Even for women, divorce is not all it’s cracked up to be

by W.F. Price on November 22, 2010

Although here on The Spearhead we often dwell on the injustices heaped on men and the incentives and benefits women can receive from betraying and abandoning husbands, one thing that ought to be pointed out is that in many – perhaps most – cases divorce is actually a stupid move on the part of a woman. Legions of women divorce their husbands and find themselves harried, working harder, poorer and either alone or with a man who doesn’t live up to her initial expectations.

Certainly, there are some cases where divorce is clearly to a woman’s advantage, such as a homemaker married to a wealthy man who is having an involved affair with another woman and on the brink of leaving his wife. But that’s a small minority. Another case could be a woman married to a man hurtling toward self-destruction with a severe alcohol or drug problem, which may be more common. As for the matter of physically abusive husbands, they do exist, but in most of these cases the wife has plenty of problems herself that likely won’t be entirely solved by divorce.

Usually, the woman is simply leaving her husband on impulse, as often as not out of sexual urges compelling her to seek out a new mate when her mating cycle renews (every four or five years, it seems), and sometimes simply for a power trip. It isn’t usually a rational decision, but rationalization has a way of occurring after the fact, so that’s no matter. But objectively speaking, their lives are usually worse after they take the plunge and wreck their families.

Growing up in the 1980s, during the divorce rampage that swept the US starting in the 1970s, I knew a lot of kids whose mothers made these poor choices. Perhaps they were disappointed with their husbands for not growing up fast enough, or maybe they felt the thrill of women’s lib and wanted to go to war against the men they had married to advance the cause of feminism. Because we were kids at the time, we had no way of understanding why these women did what they did, but we saw how they lived. The typical pattern was ejection of the husband, followed by relationships with other men, sometimes a succession of them, and then a slow, downward slide into the typical aging, middle-class single mother.

One thing I saw happen over and over was the gradual transformation of the children’s fathers from their initial down-and-out state following the divorce to respectable, stable adult men. Some remarried and some didn’t, but most of them gradually improved their station in life as their children became adults. Of course, some never recovered, and fell away from society for one reason or another, but that wasn’t the norm. Most of the women, on the other hand, just got stuck in a rut. They were dependent on court-ordered payments from their ex-husbands for expenses, and when those dried up as the kids graduated, they were left relatively poor and unable to attract a new boyfriend.

The kids were a mixed bag. They all faced problems, but some of them did alright eventually, particularly those whose fathers stayed around and took an interest in their lives. The odd thing is, though, that initially many of us had an impression that there must have been something wrong with these kids’ fathers for having been left by their wives. However, around the time we were high school, as the kids’ fathers came into their own and began to establish themselves, I started looking at a lot of these single mothers’ life choices with some incredulity. Here was one whose ex-husband became a high-ranking Navy officer. And there another whose ex-husband got a job as head engineer at a local sporting goods factory. Another became assistant chief of police, and one is even serving in Obama’s cabinet. And I knew that these men hadn’t divorced while successful — I’d seen the guys struggling when I was a child.

As I grow older the differences are becoming even clearer. The women who stayed with their husbands are typically happier and wealthier than those who didn’t. Even women whose husbands were never particularly successful financially are much better off than your typical working-class divorcée. Those who have middle and upper-middle class husbands are living the American dream. But the mothers who never found a suitable replacement, or married and divorced a second time, are facing late retirement and poverty in old age. And men my age, who saw what they did first-hand, tend not to have a great deal of respect for them.

Interestingly, feminists do not seem concerned at all about these aging women who made terrible choices while young. One might think they are avoiding the subject because it shows feminism for the dumb idea it is for most women, but that probably isn’t it. Feminists could easily take a subject like that and frame it in a way to make men look bad, or use it to come up with some excuse for taxing men even more, but there’s another reason they don’t pay attention: feminism is, above all, concerned with the exercise of female sexuality and maximizing the power it confers. These washed up older women simply don’t have anything to offer in that regard.

I suppose one could look at the legions of young women who make stupid choices offered by feminists as akin to the common footsoldiers in a war. Most of them never get anything out of it but some temporary glory – if that – and many are left permanently damaged. It is only the politicians, the ‘generals’ so to speak, who really make a killing off of their sacrifice. The Gloria Steinems, Gloria Allreds, Joe Bidens and other such characters who pushed so hard to foist this culture of divorce and family destruction on America now stand tall on the wreckage of millions of American families, offering nothing but a bleak future for the women who put their pet policies into action. But perhaps this is how it always has been with humanity: the greatest earthly glory goes to those who have wrought the greatest carnage.

{ 171 comments… read them below or add one }

Richard November 22, 2010 at 13:47

Its real simple:

You make laws that allow women to be irresponsible, a greater portion of them will be irresponsible. When that happens, they turn into sh*t.

I have met way too many women who have made complete train-wrecks out of their lives, and tried (and often succeeded) at pulling as many men down with them along the way (usually out of imagined spite – based on fictional musings of oppressions past).

The kids they have:

I sincerely feel sorry for them – especially the boys. Single moms these days are so out of touch with “maleness” that pretty much every boy is labeled as having ADHD – mom gives her own sons pills to counteract the “maleness” rather than deal with it. I’d guesstimate about 60% of the male children I have met have been labeled with ADHD.

I met well over 60 women from 2005-2008. It was part of a “study” I was doing. I could ramble on for a long while about how self-destructive modern women have become, but I’ll save that for my blog. Wait for it.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 94 Thumb down 1
Ubermind November 22, 2010 at 14:14

God/Nature is smarter and more moral than people usually think, there is a natural mehanism of punishment for every evil deed even if not always visible. I am not speaking about afterlife or something like that, but real reaping of fruits you sew in this very life. Bitches die alone and undesired. Empires have a self-destruct switch in 250 years once they get too lazy and fat. When a dictator dies nobody handles the last cup of water for him and influent criminals get shot by rivals.

I do not belive in afterlife but when I read Bible in Game-evopsych context I see a practical application for morals. No wonder morals get low when people forget about their true nature.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 3
Migu November 22, 2010 at 14:17

Beautiful.

Have you ever had any luck getting a 25 yr old woman to see it though? The best I hear from them is “I’m looking for a good first husband”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 54 Thumb down 4
ZenCo. November 22, 2010 at 14:20

Don’t forget lawyers. They’re the ones who REALLY make a killing off of the misery of divorce.
To all of the younger guys out there: Just wait till you hit 40 and are single.
You’ll still have your looks, etc. and be able to bag as many decent looking women as you can handle. It’s called karma ladies and it’s a bitch.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 90 Thumb down 3
Beltain November 22, 2010 at 14:37

A number of them faded away yes. Yet after they wreaked their damage on the institution of marriage the feminist went after the good jobs and the lions share of the entitlement pie. So now the new feminist can have their cake, eat it and still be financially secure in their old age as they take over middle management and aim for the jobs those left husband from the 70′s got.

They will make damned sure the divorced husbands of the 90′s and 00′s don’t have that way up so the new feminist will not suffer the same as the old has beens. They never stop preying on men’s wealth, opportunities or dreams.

The karma being dished out to the original feminist of the 60′s and 70′s is sweet but we must protect our sons from suffering a worse fate than we did.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 65 Thumb down 2
TFH November 22, 2010 at 14:47

Everything about the divorce industry shows that :

i) It is designed to increase lawyer revenues, by increasing divorces.
ii) Women get tempted into short-term gains without seeing long-term costs to themselves (since women don’t grasp cause and effect very well).
iii) At this point, feminists are fighting to get X benefit for women in return for 4X cost to society. Feminism is a bigger reason for outsourcing of jobs than anything else, since India and China do not require businesses to waste tons of money on feminism, and hence are more cost-efficient places to keep employees at.
iv) Alimony ends after an ex-husband dies. So the woman will spend the last 10 years of her life in poverty, while the woman who stayed with her husband till the end will at least inherit the savings.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 57 Thumb down 7
Paradoxotaur November 22, 2010 at 14:54

“one thing that ought to be pointed out is that in many – perhaps most – cases divorce is actually a stupid move on the part of a woman.”

Arguably less stupid than a man getting married in the first place, considering today’s legal and social climate.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 60 Thumb down 2
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 14:54

I don’t know Price. How do we measure such a thing?

Did women come out OK from divorce?

I suppose one way is to ask women if they regret divorcing.

I have never ever met a woman that regretted divorcing. I met many men who regretted it.

That’s your answer right there. Women don’t regret getting divorced.

Think about it. Woman 100 years ago relied on one man who actually had some control over here life.

Today, woman can stay home, do nothing, answer to no one.

We on Spearhead think woman are less well off without us. I think we don’t understand what women really want.

Woman were happy in huts in the savanahh and are happy with cubicles in the city. As long as they can fu_) those jina tingling bad boys or watch chick porn and fantasize about it.

But don’t ever underestimate a womans capability for self delusion. They all think they did great and life couldn’t be any better.

Even the women that come here love their feminist life and only come here to laugh at our inability to get them to STFU on a site dedicated to men.

Men’s reddit is a joke with more feminists voting things up and down than men.

I think women find the MRM very amusing. They know we are as I think Zed said, one BJ away from committment.

So, don’t expect me to cry for all those divorced women. Their too busy laughing at us.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 82 Thumb down 16
ElectricAngel November 22, 2010 at 14:58

Y’know, it was Globalman last year who mentioned that feminism was SO detrimental to women that they could not have come up with it on their own. I’ve come around to that position. The net effects of feminism have been to drive the birthrate much lower, something sought by the Rockefellers, et al.

I do not believe, contra Welmer, that it was about young women being free to be sluts, but instead that it sought to get them to do ANYTHING with their 20s other than have children. It has succeeded spectacularly.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 50 Thumb down 4
garryw November 22, 2010 at 14:59

I’ve only been divorced 9 months, but I predict my ex will fall into the scenario of “what have I done?”.

Sure she’s raking in the alimony today, but due to the short length of our marriage, she will lose it soon and find herself sleeping under a bridge. Meanwhile she will find it hard to replace a loving husband with a large income who also happens to be the biological father of all her children.

On the flipside I now have experience dating single mothers and to be honest the kids are a huge negative. Why do I want to raise another man’s offspring? That’s never been my life plan.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 109 Thumb down 4
K.K. November 22, 2010 at 15:07

A related issue is the social Deification of the divorced single mother, virtually unassailable as she’s such a martyr for ‘struggling’ to ‘raise HER kids’. Naturally, my heart goes out to those women that escaped brutal tyrants and rescued their children from Hell.

However, that describes ONE out of the 50-odd single mother’s I’ve dated over the last decade. For the other 49, it was “Oh, it just didn’t work out.”
So, they’re struggling now, obviously. Chafing at the bit for another man to play Stepfather. Realizing that they might be able to protect or provide for the children she separated from their father, but not necessarily ‘raise’ them. Children in Day Care for any stretch of time always wind up worse off socially.

One thing that women would do well to remember: Although Adultery IS grounds for divorce, it’s not a MANDATE for it. You might successfully leave a cheater, but is an 18-year ‘struggle’ through poverty worth it

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 3
Lavazza November 22, 2010 at 15:10

garryw: I do not get it. Do your have children and who’s got custody?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
W.F. Price November 22, 2010 at 15:13

I suppose one way is to ask women if they regret divorcing.

I have never ever met a woman that regretted divorcing. I met many men who regretted it.

That’s your answer right there. Women don’t regret getting divorced.

-SingleDad

Well, that may be true, but how often do you hear a woman express regret for anything?

I don’t know whether it’s cultural or innate, but American women simply don’t apologize or express regret unless it’s necessary for social reasons. Have you ever seen a woman who committed a crime do anything but try to justify what she did, only apologizing when it might help reduce her sentence? Have you ever heard of a woman apologizing to her children for her failures as a mother? That’s probably the most telling thing right there. Lots of men feel a great deal of guilt over their failures as a parent, and they usually express that at some point. Women just don’t do that, and they have plenty of their own shortcomings as parents.

garryw November 22, 2010 at 15:19

Response to Lavazza – she has 85% custody. But child support alone will not take care of her. She does not work or ever intend to work. So she is living off alimony, which will end, placing her under a bridge, with my kids.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 0
W.F. Price November 22, 2010 at 15:24

Response to Lavazza – she has 85% custody. But child support alone will not take care of her. She does not work or ever intend to work. So she is living off alimony, which will end, placing her under a bridge, with my kids.

-garryw

If she goes on welfare the state will come after you.

WOW November 22, 2010 at 15:39

garry…single mothers are for f*cking, not dating.

Just pretend you are listening, get some ass…then go home.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 53 Thumb down 6
Lavazza November 22, 2010 at 15:41

Welmer: I get the impression that the shame of being wrong often hinders people from admitting it and learning from the mistake. No shame combined with a great willingness to analyze and learn from mistakes would be the best combination. Easier said than done, though. On average men seem to learn more from their mistakes. Maybe they are risking more and therefore paying more attention.

I read somewhere that few people are good at telling if somebody is lying or not. On average a coin toss will be as accurate. Two exception: Secret Service and hardened criminals, who get direct and punishing feedback when they are wrong.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 16:01

We on Spearhead think woman are less well off without us. I think we don’t understand what women really want.

Woman were happy in huts in the savanahh and are happy with cubicles in the city. As long as they can fu_) those jina tingling bad boys or watch chick porn and fantasize about it.

But don’t ever underestimate a womans capability for self delusion. They all think they did great and life couldn’t be any better.

Interesting food for thought, SingleDad. Whiskey has often stated the same.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 2
Lara November 22, 2010 at 16:05

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 120
Lara November 22, 2010 at 16:07

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 102
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 16:13

I’d say women’s innate resistance to taking responsibility for their actions is due to

a) their great fear of social rejection (them being fundamentally social creatures who follow the herd)

b) their innate unwillingness to make decisions in the first place, which is probably in their genes (i.e. they haven’t evolved to be decision-makers since they want men to lead and decide).

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 44 Thumb down 0
greyghost November 22, 2010 at 16:16

Men do after a divorce slowly get it together. I went through one and went from almost living out of a truck of a car to a large house in 2 years. I didn’t date or even look at women for 4 years. I did meet a guy that had a wife that had a couple of divorced friends. They were the most useless women I have ever met. they were real “cocky” having the kids to draw money and aggravation from their ex. But man they were sorry.
Women really start to pay for a divorce when they stop getting CS and are too old to get another chump.Before that the price is paid by the ex husband and the children. They are the ones paying for womens liberation.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 57 Thumb down 3
ragnar November 22, 2010 at 16:20

SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 14:54
Woman were happy in huts in the savanahh and are happy with cubicles in the city. As long as they can fu_) those jina tingling bad boys or watch chick porn and fantasize about it.

Spot on SingleDad.
Women don’t care for civilisation only men do!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 4
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 16:25

@ Price

I don’t know about that. I hear most women say they regret, made serious mistakes and will never make them again when they are talking about the men in their lives.

They express regret over a job they took that they don’t like and are capable or regreting a neighborhood they moved into.

They just don’t regret getting divorced.

Maybe it’s us that have the blinders on here. Women don’t like being married. Maybe if you listen to what women say, you can learn about them.

What they say they want is choice. They are happy eating cat food from a can in a tenement in Newark or drinking dirty water in a hut in Haiti but would never, ever, consider moving back with that a–hole, their ex-husband.

Maybe this is why they didn’t invent civilization. They don’t care. They just don’t want anyone telling them what to do, choice.

Now I don’t know any women that wouldn’t get married to a total a–hole for enough money.

But even those get old a few years down the road. Paul McCartney must be a pretty cool guy to hang with but a one legged gimp couldn’t put up with not being able to screw around for all his money, power and position.

Princess Diana was a total slut who f–ed all the security guards that came near her.

What can you give a woman that will make her happy……nothing, nothing is what they want. They want to be left alone.

If that was not the case there would be a branch of the AARP that was challenging NOW on all it’s issues.

There is not and never will be.

Women hate men and hate living with men and probably always have.

It’s a tough pill for most men to swallow. But until they do they will continue to get ass raped by cupcake and her lackies.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 51 Thumb down 12
Herbal Essence November 22, 2010 at 16:27

Woman says: “Divorce seemed like a good idea at the time but I’m still miserable. At least I can keep blaming some man for it.”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 1
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 16:30

LOL at everyone automatically voting down Lara’s comments.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 41 Thumb down 40
UncleFester November 22, 2010 at 16:33

Dear W.F. Price

With all due respect (and much respect is warranted), I disagree with your portrayal of women in this article. The perception of woman as “leaving her husband on impulse, as often as not out of sexual urges” and “isn’t usually a rational decision”, is exactly the kind of thinking that our forefarthers employed to get us in this situation in the first place. Back then, terms like “hysteria” and “being ruled by emotions”, were used to excuse female behavior.
I remember a TV-documentary about the local Coroners Office. The Coroner speculated that only 1 in 10 murders by poisoning were ever discovered, let alone solved. This happens because unless there is reason to suspect foul play, the Coroner will simply not order the battery of tests needed to detect poisoning. The forensics examiners already have plenty to do with the corpses that bear visual evidence of trauma. Poisoning, especially slow poisoning, can be very hard / imposibble to prove, and Gullible Grant is buried with an explanation like genetic time-bomb embolism or stress-induced coronary. And the poor, sweet Mrs. gets double of half and the life-insurance.
In my country a woman will only have to co-habitate with a man for 2 years in order for her to move to first place in the inheritance line (absent a Testament).
We are in the middle of a gender-war. Men are dying by the millions, from dangerous jobs to divorce-induced suicide, from white-knighting to the wife’s tasty tomato soup.
Women can be every bit as “cold” as men, and quite a bit more calculating and manipulative. I submit that excusing the enemy is no longer an option.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 70 Thumb down 7
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 16:39

At Hollenhund,

Women make decisions just fine. They just lie to men so they could use the bad out come against men if it is to their benefit.

And woman are notorious for not caring what anybody thinks of their decisions. Some of the greatest works of literature were spawned: Romeo and Juliet…..and so on.

No I believe women very much know exactly what they are doing.

It’s the men who believe what women tell them, at the time, that are unable to cope with the fact that women are just not naturally attracted to men.

They think we’re big, oafish, smelly, loud, drunk, boring, lazy brutes, just waiting to rape them or kill them.

How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb.

Answer: 1

One to hold the light bulb and then the world revolves around her.

Call it plausable denieability.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 8
greyghost November 22, 2010 at 16:42

LOL at everyone automatically voting down Lara’s comments.

Well damn man,check out this winner below.

I think you guys on here think marriage is always really easy and enjoyable for us, but it isn’t. Men get irritating after a while.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 53 Thumb down 2
Herbal Essence November 22, 2010 at 16:52

“I think you guys on here think marriage is always really easy and enjoyable for us, but it isn’t. Men get irritating after a while.”

I don’t think anyone is claiming men, or marriage, is always a bowl of peaches. At least, I’m not claiming that. What we’re saying is that women have a cheerleading squad pushing them to open the escape hatch, and financial incentive to be as awful as possible to her husband. Men have neither of those advantages when it comes to marriage and divorce. Plus, women have big privilege in the eyes of the courts when it comes to custody issues, accused domestic violence, etc.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 54 Thumb down 2
D November 22, 2010 at 16:53

I think I’m w/SingleDad’s remarks of struggling with the measuring of it all.

Basically everything Bill writes here is true. Basically divorce is just a bad idea. Throughout my marriage I constantly wondered if anything could possibly occur that would get through to her to make her understand that “what is going on now, does not go one forever”, good or bad. All decisions seemed to be based on the moment, period. I still can’t completely figure out how much or little I can generalize this incredible inability of hers to realize that everything is changing to women in general, I just don’t know.

But it does seem safe to guess that women divorcing, as apart from women as a whole, are probably in this mentality–not seeing things as changing but as basically going on forever, as they are. Plus, they probably don’t also see their own role in creating their situation-somehow their man has failed them, it couldn’t possibly be their own internal state of unhappiness. They are unhappy, ergo, man must be failing at his job.

And then life goes on. Divorce happens, man recovers, moves on, keeps working, grows in stature and wealth, and is on balance, ok, probably better off w/o her. She may get some support, but over the long-haul, it’s peanuts, or it expires, and all she’s left with is her own miserable self.

Now, that sucks. I realize she made a decision that resulting in her own misery, or the aggravation of misery that was already there, or the creation of new levels of misery that could not have been possible without divorcing. But so what? She didn’t want to be married, now she’s not – what are we to do about it?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 9
W.F. Price November 22, 2010 at 16:59

@Fester, Single Dad

Sure, I think women are rational actors in their own interest at least to the same extent men are. But men do a lot of irrational things, too. That’s why I brought up the war analogy. Men go to war despite the fact that it isn’t a net benefit on the balance for your average guy. Women’s version of “going to war” is diving headlong into sexual anarchy. Honestly, I think rape in warfare is often overblown, and actually falsely reported in many cases because the women so often have an overwhelming compulsion to immediately have sex with the invader (recent literature from France indicate that French women were all too willing to drop their pants for German soldiers after France was vanquished by the Nazis).

I remember reading a Chinese woman’s account of Russians invading Manchuria, and how excited she and the local girls were about the newcomers. They were only disappointed because, instead of big, strong, bearded men riding steeds, most of the Russians they saw were skinny, beardless teenage boys with uniforms and rifles that looked too big for them — hardly sufficient for a good ravaging.

Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 17:01

greyghost,

she just did what most of us demand women to do: bluntly express what they really think instead of peddling the usual BS and rationalization.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 13
Traveller November 22, 2010 at 17:03

Very well… another soft article on the line of “we push girls to do bad things”?

Just after the article where a woman got after 10 years a part of a winning lottery prize? I smile at all those depicted struggling women.

I just believe there are some, but for sure not even close in number or real struggle as the dramatic tone of the article wants suggest. Like the broken nail of female soldiers, they get all the media room but dead men are inexistent in the news.

And anyway, if there are any problem for any female, let us expect the big government just choke us on more taxes. That is such simple.

I do not believe any woman could have a difficult moment today, not the same level of difficulty a man can experience. No tears from me for any slutty divorcee.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 8
LaughOrCry November 22, 2010 at 17:07

OT: Some of you may be aware of another mining disaster, this time in my country: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/23/3073725.htm?site=sydney

29 *men* (well, one of them is 17 years old) and zero women, trapped in a coal mine after an explosion. No word yet on their condition, however there is speculation that they may have been incinerated in the explosion.

Now, if I ever hear another woman whining about the “wage gap”, so help me…

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 57 Thumb down 2
3DShooter November 22, 2010 at 17:08

I tend to view the ‘divorce’ phenomena as a confluence of two primary factors: 1) women in general have a shorter time reference for expectations – they want it all today rather than make sacrifices now for a better future and 2) a predatory legal environment where family law practitioners dangle the perceived benefits in front of them (the kids, the house, the family assets, child support, alimony) as an enticement.

Now I acknowledge that my perception is based largely on my own experience, but I’ve read enough stories of other men to know my experience is not one of isolation.

It is similar to sending an eighteen year-old boy to a car lot with enough for a down payment – they are going to get taken for a whole lot more than they can afford just because they lack the experience and knowledge to have an extended time preference for satisfying their wants. Women are very much like this by nature – maybe it is because their value (looks, sexual appeal) are a rapidly diminishing quantity. In the end they satisfy the short term desire for the longer term security.

In the end though, I’d place the lion’s share of the blame on the predatory legal establishment that capitalizes on this. Family law attorney’s are worse than pedophiles in my mind. Their business is family destruction not family stability. It is a multi-billion dollar a year business and like any big business they will capitalize on the less capable in society to line their pockets. And yes, in my opinion, all lawyers are like that – they are the dregs of humanity.

From that I have developed what I believe would significantly reduce these circumstances – if one acknowledges a government power to rule on interpersonal relationships (I don’t, and I don’t have any faith that it can or will be reformed):
1) Default 50/50 shared parenting – other arrangements allowed if both parties can amicably work things out.
2) Abolishing child support and alimony – on-going financial entanglements breed resentment, frustration and anger.
3) Asset division based on each parties financial contribution to the family – SAHM is a liability and if she earns 0% she gets 0%.
4) A cap on attorney fees in domestic cases (with the preceding, attorneys wouldn’t be needed to any great extent)

Adopting such changes would be both fair and just – but it would no longer be a profit center for predatory attorneys preying on emotion driven, short-term thinking women.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 5
Lara November 22, 2010 at 17:13

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 92
aspanishguy November 22, 2010 at 17:13

“All decisions seemed to be based on the moment, period”
Women are creatures of the present. This is why they are unable to understand cause and consequence.

“Plus, they probably don’t also see their own role in creating their situation-somehow their man has failed them, ”

Women are unable to accept responsibility. This needs a level of introspection they simply don’t have.

Most women are children. They are not evil, although they are able to do the most evil things in the world. They are only spoiled, self-absorbed narcissistic brats, unable to see beyond their navel.

Roman people were onto something when they considered them “legal minors”, subjected to the authority of a grown-up, that is, their father or husband. This is the arrangement women are happier and men are too. And this is the only way a society can work.

I am Christian but I think the greatest mistake of Christianity was to put women at the same level than men (even if they were subjected to the authority of the male). This was a time bomb that exploded two thousands years afterwards by means of female suffrage. Now, the children are ruling the house and everybody is miserable- even the children.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 57 Thumb down 2
Beltain November 22, 2010 at 17:14

UncleFester has a point:

Women can be every bit as “cold” as men, and quite a bit more calculating and manipulative. I submit that excusing the enemy is no longer an option.

I would suggest they can and are alot colder.

If you look back at the survival characteristics for men and women they are very different. Being able to conceal your true feelings and completely “divorce” yourself from a slain husband would have been an asset to many an ancient female. Much more so than men. Also the inner practice of removing yourself emotionally would be a naturally dominant trait in women to the point of breeding sociopaths.

Personally I have never seen a man able to just completely remove someone from his emotions as well as a female.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 39 Thumb down 1
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 17:14

Well, Price, I’ve made it clear about my theory about the sexual selection of females.

They want to have the winner, just like all the other animals. Males fight, the vanquished leaves and the women help the new male kill the cubs from the old male and start making nice to him.

They don’t get to pick who fights and don’t get to pick the winner. Fat, old, whatever, as long as you win, you get the females.

If their lucky they can eat the scraps from the kill the females brought down.

What would a lioness do if a new young studly male stolled in, looking great, but bowing to the dominant male. They would shun him.

Having cubs with him would spell doom for the female in the social group, the pride (interesting choice of words) and they would reject her and she would be seen as slumming it. The dominant male would probably kick her out or kill her. Her offspring would be suspect and killed.

Maybe this similar mating strategy is why women hate with the blinding heat of a supernova, her ex-mate.

There is no logical reason for the out right hatred most women have for their ex’s.

My ex and I had a good relationship till she met her next man.

Then I got the old lion treatment. She even told the Judge she was trying to give our son what he always needed: A family.

Now we had been sharing custody for 10 years, he had a family and was very happy.

Furthermore, her new husband was only in town 1 weekend per month. But in my ex’s delusional mind, this was the family she had in her head. Her mistake was to write it down in a place where I would be responding, an Order to Show Cause.

But, I believe that’s how she really felt. Out with the old, in with the new, and this one is the one, don’t cha know.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 4
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 17:17

Women are never making decisions in the moment and always think about the future.

They just don’t tell their men what their thinking.

My ex planned her moves 2 months in advance. I have proof. She then pretended like nothing was happening. I didn’t find out till I got home from work to find and empty house.

I know 4 guys with the exact same story.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 45 Thumb down 3
Lara November 22, 2010 at 17:19

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 107
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 17:24

I gave you a thumbs up, Lara, for revealing what you really are.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 8
Lara November 22, 2010 at 17:26

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 88
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 17:28

Peddling BS is exactly the thing I do NOT want you or any other woman to do, Lara.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 14
aspanishguy November 22, 2010 at 17:30

My ex planned her moves 2 months in advance.

Men, when they plan their life, they are thinking years ahead. Women are unable of that. If they are unhappy now, they can foul their own nest. This is why I meant.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 2
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 17:32

@ Hollenhund

Then you don’t believe what I have written. BS is the only thing they have to peddle, and your being taken for a ride right now.

Enjoy it. At least it won’t result in loss of your children, happiness or health. But in real life, be more careful.

Us older guys can tell you younger guys but most won’t believe us till you have that A-ha moment. I hope it doesn’t cost you too much.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 4
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 17:33

Never underestimate women. It is the crux of mens problems today.

IMO

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 45 Thumb down 4
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 17:40

SingleDad,

sometimes women speak with uncharacteristic honesty. When they do so, it’s easy to notice because they almost always reveal something pathetic or revolting – the complete opposite of what they say about their preferences in public.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 5
aspanishguy November 22, 2010 at 17:41

Women could do nothing without men. The only ability where women excel at is manipulating men to do their bidding. Female suffrage was approved by men. Divorce laws were approved by men. Most judges and policemen are men.

Women are not to be underestimated, but they are remarkably dumb, shallow and inmature. Look at the media they prefer: female magazines, Oprah..

But, yes they are good at manipulating men. This is more due to our weaknesses than to their strengths. Men have pedestalization written in their genes and there are men that are able to do anything for sex or the emotional support women give. Men believe women’s lies, even if these lies are not that hard to spot. It is not that most women are brilliant, it is that men, when it comes to women, are dumb and unable to learn from experience.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 60 Thumb down 3
greyghost November 22, 2010 at 17:41

Höllenhund
This here is classic

Women can be loyal, but it is easier to be loyal to a winner versus a loser.

Analogy
A man told his true love, “As long as no other woman makes my dick hard I I will always be ther for you baby. Now you know I love you”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 52 Thumb down 1
Gx1080 November 22, 2010 at 17:53

My children will always be my children, but men can come and go. It isn’t in a woman’s best interest to be too loyal to any one man.

There you have it fellas. Although you are wrong. If he’s putting up the money and stays in their lives, the children are his. I don’t think that children belong to a woman just because they came out of her vagina. “Oh, but my sexual value plummeted when I was pregnant and it will never be the same”. Your sexual value is at a constant decrease. Get fucking over it.

And yes, is ALL about her sexual value. That’s her main tool to extract resources from a man (his money, his time, his genes) since that, deep down, she knows that she will never be as good as a man in hard work AND she believes herself that it’s beneath it. The inferior men work, but the super special princess doesn’t.

PS: Fuck you cunt.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 72 Thumb down 1
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 17:55

“PS: Fuck you cunt.”

Co-signed. Well, at least she’s honest – on the Internet and anonymously, that is.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 3
W.F. Price November 22, 2010 at 18:07

Women can be loyal, but it is easier to be loyal to a winner versus a loser.

-Lara

Well, you might think so, but how does that explain the fact that women have always had such a powerful lust for enemy POWs — even when they are clearly the losers?

Lara, women’s sexuality is just as anarchic as men’s. It doesn’t make any more sense. It’s a “selfish gene” thing. We humans only have so much control over ourselves. Personally, I think men have a little more control, but only just an inch, and only some men. But it is that single inch and those few men that have dragged the rest of us out of savagery. Take that away and things fall apart. That’s what is happening today.

novaseeker November 22, 2010 at 18:13

But child support alone will not take care of her. She does not work or ever intend to work. So she is living off alimony, which will end, placing her under a bridge, with my kids.

Be careful here.

In many states, in that situation, your CS will get increased substantially to cover the “family living expenses”. Of course, she will have to be “looking for a job” and so on, or at least making the required appearances to do so. But in most states they’re going to up your CS rather than see your ex and kids living under a bridge.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 18:14

“the fact that women have always had such a powerful lust for enemy POWs”

To the extent that lust existed, it was probably more due to the fact that the winner men were all on far-away battlefields, thus rendered unable to sexually service their women.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6
novaseeker November 22, 2010 at 18:15

Women never love men unconditionally.

Yes, we know. Women are incapable of this.

As the saying goes: men love women, women love children and children love puppies. That’s how it’s designed. Men love women more than women love men.

Much more, in general.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 58 Thumb down 3
SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 18:31

Damn Price really, they screw the prisoners of war too? That screws up my Lions and tigers and bears theory…..back to the drawing board, I’m an amature anthropologic gynecologist.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4
Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 18:45

SingleDad,

the most well-known historical example is German women screwing French POWs who were transported to Germany to perform forced labor during WW2. I’m sure that’s what Welmer was referring to and that it can simply be explained by the women missing their husbands and boyfriends.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6
aspanishguy November 22, 2010 at 18:56

Novaseeker nailed it. Until a man doesn’t know that women’s love is conditional, he is in the dark.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 0
misterb aka misterbastard November 22, 2010 at 18:58

A few women who are divorced, never get alimony. Compared to a majority. I knew one white woman who was in a pickle. She once said that she felt oppressed. I told her that she’s not oppressed. the law and the court didn’t work in her favor. she should count her blessings. While men are still being forced to pay half of their salaries to their ex-wives.

Fortunately for her, she didn’t pay alimony, or child support. She’s lucky.

She had to deal with her disrespectful kids. And take two jobs that don’t pay much, just to stay afloat.

A majority of the divorcees would never understand the concept of hard work. They’ll just complain and complain.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 4
Mrs. w/ 1 child November 22, 2010 at 19:01

I strongly agree that divorce is NEVER all that it is cracked up to be – for anyone. Most women desire to be a Wife and Mother. Most Men want to be a Father. Research (although not politically correct) consistently shows that Fathers bring significantly more than a paycheck to the household. Intact families do better over time that broken families, even if the head of household isn’t “wealthy”.

I too saw the wreckage of broken families and was fortunate to have parents who loved each other and remained married. For the women reading (even those of you reading that don;t agree with this magazine), I have the following strategies for a traditional successful family:

1) It is old fashioned but it works: Tell your husband you love him everyday. Dress for your husband. I can look dreadful after cleaning the bathroom and chasing a toddler for a few hours but I clean both of us up before Daddy comes home. My husband and I are past our always beautiful 20′s but we both still work to keep our appearance attractive for each other.

2) Work to dismantle CPS/DCFS etc. The resources expended “helping” victims of “domestic violence” and “child abuse” is just government boondoggle. In order to keep funding these projects more and more “abused” women and children must be created. More and more “abuser” Fathers must be created. Force family courts to follow the concept of “innocent until PROVEN guilty”.

3) Do not elect representatives who identify as “feminist” or “gay friendly”. Do not support or allow anymore family unfriendly legislation. If a politician votes it in, vote him out.

4) Ladies – Stay home and raise your children. Read “The Two Income Trap” and google “ladies against feminism” to learn how to come home. You will never feel as happy or fulfilled than when you are putting all your energy and time into your family the way you used to put it into your job.

5) Send your children to a private school. Not a “charter” school still run by the government, staffed by drones who will suggest medication for all of your male children and enforce “gender equity”. The race of your child’s teacher should match the race of your child. All those granted authority over your child (by you) should be culturally compatible with your family.

6) If all of your children are in school and you have no more little ones on the way, there is no reason you can’t work part time – just make sure your employer understands you are a home keeper first. You will not make one million dollars, but you will also not loose your husband to a more attentive woman and your children to a day orphanage (daycare).

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 60 Thumb down 11
Lovekraft November 22, 2010 at 19:02

Great post, like reading my own life history. The one thing I summed up the divorce my parents went through when I was 17 was this:

Confession or Compensation. I expected this condition to be met before I could escape from the divorce misery you describe, Mr Price. Neither parent stepped up, instead bashing the other, brushing it under the rug and going on like business as usual. Of course, I said “Screw you both.”

And I don’t think children are best served when the state comes in and bullies around. Parents must either confess to their children and peers and family that they made a terrible life decision, or compensate the children for having the floor pulled out from under them. Both would be preferable.

And I can handle female contributors, but this is a respectable site for MRAs, and having a little kitten rub against our legs is ok, but only for a bit, for there’s much work to be done.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 4
Keoni Galt November 22, 2010 at 19:15

This post reminds me of a website I found via a posting by Dalrock…written by an older woman who regrets her divorce.

Interesting perspective from a woman who actually admits she made a terrible mistake…

http://frivolousdivorce.wordpress.com/

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
Robert November 22, 2010 at 19:17

OT; A hindi “Mary Winkler”.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/13/3037362.htm

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
Rebel November 22, 2010 at 19:23

I think that this thing about love is pure bull shit. Same thing for marriage, commitment and all those things.

There are two things in life that matter more than all else combined: money and sex.

Talk about love: you talk really about sex.
Talk about marriage: you really talk about money.

Men are dreamers. Romantic dreamers.
Women are pragmatic to the core, the likes of M. Spock.

We are fooled by the fact that they are pretty. No one thinks they are pretty because men bred women to make pretty offsprings. The outside look is our creation.

The real creature inside in no way looks like what we think it is.

And that`s the catch!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 7
Keyster November 22, 2010 at 20:59

Until a man understands that a women’s love is NOT unconditional, he is in the dark.

Shrewd and cunning in the ways of “love”; (it’s a female survival strategy).
The younger man’s romantic idealism of a commited spouse, living “happily ever after”, needs to be shattered, if it isn’t already. It was never about love, it was about SECURITY. What men have to offer compared to what she may already have (or hope to have), is no longer as compelling as it once was.

While he’s off working, she’s perfecting her skills further. Her sexuality is her allure; obsessing over make-up, hair, attire…all meant to attract her prey. Other than that, she has little else to offer society. Young men need to understand that women are not very nice people, by design. Their tender hearts and nurturing souls are a facade, part of the propaganda.
This fact is deeper down the rabbit hole than most are willing to go.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 1
thehermit November 22, 2010 at 21:55

Legions of women divorce their husbands and find themselves harried, working harder, poorer and either alone or with a man who doesn’t live up to her initial expectations.

You seem to forget women have their social hierarchy as well. Since feminism is the mainstream standard, divorce is cool. 100 yrs back it was a shame, and a big trouble for the women.. They do it, cos they can do it, and husband state is safer . It has bigger wallet.

Because we were kids at the time, we had no way of understanding why these women did what they did, but we saw how they lived.

That was the time when the state ultimately changed men in the husband position. Men don’t have real importance in marriages today- except sex, but that’s not what marriages were based upon.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0
Rebel November 22, 2010 at 22:03

It can be demonstrated mathematically that if the number of marriages were cut in two, the number of divorces would decrease accordingly.

Using the same maths, one can demonstrate that if marriage was abolished altogether, the number of divorces would eventually drop to nil.

I have no other choice but to conclude that marriage is the main cause of divorce. (or did I miss something?)

Then it becomes apparent that abolishing marriage would save all the hurts that are reported on forums such as this.

In fact, there would no longer need to be a Men’s Movement.
And it would remove much of the government’s power grip on our lives.

All that needs to be done is to return to pre-industrial’s lifestyle, when people (both men and women) were free from one another.

And maybe then can we have sex galore with anyone we choose. With no strings attached.
Wouldn’t life be great?
Free as the wind.
Carpe Diem Optissimus Maximus.

Time to cut the cord yet?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 12
gwallan November 22, 2010 at 22:58

@Lara said…

It isn’t in a woman’s best interest to be too loyal to any one man.

Non sequitur. It isn’t in a woman’s skill set to be loyal.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 48 Thumb down 1
TFH November 22, 2010 at 23:19

Hollenhund :

I gave you a thumbs up, Lara, for revealing what you really are.

I said the exact same sort of thing yesterday, noting that Lara admitted she would behave the same way as OJ Simpson did in the same situation, and Rob Fedrz interpreted it as me now being responsible for everything Lara says from now on.

No one came up to back Rob’s lunatic position, so he retreated.
_____________________________

It is quite possible that Lara is an act by a man to make women look bad, and thus the most well-acted, always-in-character act I have ever seen.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 27 Thumb down 17
custody-law November 23, 2010 at 00:19

When parents decide that they must separate, their children are often left in the middle of the

situation. Even in families where both parents have the best interests of the children at heart,

figuring out where they will live and who will be responsible for the various parts of raising

them is not always easy. For more help and advice visit….

custody laws

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7
Robert in Arabia November 23, 2010 at 00:54

A tribute to a New Age female I knew well.
After throwing a frying pan at me while I slept and calling the police because I responded by getting up rapidly and holding her on the floor until she calmed down, she waited two years and phone me to apologize. This was not an attempt to get back together.
When she discovered her son was abusing her 2 year old granddaughter, she immediately call the DCFS hot line.
Even though her ex divorced her to move in with his male lover, she insisted that her children keep up relations with him.
I have not seen her in 15 years. I wish her well.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4
crella November 23, 2010 at 02:07

Is “unconditional love” a real possibility? Here’s a definition I found online (many were of the same vein) :

It is important to understand the definition of unconditional love to be able to give it, it is the kind of love that expects nothing back, places no limits, and does not set any ideals or conditions on what it should be. When you love in this way you do it without expectation of reciprocity and with no preconceived notions of how or if they will express love back to you. This is the kind of love you see exhibited by parents and children, brothers and sisters, true friends, and the best of romantic relationships.

When you love someone unconditionally you do not set limits or boundaries on that love, not circumstances that would cause you to withdraw it, there is nothing that would cause you to not love the person. Even if the other person does something that you feel is intentional, it is overlooked if you are truly committed to unconditional love. You do not try to control the actions of the other person, nor do you tell them that you will not love them if they act a certain way or do a certain thing.

That does not sound like the normal human condition. A mother’s love for a newborn perhaps, but adults? How can ‘unconditional love’ be possible in any kind of committed relationship? You are already placing conditions on it by deciding to live together, or when you exchange vows. Loyal love, honest love, yes I think it exists, but I think the term ‘unconditional love ‘ is an overused buzzword. The bolded part of the above I agree with however-it’s not either loving or mature to keep threatening to withdraw love, to use it to control or dominate someone else.

Oh, definitely I think that women are fooling themselves…they don’t express regret over divorce because they have to convince themselves that they’ve done the right thing. Women are great at buffaloing themselves.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 4
Traveller November 23, 2010 at 02:38

“Interesting perspective from a woman who actually admits she made a terrible mistake…

http://frivolousdivorce.wordpress.com/

Just getting this post as a starting point, but come on, women do regret? They complain the settlement, this is different.

When a woman is dissatisfied with divorce, it is just (and again) about money.
She did not get enough money as she thought she deserved, that is all.

Loneliness and feelings? This happens only because of aging in a promiscuous hypergamous dating market, not about divorce.

When an ex wife of a billionaire complain? Ever heard Ivana Trump complain?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
mgtow November 23, 2010 at 03:06

Legions of women divorce their husbands and find themselves harried, working harder, poorer and either alone or with a man who doesn’t live up to her initial expectations.

Boo. Freakin’. Hoo.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 49 Thumb down 1
Lavazza November 23, 2010 at 03:13

crella: “Unconditional love” fits better with “agape”. IMO it has no place in “eros” and just some place in “philia”. “Unconditional love” is the non- attached love of sages who have renounced society and this existence, but it is impossible for somebody who has attachment to this existence.

In summary:

“eros”: love of what you do not have.
“philia”: love of what you have.
“agape”: love of what will always be there.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 23, 2010 at 04:29

SingleDad November 22, 2010 at 14:54
“I have never ever met a woman that regretted divorcing.”

You haven’t met my ex then. She regretted divorcing inside a week of our agreement to separate. Now? She’s going to regret it very, very much! I will see to it. I think MORE men should name and shame their ex wives like I have. I am amazed how so many men just roll over and let women commit crimes against them. I am totally disgusted in those manginas who refuse to sit on a jury to fairly and justly try a woman who has committed crimes. This idea the VAST MAJORITY of men will not dispense justice to a woman just because she is a woman is repulsive to me. And it SHOULD be repulsive to women as well.

My case, now so public, has clearly demonstrated that MEN AND WOMEN will not dispense justice to a woman who is a criminal. The result of this is surely going to be MANY more men will dispense summary justice themselves. I predict we will see a MASSIVE increase in dead wives. It is already starting.

ElectricAngel November 22, 2010 at 14:58
“Y’know, it was Globalman last year who mentioned that feminism was SO detrimental to women that they could not have come up with it on their own.”

EA. Feminism is a significant part of the depopulation agenda. If you met as many russian women as I have? You would know how bad ‘feminism’ is for women. Now I am three years down the track and so happy? I know that marriage is for fools…as I used to be.

UncleFester November 22, 2010 at 16:33
“Women can be every bit as “cold” as men, and quite a bit more calculating and manipulative. I submit that excusing the enemy is no longer an option.”

Seconded. I propose that women who commit crimes stand trial and are punished as ‘equal before the law’ to a man who commits the same crime. Men have every right to run courts and issue remedy notices and to enforce them. That’s what I will be doing.

W.F. Price November 22, 2010 at 16:59

True Welmer. My fav#4 was telling me about a german boyfriend she had and she was talking about how ‘faithful’ women were. His immediate response was “our women were so faithful to us german men they would shag the closest american soldier for stockings. THAT is how faithful our women were.” She was miffed that the guy put her in her place so harshly….but he was absolutely correct.
The PTB have given women great PR for 10,000 years because it was necessary. Now? It is no longer necessary.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 6
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 23, 2010 at 04:30

Another excellent article Welmer. I hope the young men are listening.

Yes. Women are usually worse off 5 years or so after divorce. Most women can not manage money. They waste it and finish up impoverished. Many Men get happier 5 years after divorce. Some, like me, get happier sooner.

I was at dinner last night and there was a birthday party in the restaurant for some woman who was about 60. Looking on? It occurred to me that if I was ‘successful’ in ‘saving my marriage’ I would be married to a woman like those I saw last night in 12 years time. When it is put like that? It is hardly any wonder women are so insecure about men staying with them into their old age.

I have come to believe marriage is an artificial construct that enslaves the man and creates ‘welfare’ for the women and children. Period. The further away I get from being married the more the question is begged ‘what WAS I thinking’. By a man rescinding his consent to be married to the state due to the fraudulent and undisclosed nature of the terms and conditions of the contract he can avoid all this rubbish. I wait with interest to see how many men actually do this.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 3
ResoluteMan November 23, 2010 at 04:43

LMAO!

I think Lara’s “provocations” are hilarious.

she says:

“You want me to tell you we will love you unconditionally, but we won’t. Women never love men unconditionally.”

Hey that’s perfect for me, I’ll settle for unconditional sex.

and

“Women can be loyal, but it is easier to be loyal to a winner versus a loser.”

Does killing the man you didn’t love unconditionally, and killing the children you had by him make me a winner worthy of your “loyalty”?

Well why not since we’re going all stone age?

You’re never going to live a world in which you don’t have to compromise with men, woman. We’d all be losers in the kind of world you seem nostalgic for, but YOU personally would be the biggest loser.

Careful what you wish for.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 1
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 23, 2010 at 04:44

Höllenhund November 22, 2010 at 18:45

Yep. I read an article nearly two years back about how the incidence of adultery of the british women was so high in WW II that there was a blackout on ANY reporting of it so as to not demoralise the husbands out fighting. Blood testing was also introduced into the UK in the 60s and when it was found so many men were not the father it was quietly stopped for ‘no apparent reason’.

Us men need to face the fact that our women are quite happy to lie to us about anything and everything. Then…If a man like me takes a stand and says ‘western women are, in general, liars and hypocrites now’ then PLENTY of manginas also attack me. And when I asked men here to come over to the free man ireland site and share their own experiences how many did? Three I think it was. What a pathetic turn out that was. And when even Padre Illuminati finally came here and talked to you men you didn’t listen to him either. And he’s been fighting for Dads for years and years. Men choose to be wilfully ignorant and you deserve all the shit you are getting in spades.

You men here can’t be bothered to help a man like me who has done so much in the area of mens rights. You can’t be bothered to even educate yourselves. In many ways? All those men who refuse to educate themselves deserve the abuse they are getting from their guvments for not having the balls to stand up to them. Henry Makow posted an article on this very topic this week.
http://www.henrymakow.com/most_talk_few_do_anything.html

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 12
Augenblick November 23, 2010 at 04:45

“A mother’s love for a newborn perhaps, but adults?”
I would not use that as a example.

Woman admits killing child with a chainsaw.

http://translate.google.com.br/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/SaoPaulo/0,,AA1343022-5605,00.html&act=url

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4
Lara November 23, 2010 at 04:47

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 52
Höllenhund November 23, 2010 at 04:55

Lara,

they were committing adultery with American GIs stationed in the UK.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 0
Ken November 23, 2010 at 05:00

You make laws that allow women to be irresponsible, a greater portion of them will be irresponsible. When that happens, they turn into sh*t.
I have met way too many women who have made complete train-wrecks out of their lives, and tried (and often succeeded) at pulling as many men down with them along the way (usually out of imagined spite – based on fictional musings of oppressions past).
The kids they have: I sincerely feel sorry for them – especially the boys. Single moms these days are so out of touch with “maleness” that pretty much every boy is labeled as having ADHD – mom gives her own sons pills to counteract the “maleness” rather than deal with it. I’d guesstimate about 60% of the male children I have met have been labeled with ADHD.

Absolutely correct! I’ve seen the exact same thing….and it is one more match to the bonfire of western civilization.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 0
SingleDad November 23, 2010 at 07:05

So, if you accept all this and then figure that having a child is what you desire then do you go surragate or natural?

I choose natural under the idea that a child needs both parents.

What I didn’t think about was all the emotional turmoil the divorce would, most likely and, in his case it definitely brought him.

She would use every interaction between us to gain advantage in the custody fight which, to her, became a fight for his affection. Although, she wouldn’t bring herself to actually try for him. It seemed she used feminist arguments about her not mothering him as us all expecting her to follow stereotypical roles. Asking women to do this is not just considered wrong thinking. It’s now against the law if done to a stranger and can get you fired or imprisoned.

So, we couldn’t expect her to mother.

And in court the Judged explained to me that expecting her to mother would be illegal. As long as she wasn’t burning him with cigarettes she was a “good enough” mom, the legal requirement for a mother to retain custody.

When she, after the divorce, became a total freak. Then fought me for 2 years to get a move away when we had 50/50 and I was doing all the homework, a move that she thought she could win by 1) Making my son choose between us and 2) Using her new husband to fight me in court costing 300 k each or 600k.

When these didn’t work she chose to give up full legal and physical custody and hardly visits him. She talks to him every few weeks as most.

So, the question I have is, should I have gone surrogate or was all the pain for him worth my desire to have a child?

I am coming to believe it is child abuse to bring a child into a society that so hates children.

Becaues, IMO, that’s all that feminism really boils down to. Freeing women from the role of mother. To do this they had to villanize children in womens minds.

I now thing that wasn’t very hard to do….so much for instinctual mothers love, another myth like unconditional love that men were fed and so readily fooled themselves into believing.

Don’t have children, it’s child abuse, especially male children.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 5
Dalrock November 23, 2010 at 07:25

Outstanding post Welmer!

This is a well kept secret, yet when you think about it it matches exactly what we see every day. I think women are at some level aware of this, because even as they continue to ratchet up the legal imbalance and remove the remaining vestiges of social control the divorce rate has actually been falling.

The best kept part of the secret is that women still crave investment/commitment from a worthy man following divorce. All of the successful divorce fantasy books and movies involve the divorcée finding a stable relationship or even marriage with a high value man. This proves the lie of the oft repeated claim that divorcées remain alone late in life because women are somehow “done with men” after 40. Sure they are done with men. They are done with the bottom of the barrel men which are the only options available for many of them. They still wish they had a good man, but not all of them are willing to make the massive downward adjustment needed to get (and keep) a new man. They don’t want to turn a “paper loss” into a real one and face reality.

I also think it isn’t an accident that books/movies like EPL and How Stella Got Her Groove Back involve the divorcée going overseas to find a better man. The women reading/watching need some extra help suspending their disbelief. As much as they want to believe the fantasy they aren’t seeing their friends and neighbors experience the premise of the plot following divorce. Having the women go overseas allows them to assume there are somehow greener pastures they just haven’t personally observed.

The easiest way to confirm the validity of what I am saying is to note the hysteria level when you bring up how often divorcées remain alone, or even mention that women dislike being alone.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 1
Angelo November 23, 2010 at 07:32

Women can be loyal, but it is easier to be loyal to a winner versus a loser.
——————————————–
What an amazingly honest statement. It shows that you have no idea what loyalty is!

My wife has been ill for going on 10 years now, was misdiagnosed and put on medication that made the situation worse. In that time, I have stuck with her even though I have had to do virtually all of the work around the house, and nearly all of the cooking. I changed jobs and moved cities so that I would not have to work out of town when she was not functional, I worked overtime to hire a nanny to help out for a few years along the way. I paid for specialists, therapists… you name it. She is finally medication free as of last month and things are looking up for the future.

That Lara, is the way a traditional man defines loyalty to his wife. Most modern women are not deserving of such a man.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 9
Höllenhund November 23, 2010 at 08:05

In five years I would like to be married and have a father figure for my kids, someone who is a provider and can be really stable. It’s hard doing it on your own.

Britney Spears quoted in Glamour Magazine two years after she filed for divorce and sole custody of her children:

http://www.glamour.com/magazine/2008/12/britney-spears-starts-over?currentPage=4

Even when having millions of dollars, the desire of the average woman for the provider-protector man doesn’t evaporate.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2
Keyster November 23, 2010 at 08:14

“Becaues, IMO, that’s all that feminism really boils down to. Freeing women from the role of mother. To do this they had to villanize children in womens minds.”

Children are a burden that make her more dependent on a man. How could feminists expect “equality” with men unless pregnancy, birth and motherhood were slowly eradicated? Abortion is the great equalizer, which is why they’re so passionate about fighting for it still. A woman saddled with children simply can’t compete with men, IF she’s a good mother.

Motherhood, femininity and commitment to a man is considered a detriment and counter to the feminist agenda. If left unencumbered by helping a husband raise a family, she will create, invent, innovate and lead. She’ll rise up and demonstrate she IS just as intelligent, driven and capable. Or, so that’s what they would have you believe.

Forty years and several generations later we’re starting to discover that wasn’t really a significant impediment to woman’s glorious achievements. It was that, regardless of motherhood, she has little interest in striving toward anything else.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 0
Höllenhund November 23, 2010 at 08:16

On another note, this somewhat off-topic quote speaks volumes about the female psyche. She surrendered to her hypergamous urge to chase thugs, had herself sperminated twice by one of them and got badly burned, and now essentially expects a beta chump to be the father figure and provider to her two sons, because she knows their alpha thug father is unsuitable for that. She wants to follow the evolutionary female reproductive strategy (= alpha for mating, beta for raising children) without even being aware of it. Well, at least she’s not as bad as Jennifer Aniston (“fathers aren’t necessary”).

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2
NMH November 23, 2010 at 08:23

Welmer: I dont think your hypothesis occurs as often as you may think. Just anecdotally I know of several divorced women who are very happy with their new lives. For example, my sister in law divorced her first husband and has successfully traded up to marry my brother–they live in very high style as, unlike her first husband, my brothers salary is as high as hers. I suspect that the first husband was devastated by the divorce. I know of another woman making $200 K USD as a faculty member at a university who was very happy to divorce her husband because he had trouble keeping a job and she lost the gina tingle for him, she also is much happier now.

It seems to me if that if a woman has either a.) good lucrative employment or b.) she has the looks to trade up then she will be happier with the divorce. If she has no skills and her looks are fading then she maybe headed for poverty–I know of a divorced woman like this.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11
Carnivore November 23, 2010 at 08:28

It seems to me if that if a woman has either a.) good lucrative employment or b.) she has the looks to trade up then she will be happier with the divorce.

Yeah, BUT, when the collapse comes, option a) won’t be available since most of the foo-foo jobs women hold will evaporate.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Firepower November 23, 2010 at 08:35

garryw November 22, 2010 at 14:59

Sure she’s raking in the alimony today, but due to the short length of our marriage, she will lose it soon and find herself sleeping under a bridge.

If that’s the level of feeling you have for the once ‘luv of your life’ – complete with all the trimmings of a fancy ceremony, reception and honeymoon.

What level of feeling should we have, exactly, towards you for being the one to put the ring on her finger.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 10
Dalrock November 23, 2010 at 08:39

@Höllenhund
Even when having millions of dollars, the desire of the average woman for the provider-protector man doesn’t evaporate.

Exactly! I think this is because the desire isn’t simply a practical one as men often assume. It is also a deep seated psychological one. And women are brutal to each other about this sort of thing. I imagine Face-book makes this 10x worse. The ones with a man invested in them will subtly taunt the crap out of the ones who don’t.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1
zed November 23, 2010 at 08:47

It is quite possible that Lara is an act by a man to make women look bad, and thus the most well-acted, always-in-character act I have ever seen.

I’ve been thinking the same thing. It’s hard to be that stupid and remember to breathe.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 3
Dalrock November 23, 2010 at 08:48

@NMH

We see different anecdotal examples, but that is to be expected. However the stats back up the perspective that more often than not women end up with a worse deal even when they initiated the divorce, especially if they initiated the divorce later in life. And since marriage tends to happen later, the vast majority of divorcées are over 35. Per the latest US Census stats, over 80% of divorced/not remarried women are over age 40, and 89% of them are over age 35. Some of those late life divorcées will make out just fine or even quite well. The majority will struggle financially and/or to attract investment from another man.

Keep in mind that in the “real life” stories of EPL and Stella the results were far different than in the book/movie. The EPL author married a man 17 years older than her who married her because he needed a visa. From as best as I can tell she now supports him. The Stella author was humiliated when she later learned that the man she married was gay and conned her for a visa. She now pays him spousal support.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3
mgtow November 23, 2010 at 08:53

Okay, this is somewhat off-topic, but I need to get it off my chest.

The link to the left of The Spearhead site:
Support Save — End DV and False Accusations
http://www.saveservices.org/

Go to this site, you will find this line near the top:
“Strengthening VAWA, ending abuse”

1) We need LESS govt interference into domestic quibbles.
2) We need VAWA to be repealed, not strengthened. Oh, by the way, where is VAMA? Exactly why is violence against people with vaginas so special that a special set of laws catering to them needed to be enacted?

All I want to say is: be careful of strangers arriving at your doorsteps bearing gifts. And beware of who/what you associate with.

What you gain in pittance from ad revenue and site hits, you will lose much more in credibility.

Learn more about Teri Stoddard:
http://mgtow.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=4143

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2
D November 23, 2010 at 08:56

@Lara,

I hope you keep posting despite the low ratings, keeps things interesting.

But I think your statement’s pithiness is evocative. Are they pithy because they are as unexamined as they appear, or are you just trying to assert short, bumper-sticker truthiness generalizations because you don’t have the time or energy to explain why you think they are true?

“My children will always be my children, but men can come and go. It isn’t in a woman’s best interest to be too loyal to any one man.”

Really? Why do you think that? That sounds like you are choosing to have men who come and go, and surprise, men come and go when you make a choice like that. You could choose a man who is dedicated to his children, and his family. They exist, it is up to you to choose them.

It’s easy to pick men who come and go. If that’s your experience, give me 100 random men, and I will, in 5 minutes, pick the men who you are choosing from among them. They will number as few as 3 and as many as 15. You are looking straight through not less than 85 of the others.

And this one:

“It isn’t in a woman’s best interest to be too loyal to any one man.”

Is that a misquote attributed to you? I can’t find the original.

If accurate – why on earth would you say that? In the long-run, a strong pair, bonded, will do better in total than they ever could have as individuals that open and break long series of commitments. There are times of weakness, but because change is inevitable, those pass. A strong attitude will prevail over bad periods.

If you have a strong attitude, and your partner does, and you are loyal to one another, you will prosper in the long run over all those who play.

Now – to the person guessing you are a man just playing the rest of us – seems like as good a supposition as I can imagine. Are you for real?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 18
misterb aka misterbastard November 23, 2010 at 09:05

As the old saying goes, never trust the government. Only a complete idiot would place his and her faith in the government.

Whether if you’re male or female, you can’t have thing both ways, regardless. Personally I don’t take stock in nonsense of marrying out of love. Neither should women. Life aint a Harlequin romance novel, it’s real life.

the idea of marrying out of love is sheer stupidity.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6
Joseph November 23, 2010 at 09:10

@Lara,

You are a sociopath. I don’t know how to state it any simpler.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 6
Joseph November 23, 2010 at 09:13

@Lara,

Maybe I should go at this from a different direction as directly doesn’t seem to sink in with you very well.

Let’s say you had a son. Does your son deserve to have a woman who will be loyal to him? Or does he just come and go like all men?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 1
Temporal November 23, 2010 at 09:17

[quote]Lara,

they were committing adultery with American GIs stationed in the UK. [\quote]

This phrase came into my mind:

“The Americans are overpaid, overfed, oversexed and over here”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 5
dubcik November 23, 2010 at 09:27

Sigle Dad said
“But don’t ever underestimate a womans capability for self delusion. They all think they did great and life couldn’t be any better.”

This is the crux of the problem, most women who divorce because “they just weren’t happy” are so narcisstic they almost have a personality disorder. They are not capable of rationally looking at what they have done to the people around them and their children, because everything they do is for and about THEM. People like this cannot critically look at themselves, they are victims and everything bad in their life is someones else’s fault, yet everything they perceive that is good in their life is due to their hard work and struggle.

For example, women will only say divorce is “bad” when the ex doesn’t pay her enough, take the kids enough etc. etc. But on Oprah, she’ll say divorce is great because it’s better for the kids to lose their father than live in a home where daddy doesn’t make mommy’s gina tinggle anymore.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 23 Thumb down 9
SingleDad November 23, 2010 at 09:44

@ All of you who think the female gravy train will end with this recession, lol

Mommy government knows that women un-employed are women found dead in their apartements in the winter from not paying for heat.

So, women and children will never go hungry or need a man in our society.

Before women have any benefits withdrawn, men will be made to work till their 90 years old and will be made to live in tent cities (just like during the last depression).

Before women are denied health care men will be made to die by the truck load from simple infections due to lack of antibiotics.

Short of a miltary takeover or cultural take over of our government, things will only get worse for men as their are less resources to share.

And if men take to the streets it will be only to get food and housing for their families. Men will be quite happy in those tents because that’s the way men are and everybody, especially women, know this.

So, I do not think some cataclysmic event will make things better. Possibley the slow encroachment of Sharia, but that would be it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 14
ElectricAngel November 23, 2010 at 10:10

How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb.

Answer: 1

Actually, the canonical answer to this question is “That’s not funny.”

I love that joke.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 4
Lara November 23, 2010 at 10:54

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 48
Lara November 23, 2010 at 11:00

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 46
Lara November 23, 2010 at 11:16

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 47
Lara November 23, 2010 at 11:19

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 48
Lara November 23, 2010 at 11:30

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 51
Paradoxotaur November 23, 2010 at 12:04

Look! A squirrel!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0
SingleDad November 23, 2010 at 12:07

Where?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3
Anonymous Reader November 23, 2010 at 12:46

Look! A hamster!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
continent November 23, 2010 at 14:57

W.F. Price
Recently there was an obituary of ex wife whose husband created a new modern town on East Coast He had passed away about 15 years ago. Stunning admission by him
“Mr. and Mrs. Rouse divorced in the early 1970s after more than three decades of marriage. Mr. Olsen quoted James Rouse as saying the breakup was a “deep personal incompatibility — my inability to meet her needs and her inability to live with that gap.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
greyghost November 23, 2010 at 16:40

Dalrock

Exactly! I think this is because the desire isn’t simply a practical one as men often assume. It is also a deep seated psychological one. And women are brutal to each other about this sort of thing. I imagine Face-book makes this 10x worse. The ones with a man invested in them will subtly taunt the crap out of the ones who don’t.

Very good observation. When MGTOW gets more common this will be fun to watch.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 0
PeterTheGreat November 23, 2010 at 17:21

@W.F. Price

Concerning women in WWII, there is an interesting book on the subject entitled Love, Sex and War: Changing Values, 1939-1945, by John Costello dealing with British women and G.I.s including .

Googling for it online I found some interesting excerpts on a site: http://www.heretical.com/costello/01love.html

While the Brits were dying for Churchill, their wives were whoring themselves silly.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Lara November 23, 2010 at 17:28

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 41
Dalrock November 23, 2010 at 19:15

@greyghost
When MGTOW gets more common this will be fun to watch.

It must be happening now I would say, but just too subtle for us to notice (since we aren’t divorced women on facebook…). There are 13.8 million divorced women in the US today, 80% of whom are over 40. That is a truckload of post marital spinsterhood…

And a lot of opportunities for married middle aged women to take subtle digs at their unmarried frenemies.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0
Joseph November 23, 2010 at 19:52

@Lara,

“As much as we value family men, though, we can’t help it, we are still hot for certain bad boys.”

Crazy is repeating the same mistake expecting a different outcome. I am well aware of the female hypergamous instinct. Bad boys are called that for a reason. That’s just you not accepting your responsibility in the matter. If a woman decides to have children out of wedlock, then she deserves whats coming. Any woman who enters into a sexual relationship with a man who isn’t her husband is a slut. Any woman who places her children above her husband is biting the hand that feeds them and is deranged. I swear, dealing with women now is like dealing with sick animals. They don’t do rational things and I honestly don’t think they care.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 0
CM November 23, 2010 at 20:48

You reap what you sow isn’t that the aphorism? Or is that too old fashioned for our post-modern, scientific, pre-apocolyptic, feminazi matrix? The wrath of God, the laws of nature, and the karmic seeds of the past all uphold what you say W.F Price as truth… Only problem is these things aren’t really recognized by anyone who doesn’t care enough to ask or observe – if they did, they wouldn’t make the mistake of marrying who they did or even worse divorcing. But i’m glad you pointed it out… nobody escapes the truth, Obama, Margret Thacher, NOW, and the rest of them where ever they are – they got their guns, their bombs, their Berlin walls, their sadomasochism and pedophilia – they got the world locked down like a lead brick… but they are missing one thing: the truth. And thats going to get them in the end.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2
Rachel November 23, 2010 at 23:30

Women can be loyal, but it is easier to be loyal to a winner versus a loser.

My children will always be my children, but men can come and go. It isn’t in a woman’s best interest to be too loyal to any one man.

You want me to tell you we will love you unconditionally, but we won’t. Women never love men unconditionally.

Excuse me? Who is this “we” you speak of? I don’t remember making you the official spokesperson for women. I have to ask, do you honestly believe what you’re saying, or are you simply trying to avoid accepting any personal responsibility of your ways by projecting them onto the whole female gender?

If it’s the former, please wake up. You are not a helpless victim. You don’t have to love your children more than your husband. That’s your choice. You can also choose to be faithful to your husband and prioritize him above your children. And if you don’t that’s also your choice. Once when I was a young child I asked my mother who she loved more, me or my father. It surprised me when she told me that she loved me, but she loved my father more. Because someday I’d grow up and move out and have a family of my own, but she’d always be with my father. I’ve never forgotten what she said, and though I didn’t fully understand then, in time I came to see the wisdom of her words. She didn’t approach her marriage thinking it would fail or with an eye on the exit in case things got too hard. And I’m extremely grateful for it. Your children will also leave you someday. If you place your highest priority on your relationship with them, what will you do as that relationship grows increasingly less significant? If you don’t want to lose your husband you need to value him. If you really love your kids the best thing you can do for them is to love your husband. Trust me, your love for your kids isn’t diminished if you love your husband more. But as long as you think of him as replaceable you’ll never be able to love him the way you should.

And if it’s the later, grow up. At least be honest and say flat out, “I’m not loyal to my husband, and I don’t love him unconditionally.” But instead you try to deflect any personal guilt by bringing all of us down to your level. You want to make all women look just as awful and selfish as you. And frankly, I have no respect for someone like that.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 5
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 24, 2010 at 03:23

Höllenhund November 23, 2010 at 08:05

“In five years I would like to be married and have a father figure for my kids, someone who is a provider and can be really stable. It’s hard doing it on your own.”

Britney Spears.

Oh yes…it’s ssssooooooo hard to have all those millions but still no man wants to actually be your husband.

Women really, really need a man in their life. But when they get one? They mess it up so often it’s not funny.

PeterTheGreat November 23, 2010 at 17:21
“While the Brits were dying for Churchill, their wives were whoring themselves silly.”

Correct. And no man should be in any doubt this is the true nature of women. And you men here have an obigation to take this message to OTHER places. Not just present it here like an ‘echo chamber’. It does no good at all to tell other men what they already know. It only does good to tell a young man who does NOT know this stuff. Sure, it’s time consuming. But if I am prepared to spend 3,000+ hours on this? Why are not other men prepared to go out and speak into the face of no-agreement? Every young man who kills himself based on the abuse of the FC etc who COULD have been saved if YOU talked to him is blood on YOUR hands gentlemen.

Every day I talk to young men on this topic. I’ve put all the information they need out there for them to read at great expense to myself. I’ve had many young men write to me and thank me for what I have done. I claim it is the obligation of EVERY man who knows about this to be spreading the word as fast as possible to save as many young mens lives as possible. I don’t see men disputing that. I just don’t see them doing it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 24, 2010 at 03:28

SingleDad November 23, 2010 at 09:44
“And if men take to the streets it will be only to get food and housing for their families. Men will be quite happy in those tents because that’s the way men are and everybody, especially women, know this.”

SD, I am now encouraging men to form associations instead of companies so that they are not owned by the guvment. Then do business based on those associations and based on common law. In this way no taxes are payable by those companies or those men. I also encourage men to join in small groups and make vow that they will defend each others rights from any and all who would violate them.

When the cops know that if they try to kidnapp a man who is living free in this fem-nazi world that he has some unknown colleagues who are sworn to protect that man? The cops will leave him alone. Cops are cowards now. They only beat down men who are not willing to fight for their rights. That would be most men here.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3
The White Rider November 24, 2010 at 05:08

As much as we value family men, though, we can’t help it, we are still hot for certain bad boys.

A refreshing bit of honesty, I suppose.

So, I do not think some cataclysmic event will make things better. Possibley the slow encroachment of Sharia, but that would be it.

Islam / Sharia law seems attractive in the short term but consider that the current crop of Islam from the middle-east seems to function similarly to polygamist Christians in North America. While sure, you may initially get a fairer shake from Sharia law than you would Western judiciaries to begin with, as man, that kind of shit is scary and no better for men in the long term.

Polygamists in the US and Canada throw out boys and young men who have little education and skills who’ve been indoctrinated their entire lives to view the outside world as evil. All so that some old guy can add a new teenage wife to his harem. Don’t think other polygamist cultures don’t do similar things.

“Die for the glory of Allah so you can get your 72 virgins in Heaven”? Yeah, right. Die so that Omar over there who already has 8 wives can go balls deep in a 17 year old you’re seen as competition for, young man.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
Lara November 24, 2010 at 09:01

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 27
The White Rider November 24, 2010 at 09:26

It’s because the boys in those enclosed societies are browbeaten into following tyrannic sets of rules that include things such as “Never talk to the opposite sex,”, no outside media, no movies, music or anything of the sort. It’s Taliban Jr. The boys are often molested and/or physically beaten and abused and poorly educated and then used as workhorses for sweatshop wages of $100-300 for 2 weeks of full-time work, sometimes even expected to buy their own tools/machinery for that work out of the pittance they’re paid.

Some of the grown men even find themselves forcefully ejected and have their wives “re-appropriated” and married off to someone else. And yes it’s obvious that girls are more valued in such a society because such a society by definition excludes at least 60% of its men. That’s the future of the west if Islamic invasion/population replacement ever takes place, I’m sure. Except with more clothing and face veils and all that.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0
Lara November 24, 2010 at 10:22

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 29
zed November 24, 2010 at 10:45

And if it’s the later, grow up. At least be honest and say flat out, “I’m not loyal to my husband, and I don’t love him unconditionally.” But instead you try to deflect any personal guilt by bringing all of us down to your level. You want to make all women look just as awful and selfish as you. And frankly, I have no respect for someone like that.

Well said, Rachel. It’s nice to hear from women like you once in a while. I’ve been wondering when decent women would start getting fed up with the hatchet job that is being done on their reputation.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1
Lara November 24, 2010 at 10:59

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 29
Lara November 24, 2010 at 11:21

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 27
crella November 24, 2010 at 14:56

Excuse me? Who is this “we” you speak of? I don’t remember making you the official spokesperson for women.

***Applause***

But as long as you think of him as replaceable you’ll never be able to love him the way you should.

This. Thank you Rachel. I get so sick of hearing women say ‘My children come FIRST!’ and relegating Dad to underdog status. They forget how they got those children, who supports them…

If you see what Crella wrote you will understand why I said that women don’t love men unconditionally.

Oh no you don’t! Your initial post was a blurted remark, you’re not going to use my later post as toilet paper to clean up your own mess. You were commenting on the nature of women as you see it. It’s a pretty insulting and cynical view, in my opinion. Half the time I can’t believe you’re serious, I’ve come to think of you as someone with little to do but come on the net and intentionally provoke people all day long. I was saying that I think ‘unconditional love’ is a buzzword that is overused, Dr.Phil country.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3
ATF November 24, 2010 at 15:34

Men and women are born from the same unisex body, there are some differences between men and women. But they are fundamentally the same unisex body tweaked towards being a man or a woman, i.e. you guys could have been girls if it had went the other way. See the animation below.

http://www.pennmedicine.org/encyclopedia/em_DisplayAnimation.aspx?gcid=000110&ptid=17

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 30 Thumb down 24
Nergal November 24, 2010 at 17:32

“Growing up in the 1980s, during the divorce rampage that swept the US starting in the 1970s, I knew a lot of kids whose mothers made these poor choices. Perhaps they were disappointed with their husbands for not growing up fast enough, or maybe they felt the thrill of women’s lib and wanted to go to war against the men they had married to advance the cause of feminism.”

Dude,anybody who literally breaks his back for his family IS grown up,in my opinion.

My father was a manual laborer. He worked his ASS off in a job that actually killed some of his friends. Women have no right to talk about this “maturity” shit. Many,if not most, sit on their ass arranging “brunches” and watching television all day. That’s what a teenager does, not what an adult does.

And that’s fine with me, as long as they don’t think they’re more “mature” because they hit puberty first. When I hear the words “sober”,”dependable”,”mature”, I think of a leathery welder with flash burns all over his body and rough calloused hands that have been swinging a hammer until they bleed for 15 years, not a woman who spends her days gabbing on the telephone,gossiping about her friends’ love lives,cackling like a fat overfed hen.

“Although here on The Spearhead we often dwell on the injustices heaped on men and the incentives and benefits women can receive from betraying and abandoning husbands, one thing that ought to be pointed out is that in many – perhaps most – cases divorce is actually a stupid move on the part of a woman. Legions of women divorce their husbands and find themselves harried, working harder, poorer and either alone or with a man who doesn’t live up to her initial expectations.”

I think we could all agree that’s because a lot of women know exactly diddly fuck about managing money from getting a consistent allotment from first their parents, then their boyfriends and parents, then their husbands, and then their husbands via government all their lives.

No woman has to work for money, hence women know fuck all about investing it wisely.

Divorce has nothing to do with it, except the factor of a man standing there saying, “Uh, honey, if you buy that $3000 pair of shoes we can’t eat this month.” is removed from the equation.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
Nergal November 24, 2010 at 17:41

Men and women are born from the same unisex body, there are some differences between men and women. But they are fundamentally the same unisex body tweaked towards being a man or a woman, i.e. you guys could have been girls if it had went the other way. See the animation below.

Dude,shut the fuck up. Everybody here knows at least that much about biology. You’re retarded if you don’t think having your body and brain flooded with a different set of hormones for 20+ years produces a completely different person.

If there’s enough estrogen in you to cause you to grow tits, don’t you think that maybe,just might be able to produce other differences?

If you don’t, you have no scientific basis for saying so. You haven’t done any studies and the ones that have been done suggest MASSIVE differences. Males collectively have a several point IQ lead over females due to the fact that basically only the male brain is capable of true genius,i.e. over 140 IQ. Males tolerate pain better.

These are two proven facts,backed up by mountains of research. What have you got? A fucked-up understanding of sex differences, a possible gender-dysmorphic brain and speculations.

I’ve seen the light. Your would-be gender-bending everybody’s-the-same-let’s-sing-kumbaya-in-an-androgynous-gender-neutral-falsetto approach has me completely convinced.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 16
ATF November 24, 2010 at 19:10

@Negal

The opposite of what you say is true, men and women are more alike then they are different, sure there are differences. But a lot of bullshit is cultural (feminism) and only are only exasperated in the PUBLIC MIND as you prove.

“But Dr Hyde, writing in American Psychologist, says her review of 46 meta-analyses (which cover a number of studies) conducted over the last 20 years, shows men and women are alike in the majority of areas.”

i.e. someone with a fucking education who has reviewed the studies. If you are going to bitch that a woman can’t do scientific research or are offended stuff it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 28
ATF November 24, 2010 at 19:23

@Nergal

And what I posted had nothing to do with gender bending, the point was to show the common humanity between the sexes.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 27 Thumb down 24
Nergal November 24, 2010 at 20:01

i.e. someone with a fucking education who has reviewed the studies. If you are going to bitch that a woman can’t do scientific research or are offended stuff it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You fucking fool.

I can’t believe that people actually agreed with you.

Did I say women can’t do scientific research or that I’m offended by it? Fuck, a monkey could do scientific research if you trained it to, and I wouldn’t even be offended by that.

All I said is that women are noticeably different from men. Duh. What’s controversial about that? And you seriously believe that a FEMALE scientist doesn’t maybe have an agenda for saying men and women are the same? You think the establishment would permit someone to say otherwise? Scientists have been forced out for less than saying the obvious,men and women are different.

Would you agree that women have tits, whereas men generally do not?

What differences would you and your female scientist admit to?

Yeah, ok. You’re right. Adult men and women are exactly the same thing. Nature just made two redundant types of humans that are exactly the same in every regard,despite all the completely obvious easily-observable outward differences. Like the fact that women are shorter,have more body fat, are not as intelligent,react more severely to pain,pee squatting down, don’t have penises and give birth.

Hell, lead the way. Let’s stop calling them “female” or “women”,obviously we’re discriminating against these dickless,child-birthing men.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 10
namae nanka November 25, 2010 at 03:04

“But Dr Hyde, writing in American Psychologist, says her review of 46 meta-analyses (which cover a number of studies) conducted over the last 20 years, shows men and women are alike in the majority of areas.”

i.e. someone with a fucking education who has reviewed the studies. If you are going to bitch that a woman can’t do scientific research or are offended stuff it.

Janet Shibley Hyde?
She is an utter idiot, pity that you think that she can do scientific research. Just about every other year she brings out a report that says boys and girls perform similarly in maths.

http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/07/janet-hyde-boys-girls-in-math-not.html

and her work was taken apart here:

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/math2.htm

and taken apart some more here:
http://www.geoffreyfalk.com/wp_blog/?page_id=28

Look how capable she is of doing “scientific research”. Nergal’s point actually is more relevant,

“And you seriously believe that a FEMALE scientist doesn’t maybe have an agenda for saying men and women are the same?”

Indeed. This is the danger associated with women in power or in influence, for:

“Woman wishes to wish away the differences between the sexes. – but then, that is the nature of woman.”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0
namae nanka November 25, 2010 at 03:11

Janet Hyde

Professor (of Psychology and Women’s Studies)
Ph.D. 1972, University of California – Berkeley

http://psych.wisc.edu/faculty/bio/kmHyde.html

I just threw up a little.

strangely my browser updates the page without sticking here:

My research falls in the areas of psychology of women, human sexuality, and gender-role development. One current research project, the Wisconsin Maternity Leave and Health Project (now called the Wisconsin Study of Families and Work), focuses on working mothers and their children; this research has public policy implications in the area of parental leave. Another current project, funded by the National Science Foundation, is the Moms & Math (M&M) Project, in which we are studying mothers interacting with their 5th or 7th grade children as they do mathematics homework together. Other research investigates the emergence of gender differences in depression in adolescence, peer sexual harrassment victimization in adolescence, and gender differences in mathematics performance.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
namae nanka November 25, 2010 at 03:18

And the another lunacy that has come from her:

Female elementary school teachers who are anxious about their math skills seem to pass on that lack of confidence to their female students, new research suggests.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=112661

But toward the end of the school year, the higher a teacher’s math anxiety, the lower the girls’ math achievement. Teacher anxieties did not affect boys similarly.

The study also found that the more anxious female teachers were about math, the more likely girls were to ascribe to the stereotype that “boys are good at math and girls are good at reading.” Girls who believed that stereotype performed worse in math than boys overall — and worse than girls who didn’t ascribe to stereotype.

Until recently, it was widely suspected that gender gaps in achievement in math and science had a biological basis, said Janet Shibley Hyde, a professor of psychology and women’s studies at University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Those notions have since been discredited. Research shows that on standardized tests, including state assessments required by the No Child Left Behind Act, female students do as well as males, Hyde said. One exception is the SAT used in college admissions, though the reasons for that are still being debated.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0
ATF November 25, 2010 at 05:26

@Nergal

You seem not to understand how science works, reviewing a large body of studies done by both MEN AND WOMEN over 20 years a general pattern will begin to occur and you can begin to make sound conclusions. It doesn’t matter who she is or her particular foibles.

So here’s one from THE ECONOMIST with Numbers, if you don’t like what DATA says, enjoy living in your ignorance.

http://www.economist.com/node/7245949?story_id=7245949

A diverse set of studies done by a large body of people are going to have patterns emerge regardless.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 21
ATF November 25, 2010 at 07:23

Stephen pinker on sex hormones

Vide0 See @35-37 minutes
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/debate05/debate05_index.html

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 11
namae nanka November 25, 2010 at 08:32

Unfortunately my first reply is still in moderation due to 3 links, I’d post it with 2 of them removed-

Janet Shibley Hyde?
She is an utter idiot or dishonest person(take your pick), pity that you think that she can do scientific research. Just about every other year she brings out a report that says boys and girls perform similarly in maths.

and her work was taken apart at la griffe du lion, and taken apart some more here:
http://www.geoffreyfalk.com/wp_blog/?page_id=28

Look how capable she is of doing “scientific research”. Nergal’s point actually is more relevant,

“And you seriously believe that a FEMALE scientist doesn’t maybe have an agenda for saying men and women are the same?”

Indeed. This is the danger associated with women in power or in influence, for:

“Woman wishes to wish away the differences between the sexes. – but then, that is the nature of woman.”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
namae nanka November 25, 2010 at 08:42

And about science itself, consider this:

http://doublemindedman.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/medical-science-all-wrong/

Ioannidis even released a paper, published in PLoS Medicine in 2005 stating 80 percent of non-randomized studies (by far the most common type) turn out to be wrong, as do 25 percent of supposedly gold-standard randomized trials, and as much as 10 percent of the platinum-standard large randomized trials. Ioannidis charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed.

He chuckles, but Ioannidis (pronounced yo-NEE-dees) tends to laugh not so much in mirth as to soften the sting of his attack. And sure enough, he goes on to suggest that an obsession with winning funding has gone a long way toward weakening the reliability of medical research.

Now what/who do you think funds the humanities departments and what do you think of their studies?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0
namae nanka November 25, 2010 at 08:47

Another choice quote from the above:

This array suggested a bigger, underlying dysfunction, and Ioannidis thought he knew what it was. “The studies were biased,” he says. “Sometimes they were overtly biased. Sometimes it was difficult to see the bias, but it was there.” Researchers headed into their studies wanting certain results—and, lo and behold, they were getting them. We think of the scientific process as being objective, rigorous, and even ruthless in separating out what is true from what we merely wish to be true, but in fact it’s easy to manipulate results, even unintentionally or unconsciously. “At every step in the process, there is room to distort results, a way to make a stronger claim or to select what is going to be concluded,” says Ioannidis. “There is an intellectual conflict of interest that pressures researchers to find whatever it is that is most likely to get them funded.”

gee, I am wondering what Prof Janet Hyde was thinking of while choosing her studies? Unconscious ‘similaration’?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 25, 2010 at 09:26

zed November 24, 2010 at 10:45
“I’ve been wondering when decent women would start getting fed up with the hatchet job that is being done on their reputation.”

Seems like never Zed. I’ve been asking women to their face why they allow women to commit crimes with impunity because it destroys their credibiity too. 2.5 years ago my close women friends laughed at me for asking that. Now? They are not laughing any more. Women are furious I make the statement that by allowing women to commit crimes with impunity when that crime is committed against a man they have created a mountain of evidence that the VAST MAJORITY of western women are liars and hypocrites. Me saying that upsets the women no end. But will they punish women who commit crimes against men like men have punished men who commit crimes against women for 10,000+ years? Nope.

Western women have a very well deserved reputation. Terrible.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 25, 2010 at 09:30

crella November 24, 2010 at 14:56
“This. Thank you Rachel. I get so sick of hearing women say ‘My children come FIRST!’”

Correct. In this link:
http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/58/threadid/594/scope/posts/Default.aspx
I have published my exs comment in an email begging me to be her husband again. I quote.

“I know you feel the relationship with our children is secondary and I have always made you wrong for that. I want our relationship to be complete freeing you to be a father to them. Will you be their father? No amount of mother love can compensate them for the loss of you…..I see how I have enrolled them in my stories about you to their detriment. I want them to have the loving relationship with you I know is possible.”

Of course. Inside 6 months she was claiming I was an adulterer, wife beater, a bad father and had ‘abandoned’ them. Apparently going to work in Saudi Arabia just before the Iraq war started and during the time compounds were being blown up and people were being shot in the street because of the recession in Europe is ‘abandonment’ by a man now. Who would have guessed?

Notice how she ADMITS she has psychologically abused the children. This is what this means.

“I see how I have enrolled them in my stories about you to their detriment.”

My ex used to say things to my children, in front of me, such as:

“Your father does not love you as much as I do because he’s always off having fun at work while I am here looking after you.”

Sure? ‘Having fun at work’ included at one point in time working 47 days straight many of them ’36 hour days’. ‘Having fun at work’ included having guns pointed at me many times a day by trigger happy national guards guys in Saudi Arabia. ‘Having fun at work’ means that when I was so stressed about my son having cancer and not knowing if he was going to live or die I would go to the mens room and weep silently and then wash my face and go back to work. THAT is what ‘having fun at work’ was like for me. Apparently going to work to pay for your family while one has cancer and is doing 6 months of chemo is ‘having fun’. Who would have guessed?

Her comments are abuse. The most cruel and malicious kind. Presented as ‘love’ to children who do not have the skills to figure it out.

When I tell young men this is what my wife was saying to me and my kids just 6 months before making the false allegations I have also published? The young men wince. When I tell them that NOT ONE WOMAN was willing to ‘pull this woman into line’? They hang their heads because they realise this is virtually ALL western women. In 3 years? I have not heard of ONE WOMAN taking my ex to task for the crimes she has committed. That women HATE on me for being willing to put my story into the public for the explict purpose of saving young mens lives? THAT tells the young men all they need to know. Women don’t care when young men kill themselves. Not even their mothers care enough to speak out about it. It’s that disgraceful now.

Women are destroying their ‘reputations’. And they hate us men for reporting it to the young men. GOOD! Women are welcome to hate on me all they like. It just reflects poorly on them. The young men see this.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1
Pete November 25, 2010 at 09:34

It’s not true that women don’t love men unconditionally. It’s just that they only love Alphas unconditionally. Betas can never be loved by women at all, only tolerated and used for resources until the woman can attract an Alpha and run off with him.

And even with Alphas, the unconditional love only lasts as long as the man stays sufficiently Alpha. Any lapse in control or show of weakness and the clock starts ticking toward the time of her contemptuous departure.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Andrew November 25, 2010 at 10:25

ATF…you sound really young and full of zeal… like you’ve just come out of a womens’ studies class with your new found knowledge on ‘gender norms’ or something…do you have any real life experience?…for example teaching male and female students for any reasonable period of time?
You can come on here, as long as you realise the men on The Spearhead are no ordinary men…and have heard and debunked all of your kinds of ‘arguments’ like…yesterday.
What’s more, someone like you (in my opinion) has to earn the right to use the ‘F’ word on here…this is for men only, manginas don’t go down too well here.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) : Yes…continue using your ex’s meanderings as an exemplar of her mischevious mind patterns and justifications…
Sheesh…I should put my ex’s 4 page ‘love letter’ on here, that she wrote to me just before the end…so, so similar…

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 22
Rachel November 25, 2010 at 15:45

If you see what Crella wrote you will understand why I said that women don’t love men unconditionally. She does a good job of explaining it. It is true that your children will always be your children though, where if you get a divorce your husband will no longer be your husband, although he will still be the father of your children.

How do you know it’s impossible to love your husband unconditionally? What are you basing that on? Have you ever even tried to love him unconditionally? As a Christian I believe all people are basically selfish and in our fallen state we aren’t capable of true unconditional love. However when a person follows Christ they have a new nature. God loves us unconditionally and he gives his followers the ability to love others unconditionally. So if you’re a Christian you can love your husband unconditionally.

But even if you’re not capable of loving him unconditionally, can you honestly say that you’re loving your husband as much as you can? I can already say definitively the answer is no. After all, you love you children to a greater degree. You say they will always be your children, but why? Sure you share some DNA, but why should you obligate yourself to them because of a little thing like that? You could abandon them, or disown them. Above all you’d better keep your options open. You need to ask yourself, are they fulfilling your needs? Are they giving you the love you deserve? Do they always make you feel happy? And sure they might be great now, but someday they might become hard to deal with. Or perhaps you’ll find being a mom is too confining for your taste. Don’t commit yourself too much.

The truth is you don’t consider your “options” with your kids because you love them so much that it didn’t even cross your mind because you are fully committed to them. You would never think of leaving them. And you know it’s stupid to ask those kinds of questions because you love them selflessly regardless of what you get from it. You know they aren’t there to serve your needs. That’s what love is. It’s not about asking, “What do I get out of it”, but about asking, “What can I give?” It’s about serving, not about being served. Are you thinking of how you can better love your husband? Or are you only thinking of whether of not he loves you to your satisfaction? The only difference between your love for your children and your love for your husband is that your relationship with your children is from the start a one way street. They’re not capable of loving you but you love them anyway. Husbands on the other hand can love you, but why do you punish them for it?

If you really love your kids you should think about what they need from you the most. It isn’t to be showered with love. That comes naturally. Your primary responsibility is to guide them so they will grow up. There are few things sadder than a child in an adult body. You must teach them how to be decent, mature, well-balanced human beings. And nothing affects them more then the example you and your husband set. If you don’t show them what a stable family looks like, who will? Your relationship with your kids is not in competition with your relationship with your husband. You are a family! The two goals are one and the same. You and your husband are a team to raise your children. Your children need to see you both respecting one another, loving one another, and fully committed to one another, no exceptions. As a young child my dad’s job meant he didn’t come home until late at night. But my mom understood that our relationship with our dad was important. She never badmouthed him. And compared to all my friends’ my parents decided to establish a relatively late bedtime. That at least gave us kids some time to spend with him. Years later when I got to my teenage years I started to resent my mother and became very rebellious against her. My Father often served as a mediator. He listened to my side, but in all of my complaints and attempts to get him to see my way he never undermined my mom or said a bad word about her. I think his example more than anything else is what allowed me to grow out of it and taught me how to love my mom. Just because you love your kids doesn’t mean they’ll love you. We are born with selfish ego-centric natures, and we can only overcome that by seeing real love in action. My point is that parents are a team. My mother supported our relationship with our Father and he supported our relationship to her. It’s because my parents loved and supported each other and put that before us kids that my parents were effective in raising us. They modeled selflessness love and commitment and I learned it from them.

I generally think many people get divorced way to impulsively nowadays. There are plenty of case, though, where it might be better for two people to be apart, such as in the case of excessive drinking or philandering are two situations I can think of.

No, those are horrible reasons. Ask yourself this: Would you disown your kids for those reasons? When you get married you promised for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. Either that really means what it says or you were lying. Love isn’t about whether or not someone deserves it; it’s about wanting the best for another person. When you love someone you don’t despise them for their weaknesses or look for faults to hit them over the head with. When they hurt, you hurt because they’re hurting, not because they inconvenienced you. When you love someone you want that person to succeed, to achieve their fullest potential. And when they have a problem like alcoholism you show them tough love. Tough love isn’t about punishing them or being vindictive, the motivation is only to save them from their self-destructive problems. Answer me, how exactly is it better for them if you abandon them in their hour of need?

Love is not some wishy-washy obscure magic feeling. It’s the most real and concrete thing in the world. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. (1 Corinthians 13) This is what real love is. No one is perfect, but just because an archer won’t always hit a bullseye, doesn’t mean they start aiming for anything less.

I know divorced women and I don’t see myself as better than most of them just because I am still married. Many of them didn’t have as good of a husband as I do.
I know I don’t speak for other women, I probably should just say “I”. I like it when other women come on here and give their opinions, btw.

Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not a good person. I know very well we’re not really that different. A few slight changes in our lives and our positions could easily be reversed. I understand how subtle and enticing the lies of our culture are because I came close to believing them myself. But I’ve been blessed by also being exposed to the truth. I’m not trying to condemn you, I’m warning you. I’m trying to save you and your family from the trap of these lies. Perhaps I’m too naive, but I believe most women who have bought into feminism don’t have evil intentions. They want to do what’s best, but how can they know what that is if our culture celebrates immoral and selfish women? What are women supposed to think when taught their whole lives that a healthy woman puts herself first? That under a thin veneer of civility most men are unfeeling animals. And since they’re less feeling we don’t have to feel guilty about being inconsiderate of them. We’re living in a culture that upholds selfish, immature emotion-controlled women and calls them “self-actualized”. A culture that despises humility in general and especially women who’d submit to their husbands. I believe feminism is a lie that only hurts women, perhaps even more than men. Our culture never holds women responsible for their own actions. It caters to our human selfishness and encourages women to give into their most immature impulses. Even many of the men here are indirectly supporting feminism by accepting the lie that women can’t help it and being incapable of not being controlled by our emotions. By excusing women and not holding them responsible they too will be enablers. We’re born with a conscience that points us towards the right thing but that little voice is drowned by our culture telling us their version of the right thing.

But if I thought you were hopeless or that you truly had malicious intentions I wouldn’t be wasting my time trying to help you see reason. I believe you and most women want to do the right thing but that you don’t know what the right thing is. But I know that you’re not a slave to your emotions and that you can overcome the lies of this culture. You have a choice. You can choose to put yourself first and few if any in our culture will ever call you on it. You will be celebrated by the mainstream media and the likes of Oprah, and surrounded by these self-congratulatory voices you can enjoy the self-righteous feeling of being in the moral majority. But there will be consequences. You’ll hurt your children and your husband. But most of all your selfishness will hurt you in the end. On the other hand you can choose what’s hard and live for something greater then just you. Lara, please think about what I’ve said and make the right choice. Whatever you choose you’ll have to live with the consequences.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 11
crella November 25, 2010 at 16:20

Even many of the men here are indirectly supporting feminism by accepting the lie that women can’t help it and being incapable of not being controlled by our emotions. By excusing women and not holding them responsible they too will be enablers.

I’ve had my eyebrows singed pointing this out :-D but I agree. ‘Women are children in adult bodies’ ‘They can’t help it’ ‘They’re completely controlled by their hormones’ etc are excuses. I’ve been told that I must have a higher than normal testosterone level for a woman, and that’s what makes me a good person. If you go that far, you completely ignore and negate the concepts of free will and personal responsibility. You are letting them off the hook.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 11
Loki November 25, 2010 at 17:23

“Even many of the men here are indirectly supporting feminism by accepting the lie that women can’t help it and being incapable of not being controlled by our emotions. By excusing women and not holding them responsible they too will be enablers.” [Rachel, November 25, 2010 at 15:45]

“I’ve had my eyebrows singed pointing this out but I agree. ‘Women are children in adult bodies’ ‘They can’t help it’ ‘They’re completely controlled by their hormones’ etc are excuses. I’ve been told that I must have a higher than normal testosterone level for a woman, and that’s what makes me a good person. If you go that far, you completely ignore and negate the concepts of free will and personal responsibility. You are letting them off the hook.” [crella, November 25, 2010 at 16:20]

Men, let’s take a look at what these two women are trying to sneak into your minds.

They are trying to get you to reject the possibility that most women actually are children in adult bodies who are incapable of not being controlled by their emotions and hormones.

And they are trying to get you to reject it without actually thinking about it.

Notice that they have made no effort to show that this concept is not true for almost all women.

Instead, they are using shaming language, by claiming that accepting this truth, which is continually supported by everyday observations, is the same as supporting feminism.

And, they are claiming that 1) if you think that men should be in charge and that women should be given only as much latitude as they earn on an ongoing basis, then 2) you are also necessarily going to excuse the bad behavior of women and not hold them responsible for anything.

But there is no legitimate reason to put these two ideas together.

Suppose that you have a six year old daughter. Would you allow her to drive your car? If she decided to drive it anyway, would you hold her responsible as a child or as an adult? But there would still be consequences for her, right? And would you then be more careful with your keys?

These women are afraid that men will stop allowing them to drive civilization, or even society.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2
crella November 25, 2010 at 17:42

Suppose that you have a six year old daughter. Would you allow her to drive your car? If she decided to drive it anyway, would you hold her responsible as a child or as an adult?

What does that have to do with grown women?

I was joking about the eyebrow part! It meant that it has generated some very spirited discussions.

I am not trying to ‘sneak’ anything. I’m opening a point for discussion here! I get very tired of people using the ‘women can’t help it’ line….this is justifying women acting like children into their 40′s! I have a code of behavior I live by. Anyone with a brain has principles they live by. Women who don’t are abdicating responsibility and indulging their every whim, like bratty 3-year-olds. For men OR women to say that this is because ‘they can’t help it’ is letting them.

I’d like to see those who say ‘it’s all hormones’ to prove that, that the majority of women are helpless, and that their nasty vindictive behaviour is not their fault…..for I’ve never seen proof of it. I believe these women are making conscious decisions and they’re pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes.

Don’t give them excuses! If they ‘can’t help it’, then discussing what to do about the evil women perpetrate has no purpose….

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10
crella November 26, 2010 at 01:17

you are also necessarily going to excuse the bad behavior of women and not hold them responsible for anything.

Not at all. I would like men to think about the whole ‘they can’t help it, they’re made that way’ line of thinking. Women are completely responsible for what they do.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 9
Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) November 26, 2010 at 07:54

Andrew November 25, 2010 at 10:25
” Sheesh…I should put my ex’s 4 page ‘love letter’ on here, that she wrote to me just before the end…so, so similar…”
Andrew. Maybe you should. I use my ex as an example because young men can often not believe that it is this bad now. Nor do they believe that OTHER women know all about this and SUPPORT it. I choose to inform the young men of how bad it is and to give them a remedy. If they do not use it that is THEIR problem. That women don’t like this? So what? They didn’t care about my children being kidnapped. They have a real hide trying to tell me to shut up when they would not tell a criminal woman to stop committing crimes. Hypocrites. And I am not afraid to say that despite the hatred they then throw at me.

crella November 25, 2010 at 17:42
“What does that have to do with grown women?”
Everything. The example of driving cars is a good one. My mum crashed cars endlessly. My ex wrote off three cars. To the best of my knowledge? None of my father or brothers has yet crashed a car. The 6.5x grey matter disparity between men and women means that women can not process information as quickly. This is why women can not race cars, hit tennis balls hit at them by men or do anything else nearly as well as men that requires vast amounts of processing power of the MALE brain. Women even use the excuse ‘womans intuition’ as the euphemism for ‘I made it up based on nothing’.

I am challenging MEN to refuse to deal with WOMEN who do not declare their lawful status. If women are so ‘grown up’ crella? They would be HAPPY to complete an affidavit outlining their lawful status. Let me know when you have done yours.. ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Omnipitron November 26, 2010 at 08:13

Well said Rachel, I’m not a Christian, but I see the point you are making very clearly. The one thing which always has me scratching my head at women who put their children first is the differences between relationships by blood and by choice. Family, mom, dad, sister, brother, even children are blood, and it seems to me in most cases that one must work in order to destroy the ties between blood relatives.

One must actively ignore, berate, and denigrate their family for quite some time in order to alienate them. However, consider friends and spouses, relationships by choice, and how they differ. It seems to me that one can let these relationships die pretty quickly if action isn’t taken. As for negative behavior, berate and ignore your friends and see how long they last with you.

This is why it never makes sense to me to place your children, blood and people you would have to work to alienate, as opposed to your spouse, whom you will have to constantly work NOT to alienate. Considering the best thing a parent can do for their children is provide a healthy happy home, what are the chances this is going to happen if Children come first and Daddy only when there is remaining time?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Lara November 26, 2010 at 09:54

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 17
Lara November 26, 2010 at 10:03

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 16
Lara November 26, 2010 at 10:08

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 20
Loki November 26, 2010 at 13:23

Crella and Rachel,

I think that we disagree mostly about the starting point, and whether women should ever be allowed autonomous authority.

Because of the unambiguous way that most women have behaved over the past several decades, and because most women refuse to hold other women accountable for anything, all women must start out in a sandbox, where they cannot do any real damage.

From that starting point, all women would be allowed to earn a place in the adult world, but they would also be required to maintain it on an ongoing basis.

Revert to childish behavior, and it’s back to the sandbox.

If you two are as you have described yourselves, then your contributions would be welcomed and your position in the adult world would be continuous.

I started expecting all women to behave as you also think that they should behave. It took me a long time to come to my current position because I really, really wanted a rational, reliable, loyal, eager and loving partner.

Fool me once, shame on you . . . Fool me a thousand times and you create a man who will never again rely on you completely, or leave you unsupervised where you can do damage.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
W.F. Price November 26, 2010 at 14:15

Rachel,
My friend is leaving her husband of many years because of his drinking problem. He has since stopped drinking and is trying to change. She says she has lost too much respect for him

-Lara

That means the drinking is just an excuse she’s using. If he quit for her, and she’s still leaving, then it’s something else. Hell, he might have been drinking just to be able to tolerate the woman. I hope he’s got some friends who are standing up for him — he’ll be better off with such a callous, lousy excuse for a wife, but it will be hard for him for a while.

I tell my friends that if their wives start criticizing them rather than expressing concern, it’s time to start looking forward to life as a free man. I think that’s the one thing men have to work hard to understand — they should never put up with criticism from a wife or lover. Concern is an entirely different matter.

For example, if a woman says: “honey, maybe you should drink less — I’m a worried about your health,” that’s one thing, but if she says “all you do is drink when you get home, am I going to have to live with an alcoholic?” then it’s time to get rid of her, whether she’s right or not, because she isn’t trying to help, but rather setting the stage for doing something nasty.

The funny thing is that some of my friends’ marriages seem to have been saved by my advice, because the wives catch on after they notice the attitude change my buddies experience after a good conversation with me, and they adjust their behavior accordingly.

Rachel November 27, 2010 at 14:12

They are trying to get you to reject the possibility that most women actually are children in adult bodies who are incapable of not being controlled by their emotions and hormones.

I’m not rejecting that. Many women are children in adult bodies. What I am rejecting is the idea that this is a product of their nature and therefore immutable. All of us start off as selfish ego-centric children and some people mature, others don’t. The difference is more girls grow into women without ever maturing because they are sheltered from consequences, catered to when they act selfish rather than being called on it, and are on the whole, for all intents and purposes, indoctrinated into believing their immaturity is normal, acceptable adult behavior. Men aren’t sheltered from consequences or given much of anything by our society. The gender disparity is something most of the men here are very aware of. As is the immaturity of most Western Women. What I’m saying is that these things aren’t exactly coincidences. The result of this is that most men are grounded in the hard realities of life, while a lot of women today are still caught in a naive and in some areas immature, childlike worldview.

Loki, my intentions in putting that remark in my previous response was not to shame anyone. If it came across that way I apologize. My reasoning was two fold, first because my whole argument with Lara was that she has a choice and can change her behavior. I was objecting to her original statements that women can’t help it. I feel this is a complete lie. But after she made her statements no one really called her on this, and a few comments only reinforced her faulty beliefs. I called it the lie it was and asked Lara to see that either she was lying out of ignorance, in which case I showed her the unreasonableness of her statements and asked her to reflect on her beliefs, or that she was lying to make herself feel less culpable. Above all I wanted Lara to think for herself and not just blindly accept anything she’s told, even if it’s by those who support the MRM. Even if it’s by me.

My second reason was because I’m new, and a female which only means people will naturally be more suspicious of me and my intentions. I didn’t want to come across as just trying to stir up problems. I thought within the context of my whole argument my meaning would be more clear and help people consider their own beliefs. I generally try to make it clear these are my thoughts and if someone disagrees I’m open to discussing them. Just as I am now.

However it comes down to is this, either Lara was right in her original statement and women can’t help it, or she was wrong and women have a choice. If she was right and it’s just female nature then there’s not much hope. You can say that feminism is detrimental to society, but you can’t say women are acting bad or call them selfish; anymore than you can call the rotation of the sun bad or call gravity selfish. We can’t be judged by moral standards because we have no choice. Our nature is what it is.

However, this isn’t what I was taught. I was taught that I am responsibility for my own actions and have to accept the consequences. The Bible holds women to accountability the same as it holds men. Women are given specific commands that apply just to them, such as to honor their husbands or to dress modestly. To not follow these commands is a choice to disobey God. I believe I have a choice. And I believe all women have a choice. But if you want to argue about this go ahead and make your case. I’ll listen.

I started expecting all women to behave as you also think that they should behave. It took me a long time to come to my current position because I really, really wanted a rational, reliable, loyal, eager and loving partner.

I understand why you think this way and I sympathize with your position, but I don’t think most men are fully aware of just how poisonous our current culture is to women. There are many factors to take into account to help understand why so many women in our culture are like they are. As I said, feminism hurts women, perhaps even more than men.

Firstly, psychology studies on what happens to people when one group is discriminated against and another group is treated special conclusively show that it has a huge impact on behavior and attitudes. People who are treated superior, even if it’s for something as silly as eye color start to believe they are superior. Just take a look at this classroom experiment on discrimination. Replace racist with sexist and you get the idea. Some of the behaviors of the “superior” group seem to parallel those of some women in our culture almost exactly.

Most of what women are told about men is either completely exaggerated or mischaracterized. Male pride is commonly portrayed in the media something childish and immature. Simple ego. Most gender differences beyond the obvious are almost never taught in school or portrayed realistically by media. So much so that anything that does portray it more realistically is often met with cries of sexism. It doesn’t correspond with their sense of reality, but their sense of reality is what’s wrong. For instance, physical advantages of men over women are almost never portrayed realistically on tv. A lot of women are completely unaware how great these differences are, or think that they can be overcome with a little training. I didn’t even start to realize this until I was in my mid-teens. And tying in with this, most women are under the illusion that the world is a safe, controlled place. Good conquers evil. That’s how it works in the movies. If they’re hurt it means someone else didn’t do their job. This is all part of being sheltered from reality and our culture’s victim morality. Men are less emotional sometimes gets translated subconsciously to men feel less than women. And following that line of reasoning since they feel less we don’t feel as guilty about being inconsiderate to them.

A lot of this ties in with the media. I think the general belief is that the slant in the media is merely a product of feminism. I would argue it’s more like an indoctrination of feminism. I grew up quite sheltered, but even I accepted certain feminist beliefs before reflecting on them and seeing through them. Most people think TV reflects reality, when in fact TV is a reflection of someone’s opinion of reality. It took me a long time to realize this. People learn about reality through experience and tv exposes us to experiences we might not otherwise have. TV allows people to peek at the lives of men and women and how they behave in certain situations and we assume they are acting normal. The problem is that all the situations and outcomes are controlled. People learn to judge morality based on a soundtrack. To appreciate this let me go through just two examples.

Zack and Cody (children’s show on Disney) I happened to watch part of an episode the other week. The subplot centered around the basketball team, but the main story focused on the the relationship between Zack and the resident tomboyish girl. Zack accidentally insinuates she’s not really a girl and she gets angry. So, at the urging of his friends worried about how this could hurt the team, Zack asks her out. When she arrives he is immediately star struck. They both have a good time until Zack accidentally lets slip that he only asked her because the other boys made him. How does she react? She smashes the desert on his head and leaves in a fury. The rest of the plot goes along the lines of Zack feeling bad and the girl refusing to talk to him. She passes him the ball during the game, but she keeps taking digs at him when because he isn’t playing well. Eventually he manages to apologize and she forgives him. All is well and they win the game. Happily ever after. But notice her behavior is never confronted. According to the morality of the show she was completely in the right because Zack was insensitive. No matter how immature she acted, Zack hurt her first so she’s “the victim.” Not one word to chastise her for acting immature. But try to point this out most people say that it was just done for comedy/just a kids show.

Bride Wars (Chic flick that recently came out) – Two girls who’ve been best friends from childhood accidentally have their weddings scheduled on the same day. So they very maturely talk it out and come to a reasonable compromise. Just kidding. They proceed to find ever-childish ways to sabotage the other and tear their relationship apart. Now I should tell you about their fiancés. Guy number one is completely attentive to the wedding planning (aww, how sweet, right?). He gives in to whatever she wants, like when she demands he propose to her because her friend had just gotten engaged. And no matter how bad his future wife acts he gives her nothing but his full support and always indulges her (mis)behavior. In other words, he’s whipped and wrapped around her finger. Now guy number two is a real example of how evil most men are. Why? He has the audacity to suggest his wife is acting immature. And if that’s not enough to convince you of his villainy, he looks bored during all the wedding planning. So guess which relationship is good, and which one is unhealthy? Guess which woman decides to call her wedding off? It ends with some half-baked moral about being oneself and women sticking with their friends. Right. Because obviously the one guy was being controlling for expecting the woman to behave maturely. Can you tell how much I loath this movie? I actually looked for reviews that would tear it apart just to feel better. I found only one. The only positive thing I can say is that at least the one guy didn’t have to marry someone like her. She marries the brother of the first girl. So see? She got her happily ever after too! Her choice was rewarded because she did the right thing. Just try to explain exactly what’s wrong with this scenario and most people will either not understand, or shrug and tell you it’s just a comedy.

These are just two examples from the top of my head, and they’re mild. Don’t be fooled by the comedy label. It’s been known for a long time that people become much more suggestible to ideas when humor is used. As for Zack and Cody being a just a kids show, just try to explain to me why it being a kids show justifies teaching bad character when it is children who are the most impressionable people of our society? On the other hand, try to find any movie, especially movies aimed at women that doesn’t condone girls or women acting immature. If a woman does act even slightly more mature when a guy is in the wrong (The guy is always in the wrong) she’s hailed as a martyr. Girls who grow up watching these moves believe this is how women act. However books and shows from older times more often than not contained female characters acting mature and immature women being seen for what they are. Pride and Prejudice is a good example. Though I don’t doubt that if it were written today Lydia would be the heroine.

Lastly, and this is probably the most important point, is our culture’s view of love. Few women get divorced thinking about trading up for someone RICHER or because they’re thinking about money. I suspect pointing this out to your average woman will only make her tell you that not everything is about money. A woman will say it’s because they’re no longer in love. However, the problem is the word love is a misnomer. Love in our culture is often seen as a indefinable, spiritual, magical, mystical thing. Because it’s described such most women have developed only a hazy idea of what is meant by the word, only that its the most important thing relationships. But get rid of all the romantic ideology and flowery language and you’ll realize that what our culture means when it says love, is how one feels. This is a completely different definition to the one given in the Bible. The problem with feelings is that they are relative. Feelings are a product of one’s circumstances and experiences. And where do good experiences come from? Nice clothes make people feel good. Nice vacations can make people feel good. Good homes can make people feel good. Doing things just for fun makes people feel good. This is why so many women actually do go for richer guys, though few of them are the wealth, but because of good experiences. She has more fun experiences with him and therefore she’s in love. A poorer person can’t afford a to provide as much ease. If you feel stressed about just getting by you’re not going to feel very good. Therefore based on the belief that love is something you feel and she’s not feeling the same excitement or fun she believes something is wrong. Love that is determined by feelings is a love that will be at its core completely self-centered. Many women don’t realize this. It’s what we’ve been taught are whole life. Women are told they need to “follow their heart.” In other words, follow their emotions. Disney and cheesy children’s movies pound this into our heads from childhood. And chic flicks, Oprah, and trashy magazines continue it in adulthood. This isn’t to say there aren’t bad women out there who genuinely want to steal money and hurt men. But most women aren’t like that.

So you see women have a lot to deal with in order to overcome these lies. But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible, especially if people are willing to challenge this worldview. We need to point out faulty logic and fuzzy thinking. People also try to do what they think is right based their beliefs. This should be self-evident. But it’s next to impossible to see the illogic of one’s own beliefs unless someone challenges you by pointing it out. However this needs to be done without any malice or hatred. Men who’ve had to deal with a women who loves to be right should know how annoying it is. Someone who is right, and who likes to leverage it over others will only cause resentment and people will often reject the truth simply as a matter of principle. What I’m trying to say is that Feminist aren’t the enemy, but their beliefs are. Feminist whether men or women shouldn’t be hated, but their beliefs should. IF those of us who see the truth really want to change things we need to, as the Bible says, speak the truth in love. Truth is that which is logical and corresponds to reality. Love is the compassion we should feel for others. Love isn’t arrogant and doesn’t seek to hurt others. Love is wanting the best for others. It wants people to overcome their failings and become better people for their own sake. This is the only way as I see it for us to change our culture.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 8
Lara November 27, 2010 at 14:29

@Rachel
“Many women are children in adult bodies.”

There is a lot of truth in that statement, unfortunately.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 13
Lara November 27, 2010 at 14:42

Rachel,
My son watches Zack and Cody and the boys are weak, subservient to girls and dorky and the girls are cool, strong and in charge. It is so annoying. I don’t know why more shows can’t portray girls and women in a more realistic and less positive light.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14
Lara November 27, 2010 at 14:51

I was just talking to a women who works at a hair salon with some women in their 20s and she said they often go out partying while their husbands or boyfriends stay home with their children. I’m starting to think men in their 20s are more mature than the women the same age.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 11
Rachel November 27, 2010 at 23:08

This is why it never makes sense to me to place your children, blood and people you would have to work to alienate, as opposed to your spouse, whom you will have to constantly work NOT to alienate. Considering the best thing a parent can do for their children is provide a healthy happy home, what are the chances this is going to happen if Children come first and Daddy only when there is remaining time?

This is a very good argument, I agree with you.

The problem starts because women hear from a young age that a “good” mother puts her kids first. On the surface the reasoning makes sense. Children are helpless, they need us. Whereas husbands are adults, so they can get by with less. Shouldn’t those who need more be helped more? It also feeds our human selfishness; we like to be needed. While at the same time it seems very noble and selfless. This belief becomes accepted by many women without deeper thought just by cultural osmosis. Actually it’s a self-focused idea. By putting the mother/child relationship on a pedestal it undermines the concept of a family. It ignores all other relationships that make up the very structure of the family. In fact the very question: “Which is more important, your husband or your child?” is a false dichotomy. It really isn’t a case of either/or. Supporting one’s husband does not equal ignoring the relationship between mother and child. The husband/wife are to be partners in raising their child. One needs to look at the bigger picture and what’s best for the family as a whole.

For a lot of people these ideas are never challenged, which is all the more reason why we need to challenge them whenever possible. Even if ideas are resisted at first, just by calling something like this into question forces people to think about it and challenge their own beliefs. Often we don’t know the impact our words have.

I’m not planning on getting a divorce. My marriage is fine, besides I know everyone in my family, his family and all our friends would blame me anyway.

At some point no one who gets divorced planned to. From what I’ve seen in your other posts you have a good husband. You should cherish him. I’m very sorry to hear about your friend’s pending divorce. In a situation like that there needs to be forgiveness. And forgiveness is a very difficult thing to do. The only thing I can do is pray for them.

Disney tries to be as uncontroversial as possible. This means they will always tend to adopt the morality that is most accepted by our society. They’re not concerned about what is actually right.

The funny thing is that some of my friends’ marriages seem to have been saved by my advice, because the wives catch on after they notice the attitude change my buddies experience after a good conversation with me, and they adjust their behavior accordingly.

I don’t think it’s that odd. If someone rewards a behavior they don’t like why would that person change it? Punish that behavior and people will change.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8
djc November 29, 2010 at 09:42

The 1st paragraph of this says it all. It didn’t take my ex very long to shack up with a much younger man who she got tired of after about a year. Now she’s all alone, and I don’t want her back. It’s ironic that Feminism actually freed ME. Ha ha ha….I love it!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
divorcejace November 30, 2010 at 03:58

“but in most of these cases the wife has plenty of problems herself that likely won’t be entirely solved by divorce.”

divorce should never be taken as a he /she equality problem..we all have our differences as couples, women have different problems from men too, but certainly, divorce is not just a feminist issue..

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 9
Ploppy January 8, 2011 at 07:04

“As for the matter of physically abusive husbands, they do exist, but in most of these cases the wife has plenty of problems herself that likely won’t be entirely solved by divorce. ..objectively speaking, their lives are usually worse after they take the plunge and wreck their families.”

Yes, very “objectively” written. Obviously without any bias or feelings involved. Because you say so.
Yes of course, women married to physically abusive husbands are to blame for the husband’s abuse (“feminism” made him do it, right?) and they (and “feminism”, naturally) are to blame for “wrecking their families” by divorcing the abusive husband (stupid, selfish, lazy bints that they are). Why should abusive husbands take any responsiblity for knocking their wives around when we can easily blame “feminism” and the woman? Hallelujah & amen, brother, of course men are always either completely in the right or have been made to do bad things by “feminism”, and women are always bad and wrong. Ah, the empowerment that comes with having such nice, tidy, simplistic beliefs. Not only for extreme 1970s feminism, no, women-hating men can do it too! Equality in bigotry! Hooray!

“feminism is, above all, concerned with the exercise of female sexuality and maximizing the power it confers. ”
Of course, that’s why there are so many feminist porn sites around. Have a little attempt at real objectivity, by at least considering the possiblity that these conspiracy theories about “feminism”s concerns aren’t coming from fears on the part of heterosexual men of the power that men voluntarily hand over to women when sex comes into play. (Not, of course, that in a forum like this, males are likely to even think about taking responsibility for their own choices & behavior – it’s so much easier to blame “feminism” and women.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Matteo May 19, 2011 at 12:25

OK guys… I read this entire blog and I share your frustration with women. However; rather than waste your life away hating women it would be better to understand them.

Women do not mature all the way emotionally until much later in life. Just as men take longer to become responsible and go through a phase where they are hopelessly lazy, women are subjected to high levels of hormones that make them irrational until their mid 40s. It’s not their fault and you have to view a woman as an additional child. You excuse her for her irrational behavior the same way you would a child and you try to please them because they give you something in return. They bring sex, and sweetness, and devotion when they feel loved.

As men it is our job to pamper her and treat her like a spoiled princess, like you would an adored daughter. A woman will love a man as deeply as a man loves a woman, but to her, it is not about looks or sex, and its not about money, its about chivalry. Women are drawn to gallantry. They want to believe that their man is of special character and intellect, better than others, that he is noble, strong, and superior. The idea of average character and weakness is a turn off to women, just like becoming fat is a turn off for men. So men… are you fat to her?

Accept that women are irrational, but don’t hate them for this, find in them what is beautiful. Shape yourself to address her innate psychological requirements. Men are dogs because they value beauty above all else. I’m a man and I accept this. Women are dogs because they want to be spoiled and put on a pedastool. They desire power and strength and men without it are undesirable.

Begin to view yourself as the father of the family, the father of the children and the father of the wife. Do not treat her as an intellectual equal, she doesn’t want to talk about the Dow Jones or peace in Israel,… treat her as your oldest child and lavish her with affection, attention, surprises and gifts. Know that you are her superior and that you defer to her as a means of securing sex and tranquility. Women are sexy fun creatures, but there is a price you must be willing to pay to keep one. They are not MEN and will not value any of the shit you value and will not be grateful for giving them the things that you need and want.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

Leave a Comment

{ 2 trackbacks }

Previous post:

Next post: