This article by Rich Lowry over at NRO heaps shame upon the men of the Costa Concordia who allegedly jostled women and children on the way to the lifeboats. While I can relate to the author’s assertion that we as a society have lost something valuable when the strong push aside the weak, for indeed we have, it is but the natural and predictable consequence of decades of equalitarian social engineering that released women from the requirement to behave in a ladylike and chaste manner, and declared men and women absolutely equal and fungible. The author laments the lack of chivalry amongst the men; I assert it is merely what happens when men, having witnessed the liberation of women from their duty to act like ladies, decide that it is quite silly to die like men of auld for unrelated women and children:
[An] Australian mother said of the scene, “We just couldn’t believe it – especially the men, they were worse than the women.”
Another woman passenger agreed, “There were big men, crew members, pushing their way past us to get into the lifeboats.” Yet another, a grandmother, complained, “I was standing by the lifeboats and men, big men, were banging into me and knocking the girls.”
Guys aboard the Costa Concordia apparently made sure the age of chivalry was good and dead by pushing it over and trampling on it in their heedless rush for the exits. The grounded cruise ship has its heroes, of course, just as the Titanic had its cowards. But the discipline of the Titanic’s crew and the self-enforced chivalric ethic that prevailed among its men largely trumped the natural urge toward panicked self-preservation.
I have argued several times on this blog that this is the logical end of equalitarianism and sec-humanism. When women are declared the equals of men, their inherent biological vulnerability is papered over, and they are seen as just another male. Better smelling and better looking, but the same worth as men. And no more worthy of preferential treatment in the mad dash for the exits than the next guy. On the Costa Concordia, it was every human for him/herself. One would think women, the sex for whose benefit feminism tirelessly toils, would be overjoyed at this indicator of equal consideration. At long last, they have arrived! But they are not. Funny how feminist equalitarianism goes out the window when in mortal danger. Seems the two gals quoted above really don’t want to die like men, despite living as an equal to one.
It was also interesting to contrast the tenor of Mr. Lowry’s slightly anachronistic article and that of the vast majority of the comments. While they do not explicitly connect the dots wrt the lady-gentleman dynamic that is part and parcel to chivalry, the comments tended to pin the tail of responsibility for this present state of affairs on the feminist donkey. Thus, as far as the readership to NRO is concerned, there is at least a vague awareness that if chivalry is dead, it wasn’t men that killed it but feminism. And that it is quite presumptuous to demand preferential selection for a lifeboat when you demand equal-or-even-preferential treatment in all other facets of life as well.
Something else, too: Chivalry doesn’t mean preferential treatment for women, although it is frequently cast as such in contemporary culture. Neither is it necessarily manners, although that is a component of it. At its heart, chivalry was/is a code of conduct that sought to shape the behavior of warriors (who also enjoyed a superior social position) so that the strong protected the weak who could/would be harmed by untrammelled violence.
Viewed in this manner, in a way it is not unreasonable to appeal to chivalry when recommending the behavior of the physically strong (men) vis-à-vis the physically weak (women and young children). However, as political and social violence is force just the same as physical violence, given the socially inferior position of men in our society when compared to women, the principles of chivalry would require that women (the strong) yield to men (the weak). Let that bake your noodle for a while…feminism, by socially advantaging women in all aspects of life, and technology, by neutering the historical advantage of brawn, has flipped the script such that we should instead be saying “men and children first” rather than the converse.
I’ll close this post with a poem, supposedly written in 1912, submitted by a commenter to Mr. Lowry’s article:
“Votes for women!”
Was the cry,
Reaching upward to the Sky.
Crashing glass
And flashing eye-
“Votes for Women!”
Was the cry.
“Boats for women!”
Was the Cry.
When the brave
Were come to die.
When the end
Was drawing nigh-
“Boats for women!”
Was the cry.
Indeed. I do wonder how much more time cultural lifeboat feminism has left. For it doesn’t seem sustainable to demand manhood from men while not making a symmetrical demand for womanhood from women. And for far too long, womanhood has been an empty vessel, something one does not strive toward but is simply arrived at. If we are to have manhood once again–something I think our society won’t long survive without–it seems to me that we as a society will need to start demanding something more of womanhood as well. For manhood is the complement to womanhood, and if womanhood is an empty suit skirt, then the organism isn’t wholly complete.
Related:
“Boats and Votes”
“Lifeboat Feminism”
About the author: EW is a well-trained monkey charged with operating heavier-than-air machinery. His interests outside of being an opinionated rabble-rouser are hunting, working out, motorcycling, spending time with his family, and flying. He is a father to three, a husband to one, and is a sometime contributor here at Spearhead. More of his intolerable drivel is available at the blog The Elusive Wapiti.
{ 125 comments… read them below or add one }
Daily mail quote:
“I’d rather be alive than be a man for some good for nothing b@tch.
And in any case, sex and gender we’re told are only social constructs.”
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Essentially, all the whines about the death of Chivalry boil down to the same: Civilization hinges on your disposability!
And when you ask what’s in it for you, you get scorn and shaming for being selfish.
If that’s all I’m going to get, then excuse me but I have a boat to take; and to hell with Civilization really.
And they will continue to whine and cringe, and wring their hands in despair at the death of Chivalry and the lack of real, disposable men; but all will be for naught, because we no longer care.
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It is imperative for men to recognize lifeboat feminism in the workplace, and while parroting Encorpera’s theme song about empowering female co-workers, to secretly endeavor to push over the water cooler and trample the ladies in our stampede for promotions and work/life balance.
Let’s make 2012 the year we push women out of “tech”. Secret handshakes guys. Untied we stand.
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“Better smelling and better looking, but the same worth as men”.
There are some great smelling and hot err sexually pretty feminine women still out there yet increasingly there are also smelly and unkempt, fat, graceless, and crude female Neanderthals stomping around in western society.
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Everytime I think of Fight Club, I think of how prophetic it was. The irony of it was that it was written by a gay man.
The Fire Rises
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Notice in the article Elusive Wapati quotes from, that the two women referred to are referred to by their biological function as Mother and as Grandmother, whereas the amorphous and uncounted men are referred to by their size (Big – all men tend to be bigger than women) and their occupation (Crew member). That fact that they are probably Fathers and and Husbands as well as Sons is quite unnoticed, as is the fact that (presumably) the Mother and the Grandmother are wealthy, pampered and idle.
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“Guys aboard the Costa Concordia apparently made sure the age of chivalry was good and dead…”
No, the “guys” from the Concordia did not kill chivalry – that was killed decades ago by the feminists and their sycophants. Don’t forget the feminist rallying cry: “Women are strong, and powerful, and smart, and feisty!” But is it not the ultimate in hypocrisy when females trumpet their equality, and then suddenly want protection from the “big strong men” when there is the slightest whiff of danger is in the air?
In actuality, females are no more “strong and powerful” etc. etc. ad nauseum today than they were in the Victorian era. Then, they went from the care of their fathers into the care of their husbands. Today, they go from the care of their mothers into the care of government agents and agencies, who help steal men’s hard-earned money to support females in their profilgate lifestyles.
Strong and powerful my ass.
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“Everytime I think of Fight Club, I think of how prophetic it was. The irony of it was that it was written by a gay man.”
Not ironic at all.
Gay men aren’t blinded by the v-goggles.
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I’m somewhat perplexed by the so-cons, and especially the evangelicals, when they speak of chivalry as if were rooted in Biblical teaching when it clearly is not.
For sure, men are admonished to defend those that they love (ie, their families) but deference to others (“love thy neighbor as thyself”) isn’t to be applied by gender – and the misuse of biblical/moral authority, whereby men are compelled to make themselves expendable is nonsense. It’s false and it’s nothing but evil.
Compulsion of men to chivalry (“you will or we’ll shame you, or worse”) robs them the opportunity to show love for humanity when lending a helping hand (“I stay and help by my own volition, out of desire to help anyone I can”).
I’ve heard it mentioned that women are more precious, and men less so, because while a woman may give birth to relatively few, one man may father thousands.
Biologically true, I suppose, but the dumb evangelicals – so eager to prop up the evil of chivalry – will nod their noggins in approval of that notion, seeming to forget that once the great ship slips beneath the waves, and the womenfolk manage to paddle to a desert island, the lone fellow standing will have lots of fornicating to do, to fulfill the worth of all those women.
Fornicating is clearly taught against in the Bible- but they forget that.
Par for the course when you entertain falsehood and contradiction.
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I just made the following comment at the linked page, although I’m not sure it’ll make it past moderation:
—
It’s all rather simple really. When you put it all together, the message men get nowadays from, well, from everyone, boils down to:
“Real men shoulder all the burdens, and we hate you and despise you for it.”
That’s the message from women (not just feminists), white knights, institutionalized misandry, judges and lawmakers, mass media, and all the rest of the lot.
Repeat it enough, and the absolutely unavoidable result is that a significant number of us will answer in a very logical way: “Screw this.” It’s a very straightforward cause-and-effect connection.
You can double down on the shaming and misandry to fan the flames of the next Concordia (as we’ve witnessed not just in the column, but also in the false bravado of the “I’m even bigger than you and I’ll kick your ass” white knights of the comments), or you can try considering whether there is a larger problem at work.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for the second. So bring on the shaming, at the very least it’s entertaining.
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What the members of Team Vagina (and Team Mangina) fail to take into consideration is that masculinity is not a water faucet. To be turned on and off when convenient.
Like many objects in nature masculinity is organic. It grows or shrinks as it is nourished or starved. For the last 40 years masculinity has been systematically and culturally ridiculed, derided, and diminished as an outmoded relic. A violent vestige of past savagery best forgotten and certainly having no role in our burgeoning Feminist Utopia.
The men have gotten the message. They are hanging their boots and spurs up. Reposing in bed, X-Box in-hand, and answering the wails to “Man up” with “Um, no thank you. I think I’ll Girl Up, from now on. See I’ve done the cost/benefit analysis. Masculinity doesn’t pay anymore. It’s far more profitable to act as a girl”.
Team Vagina and Mangina would do well to look upon the behavior of the cruise ship crew as portending the future of Man.
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“I’m somewhat perplexed by the so-cons, and especially the evangelicals, when they speak of chivalry as if were rooted in Biblical teaching when it clearly is not.”
I am too, its as if they didn’t get the memo, Chivalry is Dead.
Mark Styn did something similar in his last book on the MS Estonia; how men just trampled over women; then comparing it to the Titanic where there was so much sacrifice and valor by comparison.
They use this as an example of how weak and cowardly men have become recently. It has nothing to do with that. It’s simple self-preservation. Women are no longer worth sacrificing your life for. They no longer need men; why should a life or death situatiuon be any different? They’re strong and independent.
The death of chivalry was the price paid for feminism, and very few seem to grasp this. There’s a very quiet passive-aggressive resistance to “grrl power” going on. Patriarchy is back!
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1. Women say “I don’t need a man”
2. Women reiterate a thousand times that they don’t need men
3. Men accept this and pledge to leave women be
4. CRISIS!!!
5. Women go nuts because men weren’t there when they needed them
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If the men get on the life boats women complain, if they don’t get on life boats, like in the Titanic, women complain.
Why would any man these days pay attention to a womans complaint.
Excellent essay, thanks for the poem.
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Feminism did away with the final bit of rationale behind including women in the phrase, “Women and children first.” I even read a comment that the feminist insistence on abortion takes the “children” out of it too.
Women cannot have it both ways. If they want equality then they must accept the bad parts with the good.
Shatter the glass ceiling? Only if you’re willing to shatter the glass floor.
Want the same pay as a man? Then be prepared to be as productive as a man.
Want the first seat on the lifeboat? Muscle your way to the front of the line.
THAT is equality.
But modern society is not going to embrace, en masse, the social construct of the aristocracy of Edwardian/Victorian England. Just like the Costa Concordia, that ship has sailed. Two of the most pithy comments following the article EW linked sum it up nicely:
It’s a two-way street. If men are required to be men in the Edwardian/Victorian sense, women must be women in the Edwardian/Victorian sense.
Not going to happen in my lifetime. It wasn’t that good of a deal anyway.
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@Opus: “Notice in the article Elusive Wapati quotes from, that the two women referred to are referred to by their biological function as Mother and as Grandmother”
As someone else noted on a prior thread, there are no quotes from men.
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Since you’re going to be down-voted into oblivion in short order, I’ll take this opportunity to respond right away.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a situation where your ability to perform some complicated task correctly would determine whether you lived to see the next sunrise. Nor do I know if you have ever knowingly and willingly put yourself in mortal danger. I doubt it – but feel free to tell me if I’m wrong.
I have – to both. And a lot of guys here have as well. The opposite of cowardice is bravery. The difference between cowardice and self-preservation is the difference between bravery and self-sacrifice. Who here would YOU willingly die for?
Not in some theoretical sense, but in the visceral, “cold water is creeping up the gangway” sense.
Would you willingly die a watery death for me? Welmer? Oddsock? Rocco? Peter-Allan Nolan? I assume you would not. Does that make you a coward? Again, I assume you would not think it does.
You seem surprised that 40 years of feminism created a generation of men that are willing to treat women as equals on a listing ship. This was as predictable as the sunrise.
I’ll even write you a bit of impromptu poetry to show what a sophisticated gentlemen I am:
Votes for boats.
It’s the trade you made.
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“Lifeboat feminism”!
Says it all, in just two words! Pure genius!
Non serviam!
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I refuse to believe that there were no terrified women attempting to shove past others. I guess it didn’t fit with the news report.
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Votes for boats
It’s the trade you made
Well done!
You made the grade!
Here’s the shovel, there’s the shit
Get stuck in, if you want to eat,
And when the ship’s a sinking?
You best be good at swimming!
Non serviam!
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Anti-quote of the week
“If I had known feminism was going to turn men into cowards, I never would have supported it.”
That is not far from the reality. I bet more and more women see it that way. And that is the best men are going to get from todays women if you are yearning for a woman against feminism.
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The reason for “women and children first” was the assumption that children were the tribe’s future, while women produced more children. So a tribe had to give additional protection to women of fertile years if it wanted to compete with other tribes. Men were expendible insofar as a single male could impregnate a large number of females. (Though the loss of too many males would mean an inability to hunt and fight against other tribes.)
But in these modern days we see women giving up the traditional role of child bearing, and more men being reduced to the role of sperm donor and walking wallet–and also being alienated from their children by the (in)justice system. So the underlying reasons for “women and children first” have gone out the proverbial window.
What else can one expect other than for men to no longer consider females as worthy of sacrificing their own lives?
Women are no longer worth sacrificing your life for. They no longer need men; why should a life or death situation be any different? They’re strong and independent.
How many of those men might have been victims of false charges of raype or DV, or were shut out of a job by affirmative action for females, or were raked over the coals in divorce court? And then there is the non-stop anti-male agitprop on campuses and in the media. Feminists have launched anti-male campaigns for half a century. Now they are getting the blowback.
If I had known feminism was going to turn men into cowards, I never would have supported it.
Au contraire. It takes a lot of bravery for men to defy the double standard which says that the sexes are equal except when it comes to benefiting women, in which case women gain the benefit of traditional chivalry. And if men are “cowards” for going first into the lifeboats, aren’t women cowards for demanding that they get preferential treatment in being saved from a watery fate?
Still, if you want manly men, then next time around just make sure that you have plenty of male feminists and maningas aboard to help you into the lifeboat. If they go down with the ship, well, who cares, they’re only men, right?
Karma in action.
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Lol. I’ve got a paunch. Several years ago I held a door open for some young oriental women. One of them commented in Korean that I looked like I was pregnant. I was about to respond in gutter Korean, but thought better of it. Figured that sooner or later they would mess up at work in front of someone who spoke much better Korean than I did and they would get fired for being rude b*tches.
Ladies, you can’t have it both ways. Either you are delicate or you aren’t. We’re lousy mind readers. You want to struggle going into a building because none of the guys hold the door open for you? Okay, you’ve got it. You want us to hold the door open? Sorry that option flew out the window when one of your ‘sisters’ gave me a dirty look when I held the door for them.
You want full rights? You want to go into combat? Prepare for being maimed or killed. Captured by the bad guys? Prepare to get raped. Women are not men.
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As I was opening a door for a mid-30′s lady, she angrily said: “I can open it myself!”. I replied: “I’m not doing it for you – but for myself, as a class act..” I’m still chivalrous to grateful ones: older people only.
Chivalry got as far as dying on battlefields to protect nation and family. But that was the real profanity and oppression: women were “oppressed” making the bombs, while 750,000 men on both sides died “joyously” in the trenches at the 24-hours battle of Verdun in 1915. White knights died and filled acres of cemeteries, and the returning ones were often humiliated by her wartime lover.
Gestures of chivalry was nobility, bringing the best of the caring nature of men; we shall stay in that spirit and soul, but we shall not give pearls to pigs.
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@ Lara
Feminism caused quite a few women, including you, you fucking cunt, to use their biological sex as a disability when push really comes to shove, as sinking cruise ships clearly illustrate.
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Lara, please explain why a man, any man should look at any woman as deserving of protection? You demand equality and now have it (and in some ways are more equal than the men).
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Don’t feed the troll.
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I hope Lara is the only fatality in another transportation accident, and I do not care what mode of transportation it is. The world would be better off without her.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Why should a women get a lifeboat seat before a man? Is she some type of god??
I think evacuation should be done by age (younger 1st) & they can try to keep families together. If a 40 YO women tries to cut in front of a 25 YO man, I vote to throw her overboard.
Feminist want equality only when it is convenient for them.
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Speaking of holding open doors, I do this for basically everyone, regardless of age or sex. It’s just rude to let a door slam in someone’s face, IMO.
I remember going into a shop behind some very chavvy looking yout’ once. One of them stopped and held the door for me as I followed in. Made me see those lads in a totally different light.
And yes, I did say thanks.
It’s the little gestures that make us human to one another. That’s what is valuable, not chivalry.
Back to the Costa C.
Some of the crew did stay on board to help evacuation. Some were men. A couple of those were British women (entertainers in fact).
Chivalry is dead. Thank fuck.
Men have no obligation to assist women, per se.
That said: Some people will help others, sometimes. Just because of a sense of common humanity / compassion. Some will be men, some will be women. If they help, it’ll be because they choose to. Better not expect that, or feel entitled to it. Maybe show some fucking gratitude if people do help you when the shit hits the fan. The days of men sacrificing for miserable over-entitled assholes are long gone!
Non serviam!
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@Eric26
“I refuse to believe that there were no terrified women attempting to shove past others. I guess it didn’t fit with the news report.”
They do just that A guy from another article posted up this stat it actually pissed me off and brought it home. This was from Aharon.
“Notice that on the Titanic 74% of the women were saved and ONLY 52% of the children followed by a mere 20% of the men!”
Looks like the nurturing “instincts” of women can also be accurately seen as a way of selfpreservation. By surrounding herself with children she insures her own safety. There is no virtue there.
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Watch the first minute and a half of this video, it’s perfect. Daniel Tosh makes fun of a girl who didn’t move out of the way of a foul ball at a baseball game (the media, of course, piled on the boyfriend for not protecting her from the ball. There was an article on the Spearhead about it I think).
He says a few things we say here about chivalry but in a funny way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5uz3RlcYl0
(watch the whole video if you want to see him interview the couple, that’s funny too)
Rich Lowry, from what I remember of him, is your typical modern conservative, blue pills up the ass and politely writing about those “wild and wacky” liberals from his little corner as if it matters. I roll my eyes and pay no attention to these media people anymore, just about everything they say is boring and predictable. I’m still waiting for the truth that you read in comment sections to filter up into the media… still waiting.
Did Lowry scroll down and read any anti-feminist comments? Has he ever read an anti-feminist comment in his life? What happened to his little conservative head when he read it? Did it explode? Do these people live on the same planet as us?
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Consider the source — some ethnic prince/white knight … so much for that.
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How long does it take a feminist to drown once she hits the water?
A LOT LESS THAN A GUY- BECAUSE SHE CAN’T KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT.
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Hahaha, are we sure that Laura isn’t just Uncle Elmer trying to get a rise out of everyone?
If anyone woman could rationally think (a stretch mind you) they’d understand that men owe them nothing and that when they compete with men and use their biology to their advantage in Encorpera, men are going to use thier biological advantage when it comes to life and death situations.
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Hahaha, are we sure that Laura isn’t just Uncle Elmer trying to get a rise out of everyone?
——————————
Opus calls me a cross-dressing elevator-boy and you guys swallow it hook, line and sinker. So much for MRM “solidarity”. It goes a long way towards explaining the actions of the men aboard that ship. Had I been on that cruise they would have probably seen right past the chiffon dress and pegged me from the Adam’s Apple, stubble, and 6’4″ stature to pull me away from the life-boat for their own seat. The cowards.
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“Looks like the nurturing “instincts” of women can also be accurately seen as a way of selfpreservation. By surrounding herself with children she insures her own safety. There is no virtue there.”
@greyghost,
Bingo. You got it. Angry Harry has written a good piece on the Titanic Disaster. Women use children as their passport and magical shield to protect themselves. They do it during ship disasters and in divorce court. OK, to be fair there have been plenty of mothers who have in history risked themselves to save kids or give kids their last meal, usually their own kids. Men are the ones usually sacrificing their lives to save kids unknown to them.
Here is the detailed percentage breakdowns from Angry Harry:
http://www.angryharry.com/images/titanicgraph.jpg
Interestingly, there were three classes of passengers on the Titanic. As a percentage, the Second-class male passengers were the smallest class and sex that was saved at about only 10% of those Second-class men (beta men?). 10%! I don’t want to read too much into this yet it is slightly weird or a stretch of my imagination in that at the MRM sites we often talk about alpha, beta, and omega males (and now many of us the newer zeta males). FYI, slightly less First-class men were saved or survived than third-class children.
To quote Harry:
“Indeed, if women had been truly oppressed and seen to be of low status, then they would have been oppressed right back into their cabins while the men escaped into the lifeboats.”
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OT
Here is the real face of human trafficking, the one you never read about from feminists because the real face of child slavery in the world is male.
Over 100,000 boys are used to make chocolate to make our anglo-women yet fatter.
http://www.laborrights.org/stop-child-labor/cocoa-campaign
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If you want to read about human trafficking- check out the State Department’s report about said business in the state of Israel….it’s alarming. Oh yeah- I forgot they are a “democracy”.
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The theologian Robert Louis Dabney foresaw the consequences of feminism more than a hundred years ago. He observed that it would destroy the moral restraints of society and lead to a situation where might would make right. In that situation, he observed, men would dominate women as never before–with only a small number of women being able to hold their own.
The feminists in their arrogance can’t see this. No matter what, they want to be treated like men. They might reflect on an old saying: Don’t wish for something too much because you just might get it.
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To add on more interesting statistical comparisons of who survived the Titanic:
About 98% of first-class women passengers survived.
About 85% of female crew members survived.
About 45% if third-class women passengers survived.
About 35% of third-class children survived.
About <10% of second-class men survived.
http://www.angryharry.com/images/titanicgraph.jpg
Moral of the story: men boycott cruise ships and stick with small luxury sailboats and all male boat fishing expeditions.
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“Over 100,000 boys are used to make chocolate to make our anglo-women yet fatter.”
Rocco,
Thanks for the link.
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@:Lara,
Think outside the box. Open up your mind and try to picture the future: this sunk ship is just the top of the iceberg. Think of what will happen when shit hits the fan for good…
Are you prepared to fend for yourself?
Things will get rough, you know..and the cavalry has been dismissed..
Killing chivalry was a very good thing for men because it set them free, as you can see clearly now.
For women, dunno…
Ever heard of the boomerang effect?
You will.
And insults will not help you. Bed made.
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’10-year-old charged with murder in (best) friend’s stabbing death’
Another single mother raising a boy with anger issues. Boy unintentionally(?) kills good friend in the heat of what appears to be moment of anger. Now, the lives of two boys and two families are what…destroyed? I don’t know what other word to use.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/18/10185319-10-year-old-charged-with-murder-in-friends-stabbing-death
85% of second-time inmates in for violent crimes were raised by a single parent and that means in about 95+% of cases raised by a mother. Then the feminists blame men for the problems of violence in our society.
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In that National Review article, here is a comment from Laura the non-thinking housefrau demanding that men die to save women :
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/288253/dude-where-s-my-lifeboat-rich-lowry?page=1#comment-453275
She gets off too lightly. We need a Spearhead article slamming her for her misandry.
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Apparantly it is quite a dangerous activity to be launched in a life boat, at least in bad weather conditions. So the crews hardly ever train for it. If it is not absolutely clear that the ship will sink soon, it is better to remain on ship.
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“Die!!! For MEEEEE!!!”
I think they just like to feel flattered. And can’t comprehend or appreciate the loss of human life when it’s male.
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keyster: “Mark Styn did something similar in his last book on the MS Estonia; how men just trampled over women; then comparing it to the Titanic where there was so much sacrifice and valor by comparison.”
What is this? I tried to google “mark styn estonia” and found nothing. If “trampling” is the main reason for the deaths at Estonia it must mostly have happened within the ship, not on deck, since most passengers died within the ship.
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A Google translation from a Swedish site.
This emergency message was sent at 00:23. MS Estonia’s bow visor was dislodged by the pressure of the waves and the ferry rapidly started taking in water. Estonia quickly gained a strong list to starboard. People fell off the walls and broke their arms and legs. Everything went so quickly that there were few people who managed to get up to the deck. The ship’s tilt made it very difficult to climb. Only those who had cabins at the top of the ferry managed to get up on deck. The slope rapidly became so great that the people on board had to run with one foot against the wall and the other on the floor. The Finn Vilho Itäranta managed to get up on deck. Everything went so fast that almost no lifeboat could be launched into the water. Vilho said in an interview:
“I went to the highest point, where the lifeboats were.
As far as I could see no lifeboats were hauled down, at least not on the side ”
Total only 137 of the 989 people on board were saved. This was due to several reasons. Few people could put on their life jackets or come up on deck at all. Most of the few lifeboats that were hauled into the water came in the wrong way and many ended up upside down. The water was 13 degrees Celsius and it was cold and stormy. Many people had not had time to put on clothes, but were almost naked in the lifeboats. It only took about 20 minutes from the time people on board had become aware that the ferry was sinking until it was too late for them to save themselves. Many froze to death in the lifeboats because it took so long before they were rescued. The survivors had been in the water between the hours of 00:30 to 00:45. The first helicopter with five survivors landed on the ship Silja Symphony’s deck at 4.10, but several lifeboats were not picked up until later in the morning. Since many lifeboats were half filled with water, it was therefore very difficult to survive. Many survivors who had managed to board a lifeboat instead froze to death in the lifeboat during the night while waiting for rescue.
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Troll.
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I don’t really think the story here is one of men not letting strangers on lifeboats ahead of themselves, this is natural, survival.
What is interesting is the naked desire of women for the internalization of disposability.
In 1912 the feminists at least had the courage to say….hey we didn’t make the guys die with half full lifeboats, which even then was a lie as it was the crews guns men were more afraid of than the sea.
What fools they were, had they rushed the crew many more lives aboard the Titanic would have been saved as with this ship we have 11 dead due to the “unmanly” behavior of captain and passengers.
This may be one of the keys to the extremely high suicide rates of men in anglo countries.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/boys-cry-male-suicide-dean-windass?newsfeed=true
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What happened on the decks is probably so mixed up that no generalization will suffice. Commentators will use the incident to say whatever they were going to say anyway about men and women.
The pushing and shoving is something stupid and reckless some people did during a crisis. It doesn’t symbolize how men don’t man up, it doesn’t symbolize how men aren’t like they used to be in the handlebar mustache days, it’s not the effect of or or the symbol of any societal trend.
You can’t take the dusty old chivalry bell out of the attic in 2012 and expect men to respond to it as they would have in 1912. But the opposite of women-first isn’t a stampede for the exits, it’s an orderly, first-come-first-served evacuation.
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Here’s a chilling account of what could have happened on this ship….remember, this ship was out far and it was pitch black….the boat was going to list.
Think of what could have happened if we lived as they did in the time of the Titanic:
“Cameron’s film is so 90s and so dated -just like New Labour.
The point about the Titanic evacuation according to Walter Lord in “A Night to Remember”was that Streerage class passengers -men women and children-were not allowed onto the Boat Deck (Second Class promenade deck) at all until all the boats had gone.
He calculates that more First Class men were saved than Third Class (steerage) women.He talks of an eerie silence when all the boats had gone when the ‘first/second class’men left watching them from the rail were suddenly surprised by the noise of hundreds of Third Class passengers bursting onto the empty boat deck from below.
So the chivalry only applied to First and Secomd class passengers -but then it was ever thus. Medieval ‘chivalry’ only applied to those of equal rank -knights on the rampage were quite at liberty to rape peasant girls and pilage peasant households without tarnishing their chivalric code. ”
How civilized our current situation appears to be.
Could all the hot air be more feminist whinning about nothing….oh, and some men smelled like…..men.
How long until:
“Can we have female only life boats?”
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As I was opening a door for a mid-30?s lady, she angrily said: “I can open it myself!”. I replied: “I’m not doing it for you – but for myself, as a class act..” I’m still chivalrous to grateful ones: older people only.
Mr Jlospins
Good comeback – and it is a class act.
Never let them get away with this kind of peurile grandstanding. In my experience, they are too gutless to do this when they are alone. Big-mouthed feminists usually pull this kind of crap for the benefit of their equally pugnacious companions – who look on smirkingly.
This is why my reply is, “I didn’t do it for you. I did it for this guy.” Point to her femsista and walk away looking ‘shocked’ by her presumptuousness.
If she is alone, then chances are there is a guy behind her – point to him. If I’m in a particularly foul mood, I’ll apologise and tell her that I left my White Trash Radar at home and mistook her for someone properly raised. Always smile personably and cherish every golden opportunity to put the verbal boot up their entitled arses.
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And yet
Paraphrasing from the Manipulated man
According to Esther Vilar
Good manners are just another method or means to manipulate men. Most young boys are trained from a very young age to learn good manners, almost always it is a female doing the teaching. It is put to good use by women through the rest of his life. All part and parcel of mans conditioning to respect protect and provide for women.
Watch the male rationalization hamster leap into action now !
Hot debate. What do you think?
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@ andybob
You can’t insult a female. They have been raised to think your inferior in species to them.
Could your dog insult you?
He may get aggressive, then, you put him down.
That’s how a feminist thinks.
So when you insult her it just renforces her conditioning that you are a lout and she a rightous progresive.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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It’s all in the delivery – and the exit. Remain personable and smile. Feign surprise at at their boorish behaviour. You will not be the one who comes across as a lout. I have used this on women many times. They expect you to be angry and flustered. So when you don’t, they don’t know how to handle it. Onlookers laugh at them. Score.
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@ andybob
Trust me, ignore and move on.
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@Lavazza
“What is this? I tried to google “mark styn estonia” and found nothing”
Sorry, Mark Steyn, “After America”…he references the passenger accounts of how “cowardly” the men behaved on the MS Estonia. I’ve loaned the book out so I can’t give you the exact page.
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Many women commenting on the lifeboat thing have been agreeing with us. Check out the comments here on the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/jan/16/costa-concordia-women
Now, some don’t, true, but there’s an actual healthy debate over it. That’s good news.
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The smart men here have called it right. Equality, even supremacy, until the going gets tough, then women first.
I took one of those luxury cruises once. Only once. At one time I needed something done in the office, and waited in line quite a while. Finally, when it was my turn to be waited on, an old hag spending her husband’s life insurance money came racing in, and shoved in front. I could tell the woman at the desk well knew by rights I should be waited on first. But, she was also aware if she did, the hag would raise such a fuss she’d be fired, whereas a man would just wait again. So, the hag got waited on first.
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I find it humorous at the shaming language Lara wields with anger upon men, without acknowledging that men no longer have an obligation to women.
Are women not strong, independent and capable? This article seems to suggest otherwise?
Lara,
Per haps your biggest fear is that your jedi mind-tricks no longer work upon men who can now see the feminist matrix for what it is?
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@ Danger
It’s not Jedi mind tricks, it’s the “Voice” from the breeding experiment plan Bene Gesserit witches in Dune.
Which was an obvious dig against feminists.
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the “Voice” from the breeding experiment plan Bene Gesserit witches in Dune… Which was an obvious dig against feminists.
Wow! I never put Herbert’s work in that context.
That makes a lot of sense…
Boxer
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Lara’s fat, flabby ass could probably be used as floatation.
And even the sharks would be uninterested in that unappealing blob. Ideal.
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I think that female only life-boats would be a very good idea, if only to prevent allegations of Rape and Sexual-Harrassment when and if the Life-Boat is ever picked up!
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I didn’t mention it, because it is so obvious. But, writer Rich Lowry is a mangina white knight idiot, as insane as most American Women.
The feminists made the usual mistakes of extreme radicals. They assumed they could make the changes they wanted in the society, and nothing else would happen. Men would obediently continue to sacrifice their lives for dearies. Then shriek with rage when they find out men don’t continue to sacrifice their lives for dearies.
There were comments on that Lowry article. Some guys said he was 6′ 3″ and 230 pounds and once the kids were aboard, he would be next on the life rafts. Any woman who got in his road was responsible for what happened to her.
Some big shot said he was 6′ 5″ and 238 pounds, and if he saw the other guy act like that, he’d throw him into the ocean. The first guy said when you do I will seek you out on land by other means.
Big shot is the one who is reverting to the stone ages. That is the way primitive matriarchies work. The biggest and strongest men do what they want to do.
http://www.talkguests.com/ibdreviews_articles.htm
Read what happens once the small, weak guys have had enough. Always.
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>>ara January 19, 2012 at 11:08
>> It is so much easier for me to act like a lady around my own men. They appreciate our particular brand of femininity.
Leopards do not change their spots. If you don’t act like a lady on this board, and you do not, you don’t act like a lady around your own family, either.
Likewise, their failure to toss you out the window does not mean they appreciate your unladylike conduct.
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I wonder how many of those men pushing women aside to get on life boats were trying to escape their wife vs escape the sinking boat
If men really where pushing women aside, that is.
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IMO this contradiction in feminsm is another fissure in the foundation of the movement exposing to all of us that it’s built on a false foundation. Of course feminism is conditional it’s a function of our excessive monetary system, which (for a time) literally made dreams come true. But, as the system buckles and incidents like this occur attention will increasingly be given to inconsistencies of the status quo. feminism is part of the old order, we are just at the very beginning of a massive mean reversion in everything from our credit to our social systems.
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The most important thing about the old “code of chivalry” was that it was enforced by men, not by women as neo-faux-chivalry is nowadays.
Good meme exploder.
What you’re proposing equates to women enforcing the new improved chivalry against other women, which I have my doubts about ever happening in significant numbers. Team Woman, and all that.
About fifteen years ago, before blogs, one of the few men’s sites was Per’s MANifesto. It was kindofa monthly newsletter and report, on the I-Net.
He regularly used the phrase “there are no feminists when the lifeboats are lowered”. So… “lifeboat feminism” is technically an oxymoron, an impossibility, a contradiction in terms.
But I’ve still added it to my complete list of the varieties of feminism — currently numbering 154, and still counting. Thx.
And an R.I.P. to those who didn’t make it to shore.
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Read what happens once the small, weak guys have had enough. Always.
G. Gordon Liddy once said a big guy will beat you pretty badly. A little guy will kill you. Little guys have nothing to lose.
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“Some of the men commenting in the Guardian article are saying they would prioritize their women and children first, but not those of other men. It sounds like it almost is an ethnic or racial thing. How does that mindset square with the frequent MRM assertion that all men, regardless of race, color or creed are in this together?”
Not responding to Lara, but for the sake of anyone who read this and thought there may be some truth in it: the men commenting at the Guardian are referring to their own families when they say they would prioritize “their” women and children first. Not their ethnic groups.
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I love the assumption that all the people on the Costa Concordia were from the same country/culture.
Anyone who has queued for a bus and then been surprised how other nationals don’t – but when the bus arrives it’s everyone for themselves – well they would get it.
There is an underlying racism in many of the views expressed in English from passengers which are very flawed – and nothing to do with gender.
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Once again a MAN steps up:
Violinist saved children before dying in Concordia cruise ship
disasterhttp://www.thestar.com/news/article/1118205–violinist-saved-children-before-dying-in-concordia-cruise-ship-disaster?bn=1
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Sorry wrong link above.
Right one:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1118205–violinist-saved-children-before-dying-in-concordia-cruise-ship-disaster?bn=1
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And here we have the beginning of mature and level headed analysis….I guess the female reporters got side tracked by a Kardashian event….
…we have a mariner and maritime attorney.
If he didn’t throw someone off a life boat he didn’t do anything illegal. And, all the hero’s he quotes are dead.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/19/costa-concordia-disaster-and-lessons-from-two-williams/
It all comes down to whether you have self esteme have been convinced your disposable at a whim.
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As I was opening a door for a mid-30?s lady, she angrily said: “I can open it myself!”. I replied: “I’m not doing it for you – but for myself, as a class act..” I’m still chivalrous to grateful ones: older people only.
Mr Jlospins
Andybob: I am afraid you are not going to like my response when a co-op student at my place of employment fresh from her morning wimmins studies class at the University of Ottawa appeared at work in the afternoon and walked in behind me as I held the door not looking at who was behind me.
This misandrist in training with the ooze of derision emanating from every pore says and I quote “I am perfectly capable of holding my own door” to which my response was “I did not doubt that you could. I was just been polite unlike you. Her immediate response was “Fuck You” to which I replied “great come back did they teach you that at your socialist indoctrination centre the U of O. Your tuition fees have taught you well.
It was a good day. Fortunately there were others who witnessed and stifled laughter at the little coont in case she decided to file harassment charges.
Never saw her again. As I said it was a fist pump kind of day.
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@ Lara January 18, 2012 at 18:08
I’m piling on a little late, dearie. But I just wanted to say -
If you want to be treated like a lady, then best start acting like one.
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Well! I can hardly wait for my next tropical cruise, after this thread. I won’t have to worry about “Women And Children First,” because it’ll be just me and Bossa Nova (my sailboat).
Just one rule on Bossa Nova: Piss off the captain and you walk the plank.
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“I am perfectly capable of holding my own door” to which my response was “I did not doubt that you could. I was just been polite unlike you. Her immediate response was “Fuck You” to which I replied … ”
1. Fuck you too, Madam.
2. Is that an invitation?
3. Is that an invitation or a threat?
4. I’d prefer not; I’m of delicate sensibilities. (Best if you’re built like a brick shithouse).
5. Only on Thursdays. (Choose another day if it happens to be Thursday).
6. You’ll need to make an appointment.
7. You don’t have my consent for that.
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Lara January 18, 2012 at 17:14
“If I had known feminism was going to turn men into cowards, I never would have supported it.”
That really hurts – coming from a woman. In any emergency anywhere it is always men who step up to the plate. Women just sit around and bitch at their own fuck-ups.
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Sheesh, make up yer minds wimminz.
Ekwaltee… or No?
Or… when it suits you.
We already know that.
Ergo… Go Your Way.
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Ever have a woman push in front of you and when questioned, reply, “Ladies first”? As if someone letting you go first is the same as pushing in front of them. Another example: went to a dance and instead of waiting for me to spin her around, she spun herself – hitting me in the nose with my own arm. Some of them even try to lead now – and don’t even know they’re doing it, or so they say.
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I said, earlier, that I thought that giving up seats for women on life-boats was hard-wired. To explain: Men like taking risks in front of women; playing chicken; engaging in extreme sports. Provided the man survives he will be very attractive to young women; that is the motivation for the risk. The situation on sinking cruise-liners brings these characteristics to the fore, but men fail to consciously grasp that they have no chance, and that, the chances of success are so stacked against them that their efforts are a form of suicide.
Resources are finite and thus Feminism is, ultimately, merely rearranging the deck-chairs on the deck of The Titanic. Women create nothing; they merely consume male effort.
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Not to draw away from the ultimate point of the piece, but have you noticed this overall as well, and I don’t mean as just a men/women issue? We have spent a whole lot of time and energy in making sure our kids are polite and do things like hold the door for the person behind them, or give up their seat for an elderly person on the bus, or don’t push or shove kids smaller than you – but throughout their childhoods I haven’t seen that same effort extended by the parents of most children we’ve interacted with. It’s gotten to a point where I can’t let my son have over friends from school because whether they are male or female children they are some of the most ill mannered little hooligans you’ll ever see (talking back, ignoring, no please or thank you, etc). I guess my point is, I think that although some of this behavior may be a backlash from the poor treatment of males, I think much of it really stems from becoming more apathetic as a society and lack of teaching children the fundamentals of just being good people, imho.
I never understood “chivalry” anyway – wouldn’t it be better to expect that we should all be good to each other without a person’s private parts having a bearing on the situation?
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Fuck you very much too, Ma’am.
or just grin and wish her a nice day in the most sarcastic tone you can muster.
I remember offering a woman with a child and stroller to carry said child standing in front of some stairs at the metro. I had the sheer audacity to ask her “do you need a hand” (I was talking German I’m translating loosely). She went on a tirade that she doesn’t need me to help her and that I’m just trying to get into her pants (I didn’t, single moms repulse me). After she was done wiping the spittle from her face after this great tirade I bid her a fine day and proceeded up the stairs.
I admit I was fuming at how low society has sunk if you can’t offer a fellow human being some relief. Then I thought to myself, “let’s watch her take care of herself”. So I stood at the top of the staircase, grinning at her as she was hauling stroller and child slowly up the stairs, her face getting redder with every step. When she reached the top, I as the chivalrous man I am, applauded her.
Moral of the story: I don’t offer women under 60 any help anymore.
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Wow I fucked up that story. I was offering to carry the stroller up the stairs. No commenting while drunk, lesson learned.
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Gotta love the guys over there saying they would let the women and children board first.
With how easily they rationalize a decision that they’ll 99.999999999999999999998% likely never have to make, it’s pretty clear that the feminization of the western male is almost totally complete. This same process (known as the rationalization hamster) is coincidentally how women wash away the guilt they have the morning after fucking a guy (no condom) just two hours after meeting him.
Do I love women? Yes. Am I giving my spot on the lifeboat of a sinking ship to some broad I don’t even know just because she has a vagina? You kidding me!? I love women, but I like life more.
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Women are equal in theory only, not in practice.
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One day at the Whole Foods—a power fembot scooted by me as I was standing in a narrow aisle- and grazed my pants. When I reacted (what the hell do you think you are doing?), she went into victim mode while gasping for air (I, I, I was going to apologize to you….gasp….FUCK YOU!), to which I replied (Lady, Go Fuck Yoursef!). Then she grabbed the shopping cart and sped off (probably had
to take a conference call at the dairy aisle). Whole Foods seems to attract both a-hole men and c-hole women, for some reason. I’ll tell the story about the encounter with a Jewisch Culture Vulture on another occasion.
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Has anyone looked at the gender mix of those who died on the Costa Concorida?
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From the original article this comment is gold!
“Hey fishes – I guess you needed those bicycles after all!”
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Women= amoebas, except smarter
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http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3144/3115101701_a436252c91_z.jpg
This is the t-shirts the crew could have been wearing because because as you all know wimminz are perfectly capable of looking after themselves and they need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
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Rocco 2nd class male passengers had the lowest survival percentage.
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Women have no duty to be chaste and ladylike, men have no duty to be chivalrous and gentlemanly… all women lie and think with their crotches as a birthright now (who needs to better one’s self when there’s the Rationalization Hamster?) so why should men give a crap about them any more?
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I can’t believe that there are people who despise men so much that they actually believe that it is the duty of men to die so that women can live. Equality is not some modern invention of feminists (though the feminists are right); it is how we all should be treated, INCLUDING WHEN IT BENEFITS MEN. In a crisis, every able-bodied man and women should be helping their fellow human beings. A man’s life is worth no less than a woman’s life; it’s a sin that I should have to explain this to you.
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Prediction – woman sues life-saver for sexual harassment.
“He touched my ass when he pulled me out of the water”.
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Lara-
I’d gladly take the last spot in the lifeboat ahead of you.
I’ll light a candle in memory of your sacrifice each year, remaining aboard so that I might live.
Down to Davy Jones’ locker, you brave, brave girl.
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By the way, Lara (may I call you “sharkbait”, btw?)
There are plenty of women I would drown to preserve their life4.
You are not on that list. That’s not cowardice, oh worthless one.
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Calling today’s men “cowards” for valuing women generally less now than in the past implies if men only found the courage they might protect “what’s theirs,” “precious womanhood,” etc. But even couch potato men will fight as best they can for women truly dear to them. In pre-diverse, pre-feminist, pre-destroyed marriage times, women a man didn’t know still had much in common with his wife, mother, sister or daughter, so empathy would have come easier. Even the polyglot white passengers and crew of the Titanic abided by Western/Christian values of the day. That ship has sailed.
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Let me add:
Supposing one of the women trying to get on a lifeboat was Crystal Gail Mangum, the female who lied about being raped and tried to railroad the Duke U lacrosse players into jail.
Does anyone here — man or woman — think that any guy should give up his place for her? Or even help her into a lifeboat?
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One more thing: be interesting to see how many women kept their cool and tried to restore order to the situation. And then compare it with the number of men. For example, how many self-proclaimed feminist women chose to take their place in line for a lifeboat as opposed to elbowing aside a man. And how many “male” feminists were faced with a moral dilemma of letting women go first (which would be oh horrors!) acting according to traditional male roles, or as the ship went down, lectured other men on equal access to lifeboats for both men and women.
After all, “gender is a construct,” right?
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http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/captain-coward-behold-our-brave-new-sexually-emancipated-world/
Someone who gets it.
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most women are cowards.
they talk a big talk….. but when it comes to putting there money were there mouth is…. they cant and wont do it.
“women are eqaul to men…. we are just as strong if not stronger”
“HELP….. im a women…. im to weak….give me special treatment!”
………….
“women are just a strong as men!”
“we need to lower the standerds for female fire fighters!”
………….
“Women are worth just as much as a man!, if not more”
” why do the girls need to take out the trash at my job?, the guys should do it!”
……………………..
“women should be treated as eqauls!”
“the ship is sinking…. please give me special treatment and let me on the life boat first!”
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how many women offerd to give there seats to the more productive and useful men?
you would think since men tend to be more productive, we should get in the life boat first.
we have enough women to make babys, but we need more men to invent stuff.
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i think it makes sense to say women are much more expendable then men.
men are far more productive, in general…. we do much more with our lives…. in general.
we have enough women to have babys….. but men are the ones who tend to move our world foward.
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