Mormon Woman Reflects on Virginity, Exposes Truth about American Men

by W.F. Price on January 18, 2011

Nicole Hardy, a Seattle woman whose essay on being a virgin into her late 30s was recently published in the New York Times, has been thrust into the spotlight through her confessional piece. It is an odd, but undeniable characteristic of contemporary society that the less discreet a woman is the more she is rewarded, so there’s nothing all that special about her sudden rise to prominence. Additionally, a woman who is still a virgin in her 30s is rare, so there’s going to be a lot of interest in her story if she can tell it well.

However, she makes a good point in her essay that even non-Mormons and non-virgins can relate to. In fact, it’s a point that is salient to the plunging marriage rate and the frequency of divorce, and one that applies to men as well as women. While complaining to a friend about her futile attempts at dating, a man approached her and let her know why she had such bad luck in love:

Obviously, I was left over, too — I was just never sure what my problem was. Until one man let me know. After overhearing a friend and me comparing our weekend horror-date stories, he walked up to me and asked, “You know what your problem is?”

No, I did not know what my problem was. And I was dying to find out.

“Your problem,” he said, “is you don’t need a man.”

[...]

“Men in the church are raised to be providers. We are the breadwinners, the stewards of the household. If you have all the things we’re supposed to provide, we have nothing to give you.”

“What of love?” I asked. “What of intimacy and partnership and making a run at the world together?”

“Nope,” he said. “We’re providers.”

After Richard Francis Burton, the famous British linguist and colonial agent, visited Utah and had a talk with Brigham Young, he came to see Mormonism as the quintessentially American religion. Perhaps he was on to something, because the above exchange between a couple Mormons gets right to the root of the problem between American men and women.

We American men are providers. We are breadwinners. That’s our role. Take it away, and we have nothing to offer.

It’s a cultural imperative so deeply ingrained in society that it will take decades to change, if it ever does. The tragedy of contemporary society is that we’ve done such a good job of it that we now provide for all women, and we are almost all unnecessary. The reason the upper middle class still has a low divorce rate is because the old roles work at a certain level of expectations — the well-paid doctor or attorney can provide enough above the norm to preserve his utility. But for the rest of us, we have nothing to offer but a shared domicile, and that’s paltry fare.

If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. Men need to see themselves as more than purely material beings. More, even, than purely sexual beings. Because if that’s all we are, we’ll never mean much more to women than a new car.

Perhaps it begins when we – both as individuals and society in general – start to value ourselves for more than what we can provide to women.

{ 181 comments… read them below or add one }

Herbal Essence January 18, 2011 at 07:12

I’m an American man, born and raised in the Midwest in a religious household, and I’ve never seen myself as provider. But I’ve always been an oddball, and I can certainly see what the article is driving at.
This is a message I can get behind: “Don’t protect or provide for women. Find another worthwhile quest for your life.” Thumbs up!

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MikkoAP January 18, 2011 at 07:13

Like men everywhere else in the west, american men ARE net-providers still.

Only today a man is not a provider to one specific woman. Or rather he might be, but even then not ONLY to one specific woman.

Through taxation men’s resorces are pooled together and centrally distributed to women.

Of course as a result, fewer and fewer men are willing to give their all in order to provide.

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Ken January 18, 2011 at 07:15

This is a message I can get behind: “Don’t protect or provide for women. Find another worthwhile quest for your life.” Thumbs up!

TWO THUMBS UP!

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Wulf January 18, 2011 at 07:27

If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. Men need to see themselves as more than purely material beings. More, even, than purely sexual beings. Because if that’s all we are, we’ll never mean much more to women than a new car.

You know that some scientists affirm man’s dependence on the evolution of nature and place him in the changeable becoming of the various species. These affirmations, to the extent to which they are really proved, are very important, because they tell us that we must respect the natural world of which we are part. But if we go down into the depths of man, we see that he is more different from nature than he resembles it. Man possesses a spirit, intelligence, freedom, conscience therefore he resembles God more than the created world. John Paul II

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Confused January 18, 2011 at 07:36

This kind of thinking is what has led to biased laws and courts. it is animal-level nonsense like rams butting heads. As a Thinking, Intelligent, human one should arrive at the obvious view that “provider” is one of many roles a man plays in life.

My personal disappointment with american females has been that they seem to operate in a similar “unevolved” state in which they are driven completely by sexual desire and status seeking. The exceptions seem to not exist. So…theres no point having character and values to drive your life with – regard to mates – if you have to act like a “alpha” pack animal in order to attract one.

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 07:39

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 07:42

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DEI January 18, 2011 at 07:42

This is one of the most interesting things I have read on here in a while. I think it’s important to remember that, as providers, everything else we desire from a woman will stem from us being good providers. As a youngster I went through the emotional roller-coaster of treating women as my equals, and the broken relationships and soulless one-night stands that come with it; now, as a mature man, I can see where I went wrong.

I’m not a religious man, but I could perhaps see a deeply religious woman with virtuous values much more compatible with me than many other contemporary women.

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NMH January 18, 2011 at 07:46

The only way we can have a spiritual revolution such that men stop seeing themselves as material beings is if women stop seeing us that way as well. But women’s hypergamy is, unforuntately, NOT a social construct, but an evolutionarily derived one. The metric by which a woman’s hypergamy is measured is material in nature: she wants to date men that can provide more stuff to her that she can provide for herself. Therefore, because women hold to hypergamy no matter what, women will ALWAYS see us as material beings.

The spiritual revolution is impossible, as long as men need women, and women hold to hypergamy.

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Danger January 18, 2011 at 07:48

@ Laura,

“Don’t blame women for preferring someone who is hard working and willing to provide for them. Having some useless pretty boy dragging around your house is only going to be pleasurable for so long.”

What I do blame women for is for going along with the useless boy right up until they are 30 and start falling apart.

WTF should I have to get a torn-up expired vag when I’m the one providing for her for the rest of her life? I would think I deserve a little better than that.

It’s especially infuriating when even if I choose not to sacrifice my money for her, that my money goes to the state to pay for that useless man’s child she chose to birth.

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 07:53

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Elusive Wapiti January 18, 2011 at 07:55

The only way that we men can continue to be superfluous in the provider role is through the continued heavy hand of government. Take those government-enforced wealth transfer payments away from women, and watch women’s ‘independence’ evaporate.

Government largesse, largely financed with borrowed money but also taken by force from men, has been used to supplant those same men’s ‘traditional’ role as providers.

Also, men have never been unnecessary, no matter what the Dowdians say…but women are getting their biologically driven needs met via means other than long-term partnering with men. In a similar manner, men are getting their biological drives sated too. Thanks to promiscuous women, there is little need for men to buy the cows–the milk is after all given away for free.

“We American men are providers. We are breadwinners. That’s our role. Take it away, and we have nothing to offer. “

It is high time we men had our liberation movement. Women had theirs about 50 years ago.

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Migu January 18, 2011 at 07:57

It is simple really. Enforce the relational contract as written. It is not a living document. It really means what it says.

Well, of course in reality it does not, but who the hell lives in reality anyway?

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Alcuin January 18, 2011 at 07:58

The best wisdom I’ve received: “A man needs to learn to live alone.”

Man-as-provider only works when women are willing to be motherly and feminine. Not when they’re more masculine than men are. Then man-as-provider is really man-as-a-great-big-sucker.

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Philip January 18, 2011 at 08:05

Go get a life lara, you selfish troll.

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 08:12

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Angelo January 18, 2011 at 08:14

Lara January 18, 2011 at 07:39
Don’t blame women for preferring someone who is hard working and willing to provide for them. Having some useless pretty boy dragging around your house is only going to be pleasurable for so long
———————

I said the same thing to my wife. She is looking for a job now.

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Confused January 18, 2011 at 08:15

While Lara is a real comedienne, she brings some clarity with her wit.

Most womens childlike approach that they “like dominant men and we can’t help it” leads to poor Sandra Bullock and 70+% divorce initiation by females- all who consider themselves victims.

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Angelo January 18, 2011 at 08:18

All fun and games aside, isn’t it amusing that the traits women hate about men are traits that most women share?

- I hate that men do not work hard – Says the stay at home wife with no kids who does minimal housework and attends yoga three times a week

- I hate men that do not do their share of the work… Says the woman who’s man works 50 hours a week and does not feel like doing dishes at the end of the day for his stay at home wife.

- I hate men who cheat… Yeah… this one is self explanitory.

We should have a national “give the women in your life a saucer day”. Women appreciate things that are shallow… :)

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Ken January 18, 2011 at 08:38

WTF should I have to get a torn-up expired vag when I’m the one providing for her for the rest of her life? I would think I deserve a little better than that. It’s especially infuriating when even if I choose not to sacrifice my money for her, that my money goes to the state to pay for that useless man’s child she chose to birth.

Well-put Danger! I concur…I tend to not call it “hypergamy” these days as it’s more-often-than-not an American woman’s WEAK choice of mate that wins the day (and our tax money to fund the womb-goblin of a dysgenic never-do-well male). American women seem to pick the LESSER MAN to mate with then scramble to find a BETTER man to fund raising the little weakling spawn. Britney Spears is an example of this….Federline was no where near her status, only a chump back-up dancer!

The New American Dream: the WEAK and STUPID financed at the expense of the strong and intelligent (fewer fewer in number).

Maybe God looks after collapsing civilizations in the long run?

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Cranky January 18, 2011 at 08:46

“If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. Men need to see themselves as more than purely material beings. More, even, than purely sexual beings. Because if that’s all we are, we’ll never mean much more to women than a new car.

Perhaps it begins when we – both as individuals and society in general – start to value ourselves for more than what we can provide to women.”

Wisest thing I’ve seen written on this site. Agree 100%. Especially the sexual aspect; men need to become the new virgins. They have no idea how much power they could wield by withholding their sexuality from women. Just a suggestion!

“Women who have to do everything themselves get hardened towards men.”

No, Lara. Actually they become more responsible and whenever you go for a stroll in someone else’s shoes you gain this valuable thing called empathy.
Try to learn to do some of those “man” things (well, not half-assed); it really is “empowering.” Gender roles are made to be broken.

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Herbal Essence January 18, 2011 at 08:53

Lara-”We like dominant men and we can’t help it anymore than you can help being attracted to young, pretty women.”

This is a false equivalency. Yes, men like young pretty women but most of us learn early on to be realistic about our market value. We do what we can to raise our value, but in the end we settle for the best we can get or we find other solutions (such as prostitution or foreign brides.)

On the other hand, most women in modern society believe that they are deserving of top-shelf alphas. They will waste their best years on one-night stands with alpha studs. (“I thought the guitarist with four girlfriends was going to love me forever. Waaahhhhh!!!!”) And when they’re forced to settle, they feel contempt for their mate. There is also a multibillion-dollar industry for women trying (mostly in vain) to improve their market value.

Of course, modern women neglect their best solution, which is to find a solid guy of compatible value and encourage his best characteristics to come out. A time-tested and proven way for women to get the mate they want. But that requires compassion, patience, and nurturing, and women simply aren’t capable of those things anymore. Nope. They just want to stand around and wait for Prince Charming, stomping on all the frogs who come her way in the meantime.

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Seamus the Classicist January 18, 2011 at 09:10

Men have never needed women, except at birth. In traditional societies the wife and family were seen, correctly, as an extention of the man. This comes from the idea of male creative principle: God made the world and saw that it was good because it was of Him. In sacrificial ritual there is a recalling to that primordial pre-woman state, Adam was before Eve and men living without fire before Pandora, the Mannerbund takes the flesh of an animal and offers it up to the Ultimate Man the Father God. Here is where the traditions diverge: In Genesis the slaughter of animals came after the Fall caused by woman, In the Works and Days men lived on raw meat, but a fundemental change came in Human society with the Introduction of Woman.

All traditional societies have looked upon men who are lacivious as effeminate. A lack of self-control something that young boys were taught once they left the mother and entered into the company of men. This sense can be seen in Caesar’s Commentaries on the Gallic War in which he describes the sexual mores of the Germanics, man and woman bathed together naked because the men considered loose behavior with women as un-manly, especially before 20 (whether it is true or not isn’t the point, the point is that Caesar saw this as contrary to the softening and effeminate ways of urban Romans.)

Maybe this comes from an Archaic time when a man’s ability to control himself was seen as key to his survival and the survival of the Mannerbund. Men are providers of life, the issuers, like rain on soil, like a farmer planting crops, but you don’t sow you seed on rocky or poisonous ground, that would be a waste of your energy.

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Rebel January 18, 2011 at 09:25

“Perhaps it begins when we – both as individuals and society in general – start to value ourselves for more than what we can provide to women. “

This is spot on. Bull’s eye!

And this is pretty much what we have been saying here.

The provider role is like a snake skin: it must get ditched after a while. Time we ditched our very old and very obsolete role.

That’s the road to real freedom.

A provider role simply means that you are expected to sacrifice yourself for the sake of a woman. It stinks. It is completely senseless.

I think that, indeed, the time is ripe for a men’s liberation movement.

The older model no longer satisfies women and it does no longer satisfy men for exactly opposite reasons: women think we don’t do enough while we think we do too much.

“If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women”

The big question is: do we want that?
And why?

The “rift” took place because nobody accepts the old way anymore. Do we want to go back to the old way now?
And then start drifting again and again? And go through hell again?
This is men’s golden opportunity to shake off their manacles.

This is the century of the self. No one can doubt that.
Men and women no longer need one another and that’s the key to the whole story.

It takes time to make the necessary adjustments. Problems will continue to exist until men finally wake-up and start to see that there’s so much more to life than wife and kids. And endless responsibilities and blames. And jail sentences. And loss of self-respect. And total deconstruction.

I agree that men have nothing to offer to women. And why should we?
What’s in it for men? (long silence?).

It is also true that women have nothing to offer to men. And why should they?

We are entering a brand new and exciting era: rather than being sheep, people can, at long last, be entirely free from obligations, limitations and endless responsibilities. In other words: free from slavery.

Women can take care of themselves now, and of their kids, too. This is our cue: the golden cage door is… wide open. Live it up!

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Nemo January 18, 2011 at 09:57

Take two US citizens who are making $20,000 a year and compute the federal income taxes for them. Assume one of them is a divorced man and the other one is his ex-wife with two or three kids.

The man will pay around $1000 in taxes.

The woman will pay no taxes and get at least $8,000 and perhaps as much as $10,000 in money back from the government, depending on how much she pays for child care, which is partially reimbursed by the government.

That’s *just* for filing out a 1040 form.

She also gets neat things like WIC (free money for food), section 8 (housing), Medicaid, etc.

She will probably outlive her ex-husband by perhaps five to seven years and will therefore collect more money from Medicare and Social Security than he will.

Oh, she also gets child support (tax free) and alimony from him.

He ends up paying perhaps 50% of his net income in taxes, CS, and alimony.

She can end up getting her salary close to *doubled* from his CS, his alimony, and tax money taken virtually at gunpoint from male taxpayers whom she has never even met.

The saddest thing of all is that she is much better off after she divorces him. The government is, in effect, rewarding her with thousands of dollars a year for terminating her marriage. God bless America.

After all, of this, she will proudly proclaim herself to be a strong, independent woman who “don’t need no man”.

She is either stupid enough to actually believe this or evil enough to repeat a known lie.

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zed January 18, 2011 at 10:03

men need to become the new virgins. They have no idea how much power they could wield by withholding their sexuality from women.

I have often said that no one has ever ruined his life by practicing sexual restraint.

Men are already withdrawing from women. Much is being made of the recent news that more than a third of Japanese males aged between 16 and 19 have no interest in or are actively averse to sex, according to a government survey.

This won’t affect women much in the short-term sexual market, because they all compete for the men at the top of the attractiveness hierarchy. But, it will be devastating to the marital prospects of average women. Having over 1/3rd of young men simply refuse to play the game is similar to the sex ratio now seen in higher education in the US – which has led to the hookup culture in which competition between women to even have a boyfriend is quite intense.

Add to this toxic mix the staggering statistics regarding Sexually Transmitted diseases. It has been reported here many times that close to 50% of all college-age women have 1 or more STDs. A fellow from the Netherlands reported that in a health class he was taking, the the lifetime risk for a women to get HPV is expected to be 80%.

The old roles really are reversing to some extent – men are becoming gatekeepers when it comes to sex, and women are seeking it more aggressively because their entire power base depends on it. Their loss of the ability to count on men being horny beasts who will pay any price for sex is going to turn out to be a real loss for them.

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fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 10:06

Like the article WF

“We American men are providers. We are breadwinners. That’s our role. Take it away, and we have nothing to offer.”

There’s the problem ingrained in us. Men offer so much, and it can even be argued more than women. Men are creative, funny, story tellers, better teachers here, better at taking criticism here, more respected bosses, better scientists, poets, and they are actually crucially good parents here. And somehow we are the ones who need to make ourselves look less plain with money and chivalry. Give me a break.

I recently heard a female redditor, who is actually very sympathetic to men, talk about how she feels bad that men’s identity has been taken as they are no longer breadwinners. She also said that women’s identity is something their born with, menstruation and pregnancy. Screw that, I have my penis and thats all I need. I don’t need an identity of making money for women (or doing chivalry which is Feminism) and maybe its time women actually earn an identity instead of having some spoiled Cinderella complex that leads them to believe they can achieve anything by doing nothing.

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Elusive Wapiti January 18, 2011 at 10:07

They have no idea how much power they could wield by withholding their sexuality from women

More effective I think would be to withhold our resources from women.

This includes taxes paid.

Women don’t care about our sexuality, but they do covet our resources.

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fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 10:07

Why is my comment awaiting moderation?

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W.F. Price January 18, 2011 at 10:10

Why is my comment awaiting moderation?

-fondueguy

Links.

fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 10:13

“More effective I think would be to withhold our resources from women.”

No I disagree, women are much more sexual creatures than they are about wanting more money.

@zed

I was just thinking of linking that article to explain the greater need women have to do something useful.

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Cranky January 18, 2011 at 10:24

“The old roles really are reversing to some extent – men are becoming gatekeepers when it comes to sex, and women are seeking it more aggressively because their entire power base depends on it. Their loss of the ability to count on men being horny beasts who will pay any price for sex is going to turn out to be a real loss for them.”

Every time a mindless bimbo is denied, God smiles. A power base formed on your looks or sexuality is a flimsy base indeed! Likewise, I don’t understand the whole PUA mentality; so much energy, time, money on getting what? Pussy! Jesus H. Christ! No one should be a slave to their crotch; what a waste of a life.

Personally, I would prefer seeing a decrease of modern day American Raunch Culture (you’ll never get rid of it entirely).

Fewer marriages and hook-ups? That’s a good thing; it means smaller population numbers. We simply don’t need the huge numbers of people we currently have and better to achieve that by voluntary means instead of wars and pandemics.

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cracker January 18, 2011 at 10:32

Women who have to do everything themselves get hardened towards men.

Yes they do, when they are the type of women who see themselves as victims and aren’t willing to take responsibility for the choices they have made that have led to their situation.

It’s all about perspective. Hard work develops good character – more women should try it sometime instead of constantly bitching about their lot in life.

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 10:35

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WOW January 18, 2011 at 10:49

You bought bed sheets and made a bed and watched TV…..holy fuck, you win a Nobel Prize!

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zed January 18, 2011 at 10:50

“We American men are providers. We are breadwinners. That’s our role. Take it away, and we have nothing to offer.”

There’s the problem ingrained in us.

That’s like saying that horses are born to be plow-pullers, take that away from them and they have nothing to offer. Ask a wild horse if his life suddenly gets a lot more meaning by being gelded and hooked to a plow.

As fondue guys says, that view of ourselves – as beasts of burden, as manbots, gets ingrained in us. Except, starting about 45 years ago, women starting telling that they needed us to be beasts of burden and manbots like fish needed bicycles.

Many of us Boomer men, raised by parents who deeply resented the burdens we placed on them, saw the open gate as our opportunity to escape being trapped in that role, and took it. It has been absolutely amazing to watch the number of men since then who absolutely demand the right to be slaves to women, and to the very same government who regards them as slaves to be exploited, and like fur seals as crops to be harvested.

Oh, forgot the money quote about the 80% HPV rate –

Since the risk was 80%, she said that having HPV should not be strange, but rather NOT having it. And the mostly female audience (70%) laughed loudly.

Got that? Having an STD is the new normal, and being disease free is the new abnormal.

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zed January 18, 2011 at 10:53

Women don’t care about our sexuality, but they do covet our resources.

More than anything else, women crave attention. And, the standard way they get that attention from men is to use their sexuality as bait. Take that power away from them, and they have no weapons with which to lay claim to our resources and steal them from us.

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Cranky January 18, 2011 at 10:53

Oh Lara, Lara!

Yesterday, I got up early, shoveled, cleaned the walks (snowblower too); went to work, came home, cooked dinner, cleaned out the fireplace, brought in some loads of wood, did some other housework crap, grocery shopped and had NO time for teevee land. Oh the humanity! And I’m married too – and I don’t feel the right to expect any “gratitude” – he does stuff, I do stuff. That’s called life.

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fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 10:53

“Don’t blame women for preferring someone who is hard working and willing to provide for them. Having some useless pretty boy dragging around your house is only going to be pleasurable for so long.” – Lara

@EW
See, this could be interpreted as wanting resources but it could also be viewed as wanting sexual dominance. She offers nothing if she is not the more desired one. The pretty boy eventually would change her identity similar to aging which makes her unsexy (to put it in a nice way). Additional she probably worries the pretty boy will leave her, especially when she ages, as he is desirable.

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Robert January 18, 2011 at 10:55

Cranky January 18, 2011 at 10:24

“We simply don’t need the huge numbers of people we currently have and better to achieve that by voluntary means instead of wars and pandemics.”

Or more immigrants/illegal immigrants

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Anonymous January 18, 2011 at 10:56

Zed and Cranky both said it much better than I could have. Interesting topic indeed.

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zed January 18, 2011 at 10:57

Because I believe I am entitled

Pretty much says it all.

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Robert January 18, 2011 at 10:57

zed January 18, 2011 at 10:03

You are very wise.

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Robert January 18, 2011 at 10:59

Men already possess the keys to unlock the locks that keep the chains of their oppression in place. Use the keys and throw off your chains.

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Gunn January 18, 2011 at 11:00

The more and more I read here and elsewhere on the manosphere, the more convinced I am that the root problem is economic. We need to get rid of big government, of taxation without representation (and particularly its converse, representation without taxation), and the entirety of the socialist mindset.

Again and again, once you sort through the rhetoric (such as empowered, independent womanhood) you get to the core point: our culture subsidises women, but no one admits or is allowed to admit that the subsidy happens. This results in bizarre leaps of ‘logic’ where women disregard the very men who work hard, pay taxes, and support the lifestyles of the people who hate them. We’ve institutionalised the concept of biting the hand that feeds you.

The direct way to address these ills is for political movements to form around true ‘tea-party’ principles. I.e. not the version suborned by feminist versions of the conservatives, but a party that is true to the principles the original united states were built on. A new battle hymn for the republic, the roar of men who have seen the dark heart of society and who are willing to stand up and say ‘enough!’.

In the UK too, I think about how such a party could be created and mobilised. We seem to be close to the tipping point, where either our society must find a way to renew itself and arise from its bloodstained ashes, or else perish into dust like a thousand forgotten cultures before us. When I am in an optimistic mood, I suspect that its an endeavour that would gain momentum through its own steam once it could be grown above a certain size; like a snowball causing an avalanche, a small impetus changing the world.

When I am in a more pessimistic mood, I suspect that the only choice most men have may be indirect; streamline one’s life, cut down on unnecessary expense and then on unnecessary income, and starve the beast of state. Eventually all its many corrupt works would be brought to ruin by draining away its lifeblood – mens tax, their sweat, and their labour.

Instinctively, I want to believe that a principled grassroots political movement is the way forward, the butterfly flapping its wings. The real question is how.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 1
tom47 January 18, 2011 at 11:02

The notion that men exist to serve, protect and provide arises from the nature of post agricultural or “patriarchal” society. In contrast to pre agricultural society where a natural hierarchy of parents and relatives prevailed, the stranger hierarchy of post agricultural society has no interest in the welfare of those below and simply seeks to exploit them. As men have more spare effort and resources than women under primitive conditions, the politics of post agricultural society revolves around controlling and regimenting men. This becomes the mantra of protecting, providing and serving. Men have no inherent rights or entitlements and secure privileges only as a result of service to that hierarchy. In addition in all matters of sex, reproduction and relationships women are giving and men are taking. Men in essence owe the state and owe women.
As long as men owe women and the state and define their worth as derived from their ability to serve and provide, laws and customs will always favor women over men in all matters of sex, reproduction and relationships. We will always have to prove our worth, as it is not assumed to be inherent but earned thru service or usefulness. We will always be the aggressor and they will always be the victim as long we are the takers and they are the givers.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4
Rebel January 18, 2011 at 11:07

@Lara
“Then I washed, seasoned and cooked a whole chicken, made macaroni and cheese and put one of those salads in a bag in a bowl. I don’t think most men want to do all this for themselves and a little gratitude would be nice.”

You would be quite surprised at the number of men who cook.
And they are good cooks at that: an art that women have lost because they see it as a sign of slavery.

The most common fallacy running today is that men and women need one another: that’s complete hogwash.

As we progress toward reproductive independance, you will see that men and women are indeed quite independant from one another.

I think this is a necessary step if mankind is to continue on the road to progress.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 7
il128 January 18, 2011 at 11:07

The one basic theme in all of this conversation is this; Women see themselves as victims of circumstance.

No matter what choices a woman has made she will always find a man to blame for her circumstance.

““What of love?” I asked. “What of intimacy and partnership and making a run at the world together?””

Am I really the only one who knows how ironic a statement that is coming from a 30-something-year-old woman?

“Love?” A chemical and physiological reaction that runs its course in about 4-7 years for most women. Most of the single men you’ll be seeing at this stage in your life (30′s) will already be paying child support and alimony. Most single men in their 30′s have been there done that and are really way to wise to play house again.

Intimacy and partnership and making a run at the world together? Can a single woman in her thirties really be this naive? Sure thing baby, my child support stops when I’m 52 or 62 or 67… I’m financially incapable of dedicating myself to another “run at the world” and I’ve already gotten third degree burns dabbling in “intimacy and partnership.” Both of which have turned out to be nothing more than the tuna bait placed in a steel-jaw leghold trap.

There’s a 52% divorce rate, at a minimum. Women file for 70% of the divorces for a reason. That divorce rate and all those filing aren’t happening because men are bad. The divorce rate is what it is because divorce pays women a huge reward for leaving their men.

Men are learning. “Men are just providers.” My ass.
Men are fathers, lovers, friends and care givers and modern feminism has stolen the very soul of what a marriage and a partnership was.

Why in the Hell would any man ever get married or even commit to a woman in 2011? It’s not a partnership any more. It’s a divorce proceeding.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 64 Thumb down 2
F.M.R January 18, 2011 at 11:14

Lara

“Men have never needed women, except at birth.”
Dumbest comment ever. Just the other day I went to Bed, Bath and Beyond and bought new sheets for our bed. I also made the beds, did a little housework and put in a load of laundry. Because I believe I am entitled to some down time I watch an episode of Mistresses (a British show about 4 women in their 30s) and folded the clothes during it. Then I washed, seasoned and cooked a whole chicken, made macaroni and cheese and put one of those salads in a bag in a bowl. I don’t think most men want to do all this for themselves and a little gratitude would be nice.

So…. you shopped, watched crappy TV shows, cooked, and did laundry.

Certainly men dont want to do this for themselves(we would be especially horrified if we had to watch Mistresses), but its not as if its remotely difficult or as if we cant easily do it, whether we want to or not.

Between getting these simple, menial tasks done, or getting a woman to do them at the price of a world of hurt down the road and owing her half my paycheck for years to come, I think its clear what the better option currently is.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 3
zed January 18, 2011 at 11:16

“Then I washed, seasoned and cooked a whole chicken, made macaroni and cheese and put one of those salads in a bag in a bowl. I don’t think most men want to do all this for themselves and a little gratitude would be nice.”

Twenty minutes total time, max. A couple of months ago, I made fettuccine Alfredo, Caesar salad, and breadsticks for 40 people, and didn’t expect a trophy.

I wonder if Lara expects gold stars every time she manages to wipe her own butt? ;) (except we know that “Lara” is really a man doing a caricature of today’s useless woman – and doing an excellent job of it!)

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 48 Thumb down 3
finndistan January 18, 2011 at 11:17

Gunn said it right.

It is economic and the hiding of the fact that men as a collective work to provide for women.

See it goes like this:
“Free childcare is a human right”
“Maternity support is a human right”
“Free healthcare is a human right”
“Social security is a human right”
“Affirmative action is a human right”
“Abortion without letting the father know is a human right”
“Being a mother is a human right”
“Being a single mother is a human right”
“Free STD care is a human right”

And then you ask:
“If all these are human rights, where is my right to get sex since I am effing paying for all these female rights?” (remember being a mother is a human right, so if she has a right to sperm, means I got the right to a vaj)

“You sexist fascist”

“Fine. So if abortion is a human right, me not wanting to be paying for her decision is also a human right”

“You a**hole”

—————-

No woman who ever claims with pride that she is
“Independent and strong”

Deserves no man providing for her in her life.

If I will one day provide, I will make sure she wants to provide me with femininity.

The “Independent and strong women” who do not need the provisions of the men (daddy govnmt not mentioned of course) deserve only to be sexually provided for, without any other kind of provision, emotionak, financial, energy wise or time wise.

A strong and independent woman is a self powered dump pump.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 5
Hestia January 18, 2011 at 11:41

@zed-except we know that “Lara” is really a man doing a caricature of today’s useless woman – and doing an excellent job of it!)
Actually “Lara” made one critical flaw with today’s trolling job: the prepping, seasoning, and roasting of a whole chicken is pathetically out of the culinary reach of many women today. At least “Lara” didn’t claim to truss the chicken, turn the leftovers into chicken salad for sandwiches, and then make stock out of the carcass. Had that been the case “Lara’s” cover would have really been blown. ;)

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aharon January 18, 2011 at 11:44

“Their loss of the ability to count on men being horny beasts who will pay any price for sex is going to turn out to be a real loss for them”.
—- Put lipstick on something that men associate with being a pig and it is still a pig.

I think that withholding sex, resource$, and companionship with women is the way to go.

Where are all the men at women ask aloud? Duh, like any people that have been under bombardment-attack for the past 45 years, those of us not fully emasculated and feminized are hiding in our bunkers trying to keep away from women and society.

Time for me to go meet a male friend, and have a burger and a beer. My friend is divorced raising his son and also has a psycho ex-girlfriend who intentionally got herself pregnant with him. He has sworn off sex with women until he gets a vasectomy and will not get married again.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1
cracker January 18, 2011 at 11:47

Lara -

That list of crap that you “accomplished” in one day was a joke, right? You can’t seriously think that anyone would be impressed with that BS. Salad in a bag? Jesus, you’re f***ing amazing. I bet you had to actually cut the bag open yourself. No wonder you’re so disgusted with men – you shouldn’t have to do things like that yourself.

I can see it now:

Him: “I worked all day”
You: “Well I opened a bad of salad, you a**!”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 0
Lance January 18, 2011 at 11:48

What’s funny about Nicole is it took reaching her mid thirties to realize she had no chance to find someone in the mormon dating marketplace-she blamed the men of course, but her expectations betray her criticism. Her’s what she wanted: marriage to a highly committed mormon, no kids, and extreme passion in the bedroom. A mormon Brad Pitt with no interest in kids! Someone alert the bigfoot hunters, there is a more elusive creature to be found.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 0
Nico January 18, 2011 at 11:53

I think it is mostly hardwired and it would be utopian to think that this mindset, both in males and females, can be completely changed.

IMO the only realistic solution to give more value to men is to get rid of all the safety nets, quotas, positive discrimination that guarantees women that they don’t really need a provider and that they can spend years chasing alpha cock knowing that they will be able to raise their kids even if they are single.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
W.F. Price January 18, 2011 at 11:55

the prepping, seasoning, and roasting of a whole chicken is pathetically out of the culinary reach of many women today.

-Hestia

Pathetic, isn’t it? I can do all that and then some, although I admit that I usually don’t bother with the stock. I’ve never met a woman my age who can cook as well as I can who is not a professional, and it’s just a hobby for me. Actually, most of my male friends who grew up in working-mother homes are quite competent in the kitchen. When I meet a guy my age who can’t cook, I’m kind of surprised, but when I meet a woman who can, I’m even more surprised.

anon January 18, 2011 at 11:56

Its not if the man can provide for the woman, its if he can provide for the kiddies. Humans evolved in an environment where child birth and child rearing is a high risk and resource consuming activity. If you pick a strong mate, your kiddies will be well fed and grow up to be big and strong, if not, they are small and weak and become lion food. No one wants thier kid to become lion food.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Stickman January 18, 2011 at 11:57

@ wow ….. dude she did more than Obama did. give her the now worthless prize

@ Lara
ma’am you comment on pretty much every post yet every time you come so close but never get “it” whatever the post may be look at the scottish dyke who befuddled 2 chicks for like 8 years. everybody else comments on if the woman posing as a man will get the same treatment as a man would if the situations were somehow reversed. you on the other hand comment on the idea of getting pronged by a strap-on as being “hot” . WTF honestly your comments are so universally vacuous that i almost think you are putting effort in seaming dense! i welcome a woman’s point of view at the very least as a sounding board. but do you have ANYTHING of substance to add??? you described your day now it may be a normal or lazy day for you but shit i do more than that EVERYDAY! i cook i clean i do the outside chores i work a more than full time on-call as well type job, im married and have a child who i take care of and is the light of my life. yes guys i fell for it 9 years ago, my wife isnt a feminist just the product of feminism aka almost worthless. i say almost because she does have a almost fulltime job …. doing the same thing she did BEFORE collage …. talk about wasted effort and money. see that bachelors deg circling the drain…. anyway back to the point as long as i have been here you never seem to get it. may i suggest lurking a wile till you catch on to what we are really talking about.

PS: as soon as the come out with good fake women all i gotta say is my name is Doug and im outa heeeeeere

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 3
W.F. Price January 18, 2011 at 11:59

I think it is mostly hardwired and it would be utopian to think that this mindset, both in males and females, can be completely changed.

-Nico

It probably is to some degree, but it’s especially pathological in America, wouldn’t you agree? I mean, even your own mother will spit on you if you don’t “measure up” here, and at the same time absolutely no effort is made to ensure that men have a decent shot at providing. Today, most of them simply can’t do it.

Stickman January 18, 2011 at 12:01

i will say this for the chick in the article 30+ years a virgin yet still dates ill bet she gives a mean handjob!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6
woodins January 18, 2011 at 12:06

Lara,

I did all that when I came home from work ( minus the purchasing sheets and watching “Mistresses” – If I want to watch something so far detached from reality, I will put something like “Star Wars” or “Lord of The Rings” on – at least their are better special effects in those flights of fantasy). Its really no big deal. Just turned 30, was in two long-term “conventional” relationships, although been “conventionally” single for three years, and one thing I have learned is that alot of women put alot of stock in domesticity, and slowly push men away from it once a relationship is established – especially if he is independant and can do the simple things like cook and clean for himself. That way, doing something as banal and simple like . . . . . I dunno, changing the sheets or *gasp seasoning a chicken is given alot more value and can be used as social leverage by the women in the confines of the relationship (guilt tripping is the preferred weapon of choice by most domestic goddesses).
Theres a reason for that. I mean, what else do you have to offer a man apart from your domestic duties Lara? How old are you? How much do you weigh? Is the menopausal moustache threatening the corners of your mouth? Had kids? Stretch marks? Do you wear a belt across your navel as opposed to your waist when you wear a dress in some desperate attempt to give your body the illusion of shape?

The young women I currently see now knows I have no interest in her cooking/cleaning skills. If/when she cooks for me, I give her thanks, but I dont slavishly heap praise about something as inconsequential as cooking a meal. And she knows that and doesn’t expect it. She knows I want her around for her easy going attitude and sex appeal. I find the women who have neither of those traits are the ones who make such a big deal about “ALL THE WORK I DO IN THIS HOUSE!”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 4
thehermit January 18, 2011 at 12:21

Through taxation men’s resorces are pooled together and centrally distributed to women.

the problem is not this, it happens everywhere else on the world also.
the problem is, that you have no right to tell, where they give the money taken from you.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6
Patr333x January 18, 2011 at 12:28

The problem is not that men are no longer needed as providers, they still are. The problem is that women no longer want to look at men as providers. Women today don’t want to appreciate men for their actions, they see those actions as basic obligation.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2
thehermit January 18, 2011 at 12:29

When you support a woman individually, and she acts disrespectful to you, you can say O.K. i’m finished with this, you have to find somebody else.
You have something in your hands. Through taxation and child support- nothing.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 12:41

I love it, excellent posts. Men owe women nothing. They owe us for 10,000 years of protection, I want compounding interest paid in hours in which I am left alone, please.

It seems like the consensus is that men need to find a new way of interacting with society, I seizmic shift from how I was raised.

If you want children that badly, as someone who has been there done that, I say use a surrogate. It’s no different than the sperm banks women use. And no STD’s.

I love this positive angle on the situation, you could even call it “progressive”!

So, we men here in the MRM are the new “Progressives”.

The only thing I have to say to todays women is: Get a Job.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6
zed January 18, 2011 at 12:43

The problem is that women no longer want to look at men as providers. Women today don’t want to appreciate men for their actions, they see those actions as basic obligation.

Yup.

Because I believe I am entitled

Says it all.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Robert in Arabia January 18, 2011 at 12:44

Life: An Ongoing Journey from Passage to Passage
Today…rites of passage are almost extinct. Boys [or girls] lack clear markers on their journey to becoming a man [or woman]. If you ask them when the transition occurs, you will get a variety of answers: “”When you get a car,” “When you graduate from college,” “When you get a real job,” “When you lose your virginity,” “When you get married, “When you have a kid,” and so on. The problem with many of these traditional rites of passage is that they have been put off further and further in a young man’s life. 50 years ago the average age an American man started a family was 22. Today, men [and women] …. are getting married and having kids later in life. With these traditional rites of passage increasingly being delayed, many men [and women] are left feeling stuck between [childhood] and [adulthood]. College? Fewer men are graduating. And many that do “boomerang” back home again, spending another few years figuring out what the next step in their life should be. As traditional rites of passage have become fuzzier, young men are plagued with a sense of being adrift. _ArtofManliness

The long transition from the incompetence of infancy to the competence of a skilled, well-rounded, and confident adulthood, should provide many opportunities for acquiring personal competence and for discovering one’s own pace and direction of discovery and mastery over challenges. If a society — such as ours — is profoundly neglectful and negligent in providing for these successive rites and opportunities for competency acquisition, it will be rewarded with lifelong adolescents who lack both competency and confidence.

Although it may never be too late to have a happy childhood, it may be too late to learn competencies at your peak learning window. That is a pity, but only one of many, and not to be cried over. The lesson to be learned from it is to not repeat the same mistake for your students, children, or grandchildren.

If you are 30 or 40 years old and still trying to find your “vision quest” or “rite of passage”, you have been ill treated by well-meaning parents and society. Do what you can to make up for it in yourself, but try not to perpetuate the crime on future generations.

Baby birds have to first crack their way out of their hard shells. Then they have to learn to leave the nest without killing themselves. They have to learn to fly, feed, survive. Then they must find mates, raise their young, migrate with the seasons, over and over again.

Modern humans of affluent societies wish to spare their young from all of those difficulties. That is the worst thing they could do. Modern college professors too often tell students what to think rather than preparing them to competently mind-wrestle all comers. Such indoctrination — a hallmark of a modern university education — is likewise the worst possible approach. And so it goes, as government takes the place of parents and schools, creating an artificial layer of regulation and “protection” around the citizen.

As new generations of incompetents work their way further into the control rooms of government and society, expect things to get harder for almost everyone. These are the times when you want maximum competence for yourself and those around you.
Labels: competence, rite of passage

POSTED BY AL FIN AT 12:54 AM 0 COMMENTS LINKS TO THIS POST 1/19/2011

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5
SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 12:47

BTW: The number of women that will, at some point in their lives get HPV is indeed 80%.

What does HPV cause? Well, within the last 20 years we have learned that HPV causes almost all cervical cancers, is being discovered right now to be involved in many if not all head and neck cancers like throat cancer, mouth cancer and nasal cancers as well as laryngeal cancer.

But there is a vaccine called Gardasil and it is recommended for women 16-26. It has been FDA approved for boys but you won’t read about that, women don’t want anything available for boys, it’s a zero sum game to them.

I think all young men should get the Gardsil vaccine.

http://cancer.about.com/od/hpvvaccine/a/hpv_vaccine_boys.htm

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 14
zed January 18, 2011 at 12:49

So, we men here in the MRM are the new “Progressives”.

The only thing I have to say to todays women is: Get a Job.

Interesting, I guess all those SoCons who say we are “just like feminists” may be on to something. A few years ago, feminist Linda Hirshman published a screed called “Get to Work.

After all, someone has to pay all those taxes now that guys like me are doing our bit for “wage parity”, and in my case making less than 65 cents for every $1 I used to make, while working about half as hard and half as many hours.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
Trueheart12 January 18, 2011 at 12:51

In the Bible, in Genesis God says to the woman (Eve, representing herself and all the Daughters of Eve) “Because thou hast done this (partaken of the forbidden fruit and convinced Adam to also partake of it), thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee.”
Later, once in the Old Testament and three times in the New, God instructs husbands and wives how to treat one another. In each instance, the instructions are given to wives first, and then to husbands. Wives are told (three times) to submit (or be obediant to) her own husband, and see that she honors him.

So the problem we’re talking about is the disobedience to God and unrighteousness of women. But which preachers will stand up and say so? They’ll get flamed for it, as I do.

I believe Heavenly Father loves His daughters as much, and probably a little bit more than His sons. So this commandment to wives is a loving commandment, to bless them who keep it. What we have to understand is that wives who submit to, obey, and honor their own husbands find that they feel loved by their hubbies, joy in their hearts and blessed beyond words. In contrast, those wives who contend with their hubbies for power and control, find themselves feeling unloved, unhappy and in five or ten years wanting a divorce from a man they no longer respect.

A husband cannot righteously force submission or obedience from his wife. But a wife who contends with him for power and control is a worthless wife sowing the seeds of her discontent.

That is why a loving HF gave this commandment four times to wives. He LOVES His daughters and wants them to find joy. Contending with their husbands is not the way to find it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 8
Charles Martel January 18, 2011 at 12:51

Pathetic, isn’t it? I can do all that and then some, although I admit that I usually don’t bother with the stock. I’ve never met a woman my age who can cook as well as I can who is not a professional, and it’s just a hobby for me. Actually, most of my male friends who grew up in working-mother homes are quite competent in the kitchen. When I meet a guy my age who can’t cook, I’m kind of surprised, but when I meet a woman who can, I’m even more surprised.
W. F. Price

I haven’t met a woman yet who can get a meal with more than three elements all ready to serve simultaneously. When I cook I work off a mental Gantt chart constructed on the cooking time of the longest-to-cook component. So roast beef, yorkshire pudding, gravy, mashed and roast potatoes, carrots and leeks all arrive at the table together and are served on hot plates. Oh yeah, plates. Even when a woman does mostly get it together, that expansive Thanksgiving dinner is inevitably served on a COLD china plate. Way to ruin a good meal!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2
SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 12:53

And do you know what I think about anyones opinion of this, well, I can’t tell you because we are trying to use more polite language recently.

It’s cool go be a free man.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3
Dubcik January 18, 2011 at 12:53

Nemo wrote “After all, of this, she will proudly proclaim herself to be a strong, independent woman who “don’t need no man”.

She is either stupid enough to actually believe this or evil enough to repeat a known lie.”

I vote for stupid.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 19
SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 13:03

For 50 years men have been lauging at feminists and calling them stupid.

How has that turned out for us.

So, who is stupid? Who get’s custody? Who goes to college? Who teaches their child not to be the slave in marriage? Who stays home and who works? Who can accuse the other of anything and be believed and even has laws that will not allow a proper defense by the accused?

I thought so.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 2
slwerner January 18, 2011 at 13:04

Lara – “I don’t think most men want to do all this for themselves and a little gratitude would be nice.”

And yet, the plainly obvious reality is that more and more men are doing exactly that (substituting better fare for the Mistresses garbage, of course).

And, one doesn’t hear those men complaining about having to take care of those things themselves.

The award for “dumbest comment” certainly belongs to you today. All you managed to do is help to highlight that men don’t truly need women, while you though you were making some brilliant insight into how men “depend” on women for simple (aka low-value) tasks.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3
scot January 18, 2011 at 13:09

“If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. ”
this is the truth!!
my experience is women dominate the discourse on topics of vanity, narcicism, hair, nails, type stuff, while sound minded men speak of gods immutable laws., such as “pride always comes before the fall”, ect, ect,ect.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3
CajunQM January 18, 2011 at 13:21

“Lara
Just the other day I went to Bed, Bath and Beyond and bought new sheets for our bed. I also made the beds, did a little housework and put in a load of laundry. Because I believe I am entitled to some down time I watch an episode of Mistresses (a British show about 4 women in their 30s) and folded the clothes during it. Then I washed, seasoned and cooked a whole chicken, made macaroni and cheese and put one of those salads in a bag in a bowl. I don’t think most men want to do all this for themselves and a little gratitude would be nice.”

I’m a single parent father raising a high school daughter. I get up in the morning, make breakfast, make sure my daughter gets up, eat’s, get’s ready for school. I then go to work for 8 – 9 hours, maybe more! Come home fix supper, clean house. Weekends is laundry day (wash, dry, fold, etc). Plus in the summer yard work to do. My daughter drives now, so she can get to her various afterschool projects. Prior to that, I had to drive to all her events.

Do you want to match my work against yours? I left out a number of things I still have to do!

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 13:27

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Herbal Essence January 18, 2011 at 13:35

slwerner-”And yet, the plainly obvious reality is that more and more men are doing exactly that (substituting better fare for the Mistresses garbage, of course). And, one doesn’t hear those men complaining about having to take care of those things themselves.”

Yes. I can cook, clean, take care of clothes, host dinner parties, even interior decorate for goodness sakes. All without bitching and moaning too. What household duties are these women uniquely capable of? None.

Funny story: I had a first date once with a girl. We decided to cook meal items separately and meet at her house for dinner. (Her suggestion.) I cooked frog legs with garlic butter sauce & pineapple-coconut turnovers with vanilla cream topping. She made a cold pasta salad that was obviously from a powdered mix and cheap wine. Goooo Team Woman!

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3
Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 13:36

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Demosthenes XXI January 18, 2011 at 13:40

If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. Men need to see themselves as more than purely material beings. More, even, than purely sexual beings. Because if that’s all we are, we’ll never mean much more to women than a new car.

That statement in of itself should be at the core of the reformation of men. We as men need to embrace the idea that we need to reinvent ourselves to not only survive, but thrive in this new world that feminism has created. We need a new reformation that will teach us as men to value ourselves and to force the world to value us as individuals of value and worth.

All men need to come together and lift ourselves up, just as women make a habit of lifting each other up.

I’m personally inspired by those words; thank you.

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Sotyojit January 18, 2011 at 13:48

Sotyojit the difference between most men on this site and you and all bong commie parasites is, that they can be provider should they choose too. Commie Bongs aren’t even good a providing because they just leech off others.

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 13:52

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Gunn January 18, 2011 at 13:55

Satyajit Roy wrote:

I don’t know ANY man – black, white, Asian, whatever, who wants the entire financial burden of his family to rest on him. That is asking TOO MUCH of men in today’s economy.

If most Mormon men feel that way – they are way-out outliers. Way out.

Bullshit. Traditional indian families have lived like this for generations. Even today, an indian man would expect his wife to be a homemaker once their children were born. That is the quid pro quo of the indian model; a man could expect to be married to a suitable girl in return for which he provided financial security for his family.

This is changing in india, as feminist spreads its evil there too, but no indian man over 25 can claim that he was not brought up to bear the (full) financial responsibility for his family. If you’re younger than this, then perhaps you have been indoctrinated differently; I certainly know that indian girls today are brought up to emulate their dim-witted sisters in the west, willing to trade their feminine natures for some ridiculous fairy-tale notion of empowerment dreamt up by the cabal of witches at the heart of feminist think tanks.

Assuming you are over 25, I say: mangina quislings like you spewing bullshit such as this are merely expounding their own inadequacies at being men. If you’re under 20, then I feel sorry for you, but you need to kick to the curb your pedastalising ways quickly.

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Gunn January 18, 2011 at 14:07

In my religious culture it is cyclical, not linear, and we are not at odds with science.

Then my guess is that your religious culture is Jainism, as their creation myth includes a cyclical view of nature. In the golden age, humans are born with each man and each woman paired off from birth. Virtue prevails everywhere. Then comes the silver age, when some evil starts to come into the world, and humanity exhibits various deformities, that increase as the ages become less and less virtuous. I recall that this cycle falls to its very nadir when humans become little more than untermensch, subhuman creatures with only the barest flicker of human characteristics (iirc, we’re not at that stage yet according to the Jains, but we’re maybe only one age away from that low point) after which virtue comes back into the world step by step until a new golden age is reached.

I recall that the Jains consider their teachings to be highly scientific, with particulate explanations of karma and various other triangulations of their philosophy with modern day science.

Anyway, the thing with creation stories is that they all sound different, but at heart they’re all the same. They explain mans place in creation, and they usually warn of the dangers of losing sight of our true natures. Lessons that have been lost or even wilfully shredded by today’s prevailing culture. In the jain creation myths, one of the signs of depravity is that men and women are no longer perfect couples, destined to be soulmates from birth to death; they become degenerate and depraved, seeking immediate pleasure at the cost of their longer term spiritual health. I.e. pretty much what we see in today’s feminist inspired world.

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Type 5 January 18, 2011 at 14:33

DEI: This is one of the most interesting things I have read on here in a while. I think it’s important to remember that, as providers, everything else we desire from a woman will stem from us being good providers.

You stopped reading mid-article, didn’t you?

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 14:38

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Gunn January 18, 2011 at 15:01

@Satyajit Roy. Thats a fair point about the labour class in India. My post was referencing the upper middle classes of india and above (i.e. businessmen, high level professionals such as lawyers, doctors etc).

The truth about India is that if you look at the labour class, you’re really looking at a very backward, impoverished country. In such places, men and women both work as you say because of the poverty (and I suspect because the underlying family bonds are matriarchial in nature). However, there is still a huge distinction between what men do and what women do; whilst the women do carry around bricks etc as you mention, the men are doing far more demanding and hazardous jobs.

But I draw no conclusions from this, its like looking to africa for answers about culture and civilisation. Liberal myths aside, you won’t find any answers there, only matriarchial societies that visibly regress as their more patriarchal neighbours move forward. I suspect that the poorer classes in india may well follow a more matriarchial model, but I’ve never looked into whether there are studies on that.

However, and I accept that its a very elitist way of looking at things, if you look at the indians in the higher social classes, I stand by my assertion that men are (or rather were) brought up to be the financial providers for their families. My experience is UK based, where the indians are generally from such social classes (hence the stereotype of the indian doctor, or the indian businessman in this country) and is reflected in my comments. Its quite possible that indians in the US are from generally poorer backgrounds, I really don’t know.

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il128 January 18, 2011 at 15:04

Stickman,
Women still go to college for their Mrs. degree. My current SAHM got her BA and failed to snag a man in the process… Then she found me in graduate school. What a dumbass I was. She works part time in an Old Navy for the discount.

I am a mangina. I wish I had the balls to leave her and go through a divorce with four children in Mississippi. Child support here lasts until the child is 21 years old. Insane laws. Insane.

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SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 15:04

If our resident court jester SR thinks vaccination’s are a bad idea, that is all the validation I require to know they must be good.

But many thousands of children have died from this urban myth promulgated by Jenny McCarthy, an f’in V Jay!

An expert pediatricians review of the matter had this to say:

“As a result of the vaccines discovered in the 20th Century, parents and many healthcare providers of the 21st Century have limited or no experience with the devastating effects of diseases such as polio, smallpox or measles. Fear of disease has shifted to concerns regarding vaccine safety. Scientific evidence has refuted many of the misconceptions regarding vaccine safety; however, parental refusal of vaccines is increasing.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20450324

From an academic pediatrician in the peer reviewed journal “Expert Reviews in Vaccines”

The British study that invented this myth will probably be known one of the darkest days for modern medicine and was not wrong, it was fraud:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html

I think the likes of SR, Jenny McCarthy, and the fraudster Dr. Andrew Wakefield should be tried for the murders of all the children that have died from lack of vaccinations.

I am dead serious.

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Poester99 January 18, 2011 at 15:16

@Cranky

Withholding sex from your SO or wife is actually considered domestic violence and is against the law under some newly drafted laws, in a certain jurisdiction. Of course, the opposite is not true.

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Towgunner January 18, 2011 at 15:35

@ Gunn
“We need to get rid of big government, of taxation without representation (and particularly its converse, representation without taxation), and the entirety of the socialist mindset.”

My thoughts exactly, after all feminism is a socialist idea. I hear you on the rest – the real 800,000 lbs guerilla in the room is subsidizing women in this country. Alternatively, there is hope. womyn and all her proclaimed glory is artificial, just like her makeup, heels, teeth whiting, botox, plastic surgery. women are among the groups of people in history that advanced themselves only by bringing everyone else down.

To Gunn, I certainly agree the fight is economic… but and its cultural too. It’s the fight for the soul of this nation and the West. progressives had to painstakingly mislead, manipulate, cheat, steal, lie and murder in order to build an unnatural system over the last century. When you think about the way women now treat men, all these intellectual progressives really discovered has been known since recorded history, specifically, that absolute power corrupts and that people, male or female, are flawed and care only about their own survival. The good news is that we can hit the proverbial “default” switch by re-establishing our constitutional republic, which will utterly destroy this gynocentric society. I’m oversimplifying but…

In a constitutional republic, our educational system will be freed from the influence of progressives and feminist. No more mandates and directives that, among other things, seek to re-write history, ‘account’ for gender bias in tests and curricula, make and destroy certain sports teams. In many places recess will happen once again – critical outlet for growing boys. On a cultural level, boys can once again be boys and men can be men – that’s what feminist really fear. Our markets and businesses will be freed from the forced inclusion of females. No more EEOC, no more affirmative action, no more fruitless concepts like ‘proportionality’. I admit I hate working with most women but, I’m not alone, so do most men. In a constitutional republic if you start a business you can hire anyone you want women or men. Most men still start businesses and most men want to work with other men. On a taxation basis, our tax dollars will be decided upon through a representative process. And since a constitutional republic mandates a small government the taxes should be small. Once more, the funding for NGO’s such as the women’s media center even obama’s committee for women and girls are gone…no funding.

Allowing cultural and economic equilibrium to come about on its own may not seem to be the best thing for bull dykes, brainwashed addicts of greys antimony, but nature is not about you miss independent. The role of the sexes was set eons ago and one can gloss over it, attack it, pretend its not there, but it remains. If we restore our once constitutional republic the mean reversion will be relatively soft. Per Gunn’s pessimistic view the alternative is to let the system literally implode on itself, which is imminent. The outcome there is very uncertain, except to say that a soft landing is unlikely.

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 16:29

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Denis January 18, 2011 at 16:38

There’s some truth to that, but many women still enjoy having a man-slave they can rule over. If he makes any attempt to question her superiority, he is disposable.

Men don’t need women anymore either, unless they wish to become fathers and that is entirely at her discretion.

That’s the reality of modern technology and socialist governments.

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trashed January 18, 2011 at 16:40

Now let’s see.
The other day as a male,
I went to my 24 hr walmart,
Bought some pre-cooked, roasted garlic chicken,and fresh cut fruit and veggies
Took it out to my fat R.V.in the parking lot and feasted,
Did a little house cleaning and organizing,
But left the bed alone, scambled,
Watched some porn
Watched some u-tude videos,
Went back into walmart
Bought todays clean clothes (threw yesterdays dirty clothes in the trash cause its cheaper and easier to just buy new stuff than waste my time choring)
Drove across the street to my 24 hr gym, hung out with my buds for 4-6 hrs.
Left the gym, went to my rented mini-storage, where my 64 t-bird convertable is housed.
Tinkered around with that for a while…
Went back to the gym for a dip in the pool and a sit in the sauna,
Left the gym, for the house in the parking lot, (no womb tomb, or womb tomb housing expenses or womb tomb taxes or even a threat of such burdens women automatically bring. )
And here I am. With you, online…
Happiness, wealth, options gallor.
How? First, I take care of those, who take care of me ! ( and that would be , me )
Without any wom(b)men or their babymaybe burdens in tow ( other than waitresses or store clerks )
Funny…I never feel bored or alone. Never !
I am attractive in appearance, but completely unattractive to women lifestyle-wise and I deliberately aim for such, as a filter (of sorts ) to control the black hole-suitors from cross hairing me.
Works splendidly.
I am what you could call, “Insulated from women”…
Not isolated. But either way does me fine !
I will soon start building by my own skill, a prefab warehouse for my soon to be welcomed, surrogated children .
( I think its best for the children to have an indoor playground that’s climate controlled and weather proof and snoopy bitch proof.
I and my family /friends will provide for my motherless children as well or realistically, better than a single mother ever could hers.
How?
I a male.
Males produce and create everything. ( including your titty tightners, your kotex,perfumes,beauty products, stiletto heels, that bed you made up, the stores you shopped, the chicken you ate, the oven you used, the T.V. you watched, even the misandic shows on them, that rot your view of males.
Might need a women?
Brave new world coming round for valueless women and their valueless chilvarious boot licking boymen.( mommy men )
The best Men are the creative, inventive, discomfort solving and are basically the sole productive sex in humanity…
Not Women.
Your sex is merely the critical and Re-productive black holes…( a copier, if you will ) that can’t get enough money, enough power, enough control, enough house, enough car,etc, etc, etc,,,,
Anytime your sex gives something, its never selfless, there seems to always be some hidden agenda of future leverage in the shaddows. ( a black hole, that sucks in, everything in its path, for …unavailable… self-fulfilment. The unsuspecting experience rapid demise ! And in the same vain, you do manage to eak out a little gratitude and give little or something back, its never without great pain or guilt trip to those receiving …think birth )
Your legal burocracies have been nothing but a burden to us as males. We are very well on the way to create, invent, discover, employ alternative approaches and legal methods and techniques around your burdenful sex, and hopefully on the way to canceling out your sexes, effect on society.
The real legal and financial burdens youall have become to us smart men, are no longer, “a must” that has to be tolerated !
Its already happening and a greater frequency as each internet day passes.
Surrogatcy is the family guys new and improved approach to safe,predictable and dramaless family life and the eventual freedom from other misandric men known as chilvarist senators/judges/lawyers that follows women
! the female inclusive, traditional entrapping-marriage will fade like patriarchy, to arise a new “optional male centered model for human caring and reproduction. ( think: SIR. ELTON JOHN AND SURROGATED CHILD )
Come to think of it, after menapause, what productive or reproductive value is there in a female ?
Companionship ?
A distant-second best to that of a dog ?
( dogs can be bitches too, but without the risk of lawyers and courts, and deprivity you all bring in tow to the arena of a mans life)
At least old men can still reproduce, produce,create, discover,solve, invent, entertain and omni-contribute to all …equally…not selfishly ,
But women…
not so much.

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trashed January 18, 2011 at 16:49

That last post was aimed at women in general, Laura

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crella January 18, 2011 at 16:57

Twenty minutes total time, max. A couple of months ago, I made fettuccine Alfredo, Caesar salad, and breadsticks for 40 people, and didn’t expect a trophy.

That sounds like fun! Women like ‘Lara’ (God knows there are enough of them out there) don’t realize that men can do just about anything they put their minds to, and they don’t whine about it, don’t see it as a ‘burden’. Most famous chefs are men, the idea that men can’t cook is ridiculous.

The Alfredo recipe a good one-it was here that you posted it, wasn’t it (hint to everybody else-go look up that recipe!)

the prepping, seasoning, and roasting of a whole chicken is pathetically out of the culinary reach of many women today.

Damned sad, isn’t it? It sounds as if we have a good number of accomplished cooks on this thread, it’s quickly becoming a lost art, it makes me happy to see people who know how important a good meal is, and how to prepare it.

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crella January 18, 2011 at 17:11

Gunn, have you ever been to India? The labor class has always been composed of both men and women. People are shocked when they see pregnant women and little girls carrying bricks on their heads at constructions sites. These women and children did not “fight for the right” to be construction workers, with Feminists backing them.

T’was ever thus. I’ve often thought that women laborers must have thought the 60s feminists were nuts. ‘The right to work’. Everybody’s always had the right to work, some people just didn’t have the need.

I think it’s only American women who think they deserve fanfare for doing what you’re supposed to do anyway. Working, caring for your family. Caring for your family should be it’s own reward. Japanese mothers do a lot more than many American mothers I know, but don’t crow about it or expect rewards. I also see women working as carpenters, dump truck drivers, gardeners (the gardeners who cut our trees once a year are a couple, and she does her fair share of cutting and hauling, no whining to get a lighter workload), Takkyubin delivery (our UPS) and other difficult jobs here, but never once have I ever seen media fanfare about ‘the first woman dump truck driver, carpenter’ etc. They just do the jobs they want to! American women want a gold star for opening bags of salad…..:-D

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Anonymous age 68 January 18, 2011 at 17:12

Actually, single dad, if you look, you will see there is evidence that Gardasil is bad for some people Gardasil, not all vaccinations. Gardasil has problems. You jumped to a mistaken conclusion that he was talking about all vaccinations, and when I read it I knew well what he was talking about because I have seen the literature on Gardasil.

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W.F. Price January 18, 2011 at 17:38

Even so, it is my homeland and I love it – for its cultural vibrancy more than anything else.

-SR

“vibrancy.” lol. You must be paying too much attention to West Coast media. Where are you, the valley?

“Vibrant” is actually code for the barrio and other places upper middle class whites frequently praise but avoid. When you hear white people say some neighborhood is “vibrant,” what they mean is “these people are minorities that I support politically because they might join me in voting against the rednecks, but I’m scared shitless of the place.”

I’d suggest you use other terms such as ‘cultural depth’ and ‘rich tradition,’ but unfortunately West Coast white folks are culturally very, very shallow, and as one of them I freely admit that, although I’d like to change it if I can.

And our family very generously pays our domestic help, because we were there at one time, we know what its like.

I always paid the help well in China — she was a real bulldog and backed me up where it counted. It was strictly business, and she did her job well. I’ve never been too comfortable with class differences, so she was more like a contractor for me, and I certainly helped her get a good deal more work besides the paltry eight or so hours a week she spent helping me out, which was probably more than I needed in any event.

SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 17:59

@ Anon 68

In the US 12,200 women will get cervical cancer each year and 4,200 deaths per year. That’s dead women each and every year and just in the US:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/types/cervical

World wide:

500,000 new cases per year and 250,000 deaths:

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/cancers/en/index.html

In Australia, published in 2010 of 5.8 mill vaccinations, 1384 complications or 0.0024%:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20719221

I will have to do some more work to find out the exact number of serious complications, however all medical publications I reviewed indicated that the complication rate versus benefit was worth it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19283255

Unless you have any data to indicate otherwise we are doing the population a great disservice by denigrating a vaccine that could potentially save hundreds of millions of lives each and every year.

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 18:01

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fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 18:02

I think it is mostly hardwired and it would be utopian to think that this mindset, both in males and females, can be completely changed.

Hardwired… for men to be providers?!? In hunter gathering societies, most of human evolution, women gathered and actually provided which would often be the mainstay of the group. I’m sure men had alot to offer to the society including their hunting/meat (not usually the mainstay) and their inventive tool making skills. Not only are men more creative but they seem to take more risks that may benefit a society which seems to be a more than equitable trade.

Did you think men were too stupid to have the women do something productive when men had such useful skills and endeavours? Did you think men would invent, take the risks, and do longer labour? In the past alot if production came out of monotonous gathering and in village work. We didn’t have factories or stock brokers back then.

Now days the home is extremely unproductive; its just a drain and a housewife is only provided for. That is unless you think it absolutely crucial to have your wife sew the button that fell off your jacket back on. I’m not saying men and women aren’t expected to take on different roles, they are, but it is wrong to think women aren’t supposed to do real productive work, even if it is monotonous.

WF said in one of his recent articles that In some rising countries, in Asia I think, they are putting the women to work in factories where they actually are usefully. We now have our women working again we just need to make sure their not doing bullshit paper pushing provided by the productivity of others.

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 18:04

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anonymous January 18, 2011 at 18:27

Satyajit Roy,

Who gives a fuck? It’s not like women in North America weren’t doing exactly the same things 100 years ago.

You’re merely retelling of us of our own society a century ago, when yes, women worked their arses off, which is why the birthrates were higher, because we could find the wetspot without throwing flour on their hideous, beached, carcasses – and, they were too busy chopping wood, carrying water, cooking and churning butter, and laying down rose petals upon the bed before performing gratuitous amounts of oral lovin’ on their husbands.

Well, so I’ve been told!

Indian people are some of the most morally racist people on the planet that I’ve encountered… but then again, there’s that whole caste system based upon discrimination… so, you know. Yet, there are no shortages of Indians telling whitey that he is inferior to yet another culture that he has been dominating for centuries.

When did the world become so fucked that up means down, west means east, and conquered peoples are in fact the superior ones?

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Laura Grace Robins January 18, 2011 at 18:52

“If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. Men need to see themselves as more than purely material beings. More, even, than purely sexual beings. Because if that’s all we are, we’ll never mean much more to women than a new car. ”

I think this is exactly the thing that escapes many of those on the “men must be providers” side. Men have to find a way to survive and be needed in an every changing culture. Survival of the fittest. Those who continue to rely on purely their provider skills to get a woman, will loose. Women aren’t wooed by a man’s middle class salary anymore, becuase all too often their salary is the same or greater. She thinks, “whooppe, so you make money….so do I. Show me something I don’t have”. Once the rift is prepared, then more traditional roles may naturally fall back in line.

Part of the spiritual revolution needs to be a realization from women that men are not inferior to them on spiritual matters. Men being spiritual leaders will go a long way in keeping women needing men. Women can provide for themselves just fine, but spiritual guidance is something we all and especially women crave. Wasn’t it in the Eat, Pray, Love book that the woman fell for her Hindu guru or something?

In short, seeing men as providers is how so many have abused the court system and received big pay outs. Perhaps if they saw men as spiritual beings first and not an ATM, they would think twice when they take them to court. There is a lot of emphasis from modern women about how we are all humans and need to respect each other for being such; well then, treat your man like a human and consider his feelings/needs before you take all he has.

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 19:02

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Lara January 18, 2011 at 19:08

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codebuster January 18, 2011 at 19:17

This post by Lara deserved a thumbs up for the truths it projects about the nature of Woman:

Don’t blame women for preferring someone who is hard working and willing to provide for them. Having some useless pretty boy dragging around your house is only going to be pleasurable for so long.

“Responsible women” [sic] will consider even a complete idiot so long as he fits their interpretation of “provider”. He could be a throw-back in the gene pool, and be as ordinary as a hatfull of bricks, but if he is “financially secure” this is often all it takes.

“Hard working and willing to provide for them”… in this age of affirmative action where women have no excuse to not pay their own way? “Sucker” is a better word.

“Useless pretty boy”… perhaps Lara would prefer an exciting thugly?

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anonymous January 18, 2011 at 19:36

@ Laura Grace Robbins,

Perhaps men should just stop regarding women as their “equals” and start looking at them as children who constantly push “jovial” boundaries to their nonsense and need defined limits for their destructive behaviours?

I don’t want women back in the kitchen.

But I do want men viewing them as the out of control children they are.

Children used to work in the goldmines, and so, logically, can women!

I don’t know what the So-Cons are advocating for. “Sure, they’re miserable backstabbers looking to fuck you over nine ways to Sunday, BUT IT”S YOUR DUTY TO LOVE THEM.”

Fuck that.

Churn your own butter, bitches.

I’ve got better things to do.

Let humans die, if this is our utmost glory.

Retch.

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Ronin January 18, 2011 at 19:39

@Stickman January 18, 2011 at 12:01
“i will say this for the chick in the article 30+ years a virgin yet still dates ill bet she gives a mean handjob!”

She’s a virgin because no cockas ever pierced her goryhole besides buthexx, handjob, blowjob, footjob etc. dont count. Dont ever underestimate the hamster’s power of rationalization my friends.

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fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 20:11

“Wasn’t it in the Eat, Pray, Love book that the woman fell for her Hindu guru or something?”

LOL, who from here do you think watched that?

“Women can provide for themselves just fine, but spiritual guidance is something we all and especially women crave.”

I’m not about to trade one provider role for another. If that happens nothing has changed for the better. In fact men have for a long time provides women wealth and emotional support. So men need to change and adapt? That’s true, but not to win over women. Men need to be asking themselves what do women offer us.

IMO its not actually men who became useless at about the fifties. We’re told strength became less important and blah blah blah, but whose work really became useless. The answer is housework. Men on the other hand were basically supposed to continue their work. (Its sad that some men are too attached to the idea of giving away their money). I have some more related theories on this subject but I wont get into it.

Even if men didn’t exactly produce the mainstay For society like many primitive hunter gathering societies I don’t see in the least bit his that would be an insult to men. Like I said before men are more creative/inventive along with other unique qualities which is and has always been invaluable to the development of society. In essence I’d argue that even when men work less hours than their total contributiin is just as valuable; I’m saying that men’s work is efficient. The only reason to have an identity crisis is when you are the only one really working in the relationship and you actually end up giving your spouse more money than yourself. How on earth do you justify that?

(Realistically men need to make as much money as women since you can’t trust them to provide)

There’s no question in my mind that men have plenty to offer without being the breadwinner and if you still have doubts you really should be asking yourself What women have to offer.

Btw Laura, I like some of what you say but I strongly disagree that the pressure is on men or that they need to make some new grand gesture to women. Do you think women are better than men or that men need women more than women need men… I think not. Many men just need to lose this unnatural attachment to “provider”.

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Herbal Essence January 18, 2011 at 20:14

Laura Grace- “Women can provide for themselves just fine, but spiritual guidance is something we all and especially women crave.”

Laura, I appreciate your comment and others you’ve posted here on the spearhead. You seem like a thoughtful person.

However, I strongly disagree with your suggestion that men should morph from $$$ providers into spiritual partners. I’ve been stuck into that role several times in the past and it is not a good place to be. Having a girlfriend continually share her problems with me and look to me for pronouncements from On High puts way too much responsibility on my shoulders. Especially when we’re just dating or going steady. And it quickly develops into dependency too. Pretty soon women would start hitting me up for guru-talk while I’m at work or at 3 in the morning. Also, they would occasionally get really angry at me if my insight didn’t somehow conform to their worldview. Well excuse me, but I thought you wanted advice not an echo chamber.
I could go on and on about my experiences, but to make a long story short, if a woman ever wants me to be a guru or a life coach again, I’m going to charge by the hour for it. Because it certainly isn’t productive to a mutually beneficial relationship.

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Satyajit Roy January 18, 2011 at 20:16

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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fondueguy January 18, 2011 at 20:26

“I think Laura has a really good comment. Women do look to men for guidance. Some of the best advice in life I received was from men and also some of the people I respect the most are men.”

So do kids and schoolchildren. I’ve been seeing more and more studies on the wide reaching value of men. By effects you could say men are leaders (working with adults), teachers (working with children), and very supportive/nurturing in raising their own kids.

All of which I linked at January 18, 2011 at 10:06

I really don’t see why the tone is that men need to struggle to find value in themselves.

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anonymous January 18, 2011 at 20:37

Women are on their own.

Good luck, toots!

Look to the stars for guidance – that’s all the help from males you deserve.

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Twenty January 18, 2011 at 21:56

@Rebel

Men and women no longer need one another and that’s the key to the whole story.

We are entering a brand new and exciting era: rather than being sheep, people can, at long last, be entirely free from obligations, limitations and endless responsibilities. In other words: free from slavery.

Women can take care of themselves now, and of their kids, too. This is our cue: the golden cage door is… wide open. Live it up!

As we progress toward reproductive independance, you will see that men and women are indeed quite independant from one another.

I think this is a necessary step if mankind is to continue on the road to progress.

I do not believe that any society based on these principles can survive, due to the immutable facts that people age and die and must be replaced by their children. Men and women do “need one another” if they are to produce and rear the next generation to people their society.

It’s all well and good to refuse to take on the burdens of reproducing one’s self — and I’m not saying here that one has an obligation to do otherwise — but whoever inherits the future, it won’t be the children of people who take that view.

The “road to progress” you lay out leads to an uninhabited wasteland. Which isn’t to say we aren’t on it.

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Anonymous January 18, 2011 at 22:14

Lara wrote: “Just the other day I went to Bed, Bath and Beyond and bought new sheets for our bed. I also made the beds, did a little housework and put in a load of laundry. Because I believe I am entitled to some down time I watch an episode of Mistresses (a British show about 4 women in their 30s) and folded the clothes during it. Then I washed, seasoned and cooked a whole chicken, made macaroni and cheese and put one of those salads in a bag in a bowl. I don’t think most men want to do all this for themselves and a little gratitude would be nice.”

Dumbest shit I ever read on here.

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Robert January 18, 2011 at 23:20

Hestia January 18, 2011 at 11:41
@zed-except we know that “Lara” is really a man doing a caricature of today’s useless woman – and doing an excellent job of it!)
Actually “Lara” made one critical flaw with today’s trolling job: the prepping, seasoning, and roasting of a whole chicken is pathetically out of the culinary reach of many women today. At least “Lara” didn’t claim to truss the chicken, turn the leftovers into chicken salad for sandwiches, and then make stock out of the carcass. Had that been the case “Lara’s” cover would have really been blown.

You noticed that too? Of course lara forgot to add cucumbers, radishes other vegetables to the salad and, unless one is vegetarian, meat to the salad. I have seen those salads in bags. Their ok but lacking in substance.

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codebuster January 19, 2011 at 00:11

Within the context of this article, do we now realize how criminally insane affirmative action is? Men, for whom the very thing that matters most (indeed, the only thing that gives men value) – their provider role – are denied equal opportunity in favor of women, for whom working is a hobby, something you do if you like, something you do if your fancy takes you, something to while away the hours.

Now some of the “traditionals” among us may scoff at equal opportunity in any form. I personally have no problem with equal opportunity provided that market forces rule, and that the State does not tweak anything in favor of women by way of incentives and quotas. But this is the point… it’s all deliberately rigged in favor of women who don’t care to invest in their careers anywhere near to the same extent that men do. Market forces will always place the responsibility on men to fill the provider role.

Men who do not meet their provider obligations don’t matter to women. They are invisible to women. They are without identity or purpose. To annihilate men’s purpose in this way in favor of women’s arbitrary indulgences is bizarre. It’s every bit as bizarre as what’s happening to men in the Family Courts. Doesn’t this criminally insane affirmative action have a sunset clause? Isn’t anyone going to be held to account by way of a lynching once all this bullshit passes?

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Porky D. January 19, 2011 at 00:29

“What of love?” I asked. “What of intimacy and partnership and making a run at the world together?”

See, Mormons do have a sense of humor after all!

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 03:40

“What of love?” I asked. “What of intimacy and partnership and making a run at the world together?”

This is how delusional women are. They expect us to believe this shit.

Any man who has listened to ANY mans story about the treachery of women in the divorce court and understood the fact that ALL THE OTHER WOMEN SUPPORT THAT TREACHERY knows ALL ABOUT ‘the love of a woman’.

It doesn’t exist.

IT IS A LIE.

And that the so called ‘good women’ like Hestia, Thag, Dr. Helen, Christina Hoff Summers, Phyliss Schafley, Eriz Pizzy are NOT speaking out strongly about the crimes, the lies, the hypocrisy of women should tell every young man everything he needs to know. Not ever the so called ‘BEST of the BEST’ women will speak the ‘unspeakable’.

That women are natural born liars and hypocrites who manipulate men into being their personal slaves. The backlash that is coming is going to be REAL bad. GOOD!

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 03:57

“Because if that’s all we are, we’ll never mean much more to women than a new car.”

Welmer. If you think that a man ever meant anything more to a woman than a new car you have slipped for a second. To women men have only EVER been their personal slaves, to be manipulated to provide for HER and HER children. This was the case because it HAD to be the case. I covered this in my ‘Woolly Mammoth’ story. The old men of the tribe HAD to make the young men produce food far beyond their own needs to also provide for the old men, women and children.
http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/58/threadid/577/scope/posts/Default.aspx

One of the seminal moments of my life was when I found my ex had lied to my face, (not to mention her fathers face) about being divorced when we started our relationship as family friends in 1984. In telling that lie and maintaining that lie for 23 years she made it clear to me that I was ‘targeted’ for ‘slavery’ for her and HER children. It’s a BIG shit sandwhich to eat. That OTHER women do not condemn her for doing this and take off her the proceeds of this deception means they AGREE to this practice. This is key to understand.

ALL the women are in on the marriage scam. No exceptions. I will call any woman who tries to tell me she is NOT in on the marriage scam a liar to her face. Period.

Women do not care about men…AT ALL. Never did. Never will. They care about what the man provides. Period.

Men want remedy? Well I’ve published it. Whether men use that remedy or not is really up to them. The FIRST thing that has to happen is ‘cut off what men provide without the man’. Women are gorging themselves stupid pretty much purely on the income taxes of men. Answer to problem? Stop paying income taxes. REAL SIMPLE.

Here is a question for men to consider. In Gullag Achipelligo Solzenischten (I could never spell his name) spoke of how men refused to attack or kill the police when they came to the door. So 2,000 ‘police’ terrorised a population of 2 million or so in St. PetersBerg I think it was…can’t remember. He asked the question. What would have happened if we met those police with a pitchfork or anything that came to hand? How many of them would want to be the first through that front door?

The IRS and the ‘police’ are the new terrorists. What would happen if disgruntled men made targets of them and made it clear to them that stealing from them is not ok? Men outnumber these criminal scumbags 1000 to 1 or even more. Any man who is not willing to join into a small group who make oath to defend each others rights on pain of death? Any man who is not willing to take up arms to defend his rights and the rights of those of his closest allies? That man deserves his slavery. Period. When the judges, magistrates, lawyers, politicians, IRS and the police realise the force THEY have been exerted will be directed BACK AT THEM? You might see a change or two.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 04:12

This is a message I can get behind: “Don’t protect or provide for women. Find another worthwhile quest for your life.”

I have made the public statement, to be provocative, many times. And that is: “If I saw a woman being raped, assaulted, or otherwise harmed in the street I would not help her if I thought she was a western woman.”

Women HATE on me for saying that. I let them spew their hatred for a bit. Then I reflect back that is EXACTLY what women do to men being destroyed in the family courts and I label them the liars and hypocrites they are. Then, as usual, they get MORE upset. They are unwilling to accept that they are liars and hypocrites because that is all they are. They can’t rebut the truth so they just get ‘more upset’ and call on the mangina men to defend them.

Just as I said the other day about that loser mangina who helped that congress woman in Arizona. That man is equivalent of a Jew helping a Nazi officer who is injured. A Nazi who would be willing to throw him in the gas oven the next day. Where is the ‘heroism’ in assisting someone who hates you and would do you harm at first opportunity. Has that congresswoman EVERY spoken out about the crimes women are committing against men? Don’t make me laugh.

I, personally, will not help a woman who is having a crime committed against her ANY MORE than women helped me when I was having crimes committed against me. Which was NOT AT ALL. Women HATE on me for saying that. That would be those ‘equal, liberated, empowered, grrrrls’ you keep reading about. They want their unpaid body guards. They also want carte blanch to commit crimes against them.

I would LOVE to see articles written by men to call on ALL MEN to BOYCOTT and REFUSE to be the ‘unpaid body guards’ for women. We have NO LAWFUL OBLIGATION to risk our lives on the scene of a crime to protect women. NONE AT ALL.

MEN who stand by and allow crimes to be committed by women against men? I would LOVE to see men label ALL MEN who do so as TRAITORS and MANGINA MEN who are beneath contempt.

Women claim they are ‘equal’? Let them defend themselves in the street. As soon as the few bad men out there feel confident that the ‘nearest man’ will NOT come to the aid of a woman he will rape, rob or kill her as soon as look at her. If you don’t believe that? Go visit south africa. One of the most dangerous places on earth.

Women are smaller and weaker than men. They are not ‘equal’ in any way shape or form. It is about time they accepted this fact. If they can not accept the truth. Then maybe the best way to deal with them is to have them be shown the truth first hand. In the street.

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Lara January 19, 2011 at 04:25

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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DirkJohanson January 19, 2011 at 04:25

I understand and agree with the article, but as a payah who loves hookers, there is another issue: do virgins even clean their vaginas?

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DirkJohanson January 19, 2011 at 04:27

I meant to write “bother to even clean their vaginas?”

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DirkJohanson January 19, 2011 at 04:34

Ok. I actually meant “even bother to clean …”

Pardon. My cunty boss just changed my hours to harass me – its way too early for me to be writing, let alone funny.

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codebuster January 19, 2011 at 04:43

HE, there is more to the spirituality that Laura Grace is suggesting than just being a nurse-maid to the helpless. Some of her suggestions, though, could do with a bit of beefing up…

Those who continue to rely on purely their provider skills to get a woman, will loose.

And those who continue to give a flying toss what women think will lose the most.

Women aren’t wooed by a man’s middle class salary anymore, becuase all too often their salary is the same or greater. She thinks, “whooppe, so you make money….so do I. Show me something I don’t have”.

My response would be, “whoopee, so you offer sex… Show me something that I value.” [hint - I do not value a slag who's been around the block a number of times]

Once the rift is prepared, then more traditional roles may naturally fall back in line.

A spiritual man does not care for traditional roles. He realizes that the universe is far too big a place to worry about such mundain, earthly things.

Part of the spiritual revolution needs to be a realization from women that men are not inferior to them on spiritual matters.

ahem… not quite. The real spiritual revolution would be the realization that spirituality, as a quest for truth, is the province, first and foremost, of men. Truth is quite secondary to women, whose ultimate priority is continuity and belonging (nurturing, supporting). The real revolution would include the realization that spirituality is, at heart, quite antithetical to the female condition. “Me, me, me, I need, I want, I hurt” does not reflect a spiritual constitution.

Men being spiritual leaders will go a long way in keeping women needing men.

Spiritual men do not care whether or not self-indulgent, narcissistic women need them.

Women can provide for themselves just fine

Not without affirmative action they can’t.

but spiritual guidance is something we all and especially women crave.

No, women do not crave spiritual guidance. What they crave is belonging – belonging to something larger than themselves – and belonging implies the willingness to be led. Whom a woman chooses to guide her provides the basis upon which she should be judged. If a man does not care about a woman’s past, if he does not value virtue, then usually he gets what he deserves.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 05:08

il128 January 18, 2011 at 15:04
“I am a mangina. I wish I had the balls to leave her and go through a divorce with four children in Mississippi. Child support here lasts until the child is 21 years old. Insane laws. Insane.”

il128,
then I recommend you rescind your consent to be subject to this legislation and kick the guvment out of your marriage. If you want to leave? You can leave. I recommend you do it lawfully. Here is everything you need.
http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/58/scope/threads/Default.aspx

SingleDad January 18, 2011 at 15:04
“As a result of the vaccines discovered in the 20th Century”

SD. A broken clock is correct twice a day. The idiot happens to be correct on this point. Vaccines are VERY BAD FOR YOU. The drop in these diseases was NOT associated with vaccines and this has been proven over and over again. The drop in diseases was the result of clean water, sewerage and better food production and delivery.

Vaccines are being used to attack the immune systems of people so as to shorten their lifespans. Period. Try reading this book. http://www.policestateplanning.com. In particular, chapter 14. Vaccines are part of the genocide program being run world wide.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 05:10

Hestia January 18, 2011 at 11:41
“The prepping, seasoning, and roasting of a whole chicken is pathetically out of the culinary reach of many women today.”

It sure is. I was in Moscow a couple of years ago working. The client brought us food from the employee cafateria. The two guys I was with couldn’t eat it. So I had two portions of lunch and woofed it down. One of the guys knew what was going on but the second westerner just looked in stunned silence as I ate this food. He did not know me. In the end he could not help himself. He had to ask how I could eat it. I told him that this meal was EASILY better than most meals my wife made for me.

Remember Hestia. I am the man who, when working in the massive recession of 93 to save my job as the sole provider of a family of 6, with a new house and big mortgage, had his wife feed his food to the dog to ‘punish’ me for ‘working too hard’ and ‘not being home early enough’. A woman I told that to recently? She was shocked to the bone. She could see by my face it was true. And she said “If I had a husband like you I would wash his feet and kiss them every night when he came home for working so hard for me and our children. Husbands like you don’t exist any more.” Hhhmmm. I wonder why?

As far as cooking. My mum and my grandmothers made sure ALL us boys could cook. My ex used to try and denigrate me in company by telling people “peter is totally hopeless around the house. If he didn’t have me to look after him he’d starve to death and have no clean clothes.” She would say this despite the fact that I did quite fine living away from home about 10 months of the year while we were based out of Ireland. I would take her to task about this and tell her that this was in no way ‘honour thy husband’ to which she would reply “well I am not christian any more so I don’t have to bow and scrape to you.” Hhhmmmm.

This is what young men have to look forward to. Bad food, abuse, no sex, and slavery. Gee. Where do I sign up again?

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 05:23

Laura Grace Robins January 18, 2011 at 18:52
“Men have to find a way to survive and be needed in an every changing culture. Survival of the fittest. Those who continue to rely on purely their provider skills to get a woman, will loose.”

Laura,
this statement is mind-bogglingly ignorant. You did yourself something of a dis-service in making it. You know how a man can be ‘needed’ by a woman? He PROTECTS her from other men. And he tells her he will beat the shit out of her if she does not do as she is told. The ONLY reason this is not how men are ‘needed’ at the moment is because OTHER men protect a woman in that situation.

Well? What do you think is going to happen when the men attack the mangina men who protect women who are NOT THEIR WOMEN? And if you think this is not coming? I have one word for you. Russia. My Eastern European lady friends tell me that if a man beats up a woman and she calls the cops the cops will say ‘best not to aggravate him then’. End of story. The cops will NOT interfere because they know that in MOST cases the woman deserved the beating and they ALSO know to interfere is to put their lives at risk for a measly salary.

You think that attitude is not coming back to the west? Do you honestly think that cops are going to walk into a mans house and try and arrest him on the lie of a woman when they know full well that man will kill them for doing so? Which is EXACTLY what happens in Russia. Nope.

Women NEED men for protection from OTHER MEN. And the ONLY way they get that protection is to be considered the property of the man. Men will protect THEIR property. Chivalry was the contract between men to protect each others property from the few bad men there were. Now? Women have taken that social contract for their protection and turned it willingly against men to destroy them. Men are not ‘fighting back’ yet. But they will….as they did in Russia.

We are in the transition period. But we are CERTAINLY headed towards the russian model of life. I can see it here in Germany how we are ‘half way there’. Women NEED men. Men do NOT need women. Period. In Germany it is not the men bitching about the women. The men have moved on. It is the women bitching about the men.

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Sir_Chancealot January 19, 2011 at 06:15

Just another psychotic bitch, nothing new here. Proof?

Here is what she says: “But what could be more fun than taking a 34-year-old virgin to a shop selling everything from art-glass dildos to vibrating nipple clamps? And what could be funnier than watching said virgin earnestly study each product’s list of features for water resistance, battery life, noise factor, shape, size and heft? ”

Then later: “The leftovers (i.e., non-married men) were left over: …porn-addicted virgins …”

LOL. Dumb bitch.

She hasn’t had a man because she is broken in ways that she can’t even see.

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Black January 19, 2011 at 06:17

I am an alpha type and have 3 kids, I slipped into betatude while settling down with the mom. Cause that is what she wanted, SHE left! Boy did I learn, I was fortunate to not marry (fellas keep this card in your pocket). No I just pay support but she has always run me down.

Here is my feelings, women mke u feel you are worthless if u don’t pay what they want you to pay, so basically judge you monetarily. I am in my mid thirties, and have started over 5 businesses and been able to support myself, the kids and friends at times. And she can make me feel like a deadbeat cause I don’t want to give her monetarily what she wants. This mindset sucks cause it does get to me!

But this is how I feel now, I want to raise my kids and I can do it a lot cheaper than these media brainwashed women who swear they are doing the right thing. I have setup my lifestyle to live on minimal expenses, they set a certain lifestyle for themselves and if you can’t pay for it, you are useless! How about stop complaining and give the kids to the dads.

So i will never impregnate an American women again! If you want kids, go to a thirld world country and have. A child with a true feminine women, my $$ would go a lot further and I can chose the best lifestyle for my child.

At least my kids know daddy is an alpha and wont put up with that crap, my dad turned into a beta and my mother left him, and is still bitter to this day. Actually she was one of the women who suggested my kids mom leave me cause I would not marry, GO FIGURE!

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mgtow January 19, 2011 at 06:27

Oooh, a urinal claiming that she has not served any man (yet).

What does she want for that – a cookie? A medal?

We American men are providers. We are breadwinners. That’s our role. Take it away, and we have nothing to offer.

I am not an American, but this statement is an affront to all men. This statement is only true to men with a slave mentality, whose myopic vision of life is to be an obedient beast of burden and a good provider to some broad and the kids she squirts out.

Life is so much more than that!

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mgtow January 19, 2011 at 06:56

Don’t blame women for preferring someone who is hard working and willing to provide for them. Having some useless pretty boy dragging around your house is only going to be pleasurable for so long.

This pretty boy makes good money, and you ladies can jolly well go settle down with your preferred choice – Mr. good provider husband.

Because I will not marry, provide for some useless woman, and if so inclined, I am more than happy to, and capable of:

1) Adding to your dick count before your marriage.
2) Cuckolding your ‘I love him, but I’m not in love with him’ husband when your NCU strikes.

Poor husband. What is he? Beast of burden. Sperm donor. Walking ATM. Mr Fix-it. Emotional tampon. Errand boy. And he sincerely thinks he has found a good wife, who’s so good for him to slog away his life at the workplace for. IF only he knew.

Oh, and once the providing by the husband has stagnated because he fell on hard times, #2′s NCU will strike, and strike fast. Only this time she doesn’t even try be clandestine about the affair.

You see, a woman never loves a man. She only loves what he can provide. Why even bound yourself to a contract with such a creature? Avoid marriage.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 07:08

Husband Store
A store that sells new husbands has opened in New York City , where a
woman may go to choose a husband. Among the instructions at the entrance is a description of how the store operates:

You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the value of
the products increase as the shopper ascends the flights. The shopper may
choose any item from a particular floor, or may choose to go up to the next
floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the building!

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband. On the first
floor the sign on the door reads:

Floor 1 – These men Have Jobs
She is intrigued, but continues to the second floor, where the sign reads:

Floor 2 – These men Have Jobs and Love Kids.
‘That’s nice,’ she thinks, ‘but I want more.’
So she continues upward. The third floor sign reads:

Floor 3 – These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, and are Extremely Good Looking.
‘Wow,’ she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.
She goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads:

Floor 4 – These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and Help With Housework.
‘Oh, mercy me!’ she exclaims, ‘I can hardly stand it!’
Still, she goes to the fifth floor and the sign reads:

Floor 5 – These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, Help
with Housework, and Have a Strong Romantic Streak.
She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the sixth floor, where the sign
reads:

Floor 6 – You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor. There are no men on
this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to
please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

PLEASE NOTE:
To avoid gender bias charges, the store’s owner opened a New Wives store
just across the street.

The first floor has wives that love sex.

The second floor has wives that love sex and have money and like beer

The third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors have never been visited

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 19, 2011 at 07:27

mgtow January 19, 2011 at 06:56
You see, a woman never loves a man. She only loves what he can provide. Why even bound yourself to a contract with such a creature? Avoid marriage.

Quoted for Truth. Us older men are obliged to present this message to the young lads to give them a fighting chance. If they go and marry some shrew after being told this over and over again? Well. That is HIS problem then.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 08:24

“Actually “Lara” made one critical flaw with today’s trolling job: the prepping, seasoning, and roasting of a whole chicken is pathetically out of the culinary reach of many women today. At least “Lara” didn’t claim to truss the chicken, turn the leftovers into chicken salad for sandwiches, and then make stock out of the carcass. Had that been the case “Lara’s” cover would have really been blown.”

I don’t really get the point of this. The latter part would have absolutely no consequence to me. I’m just not impressed at the idea if a woman cooking, I do it myself and its enjoyable.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
Goblue January 19, 2011 at 08:39

“Just another psychotic bitch, nothing new here. Proof?

Here is what she says: “But what could be more fun than taking a 34-year-old virgin to a shop selling everything from art-glass dildos to vibrating nipple clamps? And what could be funnier than watching said virgin earnestly study each product’s list of features for water resistance, battery life, noise factor, shape, size and heft? ”

Then later: “The leftovers (i.e., non-married men) were left over: …porn-addicted virgins …”

LOL. Dumb bitch.

She hasn’t had a man because she is broken in ways that she can’t even see.”

This is ironic! She criticizes those virgin men for being porn addicts and she goes out and commits the sin of fornification. This lady is a messed up hypocrite.

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zed January 19, 2011 at 08:47

Men and women do “need one another” if they are to produce and rear the next generation to people their society.

It’s all well and good to refuse to take on the burdens of reproducing one’s self — and I’m not saying here that one has an obligation to do otherwise — but whoever inherits the future, it won’t be the children of people who take that view.

Which is exactly why the people who do have children who are going to inherit the future really should give more thought to what kind of future they are bequeathing their children.

When you have a group of people who have grown to hate a society so much that they are doing their part to kill it by not producing future members, that is the chest pains of an impending cultural heart attack.

The US at least has become a sort of praying mantis or black widow culture – the price of a man reproducing is to allow the woman to bite his head off or suck all the juices out of his body (CS) to nourish the kids.

It’s not the responsibility of the individual to prolong the life of a culture he regards as toxic. A tribe which tells its men “we are hungry, so we have voted and decided that it will be best for us to crack your bones and eat the marrow” is likely to lose members very quickly.

Again speaking of the US – I have heard that approximately 41% pay no taxes and get some or all of their support from the government. With the destruction of the tax-producing private sector, it is unlikely that the tax payers will stay in the majority for much longer, and things will end up with less than half the people supporting more than half who contribute nothing to their own sustenance.

As long as a man’s productive surplus went mostly to his own children, men were motivated to produce, protect, and provide. Having their income confiscated to support a lot of baby mamas of other men’s babies isn’t going to get many men to put in much overtime.

The people who have kids who are going to be saddled with this burden in the future better come up with a better way to motivate men than endless harassment and threats of jail. Those are strategies which no longer work at all.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 09:12

ahem… not quite. The real spiritual revolution would be the realization that spirituality, as a quest for truth, is the province, first and foremost, of men. Truth is quite secondary to women, whose ultimate priority is continuity and belonging (nurturing, supporting). The real revolution would include the realization that spirituality is, at heart, quite antithetical to the female condition. “Me, me, me, I need, I want, I hurt” does not reflect a spiritual constitution.

Ya its funny how women turn to Eastern spirituality when eastern tradition says that enlightenment is much harder/more rare for women. It makes sense that they would have trouble moving beyond their normal condition and sensing any greater truth.

No, women do not crave spiritual guidance. What they crave is belonging –belonging to something larger than themselves –and belonging implies the willingness to be led

Yep, its not actually about improving yourself, that’s hardly a female thing, just belonging. I consider that a cheap way of knowing who you are if its only based on belonging. Self improvement and helping your condition along with others requires that you actually take in criticism which women don’t do often. Keeping with this tone I actually question your suggestion that women are the nurturers. Like spirituality I think nurturing actually takes work and a certain dedication. It requires that you actually quite some of your needs and listen. I don’t think I need to preach to you that a single mother home tends to be bad for the kids. In reference to the article/study I linked above a volatile person who will not listen to your needs does not produce an environment that is supportive to a persons needs and development. But I suppose you should expect a single parent home to be that way. But if you read this you’ll see that single father actually do provide a good environment that meets the general needs of their children. The safe environment and consistent love from the father, emotional control, helps the kids to develop in a general sense. You could call that love, support, or nurturing but the point is that men are very good to their kids (if committed) and help develop well rounded kids. Nurturing seems to imply feminine but the only real thing that matters is that you help the people around you and men do that with their kids and school children. The kids actually feel better about themselves and then do more. A stable mind I’d argue is important at work, at school, at home, and in meditation.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 09:32

@codebuster

Within the context of this article, do we now realize how criminally insane affirmative action is? Men, for whom the very thing that matters most

What is so bad is that they are helping women out at work to fight tradition then the family courts help women to actually uphold tradition (at least that part that says women are good and caregivers). There’s actually even more general support and funding to mothers because “that’s the way it is”…

Men who do not meet their provider obligations don’t matter to women. They are invisible to women.

It wont take long before men feel the same way about women who don’t work, or “housewife divas”. 60% of women would date an unemployed man, 90% of men would date an unemployed woman

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Smith January 19, 2011 at 09:37

@ fondueguy

Regarding your Dailymail article about men making better teachers, did you
notice the comment left by “Jo” 29/10/2010 14:35:

“…but I question the motive of any grown man who wants to spend
8 hours each day around children. The main priority must be the
protection of our children from sexual predators even if that comes
at the expense of worse exam performance.”

In black & white. What unbelievable poison.

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zed January 19, 2011 at 10:00

I think this is exactly the thing that escapes many of those on the “men must be providers” side. Men have to find a way to survive and be needed in an every changing culture. Survival of the fittest. Those who continue to rely on purely their provider skills to get a woman, will loose. Women aren’t wooed by a man’s middle class salary anymore, becuase all too often their salary is the same or greater. She thinks, “whooppe, so you make money….so do I. Show me something I don’t have”. Once the rift is prepared, then more traditional roles may naturally fall back in line.

It really surprised me for you to say this, Laura. I think it is the first time I have ever heard you come off like a hard-core feminist.

Let’s take a real look at this woman, with all the blinders of BS and feminism removed.

Here we have a middle-aged woman who has been so left on the shelf that no man has ever wanted her either for a wife or even enough for one night stand to push the issue with her. And, somehow the conversation has gotten twisted around to make it men’s responsibility to find some way to make a woman they don’t want need them?

This is why the SoCons are bluffing on a totally losing hand.

I don’t “have to” to find a way to survive and be needed, I only have to find a way to survive – if the culture doesn’t need me, it can go hang itself.

The truth of the matter is women really do need men. They need men to pick up the garbage, and do the actual law enforcement work to pick up the slack for all the officer-ettes who got their jobs with no qualifications other than Affirmative Action. They need men to pay the taxes which pay for their endless stream of government supports which a huge crowd of victim hustlers assure us that women will certainly perish without. And, they need men to get out of bed to investigate things that go bump in the night.

It’s so strange to have gone through all those years of being bashed as a man for being a “Peter Pan who can’t make a commitment”, and now hear of a woman who no man wanted being used as the reasoning why men need to do something to make women “need” us.

I know that women need us men. I also know that they are trying to cheat the system and fate by finding ways to get what they need from us without having to compensate us for giving it to them.

And, the best way I can think of to wake women up to the depths of their self-delusion is to refuse to give them what they need unless they pay for it in advance – “Payment is expected at the time that services are rendered.”

There will never be any “going back to traditional roles” simply because they are no longer traditional. We might say they are legendary or mythical, but a tradition is something that most people do generation after generation. So-called “traditional roles” have become nothing more than arcane practices of splinter cults.

Since women have managed to delude themselves that they no longer need men to be their providers, and no longer provide to men the emotional support and reasonable faith in the paternity of the children the women bear, men are using Game to get the sex from women that they used to pay for by providing. Guys with Game are probably getting more and better sex, and certainly more variety, than beta Herb husbands, at a minute fraction of the cost – if any cost at all.

Women and the culture don’t “need” me? Well, despite the fact that I know it is a lie and a bluff, I can still take them at their word and do a little victory dance singing –
“Free at last, free at last, thank you Lord, I’m free at last.”

I really don’t see why I “need” to make Mormon girl “need” me to just keep her from shooting herself in the foot with her own ridiculous demands and unattractive “independence.”

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zed January 19, 2011 at 10:25

“…but I question the motive of any grown man who wants to spend
8 hours each day around children. The main priority must be the
protection of our children from sexual predators even if that comes
at the expense of worse exam performance.”

The main priority is obviously to consolidate the monopoly of female sexual predators and make sure that any males who might protect children from them are neutralized through collective assassination of the male character.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 11:36

In black & white. What unbelievable poison.” -Smith

Weird, that is very twisted thinking. I’ve never heard an outright man = pedo in real life but I have heard from messed up individuals who are completely at odds with what their supposed to represent. Its trully chilling.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 11:38

Also, while that comment was heavily down voted the only comment more down voted was saying men are better teachers… apparently that was sexist.

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Firepower January 19, 2011 at 11:56

A thinking man hardly needs a Mormon firebrand like Nicolle Hardy to turn the lightbulb on
that states Kim Kardashian gets more attention than a Nicole Hardy.

Next.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 12:08

I don’t “have to” to find a way to survive and be needed, I only have to find a way to survive –if the culture doesn’t need me, it can go hang itself.

Or create our own.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 12:38

“This is why the SoCons are bluffing on a totally losing hand.”

The bluff is how badddly men need sex; wait a third of men in Japan don’t care much about sex either way, oh…

The bluff that men need women for companionship and emotional support more than the reverse. Hrmmmm, why is it that women are always invading male spaces or shamming men for spending more time with friends than their girlfriends. Maybe women are threatened by competition (men enjoying good company of each other over nagging) and seeking dominance of men’s social outlets. Truth be told women have been fairly successful at this but hopefully this will change.

But the biggest bluff must be that women working (again) puts pressure on men, wrong. Now women better work or they wont be very marketable.

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Troll King January 19, 2011 at 13:15

Marriage is dead. Why pay for something she has given away to everyone else for free. Marriage is retirement for women. The funny thing is that men have already figured this out and are making a new way. Of the few guys I know my age who want to get married, they seem to be more pissed at women than the guys who have shrugged it off.

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scot January 19, 2011 at 13:34

What do the unified American gender-raunch pundits think about this??

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Hestia January 19, 2011 at 16:17

@fondueguy-I don’t really get the point of this. The latter part would have absolutely no consequence to me. I’m just not impressed at the idea if a woman cooking, I do it myself and its enjoyable.
The entire comment was meant as a joke. I hold the same opinion as zed: that “Lara” is a man posing as a woman. Usually “Lara” does a brilliant job depicting the mindset of a self-centered woman but this time a mistake was made with the mention of roasting a whole chicken. This is not merely out of the cooking skill set of many women but represents a certain economy and planning that is long gone from most kitchens today. This point was what I was trying to get at in the second part of my comment and in doing so pointing out that “Lara” best be careful not to apply too much logic to this trolling job or else the cover is blown. ;)

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Laura Grace Robins January 19, 2011 at 16:43

“somehow the conversation has gotten twisted around to make it men’s responsibility to find some way to make a woman they don’t want need them?”

I was trying to agree with a quote from the main article and I only had in mind the men who still want a women (for whatever reason). I was not talking about the men who don’t want women nor was I trying to get them to want them. I am tired of some of the traditional women insisting that men are not real men unless they are monetary providers; so, I thought the suggestion, “If we are ever to bridge this rift between men and women, we’ll need a spiritual revolution. Men need to see themselves as more than purely material beings”, was a good one. I recognize now that inferring they need to be spiritual providers may be no better, because women have to first submit in order for a man to lead/have authority spiritually. Everything comes down to women submitting and until they can get over themselves and SUBMIT, forget about repairing the rift.

I can see how my survival of the fittest comment comes off bad, and I apologize. I was thinking IF men want to attempt or survive in the dating world than strategies are going to have to adapt to keep up with the mess of modern women. Of course avoiding may be the best option, especially when it is most likely the rift will never be repaired (and sometimes I think it shouldn’t even be attempted). Given women started this whole rift, I don’t blame those of you won’t bend to women one way or the other. You are right that women need men no matter what and it is not the other way around.

I’m still learning and perhaps that was a feminist hiccup, it takes awhile to deprogram completely. You have to constantly stay one step ahead of feminism or it can easily sneak up on you. I appreciate you pointing out any flawed thinking. I guess I can know I am off, based on whether Lara agrees with me (no offense, Lara).

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 13
crella January 19, 2011 at 16:49

“…but I question the motive of any grown man who wants to spend 8 hours each day around children. The main priority must be the
protection of our children from sexual predators even if that comes
at the expense of worse exam performance.”

You’ve been brainwashed, if you look at a man with a child and think ill of him immediately. Wherever do you get the idea that women do not molest children??

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Satyajit Roy January 19, 2011 at 17:08

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Satyajit Roy January 19, 2011 at 17:32

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Tae January 19, 2011 at 17:54

If your wife decides to divorce you (or you her), you will be forced to be her provider. That’s the real discussion her pal should have had with her…

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john thames January 19, 2011 at 18:27

One of the best ways to strngthen marriage would be to return to the ancient practice of father custody. Few people realize it but before 1850 in the US father always got custody in the US. Marriages were strong in those days because the wife could not run off with the children and be rewarded with child support and alimony for doing so. Today, the combination of no fault divorce plus child support serves as an incentive for women to rob men blind.

As to reversing biology, it can’t be done. Women will always look for a man with money to support the family; men will always focus on the tits, ass and baby box. Therefore, all the jobs for men; all the babies for women. I reccomend Steve Moxon’s book “The Woman Racket” and George Gilder’s old book, “Sexual Suicide”. For more scholarly readers I urge them to get the Barnes and Noble reprint of Correa Moylan Walsh’s old volume, “Feminism”, first published about 1917. Itwas part of a trilogy which include “Socialism” and “The Climax of Civilization”.

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zed January 19, 2011 at 18:29

I can see how my survival of the fittest comment comes off bad, and I apologize.

There is absolutely nothing to apologize for, Laura. Despite my reputation as a crusty old curmudgeon, I’m really just a big old Teddy Bear – ask Hestia. ;)

I seldom get bent out of shape over something someone says, but instead use what they say to point out ideas and beliefs which are shaping people’s behaviors which may not turn out to be quite accurate.

I think the statement in the original article about men being providers by nature really is not accurate because it misses some subtle but very important points. Men do need to be needed. That is the core issue. And, because they tend to be doers, that fits very nicely with a ready-made way to be needed – by providing.

Nobody who is hungry needs to be convinced that they need to eat. The need is expressed as want – they want to eat, because they need to eat, and thus they experience hunger.

Having a woman need, look up to, and respect a man makes her attractive to him. Having her do none of these things makes her unattractive.

I’ve noticed a small trend illustrated by Mormon girl and by the appearance of several single female Christian bloggers who just can’t seem to get men (the right kind of men) to take much interest in them. And, like Mormon girl, they seem genuinely bewildered by that.

That points to what is probably the most insidious lingering effect of the sexual revolution. The entire process of choosing mates and pairing up has had all the real emotional content stripped out of it and been reduced to nothing more than sex. I even see many female bloggers referring to the “SMP” (Sexual Market Place) instead of the MMP – Mating Market Place.

I’m starting to refer to these middle-aged virgins as the LOTS Women – Left On The Shelf Women. They don’t need men, and men see and sense that, and the protective feelings of tenderness which are triggered in men by vulnerability in women never get triggered toward those women.

The fact that men have nothing to give them makes them generally unattractive to men. And, the fleeting and dicey phenomenon of sexual attraction does not even come close to making up for that lack.

I don’t think the rift is nearly as much between men and women as it is between traditional values and contemporary practices. And, personally, I believe that the rift is much harder on women than on men. I would be willing to bet that many, if not most, of the men that Mormon girl has dated over the years have gone on from her to either have girlfriends that they did have sex with, or met women that they married.

While Mormon girl remained LOTS.

Having spent the years of her prime sexuality – not just in terms of appeal, but likely in her ability to enjoy sexual intimacy – on the shelf, Mormon girl oddly turns to 2 lesbians to instruct her. I can’t imagine why she would think that a couple of lesbians would know anything at all about male sexuality, but it is fairly consistent with the past few decades of women seeking advice from other women about men and totally ignoring what men might have to say.

There are men who have adjusted quite well to the idea that women do not need us. (“Whew”, the sigh of relief goes up, “that means I really don’t have to crawl down into that coal mine to make a living for someone who needs me to. Women are like Mormon girl and don’t need me, so I can take a much easier, safer, job! Hooray!!!! “)

It might help to get across my perspective by using an analogy. Suppose I would fix myself a nice bag lunch – a hero sandwich on French bread, some fruit and cheese, and a bottle of wine. And, as I am sitting on the grass in one of my favorite parks enjoying my lunch, a homeless woman comes by and says “You need to convince me that I need half your sandwich.”

I’m going to look at her and simply say “No I don’t.”

To me, Mormon girl is a homeless woman. Oh, she might have a nice apartment, or even her own house. But, she doesn’t have a man in her life who is willing to invest in her, or even one who wants her. I think “home” is made by family, not furnishings from Pottery Barn.

I think it was a serious tactical mistake on the part of women to teach men to live on their own. All the harassment in the world by the SoCons isn’t going to take away men’s knowledge that they can roast a chicken and open a bag of salad as well as any woman. And, since marriage in no way assures a man that even if the children his wife bears are his (which they very well may not be) that he will be able to remain in their lives, or emotional and physical intimacy, or safety from criminal accusations, or any kind of helpmeet, many of them are taking those extra hours that they might have spent working overtime to support a wife and children to do what a wife might have done and make their own lives better.

Isn’t there a biblical story about women eventually begging men to marry them and invest in them again?

Women still need us men. But, it is not our job to wake them up to that fact while they pretend otherwise.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 20:06

“Women still need us men. But, it is not our job to wake them up to that fact while they pretend otherwise.”

I’m a bit confused. It seems your either on the defensive from male assault and pain or your sympathizing with women. Maybe I’m wrong but when you say it’s not our job to wake them up are you suggesting its our job to help them if they ask like a begged?

They have been asking all along. Give me more give me more give me more all the while asking men to suffer. Do you take pitty on them because that may incidentally cause them some pain?

Is it about managing human suffering? If that the case I must point out men do suffer alot. That includes stress, suicide, and shame and I’d say men are effected by those more. And hell men are very affected and vulnerable in relationships. And right now boys are more vulnerable to parenting than girls and men are more affected by ups and Downs in relationships because men are being denied supportive social networks (need more loving male bonding). Even if I entirely ignored the way others treat me and just wanted to help out why would I EVER become a provider? So some woman can try and appropriate me. How does provided help my fellow man who may litteraly be homeless or in jail. What about their suffering? The have mental issues and practically no support. (Btw women have fucked us pretty badly because they are capable beings).

In my personal relationships I find ALOT of meaning from reciprocity whether its a man or woman, because its more meaningful than some odd replaceable dependency. I would only meet a future wife half way and I would want her to need me about as much as I need her. (And we know women’s needs and desires range all over the place, like men’s).

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 20:26

Sorry I should have explained why I got the impression I did. Ill just plainly explain my thinking.

“That points to what is probably the most insidious lingering effect of the sexual revolution. The entire process of choosing mates and pairing up has had all the real emotional content stripped out of it and been reduced to nothing more than sex”

This made it sound like women are victims and that their the ones who want deeper meaningful relationships.

“To me, Mormon girl is a homeless woman.”

I know its an analogy but homeless invokes pitty and I just don’t think a woman who isn’t that successful (wont lower standards) at relationships isn’t that pitiful.

“Men do need to be needed”

That just sounds like men need too, and I don’t think its about the provider role. Most importantly there is not enough deep male bonding.

“But, it is not our job to wake them up to that fact while they pretend otherwise.”

Well, that and more.

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fondueguy January 19, 2011 at 22:18

“I’m a bit confused. It seems your either on the defensive from male assault and pain or your sympathizing with women”

What I meant here was a lose lose situation for men. That is when men have less power than women they are mocked but when men have more power than women men are supposed to take pity on women and help them out.

If it was said that men needed women more than the reverse people would tell men try harder; actually we would have it rubbed in our faces every day. If men were more prone to deviant behavior people would say lock up the fuckers who break the law and maybe even put greater restraints on all men. If men made less money men would get less money.

I don’t like lose lose games where one second I’m on the defensive for survival and the next second I’m locked as some sort of provider. (In truth I agree with the statement full heartedly that “men’s greatest weakness is their guise of strength”)

The following approaches my sentiment.

It’s so strange to have gone through all those years of being bashed as a man for being a “Peter Pan who can’t make a commitment”, and now hear of a woman who no man wanted being used as the reasoning why men need to do something to make women “need” us.

A lose lose situation one needs to say no to.

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zed January 20, 2011 at 06:59

@fondueguy,
Wow, you certainly interpreted what I said in ways I never even dreamed of.

Maybe I’m wrong but when you say it’s not our job to wake them up are you suggesting its our job to help them if they ask like a begged?

No, I’m saying none of that is our job. Women have made it clear that they don’t need us, don’t want us, and don’t like us – a bit sad, but oh well. Our job is to take care of ourselves, full stop. They have assured us they can do the same.

“To me, Mormon girl is a homeless woman.”

I know its an analogy but homeless invokes pitty and I just don’t think a woman who isn’t that successful (wont lower standards) at relationships isn’t that pitiful.

The point I was trying to make with that analogy is that it is an absolutely brilliant bit of reframing for a hungry person to try to set it up that I have to convince her to do me the “favor” of “allowing” me to share my lunch with her. I feel absolutely no pity at all for Mormon girl. She got caught in the trap that feminism and feminists set for women, and if she gets upset at anyone for her situation in life not being what she wanted, she should get upset at them.

“That points to what is probably the most insidious lingering effect of the sexual revolution. The entire process of choosing mates and pairing up has had all the real emotional content stripped out of it and been reduced to nothing more than sex”

This made it sound like women are victims and that their the ones who want deeper meaningful relationships.

You are reading a lot of stereotypes into my words. I said nothing at about women in that statement. I think “relationships” have become very shallow on both sides of the sexual divide. The big problem for women is that sex is such an easy way to get attention from men that they forget that it isn’t enough to get men to close the deal for something longer lasting. A lot of women seem to think that as long as they throw their man a crumb or two of bad sex once in a while that is all they need to do for their part of the relationship. And then, they can’t figure out why they aren’t getting relationships delivered to them like phone-ordered pizza.

The issue for Mormon girl is that not only was no man willing to buy the cow, they didn’t even find her attractive enough to ask for some of her milk.

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fondueguy January 20, 2011 at 08:57

“I think “relationships” have become very shallow on both sides of the sexual divide. The big problem for women is that sex is such an easy way to get attention from men that they forget that it isn’t enough to get men to close the deal for something longer lasting. A lot of women seem to think that as long as they throw their man a crumb or two of bad sex once in a while that is all they need to do for their part of the relationship. And then, they can’t figure out why they aren’t getting relationships delivered to them like phone-ordered pizza.”

I see, I was way off. I guess alarms just trigger in my head when I see things are worse for women (rift), men let off the hook while while women are convinced they don’t need us, bigger rift in traditional vs non than men and women, and men need to be needed. My reading was pretty shallow and just off.

This was even definitive, “many of them are taking those extra hours that they might have spent working overtime to support a wife and children to do what a wife might have done and make their own lives better.”

Ya, I really should have known better too.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
Keoni Galt January 20, 2011 at 15:33

I’m surprised no one else has done so…but out of curiousity, I googled a bit on Nicole Hardy to see what she looked like.

http://www.mainstreetrag.com/NHardy_2.html

Based on her writing, I thought her problem was that she was simply a war pig.

While she’s no raving beauty, she’s certainly not ugly…a 7 at best.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 20, 2011 at 16:25

Of course…here is a good reason not to date western women. They are crazy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1348715/Why-did-police-treat-female-stalker-joke.html

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) January 20, 2011 at 16:35

zed January 19, 2011 at 18:29
“but it is fairly consistent with the past few decades of women seeking advice from other women about men and totally ignoring what men might have to say.”

Very well put Zed. Although women don’t totally ignore what we say…they hate on us and demonise us for telling them what they are doing that is so destructive. LOL!

“They don’t need men, and men see and sense that, and the protective feelings of tenderness which are triggered in men by vulnerability in women never get triggered toward those women.”

And this is a very good point. My fav#4 has some ‘family issues’. So one time, just before going home for a holiday I flew into Frankfurt to see her and perhaps lend some support if she was really upset. As I expected she was very upset and in the middle of dinner she just collapsed into tears and I was able to support her. And of course the feelings you mention are triggered. Fast forward to this christmas. I didn’t hear from her much over christmas. Turned out she was ill but didn’t want to tell me because ‘she can take care of herself’. She also said “If I ask you to help me then I will be obliged to help you if you need it.” This is seen as ‘bad’ by ‘independent women’.

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DEI January 20, 2011 at 18:55

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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King Alfred January 20, 2011 at 21:11

As a 35-year-old virgin Mormon man, perhaps I can shed some light on this topic. There are many Mormon women like Miss Hardy who wonder why they cannot seem to attract a husband of our faith. I don’t intend my remarks to be construed as passing judgment on Miss Hardy, but they should rather be taken as general observations from my perspective.

North American Mormon women are probably the most difficult women in the world to please with respect to what they will accept in a husband. They suffer from the Western “Princess Syndrome,” and thus feel a strong sense of entitlement like all other Western women. At the same time, they are surrounded by many very devout, very traditional Christian men who are excessively prone to pedestalizing women and sacrificing their own goods and desires for the benefit of others. While many of my sisters in faith are veritable saints, the inevitable religious pandering to women that occurs in today’s world (which is well-intentioned but not Biblically-supported) can create some extremely unpleasant (and completely unmarriageable) personalities.

There are likewise many Mormon men in the complementary position, wondering where all the potential wives have gone. It is true that we Mormon men are taught from an early age to be providers and protectors. While none of us will claim to be perfect husband material or perfect Christians, many of us are traditional Christian men in the truest sense. While we are prepared to give all that we are able to provide for our wives and children, we do expect our wives to make equivalent (though not necessarily identical) sacrifices for us. It is primarily the lack of willingness on the part of Christian women to reciprocate the contributions willingly made by Christian men that results in their inability to attract husbands. What the man quoted in the article really meant was, “You women value men only for what we can provide for you. Now that you are able to provide for yourselves (but only with the help of many unnoticed and unappreciated men), you will not value us as husbands, no matter what else we may be able to bring to the table.” Realizing that courtship and marriage are games we cannot win, many of us simply withdraw from the playing field and take up other, more profitable pursuits. Trout fishing is my pursuit of choice these days. At least I have a chance, and it’s enjoyable whether I win or lose.

I recently found this site referenced while reading the “Full of Grace, Seasoned with Salt” blog, and was very intrigued by the essay “Stop Looking For A Wife: You Won’t Find One”. The thesis of this essay matches my experience. There really are no wives out there, not even for those of us who actually DO know what to do with one. While we and other Christian men are trained from birth to become traditional husbands, the sisters in our respective faiths are not generally taught to become traditional wives. This is not a fault of Christianity itself, which clearly teaches the roles of husband and wife, but rather is a defect that has crept into our churches from the outside. (For the record, I fully support the official teachings of my church- I am merely denouncing the garbage that some people intentionally or inadvertently track into the church from other sources). While many of our sisters in the faith are basically good people, they are simply not wife material because their deeply-ingrained attitudes and behaviors drive potential husbands away and destroy marriages. Also, the divorce rate within Christian churches is not much lower than for the general public. There is good reason for a devout Christian man to fear marriage. I have worked and waited over 35 years for a wife- I can wait another 35 years. For those interested, I previously discussed this (OK, ranted is a more appropriate description) on my Requiem for Civilization blog. I also recommend the Biblical Manhood blog for additional reading for any like-minded individuals.

I fully realize that many readers will disagree with my thesis that traditional values and roles were good things. We may not be able to agree on the details of what constitutes an ideal world or how to get there, but I hope we can all agree that feminism and the concurrent dissemination of a female-centric Weltanschauung have brought nothing of value to the world, and have caused extreme misery for many men, women, and children.

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DC January 21, 2011 at 04:50

As to the Eastern spiritual practices, it is a double edged sword – more men have made progress because wisdom arises earlier and men are also not subjected to the huge monthly mood swings. However, it is easier for women to conserve the physical resources with which to make progress in the esoteric arts. If you dont got the fuel, you dont make it off the launch pad!

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fondueguy January 21, 2011 at 08:06

“it is easier for women to conserve the physical resources…”

?

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zed January 21, 2011 at 09:14

It is primarily the lack of willingness on the part of Christian women to reciprocate the contributions willingly made by Christian men that results in their inability to attract husbands. What the man quoted in the article really meant was, “You women value men only for what we can provide for you. Now that you are able to provide for yourselves (but only with the help of many unnoticed and unappreciated men), you will not value us as husbands, no matter what else we may be able to bring to the table.

Welcome, King Alfred. Thanks for your comments. I hope you stick around and contribute what I think is a very valuable perspective to the whole discussion. If you have read many of the comments, you will know that we are a bit of a rough bunch here, and often disagree about many things. I hope you won’t be put off by that, because once men can get past their surface differences I think we have a lot more in common than many realize.

The lack of willingness to reciprocate is a problem I see in most women today. Instead of having any sort of appreciation for whatever men do give them, most women seem to believe that they are simply entitled to it – that it is their station in life to receive without having to ever give anything back.

Some men cave in to this and become pathetic supplicants that their wives hold in utter contempt. Others, like you, who value themselves, refuse to throw their pearls before swine and find other satisfying pursuits. And, on the list of pursuits which are satisfying in and of themselves, regardless of outcome, fishing is very high on the list.

So, my next question is, what is your favorite to pursue – rainbow, brown, brook, cut-throat, or other? ;)

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fondueguy January 21, 2011 at 11:01

The lack of willingness to reciprocate is a problem I see in most women today. Instead of having any sort of appreciation for whatever men do give them, most women seem to believe that they are simply entitled to it –that it is their station in life to receive without having to ever give anything back.

This is why I think it was an enormous mistake for men to take on the familiar 1950′s provider role. Because women’s work load was lightened and made easy they would no longer appreciate what men did for them and just took men for granted. This male obligation and female privilege meant women didn’t understand men’s suffering, these women learned little accountability (accountability at work is not the accountability at home for a number of reasons), and just lacked reciprocity by design.

I hope you won’t be put off by that, because once men can get past their surface differences I think we have a lot more in common than many realize.

Probably true, at least here its worth working on.

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Robert in Arabia January 21, 2011 at 11:13

JG 1 day ago

Regarding Park Chung Hee and Lee Kuan Yew.

I have lived for extended periods of time in both the Republic of Korea and Singapore. 10 years in Asia, in sum. Those societies have an elite that is fond of the people. It feels a duty to them, even when they behave with belligerence. They were not perfect, but the ROK and SG are wonderful, orderly and prosperous societies as a result.

It is not possible for an American to understand what it is like to live in a society where the elite have affection for the people. You have to go there to feel it.

http://www.commentarymagazine….
http://theoccidentalobserver.n
“One dramatic sign was the big influx of Jews.” Perversity resulted from that fact that “the old elite used to get on fairly well with the country it was set over. Members of the old social upper-crust elite were richer and better educated than the public at large, but approached life on basically the same terms.” The new, heavily Jewish elite, Gelernter argued, is not only different from the non-Jewish masses, “it loathes the nation it rules.”

It loathes the nation it rules. That sentence perfectly describes this damn country.

Flag 21 people liked this. Like ReplyReply Scott Locklin 1 day ago in reply to JG

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King Alfred January 21, 2011 at 17:14

@ Zed:
Thank you for the welcome. I realize that the commentors here may be a rough bunch; I wasn’t exactly expecting this group to be like a quilting club. I think we are basically in agreement on the most essential points, as you suggested. I don’t have any reservations about calling things like I see them, so a group of men who do likewise is refreshing, even if we don’t always agree on everything. If necessary, I would rather have a world full of enemies who openly oppose me, than to have even one false friend who is secretly looking for opportunites to stab me in the back. Honesty is more important to me than making great efforts to avoid offending anyone. Perhaps this is partly why I am still single.

I am open to learning new information, and I look forward to reading more content on the Spearhead from time to time.

As for the fishing- I find rainbow trout the easiest to catch in my area. I’m still trying to hook some striped bass as well…

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Laura Grace Robins January 21, 2011 at 18:27

Zed,
Thanks for your response…..I will be pondering….

King Alfred,
Good to see you again…..

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Satyajit Roy January 21, 2011 at 21:29

Robert in Arabia, I’m new here to the States. Please explain what you mean by the elites hate the country. How? Why?

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Casey Ray May 20, 2011 at 10:44

This is a message I can get behind: “Don’t protect or provide for women. Find another worthwhile quest for your life.”

This message is the quintessential Man Going His Own Way, MGTOW, as I see it.

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