Equality, Feminism and the MRM in Finland

by Featured Guest on December 2, 2011

By Henry Laasanen

In this article I will describe the state of equality politics, equality discussions and the MRM in Finland. Some of it may come as a surprise to readers.

I am a 45-year old author who wrote “Female sexual power” (2008, Finnish only!), and I am currently writing a dissertation titled: “Men and equality: Why don’t men’s problems become equality problems?“. I am also the leading MRA and mating market blogger in Finland, having written hundreds of articles about (economic) theory of mating markets and men’s equality.

I have read (and link in my blogs) English-language manosphere sites for years: The Spearhead, Roissy, Susan Walsh, Dalrock etc. I have also read a big pile of men’s right’s literature, including Warren Farrell of course, scientific articles and various other writings.

Finnish “state feminism”

An easy way to describe equality politics in Finland is “state feminism”. In state feminism feminists work together with the state to promote feminist goals. A feminist state worker is called a “femocrat”. Feminists hold every important position in Finnish equality politics.

- Finnish political parties have mandatory “women’s organisations” with their own funding. Those organisations work for the same feminist goals (left and right wing parties together).

- In the equality unit there are 16 women (all feminists) and zero men. That unit is responsible for planning Finnish gender equality mandates.

- We have seven women’s studies departments, but no funding for masculist men’s studies.

State feminism is not a radical ideology. It represents “mainstream feminism”. Feminists in Finland hold absolute hegemony in equality politics, and that’s why they have no reason to shout out loud. That’s why we have no “Amanda Marcotte” of Finland.

Official goals of state “mainstream” feminism are the usual: 1) wage equality, 2) stopping violence against women, 3) promotion of women’s careers, 4) ending the workplace segregation, 5) criminalize buying of sex, and 6) to promote gender neutral childcare and education. Father’s rights (to have more time with children) are also promoted, but with “hidden” real agenda to promote women’s position in the workplace.

We have a very short history of MRM in Finland!

You may be surprised to know that the first real MRM book in Finland “Men without equality” was published as recently as 2007. In 2009 came Pasi Malmi’s masculist dissertation “Discrimination Against Men: Appearance and Causes in the Context of a Modern Welfare State“. The first masculist men’s organisation was started in the year 2009. That’s the short history of the MRM in Finland!

In the USA MRM literature has been quite popular since 1970. Lots of book’s, masculist men’s organizations and heated up debate. In the Finland feminists have dominated the production of equality between 1970 to 2000. In that time nearly everybody in Finland believed (men included) that feminism = equality. There were no competing ideas of equality.

Around the year 2000 MRM discussion started to become somewhat stronger online, and in 2006 I wrote my Master thesis in sociology: “Female sexual power: a critique of the feminist equality paradigm“. After that MRM voices have become stronger on the internet.

We have no critical discussions of feminism and equality in the Media!

Here in Finland we have thing called “konsensus”-politics, the idea of wide agreement on one principle, which originates from phenomenon called “finlandisierung”. With Russia as our neighbor, nothing negative was allowed to be said about Russia (in the past). That same “konsensus”-principle took hold of other areas of life as well. Here in Finland we have only one truth at a time, and for equality the “truth” is feminism.

In the USA you may grind teeth with radical “feminazi” writings. We have no feminazis (maybe one or two), which is – paradoxically – a catastrophe for the Finnish MRM: there are no critical discussions of equlity in the media, only feminist propaganda.

When you have absolute hegemony, you cannot win with critical discussions. That’s why feminists don’t participate in any public equality discussions in Finland (they only discuss with each other). There are no feminist blogs (one inactive) or feminist columnists (other than official propaganda) in Finland. In the British newspapers Guardian and Daily Mail there are gender debates every week – we have no gender debates, because feminism holds the absolute “truth”.

I (and the fellow MRAs) totally dominate the Finnish internet discussions regarding equality and feminism. There is no opposition in the internet, no feminists to leave comments in MRA blogs or forum writings. Sadly for the Finnish MRM, internet writings are just words without real power to influence equality politics. Media is to blame for the big part. Finnish media publishes only feminist propaganda and it ignores MRM critique.

MRAs struggle hard to get discussions going in the Finland. Our efforts have been futile – state feminism combined with the “konsensus” atmosphere is too strong. Even Sweden has more public equality discussions than Finland (thanks to Per Ström and Pelle Billing).

I will answer additional question about Finnish equality politics and MRM in the comment section.

{ 166 comments… read them below or add one }

Uncle Elmer December 2, 2011 at 10:36

How do you say “Encorpera” in Finnish?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10
Will December 2, 2011 at 10:53

Wasn’t Finland occupied by the Nazis during WW2? Start referring to the feminists and equality mongers in Finland as Nazis and you’ll get everyone’s attention. What MRA in the West hasn’t learned yet is that you have to play dirty in order to win the propoganda war. Facts and greivances should only be aired AFTER people are willing to respect and listen to you. That’s why MRA in the West is impotent, they refuse to treat the feminists as an unreasonable enemy who needs to be attacked into submission, instead of treating them as reasonable opponents.

Propoganda first, then reason.

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sestamibi December 2, 2011 at 11:07

I can’t help but wonder, what is Finland’s TFR?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
Nico December 2, 2011 at 11:12

Thanks for this interesting article.

You write feminists benefit from a “konsensus”.

But the feminist social policies inevitably lead to the break-down of the family, the drop of birth rates, the rise of criminal behaviour among teenagers.

I am surprised you don’t have vocal conservatives, at least isolated ones, with access to the mainstream medias, who will criticize this.

Your feminists don’t look “feminist” to me. In every country I read about, you seem to find bigoted feminists who are simply too arrogant and self-entitled to shut the fuck up. They enjoy to bask in the spotlight.

How do you explain that Finnish feminists seem to be incomparably smarter than American, French or British ones?

The only finnish woman I know is this one (she is half French I’ve heard)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=658vZOq14jc&feature=related

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
Opus December 2, 2011 at 11:23

Am I correct in thinking, that the suicide rate in Finland is rather high – seem to recall reading that once? I once slept with a Finn (better make that 1.5, though the half Finn was more cheerful) and a more miserable person I can barely imagine.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3
Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 11:35

Nico: “I am surprised you don’t have vocal conservatives, at least isolated ones, with access to the mainstream medias, who will criticize this.”

Yes, we don’t have vocal conservatives. We don’t even haven’t got any conservative or (far) right wing newspapers. Every Major newspaper in Finland is ideologically green-liberal-feminist.

Social or gender conservatism is a swear word in Finland.

We have new political party on the rise (20 %): “The Finns”. They are mostly conservatives, but one of their main agenda is anti-immigration. They try to avoid the label of “misogynist” as hard they can. So they say nothing negative about feminism, because it would not be beneficial to their other main goals. They hate feminism, but they keep their silence.

Nico: “How do you explain that Finnish feminists seem to be incomparably smarter than American, French or British ones?”

As long as you stay silent, you appear to be smart. :-)

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Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 11:39

Opus: “Am I correct in thinking, that the suicide rate in Finland is rather high”

Yes, especial men’s suicide rates are very high.

You should take a look at Humon comics to understand finnish mentality :-)

http://humoncomics.com/gallery/finland

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Mike Diver December 2, 2011 at 11:53

Finnland was not occupied by Nazi Germany. They were allies of the Nazis due to being the common enemy of the USSR. Prior to WWII the USSR invaded Finnland got it’s butt kicked. This encouraged Hitler to think USSR would be a walk over. After losing to the Finns Stalin started to get the military back in shape. Finnland then got screwed (had territory with valuable mineral resources taken) when the Allies (USSR/USA/UK) beat hitler.

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Mie vaan December 2, 2011 at 11:53

If you ask a fellow Finn (me), the picture Henry paints is perhaps a bit too gloomy. In my opinion:
-feminists are pretty uniformly disliked or even despised
-feminists doesn’t have much real power
-almost all politicians avoid feminist discourse
-feminist articles in the media, especially the aggressive ones, are rare

The area the feminists are free to roam is small and getting smaller. For example, there are few “Feminist laws” and the few attempts to pass more have been futile. Sweden or even the USA are in this respect much, much worse — pretty much the way Henry describes.

But only finding differences without explaining them is boring. Henry does a reasonably good job explaining something about System, given the short space he uses.

Consensus is, indeed, probably the key. If somebody is rocking the boat we have this tradition of integrating them in to the System. That happens by giving them power or, at least an illusion of it. Perhaps we actually give them just a sandbox to play in. Anyway, with power comes responsibility. And with responsibility comes silence or, to be more precise, official reports, ombuds(wo)men, confrences, and what ever it takes to kill loud and aggressive radicalism.

That’s what we did with the Communists and that’s what seems to be happening to the Feminists.

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Opus December 2, 2011 at 11:57

@Henry Laasanen

Sorry, that Finish Humour is lost on me (just like my jokes are lost on the Americans).

Would you care to say anything about Finnish music, and how do you account for its success. You have a reputation for some pretty good composers these days: Einjaro Rautavaro, Sallinen, Kalevi Aho, Magnus Lindberg, Essa Peka Salonen, but the one girl Kaaji Saariaho is I find somewhat derivative and unconvicing (please excuse the bad spelling). Come to think of it, Sibelius is also pretty gloomy.

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Mie vaan December 2, 2011 at 12:02

Opus: “Am I correct in thinking, that the suicide rate in Finland is rather high”

Something like in Alaska or Minnesota. Perhaps it has to do with light. Or lack of it, rather.

Anyway, the Finns are among the happiest peoples according to several international surveys. On the other hand, it’s hard to find any Finn who believes that.

But what this self-hating nation can’t deny is that Newsweek ranked Finland the best country in the world last summer. Feminists or no feminists.

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Hemmo M December 2, 2011 at 12:05

Wasn’t Finland occupied by the Nazis during WW2?

No, we fought against USSR, who attacked Finland over and over again, but they never won that fight. We lost some land because of wars. We are small country and USSR was really big and they still couldnt beat us.

We really didnt have nothing but bad choices and Germany, Sweden, Estonia did help us, just a little bit war against USSR

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beta_plus December 2, 2011 at 12:14

Thanks for posting this. As a half dane who grew up in America, it is very refreshing to see criticism of the Nordic feminist welfare states and that they are not the paradise many claim.

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Szebran December 2, 2011 at 12:27

Sounds like feminists play the same role in Finland that Communists played in Russia.
“there are no critical discussions of equlity in the media, only feminist propaganda.”
For the most part, the same is true here in the US. ABCNews, MSNBC, Newsweek, Time etc – all feminist propaganda machines.
However, the internet has now reached a point in development where the media can be bypassed.

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Boxer December 2, 2011 at 12:29

Henry:

Many thanks for this interesting article. A minor point addressing something Opus brought up: I lost my virginity to a Finnish exchange student at age 16. She was one of the least miserable people I know (we still keep in touch) and was, in the context hindsight provides, absolute sexual dynamite.

Part of the great chasm that divides you from us is language. Your first blew in from the far east, something like 2000 years ago. Indo-Europids and Uralics probably had a common linguistic ancestor, but the temporal separation is too great to effectively translate subtleties. This is despite y’all’s (the second person plural with the subjective genitive case ending — the only English case) proclivity for language. You (plural, but proper) speak much better English than the average Canadian, and you speak much better Swedish than we manage French or Spanish. Things like jokes, or gender studies, certainly get lost on us, which is why it’s so nice to have a patient translator: yourself, in this case.

Regards, Boxer

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 7
Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 12:37

One major fuction of the welfare state is to move money from men to women. It happens “silently”, so many men don’t recognize it.

Men pay majority of healthcare costs, but 60 % more funds are used for the healthcare of women than for men.

You can find two studies from Denmark…

http://fty.sagepub.com/content/9/2/207.abstract

http://www.springerlink.com/content/r230850076278115/

…to tell you, that men are big net payers of the welfare state and women get the benefits.

Same is true for Finland and Sweden as well.

Feminists in welfare states don’t do anything radical, but behind the curtains they run the things to benefit women.

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Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 12:45

Szebran: “Sounds like feminists play the same role in Finland that Communists played in Russia.”

Yes, but feminist do it with legality and by the help of “unholy alliance” with modern conservatives, who like the idea of helping the “weaker sex” more than speaking against unwanted effects of feminism.

Szebran: “For the most part, the same is true here in the US. ABCNews, MSNBC, Newsweek, Time etc – all feminist propaganda machines.”

True, but you have have some loudmouth conservatives to speak agains feminism (or have you?). We don’t have any conservative or right wing media.

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Boxer December 2, 2011 at 13:40

Hey Henry:

True, but you have have some loudmouth conservatives to speak agains feminism (or have you?). We don’t have any conservative or right wing media.

Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are. The Conservatives are all about shaming men into paying more taxes for women, criticising men for the divorce rate (and other things that women do – the ABA stats prove that women file for the overwhelming number of divorces) and other nonsense. The Conservative Party in Canada and the Republican Party in the USA are the women’s party, despite the “antifeminist” trappings.

Basically they claim to be anti-feminist, and tickle men’s ear with meaningless propaganda and sloganeering, but when it comes time to vote, they are always first and loudest to give women whatever they want, and any dissent will cause them to blame all the world’s problems on men.

This is most obvious in practice. Most of my ultraliberal friends, in North America, do not see anything wrong with me not having a girlfriend, living alone, and playing the field without any commitments. I don’t have any conservative friends, outside a couple of gay guys who are very moderate, because the conservatives here think guys like me who do not enslave themselves to some naggy bitch are “childish” and “immature”. The conservatives in North America are only antifeminist on the surface. In reality, they vote and act strongly against men’s issues and are first to condemn people who do not get married and divorced multiple times as the very antithesis of civilization.

The best recent example was spotlighted right here on the spearhead. Check out conservative republican Bill Bennett as he bashes men for not enslaving themselves to skanks and doing the bidding of a nasty ho.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/04/opinion/bennett-men-in-trouble/index.html

Regards, Boxer

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ray December 2, 2011 at 13:41

What I find incredible is that there seems to be no discussion whatsoever about the finnish system. What, for example, about “equality” matters like conscription?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
thesecond December 2, 2011 at 14:27

I know that in a lot of places in the US, UK, western places, it’s poison for a woman saying she’s a feminist. Men and women have extremely negative views about feminists and if a woman talks about that on a date then guys will reject her. The few who actively pursue her will see her more as a trophy (I’m dating a feminist, look at how politically correct I am) and will actively dump her if she gets too mouthy about her abrasive views since they like dating fun people.

That’s true for western conservatives too, though I doubt it is for finnish ones. They hate feminists and so feminists have little direct sway in their party. They may not be pro-man but the politicians aren’t dominated by man hating feminists.

What’s the dating scene like for Finland female feminists? Do they actively talk about their feminism and female issues? Do guys generally agree with their more offensive views? Obviously, the media isn’t gonna talk about this much but down on the ground you must have some idea.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
keyster December 2, 2011 at 15:35

Thanks for this insight into Finnish Femocracy.

A key difference in the USA is that Racism (and what we call “identity politics”), always trumps feminism and women as an identifiable victim group. This is the result of the African-American experience here, from slavery up to the civil rights movement in the 60′s, of which feminists adeptly co-opted, (to the point of claiming being a woman in America was akin to slavery).

From a socio-political perspective the African-American grievance industry here holds sway over anything feminists might conjur up as discrimination, oppression or an offensive remark. It’s always been an uneasy alliance under the Democratic/Liberal identity group umbrella. (Obama beating out feminist Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary is a key example of race trumping gender in the USA.)

Republican/Conservatives serve as a check and balance only to the extent that they deny funding and are typically adverse to liberal social engineering schemes such as affirmative action quotas, etc.

And yes it’s true that some Evangelical/Christian “Traditional” Conservatives or “SoCons” will revert to shaming men as part of the solution to the disinegration of the family, but these are a minority. (Liberal/Socialist MRA’s never miss an opportunity to point this out as it helps them reconcile a conflicted political belief system of anti-feminist, yet pro socialist/Democrat.)

Conservatism here is mostly economic/fiscal responsibility, which by extension drains Feminism, Inc. here of govt. funding and blocks feminist governance as “bad for job creating businesses”, as they’d rarely refer to either sex as a group. That said, the vast majority of funding for women’s lobbyist groups comes through private donation and extortion of publicly traded corporations for “memberships”. They have money and they use it to peddle political influence for entitlements specific to women.

Democrats here openly state that Republicans HATE women because they deny funding and Republicans are silenced into responding as a sort of “konsensus-politics”, which we call “political correctness” in the USA. Or, “Thou shalt not criticize woman.” So there are parallels to Finland in that regard.

Suffice to say we here in the US have plenty to share in the form of cyber-strategies and other insurgent tactics in this growing worldwide movement.

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Uncle Elmer December 2, 2011 at 15:53

Is there a FinnWomyn website?

Do Finnish women look like “kylee” or “womanable”?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
NWOslave December 2, 2011 at 17:34

It doesn’t matter what country you live in, feminism has the same goals, State power with women as the trustee’s of the State. It’s mighty expensive which the State loves, and mighty oppressive which again the State loves.

Every State bureaucracy loves feminism and women in general for the cash cow they represent. If there isn’t a problem, just make up a, “study” saying there is a problem. It can be an outright lie. It doesn’t matter. What matters is convincing women they’re oppressed in some fashion. Then you can offer a solution, tax the people and enforce the solution. What State wouldn’t love women.

Virtually every State in the world today is simply a tyrannical organization bleeding the wealth from the population for the protection, provision, privilege and entitlement of women.

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continent December 2, 2011 at 17:58

@ ray at 13;41 , Response to your comment.

http://www.finlandforthought.net/2010/08/23/how-to-avoid-serving-in-the-finnish-army. “quote”
“Why don’t Finnish women have to join the army?

Finnish law states that Finnish women are paid 20% less than their male counterpart for doing the exact same job. (Also, “periods” and “childbirth” are cited as being tougher than joining the army)”
Henry Laasanen
Very informative article with wise comments.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Anti Idiocy December 2, 2011 at 18:57

OT. The grand jury has refused to indict Rayon McIntosh, the McDonalds employee who defended himself from a couple of crazed bitches, on October 13. The grand jury is looking into charges against the bitches.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/mcdonald-beatdown-cashier-freed-11-days-grand-jury-testimony-article-1.986141

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GT66 December 2, 2011 at 19:11

Boxer “Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are. ”

This is very true. At least what constitutes “mainstream” conservatism is loaded with white knight bravado and it is so over the top. It’s pretty disgusting.

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GT66 December 2, 2011 at 19:17

keyster ” to the point of claiming being a woman in America was akin to slavery.”

I ended a 30 year friendship with a woman who told me she is no feminist and then proceeded to say this to me. I knew then and there that her brainwashing was so total, so complete, that she was lost to me forever.

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deeby December 2, 2011 at 20:01

Nowadays, I think that Finland is very poor country. Im
finnish mra and seen that people abroad believe kind of newsweek
hype. No. Finland isnt such great superiorcountry for anyone.
We are falling and losing our balance we reached after world war II. People dont really care here and everyone licking woman boots wuthout enjoyment :D I’ve seen many countries around the world and can assure you Finland is nothing… only feminiats and people knowing nothing about real things. Yock.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2
Prof. Woland December 2, 2011 at 22:20

I don’t know about Finland, but the rest of Northern Europe is mainly comprised of countries with proportional representative governments. This gives the Socialists (feminists) an enormous amount of leverage to cash in their vote for public benefits. In America there are far more checks and balances. It is harder for any one group or party to monopolize the public treasury. The stereotype Americans have of Europeans is that they are lazy. Apparently their women are even lazier then the men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3
Vortac December 2, 2011 at 22:44

Great article, Henry!

I wasn’t expecting you to be so fast in writing it, well done.

A few parts puzzle me a bit – how can you say there are no feminists arguing in finnish MRA blogs, when we have all had our share of the idiocy those ‘anonymous’ commenters have thrown in our face even in your own blog’s comment section?

There is always a feminist stupidity that appears in any article or comment critisizing feminism or telling the truth about men’s situation / rights as far as I have observed. Though it’s been awhile because I don’t read anonymous comments anymore. Still, I think Finland has many raging feminists that write a lot of really evil and idiotic, misandristic things, even in the mainstream media. Then again, you did mention that there are few.. I am sure you meant crazy bimbos like Akuliina Saarikoski etc..

One typo correction: “Litterature” should be “Literature”.

Also, I think this article only scratches the surface of how bad things are in Finland, but it’s a great start. The forced conscription could have been mentioned, etc. But it’s understandable that you can’t put everything in one article, it would become too long, and it would be difficult for even someone as organized and scientific as you to do.

All in all, good work, I hope to see more of this in the future, Henry!

Respectfully,

– Vortac

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 22:52

thesecond: “What’s the dating scene like for Finland female feminists? Do they actively talk about their feminism and female issues? Do guys generally agree with their more offensive views?”

Feminism has quite bad reputation in Finland (In Sweden the reputation is much better), partly because MRA’s have dominated the internet and made clear, that feminism is not about equality. 10 years ago someone could have said in the internet discussions, that feminism = equality, but now days they get angry response from MRA.

In Finland women are usually feminists, but not loud mouthted self-identified feminists. They don’t bring up feminist issues while talking on the dates.

So women are generally half-feminists, and we have not option to choose between hardcore feminists and the other non-feminist women.

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ray December 2, 2011 at 22:58

@continent

Thanks for the link and the answer. The same bs we have been hearing over here in Germany! Nauseating lies, disgusting hyprocisy everywhere!

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Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 23:11

Boxer: “Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are.”

I have seen that phenomenom too in discussion about USA.

The difference between Finland is that we don’t have “real” conservatives like you in the USA. Conservative ia bad label here, something nearly as bad as racist. We do have conservatives, but they keep low profile and bring that part of ideology up.

3 old big political parties in Finland are very close to each other: they are city-liberal-pro gay-pro immigration. Pro for all the “good things” typical liberal is. All the main media is on the same tracks.

The are the “Christian democrats” with 5 % of votes, but even they don’t speak loudly about conservatism.

The Finns party (20 % of votes) and the Christian democrats have their own agendas, which they don’t want to ruin with anti-feminist speak. So they keep quitly. They are not big manginas either, because they avoid the hole gender-subject. But they silently let feminist control the equlity politics.

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Vortac December 2, 2011 at 23:15

“Nauseating lies, disgusting hyprocisy everywhere!”

That’s the nature of the monster. I don’t even mind lies as much as I mind the hypocrisy and unfairness.

This reminds me that according to something I once read, when the people who were forced to work in the Nazi slave labour camps were asked what was the absolute WORST part of the whole ordeal, they said that it wasn’t the beatings, the lack of food, the desparation of the situation or anything like that – it was the unfairness, the unfair treatment (I am paraphrasing, can’t remember exactly what they said, but that was the jist of it).

- Vortac

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Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 23:26

Uncle Elmer: “Is there a FinnWomyn website?”

We have zero womyn sites, if I understand your question correctly (Ugly, feminist, lesbian activism sites).

We have biggest feminist organization magazine called “Tulva”. They made story about leading MRA’s in Finland (me included in the tpo caricature).

“Men from the past”
http://www.tulva.fi/index.php?k=15588

…with this cover picture and text…

“Shoot to the balls! We have had enough with MRA!”2

http://www.tulva.fi/index.php?k=15536

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Henry Laasanen December 2, 2011 at 23:48

keyster: “Democrats here openly state that Republicans HATE women because they deny funding and Republicans are silenced into responding as a sort of “konsensus-politics”, which we call “political correctness” in the USA. Or, “Thou shalt not criticize woman.” So there are parallels to Finland in that regard.”

Here in Finland conservatives or anti-immigration people have been called misogynists (norge murderer Breivik was anti-immigration and anti feminist). Anti-immigration people don’t really say much negative about women, but I see giving them a bad label a same kind of identity fight, where anti-immgration is connected with everything evil.

Funny thing, those rare times feminists or profeminists have entered the debate, they try to label me and other MRA as “conservatives from the past”. That’s quite desperate, because MRA’s are not fond of marriage or masculine role demands or moral judgements toward sexuality.

Left wing feminist try desperately label MRA’s as right wingers, because right represents everythigh evil to them.

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Henry Laasanen December 3, 2011 at 00:01

ray: “What, for example, about “equality” matters like conscription?”

Yes, we are few coutries in the world, that have conscription. I have been in the army for 9 months. Now the shortest time is 6 months.

I don’t see the end of conscription in the near future. In the left wing parties (Left alliance, Green party) there are lots of voices against conscription, but people in general don’t want to end it.

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evilwhitemalempire December 3, 2011 at 00:23

keyster
It’s always been an uneasy alliance under the Democratic/Liberal identity group umbrella. (Obama beating out feminist Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary is a key example of race trumping gender in the USA.)

*****************

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeGPzk8Oca8

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ray December 3, 2011 at 03:02

@henry laassanen

This doesn’t surprise me a bit. When real equality is demanded and would benefit men, then women, indifferent males and manginas have absolutely no interest in it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
Things Are Bad December 3, 2011 at 04:21

“In Finland women are usually feminists, but not loud mouthted self-identified feminists. They don’t bring up feminist issues while talking on the dates.

So women are generally half-feminists, and we have not option to choose between hardcore feminists and the other non-feminist women.”

In the US I’m not sure what percentage of women identify as feminists, but most young ones are spoiled rotten sexist brats (so, feminist in spirit). See: http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/the-great-american-bitch-machine/

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Ryu December 3, 2011 at 04:42

Mr Lasanen is too modest.

Finland is great country. I believe that their population has the best education system in the world judging by testing scores. Their snipers during WW2 were unmatched with one farmer having 550 hits to his credit. It is a country of low crime and stability, which is how some places in the US used to be.

Finland is still on the typical Western track. They are now importing Muslims. They have embraced equality. And of course, there is feminism. They are a bit behind the rest of the world, which is good, but all Western nations are headed towards the same thing

I truly wish I could spare you. Your government is now importing Somalis, Nigerians, Iraqis, Turks by the thousands. They are persecuting patriots like Hallo-aho who speak the truth. You will learn the enrichment of multiculturalism – rape, gangs, murder, robbery, and a permenent welfare class. The solution for you is the solution for all white nations, but the whiter and more tolerant you are, the harder time you will have of it.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 4
jameseq December 3, 2011 at 05:06

- In the equality unit there are 16 women (all feminists) and zero men. That unit is responsible for planning Finnish gender equality mandates.
In the equality unit there are 16 women (all feminists) and zero men.
In the equality unit there are 16 women (all feminists) and zero men.

*roars with laughter*
Why that’s perfectly equal and perfectly in the mind of the feminist

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
Henry Laasanen December 3, 2011 at 05:10

Ryu,

5 years ago (and earlier) we had the “konsensus” truth in Finland that said: “immigration is richness”. No other opinions were allower.

Since then Jussi Halla-Aho’s writings and his followers have been able to bring huge blow to to the “konsensus” and nom days there are daily news in the newspapers like “Halla-aho is the Hitler”, “Halla-aho is Racist” and so on. About 10 patriots were able to get to the parlament and the publig discussion is full of talk about somalis, racism, nationalism, green multiculturalist “flowerhat-ladies” etc.

Discussions of immigration and racism have flooded Finland.

Patriots and MRA’s were before in the same position with no access to public debate. But patriots had more support in the people, so they were able break the class wall on “konsensus”.

Now a days people are wery interest in racism debates and it’s even harder to get MRA ideas out, because immigration is seen as a much severe problem.

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Henry Laasanen December 3, 2011 at 05:26

jameseq,

Here is picture in finnish humor-site, that features the Equality unit workers in Ministry of social affairs: all women.

http://naurunappula.com/483190/tasa-arvo.jpg

And we have plans to impose 40 % quotas for women in corporate boards.

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deeby December 3, 2011 at 06:07

Theres no problem with finnish nature or
education. Finland isn’t paradise due to the newsweek trash involving only half of the points of well-being.
Daily life in any other country is more exciting and close to the purpose of human life. We have the racism and war of the sexes.
Dumb people usually named as finnish drunks.

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Hemmo M December 3, 2011 at 07:06

Some stupid people bring up stupid stereotype thinking, when they are talking and writing Finland and finnish men, just like this countrys feminist.

It is true that this is a land where sun don’t shine 24 hours a day. That’s why we don’ t also smile 24 hours a day. Winters are hard and sun don’t shine, but in the summer finnish people smile and enjoy life just like everyone else.

Many people think that all americans are retarded and stupid. I know thats not true.

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stonelifter December 3, 2011 at 07:56

yea, most social conservatives are clueless about the risk vs reward aspect of marriage in the USA. They understand the value of stable marriages and families to a nation, still think its marriage 1.0 or earlier but refuse to see the truth behind the statistics on divorce and the transfer of wealth. Which often makes them huge manginas

most folks refuse to deal with reality; they just elect the inconvenient truth they want to ignore

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Boxer December 3, 2011 at 08:34

Many people think that all americans are retarded and stupid. I know thats not true.

No, there’s something to that stereotype.

Regards, Boxer

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Jimbo December 3, 2011 at 08:51

@NWOSlave

That is about as concise and accurate a take on feminism as there can be. Of course there are others. I would add, “When you give women the right to vote, you are a feminist, because whether you like it or not, the vote (sharing of authority) starts feminism and feminism won’t get turned off until the psycho parasitic movement that feminism is, has killed the society that gave it life.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
keyster December 3, 2011 at 09:02

@evilewhitemalempire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeGPzk8Oca8

*********************
Right, and it’s been pay-back time ever since:

1) Making Hillary Sec of State
2) The President’s Council on Women and Girls
3) The Lily Ledbetter Act
4) Appointing two female (feminist) Supreme Court Justices
5) The Sec of Civil Rights “Dear Collegue” letter
6) “Free” health care exclusively for women’s “needs” in ObamaCare
7) The Paycheck Fairness Act almost passing (after the 2010 election)

…all this in just 3 years of his presidency to appease feminists for beating Hillary. And many MRA’s still insist Republicans are just as bad, if not worse for men. It’s perplexing.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 3
Clarence December 3, 2011 at 09:12

Keyster:
Anti pornography and “violence against women” laws often have “Republican, tough-on-crime” written all over them. I bet this guy here, worried about the “little woman” should there be a divorce settlement is a Republican: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/views/os-scott-maxwell-divorce-alimony-112011-20111119,0,2195586.column
The Republicans are “pretend allies”, and often don’t even do very much pretending. You may not like that, but it is true. You have no real options in our current two party “winner takes it all” garrymandered, identity- politics, monetarily controlled system.

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Ironmistress December 3, 2011 at 09:42

Let’s say that when you live at sixty north, there are other, far more important, things to think about than gender discourse. Our weather is harsh and soil is poor. Traditionally everyone has been needed to scrape up living. Finnish women are no blonde belles but quite tenacious lot – and they usually do have common sense. [Mostly.] It is perhaps that living near the Arctic Circle blunts off the edge of really crackpot ideologies.

My nickname is purely a professional title. I work in metallurgy, hence my nickname.

Finland was not occupied neither by Nazi Germany nor USSR in WWII. It is just the Realpolitik – the enemy of your enemy is your friend, and Germany was a comrade-in-arms for us on fighting Communism. Both my grandfathers helped to keop the Red plague off this country.

And no, the Finnish women do not get any special treatment in the armed forces, but the physical requirements are the same to everyone. The reason is that the enemy will shoot both the men and women with similar bullets anyway.

I personally wish Finland could do away with conscription and move to all-voluntary professional army, but if not, then women should have conscription just as well as they do have in Israel.The Lotta Svärd force did marvellous job in WWII and both my grandmothers were Lottas.

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continent December 3, 2011 at 10:05

@ Henry Laaksonen,
In one of your links a woman is pointing a handgun and saying. ” Tulta munille jo riittaa miesactism” ( Fire at gonads, enough of mensactivism)
http://www.tulva.fi/index.php?k=15536
If similar picture and text was published in USA against women and feminism, they would likely demand Congressional investigation of “hate crime” and FBI probably would hunt down the artist and arrest him/her. (Finnish language is gender-neutral and male or female is simply called “han” with two diacritical mars above ‘a’ because that letter doesn’t exist in English.

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Doug1 December 3, 2011 at 10:06

Henry Laasanen–

What happens to men in divorce in Finland?

As you probably know we have very high rates of child support=also stealth alimony levied on divorced men. It tends to be something like 20-23% of BEFORE tax income for one child, 25-28% for two. That can mean 50% of a man’s after tax income in high state tax states.

Women also also get custody when they want it with men getting no more than the kids every other weekend if she wants to limit it to that. When women don’t get custody (15% of the cases though that includes ones where they don’t want it) usually due to drug addiction, alcoholism, or a history of proven child abuse (or sometimes prostitution), they rarely are ordered to pay child support, or the man waves it in order for her to voluntarily give up custody, cause courts are so biased in the woman’s favor.

Since the 1970s women get half plus of the man’s wealth accumulated during the marriage, no matter how great that’s been. This includes and pension and other retirement plan investments he might have. If she has kids and gets custody she’ll nearly always get the house. If she earns a lot less than him he’ll have to pay for her lawyer plus temporary support during the pendency of the divorce, which encourages her and her lawyer to drag things out to pressure the husband into settling on terms even more favorable to her than the court would order.

In marriages of more than ten years many states including California, New Jersey and Mass. order alimony for life (or until she remarries or cohabitates) even on top of child support=also stealth alimony, and after he stops being obligated to pay that – when it will go up.

The formula LA and Orange counties use in California is the man owes 40% of his net income after taxes and child support if any, in excess of her income net of taxes. The child support she’s getting doesn’t get added into her net income though it should.

Plus some judges are even worse, e.g. in dividing income. There’s a big tendency to determine all murky areas in favor of the woman. The value of household furniture and appliances which she’ll get and he’ll have to replace at his new dwelling, the real estate commission she’ll theoretically eventually have to pay if/when she sells the house down the road is sometimes deducted though his transaction costs in establishing a new residence for himself are rarely considered and so on.

She gets all this if he cheated and she decides to punish him. He gets identically punished if she cheated, wouldn’t stop, and / or was in fact the one who filed for divorce in order to go prospecting for new falling in love thrills.

All in all a real screw job for men.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0
keyster December 3, 2011 at 10:30

@Clarence
“I bet this guy here, worried about the “little woman” should there be a divorce settlement is a Republican:…”
How is taking adultery out of the divorce settlement equation a problem for men, or women for that matter?

“You have no real options in our current two party “winner takes it all” garrymandered, identity- politics, monetarily controlled system.”

So besides criticizing the curent system as optionless, what do you propose as an alternative? What’s your “system”?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4
Clarence December 3, 2011 at 11:13

Keyster:

It’s called “vote third party” or write in someone. And we can all work for a time when money is banned from politics and some sort of proportional representation is written into the Constitution. Of course I’m not sure the US in its present form will even be around in 20 or 30 years, so this is probably all moot.

As for your question, you should read the column. Mr Republican (and yes, I confirmed he is one, I was curious about it) is all whiney that alimony awards might be decoupled from considerations of infidelity. Of course he’s either ignorant or doesn’t give a shit that women’s infidelity or whether they are shacking up with someone doesn’t play out in child support cases, and often not in alimoney cases either.

In short, he thinks men do all the misbehaving.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
deeby December 3, 2011 at 11:22

“Some stupid people bring up stupid stereotype thinking, when they are talking and writing Finland and finnish men, just like this countrys feminist.”

My point was that, this our great finnish culture has changed
by sudden brainwashing that began 1995. After 2nd world war all our parents and grandparents worked for real dreamland with good social order. Then. TODAY finnish people die to queues of hospital and in many special cases, there is not fast social support when people lose their security or grip by the health or system.

However, nowadays 50% of warafter inheritance has/gonna be dispersed by our shields of global competitions but nowadays people wake up with immigration problems or public couple parodies without old finnish common sense.

We finnish are unique folk that’s the fact. But it seems to be hard for people in Finland and outside of Finland to comprehend that we are like
neurotic children in the global world. Finland isn’t the country of dreams, although it can give you the free of charge-desk in the highschool.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Hemmo M December 3, 2011 at 11:42

“My point was that, this our great finnish culture has changed”

And finnish men have changed also. Finland haven’t been at war for long time and still these stupid stereotypes live, that finnish men is like war veteran, who is violent, don’t speak, smile and suffers Vietnam like flashbacks.

Finnish women are ungrateful and badmouthing finnish men all the time. You can’t satisfy this countrys women that makes me sad and angry.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1
keyster December 3, 2011 at 11:58

“It’s called “vote third party” or write in someone. And we can all work for a time when money is banned from politics and some sort of proportional representation is written into the Constitution.”

Proportional representation of whom, of what?
It is written into the Constitution via the Electoral College process.

Since feminist organization’s co-opted the Democratic Party (as the self-proclaimed “party of women”), lobbying for women only entitlements and laws favorable to women as a group, supporting a third party candidate is a zero-sum game for the MRA. It’s a wasted vote, that could otherwise be used to vote against ongoing feminist governance and pork, otherwise known as the Democratic Party.

Your defeatist attitude is indicative of the “failure to launch” problem that the MRM has had IMHO. The refusal to bend towards a political alliance and solution.

The early feminists held their collective noses when they aligned with the (male dominated) Democratic Party, and the party gladly embraced their support (for the female vote). Can a politically liberal MRA hold his nose long enough to join “the party that hates women” (-Debbie Wasserman Shultz (D-FL), congresswoman, strident feminist and DNC chairwoman, speaking about GOP opposition to Obamacare)?

Perpetual theorizing, philosophizing and criticizing women in an open (politically incorrect) forum lasts only so long. Eventually there needs to be action. And this action is anywhere N.O.W. has a presence.

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Clarence December 3, 2011 at 12:05

Nice way to dodge, Keyster.

In fact, people like Glenn Sacks, who, unlike YOU, have “gotten things done” have worked with people on both sides of the isle.

Instead, we have YOU to beat the drum for the Stupid Party , and ONLY the Stupid Party. Sorry, that ain’t going to fly. I see a man stab me and my brothers in the back I’m going to call him out, and I don’t call if he has a “D” or “R” next to his name.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
oddsock December 3, 2011 at 12:29

Clarence

“Instead, we have YOU ( Keyster ) to beat the drum for the Stupid Party , and ONLY the Stupid Party. Sorry, that ain’t going to fly. I see a man stab me and my brothers in the back I’m going to call him out, and I don’t (care ) if he has a “D” or “R” next to his name.”

Oh well said Clarence, hear hear. In a nutshell

Just as I tried to point out previously. AVfM and it’s supporters has been co-opted, infiltrated by people that want to try and use MRM issues and it’s supporters to bolster support for a political system/party that has and will continue to shaft men regardless of it’s label.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9
American December 3, 2011 at 12:43

I love the term “State feminism”!!! As i totally believe its mens rights activists of today, that are constructing the terms that will be frequently used in the future.

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Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 12:51

@ 11:58 Keyster

Your comment is of the 1970s vintage, and we get nowhere with them forty years later. Men should have picked up on it then. Would have saved a lot of trouble.
It was tiring, always getting shit thrown in my face over at AVFM because I was doing a lot of what you are doing. But I kept it up until leaving for another reason. Oh well.

I was on the telephone with my US Senator’s office not too long ago. My opening line went something like this:

My name is XXXXXX and I’m a constituent of Senator XXXXXX here in XXXXXX. I represent some men’s groups who are very concerned with grossly unfair treatment of men….in laws…….VAWA………we will pledge our support to the candidate…………..”

I pinned them down on VAWA when they tried to BS me. They even stopped taking my calls for a while. But I won’t quit. I can be a real pain in the ass. Multiply that by the number of men (voters) who are getting screwed by some bitch because a Federal laws says she can. Some laws are even worded and engineered to tell her she should.

Good news-
A strange woman bought me lunch yesterday and she had nothing to gain from me or whatever.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
American December 3, 2011 at 12:51

I believe on of the most effective terms that modern American gender-feminists have co-opted, is the terms matriarchy and patriarchy.
Modern gender-feminists (in order to construct a construction that empowers themselves), have conditioned society to believe “violence is patriarchy”, when in fact 85% of all repeat violent offenders currently in Americas prisons come from the segment of society with no adult males or fathers around at all. So in all reality (from a scientific perspective) violence can be more properly termed (not the gender-feminist co-opted term of patriarchy), but in fact more of a “Matriarchy”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3
Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 12:55

Oddsock, Oddsock, you are so far off politcally, but you say it so well.

Remember, you are getting up-votes from the loosing team.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5
Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 13:09

In this situation who gives a rat’s ass if a political party is “stupid”??

As long as they potentially have the power (given to them by us) to amend laws lke VAWA with our influence.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
oddsock December 3, 2011 at 13:15

Mickey T

“Oddsock, Oddsock, you are so far off politcally, but you say it so well.

Remember, you are getting up-votes from the loosing team.”

Lost me on that one mate. Care to expand a little ?

My position/views come from many years of voting and hoping for ANY party here in the UK to make a stand for men, even a little easing up on the misandry would have been a start. Same applies to some of the fringe parties. They are also full of mangina white knights.

It’s the same old same old regardless of political label or for that matter, western country. They will promise anything, even sound sympathetic to Mens issues, until in power. IMHO hoping that by voting for what appears to be the party opposite feminism etc etc is like I said above, same old same old. ( con game )

With respect, voting for the republicans is exactly the same as asking feminists to be reasonable and believing in any promise thay may make.

The system must collapse and it looks like that is going to happen regardless of what you or I do. Course, I often wear a tin foil hat though, a conspiracy nut job, quite odd really as I watch the global economy collapse and the middle east turned into global conflict.

Only some conspiracy nut job would have predicted such a thing.

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Ironmistress December 3, 2011 at 13:17

Hemmo, neither of my grandfathers ever spoke about the war while sober. There is a truth in that stereotype, but most of the men of that vintage have already passed away. Fortunately PTSD can be today treated much more effectively than after WWII.

As for bad-mouthing about Finnish men., not all Finnish women do so, but there is again a somewhat vocal minority. I myself love Finnish men. They are honest, trustworthy and hard-working.And those whom I have dated, very intelligent – and they do no get upset if the girl.shares similar interests as they themselves do. And they usually are neither patronizing nor sex maniacs.

I myself can say that when you become a mother and your child is a boy, you will begin to see the world in a completely different angle. I mean, you begin to think “what kind of a world do we leave to our sons?”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 4
Hemmo M December 3, 2011 at 13:28

Ironmistress:

My generation men do smile, speak and don’ t suffer war traumas. That’s all i’m saying, why do i allways hear these ridiculous stereotypes about finnish men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Kris W December 3, 2011 at 13:38

I have been thinking, we, the MRM do have one absolute nuclear option at our disposal: Marxism.

If you apply a slightly re-tweaked Marxist assessment of Men’s current situation in Western Nations, it fit’s the rhetoric to the T. The reason Female Supremacy+Marxism(Feminism) is such an illogical mess is because women are the ultimate thieves of labor. And modern advances have made the Marxist argument in regards to women(how men used womens labor free of charge) absolutely mute. Because back then women actually did work: Make soap, Preserve food, sewing stuff + make butter in many areas.. etc.

Now women only really steal men’s labor directly and indirectly(as the few women who are actually productive are somewhere between not common and semi rare). Directly via divorce courts, alimony, child support and Prostitution/Sexuality. And indirectly via Quota’s for BS job’s that enable them to lord over men while contributing nothing of significance.

Women are the ultimate Bourgeoisie class in the West.

And it would be so pathetically easy to co-opt communism, as most of them rely on illogical and idiotic arguments to justify their positions. Insert MRM Marxism and boom, perfectly rational and logical arguments.

But I repeat again, that would be a nuclear option.

In some ways it leaves a creepy set up type feeling. Like feminism was just a ruse to drive Western Men into communism? Bleh I hate paranoia, but it can be ever so useful.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4
oddsock December 3, 2011 at 14:04

Kris W

“Women are the ultimate Bourgeoisie class in the West.”

Superb, that is a classic. We really should start to compile a list of these gems.

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Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 14:58

The most male oppressive laws, that I’m aware of, on the American books is the Violence Against Women Act. To amend (fairly) such provisions as “must arrest”, incarceration until trial based only on a woman’s accusation etc, would be a giant step towards the liberation of men…………………………………..

The ONLY reason we have not amended and may never amend these laws is because too few men know that we can. The Spearhead, as similar websites, is a glaring example of this.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
keyster December 3, 2011 at 14:59

“AVfM and it’s supporters has been co-opted, infiltrated by people that want to try and use MRM issues and it’s supporters to bolster support for a political system/party that has and will continue to shaft men regardless of it’s label.”

You have it bass-ackwards.
It’s using the existing political system/party (the party that is “not of women”), to try and bolster support of MRM issues; kinda like feminist groups have used the Democratic Party.

You can either try and work within the existing system or bemoan it as hopelessly corrupt and incurable, then do nothing at all. All movements eventually become political. While the MRM still lacks critical mass at a national level in the US (and other countries), once it gains credible numbers, it will mature further through political activism. If allies are found in the Democratic Party great, I’m onboard, but realistically that’s highly unlikely.

Take 1000 willing MRA’s (if only!) and divide them in half. Send them to Wash DC for a year. 500 lobby only democrats and 500 lobby only republicans. Who do think’ll makes more hay for men, fathers and boys? I don’t think it’ll be with the “party of women”.

I don’t understand you guys that go to such great lengths to try and characterize Republicans and Democrats as being equivalently anti-male when blatant legislative/judicial/presidential evidence is presented that’s not the case. Do you honestly expect there to some day be a men’s rights political party? (like some European countries have feminist parties)

It’s exactly this kind of thinking that keeps the MRM on the looney fringes. Feminists shrewedly co-opted the Democratic Party. What’s the MRM going to do, besides a few ner do wells that “wait for the entire system to collapse”?

Either politicize or be marginalized.
It shouldn’t matter whether you’re republican, democrat, libertarian or green…the day is coming as we build awareness, momentum and motivation.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5
keyster December 3, 2011 at 15:12

“And it would be so pathetically easy to co-opt communism, as most of them rely on illogical and idiotic arguments to justify their positions. Insert MRM Marxism and boom, perfectly rational and logical arguments.”

I understand your point, but a key tenet of cultural Marxism is equality of the genders, that gender is merely a social construct, sexual liberation, etc. (Marcuse/Fromm). So, it’d be a bit tricky. I have something in the editorial staff’s inbasket over at AVfM on this exact topic.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3
keyster December 3, 2011 at 15:25

“The ONLY reason we have not amended and may never amend these laws is because too few men know that we can. The Spearhead, as similar websites, is a glaring example of this.”

How true. That’s what makes S.A.V.E.’s activity so useful.

Not to mention most people find politics and especially any kind of political activity boring and tedious, which it is. The MRM is no exception in that regard. I wonder how a few hundred poyniant and respectful emails on the pending re-authorization of VAWA in a senators inbox Monday morning would be perceived by his staff.

I ask for this and worse than thumbs down, I get no thumbs at all!
Most don’t even know who their rep or senator is, nor do they care to find out. Again, this is not specific to MRAs, but Americans in general.

Hey Big 12 action, OK plays OKState tonight!
That’s what Americans obsess over.

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oddsock December 3, 2011 at 15:34

Keyster

“I don’t understand you guys that go to such great lengths to try and characterize Republicans and Democrats as being equivalently anti-male when blatant legislative/judicial/presidential evidence is presented that’s not the case. Do you honestly expect there to some day be a men’s rights political party? (like some European countries have feminist parties)”

Exactly. You not only don’t understand you simply refuse to understand and continue to try and promote and support a political system/party that shits on men in every way possible. Hence the reason why many including myself see you as a mangina white knight along with many others on the blue pill AVfm site.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6
Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 15:41

I’m not going to jump up and sing America The Beautiful, but it’s a little different here, Oddsock.

We did fight and win the American Revolution, you know.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
Boxer December 3, 2011 at 15:53

I have been thinking, we, the MRM do have one absolute nuclear option at our disposal: Marxism.

If you apply a slightly re-tweaked Marxist assessment of Men’s current situation in Western Nations, it fit’s the rhetoric to the T. The reason Female Supremacy+Marxism(Feminism) is such an illogical mess is because women are the ultimate thieves of labor. And modern advances have made the Marxist argument in regards to women(how men used womens labor free of charge) absolutely mute. Because back then women actually did work: Make soap, Preserve food, sewing stuff + make butter in many areas.. etc.

A couple of us are already working on this. Think a thinly veiled conflict theory with men as the oppressed class. Gramsci and Guevara are on our side, in the final analysis.

Regards, Boxer

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
American December 3, 2011 at 15:56

Will a country still stand if its “gender-feminists” succeed in breaking “hetero-dominance”??

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Boxer December 3, 2011 at 16:07

Dear Oddsock:

You not only don’t understand you simply refuse to understand and continue to try and promote and support a political system/party that shits on men in every way possible. Hence the reason why many including myself see you as a mangina white knight along with many others on the blue pill AVfm site.

Right. Next his mangina gay lover (Firepower) will be on to disrupt the site further.

I’m thinking there is something to the theory first promoted by AfoR, that Keyster is here on Paul Elam’s orders to try and disrupt the “competition” to AVFM. He seems to have unlimited amounts of time to start fights and pit brother against brother here. If you compare his loathsome behaviour here to what he does over there, it’s like night and day.

Regards, Boxer

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6
Boxer December 3, 2011 at 16:21

Dear American:

Will a country still stand if its “gender-feminists” succeed in breaking “hetero-dominance”??

Funny thing: I mentioned this before, but the few people who are cool with me openly talking MGTOW theory are a bunch of gay dudes I work out with at the gym. One of the gay dudes was married and has a son, from back in the day when he was trying to be straight. He was a single dad his whole life, and said boy just made the horrible mistake of marrying a bitch who is making his life hell. So, yeah, gay dudes are often men first, gay second. Many gay brothers have been through divorces, seen their brothers, dads and other family get raked over the coals in the meat grinder.

A little clarification: when I use the term *faggot* here, that is the Canada/British designation of someone who is a meek little whipping boy, and not necessarily gay (though some gay dudes are faggots, like many straight manginas are).

Hetero dominance is just another crazy theory come up with by bitches and their manginas which has no real correlation to anything in the real world.

Regards, Boxer

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Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 16:21

“Hey Big 12 Action, OKplays, OK State…”

And while they were wearing their hats on backwards, to add to the enjoyment of getting off on those great plays, the well organized, well focused and brutal enemy attacked and made off with their balls.

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oddsock December 3, 2011 at 16:28

Mickey T

“I’m not going to jump up and sing America The Beautiful, but it’s a little different here, Oddsock.

We did fight and win the American Revolution, you know.”

Oddly enough, I was just considering making a further comment around your above post. It sort of touches on the points made by us all but from different angles. Make of it what you will.

Some time ago I was watching a battle royale develop on the MGTOW 1 or maybe it was MGTOW 2 ? It was the usual who has the biggest dick type arguments with a strong contribution from Army and vets, mainly American but also from other countries. The main theme was about America being the most powerful Vietnam Korea WW1 & 2 etc etc. The first comment that really made an impact on me was by some American ex soldier commenting on how he found himself at the tender age of 18? 21? Floating down a viet cong river in the dead of the night with bayonet in his teeth face blacked out etc and how proud he felt as an American and how much courage that had taken. He recieved equally divided positive/negative comments. The second comment I remember quite well was made by another American guy that was of the opinion that no one would ever dare invade the USA because there would be a gun behind every tree and how the men would easily see off any intruders etc. Again equally divided positive and negative comments, like I said , a battle Royale was in progress.

At the time I had been writing to an American guy that was in prison and on hunger strike in protest against against child support alimony child custody etc. He had been shit on from a great height by his ex and supporting manginas. He took the incredibly brave decision to make a one man stand, go to jail and enter into a hunger strike in protest. He was willing to risk his own liberty and health to the point of death. I was stunned and humbled to actually recieve a reply from him thanking me for my support and how it gained much strength from knowing he had a supporter from as far away as the UK.

I more or less posted the above last paragraph with a question to all these brave Americans that float down rivers in the dead of night with bayonet between their teeth and the other men that opined no one would ever dare invade the USA as there would be a gun behind every tree etc. I asked, why they could not even offer the smallest amount of support for one of their own country men on hunger strike in jail, an MRA of amazing courage, fighting for them and something that they are supposed to be against ?

The silence was deafening. You could have heard a cockeroach fart.

P.s

“We did fight and win the American Revolution, you know.”

Correct but how many years has it taken you to realize the Federal Reserve has never ever been Federal and who actually owns it ?

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oddsock December 3, 2011 at 16:43

Boxer
Right. Next his mangina gay lover (Firepower) will be on to disrupt the site further.

“I’m thinking there is something to the theory first promoted by AfoR, that Keyster is here on Paul Elam’s orders to try and disrupt the “competition” to AVFM. He seems to have unlimited amounts of time to start fights and pit brother against brother here. If you compare his loathsome behaviour here to what he does over there, it’s like night and day.”

Excellent, You are now seeing the connections similarities and methodology. I suspect Firepower is closely related to Paul Elam, lol.

I did not want to point out the above, just glad you can see through the BS and why I do not have much respect for AVfM and some of its supporters. Sadly many are duped and being lead on a merry dance but I am sure they will also see through all the BS.

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Jimbo December 3, 2011 at 16:53

@oddsock
Yes we should start a list of “these gems.”

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Hemmo M December 3, 2011 at 16:57

“I asked, why they could not even offer the smallest amount of support for one of their own country men on hunger strike in jail”

Same thing here in Finland, nobody gives a f… about mens rights. Everybody is laughing and bad-mouthing those people who are trying to do something improve also mens rights.

It’s so funny when you don’t get screwed by some women or your country, it’s always funny when it happens someone else but you.

Nobody is laughing women, when they get screwed, it’s always serious thing and they will get help and support.

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Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 16:59

Isn’t the fact that feminists hate Republicans and always support Democrats enough to make every man here a Republican??

Sorry, but at this time there are NO OTHER viable parties.

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Hemmo M December 3, 2011 at 17:37

I think many men are afraid that they are not getting any pussy if they help fellow man in trouble. That’s why mens rights aren’t getting so much support.

Men who aren’t afraid to be killed in a war and acting like Rambos are afraid much more that women dont give them sex.

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oddsock December 3, 2011 at 18:00

Hemmo M

Yes, you are on the right path. It’s all about mens faulty programming and this is what the likes of the Spearhead and many other MRA websites are about and decloak the con game . We are gradually getting men to think and challenge how and why we behave in certain ways. Why we allow ourselves to become wage slave pack horses or cannon fodder.

Try not to give much value to those that come here and say we are just complaining and doing nothing etc etc. We are getting the message out, that’s for sure. Men are waking from their slumber.

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Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 18:05

@ Oddsock

Your comment is interesting, dramatic and informative, but to me, irrelevant.

I mentioned the American Revolution to indicate the purpose was to sever the “Colonies” from the UK brand of government.

You seem to occasionally apply the dynamics of UK politics to the US. When you make assertions about US politics with an American present who knows the assertions are inappropriate, expect debate.

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oddsock December 3, 2011 at 18:14

Mickey T

Pass that by me again, in English.

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Mickey T December 3, 2011 at 18:43

Another VAWA provision which should be amended, in domestic violence cases, is the granting of gov’t funds (taxpayer) for legal representation of the women only. If a low income man is falsely accused of assault by the woman, he would have to rely on a “legal aid” lawyer to oppose basically a privately paid lawyer.

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gender foreigner December 3, 2011 at 19:08

Dear Ironmistress December 3, 2011 at 09:42:

In Israel, women are conscripted into safety, not danger, that’s men’s work, same old, same old. Just look at the gender-kill-ratio body count.

Men are in ARMED service. Women are in UNIFORMED service.

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stonelifter December 3, 2011 at 19:18

The idea that marxism will liberate men is 180 degrees out of phase with reality

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gender foreigner December 3, 2011 at 19:18

Dear Ironmistress December 3, 2011 at 13:17:

I’m glad to hear your position about sons. My exprience and observation both anecdotal and systematic/parametric show that women/mothers don’t care for their sons but rather care against them.

I have considerable experience in the Women’s Government Schools, etc., including very much exhaustive and continuing research on the matter.

Mothers’ (more properly, “egg providers”) care against their sons. I’m from women’s Canada. That truth is extreme in its particulars and getting worse always.

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gender foreigner December 3, 2011 at 19:43

Dear oddsock December 3, 2011 at 16:28:
Mickey T

“I’m not going to jump up and sing America The Beautiful, but it’s a little different here, Oddsock.

We did fight and win the American Revolution, you know.”
.
.
.
The above is partly true, only. The UN also, “won” the Korean War. Half the country remained in Communist hands, however. Such is the case as per the American Rebellion of the 1770s.

Loyalist Canada remained, as did loyalist Carribean, even to this day.

A more accurate portrayal of the American Rebellion would be that of a Stale Mate. The 49th parallel, etc. remain. The Carribean colonies realms remain.

The Senior Service of the proto USA (the land-force Army) won predominantly on the land, but lost primarily as per the sea (notwithstanding that the Royal French Navy was successful in blockading Royal Navy logistic support to the British Army, a fact with allowed the rebels to win within their geographic realm.

As such, to a great degree, the Royal French won the American Rebellion (although, not without the substantive aid of the land-based rebels, however).

Indeed, there are many qualifications to be brought to bear onto the standard commentary.

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gender foreigner December 3, 2011 at 19:53

Dear stonelifter December 3, 2011 at 19:18:
.
The idea that marxism will liberate men is 180 degrees out of phase with reality
.
.
.
Agreed, for sure, big time. However, I think the point the original commeneter made was not by way of RECOMMENDATION, but rather by way of RECOGNITION. Said differently, the original commentator was not speaking as a THERMOSTAT, he was speaking as a THERMOMETER. He wasn’t recommending that Marxism was the cure: he was making a statement to the effect that (Feminist) MARXISM WAS THE DISEASE.

As such, you and the original commentator are actually ON THE SAME PAGE. To restate again, the original commentator recognized that as per Marxist ideology, WOMEN ARE THE OPPRESSIVE CLASS and MEN are the OPPRESSED CLASS.

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Paul Elam December 3, 2011 at 22:35

I have been reading this with some amusement, after being sent a link to this thread by a reader. I’ll offer some reaction, which anyone is welcome to believe or not. I won’t post here again after this.

One, AVfM has no affiliation with and supports any political party at all. In fact, someone would have to be really stupid to read through the site and conclude that the editorial stance is anything but contemptuous of both mainstream parties, and for reasons that should be apparent to any regular reader of this site.

So Keysters comment, if I am reading it correctly, is not representative at all of AVfM purpose or policy. We have no plans, nor will we ever, to use the Republican party to further MRM goals. The only thing that could change that would be if the republican party changed its act significantly, and I am not holding my breath for that one. Somehow, I don’t think white knights and chivalrists, aka, the enemy, are going to make good allies any more than the feminized left.

And I trust that 95% of readers of this site don’t need to be told that.

Two, AVfM is not in competition with TS. Our content is often similar and there is certainly cross traffic (I come here to read myself when I can), but TS is not a men’s rights site, or a hub of activism. What TS does quite well is inject high quality counter-theory to significant audience. It’s a very valuable entity on that alone.

We are two different operations, with two fundamentally different purposes that I think happen to compliment each other.

The idea that Keyster is here under my “orders,” or that I even knew about his comments before now is crazy; like scary, pushing a shopping cart down a sidewalk crazy. Nuff said on that.

Lastly, while I respect what Bill has done here, I generally keep my attention to the articles and not the comments, which are almost always insightful and informed, but generally get dragged down by a minority of idiots and back stabbers that are to the MRM what hemorrhoids are to enjoying a seat in a theater.

That is part of the free for all feel of this place, and that is fine. It’s just my personal preference to focus on activism, and for that we need cooperation.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 4
Vortac December 3, 2011 at 23:49

“Finland is great country.”

Tell me, how long have you lived in Finland?

- Vortac

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Vortac December 4, 2011 at 00:02

“Winters are hard and sun don’t shine, but in the summer finnish people smile and enjoy life just like everyone else.”

On the other hand, during the summertime, there is a 24h sunshine (depending on where you are located though).

In the north, there are times when you don’t see the sun at all during the winter – and as a contrast, there are times during the summer where the sun never sets (I have experienced this first hand, and it was sort of surreal).

But the reality is, finnish winters are long, dark, cold and harsh, no matter where you are located in the country, and the summer is very short – in a manner of speaking. Of course esoterically speaking we get the same 3 months for every season – but it doesn’t feel like spring when the first month of spring is filled with snow and ice and doesn’t look any different from a winter month (except for the brightness and chronological amount of the light). And the last month of the autumn is so dark and leaveless, that it doesn’t differ from the first winter month in any signifigant way (except there might be less or no snow).

This long darkness period probably contributes to finnish people being so gloomy and introverted – the culture does the rest. Still, it’s a good challenge for the soul, and it’s a real contrast when the spring finally comes, and especially when the summer arrives. It’s like – if you can survive the long dark tunnel, there’s a real reward after you reach the end of it. That is one reason why I like it – the contrast and the rewarding appreciation of spring and all that’s beautiful in the nature that happens when the winter finally ends.

You are sort of right about the summer – finnish people go pretty crazy during the summer – probably because of the contrast of the introverted winter, but I still wouldn’t go as far as to say that people in Finland -smile- as much as people in other countries. They don’t.

- Vortac

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Boxer December 4, 2011 at 00:03

Hi Paul:

Firstly, I want to thank you for taking the time to send this reply. A screenshot has been taken.

All your invective would be an apt description of your right hand man, “Keyster”, who takes to following people around and harassing them as a hobby. While I am by no means his only target, I am apparently one of the most recent. Over the course of the last several weeks Keyster has *outed* me as a “communist” (lol) and a “Jew”, among other things. He has attempted on several occasions to “out” my real name — a common feminist intimidation tactic. Once I was named John, and later I became an illegal immigrant named Jose. Apparently Keyster, aside from being an anti-Semite and political conservative, has a long string of other enemies and he assumes I might be one of these.

Lastly, while I respect what Bill has done here, I generally keep my attention to the articles and not the comments, which are almost always insightful and informed, but generally get dragged down by a minority of idiots and back stabbers that are to the MRM what hemorrhoids are to enjoying a seat in a theater.

If I had any doubt that Keyster was disrupting the spearhead with your blessing, it disappeared when you began mirroring his abhorrent behaviour. Of course we know you’re full of shit when you preach about “cooperation”, based on your history of trolling and flaming men you don’t agree with (the Roissy idiocy you attempted to start, which “chateau bullshit” refused to join the mudslinging is what I’m talking about here). You’d think you two would get some more productive hobbies.

In closing, I’ll repeat what I was told when this subject first came up, around about the time I first found the spearhead. You, Paul Elam, have done nothing in the way of activism. Sure, register-her is pretty amusing, but other than soliciting donations constantly I don’t see anything you’ve accomplished other than shit-disturbing, just like you’re doing here.

Regards, Boxer

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 01:14

Too bad Prince Machiavelli is turning in his grave. We can use him right now.

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Vortac December 4, 2011 at 01:17

“My generation men do smile, speak and don’ t suffer war traumas. That’s all i’m saying, why do i allways hear these ridiculous stereotypes about finnish men.”

Maybe you are not seeing the big picture. Of course finnish men smile and speak, but from a smalltalk-culture’s perspective, they don’t.

Finnish men smile and speak only for a REASON. Smalltalk-culture’s people smile and speak even without any reason. That’s the difference. It is much harder for a man to smile in Finland, especially if he has lived there all his life, because of many factors – but to mention a few: how he is treated (by women especially), how others see him, the darkness that is so omnipresent for most of the year in Finland, cultural factors, the media, experiences etc.

A man who has lived in Finland most of his life can go to Asia, and experience a completely different culture there for awhile. There he learns that it’s ok to smile and talk to strangers for no reason, to make jokes and puns to travel companions, to look at beautiful asian women in the eyes and smile meaningfully – he learns to feel like a normal human being, like someone who is and should be respected as such. He learns to respond to the usual sight of other people smiling with a smile of his own – not a faked one, but one that comes from the genuine feeling of gladness to be in their uplifting presence. Whenever he looks at a pretty woman on the street, they always look back and smile. He gets used to this as a normal way that human beings should interact.

Then he comes back to Finland.

The culture shock is humongous. Suddenly it seems like someone turned off the lights, and that it can -not- be that dark there really – maybe it’s some weird, temporary weather effect that’s blocking the light, but it just can’t be this dark!

Suddenly he experiences a chilling shock when he tries to look and smile at women on the street – they don’t even meet his eyes, and they have angry look on their faces. It feels like they are ready to just grab the pepper spray and yell rape. he starts to feels like a monster for even attempting such a gaze, after enough such encounters. Why do the women not respond to his good will anymore, he wonders. He starts shutting down, closing his heart again, and learning not to smile very much, unless there is a solid reason to. Soon he is again one of the masses of finnish people – with the standard non-look on his face, avoiding and averting other people’s eyes, and the experience he had in Asia feels like only a beautiful dream. He is a man in Finland again.

- Vortac

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Vortac December 4, 2011 at 01:33

“Same thing here in Finland, nobody gives a f… about mens rights. Everybody is laughing and bad-mouthing those people who are trying to do something improve also mens rights.”

Yes, this is exactly right. I think Finland is one of the world’s hardest countries to talk about men’s rights. In USA, it seems to be much easier, because there are so many more people, which means there are so many more MRA’s, and there is so much variance with all kinds of different states, different environments from mountainy places to plains and many things inbetween, that even men’s rights can be discussed seriously. Even when there is the expected ridicule, there are more people to rise against the ridicules, and challenge their viewpoints. In the little Finland, it’s a very difficult thing to do, and the consequences are less challenged – especially in the ‘real life’.

I can imagine men’s rights being able to be talked about in real-life situations in America, at least much more freely than it’s really possible in Finland. As there is no smalltalk-culture, there is also no ‘politeness’ or ‘courtesy’ culture, so no one has any restrictions in doing whatever they see fit to you if you raise big enough taboo to the discussion table. What I mean to say, it’s more dangerous here. And it’s ok to threaten to shoot men in their genitals in a publication with no negative consequences whatsoever (see the links that Henry Laasanen gave in his message about ‘fire to the balls’, a magazine called ‘Tulva’ did this with no negative consequences to them).

And in addition, there is an unwritten rule that says: “Naista ei saa lyödä”, which means roughly translated “It’s forbidden to hit a woman”. No one even challenges this sentiment, and the few that do, just get the usual “because women are weaker”-crap (although women are always stronger and better than men in all things at the same time, how convenient) in their face, and if there are men nearby, the challenger faces the danger of being beat up.

Then there are forces who try, want to and attempt to silence anyone who speaks against their misandristic worldview. Those people talk about reporting the commenter’s IP’s to the police and such things, thinking that the law exists to satisfy the feministic womanly whims – and that that’s the only reason it exists.

- Vortac

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Vortac December 4, 2011 at 01:37

“Loyalist Canada remained, as did loyalist Carribean, even to this day. ”

It’s Caribbean, not Carribean. I really wish people would first learn how to spell the words and only afterwards type them.

- Vortac

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oddsock December 4, 2011 at 02:12

Paul Elam

” That is part of the free for all feel of this place, and that is fine. It’s just my personal preference to focus on activism, and for that we need cooperation.”

Bullshit !

Paul you blew it big time when you attacked AfOR. The guy simply refused to send you Dollars or use Paypal. He did offer his expertise/consultancy and considerable band width all for free.

Your attack was totally stunning almost a full page of insults slurs and condesension. Add to that your ferocity and attack on AfOR was further echoed by Keyster and a few other of your supporting manginas.

I am not sure Micky T but if I am correct you was one of the attackers ? Apologies if I am wrong ?

Paul, the guy was also going through a difficult time with something we all know about and still offered his help and to be met with the inult broadside from you and your manginas was beyond stunning.

Your activism and mine are poles apart. Just for the attack on AfOR alone you are nothing but a shithouse.

Go back to your fan club.

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Clarence December 4, 2011 at 04:55

I will say this:
I’ve never -and I’ve been reading Paul Elam for years – got the idea that he supports any particular political party. I do not doubt that he feels the two main parties screw men over in big time ways. As for the AFOR stuff, the suspicion, hatred and hostility -which seems to be related to the “game versus mgtow” dustup of a few weeks ago – I’m just sad.

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finndistan December 4, 2011 at 05:11

As a foreigner in Finland, following the finnish news in english, the media attack is impossible to avoid.

Articles on how the recession forces women back into the kitchen, articles on comparing all women and all men’s salaries not divided by occupation etc, articles on how men have more free time when the data clearly showed that men work more (from a survey spanning the ages 10-65), the president saying that the real victims of war and conflict are women and children, etc… In a small country, in the main news outlet, when these kinds of articles appear multiple times a week, its can get overwhelming, and with what Henri says, the consensus politics, it is impossible to show people that “Look, the survey showed men worked more. It is in the data”. Talking to a brick wall gets more response.

This is how I ended up with adding a category to my mainly “stupid things that happen in the nightlife” blog, that I named smelly media.

http://finndistan.blogspot.com/search/label/Smelly%20media
http://finndistan.blogspot.com/search/label/Smelly media

(dunno about the %20 thing so retyped)

The posts do not contain feminism, but since I see feminism as only one arm of the parasite octopus, there is multi culti, pc, diversity, envirofascism, speech right issues etc.

Studying the situation is Scandinavia is of uttermost importance as these countries are shown to be working beacons of equality, feminism and leftist states; when there are too many demons in the closets.

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Boxer December 4, 2011 at 08:39

Dear Oddsock:

Your attack was totally stunning almost a full page of insults slurs and condesension. Add to that your ferocity and attack on AfOR was further echoed by Keyster and a few other of your supporting manginas.

I realized just now that I had never seen this conversation, so I went and pulled it up.

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/05/19/the-spatula/

The comments by Elam, Keyster and related white knights are mostly hidden due to low comment ratings. Stunning to see, though.

Paul Elam himself seems quite disturbed. Freud would likely make much of his constant reference to diarrhea, hemorrhoids, flatulence and feces, though I’m a mere bungler in psychology and can’t make any proclamations about the underlying motivations for this sort of thing. In any event, we see now whose bidding Keyster is doing when he comes here to disrupt the site.

Paul Elam: Why don’t you begin treating the-spearhead in the way AVFM ought to be treated. Consider your feelings if the admins of this site, their friends and their volunteers trolled yours constantly, disrupting the conversation and insulting the regulars.

The readers of the spearhead can’t do that, even if we wanted to, of course. We largely have jobs (work, of course, is what *men* do, which you and Keyster are exempted from by the looks of your constant internet presence) and families and social lives. Even so, I believe you can see my point, at least in theory.

Regards, Boxer (your Jewish, Mexican, “cum chugging” communist friend from the spearhead)

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Firepower December 4, 2011 at 09:08

Boxer December 3, 2011 at 16:07

Dear Oddsock:

Right. Next his mangina gay lover (Firepower) will be on…

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/12/02/equality-feminism-and-the-mrm-in-finland/#comment-120955

oddsock December 3, 2011 at 16:43

I suspect Firepower is closely related to Paul Elam, lol.

Honestly, Mr. Price – how much more adolescent vent-spew of “fuck you doodie britches” from this clown-punk Boxer and pure Clown Oddsock must we tolerate here.

Their insane/inane vulgarity are graffiti soiling an otherwise tolerable neighborhood.

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keyster December 4, 2011 at 09:09

“The idea that Keyster is here under my “orders,” or that I even knew about his comments before now is crazy; like scary, pushing a shopping cart down a sidewalk crazy. Nuff said on that.”

Such are those of the wacky conspiracy theorist ilk.

And Boxer, how did I get to be an anti-semite all of the sudden, whatever ever happened to me being a racist?

“Isn’t the fact that feminists hate Republicans and always support Democrats enough to make every man here a Republican??”

Yes and as much as I’m blue in the face from bringing it up, it goes ignored, because an obscure and totally irrelevant SoCon named Bill Bennett told men to “man-up” recently. To me the leftist/(what we call liberal) anti-feminist is conflicted, and he points towards the SoCon “man hating” fringe of the Republican party to rationalize the dichotomy.

My key point though, in case anyone’s noticed, is that all social movements become political at some point, and when this one does what direction is the most logical and practical for it to take? I’m asking us to ask the question of ourselves, because “people get ready there’s a train a comin’” – (apologies to Curtis Mayfield)

(Paul – I sent you a secret email regarding our next moves to completely undermine anything anyone else is doing in the MRM; including all the fine commenting work of afor, oddsock and boxer.)

Normally we speak in code over at AVfM, but since the cat is out of the bag…

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 09:17

RE: 02:12

No Oddsock, I don’t know anything about this attack, and Paul and I have totally different views on political and some cultural issues. But I’d like to weigh in on what I believe I’m reading.

I may be understanding this wrong, but it sounds as if you are saying when AFOR was down and would/could not offer Paul money, but he offered what he could, Paul viciously attacked him at least partially for the money issue. There may be more about this incident that I don’t know about, but it almost sounds as if you are attacking Paul’s character, Oddsock. I can’t believe what I’m understanding about your comment is about the same Paul Elam that I’ve known for a long time. It’s totally out of character.

Paul may have his faults, but character, sure as hell isn’t one of them.

MY apologies if I’m reading it wrong.

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Firepower December 4, 2011 at 09:46

Boxer December 2, 2011 at 13:40

Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are.

lmao – damn those Conservatives for creating all that pro-feminist media, movie-making, legislation and preferred academic admissions.

Thankfully, we had Liberals
to stem the advance

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 09:50

Isn’t anybody listening to Paul and Keyster?? They are on different ends of the political spectrum.

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 09:56

“Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are”

Please explain that.

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 10:02

RE: 09:56

That’s OK, don’t trouble yourself. I’m sure you have more important things to do.

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gender foreigner December 4, 2011 at 10:10

Dear Firepower December 4, 2011 at 09:46:
Boxer December 2, 2011 at 13:40

Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are.

lmao – damn those Conservatives for creating all that pro-feminist media, movie-making, legislation and preferred academic admissions.

Thankfully, we had Liberals
to stem the advance
.
.
.
Point well taken. I think what appear to be contrary views to the above recognize that, “conservatives” do not stand up against Feminists at all. Really, “conservatives” are, “liberals light.”

Certainly in Canada, ALL political parties are Feminist, no prisoners.

When I was victimzied by Affirmative Action, it was the, “Progressive Conservative” government of Brian Mulroney which destroyed my life.

The, “conservatives” didn’t have the guts to stand up against a Liberal Party Opposition MP, Sheila Copps who insisted on having a female right to harm the male in the work place.

As in the armed forces, Corperal Bravery is trumped by Social Bravery. “Conservatives” lack Social Bravery as do virtually all others.

We must be like Jesus Christ who was, “in-your-face” oppositionist to the sins of the day. We must oppose the Seig Heil Feminazi Gender Criminals and their property, spineless men everywhere.

As per the USA, I’m not the only one to recognize that the acquiescence of the Republicans in Feminist advance. Recall George Bush I speech quoted by Warren Farrell. Recall George Bush II wife going around the world as an obedient Feminist lackey as per Feminist claims and intended and achieved harms. Recall Ronal Reagan’s wife’s quoting in her book of Ronnie’s claiming that women civilize men.

The list goes on forever.

In short, recall the Brian Mulroney Progressive Conservative majority government of the 1980s which introduced commercial-violence-against-men legislation (which was approved by the, “Opposition”–really, “Her Majesty’s Most Loyal Complicity”) which destroyed my life and continues to destroy other men’s lives even as we have a majority government of Steven Harper’s, “Conservative Party” which keeps introducing and passing legislation to protect, “Women and children” (e.g., the globalization of protection for mothers as per birth and the children–no efforts re men, boys nor male babies as per anything at all).

Liberal, Conservative, same stuff, different piles.

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Attila December 4, 2011 at 10:14

Ugh- all this infighting – and for what? Who does this help?

Why can’t we agree to disagree and let non-reconcilable positions BE? Viewpoints are just that, viewpoints, and most will NEVER overlap totally. There is no need for inquisitorial or personalized attacks on other people’s integrity. Plus- it could just be trolling or the work of some agents provocateurs.

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gender foreigner December 4, 2011 at 10:25

Dear Firepower December 4, 2011 at 09:46:
Boxer December 2, 2011 at 13:40

Conservatives in the USA and Canada are actually bigger manginas than Liberals are.

lmao – damn those Conservatives for creating all that pro-feminist media, movie-making, legislation and preferred academic admissions.

Thankfully, we had Liberals
to stem the advance
.
.
.
During the reign of Brian Mulroney’s, “Conservatives” in Canada, PM Mulroney appointed Stephen Lewis, an ultramangina to be Canada’s ambassador to the UN.

Just read what that ultramangina did (and is still doing) against males and for matriarchal irresponsibility, etc. the world over.

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 10:26

Conservatives and Liberals the same??

I can see that kind of nonsense coming from foreigners, but to Americans, I hope you recognize reality when you reach voting age.

In the mean time, do some research on both parties’ voting record.

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oddsock December 4, 2011 at 10:48

Boxer

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/05/19/the-spatula/

The comments by Elam, Keyster and related white knights are mostly hidden due to low comment ratings. Stunning to see, though.”

Correct Boxer and exactly why I say Paul Elam in not what he pretends to be or some of his supporters. There is something creepy about the whole set up.

Anyway, enough time has been lost posting about these numpties.

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American December 4, 2011 at 11:27

The bottom line here folks in …..”Houston, we have a problem”. The perverse protocol of many American law enforcement, (that is federal funding based); have enabled women and girls to be able to scratch themselves in the face, and point to their boyfriends, and say “He did this to me”, and that guy is going to jail unless he has video surveillance to prove she is lying.
Folks, this is a perverted use of American law enforcement. This along with the “manufactured statistics Alliance”, is simply beyond the scope of powers delegated to American law enforcement. This misinformation and manufactured statistics alliance amounts to using state and federal funds to discriminate, and is unconstitutional.
The American gender-feminists get “Empowered” by this perverted Alliance, but anyone that dates women ie. (hetero males;) are now assuming a legal liability for their hetero-sexuality.

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Firepower December 4, 2011 at 11:40

gender foreigner

Liberal, Conservative, same stuff, different piles.

And there’s the rub.

So, if you despise conservatives…who do you vote for – Liberals?

You eloquently paint the predicament
that clowns like coxer and oddsod sputter insanities about.

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oddsock December 4, 2011 at 12:21

Oooohhh ! Hey Boxer, looks like we really upset them over at a voice for manginas.

As the saying goes; “A womans anger is the weathervane of truth”.

Firepower, while you are giving us so much of your attention. How about these plans for the MRM you keep promising.

Hang on a mo. I need to phone dialapizza. Should give you enough time to lay it all out. Don’t let me down yet again with empty promises.

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Mickey T December 4, 2011 at 12:53

RE:15:25 Keyster

If you are still this three ring, do you know if SAVE succeeded in putting the acknowledgment of men being victims of DV into VAWA this year??

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Hermitcrab December 4, 2011 at 13:04

About a year ago I was reading the author’s blog at the Uusi Suomi online newspaper, and a random link leads me to discover the Spearhead. Funny how things in life sometimes go full circle.

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oddsock December 4, 2011 at 13:57

Vortac

That was a really interesting post about Finland. One of the advantages of the Spearhead is being able to get a realistic viewpoint from guys in the actual country/place. I had no idea things were so bad for men in your country.

I wonder how much SAD affects the mood of the people ? It is supposed to cause depression in 7% of the population in countries with much shorter winters so I would guess it will be much much higher in places such as Finland. Add to that the feminist PC environment and you will no doubt have one hell of a miserable place to be a man.

http://www.sada.org.uk/

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Boxer December 4, 2011 at 14:26

Oooohhh ! Hey Boxer, looks like we really upset them over at a voice for manginas. As the saying goes; “A womans anger is the weathervane of truth”.

Yeah, we sure did. Old Elam revealed himself as a shitfreak obsessed with everything anal, and was good enough to demonstrate his proclivity for flaming and trolling web pages. His three asslickers posted in tandem, within mere moments to back him up. LOLOLOLOLOL!

Anyway, enough time has been lost posting about these numpties.

Agreed my brother. Thanks to all the participants, and to the admin for hosting this pathetic display of angst, all performed by the usual halfwits. This thread (like the spatula one) will be archived for posterity’s sake… a real time “register her” for bitches like Elam, Keyster, Firepower and company (as though the thread he spewed his degenerate lunacy at Roissy wasn’t enough).

Regards, Boxer

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oddsock December 4, 2011 at 15:01

Boxer

It would be quite amusing if it was not so pathetic.

And people send this crowd money? For what? Visiting other MRA /Male friendly websites to stir up shit?

Creepy, very creepy!

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W.F. Price December 4, 2011 at 16:25

I’ve got no problem with AVfM doing what they do. We need plenty of different voices and different methods. I also happen to think competition is perfectly fine, and probably a good thing in the long run, so long as it stays civil.

So, that said, let’s keep it civil and and respectful. If we try to outdo each other rather than tear each other down the results will be far better than otherwise. I prefer to look at it as different artists trying to produce the best music. When that’s the idea, you might end up with something like Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson and Stevie Wonder, who actually complement each other by improving their musical genre. However, when it degenerates into animosity and personal rivalry, you get Tupac Shakur, Notorious B.I.G. and Soulja Slim (all murdered).

I suppose I’ll post further on it soon, but that’s my take on it in a nutshell. For now, let’s take it easy.

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continent December 4, 2011 at 17:22

Paul Elam remark gives an interesting remedy for feminists.
“idiots and back stabbers that are to the MRM what hemorrhoids are ”
Because feminists speak so much bull shit their mouth must resemble the bottom orifice. If feminist would use Preparation H for lipstick, perhaps it would heal they hemorrhoids on their lips.
As to feminist writings I know no remedy.

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keyster December 4, 2011 at 21:36

“I can see that kind of nonsense coming from foreigners, but to Americans,…”

That’s something that can’t ignored; that this is a worldwide collective of Americans, Canadians, English, Aussies, etc. I won’t pretend to know anything about the parlimentary system of government and how one would go about taking political action in those places, I only know the United States. But since the rest of the world seems to take it’s socio-cultural (feminism) cues from us, it’s not a bad place to start making an impact.

I don’t expect others around the world to activily participate in US political activism, or even fully understand the dynamics, (most Americans don’t either). I’m just glad there’s others out there in the world that get the fact men, as a group, are under attack by a powerful social ideology. The shift from philosophical debate to awareness is taking place. That’s progress.

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Ironmistress December 4, 2011 at 22:10

Hemmo, yes – your generation Finnish men do smile, they have sense of humour and they have emotions. And they do not suffer from the PTSD and the war traumae of their grandfathers.

Becoming a mother is a great way of getting rid of most truly outré gender ideologies and theories. In the end men and women are pretty much similar: they look quite the same from behind and they fit together fairly well on their front side.

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Ironmistress December 4, 2011 at 22:16

Vortac, once the “Naista ei saa lyödä” program has been successfully implemented, it is time to implement “Miestä ei saa lyödä” (Men may not be hit) program as well. Women do break easily than men from physical violence, but men do break too, and outlawing the violence of women is no approval of violence on men..

Men are not violent by nature. They are made that way, and Lloyd deMause explains pretty well why: http://www.psychohistory.com/originsofwar/02_whymalesaremoreviolent.html

Please read that link – while you may disagree with it, it really invokes thoughts. The weeding out of violence is on the hands of mothers.

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 08:03

There are a few men, here, who if taken seriously by enough other men, could bring more harm to us. To mention some, Boxer, gender foreigner and I dislike saying it, but Oddsock. Many seem like they just need to do their homework and grow up, and to me are annoying. But I’m particularly uneasy about Oddsock. As Oddsock is a man of maturity, others, including many impressionable younger men in distress, who are seeking answers and solutions, often gravitate to older men. This brings a responsibility to the older men to choose wisely how they may influence younger men. As much as he is intelligent, clever, well meaning and good natured, he falls short in the area of America politics.

I ran into this same problem with Angry Harry. The UK guys need to realize that the sun DOES set on the British Empire and the world is more likely to follow the US than the UK. With their well meaning influence, they are doing a disservice to their brothers across the ocean as well as the world.

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keyster December 5, 2011 at 09:07

“…he falls short in the area of America politics.”

The elephant in the room is that there are many outside the USA that absolutely hate the USA system of government and economic system, (and quite a few that hate Americans as well). This is born out of our biased media that’s distributed worldwide.

There’s a neat compartmentalization of their inherent political beliefs and anti-feminism that’s at play. This is why anyone that points out the obvious connections (of say women’s groups to the Democratic Party as an example) infuriates them. It’s a dichotomy they can’t fully reconcile, and they don’t appreciate it much when someone points it out. This is when the invective and personal attacks start flying, rather than offering realistic alternatives for political action.

Most Americans are oblivious to just how hated we are around the world for our “policies”, arrogance and the fact we have it pretty damn good here..

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Crikey T December 5, 2011 at 10:42

I think I am beginning to understand why so many people have such a problem with Keyster, not to mention the latest “new name” to appear here.

The creator of the site asks people to tone things down, and immediately Keyster’s buddy, “Mickey T” gets on to troll Oddsock, Boxer and Gender Foreigner.

If you, Keyster, don’t like this site and the regulars here, you are welcome to take your spaniels and run back to A Voice For Men. You and Paul Elam (not to mention your sockpuppets) should work for men’s rights separately, and let this site alone. No one forces you to troll or flame people here. It’s bad manners and reflects poorly on your guru or “leader” Elam as well.

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Firepower December 5, 2011 at 10:58

oddsod

Firepower, while you are giving us so much of your attention. How about these plans for the MRM you keep promising.

Explain strategy and tactics
With you, who believes in wishes, “ifs” hopes and fairytales?

I’d sooner talk about Santa Clause
with a child

Pity the “Leader”
your kind elects

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keyster December 5, 2011 at 11:43

“No one forces you to troll or flame people here.”

I’m sorry you view political disagreement and defending the ongoing disparagement of the US, (on a site run in the US, by a fellow US citizen), from the few here that feel complelled to do it, as “trolling” or “flaming”.

They’re entitled to voice their opinion, but all I ask is that when criticizing the horrid oppressive, democratic/capitalist tyranny that they perceive the US to be, they offer an alternative solution. In other words, just come out and plainly state that some form of quasi-marxist/socialist government is the ideal, similar to say a Cuban system. And that this is best for men and here’s why.

But instead the response is name calling and obfuscations meant to create conflict between TSH and AVfM; of which Paul Elam has nothing to do with what I say, nor do I of him. On the contrary he’s strictly and purposefully apolitical in his endeavors. I’m not, because I believe solutions come in political action, eventually.

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oddsock December 5, 2011 at 12:07

Good grief ! Beam me up scotty ! Get me away from these lunatics.

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 13:15

They just can’t grasp the concept that the beginning of any meaningful freedom men are to experience comes from a political source. If the current male oppressive laws remain in effect men will continue to be thrown in jail, children taken from them, false accusations ………………. The laws dictate the culture. If the laws denigrate men, the culture will follow as we’ve watched for the past forty years. As more and more male oppressive/ female empowerment laws where enacted the state of men’s rights and general social status steadily declined. If we don’t change that, everything is almost meaningless. We’ll never have equal social status legally.

Some of us know that there is a way to start changing these Draconian laws. But we can’t even get as far as stating a plan because of all the opposition here.

They are the biggest bunch of whining and unproductive bastards I’ve seen in a long time. All they want to do is bitch to each other, and the one who words the bitches best wins. Grammer counts. But, the votes for the bitching come from many losers.

No, I’m not a loser. I’ve had a full life with women. Many girlfriends who added to my life in a positive way. A wonderful wife…….women still treat me good and add to my life. I have no dog in this fight, only the concern for our children and our brothers. I’ll be gone before men, as we see here, let it all go down the shithole

How many times have we seen a suggestion for some kind of solution here??

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keyster December 5, 2011 at 13:36

“They just can’t grasp the concept that the beginning of any meaningful freedom men are to experience comes from a political source.”

I used to be intrigued by how the MRM could never seem to gain any traction. I fear I now know why. Feminists shrewdly align with Democrats, while MRA’s avoid politics altogether..because “all governments are puppets for feminists, filled with whiteknight manginas and corrupt, etc.” It’s the defeatist attitude and bizarre musings of anarchy and revolution and “taking down the system” that’s discouraging.

This puts the “lunatic” in “MRM is a lunatic fringe group”…which is exactly where liberals and feminists want it to remain….frozen and marginalized from the common discourse.

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 13:55

Exactly. And they are all laughing at us.

“We show them how to do it, and just look at what those stupid fucks do”
“It’s been over forty years and they still don’t get it ”

“Life is good” “Keep it up guys”

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oddsock December 5, 2011 at 13:56

Oh Micky T Micky T

I wish I had the time and energy to try and explain manythings to you.

No matter how I put things, you will take offence. So much to choose from in your posts.

Look, with respect, take this snipet from your post.

“We’ll never have equal social status legally”

Oh really ? Can you tell me when we ever did ? Have a look at your local War Cemetry. Check the death at work stats for men and for that matter choose any country you wish.

Micky T despite what you may think I am not having a pop at Americans or it’s political system I am simply trying to point out it is all corupt and in every western country. Voting for Democrats/Republicans Labour Socialist Conservative or the Monster Raving Looney Party matters not one jot. It is just the many heads of the snake. The one party snake. Can you not see that ? Look just as a simple example. Think Obama and ” change” He promised everything and yet not only continued with the previous government policy but increased it. It is all the same in any western country. To keep hoping you will change things buy voting for a different party is the very definition of insanity; Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different result.

We. Europeans/British etc are simply trying to do our best to wake you up and not follow in our footseps but it is almost as difficult as trying to talk sense to a feminist, really.

Look. The best way I can try and explain it to you is by the simple comparison of the Red pill/Blue pill scenario. I am more Red pill you are somewhere inbetween and refusing to let go of the Blue pill.

Ever see the movie ” They live” ? Remember the scene in which the guy is trying to force his new found work mate to put on the special sun glasses to make him see reality ?

I am doing my best to put those same glasses on you and a few others.

Thats it. I can’t explain it any better than that. Do as you wish read and believe what you want.

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 14:49

RE
13:56 , 10:42 , 14: 26 , 10:25

Forgive them, for they know not what they do

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oddsock December 5, 2011 at 15:04

Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 14:49
RE
13:56 , 10:42 , 14: 26 , 10:25

Forgive them, for they know not what they do

Sorry mate the above means nothing to me. Buddhism is my teacher.

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 15:11

My apologies to Christians, but it was just appropriate to keep in.

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 15:12

should read: …just TOO appropriate to keep in……..

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 15:18

Oddsock says regarding “We’ll never have equal social…………”

“Can you tell me when we ever did?”

Of course not, Oddsock..

In groups like this, I’ve often noticed those with a particular mindset often had comprehension problems with concepts etc which didn’t fit their own “ideology”.

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oddsock December 5, 2011 at 15:20

Micky T

No problem, as I said above ; Thats it. I can’t explain it any better than that. Do as you wish read and believe what you want

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 15:46

10-4

Ciao, brother

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keyster December 5, 2011 at 15:58

“…I am simply trying to point out it is all corupt and in every western country.”

Yes it’s all corrupt, some more corrupt than others; yet you pose no alternatives to the existing order. Should we revert back to a benevolent monarcy? (Hail the Queen!)

Anyone can critique “the system”, but what then do you propose replace it? Either choose one or feel free to develop your own. What does the Utopia of Oddsockistan look like? How will you govern your minions there?

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Mickey T December 5, 2011 at 16:20

“We’ll never have equal status legally”

The way I’ve written that, one might think I believe that men literally were, or may become, equal to women legally, which is absurd. I meant some legal arrangement that resembled pre- feminist rule (1965ish). I was aware of that, and preached it to a deaf audience since my mid teens.
Sometimes I have to rush through comments.

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Boxer December 5, 2011 at 20:13

It appears Keyster is talking to his own sockpuppet. Must be a lonely life. LOLOLOL!

Buddhism is my teacher.

Do you have e-mail my brother? As an atheist I find this discipline interesting and would love to get some info on it. Might be fun to chat outside the arena too.

Regards, Boxer
[email protected]

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Firepower December 6, 2011 at 08:02

Crikey T

The creator of the site asks people to tone things down, and immediately Keyster’s buddy, “Mickey T” gets on to troll Oddsock, Boxer

Maybe Mick’s Sick
of all the slobbering socialists
from England, Australia, Canada and NZ

This place is overrun with such “brave lads”
bravely posting on American sites because they bravely fear
punishment bc their government monitors them.

Way to fight lads. Way to combat enemies!
Logon, then bitch about American fatties
fiddling as your own country turns into
a Paki dustbin

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Boxer December 6, 2011 at 08:04

I gave you a thumbs up, now…

Shut up, Poodles; nobody gave you permission to speak.

Regards, Boxer

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oddsock December 6, 2011 at 08:56

Firepower

Shhh, you are going the right way to get yourself banned with comments like that. Shush now, please.

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Boxer December 6, 2011 at 10:11

Dear Oddsock:

I used to wonder why Poodles wasn’t banned. I realize that he (and his friends Keyster and now Keyster’s sock Mikey T) perform a valuable service.

Anthropologists (Claude Levi-Strauss was one of these) described primitive men who were so far beneath everyone else in intellect and stamina as to be cast to the edges of tribal settlement. These men usually lived near the tribes toilet/garbage midden. In return for satisfying the sexual appetites of the tribe’s bored homosexual men, and in return for being slapped around, they were allowed to dine on scraps and were protected by the tribe. These types are usually called “omega males” though in earlier references they were called “outcastes” or “isolates” (neither of those is really accurate, but anyway…).

You can see this in the modern day tribes which spring up in the prison systems. The prison bitch sleeps by the toilet and is traded around sexually in return for protection.

The omega males of the spearhead are treated similarly, and they seem to instinctively know their role. It’s interesting to watch. If we ever have a reunion I expect Keyster, Firepower, Mikey T and Paul Elam to serenade us around the campfire with a barbershop quartet rendition of the old dixieland song *Backpedal Up The Bullshit River*, smiling as they’re pelted with beer bottles and rotten tomatoes. It is the only form of recognition they respond to.

Regards, Boxer

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Firepower December 6, 2011 at 10:56

Boxer puppy

Dear Oddsod:

I used to wonder why Poodles wasn’t banned.

Because Bill’s savvy to your Censorship Gambit Game, unlike your immature pal ferdi. Whose flailing banhammer has reduced the IQ of his once decent site into a grade school

You foreigners constantly bash America, yet come to an American site to get some twisted satisfaction in spewing hate and railing against whatever injustice you cannot find the courage to fix in your own enfeebled countries.

You come here as noObs and attack those here looooong before you with established reps.

When that fails, you start screeching lowbrow, Philistine “fuck you asshole” to any who listens, whenever you are bested – hoping some Benevolent Mod comes along to save you from further exposure of your ineptitude.

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oddsock December 6, 2011 at 11:23

Look Firepower

I understand you are very angry and for reasons best known only to you. I suspect it is because of all your anger you do not see what is actually being said, either that or you are, as many suspect, simply a site destroyer here to cause as much trouble as you can. Your constant search for weak spots are a classic trait of an emotional terrorist.

Anyway, enough of that, let me try and clarify a few things for you that you refuse to accept. Perhaps for the reasons above?

As I have said many times before I am not attacking America. I recently commented on another thread that I am simply trying to prevent the USA from following in our steps ( ( UK/Europe ) and yes I know we are in the shit. I am trying to stop you and your country men from being in the same position.

Now listen very very carefully. The USA is the only hope the rest of us have of regaining any form of liberty and freedom. Your people can defend themselves, they/you are armed to the teeth for a start, we are not.

If America goes down the pan, we all do. I havent the time or the will to explain the ins and outs of it all so, excuse me Mr Price if I ignore your request for civility for a moment.

Firepower, Stop being such a fuckin arseole, grow up listen and read fully what is actually being said. And stop trying to stir the shit. It does not and will not work. You simply do not have the emotional maturity

If you want to try and come back at the above with some smart arse comment then you will only confirm to everyone you are here simply to stir the shit.

The ball is in your court.

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Mickey T December 6, 2011 at 16:18

If the foreigners here are really concerned for the good of humanity, but the fuck out, go tend to your sheep, cookies whatever you do over there and leave the business of being America to American men. We don’t need the opinions and least of all, the advice of the biggest losers in the world.

Firepower an emotional terrorist?? Catchy. Isn’t that some kind of cunt Liberal expression??

You guys are ignorant, arrogant and annoying losers. GO HOME and clean up your own houses and don’t spread anymore more of your unwelcome advice here.

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Jorma December 6, 2011 at 22:41

“Here in Finland we have only one truth at a time, and for equality the “truth” is feminism.”

This is probably the most important point of Henry’s article.

In state feminism, the same lies and half-truths about so-called pay gap, male priviledge, domestic violence etc. are repeated over and over again by the authorities and the mainstream media. While almost everybody, apart from some die-hard feminists, is ready to admit privately that the Finnish MRM has some good points and that the feminist theory does not portray Finnish reality accurately, practically nobody is willing to criticize state feminism publicly.

In my opinion, the MRM in Finland needs radicalization. In order to to break the silence, it is necessary to be much more vocal and provocative. We have been too nice for too long. It is time to behave badly.

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Firepower December 8, 2011 at 12:26

oddsod

As I have said many times before I am not attacking America. I recently commented on another thread that I am simply trying to prevent the USA from following in our steps

Then, stfu and WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN country instead of MY COUNTRY.

Americans are supposed to take seriously the opinion of a monger living in a country – where other mongers tossed it away?

Worry about yourself, you presumptuous fool – or your inflatable sheep.

You, are a socialist whiner who runs to teacher/authority figures/bosses and cries “unfair! waa-waa!” when you can’t fight your own battles – much less win.

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KARMA MRA MGTOW December 10, 2011 at 18:55

” In the equality unit there are 16 women (all feminists) and zero men. That unit is responsible for planning Finnish gender equality mandates.”

This is because men are lazy won’t turn of the TV, leave the house and put up sticker/posters. I will give the feminists one thing SOME OF THEM know the value of hard work…

For some ideas see my facebook page http://www.facebook.com/karma.mgtow

and by AvFM page

http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/

Males turn off the TV and get out there!

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Kari Hurtta January 15, 2012 at 20:31

Ironmistress at December 3, 2011 at 09:42:

And no, the Finnish women do not get any special treatment in the armed forces, but the physical requirements are the same to everyone.

I have impression that this is not true.

For example X.

/ Kari Hurtta

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The Captain Power January 20, 2012 at 17:20

Interesting……Makes me want to avoid Finland : (

http://thecaptainpower.blogspot.com/2012/01/i-love-gym-in-winter.html

Power out!

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