As Industrialization Devalued Male Labor, Automation will Devalue Female Labor

by W.F. Price on April 7, 2012

When we talk about how the value of a strong back is greatly diminished from days past, and female work is now as valuable if not more valuable than male on the middle to lower end of the labor market, we tend to overlook the fact that female work had already been greatly devalued in fairly recent history. For example, women used to be the only ones to deliver babies, sew and weave clothes, run household industry and make bread and ale. They also grew vegetables and gathered fruits and berries, milked cows and goats, etc. Female economic activity was probably considerably more important in the 15th century than it was in the 19th and 20th. Not only did the professionalization of medicine put a lot of midwives and herbalists out of work, but industrialization made wives’ sewing redundant, and mass production freed them from the tasks of baking and brewing, among other things.

It was industry that created the bored housewife; women had nothing important left to do, so we ended up with the Betty Friedans and Adrienne Riches of the world who could exploit the feeling of emptiness and lack of purpose that took hold of mid-20th century American women. However, now that heavy industry is stagnant and/or much more efficient, many men are left out, and the burgeoning service industry has tipped the balance toward women once again. This is why we have these triumphant “End of Men” proclamations from vicious feminists, and it’s also why women have lower unemployment than men. But because female labor has become more expensive and a larger threat to profit, companies will adjust, as always, and innovation will tip the scales again.

This is starting on the low end, with automation of light industry and food service, and it has picked up speed in only the last few years. Fast food restaurants, a major low-wage employer of women, are beginning to install robotic cashiers and have automated cooking to the point that very little labor is necessary to produce an order. Some restaurants are even eliminating wait staff in favor of robotic service, and customers don’t seem to mind. Even in my local Safeway I purchase my groceries from a robot (with a very sexy voice).

Within a decade or so, operating a fast food franchise may be more like playing a video game than managing real humans. Perhaps only two people would be necessary to run a typical McDonald’s or Taco Bell. After fast food and retail are increasingly automated, next will be office work. This has already begun with automated phone service and online ordering, but it will extend even to secretarial work. Many contemporary secretaries are no longer in-house employees, but rather “virtual assistants” who use technology to remotely handle a number of businesses at once.

More and more female jobs will come under scrutiny as employers look to replace their female workers with software and robots. In fact, I’m fairly sure that it isn’t virtual sex that will really change the balance of power between men and women, but rather virtual labor. As these systems will require technical knowledge in programming, engineering and operating machines, the labor advantage should swing back to men, who tend to be far more interested in these fields.

Although the modern world seems very advanced when looking backward, if we look forward it’s pretty obvious there’s a lot of room for development and technological progress, and given the low-tech, repetitive nature of most female jobs, they seem like prime candidates for replacement by robots. In fact, I can’t wait for the first robo-restaurant to open here in Seattle. As the standard tip has grown from 10% to 25% over the years, it will be a relief for the customer as well as the owner to eliminate human wait staff. If I want human company and contact, I’ll just bring my kids or my friends!

{ 88 comments… read them below or add one }

Matt Strictland April 7, 2012 at 11:40

Society is not going to last long with high unemployment and it should be interesting in the Chinese curse sense to see if we get a slow collapse (everywhere is Detroit or armed rural enclaves ) a polite collapse (no babies ala lots of places) a violent implosion, extermination by the 1% (say they use automation to kill everyone save a few comely slaves and a few boffins) , social credit or Communism of some kind

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Traveller April 7, 2012 at 11:43

Interesting considerations.

Anyway, as you said, it is only in the past we find a serious contribution of women to the society.

Today, productivity of women is statistically irrelevant. And with laws, affirmative action etc, they do not care.

So, today, women just get their money from judges or the state, not from the work environment.

When speaking of economics and women, let us never forget that.

Since women vote, government will never allow women suffer crises or unemployment. Instead, it will try to make us homeless and poor and it will try to put us in slave labor camps to produce for parasitic women who does not even exit from the bed in the morning.

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Bufface April 7, 2012 at 11:45

OT –

A new complaint from the wimynzz.

All those doctors sticking their hands and forceps into the birth canal to ensure the child is delivered healthy is actually a form of rape.

I’m not making this shit up.

Is “Birth Rape” for Real?

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Rebel April 7, 2012 at 11:49
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Opus April 7, 2012 at 11:55

At the upper and lower ends women cannot and do not want to compete with men. They are thus well suited to the middle ground where little can go wrong and even if it does it hardly matters. Take Encorpera: If its HR/Marketing/PR sections were all imadvertantly closed tomorrow would anyone notice? So why, you may wonder, do these Departments exist. In my observation, the purpose of filling up offices with females is because men simply enjoy female company, and if she is eye-candy, so much the better.

It is not that men are redundant, it is that women are utilised as thinly disguised Courtesans.

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Gunn April 7, 2012 at 12:11

A fundamental misunderstanding in mainstream economics is the idea that we have surplus labour, hence a degree of unemployment is inevitable absent government intervention.

In reality, throughout human history, labour has always been the constraining factor, and this holds true even today. The evidence supporting this is that there are resources that we don’t use as we don’t have the manpower to do so. If labour was really in surplus, companies would make use of unused labour to exploit unused resources, until the labour pool was fully used. That they don’t indicates that at some point its no longer cost effective to use more labour to produce goods, i.e. there is a market distortion that prevents labour being fully utilised.

Whats really happening to create our apparent employment problems is that labour is mispriced, particularly in the west. Socialist agitators have argued for decades that the working man is exploited, and the only cure is to protect wage levels*. This prices out the bottom end of the market, whose labour is not worth even minimum wage. At the same time, by requiring that they cannot be employed, government creates the need for welfare payments that then serve to push up the minimum wage requirements over time for those still working, creating a vicious cycle of dependency.

The fallacy of the minimum wage thinking, and the tieback to this article, is that by making labour more efficient (i.e. using less / paying less to achieve a given outcome) we are devaluing it.

The solution to our current ‘problem’ is for government to get out of the way (note the very important corollary here, that big business should also not be able to influence governments through bribes either) and end the farce of minimum wages, business regulation and employment laws, and corporatist lobbying that perpetuates market distortions. If this was to occur, then companies would be free to pursue new opportunities with the labour freed up by technological advances, increasing the overall level of production at a societal level.

Ultimately, what matters is not the quantum of wealth available to individuals (whether through labour income or utilisation of assets) but what that wealth can buy in terms of end products. Even though labour is far more productive today (and therefore a smaller component of the activities that go into product generation), the lifestyle of the average man is better than the aristocracy of old. There is no reason to suppose that this trend cannot be continued, as we are still a long way off from marginal labour costs being zero.

*wage levels here meaning pay and benefits, including requirements to hire particular sub-groups such as women. It should be noted also that even in jobs that supposedly give women the edge in productivity terms, the reality is often that in a regulation free environment men actually outperform women. In other words, government affirmative action devalued male labour (in the context of this article) by requiring companies to employ women instead of men. This artificial increase in price for womens’ labour may ironically have provided greater stimulus for companies to outsource to other countries (to escape inane regulations) and to make better use of capital assets and thereby make (womens’) labour more efficient.

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American April 7, 2012 at 12:46

If one was to look around oneself, and see who the loudest mouthpieces are who are “Inflaming” the public against the patriarchy, did not come from the matriarchal underclass that they are promoting.
Maybe the loud mouth white Gender-Raunch establishment should have to send their children to the matriarchal schools that they are saying is so “Forward” and non violent.

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American April 7, 2012 at 12:50

Its interesting…Most of the folks complaining about “the patriarchy” come from the segment of society with orderly patriarchal schools where students still get an education.
Maybe the white liberal gender-feminist establishment should be required to send their children to the matriarchal underclass schools that they are saying is so “foward” and advanced.

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Eric April 7, 2012 at 13:03

According to some of the MGTOW writers, there’s a good possibility that women are going to be replaced by robots in relationships as well! I think more and more women are discovering that forced social marginalization and disenfrancishment works both ways. And they’re also learning the hard way just which gender ‘doesn’t need’ the other.

This economic trend Price mentions is essentially MGTOW on a commercial basis. Businessmen and corporatists alike; fed up with insatiable feminist demands for ‘inclusion’; ‘hiring quotas’; ‘sensitivity training’; fake ‘harassment charges’ and equally fake demands for ‘social consciousness’—not to mention other problems like paid maternity leaves and healthcare coverage for the plethora of psychatric issues: these men (mostly entreprenuers in technology field) have found, like MGTOWs, that the modern western feminized woman is more trouble than she’s worth.

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Eric April 7, 2012 at 13:10

Opus:
Yes and no. Women in our culture are educated to compete with men. It’s just that they don’t want to compete with men unless there’s an unfair advantage built into the system.

That’s one of the reasons why, in relationships, women throw themselves at thugs and losers and treat any real man with contempt. A woman has no trouble competing with and feeling to superior to a dysfunctional thug; but she can’t get anything from a real man except a short-term gain—after which she then revenges herself on the man to restore her ego-equilibrium by defeating him in some way.

It’s the same in the economic sphere. They won’t/don’t want to compete with men—unless—the odds are so stacked in their favor than they can compete against men successfully. Everything about these feminized bitches is a power play and self-interest; nothing more.

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Eric April 7, 2012 at 13:18

Bufface;
I remember, about 10 years ago now, talking to a Seattle police detective who was quitting the force to become a private investigator. He told me that the city had adopted a law then whereby looking at a woman for longer than 30 seconds would be defined as ‘visual rape’. That, and his general disgust with the feminization and political correctness of the SPD enticed him to leave.

That and the ‘birth rape’ story are just additional reasons why American women should be avoided like the plague. They want the freedom to be sluts and don’t want the commitment of marriage; then they complain that they’re like that because there aren’t any good men left; and then they threaten men who might be interested in them with false accusations! Any man who gets involved with one is playing Russian Roulette with five loaded chambers.

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Uncle Elmer April 7, 2012 at 13:55

Long ago, in the Time Before Trayvon :

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57410849/calif-teen-splits-from-teacher-after-his-arrest

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Bufface April 7, 2012 at 14:15

He told me that the city had adopted a law then whereby looking at a woman for longer than 30 seconds would be defined as ‘visual rape’.

The get so much attention when they cry rape that they are trying to expand its use to other areas.

Little do they know that they are crying wolf one too many times and eventually few will care anymore.

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Anti Idiocy April 7, 2012 at 14:16

A significant percentage of women are government employees. Get rid of paper pushers and otherwise useless bureaucrats, and women’s employment will take a big hit.

“Women are nearly 50 percent more likely to work in the public sector than are men” http://www.dol.gov/_sec/media/reports/femalelaborforce/

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Mobile PT April 7, 2012 at 14:23

“For example, women used to be the only ones to deliver babies, sew and weave clothes, run household industry and make bread and ale.”

Yes, ale making was not only traditionally done by women back in the Middle Ages, the ale-making guilds were women. Another interesting piece of history about the 12-15th century is that young women typically had much better educational opportunities than their contemporary young men. Young women of sufficient social class and wealth would be educated in Latin, astronomy, medicine, art, and the like while young men of similar class and wealth were expected to go off and be a squire, literally shoveling horse manure while his sisters received an education. He typically did get to study martial arts as well, in preparation for the glorious day he might have his belly slit open and his guts spilled into the mud of some battle field far from home. Poor, poor women. So, so oppressed.

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American April 7, 2012 at 15:28

Eric, interesting comment on why women seek the barbaric sociopathic thugs.
I think that these barbaric / socio-pathic thugs remind women of their own primitive un-refined instincts, and hence they seek these socio-pathic thugs out for breeding.
By giving women “all the control” over mating dynamics, America is now breeding a disproportionate amount of violent socio-pathic thugs into society.
This dynamic may be slowly changing because of DNA technology.
For example.. For hundreds of years many American women have been breeding with the brutal, socio-path, barbarian types, while getting a broken beta male to think they are his kids, and she turns the Beta into her domestic slave.
But With DNA technology, we may see a slowing of this dynamic of women breeding violence into society by breeding with these violent barbarian socio-paths.
Beta domestic slaves may not be so easilly duped if he knows for sure his children are actually the drug dealing thugs net doors offspring.

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TFH April 7, 2012 at 16:16

Wow, Bill Bennett is really doubling down (as a member of the Great Doubling Down on Misandry) :

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/140393/

And James Taranto is ramping up his counterattack.

Things are happening, people….

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TFH April 7, 2012 at 16:19

Automation eliminating female jobs is one thing.

But VR Sex making all women who are below a 7 in looks greatly use their value to men (by 2020), is even more disruptive.

From CNBC : VR Comes of Age :

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46222531

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TFH April 7, 2012 at 16:19

*greatly LOSE their value..

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Opus April 7, 2012 at 16:20

@Eric

What a relaxed attitude they have in Seattle. About ten years ago – and entirely inadvertantly – and at the time they had those split to the crotch skirts, I noticed sitting opposite me, out of the corner of my eye and for a micro-second, a woman whose skirt was coming apart. She was the one wearing the revealing skirt, I wouldn’t have done her with yours, and the look was entirely involuntary, yet she had the nerve to accuse me of sexual harrassing her with my gaze!

Just back from the pub – turned down a 4 with a plunging neck-line – one does have ones reputation to consider, and I’d probably never get rid of her.

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Eric April 7, 2012 at 16:54

American:
You’re absolutely right about the long-term consequences, whatever the cause. I can see society already breaking down along the lines that you’ve described. I think in the next generation or so, society will become increasingly stratified—the men who’ve married foreign or traditional women, and MGTOW men will form the civilized and productive class; while the feminized women and their bad-boy lovers will foster a new class of barbarians and bums. We may actually go back to the days of castles and walled cities again.

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Eric April 7, 2012 at 17:06

Mobile PT:
In the Roman times, wives were chosen for their educational acumen. Roman women were in complete charge of the home while men handled the affairs of business or government. On a large estate, the wife would have about as much responsibility as the head of a fairly large company today.

One of the reforms Caesar Augustus instituted was paying stipends to middle and agrarian class stay-at-home mothers, which they automatically lost if they divorced. Families that produced at least three children were eligible. If they produced over nine children, the parents were eligible for life-long pensions and their children’s education was automatically free. If they were foreign-born, they could obtain Roman citizenship. Abortion was illegal and strictly punished; adoption agencies, in contrast, were subsidized. Foreign wives were automatically given citizenship if they married a Roman citizen.

And the feminists have the nerve to call those guys neanderthals and patriarchal oppressors? Where’s a good Caesar when we need one?

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Dalrock April 7, 2012 at 17:17

Professor Mentu wrote an interesting post on the profitability/efficiency of female employees: http://universityofman.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/women-more-productive-than-men/

He quotes an employer who did an experiment comparing all male and all female operations and found that while women were more efficient men were much more profitable:

“What I didn’t expect to find is that the stores run by an all male staff are much more profitable. Women call in sick to work more often, take more paid time off, cost me more in medical expenses, negotiate less with vendors, and require much more managerial support than men. The girls do a good job, but they eat up resources like it’s going out of style. They want all the training courses from the corporate flag [paid time off], the shift managers want to join associations [paid time off], they wreak havoc on the staffing schedule, call me over every little gossipy thing, and spend co-op money like it’s free – it’s a circus around there. ”

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Dalrock April 7, 2012 at 17:23

@Opus

She was the one wearing the revealing skirt, I wouldn’t have done her with yours, and the look was entirely involuntary, yet she had the nerve to accuse me of sexual harrassing her with my gaze!

Over the last few years I’ve noticed many women around my own age have become more and more aggressive with their cleavage. It isn’t enough to wear a low cut top, they have to hang them in your face. If you move or turn, they adjust accordingly under the mistaken assumption that you didn’t notice what they were up to. They know they really have you when you are sitting down, which allows them to literally hang them in your face. Then of course they feign indignation that they have been ogled (which is pure fantasy). The faux outrage is something to behold.

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Rebel April 7, 2012 at 17:34

Waht a sad sight it is to see such a beautiful society crumble and collapse.

The most maddening thing is that women are totally unable to see the damages they are causing. They will be among the first casualties when this great civilization of ours collapses, and yet they don’t care a bit.

I suspect that there is a strong element of suicide here. Even with the voices of thousands of men, women will lend a deaf ear and keep on forging toward annihilation.

Wise men are those who can see what’s up on the horizon and prepare accordingly. This means that women will have to be left behind and abandoned to their fate.

When that happens, I hope they will at long last find happiness…

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Epoche* April 7, 2012 at 18:22

Rebel, I agree with you that women cannot see the problems that exist. If the government defaults on its debt women (and this includes many childless middle aged women) will have to resort to prostitution to put a house over their heads. If the lower class chinese knew that their slavery consisted in exempting half of americans from paying income taxes then the gender raunch bs ends.

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jaego April 7, 2012 at 18:29

Two observations: Increasingly I see White Men with White Women who have Black children. A two fold cuckold, both personal and racial.

The jobs aren’t coming back. Technology takes away far more jobs than it creates. The market is simply the law of the jungle. Human beings should rise above such things. Not get rid of it – but prune it and water it: a garden as opposed to a jungle.

The Solyndra Syndrome is the worst of all possible worlds: inept goverment involvement that didn’t block Chinese solar panels from coming in and under cutting our’s. If the Goverment goes it, it has to go in more forcefully which means the dreaded T word – tariffs. The tariff is one of the engines of nation building. Continental Europe caught up with Britain’s industry when Napoleon was able to blockade the ports against British imports. Put it this way: if eveyone hates something this much, there has to be alot of good in it – considering the corruption of our Culture that is.

Sure we could compete with coolie labor in the free market – by becoming coolies ourselves. Why should we? Fuck that. Tha’ts the wrong road, the road Down.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 18
Rebel April 7, 2012 at 18:53

I don’t see much cause for rejoicing. From where I stand, things look very bleak. Will enough people come out of their torpor and realize that we are in a very dire situation?

I can hardly believe that nothing can be done and that everybody is going to give up? Giving up all hope?
Or is everybody blind?

We are like a train going full speed on a railroad track and in direct course with a wall. It’s impossible not to see what’s coming now.

The apathy leaves me speechless.

Men are hurting badly and their hurt will further increase. But women’s fate is much worse according to me. Already, more than half of them will not be able to retire: they don’t have a suitable pension plan to allow them a barely acceptable retirement.

Someone’s going to hurt very badly and I’m afraid that the government will not be able to bail women out, even if they (govt) put maximum pressure on men.

If women’s work become irrelevant, I would expect many of them to live in utter misery. What will the feminists do for them?

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Epoche* April 7, 2012 at 19:19

Someone’s going to hurt very badly and I’m afraid that the government will not be able to bail women out, even if they (govt) put maximum pressure on men.
———————————–
its coming, maximum pressure on men.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-11/financial-repression-has-come-back-to-stay-carmen-m-reinhart.html
you will have nothing to show for your life unless the political system changes and most men know this now…………..

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Huck April 7, 2012 at 19:40

Today, at Trader Joes, many of the employees were wearing bright lipstick. Not just the women, many of the men especially younger ones were wearing it too. It was overdone and gross. Most of the older men (35+) and several in their 20s refused to play the game and wear it. I asked it was Lipstick Day and was told it was corporates idea to inspire Team Spirit. I replied the TJ HR department was run by a bunch of idiot feminists trying to feminize the men. The older guys laughed and agreed. A female cashier was horrified by my comment.

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Uncle Elmer April 7, 2012 at 20:18

“…They know they really have you when you are sitting down, which allows them to literally hang them in your face….”

——

D’Arcy Thompson said it best : …The tree under its burden of leaves or fruit has changed its every curve and outline since its boughs were bare, and a mantle of snow will alter its configuration again. Sagging wrinkles, hanging breasts and many another sign of age are part of gravitation’s slow relentless handiwork…

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Mark Plus April 7, 2012 at 20:18

Peter Thiel and George Gilder had a fascinating debate about progress recently, posted on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/XRrLyckg8Nc

Thiel argues that most engineering has become effectively illegal since 1970, hence our failed “space age,” the lack of new energy sources, the relinquishment of nuclear power, the grounding of supersonic air travel and so forth. Computer software and finance stayed relatively free of interference, however, so the smartest graduates with STEM degrees became programmers and quants because they found other avenues closed to their cognitive abilities.

Thiel doesn’t mention the role of feminism in the failure of progress, but I strongly suspect it played a role. When women get into formerly male elites which make the big decisions, their risk-aversion, their disinclination to think rationally and their insistence on getting girls into STEM fields when they lack the ability and the persistence to do well in them (talk about a waste of educational resources!) have probably discouraged men from trying to tackle the hard problems we need to solve. No wonder life in the 21st Century just doesn’t look all that futuristic.

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MRA April 7, 2012 at 20:24

:Since women vote, government will never allow women suffer crises or unemployment. Instead, it will try to make us homeless and poor and it will try to put us in slave labor camps to produce for parasitic women who does not even exit from the bed in the morning.”

I think you are right but just 1/2, remember we have the private sector, the private sector will be the one who devalues women in the end, just like Price stand, men tend to be more into tech than women, so the robotic Artificial Intelligence future is in the hands of the nerdy boys being rejected by the hot girls in high school right now, just Foxcon a company in China who build the vast majority of cellphones in the world right now will replace all its employees with robots by 2014 and I’m talking about 1 millions of Chinese, just the same here in the Western, Silicon Valley is male dominated, Apple launched Siri last year just imagine several companies launching similar AI in an entire department, get the picture?, Google just show virtual reality glasses which make the future more simple and ease.

You know what this futures tech and companies have in common? they are developed by men, lets say 99.99%….the 00.01% could be an Asian woman.

The public sector will feel the pressure, the private sector could have Artificial Intelligence like Apple’s Siri when you can talk to the robotic receptionist who won’t complain about menstrual period, whole Secretary department with women who don’t get pregnant and don’t falsely accuse men of rape……hooooo and better for the employer the robot is not going to sue the company.

We will have the public sector taking all the women who are not necessary in the private and they won’t be able to hold the pressure.

Just read some liberals newspaper in the “tech” section and see how they have a “women tech” they want to make like they are doing something when they are doing nothing.

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MRA April 7, 2012 at 22:12

I was at BJ’s some weeks ago and I noticed something rare but good, there were more men than women……………as cashier, In fact at that time, it was 2:00 PM there weren’t any women working there, I don’t know what is happening but the private sector in purpose to get out of the crisis is going against political correctness in some way, in fact some securities used to be women physically not prepare for the job, in the last moths I’m starting to see more men than women and even clothes stores, men are starting to be more around than never before.

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greyghost April 7, 2012 at 22:56

MRA
See post by Dalrock above
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/04/07/as-industrialization-devalued-male-labor-automation-will-devalue-female-labor/#comment-143752
Need money and profits? Hire a man.

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greyghost April 7, 2012 at 23:10

I used to be a production supervisor at a factory The last step of manufacturing was the sort line and packing. And you guessed it the line was a group of women. Technology caught up to them bitches when an eye was developed that can determine color matching and surface imperfection. That machine replaced 4 shifts of 7 to 8 women. And they added a tech to each shift to keep it running.
If you have a son make sure he is a technical martial artist. Math, computer,electrical,plumbing,electronics,hydraulics,HVAC, welding and all automotive skills. body and paint and engine repair of automobiles is a good way to make a ton of under the table money. A real valuable skill or ability to know the nomenclature and how to shop for parts is a huge money saver and is also a money making ability.

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MRA April 7, 2012 at 23:31

greyghost April 7, 2012 at 23:10
If you have a son make sure he is a technical martial artist. Math, computer,electrical,plumbing,electronics,hydraulics,HVAC, welding and all automotive skills. body and paint and engine repair of automobiles is a good way to make a ton of under the table money. A real valuable skill or ability to know the nomenclature and how to shop for parts is a huge money saver and is also a money making ability.

The good part is that boys by default are attracted to STEM, I think one of the best way to start is with videogames, it helps boys with creativity and software hardware, then they will try to make their own games and so on.

I wrote about these new tech boys on my blog:

http://mrafront.blogspot.com/2011/11/smart-young-boy-thomas-suarez.html

I’d say software engineer along with good maths is the best future for boys, I mean our lives already is surrounded by software because everything is programmed and within 10 years the high demands for such careers will be in the sky.

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AAvictim April 8, 2012 at 00:20

@Greyghost

Some factories hire females for seasonal work. They get excited waiting to be laid off so they can collect unemployment.

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MarcusAurelius April 8, 2012 at 03:12

I don’t know if the above article is good for men either, to be frank. The article says the engineering of the service robots will swing the balance of power back to men in the work force….but I don’t see HOW. While this may be good for a small sector of the population, i.e. men with advanced degrees or degrees in things like engineering…..it won’t benefit anyone else. These robots will be manufactured in places like China…so we won’t be making them. No jobs there. And what about all the countless men who do work in sales, in retail, and the service industry? Let’s be blunt here: the service industry may be ridiculously low paying….but at least it’s something!! If we just automate everything with robots and software….all this will do over the next few decades is create even more massive unemployment. The service industry is essentially the last sector of which lower educated men and women can find employment. If we render this obsolete too there will be even greater poverty in America….while of course the corporations will be using these technologies to cash in on even bigger profits from cutting labor costs, etc….all this will do is further the already great divide. How can this be a win for anyone, men or women???

I swear, the only way for this to work without causing even more widespread poverty is to implement Murray’s Guaranteed Income Plan, but perhaps at an even more drastic scale. Simply eliminate the need for people to work….altogether. Does this sound crazy? Maybe. But I don’t see it any other way. What are you going to do with these tons of cashiers, waiters and secretaries that will now be out of work….and undereducated to find other employment??

I think we are being highly misguided on this issue. The day I start seeing robots as waiters instead of people…is the day I think we have reached the beginning of the end: when we would choose supposed ‘effeciency’ over compassion towards are fellow man. When I go to a restaurant I always tip really high, and I’m proud to do it. Why? Because I spent many years on the frontlines of the service industry myself…and I can relate. These people are struggling to just get by, to pay their rent and keep their lights on. Now we are just going to eliminate them? Screw that. I’ve got friends who work in the service industry, friends who are waiters….what are we going to tell people like that? Sorry I guess you’ll have to be homeless now?

If I see one of these robots in some restaurant, I’ll probably want to smash it with a hammer. This benefits no one but the greedy corporations the way I see it.

Am i the only one who thinks this way on here?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 6
Opus April 8, 2012 at 03:18

@Dalrock

As a trouble shared is a trouble halved, it is nice to know that I am not the only one (though the example I gave concerned crotch rather than breasts) who has been sexually harrassed by women in low-cut (or tight fitting) tops, and indeed having achieved their purpose they act outraged, (gosh) that any man would respond to female flesh. Strangely, they do seem to be genuinely outraged; oblivious to their part they play in producing the response. Not that this is a new phenomenon: Aged twelve, I attended my first Dance (I was far too young) and at some point in the evening a ‘friend’ of my Mother (the wife of a Surgeon) approached me. I, being shorter then her, she bent over to speak to me and in doing so revealed to me the full extent of her cleavage. I (was not) aged twelve sexually attracted to fifty year old women and even had I been certainly not her, but I could not keep my eyes off her mammaries. She did not complain of course, as she was indulging in a form of child sexual abuse.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6
Ode April 8, 2012 at 04:31

Rebel

Men are hurting badly and their hurt will further increase. But women’s fate is much worse according to me. Already, more than half of them will not be able to retire: they don’t have a suitable pension plan to allow them a barely acceptable retirement.

According to the US census bureau, the median income for men is $40,000. To put it in plain English, that’s how much Joe Sixpack makes in a year. We can conclude, half the female population will never be able to find a man superior to that caliber for the very simple reason that half the men make less than $40,000. Ouch those are not pretty numbers, especially for women who dream about finding a high status man who can pull in six figures, then again women tend to make their decisions based on emotions rather than mathematical reality. If you told the average single woman she has a 50% chance of pairing with a man who makes less than $40,000 she’d take that as an insult.

The problem with younger women is they grossly over estimate their worth. They fail to understand how valuable and how rare a good beta male provider really is. I agree there will be a lot of old hags who will look back on their life and bitterly regret the decisions they made in their youth.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 0
Father Marker April 8, 2012 at 04:34

Here is some real life research done by a bloke who owned a number of fuel stations about how women are more productive than men but men are more profitable than women.

https://universityofman.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/women-more-productive-than-men/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Father Marker April 8, 2012 at 04:42

Dalrock beat me to it so please kill the above post.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Bufface April 8, 2012 at 04:44

Thiel doesn’t mention the role of feminism in the failure of progress, but I strongly suspect it played a role. When women get into formerly male elites which make the big decisions, their risk-aversion, their disinclination to think rationally and their insistence on getting girls into STEM fields when they lack the ability and the persistence to do well in them (talk about a waste of educational resources!) have probably discouraged men from trying to tackle the hard problems we need to solve. No wonder life in the 21st Century just doesn’t look all that futuristic.

Although I agreed with Thiel in that video, Gilder seems to have taken the red pill long before most of us:

From wiki:
“”…men are inferior sexually…but they are superior in the workplace and in the great creative ventures outside the family circle. This has been true throughout human history and always will be true. The denial of it is perverse and destructive because men do have an absolutely central role in society that is commensurate with, yet different from, the familial role of women.”

and

“Gilder also describes women as “a very physiological consciousness,” and asserts that women—due to inborn, biologically determined differences from men—must give up “choice” or else the family will be destroyed. “

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Epoche* April 8, 2012 at 06:07

The solution to our current ‘problem’ is for government to get out of the way (note the very important corollary here, that big business should also not be able to influence governments through bribes either) and end the farce of minimum wages, business regulation and employment laws, and corporatist lobbying that perpetuates market distortions. If this was to occur, then companies would be free to pursue new opportunities with the labour freed up by technological advances, increasing the overall level of production at a societal level.
—————————————
what is needed is a social system that allows the individual to get his hands on capital. a lot of good could be done by exempting people who make less than 10 million in a year from income taxes.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
Anonymous April 8, 2012 at 06:10

You have always been dirty opus. Always.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
greyghost April 8, 2012 at 06:26

MarcusAurelius
Robots require a lot of work women won’t or can’t do. The amount of non computer and techical work that does require skill is huge. Mechanics that can do electrical trouble shooting is big. Robots are mechanical,electronic, electrical , and software based ,and throw in weigh a ton.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4
Uncle Elmer April 8, 2012 at 08:04

“I’d say software engineer along with good maths is the best future for boys, I mean our lives already is surrounded by software because everything is programmed and within 10 years the high demands for such careers will be in the sky.”

————————————

Yes and no, MRA.

Having worked in tech for 30 years, and the early part in developing industrial robotics applications, that is, putting the robots to work on menial manufacturing tasks, and much of the rest as a “software engineer”, being fairly sick of the low character of “programmers” in general drove me back to grad school in an engineering science discipline.

Here’s an additional qualifier to what you and the other guys are saying about helping boys get into tech : the continual evolution of computing tools makes the ability to apply computation a required skill in all disciplines. What used to be a separate “job”, programming, is now required knowledge everyone hoping to make a career in tech has to have.

The key for young men to understand then is 1) gain expertise in a discipline such as accounting, physics, automotives, chemistry, whatever 2) gain expertise in computation tools as applied to your chosen discipline, and 3) learn to sell yourself and bring in funding for projects.

I agree with greyghost , robotics above all deals with mechanics and the associated electrical and software infrastructure. There’s plenty of work there for technically-minded young men, even for those who might have an interest in old-school trades such as machine tools. But applying robotics requires politics, salesmanship, and business acumen. Making the damn thing work is the easy part. Selling it and making it profitable is the real challenge.

I nearly wrote a Spearhead essay “Why the New Guy Can’t Code”, the point being, because established programmers are cowardly assholes who will use the unique aspects of software development to contrive a situation where their competitors will be eliminated while enhancing their own job security. In closing, I would advise young men to pick up some good hands-on mechanical or electrical craft skills as protection against the perfidy of computer nerds and their infernal allies, Women in Tech.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Uncle Elmer April 8, 2012 at 08:25

“If I see one of these robots in some restaurant, I’ll probably want to smash it with a hammer. This benefits no one but the greedy corporations the way I see it.

Am i the only one who thinks this way on here?”

—————————-

No, and robots are not going to replace any decent food service jobs.

Let’s face it, most western food is not cooked, it is assembled and re-heated prior to delivery to your table, having been packaged by robots and immigrants in some factory, then frozen for distribution to franchise operations. I am still pissed off about my experience at “Applebees” last year where I spent $50 dollars for what turned out to be pre-packaged microwave food. That “waitresses” and “swabbies” and phony ambiance put a final human touch on it does not change the fact that you are eating manufactured food
. A machine excreted it.

Decent food you would really want to eat will always be cooked by humans who enjoy their trade and take pride in their craft.

However, I predict that the next big music industry scandal will be when a new “hip-hop” or “C&W” star turns out to be a computer.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 2
keyster April 8, 2012 at 10:58

@Elmer
“…because established programmers are cowardly assholes who will use the unique aspects of software development to contrive a situation where their competitors will be eliminated while enhancing their own job security.”

I know EXACTLY what you mean.
And they snow management by making themselves appear indispensible. I was a Product/Project Manager that would call them out on their bullshit monopoly of the mysterious “code”; and I made plenty of enemies by doing so, while also saving my Encorpera task masters millions. They think they have a devine right to their “coding expertise”, and that they’re the exalted “all-knowing”. It’s really not all that hard or mysterious.

As far as Automotive repair –
I owned and operated a shop for several years. I don’t recommend a career in automovite repair for a few reasons:

1) It’s highly competitive.
2) Cars aren’t breaking at near the rates they used to and when they do…
3) …people just buy new ones.

Car repair is going the way of the appliance or TV repair man. The costs to repair keep rising as the cost to buy a replacement stays the same, (or goes down). The maintainence business is very low margin and – – see #1 above. Cars have become “throw-away” items.

If a young man has an interest he should specialize in deisel engine repair, working on big rigs and alike. But even then computer control, metalergy and fluids are so perfected that engines and trannys just aren’t breaking. 100K miles in the new break-in period.

If anyone has any questions about auto repair feel free to ask.
I’ll give you the insider’s take.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2
keyster April 8, 2012 at 11:09

“However, I predict that the next big music industry scandal will be when a new “hip-hop” or “C&W” star turns out to be a computer.”

In essence that already happened (Milli Vanilli), and still is (Brittany Spears, et al). The amount of digital signal processing that goes into manufacturing a recorded song is astounding. And now that computers have caught up in speed, they’re processing vocals real-time during performances, with pitch correction and chorusing (layering), etc.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
Eric April 8, 2012 at 14:43

Opus:
You notice, though, that all these ‘harassment’ complaints only seem directed at one particular type of man. Somehow, I’ve noticed that women don’t seem to mind ‘strutting their stuff’ in front of bums and thugs. Last Summer, when Seattle held its ‘Slutwalk’; they made a point to march through a part of town infested with low-level drug-dealers and aggressive panhandlers. Meanwhile, they were denouncing all normal men as ‘potential rapists’.

Whenever I see a group of street vermin congregating around on a city sidewalk, I notice very few women make a point to walk around them or avoid them even though they’re inevitably going to be showered with catcalls, &c. But if a normal guy looks at girl ‘too long’ it becomes ‘visual rape!’ LOL.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Eric April 8, 2012 at 15:13

Keyster/Elmer:
Regarding automisation and business trends: I think that the stratification of society I mentioned earlier will have an impact and opportunity here. As the productive and parasitic classes increasingly separate: there will be more of a demand for automation in businesses catering to the latter; and a corresponding increase in more specialized, one-on-one employment among the former. I know people in the restaurant industry and they tell me it’s already happening there. People will pay extra to eat in a nicer restaurant just to avoid the kinds of scum who are flocking to the more ‘general-public’ fast food places. The same is happening with with supermarkets. And I’ve seen it happening with skilled labor to some degree already. The people who own the box stores, supermarkets, and fast-food places aren’t going to want to deal with their own clientele either, and so will be more inclined to automate.

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The Caliph April 8, 2012 at 15:59

@ MarcusAurelius April 8, 2012 at 03:12

“Because I spent many years on the frontlines of the service industry myself…and I can relate. These people are struggling to just get by, to pay their rent and keep their lights on. Now we are just going to eliminate them? Screw that. I’ve got friends who work in the service industry, friends who are waiters….what are we going to tell people like that? Sorry I guess you’ll have to be homeless now?

Am i the only one who thinks this way on here?”

Service sectors jobs like waiter and cashier over the phone customer service are supposed to be transitional jobs you do while young to earn money while you kit yourself in an actual skill.

You know…., that extra job on the side you do to get by while in university or trade school learning a craft.

If the only marketable skill you can ever have in life is something i can do myself (serve my own food) at an all you can eat buffet or check myself out at woolworths/walmarts without need for you as a cashier, Just go and kill yourself please.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 13
The Caliph April 8, 2012 at 16:09

@ Ode April 8, 2012 at 04:31

“According to the US census bureau, the median income for men is $40,000. To put it in plain English, that’s how much Joe Sixpack makes in a year. We can conclude, half the female population will never be able to find a man superior to that caliber for the very simple reason that half the men make less than $40,000. ”

You fell for it, median average is different from modal average or mean average at that.

The real average i want to know is what income range do the most (Mode) joe six packs fall into.

9 out of 10 people earning 100k and the 10th earning 1 million bucks will give you a different median income (500k) compared to the modal average which is that most (9 out of 10) joe six packs only earn 100k.

What is the most common income for Joe sixpacks US Censor Bureau???? Give me the modal average.

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Ted April 8, 2012 at 16:27

@Elmer and Keyster

You sound like a right pair of managers.

“…because established programmers are cowardly assholes who will use the unique aspects of software development to contrive a situation where their competitors will be eliminated while enhancing their own job security.”

A manager’s job is to keep control by playing his charges off against each other, but it seems that you lost out on that one.

“I know EXACTLY what you mean.
“And they snow management by making themselves appear indispensible. I was a Product/Project Manager that would call them out on their bullshit monopoly of the mysterious “code”; and I made plenty of enemies by doing so, while also saving my Encorpera task masters millions. They think they have a devine right to their “coding expertise”, and that they’re the exalted “all-knowing”. It’s really not all that hard or mysterious.”

I’m vaguely interested in how you did that, Mr Keyster. Did you get in there and write better code?

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Thos. April 8, 2012 at 16:27

It used to be that GDP/productivity and the employment rate went hand–in-hand.

Power assisted assembly of heavy industry, and the initial micro computer revolution got rid of a lot of the blue collar assembly and low skill white collar jobs. The the second wave of robotics and networking did the rest.

And the robots will always get better and better. The result has been a separation of GDP and employment.

In short, as productivity per employee goes up, so does the unemployment rate. Even as the economy gathers steam again — and it will — those jobs are not coming back. The people on the bell curve’s left side are well and truly fucked.

What to do with them?

Without jobs, people throw rocks. The G7 countries cannot suffer permanent high unemployment without accompanying social cohesion issues. The result, so far, to my eye, has been a split between the northern countries and the southern countries.

The former have high taxes. Why? The level of social services his much higher because no politician is going to walk to a microphone and say: Let people freeze to death.

The reason why this is so stressful politically in the US is because the US has some parts of it that are cool, but by-and-large it’s a warm country and the political vocabulary of the US is formed in the south with all that cowboy talk.

It’s either use the people on the right side of the bell curve to make things better for everyone, or let reduce half the country to a barter economy.

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Thos. April 8, 2012 at 16:30

“…because established programmers are cowardly assholes who will use the unique aspects of software development to contrive a situation where their competitors will be eliminated while enhancing their own job security.”

Yeah, if the cyclometric complexity of the code is through the roof, and the devs are acting indispensable, it’s because someone — management — let them. There are reasons to over engineer a product, but the personal job security of an individual employee isn’t one of them.

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Like a G-6 April 8, 2012 at 16:59

@MarcusAurelius

>”I don’t know if the above article is good for men either, to be frank. The article says the engineering of the service robots will swing the balance of power back to men in the work force….but I don’t see HOW. While this may be good for a small sector of the population, i.e. men with advanced degrees or degrees in things like engineering…..it won’t benefit anyone else. These robots will be manufactured in places like China…so we won’t be making them. No jobs there. And what about all the countless men who do work in sales, in retail, and the service industry? Let’s be blunt here: the service industry may be ridiculously low paying….but at least it’s something!! If we just automate everything with robots and software….all this will do over the next few decades is create even more massive unemployment. The service industry is essentially the last sector of which lower educated men and women can find employment. If we render this obsolete too there will be even greater poverty in America….while of course the corporations will be using these technologies to cash in on even bigger profits from cutting labor costs, etc….all this will do is further the already great divide. How can this be a win for anyone, men or women???”

What else can you imagine the plan to be, other than mass extermination? Why do you think biolab level 4 materials (armed guards, underground) are being tested and kept in biolab level 2 facilities (above ground, keycard)?

Why are biolaboratories and pharmaceutical companies admitting to manipulating human and animal flu viruses into especially dangerous, highly lethal pathogens, and releasing how they did it?

Why is America turning into a massive police state, with a FEMA management grid going into place, and turning old bases and facilities into internment camps? Why is it that policy and law, like the UN Agenda 21, Convention on Biological Diversity, PDD-51, and NDAA, non-exclusively, that effectively destroys your fundamental rights at the whim of some man at the levers of power, exists?

Hell, why do we find disodium hexafluorosilicate in the tap-water and tooth paste? Why are there cancer viruses and lobotomizing thiomerisol (mercury) in the vaccines? Why are they feeding you neurotoxic artificial sweeteners and fertility-zapping GMOs? Explain the estrogen mimicker Bisphenol-A in almost half the plastic types on the market.

It’s a program to maim and destroy us. Robotization is not promised to you, the plebs. It is promised only to those who serve the system and are deemed fit. The system intends on acting as reality itself (for all intents and purposes to man in general), and it doesn’t intend to be nice.

I predict in the future a few will sit atop the apex while the many below are used and abused. When they are unneeded, or their costs exceeds benefit, they are discarded back to the earth.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 5
Ted April 8, 2012 at 17:59

@Like a G-6

Worse than that:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/technology/sci-tech/russia-working-on-electromagnetic-radiation-guns/story-fn5iztw3-1226317396841

Something you will *really* need your tinfoil hat for.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
Andrew S. April 8, 2012 at 19:07

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/06/11057921-obama-brings-fight-for-women-to-forefront

I’m afraid this “fight,” will never end until men are totally beat down. Some men, like the ones on this site will put up a fight and won’t go into the night quietly, but lets face the facts, we are up against powers that are not going down quietly either and they have just a few more resources to work with.

Nothing would make me happier than to see men wake up, and take back this country from serial panderers like Obama, but I don’t see it happening. As someone on this board said, “not in my lifetime.”

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Uncle Elmer April 8, 2012 at 19:22

Ted : “A manager’s job is to keep control by playing his charges off against each other, but it seems that you lost out on that one.”

———————-

I was referring to Co-Workers, aka “competitors”. Trying to manage them is even worse.

————–

Thos : “Yeah, if the cyclometric complexity of the code is through the roof, and the devs are acting indispensable, it’s because someone — management — let them.”

That’s true, and in no other discipline can they so easily get away with pulling these shenanigans on management. Continued job security is the number one technical goal of all programmers; every line of code is crafted with that objective in mind.

Computing is just a necessary career skill. Develop expertise in other areas or you will find yourself co-competing with some of the people I am talking about.

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greyghost April 8, 2012 at 19:27

Keyster
Very interesting your take on automotive repair. Not everybody can afford a new car. Lets take joe sixpack at 32k a year and 12k year in CS paymets He can’t just buy a new car and may not wish to. i work with a guy that is a spectacular automechanic and he just loves cars in general. What he does is by cars usually nonrunners at the cars for kids auction. Hell get them for under a thousand spen maybe 2 to 500 hundred in parts and sell the car after a few weeks of driving it for a minimum of 1200 profit. He also does regular auto repair on the side and he prices his knowlege and work just below a dealer or typical maintenance shop. He changed out a thermostat for 100 bucks. There is a huge world of people out there that drive and work that are on the outside of the mainstream because their income isn’t very high. But there is a huge customer base for reliable 1500 to 3500 dollar cars. Those cars the people replace because it is cheaper to buy new, well these are the people that get them. These are the first car for the daughter going to college, second car, commuter car I just can’t afford a new car until I graduate car. Skill and technical ability can be a good replacement for money. Know what I know now and the experience I have gained I will most likely not buy a new car again.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Classic Joe April 8, 2012 at 20:02

yeah, not to mention when asians realize that project management is far easier than programming and pays better. Secretarial work, call center type stuff has ‘puters and foreigners – there’s a cultural damn and it’s gonna break at some point. they haven’t yet fully realized how much money there is in trivial BS.

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Ted April 8, 2012 at 20:42

@Uncle Elmer April 8, 2012 at 19:22

“I was referring to Co-Workers, aka “competitors”

If you see them as competitors, you are probably being played.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
Ted April 8, 2012 at 20:44

“project management is far easier than programming and pays better.”

Last place I worked (I’m retired now), most of the project managers were women. They weren’t too good at the programming, but they got by as managers.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Ode April 9, 2012 at 00:16

Caliph

You fell for it, median average is different from modal average or mean average at that.

Yes and what’s your point?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Ode April 9, 2012 at 00:22

Caliph

The real average i want to know is what income range do the most (Mode) joe six packs fall into.

It’s not my job to do your homework. You can find that out for yourself.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Opus April 9, 2012 at 02:24

@Eric

That is a very noticable phenomenon. Such women (not that hot) seek to blame men for the slightest or inadvertant interest, doubtless to raise their MMV and then give it up, whilst not being observed, for thugs and assorted bad-boys.

Reminds me of that Sunday afternoon in the Bar (closed to the general public) when a stripper, who in the event also gave a blow-job to one of our lot, was holding forth, before her performance, about the low state of morality in the country!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Gunn April 9, 2012 at 04:05

@Caliph re: averages

Median is (arguably) the best statistic to use here to calculate the average. Mode is problematic because the choice of salary intervals is arbitrary (mode implies that you have to choose a number of salary buckets e.g. 0-10k,10k-20k,etc with each individual measurement assigned to a bucket, and the modal value being the most populated bucket – which in a situation with a lot of unemployed people, will be likely to be the lowest bucket of values assigned), whilst mean will tend to be significantly higher than the median, particularly where inequality is higher (i.e. a few super-rich guys)

@ those wondering why GDP growth seems not to create jobs:

One of the key reasons why GDP growth seems out of whack with employment is because governments are basically manipulating reported statistics via monetary policy and opaque modifiers to GDP growth in nominal terms to get it back to a so called ‘real rate’ of GDP growth. In other words, GDP growth in most western economies today is driven by negative real growth which is more than offset by inflation of the money supply, which creates apparent positive (nominal) GDP growth.

Re: project management

In my experience, good project management is hard. The kind that gets done in most large corporates today is more like paint-by-numbers according to some idiotic one-size-fits-all framework adopted by the programme management office which is usually staffed by retards that don’t really understand how to deliver projects. The reason for this is the similar to credentialism in education – by creating a ‘standard’ framework, you measure project managers against how well they have done against it rather than actual project outcome. Its why these offices care more about having all the paperwork in place than they do about project delivery on time, on budget, and meeting business needs.

In my experience, women project managers tend to comply with all the standard steps spelt out by the programme office, but whether the actual projects they deliver are worthwhile is entirely hit-and-miss (usually more miss, as by focusing on the standard project lifecycle, they tend to deviate from what would help the business the most).

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Ode April 9, 2012 at 04:13

Mark Plus

Peter Thiel and George Gilder had a fascinating debate about progress recently, posted on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/XRrLyckg8Nc

Perhaps the proper topic of discussion should not be industrialization or automation, but instead Deindustrialization because that’s the direction the USA is heading.

In China and also other East Asian nations, the powers of the state is used for subsidizing industries to give them an unfair global advantage.
In America and also the rest of the western world, the powers of the state is used for subsidizing single mothers’ lifestyle choice to get pumped and dumped by alpha males and thus producing illegitimate children.

Wow how can we compete against that! If the trend continues the western world will be headed towards economic obsolence.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Towgunner April 9, 2012 at 05:10

Modern conveniences have made all of our lives easier. The ubiquitous robot touches all of our lives, consider self check-out kiosks at super markets or an automated phone trees when you try calling your cable company and that’s not even the tip of the tip of the iceberg. That said, it’s never been easier to work then today. I’d venture to say that making ale from scratch was very difficult compared to today’s standards. What I find to be unacceptable is that everyone should be benefiting from technological advances, BUT, as we all know, women are getting a disproportionate and, since they had almost nothing to do with these advances, unfair portion.

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Uncle Elmer April 9, 2012 at 07:03

“I was referring to Co-Workers, aka “competitors”

If you see them as competitors, you are probably being played.

—————————————-

If you don’t see them as competitors, you are a naive amateur. Or you work in government or a government-sponsored division of Encorpera, where market forces do not impose the dog-eat-dog struggle for survival. Easy in those situations for everyone to “get along” and achieve “work/life balance”.

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Thos. April 9, 2012 at 07:14

>the powers of the state is used for subsidizing industries to give them an unfair global advantage.

It’s not remotely unfair. It’s their right to do.

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Uncle Elmer April 9, 2012 at 07:18

“Last place I worked (I’m retired now), most of the project managers were women. They weren’t too good at the programming, but they got by as managers.”

———————

That has been observed many times on this board, and I have seen it personally at Encorpera. Female engineers get “fast-tracked” into project management for bloated endeavors. Men either stay in the trenches or leave for startup opportunities. One only needs to walk past a room where an important “metrics meeting” is in progress with 10 women and 2 dudes, having commenced after the obligatory “inspirational speech” by some aspiring Toastmaster, to get an idea for the dynamics of that phenomenon. The husband of the aging (yet empowered!) ringleader, he himself a highly placed manager, will often drop by to anoint the proceedings. The two dudes will struggle to avert their gaze from the hot young intern and pay respects to the sows, to no avail. Make that one dude, as the other is queer, though highly productive, and an asset to any team trying to get something out the door.

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Ray Manta April 9, 2012 at 07:41

Uncle Elmer wrote:
That’s true, and in no other discipline can they so easily get away with pulling these shenanigans on management.

It’s been my experience that when that happens, management usually deserves to have that pulled on them. Either they make unreasonable demands, lack the technical expertise to evaluate a developer’s performance, or both.

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Ray Manta April 9, 2012 at 07:47

Ted wrote:
Last place I worked (I’m retired now), most of the project managers were women. They weren’t too good at the programming, but they got by as managers.

Not surprising. The primary qualification of a project manager these days is to take credit when things go right and pass the buck when they go wrong.

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keyster April 9, 2012 at 08:20

“He changed out a thermostat for 100 bucks.”

Considering a thermostat is about $8 and to change one shouldn’t take anymore than 30 minutes, I’d say he’s going by dealership mark-up.

And I didn’t nessecesarily mean “new” new.
If you have a car worth say $4K and the engine or tranny goes, costing $2400 to rebuild or replace, you’ll get another car. In my customer base people either couldn’t afford the $2400 or didn’t want to bother investing that much in a depreciating asset. There were some, but it was rare. Used to be $1200 to replace an engine or tranny, price of the used car staying about the same. Overhead, the cost of labor and parts keeps rising. The price of a decent used car hasn’t.

Other thing is that the industry is not regulated so any one who can turn a wrench thinks they can get into it. You need a state license to be a hair dresser, but an auto mechanic working on a vessel that goes 80 mph carrying people, doesn’t need shit. It’s amazing how many bad professional mechanics there are–which is why I do all my own work.

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Thos. April 9, 2012 at 11:11

> The tariff is one of the engines of nation building. Continental Europe caught up with Britain’s industry when Napoleon was able to blockade the ports against British imports.

Tariffs are a tool in the toolbox but not a magic wand.

As far as the Napoleonic blockade, its primary achievement was the destruction of his Empire as trying to blockade a country with a navy after he got his clock cleaned at Trafalgar was more of a political stance than anything useful.

The result was that as he tried enforcing a continental system to blockade GB, he ended up in endless and needless disputes with people who could have been helpful to him. This really requires a lengthy answer but basically, he was a shite economist and the Napoleonic blockade is basically an example of how not to do things.

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Highwasp April 9, 2012 at 16:52

G-6 “I predict in the future a few will sit atop the apex while the many below are used and abused. When they are unneeded, or their costs exceeds benefit, they are discarded back to the earth.”

It seems to me that men have been treated like this for thousands of years. Maybe with feminism we are getting the women ready for the same treatment. Maybe feminism is the prep for mass extermination of both men AND women whereas throughout history men were the primary cannon fodder and exclusively used for slaughter. Over population, feminism ‘equalizing’ the sexes and then mass extermination of both men and women… ?

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Eric April 9, 2012 at 17:05

Opus;
I remember a former client of mine, a white-knight type, who was dating a girl who worked in a strip club. Needless to say, he was mostly her out of trouble during their relationship.

Finally, he proposed to her, if she’d give up what she was doing. Of course, she threw his offer back in his face; because she wasn’t ‘going to give up her independence to be the slave of some man.’

Let’s see: rather than have a husband who idolized her and already proven his commitment by getting her out of trouble constantly; a man who owned his own home and a had a stable business; she preferred to be ‘free and unexploited’ by taking her clothes off and being groped by strange men for a few dollar-tips over her salary.

And these bitches wonder why men want nothing to do them? LOL

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Ted April 9, 2012 at 20:40

“If you don’t see them as competitors, you are a naive amateur. Or you work in government or a government-sponsored division of Encorpera, where market forces do not impose the dog-eat-dog struggle for survival. Easy in those situations for everyone to “get along” and achieve “work/life balance”.

Getting the job, there’s competition. Once you’re doing the job, though, any “competition” wastes time and resources and doesn’t make economic sense. Consider that you may possibly be the object of divide-and-rule tactics.

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SK April 9, 2012 at 23:40

I believe that, as we are already on the verge of running out of petroleum resources, and no hope for inventing any ‘internal combustion engine’ running on ‘plastic or seawater’ , in the future with no vehicles and airplanes, we would require mechanical ability, and that’s where the scale will tilt to men’s side. Plus women will get blamed for not inventing petrol/diesel’s substitutes since they were the ones attending universities and colleges in more number than men. For now, let’s face it guys, there are not enough jobs to go around for everyone. For every woman who does get a job, there’s a man who could have got that job and supported himself and his family…..and vice versa. But this is not happening. What we see is that working women either wanting to marry men who earn more than them or living an independent life which doesn’t contribute to any inter-dependence and thus a burden to the society in terms of productivity (the same applies to independent unmarried men) and that’s where we see the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer sort of thing widening the gap, reinforcing capitalism. But I am quite sure the future, good or bad, would be quite an eye-opener for men and it will sure reveal woman-hood in it entirety. It will be a spiritual awakening for sure.

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Ode April 10, 2012 at 00:02

Thos

It’s not remotely unfair. It’s their right to do.

Of course it is unfair.
By definition competition can only be fair if both sides are playing by the same rules. Economically obviously that is not the case with the west and the east.

Oh but don’t get me wrong I have nothing against the Chinese. If the west is going to lose the title of world economic super power by making a mistake, the Chinese would have to be pretty dumb to not take advantage of such a golden opportunity that probably only happens once every 200 years. As what Napolean Bonaparte once said, “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

I agree!

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Thos. April 10, 2012 at 08:09

>By definition competition can only be fair if both sides are playing by the same rules.

You’re equating sports competition — which should be fair — with economic competition. Each country has the right to govern its economy as it sees fit. The Politbureau of China is not obligated to set any policy in favour of any country other than China.

Canadian politicians are not obligated to help the US.
UK politicians are not obligated to help the US.
German politicians are not obligated to help the US.
Swiss politicians are not obligated to help the US.
Australian politicians are not obligated to help the US.
French politicians are not obligated to help the US.
Belgian politicians are not obligated to help the US.

They’re in the game to benefit their own people.

>If the west is going to lose the title of world economic super power by making a mistake,

Freudian slip. Often on this site, commenters here use “The West” and the “United States” as stand in for each other. Sorry guys, western civilization is a bigger project than one country.

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JB April 10, 2012 at 09:23

I call bullish*t on this.

For all practical, emotional, political and economic purposes, the United States IS the west.

Without American leadership, where would you have the web, the iPhone, medical technology, the entertainment industry. The peace we have in the world today is due exclusively to power and might of American leadership.

The internet — the means with which I am communicating with you right now — was invented by America. It’s the single most important creation in the history of communications and none else can take credit for it.

We won WW2. The Cold War. Created Rock and Roll (which sadly includes KISS but don’t get me started). There’s not a single country in the world that does anything without asking for our permission. We’re the west, we’re the WOLRD. To quote Jesus: Fuck you! If China doesn’t do what we want, we should smack ‘em until they understand who’s boss.

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Just Some Canadian April 11, 2012 at 09:58

And don’t forget — America also invented English.

As a atheist, I’m certainly no expert but I’m not entirely certain you’ve fully grasped the teachings of Jesus.

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AnonCoward April 11, 2012 at 19:31

If China doesn’t do what we want, we should smack ‘em until they understand who’s boss.

=========================================

Rofl.

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