Mediation on Wednesday

by W.F. Price on November 21, 2011

I’m going to be mediating a finalized parenting plan for the post-relocation custody arrangement on Wednesday afternoon. Although I’m not terribly optimistic, at least I have some decent guidelines handed down from the court commissioner in my August hearing. Most importantly, he ruled that I should keep the same amount of parenting time with my kids, which means, practically speaking, that I should have them for the overwhelming majority of holiday time.

However, I’m not sure my ex will honor this ruling, as she’s been doing her best to limit my time and conversation with the kids since they moved to the Vancouver area.

In the meanwhile, I’ll be getting my papers in order and preparing to address whatever might come up in mediation. As I think it’s important to enlighten men who haven’t been through this, I’ll write up the experience and try to explain what happened. At this point, I have no idea how it will turn out, but I tried mediation once before, and it didn’t turn out very well. In that case, the mediator, an attorney named Barry Rose, seemed to think the proper method was to bully and threaten the father while white knighting for the mother, which only had the effect of giving me a fatalistic attitude toward the process.

Hopefully, this time the mediator will be more reasonable, but they each have their own technique, and I don’t know the man. We shall see.

{ 41 comments… read them below or add one }

Dubliner November 21, 2011 at 11:24

Good luck!

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Dubliner November 21, 2011 at 11:25

(Looks like your post cuts off, BTW)

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W.F. Price November 21, 2011 at 11:34

@Dubliner

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out — something was wrong with the link.

Opus November 21, 2011 at 11:40

I wish you well. Women, like children, need routine as they have no self-discipline.

Last Friday a friend showed me some text messages from his ex-wife, demanding more money for their sons. These are the facts:

1. They have been divorced sixteen years
2. Their two sons are now in their twenties
3. She has remarried
4. She and hubby no.2 work for multi-nationals
5. My friend does not have a regular job
6. (There are those who doubt he is even the father of the eldest – who knows?)

She was also complaining about some property settlement which she had voluntarily agreed to – and she wants me to be her facebook friend. The terrible thing is that when younger she was very cute (OK I did sleep with her). Women go crazy when they hit forty – and she is no longer cute. I advised that he ignore the texts.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 9
Quartermain November 21, 2011 at 11:44

Best of luck to you.

I hope it turns out for you.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
Opus November 21, 2011 at 12:11

@W.F.

I had a look at that picture of Mr Rose – fat slob – and did not much care for the cut of his jib – but, may I say, that:

1. If the judge does not like you there is not much you can do, and the danger is that you just keep digging a bigger hole, but;

2. (easily said) one can remind the Mediator that he is not the Prosecutor and that his job is to mediate – always of course in the best interests of the children as that meaningless phrase is his only over-riding guide.

3. Dress for the occasion. Judges like people who look like themselves – appeal to him as it were man-to-man.

…but please disregard anything I say in favour of your own Counsel’s advice – I would not you blaming me for anything not going the way you want.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8
Nemo November 21, 2011 at 12:19

If your kids are in Canada, and you owe more than $3000 in back child support, I beleive that the US will cancel your passport.

The next time you need to renew it or have any contact at all with the State Department, their computers will search a list of people who owe back child support. If your name is on it, they will kill your passport and you will be unable to see your kids.

Your ex might be counting on this. Consult a lawyer – but don’t contact the government or they might kill your passport immediately.

Beware.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Nemo November 21, 2011 at 12:20

P.S. On second thought, you might want to avoid posting that last comment – some femmie might try to get the government to “review” your case and kill your passport.

You are not paranoid if you really do have enemies …

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
alpha November 21, 2011 at 12:42

Best Of Luck !

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
W.F. Price November 21, 2011 at 12:59

but please disregard anything I say in favour of your own Counsels advice I would not you blaming me for anything not going the way you want.

-Opus

Opus, you can rest assured that I will hold you personally responsible for whatever may happen from here on out. :)

Traveller November 21, 2011 at 13:59

Good luck.

Keep these posts backupped offline so you could (if you will want) show them to your children when they will be older.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
Rebel November 21, 2011 at 14:09

Best of luck to you.
May you prevail.

Bonne chance.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Morrisfactor November 21, 2011 at 14:28

Bill-

Barry Rose was my divorce attorney fifteen years ago in reply to a divorce my ex-wife initiated.

His first act (over my objection) was to send an inflammatory/attacking letter designed to stir up my ex-wife (which it certainly did) and starting the long road down a very hot and contested divorce. I fired him half way through the divorce.

Recently, I talked to another divorce attorney in Bellevue and they said that Barry Rose is who you want WHEN YOU ARE A WOMEN. He is terrible if you are a man. Rose is “old school”, believes that women will suffer and men should pay, and I would have no faith in him as a mediator.

Get a new mediator (sorry, I don’t know one to recommend) but do not use judge Ed Heavy or attorney Howard Barlett as mediators either. Both of these men are close business acquaintances of Barry Rose and both are very “white knight”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
Rocco November 21, 2011 at 14:28

@ Welmer

Obviously good luck.

If your wife is making it difficult for you to see your kids, imagine what she says to them when they express interest in calling you.

One piece of advice I learned the hard way recently. Your children are watching everything you and your wife are doing very closely. They are like sponges. They are full flegded little humans with nearly fully formed brains and know alot more of the subtlies then you realize.

I don’t know what you can do to not make them treat people including you and thier mom in the same way when they are old enough but I’ve seen enough cases and experienced it myself to say….be very careful around the kids.

They may not tell you how they really feel, they tend to try to tell you what will make you happy and then you treat them better.

Such is the mind of a child…..talk to them but watch their actions more carefully.

And have a great time, they’re only young once and then only for a month….next month they change again….it’s pretty awesome.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
Somehow Somewhat November 21, 2011 at 14:35

“Most importantly, he ruled that I should keep the same amount of parenting time with my kids, which means, practically speaking, that I should have them for the overwhelming majority of holiday time. ”

Welmer,

1. Good luck.

2. Fathers need to rephrase, and frame their contact with their children as what really is: the children’s contact with their father.

E.g. “Most importantly, he ruled that my children should keep the same amount of time being with their father, which means, practically speaking, that they should be with me for the overwhelming majority of holiday time.”

3. Fathers and men in general, are disposable, as some quarters think. Men are not even parents, if you ask them. So they see no reason for fathers to see their children. Men have no feelings, that’s what they assume. They are not hurting any of your feelings, because, to them, you have no feelings to be hurt in the first place, being a man. That’s also why women and the system that alienate children from their fathers, are honestly surprised to see the children wanting to see their fathers. The women and government do not understand why. In any case expect no sympathy for your needs and feelings to see your own children. That’s why it is recommended to rephrase. Fight (as you do) for the rights of your children to see you. Fight for the rights of your children to be with you. The rights to also be parented by you, their father.

That is what you are going to be mediating. If they refuse, it means they choose to deny the children the rights to see their (children) own father.

Again, good luck!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Carnivore November 21, 2011 at 14:52

Bill,

Good luck to you.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
mananon November 21, 2011 at 14:57

Well then, all I can say is good luck Welmer.

The whole western family law system stinks, and your forebearance in the face of it is an example to all of us.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Dubliner November 21, 2011 at 15:25

Rose literally looks like a clown.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
TFH November 21, 2011 at 16:12

Welmer,

However, Im not sure my ex will honor this ruling, as shes been doing her best to limit my time and conversation with the kids since they moved to the Vancouver area.

This will backfire on her in the long run.

Your kids will eventually see the vast reservoir of content you have written here, and process it.

I hope the lower amount of time you get with them at least gets you off the hook in terms of too much CS = alimony, though.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
TFH November 21, 2011 at 16:16

I had a look at that picture of Mr Rose fat slob and did not much care for the cut of his jib but, may I say, that:

Looks suspiciously like Bill Bennett.

Maybe there is some ‘whiteknight gene’ corelation.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Rumour November 21, 2011 at 16:33

@ Somehow Somewhat – “Thats also why women and the system that alienate children from their fathers, are honestly surprised to see the children wanting to see their fathers.”

Women know exactly what they are doing to the father of their children. The feel the power and revel in it. It is cruel and evil and no excuses should be made for them … ever.

The State doesn’t care because bureaucrats are not human and have no souls, therefore they see no inherent value in anyone who comes under their power.

Let’s keep things in their proper perspective.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
Annonymous November 21, 2011 at 22:56

The problem with following othordoxy and legality every step of the way seems to be a man’s just digging a bigger and deeper hole for himself … as the system itself designs for men.

He still gets his assets, income, property, pensions and children forcibly confisicated by people deeming themselves to have better and more noble purposes for these things than himself the property owner and the father.

The reason this evil system exists and persists is because, bit by bit over the decades it was being built up, men accepted its injuries to them and their children. That is, so much so that today we have become conditioned to the systems repression and actualy welcoming of it.

This evil of family law, with its genderist procedures and perverse protocols, non of which are really lawfull or constitutional has not befallen men elsewhere, simply because they wont accept it.

We have accepted it. Specifically, we have accepted it as a way to treat other men, till it comes our own turns when we then make a fuss.

The ongoing lesson is that the fight against tyranny and repression must be ongoing, unrelenting and uncompromising if any group is not to, over-time, be accustomed to the status of social stooge or tyrannies subjects.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
Boxer November 21, 2011 at 23:30

Good luck Bill. I’m right behind you in the courtroom… Boxer

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Somehow Somewhat November 21, 2011 at 23:31

@Rumour,

We are in the same page in this.

What I meant for women being surprised to see children wanting to see their fathers, is that women (as a group) do not regard the fathers as parents at all. On the contrary, men acknowledge the right of the children to have some contact with their mother. Women do not see it why their own children would want to see their father. Therefore, when mediating for child custody, do not make the mistake of assuming that the woman sees a man as an equal parent or even a parent at all.

That is, Golden Uterus Complex at its zenith. E.g.
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/05/17/does-your-wife-or-ex-wife-have-a-golden-uterus-complex-15-characteristics-of-the-golden-uterus/

http://www.thepsychoexwife.com/the-golden-uterus-complex/

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Opus November 22, 2011 at 00:48

On reflection I have been unfair to Mr Rose – calling him a fat slob – kinda trips off the tongue too easily – I take it back, but he is overweight and I don’t care for that boufant hairstyling – must be an american thing as we don’t see it over here, neither do we see provincial lawyers able to make a living out of run-of-the-mill matrimonial work – just about the lowest of the low in terms of fees – and no man would want to do it (bargain-basement fees from the government) – though I know you americans will perhaps find that hard to believe – but we are different , not obsessed by xtianity or feminism – we largely ignore these things.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7
Eric26 November 22, 2011 at 08:02

If my mother wasn’t on the other side of the country she’d be the right lawyer for you. She often represents fathers because unfit, selfish child-hoarding mothers make her sick. The fact that she’s a woman probably helps her win these types of cases too.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
Szebran November 22, 2011 at 09:54

“Im not sure my ex will honor this ruling, as shes been doing her best to limit my time and conversation with the kids”
What in the hell is wrong with her?? How can she call herself a parent or even an adult for that matter?

“mediator seemed to think the proper method was to bully and threaten the father while white knighting for the mother”

What a loser.

Good look to you Bill cause it sounds like U will need it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Highwasp November 22, 2011 at 21:15

Been there Bill… when my first born was abducted by her mother and taken out of state I only found out where when the local DA sent me CS bills… the experience was just like kidnapping, torture (yes my child was abused) held for ransom and continuous and extortion. What little time I was ‘allowed’ to spend with my child was cut short when I was forced to turn her back over to the abusive mother and pay her for the abuse and extortion… the only way for me to have kept my sanity and my life was to walk away. I have posted this before – but once again – if you come to a choice between your life and / or her’s – remember you have a third option of going your own way.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Nugganu November 23, 2011 at 07:49

I just did my first round of mediation last week. After being screwed over by my own attorney, I fired him and sought out a mediator. While I am not getting a great deal, I am getting a much better one than our respective councils were trying to negotiate. Namely, the other party were trying to screw me out of my earnings through demanding a 300 grand life insurance with the mother as sole beneficiary, and in sending my child to an expensive montesori school.

The fact that my child’s mother is collecting welfare and scamming them it would seem, however, worked against her favour. She claims to be a single unemployed mother, and that I abandoned her, meanwhile I’ve been trying to broker a deal for over a year. It helps that I was never married, I can only imagine how much more difficult that was.

As it stands, the mediator warned her that she could be in trouble due to her ‘impropriety’ so basically the mother has to agree to a better deal. I got concession on both the life insurance and the education. I mean, really, it’s a difficult sell on her part – she is actually living with and engaged to a man, drives a new 50,000 SUV, lives in a 4 bedroom house and is collecting welfare.

I’m lucky, as the mediator I have seems quite reasonable. I’m in Canada too btw, horrendously anti male family courts here, but I’m somewhat lucky as their MO seems to do whatever possible to get mothers off welfare. Likely because our system is buckling under the stress of it all.

Best of luck to you Werner.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Nugganu November 23, 2011 at 07:51

Sorry, I meant good luck to you Welmer….

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Boxer November 23, 2011 at 17:37

Highwasp has got it, sadly.

I don’t tell any other brother what to do, because anyone in such a hard situation ought to just be supported, and we all have different priorities. If it were me, I might do what AfOR writes about on his blog. Since you will never have any quality time with your kids, and will only be forced to pick up the bill and subsidize the kidnapper of them, leaving them behind seems a legitimate option. It’s pretty pathetic that it comes to that, but that’s the hand many brothers are dealt and forced to play, and I will never condemn them.

Peace, Boxer

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
Avenger November 23, 2011 at 18:14

Welmer, you’re free to do as you choose but I did warn you about allowing your former wife to leave the jurisdiction of Washington and the US. And since you now need a passport to travel from the US to Canada these days what happens if yours is not renewed, even if your name is put on some list in error?
Also, I would have never revealed your identity on this blog and you likely did then when you were not thinking logically as a result of this divorce business. Now, you may not be writing anything objectionable but suppose one of your readers does and your wife shows it to a judge? You also don’t want her to know anything about you or what you’re planning.
I also would not accept mediation unless I chose the mediator which of course would be one of my lawyer friends :) The whole system is set up to screw YOU and being a reasonable Mr Nice Guy only makes it easier for them. You want to be the biggest bastard who will not even concede even one minor point.
And if it were me I would have already sued your wife’s boyfriend. Cause of action-alienation of affection and imfliction of mental anquish. When he has to spend time and money filing an answer to a complaint, answering interrogatories and having his life under scrutiny he’ll begin to wonder if the bitch is worth all of this trouble.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
Master V November 24, 2011 at 09:20

Who’s doing all the “disliking”? I wonder.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
oddsock November 24, 2011 at 14:59

“And if it were me I would have already sued your wifes boyfriend. Cause of action-alienation of affection and imfliction of mental anquish. When he has to spend time and money filing an answer to a complaint, answering interrogatories and having his life under scrutiny hell begin to wonder if the bitch is worth all of this trouble.”

Hmmm. Not so sure about that approach Avenger. It could also be seen and used against a Father. An ex with a good lawyer could argue that the Father does not have the best interest of the children at heart by such an action. Here in the UK anything a Father does or does not do can be used against him. It’s always a case of heads she wins, tails the guy lose’s.

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Avenger November 25, 2011 at 03:29

oddsock-if as you say the guy always loses then he has nothing to lose by using my methods.

“An ex with a good lawyer could argue ..”

I go after lawyers too so he had better be a saint because I’ll find something in his background to make him look bad and make sure that everyone in the area knows it. Whether it’s something from his personal life or a reprimand in his file at State Licensing, I’ll know it :)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
Avenger November 26, 2011 at 03:13

Im lucky, as the mediator I have seems quite reasonable

No, you’re just a pussy whipped moron.

I would have made sure that the female was prosecuted for fraud. Even if some bitch prsecutor wasn’t going to do it I would have made it impossible for her not to by publicising the whole matter to the press and many others etc
This way she’d be behind bars and would not have custody and couldn’t collect child support.
Let her mother or some relative take the kid or even you could if you wanted. The money that you’re saving by not paying her you could hire a nanny for when you’re not around.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Avenger November 26, 2011 at 03:13

Im lucky, as the mediator I have seems quite reasonable

No, you’re just a pussy whipped moron.

I would have made sure that the female was prosecuted for fraud. Even if some bitch prsecutor wasn’t going to do it I would have made it impossible for her not to by publicising the whole matter to the press and many others etc
This way she’d be behind bars and would not have custody and couldn’t collect child support.
Let her mother or some relative take the kid or even you could if you wanted. The money that you’re saving by not paying her you could hire a nanny for when you’re not around.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
nugganu November 27, 2011 at 05:08

Hmmm. I’m a pussy whipped moron, and I’m not even shagging her.

Actually, Avenger, you’re a fucking faggot and I’d give money to punch your fucking face in.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4
Avenger November 27, 2011 at 10:18

You sound like a Newfie to me.

If the millions of men who are harassed by family courts just told them to fuck themselves the government wouldn’t have the resources or police to enforce anything.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
Avenger November 27, 2011 at 14:53

Actually, Avenger, youre a fucking faggot and Id give money to punch your fucking face in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flt9K8vlJGE

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
Firepower December 6, 2011 at 08:08

newfies, canadians, brits aussies
- this place is overrun with
failed western socialists
crying in their chains

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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