By Gorbachev
Feminism has been eating away at the core of American demographics, dating and domestic life for decades. What’s often not understood is that this process is under way all over the world, everywhere industrial economies have taken root.
I lived in Japan, Korea and China, though I have the most personal experience in Korea, where I lived for several years. Feminism is definitely altering the equation for young men and women in Korea. I was able to watch as the social environment was literally percolating and bubbling over. I go back regularly, and from what I can see, the process is only accelerating. Korea is maybe 10-15 years behind the same process in other Asian countries, though, where this trend has been radically changing societies for some time.
In Japan, there is an entire generation of boys that have refused to co-operate with the work-hard, forehead-to-the-grindstone, grin-and-bear-it mentality of their fathers. What’s worse, women have largely elected not to get married and the birth rate in Japan has crashed. We’ve all heard of Japan’s lack of babies and the economic stagnation and aging population, but fewer people have experienced what happens when boys and men simply stop participating in life. Reclusive Japanese “Herbs” have simply withdrawn from regular male pursuits – outside of video games.
In Korea, a growing class of young men are often seen dangling “purses” and spending hours styling themselves, activities their fathers did only on sufferance and at the insistence of their wives. This is contrasted with a shrinking pool of resilient, brash males who are considered domineering, and whose chauvinism is often blamed by women on their terrible experiences as conscripts in the Korean army . These traditional men are no longer the progressive model for youth in Korea. But though they’re a declining species, they haven’t disappeared altogether.
In China, the effects are now being debated with some earnestness.
We can all guess, pretty easily, why the boys and young men are “un-manly” and can’t bring themselves to work at anything they need to do. It’s most definitely not because they’re suffering from an over-indulgence of “male privilege”. Most likely, they’ve been indulged, pampered, and prevented from acting on their hard-wired male programs that push them to compete and excel in aggressively non-feminine ways.
Some highlights from the article sound powerfully familiar. It speaks to the universality of human nature that Chinese researchers would have come to the same conclusions reached by many men outside of China.
A similar academic gender gap also observed in the West and other countries where girls outperform boys, but the situation appears especially serious in China where decades of a one-child policy have focused all parental attention on a single child. It’s also ironic that boys appear especially at a disadvantage in a male-dominated society where many people prefer boy babies.
This general state of affairs the authors and many others attribute to China’s rigid education system that doesn’t accommodate boys’ and girls’ differing physiological and brain development; pressure to perform; overprotection and pampering by parents and grandparents; and an environment at home and school that is dominated by women and lacks strong male role models.
“For years we’ve focused more on girls’ rights to receive equal education. But we unintentionally neglected boys and their worsening crisis,” says coauthor Sun, also deputy director of the China Youth Research Center. If this continues, we will have a new gender imbalance,” Sun says.
…Parents spoil them and coop them up indoors instead of letting them run around outside because they think nature and vigorous exercise are dangerous.
(This is a social phenomenon common to many Asian countries, where physical exercise or work of any kind is frowned upon. Ironically, while China may win many medals at the olympics, its population is one of the most sedentary on Earth)
“In a system that ignores gender differences and demands every student be quiet and obedient, there are heavy shackles on boys who have at least 15 times more testosterone than girls,” he says. “Boys and girls are not parts on an assembly line that have the same size, shape and function.”
Boys’ ability to read and write develops two years later than girls, even nerves in a boys’ fingers grow more slowly than girls, says Sun.
“My son has trouble holding a brush and writing Chinese characters with complicated strokes,” says one man. Girls do better earlier, though boys catch up as their coordination improves.
“But they are required to learn the same thing at the same speed. This is so unfair,” Sun says.
– This is the same old – same old. When you let women and bureaucrats teach your boys, the only option they have is to teach them not to be boys or watch them fail in school.
Turning men into girls is fine – except that you’ll never get any grandchildren, because the women won’t breed with your less masculine son.
Some boys are regarded as slow or silly because they have so much energy and have a hard time sitting still. “This can make them hate school starting in the first grade,” says Sun.
Though boys need to run around, many schools eliminate vigorous and demanding physical exercise for both boys and girls – lest accidents result in lawsuits. Exuberance is generally discouraged.Most important lesson:
“The education system is more suitable for girls, who are good at memorizing and like sitting quietly to read,” says author Li.
It’s not just American men that labor under the crushing burden of a feminized edu-eaucracy.
{ 206 comments… read them below or add one }
On one hand, that sucks. On the other hand, I can’t help but think “masculinity arbitrage opportunity” where I could put my brazen American brotasticness to good use over there (headed to SE Asia with a few friends over winter break).
Hot debate. What do you think?
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http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/feb/08021805
Yes, entire fish populations are being feminized and so are men. Yes men, your sperm counts have declined 40%. Does this quantify the level of our feminization…perhaps but the effect of dioxins, endocrine disruptors, birth control hormones and municipal water supplies, phytoestrogens, BPA and synthetic estrogens are killing off males.
THIS DOCUMENTARY IS ALARMING: THE DISAPPEARING MALE http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3450754654538943#
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Western Civilization is equivalent and uniquely synonymous with feminism.
Feminism is the emergent property of Western Civilization’s core components – democracy, liberalism, “human rights”, Christianity, capitalism, free market, etc.
Wherever Western Civilization and its components go, feminism sprouts up there too. As the countries named above have been or are in the process of being Westernized – being protectorates to boot – it’s not surprising things are evolving as they are.
The tendency since the conclusion of WWII has been the univeralization of Western Civilization: backed up possibly by threats of military force. This legitimacy was granted on the conclusion of WWII, and while it met a civilizational/philosophical challenger in the form of the Soviet Union and its allies, it has since, in the post-USSR world been given a name: “globalization”.
Make no mistake that “globalization” actually means (enforced) globalized western standards and paradigms. And that means (enforced) global feminism.
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I don’t think Japan or China are actually influenced by the female supremacy ideaology that is feminism, but their social issues, due to the broken sense of comradere between men, are ultimately caused by the same phenomenom, Social Darwinism.
All things considered, the only substantial difference between natural selection and social darwinism at the end of the day is which side of the Order vs. Chaos scale each is on. Natural Selection has us men killing each other off in order for the strongest among us earn possession of the women. Social Darwinism ends up with men competing with each other to most succesfully benefit off of the labors and sacrifices of other men to procure the most wealth and status for themselves (or alternatively to escape the system of wealth extraction).
At the end of the day, they are both remorseless in regards to the welfare of men. The best system for societal growth requires that men’s individual autonomy (and room for development) is respected while simultaneously affording men status for upholding the values of society and for other men to hold each other to this standard, not as women with a penis but as brothers and companions in the journey we call life.
Young men will ultimately be less receptive to the system as it becomes further inhospitable for the traditional masculine man and we end up with phenomenon like the withdrawn young male in Japan, the effiminate young male of China, or the alcoholic young men of Russia and Eastern Europe.
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With the rise of Economic Prosperous China, comes with feminism. Feminism had taken root in China. And it also means trouble, not for those Orients alone, but all of us men in the world.
Grim as this sounds. In an ideology of the enemy. What better way to destroy the male is by reducing the numbers of females. Aka by prompting one child policy and aborting the female fetuses, then indoctrinating the males into becoming less masculine.
If you look at other Asian countries and our own, situation doesn’t look good. More like the term, the pooch had been screwed.
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I’m not sure that China intended the imbalanced sex-ratio that happened as a result of the One Child policy. It simply happened as an unintended consequence of implementing that One Child policy prescribed by the West. (Note that that policy is the reason you are not being invaded by the Chinese.)
Unintended consequences have a way of presenting themselves. There may be more unintended consequences of that unintended consequence of the One Child policy to come too.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Yep, in a few years there will be no place to go that isn’t completely feminized. This is why Hitlary took the State Dept. job. I bet she’s shooting for head of the UN.
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“In Japan, there is an entire generation of boys that have refused to co-operate with the work-hard, forehead-to-the-grindstone, grin-and-bear-it mentality of their fathers. What’s worse, women have largely elected not to get married and the birth rate in Japan has crashed.
There’s a disconnect here, between the author’s analysis’ and the quoted article. I don’t think these boys aren’t failing because their not marrying, not going to war, not working in a factory, and acting like “sissies” as you seem to be suggesting.
“but fewer people have experienced what happens when boys and men simply stop participating in life.
I have the suspicion that your definition of males participation in life revolves around traditional male roles, ie “work-hard, forehead-to-the-grindstone, grin-and-bear-it mentality of their fathers”. I’d be curious what your opinions on video games are. By the tone and one reference in the article (admittedly it was in a different context) I might guess you think its unproductive, non traditional, and unmanly since you don’t grit your teeth. I actually think video games are a somewhat redeeming part of modern culture for boys since it offers boys strategy and competition.
Here is the one main problem I fond with regards to boys failing in school, “an environment at home and school that is dominated by women and lacks strong male role models.” and “This is the same old –same old. When you let women and bureaucrats teach your boys“.
I think this would be a source problem for Chinese boys failure in school, in society in general, and for boys across the world (we have the same exact problem here with some similar outcomes). I think you can therefore, universally, call female dominated homes and schools a serious problem for boys. Here is where my philosophy to men’s rights comes out and the main contention I have with this article; I think men are defined first and foremost when boys have male role models and when male bonding is commonplace. I don’t think maleness is defined by some job or some mantra. I say we facilitate men coming together and see where things go from there, and not defining men as factory workers and shove them in some factory (or a marriage for that matter). Essentially, the man makes the job not the job making the man.
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Unlikely as she’s a neo-conservative. Neo-conservatives are deeply suspicious of the United Nations – and much prefer a unilateral system where the United States defines the world agenda – including wars and what wars are legitimate – on its own.
This is all notwithstanding that the UN has no legitimacy after the fall of the USSR in 1991. It existed as a mechanism to broker out power between the post-WWII superpowers – the US (and UK and allies) and Soviet Union (and allies). There was of course the pretense of an “international forum” but that was nonetheless its basic purpose.
After 1991, the United Nations has no raison d’etre.
Not surprisingly, its come to have no sway on real political and military matters – superseded unilaterally by the US.
Vis a vis feminism, there’s significant feminist conceptualization hive at the UN which trickles down into national lawbooks, etc. This is comparable with the feminist hive that is Western academia.
Let’s not be mistaken that “gender mainstreaming” [i.e. feminism/misandry/gynocentrism mainstreaming] is already a large part of the Western system with or without encouragement by the UN. On the real hard power issues the UN has no sway.
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Above is in response to:
“Yep, in a few years there will be no place to go that isn’t completely feminized. This is why Hitlary took the State Dept. job. I bet she’s shooting for head of the UN.”
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“–This is the same old –same old. When you let women and bureaucrats teach your boys, the only option they have is to teach them not to be boys or watch them fail in school.”
I don’t know the history but it is amazing how universal this crap seems to be; its in the west and China. I wonder if it has to do with industrializing society to a high degree. What I mean by this is that fathers work away from the community in highly industrialized communities (lots of temporary relationships) and men and fathers aren’t teaching their kids (schools and women do). I could add more factors but I’m most curious about the history of fathers/men’s involvement in community and kids before and after high degrees of industrialization.
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China is especially peculiar with their skewed sex ratio. Right near India with a similar problem. No amount of neighboring bride market supply will be able to alleviate the dis-equilibrium there. Totalitarianism build up a fast system of skrew you machinery once the idea is in place so they might come fast from behind and compete with Sweden over the most idiotic policies in this realm.
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@ fondueguy
There has been an unrelenting mission to feminize the world by the UN and the US for the last 40 years.
The US was completely feminized by 1970 IMO, and from then on the mission was world wide.
I saw the clear cut signs with a feminist column in every major Asian newspaper I read while I was there which was almost 10 years ago. And it is totally realistic to think it would progress more rapidly in third world countries as the kinks were already worked out in the US and Europe.
In the time it took the manosphere to catch up with what was going on here, the feminists were already there. The folks at the UN are so far down the feminist road they don’t even want to give food to starving men in disaster areas, and proudly proclaim it.
I believe the UN’s purpose is now almost strictly the disemination of feminism.
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I’m excited to see Gorbachev contribute more articles here…his commentary all over the blogosphere is top notch, and this article is no exception.
My question is with regards to Japan: which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Do the boys “drop out” of cultural expectations to work hard…because the women no longer want to get married and make babies? No family…nothing to work hard for.
Or did the Japanese women go on a marriage strike because the boys became unwilling to become worker drone providers?
I suspect the real genesis of the problem started when Japan changed their divorce laws that permitted middle aged housewives to obtain half of their husbands pensions, which caused an epidemic of middle aged divorces. The young men saw what their mothers did to their fathers and decided F**K this marriage crap, let’s play video games!
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What this means is that feminism is a part of our civilization’s evolutionary process. The middle class will breed itself into extinction. Only the very rich and the very poor will grow in population. The middle will simply vanish within two or three generations. Wait until the Census releases the remaining 2010 numbers. The pundits and politicians will be shocked. Nobody here will be.
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We’re definitely heading dark times.
With the post collapse of gender barriers, chaos brimming left and right. I said this before, I will say this again. Feminism is the path to extinction. Our days as the human species are numbered.
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Indeed, SingleDad.
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“There has been an unrelenting mission to feminize the world by the UN and the US for the last 40 years.”
I don’t doubt that but I wonder if the cultures were “primed” to gulp Feminism down because of lack direct male influence on the younger generations. Either way improving fathers rights and increasing male influence in the education system needs to happen.
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Articles like this leave one’s head spinning at the broad ramifications of what we men are dealing with. Political, religious, sociological, biological all come together to render the weak of mind completely baffled.
I for one am trying to synthesize all the messages from the Mens Rights Movement, with a clear goal of undermining and eventually destroying all that is feminism. I have seen its face, and it is only worthy of contempt.
That said, I hope academia plods on in establishing more Mens Studies departments/courses, but my guess is that the establishment will either outright refuse, marginalize, or allow in after far too much damage has been done. That leaves the true philosophers and pioneers to break out into new territory, and whoever among us is sharp enough to pick up on their messages will be able to help the countless others swimming in the above-noted morass of ambiguity and despair.
In the meantime, the meme grows and evolves into something powerful. What form it takes could be simple, or complex. But there is no doubt in my mind that it does guys like me a great service, knowing I have allies and fellow sufferers who also carry the torch.
Carry on, fellow MRAs, despite the complexity!
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The feminist stranglehold on education has been their single greatest success in their ongoing conquest of society and civilization. We need to remain vigilant in our demands to see that a Male-Affirmative school system is created and that it receives at least equal funding to the Female school system.
This is one of the reasons that I get SO ANGRY with the feminists! I hate when they say that they are “protecting women and children.” They don’t care if the boys suffer at the hands of a biased educational system as long as the girls do better in it. They aren’t protecting children at all, they are simply giving preferential treatment to girls so that women can receive superior treatment to men as adults.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; men need to break with their current political affiliations and start their own Political Party. For those of you that think this task to be impossible, I should remind you that due to the “man-cession” there will be nearly 20 million unemployed men in this country by the end of the decade, with millions more underemployed and many more underpaid. The ground is ripe for Revolution and We must plant the Seed.
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OKay I am going off topic here for a moment.
We definitely need heterosexual men to spearhead the men’s movement. At the moment, MRM and the MRA are moving at snails pace.
To stand for men’s rights is to fight alone.
The ongoing battle is ahead of us men. So I am asking you white men, black men, asian men, aboriginal men and other men in different corners of the earth. To drop the bullshit and unite against this cancerous evil we call feminism.
We’re already entrenched in ideological warfare against men.
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I can say that what motivated me finally put my nose to the grindstone in college was the thought of having to support a family.
I wanted to be a husband who could support my childrens mother should she choose not to work, I wanted to be there for my children time wise. These were my motivation.
I was a latchkey kid with both parents working and I wanted better for my children.
If my only concern where how I felt at the time, I certainly wouldn’t have wasted all those years studying with no personal life.
I wasted the years of 18-30. Maybe boys today see it this way too.
Four years of college, 4 years professional school then internships. I really didn’t have a “life” until I was 30, all so I could support a wife to stay home and raise children because I was a latch key kid.
Little did I know, I was preparing for a life that the female half of the species abandoned 20 years before.
What a rube, huh.
So, yeah, I think this may have something to do with boys lack of motivation we see today.
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China I think has at least a general nostalgia for the traditional modes of the past. Im surprised this ancient culture hasnt yet found a way to superboost the young males against the invasion of forign value systems that undermine them. China made the mistake of beccomming communist and destroying systematically ever ancient institution they could shoot a mortor at. They even tore down statues of confucius later to repent this and try to peice togather something to vaguly resemble the treasury of lost knowledge and wisdom ere the communist holocaust. I still have faith in these people nontheless. 5000 years of progress cannot be so quickly destroyed. I know feminism is in the east and hit china the earliest. But i still think things there are far better in comparison to what we have left in the states. No the only hope for america is to move forward into the future. while china can probably benifit from consulting their ancient knowledge and move backward into the future so to speak.
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Women want to turn men into women, yet do not want to sleep with said males. It’s like everything they do is one big shit test. Thankfully, once the artificial womb is made the “undesirable” males will not need to deal with the opposite sex to have kids.
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@Tyrone: “once the artificial womb is made the “undesirable” males will not need to deal with the opposite sex to have kids.”
Why wait for artificial wombs? A man can go to an egg bank and use IVF to fertilize the egg(s) of his choosing, which can then be implanted into a surrogate. It costs less than an Bridezilla wedding, and unburdens strong, independent, American women from the trifecta of misery associated with pregnancy, childbirth, and raising children. Do it for the wimmenz. Think of it as their next frontier of feminist liberation. If you love a woman, you would not want to see her suffer with children. From what I’ve seen, women are much, much happier with successful careers.
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The first shall be last and the last shall be first.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Africa is the point and place where feminism starts getting rolled back in earnest.
I recall a post here talking about Hillary and some comments she made regarding feminism and Africa. Sometimes true greatness lies in simplicity and as simple as the task may look of imposing feminsim on Africa…..you never know.
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Nah…scrap my last post.
We’re going the way of the rest of the world, all we can manage is some damage mitigation, by observing certain extremely detrimental parts of the whole process.
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@ Paradoxotaur
You want to know how big a fool I am? I knew about this technology years before my son was born. Thought about it. I even talked to some women about it in Utah on a ski trip. That was when I could still afford ski trips. The six women I spoke about it to in Utah would have all gone for it. In Utah, apparently, being pregnant is seen as something pleasant, and when they heard I would pay, they were like, bingo!
But like a fool, I thought, aren’t I raising a child as a single father, just like the single moms. Isn’t it child abuse to have a child with no mother?
I thought, I will do anything to stay in this marriage for the sake of my children. I waited till we we’re married 4 years to make sure things were going to be OK.
Of course I didn’t think about the other parties to our marriage, the judge, her attorney, my attorney and my son.
Then one day, with no fighting, no discussion, I came home to an empty house. She had been taught by a PhD professional on how to kill, gut and filet me.
After having been there and done that, I think it is better to raise a child as a single parent than expose them to the divorce industry.
This is very hard learned experience talking.
It cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn. Not to mention the physical and psychologic toll it took on my son and me.
So, if you must have children, buy an egg, rent a womb, before feminists make it illegal for men to do.
Because if you don’t think they are currently writing the laws you are wrong.
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On the other hand, no pun intended, the Japanese are the world’s best at nude photography :
http://www.bobx.com/av-idol/
If only the Chinese and SE Asians would catch up in this department.
And if we’re talking artificial wombs, how about that Elton John and his husband squeezing a baby out of their poop chute? We live in amazing times.
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@ Satyajit Roy
Your assumptions that feminism is helping you in any way are erroneous, you said…”You are speaking from a Western nation where infants are not sex selected for abortion.” Abortion is feminist’s crowning achievement, (most men prefer live children as opposed to dead fetuses). Abortion is created by feminist’s to EMPOWER you and your daughters and free you from the apparent slavery of pregnancy.
You say…”Before we can put a “stop” to feminism in these places there has to be a feminism in the first place.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in_4QhWQaq4&feature=related It’s already there, watch the video, pay particular attention to where she says if “he” doesn’t stop disagreeing with her, she’ll charge him with DV for daring to disagree with a woman.
The plague of feminist abortion has been unleashed on India and you foolishly ask for more feminism.
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@Single Dad: “But like a fool, I thought, aren’t I raising a child as a single father, just like the single moms. Isn’t it child abuse to have a child with no mother?”
A huge portion of humanity has been raised without a mother. Until very, very recently, it was very, very common for a woman to die in childbirth, often with the newborn infant surviving. Using wet nurses, extended family, whatever it took, the dads took care of a lot of families without mothers.
@Keyster: “The middle class will breed itself into extinction. Only the very rich and the very poor will grow in population. The middle will simply vanish within two or three generations.”
The middle class will fail to breed, and hence become extinct. One idea raised on a previous thread (sorry, I can’t remember who to attribute this to) is that society will bifurcate into a patriarchal overclass and a matriarchal underclass- that the rich and powerful will continue to organize around patriarchal families, while the increasingly poor will become matriarchal tribes that are much more easily controlled than middle class families, with welfare bread and social-pogrom circuses.
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Whatever strides that feminism has made into China and other Asian countries, at least single motherhood isnt considered normal there.
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Globalized Capitalism needs to destroy culture, family and nationalism unless it can not conquer the world.
Feminism is the best weapon to destroy anything that it has roots and not shallow
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Satyajit conviniently forgets to mention most likely its the women in the husbands family forcing the bride to abort female babies, no?
I will bet my left butt cheek that “husbands family” includes some women.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Dear Caliph,
I beleive your left butt cheek is in good hands, so to speak. It is unquestionable that the pressure to abort female babies primarily comes from the mother-in-law and her female relatives. Ditto with the so-called bride burnings, etc.
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@ Satyajit Roy
You said…”Legal abortion was never seen as a feminist thing.” Abortion is the very cornerstone of a womans “legal” right to reproduction. This “right” is fought for by EVERY feminist group in the world.
But lets get to the meat of the matter, you said…”Before abortion people some people were drowning their baby girls in tubs of milk.” and…”In India many women who do not want to abort their baby girls are pressured into doing so by their husbands and his family.”
So here we have the REAL reason for your distress, “girls” are being aborted. Heres a little fun fact for ya. There are around 60 MILLION abortions performed worldwide every year and half of them are boys. What, no sympathy for them?
What is the result of a succesful abortion? Heres a little hint, it ain’t a live baby. Abortion is the EXCLUSIVE domain of women. In the past ten years thats 600 million, which I’d hazard a guess is more than the death’s of every wardead in the history of the world. So as you stand there pointing your righteous finger at evil men stare in the mirror a bit and see the face of massacre.
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Asia is not a total lost cause however. I was reading a Singapore National newspaper on Monday and was very much surprised to see a letter (which sounded MRAish) from a young man being published.
In a letter, he denounced the fact that feminists have called for equal rights without equal responsibilities. He further stated that women in Singapore should be subjected to the draft and corporal punishment just as men are.
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@Satyajit Roy December 29, 2010 at 19:34
“Not only is the new daughter in law a slave to her in-laws (both male and female, not just female), but SHE has to PAY THEM for the “honor” of being their slave, in the form of a dowry!”
Then stop fucking paying for your own enslavement Indian woman!!!!!! I mean hot damn, if you have to pay dowry, it means you willingly go into the arrangement, if you dont like the goods ask for a fucking refund. capisce.
Are you listening to the words coming out of your mouth or should i say the words being written by your pen you buffoon.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Umm, its called not marrying a man and being single. All a woman would need to do is find an unmarried man to impregnate her and then support it herself. If she’s going to marry a man in part for his money/status, then she would have to make sacrifices in regards to the marriage covenant (well, SHOULD anyway).
And ask yourself this, if daughters marry under their husbands name, then why exactly would these oppressed ladies’ husband not want to make sure that he has a son to pass all of his earnings and wealth to? Hell, even the mothers you go on about being oppressed over abortion also gain a benefit to this arrangement as the son has a MUCH greater responsibility to provide for his relatives than the daughter in this similar situation.
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@ Satyajit Roy December 29, 2010 at 19:34
You say…”Anyway, it’s a system that no one can understand until they live it – or at least see it with their own eyes,”
I live in a system where a man has no sexual rights, no reproductive rights. A man pays to get married then divorced, he will then pay to have his children held hostage. If he fails to pay this hostage bounty the very taxes he paid into will be used to jail him.
The only rights any man has is to vote, (if every man voted to end abortion their votes would be overturned in the supreme court), a mans vote means nothing. A man has the “obligation” to register for the draft to kill and die in a war not of his choosing, if he doesn’t register he goes to jail.
I don’t believe for a minute you are an ethnic Indian, using a statement like “if you can wrap your head around this” screams feminist troll. Further, myself and many men here have read countless articles on life in India and your sad little tale of woe doesn’t add up.
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“I don’t believe for a minute you are an ethnic Indian, using a statement like “if you can wrap your head around this” screams feminist troll.”
Dead on. Actually the part that suggests to me Saty is a feminist troll in the capitalized words; its just like that one female rant letter about that divorced woman trying to take half her ex’s company.
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If you are who you say you are Satyajit Roy, (which I doubt), white knighting in america has kinda died out for the most part. The politicians do it to get votes and there’s still a few other’s hoping to garnish female approval but thats about it.
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“Young women always knew, and still know, that they are expected to give birth to a MALE child shortly after being wed, whether they want to or not.”
They usually have a male bias because they want him to go out, make money, and give it to his family. He makes money but its never really his… its his wife’s kids and other family members. That is what sounds like slavery; slavery is not doing work that’s less risky and less stressful and getting the same recourses as your husband. She’s unpaid my ass… For a while in the anglosphere women have had more control of the wealth while men were the ones who where making it. Considering the influences mothers have on deciding marriages I highly doubt women wouldn’t be getting much recourses. And that’s the thing mothers are deciding their sons fate as to whom he marries, so don’t give this female vulnerability and male autonomy.
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“India is not like the US or Western Europe. India has not had decades of Feminism. Our women really do need “empowerment”.”
You think men only had problems after a long time of Feminism. Gtgo
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Keoni Galt
A circle has no beginning.
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“And I grew up in a culture where my parents chose my wife for me, even though I was in love with another woman at the time. I sucked it up and went with the arranged marriage”.
Well, in that case blame the parents for choosing a man with a crap family, i’m sure an obedient son like yourself will choose a nice family for your daughter, or better yet maybe try letting her choose for herself.
Maybe thats the problem? You may be more favourably disposed to treating a woman you were in love with and chose better than some random handpicked by your parents mamas boy.
Let me guess, your mother hand a strong role to play in the woman your parents selected more so than your father. Yea or Nay? Please answer this particular question, because if its yea, maybe you can start appreciating the subtle power women have been wielding by proxy, by virtue of father, husband and/or son over the millenia and you can appreciate that at no point in history were women ever powerless.
I’m sure your mom would appreciate this handpicked pride bearing you a son more so than a daugther, right?
You can’t even pick your own bride and you call yourself a man? Pussy.
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You started by saying women are not empowered… yet mother are women you retard. You also ignored male problems in your early posts, again saying his baddddd it is for women. A d now your saying how bad India is compared to the us. Haha, the way you can’t stay on a subject tells me ur a troll. You last post isn’t even relevant here.
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I am Indian, as everyone knows.
The balance of power between men and women in India is actually at a fair equilibrium. It is not oppressive to women in a Saudi manner at all. Women can all go to the same colleges, apply for the same jobs with big international corporations, and do everything a man does.
‘Feminism’ is starting to make inroads into India in much the same way as it did in the US in 1970. The courts and police are starting to interfere in marriages.
There are also many forms of ‘soft’ feminism that exist in India, such as schools having lower fees for girls than boys, widows having a lower income tax schedule, and trains having women-only compartments. But these are minor issues that don’t really affect much.
Women are NOT oppressed in India on a large scale, and certainly don’t need the bogus notion of ‘empowerment’ that in the West has made the average woman much worse off. This narrative is dangerous and bogus. In the middle and upper classes, men work hard all day while their fat wives sleep the whole afternoon.
‘Dating’ is not empowerment for women. It is a game in which the average man and average woman both have it much harder. In India’s arranged marriage system, the average person ends up better off, because they don’t have to waste all their energy and resources on dating. The Indian arranged marriage system demonstrates an EXCELLENT understanding of female pyschology, from everything from dowry to keeping the girl a virgin until marriage to the newlyweds living with the groom’s parents early in the marriage while the babies are young.
I think Satyajit Ray is a woman, not a man.
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Correction: In India men are freer than Indian women, but not totally free.
Dead wrong. Men have to do a lot of difficult things in India that women do not.
In India, women have better safety nets, and people who help guide their lives, which have been stripped away in the West.
In the West, the average woman has 10-15 sexual partners by age 35, and then is no longer able to marry. 41% of children are born to unwed mothers. One out of three conceptions is aborted. Do you want India to be like this?
Then shut the hell up about ‘empowerment’ for women, which is not really empowerment at all.
You are an ignorant fool, Satyajit.
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I don’t believe for a minute you are an ethnic Indian, using a statement like “if you can wrap your head around this”
He/she might be an Indian in lefty Britain, who has been deeply indoctrinated into feminism, which makes him take any feminist criticism of India at face value.
Indians in Britain say ‘wrap your head around’ a lot, and are also manginas/feminists.
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Anyway, nobody here will get it.
Actually, Satyajit, many of the non-Indian commenters here have a better understanding of feminism in India than you do.
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Your not more free because your expected to bring home the Bacon. Only retard feminists say that, which seems to be the perspective your coming from.
Something I’ve seen all around the world is that men take on the most risky and high stress jobs, men have worse health, and more men slip through the cracks and there tends to be less support systems for them. All of this is related to the gender dynamic where women benefit from these higher costs to men. I doubt it isn’t so in India as those factors wouldn’t be curbed without huge effort.. So I don’t buy the female-centric empowerment because they don’t have what men have.
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Something I’ve seen all around the world is that men take on the most risky and high stress jobs, men have worse health, and more men slip through the cracks and there tends to be less support systems for them.
Life expectancy in India, for men, is lower than it is for women, just like everywhere else.
As usual with the feminist narrative, they focus on stats that make women look disadvantaged, while trying to distract everyone from stats where men are disadvantaged.
It is true that among poorer Indians, female literacy is lower than mens by about 10 percentage points. There are also sex-selective abortions (but this hurts men in the long run too, as we know).
By contrast, middle class and wealthy women in India arguably have it even easier than women in the West, as servant labor to do household chores is cheap. Such women spend the entire afternoon sleeping, while the husband has to go out to work. Such women have not a care in the world – at least the Western woman does a job, or has to do her own vacuuming and laundry.
India has lower income tax for widows than everyone else, and girls pay lower fees in schools than boys do. There are also political office quotas for women, and separate train compartments for women only.
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You defeated your own purpose with your guess there, TFH.
Nope. The fact that you dodged all the extensive points I showed means you cannot refute them.
Women are not oppressed in India. The gender balance is equitable there.
You don’t know anything about India, and cannot think for yourself.
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As an Indian and ex-feminist i can say with certainty that Satyajit Roy is brainwashed by the education system and media propaganda like i was four years ago.Give him some time,he will come to learn the negative effects of feminism in India
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All is not lost.
Do you think this is going to go away all buy itself, with no upheavals, no violence?
The solution, of course, is Revolution. Men must seize power from the feminists, globalists, multi-cultists, liberal bureaucrats, etc. By force.
The future is Authoritarian, as much as you guys would like to deny it.
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One interesting fact in the US is that the overall birth rate is around 2.1 kids per adult female, which is almost exactly what is needed for a stable population with neither growth or decline. Some kids don’t survive to reach adulthood, so a rate slightly higher that 2 per female is required.
When the birth rates of conservatives [mostly men who are Republicans and net producers] and liberals [mostly women who are Democratss and net consumers] ar compared, the rate is higher for conservatives than liberals.
In other words, to survive politically, the liberals *must* convert some of the kids of conservatives into liberals, or else demographics will slowly but surely extinguish their cause.
This goes a long way towards explaining why the education establishment in the US is ultra-liberal and hyper-authoritarian to the point that students can’t leave to go to the bathroom without getting a pass from their teacher.
The main mission of the schools in America is NOT education, it’s political indoctrination of liberalism into students.
It’s not a surprise that about 20% of the delegates that nominate the Democratic President are teachers.
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Anyways, I forget to mention that I’m glad to see an article on an East Asian country, especially one bound to be as influential as China.
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OT:
I was reading a baseball blog thread and someone mentioned that a well known college baseball player was involved in a rape scandal. Immediately I thought “another famous person and a false rape accusation, that sucks”.
The kid is a good looking very successful college athlete at a Florida college, he’s gotta be swimming in pussy. What does Occam’s razor tell you about this one?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/27/garrett-wittels-rape-charge-fiu_n_801726.html
“Wittels’ father, an orthopedist, told The Miami Herald that his son would be vindicated. He said his son was “devastated” by the allegations.
“Anyone can accuse anyone of anything at any time,” Michael Wittels told the Miami newspaper ” …
told the newspaper that his son and his friends met the two girls at a casino and they later went to a private party. The girls apparently described themselves as students at the University of Arkansas, he said.”
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As someone who’s had a lot of interaction with Indian Men, Indian Men who aren’t westernized are White Knights at it’s rawest. A lot of the Indian guys I know who work at my uncles IT company are fresh from India and will do anything for a Woman in hopes of sex, since many of them are completely repressed. The westernized Indians who break away from their families crap are usually hostile towards white knights and don’t really associate with the FOB Indians. The FOB Indians in general are basically your stereotypical “nice guy”, not a genuinely good guy, but PRETENDS to act good and nice in hopes for vagina, and will back stab any Man in his quest for vagina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqm-5iR_kPI
Look at all the White Knights come to thy fair maidens rescue. LOL
Don’t take Satyajit Roy seriously, kids a product of India, a thoroughbred white knight. These type of Indian Men are no allies of Mens Rights, they may say they are, but they’re two faced.
Expect more of them to start popping up though, India and Pakistan are rapidly moving away from their traditional cultures and are trying to emulate everything Americans do. It’s kind of creepy, every TV show, movie, whatever in America, has a spin off in India/Pakistan.
The Men in India/Pakistan are clueless though, just as American Men were when Feminism first reared it’s ugly head, they’re desperately trying to escape from their parents’ traditional culture and are trying to emulate Americans, and think since Feminism exists in America, it needs to exist in their country so they can be more like Americans. Not being aware of what the consequences are, in a good 50-60 years India and Pakistan’s familial structures are going to be like Americans I’m betting. Not good.
Good news is, a lot of young American Men I talk to in my daily life are all starting to wake up, because of their parents divorcing, or hearing stories, the word is getting out and young American Men are very skeptical of feminism and many are aware of it’s negative consequences, which many of them have been a victim of personally.
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@Fondueguy,
I agree with you, in fact.
I think you can therefore, universally, call female dominated homes and schools a serious problem for boys. Here is where my philosophy to men’s rights comes out and the main contention I have with this article; I think men are defined first and foremost when boys have male role models and when male bonding is commonplace. I don’t think maleness is defined by some job or some mantra. I say we facilitate men coming together and see where things go from there, and not defining men as factory workers and shove them in some factory (or a marriage for that matter). Essentially, the man makes the job not the job making the man.
What I wrote wasn’t meant to disagree with what you said; I think both contribute to the disenfranchisement and disenchantment of men. We don’t need to rule the roost: But we need our own place and we need the company of other men. Most of all, we need to not be women.
The life offered to the Salaryman in Japan (or Korea or China) is a pretty raw deal, in almost every respect.
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@Satyajit Roy, don’t Women have their own compartments because Indian Men keep trying to molest em?
Well, why does that happen? Probably because Indian Men are deprived of pussy and Indian Men can’t take a crap without letting their Mama know? Probably because Indian Men can’t get any vagina until their mommy goes out and finds them a bride?
What the hell do you think is going to happen with a bunch of sexually repressed Men, you think they won’t become perverted and try to bang anything that moves?
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Oh and Satyajit, why are you talking shit about TFH banging a stripper, you see, in America, banging strippers is something we can do. Like you said, the West is a better place for Men AND Women bro! TFH wanted to bang a stripper so he did, and now you’re saying hes not a proper Indian? Oh you mean the definition of proper Indian which comes from India, the country you are condemning in favor of the West? He’s not a proper Indian because he exercised his freedom to bang a stripper?
Like I said boys, a lot of these guys are white knights.
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On Korea, China and Japan:
The sources of feminism in each are slightly different.
Korea
Korea is profoundly influenced by American culture. Western, generally, but even their word for “foreigner” is just Miguk – American. America and its public culture are the main influence in Korea, and have been for 50 years. Even with Korea’s love-hate affair with Japan and the overwhelming traditional presence of China. So Korea’s feminism has defnite American overtones.
Japan
Japan is, well, it must be said, weirdly Japanese. Feminism as we recognize it never quite took off there; it was on its own schedule and issues it hit were often different. They hit them from different angles, too.
China
China’s feminism is different again. It comes straight through the laser lens of Marxism in its purest form. it goes way, way back to the 50′s, too, when actual programs were enacted to feminize the country in a very serious way, as the powers that be knew that women were an important key to social control and development. And the Chinese don’t mess around.When they sprout movements, they move hard.
It’s still very “patriarchal” in China, at least – for alpha Males. For betas – not so much.
There are lots of tears for women, too, but the system is assuredly skewing in favor of womens’ rights. That is, those rights that are opposed to mens’ rights. We could say “womens’ interests”.
And with a massive surplus of young men, many of these men will never have GFs, let alone wives. If you want to make guaranteed cash, invest in prostitution and female-companionship proffering in China over the next 20 years.
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Satyajit.. when will you stop lying?
“Women in India have no automonous reproductive rights.”?
Really? It takes longer to get a drivers’ license renewed in India compared to the time it takes for a woman to get an abortion (one hour!). A woman can have 3 abortions thru a typical bollywood movie, 1.5 thru a hollywood one! If that is not abundance of abortion rights, I don’t know what is. It is true, Indian women cannot get pregnant on their own, but that is the situation all around the world (notable unproven exceptions are various ancients!). I was horrified to see a “One hour abortion Clinic” advertisements all over the place. But then something has to be done to maintain the “Sati-savitri” image of sexually liberated unmarried Indian women who are perpetually “treated badly” with no evidence of such whatsoever.
Lets start lying now.. shall we?
Of course, Indian women are treated badly. They don’t get free passes for killing children of OTHER PEOPLE, including babies.. although Amnesty International pleads for such. They are not given free education. Their travel needs are not prioritized over that of everyone else. Others are not required to pay for their expenses (payers include children!). They cannot conveniently make the life of their in laws into hell for the grevious offense of not obeying their dictates and giving in to their demands. They cannot get men killed just to feel better about themselves.
LOL! that is all I can lie about. Sorry, can’t go on lying based on what someone told me about something somewhere. I live in India and I am not blind.
Here is the bed rock thing – you can take your garbage propaganda elsewhere. As an Indian man, I agree with TFH.
“You are an ignorant fool, Satyajit.”
Travel in the local trains here, for example, and you will see often the way women exploit/use their own children, instead of working themselves! One painful memory is of a young boy acting as if he is a monkey, while his mother played his handler. A healthy young Indian woman could find many other ways of earning money.. but she chose to make her son into a monkey.. isn’t India grand?
I don’t expect them to be any nicer to anyone else. If you can – enter the real India and understand it. You will find that all you have been taught about Indian women is propaganda and mostly lies.
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@Satyajit Roy
“Or don’t you live with your Mama? If not, you’re not a proper Indian son.”
ROFLMAO, Did you just diss a full grown man for not still living at home with his mama? Holy Guacamoly lololololololololololol.
Your Indian culture is wierd if this qualifies as an actual insult to a full grown man. If this is truly the Indian perspective the Chinese have nothing to fear from you guys being their main antagonists for the latter part of the 21st century.
WTF, he should be ashamed for not being a mamas boy?
TFH your mission should you accept it is to go and start teaching Indian men what the 21st century paradigm of a man is as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
Even Arabs with their strict cultural mores only keep girls at home till they marry, boys are actively encouraged to move out of the house asap and be autonomous.
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I saw you comment elsewhere that you dated a stripper. What kind of Indian does that?
er…perhaps an Indian who CAN do that?
My parents are a lot more modernized than yours, apparently.
es anyone in your family want to move back there?
I might. I know Indian men who married Romanian and Russian white women, and got them to move to India and live there.
You dodged the issue of why there has to be women only compartments on trains,
This exists only because manginas like you want to pedestalize women. Even in the West, this level of special treatment of women does not exist.
And with great cowardice, you dodged my question :
In the West, the average woman has 10-15 sexual partners by age 35, and then is no longer able to marry. 41% of children are born to unwed mothers. One out of three conceptions is aborted. Do you want India to be like this?
You clearly don’t have the courage to answer this, faggot.
DevilDog described the whiteknighting of Indians greatly. Satyajit Roy is exactly the type of loser as those in America in 1969, who decided that women were ‘oppressed’, and that sucking up to them (and thus making himself repulsive to them) would be his life’s mission.
Look at that clip of a man being beaten on a gameshow just for defending himself from a woman. That, in fact, would not happen on a live television program in America.
Yet TFH favors sexual repression and arranged marriages for Indians in India
Satyajit Roy prefers that 41% of children be born to single mothers, as in America. Yet, Satyajit Roy would be repressed even in America, since male feminists like him are uniquely repulsive to women.
Satyajit Roy, go learn about Game, and how to be a pickup artist.
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Molestation statistics are grossly exaggerated like feminist rape statistics in the west.If Indian women are so afraid of men then why do they travel alongside men in neutral compartments?
It’s not really a double standard,arranged marriages have the least divorce rate in urban areas of India.
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OK i think i get where this Satyajit guy is coming from.
Heres my pyschoanalysis of the guy, the reason he wants feminism is so that Indian women can be more accessible sexually and a mans only hope for poon wont be some random ugly or hot chick that his mama selects for him for life.
Dont you get it guys, Satyajit wants the option of being able to BANG STRIPPERS if he wants just like TFH and he’s magnanimous enough to want it for all Indian men. A true altruist.
The man in a round about way is a PUA, he understands only feminism can free Indian women enough so Indian men can enjoy the hedonistic poon taken for granted in the West.
The mans problem is lack of pussy and the option to purloin those pussies even if they were available.
Makes sense now.
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Satyajit,
I know nothing about India – less than nothing, actually. I’m sure what I know bears no connection to reality.
What has struck me, though is the difference between classes. I’m wondering: the elite women, does their experience of feminism/women’s interests have anything to do with the middle-lower classes’ experience of them?
I’m guessing it’s like this: People comment on how Pakistan at least had a female leader. But others pointed out that Benazir Bhutto’s leadership was predicated first and foremost on her being Benazir *Bhutto*.
Same in India.
Which means – I’m guessing that the effects of any kind of feminism will be profoundly different depending on the class of the woman.
East Asia is the only place I’m familiar with (I speak a couple of the languages, so my familiarity is pretty spot-on, as I interact with locals pretty intimately and read/watch/work with the local media).
But I also know that in places like Kerala, where I’ve been very briefly, society can be very female-centric – again, in that case, due to pretty mainline marxism.
In the US, it’s cultural marxism that’s infected our intellectual elite like a contagious rash that’s brought us much of this (especially of the Mackinnon and Dworkin variety).
What exactly is spurring this on in other parts of mainstream India?
Where is the influence coming from?
And is there any?
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Not all states of India are patriarchal.The 7 sister states of north-east India are matriarchal.Even a decade ago many teenage boys of north eastern states were moving to Tamil Nadu to escape their families,my brother had 21 classmates from north east,all of them detested their culture.Yet there are feminists from north-east states who don’t want to give up their birth rights or share property rights.Some castes in Kerala are matrilineal,men have to take the surname of wife after marriage,children are given the surnames of mother and women have all the property rights.
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Satyajit Roy,with every post of yours,you sound like you get your ideas from popular culture.
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Wow this article is eye opening,it reminds of Barbarossaa’s video on youtube the roots of feminism!
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@Satyajit,
I did say I know nothing about India. I’ve been to Kerala and the place does seem very strongly influenced by Communism/Marxism, though not in a devastating way.
But educate me on the subject. It *does* sound pretty miserable for men and women.
A PUA there might get drummed out of town, I suspect.
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@Satyajit Roy, even with all that said, you opted for an arranged marriage, continue to strictly follow Indian culture from India, and obey everything your parents tell you to do.
Basically, India’s system is creating unhappy, miserable marriages as a result of arranged marriages. But the thing is, America has the highest divorce rates in the world, 70% which are initiated by Women who destroy the Mans life in the process, also the children’s life. Single Mother homes are dominant in the ghettos, they breed mass dysfunction and poverty, a good 80% of America’s prison population comes from single mother households.
Oh and, why don’t you divorce your wife and let HER be free? She and you are a product of arranged marriage, are you happy? Is she happy? You wanted to be with another Woman but were pressured into an arranged marriage, she probably also loved someone else and was pressured into an arranged marriage. I’m assuming you live in America and she does also, you being an Indian-American, could not deny the arranged marriage?
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Gorbachev,
I don’t know which part of India Satyajit lives in.. but a indian man with adequate PUA skills can get laid pretty much anywhere in India. A lot of satyajit says is based on utter lies. He asked you to look up “eve teasing” as a major problem – Why does he not provide any evidence for it? Well, because THERE IS NO EVIDENCE!
Actually its not a problem anymore than murder or theft is a problem. Media is hypersensitive, people are hypersensitive and so it is MADE to seem as if it is pervasive. It is akin to “1 in 4 women are raped” propaganda in the west.
Why are women only compartments allocated to women? Because the railways are socialized and democratic governments love to propagate myths about the “oppressed” status of women. You will not find such special treatment anywhere else in private sector, because it does not make sense. Indian govt on the other hand can afford (on the backs of men) such nonsensical gestures in an attempt to be the NEW protector-provider to the Indian female.
Here is a common sense test.
Approximately 50% of the population is female, and there are only 10-20% female only compartments on any train. Given those figures you would imagine women only compartments to occupied more heavily than mixed compartments. Well, this simple test does not pan out in real world.
You will notice that female only compartments are less crowded than the mixed ones. You will also notice that there are females traveling in those crowded compartments rather than traveling in the female only compartments. Now does that square with the molestation claims?
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Satyajit,
“Indians like TFH don’t want to see India become like the US with high divorce rates and single moms but they sure as heck ain’t breaking down doors or international borders to live in India.”
Now you are just putting words in other people’s mouths. Is high divorce rate a desirable thing? Do you want it? What is wrong with not wanting a high divorce rate or culture of single motherhood (or fatherhood for that matter) ?
And why would anyone want to live in the socialist paradise of India? To suffer poverty and humiliation everyday? To risk lives like sheep? or to ride the human cattle cars? To Indians like you I say.. enjoy your paradise, I am glad to be out of there.
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In Japan, Internet-fu says that women got the vote in the 50′s, so I’m gonna guess that it took off from there. Women resented (and still do) being in arranged marriages to betas and the traditional role that any sane society gives to them to being subservant to them, so they fought tooth and nail for avoid that and dedicate themselves to their own version of Sex and the City.
Women are the same everywere, so, for not having to assert their authorities over them all the time (which consumes a lot of time and energy), men decided to create institutions that did it for them.
The succesful ones (Western civilizations) are the ones that set a series of moral codes and shamed everybody that broke them instead of using violence (that leads to the same problem AND warps the sexuality of its citizens). That’s why women hate slut shaming, because it’s effective at controlling them.
In short: This is a zero-sum game. Either women rule or men do. Our own sexual imperative is enough reason to justify our fight, but we are also the ones that create civilization to stand defiant against nature. Is a worthy cause, civilization is superior. It allows it citizens to live better lives.
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And your confusion lies in your not having experience as a western man.
While there may be some useful lessons in observing the peculiar male-female dynamics of Indian society, ultimately it’s not necessary for us in the west to understand India in order to find effective solutions for our own society.
To put it bluntly, you’re on your own. It’s not our responsibility in the west to sacrifice our self-interests as men just to accommodate Indian or other non-western societies.
The West is very different from India. We are proposing changes and solutions that are suited for our society, not yours. The kinds of desired changes suitable for Indian society may end up being very different from what we in the west would find suitable or desirable for us.
But as long as you’re happy with the result, then it’s not much of a concern for us in the west. Making the necessary changes best tailored to Indian society is your responsibility, not ours.
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Feminism can’t possibly last.
Either we will be forced to reverse it as male dropping out of lives will start to destroy the society, or women, by reproducing only to the manliest individual, will ensure the subjugation of the future generations of women.
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TFH December 29, 2010 at 23:23
“You dodged the issue of why there has to be women only compartments on trains,…’
My guess would be ; so they can conspire against their husbands/boyfriends in private.
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Thanks for this insightful article, Gorbachev. I have lived in Japan for many years, speak and read the language, and have continued to be professionally engaged with it, so this discussion is of particular interest to me. It has been my observation that, outside of the academy, feminism doesn’t have the positive chachet in Japan that it seems to have here in the states. I have met few Japanese women who personally identify with it. And, while Japanese women grouse a lot about men as women anywhere do, it seems to be done with a lot less bile; differences between the sexes appear to be regarded more as a matter of fact, and the repartee between them strikes me as less hate-driven. And yet, though the word term “feminism” doesn’t carry as much clout there, its prejudices and agenda still creep in under other guises. For example, Japanese women have this odd prejudice that men simply can’t handle money, and in most households the man turns his paycheck over to his wife and gets an allowance in return. To their credit, most Japanese wives manage the household finances admirably, and many men in fact don’t seem to have a good sense of personal finance, but that’s simply a self-fulfilling prophecy: men are often infantilized by their wives. They seem to do fine with money before marriage, but after getting hitched and being put on an allowance, they are often reduced to trying to weasel more cash out of their wives, and when they get it, it often goes to the obligatory “tsukiai,” or after-hours socializing with drink.
Men are put under tremendous strains with their work. In an ordinary office, greater expectations are placed on male employees to demonstrate their loyalty by working extra hours (or by after-hours socializing), while the female employees can go home. This leads to the problem of the absentee father, the target of much female complaining, but on the other hand, if he slights his work and comes home early, he is derided as being without ambition, another potential target of his wife’s discontent. So he’s in a real catch 22 situation: damned if he works late, and damned if he doesn’t. Then, when he finally retires and has been able to cultivate no hobbies or outside interests because of being overworked, then he’s suddenly around his wife all day (probably for the first time in their marriage), she finds that after years of having the run of the house all by herself and a good deal of independence, he just gets on her nerves, and she calls him “sodai gomi” (oversize garbage) and, in many cases, divorces him. (The post-retirement divorce rate is soaring.) I’ve seen very little treatment of this phenomenon in the mainstream Japanese media that shows even a shred of sympathy for what the men go through.
In Japan, as in most countries, the male suicide rate is much higher. It’s especially high among men who have lost their jobs through downsizing. I’ve read of some men who have lost their jobs but could not bring themselves to tell their wives, so they would put on a suit and tie, and go sit in the park all day until time to come home. They would keep up this charade until they worked up the nerve to off themselves, or until their wives found out. Again, the coverage of such items often seemed to emphasize the weakness of the men (as irresolute) and the victimhood of the women (they are being deceived, the poor dears).
There is the beginning of a men’s movement in Japan, and there are some good anti-feminist blogs and websites. Anyone here who reads Japanese might want to check some of them out:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/CollegeLife-Cafe/3867/
http://www.geocities.co.jp/WallStreet-Bull/5799/
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/study/3064/
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Well this article is good news to me. I’ve never been a fan of the expat as a way for a man to escape femminism. I am a fan of expat as a way to get at femminism with a little sexual competition for the femminist. More and more I truely believe in the principles of MGTOW. As single dad stated his motivation for achievement was to create proper home for his own family, a home he didn’t have. It works both ways a man will not be motivated to achieve to avoid the trap he is seeing all around him. The newest pop kick of the false rape charge is another nail in the coffin containing mens motivation to society. MGTOW as a natural culture of civilized man. will allow men to have the drive to invent and acheive while minimizing the foolish penalties placed on such men. The state and femminism will not benefit is such a culture.
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Maybe I’m echoing other commentators here. The post brings up really important stuff but the analysis either doesn’t gel or is directly contradicted by the info presented in the same post. Spoiled only-child boys (culled from selective abortions of massive numbers of girls), in an obviously male-dominated culture and political set-up like China’s, are not, whatever else they are, products of “feminism.” There are somewhat different but broadly similar problems with the analysis of South Korea and Japan (and the link takes me to an article about shut-ins, totally socially incapacitated people, not about male “herbivores”functioning but feminized male teens or adults). Putting all this at the door of Western feminism is implausible. Feminization, or diluted gender roles and identities with no good role models, is not the same thing as feminism. That’s the lesson of the post itself if you read past the analysis and just look at the data. It could be the effects of modernization/industrialization/compartmentalization in general. Anyway, this is my short version take away: male identity problems and gender role confusion in China, South Korea and Japan are almost certainly not caused by feminism.
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As an MRA, I am truly shocked that CHINA can have feminist problems
As an Indian residing in India, I declare Satyajit Roy to be a woman-worshipping wuss. His name indicates he(he?) is a Bengali. Bengalis are the few hindus who worship Goddesses rather than Gods, -their fave festival being Durga Puja,9 day long veneration of the Goddess.
For mysterious reasons, Bengalis have a reputation of being
a)cowardly
b)treacherous(Bengalis betrayal of each other handed the British their first(or was it 2nd?) major conquest in India. Battle Of Plassey 1757.)
c)indisciplined(The British decided not to recruit Bengalis into their army as they frequently revolted)
c)talkative(love to give you their opinion.In detail. Without being asked for it.)
For even more mysterious reasons, Bengal has had more than 3 decades of unbroken(and continuing) communist rule. Kerala comes second with roughly 2 decades.
[Aplologies to any bengali/Indian MRAs reading this,The way I see it, if this jerk can criticise certain sections of his own country, so Can I.]
Hence I believe this slimeball is a Marxist b****** himself.
Anyway, before I lose my shirt, I wanted to point out something.
In India, abortion of female fetuses is NOT called abortion. It is called Female FOETICIDE.
(Little known fact about Bengal:The number of women OUTNUMBER the men)
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little known fact about dowry deaths, or general “oppression ” of wives in India i.e. squabbling, “mental torture” etc-
the dirty little secret is…
(drum roll please)
Mostly, the mum-in-law is the instigator. There are sections in prisons in India (like In Delhi) reserved for Mom-in laws.
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In school and college, I remember one thing.
When we discussed women’s rights or women’s empowerment.
the girls who demanded these entitlements the loudest were the most powdered, wearing most expensive stuff.
The girls from humble background remained rather silent.
Never could figure it out.
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of course, India must be a patriarchy. That is why men suffering from prostrate cancer commit suicide here!
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No, I’m not done ranting yet.
In Indian,train compartments being reserved for women has nothing do with molestation.
Proof of this comes from the simple fact that women happily travel in normal compartments as well.
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No, train comparments for women are the same as the back of the bus for blacks and that’s all it is. The reasons given are the same.
Soon, women will request seperated drinking fountains because men are pigs and spread disease (like jews in nazi Germany).
What a bunch of bulls@#t.
But in the US we at least knew this war wrong.
Now we call the advent of second rate slave status for half the population, male, progressive. When will the progressive work camps (Concentration Camps) be open? Oh, yeah, I forgot 12 % of black men are in concentration camp at any time in our police state.
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Edit: Sorry “war” was supposed to be “was”.
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@single dad
I had a big argument over women only carts at reddit.
Basically giving a separate cart to only a certain class of people is not a valid way of fighting crime because it makes only one group safer and puts too high a priority on one type of crime. With those two separate carts the government could just ignored the safety on the mixed cart (yes women still have both options). It essentially says women are priority victims who deserve special treatment, and never mind that more crime happens to men.
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Also if you separate by sex you could just as well separate by race, age, judicial history, economic status, because they all have very different crime rates. Having a black bus or a poor people bus in public transportation would be discrimination, and people know that.. but as soon as it comes to women they fail to make the connection
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Lastly, molestation is not a big deal (as an adult). Its happened to me numerous times (all women) and I’ve also been mugged once (only threats of violence), guess which I find worse.
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[[I see you’ve never been to India. Good for you. Stay out.]]
Wrong, roshogulla. I have lived in India me whole life. Still am.
[The reason why women travel in mixed compartments in the areas where there are some separate ones is because they HAVE to. The women only compartments are too full.]
Liar. I have seen the coaches run half empty. Ditto for seats reserved for women in buses.
[[India is a population of over 1 billion. We have to ride ON TOP OF busses too!]]
Tell me something I don’t know. Oh, and by the way, you will never find gals on the top of them buses.
[[Anyway, public sexual harrassement, especially on transportation, is a HUGE issue in India.]]
You’re lying again. guys who sexually harass girls publicly run the risk of being bashed. They can only think about doing it if they have sufficient gang members nearby .
[[Indians ourselves debate whether having gender segregated compartments only adds to the problem or excaberates it, since the problem arises from our socially segregated and sexually repressed culture in the first place.]]
lol. Typical “progressive” thinking. No the “problem” does not arise from sexually reprssed culture. You are spouting new age politically correct bull-s***.
[[What I’d like to see is a healthy approach to sexuality in our country, but that ain’t gonna happen anytime soon in a place where even LEGAL ADULTS have to sneak around their parents’ back just to go on a date!]]
First Point-
1)No one gives a damn what you want to see
2)There is no “healthy ” “approach to sexuality” needed
3)Legal adults have to sneak around heir parent’s back? I have personally known teenagers doing the same-including having sex. The “sneaking around” thing is done mainly to keep the GIRL’s reputation intact.
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These uh “facts” you are vomitting about India are nothing but propaganda. Pure politicall corrected LIES.
So beat it.
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Gee Red, men here will be calling you a ‘conspiracy nutter’ soon..
Our guvments couldn’t possibly be poisoning us on purpose could they. http://www.policestateplanning.com. Yes, they are. And they are committing genocide. I have been telling people about this for over two years now. Guess some others are finally starting to wake the f*** up eh?
And then there are the guys still completely asleep and not aware that feminism is communism in drag and that it is only normal that all communist countries are highly feminised. Anyone who reads about russia 1917-36 gets it. I sent a wack of links to a mate of mine recently and he was shocked at how bad it got in russia so quickly after feminism struck via Lenin. There were ‘massive crop failures’ and ‘millions starved to death’. Sure there were. Because the men stopped working. Duh. And what is NOT talked about is what the men did when there were ‘massive crop failures and millions starved’. You think the men just laid down and starved to death? Or do you think they took food off women and children to survive? Russia. 1917-36. Tells you everything you need to know if you bothered to read about is and read between the lines.
Nope. It is the implementation of Agenda 21 alongside codex alimentarius. Here is what the UN has to say about Agenda 21.
http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
Most people have NO IDEA what this is about. It’s about reducing the global population to 500M. Oops. That’s gonna kill a lot of ‘women and children’….which is why men need to be so abused they won’t defend them. I’ve been saying this for two years but no-ones listening.
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After WWII, women were encouraged by the American victors to pursue formal schooling and employment outside the home to a degree that was unknown to pre-1945 women (and their fathers and husbands) in Asia. There were also the same downgrading of domestic and motherhood roles and responsibilities, along with divorce, child-custody,and spousal support reforms more-or-less on the American pattern. In “democracies” like Japan, women were also given the right to vote and hold office on a par with men.
They are indeed copying all of the mistakes of the West, especially in regard to formal schooling for women, delayed marriage–with daughters having more of an independent choice whom to marry–and increased freedom to work and live outside the parental home, with little or no supervision, which I think accounts for the disagreeable, if not perverse, female pathology discussed in the above article.
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got!! This is, of course, as true in Asia as it is in the USSA!
As far as men are concerned, I am sure that cultural factors play a part, but one must also consider the long term effects of wars in the region, e.g. the Japanese-Chinese conflict of 1937-1945, the other millions killed or maimed by the horrors-on both sides–of the Chinese civil war between Kuomintang and Red Chinese after WWII, the famines and frightful hardships endured by both men and women under Communist regimes like Mao Zedong and Kim Il-sung, the ongoing misery in the Northern half of the Korean penninsula, the experiences of many millions of Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians between 1945 and 1980, the hardships (bordering on genocide) of minorities in mainland China today, such as Tibetians and Uigurian Muslems…
After two generations of this, is it possible that the Asian-Nothern Pacific genomes have been depleted to an extent comparable to, if not greater than, the (mostly) northern European genome in the first half of the twentieth century, along with Russia and Eastern European nationalities until 1991?
The total cost of XXth century war and statism for the human race, even to the “victors”, is probably incomputable, and will never be accurately known, but it surely must be immense. Our Great grandparents and their contemporaries made a great deal noise about the “glory” of war and conquest, and even “saving the world” in 1914–and even in 1939! I think that mankind–especially the male 49% today–is paying for their arrogance and folly in ways that were barely imagined then!
Food for thought!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
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“Anyway, public sexual harrassement, especially on transportation, is a HUGE issue in India.”
Huge issue in the newspapers in India. What I see is seats for women reserved as “for ladies” and the drivers trying their best to make “ladies” comfortable in their seats. Yeah, they might not know how to make a sentence in english, but they make sure to call them that.
I have lived for the most part in UP, but seems to be true even in north-east where I live these days, in Kolkata where I was recently, and the situation doesn’t seem to be different down south.
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100322003332AAcOEXy
“What I’d like to see is a healthy approach to sexuality in our country, but that ain’t gonna happen anytime soon in a place where even LEGAL ADULTS have to sneak around their parents’ back just to go on a date!”
It’s been years since that MMS scandal, where have you been?
“What I’d like to see is a healthy approach to sexuality in our country”
sex-education FTW, eh?
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And you wouldbe wrong. Men need to break with their GUVMENT and for a new guvment.
He happens to be right. I govern myself. Why would ANY man want to be governed by someone else? Why are you begging to be governed (govern-control, ment-mind…..mind control)
You and me BOTH SD.
You and me BOTH SD. The good thing now is that I am free and loving my life. That’s why I tell the young men…do NOT get married. It is insane now.
China was a communist country for a long time. Communism is feminism in drag. You can not have read the communist manifesto and NOT know it defines feminism.
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@Satyajit Roy
You believe in the gender equality BS fairy tale. You believe in the innate benevolence of feminism and feminists. That’s all we need to know.
You are our enemy.
You make it sound as though it’s a bad thing.
How many batteries do they need?
Maybe a baby girl is a money-losing investment right from the start, especially to rural, poorer families? She’s physically weak, can’t take over the family name/business, and when she marries her family has to pay a dowry.
In China with its one child policy, if you can have only one child, make sure that child is a valuable asset and not a liability to you.
Oh, by the way, I find it highly curious that you rage against female infanticide, when your feminist matriarch darlings are staunchly pro-choice. They are also the same folks who invariably allow a pussy pass when a woman commits (sometimes fatal) violence against a child or a grown man.
Heh. You obedient self loathing mangina.
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I believe the number of men killed in wars and purges was about 200 million last century. Guvments kill more people than any other non natural cause.
Of course, the UN proudly boasts that about 2 BILLION abortions have takeb place. But, of course, there could not possibly be any organised ‘depopulation agenda’. It just ‘so happens’ that after 10,000 years of women having quite a few babies that in the last 40 years the birth rate around the world has halved or gone down even more in some places. Even in India birth rates have halved.
I know, just a co-incidence, nothing to worry about….that birth rates halved in the period 2 BILLION babies were aborted. I am sure glad I can hand onto my co-incidence theory blanket like that character in charlie brown comics. Makes me feel all warm and safe, eh?
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“Anyway, public sexual harrassement, especially on transportation, is a HUGE issue in India.”
No it isn’t.
If you think it is, you should be advocating that women wear a burqa.
This makes Satyajit Roy a misogynist.
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Interestingly, in germany young women and young men will usually sit on a tram or train and not give up their seat for an old woman unless they are sitting in a designated ‘older persons seat’. The youngsters in germany take the view that the old women are ‘equal’. It’s quite a surprise the first few times you see it.
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Satyajit Roy is one of those ‘third gender’ woman worshippers like those who beat up a man on that Indian game show.
If anyone wants to see how manginas who can’t get laid devolve into a ‘third gender’ devoted to the purpose of whiteknighting, see Satyajit Roy. It is his type who made America a misandric society, and seek to do the same in India.
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Long time reader, but this is my first post. Just wanted to contribute my perspective on Japan.
I have not lived in Japan, but I have visited several times for weeks at a time and I work with many Japanese people from many different companies on a daily basis, so I’m speaking from that perspective.
The mass withdrawal of men, and to some extent women, from society is more from disillusionment with cultural expectations rather than feminism, IMO. Gorbachev has it right that Feminism in Japan is….odd and deals primarily with issues that are not really applicable to the West.
In the past, boys were told to study hard, go to a good school, get a job as a salaryman, marry early and slave hard for the family. The premise was that the company that hired you would take care of you for life. Women also went to school to get a job, but typically as a secretary or as the “tea lady”, with the heavily implict understanding that they would quit once they got married, normally before they reached the dreaded age of 25. From the 70s to about 1990, this actually worked out quite nicely.
Then, the Japanese economy infamously decided to go nuke itself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)
Companies could no longer guarantee to keep their employees forever, but yet demanded the same labor from the men. Boys raised in that generation watched their fathers get laid off despite all their hard work and dedication, through no real fault of their own. Many of the Japanese men I deal with still either work extremely long hours or work heavily overseas and see their families maybe two weeks per year, and yet, none of them have any particular job security. Furthermore, because Japan has been in a constant state of deflation, the wages are not high enough to raise your own family, and they are still going down. So many of them now ask “what is the point of all this then” and withdraw from society, either becoming hikikomori or NEETs, or turning into freeters to hustle enough to sustain themselves.
There is a “marriage strike” for women as a result, but it’s mostly involuntary. Most of the women I deal with thought they were going to be married by 25 and were actively trying to do so, even trying to get their parents to get arranged marriages set up (omiai), but when men start withdrawing, then the whole plan starts to fall apart. A lot of them mentally give up after they reach 30 and seem to be living examples of that famous Taylor Caldwell quote:
“There is no solid satisfaction in any career for a woman like myself. There is no home, no true freedom, no hope, no joy, no expectation for tomorrow, no contentment. I would rather cook a meal for a man and bring him his slippers and feel myself in the protection of his arms than have all the citations and awards and honors I have received worldwide, including the Ribbon of Legion of Honor and my property and my bank accounts. They mean nothing to me. And I am only one among the millions of sad women like myself.”
So Japan is still a pretty good example of what happens when men decide to start withdrawing en masse from society.
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Interesting post Fuji.
Minor correction : “salaryman”, I think you meant “sararyman”.
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@Satyajit Roy,
I haven’t commented in awhile but I’ve got to back up TFH and MGHOW here. If you think equality = harmony, think again. Nature abhors a vacuum. When men stop chasing women for fear of legal retaliation, women will only pick up the slack where men left off. This means women will become aggressive, slutty, and masculine. This is your equality in action. Bastard children raised with spiked hair and tats. You know little of psychology. I suggest you read Roissy. Equality sounds good, sure. We took the poison pill here in the West several decades ago. Now one third of all pregnancies are aborted. Almost half of all children are raised by ‘rockin single mamas’. Good luck to you, buddy. You’re going to need it.
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Tim, India does not have a dating culture. Adult men and women are not allowed to date throughout most of the country. This is what I’m talking about. India needs to drop the arranged marriage b.s. and allow a healthy, functioning dating culture to emerge. I’m not talking about “pick up” culture here – but more like the 1950s West where young people were allowed to date, often with a view towards marriage, and choose their own spouse.
It doen’t have to be “either/or” – repressed sexuality/arranged marriage vs slutdom. There is a medium and that medium is called “dating”.
The sexual harrassement that takes place on Indian public transportation is not about “chasing women” in order to get a girlfriend or even get laid. It’s about not being allowed any healthy, socially accepted sexual outlet, even when you are a GROWN MAN, and therefore being so pent-up and desperate that you have cop feels on the bus!
How do I know? I’ve been there. I’ve done it.
I would have much rather have been allowed to have a girlfriend – openly, with the blessings of my parents.
Again, the men here are Westerners and have no idea what it’s like to grow up in a culture where dating and choosing your own spouse is still considered taboo.
I googled around and found a PUA student who’s company placed him in Rajasthan, India. He wrote on a blog that meeting women in India was impossible. He said
1. where he was there was 1 woman in public to about 20 men
2. there were no “hang out” places where men and women mingled
3. the men held hands and it looked “gay” to him, as if they were compensating for not being allowed to mix and mingle in a healthy way with women, so they turned to each other instead
All of the above is true for most of India outside of a few urban centers.
This type of a set-up is dangerous for not only women, but for us men too.
Again I ask you – would you want to live like this?
Sure, the arranged marriage system ensures that practically every man gets a wife, but in the mean time you grow up in a HOMOSOCIAL environment that makes some men so desperate that they take to homosexual activity to compensate.
Is this what you want for the United States?
Look, if I wanted the US to be like India, I would have never left India.
Anyway, you are Westerners and these things are foreign to you so I don’t expect complete understanding here, but the bottom line is that it is NOT psychologically healthy – for either sex – to live like this.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Satyajit Roy
You are like a child, you care about women to the exclusion of men, children, morality and honor.
You need some medicine. I recommend you put an ad up on Match.com
Find a nice single mom who likes long walks on the beach, fine dining, traveling and a man who loves her children and animals (that’s all of the women right?).
You’ll need lots of money, she’ll want to be wined and dined while you pay the sitter, nothing in life is free, certainly not sex, it’s all prostitution.
Then marry her and just watch what happens.
Then, a few years after you haven’t seen your kids, your daughter is screwing the local pot dealer and your son tells you to go f yourself, then come back here and tell us all about how great it was.
Really, you seem to deserve it.
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The Indo-mangina wrote :
I know that many Indians in the West suffer from an inferiority complex in front of their Western peers
You clearly do. You need to correct this defect in your psychology.
Women are not treated poorly in India, and you clearly know much less about India than even the non-Indians here. As I explained, middle class women in India have the easiest of lives. ‘Eve teasing’ is complete bullshit, and only a virgin mangina like you would actually pretend to be offended by it.
You seem to want India to become a place where 41% of children are born out of wedlock. You are sick, just like those manginas on the game show video.
Your disapproval is merely a confirmation of my own beliefs (which, unlike yours, are backed up by evidence).
So here is a question for you (although you are too much of a coward to answer it, which is why you are repulsive to women) :
Do you approve of the man on the gameshow being beaten up by the third-gender manginas? Yes or no?
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lol. American-style feminism is all about men getting beat up. Look at this video:
The Real Basis of Women’s Power
You honestly want that in your country?
…
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Don’t worry Satyajit, India had the VAWA, are busy putting grandmothers in prison and destroying your families.
I think you’ll get your wish soon.
Hitlary Clinton is working hard as she can to make sure all the worlds families are destroyed, transformed into mother and children only, that is her personal philosophy, she is proud of it.
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What I want in my country is for adults to be allowed to date and choose their own spouses.
Even though you would be lonely in such a system?
Anyway, if you knew anything about female psychology, you would know that removal of Indian-type controls on women leads to 80% of women having sex with 20% of men. This eventually leads to 41% of children being born out of wedlock, and the bottom 80% of men enslaved by the state to finance the single motherhood.
This idiot Satyajit thinks monogamous marriage happens naturally……Ha!
He is just not qualified to discuss the subject of sexual psychology.
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Satyajit, you still have to answer this question :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqm-5iR_kPI
Do you approve of the man on the gameshow being beaten up just for defending himself from a woman in the above video? Yes or no?
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Single Dad, regarding those grandmothers in jail, aren’t you happy that at least India is holding women accountable for their crimes? Like Alpha said above:
“little known fact about dowry deaths, or general “oppression ” of wives in India i.e. squabbling, “mental torture” etc-
the dirty little secret is…
(drum roll please)
Mostly, the mum-in-law is the instigator. There are sections in prisons in India (like In Delhi) reserved for Mom-in laws.”
So, you think those criminals should go free just because they are women?
@ TFH: “Even though you would be lonely in such a system?”
I wasn’t lonely. I had a girlfriend. But I had to hide it from my parents, AS AN ADULT MALE! And I did not get their “blessings” (Indian code word for “permission” to marry her).
You Westerners obviously have no idea how oppressive Indian culture is for men.
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You really don’t think we should have the cultural right to date or to choose our spouse?
People in India do choose their spouse. The parents will often protest if they don’t like the choice, and the engagement is after 3 meetings, but the choice is mutual. You seem to claim that people are married to someone strongly against their will.
You don’t really know much about India, do you?
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You Westerners obviously have no idea how oppressive Indian culture is for men.
It is not oppressive for men. Or for women.
The West is oppressive to men unless they learn Game or are otherwise high status, and slowly disenfranchises women in a very indirect way as well.
But I had to hide it from my parents, AS AN ADULT MALE!
That is more a function of you being too afraid of your parents, than a reflection of Indian society. Pre-marital sex does happen in Indian colleges in big cities.
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@ THF
Maybe or maybe he is just stuck in his cultural paradigm and can’t see past it, yet. I was there once. It was great to think that way, find a pretty woman then devote yourselves to each other. Very seductive fantasy.
That’s why men continue to marry. I have a feeling Satyajit is smarter than your average bear and is catching on.
Welcome to the discussion Satyajit. I was raised in the US during the sexual revolution. The first victim was arranged marriages.
If you want to see how the US is brainwashed against arranged marriages watch the movie “Fiddler on the Roof”.
This movie was made with the sole purpose of treating the audience to the wonders of getting rid of arranged marriages.
When I saw it I was a child and thought, my god, how backward.
As an adult, having seen almost every man in my family raped in family court by vindictive women using evil laws to destroy men, I realize that maybe having older people help in the choice of a spouse is a good idea.
I can tell you, I believe with my whole heart that every woman that ever said she loved me was lying and knew it.
So romantic love, in my opinion is a lie. I think woman know this and use it to entangle naive men.
So you think a naive virgin dude should decide who he should spend the rest of his life with because some girl is good in bed?
Because that’s how it works here. Because that’s how young men think and you can not change that, it is why we keep procreating. It is essential to our species survival.
I don’t think having mature experienced adults who love you choose your mate is such a bad idea.
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@ Satyajit
No I don’t think that giving young willful women the power to imprison anyone is a good idea. Look at false rape, false, DV, Julian Assanage, no I don’t think the least trustworthy and most selfish in our society should have the right to imprison their childrens grandmother.
The likelyhood of abuse is too great. And I bet my bottom dollar that nearly every grandmother in jail is there under false allegation, why, because I’ve seen what American women will do if given that kind of power.
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Satyajit,
The mistake you are making, which everyone else here is telling you, is the assumption that if restrictions on women are lifted, that everyone is happy in monogamous marriages to people they are compatible with.
Restrictions on women 50 years ago were not much different than what are on women in India today.
Now, if you remove the restrictions on women, what happens in reality after a generation is the following :
i) 80% of women sleep with 20% of men, and the bottom 80% of men are mostly lonely.
ii) A woman accrues 10-15 sexual partners by age 32-33, making it impossible for her to bond with a husband in a way that makes a family function.
iii) 41% of children are born out of wedlock, and grow up without fathers.
iv) The bottom 80% of men being enslaved by the state to finance those single mothers.
This is the outcome of removing the restrictions that exist on women in India today, and existed in the West until 1968 or so.
Read this again and again. It is the truth.
No society where the average woman has 5 or more sexual partners in her life, can survive. That is a fact.
You assume that women would be freely monogamous. That is a myth. That is the mistake in your entire set of assumptions.
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@Single Dad, some allegations are false, but not most. I’ve known of a few cases just right in my own neighborhood. One woman survived and has the burn marks covering her entire left side, the other woman unfortunately died.
Many Indians nurse dreams of India becoming a “Super Power” by 2025.
It will take us at least another 300 years to get some kind of semblance of “civic duty” widely accepted as just a concept, what to speak of put into action.
“I don’t think having mature experienced adults who love you choose your mate is such a bad idea.”
Key word here being “mature”. Indians are not mature. Our culture does not allow us to mature. We are essentially a nation of children.
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If you go our route, you’ll end up with spouses (i.e. wives) allowed to choose their own dates. Enforced by the police at your expense, of course.
Be careful what you wish for.
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Satyajit Roy bad stuff happens, mothers kill their children, people murder and steal, this will always be.
You don’t seem to have much respect for the wisdom of your parents/elders and this is an error. They may have a philosophy you detest. But they have experience that will help you avoid pain in your life.
My parents have been there for me through all this divorce/custody stuff. They even helped with my finances. No women has ever given me that. I owe my family the world.
Do I agree with them at first, hardly ever. Do I take their advice seriously, always.
But I’m a grown man and I make my own decisions in the end. Only I am responsible for my decisions.
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Satyajit,
Again, the problem is, how you THINK women would behave in the absence of Indian-style cultural controls (which really are very similar to Victorian-era British controls, or pre-1968 US conservative Christian controls)….
……is VERY, VERY different from how women really would behave without such controls. See my earlier comment.
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@Single Dad: “But I’m a grown man and I make my own decisions in the end.”
And I want the same for Indian men. You, Single Dad, don’t know how lucky and free you are.
@TFH: “This is the outcome of removing the restrictions that exist on women in India today, and existed in the West until 1968 or so”
I’d be perfectly happy if India adopted the widespread dating culture that was prevelant in the United States throughout the 1950s up until 1968.
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I’d be perfectly happy if India adopted the widespread dating culture that was prevelant in the United States throughout the 1950s up until 1968.
OK then, so why, pray tell, do you think things would halt at where the US was in 1968, and not just drift to where the US is in 2010?
Do you understand what a ‘slippery slope’ is?
Did you comprehend what I said of the huge difference between how you THINK women behave without controls, and how women REALLY behave without controls?
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Also, Satyajit, what do you think is the optimal number of sexual partners a woman should have in her lifetime (know that the more she has, the less she can bond with any one man)?
How many? One? Three? Five? Ten?
How many?
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Also, Satyajit, study this picture closely :
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_K86bx1iwGxI/TRFr3HwmaWI/AAAAAAAAABc/IJX_9qaGuuk/s1600/Women.png
Why do you think you can stop the wheel at 1968, just because that is what would be preferable for YOU?
Do you understand WHY the cycle of events depicted in this picture is one most men here (who have a lot of experience with women) would agree with?
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@SingleDad, Hitlary must still be mad Bill cheated.. Feminists usually arise from the most dysfunctional situations. Look at Gloria Steinem lol
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@TFH:
You’re the one saying India’s current controls on women are similar to the controls the West had on them prior to ’68.
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You’re the one saying India’s current controls on women are similar to the controls the West had on them prior to ’68.
Yes.
Now answer my questions, especially the one about why you think the cycle in this picture will magically not manifest :
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_K86bx1iwGxI/TRFr3HwmaWI/AAAAAAAAABc/IJX_9qaGuuk/s1600/Women.png
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@Single Dad: “Satyajit Roy bad stuff happens, mothers kill their children, people murder and steal, this will always be. ”
Yep, and jail awaits them. Just like jails awaits those poor little grandmothers who poor kerosene on their daughters-in-law in India and light a match.
Your point is?
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@ Satyajit
Hopefully some of this will hum in your head when the veil of womanly guile has been lifted from your eyes.
But I fear, more likely, we are wasting our breath. Maybe young men need to learn the hard way. Maybe that’s the natural way.
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TFH, what’s your beef with me? You’re the one celebrating the 3rd picture in that sequence by patronizing and dating strippers, not me.
I’m just a good little Indian beta who wanted to marry the woman of his choice and have a few kids.
What gives?
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@Single Dad: “Satyajit Roy bad stuff happens, mothers kill their children, people murder and steal, this will always be. ”
Yep, and jail awaits them. Just like jails awaits those poor little grandmothers who poor kerosene on their daughters-in-law in India and light a match.
Your point is?
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TFH, what’s your beef with me?
That you refuse to learn, and that what you perceive to be good intentions will make India much worse than it currently is, due to your severe lack of understanding of female psychology.
Your unwillingness to answer simple questions shows that you are clinging to beliefs you cannot defend.
You need to study that graphic :
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_K86bx1iwGxI/TRFr3HwmaWI/AAAAAAAAABc/IJX_9qaGuuk/s1600/Women.png
You seem to think you can stop the wheel at the point of your choosing. Everyone else here (who actually have experience with women) tells you that you cannot.
Yes, I benefit from ’2000′, but I still know that 1950 was better for the average man and average woman.
I’m just a good little Indian beta who wanted to marry the woman of his choice and have a few kids.
Most Indian betas can do this. They marry a woman who is average in looks, but not someone they are strongly opposed to marrying. They are not ‘forced’ as you claim they are. They may be restricted to marrying within their subgroup, but within that subgroup, they have choice.
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The point you seem incapable of comprehending is that India has not yet even reached 1950 America.
Was that lady in the 1950 photo’s marriage arranged?
Did she live her entire married life with her in-laws?
Did she not date her husband before marrying him?
Did she not kiss him before marrying him?
Did her husband live his entire life from childhood through adulthood and marriage in the home of his parents and then bring HER to live in the same house with them so that the 2 of them could be bossed around and treated like children by his parents even though they were both grown adults?
India as a whole has not even gotten to THAT point. We are not even at the social, cultural, and civic level of the United States in 1950.
I know you might be embarrassed of your Indian heritage there in front of your fellow Canadians or Americans who think India is a 3rd world, backward shithole and so you want them to think it’s not, and by extension that YOU are not, but again, and I will say this out loud so you get it:
I WANT INDIA TO BE LIKE THE USA WAS IN 1950.
At least we deserve that much. We are not animals, afterall, even if we do happen to be 3rd world.
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I WANT INDIA TO BE LIKE THE USA WAS IN 1950.
Good news. For the most part, it is. I understand India much better than you do, so you will have to take my word for it.
Now, to progress to the next stage of your education, you have to answer this question :
What do you think is the optimal number of sexual partners a woman should have in her lifetime (know that the more she has, the less she can bond with any one man)?
How many? One? Three? Five? Ten?
How many?
This should not be a difficult question for you to answer.
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OK!
You understand women better than I do, Gurudeva, so why don’t I just take your word for it?
What’s the answer, boss?
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Here’s the thing: humans haven’t evolved that much from a psychological standpoint since the time our species almost went extinct. What humans (a minority of savvy men in other words) have created is social mechanisms to deal with our primordial behaviors.
Women went after the top 20% of men because child birth was often FATAL for women and a alpha stud could impregnate many women. It hasn’t even been 1000 years since marriage was commonplace throught civilization. Women, if given the choices will go after the top 20% of alpha men until her search becomes fruitless and she has to settle for a beta to impregnate her (or to take care of her children) before she goes through menopause.
This behavior, when allowed to fully manifest itself:
- Severely diminishes the value of men as a class as men emotionally break apart from each other in the competition for pussy
-Women are given freedom to consider the majority of men as less than human (subconsciously anyway) when idealized fantasies are allowed to cloud their view of the world.
-Men are less productive due to a combination of sexual frustration and diminished emotional investment to society as society gradually removes the social status his forefathers were granted as men.
-Severely diminishes masculine identity as men are defined by how they service the feminine and not by concepts inherent to masculinity in of itself (there are barely any forms of acceptable social behavior for men anymore in Western Society that can’t be considered “gay”).
-Gives inflated status to societal icons like the majority of feminists and media personalities targeted at women like Oprah, Maury, and Dr.Phil who gain their social prestiege only by burrying the majority of men to stroke the egos of the masses women and not by actually creating/producing anything of tangible value.
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Lara, this thing about being afraid of women is offensive. I admit that I’m afraid of judges, police SWAT teams, the IRS, the ACS OCSE, US State Dept., WA DSHS OCS, WA DSHS CPS, SPD DVU, SPD SACAU, etc. These are only the agencies my ex-wife brought to bear against me — I’m sure there are others that could be involved. And I was nothing… nobody… All this firepower against one ordinary, unremarkable man like me…
And you think we’re afraid of women?!
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Satyajit Roy,how old are you?you sound like my grandpa.Urban India is way past the 1950′s America and has entered 1970′s America.
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“Yep, and jail awaits them. Just like jails awaits those poor little grandmothers who poor kerosene on their daughters-in-law in India and light a match.”
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Satyajit Roy,how old are you?you sound like my grandpa.Urban India is way past the 1950?s America and has entered 1970?s America.
98% of dowry cases are false and has nothing to do with dowry,many of those MIL(and SIL) are in jail for just being a MIL to a psychopathic woman.Like i said before,you definitely get your ideas from popular culture and don’t know much about India.
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The ‘good’ old days will not come back. Marriage 1.0 will not come back.
China and India and even so-called Islamic countries (the more moderate or progressive ones) have all been infected by feminism. This has ironically liberated men, if only the men refuse to take up the yoke of marriage.
I do personally know a few Indian guys who get more ass than a toilet seat. Indian men are deemed ‘exotic’ with sharper facial features. If you can’t get laid then you’re doing it wrong.
You can avoid women, or pump and dump them. Do not marry them. You can date them, but only according to Tom Leykis’ definition of dating = porking. That means no courtship, no bringing her home to meet the parents.
And stop concerning yourself with women’s rights. It’s not your problem as you are a man.
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It has just dawned on me that this Indian mangina is now a resident of USA.
On behalf of Indians, I’d like to apologize to all Americans that this shred of feces has reached your shores.
He and his kind are unwanted wherever they go.
I recommend deportation.
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One question for men then. I have been spending a lot of my day on this site, I came across it completely by chance and basically haven’t been able to leave(the views and thoughts intrigue me, I’m no where near a feminist…I’m an open mind). In general, I read comments of fairness and just passionate opinion all basically agreeing on the same views. Then you have this guy Satyajit with the high difference of opinion, I was hoping that the mundane wouldn’t happen. At first it didn’t but ego’s clash and that was that. Are you guys really gonna change anything…biting of the heads of those who don’t quite understand or just generally don’t see your point? I mean you got guys on here speaking of “force” being the only way?! Revolution? What are you gonna do shoot us? I’m all for the joining and continuing of a wholesome home (father,mother,children) but I can tell you right now. Any woman that comes across this page maybe even looking for a common ground is not going to find it,
And in the end, does that hurt us ALL?
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That’s a good idea. Deport him to Swat or Nuristan, and report his location to US troops whose wives have screwed them.
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I’m going to have to guess that India is more complex than it should be for simple MRM analysis to be able to make sense of it.
India’s conservative sexual mores do seem pretty extreme. I’ve known Indian and Pakistani men who seemed to be in Candyland Central whenever they weren’t in India – for example, in Korea. They tend to go crazy, chasing after women, and the stereotype is that they’re insanely desperate for sex or female companionship, and yet singularly unable to get it or deal with it if they do. They become crazily socially conservative once they get a local woman, and the woman bolts. This is the stereotype.
Arab men are often seen through the lens of the same stereotype in Asia.
White men, on the other hand, while viewed as toying and playboys, are also seen as catchable and they’re presumed to know what to do with women when they get them and do, in fact, seem to treat Asian women pretty well.
Also, … apparently, according to the Asian women I’ve been with who once or twice were with an Indian guy, Indian men tend to be the same size as Japanese or Korean men – which is surprising, given that their bodies are much bigger, as a rule.
And they say the rule about black men is also true – bigger. Not often thicker, but longer. That’s an interesting stereotype I’ve heard often.
But really, the crushing sexual culture does seem pretty negative.
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Satyajit Roy,
You understand women better than I do, Gurudeva, so why don’t I just take your word for it?
No, YOU have to answer that question because you are making all sorts of other absurd claims about what India is, and what America is (false in both cases).
What do you think is the optimal number of sexual partners a woman should have in her lifetime (know that the more she has, the less she can bond with any one man)?
How many? One? Three? Five? Ten?
How many?
If you cannot bring yourself to answer these very straightforward questions about your beliefs, then your subconscious has already decided your beliefs are unsound.
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@C.Dot
There’s nothing personal. I just have a zero tolerance policy towards those who advocate, or make excuses for feminism. Ditto for gender equality.
A woman’s dick count is a statistic, not a tragedy.
If a woman cannot bond with me, that’s perfectly okay.
This may break the hearts of you marriage-minded, soulmate seeking men out there, but it’s not a problem for me.
A higher dick count only poses two potential challenges: 1) accumulated emotional baggage bullshit, and 2) STDs. Use your own judgement and navigate carefully.
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I think I see the confusion between my Indian brothers and the Indo-mangina.. The mangina actually thinks that feminism would allow cultural aspects such as “dating” and relatively open attitudes towards sex!
TFH and Alpha, Give it a few minutes.. put yourself in his shoes and see.. what he is saying makes sense, if you commit that error in understanding history
To paraphrase Argus eyes, Indo-Mangina is sure there is a man out there somewhere who molests women, rapes them.. even kids and eats dogs! Why? Because that is who he is.. he is a MAN! Indo-Mangina hasn’t met him, does not know anyone who is like him, but he is VERY certain he is out there somewhere “out there”. He must be there, because everyone says there is that MAN somewhere and only that can explain the way things are!
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The commentary is not exactly clarifying things, and there were already some coherence problems with the opening thesis. Here’s what I got so far: for centuries and centuries, these traditional male-dominated cultures in Asia (we can now throw in the Indian subcontinent and the Mideast) end up producing massive numbers of feminized males, “manginas” and “white knights,” and it’s because of the recent influence of feminism. Oh, and they all have smallish sexual organs, too (chortle). I’m a bit like C.Dot in that I was initially drawn to the substance at this joint. Now I’m kind of like, huh?
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India doesn’t have an organized feminist movment to speak of, not like the kind you have had for decades in the West. However you are correct that Indian men in general appear more “feminized” than Western men, if by feminized you mean “effeminate”.
Is because of our HOMOSOCIAL culture.
It is not uncommon to see Indian men walking hand in hand through our streets and affectionately touching each other in ways that would be reserved for girlfriends/wives in your countries.
Even after marriage we are curtailed from showing such type of affection to our wives in front of family members and in public. Not only do we not do public displays of affection with women other than our mothers, we do not even do PRIVATE displays of affection inside our own homes in front of our families.
It is rare for an Indian child to see his parents hug or kiss or hold hands. However it is not unusual for an Indian child to see his father displaying affection to his grandmother or to his uncles.
Hey not all of us do. However “size obsession” is somthing that is foreign to India.
Nevertheless, condoms had to be recalled;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm
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In China something like two-thirds of college students are women. China long ago ceased to be a patriarchy.
I asked a Chinese friend if he wanted to go out to a bar for something to eat. He said he’d have to ask his wife. I enquired as to whether he would go if she said “no”, and he stated he would not.
He asked me if I was the same. I said, “heck no, I tell her I’m going and when I’ll be back.” This was incomprehensible to this man who is highly educated, and supposedly a mover and shaker.
Well, she said no and he didn’t go. I couldn’t believe it. So much for patriarchial China.
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It’s exactly the same in India except that the person you have to ask permission from is one of your parents, either the mother or father, but often both. And this as an adult male professional who is the primary earner in the home.
And I might add, you are expected to turn over your paycheck to your parents as well, and you are issued an “allowance” from your own paycheck to spend on a few frugal personal items.
Our country is nuts and produces nothing but infantilized worker drones.
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This is one of the first things that tourists note on arrival to “Incredible India”.
We are essentially a nation of children.
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To be fair PetertheGreat, at least China actually has a manufacturing base for its economy as opposed to a lot of the West so I wouldn’t be worried THAT much about college enrollment rates.
It would only be a huge problem:
-If blue collor work starts to become socially maligned.
-If housing prices are rising too fast in relation to the average wage (and there aren’t nearly enough well off Chinese to keep such a bubble like that up for any significant period of time).
-And if China we’re to fall into the spiral of credentalism (which I doubt would happen as the powers that be in China don’t have a real incentive to shove people into post-secondary education as opposed to the Democrats in America wanting to impose their socialist manifesto.)
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Indeed China will be the ONLY world superpower in the near future. India is building bombs at the expense of letting their economy develop.. I don’t see India getting any better than the former soviet union. The chinese will survive the coming dollar collapse much better, although there will be major tremors going thru. India will collapse. And good for the Chinese! Go China!
Lara, please note that Satyajit himself is a child.. projecting his own misgivings onto the rest. When he says Indian men.. he is really talking about himself. I knew we had Indian women spreading lies about Indian men in an effort to gain sympathy (and it work$$$!) .. now I realize they are not alone.
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Since the time he has been here, the (pseudo-Indian)-mangina has spread lies, disinformation ,half-truths about India-and all out of context. The parasite abandoned his own country for greener pastures abroad, and feels good about s******* on the country of his birth. The best way to do this is to praise feminism-maybe his wife reads his posts and promises him nookie if he abuses men enough. Or his political masters promise him promotion. I dunno. Maybe he’s a masochist. Definitely a Marxist.
One wonders , if he has left India for USA, how he thinks he is fit to comment on his erstwhile country.
This is exactly the sort of person who would use cheap tricks like bawling “racism” to get whatever he wants from US society/government.
moron1:[[It sounds like Indian society does not allow men to grow up]]
moron2:[[Our country is nuts and produces nothing but infantilized worker drones.]]
Oh so THAT’S WHY OUR ECONOMY CONTINUES TO GROW WHILE FEMINIST NATIONS FEEL THE FULL BRUNT OF RECESSION!
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@Alpha, the only problems I see for the rising countries is that they adopt Western culture and throw away their own culture. Western American culture USED to be amazing, very promising, but with the advent of Feminism, honestly it all just went downhill.. People want the prosperity the Americans (the patriarchal Americans mind you) have had for awhile now, the evil patriarch American Men who grew up in during The Great Depression, went off to fight World War II as young Men, came back and built America.. Hell we’re still living off of the money and prosperity they acquired.. Those evil damn patriarchs I tell ya.
So now if you accept Western culture, you accept radical-Feminism, and you accept the gradual destruction of your country. Hell, look at the Brits, they were the most progressive in their social policies/Feminism, today Great Britain is a former shell of it’s self, and is a country that is rapidly becoming worse and worse. I don’t even want to go into GB and the Feminism out there, poor country…
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@DevilDog
You, Sir, have perhaps little idea how RIGHT you are.
In the Indian media, there is a hidden tendency to paint traditionalists, rural people as “regressive” while well-to-do, english-speaking, feminist,globalized,liberals are “progressive”
any protests from traditionalists(particularly hindu traditionalists) are painted as “fascist”
and if the protests are violent, they are gleefully painted as “barbaric”
similarly, these people love to point out anything negative about the military.
and so on and so forth.
My 10th standard economics textbook has illustrations(drawings rather) of women protesting . You know, open mouths,frowning faces, clenched fists punching the air……
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Alpha,
There is some reason to label Hindu traditionalists as fascists. If you look up the history of Italian fascism, you will find a whole lot of similarity. If you were a minority.. say a Christian or a Muslim you will be insane/delusional not to fear the Hindu nationalists and their openly stated goals. Read what VHP or RSS write, if you like. It seems people buy whatever little they are taught early on about history and believe it without question, even vehemently defend it, even in face of hard evidence.
“Oh so THAT’S WHY OUR ECONOMY CONTINUES TO GROW.. “. Well, its not growing as fast as most people are led to believe. And that growth you talk about is going to bring Ritalin, DV law enforcement, Militarized cops, CSEA, the expensive lawyers etc. are coming. Except that Americans grew rich before they grew feminists. India is feminist chivalrist far before it is growing well to do. This has implications for an even worse feminized state, if you take the time to understand who is working, and who is milking the growing economy.
FYI, I find no harm in criticizing a national government (or its minions) that is spent billions of dollars in adapting Russian, Israeli and Western weaponry (which would be useless anyway, unless you want to attack Poor Shri Lanka…LOL!) while its poor are still hungry and grain rots in government stores – All in the hope of becoming a “Super power”??! So don’t mind if I call a spade a spade.
DevilDog,
Be safe in Afpak. And you are wrong about post-WW2 economic development. Read up on Bretton Woods and the FED, it pretty much explains the so-called post war development.
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Such shaming language from the Indian Brigade!.
Thus far I have been called a;
1. faggot
2. mangina
3. Indo-mangina (that’s creative!) and now even a,
4. Marxist!
And all of this shaming language comes from, you guessed it, my fellow INDIANS!
That’s not a surprise, India is a shame based culture. You can read about shame-based culture vs guilt-based culture here:
http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/shame_guilt.htm
I do better in a guilt-based culture and that’s why I tend to get better along with people from Western countries. They are able to discuss issues in a mature and civil fashion, as we see here from Gorbachev, Single Dad and Lara.
@Alpha: “People want the prosperity the Americans (the patriarchal Americans mind you) have had for awhile now, the evil patriarch American Men who grew up in during The Great Depression, went off to fight World War II as young Men, came back and built America.”
The key is that you were able to actually “go off” and then “come back and build” America. We Indian men are not allowed to date and choose our spouses. We are domesticated cows in the oppressive extended and joint family system. How on earth would would we ever built a successful country like America?
Americans are proud of their “rugged individualism” and rightly so. It’s what made the US a Superpower at one point in time. Now, had American men been shackled to the homes of their parents their whole lives do you think the United States would be anything other than a 3rd world country?
@Pankaj: “Indeed China will be the ONLY world superpower in the near future. I don’t see India getting any better than the former soviet union. India will collapse. ”
I agree 100%.
The reason is because of a culture that doesn’t allow boys to become men.
Now, what can the Mens’ Rights Movement do for men in India?
If you can demonstrate that you will aid us in growing up, leaving our parents’ nest to live as grown men on our own, to be able to date and choose our own wives and live as a NUCLEAR FAMILY instead of a JOINT FAMILY, then sign me up!
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Satyajit Roy my Indian bro,
There should be nothing to stop you from moving out and stay alone by yourself. Now, I am not sure of how expensive rents are in India, but the first step to overcoming is to ignore and walk away. Vote with your feet and do your own thing.
That said, there is nothing wrong with living with your parents if they are decent folks. You save on rent, you spend more time with them (they don’t live forever), and you can always help out around the house. However, if your extended family environment is giving you hell, it is time to find another place to live.
In addition, unless you are sure you are going to get some decent inheritance, it’s probably not a big deal if your parents do something drastic, such as disowning you. Screw them.
Lastly, you must get this into your head: the purpose of dating is primarily to have sex sometime down the road. Marriage should not be part of the package. I do not recommend marriage at all, especially in the toxic feminised environment of India.
Nobody is stopping or hindering you from becoming a man, or adopting a zero tolerance policy to nonsense from family members. The more you roll over and let them do what they want, the more they will eat you up.
Do nothing for others, do things only for yourself.
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@Satyajit Roy
I agree with mgtow. Shit or get off the pot! You’re basically pissing and whining about being treated poorly as a MAN yet you think the cure for this is to emasculate yourself further by giving women more power. Either bang your assigned wife and make her clean the wet spot or kick her to the curb.
Leave your family and deny them the money they are extorting from you. Fuck them and their system. I live on my own with my wife and two kids. I would never let my parents tell me what to do or let them extort money from me. The only money you should give your parents is for the poison they are threatening to use if you leave them.
Your dad needs to grow a pair of balls too. Fuck the whole system and if you cannot change it, leave it where it is and Go Your Own Way. Get the fucking memo and quit being a pissy little fucking wimp about it.
I honestly think you need to get in a boxing ring and get punched in the face a few times. I really want to punch you in the face a few times and then punch you again if your cry about it. Then you need to stop pissing yourself long enough to punch somebody else in the face and find out how empowering it is to be your own person. I’d be glad to let you punch me in the face if it would help you grow some God damned balls!
This is precisely why pissy little wimps will never be able to conquer the world and if you think that China with its effeminate men will conquer anything but the world dry cleaning business, you’re deluding yourself. Men with balls will always rule the world and unless you grow a pair you’ll be pissing in the wind like the little fucking wimp you show yourself to be.
Sorry about the harshness of my post, but you really got my dander up. First time poster (Hello everyone at the spearhead!)
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Witman, bring it on! I appreciate your post and the advice of Mgtow far more than that of TFH and the other Indian commenters here who are in denial about the emasculation we Indian men undergo as a result of our extended joint family culture and who, of all things, advised me to suck it up, go along with it and stop criticising India in front of the goras (white men)!
These are men themselves who are living at home with their parents (at least the ones in India), have been emasculinzed by our culture and don’t want to see the boat rocked.
To set the record straight, I’m not into feminism or masculinism or any “ism” in India other than ADULTISM.
Indian parents need to raise their kids to be independent, functional ADULTS, not children and virgins at the age of 40!
And Witman, you might be happy to know that I am in the process of breaking away from this oppressive system.
However for us Indians, it’s not as easy as it is for you Westerners. We have been coddled and babied since birth. In a way you are lucky if your Mom kicked you out of the house at 18. I’m sure it made you into a man real quick!
And I agree with you that any society that does what India does to its adult population is NOT going to be any kind of “power” soon. What to speak of a “Super Power”.
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Now you’re coming around!
My mother did not kick me out when I was 18, I left her to her own ill-gotten lifestyle and went to live with my father. He promptly told me that I eat too much and needed to get a job or I had to go back to my mother’s house. I got a job and have had one for the past 22 years!
Get your shit together. You think it is not easy, but it is. Just pack up a hobo pack and hit the road. Unless your family can undermine your career it will still be there and your marriageability will still be intact.
You’d be better off to never marry again. Marriage is a losing sport for men in modern society anyway. I am able to keep my family together because my wife and I are equals. She cannot extract any money from me if we separate and both my children are in University. My life is good, but most men with dependent wives are living on thin ice.
I was serious about the boxing ring. Go punch somebody in the face and get punched in the face. You’ll never know yourself until you’ve been punched in the face!
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You know, Roy, you’re brining something interesting up here.
In the early days of feminism and the sexual revolution in the US a lot of young men supported it wholeheartedly, because they chafed under the social restraints and expectations that bound men beforehand. Obviously, they were different in the West from contemporary India, but they were no less onerous, particularly if you consider the extremely violent history of the 20th century.
However, things didn’t turn out as men expected, and in many ways they got a lot worse. I’m not the expert on this stuff, having been born after the die had already been cast, but if you click on the link to Zed’s articles (“authors’ posts” section) you might find some stuff you could relate to as someone who feels stuck in a traditional culture.
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Actually, I’d even suggest you hold onto your assigned wife. I often wished I had been assigned a wife. I’ve banged some real fuggos and I think I could stomach one that is sub-servant to me. If she’ not hard to look at, you’re set. You need to learn to love that woman and bang her to unconsciousness every chance you get. She’ll be yours forever if you can bang her properly and she’ll likely treat you right if you set the right standards.
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W.F.Price, I’m a pretty “traditional” guy myself by international standards. There are many things I love about my country but I’m not elaborating upon them here because it’s spiritual and cultural stuff that’s irrelevant to men from a different religio-cultural background.
But you can gloss through the many Indian blogs online as well as the blogs by non-Indians married to or dating Indians and the first and sometimes only topic is “why is the Indian family so oppressive” or “why won’t my Indian boyfriend’s parents allow him to date and he’s 21?” or “does India’s family values help or hinder it’s progress?” stuff like that.
We’ve taken “family values” to far. Most of the social ills and indeed even CRIMES in our country are extended joint family related. The joint family system is one in which the sons NEVER move out but bring their wives home to live with them in their parents’ house. As someone pointed out before, its usually an in-law who demands dowry or commits a dowry murder.
I’m not supporting Feminism or Masculimism in India. Only ADULTISM. We need to be allowed to grow up and move out.
Witman, as far as my wife, we are friends, but we are both in love with someone else who are parents did not allow us to marry.
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Dude! Shit or get off the pot. You cannot become an adult until YOU do something. It seems to me that you are still expecting somebody else to do this for you. Nobody will help you, we’ll just sit back and ridicule you. Then we’ll take all your shit, have sex with your wife an ridicule you more.
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It is very obvious to anyone who knows Asian people that American men do tend to be more masculine than they are in spite of the fact that our country is feminist. I think Satyajit has help shed light in why this is so. Gorb basically said the same in his article. I don’t think living with your parents well into adulthood or having to ask them permission to do anything is that great of a thing for a man.
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BINGO!
Witman, I’ve already done something. I’ve left my parents home. My “assigned wife” and I live like room-mates for now just to have a base while we both travel, sometimes together, sometimes separately.
We are great friends, but like I said, we were both in love with other people before we got arranged to marry. We have decided that we will divorce and pursue our own way in life, separate from our dysfunctional families that did not allow either one of us to grow up and choose our spouses.
It may not be much in your eyes, but for an Indian couple to MOVE OUT of the husband’s parents’ home and then to get a divorce but remain good friends is REALLY DOING SOMETHING for Indians.
Chances are we will both get back together with our ex lovers. That will really teach our parents, both sets of them, a lesson.
I bet they don’t try to arranged any more marriages after that.
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I am writing this with some reluctance, because Spearhead.com was one of my favorite websites, but the childish–or one might almost say “womanish”–attacks by various posters on other contributors (mostly fellow males who are just as distressed by the feminism and unisexism run amok in our society as we are) which do nothing but distract us from the really important work at this time (and for the forseeable future) of pointing out, diagnosing, and elaborating upon the disastrous consequences of gender egalitarianism as it is being implemented, mostly in the West, but increasingly in the “third world” as well!
Every website–especially one as controversial as Spearhead.com–is going to have some of its guests mistake heat for light in their writing, but until the past month or so, it seems that we kept ourselves under control to an admirable degree! This, however, seems to be changing, at least at the hands of a minority of rather noisy critics, and the change is NOT for the better!
For Heaven’s sakes gentlemen, aren’t we ALL under attack from outside hostiles, in the USSA and Austaralia, from India and Germany, from the UK and China? Don’t we face enough obstacles, difficulties, and even hardships from those regimes and their female drones (of both sexes) without adding to our problems by being antagonistic and “bitchy” to one-another’s posts? The subject of this website–and, for now, VERY FEW like it, is one that certainly allows for fairly wide difference of opinions, both regarding current observations, and possible tactics and strategy to cope with these challenges as chance, and opportunity shall offer…
There was a very observant and intelligent poster here called Demosthenes XXI, who tried to relate the material on Spearhead to the Afro-American Male community. Given the greater vulnerability of that community to feminist and unisex pressures, buttressed by the surrounding warfare/welfare State of the USSA, from unwed mother provisions in the Pentagon for female “recruits” to (especially) draconian “child-support” enforcement, and very aggressive use of child-custody to feed the so-called foster care and childrens shelter apparatus–as a prelude, in most cases, to the State and Federal Prison system–surely we would, you would think, have a great deal of relevant material to offer, as well as taking the Aframerican experience with feminism and its wretched “publik skoolz” and family ‘care’ mechanisms as a warning precursor of what the Washington NWO regime has in mind for White people as well.
Contact with other men, from different cultures and ethnic histories historiesshould be, if possible, welcomed, even if their observations may not dovetail with those from the e.g. USSA or the People’s Republic of Britain! Even the feminist poison will affect people, both men, and their women and children, somewhat differently over there than it had here! Satyagit Roy( and other Indians posters), to name one example, certainly may have been victimized by those differences without his being a “mangina” , “faggot” or “Marxist” by far too many irresponsible and ignorant Spearhead posters!!
Let’s start posting at our favorite website here like MEN again, listening to and thoughtfully advising, and yes, even encouraging each other, even when we disagreeing about particulars; and not like little teenage grrrlz verbally spitting in the throes of their PMS, shall we?
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
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I admit I was a bit harsh, but sometimes people need a kick in the ass to get them going.
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First I want to apologize that childish trolls have spammed this website with silly language due to my presence. Prior to my arrival it appears that mature conversation was taking place between men, and although disagreements may have been many, maturity and civility took precedence.
We Indians have a lot to learn in that regard, as you saw when the Indian Brigrade of Trolls jumped on board after my arrival and attempts at explaining what many men in India have to endure in the name of “culture” and “family values”.
David K. Meller, to be fair, the only people who have behaved childishly here by trying to shame me by calling me names have been OTHER INDIAN MEN, most of them trolls.
I see a willingness on behalf of the non-Indian men here to engage with me and here my side of what life is like for us men in India.
However, blind patriotism or love for the mother land, “Bharat Mata” runs very strong in Indian blood and as soon as someone makes a valid observation about India on a website, the Indian Brigade in the form of trolls catches wind and begins to throw around childish names in an effort to preserve our “cultural honor” before the eyes of the world.
I see this as a result of a culture that doesn’t allow people to grow up and voice their opinions in a mature and civil fashion.
I appreciate that the other men on this blog, like David, Single Dad, Gorbachev and others, as well as women like Lara are able to hold their own opinions as well as hear the opinions of others, and agree or disagree without resorting to name calling and shaming language.
We Indians haven’t quite gotten that far yet, but we are still evolving, or so it seems.
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witman, you and your posts are being read–and considered–by other men (and the occasional woman who loves them–around the WORLD!
Are you really at your best “kicking people in the ass”, and is that what you want everyone to think that is the MOST that you have to offer?
I’ve read quite a few posts from you on Spearhead.com, and I think that you can do better!
Save cattiness for trolling feminist websites. They will probably block you after a time–they HATE your disagreement and lack the intellectual capacity to argue rationally against you–but there are plenty more where each one comes from!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
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There’s one thing I’d like to bring up. If India is anything like what Satyagit Roy says, how did it get this way? I remember 22 years ago being in the British Museum in London, and they had many artifacts from the Indian subcontinent. One of them was an erotic art freeze of an orgy between men and women. South Asian civilization is very old. Do you think they haven’t experienced many of the things we do now in the past? Some of the women in the freeze were 2 women servicing one man while others have 2 men servicing one woman. TFH seems to be right that once you introduce some Western concepts to India, you may regret at least some of what is being introduced into India. I understand that Satyajit Roy wants India to be more like the USA, and I see his point to a degree, but he should be careful of what he asks for because he may get it( the bad with the good). Feminism, white knighting and manginaism is harmful to the USA to a large degree in our present day.
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@doclove, as an answer to your question, see here;
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/01/02/india-plunges-into-rape-hysteria/#comment-61925
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“If India is anything like what Satyagit Roy says”
Stop right there! (as Chapin says) This is where the Mangina is taking you for a ride. Things are never as cut and dry as propagandists make them to be.
Satyajit is taking her personal issues and projecting it onto the entire region.
Here is a sample of her thinking
“I mean, “I can only HOPE Feminism seeps into the fabric of Indian society. Our women and girls are treated horribly.”
“In India you can rule over your wife, …”
“(And yes, I am also concerned about male fetuses being aborted, but that does not happen in India.)”
Sounds like something you have heard? Just substitute “India” with “Patriarchy”. If not visit your local university and take Women’s studies courses. On a side note, the part of India where Satyajit comes from is heavily Marxist (close ally of feminism, so close, you don’t know where the boundaries are!) with all its (anti-human), anti-culture, anti-religion, anti-economic, ultra-egalitarian world view. It is not surprising to me that this is what Satyajit spouts here. It is an attack on decent Indian men who are doing the right thing by their parents – and refuse to obey their commanding va-jeje, aka modern-Indian-woman.
I invite you to come to India and actually see the conditions here. Like I have said before, you need to know what is oppression and what is culture. Culture can be oppressive and it is, but until it involves some sort of violence or threat of it, e.g. imprisonment, burning stakes or lynchings or ostracism or whippings or stoning – its not oppression.
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