Mother’s Crazy, but She Runs the Family

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by J. Durden on December 28, 2010

“Mother’s crazy but she runs the family.” This is the first line from Toy Matinee’s song, There Was A Little Boy, which discusses everything wrong with growing up in a single mother family. My parents divorced around the time I was 12, and it was then that I became intimately familiar with my mother’s unique brand of tough love (some might say, psychosis). As I was growing into a young adult, I remember being shamed and ridiculed into silence everytime I made a bad remark about my mother. Perhaps this was a symptom of the area I grew up in – lovely old Bellingham, Washington, one of the most liberal (and feminist!) towns I’m aware of – but mother worship is just another fact of growing up in the West. Even bad men love their mamas – so why didn’t I? After all, she went through the pain of birthing me and so on and so forth. I quickly learned to just keep my mouth shut about my awful mother. In private, I’ve known several men who have admitted to having an antagonistic relationship with their mothers, but it’s something you rarely see proclaimed loudly.

You may have noticed that I’m something of the “music man” around The Spearhead – several of my posts are analyses of songs. I’ve found that music captures and expresses emotional sentiment far better than I could ever manage to. Thus, songs serve as a sort of crutch for me when I’m discussing emotions, that most unmanly of conversational topics. Toy Matinee only ever released one album, in 1990, and the frontman/singer for it was Kevin Gilbert. Kevin Gilbert was involved in producing some of Madonna’s tripe, if memory serves, but much more importantly he released a few albums of his own. He passed away in 1996, but you could say he went out with a bang – having died of autoerotic asphyxiation. I suggest you check out There Was A Little Boy for yourself before you read the rest of this piece, but if you don’t, I’ll be copying the relevant lyrics as we go along. For example, here’s the first verse:

Mother’s crazy, but she runs the family
Two older sisters, and the boy who’s nine years old
He’s old enough to see the way it’s going
Somewhere the birds are singing
But Mother’s all alone

This isn’t a perfect mirror of the way I grew up, but it’s fairly close. I had an older brother and a younger sister in place of “two older sisters,” and as I mentioned, my parents were still together when I was 9. Nevertheless, even when my parents were together, my mom definitely “ran the family.” My father was in charge of finances, but that was about it. If ever we needed a parent’s permission, we knew to get our mother’s, because our father had no authority in our home. The third line is interesting because I think – perhaps due to my own personal experience – that people begin to form their first very clear memories around the time they are 8 or 9. (Sure, some people claim to remember even their infant years, but that’s considered exceptional.) I take the “birds are singing” line as a metaphor for the mother being crazy, and “but Mother’s all alone” seems to imply that even though the mother might be physically present, she is emotionally distant. (Obviously the line implies she’s single, too, but I like to take my analyses deeper than that.) Second verse:

He needs a father, but she takes a lover
This man is not a friend, shows no friendship
This man just waits around to play with Sister
But he plays too serious, he plays too rough

Again, this isn’t a perfect mirror to my circumstances, but it’s fairly close. Much has been written about how children need fathers, so I won’t go too much into that subject. The first two lines of this song are a succinct reference to the preference for alpha male jerks controversially observed in, for example, the Roissysphere. The man my mother tried to settle down with after a few years wasn’t much of a father either – and had already been divorced, with kids of his own – but thankfully he wasn’t a sexual predator like the step-father in this song. I’m certain I’ve read an article recently about how step-fathers are more likely to be sexual abusers, but for the life of me I can’t find it. Anyway, I don’t think the assertion needs too much proving around here, though obviously there are exceptions and some step-fathers are great men. The chorus:

How can you expect a child to understand the sickness of a world whose eyes are blind?
The dying man inside this boy is questioning his once upon a time
(There was a little boy)

There’s not much intelligent or cogent that I can say about this chorus. It comes up later with some additional lines, but the first two are powerful. It took me 21 or 22 years to “understand the sickness of the world,” and I’m still coping with the fact its “eyes are blind.” The dying man inside me started questioning my once upon a time right around the time I hit puberty. I am not an isolated case. Next verse:

He leaves home early for a loveless world
And he finds what he needs with an older boy
He’s got a couple things to hide from Mother
He hopes she’ll understand, she hopes he’ll change

I’ve read some articles that talk about how a child learns intimacy and how to love from their parents, and that if a child fails to learn this from his (or her) parents, then he (or she) goes into adulthood with a crippled ability to relate to and trust other people. (I wish I had some links to these articles, but I didn’t bookmark them.) Such a world is certainly loveless. I can also relate to finding what I needed with an older boy – although, this implies the boy gets involved with a gang or something similar, which I never quite did. I idolized my older brother for a time, and then befriended many older male friends through the internet. (By older, I mean 4-8 years my senior.) I sometimes felt as though I had things to hide from my mother – though, that was more just childhood tomfoolery than the sort of gang trouble implied in this song. Even still, as the years have worn on, I always hoped my mother would understand me better, and I am sure she hopes that I would change and include her more in my life. The chorus returns at this point, its potency alliteration-enhanced:

How can you expect a child to understand the sickness of a world whose eyes are blind?
A world he cannot hope to conquer, insecurities that fester in his mind
No choice, no fault, and no way out, no blame, no guilt, no friends, no cure, no crime
The dying man inside this boy is questioning his once upon a time
(There was a little boy)

As before, there’s little of merit I can add to these powerful lines. My mother made me feel disastrously insecure as I was growing up. I remember one particularly bad argument with her. One of my best friends and his family had agreed to take me into their home, because the situation in my own was getting out of hand. I approached her about this and she flipped out, as was her modus operandi. The conversation veered towards (as it usually did) how much of a failure I was, and I remember how she asserted that I could never make it on my own because of how hopelessly pathetic I was. The sad part was that for a few days, I internalized this and believed her. Thankfully, I had some decent (great, really) friends who helped reassure me, and shortly thereafter I resolved to prove her wrong. I effectively ran away at the age of 17 and relocated to Utah to start over.

The “no choice, no fault” line sums up how I felt growing up and what I think a lot of boys are feeling in this age. For example, all of the forces that are arrayed against them are not their fault, there’s rarely a way out of it (we men can talk of expatriating, but what is a 12 year old boy with a single mother and abusive step father to do?), it’s hard to find blame with any one person or thing (and even if you can, what good is assigning the blame?), and friends can seem hard to find if you’re being shamed about your “mommy issues.” Final verse:

This boy was once a strong man, but getting weaker
He carries more than just the shame inside
His mother stays away and faces nothing
She blindly wishes for a happy ending

This verse stands out to me, as well. As the years wore on with my mother, I got wore down. Where once I dreamed big – becoming a famous novelist, becoming President, having a big happy family and so on – I later actually devised ways in which I could fail and disappoint. At the apex of this mindset, I enlisted (for convoluted reasons not worth examining here), which I did in part to spite my family. All the while, my mother could never own up to what she did to us children, waxing sentimental about how we could all get back together some day and be “a real family again.” Excuse me while I vomit.

On that note, I hope your holidays went well and that you have a good New Year.


J. Durden aka Dr. Deezee is the chief architect of the Internet Hate Machine and has hated the holidays since at least 2004. Bah humbug.

{ 111 comments… read them below or add one }

Robert in Arabia December 28, 2010 at 12:20

Courage.

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Anonymous December 28, 2010 at 13:12

Hey,
My parents are still together, but i feel the same way as in the song and in the authors discussion. My mom was obviously the boss in the household although my father is much smarter. Too bad for all the years i stayed home, leaving my home to live on my own has been the best improvement of life quality ever, I recommend it highly to everyone!

If i were to believe my mom i can’t do anything and i believed it. Now i’m graduating as an engineer with good grades and have won some music competitions.

Dont believe anything mom says, trust only yourself!

Greetz,
Anonymous

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POIUYT December 28, 2010 at 13:13

Only in pathetic societies where there is total institutional domminance by males and yet sons are abandoned to fatherlessness, isolation, orphanry and bastardy can such lyrics decrying misandry emerge.

The women of this genderist shithole of a society are no different to the women of the rest of the world in their demands from their menfolk. On the contrary it is the menfolk of this place that are different to others for caving into and capitulating to every single demand of females and genderists.

But to add insult to injury, these malicious animals answering to being men in these shithole lands, went even a few shameless steps further than mere treachery to themselves, their own kind and their own sons. They even audaciously suggested to womenfolk whom never even ever themselves asked, the kinds of demands, rights, privilages, entitlements and protections they were owed by menfolk.

Thus, are these men in public authority and office or those giving legitimacey and service to such a barbaric and one sided genderist system, not themselves lower than animals, lower than vermin, lower than babedbugs, disease and sickness ???

And why should they continue to exist unobtruded, freely spreading their ideological contamination and genderist bigotry amongst honest men, women and children … whom would be much more healthier, more free and much more happier without these mens cowardly intrusion ?

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XS December 28, 2010 at 13:14

Very profound article and song. How’s your life now J? (if you don’t mind me asking).

It must be the time of year but I felt kind of sad reading that.

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J. Durden December 28, 2010 at 13:17

XS –

It’s turning around. A tour in the Marine Corps did me some good and allowed me enough room to breathe (go figure) to collect myself. Although, long time readers of this site may know that around this time last year (February, technically, but we’re getting close) I suffered a breakdown that resulted in intensive hospitalization…uhhh…so, doing better after that, too. Haha.

Seamus the Classicist December 28, 2010 at 13:17

I grew up in a single mother household, but thankfully did not have to deal with a typical woman, in fact it was my mother who warned me against women. She has the strange ability to analyse things like a man and stick to principles, an exception that proves the rule.

But many single mothers are dangerous to their offspring, especially the male offspring, as he can become the whipping boy for the hatred she feels towards men. Women through out history and literature have been known to use the children to get back at the man. Starting with Gaia (mother earth) in the Theogeny, who conspires with her son, Cronus, to overthrow his father (and her husband) Uranus. To Medea who served her husband, Jason, his own children.

The ideal would be for men to regain their status as, Pater Familias, such arrangments gave the man more rights than the woman to rule over the family, thus fathers would be disenclined to leave their “kingdoms.” This is all theorhetical though since we have confusion even in government and religion of what authority is.

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XS December 28, 2010 at 13:33

Best wishes for the New Year J and I hope things turn around for you.

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meistergedanken December 28, 2010 at 13:33

Seamus said:
“I grew up in a single mother household, but thankfully did not have to deal with a typical woman, in fact it was my mother who warned me against women.”

I had a similar situation. In fact, right before I went away to college for the first time, she told me, “There is nothing worse in life than a stupid woman. Don’t get saddled with one of those.”

Now if only she had warned me about the crazy ones…

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Thag Jones December 28, 2010 at 13:50

Wow, I can actually relate to some of that. I don’t know how to write about these things (and hesitate to post this at all) because I feel too much like I’m wallowing in it, but this was very good. I did not learn much about intimacy growing up and I tend to come across as a bit cold and disconnected to most people I think – I do have emotions, I just keep them to myself because I don’t like making myself vulnerable.

My mom was emotionally distant but with a pretty bad temper and I can’t ever recall her saying “I love you,” but I do recall a few of the more negative comments directed at me and my brother. My brother can’t be bothered with women at all at this point and has been, on all but a very few occasions, fairly immune to their charms. My dad wasn’t a bad dad – he took care of us and more or less ignored my mom from so early in their marriage that I don’t think I’ve ever really seen them being affectionate with each other, though I did hear some loud late night arguments about that.

Probably we’d have been a lot worse off if he hadn’t refused to let my mom leave the country with us when we were about 8 (him) and 9 (me) years old and they were talking divorce. She stayed because she was given the choice of leaving by herself or staying, because there was no way in hell he was letting her take us to go live with her psycho mom.

I tried several times over the years to connect with my mom but always ended up disappointed and feeling rejected, so I gave up maybe 10 or so years ago. I know that it’s not all her fault, because her mom was way worse judging by the little I know, so I don’t want to come across as overly critical or resentful either – what’s done is done. All I can do at this point is try to watch myself with my own kids and make the best of what I’ve been dealt.

Well, thanks a bunch for bringing all that up! (I kid, I kid).

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thehermit December 28, 2010 at 14:02

Soul killing.
That’s what some of us experienced too early.

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J. Durden December 28, 2010 at 14:06

In response to Thag…

My mother used “I love you” as a guilt trip in order to get me to accept her half-hearted, insincere apologies. My dad never said it much and my older brother only said it when he was drunk. Physical intimacy in my family was pretty much non-existant and whenever my mother tried to hug me I hated it.

You can extrapolate the effects.

AntZ December 28, 2010 at 14:21

My mother is a professional feminist who is paid to prepare reports and present seminars on women’s rights issues around the world.

My mother has four male children who she abused horribly. Like most professional feminists, her government income is dependent on her portrayal of all men as “depraved predators” in need of government shackles and feminist shame. When her children did not act like the devious beasts that she envisions all men to be, she had all of us (11,12, and 13 years old) raped by older women so that we would learn to act like the animals that we were.

For years, I chalked most of the abuse up to the women’s big white lie, that raising children is somehow incredibly difficult. Now that I have my own two wonderful boys, I know this is not the case. Raising children is long work, but it is easy to know right from wrong. Repeated and intentional cruelty to small children is only normal in the fairy tale world of hate-filled radical feminists.

My mother thinks she was a wonderful parent. None of her children has ever confronted her about the years when we were viciously denigrated, belittled, and shamed for the gender of our birth.

I cannot wait for the day that she dies.

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Keoni Galt December 28, 2010 at 14:32

I would add that while growing up in a fatherless home is a disaster for children…on a slightly lesser degree of awful is children growing up in a home in which the Mother rules the roost, wears the pants and lays down the law to her beta husband who’s balls she has firmly ensconced in her purse.

Girls grow up in this environment are the next generation of ball busting bitches, while the boys are the next generation of pussywhipped AMCs.

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Lovekraft December 28, 2010 at 14:32

Mommy’s entertaining uncle, I can hear them through the walls.
I never hear my latest uncle, I draw pictures of them all. Sycophants.
Here, between, behind the walls.

That’s how mommy gets her kicks, she shows me all her tricks.
She knows the symbols, says the nicest things.
Now I’m lunging in. While uncle plunges in, while uncle lunges in.

Lilith’s Daughter, from the album “Down in the City of Heartbreak and Needles”
Edward Ka-Spel

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Rebel December 28, 2010 at 14:38

It happens more than we think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th0yGBy73GA

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Ragnar December 28, 2010 at 14:38

J.Durden.
You are a good man and a damn good writer. I like your sincerity and your way of finding MRA related stuff in lyrics.
You are probably also a good friend to those who are fortunate enough to be your friends.
You are also not the only one who has been run over by a bus called mother.
Keep going . . . ;)

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Keyster December 28, 2010 at 14:58

My parents were both flawed people; domestic turmoil throughout my childhood was the norm. Mother was a neurotic alcoholic, father was border line personality disorder with moments of psychosis. Neither were parent material, but at least mother tried. I’ve got all the stories of almost perpetual tumult.

I carried around the anger for a while and then decided one day to forgive them, especially father. I decided to rise above all the crazy bullshit of the past and put it behind me. I understood I was a better person than them. None of that “baggage” mattered anymore. They were who they were and it was what it was. My adult perspective viewed them as high functioning children of a sort. They were so self-obsessed on battling each other, they really didn’t know what they were doing. This war WAS their married life, the meaning of their existence. I pitied them for having such wasted lives. Neither one knew how to cope with the other’s “eccentricities”. They were stuck in a strange pattern of abuse, accusations and trying to “win” whatever the argument was over. Neither one would give in to the other.

You gotta forgive. Stop the cycle of pain. These were broken people. Don’t go around being broken yourself. Accept it for what it was and move on jarhead.

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Ragnar December 28, 2010 at 15:13

You gotta forgive. Stop the cycle of pain. These were broken people. Don’t go around being broken yourself. Accept it for what it was and move on jarhead.

Jep, growing up and becoming a man means one’s father turn into being just another man!

Just forgive . . . and your mother too.

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Thag Jones December 28, 2010 at 15:23

I read your “Mommy Issues” post and man, that is dark and hard to read. It IS amazing to come out the other end of such unbelievable darkness.

I suppose what was at times for me a murderous rage has calmed to a sort of core of melancholy over the years, and a dislike for celebrations and the like, which is why I still don’t like Christmas much but do it for my kids (I can recall one Christmas where we had a tree and presents, the rest of them I dreaded going back to school to tell everyone who asked that I got nothing for Christmas, but would qualify it with “I didn’t really want anything” so they’d leave me alone). If I didn’t have kids I’d probably try to sleep through Christmas. I’m planning to spend new years with an equally melancholy male friend watching classic horror and drinking a few JD and cokes (neither of us generally drinks much, so two each will get us good and toasty, lol).

Right, I think I’ve said enough. If my mom finds these comments I’ll have to move! :P

I appreciate your honesty and insight. I think you’re a bit younger than I am and I’ve been impressed with some of the writers I’ve come across in the manosphere who I have assumed were older but seem to possess a good deal of wisdom at a young age (novaseeker comes to mind as one of those people). It does give me some hope that at least there are still some thinkers out there.

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thehermit December 28, 2010 at 15:45

You gotta forgive. Stop the cycle of pain

It sounds so easy. I did forgive long ago, but that doesn’t mean i can forget.
I’ve learned that to feel anger about your parents leads nowhere. Useless. They have made mistakes, as you are making mistakes as a parent.
Meanwile, it does not change the facts. Sometimes- and with some people- the hurt cuts too deep.

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Joe December 28, 2010 at 15:46

I despise my mother. She’s an asshole. So many of us have to live with that. It takes some getting used to.

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Thag Jones December 28, 2010 at 15:48

Forgiveness comes in its own time and cannot be forced. It is given by Grace.

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 15:59

My mother never loved me. I never heard had say any nice things to me before.

To this day, my mother hates and is afraid of me. considering I had sprouted.

Personally I never believed for a second that a woman has a capacity for love. Other than for a love of a bottle of booze or herself.

But then again I don’t give two shits about women. Let them spread their legs open and pay the consequences for their own stupidity.

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 16:02

You know the old saying goes, better to ignore the female species altogether. And continue onward to whichever path a man’s desires.

No woman is worth a man’s time and effort. She would be always be an idiot.

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sharp December 28, 2010 at 16:27

Long story short my mother wasn’t/isn’t bad all things considered. My father died when I was 4 so she did the best she could, as they say.

An little anecdote: recently she was talking about a situation at her job, explaining how a group of women were gossiping about the goings on, and she said: “I didn’t join in, I don’t get involved with that women shit”.

I smiled at the comment. That’s how my mother is really. She’s feminine but not a girly girl.

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 16:33

A reminder for all men,

You’re on your own. You would always be alone. No one is going to give you a helping hand. people will attack and mock you when you’re down. Just get up, dust off the dirt and continue onward.

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J. Durden December 28, 2010 at 16:38

Misterb,

I dunno about all that jazz. I’ve been kicked to the curb plenty of times but I’ve had lots of helping hands too.

singledad December 28, 2010 at 16:44

There are about 13.7 million single parents in the United States

today, and those parents are responsible for raising 21.8 million

children. About 84 percent of custodial parents are mothers and

16 percent are fathers. In other words, more than one in six

single parents is a man.Learn more visit:

single Dads

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 16:46

J Durden,

From personal experience, life is an interesting thing. I learned at a young age, women and men will look down at you. View you lesser than an animal. Not worthy to be one of them.

In truth, women are cold callous species.

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J. Durden December 28, 2010 at 16:49

Perhaps so, perhaps not. I’ve been helped by men much more than I have by women, of course, but I don’t really seek out help/advice/etc from women either.

misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 17:00

I don’t ask for anything either. In fact, I don’t say anything at all.

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Loki December 28, 2010 at 17:17

This is not a comment against Thag Jones, because I think that she is a good person, even though we have different views on religion.

The definition of “forgiveness” that seems beneficial to me is “to stop feeling anger or resentment against,” when done properly.

And by “done properly” I mean: 1) analyze what happened in order to understand why it happened and what effect it had on you, 2) identify what you need to do to heal your injuries, and 3) when you inevitably think about this past, consciously remove your energy from it.

Note that #3 doesn’t mean to try to “block it out.” Instead it means to acknowledge and accept it, but to consciously stop feeding it your energy, so that it can no longer hurt you, by proxy.

Whatever it was is long gone and can itself no longer hurt you. But it can still hurt you by proxy, if you use it to hurt yourself.

The problem that I have with “forgiveness” is its common use as some kind of religious magic to make the past not as bad as it actually was, or to claim that it somehow no longer matters, or to say that the guilty are somehow no longer guilty.

If you come to the conclusion that what happened was not intentional and malicious, and that it could not have been prevented through reasonable care, then there is nothing to forgive.

If the person responsible accepts responsibility, and does everything possible to undo the damage to you and to fix the problem within herself, then recognition of a new present, and not “absolution of the past,” would be the appropriate response.

In any case, “forgiveness” should not apply to unchanged filth, or to a self-serving woman who claims “regret” without devoting herself to repair.

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DevilDog December 28, 2010 at 17:24

I come from a single mother household too, but my story is a bit different. My mother is egyptian and was forced into marriage at a young age (18) to a man she didn’t know at all and did not want. But with family pressure had no choice, got pregnant and was frequently getting beat and my father was threatening to kill her and me when I was still in the womb (credibility verified, first i thought she was just trying to turn me against my father, but many sources verified all of it actually happened)..

So she fled her town one night and caught a flight to America with the little money she had, and moved in with her aunt and uncle. Lived with them for the majority of my life, very stable, traditional, religious (Islamic) family. My mother was and is the furthest from your typical american woman, and tried her best to create stability for me as a child and overall is a great and level headed woman.

BUT, growing up without a FATHER, even though there were men in the household was tough.. I can’t really explain it, but it just always felt wrong. When I was in 2nd grade I was aware of this, it all just felt wrong. I went through my life confused and lost because I had no father to guide me. My mother tried her best but she could never grasp how to raise a boy and let a boy be a boy.. At a young age I definitely had some feminine traits as a result. Up until highschool I broke away from her parenting and basically became the dominant figure in the household, I was the MAN of the house and she was just my mother.

I was hypermasculine and was running with a gang and was violent, dysfunctional, and very very confused. My mental and emotional health was completely wrecked from the beginning regardless of her efforts to raise me correctly, my school life was a failure since high school, and she never tried to instill any discipline or work ethic in me, she spoiled me and just kept loving me and hoped it would all work itself out. Well, up until 19 I was very confused and lost, with no father I couldn’t find my natural masculine self. I was trying to but couldn’t.

I didn’t know crap about being a responsible man, I was a feral kid. I had to learn everything for myself, I had to work through everything by myself with no help, and sat down and really thought about my life. I enlisted in the Marine Corps at 19 and they whipped my ass up into shape real quick. It was exactly what I needed and WANTED, my hyper masculinity toned down and I started to figure out myself and basically who I was. If I hadn’t enlisted in the Corps I most likely would’ve been in prison right now.

So yeah, I really really really wish I had a father in my life, I’m in my 20s and really wish I could have that father/son bond.. F*ck what feminists and brainless Women say, a child NEEEEEEDDDDDDS HIS/HER FATHER. ABSOLUTELY NEEDS. My dysfunction and less than favorable childhood is not the exception, it’s the NORM with single mother homes. No matter how amazing your mom might be, if you don’t have a father theres a high chance your struggling in many ways.

Also I F*CKING DESPISE Women who say “I dont need a man” blah blah blah, I DESPISE single mothers, I hate girls who think they can raise a kid without the father, I hate them all. Because I KNOW what it’s like, and it’s not f*cking enjoyable. 41% single parent rate in America, assholes are f*cking their kids before they even get a chance to know what the f*ck is going on. Motherfuckers.

A lot of you guys seem to have bad experiences with your mothers unlike me, but I’m here to say, even with a good mother but no father, it’s not any better.

In future, include the asterisk in the “F” word as previously requested..

Christian J.
Moderator

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Xpat2 December 28, 2010 at 17:33

Good work, JD. You can write about bitter things in your life in a way that’s tempered with enough compassion, insight and vulnerability that it’s not pure spleen, so it works really well. I feel a little uneasy with respect to the commandment and all (“Honor thy . . .”) but that’s not on your menu anymore, so what can I say? (Plus, in stuff I’ve read, it’s obviously not a straightforward thing even for a believer to parse that commandment when abusive parents are involved, since there’s a competing imperative to be honest, e.g. The Anchoress.) Anyway, hope to see a lot more of your writing!

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Thag Jones December 28, 2010 at 17:37

Loki,

I don’t think it much matters if the person has changed or not unless you are planning on being emotionally involved with that person. Ultimately, forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself, or that God gives you, if you like. “Grace” doesn’t have to mean religious magic (I don’t personally believe in magic) but something that comes to you if you’re open and if you are able to really step aside from the pain of a situation.

I’m only speaking from my own experience of being able to forgive, and it’s taken such a long time (or so it seems) in some ways. But I agree with you that an understanding of the situation – which usually involves seeing the forgivee as a flawed human being who is also in pain – is part of the road to forgiveness, and that all tends to take a bit of time and doesn’t work on a forced schedule. That sort of expands on what I meant a bit.

Forgiveness is cancelling a debt and not holding it against a person, no matter what they did to you. It wipes the slate clean. It doesn’t mean there is no injury or that it’s forgotten, nor does it necessarily mean reconciliation, but we stop continuing to injure ourselves through our unwillingness or inability to forgive.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 10
Xpat2 December 28, 2010 at 17:42

Man, Devil Dog’s good, too. You guys ought to throw together an anthology. Get about 5 or 6 other guys like you who write well and have a story to tell.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
CorkyAgain December 28, 2010 at 17:57

My parents are still together, but my mother definitely ran the family. It’s only recently that I’ve become fully aware that my entire extended family is matriarchal in its structure.

This is most obvious during holiday get-togethers, which are organized and controlled entirely by the women. The socializing at these gatherings seems to be designed to foster the illusion of a “big, happy family” — and it’s the women who define what that happiness should consist of.

Gossip, mostly. That, and mandatory attendance at the Queen’s court. Who hasn’t sat bored out of your skull at one of these affairs? They say how much they’ve missed you and enjoy having you there, but then they completely ignore you. The point is simply that you are there to pay homage to them.

At least there’s a game on TV. Unless the get-together is at the farmhouse in Southern Illinois, where there never seems to be decent cable.

It’s been a long time since I caved in and went to one of these things. But every year I get the letters begging me to come. I just toss them in the trash. I know that if I did go, nothing would be changed. Even after all these years.

I’ve been divorced for more than fifteen years now. She ran the family too. Funny how so many of us marry women like our Moms. My two sons are grown now. One still lives with her, the other recently moved out to live with his girlfriend. Neither of them comes to see me much anymore, but I don’t mind. The last thing I want is to have them come visiting only because they think it’s a duty that they have to suffer through.

But I’ll bet they had to be at her house for Christmas, or there’d be hell to pay.

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Rebel December 28, 2010 at 18:00

@AntZ

I would like to humbly suggest you settle the accounts with your mother and set the record straight with her.

You owe it to yourself.

The scar will last until you have spoken your mind to her.

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 18:21

Family get togethers. I had no idea that they exist in real life. I thought they exist only on screen.

Naturally being excluded from such functions. I think its a blessing. At least women don’t expect me to pay homage. They’re too high and mighty for the likes of me. :P

But hey, ;) I have been called and labelled many things from mangina, a racist, a misogynist, the white knight, a thief, a squatter, a parasite, a subhuman.

Personally I don’t harbour any hostility toward a Jew, a Muslim, or whatever religion you hail from. A man is allowed to live wherever he wants. It’s a big country and open wide space too.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
CorkyAgain December 28, 2010 at 18:24

Rebel,

Not sure I agree with what seems the underlying premise of your advice.

Here, this guy explains my misgivings better than I could myself.

The idea that we have to express ourselves in order to heal just feels so … female. Women like the talking cure, because it’s something they do so well. LOL. Psychotherapy found most of its first patients among neurotic females.

Me, I think the problem is we spent too much time obsessing on this stuff and analysing it to death. (Again, the same way most women do with their “relationships”. All they do, in my opinion, is make things worse.)

Accept the hand that’s been dealt you, don’t pretend it’s something it’s not. Get an accurate sitrep and move on to your next objective.

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J. Durden December 28, 2010 at 18:41

You guys ought to throw together an anthology. Get about 5 or 6 other guys like you who write well and have a story to tell.

That’s kind of what The Spearhead is, isn’t it? ;)

misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 18:50

at least my grandmother gave me left overs, mostly leftovers. Okay, mostly scraps.

To be honest with you. I am fortunate to have a roof over my head. You can’t beat having a warm dry place to sleep in. The best to stay warm is by the wood stove, next to the family dog.
I may be a little weird, and a little too upbeat.

Even though I am not sarcastic. And at the risk of sounding sarcastic. I wonder how do you other guys sleep when growing up.

At least its good to know the females are always comfortable.

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Xpat2 December 28, 2010 at 18:56

“You guys ought to throw together an anthology. Get about 5 or 6 other guys like you who write well and have a story to tell.”

That’s kind of what The Spearhead is, isn’t it?

Well, yeah, point taken. But I mean a book. A best-seller. A seminal collection on the father deficit. A much read, hard-hitting guide for perplexed young men. That kind of thing.

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J. Durden December 28, 2010 at 19:14

Mr. Price does want to go into publishing…

misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 19:22

crap another typo, I wonder where do you guys sleep, when growing up. never mind about that.

Crowded house can pose problems for sleeping arrangements. Depending where you are from.

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Keyster December 28, 2010 at 20:46

…consciously remove your energy from it.

It’s not something that’s “talked out” or over analyzed. All you remember is how much it hurt when you were young. You weren’t mature enough to rationalize or process it. The impressionable child’s pain lingers into adulthood. Forgiveness isn’t something you can magically reach out for and do. It takes will.

You reach deep down inside yourself and accept emotional infractions past. These people had no idea what they were doing to you. It wasn’t personal and it wasn’t your fault. (They were likely hurt while young themselves.) Their only crime is that they’re emotionally flawed people, and you have to recognize this, within yourself. Then you’ll be free of the child’s pain, or what’s now the adult’s anger. The gift of forgiveness is not for them, it’s for you.

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 21:02

At the risk of sounding foolish.

Sometimes forgiveness can cleanse the soul. And compassion can sometimes strengthen a man’s heart.

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crypter27 December 28, 2010 at 21:05

This hits close to home,my parents divorced but my father managed to get full custody of me & my little bro’s Thank God!! Dispite the full custody my dad let my mother come around some times & all she left was childhood skars my mom is skitzo,theres one lesson. She taught me not to trust women,I have what you call mommy issues. I know exactly how you feel J Durden!

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crypter27 December 28, 2010 at 21:36

Antz Oh my God you were raped & I thought I had it bad!

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Rebel December 28, 2010 at 21:40

CorkyAgain December 28, 2010 at 18:24

“The idea that we have to express ourselves in order to heal just feels so … female. Women like the talking cure, because it’s something they do so well. LOL. Psychotherapy found most of its first patients among neurotic females.”

It’s more than talk. It’s a resetting of the corrupted data.And talking is not only female. What are we doing here..?
In this case, we are not dealing with the usual futile psychotherapy but a discharge of a very negative and heavy emotional baggage.
Evrything is not black and white but shades.

In passing, I think that psychotherapy, psychology, psychiatry are all things thought out and created by men. At least for the most part.

Psychology is, therefore, a masculine activity, a masculine discovery (like all other discoveries). Women are using it, at least some kind of commercialized version, but they did not invent it.

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misterb aka misterbastard December 28, 2010 at 21:41

My grandparents were poor. And my cousins like to eat. they somehow save leftovers for me to eat.

I later found out that my grandparents fasted a day so I can eat. Upon discovering that, I felt terrible for putting my grandparents through that. Elders needs to be look after, a woman has no right in plopping a child on to their laps.

Grandparents don’t need to look after their daughter’s children. They’re done raising kids, give them some dignity for crying out loud.

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crella December 28, 2010 at 21:50

A lot of women run their households like their own personal fiefdoms…controlling everybody’s every move, with themselves as the center. I think a lot of women are small-minded. When I was in high school and a lot of women were going back to work, or out to work for the first time (mid-late 70s) I saw so many women claim that the money they earned was ‘their money’. It seemed awfully childish, after all it wasn’t jacks or marbles they were talking about but family income. My mother pulled the same sh*t (pardon). She started looking after a couple of the neighbor’s kids in a lean period when my Dad got laid off. She spent that babysitting money as fast as they handed her the check every week, and on junk.

I see bossing the family around the same way. It certainly isn’t making a home, or anything else for their families, nagging incessantly over trivia. It just looks pretty unintelligent and/or petty.

I’m another one with a wacky mother. She was brought up by a bitter spiteful Irish Catholic (apologies to all non-bitter non-spiteful Irish Catholics) and grew up with her head really screwed up. Her mother would shun her for years at a time for things like not picking a house in the neighborhood she approved of, any independent thinking was punished with 3-5 years of snubbing. That side of the family didn’t come to my wedding because I ‘had the nerve to marry’ before my older cousin. You can see what sweethearts they are….

Anyhow, mom consciously or unconsciously*, used much the same tactics in raising us. A poor grade was met with days of silence, any disagreement would send her out of the room wailing ‘You don’t love me and I’m your mother!’ Absolute obedience was the order of the day, and don’t dare break one of her rules, but on the other hand punishment was utterly arbitrary in both type and application. THAT’S what drove me berserk, even as a 5-year-old. Her meting out of punishment was not fair…..didn’t fit the crime (overboard, hysterical spankings), she got the wrong one, she lashed out because she wasn’t feeling well, and she changed the rules at random with her moods. She also broke promises with abandon. She’d promise us ice cream after dinner (while eating some herself before dinner) but after dinner, would take it away from each of us for random transgressions during that day (“You slammed the porch door, none for you”) A silly example, perhaps, but representative of the petty screwing with people. “Forget” she said we could have friends over, go out , or worse, she’d flat out deny she’d ever promised if she didn’t feel like doing what she’d earlier agreed to, and call whoever was trying to make her keep her promise a liar. *Ironic that she used the same methods that supposedly made her so miserable, could she be that blind, to not see she was doing the same thing?

I thought ‘To hell with this”…I wasn’t in grade school yet when I learned/decided I could not trust her, that she would not have my back if push came to shove, and I made the conscious decision to depend on my father. He was my rock since then till his passing a few years ago.

If it weren’t for my father, I’d probably be a crazy cat lady……

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Gx1080 December 29, 2010 at 01:33

I can’t really relate to many of the stories in here, since my parents are luckily still married.

But by watching my 15 year old cousin hanging out with a bunch of low-cut pissants and crashing his mom’s car -twice-….says everything that I need to know. Also, the kids that I know that come from single mom households get fucked up in the head. One guy got heavy into drinking and -you guessed it- he’s a minor.

That’s another thing, since single moms can’t do things for themselves, they put responsabilities to their children that they aren’t prepared to have.

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Lara December 29, 2010 at 05:32

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Lara December 29, 2010 at 05:38

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Lara December 29, 2010 at 05:44

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Lara December 29, 2010 at 05:53

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Seamus the Classicist December 29, 2010 at 05:59

Lara, truth can exist outside the viewer, hence why it is called truth. Generalizations and Rules can be made about all observable phenomenon. This is what the first Greek Natural Philosophers discovered (amazing how much those mysogenistic Greeks advanced) and that which the peripetetics (Plato and Aristotle) advanced, laying the foundations for Science.

“Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis.” The Exception confirms the rule in cases not excepted. Or the exception proves/tests the rule.

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J. Durden December 29, 2010 at 06:13

I’ve expressed disappointment in my older son or said something critical of him and he will cry over it. He does need guidance and to be told when he is wrong, but I also try to be aware of the fact that because I’m his mother I should more accepting of him than anyone.

It’s not like a mother needs to accept everything about her son all the time. There’s a difference between discipline / being stern and psychological abuse.

AntZ December 29, 2010 at 07:07

@Rebel

Thanks for your kind wishes. My mother is very frail, and dying from emphysema and liver cirrhosis (due to alcoholism and heavy smoking). She cannot handle the truth. After she dies, I will speak to her in a way that will not harm her, and will help me. That is why I look forward to that day. Also, I was the oldest, and least affected by it all. My younger brothers suffered more than I did, and have never spoken to anyone. They are eager to have the past buried.

The word “rape” has such an incendiary effect on people. My mother brought me to her boyfriend’s house and closed the door after telling me “there is someone waiting for you” — it turned out to be a prostitute. I was confused and avoided women for the next six years, but I would have been over this years ago. The wound that will not heal is the daily, unrelenting rejection and shame heaped upon all of us due to the gender of our birth. As boys, we were … well, you all know what feminists think of men.

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crella December 29, 2010 at 07:21

made some ignorant comment in front of her kids about how her youngest son was the best out of the three and she got it right the third time.

My mother’s frequent comment at dinner parties was that they kept on trying until they had a boy (my brother is the youngest of us three). Due to the problems my mother had when I was born, she was advised to have no more. She defied the doctors, because she wanted a son. This was her stock story of bravery and derring-do…… what were my sister and I ? Mistakes? Spares?

but for most women it can be hard to always be in a good mood when you have a messy house and kids running around like wild and a husband that is annoying you.

So you do something about it, you don’t take it out on people….

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) December 29, 2010 at 10:06

J,

“All the while, my mother could never own up to what she did to us children, waxing sentimental about how we could all get back together some day and be “a real family again.” Excuse me while I vomit.”

Yes. My ex has never, to my knowledge, owned up to what she did to her children. And her position in the family was aptly summarised by her then 26 year old son. I’ve put the quote here a few times but once more for the young men.

“I will never get married because I might get a wife like my mother.”

Young men. When a man of 26 is willing to say that to his step-father of 20 years? Well? I can’t add too much to such a comment. The boy was living with us recouperating from cancer as we ended our marriage. It is not like he was talking about ‘years ago’. He got to see, up close and personal, as an adult, just how badly his mother behaved as an adult. Like you J? He actually had the balls to say something about it. I have the balls to repeat it in the public. Many young mens lives are in the balance. They have a right to know that this ‘never criticise your mother’ scam was exactly that, a scam.

POIUYT December 28, 2010 at 13:13
“On the contrary it is the menfolk of this place that are different to others for caving into and capitulating to every single demand of females and genderists.”

POIUYT, correct. It is the dickless, spineless manginas who attack any man that a woman claims ‘upset her’ that are the greatest enemy of our entire society. You can find 1,000+ of them over here. http://tirnasaor.com/forum Feel free to drop by and tell them what you think. Feel free to say I invited you to do so. The men here called me ‘greedy and selfish’ for working on saving young mens lives. They obviously use a different dictionary to me. Men in this place must be willing to go to other places like TNS and call the men there on their manginaness. It’s not the women we need to deal with. It’s the ‘men’ (small letters intentional).

AntZ December 28, 2010 at 14:21
“I cannot wait for the day that she dies.”

Yep…a few more men say things like this publicly? And the young men are going to start to get the message. It is no crime to speak your mind.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) December 29, 2010 at 10:11

crella December 29, 2010 at 07:21

Crella, my mum wanted a daughter and I was the 3rd boy. She bought a female dog after I was born!!

Many years later, after I was 18, she confided in me that she had wanted a girl and that I was ‘the greatest disappointment in her life’ being born a boy but you never would have known that the whole time I grew up. No man had a better mother and father than we did. I got lucky. I didn’t realise how lucky until I was 31.

In any case. I redeemed myself for my ‘failure’ when I produced a grand-daughter! LOL! Damn my mum spoiled that little girl!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) December 29, 2010 at 10:15

Lara December 29, 2010 at 05:32
“Boys are surprisingly sensitive to their mother’s opinion of them. I’ve expressed disappointment in my older son or said something critical of him and he will cry over it. He does need guidance and to be told when he is wrong, but I also try to be aware of the fact that because I’m his mother I should more accepting of him than anyone.”

Lara, that right there tells me you know nothing about raising boys. Absolutely nothing. I am very, very sorry for your boys. I hope they recover from you being their mother.

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continent December 29, 2010 at 10:21

Interesting story and good comments. Just don’t take it personally if you see a lot “Dislike” marks on your post. After Poynter 99 posted this link, I visited it for the first time and they plan joint attck of “Dislike” on The Sperhead: Link,
http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/4365/t/Now-she-s-comparing-women-to-cars.html?page=1

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Lara December 29, 2010 at 10:27

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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greyghost December 29, 2010 at 10:31

Many years later, after I was 18, she confided in me that she had wanted a girl and that I was ‘the greatest disappointment in her life’ being born a boy but you never would have known that the whole time I grew up. No man had a better mother and father than we did. I got lucky. I didn’t realise how lucky until I was 31.

This is what a real woman and mother and father are supposed to do. Still human but guided by principals of right and wrong. Greatest disapointment a mother had was the birth of a son. Same son makes this quote “No man had a better mother and father than we did”. This is coming from you know who of all people. Now that is really saying something. No modern femminist woman can touch this women. Infact this comment will most likely sail over the head nearly 100 percent of the women that ever read it.
Human animals are full of primal emotions of jealiousy, hate,love disappointments,lust, fear what have you. People civilized through culture,religion, customs,etc. and strenthened with day to day responsiblities will have something to truely offer their offspring.

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greyghost December 29, 2010 at 10:38

I don’t think I would ever disown my kids, but yeah, feel free to give me parenting advice.

Lara you are a clueless piece of shit. You have nothing to offer this world. You are nothing but a beneficiary of others work. You come here and make comments on others observations and ideas never offering shit.
BTW how would a worthless cunt like you know when anything is truely right or wrong.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 4
J. Durden December 29, 2010 at 10:43

Interesting story and good comments. Just don’t take it personally if you see a lot “Dislike” marks on your post. After Poynter 99 posted this link, I visited it for the first time and they plan joint attck of “Dislike” on The Sperhead

Oh no, someone might not like what I have to say! I’m not used to that at all.

Anti Idiocy December 29, 2010 at 10:47

This is off topic but related to men’s issues, so I thought people here would like seeing this. To get an idea of how widespread men’s issues have become take a look at the discussion thread here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/my-friends-and-i-are-thrilled-about-falling-housing-prices-2010-12#comment-4d1b8174cadcbb3f26010000

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Man December 29, 2010 at 13:52

Nice attacks on Lara but none of them will work. Thumbs down don’t make a difference. Instead it enjoys the negative attention. It’s a troll. None of her comments are sincere, they’re bait made to provoke. It’s probably not even a women. You’re wasting your time.

The only solution to “Lara”, is if she gets bored and leaves, or gets banned. Otherwise she will continue derailing comment threads indefinitely. Welmer is a fair guy but sometimes to a fault I think. Get rid of her. She’s probably surprised she lasted this long and laughs about it.

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CM December 29, 2010 at 15:35

My mother has about 80% of the parrntal authority. While she does nothing but sit at home and watch TV in her mansion – she is the one to go to on most things. Only if it is serious and big do I go to my dad. But she controlams him with a leash and choke collar, not to mention the children who she sucsessfully alienated from the father. The guy cant really do anything on his own or without her approval even though she is helpless makes not a penny and has no skills other than cooking – something she rarely does. What she mostly does is gossip about the family – and im her favorite target. A old feminist entitled fragile know it all – she lives her days in lamentation to how her little boy now is gone and become depressed and has things wrong with his brain – has no friends and cant get along with the ladies. constantly she projects these weaknesses upon me and then takes action to fix them which involve her invading interrupting and destroying my freedoms (as I am financially dependent on my dad). I have had some delays in finding what i want to do – but this lady supposes anyone that thinks anything outside of what her feminist church of ideology is – should be medicated and taken to a ward! My dad was holding out on this view for the longest but finnaly he gave into her perspective. Now she and my older sister have even got my brother ensnared and i face a conspiracy of gossip and self righteous comdenation from my entire nuclear family. She thinks im the devil because Im repelled by open display of homosexuality – and because i asked a table of outrageously loud obnoxious and rude women to quiet down at our recent family reunion (even though she agreed they were being rude). Suffice to say ive told nobody but my brother who recently married about my interest and involvement in the MRM. He seems on the fence about it (after lending the benifit of the doubt and forgetting his alliance with my mother who wants to isolate and degrade my character) It has taken me a long time to realize the sorcery like oppression ive faced at the hands of my family. Though my dad is very generous and endowed man of forgiveness, his wife is a rampant powerhouse and dictator. This article is a syncronistic oppertunity for me to actually voice my experiences. I dont beleive in Gossip. Talking behind someones back and never faceing the person but working behind thd scenes to destroy his credibility amongst those around. But none of u know my family and even if you did, im not giving names or character assasinating them as they have done to me my whole life. Nay im not speaking about them as individuals but only my experience – since this relates to the article – which is about mothers who lead the pack when they should certainly not. I could go on but ill just wrap it up saying that if the MRM is to help men and boys on healing from ancient wounds passed down by hegemonic systems and familial ties, it must investigate the hidden or not so hidden works of poor mothering. As of yet this is the only article ive read about the toxic powers of bad mothers. More work and study should be done on behalf of men and boys upon abusive mothering. I commend this author for bringing this to light – takes courage and helps me and im sure many others. 10x

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J. Durden December 29, 2010 at 15:52

Thanks, CM.

Satyajit Roy December 29, 2010 at 17:39

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Joeb December 29, 2010 at 18:00

I feel bad for you durden. I’m a little older and watched a feminist group take my three kids from me. All the while insane Laws prohibited me from Getting the Kids Back, This same feminist group introduced my wife to Crack cocaine and the Nightmare for me children began.
They were often beaten by insecure boyfriends and finally they were kidnapped and tied to chairs while a psychotic 19 year old Crack head boyfriend abused my children at knife point . He spent fore years in prison my ex spent six months .
The courts held up my request for guardianship and gave the mother the children back. It was like dealing with retarded social workers . All the while I had to pay child support . So some psychopath could eat my children food and sleep all day on my couch.
As a Father I felt like killing myself every day . This system of mothers raising men has got to go. I for one would fight and die to make this system go away.
I feel for all you children , My heart breaks when I think about It . My friend s and family ask me why I’m so angry , Its the old saying: Did that hurt because I didn’t feel a thing. But i felt It and I feel your Pain.

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XS December 29, 2010 at 18:07

This thread has been an eye opener for me, and Satyajit Roy has touched on the subject. I’ve been following the Spearhead for months now and see how feminism has destroyed the family across the western world. However this thread goes much deeper, it’s not just about feminism but about society in general. I’m not American, I’m from Europe, and I don’t wish to cast aspersions on American society, however it seems to me that J has no sense of family or society. That is what’s so sad about the OP, the sense of nobody to support him, no family or society around him. J, you said that you moved to Utah when you were 17, I guess that’s like moving to another country, hundreds of miles away from home. You didn’t say why you picked that location but it doesn’t seem like you had any family or support there.

When I wished that things would turn around for you in my earlier post I think that’s what I meant. A sense of support from other people, a family and friends to be there for you. That’s what I wish for you, in whatever form it takes. Good luck son.

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J. Durden December 29, 2010 at 18:18

I know that Westerners in general and Americans in particular are into “individualism” and “flying the coop” as early as possible, but I fail to see what is the harm in a mother ruling the roost of the home and being the final decision maker for her children at least until they are of legal adult age.

Nothing in theory, unless your mother is an emotionally abusive hag who doesn’t know how to love her family, let alone herself.

XS – that’s exactly what’s been missing in my life, and the lives of many people I have met. It is also what’s attractive about the military – particularly the Marine Corps – to a lot of people. There is very much a sense of community and, dare I say, brotherhood in the Marine Corps. And it continues even after you separate. No substitute for real family, mind you, but it’s still something. Spending Christmas with a former Marine (later undercover FBI agent) was better than any Christmas in recent memory.

Satyajit Roy December 29, 2010 at 18:36

“Nothing in theory, unless your mother is an emotionally abusive hag who doesn’t know how to love her family, let alone herself. ”

Well, see, that’s where the cultures differ. Indian families are no picnic. Our parents are extremely controlling to the point of being obsessed. Our mother frequently threaten suicide if we don’t do what they want us to – even as adults, or, ESPECIALLY as adults – if we don’t go into the field of work they want us to, if we don’t marry the women they picked out for us, etc.

And yet, we still honor and even obey them, or at least honor them in our disobedience. They are like gods to us – literally.

I myself had a traditional arranged marriage despite the fact that I was already dating (behind my parents’ back) a woman I would have preferred to marry at the time. Yes, I was sneaking around my parents back well into my 20s. That’s how dictatorial our culture can be.

So it’s hard for me to relate to American “rugged individualism” when it comes to the relationship between parent and child, even adult child.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 16
XS December 29, 2010 at 19:03

J -

I spent some time in the Philippines visiting friends who moved there. When you marry a Fillipino you marry the family, my friends there have a good life and plenty of family and friends around them. I also met many ex US military who settled there, one of them brought us around the islands and we had a great time, he has a great wife and children and is surrounded by people. He has a great life.

Me, I grew up with an alcoholic father and domineering mother. My father was a real character which I never really appreciated as a child, my mother made sure of that. He was a great singer and had an extraordinary ability to make friends wherever he went. He used to bring us on his truck round when we were children and everyone knew him. I never really appreciated this until I got older. When they split up he couldn’t handle it and eventually threw himself in the river.

My mother was very obsessive, she sucked the life out of us when we were children. It took me years to eventually break free from her emotional control.

I grew up surrounded by extended family, both my parents came from large families. There was lots of family occasions and parties. Despite my parents inadequacies I have a lot of great childhood memories.

I think that’s why I feel sad about your life and hope you experience some of this, I hope this doesn’t sound preachy.

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Joeb December 29, 2010 at 19:06

Ha durden did you guys have a wall of shame in the marines. The first thing i noticed was all the dear John letters posted on the wall of shame . 70% of military men come back to Divorce .
Homelessness and P.T.S. Now that they are slaves in the system do they ever wish they had chosen anouther path .

I know I think about it all the time. This is how women feel about freedom and the cost of it . They spit on use when we get back . reinforced by a corrupt Family court System.

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Satyajit Roy December 29, 2010 at 19:24

Joeb, think about what it’s like for a wife and kids to live with a husband and father with PTSD. I know one man who screamed all through the night. Even us neighbors wanted to move out, what to speak of the other people living in his house.

And I say this with all the respect, gratitude and compassion I have for the troops in my heart. But you can’t think it’s easy for other people to live with someone with PTSD.

My advice would be not to go into the military at all if you want to reduce the risk of ruining your life.

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Joeb December 29, 2010 at 20:10

I don’t think that was the question . 70% have no home to go to, American females divorce as soon as the soldier leaves for duty . The family court system disrupts the duty of these man buy filing suit while in training.
sometimes holding up deployment. These man come home to an alien world of slavery ,debt, homelessness, and health problems . I know . I was looked down upon by a corrupt family court Judge after my duty was done . He smiled as If he was Nobility. many of these Judges are in league with feminist group to increase revenue to the family courts . This corruption goes way deeper then most know about. Two Judges in my area were indited on sex ring, prostitution ,and drug felony’s. Were do you think a family court Judge gets the women to Turn out ,from. The feminist groups supply Fresh Meat every day. Drugged up and ready for prostitution.
There ex husbands will pay the bill, Through C.S.A enforcement. Try to stop it and they will put you in Jail . Sometimes I find it hard to believe most people turn a blind eye to the corruption in the family courts. I have got article after Article piled up on my desk about , drug dealing court workers , stealing computers , strong arming obligor’s ,Heroin , crack , are money making adventures when Uncle SAM is the seller.

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DevilDog December 29, 2010 at 21:41

When Women act like Men, why don’t they ever act like good Men?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 1
Observer December 29, 2010 at 21:44

Few things are more damaging than a mother’s neuroses. Hadn’t heard of this song before. Good find!

I forgot about Sheryl Crow for a minute. Still amazing to think how readily she took credit for the work of those around her. Now I know that going out with Kevin was the biggest thing she ever did for her career. Funny, that.

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Robert in Arabia December 29, 2010 at 23:24

http://caesartort.blogspot.com/

Much to learn here.

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Robert in Arabia December 30, 2010 at 00:01

From http://caesartort.blogspot.com/

The anthropologist Géza Róheim wrote, for instance, that the Australian aborigines he observed were excellent parents, even though they ate every other child, out of what they called “baby hunger” [the mothers also said that their children were “demons”], and forced their other children to eat parts of their siblings. This “doesn’t seem to have affected the personality development” of the surviving children, Róheim said, and in fact, he concluded, these were really “good mothers [who] eat their own children.” [Citing DeMause]

The anthropologist Arthur Hippler wrote about the Aborigines : “The care of children under 6 months of age can be described as hostile, aggressive and careless; it is often routinely brutal. Infanticide was often practiced. … I never observed a single adult Yolngu caretaker of any age or sex walking a toddler around, showing him the world, explaining things to him and empathizing with his needs.”

However incredible it may seem, anthropologists and ethnologists do not condemn these cannibal mothers. Under the first commandment of the discipline, Thou Shalt Not Judge, the emotional after-effects of childrearing are ignored, such as the clearly dissociated personalities that I myself saw in the Ross clinic, and even worse kinds of dissociation.

In the academic world Róheim was not as well known as Philippe Ariès, an historian who collaborated with Foucault and an author of a classic book on the history of childhood, L’enfant et la Vie Familiale sous l’Ancien Régime. Ariès started from the Freudian premise of the benignancy of the milieu towards children in past times. Just as with Róheim, Ariès didn’t deny the beatings, the incest and the other vexations against children described in his book. What he denied was that such treatment caused disturbances.

DeMause’s working hypotheses are simple: (1) within the West the forms of childrearing were more barbarous in the past, and (2) compared to the Western world, other cultures treat their children worse.

In 1963, …. Alan Valentine in his book Fathers and Sons, published by the University of Oklahoma, examined letters from parents to their children in past centuries. He did not find a single letter that transmitted kindness to the addressee.

Once deMause discarded all those who argued on the basis of the argumentum ex silentio, nine historians remained. Even while the contributors were delivering their articles, some of them showed reticence about publishing all the evidence they had found. Before publication the nine contributors — ten with deMause — circulated their articles among themselves.

Most of them were shocked by the first chapter written by deMause, whose initial paragraphs became famous in the history of psychohistory:

“The history of childhood is a nightmare from which we have only recently begun to awaken. The further back in history one goes, the lower the level of child care, and the more likely children are to be killed, abandoned, beaten, terrorized, and sexually abused. It is our task here to see how much of this childhood history can be recaptured from the evidence that remains to us.”

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Migu December 30, 2010 at 04:17

This works for me man.

I just recognize my mother for what she is. “A predatory female.”

Basically she always has a selfish ulterior motive behind each and every action. If you haven’t read the book, I would reccomend it. Just search that phrase in some of the older MM forums, you will find a link.

either way, you still gotta live, and it is better to know that you don’t have a mother, than to delude yourself, or even worse pretend some nightmarish monster is your pure and caring mother.

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Migu December 30, 2010 at 04:31

About 84 percent of custodial parents are mothers and

16 percent are fathers.

Mine was one in the 90′s. He got us all eventually. We are all doing just fine, had we been with mom I for sure would’ve been drugged up and probably in prison by now. She told me I would be just like her brother, and she would see me every couple of years if I was behaving in prison.

It seems like it’s a common ocurrence. Motherless son’s.

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Lara December 30, 2010 at 05:43

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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JE December 30, 2010 at 09:22

Regarding your analysis of the song, I’d suggest that:

He leaves home early for a loveless world
And he finds what he needs with an older boy
He’s got a couple things to hide from Mother
He hopes she’ll understand, she hopes he’ll change

and

This boy was once a strong man, but getting weaker
He carries more than just the shame inside
His mother stays away and faces nothing
She blindly wishes for a happy ending

Suggests that the narrator became involved in a homosexual relationship, contracted AIDS, and that his mother offers him no emotional support as he dies.

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J. Durden December 30, 2010 at 10:11

JE -

Could also be the case. I think I remember reading once that Gilbert dabbled in bisexuality, but I could be remembering wrong. Trying to Google it up now. If that’s the case it certainly makes your interpretation stronger.

J. Durden December 30, 2010 at 10:16

Interesting back story about Kevin Gilbert and Sheryl Crow: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/09/15/PK43609.DTL

Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) December 30, 2010 at 12:24

Lara December 30, 2010 at 05:43
“Peter’s comment to me was mean and he didn’t even explain what he thinks I am doing wrong.”

No Lara, it was not ‘mean’. It was just the truth. What are you doing wrong? Plenty.

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Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) December 30, 2010 at 12:29

greyghost December 29, 2010 at 10:31
“This is coming from you know who of all people.”

Grey Ghost, I think I have mentioned here plenty of times out of the 52 (? or so) grand children I was selected to give the ‘grandchildrens eulogy to the grandmother’ at BOTH my grandmothers funerals. My grandmothers were great women. Just great. As were ALL my aunts. That a woman would be horrible to me came as a GREAT SURPRISE. Like SingleDad said on the other thread. What a Rube.

Case in point? My mum was coming down with dimensia and she was not diagnosed. She obviously knew something was wrong but she was afraid. She, apparently, spoke some harsh words to my Dad after 47 years of marriage. My Dad later told me that in that few months before diagnosis he was terribly upset. He had never known my mum to speak harshly to him in his life and he wondered how this could possibly be happening. Like the great man he is he assumed she was ill and ‘not herself’ and took her to more and more doctors to try and find out what was wrong. He never once believed she meant what she said.

When I was there recently my mum spoke harshly to my dad because of her dimensia. Even though he knew what was going on he was visibly hurt. In talking later I pointed out that I would get a serve like that before getting out of bed in the morning. He marvelled how I had spent 16 years listening to this when he was hurt even knowing his wife was ill and did not mean it.

It speaks volumes that a man married 47 years was very upset at his ill wife speaking harshly to him. How many men can say that? I also wrote a speech for their 50th wedding anniversary…because…as you all know…I hate women. ;-)

GreyGhost.
This summs up my mother. As she was sliding into dimensia I spent a month with her. Just sitting and talking. I knew this was the last time I would see her lucid. As we were talking I told her how much it meant that she came to my graduation. I thanked her for travelling the 440kms to come to such a short ceremony. We all know you are on the stage for all of 5 seconds, right? I told her that she was the best mum a man ever had and that was demonstrated by the success of her three boys. The ‘academic failure’ is a doctor with 5 kids. ;-) The conversation went like this.
Mum: Yes, I was very surprised you boys went to university, and more surprised you graduated.
Me: But mum. I can remember pretty much every day of my life you told me how I was going to go to university one day and get a great job and do great things in the world. You told me that all the time.
Mum: Yes, I know I did, but I never thought it would happen.

That right there sums up my mum. In the face of thinking something was totally impossible, she would ‘go for it’ anyway. What husband would not love a woman who treated his children like that? What husband would not treasure such a woman who never spoke harshly to him in 47 years? And my mum was certainly capable of ‘dishing it out’. Even as I write. I cry.

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Anonymous age 68 December 30, 2010 at 14:25

1. IMO, at least 1/3 of mothers are good candidates for the Wicked Witch of the West. Since we are telling stories, I will add mine, though it would take a book to get all the bad stuff in.

I went to college in my 30′s, night college, while working full time and helping raise kids. I graduated summa cum laude and passed the CPA exam, though I did not change careers. I was the first college graduate ever, in direct ancestry, though an uncle got his in the military.

Near the end of my college work, before I terminated all contact with the insane fiend, one day she told me, in that “put-down” tone of voice, “You’re not the only one going to school. Your sister-in-law is taking classes.”

The next day I asked my brother about it. He laughed and laughed, and said, “My wife is taking cake decorating classes.” ;D She sure put me in my place, didn’t she?

2. Someone said every kid needs a dad. Here in Mexico, people ask me by Internet from the US to take and send them pictures of their families they haven’t seen, sometimes as long as 18 years. A woman, early 30′s, living in Florida hasn’t seen her family, what is left of it, in 13 years, so I took pictures of her uncle and his family. Later, her kids came to visit, the parents are illegals and can’t come across. I went to a birthday party, took pictures and sent to her.

This summer I did it again. I talked to her daughters, good kids who speak perfect English. They told me some of their mom’s life, including not knowing her dad.

Later, she, the mom, asked me if I would be her dad. I am very paternal, and told her, sure, if it didn’t cost me anything. ;D ;D

She writes to me just as if I am truly her dad. She obviously had a very big hole in her heart for not having a dad, and it costs me nothing to help fill that hole. I am paternal enough that I feel as if I have a new daughter.

3. A year or two before my mother died, I called my sister and asked if she thought our mother would write a bunch of letters, and give them to an attorney to mail unopened once a year after she died, trying to cause conflict in the family after she was gone. Sis had a good laugh at that, and said it wouldn’t surprise her.

Then, I asked her if she thought I could park my car down on the River Road, and with painted face and camos, make it up the hill (after Mom died) dig her up, put the stake through her heart, cover her up again, and make it down the hill before sunrise. She laughed five minutes or more.

The day of the funeral, the inner family entered the little tent thingie, beside the coffin. All US people know the scene. I looked and said in a low voice to my sister, “Damn! This coffin has a lock on it. I won’t be able to put the stake in her heart!”

She instantly cracked up, and emitted peals of laughter audible across the entire cemetery. It was obvious that I was the one who prompted it. The good news was she had told so many lies about me over the years, that it couldn’t hurt the opinion of the family towards me any more.

4. PTSD can sometimes be cured, and rapidly. I realize no one is going to believe this, but in the 90′s, a man named Gary Craig came up with a system called EFT. He resigned this last year due to health issues.

He was an engineer, and when he found out modern psychiatric care meant a person might go to a shrink for 20 years with no gain, he said he thought that was not tolerable. So, he did some studying and came up with EFT.

EFT is based on the same principles as acupuncture except you tap body parts rather than use needles. It is based on the belief that the body has great capacity to heal itself, both physically and emotionally.

In the late 90′s, he got a veteran’s hospital to let him try it on long-term hospitalizations with PTSD, and a number of them went home for the first time, after 20 years or more in the hospital. Within a week!

It works on a variety of issues, phobias, even pain and some minor problems often viewed as illnesses, allergies.

My son used it on a fellow student in med school who was falling apart from fear of a test. In three minutes, the man was relaxed and aced the test. Alas, it doesn’t work for my son.

12/23, we took the bus into Mexico City. I often get car sick in the back of the “cattle truck” bus. I decided to use EFT, something I have never bothered to do, and the dizziness and nausea simply went away.

The URL is newsetter.eftuniverse.com There are a few EFT videos on youtube, but most in English get taken down fast. There used to be a free manual, not sure if the new guy still gives that out or not.

I would wish that everyone who knows anyone with any serious issues, but especially those soldiers carrying around so much bad stuff, would at least look into EFT and decide for yourself if it is something you want to try or recommend.

There are also certified practitioners all over the US. People who charge like shrinks but who most of the time get real results.

Do not take my word on this. Make sure you are confident to try it.

Note that I have no financial interest at all. I did counseling of divorced men for ten years, and wish I’d had EFT then.

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Satyajit Roy December 30, 2010 at 15:50

Anonymous age 68, I’ve tried EFT for stuff like mild depression, but didn’t stay with it long enough to notice any significant changes.

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Joeb December 30, 2010 at 19:32

Eft worked for a while but, Its something that you may forget to do some days .S j said it right Could not stay with it any advice.

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crella December 31, 2010 at 01:40

Even as I write. I cry.

I’m sorry Peter. My heart goes out to you and your father. Both my husband’s parents got dementia, MIL a year after FIL died from it, (combined with cancer). It’s a terrible disease. I am so glad you took the chance to sit with your mother and talk to her before she forgot too much. We tried with FIL, but he had a terrible case of it, and the cancer symptoms exacerbated his confusion. MILs progression is much slower, DH is asking her about her childhood, and when he was little.

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CashingOut December 31, 2010 at 17:27

Thumbs up on your article Durden. Chin up though, you managed to see the light and get out relatively unscathed (or as unscathed as you can in those situations). I really do think that matriarchies are a major reason why men who are screwed up, are in fact screwed up. As I have stated before on this site, whenever you see a dysfunctional family, chances are very good that there’s a woman or women running it.

I’m virtually kicked out of my family at this point because I won’t take their feminist man-hating bullshit, and I’ve said openly what I will do to them and their white knighting enablers if they try to come up to me with that bullshit in the name of “family” or any such shit. However, the freedom I have, and the amount I’ve been able to grow, is well worth it.

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J. Durden December 31, 2010 at 17:40

You know what’s funny is that, on a whim, I submitted this to the TwoX subreddit (a subreddit for women, basically) not because I wanted to troll them or anything but because I genuinely wanted female feedback. Every time I choose to talk about my mother with females, the problem is always my fault. One went so far as to accuse me of blaming my mother for everything wrong in my life. I lolled.

Silly me, trying to bridge the gap and having meaningful conversation!

Joeb December 31, 2010 at 19:33

Table 5. Gender differences in interaction type

Type Instructor Students Total

Males females
# % # % # % # %
6. Give information 40 25% 66 25% 144 31% 210 29%
7. Ask for information 13 8 15 6 10 2 25 3

This was a study linked to a circumplex , Women do not ask for information , They give information , Its the old joke durden . What dose a women want ? To be right.

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Anonymous December 31, 2010 at 19:34

My parents got divorced but my dad was never round when they were together, so I’m not sure if it had have helped much. My mom was a nervous, low self esteem sort, very caring but not exactly strong so naturally that went to me and i became a neurotic & depressed mess early on. Some women coccoon their children and its so unhealthy, it needs to be seen for what it is. I was the boy anorexic at 14 on SSRIs. I mean,i was always around girls: school,, hospital, home- I became like them. Its the only thing I knew. The insane arbitrariness of feminine emotions taken up by men voluntarily- thats a wrecker of empires right there.I made several abortive attempts to leave home when it became clear just how pathetic my situation was then she died of cancer and im living on disability now because I cant take care of myself, being mentally weird. I try to see more of my dad and uncle and hope whatever they have rubs off or whatever, but i somehow think that whatevers vital thats missing can’t be picked up like riding a stupid bike. I can’t even get off these nightmare happy pills that give you heroin withdrawal

I never wanted to be alive at this age,I wanted to be dead by now because I knew even as a kid something was wrong with me and that I wouldnt be a normal adult, i just couldnt articulate what was wrong. Its a woman’s world in suburbia, no ones there to give you the harsh truths you need to become upright. Its all surface superficialty & indecesivness. You’re missing half the puzzle, incomplete inside.

Its shameful. I’m ashamed of myself because I’m omega, lowest of the low- thats me. And I’m glad i can finally call it, too.At least thats honesty. More honesty would also be saying how much i hate women too, right or wrongly. Its just fact. That ugly cliche of the momma’s boy woman hater is true for a reason. We mass produce them, the sullen, beaten down- looking young guys trailing behind cell phone yapping power grrrls out in public-not a majority but definately enough

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Anonymous December 31, 2010 at 19:38

not a majority yet*

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Robert in Arabia January 1, 2011 at 01:37

If you are not the John Wayne character in The Quiet Man, don’t think of marriage.
I wasn’t and I badly damaged two women and one son.

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Robert in Arabia January 1, 2011 at 01:40

The rabbinic legal authorities of Orthodox Judaism decreed that the worship of Jesus Christ constitutes idol worship (avodah zarah).
—Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Avodat Kochavim 9:4. Teshuvos Pri ha-Sadeh 2:4. Igros Moshe, Y.D. 3:129-6

Idol worshippers are liable to the death penalty under the Talmudic “Noachide Laws.”
—Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 57a

Rabbinic authorities decreed that a building set aside for actual (rather than feigned) worship of Jesus Christ is a house of avodah zarah.
—Yayin Malchus, 234-237. Minchas Elazar 1:53-3. Yechaveh Da’as 4:45. Darchei Teshuvah 150:2. Tzitz Eliezer 14:91

Therefore, when passing a church, Orthodox Jews utter a curse upon it as follows: “Beis gee’im visach Hashem.”
—Birkath ha-Minim, 12th Amidah. BT Berakhot 58b

Since Moslems are not seen as idol worshippers, mosques are not frowned upon.

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J. Durden January 1, 2011 at 01:44

Anonymous -

Call me crazy, but I subscribe to a world view where one’s sexual attractiveness or success rate is of little consequence. Celibacy ain’t discussed much ’round these parts, and I haven’t finished articulating them all, but there are many reasons why I am a celibate. Making celibacy a conscious decision rather than a lamentable state has done great things for my productivity.

J. Durden January 1, 2011 at 01:46

I know Game bloggers and so on define the Alpha/Beta/Omega hierarchy as a purely sexual thing (Alphas getting the most sex and so on and so forth) but I don’t know if I agree with that either. I’ve had Staff NCOs with 10 years experience in the infantry tell me they’d follow me into combat and I’ve never had a day of combat leadership training in my life – they were simply expressing their confidence in my character. Where’s that fall on the Alpha/Beta/Omega hierarchy? ;)

Migu January 1, 2011 at 08:42

4. PTSD can sometimes be cured, and rapidly. I realize no one is going to believe this, but in the 90?s, a man named Gary Craig came up with a system called EFT. He resigned this last year due to health issues.

I’ll vouch for it being able to be cured quickly.

I kept one thing with me that brought me back. One thing I knew I did not have while at war. At the time it was a bottle of “Crown Royal” (The best we could get in the Warzone was Beefeaters gin.)

After about two months, I had acquired so many other things that did not exist while I was in the sandbox it was easy to bring myself around.

I woke up a few a times in the middle of the night donned my armor, boots, LBV, and Assault Pack, only to find myself searching frantically for my weapon (M-249 SAW) What I found was a bottle of Crown where it should have been. When I saw that bottle I knew where I was. This happened about 30 times.

Each time I saw something else that shook me out of it quicker than that bottle. A stero, a playstation, a gamecube, an xbox, a TV or any number of things that were not present while I was deployed.

This worked for my friends too. Pick one item that you know was never present in the war zone, and put it where your weapon should be. Key your mind to know that if you see that bottle of crown you are home, not deployed, then pick other items so you don’t become an alcoholic.

I believe each soldier should also take himself as he is and lock him away with a key only he retains until the war is over. Remember that key, and when home safe use it to unlock that door, and keep that bottle of crown handy to greet what comes out of it.

PTSD is no joke, but it need not be debilitating.

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Satyajit Roy January 1, 2011 at 10:54

Anonymous, I’m so sorry to hear about what you are going through.

I believe it is the duty of both parents to guide their children into strength, boldness and independence.

I’m from India and we what is called a “joint family system”. Boys never leave home. We are expected to bring our wives home to live in the house of our parents when we marry, and our parents choose our wives for us as well.

If a family has 3 sons and 2 daughters, the 2 daughters will move out upon marriage and go live with her in-laws while the 3 sons will stay home forever, bringing their wives to live with their parents.

I think this is one of the reasons why India is “stuck”. Indians nurse dreams of becoming a “Super Power” but when you have a nation of grown adult men who are living with their parents for their whole lives and allowing their parents to make decisions for them, never being allowed to break out on their own into the world as a man – what else can that nation be but “stuck”?

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Loki January 1, 2011 at 13:50

To: Anonymous, December 31, 2010 at 19:34

“I’m ashamed of myself because I’m omega, lowest of the low – that’s me.”

No, you are not!

And I am certain of that, because you wrote your comment, and wrote it here.

I will not pretend that I can heal you through a blog, but I will offer two suggestions: 1) Check Your Assumptions.

Checking your assumptions is the vital point that the great Ayn Rand repeated more than any other.

Almost everything that you think you know, about the world and about your limitations, is bullshit.

So, pick your two greatest obstacles, and try to prove that they are TRUE, that they are actually insurmountable obstacles, and that they even really exist.

And I don’t mean for you to replay the same old recordings that some asshole stuffed into your head a long time ago.

I mean for you to search for, and explore, ALL of the available information, and to not stop until you have moved beyond those impediments, or until there is no more information to be found.

“I try to see more of my dad and uncle and hope whatever they have rubs off or whatever, but I somehow think that whatever’s vital that’s missing can’t be picked up like riding a stupid bike.”

Vital for what, exactly?

If you read this site, you will see that most of those “vital” things that men were supposed to do or be are just self-serving crapola spread by those who would benefit from your efforts.

Suggestion 2: Narrow Your Focus.

If you could change one thing, Out There, that could be changed by one man, what would it be?

And notice that I said “out there,” and not within yourself.

As you work toward something bigger than you, you will discover that you have also been improving yourself, as required by your quest, naturally and without even having to think about it. Fixing yourself is easy, when it is not your goal.

And notice that anything that claims that belief, without evidence or even in spite of evidence, is a virtue, cannot possibly be “bigger than you.” It is just another part of your current mess.

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crella January 3, 2011 at 01:40

I get voted down for being sorry that Peter’s mother has dementia? I don’t understand this site at times. AD is a horrible thing, and I am sorry from the bottom of my heart that he is losing his mother to this awful disease, despite whether I agree with him on many issues or not. My grandmother had it in the 80s and it was heartbreaking, and now both of my in-laws. It’s awful to watch your loved ones fade away.

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