Comment of the Week: Why Men are not Marrying

by W.F. Price on May 27, 2011

[Editor: Commenter Tom Smith suggests that the reasons behind the decline in marriage are largely a result of economic circumstances - such as debt and the recession - that leave young men without the means to start families]

Many of you seem to think the lack of marriage in the young (25-29 year old men) is due to “footloose and fancy free” young women. Let me offer the two largest reasons for the lack of marriage (though not addressed by the article):

1) The lack of living wage jobs for Americans, particularly men. For a man to have a desire to get married, he must have a financial base. He understands that there will be financial expectations placed upon him by the woman. A man’s expectations for himself in this situation means a) the purchase of an engagement ring; b)setting aside money to buy a house; and c) with an expectation that a child may be born, setting aside money to pay for the medical (and other related) expenses of the child.

In today’s U.S. society, real wages have slipped- and by this I mean the entry level workers in the post-war generation made more in today’s dollars than entry level workers do now. For people in the 25-29 generation, these are people with limited work experience, high educational debt, and particularly for men, unbelievably high unemployment. Most graduate work was funded for members of the post-war generation. This is certainly not the case today; students must incur massive ongoing debt to attend graduate school (as if the debt incurred in undergraduate school was not enough). And educational debt generally is non-dischargable debt in a bankruptcy — the only way to “beat it” is to die.

Marriage (the ring, the ceremony, and “setting up house”) costs. And without money, why should a man take the chance?

2) Men’s traditional values. While women may have “changed,” men have not. Men realize that some women are for fucking (category 1) and some are for marrying (category 2). While the best place to meet a wife may be in high school or university, no man wants to marry a woman who he has seen “passed around” through all of his schoolmates (such is a category 1 woman ). And men – and I happen to be one of them – are generally put off when a woman decides to have sex on the first date.

Women of the marrying sort (category 2) are much harder to find. While most men would like them to put out after a period of dating, if they “go to fast” the man will be equally put off (and put them into category 1).

Women in category 2 understand that a man wants to have his financial house in order before committing to marriage. This type of woman will not push the man in the marriage direction, and she will wait for the man as he gets things together before making such a serious commitment. Once married, she will be understanding if a man loses his job (a typical situation these days) and will be willing to financially support him. She will not withhold sex as a “punishment” but instead realizes that sex in a married relationship is something which is expected and freely given.

Accordingly, because most men of the 25-29 generation borrowed heavily for education (or were lay-offs from skilled trade work due to lack of seniority), they are “not ready” financially for marriage. Given the poor economy, many such men are living with their parents (albeit not willingly). They are working Mc-Jobs which barely gives them enough money to go on dates, much less move out of their parents’ home.

Such a man has such a low level of self esteem that he lacks the ability to distinguish between either category of woman. For men who are in this age group and not working, they are ashamed and disillusioned. They cannot make a living, have to depend on their parents, and all they believed in (i.e. work hard, study hard, and get a living wage job) seems to be a big lie.

Men of this age group have two choices if they want to get on their feet and marry. Option 1 is to borrow heavily (again) to start a business, and invest nearly 3 years of sweat equity to make it work. Option 2 is to organize and pressure the politicians in Washington to get the economy back on its feet so men can return to living wage employment. With regard to Option 2, no one in Washington seems to give a damn.

{ 189 comments… read them below or add one }

sestamibi May 27, 2011 at 09:01

How true. These days, the “stimulus” money that Bammie said would save us seems to be directed more for the purpose of providing grads in wimmin’s studies with jobs as “diversity” and “sustainability” coordinators, rather than overhauling our crumbling infrastructure.

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Keyster May 27, 2011 at 09:12

This is one of those nice pieces here that beg for comments.

All of that is correct.
However, “He understands that there will be financial expectations placed upon him by the woman.”, AND I’ll add, he’s competing everyday for a job directly against those same women! Not only that she’s actually FAVORED by employers over him! Even if she’s less educated, experienced and competent.

The other factor facing young men is that, other than some free sex, young women are just not that pleasant to be around. They’re demanding. They expect that you pay for and keep them entertained or else they’ll dump you and you’ll need to find another one. Really to the modern young guy, it just ain’t worth all the hassle she’ll bring anymore.

It’s too bad but women have been hating on men for so long now, they’re starting to hate back.

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scot May 27, 2011 at 09:18

The “Gender-Raunch community” have made it so its the young women who are “buying the houses” , so to speak. Then when these young women look around for a good provider (Women vary rarely marry down), They just don’t see anyone heter0-males around.
Women have an inherent prejudice against males who are not as educated as they are, so as “gender-Raunch” purge more and more hetero-males from academic and professional life in America, it will be harder and harder for hetero-women who want to start a family.

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SingleDad May 27, 2011 at 09:19

Even the vanguard if the mainstream media, the NYT admits that women have wholesale turned against the institution of marriage.

Only in the area of mens rights will you find individuals blaming the victims of a system so tilted against them for the decisions of a socially more advantaged group, young women, to abandon them to the icy waters of irrelevance in a way entirely reminiscent of their foremothers on the titanic nearly 100 years ago.

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Ken May 27, 2011 at 09:23

and BINGO was his name-oh!
Yes, and some may say it is INTENTIONAL to de-populate the US as the birth rate is already declining below replacement-levels. Some people just want to see a free society die……

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scot May 27, 2011 at 09:25

THE TERM PATRIARCHY AND MATRIARCHY PERVERSION.
Most of societal violence in America is coming from the broken patriarchy, “matriarchal” segments of society.
U see by gender-feminists “Owning of the terms”, patriarchy, and matriarchy, and by going on to tell us that , up is down, left is right, patriarchy is matriarchy, ect, ect,, they then control the “construction” from this “framework”.
Time to take back the terms matriarchy and patriarchy from gender-feminists who have perverted the terms.

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oddsock May 27, 2011 at 09:30

My feckin arse. The decline in marriage is not only happening in the USA its even declining all across Europe and in many Asian countries. I say it is down to the rapid spread of information with men slowly getting the message.

OOh Oooh Gerry Rafferty. Baker street, more volume

OOOh that sax could make me cream my tweeds !

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Tom May 27, 2011 at 09:35

As an unmarried successful businessman, I am not sure I completely agree with the premise of this post (i.e. economics being largely the cause of the decline of marriage).

I have enough money to support a dozen housewives, but I want none of it! I am currently dating several very attractive women in their early 20′s and have absolutely no desire or incentive to change my lifestyle.

As has been mentioned many times before, there are many reasons why it makes no sense for men to marry these days (and none have to do with economics):

- American women are garbage that I wouldn’t touch with a haz-mat suit (if this comment surprises you, I encourage you to get your passport, and travel a bit and meet some real feminine ladies from abroad – trust me, you won’t touch an American woman ever again when (if?) you get back)

- Marriage only provides a financial incentive to destroy your family

- Marriage for men means 100% of the responsibilities and 0% of the “rights”

- Even if it works out, marriage is the most insanely abusive relationship you can ever find yourself in (your wife can unilaterally evict you, have you incarcerated, kidnap your children, steal your money, condemn you to lifelong financial slavery and deny sex while demanding sexual exclusivity..)

- Most children growing up in the morally decrepit West will not turn out well, and there is nothing that you can do to save them (because discipline = abuse): most girls will turn into the dirtiest sluts we have seen in probably 2,000 years and most boys will turn into depressed, beaten-down, sexually frustrated emasculated losers. Unless you are planning on having kids in a more traditional culture, it’s better to avoid fatherhood altogether in my opinion..

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oddsock May 27, 2011 at 09:47

Here you go Keyster & others. A couple of excellent short videos on how hate bounces.

How man hating and man bashing harms women

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A87VbJUY6g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH4poAZKeak

Still think the marriage decline is all about lack of jobs for men ? I think not.

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McBain May 27, 2011 at 09:50

Option 4: Expatriate.

If I were young and unattached I would move to a FSU state or Costa Rica or some such place. It will not make you rich but you might find some appreciation there. For example I heard Chinese factories like hiring Americans for quality control jobs.

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Mike May 27, 2011 at 09:54

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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dragnet May 27, 2011 at 09:57

Good comment. All this talk of men conciously opting out of marriage and going their own way is wrongheaded, in my view. There are still plenty of young guys who would like to get married, even with gender relations being what they are. Most of these guys are genuine, decent young men who just don’t have a clue. Most young guys don’t know what we know here—about the family court system, the divorce/theft industry, Game, etc. Most young guys are still buying the hype. The only thing stopping them is economics.

The NY Times article stated that only half as many young women are married as opposed to 25 years. But I’m willing to bet most of these women do wind up getting married later in life (which would coincide with Dalrock’s analysis). It’s taking young men a bit longer to launch their careers, but once they get them started and gain a bit of status and solid finances…there will be plenty of them lining up to marry the exact women who passed them up to get nailed by alphas 10 years earlier.

So yeah, there are still plenty of suckers in this game…and no real winners.

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Uncle Elmer May 27, 2011 at 09:59

Price, I am ready to submit my seminal essay Employment Game : Part I. It will dovetail nicely with this post.

Send me an email and let me know how you want it, baby.

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AfOR May 27, 2011 at 10:02

Wrong..

there are two classed of men…

Those who believe that wendy won’t fuck on first dates, and the kind of guys wendy fucks on first dates.

just cos YOU ain’t getting it from her doesn’t mean she ain’t opening her legs for anyone else, no matter how much YOU want to believe that this isn’t the case and NAWALT etc.

Dude, yesterday I made a comment about “skank A” and her partner B, she used to take my cock out of her mouth and tell me how much she loved him, and all you have to ask yourself is if he thinks she is the sort of girl who ain’t putting out…. yeah, the big commitment day is coming soon….

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Mickey T May 27, 2011 at 10:12

Save for all that Rafferty, Baker St, and sax stuff (I think), simply put, I sort of go along with oddsock. And if we leave it to the girls, we may all go the way of the dinosaurs. They’re in peace now.

Might as well enjoy.

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Opus May 27, 2011 at 10:17

I have indicated before that I am unpersuaded by the idea that the reason for decline in marriage is to do with men abandoning matrimony. Women marry for security. An unmarried daughter was a drain on her family, and spinsterdom might lead to penury for her. Marriage was therefore a good deal for a woman, however the invention of the contraceptive pill, the favouritism of females for the majority of the easier white-collar jobs and their generally higher wages, and the consequent abolition of the stigma of divorce and illegitimacy has allowed women to reveal their true natures, unconstrained by financial concerns i.e. their inner slut. It is, I would suggest, women who will not marry, and why should they. Women do not (unlike men) have that need for permanent commitment and the desire or need to protect, provide for and educate their children. Men may occasionally be unfaithful, (though that is really dependent on female promiscuity) but men do not generally abandon their family.

Amongst my friends I observe that although most are married their wives have married for financial reasons (usually Visas), whatever their romantic inclinations to their future husband.

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Ken May 27, 2011 at 10:18

“plenty of them lining up to marry the exact women who passed them up to get nailed by alphas 10 years earlier” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Desperation knows no bounds I guess. Personally, I spot these hussies a mile away and treat them accordingly: “Get out of my way lady!” :)

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Herbal Essence May 27, 2011 at 10:18

I agree with #2. We talk about that alot on here.

I don’t necessarily agree with #1, because poor/underemployed people have always found reasons to marry throughout our country’s history. Something else is changing for this demographic to discourage marriage. I would point to breakdown of traditional values, female hypergamy, and female access to the welfare state as larger factors than lack of prospects for men.

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Em May 27, 2011 at 10:31

Lets not forget women have no idea what it means to be a real lady, wife, or mother. They are taught to look out for self only and men be damned.

As much as it pains me to say this (because I have two daughters who are being raised properly) men wanting to marry are setting themselves up for heartache and finical ruin if they get married. It should be avoided unless they are lucky enough to find a real woman who’s parents brought her up right or they look abroad to find a real woman.

[Most] Women have no concept of what sacrifice or love is.

The finical status of man won’t matter if he has a real marriage quality woman. Unfortunately trying to find these rare woman here in America is like trying to find a unicorn or a leprechaun’s pot of gold.

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Shawn May 27, 2011 at 10:32

There are several reasons why marriage is declining, but none of them really matter to me. A lot of women I have encountered have “I can make your life a living hell” written on their foreheads. Remember guys, a woman is one bad day away from falling out of love with you.

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Phil May 27, 2011 at 10:43

Mexican Americans are marrying and having children. The marriage rage and birth rate is shrinking among European Americans. A lot of European American parents and their daughters have embraced the marxist feminist ideology. When an ethnic group embraces feminism, the birth rate and marriage rate collapse.

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Commander Shepard May 27, 2011 at 10:46

“Most boys will turn into depressed, beaten-down, sexually frustrated emasculated losers. ” – Tom

Feminists are celebrating their triumph. If they seized total power betas (the majority of men) would be off to the ovens under the pretense of being “creepy”. Alpha would remain alive but only as sex slaves. No man wins if our side loses. We could very well be past the point of no return.

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Alex May 27, 2011 at 10:49

@ Em 10:31

You made a lot of excellent points. The phrase “women can have it all” has always disgusted me. A lot of women who “want it all” usually ditch their kids at daycare all day. Then, the mothers will declare themselves “Mother of the Year” because they cooked tv dinners for the children for supper. I feel sorry for the kids who have to suffer because of women who care more about their own egos rather than the welfare of their children.

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Nico May 27, 2011 at 10:53

OT: “The IMF achieved its gender benchmarks” under DSK.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/div/index.asp

“the benchmark for the representation of women among senior staff was reached ahead of schedule”
“Women’s representation at the B-level exceeded the target. The 20 percent
benchmark was met in May 2010 and the actual share reached 21.5 percent at the end of the year.”
“The representation of women on the senior staff remains low—thus the
current initiative to set a new benchmark”

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Uncle Elmer May 27, 2011 at 10:56

Allright, I submitted my essay “Employment Game Part I : Finding Work in the Context of the Woman’s Nation” to your email at welmer.org.

I know the peoples have been anticipating it so post it and let me bask in the comment glow.

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Dalrock May 27, 2011 at 10:58

Many of you seem to think the lack of marriage in the young (25-29 year old men) is due to “footloose and fancy free” young women.

I haven’t looked closely at the changes in age for when men first marry, so maybe there is a detail here that I’m missing. My basic assumption is that when there are changes to marriage rates of a given age bracket, whichever sex is in the power position for that bracket is driving the change. So women not being able to marry/remarry in their 40s and beyond I assume is men deciding they aren’t that attractive. I know women will swear it is because they are “done with men” at that age, but I simply won’t buy it. Likewise, women not marrying when they are at their peak value suggests to me that they are the ones deciding not to marry. Otherwise it would seem we have to assume men in their late 20s and early 30s prefer women their own age or older to younger/hotter/tighter brides. The author also mentioned promiscuity, and I’m not aware of how a woman can get less of a history by waiting longer to marry.

I’m not saying family formation isn’t an issue, but at first glance at least my gut says it isn’t the men driving the trend of women not marrying in their 20s.

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oddsock May 27, 2011 at 11:01

Commander Shepard

“Alpha would remain alive but only as sex slaves. No man wins if our side loses. We could very well be past the point of no return.”

You give the feminists way way too much credit. They are nothing but useful idiots of the elite. That much is quite plain for all to see.

I agree, we are past the point of no return. What lies ahead is going to be very interesting indeed. I don’t think it was or is going to be anything like the hoped for scenario, especially by the feminists. Most other women are oblivious to the shit storm ahead although I have started to detect a very slight change in female attitudes of late. I think they are beginning to sense that all is not well. Or it could just be the sight of angry izzy beneath my arm ?

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SingleDad May 27, 2011 at 11:02

Thanks Em for making my point. I fear what women have said about mens ego’s may make your message impossible to hear for most men. @Elmer thanks looking forward to dome good advice.

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oddsock May 27, 2011 at 11:07

Well done Uncle Elmer. I am sure your essay will be a cracker.

Just to show my appreciation and offer further encouragment. I would just like to say.

About feckin time. lol

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Kevin May 27, 2011 at 11:09

I don’t understand where all this hatred came from concerning women hating men. I know feminism did a lot to poison women’s minds, but could it really have that big of an influence? I see so many angry women in my daily life who have a genuine hatred for men and I don’t understand where it comes from. How do all these women think they are Wonder Woman? Do they really think that being born a female makes them superhuman? If anyone has some ideas, let me know.

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blert May 27, 2011 at 11:20

Mike nailed it:

Generations ago the First Directorate of the KGB figured out the above dynamic.

By the 70′s advancing Feminism was priority number one for the Active Measures crowd.

Rather like the original Terminator…

Feminism promised to kill American warriors before they were even born.

The TFR of Whites shows that the project was and is a success.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGM5XMUGdVU

Bezmenov spells it out. Once the ball gets rolling…

Useful idiots carry the ball.

And most Americans can’t figure out that the Feminist ideology is a combatant meme advanced time and again by Moscow.

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Firepower May 27, 2011 at 11:20

While I agree with Tom Smith’s analysis, these reasons should have been glaringly apparent to even the dimmest American, what with our glut of 24/7 cable news stations and the internet.

Even everyone’s practical real-life experience of seeing houses at historic lows and interest rates FAR below even those at 3.50% for a 30 year – without any takers -should have been the word to the wise.

Americans have a saying: “find the problem, fix the blame.”
Asians have a saying: “find the problem fix the PROBLEM.”

It’s not just the intellectual skills capable of rooting out problems – it’s what do you do next.

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Quartermain May 27, 2011 at 11:24

The statements made by Tom Smith and the reasons given by survivors of the modern marriage trap are by no means mutually exclusive.

The decline of the western economy and it’s industrial base is indeed a factor.

There is no denying than a overwhelming amount of western women are shallow, greedy, hypergamous, vain, and emotionally sterile medusas.

The two points don’t contradict eachother. So let’s not be like the anal retentive blind men trying to describe the elephant.

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Opus May 27, 2011 at 11:38

@ Kevin

The reason for the hatred that you see of men by women (not unconnected with my earlier post, I think) is, I would suggest, that after half a century, nay a century of women being told that they are as good as men that even with laws skewed in their favour, and affirmative action for them at work they cannot help but notice that men remain, physically stronger, more decent peronally, and more driven intellectually. They see that the idea (always daft) that the reason for male dominance (which they hoped had to do with oppression) was nothing of the sort, and that biology has simply given women a poorer hand. The one thing they are naturally better at, is the thing they reject, or screw up without male control i.e. moitherhood and family.

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Keyster May 27, 2011 at 11:47

The “white male ruling class” has been running things for millenia.
They evolved the culture/society into what became the idea that is the United States. Lessons were learned from theocracy, oligarchy, tyranny and even previous failed democracys, adjustments were made and applied, a nation born.

Now what better way to neutralize white male dominance than through his female half via feminism? The white ruling class stops marrying, stops procreating and the culture slowly becomes irrelevant, if not extinct all together; to be replaced by a utopian, “multi-culti” culture of browness where no one race can ever dominate (or show up), another.

That’s the long view master plan of the NWO types.
George Soros has wet dreams just thinking about it.

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Keyster May 27, 2011 at 11:54

“I see so many angry women in my daily life who have a genuine hatred for men and I don’t understand where it comes from.”

It comes from the three headed hydra of thought control that feminists rule over:
Mass Media
Government
Academia

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oddsock May 27, 2011 at 11:56

blert

“Useful idiots carry the ball.

And most Americans can’t figure out that the Feminist ideology is a combatant meme advanced time and again by Moscow.”

It is not just the Americans that cannot figure this out mate. When the Berlin wall collapsed most people gave a loud cheer and started to celebrate the collaspse of communism. Total nonsense. Little did people know that is was only another stage in it’s advancement.

As I have said many times before on here and many other MRA websites. Feminists are nothing but useful idiots of the elite. Incredibly effective and quite powerful in destroying the family de-stabalizing the economy and above all totally pussifying the average male. And we make post after post day after day year after year debating the reasons why Suzie Suckmydick can’t find a husband etc etc.

What’s that saying about Rome burning while whatshisface played the fiddle?

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Ryen May 27, 2011 at 11:57

I used to be interested in finding a wife, but that dream has died. You know what killed it? One day I realized that a man can love a women so much that he will give his life to protect his woman, but a woman will not sacrifice one minute of her day to do anything that would benefit her man.

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TFH May 27, 2011 at 12:06

So economic hardship now is saving men from financial ruin of Marriage 2.0 down the line?

Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.

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Em May 27, 2011 at 12:15

@ Kevin @Opus

Actually, the reason woman hate men is a simple one. Every woman knows deep down she cannot happily exist without one. Men by the very fact they exist means she cannot be happy AND independent.

Women are happier, more mentally stable and more secure when they have a man who is, for lack of a better term, superior to themselves. One who is more intelligent, stronger physically and able to lead a family is preferred by almost all woman universally.

Feminism has taught women these are the men to be avoided because they cause women to depend on men. This is the real evil of feminism. It causes women to deny their own biological nature in favor of trying to be like man, which will only rot a woman from the inside out.

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Mickey T May 27, 2011 at 12:51

“They are taught to look out for self and men be damned”

I think of the boys who grow up in an enviroment like this. They watch their sisters acting like little bitches, who mistreat and demean them. The girls of the family are commonly regarded as superior to the boys. Sadly, that is an accepted norm in this twisted culture. Then the boys watch their mothers condone or even encourage this terrible behavior from the girls. Boys have it coming from both directions at home. A boy’s view on male /female relationships has to be negatively affected by growing up like in a family like this.

In my family there was a marriage with one child, a boy. The parents divorced when the boy was a small child and of course, the mother got custody. She always made clear that she resented getting “stuck” with him. The boy was always aware of her attitude about him in this way. When the boy was age ten she decided she had, had it and dumped into the grandparent’s lap, saying “now it’s their turn”. And there is where he finished growing up. Now he is in his mid forties and never had a meaningful relationship with a woman, let alone any desire to marry.

Of course, this could have happened in 1875 instead of 1975, but obviously, I attribute the mother’s behavior to the influence of modern feminism (other than….). This is only one of the many ways that women have negatively affected the marriage rate.

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SingleDad May 27, 2011 at 12:55

@ Em

Here here. Keep it coming.

Notice guys, how the woman in the discussion doesn’t need to blame this on international economic conspiracies.

The reasons are part of the female psyche. Just as the egoism of men that won’t allow men to see that modern women are “just not into men”.

They see themselves as better men, men with intuition and more compassion. Modern women want to have sex with….themselves. Hence the huge amount of female “bisexuality”.

IMO men that rail against this may as well be howling at the wind. It realizes boredom but gets nothing accomplished.

For men, this is a unique opportunity in history for personal growth. And yes, women will have sex for men for money. They have no moral, physical or spiritual problems with this (the majority of young women).

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Seamus the Classicist May 27, 2011 at 13:05

This is the problem with the perverse materialistic West, it takes so much money to start a family. To start a family, which is what people have done since the Stone Age. It is stupid, did lack of means stop the Irish from forming families during the Oppression of the British for 800 years? I think the evidence of millions of Irish descended people around the world today negate this. Did hard times prevent the Jews from forming families? I guess the fact that the Jews are still around shows that isn’t the case. No it used to be for better or for worse. Marriage isn’t on the decline because of money, it’s on the decline because it is meaningless.

Women want men reduced to breadwinners, because as money comes and goes easily so then does the man’s power. In Marriage v0 and 1.0 the man was the man independent of whether the crops did well or the Mongols invaded. No the empowered bitches of my ex-fiancee’s family played that game: her sister threatened to leave her brother-in-law when they were dating if he didn’t “get some kind of job” the little sissy ass SoCon Magina of course immediate found a job and proposed to her. The bitch left because “she was no longer attracted to me because I wasn’t financially stable” after I stuck with her Herpes ridden ass.

No do not be reduced to the breadwinner status of the ultimate White Knight/Maginas of two generations past. Woman at her heart is pernicious and a whore, the type ones put out for attention and short term security, the type twos put out for money and security. That is what my friends and I discovered with good old SoCon/FiscCon girls, they are just whores looking for a “traditional” man that will kiss their asses and break his “back” making money for them.

And let us speak on the unfair discrimination against Men among the professional and academic circles. My ex-fiancee can lie on her ROTC application about seizures, but my friend goes tot he recruiter to go Naval OCS and is told to hit road because he has a couple of alcohol related charges. My ex-fiancee’s turbo slut friend lies to her current employer about being Six Sigma qualified (“oh I just learn it as I need it”) and stays with the job (the whore also lied about her GPA, and the school she attended for a $14/hr job anyone of my friends will kill for) because she has no hesitation about passing out sexual favors and engaging in sexual harassment black mail (she once had a man fired at a summer job she worked, it may have been a summer college job to her, but it was his livelyhood.)

These women today are sociopaths, treat them as such.

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TFH May 27, 2011 at 13:07

The NYT article tells us nothing other than that women who in the past might have married before 27 are now marrying at 33. Dalrock and Dragnet are saying essentially this.

There are still far too many saps who get married to such women, oblivious to the risks. I often tell a young 20-something guy what I know about all this (pointing him to the Wedded Abyss site). They uniformly say that no one ever told them this before, and, notably, don’t reject what I tell them. Now, whether they change course, or just forget what I told them and become a schmucky groom, remains to be seen.

It has lowered white birth rates, however. Cultures where a woman becomes a grandmother at 45 vs. a culture where she becomes a grandmother at 70, means the latter gets quickly outnumbered by the former.

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sestamibi May 27, 2011 at 13:23

@Mike

Oh really? Why don’t you read this.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/659dkrod.asp

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oddsock May 27, 2011 at 13:31

Seamus the Classicist

” did lack of means stop the Irish from forming families during the Oppression of the British for 800 years? I think the evidence of millions of Irish descended people around the world today negate this.”

Seamus. with respect and knowing your love of history etc and I know you are only trying to prove a point. I suspect your above statement is quite inaccurate. I think the high birth rate of the Irish people had little to do with or without what you describe as “Oppression of the British for 800 years?”

I think you will find that it had a lot more to do with the Roman Catholic religion and no birth control in the later years. The oppressive British were also oppressing it’s own people in much the same way. I think it would be more accurate to describe it as oppression by the elite or Royals ? Again, very similar to what we have today. To imply the British oppressed the Irish would be like me saying all Irish are members of the IRA.

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Peter May 27, 2011 at 13:32

For men who are in this age group and not working, they are ashamed and disillusioned. They cannot make a living, have to depend on their parents, and all they believed in (i.e. work hard, study hard, and get a living wage job) seems to be a big lie.

Yep, I keep saying that there are two types of men who are attracted to the manosphere.

One is the type of men who are post-divorce and have been through the family court wringer.

The other are guys in their 20′s who just graduated, and find that the jobs just aren’t out there for them. Or maybe they weren’t able to afford university in the first place. Then they find that women really are only dating “up”, and unless they’re natural alphas they’re kinda screwed.

I remember when I graduated university. I luckily wasn’t too far in debt, but I remember the crushing disappointment of a long slog through an engineering degree, only to find no jobs at the other end. For men. All the ladies didn’t seem to have trouble finding jobs.

That’s when I woke up to the bullshit that is the modern establishment view. The idea that women are the perpetual victims of men seemed like some kinda horseshit when they were being preferentially hired and promoted. And the idea that as a straight white guy I had some sort of “privilege” was ridiculous when I was working maintenance in a factory for 10 bucks an hour post graduation.

Worst of all, my plain-jane girlfriend started to develop a sense of contempt for me, and even though I’m a very good looking man, she wouldn’t agree to marry me. And she was a “category 2″ girl, supposedly. Even they don’t want to marry down.

Men of this age group have two choices if they want to get on their feet and marry. Option 1 is to borrow heavily (again) to start a business, and invest nearly 3 years of sweat equity to make it work. Option 2 is to organize and pressure the politicians in Washington to get the economy back on its feet so men can return to living wage employment.

This is where I disagree. Option 1 is not an option at all. See my post about “The Real Lesson of Scott Adams”. The guy worked super hard, got hired, then denied promotion at two separate companies due to affirmative action. Then he started his own business and earned a modest fortune. What light was waiting for him at the end of that tunnel? A 37 year old divorced hag with two kids in tow. No fucking thanks.

Option 2 is no longer in play; the elites have decided that women make up a much more docile and compliant client base than men do.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 13:34

Kevin May 27, 2011 at 11:09
I don’t understand where all this hatred came from concerning women hating men. I know feminism did a lot to poison women’s minds, but could it really have that big of an influence? I see so many angry women in my daily life who have a genuine hatred for men and I don’t understand where it comes from. How do all these women think they are Wonder Woman? Do they really think that being born a female makes them superhuman? If anyone has some ideas, let me know.

———————————————————————-

Kevin, here is my theory. I started thinking about it after reading a article by a psychologist who kept asking the same question.

Now, take off your feminist induced blinders and throw out the first few base level assumptions that the entire PC feminist ideology is based on. Here are my different base level assumptions.

1. Men and women are different, we evolved with different strategies to gain the basic necessities to survive in a hostile world.

2.Men tend towards dominance and women tend towards submission.

3. Dominance and Submission do not mean what most people conceptualize them to mean, this is why feminists attack those words and related words… (if you read feminist garbage then you will realize that one minute they will talk about dominance, then the next aggression and then magically they have moved onto the topic of violence but these words are only vaguely related.)

Now, one idea that fascinates me revolves around power struggles. Who really has the power? I remember finding out about BDSM and one psychological component that amazed me was that the submissive person actually had the power over the dominant person. This seems counter intuitive. Especially when the scenario revolves around the sub being beaten and whipped and verbally degrated in what appears to be some sick fantasy or role play.

The truth is that the submission person, the one being chained and beaten, has the power and not the dominant person or the one doing the beating. The reason is that the submissive person has safe words. In other words, the submissive controls the actions of the dominant.

Think about this for a moment and keep in mind that you have far less in common with a woman than you might ever could have imagined.

I don’t know about you guys but if someone was smacking the shit out of me my first instinct is to fight back. I used to wonder how a woman could get off on being so brutalized. I thought, at one point in time, that it had to do with a abusive man dominating a woman and making her fulfill his fantasies about harming women. This is not the case. Women have rape or ravishment as it is called in sexology fantasies all the time.

When I think about it it makes perfect sense. Most men are not naturally dominant to the point that he wants to rape and beat women but at some point in our evolutionary strajectories there were enough men of that caliber that they passed on their genes and women because hardwired to a degree to seek this out. This is the birth of hypergamy and it didn’t even have to happen over a long period of time either. Women sync up their menstrual cycles when living in proximity which strengthens their female-female compeition for sperm which then allows the most aggressive male to impregnate as many women as possible.

Most of human society the males have worked to get rid of the small number of deviant men but have largely left the women alone. Think about it.

The majority of men throughout history fought off and killed the small number of dominant men but the women actually wanted those dominant men because they wanted to submit to the darker elements of the human mind and human capacity. For a time this allowed betas to be seen as alphas by their respective women, because these guys just slayed the dragon so to speak.

This system can only go on for so long before the dominant aspects of men looks too submissive in the females eyes.

Have you ever seen how female friends will hate each other because one friend hooked up with the love interest of the other friend? This type of thing is playing out on a major level in society.

I think that the submissive aspect of women carries a propensity towards anger and hate and I think that they are hateful towards men because they basically didn’t get their love interest.

I think part of it is a natural response to feeling lied to and taken advantage of.

Imagine how pissed you would be if you bought a car and was told that the car was a great car and then it dies five minutes after driving it off the lot.

The hypergamous and submissive nature of women means they keep feeling lied to because they aren’t getting to look up to and be dominated by men in the way they want but at the same time if they admit to how fucked up and immoral their base nature really is then society won’t accept them. The only type of person that would accept them would be the Ted Bundys of the world and the world revolves around trying to kill and eradicate those types.

This is a double bind for women. They want what they can’t have and what they want is destructive for themselves and others. It is especially destructive for the next generation. Look at the mug shots of single mothers arrested for allowing a thug to kill her kids. They rarely look sad to me, they look like they finally found their evil alpha and it seems to me that they act like they finally found what they wanted all along.

Personally, I think so much confusion in men about women comes from projection. It is a natural human behavior to assume that others think and act like you do. I saw a study awhile back that said dumb people assume they are smarter and smart people assume they are dumb. It is the same sort of thing. We look at women and we project and we assume that their minds must work in a similiar fashion to our minds but theirs are 180 degrees off if not made from a completely different material.

I said that men tend towards dominance but I don’t think most men want to be masters and rulers over women. So how did women evolve to compensate for their desire to have dominate men? They push and push and push and try to mold those men into the dominant men they want. Think about it, women are always trying to change men. I don’t think this has ever really worked for most women in history and I think they hate men because we won’t change into the creature that they want us to be.

Their higher propensity for anger and hate towards us is a manifestation of their natural tendencies to select out the best genes possible. Remember, it is all about survival and protection for offspring. In purely evolutionary terms a alpha is one who reproduces. Throughout history about 40% of the men who lived reproduced while about 80% of the women did.

I am not putting this together in a conclusion as well as I was hoping to but basically I think their anger towards men is a natural state for women and I think it is the catalyst the pushes men towards the dominant side of the equation while allowing the woman to submit because the submission aspect is where the true power is. Behind ever powerful man is a manipulative woman who acts like a puppet masters and don’t you think the puppet master would be pissed if his puppet cut the strings?

I actually think that women will only become more angry towards men as they gain more power over men. Part of this is due to female-female competition for mates. Fewer alphas means more competition and this means worse female on female behavior and they will project this anger onto men because in their minds we are the ones failing to dominate them. I suspect this plays into why women abuse children more.

In the female mind the child represents what society won’t allow her to have, her own dominant and violent ted bundy because if she and other women had that then society couldn’t exist in a safe enough way to insure that children grow to be adults. This is the dance between the sexes and it has been raging for millenia. Women must temper their natural inclinations or men must temper them for her. If men do it for her then it provides the illusion of dominant and alpha and even “abusive” behavior that the female craves. If men don’t then she doesn’t get what she wants and the child is a reflection of what he wanted.

This is why women seek out abusive men after having a child with a man. This is why women will abuse children more. They represent the reality that they really can’t have what they want from men and they know that they actually have power over the child where they don’t have the power over men. I have written enough on this but do some research into the psychology of BDSM. You will find that most dom men don’t want to act out rape fantasies and torture fantasies with their women but they have to be coerced into it by the woman because….well….don’t men just want to please women in one way or another??? Men seek happiness and women seek abuse. I can only figure that this came about through evolution and groups of humans trying to survive in hostile environments and one major way to do that is to make sure that the dark triad or evil type of genes don’t get promulgated at the expense of the herd. At some point enough males of this dark gene type reproduced with enough women that it became part of their nature while enough men fought off these types for the betterment of society. Women are doomed to hate men because men ultimately won’t give them what they truly desire.

It is a dark conclusion that I have come to and I may not have spelled it out and clearly as I meant to, I am a bit hung over right now, but take those first assumptions and do some research and just observe what you see around you and I bet you will be hard pressed to come to any conclusions that are much different. I find it funny that many feminists are into BDSM. Hell, just look at almost any issue and it revolves around feminists and women denying men what they want to hurt men. Children, sex, porn, etc. It is all either a projection of their own interests or born of spite for not giving them what they want or it is about getting what they want.

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Lara May 27, 2011 at 13:34

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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sestamibi May 27, 2011 at 13:34

@Seamus

“Did hard times prevent the Jews from forming families? I guess the fact that the Jews are still around shows that isn’t the case.”

If our current reproductive habits continue on much longer that might indeed yet be the case.

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SingleDad May 27, 2011 at 13:41

The fertility rates for women in the US are dropping rapidly, because US women don’t want and can’t care for babies even more than they don’t want men:

There was a 2.3 percent drop in fertility in white women in the US in one year, 2008 to 2009:

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2011/us-fertility-decline.aspx?p=1

The article blames it on the recession.

And world wide depopulation continues apace, there has been a 50% overall reduction in world wide fertility rate:

5 babies per woman down to 2.5 babies per woman:

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+fertility+rates

And overall world population is 7 billion and predicted to be 10 billion by 2083 although these groups seem to be anti-population growth so take that into account when interpreting the numbers:

http://geography.about.com/od/obtainpopulationdata/a/worldpopulation.htm

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 13:56

To Em and single dad and ryen and others. I just refreshed the page after typing all that and I think the comments since Kevins prove my point.

Women seek abusive men and when men aren’t that way then they try to push the man to the point that he will become that form of dominant. I keep thinking of a few girls I knew who were in “abusive relationships with bad boys” and this was when I first had my eyes opened. I talked to several of them and many admitted that they would start fights first and throw the first punches and I remember one saying, ” He isn’t a real man if he doesn’t put his fist through the wall and then his hands on me.” I have seen feminists claim that the only reason women would start fights is because they know it is coming but they just want to get it over with. I say bullshit.

Kevin, the answers are all around you. Look at Rihannas latest song about loving abusive men. Look at the fact that the two fastest growing niche porn types, that are responding to market demands because don’t think for a moment that billion dollar online industries don’t make porn based on what men search and keywords, are cuckoldry porn and BDSM porn.

I have come across some of this type of porn while trolling the interwebs and BDSM is the most fascinating. I personally don’t get off on seeing a woman tied down and whipped and beated until she is crying and black and blue but the thing I find fascinating is that the videos I have seen on mainstream sites are billed as consentual or free range or green porn. Joking. But the fact is that each video has the abused woman interviewed at the end and she looks like she has never been happier. She is smiling from ear to ear and talking about how great the experience was.

Think about it. Look around and observe. Whether it is women seeking men in prison or their hypergamous “where are all the good men” rants…

…………………………………………………………………………………..

Ryen May 27, 2011 at 11:57
I used to be interested in finding a wife, but that dream has died. You know what killed it? One day I realized that a man can love a women so much that he will give his life to protect his woman, but a woman will not sacrifice one minute of her day to do anything that would benefit her man.

………………………………………………………………………………………….

So true. That is unless you are ted bundy or like him. Then she will marry you in prison and proclaim to the world that you are the nicest guy alive.

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scatmaster May 27, 2011 at 14:00

Shawn said:

a woman is one bad day away from falling out of love with you.

May I make that into a tee shirt or a sticker?

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scatmaster May 27, 2011 at 14:00

Shawn said:

a woman is one bad day away from falling out of love with you.

May I make that into a tee shirt or a sticker?

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 14:05

I actually think that all of these conclusions about marriage are true to a degree.

Non of these seem to be mutually exlusive concepts and I am sure there are distinct groups that all of these conclusions apply to and I am sure there are some where only one or two apply to.

For example, most 19 or 20 yr old women don’t want to get married until they are 29. They often don’t even want boyfriends because they want to play the field. If they have boyfriends then they probably aren’t interested in marrying him but instead are using him as a fun time or a provider.

At the same time I know there are many men who have no interest in getting married. The popular discourse is of women pressuring men into commitment and marriage for a reason. It is largely true. Then there are men who have no desire for relationships with women because they have treated us like shit our entire lives.

I am sure there are also many men who want to get married, I have met some and been kinda dismayed and confused, but they don’t have the economic potential to provide for a wife and most women don’t want lower class men. Or men that are of a lower status than themselves.

I think it is kinda foolish to blame just one explanation. I think there are many explanations and I think it probably depends on the demographics to a certain extent. It seems to me that gays and hyper religious people are the only ones really interested in marriage these days….that and many if not most women but they may be more interested in the wedding than the actually marriage.

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bruno May 27, 2011 at 14:06

Declining marriage rate has nothing to do with the economy.
Proof of that is that marriage rate is higher than average in poor regions, and lower than average in richer regions.

It also had nothing to do with women’s choices, because marriage is one of women’s main sources of income. It’s easy money for them.

So, it’s all about more and more men using their brain, gathering all their courage and saying: Marriage? Honey, that’s not really necessary…

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greyghost May 27, 2011 at 15:08

Well time for greyghost to throw in his 2 cents. The marriage rate is going down for a combination of reason with each feeding the other. Girls are sluts now practicing the as called now the hook up culture. (fuck first and see if we like each other) Serial monogomy “last year she had 60 boyfriends and was faithful to each one.” Hypergamy and feminism and pop culture and this tingling pussy that has guys always asking her out says wait for the stud of her dreams. The attention starts to go as they age and around 30 or so they start looking for the chump. Men have discovered game and PUA for riding these empowered bitches and the girls love it. We just had an article about a guy that charges 5 to 6 hundred dollars to attend a week end siminar. Combine the two the girls want to be sluts and the boys want to ride the sluts. Game and PUA trainings first step is learning the sexual psychology of females to get into that ass. 10 years of that and you have a man that knows women and that knowledge will keep a man single. (The phrase NAWALT is the reset button that doesn’t work with as many as before.)
Also many men have seen women as they are and the divorce and the double anti male standards and it doesn’t make a young man marry. Older men that these men would marry know from experience and aren’t biting either. Laws of misandry combined with this behavior and men adapting (game, MGTOW,blogging etc. do you think if welmer’s wife loved and appreciated a man that could write such thoughtful and insightful articles that there would be a spearhead?) we will have reduced marriage and the rate of reduction will speed up as more knowledge is gained be men. As more men practice game more young women will compete and more men will practice game. Feminism has made any check on this behavior criminal so have at it ladies.
In short Dalrock has a good explaination for reduced marriage.
EM you got it right to me.

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Mickey T May 27, 2011 at 15:13

P Schlafly
[In the 1970s when The Equal Rights Amendment was being proposed] feminists were already propagating the lie that marriage is an inherently abusive institution that makes wives second-class citizens. Feminist dominance in the universities assures that college textbooks portray marriage as a bleak and dreary for women. Assigned readings are preoccupied with domestic violence, battering, abuse, marital rape and divorce.

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Em May 27, 2011 at 15:18

@ Troll King

I have to respectfully disagree that woman want to be abused and are immoral at birth. This is also not an argument about why man should trap themselves in marriage, it’s just my experience as a woman.

This might sound like blaming or not taking responsibly, but I am going to try to explain something from a woman’s perspective and yes, it has a lot to do with emotions, hormones and irrational behavior.

I had a very easy birth experiences with my first child, which was a blessing considering my husband and I were dealing with a false rape accusation at the time.

The birth of my second child was another story entirely. I was forced by the medical profession to remain pregnant (through medications to stop contractions) for an additional two weeks because the “due date” they calculated didn’t line up with the due date of my actual cycle. After a baby is finished gestating the placenta begins to calcify, and adheres to the lining of the uterus if the baby and the plectra are not expelled through child birth. The placenta had aged passed its expatriation, and my baby was deemed overdue. The doctor literally had to rip out the placenta. This caused bleeding that wouldn’t stop. I was given several injections of a medication (I can’t remember what it was called) and the massive blood loss stopped. After the initial couple of weeks of healing, I was still bleeding more than I should instead of the gradual decrease expected. The doctor prescribed birth control to stop the bleeding. I’d never been on birth control before as my husband and I relied on condoms before we decided to have a baby.

About a week after I started taking birth control I felt like I was literally going insane. I hated everyone and was angry at everything. I’d provoke my husband for no reason, and in the next minute I’d be literally trying to take his clothes off to have sex with him, and then I’d be hysterical and sobbing, and then I’d be angry with him for “allowing” me to feel this out of control and try to provoke him again. This cycle repeated daily, sometimes hourly, for the duration I was on birth control.

I knew something was wrong, but didn’t know what to do or how to make it stop. I was very angry at my husband for “letting” this happen to me. I had a baby I need to care for, but felt I was too insane to do it. I don’t know how he dealt with me as patiently as he did for those couple of weeks, and he deserves a medal for doing so. As soon as my bleeding stopped, he threw out the birth control pills and forbid me from ever taking them again. I was pissed. Who the hell was he to decide what happened to me and my body? But I didn’t have my own money to go and get more of the birth control, and he wouldn’t give me any. It took about two months for me to get back to something closer to normal, and about a year before I was myself again.

Without my husband there to protect me, I would have gone the route of the mentally insane woman of modern society. Yes, my behavior mimicked a lot of what we seen in the majority of women today. Without my husband, my two-year-old and baby could have been in trouble.

I don’t want my husband to beat me. I don’t want to be abused. I want a man who can take care of me when something as unforeseen as a total mental breakdown because of a prescription happens. I want a man who isn’t going to flake out when something really bad happens. I want a man with his “cold, hard” logic to be able to pull me and my children through a bad time.

Most women don’t want to be abused; they want someone who can control them when they are out of control. An honest woman has to admit the ever changing hormones of her cycle can make her unstable at times. This doesn’t make woman unaccountable for their behavior. I can and do control my own attitude and behavior no matter what part of my cycle I am in. The one time I was totally out of control and unstable my husband was there to bring me back to a saner and safer state of mind.

Seven years later we are still happily married and I am not insane.

I am not blaming the current state of women solely on birth control, though I do think it’s a contributing factor. I’ve known way too many women who “went off the deep end” after they started taking the pill, but didn’t stop because their doctor said there wasn’t anything wrong with them.

Attributing some BD/SM mentality to all women just doesn’t work. I will agree that they want someone who will control them if needed.

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Legion May 27, 2011 at 15:34

Mickey T May 27, 2011 at 10:12
“Save for all that Rafferty, Baker St, and sax stuff (I think), simply put, I sort of go along with oddsock.”

That Izzey is a bad influence on him.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 15:36

OT

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/05/26/why-women-arent-pigs/

So apparently women should rule the world, vote women cause they do no wrong.

Or maybe not
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43083163/ns/health-behavior/

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Classic Joe May 27, 2011 at 15:39

I think the economy is contributing to declining marriage rates indirectly. Young men not having money is helping them put off marriage until they’re old enough to make a rational decision about it. A lot of 20 year old guys would want to get married if they had reasonably high paying, stable jobs. They’ve hardly known anything but the school system and media and they’re brainwashed. By the time they’re 30 they’re old enough to realize that there is a huge difference between reality and what they were taught by government schools and tv. Even if they don’t understand it this chasm has to be gnawing at the subconscious mind of all but the very dimmest of them.

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dragnet May 27, 2011 at 15:55

@ TFH

“Cultures where a woman becomes a grandmother at 45 vs. a culture where she becomes a grandmother at 70, means the latter gets quickly outnumbered by the former.”

Yes, but there is a more pressing concern for this country—declining economic and demographic support for the social welfare state. A lot of people are pressing for universal healthcare and robust social security…but how are we going to pay for it with the anemic tax revenues stemming from falling birth rates?

Recent demagoguing of the issue aside, universal healthcare is something that has long been supported by both American conservatism and liberalism. Women are far more dependent on these social welfare systems than men. You would think there would be an interest in maintaining the strength of the tax base, for which robust birth rates are key. But I never see this point addressed.

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Attila May 27, 2011 at 16:00

All I have to do in order to rejoice over NOT being married is to go food shopping at the Whole Foods market in our area. To see these- supposedly educated women- shopping and sleazing around is enough to confirm any guy’s worst (or best) suspicions. LOVE means not ever having to say LET ME F’KNG BE!

Nice Holiday Guyz!

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E-Sizzle May 27, 2011 at 16:01

I’m in my early 40′s and I’m not married and never was. When I was younger, like in my 20′s, it seemed like something I would want to do, sometime. Never got around to it and I completely lost interest in it. I love being single. I don’t want to have kids.

Most of my peers are married and I don’t envy them. They love it when their wives go on vacation w/o them and their free for a few days. And I really don’t envy divorced men. “Find some woman you hate and buy her a house.” That’s what divorce is. Damn.

Marriage became outdated the day they invented the pill and women decided to have sex for sport. The fact that people still marry means that some/alot of women knew what a good deal they had and subtly but firmly barter access to sex for a relationship. (Of course no one ever talks about this in such a direct fashion and a veneer of BS is put over it.)

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Mickey T May 27, 2011 at 16:15

“They love when their wives go on vacation w/o them………..”

I’m one generation ahead of you and I can’t imagine a vacation without my wife, or vise-versa.

Pity, what we’ve come to.

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frank May 27, 2011 at 16:59

I lived in Russia for a year as an English teacher. The women there are BEAUTIFUL and they just love being women. Even a Russian 5 becomes a 7 just because they’re so feminine, graceful, sweet and easy-going compared to American women. I’ve been to the Baltics, Middle-East, Mexico, Central America, Mexico, and Canada there is seriously something wrong with western feminists and yes I would only marry overseas and keep her there.

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Tim May 27, 2011 at 17:27

Did you work for Language Link, Frank? Which city?

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 17:28

Em May 27, 2011 at 15:18
@ Troll King

I have to respectfully disagree that woman want to be abused and are immoral at birth. This is also not an argument about why man should trap themselves in marriage, it’s just my experience as a woman.

——————————————————————————–

Uh, I don’t think I said that women are born this way. But if I did then I mistyped.

I was mainly trying to put together how women seek out dark personality, dominant and even extreme dominant behavior in men, and at the same time they often create that behavior. I think this evolved.

Women sync up when around each other. When living in a tribal society many harsh things in that environment can kill off many of the men. It could be disease or it could be a rival. Ganghis Khan fathered a huge number of children and a specific Asian population is related to his genes.

Do you think the women at the time resisted him or did they lovenly bow at his feet? Do you think they saw him as attractive? Many historians will say that men raped their way across villages after the local men were killed in battle but when you look into evolutionary theories and PUA then I come to different conclusions.

We obviously can’t know for sure but I bet those women in the villages went and greeted the more manly men who returned. Even though they weren’t their husbands. I bet those women probably killed off their own offspring and then shacked up with the newer and better and more alpha and exotic warriors who came through the village.

Society is a dance between the masculine nature and the feminine nature. I think the feminine nature spurrs aggression and control and dominance in men and I think the masculine nature spurs submission and child rearing in women. When men aren’t around or have been kicked out of the house, women often times kill their own kids and then blame it on the nearest black man. When women are in charge men will go and kill other men to protect her honor and all she has to do is claim that she was raped by a black man and then a black man is hanging from a tree.

This does not mean that girls or boys are born evil. It means that when we don’t rise above our evolved animal nature then we revert back to it.

So many of us men want to see women as similiar to us. I would honestly like to think that my mom would stand infront of me and protect me from danger but as I have gotten older I have seen her treat me as a human shield from time to time.

Women have a completely different world view and it is foreign to us men. I also think they have a completely different nature. I can’t imagine harming a kid. Women do it every day.

To put it a different way. I don’t think that men are naturally dominant or aggressive or violent or what have you. I don’t think we are cold and logical as you said. I think we end up having to be that way because of the crazy women around us. In your story you say that you would be worst off if your husband hadn’t been there to control you. You kept pushing him until he finally took control of you.

I don’t know you and don’t think much of this either way but don’t you see how you were the actor or instigator in this situation? How much of that bullshit do you think he could have put up with? How much before he left or maybe smacked you? Do you really expect men to martyer themselves at the stilleto of female crazyness?

Consider for a moment that all BC does is trick your body into thinking that your are already pregnant and therefore can’t get pregnant again, so it stops your natural rythms. I have said before that I think our cultural male identities and definitions of masculinity are based around a female created construct. Look at the white feather campaign during WW2. Look at how women see men with scars as sexy. Look how women will start fights and then turn to me and say, “are you going to let him talk to me like that?”

Look at how women will make false rape claims and get men to beat up those men accused. Look at how we have a cultural meme of the crazy pregnant wife who bosses the man around. Hell, she doesn’t have to be preggar. Men buy their own beds and then their own houses and once a woman is allowed to sleep in it and take ownership of it, then she kicks the man out and puts him in the doghouse. I don’t think we would have the term “man up” if masculinity wasn’t constructed for the benefit of women by women.

Men can choose to play the game and be rewarded with pussy or not.

As far as my post went, I was trying to point that out and link various behaviors together and then show that I think one reason women hate men so much is because they can’t control us as well as they used to.

I think it is similiar to a con man being frustrated that his mark isn’t as dumb as he thought.

I don’t think a baby boy or girl is this way. I think it is bred into us through evolution. The same way that if I look at a cute puppy I don’t one day think that it will be a rabid dog. I simply think it has the potential to be that way. that is all.

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Herbal Essence May 27, 2011 at 18:10

Em- “I will agree that they want someone who will control them if needed.”

I truly appreciate your honesty. But for what earthly reason should a man have to “control” a grown adult. If I had a child, I would control him/her when need be. Not a grown woman. Especially not when my attempts to “control” could get me thrown in jail.

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TFH May 27, 2011 at 18:12

Dragnet,

Yes, but there is a more pressing concern for this country—declining economic and demographic support for the social welfare state.

Yes. But anything that speeds up that inevitable fiscal reckoning is relatively good for men.

Men working less because they have no dependents is very potent. Trading taxes paid into govt. for free time is a pretty good deal.

Once society has a captive victim (in this case, a man with a wife AND a mortgage), they can easily armtwist him into working 70-80 hours a week while piling more and more taxes on him, both official (property and income taxes) and unofficial (alimony and CS). Fortunately, this is maxing out, and the base of such enslaved men is shrinking.

But I never see this point addressed.

Women have a very poor grasp of cause and effect. I mean it. Try this out with any women at the next chance : Invent some hypothetical government policy, see if they support it, and use a Socratic method of questioning to see if they grasp the consequences of that policy. Say, universal healthcare, or welfare for single moms, or the jailing of fathers who were subject to ‘no fault’ divorce, or lack of teacher accountability in public schools.

You will, sadly, find that women are on par with 10-year-old boys in this regard. Cause and effect is just an alien concept to most women.

No society has yet demonstrated that they can withstand 100 years of women having the right to vote (which was certainly not normal within any long-term historical context). America will cross that milestone in 2019. Let’s check back on the state of America at that time.

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Laura Grace Robins May 27, 2011 at 18:29

I still think the lack of living wage jobs for men is because of women–career women.The career women are taking up the careers and good wages that traditionally went to men. Women should, if required, seek jobs–those being the traditional jobs women have always done, like secretary work and nursing.

“In today’s U.S. society, real wages have slipped- and by this I mean the entry level workers in the post-war generation made more in today’s dollars than entry level workers do now.”

I wonder if this is because not as many women were working back then or the market wasn’t over saturated.

A woman’s expectations of an engagement ring is a woman’s problem. She should be honored enough with the prospect of marriage. At the least she could swallow her sisterhood pride and accept a cheaper cz ring. They look just as real and that is what it is about, “the look” to show off, not as some sentimental token of affection/commitment.

“Once married, she will be understanding if a man loses his job (a typical situation these days) and will be willing to financially support him. ”

This is key. She needs to be supportive through such a tough time and do what she can to lessen his stress. If that includes taking a job, NOT a career, than so be it. It’s not like he wants to be in this position or is doing it in spite of her. Some would say a man is not a “real man” if his wife has to work. That’s a great way to kick a man when he’s down. The great thing about marriage is there are two to share the burden of life problems (only if the wife is willing to share). If you are single and out of work, the pressure is all that much greater. Those who have wives who insist they must stay home no matter what, are not exactly being helpmates. We are to help our husband and often that help means having to get involved in less than idea circumstances that may not jive with how we thought marriage should be or was going to be.

“Such a man has such a low level of self esteem that he lacks the ability to distinguish between either category of woman.”

That is exactly what feminists have always wanted–men with low self-esteem. They want all the esteem for themselves, so that they can go around and tell men about how they need to “man up” and get a job. Such shaming brings on a great superiority “high” rush for a modern woman

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BornFree May 27, 2011 at 18:39

I think corporate greed as much a part of the problem of male unemployment. Wages for the working class have stagnated for the past thirty years while salaries and bonuses for corporate executives have only skyrocketed.

Also consider the fact that female social structure is collective and egalitarian, all you need is one uber-bitch to run them all. (The Oprah Winfrey Effect).

Male group dynamics are by nature hierarchical. Competition is part of the framework, but is tempered with the comradeship developed through teamwork. A meeting run by a male leader will end the meeting with a confirmation that his instructions have been understood,”Does everyone understand their assigned task?” A meeting run by a female leader will ask, “Are we all in agreement?”
She must make sure that all were of one mind. Perfect for the corporate structure. They no longer want so much competition in the workplace, even though it promotes innovation. Women love stability and so do the stockholders.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
TFH May 27, 2011 at 18:40

LGR,

But if a man learns Game and gets a lot of easy sex, then he doesn’t need to earn much money. Many pick-up artists do just this – work just a little, and use their free time to get laid.

If a man chooses to work less, he loses less than women and the government (which itself exists to transfer wealth from men to women) do.

Male economic disengagement is one of the Four Horsemen that pops the misandry bubble.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 18:45
Troll King May 27, 2011 at 18:46

Oops. Meant to say that the link above is about some evolutionary aspects of how we evolved.

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Lara May 27, 2011 at 18:47

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Lara May 27, 2011 at 18:48

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Classic Joe May 27, 2011 at 18:51

“I still think the lack of living wage jobs for men is because of women”

having to compete with women takes all the energy out of men. males are forced to see females as competition from a young age and this makes them miserable. Motivation is the key.

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Lara May 27, 2011 at 18:53

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Lara May 27, 2011 at 19:15

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Jay Hammers May 27, 2011 at 19:16

Many of you seem to think the lack of marriage in the young (25-29 year old men) is due to “footloose and fancy free” young women.

Well, the number of Category 1 women vastly, vastly outweigh Category 2 women today. A woman who won’t divorce you if you stop making enough money to suit her fancy and hasn’t slept around with other men? Less than 5% of eligible women maybe?

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Em May 27, 2011 at 19:19

@ Troll King May 27, 2011 at 17:28
“Uh, I don’t think I said that women are born this way. But if I did then I mistyped.”

Or I could have misread or misinterpreted.
What I was trying to explain and perhaps didn’t do it very well, is the difference between men and women, as I see it, is an independent nature vrs a dependent nature.
Man can stand alone without a woman and get along well in society. Women on the other hand can’t. The illusion of a society safe enough for women to be independent spurred on the feminist movement. Only, those who drank the Kool-aid didn’t take into account the biological nature of women, which is physically and emotionally dependent on men for her well being.
__________________________________________________
“We obviously can’t know for sure but I bet those women in the villages went and greeted the more manly men who returned. Even though they weren’t their husbands. I bet those women probably killed off their own offspring and then shacked up with the newer and better and more alpha and exotic warriors who came through the village.”

I cannot account for what other women do, but I do know what I would do, and what I’d tell my daughters to do. I’d fight any man or group of men to my death if they wanted me after they killed my husband. I would tell my daughters to do what the men told them to do and to forgive them for killing their father so they had a chance to live. _________________________________________________
“Society is a dance between the masculine nature and the feminine nature. I think the feminine nature spurrs aggression and control and dominance in men and I think the masculine nature spurs submission and child rearing in women. When men aren’t around or have been kicked out of the house, women often times kill their own kids and then blame it on the nearest black man. When women are in charge men will go and kill other men to protect her honor and all she has to do is claim that she was raped by a black man and then a black man is hanging from a tree.
This does not mean that girls or boys are born evil. It means that when we don’t rise above our evolved animal nature then we revert back to it.”
“Women have a completely different world view and it is foreign to us men. I also think they have a completely different nature. I can’t imagine harming a kid. Women do it every day.”

I think this is why so many women are let off with the insanity defense when she kills her children. It is the only way sane people can explain the criminal behavior. I cannot, under any circumstance imagine killing my children, not even under the influence of birth control. I never wanted to kill my children. I just wanted to be sane again. There is no excuse for killing one’s children. At all. I think the women who do kill their own children need to be jailed for life and sterilized. Her mental state doesn’t matter. There is something seriously, criminally wrong with this type of woman and she deserves to be locked up.
All false accusers should be locked up as well.
__________________________________________________
“So many of us men want to see women as similiar to us. I would honestly like to think that my mom would stand infront of me and protect me from danger but as I have gotten older I have seen her treat me as a human shield from time to time.”

Women are not men. As much as men and women wish it were true, it’s just not. A woman’s body is designed to carry a child. Everyone has witnessed the over emotional pregnant woman. To a degree, those hormones (except for hCG) are always in constant flux in a woman’s body. This makes us unstable. As much as modern society wants for women to act and be just like men, it’s never going to happen. Our biology is completely different.
__________________________________________________
“To put it a different way. I don’t think that men are naturally dominant or aggressive or violent or what have you. I don’t think we are cold and logical as you said. I think we end up having to be that way because of the crazy women around us. In your story you say that you would be worst off if your husband hadn’t been there to control you. You kept pushing him until he finally took control of you.”

I put cold and logical in quotes because of how women perceive men as acting when they don’t let emotion get the better of them. I know men are far from cold, but are often more logical than woman are. My husband was never aggressive towards me, nor did he ever dominate me when I was in that state. He did take control of the situation so I was medically OK and then he took care of my mental needs. In my view my provoking him was a symptom of the problem and not an attempt to find a cure. I have never before or since provoked my husband, nor have I had the desire to. __________________________________________________
“I don’t know you and don’t think much of this either way but don’t you see how you were the actor or instigator in this situation? How much of that bullshit do you think he could have put up with? How much before he left or maybe smacked you? Do you really expect men to martyer themselves at the stilleto of female crazyness?”

No, I don’t think you should martyr yourself at the stiletto of female craziness. I was merely pointing out why it is important for people to understand why women need men. At some point society understood the inherent mental instability of women and laws were not in place to prevent men from handling the problems as they occur. Now, all laws in regards to male/female relationships allows for such behavior and mental disturbances to rule. In effect, the inmates are now ruling the asylum.
__________________________________________________
“Consider for a moment that all BC does is trick your body into thinking that your are already pregnant and therefore can’t get pregnant again, so it stops your natural rythms. I have said before that I think our cultural male identities and definitions of masculinity are based around a female created construct. Look at the white feather campaign during WW2. Look at how women see men with scars as sexy. Look how women will start fights and then turn to me and say, “are you going to let him talk to me like that?””

Female identity is as much wrapped up in male identity as it is in the reverse. In trying to make female and male the same, it has harmed both man and woman. The state of society at large is proof of it. Men and women need each other to produce a healthy next generation. Each has their own role in creating the next generation. Women were allowed by men and women both, to go beyond what they should have been allowed to do, and we all suffer because of it.
__________________________________________________
“Look at how women will make false rape claims and get men to beat up those men accused. Look at how we have a cultural meme of the crazy pregnant wife who bosses the man around. Hell, she doesn’t have to be preggar. Men buy their own beds and then their own houses and once a woman is allowed to sleep in it and take ownership of it, then she kicks the man out and puts him in the doghouse. I don’t think we would have the term “man up” if masculinity wasn’t constructed for the benefit of women by women.
Men can choose to play the game and be rewarded with pussy or not.”

Women have been allowed to do these things because both man and woman allowed for it. Again, this is yet another example of the inmates ruling the asylum. I am not saying women are crazy, but the same effect would happen if children were allowed to rule the world, and other such nonsense. Societies for thousands of years didn’t allow for their woman to control them. Now, suddenly, for the last fifty years we’ve allowed woman to gain control of everything. We see and feel the effects daily. Well all know the resulting society is not good, but there appears to be no way to put the genie back in the bottle.
_________________________________________________
“As far as my post went, I was trying to point that out and link various behaviors together and then show that I think one reason women hate men so much is because they can’t control us as well as they used to.
I think it is similiar to a con man being frustrated that his mark isn’t as dumb as he thought.”

I don’t think women ever controlled men the way men think we did, and I know women were never oppressed the way we are taught they were. The sexes interacted in the way more natural to each other in a complementary way until society got to the point it provided a false sense of security that allowed for women to come out of the cave, so to speak. It was at that point feminism latched it fangs into society, creating a society where men are actively and willfully oppressed.
_______________________________________________
“I don’t think a baby boy or girl is this way. I think it is bred into us through evolution. The same way that if I look at a cute puppy I don’t one day think that it will be a rabid dog. I simply think it has the potential to be that way. that is all.”

Rabies is a fatal, but preventable disease. It’s not something bred into an animal by evolution. It is much the same thing that happens to men and women every day as they are exposed to Western society. It is a disease if left unchecked, will turn fatal.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 7
Em May 27, 2011 at 20:45

@ Herbal Essence May 27, 2011 at 18:10
I truly appreciate your honesty. But for what earthly reason should a man have to “control” a grown adult. If I had a child, I would control him/her when need be. Not a grown woman. Especially not when my attempts to “control” could get me thrown in jail.
________________________________________
This is a point where it’s difficult to explain in a way men will understand, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. There are things about men I freely admit I will never understand. You are still operating under the misconception men and woman are the same. We are not. Get that feminist BS out of your head. What I was trying to illustrate is that in the past men were given the right, by society, to control their wife. Then along comes feminism and makes that right criminal and allows a woman’s constantly in flux hormones to rule the society.

The only way I can adequately explain what a body goes through while pregnant is its like being taken over by another being. You don’t think the same, you don’t act the same, hell you don’t even smell the same. Your body does all these weird things. Hair grows in places it never grew before, you get bizarre skin pigmentation in odd places, and not to mention the influx of hormones your body never had to deal with before (hCG), and we all know the role hormones plays with a person’s emotions. These hormones aren’t magically tucked away in a tiny little box before pregnancy nor do they go back to that magic little box after pregnancy. They are in a constant state of flux from one cycle to the next. Why do you think old women are usually so mellow and easy to get along with? Because her hormones are no longer making her nuts.

I am in no way saying a woman should not be held accountable for her actions, because that’s not what I am about.

I think all women should be held accountable for her actions despite whatever new syndrome can be dreamed up to explain her bad behavior away—and PMS should never be allowed to be used as a defense.

What I am saying is that women behave irrationally at times and she is not always in control of those reactions or the reasons for them. Medications, illnesses, diet, stress, all of these things plus many others play a huge role on her emotional health. It’s why the women’s movement pushes so hard for the understanding of these abrupt outbursts and wants to force all men to deal with them nicely, because a woman can’t always control it.

F*** that!

If I’m behaving like a b*itch, someone damn well needs to tell me, because I may not always realize I am doing it. Not all emotions are valid all the time. It’s a fact. That is probably where women come up with men being cold and emotionless. It’s not that you don’t have emotions; it’s that you have an easier time controlling yours and expect us to be able to do the same. Women get all tied up in them and sometimes need help putting the break on. 99% of the time I am a happy, stable person, the other 1% I need someone to nudge me and tell me I am acting like an idiot. Men are no different. They can all most definitely have their a$$hole moments, but instead of the wife having to control it, society does. Only now it’s gone too far. There is no control of women so the 1% of the time for most people as turned into 99% of the time for a majority of woman and men are over controlled to the point they aren’t allowed a fraction of a percent of having a bad moment.

In the past, something most men and women tend to forget, when a woman was out of control, it was her husband who controlled her, and if he didn’t, he went to jail for her crimes if any were committed. Why weren’t women expected to control their husbands? She wasn’t physically able to do so. She had a father, father-in-law, brothers, brothers-in-law, and any number of male relatives and community members to help her. These male relatives assured two things, 1) she wasn’t lying about it and 2) if it was happening (whatever it was), it stopped.

A woman answered to her husband, and her husband answered to society.

Now women answer to no one, and the man still has to answer to society.

In contrast to my issue, when my sister’s husband was strung out on drugs and the situation became dangerous for her and her son, she relied on our father and the other male members of our family to deal with him. In going to my father for help she circumvented the entire legal system. The male members of the family gave him the ultimatum of getting his act together or they were going to turn him in. He got his act together and there was no having to deal with the entire legal system. He’s been two years sober and as far as I can tell, they are doing well.

And yes, I do come from a very traditional-like family. Divorce is not tolerated. Period, so we had better work it out if we want to be happy.

And now I am in babble mode. I know what I am trying to explain, but I am not sure I am conveying it the proper way, so I am just going to stop.

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frank May 27, 2011 at 20:51

Tim May 27, 2011 at 17:27
Did you work for Language Link, Frank? Which city?

Tim I worked out of Sterlitamak, Bashkortostan did you work for Language Link in Russia? Where?

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greyghost May 27, 2011 at 21:16

EM your understanding and acceptance of yourself is very interesting. I bet with out knowing you that you feel acually happy about your life than 99% of all women. I have also learned a lot more about the dynamics of my own wife. There are things about my wife that you and troll king have touched upon that match up very well with my relationship with the Mrs.
I’m in the process of discovering and trying to teach my wife and daughters the concepts and ideas and way of living for a woman that you have discribed.

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anon May 27, 2011 at 21:36

@sestamibi

“Did hard times prevent the Jews from forming families? I guess the fact that the Jews are still around shows that isn’t the case.”

If our current reproductive habits continue on much longer that might indeed yet be the case.

Blame assimilation. On average, Jewish women, the bearers of Jewish relgion and culture, tend to marry 3-5 years later than exogamous Jewish men and their gentile wives. That suggests that Jewish women marry, often out of the faith, only after giving up on the idea of marrying Jewish men, over half of whom marry out. If you want to prevent Jews from dying out, persuade your brothers to marry Jewish women. I assume that your wife is Jewish. Otherwise, you have no cause to talk.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 22:19

Lara May 27, 2011 at 18:47
I don’t know why men allow themselves to be intimidated by women who make more money than they do. They’re are still only women.

Like or Dislike: 3 4

Lara May 27, 2011 at 18:48
The two highest earning women I know are total headcases.

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Lara May 27, 2011 at 18:53
“That is exactly what feminists have always wanted–men with low self-esteem.”

Those are the only men that women can really control.

Like or Dislike: 2 1

Lara May 27, 2011 at 19:15
Actually if I like a man I will subtly put him down to keep his self esteem from getting too high.

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—————————————————————————————–

Lololololololzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

o.O

I just don’t know what to say. Lara is just too funny sometimes.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 22:40

EM…I gotta say that you are definately a interesting and intelligent woman. Be careful saying those things, mantits and his feminists might lynch you or something.

Your posts are definately interesting. I can’t really add or subtract much.

I would point out that men don’t seem to be getting much out of this bargain or arrangement. You get to be the trailer and we get to be the tractor that pulls you. We get to be the horse and you get to ride us. We are the night and you are the princess and your mind or actions are the dragons that need slaying….IDK.

Maybe there was a point in time where men were rewarded or gained something by taking the independent role, I would use dominant but these words are vague in the sense that I see aggression as being assertiveness while others see it as violence, and women taking the dependent role.

I can definately understand what women gain, they get to be taken care of when in need or when they just feel like it. What do men gain by being the whipping boy or the human shield or the walking wallet or the beast of burden and so on????

One anthropological concept I came upon awhile back is the idea that Patriarchy originated as a equalizing element between the sexes. Women have a biological privilege and a social privilege and patriarchy mimicked that by giving men paternity over children and social outlets to prize fatherhood.

At one point in time fatherhood was the highest status that a common man could attain. And to note, I do not mean feminist patriarchy theory but the anthropological sense of the word.

But then again, look at what you wrote. It is true that men could be sent to jail for the crimes their wives committed. That doesn’t sound like much in the way of social privilege or status or rights. I am not convinced that society has ever allowed men to have any real power. Even the men at the top were there because of the women in one way or another.

I think women have always manipulated men in some form or another. Maybe not every woman in every instance but then again, I wouldn’t put it past women. I do like how you are truthful but lies aren’t the only tool of manipulation. Hell, the best lies are full of truths and half truths.

Any ways, what do men get out of this bargain again? Even historically speaking, what do they get out of it?

I think it was schopenhauer who said, ” when a man marries he loses half his freedoms and gains twice the responsibilities.” Or something to that effect.

What is the point of all of this again? I can understand how men should, if burdened with the care of women, have the ability to actually care for women….I can understand that. I just don’t see how being burdened with a woman is worth the burden of her care either. It especially seems dangerous today to think how men have nothing but obligations while women have nothing but rights and privileges.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 22:54

In 1814, Schopenhauer began his seminal work The World as Will and Representation (Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung). He would finish it in 1818 and publish it the following year. In Dresden in 1819, Schopenhauer fathered an illegitimate child who was born and died the same year.[7][8] In 1820, Schopenhauer became a lecturer at the University of Berlin. He scheduled his lectures to coincide with those of the famous philosopher G. W. F. Hegel, whom Schopenhauer described as a “clumsy charlatan”.[9] However, only five students turned up to Schopenhauer’s lectures, and he dropped out of academia. A late essay, “On University Philosophy”, expressed his resentment towards university philosophy.

While in Berlin, Schopenhauer was named as a defendant in an action at law initiated by a woman named Caroline Marquet.[10] She asked for damages, alleging that Schopenhauer had pushed her. According to Schopenhauer’s court testimony, she deliberately annoyed him by raising her voice while standing right outside his door.[11] Marquet alleged that the philosopher had assaulted and battered her after she refused to leave his doorway. Her companion testified that she saw Marquet prostrate outside his apartment. Because Marquet won the lawsuit, he made payments to her for the next twenty years.[12] When she died, he wrote on a copy of her death certificate, Obit anus, abit onus (“The old woman dies, the burden flies”).[13]

In 1821, he fell in love with nineteen-year old opera singer, Caroline Richter (called Medon), and had a relationship with her for several years. He discarded marriage plans, however, writing, “Marrying means to halve one’s rights and double one’s duties”, and “Marrying means, to grasp blindfolded into a sack hoping to find out an eel out of an assembly of snakes.” When he was forty-three years old, seventeen-year old Flora Weiss recorded rejecting him in her diary.[14]

Schopenhauer had a notably strained relationship with his mother Johanna Schopenhauer. After his father’s death, Arthur Schopenhauer endured two long years of drudgery as a merchant, in honor of his dead father. Afterward, his mother retired to Weimar, and Arthur Schopenhauer dedicated himself wholly to studies in the gymnasium of Gotha. After he left it in disgust after seeing one of the masters lampooned, he went to live with his mother. But by that time she had already opened her infamous salon, and Arthur was not compatible with the vain, ceremonious ways of the salon. He was also disgusted by the ease with which Johanna Schopenhauer had forgotten his father’s memory. Therefore, he gave university life a shot. There, he wrote his first book, On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason. She informed him that the book was incomprehensible and it was unlikely that anyone would ever buy a copy. In a fit of temper Arthur Schopenhauer told her that his work would be read long after the rubbish she wrote would have been totally forgotten.[15][

From the wikipedia page on him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 23:32

Damn, look at this. Really, go and read the wiki page on schopenhauer. There are feminist footprints all over it and I am seeing some stuff for the first time. I am a philosophy major and I have had professors talk about some of the misogyny in classes before, we never studied that stuff though and all this was before I had my eyes opened to the MRM. Now, maybe I did study some of it and spent that semester drinking, or coasting by through bullshitting in my essays. Most of the classes I have taken revolve around ethics and don’t have as much to do with historical philosophy but I have taken much of it too and I haven’t seen this quote by Plato….we literally never covered it in the few classes we talked about him.. Hell, I only knew about Schopenhauers views on women because the time or two we talked about him it was pointed out that he was a misogynist and used to disparage his ideas. In almost every ethics like we talk about kant or hegel and so on. In critical thinking based classes, like metaphysics, we talk about descarte or wittenstein but never him….hmmmm.

Maybe it was my fault for not studying deep enough into the texts and books or maybe we did talk about it and I skipped that day or don’t remember….Then again, there are so many feminists in philosophy at my university. You might as well call it women’s studies lite. I was actually looking at maybe taking a philosophy of feminism class at one point in time but then I changed my mind and took philosophy of science because it sounded cooler and I went to the class a handful of times and it was about nothing more than talking about how science isn’t real and how it is male dominated and how it is oppressive because it uses male language and I dropped the class. At the time I thought it would be about science, even with some critique about corpusculor theory or maybe some critique about women scientists who were overlooked or oppressed. Keep in mind this was before I got into the MRM and started asking some of these questions myself.

Come to think of it, I spent the that semester and the next trolling around on feminist sites and getting banned time and again and then I came up with my screen name a year later when I made my first post on the spearhead. Hmmm.

I might actually take that philosophy of feminism class, just to troll it. I only need 9 credits, or three classes to graduate and I am planning on taking a few more classes to do a double major in anthro to bring up my gpa and get a better foundation in it. Hmmm.

Views on womenIn Schopenhauer’s 1851[33] essay “Of Women” (“Über die Weiber”, full text), he expressed his opposition to what he called “Teutonico-Christian stupidity” on female affairs. He claimed that “woman is by nature meant to obey”, and opposed Schiller’s poem in honor of women, “Würde der Frauen” (“Dignity of Women”). The essay does give two compliments, however: that “women are decidedly more sober in their judgment than [men] are” and are more sympathetic to the suffering of others. However, the latter was discounted as weakness rather than humanitarian virtue.

Schopenhauer’s controversial writings have influenced many, from Friedrich Nietzsche to nineteenth-century feminists.[34] Schopenhauer’s biological analysis of the difference between the sexes, and their separate roles in the struggle for survival and reproduction, anticipates some of the claims that were later ventured by sociobiologists and evolutionary psychologists in the twentieth century.[citation needed]

After the elderly Schopenhauer sat for a sculpture portrait by Elisabet Ney, he told Richard Wagner’s friend Malwida von Meysenbug, “I have not yet spoken my last word about women. I believe that if a woman succeeds in withdrawing from the mass, or rather raising herself above the mass, she grows ceaselessly and more than a man.”[35]

[edit] Heredity and eugenicsSchopenhauer believed that a person inherits one’s level of intellect through one’s mother, and personal character through one’s father.[36] Schopenhauer quotes Horace’s saying, “From the brave and good are the brave descended” (Odes, iv, 4, 29) and Shakespeare’s line from Cymbeline, “Cowards father cowards, and base things sire base” (IV, 2) to reinforce his hereditarian argument.[37] On the question of eugenics, Schopenhauer wrote:

With our knowledge of the complete unalterability both of character and of mental faculties, we are led to the view that a real and thorough improvement of the human race might be reached not so much from outside as from within, not so much by theory and instruction as rather by the path of generation. Plato had something of the kind in mind when, in the fifth book of his Republic, he explained his plan for increasing and improving his warrior caste. If we could castrate all scoundrels and stick all stupid geese in a convent, and give men of noble character a whole harem, and procure men, and indeed thorough men, for all girls of intellect and understanding, then a generation would soon arise which would produce a better age than that of Pericles.[38]

So he might have been, citation needed, the founder of evo psych and sociobiology? I do find it interesting how he thought intelligence was given through mothers. There is a lot of genetics that shows boys inherit things through their mothers because they inherit it from their fathers.

There is atleast a correlation with baldness, which is inherited by sons from their mothers father, and intelligence. Some have said that it is based on social constructs of bald men being seen as more intelligent and nerdy but I would go with the biochemical and physical properties that make up the human machine. Our brains are computers. Computers have heat sinks.

I think hair is a biological heat sink. The greater the surface area the faster heat disperses. Think about it. Everywhere you have higher levels of heat, due to greater blood flow and movement which creates friction which then creates heat and the need to insulate from temperature fluxes, you have higher levels of body hair. You lose more heat from the top of your head for example and this is due to so much blood and electricity flowing through your head. So if you need less hair that might reason that you have a more efficient cooling or processing center. Or maybe you are just dumber, lolz.

IDK, just a thought that crossed my mind.

I do find platos quote fascinating.

Here is a link to the wikipedia entry on Harem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

Think about it in terms of how much power men had in societies and how women are herd based social creatures. In many eastern and african societies women controlled the home and men worked in the uncivilized and harsh world. Basically, men then build their civilization to their standards and women got jealous and created feminism and then took over the male space while keeping their Haraam or female space and then it collapsed and then they built it up again and the same thing happened and then they were invaded and it collapsed and so on and so on. We are seeing the same thing happen today in the west.

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Igor Alexander May 27, 2011 at 23:39

I’d wager that while formal marriage is down, there are more common law marriages, i.e., couples living together and having children without being officially married.

I know that in the Canadian province of Quebec, for example, it’s practically unheard of nowadays for young couples to get married, yet for all practical purposes, they live as married couples.

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Troll King May 27, 2011 at 23:47

If you read through that entire wiki article on Schopenhauer it becomes obvious, to me, that the times he lived in were very similiar to ours. It talks about animal rights and the death penalty and so on. I find it fascinating because ~100 yrs later we would have nazis destroying europe and ‘undesirables/aka omegas’. The socialist nazi party gave women the right to vote and even gave them abortion and out of marriage wedlock and women were one of the primary vectors of the germanizing efforts. They literally would go up and point out jews to be killed by SS officers.

They even held banquets just yards away from some of the killing fields for the SS troops who were lining up men to be shot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/world/europe/18holocaust.html

http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_myth_of_the_fairer_sex

Notice all the “women are helpless victims and wouldn’t dare of done this on their own…damned patriarchy” type of crap. Yeah, women would never play, “lets you and him fight” now would they. Such innocent creatures.

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Igor Alexander May 28, 2011 at 00:06

“The socialist nazi party gave women the right to vote and even gave them abortion…”

Uh, no. Abortion was definitely not legal in the Third Reich. Who told you that it was?

“…and out of marriage wedlock…”

I’m not sure what you mean by this precisely, but marriage was never discouraged in Nazi Germany.

The Nazis even had social programs where the government would give recently-married couples loans to buy a house with, and would reduce the debt owed with each child that was born. I think that by the 4th child, the debt was cancelled and the couple got to keep the house.

It’s true that Nazi Germany had some policies which were a little more “progressive” in regards to women than in other Western countries, but traditional sex roles were encouraged. The Third Reich gave out medals to women for being outstanding mothers.

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Em May 28, 2011 at 00:17

@ Troll King & greyghost

First let me say thank you for your kind complements. I am going to try to explain the role of feminine as I have come to define it at this point in my life.

Since I accepted that I am a woman, and it’s wonderful to be a woman with a soft, compliant nature, I am happier than I ever imagined possible. I feel calmer, and interestingly enough, more emotionally stable. At this stage in my life I have two responsibilities. 1) Taking care of my children. 2) Taking care of my husband. It doesn’t make me less, it just makes me what I am as of this moment. I am a wife and mother, and that is a beautiful thing. My husband is happier. My children are happier. My father is confused and disturbed by my sudden and dramatic change from mostly sullen to positively cheerful most of the time, but I can tell he’s happy one of his children finally gets it.

I am actually able to feel how much my husband loves me now. I had a hard time seeing it before, but it is in everything he does from giving me money for groceries to making sure the washer and dryer are in good working order so I can do the laundry. Men give little gifts of love every day. A woman just needs to open her eyes and learn to see what he’s doing and knowing those actions means he loves her. I was playing the role of housewife and mother, but now I am in full sync with it.

His needs have always been important to me, and I am not just talking about sexual. He needs someone to help him and make his life less stressful as much as possible. That’s what I do. I lift the many little burdens of life off his shoulders so he can support the other, heavier things I can’t lift.

When I need him to understand me and not judge me because I am having an emotional time, he doesn’t berate or belittle me, he just holds me and tells me it’s going to be all ok. I believe him. No matter how difficult life can get, no matter what is thrown at us, we’ve already survived insurmountable odds together, and we’ll continue to do so as long as we are together. A foundation, no matter how strong it is, can only hold so much before crumbling without an adequate support structures to help hold everything else up. It’s my job and my pleasure as his woman to be that support structure.

When he needs someone to understand him and hold him, that’s what I do. I love him no matter what he does. I support him and help him find his way when he is lost. I am there for him when he needs a shoulder. I am the second person when he needs another set of hands. I am the person he can depend on to fight for him no matter who thinks he is guilty. I am the person who forgives all his faults, and loves him despite those faults. I am the one person in this world he can always turn to when the world throws rocks at him and I will shield him when he will let me. I stand beside him in life and I support him in everything he does. I take care of him when he’s sick or injured. I take care of his children and raise them up in a way that makes him proud. I do the business invoicing for him. I take care of the computer work he’s not good at. I make sure the bills are paid on time. I take care of everything else so the only thing he has to worry about is his work. I spend his money wisely. I never speak ill of him to anyone. I do everything I can to make his life easier. I might not be pulling the same weight he pulls, but I am pulling my own weight next to him. He’s not pulling everything on his own.

These things have been lost in Western women. It’s very difficult to find resources on exactly how to be a woman that isn’t some instruction booklet on how to be a man who can get away with wearing dresses. I freely admit I might be getting some of it wrong, and I might not understand it all as a man would, but I am not a man. I am a woman, and while I won’t completely understand things in a way men would, that doesn’t mean I can’t keep working to improve myself and be the best woman I can be.

This has been a long process and a long journey for me. There is this constant bombardment from every direction telling women and girls how we are supposed to be, which isn’t feminine. I can be strong, I can have my own opinions, my own desires, my own needs, and my own wants, but that doesn’t make me a man. An adult woman has her roles in life and in society. Those things no longer exist in Western Culture. There is no real example of how to be a woman, and what that really means. Soft and complaint does not mean door mat, it basically means a good worker. Why should it matter if I am working under a boss in some cubical all day while my children are in daycare, or if I am at home working to keep a good home while raising and schooling my children?

Right now my role is mother, house keeper, secretary, laundress, school mistress, cook, book keeper and any other word you could give for domestic duties. I have my own career goals, but those have been put on hold until after the children have grown. My husband and I agreed what was best for our family, and while the children are at home, I will be at home with them. As they grow and no longer need constant supervision, I can work more on my career goals so when they are gone, my husband won’t have to work so hard. I will contribute to the household income then, and further add to our retirement. My role as woman is to support him and make his life easier.

I can’t expect everyone to understand how it works for us, and I don’t expect anyone to approve of it or me. The only opinion that matters is my husband’s opinion.

Marriage 2.0 is a sick perversion of what marriage should be. Marriage is a partnership in the fullest sense of the word. Man has his role and woman has her role, however the couple defines those roles. That is the key point of marriage. It’s the coming together of two people to make one whole life however THEY define it. As much as I know my husband and I are happy with our arrangement, I cannot recommend it for young people with the current state of women in our society. They are sick and until they are ready and willing to seek the cure, they will remain sick. I can’t expect any man to take that on when they have no benefit from it, and can only pray they won’t get screwed over by some selfish b*tch. Marriage isn’t about what you can get from someone. It’s about what you can give to someone else.

All I can really offer here is what to possibly look for in a woman should a man feel he MUST be married. Don’t pick the girls who demand things from you. Pick the girl who appreciates wha she gets and gives back 100% of her ability. Don’t pick a girl who isn’t intelligent. Pick one who knows exactly what she is about. One who is easily swayed to change her opinion isn’t worth anything. If she knows what she wants, and understands what she is committing to you, only then, should you consider marriage. Be a man she can respect and look up too. Yeah, she might test you a little bit, but it should not be round after round of sh*t tests that continue until the end of time. She has the right to know you are a man she can depend on, just as much as you have the right to know she isn’t going to screw you into the ground, steal your money, your home and abduct your children.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 6
Igor Alexander May 28, 2011 at 01:04

“This has been a long process and a long journey for me. There is this constant bombardment from every direction telling women and girls how we are supposed to be, which isn’t feminine.”

A lot of men on these forums don’t seem to realize that feminism has been just as damaging to women as it has to men. Some of the most vicious comments I’ve heard out of feminists’ mouths over the years have been directed, not towards men, but towards women who like to assume traditional sex roles. They constantly portray such women as being stupid, servile, brainwashed, masochists, etc.

Feminists have been telling women for decades that they should be like men, implicitly suggesting that there’s something wrong with being a heterosexual woman. It’s not surprising that women who have assimilated feminist horseshit and tried to deny or suppress their feminity find themselves incapable of having a truly satisfying relationship with a man. In some circles, you’d think that for a woman to cook a meal for her man or to want to please him in bed was a sin.

I hope your post shows the guys on here that there are still some good women out there.

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Troll King May 28, 2011 at 01:35

Uh, no. Abortion was definitely not legal in the Third Reich. Who told you that it was?

It was legal before the Nazi party truly came into power and it was legal under some circumstances, like if they were knocked up or claimed to be raped by a jew or undesirable.

I definately could have phrased that better, it is late.

Women and their franchisement by the government is what lead to socialism and the nazism in germany.

Gender roles were encouraged to a degree but pretty much only on men and with the exception that women were encouraged to marry and breed with aryan men. Women could have multiple children with many different men if those men were aryan. That is what I meant by out of wedlock marriages.

They weren’t discouraged but weren’t encouraged either, especially before the war and the rise of nazi germany. Germany was a socialist country before the nazis gained power and it was largely the female vote that allowed them to gain so much power. From my research into it, the Nazi leaders knew that if they could control the women then the men would follow. Germany empowered women to a much greater degree than other western countries before the rise of nazism and I am not so sure that it would have happened, atleast not in the way it did, if it weren’t for empowering women.

The entire war was basically a money and power grab. They took the wealthier parts of society and killed and inprisoned them while stealing their wealth and then went after land and other wealth around europe. I think that a lot of it was based around eugenics and trying to create a perfect race but I also think that was propaganda to get the women to go along with it.

They had too many people to support and not enough money to support them. Some maniacs get in power and they expand state control while taking control of the state. They got rid of their political enemies and other elites who were against them and then went after those with wealth and those who were costing too much money, with the exception of german women.

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Troll King May 28, 2011 at 01:41

Want to know why men arent marrying. Which one of you guys wants to put a ring on one of these gals fingers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ihLBCbNIDbI

http://www.wpbf.com/news/15194935/detail.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2Y3W5T4zM

More to the story continued below

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Troll King May 28, 2011 at 01:43

Continued…

This gal is such a catch.

http://www.wflx.com/story/11243747/girl-scout-cookie-thief-now-faces-felony-charges

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/lawyers-judge-try-to-keep-latest-case-involving-818545.html

C’mon, what man wouldn’t line up to marry her and say to death do us part???

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Em May 28, 2011 at 02:09

I would hope no man is dumb enough to marry her.

On a side note: does anyone realize the Girl Scouts are like little feminist indoctrination camps?

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SingleDad May 28, 2011 at 02:26

@ Em

Again, thanks for posting, you are an honest person, one in a million. In my experience the government schools and the TV as feminist indoctrination portals and the police feminist enforcement agencies in 90 of what they do. Sadly, recently I have come to see that that’s what these things have become. As much as I love being a father, I am starting to come to the conclusion that the risks to me personally are greater than the good I can do for my son fighting against the stream in trying to help him succeed.

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Troll King May 28, 2011 at 02:27

I hope your post shows the guys on here that there are still some good women out there.

_____________________________

Oh cmon. I know there are some good women out there. I don’t think they make up more than about 1% of the western female population though. And out of that one percent I think most have the ability and will occasionally do the same bad things that other women do, they just won’t do it habitually. Women are flawed just like men but the difference is that it seems to be in mens character to try and better ourselves and to own up to our mistakes. Women revel in being bad. Didn’t you ever hear the song, “I’m a bitch, I’m a lover, I’m a sinner, I’m a saint…..”

That was the anthem of my youth it seems, or atleast girls around me.

Misogyny: Thinking that women are human too and expecting them to act like rational adults instead of bitches or princesses.

Igor, I just clicked on your blog link, which is your screen name, and maybe you should be schooling me or not about nazi germany.

Your most recent blog post:

“with friends like these, who needs enemies?”

To quote you:
“The holocaust is a Big Lie that was invented by jews, communists, and the leaders of the Allied nations to justify or help conceal their own atrocities, and the myth was rekindled in the latter half of the 1960s by zionist jews to drum up support for and deflect criticism of Israel. In the last 12 years, the myth of the holocaust has been invoked to justify everything from the NATO bombing of civilian passenger trains in Yugoslavia, to the hanging of Saddam Hussein as a “war criminal,” to the U.S.’s belligerent attitude toward Iran.”

Hmmmm….well well well. With friends like these indeed.

My grand dad was at the liberation of several concentration camps and it wasn’t a hoax. I found his private photos he took when I was a boy and he was long dead. Bodies and bodies piled up for as far as the camera could zoom out. I have met people who lived through it. We gave his photos to the museum in DC and they had never seen them before. With friends like these, why are we so concerned about feminists and divorce court…huh.

To be clear, since there really are many jews in the media and many more that support feminism or are feminists themselves, there is a small amount of truth in what you wrote but it is like counting 50 grains of sand on a beach.

Judaism is like christinity in many ways. There are two basic flavors. There is the hardcore traditional that tends towards the whiteknightism and protectionism of women but comes across as male oriented because it gives men a primary power slot that is actually a slave slot because the power only exists to serve and protect women. Then there is the progressive flavor, this tends to be feminist dominated. You can actually see these flavors, in judaism and christianity both, cut down political lines. In the west most jews are not like the traditionalists in Israel. With christianity you have the religious right and then you have feminist based churches with female leaders. The same is true in Judaism and it also cuts across lib and repub lines with the feminists on the left and the traditionalists on the right. Hell sometimes the christians and jews of each flavor get together for the same event to raise funds for their respective causes.

What I actually find interesting is that the same sort of thing is happening in Islam. There is the western progressive Islam and then there is the hardcore traditionalist Islam. They fall down on the same gendered and increasingly the same political based lines.

The truth is that religion exists mainly to herd women into a role that is the least destructive for society. This is why both sides are fighting for control over it, women control society and men largely follow women and men control civilization. I think the one thing that our leaders and elites didn’t count on was that when they try to wrestle control of women away from each other they thought men would follow but now men aren’t following. This leaves less and less men to be controlled. Or maybe that is what they counted on. IDK, I don’t buy into these conspiracy theories. I don’t think there are 30 guys sitting around a table and twisting their moustaches. I think it is based more around pockets of individuals and greed and human nature.

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greyghost May 28, 2011 at 02:48

Of all of the marriage is good blogs and Dear abby stuff out there. With the marriage and relationship books and couselers and psychologist and christian values messages out there. The best and most truthful comments on marriage from a woman comes from the spearhead. (Em May 28, 2011 at 00:17)

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mgtow May 28, 2011 at 03:02

The marriage strike is working exceedingly well.

More men, especially the younger ones, are waking up to the sham of modern marriage. A man gains nothing and risks everything in marriage.

Consequently, more women are left on the shelf.

And because of that, some delusional individuals would suggest that it’s the women who are delaying/rejecting marriage. Because they’re sooo empowered and liberated, and far too sophisticated for an oppressive patriarchal institution. But of course.

Fish, the bicycles have gone their own way. Continue to flop around on the ground.

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Troll King May 28, 2011 at 03:17

Em, thanks for your honest-ey reply.

It is really insightful. Don’t take this the wrong way, I would like to be able to pick your brain in the future and have more conversations on this matter because you are one of the few women out there that seems to be capable of actual self introspection. I gave your posted a thumbs up.

That said. You do realize that you proved much of what I said upstream correct don’t you?

You said that you didn’t look for dominate men but then talked about how you needed your husband to control you at times.

Then you went on about how women wouldn’t kill their kids and shack up with warriors who just killed their husbands with a sword in battle and went on to talk about how you would fight to the death after telling your daughters to do anything the barbarians wanted so they would live…..0.O

One of my points about the BDSM post was that at some point, because women are herd based creatures and even sync up their periods to compete with other women during their most fertile and hormonal times (in which you admitted that that was the time you needed a dominant man to control you the most), the “abusive” and hyper dominant alphas must have controlled the harem of women. In sociobiology they tend to talk about males competing for mates and how the victors won but this leaves out the fact that throughout most of history we had warfare where two groups of men met on a battle field with axes and clubs and swords and one group left alive. Historians like to talk about raping and pillaging villages but this makes less sense when you consider the fact that 80% of women who ever lived reproduced while only 40% of the men who ever lived reproduced. We literally have more mothers than fathers in our family tree, this sounds crazy but it is due to genetics…google “is the anything good about men” by Baumeister.

Now, if women were being raped right and left then why didn’t they just kill the men in their sleep or poison them or run off at night and give themselves abortions. We know from anthropological records that abortion was widespread and often times it took the form of infantcide. There are archeology digs where they are capable of telling that it was once a whore house because away from the main bed chambers they find burial pits full of nothing but babies. In many cultures a baby wasn’t considered a human being or fully alive until around 2 yrs of age. After that point, and it differs based on culture, the child was seen as a child and not a object….it was seen as a morally valuable life. Today in the abortion debate it really isn’t about when the child is alive or just a parasite, it is about when we as a culture consider it to be a morally valuable life form because it has cells…it is alive. Other ancient cultures didn’t draw the line at delivery but instead at other ages.

All that said, the point is that I don’t see how so many men could go and rape so many women and the women not just destroy the child or kill the new husband in their sleep. Consider how they fought. Try swinging around a axe for hours at a time and then marching miles back to your small settlement or the other settlement through a river of blood and bodies up to your knees. I doubt those men would have had the energy to rape a woman.

So, maybe they slept first. Ok. Still though. What is stopping the woman from leaving with the husbands children? Well, maybe she needs the food and protection the village offers…ok. What is stopping her from cutting his throat while he sleeps? Well…fear? Maybe she is pregnant at this point in time and needs his assistance….

There are some theories that I have heard that many tribal cultures that have burial mounds and buried bodies together didn’t do it as a religious ritual but instead did so as a easy way to dump the young and old that would have protested the child bearing aged women from shacking up with the invading army.

When I look at the evidence and try to piece it together I come away with contradictory ideas. Women have rape fantasies but in their minds they aren’t rape fantasies. They want men they can control but at the same time they desperately want to be controlled. Cultural social constructs that are found all over the world in society after society and culture after culture. How did they communicate the rules of patriarchy? Did they use smoke signals?

I see women play “lets you and him fight” all the time and I know that reading through anthropology from many different tribal cultures it only appeared that the men were in charge. For example, many cultures have chiefs and feminists will talk about this as proof of male dominance and controll and oppression but what they rarely talk about is how some of these warrior cultures also have female dominated houses and these same females are the ones who elect the chiefs and if he doesn’t do what they say then he get’s replaced. They evaluate the men based on their warrior skill and the men go off on hunts and war campaigns. Surely sometimes the men don’t come back….what happens then? Do the women cower beneath the evil guys or get horny?

I could be wrong but I don’t see how women evolved this way if atleast a majority, the ones who lived to reproduce, sought out or maybe at first were forced but then had the natural impulses ingrained in them the most dominant men. Some may say that humans would need more time for this type of trait to be ingrained into populations but that depends on many factors.

One thing I would point out is that the male human evolves faster than the female human. If you compare male y chromosomes to age Y chromosomes then there is a much greater difference than 2%. It is 30-50% depending on what elements are compared. The 2% number comes from comparing x human chromes to x ape chromes and looking at the difference.

One of the most interesting parts about this is that the fasted evolving aspect of the human Y chromosome is the part that controls sperm development.

This makes sense if you study up on sperm competition. Women will make, and so will apes, with as many different males as possible during the most fertile times and the best sperm wins the race. It is well documented.

Here is a link about the Y chromosome. There are other better ones out there.http://www.4apes.com/science/Chimp-and-Human-Y-chromosomes-evolving-f-20100115.htm

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
oddsock May 28, 2011 at 03:50

Guys. Cool your jets. The post’s by EM are simply something that is indeed quite rare and therefore quite a shock to the averge guy, especially one that is trying to get his bearings. However, although she does reveal a little more than usual it is a long long way from her being truthful. Her posts are full of what appear to be nice explanations with a hint of being less than a man. In reality they are disguised excuses and half explanations on womans true nature. She knows full well what she is doing and saying.

You see guy’s one of the main ways in which a woman so easily manipulates a man is by playing on his desire for fairness logic and honesty knowing full well that just beneath the surface of most modern men is a white knight still full of chivalry. You think she is being honest and not only do you identify with this so called honesty you grasp at it like a drowning man clutches at straws.

We are now seeing women become every increasingly daring in their behaviour and risque clothing to garner waning male attention, like wise, we will now see an increase in women who either profess to be on our side or reveal a little more about womans true nature than was previously needed. Just enough to whet your desire for inside information but no were near enough to make any real difference. That would require her to reveal her real nasty manipulative inner self to you.

That isn’t going to happen, is it EM ?

You are being played like a fiddle and EM knows it. You don’t !

Remember. There is no such thing as a dangerous woman, only gullible men !

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 6
Em May 28, 2011 at 06:28

Troll King,
I like how you say honest-ey. And thank you for the thumbs up.

I am not sure it matters if I am proving your points or not. Women are what women are. Men are what men are. We as humans are shaped as much by our biology as we are by our environment. It’s the whole nature vrs nurture thing. Both play a large role in how one specific human behaves. I am still shucking the feminist coils. Having to relearn how to think and behave is a process, and I know I am going to mess up along the way. If I am wrong about something, then I am wrong and need to readjust my thinking.

As for my honesty in trying to come to terms with the world we live in and where I fit into it, Spearhead has been eye opening. I am going to share another piece of my life, only because I think it vital for myself improvement to live as a better human being. I am honestly trying to figure things out. I can’t talk to other women about it because they see the problem being violent men. At least this place has a more solid grip on reality. If I am in total outer space about something, I trust the men here will tell me I am full of it and not pull any verbal paunches while doing it(ha! I probably just proved something there too, didn’t I?). I don’t need any White Knights. I am here to learn and hopefully contribute if I can.

I alluded to my husband being falsely accused of rape in a couple of my posts on this website, what I haven’t said is how that came to be. I am not looking for this to be woe is me, or poor Em sob story. I am just stating the facts. It was my fault. I made the call to the police to turn in criminal behavior without knowing said criminal had a relative in the police department. I’d reported to the relative. There were children involved. I thought I was doing the right thing, but in the end, I f***ed up and got my husband accused of rape. I was told point blank by one of the people involved if I would have kept my mouth shut, nothing bad would have happened and I should be happy someone didn’t end up dead. How in the hell does a person prove that? Answer: you don’t. You deal with the consequences of a bad decision and figure out how to get your loved one out of hell.

That was the beginning of my realization there was more wrong with the world than violent men and terroristic females.
_________________________________________________
@ oddsock,
I thought about having some unbecoming snide or sarcastic comeback, but it’s not needed. It only serves to cause flames where there doesn’t need to be any.

I don’t need any White Knights to come rescue me from your distrust. If you don’t trust me, don’t. If you don’t think I should be trusted, please continue to state your opinion of me. Trust should be earned and not freely given.

I speak for myself and not for all women. I don’t really have a use for most humans of my gender, at least not in this part of the world. I know what I am about and my husband knows what I am about. As I said previously, his opinion of me and my moral character is the only one that matters.
__________________________________________________
@ SingleDad & greyghost

Thank you. If I ever do have something wrong, or misguided, correct me. I won’t take offense, and will appreciate any constructive criticism.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6
Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 06:30

I believe it’s beneficial for women to be in these groups because it shows men how many women think, and what they are up against. But sometimes a man has to point that out to them.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
Anonymous May 28, 2011 at 07:02

Men of this age group have two choices if they want to get on their feet and marry. Option 1 is to borrow heavily (again) to start a business, and invest nearly 3 years of sweat equity to make it work. Option 2 is to organize and pressure the politicians in Washington to get the economy back on its feet so men can return to living wage employment. With regard to Option 2, no one in Washington seems to give a damn.

I am not going to go into details because everyone’s situation and appetite for risk differs, but there is always other ways another way to make money. And limiting yourself to X number of choices is the first way to miss those opportunities.

Personally I’ve never liked the idea of a “contract” that I don’t explicitly negotiate and agree to without a man holding a rifle standing over my shoulder, but if there is or ever was such a thing as a social contract it’s clearly been broken by those in power in the West. But I am not sure if they fully understand that there being no social contract works both ways and “no more rules” means exactly what it says. I do.

Quoting one of my favorite fictional yet ruthlessly logical existential sociopaths, “If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
simply orange May 28, 2011 at 07:11

Men of this age group have two choices if they want to get on their feet and marry. Option 1 is to borrow heavily (again) to start a business, and invest nearly 3 years of sweat equity to make it work. Option 2 is to organize and pressure the politicians in Washington to get the economy back on its feet so men can return to living wage employment. With regard to Option 2, no one in Washington seems to give a damn.

I am not going to go into details because everyone’s situation and appetite for risk differs, but there is always other ways another way to make money. And limiting yourself to X number of choices is the first way to miss those opportunities.

Personally I’ve never liked the idea of a “contract” that I don’t explicitly negotiate and agree to without a man holding a rifle standing over my shoulder, but if there is or ever was such a thing as a social contract it’s clearly been broken by those in power in the West. But I am not sure if they fully understand that there being no social contract works both ways and “no more rules” means exactly what it says. I do.

Quoting one of my favorite fictional yet ruthlessly logical existential sociopaths, “If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
oddsock May 28, 2011 at 07:27

Good grief ?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
Nick S May 28, 2011 at 07:37

I tend to agree that a lot of the decline in marriage among younger men is due to economic factors (or men not being seen as viable), rather than men avoiding marriage due to family law and the like being against men.

Despite the fact that marriage nowadays is clearly a crap deal for men, a lot of men still want to have families and relationships with women. Partly this is due to social pressure. It is almost always the case, in most societies and most periods of time, that men who do not have families or provide for women and children have little status or respect, and are invariably seen as useless bums and shirkers. This social pressure is still there, even if it is not as great as in the past. (I have had older friends who have been royally screwed over by women tell me “hey, you should be married by your age”. It is as if they are saying ‘hey, no fair! I slit my throat. You should too!’).

A lot of men also still want marriage and families because they feel it is their only source of warmth and intimacy, given that men often have few close friends and poorer support networks than women. (Another insidious side-effect of feminism as male-only organizations were forced to disband or admit women). It seems that women today have become little more than emotional parasites. The only way they can keep men on the hook is by keeping men psychologically conditioned to the idea that they need women more than they really do, while offering no real incentives for men to actually commit.

The truth is that the social and emotional pressure on men to commit to women is still strong, and often strong enough to overcome the disincentives posed by our current policies. And most people don’t really have the strength of character to go against the flow.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 07:45

RE: Lara

Strong or humorous rebuttal with reason is one thing, mockery is quite another. Especially when the recipient is unwilling or unable to respond.

Up or down votes are sufficient.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
zed May 28, 2011 at 08:33

Actually if I like a man I will subtly put him down to keep his self esteem from getting too high.

With “friends” like that, who needs enemas?

The way you react to “liking” someone is to tear them down? That comment by itself could explain why marriage rates are dropping.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 0
Anonymous age 69 May 28, 2011 at 08:48

Manumission Day for me was May 10, 1973. My ex- best friend told me once my ex- told her the reason she didn’t respect me is because I wouldn’t hit her. No joke. And, she wasn’t a natural born American citizen.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Anonymous age 69 May 28, 2011 at 08:52

>>Lara May 27, 2011 at 19:15
Actually if I like a man I will subtly put him down to keep his self esteem from getting too high.

Thanks, Lara. Some of here belong to the Don’t Marry groups, and we can use all the help we can get. Good job.

By the way, we are well aware fiends like you do that. We see it all the time.

Let me tell you about excess self-esteem. The biggest culture shock when I moved to Mexico was having a 14 year old girl fall in love with me. Followed by once or twice a year being hit upon by a 20 something. And, worst of all was 2010 when a 22 year old cutie, married with 2 kids, flirted with me all year.

But, your childish shaming language doesn’t work. If it did, I would be cured when that hot chick attempted to breast feed her baby that she knew wasn’t hungry.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1
Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 08:54

You know I meant it’s better to just vote, than to mock.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
zed May 28, 2011 at 09:44

When he needs someone to understand him and hold him, that’s what I do. I love him no matter what he does.

I support him and help him …

I am there for him when he needs …

These things have been lost in Western women.

Yes, they have been lost.

Igor Alexander: “I hope your post shows the guys on here that there are still some good women out there.”

The argument never has been about whether “there are still some good women out there” or about whether “all women are like that” or not. That particular straw man is so full of manure that everyone would benefit if we just threw it on the compost pile and moved on.

Even if Em is exactly as she says she is, she is married and therefore off the market as far as any other man is concerned. I know that there are “winning lottery tickets out there”, but that knowledge does not affect my day to day life in the slightest. I am certainly not going to cash in 50%-90% of my entire net worth and buy lottery tickets hoping that I will get a “good one.”

Lurking vaguely around behind most of the perpetual circular arguments is the notion that men are supposed to rescue women from themselves or from feminism. Men are supposed to somehow magically control women – but only when those women want to be controlled.

What comes across is the vague sense that most people – men as well as women, but particularly women – view men as nothing more than a convenient appliance to meet whatever needs a woman has at any moment in time, and be able to somehow magically know what those needs are regardless of what she says.

So, we have to pose the question – what would motivate a man to do this? As things stand today, the motivation pretty much boils down to sex. I work for a woman in her late 50s, who got re-married a few years ago after spending close to 30 years single. In the vast majority of her conversations that do not have to do entirely with work, she will make references to men not doing exactly what their wives want them to do, and finish it off with “Well, we know he isn’t getting any tonight.”

A married woman simply cannot come on a board like this and try to prove that “there are still good women out there” without seeming to be paradoxically self-serving – pimping for team woman even though she is off the market. Oh, so there is a good woman out there, but not really out there in any sense which would matter to me because she is already married to another man.

What EM highlights that Western women have lost accounts for about 90% of their mate value. Instead of tearing him down when she likes him, she supports him, values him, (gasp) actually communicates to him that she likes him and what he does for her.

Great – 2 gold stars for Em. ‘Scuse me, though, I have to take out the garbage. And after that, I have some paint that I need to watch dry.

I have noticed a very significant trend of married women coming on to men’s boards, playing the elusive “Good Wife” and seeming very earnest in trying to convince men to keep sticking their necks in the noose, because women and society need it. What I never see them doing is going to where the pathology is breeding and spending the same amount of energy they are now spending – trying to convince men to “man up” and rescue women and society – on trying to convince women that they need to try to find what women have lost as a result of feminism.

When I compare all the totally ghastly marriages I know of in my personal experience to the glowing tales of wonderful marriages spun by married women and marriage advocates, my reaction is a bit like reading a book about some other time and some other place – interesting in an academic sense, but not really relevant to my life.

I don’t think that men can rescue women from themselves in the first place – unless those women want be rescued, which most don’t seem to – and I’m way past the stage where I think so little of myself that I would be willing to throw myself on a hand grenade in order to save other people who don’t give a shit about me.

I think for the foreseeable future that it will be “children first, after that it is every man and woman for him or her self.” The sistahs can do it for themselves, and so can the brothas – and men have centuries of head start in having to fend for themselves.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 1
Gendeau May 28, 2011 at 10:27

Thank you Zed, that was a fucking excellant summary of where I am at the moment.

AFAICS my difference from some others here, is that I am willing to believe that NAWALT.

BUT

That makes NO difference to the fact that I will NOT bet everything that I have on “this woman is different”.

Never make your happiness reliant on someone else being happy – you will be used. Particularly, but not only, by women (society raised them to do this).

Marriage is for suckers, putting your happiness on a woman being happy is for suckers; don’t get married, do what YOU want.

Until society offers a square, just deal, mean should go their own way

MGTOW

Society should get what it earns, anything more is for Manginas and White Knights (the fecking morons)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
MobilePT May 28, 2011 at 11:22

@zed: “and finish it off with “Well, we know he isn’t getting any tonight.”

I’ve always found this to be a curious thing for a wife to say, since all she can really assert is that he isn’t getting any from HER that night. The wedding vow is one of monogamy, not chastity, and when a wife attempts to punish her husband by withholding sex, it is a repudiation of her wedding vow to “have and hold” him. While there may be practical reasons for him not to go hire a prostitute, get a massage, or bang the single soccer mom down the street, I wouldn’t condemn him if he did. After all, he took a vow of monogamy, not chastity.

This reminds me of a dinner party I was at years and years ago. For me, it was a first date with a woman I wasn’t really into. One wife started running down her husband because he had gone bald- telling bald jokes and such, and another started running down her husband because he “couldn’t get it up anymore”. I’m sure most of us are familiar at how American wives do this- it takes on the atmosphere of a contest- to see who can disparage their husband the most.

Their husbands sat there squirming, looking down and grinding their teeth. I looked right at the second woman and replied:

“Actually, all you really know is that he can’t get it up for YOU anymore.”- with a big, fat smile on my face.

Love the lottery ticket analogy. I’ll be using that in my conversations with men who might be considering marriage.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
Quartermain May 28, 2011 at 11:22

I’m going to be voted down for this but what the hey…

I’ve enjoyed the exchange between Em and Troll King.

Troll King, is your blog still up?

If marriage 1.0 like the one my parents and grand parents had was not only possible but probable, I would marry. Since it’s very unlikely, I will do like I have for the last 25-30 years and go my own way.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Timothy May 28, 2011 at 11:43

“You give the feminists way way too much credit. They are nothing but useful idiots of the elite. That much is quite plain for all to see.”

Exactly. Women might think they have won, but with men largely out of the way the elites are now turning children against them. Women will realize they have been had, and we will watch from the sidelines as now the very same power they used on us is now being used on them.

Karma’s a bitch.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Hydroxide May 28, 2011 at 12:01

An entitlement complex is a typical characteristic of American women. That’s why some of us refuse to marry them or even associate with them at all. The story about the Girl Scout money thieves is a great example of this.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
Gendeau May 28, 2011 at 12:01

Quartermain

“If marriage 1.0 like the one my parents and grand parents had was not only possible but probable, I would marry. Since it’s very unlikely, I will do like I have for the last 25-30 years and go my own way.”

Why would you expect to be down-voted?

If the yoke of marriage v1.0 suits you (it no longer exists, but for the sake of argument) – fine. Work your nuts off for a loyal-ish woman – as a man, you used to have that choice.

As long as a man faces reality, I don’t mind what he does with himself.
If a man refuses reality (socon, tradcon, wk, mangina) and goes his own way – that’s fine too.

Just don’t tell other men to marry under v2.0. (and you didn’t – I realise that)

You do what you want, I’m happy as long as no other man ends up under the bus.

If a woman chooses to throw herself under the man-hate bus, I could care less. Women need to man-up and sort themselves out – women self damaging themselves is their issue.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
Legion May 28, 2011 at 12:20

Troll King, you are nailing it. Maybe put all these together for an article. (Even your less than sober observations.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Quartermain May 28, 2011 at 12:49

Gendeau

Actually I expected to down voted for saying I enjoyed the exchange between Troll King and Em.

I’m a half century old now and never been married. Other than family I don’t talk or interact with women unless I really have to except if they have something interesting to say (which is rare).

I live in the American mid west, (flyover country) and the conditions of young working men have been going on for decades. The same with the attitudes of modern women. Since my 30′s, I’ve come to the conclusion that very, very, very few modern western women have any thing to offer the modern western man.

The sad thing is many men think it’s their fault. I wouldn’t want to throw another man under the bus, but I would get a sadistic delight out of seeing the mangina’s and the fem’s white knight enablers reap what they sow.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
Eric May 28, 2011 at 12:49

I think economics play a part in it, but doubt this the entire reason. In the past, men and women married in even more difficult economic times than ours. Many of the poorest countries have the highest birth rates.

The reason for this marriage decline is in the attitudes of American women, No decent man wants anything to do with them; and they generally don’t seem at all interested in decent men anyway. For the past three US census decades, the only marriage demographic that’s actually been increasing is between American men and foreign-born women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
Angelguy May 28, 2011 at 13:07

“Despite the fact that marriage nowadays is clearly a crap deal for men, a lot of men still want to have families and relationships with women. Partly this is due to social pressure. It is almost always the case, in most societies and most periods of time, that men who do not have families or provide for women and children have little status or respect, and are invariably seen as useless bums and shirkers. This social pressure is still there, even if it is not as great as in the past. (I have had older friends who have been royally screwed over by women tell me “hey, you should be married by your age”. It is as if they are saying ‘hey, no fair! I slit my throat. You should too!’).”

I can relate to the social pressure.
I am 40 years old, never been married and live on my own.
I have a condo to myself, with a mortgage, which I worked very hard to earn. The modern job market made it more difficult for me to get where I am today. Despite a college degree, I was unable to get work in my field. But, I managed to find work somewhere else, and made the most of it. Granted, I am not where I want to be, but it doesn’t mean that I’ve lost hope.

The problem with women in my age group is that most are already married, single moms, or single because they have issues.
With the divorce laws being the way they are, a small dating pool of choices, and women filled with spoiled entitlement expectations, it is very hard to not be cynical about marriage.

Ladies need to “Wom-down” their expectations because a man’s salary doesn’t go as far as it used to. Today, I am home on a saturday, not going out too much because I have bills to pay. I am not a big spender, but there is this expectation of a single guy to be “swinging it”.
What people forget is because it is only “me”, I have to be responsible for myself and myself alone. To ask a woman out, regardless if you are serious or casual does require money. Lets face it, very rare does a woman ask a man out, let alone pay her own way.
Not that I ever did have a problem with paying on the first date, but this is 2011, not 1911. Last I heard, women were rolling in the big money now.

I hate that stigma of a man who is alone and not married looked upon with suspicion and pity from married people. Just because you(married people) are a slave to your spouse, doesn’t give you the right to judge my lifestyle.
I feel for the guys that have gotten divorced, it scares me to think how much a woman changes after marriage.

So women can’t blame a guy for not wanting to get married.
At least, hookers are honest.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Gendeau May 28, 2011 at 13:52

Quartermain,

oops sorry. Still, no harm done.

I’m not that far behind you in age, was married once (for a short while, divorce not that expensive).

You haven’t missed much…

WE have both been lucky in comparison to many here.

I enjoyed the exchange too (FWIW)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Gendeau May 28, 2011 at 13:56

“At least, hookers are honest.”

In the olden days, I think I’d have said that shagging hookers was an emotion free, deluxe masturbation session.

I still would, I’d just add that it was just like hook-up culture (with clearer financial arrangements).

How depressing is that? And I’m a male asking the question…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Gendeau May 28, 2011 at 14:06

Thank you Zed, that was a fucking excellant summary of where I am at the moment.

AFAICS my difference from some others here, is that I am willing to believe that NAWALT.

BUT

That makes NO difference to the fact that I will NOT bet everything that I have on “this woman is different”.

Never make your happiness reliant on someone else being happy – you will be used. Particularly, but not only, by women (society raised them to do this).

Marriage is for suckers, putting your happiness on a woman being happy is for suckers; don’t get married, do what YOU want.

Until society offers a square, just deal, MEN should go their own way

MGTOW

Society should get what it earns, anything more is for Manginas and White Knights (the fecking morons)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
greyghost May 28, 2011 at 14:27

zed May 28, 2011 at 09:44 Your comment here was needed along with oddsock’s to place the appreciation of Em in context. She is one woman of 100′s of million and she is still a woman and she knows and I know that she ILT ( “is like that”) that is normal for a woman. Her comments here have given her positive feed back and conversation from men. She is getting attention from the men of the spearhead. Just as rainbows and lollipops and Lara. She is a woman it is normal and what is not normal by todays standards (and maybe yesterday’s too) she seems to be aware and works at not being the burden that women are. This behavior (showing appreciation and love to the source of her well being, her man and her children) on her part gets her what she needs and what she wants. If that is some bitch being a manipulive cunt, well I’ll take it, because that is the best you can get and the best a woman has. The comment by oddsock May 28, 2011 at 03:50 well that is a “no shit man” You got a thumbs up from me because it is about the concept of game. Game is female sexual psychology for the purpose of getting sex. It uses the AWALT that is all women and directs their selfish behavior into fucking you and liking it regaurdless of the front she is putting up. As Zed stated about the lottery tickets Em’s selfish needs are met as she discribed. But you can bet your ass that “all women are like that” and as said before I’ll take it. We as men have a long way to go changing the the behavior of women and that is the best we can do. All of the logic and reason is stupid and senseless because it is an attempt to change the nature of women. That is the number one reason the MRM gets no traction. The PUA are actually showing us the way waht makes them unappealing to us is the end goal they have chosen is not what the men here are after.

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greyghost May 28, 2011 at 15:01

Quartermain said
The sad thing is many men think it’s their fault. I wouldn’t want to throw another man under the bus, but I would get a sadistic delight out of seeing the mangina’s and the fem’s white knight enablers reap what they sow.

Hell yeah I want that. the best way i know to see that is MGTOW. A good example of the power and “right course of action MGTOW is to see a guy that is pro marriage and family and is in the same boat as the men here. The guy is Dalrock and he has an article that is an attempt to appeal to women and ways to change female behavior. here is is http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/greasing-the-marriage-rope/ I commented on the article and It looks a lot like MGTOW to me.
Mangina’s and whiteknights will never follow game on even think of going their own way so they will be the only ones available to fleece at the end of the ride on the cock carousel.

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Quartermain May 28, 2011 at 17:16

Angelguy

Yep with me, it seems if you find a gal worth marrying (or seems like it) they’re already married.

Yes there some stigma to not being married. I’ve learned to ignore it.

If asked why I’m not married, I’d say, “now why would I go out and do something like that?”

I think the stigma is lessening because there is more unmarried than married.

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Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 17:26

“The sad thing is many men think it’s their fault.”

Well, if they’re doing nothing about it, it IS they’re fault. THAT’S the sad thing.

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Quartermain May 28, 2011 at 17:40

Part of the problem is many men are isolated from each other and don’t compare notes.

Another part of the problem is the “alpha” gamers brag about their conquests or the ones who didn’t get any, lie, and brag about their “conquests”.

Many men are shamed into silence.

Most are given bad or false information.

Much of the mass media cover up the messes caused by feminism and other social engineering done from the top down.

Most politico’s and pundit either left or right are either manginas or have the attitude that it is not their problem.

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Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 18:21

Good God!
Do they have eyes? Do they have ears? Can they dial a phone? Do they have a phone? Are they old enough to vote? Have they no computers? Are thet that friggin gullible? Have they NO balls? Do they not know that the dem party and the fem party are one and the same? Do they not know next year is a critical election and a great opportunity for men and all good people? Do they not know how to make important people pay attention to the plight of men?

Methinks I hear complaints too much.

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Raj May 28, 2011 at 18:53
Attila May 28, 2011 at 23:45

I’ve given up trying to chat up “American” guys about men’s issues. It seems most of them, in my experience, react by getting defensive and/or changing the subject. I suspect there is a fear of opening up to other men being equated with homosexuality. This never seems to happen when discussing the issues with either Latin Americans, Africans or Middle Easterners.

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Nick S May 29, 2011 at 01:17

All those here who argue that economics is not the issue because poorer societies in the past still managed to maintain marriage and children are missing the point. When it comes to economics, what matters is not how wealthy or poor the society is. What matters is what economic prospects women have relative to men. Women will still marry a man of modest means if their prospects are even worse without him. Alternatively, as women advance up the income scale they tend to want to trade-up further. In a society where women are earning 50 cents a day, they can still marry-up by finding a man who earns $1 a day.

The evidence clearly shows that once women feel they can survive economically without men, and their safety is guaranteed, they feel free to toss men aside. Women nowadays don’t need men as the state largely does the job of redistributing resources from men to women, and the state has largely usurped the role of protecting women, and women control reproduction thanks to technological advances. Consequently, women feel able to be more choosy in who they settle for.

That is what is driving the decline of marriage, moreso than men simply rejecting women out of the current state of gender relations and policies. As much as I would like to believe otherwise, the sad truth is that most still want women despite all this.

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j4cksincl4ir May 29, 2011 at 01:34

@sestamibi May 27, 2011 at 13:23

<>

Do we need to read anything else for the reasons for Western decline and collapse?

We are witnessing yet another scene of the ancient struggle between the productive and the parasite. Recall that in nature, man’s greatest enemy is not the snake, the grizzly bear or the lion but the feeble mosquito.

True wealth is mined, uprooted, hunted, built and value added when these muscular tasks are put under the discipline of creativity and intellect during the construction and manufacturing processes.

Wealth creation and power acquisition are masculine pursuits and this cannot be. They must be subject to the parasitical power of interest sucking banking and the tax draining feminised-state.

We are surely not far from collapse after which parasitical power will jump to its new Asian host.

After the collapse, feminism will be irrelevant. It is already a Darwinistic dead-end which condemns the brightest and most deluded women to a life of academic barrenness. From the ruins, we will relearn the old truth that “it wasn’t woman who tamed the lion t’was a man.”

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j4cksincl4ir May 29, 2011 at 01:41

I should have mentioned the farming processes too but you get my point. Farming is probably the most important process to man and it is no coincidence that its life giving output is highly absorbed by parasitical power. Farmers also tend to find it difficult to find a help-mate wife more so than other men.

go figure.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) May 29, 2011 at 02:37

@Tom Smith,
please do not underestimate the power of

“5% is the new 50% if you happen to be a man”

to dissuade young men from marrying. Young men have a right to know that should they attempt to follows in my footsteps the kidnapping of their children, 5% of their lifetimes work is what awaits them.

I went from being a kid in a small country town in Australia to the height of my profession through hard work, dedication, commitment, devotion and a great deal of personal self sacrifice. I was able to offer my children relocation from Australia to Dublin and they went to the best school in Ireland and now have gained Irish Citizenship.

My former children will have dual citizenship and so will their children should they have them.

For all this and more? I am hated and despised. It is, apparently, ok for crimes to be committed against me. And the fact that I have published the evidence including court documents, transcripts and videos is a GREAT SERVICE to these young men.

So. It is not only it’s bad for young men starting out. It is total shit for men at the other end to.

By the way? When I was starting out in 82 there was a MUCH bigger recession….and again in 91-3. What we are seeing now is much less severe than those times. What we are seeing that is different is the women being given all these ‘guvment non jobs’ or even private sector non-jobs which have to be paid for by men having lower take home pay.

Women in the workplace have destroyed the economy and the family. Simple as.

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Lara May 29, 2011 at 06:46

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 27
DCM May 29, 2011 at 06:47

“Attila May 28, 2011 at 23:45
I’ve given up trying to chat up “American” guys about men’s issues. It seems most of them, in my experience, react by getting defensive and/or changing the subject. I suspect there is a fear of opening up to other men being equated with homosexuality. This never seems to happen when discussing the issues with either Latin Americans, Africans or Middle Easterners.”

The concept of “homophobia” is part of a scheme of social manipulation to isolate men from each other. Rather than making men less afraid of becoming friends with other men and less likely to hate gay men it’s a bassackwards way of increasing their fear and isolation. Notice how liberals are eager to accuse normal men of being gay — they can do this because they rant and rave against “homophobia”, much as they do against “racists” while staying almost exclusively among other white liberals.
All the leftist phrases and slogans that have been endlessly repeated into being standard are double-meaning disguises for slurs and mudslinging. They work, don’t they?

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Legion May 29, 2011 at 06:51

oddsock May 28, 2011 at 03:50

Actually, when a women puts up a lot of long posts, I don’t bother to read them. I stopped automatically thumbing them down due to others reactions. But your and others posts show that my method of not reading them is correct.

Too prolix as I say.

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Legion May 29, 2011 at 07:08

Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 17:26

Do what? Change laws? Change the very nature of women?

We are treated like shit by society and women. Let them sink and die. MGTOW

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oddsock May 29, 2011 at 07:09

Legion

No problem mate.

I was beginning to think I had gone all twilight zone and slipped into another dimension. I can only assume that kike yourself, most guys did not read the full contents of the last post by EM on this thread ?

I can’t say it left me speechless, it’s more a case of not wishing to post my opinions of her and get myself banned for life and the spearhead closed down for every TOS violation in the book. And even then it would still go nowhere even close to expressing my exact thoughts about her.

Go on, I dare you, go back and read her full post.

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Legion May 29, 2011 at 07:11

Mickey T May 28, 2011 at 18:21

Fool, this is not a site that comes up as a web browser. It takes time to find.

If you’re so into shaming language, use it on the men on Feminista or wherever. Just get the hell away from here.

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Legion May 29, 2011 at 07:15

oddsock May 29, 2011 at 07:09
“… kike yourself…”

Umm, I’m not jewish – lol.

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oddsock May 29, 2011 at 07:25

Legion

“Kike yourself” = Like yourself.

Ha ha sorry mate. I like to type sort of bare back. Keeps it natural and not reading like a paper from academia. I do occasionally check the spelling of a word but even that’s rare. As you can tell, I do very little proof reading before I post.

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escaped May 29, 2011 at 07:34

I’m almost 40 years old and I have never seen a good marriage among anyone in my generation. When I say good marriage, I mean a marriage where the man does not regret getting married. In most cases, the men are now stuck and are too afraid to divorce as they know what awaits them in divorce court.

The best couples are the ones where the guy has low self-esteem and just thinks this is his lot in life and the ones where the guy’s career fails completely. In that case, they couple will just split peacefully with no divorce battle as there is nothing to fight over. It’s funny but not having anything that can be taken improves relationships for men.

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Quartermain May 29, 2011 at 09:35

The concept of “homophobia” is part of a scheme of social manipulation to isolate men from each other. Rather than making men less afraid of becoming friends with other men and less likely to hate gay men it’s a bassackwards way of increasing their fear and isolation.

Notice how liberals are eager to accuse normal men of being gay — they can do this because they rant and rave against “homophobia”, much as they do against “racists” while staying almost exclusively among other white liberals

DCM

I think you are on to something. On the one hand, the AIC (assholes in charge) Encourage gaming for homosexuals while discouraging it for heterosexual men and denouncing the later for not liking being schemed on which throwing femi-nazi canards at them. It does indeed increase fear and isolation in men.

The AIC uses guile rather than force because people unaware that they’re being meddled with are less likely to fight back.

They do indeed keep the gay life style in the public’s view though homosexuals are less than 1% of the population.

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Mickey T May 29, 2011 at 11:07

@ Legion
Well, I can’t say I’m surprised. I was wondering when some ignorant big mouth was going to pop up. So:

Wake the fuck up and DO something in between whining and analyzing what everybody already knows. As long as there are enough eunuchs like you distracting men from what needs to be done, and I don’t have all the answers, they will remain the slaves of women.

“Change Laws”? how the fuck does your sorry ass think we got here? OF COURSE change the laws. AND the lawmakers. I’ve been working on that for twenty years, BEFORE most of these Draconian laws were implemented. Maybe if the world wasn’t full of Rip Van Winkles, it might not have gone this far. If men don’t free themselves from the feminist gov’t how will they ever go to the next levels? It’s impossible. Other than a sick and twisted society, there are very powerful people out there who are laughing at us because we can’t even control our women.

Or wait, maybe “let them sink and die”, as you say, is a better idea. Now there is a novel and practical idea. Wait again, that would only work after you change the nature of men.

I suggest actually trying to do something, and you say get out of here, and leave us to our whining. Not to offend the rest of the guys here, and I’m sorry many are deeply hurt, but there comes a time to finish venting and act.

If you don’t own this site, shut the fuck up, and don’t tell me where to go.

What I’m suggesting is for America, so if you are American you need to shut your mouth and learn. If not, FUCK OFF!

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DCM May 29, 2011 at 11:33

“Quartermain May 29, 2011 at 09:35
………………..
I think you are on to something. On the one hand, the AIC (assholes in charge) Encourage gaming for homosexuals while discouraging it for heterosexual men and denouncing the later for not liking being schemed on which throwing femi-nazi canards at them. It does indeed increase fear and isolation in men.

The AIC uses guile rather than force because people unaware that they’re being meddled with are less likely to fight back.

They do indeed keep the gay life style in the public’s view though homosexuals are less than 1% of the population.”

I tend to feel sorry for gay people because once they cease to be useful to leftists they will have few friends. Leftists hate them all along and most other people, who would come to terms with their condition and not be much bothered by their existence, will have a backlog of resentment due to having them crammed down their throats for decades.
I don’t understand how different types of people can’t see they are simply political tools for leftists.

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Quartermain May 29, 2011 at 14:04

DCM

I have no quarrel with homosexuals who view their sexuality as a private personal thing and want to keep that way. I consider sexuality a private and personal thing. I don’t like hearing gross details of their sexuality regardless of sexual orientation. I don’t like people inquiring about my personal affairs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ona-RhLfRfc

The AIC have been throwing it into people’s faces and feign surprise when there is blow back.

http://weirdrepublic.com/episode87.htm

Ramzpaul had a good vid on it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ramzpaul#p/u/19/eeXbbOdJrmA

While modern women have a cock carousel, the multi-cult have an oppressed victim carousel.

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Mickey T May 29, 2011 at 14:27

Furthermore,
I saw there was something unfair about the way men were treated since about puberty, when women were basically under control. I decided at that point I wasn’t going to kiss the asses of women as most men did. Plenty tried to pull their crap on me, but they quickly became history before it was too late. That’s how I ran my life and every relationship I’ve had with a woman added to my life in a positive way. My wedding day was the best day of my life. So, I don’t need you, or anybody else, to tell me how women treat men.

Since my early teens I realized WOMEN TREAT YOU, THE WAY YOU LET THEM TREAT YOU. Today, although a totally different world, that still has truth directly or indirectly. EVERY man can do SOMETHING.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) May 29, 2011 at 14:48

Em May 27, 2011 at 15:18
“I have to respectfully disagree that woman want to be abused and are immoral at birth.”

Em. You can disagree all you like. It happens to be true for most western women now. My ex provoked me for years and years and years. (She claimed her first husband was ‘abusive’.) She also called in a false DV accusation to the police and I was badly injured in the arrest and put into a 3×6 cell with a guy with blood all over him.

Women want to be abused. And they will pick, pick, pick and nag, nag, nag until they get it. One time I was working overseas and my wife ‘lost’ my gadget so I could see the company bank account….and a client failed to pay an invoice for EUR18,000. Since I could not see the bank account I asked her to check all invoices. About 8 months later when I was doing the taxes (and had long finished at the client) I found the missing EUR18,000. Thats about USD25,000. Just gone. For no reason than she was lazy. What was worse I had an email telling me she HAD CHECKED and all invoices were paid.

When I discussed this with her in BARELY are raised voice she claimed ‘abuse’ and how ‘you always yell at me’ and ‘its no wonder I cant do anything right with such an abusive man like you as a husband’. Yep. Raising your voice even slightly over a fuck up of USD25,000 is ‘abusive’ if you are a ‘modern woman’. My ENTIRE married life? Whenever there was an ‘easy way’ and a ‘hard way’ my ex would ALWAYS make sure I had to do thing the ‘hard way’.

Women seek ‘abuse’ and they claim ‘abuse’ at the drop of a hat. Just two weeks ago a female POLICE OFFICER claimed emails I sent her via youtube pointing out how police are criminals was ‘harassment’ and ‘abusive’. Yes. If you are female cop an email you VOLUNTARILY read and a conversation you VOLUNTARILY engage in via email is ‘abuse’ if you disagree with it. So I make it really easy. I just say ‘the vast majority of women are liars and hypocrites’ and point them here. Talking to western women is a complete waste of time. For example? Have YOU started a project yet to get women to be 51% of the six categories listed here? No? Well? Why are you typing here and NOT starting that project? Women all over the world are protesting their ‘right to be sluts’ but none are them are protesting their right to be 51% of the war dead.

Western women are complete hypocrites EM. And that would include you.

http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/14/threadid/483/scope/posts/Default.aspx

I can not tell you how much happier I am that I no longer have to put up with that shit. I really can’t.

zed May 28, 2011 at 09:44
Correct. Until EM is campaigning for women to be 51% of the above categories and until she has created courts that provide men a path to justice she is EXACTLY LIKE THAT. Em is FULL OF SHIT and it’s not hard for a man who was married 18 years to see it. But apparently it is not NEARLY so easy for other men to see it.

The only way back for women is to complete one of the two affidavits in the book and then live up to it. Until then? Who cares what a woman says? I only care about their actions. And guess what? EM is NOT taking the actions that will make any difference at all. And as Zed points out. LOTS of women are trying to present themselves as ‘the good wife’. It’s complete crap unless they back it up with action like creating courts and taking the houses and children women stole from good men.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) May 29, 2011 at 14:52

Em May 27, 2011 at 12:15
“Actually, the reason woman hate men is a simple one. Every woman knows deep down she cannot happily exist without one. Men by the very fact they exist means she cannot be happy AND independent”

My fav#1@ “Women do not know what makes them happy. They need to be told what they can have by their man and then told to be happy about it. THEN the woman will be happy.”

I find that she is correct.

Women are, quite simply, unable to take care of themselves. There is no other adult female mammal on the planet so hopelessly defenceless as a human woman. Indeed, I struggle to think of many other female animals that are so inherently defenceless as the adult female human being. A female human can not climb a tree, can not run to save their life and are so small, weak and punty that to give 10 women pointed sticks and tell them to ‘go kill a woolly mammoth’ is a complete joke and we all know it. A woman breaking her fingernail is a ‘tragedy’.

The woman beefeater in the UK went on ‘long term stress leave’ because she was ‘abused’ by the guys leaving yellow sticky notes on her uniform saying something to the effect she was not up to scratch. The fact this caused all her hair to fall out and go on sick leave kind of proves the point.

Women are totally, completely and utterly dependent on men for ‘provision and protection’. All that really need to happen to make this clear again is for men to explain to the cops that if they continue committing crimes against us men on the say so of evil lying perjurous women it is the COPS we will target as well as the women. If it ever gets to the point the cops will not leave the station to protect women? The women will soon find out just how ‘independent’ they are. Which would be not at all. Cops are, right now, enemy #3 of men right behind politicians and the legal fraternity.

Kevin May 27, 2011 at 11:09
“I don’t understand where all this hatred came from concerning women hating men. I know feminism did a lot to poison women’s minds, but could it really have that big of an influence? I see so many angry women in my daily life who have a genuine hatred for men and I don’t understand where it comes from. How do all these women think they are Wonder Woman? Do they really think that being born a female makes them superhuman? If anyone has some ideas, let me know.”

Kevin. Take a look at this…
http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums/tabid/82/forumid/112/scope/threads/Default.aspx

Women have been fed a steady diet of misandry about men for years now. Trust me..they really do HATE us. To notice the level of hatred you need to date some non-feminised women. You will notice a MASSIVE difference. Women will claim that a man in my situation, wife committing a series of crimes and getting 95% of the house somehow ‘deserved’ it and if she was a complete bitch then I ‘made her that way’. These are ‘self described good women’.

A man can not safely engage with a western woman. Period. If she does not HATE you now? She soon will….95%+ probability if not higher. I won’t touch a western woman. And when dating EEW I qualify then by roundly denouncing western women in the first 5 minutes and making sure she agrees with me.

SingleDad May 27, 2011 at 13:41
The fertility rates for women in the US are dropping rapidly,

Fertility rate in Germany. 1.38. And this included muslim women who average 6 children.

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Mr. N May 29, 2011 at 15:20

@Oddsock

You are incorrect about lack of birth control being a factor in the Irish population explosion. Birth control was forbidden for Englishmen too.

Every major denomination today once understood contraception as a major offense avaunt the Lord. It was not until 1930 that Anglicans (the first group to adopt contraception) allowed contraception (at the seventh Lambeth Conference) under extreme circumstances like the health of the mother while the husband will be unable to remain celibate. From there it devolved to what we have today with twelve year olds popping hormone pills at the school’s nurse’s station.

This was long after the English occupation of all of Ireland.

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DCM May 29, 2011 at 15:37

“Quartermain May 29, 2011 at 14:04
DCM

I have no quarrel with homosexuals who view their sexuality as a private personal thing and want to keep that way. I consider sexuality a private and personal thing. I don’t like hearing gross details of their sexuality regardless of sexual orientation. I don’t like people inquiring about my personal affairs.”

Why do you think they declared that “the personal is political”?
The slogan sets all that crap up. It’s an instruction in technique as well as a statement of leftist political principle.

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oddsock May 29, 2011 at 16:59

Mr. N May

@Oddsock

“You are incorrect about lack of birth control being a factor in the Irish population explosion. Birth control was forbidden for Englishmen too.”

Mr N May

Nope I am not incorrect at all. I did say in my post that lack of birth control was a factor in the ” later ” segment of the large Irish population birth rate. I still stand by my view that the Roman Catholic religion and it’s drive for large families was a major contributor. A perfect example. Look at the Philippines. Extreme poverty in most places and yet the Roman Catholic church still heavily promotes big families and minimal birth control while knowing full well most can bearly feed themselves.

Again I am not aware of the “English” occupying Ireland at any time. Perhaps you mean, as mentioned in my previous post, the Royal’s and Elites ? It’s beyond me why people need to try and cause unneccessary division ? Again, using your analysis technique is the same as saying all men oppressed all women. It is a few men and a few women at the top that oppressed the majority of men and women and still do.

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Angelguy May 29, 2011 at 17:31

“If asked why I’m not married, I’d say, “now why would I go out and do something like that?”

I think the stigma is lessening because there is more unmarried than married.”

Thanks Quartermain, I appreciate that comment.
I’ll probably use the next time someone asks me that.
Angelguy

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Angelguy May 29, 2011 at 17:34

“You are overly sensitive. Is anyone really criticizing you for being single or are you just imagining they are?”

Lara:
No imagining here, some of the people in my workplace are that critical, especially the women. The men here don’t care.
You might think I am overly sensitive, but after a while, it does become tiresome. I have learned to ignore it.

To each their own.
Angelguy

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Angelguy May 29, 2011 at 17:38

“In the olden days, I think I’d have said that shagging hookers was an emotion free, deluxe masturbation session.

I still would, I’d just add that it was just like hook-up culture (with clearer financial arrangements).

How depressing is that? And I’m a male asking the question…”

Yeah Gendeau, it is depressing.
It is becoming more difficult to make that distinction between regular women and prostitutes. One dresses up more than the other, but they both want a man to spend all their money on them.
Angelguy

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oddsock May 29, 2011 at 18:13

AngelGuy

“It is becoming more difficult to make that distinction between regular women and prostitutes. One dresses up more than the other, but they both want a man to spend all their money on them.
Angelguy”

Unless you have been married or in a LTR you probably won’t appreciate the fact that we don’t pay a hooker for sex, we pay her to leave after it. Plus, they are usually much younger than an old saggy wife with a much better figure too.

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Em May 29, 2011 at 19:14

“Western women are complete hypocrites EM. And that would include you.”

Then I will bow out of any and all further discussion.

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Stick May 29, 2011 at 19:27

Keyster said : “The other factor facing young men is that, other than some free sex, young women are just not that pleasant to be around.”

The sex ISN’T free. You have to take them places, buy food, drink, movie tickets, listen to their inane dribble about what kind moisturizer is best for their skin, and what bastards the Canadians are because they bash some cute little seal pups on the head – Just so you can stick your dick in her? I think the 2 best options are to either buy a fuck from a prostitute, who will do anything you want for a set fee or pick up a low life fuck monkey in a pub somewhere that you can fuck and chuck. Steer clear of ‘girlfriends’, they cost too much to run.

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Quartermain May 29, 2011 at 19:32

DCM

I think the cultural Marxists said “the personal is political” because they’re humorless busy body idiots. I first heard that line from Dr. Zhivago.

Ironically, most Marxists, socialists, etc were not from working class families but the very well to do ones.

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Attila May 29, 2011 at 20:17

Women are way overrated so that any time NOT dealing or thinking about them and their ways is time well spent. Develop a sincere interest in a challenging and time-consuming hobby (not work!) and you won’t even remember that you forgot them! In my case- I started studying some of the hard languages (Russian and Arabic) – and it’s done wonders for my understanding of those areas/cultures.

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imnobody May 29, 2011 at 20:23

I was going to say something but zed has said it all. Read it.

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BeijaFlor May 29, 2011 at 20:44

@ Em May 29, 2011 at 19:14

Em, I did read your long posts earlier in this thread.

You are a dream and a fantasy, or at least the persona you portrayed is such. I, for one, have given up on believing that a woman such as your posts portrayed can even exist in this world.

Certainly my own mother, who lived with me when I became a wage-earner and who depended on me the last twenty years of her life, was not as supportive of me as you have portrayed yourself to be of your man. That completely ignores the sexual/romantic loving that you portray yourself as giving him, which is absolutely impossible and not to be even discussed in a mother-son relationship.

I have to treat your dissertations as a fairy tale, because there can never be anyone like the “you” that you portray, for me in my life. This may also give hints to the dismissal and dissing you’ve got from other men on The Spearhead – men who have been so maltreated, so viciously flayed by their spouses, or so dismissed by the targets of their affections if unmarried, so scarred in the “battle of the sexes,” that they simply don’t believe you.

If you are real, if you really have a husband that you treat so well and children who get to see that in their developing years … it’s still just a fantasy to the vast majority of men here, and in the outer world. A woman like the one you claim to be would be like “winning the lotto” for any man. I have no confidence at all that I might encounter someone like the “you” that you portray.

Whether your posts are written by a real person who really feels that way, or by a person who is feeding someone’s fantasies by describing such feelings – you are only a lovely fantasy, a Black Swan in truth or fable or fiction, to the men of The Spearhead.

Thank you for feeding our fantasies, whoever you are.

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BeijaFlor May 29, 2011 at 21:01

Gentlemen,

My own “bottom line” on this whole discussion is that I have learned to live on my own. I have no assurance that anyone is reliable to me; there is not a one of us who hasn’t got more allegiance to our own needs than to any concept of truth, justice, charity, kinship, kindliness, or value-for-value.

As for women, we have dissected them ruthlessly here, and it appears that we agree they are even more callous, more crafty, more dissembling, more ruthless, more childish, more self-centered, more dismissive of any other needs … must I go on? … than any male.

It is lovely to read the fantasy of the One Understanding Woman in this thread, but if she isn’t a fabrication she is already claimed.

I can only recommend that you who are not “attached” learn to get along on your own. Buy or rent your own lodgings, without asking yourself if they’d be suitable for “Honey and me and baby makes three.” Fix your own meals. Make your own coffee. Take care of your own stuff, your own lodgings, your own life. Remember and recognize that there is no one to help you or even bother to recognize your existence and situation; if you really desire someone to validate you for living decently on your own, invite your parents to lunch and fix them a decent lunch.

Be complete on your own, live your own life, and refrain from “needing someone” to make you complete. You are complete and capable on your own, and you honestly don’t need “some special someone” to validate you. Look up Rudyard Kipling’s poem “The Winners” and remember his every stanza comes back to the same theme, the same concept -

“He travels the fastest who travels alone.”

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fmz May 29, 2011 at 23:28

Marriage sarks.

DGM and GYOW.

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DCM May 30, 2011 at 02:58

“Quartermain May 29, 2011 at 19:32
DCM

I think the cultural Marxists said “the personal is political” because they’re humorless busy body idiots. I first heard that line from Dr. Zhivago.

Ironically, most Marxists, socialists, etc were not from working class families but the very well to do ones.”

The phrase, I admit, is a work of genius since it appeals both to those natural meddlers, females, and to losers who find no meaning in their own lives and want to observe and interfere with it in others’.
It also has the appearance of showing concern for other people and revealing purpose and meaning in neurotic confusion.
Much as I detest it I have to admire the insight and cleverness of whoever came up with it. Let’s just hope they came to a bad end.

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beta_plus May 30, 2011 at 10:44

The best thing Washington could do is to stop spending on the welfare state. But guess who is voting to make sure that happens?

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Quartermain May 30, 2011 at 11:05

DCM

I think the book True Believer by Eric Hoffer should be required reading for young people before they go into the real world.

Home schoolers take note.

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Quartermain May 30, 2011 at 16:17

Ramzpaul on the self appointed comisars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ZP-vr7P4A

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Common Monster May 30, 2011 at 21:50

…This caused bleeding that wouldn’t stop. I was given several injections of a medication (I can’t remember what it was called) and the massive blood loss stopped.

Em, I’d bet dollars to donuts it was Methergine you got, which was discovered by Albert Hofmann in the course of his investigations that led also to the discovery of LSD:

“…an active principle was obtained that even surpassed the natural [ergot] alkaloid in its therapeutic properties. This improved ergobasine has found worldwide application as a dependable uterotonic, hemostatic ["hemorrhage stopping"] remedy under the trade name Methergine, and is today the leading medicament for this indication in obstetrics.”
– from Chapter 1 of LSD — My Problem Child

It’s not my field, so I don’t know for sure, but I believe his last statement is still true today, some 40 years later.

So, if you’re still around, have you considered the possibility that your adverse reactions may not have been entirely due to the BC pills?

As Dr. Hofmann relates in the chapter linked to, compounds found in ergot have for a long time been linked to people flipping out, just as they’ve also been used in obstetrics. Methergine, chemically speaking, is only barely different from the naturally occurring molecules found in ergot — which is why it was one of the first discovered (like LSD).

I only thought of this because you stated you received several doses, and the wikipedia entry suggests sufficient amounts might lead to LSD-like side effects.

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Quartermain May 31, 2011 at 08:54

Vote me if you wish, but I liked reading Em’s comments.

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Quartermain May 31, 2011 at 08:56

That should have been:

Vote me down if you wish, but I liked reading Em’s comments.

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Skeptic June 1, 2011 at 02:23

As wonderful and supportive as EM makes herself out to be she still gets a ‘D” rather than an ‘A’ on my scorecard.
Why?
Because right now I reckon we men could do with women who are POLITICALLY ACTIVE in turning back feminism. Loving being a housewife and stay at home mom doesn’t cut it with me. EM, despite all her lovey-dovey rhetoric, only has to pick up the phone and dial three numbers and her husband is in DEEP and undeserved shit. Yet we hear nothing from her about being ACTIVE to change being in that particular seat of power.
So much for all her talk of being supportive, loving etc. I know a very, very, very few women who hit the streets alongside men protesting the injustices against men.
Until I see a good deal more women doing such and other acts of agitation that are pro male it’s business as usual whereby it’s safer to assume all women ARE like that and stay MGTOW.

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Gary June 1, 2011 at 07:33

I’m 42, have never been married and do not have any children, am college educated and own my own business. I am fairly stable financially; I still have student loans to pay off but other than that I am debt free. I have made the conscious decision to never marry even if I meet the so-called “right woman” and I suppose the main reason is a financial one but perhaps not the one the article alludes to. My financial reason for not getting married is that I refuse to become a vehicle for a woman’s unrealistic, ultra-materialistic, self-entitled lifestyle obsession. My life experiences with women have taught me that what is most important to the vast majority of western women is making their friends jealous. I won’t subsidize that female mindset.

I have also seen a great many of my good friends get married and work themselves to death only to see themselves become 4th or 5th class citizens in their own homes behind 1) the kids 2) her family 3) her friends 4) the family pets. When I see/hear about my friends turning their garage into their “man-cave” I wince because I can just imagine how much it hurts to have your balls cut off with a dull butter knife.

No, I don’t see myself ever getting married. It’s an outdated, antiquated institution that serves only to ultimately victimize men. I’m not sad or bitter about it either; I’m quite happy actually….especially after I talk to my miserable married friends or my divorced friends.

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Rahul June 1, 2011 at 15:39

Excellent and beautifully written article.

I’m a Christian single male and find it impossible to find a mate. Furthermore, I’m a physician and my work schedule is hectic. I had thoughts of getting married when I was younger, however, as I am getting older, I’m coming to realize that marriage is not as it used to be.

Couples are no longer willing to up with each other and that explains the 70% (and rising) divorce rates. Plus, there is a steady decline of morals and ethical values; people are having more and more extra-marital affairs (through social networking for example).

My parents have been married for 33+ years and I’d like my marriage to be like that, however, I don’t think that can be achieved in this day and age.

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Skeptik June 3, 2011 at 00:34

Today I met several new classes I’ll be teaching over the forthcoming year.
As always I gave them a chance to ask me getting to know you type questions.
In each class (17 – 18 years old) I was asked “are you married?”
“No, I’m happy” I answered.
It got a fair bit of laughter each time.

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David K. Meller June 3, 2011 at 19:45

Even in better days, when men gained as much from marriage as they gave to it, and at least there were efforts in law and custom to preserve an illusion of his being the ‘head of the house”, wasn’t marriage always something of a “woman thing” in Western households. Even when daughters were ‘given away” for the purpose of uniting two families and households, I get the impression that the entire ceremony and tradition was more for the bride than for the groom–still less for the other men of the two households!

Maybe other readers could enlighten me on these points some more! I think that maybe MGTOW may be a form of long-overdue liberation of men from a legal/theological/economic net of restrictions which may have benefited women even in patriarchal times (so we’ve been told) but really secured greater well being for women, especially if the household was otherwise prosperous and powerful!

During the century just past, especially the second half, we were frequently told that marriage was a form of “slavery” of women to men by feminists, but we all know how truthful and accurate this sisterhood from hell is, don’t we?

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller

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ZBK June 12, 2011 at 01:33

American women and their highly toxic feminist attitudes make them completely unfit for marriage. The few marriages that do happen, end up in divorce. So go figure!
The fact is that women and American women in particular are not femini ne anymore. That is a complete and total turn-off.
And she will relinquish her traditional roles and cleverly replace it with higher education, getting a job, putting her name on that house (which is now underwater), just to signify her equality and independence.
All this to show that she really doesn’t need a man for protection or any other reason. SHE CAN MANAGE ON HER OWN!
I say such women should be avoided and discarded as the scum of society. Take away their jobs and source of egoism…and soon they’ll realize what the real world looks like.
That day is soon coming and its not very far off!

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NoThanx July 20, 2011 at 20:14

It’s really simple. Men are not marrying because the risk is not nearly worth the reward. The chances are great that you could lose your house, your assets, your income, and your children to a woman who poisons your own children against you. To top it off, he loses the lions share of his income for the next two decades to his ex wife, and therefore cannot save for retirement, that is if he can manage to stay out of debtor’s prison. When he finally comes out from under the debt burden in his mid 40′s, it’s too late to save for retirement. The chances are better than even that he will live most of his adult life, and die, in poverty, while his own children are systematically poisoned against him. This is not the exception in the US today, this scenario is the norm. Nothing is worth that risk.

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NoThanx October 2, 2011 at 18:29

Men are not marrying because marriage in the U.S. is a bad deal for men. Not just a little bit of a bad deal, but if he gives her children, and if/when she chooses to leave (which is more likely than not), then he lives at the edge of poverty for most of his adult life, then dies in poverty because he was never able to save enough money for retirement – all while his own children are poisoned against him by a vindictive mother who had the affair and broke up the marriage.

Do you think this is the exception? Hardly. It’s what happens most of the time.

Men are just lining up to sign on the dotted line for what will be, chances are, a raw deal.

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