The bias against fathers in U.S. custody and child support

by Dalrock on August 22, 2011

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We all know the system is biased against fathers, but the actual data is important when discussing this with those who are skeptical.  It can’t be that bad, can it?  Here is the data I pulled together from Table 1 in the latest US Census Bureau report on the topic, Custodial Mothers and Fathers and Their Child Support: 2007

All of the steps of the process are biased against men except the percentage of support due which is collected (the two are roughly equal).

It starts with who is granted custody:

For those few fathers granted custody, they are less likely than mothers who are granted custody to be awarded support:

For those few fathers who are awarded support, they are awarded less on average than mothers who are awarded support:

The percent collected is the only area where there isn’t a clear bias against fathers.  This looks to be a wash:

However due to the bias in the amount awarded, the average amount received by fathers (per year) is still lower:

When I shared this data on my own blog, several of the commenters were surprised at how low the average yearly support amount was.   Commenter Clarence shed some light on this based on his work experience in the area*:

I used to work as a temp (for almost a year and a half) for a child support agency in a large city. I was data entry, so pretty much every case they did in the office went through me. Now things might have changed since then, but when I left they were just getting the ability to garnish licenses. What I experienced with the data I entered was this : most of the cases were from single mothers where the father was either unemployed, part-time employed or employed at minimum wage. Such men got very low orders, somewhere around 25 dollars per week. About 30 percent of the cases were middle class or above, usually earning at least 15 an hour. These men were getting socked with child support of at least 700 per month and, most commonly, support orders of around 1400 per month.

Yeah, that 70 percent skews the data a lot.

 

As a result of all of these biases against fathers, the percentage of all child support dollars paid is extremely biased.  Roughly 90% of all child support dollars received are received by mothers:

Looking at the figures for 2007, it appears to me that there may be a sampling anomaly.  The percentage of custodial mothers awarded support dropped by 4% between 2005 and 2007.  This is 3% lower than any other year in the series.  I’m not aware of any sweeping changes which occurred in this time frame, and since parents receive child support for between 18 and 21 years it seems highly unlikely that the makeup of the population would change this much in just 2 years.  I’m also not sure why they don’t have data beyond 2007.  Since they publish this every other year they should have data out for at least 2009.  Once they publish the 2009 and 2011 data we will have a better understanding of if the 2007 data shows a trend towards slightly less bias against fathers or if it was in fact a sampling error.

 

*Clarence’s experience makes sense, as Table 2 shows that 47.6% of all custodial parents with support agreements in 2007 were on public assistance.  In these cases the state is generally the recipient of the child support payment, although some states do pass $50 a month or a similar token amount on to the parent.  This also shows up in the numbers, as only 27% of custodial parents who stated they were due support payments in 2007 were on public assistance.  Those parents who didn’t receive anything aren’t included in the average figures reported by the Census, but those who received $50 are.

{ 104 comments… read them below or add one }

Firepower August 22, 2011 at 08:56

A fine report such as this, (replete with concrete, irrefutable evidence in chart form) is normally expected to be enough to get men finally motivated to fight.

If they do not, nor even emerge victorious, then not much can be said for the feebleness of their state.

Nor should any more tears be shed or energies expended on their behalf.

Liberty or slavery
Liberty, or death

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 10
Rebel August 22, 2011 at 10:11

It is clear to me that nothing will change no matter what men do.

It is all engraved in stone now (ref: The Table of the Law—Moses).

For men who have no children, the solution is very simple: just don’t reproduce: misandry disappears mysteriously for childless men.

If you think about it real hard, the laws are stacked against fathers: not against men. My son is free and not subjected to misandry under any form: his friends, those who have children, have it tough.

Many people say that a child needs a father and a mother: I say:bullshit!

A child needs no father, needs no mother: a child needs someone or something to take care of it. (it could even be a sophisticated vaccuum cleaner). Just keep in mind that a child is a future tax-payer: nothing more and nothing less and THAT IS WHY children are government property.
(Each child is valued at $5M income tax revenue: a fair price for cattle.)

And soon, robots will do a better job than any human, male or female at raising future slaves.

Listen to Stefan Molyneux (on statism) and you will see what I mean.

I know I’m gonna get thumbed down (again?) for saying that fathers AND mothers are irrelevant in raising (the government’s) children.

To the government, you and I are cattle. The only way to escape the slaughterhouse is to go your own way and to become invisible.

Disconnect from the matrix that FEEDS on you.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 20
Rus August 22, 2011 at 10:15

What can be done on an individual basis, realistically?

I’m European so things are not as bad here, but we have other problems (immigrants, Islamization) and most people are dead inside. They don’t know what’s happening to the world and most of them don’t wanna know. Better to leave the west entirely while things go down instead of getting myself thrown in jail trying to fix things.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5
Rocco August 22, 2011 at 10:19

So child support is welfare for middle class women, I think we’ve been saying this for quit a while.

And like with TANF, regular welfare, welfare for the middle class can only be obtained by kicking the foolish man who married you out of the house.

This scam was designed by Hitlary Clinton and supported vigorously by team woman, US division and is, IMO, the reason for the explosion of single parent families and the kind of unrest seen in the UK recently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act

IMO, the reason women left TANF is because the “child support” enforcement mechanism is so unconstitutional and severe that it has turned fathers into indentured servants.

IMO, the message for men is clear, don’t marry, don’t have children.

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oddsock August 22, 2011 at 10:33

Firepower

I understand your frustration but any major rebellion by men just ain’t gonna happen.

Rebel

I agree with most of your observations and suggestions but I certainly think misandry is aimed at all men not just fathers. They are just the easy target.

The only way now is to raise awareness when we can and then go ghost.

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Raj August 22, 2011 at 10:46

All this legal injustice is just one symptom of the lack of respect women have for men in modern society, and we men have no one to blame but ourselves. Too much carrot, not enough stick.

Sorry for saying this but we American men take “ass-kissing to get laid” to a new level.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 2
Ryu August 22, 2011 at 11:03

Well, there it is in black and white.

Raising awareness is not enough. I have learned this lesson very well. You could spend the next 100 years detailing all the abuses of the system. I wish the MRM luck and I hope that the state leaves MGTOWs alone.

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Zorro August 22, 2011 at 11:05

I would agree that being married, and furthermore married with children predisposes men toward misandry, principally through legal constructs aimed at controlling the male.

As a 50-year old man, never married and no kids, I can promise you I get a full USDA-certified dose of misandry on a daily basis.

Society suspects unmarried men for being gay, irresponsible, cowardly, unmasculine, lazy, sexually predatory …Jesus Christ, let me know when to stop!

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Bob Smith August 22, 2011 at 11:16

Doing the math, for the guy making $15/hour that $700 or so child support payment is about 1/3 of is *pre-tax* gross. After taxes it’s closer to 1/2 his net. The guideline support amount looks rather punitive to me.

One might reasonably ask what child requires $700/month (let alone $1400/month) to raise. How could intact lower-class families possibly afford children if they’re that expensive? Further, even if we accept those numbers as true, why isn’t dad only paying half of it?

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Firepower August 22, 2011 at 11:29

oddsock

Firepower

I understand your frustration but any major rebellion by men just ain’t gonna happen.

The logical conclusion to that is, if men don’t,

then no change ain’t gonna happen either.

Websites will never move The State – not when the oppressed continue to feed it with money.

No spark, no change.
All that is left is mewling on websites and forums.
Complaining and venting for personal satisfaction and relief.

To all the Public School Educated lurkers – in 20 years, do you foresee things getting better 0r worse?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 8
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 11:47

“Firepower

oddsock

Firepower

I understand your frustration but any major rebellion by men just ain’t gonna happen.

The logical conclusion to that is, if men don’t,

then no change ain’t gonna happen either.

Websites will never move The State – not when the oppressed continue to feed it with money.

No spark, no change.
All that is left is mewling on websites and forums.
Complaining and venting for personal satisfaction and relief.

To all the Public School Educated lurkers – in 20 years, do you foresee things getting better 0r worse?”

Hmm, I don’t think it’s quite as black and white as you paint it ? You see these sites have served much purpose. It has allowed men to talk openly for the first time, probably in history, and also allowed a lot of angry hurt and often bewildered men to vent. Lets not forget from whence we came? These sites have grown at an incredible rate and globally. I suggest that the spark you are looking for is going to be more of a dimming light as men withdraw from society and consequently co operation. Perhaps things have become so bad the only safe option now is to go ghost or become MGTOW ?

There was an interesting report a few years back that said for some reason there appeared to be many thousands perhaps a million or so men that have dropped out or gone missing in the UK. No one could explain the findings?

Perhaps many men are already going their own way even without visiting these sites ?

The change will perhaps come from society as we have known it, collapsing?

Pheonix etc etc.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3
TheOrangeOne August 22, 2011 at 11:50

And this is why you keep it in your pants guys! No one will help you with the consequences of your actions. Stay safe in a world full of wolves.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
TFH August 22, 2011 at 12:08

I would have to agree with Firepower and the others.

This has been known for a while. But where is the activism? There is *some* activism, sure. But I see more activism to ‘Free Tibet’ here in the US than for this injustice.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 1
Uncle Elmer August 22, 2011 at 12:21

For Dalrock’s eyes only :

How to Recognize Your Future Ex-Husband

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-weiner/how-to-recognize-your-fut_b_933090.html

“A man who is too angry too often (and too early in the relationship) may be emotionally unstable….”

“Don’t rationalize that this isn’t a big deal in relation to all of the other wonderful things he does for you. What is most important here is his response to your stated preference. If he doesn’t respect it, he is definitely a future ex-husband.”

“His showering you with baubles or pricey dinners is more about him, and what he needs to do to feel good about him. “

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Firepower August 22, 2011 at 12:30

TFH

I would have to agree with Firepower and the others.

This has been known for a while. But where is the activism? There is *some* activism, sure. But I see more activism to ‘Free Tibet’ here in the US than for this injustice.

Yes.

What is the conclusion
if a true injustice produces NO reaction
from its oppressed
While…
a Vancouver hockey game or
Wisconsin State Fair
strike fear into
The Establishment

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3
TFH August 22, 2011 at 12:44

There was a UK politician, Dominic Raab, who came out strongly against misandry. But I don’t think MRAs issued a call to action for writing letters of support or encouragement to him.

A politician will not take up a cause that does not get him any support.

A protest of even just 100 fathers protesting misandric custody laws would capture some attention. But where is this minimal show of force of 100 men?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
Rocco August 22, 2011 at 12:48

@ Uncle Elmer

How is it that criminals can openly post how to find the next mark in a well known publication like the Huff Po?

What next? How to find investors for your ponzi scheme by Berny Madoff?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
Raj August 22, 2011 at 12:58

Men and women are different in their natures.

Women tend to complain, network and coagulate. They don’t trust their own judgement but rather value others’ majority opinion even if their gut tells them otherwise. This is both good and bad. Good that they put aside their pride and always default to asking for help from others or get together and join protests, social groups etc (Feminism). Bad that they are easily misled and tempted like childern are. If one woman makes a dumb choice, she will encourage all her friends to join in too. This causes them much suffering in their lives.

Men are more like lone wolves. They don’t like complaining, asking for help or protesting (whining). They are more atomized and seek their own customized solutions instead of joining the herd. This is both good and bad too. Good in that men are harder to control. If women are all on a huge ship, men are in individual canoes. They can only be controlled through their women (That’s why the social control system acts on women primarily). They actually find solutions because they default on taking personal responsibility whereas women’s problems are contracted out to men to be solved. Bad in that men are more stubborn in their ways, don’t ask or even offers help. Thus when on a wrong or right path, they continue.

Websites are a game-changer because now we can network and share ideas but we must not give up our greatest strength: Not thinking in a box, compromising and joining the herd. This is our soul.

Protest don’t work. Look at feminism: Women are more miserable than ever, on drugs to keep sane, frusterated, empty inside. Because they went to someone else to give them solutions, they just got used. They only thing protests bring is an illusion of change. Stuff is just moved around by the elites to make it appear all better.

Change is easy, stop participating. There are no shortcuts.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 1
Firepower August 22, 2011 at 13:03

Raj

Men and women are different in their natures.

That’s no longer true. Males have been propagandized and brainwashed by education, media and single-mommy households.

Women tend to complain, network and coagulate.

Now, you see males do this as much – thanks to the internet.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 16
AfOR August 22, 2011 at 13:24

Fact is, despite what Firepower says, the most effective tactic is starve the beast.

no taxes, no consumerism, no actions that support the state… just stay alive, watch, and keep your powder dry for when the wheels fall off.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 13:28

Firepower.
Men are not going to revolt in any significant number. The book has been out nearly a year. I think about 5 or 6 men have bothered to free themselves so far.

Robert Kennedy talks of “barbers cats” and “marshmallow men”.

And that is exactly what they are. I deliberately caused a “crime” the other day at customs in Germany and spent three hours talking to the women and men in customs pointing out their legislation does not apply to me. How many other men would do that here? None.

Indeed? I video recorded my court meeting on November 26th 2009, not long after spearhead started. How many other men IN THE ENTIRE WORLD have done this lawfully to this date in the FC? That would be zero.

Don’t try telling me that fathers are anything but gutless whimps now. The evidence is stacked too high.

Thomas Ball proved that even self immolation will not work.

I have ELEVEN hate sites set up and run by the Australian guvment.

Who is doing the most for men? Thomas Ball or me?

If a few other men had any balls and replicated what I have shown them to do then they would be living free in this femnazi world too.

There is no “saving” or “helping” other men. They don’t want to be helped. They just want to talk shit. Men come to CAF and read the book and then start telling me why I am wrong. When I ask them where they get what they believe to be true from they invariably cite two sources.

1. Lawyers.
2. Written legislation by guvment.

It is completely lost on these stupid men that the lawyers are guvment agents meant to lie to you and steal from you so as to impoverish you to make you easier to control since you will be close to poverty stricken having been through the FC.

As I keep saying.

“The stupidity and ignorance of most men is only exceeded by their arrogance.”

I see more of this every day. The evidence is stacked to the moon and back. I had thought that when I showed the video of a man committing the crime of impersonating a magistrate that fathers would be OUTRAGED that such a blatant criminal act took place and thereby showed that ALL MAGISTRATES AND JUDGES were IN ON THE CRIME.

Nope. What is Welmer doing? He’s paying a criminal called a lawyer to re-present him to a criminal called a family court judge and seemingly hoping that these criminals will not rob him blind. Hhhmmmmm? I wish him luck with that approach but I we have a superb short essay here of just how mens tolerance of criminals have worked out for them.

Men will tolerate crimes against themselves as well as other men. So they deserve these crimes be committed against them.

If every man who decided to off himself offed the ex and the judge and the lawyer before he did so? This shit would end in a month.

Our friend in Norway has shown us how to tell people “I do not like feminism. Stop it.”

Gents? It is new courts or mass murder. Which will depend almost entirely on fathers.

So far they are voting for mass murder.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 13:35

PAN, I could be wrong here but I suspect you don’t get many christmas or birthday cards?

I should talk! The only christmas card I got last year was from Dialapizza!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
keyster August 22, 2011 at 13:37

A friends daughter is a teacher of a special class for incorrigible, disruptive and violent kids, that got thrown out of regular high school. Her job is to transition them back into regular school from detention centers or where ever they were sent off to as punishment.

I asked her how many of the kids come from single parent households, she replied matter of factly “Almost all of them.”. She once brought them to my business as a field trip/day out and they were a very ill-mannered, unruly group of teenagers. They’ve obviously never known discipline of any kind.

Interestingly, she said she has three girls in the class at once this year for the first time ever. Typically its about a dozen boys and maybe one girl.
My tax dollars at work!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
AfOR August 22, 2011 at 13:42

OT

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028908/Daughter-race-horse-trainer-centre-custody-battle-coached-claim-father-sexually-abused-her.html

A top racehorse trainer ‘coached’ her young daughter to say her father had sexually abused her, the High Court heard today.

Twisted Victoria Haigh manufactured sex abuse allegations about ex-partner David Tune then encouraged her daughter, now seven, to repeat them.

Ms Haigh, who was locked in a custody battle with Mr Tune, hired a private investigator and together they spread the malicious accusations via e-mail and over the internet.

But Sir Nicholas Wall, President of the Family Division of the High Court, said the claims were untrue and Ms Haigh’s actions had been ‘wholly contrary’ to her daughter’s interests.

He said he had decided to sit in open court so that the public could be told that Mr Tune was ‘not a paedophile’ and made an order that Ms Haigh could not make any application in relation to her daughter without his permission for two years.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 13:46

Zorro August 22, 2011 at 11:05

In Germany I see ZERO misandry directed towards me. When a woman asks me why I will not remarry I say:

“Well, in my divorce my wife was awarded 95% and I was awarded 5%. All the other women and most men in the west tell me this is perfectly ok with them despite the fact it is an obvious crime.

Since a man can be the victim of a clear crime and be hated on for demanding justice? It is so much easier to refuse to marry than to put up with all that again. After all? Its not like a woman has anything to offer to me as a wife any more, is it?”

After the usual….that can not be true….every woman I talk to accepts that since this is the case it is perfectly sensible for me to refuse to marry.

Of course. When I am in the anglo-sphere women I don’t even know will hate on me for not wanting to marry one of their fat arses.

In Germany? I simply do not experience misandry like I do in the anglo-sphere. And I can attest to the fact that this, just in itself, makes life more pleasant.

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Rebel August 22, 2011 at 13:56

“I should talk! The only christmas card I got last year was from Dialapizza!”

You dumped Izzy?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 14:14

Rebel

“I should talk! The only christmas card I got last year was from Dialapizza!”

You dumped Izzy?

Which one ? The inflatable or the live one?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Rebel August 22, 2011 at 14:41

Feck the inflatable one, but I was glueless about the live one…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Rocco August 22, 2011 at 14:59

@ Peter

Any idea what the level of misandry is like in the Czech republic and Hungary? I’m seeking to scout out future possible home bases in the near future through vacations.

Germany is on my list, thanks to you.

The only place I really truley felt no hatred for being a male is in Thailand. I was a commodity but not a hated one.

In Brazil and the Phillapines, I still felt the reach of western misandry.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 15:03

Rebel

“Feck the inflatable one, but I was glueless about the live one…”

Angry Izzy is still going strong, the live one is just playing hard to get but she will be me bitch sooner or later, just wait and see.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 15:09

Rebel

Anyway, how are your goats ?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 15:11

Rebel

Sorry mate, I still find that a bit too kinky. I mean, sheep are fine but goats ? Maybe you need therapy ?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 15:11

oddsock August 22, 2011 at 13:35
“PAN, I could be wrong here but I suspect you don’t get many christmas or birthday cards?”

Not any more I don’t!! LOL!!

Seems a man only gets christmas cards when he is willing to be a man-slave.

One of the more surprising aspects of my divorce was how so many married men saw me as “persona non grata” just because a criminal woman and I were getting divorced.

Trust me. I have all the friends I want.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
Maaldweb August 22, 2011 at 15:19

Gentlemen

We can only fight a guerrilla warfare against the feminist-socialist hydra

so our goal should be the following:

1. Make as many men as you can to shallow the Red Pill.
2. Ignore western females and explain them why you do that. Don’t think they are smart enough to understand the reasons.
3.If possible move to a non-western country. Eastern Europe, Latin America, East Asia are still valuable solutions.
Personally I am still undecided between Latin America and Eastern Europe.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
oddsock August 22, 2011 at 15:21

PAN

Not sure about recommending Germany as a place free of misandry? Perhaps you may think this a little odd but from what I know of Germany it is just as infected by feminism as all other european countries. Having said that, it is also probably the only country that is financially sound, perhaps too sound. Scary the thought of a reunited Germany and a major financial power house.

Either way, whatever you do don’t mention the war . Oooh oooh and dont forget, technically, they are part of the anglosphere.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Rebel August 22, 2011 at 15:32

oddsock August 22, 2011 at 15:11
Rebel

Sorry mate, I still find that a bit too kinky. I mean, sheep are fine but goats ? Maybe you need therapy ?

But I had therapy!!

That’s when I dropped cows. (messy droppings they had)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 15:44

Rocco August 22, 2011 at 14:59
“@ Peter Any idea what the level of misandry is like in the Czech republic and Hungary?”

I have never been to either country so I can’t comment. I have met women from these countries and they have been really nice. My longer term czech lady friend (fav#4) had the loveliest personality and disposition of any woman that I have ever met. She was clear she wanted to get married and we were just friends. But I have to admit, I really liked her and when she moved on I was quite sad.

True story. Who would not want a woman like this?

We were staying at a hotel near the main station in Frankfurt. One she recommended to me which turned out to be well sub-par for my liking. At dinner time I said to her to take me to one of her favourite places to eat. When we walked out of the hotel it was pouring rain. There was a cab right there in front of us and we had no umbrellas…she took up off the street. So I asked where the hell she thought she was going. She was going to catch the street car. I told her not to be so stupid and we would take a cab. She stood there in the rain arguing about how the street car was cheaper. So I scolded her and told her to get in the cab.

She gave the cab driver instructions. I had no idea where we were going.

The punch line? The cab fare was EUR10. It was about 2kms to where she wanted to go. This, to her, was an extravagance.

The restaurant was very modest as well.

I told her afterwards that her choice of hotel and restaurant was simply not acceptable to me and that I would select next time.

The next time was May Day last year. I booked us into the Villa Kennedy. This is said to be the best hotel in Frankfurt. I can personally attest that they have a VERY good argument. I have stayed in hotels with (ever so slightly) better appointments, not many, but never have I had staff so friendly and helpful. Not even in Asia. If anyone wants a great experience. Go here. (http://www.villakennedy.com/)

So anyway. I arrived early from the airport. fav#4 was going to come over after her language school she did on saturday mornings. I was having lunch in the 5 star italian restaurant and it was taking a little longer than expected to be served so I texted her and said if she arrived at the reception prior to me telling her I was back in our room then please come to the restaurant.

Her response was an hysterical “I am not going to drag my case all over a hotel just to find you. Tell me when you are back in our room and I will catch a cab over.”

So I finished a rather fine tortelini and washed it down with a glass of red and went to our room. I texted her. And duely, about 15 minutes later she arrived at the door. (I had dropped by the front desk and tipped the girl there to make sure that she handled fav#4 with kid gloves and took good care of her! LOL!!)

She of course started with “They took my case off me and would not let me bring it to my room!!” At the VK you are not allowed to walk to your room by yourself the first time. They tour you through the hotel and show you how to use your key in various places etc. It’s a very nice intro.

I couldn’t help but laugh as I told her that in a hotel like this a woman will not be allowed to carry cases around. That will be done for her. When the case arrived I gave the porter EUR5. She saw this and asked how much I gave him. I told her EUR5. She was INDIGNANT saying “I could have brought it up myself and saved the EUR5!!!”

So I asked her if she had ever stayed in a place like this…she very sheepishly admitted that no, not ever. So I told her that places like this were really quite tedious and boring for me as I used to live in them for months on end. But I wanted to give her a gift.

We stayed three days. We went back there quite a few times. It was lovely. Once she got a taste for the calf schnitzel she would order it every time we went there. Apparently she had never eaten in a 5 start italian restaurant either.

Eventually she finally asked me one day. “Why do you bring me here? I am happy in the place we first stayed in. Why spend all this extra money?”

My answer was: “One day you will have a husband and children. And you will look at places like this. When you do? I want you to think to yourself.. “When I was younger I was lucky enough to stay in a hotel like that a few times. Now I have more important things to do like take care of my husband and raise my children”.” She gave me one of her very special looks and gave me a kiss and a hug in appreciation of being given a gift with nothing in expectation of return.

I presume there are more like her where she came from. I really like eastern european women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Rocco August 22, 2011 at 16:09

Nice Peter, great story and very nice sentiment. I am getting involved in music and they say Budpest is the place to record and orchestra cheaply. I think I will go on vacation to Budapest next and see what it’s like there.

When I do I will let you guys know what I find.

It sure does suck being able to go where you like and do what you want when your there…lol.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 16:13

oddsock August 22, 2011 at 15:21
“PAN Not sure about recommending Germany as a place free of misandry? Perhaps you may think this a little odd but from what I know of Germany it is just as infected by feminism as all other european countries.”

Germany is “post feminist”. At dinner yesterday my latest lady friend asked me why I thought it was that German Legislation is so much fairer than what I talk about in the west. I pointed out to her that in germany 25% of the women over 40 have never had a child. That the birth rate is 1.38. That men are refusing to marry in droves. I pointed out that the Illuminati want population reduction and the Germans are already doing that quiet voluntary. (She does not want babies herself.) So the times of creating conflict between men and women are over. Women who have children over 3 years of age are sent back to work. There is not so much of a “pussy pass” for sentencing either. Women here are astonished at what I say women get away with in the west. Indeed, with respect to the MEN who have stayed silent this lady said……as best I remember. “Was ist den loss mit diese dum-kopf manner. Wissen sie nicht ob a frauen erlaubt zu machen krim bist, das die frauen machen mehr krim?”

Meaning “What is wrong with these dumb-head men? Do they not know that if you allow a woman to commit a crime then she will commit more crimes?”

You see posters up about “strong women stong land”. Pure propaganda. But the men are “over feminism”. They don’t give it much mind. As one said to me “Women want to be equal to men? For two generations we were slaughtered in wars. They are welcome to it.”

My fav#4 was dating a guy her own age and was trying to establish that she was “trustworthy”. He responded. “I know all about how trustworthy women are. When german men had died fighting or were imprisoned by the allies our “trustworthy women” would fuck an allied soldier for a pair of stockings.”

Fav#4 was shocked that the actions of women 65 years ago would be taken to apply to her honesty today. I pointed out to her that women were dishonest, liars and hypocrites in the west and other women do not denounce them. I pointed out that all around the world, women almost NEVER denounce women criminals or liars and never demand they make remedy for crimes. I pointed out that because this is the case, and seems always to have been the case, she will not be believed by most men as it was safer to assume she was “like that”. I pointed out to her that the silence of women in the face of crimes or “fucking for a pair of stockings” would never, ever go away and that it would have been better for women to be honest. It was just that they seemed that they did not want to be honest.

So yes. Germany was as “infected” as all other countries. But German men have evolved and responded much more quickly. And they are doing it by making sure they don’t work too hard and make sure the women work much more than they do in the west. This is why it is very normal for a woman to have to work to 35+ before the husband will have babies. No man wants a woman in the 40s with two small children. This strategy is VERY common.

By the way? I am told German men kill their wives and kids in divorce MUCH more often than in the west. The other thing happening over here is that men are getting vasectomies in massive numbers. So much so they even tried to introduce legislation that men needed permission from “Family Planning” (meaning exclusively women) to get a vasectomy.

All I can comment on is my personal experience and what I am told by my german speaking colleagues. If Germans are here? They can comment too. I am a foreigner here who does not speak the language so I have a limited experience. Also, because I am “exotic” in Germany I am sure I am treated differently than your average german cab driver.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 16:20

Rocco August 22, 2011 at 16:09

Another member here who remains nameless PMed me about a trip to Berlin. He said he had never seen women treat men so well in his life. And he meant just women he observed in the street. I can confirm this is the case. Women here treat men MUCH better than in the english speaking world.

Going from the UK to Germany is very much like going to a different world. Remember. A LOT of the women I am talking about are not german. There are large populations of eastern european women here.

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PDid August 22, 2011 at 16:20

Welmer, do love the spearhead… long time reader on the so-called “Manosphere” since 2005… been reading here and your blog since the inception. I’m just a married guy with kids just trying to watch out to what “could happen”. But honestly I’ve had to consciously stop reading stories on the spearhead for months… why? it’s fucking depressing. I live abroad now and I’m doing fine – I know back home there is a recession. I’ll be back eventually… but if you want to be cutting edge… you got to LEAD that shit. Start posting positive articles… What is right in the U.S.A.? I really don’t know except for hearing Rush Limbaugh, Google News headlines, and Manosphere blogs. Kim Kardashian Wedding? don’t think so…. you guys know the Good over there. Post it! I know you and others are going thru hell… I’ve averted it so far by my own Will. But men need to see the Light sometimes. What is good back home? I dread of seeing some positive headlines next time I reload the spearhead. Thanks for listening, P

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oddsock August 22, 2011 at 16:27

PAN

Sounds good, any sheep ?

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 16:28

A woman coaching her daughter to allege sexual abuse against her father as a lie? … No…no woman would ever do that….right?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028908/Daughter-race-horse-trainer-centre-custody-battle-coached-claim-father-sexually-abused-her.html

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 22, 2011 at 16:45

OT…men do not have a basic right to be the fathers they chose to be….but women will protest about a “basic civil right” to go topless.

Gee. And women wonder why I have no respect for them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028843/Go-Topless-Day-2011-protesters-tops-justice-Venice-Beach.html

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W.F. Price August 22, 2011 at 16:59

Welmer, do love the spearhead… long time reader on the so-called “Manosphere” since 2005… been reading here and your blog since the inception. I’m just a married guy with kids just trying to watch out to what “could happen”. But honestly I’ve had to consciously stop reading stories on the spearhead for months… why? it’s fucking depressing. I live abroad now and I’m doing fine – I know back home there is a recession. I’ll be back eventually… but if you want to be cutting edge… you got to LEAD that shit. Start posting positive articles… What is right in the U.S.A.? I really don’t know except for hearing Rush Limbaugh, Google News headlines, and Manosphere blogs. Kim Kardashian Wedding? don’t think so…. you guys know the Good over there. Post it! I know you and others are going thru hell… I’ve averted it so far by my own Will. But men need to see the Light sometimes. What is good back home? I dread of seeing some positive headlines next time I reload the spearhead. Thanks for listening, P

-PDid

Hey PDid, I’d love to get back in the swing of things, and hopefully I will soon. Unfortunately, I’ve been dealing with fallout from divorce since my ex decided to go on a jaunt to another country with my kids, and one of my jobs is to look out for the little ones despite the enormous obstacles to responsible fatherhood thrown up by feminist policy.

I’m going to work this personal issue out one way or another without compromising my values, and I think we men will be able to do so collectively as well in due course.

Ultimately, I am positive about the future, and I hope to offer you some thoughtful content that reflects that. Thanks for the feedback.

-Welmer

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King Alfred August 22, 2011 at 18:42

A question to all:

My brother is currently beginning the legal battle of divorce. With 6 kids and completely crazy wife, he needs all the help he can get. Can anyone suggest some good websites with strategies for surviving or maybe even winning in divorce court? He is a surgeon so he can afford the best legal representation, and he has a lot to lose, including his kids, if the loony woman gets her way. She is fighting a total war against him, while he is still trying to be a “gentleman.” I think his gloves need to come off.

Suggestions anyone?

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HurleyHacker August 22, 2011 at 19:04

PDid,

Man this is the good news. Trying to avoid the trap that is marriage and Feminism . If you can find some good news out there please share it. I for one could of used a slap in the face with the horrors of divorce and the Man-hating industry that I was about to become a part of. No news is good news. Bad news is bad news. Muddle on.
Sorry . that is the law.

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HurleyHacker August 22, 2011 at 19:15

King Al,

Make sure he gets a passport and starts thinking about overseas. Forget about the sharp lawyer. Will only operate on his wallet. Spend the money on Private investigators and recording her every “loony” move. He has a snowballs chance in hell to succeed but with some foresight he can do it and not fall into slavery.
Wake his ass up. Some of the smartest people are very stupid. Start reading up for him and start planning his defense. Yes he needs to defend his constitutional rights and a slave to be. Pray.

Good luck

The HurleyHacker

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HurleyHacker August 22, 2011 at 19:15

King Al,

Make sure he gets a passport and starts thinking about overseas. Forget about the sharp lawyer. Will only operate on his wallet. Spend the money on Private investigators and recording her every “loony” move. He has a snowballs chance in hell to succeed but with some foresight he can do it and not fall into slavery.
Wake his ass up. Some of the smartest people are very stupid. Start reading up for him and start planning his defense. Yes he needs to defend his constitutional rights and a slave to be. Pray.

Good luck

The HurleyHacker

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AntZ August 22, 2011 at 19:38

THIS IS MISANDRY, painted in bright colors. Pure man-hate, the halmarke of the modern age of sexism and feminist inspired bigotry.

THIS IS FEMINIST HATE.

THIS IS THE FEMINIST WAR ON MEN AND BOYS.

The feminist, man-hating civil courts spreading their bigotry accross the nation, destroying lives, and dusting America’s families with their poison.

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gender foreigner August 22, 2011 at 20:49

Dear Dalrock on August 22, 2011:

Great, great job: my hat is off to you, Sir.

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keyster August 22, 2011 at 21:12

“Can anyone suggest some good websites with strategies for surviving or maybe even winning in divorce court?”

It so depends on the state, assuming he’s in the states.
It’s best he get a lawyer that specializes in family law immediately.
Every circumstance or case is unique, because it tends to be a very emotionally volatile situation. This can’t be solved by perusing websites, unless its persuing marital and family law in that state.

What happens with the majority of men is that they get very depressed, apathetic and compacent…and that’s when she and her lawyer go in for the kill, so it’s your job to help him keep his guard up and stay very focused.

She’s no doubt already well ahead of him in manuevering for advantage; has a lawyer, has a strategy. He’s probably done nothing, as he’s in shock. Wake him up, smack him around if you have to. There’s a war to be waged.

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fondueguy August 22, 2011 at 21:17

” Ultimately, I am positive about the future, and I hope to offer you some thoughtful content that reflects that. Thanks for the feedback.”

Trite as this may sound I have great respect for a person with that attitude. It also says to me that your politics comes from solid values.

Hope you get throught this well.

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TFH August 22, 2011 at 21:37

With 6 kids and completely crazy wife, he needs all the help he can get.

SIX kids, before he found out she was crazy?

On the plus side, he will only pay the same child support that he would pay if he had 3 kids. So the 4th, 5th, and 6th kids are effectively free.

I say he should document her looniness, but then let her have custody of all 6 kids. She won’t be able to handle it on her own, and she wont have spare money to blow on herself. After a bit, the oldest kids will want to come live with dad.

I think having a large number of kids will work in his favor.

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Rocco August 22, 2011 at 22:52

I don’t know much about multiple children but, from the couples I know, many have the children split up. I would have been horrified of this until I became a parent.

Children are a different stages and may need mom or dad more. Some children don’t get along with each other.

Mainly what I’m thinking is that sharing the load in caring for six would be best for the kids. 6 is alot, it’s easy to think you can do it alone, but be realistic.

So, with a good attorney, alot of money and alot of patience he should do ok. If he’s not in it to win it and in it for the long haul, he should reconsider a big fight.

IMO.

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Robert August 23, 2011 at 02:19

OT; Sign the petition to repeal VAWA.

http://repealvawa.blogspot.com/

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universe August 23, 2011 at 02:27

In addition to Dalrock’s reportings on custodial awards and payments received here, briefly, is some on topic supplementary data.
Source: University of Wisconsin-Madison, The Institute for Research on Poverty, Discusscion Paper #982-92
“Custodial Fathers. Myths, Realities and Child Support Policies”. 1992
(to skip the verbatim scroll down to the – summary)
“p.27 Child Support Information
[Table 6 shows information on] the dollar amounts of child support due and received by custodial fathers and custodial mothers who are owed support. Because information on amounts due to custodial fathers are not available in the national samples, we focus on the results from Wisconsin. The first two columns show that custodial fathers are much less likely to have a child support award, with only 30 percent of the fathers who get custody through the court in Wisconsin obtaining a support award, compared to over 80 percent of custodial mothers. The awards are often smaller, a figure consistent with the lower earnings of non-custodial mothers and consistent with fathers having custody of fewer children. Among parents who are due child spport, fathers are less likely to receive a payment with 49 percent of fathers and 27 percent of mothers receiving nothing. However, of the fathers who received something (n=59), half received the full amount due or more, a figure very similar to that for mothers”.
p.30
“In Wisconsin, fewer than 20 percent of of the mothers paid child support , compared to 60 percent of the fathers, and the amounts paid by mothers were substantially lower.”
In summary, very few custodial fathers receive child support. The Wisconsin data suggest, however, that this is primarily because of a lack of awards, as about 70 percent of these fathers do not have awards. Even when there is an award, about half of non-custodial mothers pay nothing, although about one-fourth pay the full amount due”.
– summary
Even when fewer non-custodial women than men are ordered to pay lower amounts of child support, fewer women than men actually do.
Considering the research came by way of an Institute on Poverty and from Madison (rumoured to be left leaning) there may be a tacit implication that poverty effects females more and thusly accounts for an inability to pay court ordered c/s payments. Nevertheless, the numbers were made evident
(and known for almost 20 years).

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Philip August 23, 2011 at 02:56

I once saw an interview with a feminist about granting equal child custody to men, and she said “why bother with all the hassle when so few men want it”.
So why bother letting women into the forces or in the board room or in politics or or or or or or or. Fuck, feminists are such hypocrites.

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universe August 23, 2011 at 03:04

Now, still on topic in the vein of child maintenance payments. One that may reduce the sole burden on fathers to provide for their state enforced estranged children.
A framework prepared for the U.S Department of Health and Social Services as written by Donald Beiniewicz. The article, “A Fair Share Formula for Child Support” was written for Child Support Guidelines: the Next Generation. At time, the author was employed by the U.S. Department of the Interior.
Five steps:
“1 Determine the gross income and net income of each parent.
2 Determine the cost of providing for the child(ren). (parenthesis mine)
3 Determine what fractional share of the cost of the child(ren) each parent will pay, in proportion to their net income.
4 Determine the fractional share of the cost that the non-custodial parent is paying directly.
5 Determine the child support payment.”

– A lot of ‘what-ifs’ and ‘ya-buts’ counters may ensue from both sides of the ‘gender’ spectrum. Ya, but “equitable’ is the word still buzzing about through the minds and chambered hallways frequented by lobbyists, bureaucrats and legislators. The framework, though dated, that many here likey already know about, is a directional start to something different or better.
The General Accounting Office in their 1992 report entitled, “Mothers receiving less support from out-of-state fathers” (GAO/HRD-39FS) stated that in both interstate and intra-state cases, 66% of the custodial mothers with child support access reported that the reason for not receiving payment was “father was unable to pay”.

More mere words or hot air bandied about on the intrawebs? Perhaps, in many cases, so. But the more relevant information, disjointed as it may appear at times, that is funneled through, is still one more piece of info that may spur just one person to absorb and ripple effect to something else better related.
The ‘women’s’ lobby, even though greater public sympathy was on their side, did take time. Now, still, and for years previous, women’s issues have been and are concentrated from within that supra-governmental agency, the U.N., whose influence badgers election hungry politicians the world over. To wit, one example of such that guides the one sex social development of, that insignificant nation, Canada, has been the 1977 “CONVENTION on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against WOMEN”. 34 years ago!, adopted and running counter to too many things common sense. That’s a lot of power initiated by unseen and unkown bureaucrats whose policies direct elected representative of adoptive nations to comply with. (My foil hat came off for giving me a headache. But, no, something bigger is not happening here. Move on).
As was written about in this thread by Oddsock or referred to by others in different posts and threads here, internet men’s forums may be the first time in civilised history where, en masse’, the common man share and compare their written thoughts about the state of their present lives and involving the state. Otherwise men’s issues would take so much longer to rebound in a world of seeming instantaneousness. The central point locus here started as one man’s personal log. That is still the case but the resulting expanse connects many thoughts and ideas to others. In the short life of this blog that’s nothing to sneeze at.
Sure, “game” sites provide some valued insights and may gather more attention to sport-sex than to rectifying socio-political problems. To each their own but during all that fiddling around the infrastructure burns. This may have to occur but if it does, the common rube will at least know, through some info provided here, what to look for and what not to re-build with.

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universe August 23, 2011 at 03:51

Philip

I once saw an interview with a feminist about granting equal child custody to men, and she said “why bother with all the hassle when so few men want it”.

– That seems about consistent alike with non-feminists.
From the 1980 book, “Surviving the Breakup”, by J.Wallerstein and J.Kelly,
estimate that 20% of the custodial mothers “saw no value (in the father’s continued contact with the children) and actively tried to sabotage the meeting”. Furthermore, the authors found that nearly half of the custodial mothers favoured discontinuing the father’s visitation.

There’s more.
– In, “Solomon’s Children” (1986), author Glynnis Walker reported that 42% of custodial mothers had tried to prevent their children from seeing the father.

More yet.
– This time from an accredited source.
A 1988 article from Law and Policy Vol.10, N. 4, reported in, “The Denial of of Visitation Rights”, found that 9 months following court ordered custody and visitation arrangements 22% of the men surveyed indicated that their ex-spouses did not comply with the access of visitation.

Want more?
– A 1987 U.S. Health and Human Services report, “Young Unwed Father: Research Review Policy Dilemmas and Options”, found that intervention from the government and from the mothers, contributed a deterrance to young fathers from seeking personal contact with their children when support is paid.
– The report, “The Changing Face of Child Support Enforcement: Incentives to Work With Young Parents”, from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Child Support Enforcement, Dec. 1990 found that young fathers were able and willing to support their children.
– And, finally, for the time being.
David D. Gilmore, author of “Manhood in the Making: Cultural Concepts of Masculinity”, Yale University Press 1990, cited a Los Angeles Times survey that found that 39% of fathers would quit their jobs to stay at home with their children if they had that option.

Bias public sound byte manipulators just doing an honest day’s work.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 04:31

King Alfred August 22, 2011 at 18:42

My views on this are well known. Refuse to pay alimony or child support (lawfully) and ensure that those who might try to steal from you know that you will take them to a common law court and ask for a remedy. If not forthcoming then you reserve the right to use force, up to and including deadly force, against anyone who would injure your interests.

Men have a right to self defence just like any other animal on this planet. If they waive that right? That is their problem. How many times have I linked the book in this place?

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/1/threadid/538/scope/posts/Default.aspx

Robert August 23, 2011 at 02:19
“OT; Sign the petition to repeal VAWA.”

Robert. Why is it that men like you are so stupid as to believe there is any point in signing petitions? I’d really like to know. It is a genuine question. All over the web I see stupid men asking other stupid men to sign petitions. The stupidity beggars belief but there are tens of thousands of men signing petitions out there.

Here. Let me explain it to you again in small words that maybe you can understand.

YOUR GUVMENT MEMBERS ARE CRIMINALS.

Now. Is there any part of that you do not comprehend?

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Druk August 23, 2011 at 06:20

Really Rebel? Referencing the cult leader Molyneux? There are far better Anarchists to be taking notes from.

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AntZ August 23, 2011 at 06:38

@King Alfred

“Can anyone suggest some good websites with strategies for surviving or maybe even winning in divorce court?”

The most important FACT that your brother must know NOW is:

THE MORE HE FIGHTS THE BETTER THE ODDS OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS CHILDREN:

Here are the numbers:
http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats18.htm

NO MAN can hope for even odds of retaining a relationship with his children after divorce. The sad fact of our man-hating feminist civil courts is men have no rights.

HOWEVER, this does not mean you should not fight:

IF YOU FIGHT, your wife is FOUR times as likely as you to have full physical custody.

IF YOU MEDIATE, your wife is TEN times as likely as you have full physical custody.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, the deck is stacked against you — but the more you fight, the better the odds become.

I also believe that if you fight, appeal, fight again, appeal again, burn EVERY PENNY THAT YOU HAVE to keep a relationship with your children, THEY WILL BE BETTER OFF. In the end, even if you lose, they will know: DADDY FOUGHT FOR US.

If you just give up because “the courts are man-hating” or “the laws are sexist” or “the battle is un-winnable”, you will lose more and bigger.

Say goodbye to everything you own, all your savings, get a second mortgage on your house, and cash in your retirement. BURN EVERY PENNY ON YOUR CHILDREN. It is your duty, your obligation, your right to remain in their lives. DO NOT let the man-hating, feminist, bigoted, sexist family courts take them away from you. Money means NOTHING. Fight, fight, fight. Fight to the last. Your children will know that THEIR FATHER LOVED THEM ENOUGH TO FIGHT AGAINST THE LAWS, THE COURTS, AND THE ODDS.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 06:43

OT but hysterical…

Seems the wimminz are more affected by commuting than men. How about that?

And check out thee comments! English men are getting stuck into the wimminz.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2029073/Commuting-work-stressful-women-affect-mental-health.html

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Dalrock August 23, 2011 at 07:03

@universe

In addition to Dalrock’s reportings on custodial awards and payments received here, briefly, is some on topic supplementary data.
Source: University of Wisconsin-Madison, The Institute for Research on Poverty, Discusscion Paper #982-92
“Custodial Fathers. Myths, Realities and Child Support Policies”. 1992

Good find. I’m not able to find a link to that paper on the web though. So many of these are only available through subscriptions.

Among parents who are due child spport, fathers are less likely to receive a payment with 49 percent of fathers and 27 percent of mothers receiving nothing.

This is the one area which seems to have gotten better for men in the last 20 years. It is small consolation though. The Census found the same pattern in its statistical brief on child support in 1991:

Of the 4.9 million women due payments, 76 percent received at least a portion of the amount they were owed. The corresponding rate for the 400,000 men owed money was 63 percent.

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 07:15

AntZ August 23, 2011 at 06:38
“THE MORE HE FIGHTS THE BETTER THE ODDS OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS CHILDREN”

And what value, exactly, is a “relationship with the children”?

I am much happier having disowned my former children and gone on to live a new life as a global man rather than a family man.

Fathers are hated. Fatherhood is hated. Fathers are despised for being fathers. And men who reject fatherhood in this despicable state are further hated on and despised. Great. So why not say “f*** all that” and just go and have a good life like I did and do? The man will be hated on for doing so. But he will be hated on anyway.

When a man is hated on no matter what he does? Then he will simply do as he pleases. Like I did and do.

This whole idea of “fighting for your children” is stupid. If ALL men who have had their right to be the father they chose to be simply REFUSED to fight, refused to co-operate in ANY way, and killed any man who tried to enslave them? This would be over in a month.

It is ONLY because men “fight for the relationship with the kids” that the system that they can not win against continues.

And you men wonder why I call you stupid?

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 07:17

And do I need to repeat? Child support is voluntary.

Best to learn how to not volunteer.

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LucianSolaris August 23, 2011 at 07:56

@Globalman (AKA Peter-Andrew)

“Men are not going to revolt in any significant number. The book has been out nearly a year. I think about 5 or 6 men have bothered to free themselves so far.”

Challenge Accepted…

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LucianSolaris August 23, 2011 at 07:56

offtopic, how the fuck did I end up with babyface as my avatar?

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LucianSolaris August 23, 2011 at 08:15

Something to point me in the direction of this book would be helpful. All I get from google is some Australian psychic’s blogspam on you.

Anybody attacking your message would attack just the message, instead they attack you for woman hating and misogyny, among other reasons. This believe it or not actually lends you credence, and with previous readings on the UCC section 1-308 and other related sections and the bankrupt (financial) history of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA I am willing to delve deeper into your [and other's related] works.

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LucianSolaris August 23, 2011 at 08:32
universe August 23, 2011 at 08:42

This is the one area which seems to have gotten better for men in the last 20 years. It is small consolation though. The Census found the same pattern in its statistical brief on child support in 1991:
Of the 4.9 million women due payments, 76 percent received at least a portion of the amount they were owed. The corresponding rate for the 400,000 men owed money was 63 percent.

– Dalrock, though still on topic, I’m going to vere off around the corner a bit. You and likely some others already know of the following, but for the sake of the audience scope, including new-comers, here, again is some old news:
(parenthesis mine)
Data gleaned from the U.S. Census Bureau – Child Support and Alimony:
1989 Series p60 No. 173, pages 6&7 of the 1989 Census – Current Population Report issued in 1991
-(not verbatim) most fathers with joint custody or visitation privileges (say what?) pay their support in full. Out of 10 million single parent households, absent fathers complied in the following manner.
Of the 54% of fathers that had visitation privileges (when is ever seeing one’s own children a privilege? more a right, I’d say) -79.1% paid their child support in full.
Men with joint custody awarded, 7.3% of cases, -90.3% paid in full.
The men whom neither had custody or visitation awarded, 37.9% of cases
-only 44.5% paid their support in full.
For those not following the numbers barrage – more visitation results in higher c/s compliance (that is, for those able to pay).

Off topic.
Submit a P.O. Box # and a photocopy of the Wisconsin Poverty Report can be mailed to you.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 09:34

Not far off topic…..

On Forbes there is a top 20 richest people in the world….so I took a look.

Guess what I noticed? There are only two women on the list. BOTH inherited their wealth. There is not a woman on the top 20 list who started anything or took anything small and made it big. Not one.

http://www.forbes.com/2011/03/09/billionaires-20-richest_slide.html

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 09:38

LucianSolaris August 23, 2011 at 08:32

There is also a copy here. I am using CAF more on spear head rather than my personal site. The book was published to my personal site before CAF was created . But CAF is where I am focusing on actually bringing crimes to light and all the work I am doing in Australia and Ireland.

So far other men have not taken up the offer of a CAF site in their country or state even though I am paying for it.

CAF is a single purpose site….remedy crimes against fathers. Period.

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/1/threadid/538/scope/posts/Default.aspx

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 09:43

LucianSolaris August 23, 2011 at 08:15

A mate of mine in Dublin went to court over his child support case. When the judge asked him if he was his name he replied “Are you addressing me?”…this little tit for tat went on for a while until the judge declared

“This man is clearly not sane, case dismissed.”

A judge can not address a man, he can only address a fiction.

So later on they grabbed him and threw him in jail for new years eve just to show him that they could kidnap him any time they wanted. He’s been grabbed and kidnapped a few times now. He’s starting to really enjoy it as only an irish man could! LOL!!

He now just laughs when they kidnap him as they are never able to present any paperwork to support it.

I have just kicked off my first conflict case in Germany challenging the German Guvment to prove they have any right to interfere with my right of travel…..one point to my favour is that Angela Merkel now has 100,000 likes on facebook. I am pretty sure she does not want me showing up there. LOL!!

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Firepower August 23, 2011 at 11:26

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c)

Firepower.
Men are not going to revolt in any significant number. The book has been out nearly a year. I think about 5 or 6 men have bothered to free themselves so far.

They’re not men – they’re male. Men would have torn this place apart 30 years ago.

No.
The “mrm” is a mix of jaded, worn out old guys mgtow’ing
and singlemombois raised on the fantasy of easy, bloodless victory of Game Boy.

THAT is a combo bound to fail.
Mark my words: such impotent stock will still be here
impotently ranting as their arthritic bones sprout gray hair and wrinkles.

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thehermit August 23, 2011 at 12:18

“Any idea what the level of misandry is like in the Czech republic and Hungary? I’m seeking to scout out future possible home bases in the near future through vacations.”
I can’t say anything about the Chech Republic, but i’m hungarian, and lived nearly all my life here.
i think there is misandry here as everywhere in europe, but we have a big advantage compared to US or western europe: feminism was never strong here. When i say “feminism”, hungarian people think about a bunch of loonies instead of “you go grrrl!” so the word has a bad reputation generally.
The countryside is better than the capital (IMO): more traditional people, (including women), less hypocrisy.

Difficulty: the language is pretty hard to learn.

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EF August 23, 2011 at 15:29

Misandry in Finland appears to be as bad as it is in States. MRA activists are ridiculed, slandered and threatened to a degree it would bring jail sentences were it the opposite genders.

And there’s our fine ‘sexual equality’ female president. We couldn’t have found a worse candidate for the position. Good thing her reign will be over very soon. Still, she’s doing all she can while she can..

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/02/defence_forces_to_be_probed_for_equal_opportunities_2391085.html

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3DShooter August 23, 2011 at 17:21

And don’t forget the insurance, men usually get stuck with that too.

My experience from last year is that after forking out $6k for an attorney, and another $6k while it wound it’s way through the kangaroo family court I still ended up paying $900/mo in insurance and $200/mo in child exploitation/extortion (aka child support). That was more than the entire amount of unemployment which at the time was my only income – thank whatever deity for being a saver and having no debt. In the meantime the PEW had the house she never made a payment on re-roofed, go figure . . .

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Attila August 23, 2011 at 21:11

In order to really drive a woman up the wall successfully – as a man you must get in the position where you do NOT care what the outcome is (wanting nothing from them). Otherwise – you stand a chance of being manipulated to the hilt. A good strategy is to let HER physically attack YOU first- then YOU can call the police or sue the pantsuit off her. No Quarter.

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Attila August 23, 2011 at 21:15

If I wanted children – I would try to find a woman willing to rent her uterus. You can always hire a nice and civilized nanny that would probably be a better mother to the child. It’s quite feasible, legally speaking.

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Chevy Chase August 23, 2011 at 22:53

@PAN

God your fucken boring. Change the record dude.

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Stoltz August 24, 2011 at 07:04

Bob Smith wrote:

Further, even if we accept those numbers as true, why isn’t dad only paying half of it?

This has long been my (main) argument regarding child support. As long as the custodial parent (read: woman) “provides” for the child(ren) then the state really doesn’t care about her or the children’s well-being – financial or otherwise – only the noncustodial parent is subjected to government accounting. Of course this is unconstitutional under the Equal Protection clause, but then so many other things in Family Law are as well.

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universe August 24, 2011 at 07:21

Men would have torn this place apart 30 years ago.

– Firepower, why weren’t the 30 year ago man tearing down the emerging gynochracy?

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Goatboy August 24, 2011 at 10:36

Firepower whines:

‘They’re not men – they’re male. Men would have torn this place apart 30 years ago.’

Males like you are worse than the feminists you pathetic right-wing nutjob. The last thing men need is more ‘real man’ bitching about what constitutes manhood.

And what do you say to men who weren’t even alive 30 years ago? Are they responsible for what those hippie retards started long before they were even born?

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Robert August 24, 2011 at 10:47

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) August 23, 2011 at 04:31

Robert August 23, 2011 at 02:19
“OT; Sign the petition to repeal VAWA.”

Robert. Why is it that men like you are so stupid as to believe there is any point in signing petitions? I’d really like to know. It is a genuine question. All over the web I see stupid men asking other stupid men to sign petitions. The stupidity beggars belief but there are tens of thousands of men signing petitions out there.

Here. Let me explain it to you again in small words that maybe you can understand.

YOUR GUVMENT MEMBERS ARE CRIMINALS.

Now. Is there any part of that you do not comprehend?

PAN, THERE IS NOTHING STUPID ABOUT PERFORMING THE WORKS OF A MEN’S RIGHTS ACTIVIST!

I DO NOT NEED TO PROVE MYSELF TO YOU!

As someone has mentioned, politicians only respond to those who can offer them support. If enough men sign petitions AND speak publicly, it brings attention to Men’s/Father’s rights. IF they reject the petition(s), it proves who/what they are AND it proves what they stand for.

As I have stated before, I am NOT some keyboard commndo, I work in ways that other men are scared to of doing. I could run a blog or website or, I can do my work in the most effective manner that IS making/gaining results. It IS men like you that chase away, and “kill” many MRA’s and future MRA’s. You ARE NOT an appointed leader of the MRA/FRA movements. I DO NOT DESERVE YOUR INSULTS/INSINUATIONS.

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Robert August 24, 2011 at 10:49

Sometimes you post sh*t that is equivalent to the postings of a bitter b*tch.

STOP TREATING ME AS IF I AM THE ENEMY!

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Firepower August 24, 2011 at 10:53

universe

Men would have torn this place apart 30 years ago.

– Firepower, why weren’t the 30 year ago man tearing down the emerging gynochracy?

The blindness of complacency.

Today, with the stakes clearly raised, inaction is unforgivable.

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Goatboy August 24, 2011 at 10:58

‘The blindness of complacency.

Today, with the stakes clearly raised, inaction is unforgivable.’

If it’s unforgivable now, then their complacency 30 years ago is unforgivable too. In 1980, feminists had been shrieking about ‘the white male gaze’ for 10 years, if not 15, and psychos like Valerie Solanas and Erica Jong had been published for years.

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oddsock August 24, 2011 at 11:00

Firepower, just curious ( again ) are you related to PAN ?

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universe August 24, 2011 at 14:52

The blindness of complacency.
Today, with the stakes clearly raised, inaction is unforgivable.
Firepower

– Can’t argue too much against that, but, are you referring to now or 30 yesteryear?

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King Alfred August 24, 2011 at 16:01

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

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Chevy Chase August 24, 2011 at 20:10

@Robert August 24, 2011 at 10:47

Right on! Keep on fighting the good fight. PANsy is a either a moronic sociopath (as his hate sites seem to infer – thanks for the links, dopey – how many other men here have that many MALE enemies?) or he is a psyop troll sent in to distract and divide. Either way, he’s just an embarrassment. Fuck of Nolan you pissass cunt.

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Firepower August 26, 2011 at 10:43

Goatboy

And what do you say to men who weren’t even alive 30 years ago?

Grow up.
Quit blaming others.
Create your OWN destiny…

If it’s unforgivable now, then their complacency 30 years ago is unforgivable too.

…Instead of complaining to your mom about what your big brothers got away with.

Are they responsible for what those hippie retards started long before they were even born?

No more than the “hippie retards” were responsible for US policy in southeast Asia. At least those “hippie retards” transformed their world via an actual movement.

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Firepower August 29, 2011 at 11:01

universe

The blindness of complacency.
Today, with the stakes clearly raised, inaction is unforgivable.
Firepower

– Can’t argue too much against that, but, are you referring to now or 30 yesteryear?

Now.

We can’t fix the past.

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Tupu1 August 30, 2011 at 13:22

for the second time i’ve been referred to same mediator (elderly women) that keeps telling me that there is no way i’m getting an equal parenting plan because my 20 month old baby can’t be away from her mom for that long. She has been very bias including and agreeing with my ex-that I couldn’t physically care for my daughter because i’m in a wheelchair(low injury). Even with documentation that proves i can do anything with out a problem. I went through a full functional capacity test and proved that i would have no problem caring for a child of that age. My attorney feels that for a child that youg it’s true that i cannot get a equal parenting plan.

So should I write a letter to the judge exolaining the negative attitude of the mediator before the mediator submitts her recommandation?

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universe September 1, 2011 at 17:45

Now.
We can’t fix the past.

Firepower

– Again, no arguement.
What feminism had organized in the by-gone era went right under the radar of most people alive then. The public work of the individual and collective feminist with its resulting social plague was foreseen by few. And little in the way of concise data in refutation of feminism was available.
Today, many people still aren’t aware of the source for why certain restricitve conditions effect their lives as they do (two-earner families, continuously burgeoning statute social laws, bitterness between the sexes, acrimonious family court decisions, legislated female favourtism, and so on).
I can be as tolerant toward the young man alive today who may not know more than what he’s been taught through pop culture schooling as much as I am toward those alive in the past who were around to oppose feminism.

People in both pre and current feminist eras were and are unprepared to argue against it. Little available data was around 30 years ago to challenge feminism and what is available today is scattered in books (for profit) and found all over the web. There’s not much in the way of a concentrated resistance. But, slowly this is changing.

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Deadbeat Dad February 6, 2013 at 20:06

I really woke up to late myself. I think the 3 most saddest things that happened in my life was: 1) Was realising after 7 years of fighting (3 different lawyers, a bunch of investgators, mediation, supervised visitations, pro se etc etc) to protect my 2-4hrs visitations with my daughter that none of it mattered! That what was important was how much money i had (childsupport)

2) That all the crap that my ex and the courts put me thru (bias, got to protect mom and child from things that could happen, but never did, to making it so hard to enforce parenting time etc,etc) to find out that my daughter startted useing drugs and drinking as a teenager, at fourteen was shaking up with some 19yr old, has had 3 different guys introduced in her life as a father figure or dad! Has been expelled from public schools, And now is 18 and for a living is stripping! Wow so much for what is in the best interest of the child! Or mommy being the best care provider!

3) After searching for many years to find her because even

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Deadbeat Dad February 6, 2013 at 20:39

to this this day i have no physcal address for my kid, found her on myspace that even with family telling her all the things i did to try to be a part of her life and get thru the brainwashing that her mom put her thru its still bullshit to her! And i was the one who established paternity and went after the state to establish me and my daughters rights! I even got involved with fathers rights movments for years and nothing has changed.

I agree with alot of the comments postted, Some are practical, some are not. The problem with getting angry and going postal on the system or your ex, is that it just justifies that men are violent and more domestic violence laws need to be put into place to protect poor defensless weman. There has been some action to challenge the laws constitutionally but to no victory, its hard to win when even rational, common since isnt common! Anyway, what is also funny is you never hear about mom lighting herself on fire with gas because she didnt get her childsupport or going stark

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Deadbeat Dad February 6, 2013 at 20:59

Raving mad and killing mom and kids because of there children where legally kidnapped, but it happens to fathers, but press on it is the D.V angle. I agree that the only real solution now is to do what the slaves did and create an undergroung railroad and get out of the states! Because right now its against the law to leave a state if you owe childsupport. Dont get me wrong i dont have an issue with supporting my child if it be childsupport or whatever. its just if they just want me too be responsible then im nt interestted, I would rather be a DEADBEAT FATHER! lol, but if you want me to be a parent and then be responsible then im your guy! Anyway sorry for the 3 posts and grammar or misspelled words im on my nephews playstation 3 lol.

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CA March 12, 2013 at 16:10

Lets band together and change this barbaric system
It is not right that women use the system now to extort money
From willing and loving fathers
Women who trap men have kids to collect a check
There are great fathers out their that WANT to be fathers
And love their children
Money can’t buy Love / the love of a Father
Inprisonment is not the answer
Changing this law is
Please join me in signing the petition below

http://signon.org/sign/can-the-barbaric-dead

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Hungry Father September 21, 2013 at 14:39

I was a father at 18. The girl I was with went crazy and did what her abusive(physical, verbal, and sexual) mother wanted and broke up with me. The system has relentlessly screwed me to the point where I can’t pay bills, can’t use a car, or own one for that matter, and can’t leave. The system screwed me before I even knew what I was getting into. My paychecks are always cut in half which has led me to the need to disappear. Unfortunately, I know little about ways to do so. Anyone have any advice? Thanks – financially dstroyed father

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j.b.maxwell January 23, 2014 at 01:04

so much for equal right, how about the ladies put their bras back on, get in the kitchen and cook a descent meal,

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Reality Check March 19, 2014 at 10:08

I understand fully how men feel. This child support system needs to be dismantled completely, not partially and not reformed! It is rotten to the core, destroying the lives of fathers and mothers, with the real victims being the children. They kidnap your kids and sell them back to you, and if you refuse to ‘cooperate’ with the Nazi system, they lock you up like a criminal. I have studied this system extensively for years, and found so many sever problems that equal to human rights violations and domestic terrorism! Yes, that is exactly what predominantly fathers, and mothers are subjected to. Only thing I don’t get is why people keep paying into this unconstitutional and criminal system that is deliberately and hell bent on literally and systematically killing you physically, mentally, financially, and emotionally! If you were faced with any other situation you did not like, you would walk away, so why not here?
Because they black mail you with your own kids, by empowering the custodial parent, who is most cases is the mother, who does not realize that the system is not helping her, but actually keeping her and the children in a box of welfare and emotional hell without the presence of the father.
You say people will never rise up and revolt against this domestic terrorism? All you have to do is stop paying! don’t pay another penny into this corrupt hell hole system.
This corruption will crash and burn under it’s own weight and debt if everyone just stops feeding it financially.
You have to be strong and understand that allowing this system to blackmail you financially to see your kids, literally at the threat of imprisonment, means there is something SERIOUSLY wrong!
You are already having a very hard time seeing your kids, so be strong, and make this bold move of not feeding this corruption, that is the best message you can send to the bastards on top running this scam. Your kids will eventually grow up to understand that their Dad/Mom did not give in and bow down to a Nazi system that completely destroyed their home and parents. They will grow up and understand to be strong just like you, so such situations are not allowed to exist in their lifetimes also.
The solution is simple, but we all have to make this commitment to stand up for whats right, for freedom, for liberty, and for our kids.
Everybody just STOP PAYING into this system!

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