The 1674 Women’s Campaign Against Coffee

by W.F. Price on April 15, 2011

Prohibition, widely enacted in the early 20th century in the US and northern Europe, is often brought up as an example of female activism and a consequence of suffrage, but long before the introduction of universal suffrage similar restrictionist movements had almost resulted in heavy penalties for, of all things, drinking coffee.

In late 1675, King Charles II of England banned the sale and consumption of coffee in “a proclamation for the suppression of coffee-houses.” Fortunately, he backed down a couple days before the ban was to take effect. Coffee had, at that point, become very popular amongst the British intelligentsia, spawning a number of all-male coffee clubs where men would gather to discuss philosophy and politics. Apparently, Charles wasn’t all that pleased about the activities of the intellectually stimulated men, who were accused of spreading dissent throughout the realm.

However, there had already been political pressure from another group to ban coffee, which is perhaps what gave Charles the initial push toward banning the substance.

It turns out that a group of proto-feminists had approached the king demanding that he shut down the coffee houses a year earlier, as the elixir was held to be causing their husbands to become snotty, “Frenchified” fellows who had lost all interest in sex (with their wives).

The document they presented is “The Women’s Petition Against Coffee,” and it is well worth reading for the humor therein if nothing else. In one hilarious passage, the “Buxome Good Women” warn that coffee-drinking husbands run the risk of being “Cuckol’d by Dildo’s.” In another, they express dismay that men have begun to talk as much as women.

Here are a few excerpts:

To the Right Honorable the Keepers
of the Liberties of Venus; The
Worshipful Court of Female-Assistants,
&c.

The Humble Petition and Address of
several Thousands of Buxome Good-Women,
Languishing in Extremity
of Want.

SHEWETH,

THat since ’tis Reckon’d amongst the Glories of
our Native Country, To be A Paradise for Women:
The same in our Apprehensions can consist
in nothing more than the brisk Activity of
our men, who in former Ages were justly esteemed the
Ablest Performers in Christendome; But to our unspeakable
Grief, we find of late a very sensible Decay of that
true Old English Vigour; our Gallants being every way so
Frenchified, that they are become meer Cock-sparrows,
fluttering things that come on Sa sa, with a world of Fury,
< >
but are not able to stand to it, and in the very first Charge
fall down flat before us. Never did Men wear greater
Breeches, or carry less in them of any Mettle whatsoever.
There was a glorious Dispensation (’twas surely in the
Golden Age) when Lusty Ladds of seven or eight hundred
years old, Got Sons and Daughters; and we have
read, how a Prince of Spain was forced to make a Law,
that Men should not Repeat the Grand Kindness to their
Wives, above NINE times in a night: But Alas! Alas!
Those forwards Days are gone, The dull Lubbers want a
Spur now, rather than a Bridle: being so far from doing
any works of Supererregation that we find them not
capable of performing those Devoirs which their Duty, and
our Expectations Exact.

[...]

Nor is this (though more than enough) All the ground
of our Complaint: For besides, we have reason to apprehend
and grow Jealous, That Men by frequenting these
Stygian Tap-houses will usurp on our Prerogative of
< >
Tatling, and soon learn to exeel us in Talkativeness: a
Quality wherein our Sex has ever Claimed preheminence:
For here like so many Frogs in a puddle, they sup muddy
water, and murmur insignificant notes till half a dozen of
them out-babble an equal number of us at a Gossipping, talking
all at once in Confusion, and running from point to
point as insensibly, and as swiftly, as ever the Ingenious
Pole-wheel could run divisions on the Base-viol; yet in all
their prattle every one abounds in his own sense, as stiffly
as a Quaker at the late Barbican dispute, and submits to
the Reasons of no other mortal: so that there being neither
Moderator nor Rules observ’d, you may as soon fill a
Quart pot with Syllogismes, as profit by their Disconrses.

[...]

Wherefore the Premises considered, and to the end that our Just
Rights may be restored, and all the Antient Priviledges of our Sex preserved
inviolable; That our Husbands may give us some other Testimonies
of their being Men, besides their Beards and wearing of empty Pantaloons:
That they no more run the hazard of being Cuckol’d by Dildo’s:
But returning to the good old strengthning Liquors of our Forefathers;
that Natures Exchequer may once again be replenisht, and a Race of
Lusty Hero’s begot, able by their Atchievments, to equal the Glories
of our Ancesters.

We Humbly Pray, That you our Trusty Patrons would improve your
Interest, that henceferth [>henceforth] the Drinking COFFEE may on severe
penalties be forbidden to all Persons under the Age of Threescore; and that
instead thereof, Lusty nappy Beer, Cock-Ale, Cordial Canaries, Restoring
Malago’s, and Back-recruiting Chocholes be Recommended to General
Use, throughout the Utopian Territories.

In hopes of which Glorious Reformation,
your Petitioners shall readily Prostrate
themselves, and ever Pray, &c.

FINIS.

{ 69 comments… read them below or add one }

Herbal Essence April 15, 2011 at 09:07

Translation:
“The men have a social life that doesn’t involve giving us undivided attention. This must be stopped!”

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mananon April 15, 2011 at 09:22

‘Ancient privilidges of our sex’.

“But I thought women were oppressed for 2000/10000/25000 years etc etc etc”.

/sarcasm

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Common Monster April 15, 2011 at 09:28

Someone has written a book on this period in British history, when the improvement in the quality of the public water systems made coffee and tea drinking feasible for the masses. Before that, the primary source of potable H2O was via fermented beverages. A country which bellies up to the bar for a pint or two starting mid-AM is quite different from one running on hard-driving stimulant. The coffee houses became something the local pubs never could be — a threat to the powers that be.

I’m pretty sure coffee even earlier was the subject of the death penalty sometime somewhere in the vicinity of present-day Turkey, but I don’t recall the complete story. Perhaps someone knows it.

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Lara April 15, 2011 at 09:29

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Fxdom April 15, 2011 at 09:31

This is an example of how women and powerful mens’ interests are often shared – at the expense of the average man’s personal freedoms. To fight in their name for military or law enforcement is naively self-defeating.

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TomJW April 15, 2011 at 09:44

“… “Frenchified” fellows who had lost all interest in sex (with their wives). ”

Yeah, the guys sobered up and couldn’t get wood looking at their harridan wives.

Common Monster April 15, 2011 at 09:28

I always thought the transition from always having to drink beer or wine to being able to drink coffee and tea was the turning point in modern civilization. Industry, production, and trade cranked up and fighting each other dropped down with the change.

I didn’t know that the drinking water had been improved at the time (and me a civil engineer), but it makes a lot of sense.

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Rod April 15, 2011 at 09:45

Interesting. And here I thought it was a recent phenomenon that women like to break up male gatherings of any sort … You know, male golfers can’t have a male-only Augusta tournament, but women’s golf tournaments are just fine. Etc., etc. “Alright, break it up guys” screech the Amazons as they invade the last vestiges of male space.

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Jack Donovan April 15, 2011 at 09:54

Interesting article. How women love their lattes now…

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Clarence April 15, 2011 at 09:56

I blew coffee out of my nose.

Priceless!
:)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
TomJW April 15, 2011 at 10:01

Mother’s Day is approaching in USA. Here is my nominee for femist mom-of-the-year:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/04/14/2011-04-14_youre_going_to_die_with_me.html

Just sickening.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
Milroy April 15, 2011 at 10:26

RE: TomJW

Look at all the comments supporting and making excuses for the murderous cunt’s evil crime. It’s always a man’s fault.

The difference between men and women: Men will gladly slit the throat of any man that does this to his children while Women will gladly slit the throat of any MAN that is the boyfriend of any woman who does this to children.

Do you notice the difference ? Sisterhood supports each other and only each other while brotherhood supports sisterhood. No wonder men are nearing slave status in progressive countries like Sweden.

Just sickening.

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P. Gibson April 15, 2011 at 10:29

the only thing I can think of is cunt punt….

that’s all.

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Opus April 15, 2011 at 10:50

Although the Humble Petition may genuinely be from 1675 (I wasn’t around then so I can’t remember) this Petition is nothing of the sort. I detect that it is a spoof – that is to say something for public-sale. A sort of 17th Century version of what one might to day read in Private Eye [Americans : The Eye (as we call it) is a satirical fortnightly Magazine]

I am more intrigued by Welmer’s suggestion that early in the twentieth century there was Prohibition in Northern Europe. Was there? Not in England, I think – unless you can’t our strange Licensing Laws – but I wasn’t around then, so cannot say for certain.

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W.F. Price April 15, 2011 at 10:54

I am more intrigued by Welmer’s suggestion that early in the twentieth century there was Prohibition in Northern Europe. Was there? Not in England, I think – unless you can’t our strange Licensing Laws – but I wasn’t around then, so cannot say for certain.

-Opus

Yes, in Scandinavia.

SingleDad April 15, 2011 at 11:03

Think of the opportunity we have to break away from what seems to be at least 500 years of bondage.

I read a feminist quote today saying that feminists want to put men back in their box’s.

Let’s not let them.

I’m also going to say something controversial. Brothels need to be legalized in the United States and this needs to be a pillor of the men’s rights movement. The feminist monopoly on the supply of affection and confort to men must end.

The war on drugs needs to cease. It is a political tool to imprison US men. Drugs in this country are freely available for even young children right now. This war has nothing to do with stopping this, it is only for imprisoning men, especially black and hispanic men.

It’s time to roll back all the anti-male prohibitions that woman of the west have foisted on men for the last 1/2 millenium.

One step at a time.

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Opus April 15, 2011 at 11:07

Thanks Welmer. I was in Sweden (and managed to return without being expedited – although I confess I did have sex with one of their residents) and they are still fairly prohibited as to Drink. They do not seem to have Bars and Pubs the way we do here and you do in Anerica. They drink at Home and seem to drink more than is good for them.

I was watching a documentary about Copenhagen in Denmark . There were scenes of drunken men sleeping it off on the pavement [tr Sidewalk]. ‘These people’ (the voice-over intoned as the camera lingered) ‘are called Swedes’.

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Uncle Elmer April 15, 2011 at 11:09

From The Secret Diary of William Byrd of Westover, 1709–1712 :

8 September … saw two women, a mother and daughter who stayed about two hours and then came Mrs. Johnson with whom I supped and ate some fricasee of rabbit and about ten went to bed with her and lay all night and rogured her twice …

11 September … I wrote some English till nine and then came Mrs. S-t-r-d. I drank a glass of wine to our good rest and then went to bed and rogured her three times. However, I could not sleep and neglected my prayers….

14 … About eight I went to Mrs. Smith’s where I met Molly and had some oysters for supper and about eleven we went to bed and I rogured her twice …

17 … about seven I went to Mrs. FitzHerbert’s where I ate some boiled pork and drank some ale. About nine I walked away and picked up a girl whom I carried to the bagnio and rogured her twice very well. It rained abundance in the night.

6 October…. endeavored to pick up a wh— but could not. I neglected my prayers, for which God forgive me …

7 October … picked up a wh— and carried her to a tavern where I gave her a supper and we ate a broiled fowl. We did nothing but fool and parted about 11 o’clock and I walked home and neglected my prayers …

16 October picked up a woman and went to the tavern where we had a broiled fowl and afterwards I committed uncleanness for which God forgive me. About eleven I went home and neglected my prayers.

20 October … to the play where I saw nobody I liked so went to Will’s and stayed about an hour and then went to Mrs. Smith’s where I met a very tall woman and rogured her three times …

11 November, went with Lord Orrery to Mrs B-r-t-n where we found two chambermaids that my Lord had ordered to be got for us and I rogured one of them and about 9 o’clock returned again to Will’s where Betty S-t-r-d called on me in a coach and I went with her to a bagnio and rogured her twice, for which God forgive me …

13 … took my ways towards Mrs. Southwell’s but she was from home. Then I walked in the park and went to Ozinda’s … After we went to Will’s … then … to Mistress B-r-t and stayed about an hour

14 … went away to Will’s where a woman called on me. .. then went to a bagnio where I rogured my woman but once. Her name was Sally Cook. There was a terrible noise in the night like a woman crying…

22 … walked home and by the way picked up a woman and committed uncleanness with her, for which God forgive me …

28 … I ate some boiled milk for supper and romped with Molly F-r-s-y and about 9 o’clock retired and kissed the maid so that I committed uncleanness, for which God forgive me.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6
Gendeau April 15, 2011 at 11:11

So, did prohibition work any better in Scandinavia than in the US?

I haven’t heard of a Viking Mafia, but I certainly expect that there were ‘surprising’ side-effects (if you were female, or clue-less about the concept of consequences for other reasons).

I mean, who’d guess that banning men from drinking would just cause them to take it underground, and spark a criminal conspiracy making immense fortunes for the bad guys, and turn a lot of previously law abiding citizens into people who thought that the law was an ass?

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Paradoxotaur April 15, 2011 at 11:13
Uncle Elmer April 15, 2011 at 11:16

Could this be a prank? The dildos and talkativeness memes seem too funny for the document to be true. If it is real, the attempt at shaming men’s sexuality for engaging in activities which the ladies don’t approve seems universal.

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SDaedalus April 15, 2011 at 11:18

Fascinating stuff. I’d never heard of this before. Thanks.

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SDaedalus April 15, 2011 at 11:20

It looks like the men put in a spirited response:-

http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/mens-answer-1674.htm

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Simon April 15, 2011 at 11:22

I agree with SingleDad in that legalized street prostitution and pimping need to be the front and center demand of mens’ civil rights. Control sex is feminists’ greatest point of control over men and once the bitter middle aged hags lose that they really have no other trump card to play against us (even fathers rights take a backseat to the control feminists wield over men via criminalization of prostitution) And 21 different legal categories of “rape”

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Aharon April 15, 2011 at 11:52

Here you guys go; coffee mugs depicting this event:

“These two mugs; ‘Mens Defense of Coffee’ and ‘Women’s Petition Against Coffee’ are based on genuine 17th century documents about the then new beverage, coffee. This mug shows the Women’s Petition Against Coffee. The other mug shows the Men’s Answer. 12 oz mugs – hold enough coffee to make one ‘trifle away their time and scald their Chops.’”

http://www.philosophersguild.com/nation/index.lasso?page_mode=Product_Detail&item=0526

another site:
Men’s Defense of Coffee: Men’s Answer to Women’s Petition
Documented on this mug is Men’s Answer to The Women’s Petition Against Coffee. In 1674 at the pinnacle of Europe’s coffee craze, women pointed a published finger at coffee and criticized its effects on men’s places of socialization, and their sexual prowess.

So take up your mugs, gentlemen, and defend your right to drink coffee! “The truth is, Coffee rather assists us for your Nocturnal Benevolences, by drying up those Crude Flatulent Humours, which otherwise would make us only Flash in the Pan.” Men’s Answer to The Women’s Petition

Carries 14 ounces of liquid, but pounds and pounds of repartee!

http://www.shakespearesden.com/mens-defense-against-womens-petition.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
f6m6n6st April 15, 2011 at 12:10

[Feminist redenation]
Ah, a substance that makes men think and re-evaluate their position in society, and at the same time lessens their attention for their wives, that MUST be banned!

Right?

Its EVIL! A poison to society! Lets ban it, that will solve the problem!

[/feminist redenation]

I wonder when women will also start action to ban video games, since too many men play them and they do not get enough attention from those lowly creatures, whose sole purpose in life is to cater to their needs.

f6m6n6st

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alpha April 15, 2011 at 12:37

[[I read a feminist quote today saying that feminists want to put men back in their box’s. ]]]

wtf?who?what?when?where?how?

links linx I wants linx!!!!!!!!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
classic Joe April 15, 2011 at 12:46

That is really funny. They wanted the king to help them get the men back to being silent, drunk and horny.

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John Boy April 15, 2011 at 12:50

The internet is the modern equivalent of the coffee houses of yore. It is a place where people (men) gather to gripe about their problems. I have no doubt that feminist of today hold the same opinion of such establishments.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Stevo April 15, 2011 at 13:03

When women tell you men want them to be barefoot and pregnant, they’re really projecting their desire for men to be silent, drunk and horny.

Very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_and_pregnant

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
Dehbashi April 15, 2011 at 13:46

Another unrelated story to this article.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/04/15/2011-04-15_bad_girls_gone_wild.html

Um yeah. You can’t beat her in a talent show so you beat the crap out of her physically with a padlock like a ball and chain. Psychotic bitches.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
piercedhead April 15, 2011 at 15:02

That petition is so well-written,so witty and so self-deprecating that I cannot believe it was written by a woman. More likely it was a humorous gesture penned by a man wishing to gain some notoriety in the king’s court.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Aharon April 15, 2011 at 15:10

“That petition is so well-written,so witty and so self-deprecating that I cannot believe it was written by a woman. More likely it was a humorous gesture penned by a man wishing to gain some notoriety in the king’s court.”

It is possible that a witty gay male convinced the women to let him write the petition and while he was seemingly flattering the women he was in actuality have a good laugh at them.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
Cyclotron Majesty April 15, 2011 at 15:10

Wwoow. Reading this is a fatal takedown to any argument for 1 thousand or 2 thousand year “patriarchy”. These bitches are more sassy and brazen than a rejected whore. They way the talk down to their men, demanding they return to their servitude is priceless attestation to my theory of the Matrix.

Folks we live in a Matriarchy, and we always have, and frankly, we always will.

If you want to really know the truth. Here is how you unlock the book of secrets: Take every feminist issue or line and make it a men’s issue, by turning it on it’s head.

This is what the feminists do with cunning precision, in order to stifle and stopgap every awakening of men’s consciousness. The reason men don’t wake up is because we know women are by nature unaccountable and it’s hopeless to bother.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
Angus McQueen April 15, 2011 at 15:45

It’s interesting to note the earthy and bawdy language used in this proclamation. People would think that such language would never have been used in a proclamation to be given to the King of England at this time 1674; but this was the time of Charles ll who was invited back to England to become king upon the death of the religious fanatic Oliver Cromwell. Charles was known as the “Merrie Monarch” , in reference to both the liveliness and hedonism of his court and the general relief at the return to normality after over a decade of rule by Oliver Cromwell and the Puritans.
Charles had no children by his wife but is believed to have had at least 12 illegitimate children through his mistresses. I guess it was back to “business as usual” in the style of the liberal Elizabethan times once Cromwell was dead and buried.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Avenger April 15, 2011 at 15:49

Females have always wanted to prohibit anything that men like and any all male clubs or places when men want to socialise and also saloons where men were exposed to hotter and younger females than their wives. Females are basically anti male and want their full attention. They can’t stand being ignored which is why they always instigate drama and scenes. You’ll notice that is was females who were behind the anti alcohol, smoking etc etc prohibitions because these were primarily male activities while there was never any campaign against opium (80% of opiate addicts were female) and even when opium became illegal except with a prescription it was really directed against the newly arrived Chinese men by the communist trade unions because they worked for less and were better workers (you can be sure that there were females behind this too and instigating hysteria against the Chinese men accusing them of raping white females who frequented the opium dens)
BTW, I think that Women’s Petition Against Coffee is a fake or more likely written by a man as satire. Charles and other kings did want to close places where men met because they were always afraid of sedition and conspiracies but the new coffeehouses like Lloyd’s were mostly places to conduct business. Lloyd’s of course became the insurance exchange Lloyd’s of London where the various sydicates do business and it’s funny but even to this day they still use the old words they used in the coffeehouse like waiter etc.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
morepork April 15, 2011 at 16:41

Simon, SingleDad is suggesting the legalisation of brothels, which is quite a different proposition from legalising street walking.

We have many legal brothels here, they’re normally placed in commercial or industrial areas, with discrete tasteful signage. (Even though its legal, most guys don’t want to be seen walking into a building with “WHORES” in 40 foot neon on the outside.) Because its legal, they have council inspections, and have to meet health-codes.
If they have a drunk or violent customer, the girls can call the police.
Generally brothels advertise online, or in a handful of newspapers, portraying themselves as either a “gentlemens club”, or “massage parlour”, and they try to keep a low profile for the benefit of their customers. There have even been a few amusing news stories about people being shocked to find out that the building nextdoor to them has been operating as brothel for the last 5 years. (ie It took the neighbors 5 years to notice.)
All in all legalised brothels have no impact on most peoples daily lives.

Street prostitution is an entirely different matter. Here, street prostitutes are the ones who can’t get a job in a brothel. (ie They’ve been fired for drug use, theft, or they have a criminal record. Or they’re just damn ugly!). Street prostitutes harass pedestrians, have sex in cars parked on the side of the road, leave used condoms, used needles and empty alcohol bottles in shop doorways and peoples gardens.

Street prostitution is a scourge that should be stamped out!
Legalised brothels however, are actually a benefit to society, in that they massively cut down the amount of street prostitution.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
Carnivore April 15, 2011 at 17:49

Interesting. And what place of employment in the USA could operate without morning coffee.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Nico April 15, 2011 at 18:39

OT:

Six years’ jail for German who castrated daughter’s seducer:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1633290.php/Six-years-jail-for-German-who-castrated-daughter-s-seducer

You are better off cutting a man’s balls than having sex with a drunk girl who then claims rape.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Robert April 15, 2011 at 19:30

OT: The complaint against Mary N. Kellet

http://www.saveservices.org/wp-content/uploads/COMPLA1.pdf

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
blert April 15, 2011 at 19:55

That piece smacks of spoof.

It’s too witty to present to a monarch.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
dejour April 15, 2011 at 20:41

I’m not sure that the petition was completely serious.

But it’s not a recent document.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/apr/14/coffee-history-debate-dangerous-drug

http://rennaisscienceman.blogspot.com/2009/12/thank-god-things-changed.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
W.F. Price April 15, 2011 at 21:02

OT:

Six years’ jail for German who castrated daughter’s seducer:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1633290.php/Six-years-jail-for-German-who-castrated-daughter-s-seducer

You are better off cutting a man’s balls than having sex with a drunk girl who then claims rape.

-Nico

Yeah, it’s barbaric. They should hang the son of a bitch. As a dad, would I only get six years for performing a garage hysterectomy with a bowie knife on an older woman who had sex with my teenage son? Here in the states I’d get at least 20, I’d assume.

My bet is the father was screwing his daughter, and that’s why he was so upset — he was jealous.

classic Joe April 15, 2011 at 21:38

Fighting the power is hard. you get your ass kicked. Scared to death. It breaks you down over time. People with power and no soul learn about the best ways to break people in any context.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
TomJW April 15, 2011 at 21:53

Paradoxotaur April 15, 2011 at 11:13

Ugh. For sheer brutality, that women you found the story on wins feminist mom-of-the-year.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
E April 15, 2011 at 23:24

quote SingleDad:
“I’m also going to say something controversial. Brothels need to be legalized in the United States and this needs to be a pillor of the men’s rights movement. The feminist monopoly on the supply of affection and confort to men must end.”

I have something even more controversial to say, I wish the men’s rights movement spent more time promoting prostitution than game.

Feminists try to take advantage of men.
Men who practice game try to take advantage of women.
The two have more in common then they realize, they’re both trying to exploit other people.

Prostitution is about creating a middle ground where BOTH sides get a ***FAIR*** agreement. Besides in today’s world, even when considering the cost of prostitution is artificially inflated due to being criminalize, it’s still a much cheaper way to get sex than marriage. Now imagine if it was legalized. The cost would drop to 25cents on the dollar.

At prices like that whatever power feminists have would be broken and they would be on their knees. *figuratively speaking of course*

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
W.F. Price April 16, 2011 at 00:43

I have something even more controversial to say, I wish the men’s rights movement spent more time promoting prostitution than game.

-E

You really think prostitution needs more promotion?

I thought women were doing a fine job of that themselves…

Nico April 16, 2011 at 00:48

@Singledad and E

I agree with you both. There are plans to criminalize buying sex in France right now and I’ve been reading a lot on the subject.

I ‘ve come to the same conclusion than you.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Avenger April 16, 2011 at 01:03

Dad-it sounds like you’re not too successful with the females. Why are you promoting the idea that females should be paid for sex? Females owe men sex at the very least because men have provide the nice lifestyle and modern comforts that they have. And females should be grateful that a man would waste his valuable time, give them some attention and shag them. Every female that I have ever shagged has thanked me when they were leaving.
btw, I’m just curious, do most of you on here always get thanked after shagging a girl or do I somehow just get the very polite ones?

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Avenger April 16, 2011 at 01:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I5oiqRlej4&NR=1

I think we should stop referring to certain females as feminists. Just call them ballbusters :)

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hope the posting thing works now April 16, 2011 at 02:43

Wow! This may well be the post I’ve ever read on this site.

Before all else, a brief Google search shows that the petition is a historical fact, not a hoax. You’ll get lots of sources and even male responses.

I only know a single other story that is as telling about the nature of women (or feminists, in that case), the one about the Order of the White Feather. (Exactly the same women who were demanding the right to vote in a country that did not have universal male suffrage at the time shamed men into cannon fodder.)

This new story might be very effective because it touches many subjects. It can be told in contexts outside of the men’s rights discourse.

1.) There is the whole history of drugs and stimulants, and the effect they have had on societies in earlier centuries. Someone has mentioned opium. (I didn’t know that it was consumed by women mainly – does anyone know why?) Apparently there used to be opium dens in London Limehouse in the late 19th century, and there were soon stories of Chinese scoundrels taking advantage of passed out white women. (This is being told as an example of ‘racist talk’ reflecting fear of the Other and other men stealing our girls etc. But it is also rape fantasy.) Then there was the “gin epidemic” in the 18th century. Lots of drunken women on London’s streets. Later on, the city became the first to have a police force (as opposed to armed guards or soldiers). Conclusion: far from being the pure little ladies, women consumed heavy drugs to the point that they put themselves into, ahem, adventurous situations or became a public nuisance. On the very same streets where pressgangs were “recruiting” drunken sailors for the navy, by the way.

2.) Second, it reveals women’s attitude towards male socializing. They have issues with men doing a men’s only thing. (This does not necessarily imply that women are excluded. It is enough that men pay attention to each other rather than to women.) So they try to put it down but they will get jealous if it gives men pleasure or satisfaction (‘makes them smug’). The petition states explicitly that women assume “prerogatives” – duties for men, which they are neglecting. Women’s gut response is condensed into a single word, “shouldn’t”. These things must be stopped, period. And they go about it by the usual method, appealing to the alpha male.

3.) Thus, third, the petition shows how women argue against male-only activities. They:
- present themselves as needy victims (appealing to sympathy).
- present the activity as a threat to the power they appeal to (fear).
- flatter how much they need their men (vanity)
- tarnish the participating men as unmanly (shame)

Clearly, it does not matter to them what they say as long as it induces those feelings in the alpha male. In 1674 they want more sex and call it a man’s duty, on other occasions their pretence is more prude. It’s funny that they were appealing to something they called “Glorious Reformation” a few years before the Glorious Revolution!

The result can be that the targets will be seen a threat to public morals and order, just like the internet today or the theatre at Shakespeare’s time (where men pissed down from gallery and women would not go). Another effective tactic is to tarnish the socialization as unconscious or closet homosexuality. I have heard white knights shudder at the idea of English men’s clubs where women are explicitly kept out. (I actually think that the term “male bonding” is part of this shaming, there no pendant for women-only socializing. But I’m not a native speaker.)

4.) Fourth, the petition stems from pre-feminist times. It supports the argument that modern feminism is not a movement to correct perceived discriminations. Rather, it is the modern face of an age-old campaign to ensure that women are “kept well” which requires them to control what men are allowed to do and what they aren’t.

5.) Finally, the story tells us that there has always been MGTOW, even in wedlock. Check out this link: http://www.gopetition.com/famous-petitions-in-history/232/the-women-s-petition-against-coffee-1674.html.

(Quote) Men tried to fight the accusation of impotence by saying coffee “rather assists us by drying up those crude flatulent humours, which otherwise would make us only flash in the pan, without doing that thundering execution which your expectations exact.” They also said home wasn’t the most fun place to be: “You may well permit us to talk abroud, for at home we have scarce time to utter a word for the insufferable din of your active tongues.” The protesting women didn’t accomplish much; it reached the point where newspapers and mail were delivered to coffeehouses rather than homes. (Unquote)

This casts a whole new light on the entire coffee house culture. I used to believe that this was a typical Viennese phenomenon where you could reach intellectuals in their usual café (if the waiter allowed you to approach the table), never at home. The café was the ideal place for people who needed other people around to be alone, someone said, meaning that they could focus on their work without suffering the isolation of a lonely chamber. No tattling, but real intellectual breakthroughs? That’s dangerous!

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christianj April 16, 2011 at 03:25

Bill, check your mail..

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criolle johnny April 16, 2011 at 04:12

Did I catch that part right … “lusty LADS” who were SEVEN OR EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS OLD, fathering children?
“when Lusty Ladds of seven or eight hundred
years old, Got Sons and Daughters;”?!

Spanish men were prohibited by LAW from “hitting that” more than NINE times a night? Lydia, by the gods above!* Getting Lydia’s Number Translations from Horace by Franklin P. Adams
http://www.mgilleland.com/fpahor.htm

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woggy April 16, 2011 at 04:14

Very funny.
Who knew that men drinking coffee would have women begging for sex?

All the money wasted on roses, dinners, nauseating “sensitivity”- and how can we overlook the prolific whiteknighting- just trying to get sex.
I guess I’ll take mine black. (coffee, that is)

@Lara
“You are really stretching for stuff to write about here.”
Stretching or not, he’s doing a better job of it than you obviously would.

Maybe we should see an article about doorknobs with names like “Lara”.

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DCM April 16, 2011 at 04:19

“hope the posting thing works now
April 16, 2011 at 02:43
…..a brief Google search shows that the petition is a historical fact, not a hoax…..
…..the petition stems from pre-feminist times. It supports the argument that modern feminism is not a movement to correct perceived discriminations. Rather, it is the modern face of an age-old campaign to ensure that women are “kept well” which requires them to control what men are allowed to do and what they aren’t.
…….”

Western women are not now nor have they ever been oppressed except, to a degree, during the aptly named Golden Age of Greece.
Rather, Western dynamics can be seen not so much as a struggle between West and East, though that has gone back and forth for millennia, but between men’s efforts to maintain and improve a stable society and women’s efforts to tear it down with their primitive and selfish egoism.
I wonder if those times when Western civilization was on the defensive, as now, were times when women’s influence was strongest.

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Avenger April 16, 2011 at 04:34

Someone has mentioned opium. (I didn’t know that it was consumed by women mainly – does anyone know why?)

Because every time they some minor female complaint they would take some patent medicine that usually contained opium tincture. Later the ingredients were listed on the bottles but even before they knew what they were buying at the chemist. Even though prescriptions were not required doctors still wrote them anyway which is how we know about consumption and also since it was legal there was no reason to hide the amounts imported or the amounts grown by the Shakers in upstate NY(most people don’t know it’s an annual and will grow in many places in the US) Morphine was eventually separated from the opium and a doctor invented the hypodermic syringe (incidently, his wife was the first IV morphine addict lol)
Females are very self indulgent, they just hide it better. No respectable female would go into a pub or bar to buy alcohol but men like Johnnie Walker (scotch) began selling it in grocery stores so they could pick up a bottle while food shopping.
Even today, the majority of people who take psychoactive drugs like prozac etc are females and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s causing a lot of their irrationality over and above what they normally are.It does tend to make people insensitive emotionally and callous.

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Aharon April 16, 2011 at 06:49

Wikipedia:
Women and the English coffeehouse

“Historians depict coffeehouses as a gentlemanly sphere where men could partake in conversation and where a man could be safe from his womenfolk;[49] coffeehouses were consequently not a place for a lady who wished to preserve her respectability.[51] As such, complaints against the coffeehouse were commonly vocalised by women.[52]”

full article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_coffeehouses_in_the_seventeenth_and_eighteenth_centuries

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Seamus the Classicist April 16, 2011 at 07:51

I’ve seen this mug Price, and agree. I think of all my runs ins with the law over the issue of drinking, mind you misdeminor citations for public intoxication. My friends have too, and under the definition of law, the ancient customs, and tradition we ask, “when the hell has drinking alcohol been an offense to the state?” Never! But we live under a Bitch-Tyranny Matriarchy which introduces assinine statutes meant to interfer with certain functions of the male body politic.

Case in point, I am facing a citation for public drunkeness. Yes, some jerk breaks my jaw and the representatives of the Bitch-Tyranny cite me and ignore the felony of assault. In Rome, that was known as “insult to injury.” Part of what prompted the authorities to act in such a manner was some little cunt running her mouth.

Truth is, Cops need to man up and get real jobs or become real men who engage in entrepenuralship instead of sucking at the government teat.

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BeijaFlor April 16, 2011 at 08:38

(twists his silver straw into his leather-wrapped gourd of yerba maté and takes a reflective sip of the pungent, caffeinated “tea of the gauchos”)

Imagine how the English ladies would have railed about instant coffee.

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Keyster April 16, 2011 at 08:53

My great grand mother was a very active member of the Temperance movement in the Philadelphia area from around 1904 to 1908. I forget the name of the actual organization but they were VERY involved in making alcohol illegal….or against men having fun of any kind, obtsensibly at the expense of women and children.

And yes, she was the ball-busting matriarch of the family.
My lineage is one of strong outspoken women (ie – recalcitrant bitches).

For those of you that think all this feminist/gender war crap is new, it’s been around forever among the urban elite. Instead of social and family pressure though, it’s now a matter of UNEQUAL protection under the law.

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Temporal April 16, 2011 at 11:27

It’s interesting to know how feminists since the beginning try to ban men’s gathering places.

You know, coffeehouses, pubs and places when men can talk about everything and these ideas could be dangerous for the status quo.

When women gather together is more like a henhouse.

Women have envy of us, and they will until the end of time.

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phil white April 16, 2011 at 16:15

I’d concur with Opus, this petition sounds like it was something written in jest. Very much doubt you could find 10 women to sign it.
As to prohibition in Northern Europe, supposedly Northern Europeans were late comers to alcohol. It was much more drunk as wine in the Mediterranean basin for thousands of years. Supposedly there was an add on mutation developed in that region which allowed people to more efficiently metabolize alcohol. The result being alcoholism is pretty much unknown among Italians, so I’m told.
Northern European households had to put up with many more drunken fall down fathers, as my great grand. Thus the temperance movement could have understandably got bigger there.

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phil white April 16, 2011 at 16:22

From previous young poster: “it’s now a matter of UNEQUAL protection under the law.”

Yea. Around 35 years ago a Tampa Tribune article baldly admitted the reason women were included in Democratic party driven affirmative action laws was to divde the 80% white voting block, otherwise affirmative action wouldn’t have stood a chance.
Once the Democats brought women in as a part of their coalition there was no going back. Thus along came draconian family law stacked against men.

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Curiepoint April 16, 2011 at 16:43

Gotta love the statement about being cuckolded by dildos.

I thought I was going to choke on my cup o’ joe.

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Avenger April 16, 2011 at 20:45

phil- I just want to clarify something.Everyone had alcohol. Anything with sugar in it can be fermented into alcohol. Grapes were used because they’re high in sugar but in the north they still had honey and grains grow even when it’s too cool for many other crops. They’re malted which converts the starch into sugar which is then fermented and made into beer etc Even milk can be fermented into koumiss which is what the Mongols drank and even though it’s low in alcohol I’m sure they knew the freeze distilation method(water freezes at a lower temp. so the alcohol is left) Then, there have always been vineyards along the Rhine and other areas and in fact the Germans drank wine long before beer. There are vineyards today in England and there were even more in the middle ages when the temps. were a few degrees higher. But the biggest thing to consider is that wine was the #1 commodity shipped so even if you lived in the far north you still got it.In fact, even today a ship’s cargo capacity is measured in tonnes (wine barrels)
They also knew how to distil wine into brandy but I guess they didn’t like it because it was too rough, sort of like moonshine. The Dutch were shipping wine from the Cognac area but the wine there is very thin so they got the idea of distilling it, shipping it and then adding water after it arrived to turn it back into wine again. Well of course, after spending time in barrel it wasn’t too bad to drink on its own and that’s how Cognac became popular.

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Common Monster April 17, 2011 at 07:15

Not to be picky, but water freezes at a higher temp, leaving the alcohol still liquid. That’s the home method for making ‘hard’ cider (from apples or other fruit).

Fermentation also removes all the oxygen from the product, even if the manufacturing process doesn’t involve boiling, which is why it keeps for a decent length of time without refrigeration until the keg is popped. It’s essentially a food preservation method, which was practiced widely. I’ve gotten to have freshly crushed Napa cab grape juice, and it was a shame it had to be made into wine.

Three times as much distilled spirits per capita was consumed at the time of the American Revolution compared to now, so the temperance broads were in some sense just the forefront of the iceberg, a good chunk of their goal was in fact realized — mostly this was incidental to anything they did. They were mostly trying to insure that working class men got home with their paychecks in order that their wives and children got all of it. Had to keep the guy firmly in the harness at all times. This was the same original rationale behind anti-prostitution laws, too. The “reasoning” has morphed along the way, but the goal hasn’t really changed.

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Avenger April 17, 2011 at 14:21

Not to be picky, but water freezes at a higher temp

Yeah that’s what I meant. lol The water freezes before the alcohol. I guess I was thinking of the boiling temp of water andalcohol when I wrote that which is a good reason to never drink a little voda (vodka) when writing something haha

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Avenger April 17, 2011 at 14:43

Three times as much distilled spirits per capita was consumed at the time of the American Revolution

By today’s standards they would all have been considered alcoholics.
Of course this was only 200 yrs. ago so they had distilled spirits and all of the rum distilleries were in New England at that time from the molasses from the West Indies. Not to mention the Dutch gin in NY and alcohol made from everything else they could get their hands on-apples, pears, and the native grapes which of course are not the wine grape but you could still make something or then distil it into brandy.
It’s odd though that no one was ever trying to ban opium and you hardly even hear anything about it even though the species of poppy (papaver somniferum) that produces it will grow in all areas of the colonies. It wasn’t until the Chinese male workers came to the US (about 50% of them smoked it) that it was suddenly a “menace”

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Avenger April 17, 2011 at 15:35

Seamus writes, I’ve seen this mug Price, and agree. I think of all my runs ins with the law over the issue of drinking, mind you misdeminor citations for public intoxication

In the US public intoxication is not a crime. The US Supreme Court ruled on this years ago and as the highest court where the decisions cannot be appealed it is final.
But what happens is that cops don’t charge a person with simply being intoxicated and peacefully walking down the street but with some nonsense like disorderly conduct. Many people are charged with ‘crimes’ even when no crime has been committed and it’s really a way of harassing someone. Even if the charges are dropped the person usually hires a lawyer and in many cases had to put up bail so cops are basically using a pretext to not enforce the actual law but to enforce the wishes of the local (usually female) citizens. You see this sort of pressure to conform a man’s behaviour, which is perfectly lega,l because the females don’t like it all of the time.
Let’s take one example, the age of consent. If the age of consent is 16 then a man regardless of his age, he can be a 100, has violated no law by shagging her and he can’t be charged with a crime. Of course, the local ballbusters can’t stand the idea of an older man and a young woman and may complain to the cops. No crime has been committed so they have to come up with some pretext they can use against the guy so the cops being stupid white knights and manginas will come up with something like “corrupting the morals of a minor” lol
This sounds bad but usually means something like the guy kept the girl out too late at night or she neglected to do her homework.

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Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) April 21, 2011 at 10:35

hope the posting thing works now April 16, 2011 at 02:43

They also said home wasn’t the most fun place to be: “You may well permit us to talk abroud, for at home we have scarce time to utter a word for the insufferable din of your active tongues.”

Hysterical….yes…anyone who thinks that women have ‘suddenly gone bad’? I have some news for you.

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