unelected bureaucracies accountable to no-one that only serve to grow themselves – Angry Harry calls them “organisms.” They are very difficult to get rid of, and almost always cause more harm than good. One set up for men isn’t going to be any better.

Have you ever noticed that every frickin’ Ph D. involved in the MRM believes the only answer is “more government?” Why in the hell should we support that – just because it is for men?

I have been trying my brains out to figure ways out of this which don’t involve running to the government and growing it – and there are ways… the only thing is, there is always a bunch of clowns around who insist if you don’t support begging the government for scraps, or donating money to lobby groups (organisms) they believe you aren’t doing anything.

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Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 15:39

Stunning simply stunning two grown men arguing for the same side but against each other.

Ok TFH, the ball is in your court. Refrain from a response and I will lend you one of my deluxe sheep for a week.

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Rob May 2, 2012 at 15:41

In a few months, Dr. Helen’s book will come out, immediately making her the person most known for Men’s Rights, even if she hasn’t been part of the MRM. — TFH

Good. Zed pointed out that site several years ago, the way you pointed out one above, and I spent about six months there – sometimes with Zed, but most often alone, bringing in the MRM’s message, rather than the pc-tard one.

In fact, there is even a thread saved about it at Niceguy’s called The Battle of Dr. Helen’s Dating Advice

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Rob May 2, 2012 at 15:57

Stunning simply stunning two grown men arguing for the same side but against each other.

I don’t consider one person trying to grow government versus the other person trying to shrink government to be the same side. That’s mostly what I’m opposed to when I’m opposed to things in the MRM.

Hardly “the same side.”

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Rob May 2, 2012 at 16:01

But you’re right.

I give up. TFH wins – the same way Boxer wins. No matter how much you pin guys like that down, they wiggle, worm, lie, change goalposts… claim they have won, and then do it all over again tomorrow. It’s much like arguing with a woman.

The ease with which TFH lies and shifts things around is simply astonishing.

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TFH May 2, 2012 at 16:12

Zed pointed out that site several years ago, the way you pointed out one above, and I spent about six months there

Good. I would actually very much like for you others to join me at other sites I am trying to convert.

Carpe Diem for one :
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/

The blog host is on the anti-misandry side, tantalizingly close to getting it (he calls out feminism sporadically in economic terms), and becoming a valuable voice. But his commenters are still manginas and whiteknights.

I have been working there for a while. I would actually be thankful if you went in with me too – just like you did with Zed on the other one.

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TFH May 2, 2012 at 16:13

I don’t consider one person trying to grow government versus the other person trying to shrink government to be the same side.

In case anyone was wondering, I am very much on the shrink-government side. This is in all my writings.

Feminism is nothing without large government.

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Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 16:23

Wouldn’t it be great if we could actually give each other the support you suggested TFH. For the record I went to that site you mentioned and made comment basically called it manginaville and called some poster named methinks a raving white knight pussy beggar.

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TFH May 2, 2012 at 16:29

Yes, Oddsock, I appreciate your work there.

The blog host is on our side, but the commenters are manginas. Over time, the blog host will get more aggressive in his anti-misandry articles.

From such activities on external sites, I have recruited people who went on to post a lot of flyers advertising The Spearhead, Wedded Abyss, Dalrock, etc,. It does have a multiplier effect, particularly with guys under 30 who are more willing to do it.

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Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 16:50

Rob & TFH

Take from this what you will. I remember quite a few years back, I was on one of the original MGTOW sites when it came to light that some American guy was in prison on hunger strike in protest over him being jailed for non payment of child support even though he was out of work and in another court his wife had managed to stop contact with his children as he was mentally unstable. He simply asked, if he was mentally ustable how on earth could he also be expected to hold down a high paying job to pay the extortionate child support. Anyway, thats not the point. I asked all of the members of the said board, especially the ones boasting about what they had done etc, how many had actually sent the guy a letter of support? Silence,,, tumble weed rolling across my screen. I sent the guy a couple of letters of support and even got a reply to thank me. He was made up he even had a supporter in the UK. Talk about being made to feel humble, He was thanking me for fecks sake. I wish I had the balls this man had. And you two are arguing over who’s campaign was started first or more succesful. I couldn’t even get his fellow Americans to write him a feckin letter of support. Pfttt!

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TFH May 2, 2012 at 17:04

Oddsock,

There was one politician in the UK, Dominic Raab, who attack feminism on the full spectrum of issues. He appears to be the only Western politician to do so.

I tried hard to get people to write letters of encouragement to him, from the US, Australia, etc. I think very few people did, and there certainly was no organized support.

A politician will only take up a cause that has supporters. That no one voiced support for him means Men’s Rights is an issue he will shelve. And those who complain about helplessness, are themselves the ones who didn’t write a letter when it would have been extremely timely to do so.

Keyster published a list of Senators when VAWA was up for re-authorization in the US Senate. I called a couple of them and gave a spiel. But I am not sure more than a few people did……

My flyer campaign gets around some of these obstacles of ‘not knowing where to start’, and the need to remain anonymous. Most who post flyers are under 30, though.

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Oddsock May 2, 2012 at 17:13

TFH

Angry Harry used to post pro forma letters on his site for readers to print off and send to various people to complain. Not sure how many made the effort ? I think there was once something similar on the mensactivism site ? I also used to have a mensactivism.org bumper sticker on my car but was tore off.

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Migu May 3, 2012 at 07:27

Oddsock,

Angry Harry posted under the names Angry Harry, AH, and Harry

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 07:35

Migu

Really ? Can’t remember seeing him but thanks anyway. In anycase, I doubt very much a man of his calibre would be pushed off any site.

Just wondering, is this Rob posting above the same Rob Fedrz that has been banned from so many sites ?

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 07:45

Just wondering, is this Rob posting above the same Rob Fedrz that has been banned from so many sites ?

What the fuck are you talking about? And who is calling me Rob Fedrz except for the sock-puppets?

Now you are starting conflict, Oddshock. And you are lying. Fucker. I am hardly banned from any sites, except for Pandagone and the likes.

TFH, btw, told me I was not welcome at the Spearhead… so maybe you heard it from him.

God, what a peaceful fucking lover of Truth you are. Asshole.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 07:51

And what’s up with calling me Rob Fedrz? Why don’t you come clean and tell me who e-mailed you that crap. It is Rob, Rob Fedders or Fedrz. And, btw, I believe you and I have known eachother since at least DGM, so don’t act like you don’t know who I am, Oddshock.

There was already the sockpuppet MRAwesome further up this thread pulling the same stunt who I highly suspect was TFH.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 07:53

Thanks Rob. A yes or no would have been suffice

No need to answer now Migu, it’s her alright.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 07:56

Simply stunning, that a grown man like you would start dealing in lies after demanding others sing Kumbaya.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 07:57

Who told you that, Oddsock? And please list where I am banned from. Liar.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 08:02

Rob

If and when you stop behaving like a spoilt teenage female I will chat with you.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 08:04

Go fuck yourself, liar.

You are dealing in lies.

You are starting conflict right after conflict ended.

Where am I banned from?

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 08:07

And how has EVER called me Rob Fedrz?

Liar.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 08:15

I’m obviously not banned from here.

I’m not banned from In Mala Fide – he even links me in his linkage posts.

I’m not banned from Roissy’s

I was never banned from DGM – Lee has even contacted me after DGM went down asking me for info on the Bonecrcker.

I am not banned from Niceguys, nor SYG.

I had troubles with Anti-Misandry about five years ago, letting too many women rule the board – but even from there, I don’t think I am banned. I don’t think Paul has banned me even after our conflict – although I never post there, so I couldn’t tell you.

But whoever is talking about “Rob Fedrz” being banned all over the place is obviously dealing in lies. TFH has run around saying shit like this about me, but it obviously isn’t true.

And… why are you starting conflict out of the blue, Oddshock, by dealing in lies for no reason? And further, why are you acting like you don’t know me from DGM?

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 08:24

Rob

Who cares? It matters not one jot.

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Migu May 3, 2012 at 08:34

Oddsock,

No this is Rob. I think I know where this Rob Federz shit is coming from. Someone did it to Anonymous at age 69 awhile back.

That person posted as Anon 69. A nifty little trick.

Rob has been at this awhile, He is old school on this stuff.

What he says about the three year cycle is correct. Look here it is again at square one. Check out the Britt thread.

Check out his blog, not his blog posts but the side bar.

We say there is no damn difference between the political parties. Rob is saying the same thing, and he’s providing method out. I stepped out by learning economics from the Austrian school. Different path, same conclusion.

Anyway, Rob is not a troll, he’s an old veteran at this.

————————————————————————–

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 08:46

Who cares? It matters not one jot. — Oddsock

It certainly does matter when you ask for conflict to end, then start dealing in lies to start conflict.

Liar.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 09:14

Really ? Can’t remember seeing him but thanks anyway. In anycase, I doubt very much a man of his calibre would be pushed off any site. — Oddsock

He doesn’t get “pushed” off of sites. He just gets so fed up with dealing with people constantly undermining and pulling bullshit stunts that he leaves. He hasn’t been around boards much since he went around to every board leaving a post “Why MRA’s Fail” – he asked on his site, for all of the “activists” on those forums to help him in an e-mail campaign and send a simple, nasty e-mail to someone, I forget who. Hardly anyone could take the two minutes to help out Angry Harry, even though they all talked big talk about how great he is. It really pissed him off. That was about six years ago or maybe even more.

I’ve hardly seen him on any boards ever since – prefers to just hang out on his own site or communicate via e-mail. I was suprised to see him show up here when the Spearhead started up. I was very pleased to see both AH and Zed hanging out on the same site. Didn’t last long. AH got pissed off and left. I e-mailed him about it, but that was a private conversation, so I won’t delve into it further. Occassionally he pops his head up, but it rarely lasts for long.

I think he is 100% right. Look at the bullshit even guys like you pull, Oddsock. Disgraceful.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 12:01

Rob

I actually agree with a lot of what you say, especially about the political parties. Having said that, you do yourself no favours with all this name calling etc. It just makes you look foolish and reminds people of the poster Fartpowder. Put your dummy back in I am on your side.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 14:27

Shut up Oddsock,

Don’t come back here playing Zen Buddha speaking peace and tranquility.

Why did you pick a fight like that – it was unneccessary, the argument was over, like you requested, and then you flung out an insult and a LIE to start it all over again.

You sir, are a weasel.

Go fuck some inflatable sheep. What great insights those are.

Happy 3rd birthday, MRM – again.

I couldn’t be bothered.

Good day.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 14:39

Rob

Shush don’t make yourself into a bigger muppet than you already have.

You obviously crave conflict, it is no wonder you get banned from so many sites.

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joeb May 3, 2012 at 14:44

Rob
The only winning move is not to play.
The second move would be to Cost .
In a country that measures the successes of a program in dollars and cents .
The only thing we can do is figure out ways to cost them ,And let them know the cost .

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 14:49

Explain then why you said that further up then, conflict creator?

Don’t accuse me of creating the conflict you started. That makes you a weasel. And further, who told you that?

List the sites I am banned from, Liar. What a fucking weasel.

Real men find liars more distasteful than people who get angry at said blatant liars.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 14:53

Rob

Now you are just being silly and behaving like a spoilt teenage girl.

Grow up.

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Migu May 3, 2012 at 14:58

Oddsock,

You are missing the foundation sir. Everything you ever linked to me can be found over where rob linked it. (Aside from 9/11 stuff)

Push the fringe right? Remember the lockstep party partisans? See who has come around? Would it have happened without risking herd censure?

You’ve done it too man. You’ve slammed Keyster, you’ve slammed Elam, Firepower, and Boxer. We all have.

Even Avenger is ten times better than a year ago.

The whole point is the MRM or whatever you want to call it, is in a constant circle. The people that get out either sell out, or go their own way.

Who sold out? Decide and forget them, and go your own way. It’s the same thing all three of us keep saying.

I know damn well neither of us care of Elam. So what gives?

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 15:01

No, I am not. You are.

You stepped in between and pleaded with us to sing Kumbaya. I said, I give up, TFH wins because no matter how badly you rout the guy, he still claims victory.

Then you and TFH patted eachother on the back about your great activist activities for several posts – and I didn’t get involved at all. I was DONE.

Then, out of the blue you level a LIE about me that you can’t back up. For all your talk of ending conflict, you deliberately created a new one, based upon a blatant lie.

Now, you don’t want to be held accountable, like a man.

You certainly aren’t the one to be telling others they are acting like a teenage girl. I believe what you are doing is called Dissimulation – behaving like a pool hustler. Something Schopenhauer describes as a feminine trait.

Now you are claiming that you should be able to blatantly lie about me, and any response to your lies is seeking conflict. Get real.

The ball is in YOUR court to keep the conflict going, or to stop it.

Can you do it?

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:02

Migu

Sorry mate I only get part of what you are saying. Not really sure what you mean.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:06

Rob

I suggest you look up projection and why people do it.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 15:16

You look like kind of a hypocrite for not being able to stop the conflict, after giving such Zen Buddhist lectures on it further up this thread, don’t you think?

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:26

Migu

Ok I think I understand what you are saying.

Ok, keep in mind this is how I see things and nothing more.

What I think is constantly overlooked when people start going on about the lack of progress or development of the so called MRM usually boils down to the persons own wishes and frustration and anyattempt at giving alternative explanations sends them further into a rage, it’s just like watching a child having a tizzy fit when told they can’t have more candy. That is not a put down of Rob or anyone else, it is a simple observation.

There is not and never will be any MRM. We are all individuals acting on what seems right for us. Alternatives options choices suggestions are what drives the individual to choose whatever path suits. call it MGTOW or whatever label you wish, its what is happening.

This three year cycle I see mentioned sadly overlooks the ever increasing number of men this touches. The info the message the meme whatever is obviously spreading if its three years six nine, who cares. the message is getting out. Arguing over who has posted the first flyer or how succesful it is/is not is like farting against thunder.

We all grow and also influenced by each other, simple as that. Sometimes its like taking a step forward and two back but, all roads lead to rome.

Clearly we are all at different stages of awareness sadly many guys take that comment as a challenge, or a put down, it is anything but. Simply fact. Not better than or wiser just at a different point.

Regardless of who I may like or dislike the vast majority agree with many things we all agree on, technique and tactics seem to be the sticking points and cause of much conflict. What works for you does not work for many others, thats just the way it is. I Try and keep that in mind and IMHO endless and pointless dick waving arguments does nothing to help ANYONE grow. This is also part of why I myself have spit out my own dummy in frustration, epsecially when I read regular comments about cultural marxism or socialism et al. It is obviously all just convenient labels to hide a much bigger plan. The PTB want and need this endless debate among us plebs. How else can they move forward their agenda?

I hope the above will help you understand a little better my position.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:30

Rob

Shut the fuck up will you. You are like a fucking woman. Grow up!

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Migu May 3, 2012 at 15:31

Hmmm,

You see someone who is about to wake up. You push them. Sometimes a gentle nudge is enough, other times it takes a solid whack with a cricket bat?

Rob’s been given a bullshit rap. That is what I am saying. Look around. I’ve had the same thing happen to me, and you have to you.

Like when you give absolute proof voter fraud is taking place in America, and some nitwit shows up, doesn’t follow the link, and calls you a tin foil hater, because that’s the cool thing to do?

Look, Keyster use to be dyed in the wool republican. Now you hear the song of liberty in his writings.

Did that make any more sense?

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 15:36

Way to end the conflict, Oddsock.

Can’t we all just get along?

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Migu May 3, 2012 at 15:36

Makes sense oddsock,

How can they further their agenda without constant conflict. So you have to end the conflict.

We are all on the same page here. You can step out, you can smother or what have you.

I think that is what Rob is trying to say. Those words that just came from your keyboard are on Rob’s blog as well as many others. It’s the undermining or rather the violation of a non-aggression axiom that is being fought against.

When someone starts shooting you, you shoot back no?

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:41

Migu

Yes. I thought that was what you was hinting at but you can never be sure.

Yes, I have mentioned before that the change is many posters can be seen. Actually I did say much the same as you posted above to Keyster, something along the lines of you can’t avoid the truth anymore than you can un ring a bell. The more he reads the more the seeds are planted. Same applies to us all.

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:47

Migu

Again yes, I understand and agree with you however, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I do things my way you and others do your own. Like I said, thats just the way it is.

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Migu May 3, 2012 at 15:52

Precisely, as long as the cat gets skinned who cares?

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Oddsock May 3, 2012 at 15:53

Migu

Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean about Rob being given a bull shit rap ?

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Boxer May 3, 2012 at 17:56

Dear Rob:

Can’t help but notice you’ve been posting incoherent, angry spew pretty much non-stop for several days. Have you seen your psychiatrist about the overdose of Valium you claimed a couple weeks ago?

Get some help, man. Once well, I hope you enjoy your life.

Regards, Boxer

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Avenger May 3, 2012 at 18:53

All of yu wankers have entirely too much time on your hands. Get a life!

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 19:00

Have you seen your psychiatrist about the overdose of Valium you claimed a couple weeks ago?

Get some help, man. Once well, I hope you enjoy your life. — Boxer

Nope. No psychiatrist yet. But in regard to my spells of losing consciousness, I’ve had a CT Scan done and all is normal. I’ve had an EEG done by a Neurologist, so I don’t have epilepsy. I’ve had a Holter Test done, so my heart is working fine. Today, I spent the afternoon being tested for Diabetes. Maybe that’s what’s going on. I’ll find out next week.

But thanks for your concern. I’ll be sure to keep you informed, since you are so concerned.

Regards to the eternal student at Simon Fraser University, Surrey Campus,

Rob

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 19:41

All Aboard!

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 20:26

Boxer,

I’m still curious,

Was Trotsky a Marxist?

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Avenger May 3, 2012 at 20:57

Valium would usually sedate a normal person BUT it should never be used if there is any underlying psychosis. And that’s regardless if it is something like schizophrenia or an organic cause because it only makes it worse and causes this hyperactivity and aggressiveness. Your doctors are just trying to rule things out butif they find nothing and you’re in your early 20′s then it’s likely schizophrenia, which is just a broad term which includes a variety of brain dysfunctions.
It’s hard to determine from reading comments on here because 1/2 these guys have some sort of paychiatric problem.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 21:06

I am 41.

I have been having spells where I lose consciousness – sometimes repeatedly – like 15 times in 10 minutes.

The first time we called the ambualance because we thought I was having a stroke.

I have had repeated attacks like this since… they prescribed the valium to keep me calm – especially after an attack comes on. I get scared I won’t wake up again. So, when I feel myself passing out, I take a valium, lie on the couch, sweat like crazy for an hour or two – cannot stand to have noise or people talking to me.

It is certainly not some mental illness. It is lack of ability to maintain consciousness, and then I panic because I can’t keep myself conscious for more than a minute or two.

I’ve never “overdosed” on it, but only take it according to prescription until we find out what is going on. In fact, while I am prescribed three a day, I have cut it back to one a day or less on my own.

Boxer is just another asshole hanging out on the MRM.

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Avenger May 3, 2012 at 22:31

It is certainly not some mental illness. It is lack of ability to maintain consciousness, and then I panic because I can’t keep myself conscious for more than a minute or two.

OK based on your age and the fact that it causes unconsciousness it’s likely not some psychiatric disorder.

What are some of the symptoms and at what age did it begin and how long have you had it.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 22:46

It started happening driving the car – I would pull over, because I thought I was going to pass out. A minute later, I felt fine, drove on with no problems.

A week later, again in the car – almost passed out – not dizzy – just felt I was passing out. Managed to pull the car over – same thing, felt fine drove on.

Then on Good Friday, same thing – driving the car – almost passed out. Thought to myself, “Holy cow, maybe I’m having a stroke.” Got home, parked the car, almost passed out again on the side walk… got into the house, booted up the computer to see if I was having symptoms of a stroke, and fell out of my chair onto the floor. By the time I got to the couch, it was coming wave after wave. Called 911 – scared I was having a stroke. But I wasn’t. Felt fine two hours later.

Two days later, same thing – back to ER.

Two days after that – same thing, back to ER.

The one doctor I talked to asked about my eating habits. I eat fairly healthy, (Good variety of veggies and meat) but I NEVER eat breakfast. So she suspected hypo-glycemia. I fast from evening until noon she said. She said the same thing happens to anorexic women. They fast for too long, and have pass out spells. I talked to my mom, and she said there are three people on my dad’s side of the family that have to monitor their blood sugar – not diabetic, yet.

Since she said that, I’ve made a point to eat breakfast every morning – on those days, it does not happen. Twice, I was late, and missed breakfast, and on those days I had episodes. The last time, took a valium and ate a candy bar, and pulled out of it within an hour.

Told this to my doctor, and thus, now in for diabetes tests.

I think this might be it.

Have candy bars in the house now.

I wouldn’t want to be diabetic… but, it’s better than not knowing what the hell is going on.

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Avenger May 3, 2012 at 22:51

A sign of diabetes is weight loss, have you have any?

I’ve made a point to eat breakfast every morning – on those days, it does not happen

Then eat breakfast.

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 23:23

I’ve had cancer a few years past.

Started out at 199lbs, and dropped all the way down to 158lbs,

Afterwards, I regained to 190lbs plus, said to myself, this is ridiculous, so have curbed my diet and brought myself back down to 178lbs currently – over the past 10 months. I am six foot tall. I should be in my proper BMI, I think.

But yes, breakfast is becoming mandatory – at least a bowl of cereal. I hate sweets, and never eat them. so my sugar intake is very low.

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Eric May 3, 2012 at 23:37

Rob/Avenger:
Sorry to intrude on your discussion. Dealing with man-hating feminist trolls on the other thread nearly has me going into lapses of consciousness too. I’m up for some constructive discourse.

Rob: I think Avenger might be partially right about hypoglycemia. It’s not necessarily caused by sugar intake alone, but also by starches which are converted to sugars in the body. The symptoms do sound like it. A mineral supplement, chromium picolinate, is something that you might want to try. It stabilizes blood sugar. Also, try drinking some milk when you feel dizzy. It’s rich in chromium and also is know to clarify the mental processes after a deprivation (it’s still the best cure for a hangover, for example)!

I do think the other part is psychological. The panic you’re experiencing is probably only an illusion—like a hallucination; it’s a mental reaction to the bodily sensations produced by the ‘spells’. If you keep yourself calm and think yourself through what’s going on, those may subside (in the interests of full disclosure, this has worked for me in the past when I’ve ingested a ‘substance’ that is—ahem—legally prohibited in some jurisdictions).

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Eric May 3, 2012 at 23:38

Rob:
P.S. I think too I’d reconsider taking the valium. It can have a lot of bad side effects.

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Eric May 3, 2012 at 23:45

Rob,
‘Was Trotsky a Marxist?’
It’s hard to say. Like Mark Twain used to say, ‘there are 10,000 Socialists in France, and 10,000 Socialist parties.’ His philosophy was based on Marxism, but he likely modified it.

The best way to answer that question would be to visit any university campus and listen to the debates professors have during their lunch hours. They go on forever about whether Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, or Mao taught the purest form of Communism. To these guys Ralph Nader is a right-wing extremist!

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Rob May 3, 2012 at 23:53

I do think the other part is psychological. The panic you’re experiencing is probably only an illusion—like a hallucination; it’s a mental reaction to the bodily sensations produced by the ‘spells’. If you keep yourself calm and think yourself through what’s going on,

That’s what I do now. I lie down, and concentrate on clearing my mind. Oceans, wheatfields, and other new age stuff. And it helps.

I don’t want to get addicted to the valium, that’s why I have been “undertaking” them, even though I am supposed to take them three times a day. Today, I haven’t had one. For the past few days, I’ve only had one.

Lol! There are better drugs out there than valium, if you must become an addict.

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