F. Roger Devlin Reviews Murray’s Coming Apart; Murray Apparently Lives in a Bubble, Too

by W.F. Price on February 16, 2012

I read The Bell Curve, written by Richard Hernnstein and Charles Murray, when it first came out in the 90s, and was impressed mainly because it addressed issues, such as the heritability of intelligence, that are usually swept under the rug or vociferously resisted by the PC brigade. Today people pretty much take it for granted that smarter people tend to have smarter children, but not long ago there was still a strong, widely-accepted conviction that environment was the determinant in just about every human difference. Murray and his co-author Richard Hernnstein were largely responsible for shattering this myth, which, incidentally, formed the basis for second wave feminist ideology. Perhaps it was The Bell Curve, among other associated trends, that persuaded feminists to finally drop the absolute equality dogma in favor of playing the perpetual victim and bashing men as evil, irresponsible trash.

Unfortunately, if F. Roger Devlin’s review is any indication, Murray is only adding to the invective, describing working class men in very unflattering ways, and suggesting that what they really need is just more good old fashioned virtue. To a divorced or never-married guy, that just sounds like another social conservative threat; e.g. “what they really need is a good ass-whipping, then they’ll get to work and support those poor, pure little ladies.”

Devlin writes the following in response to Murray’s description of the working class “Fishtown” neighborhood of Philadelphia:

Murray writes that “being a single mother is tough, and it is appropriate to sympathize with women who are in that situation.” He does not say it is appropriate to be sympathetic to the manchildren of Fishtown, and most readers will be left with the impression that what they need is a good kick in the pants. Yet I wonder whether the same factors did not produce the undesirable behavior of both men and women that he notes today.

No, Murray, it is not appropriate to be sympathetic toward “single mothers.” Widows perhaps, but not those who are single mothers on account of their own choices. A woman who left an impossible marriage may be morally neutral, but these days, given the guarantees of support, there’s no reason to be particularly sympathetic to her, and one who left her husband to have an affair or got knocked up out of wedlock in hopes of securing the resources of some victim (the man or the taxpayers) deserves no sympathy whatsoever.

If Murray holds that the “virtues” are men’s responsibility alone, he is simply contributing to the problems that have devastated the American working class. In fact, he is part of the problem. Anyone who refuses to hold single-mothers-by-choice accountable is part of the problem. If women don’t need men, and men have absolutely no guarantee that honest, dedicated labor will reward them with a fulfilling family life, then no amount of coercion or high-minded lecturing is going to convince them that it’s worth it to act like responsible husbands.

It’s getting to the point where I’m tempted to just write these older conservatives off. If they haven’t been through a contemporary, post-Bradley Amendment divorce themselves, they will never get it. Younger men, on the other hand, seem to understand it intuitively. Men under 30 are far more clued in than I was at their age, and it hasn’t even been a decade since then.

Following the above quote, Devlin really gets into it. He is one of the only academics out there who writes honestly and accurately about the real problems. Whatever one may feel about his politics, Devlin’s critiques of feminism are some of the best out there. The only other professionals who eloquently and honestly address the issue from time to time are family law attorneys themselves, because unless they are clinically delusional, it’s impossible to ignore the inherent dysfunction of the system. The main problem with academics is that feminist power in universities is so entrenched that the overwhelming majority of social scientists dare not breathe a word in dissent against feminist orthodoxy.

More from Devlin:

beginning in the 1960s, women became convinced marriage was an imposition to be ‘outraged’ about. Helen Gurley Brown began whispering in their ears that an independent career path could be filled with exciting romances involving attractive men, free of the ‘drudgery’ to which marriage consigned their mothers. The family income was abolished in favor of ‘equal pay for equal work.’ The law was changed to permit women to divorce their husbands unilaterally and without grounds. (Wives are responsible for around ninety percent of divorces.)

None of this much affects the men at the top of the income and status hierarchy. They make enough money that even women with personal incomes perceive them as supporters and are willing to marry them. If a wife leaves after the baby is born, child support payments are manageable and a replacement wife is easily found.

The Fishtown girls who might have married working men in 1960 may well be earning more than such men today just by sitting at desks entering data. They can obtain higher quality sperm from more desirable men without submitting to the constraints of lifelong monogamy; the ‘ex’ and/or the taxpayer is made to provide for any resulting children. They even enjoy the sympathy of male commentators for the terrible hardship all this supposedly represents. Is it any wonder such women are reluctant to devote their lives to raising the children of ill-paid construction workers?

The contemporary Fishtown man, his wages reduced by female competition and the ever-decreasing market value of upper-body strength, has correspondingly slim chances of earning enough to make himself an acceptable suitor to any woman with an income of her own. These men are not ‘retreating from the marriage market’; they are being driven from it as a matter of deliberate policy.

Even if a particular working class man beats the odds and finds a girl to marry, he cannot expect the satisfaction of supporting her; she may well end up supporting him. And what self-respecting man wants to end up like that poor sap uselessly tagging along behind his wife who just bought all the groceries?

But this is still not the worst. Prospective husbands stand a good chance of losing everything in the divorce settlement within a few years of the wedding. Child support is not so easy when it must be paid through low-skilled labor. Even if you avoid being jailed as a ‘deadbeat dad,’ you will certainly not have enough left over to contemplate a second marriage.

In short, the American dream of a home and family through honest labor is now far out of reach for an increasing number of low-status men. Under these circumstances, what is such a man to do with his life? I’d say an unconstrained bachelor existence with plenty of time for amusements looks very much like a rational choice. The male commentariat may make you out to be a bum, but that sure beats years of performing all the hard work traditionally required to support a family and then not getting the family.

What Murray doesn’t understand, and Devlin suggests (although he doesn’t emphasize it strongly enough, I think), is that living according to the old virtues will, as often as not, result in punishment. What else could you call loss of one’s children and forced servitude to an adulterous wife? It’s about the most humiliating thing that a man can face, yet it is taken for granted in the US that this is how we should deal with those men who get married and have children.

It’s good to see that Devlin is still calling foul when women get a free pass from the likes of Murray. Although I respect Murray, and am sure he means well, like most of his generation he’s got a huge blind spot where women are concerned. You have to reach all the way back to the Greatest Generation before finding more than a meager handful of older men who have a realistic attitude concerning women, and they are mostly dead by now; if not they are typically in some stage of senility.

However, this is why I remain optimistic that things will change soon. The older boomers, who are set in their ways, are on the way out. This is probably Murray’s last great work, for example. The younger ones are not as fixed in their ways, and younger men, influenced by men like Heartiste, are going to have an entirely different attitude. Murray describes, but fails to understand their behavior, so perhaps his book may have some value as a portrait taken from a different place — from inside a bubble.

{ 100 comments… read them below or add one }

Budnick February 16, 2012 at 06:29

The older boomers, who are set in their ways,

Not just with regards to feminism. These fat, old armchair generals can’t wait to see Gingrich or Santorum send young men into another war in Iran.

Ron Paul will not win this year, but his views represent the future of conservatism.

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Epoche* February 16, 2012 at 06:36

I have begun to get a bit tired of Charles Murray as well, he is one of those intellectuals who has nothing to do with his time except pontificate about how others must live their lives – he is not in the trenches helping real people. In one of his lectures he talks about the blows to self-esteem that lower status men face when not being to support a family and now he wants us to feel sorry for single mothers. If you trust strangers to raise your kids more than the person you are sleeping with I dont have any compassion for your plight – there is always adoption. I like how the feminists reject family and Christianity and want us to treat others like family – apparently these people have never heard of Herbert Spencer.

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Tom February 16, 2012 at 06:53

Of 100 children born in the US, 50 are born to unmarried women (her choice), of the remaining 50, 25 will see their parents divorce, of those 25, 20 by wife’s choice. Total: statistically, 70 out of 75 fatherless children are so by the woman’s unilateral decision.

90% of single mothers are so BY CHOICE.

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Towgunner February 16, 2012 at 07:49

Because feminists and women are more compassionate than men and thus better suited to run the world as there would be no war etc (even though all we’ve seen is war in this new normal)…in their infinite wisdom they have also decreed that having a baby is a woman’s right. That being said, we see a multitude of system failures within feminism and if we could only come back to sanity as a society this and many other contradictions would cause an outright rejection of feminism. A woman’s right to a child is anything but compassionate as it centers entirely on the emotional and hormonal impulses of a woman, which is irrespective of the best interest of the future child. In other words, that biological clock or natural instinct to reproduce comes a-knockin and rather than be the wiser and stronger human women have proven to be entirely submissive to their impulses. They act the same way with shoe and hand bag sales too. As a result, we see droves of women making irrational decisions to have babies. In the end, the people who really suffer are the kids, who never had the choice of being created and born to a selfish pig mother. But, the needs of others matter not in this more advanced and caring civilization. After all, unlike the old patriarchical society, the kids can now fully express every homosexual or perverted sexual impulse that they want. Utopia at last.

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stonelifter February 16, 2012 at 07:53

The book just arrived in the mail. I have not read it yet, but it is my understanding that Murray champions the working class White man.

Guess I’ll know for sure in the next few weeks.

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J February 16, 2012 at 08:14

You know what sucks, is that murray’s book is what those younger, in their twentysomethings, will be reading in high school and college. It is, and others work like it, are what will be used totry and brainwash our sons and daughters in their lifetime. Devlins work will be pushed into a corner somewhere, if not ignored altogether. Onlly those with the intuition to see somethings wrong will likely look.

Feminism has declared war on so many of us before we were born, most of us (anyone male) are starting to recognize. Im not sure what the future holds, I hope we don’t turn into the whiny mess that feminists have become. Otherwise, we will repeat their failure of society, and be no better.

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Lyn87 February 16, 2012 at 08:24

If single mothers couldn’t gyrate around poles there would be a bounty on them.

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Reneekelly February 16, 2012 at 08:28

I don’t think it is necessarily true that Fr Devlin doesn’t know the truth about single mothers–it is more that he knows he can say nothing. Ann Coulter is the only social conservative who will continually make the kinds of statements about single moms made here. She can do that because she is a woman. Any conservative man making that claim will be shamed and no one will listen to anything he says. He may have decided to try to attack feminism in a way that he can get people to listen knowing that once you get people listening you can get people to accept other truths about feminism.

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Reneekelly February 16, 2012 at 08:32

I meant to say “Murray doesn’t know the truth about single mothers” not “Fr Devlin doesn’t know the truth”

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MRAish February 16, 2012 at 08:39

Devlin is one of us, trust me – yes, I know him a bit IRL – and we need to support him whole-hog. God bless him. And screw Murray, who has long outlived his usefulness. And God bless DARPA for getting this interwebz thing going 40 years ago – where would men today be without it?

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Ryu February 16, 2012 at 08:41

There’s alot one could write about conservatives.

You will find that they are completely useless, good only for talk. There is nothing “conservative” about advocating for men; it is one of the most extreme positions one could take today. There are one or two positions more extreme than the MRM today.

It’s the traitors than need to be identified. You need to purge the MRM of all the weaklings and talkers. Make them choose – you or your enemies 100%. Quantity is not quality. Every movement is about one group of active elites vs another. Most people are not, nor will they ever be leaders.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 32 Thumb down 39
Rocco February 16, 2012 at 08:41

@ Tom

Excellent use of every day math to look at these political issues. If we all did that we could see that if 1/4 women had been raped at christmas 3 of our old Aunties, married as virgins 3 gen’s ago btw, were mauled and raped.

The only thing I will add is that you didn’t measure single motherhood. None of these women were single mothers.

These women knew the fathers and fully expected him to have an obligation to pay her a tax exempt wage to her to raise his child enforced by the penalty of 1 year in jail.

No these are women with a man bonded to here to pay her an amount of money not in relation to his ability to pay and specifically not reducable if his income falls.

These women have jobs.

And why shouldn’t they go out and party.

In the early 1980′s the single motherhood rate among black women was 30% and is now 80%. Back then, as part of my school work, I worked with pregnant teen girls. I had alot of time to talk to them and they so I asked some questions.

They all said the pregnancy was planned…..all. They were 14-16.

I asked them all, and it was private, no one showed up at delivery, not mom, not boyfriend. I asked them why they did it and didn’t it limit their future.

The all said the same thing. It made them a woman in their community. I assume that means income. At the time it was a welfare check from big daddy gov but for middle class white girls/women it’s a big daddy gov guarenting a check from some shlub.

So 30 years ago the single mother hood rate was rare. 10 years ago 30% now 50% in the white community and headed up.

But you are correct, at best 1/4 men will know their children growing up today and in this statistic is going up fast.

The solution to the Swedish problem was swift and ruthlessly applied by the daughters of the AngloSaxon Vickings.

I’m moving where nice people live.

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MRAish February 16, 2012 at 09:16

Ryu: If you think Devlin is a “conservative” then you are really out of it.

And excuse me – “traitor” and “purge”? I’m a WN, so is Devlin, but that sort of language, with its Stalinist tone, indicates you are either a mouth-breather or an FBI provocateur.

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asdf February 16, 2012 at 09:26

How do we know Murray doesn’t chastise women?

He took race out of what essentially amounts to “The Bell Curve II” because of the distraction. He certainly doesn’t want to take on feminism, that’s another derailment. Let’s examine his three big goals.

1) Use data to show blank slaters are wrong: IQ matters and its heritable.

2) Our society has not come up with a system to provide happy and meaningful lives to the left half of the curve.

3) Our elites need to abandon victimism in order to address the problem.

4) I have a feeling what he is advocating is something like Mormonism.

5) A guaranteed minimum income is a better idea then current welfare programs.

He largely succeeds.

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keyster February 16, 2012 at 09:34

They seem to compartmentalize feminism and manhood, as if one has nothing to do with the other. They understand that men and women are competing for the same job, but yet they want men to ignore it or rise above it. Now that women are “manning-up”, they expect men to “man-up” above that–yet there’s no where else to “man” to.

If woman is the new working class beta male, where does that leave the man? Destroy the nuclear family, destroy the middle class. Destroy the middle class, destroy the society. Destroy society and a socialist order will step in to fill the vacuum. That’s the master plan and we’re living it right now. Who needs a male protector and provider when you have Daddy Government?

When you combine the “equality” of leftist/feminism with the chivalrous favoritism of the white-knight SoCon, you have a cocktail for social disastor; abolishment of the midde-class. No one listens to the warnings of the MRM…how this is affecting men…that men matter. Yet the cloistered indocrinated academicians remain vexed. Don’t even ask, “What about how men feel?”–or you will be shut down.

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Rocco February 16, 2012 at 09:45

No Keyster, you get happy males free from responsibility and with humble needs and while not minding work, not minding working hard.

You have MGTOW.

Or Buddha, or Jesus or any of the myriad of men history has shown us to emulate but our mothers told us we had to be good beta boys.

Let’s us be stay at home dads, writers, artists, the kind that flourished one hundred years before men were imprisoned by feminism 100 years ago.

Or like Russians and our own women, drink and screw.

And fight for you country? Which one? The one you live in? Buy you oil from? Holds your mortgage? Runs your computer, cell phone?

It’s a world economy and I’m glad women want to serve on the front lines to protect THEIR country.

Which is, of course a lie, if you look at fatality and wound rates, women don’t even make a dent.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 10:48

Younger men, on the other hand, seem to understand it intuitively. Men under 30 are far more clued in than I was at their age, and it hasn’t even been a decade since then.

Thanks for mentioning us younger guys. As a under 30 millenial, I will tell you exactly why most of us have this outlook.

We are the divorce generation. Even if we grew up in families that weren’t divorced we were still latch key kids.

Not only did I, a little over a decade ago, have more friends with single mothers by choice but also with divorced parents than intact families I also went to school with girls and came of age during the grrl power of the 90s.

This idea of women as victims falls on deaf ears when you spend year after year dealing with fucking cunts.

Team vagina can tell me all day long about how women would never lie about birth control or use men for child support and so on.

But, I know better. The high school I went to, a little over a decade ago, had a Teen Mom(watch that show on MTV if you want a realistic look) or two in almost every single class I had.

I literally only had one class in high school that didn’t have a pregnant girl in it. Several had two or three, out of 30 or 35 students and not enough book. Gotta love shitty high schools in the south.

That is just high school. If you look at reddit and the mens rights section in particular you will see that most of the guy are about my age(maybe a few years older) or younger.

Even the guys that aren’t in the MRA section on reddit have a very warped view of women and relationships. I think this is due to being born in the divorce generation.

Who needs to burn their own hand to find out that fire is hot when you can watch dozens upon dozens of older men burn their hands and scream in pain? Who needs that, so to speak?

This doesn’t even begin to talk about growing up in a feminized education system or the entitlement issues run rampant that most young women have or all the other issues.

To put it simply: You can’t kick a dog and not expect it to eventually bite the hand that feeds.

Guys of my generation have been kicked since we were puppies, and we were kicked constantly and from everyone who supposedly loved and cared for us.

There is a groundswell of MRAism and misogyny and just a lot of pissed off guys for one reason or another.

I haven’t, for example, met a single guy in his 20s who hasn’t had alteast one or more psycho bitch crazy ex gfs.

There is a reason that guys on reddit have a saying that goes like this: “dont stick your dick in crazy.”

There is also a reason that feminists have gotten so angry over young men and what young men say that they have created a very hostile troll group on reddit called Shit Reddit Says, or SRS. This SRS group exists to do nothing more than attack MRAs and other young men and mock them.

I suggest you don’t spend too much time looking at their shit, but if you haven’t heard about them before then I do suggest you head to reddit and search for them and take a look at their subreddits. They are a perfect example of the crazy cunts that guys like me have had to deal with growing up. They have no argument or abilit to even discuss topics, they simply mock and jeer.

As far as this article goes, I agree. Not only that but the MRM is making headway as far as getting out message out.

This article is full of female projection and female hope but it also uses the term hypergamy, which I first read about in Devlins work and the MRM.

Marriage Suits Educated Women:

THe comments are interesting to say the least. All sorts of older single women complaining about how the article isn’t true, cause men are afraid of educated women(lol). I suggest you all check it out.

The simple truth is that I, and I suspect most guys (especially of my generation), simply get tired of the constant competiveness and bitchy demeanor of western women. Especially the hyper educated (with liberal arts masters) who want to rub it into our faces constantly.

Unlike men of older generations I have had more girlfriends than most older guys had in their entire lives before I turned 21. I can honestly say that women do not add any value, outside of the value of pussy and sex, to a mans life.

Even with great sex it gets fucken old, it wears you down and makes you tired, having to constantly deal with the power struggles in modern relationships.

I haven’t even lived with a girl and I am sick of it. After I got out of my longest LTR a few years back, it only lasted about 3 yrs, I was just drained. It felt like my soul had been sucked out or something.

Women aren’t companions these days. They are ruthless competitors at work, at school, and even in our relationships.

Why would I or any other guy, especially us younger guys who learned this the hard way, give one fuckin shit about women?

In the last three weeks I have had three times where a group of young women, college girls from the University down the stree, asked me for help while I was driving. Each time I told them to fuck off.

One of those times was last night. I was at a drive through and it was cold and raining out. This hot blonde chick tapped on my window and asked me if I would give her and her friends a ride down the street so they wouldn’t have to walk home in the cold rain. I told them to fuck off. I am not a limo or taxi service. They could have offered to give me a group blowjob and the most that would have happened would have been me jizzing on their face and then riding off. TBH, I wouldn’t have even done that. Last thing I want to deal with is a false rape claim.

Women have pissed away any good will guys my age used to have towards them. If you don’t believe me then simply look at markets and see what sells to young men and see how young men view women.

Go and look at online forums based around video games and you will see young men talking shit about girls their age. Hell, get on some feminist sites and you will see feminists complaining about young guys, teenage guys, talking constant shit about women. Look at reddit and you will see it too. Look at any male oriented areas and you will see it.

Look at rap music or the proliferation of the word gold digger. Women are worthless these days, especially after or before sex. I think they are realizing it too. There is no happy ever after. There is no ’till death do us part’, cause we all know that women are branch swingers or monkeys. They won’t let go of one branch until their hands are firmly planted on another branch.

Oh and Branch = cock. Females tend to call it serial monogamy.

Fuck that shit. They won’t love you. They will just treat you as a utility object. A fucking ATM or sperm donor or human shield or emotional tampon/shrink or a dildo or a rock to lean on and so on.

My point is this. What do women have any more??? Pussy is cheaper to come by, especially if you know some game, than candy on halloween. They can’t cook or clean worth shit. They are honest. They aren’t equal to any degree, especially 99% of them.

What do women have to offer besides a funhole to play with for 45 minutes? They suck as friends, shit they give their own friends eating disorders and call them frenemies.

WTF do women have to offer? I think it is very little and I think young men are figureing this out every day.

I think women are realizing that their gravy train is coming off the tracks and are scared shitless. I think many, if not most, young men wouldn’t allow a woman to go back to the kitchen and be barefoot even if the women begged for them to be allowed to be kept. I think women know this and I think that is why they are getting even more bitchy.

I think this will only backfire for women as a whole and I am looking forward to seeing it all fall apart. This comment is long enough, so I will just say nice article.

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PeterTheGreat February 16, 2012 at 10:58

“The only thing I will add is that you didn’t measure single motherhood. None of these women were single mothers”

Don’t believe it. Where do you think all the orphans came from. Girls back then gave up their kids to an orphanage if they were unwed.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 11:05


If woman is the new working class beta male, where does that leave the man? Destroy the nuclear family, destroy the middle class. Destroy the middle class, destroy the society. Destroy society and a socialist order will step in to fill the vacuum. That’s the master plan and we’re living it right now. Who needs a male protector and provider when you have Daddy Government?


The Master Plan????

I am curious. I don’t mean this as a direct question, just a somewhat of rhetorical one.

How many of you really think this is a master plan?

I come across statements in the MRM from time to time that talks about some sort of conspiracy or master plan directed by the Powers That Be (PTB) and this just doesn’t make sense to me.

I don’t think there is any sort of group that is controlling this emergent social structure.

I think, instead, that it is due to unrestrained female behavior.

Women will always, in aggregate, seek to sort men into pliant and controllable groups while propping up more aggressive males to rule over the betas.

Whether women do this in smaller microcosms, like high schools or social cliques in college or the work place, or in larger social systems like the government and the economic and political and legal markets in general makes little difference.

It seems to me that this is simply the behavior of women in aggregate, of women as a class.

Get one hundred women together without any real social or cultural control mechanisms on their behavior and put them around 100 guys who still have social control mechanisms and what will happen?

The women will sort the men based on dozens or more criteria. They will rank and sort them based on looks, height, swagger, and so on. They will sort, and even worse they will passively attempt to trigger various behaviors in the men, men into alphas and betas and gammas and omegas and so on.

Anyways. I am not convinced that any of this is a concious exercise. I think it is mostly, if not all, a result from removing the social constraints from women. I really doubt that the men or women in charge, well maybe the women, had any idea what would actually happen.

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Matt Strictland February 16, 2012 at 11:14

Murray would be the first to admit he has a thick bubble.

I do have to agree that he is out of touch as are a great many Boomers. When they are gone from the political sphere, things may get better.

As to MRAish’s complaint about Ryu, there are a lot of people in that movement with strong authoritarian leanings who feel that being a WN means you need leaders and followers and that dissent is a bad idea. It doesn’t mean actual violence or advocation of Stalinist ideas (most times anyway)

From reading his work I suspect Ryu is one of those.

IMO, the Totalitarianism Lite is a terrible idea. The problem is that the two other strains Non Violent Lone Wolf and Consensus Style are subtle and while they can be slowly effective and not at all pleasing for the will to power crowd or the angry.

My personal take is general idea of Whites Help Whites and Whites Go Their Own Way (WGTOW?) gradually leading to a restoration of White only nations is the best approach. Its quiet and a revolution of No! is very hard to stop as it weakens the money the others depend on and allows Whites to come from a stronger POV,

Hate and anger can have utilitybut the combative approach (either verbal or physical, legal or not) advocated by some is a bad idea. Even when they are strong and WN’s aren’t there yet battle doesn’t enrich the people or make them even stronger, it impoverishes them and bleeds them dry. Had there been no WW1 and WW2 Europe would be in much better shape as would the US.

However thats a bit drifty …

More on topic, things are going to get interesting as we enter the 21st century. What we have to do is prevent the industrial age legacy morons and the braindead multi-cult zombies from trying to keep their system alive by totalitarian means . Power transfers in the US need to be sped up so that groups won’t dominate for so long. This might even have the salutary effect of getting the entrenched people to think about policy a little clear since they’ll soon be under their replacements.

However this would require some big changes, a lot of objectivity and a flat out political war vs the old. We need to bring back mandatory retirement for example.

Otherwise we’ll wait them out and that a lot of damage in the mean time.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 12
Rocco February 16, 2012 at 11:14

@ Peter

I’m talking about today’s “single mothers”. I can’t write very well.

I’m saying that today, women aren’t single mothers but more like child minders with an attached indentured servant, her ex to get money from, babysitting, and to use as an emotional whipping boy.

There needs to be a different definition for this, it’s not the same as single motherhood when I was a kid and a single mother was truely on her own.

No, today a single mother is better off than a married mother and that’s why the heard is making single babies…..they’re not too bright, but they’re not too stupid either.

@ Trollking

Here here, well said, older men have no idea the monsters young women are today and the kind of children they will soon be handing society over too.

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piercedhead February 16, 2012 at 11:14

A new study suggests that boys are doing badly in school because female teachers are giving them lower marks – lower than what they would give if they didn’t know the sex of the student they were marking:


Perhaps even more remarkable than the result is the fact that the MSM has covered this at all.

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Rebel February 16, 2012 at 11:21

@Troll King :

This is almost news to me. I wasn’t completely aware that young men were so thoroughly disgusted. But it does make a lot of sense, though.

The children of divorce wear the stigmas.
From this, there can only be one conclusion: women are already deep in shit and their situation will get worse.
That will not make them change for the better, though. They will get worse and worse. Just like a snake biting its own end.

It is true, then, that what goes around comes around…

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Rocco February 16, 2012 at 11:34

@ Rebel

I was almost written up for sexual harrasment by a student of mine who was raised in divorce with a feminist mom who objected to my opinion that children do better, all other things being equal, if they have two parents.

She threatened by never wrote me up.

That is how much they hate the idea of family and relationships, that’s the depth of the sex war they were brainwashed with during the last 20 years.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 11:56


Man, I got into a bit of a masochistic mood the other day. I was sitting around my condo getting drunk and was bored and turned on the TV and flipped through channels. I somehow ended up watching three back to back episodes of the Kardashians and then watched about five episodes of Teen Mom 2, the second season I think, and god fucking damn.

The constant high pitched shrieking of the Kardashian family, not only the somewhat hot Kim or Courtney (not that fat ass one, the fair skinned older one…fuck is her name, anyways) but also their younger sisters who are in High School. Damn.

I really feel sorry for the father, Bruce or whatever his name is, and how he is basically the househusband. On one episode they were all saying that he has hearing problems and is going deaf. He kept insisting that he wasn’t but he finally, after being screeched at by all the women, inclding his wife, went to the doctor to get his hearing tested.

It was kinda funny. He talked to this male doctor and had his hearing tested and it turned out that his hearing if fine. The doctor asked him about his home life and he said a few words about raising girls and the doctor laughed and said that it was completely normal for a man of his age to occasionally not hear what his wife and teen and young adult daughters said. The doctor even wrote hima note saying his hearing is fine and that if anything he needs a little time off, to play golf or something like that.

This guy was basically just ignoring the fuck out of his entitled women who screech at him constantly.

That wasn’t too bad to watch but god damn. This may be a reality TV show but women emulate this shit like crazy.

Your average chick, especially in her teens and 20s, and even older, aspires to be famous for being famous. If a reality tv bitch tells girls to buy this or that because it is “in” this season then they all go out and buy whatever.

Unfortunately this is the better half of the female herd. If you want to see what women were like when I was growing up in the late 90s then go and watch Teen Mom and Teen Mom 2.

I watched about four or five episodes of that the other day and I had flashbacks to High school. I knew girls who acted just like that. I had female friends who acted just like that. Hell, even in college and after I knew girls who had one or two kids and got scholarships for school while her babydaddy was working three jobs to pay child support and not go to prison.

This one Teen mom, Janeel or something, reminded me of a girl I knew in HS to a T. On the show she is freaking out and doing drugs and constantly screaming at her single mother by choice mom. She starts fights with her babydaddy and even gets him put in jail over domestic violence, that she started but he did go too far, and she just acts like a crazy bitch.

She even looks like this girl I knew named jenny. I saw this girl, like skinned and dark hair and skinny and slightly goth or emo (back then no one said emo), jenny literally pick up a brick and slam it into another girls head. She put the girl into a coma and bragged about it.

I knew plenty of guys, I was a delinquent and I went to jail not prom at 17, who were violent and in the drug scene but none of them were anywhere near as bad as some of the women. The girls were just fucking insane.

I actually dated this one girl in 9th grade, she was cute and had braces and was easy on the eyes and in the sack, who later, by 12 grade, declared that she was going to be a trophy wife. About six months after I dropped out of High School and she had graduated I heard she was dating a guy in his thirties who was a IT worker. Apparently they got married about a year later and she had a kid with him. I only heard about this cause she was friends with my gf at the time and apparently about a year later she divorced him and got alimony and CS and this wansn’t on accident. She had planned it all since her junior year in HS. I have no idea where she is today, and if I saw her or my ex who was friends with her I would run the other way like my life depended on it, but she is the type of girl I went to school with and came of age around.

The type that used to sing that song that was popular in the 90s……by Meredith Brooks or something like that…..Lyrics: I’m a Bitch, I’m a lover, I’m a mother…somthing something…..I’m a bitch…blah blah blah.

I knew so many girls like that. I fucked and hooked up with and dated so many girls. They all had daddy issues. Most hadn’t ever been raised in the same house with their daddy. Most called their moms various boyfriends daddy and then would put their head on my shoulder or in my arm pit and on my chest and cry and cry and cry about how they didn’t know about their daddy. Some would talk about how their mom told them their dad didn’t pay child support but would later tell me how they were looking for a school form and found CS receipts from their dad. Many had stories, that at the time I didn’t know the name for, that were basically systemic parental alienation on the mothers behalf.

I used to feel sorry for those girls. I probably should. But I am not a parent. I would never be stupid enough, no offense guys, to have children in America whether I was married or not. I saw guys at 16 drop out of HS to get jobs to pay CS and I have worked blue collar jobs and at every job, and all the men my age and older or younger have had this same exact experience, I worked I worked with dozens and dozens of guys who had babymommas or guys who were divorced.

I was lucky to sit in the break room during lunch and not have to listent to some guy talk shit about the family court three or four days a week. Literally, having one or two days in a row where I took break or lunch and didn’t have to listen to story after story of family court this or divorce that or alimony this was rare. It wasn’t just the guys either.

I heard plenty of stories from the girls too. I even knew, and went to school with, their former lovers and husbands. These cunts some how thought I would or should feel sorry for them after hearing their stories but they didn’t seem to understand that most guys take more into consideration than what you said five minutes ago. Most guys look at the character of a person and when you treat everyone at work like shit and then complain about your crappy boyfriend and babydaddy in the break room as if you are a victim…..then, well….I don’t give a fuck.

Same goes for all the girls with daddy issues. When I was 18 or 19 I felt sorry for these girls and I often thought that the guys complaining about family court were full of shit. Now a decade later, I don’t feel sorry for a single mother or a girl with daddy issues. Girls with daddy issues actually drop their panties liike parents giving out candy on halloween….they are easy lays, when I want to get laid. They are also the majority.

Anyways. I suggest you all watch atleast four or five episodes of Teen Mom 2. Each one of those bitches is a cheater. Each one is a entitled cunt. And although it is a reality TV program, and due to that some may be hyped up, it is a surreal portrait of what average young women are like. Not all of them are like that, most that I went to at my poor and shitty southern HS WERE like that, but not all are like that.

Living right off of a college campuse, and taking classes and working towards degrees and partying with many types of people, I have learned that not all girl are like that.

Some are worse. Many actually act like the cunts on Jersey Shore.

Then some are even worse. They are called young, white, upper-middle class hipster feminists….goddamn, those bitches are the worst.

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Charles Martel February 16, 2012 at 12:01

Here here, well said, older men have no idea the monsters young women are today and the kind of children they will soon be handing society over too.

The UK leads the way. The scandal of Britain’s lazy “parents”. Five year olds that aren’t toilet trained , can’t dress themselves, have never opened a book and don’t know their own last name!

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Seamus the Classicist February 16, 2012 at 12:06

I will agree with Troll King’s assement of the men of the Millenial generation. We have seen a lot going through high school, but especially college. We have seen women engaging in hypergamy and relastionship games without them even keeping up the pretense of “Romance.”

It could be put down to the bitterness and schadenfruede of the “famous dateless losers.” But then we ask, “why are we dateless?” Because we can’t compete with the vapid game of the player, okay but what does that say about women? Because we cannot compete with the empowered career female to satisfy her hypergamous needs, okay but doesn’t that then mean love and romance are hyporcitical games and thus make woman a liar?

Back in college my one buddy was really into a band, Reel Big Fish, and we were driving aroudn once musing when he put on a song of their’s in whcih the story is about a girl who snubbed the band leader when he was starting out, but since he has been successful has returned to seek his attention. So my friends turns to me and says, “fuck these bitches, they go to college and slut it up, then expect to find a nice guy who makes money after he gets a career. Who wants a used up whore?” Remember this was the mid 00′s so we thought success would be ours, if not for the mancession.

The problem from the female perspective is their narrow focus, there are still little bitch men who will put all there energy into a relationship just to have pussy validation. So when these females have their girlfriend with a dick, they make sure their social circle consists of other attatched females. Even other females who are not at the same standing as them do not exist in the her world. These are also the type of men who are so debased as to have no self-respect, virtue, or honor.

An example, a buddy of mine had this female friend from high school who was the biggest slut you could know, if she went out drinking she was out fucking. He has a fuck buddy relationship with her, and she starts dating some new guy, some bouncer who is a shy mangina. One night they are out drinking, bouncer boy goes in the back to lay down, and my buddy starts banging her on the couch, bouncer boy comes out afterwards to see them naked on the couch. Now this guy is such a mangina that he can’t accept what just happened and buys the excuse that it was just drunken making out.

This was about two years ago, mangina bouncer is still with the slut. I guess he is the loser who will marry her.

However the inbalance will still get to them as there are still large numbers of unattached females (because guys like Troll King, at least six of my buddies, and me are not taking them on) who will compete with the attatched female for her man. Women have no inate sense of right and wrong, so there is no level they won’t sink to, us Millenial guys noted this when younger when we learned “the best way to attract girls is to have one already.”

I have one friend who was a little weenie science dude back in college, only got ass once when some born again virgin girl in his Bible study group tunred into a cock-snatching harpy on him, needless to say when the group found out she became the victim and he the evil leacher. He had another relationship with a psycho woman who ultimately rejected him because he didn’t measure up to her previous soccer playing boyfriend. So now he has bulked up, gotten into adventure sports, and is getting a masters in engineering, and rutting through the university girls.

We can see that our inate value as a person for reasons of love, does not matter except for maybe a pump and dump. So why emotionally invest in some joke, we are not women who change with the wind. A romantic blow to our psyche’s are not solved by wine parties and shaking our asses in public.

My generations of fellows are at heart nihilistic, vicious, and with very little pretense of conscience. This is because we are informed by a type of moral philosophy, brought on by the moral degeneracy in family, society, law, and relationships. We implicitly understand social contract as it applies to relationships.

They can fight back with all the laws and shaming they want, but we are men and we will adapt and survive. Let us maintain the imbalance and drive it to a fever pitch.

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Anonymous February 16, 2012 at 12:10

@piercedhead: “A new study suggests that boys are doing badly in school because female teachers are giving them lower marks”

This is quite common in law schools, as exams, while anonymous, are often written longhand and it’s pretty easy to differentiate which blue books were written by male students and which by females.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 12:17


Really? I don’t know how old you are, but I can promise you that guys under 30 are fed up with women. We had to grow up next to the most entitled and bitchy group of females that ever walked this planet.

Just look at popular culture. Whether its rap music or rock music or TV or movies.

Just compare film from 50 years ago to film today. Or music.

Were there concepts back in the day similiar to gold diggers? Were men writing music about how horrible and slutty women were? I know there are some types of music that are fairly old that deal with those issues….namely some blues and jazz and country. But even that stuff doesn’t hold a candle to what you might hear on the radio today.

Just the other day I heard a song on the radio, it is called The Bitch Came Back. Part of its chorus talks about how all girls are the same and how they are basically shit.

Have a listen:

Theory of a Deadman: Bitch Came Back


The bitch came back the very next day

Oh the bitch came back thought she was a goner

But the bitch came back she couldn’t stay away

Don’t you know the bitch came back

I like her so much better when she’s down on her knees

Cause when she’s in my face that’s when I’m starting to see

That all my friends are laughing thinking that we belong

Well she’s so fucking stupid that shes singing along

The trouble with girls is they’re all the same

Forget the diamonds and pearls they just want a ring

Before you know it you’re like a dog on a leash

Well you can try and change the world but you won’t change me

The bitch came back the very next day

Oh the bitch came back thought she was a goner

But the bitch came back she couldn’t stay away

Don’t you know the bitch came back

There she goes again just always breaking my balls

No matter what I do somehow its always my fault

She says I must be cheating cause I turned off my phone

But that’s the only frickin way she’ll leave me alone

The trouble with girls is its never enough

Love to complain and they never shut up

Like to tell you the way it ought to be

[ From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/bitch-came-back-lyrics-theory-of-a-dead-man.html ]

Go on and tell the world just don’t tell me

The bitch came back the very next day

Oh the bitch came back thought she was a goner

But the bitch came back she couldn’t stay away

Don’t you know the bitch came back

It ain’t a joke when I say I wanna throw you out
(I really mean it) (I really mean it)

Well look who’s laughing now

The bitch came, the bitch came back

The bitch came, the bitch came back

the bitch came, the bitch came back

She just couldn’t stay away

The bitch came back the very next day

Oh the bitch came back thought she was a goner

But the bitch came back she won’t stay the fuck away

The bitch came back the very next day

Oh the bitch came back thought she was a goner

But the bitch came back she couldn’t stay away

Don’t you know the bitch came back

The bitch came back the very next day

Oh the bitch came back thought she was a goner

But the bitch came back she couldn’t stay away

Don’t you know the bitch came back

This song is on the radio every day. Its not on Primetime or latenight radio or some obscure station either, it is on one of the most popular rock stations in the south east and it is playing from morning to night.

I think the lyrics are damn near shakespearian…lol.

I know I am using popular media to try to prove a point, but whether it is songs or tv or the fact that guys, rangin from teens to early 30s, on reddit who talk about being forever alone or women as crazy bitches…..

Well, I think women have basically used up almost all good will men used to have towards them as a group.

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 12:32

Male, 26.

I agree 100% with what Troll King has said. This mirrors my experiences (in AUS). More than half my friends in school didn’t have fathers, and although it wasn’t quite as bad as 1-2 per class, there were several girls I knew who were pregnant before 15. Some of them even knew who the father was… occasionally. Heck, one of my female friends had three children by the time she was 16, and all to different fathers.

Whatever good will I had for women ended in high school. I’ve had a few GFs since then, hoping I’d find one that wasn’t crazy, but they all are. NAWALT? Fucking yes they are.

My folks don’t help either. I tried to talk to them about it when I noticed it towards the end of high school (age 15-17). Dad could see the problem but still (even now) believes that the women who do this are in the minority. mum just refuses to see a problem and says I’m being silly. Her favourite word is misogyny. I have no idea how they’ve managed to stay married for almost 30 years.

Women are emotional vampires. They don’t bring anything of value to a relationship (I’m a qualified Chef, so I don’t need a cook. Washing machines are literally 2 button pushes) except for sex, and quite frankly, I don’t have to hug my Fleshlite afterwards. I also don’t have to worry about it lying to me about contraception. Also the sex is better!

No, women don’t have any social currency left. Girls are stupid, throw rocks at them.

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keyster February 16, 2012 at 12:41

“The Master Plan????
I am curious. I don’t mean this as a direct question, just a somewhat of rhetorical one.
How many of you really think this is a master plan?”

2nd wave feminism has it’s roots in cultural Marxism, an egalitarian/socialist utopia where women are no longer dependent on individual men, but rather the State (for employment, education,
healthcare, childcare, housing, etc). This movement began in earnest in the 60′s on college campuses and the mass media in the 70′s. The strategy was to foster enmity between men and women by convincing women they were victims of men, while making men feel guilty for it. Eventually this would lead to disenfranchisment of men from society and breakdown of the male led household, otherwise know as “patriarchy”. The State will then step in to fill the void with “safety nets”, to which we all become addicted to.

The “Traditionalist” clings to Biblical gender roles of individual man as chivalric and galant protector/provider and woman as pedestalized wife and exalted mother figure. Sacrifice is expected of him. She likes traditionalism, because it favors her.

This provides average woman with an al carte of choices to suit every occasion or circumstance. While men are left confused and angry about where it is exactly they fit in. Individual man is the biggest threat to State control. He must be silenced and marginalized into compliance.

The MRA stands between both cultural dynamics. He wants equality as long as it’s not “more equal than others”, but yet rejects husbandry and fatherhood, because that was a traditional ruse all along. Feminism only served to expose the “deal” for what it was.

So you can be a serviant compliant master to the woman as your co-partner/equal…like the Good Men Project. Or you can succumb to the shame offered up by the SoCon elite and “Man up”. Neither one is a very good deal when you think about it.

You will NEVER find a woman that rejects Feminism wholesale, ever. There is something in it for each and every one of them. These days its hard to even find a man that rejects it, especially if he has daughters. This is regardless of political bent.

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Rocco February 16, 2012 at 12:49

@ Keyster

I agree. I was listening to Heroldo Rivera talking about Whitney Houstson’s unfortunate death and he virulently blamed Bobby Brown.

A middle aged sounding female called in and told him, no she took the drugs, she sought out that sort of company she is responsible for her drug problems.

His head was going to explode, but he had to admit that Whitney had to at least share in the blame after a wimmenz told him off.

The very next call was a guy who said he had “cousing” in law enforcement. He went on to say that Heraldo was right and women never are addicts, they are victims of horrible men and after doing one line of drugs become helpless addicts in thrall to these men.

This is the story the law enforcement wants to sell, women are victims needing the assistance of a large number of boys in Blue.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 12:49

I know I have been using popular media to try and prove some points in my posts and I recognize that may have flaws but I want to point out one more thing before I have to get off of here for a few hours.

I have a theory that goes like this:

Popular media, even the more fringe elements of it, lags behind what is happening on the ground by about 15 years or so.

We could look at basically any type of music and see that it had a following on the street or the club for close to a decade before it became recognized by the media and even after that it took another five or ten years for it to really make a name of its own. One example would be rap music. It was popular in many circles through the early 80s but didnt hit mainstream until the 90s.

I have never been a fan of rap, but to my knowledge that is the truth of it. We can also look at things like grundge or punk or even older rock and roll and you will see that it was popular among various groups years before it was recognized by the mainstream media.

Now, I think this goes beyond music. I think this is a truism or law in basically every type of popular media. Whether it is a type of writing or simply a subject matter or a song or type of TV show or whatever.

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw one episode of this new cartoon on FX called Unsupervised.

This cartoon is about a couple of teen boys who grow up Unsupervised and while I have only seen about 90% of one episode, I need to watch it, I find it fascinating for several reasons.

Reason one is that when I was a kid MTV would only air cartoons like Beavis and Butthead at 3 or 4 in the morning. I remember being in elementary school and having a sleep over with a few friends, hell even in middle school for that matter, and staying up till 4am while sitting in the den and watching and laughing at Beavis and Butthead.

Today we have FX airing a show where the tagline on the commercial is about how there aren’t any parents at this kids house and you can drink or smoke or eat as much as you want over at his house cause it is Unsupervised.

Think about that for a moment. This cartoon is about teen boys doing delinquent stuff and there is no role model or parent around to stop them. During the Clinton administration Tipper Gore would have been shitting a brick and trying to get new content advisory codes passed to help restrict the viewing audiences of this show to guys over 50.


Reason number two, and this is the biggest one, that I find this fascinating is because it mirrors my upbringing so much.

There are many different sayings about men and many different truisms, but one is very accurate for my generation.

As boys we were fans, as adults we are consumers. Whether it is comic books turned into blockbuster movies or cartoons that I watched on saturday mornings turned into blockbusters, us younger guys are not marrying and we are not having kids and as a result we have more disposable income, even though 1 in 5 of us guys in our 20s are unemployed, that we are able to spend on things we want to spend it on.

Those things happen to be media to a large degree. Marketers have realized that the largest growing, well second largest compared to retiring baby boomers, demographic with disposable income is the under 35 white single male population.

We buy more videogames, we buy movie tickets to movies based on cartoons we grew up with, we buy collectibles, we are fanboys and manchildren and so on.

I think Unsupervised is interesting because that is largely how I grew up.

I literally knew many people in middle and high school who had houses that either didn’t have a parent around hardly at all or their mom sold weed and would smoke us out and let us hang out and do drugs and chill and have sex and so on.

Hell, one of the first times I tripped acid as a teen was with a female friend of mine and her mother, who was a nurse and a single mom by choice, and I tripped with a dozen friends and her mom. Her mom rolled us some joints to help us calm down after the trip.

In HS I hung out at drug houses that were owned by single mothers by choice who were never there becauses they were always away with their newest boyfriend. I remember one such house. I would walk into one room and there was oxy and ritalin and other types of pain killers crushed up into piles of on the tables. That room was the pill room. I would walk into the next room and there would be five types of weed being packed into bowls and rolled up into blunts. That was the bud room.

Another room would have opium. Another would have acid. Another would have booze. Another was for hooking up, and the living room was for sobering up.

It didn’t matter if it was 10 am and you were skipping school or if it was 4 am. The most that would happen was the mother would come home every couple of days and pass out on the couch with her boyfriend. The most would happen is that she would drink and drug with us.

The best that happened was that she came home with a female friend of her, a woman in her late 20s or maybe early 30s, that was a stripper and she gave us all a show.

The worst that happened was that I ended up in rehab at 18 after being arrested at 17 for possession. The best that happened was that after the female judge screamed at me and told me that if she ever saw me again she would make sure that bubba had a good time with me up at the state prison after she threw away the key to the cell….the best that happened was that I got my shit together and stopped hanging around with all the guys I knew who were also on probation by the time they were 18.

Some of those guys are serving hard time today. Some are dead. Some I have no idea what happened to them. Most I don’t give a fuck about anymore and I sure as fuck don’ care about the skanks.

I mainly think that it is fascinating that a mainstream tv network has realized that this is common enough that they are willing to do a comedy based on it. They must know that the demographics of their audience will relate and would rather see a humorous take down memory lane to their HS years than a depressing one.

There is a reason that the brady bunch tackled integrated families without being depressing. In real life all the people I have known with several step parents have basically, if not outright, disowned their own families. On tv it has a laugh track. In real life its friends of mine telling me that they will be around on christmas eve and they would like to hang out because they won’t be going home because they have a “real modern family with bunches of step parents and shit.”

That is literally what a DJ friend of mine said during christmas who is about a year or so older than me. I need more than ten fingers to count the number of young guys, guys in my age range by a few years on either side, who have, in one way or another, given up on their families or their single mothers.

I have known too many UnSupervised guys long before I ever became aware of the MRM.

Now it seems that network television is aware of the demographic enough to create a cartoon turning the sad reality into a comedic sitcom.

Men suffer. Misandric media and culture turns that suffering into a joke. Figures.

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Zorro February 16, 2012 at 12:49

Hands down one of your best posts I have ever read. I read the Devlin review two days ago, and I was reminded of his 6-part series on Hypergamy, feminism and the decay of the nuclear family. Along with Taken Into Custody by Stephen Baskerville, it was Devlin that sealed the crypt shut on my decision to never, ever marry.

And as someone more to the right of center than the left, I, too, agree that the older generation of so-cons are a pack of braying jackasses. Bill Bennett has no fucking clue. He comes off like some small town, once-popular, preacher who’s lost whatever marbles he ever had, and nobody has the courage to tell grandpa he’s a drooling moron.

Again, great post.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 13:01

@ Keyster.

Thats my point bro. I came to that conclusion before I ever heard of the MRM.

That is why I don’t think it is a calculated systemic attack.

I think that individual women, when unconstrained, are evolutionarily designed to sort men into several camps. The alphas, betas, omegas and so on.

They want good genes, ala the sexy sons hypothesis, but they also want good providers, ala the husband figure.

This is their mating strategy.

In small groups this behavior magnifies and you get small communities where men are shamed into traditional husband roles by women int he church, usually at the behest of gamma men or manginas,.

In larger groups you get widespread feminism that is the result of female behavior being magnified in aggregate to the extreme.

So you get big daddy government. Instead of one man subsidizing the lifestyle, or several men, of a woman you end up with men as a group paying for women as a group.

I could believe that some entities realized that they could benefit from this process so they joined in, examples being politicians or the smoking campaigns or commercials showing men as fools because women commit 80% of consumer spending and so on, but I am not convinced that this was any sort of thought out plan or directed attack by one or more powerful groups.

I think it is just female nature magnified, unconstrained, hyper-emotional, solipsist, and so on.

I see some in the manosphere blaming this, our current state of affairs, on everything from the illuminati to corporations and so on and I am just not convinced of any sort of centralized authority that is attacking us or men in general.

Anyways. I gotta get off of here now. I’ll be back in a few hours.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 6
Highwasp February 16, 2012 at 13:30

Troll King ! yeah ! thank you for putting it into words how the young men raised by (single moms by choice) SMBC and suffering through the (divorce generation) DG has made you wise beyond your years. I applaud you and offer support. I totally feel the same way and near 50… have been enduring for 25 + years now.

“The idea of women as victims falls on deaf ears when you spend year after year dealing with fucking cunts.” Yes it certainly does fall on deaf ears! ~ kick a dog and it will bite…

Rebel February 16, 2012 at 11:21
@Troll King :

“This is almost news to me. I wasn’t completely aware that young men were so thoroughly disgusted…” and you aren’t? why not?

TK: “Hell, even in college and after I knew girls who had one or two kids and got scholarships for school while her babydaddy was working three jobs to pay child support and not go to prison.” uh huh – those were the options offered to me back in the 1990′s – early 2000 – pay CS or cage.

TK: “systemic parental alienation” dood!

TK; “I would never be stupid enough, no offense guys, to have children in America” Word!

but do tell: how did you escape the pregnancy trap when you: “…fucked and hooked up with and dated so many girls.”? are you unable to ‘get a girl pregnant’? did you ‘get cut’? or have condoms actually served you so well?

@ Seamus: “We can see that our inate value as a person for reasons of love, does not matter except for maybe a pump and dump. So why emotionally invest in some joke, we are not women who change with the wind. A romantic blow to our psyche’s are not solved by wine parties and shaking our asses in public.” – so why emotionally invest? – yeah – an emotional investment in women is a losing proposition.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Troll King February 16, 2012 at 13:36

@Steve 85

So fuckin true man. In middle school I knew girls that got pregnant. We are talking 5th grade and 6th grade here. Infact one of the hottest girls got pregnant by 7th grade and when I was working on a stock crew at 18 in a grocery store I saw her come in one day. She had three kids by then and was dating this jackass that obviously had money.

She had three kids by three different guys before she was 18 and at 18/19 yrs old she still had enough looks, she modeled a bit even after having kids, that she snagged a guy who looked fairly high status.

I felt sorry for him. I really did. I didn’t know him, never spoke to him. I said hi to her and that was it. Why would some guy who was dressed in a nice suit be running with a skank like her. She still look hot, granted this was ten years ago, but she came with three different guys mistakes????

What cracks me the fuck up is that she was friends with one of the first girls I had a crush on in middle school. This girl was so fucking gorgeous. I have a bit of a weird accent, especially for the south, and she wold sit there and talk to me and request me to say different words because she liked my accent and then she wold giggle and flirt with me.

She wasn’t the first girl I kissed but she was one of the first I fell in love with. While her friend, the one who later had 3 kids by 17 or so, was fucking various guys this beauty was flirting with me.

Then she asked me to go to a football game with her. I showed up and we hung out and I went and got us some cokes and nachos from the concession stand and when I came back to the bleachers she was gone.

I went looking for her and I finally found her. She was under the stands kissing and making out with a guy who I knew from the rec center. My mom wasn’t around much to pick me up after school so I would hang out at the rec center with most of the other kids whos parents didn’t pick them up until almost dark, sometimes later and sometimes I simply walked home.

I knew this guy from the rec center. He was in High School and I was simply in 5th grade, so was she. One reason I started going to the local comic book shop to hang out, the owner was cool and didn’t mind, with my younger brother was because the first time I had a knife put to my throat was right down the street from the rec center.

My brother was in elementary school, which is right next to the middle school, and my mom was late picking us up again. The very last teacher at the elementary school was standing on the curb with us and after sending me into the school to call my mom again and again she finaly got pissed and said she couldn’t wait anymore because it was about 6pm and she had to pick up her kids from daycare(school got out at 2:30) so I told her it was fine and she left.

About 20 minutes later this fucker named justin and his older brother, the one my love made out with, walk up and they put knives to my throat and threaten me and my younger brother and they took nine dollars out of my pocket. I let them have it. I was raised to protect my younger brother so I didn’t want to start shit.

I hung out at the rec center a bit after this and at the public library, both spots where all the Unsupervised kids hung out, but after getting into a few fights and seeing a few fights and being fucked with by cops I finally found a spot at the comic shop.

The fuckin killer was that it wasn’t long after that that this beautiful girl was flirting with me and making me feel like I wasn’t invisible or a piece of shit. She would ask me to say various words because she liked my accent. BTW, having a accent has come into being very handy as far as getting pussy goes, but I digress.

At this point in time I had gone through speech therapy and was a bit of a outcast and she was beautiful and she actually made me feel like I wasn’t a freak.

We became fast friends and I tried to work up the courage to ask her to be my gf. I told her about Justin and his older brother. She knew them because they lived on her friends street, the friend who was a slut whore that got preggar three times before 18, and she even felt sorry for me.

It wasn’t long later that she asked me to go with her to the local football game.

Then i saw her making out with him, Justins older brother, under the stands where all the other delinquent kids would smoke.

I tried to be friends with her after that but I just couldn’t.

Women really are emotional vampires. It is like they are designed to suck all the life out of you.

The good thing about this story though, I am the part of the first generation to grow up with the internet and social networking.

About a year after this experience I moved overseas with my mom and when I got kicked out of HS a couple years later and sent to live with my dad I ended up back in this small town. She had moved off.

About 3 years ago I was on facebook and I saw the slut who had 3 kids, her friend, had sent me a friend request. I accepted. I noticed that the guy i saw her with at the grocery store wasn’t in her photos and I saw that she had two more kids and had gotten married to a different guy and was divorced.

I also saw how she had gone from hot, to kinda hot, to OMGFUCKING GOD IS THAT JABBA THE HUT???


Then I flipped through her friend list and I saw her. One of my first loves, one of my first crushes. Her name was Stacy.

She made Jabba the Hut look like a anorexic super model. I couldn’t believe it was the same person. The last time i saw her was at the other side of the room at a party I went to in 9th grade when I was back in America for a few weeks visiting with my dad. She didn’t talk to me then but I was still in love with her a bit. She had some skanky looking older boyfriend at that time.

I must have spent 45 minutes trying to figure out if it was the same stacy. She ballooned up and had gotten married at 19 to some black guy in florida who made flavor flav look like a GQ model. Lol.

I wish I was kidding but I am not. Damn. I might go and see if I can’t find some images of her again. Lol

I know this story isn’t actually all THAT bad. That is the sad thing in my opinion. This is my experience of women being nice.

If I have time later maybe I will type up some of the experiences I had when they actually acted like bitches.

Women really are emotional vampires. I have become convinced that 99% of women don’t see men as actual human being but instead as disposable utility devices. Atms and sperm donors and human shields and cannon fodder and armchair shrinks and so on.

Emotional vampire. That is such a descriptive phrase.

The longest LTR I have had lasted right above 3 years and when it ended I felt drained. I literally felt emotionally exhausted. Like my soul had been sucked out.

I can’t even begin to fuckin imagine what you divorced older guys have dealt with. That particular ex gf of mine was fuckin insane and after 6 months of bliss followed by 2.5 years of emotional hell….

God damn, I didn’t have to deal with courts or anything like that.

I can’t even imagine what you divorced guys have gone through.

I don’t want to ever find out. Marriage is retirement for women.

I have had enough relationships before I turned 25 to remind me today how great being single is.

Consider that even when my single life sucks ass, it is still better than some of the worst time when I had gfs. That is how horrible modern young ameriskanks are. Goddamn. I gotta get shit done, instead I keep ranting.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 13:50


“but do tell: how did you escape the pregnancy trap when you: “…fucked and hooked up with and dated so many girls.”? are you unable to ‘get a girl pregnant’? did you ‘get cut’? or have condoms actually served you so well?”


Honestly man. I don’t know. I was always more of a fan of blowjobs and pussy. Especially considering that in HS I knew of girls with herpes.

So I did wrap it up and I usually had gfs or hook ups who were on BC, or so they said and many were but honestly.


I remember sitting there at 23/24 around the time I started thinking about this stuff and I took stock of my life and friends I had had and people I knew, especially considering that between 17-26 (I just turned 29) I knew more than a dozen people either in jail or prison or dead, from suicide to drug overdose to murder to manslaughter to child abuse to breaking into trailers to steaal guns to not paying child support, and I realized that I was fucking lucky as all hell not to have knocked up one or more of my ex gfs.

I even joked about it with my brother. It was around then that I started becoming concious of all of this stuff and then over the next year one of my best friends and former room mate committed suicide and I had some deaths in the family and my grandma came down with dementia and two friends were murdered and about a year later I spent about a year trying to talk to feminists, I am a reformed white knight, about these problems and issues related to men and boys.

I got banned from dozens of feminist sites, even got booted off of HUS when it first started up, and I got tagged with mansplaining and what about teh menz and I got called a troll so many fucking times.

Then one day, remember I did read almost every feminist site out there for about a year, I saw a feminist, who had banned me after calling me a troll, complain about fathers rights activists and MRAs.

I hadn’t heard anything about that. She was kind enough to rant on and on and on and even link to Glenn Sacks blog. Then I found Mens News Daily and Toy Soldiers and AVfM and I just lurked.

I was amazed at what I read. Then after lurking in the manosphere for several months I found this new site that had been set up a few months before. It was brand new and had writers from all over the manosphere.

It was called The-Spearhead. I was sitting around drinking beer and taking stock of my life and guys I have known and I decided, in my drunk state of mind, to post a comment.

I thought to myself. What should I call myself. I had used dozens of screen names, and each was banned, on feminist sites and each time I was called a troll…..then it hit me.


Troll wut?

Da troll…trolltastic…tha trollicus…I am king of the trolls….that is what a feminist called me on her shitty blog….OMGFUCKGAWD>…..

TROLLKING was born.

But honestly. I think I was just lucky not to get a girl pregnant. That and they can’t get preggar if you don’t cum in their pussy…blast it on their face instead. lolz

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 13:52

blowjobs and pussy

Should read blowlobs rather than pussy…

Fuck, I should really proof read this shit before I hit submit….

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 13:53

“She still look hot, granted this was ten years ago, but she came with three different guys mistakes????”

I would say that she came with 3 fairly visible signs of her own mistakes.

As stated above, 90% of all single mums are single by choice. Fuck that noise. Kids are an absolute turn off for me. If you’ve got a kid and you’re a single mum out looking, you’ve already proven that you are unsuitable. Having 3 kids? I will have run a mile before you get around to asking my name.

As for her being ‘hot’… hot is something that burns up super fast. I know girls who I considered ‘hot’ in highschool (9 years ago) that I wouldn’t touch with someone else’s dick. When you’re 26 and have more wrinkles and worse skin than my mother, you’ve done some bad shit that you weren’t meant to do. There was an article I read a few weeks back which showed the difference between ‘hot’ and ‘beautiful’. It was a good read and I agreed with it.

I will agree that having an accent is a fabulous way to get chicks. I visited America 2 years ago and I still believe that it was my ‘ossy’ accent (and the fact that I’m not that bad of a guy) that meant I didn’t sleep alone, except by choice. 3 weeks and 9 different girls. You should try visiting Australia sometime. I know a bunch of girls who absolutely lose their shit over American accents.

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Troll King February 16, 2012 at 13:53

Fuck…I fucked that up too…Goddamn..

Can we get a spellcheck button as a add on…

Between having a small keyboard, my slight dyslexia, and being intoxicated my comments are coming out all fucked up.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
Troll King February 16, 2012 at 14:01


I would love to visit Australia. The funny thing to me is that here in the south girls tell me I either have a boston accent, a british accent, or a australian accent.

I have seen girls that I just met fifteen minutes before lose their shit over my accent and offer me sex.

The funny thing is that when I have been in Europe, or the north east, or the middle east and talking with girls from england to new york they always tell me I have a bit of a southern accent but not too strong.

Then they lose their shit over it and try to hook up with me.

Sometimes it works in my favor, some of them are hot. other times, eeewwww…

I run like a rat from the plague.

Accents are one of those funny subjective things. I do have to say that it isn’t only girls that go crazy for accents. There are several women I have known or hooked up with that had amazing voices. One was a girl from boston. Another was a girl from Georgia. Several more were Egyptian girls and their english speaking voice was intoxicating.

I wonder why people find accents sexy. I guess it probably has to do with ingroup and outgroup sexual compeitition. If someone has a different accent, or other secondary sexual characteristics like skin color or hair texture or whatever, then they have a different set of genes and with everything in biology differences don’t just attract but they create hybrid vigor.

Don’t ask me how I know that…I swear I never grew one weed plant in my life and I sure as hell never breed weed plants….scouts honor.

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 14:13

I’m waiting for one of the ‘older’ MRAs to weigh in here and tell me I’m doing it wrong, or I’m giving MRAs a bad name.

Someone to tell me I’m objectifying women.
Someone to tell me that Not All Women Are Like That
Someone to tell me that people like me give feminists extra ammo to increase their Misandric laws.

It’s almost like a formula at this point.

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Brett Stevens February 16, 2012 at 14:52

From my reading of it, Murray’s point is this:

No one wins.

Single mothers are in a pitiable position because they are delusional and impoverished in terms of the long-term goods they’ll need.

Fishtown is being pushed into destruction.

In the meantime, the elites are also falling apart.

This isn’t a book about one party winning.

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 15:06

I must’ve dreamed a thousand dreams
Been haunted by a million screams
But I can hear the marching feet
They’re moving into the street

Ooh Superman where are you now?
When everything’s gone wrong somehow,
The men of steel, the men of power,
They’re losing control by the hour.

Don’t you know? This is the Land of Confusion. No one knows whats going on. Prophecy, or just a really good song?

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Highwasp February 16, 2012 at 15:10

Steve 85, Troll King, Seamus… I will be 50 within a month. I am one of the old guys I guess, however I am heartened by your words and insights and take hope that the next generation of men will not forget the damage that has been done for the past 40 – 50 years. You young men have been shown the darkness of the feminine all your lives and in no uncertain terms – the previous generations of men and children have experienced it directly as well. You are proof of how that has effected us and I respect your for speaking out.

We men ages 14 – 60 are all realizing the feminine’s willingness and ability to dispose of men and children for their own well being – most women would throw us all under the bus for the slightest personal benefit – equality, patriarchy, safety, social improvement my ass. I can see karma finally catching up with the self absorbed, narcissistic, sociopathic women – what goes around comes around = disposability?! extortion?! slavery?! Really?! well OK. It goes both ways then…

You young men are showing me how the pendulum has finally swung. I take heart in your words and wisdom. I have hope that the future sees women being given back what they have been dishing out… You young men are just the sort to assist in that balance. Rock on!

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Höllenhund February 16, 2012 at 15:16

Wow, how random. AFAIK Devlin hasn’t published anything in 4 years.

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E February 16, 2012 at 15:28

In the USA even in the ghettos, poor people get to enjoy: paved roads, sidewalks, electricity, water treatment plants, basically first world infrastructure is made available even to the poor in America.

And who pays for this, obviously the poor do NOT pull their own weight.
As we all know it is responsible beta-males who work harder and produce surplus economic wealth that make this possible.

I predict in the near future, as more men get pushed out of the economy by TPTB and also some men choosing to “opt-out” and produce only enough wealth to take care of themselves, these ghettos will collapse into a 3rd world state.

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Nemo February 16, 2012 at 15:39

@ Troll King

Women have been treated as gold diggers in popular culture in the USA for a long time. The first reference I can find is a 1919 play that inspired a series of 1920s and 1930s movies:


Rap artists didn’t start this.

BTW, the song lyrics that you mention are derived from an old song I remember singing around the campfire in the Boy Scouts back in the 1980s.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Just1X February 16, 2012 at 16:01

@Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 14:13

“I’m waiting for one of the ‘older’ MRAs to weigh in here and tell me I’m doing it wrong, or I’m giving MRAs a bad name.”

I’m more of an older MGTOW (if we have to use labels) and I’ve been fascinated by ‘you lot’ of younger men. What an effing nightmare. If you lot are right (I have no reason to doubt you) then the shit is far closer to the fan than I thought.

I’d prefer society to get fixed (but don’t how and am not going to charge any machine gun nests to save feminists, manginas or white knights), but if it’s not going to happen, then the sooner somebody pulls the flush, the better.

Best of luck to you all.

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Just Some Canadian February 16, 2012 at 16:04

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Nemo February 16, 2012 at 16:23

@ JSC:

Well, the chances of winning a Nobel Prize definitely go up if your realtives already won one.


Married couples

Marie Curie
Pierre Curie

Irène Joliot-Curie
Frédéric Joliot

Gerty Cori
Carl Cori

Alva Myrdal
Gunnar Myrdal

Mother & daughter

Marie Curie
Irène Joliot-Curie

Father & daughter

Pierre Curie
Irène Joliot-Curie

Father & son

William Bragg
Lawrence Bragg

Niels Bohr
Aage N. Bohr

Hans von Euler-Chelpin
Ulf von Euler

Arthur Kornberg
Roger D. Kornberg

Manne Siegbahn
Kai M. Siegbahn

J. J. Thomson
George Paget Thomson


Jan Tinbergen
Nikolaas Tinbergen

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Charles Martel February 16, 2012 at 16:31

Just Some Canadian
If intelligence were inheritable, we’d have unbroken family lines of Nobel Prize winners.

Nice strawman. Intelligence is obviously inheritable but not in such a ridiculously rigid way.

Everybody gets to roll the IQ dice, but the parents’ intelligence sets the mean for the IQ probability distribution of their offspring. Doesn’t mean that parents with 100 IQs can’t have a kid with a 150 IQ but it’s a low probability event.

Besides, I can’t say that I’ve noticed that women select for mates based upon brains.

Oh, but they do. The smart ones, that is. It’s called assortative mating and it’s why marriage still works – mostly – in the upper classes.

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Rebel February 16, 2012 at 16:46

@Troll King

Since you were wondering, I am 71 years old. (an old goat, as one of my good friends here calls me).

What you have been saying all along this thread makes a whole lot of sense to me, even though it goes contrary to what I have been trumpeting all along (i.e. that there is a plan to run men down).

I’m not saying you’re right and I’m wrong: just that you make good sense, IMO and that now I am a little bit more confused. (but mind you, it may also come with age…lol!)

I had noticed, of course, how angry some men are, but to see the amplitude of that anger is what has taken me (a little bit) by surprise.

I just hope that all that is more than mere wishful thinking, but if a majority of men feel a growing wrath, then there is hope and I can die in peace, knowing that men have at long last awakened and are taking control back into their hands.

Thank you.

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Uncle Elmer February 16, 2012 at 16:48

Whitney Houston’s Death: Why Addiction Is Harder On Women


elmer 4 hours ago

Much of the debilitating effect of drug abuse could be alleviated by visiting a “Day Spa” for a relaxing, rejuvenating, massage or facial.

In fact, women may be able to claim a tax deduction for these services if they can prove that it is part of a drug “recovery” program.

This essay explores the steps to taking advantage of the recovery-massage loop-hole :


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Uncle Elmer February 16, 2012 at 16:49

6 Ways to Promote Work Flexibility Culture Change


elmer 3 hours ago

Often, a company work-life-balance policy is not really needed if there is a nearby “Day Spa”, where women can rethink, refresh, redefine, re-discover, reassure, and reflex just like in the inspirational video link you provided.

Reexamine your attitude about “Day Spas” and give it a try for a relaxing, rejuvenating massage and facial :


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Uncle Elmer February 16, 2012 at 16:54

Women in a War Zone: Republicans Betray Survivors of Sexual Assault and Domestic Violence


elmer draws upon his extensive military experience :

This is an outrage.

And as if failing to protect military women, “heroes” really, were not enough, there is a movement afoot to shut down Women’s Day Spas. Many of these are located around military bases and are a refreshing change from the ubiquitous porn shops and massage parlors that typically exist to service military servicemen.

I applaud ForbesWomen and their bravery in confronting this blatant discrimination against the female gender :



comment deleted

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MT459 February 16, 2012 at 17:04

TrollKing, that was great stuff you put out there…props to you for escaping all the bad influences and not making the same mistakes so many people do.

Anyway, for anyone who read his comments and wanted to dismiss it as a viewpoint from a “lower class” perspective and that not all women are like that…I can assure you that isn’t the case. I grew up in a completely different enviornment than TK did, and girls from the upper middle class are exactly the same. They just don’t get pregnant quite as often (most girls I went to HS with were on birth control by the time they were 16) and a lot of them have daddies rich enough to give them plastic surgery as high school graduation gifts (i.e. lyposuction, breast implants, nose jobs), I saw a lot of it.

I don’t know one guy that I went to college with who left thinking “Man, I really respect women… I think I want to settle down and provide for this girl…I trust her totally.” Guys from the younger generation don’t trust or respect girls at all. Like I said, this isn’t unique to poor areas or lower class people. Girls of all socio-economic groups do crazy shit and slut it up, they just don’t get pregnant as much.

These aren’t even girls without fathers and what not, many of the girls I refer to have active dad’s in their life. I remember going to dinner with a few friends of mine one time, and one of the girls brought her dad along because he was in town. Anyway, the guy was awesome. Told all the dudes of the group stories of his time in the Navy and was buying us drinks left and right. At one point though, I remember feeling sympathetic towards him because he probably had no idea about how easy it was to get in his daughter’s pants. The poor bastard was probably clueless to this and it was terrible that the man did everything right with his kids and family, yet his “little girl” still was an active participant in the degredation of our modern sexual dystopia.

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 17:09


AWALT. No exceptions.

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Uncle Elmer February 16, 2012 at 17:39


Sports Illustrated Cover Girl Kate Upton Is Not ‘Relatable.’ She’s A Model.

elmer gives the man’s perspective :

The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue is really marketed towards women. Men prefer to see more flesh if they’re going to look at lady pichers.

But any woman can achieve model-quality looks by regular visits to their local “Day Spa” for a massage and facial.

I provide more details here :


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Uncle Elmer February 16, 2012 at 17:46

Pampers or Huggies? How Diapers.com Profiles Customers From First Click


elmer Just posted :

Great essay Meghan!

The pointers on marketing are just what I need right now as I try to promote my latest work on human trafficking. Based on your flurry of “sex trafficking” blog posts during the run-up to the Super Bowl I think you will find the following essay worth examination and possible reprint in ForbesWoman :


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Charles Martel February 16, 2012 at 17:46

Anyway, for anyone who read his comments and wanted to dismiss it as a viewpoint from a “lower class” perspective and that not all women are like that…I can assure you that isn’t the case.

I guess that’s addressed to me. You’re reading too much into what I wrote. I was responding to this only: “Besides, I can’t say that I’ve noticed that women select for mates based upon brains.

I have a great deal of respect for what Troll King writes and it’s clear he’s a highly intelligent social observer. I’m also under no illusions regarding the sluttiness of upper class girls, though I think you have to be careful about defining social class solely by money.

Having said that I know many intelligent women who made a deliberate choice to marry intelligent men and the majority of them are still married. This is not just a result of good character though, it’s more that divorce would not really improve the lives of these women. The option they currently have is good enough.

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Anonymous February 16, 2012 at 18:20

“Women really are emotional vampires. I have become convinced that 99% of women don’t see men as actual human being but instead as disposable utility devices.”

A necessary consequence of the way we’re made. Men and women both.

“Women really are emotional vampires. It is like they are designed to suck all the life out of you.”

Exactly. That’s just how they are designed.

Ever had your attention grabbed by seeing an attractive woman? You’re designed that way. She will notice. Always.

Think about how the world must look to an attractive woman. There will be inanimate objects; there will be people who are indifferent to you; other people who see you as attractive; other people who will see you as the competition. The ones who see you as attractive are the ones you can work with. Or on. That’s the world you swim though.

There is another side as well. The ones who see you as attractive are worth more to you than the ones who are indifferent. So, you tend to like them more.

All my own guesswork of course, since I’m not a woman. Makes the mind reel, eh?

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Seamus the Classicist February 16, 2012 at 19:37

One of the major things I have noted is the disconnect between the 30 something men and the 20 something men. Especially in regards to women and relationships (I am speaking in the general population, not the MRM): my group are functioning nihilists, while the older men still have the delusion of hope. My initial thought was a difference between the Gen-Xers having lived their lives during relative prosperity and influence from a resurgent social progresivism. Then I realized that there was a major cultural shift, similar to the rise of Jazz and the roaring 20′s in the early 20th century.

The difference is this: when the Gen-Xers hit their young adulthood, men and women still somewhat socialized in a civil manner were sex was the not the sole motivator and up front. What changed was music, the culture shifted from having rock and ballad influenced hits to atonal sexual beat rap/r&b/club type of music. This changed dancing.

When I was in my early twenties “dancing” consisted of no real interaction or socialization. Basically you go to a place and move next to a girl who was already into it, and she take her ass and grinds it against your cock. It is dry humping, and it doesn’t matter if you are full erect, she doesn’t care, she may not know your name but she has an idea of how big your dick is. I knew guys who would go “dancing” and have some girl they didn’t even know get them off. It is that most primal desire, no face to face getting to really know you (the music is too the club/house party is too dark) just her ass throbbing on your cock, your hands on her gyrating hips (or if she is more forward her tits.)

Allan Bloom said in “The Closing of the American Mind”, ‘rock music offers up on a silver platter all the things a young person was told they would have to wait to experience, sex and love.’ Well now you can hit the buffet, but the offerings are shit, tasteless, and so bad that the leavings give you a sense of how much better a steak dinner would be.

This is why beta-male orbiters will hang on a girl for years without getting anything approaching a real relationship. Women now prefer to latch on to some beta who doesn’t know much about their history, because familarity breeds contempt. What man would love a woman who during in her prime years got fucked up, fucked, chucked; a new guy in her life can have the pretense of lying to himself that maybe “she was one of the ‘good ones’” (NAWALT.)

But every man no matter how debased still has basic logic: he knows that a female who is still unattached after college was most likely not being a celebate little girl and not really monogamous with another man (oh she may have stories that can’t be varrified of being busy in college or a LTR,) and is probably as familiar with the penis as a urologist.

And the truth is the woman of my generation over play their hand: a second and third date are a sure lay, they are not shy about sex at all, just who they sell it to, and they repeat the same patterns over and over again because allt hey do want is a honeymoon period of romance, fucked, and pussy pandering.

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fmz February 16, 2012 at 19:39

Thanks laydeez, its your society and your doing everything rightly.
You’ve done and are doing a great and grating job.

Bottoms Up.


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Mt459 February 16, 2012 at 20:23

Seamus…couldn’t have said it better myself. Women are basically prostitutes who don’t get paid during their late teens/early twenties at this point. I’m not too upset about it, seeing as I reaped the benefits of this modern serial monogomy/hook up culture (I’m only 23), but I still resent it in many ways. I think that having a family in a traditional sense would be great, I just think I’ve experienced, seen and heard too many horror stories to trust a woman in a marriage who can just end it at will and make me a paycheck slave for as long as my (presumed) children are under the age of 18.

Most young guys feel this way too. I know plenty of dudes who are currently in monogomous realtionships (myself included), but almost all of my friends are very, very marriage averse because they know the consequences. Committed relationships can still offer many benefits to both sexes, but marraige is doomed.

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 20:33


I agree completely about the disconnect between the ages. My folks are happily (I assume, 30 years) married and haven’t really had any friends which have gone through the divorce circus. They have massive issues seeing any problem at all.

I showed “The Plan” to my father, pointed out that they were going to make disciplining your pet (among many other ‘normal things’) domestic violence, and his response was that there was a difference between discipline and abuse. Any lawyers in here? Anyone wanna tell me how hard it would be to turn discipline into abuse in court? My guess is that it’d be pretty damned easy.

My mother straight up called me a misogynist. She is absolutely playing for team Vag, and will side with the wimminz over her own son.

Anyways, I explained to my father why I had no plans to marry or father children, his response basically boiled down to NAWALT and that my plan was a good way to die old and alone.

There is a massive disconnect between myself and my father. He can see there are biases, but he just doesn’t seem to understand that these aren’t little problems that you can work through by being a better communicator. These are massive glaring holes in the system, and no amount of communicating is going to stop someone from screwing you over when the law not only allows it, but actively encourages it.

To quote myself from above:

“Women don’t have any social currency left. Girls are stupid, throw rocks at them”

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Budnick February 16, 2012 at 21:00

Anyways, I explained to my father why I had no plans to marry or father children, his response basically boiled down to NAWALT and that my plan was a good way to die old and alone.

One spouse always dies before the other, and grown kids may never call………….to say nothing of the 50% divorce rate.

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Jimbo February 16, 2012 at 21:01

@Troll King

Every single person in the country should hear and read what you just said. It is exactly what things have come to.

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Mt459 February 16, 2012 at 21:05

Steve_85, I envision the same thing happening if I were to tell my folks my plan about never marrying. My dad would agree that there are some biases and that things are different from when he was my age, but I don’t think that he’d be able to wrap his head around what is really going on with modern women.

My mom is a champion for team women till the end. She force fed both feminism and chivalry down my throat as a child and I was able to see the contradicitons as a 6 year old. Think about that…a 6 year old was able to recognize blatant lies, contradictions and propaganda easier than a fully grown woman. Shows you how strong their hampsters really are and how much they hate logic.

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Jimbo February 16, 2012 at 21:32

In 1996 I completed the book “Why Women and Power don’t mix”. After twenty-five years of often obsessive study, debate and contemplation my conclusion is simply that women must be kept under control by the muscle and authority of men. When they are not, they will become progressively devil like. Our forefathers foolishly granted women the right to vote and that was almost exactly akin to the opening of Pandora’s box of evils. There are as many reasons for this as there are stars in the sky. Just one example. What do you get when you put all of the cumulative logic or “illogic” of women together? INSANITY

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 21:49

Agreed, I think giving them the vote was the worst choice anyone has ever made in the history of forever.

I think its hilarious that the best solution I can think of to the problem we now have with women… is to implement the things they say they’ve been fighting against!

Bring on “The Patriarchy!”

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Rocco February 16, 2012 at 22:17

While I agree with all the above, I think we can drop the “throw rocks at them” because I and some here, probably were part of a campaign to stop T shirts for girls that said the opposite.

I, for one will not be a hypocrite.

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Steve_85 February 16, 2012 at 22:26

Your campaign failed. I see that damned T-Shirt almost every time I go to the shops.

Also, since I was never part of any campaign that tried to stop it, I feel absolutely no hypocrisy in saying it. However, I will reign in my disdain for the whores of Australia and not openly suggest that we throw rocks at them.

Can I instead suggest anvils? (/tongueincheek)

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Boxer February 16, 2012 at 22:38

Dear JSC:

If intelligence were inheritable, we’d have unbroken family lines of Nobel Prize winners.

The heritability of cognitive ability is tempered by a process known as “tendency of deviation toward the mean”.

If two bright normal people have a kid, the statistics are in favor of him being above the mean, but less above the mean than the average of his two parents. This makes sense when you realize that the parents were likely themselves anomalous (as in, brighter than the child’s four grandparents) simply by birth, and as cognitive ability is determined by a countless multitude of factors (genetic and environmental) there’s a better chance that he’ll be somewhat closer to average.

The rule works in the other direction as well. Two dullards will have a kid that will probably average out dull, but not quite as dull as ma and pa, and sometimes two morons can have a kid who is quite bright. The US president Bill Clinton comes to mind here (LOL).

Regards, Boxer

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andybob February 17, 2012 at 00:59

Mr Steve-85,

Watching our mothers and sisters instantly batting for Team Vag, even when doing so supports those who seek to annihilate their supposed loved ones (that’d be us), gets less shocking as you get older. It’s such a typical response from women that you come to realise that this is just how they’re made.

I agree with other older guys here (I’m 47) that the awareness shown by young guys like you and Mr Troll King is a very positive sign that feminism is close to running its course. It has produced a vast army of young dudes under few illusions about the true nature of women. Don’t let the blue pill mallaise of those around you prevent you from helping your buddies join the dots as to why things suck so much.

I had to smile about your parents’ attitudes to your clear-eyed pragmatism about ‘settling down’ in the future. They probably miss every point your making except the only one that actually interests them: the fact that they won’t be getting grandkids anytime soon. Calling you a misogynist is garden-variety shaming that all Australian women are adept at.

I’ll hazzard a guess that your dad knows, as I do, that there is a vast difference between discipline and abuse. He just doesn’t realise that feminists have succeeded in bluring the legal distinctions between them. “The Plan” is proof of that. It is doubtful that he will ever comprehend the subversive elements of this horror. He’s long made his bed. Your folks are set in their ways – change is unlikely. – focus on your mates instead.

It can be difficult to know when to bring up MRM-related matters in the greater family setting – and the social setting too. I rarely get to see my famliy as I am currently living overseas, so I prefer not to let controversial matters spoil what little time I have with them.

However, you must make clear to all concerned that you will not tolerate anyone making misandric, man-hating statements in your presence. A few women I know are now very wary of what comes out of their mouths just because it just isn’t worth the dressing down they know will follow. I will never convert those sheilas, but shutting them up is a significant victory – especially if she’s Australian.

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E February 17, 2012 at 01:32


It’s the traitors than need to be identified. You need to purge the MRM of all the weaklings and talkers.

*take a look at your Like or Dislike: votes and get a clue*
Has it ever occurred to you that if we actually took your advice YOU’D be on the list “to purge”.
oooh The irony is laughable indeed!

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stonelifter February 17, 2012 at 01:58

Re master plan
I do believe there is a master plan, but not in the sense that the “elite” gets together every fiscal quarter and work out complex plots spanning generations.

I believe in the “master plan theory” as in world view and how they operate. Things are fucked up because most people have bought into some version of cultural marxism; ie cultural marxism is their master plan. They have no need to get together and plan things out because they all believe the same things and are playing from the same game book even though they’ve never meet. Just like I find common ground with men who’ve I’ve never met yet share a similar world views.

I’m 48 and probably one of the older guys here. I have no complaint about the younger men’s opinions toward woman. It’s formed out their own experience and honest.

My bitch about younger men is more along the lines of them needing to man up. Not in the way feminist use the term; marry bombed out “ex”-sluts etc but to do risky things. To be physical and mentally tough, know how to ride, scout and shoot. How to fight, drink and work with their hands etc etc.

Is there a better more MRM term than the dreaded man up?

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stonelifter February 17, 2012 at 02:19

Ps Boxer

“tendency of deviation toward the mean”..
Yep that’s a valid point, but I wonder how far it extends. Bare with me for a moment.

My father is a tall man who married a tall woman. My brothers are taller than average, but not as tall as me. They married average height women and so far their children seem to be slightly taller than average, regressing to the mean in height. I married a tall woman, who has tall parents in part because she was tall and athletic. My children are taller than average; my eldest daughter played D1 volleyball; my eldest son is tall and followed me into the family business which is physical demanding; my middle son pretty much has his pick of D1 schools for football. My informal breeding program has worked.

I have a young co-worker who’s parents both got MBA’s from ivy league schools, and are fairly high up the corporate food chain. Their son, my co-worker is one of the smarter guys I’ve worked with in a field full of intelligent men, but probably not as smart as his parents. His young bride is also very bright, and she has a super nerd for a father, who’s father had a PHD in physics

My wonder is how, how does “tendency of deviation toward the mean” play out over generations of breeding, as smarter people meet and produce kids who come from gene pools with a lot depth for a particular trait, in this case height and brain power. Reality is we’ll never know, but it’s an interesting question to me

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E February 17, 2012 at 02:56

Charles Martel

Oh, but they do. The smart ones, that is. It’s called assortative mating and it’s why marriage still works – mostly – in the upper classes.

I agree.
People often pair up with others of the same social economic class. BTW assortative mating is one of the reasons why I’m not a big fan of game. Game only works among the lower class aka the prole class. It is lower class men who subscribe to game and it is lower class women who go for men with game. The lower class often pairs up with the lower class.

I was born into the lower class but I rose up to middle class status so that makes me kind of weird. MOST people (probably 80%) do not rise above the social economic position that they were born into. It is my experience that the lower class and the middle class have different values.

While both classes resort to status posturing shamelessly they differ on the preferred resource you have to collect to signal your status level. For the middle class, it’s undeniably HOME ownership. Middle class girls are under a tremendous amount of social pressure to become a home owner and well that means getting married to a responsible beta-male, not getting pumped and dump by an alpha and producing an “unplanned” baby…that’s for the lower class.

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Shark February 17, 2012 at 03:08


Women swelling the ranks of the jobless
Female unemployment hits 1.1 million – the worst in 23 years

Women are the hidden victims of Britain’s flatlining economy, losing their jobs at a far faster rate than men, official figures revealed yesterday.

Women represent 80 per cent of the 710,000 public sector workers set to be made redundant over the next five years.

oh no guys it’s “the end of men”

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Opus February 17, 2012 at 03:46

Nemo provides an impressive list of Related Nobel Prize-Winners, and one might therefore suggest that it is Game, Set and Match for heritability, but I suspect that there is a very different explanation for his list, which in any event does not deal with offspring etc who failed to achieve the Nobel Prize – I once met Frank Lloyd Wright’s son, forever destined to be introduced to one by reference to his famous Father than in his own more modest right.

Simply, if your Dad is a scientist, then growing up in a pro-Science – and comparatively financially secure household – gives one a head start over those who do not. Is doing Science really that difficult anyway, I ask?

Intelligence is also a very difficult concept to pin down. I have occasionally had the misfortune to work with some of the super-brainy (Oxbridge, Harvard etc) people and there is no way I would, if I had the choice, have given some of those people a job. Tunnel-vision, blinkers-wearing, they charge away to disaster, their arrogant certainty always on show. Give me any day someone more cautious and seemingly more stupid.

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Opus February 17, 2012 at 04:03

@Charles Martel

In the light of your revelation I wonder if you would care to tell us, whether you regard John Prescott as Working-Class, or Middle-Class? I think the answer is obvious, though I was surprised to learn that you did not start out as Middle-Class.

Very Interesting view, too, that you have on Game, Classes and Home Ownership. I hope you enlarge on it in some other post so that I may better consider its implications.

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Opus February 17, 2012 at 04:04

My Bad – that should have been addressed to E

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Charles Martel February 17, 2012 at 08:22

My Bad – that should have been addressed to E

That’s a relief.

Game only works among the lower class aka the prole class. It is lower class men who subscribe to game and it is lower class women who go for men with game. The lower class often pairs up with the lower class.

I don’t agree. Game works on all women but must be used with more finesse on more intelligent women. One of the big issues I struggled with as a young man was that I was attracted to good-looking dumb women but could find absolutely no common ground and found trying to talk to them utterly painful. If you’re a smart guy, 140 to 150 IQ say, then 90% of women are more or less out of the picture for you and probably vice versa.

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Art Vandelay February 17, 2012 at 11:25

I suggest you don’t spend too much time looking at their shit, but if you haven’t heard about them before then I do suggest you head to reddit and search for them and take a look at their subreddits. They are a perfect example of the crazy cunts that guys like me have had to deal with growing up. They have no argument or abilit to even discuss topics, they simply mock and jeer.

I think the women in our age group (I’m 26) are really trying to act like the worst of men. They drink and curse like sailors, dress and act like whores and seldom accomplish anything of value in life. There are no more expectations put forth for girls and women on how to behave and what to do in life. They can just do as they please and float through life.

They are completely inconsiderate of others, especially the beautiful ones tend to treat most other people like shit because a nice face and good pair of tits seems to excuse it.

I think Joe DeRosa pretty much nails it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnWQKxsywL8

I think stand up comedy is also a nice way to get part of our message out, listen to Bill Burr for example.

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Observer February 17, 2012 at 12:28

The Bell Curve was big on stats but low on satisfactory explanations. It seems more likely to me that this Harvard graduate’s primary hobby is providing one long extended compliment to himself regarding his intellectual capabilities and deserved social standing rather than giving anyone something to build upon.

Culture has everything to do with the expectations we place upon ourselves and without those, we won’t develop as people or as communities. I have a feeling all immigrant groups would have started out at the bottom on any given testing scale because they’re adjusting to a different set of customs and perspectives. After a few generations though, I’d expect them to rise to the same levels as the native population.

As for blacks remaining behind, it’s useful to note how much racial grievance informs their potential and their willingness to integrate on all levels. Many but not all will insist on reaching for a new “blackness” in order to avoid blending in with the perceived majority. It seems that of all the settled ethnicities in the US, it’s the African Americans who maintain an air of perpetual otherness. Sometimes it’s impossible for others to see where the subculture ends and the counterculture begins. The Nation of Islam probably was the biggest culprit for this along with its most famous proponent, Muhammad Ali. Though Ali has grown and changed a lot since his boxing days, some eyes are still swollen shut.

Latinos represent the new class of immigrants who are least likely to integrate due to technological and economic factors. Many immigrants never truly break ties with the motherland as social media and travel make it possible for them to maintain their affairs at home while they work abroad. They behave more like commuters than residents. They aren’t the only ones, but they are the most numerous. I have seen Greeks and Filipinos act in the same way.

Now in regards to behavior of the lower classes, he glosses over the fact that the government bends over backwards to grant handouts for women (who also expect to be helped) with a corresponding hysterical urge to punish men (who do not like to ask for help). Take away a man’s livelihood and his ability to provide then have the gall to tell him to stop laying about and fine him some more.

When this Murray observes an extra “son” you have to ask yourself if this is not just another man’s way of taming a beast for his advantage. So they created a monster, this is his way of taming it.

The only statement I might agree with is that “men have withdrawn from the marriage market”. We had to for our own survival. The government has made lifeboats out of our own skin and bones so the women and children might be saved. They must live on as uncritical consumers and vassals of the state.

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I Art Laughing February 17, 2012 at 14:37

I’ve been saying t for over a decade that those who need civilized society the most are the ones who are dragging it down the fastest. When tshtf we’re going to need “Phelp’s Field Guide to Flattened Fauna” to distinguish feminist road kill from mangina road kill (not that anyone will care).

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Boxer February 17, 2012 at 14:56

Dear Stonelifter:

My wonder is how, how does “tendency of deviation toward the mean” play out over generations of breeding, as smarter people meet and produce kids who come from gene pools with a lot depth for a particular trait, in this case height and brain power. Reality is we’ll never know, but it’s an interesting question to me

This is actually something that’s discussed a lot in academia. There is a theory that a certain amount of speciation is still going on, and will accelerate when genetic engineering becomes mainstream.

We’re not too far away from the day when a dude can go into a geneticist and order up a baby. Incidentally, this is why I don’t buy into the White nationalist idea of many here. It’s entirely conceivable that your grandkids will be able to order up a baby of any combination of racial attributes.

In any event, the sort of speciation that’s predicted is not racial, but intellectual. Artificial uterus/placenta will allow babies to be born with larger heads than would reasonably pass through a chick’s vagina. Those with the cash will be able to order up a genius with an oversized brain, and the genes of the genius to go with it, leading to a multi-tiered society in only a few generations.

I know that’s not exactly what you meant, but it backs up what I think is your original contention. Human beings selectively breed themselves, in the same way they selectively breed for different traits in different dogs. The Pug is different from the German Shepherd, and each have different means to deviate from.

My bitch about younger men is more along the lines of them needing to man up. Not in the way feminist use the term; marry bombed out “ex”-sluts etc but to do risky things. To be physical and mentally tough, know how to ride, scout and shoot. How to fight, drink and work with their hands etc etc.

That’s a fair bitch. One of the things that those of us here (self-aware brothers) can do is to mentor the younger generation of brothers. Self-confidence and measured risk taking (qualities expected in a man) does not come from his mother, nor from any woman. In an age where fathers are scarce, it’s up to us to preserve some measure of masculinity, at least as an archetype … holding out the hope of a future truth in our labors.

Regards, Boxer

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scott February 17, 2012 at 16:58

In 1988 my wife of five years began an affair with a co-worker, she began working later and later until eventually she was out all night while I sat at home with our two young childern trying to figure out what the hell was happening, eventually there was a confrontation, there was yelling door slaming and an angry fist through drywall, one week later the police showed up at my work and handed me a temporary restraining order, four days after that a female judge enforced it for six months and ordered me to pay $150.00 a week in child support, at the time I was bringing home $325.oo a week. So my wife got to stay in our home with custody of our childeren and carry on her affair while I rented a single room with a shared bath in a shit hole and paid her $600.00 every month. Our eventual divorce was pretty much the same deal. Oh and the co-worker she destroyed our family over kicked her to the curb in less than a year.

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YB February 18, 2012 at 00:18

At 45 years of age, I must be one of the earlier members of the Divorce Generation (love that term). As a child in small-town New Zealand, even I saw the insanity of the young whores in my class. I was a victim of their constant violence, and snapped a couple of times (I hit back, bitches – the trouble I got into lol).

Being repeatedly brainwashed while younger, I went from lower-class to middle-class under my own efforts – yet was stupid enough later to marry. Divorce eventually followed, though thank goodness I had the willpower to refuse to get her pregnant – despite her constant whining. A great deal of luck involved as well, and clear-eyed looking at the financial realities helped.

Now that my eyes have opened, I can see amongst my female acquaintances the shit that is being described by you all. Serial monogamy, sometimes of only 3-4 days duration. Divorce and child-support theft, while fucking an FB and the ex-hubby at the same time. Cock-riding at random, often with more than one man in a night (6 in one case – the fucked-up shit some girls will do and confess to). One girl an acknowledged high-class prostitute, whinging that the man she loves doesn’t want to marry her. Obvious insanity and delusion amongst them all (including women of my own age). One 21-year-old girl is getting genetic testing to prove who the father of her child is – so she can legally force child-support out of him.

NZ runs miles and years behind the rest of the world, and I’ve seen nothing even remotely worth the effort of more than a one-night fuck. Most are not even worth that.

It is heartening to see that you are all bleakly aware of this crap. Don’t let yourselves be snared by these leeches. I feel reassured that I am not alone in my awareness, though others around me – including family – are willingly blinded to the reality.

Special thanks to you Troll King for sharing your story.

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Dicipres February 18, 2012 at 11:47
Joe the Cop February 18, 2012 at 16:07

From the NYTimes article:

“A baby makes a woman grow up, but not a man,” she said. “I can’t imagine ever depending on a man. I don’t trust them.”

Yet you’ll get on your back and spread for one.

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durandal February 18, 2012 at 17:13

Why haven’t more of Dr. Devlin’s fantastic works been published? Sexual Utopia in Power and Home Economics should be de facto required reading for all MRAs along with Daniel Amneus’s The Garbage Generation and the Case for Father Custody.


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Höllenhund February 19, 2012 at 12:33

‘“A baby makes a woman grow up, but not a man,” she said. “I can’t imagine ever depending on a man. I don’t trust them.”’

My gut feeling is to disagree with her, but I think she’s right, although not in the way she probably thinks. For boys, fatherhood has traditionally not been a requirement for adulthood. Young men have undergone various rites of passage, but they normally didn’t involve siring children. A man can grow up in a number of ways, being a father not necessarily being one of them. A woman, on the other hand, only grows up when she becomes a mother, if then.

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Höllenhund February 19, 2012 at 12:34

Another quote from that NYT article:

“Joblessness and run-ins with the law are so prevalent among young men in Lorain that many women interviewed said they had given up on finding a suitable mate.”

Yet they apparently see such unsuitable men as attractive sex partners – after all, they’re bearing their children, as the article informs us. Another example of women’s ancient cuckoldry strategy, I guess, the only difference being that the cuckolded beta is the nanny state in this case.

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namae nanka February 20, 2012 at 06:52

“My gut feeling is to disagree with her, but I think she’s right, although not in the way she probably thinks.”

A study from UC-Irvine discusses how pregnancy is an important stage in female development:

“Pregnancy is a critical period for central nervous system development in mothers,” says psychologist Laura M. Glynn of Chapman University…At no other time in a woman’s life does she experience such massive hormonal fluctuations as during pregnancy. Research suggests that the reproductive hormones may ready a woman’s brain for the demands of motherhood — helping her becomes less rattled by stress and more attuned to her baby’s needs.


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HimThere February 27, 2012 at 22:10

I’ll be 52 this year. Never had children but came close to it a couple of times. In the last few years I’ve been going through long term depression, my father died recently, my mother went into permanent care. The woman I’ve lived with for the better part of 20 years recently went on holiday and camce back with a tan and a new bloke. This isn’t whinging, just stating facts.

Through a series of events I can’t remember now, I bumped into the name F Roger Devlin and rummaged around online for his articles. Though he holds views on religion I don’t share, the ones he’s written on how feminism has royally screwed half the population and is tantamount to modern society unravelling itself I kept going back and re-reading. His writing wasn’t a “light bulb” moment so much as a slow dawning, a realisation that crept up on me.

For some years I’ve felt disengaged with much of what passes for modern values – education these days is no such thing, it’s training, and poor quality training at that; environmental policies are no more than greenwash; “equal rights” PC speak always left me cold; the increasing gap between the have-everythings and the rest of us; the empty jargon of corporate managerialism; off-shoring and the simultaneous use of imported labour (457 visas in Australia); and the constant media barrage whining “where have all the good men gone”? Devlin’s stuff seemed to link some of these disparate (in my mind) threads together – feminism happened largely because men enabled it. At the same time as the feminist mindset denounced male values, corporate greed largely shafted the ordinary bloke’s dedication to graft by either replacing him with machines or dumping him altogether and exploiting cheap foreign labour to do the same job at 1/10th the price (and often at 1/10th the quality).

I can clearly remember my father never being out of work, never having a day or a week on the dole. He was a chippy, an electrician, a copper, a small business owner. Before that he was in the Army. There was always food on the table and a roof over hour heads – my mother worked before she had us kids, but not after. That’s not a criticism, that’s how it was, and I instantly recognised what Devlin was banging on about – if you dissolve the contract that was “traditional” marriage, where two people with complementary abilities worked together, in favour of promoting women’s “rights” to “equality” without bringing men into the deal, it was bound to end in tears. Join that with the almost complete absence of jobs for men that are worth doing (many of the traditional tradesmen and craftsmen are an endangered species in westernised societies), and the unreachable ideals many modern women place on men, and it’s no wonder suicide rates for men are 4 or 5 times that of women.

I’m gradually catching up. One thing that constantly sticks in my mind is that while women have largely succeeded in gaining equal opportunity and equal pay, what they haven’t done is taken on equal responsibility. That means (and a few months ago I wouldn’t have even thought this, let alone said it) had better start stepping up the way men have done for eons – figtht and die in wars, work 12 hour shifts in the mines, haul bricks and steel and concrete on the 43rd floor of a new tower block, and more than anything else take “it” on the chin when “it” is thrown at you – no crying, no wailing about how unfair life is, no runnign to mummy or daddy or hubby. IOW women can have all hte equality and equal pay they want, but they’d better grit their teeth and STFU about how crap life is. If women want equality, fine, they can have it, they can have the same rights to child access as men currently have, and the same amount of maternity leave as most men get in paternity leave (almost none).

And the last thing women can do is pull their heads out of their collective arses when they demand equal opportunity and pay on one hand while whingeing they will only “settle” for men who are their equal or their superior in earning status or social rank.

As for me, I’m slowly beginning to realise it’s about time I got off my own arse and started enjoying the time I have left. It’s slowly dawning on me that while a relationship with a good woman would be nice, it isn’t necessary, and it’s not a guarantee of anything approaching happiness (the last 20 years drummed that into me). And the more I read here and elsewhere, the more I realise many blokes already know this and are already doing their own thing – not with rancour or out of spite, but simply because they’ve realised that long term relationships with women as the rights and responsibilities currently stand just aren’t worth the candle.

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Anonymous December 3, 2012 at 09:09

I did the “traditional” route for college. I finished high school in 1989, graduated in 1993….lived away from home in a dormitory…excuse me :-) “residence hall”

I knew in the college environment it was going to be “liberal” with the women, but most of the women were downright mean, and they hated me more because I did not “chase” them for 40 minutes of pleasure. One girl got so mad because I didn’t take her offer up of “no strings attached” sex. She shamed me, told all of her friends that I “must” be gay because “all guys are horn-dogs” or made nasty comments about my penis size (which she never saw btw).

She should have looked in the mirror

As the 1990′s rolled on, work, moving to San Francisco…college friends getting married and I did go through a spate of depression….thinking that why did I have to settle? What’s the matter with me?

THEN the divorces came for ALL of my college friends. All of them. Divorce was initiated by the woman in ALL cases. Guys stripped of everything. Some reduced to living in their cars. Two driven to alcoholism and madness. False abuse charges. Alimony, child-support, court fees. Doctor bills. Not being “allowed” to seeing their kids, and they would complain to the courts……nothing done.

These were “‘educated” men. With decent jobs. Some still have a decent job, but they have NOTHING to show for it.

Their x-wives????? Cougaring. Going back to school and taking ten years to get a degree. Dating. Shopping. Complaining about how their ex-husband was such a loser. Dating. In massive debt from purses, clothing, vacations, new cars, dinners out. Lunch with their equally neurotic girlfriends who behave exactly like them.

Looks like I didn’t miss out on too much in the end. I encourage men who are in the above situation to hold fast, even though it probably sounds silly and a bit self-righteous from me. I encourage guys in their twenties to NEVER get married.

The weddings I attended of all my friends ended in divorce. I attended seventeen weddings from 1994-1999. As I type this, my younger brother who got married in 2005 has been served for divorce after what he thought was a good marriage last week.

You don’t have to live a “monkish” life like I do, but I really enjoy how it has turned out for me. The pangs of “wondering” if there was a girl for me; or wondering if I would ever be a father waned as my thirties ended…..

I travel now. I own a house. I have many hobbies, interest, and a robust trust and faith in Christ.

Just don’t put all your hopes on a “woman” the grass is always greener

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everythinglori.com April 16, 2014 at 19:15

I love your blog.. very nice colors & theme. Did you design this website yourself
or did you hire someone to do it for you? Plz answer
back as I’m looking to design my own blog and would like to know where u got this from.

thanks a lot

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