Male Training Through Emotional Abandonment & Inferiority Conditioning

by Featured Guest on January 28, 2012

By Joe Zamboni

Hundreds of years ago, in the United States of America, slave owners blocked and severely punished all efforts on the part of slaves to educate themselves. Slave owners knew that if slaves learned to read and write, then they would thereby gain the keys to their own emancipation. Men in the USA, the primary economic slaves and workhorses of modern society, now find themselves in a similar position vis-à-vis women (their slave owners once these men become married).

Slavery is of course much more sophisticated these days, and it relies primarily on boyhood conditioning, social pressure, plus psychological manipulation, and legal enforcement methods. This is contrasted with old-fashioned methods involving ropes, chains, manacles, and other forms of bondage, as well as beatings, and other physical enforcement methods. Many if not most modern American men have been systematically worked so hard, for such a long period of time, that they have virtually no personal time to investigate how it was that they came to be enslaved. They are often educated to become functional as men, more specifically to make money, and to adequately perform other designated roles, such as physically protect women. Unfortunately, for the most part, they do not learn about the relevant history, specifically the antecedent events and attitudes that led to their enslavement. Likewise, they are often so pressed by their manly duties, that they have no time for self-reflection. Even though it may at first seem diversionary from one’s life goals, is important that American take the time to fully appreciate the ways that society has trained and forced men to be both economic slaves and workhorses, as well as take the time to do their own personal psychological emancipation work.

Focusing the balance of this article only on the conditioning of males, consider the psychological disorder called “Self Sacrificing Personality Disorder.” This condition never made it into the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, the compendium of psychological disorders used by insurance companies, psychologists, psychiatrists, and others in the mental health field). This diagnosis, which the author believes he has, was proposed by a bunch of male psychiatrists, including Richard Simons. The diagnosis applied to those people who “remain in relationships in which others exploit, abuse, or take advantage of him or her, despite opportunities to alter the situation.” To this author, that pretty much sounds like a slave who thinks he can’t do any better elsewhere, so he might as well remain in his slave owner’s house (the modern situation takes the form of marriage, and after that, divorce with alimony and child support). Or, using MGTOW vernacular, such a man would be a “mangina.”

It is no mistake that a number of women’s groups were outraged by the proposal to include such a diagnosis in the official part of the DSM. This diagnosis ended up being put in an appendix, and thus officially relegated to obscurity. Supposedly the objection that these women’s groups had was that this diagnosis was coming from a group of men. We all know that men are generally far more creative than women, but according to feminists, anything coming from a bunch of men is suspect and untrustworthy. To this author, this proposal could have only come from a group of men, because women have no idea of what it means to be forced to be an economic slave and workhorse in America today. Granted, modern American women can choose to play this role, but they can and often do soon thereafter opt out of it; they are not coerced to live it.

The fact that this diagnosis was never officially endorsed, due to political pressure from feminists, further underscores the pernicious and pervasive power of feminist groups, in this case their power to block some information that might lead to the emancipation of men from their cages [they also blocked information that might lead to the emancipation of some women, but since when did feminists care about individual women?]. Given the many ways that feminist groups attempt to stifle dissent and free thinking among males, it not surprising that the male psychiatrists who originated this diagnosis were accused of “gender bias,” and later humiliated by their own professional association. In fact, it is this author’s opinion that it was not “gender bias” but “gender insight.”

While many examples of feminist attempts to stifle the dissemination of information that might emancipate American men could be cited, I will mention only one here. In George Will’s column, in Newsweek’s 25 December 2000 issue, Dr. Kathleen Dixon, Director of Women’s Studies at Bowling Green State University is quoted as saying: “We forbid any course that says we restrict free speech!” This author is grateful for the Internet, and web sites such as this, that assist men in their efforts to adopt an alternative point of view, with which they can then emancipate themselves. Collectively we forward-thinking men can break the grip of the slave-masters.

Getting back to “Self Sacrificing Personality Disorder,” perhaps the feminist women had a point in that this diagnosis is not properly speaking a “personality disorder.” It would be more correct to say that it is a systemic cultural disorder — it is the “prevailing male reality.” In this author’s opinion, this condition is the natural result of emotional abandonment, repeated gender shaming, gender discrimination, unfair gender expectations, and the related cruel and insensitive conditioning experienced by males as they are “socialized” to become accepted in the USA. This diagnosis, termed “offensive and regressive” by feminist opponents, was supposedly viewed as a threat to women. While the author won’t go into the details of their arguments here, and the logic of their objections is as bizarre as many feminist objections are, this author believes that the real reason it was found to be so offensive was that it would put women at a disadvantage. Their role as slave owners, as the supposedly superior gender, would thereby officially be called into question. So again we see how truth is stifled in order to “protect women,” when really what is happening is that the institution of male slavery, and the status of men as workhorses, is being protected from challenge.

That feminists who are not psychiatrists should be able to have such a profound impact on a professional matter that should have been handled exclusively by a special committee of experts working for the professional association is disturbing enough. But this should be no surprise to men’s rights activists, because the misandry and influence of feminists has become entrenched in American culture, for instance in so-called “gender studies” in the curriculum at universities. Of course feminists pressure groups would not want an official declaration that this state of mind is pathological, for it would call into question the ways that males are indoctrinated, trained, and pressured to perform in this culture. This diagnosis, as the male group of psychiatrists stated when they advanced the proposal, is much more common in males than females. The gender imbalance, the feminists probably thought, would tip people off that there was “something rotten in Denmark.” It would lead to additional research, publications, speeches, and other visibility about the psychological control techniques used to coerce males into taking on the traditional male role.

The fact that the psychological literature has become twisted and distorted, due to many a feminist influence, points to the fact that many men are best advised to avoid psychologists and psychiatrists all together. The feminist influence is not only profoundly felt in the professional associations, it is entrenched in the universities that trained these people too. Men are better off managing their own emancipation. There is considerable information on the web describing the Self Defeating Personality Disorder and other DSM diagnoses, and this author recommends that you the reader review it. Do your own work, talk to men’s rights activists, discuss your situation with your male friends, attend men’s groups, go to men’s workshops, study the MGTOW lifestyle as discussed at www.mgtowforums.com, and participate with men’s rights organizations. Bring a suspicious attitude to any therapy provided by the establishment (clinics, hospitals, employer health plans, etc.), and note where, and whether, this officially provided therapy is tainted by the hate speech and slavery conditioning that feminism attempts to foist on males.

It is also important that you do your own research, and not take anybody’s word for it when they give you a diagnosis (including this author). Everyone is different, and everyone should have a chance to manage their own emancipation, recovery, and healing process. But American men are nonetheless invited to consider whether the following symptoms describe their relationship with women. According to the male psychiatrists who proposed the Self Defeating Personality Disorder, those who would get the label must have at least six of the following nine behavior patterns (taken from DSM-III-R, published in 1985 by the American Psychiatric Association, pp. 133-134; note that bracketed comments are from this author):

(1) Remains in relationships in which others exploit, abuse or take advantage him or her, despite opportunities to alter the situation [consider the way that so many men remain married to wives that use and exploit them for money],

(2) Believes that he or she almost always sacrifices own interests for those of others [consider how men are still supposed to act with chivalry, for instance paying for dates; and also consider how only men are subject to the military draft, and how the vast majority of war wounded and war deaths are men]

(3) Rejects help, gifts or favors so as not to be a burden on others [consider the conditioning that says men must be independent, must keep their feelings to themselves, must not receive help, etc.]

(4) Complains, directly or indirectly, about being unappreciated [consider how men are in fact unappreciated by women, and expected to give more than women do, for instance in the realm of financially supporting a wife and children]

(5) Responds to success or positive events by feeling undeserving or worrying excessively [male success is these days deemed to be an indication of gender discrimination, while male failure is deemed to be an indication of male inferiority; if an individual male broadcasts information about his success, he makes himself a target, not only of feminist critics, but also of gold diggers]

(6) Always pessimistic about the future and preoccupied with the worst aspects of the past and present [consider that men do not have the safety nets that women do, and here we are talking about domestic violence shelters, aid for the homeless, university scholarships for single parents, and many other institutionalized sources of aid that go predominantly if not exclusively to females]

(7) Thinks only about his or her worst features and ignores positive features [consider that males have been conditioned to be ashamed of their gender, and how they then competitively seek to show that they are “not like those other men,” in the process pathologically cater to female desires and opinions, thereby indirectly further enslaving themselves to women]

(8) Sabotages his or her own intended goals [consider how so many men give up their own life goals, and do what is expected of them, like getting married and having children when a girlfriend gets pregnant by “accident,” even though they did not really want to do these things]

(9) Repeatedly turns down opportunities for pleasure [consider that female pleasure is the goal that both males and females should be seeking, according to this culture, and this shows up in an emphasis on female day spas, female exercise classes, female jewelry, female fashion clothing, female TV programs, and so many other goods and services intended primarily if not exclusively for women; male pleasure is a distraction that keeps slaves and workhorses from doing what they should be doing, like making money for females, and like protecting females]

In summary, consider how large and powerful animals are controlled by humans. The elephant in India has a skinny man riding him, working him until death does them part. The elephant pulls logs, and does all sorts of heavy lifting, and for what? A little food the elephant could have obtained without help? Why would they do that? It’s conditioning; it’s training; it’s indoctrination. For a baby elephant, first it’s a heavy chain and a stout stake in the ground. After the elephant has tried and tried, but has repeatedly failed to escape, it’s spirit has been broken, and he gives in to his chained existence. Like a trained horse, the young elephant has been broken. Later in life, only a small chain with a small stake in the ground, that an adult elephant could easily uproot, is nonetheless sufficient to keep him in place. Men in America have been conditioned in a manner not too far different (in fact a number of women’s advice books discuss conditioning “your man” using dog training tactics). Their early years dominated by women in positions of authority (mothers, teachers, babysitters, etc.), young human American males are totally dependent on females, and as a result they become hooked on female approval and praise. That is the stake in the ground, later reinforced by sex, affection, and societal approval. But the difference between elephants and humans is the ability to self-reflect, and then potentially to change. Will American men live up to the name that scientists gave us (“homo sapiens” – wise and rational man)? It remains to be seen.


Joe Zamboni is not a psychiatrist or licensed mental health professional. Nothing in this article constitutes professional mental health advice. A special shout goes out to Mr. Zorro for his advice and encouragement.

{ 104 comments… read them below or add one }

keyster January 28, 2012 at 10:43

“The fact that the psychological literature has become twisted and distorted, due to many a feminist influence, points to the fact that many men are best advised to avoid psychologists and psychiatrists all together. The feminist influence is not only profoundly felt in the professional associations, it is entrenched in the universities that trained these people too.”

Dr Tara J. Palmatier broke from the biased bounds of her own profession to specialize in treating men, devoid of the feminist narrative that permeates it. She lost friends and associations by turning against the Femocracy that lords over the mental health industry. She’s became a pariah in certian circles for treating men, as men (How dare she do that!).

She specializes in treating men for DSM, and helping them deal with women who suffer from bi-polar and borderline disorders. Her biggest challenge is getting them to recognize their own misery, that they’re not the problem and taking action to fix it.

From a psychiatric standpoint, it’s ground-breaking work…as the bias towards the female and the feminine mental condition is pervasive in both treatment and research fields, even when treating males. She’s a very unique individual.

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Rebel January 28, 2012 at 10:45

“Men are better off managing their own emancipation. ”

That sums it up nicely.

It also means that men must stop being workhorses. But that’s the most difficult part. American men work like horses, positively: I have noticed that many times. Men must snap out of that. They must.

And everything must be done in order to illuminate those men’s minds to their slave status.

This has been my discourse all along: I have talked about nothing else on this forum.

The slaves must set themselves free: it’s a question of survival.
If we fail, then those who will come after us will be enslaved forever.

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woggy January 28, 2012 at 11:12

‘To this author, that pretty much sounds like a slave who thinks he can’t do any better elsewhere, so he might as well remain in his slave owner’s house (the modern situation takes the form of marriage, and after that, divorce with alimony and child support). Or, using MGTOW vernacular, such a man would be a “mangina.”’

Mangina?
Perhaps I’ve got it all wrong, but I always thought a mangina viewed women as “always right” (because he thinks like a woman), rather than feeling as though he can’t do any better.
I’d think that “pussy-whipped” might be more accurate.

I often have wondered whether men in this situation had some form of “Stockholm Syndrome”, but I came to reject that notion. Hostages afflicted with Stockholm Syndrome actually have support and emancipating encouragement from the public.
Men these days do not.
Ask Kay Hymen-itch.
Or Bill Bennett.
Ask any of the “Man-Up” crowd.

“…further underscores the pernicious and pervasive power of feminist groups, in this case their power to block some information that might lead to the emancipation of men from their cages.”

Of course it is well understood- except possibly in neo religious and so-con circles- that the best course is not to enter the cage to begin with, and those who know this include those in the “captor” description – or those advocating for the captors.

Wild animals have to be shot with a tranquilizer or baited with fresh meat to enter a cage – interestingly enough, there’ll be a bunch of women advocating in behalf of these animals from then on- but for lots of men, a simple “Man Up” will do.
Maybe that’s changing.

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J January 28, 2012 at 11:26

My situation is true with this as well. I have had to re-condition myself on several topics including but not limited too dating (how I met my gorgeous, multi-lingual wife, won’t marry western civ women), how I view education, and how I relate to people on many levels. The indoctrination I received was very deep. I was amazed how my wife, mother, aunts, sisters, female work associates, exes, all do this to us to some extent?! They are oblivious to the magntitude of what they expect from men! They don’t get it when they challenge me, they have the “doe in the headlights look,” and I run them over as merciful as possible if family. If not, well, I try to maintain my professional composure lol. I cannot tell them the way I want to, screaming and belittling as much as I like, even though the military servicemember in me wants to drill them for oil, and roar at the top of my lungs. Holding the moral, and intellectual, high ground comes with responsability. Over-extending one self allows for your opponents reversal, we all know the monstrosity we face, we have to be persuasive, but not a fool! Proverial rock and a hard place, I guess? I practice Jiu Jiutzu, that art holds enormous amounts of potential metaphors as to what we are in! We grapple with so much, I can understand and appreciiate why some men just walk away. Like I said, I didn’t, I married foreign and I don’t regret it one bit. Pity my brother in law though, my sister is a real $(&*%. LOL

I have nieces who ask me why I say that, and younger women and girls I have mentored, but the cultural bonds are so well entrenched, it takes a lot of explaining. I imagine some might say let them have it, but if I become like rabid feminists when we overtake them(and we ARE overtaking them)…. I am no better then Dworkin or Steinem.

I have two sons, who I must train in ways that the tradition of manhood would have made easy( I don’t mean chivalry). One thing I do agree with is that men are capable of overcoming great evil, Im more then happy to re-learn history correctly, and show my sons what it means to be a man. However, I have walked away from what women today expect that to mean. This great article says a few reasons why. However, much of the feministic brainwashing my sons will go through in school, culture, and the workplace will be challenging, and unavoidable. I know now what to look for that I did not even see growing up myself, it is my responsability to my boys. Fortunately, my sons won’t have to deal with as much as we did! If they choose to marry, fine, but they will know wht they are getting into. Hopefully they will have real birth control options, and a real contract to sign and not get enslaved under if they do. If not, I will scream RUN at the top of my lungs. No matter how good she is LOL.
Like many of you, I am keeping my head down, only until they(feminists, politicians, family court “professionals”) show their true colors and I can “liberate” as many of those greedy, bloodsucking bastards that I can from thier positions. I don’t have any sympathy for what happens to them afterwards…..even my family?! Many of them knew, and let me have it anyways!

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Zorro January 28, 2012 at 11:31

So who the hell is Mr. Zorro?

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 11:57

Woggy

“Mangina?
Perhaps I’ve got it all wrong, but I always thought a mangina viewed women as “always right” (because he thinks like a woman), rather than feeling as though he can’t do any better.”

Woggy

Mostly accurate but you can add a few other characteristics to this such as a willingness to believe everything a woman says and a desire to serve his mates nads on a silver plate to some bint for just a tiny hint of female approval.

Keyster.

“Dr Tara J. Palmatier broke from the biased bounds of her own profession to specialize in treating men, devoid of the feminist narrative that permeates it. She lost friends and associations by turning against the Femocracy that lords over the mental health industry. She’s became a pariah in certian circles for treating men, as men (How dare she do that!)”

You are so feckin naive it is beyond belief.

I doubt you will understand for a long time yet, nevertheless, for the sake of the younger guys.

Any woman and I do mean any woman is simply not capable, not willing, never in a million feckin years to advise men. Until you understand this you will still be going around in circles turning on other men simply for them not drinking your brand of kool aid.

This is why I say and will continue to say. You Paul Elam and AVfM are doing more harm than good. You are fooling a lot of guys into believing the bullshit that some bint can advise men and your trying to convice them by giving her main credentials as having turned against the feminist meme and lost friends etc ?

When she ( Dr T ) starts telling men over the airwaves all the tricks manipulation shitty nature incredibly selfish two faced lying back stabbing bags of shite that women are then I might, just might start believing her. Until then she is making good money from mens pain and confusion. And you Keyster are fuckin promoting her shit !

” Specialize in treating men ” WTF ? She hasn’t got a fuckin clue !

For fucks sake man, give it a rest, you are embarrasing.

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Raj January 28, 2012 at 11:58

I’ve noticed a recent spike in MSM of portrayal of males as victims. The other day there was Law and Order SVU episode about boys being molested by their coach as well as some other concerned female activists blogging about how bad men have it. This is not good news.

The state is nobody’s friend. It only cares about putting one group against another so it can exert power over both. Don’t let anybody portray you as a victim no matter how good it feels. Don’t let anyone first define and then solve your problems no matter how well intentioned they seem. This only makes you powerless. Everyone has a unique set of challenges and must find their own solutions. There is no one right way. Women as a whole are not the enemy, they are just looking out for their own (supposed) best interests and we need to start doing the same on an individual dynamic way.

A person who enslaves him/herself to another has made his decision and will get its good/bad consequences. Respect his/her’s decision. Those who don’t agree with it will choose a different path but shouldn’t impose it on others.

We men collectively and individually dug our own hole and will dig overselves out on our own. We don’t need shrinks analyzing us. Thank you.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 13:12

FuckWomenandTheirInfluence

You are on the wrong site sweet pants. Try AVfM.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 13:13

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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W.F. Price January 28, 2012 at 13:23

Mr Price

I hate it when you do that. It really confuses me lol

-Oddsock

If I let them post a few maybe they can blow off some steam and calm down — only takes me a few seconds to remove them.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 13:31

No problem Mr Price. I see what you mean.

On the plus side. I suppose me looking like I am talking to imaginary posters will only enhance my position as the spearhead tinfoil hat nutter !

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DCM January 28, 2012 at 13:35

“Raj January 28, 2012 at 11:58
………………
We men collectively and individually dug our own hole and will dig overselves out on our own. We don’t need shrinks analyzing us. Thank you”

True, but we can use them and their words to our own ends.

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Rocco January 28, 2012 at 13:39

@ Raj

It’s a tight rope, not wanting to be seen as a victim in a culture that teaches you cannot, because of your gentials, be injured.

It’s OK that society starts to see the condition of men. The other day I linked the report from the NH Commision on Men and the plank of the MRM is pretty much what the commision found.

@ oddsock

I absolutely agree with you about Dr. P. She’s great and sounds like a kind and caring person but she wrong, dead wrong about women and thus about men, IMO.

She says women suffer from BPD. Well this is patently false. The percent of the population that is defined as having a personality so abnormal as to be considered in the DSM is almost certainly not 99+% of the female population.

This is something that has happened whenever people don’t like the results of what they see socially….they medicalize a behavior.

Our author here, like a honorable man admits that the behavior of men is not so much a personality disorder as a product of exposure to enviromental stressors, like post traumatic stress disorder.

Thus Dr. P cannot face the truth. The german people after Hitler admitted what happened. Women do not like to apolagize and, as you’ve said, Dr. P. cares very much what women think of her.

So, maybe this is as close as she can get to critisizing women and staying in practice, but I thank her for what she’s doing. I have been personally helped by reading her campasion for men in a uncompasionate society….it is revolutionary, but she is keeping her bridges open with the other team…..

You are right, she will not admit the truth that women have just been behaving like the straw man “patriachs” they invent.

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Anonymous Reader January 28, 2012 at 14:02

Oddsock, no worries, most of the regulars here know you talk to yourself, answer yourself and get into long arguments with yourself. It’s not like you’re the only one, eh?

(Yes he is!)

No, he isn’t!

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AnotherJay January 28, 2012 at 14:05

>>> Oddsock:
This is why I say and will continue to say. You Paul Elam and AVfM are doing more harm than good. You are fooling a lot of guys into believing the bullshit that some bint can advise men and your trying to convice them by giving her main credentials as having turned against the feminist meme and lost friends etc ?
>>>

If that’s your beef with Paul and the AVFM crew, you are sorely misguided. AVFM is responsible for more activism (real world influence) and awareness than I have seen elsewhere. AVFM is growing in popularity, reaching more men, and educating them to think critically about themselves and society. Educating them about the dangers of blindly pursuing women and giving in to their whims.

Say what you want about Dr. T, but even she helps expose the lies, hypocrisy, and dangers of women. The more people who spread the word, the better.

If you don’t like Dr. T, that’s fine. I’ll hold nothing against you for that. But to say AVFM is doing more harm than good? Seriously?

Have you read the Agent Orange files? Have you read the articles exposing how deep the radfems are entrenched in real government policy? Have you read the articles exposing the government funded initiatives to circumcise 28 million African men under false pretenses? Have you read the articles exposing the use of male slave labor in prison? Have you read their calls to action, to write government officials and otherwise spread the word to help change these disastrous policies?

Don’t dismiss the site just because they’re friends with Dr. T. That’s incredibly short-sighted. Hell, she barely even posts anything there except for a few comments.

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Charles Martel January 28, 2012 at 14:14

JZ
Slavery is of course much more sophisticated these days, and it relies primarily on boyhood conditioning, social pressure, plus psychological manipulation, and legal enforcement methods.

I think it’s legit to point out that we men are also victims of our own biology, something I have come to resent as I’ve grown older. We carry a biological imperative to seek the attention and approval of women. How much easier life would have been if I’d been able to dispassionately exploit the women who have passed through my life, unburdened by any sense of obligation or fairness.

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Keyster January 28, 2012 at 14:21

“When she ( Dr T ) starts telling men over the airwaves all the tricks manipulation shitty nature incredibly selfish two faced lying back stabbing bags of shite that women are then I might, just might start believing her. Until then she is making good money from mens pain and confusion. And you Keyster are fuckin promoting her shit !”

Here we have a prime example of someone who bases their entire opinion about someone or something on nothing more than personal bias, prejudice, blind rage and assumptions or “from what they’ve heard”.

Have you ever listened to her show or have you ever been to her website? Have you ever met her or know who she is or what she really is all about? No, of course not. You simply hate her because she’s a woman and you hate and distrust all women full-stop, regardless of anything, and you can never be convinced of anything else; a bonafide unapologetic misogynist idealogue.

I get it Sock. You’re right about everything, and anyone who disagrees with you is a naive idiot and that’s just the way it is.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who said he “Hates Glenn Beck!”.
“Have you ever read any of his books?”
“No”
“Have ever listened to his radio show?”
“No”
“Have ever watched him on TV?”
“No”
“Well then how can you say you hate him?”
“Because everyone knows he’s a crazy right wing extremist and a racist. That’s all I need to know about him to hate him.”

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Rebel January 28, 2012 at 14:27

@Oddsock:
“When she ( Dr T ) starts telling men over the airwaves all the tricks manipulation shitty nature incredibly selfish two faced lying back stabbing bags of shite that women are then I might, just might start believing her. Until then she is making good money from mens pain and confusion. And you Keyster are fuckin promoting her shit ! ”

What a breath of fresh air!.

At last!

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Joe Zamboni January 28, 2012 at 14:29

@ Woggy

The slang word “mangina,” as I’ve used it here, is a derisive term for a man who is pussy-whipped, a man who doesn’t stand up for himself, a man who excessively caters to a woman’s needs (generally the wife, but sometimes his mother), and a man who is totally controlled by this same woman. In other words, a modern day slave to women. I appreciate that there are many possible definitions out there, and I don’t think that a pissing match about the proper definition would end up being a good use of our time. Since this article is about the enslavement of American men, and the possible methods for their emancipation, I hope you will define the word in that context.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 14:30

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 14:46

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Joe Zamboni January 28, 2012 at 14:48

IMO, women, as a gender, are not the enemy. Yes, they are often selfish and complicit, in that they take advantage of a social and legal system that blatantly favors and protects them. Yes, for the most part, they are in denial about the severity of the unfairness between the genders in our society. Yes, they often avoid talking about men’s movement concepts because they feel as though opening up these topics is likely to jeopardize their privileged and legally-supported position of power. Yes, they often show a surprising lack of compassion towards men (especially during legal battles related to a divorce or child custody), and they most often do not bother to really take the time to understand what it’s like to be a man in America today. Yes, they are for the most part untrustworthy, often breaking their promises based on the flimsiest of reasons, if that would benefit them (and unfortunately not caring about the impacts on men). Granted, yes, they are often childish, and have no sense of honor or ethics. I see these and related problems with women as results of their laziness, results of them taking advantage of their privileged position in our society, results of the fact that they have not needed to do the inner work that we men must do in order to free ourselves from oppression. I believe they are capable of doing this work, should their circumstances so require; but in America today, their circumstances do not require anything near this difficult.

What is our –>TRUE ENEMY <– is feminism, and the oppressive social and legal system that enslaves us. This system is our enemy because it, among other things, institutionalizes the invisibility of men, the disposability of men, feminist preferences for women, and the feminist exclusive preoccupation with the views of women.

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namae nanka January 28, 2012 at 14:56

“It is the women . . . who dominate all of American life. The men are interested in nothing at all; they work, work as I haven’t seen anyone work anywhere else. For the rest, they are toy dogs for their wives, who spend the money in the most excessive fashion and who shroud themselves in a veil of extravagance.”

Albert Einstein

The American Woman hosted on Angry Harry’s site is a good read into the attitude towards and of women from the 40s-50s.

http://www.angryharry.com/reTheAmericanWoman.htm

with his terse foreword

“(Note: Basically, Eric Dingwall shows how pathetic are American men in that they allow themselves to be totally dominated by their women.)”

and Freud’s quote on American men marrying young, might not be as true today(and I doubt he has much respect today), sets the tone of The American Woman on the link above:

“American women are an anti-cultural phenomenon. They have nothing but conceit to make up for their sense of uselessness. You have a real rule of women in America. You young men go to college with girls, fall in love and marry at an age when the girls are usually much more mature than the men. They lead the men around by the nose, make fools of them, and the result is matriarchy. ”

http://www.welmer.org/2009/08/12/freud-on-american-women/

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 15:01

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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W.F. Price January 28, 2012 at 15:14

Oddsock, I really don’t think Paul stirs up trouble with other sites. Some people do, but that’s an unavoidable nuisance when traffic reaches a certain level.

AVFM has its own approach, and is reaching out to a lot of people. It’s going to take a lot of different venues to make a change, so my philosophy is that whether or not I directly support any given men’s site, I’m going to refrain from bashing it for sure.

We’re still at the point where the rising tide lifts all boats — this is still a fresh issue. And, the great thing about it is that we can do things as we see fit. We can “go our own way” in support of men. ;)

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Snark January 28, 2012 at 15:21

Thankyou, W. F. Price.

Oddsock, I really don’t know what your issue is with Paul Elam and AVfM. Maybe some personal shit happened between you. I don’t know. Or care, to be honest. Actually it doesn’t even matter to me if you keep on bashing AVfM because it won’t make any difference. So in the end, I have no point to make. Thankyou for listening.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 15:24

Mr Price

Yes I understand and agree with most of what you say. What I have difficulty with is refraining from giving the AVfM supporters club that arrive here and start trying to tell us we are doing things wrong or did not do them right or they know best an old style MRA broadside that so many of them desperatley need. They think they are MRA’s ? Pfttt, they are going to have to develop a much much thicker skin than they are showing at present.

I am not a very good Buddhist today.

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AnotherJay January 28, 2012 at 15:41

Oddsock,

Dr. T and Paul don’t have the same audience, but they do have some overlap since they promote each other. I’ve listened to both shows.

The subject matter between them is entirely different. Paul’s show frequently addresses the issues I mentioned above. Hammering the point to men that feminism and its supporters are a destructive influence on society. Have you listened to Paul and others bash PUA’s for chasing women? Have you heard them refute NAWALT, discussing how virtually all women are complicit in the atrocities committed by women and their feminist policies?

You can hear the different audiences in the voices of the men who call them. Paul’s show attracts agitated people who are willing to take action and spread the word. Dr T. attracts men who are completely beaten and helpless, desperate to salvage their relationships with women. It’s sad, but those guys need all the help they can get.

I haven’t heard of Paul stirring up anything on other MRA sites. Most activity I see is in response to misandric articles on lousy blogs. It’s not much different than Elmer when he posts Forbes articles here.

Paul takes pride in his work. By his own admission he’s stubborn and strict in his goals. He knows what he’s doing, and he acknowledges people who disagree with him. Just read his responses when people tell him to tone it down, or to lose the profanity to appeal to more mainstream audiences. There’s even some conflict among his own staff. But they respect each others differences. They get the job done, and they get the message out. That’s what counts.

I’ve been following The Spearhead for about two years, and AVFM for one year. I’ve read almost every article that’s been posted to either site during that time. AVFM is not doing more harm than good, and they certainly don’t cater to manginas. Support for MGTOW is very strong over there.

Just as The Spearhead and AVFM attract different audiences, both sites are desperately needed for the success of men’s rights.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 15:48

Another Jay

Ok no problem.

Round and round in circles we go.

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Traveller January 28, 2012 at 16:05

“Hundreds of years ago, in the United States of America, slave owners blocked and severely punished all efforts on the part of slaves to educate themselves. Slave owners knew that if slaves learned to read and write, then they would thereby gain the keys to their own emancipation.”

Again this story of the American slavery. Aside the fact I would know how if a slave is able to read a poem, this breaks the metallic chains.

But if the slaves were got from a rainforest where they had not written word nor any evolved civilization, it is really mysterious how they could be attracted to reading and writing once brought in the slavers’ country.

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Phil January 28, 2012 at 16:53

AVFM is a great site. Dr. Tara is a great asset for mens rights.

Whenever some mens rights group starts up, there are always a few men who sit on the sidelines, telling the mens groups how they are doing it all wrong. Oddsock is one of those few men.

I wish AVFM the best.

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James A Donald January 28, 2012 at 17:03

Whining that men suffer from false consciousness is implausible, and if plausible, still counts as whining.

To complain that men are subordinated to women concedes the equalist argument that men and woman are naturally equal, and society or the state somehow wickedly makes them unequal.

Men are the expendable sex. Always have been, always will be.

Eggs are precious, sperm is cheap. Always have been, always will be.

Women can create life, men cannot.

Men are the superior sex, the higher status sex, the more powerful sex. On average men are stronger, smarter, and more creative than women. It is natural for men to lead and women to obey, and natural for men to die protecting women.

To be equal is to be interchangeable. Are men and women interchangeable?

Obviously not.

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Joe Zamboni January 28, 2012 at 17:25

@ Traveller, re January 28, 2012 at 16:05 -

It is contradictory that you can’t understand why slaves learning how to read and write would lead to their emancipation. I wonder why you visit web sites such as this? Is it just amusement? Or are you just a troll trying to sidetrack the conversation? Aren’t you here to learn about your own emancipation?

Reading and writing allowed slaves to get a sense for the big picture, allowed them to understand things about the way society is put together that they could not have understood before. It has nothing to do with whether the society from which they were taken used reading and writing. Everyone is capable of learning. The following is from “In Their Own Words: Slave Narratives” – Abolitionism in America:

“For slaves and their teachers, the exercise of reading and writing was a dangerous and illegal one. In most southern states, anyone caught teaching a slave to read would be fined, imprisoned, or whipped. The slaves themselves often suffered severe punishment for the crime of literacy, from savage beatings to the amputation of fingers and toes.

“Although some masters did teach their slaves to read as a way to Christianize them, most slave owners believed that teaching such skills was useless, if not dangerous. They assumed that slaves had no use for reading in their daily lives, and that literacy would make them more difficult to control, and more likely to run away.

“For those who managed to become literate and escape to freedom, the ability to write would spark the growth of a powerful genre of literature: the slave narrative. For the abolitionist movement, slave narratives would become tremendously effective weapons in attacking the institution of slavery. Despite the danger of physical punishment and the threat of capture for the authors of slave narratives, these men and women took great risks to empower themselves, and in some cases, achieved freedom.

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ecnayonna January 28, 2012 at 17:25

reading that list about Self Defeating Personality Disorder and realizing i have had about 5 of those things. sigh. its that same feeling i had when i had another man tell me i just give and give and give with no expectations of getting anything back. i think that was what made me swallow the red pill instead of letting it slightly dissolve on my tongue. the month or so of bitter anger is a very unique experience i must say. and like all indoctrination its easy enough to slip back into old habits. which i sometimes do, but atleast when i have it wasnt me placing a woman on my pedestal. since i was mostly a white knight i suspect that is why when i read about them or see them in person i tend to feel rather pissed off with that man now. seeing a reflection of my older self.

as for Spearhead and AVFM. well i follow two of AVFM on utube but rarely go to their site. Spearhead i like to visit once a day because i enjoy reading the articles. though i rarely post a comment i do like thumbuping comments i like.
though good videos i always love to watch Chapin’s INFERNO and Manwomanmyth

I guess to me, the message is important, not the person saying it. atleast not at first. once the message gets your eyes open you tend to gravitate to those you feel most understand you.

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doclove January 28, 2012 at 17:26

Many men have difficulty percieving how modern day marriage and its aftermath of either a divorce or even a lasting realtionship are slavery. They are wrong not to percieve how marriage is modern day slavery for men, but I can’t fault them for this which I will list below. The society at large has enslaving aspects to men at large even if he is single and realizes what those enslaving aspects are. It’s difficult for any of us to escape all those enslaving aspects even when we know what they are and how to escape some but not all of them.

The chains of slavery rest lighter on the slaves now than back then because they can. The technology to trace us, tax us, and regualte us is extraordinary and has never existed before. Being as physically as brutal as back then is simply unnecessary for now. Add to the fact that modern day education is more of a propoganda machine than true education. You could say the same about the mainstream media being more propoganda concerning news and entertainment than it was in in yesteryear when it was more about the truth in news and true entertainment. Let’s use the U.S. military Armed Services Aptitude Battery, ASVAB, or whatever it’s predacessors were as an example. The U.S. military has always been interested in what your aptitudes and IQ were since the 1st World War when these tests were first given to make a better fighting machine which would match individual soldiers with jobs that they were going to help the Army’s mission the most with. In the 2nd World War, 99% of the Whites and 85% of the Blacks were considered functionally literate in the ASVABs predecessor test. Today that number has dropped to 85% for the Whites and 65% for the Blacks. Even in the Korean War, the U.S. military was concerned about the drop, but they discovered that the Korean War veterans weren’t as well educated nor functionally literate on average as the 2nd World War veterans, and the Korean War began only 5 years after the 2nd World War ended. You simply can’t have a subjugated population believing in Socialism and its viscious daughter feminism without ensuring that not only are they fully propgandized, but are less literate and truly educated on average.

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doclove January 28, 2012 at 17:45

Too many Americans especially men and to a lesser extent women are enslaved by Socialism and its viscious daughter feminism because as a dissident of Communism, Czechoslovakian and later Czech Republic Vlacav Havel, would say they live within the lie. This is how slaves are made—living within the lie. Socialism and feminism is a lie.

Communism failed because it used too much force. It failed because it let and even encouraged the population to become too well educated and too literate. It failed because of too much of racial, ethnic, cultural and lingustic homogeneity within the countries and areas it held sway over, and people with this homogeneity were more able to secretly and openly help eachother not live within the lie. This eventually led to their freedom. It failed because people were smarter about discerening what was a lie and what was the truth being told to them even if they never spoke up for the truth unlike our everyday Weterners especially Americans. These reasons and more are why Communism (Socialism) failed in most countries it once held sway over.

Our ruling elite are not trying to suddenly break us as Communism did. Its a softer gentler Socialism which slowly erodes us, but the goals are essentially the same as harder Socialism once known as Communism. We end up with tyrrany either way. So far the softer Socialism and its viscious daughter feminism is working much better than the harder Communism because it much more effectively gets a much higher percentage of people to think liberty is slavery and slavery is liberty.

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Turbo the Drycleaner January 28, 2012 at 17:47

I sort of agree with Joe, in that women are not the enemy. Human beings are motivated primarily by self-interest, and this will never change. In places like Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, where the way to advance your position was to betray and destroy, thats what people did. Now is no different. If the laws are changed so that women dont have anything to gain by treating men like shit, then they wont.

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Alcuin January 28, 2012 at 17:53

“a number of women’s groups were outraged by the proposal to include such a diagnosis in the official part of the DSM”:

Feminist rage and hysteria are used as a way of hiding the truth about pretty much anything. The rage over the Slutmarching nonsense was really to cloud the fact that women dress like sluts. Women’s groups rage over the slightest comment or supposed injustice as a way to keep their issues in the media, but when a man has his penis chopped off, Sharon Osbourne and her ilk laugh like crazy.

America has become hysterical.

Great article, btw. Another historical / present-day parallel is feminists = the KKK, as a supremacist group.

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doclove January 28, 2012 at 18:07

I will add to what I said in my 2 posts above with some more. In addition to the technology being better to enslave us and the propoganda being better to enslave us, the quality of our lives also enslave us. Not even the richest American man or woman alive in 1860 had as much physical comfort as most of the poorest Americans today. Nor did they have the medical technology and knowledge available to keep them as healthy as most of the poorest Americans do today. This is why people enslave themselves so easily to Socialism and its viscious daughter feminism. Technology has done more to emancipate women from their traditional roles than education, social norms and laws. Technology preceeds education, social norms and laws. Feminism would have never stood a chance if the technology wasn’t here. If you don’t believe me think about the Gutenberg printing press, printed books, electric utilities, refridgeration, microwave ovens etc. If you need living proof go from the USA to Iraq where technology is better in the USA. For as harsh as the scene against feminism is in Iraq, try Afghanistan to see what more harshness against feminism is. The reason is simple. Afghanistan is a much poorer country than Iraq with less and worse technology. If Afghanistanis move to Iraq they dramatically improve their standard of living as much as any Iraqi who moves to the USA. I know because I’m a U.S. Army Veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Check out TFH’s article which confirms what I have stated.
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

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doclove January 28, 2012 at 18:14

We men have enslaved ourselves to erroneous ideas such as feminism because of our technology and propoganda which deludes us as to the true nature of things in too many instances. It is harder to do especially in regards to feminism gone afoul in Iraq than the USA, and it is even harder to do in Afghanistan than Iraq. It is up to us to break the chains that bind us with better and more technology and better education. As American men we can lead the way if we want to true liberty, but we must want it. Above all, we must want true liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 18:16

I’m glad to see Oddsock openly criticize Paul Elam.

Yes, Paul does some good work, but not all of it is above reproach, and with the way people jump out of the woodwork to defend AVFM & its owner, it reminds me very much of the reasons why MGTOW needed to be founded in the first place. (Hint – it was not about the Marriage Strike and swearing off women).

Paul Elam is dedicated to “the cause” for sure. But, Paul has also been a part of the cause for decades and he is still pushing the baby-boomer styled utopia that the MRM has been trying to sell unsuccessfully since the early 1980′s. Ultimately, he believes society can be changed – by force if neccessary – and we can all evolve into loving, caring humans and we will live in our Utopia where the lion where lie with the lamb. This is the Boomer’s wet dream.

After decades in the MRM, I am shocked at how many baby-booomers have not picked up on bio-mechanics and “game” techniques already… that is where all the evidence leads, but it is typical for the boomer generation to be in deep denial about it. It has been brought forth to the MRM since at least Shannon’s “The Predadory Female” which was first published back in 1981, I believe, but boomers have shouted down the idea of game since then until today. It destroys any notion of “Utopia” which they were all promised nearly from birth. Same goes for not understanding the basics about government, although many boomer MRA’s complain about government being the root of all men’s problems, they stand up on their soap box the next moment and advocate for more government involvement via such nonsensical state interventions into the family such as Shared-Parenting… which is, of course, going to vastly increase the power of the government over the family.

At any rate, a few years back, MGTOW needed to be created simply so that people could continue to move forward in seeking knowledge. The few forums and blogs that existed a few years back were horrible. Everyone thought that simply because you started up a forum or website, that you were a “leader” in the MRM. Soon enough, the “leader” status goes to the site owner’s head, and they start to run their Kingdom in a Teapot with an iron fist – so many distinguish them as “leaders” simply for owning a website and publishing a few articles that please the readership of the day. A lot of these “leaders” were several standard deviations beneath the real thinkers and philosophers in the MRM, but did as much as they could to destroy any new thinking that arose because it threatened their position of power within the clique… and so they did as much as possible to undermine anyone who gained status near to them – but their only claim to fame is owning a website… rarely was it for possessing any unique insights into the problems of the day.

Thus, MGTOW was created encouraging men to “go their own way”, start their own blogs where they couldn’t be silenced, speak their own frickin’ minds, and create an “army of one” rather than waiting for Spartacus to arrive and “unite” us.

So, regardless of whether you agree with Oddsock’s assessment of AVFM or not, it is essential that men like him feel free to speak. If men like Oddsock had not spoken up a few years ago and “gone their own way,” we would all still be sitting around at SYG twiddling our thumbs while the forum owner chastises us and deletes our comments for simply relaying pertinent information to other men without backing it with mounds of politically corrected University studies… “so that the MRM didn’t look bad,” of course.

In fact, I view Snark’s immediate Pit-Bull stance against anyone who dares criticize the mighty MRM “leaders,” as far more damaging to the vitality of the MRM in the long run than whether AVFM stays running or not. If it disappears, the MRM will carry on as always.

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Aharon January 28, 2012 at 18:56

Joe,

Thank you for writing this piece. I appreciate it. I agree with you that the psychiatry field is heavily filled with ‘experts’ who have been indoctrinated by feminist ideology (directly or indirectly) therefore freemen need to be careful of relying upon those experts and the grey matter that is in their heads. Fortunately, there are some excellent programs out now (as well as many new and classic books) that can possibly provide a practical program for self-directed personal development. IMO, a weak or morally corrupt indoctrinated therapist is far more dangerous and unhelpful than good quality self-directed books and dvds. FYI, I am not a therapist so I’m not giving anyone professional advice on the matter.

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Joe Zamboni January 28, 2012 at 18:57

Putting the discussion about Paul Elam and A Voice For Men aside — what tools, techniques, methods, books, and other aids are you guys using to accelerate your emancipation from the feminist matrix?

Some of my favorite web sites:
http://www.happybachelorsforum.com
http://www.mgtowforums.com/
http://www.manwomanmyth.com/
http://angryharry.com/

Book: The Predatory Female, by Shannon
http://www.amazon.com/Predatory-Female-Dating-Marriage-Divorce-Industry/dp/0961593806/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327805582&sr=1-1

Book: That Bitch – Protect Yourself Against Women With Malicious Intent, by Sheppard and Cleary
http://www.amazon.com/That-Bitch-Protect-Yourself-Malicious/dp/1901534103/ref=sr_1_16?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327805792&sr=1-16

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 19:08

Also, btw, I have read Dr. P or T or whatever her name is for around a year when she started posting on MND, when Paul was editor there.

I found some insights into what she says, but come on now! This woman is just like a so-con, for Christ’s sakes!

Now we have simply gone to “these screwy women you are dealing with are suffering from bi-polar disorder and borderline personality disorder.”

In other words, Not All Women Are Like That… and furthermore, if you are the kind of fucked-up individual who keeps winding up with these women… the problem lies with you!

It kinda makes us out to be Rhianon for continually ending up with theses kinds of women, seeking out abusive personalities, and eventually the problem lies with “us” not recognizing our Al-Anon status, which is so poop-ular with the psychology-counselling crowd… (to which the vast majority of MRM “leaders” belong, including Paul Elam, Zed & Angry Harry… and that Dr T. or P. or whatever her name is).

No, the good woman doctor tells you to try and realize you are with an abusive, mentally incapacitated person… or, in other words, NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT!!!” (Can you hear me Phyllis Schlafly?)… “Please, oh please, you Men,” pleads the good doctor, “You must keep searching through the pile of turds for your Tootsie-Roll… and I’m the woman who’ll help you find her, because not all women are like that… you are just looking at the wrong ones!”

“Whee! This counseling stuff is easy!” She exclaims.

And, in the words of Oddsock, “Men still don’t feckin’ get it!”

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 19:35

Warren Farrell & Rollo Tomassi can also be added into the “psycho” crowd.

How much is this movement led by quacks with degrees in psychology, anyway?

It seems like almost all the “leaders” have a degree in Quackery.

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Attila January 28, 2012 at 19:37

Find yourself a hobby that doesn’t involve or depend on women in any way – and stay with it. Eventually- you will get absorbed by it and all the other garbage will fall off effortlessly. Also- I would also stay away from artificial stimulants, including pornography, and especially, mangina friends. Dump them if you must —it’s a true inner jihad.

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 19:44

Plus Dr. Helen is a psycho-babbler as well.

Is that not enough psychologists?

“One waits in vain for psychologists to state the limits of their knowledge.” — Noam Chomsky

Really, have a look at Warren Farrell’s council for men and boys. It is all psychologists and people in the media industry… haven’t we learned anything yet? Gee, these people were sooooo good to us in the past.

Feckin’ feck feck!

Feckin’ MRM,

Feck!

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Rebel January 28, 2012 at 19:46

@Jeb:

Well spoken.

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criolle johnny January 28, 2012 at 19:56

As a teacher this was a head-smacker.
I’m beginning to understand why boys are dropping out of school. They saw the parallels between the life of slaves on the plantation and the existence of boys in public schools before I did.
They haven’t been dropping out of public schools … they’ve been catching the Underground Railroad!

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Joe Zamboni January 28, 2012 at 19:58

In response to Jeb’s multiple posts about so many of the leaders in the MRM being psychologists, or some other holier-than-thou experts, I suggest that ultimately each one of us is responsible for our own emancipation. If we have been seduced by one of these experts, and led astray, it is ultimately our own fault. Each one of us has a different definition of emancipation (for example, for me it’s primarily financial, given that I have been economically devastated by two divorces and all that went with them).

If we men keep operating as though our emancipation is our own personal process, if we only buy-into those things which make sense to us, and which feel empowering to us, and throw away the rest, then the MR movement cannot be co-opted. Then it cannot be co-opted because there is no such thing as a “group think” which could be diverted.

As the MRM gets larger there is an increasing danger that it will be partially or completely co-opted, not just by psychologists who are selling books, but by religious leaders who claim they have a new philosophy of marriage, corporations that claim they have the answer (perhaps a special egalitarian romantic vacation), and all sorts of diversionary ploys. How are we going to be sure that we stay on track? At all times, maintain personal control over your own individual emancipation process.

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Aharon January 28, 2012 at 20:00

“Find yourself a hobby that doesn’t involve or depend on women in any way – and stay with it”.

Attila’s words of advice are wise. James Allen wrote in his classic @1906 book ‘As a Man Thinketh’ in his heart so is he. That book was probably the one that kicked off the human development movement of the last century. Yes, I do recommend that book to all men. BTW, I’ve just added in a new hobby: knife and stick self-defense fighting. If my parents were still alive my mother would say of my new hobby that ‘I’m a big disappointment to her as a son, and my dad would grin and say; son, please teach me a few of those fighting moves’.

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Bill January 28, 2012 at 20:02

“Slavery is of course much more sophisticated these days, and it relies primarily on boyhood conditioning, social pressure, plus psychological manipulation, and legal enforcement methods. This is contrasted with old-fashioned methods involving ropes, chains, manacles, and other forms of bondage, as well as beatings, and other physical enforcement methods.”

I would like to point out that a shocking percentage of women routinely engage in both physical sexual abuse of their sons, as well as emotional sexual abuse. This is often the most effective way to break a young boy’s spirit and subject him to a lifetime of pain and shame; in many cases the boy represses all or most of it.

Women who abuse their sons should burn in hell for all eternity, and then some.

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Aharon January 28, 2012 at 20:10

“They haven’t been dropping out of public schools … they’ve been catching the Underground Railroad!”

@criolle johnny

When I read your comment I was reminded of how teen males (usually as soon as they are old enough) flee today’s organized religious institutions that have become so womanized and lack male vigor. In much of mainstream (liberal) churches and synagogues women and girls increasingly outnumber the men and boys. The male and increasingly female clergy plays to the women and mothers. Feminists scholars (oxymoron) say women are more spiritual than men. That is bs. Traditional denominations are often gaining male worshipers who are seeking to develop their spiritual side. If males don’t find spirituality they can relate to they take the underground railroad away.

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Charles Martel January 28, 2012 at 20:46

Oddsock
I am not a very good Buddhist today.

Yeah, but you do like pizza.

The Dalai Lama walks into a pizza joint.

“What’ll you have today, Mr Lama?”

“Make me one with everything.”

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WillPenny January 28, 2012 at 20:57

All you have to do is abolish women from every aspect of your life. Don’t date them, don’t marry them, don’t spend a dime on them, ignore them. Problem solved.

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Rebel January 28, 2012 at 21:04

@Aharon

“Feminists scholars (oxymoron) say women are more spiritual than men.”

In that case, how do they explain that ALL religions and all sects have been “developped” by men?

I think they have absolutely no idea of what spirituality is about: totally clueless. And they are not even ashamed to display their gross ignorance. What a pity!

Also, I am pretty certain that those bigots don’t even know that the Y chromosome is responsible for the evolution of Man.

Those “scholars” are becoming dumber by the day.

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 21:44

Btw, Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) was started up as a response to the idiotic and oppressive measures that Men’s News Daily expressed about five or six year ago.

Of course, at the time, MND was only “protecting” the progress men had made over the past years. As they all were, of course.

Today they are broke and non-existant, mostly because the owner was more concerned about creating revenue than with men becoming educated and fighting back.

Look into the history of the MRM before you criticize its critics.

And for you guys who have broken free from the taboo of “asking for money” – you should doubly be providing what benefits, specifically, you offer for the money requested. The “pass the hat” nonsense in the MRM has become sickening, since in the beginning asking for money was so shunned as to get you black-listed from the movement altogether.

Wanna know why

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 10
Jeb January 28, 2012 at 22:10

What I would really like to see, in the short term, is that people liek snark stop jumping up and attacking any person they see criticizing Paul Elam and AVFM.

Yeah, Paul does his shit. So have thousands of men before him who Paul rarely acknowldeges. He also prortrays himself as an expert while also patheticaly asking guys like Zed what this “Marxism” is all about! How can you trust his evaluation then, if after a few decades in the MRM, he has not even bothered to explore this area and is as stunned about it as Woodrow Wilson himself?

Some “leader.” And some fucking “leader” that dipshits like Snark pop up to defend blindly “just because.”

Go fuck yourselves.

You don’t own the MRM anymore than I do. In fact, you own it even less than me…

So shut the fuck up, and let people criticize the MRM, with its warts and all.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 18
W.F. Price January 28, 2012 at 22:12

And for you guys who have broken free from the taboo of “asking for money” – you should doubly be providing what benefits, specifically, you offer for the money requested. The “pass the hat” nonsense in the MRM has become sickening, since in the beginning asking for money was so shunned as to get you black-listed from the movement altogether.

Wanna know why

-Jeb

Jeb, I ask for money because without it there’s no way I could run the site. I’d be in jail or under a bridge somewhere if I tried to do it without support.

I don’t like to be so explicit about these things, but if you want to know the truth, as a divorced father I’m not so far from there even with it. However, rather than beg, what I try to do is provide good content that’s worth something. Hopefully good enough to help me get by and make a positive difference for men in the process.

One thing I can say with total conviction is that I am significantly cheaper than even your typical receptionist at some feminist outfit. I’ve been doing my taxes, and, believe me, it’s pathetic (but they still take their pound of flesh). Perhaps I have “self-sacrifice syndrome,” but if so I don’t feel too bad about it, because I have a son.

All I can add is THANK YOU to the people who have chipped in. When you live on the edge, it’s enough to bring tears to your eyes when you get a generous contribution. But sometimes that’s how it is to live on your feet instead of your knees, and I don’t think I’m capable of changing at this point — I’m past the point of no return.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 22:13

Charles

Oddsock
I am not a very good Buddhist today.

Yeah, but you do like pizza.

The Dalai Lama walks into a pizza joint.

“What’ll you have today, Mr Lama?”

“Make me one with everything.”

HaHaHa feckin brilliant Charles. my keyboard is now full of coffee.

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 22:18

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Oddsock January 28, 2012 at 22:22

Thanks Jeb

You have the patience of a Saint. I just can’t be arsed trying to get through to the sheeple. You explain things much better than I can.

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 22:28

That’s fair enough, Welmer.

But, the fact still remains, that five years ago, asking for money would have made you a pariah in the MRM… it caused the death of many aspiring MRA’s.

Now you’ve got a different angle, that’s all.

You can’t force me to trust people asking for money after all these years, can you?

But thanks for supporting the people forcing it on me anyway.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 15
Jeb January 28, 2012 at 22:37

@ Welmer,

If you track and follow your web-customers in the least, you will know who I am.

I am not enamored by MRA’s pleading for money… and I have explained this on your site FOR FREE in the past – and I was not some punk you flipped off like Globalman.

You know the score.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 15
Aharon January 28, 2012 at 22:41

Rebel,

Feminists don’t explain it so much as they try to manipulate and creatively rationalize telling the typical silly fairy tales and myths. Women have a terrible tendency, (and sometimes good skills) to divert and not respond to a man’s question or statement with their re-directing the discussion and topic elsewhere. The feminist propaganda of the 1980s so-called worldwide goddess religion female-led egalitarian-society myths has been de-bunked. Feminists do not know what real spirituality or even a shallow religious order is about. Feminists lack the heart to connect with God. However, to be clear to others reading this comment I believe that women, separate from feminists, can be spiritual beings though different from men. The feminists do love to attack the Y chromosome. Without the Y existing, people would still be living in grass huts or caves and going hungry though the walls would probably be all painted with pigment. The dumbing down of the West along with the spread of feminist and PC brainwashing IL-logic is a bitter yet real lesson how human beings are not such free and independent thinking creatures. A society can potentially go from ignorance and barbarism to a civilization of knowledge and wisdom just as quickly as it can reverse itself and digress. It seems that all it takes is a few generations.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
W.F. Price January 28, 2012 at 22:44

That’s fair enough, Welmer.

But, the fact still remains, that five years ago, asking for money would have made you a pariah in the MRM… it caused the death of many aspiring MRA’s.

Now you’ve got a different angle, that’s all.

You can’t force me to trust people asking for money after all these years, can you?

But thanks for supporting the people forcing it on me anyway.

-Jeb

Well, just give me ring whenever you want, Jeb. To be honest, it’s a little disconcerting to see how POd you are, and I’d like to know what’s up.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4
Joe Zamboni January 28, 2012 at 22:56

The discussion track has been hijacked again. A discussion about which web site admin/moderator accepts money, and which doesn’t, isn’t going to emancipate any man.

I for one have made a donation to W.F. Price for his work on The-Spearhead. IMO, he has been doing a great job with this site. I encourage all those who read these words to do the same. If you don’t want to make a donation, for one reason or another, that’s fine too.

In case you didn’t notice, we live in a money-based system (in just about every country in the world). We all are going to have to pay the bills, one way or another. If nobody made any donations, and W.F. Price didn’t get any ad traffic money, I suppose he could go get a regular full time job and shut down this site. I don’t want to see that happen. I voted with my donations. If this site is going to continue to be here, somebody is going to have to put up the money. Maybe a select few don’t have to work, and they can run a site like this as a charitable contribution, but from his posts, it sure seems like W.F. Price is not one of those select few. Like everybody else, he’s got expenses. There’s no shame in that. It’s plain old reality. There’s no legitimate arguing with it.

It looks like it’s time for that registration and moderation of posts that W.F. Price was talking about. Apparently we are touching on enough hot points that we are attracting some significant fire power attempting to divert us from our mission. I suggest that you guys stay on track.

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evilwhitemalempire January 28, 2012 at 23:08

women have no idea of what it means to be forced to be an economic slave and workhorse in America today. Granted, modern American women can choose to play this role, but they can and often do soon thereafter opt out of it; they are not coerced to live it.

***************

Women can play at being men and can stop whenever they choose.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Steven DeLuca January 28, 2012 at 23:17

One of the best articles I have read on issues affecting men and boys.

Years ago I attended an APA convention (American Psychiatric Association) where a woman speaker, lecturing to men and women spoke of self reporting surveys of therapists having sex with clients. Often I have heard women in power, in education or politics or the therapeutic community addressing men and women while a little male bashing is almost always part of the program(ing).

This talk was no different. I don’t remember the exact statistics but this will be close enough. In one study about 2 percent of women and 4 percent of men admitted to sex with clients. The other study was 3 percent of women and 6 percent of men admitted to sex with clients.

She almost completely dropped speaking about the woman who had sex after making the point (how she measured this I don’t know) that women had sex for romantic reasons; bonding with a client or caring too much, … and of course the males were sexual predators taking advantage of vulnerable women just to “get off” – such pigs. One example was of a male fucking his client, telling her she needed sex toys, sold her the same toys, and when her insurance ran out he kicked her out of therapy. And then she reported him, something he evidently didn’t expect to happen although he was a therapist.

One assumes that MOST therapists have enough sense to know that “hell hath no fury like a female scorned” (Call it female ego if you want) and a man with enough insight to be a therapist would not have done this. I said “Is that a composite of all the worst men you have heard of?” and she said “No, it’s typical” And just like Katherine McKinnen(sp) while giving a speech to an Ivy League graduating class told the audience that “right next to you is a daughter that was sexually abused by her father… or a man that beats his wife” … not one fucking guy walked out (Ya, fucking, strong language is needed sometimes to make a point) Little cowardly men having been beaten down since childhood by mom’s and female teachers sitting their in silence while the feminist BIGOT used what should have been a happy day for the students and the mothers and the fathers that paid for the daughter’s education just took it. Not one got up and walked out. Not one man stood up and said “Most child abuse is from women and the child most often injured or killed is her son” “In lesbian relationships there is as much violence as in hetero … I could give other examples.

Men as slave of women. Read “The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar” and then send a copy to any man you know and ask him to pass it on but to share it first with his son.

Mr. Zamboni, if one percent of men had the testosterone, guts and knowledge that you have about gender, then we would not see men struggling, committing suicide, drinking their asses off, spending hours a day watching TV, dying early in life because they don’t value themselves … if more men spoke up as you do, we would see more men being men and not bowing down to bigots that trash men.

sd

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 23:24

Well, just give me ring whenever you want, Jeb. To be honest, it’s a little disconcerting to see how POd you are, and I’d like to know what’s up. — Welmer

Yeah, it is a little disconcerting, Welmer. Especially given that this site was only created to be a “clearing house” to which some of my articles were contriubted to absentia my approval… but I didn’t care because of the general direction of the site… which has now cobviously hanged enormously.

Did I inadvertantly give you permission to “own” my articles?

I sure hope not, because they certainly don’t agree with your premise, and even though several of my articles were published here, I never gave expicit approval for them , and I certainly don’t approve of you having any publishing rights over them whatsoever… which only third parties gave to you. In fact, such conditions were made part of my condition for being published in the first place, if I recall.

Please contact me via my web address so we can correct this error.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 21
WomBats January 28, 2012 at 23:35

“Self Defeating Personality Disorder” is a global epidemic, killing and destroying mens lives. The fine Dr. T. is a one woman liberation army and many owe a great debt to her, myself included.

When womens liberation became feminism I really think they showed their true hand but many of us were too trusting at the time.

Truly our only hope is to stand seperated from women and use our collective voices to the best of our individual abilities.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10
Jeb January 28, 2012 at 23:44

As for running without funding… we’ve all been there. I went through three years of cancer treatments with the kind of “limited” government funding that would make your skin crawl.

I am in no mood for excuses.

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Jeb January 28, 2012 at 23:57

And, furthermore, it is not a good idea to ask for money the weekend before you go to Vancouver, and then blab that you went to a Canucks game, which the vast majority of British Columbians cannot even begin to even imagine to afford at $100 a ticket for a mediocre game.

But you went, after asking money to arrive there. Sorry, I too like going to Vancouver with money in my pocket!

Most of the men here cannot hardly afford to take their children to the fucking park under government supervision!

But, I certainly don’t need to hear how you took your children out for a good time on my dollar.

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WomBats January 29, 2012 at 00:08

Oddsock I find your judgement of Dr. T. Most unfair. She has been ostracized extensively in her field and feminism is not something that prejudices against women directly. She is an ally and is the “wake up” call that brings in many MRA’s myself included.

If we ever slay the ugly sexist beast that is feminism, I hope that Dr. T. is knighted for her part in all this. She has selflessly helped men even when it to her professional detriment.

I find your diagnosis of her to be unfair and cruel and if there is anything Mens rights needs its support from educated enlightened women. Don’t bite the hand that helps so many men up off the floor where society left them….

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 11
Jeb January 29, 2012 at 00:19

Oddsock kicks socks!

Woot woot!

Go Oddsock!

What great news!

Tee hee!

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Jeb January 29, 2012 at 00:24

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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E January 29, 2012 at 00:25

evilwhitemalempire

women have no idea of what it means to be forced to be an economic slave and workhorse in America today.

The idea of women as being “economic slaves” is so outrageously preposterous it cannot be taken seriously. Therefore it makes a good plot line for a sexual fetish website. Folks I’m not making this up. *warning contains nudity*
Chain Gang Girls

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AlphA January 29, 2012 at 01:07

[blockquote]If we ever slay the ugly sexist beast that is feminism, I hope that Dr. T. is knighted for her part in all this.
-WomBat[/blockquote]

As usual, NAWALT. When will you men ever learn?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6
DevilDog January 29, 2012 at 01:21

AVFM, Spearhead, etc., are all good for the movement. We aren’t a hivemind. The only characters and organizations we need to be weary of are the snakes who attempt to infiltrate and undermine.. You all know who these people are, what organizations they belong to..

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j24601 January 29, 2012 at 03:09

Hey, why don’t we all just GOW – go Oddsock’s way; he seems to know what he’s talking about!

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Snark January 29, 2012 at 03:15

@ Jeb

“In fact, I view Snark’s immediate Pit-Bull stance against anyone who dares criticize the mighty MRM “leaders,” as far more damaging to the vitality of the MRM in the long run than whether AVFM stays running or not. If it disappears, the MRM will carry on as always.”

… except I realised halfway through my comment that I had no point to make, but kept writing anyway for the sake of humor.

If that’s pit-bull, I’d hate for you to see me actually get pissed about something. It’s more that I was getting tired of seeing Oddsock bringing up the same old shtick in every thread, multiple times over. It’s not the open criticism of anyone I dispute, it’s that he kept saying the same goddamn thing and it was getting tiresome. It was getting to be like gender-raunch guy. But just like gender-raunch guy, it’s not going to actually make any difference if he just keeps saying the same thing, so I don’t really care.

You are wrong to call Paul Elam a utopian, though. He may be many things, but that he is not.

“Same goes for not understanding the basics about government, although many boomer MRA’s complain about government being the root of all men’s problems, they stand up on their soap box the next moment and advocate for more government involvement via such nonsensical state interventions into the family such as Shared-Parenting… ”

Well, actually this wouldn’t be more government intervention, would it? Government already decides who gets custody, i.e. the mother, and enforces this. If government decided to grant equal custody by default, this would not be more or less intervention: either way, the family courts have too much power, but I know which of the two is preferable.

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Snark January 29, 2012 at 03:23

@ Jeb

lol, just reading through and apparently my single comment which didn’t even have a point pissed you off enough to take another swipe …

“What I would really like to see, in the short term, is that people liek snark stop jumping up and attacking any person they see criticizing Paul Elam and AVFM.”

Oddsock must be free to attack other MRAs!

Other MRAs must not be free to disagree! Or even make inane remarks on the subject!

Dude, get over it. These are words on a forum. Your two angry posts directed at me were posted FOUR HOURS apart. I am amazed that my single inane comment pissed you off so much that you were still angry FOUR HOURS after reading it. I wish I could have this effect on feminists.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2
Snark January 29, 2012 at 03:30

lol @ 3rd post

This just keeps getting better …

“BTW, Snark, I once mildly criticezed Paul Elam, and you accused me of being the “fifth column,” you cocksucker. ”

I don’t recall this, I must admit.

But I am somewhat relieved to find out that this is the source of your rage, and not my single inane comment on this thread.

Actually you know what? I just figured out who you are, and if I’m right, you ARE a fifth columnist. You’re a feminist fraud, trying to derail the men’s movement by displacing our glorious leader!

;)

Now you can be pissed off at me for YEARS!

Seriously Fedders, if I made some throwaway comment years back calling you a fifth columnist, it’s time to move on. I’m sorry that I offended you. I very much doubt anyone took it seriously at the time, or remembers it now.

“Since you’ve been associated with Paul, Snark, I no longer pay attention to you, but I once did.”

No you didn’t. You were always hostile towards me. Though maybe that’s because I called you a fifth columnist. LOL!

Keep on bashin’ those keys, Rob.

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Boxer January 29, 2012 at 21:53

Mah goodness… There certainly is a lot of angst this weekend on the-spearhead. It’s a bit unfortunate, as this is a particularly interesting article. There are a lot of different (multidisciplinary) threads leading to a great conclusion. This is why I love the-spearhead, and I hope this particular author contributes more often.

Will American men live up to the name that scientists gave us (“homo sapiens” – wise and rational man)? It remains to be seen.

Thinking ape is particularly thoughtless, and when one really looks at sexual politics he can see the root cause of the utter contempt women have for men.

Imagine yourself transported to a world inhabited by strong creatures, 12 feet tall, who could snap your neck on a moment’s notice. For whatever reason, they allow themselves to be manipulated into fighting one another while you get to live the high life at their expense. You can have the black and white creatures fighting each other, and can divide the creatures further into “liberal” and “conservative” camps and have them fight among themselves… Then just for fun you can promise to blow two creatures on Friday night and play “let’s you and him fight” for the privilege, skipping out after the carnage while your victims paid for your drinks.

This is basically what happens, from a female point of view, every day on planet earth. We could break free, we just don’t have the mental fortitude to think for ourselves. No wonder they hate us and think of us as their slaves. From their perspective, this is justified.

Regards, Boxer

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Rocco January 29, 2012 at 22:04

@ Boxer

Yes you are correct. Women in the west are very happy with the current situation. And, women the world over want to be like women in the west. No feminist will give up one drop of power willingly.

We shall see how it goes. If we can no longer provide services, how long until our empty cities start looking like a mexican drug war…..oh yeah, they already do….

…..do you know what famous politicians brag about with regard to the middle east? It’s how 10 years before they were struck by the large number of disaffected youth.

Well, as long as a new x box game comes out every week, our young men will be satisfied with bread and circus’s but should the bread or cricus run out?

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Aharon January 29, 2012 at 22:28

Dear Boxer

Many women, female teens, and even some young girls are very proficient at manipulating males. It seems like a fun game to them. I think that culturally the masses of male sheeple are also manipulated and influenced by the alpha males and females, the cultural institutions they control, etc. Men are all Atlas whose burden it is to painfully hold up the heavens or the earth for others mostly women and her children to enjoy. In traditional societies, alpha males ruled and beta males worked, fought for, and paid taxes and homage to them. In some cases, the beta males were then left to marry, have kids, and do whatever if they first obeyed the alphas. In modern society, the alpha’s have given women as a group and especially wives the power of task master over men.

We can thank feminism for bringing the fight out into the open recruiting huge numbers of Marxist-lesbian-separatist street soldiers to oppose and attack ‘men and children’. This leads to an area I think the MM needs to address more frequently: how children are suffering in the short and long term because of feminism. I realize the plight of kids in modern society is written about yet I would like to see more of it. Society and many women care less less about the plight of men unless it goes back full-circle to hurting society and women. Some women do still care about children’s happiness, emotional health, and development even if the kids are not hers.

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Depravo January 30, 2012 at 00:17

The problem with the ever lengthening list of ‘personality disorders’ is that it’s based on an idealised view of human nature that is not even constant but changes as the political and academic sands shift. Look no further than the normalisation of homosexuality and the stigmatising of most characteristic male traits over the last five decades.

The implication is that stripped of all these disorders, most of them rooted in cultural ‘repression’, we would become totally rational actors. And by doing so would fall into lock step with the rest of enlightened society. In other words, it combines the very worst delusions of the Enlightenment and psychoanalysis.

Can something really be called a disorder when it’s an inseparable aspect of the human condition? What ‘upside potential’ beyond possible promotion and likely future service in the Bonus Army motivated the menfolk of entire generations to charge enemy machine gun nests? Something this universal can’t usefully be called a disorder, it’s hardwired into the human race and we have to work with it.

We could eliminate half these disorders overnight if we only acknowledged that most people, male or female, like to have their decisions made for them.

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Rocco January 30, 2012 at 00:36

I’ve given some thought to personality disorders and talked to some experts. Most experts admit they know little about them. They are not allowed to be applied before age 18 and tend to lead to severe life limitations.

The experts I spoke with were doing mri research and seemed to think true “personality disorders” like sociopath’s have a distinctive pattern and may be an organic brain condition. All of us are then formed by our environment of course, but we are dealt a hand and that hand is the hand we have to play.

I would tend to stick to an organic brain condition for personality disorders. What men suffer from is indoctrination….they need to be de-programmed……don’t they have methods for that?

I can think of one, go to Rio.

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Migu January 30, 2012 at 00:37

I find it amusing that men still think they can win the courts over.

The courts will only ever side with themselves. What this means is that if you want to win you have to put the courts themselves on trial. Juries use to do this, so did local authority.

I don’t feel like a history lesson. I’ll leave it with this. Authorities in Ohio use to arrest federal Marshalls who were chasing after fugitive slaves. Juries use to acquit men and women who killed their cheating spouses. Now a jury can be imprisoned if they choose to nullify.

[i]we stab it with our steely knives, but we just can’t kill the beast.[/i ] -Mr. Walsh.

Predators die off without prey. The courts are predators, don’t feed them.

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Migu January 30, 2012 at 02:29

Rocco,

I found a method that worked for me. Took me five years to de-program from the army. It has more to do with merging the indoctrination into a new OS as opposed to clean wipe and re-install.

A functional upgrade so to speak. Haven’t vetted it yet, I’m still getting use to all the updates. It’s been positive though. Finished the update about six months ago. Finished the debug about two months ago.

I found that once indoctrinated you can never get rid of it, but you can control it to your own benefit instead of the indoctrinators benefit.

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Rocco January 30, 2012 at 08:56

Some smart MRA will start a mangina boot camp for the recently divorced.

The primary goal will be to find the testicles of these men, shriveled and nearly vestigial as they may be.

And nurture these so these men grow some balls.

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keyster January 30, 2012 at 09:44

“Yes. A voice for manginas is very apt.
You guys are falling over yourselves to kiss female arse. They know it too and are laughing their tits off at you.”

Dearest Sock:
Had She been a He specializing in helping men, as men…I would have said the same exact thing. But there are no Male professional therapists that do this that I know of. Perhaps Angry Harry, but I don’t think even he specializes in helping troubled men as a therapist.

Oh and FYI, in case you haven’t noticed; had The Spearhead been a Direct Democracy, you’re opinion would have lost the vote of it’s citizens in a landslide. ;)

Perhaps you need to rethink your position?

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W.F. Price January 30, 2012 at 11:33

Yeah, it is a little disconcerting, Welmer. Especially given that this site was only created to be a “clearing house” to which some of my articles were contriubted to absentia my approval… but I didn’t care because of the general direction of the site… which has now cobviously hanged enormously.

Did I inadvertantly give you permission to “own” my articles?

I sure hope not, because they certainly don’t agree with your premise, and even though several of my articles were published here, I never gave expicit approval for them , and I certainly don’t approve of you having any publishing rights over them whatsoever… which only third parties gave to you. In fact, such conditions were made part of my condition for being published in the first place, if I recall.

Please contact me via my web address so we can correct this error.

-Jeb

I already contacted you, Jeb. Haven’t heard back. If anything you wrote was submitted without your approval, simply show me which ones, confirm your ID, and they will be gladly removed.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
keyster January 30, 2012 at 12:29

The very nature of the “Men’s Movement” lends itself to a certian element of misanthropy. These types tend to impede rather than support ANYONE’S efforts; especially if heaven forbid, they might be construed to be a “leader” of some sort.

Ask the erstwhile misanthrope what it is they DO like and their reply will be, “I like that I’m aware of my own dislike, distrust, disgust, contempt or hatred of the human species, especially the female half. And I can’t believe that you don’t see everything the same way I do!”

The Gender-Separatist/Nihilist/Misanthrope doesn’t see the irony in the fact that by participating at all in a Men’s Right’s discussion, they’re defying their own belief system. They want to tear it down, because they want to tear everything down. They see no good in anything, and if the least little stride is made toward progress they’ll seek to destroy it.

Every Social Movement seems to have an element of “irrationals” that it has to contend with. I don’t know what you do about it.

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Harry the Hipster January 30, 2012 at 14:40
American January 30, 2012 at 15:40

Very few underclass males (black and white) from the American matriarchy complain about patriarchy.
It the bureaucratic , academic Gender-Raunch class males in American Quack-ademia who went to good patriarchal schools instead of the matriarchal underclass schools; who complain the most about “Patriarchy”.
These quack-ademics shouldn’t be complaining with their mouths full. Very, Very, Very few males from the un-educated matriarchal underclass ever get even the most basic of educations, to say nothing of getting a state, federal, pork bloater bureaucratic job.
Maybe these quack-ademic males in Academia who complain about patriarchy, are in effect getting rid of any potential competition by “breaking others patriarchies”.

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MaMu1977 January 31, 2012 at 07:54

Dr. T may be in the NAWALT category, but her willingness to (at the very least) *warn* men about the danger signs in dealing with feral women is just as helpful as any MRM site (never mind the fact that she’s one of the few women on the planet who *doesn’t* shame men into taking up another yoke.)

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Bob Smith January 31, 2012 at 08:55

I had a female therapist years ago who actually helped me out a lot. I was stuck in the mindset that my life didn’t really matter, that I had to “suck it up” and bury my feelings, etc. I also have a very dysfunctional mother that made me responsible for her issues, etc.

Anyway, this therapist was very helpful as she got me to realize that my life mattered, my feelings mattered and that I should pay attention to them. This was not something I was raised to understand, as my dysfunctional mother dumped a lot of her crap on me.

I’m glad I had a chance to learn how to take care of myself emotionally when I was in my 20s. I needed to learn that stuff because nobody ever taught it to me when I was growing up. I got all the usual white knight bullshit drummed into my head and it took me a long time to dump it.

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Joe January 31, 2012 at 09:00

@Oddsock

“When she ( Dr T ) starts telling men over the airwaves all the tricks manipulation shitty nature incredibly selfish two faced lying back stabbing bags of shite that women are then I might, just might start believing her. ”

You mean like this excellent article she wrote about “Golden Uterus Complex”?
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/05/17/does-your-wife-or-ex-wife-have-a-golden-uterus-complex-15-characteristics-of-the-golden-uterus/

Non Serviam!

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Common Monster January 31, 2012 at 11:53

Many women, female teens, and even some young girls are very proficient at manipulating males. It seems like a fun game to them.

Aharon, you mean like this one: “Feminism is inclusive of all types, not just those with estrogen as their prominent sex hormone. All humans are welcome in the feminist movement!” – Tiffany Arnold

My nominee for the off-site comment of the week. They’re like the freakin’ Borg, trying to assimilate everything in their path.

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Attila January 31, 2012 at 20:59

I think someone should invent noise-cancelling heaphones that specifically block out the higher-frequency range of the human voice. That would make public spaces currently infected with cellfembot addics a little more liveable. In my case, having a bushy beard and headphones really scares them off anyway.

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Common Monster February 2, 2012 at 09:39

I also wanted to say Depravo has a good point: pathologizing the perfectly normal impulse of a father to defend and protect his children HIMSELF can be a slippery slope to get oneself onto.

In no time they could be “convicting” men of having this “disease” and forcing them onto some drug regimen in the name of “helping” (controlling) them. Like Ritalin is the cure for boyhood, this could turn out to be the cure for fatherhood.

We have to resist the long-standing American tradition of ignoring the structural and political causes of problems which manifest themselves at the individual level.

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Joeb February 3, 2012 at 14:36

Men need to avoid all segments of health and human services , Favorably decisions will always be made on behalf of female to female , Males will need to find alternate methods of health programs .
Banking .
And human relations in any company should also be looked upon as female dominated and decisions will always go the female way .
Iv just had an experience with A Bank a Male to female dispute the female gave the other female a favorable decision based on gender .

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JT` September 26, 2012 at 17:31

I can see a reason this would be hated by feminists it removes the total victim label from women in abusive relationships. It would also explain why some slaves after the civil war chose to remain with their former masters.

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