Of SYMs and Red Herrings

by Elusive Wapiti on February 24, 2011

While I haven’t yet had the chance to read Kay Hymowitz’ latest book, Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men Into Boys, I did have the opportunity to read her article more or less plugging the book in the WSJ a few days ago.  As Hymowitz’ writings have been the subject of two posts of mine in the 2 1/2 years of blogging, I would be remiss were I not to weigh in on this latest effort. For sure, her scribblings have not gone unnoticed in the manosphere, a great many of whom have answered Hymowitz’ plaintive query “where have all the good men gone?” in their own idiosyncratic ways, a selection of which I sound-bite below:

  • Whiskey: women contribute to the child-man phenomena by choosing sexy men over responsible men.
  • Ferdinand Bardamu, who, in citing Spengler’s law of Universal Gender Parity, suggests that women and men deserve each other and that women had better be “womaning up” before they dare to utter the words “man up!”
  • MikeT: Today’s single young men (SYM)s are merely the mirror image reflection of Hymowitz’ SYFs…and that today’s culture simply does not reward mature behavior in men
  • The Damned Olde Man: Men rationally responded to women’s lib by liberating themselves as well from the male gender roles of provider and protector–and women don’t like it.
  • Dr. Helen: “After 45 years of being told they are pigs, sexist, and good for nothing, men have quit trying to please others, so they slap on a baseball cap and don’t talk much. And with good reason”
  • Captain Capitalism: “[A] life of bachelortude and singledom [is] more attractive an option (economically, socially and romantically) than marrying [women]“
  • Mike @ Crime and Federalism: Women have said for decades that they don’t need men. Now they have it, and they don’t like it.

As for me, if the WSJ article/advert Hymowitz penned is indicative of the main thrust of her book, Manning Up will likely be a book-length rehash of her earlier work writing cultural human-interest articles for the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal e-zine.  It was in this publication where she first profiled single young men–SYMs–two years ago, reducing the rational-slackerhood responses of young men to the new post-sex-rev reality with catchy quips like “child man in the promised land” and kvetching about the equalizing impact Game has had on the formerly fem-favorable dating scene.  And it is in the context of these writings that I find the controversy surrounding Manning Up to be interesting, for while she has previously chronicled the rise of the SYF–the Single Young Female and the custom-made-for-the-SYF New Girl Order–she has also continuously failed to publicly connect the dots between the SYFs and the SYMs who are the subject of her book.  Thus I suspect Manning Up will also fail to connect these dots, which is a shame because the two phenomena are not independent creatures, and I contend that one begat the other, namely that the SYF created the necessary conditions for the SYF’s counterpart, the SYM, to blossom and take root.

The text of Hymowitz’s WSJ article suggests that her new book still views the SYM through female socon glasses, lenses that grade the worth of men according to their ability and willingness to marry and financially support wives and children.  To wit:

For today’s pre-adults, “what you do” is almost synonymous with “who you are,” and starting a family is seldom part of the picture. Unlike adolescents, however, pre-adults don’t know what is supposed to come next. For them, marriage and parenthood come in many forms, or can be skipped altogether. In 1970, just 16% of Americans ages 25 to 29 had never been married; today that’s true of an astonishing 55% of the age group. In the U.S., the mean age at first marriage has been climbing toward 30.  What explains this puerile shallowness? I see it as an expression of our cultural uncertainty about the social role of men.  It’s been an almost universal rule of civilization that…boys had to pass a test. They needed to demonstrate courage, physical prowess or mastery of the necessary skills. The goal was to prove their competence as protectors and providers.

Single men [are] more troubled and less successful than men who deliberately choose to become husbands and fathers.

Generally speaking–and I do not think I am overreaching with this claim–it is usually only women who think in terms of gaining personal satisfaction or fulfillment through their work. Contrast this with men, whom often endure soul-killing jobs they don’t like, and whom generally resign themselves to shoveling the effin gravel rather than engage in urinary olympics about who has the most glam occupation. Men work because it pays the bills, because they don’t have any other alternative. Women work for different reasons: partially because it pays the bills until they can get married, but also because, after they don’t have to pay the bills anymore, their work becomes a hobby or even a status symbol.

But the more troubling message here is that Hymowitz clearly thinks that a key marker for a man’s manliness is his willingness to present himself as a suitable candidate for a three-way marriage (man, woman, State). But they don’t, thereby stymie-ing women’s ability to choose to work in self-fulfilling occupations, and therefore achieve self-actualization Nirvana for herself.  SYMs marriage avoiding behaviors–or failure to qualify for a marriage to one of those wonderful snowflakes–are at the heart of our culture’s plummeting marriage rates and refusal to reproduce itself. If only those latter-day Peter Pans would grow up and be worthy of a woman’s hypergamous marital ambition, already. Come on, you boys! Man up!

The problem with Hymowitz’ female-centric indictment of the SYM is three fold: First, she forgets that where women go, the culture follows.  I am on record as stating that, while men transmit civilization to the next generation, women are a civilization’s center of gravity. If one wants to change the direction of a culture, one somehow must convince the female half of the species to talk/walk/think/act differently. Thus, all this focus on how SYMs are shiftless losers who can’t get a date and are therefore the cause of the marriage dearth is a diversionary red herring, distracting from the real work at hand, which is readying girls and young adult women to be able to form enduring patriarchal marriages with men and therefore beget the next generation of civilization.

Second, women themselves are adrift, casting about for their moorings in a culture that decided two generations ago to discard all the old touchstones of what it means to be valuable contributing female member of society. Hymowitz herself proves useless in helping girls identify these markers that help girls make the transition to womanhood, claiming

It’s been an almost universal rule of civilization that girls became women simply by reaching physical maturity

This my friends is idiocy raised to the idiot power.  A girl becomes a woman merely by sprouting breast buds and pubic and axillary hair? A marker of maturity for her is shopping, travelling, and buying Jimmy Choo shoes? No test to pass, no criteria to discriminate between a girl and a woman, nothing to qualify them for membership in the club of fully formed adult females except the ability to consume or successfully gestate a baby?  Nothing to distinguish them from mere social parasites? No wonder many girls go on to become SYFs who dither away their youth in shallow materialistic consumerism and alpha/thug/jerk carouseling, only to run, not walk, to a sperm bank in their mid-30s to quell the thunderous ticking of their biological clocks, all because their beta male peers couldn’t measure up to their romantic fantasies. There is no expectation for them to do anything but. And what of the girls who do settle for Mr. Right Now? Well, some may find marital bliss, but a great many of them will find that Mr. Right Now becomes boring or contemptuous and desperately wanting a way out…and why not? She settled for him, rather than the Mr. Big she deserved.

If Hymowitz and the culture at large is going to demand that, to be counted as a man, that men should get a job and get married, individual women, to be counted as a woman, should become a wife, spawn some kids, and raise them.  Ouch, such high, fun-killing standards.  Whodathunkit that for a woman to demand that a man “man up!”, she must first “woman up” as well, with all that requires.*

* Womaning up includes getting and staying married, till death do you part, having at least 2.2 kids, having sex with your husband often, and shoveling the effing gravel that being a wife and mother entails. No divorce allowed, except for barbarous abuse and infidelity.

The third problem with Hymowitz’ indictment of the SYM is especially tragic because she almost touches upon it…and that is the culture’s near-universal disenfranchisement of the nice guy, the rock of a stable society, the non-glamorous beta male provider:

Today’s pre-adult male is like an actor in a drama in which he only knows what he shouldn’t say. He has to compete in a fierce job market, but he can’t act too bossy or self-confident. He should be sensitive but not paternalistic, smart but not cocky.  Today, with women moving ahead in our advanced economy, husbands and fathers are now optional, and the qualities of character men once needed to play their roles—fortitude, stoicism, courage, fidelity—are obsolete, even a little embarrassing. Women put up with him for a while, but then in fear and disgust either give up on any idea of a husband and kids or just go to a sperm bank and get the DNA without the troublesome man.

Hymowitz says next to nothing about the cultural conditions and social attitudes that have obliterated most of the reasons for men such as these to aspire to be husbands and a fathers, the two conditions that Hymowitz and her ilk would presumably use as indicators of male maturity.  In fact, Hymowitz would do well to study how women have teamed with the machinery of government to make husbands and fathers largely irrelevant.  Thus, having been declared a fish to a woman’s bicycle–and loudly told this since birth for the last 40 years–is it any wonder that men would eventually take women at their word and seek amusement and fulfillment elsewhere? Isn’t this what women wanted, after all? Control, suffrage, work, influence, responsibility? No?  Hmmm.

So, where indeed have all the good men gone? A good question. I suggest that Hymowitz start by encouraging her sisters to look in a mirror to begin to answer to this question.


About the author: EW is a well-trained monkey charged with operating heavier-than-air machinery. His interests outside of being an opinionated rabble-rouser are hunting, working out, motorcycling, spending time with his family, and flying. He is a father to three, a husband to one, and is a sometime contributor here at Spearhead. More of his intolerable drivel is available at the blog The Elusive Wapiti.

{ 80 comments… read them below or add one }

TFH February 24, 2011 at 15:21

Great article.

And let me add that this is why Game is important. It is one of the most important components of any opposition to misandry (and is indeed one of the Four Horsemen of Male Emancipation).

Game obliterates the economics of feminism. Women are only riding high today because through shaming, legal coercion, and ignorance, most men still are willing to work hard to produce 5-10 more output than they need to support just themselves. Even if we count a man and his children (but not the mother of those kids), most men could generate that output by working at significantly less than full capacity.

Game is kryptonite to the likes of Kay Hymowitz and just about any woman who feels entitled to the output of male labor.

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TFH February 24, 2011 at 15:24

The Spearhead had an article over a year ago of ‘Where Have All the Good Women Gone’?

Kay Hymowitz has written nothing that was not already pre-empted by that article.

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Rebel February 24, 2011 at 15:41

“I suggest that Hymowitz start by encouraging her sisters to look in a mirror to begin to answer to this question.”

They will never do that.

I think that women will remain set in their ways.

Even when they realize they are chasing the men away.

There is a continental drift underway. It’s massive.

P.S. Very good article, btw.

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SingleDad February 24, 2011 at 15:55

It would take 4 generations to undo the damage done to the female psyche by feminism. And even then, unless decades of legislation is undone, the state is unmarriagable.

I just don’t care.

Within a few years I’m emigrating to a country in which the women have not ruined themselves for financial gain.

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dragnet February 24, 2011 at 15:57

Excellent post.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you evaluate men and our actions through a gynocentric lens, then you will very often be frustrated or confused. However if you are willing to start with the premise that men are rational and self-interested, and that the interests of men and women are often at cross-purposes then your enlightenment on these matters is not far off.

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fmz February 24, 2011 at 16:03

The mra and wra blogs have both been reacting against her article. Both taking it a personal slight. She’s either onto something or knows how to push buttons and sell books or a bit of both.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 33
TFH February 24, 2011 at 16:06

I suggest that Hymowitz start by encouraging her sisters to look in a mirror to begin to answer to this question.

Nope. Women simply don’t understand cause and effect very well.

Also, a lot of this discussion still demonstrates insufficient understanding of what a ‘shit test’ (what I call a Beta Test) is.

It is in women’s nature to test men. The problem is, given voting rights, their tests become to powerful and too pervasive, and unpassable to most men.

If two children are wrestling with each other, that is what kids do. If one is magically endowed with 10 times normal strength, and he accidentally kills the other boy as a result, the kid might say “why were you so weak?”

That is what is happening here, with the natural tendency of women to test, test, test men, combined with the unnatural catalyst of voting rights, to make the tests too powerful to pass.

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TFH February 24, 2011 at 16:09

However if you are willing to start with the premise that men are rational and self-interested,

Actually, if men were more self-interested, misandry would never have gotten this far.

The current state of affairs is largely the outcome of men being far more concerned about the well-being of women, than women are capable of being towards men. That the more selfish/caddish men are more attractive to women does not help matters on a macro scale.

If both men and women were both equally benevolent (or equally selfish), this imbalance would be impossible.

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Keyster February 24, 2011 at 16:11

All the mass media messaging in the world will never truly give a woman fortitude, stoicism, courage or fidelity. It’s the pretending that they’re as good as men that has reached a tipping point. The truth always rises up through the propaganda eventually. This is that time.

Women are not courageous super-heroes that have no use for men.
They just like to believe they are.

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Uncle Elmer February 24, 2011 at 16:42

I wrote this on her blog :

Kay, your brilliant economic analysis misses one key factor : only men create and take risks. Women can only serve as functionaries in the structures that men create. When an organization becomes feminized, all energy goes towards comfort and security for women, leading to ossification and death.

As for the question “Where Have All the Good Men Gone?” : http://www.vietnamcupid.com is one destination. Worked for me.

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NWOslave February 24, 2011 at 16:50

Where have all the good men gone? This is the question the modern day woman asks as she looks in the mirror. Since the modern woman view’s men as a type of tool, the better question is what can this tool do for me?

Is he a financial tool, a pleasure tool, an excitement tool, a security tool, an emotional support tool, a plumber tool, a carpenter tool, a house cleaning tool, a broken but still useful financial tool?

In order to “man up,” for the modern woman you need to be the latest swiss army multipurpose tool with all the bell’s and whistle’s.

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universe February 24, 2011 at 16:53

Talk about brazen, huh? And in full public view, yet.
One book written as a total disparagement of the junior up-and-comers of one sex. Rubber stamped into main stream publication by those occupying the safe confines of publishing houses who basically agree with the author’s premise. And about to be purchased en masse’, without even so much as blinking an eye, by today’s female reading class. The modern day equivilent of self absorbed consumers of the female focussed fantasy writers of the 19th century.

As participants of men’s blogs we’ve come to guiltlessly examine the behaviors of contemporary females. It has become commonly noticed that acrid complaining with no recourse save for more complaining has become recognized as the hallmark of popular modern femaleness. But, worse than that, this yet to be consequential bitching has propelled quite a nice financially reaping industry for its writing participants and an exclusive sepatist club for its consumers.
I ask any unthinking supporter of feminism lurking in the shadows on this site to cite a commercially successful reference that equally, cavalierly, and unabashedly describes females in an equal but otherly directed measure.

Countless others similar in nature to the author of, “Manning Up…” are going to receive their due, even though they won’t recognize it as such. The only good I can get from the marketing of this book is that those who partake in its premise will be publicly recognized. That is who the traitorous enemy will be.

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zed February 24, 2011 at 17:00

She’s either onto something or knows how to push buttons and sell books

The second option. She is just rehashing a subject which has been done to death – by everyone from Devvy Kidd who wrote an article of almost exactly the same title back in 2002, to Karen DeCoster, to Lionel Tiger, to Guy Garcia. “Aren’t men awful” books will always have a ready market, and they never break new ground, but just plow the worn out ruts of the same old tired subjects over and over – much like an issue of Cosmo, or Harlequin romance novel, or episode of Oprah or Dr. Phil.

Patricia Cayo Sexton did it way back in 1969 – before most commenters here and even the site owner were born – with “The Feminized Male: Classrooms, White Collars, and the Decline of Manliness.” But, the prize for creative co-opting of men’s ideas and sheer snottiness probably goes to June Stephenson for “Men Are Not Cost Effective.”

It’s just one more shit test, and men all over the blogosphere fell for it, like they always do. She is just one more attention whore who knows that insulting men is one of the absolute best ways in the world to get their attention.

Any fool who pays money to read her book and supports her attention whoring should be taken out behind the woodshed by other men and beaten with sticks.

The dialogue really should go something like this –
Kay H: “Men, MAN UP!!”
Men: “No. Now go away.”

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Survivorman February 24, 2011 at 17:01

As recent weeks and months have passed, I have seen more and more of these “Where Have all the Good Men Gone” articles in the MSM by 40 to 50-ish y.o. single women.

We may indeed be at (or near) a tipping point.

And as always, E.W. – excellent article. You really have a talent for cutting straight to the bone, in a very clear and concise manner.

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Anonymous Protagonist February 24, 2011 at 17:12

The rationalization hamster will never go away.

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Buck Swamp February 24, 2011 at 17:17

This is an interesting article, and I agree with a lot of what you write, but this article seems to be based upon an assumption that I think is flatly wrong: that the old system was good for both men and women, but in the last forty years women screwed it up, and women need to change back, so that all of us can go back to the way it was.

Ain’t gonna happen.

The truth is that the old economic system of love and marriage that existed up until the 1970′s was great for women, but most men were actually little more than pack animals for their wives and families, at least when they weren’t busy being cannon fodder for the state. I’m old enough to remember the way it was during Viet Nam, and I also knew a lot of WWII veterans who were in their prime back then, and most men didn’t like their role in society very much even back then. But they were shamed by religion, society and western culture into ‘accepting it like a man’.

But in the 70′s feminism became the driving force of western culture, and over time the incentive for men to continue to play the game was gradually eroded. Eventually we got to where we are today, where suddenly you have large numbers of men and boys saying: “To hell with it!”

Now that a lot of men are opting out of a game that they know is rigged against them, some of them are finding out that they really enjoy their new-found freedom. And a lot of them ain’t coming back. So whatever happens to western culture in the next twenty years, I very much doubt that 2030 will look anything like 1970.

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Uncle Elmer February 24, 2011 at 17:21

Great essay by the way, I like it. Coming from your Uncle Elmer that’s a big compliment.

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Elusive Wapiti February 24, 2011 at 17:51

Thanks all for your time in reading this article. I thought Zed’s point below particularly deserved some further explication:

It’s just one more shit test, and men all over the blogosphere fell for it, like they always do.

Yes but. While it may seem like we fellows have fallen again for a woman’s fitness-testing and controversy-stirring in order to generate buzz for her book, in actuality, rather than puffing up Hymowitz’ ego with our collective fisking of her missive, we are instead schooling our brothers on the true nature of the problem facing our culture and what must be done to fix it.

Another thing to be happy about: the manosphere’s near-universal negative reaction (led by eloquent MRAs like Jay Hammers and Novaseeker) to Hymowitz’ first and second columns was published in the comment section to the WSJ.

The message is getting out, fellas. We’re breaking out of the manosphere ghetto, and into the mainstream.

TFH February 24, 2011 at 17:55

The message is getting out, fellas. We’re breaking out of the manosphere ghetto, and into the mainstream.

And posting flyers is an easy way to reach a large number of men.

It is already working, as we all can see.

Get out there and post flyers!! We can move things into the steep part of the curve in a matter of months if we post flyers.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 24, 2011 at 18:04

Dr. Helen: “After 45 years of being told they are pigs, sexist, and good for nothing, men have quit trying to please others, so they slap on a baseball cap and don’t talk much. And with good reason”

I am with Dr Helen. Tonight? (Its 3am here now). I worked to about 10pm. I came home and had a nice pizza and some BRILLIANT bordeaux. Still having it actually. I talked to some friends on the web. I sent Norman Scarth a note to tell him he got 80 views in 36 hours and to tell him how privileged I am to know him.

I got banned of MGTOW forums…not sure why yet….watched some Carlos Santana on DVD…and am now listening to one of his GREAT songs ‘The Calling’. I am listening on my i-River player which makes apples i-pods sound like the crap they really are.

I have had a really, really good night. Guess what? No woman was involved. I love women. I really do. I really wish I could have had a woman as my help-mate for my whole life. But they don’t want that any more. So I am more than happy living along…..wow….the guitar riffs on ‘The Calling’ are really good….hard to concentrate…..

I am sick of women……even the perfect ones…..listening to great music and drinking great wine is better…. :-) I know…I am a ‘loser’…I am a ‘woman-hater’….I have a small dick and I can’t get laid. I am stupid. I am repulsive. I am an arsehole….I am ‘incapable of managing relationship’….um….I hate my mother. My father failed me. Did I miss anything? I am sure the wimminz will think of some insult they would like to throw at me…

In the meantime. I am happy as a pig in mud. :-)

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 24, 2011 at 18:06

TFH February 24, 2011 at 17:55
Yep..TFH….men like you and many others are breaking the news to the young guys….marriage sucks…don’t do it…LOL!!

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TDOM February 24, 2011 at 18:16

Mnay thanks to EW and Welmer for the plug. It’s always good for the ego to know that someone actually reads my rambling drivel.

@Zed
Aye, aye Cap’n. I have been stripped of my shirt, lashed to the yardarm, and am awaiting the cat o’ nine tails.

TDOM

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 24, 2011 at 18:18

TFH February 24, 2011 at 15:21
Game obliterates the economics of feminism. Women are only riding high today because through shaming, legal coercion, and ignorance, most men still are willing to work hard to produce 5-10 more output than they need to support just themselves.

Not just game TFH. It is plain economics. I used to work 2,000-2,500 hours a year to pay for ‘princess and kids’. And in my last year married I made about EUR220K. This included 47 days without a day off….and quite a few of those days being ’36 hour days’. I was working on a deal in germany and a deal in Russia as well as working on software development for my software.

Of course….the non-working princess (www.jenninolan.com) claimed I was ‘neglecting my family’….you know…by paying the bills for chemo for HER son, paying the rent, paying the school fees, paying for food. That’s called ‘neglect’ now. Glad she explained that to me.

Now. I can LIVE on 300 hours of work a year IF I DO NOT SELL ANY SOFTWARE. I am able to do so much work for OTHER MEN because I am able to earn my keep so quickly. But…alas…seems like other men don’t want the contribution. If I sell some software? Each sale pays for a year of living expenses. My colleagues and I are working on developing our software to the point we can sell out and go live on a beach. I will likely live in the Ukraine if we do this.

Men who have some skills can live VERY WELL just as long as they are NOT paying for a bunch of leeches as well. Oh…yes…I know…I am a terrible man for calling my wife a leech…after all the wonderful things she did for me…like refuse to feed me when I had slipped disks or put me down when I had a hole in my spinal column.

Wow. I SO MISS BEING MARRIED!! LOL!!

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Szebran February 24, 2011 at 18:19

“Single men [are] more troubled and less successful than men who deliberately choose to become husbands and fathers.”

This statement is a farce and shows she is completely clueless. I would say today single men are less troubled than those who have become husbands simply because of the existence of many selfish wives as well as paternity fraud laws. The single man can easily dump a selfish GF & avoid paternity fraud with barely any cost. For husbands, the cost of avoiding these traps can be quite high. Single men can concentrate on their life’s goals. Married men have more difficulty today doing this since they are expected to support the wife’s career and leisure activities but get little or no support in return.

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tom47 February 24, 2011 at 18:26

The White Knight mentality of defending the Kingdom and providing for the Fair Maiden as a definition of our identity is the basic source of all the problems we discuss here. Rejecting this identity is the means of achieving our own “liberation”. The” men are scum” campaign has destroyed the junk rewards of honor and respect that reinforced the system and now there’s no perceivable reason to be a part of it. If many men appear to be drifting aimlessly it’s because they are acting unconsciously and without intention, but they are moving in the right direction. This is not a problem to be solved but a movement to be encouraged through consciousness raising and education. Because the subjugation of men to the interests of the Kingdom and the Fair Maiden is the foundation of social order, resistance will be fierce, particularly by those who either identify with or profit from the order.
Encouraging dissent, “no justice no peace” and non compliance, “hell no we won’t go”, are two important strategies. So is simply sitting on our asses and enjoying ourselves. The squeals of upset women at our failure to “man up” is just one of the rewards of our efforts or rather non efforts.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 24, 2011 at 18:38

Single men [are] more troubled and less successful than men who deliberately choose to become husbands and fathers.

EW…please warn us guys drinking bordaux before you include such stupid statements from wimminz in your fantastic writing. Now I have red wine all over my keyboard from laughing my arse out from this statement.

@YOUNG MEN.

Not 1 in 10,000 me are as ‘successful’ as I was as a married man who chose to be a husband and father. And if you follow my footsteps into THAT slaughterhouse with all I have published? Well you would be a f***ing idiot and you would deserve the misery and slavery that awaits you.

I have ‘been there and done that and got the T-shit and stubby holder’. No-one disputes that I was one of the best husbands and fathers around…no-one. NOT EVER MY STEP SON or FATHER IN LAW.

Guess what? Marriage sucks. Even when it’s GOOD it sucks.

I have not told you all….but my ex, her father, her son, and my psycho ex brother in law ALL know I am posting here in my own name. I’ve sent them the links. They are PISSED it would seem. But unlike my ex brother in laws bully boy tactics of calling the cops to shut down the Freeman Australia site which he then psychotically blamed on me…like a woman….They realise trying to shut down the spearhead is an entirely different prospect. Especially when I link to my own site for anything controversial.

Young men. Don’t get married. I did it. It’s NOT worth it in the english speaking world. It’s a trap. It’s slavery. I was there for 18 years. And I have been free for 3 years.

I can assure you. Freedom is better.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 24, 2011 at 18:56

SingleDad February 24, 2011 at 15:55
It would take 4 generations to undo the damage done to the female psyche by feminism.

I disagree. It has BEEN 5 generations now in Russia and the Ukraine (1917).

The men show NO sign of forgetting they were betrayed by their women. They act accordingly.

The way I see it. Once guys like you and me pound into the young mens heads just how much women HATE them and how much they lie to them? It will take TEN generations or more to allow women back in from the cold. And even THEN it will only be as chattel property.

You guys here don’t seem to ‘get it’ yet. Maybe Welmer should commission some articles from Russian or Ukrainian men as to what they think of women and how they treat them. If you men want to know what fate is going to befall the wimminz…..read about these places.

As one guy I know said. Men in Russia are drunks, gansters, thugs, robbers and criminals, and they die young. This is because it beats the hell out of being ‘married with children’. My only fav#1 complained that ‘even though a married man with two children get exempted from military servive and get their own apartment they will NOT marry’…. (Translation. Russian men would rather do national service and risk the mujarhadeen in Afghanistan and PAY for their own apartment in preference to marrying a russian woman and having kids with her)

A man who will remain nameless said to me “my retirement plan is a smith and wesson”. My retirement plan is similar. Only I will balance any books that are not in balance at that time. And I suggest all other right thinking men do the same. Men are noble and honourable beings. Much more so than women of today.

My fav#4 (czech) told me her mother was a ‘witch’. She told me her she asked her father why he married such a witch. His response was “she was not like that before you children arrived”. His wife refused to care for him properly when he was a dying man. He is dead now. My fav#4 really, really despises her mother for how she treated my fav#4s father in his dying days.

@Young men. This is what awaits for you if you are stupid enough to marry. You marry after men like all of us have warned you off it so many times?

You deserve your misery.

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zed February 24, 2011 at 19:01

Aye, aye Cap’n. I have been stripped of my shirt, lashed to the yardarm, and am awaiting the cat o’ nine tails.

Ah, you know what to say to a masochist when he says “beat me”, right?

The same thing you say to one of today’s slags who says “OK, now I’m ready to get married.”

“No.” ;)

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 24, 2011 at 19:03

zed February 24, 2011 at 17:00
The second option. She is just rehashing a subject which has been done to death

Zed speaketh the righteous truth again. There is no end of women who will spend money on poison that says “all men are evil and all women are saints”.

One need look no further than Ohp-RAH and Duck-tape PILL to see that.

Indeed. I think in the MRM area we should call them Pho-RAH and Duck-tape PILL. All MRMS will know who we mean.

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Anonymous Reader February 24, 2011 at 19:10

Not sure that we are falling for the shit test, zed. It isn’t as if men are supplicating Kay Hymowitz with “Please, please, tell us what to do”, or “please, don’t be angry with us”, or other beta / omega blunders. Nope, not happening.

The response I see ranges from “Lady, you are ignorant, and here is why“, to “are you kidding?” to “if you keep doing this, you won’t like the results, and here’s why” to “piss off” and on to “meh”. Telling a shit tester that her tests are not acceptable, and why they are not acceptable, may be a bit too beta for you, I concede. But it is a kind of response to a shit test that is both rational, and logical, and a warning. The well of patience is not bottomless. And that is the real message Hymowitz is getting sent to her, although it appears she is totally unable to receive it.

Try to look at it this way: the next one of these books that comes along will get more “piss off” and “meh”, and less “you are ignorant”. The one after that? More of the same. At some point of diminishing returns, some woman will publish yet another one of these things, and the reaction from men will be mostly terse anger, or bored yawn, probably both. And then there will be questions asked — along the lines of “why won’t you pay attention to us?” to which the answer will be, “We told you so”, followed by “Now, go away”.

And then, what? That will be interesting to see…

It takes a while to get to your state of zed, zed. Don’t be so impatient, especially with the younger ones. They’re getting there, maybe faster than some of the rest of us did.

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King Alfred February 24, 2011 at 19:17

Quote: “So, where indeed have all the good men gone? A good question. I suggest that Hymowitz start by encouraging her sisters to look in a mirror to begin to answer to this question.”

If only they would… But, as others have said, introspection is not in their vocabulary.

Great article, great comments. Thank you!

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The Caliph February 24, 2011 at 19:31

@Anonymous Reader February 24, 2011 at 19:10

The response I see ranges from “Lady, you are ignorant, and here is why“, to “are you kidding?” to “if you keep doing this, you won’t like the results, and here’s why” to “piss off” and on to “meh”.

“Meh” is that part i wish most men would arrive at. Folks still think hate is the deadliest emotion, it may be just as strong as love, but IMO Indifference is the deadliest emotion.

My reponse to Kay Hymowitz? Meh

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Mark Trueblood February 24, 2011 at 19:34

Nowhere in the article does Hymowitz show even a shred of concern for why men are falling behind. Nope, her only issue is our attributes as a status symbol for women. Nor does she show any curiosity as to why upwardly mobile young men refuse to be married. Were I her, I would take a hard look at why XBox 360 is more compelling to men than a steady relationship with a modern woman. But that would require Hymowitz to look in the mirror. An action which no doubt fills her with fear and loathing.

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zed February 24, 2011 at 19:48

It takes a while to get to your state of zed, zed. Don’t be so impatient,

I would be slacking on my job as wingman and coach if I didn’t point out to a guy when he had been hooked by a neg and his hamster was going like it was having an epileptic fit.

If she and her publisher make money on this book, they will put out another one. If that one makes money, they will put out another one after that.

This is just another type of emotional porn for women. It makes them all tingly in anticipation of all the attention they are going to get from it.

Would men with options waste one second of their lives responding to a woman who treated them this way in real life?

On her best day she has a face that reminds me a mule my uncle used to own, and for a couple of days she has gotten more attention that Kim Kardashian.

One thing is for sure – she has Game.

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Anonymous February 24, 2011 at 20:08

I noticed that WSJ article last night, read it, and read many of the comments. Most of the comments seemed to be from men who were critical of the gender relations today, basically the men’s rights perspective if you want to call it that.

First of all I’m sick of women writing these articles about men’s issues. A woman, especially a professional career white woman in New York City, cannot possibly understand what is really going on with men and be impartial about it. A man should write about it, preferably a young man. Because a young man is going to know what is going on, he’s going to see what is going on in his generation, and he’s going to be better able to understand the dynamics.

I have come to the decision recently that I most likely don’t ever want to get married or have kids. I’m in my late 20s. I don’t even want a girlfriend. They are too much trouble. False rape accusations, no-fault divorce, there are too many drawbacks. Why invest time, money, emotions, energy, thoughts, planning, etc. into courting a woman, dating, getting married, having kids, buying a house, etc. only to have her divorce you 10 years later when she watches “eat pray love” and decides to leave. You can’t stop it. She can just leave. And take your kids, half or more of your assets, and destroy everything that you planned and built with her. THAT’S BULLSH#T. Why even go into it knowing this is LIKELY to happen, based on the statistics. It’s not a theory, it’s a statistical LIKELIHOOD. I can read the statistics on divorce and what happens in court. So marriage is out.

Then there are kids. I used to want kids. But now I just don’t think it matters. There are already over 6 billion people on earth. My genes are not that important to reproduce. People are reproducing their genes all the time, and in the future with genetic engineering human beings will be able to be genetically modified. So even if I thought my genes were superior and wanted to add them to the gene pool, it doesn’t matter because 100 years from now superior genes will be commonplace due to genetic engineering. The only important thing is that the human race doesn’t die out, and we have never had this many people on earth, so the human race clearly isn’t dying out. I don’t want to be a single father. If I’m single, I just want to be alone.

What about dating? Why? So she can have consensual sex with you and a few days later file a false rape claim and destroy your life? So she can give you oral sex and spit the semen in a cup, then later put the semen in her vagina, get pregnant, then put you on child support payments for the next 18 years? These things happen. You can’t trust women in relationships. And I definitely don’t want to live with a woman. Why? So she can nag me all the time and force me to do things that I don’t want to do? So she can be all up in my space? I would rather live alone, where I am free to do what I want.

I don’t need a woman for anything. Women think that sex with them is something that men can’t live without. Not really. It’s just a piece of flesh wrapped around your d#ck. It feels good but not great. My hand feels better sometimes and pornography is available. Plus you don’t get diseases from your hand. You don’t get false rape claims from your hand. You don’t get put on 18 years of debt payments from your hand.

If you REALLY need sex with a woman, there are legal and illegal prostitutes available for that kind of release or experience. It’s like any other service in the service economy, not a mind f#ck relationship where someone is trying to game you.

Now here’s where it all starts breaking down. If you are a young man and you realize that you don’t want to get married, don’t want kids, and don’t want a girlfriend, all for perfectly logical, rational reasons primarily related to how the legal system and the larger society treats men and what the likely outcomes of these relationships are, what do you do with your life? That’s where I think it starts breaking down. Because once you realize that you don’t want those things, there’s really no point to do anything in particular with your life. I’m not saying life has no meaning, I’m saying it has no overarching, singular meaning like it does when you dedicate your life to marriage, family, and children.

You just do what you want.

I think the mistake of all these observers is to ascribe some type of meaning, in most cases a bad meaning, to this resultant behavior. This is a mistake. At this point, when the man realizes marriage and family is not something that he wants, the meaning of what he does is not important. He’s just going to do what he wants. If he likes drinking beer and playing video games, that’s what he’s going to do. If he likes composing music and writing poetry, that’s what he’s going to do. The only meaning is going to be the desire to avoid marriage, children, and relationships with women. That becomes the meaning of life. Avoiding you. Avoiding c##nts like Kay Hymenwitz.

Yeah if enough men do this, the whole society will crumble. There will be no stable children and families. But they will keep saying that this is all about selfish, child-like men wanting to avoid responsibility. That’s what they will say. Because they can’t acknowledge the reality that this about how the society, women, and the legal system treats men in relationships. This is about men reacting to a society that puts men in legal and moral straitjackets when they get married or have relationships with women. Men are just saying, I’m not doing this, it’s NOT WORTH IT.

I don’t care if women are empowered. They think we don’t like “empowered women”. I don’t give a flying f#ck about empowered women. I don’t fear empowered women. I fear putting my own energy, my own emotions, my own vulnerabilities, my own money, my own planning, into you, into my life with you, building a life around you, and having you rip my life apart because you watched “eat pray love”. That’s what I fear.

And I’m not going to do it.

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Alcuin February 24, 2011 at 20:15

Since women are reactive and emotional rather than rational and thoughtful, they will continue to blame others, particularly men and “patriarchy”, for their failings. That is why feminism keeps on swinging. If women looked at feminism with a critical eye, which would demand a heavy dose of critical self-awareness, they would drop it in a minute.

Because government finances are so bad, and women’s-oriented programs can no longer be funded as before, women must look for other ways to encage men. The government can more easily pass legislation than it can find the money for more handouts, so rape and domestic violence laws will continue to get nastier.

As feminism is starved of government funding, women might feel like the cornered rat, and become even more extreme.

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cracker February 24, 2011 at 20:22

Another recent release: Spousonomics: Using Economics to Master Love, Marriage, and Dirty Dishes

Two things:
1. Both authors are women.
2. The first review in the “Praise for Spousonomics” section of Amazon is from Elizabeth Gilbert (everyone’s favorite author of such trash as “Eat, Pray, Love”)

Put those two things together, and what you have is a book that isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

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Keyster February 24, 2011 at 20:34

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #1,486 in Books

Hardly selling like hot cakes.
Man bashing is so 20th century.
She really missed the mark.

Title of my new book…
Woman Down: Why Men are Ignoring Women

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TDOM February 24, 2011 at 20:36

@ Zed
“No.”

Damn. I haven’t had a good flogging since… well, not in this lifetime.

TDOM

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Denis February 24, 2011 at 21:03

distracting from the real work at hand, which is readying girls and young adult women to be able to form enduring patriarchal marriages with men and therefore beget the next generation of civilization.

I was with you until there, can’t teach them to be breeders in an advanced civilization where house wife is a boring and easy work. You can’t even tell them to get their butts off the couch and shovel the sidewalk or mow the lawn. She can do anything she wants and no man can tell her what to do. She’ll throw you out of the house.

That traditional arrangement works well in poor agrarian societies where families need each other, but not in socialist countries.
There are very few large families, many labor saving devices and distractions. Women need to woman-up and act like equals, instead of entitled princesses.

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Rebel February 24, 2011 at 21:39

@Singledad:
“Within a few years I’m emigrating to a country in which the women have not ruined themselves for financial gain.”

I have read somewhere that many men in their forties or later are leaving the U.S. and become expats.
I had read that the numbers ran around 2-3 million men a year. I wonder if there is any truth to that. The numbers look very big. (2% of ttl male population per year).

If that is true, then we know the answer to the question “Where have they gone?”.

That doesn’t bode too well for the future of a country.
Are women chasing men away? America is now a nation of women, it was said: does that mean that men are excess baggage?

Do women understand the situation they find themselves in?
Do they know they will have to compete with Russian and East European women and try to find a husband on the net?
They, too, will eventually become mail-order brides, if that.

They will need all the luck they can muster with their horrible reputation.

Methinks America may become not the land of women but the land of spinsters. What a bright future indeed. Feminism has been a real success, eh?

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Factory February 24, 2011 at 21:46

I like Zed’s approach. It’s…pithy.

Feminist: “Man Up!”
MRA: “No. Now go away.”

It could be a t-shirt. And it gets the whole message across. Perfect.

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SingleDad February 24, 2011 at 22:35

And I’ll be spending my retirement money outside the US, just to starve the feminist entitlement machine.

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CM February 24, 2011 at 22:38

Well men dont come from women – boys do. Men come from the absense of women by finding themselves connected to the heavenly father and happy beyond the feminine support. Didnt many (if not all) ancient tribal rites of manhood involve periods of absence from women or the whole tribe to test for survivability?

Too many girls these days. No women, even old mothers act like sassy girls. No dignity, no modesty, just a loud mouth and a deragratory tone. And feminism took it away from them! Seems like if it was about the feminine it would at least encourage feminine virtues. But no apparently all virtue comes from man who follow God.

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CM February 24, 2011 at 22:45

How about:

Feminist: “Man Up!”
MRA: “But wouldn’t that make me a rapist?.”

Or

Feminist: “Man Up!”
MRA: “I thought feminists say gender is just a social construct…”

Or

Feminist: “Man Up!”
MRA: “My Lady you wouldnt know one if you got a sex change”

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Rick James February 24, 2011 at 23:23

The following was written by Francis Parker Yockey…in the 1940s!!!

“American family life has been thoroughly disintegrated by the Culture-distorting regime. In the usual American home, the parents actually have less authority than the children. The schools enforce no discipline, nor do the churches. The function of forming the minds of the young has been abdicated by all in favor of the cinema.

Marriage in America has been replaced by Divorce. This is said with no paradoxical intent. In the large cities, statistics show that one of every two marriages ends in divorce. Taking the country as a whole, the figure is one in three. This situation can no longer be described as Marriage, since the essence of Marriage is its permanence. The divorce trade is a large business upon which lawyers, private detectives and other charlatans thrive, and from which the spiritual standards of the nation suffer, as reflected in the emotionally indifferent attitude of American children.

The Western erotic, grounded in the chivalry of Gothic times, with the concomitant honor-imperative of the centuries of Western history, has been driven out. The ideal of Wedekind, the Culture-distorter who preached compulsory Bohemianism in Europe around the turn of the 20th century, has been realized by the Culture-distorting regime in America. Inverted Puritanism has arisen. In this new feeling, the Puritan outlook is retained in sexual matters only to scoff at it in the cinema and in literature. Baudelaire’s thesis “In evil only lies bliss” has been taken over by the distorter, and has resulted in the progressive disintegration of American morality in all spheres. In this effort, jazz music is a useful appurtenance, for this primitive beating is nothing but the expression of lust in the world of sound, a world which is capable of expressing all human emotions, both higher and lower.

A part of this general perversion is the physical-youth-mania that has been spread abroad in America. Both men and women, but especially the latter are inwardly obsessed with the idea of remaining physically young in appearance. Advertising plays upon these fears and commercializes them. The “girl” is the ideal feminine type. The mature woman aspires to be a girl, but not vice versa. A “girl” cult has come into existence, which, together with cinema, revue, jazz, divorce, disintegration of the family, and uniformity, serves the vast purpose of destroying the national feelings of the American.”

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JFP February 25, 2011 at 00:35

Not surprising Ms. Whinyowitz hasn’t learned from her last butt kicking. As said by others, she’s an attention whore selling books. I disagree that its a “neg” or shit test failure. You have that much more blowback this time and more men see that they aren’t alone on such a forum as the wall street journal.

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Traveller February 25, 2011 at 00:53

With all those articles, what does remain to say?

I suspect the WSJ (Women Street Journal) is really in a bad shape, they are publishing crap just to attract readers, like the Amy Chua’s Chinese mothers are superior, or the demise of the desktop computer.

As they are unable to understand it is backfiring, it is helping many men to see the truth. The cost of a familiy is too much for men and there is less and less respect for their work, the so called girl power is only parasitic government occupation with affirmative action, along as their outnumbering degrees.

Thumbs up for the “urinary olympics” expression. :)

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Skadi February 25, 2011 at 01:10

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Gendeau February 25, 2011 at 01:36

Anonymous February 24, 2011 at 20:08

Great post. An excellent summary of many men’s chain of thought.

Pick a name, any name, and keep writing, please

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KARMA MRA MGTOW February 25, 2011 at 02:33

Guys Two links from the great Tom Leykis

Author Kay Hymowitz will now answer your questions, about her article detailing the immaturity of modern men.

Audio

And a more recent post on this latest book below.

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KARMA MRA MGTOW February 25, 2011 at 02:37

Tom Leykis interview with Kay Hymowitz on an previous article.

Audio below.

http://audio.myprops.org/971/887004.mp3

More of the great Tom Leykis on this Topic.

http://www.leykis101.com/news-for-guys/where-have-the-good-men-gone

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Charlie February 25, 2011 at 02:52

Does this pathetic child-woman ever stop whining?

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 04:20

KARMA MRA MGTOW February 25, 2011 at 02:37

On listening to the interview with Tom and how much this woman is bitching about how men don’t want to get married any more.

Um….does she NOT remember that feminists carried placards saying:

“Abolish slavery. Don’t marry”.

Now the men are doing exactly what the women demanded they are ‘upset’. LOL!!

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 04:21

Skadi February 25, 2011 at 01:10
Not all Russian men are like that.

LOL!! A woman trying on Not All Men Are Like That!

I could not make this shit up.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 04:35

KARMA MRA MGTOW February 25, 2011 at 02:37

Wow…Tom really OWNS that bitch! LOL!! It’s a real good listen.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 04:53

Eyeball warning…..if you are eating or drinking coffee….WAIT until you click this.

http://www.leykis101.com/sites/default/files/Hymowitz.jpg

THIS woman thinks she can berate men about ‘man-up’!! LOL!!

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zimmy February 25, 2011 at 04:59

Elusive Wapiti: “………..a three-way marriage (man, woman, State)”
————————————————————-

That’s not the kind of 3-way I want, although I don’t know which one I want to eliminate from my life. Is it the modern woman or the Big Sister state. Perhaps both.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 05:11

And imagine what it would be like being married to THIS bitch. This article is worthy of wide exposure in MRM as to what men can look forward to in being married.

Don’t miss the last bit.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24206284

And while I recognize that gender stereotypes are risky, in my experience husbands are a lot like children. They will get away with whatever they can get away with. When you put your foot down and make it clear that you won’t take no for an answer, somehow the kids’ rooms get cleaned, the groceries bought, the laundry folded. It really does work, I promise.

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Corinthiar February 25, 2011 at 05:13

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Robert February 25, 2011 at 05:19

OT; some of you might find this interesting. Fidelbogen @ The Counter-feminist discovered it and posted the link.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/prolenc/encyc129.htm

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Pierce Harlan February 25, 2011 at 06:38

EW is one of the shining lights in this movement.

As for the article he discusses, well, it’s just another in an endless cavalcade of Chicken Little pieces written by female features writers who posit, wallow in, and ultimately celebrate (even when they pretend they don’t) the purported death of traditional masculinity in order to “empower” their female readership utterly fascinated with the topic.

I don’t care that this woman likely doesn’t consider herself a feminist, hers is a decidedly feminist piece. It is, after all, the mission of feminism to unshackle women so they can express their femininity in whatever manner they desire, and to shackle men so that they can express their masculinity only in the manner feminists approve.

The boys are in trouble, these enlightened women cluck their tongues, because more young men are acting in ways women don’t approve; meaning, they are not “good provider” — for women and their children — material.

Reverse the genders and see if young women give a flying f*ck whether some middle-aged male features writer approves of their chooses. He’d be accused of misogyny if he even questioned it. Yet, somehow young men (who, by the way, will avoid reading her book like the plague) are supposed to care. It’s written for women who secretly relish the decline of maleness.

The double-standards are breathtaking. Women harshly brand young men hesitant about marriage as commitment-phobes; when those same women later end their marriages because they aren’t feeling “fulfilled,” their own “commitment” is not at all pertinent to the issue.

Likewise, a woman who tells her fiance that she wants to take time off from work when they have children is called a normal woman; a man who tells his fiance he wants to take time off from work when they have children is called an ex-fiance.

Men either fit into the female-constructed masculinity box or they are slammed as irresponsible man-children.

Never mind that these women writers give the boys’ fashion and make-up obsessed female counterparts a free pass — shopping for shoes, luxuriating in the drunken “hook up” culture, and going on girls’ nights out at male revues is somehow more “grown up” than playing video games.

You want to generalize, ladies? Alright, let’s generalize. The following is a more accurate generalization. Almost are all of these “where have the men gone” pieces are written by women who majored in English writing or similar subjects, and who don’t really have a useful skill that can help anybody. Honestly. I personally know at least four people who have written for major daily papers and are now under-employed, because people who can write for major dailies are dime a dozen and there’s no future in it. Young women tend to gravitate toward college degrees that signify they have amorphous, but not especially useful, skills. Most of them write better than their male counterparts — and that, and 25 cents, will buy them a New York Post (is it STILL 25 cents?).

Young men, on the other hand, gravitate toward useful skills. From advanced engineering to computer science to knowing how to fix your car or change your water heater. For all the talk about how women don’t need men, the fact is they’d die without them, and quickly, too.

Do you think even one or two of those cackling hens sitting in cublicles ripping on young men will admit that when their car breaks down on a lonely highway on a cold winter’s night, they’re happy there’s a GUY who knows how to fix it even if he can’t spell “misogyny”? And, yeah, let’s be honest, it’s almost always a guy.

And we won’t even get into the firefighters, the young men on the front lines who have a near monopoly on heroism in war, the young men who jump over seats on airplanes to stop terrorists only to be identified in the news as a genderless “passenger.”

We won’t bother talking about the risk takers, almost always a human being literally with balls, the guys who risk everything on a product they think will make people’s lives better — and when they hit it big, it’s chalked up to “undeserved male privilege.”

Or the guys who run for office because they want to make a difference, only to lose the election to the one woman who bothered to run in a crowded field of seven candidates. That’s because the estrogen crowd, for all their talk of gender equity, take care of their own.

We won’t bother to talk about young fathers, most of whom would make unfathomable sacrifices, physical, monetary, and every other which way, for their children — even though they know that the mother has the power not only to deprive them of seeing their kids but to have them tossed in jail on a lie for good measure.

And we could go on and on and on. Nothing these miserable old hens can say will stop testosterone from doing what it’s always done, even if, more and more, young men are doing what they do in ways these witches don’t approve.

The boys are alright, ladies. Just fine, in fact. The problem is you.

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Carnivore February 25, 2011 at 07:24

In the meantime. I am happy as a pig in mud. :-)

PN, you’ve got that right. Speaking with a female cousin of mine recently, she asked me if I’m ever going to get married. I asked her why I should do that and then told her I’m free to do what I want, when I want and come and go whenever I want. I can cook better and healthier food compared to american wives who open cans, order out and thaw out frozen entrees. I pay a hard working eastern european woman to take care of my cleaning & laundry who does my housekeeping according to the old european standards, not the slob american woman standard.

After I finished, my cousin paused for a moment and said, yeah, you’re better off single.

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Carnivore February 25, 2011 at 07:32

Hymowitz herself proves useless in helping girls identify these markers that help girls make the transition to womanhood, claiming
It’s been an almost universal rule of civilization that girls became women simply by reaching physical maturity

Unbelievable. Basically explains why modern women are totally useless. In traditional roles, a boy was taught to do his duty, learn a trade or profession to support a family, work hard, do a job right, etc., etc. AND a girl was taught to care for children, cook and clean, provide for her husband’s hapiness, etc.

So, after women have stopped doing these things and teaching their daughters these things for the last 4 decades, they are now complaining that men have thrown in the towel and refuse to kill themselves, figuratively and literally, for women? And I should listen and care why?

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 08:00

Carnivore February 25, 2011 at 07:24

On the SMH relationships blog I mentioned that I get a woman to clean my apartment in London and another to clean my apartment in Germany. That I take my laundry to women here in germany (I have a wash machine in london) and that I am quite happy to pay women to bring my food and drink in a restaurant but insist on a MALE chef. Predictably all the wimminz hurled abuse how I was ‘oppressing women’ by ‘making’ them work for me. I pointed out that the work was by invitation. THEY invited ME to pay them for their labour. It is NOT slavery. Predictably they just called me a woman hater then. LOL!!

Apparently, for women, being paid for at home is ‘domestic slavery’ and being paid for at work is also, somehow, ‘slavery’. Hhhmmmm. Womens logic can overcome ANY obstacle…can’t it! And if you don’t agree with their ‘logic’ then you are a woman-hater……ok. Like you say. “I should listen why?”

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Ken February 25, 2011 at 08:18

So, after women have stopped doing these things and teaching their daughters these things for the last 4 decades, they are now complaining that men have thrown in the towel and refuse to kill themselves, figuratively and literally, for women? And I should listen and care why?

EXACTLY! More and more men declining to get married or even spawn children with women in this society will have an after-effect soon enough.
Mark my words…in the next ten years there will be a hue-and-cry over the marriage and birth-dirth here in the US and Uncle Sam Frankenstein will usher in “programs” to incentivize marriage for young men….at the beshest of feminazis.
Like Admiral Ackbar said in Star Wars~Return of the Jedi: “It’s a Trap!!”

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Gendeau February 25, 2011 at 08:32

@Robert February 25, 2011 at 05:19

What a great link, thanks very much.

I particularly liked:

Some Neofeminists despise men so much that they dehumanize them with such descriptions as “pentapods.”

I’m considering a t-shirt with

“free thinking pentapod”

“proud to be a pentapod”

“better a pentapod than biped”

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Savethemales February 25, 2011 at 09:05

Peter-Andrew:Nolan has some valid points and ive given him thumbs ups. I will find out why(one bad post shouldn’t be enough) you got banned at the MGTOW forum and hope they unban you soon. If not, can you create your own forums? Youll attract alot of men from the spearhead and elsewhere.

Sit tight men, we can smell victory! I made a poll and most men think feminism has already peaked or will peak very soon! Men will start regaining our rights. “Empowered” women will have to learn to survive alone, us men are done with you! We are working on virtual girls, sexbots, robogirls, artificial wombs and will be very happy with those women substitutes! Human women will be obsolete!

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Ken February 25, 2011 at 09:21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4

“Whoop….there it is!” :)

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 09:28

Savethemales February 25, 2011 at 09:05

I run two sites for this area of my work. My own personal site and my Crimes Against Fathers Site. The only people who are invited to my sites are men who are willing to sit on juries to fairly and justly try women who commit crimes against fathers and willing to assist other fathers. This is why there are so few members. Most men self select out of the criteria. Of course, if they are willing to sit on OTHER juries that is up to them. The juries and lawful processes my colleagues and I are bringing into Australia and Ireland will first address the massive amount of crime that has ALREADY BEEN COMMITTED against fathers.

The crimes against fathers (CAF) site is a global site that has child portals. I’ve bought hosting for thousands of users. The idea is that I will create a child portal for each country (or perhaps state in the US) and give admin rights to a man who makes oath to me to stay the course and run the portal no matter what. And I do mean prepared to go to jail. Since it is dot net nuke its simple. Guess what? No man has even bothered to volunteer to run said portals in the USA/Canada/UK etc even though it is paid for by me. How about that? You wonder why I am critical of men?

On these sites we will publish court proceedings (LAWFULLY) and we will expose and ‘name and shame’ criminals who commit crimes against fathers. We will publish photographs of criminals. We will publish their home addresses. We will publish allegations as well. For example some men here talked about a site for naming women who had made false rape allegations. Well? If the allegation is against a father I will publish it. Of course, if a man commits slander he may be subject to a case for that. Ricky Partington is slandering some people on the forums as ‘humour’. Let’s see how funny these people think ‘humour’ is when they think its perfectly ok to steal children from men.

They will also be places of support and assistance for men who need it in their common law court cases. We will register men willing to serve on juries and we will run case logs on the portals. These portals will become the single most important set of portals in reintroduction of law across the english speaking world. Period. This is why I will not allow women to join except those who have proven themselves to me. And I do mean ME. We have one such woman allowed at the moment.

There will never be any advertising on the CAF portal. Men are welcome to pitch in money if they like but they are very cheap to run. I can do it in my spare time. If there is ever a need to raise money all men subscribed will be asked for the same donation to retain their subscription. All money will merely support the portals. It will NEVER be used as an ‘open discussion’ portal like spearhead or MGTOW. The CAF site is ONLY for men willing to actually do what I see as their duty. The fact there are very few such men? Well? That’s not MY responsibility.

http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/Default.aspx
http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 09:33

Ken February 25, 2011 at 09:21
Ken…did you see the highest rated comment?

“I wish he was at my wedding”

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 09:37

PS…on the CAF site? If another member asks for your help and has good reason to ask? You are OBLIGED to help if you can. It’s what you signed up to do. We don’t want ‘marshmallow men’ as Robert Kennedy calls them.

You would be amazed how many men….when you put it to them directly to join choose not to. Totally pathetic.

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Paradoxotaur February 25, 2011 at 09:51

“or just go to a sperm bank and get the DNA without the troublesome man”

A similar opportunity is available to men who can just go to an egg bank, hire a surrogate, and raise his children without the troublesome woman, freeing women like Kay Hymowitz from the burden of motherhood. What used to be “women’s work” in Western culture (cooking, cleaning, laundry, keeping a home, etc.) has become trivial in terms of both effort and time, and, as TFH and PAN pointed out, a man can often easily meet his and his children’s needs with relatively little effort compared to the economic/material demands that a wife often adds to the situation. /I strongly support the developement of artificial wombs because it will free women, even women who willingly choose to be surrogates, from the oppression of motherhood./

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Ken February 25, 2011 at 10:19

Don’t be surprised if some feminist politician (or mangina in office)
writes a Bill to extract more $$ from UNMARRIED MEN in taxes and will say it is to go to unwed mothers.
Actually, this is not entirely a conspiracy theory as Senator Pat Shroeder
(D-CO) talked about such an idea when she was in office back in the 90s.

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Ken February 25, 2011 at 10:21

*Shroeder was a Congresswoman (House of Reps) sorry…

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Firepower February 25, 2011 at 10:56

Thus I suspect Manning Up will also fail to connect these dots, which is a shame because the two phenomena are not independent creatures

doodz.
It was a shit test. A high-falutin’ academic PUBLISHED shit test.
And, most manbloggers took the bait hook line and sinker; as if Hymowitz pleas for a good man to “man up” and nail here could ever happen to her outside her pages – what with her looking like an emaciated Flushing Cougar.

The clue was in her using African-American Slang. Fifteen years she would have accused us of “frontin’.”

Not worth even a few clicks on my keyboard, so end of story.

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Jack Donovan February 25, 2011 at 12:26

Great piece. I downloaded her book to my kindle and will probably review it eventually, though I suspect it will be a re hash of the Kimmel and Garcia books with a bit of Rosin for color.

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Lovekraft February 25, 2011 at 13:38

Hilarious how, after having the monopoly in gender studies in Academia, this is the best these women can come up with. The debt spirals, infrastructure crumbles, and they resort to shaming the men who see the situation for what it is: a lost cause.

Whatever family/relationship structure is best is definitely one which does NOT include a pretentious, spoiled, superficial woman-child who expects her man to cater to her every infantile whim.

So much insight in the MRM which is really only a little over a year old. The male instinct for creativity and exploration is brought out in this venue, waiting for the day to apply them to actual society-building tasks. Until real jobs return to the West (instead of the paper-pushing cumbersome bureaucracies), our movement will continue to realign the dynamic of social interaction. Let the manginas/herbs continue thinking they are doing something worthwhile, following like a doormouse their bossy, moody women.

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DevilDog February 25, 2011 at 21:29

Why is it that everything Women do is fake?

Makeup. These Women literally mask themselves and hide their true selves and put on facades to attract attention and to deceive. Women are actors in everything they do, nothing is genuine. And that’s why the must be contained and controlled. They’re more destructive than helpful, sorry to say. They might delude themselves into believing they’re helpful, but I might delude myself into believing that I’m Jesus, doesn’t mean that I am.

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KARMA MRA MGTOW February 26, 2011 at 17:52

Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) February 25, 2011 at 04:53

hahahaha! I just love her 1988 red power top!

I have three years of Tom Leykis on HDD backup.

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