Child support is typically framed as state intervention on behalf of children. However, it is more accurately an alternative to marriage for women. Traditionally, women would find a man willing to formally commit to them before having children. By marrying (and staying married to) the man who would be the father of her children, women would ensure investment from the man and the provision of resources both to her and her children. Note that child support isn’t needed in the traditional model, and that it isn’t relevant in the case of the death of the father. Even in the case of divorce, child support isn’t needed if parents share equal custody. Where child support is needed is if women want to expel the father from the household (or never bring him in). When the facade of Its for the children! is stripped away, child support is all about removing fathers from the lives of their children.
If anyone has any doubt as to the true purpose of child support, they need only look at how it is enforced in practice. In theory whichever parent can better raise the children should be given custody, and the remaining parent would then be compelled to pay child support. In practice it is almost exclusively a way for women who expelled their children’s father from the home to extract money from the man. While the law is written under the guise of being gender neutral, this is a sham; the system is strongly biased towards women at nearly every step of the process. I’ve created a separate post to share all of the data, but here is a quick summary:
Mothers are far more likely to receive custody (over 80% of custodial parents are mothers). Those few fathers who receive custody are less likely than custodial mothers to have support awarded to them. Those fathers who have support awarded to them have less awarded on average than mothers. Due to all of the biases in the system, roughly 90% of all child support dollars are paid from fathers to mothers.
But still there are those who will claim this isn’t about money, it is about the best interest of the child. They say this even though the money goes to the mother, not the child, and the mother is under no legal obligation to spend the money on the children. If it were about the best interest of the child, the system would concern itself with maintaining the child’s relationship with the non custodial parent. But while the system is draconian in its enforcement of money (which almost always goes to the mother), it is generally uninterested in enforcing visitation (which almost always would be for the father). If the system were about protecting the child, it would enforce support and visitation equally. A parent who denies visitation is denying their child access to their parent. A system acting on behalf of the child would work vigorously to ensure that the child isn’t denied something which money can’t buy; access to and guidance from their father.
Not only does the system not take vigorous action to ensure that visitation orders are enforced, the system is designed to estrange fathers from their children. It uses draconian measures on the father while acting in the name of their children. Support is said to be based on the income of the father, but often it isn’t the father’s actual income which is considered. The court will often make up a figure which it assumes the father should be able to earn, and assign (impute) that income to him when setting the amount of support to be paid. W.F. Price described his own experience with this in the comments section of a recent Spearhead post:
There is really no cap on % of income a man can be ordered to pay. Being unemployed when my ex divorced me (she demanded I indulge her and help her get the job she wanted by watching the kids, and I stupidly went along with it thinking this would be temporary and would save my marriage), I was imputed, and therefore the child support was infinity percent of my income. I was imputed at the standard earning for a man my age in Washington state, despite the fact that we were in a recession and nobody was hiring.
There is no limit, therefore. Inability to pay is no excuse. You might as well be asking for mercy from the mob. I watched “The Departed” recently, and when one of the bookies said he didn’t have the money the enforcer said “this is America — make it” after beating the crap out of him. This is exactly how fathers are treated.
Keep in mind that men can be thrown in jail for failing to make these payments. Fathers all around the country are put in jeopardy of going to prison for money they don’t have, based on actions which are taken in the name of their own children. Undoubtedly the vast majority of fathers make every effort to not allow this injustice to poison their relationship with their children, since they know that their children are merely pawns being used by the child’s mother and the system. However, this kind of heavy handed tactic combined frequently with denial of time with and influence over their children has to impact the relationship negatively. Not surprisingly fathers who are less cut off from their children are more likely to pay support. In 2007 the Census found that 78% of non custodial parents who had joint custody and/or visitation privileges with their children made their payments, compared to 67% for those who didn’t have either (source, P9).
But the ultimate proof of what child support is all about is the end result for children. While there is a grain of truth to the old canard that divorce is caused by philandering or abusive men who either abandon or mistreat their children, the vast majority of divorces are actually requested by women. Professors Margaret F. Brinig and Douglas W. Allen set out to understand why this was in their paper “These Boots Are Made for Walking”: Why Most Divorce Filers Are Women:
Because of the financial and social hardship faced after divorce, most people assume that generally husbands have instigated divorce since the introduction of no-fault divorce. Yet women file for divorce and are often the instigators of separation, despite a deep attachment to their children and the evidence that many divorces harm children.
Here is what they found (emphasis mine):
Our results are consistent with our hypothesis that filing behavior is driven by self-interest at the time of divorce. Individuals file for divorce when there are marital assets that may be appropriated through divorce, as in the case of leaving when they have received the benefit of educational investments such as advanced degrees. However, individuals may also file when they are being exploited within the marriage, as when the other party commits a major violation of the marriage contract, such as cruelty. Interestingly, though, cruelty amounts to only 6% of all divorce filings in Virginia. We have found that who gets the children is by far the most important component in deciding who files for divorce, particularly when there is little quarrel about property, as when the separation is long.
Keep in mind that getting custody not only determines which parent has their children ripped away from them, but that because of the child support system the children also often come with a hefty payment stream the ‘winning’ parent can spend however they want. The ‘loser’ on the other hand is compelled at risk of imprisonment to pay amounts which can exceed their actual ability to earn. While this money is extracted from them in theory on behalf of their children, it robs them of their ability to be seen as wanting to take care of their children. Fathers can’t spend money on their children which the mother has already taken by force. Making this winner take all game even more lopsided, in the US the receipt of the payments is considered tax free, since the support payer must pay the income tax on it.
This system which is supposedly about the children encourages mothers to expel their children’s fathers from their lives. One divorcée explains how many women think about this:
The problem with my life, as I saw it then, was my husband, and I imagined divorce as a process that would remove him but change little else — a sort of neutron bomb that eliminated men but left the rest of the world intact.
But divorce is only one way that child support encourages women to become unwed mothers single parents. The direct route to unwed motherhood is to simply get knocked up without getting married. This wouldn’t have guaranteed unwed mothers child support in the past. However, the rules were changed in the latter part of the 21st century, as Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers explain in their paper Marriage and Divorce: Changes and their Driving Forces:
Supreme Court rulings in the 1960s and 1970s also changed the nature of family relationships by eliminating many of the legal distinctions stemming from the marital status of a child’s parents. In 1968, the Supreme Court ruling in Levy v. Louisiana (391 U.S. 68) granted equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment to “illegitimate” children. Five years later, the 1973 ruling in Gomez v. Perez (409 U.S. 535) overturned state laws exempting men from financial responsibility for “illegitimate” children. These rulings reduced both the social and economic cost to women of bearing a child out-of-wedlock…
Not surprisingly, this along with welfare payments has lead to an explosion of children being born out of wedlock. You can see the impact in the chart below from NCHS Data Brief No. 18 May 2009, Changing Patterns of Nonmarital Childbearing in the United States:
The 2011 Statistical Abstract of the United States provides the breakdown of out of wedlock births by race (Table 86 pdf or image) for 2007, the latest year data is available. 40% of all babies born in the US in 2007 were out of wedlock. This figure was 51% for Hispanics, 28% for whites, and 72% for blacks. The US isn’t exceptional for its out of wedlock birth rates either:
But the direct approach to unwed motherhood isn’t preferred by all would be baby mommas. Some have a strong sense of tradition, and prefer the classic approach of marrying the father and then divorcing him after the children are born. Fortunately for them child support along with biased family courts makes this nearly as easy as the direct approach. As an added bonus, they get to attend a big party held in their honor, where they (get this!) promise in front of everyone they know to stay married to the father for life. This more classic approach to baby mamma-hood is also on the rise, as you can see in Figure 1 in Marriage and Divorce: Changes and their Driving Forces.
Divorce has gone from almost unheard of to extremely common. According to the US Census 2009 SIPP data, 39% of all white women aged 50-59 had divorced at least once. This works out to 42% of all white women that age who ever married. For Hispanic women the figures are 27%&30%, and for Black women the figures are 38%&48%.
All of this action supposedly in the interest of children has resulted in millions of kids growing up with little or no access to their fathers. A small percentage of these kids are better off because of the system. They had fathers who either abandoned them or were abusive. Far more have lost something irreplaceable; the chance to grow up with both their mother and father (chart source):
There is a huge body of research showing how detrimental this is to children. In the interest of space I’ll only share one small quote from Dan Quayle Was Right (emphasis mine):
Even for fathers who maintain regular contact, the pattern of father-child relationships changes. The sociologists Andrew Cherlin and Frank Furstenberg, who have studied broken families, write that the fathers behave more like other relatives than like parents. Rather than helping with homework or carrying out a project with their children, nonresidential fathers are likely to take the kids shopping, to the movies, or out to dinner. Instead of providing steady advice and guidance, divorced fathers become “treat” dads.
Apparently–and paradoxically–it is the visiting relationship itself, rather than the frequency of visits, that is the real source of the problem. According to Wallerstein, the few children in the California study who reported visiting with their fathers once or twice a week over a ten-year period still felt rejected. The need to schedule a special time to be with the child, the repeated leave-takings, and the lack of connection to the child’s regular, daily schedule leaves many fathers adrift, frustrated, and confused. Wallerstein calls the visiting father a parent without portfolio.
This is built into any child support scenario, and simply cannot be changed or wished away. The profoundly negative result of fatherless children is widely acknowledged, even by those who enthusiastically support the new family structure child support encourages. However, instead of blaming the process which created the problem, most now blame the very fathers who had their children ripped away from them. This is the final insult by a system which sees fathers as no more than a walking wallet. Instead of blaming the concerted social push to allow women to raise children outside of marriage, the fathers themselves are blamed for being absent! Following the London riots many have pointed out that a major cause of the out of control youths is a lack of fathers. The headline of The Telegraph reads:





{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }
Child “support” is a Liberal Democrat Party euphemism for funding a disloyal wife’s post-divorce lifestyle.
That said, until men defeat their oppressors, State-sanctioned gender thievery WILL continue.
Count on it – no matter how much you vote it down.
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Please see
http://robertwhiston.wordpress.com/
Main article at the moment, statistical analysis of a very closely related subject..
AFOR
Very interesting article you posted up on the related topic.
I really like the way Dalrock as put in the work to show the statistics match what we here have been talking about for years.
Gail’s question reminded me of an old joke:
Q: What’s the definition of bigamy?
A: Having one wife too many, which coincidentally is also the definition of monogamy.
One overlooked money grab is the imposition of penalties for failure to pay. A news item from my own country (New Zealand):
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2750519/1-5b-owed-in-child-support
“Almost a third of liable parents are shunning child support obligations, the highest rate in five years.
“At June 30, the child support hole totalled $1.5 billion.
“Inland Revenue is chasing more than $527 million owed by parents, with more than $1 billion owed in penalties. ”
So, the State has decided that fathers owe *the State* twice as much as it has decided that fathers owe the mothers.
Usually, you owe money because you borrowed it. In this case, the State decides who owes whom with a stroke of a pen. Other people have to work for their money.
The story is that the penalty is extracted from the father . But any penalty reduces the amount the father has to spend on his family. There’s only so much to go around – that’s the whole idea of money. Except of course when it’s the State standing up for the good of the children.
The end result is that the State actually feeds itself off the children of the penalised fathers.
OT…
Women. The kinder and gentler sex.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029585/Baby-thrown-storey-car-park-mother-accept-deformity-dies-days-hospital.html
OT….and just when you think women could not get any crazier…
Apparently women are not responsible for their choices….it’s all porns fault.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2029511/Porn-blamed-5-fold-rise-genital-cosmetic-surgery-requests-women.html
OT…..and who was it who said we are going to see more women murdered by men? (And in this case a boy?) That would be me……and I predict we will see sharp increases in murder of women by men…..
I guess “equality” and “empowerment” didn’t work out too well for this woman either.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029312/Abortion-killing-Woman-21-knifed-death-orders-spurned-teenager-West-Lothian.html
OT: Female OG-GYN’s are more likely to provide abortions than their male counterparts:
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/abortion-may-be-legal-but-that-doesnt-mean-its-easy-to-get-one/
@PAN: The article you linked to said that the woman (21) was stabbed to death by another woman (22) who had accompanied the 15-yr old boy to look for the victim after she had aborted his child and gone back to her former boyfriend. So this is another example of woman-on-woman violence, although I believe the boy is being charged as an accomplice.
@Ted: “One overlooked money grab is the imposition of penalties for failure to pay.”
As many of you know, The State of California is simmering in an economic stew of its own making. A few years ago California got smacked down hard in an audit because it claimed uncollected penalties and interest for failure to pay child support as an asset. An outside auditor determined that some large portion (I think it was ~80%) was uncollectable- just wasn’t there. Claiming uncollectable funds as an asset made the state’s balance sheet look better than it actually was. If you or I or most any other private concern did this sort of thing, we’d be looking at some serious charges and jail time.
Oh, the other article PAN linked to about the genital cosmetic surgery- 2000/year, some on girls as young as 11 because they don’t feeeeeel good about how their cooch looks, funded by NHS, while men with breast cancer are told to bugger off and die.
Another point against the ‘gender-neutral’ child support laws is the lack of visitation enforcement. If the guy falls behind in the payments to baby-momma, off to debtor’s prison he goes. If the mother blows off the visitation, sends their kid elsewhere or even simply ignores that requirement altogether, the chances of anything being done are next to zero. The father must gather his pennies, take the mother back to court, prove her flouting of the judge’s decree, and for all that get to hear the judge let the woman off with a warning.
A hilarious piece of hypocricy by Republicans is they want to ban contraception and of course abortion. But remember Nadya Suleman, the crazy bitch with the litter of 8? Where was the GOP outrage over a “miracle” that was more like a Dr Mengele experiment gone bad? Where’s their “god’s will” argument? If a couple is infertile any god is giving them a hint that their DNA is being edited out of the system!
Apparently the Republican agenda with reproduction is to ensure cuckolding and enslavement of men. That’s why they hate contraception and abortion yet love fertility treatment technology. You can be sure that a “Pill for Men” would be banned before the FDA can ever approve it to ensure male disenfranchisement. Couple that with taking away the vote from people who served time, they as much as feminists want to enslave men. And we all wonder why the whole country is getting to be one giant ‘hood.
@Peter
Notice the women saying that its not the woman’s fault that she threw her baby over a ledge. It’s the fault of Postpartum depression.
Only a sick society would tolerate women killing their kids because they are “depressed”. Ugh.
@ Ted in New Zealand – Remember the recent outcry about loan sharks ripping off people? At least with loan sharks people sign up voluntarily, and if they really get in trouble bankruptcy will void the debt.
Child support is of course enforced by the State, and the State piles on penalties on top of late fees which far exceed the most usurious of loan sharks, and furthermore debt to the State cannot be voided by bankruptcy.
I think the only reason the gummint wants to clamp down on loan sharks is because they don’t want any competition!
At best child support is extortion, at worst it is indentured servitude. Black’s Law clearly defines these terms and giving them ‘politically correct’ titles doesn’t change that fact.
I find the entire legal system to be the abhorrently logically inconsistent and it takes a pretty twisted mind to try and present it as being otherwise (one that perhaps thinks the Apollo moon landings were faked comes immediately to mind).
OTish:
The funk I’ve been wallowing for months since re-discovering The Spearhead shows that I’m just not ____ enough to handle this information in a productive way. How do I be happy and/or confident knowing all of this as truth?
‘Not shooting at messengers, mind you, just crying for help, really. Realizing that I was born in a burning building… man… what to do with that?
How do you deal with it? How do you avoid bitterness?
Dear Mister Grumpus August 24, 2011 at 19:30:
I hear what you’re saying. At least we victims have somewhere to go to come into contact with MRAs who tell the truth and want to make the world a better place instead of a Feminist one.
Today, I just had another interview in a women’s government school. The headgirl (aka, Principal) told me she rejected me for the position of Resource Teacher in the K-4 school because she pictured me being with older students.
She and the head Resource Teacher rejected me because of their women’s right to gender-cleanse their criminal female-supremacist government schools. I am ill with depression having been victimized again.
I went online here so I could come into contact with those who were onside as per the whole gender issue (and related matters).
I’ll continue to work on the book and push ahead for the day when I’ll be ready to take on the gender criminals publically and on the record to expose their hate crimes of state and more against the male race.
On to Berlin.
A few follow on questions:
1.
Doesn’t divorce, child support and single motherhood primarily mean boys loosing their fathers in circumstances that girls dont ever loose mothers in ?
2.
If we ask and accept that bastardised blacks behave much worse than bastardised whites, may we also ask why a majority of those institutionally and professionally engaged in and enforcing the bastardisation of children are whites more so than blacks ?
3.
Socialists, conservatives and liberals alike attempting to obscure political self implication, approach the divorce, child support and single parent issue from the standpoint of female rights alone. Isn’t this because our policts, cultures and societies are essentially genderist, and instinctively reflexively puritan in character ?
As a victim of the Child Support Trap who has lost his job and is making about half of his former income I can tell you, its not easy. I had to move to a crappy apartment, give up my daughters room and get a roommate just so I could afford both rent and child support. Fun times. I’m still 800 bucks in the hole, but according to my state law as long as I’m paying something on it, they won’t put me in jail. So I pay what I can when I can. It would be easier for me to just work under the table at BS jobs and move home with my parents, but at 36 I am too proud to do that so I soldier on.
In unrelated news, check out this mega thread on Reddit. Men are questioning why it’s creepy for a man to help a child and many have decided its not worth it. As a black man with a white goddaughter, I’ve been accused of being some sort of pedo when her mother and father aren’t around, so much so that I won’t even take her to the park with out one of her parents there, even if I am with my own daughter. Pedo + race stares = Really Fun Times.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/jt1s0/as_a_male_why_is_it_creepier_if_i_have_any/
If a man who denies a child the child support is called a deadbeat,
Is a woman who denies a child the life called a deathbeaver?
Deathbeater? Dreadbeat?
To the point of child support,
If a woman can deny the child life,
Why cant a man deny the child’s woman his wallet?
Are we to accept that women who give birth are saints to be applauded?
What does that make the woman who does not give birth?
First of all, women do not “give” life any more than they give themselves breath, heartbeats, or farts. Once pregnant the process goes forward autonomically. Cupcake’s “will” or “choice” has nothing to do with life. Her choice is only to inflict death.
So much for the “innate goodness” of vaginates.
A womb without sperm is like an oven without heat. Or beans.
Fifty woman and 10 men in a tribe become another tribe’s slaves. Fifty men and 10 women remain free.
We need to attack the immunity of “visitation viragoes.” Women who deny accesss to fathers must be jailed.
Again, again, again: Why do men put up with this shite?
Why do men sit still and let governments ream them? Men will fight national enemies yet do nothing as their own governments…
…take their kids;
…make them pay way more than they’d pay if the child was in an intact family;
…impute income guys SHOULD be making (does the judge also say the ex-wife’s tits SHOULD be DDD’s?);
…enforce collection of money but not the time men spend with kids (Does the company where Dad works to pay CS also not care how much time he spends on the job)?
…force a man to be an indentured servant for up to 23 year (sometimes to pay for kids not his)?
Unless and until men unite and fight they WILL continue to be individually hung out to dry. Unless guys change laws, the sons of their sons will suffer, too.
Men once faced death to form labor unions. It’s time we form a “men’s union” to fight those who would oppress, abuse, and enslave us!
Having kids looks like fun …
Fuck that shit.
Child support is paid and owed to the *state* because that’s the only way that men can be thrown in jail for “contempt of court” if they refuse to pay.
It’s a deliberate legal ploy to get around the laws against “debtor’s prison”. If it was an ordinary debt, then they couldn’t throw you in jail for failure to pay.
This also allows the state to force you to pay any back debts, plus interest, even if the “child” is over 18. It’s effectively a method of perpetual indentured servitude to the state. It’s even worse than historical “identured servitude”, which at least had the virtue of ending after seven years of ten years.
I know a guy who keeps switching minimum wage jobs to avoid garnishing of his paycheck for back “child support”, even though his son is over 18. He can’t make enough to live on after taxes and child support are extracted. In one case, he was working 30+ hours and takling home $70 per week. once the garnishing kicks in, he quits and moves on to his next job and works for a month or two before the system catches up to him and steals half of his paycheck again.
This is what men are reduced to in Obama’s America: migrant labor in their own frakkin’ country, forever switching jobs to stay one step ahead of the law and debtors’ prison, like human versions of the Flying Dutchman.
@ Auntie Pheminizm
…impute income guys SHOULD be making (does the judge also say the ex-wife’s tits SHOULD be DDD’s?);
———–
Amen! LMAO.
“The core problem is feminist jurisprudence, which predetermines mother custody in over 94% of cases, therefore the ongoing harm to families, fathers and children”. Jeffrey Asher
http://dad4justice.blogspot.com/
Anyone still want to unzip their pants in front of a “lady”?
If so, you’re a fool to yourself, a financial asset to the lady, a tool to the government, and an asshole to your potential children (for risking their entire childhood and lives).
If not, your a loser to women, a stuck-up virgin to men, and a running target that the government hasn’t been able to pin down yet.
Lord Simon August 24, 2011 at 23:07
I haven’t read all of the comments but, I would not be the least sympathetic if a feminist jumped into that discussion and tried to rationalze the “witch hunt” that is still destroying/ruining innocent men’s lives.
Actually, I’d love to see a feminist try.
Ladies and Gentlemen, getting a marriage license today is not true marriage as it was in olden times and too many men and women still think the olden marriage of yore is still fundamentally intact. MARRIAGE today is nothing more than a LICENSED ROMANTIC LOVE AFFAIR, and it is not truly marriage today. Women are truly either married to their jobs or failing that they are married to the government welfare in the truest sense of the word. IMPREGNATING WOMEN is also a bad idea because their true MARRIAGE PARTNER OF LAST RESORTS will extort money from you as a good LITTLE SLAVE to pay for HIS CHILDREN. Why do you need a (Marriage) license to have a romantic love affair? You as a man don’t and you shouldn’t need a license to have a romantic love affair.
So are all y’all ready to start discussing my points on all this yet?
Because there’s not much point in my trying to explain it to you again without some clear indication of that.
Anonymous:
“A hilarious piece of hypocricy by Republicans is they want to ban contraception and of course abortion. But remember Nadya Suleman, the crazy bitch with the litter of 8?… Where’s their “god’s will” argument? If a couple is infertile any god is giving them a hint that their DNA is being edited out of the system!…Apparently the Republican agenda with reproduction is to ensure cuckolding and enslavement of men.”
A few points:
1) The GOP’s opposition to abortion stems from its desire to earn the votes of pro-lifers, who are mostly Christian.
2) Any opposition on the part of the GOP to contraception (and it is usually aimed at removing government funding from the distribution of contraceptives rather than an outright ban) is a bone tossed to conservative Catholic voters (and a small number of evangelicals).
3) The Catholic Church is consistent in its teachings on these matters: contraception, abortion, divorce, and artificial insemination are all mortal sins. The GOP is not consistent because it is really only concerned with appealing to voters. I don’t think that their agenda is specifically motivated by a desire to destroy men. I do think that in a general sense all of our parties and politicians are interested in destroying men and their families because they are all Liberals and statists.
4) The problem is deeper than abortion, contraception, no-fault divorce, unfair child support system, etc. The problem begins with civil marriage itself—or really in the modern period with the Protestant de-sacramentalization of marriage. The state has no legitimate standing in marriage, which is between the two contracting partners and God and His Church. It is a natural, not a civic institution, which has been raised to the level of a sacrament for Catholics.
5) I do not support the GOP precisely because its professed commitment to “family values” remains a sham as long as it continues to acknowledge divorce, etc., as a legitimate civic right. Incidentally, many of the pioneers in the population control movement (contraception + abortion) were Republican politicians.
Auntie Pheminizm August 25, 2011 at 02:46
Fifty woman and 10 men in a tribe become another tribe’s slaves. Fifty men and 10 women remain free.
Laughable MGTOW crockshit. The men will kill each other till the gender ratio is at least balanced.
(Ever hear of the HMS Bounty?)
=======================================
Ubermensch August 25, 2011 at 03:53
Having kids looks like fun …
Fuck that shit.
I hear that!
Dear Poiuyt August 24, 2011 at 23:01:
.
.
“Socialists, conservatives and liberals alike attempting to obscure political self implication, approach the divorce, child support and single parent issue from the standpoint of female rights alone. Isn’t this because our policts, cultures and societies are essentially genderist, and instinctively reflexively puritan in character ?”
.
.
.
In my continuing reading for the book, I’ve read somewhat extensively on the Puritans of England, in England. Their position was affirmatively Patriarchal. Period. As such, the society of which you speak is not, “Puritan” at all: it is its nemesis: Matriarchal/Feminist/Criminal/Satanic/Communist, etc.
We certainly could use a sustained shot of Puritanism, as measured by a whole lot.
The average man is a fool and has a slave’s mentality. He’s getting just what he deserves.
Fifty woman and 10 men in a tribe become another tribe’s slaves. Fifty men and 10 women remain free
What little naive boy wrote this nonsense? When men don’t have to waste time and resources competing for a female they have plenty of energy for other things. Like developing weapons of mass destruction to wipe out their enemies and protect their harem.
I call BS on Dalrock. If he wants to put out bad information on his blog, that is his right. However, now he has it on Spearhead, and it is time for him to stop it.
Note his cute, li’l graph showing number of marriages per 1,000 POPULATION. That is not how one measures the marriage rate. One looks at marriages per 1,000 unmarried women. The Population figure totally distorts the marriage rate, because it does not allow for the drastically increased number of women who are not married as a percentage of the population. In fact, the marriage rate has dropped by more than 50% since 1970, and has dropped considerably in just the last ten years.
His graph shows only a modest reduction in marriages. In fact, the only reason for measuring marriages per 1,000 population, rather than 1,000 unmarried women, except of course mathematically challenged people, is to mislead men who think there is a successful marriage strike in the US. If MRA’s think their plan isn’t working, they may abandon it, even when it is working.
When he first claimed to have proved there is no marriage strike, several of us assumed he had good intentions, and simply didn’t grasp the math involved. So, we took the time to explain it to him on his blog, and to recommend he ask someone knowledgeable in math to explain it to him. After all, for a long time I also kept watching the /1,000 population. But, Lee only had to explain it to me once and I got it.
Dalrock has not asked for further explanations. He just keeps on putting out false and misleading numbers. I can no longer accept it is anything but deliberate and malicious, an attempt to demotivate the MRA marriage strike. In the 80′s, we had men who pretended to help, as he pretends to help, but actually did not stop until they destroyed any men’s organization they joined. We called them Destroyers.
There is a marriage strike, and a significant one. Interestingly, a lot of women are well aware of it, which is why their screams and insults that men “won’t make a commitment.”
Here are the correct marriage rate figures:
Number of Marriages per 1,000
Unmarried Women Age 15 and
Older, by Year, United States:
1922 99 (found on Web)
1960 73.5
1961 72.2
1962 71.2
1963 73.4
1964 74.6
1965 75.0
1966 75.6
1967 76.4
1968 79.1
1969 80.0
1970 76.5
1972 77.9
1975 66.9
1977 63.6
1980 61.4
1983 59.9
1985 56.2
1987 55.7
1990 54.5
1991 54.2
1992 53.3
1993 52.3
1995 50.8
2000 46.5
2004 39.9
2007 39.2 (Rutgers 2009)
2008 37.4 (Rutgers 2009)
2009 36 (UVA 2010; project moved from Rutgers)
UK is 19. NZ is 28.
Dalrock has seen these figures. He well knows they are correct.
Part of his deliberate obfuscation involves a carefully selected statistic. He alleges I think it’s 80% of 40 year old women have been married at least once. But, I believe his first statement was 90%, not 80%. Somehow it got changed.
Forty year old women on average would have married around 1998, when the rate was closer to 50. Now, as you can see, it’s below 36. So, he tried to cover this up by saying, well, women are delaying marriage. But, for that to be true, the average age of marriage would be soaring. In 2009, it was still in the 26 to 28 range, so delay is simply not true. In UK it went up to around 35 or so, but the marriage rate also sank.
Another attempt sometimes used by some people is that after all cohabitation is the same as marriage, and so people are just changing to cohabitation. I realize the lawyers would like to have cohabitation treated just like marriage. But, for so-called MRA’s to join that move is not acceptable.
There is a basic mathematical principle. When you change the rate of anything, the results MUST change. The marriage rate, as I just showed, has changed by around 50%, and the results have changed. When things move slowly, it is easy to fool the gullible.
@Anonymous age 69
The right reason for a man to avoid marriage is because he feels it isn’t the right deal for him. This could be for any number of reasons, including the stacked legal and court system, female entitlement, and the quality of the women he finds available. Any man who would decide to marry an unfit woman because of any statistic I have shared is a fool. The reality is that men in general are still marrying huge numbers of women who don’t deserve the honor. This is why so many women don’t perceive marriage/husbands as scarce. Anyone who has spent a good amount of time reading my blog knows I’m not trying to shoehorn men into marriage. I share the reality as best as I can define it, which includes the best stats I can find. You seem to think this is all a calculated plot on my part, and that for instance I’m sharing how profoundly unfair our system is in an effort to lull men into a false sense of security. It makes no sense.
If you find a misstatement by me, please do me the favor of pointing it out so I can remedy it. I don’t recall making the 80% claim you are referring to, so I am at a loss to explain it unless you point it out specifically. I’ve shared the data in graphical form recently here. The stats you find will look different depending on which year you pull and what demographic you are looking at. The stats I pull myself are generally for white women, because this makes comparisons over time more relevant. Stats for other races or for all races combined can look very different.
We’ve been over this several times, and one thing you have never shared is your view of the actual stats. I’m not talking marriage rates per 1,000 women, but what percentage of women in each age bracket has actually married. You evidently mistrust the US census stats I share, but then you trust the census data the marriage project folks repackage without altering. If the stats I share are wrong, what are the right stats?
69- I don’t waste my time to read everything by some amateur on the net but I did notice that his graph was off too. Whether there is some “marriage strick” as you put it or whether men simply find no reason to marry and a lot of reasons not to marry the fact of the matter is that marriage is way down compared to 40 years ago.
*strike
I guess the truth hurts because you slave mentality types are giving me a thumb’s down. I would never permit some court to dictate to me how I should be supporting my children, that’s a private matter in my book.
Females should never be given cash to do with as they please without having to send a weekly report about how the money is being spent on the kid and I’d want it itemised to see if she’s spending the money wisely . If they don’t like it then they get 0. Visitation? No such thing. I don’t make appointments to see my own kid.
Grow some balls you whiny losers because if every man just refused to accept the jurisdiction of the family court and told them to go to hell they would be powerless to enforce any ruling. You can’t imprison millions of men assuming that you could even find them. And without all of that money coming into their honeypot the welfare agencies would go bust.
What is often missed in the child support discussion is the incentive of the state. It isn’t about gender; it’s about money. Men just tend to make more and are more reliable in continuing to make it over the course of their lives.
The states actually make money from the fed for collection of child support through Title IV-D reimbursement. The standard for visitation (or the dressed up term “parenting time”) for non-custodial parents (fathers) is every other weekend and one evening (not overnight) per week for a grand total of 8 days per month. Child support is calculated on overnights. Less overnights for the non-custodial = higher child support. Higher child support collected = higher Title IV-D reimbursement from the Federal govt.
Read about it here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/59030516/630611-a-Quick-Summary-of-Title-IVD-Funding-and-Incentives
Avenger and Anonymous age 69: you are probably getting the thumbs down more for your unmannerly, intemperate, and accusatory tone than for your message.
Right on Avenger! The powers that be have framed the issue — “it’s about the children” — if you accept that, you have already lost. Ultimately it’s about the culture war rageing against men (especially men with back bone and “balls of steel”) through the courts, popular media and modern liberal inspired norms. Avenger is advocating revolt, and that’s what we need. Total fucking revolt! The FOC may have the law on its side, but legitimacy they do not!
The bottom line here is as it usually is with anything in this country is money. Men have it and women and LAWYERS want it. If you want to put a face to this nightmare of a system that destroys kids and dads look no further than any lawyer you see. They are the problem, they are the cause. Do yourself a favor and all future generations of men,NEVER vote for a lawyer and work tirelessly to get them booted out of any office they hold. They are the main beneficiary’s of this catastrophe and yet have the gaul to act like they are just there to help. Scum, all of them.
excellent article. Great work Dalrock
The problem is not choice. It’s human stupidity. People have a habit of making the same old mistake over and over again. Some people don’t want to acknowledge it, others stuck their heads in their rear ends.
Notice the madness of humanity. Playing god, acting like god, spreading harmful myths toward children young as two. Wasting food, such as turning corn in cat litter. The myth of global warming. and many others.
And I noted that effeminate men and women tend to be more self-righteous toward others. In their sheer hypocrisy and narcissism
Darlock, I know I am late to this article, but thank you for this very good article. One thing you wrote “Even in the case of divorce, child support isn’t needed if parents share equal custody. Where child support is needed is if women want to expel the father from the household (or never bring him in). ”
I am not sure about the US, but in Canada they have figured another way to fleece dad, so that he might not be able to try for 50:50 custody. They do an “income off-set method” for shared custody, so if she makes 20K and he makes 80k, they take what each would pay according the CS tables, subtract the lower from the higher and make the higher earner pay the lower earner the difference, even if they share custody equally. This is another ingenious way to make dad go away, or at least ensure dad doesn’t try for shared custody, in many cases he realizes that paying the off-set (which is often 100% of the table amount when she doesn’t work) and having the kids 50% is not financially possible.
As well, NCP’s here (fathers) are required to pay for college/university while still paying CS to the mother, even if the kids no longer live at home, because she still has to “maintain a home for the kids for visits”. Yet, when he maintained a home for visits for 18+ years as the NCP, he is not compensated at all, but pays and pays, even when he has 50% custody. It’s so far-out there someone should do a comedy skit about it.
I dislike the term “child support” because it is as real a concept as the easter bunny (or, insert ficticious character of your choice).
There is no accountability in the family law system requiring custodial parents with “support” awards to account for the money they receive nor is there any requirement that the money be spent exclusively on the needs of the child.
Morevover, family court “support” calculations are not based on the needs of the child but the non-custodial parents ability to earn.
There is a good chance that if you have or are currently paying “child support” you’re supporting something or someone other than or besides your child.
It is high time for truth in advertising…call it alimony, call it welfare, call it a subsidy, but not child support. We need to stop feeding that myth.
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