Men’s Liberation Through “Game”

by Delusion Damage on March 18, 2011

The fundamental contract between the sexes, put down in law as the institution of marriage, unchanged for countless generations, was essentially this: the man provides the woman with food and shelter which she is unable to acquire on her own, and the woman in exchange provides the man with sex and children which he is unable to acquire on his own. It was understood in what’s called “the spirit of the law” that the wife was entitled to access to the husband’s income and whatever material wealth came thereof, and that the husband was entitled to access to his wife’s reproductive system and whatever offspring came thereof.

The contract worked great for a long time, but like all good things, it eventually came to an end.

The “women’s liberation” movement liberated women from their part of the deal – today men (as the majority of taxpayers) are bound by law to support women (as the majority of recipients of welfare, affirmative action, divorce settlements, alimony, child support, and other gender-biased wealth transfer programs in a similar vein), but women by law owe men nothing in return.

Even within marriage, only one side of the contract has survived: in the event of divorce, the high-earning spouse (usually male) is bound by law to support the low-earning spouse (usually female) through aforementioned wealth transfer programs, but he is not entitled to custody of children or monthly payments in the form of sexual access, which is what the logical counterpart of alimony would be.

Why do men continue to take such a devil’s deal?

Overwhelmingly, the answer seems to be what it has always been: for sexual access. When a man has managed to get hold of a decently tolerable and OK-looking woman who’s giving it to him on the regular – not an easy accomplishment for most men, given the sorry state of the supply of young women – the woman usually can, and usually will, pressure him into marriage using an implicit or explicit threat of withholding the supply of sex he’s worked so hard for. Most men cave and take the deal, bad as it is.

There are happy marriages, of course, where both parties genuinely want to commit to each other for life through an age-old ritual in front of their communities and families, and be recognized by law as a unit, and maybe some of them never regret it – but it takes only a cursory look at divorce statistics to conclude that these happy marriages are in the minority. Most marriages are not like that – most people settle. Most men don’t particularly want to get married – they only do it because their wives want it, and why shouldn’t they! The wives have everything to gain by marrying, the husbands nothing but the assumed promise of a continued supply of sex – and that promise is often broken once the papers have been signed.

Now there’s even “rape within marriage” – the final word on exactly what rights the law thinks a husband has in a marriage. When before the wife’s sexuality was his property which he bought by fulfilling his part of the deal, he is today still forced to pay the price but no delivery of goods is guaranteed.

With women long since liberated from having to offer sex in exchange for the husband’s resources (labor, income, wealth etc.), we are now living a time where men are finding liberation from having to offer women resources in exchange for sex.

This facet of “men’s liberation” comes in the form of a practice commonly known as “Game” – the scientific study of how to make oneself so attractive to women that they will offer one sex for free.

“Game” removes the main pressure forcing men into unwanted marriage by ensuring abundant sexual access to a variety of desirable women without having to trade them anything substantial in return. A man skilled in “game” feels much, much less inclined to marry than a sexually frustrated man trying to hold onto the one woman special enough to open her legs for him.

The common ground between the “game” sphere and the men’s rights sphere is obvious: men’s rights advocates have a need – the need to reduce the unilateral enslavement of men through marriage – and advocates of “game” have a solution that will do it. Many young men ignorant of “game” would take, and as the statistics show, are taking, a marriage with sex and unfairly stacked divorce laws over no marriage and no sex – but few young men would take any marriage over the prospect of free and abundant sex with a variety of attractive partners.

The benefits of “game” to the men’s movement don’t stop there. The delusional belief that wealth built up through hard work in the soul-sucking corporate machines of our time is required to attract women is endemic among men – learning “game” changes that. A man who learns “game” has little incentive to continue being the taxpayer who supports women living on gender-biased government handout programs. The more men learn “game”, the more the government must curtail its expenses.

“Game” is also beneficial to men as individuals. A demanding self-improvement effort, it tends to draw its practitioners onto constructive paths in life that lead them to improve their circumstances in other ways as well. Self-improvement gets into the blood of a man who practices “game” regularly, and this is evident in those men who have reached the highest levels of game. They have not only acquired a skill set but have undertaken an effort to rebuild themselves from the ground up, deprogramming the harmful delusions feminized society raised them into and finding out for themselves what it means to be a man and how to be the best men they can be – the experience of practicing “game” provides such a stark contrast against the lies a man is fed by our culture and education system that it automatically wakes him up to question more and more of what he’s been told. He stops buying the party line and learns to think for himself about how he really should live his life, learning to ignore popular propaganda about what a man should be and how he should act – another goal close to the heart of any men’s rights activist.

If men’s liberation is a strategic goal, encouraging them to learn “game” should be a tactical one. Its positive impact on men’s rights in the real world is simply too great not to be utilized.

Delusion Damage specializes in exploring the hidden causes of everything and figuring out how to make a lifetime as a man in the modern world the best it can possibly be.

{ 192 comments… read them below or add one }

AfOR March 18, 2011 at 05:06

Game is not making yourself attractive to the opposite sex.

If it is, it is a crock.

What you need to do is de-program yourself of all the illusions that YOU have about the opposite sex, once liberated from this burden of bullshit, getting laid is both simple, and valued (by the man) correctly, a fuck is a fuck, nothing more.

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Poiuyt March 18, 2011 at 05:14

Why cannot Games exponents not talk and teach us more about methods of gamming the Government and the State?

Afterall, the State and Governments of genderist socieies are the main culprits in deliberately misconstruing and mismanaging females natural expectations of their mates and their males.

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alpha March 18, 2011 at 05:49

uh, question about game….

if you try to game a girl, a big idiotic thug beats the crap outta ya, coz he wants her?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 22
oddsock March 18, 2011 at 05:49

@AfOR

I agree and seeing as I am having a bible thumper phase today I thought I would add something from Proverbs. Quite odd considering I try follow the Buddha teachings. All roads lead to Rome I suppose?

Proverbs 7:1-27

My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.

Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.

Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.

For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,

And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,

Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,

In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:

And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

(She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:

Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)

So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,

I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.

Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.

I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt.

I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.

Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.

For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:

He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.

With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.

He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;

Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.

Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.

Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.

For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.

Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

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Delusion Damage March 18, 2011 at 05:52

@Afor

What you need to do is de-program yourself of all the illusions that YOU have about the opposite sex, once liberated from this burden of bullshit, getting laid is both simple, and valued (by the man) correctly

This IS what the process of learning “game” is about.

attractive to the opposite sex.

This is its result.

@ Poiuyt

Why cannot Games exponents not talk and teach us more about methods of gamming the Government and the State?

Because the Gov’t and State have no emotions.

Delusion Damage March 18, 2011 at 05:56

@alpha
Those situations can be handled. I’m not going to get into the specifics here right now because this article is not about that. What you’re looking for is “AMOG tactics” or “boyfriend destroyer”, Google is your friend.

MWPeak March 18, 2011 at 06:02

A tasty piece of wisdom (given in the Elizabethan English, before Feminism took over the Bible translating world):

“Give not thy strength unto women, Nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.” – Proverbs 31:3

It is interesting to note that the Christian Feminist movement loves to talk and write books about the “Proverbs 31 Woman,” but they fail to mention that initial warning … hmm.

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Opus March 18, 2011 at 06:30

I am once again, still none the wiser, as to what Game is.

I do, however, know a little Game Theory. Every game has at least one Nash Equilibrium: If you cheat me by playing Hawk, next time I will play Hawk too. We both lose. I will only start playing Dove again when you show me that you are now playing Dove – if then atall.

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AlphA March 18, 2011 at 06:36

Learning Game is like becoming more intelligent– you get to correct your mistakes, but you also get to witness pretty much everyone else’s (read: men who aren’t well-versed in Game) mistakes. The worst part is that there are men out there who blatantly REFUSE to be opened up to Game.

Guess Beta-tude dies hard.

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oddsock March 18, 2011 at 06:55

Just a thought and slightly off topic I suppose. As the internet spreads ever increasing information along with transparancy, it is self evident that those with the most power are losing it. Many are ducking and diving trying to cling onto power and influence. Obviously one of these groups of people with power are the feminists but I think there power will disappear without a trace once the money is gone and they are of no use to the governments any longer.

Right, My point being, the internet is causing/enabling all this huge shift in power simply through the rapid flow of information. It is probably quite clear to many that women in general are also having the information spotlight focus on them and like never before ?

I foresee very shitty times ahead for a lot or women as the pendulum swings back with a vengance.

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oddsock March 18, 2011 at 06:57

@AlphA

The worst part is that there are men out there who blatantly REFUSE to be opened up to Game.

Guess Beta-tude dies hard.

Or maybe they are just smarter than the average bear ?

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Delusion Damage March 18, 2011 at 07:00

@ Opus

I am once again, still none the wiser, as to what Game is.

That’s why I put in all those links to a page I’d previously written for the very purpose of explaining what Game is…

@AlphA

The worst part is that there are men out there who blatantly REFUSE to be opened up to Game.

The rich get richer and the poor… well, you know what happens to the poor.

Traveller March 18, 2011 at 07:33

Nice picture in this article.

Poiuyt, women game the state:
– enslave the men for protecting children
- marriage is a must for men
- men needs to man up and work more and pay more taxes

If you want game the state follow the worst part of the society:
- committ any crime and claim racism/sexism
- declare your blog is leftist and receive public money

Opus, Game NOT equal to Game Theory.

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demirogue March 18, 2011 at 07:56

Once again the mistake with game is that it can’t make-up for the lopsided laws. Game women all you want to but don’t expect anything good to come of it in the long run. After all, it is a game of manipulation but one day when the game is over, who is going to be the winner or loser? Or more to the point, who has the laws behind them and who doesn’t?

Another thing now is more and more often I’m running into women that publicly threaten me with violence and many assume that men are going to sit there and take a beating. Why are they not afraid of it and why do they think men will sit there and allow themselves to be assaulted? Understand guys that women have run amok and if the game entails trying to keep many of them under control, I’m afraid that a lot of men are in for a shock.

Forget gaming the twats, beat the shit out of them instead if it comes down to it as they have no fear of repercussions or consequences anymore. And guys, you can’t game that.

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Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 08:02

Learn ballroom and partner dance. Never, ever participate in demasculizing club or hip-hop gyrations. If you’re not holding them close and talking to them you might as well just go home and jack off in front of your PC. Wear clean, polished shoes with matching belt. Gabardine trousers. Good looking shirt color-coordinated with your skin tone. Cultivate an indifferent attitude. Travel abroad. Study the Ancients : Bogart, Flynn, Gable, Biederbecke, Ellington, Bichet, Modigliani. Mimic their excesses; fake it till you make it. Learn at least three guitar chords and how to make passable etchings.

Roger affirmative : recognize your programming and recompile your operating system. Everything you believe was coded by clever folks to enslave you towards their retirement fund. Fight back while appearing to cooperate. Deface their motivational posters. Tolerate no cellulite.

Just the gabardine slacks alone will propel you past the competition, like a whirly-gig fishing lure.

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Opus March 18, 2011 at 08:17

I’d like to reply to Delusional Damage for indeed he does link to explanations of Game – indeed from his own Blog, which I frequently look at anyway!

I would put it this way:

WHEREAS:

Women are undoubtedly attracted to Alpha-Males – which by-the-way always puts pay to their constant ‘I am not that sort of girl’ refrain – oh yes they are!

NEVERTHELESS:

Those men tend to be at the peak of their physical attractiveness and manliness (say age 28-45). They tend to be very good looking and more importantly big and strong, but that in itself is not sufficient. What matters (and here I agree with the OP) is attitude, but that attitude seems to have been one they have been born with (nature and nurture) – how often do you not hear people say ‘I have known so and so since he was ten years old and he hasn’t changed a bit’!

FURTHERMORE

(in my experience)

1. You cannot be who you are not, and attempts to be what you are not are (like Andrew Agieucheek in Twelfth Night) going to lead to absurdities. Moreover (being better at being me rather than being you) I am happy when I play my own game – I accept of course that all courtship is a game. I want to play that Game – I don’t want you to give in too easily or for that matter too soon; that is to say I don’t want you to be a tease or a slut.

2. If everyone were Alpha then noone is Alpha. Like a soccer team, not everyone should or could be the centre-forward. The Goalkeeper has his part to play too. There are different roles. Eventually, I observe, most people pair-off and usually (it has to be said) with people they are more or less suited too.

3. The guys (and that is most of us) who are not Alpha finds other ways of enticing desirable females because by defintion an Alpha must constantly be passing-on or up, on otherwise desirable women.

4. It is just not the case that women always go for the Alpha type and women frequently see through the pretensions thereof. My own interest in such a woman frequently drops like a stone (their shallowness and easiness is just such a turn-off) – When they have had their short-time Love with the Alpha, I become hard to attract; their signalling won’t work; I don’t want his cast-offs and their reputation goes before them. They pay a heavy price!

SUMMATION:

The problem for guys today is that the cards are so-to-speak stacked against the average man, from False Rape-type allegations to Divorce and Abortion men have been pussified. If you are the gansta type with nothing to lose then of course you can throw caution to the wind but I imagine none of us here would fit into that category. In other words the Gov’t has created a situation where being really BAD is good. The Gov’t seems to encourage the very behaviour it claims to abhor. This seems to me to be a recipe for disaster and I can only imagine a later-day-Historian coming down particularily hard on the the Liberalism of the late 20th century as destructive of civilisation – we shall have to wait and see.

…and that is where Game Theory comes in.

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John Boy March 18, 2011 at 08:40

Learning game is an amteure persiut for the moment. It consists of individual men taking the initiative for personal gain and sometimes sharing what they learn with others. However the science behind all of this is going from the crawling stage and beginning to walk. As we continue to discect the human mind through modern chemistry and biology, game will only get stronger.

An off shoot of this, is the number of women that are dependent on anti-depressents or phycho-changing drugs. Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbuterin, are now being consumed like candy. Although I cannot back this up, my guess is it is primarialy women who are taking them. It is pretty clear that this war between the sexes is taking a toll on more than just the men.

Femminism is an ideology and it will be taken apart by science.

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Keyster March 18, 2011 at 08:50

OT:
“Barriers” to being a female airline pilot never existed.
It’s just “not that desirable” for women.
(Whereas being a stewardess IS desirable, evidently.)

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/03/18/female.airline.pilots/index.html?hpt=T2

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Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 08:53

A couple of other points.

R.Don Steele. He is the original codifier of game, and there have been many posers who ripped him off. Take a look at his reading list :

http://www.steelballs.com/bookstore.html

and his home page steelballs.com

Yeah, he’s selling them through Amazon but so is everyone else. You can probably find most of them free at your public library. Also, I have purchased many fine used books from Amazon for about the price of shipping ($3.98).

Another point : Salesmanship. How many of you guys have ever sold anything in your industry? If not, someone else did it for you. I strongly urge you to give a shot. Even dismal failure will teach you. Marginal success will fill your balls. When you make the sale, you’re a hero. When you fail, you’re a zero. The is no middle ground.

And often we get Centurions here who think that their retirement on the public dole qualifies them to speak on matters of import. Unless you have gotten your ass kicked in business you don’t have a clue. The military does not provide this type of experience and likely has trained you to get ass-r…ass-r…ass-reamed when you try.

Nothing personal, just recognize your weaknesses, and we all have bucketloads of them. There is no escape from this fundamental law of humanity.

Finally, be the real deal but inflate your resume as necessary to get the gig. Dishonest? Are companies that have HR departments honest with you? I noticed last time I got laid off that my supervisor’s brother-in-law didn’t get canned, nor did the useless husband of the HR director. Recognize their lies and sugar-coat your ass for easy ingestion.

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Ryu March 18, 2011 at 09:06

The way I see it, most “game” further enslaves men to women.

Game puts a man’s libido on a pedestal. I see genius in a man like Roissy, yet he spends his days and his posts on the laying of women. In the end, sex is such a small, little thing. You cannot lay in bed all day screwing. It offers no profit. The pleasure is fleeting.

I too, would like to improve using Game on the boss and the government. We use game on women to get what we want. Can we use Game to bend the will of others to our hand? To put the machinary of the state in our power?This is the true power of the concept.

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CM March 18, 2011 at 09:08

Interesting, I’ve been thinking about buying Rossiy’s book for a while… Perhaps game isn’t so false as I have thought… Surely one man will find his talents in an area different from another man. I’m beginning to see validity in discussing strategies.

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Opus March 18, 2011 at 09:11

Being an Airline Pilot is for pussies! I will believe that women want (and are capable of) equality when at least 50% of International Truck Drivers are female. Are there any? I doubt it.

Why (and I have never known) is being a trolley-dolly glamorous. It must be the uniform.

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MyLate40's March 18, 2011 at 09:15

Here’s what happened to me:

I went out with a very, very attractive young lawyer for a year and a half. She turned out to have a form of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and eventually I had to break up with her. She was with another guy on a weekend trip to New York within three weeks. Getting over it was painful and took a year. Finally, I did.

Cut to a year and a half after our breakup, and she contacts me. Apparantly she was putting out the feelers to see if I wanted to get back together (she did this while still with the other guy; you know what they say). Well, at first I was hesitant but then I decided to go for it – under the guise I would sex her until she turned back into the bat-shit crazy person I knew lurked beneath her. Well, that turned out to be about six months, though I dealt with her NPD in a new way since I had now become familiar with what it is all about.

She demanded marriage, and in this way: I must sell my house, and use the equity (I’m guessing I’m 150K ahead) to buy a new house for the two of us. Period. And if her house took a loss, I should be willing to help with that (believe, she messed up when she bought her house at the height of the real estate mess). So yeah, that was that. Meanwhile, I found out she had been contacting a new guy, so she started to treat me like dirt again. This time I saw it coming, and called her on it. She denied that she was courting him, threw me out of her house, the followed me to the car and punched me in the face as a last farewell.

That was a month ago. This was a very, very hot girl, I’d say a 9. (its not easy to walk away from that), with NPD and a lifetime of danger written all over her.

What made her come back and give me another year and a half of free sex littered with a little bit of crazy? I guess it was Game. I planted that seed when we broke up the first time, and while we were apart. That’s another story.

It was Game, albeit Dangerous Game.

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Firepower March 18, 2011 at 09:24

oddsock

I agree and seeing as I am having a bible thumper phase today I thought I would add something from Proverbs. Quite odd considering I try follow the Buddha teachings. All roads lead to Rome I suppose?

Proverbs 7:1-27

lmfao, a Proverbs quote gets negged, which reveals the quality of Jareds around here.

Quote Slipknot or Lil’ Wayne and Jared will “unnastan it.”

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Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 09:33

“She demanded marriage, and in this way: I must sell my house, and use the equity (I’m guessing I’m 150K ahead) to buy a new house for the two of us.”

Seriously we need to push for IMBRA-like legislation requiring American women to detail their finances as well as all romantic laisons complete with police reports from every place they have lived since the age of 18 before they are allowed to discuss marriage with anyone.

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Anonymous Reader March 18, 2011 at 09:48

To me as middle aged man there are two things about Game that are useful: first, in my own LTR there has been a definite improvement in many ways, and truthfully to some extent I’ve just reverted to some personality traits that I had years ago.

Second, Game takes care of not only any pedestalizing tendencies, it shreds the old “men and women are the same except women can have babies” nonsense that feminists peddled for years, and some still throw around. Women’s sexuality is different from men’s, and as my dear old father used to say, “vive l’differance”. Women’s meanness is generally different from men’s as well, and that is worth knowing.

Game makes it clear that any man who puts a woman on a pedestal, or who assumes that she’s more moral than he is, is not only fooling himself, he’s setting himself up for any of several bad results.

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RedPill March 18, 2011 at 09:50

All else being equal, Game works if one is looking to get laid.

The question however is, what’s next? When I was a teenager, I would have done anything to get laid but now that I’m middle-age even wasting a couple hours with a bitchy bitch is just not worth it.

In the end, is the prize worth the effort? The answer changes depending on where one is in life.

On Confidence:

I think ACTING confident is the very definition of being NOT confident. If one is a bumbling nervous wreck when talking to a girl for the first time, being confident is not being afraid of being a bumbling nervous wreck and approaching women nevertheless.

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Lyn87 March 18, 2011 at 09:52

And often we get Centurions here who think that their retirement on the public dole qualifies them to speak on matters of import. Unless you have gotten your ass kicked in business you don’t have a clue. The military does not provide this type of experience and likely has trained you to get ass-r…ass-r…ass-reamed when you try.

@ Uncle Elmer,

I guess I’m one of those Centurions you’re talking about. I’ve known a few salesmen in my time, and the naturals do have a way about them that seemed to work with the lasses. They were certainly FAR better at picking up skanks than I ever was or, frankly, ever wanted to be.

But I have a lot of things they lack as well. I am a natural leader, while they were just cocky naturals at Game. Many years in uniform helped me hone that in ways few salesmen will ever understand and fewer still will master. At the end of the day they end up with the kind of women guys like that end up with when their looks fade and the young hotties start to look at them like creepy older guys desperately hanging onto their youthful days as “playahz”- skanks looking for a meal ticket. On the other hand I ended up with an apex female who just brought me a grilled pastrami sandwich as I was typing this.

I’ve never regretted my path for a moment. I wonder how many of them would say the same as they write out the child-support check to some woman they’re no longer boffing or trolling bars looking for someone passably attractive who doesn’t look at them like the creepy older men they turned into.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 7
Lyn87 March 18, 2011 at 09:57

Seriously we need to push for IMBRA-like legislation requiring American women to detail their finances as well as all romantic laisons complete with police reports from every place they have lived since the age of 18 before they are allowed to discuss marriage with anyone.

@ Uncle Elmer,

PRICELESS!

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Old Guy March 18, 2011 at 10:11

@Lyn87

Military service teaches you at least half of Game. Manly bearing, strong eye contact, and fearlessness are tkarkers of male rank, and the hardest part of game for most intellectual dweebs to master. This is why it is strongly advised that Betas take up some form of manly contact sport, diet, and work out in parallel with learning how the human mating ritual works.

Game isn’t just for picking up chicks in bars. It seems that way because that is where many of the gurus learned their Game the hard way, and that is where the largest gathering on hotties who are in the mood can be found, but any time a man and woman interact, the Game is on.

You can use Game to get laid or to find a mate. Whoever you are, wherever you are, it improves your odds.

When players get older, they may not be doing many 20 year old 9s, but they will still be getting better quality women, and more often, than the freshly divorced guy their age who has no game.

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Old Guy March 18, 2011 at 10:13

tkarkers is a poorly typed version of markers.

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Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 10:19

Lyn87, when young men ask me about the military I try to put a positive spin on it and not let my personal failures pollute their life path. My old man did 20 + 20 more and my son may likely do some time.

I was institutionalized by the Army after only 3 years. Then carried a crap attitude with me for decades really. That was my failing, not the Army’s.

So here’s my observation, based on your comment “Many years in uniform helped me hone that in ways few salesmen will ever understand and fewer still will master.”

In the military this works as the whole structure is built on hierarchies of rule-following. In the business world, that is, when you are out there scratching for work and not proffering yourself as an “employee”, the dominant theme is that your opponent feels a patriotic duty to rip you off.

The salesman is a master of something more creative and dynamic than contrived leadership scenarios. He fights. He wins. He closes with the enemy and gets upfront and personal. He is doing something lonely and dangerous where the cost of failure is utter scorn and the spoils of victory are general disdain.

Anyway, thanks for taking the bait. Could wax eloquent on the military/business dichotomy.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4
TFH March 18, 2011 at 10:25

The way I see it, most “game” further enslaves men to women.

Game puts a man’s libido on a pedestal.

I see this meme popping up here and there, and it is garbage.

Was Einstein pedestalizing physics simply by mastering it?

Plus, the people who suggest this crap have no alternative to men other than ‘be celibate’. Yeah, that is going to gain traction. You might as well be a socialcon (shudder).

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 10
Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 10:27

Lyn87 I’ve never regretted my path for a moment.

Now this is a serious matter and one where you have it over me. Fifteen years ago I could have retired out of the Army had I made a career out of it. The military can be a crap shoot. My big mistake was going for some adventure vs worthwhile technical experience which I was well qualified to do. After my 3 years of : “Jazz Dance. Disco. Jazz. by Dazz” I had had enough.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
TFH March 18, 2011 at 10:29

If men’s liberation is a strategic goal, encouraging them to learn “game” should be a tactical one. Its positive impact on men’s rights in the real world is simply too great not to be utilized.

Absolutely.

The problem is, 80% of men and 99.9% of women just cannot, ever, comprehend Game.

They think Game is funny hats. If they progress beyond that, they think Game is picking up chicks in bars. If you explain the existence of many people like Hawaii Libertarian to them, they conveniently ignore that, and stick to their ‘bar sluts’ meme with great cowardice.

In reality, they don’t want to face up to the fact that their plight IS something they can partly correct. They would rather believe that it is beyond their control.

Roosh has talked about this a lot.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5
Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 10:36

This can be a big hurdle for Anglo fellows especially; the idea that game or salesmanship is about being fake.

It’s just packaging and psychology, which you are bombarded with daily in many forms.

Who programmed you to dress and and act the way you do? Look into yourself. Stretch your comfort zone.

Woody Allen as Bogart : “Somewhere along the line you got turned around. She’s supposed to smell good for you

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
chi-town March 18, 2011 at 10:40

“Why cannot Games exponents not talk and teach us more about methods of gamming the Government and the State?”

Because that is not the problem it is trying to solve. Why doesn’t a book about pluming go into electrical? There is plenty of information on that available anywhere from staying out of debt to survivalist training. Disciplines that focus on well defined, simple objects are the ones that work.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
by_the_sword March 18, 2011 at 10:43

Seriously we need to push for IMBRA-like legislation requiring American women to detail their finances as well as all romantic laisons complete with police reports from every place they have lived since the age of 18 before they are allowed to discuss marriage with anyone.

I don’t think that the government is going to leap to the aid of men, based on their past performance. You are right though in the notion that a woman’s past should be investigated. We’ll just have to do it on our own, in typical man-like fashion.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
zimmy March 18, 2011 at 10:45

…[she]followed me to the car and punched me in the face as a last farewell.

If she hurt her fist then you’d be considered an abuser.

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Firepower March 18, 2011 at 10:46

Game is only a means of seduction.

Certainly not an aspect of the “liberation” of men.
“Men” understand it will take a lot more ugly acts than a club pickup to liberate a damn thing.

Grow up.

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Firepower March 18, 2011 at 10:49

Ennobling “Game” as some magic bullet
that “like, frees men, man” is the fantasy savior belief of a child
who’s grown up on XBox Mythology.

Power up, dudes.
The Matrix loves you

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 3
Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 10:50

You are right though in the notion that a woman’s past should be investigated. We’ll just have to do it on our own, in typical man-like fashion.

I advised resume-inflation. If you are running a business definitely you should get a thorough background check on anyone you might hire or partner with. Grifters abound.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
The Private Man March 18, 2011 at 10:55

The problem is, 80% of men and 99.9% of women just cannot, ever, comprehend Game.

This.

And while willful ignorance and learned helplessness is frustrating to see in men, it works out for the minority of men who understand Game and its true meaning in a broader social context. If 80% of the guys aren’t willing to understand and learn Game, then it’s easier pickings for the men who do use Game.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 9
Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 10:55

The problem is, 80% of men and 99.9% of women just cannot, ever, comprehend Game.

This dovetails with Elmer’s Maxim :

Women are competing for jobs but are not creating them. Other than providing a mass market for their vanity products, they are not forging new industries or technologies. They are marginalizing that small percentage of men who passionately innovate, destroy, and create ideas and take the risks to drive them to actualization

Though men shank me and insult me, only men provide me with opportunity. Women can only insult me and deprive me of opportunity. Only men, and only a small fraction of them, take the risks that create industry and opportunity. Women can only serve as mere functionaries in man-created structures. When an organization becomes feminized, priority shifts from efficient and profitable production of goods and services to development of labarythine rules for the comfort and security of women. Ossification and organizational death are then inevitable.

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Nemo March 18, 2011 at 11:09

Am I overly cynical, or is “game” the human equivalent of guys searching on the Internet for “cheat codes” for their video games?

It’s both funny and a little pathetic that this stuff actually *works* on females to at least some degree.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 6
Yo March 18, 2011 at 11:14

For those who skimmed, instead of reading carefully:

“Game” removes the main pressure forcing men into unwanted marriage by ensuring abundant sexual access to a variety of desirable women without having to trade them anything substantial in return. A man skilled in “game” feels much, much less inclined to marry than a sexually frustrated man trying to hold onto the one woman special enough to open her legs for him.

The common ground between the “game” sphere and the men’s rights sphere is obvious: men’s rights advocates have a need – the need to reduce the unilateral enslavement of men through marriage – and advocates of “game” have a solution that will do it.

. . .

“Game” is also beneficial to men as individuals. A demanding self-improvement effort, it tends to draw its practitioners onto constructive paths in life that lead them to improve their circumstances in other ways as well. . . . They have not only acquired a skill set but have undertaken an effort to rebuild themselves from the ground up, deprogramming the harmful delusions feminized society raised them into and finding out for themselves what it means to be a man and how to be the best men they can be . . . to question more and more of what he’s been told.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 7
SingleDad March 18, 2011 at 11:20

OT

The emotional rectitude and compassion women show never ceases to amaze me /sarcasm

Today from a comment to a NYT article on Sad Dads, a piece about male depression after birth, similar to post partum depression.

Here is the comment:

You know what? I’ve had enough of sad dads. Maybe they don’t get media coverage, but they sure as hell soak up the attention in real life. No, they aren’t talking about depression. Instead they’re behaving like two-year-olds, poisoning atmospheres in the houses where the women are already juggling work and raising the children, producing Niagaras of self-pity, drinking, killing social events and the social connections the women rely on to keep the family going, and erratically and explosively trying to prove their manhood in ways that make giant messes for the women to clean up.

The reason? They don’t do the emotional homework and housekeeping. they don’t bother maintaining friendships. They don’t do any of their own emotional self-care. Instead — it’s someone else’s job. Whose? The woman’s! The woman should encourage them, the woman should understand the woman should pet them and never point out any problems or tasks left undone. The woman should magically take care of all.

Well, to hell with that. When I see that sad dads are actually doing what they can to take care of their depression, and choking off that unbelievable self-pity, I’ll have much, much, much more sympathy. But so far I’ve not seen that this is generally how the men do. And you know what? Push comes to shove, they admit it.

Of course written by a female:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/time-to-focus-on-sad-dads/?hp

I guess the appropriate response is:

“If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?”

From the Merchant of Venice by Billy Shakespeare.

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Unrewarded March 18, 2011 at 11:27

I agree with the fundamental idea that a woman cannot be allowed to dominate or come anywhere close to doing so in interpersonal relations. But I am not really that interested in game.

Firstly, as I’m sure we all know here, a woman isn’t worth as much as mainstream culture says she is. If you need climax, we guys all have and continue to have multiple ways to achieve that without having to impress a woman. If you need love (IMO, overrated), get a pet / friend or spend time with your family. The only resource a woman has for a guy today, if you think about it, is her ability to bring a child into the world and raise it; however, if you scan this website even briefly, you’ll see how much today’s women really care about doing that.

Secondly, I don’t want to have to waste days on end falsifying my personality and the essence of who I am to the general public simply to interest women. After I finish my college classes and homework for the day, the last thing I think about is wanting to do the aforementioned (and during the days when I have an actual career, I’m sure I’ll feel even more strongly about this). I’d much rather read a book, work out, play video games, watch baseball, or get some sleep. A quality lifestyle is far more important than spending years trying to perfect my Game at all costs like Game advocates suggest to people.

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Gunn March 18, 2011 at 11:30

@Firepower

Game is not only about seduction; for many (most) seduction is where it starts, but learning it changes you fundamentally. Essentially, game reconnects your will to your actions; simple as this sounds, it goes directly against the way we are programmed by our feminized society.

That is the insight which forms the basis of this article.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4
Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 11:39

they don’t bother maintaining friendships.

Any man who has been married know exactly how their wife views his friendships.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 11:40

Secondly, I don’t want to have to waste days on end falsifying my personality and the essence of who I am to the general public simply to interest women.

Game is not about being FIKE!!!!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5
Firepower March 18, 2011 at 11:55

Gunn

@Firepower

Game is not only about seduction; for many (most) seduction is where it starts, but learning it changes you fundamentally. Essentially, game reconnects your will to your actions*; simple as this sounds, it goes directly against the way we are programmed by our feminized society.

That is the insight which forms the basis of this article.

*I can agree only with this particular premise of your statement.

I saw (and see) no male “liberation” or relationship maintenance aspect in any of Mystery’s works – and he invented modern Game.

In fact, in my reading each of the thousands of pages of Strauss’ The Game, he ended his 10 pound book absolutely befuddled on how to maintain the one quality relationship he attracted. He certainly attributed no liberation theology/magic to Game.

Game is not a panacea for those afraid to take true action that liberates.
One cannot claim an easy universal philosophical liberation based on notches.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
Paradoxotaur March 18, 2011 at 11:57

Fuggit about it Elmer. Some are just too stupid to understand or too lazy to educate themselves.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 9
beta_plus March 18, 2011 at 12:28

The only strategy available to men besides Game is to passively strike.

Do not get married.

Only earn enough money to keep yourself alive and able to run Game.

We must take it the point where feminist-marxists become so angry that they violently strike out at us. And we must let them hit us. Again, again, and again w/o complaint. I’m completely serious on that point. DO NOT STRIKE BACK EITHER VERBALLY OR PHYSICALLY OR WE LOSE. We have to win the contest of passive aggression.

We have to wait until the system implodes and beyond, and not lift a finger to help or in anger until the other side has no other choice but to realize what it has done.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
JB March 18, 2011 at 12:28

The greatest contribution of Game to the men’s movement is the simple straightforward fact:

It works.

This is a very important point: game recognizes women for their fundamental nature, and provides straightforward methods of taking advantage of that nature in order to receive a coin that just about every male in the world understands. One of the biggest challenges facing the men’s movement is that men across the world have been lied to about the nature of courtship, the nature of women, the nature of people in general.

For people in the men’s movement, they are constantly confronting the lies of society and the lies of feminism. Although they can make logical arguments, they are based on assumptions about human nature. Feminism twists philosophical arguments to fit their own ends. The men’s movement argues this, but for somebody raised to internalize the lies of modern culture, it is easy to buy into the lies of feminism. When somebody believes those lies, it is very simple to brush off the arguments of the men’s movement as being about men trying to grab power. Easy because that is true: the men’s movement IS about grabbing power; it just happens to be the man’s own rightful power that has been stolen from him.

For a proponent of the men’s movement trying to open the eyes of a male disbeliever, there are very few simpler ways of getting their attention than pointing out that “nice guys don’t get the girls.” Pointing out that users of game and the men’s movement share the same psychological understanding of women and female power, and the Game users are rolling in pussy, offers a clear empirical test of the assumptions the men’s movement is built on.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5
Gunn March 18, 2011 at 12:41

In fact, in my reading each of the thousands of pages of Strauss’ The Game, he ended his 10 pound book absolutely befuddled on how to maintain the one quality relationship he attracted. He certainly attributed no liberation theology/magic to Game. Game is not a panacea for those afraid to take true action that liberates. One cannot claim an easy universal philosophical liberation based on notches.

I agree with your point here, but I don’t necessarily consider that Neil Strauss knows about or considers game in the wider MRM context.

I guess the way I see it is that game concepts are a necessary, but not sufficient condition, to fully engage in MRM concepts both theorectically and in practice. Specifically, game concepts that reconnect a man’s will to power to his actions makes it possible for him to exercise his will in the fields of endeavor he is interested in. One can learn such behaviour outside of the idea of ‘game’, but the behaviours themselves are identical to what a guy accomplished in game would use.

In other words: what you learn in game can be used in almost all other aspects of your life; if you choose to learn this via game, you will gain the same utility as doing it through other ways (such as particular types of military learning, or some aspects of salesmanship, etc). Of course, for this to be fully actualized, one has to have the presence of mind to generalise game beyond pulling skanks at the local bar. And as you say, that isn’t automatic – it requires additional effort.

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Russ March 18, 2011 at 12:56

I understand where the OP is coming from and agree with much of it as it is. My only question is, “What happens to civilization if both men and women are acting like complete self absorbed pigs.”

I know the answer, it collapses.

Now, I’m not going to suggest that men should “take the high road” and continue the status quo. Far from it.

I would suggest that men figure out how to regain control of our society and re-implement a masculine polity that forces both sexes to honor their part in the social contract.

As an above commenter noted, we need to focus on running “game” on the state, not women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
Vortac March 18, 2011 at 13:19

You can’t be honest and use “Game” at the same time.

I choose to be honest.

- Vortac

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 8
Old Guy March 18, 2011 at 13:25

One problem is, you guys have a distorted understanding of what game is. It seems most MRAs are very negative on game.

I have seen the classic picture of Mystery in his fur top hat presented as the image of game on MRM sites and it is alluded to in comments in this string. I guess that is as good a place to start. He is working the hottest hot babes in high end discos and you have to stand out and be outrageous or you won’t get anywhere. The girls there are looking for the next shiny thing and view guys as interchangeable meat dildos. He is perfectly calibrated for that environment. You can laugh all you want, but he can get laid in places like that, you can’t.

The Mystery Method is an amazingly accurate dissection of the dynamics of the human mating ritual and how to game the system, and if you learn it, you will get laid more often, and you will not have to dress like he does to do it. But enough about Mystery.

Game is learning how the human mating ritual works, the actual motivations and behaviors of women, and what behaviors and personality traits are most likely to work. You can’t learn it from any one Guru, and you can’t learn it in a weekend seminar. Game is a journey of self discovery as much as it is a learning about women.

~ ~ ~

A tidbit of Game knowledge to explain why you need game and how it works.

How your chances of sex with women are determined.

Your chances of sex depend upon entirely her judgment of yours and her relative social ranks. Male rank is based upon where you fit in the male pecking order in the social group she is in. Female rank depends upon her beauty, clothes, and grooming relative to the social group she is in.

If she judges you to be lower rank than her you will never get laid. If you try you will be denounced as a creep.

If you are approximately equal rank, you will get to be an orbiter, AKA in the Friend Zone, unless she decides she needs a new provider. Then she will select the orbiter who provides the best combo of financial support and approval of her friends and make him her new guy. The guy will think he seduced her, but Lucy Westenra likely thought she seduced Count Dracula too.

If your rank is higher than hers, you become eligible to be a lover, which means one night stands, fuck buddies, or guy on the side. You will still have to show a bit of game so she can maintain the illusion that you are seducing her, but she will give in to all but the lamest game, which would indicate that she misjudged your rank, and send you into orbit with no reprieve.

Now, the way to game the system is to increase your male rank and learn how the system works.

Increasing your male rank is easy. Improve your physical rank through improving your physical fitness, taking up a manly contact sport, improving your grooming and dress, and watching sports on TV so you have something to talk about with other men. At the same time learn enough game so you can perform the human mating dance as needed and that you understand the true nature and behaviors of women so you do not crash and burn after the dance.

I know the response will be, I’ll never be able to get a one night stand with a super hot babe. True, but that is an unrealistic expectation for most guys. Just follow me a bit longer.

Let’s say you are a freshly divorced 40 something who is overweight, has a comb-over, and is wearing a bunch of baggy mismatched old clothes and old running shoes, and for entertainment play video games, or collect old pocket watches, or anything else women find stupid, but does have a job, car, and apartment in a safe area.

You are about a 6.

That means 7s, which are the lowest grade that are neither fat nor ugly, and smell good consider you an untouchable.

6s which are the first step below the I’d have sex with that boundry will take you on as a provider if you have enough money and other assets for her to exploit.

5s would do one night stands with you, but you might have to get so drunk to do it that you couldn’t get it up, so why bother.

However, just clean up your appearance, lose weight, and learn the basics of seduction and you become a 7. That means 7s will be your girlfriend and 6s will do a ONS. They are not great, but 6s usually smell OK and have all their teeth. You may not want to show them off to your friends, but hey, it’s a ONS.

Keep improving for a few years, get buff, dress sharp, and use the skills you practiced on 6s & 7s and you become an 8. That means ONS with presentable 7s and 8s for girlfriends.

Or you could sit around and keep saying it is all hopeless and whack off dreaming about the poor hot babe from Thailand you will buy someday.

Your choice.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 7
Renaissance Man March 18, 2011 at 14:07

I thought the whole idea of marriage was to create a civil society.
Before civil society human males would just rape human females, end of story. marriage wouldn’t have been in his best interest, the human male must have gained other pursuits, and that is where he became more than male… Man.

Math, Science, Technology, Arts,.. that is all the “Game” MEN Need.
While males are focused on getting women,
Men are focused on “The Science” of getting women. the actual getting of women is just a by product of Man’s scientific study.

While to males, women are the end all be all, if he doesn’t get women than he has no other reason to live.
To Man, woman is simply another thing to study, no different from plants and the stars. He experiments, documents and passes his knowledge on to his fellow Man.

what do we have today, males or Men?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
ReadingGuest March 18, 2011 at 14:07

I don’t think that desire for sex is the main force behind enslaving men. The main, I think, is social propaganda – the lies told to men. Many men are needy not because of sex, but because of social expectations and not wanting to be labeled as looser. As many happy mgtow examples show, game is not the only option, there may be many of them.

Personally, I have started with the game as objective, improved some aspects of my inner self (all of this not game “material”, but game lead to it), although I have read some game material. As a person I improved quite a bit.

Later I discovered Men’s issues – “red pill”. That was real life changer. So I started to see game as just a joke. I mean it really does not free men from anything, only the object that enslaves you are different. I mean many game guys are definitely not free, they enslaved by new “enhanced material”, they performance… they became “self improvement” “freaks”, just look at all the PUA scene and honestly tell, me this is not a joke. Even regular game “players” I noticed many of whom, looking from outside, looks just pathetic. And what is most important – they remain slaves of women – game as their life objective is serving women, entertaining them. Your entire life and happiness becomes centered around women.

For myself, I did came to this conclusion myself. The true freedom I felt was not being more attractive to women and not needing to pay for sex, but when I understood, that I don’t have to be attractive to women, I can allow myself to don’t care about them, simply do what you enjoy.
Another aspect of this was, that such useless lifestyle as game was just some sort of degeneration, in my view. Some may disagree, and I understand, but in my view, I would rather achieve something in life and not just waste it. I mean if you need sex so desperately – you can pay for this!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Anonymous age 68 March 18, 2011 at 16:46

>>We must take it the point where feminist-marxists become so angry that they violently strike out at us. And we must let them hit us. Again, again, and again w/o complaint. I’m completely serious on that point. DO NOT STRIKE BACK EITHER VERBALLY OR PHYSICALLY OR WE LOSE. We have to win the contest of passive aggression.–beta-plus

That worked for Ghandi only because he had the sympathy of the International press. For men, all it will get us is beat up a lot.

It didn’t work for the Jews in Germany from 1895 till death them did part. It didn’t work real well for Black Americans from 1865 till 1965. MLK didn’t win Civil Rights for blacks. X and automatic weaponry did. Unlike most blacks, who did not associate much with racist people, I came from a family of racists, and worked with even more. X is the one who shut their stupid, racist mouths.

For 45 years, the MRM has spoken with “disciplined rhetoric”. It accomplished nothing.

I am told it was Einstein who described as doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity.

#####

A question for Elmer. Do ad hominem attacks on a group of people based on their age and income sources qualify you to speak out on matters of import?

I am going to tell you what qualifies me to speak out on matters of import, despite my age and income sources.

It might have to do with the 10,000 hours of public activism in the mid 80′s to early 90′s, over ten years. Also, meeting with the governor of our state in his office at his invitation. Picketing the court house. Holding public meetings. Supplying no-fee counseling services including suicide counseling to an estimated 1,600 or more divorced men. Op-eds all over the place, including one militant op-ed average every two months for 15 years to our local newspaper.

Please remind us of what qualifies you to speak on matters of import, since it is not generally obvious in your postings.

Actually, I think both the needs of the MRM and freedom of speeches pretty much qualify almost any man to speak out on matters of import, but you do not seem to agree with that.

#####
>>Or you could sit around and keep saying it is all hopeless and whack off dreaming about the poor hot babe from Thailand you will buy someday.

How droll. Actually, a lot of men who know about game choose not to use it to attract women for easy sex.

No one seems to think about simple risk issues, or don’t care about them.

If you bang enough women, even with condoms, it is strictly a matter of time until you get at least herpes, since that only takes skin contact, not genital. Other diseases are also available for the ambitious, successful man.

If you bang enough women, it’s only a matter of time, no matter how careful and clever you imagine you are, until you encounter a lunatic, who either puts your life at risk, or gets you arrested, or both with current DV laws as they are. Or, an insane former suitor comes gunning for you. It may be a long time, admittedly, but it is only a matter of time.

If you don’t mind that risk, go for it. I have what might be called Libertarian views, but the first time I said that, people came running to tell me all that I must do and think and believe if I am Libertarian, which is a really sorry view of Libertarianism. So, I no longer make that claim. I do believe you should name your own poison and take the good and bad which comes. Other men should do the same.

I do not wish to take those risks, and I suspect a lot of other men, you attack with sarcasm, have the same risk aversion I do. It always amuses me to see men using the much denounced shaming language on men with different views.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 1
Aharon March 18, 2011 at 16:50

Interesting post. While I still don’t know the details about how to use Game, Delusional Damage has intrigued me to start learning about this Game thing.

The wives have everything to gain by marrying, the husbands nothing but the assumed promise of a continued supply of sex – and that promise is often broken once the papers have been signed.
—- Yes, that is now true in modern society.

Now there’s even “rape within marriage” – the final word on exactly what rights the law thinks a husband has in a marriage.
— I heard some rumors about this happening. It’s true. How can any many still commit knowing this insanity?

The common ground between the “game” sphere and the men’s rights sphere is obvious: men’s rights advocates have a need – the need to reduce the unilateral enslavement of men through marriage – and advocates of “game” have a solution that will do it.
— I never thought about Game in this context before.

A man who learns “game” has little incentive to continue being the taxpayer who supports women living on gender-biased government handout programs.
— Yet, men do have the incentive to still accumulate wealth for other personal uses.

“Game” is also beneficial to men as individuals. A demanding self-improvement effort, it tends to draw its practitioners onto constructive paths in life that lead them to improve their circumstances in other ways as well.
— I never thought about Game like this before.

I am ignorant of Game. You guys have been talking about it since I first started here at Spearhead. I had always assumed it was mostly a PUA tactic and since I am avoiding dating and sex with women, I have ignored Game. OK, time for me to look into it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
cecilhenry March 18, 2011 at 16:51

A theme that seems to come out implicitly in some of these posts on game is that men have been emasculated in the West sexually, but also politically, racially, culturally and increasing economically.

Feminism and the need for game is but one facet of males gaining control of their identity and future.

With this I agree strongly. Our peacefulness, and wish to be agreeable and respect others has slowly led to a growing body of laws and political institutions that have stripped people of their power.

One little law at a time.

One law is acquised to –’because its only a little change’ (why bring the weapons out for that?) and slowly you find yourself without real property rights, without protection from exploitive taxation, ethnic cleansing in the name of multiculturalism, social engineering (hate speech = thought control)and ‘diversity’ for social control.

Envy and equality always run together. The call for equality always masking envious motives.

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BeijaFlor March 18, 2011 at 17:04

@ Reading Guest, March 18, 2011 at 14:07

“I don’t think that desire for sex is the main force behind enslaving men. The main, I think, is social propaganda – the lies told to men. Many men are needy not because of sex, but because of social expectations and not wanting to be labeled as looser. As many happy mgtow examples show, game is not the only option, there may be many of them.”

Excellent point … there IS more to life than putting notches on the bed-post. Not that I’m running down tail, mind you; as Heinlein’s Stranger In A Strange Land said, “it beats the hell out of card games.” But turning yourself inside-out for the sake of Game sounds … so … “Sex And The City,” but the male version.

This may just be sour grapes on my part. But … is it really all that important to get laid? Yeah, maybe; certainly there were decades of my life during which “lack-o’-nookie” was my everlasting inward personal tragedy. I survived, though; I found other things to enjoy, I worked and learned and tended my own growth, and frankly, life is good. There is no one that has veto powers against my dreams and goals, and I like it that way.

“The true freedom I felt was not being more attractive to women and not needing to pay for sex, but when I understood, that I don’t have to be attractive to women, I can allow myself to don’t care about them, simply do what you enjoy.”

Right … I enjoy traveling, seeing different countries and different cultures; I enjoy sailing, and I’m building up the skills and experience to “cast off” and become a full-time cruiser. Would I be able to do this if I were tied to a woman who spent her time (and mine) pulling the other way? Not likely.

The greatest freedom we have is the freedom to go our own way; turn our back on this decaying culture, or turn it to our advantage; or just pull a John Galt and fade away. As Henley said (“Invictus”) – “I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul.”

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modernguy March 18, 2011 at 17:09

Game is not the solution. It is an adaptive stop-gap in a society in which feminism is a given. There is an inherent contradiction in this because game says men should lead, but to use game as a tool means you are adapting to a situation rather than leading it. The practical problems are that using game is not going to secure you a faithful loving partner. Where there is no social pressure on women to reign in their sexual impulses, your girl is yours only until the next guy with better game comes along. The problems that would pose for family formation and societal progress are obvious.

Advocates of game can’t see the forest for the pussy. Society has to be a masculine structure of rules and boundaries within which there can be room for freedom and fun. There is a place for game, but it has to be within a larger structure that puts limits on the freedom of expression of the female sexual impulse.

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Nutz March 18, 2011 at 17:41

@ demirogue

“After all, it is a game of manipulation but one day when the game is over, who is going to be the winner or loser? ”

That’s the problem right there, your assumption that game is manipulation. It’s not. Game is simply the application of (alpha) traits so to make one appear more attractive. Through dedication and repetition those traits become ingrained, ergo natural, and you become a more attractive man as a whole. Fake it to you make it, as the saying goes. Remember, on average it takes about 3 weeks for something to become a habit. Game is the same way, only that there are so many different areas to cover so as a whole it takes months or years to develop depending on where you were when you started.

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Yo March 18, 2011 at 18:09

@ modernguy March 18, 2011 at 17:09

“Game is not the solution.”

Actually, Game is a solution, just not the solution to the biggest problems.

“The practical problems are that using game is not going to secure you a faithful loving partner. ”

True, but neither will anything else that you do, unless you are psychic.

Game is fundamentally just knowledge. It teaches men about the true nature of women, and there is no way to evade that, unless you know how to reprogram The Big Computer.

The only way that you are going to end up with a “faithful loving partner” is if you find a woman who values, or gets pleasure from, or is wired to bond by being faithful and loving, more than she does following her fickle gina tingles.

“Society has to be a masculine structure of rules and boundaries within which there can be room for freedom and fun.”

Yes, that is one of the bigger problems.

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AfOR March 18, 2011 at 18:22

The more I read about Game the more I realise I don’t have a shred of it.

I get more pussy for less effort and expenditure than anyone using game though, and that’s for sure.

Women will fuck anything, just realise that and stop excluding yourself from that pool of anything.

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Avenger March 18, 2011 at 18:35

Opus writes, Why (and I have never known) is being a trolley-dolly glamorous. It must be the uniform.

It’s not today but it was years ago. The stewardesses were usually young girls 18-22 and just the idea of flying and going to foreign locations was a big deal.. Airline travel was expensive compared to today and most of the people flying were men and almost always top businessmen.The stewardesses had to pass stringent physical requirements, personality etc etc So you had a situation where the top females ,perhaps 1% in looks, were able to meet the top (wealthier) men of business etc The men got to shag the good looking young girls and the girls got an opportunity to possibly trap a top man, something they’d never be able to do in Podunk no matter how good looking they were. It’s really the same reason that good looking females from the backwaters go to the cities.

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DirkJohanson March 18, 2011 at 19:10

@ oddsock: I’ve little doubt that Proverbs 7:1-27 is wisdom as part of an overall framework. The question is, with so much of that framework destroyed by feminism and other forces, does it still make sense for a guy today to follow the wisdom of Proverbs 7:1-27? Me thinks that guy simply going to end up miserable from not getting laid.

AfOR writes:

Women will fuck anything, just realise that and stop excluding yourself from that pool of anything. Couldn’t be truer. That’s how so many of them can be hookers and fuck disgusting guys, whereas very few guys could fuck a series of ugly women all day. I’ve seen women spend half an hour eating fat middle-aged pussy, and I’ve known a woman who liked getting eaten out by dogs. They get particular when they have choices, but but don’t assume that who they choose is something you can measure objectively. Just go for it.

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Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 19:11

A question for Elmer. Do ad hominem attacks on a group of people based on their age and income sources qualify you to speak out on matters of import?

Your public service in support of men is commendable. I was commenting that military service does not prepare one for business realities, but it was poorly worded. I should strike a more serious tone in my posts, as raucous buffoonery does not reflect well on the growing MRM.

And yeah, I have herpes. 11 years now. But I didn’t post the comment about the Thai chick.

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Lyn87 March 18, 2011 at 19:22

Okay… I figured “game” was about picking up women. Then I thought I was missing something with all this talk about “being a better man” and “self-improvement” and “it’s not just about picking up skanks.” So I went to the links from the article, and it was all about…

…wait for it…

Picking up skanks.

One of the authors DD quoted claims to be able to walk into any venue and pick up nearly any hot woman using “game” and have her knickers off in 30 minutes with 80% success. I call B.S. on that. It’s simply not true unless you change “venue” to “whorehouse” and “game” to “Platinum Visa card.” And any woman you can get busy with within 30 minutes of meeting IS a skank. He also claims to be an average-looking middle-aged guy who is simultaneously boffing five women in the 8+ range. From most-likely to least-likely I’m guessing either 1) he’s making it all up, 2) he gave all his fingers female names, or 3) at least four of his girlfriends are inflatable.

There seems to be a severe disconnect by what the guys here mean by the word “game.” If it’s about learning to be more confident and comfortable in your own skin, that’s fine. But the links I followed from the article make it pretty clear that “game” is about getting into women’s pants. But don’t take my word for it – the definition from the first link is this:

Game is, in short, the skill of displaying attractive behavior – particularly, a man’s skill of displaying the kind of behavior that makes women sexually attracted to him.

If we want to discuss what it means to be better men, fine. If we want to discuss how to pick up the kind of women who will jump in bed with you in 30 minutes, fine (I’ll sit that one out), but let’s have the honesty to stop pretending that “game” is some sort of zen-like journey of self-improvement and deep actualization.

“Game,” as defined by the people who are writing about it, is about picking up skanks, and that’s all it is. “How to be a better man” is a great topic – but “game” will not get you one iota closer to it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7
Paradoxotaur March 18, 2011 at 19:38

@AfOR: “The more I read about Game the more I realise I don’t have a shred of it.”

Actually, it sounds more like you’re what’s called a natural. Perhaps even a savant or dragon.

@modernguy: “The practical problems are that using game is not going to secure you a faithful loving partner.”

Game will not, by itself, secure you a faithful loving partner; however, knowledge of Game might put you within the erotic view of a woman who becomes your faithful loving partner and who would not otherwise consider you. (Not to put too fine a point on it, but knowing at least basic fundamentals of Game (e.g., recognizing IOIs) might also help a truly clueless fellow at least recognize when a woman who could become a faithful loving partner is interested in him.)

@Avenger: “It’s really the same reason that good looking females from the backwaters go to the cities.”

And the reason that some good looking females go to law school, yet are rarely seen practicing law.

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Survivorman March 18, 2011 at 19:52

EVERY man — married, single, MGTOW or whatever, should have at least a basic working knowledge of “game”.

If you’ve read down this far, and don’t know what a “shit test” is — please do yourself a BIG favor and Google it; “shit test” — just like that .. in quotes.
If this were taught to young men in high school, there would be FAR less misery and heartbreak in the world — for both men AND women.

Look at it this way.. 51% of the people in the world are women. Sooner or later, in some way or other, a man has to interact with these creatures.

Studying “game” will enable you to decipher how their brains work – and it is in no way, shape, or form how a MAN’s brain works..

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The Private Man March 18, 2011 at 20:03

I see Game as an extension of basic social skills, nothing more.

Having good social skills is like knowing how to drive a motor vehicle. Ever tried to live in this society without the ability to drive? Same deal with social skills.

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Uncle Elmer March 18, 2011 at 20:13

Lyn87, you are correct, a lot of it is utter BS. Any talk of going into a bar and picking up women should be viewed with skepticism, if not ignored completely.

R.Don Steele never advocated this idiocy. He prescribed long term development of (young) female prospects through understanding of their psychology along with personal improvement for the middle-aged man. He also correctly advised that the type of woman you want to meet for this cannot be found in any bar.

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CSPB March 18, 2011 at 20:15

Knowledge of Game has applications in all parts of life. It improves all social interactions. It enables men to have options in dealing with women. Older men have an easier time eschewing women, but for younger guys they need to know this because it opens a man’s eyes up to the abundance of women. A believe in scarcity is often the reason a man marries the wrong woman or an abusive woman. If I had been more adept and known the Game back in the day, I would have made a much wiser choice in marriage and probably not financially lost what I had built in 25 years. But the most important thing I lost was my children. Had I known Game I probably would be in an entirely different situation in life.

The perception of Game solely to get laid vastly underestimates the real value.

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modernguy March 18, 2011 at 20:24

“”The practical problems are that using game is not going to secure you a faithful loving partner. ”

True, but neither will anything else that you do, unless you are psychic.

Game is fundamentally just knowledge. It teaches men about the true nature of women, and there is no way to evade that, unless you know how to reprogram The Big Computer.

The only way that you are going to end up with a “faithful loving partner” is if you find a woman who values, or gets pleasure from, or is wired to bond by being faithful and loving, more than she does following her fickle gina tingles.”

How do you think women like that come about? By random genetic deviations? It’s not a question of ‘wiring’. Women’s expectations about love, life, and men are a product of the social environment. If you let them think that slutting around New York buying four thousand dollar shoes is the most rewarding thing a girl can do and that’s what all their friends want, then that’s what they will want too. This is the American experiment in economic and political liberalism bearing it’s fruit. The ultimate goal is moral liberalism, which effectively means living for yourself and for the moment. Something to which game is perfectly suited, and which by-and-large is exactly what it’s proponents advocate for men as a response. It might mean individual liberation from celibacy but on a large scale it’s only going to accelerate the decline of the culture.

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Lyn87 March 18, 2011 at 21:14

@ Uncle Elmer,

Fifteen years ago I could have retired out of the Army had I made a career out of it.

Ouch. I managed to stick it out in one form or another long enough to earn the golden parachute. I have to ask about your experience though. I spent four years in a military academy (almost all male) before I got my commission. I think there may be a big difference between what a guy like me has learned after a full career as an officer and what the average 22-year-old junior enlisted guy takes away from the experience. Guys like me are generally highly sought-after by a lot of businesses because we’re educated, we’re extremely reliable, we’re flexible thinkers, we have professional demeanor, we know which fork to eat with, we can work in teams and lead others, and we tend to focus on the objectives and get things done. OTOH, I’ll be the first to admit that I couldn’t sell cold water in Hell even if they could pay me with charcoal.

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fschmidt March 18, 2011 at 21:14

A movement should be defined based on what it is for. MRAs only share being against feminism and MGTOW only share being against following society’s way. As such, they aren’t movements since they aren’t for anything. So instead of MRA and MGTOW, there should simply be a Game movement and a Patriarchy movement. These are the two realistic choices of things to be for.

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deep insider March 18, 2011 at 21:34

Forget “Game”.

Why not just use Escorts?

It’s easier, cheaper (in the end), and less risky than starting a relationship with a woman.

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Aharon March 18, 2011 at 21:42

A movement should be defined based on what it is for. MRAs only share being against feminism and MGTOW only share being against following society’s way. As such, they aren’t movements since they aren’t for anything.

Who are you to tell us what a movement should be for and what we share being for or against?

Either way, you are wrong. Only a feminist moron cannot figure out what we are for or would try to manipulate us with self-doubt. MRAs have figured out your little game and each day thousands of more men are figuring it out. Nice try wench yet you have failed.

The MRM is the Men’s Rights Movement and that is what we are for. We are against misandry the hatred of males. We are united against feminism since it has proven to all of us that it is our enemy. Most of us support all men in making their own choices in how to live their life breaking free of society’s conditioning.

Feminism has exposed the true nature of women and your integrity. The only good thing that feminism has done for men is to help liberate us from being fools to believe in chivalry and to trust women. Each day more of us are saying no more to being used as a sperm bank and walking ATM. We are MGTOW and no longer being willing to settle for the roles of protector and provider.

Go back to the bowels of Hell from that you came witch.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
ruddyturnstone March 18, 2011 at 22:17

I agree with the idea that GAME might be a good idea for young men. Young men yearn for the company of women, as lovers and/or girlfriends. It simply won’t do for us older guys to advise them to shun women. They won’t, maybe even can’t, do that. As the author says, learning GAME might allow them to have sufficient contact (sexual and otherwise) with women so that they don’t fall into the marriage trap. A young guy who can’t get laid or get a GF might do well to learn GAME. It is certainly better to do that than to get marrie because his is so desperate to be with a woman that he puts his head in a noose.

But I question whether learning GAME is necessary to a regime of self improvement. Some of the things mentioned, getting in shape, playing sports, etc., might be useful, but I don’t see what they have to do with GAME. A man with no interest whatsoever in getting a woman might well decide to do these things. Moreover, I think most guys who are interested in GAME see it as a shortcut. GAME is a way to seem like a so called Alpha male to women without actually being one. In other words, if the guy had the gumption and the inclination to turn himself into a studly jock, particularly if he was doing so to impress women, he probably would have less need of GAME. Studly jocks are able to get enough female company without it. The whole point of GAME, to most men, is to be able to meet and impress women without having to undertake a tedious and rigourous wholesale change in their lives.

Then, there is this:

Let’s say you are a freshly divorced 40 something who is overweight, has a comb-over, and is wearing a bunch of baggy mismatched old clothes and old running shoes, and for entertainment play video games, or collect old pocket watches, or anything else women find stupid, but does have a job, car, and apartment in a safe area.

You are about a 6.

That means 7s, which are the lowest grade that are neither fat nor ugly, and smell good consider you an untouchable. . .

6s which are the first step below the I’d have sex with that boundry will take you on as a provider if you have enough money and other assets for her to exploit.

5s would do one night stands with you, but you might have to get so drunk to do it that you couldn’t get it up, so why bother.

However, just clean up your appearance, lose weight, and learn the basics of seduction and you become a 7. That means 7s will be your girlfriend and 6s will do a ONS. They are not great, but 6s usually smell OK and have all their teeth. You may not want to show them off to your friends, but hey, it’s a ONS.

Keep improving for a few years, get buff, dress sharp, and use the skills you practiced on 6s & 7s and you become an 8. That means ONS with presentable 7s and 8s for girlfriends.

Or you could sit around and keep saying it is all hopeless and whack off dreaming about the poor hot babe from Thailand you will buy someday.

Your choice.

False dichotomy much? How about this instead…say you are a 40 something divorced man and, guess what, you no longer really give a shit about having sex with women or having a girlfriend? If you must have sex, there are commercial alternatives. And there are ersatz sexual experiences, such as strip clubs, lap dance joints, phone sex, porn, etc. Plenty of us older guys find one or some combination of the above to be quite sufficient to meet our reduced sexual needs. Others of us have managed to eliminate them entirely. Me personally, I really and truly couldn’t care less about having sex with a 6, 7 or 8. If I really wanted to go through all the trouble of picking up a woman in a bar for a one night stand, a five would probably do me just as well as an 8 would. I’ve long since gotten over the fantasy, and the dissapointment when the fantasy doesn’t come true, of having sex with the head cheerleader. A five, which, by definition, is a mediocre women (when judged solely on the basis of appearance) would be more than good enough for me for a ONS. Again, that’s assuming that I actually cared enough about having sex with a woman to go through the rigamorole of picking one up in the first place. Which I don’t. Much less have an LTR with one.

You seem to ridicule men’s hobbies, but they represent things that men actually want to do. I don’t have the ones you mention, but I have others that make me happy. I also have great male friends, a brother, good parents, and other relatives. Being with them also makes me happy. A long term relationship with a woman would not make me happy. A one night stand might give me some fleeting pleasure, but that’s it.

Sorry, dude, but I don’t want to clean up my appearance, or lose weight, or study seduction techniques. And it’s not because I am planning, or even dreaming, of buying a poor Thai women (that thought actually revolts me, I don’t want to spend my life with any women, much less one from an entirely alien culture who is only with me because, compared to her, I’m rich…moreover what is to stop that Thai women from turning into a westernized, feminist bitch, if I should bring her to this country, and I have no desire to live in Thailand). I don’t want to do shit. And I don’t have to. I’m free. Free from caring. Free from wanting to be seen as desirable by women. I believe that more than one philosopher likened the decline in sexaul desire as a man reaches later middle age to a great liberation. And they were right! Save your GAME sales pitch for younger men. Us old goats don’t need it or want it.

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MobilePT March 18, 2011 at 22:30

Dear Deep Inside Her,

While I agree that escorts may be a superior option in many instances, for me Game has been not only fun, but quite profitable. As I’ve explained before, I run Game on the waitresses at my favorite pub, one of them brings me her “mis-pours”. I stopped counting long ago. The odd thing is- most of the mis-pours she brings me are the same as the last pint I ordered. She’s quite attractive, late 20′s, I’m quite a bit older, and the bar is usually lined with several other, younger, regular men she could give her mis-pours to. Go figure.

Also as I’ve stated before, I run Game on my cute little Viet dentist. She’s always cutting me deals (like 2-for-the-price-of-one crowns). The money saved isn’t nearly as important to me as the time saved, but I figure she’s cut me deals worth about $1,600.00. I also don’t mind when she cradles my head against her perky breast and does that little shoulder shake as she checks my fillings. The social proofing factor is hilarious. Now, within about 30 seconds of me approaching the front desk to check in, every woman in the office that doesn’t have her fingers in someone’s mouth shows up, flipping her hair and flaring her eyes at me.

But hey, if you want to believe Game only relates to picking up bar skanks, go right ahead. Just don’t ask me to believe that the hottest women are the skankiest. My experience is that fat warpigs are, and I can’t imagine running Game on them.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
andybob March 18, 2011 at 22:45

An off shoot of this, is the number of women that are dependent on anti-depressents or phycho-changing drugs. Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbuterin, are now being consumed like candy. Although I cannot back this up, my guess is it is primarialy women who are taking them. It is pretty clear that this war between the sexes is taking a toll on more than just the me.

John Boy, this is nothing new. When I was growing up (70′s-80′s), most women in suburban Australia were zonked out on some kind of medication (Valium was all the rage). Doctors prescribed it like aspirin (or, as you say, candy). Going to a supermarket circa 1979 was like ‘Night of the Living Dead’ – all these women wandering around like zombies with their trolleys laden with dietary suplements , bon-bons and Dinner Winner. There could have been an urban version of cow-tipping if boys really were as cruel as claimed. Hiding your mother’s Valium was only done on a dare, and never attempted unless fleet-of-foot.
You don’t need to back-up your suggestion of women’s pill-popping propensities. We have eyes and ears. The question is: why? What happened post-sixties that drove women over the edge? What made them so miserable? How were men expected to have proper relationships with these drones? Feminism has much to answer for.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Rebel March 18, 2011 at 23:07

I think that game has nothing to do with men’s liberation.

A man’s liberation takes place when he no longer needs game.

Game is meant to help bed females. When males need females.
Freedom happens when needs are gone.

Then you can fuck off at a moment’s notice. Here’s when you are liberated: when you are wrapped up in a mantle of wind.

Free as air.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1
Old Guy March 18, 2011 at 23:30

This would be funny of it wasn’t so sad. A bunch of guys who have had terrible luck with women get exposed to the one thing that could turn their luck around and they reject it out of hand. One more proof that the Seduction Community has human psychology nailed. This behavior is predicted by Game Theory. One of the axioms is that it is a waste of time to try and help hopeless AFCs because they are not ready to learn, and it will just piss them off if you try and help them.

All of the objections posted above are wrong. Once you understand the principles of the mating ritual and understand how women think and behave, you can use it however you want. To get lots of one night stands, or to find a girlfriend and to know that if she begins to be more work than she is worth you can replace her, or to have a virtual harem, or to be a MAC and have women support you, or figure out how to deal with your wife and steer your marriage in the direction of peace and functionality.

You can learn how to spot and avoid psychopaths, drama queens, and gold diggers. Most relationship horror stories started with a needy guy who felt so lucky to finally be getting laid that he ignored all the danger signs until he was in too deep to get out cheaply.

I’m not selling anything, I do not work for any PUA training system. I am just a guy who began studying and after a while it improved my life a whole lot in every area. I never spent a penny and recommend the same to you. Everything you need to know is on the Internet for free if you just look. Read everything you can find and after a while it will become obvious what is useful to you and what is not. Each man is a different combination of strengths, weaknesses, and desired outcomes. What is perfect for one may be useless to the next.

Spearhead contributor Roissy is as good a place as any to start. Read his entire web site one or two posts a day so you can give it time to sink in. After that, there is a list of game resources in the game forum. Once you get started, Google what you are interested in. YouTube has a lot of stuff as well.

http://roissy.wordpress.com/

A parting thought. Everything you know is wrong. You were programmed that way on purpose because it makes you more useful to society at the cost of your own freedom and happiness.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 7
Journey March 19, 2011 at 00:17

“Now there’s even “rape within marriage” – the final word on exactly what rights the law thinks a husband has in a marriage. When before the wife’s sexuality was his property which he bought by fulfilling his part of the deal, he is today still forced to pay the price but no delivery of goods is guaranteed.”

Nobody owns anyone else’s sexuality. If you want sex with your wife and she doesn’t then you get divorced or the two of you sort out what the problem is. But nobody “owns” a damn thing when it comes to other people.
Paragraphs like the one above, apart from being crap, are just hay making for feminists.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 12
TFH March 19, 2011 at 00:29

Vortac,

You can’t be honest and use “Game” at the same time.

Dead wrong, which yet again proves that 80% of men (and 99.9% of women) have no capacity to grasp what Game is.

I choose to be honest.

No, you choose to bbe deliberately dishonest, as well as unintelligent.

So is Hawaii Libertarian being dishonest in improving his marriage?
(This is always the question that never gets a straight answer).

I used to think Roosh was being too harsh in the way he slams the Game-doubters who still think they can be MRA. But this sort of thing makes me think Roosh has it right…

There is no true MRA thought without at least a conceptual grasp of many elements of Game. Only with Game can a man become inured to shaming language, identify shit tests and deflect them, etc.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 7
TFH March 19, 2011 at 00:34

Old Guy,

A bunch of guys who have had terrible luck with women get exposed to the one thing that could turn their luck around and they reject it out of hand.

Bingo.

One more proof that the Seduction Community has human psychology nailed.

Another bingo. How can people claim to be fighting for ‘Men’s Rights’ when they refuse to become educated about the human psychology behind the whole thing?

They are too afraid to face up to the fact that self-improvement is within their control. It is, after all, easier to convince oneself of one’s own helplessness.

CSPB,

Knowledge of Game has applications in all parts of life. It improves all social interactions.

This.

And yet, some people, who otherwise think they stand for Men’s Rights, reject it out of hand.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6
E March 19, 2011 at 00:39

RedPill:
“In the end, is the prize worth the effort? The answer changes depending on where one is in life.”

Bingo!
Game doesn’t work on women who are in their 30′s because, by then after getting “pumped and dumped” X number of times, they learn to wise up. So what’s a man in his mid 30′s suppose to do with the next 40 years of his life….oops game offers absolutely ZERO help in answering this question.

IMHO game receives far more bandwidth then it deserves.
Game is for men who are in their 20′s.
Once a man hits around age 30 to 35 it’s time to move onto the next stage in life.
my 2 cents

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5
TFH March 19, 2011 at 00:40

Lyn87,

“Game,” as defined by the people who are writing about it, is about picking up skanks, and that’s all it is.

Totally, completely, embarassingly wrong.

So Hawaii Libertarian improving his marriage is picking up a skank? Obsidian’s LTR is pickup up a skank?

It is funny how half the ignoramuses on this thread have trouble even admitting that Hawaii Libertarian exists, even though he is a regular Spearhead author…

I will say it again :

80% of men and 99.9% of women have no ability to ever, ever comprehend Game. They just can’t. They are like the 2-D squares in this clip.

This is the same thing as those feminists who insist that they are oppressed by some patriarchy, btw. When faced with mounting evidence, they put their fingers in their ears and say ‘La La La I can’t hear you’.

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TFH March 19, 2011 at 00:48

It continues to be stunning (and depressing) about how a portion of these supposed ‘MRAs’ insist on being wholly ignorant of Game, no matter how much detail it is explained to them in.

Game = Bar skanks/funny hats/only for college guys, etc. etc. etc.

The existence of Hawaii Libertarian is problematic for this narrative, is it not? And there are many other LTR-Game men other than Hawaii Libertarian too….

There is no advancement of Men’s Rights without at least a grasp of human psychology that Game provides. None.

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TFH March 19, 2011 at 00:54

Being opposed to Game, is being opposed to learning how women think.

Someone who is opposed to learning how women think is not going to be of much value as an MRA, now is he?

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E March 19, 2011 at 01:22

TFH:
“No, you choose to bbe deliberately dishonest, as well as unintelligent.”

Is game going to provide me with rent, food, and energy?
Is game going to pay for my retirement?
Perhaps it is you who is the “unintelligent” one for putting so much of your energy into something so trivia, a luxury often given to only the youthful. How old are you kid? Never mind don’t answer.

TFH:
“I used to think Roosh was being too harsh in the way he slams the Game-doubters who still think they can be MRA. But this sort of thing makes me think Roosh has it right…”

Whatever criticism directed at Game-doubters must feel like a slap on the wrist for a person who understand how trivial game really is.

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mgtow March 19, 2011 at 01:50

fschmidt March 18, 2011 at 21:14
A movement should be defined based on what it is for. MRAs only share being against feminism and MGTOW only share being against following society’s way. As such, they aren’t movements since they aren’t for anything. So instead of MRA and MGTOW, there should simply be a Game movement and a Patriarchy movement. These are the two realistic choices of things to be for.

And Franklin Richard Schmidt, the Co-Alpha Brotherhood nincompoop, strikes again.

Gentlemen, if you wish to marry, i.e. ‘pick the right woman, preferably from overseas’ and live with like-minded married couples in a commune… listen to him. He is like Henry Makow, just more secular.

However, if you value your own freedom, wallet and sanity, avoid marriage altogether. Sport fuck women with game or avoid them altogether.

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mgtow March 19, 2011 at 01:59

LTR game is like putting pepper on a slice of plain bread – it sure spices up your bread, but what’s the point? It’s just plain, boring bread.

Game is supposed to be ruthless, economical, with variety. If you have game, you wouldn’t be married in the first place. You wouldn’t sign a contract with some broad so you can game her in the hopes that she sticks around.

Even if, through game, she sticks around for a long time and you celebrate your 50th wedding anniversary, so what? Do you want a cookie for your efforts?

If you are a married men and you want to use game, use it to pick up chicks other than your wife. But oh no, that’s adultery/cheating and that’s baaaad!

Precisely. I rest my case!

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oddsock March 19, 2011 at 02:47

Settle down girls. Here we are again with a pointless “who has got the biggest dick” type argument over something as trivial as PUA/game and various labels. For fecks sake just stop for a second and ask yourself this. Does it not remind you of back in your school days or youth and what group or gang you belonged too? The overall purpose for ALL of us, I mean the guys that are really awakening is to move away from being adult children.

A true adult male is way way above alpha/beta PUA game MGTOW MRA
et al and all that shite. We will help far more men make significant steps towards this if we literally ” start to grow up” . Losing the ego would be a big help, even if we just accept and become aware of it as a problem we all have. Anyone that argues about such trivial topics is no different than the feminists and women we lambast for being childlike.

All this nonesense is simply men that are kicking and screaming like a grumpy teenager being forced to wake up and get out of bed. If you still really feel the need to ” big yourself up ” and evaluate PUA/Game and the various labels then suggest choice and options etc. Men do not need not more insults and put downs within who has got the biggest dick type arguments?

Lose the ego girls.

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oddsock March 19, 2011 at 03:09

Rebel March 18, 2011 at 23:07
I think that game has nothing to do with men’s liberation.

A man’s liberation takes place when he no longer needs game.

Game is meant to help bed females. When males need females.
Freedom happens when needs are gone.

Then you can fuck off at a moment’s notice. Here’s when you are liberated: when you are wrapped up in a mantle of wind.

Free as air.

Hear hear Rebel, well said, need be very careful though, adult talk like that will scare the crap out of them.

Now just watch all the guys have a wobbly and attack such truths while being in total denial of their own closet manginadom. Waaah! Wahhh! Dont wake me up. I dont want to get out of bed and become a true adult, it’s cold and scary. I want to stay in bed all warm and safe dreaming of game and being a top PUA. LOL. Still makes me laugh when I think of Marc Rudovs description of such men as Ken Dolls, smooth between the legs. LMFAO.

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Lavazza March 19, 2011 at 04:05

Rebel and Oddsock: I would say that freedom comes from first understanding the difference between needs and desires and then living according to your needs, day by day diminishing the role desires play in your life.

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oddsock March 19, 2011 at 04:19

@Lavazza

Rebel and Oddsock: I would say that freedom comes from first understanding the difference between needs and desires and then living according to your needs, day by day diminishing the role desires play in your life.

That may well be true. Therefore, as often pointed out on this and many other male friendly websites. There is a wealth of info on the internet to learn about ourself as individuals. All this chatter petty mudslinging about game and PUA and labels is only worthwhile if the guys that take part in it start to recognise it’s futility, and stops them from going around in circles.

One of my favourite teachings from the mystics; we do not grow by adding something, we grow by losing or dropping something. Illusions being one of them.

It is so simple most people can’t or won’t see it.

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migu March 19, 2011 at 04:24

I saw this hottie yesterday so I thought I would spit some game.

I walked right in front of her, sucked.all the snot out of my nose, gathered it in my throat and spit a giant lugi on the ground in front of her. I looked her right in the eye and said “monopoly bitch.”

And that is how you spit game.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 04:41

@ everyone – yes, that means you

Out of 97 comments I see about 5 different things being said by 20 people each, so find your answer in this FAQ:

You said: “Thanks, this article was great and opened me up to a new view of Game and how it can help with men’s rights.”
You’re welcome, that was my intention.

You said: “Game is only for getting laid, it will not change the laws or change the bitches or help with men’s rights.”
Read the article again, especially the part where I painstakingly explain how Game affects sexual market forces and has a male-positive effect on the balance of power between the sexes. Game is not “the ultimate solution to everything”, and I never suggested it could be, but it is a partial solution to some issues troubling men and deserves a place in the MRM arsenal.

You said: “Game only works on X type of women” or “Game only works for X type of men” or “Game is phony and dishonest” or “Game only works with one-night-stands and not long-term girlfriends” or “I don’t want to wear a silly hat” etc.
This is what YOU know about game… the “pop culture” understanding. Please read more. I did prepare for this in advance by linking to an earlier article where I specifically address these concerns, but you apparently did not read it, so here it is again:
http://delusiondamage.com/2011/03/17/the-highest-level-of-game/

You said: “Game, bah, who wants to get laid with today’s bitches anyway?” or “True freedom is freedom from needing women.”
Game is fundamentally about understanding how women function. This knowledge is powerful enough to get you laid, and it is certainly powerful enough to let you control the bitchy tendencies you may find in the women you interact with in non-sexual situations, right up to making them less likely to hit you with a FRA or similar trouble. Whether you want sex or not, understanding the knobs and dials in a woman’s head is of great tactical value.

You said: “Only a minority of men can ever understand Game” or “If everyone becomes alpha then no one is alpha”
A minority percentage even in the single digits can significantly affect sexual market forces. Everyone will never be alpha because some are always more alpha than others.

You said: “Game enslaves men to women by pedestalizing the libido.”
Most men are ruled by the libido to start with and on a default path to marriage or a reasonable vaginal enslavement facsimile. Game provides them with an alternative in line with MRM goals. A man with the willpower to prioritize personal principles over sex will hardly sacrifice his principles for Game either, but many in the hordes of sex-dependent men who would otherwise become manginas & white knights can be converted to the anti-feminist side through teaching them Game and removing them from women’s sexual vice grip.

Unique replies I’d like to especially address:

Nemo said:
– “is “game” the human equivalent of guys searching on the Internet for “cheat codes” for their video games?”
Yes, and so is all research that humanity has ever undertaken. Science IS the cheat codes for nature.

Russ said:
– “What happens to civilization if both men and women are acting like complete self absorbed pigs.”
May he who isn’t a completely self-absorbed pig cast the first stone.

Aharon said:
– “Yet, men do have the incentive to still accumulate wealth for other personal uses.”
This is going way off topic but if you’re interested I’ve discussed motives for wealth-accumulation in detail here:
http://delusiondamage.com/hidden-truths/men-and-women/

Lyn87 said:
– “One of the authors DD quoted claims…”
– ““How to be a better man” is a great topic – but “game” will not get you one iota closer to it.”
A quote is not an endorsement. I will quote something I think can be learned from even if I don’t agree with or even believe all of it.
For many, game has been the road to general self-improvement. You said you followed the links, but are you sure you understood this part where I explained the connection:
http://delusiondamage.com/2011/03/17/the-highest-level-of-game/

TFH said:
– “The problem is, 80% of men and 99.9% of women just cannot, ever, comprehend Game.”
Even less than 20% player density would revolutionize the market, and frankly, women understanding Game would likely only diminish its effectiveness.
– “they don’t want to face up to the fact that their plight IS something they can partly correct”
that, or too afraid of disappointment to risk an effort
– “Being opposed to Game, is being opposed to learning how women think. Someone who is opposed to learning how women think is not going to be of much value as an MRA, now is he?”
There is wisdom there, even though some of the most effective agents for change may be the ones with the least understanding of women – sounding the fire alarm is one thing, but a lot of people just won’t run until they see flames.

oddsock March 19, 2011 at 05:07

David Icke – Starting To See The World , is Nothing Like We Thought it Was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNAHNB6Gh3I&feature=player_embedded

Love him or loathe him ? He speaks much truth.

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Observer March 19, 2011 at 05:26

Undeniably, there is something to be learned by “Game”. Females do generally respond to certain behaviors, signals, status symbols better than others but you’re not seeing the big picture here. It can be useful as far as learning how to get things going, but it’s not sustainable. Yeah, “Game” is something that has gotten plenty of guys laid, no question. But there isn’t a long term “Game” because there can’t be.

Let me explain.

You can’t “Game” yourself into marriage. I think that’s the point though too, right? If she can’t see through what you are doing, she’s a plaything. If she can, it’s usually because it’s been done to her before, has some serious baggage, and may single you out for revenge. So to make “Game” work you need a steady supply of playthings. In other words, young and naive women (I assume that’s the goal anyway). It can’t and won’t work when you’re in a long term relationship because you literally know each other too well. Besides, the older we get, the more we appreciate qualities that go beyond appearances. It has to do with being part of something that works.

If you want to be happy for the rest of your life… ah, nevermind. I still hate that song.

Then you might say, “Game can help those floundering sexless relationships”. To which I’d point to all those celebrities and sexperts who decide to “spice things up” in the bedroom right before they personally end up getting divorced. When you start to think the most important aspect of the relationship is sex, you can’t help but move on. Sex like everything else becomes routine after awhile. Most of what you guys are promoting is simply assisted masturbation, pure and simple.

I’ll agree with you on one point: marriage is not for people who want to make sure they can always have sex with someone. While this is true, it doesn’t mean that going from girl to girl is the only solution. It’s about building a life stable enough to raise a healthy family. How many homes you know have mom and dad obsessing over each other? Do they have enough time to make the kids breakfast after they do it on the table? It sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous.

No, marriage isn’t for everyone but it is necessary for civilization as a whole. Right now, women are being bred for divorce not marriage. The first step in improving the situation is to remove the unjust financial and legal biases against men and at least force women to think twice about taking their men to the cleaners. We’ll worry about all this nuanced societal stuff later.

So, put the “Game” down for a minute and focus on what really needs to be done. Save the “Liberation” talk for tearing down the oppressive legal and financial penalties for being men. By saying “don’t marry” you are completely side-stepping the issue. Face it and fix it.

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NMH March 19, 2011 at 05:51

Just to follow up on what our Uncle Elmer is saying about ball-room With regard to Dancing: If you want to understand how a woman feels about a man who is a good dancer, just remind your self of this slick disco hit of the 70′s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRuraJCUPZ0&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Yup, that song says it all: it speaks to women’s hypergamy toward the best male, her interest in the way he dresses, etc.

If you take the blue pill, the song is a little funny, but stupid and irrational.
If you take the red pill: you realize these disco winches are saying exactly how they feel. Allow me to paraphrase: “I wonder why…he gives me THE GREATEST Gina Tingle…”

That’s just the way it is.

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Aharon March 19, 2011 at 06:04

One of my favourite teachings from the mystics; we do not grow by adding something, we grow by losing or dropping something. Illusions being one of them.

oddsock,

One of America’s top Life Coaches wrote a book about the importance for people to remove their socialized outer layers and to embrace their inner-core authentic self so to live a fulfilling life.

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Aharon March 19, 2011 at 06:13

Rebel wrote:

Freedom happens when needs are gone…Here’s when you are liberated: when you are wrapped up in a mantle of wind. Free as air.

That was perfection. I might write those words in my copy of The Prophet by the Lebanese Poet Kahlil Gibran.

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Lyn87 March 19, 2011 at 06:46

@ TFH, you wrote,

Lyn87,
“Game,” as defined by the people who are writing about it, is about picking up skanks, and that’s all it is.

Totally, completely, embarassingly wrong.

I’m sorry, but it is you who is wrong. I didn’t claim to understand what “Game” was because there are so many definitions, so I went to the links provided in the article. Then I followed a few of them. Then I looked at a few others. And the people who are writing about it all said basically the same thing. So if you think “Game” is something other than seduction techniques to score with women, your argument is not with me – take it up with the 95% of writers who say that’s precisely what it is in their own words on their own blogs.

Sure, there are a few guys like Hawaiian Libertarian who use the same term in a broader context, but they are in the minority. But a definition is only useful if we agree on what it means. And the vast majority of writers I’ve come across use the term to mean one thing and one thing only. There may be some evo-psychobabble tossed in, but if you want “Game” to mean something other than the ability to project the kind of vibes that attract women sexually, then by all means find different terms for what PUA’s mean by the word and what guys like HL mean by the word.

Then as if to prove my point, DD wrote,

A quote is not an endorsement. I will quote something I think can be learned from even if I don’t agree with or even believe all of it.

First of all DD, if you’re now going to claim you were not endorsing the quote I cited from your article, perhaps you should not have prefaced it with this:

Even so, I think this is probably the most comprehensive view of Game you can get in just five minutes or so.

That sounds an awful lot like an endorsement to me.

DD continued with this,

For many, game has been the road to general self-improvement. You said you followed the links, but are you sure you understood this part where I explained the connection:

http://delusiondamage.com/2011/03/17/the-highest-level-of-game/

Since that was his rebuttal to me, and DD clearly does endorse the view in this post (he’s the author), I followed that link with an open mind. Here’s what it said,

Game in itself, however, is always only a means to an end – conscious mastery with women – that’s not your ultimate goal in life.

In other words, even at it’s highest level, “Game” is nothing more or less than conscious mastery with women. And while he states that is an unworthy ultimate goal, he himself acknowledges that’s all “Game” is good for.

As I said, I couldn’t care less if guys want to talk about pick-up techniques, but a I also said, “Let’s have the honesty to stop pretending that “game” is some sort of zen-like journey of self-improvement and deep actualization.”

A single definition, that’s all I ask for.

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Uncle Elmer March 19, 2011 at 07:31

Lot of great comments pro and con. Having a practical understanding of psychology is useful to a man whether he pursues women or not. Techniques of persuasion and salesmanship will help you in your dealings with people on the job or when you are buying something. That the vast majority of people want to screw you is cynical but true. For men who live honestly it’s tough to accept and develop counter-strategies for. The patterns of human behavior have been identified and corroborated by many and are an accessible tool that you should study and put into practice. Even if you eschew women you are still going to deal with the rogue’s gallery of liars and fikes; it behooves you to understand their tactics. To quote Doctah Mahtin Luthah King, Joonya : “One must have the heart of a dove and the mind of snake.”

And I am no expert; I’ve been screwed a thousand times by people who recognize my honesty but have none of their own or no shame about pretending they do. I believe people and take them at their word. It’s a real weakness.

Certainly there are posers selling “game”. Easy to set up a website and steal “game” tips to sell. If they’re talking about “picking up women” it’s likely BS.

Like this lady :

What Oprah, the audience, or anyone in my life didn’t know then was that I had a secret. While launching a career as a “relationship expert,” I was going home every night to a failed marriage of my own.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharyn-wolf/post_1832_b_836215.html

Ly87 “Guys like me are generally highly sought-after by a lot of businesses because we’re educated, we’re extremely reliable, we’re flexible thinkers, we have professional demeanor, we know which fork to eat with, we can work in teams and lead others, and we tend to focus on the objectives and get things done.”

True for corporations built on the military model of structured hierarchies. Does not work so well for smaller business that are at the edge of survival. You might enjoy the writings of Jack T. Reed : http://www.johntreed.com/

Professional demeanor works everywhere though. Military can be a good place for young man to pick this up.

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Lyn87 March 19, 2011 at 07:50

@ Uncle Elmer,

True for corporations built on the military model of structured hierarchies. Does not work so well for smaller business that are at the edge of survival.

Professional demeanor works everywhere though. Military can be a good place for young man to pick this up.

No argument here. I’m not the entrepreneurial type, but I salute you guys that are. That’s a mindset I’ve never mastered.

Thanks for the link: my summer reading list is growing fast.

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Epoche* March 19, 2011 at 08:33

This seems to me to be a recipe for disaster and I can only imagine a later-day-Historian coming down particularily hard on the the Liberalism of the late 20th century as destructive of civilisation – we shall have to wait and see.
————————
future historians of political thought will not look kindly on mass democracy. the victorian legal scholar Sir Henry Maine noted that progressive societies tended to move from status to contract, democracy has reversed this trend. He noted there is nothing necessarily just, fair or worthwhile about democracy in itself. When the welfare state collapses and we move into totalitarian government it will happen probably because there will be organized intimidation of mobs, just look at the death threats in wisconsin for asking the public sector unions to give back small concessions they should never have been granted in the first place. does anyone else listen to john derbyshire?

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 08:50

@ Lyn87

Whatever way you interpreted my words in, I’ll go ahead and accept responsibility for not being completely unambiguous. This is a risk I take knowingly because I believe that writing all my articles in lawyer-speak would ultimately not be beneficial to readers.

I will attempt to clarify for you what intentions I had with those passages of mine which you’ve quoted and which it seems you interpret as contradicting what I have said here in this article and its comments.

Even so, I think this is probably the most comprehensive view of Game you can get in just five minutes or so.

That sounds an awful lot like an endorsement to me.

Here, you have me on record endorsing the “view of Game” as described in the quoted article, which does not mean to imply endorsement of anecdotes or personal success rate estimates of its unknown author, which of course I would have no way to verify. I hoped readers would understand that with the author being unknown I could hardly take responsibility for his anectodes or the numbers he talks about from his own life. As for the “view of Game” in the quoted passage, you can see that my endorsement of it was quite limited in its scope, acknowledging that the “view of Game” here is not a 100% exhaustive one – just what the 5-minute limit will allow.
It’s worth mentioning in this context that the connections of Game with MRM goals are not so central to the study of Game for its own sake as to make it into the 5-minute primer, which is why you will find no mention of them there.

Game in itself, however, is always only a means to an end – conscious mastery with women – that’s not your ultimate goal in life.

In other words, even at it’s highest level, “Game” is nothing more or less than conscious mastery with women.

Here, I suspect you may be interpreting “mastery with women” to mean “getting laid”. My intetion with the use of the word “mastery” is to imply coverage of multiple facets of interaction with women, reaching beyond “picking up skanks”. Mastery with women can be used for that but also for other things, for example influencing them in conflict situations – something very relevant to the MRM.
In addition, “only a means to an end” is intended to mean that Game is not an end in itself. This is in no way meant to imply that skill with Game could not have beneficial side effects outside the area of getting laid or even outside the area of interacting with women.

Regarding self-improvement: Game itself is a skill. A skill is not self-improvement. The elements of the skill are not self-improvement. This is why an explanation of what Game is does not mention self-improvement.

However, the practice and honing of a skill is self-improvement, and it just so happens that adopting one habit of self-improvement, for example the practice of Game, easily leads a man to further paths of self-improvement in other areas of his life. This is not a requirement, but it is a tendency, just like someone who already plays one instrument is likelier to take up another instrument than is someone who does not play any instruments to start with.
In addition, Game in particular happens to be a skill the acquisition of which requires much more rejection of cultural propaganda than do most activities, which, from a MRM point of view, is a beneficial side effect.

I’m sorry if you did not understand the intended meanings of these passages in the context of the articles you picked them from – the case with writing is unfortunately such that if I took the greatest care to explain the implications and limitations of each sentence to the extent where they would be impossible to misinterpret, the length of each article and the learning-to-reading-time ratio for its reader would approach the point where no one would read them. This being the case, I try to strike a balance where the article will be concise and informative for most readers, and misunderstood only by a few.

Attila March 19, 2011 at 08:53

This emphasis on “game” sounds adolescent – just a more elaborate version of “scoring”.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 10:53

@ Lyn87
I hereby dedicate today’s article to you:
http://delusiondamage.com/2011/03/19/the-shotgun-approach-to-life/
Thank you for helping me better myself.

woggy March 19, 2011 at 10:56

“Now there’s even “rape within marriage” – the final word on exactly what rights the law thinks a husband has in a marriage. When before the wife’s sexuality was his property which he bought by fulfilling his part of the deal, he is today still forced to pay the price but no delivery of goods is guaranteed.”

Nobody owns anyone else’s sexuality. If you want sex with your wife and she doesn’t then you get divorced or the two of you sort out what the problem is. But nobody “owns” a damn thing when it comes to other people.
Paragraphs like the one above, apart from being crap, are just hay making for feminists.

@Journey

Are women, or are they not, capable of entering into and abiding by a contract?
If the contract says that he’ll use up his body shoveling the gravel 40-60 hours a week, and in return, she’ll yield her body to him for a minor fraction of that amount of time, and she doesn’t like those terms?
She doesn’t have to enter into the contract!
Further, now that the feminists have been trumpeting about how men are in decline, women make more money, etc. etc., – and therefore, women don’t need to feel pressured into marriage as a means of economic survival, isn’t high time we declare the feminist inspired marital rape laws to be archaic?
Marital rape laws were based upon woman worship-having NOTHING to do with the brutal crime we used to associate with the word rape. It’s just another means of controlling men- men who care about women’s opinions at that. Period.
Divorce because she won’t have sex? You haven’t been paying attention have you- it’s doubtful a guy’s sexual successes will gather any momentum when he’s living in his car.

Game…
Game is one of those things that seems to make the fembloggers go ape.
Why?
Probably because it does, for men, exactly what fathers, uncles and older brothers used to do for younger men; it teaches them about themselves and about women-particularly about how to gain sexual access to them.

The ship of Feminism has many goals; controlling men’s access to women’s sexuality is the PRIMARY means of propulsion.
I believe it was Elam who wrote (I paraphrase) “it’s a good thing most men think with their dicks, otherwise women would be out of luck” -feminist women in particular, Ibid.
Hence their enthusiasm for marital rape laws, and their opposition to Game.

Also, feminism encourages women to worship their own “inner goddess”- and men had better do it too- any attempt, by a mortal (man) at entering the mind of a “deity” is to be viewed as “heresy”. If too many men begin to digest the truth?-feminine “mystique”, long unraveled by ancient men who women demanded be silenced, will be unraveled by modern men, who’ll realize that worshiping the stone idol constructed by feminism isn’t necessary.
When that happens in sufficient numbers,the feminist stranglehold on legislation and dialogue will further erode- their power to promote and maintain misandry will erode as well.
That’s why hard core feminists hate Game; that’s why any man concerned for the well being of men and boys will at least take a keen interest in it, no matter how he chooses to employ the knowledge.

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Lyn87 March 19, 2011 at 11:02

@ DD,

…not being completely unambiguous. This is a risk I take knowingly because I believe that writing all my articles in lawyer-speak would ultimately not be beneficial to readers.

Here, you have me on record endorsing the “view of Game” as described in the quoted article, which does not mean to imply endorsement of anecdotes or personal success rate estimates of its unknown author, which of course I would have no way to verify.

…the case with writing is unfortunately such that if I took the greatest care to explain the implications and limitations of each sentence to the extent where they would be impossible to misinterpret, the length of each article and the learning-to-reading-time ratio for its reader would approach the point where no one would read them.

This being the case, I try to strike a balance where the article will be concise and informative for most readers, and misunderstood only by a few.

Fair enough. Having written for mass publication myself I understand your dilemma. I just saw a lot of invective flying over a term we can’t even define among ourselves, and some guys were starting to throw real insults about who has “game” and who doesn’t.

What I think we can agree on (maybe) is that the word “game” means too many things to too many guys to be a useful term. As a wordsmith yourself you know the importance of precise definitions. The guys here are a pretty small like-minded subset of the blogosphere and we have almost half a dozen ways to interpret that one word. I would humbly suggest we use different terms for the different things we’re all describing.

The PUAs can have the word “game” as far as I’m concerned. They seem to have staked it out pretty well and I personally think it fits what they do. But when I look at guys like HL as they talk of how they manage LTRs, I don’t see it as the same kind of thing the PUA community means. It seems to me that what guys like him are talking about has been known for many years as simply “wearing the pants in the family.”

Maybe we could differentiate between “short game” and “long game.” Although there is overlap, calling both “game” is like referring to both a motorcycle and a freight train using the term “vehicle.” Correct in one sense, but a definition that broad is useless for our purposes.

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Lyn87 March 19, 2011 at 11:15

@ DD again,

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 10:53

@ Lyn87
I hereby dedicate today’s article to you:
http://delusiondamage.com/2011/03/19/the-shotgun-approach-to-life/
Thank you for helping me better myself.

Thanks, although I’m not sure I should feel flattered. I read the piece and I can assure you I wasn’t trying to be argumentative for its own sake, nor was it an inability to understand on my part. I was simply doing you the courtesy of believing you meant precisely what you wrote.To borrow the idea from your piece, you’re a skeet shooter and I’m a sniper. I think there’s room for both types.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 12:06

@Lyn87
I hope you know I meant no affront to you personally in that article, I was just theorizing on what the worst case scenario in terms of effort/results ratio could be in such situations. I seem to recall reading some guest post of yours on TS or IMF and being left with a rather positive impression and I wouldn’t have elaborated to the extent I’ve done in this comment thread if I thought you weren’t sincere.

You raise some interesting points:

the word “game” means too many things to too many guys to be a useful term

see: God, family, nation, etc… the trouble with words, colloquially used, is that nothing really means anything clearly defined except when squeezed in context between other words, and even then it’s a toss-up whether the original intention gets through.

you know the importance of precise definitions

So I do, and striking a balance between that and the importance of using words the entire audience understands is an exercise in hair-pulling. Having written for mass publication yourself, you’re likely not in the middle of the bell curve on the preference issue.

The PUAs can have the word “game”

Maybe we could differentiate between “short game” and “long game.”

“wearing the pants in the family.”

the same kind of thing the PUA community means

I think there’s much more in common between all these than I think you think there is. I don’t know how well versed you are in ga… the pick-up arts and/or an evolutionary-psychology understanding of female mating behavior, but like many skills, this too tends to convergence at the summit: the more you learn, the more you realize that what seemed like different things are really variations on the same thing. The silly hats and manipulative tricks of amateur “PUA”s seem very different from “wearing the pants in the family”, but at a skill level where the performance is “pure” from beginners’ crutches and such, short and long “game”, wife and family, bar sluts, etc can all be approached from basically the same starting point, just applying the knowledge to the goals at hand.

I agree that “game” is a fuzzy concept, but who would have read this article if it were called “Men’s Liberation Through Identity-Level Transformation In Self-Image Regarding Models of Masculine Authority And Their Application To The Modern Environment”? I try to use what has traction with the audience. We can define anything we like, but no one besides you, me, and the three people who read everything carefully will know about our definitions. Rest assured that the “game” pioneers have a definition for everything, but I try to limit myself to what the audience knows.

All in all, I would not strictly disagree with you on anything you’ve said here but neither would I change anything in my original article. I appreciate your input though, it’s made me think about the differences in how people define “game” – perhaps an article exploring the (mis)information about and attitudes towards it would be of use around these circles.

you’re a skeet shooter and I’m a sniper. I think there’s room for both types.

There’s certainly room for both in my head – I don’t know that anyone can “be” one or the other by nature, I see it as a situational attitude… I suppose we’re all inclined to do one easier than the other, though.

Lyn87 March 19, 2011 at 12:19

@ Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 12:06

;-)

Well put, Sir. I figured we’d end up, if not on the exact same page, then at least in the same chapter.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 12:27

@Lyn87
Convergence at the summit ;)

XS March 19, 2011 at 13:16

@Delusional Damage

I would suggest that your headline “Men’s Liberation Through “Game”” is the crux of the argument here.

You say:

I agree that “game” is a fuzzy concept, but who would have read this article if it were called “Men’s Liberation Through Identity-Level Transformation In Self-Image Regarding Models of Masculine Authority And Their Application To The Modern Environment”? I try to use what has traction with the audience.

As you’ve previously pointed out the posters are split along various lines as to using game, without having a common understanding of what game actually is. It’s clear what game is in the PUA community whether it’s openly defined or not, it’s about gaming women for sex i.e. getting skanks into bed. To suggest that men here are not seeing the bigger picture is being disengenuous. Game is not the answer to the MRM, it may be part of the arsenal but it’s at best a band aid on a severed limb. The PUAs are in general a bunch of peacocking idiots pretending to be alpha males who’ve no interest beyond their own impulses. They are not men, they’ve no interest in men’s rights and can’t think beyond their dicks. This is not a reflection on posters here, such as yourself, who use game in a wider context and see the bigger picture.

I’ve been reading up on game for about the last year, and have tried out the methods with somewhat success. The biggest learning for me was how women actually think and that has had tremendous value after years of scratching my head. Separating the goals of game with the psychology was the learning curve. I’m generally repulsed by western women and don’t find them in the least bit attractive. The thoughts of having sex with a face-painted, peroxide, silicon slut with no personality is repulsive. That’s how bad it’s got, I no longer want to have anything to do with them. I’m not willing to even game them for free sex. I can’t stand most of their company for more than 5 mins, why the hell would I want to master a skill to get them into bed? The only thing I really want to learn from game is how to mess with their heads and deal with them on an everyday level. I guess you could call it revenge, but I’m at least being honest about it.

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TFH March 19, 2011 at 13:26

The Misandry Bubble has the definition of Game clearly highlighted in prominent red letters.

This is not rocket science, people.

Again, most of the people seeking to mischaracterize Game are trying hard to deny that Hawaii Libertarian and other LTR-game types exist….

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TFH March 19, 2011 at 13:35

I would add that the overlap between PUA-Game and LTR Game is still about 80%.

The LTR-Game practitioner does do approaches, has to worry less about LMR, etc. But things like passing tests, doingn takeaways, not being needy, etc. are strongly applicable in both types of Game.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 13:39

@XS

headline

Clearly, a matter of some contention. Still, what could have replaced it?

The PUAs are in general a bunch of…

You are entitled to your opinion, which is what that is. May I humbly suggest though that you may not know them as well as you imply you do.

To suggest that men here are not seeing the bigger picture is…

…precisely what I’m going to do to you right now, based on this:

I can’t stand most of their company for more than 5 mins, why the hell would I want to master a skill to get them into bed?

The skill I have been talking about mastering is, as alluded to earlier, applicable not only to getting them into bed, but also to getting them to behave in less repulsive – even enjoyable – ways. With no sign in your post that you understood this, I must reluctantly suggest that perhaps you are not seeing the complete array of what Game has to offer…

Even so, you are not the optimal MRM target for Game – the men who are currently being led by their penii into the ranks of the dark side are. Game’s use to the MRM is in winning over those men.

TFH March 19, 2011 at 13:42

E wrote :

Is game going to provide me with rent, food, and energy? Is game going to pay for my retirement?

Given that it will help you retain your wealth, rather than lose it to women, yes.

Given that the skills learned in Game help in ALL human interactions, yes.

Any more questions? Or are you in the fingers-in-ears ‘La La La I can’t hear you’ zone?

I will say it again, you are unintelligent. So much here has been explained to you in excruciating detail, yet you seek to avoid being educated.

If all you have got is ‘A real man should have no interest in women period’, you should ask yourself why your cause is unpopular.

DD wrote :

Game is fundamentally about understanding how women function. This knowledge is powerful enough to get you laid, and it is certainly powerful enough to let you control the bitchy tendencies you may find in the women you interact with in non-sexual situations, right up to making them less likely to hit you with a FRA or similar trouble. Whether you want sex or not, understanding the knobs and dials in a woman’s head is of great tactical value.

Yes. Very well said. Unfortunately, too many fools, as seen in some of the comments here, refuse to grasp what you have written.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 13:51

TFH said:

Unfortunately, too many fools, as seen in some of the comments here, refuse to grasp what you have written.

I refer you to comment #11 in this thread:

Delusion Damage March 18, 2011 at 07:00
@AlphA

The worst part is that there are men out there who blatantly REFUSE to be opened up to Game.

The rich get richer and the poor… well, you know what happens to the poor.

Russ March 19, 2011 at 13:57

@Delusion Damage:

Russ said:
– “What happens to civilization if both men and women are acting like complete self absorbed pigs.”

Delusion Damage responded:
- “May he who isn’t a completely self-absorbed pig cast the first stone.”

I understand that it is natural to be a self-absorbed pig. My argument is that I don’t think any of us want to return to the natural state of living in caves, mudhuts, wigwams, etc. and having an average live span of 29 years.

Most of us want to live in civilizations, preferably advanced ones. If we can not control our animal instincts we will be reduced to the above described “natural state.” Fortunately, the fact that civilizations exist, especially advanced ones, is proof that we can control them and behave civilly.

I want to reiterate, I’m not against game. I just think game should be expanded beyond individual men and women to encompass the broader society. Men as a group need to run game on women as a group to save our civilization from its coming collapse.

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TFH March 19, 2011 at 14:05

DD,

The rich get richer and the poor… well, you know what happens to the poor.

Actually, it goes even further.

In economic terms, the rich get richer, and the poor also get richer relative to what they were before, but they don’t rise as quickly as the rich, so they THINK they have fallen behind. But the poor today would be envied by the poor of 50 years ago.

In sexual terms, however, the rich get richer, and an ever-growing percentage of men at the bottom get poorer, with little or no chance of sex. This is evidenced by the increase in mangina behavior, greater lone-nut violence/terrorism, etc.

The sex life of a bottom-40% man today would NOT be envied by a bottom-40% man of 50 years ago.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:11

@ Russ
I have a terrible feeling of slip-and-sliding into one of those drawn-out “we mean almost the same thing but use completely different words” debates (see Lyn87 vs. this article) with you, and I would really like to clear this up quickly without calling in the proverbial lawyers, because I have a feeling that you agree with me 98% and that the remaining 2% will not get hashed out in less than five hours.

I believe the point of contention to be that you differentiate between self-servingness in the traditional sense (caring for one’s on person) and the genetic sense (caring for one’s legacy), and may or may not view one as “less” self-centered than the other.

My point in my previous reply to you was to imply that all human action is self-serving with a difference only in the directness or indirectness of the self-interest.

Whether you agree with me in that or not is so far outside this topic I will not debate it now, so let us just all accept that this is what I meant, and this is the backdrop against which what I have said on the topic should be understood.

Men as a group need to run game on women as a group to save our civilization from its coming collapse.

In as much as this unorthodox application of familiar concepts can be understood to make sense, I would tentatively agree.

TFH March 19, 2011 at 14:12

Russ,

Men as a group need to run game on women as a group to save our civilization from its coming collapse.

Yes! And this point is underdiscussed (or usually scoffed at by the losers).

Think of it this way :

Women are programmed to constantly, persistently test men. When women get the right to vote, their tests become collective, and too powerful for most men to pass. Civilization is imperiled as a result.

It is sort of like kids playing with matches, everything is under control, and then one kid introduces gasoline into the mix.

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XS March 19, 2011 at 14:15

@Delusional Damage

Clearly, a matter of some contention. Still, what could have replaced it?

“Game Theory: An MRM Weapon”

You are entitled to your opinion, which is what that is. May I humbly suggest though that you may not know them as well as you imply you do.

I don’t pretend to be an expert on the subject I’ve just looked at the various sites and videos over the past year and I see a lot of snake-oil salesmen selling the latest psychobabble: using core psychological principles and selling their “added value” to the mindless idiots. It’s been done before, again and again. I would suggest that this association is what some posters here are railing against.

The skill I have been talking about mastering is, as alluded to earlier, applicable not only to getting them into bed, but also to getting them to behave in less repulsive – even enjoyable – ways. With no sign in your post that you understood this, I must reluctantly suggest that perhaps you are not seeing the complete array of what Game has to offer…

I’ve already posted that I see the the array of game applicable in everyday life by extracting the theory from the goals.

Even so, you are not the optimal MRM target for Game – the men who are currently being led by their penii into the ranks of the dark side are. Game’s use to the MRM is in winning over those men.

Yes game is assisting the masses of men in the destruction of feminism but let’s not pretend the PUAs, in general, are part of the MRM or that they can think beyond their penises. It’s not going to help a divorcee from being stripped of his assets and contact with his children. Nor is it going to help men with gender discrimination in the workplace, education, healthcare….

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:19

@ TFH

You are certainly correct in your fine economic analysis, although the sentiment I intended to convey was more in rap terms than historical ones…

Greater lone nut behavior can hardly be attributed to a single cause, though, gov’t and cultural influences play big parts, but of course a lack of female companionship adds heavily into the “men with nothing to lose” category.

I picked out a whole slew of your comments to address in my first megapost up there, don’t know if you noticed but if you’d like to discuss those now is an opportune time.

TFH March 19, 2011 at 14:21

Yes game is assisting the masses of men in the destruction of feminism but let’s not pretend the PUAs, in general, are part of the MRM or that they can think beyond their penises.

They don’t think about Men’s Rights, but without their even realizing it, their actions are destroying misandry.

How?

By making it more costly on men who continue to be manginas/whiteknights. Each man practicing Game deprives 10 manginas of what little scraps they were getting. This is already happening, since we see manginas doubling down on their pedestalization, since the start of 2010.

So yes, even the 22 y/o peacocked PUA, without ever having read about misandric laws, is still doing a lot to destroy the pillars of misandry.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:28

@ TFH

When women get the right to vote, their tests become collective

Actually, it goes even further.
…as I expounded in this piece I wrote for IMF the other day:
http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/03/18/the-herd-giveth-and-the-herd-taketh-away/

@ XS

“Game Theory: An MRM Weapon”

“Game Theory” is a completely different field of science and would have made for a highly confusing title. Thanks, though.

snake-oil salesmen

Any field has its own.

I would suggest that this association is what some posters here are railing against.

Some of them, certainly.

let’s not pretend the PUAs, in general, are part of the MRM

I would never.
All I have suggested is that they happen to have a solution to an MRM problem. They’re not using it to those ends, but it can be borrowed by some who will.

TFH March 19, 2011 at 14:29

DD,

I pretty much agree with everything you have written.

I was not too familiar with your writings until now, but in checking out your blog a minute ago, it seems I have some good reading ahead of me.

One thing that needs to be written about more in the Game sphere :

There are a class of men who understand Game, but have problems with execution. In my local lair, there was a (white) guy who had done hundreds of daygame approaches, got many numbers, but still had not gotten laid even once from all those approaches.

Sure, he might be blundering at a crucial step like Day 2 or sexual escalation, but still… it should not be THAT hard..

There is another (Asian) guy who seems to have everything going for him. On top of Game, he actually has high status through his career. Still, his results are poor. I suspect that every time he makes progress with a white woman, her friends talk her out of having sex with an Asian guy. Thus, even competent Game isn’t working for him.

This sort of troubleshooting needs to be done, for guys doing 90% of the things right, but still falling far short..

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XS March 19, 2011 at 14:34

@TFH

I’m in agreement with you and the OP on this, I’m just saying it’s not a silver bullet and that it has to be taken in context with the wider men’s issues.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:42

TFH said:

I pretty much agree with everything you have written.

I was not too familiar with your writings until now, but in checking out your blog a minute ago, it seems I have some good reading ahead of me.

It would be my privilege.
As someone whose blog I’ve followed since… since before The Misandry Bubble, I think, or sometime right after man invented the wheel… and as one of about two people on the internet whose intelligence I have felt honestly impressed by… coming from you, this means more than words.

troubleshooting

I was led to believe the reason people pay four figures for bootcamps is that this can only be done 1 to 1. Of course, if your example guy happens to get lucky and just run into a post online that hits his sticking point exactly… but how likely is that, and how likely is writing such posts to be or great value to a larger audience segment?

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:44

it’s not a silver bullet and that it has to be taken in context with the wider men’s issues.

Not to be facetious, XS, but shall we put this disclaimer above every post on The Spearhead?

TFH March 19, 2011 at 14:48

XS,

I’m in agreement with you and the OP on this, I’m just saying it’s not a silver bullet and that it has to be taken in context with the wider men’s issues.

Oh, remember that Game is just ONE of the Four Horsemen of Male Emancipation. Check out the other three in the Misandry Bubble (if you have not already).

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Russ March 19, 2011 at 14:48

DD,

Yeah, I think we’re, fundamentally, on the same page and we probably have slid into the realm of navel gazing.

Just to clarify my stance on the issue of game. Individual men should use it, but to create stable monogamous relationships that produce lots of children. (I know that’s a tall order.)

Then those men should work together to game the entire system with the goal of restoring women to there rightful place as responsible wives, mothers, and homemakers.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:53

@ Russ
I’m not convinced that technological progress can’t liberate us from the requirement of enforcing monogamy to uphold civilization – I’m still young, you see, and all things being equal, I would check the box that says “lots of sex with a variety of attractive partners, no wives or homemaking please”. If we can have our civilization and eat it too, that would be the goal I would set.

XS March 19, 2011 at 14:57

@Delusional Damage

“Game Theory” is a completely different field of science and would have made for a highly confusing title. Thanks, though.

It was just a suggestion if it’s not accurate then so be it, the general intention was that game is not a panacea.

Any field has its own.

True, but the self-help industry is rife with snake-oil salesmen and I see the game industry as just the latest psychobabble money spinner.

TFH:

There are a class of men who understand Game, but have problems with execution. In my local lair, there was a (white) guy who had done hundreds of daygame approaches, got many numbers, but still had not gotten laid even once from all those approaches.

Sure, he might be blundering at a crucial step like Day 2 or sexual escalation, but still… it should not be THAT hard..

There is another (Asian) guy who seems to have everything going for him. On top of Game, he actually has high status through his career. Still, his results are poor. I suspect that every time he makes progress with a white woman, her friends talk her out of having sex with an Asian guy. Thus, even competent Game isn’t working for him.

@Delusional Damage

I would never.

You already did:

Game’s use to the MRM is in winning over those men.

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Russ March 19, 2011 at 14:57

TFH wrote:

Think of it this way :

Women are programmed to constantly, persistently test men. When women get the right to vote, their tests become collective, and too powerful for most men to pass. Civilization is imperiled as a result.

It is sort of like kids playing with matches, everything is under control, and then one kid introduces gasoline into the mix.

A few days ago The Spearpoint posted a review of a Phylis Schafly book. The reviewer noted that Phylis hypothesized that feminism was fundamentally about driving women out of the home and into the workforce. Many have claimed that this was done in order to destroy unions and the wage scale, because, they believed, the labor market was like any other market and could be effected by supply and demand – the more people in the labor market the lower the cost of labor. And they were right.

But that was only part of the equation. The real goal was to drive women out of the home and into the public sphere where they would destroy civilization. The people responsible for this knew what they were doing. Why’d they do it? And more importantly, who the fuck are they?

I’ll give you a hint it ain’t women and it ain’t “alpha males.” The beta-bitch White men currently representative of the “elite classes” are a bunch of dumb, weak, corrupt sociopaths that couldn’t organize a family BBQ.

Again, I repeat, who did this to us?

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Keoni Galt March 19, 2011 at 14:58

From a post I wrote back in July of 2010:

Deansdale wrote this about game:

Game is a box of tools, with manuals on when and how to use them. Actually it can not “not work”. It can be misused in a number of ways but that’s the user’s fault. If you’re an apprentice in – let’s say – blacksmithing, and you know only how to operate the bellows, your success as a blacksmith will be very limited. If someone gives you a hammer and tells you how to use it then it’s up to you how you manage, but simply saying that the hammer “does not work” is foolish.

Great analogy…one for which I’d like to expand on a little: seems to me that a lot of the criticism of “GAME” comes from people who look at the majority of it’s proponents – the PUA – and say that it’s bad. To use Deansdale’s analogy, a hammer can be used for more than just pounding nails, no?

Same thing with this tool we call “game.”

Understanding what women find attractive has so many more applications than simply trying to seduce hotties into bed. See what happens when you “run game” on a waitress, or a bartender, or some other woman you interact with for which you have no romantic or sexual interest in. I’m talking about playful negging (cocky and funny), DHV’s, comfort and rapport building, acting confidently and assertively, etc. while dealing with ANY women…including relatives.

Even women who are not interested in you in a sexual way will still eat it up, and you’ll find that this “tool” of Game will serve as a social lubricant that can get you a freebie dessert from an amused waitress, or perhaps some banter with a receptionist might find her able to “slide you in” an overbooked schedule…or a female bartender might give you a drink “on the house.” Furthermore, if you do this in front of a women you actually do want to seduce, you will also increase her own attraction for you as well, as it will validate to her that you are authentic, and not just putting up a front to get into her panties. As I’ve said before, understanding the concept of game is life changing, not just sex-life changing.

You see, just as a woman with a pretty face, a great rack and a plump ass finds such favors are regularly given her simply by men who find her physical appearance easy on the eyes…

…so too do women react to men who use the tools of “game” in a no-sexual-intentions sort of way.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:01

@ XS
You already did:

Game’s use to the MRM is in winning over those men.

What I did was say that the methods developed by the PUAs can be useful, not that the PUAs themselves have ever heard of the MRM or would care if they did. Sorry if I was unclear.

Also, it’s “delusion damage”, like “flood damage”, not “delusional damage” like “spinal damage”.

TFH March 19, 2011 at 15:02

DD,

Thanks! In fact, the ‘Herd Giveth’ article is so good that I will have to add it to the ‘Required Reading’ section of The Misandry Bubble, a list that has not seen additions in several months.

And this current article should be a nominee for the ‘Best of Spearhead’ list that Welmer is thinking about.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:04

@ Russ
who did this to us?

It’s been suggested that it was a reptile alien conspiracy directed by Xenu… it’s also been suggested that it was some self-serving politician who wanted a few extra terms in office on the female vote once he won their goodwill by giving them the vote… many other options have also been suggested. Personally, I lean toward the simpler explanations.

XS March 19, 2011 at 15:13

@Delusion Damage

What I did was say that the methods developed by the PUAs can be useful, not that the PUAs themselves have ever heard of the MRM or would care if they did. Sorry if I was unclear.

No problem, always happens with typing rather than talking, like this:

Also, it’s “delusion damage”, like “flood damage”, not “delusional damage” like “spinal damage”.

It was a typo and not an underhanded attack, my apologies for the error.

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TFH March 19, 2011 at 15:15

I would point out that ‘Game’ is a poor term, and that ‘Venusian Arts’ is a better term, and more self-explanatory.

‘The Art of Seduction’ is tempting to use, but misleading. Seduction before attraction or comfort leads to flaking. This is why Ross Jeffries waned away – he mastered seduction completely, but never figured out that one had to have attraction and comfort first, and never mentioned any concept like the 7-hour rule. Instead, Ross Jeffries claimed that his methods could get women in bed in 20 minutes. Thus, his solution was incomplete, and he never figured out why. People using his methods alone would make women horny only to see them flake almost every time.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:15

TFH

Thank you. In the words of some guy (whose name I don’t remember because I never memorize who said something, only what was said), “this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.” Barring, of course, that you run into something irreconcilable reading my site… you never know.

If you choose to nominate this article, I’m sure W will take your recommendation seriously – from what I can tell, he seems to hold you in high regard. Me, I’m not so sure – I’ve had a few of my more controversial articles axed lately and whether that was W’s personal dislike or simply guarding the Spearhead pot from boiling over remains something of a question mark to me, but maybe you have enough pull with him for it not to matter whose writing you support.

In any case, I consider inclusion into TMB an honor.

@ XS
So often the way. No harm done.

TFH March 19, 2011 at 15:18

On the female vote : it was inevitable.

In the world today, there are countries where no one gets to vote (China being the biggest one).

There are about 70 countries where men and women get to vote.

But there is currently NO country where only men get to vote. Every democracy allows both men and women to vote.

The thing is, women having voting rights is not troubling at first, as most women are socialized to be wives and mothers. It takes 2-3 generations for women to destroy the very institutions that civilized them, replace the state with the husband and family, and devolve backwards. We are currently at that state. Hence, the cost of female voting is not immediate, but incurred about 100 years after it begins.

Check the state of America 2019 (100 years after female suffrage).

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:25

@ Keoni Galt
I hereby officially endorse what you said.

@ TFH
If we’re going to go into who votes worse than whom, men are hardly much better than women on this one. Both are completely for sale to advertisers (and by advertisers I mean “get your hope and change here, four years for the price of one vote”).

Russ March 19, 2011 at 15:39

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 14:53

@ Russ
I’m not convinced that technological progress can’t liberate us from the requirement of enforcing monogamy to uphold civilization – I’m still young, you see, and all things being equal, I would check the box that says “lots of sex with a variety of attractive partners, no wives or homemaking please”. If we can have our civilization and eat it too, that would be the goal I would set.

Well you should be convince because technology has absolutely nothing to do with maintaining advanced human societies. People do. It takes disciplined, hard-working folks who are willing to accept the difficulties inherent in creating and maintaining advanced civilizations and to make the requisite sacrifices.

This means monogamous long-term partnerships vested in raising children form birth to adult-hood. Most MRAs are aware of the importance of biological fathers remaining in the home is to both the physical and mental well-being of their children.

Collectively, children not raised by a biological father are incapable of creating or even maintaining an advanced civilization.

And whether you prefer it or not a home does have to be made for those children.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:45

@ Russ

I suggest you read Jacque Fresco’s treatise on what future technology could do for us – you might be surprised at how much could be replaced even with small tech advances.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/images/stories/Looking-Forward-v2.pdf

Russ March 19, 2011 at 15:49

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:04

@ Russ
who did this to us?

It’s been suggested that it was a reptile alien conspiracy directed by Xenu… it’s also been suggested that it was some self-serving politician who wanted a few extra terms in office on the female vote once he won their goodwill by giving them the vote… many other options have also been suggested. Personally, I lean toward the simpler explanations.

Yeah, I’m also a big fan of Fr. Occam, not so much of David Icke.

The “self-serving politicians who wanted a few extra terms in office on the female vote” explanation doesn’t really explain it for a couple of reason. 1. how come no politician ever did this before what changed in the middle part of the last century to bring this thinking about. And 2. because any man knows that giving women the vote and then pandering to them will ultimately lead to him being put out of office by female candidates. Kind of like what happens when we flood areas with non-Whites pretty soon they vote the Whites out of office and only elect their fellow non-Whites.

The reptile thing is probably a little closer to the truth in the sense that it is “aliens” doing this to us. Albeit not of the space-faring kind but rather the foreigner, not-of-our-nation kind.

Now, I’ll give you another hint, it isn’t blacks, Hispanics, Asians, American Indians, Arabs, or Pacific-Islanders doing this to us either.

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XS March 19, 2011 at 15:54

@Delusion Damage

@ Russ

I suggest you read Jacque Fresco’s treatise on what future technology could do for us – you might be surprised at how much could be replaced even with small tech advances.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/images/stories/Looking-Forward-v2.pdf

The Venus Project is just another bait and switch of the elites’ agenda, cramming humans into souless cities and further removing autonomy. Like having sex with a woman with botox and silicon.

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Russ March 19, 2011 at 15:54

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:45

@ Russ

I suggest you read Jacque Fresco’s treatise on what future technology could do for us – you might be surprised at how much could be replaced even with small tech advances.

It’s not what can be replaced that is at stake here. It’s morality. Or more accurately the imposition/acceptance of the correct morality. If technology is determining and imposing morality then we are in serious trouble. In fact, once technology can do this there will be no need for us at all. The technology that can do that would, almost by definition, be superior to us and if it decided that we were competing for the same resources would instinctively move to remove the competition.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:56

@ Russ
Birds of a feather stick together… if the feather happens to be covered in money, intelligence and a family-centric culture, can you really blame that group for gaining influence? That’s just what happens.

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 16:03

@ Russ
Robots rising to exterminate humans is… just not going to happen unless we let some homicidal idiot program the robots. It makes a nice movie but really, it’s hardly more likely than those catastrophe movies where the sun suddenly stops shining or something similar. Remember that tech does not have instincts – it’s not an evolved organism.

@ XS

the elites’ agenda, cramming humans into souless cities and further removing autonomy

Do you think you have any autonomy now?

Russ March 19, 2011 at 16:23

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:56

@ Russ
Birds of a feather stick together… if the feather happens to be covered in money, intelligence and a family-centric culture, can you really blame that group for gaining influence? That’s just what happens.

Aaah. So you’re one of them. I don’t hold it against you. I just don’t want you influencing anything in my country. Go to your country and do it.

It’s interesting to note that you encourage Whites to be self-absorbed individuals, knowing that it will destroy us, but you acknowledge that your people have been successful, at least in part, because they are “family-centric.”

OMT, you people aren’t winning because you’re rich, smart, and “family-centric” you’re winning because you cheat. You pass laws that outlaw Whites working together and because you make the laws, you know you can break them, so you routinely discriminate against other with impunity. That’s what gives you the advantage.

One final thing. Manufactured consent isn’t consent and WE DON’T CONSENT.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 16:33

@ Russ
I am 100% White and 0% Jewish.
Thank you for playing, but I believe it’s time to conclude this conversation now.

Epoche* March 19, 2011 at 16:33

I suggest you read Jacque Fresco’s treatise on what future technology could do for us – you might be surprised at how much could be replaced even with small tech advances.
————————–
John Glubb covered all of this beforehand. The idea that technology and science can replace personal responsibility and the traditional family is evidently the work of simpletons. Lets say that some advanced nanotechnology comes out in the near future, people still need to get on the roof. The problems of capital and saving wont be solved by the state insuring us all against risk or advanced mathematical models. Even allowing for the idea that really great childcare is provided by the state, bureaucrats wont care about that kid on the weekend or when they turn 18.

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Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 16:44

@ Epoche
It is evident in your comment that you have in fact not familiarized yourself with the suggested material, as evidenced by your making claims about the material that wildly contradict the material.

I can only guess at why you thought it would be a good idea to engage in debate about something you are not familiar with, but I for one see nothing to be gained by participating in a discussion with someone who does not know what he is discussing, so kindly excuse me from that conversation until you can demonstrate that you have read the book.

Paul March 19, 2011 at 18:15

Delusion Damage believes in the biggest lie of all time: utopia.
This is the same no-economy/withering away of the state bullshit that marxists and communists of all stripes preach. This guy is a fool.

http://delusiondamage.com/hidden-truths/the-resource-based-economy/

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ruddyturnstone March 19, 2011 at 18:59

“I used to think Roosh was being too harsh in the way he slams the Game-doubters who still think they can be MRA. But this sort of thing makes me think Roosh has it right…”

Is GAME going to get the feminist/chivalric laws changed?
Is GAME going to get the feminist/chivalric concepts that govern society changed?

I don’t think so.

GAME is a side issue. MRAs want to change society, and GAME will not do that. So, sorry, but Roosh is simply wrong. One can “doubt” GAME and still work for the changes described above. One can “believe” in GAME and not work for the changes described above. Belief in GAME does not make a good MRA, nor does doubting it make one a bad MRA.

GAME is good for guys who want to get laid . But getting laid doesn’t change the law or social practices. It’s a side issue. No guy should want an LTR with a Western woman, so whether GAME helps in getting one, or keeping one, or not, is also a side issue.

As for understanding how women think, I already understand it. I understand it through personal experience and through knowledge of history, sociology, and biology, including evolutionary biology. GAME might help me to use that knowledge to get a woman to want to sleep with me, or, perhaps, to want be or stay in an LTR with me. But, again, getting laid is just not that important to me, and getting laid with a higher number ranking woman than I could otherwise is even less so. And I want no part of an LTR with any woman, whatever her number. Nor do I think GAME is a necessary prerequisite for making an effort to being a better man generally, for one who thinks such an effort is desirable. Thus, GAME is of no importance to me personally. As a middle aged MGTOW, GAME means nothing to me, although, as I said, it’s fine for the younger guys to whom getting laid is important.

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XS March 19, 2011 at 19:08

@Delusion Damage

Do you think you have any autonomy now?

I was wondering at what stage of development you’re at but unfortunetly you’ve revealed yourself to be at the early stage. Too many sci-fi movies and new age propaganda has rendered you a tool for the elites. This is a man to man slap across the face to wake up.

Have you ever travelled across Western Europe?

I like to use The Netherlands as the modern day dystopia which is what you’re promoting. It’s a very small country of 16 million people tightly contracted into cities. Go ahead and have a look at the countryside, there is none, just endless excessive farming. All the trees are spaced evenly apart, the rows of crops are geometricaly aligned, acres of glasshouses evenly spaced apart. No real wilderness, no chance of walking into nature. The beaches? Yes there are beaches but they’re overshadowed by development and the Dutch have no grasp of what it means to take a quiet moonlight walk.

Now let me ask you this, in the modern cities the Venus Project is promoting who has control over food? Who has control over the land between the cities? Who owns the cities?

Could it be the same elites who are promoting feminism?

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Russ March 19, 2011 at 19:44

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 16:33

@ Russ
I am 100% White and 0% Jewish.
Thank you for playing, but I believe it’s time to conclude this conversation now.

Coulda fooled me. Generally the only people who vehemently argue for self-destructive individualism, especially after admitting that the “family-centric” approach is superior, and is at least partly responsible for the Jews success in dominating our government and institutions.

And why do you use such girly Jewspeak phrases like: “Thank you for playing, but I believe it’s time to conclude this conversation now.” Adult White men usually don’t talk that way to one another.

If you’re not Jewish, the brainwashing sure has taken.

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Russ March 19, 2011 at 19:54

The first paragraph above should have read, “Generally, Jews are the only people who vehemently argue for self-destructive individualism . . .”

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Russ March 19, 2011 at 19:57

Paul March 19, 2011 at 18:15

Delusion Damage believes in the biggest lie of all time: utopia.

Nah. The biggest lie of all time: “Feminism just happened.”

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Epoche* March 19, 2011 at 23:13

Delusion Damage I am well acquainted with thinkers such as Comte, Marx, Fourier which are the historical antecedents of your ideas. Ludwig Von Mises wrote a book called The Ultimate Foundation of Economics to explain why man is not like an insect whose activities can be managed like an ant farm. All utopianism is about we will give you a great life and its just around the corner but you have to give us your rubies and diamonds first.

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fmz March 19, 2011 at 23:18

Psycho-babble is interesting like making shapes outta clouds and similarly, useless and redundant, in any practical sense.

As has been said, Game is glorified self-absorbed pick-up.
A symptom of feminised culture and delude navel gazing.

Its blue pill or red pill.
Take the blue one, go back to sleep. Keep dreaming of tuna-tinged heaven.
Take the red one, wake up and never go back to the bullshiat programming you have been infected with.

BUT… the red pill reailty is no fun. At first. It takes much mental energy to slough off the feel good high of blue pill addiction. If you are a constitutional addict, replete with hamster like rationalisation of your addiction(s), then the red pill isn’t for you.

In truth prolly only 5-10% of men and 1% of women can stomach the red pill.
—————————————————————————————

All a man needs to know to find, take and digest that red pill is… GYOW.

There is no other way.

Lead your own deluded self out of illusion.

The rest will follow and most of it will be unwanted.

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Delusion Damage March 20, 2011 at 02:23

@ Paul
I will gladly debate the merits of Fresco’s model with you when you’ve read the literature and shed your misconceptions of it being anything like any other ideology you’ve ever seen. “Utopia” is just a word: 1000 years ago they’d probably have called what we have now a utopia – don’t get hung up on the word. The fact is, marxist ideologies don’t work because they go against human nature and disincentivize constructive endeavors while encouraging corruption – Fresco’s model does not have that problem and can’t really be called marxist at all. I suggest you read his work, and once you have, I promise to listen with rapt attention when you eloquently prove him wrong. It’s not an emotional issue for me – I simply don’t see any big flaws in his model, and if you can show me them I will be more than happy to change my views.

@ XS
It’s obvious that you are not familiar with Fresco either – The Netherlands’ current state has almost nothing in common with his model, and the way you ask “who has control” over this and that shows that you are not familiar with his ideas about eliminating centralized government. Same goes for you as for the guy above, if you can prove Fresco wrong once you actually know what he’s talking about, I’m open to that.

@ Russ
It’s called polite discourse – the point is to show that I have nothing against you, but if you’re going to resort to accusing me of participation in a conspiracy I’m not even sure exists in the sinister form you claim, I don’t really know what I can say to that. Again, if you show me undeniable proof then I’m more than willing to believe you, but as it stands, I’m just not sure that a Jewish conspiracy should be my foremost worry. I acknowledge that Jews can be found in positions of influence more often than statistics would predict, but I attribute this to the causes I stated before – money, intelligence, keeping the fruits of their successes in their own community.
My take on conspiracies in general – Jews, NWO, Bilderberg, CFR, JFK, UFOs – is that from the viewpoint of a citizen, there is no reliable source that can really be trusted to tell us the absolute truth on who really runs what in the world. All we have is second-hand rumors, many of which contradict each other, and I’m not ready to accept those beliefs as my own without some tangible evidence. If you can give me that, I’m with you, but even if you can’t, at least you know that I’m not with “them”, whoever “they” are.
As interested as you are in eliminating the elites’ control of the masses, I highly suggest you read Jacque Fresco as well, because he does in fact have some pretty good solutions for that.

also… “The biggest lie of all time: “Feminism just happened.””
I don’t recall ever saying that, but in a manner of speaking everything “just happened” – I didn’t mean to imply that it happened without a conscious agenda, I meant that given the circumstances and the people in certain positions, how could you expect it not to happen.

Delusion Damage March 20, 2011 at 02:26

@ Epoche
The historical antecedent of democracy is tyranny – we’re a long way from Marx and Von Mises now. Just because a new thing at a glance kind of looks like an old thing that didn’t work doesn’t mean the new thing isn’t a lot better. In conclusion, read the material and then you can prove it wrong.

Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) March 20, 2011 at 06:16

DD

“Why do men continue to take such a devil’s deal?”

Because they love their slavery. I have shown men how to be free. They don’t want to be free. I showed men how to refuse to pay alimony or child support. But they pay it anyway. Well? That is THEIR choice. If men were interested I could also show them how to rescind consent to pay income taxes and just pay lawful taxes. But if they like to pay their alimony and child support I don’t think they are going to want to stop paying income taxes. Do you? Aaron Russo proved beyond all doubt that in the US there is no law requiring the payment of income taxes.

Poiuyt March 18, 2011 at 05:14
“Why cannot Games exponents not talk and teach us more about methods of gamming the Government and the State?”

Poiuyt. I have publilshed how to rescind consent to be governed. You might call that ‘gaming’ the state. But men like being slaves. THEIR choice. THEIR problem.
http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/58/scope/threads/Default.aspx

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) March 20, 2011 at 06:21

Delusion Damage March 19, 2011 at 15:45

DD. Are you not aware that the venus project is run by the Illuminati to offer “utopia” to the very ignorant?

A member of the venus project came to the Irish Freeman site suggesting more collaboration. I asked him to explain why NO MENTION of the fact that western women are liars and hypocrites has ever been published in any of the movies and that no explanation was forthcoming in this future plan as to how womens relationship to men was properly characterised as ‘parasitic’ and how they proposed to deal with this….as marriage had dealt with it previously.

The member was not able to answer ANY of these very simple questions.

The venus project is a scam. Period.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) March 20, 2011 at 06:31

DD,
as a fairly recently ‘liberated man’ I can point out I didn’t achieve it through ‘game’. I have very little ‘game’ and I really don’t see the need for it at my age and income. I can see that younger men would find it useful. I was having a beer with a Romanian friend of mine in London friday night. I was laughing with him how my totality of ‘game’ today is to merely tell eastern european women how much money I earn and that I travel all over the world for my job. My friend nearly spat his beer over me as he laughed his arse off. He knows full well how ‘attractive’ I am to millions upon millions of EEW! LOL!

Liberation, for a man, comes from knowledge. The knowledge of how to deal with guvments and their policy enforcement officers. I was at Stanstead airport friday morning. After completing the ‘border entry’ using my Australian passport I gave the border agent my card and told him to please pass it to the most senior man in border patrol at the airport. I showed him my World Passport and told him that he had no right to impede my progress and that he had been lied to by Gordon Brown, David Cameron and the ‘Home Office’. The guy was very skeptical. I told him I had compeleted the lawful process of noticing David Cameron of my right to travel on the land known as England and that David was unable to rebutt my affidavit. The guy giggled nervously so I told him I was completely serious and that he would be committing a crime to try and detain me. I explained to him that I had no hard feelings towards him and his colleagues. I just want them to obey the law. He was very surprised at my comments but said “Ok. I’ll pass it along. You sound like you know what you are talking about. I think you are wrong. But I sure would like to know about this myself.”

Has ONE other man helped me with the world passport? No. NOT ONE. You men love your slavery and you are welcome to it.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) March 20, 2011 at 06:49

TFH March 19, 2011 at 14:12
“Women are programmed to constantly, persistently test men.”

TFH. Correct. I met a ‘prospective’ fav#5 recently. Nowadays I have the conversation about how bad western women are almost immediately to test out the womans attitude to western women and not a few EEW. I pointed out that women continually ‘shit-test’ men and that us alphas just ignore such tests or move on. She commented this is exactly correct. Women test men to see how ‘hooked’ they are. The betas get hooked. The alphas move on. As a ‘recovering beta’ I have my sad days that I have split from my favs1/4. But getting to know this ‘prospective’ fav#5 is a lovely experience. She just shakes her head at my comments about how men are treated today. She knows it’s true. She sees it all the time.

I was talking to another EEW recently and noted my fav#1 comment that “women do not know what they want to be happy, they need to be told what they can have by their man and told to be happy about it.” She told me this was exactly correct. I also commented on “when a woman makes an agry remark to a man the man must stomp on her and put her in her place.” She also said this was exactly correct.

I then pointed out that the fact that if a man puts his wife over his knee and spanks her backside to ‘put her in her place’ she will call the cops and she gets the house and kids he goes to jail for the night and then is living in a shoe box. So men no longer discipline women and ‘put them in their place’. As a result women are miserable. She looked at me like I had just read her the secret of turning lead into gold. For some reason she had never understood this. I also pointed out that because men were now no longer willing to control women and ‘put them in their place’ the men were giving up on women as wives and just ‘dating’ them. Men just exactly like me. Men who were married are telling the married men to leave and the unmarried men to refuse to marry. Men just like me will date women for a while and when it finally sinks in we are not going to have children we move on and find another one. This too seemed like a ‘bolt out of the blue’ to this woman. I pointed out to her that at least I was honest about my refusal to marry or have more children but that all a man had to do to be able to keep a women going was to lie to her on these points. I also pointed out the lie was not detectable and that it would take any woman a few years to be able to realise he was lying. This too seemed like a bolt out of the blue.

What did monty python call it? “Subject. The bleeding obvious”.

Women were required to ‘test’ men to find one that would be more likely to remain with her during the period of her having children. The females selection of a mate could be as important as life and death for the woman and children. A bad husband is a disaster for a woman. But now they want the ‘right’ to leave the men? The men are refusing the ‘tests’. Hhhmmm.

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mgtow March 20, 2011 at 08:50

Let me summarize this:

1) Don’t want sex? Go your own way, ghost. Avoid contact with all women, or at least minimize it. If you need to jack off, go ahead.

2) Want sex? Learn and practice game. Crash course on game: Leykis 101 and Roissy. Use common sense and tread carefully. Alternatively, do not feel ashamed to utilize the services of a professional honest girl if so inclined.

In both 1) and 2), the common ground is to avoid marriage, LTRs (don’t make it last for 2 years or more, or you’ll be considered married in some places). You will not cohabit. You will not make babies. You will not have a ‘meet the parents’ session.

Harsh? Nihilistic? Fatalistic? Cynical? Hardly.
This is a gender war. and the world is against us men, trying to screw us over because we have a penis between our legs.

What we’re doing is self-preservation, on a fundamental, personal level. Nothing is more important than that.

They will not fight fair (remember Proboards?), so neither should we fight fair, and take the high road.

And for those of you who insist that marriage and children are essential for civilization/society/continuation of the species… you can go ahead and take up my share of the ‘be fruitful and multiply’ divine duty.

The poor, the dumb and the religious will always breed, so there is zero chance of humans going extinct….unless there’s a fatal pandemic, nuclear holocaust or global cataclysm.

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Firepower March 20, 2011 at 10:45

Men’s Liberation Through “Game”

by Delusion Damage

BS.

NOTHING good ever came out of simultaneously, erroneously tying “Freedom” to how much pleasure your dick gets – from poon, no less.

Might as well say “Hedonism saves the world.” An equally stupid statement.

NO.
Liberation will ONLY come about the tried and true historical way: violence or the threat of it.

Any “man” that links his personal liberation to a rich entrepreneur in a furry hat and feather boa deserves his ignominious end.

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Attila March 20, 2011 at 11:10

An acquaintance of mine from North Africa explained to me that under Islamic law – a wife is NOT encouraged to refuse her husband’s sexual advances (no headaches please!).

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CSPB March 20, 2011 at 12:56

How do the guys that make their living teaching Game market their material? It is simple. They market it as learning how to get laid by hot women. The PUA part of it is what sells. But the other aspects of it are where the true value is.

Face it, many men settle and marry a woman that will have him so he can get regular sex. What if he knew he had options and was adept at meeting new woman? He wouldn’t put up with much shit from one just because he was getting laid. He would have the self confidence to say NEXT.

So the fact that Game is marketed as a Pick-Up tool is immaterial to the overall usefulness of Game. This is only marketing/advertising in a manner to get men to buy. Nothing new here and this in no way takes away the value of Game for self improvement and adeptness at social interactions.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) March 20, 2011 at 13:48

Firepower March 20, 2011 at 10:45
Liberation will ONLY come about the tried and true historical way: violence or the threat of it.

Correct. Unless a man is willing to back up his willingness to defend his rights he has claimed then he is a slave. Because THEY will use violence against you.

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fmz March 20, 2011 at 16:01

“Game is a box of tools…”

With only a hammer in there, everything looks like a nail after a while.

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DirkJohanson March 20, 2011 at 18:29

@ Russ. I’m curious. What Native American tribe do you hail from?

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Lia S. March 21, 2011 at 21:03

Reading the resistance from men regarding game is drawing a parallel to women who resist anti-feminism, despite the fact that it is set in actual human interaction with various truths. It’s all very ironic and humorous at the same time.

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Russ March 22, 2011 at 00:02

DirkJohanson March 20, 2011 at 18:29

@ Russ. I’m curious. What Native American tribe do you hail from?

The only Native American tribe I’m aware of is “American.”

Do your mean to ask me, which American Indian tribe do I hail from?

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Russ March 22, 2011 at 00:08

@DD,

Feminism will not be defeated, until we understand who is at the root of it and what their intentions are.

Most solutions coming from MRAs are simply band-aids on the herpes sore. We need to address the virus.

As far as sources are concerned, the historical sources are crystal clear on who runs the Western World (and through it, the rest of the world), and it is Jews.

Mind you, I’m not saying Jews run the world, I’m saying the people, that run the world, are Jews.

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assman March 22, 2011 at 18:23

Game is not making yourself attractive to the opposite sex.

Game is exactly making yourself more attractive the opposite sex. The obsession with displaying attractive behaviours is precisely why Game doesn’t work.

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Lord Viktor March 23, 2011 at 11:18

Game is all well and good if you have experience fucking women, but what’s a man to do if he’s a virgin? What if he can’t afford to go to a brothel and doesn’t want to take the risk of getting busted by an undercover PIG posing as a hooker?

What these fucking PUA gurus never tell you is:

Women HATE virgin males! HATE THEM!!
The male virgin is fucked from the get-go because women view the Male Virgin as a LOSER. This is something you will NEVER read in a PUA manual, if you are older virgin, no amount of Game is going to save you! You will be destroyed the INSTANT your inexperience is revealed.

And believe me, buddy, I don’t care how smooth you are at the bar, if you’re a Fake Playa, your prowess in the bedroom will reveal your phoniness in seconds.

And here’s another thing the PUA gurus will never tell you:

If there’s anything women despise more than a Fake Playa or (even worse, the Male Virgin), it’s being SEDUCED by one!

This will kick her Anti-Slut Defense into OVERDRIVE and once that happens, no Shakespearean prose shall be able to describe the volcanic fury that will rage inside her should you fail to please her in the bedroom!

“You tricked me, you BASTARD!!!!” is what she’ll be thinking as she comes up with several ways to utterly fuck up your sorry life for daring to use such deception as a means to enter your disgusting penis in her sacred temple.

Which brings me to THIS little gem that’s been hidden from public knowledge by your beloved PUA gurus!

God forbid, should a girl have “buyer’s remorse” for fucking you, she can do anything she wants to you, including crying “rape” and having you thrown in jail for the next ten thousand years.

And not a goddamn amount of Game is going to save you from that shit, motherfucker.

Whether it’s because you’re a virgin or a Fake Playa or even a REAL Playa, if a girl regrets having sex with you there is NOTHING you can do to save yourself but accept that you are at her fucking mercy.

You can use more Game to sweet talk her out of punishing / destroying you but ultimately, it’s completely her call and there ain’t goddamn thing you can do about it!

How liberated do you feel now, Mr. Big Bad Playa Man?

Because yes, you REAL Playas are just as vulnerable as the Fakes and the Virgins. The Real Playas can only reduce their risks of being destroyed by a woman, but a woman can change the rules at any moment. And you won’t be able to use Game on the judge or the cops or any of her girlfriends once word about you gets out!

I’m out!

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Common Monster April 9, 2011 at 12:38

If I wanted to create a virus to destroy the MRM and make its members all like every other bunch of stoopid morons arguing over women, “Game” would be it.

How to Prevent Social Change

The following is from the book “No Contest” by Alfie Kohn (c.1987):

Unfortunately, bringing about structural change of any kind requires overcoming enormous resistance. It is much easier to describe how change can be blocked than how it can be furthered. For those so inclined, then, here are five simple ways to perpetuate the status quo:

#1: Limit Your Vision

The long-standing American tradition of ignoring the structural causes of social and individual problems was mentioned in Chapter 7. By pretending, for example, that psychological disturbance has nothing to do with the societal forces that shape personality development, you can help see to it that those forces continue unabated. It follows that all intervention should be done at the individual level [which is precisely where PUA/"Game" is directed]. It is fine to help, say, homeless people on a case-by-case basis, but inquiring into the policy decisions and economic arrangements that have brought about their predicament would only serve to invite drastic change — and that is what we want to avoid at all costs. Similarly, if we continue to treat each example of corporate wrongdoing (from illegal dumping of toxic wastes to bribing of public officials) as if it has occurred in a vacuum, then we can manage to preserve the system responsible for these acts.

#2: Adapt

The best way to keep the status quo intact is to make sure that individuals adjust themselves to serve its needs. Such adaptation once was enforced by crude, authoritarian methods of ‘re-education’. Today this is hardly necessary. A wealth of advice is available on how to become successful — what to wear, how to negotiate, and so forth [R. Don Steele anyone?] — and virtually all of it proceeds from the premise that you should adjust yourself to conditions as you find them. Adaptation is a critical part of the self-help model: you must succeed within the institutions and according to the rules that already exist. To do well is to fit in, and to fit in is to fortify the structures into which you are being fit.

#3: Think About Yourself

Implicit in any exhortations to succeed by ‘giving them what they want’ is the suggestion that you should be totally preoccupied with your own well-being. The more you limit your concerns to yourself, the more you help to sustain the larger system. But this does not apply merely to material success. Even therapeutic and spiritual enterprises are useful for preserving the status quo because in encouraging you to attend to your own needs, they effectively direct attention away from social structures. Groom yourself and let the rest of the world go on its way — what better strategy is there for perpetuating existing structures?

A few people may argue, it is true, that personal growth can be a route to social change. But most of the human potential movement will not require you to wrestle with this question, since social change is irrelevant to its goals and techniques.

#4: Be “Realistic”

Fortunately, it is not necessary for you to defend the larger system. You can even nod in sympathetic agreement with someone who indicts it. But it is crucial that this nodding be accompanied by a shrug. Phrases such as ‘like it or not’ and ‘that’s just the way it is’ should be employed liberally in order to emphasize that nothing can be done about the larger picture. Such protestations of powerlessness are actually very powerful, of course, since they make sure that things are left exactly as they are. Every person who is encouraged to take such a stance is another person rescued from social activism.

Occasionally a critic will refuse to resign himself to the way things are or to believe that we are helpless to make change. Such an individual should immediately be labeled ‘idealistic’. Do not be concerned about the vaguely complimentary connotations of having ideals. It will be understood that an idealist is someone who does not understand ‘the world as it is’ (‘world’ = ‘our society’; ‘as it is’ = ‘as it will always be’). This label efficiently calls attention to the critic’s faulty understanding of reality or ‘human nature’ and insures that he is not taken seriously. Those who are ‘pragmatic’, by contrast, know that we must work within the confines of what we are given. After all, if alternative models really were workable, we would already be using them.

Appeals to realism have the value of allowing you to avoid messy discussions about the value of a critic’s position (and thus of the status quo). Why bother with such issues when you can dismiss his vision as ‘well-meaning but unworkable’? Challenging the rightness of what he is proposing will only slow him down; it is the appeal to practicality that produces the knockout. Call someone wrongheaded or even evil and a lengthy discussion may follow. Call him utopian or naive and there is nothing more to be said. This method of dismissing models of change is uniquely effective since it sets up a self-fulfilling prophecy. If enough people insist that an alternative arrangement cannot work, they will be right. Its failure then can be cited as substantiation of one’s original skepticism.

#5: Rationalize

It is easier for critics to oppose existing institutions when those who defend and profit from them are obviously opposed to social change. You can make it more difficult for these critics — and salve your own conscience at the same time — by claiming that your real reason for acting as you do is to ‘change the system from within’. Like most people who talk this way, of course, you do not actually have to make change. On the contrary, even if this really were your goal, you would be permitted to work only for insignificant reforms that never come close to challenging the structures themselves. By becoming part of these structures, you can proceed to seek personal aggrandizement while at the same time contributing your talents to something you profess to find problematic. (A variation on this maneuver is to claim that you are going to do so for only a short time — as if it were a simple matter to leave the fast lane and get over to the exit ramp.) If you are audacious enough, you can even rationalize your participation as the most effective way to change the system. The more people who accept this reasoning and follow your example, the more secure is that system.

————————————

“Game” = Self-help
Self-help = Complete & Utter BS

You do the math.

Anybody know of an MRM/MRA site which is not fucked up by PUA/”Game” twits all over the place spouting patent nonsense?

The Spearhead certainly isn’t it.

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