Is Christianity Salvageable?

by W.F. Price on November 21, 2011

It’s probably confusing for a lot of people to hear that Christianity has essentially become a female sect, because for years we’ve been hearing about how awfully patriarchal and sexist Christian denominations (and other Abrahamic religions) are, and how the religion is a tool used to subjugate women. Given that churches are now about as female as college campuses (about 60%), folks must be scratching their heads and wondering what happened.

Many of the men writing on this issue, including Dalrock and Elusive Wapiti, are Christians themselves, and they’ve done a great job exposing the rampant man-bashing in contemporary Christianity. Dalrock recently pointed out how Christians even go so far as to excuse female-initiated divorce for trivial reasons, and cannot boast any more success in keeping families together than secular society.

So what’s the deal here? Why have Christians failed so miserably across the board in their sacred duty to uphold the sanctity of matrimony and prevent dissolution?

What’s happening is that Christianity has become an industry of sorts, and it caters to its consumers, who are overwhelmingly female. As wealth has transferred to women, who are the biggest discretionary spenders in the US by a wide margin, churches and preachers have turned to supplication to earn their daily bread. Supplication for women is probably the defining service performed by Evangelicals, who make a tidy profit from the practice, the basis for which can be found in James 5:

13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The tipping point for Christianity in the US likely occurred when supplication became the church’s most profitable enterprise (as opposed to a backwoods hustler’s game), or at least when aspiring young preachers realized what success it could bring them. From there on out, a more female-oriented faith was inevitable.

If preachers had merely stopped there, it would be bad enough, but in their eagerness to please female congregants they’ve taken things a step farther, and many have progressed to the kind of outright man-bashing and shaming one would normally expect from a lesbian apostate such as Mary Daly.

They’ve gone from forgiving women’s sins, faith healing and praying for money to playing the part of a drill sergeant for husbands, who, as we all know, will never be quite good enough for wives, guaranteeing plenty of work for the energetic preacher.

Pro-Male Anti-Feminist Tech, one of my favorite bloggers (he wrote the infamous “War on Science Fiction and Marvin Minsky” article that helped launch The Spearhead into some renown), has been doing some investigation into contemporary churches, finding that church is fertile grounds for women seeking a particular kind of husband. Of course, PMAFT’s mission will likely upset more than a few Christians, but what he has found should be of considerable interest to Christian men, even if it may not be music to their ears.

As Christ Himself said:

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Matthew 5:15

So, it would be rather foolish for believing Christians to snuff out the light of truth that exposes what’s going on in houses of God, even if what they see does not please them. With that in mind, let’s see what exactly is happening in church today (excerpt from “The (Not) Virgin From The Sunday Morning Nightclub“):

Many of you have been waiting to hear about my Sunday Morning Nightclub (aka church) exploits. Your wait is over. I have been investigating various Sunday morning nightclubs here in the DC area, many of which are Sunday afternoon nightclubs, since the latest mass on Sunday is the best for this which is often technically in the afternoon.

At one of the Sunday Morning Nightclubs, I picked up a hot chick. Let’s call her Molly. She’s in her mid to late 20s and obviously one of those women who decided to go back to church to look for a husband chump to marry. Thus picking her up was not difficult. We were having coffee (technically I don’t drink coffee, but that’s beside the point), and Molly tells me that she is a virgin and waiting to have sex until she is married. She wanted to be clear upfront so there’s no miscommunication down the line. I could tell Molly was full of BS on being a virgin, so I called her on it. She admitted I was right. What she’s really trying to do was “makeover” her life by taking morality “more seriously” so she’s going to wait until marriage for sex now.

I told her I was fine with this for several reasons. Many of you are wondering why because doesn’t this mean she won’t put out? She will put out, and it won’t be long before she does. I’m not even going to push the issue of sex. I am going to wait for her to beg me for it. I will not be waiting long. This way I will be able to show you how women who go to church in their late 20s/early 30s haven’t changed. They are just desperate for a chump before their looks fade…

Clearly, Molly has decided it’s time to find a proper husband, who she intended to deceive regarding her chastity. Why church? Because she knows that church is where men receive training regarding how to behave as husbands. Additionally, she knows that churches no longer treat marriage as a contract between those who enter into it and God, but rather a contract between the parties themselves, with God (whose advocate is the preacher) as the judge. And, as in family law, women will push the contract in their favor at every opportunity, resulting in ever more excuses for breaking it if she so chooses. As Dalrock has demonstrated, many Christian leaders will oblige her.

Given that most Western churches are funded mainly by women today, the situation is probably insoluble in the foreseeable future. As long as preachers are working for their mainly female congregants, they will inevitably begin to support the instinctive female tendency toward serial monogamy, and offer excuses for women who decide to leave their marriages for whatever reason. This isn’t really Christianity, but even preachers need to make a living, so there’s little that can be done.

If true Christianity is to survive, it may need to reintroduce some of the characteristics of the early church, including segregation by gender. Male-only services may be of some value, as would removal of women from the altar. Supplication for profit must be eschewed, too. It’s a tall order, and probably more than Western Christians are willing to take on. The future of Christianity in the Western world looks tenuous at best.

{ 93 comments… read them below or add one }

G.L. Piggy November 21, 2011 at 15:05

The Church is playing to it’s female base, correct. But why is the base skewed towards women in the first place? Is it because men were driven from the church or because men left on their own accord? Of course, the progression is probably a ratchet effect of both.

It is more likely that men don’t believe in this hocus-pocus and thus stay away from churches in the first place. We are less likely to be comfortable sacrificing our autonomy to a Flying Spaghetti Monster, so now that there are looser social bonds compelling us to attend church, we don’t.

So this leaves women and a few patriarchal men to run the whole operation. Given that the acrimony and strife that presents itself among the flock are largely issues that women confront i.e. spinsterhood or unhappy marriages churches offer solutions that seem to benefit women.

For all of the criticisms of the SoCon position on marriage and men, I feel something is missing. Christianity is based upon the fallenness of Eve and posits that she was a byproduct of man – through the rib of Adam. An evangelical religious service will involve readings from the Bible instructing women to obey their husbands. It is still fundamentally patriarchal, but it also ignores evolutionary developments. They hold both men and women to the same narrowly-defined morality though it is clear that men and women have different natures that create stronger or weaker urges towards certain behaviors. So within that narrowly defined window, men do run afoul of the church. Since we are driven by our stronger sexual desires, we fall outside of that boundary.

This is my long way of saying that if we want to criticize what the churches are doing we have better grounds to criticize the fact that they want us to submit to a religious hiearchy with a narrowly-defined moral script that begins with God/Jesus and moves down through pastors, priests, and deacons rather than the way they shepherd their flock of lambs. If you are Christian you buy into the frame that men and women are accountable to the same authoritative rules. If we reject that then we would reject the Church even before we consider how they handle men and marriage.

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Somehow Somewhat November 21, 2011 at 15:18

“When the Son of Man comes will he find faith on the earth?”

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John November 21, 2011 at 15:41

Scriptures for

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Attila November 21, 2011 at 15:51

Western Christianity, especially Protestantism, has done much to destroy the holistic view of man and facilitated the enthroning of instrumental reason and technology, and hence, the collapse of all non-mercantile values.

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Rusty November 21, 2011 at 16:03

“If true Christianity is to survive, … ”

Whoa, there, Pard. Who are these mythical beings, these Christians you speak of? I have been to two dozen churches now in my area and cannot find a one. I think they must only exist in the blogosphere, for it is only there I hear about them, and even then when someone writes about them under some pseudonym.

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Craig Himself November 21, 2011 at 16:18

I very much want to know your thoughts on Mars Hill Church, if you’ve heard of it and/or seen their/our frontman Mark Driscoll inaction.

Ten seconds of YouTube searching for “Mars Hill Church Mark Driscoll marriage men women” will dial up plenty of material to start making judgements.

It’s funny. On one hand, the married couples I know in the church really DO seem to be real deal Genuinely Married.

But on the other (if you’ll indulge me as I get my cynic on has hard as it’ll go), I remember reading on Roissy one day that “Clueless Alphas” were the most visible sub-set of White Knights, and I suspect that you’ll find, as I have, that Mark Driscoll matches that pattern perfectly. I’ve never once seen him acknowledge that if he hadn’t been a self-important asshole when younger, his hot blonde Pastors’ daughter wife-to-be wouldn’t have been throwing herself at him in the first place, praying for his conversion afterward on her walks of shame back home.

While Mark intentionally and openly designed Mars Hill to be male-friendly, I’ve never once seen him take young women to task for slutty behavior. Rather, they need to re-up with Christ and “break up with him in love.” Hm. Or rather, could it be that they simply know that softly is the only way to convince women to change their behavior at all? Eh.

PS: None of these theological or stylistic issues have any bearing at all on the question of whether Jesus’ tomb is empty.

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keyster November 21, 2011 at 16:19

Wives enlisted the government (legal and financial) and the church (social and moral), to help them better tame and keep men under control, (for the sake of the children).

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

You can’t imagine a church promoting this and remaining in business for long today. What we have is the Church of Female Entitlement informed by a secular pop culture. It’s Christianity al la carte as the times dictate. Remember you can’t destroy patriarchy if you don’t kill the church (and you can’t make the government the nu church either). Patriarchy, and man’s moral compass/societal obligations along with it, dies without the church.

That’s a stated tenet of Marxism and his sister Feminism. Destroy the church. Destroy the family. Destroy the free market system. And tear down the individual man one at a time, so that women may reign within the central government and lord over men. The plan is coming to fruition.

At least the more fundamental Muslim’s are loyal and faithful to the Koran (Sharia Law). Although feminist groups in those countries are starting to make “progress” as well.

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thesecond November 21, 2011 at 16:33

GL Piggy

As this poll shows, with 90% of men believing in god belief in god remains incredibly strong. The church just really sucks at appealing to them. It doesn’t have to be that way. The bible is quite clear on gender differences. Men serve as leaders, soldiers, farmers, while women as followers and prostitutes and mothers. The bible might not know about evolution but gender roles have long been obvious.

And the church resulted in a quite functional and generally pleasing place for people to live for quite a while. Most men got to have sex, families stayed together, and an immensely strong culture developed.

So much has changed.

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Alcuin November 21, 2011 at 16:34

Aidan Nichols, Criticizing the Critics, and David Murrow’s Why Men Hate Going to Church offer some analysis, though Murrow tends to be a nice guy towards women so is not always helpful.

I write about this at my blog as well.

Christianity has been focused on women and female spirituality, such as an affective and personal encounter with Jesus as a lover, for centuries. The fourteenth-century English mystics, such as Julian of Norwich and Margery Kemp, as well as the sixteenth-century Spanish mystics such as Teresa of Avila, played key roles.

Going to church is a feminizing experience. Going to a Catholic or evangelical bookstore is also an eyeopener, as the books are geared towards women and this affective spirituality. When I lived in a Muslim country and went into a religious bookstore, it was a very different experience.

As I’ve mentioned before, it’s almost unavoidable that Islam will fill the gap.

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Alcuin November 21, 2011 at 16:41

Christianity attempts to feminize men and turn us into foot soldiers for wives and families. It makes us into useful idiots. I can’t think of a man who has become a better man, more of a man, by going to church. But I’ve met countless men who became less by going to church.

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Alcuin November 21, 2011 at 16:44

In much of the discussion men have about the church and Christianity, we hardly mention doctrine. The problem is not with doctrine. The problem is with feminization.

Religion should make a man more masculine and a woman more feminine. Church does the opposite, so must be avoided.

While Orthodox Christianity doesn’t seem to have this problem, in most cities I’ve lived in, the Orthodox churches always had a Serbian or Greek community center attached. They tend to be too nationalistic, and don’t serve the wide community very well.

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Tom November 21, 2011 at 16:46

Of the ashes of contemporary Christianity will emerge a new religion that re-establishes gender roles and responsibilities, and has the balls to actually enforce them. My money is on Mormons (in America at least)..

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Rumour November 21, 2011 at 16:47

Men like Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Samson, David, Solomon, etc. would NOT be welcome in American churches (I don’t think they’d even want Jesus there) …

any more than say George Washington or Thomas Jefferson would be welcome in American government.

Western civilization itself is unsalvageable … the state and the church are just a part of the whole mess that is going under.

The sooner the better.

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Rumour November 21, 2011 at 16:56

@ Alcuin – “In much of the discussion men have about the church and Christianity, we hardly mention doctrine. The problem is not with doctrine. The problem is with feminization. ”

Few of the males that claim to be Christians allow themselves to become capable of understanding either doctrine or feminism.

But damn … American men know their armchair football. That’s gotta count for something right?

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Rocco November 21, 2011 at 17:29

Well this 40 year old feminist, Naomi Wolf, right on cue, wrote this anti porn screed when she’s just past her due date and men have gotten a clue….the few on campus anyway.


Relevance: She states at end of this lengthy retarded script something interesting:

“I will never forget a visit I made to Ilana, an old friend who had become an Orthodox Jew in Jerusalem. When I saw her again, she had abandoned her jeans and T-shirts for long skirts and a head scarf. I could not get over it. Ilana has waist-length, wild and curly golden-blonde hair. “Can’t I even see your hair?” I asked, trying to find my old friend in there. “No,” she demurred quietly. “Only my husband,” she said with a calm sexual confidence, “ever gets to see my hair.”

When she showed me her little house in a settlement on a hill, and I saw the bedroom, draped in Middle Eastern embroideries, that she shares only with her husband—the kids are not allowed—the sexual intensity in the air was archaic, overwhelming. It was private. It was a feeling of erotic intensity deeper than any I have ever picked up between secular couples in the liberated West. And I thought: Our husbands see naked women all day—in Times Square if not on the Net. Her husband never even sees another woman’s hair.

She must feel, I thought, so hot.”

Yes Alcuin, the answer is the moslem religeon and feminists are announcing they prefer it publically, but after they turn 40 and have rode 1000 rods.

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Davd November 21, 2011 at 17:41

Anything that caters to consumers and to the flow of money is not Christian, whether or not it says it is: Jesus taught explicitly: “No one can serve both God [Creator, Trinity, YHWH {which Jesus was entitled to utter aloud, and i am not}] and Mammon [greed, money, wealth]“.

“Christian” is a name easier to put on than to live-up-to.

Paul, one of the best preachers in the very early “church”, supported himself by tentmaking so as not to burden the people among whom he was starting new communities.

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Rebel November 21, 2011 at 17:50

As soon as women invade a segment of the job market, men vacate it.
As women have invaded the churches, it is time for men to vacate the churches. We must be on the road again , in quest for the Truth: it’s our destiny as men.

The time has come to create a new religion. We don’t have to wait until Christianity turns to ashes: maybe the new religion will be science.

I believe in one thing: if God exists, we will find Him and identify Him(or it) through science.
The old churches no longer satisfy the spirit of Men. Men have moved past that point, past that paradigm.

The fact that women have now taken possession of the Christian church(es) is proof that men are ready for something new, a new frontier: the continued search for the Ultimate Reality.
And that is what being Man is about.

We are indeed living in very exciting times. I honestly wish I was fifty years younger.

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G.L. Piggy November 21, 2011 at 18:09

the second:

As this poll shows, with 90% of men believing in god belief in god remains incredibly strong. The church just really sucks at appealing to them. It doesn’t have to be that way. The bible is quite clear on gender differences. Men serve as leaders, soldiers, farmers, while women as followers and prostitutes and mothers. The bible might not know about evolution but gender roles have long been obvious.

A Gallup poll three years ago found that 78% of people believe in God. Further, if we’re talking about Christian churches, we have to wonder what percentage of men and what percentage of women believe in the Christian God. Your Gallup poll showed a slight difference (4%) in female belief versus male belief which would lead us to believe that at the extreme end of the spectrum – the church attendee end – women would outweigh men in terms of attendance by more than that 4% belief gap. But as it stands, the gender breakdown of church attendance is about 58-42% – just as with college.

But I don’t think that churches necessarily craft their sermons and their politicism towards women just for the sake of it. Doctrine does not make a distinction between the innate differences in men and women. This is the most important failing of the church and the one that leads them to demonizing men, if that’s indeed the case. But I’d argue that church doctrine is church doctrine. It is absolute and seemingly unyielding.

Take pornography, which Dalrock mentions in his posts. Men look at porn a lot more than women. But the church frowns on porn. There is no distinction made between a man looking at porn and a woman looking at porn, but we all know that men are more apt to do it. We’re also more apt to lust after many different women. By the strict confines of church, men are “bad” while women are “good”. Within the frame of Church Doctrine, it pains me to say, churches are right. Using those metrics of badness and goodness, a higher percentage of men are bad compared to women. The problem is that we’re arguing within that frame, which is the wrong foot for us to get off on.

If you know that an institution frowns upon your behavior as a matter of doctrine then you’re naturally going to avoid being a part of that institution. But the entire bedrock of religion is based upon a common human morality without distinction for male tendencies and female tendencies.

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Zorro November 21, 2011 at 18:09

I mean no disrespect, but the plain fact is that the Christian Church (Protestant and Catholic alike) have become factories for the manufacture of white knights. There is no other source so powerful in the creation of Joe Bidens (and other eunuchs) than Christianity.

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Robert November 21, 2011 at 18:16

I was born into a Christian family. My mother is a Roman Catholic, and my father is a Baptist. I was baptized into the Roman Catholic faith. That being said, I attended both Catholic Mass, and the occasional Baptist fellowship. They both were equally infected with feminist/Marxist doctrine. Then, as fate would have it. I met my wife. While vacationing in Lebanon I met my future wife. In 2001 I converted to Islam and fully appreciate the atmosphere that Islam bring to the table. My wife is a liberal Muslim in many ways. In fact outside of Mosque she rarely wears the hijab. It was difficult for me at first. Being from a traditional European-American family, my mother had a hard time in coming to terms with my new faith. She has came around fortunately. Anyway, I am quite happy to have joined the family of Islam. Every man needs to find what suits him when it comes to spirituality. For me, it is Islam. I would never attempt to tell anyone how to view God. However, I highly recommend that men of similar background to that of me keep an open mind when it comes to Islam.

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Anonymous November 21, 2011 at 18:32

Is Christianity salvageable? Absolutely. Though as bad as things are now it may not seem so. But 50 years ago, did anyone ever think it could end up like this??

Yes, American Christianity will eventually reform. The bad news is that it won’t happen any time soon, and definitely not soon enough to improve the lives of any men that are old enough to read this message.

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Carnivore November 21, 2011 at 19:16

Traditional Roman Catholicism is, in theory, a very patriarchal religion. I say “in theory” because it depends on the specific parish or chapel. Anything associated with an RC diocese (i.e. Latin Mass only at noon on Sundays) is very risky. You’ll find the women in short hair and pants still calling the shots behind the scenes. The independent chapels are way better but there are so few across the USA and their congregations are usually pretty small. They still teach that a wife must submit to her husband. Oh, and not fulfilling the marriage debt (i.e. withholding sex) is a mortal sin which condemns the unrepentant sinner to hell. Also, there’s none of this “unless you are called to serve, not getting married is a sin” BS. Three states in life are recognized to which men and women can be called: religious (i.e. priests, nuns); married; single.

And yet, IMO, any young man living in the West and following any patriarchal religion (Traditional RC, Orthodox Judaism, Conservative Islam) still takes a huge risk in getting married. I’m repeating myself here, but marriage rests on a three legged stool, with the three legs being:
1. Religion
2. Laws
3. Cultural norms

In a rightly ordered society, all three of these legs support marriage and families with the father as the head. In the West, however, all three legs have been cut off – marriage is not supported at all. In fact, marriage is not just not supported, it’s skewed totally towards women.

The best a young man can do is restore one of the legs – a patriarchal religion. Unfortunately, laws and cultural norms still favor women and give her an out – a way to leave a religion and marriage, rob the guy blind and take away his children. The best option as I see it is MGTOW. So, I practice a patriarchal religion but can remain single and there is nothing seen as wrong with that.

I can easily see Christianity rising up again, but it will only happen after the old order collapses. It’s happened before.

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NWOslave November 21, 2011 at 19:19

This country was more or less built upon the true Christian faith. Yes, men do/did have a duty and responsibilty to their wives and children according to the original faith, but that duty is contingent upon the duty of the wife and children towards the father/husband. The faith has devolved into men still have the duty/responsibilty while women are pure and blameless reguardless of their action with no duty in return.

Except for a few pockets, the Christian faith is an almost exact parallel of modern day culture. To chase men away just add feminism. It’s amazing how quickly everything has happened. What’s wrong is now right and what’s right is wrong. Evil is now called good and good is called evil. If you think it’s a coincidence or an accident the Christian faith turned into the feminist faith, think again.

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Rebel November 21, 2011 at 19:32

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Davd November 21, 2011 at 19:52

Christianity is reformable, renewable — it is what it is, does not change in essence [though mis-perceptions arise and change] and salvage isn’t necessary, rather, reform. The church of Luther’s time, i would estimate, was as corrupt as the churches that pander to Feminism.

I live where men can subsist on that day or two a week of bread labour, that [as i believe "Futurist" remarked] men go beyond, only to support families. I’d like to see a household of Christian reformation men, and one of men’s-interest animators, develop here; and i can help out financially–no great amount by Toronto or Hongcouver or New York or even Seattle standards, but enough to make some difference here. I’ll try to compose a posting by the end of the week; the hard part seems to be contact links that aren’t open to interference by [unfriendly forces] that might also read public blogs.

We can revive Christianity along the model of “two or three gathered together in [Christ's] name”. We can develop a successor to what does rather seem to be a failing “Western society” [and yes, i did read Glubb's _The Fate of Empires_, and also about the rural estates and cloisters forming refuges for knowledge when Rome fell].

We can also have one [maybe more than one] enjoyable time[s] doing so, growing and eating fine food, restoring forests, reviving the arts of making beer, bread, cider, … reilshes, sausage, smoked meat, wine. And some of us who are younger than i, can graduate from the experience to found families.

If some “churches” have gone astray, Christ has not, and we need not.


@ Rebel —
– Uh, no–Mary was never God among actual Christians. Pelikan’s history of Orthodoxy will clarify that somewhat awkward aspect of the early churches.

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Bryan November 21, 2011 at 19:54

It is a sad sign of the times that the quality of women you find in church is often no different from the quality of women you might find in say a brothel or a bar.

At least the women in the brothels are honest about what they are. Most women who style themselves as Christians are just kidding themselves, and the dupes who are unfortunate enough to wind up with them.

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Curiepoint November 21, 2011 at 19:54

I think we need to remember that Christianity is not the church, and vise-versa. It’s a faith in the teachings of Christ. Throughout history, churches have tried to bend Christianity to secular desires, so what is happening now is not anything new. I am a Catholic, but it does not mean that I place the Pope above the Master’s words, and how I live my life. It is a shame that organized religion takes an errant path from Christ, but all earth-bound things are subject to corrupting influence. Wise men can see this and can distinguish truth from devisiveness and doctrine that does nothing but create factions. It isn’t easy, but nothing that is worthwhile is easy.

In a way, there is something truly laudable and truly heroic to be counted among a number who can tell the difference. I find it disturbing how femi-centric the churches have become, but I will not let it sway my faith. That way leads to evil influence. Those that spit upon you are not speaking for Christ; they speak from a different source of warped theology with the primary aim to destroy a man of faith.

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Bryan November 21, 2011 at 19:57

Isaiah 5

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of Yahweh of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

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PeterTheGreat November 21, 2011 at 20:16

“I view Islam as an offshoot of Judaism. I hear the same prophet names.”

Mohammed was a jew as his mother was jewish. So you are right in many ways.

“While Christianity was feminine from the start: Mary. A matriarchy at the onset.”

Wrong. It is very patriarchal as the scriptures teach man’s dominance over women. For ex: “Man was not made for woman, but woman for man.”

Mary teaches the submissive female virtues. Christ is the ideal man, strong, bold and manly.

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Zorro November 21, 2011 at 20:26

I am very hesitant to get involved with another man’s religion or politics. So please don’t take this as as more than it should be.

That Christianity is patriarchal in its structure does not abrogate the fact that it manufactures white knights. For many reasons, and I’m sure many Spearhead readers can cite Biblical quotes to support this claim, that manhood, fatherhood and–if you will–husbandhood–are overwhelmingly purported by the teachings of Christ. But it is in the confluence of Christianity’s ideology and teachings that men come to the notion that womanhood (the female of the species) is somehow holy and a chalice to be protected against stain.

Departing from religion and standing firmly on the grounds of evolutionary psychology: WRONG!

She is a human being, and is possessed of myriad flaws and weaknesses, as are men.

White knights are the result of an impulse of a man to elevate himself on the moral scale. Christianity impels this. As do other ideologies.

When we regard the other sex (whomever we are) through the prism of morality and religion, we subjugate ourselves to the yardstick of that ideology’s value structure. And then we fail to see ourselves as we truly are.

Men are supremely flawed. Women are supremely flawed.

When we view anyone through the prism of a religious value structure, they are no longer a human being. They become a device to support our ego-driven identity.

Confirmation bias.
The willful suspension of disbelief.

These are the three biggest weaknesses of being a human. And religion facilitates all three of them. Christianity more than any.

White knights, if you look closely at them, are overwhelmingly religious.

No offense intended.

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Attila November 21, 2011 at 21:26

@ Robert- Congratulations on “thinking and getting out of the box”!

While I have not converted- I have been consistently impressed by the politeness and decency of most of the Islamics I have met in the course of my daily rounds (taxi drivers, small business owners, professionals of all kinds). They just seem more approachable and emotionally intelligent, on average, than the so-called Christians. And I’ve met some from just about every Muslim country (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt, Mauritania, Palestine, Syria, Turkey, Iran, Sudan, Malaysia, India, Kyrgystan, Tajikistan, Azerbayjan, etc.) When I hear people badmouth Muslims in a blanket way- I just laugh.

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Matt Strictland November 21, 2011 at 22:55

I am not sure we even need Christianity. Looking at the demography only the 3rd world and marginal nations seem to be very religious. The US is maybe an exception but we are configured the same as the 3rd world. We just have a bit more stuff.

Maybe the West should either find a non Christian faith that suits our needs better or learn to have “faith” in reason and understanding and know that we actually can understand the biological basis for why people behave like they do and build societies that serve human needs instead of those of corporations or the rich.

As for the more abstract needs like belief in an afterlife or community rituals I am sure something can be created that will work as well as a millenniums old text .

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Annonymous November 21, 2011 at 23:55

You cant have christianity without morality Welmer … simply because you cant have morality with ideology.

Here is a woman decrying under-dressed slutts and their families whom accept such gauche mannerisms and crude boreishness in young girls. … But there is no outcry here, as there was an outcry when it was a police man asking young girls and their parents to heed the same advice:

Girls’ School Association head condemns ‘moral abyss’
By Hannah Richardson
BBC News education reporter

Girls are growing up in a “moral abyss” where being dressed in “mini-me” sexy clothing and wearing make-up is acceptable, a schools leader has said.

Parents who dress children in such clothes have themselves been let down, Girls’ School Association president Dr Helen Wright argued.

Such parents had grown up without “any idea of how to bring up a child”, she said.

Only education could break the cycle, she added.

Speaking at her association’s annual conference in Bristol, Dr Wright said she had long been concerned with the “seeming erosion of the innocence of childhood”.

And she said schools and parents were in the forefront of the battle against inappropriate images that were everywhere.

‘Sacred childhood’

The head teacher of St Mary’s Calne school in Wiltshire added: “In what sort of twisted reality is it acceptable to run pole-dancing classes for young children and advertise them with pictures on the internet, for instance?

“What hope have we got of safeguarding our children’s sacred childhood if they are knocked off their feet on the nursery slopes of life by an avalanche of images and malign influences?

“And make no mistake, this is what is happening.”

She added: “It is time to take up the drawbridge of the liberal dogma of the past which has left us with the moral abyss of the present.”

She continued: “If parents can’t see anything wrong in dressing up their children in ‘Future Wag’ T-shirts and letting them wear make-up, high heels and ‘mini-me’ sexy clothing, then something is intensely wrong in our society.

“I have no doubt that these are the parents who have been failed by the education system themselves.”

‘Bullying glamorised’

Last month, David Cameron held a summit at Downing Street on the commercialisation and sexualisation of childhood.

It follows the publication of a report into the issue by the chief executive of Mothers’ Union, Reg Bailey.

Dr Wright also criticised programmes like the X Factor, where she said contestants were “encouraged to be at each other’s throats”.

She said: “Qualities such as bullying and arrogance are glamorised and become synonyms for ambition and drive.

“Young people look up to these so-called stars, who have themselves been catapulted into a spotlight which can be far too much for them.””””

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Elusive Wapiti November 22, 2011 at 03:26

The title of this post was “Is Christianity Salvageable?”. In a word, I think “yes”. But maybe not in the States, as the languid and voluptuous Churchianity that passes for Christianity in the States will likely go the way of Christianity in Europe…rejected by apostates in favor of another god.

@ GL Piggy wrote:

“If you know that an institution frowns upon your behavior as a matter of doctrine then you’re naturally going to avoid being a part of that institution”

Shack. Putting aside feminized worship styles and an observed tendency to emphasize the victim (lamb) over the king (lion) in sermons, this quote I think helps ‘splain a bit why men are under-represented in church these days.

For I think Churchianity has no problem with highlighting male shortcomings. Men being self-aware as they are, are either going to accept being rebuked for their behaviors or they are not. If the latter, then they will not likely stay in a place where they are constantly being called on the carpet.

Conversely, I don’t think modern Churchianity is getting the job done with female shortcomings. Male-style promiscuity is frequent fodder for sermons; but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a pastor bring the Holy Hammer against female-style promiscuity, aka serial polyandry. Dalrock has nailed the tendency for churches to welcome the divorcee and the adulteress back into the fold with nary a blink.

Thus while male sins are called out, female ones are usually not; this condition may help explain the differential in male attendance.

Also, a previous commenter to this post linked male church attendance to families. This is a key insight, and I can attest that Church is an uncomfortable place for single men
..especially when men are called to join accountability groups whilst their single sisters are invited to Bible studies.

As marriage rates drop, I expect male church attendance to also decline over time.

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Ryu November 22, 2011 at 03:44

Christianity is not salvagable and for more reasons than just men’s rights.

It has become a branch of Christian Zionism, where xtians worship Isreal, the jews, and the church has been a powerful force in bringing the third world here to the US.

In midwestern congregations, they go to Africa, bring back a few charity cases, then they bring their family, and Minnesota ends up with 100K Somalians. Similar with the Hmong in Wisconsin, and again the Somalians in Maine. The church has sold this country and the West out.

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alpha November 22, 2011 at 04:27

any true religion is patriarchal – Abrahamic or otherwise

I am not Christian, but I believe the Church suffered serious internal bleeding after Vatican II

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Bryan November 22, 2011 at 04:34

People who trash Christianity because it was hijacked by international finance and is now part of the Israeli/zionist propaganda machine, in addition to being packed with manginas, what do they suggest? These people who suggest “scientific religion” what will they do when the self-styled scientists who insist “race is a social construct” and “gender is a social construct” crowd into their new scientific religion.

A religion is not made or broken on the behavior of those who style themselves as adherents, but on the basic doctrines, principles, and above all, the holy texts of the religion. Christianity and the religion of the ancient Israelites (prior to the hijacking of the religion of Yahweh’s Israelite people by the Edomites/Khazars) stands perfectly on its own.

A vehicle may be the best designed vehicle in the world with an excellent operators/owners manual, but if it is driven by an absolute moron then an “accident” becomes inevitable, but that cannot be taken to suggest the vehicle is somehow unsafe or unfit for the road.

As an organized religion, Christianity is in a very poor state today and the main issue with organized Christianity is the pathetic nature of most of the self-styled adherents/followers. As a doctrine/book Christianity is a spectacular and perfect religion because the Bible is the direct revealed word of God to man.

If the calculus professor tells you something, some process to work derivatives, and then on the test you do your own thing, discarding everything you were taught, and you subsequently fail the exam, you have no right to declare, “Calculus is garbage!” because you were told what to do!

Christianity is NOT to blame, but rather the self-styled adherents, the nominal Christians, those who occupy the pews but never crack open their Bibles, are the problem.

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Bryan November 22, 2011 at 04:48

@ PeterTheGreat

If you take things ever further, you can find a very close working relationship between Jews and Muslims in the early centuries. After the pagans in Gothic Spain converted to Christianity and cracked down on usury and prostitution (the main way the Jews were making their money in Spain at the time) the Jews ultimately went into North Africa and pleaded with the Moors to invade Spain, which prompted an occupation which lasted for 700+ years until the Reconquista of the 15th century. Of course the invasion was physically helped by the fact that Jews opened the gates of the strategically important city of Grenada in southern Spain. All of the churches were burned or converted to mosques but the synagogues were left unmolested, as though part of some pre-arranged deal.

Further east, in Constantinople, several Jews were found to have thrown open the gates to the armies of the Ottoman Turks. Cathedrals and churches were burned, looted, or changed into mosques, while synagogues were left unmolested.

It is my belief that Jews basically invented Islam (the Koran is remarkably similar to the Babylonian Talmud and contains a lot of Jewish Kabbalah to it) to use as a mechanism to unify the warring Arab/Moorish tribes from North Africa to the Near East, for the purpose of bringing them crashing down upon Christian Europe because Christian Europe presented them with a threat that pagan Europe had not.

It’s not a coincidence that Islam’s birth and Islam’s march across large parts of eastern and southern Europe began shortly after most of the Germanic tribes which had finished off the Western Roman Empire two to three centuries earlier, converted to Christianity and cracked down on usury loans and prostitution/pimping.

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Carnivore November 22, 2011 at 05:20

Regarding the “worship” of Mary – I have no idea what they are teaching in the local diocesan RC parish, or if Protestants are still repeating Jack Chick tracts, but this idea has nothing to do with the doctrine taught in Traditional RC chapels. She is honored because she said “yes” to serve God. However, she is also held up as a role model for women – modest, chaste, obeyed her husband Joseph, and filled the role of wife and mother in a very poor family. The typical Ameriskank would do well to attempt to imitate Mary.

Regarding porn – again, I don’t know what’s taught or how’s it’s covered in sermons at the local New Order RC parish or by evangelicals, etc. The impression I get from here and other blogs is that sermons hammer on men and only men. That’s not the Traditional RC teaching. Yes, porn is a sin. However it is also possible to be guilty of a sin that another commits. How? For example, if you assist (I’ll keep the get away car running while you rob the bank) or counsel (It’s a good idea to rob that bank), etc. Depending on the circumstances, it can be a more serious sin. So how does that apply to porn? Yes, a guy jacking off to a picture of a nude woman commits a sin. But it takes two to tango. The woman who allowed her picture to be taken and distributed is guilty of the more serious sin because it is public (e.g. available on the internet vs. the guy jacking off in private) and can induce many men to sin.

From what I read here and elsewhere, Christian churches are really messed up and best avoided, however there are pockets here and there, thinly spread, that are truly patriarchal and support male spirituality.

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King Alfred November 22, 2011 at 05:36

Is Christianity salvageable?

The real problem is that you are looking at “Churchianity” and you think you are seeing Christianity. You most certainly are not. Churchianity is a mutated monster that retains only a few vestiges of Christianity, resembling the original Christianity in little more than name. God said the following about Churchianity: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.”

Christianity, the sum of simple truths taught by Christ, is as powerful today as ever. The truth does not lose its validity simply because people ignore it. Christianity does not need to be saved. Eternal truth stands firmly on its own strength.

The real question that needs to be asked is, “can the people who subvert the teachings of Christ and build organizations using his name for their own gain be salvaged?”

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eib November 22, 2011 at 06:17

Christianity is not defined by gender, or whose interests it happens to have been warped to serve.
Christianity is defined by scripture, doctrine, and practice.
Knowledge of these can be attained independent of community, gender or social status or level of interaction.
I grow very, very tired of people who refuse to assert that Christianity has objective existence.

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eib November 22, 2011 at 06:20

Love your enemies, bless them who curse you.
That doesn’t mean surrender to your enemies.
That does not mean submit.
Just War is part of Christian doctrine, and I’d like to see some orthodoxy there.

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Rus November 22, 2011 at 06:24

It is unfortunate how dissimilar most Christians are to Christ.

Your answer does not lie in religion. At least, not in the christian religion.

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PeterTheGreat November 22, 2011 at 06:40

“That Christianity is patriarchal in its structure does not abrogate the fact that it manufactures white knights.”

Anything can be perverted. So you have to look at the Faith when it was not bound by Western egalitarianism. It is a manly faith that demands submission of women to their husbands. It is also up to us to practice it as delivered, not as sub/perverted.

“But it is in the confluence of Christianity’s ideology and teachings that men come to the notion that womanhood (the female of the species) is somehow holy and a chalice to be protected against stain.”

I don’t know where you get this. None of Christianity’s teaching, either Catholic or historic Protestant teaches this. It teaches that a woman should be a virgin at marriage, and stay true to her husband. This is not teaching that she is “holy”. Rather that she is to be pure and devoted only to her husband.

Rather the Faith teaches that women are deeply flawed. That it was Eve who caused the Fall. That women are to be submissive to their husbands as to God. That it is by childbearing they can be saved. That woman was made for man, and not man for woman. Etc.

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Anonymous November 22, 2011 at 06:43

Most folks wont read the Bible. They let others do it for them.

You don’t believe history repeats itself? Isaiah lived through what we are living through right now.

Ever hear of Joseph in Egypt? Earliest known FRA.
Baal worshipers in Phoenicia first feminist state, Jezebel failed to spread it to Isreal.

Bahhh just a. Bunch of rainbow farts eh. Good thing no one reads the Bible now, they would actually know how to deal with our current social ills.

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PeterTheGreat November 22, 2011 at 06:44

I should also add that St. Thomas Aquinas, in his Summa Theologica, the official exposition of Catholic teaching teaches that women are not the equal of man. That they do not have Reason as does a man. And that women were created as a complement to man, not his equal – though their souls are considered equal.

Man was made in the image of God. Woman was made in the image and from man. Quite a difference.

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TruthInAdvertising November 22, 2011 at 06:52

A quote from my Dad:

“For 25 years, I have been lectured every Sunday morning about how I’m not doing enough for my precious wife.”

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Carnivore November 22, 2011 at 07:22

Yeah and regarding the current state of affairs in the church, priests, bishops, popes, pastors, deacons, elders, etc., etc. past and present have a lot to answer for. God will judge them.

BUT, let’s not look too far afield either. I only know the RC point of view, but I’m certain the following story, slightly modified, could be repeated by protestants and evangelicals:
*Post-WW I, when the pope warned about the scandalous new fashions for women, our great-grandfathers said “Who’s this a$$hole in the white skirt telling my gf/wife how to dress. Besides, I get off on seeing more flesh.”

*When the pope warned about indecent motion pictures, our grandfathers said “Who’s this a$$hole in the white skirt telling me what I can and cannot watch? Besides, I get off on seeing more flesh.”

*When the pope warned about the “pill” turning our women into sluts, our fathers said “Who’s the a$$hole in the white skirt telling my gf/wife what she can and cannot do. Besides, now I can screw more women and not worry about an unwanted pregnancy.”

*And now the sons say “How come all women are sluts and I can’t find a decent girl to be my wife.”

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Jack November 22, 2011 at 07:27

I enjoy reading about the lives and teachings of the world’s great mystics and sages. Their are pearls of wisdom about how to practically live a noble, productive, and quality spiritual life found among diverse religions and philosophies. I don’t need or trust any established institution or clergy not to have their own selfish ego-based agenda they want to manipulate me to obey and contribute too.

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Common Monster November 22, 2011 at 08:05

That Sunday Morning Nightclub meme is hilarious… Makes me think maybe one reason women love going to church so much, and have come to dominate it, is simply because it’s one of the few opportunities left for them to play dress up, now that the rest of the culture has gone totally casual.

The Slutwalks are about kinda the same phenomenone in a way. Even the photos of some of the various OWS protests I’ve seen go across my TV screen show plenty of women who seem to view these as yet another occasion to dress the part in such a way as to call attention to themselves.

At some point, the basic Darwinian process of who reproduces the most has to come into play, with belief systems where the birthrate is low fading out and being supplanted (or overrun) by those that reproduce more. I think this favors the more trad-con belief systems which better support male vitality and energy and productivity, because they’re better at investing in women and child. It’s in this sense that “patriarchy” is really a front for fundamentally matrifocal concerns.

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Ken November 22, 2011 at 09:17

Christianity was always an alien creed to me personally.
Now as to why…..
1) I have had {straight} sex
2) I have money and property
3) I have physically defended myself in the past
Jesus of the Bible preached specifically AGAINST all three of these very natural facets of a man’s life. Hmmm…once again I wonder if such a suicidal doctrine was intentionally put upon our ancestors to herald societal confusion and upheaval? :)

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Rocco November 22, 2011 at 09:19

@ Common Monster

Even if the birth rate differential doesn’t do it look at success in child rearing. The only racial group in the US that doesn’t have it’s children learn to hate their father is the Asian population in the US.

Since the UC top university system on the west coast passed a law a few years ago outlawing racial and sexual quota’s UC Berkely, the best of the UC schools is now 55% Asian.

Asian culture, even two generations transplanted here, but knowing we are a perverse society, and the culture of Islam produce houses complete, families that help each others as a unit.

Ours is a house divided.

Look at China, they know that the divorce rate is rising and the wealth they are gaining is at risk. The first thing they did was attack the gold digger because she is the weakest link and will cause the downfall of the US.

It has destroyed my family… do you think I feel about it?

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Jay November 22, 2011 at 09:34

It is beginning the eventual slide into a philosophy to be studies rather than emulated. This is for the simple reason that christianity is simply laughable as a moral exercise. . .it hasn’t a scrap of anything resembling evidence as to being truthful and convinces people they are more important than they really are.

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keyster November 22, 2011 at 09:41

“Rather the Faith teaches that women are deeply flawed. That it was Eve who caused the Fall. That women are to be submissive to their husbands as to God. That it is by childbearing they can be saved. That woman was made for man, and not man for woman. Etc.”

This is exactly why the strident feminist derides and dismisses Christianity every chance she or he gets. They start it in academia through marxist/elitist intellectualism (Dawkins, etc.) and continue to promote it through mass media messaging (The Kids Are Alright, etc.).

There was purpose in the teachings of the ancients because their observations of man v woman were not clouded by the feminist indocrination and propaganda that’s taken society over the last 60 years. They understood women needed to be controlled and that it would be a man’s responsibility to do so.

Now that we’ve all been declared righteously “EQUAL”, equal “partnering” and so forth, we “progress” towards the role of government to enforce this. This is what feminists wanted despite lingering pockets of resistence, such as “old” patriarchal religion. While hippie women and dippie feminist men look towards “New Age” and “Goddess Culture” narratives to try and rationalize female equality (or superiority) as the “progressive” nu religion…the “religion of equality”.

We need deeper meaning, something beyond and bigger than self to cling to…because we sense it’s there. We can’t express it in words or even thoughts as much as we try. Spirituality existed before civilization itself; the Quest for Meaning is our essence. This “meaning” is not found in commericalized/commodified Christianity of these post-modern times, an outward source. It’s found inward, the Word used as guide posts.

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Mark Plus November 22, 2011 at 10:19

I’ve tried to argue with other atheists that patriarchal beliefs have an empirical basis which religious beliefs in general lack; we shouldn’t dismiss the former as irrational along with the latter.

Namely, that while we can’t observe or communicate with gods, men have had to live with women all along. Patriarchal generalizations about women derive from the experiences of countless generations which struggled for survival in a harsh world. If these beliefs cast women in a bad light, well, the results show that they work practically. Men didn’t invent these rules; in a way, the rules “invented” men (and women) by improving our odds of surviving.

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Rebel November 22, 2011 at 10:28

I remember the mid-fifties. I was still living in Belgium then.
And being a teen ager going to a catholic school, I had to attend sunday mass.

In the church, there were only women and children. Men did not go to church, neither did they feel the need for it. As far as women were concerned, it was a fashion show: women held no more religious beliefs than men did (I think everybody was, in reality, an atheist).

Since religion held no meaning at all, I dropped out of it at the earliest convienience.

The catholic church has fallen into obsolescence. It did a long time ago. But in America, the myth persisted for a few more years. I noticed that as soon as I immigrated to Canada: the people seemed to be completely under the control of the church. The priest was mighty powerful. People would point at me and say:”Look, this guy is an atheist!”. My stance was to ignore them and to see them as poor slaves who could not think for and by themselves.
Religions have been invented by men… for women.

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Rocco November 22, 2011 at 10:29


While we wonder ab0ut religeons we lost 50 years ago, the new religeon of secular humanism feels boy children are men, especially when a member of their “better than equal” groups is attacked.

But 19 year old girls are teens in need of protection on college campuses.

Here’s how much we love our children and by the way, if you look at the comments you will see that our GLBT whatever sisters and brothers will not be as kind as we in our “christian” values when judging those outside their group.

Here we have a 14 year old boy who is being sexually harrassed at school by an openly gay, flamer, so the boy does something stupid and shoots the gay kid.

This is not a man who has a history of anti-gay actions, this is a 14 year old child.

If the gay boy had done that to a girl he would be expelled for sexual harrasment.

Well, they tried him as an adult because if they didn’t the gay community would be up in arms.

He got minimum 25 years and the comments on CNN are so jubilant about the butt raping he will recieve. Some commentors went as far as to calculate the number of times this male child will be ass raped before his possible release at age 42.

Very christian society ours is, and don’t hope for christian benevolence from our new overlords.

This should be a mens rights issue: cease the torture of male children because you don’t like men.

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Smh November 22, 2011 at 10:47

Boys Swimming on Girls Teams Find Success, Then Draw Jeers

“Higgins, a senior, and Rodriguez, a sophomore, are among roughly two dozen boys competing on girls teams in Massachusetts because their schools do not have boys swimming programs. They are able to do so because of the open access amendment to the state constitution, which was voted into law in the 1970s and mandates that boys and girls must be afforded equal access to athletics.”

“‘It’s really frustrating to see how athletic directors and school administrators aren’t doing anything,” she said. “They really aren’t advocating for us. I understand there isn’t an opportunity for these boys, but it infuriates me that they can’t combine two schools’ boys to create one team or have them compete in separate heats. The way it is now, the boys are taking recognition away from girls who have worked hard and deserve it.’”

Women weren’t complaining when girls were being put on boys wrestling teams. You can’t have it both ways. Im sure Massachusetts will start giving girls a 20 second head start.

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Legarto Rey November 22, 2011 at 10:49

keyster’s all over it. Mankind, throughout the ages has returned to /rediscovered(perennial philosophy) the timeless gnosis of the Devine that eludes ANY attempt at rational/physical description. Behavior of the sexes does indeed abide by natural laws(evo psych/bio) and is often readily described/predicted by HONEST observation and inquiry. Canned religion feels empty and corrupt exactly as it IS. The “Word” is indeed within us/it ALL. Science, by design refrains from adressing the Devine, staying within the physical/observable realm. Women as a rule(many men also), are incapable of recognizing that their “essence” has no identity, is timeless, placeless and eternal. Aside from genuine religious primitives, women have co-opted oraganized religion as yet another weapon in their misandric arsenal!

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American November 22, 2011 at 10:53

Gender-Raunch don’t want anything that teaches morality.

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American November 22, 2011 at 10:59

The Gender-Raunch community are slowly purging hetero-sexual dominance from law schools across America.
The ones that are now at real risk of losing their constitutional rights of free speech are Americas religious communities

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Rocco November 22, 2011 at 11:28


Openly lesbian prime minister of Autralia legalizes false allegations of any kind regarding children effectively gutting Australia’s 5 year shared parenting experiment.

It’s now law.

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Rus November 22, 2011 at 11:55

Lets compare christianity to the old norse religion, just for kicks.

The vikings had 3-4 gods of war, depending how you tally them.

It is said that Thor protected travelers. But in order to gain his protection you first had to be in a position where you would need it. This typically meant being out on the open sea in a storm. In other words the old gods helped those who were brave and strong.
Christianity on the other hand helps those who are weak and in need.
Old religion favors strength and bravery, new religion favors weakness and helplessness.

It is said that the first church on Greenland was built by the wife of Erik the Red (who was exiled from Iceland for killing people).

The Danish vikings conquered Sweden, Norway, England and a bit of Germany. They did this not through superior strength or cunning or tactics, but primarily through a deep cultural belief in strength and courage from which all the above and more springs.

Their christian descendants did not.

Religion plays a part in a stable and healthy society. But it can also play a part in the downfall of an empire and a golden age. Christianity will not help us. It is weak. Only through a renewed faith in the strong man can we overcome the crisis facing us.

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Matt Strictland November 22, 2011 at 12:17

To Ryu’s upthread remark.

Christianity has always been a branch of Judaism as its roots come from the same tree.

Jesus after all was a Jew and the faith that grew up around his teachings was just an inclusive heterodox Judaism with socialist trappings

The later anti-Semitic movements in essence were and are more of an intra-doctrinal dispute thing , a war on heresy rather than intra-religious ones.

At the roots Christian Values are Jewish ones. 10 Commandments, passivity ,social values and all that.

As such it makes sense for Fundamentalists to cleave to Israel.

And Rus above implied if we want Western ones, we need a Western religion, rather than a Semitic one or we can roll our own.

Now most of the newer Pagan ones have been influenced by feminism and Christianity but you can’t have everything.

As for Christianity, well again Rus is on to something. Its really about passivity, thats why 3rd world countries rulers (like the US is configured) often love it. Do you want a fearless population. Its awfully hard to dominate them.

Trying to get back to a more vigorous masculine form what the Muslims call Crusader Christianity is not going to happen. Its very unlikely that Europe will be Christian again, heck Ireland ended diplomacy with the Vatican. Ireland! one of the most religious nations in Europe.

Beyond that the US is not going to lead an army of mixed third worlders on some mythical 1oth Crusade.

Lastly, Christianity is inherently hierarchal in its traditional forms and I don’t know about y’all but serfdom does not appeal to me.

Just my opinion, we need some form of Modern Paganism that partakes of an understand human nature, teaches bravery and honor and action as well not treating being human as evil .

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 14
Bryan November 22, 2011 at 12:21

Carnivore November 22, 2011 at 07:22

More than that, then those same old people yell at young men such as myself and demand to know, “why aren’t you married! I was married and had two kids by your age!”

I just want to say, “I’m not married because you helped a generation of women to be whores and those whores raised up new whores, and now that is the situation us decent folks are faced with today… Thanks you self-styled Greatest Generation for raising the worst generation! It speaks to your greatness!”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 39 Thumb down 1
Bryan November 22, 2011 at 12:24

Those who say Christianity rewards weakness and helplessness… Five virgins were unprepared and had no oil for their lamps, they were told off by the five who were prepared, no oil was shared, and the five without oil did not arrive in time and were turned away by the bridegroom!

Read Matthew Ch 25

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3
Bryan November 22, 2011 at 12:31


Those so-called men on CNN, who laugh at the idea of a man being raped in prison, they need to go off and die because they are of no value to anybody.

Nobody laughs at the idea of women being raped in prison. I’ve never heard anybody say, “Hahahaha take that bitch, have fun getting plowed in prison by the guards!”

As far as it goes, a man who vaginally rapes a female violates her (to an extent, it is much worse if she was a virgin, then he violates her, her father, and lessens/destroys her marital value, but how many women are virgins much past age 16-17 these days?) but his crime is not particularly damaging, she can recover readily enough. When a man is subjected to a rape/sodomy by another man, he is physically brutalized and he is going to be left socially damaged for life as he will never be treated like a “real” man if it becomes known what happened to him.

The epidemic of prison rape, in regards to men being raped, should be a topic worthy of special editions on CNN as well as documentaries, instead we hear about how millions of women are being raped on college campuses and how 90% of all rapes go unreported and how it is time to TAKE BACK THE NIGHT!!!!!!!!


Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 1
Rmaxd November 22, 2011 at 13:31

Actually I love the fact men are deserting churches

Less morals means more more chavs, more thugs & less husbands for Christian Sluts

As faras im concerned, the average atheist thug’s payback for the years of feminism, & the destruction of our entertainment industry through feminist propoganda tv

Every feminist single mother thanks to atheist thug, payback for every SINGLE episode of friends ,will & grace & feminist propoganda sitcom ever aired

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 6
American November 22, 2011 at 14:25

The Gender-Raunch community have received most of their “Empowerment” from the now institutionalized protocol perversions and semantics games from American law enforcement who refuse to hold women accountable for their violence.
Without holding women and girls accountable, the criminal statistics law enforcement then produce are “Perverted”.
Gender-Raunch take these faulty and inflammatory statistics, and inflame their way to “Empowerment” from them.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5
Annonymous November 22, 2011 at 14:36

Every now and then CNBCs Charlie Rose interviews notable TV guests and speakers. The theme of amorality and unethicality persistently comes up regarding western capitalism and business practice.

Some guest speakers and special audiences readily ascribe symptoms of corporate and even state bankruptcy and indebtedness to increasing moral decay.

But no one, not TV pundit, nor politician, nor church leadership, dares trace the social degeneracy and moral decay they see and witness, to genderism and feminism, … cultish sicknesses and phenomena which are wholly un-christian, un-ethical, un-charitable and un-sustainable.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0
Tom November 22, 2011 at 15:26


Jesus apparently agrees with you. See revelations Chapter 2 and 3.

If you’re interested, read the above sections of the bible or just google seven churches prophecy. (Most of the secen churches are not going to be recognised by Christ.)

This is a prophecy that references both historical churches and the different state of Christianity through the ages. Some of the stages are now extinct, some are still going and some are not going to heaven.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
PeterTheGreat November 22, 2011 at 15:31

“If you take things ever further, you can find a very close working relationship between Jews and Muslims in the early centuries. ”

I have read this before. A very interesting work in this regard is The Plot Against The Church, by Maurice Pinay.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
will November 22, 2011 at 20:38

How do you respond though to a person that says: although woman should submit to the man. Husband and wifes should submit to one another.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3
American November 23, 2011 at 06:38

God speaks to young men through their heart and conscience. Gender-Raunch who dominate Americas schools put young boys on ritalin drugs which in effect blot of the hearts and consciences of these young men. Gender-Raunch has stripped their very souls.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 4
American November 23, 2011 at 06:39

correction…(in effect blot out)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
Geography Bee Finalist himself November 23, 2011 at 08:50

To answer the question that is the title of this piece:

Probably not, and to varying degrees of (im)probability depending on whether or not one is Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, LDS, Jehovah’s Witness, Coptic Christian, or another denomination under the “Christianity” umbrella.

Since religious affiliation is not an immutable trait, keeping people within a particular flock would logically require a certain amount of pressure (disinheritance or passive-aggression), force (similar to Saudis’ loss of citizenship if they renounce Islam), or outright violence in forcing conversions into any Christianity denomination from outside Christianity.

While Christians may display tolerance towards non-Christians in personal interactions between members of the two groups, there are disincentives to becoming a Christian for non-Christians.

As an example, Muslims who become Christians would have to get used to Christian holidays that do not bounce forward ten days every Gregorian calendar year. Thus there would be a corresponding absence of gradual meteorological changes during the Christian holidays, so north of the tropics in many locations Christmas Day will not be above 10 degrees C or 50 degrees F where as Eid-al Fitr would likely have variable weather during the lifetime of a Muslim who lives past thirty-seven years of age. Where I am in the world, almost every Christian who celebrates Christmas on December 25 is irritated if it snows before Thanksgiving and if there is no snow covering the grass on Christmas Day.

Christians unfortunately are also not united in who is considered a Christian and who is not. There are plenty of non-Mormons who do not consider Mormons to be “real” Christians and who do not consider Jehovah’s Witnesses to be “real” Christians as well. The possibility that Christians are unable to resist the temptation to have a pecking order of intensity or authenticity of Christianity may be their own worst enemy.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
Attila November 23, 2011 at 11:06

Most Xtianity has morphed into plain old Xtian-Zionism … they seem busier worshipping the Jews and the Jewish state more than God/Truth. Islam, along with Hinduism are two remaining Zio-conscious religions—there is no room for the concept of “chosen people”.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 5
woggy November 23, 2011 at 13:55

“Most Xtianity has morphed into plain old Xtian-Zionism … they seem busier worshipping the Jews and the Jewish state more than God/Truth.”

Well said Attila. Interestingly enough, the churches’ fixation with and worship of Zionism began at roughly the same time that feminism began making inroads in “patriarchal” Christianity.
In my own opinion, one error is symptomatic of the other, and they are mutually dependent…i.e. the non analytical, soft headed thinking required to allow that those that hate Christ are still God’s “chosen” comports perfectly with the “I want to have my cake and eat it too” type thinking that undergirds feminism.

My brother and I were discussing “what’s wrong with Christianity/marriage?” just two days ago.
He assigned huge importance to the gay marriage issue- as if those who hijacked the institution (my opinion) are responsible for it’s impending doom.
Uh…no, my bro, hetero marriages have been under serious attack for four decades in every concievable venue, including the feminist Pentecostal/Evangelical/every flavor Baptist churches. (My brother attends some sort of Pentecostal church where the women run most everything)
Since I had just welded up an exhaust part for my nephew’s car ( he’s college tuition broke- preparing himself to perpetuate “Christian” feminism and man slander as a pastor), I figured he owed me a listen.

He posited “in our( he and his wife) church, women are at least 60% of the congregation…it’s not the women’s fault that men won’t step up to the plate…yada yada ya”.
Says I “have you ever considered that your church is a very woman- friendly place, where their own life’s indiscretions are blamed on the men with whom they had the kids they drag to the meetings? (Only a man fearful of marital celibacy would sit through that and obediently grunt an “amen” when the preacher says “man up”) ….
“yeah but those women WANT men to lead” he said.
“No”, I quipped…”they want men to stand up front and tell them what they want to hear (in other words, do their dirty work, just like the cops on a DV call) , otherwise my own church (which insists on male leadership, insists that women cover their heads and be silent during worship, and is generally accused of being very patriarchal/misogynistic) ” would have women flooding the doors every Sunday, clamoring for male leadership.
There are a few women where I worship- very few. Most women hate the place PRECISELY because of the stand taken against feminism.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 1
PeterTheGreat November 23, 2011 at 15:41

will @

“How do you respond though to a person that says: although woman should submit to the man. Husband and wifes should submit to one another.”

Simply that we have to play by God’s rules, and He said women must submit to their husbands.

The question is obviously an attempt to sidestep female responsibility, and cannot be dodged if you want a good marriage.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Attila November 23, 2011 at 15:41

One doesn’t need to convert to anything in order to learn from it.

The thing that one can learn from Islam is the uncompromising view that nothing is absolutely true except the Supreme/God- which happens to be called Al-lah in Arabic – hence the thorough lack of fawning over particular nationalities, ethnicities, cultures, etc.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Rmaxd November 24, 2011 at 02:11

Oh please, Western Muslim women are just as slutty as atheist & christian western women

Just like christian women, muslim westernised women are hundreds times more bitchier then atheists, because of the insane women are holy crap, muslim women are fed as they grow up

They also hilariously like ALL western women, cant take it when you’re bitchy back to them, bursting into tears or calling their bf for support hysterically

You see the exact same thing with women in the manosphere, retards like susan walsh, going on about her machette to censor comments, whenever somebody criticises any of her regular slutty whitewashing articles

Or even worse, retarded Black catholic women trying to pose as moral crusaders, while hysterically wailing at mra sites

The one thing ALL of these muslim, christian, atheist women have in common, theyre all westernised sluts

They all bought into the I need to sleep with as many retards as possible, or im not happy bs from watching hordes of sitcoms & porn for women

You bitches need to realise you’re being scammed by a consumer driven society, the more guys you bang the more emotional baggage you have, the more garbage you buy to make up for being vacous sluts & whores

The more stuff you buy, the more debt & credit you have to pay off as a wage slave

But of course the average woman isnt happy, theres no drama if the whores arent screwing themselves over

Theres no emotional reward if youre not being bitchy or hysterically crying over every irrational bs

For the typical western woman, there is no reward for being a decent mature moral woman, when the slut down the street’s getting cash prizes by feminists & retarded cheering from black inbred catholic women

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
Phil November 24, 2011 at 17:51

The “gender-raunch” guy is still here. If there is one phrase that I will NEVER use in my life, it will be “gender-raunch”. Can’t you write something else besides that phrase? You do the same at other sites too.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
MWPeak November 25, 2011 at 06:53


“Wives enlisted the government (legal and financial) and the church (social and moral), to help them better tame and keep men under control, (for the sake of the children).”

I would say that the wife enlisted the government against the church. Where the church would not recognize equality and women’s rights, the government did and the church succumbed to the power of a state-instituted culture.

The same thing is happening with other group rights as well.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
American November 25, 2011 at 08:19

Using the term “Gender-Raunch” in a room full of folks from the Gender-Raunch type community, is similar to turning a light on in a dark room filled with cockroaches., they quickly scurry from the light.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
American November 25, 2011 at 08:35

The beast was omnipotent until someone called his name “Beelzebub”. Kinda similar to the power of the Gender-Raunch community; they are omnipotent until someone calls them by their name.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
Anonymous November 25, 2011 at 08:50

On another note, a five-years old boy is arrested, handcuffed and charged with battery against a policeman:

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
happy one November 26, 2011 at 14:29

As far as the parable of the ten virgins goes, a lot of people miss the point with that parable… The true importance of that parable is in the winnowing out of HALF the number of those who expected to be admitted in to the wedding party but were not. Half of the “church” will not be ready when Christ returns for his bride. Well over half really, if you start studying into things the number of those who will be considered a part of the Bride of Christ when He returns gets vanishingly smaller and smaller.

I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness but they might not have been too far off when it goes to how small a number will be ready at the time He comes for the catching away.

–happy one

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
American November 27, 2011 at 06:24

Annonymous November 22, 2011 at 14:36

Every now and then CNBCs Charlie Rose interviews notable TV guests and speakers. The theme of amorality and unethicality persistently comes up regarding western capitalism and business practice.

Some guest speakers and special audiences readily ascribe symptoms of corporate and even state bankruptcy and indebtedness to increasing moral decay.

But no one, not TV pundit, nor politician, nor church leadership, dares trace the social degeneracy and moral decay they see and witness, to genderism and feminism, … cultish sicknesses and phenomena which are wholly un-christian, un-ethical, un-charitable and un-sustainable.

ISAY…Sir, its a pleasure to witness a great mind who can penetrate the mass confusion that organized “Gender-Raunch” fill American airwaves with!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
stonelifter November 27, 2011 at 07:28

If you define Christianity by the buildings and the women and emasculated males who fill the building then no, it won’t survive. But the Word of God will go on forever, and it going strong in the hearts of many men who have left the buildings and eunuchs behind.

I can’t began to count the number of Godly men I know who no longer go to church, but still fear the Lord. Instead of church they commune with the Almighty in deer-stands, before patrols and other ways that speak to them in masculine terms.
Ken the Bible does not condemn protecting yourself or acquiring wealth.

Rus, the pagan Norse didn’t conquer the world; Christians conquered the pagans and then Christian White man took on the world. Which one seems weak and passive now? I also wonder if the folks who advocate a return to pagan ways could actually survive it?

I’ve got a life time of experiences with moslems and islam to counter any positive comment about the faith or the people.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
Jacko November 27, 2011 at 15:56

Carnivore’s comments on this post are excellent. I hope he starts his own blog some time. There’s been a significant void in the MGTOW part of the manosphere since the Biblical Manhood blog ceased operation over a year ago.

There’s actually no conflict between Christianity [the authentic variety] and MGTOW. If you go to a church run by a mangina/white knight, just go and out and find another church.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
thatAndrew December 5, 2011 at 19:19

Those who have ears to hear, as God implicitly told the former Saul of Tarsus…
“In the Latter Days perilous times will come” namely the rise of the “phantasm counterfeit” revealing itself in the guise of feminist pandering Christendumb.

“… True, the status of women in the Middle East is not different to any (great) degree than their status in nearly all Western Nations (including the UK & the USA) until the late 1800?s; and nearly all women in Asia until after WWI. So one could make the case that what exists statuswise regarding women in the West (and Asia) is but a fluke or abberation amounting to one grain of sand in the bucket of sand of Humanities’ cultural timetable…. doesn’t count for nothing (grin)…”

Ahh… the Good Ole’ Days:

I do believe what we are almost entirely stuck with out here in the West is actually open-end relationships with defacto Mistresses (Serial Monogamy… or semi-Monogamy… grin), Soulmate or otherwise, who in most cases exceed the Scriptural definition of whore (2+ men prior to husband) by a CAPITAL W.

Don’t shout me down because I’m preaching good.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Alphalady December 9, 2011 at 17:32

I have just recently discovered Dalrock. This blog certainly makes up for the “man-bashing” by engaging in wanton woman-bashing. I have never witnessed such blatant male bitterness and misogynistic musings in my life!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2
CraigS February 28, 2013 at 02:03

Something I just wrote that bears on this conversation:

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