On the Use of Force

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by W.F. Price on June 21, 2011

Thomas Ball’s suicide has prompted discussions about what is an appropriate means of resistance. Because a self-immolation is an act that precipitates a lot of emotion, some people are advocating the use of force (in many cases spuriously, I assume), and some are asking what my thoughts are on “violence” as a solution to political problems.

I don’t think it’s the right time for men to take on the responsibility that use of force entails. When one takes it to that point, there’s no going back, or at least that’s what one should assume. If a man is responsible for death, injury or confinement – even if for a just cause – he necessarily carries an enormous burden.

However, accountability goes both ways, and this seems to have been lost on state actors here. Our ideological opponents regularly advocate state violence against men, and it seems that they feel that using the state or the law as a weapon somehow absolves them of responsibility. This is exactly the argument that Pontius Pilate made as he ordered the crucifixion, and it just doesn’t wash.

So, rather than speculate about whatever feeble measures individual men could take in retribution for state/feminist abuses, at this point we need to focus on the use of force against men, and hold those who advocate as well as perpetrate it responsible.

Arresting and jailing indigent men for their poverty is unjustified use of force.

Seizing men’s children on unproven pretexts or accusations is an abuse.

Beating men in their own homes is an unjustified use of force.

Attacking compliant men with dogs is excessive violence.

Shooting despondent men in the face is unjustified.

All of these things are regularly done as a direct result of feminist policy. Feminists are not even subtle about their calls for men to be jailed on their behalf — the New York Model for Batterer Programs, endorsed by Michael Kimmel’s NOMAS, conspicuously places a picture of a man in handcuffs on its website’s homepage.

The implication is that this is justice; that batterers deserve it. Well, what about the justice for men who have been falsely accused, wrongfully assaulted by police, wrongfully incarcerated and robbed of their property? Why do the perpetrators in these cases escape punishment?

There is a clear imbalance of justice there, and before anyone starts hurting people, this imbalance must be articulately spelled out. It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. Without prior sustained efforts to redress grievances and a litany of legitimate complaints they would have been entirely without moral support, and that mattered a great deal in the course of the Revolution.

We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. Likewise, we, too, can demand justice for outrages against our rights and persons. Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

{ 109 comments… read them below or add one }

Jean Valjean June 21, 2011 at 11:14

You have an obligation to promote non-violence and I understand that.

However, revolution is the right of every American. This is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence (the list of grievances sent to the English Tyrant).

No man ever got any right without paying a price in blood. His blood or someone else’s blood.

If I am forced to choose I will choose the blood of the State and it’s enforcers.

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Taqman June 21, 2011 at 11:21

Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.

They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.

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Chris June 21, 2011 at 11:32

On the use of force…(I just thought this needed to be posted)

“When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. THAT WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE to these ends, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. BUT WHEN A LONG TRAIN OF ABUSES AND USURPATIONS, PURSUING INVARIABLY THE SAME OBJECT EVINCES A DESIGN TO REDUCE THEM UNDER ABSOLUTE DESPOTISM, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT, and to provide new guards for their future security. –Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.

He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:

For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing taxes on us without our consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:

For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:

For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:

For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:

For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.”

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Jean Valjean June 21, 2011 at 11:44

I paraphrased in the first post for everyone’s convenience. But still, men should take the time to read the whole thing.

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Firepower June 21, 2011 at 12:10

What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAGxGp1Bjgs

It’s like the Judean People’s Front in Life of Brian.

Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.

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keyster June 21, 2011 at 12:11

If hardcore liberals proclaim the only way to stop terrorism is to address the Muslim grievances that cause it in the first place, it could be construed as an effective strategy.

What Thomas Ball proved was setting yourself on fire doesn’t work. The only thing men and fathers need to be heard, is more of us yelling louder and never shutting up. The oppressive male is already a villian, so acting upon it only serves to validate what we already know to be true.

So you bombard them with stoic logic, reason and facts and eventually they have to surrender, because the corner they’ve painted themselves into becomes a very small and lonely place.

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oddsock June 21, 2011 at 12:18

“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”

Winston Churchill

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Firepower June 21, 2011 at 12:26

Churchill was half “American” on his mom’s side.

His intellect, wit and experience made the best quotes about us since the Founding Fathers and DeTocqueville.

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oddsock June 21, 2011 at 12:47

“The women’s suffrage movement is only the small edge of the wedge, if we allow women to vote it will mean the loss of social structure and the rise of every liberal cause under the sun. Women are well represented by their fathers, brothers, and husbands.”

- Winston Churchill

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gender foreigner June 21, 2011 at 12:49

Dear All:

I am at a loss to know what to do exactly while remaining within the bounds of moral requirements. Romans 12 states the private person is not to use force. Romans 13 states that the state is required to use such against evil. It does the exact opposite most of the time, and ALWAYS as per gender.

I pray to Jesus Christ to use his force variously against all the Hillary Jezebels everywhere and their agencies, big time.

As for myself, I will continue to work on the book and look for word, and I will continue to speak up all the more boldly, get my *ss kicked for so doing, and then pray to Christ to take measures against such gender criminals.

Big change by force is needed. Come Lord Jesus, come.

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Firepower June 21, 2011 at 12:59

gender foreigner

I pray to Jesus Christ to use his force variously against all the Hillary Jezebels everywhere and their agencies, big time.

That will do you no good.

Yahweh didn’t do a thing to help Jews in the Holocaust, or Stalin’s pogroms.
Nor, did Jesus and Yahweh do a thing to help Christians executed by Nero et al.

Waiting on God/god is futile at best, or worse, placing the responsibility of action on a mystical source.

God helps those
who help themselves

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oddsock June 21, 2011 at 12:59

Gender foreigner

Maybe these excerpt/quotes will help ?

“We see things and people not as they are, but as we are”

No event justifies a negative feeling. There is no situation in the world that justifies a negative feeling. That’s what all our mystics have been crying themselves hoarse to tell us. But nobody listens. The negative feeling is in you. In the Bhagavad-Gita, the sacred book of the Hindus, Lord Krishna says to Arjuna, “Plunge into the heat of battle and keep your heart at the lotus feet of the Lord.” A marvelous sentence.

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Taqman June 21, 2011 at 13:14

MGTOW may be viable short term (working at a low responsibility job, minimizing tax payments, and living a simple life in a 1 bedroom flat).

It cannot work long term.

All it takes is a few cads and sperm donors to impregnate every single mother who wants a child.

She can then use the power of the state to continually ramp up tax payments on you for the benefit of her brood. At some point, as the economy collapses, it will be impossible for most men who want to go their own way to afford even a minimalistic lifestyle that doesn’t involve homelessness.

Eventually it will come down to three choices:

1. expat (will work for some with a mobile source of income or significant savings, but will not be viable for the vast majority)

2. Fight back with force

3. Men continue to go their own way by living under a bridge.

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Anonymous age 69 June 21, 2011 at 13:14

Sorry, the lists of grievances have been presented LITERALLY millions of times. Our courthouses are filled with probably thousands of tons of documents, petitioning within the legal system for redress, by the nearly million male divorce victims each year. I think the number is in the tens of millions. It hasn’t worked. It will not work without violence.

It is not the MRA’s who advocate violence. It is the judges and lawyers and cops and government officials who make it clear they will continue their evil ways until they are killed. They respect nothing else, therefore they advocate violence.

Morally, in every way, including presenting the long list of grievances, if the men of this nation leveled every building in the nation it would not be sufficient for what has been done to us.

There is a practical matter. We don’t have the men and the guns to win.

There are two things that can be done. First, GTHO. The most ignorant African slave knew if he could get to Canada, he would be free. So, what is your problem? Clearly, South is better, Canada is as bad as the US.

Second, DO NOT MARRY ANYONE IN THE ANGLOSPHERE, AND DO NOT GIVE WOMEN YOUR GENETIC MATERIALS. Judge bastards and police bastards and lawyer bastards and child support bastards are totally dependent upon a steady supply of male idiots making babies and getting married and hanging out with increasingly insane American Women. Starve them out without so much as a hint at violence. It’s called MGTOW among other things.

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SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 13:27

In his Selma speech, Martin Luther King Jr. was not concerned that his followers were angry. He knew that this anger was the engine that would drive change in the America.

Without energy no movement can occur.

He used the expression “Rightous Anger”.

I hear a tremendous amount of rightous anger in the MR community.

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Jean Valjean June 21, 2011 at 13:31

No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.

Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.

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oddsock June 21, 2011 at 13:38

Well said Anonymous aged 69.

Guys, we have all seen the same old same old arguments and suggestions for many many years. It’s as simple as this, it ain’t gonna happen. The pwers that be really do not give one flying feck how many of us petition the courts or hit them with every logical argument and fact until hell freezes over. They are just slightly amused, if that ?

Want to organize and fight ? My arse! We can’t even support each other even on sites such as this.

Just to add my version of the options we have to those already given by Anonymous aged 69. They are much the same.

You can marry or co habit in the west and put your nads in some bints purse and be a pack horse and wage slave with the sword of Damocles hanging over you or we can become MGTOW. It’s as simple as that. It is WE that must change not the law or women or society et al.

(Father Anthony de Mello) “Happiness is not caused”.

“How do you change things? How do you change yourselves? There are many things you must understand here, or rather, just one thing that can be expressed in many ways. Imagine a patient who goes to a doctor and tells him what he is suffering from. The doctor says, “Very well, I’ve understood your symptoms. Do you know what I will do? I will prescribe a medicine for your neighbor!” The patient replies, “Thank you very much, Doctor, that makes me feel much better.” Isn’t that absurd? But that’s what we all do. The person who is asleep always thinks he’ll feel better if somebody else changes. You’re suffering because you are asleep, but you’re thinking, “How wonderful life would be if somebody else would change; how wonderful life would be if my neighbor changed, my wife changed, my boss changed.”

We always want someone else to change so that we will feel good. But has it ever struck you that even if your wife changes or your husband changes, what does that do to you? You’re just as vulnerable as before; you’re just as idiotic as before; you’re just as asleep as before. You are the one who needs to change, who needs to take medicine. You keep insisting, “I feel good because the world is right.” Wrong! The world is right because I feel good. That’s what all the mystics are saying”

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Demonspawn June 21, 2011 at 13:54

There are but three solutions to feminism:

1. Revolt and institute a new republic sans the 19th Amendment
2. Expat to a foreign nation not yet corrupted by feminism.
3. Turtle (MGOTW) and prepare for the collapse.

For anyone considering #1 on a personal level who wishes to “clear their conscience” all you need do is report your violation of rights to the FBI and request prosecution of the official under Title 18 Section 242 (Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law). If the FBI refuses to pursue the charges, then you have received conformation that the State will not protect your rights. When the State will not protect your rights, it is the duty of Free Citizens to protect their own rights.

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SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 14:17

Well said Oddsock, Izy is a lucky lamb. I used the rightous anger I feel toward a society that treats me and, now that my son is 14, him as well, to go my own way.

Now I am doing better at work, no problems, smooth sailing toward early retirement. I’ve re-started a business that I had to stop because of my ex. I have time to grow it, I don’t service some snatch, I have funds to grow the business because I’m not spending my money feeding a life support system for said snatch.

Let the world service my dreams. No protests, no marches, no risks to my health or freedom.

It was as simple as making a decision but as hard as changing entire perspective and goals I didn’t even know I had. Having a child to care for helps, and it’s a decison that gets easier with age.

And coming to places like this helps keep me on track.

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Rebel June 21, 2011 at 14:26

Maybe I can just add my voice to that of Anon69 and Oddsock.

Live you own life. Enjoy.

Get the hell out!

Women are truly fucked in the head. I don’t know a single one who isn’t.

Not worth it!

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greyghost June 21, 2011 at 15:00

This is from Anonymous age 69 (how long have you been 69?)
Second, DO NOT MARRY ANYONE IN THE ANGLOSPHERE, AND DO NOT GIVE WOMEN YOUR GENETIC MATERIALS. Judge bastards and police bastards and lawyer bastards and child support bastards are totally dependent upon a steady supply of male idiots making babies and getting married and hanging out with increasingly insane American Women. Starve them out without so much as a hint at violence. It’s called MGTOW among other things.
One thing we can all work on is a male pill. Put your money down style. And market the hell out of it. It is alot easier to destroy a government by letting it starve than it is to pull off a stunt like this http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/AIRCHRONICLES/apj/apj96/sum96/barnett.html here”s more
http://prernalal.com/banned%20books/U.S.%20Marine%20Corps%20-%20FMFRP%2012-18%20-%20Mao%20Tse-Tung%20-%20On%20Guerilla%20Warfare.pdf
Taking up arms is a serious thing MGTOW is ten times more deadly for it kills by slow bleed. Get 40% of the female population to involuntary spinterhood childless and pain will reign in the west.

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tom47 June 21, 2011 at 15:04

Forty years ago a group of women gathered in the parking lot of the Miss America Pageant in Atlantic city and burned their bras in protest of the event. Some claim they didn’t burn anything but only threatened to to so. Forty years latter feminists are still called bra burners. The media covered the event and it propelled the movement into the public eye. Even those who laughed still noticed it. The unwillingness of the media to pay attention to Men’s issues is unexceptionable and needs to be addressed. Complaining about it to ourselves is useless, it needs to be addressed in a manner that no one can ignore, over and over and over again. Enough already about the SWAT team surrounding the guys from England at the Washington monument.
Protests of a dramatic nature do not need to be violent to attract attention and in fact the violence of the opposition makes the protest more effective. To do this however requires LARGE numbers of protesters who by their numbers and commitment are threatening without violence. The idea is to forces our opponents to either recognize our claims or react in fear with repression, thus showing themselves as cowards and hypocrites.
Every time I go over to Glenn Sacks I see the same thing, a hundred proposals with little meaningful results. At that rate we’re looking at 100 years to achieve reproductive equality, machine pregnancies will be here way before that. Reproductive and civil liberty issues are Equity issues that require a different approach than the Identity issues of freeing ourselves from repressive and exploitative social roles and obligations. We can think our way to the latter, we need to fight our way to the former.The two sets of issues require two sets of responses.
Perhaps we should not talk about Equity issues here since we only seem to embarrass ourselves when we do.

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KARMA MRA MGTOW June 21, 2011 at 15:31

I would suggest a passive aggressive stance to begin with, millions of males not getting out of bed for a few days, that would really fuck up the rich and the government, lets bring the whole western world to a halt.

Stop paying tax…..

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SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 15:39

@ Tom

That was then, the TV was new and the power of a few photographs was still huge.

Today we have the internet. In 50 years we may hear a description of our time being one in which many men were abused, left hanging by women who a generation before stormed into mens places at work and took their jobs all the while lying about their intentions carrying a banner that said equality.

Men responded by eliminating their need for women. Women found that they lost lovers, helpers, workers and fathers for their children.

Men gained independence a more secure and enduring relationship with their children who, for the first time in recorded history were known to be the mens children by DNA validation.

Men achieved these things despite a concerted effort by women, who at the time controlled the media and government and made congregation of men nearly illegal.

Men did this by forming new societies were men helped other men on early digital networks which at the time were called “the internet”.

That Johnny is what your great grandfather fought so hard to achieve, a future where you could live, work and raise your family in freedom and peace.

That is what I see as a possible outcome of all this.

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Classic Joe June 21, 2011 at 15:40

Pretty much everyone believes in violence in some context. The subject is bullshit. You aren’t allowed to say that action X by person A deserves violent reaction Y by person B. It doesn’t matter how sane and reasonable reaction Y is in context.

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MobilePT June 21, 2011 at 15:41

@tom47: “At that rate we’re looking at 100 years to achieve reproductive equality”

The rate of change is rarely constant. A pendulum changes direction at zero velocity and gains speed until it passes through the center. I’m certain that the rate of social change will accelerate.

Similarly, even at slack water, there is typically some water flowing in each direction. Thus, I would expect we see some amount of feminist gains, even if they are experiencing massive losses elsewhere.

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E June 21, 2011 at 15:43

Taqman says:
“All it takes is a few cads and sperm donors to impregnate every single mother who wants a child.

She can then use the power of the state to continually ramp up tax payments on you for the benefit of her brood. At some point, as the economy collapses, it will be impossible for most men who want to go their own way to afford even a minimalistic lifestyle that doesn’t involve homelessness.”

A quick and dirty LCA (life cycle analysis) calculation reveals that a marriage will cost a man about $500,000. Government social welfare (to pay for all the dumb decision making by single mothers) makes up maybe 1/5th of what a marriage costs. Yes surrendering $100,000 is very annoying I’m not happy about it. But that’s not enough to financially break me.

I have a 20 year plan and it’s simple: work hard, save hard, elevate my status position. I was born into a poor family and one of my biggest life goals is to achieve upper middle class status. I guess that’s what you would call a man with a half a million dollars well that and also a very eligible bachelor.

Sorry Ladies I’m staying single for life. All it would take is 10% of the male population with a net worth of $500,000 to protest by remaining single and that would bring the feminist movement down to it’s knees. Money talks. The only way to exert power is with money.

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KARMA MRA MGTOW June 21, 2011 at 15:47

Jean Valjean June 21, 2011 at 13:31

In the U.S the majority don’t vote!!!!!

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SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 15:50

@ E

It wouldn’t take that long. It’s happening now, articles in the NYT are concerned that men in their prime refuse to work.

Many people are employed to do these mathematical predictions regularly, the minute they see a serious trend towoard The Powers That Be (TM) having to part with any extra casholla, they are going to dump that bit@h, she being the entire Femborg unit…and they will all be like that.

I heard talk of later female retirement just isn’t going away…lol.

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KARMA MRA MGTOW June 21, 2011 at 15:51

“Taqman June 21, 2011 at 13:14

MGTOW may be viable short term (working at a low responsibility job, minimizing tax payments, and living a simple life in a 1 bedroom flat).”

???? That is only one way to MGTOW – Men Going Their Own Way….

I own a house and a farm, I still pickup chicks at the pub, but I am still going my own way.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) June 21, 2011 at 15:57

Chris June 21, 2011 at 11:32

Correct Chris. Regardless of what is happening in the US/Canada. I have gone to the trouble of creating cases in Australia and Ireland that clearly prove that the crimes being committed against fathers like me are well known to the political leaders and condoned by those leaders.

The leaders of Australia and Ireland will stand trial in front of a jury of 12 men. Those 12 men will re-assert their guilt because guilt has already been established and then they will issue remedy instructions. Should the so called leaders refuse the remedy they will be outlawed.

Every member of the Australian federal parliament will be put on trial.

It is to be remembered that all members of the Australian Federal Parliament, NSW Parliament, and Police officers were offered the opportunity to admit their crimes, beg forgiveness, stand trial and make remedy in courts of their own making acting under supervision of the Peoples Courts of Australia.

They refused this invitation.

Therefore these criminals have made it clear they intend to attempt to get away with their crimes.

The use of courts is called for. And should these criminals refuse to make remedy the use of force to expel these criminals from the community is required. The criminals can choose whether they wish to be expelled from the community alive or dead. Makes no difference to me. But being expelled from the community is the ancient and time honoured punishment for a criminal.

And I am one who was physically assaulted while standing in my own living room citing legislation that was not forthcoming when it was paid for. I have no intention of allowing this to continue to other men. And every member of the Australian Federal Parliament is fully aware of my position and the position of many other men on this point.

A shame the men in the man-o-sphere are not up to sending a few faxes to their politicians and putting them on Lawful Notice that their crimes will be dealt with. Here it is again for those who missed it.

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/97/threadid/196/scope/posts/Default.aspx

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 12
E June 21, 2011 at 16:05

SingleDad says:
“It wouldn’t take that long. It’s happening now, articles in the NYT are concerned that men in their prime refuse to work.”

This is the number one biggest disagreement I have with the MGTOW movement. There are way too many single men in their 20′s who are choosing to slack off instead of taking advantage of the opportunity of
NOT having to feed an entitlement princess to save their money and elevate themselves to upper-middle class status.

Hey I should know I used to be a slacker in my 20′s and it’s the biggest regret of my life. Had I taken things seriously in my youth, I could be 5 years away from $500,000 right now. Instead I’m 15 years away from achieving that goal. Oh well better late than never I guess.

live and learn…

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7
keyster June 21, 2011 at 16:19

I like to think of you guys as the cutting edge pioneers Anonymous aged 69, and you know you might still be. Can the power of the internet, to inform and organize, be the great neutralizer…? It’s already making a small difference, but will it ever be enough?

The “Manosphere” is gaining in popularity like nothing you’ve ever seen 20 0r 30 years hence. I would have never known about you and the old brotherhood without it.

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AfOR June 21, 2011 at 16:26

E…

I was making, clear, take home, a quarter of a million a year, that was sterling, that was the mid/late eighties… before the latest rounds of inflation, when 25k would buy you a house free and clear

let me tell you something, it don’t mean shit, it just makes you a target and fucks your head up, it can’t buy you your health or your sanity of your freedom….

if you have dry feet and a full belly and five bucks in your pocket that is enough.

trust me on this…

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) June 21, 2011 at 16:28

Anonymous age 69 June 21, 2011 at 13:14

Correct. They have had plenty of warning. I know other men went before me and they did a lot of good work. Stephen Baskervilles book being the seminal work. However. To my knowledge no-one has ever created an iron-clad case that puts the leader of two countries on the hook for specific crimes and has Lawfully Noticed every single politician at the federal and state level of their crimes. The Lawful Notice is one of the most powerful lawful documents there is. Simply put? It means that the person who is noticed can not claim to not know what was on the Lawful Notice in a court of law. That men here refuse to educate themselves on this point is a disgrace. If the grievances of men have been ‘presented’ a million times please show me some of the Lawful Notices this was done on. I’ve never seen one.

You know what I have seen? Letters. Documents. Men begging to be treated better. Men demonstrating they are children going to their masters. That is what I have seen. No disrespect intended but I would really like to know how it could possibly be that in 30 years no other man has figured out how to use a Lawful Notice before me. It’s not like it’s a secret. The bible talks about these things if you know how to read it.

Event today? As I participate in other groups? I see stupid ignorant men trying to ‘get politicians to fix the family law’. I see stupid ignorant men calling for ‘law reform’. These men deserve their slavery. Maybe they should ALL set themselves on fire and burn on court house steps because they sure as hell are not doing anything useful for anyone.

I have hammered men over and over again.

THE POLITICIANS, JUDGES AND LAWYERS ARE CRIMINALS.

And for some reason stupid and ignorant men think talking to these criminals will get them somewhere. I am at a loss to explain the stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of these men. I really am. I would not have thought my dog was stupid enough to try the same thing over and over again having seen it fail so often. And my dog was not very smart. But she sure was smarter than 99% of MRAs/MRMs.

Does not the complete lack of reporting of Tom Ball tell you men that the guvment totally, completely, and utterly controls the media? And does it not tell you that they WANT to abuse men up to and including death? We all know that if a woman set herself on fire it would be BIG NEWS, right? Well? Why is it not news when it’s a man?

Because this is how it is supposed to be.

Gentlemen. There are two ways to go about dealing with criminal guvments. The right way and the way that leads to civil wars.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn tells you the right way. He talks of ‘how we burned in the camps. If only we had met them with a pitchfork or whatever was to hand as they came through the door we would not have been here’. And he is correct.

In studying this problem in 2008-9 and working on a strategy that will work when the guvment controls the water, food and weapons the answer that I developed was as obvious as it is simple and it’s in the book. If courts fail? Men are well advised to form small groups of 6 who swear to defend the rights of the other 5 should they be criminally victimized. The cells of 6 must be secret. You must only ever meet once to discuss this topic. And you must never discuss it again with anyone as agents are everywhere. 1 in 20 people, or there abouts, are agents. Don’t forget that. And agents offer to ‘help’. Don’t forget that.

Those 6 ‘blend in’ to the community. There should be no obvious connection that is not explainable between those 6. And should one have his rights violated, go through the court processes and the criminal not make remedy. Then any of the other 5 are under oath to take action.

You want to live free? You are going to have to defend your right to life, liberty and enjoyment of your property. And you are going to have to do it in small groups. And you are going to have to mean it. Apart from that? You are going to be slaves. Me? I know how to take care of myself in such a way that none of the criminals will harm me. Do you?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 10
AfOR June 21, 2011 at 16:32

BTW, apropos of nothing……..

http://wimminz.wordpress.com/ is me

partially because of the language I use…. I get hits / visitors using the following search terms

nazi mercedes
african american slave
mercedes demotivator
raped and feel interrogated
skanky ho cafe
mother and daughter shagging

that’s just yesterday

I am also getting referrers such as pastebin.com which is where amongst others the lulzsec / anarchist / hacker types hang out

http://pastebin.com/4PvfceM5 just yesterday

the net is viral in ways that are hard to guess, but which rarely lend themselves to carefully crafted and directed sites, but often follow you-are-all-fucking-cunts-who-are-gonna-die uncrafted stuff

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 16:32

@ E

Men have always “slacked off” in their 20′s, it’s called learning. It was only during a brief unrealistic period of unusual and unsustainable growth after WW2, and only in the US, an epi-phenomenon of the war, did men in large numbers become wildly successful so young. These are the early baby boomers and their days are done, they’re retired.

What I’m talking about is men 30-55 not working in a taxable job, not giving money to support Hitlaries travel plans with Ms. Weiner.

The females of that era are who we fight here. They had everything and wanted more. They created a bubble of prosperity for women only within a bubble.

They did this by trickery and lies. The lies today are apparent. Young men of my generation were stuck in the middle. We had baby boom dreams and baby boom expectations but our 7 year younger brides were con-artists trained by their older sisters to take advantage of us.

I knew this early on, took precautions, and barely escaped complete ruin.

Marriage and family used to be a dangerous reckless game.

Now it’s stupidity. Still the entitlement princesses generate more entitlement princesses.

Do you think Hitlary, Pelosi and Ginsberg don’t know the bill of goods their selling to Chelsea? Please. They don’t care any more about her than they do about Bill or Monica.

Someone has to pay for Pelosi’s botox and Hitlarys cankle supports.

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SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 16:34

@ AfoR

My coffee came out of my nose….lol…

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epoche* June 21, 2011 at 16:49

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn tells you the right way. He talks of ‘how we burned in the camps. If only we had met them with a pitchfork or whatever was to hand as they came through the door we would not have been here’. And he is correct.
————————————-
As much as I abhor violence I have to believe that at some point we may have to do something before we are all herded into an institution or railroad cars.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) June 21, 2011 at 17:04

Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too? After all? What the hell is BOMBING LIBYA other than FORCE? That is the UN. And that is ALL our guvments using EXCESSIVE FORCE which is to be condemned. So the guvment calling talk of force ‘bad’ is as hypocritical as it gets.

Now….When I was being criminally abused by Judge Griffin you know what I thought? I thought to myself “Why is this man risking his life? Who is he more scared of than me?”.

THAT is how I tumbled that their must be some sort of very dangerous power telling judges what to do. Because I can assure you NO MAN would be stupid enough to cross me unless he was MORE AFRAID of crossing someone else.

So he has a day job as a judge? So what? He’s a scumbag criminal and he puts his trousers on one leg at a time just like I do. I noted the other day that Judge Griffins life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. I want him to stand trial. And the upshot is that his masters are FAR more likely to ‘suicide’ him than I am. My biggest concern is that those I have cases against will have ‘accidents’ before I get the chance to put them on trial. Judge Griffin and others who committed crimes do me no good at all dead. They do men a LOT of good alive and in front of a jury. After that? It does not matter what happens to them.

Just think of these two numbers.
1. How many men have been criminally abused by judges?
2. How many family court judges/magistrates are there?

It is called overwhelming superiority of numbers. Now. If men weren’t such cowards they would figure out the odds of being tracked down for any ‘crime’ versus the benefit of that crime. It does not take a genius to figure this one out.

And by the way? Men are well advised to know that the PTB have declared war on men. That’s pretty obvious. You should also know that all ‘Law Societies’ are run out of the London Law Society. That means all people who have sworn an oath to the ‘Law Society’ who do not operate in the UK are guilty of treason. They are the agents of a foreign power running a covert war against native peoples.

War is lawful. War is legal. There are rules of war. Any father can declare war in return and then prosecute that war in any way he sees fit. Because you can be well assured that the PTB are prosecuting their war on men just exactly as they see fit. All he needs to do is shut up about what he is doing.

The thing to remember is this. When looking for the ‘perpetrator of a crime’ the police must determine motive, means, opportunity. Since the ‘suspect pool’ for any FC judge taking the walk up the choir invisible is ALL ABUSED FATHERS the only way that they could ever find a father who dispensed justice to an FC judge is if the man was stupid enough to pick the judge in HIS case. If he picks some OTHER judge to dispense justice to? No connection? No conviction.

What is justice? Putting them on trial giving them every opportunity to remedy their crimes. And if they do not? It is a time honoured lawful practice to outlaw criminals who will not remedy their crimes. It is even described in the bible. A brother Christian who does not make remedy prescribed by the community is ‘to be treated like a heathen and tax collector’ the bible tells us.

Well? These judges are worse than any tax collectors. At least you know tax collectors are your enemy. These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 9
IronLowrider June 21, 2011 at 17:08

@Chris: As a European, I just realized that I have never read the Declaration of Independence before. Now I can’t stop thinking that our school system conceals this document from us deliberately.

Thank you for this most illuminating experience.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 2
LaughOrCry June 21, 2011 at 17:14

Demonspawn – “When the State will not protect your rights, it is the duty of Free Citizens to protect their own rights.”

That has always been the case. It’s a popular misconception that the State is there to protect individuals’ rights, if anything it’s the opposite – the people give up some of their individual rights and authority to the State in exchange for the benefits of living in a (supposedly) peaceful and stable society. It then becomes an ongoing negotiation for power between the people and the State.

Admittedly I haven’t been following the MRM for that long so I may have missed it, but I have yet to see a viable MRM manifesto: broad enough to include sufficient numbers of supporters but specific enough to have a goal and a way of getting there. Should it simply be a matter of pursuing Mens’ Rights? It’s been women pursuing their rights that has been a significant cause of the problems we’re in, so is Mens’ Rights the cure or just more of the same? Does there need to be a broader, systemic approach? If so, what and how?
It always seems to come down to Demonspawn’s three options.

I personally don’t have any moral objection to violent opposition; people have the moral right to protect themselves by whatever means necessary. In practice however it’s a different matter: it’s one thing to be the big tough guy on the Internet, quite another to be so in real life. Men are certainly capable of violence but unless it can be directed at a clear and specific dehumanised enemy men will more likely turn it upon themselves, as we have seen with Thomas Ball – as far as I know, he never actually carried out any of the attacks on courts or police stations that he encourages others to commit.

Furthermore, violent revolutions almost always move their society to the political left – if it isn’t the radicalised Left that initiates violent revolution, then they will soon enough take advantage of the chaos and hijack it for their own cause. Others have already stated here that men being violent will simply give TPTB more excuse to crack down.

Letting everything collapse does have the advantage that no-one needs to specify what is to replace it – stable and beneficial societies will eventually arise organically from what remains, but of course that is a slow and painful process. It’s very popular amongst the Right and the MRM to predict the iminent and spectacular demise of Western Civilisation. Personally I don’t think it will be Mad Max any time soon no matter how appealing that scenario might be, I think we’re in for a slow degradation of living standards for the next hundred years or so, with a few downward lurches every now and then.

So while I don’t have any answers, in order to amuse myself I have occasionally contacted various organisations like radio stations to point out some misandry I have noticed that they have promulgated. What is very interesting to me is that the people I contact don’t just laugh me off as some nut; they get very angry and defensive as if I’ve touched a nerve…
We’ve seen the feminists scatter like cockroaches when light is thrown upon their misandry, as if they suspect they’re on borrowed time.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I get the feeling that if only the MRM was a little bit more politically organised and motivated some real improvements could be achieved relatively easily; it just needs to gain some popular support. Instead of struggling against Democracy, the MRM should be using Democracy’s weaknesses against itself. People always like to be on the winning side so the MRM needs to portray itself as such.

Yes I know, words words words…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
tom47 June 21, 2011 at 17:35

@Single Dad
“That was then, the TV was new and the power of a few photographs was still huge.”
The problem with the internet is that people believe it’s real. How many people are reading this right now, 15? How many people watched TV news tonight, 50 million? No it ain’t what it used to be but it’s way bigger than us.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Chevy Chase June 21, 2011 at 17:45

Great post Pricey. I could not agree more. I can’t wait to read more of what you have to say about this matter.

Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) June 21, 2011 at 17:04

Peter, you are truly fucking insane. How long, mods, to you think it will be before this site is shut down because Nolan is PUBLICLY advocating and inciting violence against family court judges?

Most of the men on this site are intelligent and moderate. We don’t refer to each other as “cowards” and “more stupid than my dog”. Most importantly, we are certainly not one dimensional enough to publicly incite violence on this website. When are the owners of this site going to fuck this lunatic off permanently? I don’t come here to be insulted by a fool.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 14
greyghost June 21, 2011 at 18:23

Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c)
That was one wild ass post. All I can say is men need a stranger on a train site. You tell your story and I tell mine. Names addresses and photographs. And some kind gentleman will read the interesting stories and just pick one and take of business. We don’t need that shit , we still can educate young men with game. And give them a place to go when practicing MGTOW. A more realistic goal would be getting 2 to 3 million men sending 50 bucks to a pharmaceutical to develope the non hormonal pill. The pill can be marketted with headlines of trapped men. With young men practicing game their knowledge of women will go up and they will be more ready for MGTOW. A male pill will give them tremendous social power and cotrol over themselves and protect the young men from their own natural sex drive.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
tom47 June 21, 2011 at 18:42

“When are the owners of this site going to fuck this lunatic off permanently? I don’t come here to be insulted by a fool.”

At the very least limit him to 300 babbling words or less and maybe one rant per post. Since he only has a few basic rants maybe we could limit him to numbering them like “Rant 1 gentlemen” or” Rant 3 mates”.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 12
Eric June 21, 2011 at 18:46

On the last blog about Tom Ball, I made a point about media suppression, and the same applies here. There’s no need to use force: the MRM is winning without it—the media ignores that as well.

Just consider the overflow of articles penned, even by hard-core feminists, howling over ‘man shortages’ and ‘decline of chivalry’. They’re feeling the ‘pinch’, all right. The only marriage demographic in the US that’s been steadily increasing over the last 30 years is between American men and foreign women, according to the Census Bureau. In contrast, UNESCO reported last month, that American women have the highest rates of out-of-wedlock births in the developed world; and, according to the 2010 census, those numbers are losing ground to foreign-born mothers married to US men.

The media wouldn’t be devoting so much time to shaming MGTOWs, foreign women, and other alternatives if they weren’t well aware of these kinds of social undercurrents. American women are finding themselves increasingly pushed to the margins.

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Eric June 21, 2011 at 18:47

Of course violence should be an absolute last resort. The state hopes that the occasional man will lose it and go on a rampage; it gives them the excuse they need to advance the police state further into everyone’s lives.

But Thomas Ball didn’t go out and kill his ex-wife (or worse, his kids). If it had been any type of victim class of the moment, a rape victim or a homosexual for instance, who immolated themselves on the courthouse steps as a protest of injustice, it would be a week long national news story with constant wonking about the injustices of society that caused the tragedy.

But its not as if we didn’t know that ALL corporate media conglomerates are active participants in the war on men. But what Mr. Ball’s act did demonstrate is that bold, symbolic statements by men that DO NOT include acts of violence against others scares this same media complex bad enough that they run from the story like it was a nuclear bomb.

If it ever gets into the national dialogue, it very well could be.

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Joe June 21, 2011 at 18:47

@oddsock,

I agree with you on men not helping each other. We are all mostly loners. I watched a video, I believe AVFM but I am not sure and the woman talking said that she had a home for abused men and children and that men went into their rooms and shuddered in but she saw that women of course would all get together and cook and take care of each other. The point I am making and the woman was making is that women are much better at organizing for their rights than we are. Men work well together building things or getting jobs done ie. building society but we are terrible at talking about Mens issues. Men are terrible about going to the doctor. I hardly ever go unless the pain is so severe that I cant make it to work. This is something we probably all need to work on. I am just thinking out loud here…..

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Rumplestiltskin June 21, 2011 at 18:47

All you have to do is wait. When this economy collapses under the weight of it’s debt and the government defaults on it’s obligations the living standard will crash. When the fit hits the shan women will line up behind the closest man and behave themselves.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 5
Eric June 21, 2011 at 18:53

Greyghost:
An incident relative to your last post and mine: recently I heard 2 or 3 men, probably in their mid-to-late teens at a bus stop complaining about how every woman they met was either a slut or a bitch. I was going to talk to them about the MRM and asked them if they’d ever been outside the US. Here’s the surprising answer I got from one of them:

“Damn right, I’ve been to Japan a couple of times. And I’m going back ASAP. The only decent girls I ever met were over there. Relationships with American women are pointless—they’re all bitches and they suck. I’m done with them, and waiting for my next trip.”

The other two young men were nodding in full agreement, and suggesting countries they’d like to visit themselves.

Don’t let the media fool you into thinking we’re not winning.

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oddsock June 21, 2011 at 19:45

” Joe

@oddsock,

I agree with you on men not helping each other. We are all mostly loners. I watched a video, I believe AVFM but I am not sure and the woman talking said that she had a home for abused men and children and that men went into their rooms and shuddered in but she saw that women of course would all get together and cook and take care of each other”

Correct Joe but it is changing or to be more exact, men are changing. We are waking up we are saying in increasing numbers ” feck this for a game of cricket ” and GTOW. The Internet and sites such as this are the catylist.

We plant seeds and let them grow in the minds of curious men that come here, or for whatever reason, it doesn’t matter, it is making men ask or start to consider such thoughts as they may have been sold a huge feckin Lemon and there are much better alternatives to being a pack horse wage slave sperm donor and when needed cannon fodder. Its is and always has been a shite deal. We have had our sense of loyalty fairness chivalry expertly played against our own interest for centuries.

Worry ye not, the times they are a changing. We dont need no unified political MRA movement. You are in the middle of it right now and playing an active role. Just keep raising awareness among other men in whatever way you can. Plant the seed.

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Porky D. June 21, 2011 at 19:46

Like it or lump it, eventually there will be blood. It is incredibly rare for real societal change to happen without violence or at the very least the credible threat of violence, and 95% of the time it is the former not the latter that does the heavy lifting. In fact, apart from the Portuguese revolution of 1974 i can’t think of another example where the mere threat was enough. That said the boiling point has yet to be reached, but it’s getting damn hot out there.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3
greyghost June 21, 2011 at 20:03

Rumplestiltskin All you have to do is wait. When this economy collapses under the weight of it’s debt and the government defaults on it’s obligations the living standard will crash. When the fit hits the shan women will line up behind the closest man and behave themselves.
Women don’t know how to do that. I feel they will double and triple down on the misandry. They will more likely get behind the government. The laws of misandry will still be in place. When the SHTF women need to feel it this time. The only relief a woman should get is as a hooker not as a girlfriend or wife. Male pill, game, and MGTOW will leave the women to thier own devices.

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SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 20:04

@ Tom

Culture does work that way, to our benefit. I define culture as a set of unproven beliefs or behaviours that human animals transmit from group to group. We are trying to affect how men behave. To our advantage is that what most men do now doesn’t work and the Femborg is currently assimilating cultures that have no resistance, never needed it, they’re toast.

There was an ad on TV a bazillion years ago, it said, I told one person, who told another, 1 became 2, who told another, 2 to 4, 4 to 16, 16 to … you get the idea.

That’s what we’re doing here. We are starting ideas. That they’re spreading is evidenced in a few conversations, then creative types start making movies, they’re always looking for new ideas.

New ideas are hard to come by. We’re still using relationship analogies from 5K years ago…Odepus complex…who knows if it’s true, doesn’t matter.

The Femborg, the Powers That Be ™, this is how femism works. Gender, diversity, The Good Man Project, all fictions.

We just need persistance and to tell the bald truth, a revolutionary act, many have been killed for it, look at the Bolshiveks, they always kill the thinkers first. The reason is what I said above.

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Jean Valjean June 21, 2011 at 20:06

I think we should all write to the Republicans and demand they default on U.S. debt.

That will surely hasten the end of the U.S. economy and stature around the world.

(yes I’m from the U.S.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
F.M.R June 21, 2011 at 20:08

I find it interesting when people advocate violence in the MRM.

How effective do you think that will be? the american revolution was a shining star in a sea of failed revolutions. A miracle that wont happen twice. In particular, the plight of spartan slaves comes to mind. In sparta, if you were not a spartan, and you lived in sparta, and you werent nobility of some other country, you were a slave. You were treated as less than human, even less than a living creature. The spartan coming of age ceremony involved killing a slave so one could become used to ending life.

Obviously, there were far fewer spartans than slaves, because spartan training was rigorous and many died in training, or if they did survive, soon after on the battlefield. The number of slaves could outnumber the number of recognized citizens by as much as 15 to 1. And yet the most successful slave rebellion lasted 2 days.

These slaves certainly had plenty of grievances. And they even had numbers on their side, something we lack. It didnt help them, and it wont help us. Add to this that we as humans are now powerful enough to kill hundreds of people from an air-conditioned room several hundred miles away, and the idea of “rebellion” or use of force is laughable.

All you do by mentioning it is tarnish what little hope we have of gaining true equality by legal means. I bet our friends at manboobz are positively drooling with anticipation at the comment section on this one.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6
Simon June 21, 2011 at 20:12

Completely off topic. Blacks speaking out on how femnism is ruining black women’s love life. The article comes close, but no cigar. The comment section is entertaining.

http://madamenoire.com/57269/how-feminism-is-ruining-your-love-life/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
SingleDad June 21, 2011 at 20:39

And how come a nation of women who control the largest military the world has ever seen is afraid of one word?

Spear-Head

Sorry, two words…lol.

Humor is a more potent weapon than napalm against the dour Femborg.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
3DShooter June 21, 2011 at 20:43

I agree with anon69, the grievances have been presented for decades and the oppression has only worsened. The state knows only force and will only respond to it. It may seem like an insurmountable task, but if third world afghans in mud huts can rise to the challenge for a decade – we would hopefully do as well.

To that end here’s the comment that I shared in writing with my attorney last year: “these laws have to change and if you won’t fight them, then if it takes lynching few attorneys and judges to change them, I’m ok with that. And don’t get your panties in a bunch over the language [it was a he, so the slight was intended], I use it when writing to my senators and congressmen as well”.

If violence is to be had take it to the actual perps first – the attorneys and judges.

@Welmer, good to see you asked the question. Maybe you’re getting the whole libertarian thing after all. I also had to come to grips with whether taking action violates the non aggression principle. In the end I recognized that family law practitioners are predators of the worst sort and they have been and continue to dispense violence on a daily basis. Acts against them are self-defense of one’s life, liberty and property.

And what couple whack-jobs would thumb down the Declaration of Independence. Must be jack-booted femi-narcissist trolls.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
gender foreigner June 21, 2011 at 21:22

Dear Eric June 21, 2011 at 18:46:

Good points. Thanks for your insight.

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Rebel June 21, 2011 at 21:34

@ greyghost June 21, 2011 at 20:03
Rumplestiltskin All you have to do is wait. When this economy collapses under the weight of it’s debt and the government defaults on it’s obligations the living standard will crash. When the fit hits the shan women will line up behind the closest man and behave themselves.”

There will be no need for violence. Things will get tougher by themselves.
Violence will erupt just about everywhere.

Feminism is not the only threat. Think of these:

1-The fukushima meltdown (I almost said fuck you shima..)
2-Looming war in the Middle-East and a possible expansion to WWIII
3-Decreasing fertility
4-The oceans dying out.
5-Peak oil. (It WILL happen some day)
6-Climate change and famine.
7-Extinction of species.
8-Decaying civilization
9-Decreasing lifespan.
10-Financial collapse.

And I may even be missing some..

There will be no need for violence: it will come by itself. Just prepare for it.

I think that men should take whatever time there is left before SHTF real bad: to find a safe place to live and do the best you can to become as self-sufficient as possible.

There is trouble ahead, friends.
Going our own way is the way to go. No need to try to get even with anyone: feck them all! Leave them to their own designs.

There are excellent sites that talk about survivalism: now is the time to really get to know more about that.

Women must be left behind if they are unwilling to follow: men must march forward and out of this morass. Leave the shit behind where it belongs.

Without men’s involvement, this society doesn’t stand a chance to survive.
All we have to do is to starve the beast and allow it time to die.

As they surely say in England: (Oddsock?) We are not the ones holding the shitty end of the stick!

Also: we need everyone’s opinion: shutting up one or two participants is not the way to go. Let freedom of speech dominate this debate.
Please.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6
John Boy June 21, 2011 at 22:26

We will see changes in the alimony laws, custody laws, and child support laws when the state begins using its force EQUALLY to deal with women as harshly as it does men. Once that occurs the feminist won’t be so keen on punitive measures.

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Sewicydel June 21, 2011 at 22:27

“keyster June 21, 2011 at 12:11
If hardcore liberals proclaim the only way to stop terrorism is to address the Muslim grievances that cause it in the first place, it could be construed as an effective strategy.

What Thomas Ball proved was setting yourself on fire doesn’t work. The only thing men and fathers need to be heard, is more of us yelling louder and never shutting up. The oppressive male is already a villian, so acting upon it only serves to validate what we already know to be true.

So you bombard them with stoic logic, reason and facts and eventually they have to surrender, because the corner they’ve painted themselves into becomes a very small and lonely place.”

No offence intended but you can not argue logic with crazy, been trying this for years. They rationalize you as wrong even if facts support your case.

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universe June 21, 2011 at 22:33

Apparantly almost everyone knows or has heard about some man forced through the genetic and money wringer known as family court. Msmedia appears to regard the daily theft subjected upon divorced men as to be so commonplace that attention to the numbers and consequences of those involved bears little mention. Nothing wrong at all. No story here. Our feminist sisters said so. Ho-hum.
Yet, should frequent and isolated violence erupt resulting from individual men being painted too far into a state ordered corner be certain that media will be there in ambulance chasing mode. They’ll likely go for the jugular and want to bring down one isolated man at a time. That will lead to more negative mass consciousness manipulation on how bad men are.
Depending on how well the mrm is able to highlight the downside of men’s aftercourt experiences it’s difficult to say whose blood media will be after.

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Demonspawn June 21, 2011 at 22:49

LaughOrCry-

Why does it always come down to those three options? Because the MRM is politically dead in the water. It comes down to a number of points, but it mostly comes down to the fundamental truth of biology: women are the limiting factor in reproductive potential in a human culture and as such (and the millions of years of tradition and genetics based upon that fact) men are seen as more disposable than women.

Men who ask for help are seen as weak non-providers and women don’t want them. When men’s rights are violated people just don’t care as much. Even in the case of this man who set himself on fire, because he’s a man people will look at the one thing he did wrong and use that as a reason to dismiss him while in a gender-swapped situation they would find the one thing a woman did right, even if she did everything else wrong, and use that as the reason to support her. These reasons and the female majority in population guarantees that women’s rights is win/win (women get more rights/freedom while politicians in support get reelected) while men’s rights is lose/lose (women don’t want more responsibility/lesser advantage while politicians in support get replaced next election).

When the truth comes down, the fact is that ALL cultures treat the average woman better than the average man. The only question has been to what degree.

As for the collapse, I personally think it’s coming sooner and sooner. I used to think it was 50 years off, but lately I see it happening in 10 to 15 years. Our government has simply gotten way too top heavy and our men are dropping out of crushing themselves at their jobs. Beyond that, our ratio of private to public workers is way too high. Our public debt is out of control, and our masses don’t want to give up the bread and circus.

And I’m not looking forward to it at all, it’s just that I’m way too damn stubborn to flee. It’s not going to be pretty. Economic collapses are nastier than events… a good percentage of the population still dies off, it just takes them a year or so to do that while they’re trying to kill you for your food. And when the US dollar collapses there won’t be many other major powers out there able to render aid as they’ll be reeling from the collapse of the denomination upon which international trade is currently backed… it will cause the whole world a lot of problems.

Now, if you want to work on a political approach, more power to you. But the problem is that equality is an impossibility, attempting to achieve equality is what is causing the collapse, and the masses won’t admit that traditional gender roles really were/are the answer until it’s too late to solve the problem by switching back.

Ok.. what I really mean to say is feel free to make efforts to a political solution, but I highly suggest you have already accomplished the necessary means for one of the three realistic answers first.

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georgiaboy61 June 21, 2011 at 23:04

3DShooter, re: “I agree with anon69, the grievances have been presented for decades and the oppression has only worsened. The state knows only force and will only respond to it.” Advocates of big govt. and of expanding the power of the state have long-known that independent, free people do not need, nor do they want a nanny state. Moreover, the state has always feared men unwilling to be pushed around – men willing to defend their rights rather than be enslaved. The Founders were such men. Therefore, to “take violence off the table” as a means of political change, proponents of big govt. had to destroy traditional manhood. Feminism has been a very effective tool in their toolbox, because women are much less likely to resort to violence as a means of resolving irreconcilable conflicts. Ergo, if government is reasonably certain that its encroachment upon our liberties will be weakly or unopposed, they can go forward with their plans. A bully – and our leviathan of a government is nothing if not a bully – continues doing what he does until someone gets the gumption to break his nose. The question for our nation is this: are there enough real men left in America to finally “break the bully’s nose”? A last point to ponder: removing physical violence from the equation doesn’t result in peace, it results in a different kind of conflict. A century ago, if a gentleman’s lady was insulted, he invited the offender to fight in the alley, and things were settled in that manner. Today, the same two men still fight, only they use lawyers and the authorities are surrogates.
Which system is better? This writer prefers the former, because at least an individual could defend himself and his family reasonably well. Under today’s system, only the rich and powerful really get any justice.

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georgiaboy61 June 21, 2011 at 23:14

Rumplestiltskin, you may have a point…re: “All you have to do is wait. When this economy collapses under the weight of it’s debt and the government defaults on it’s obligations the living standard will crash. When the fit hits the shan women will line up behind the closest man and behave themselves.”

Feminism and women’s rights (so-called) are products of the advanced state our economy and culture have attained over the centuries… thanks largely (wait for it) the contributions of men! All those inventors, engineers, tradesmen, craftsmen, factory workers, farmers, etc. that built America? Some were women, but most were men – tough, hard, smart and strong men.
Sorry ladies, but it wasn’t women that put us on the moon. Anything that exposes the thin veneer of civilization for what it is, and reprimitivizes us also resets the relationship between men and women. Don’t necessarily want an outbreak of WWIII or the collapse of our society, but if these things happen and are beyond our control, at least there will be a silver lining to the dark cloud – the end of feminism.

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Seamus The Classicist June 21, 2011 at 23:57

@F.M.R.

You are wrong. Spartan society had three classes, the Citizens (i.e. the Army of Equals,) Helots (conquered slaves,) and Perioikai (those who lived outside the city and made their living at a trade.) The Helots were purely farm labor, any skilled labor or craftsmanship was done by the Perioikai who were relatively free if uninvolved in Sparta’s political process. Also the Helots were not monolithic, the Lacedemonia Helots were utter submissive to Sparta, the Messinian Helots were always rebeling and fighting because they were a free people that were conquered by the Spartans.

The Sparta of 300 was a brief epoch, a Sparta at the hight of it’s power, and it wasn’t but a generation or two that started to see Sparta’s decline, due to slowing of their population growth (when all the men live in the barracks and the women are running things people tend not to reproduce,) and tactical innovations by other Greek City States (the Spartans were married to the Hoplite formation, the Thebans and Athenians started to develop infantry tactics that were more flexible and could counter Spartan Hoplite Monolith.)

I mention all these because it is prescient to our situation, yes the U.S. government can kill people thousands of miles away from an air conditioned room. But the men who press buttons don’t self-subsist in those air-conditioned rooms. One of the things I have learned growing up in the shadows (so to speak) is how to be a Chameleon (as much as is possible, obviously as a physical built man I cannot pull of the artsy fartsy emo skinny dude look,) we are the invisible males. Use it to your advantage.

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Avenger June 22, 2011 at 00:22

Imagine a patient who goes to a doctor and tells him what he is suffering from. The doctor says, “Very well, I’ve understood your symptoms

OK a little humour here and this is true. A female patient was complaining about “nerves” and tension because of the kids and told the doctor she needed something for the kids. The doctor gave her some valium for her nerves but she was actually giving it to the kids. I guess he never figured anyone would be so dumb. Perhaps they should teach femspeech in med school and how to interpret it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
LaughOrCry June 22, 2011 at 00:55

Demonspawn – “…the MRM is politically dead in the water.”

Too darn right; the MRM most definitely has a “branding issue” and faces considerable “consumer resistance”, as it were – that’s why I suggested a more systemic approach.

Perhaps instead of trying to change existing society or waiting for it to collapse, people might start to withdraw from society and set up on their own Amish-style. I haven’t looked into Transition Towns in any detail; they’re based around self-sufficiency and no doubt they’re bastions of ultra-liberal greenie pseudo-communism but it’s the kind of thing that might become popular. The only problem of course is that it’s a kind of grass-roots secession, and gubmints generally don’t like people withdrawing from society in – or more accurately, they don’t like people withdrawing their taxes and spending power from society.

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E June 22, 2011 at 01:49

Rebel says:
“I think that men should take whatever time there is left before SHTF real bad: to find a safe place to live and do the best you can to become as self-sufficient as possible.

There is trouble ahead, friends.
Going our own way is the way to go. No need to try to get even with anyone: feck them all! Leave them to their own designs.”

Bingo…I agree.
Despite all the problems of today, our society still has some surplus economic wealth that can be tapped into. It would be wise to continue milking this economic cow (while the chance is still there). Western civilization has only maybe 25 years of economic momentum left before we all end up broke like Greece and the rest of the “PIGS”.

Enjoy the collapse.
I’ll be living in my “doom stead” quite comfortably with a well stocked nest egg.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3
oddsock June 22, 2011 at 02:16

Seamus The Classicist

@F.M.R.

You are wrong. Spartan society had three classes, the Citizens (i.e. the Army of Equals,) Helots (conquered slaves,) and Perioikai (those who lived outside the city and made their living at a trade.)

Ahh, but did they have inflatable sheep ? See, not quite a civilized as we thought !

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
dragnet June 22, 2011 at 04:17

You have got to be fucking kidding me. I wonder where all these tough guys are who would finally respond to tyranny with the sword? These same guys who are talking a tough game about blowing shit up, didn’t do a goddamn thing when the Wall Streeters motherfucked up the economy, made off with 90% of their 401Ks with a trillion in bailout cash, to boot. Instead, they bent over and took it right up the pooper—just like every other fake-ass live-free-or-die poseur from sea to shining sea.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 8
Opus June 22, 2011 at 04:30

Force tends to be justified by its success.

I recall Leo Tolstoy being asked (after some Terrorist Attrocity in Tsarist Russia) whether he would condemn the actions of the terrorists. He, being a Pacifist, was happy to do so, but pointed out that the violence used by The State was on an infinitely larger scale; for The State had its Police, Courts, Prisons, Executions, Soldiers and Guns.

I, of course, regard your so-called Declaration of Independence (@ Chris) as self-serving hog-wash.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 8
Max June 22, 2011 at 05:32

For those stating that “lists of grievances have been presented LITERALLY millions of times”, I disagree. I don’t see on this site, AVfM, or FRS a single, clear, concise document that spells out the top 5, 10, or 25 points. I’ve seen many mentioned in articles and comments, I’ve seen thousands of anecdotes and stories of personal experience.

To state that “we” as a movement have made a concerted effort at non-violent change takes some agreement on the basic issues, statistics to support the issues, and personal experiences to bring them to life. And individuals willing to do more than just bang out their frustration on the keyboard, they need to engage their politicians at a local and national level, presenting the concerns.

If people have been doing this, my apologies. I’m relatively new to this space and haven’t been touched personally. I’ve been looking for a way to pass on the message to other friends – a statement of purpose, something beyond pointing to “The Misandry Bubble” that says we have a real problem here. Again, no disrespect to those who have been fighting their own battles and falling on deaf ears. As a movement, I don’t see an organized plan of attack. I do see a few sites (Fathers and Families) working with politicians to discuss, change, and promote legislation regarding family law (yes it is incremental change, but it’s a start). I’d love to see a bigger list here, and would be willing to do so research to pull numbers. Thomas Ball tried to get stats on DV and made some progress. Take that as an example – even with the limited number of readers here, there are enough to find the facts and put together a position statement. Take Ball’s work, and move it forward.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 06:17

Does it get any more hateful than this? From David Cameron no less.

“At the same time, I also think we need to make Britain a genuinely hostile place for fathers who go AWOL. It’s high time runaway dads were stigmatised, and the full force of shame was heaped upon them. They should be looked at like drink drivers, people who are beyond the pale. They need the message rammed home to them, from every part of our culture, that what they’re doing is wrong – that leaving single mothers, who do a heroic job against all odds, to fend for themselves simply isn’t acceptable.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8584238/David-Cameron-Dads-gift-to-me-was-his-optimism.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 06:20

worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9bh6WWoL0

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Ken June 22, 2011 at 06:28

Here’s one that says it all….a little boy risking life and limb just to see his Dad far away.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/22/7-year-old-driving-50-mph-just-wanted-to-see-his-dad/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 06:47

WELL worth the read if you are into the details…here is David Rockefeller telling you in his own words that he is working with others to produce a one world government.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25302

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 06:53

Simon June 21, 2011 at 20:12

From the article you linked.

“Much of the abrasiveness, attitude and other testosterone-driven antics that run good men away are products of feminism gone wrong.”

This is how dumb women are. This is totally incorrect. The ‘attitude’ is the INTENDED outcome of feminism. Women. Dumb as rocks. Still will not listen to the fact they have been the victims of the Illuminati and used as ‘useful idiots’.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
Young India June 22, 2011 at 07:11

Solution:
Stop marrying. Use contraceptives to your damn advantage. Don’t fall for “baby, I love you’. Ever.

You have the gift of words, all you people here, the writer and the ‘commenters’. NOT all men do. They suffer and then they break out.
And men like Tom Ball, broke out despite their reasoning abilities.

When you are handcuffed, beaten in your home, threatened by dogs, not allowed to see your children… and all this lasts for long time, then this is violence. Violence perpetrated by women and their beta males.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Augenblick June 22, 2011 at 07:12

How empowering women fights the climate change

Not content to make a fool of himself confusing weather and climate, Al has now decided to lecture empower women on how to reduce the population for the benefit of the planet. Watch the video below, now we know why he doesn’t allow recordings of his lectures. Darn those Flip Video Cameras.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Al_Gore_branches_out_into_population_control_theory_/14376/0/0/0/Y/M.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
SingleDad June 22, 2011 at 07:24

Warning, this is not an endorsement of any party, they all suck @ss and can kiss my panduckas.

Al Gore, definition:

Mouth piece of brand A. of The Powers That Be ™

If you want to know what that propaganda brand of the powers that be want us to start spreading listen to fat Albert.

They almost made him president, spokesman in chief.

In order for brand B. to get market share they had appeal to the wimmenz so they ran an out of control, recently reformed, coke addict, Mel Gibson was on a project already and you can’t elect Austrian’s, and there was that rum running wife, so they took B jr, IMO.

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Lovekraft June 22, 2011 at 07:25

The Mens Rights Movement List of Participants (as observed by this white, 42 year old libertarian-0f-sorts).

1. Pioneers

mens rights activists in the purest sense of the word. Actively spreading the message about misandry. Taking the fight to the feminists/progressives.
On the internet, there’s a good dozen or so of these. In society, they’re much harder to find. But they’re there.

2. Supporting Troops.

MRAs who have been victims of the many faces of feminism’s vile reaches. In family courts, academia, the workplace etc, these men have bravely weathered the emotional, financial and physical attacks by femhags and their white knight enforcers. A vast resource of activist-in-waiting.

3. The Sleeping

the main majority of men who have grown irritated at the ‘condition of things’ and who are slowly casting away the veil of MSM feminist-influenced culture. Haven’t yet taken the red pill, but are certainly averse to any more of the blue one. Another vast resource and where the main battle of ideas between MRA and feminazis is taking place.

4. Infiltrators/Double-Agents/Dipshits

we all know them, we watch with amusement as they try to direct the MRM to inanity or outright barbarism (think Sharia and other nuts). Best use for them would be to put right in the front to bear the brunt of the attacks.

that is all.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 07:32

Chevy Chase June 21, 2011 at 17:45
“Peter, you are truly fucking insane. How long, mods, to you think it will be before this site is shut down because Nolan is PUBLICLY advocating and inciting violence against family court judges?”

Chevy. I am not inciting violence against anyone who is a law abiding person. If someone tries to rob me, as happened in Bucharest, I reserve the right to defend my life and my property with force up to and including deadly force. If you have a problem with that? So what? I don’t listen to idiots like you. Nor is any man well advised to listen to idiots like you telling lies.

And by the way? Your GUVMENT is inciting violence by committing crimes. Your guvment is also bombing the shit out of innocent Libyans as I type. Why don’t you take up the case of inciting violence with your GUVMENT and not me, eh?

To make it clear. I have made a claim of right that I have the right to protect myself and my rights and to protect the well being of all those who are placed in my care by my creator. If you wish to dispute that claim please go ahead. The queen accepted it and that is good enough for me.

A man who was ACTING as a judge who is found guilty of criminal acts and who refuses to make the remedy instructed by the jury is NO LONGER A JUDGE. He is just an ordinary Joe Smoe. If you are so stupid as to think that a man has no right to defend his life, liberty and property? Then you are welcome to your slavery.

“We don’t refer to each other as “cowards” and “more stupid than my dog”.”

No. You don’t. And maybe you are well advised to be honest to men rather than to ‘moderate’ your girly statements into lies like ‘we are all equal around here’. When men do not stand up and act like men? When men are cowards? Then it works to say so. If the man is not a coward he will provide the evidence he is not. If he is a coward he will be all ‘hurt’ that he has been called a coward because he knows it to be true.

“I don’t come here to be insulted by a fool.”

You can only be ‘insulted’ if you know what was said is true. Be it by a fool or someone very intelligent like myself.. ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 08:10

greyghost June 21, 2011 at 18:23
“That was one wild ass post. All I can say is men need a stranger on a train site. You tell your story and I tell mine. Names addresses and photographs. And some kind gentleman will read the interesting stories and just pick one and take of business. “

Women have sites like ‘dnotdatehimgirl’ in which they release names, addresses, photos etc. There is no requirement for the women to be honest and there is no punishment for them if they are dishonest. No-one complains about it. Hhhmmm.

CAF is a GLOBAL resource open to any man who wishes to publish evidence of crimes so long as he does so under penalty of perjury. Men who lie on CAF will be held accountable for perjury. All materials on CAF will be held under the common law right of freedom of speech that I have claimed and has been accepted by the Queen. No guvment on earth has the right to remove anything from CAF. Any person who does will be accused of the crime of perversion of the course of justice.

All men who register to CAF are making oath they will sit on juries when called to provide the protection of the law to a man who makes an accusation of a crime under oath and penalty of perjury. The 12 man jury will deliberate the evidence at hand. It is the responsibility of the accuser to present enough evidence to gain a unanimous verdict of guilty. I would prefer that it not be required to be public. But I think we all know that the guvments are criminals and there is no justice in our courts.

Should the accuser fail to gain a guilty verdict he must pay for the jury, court, and compensate the accused for the time and effort to defend him/herself. The accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty and all inconvenience of the accused party must be compensated if he/she is found innocent.

This places a GREAT burden on the accuser. The accuser has to do his homework and make sure his case is water tight. The secretary of the court will not allow any court to be convened unless the evidence is compelling and VERY likely to result in a guilty verdict. The secretary of the court is the SOLE ARBITER of a case going ahead based on his experience.

This is why the procedure manual recommends the approach of a default judgement should the accused refuse to rebut the accusation under oath. The default judgment can be one of guilty and then the jury does NOT need to consider whether the accused is guilty. The accused admitted guilt by non-response. The jury may review the evidence presented by the accuser to satisfy themselves that all efforts were made to settle the crime outside the jury trial and that the accused has refused all such efforts.

The accused will be required to provide rebuttal of accusation prior to the jury trial. A non rebuttal to an accusation presumes guilt. The jury is the FINAL arbiter of the innocence or guilt and the FINAL arbiter of the Remedy Instruction. The Remedy Instruction is required to be unanimous as well.

Should the guilty party refuse to make the remedy that the 12 man jury has agreed is fair and just and required to fix the situation nearly as can be plus penalty for the crime and penalty for the perjury the accused must have committed? Then the jury has the ability to withdraw the PROTECTION OF THE LAW from the accused who will then become an outlaw. Once at outlaw status the outlaw has NO LAWFUL STANDING. He does NOT have ‘human rights’. He waived them. It is not possible to commit crimes against an outlaw.

You Americans had your president climb on a pile of rubble and say “we had a sign out in the west…dead or alive.” You Americans just celebrated in the street the staged murder of a long dead man who never received a jury trial and who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. You Americans and British (and many Australians) have supported the unlawful and illegal war in Iraq. So don’t give me any bullshit about how running lawful jury trials and outlawing an unrepentant criminal is a ‘problem’ for you. Because I will reflect back the hypocrisy of that statement.

Now. Any and all documents a man wishes to be posted to CAF that supports his case against a criminal he will be welcome to post. He does so under oath that he is telling the truth. CAF is a vehicle for exposing crimes and gaining remedy for fathers who have had crimes committed against them. Period. Nothing else. It will NOT become a ‘chat-fest’.

The rule of law is expressed via a jury trial. If men refuse to do their duty and create those juries then they are agreeing to live in a lawless society. Men like me who are NOT cowards? We know full well how to live in a lawless society. As far as I am concerned Ireland and Australia are currently lawless societies. I have proven this to be the case. The USSA, USSK, KAN-AH-DUH are all lawless societies. And begging criminals to protect you is stupid in the extreme. Plenty of men here have pointed out that the Police are not there to protect you any more. And when the guvment is oppressing you? You either protect yourself or bend over and do not expect lube.

Now. What any man does with what is posted to CAF? That is his business. Period. Just like what women do with what is posted to ‘dontdatehimgirl’ is her business.

If men decide of their OWN VOLITION that ‘stranger on a train’ is easier?

NOT MY PROBLEM.

From DAY ONE of my efforts in June 2008 I have promoted FAIR LAWS. I later came across the founding document of English Law being the Magna Carta and from then I have supported JURY TRIALS and THE RULE OF LAW as set out in the Magna Carta and practiced for a period of about 800 years in the English Speaking World.

One might wonder why it was that I could study English History in School and NEVER be told about the MAGNA CARTA. I must have read about it as a small child but I never recall being told in History class about it or that it is the founding law of Australia.

It is only liars like Chevy Chase who try and twist my position into ‘inciting violence against judges’. No outlaw can be a judge. He can only be a FORMER judge who has waived his right to the protection of the law and waived all his human rights.

Now. Men are going to create courts or you are going to have civil wars. Because your guvments are not going to let up on you any time soon.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8
namae nanka June 22, 2011 at 08:16

“Feminism and women’s rights (so-called) are products of the advanced state our economy and culture have attained over the centuries… thanks largely (wait for it) the contributions of men! All those inventors, engineers, tradesmen, craftsmen, factory workers, farmers, etc. that built America? Some were women, but most were men – tough, hard, smart and strong men.”

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”
- Issac Newton

“Men are the new ball and chain.”
-Hannah Rosin

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Mikediver June 22, 2011 at 08:50

For those agitating for a male pill here is an option. When suffering from low T (a common event after 40) I was prescribed a testosterone shot. It also comes in a Tran dermal patch. One side effect is that as the shot/patch replaces testosterone the pituitary decides that production of testosterone is not needed. As production of testosterone decreases the Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) is also suppressed. With out FSH no sperm is produced. So we have a Tran dermal patch that will act as a male pill.

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Demonspawn June 22, 2011 at 09:00

LaughOrCry-

“Perhaps instead of trying to change existing society or waiting for it to collapse, people might start to withdraw from society and set up on their own Amish-style. I haven’t looked into Transition Towns in any detail; they’re based around self-sufficiency [...]”

That is option #3. If it gets large enough to secede, it becomes option #1.

As an FYI, I would strongly suggest “prepper” communities rather than transition towns (both are very focused on self-sufficiency, it’s just that the former believes in being self-sufficient in self-protection as well).

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Jean Valjean June 22, 2011 at 09:05

Damn right, I’ve been to Japan a couple of times. And I’m going back ASAP. The only decent girls I ever met were over there. Relationships with American women are pointless—they’re all bitches and they suck. I’m done with them, and waiting for my next trip.

I don’t care where you meet a woman or who she is, if you bring her back here the same laws will apply. It is rare for a woman to be fair in divorce.

And most of these overseas relationship are inherently exploitative. It involves her freely spending your money in return for her affection. If a woman will exploit you financially at a time when she likes you the most then what do you think she’ll do when she hates you and is divorcing you?

Women don’t love men. They exploit us and as long as we allow them to exploit us and we keep them in the status they feel they deserve (because they exist not because they earned it) then they may choose to stay with us. When they decide that cashing out is a better deal they do that. Either way you will be used and exploited and get little in return.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 2
Lovekraft June 22, 2011 at 09:07

re Chevy and Nolan:

On the one hand, I agree with Chevy that we must be careful not to open ourselves up to censorship. This is what the feminists want. So, Peter, choose your words carefully when entering into this territory.

On the other hand, I agree with Peter that this wasn’t a fight we asked for, but one which was foisted upon us. Most men would wish to live a simple life, make a decent living etc. But the sheer depravity of feminism requires MRAs to have thick skins and abandon any hope that appeasement will make the feminists and their accomplices consider our positions.

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Rebel June 22, 2011 at 09:20

@P.A.N.
“Dumb as rocks. Still will not listen to the fact they have been the victims of the Illuminati and used as ‘useful idiots’.”

No amount of reasoning will ever be able to make women open up their eyes. Their conditioning and programming has been so perfect that it has become quite impossible to yank them off their induced hypnosis.
They have been told that they are goddesses and they… they believe it!

They have also been told that all men are scum, that their lives are in real danger in the presence of a male and…. they believe it.

The term “useful idiot” is a strike of genius because that’s really what they are.
The government and those in high power have appropriated the entire female gender. Women are no longer what they were. Is that better or worse? Honestly, I don’t know and I don’t care anymore.

But the fact remains that talking to a woman about the situation is as useless as trying to drink the Pacific ocean.
The women are lost to us. It is even questionable to state that they might be of the same species anymore.
Maybe it’s true that men and women are from different planets: at least right now.

Maybe we would gain by considering women as pets and nothing more.
And even at that, a pet is an animal you can trust, to an extent, can’t even said that much about women.

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Newfoundman June 22, 2011 at 09:29

Whatever force is entailed, self-force (suicide) is mental illness. Life’s purpose is to survive. True, the man’s circumstances probably drove him to mental illness, but I will never advocate, or even tolerate, suicide as noble or an answer to anything.

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oddsock June 22, 2011 at 09:59

namae nanka

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”
- Issac Newton

“Men are the new ball and chain.”
-Hannah Rosin

Man walking sideways through turnstile going to Bangkok
Confucious

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 10:07

Lovekraft June 22, 2011 at 09:07

Correct. Appeasement will not work. I have promoted discussion and promoted fair laws since June 2008. The Australian guvment has left no stone unturned to suppress that discussion. I have been censored on the Sydney Morning Herald blogs. Sam de Britto, traitor that he is, banned me from a MENS forum because the WOMEN were upset. About 50% of all posts to Sam Bretts blog were censored. Women were allowed to post slanderous lies about me (a violation of their OWN RULES) while my rebuttals to these lies were censored.

My youtube channel has been blocked into Australia. ASIO set up a hate site. ‘Illuminati Ingrid’ has attempted to damage my business relationships. Yet idiots here still say ‘He must be a troll’? Does the video evidence of the crimes of David Dunkley look like something that was made up? FFS?

I have sent lawful notices to ALL federal and NSW state politicians, all police, the High court, the head of the family court. We have sent evidence that ASIO is suppressing evidence in the alleged murder of Gary Kelso to Julia Gillard. The man who is breaking that story has had his life threatened. The criminals in the police refuse to investigate those who threatened his life. We have had members of our team kidnapped on a regular basis, even elderly men. Some of our team have also been tortured in custody. The evidence of this torture in custody has been presented to Julia Gillard on a lawful notice. We have had one of our number incarcerated many times over the last 12 years. His name is John Wilson.

So. WHO EXACTLY IS INCITING VIOLENCE?

Might it be the people committing crimes, incarcerating people, torturing people, stealing from men, stealing their children, stealing their houses and then suppressing any and all peaceful avenues to remedy? Might not it actually be the GUVMENT that is trying to drive men to violence so that they can further demonise men and further oppress them? Duh?

I invite men to read over my lawful notices again. Link below. Notice how I am proposing PEACEFUL COURTS. And notice that NO AUSTRALIAN POLICITICAN has got the guts to respond to me. NOT ONE. They are ALL criminal bastards and gutless wonders. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

I am actually the man trying to AVOID requiring the use of force by asking men to DO THEIR DUTY! Those who refuse to join our courts? YOU are promoting men killing people because YOU are refusing to give men a peaceful course to justice. Just like Tom Ball there are hundreds of thousands of men out there who have been severely abused and YOU MEN are refusing them a path to justice. I am not.

YOU…NOT ME.

Now. What the f*** is WRONG WITH YOU MEN HERE? Are you so retarded and so stupid that you do not know that a jury trial is the BEST MECHANISM KNOWN TO MAN by which the rule of law is maintained? Please. Let some man here tell me whether he has never heard of a jury trial and never been told that it seems to have been the best mechanism for establishing guilt of a crime that we know of. What else do you men suggest? A wigi board?

I truly do not comprehend the level of STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE in this place. I have been VERY PATIENT. I have for more than 18 months posted here. But get a grip gentlemen. I would not have believed it if I did not see it for myself. I am proposing JURY TRIALS. They are NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

How ANY MAN can be so gutless as to not be willing to sit on a jury and give another man the opportunity to present his case is BEYOND ME. I DO NOT GET IT. Yet? That’s what most men here are. The evidence is NOT refutable because you are virtually ALL refusing my call to create CAF sites all around the world (that I will pay for) and run lawful courts and juries. You have refused this call for a LONG TIME NOW. And NOT ONE MAN has raised any relevant objection to doing this. NOT ONE!!

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU MEN? Really. There must be something seriously, seriously WRONG with any man who is so gutless he’s not prepared to sit in an air conditioned room on a jury. Your forefathers STORMED THE BEACHES AT NORMANDY FFS! Yet you can’t sit on a jury when asked? How f***ing pathetic is that? You reckon those guys in boats going to Normandy would not have taken a seat on a jury in preference?

I’d really like some men here to tell me WTF is WRONG with them that even when you are presented with EVERYTHING YOU NEED you refuse to defend yourselves against criminals because you have been told you shouldn’t.

Is it “Ohhh, the big bad guvment might hurt me”?

Yes. The men in the guvment are going to hurt you if you speak out. SO WHAT? They are going to TRY AND KILL YOU a little later on if they can. It’s like the old saying. “What has to happen before you are willing to defend yourselves”? And remember. Many jews walked themselves into the so called gas chambers. In many mass killings the men walk like docile sheep to the edge of the mass grave to have a bullet put in the back of their heads. THAT’S what cowards look like. They NEVER FIGHT BACK. They go to their death NEVER HAVING FOUGHT BACK. And MRAs/MRMs, are, in the vast majority, cowards because they are not willing to fight back and defend the next generation. They are full of shit like ‘tell the young men marriage is a trap’ when what they COULD be doing is running courts and taking the children off mothers and giving the child back to fathers.

There is NOTHING stopping men from taking children off criminal women and handing them back to fathers except men are gutless cowards. Their cowardice is the ONLY thing stopping them. The bullshit “you must not incite violence” when the state is KILLING SCORES of men like Tom Ball and beating the shit out of thousands more? Give me a break.

This topic is asking the question. How does a population resist the oppression of a criminal government. The answer is actually very simple.
1. Lawful Courts.
2. Small groups of men acting in isolation and willing to act against those who have chosen to defy the remedy instruction issued by the jury in a lawful and just court.

After that? You have civil war as your next option. I’ve given you men everything you need to know. I’ve pointed out we are well down the track of this in Australia and the UK. Yet you men STILL just talk among yourselves congratulating yourself on using big words when you are still so ignorant you have not learned the difference between a statute and a law.

Idiots like Chevey Chase say “I don’t like being insulted”?
Well? Don’t be stupid. Then you won’t be insulted!

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/97/scope/threads/Default.aspx

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 10:16

Newfoundman June 22, 2011 at 09:29
” but I will never advocate, or even tolerate, suicide as noble or an answer to anything.”

Spoken like a man who has never been suicidal. I do tire of men making statements on topics they know nothing about. But ignorance no longer seems to be any barrier to men saying things. It was when I was a kid. When I was a kid I was told if you don’t know something well then ask a question. You might learn something.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 10:18

Mikediver June 22, 2011 at 08:50

One word. Vasectomy.

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TFH June 22, 2011 at 14:26

Before we talk about violence, it is reasonable to at least expect men to post flyers in high-visibility, strategic locations.

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TFH June 22, 2011 at 14:27

Anonymous Age 69,

Could you list for us the various types of activism that was done by your generation in the 80s and 90s, and the reason why it did not work?

Thanks.

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Anonymous June 22, 2011 at 15:13

PAN,

I heard the comments by Cameron. We need to counter that by treating “deadbeat dads” as heros or people to be protected. They are victims of th system I can’t imagine that any guy would actually leave his kids in need and its pretty obvious that these guys either can’t pay or that the amounts are just grossly unfair.

As men, we need to protect our brothers until we can defeat this shit.

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Chevy Chase June 22, 2011 at 20:42

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 22, 2011 at 07:32

There would only be 3 reasons why you would instruct how to kill a judge and get away with it on a public forum (I’m not even going to comment on all that insanity you preached in a previous post about how to shoot up a girls school and how to poison the air in a mall)

1. You are completely stupid and don’t know when to keep your mouth shut.

2. You really are deranged and are so mentally deficient that you have no idea or don’t give a fuck about how such comments could affect this website.

3. You want this site shut down.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4
Charles June 22, 2011 at 20:55

Thank you for quoting Pontius Pilate, and thank you for your leadership in reminding and encouraging men to take the higher road among all this inequity and to persevere, march forward towards justice knowing that in a war many good and admirable men die for the greater cause. Make no mistake, this is a war of evolutionary moral and ethical humanity, that must be appropriately defended and protected. I will never give up for one, sharing what I have come to know to the intelligentsia that are out there. I know that there are still a few good women out their, but against the billions of other feminists out there, it is truly like finding a “molecule of the needle in a haystack” Yes, next to expecting a miracle. However to those very few women I respectfully applaud your virtue and only pray you do not succumb to this black hole of dehumanization to men. Good men should treat women with the respect they wish for their daughters, and good women should treat men with the respect they wish for their sons. No good father wants to hear his daughter abused, neither a good mother want’s to see her son taken advantage of or treated unjustly. I will march forward with these convictions and support others unconditionally in this quest in whatever way I can.

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Charles June 22, 2011 at 21:27

Oh, and Single Dad, I just want to say that pretty much 95% of the tenor of your disposition, your ideas, and your obvious sense of patience salted with humor is very admirable. You seem to have a broad understanding and perception that comes through your comments. I appreciate all of your comments and want to encourage your diplomacy and even your rather frank assessments. You must have been through much or have learned much by just going through little. Of course it is my wish for you to have the latter good fortune but maybe that is wishful thinking in today’s world. Anyways blessings to you and your family.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 23, 2011 at 05:59

This is how to talk to the ‘Minister for Police’.

Letter to the Minister for Police in NSW Australia. Good reading.

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/3/postid/504/scope/posts/Default.aspx#504

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gender foreigner June 23, 2011 at 14:26

Dear Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) June 23, 2011 at 05:59:

Thank you for your letter. There is so very much laudable about it.

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3DShooter June 24, 2011 at 22:00

@Welmer

I make no no apologies for my open advocacy for use of force – but it is as a last resort. I know where the predators of my life live [open public record searches are very handy] and it is only the love and affection of one young child that keeps them sucking air.

However, given some of the interesting news in the IT world it occurs to me that there is a less-than-lethal form that might be used effectively – call it LulzLaw. Find these family law offices and attack their business servers, same for the kangaroo family courts. Hell, if the CIA can’t keep hackers out what chance would a bunch of legal wankers have. Their business model would suffer dearly if their ability to communicate were disrupted and/or confidential documents were disclosed. Something I’m looking into . . . call it a hobby.

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Justthisguy June 28, 2011 at 21:13

On the decline of chivalry: I composed an haiku, back around ’93, on the subject, when I was cut off dangerously in traffic by a clueless, careless bint.

See:

Chivalry is dead.
Go, and drill your Birkenhead.
Your cunt is showing.

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Anthony July 19, 2011 at 16:45

Every man: get a gun. Get ready to use it. We’ve shown through years of persistence that our enemies will not succumb to reason. When reason falls upon deaf, stupid ears…force is our only remaining tool for ensuring our liberty. I fear this is the end of the line for the free man unless he revolts against his oppressors. They will make us into slaves if unhindered!

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