A Different World

by W.F. Price on April 27, 2012

As I suggested in my last post, Europe is something of an eye-opener for an American man. I imagine it’s something like the US was back in the 1970s when there was a surplus of young, attractive boomer women. At least, that’s the case in Riga, where I’m currently staying.

Because I’m not in the dating market and my perceptions aren’t skewed by going to nightclubs or the like, I can look around at the situation rather objectively, and the ratio of young attractive women on the street compared to the US is absolutely mind-blowing. For every one attractive woman in a typical US city, there are at least three here. Actually, the ratio is probably more like one to four. Is it because the women are naturally, genetically more attractive? I don’t think so. After giving the situation some thought, I’ve come up with a few reasons for this huge disparity:

1. Weight

American women are significantly heavier than (continental) European women. British women, sadly, are about the same as Americans. However, minority women in Britain are thinner than minority women in the US, which skews US stats further toward the obese side of the scale. As an example from my personal life, there was a very pretty young woman who worked as a waitress in my neighborhood a few years ago. She was only 19 or so when I first saw her, and still had that girlish physique. However, within a couple years she put on at least 20 pounds, and while still “cute”, she lost her figure by getting thick around the middle, and simply wasn’t hot any longer. Although this is very common for American women, it doesn’t seem to happen to women here. In general, they stay trim until middle age at least. American women who are not heavy by 25 or so are in the minority, with the average young American woman (aged 20-29) solidly in the “overweight” category today, at 5’4″ and a whopping 156 lbs. This probably accounts for most – or at least half – of the looks disparity between European and American women.

2. Dress/Hygiene

Let’s face it: Americans are downright slovenly compared to Europeans. We shop in sweatpants, wear cheap clothes and care little about our appearance. In Europe, people wouldn’t be caught dead in public looking like the kinds of slobs we regularly see out and around in the US (I am personally guilty of this offense myself from time to time — it’s easy to not care when nobody else does). Additionally, the monstrous tattoos that have become so tragically common on young American women are almost entirely absent in Europe, although one does see smaller ones from time to time.

3. Demographics

The man shortage really only applies to formerly Communist countries, such as the Baltic states, Ukraine, Russia, etc. I suspect it does have some influence in that it increases pressure on women to look good. However, given that Dutch women are quite attractive and there are plenty of Dutch men to go around, it is probably the least important factor.

4. Attitude

This is one of those subtle, nearly subliminal effects, but it’s quite noticeable when the nasty, pushy and competitive attitude is suddenly gone. American women are aggressive and loud, much as American men are. Although it may not be an attractive characteristic in men, it’s downright ugly when women behave that way. American women are also grumpy, stressed out and in foul moods much of the time. This isn’t entirely their fault, as the US is a high-pressure society, but it certainly doesn’t make them any prettier.

These key differences combine to create a sad situation for the contemporary single American male. The ratio is so profoundly different in Europe that I suspect the rules of “Game” are fundamentally different, too. For example, I doubt negging would work here. Women would just think you’re a jerk. Being nice and gracious to women in Europe actually works, and is appreciated. A woman who treats nice men with scorn here can’t get away with it, because there will be an equally attractive woman right around the corner who will happily accept a kind gesture.

Because there are so many attractive women, they can’t afford to be anywhere near as dismissive and nasty as attractive American women. For the average young beta male, this is a real boon. Women here really do not seem to like douchebag type guys. Probably because that type will just burn through women like somebody else’s money, and the local betas aren’t forced to support thug lovers, nor are they forced to settle for them, so being a thug-lover slut is a patently stupid choice for women.

From Europe, it becomes apparent that one of the largest single problems for American men is the lack of eligible women; it is the mirror image of the problem that afflicts women in Eastern Europe. In retrospect, I should have noticed it from China as well, but I was so young at the time that I didn’t give the issue much thought. Ironically, we often hear of a woman shortage in China, but if you do the numbers the ratio of eligible (i.e. sufficiently attractive) women in China is probably significantly higher than in the US. Frankly, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to think of male to female ratios again without wondering what the “eligible” female ratio is. It is probably the most important factor affecting young men’s happiness, and sadly we’ve raised a couple generations of extraordinarily unattractive women in the US.

{ 71 comments… read them below or add one }

ahamkara April 27, 2012 at 06:15

When my kids turn 18 I will be spending some time outside the US and encouraging my kids to do the same so that they can see that the whole world doesn’t operate in the bizarre way that we do here. Until then, we’re bound to US soil thanks to the vulgarities of family law. But it is nice to know that there is something worthwhile out there to see. Thanks for the inspiration.

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Glenn April 27, 2012 at 06:20

With this article you have touched upon the “third rail” of the Men’s Rights Movement. What I have dubbed the “Nuclear Option”.

In the past few years, I have seen a subculture develop within the online MRM community. This subculture is deeply invested in hatred, bitterness, scorn, and is ultimately self-destructive.

While this may seem somewhat of a paradigm to most, I see it as an alternative form of “astro-turfing”. That is, a fake 5th Column within our ranks that is openly engaging in sabotage.

I strongly suspect many of the more strident internet MRM types are simply feminist lesbians or crypto homosexuals. Both these groups are perfectly comfortable with men and women hating each other, thus leaving more room for their kind to ply their trade, as it were.

The terror of American homosexuals and lesbians is a foreign woman walking around in America (this I know first hand, as my wife is quite attractive, and foreign). Second most dreadful to them is the concept of American men unplugging from the matrix and traveling overseas.

I think the calling card of the MRM saboteur is the “Pussy Chaser!” accusation. It is used liberally, and by a wide swath of very vocal douchebags. Since these trolls are negative in nature, they can offer no positive alternative, only mindless derision.

I do not advocate American men going abroad and marrying the first bippy willing to hop into bed. I am, however, a strong advocate of meaningful male tourism. If for no other reason than when an American man sees what *real* women are like, it is difficult to stay so filled with vitriolic anger for all women.

Like the old saying goes, bitterness is a cup you pour for your enemies, but wind up drinking yourself. And it would appear there are those that have a vested interest in keeping American men as bitter and defeatist as possible.

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doclove April 27, 2012 at 06:36

The most disheartening thing about American women(and I include Anglophone Canadian women in this too.) is their attitude. The other three are disheartening but not as much as the attitude. Most American men aren’t anything wonderful to look at either, but we have better attitudes than American women on average even though our men’s attitudes are often poor too. You will never see so many women who date and have voluntary sex with thugs and douchebags and assholes as you do in the USA in sheer percentage of the population. You are right that the American women are socially mean, have an entitlement complex, manipulative, cruel, gold-digging, have shameless idiotic self destructive behavior and vicious as well as like to shame men more and not let men be men to higher degrees on average than in other countries.

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Thomas Tell-Truth April 27, 2012 at 06:50

The ‘nuclear option’ isn’t a fifth column. There are three ways to deal with a screwed up system. The first way is to try and exploit it. This is, in essence what the gamers seek to do. The second is to reform it. This is the mainstream MRA position (if anything in MRA can be truly called mainstream) The third is to burn it to the ground.

If you see no merit in the system then attempts at reform delay real change. If the system is irredeemable, then reformers merely serve to try and legitimize what is innately corrupt and illegitimate. Thus to bring true change, the system itself must be levelled to the ground. Its rather like trying to fix a house that is overly infested with termites. Beyond a certain point, its simply better to burn down the house.

That is why there is a nihilistic strain in modern MRA.

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Lara April 27, 2012 at 07:10

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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djc April 27, 2012 at 07:17

I married a Guatemalan woman. We went on vacation to my home town about twenty years ago. The first thing my old friend’s wives did, when they got her alone, was to try to fill her mind with hatred for men. They actually berated her for doing nice things for me. She told me about this after we got back home. It took twenty seven years, but she finally became one of them, and we divorced. This is not just an attitude. It is a mental illness that the vast majority of American women are afflicted with. And the main reason I have decided to remain alone and avoid ALL of them. They are not worth the misery.

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Jay April 27, 2012 at 07:17

Euro-women (and U.K. women for my money) crush their American counterparts in almost every category. . .

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Buckwheater April 27, 2012 at 07:25

“These are all things American women can change with a little effort. Why is there a man shortage in Eastern Europe?”

Frankly, they can change it only with considerable effort, but it’s unlikely that they will give up their level of comfort. Some EE women practice what they call “relief days” when they don’t eat at all or just drink juice or tea. Very few families have two cars. Also, EE food does not contain corn syrup. There are no food joints on every corner.

There is no male shortage until 35, but the males tend to be reckless and many are still poor. This skews the ratio to women’s disadvantage. But that is changing. In 5-10 years the 1980s youth bulge will be over and there will be a sharp drop in young ppl.

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TyrionL April 27, 2012 at 07:25

@Lara
The tranistion from communist economies has been very tough on eastern-euro men who have had difficulties in adapting to ‘service based’ and knowledge economies. Combined that with a propensity for alcoholism, and a large trench of males have simply dropped out of society, i.e.: unemployed, alcoholic, health issues, etc. The ones who have adapted (speak English, have technical/business uni degrees) have emigrated elsewhere to seek better opportunities.

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J April 27, 2012 at 07:35

@ Glenn

Well said, my wife is a tall gorgeous women who reads, writes, and speaks four languages, is an IT engineer, and could make me a house husband if I let her;) Other women here look at me with a mix of pleasure(want/desire because I left them) and disdain(because I did not marry one of my own kind!

About your comment on bitterness, so ture! It is like King Solomon said, be kind to your enemies, for in so doing it will be as heaping burning coals on their heads!

Why should we wallow in bitterness and unforgiveness. They are harsh taskmasters, much like our exes! Let them wallow in their own mire, maybe someday they will come to their senses, if not can anyone say “poetic Justice?”

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 8
Kyo April 27, 2012 at 07:49

Bill, everything you’ve said about women in Europe is also true in Japan. Come out here sometime — you won’t regret it!

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AntZ April 27, 2012 at 07:53

“From Europe, it becomes apparent that one of the largest single problems for American men is the lack of eligible women; it is the mirror image of the problem that afflicts women in Eastern Europe.”

Sorry, can’t agree. This is the only ADVANTAGE that American men have. This is what will happen when all American women turn into hairy hogs:

1) No American man will be in prison on false accusations of SA and DV.
2) No American fathers will be legally transformed into living ATM machines with no right to participate in their children’s lives.
3) American men will no longer feel compelled to provide for women, who will have to pay the full cost of their own health care, entitlements, social security, retirement, and so forth.
4) American men will no longer feel compelled to protect women, who will spill their own blood to protect their security (in war and peace).

I can’t wait. Let the day of the hairy hog abomination begin.

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Tom Smith April 27, 2012 at 08:16

The longer a woman is the U.S., the more entitled she feels. And she cannot put a smile on her face, which is a real turnoff to a husband or boyfriend.

I can say this with confidence having married a foreign woman and seen her spend 10 years in the U.S. Prior to coming here, she went to a good school (overseas), and she felt that her career was set. This was obviously not the case, but she thought so. Now I have to live with her bitchy, self-entitled attitude.

I do wonder if I had stayed in her country (where there is competition for available professional men) if things would have been the same. I have to believe she would have had to be pleasant- if for nothing else, because of the competition.

The problem in the U.S. is that the non-technology driven service economy is shrinking. And the education system (as it sits right now) does not favor men. Added to that, you have the bitches in HR departments looking after their own, so it’s nearly impossible for a hard-working qualified (non-technology professional) male to make it through the hiring process.

Overseas work- as well as a mistress- is looking like a possibilty. What marriage (and dating) in the U.S. have become is a convenient way for men to get f-ed.

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Reality April 27, 2012 at 08:18

mi·sog·y·ny
   [mi-soj-uh-nee]
noun
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

I don’t see anything in the definition about the dislike of any specific type of women. So we have to assume that it means ALL women anywhere.

So what is the word for the dislike and even hatred of American women? Oh yea, that would be called ‘NORMAL.’ Because the hatred of American is common around the world. Because well, they’re dispicable.

But American women are not intelligent enough to understand any of this even though it is very, very, very simple to understand. You forgot to mention how drooling retarded American women are as well.

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Reality April 27, 2012 at 08:19

mi·sog·y·ny
   [mi-soj-uh-nee]
noun
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

I don’t see anything in the definition about the dislike of any specific type of women. So we have to assume that it means ALL women anywhere.

So what is the word for the dislike and even hatred of American women? Oh yea, that would be called ‘NORMAL.’ Because the hatred of American is common around the world. Because well, they’re dispicable.

But American women are not intelligent enough to understand any of this even though it is very, very, very simple to understand. You forgot to mention how drooling retarded American women are as well.

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Jerry1476 April 27, 2012 at 08:24

I can only say I love the discourse and hope for change I am 55 and have a wonderful 6 year old daughter who brightens my life. I never will marry her mother who is the typical American witch. I am always warning young men to never sign any contract with a woman. Especially a wedding contract. However what this country needs is more children not less. We do not need princesses or princes, no queens or kings. So how do we solve this problem? All out non violent ,non cooperation would be effective, a marriage strike, certainly a chivalry strike. Men have to stop acting like saps.
I always say when the same number of women come home in body bags from war and work as then we are a step closer to equality. Remember the line Jack Nicolsen said in the movie “As good as it gets” . He was asked by a beautiful blonde, “How do you write women so well?” His reply was ” I take a man and then I take away all reason and accountability”. Hasta Lavista

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keyster April 27, 2012 at 08:24

Is it any wonder American women are the way they are? Have you ever watched Jersey Shore or The Kardashians or any of the other idiotic reality shows? These are all just extensions of feminist indocrination through the mass media to bend our culture toward soft-matriarchy.

This is the first generation of Women (and men) that have been fed Female empowerment and entitlement propaganda throughout their entire lives – – from Who’s the Boss to Murphy Brown to Kate Gosslin to where it all passes as Reality TV. Bitchy, entitled princesses are the new female role models.

And American men CUNTINUE to lower their standards for what’s becoming nothing but bulging/muffin-top, recalcitrant, biological support systems for vaginas. IOW American women STILL wield immense sexual power over American men – – because our men are STILL made to feel guilty and ashamed for “oppressing” women.

The Feminist Mass Media Propaganda Campaign over the last 30 years has worked, and worked very well. Own the Mass Media and you own the culture. Own the culture and you own the government – – VAWA, ObamaCare, Title IX, SlutWalks, Rape Culture Hysteria and the “War on Women” narrative.

THIS is what Gender Egalitarian Utopia looks like.
THIS is what women do with Power.

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Donkey April 27, 2012 at 08:36

In 1992 Quayle was ridiculed by the media when he criticized Murphy Brown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApHt7dzMovM

Now it is 2012, twenty years later, a blink of the eye in macro-cultural terms. I can’t even imagine a politician saying this.

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Tom Smith April 27, 2012 at 08:37

Not only are the commenters right that in the U.S. we put women on pedestals but also we have mangina legislators who saw fit to extend VAWA. Bill, you really need to put out more on the “goodies” that the feminist lobby put in the new version. It’s shameful how women in the U.S. have completely highjacked the political process for their own gain. Let’s hope that some of your work will inspire men to become more politically active and to say “no” to legislation such as this.

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Hf April 27, 2012 at 08:58

I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of this. I witnessed, and came to similar conclusions, with much of what you write about here. For example, in the off chance that I would visit even a McDonalds, it was mind-boggling at how well dressed everyone was. It always seemed to me, being used to dress/hygiene here in the US, that European folks were always on there way to some sort of formal occasion.

@Lara
American women canNOT change any of these with “little” effort like you suggest. EVERYTHING is a chore for most American women.

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Hf April 27, 2012 at 09:04

Here in the US, it is (or was?) commonly believed that the French dont bathe much, or that the women dont shave their legs or armpits. Though I did occasionally see this in more rural France (once I even saw a couple washing there feet in a sink outside a gas station, the woman still very pleasantly attractive), the unshaven legs or B.O. was never seen in the more metro areas.

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keyster April 27, 2012 at 09:11

“And the education system (as it sits right now) does not favor men.”

The current graduation rate for students earning Bachelor degrees within the California State University system is 2/3′s female and 1/3 male – – and NO ONE is alarmed by this!

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Boys-Fail-Educational-Leaving/dp/0814415342

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Art Vandelay April 27, 2012 at 09:59

Well somehow my experiences in Germany don’t seem to mirror yours. Just to repeat, Europe isn’t the same everywhere. Most women I see here are either fat or old or both. I did however notice that that wasn’t the case in Eastern Europe for example.

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Lara April 27, 2012 at 10:05

Buckwheat,
On an individual level it shouldn’t be too hard. I agree on a societal level it isn’t going to be easy. I support the movement to smaller farms, which I think could help the obesity problem. It’s hard to go up against capitalism, though.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 13
Lara April 27, 2012 at 10:07

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Reality April 27, 2012 at 10:32

When you have an entire generation of women now that are taught they are simply entitled to everything, don’t have to work or strive for everything, are just handed everything and given any position through affirmitive action, it’s no wonder they don’t even try to maintain themselves much less try to improve themselves.

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Raj April 27, 2012 at 10:41

djc April 27, 2012 at 07:17
I married a Guatemalan woman. We went on vacation to my home town about twenty years ago. The first thing my old friend’s wives did, when they got her alone, was to try to fill her mind with hatred for men. They actually berated her for doing nice things for me. She told me about this after we got back home. It took twenty seven years, but she finally became one of them, and we divorced. This is not just an attitude. It is a mental illness that the vast majority of American women are afflicted with. And the main reason I have decided to remain alone and avoid ALL of them. They are not worth the misery.

The only reason women in other cultures behave better is because that’s in their own best interest, not because they are somehow more ethical or moral.

Underneath the act, they are all the same. Don’t believe me? Bring one here and find out.

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suspectum April 27, 2012 at 11:00

The American woman can be described as an entitled, narcissistic, spoilt brat… I found an interesting book that describes how, why and what it is going to lead to:
http://www.narcissismepidemic.com/

Pretty frightening

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TFH April 27, 2012 at 11:19

Raj,

The only reason women in other cultures behave better is because that’s in their own best interest, not because they are somehow more ethical or moral.

Bingo.

When people wonder why women outside the West are better, it is for the same reason that American women of 1950 were like that.

They didn’t have the state organized to prop them up.

The divorce rate of a country depends on one thing, and one thing only :

Will the woman’s living standard go down if she divorces?

If ‘yes’, that country has a low divorce rate.
If ‘no’ due to crooked laws, that country has a high divorce rate.

Every other rationalization of ‘I was not happy’ or ‘We grew apart’ is just cover for the cold financial decision.

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Anonymous age 70 April 27, 2012 at 11:21

Glenn April 27, 2012 at 06:20

>> …In the past few years, I have seen a subculture develop within the online MRM community. This subculture is deeply invested in hatred, bitterness, scorn, and is ultimately self-destructive.

This “developed within” the online MRM movement? It had nothing to do with a vicious 45 year attack on everything male? Oh, wait a minute. You are living on another planet, right? Sorry, I missed that.

I call this, “I got mine!” You have at least temporarily an attractive, foreign wife, so all is well in your little world, and you have no empathy for men who have had their lives destroyed by the evil of feminism and the American Woman. Right?

In fact, hostility is a much more healthy response to misandry than the passive acceptance which permitted misandry to take over our society.

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TFH April 27, 2012 at 11:22

Is it any wonder American women are the way they are? Have you ever watched Jersey Shore or The Kardashians or any of the other idiotic reality shows?

That is why ‘Shahs of Sunset’ is the latest evil attempt to normalize feminism and homosexuality in a conservative culture.

That the Iranian community lives in the Hollywood area will be their ruin, as they are now in the crosshairs of forces that seek to rip apart their traditional values.

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beta_plus April 27, 2012 at 12:10

It’s important to distinguish what parts of Europe are being discussed here. EE and FSU areas definitely fit this model, as well as parts of Latin Europe such as (parts of) France and Italy. Scandinavia, the UK, and Ireland, OTOH, are quickly going down the US path with increasing obesity and bad attitudes (though the Scandinavian type is different from the American kind due to a more generous welfare state made possible by a mostly homogeneous society – see Roosh).

I am curious about the Netherlands now. I had simply lumped it in with Scandinavia due to my experience with the Dutch and their increasing obesity rates. Maybe it’s different.

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greyghost April 27, 2012 at 14:27

“The only reason women in other cultures behave better is because that’s in their own best interest, not because they are somehow more ethical or moral” This from Raj is the key to The MRM.
A leader and srategic thinker of the MRM needs to always be aware of this. Certain truthes are truthes there are no real exceptions. A woman will behave in a pleasent manor only when it is in WHAT SHE THINKS OR FEELS is her best best interest period. That is how game works and how team woman works. That is how as keyster pointed out women have men licked out of college so they can get an education and then the same women when they finish with the cock carousel bitch about no men being available. The fix is more misandry is tjheir eye and vote. Also with out educated male investment and inovation the economy will never grow. The current crop of educated women produce nothing and just vote for an easier or more access to the shrinking pie. With women running things it will take millions of deaths thru famine and real brutal oppression to get american or any western women to the point of behavior seen in eastern europe because that is what they lived with there. But you can bet your ass the women are just as concerned about themselves as any western skank they just don’t see the government in the same light as western women do as a good husband and enforcer of feminist directed misandry. Most likely because the government can’t afford it.

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Eric April 27, 2012 at 14:29

Price, Glenn, Thomas:
You are absolutely correct about this. I advocate avoiding American women and pursuing foreign ones, because I don’t think American women are capable of changing. They have had an entitlement attitude and a hatred of men burned into their psychologies since childhood. There are real women out there beyond our borders and within some immigrant enclaves here.

There is a nihilist streak within the MRM, the Gamecocks, for example; who basically accept all the tenets of feminism and try to use feminist tactics against feminised women. No general in his right mind would try to engage an ‘enemy’ on the enemy’s terms, but most Roissyites too simplistic or outright fanatical to believe otherwise. (Notice how they never talk about how many ‘Gamers’ pick up STDs, are hit with false accusations, &c. Their ‘success stories’ also seem a bit on the sparse side LOL)

In a culture like ours where men and women see each other as enemies and relationships as competative power-plays, it would make some sense to speak of relationships in terms of strategies, tactics, &c. But that is because our culture is completely dysfunctional as the divorce, abortion, and out-of-wedlock birth rates demonstrate. A woman who’d need ‘gaming’ isn’t worth having; and a woman who’s worth having doesn’t need it.

Men have very little social power, but they can exercise their power by passive resistance. That means saying ‘no’ to Anglo-American women.

The other side of the coin are what Glenn rightly describes as ‘closeted feminists and crypto-homosexuals’. This is a social element which trully can be described as nihilistic. They are perfectly happy with the collapse of gender relations—in fact, they hate our culture so thoroughly that the promise of ANY kind of social collapse appeals to them. They feed off social decay, like a bunch of carrion-crows, and their actual utility to the MRM (or anybody else) is neglible.

There are constructive alternatives for men available; and I believe in the future will become more prominent. One is more involvement with foreign women; another is MGTOW. I think that America is in a transitional period, socially and economically, where the better grade of American men are turning from feminism and forming the nucleus of what will be a new middle class.

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greyghost April 27, 2012 at 14:32

Anonymous age 70
I’m pissed the hell off. And I do care what happens to men in general. I guess that is just the beta in me.

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Flybynight April 27, 2012 at 16:34

Thanks for the update Roosh…

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Attila April 27, 2012 at 17:23

American women- on average- are simply disgusting. The only ones with some
charm seem to be the 1st and maybe 2nd generation ethnics (variable).

Time for me is better spent staying home and fixing a good dinner- get some edifying music going – and nurse a beer for a while while unwinding- followed by a good cup of coffee- some reading—more music—and light web-surfing. Then some meditation or spiritual reading before turning in. Getting in touch with “it”…..

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Robert K April 27, 2012 at 19:12

“we’ve raised a couple generations of extraordinarily unattractive women in the US.”

Same down under, unfortunately.

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shiva1008 April 27, 2012 at 23:28

You said in your first article from there that they have their own problems in relations between men and women. I would be interested to hear more about this. Or did I miss it?

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W.F. Price April 28, 2012 at 00:55

You said in your first article from there that they have their own problems in relations between men and women. I would be interested to hear more about this. Or did I miss it?

-shiva1008

I’ll write some more on that after thinking about it a bit and talking to the locals a bit more. I want to be sure I’ve got it right.

MarcusAurelius April 28, 2012 at 02:46

What Keyster said in his above post is most certainly still true: american women continue to wield immense sexual power over men. But I think a large reason for this is not only the cultural conditioning that somehow tries to repackage obesity as sexy (bbw) and so on, but because american men are simply ignorant. Mr. Price, your articles on this subject would serve as an apologetic for meeting foreign women, and I think on these well read MRA sites we need to talk about this more. Uncle Elmer has done a good job of that on the Spearhead. I think the harsh reality is simply that most men don’t ever realize they have far better options outside the anglosphere. They view the american woman as the only option they have, when this is hardly the case. Just as they say we live in a ‘global economy’, we can also have a ‘global dating and sexual market place’, a marketplace that is tipped in OUR favor. We simply have to educate more and more men about this.

A man doesn’t have to ‘ghost’ or ‘mgtow’; while these are not bad choices, too often the men in our community seem to present it as though it is the only option. For a man that longs to get married and have children, like so many of us do whether we care to admit it or not, this is just as viable an option as ghosting if we just cast our gaze abroad. My best friend has a wonderful wife from Brazil. In just two weeks I will be marrying an asian girl from the Philippines. We couldn’t be happier!

All a man has to do is make the effort to seek this out. Join some of the reputable international dating websites. As I’ve said before, unlike domestic sites, you will have countless women sending YOU messages. Hop on a plane and fly to some of these places. Trust me, you will be glad you did. In Asia, the places where I went the women were friendlier, more approachable. They say hello to you. Its a stark contrast; and just like what you are experiencing, they are thinner and more attractive to boot.

When I am out here, I see all these average to even good looking guys, probably most of them betas….with whales for women. I think to myself…if these guys only knew…if they only knew with just a little cash and some effort they could have someone far more attractive and with a much better personality and attitude than their ‘bbw’. Men are settling for what they THINK is their only option. Screw that! I’d rather be alone the rest of my life than being with one of these monstrosities! I don’t even know how these poor dudes can get it up for a woman that is so fat and doesn’t take care of herself at all. Seriously: how do you have sex with that?

When I came back from Asia, I vowed to never date an american woman again. They literally no longer showed up on my radar. I could be in a crowd of them and it was suddenly as if I were looking at background furniture rather than someone that was potentially ‘hot’ or sexy. Their hold over me was forever broken by that one trip alone.

Gentlemen, liberate yourselves and take a trip abroad.

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Fernandez April 28, 2012 at 02:52

I currently live in a city like very few. After seeing almost all of the American continent cities, western Europe and Australia my opinion is that nothing touches Montreal in that area. Here women start working their asses in the gym during winter to look their best in the summer. Plus, you get an amazing variety since women come here from so many places in the world. After having met locals and foreigners, I can tell that in terms of attitude and looks (if your taste is similar to mine) probably the best blend comes from Eastern Europe and then from Latinamerica. In terms of attitude, the asian woman is hard to beat. Their humility and simplicity of seeing life is something I have rarelly seen elsewhere. I’m talking about women raised in their home countries; a woman raised here is another story. I have met japanese, chinese, thai and vietnamise; all of them have cooked for me and pampered me when I was expecting nothing.

As for Europeans, It might be a personal experience but I have found that it depends on the European country. My experience with say, French women, is that they are even freakier than anything I have seen in the US or Canada. It seemed to me that feminism is more engrained there. They have the worst attitude. Very sexually agressive, unrestrained no-morals hypergamic instincts coupled with that mentality product of believing they are irresistible like no one else. In the other hand, their best qualities are that they are feminine, they have charm, elegance and are good on bed. But, I would not marry one; they are super high maintenance. Spanish, english and german are less self-entitled but still very feminist. The women I met from Slav countries Norway and Sweeden are something special. Not feminine at all; they talk like a man, walk like a man, sit on a chair like a man. So, I had to ask “Are you girls lesbians?” they went into a burst of laughter “Hell no! why do you think so?”

I have met many immigrants here that have tried to make a family with the local women. The rate of success is not good; Only one guy broke the 5 years marriage mark and that because he is an uber-mangina. All of the others are divorced, kicked out from their own house, paying child support and depressed. Local men do better for obvious reasons but still their divorce rate is very high too. A cop told me once that 9 out of 10 suicides in Montreal are males; it might be true.

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Pirran April 28, 2012 at 04:07

As others have noted, part of this is probably due to the lack of comparison that most American men will have. Americans, by and large, simply don’t go abroad; many never leave their home state. I say only in part, because Brit’s go abroad in large numbers and yet still have to deal with drunken, pushy, puking, micro-minnied elephant seals on their return. Perhaps this is because Brit’s tend to visit little alcohol friendly enclaves abroad rather than venturing further afield and so notice little difference.

Of course, all of this is the inevitable consequence of the state subsuming the role of the male provider unto itself, hence allowing the supremely entitled mindset of most Anglo-sphere women. Sadly this can’t end until the state effectively becomes bankrupt hence bringing those entitlements and societal norms crashing down around it. This will still take a few years / decades to become obvious to all.

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Glenn April 28, 2012 at 11:37

shiva1008 April 27, 2012 at 23:28

“You said in your first article from there that they have their own problems in relations between men and women. I would be interested to hear more about this. Or did I miss it?”

Ok shiva, allow me to elaborate. In the most simple of terms, examine all the traits of American females. Selfishness, immaturity, deceitfulness, instability, faithlessness, narcissism, pettiness, and treachery, to name only a few.

Now, take all those traits, and superimpose them on Russian men. Viola! You now have perfect and complete understanding of why Eastern European women have a great deal of interest in American guys. Oh, and be sure to add a couple hundred gallons of Vodka, and a few knocked out teeth for good measure.

I assure you, my friend, it is no more complicated than that. Granted, there are exceptions, just as with American women, but here is the real question. Is it worth taking the risk? Nah. Thus we have a surplus of Going Their Own Way girls in EE and guys in the West.

I hope this helps clarify the issue.

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Lavazza April 28, 2012 at 12:41

Bulgaria (8) has the lowest rate of obese and/or overweight young women (18-24) and Italy (21) wins in the 25-44 category.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Overweight_%2B_obesity_-_women,_by_age.png&filetimestamp=20111123162830

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Eric April 28, 2012 at 12:48

Marcus Aurelius:
Congrats on landing the Filipina. You’re absolutely right, the quality of women in the US is so bad, men either turn off to women altogether or think (as the feminists want them to) that the BBW’s and the aging, bitter slags, or the thug-chasing, ‘issue’-laden mental cases are their only option. The situation is no better anywhere else in the Anglosphere either.

The only happily married couples I personally know of are men who’ve married foreign-born wives. American women aren’t worth the effort.

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Attila April 28, 2012 at 17:08

Thanks to Fernández for the in-depth report – live from the trenches!

I have been to Montréal a few times – but not long enough to get to know the local scene. At least they have good restaurants/bakeries/coffeehouses and bookstores. Interesting and cozy clubs with a lot of atmosphere – verrrry laid back.

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Zorro April 28, 2012 at 17:22

April, 1999. I’m in Chesky-Krumlov in the Czech Republic, and I damned nearly drop my $400 camera when I bumped into a woman who was a CLONE of Catherine Zeta-Jones. I knew it wasn’t the real thing cause yer man Michael Douglas wasn’t stapled to her dress.

Devastating, some of the women over there.

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Pirran April 29, 2012 at 01:45

@Lavazza

Woo !! Woo !! We’re NUMBER ONE, We’re NUMBER ONE. U of K ! U of K ! U of K !

Fascinating graph, although I doubt it would come as a surprise to most. Particularly interesting to note that young Brit women (18-24) are (with the exception of tiny Malta) more than DOUBLE the lardiness of anyone else. Most EU countries are less than 10% and the UK is up to 40. Given that these stats were collected a few years back, it’s probably over 50% by now.

Soon they will absorb us all like a blubbery tide…..

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V10 April 29, 2012 at 03:36

Many months ago, a young woman from Europe interned with us. Pleasant, cheerful, and cute. 180 from the abrasive, bitchy sows that usually roam the office.

It’s a pathetically small sample size, but the more I think about her, the more it fits perfectly.

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Avenger April 29, 2012 at 04:52

Western fat girls are going to breed themselves right into the underclass. The more accomplished and affluent men will not want them and will choose only the top females to mate with in their countries and since this isn’t 1900 when it took long journies to get around the world by ship, men have a wide range of women to choose from. All the fat girls will be able to get are 3rd worlders looking for a green card, the incompetent bottom in their own country and black men who like fat white girls.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we breed ourselves into new races with the good looking intelligent at the top and the others at the bottom sort of like in Brave New World only without having to use science to do it and it just coming about by natural selection.
In fact, the NY Times wrote something about this in the 1970′s where professionals and the more intelligent were breeding with the like almost exclusively, something that was not as true in the past and this was before we had this obesity factor which will likely speed things up. Higher class men simply will not setttle for inferior fat females. If you can get a new Mercedes are you going to settle for a 10yo rusty clunker that requires a lot of maintainance?

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Lavazza April 29, 2012 at 13:47

Pirran: Your only consolation is that female fatness does a smaller jump to 25-44 (10) than the 20 jump in most EU countries.

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Remnant April 29, 2012 at 20:07

If you want to visit Europe in America, you have to watch movies from the 40s and 50s.

To pick one random example, take a look at the characters comprising the main love interests in “Anchors Aweigh” (1945) : Gene Kelly, Frank Sinatra, Kathryn Grayson and Pamela Britton.

The men are as much worth remarking on as the women: Kelly is in incredible shape but not in a “buff”, disproportionate way so characteristic of today’s American man. Sinatra looks shockingly thin, but you soon realize that was the norm then.

Grayson is stunning, but Britton is perhaps the more instructive example in the context of this post: Britton is not a stunner, but she is perfectly attractive largely because she is thin and presents herself well.

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Roosh April 30, 2012 at 09:08

Sex ratios shouldn’t be applied to the entire population. In Latvia, there is actually a male surplus under 30. The woman surplus doesn’t happen until after 30. That’s great if you want an older women, but if not then the competition can be quite intense for an attractive 22 year old.

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Brittney May 2, 2012 at 01:38

It may strike you as surprising (or you may simply not wish to acknowledge this) but American MEN are very fat and out of shape as well. Americans are laughed at around the world for being fat slobs.

You say you are not on the dating market, but if you are…what do you have to offer? You encourage American men (who are as fat and out-of-shape as their female counterparts) to go abroad; what do you think they would have to offer to attractive young cosmopolitan women? So many unattractive men have this anger at women because they think they all DESERVE an attractive, young, thin woman without thinking about what they have to offer themselves. Predictably, you only focus on women and their shortcomings. If American men really aren’t able to get attractive women they should probably head to the gym and improve themselves rather than devoting their time to moaning about it online. Fat or not, bitterness is not attractive to any woman.

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Eric May 2, 2012 at 04:39

Brittney:
Bitterness isn’t attractive to normal men, either. That’s why hate-filled feminist American women don’t appeal to normal men.

I don’t know who’s been advocating that fat American men go abroad for women. There is no shortage of fat women in America for the fat guys.

As for American men improving themselves to ‘get attractive American women’, I can’t say that I’ve seen that help very much. Most of the attractive women I see in America actively seek out males who are exactly the opposite of the types of men who improve themselves. Criminals, thugs, addicts, bums, perverts—that class of males doesn’t seem to have much difficulty with the ‘fair sex’ here.

‘Predictably, you only focus on women and their shortcomings’

Likely because their major shortcoming is their deeply-ingrained hatred for men. Foreign women, at least, don’t hate us for being male; and even value men as partners. Can American women boast as much?

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Brittney May 2, 2012 at 04:53

Have you checked out this site lately? You call feminists “hate-filled” but this site is devoted almost entirely to complaining about women. I can’t imagine why someone would put so much time and effort into this.

More men in this country are obese than women. When I said that these guys should “improve” themselves, I meant that they should get into shape if they desire slim women, because few slim women want an obese guy.

And I’m sorry, but I’m not going to indulge you: most attractive women don’t date criminals or thugs. If you are unable to get attractive women, you really should focus on yourself and what’s wrong with you rather than blaming an entire country of women for their standards. That’s so silly and I bet you would criticize “feminists” for criticizing men who don’t want them. If, in a country of 300 million people, you’re having trouble getting attractive women, the problem isn’t THEM, it’s you. Sure there are a lot of fat women, but who cares? Attractive, charismatic men can still attract attractive women here. What good does it do to point out that there are more attractive women in other countries? Unless you go to those countries and successfully date those women, you have no idea whether they would be attracted to you anymore than thin American women are.

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W.F. Price May 2, 2012 at 05:58

You say you are not on the dating market, but if you are…what do you have to offer? You encourage American men (who are as fat and out-of-shape as their female counterparts) to go abroad; what do you think they would have to offer to attractive young cosmopolitan women?

-Brittney

I haven’t really given it much thought, because it’s irrelevant to me. But I’d have the same attitude if I were single — trying to please women is usually an exercise in futility, and I can only be who I am. Whether or not we are sexually desired is less important to men than women, anyway.

But really, this is a men’s site, so why is it difficult for you to understand that what concerns us is what women have to offer us as men? For example, the question here where young attractive women are concerned would be, all else being equal, which ones are more likely to offer men what they want. Unfortunately, American women would lose here as well, primarily because there are so few attractive ones that they don’t feel they need to add any value beyond that.

As for what the men have to offer, that certainly isn’t my problem or concern.

Ted May 2, 2012 at 06:44

“…complaining about women. I can’t imagine why someone would put so much time and effort into this.”

Then you need to pay more attention.

“If you are unable to get attractive women…”

That should be *find*, not *get*.

First there are the physical attributes. But beyond that, unattractive behaviors. Finally, the dubious worth of her presence, when set against the very real risks that men run these days. Although the blame for that part is more on the system than the individual woman.

It’s not all personal and personality, Brittney. The prospect as a whole is deeply unattractive.

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Brittney May 2, 2012 at 06:51

What? Women don’t care more about being sexually desired than men do. If anything, men are much more interested in sex (which requires a willing partner). There’s a reason why men usually pursue women.

Your position confuses me because most (non-delusional) people consider what they have to offer the opposite sex. What is the point of noting that there are lots of attractive, thin women in a given location if they wouldn’t go for you anyway? As I noted, there are slightly more obese men than women in the US, and I’m sure a lot of your readers fall into that group so you’re not doing them much of a service by pointing out where hot women are if these guys have no chance at them.

Judging by the bitterness that you display towards women, I’m sure you’d be the first to criticize a group of women who did nothing but complain about the men available to them without examining whether they deserved any better.

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Brittney May 2, 2012 at 07:02

@ Ted,

What should I be paying attention to? I wouldn’t call myself Little Miss Sunshine, but I’m a relatively happy, content person, so I don’t understand the mindset of someone who devotes an entire website to complaining about a group of people, women or otherwise. (I view the crazy stormfront people and those of that ilk in the same light, for what it’s worth). It just seems draining to constantly focus on negativity and strife. If I were running a website about how awful men are, I think I’d walk around in a bitter, hateful mood all day (how could I avoid it when I spent all of my time thinking of new articles on men’s flaws to pen?)

Sorry, but America is the most diverse country in the world. There are lots of beautiful women here. To claim that you can’t “find” any, is being disingenuous at best. The reason I asked the men reading this to consider what they have to offer women is that I never hear tall, strapping, young, virile men with all of their hair complaining about the poor selection of women in the US. The types who are most critical of American women tend to be older guys, guys of questionable attractiveness who haunt these internet sites, and men who have never had much luck with women in general and think they’ll be able to attract a woman abroad because they’re American and have a decent income. These guys think they are owed an attractive woman and are angry at American women because the most attractive women don’t want them. Yes, a lot of American women (and men as I pointed out) are fat, but there are enough who aren’t such that attractive men have no trouble finding attractive women.

The guys who are so in favor of going abroad to look for women HATE being told this, but if you really can’t find an attractive, desirable woman in our country which contains millions of women of every color, ethnicity, religion, race, nationality, etc. you should examine yourself before deciding the 150 million are irredeemably flawed.

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W.F. Price May 2, 2012 at 07:22

What? Women don’t care more about being sexually desired than men do. If anything, men are much more interested in sex (which requires a willing partner). There’s a reason why men usually pursue women.

-Brittney

No, Brittney, you’ve got it wrong. Male and female sexuality are fundamentally different. Have you ever wondered why men are turned on by coy, demure women, but they generally find overt expressions of sexual desire unattractive in women? Have you noticed that women love romance novels where the men are overwhelmed by lust and passion for the woman, and that in real life when a man acts uninterested and avoids a woman it just hurts her feelings?

Men don’t pursue women because they want to be desired, they pursue women because they desire. Men are not passive; they are active (I assume you are familiar with simple grammar, and understand the distinction). Sure, exceptions exist, but that’s what they are: exceptions.

What is the point of noting that there are lots of attractive, thin women in a given location if they wouldn’t go for you anyway?

That’s easy. I like beauty whether or not I have sex with it (or want to). Would you rather live in a run down old house full of rats and spiders or a clean, beautiful place with thoroughbred horses in the pasture and magnificent stags emerging at dusk to graze?

Beauty isn’t all about sex.

Judging by the bitterness that you display towards women, I’m sure you’d be the first to criticize a group of women who did nothing but complain about the men available to them without examining whether they deserved any better.

Well, you see, we’re being proactive here. That’s the difference. I’m telling men that they have better options elsewhere so that they can do more than just complain. What they deserve is purely subjective — you are deciding they don’t deserve anything. That being the case, your opinion automatically becomes irrelevant, because you offer nothing. Men shouldn’t listen to words like “deserve,” “should,” “ought to,” etc. What’s important is only what you can do. If men can do better than what you think they deserve, then why on earth should they concern themselves with what they have to offer you? Why not just go elsewhere and not worry about your opinion?

Brittney May 2, 2012 at 07:33

Your point about men being turned off by expressions of sexual desire in women is wrong, but that’s besides the point I think.

Men want women to accept their sexual advances. Which is the same as wanting to be desired. They just don’t expect to be doted on the way women do. But I can tell you from experience that men have very sensitive egos and very much want to be considered attractive by women.

I really wish you would attempt to respond to my actual arguments rather than building strawmen. I NEVER said that “men” don’t deserve anything. I would love for you to show me where I said anything which even suggests this. I asked you (and the men who share your sentiments) who have trouble finding desirable American women to date) to ask you whether you have anything to offer a desirable woman. I would pose the same question to a woman who noted that she was having a hard time entering a relationship with an attractive man. Asking whether someone “deserves” a specific partner is sort of missing the point. Which was…my point. No one deserves anything in life. Men get attractive, young women because they have something that these women find desirable in a mate. If they don’t, they won’t get these women. I don’t have an opinion as to which guys deserve which women because that would be non-sensical. When did I say that any men should worry about what they have to offer me? I asked them what they have to offer the women they are attracted to. You are distorting what I am saying so that you can repeat the same “anti-feminist” talking points that form the backbone of your belief system.

Finally, why is my opinion irrelevant because you don’t like what I’m saying?

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Ted May 2, 2012 at 07:36

“What should I be paying attention to? ”

One example: the divorce statistics. Do you know what the chances are for a divorce? Do you know the likely cost?

For the man, that is.

Another example: what’s the gender difference in education? I wouldn’t want to deny you the pleasure of finding out for yourself, which you can do by reading this site.

There are plenty more examples. False accusations of rape, essentially evidence-free; grossly unequal child custody arrangements; unjust and unequal treatment by the legal system. For men that is; on little more than a woman’s say-so.

To enter into marriage, or increasingly these days any longterm relationship, is a risky business for a man. His parter must be personally trustworthy in a way she never had to be in the past, and it’s up to him to get it right. The penalty of getting it wrong is severe.

Well, maybe the gains are worth the risks. Maybe there are sufficiently attractive women out there; women who will play their part in the partnership; who could improve your life; or maybe just be pleasant. I suppose that’s a theoretical possibility.

This theoretical possibility is what is under discussion here.

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W.F. Price May 2, 2012 at 07:41

Men get attractive, young women because they have something that these women find desirable in a mate.

-Brittney

Sure. And one thing women find undesirable is insecure guys who worry about whether they have something to offer said women. So, one of the first steps in getting interest from an attractive woman is to stop worrying about what you have to offer her.

Finally, why is my opinion irrelevant because you don’t like what I’m saying?

No, silly. It’s because it doesn’t matter. :)

Brittney May 2, 2012 at 08:03

I apologize for contributing then. I did not mean to intrude upon this group of outcast men applauding one another for their brave “decision” to forego American women. You should post a sign stating that only those opinions which affirm the delusions of this group are welcome.

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W.F. Price May 2, 2012 at 08:07

You should post a sign stating that only those opinions which affirm the delusions of this group are welcome.

-Brittney

Oh, stop whining. If any of us tried to post on a feminist site we’d be banned after one post.

Eric May 2, 2012 at 13:56

Brittney:
Thank you for reminding us all why American women are useless for relationships. All I’ve heard out of you so far is your hatred of men, which is about what men hear out of American women generally.

‘More men are obese in this country than women.’
Not true. American women are the leading demographic worldwide in obesity. Also, the leaders in consuming perscription psychiatric drugs, voluntary abortions, substance abuse, and high in out-of-wedlock births. Really appealling to men, huh?

‘I never hear tall, strapping, virile men with all their hair complaining about the lack of women.’

I hear them all the time. A know a lot of guys like that who’ve been broken in divorce court and/or had false accusations levelled against them.

“Most attractive women don’t date crimals or thugs.”
Now I know you’re not being serious. I know quite a few thuggish men too. Lots of kids; multiple wives/girlfriends—it’s only the ‘boring nice guys’ ‘the boring loyal dudes’ ‘the marshamallows, all sweet and no substance’ ‘creepy older dudes’ (for guys over 30)—any of these phrases sound familiar?—who seem unwanted by you Americanas.

“Unless you go to these countries and date them…&C”
I have; and I date immigrant women here. The difference between you and them is night and day. I have no trouble dating foreign women. Foreign men have told me the same thing; that women in their own countries are far better looking and better behaved than you American women are. Face facts: American women are the bottom of the barrel in the relationship market.

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Eric May 2, 2012 at 14:00

Britney:
‘Women don’t care about being sexually attractive any more than men do.’

Phrases like this speak volumes. A perfect specimen of typical female attitudes. First it acknowledges what a lot of have long believed: the sexual frigidity of American women generally. Second, it presumes ‘all men are pigs’ who don’t care about our apperance or being appealing to the opposite sex.

This is what feminist education drives into women’s heads. This is why American women are unfit for any kind of rational relationship with real men.

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Cindy June 4, 2012 at 01:56

What a bunch of dumb fucking idiots. If a woman disagrees you call her mandating. Has it occurred to you that you are a bunch of mean spirited, bitter, angry, entitled assholes? Women don’t hate men, they hate douche turds like you. Most men are kind, loving, and awesome to be around. MRAs generally aren’t, and when women reject you, it’s not your fault, it’s misandry!! What a joke.

Seriously guys, we don’t want you here. GTFO to your Asian paradise.

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Cindy June 4, 2012 at 02:02

And you probably get banned from feminist sites because you can’t write two sentences without calling women cunts, slits, whores, etc. But they ban you cuz…misandry!!

When you shit on a full half of the population, normal sane people tend to want to stay far away from you.

And don’t you dare pull out the shaming card. You guys are wrong, you want women to depend on you without options so you can control and abuse her without guvmnt interference. You want to take away women’s vote !!

It’s never going to happen. Your delusions of an apocalyptic reckoning is nothing more than a masturbatory fantasy.

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