The Day I Got The Juan Williams Treatment: A Wake-Up Call To Bloggers Everywhere

by Obsidian on November 4, 2010

We all have particular dates on the calendar that mark watershed moments in our lives. For me, one of those dates is Wed, Nov 3, 2010. Why this date and not say, the date I founded my blog, The Obsidian Files – which had just celebrated one year old on Halloween?

Because, more than the founding of my blog, it was the day that it was taken down, that looms the largest for me. And it’s a date others reading along should do well to remember.

Because it’s a date that follows on the heels of another important date for the body politic – it was barely two weeks after veteran journalist and avowed Liberal Juan Williams, was summarily fired from his job of more than a decade – an NPR commentator – for daring to speak his mind and do so with those on the Right. There’s a great deal of similarity between Williams and myself — we both do what we love, which is to write and to give our take on the great issues of our time. To be sure, he’s been at it a lot longer than myself, and he gets paid for what he does to boot, something I don’t mind, because I never set out to do this blogging thing to make money (although that just might change, if my guess is right…). But perhaps the biggest thing we both have in common, is that we’re both Black Men.

But not only are we both Black Men, we’re supposed to fit into some kind of pre-defined box; we all know the drill by now. Black Men aren’t supposed to think for themselves. They’re supposed to be for Leftist causes and issues, come hell or high water – and if we don’t, if we question them, on any level whatsoever, then we’re “Juan Williams’d” – meaning thrown under the bus, tossed overboard, kicked to the curb. You get the idea.

Williams has said, in the days following his firing by NPR, that a lot of his assumptions came tumbling down — he was a Liberal because he thought that Liberals were tolerant, open minded folk. He found out the hard way – and I’m quoting him now – that this assumption simply wasn’t true, and that if anything, it was those on the Right, who had proven to be far and away more tolerant. he ought to know, after all, he sat among the Rightest of the Right, for years. And they weren’t the ones who cast him out like a leper. It was NPR — bastion of Leftwing points of view.

The parallel for me could not have been more striking, for it wasn’t rabid, raving, foaming at the mouth White racists in the form of “HBDers” storming the WordPress gates and clamoring for my head on a platter, it was my own “people”, in the form of Black Women, who did it. The very same Black Women, I would bet a dollar to a donut, who consider themselves progressive, open minded tolerant and “Liberal.” The same Black Women who have pulled the lever for the “D” column in virtually every election since they could vote. The same Black Women who claim to be for the rights of the minority — except “minorities” they don’t like. Like Brothas who speak their minds for example, about issues that actually matter. What are those issues, Obsidian? Sexual Politics, that’s what.

Earlier this year, during my tenure at the online Men’s magazine The Spearhead, I ran into a buzzsaw of contention for merely pointing out some things about my White brothers than they didn’t like. a veritable shitstorm was started, much gnashing of teeth, this, that… But I wasn’t banned or “fired” from The Spearhead, and no one called for my blog to be taken down. Those who have known me for any length of time know that I’ve had epic battles with many on the HBD side of the ledger – again, no one called for my voice to be shutdown. True, I’ve been more or less banned from participating at certain blogs; but that’s a far cry different from wanting to shut another person’s blog down.

That only happened when Women, in this case they happened to be Black, did so.

And, let’s be clear as to what kind of Black Women I’m talking about, lest I be accused of being a “misogynist” much in the way Williams was accused of being an “Islamophobe” – I’m not talking about the everyday Sista out there just trying to get by and live her life. I’m talking about Sistas who have chosen to enter into the public square of opinion and debate and attempt to foist their views onto the rest of us, without challenge or critique – then, when such a thing happens, which is inevitable, they want to suddenly revert from “strong, independent Women” to Damsels in Distress, pillorying you with all manner of ad hominem assaults in the process. In other words, these Sistas – and again I’m talking about bloggers and writers who have chosen to make it their life’s work to be advocates for certain points of view, and in some cases GET PAID FOR IT, want to have it both ways. They want to go into the public square, get up on the soapbox and say what they want without a challenge of any kind. And when they are challenged, when their views are shown to be proven false, when they’re exposed as the phonies and frauds that they are, they then want to shut you down after attempting to paint you as a “misogynist” or a “racist” or a “stalker” or whatever else they can think of. Personally, it’s Black Women like these that are doing grave harm to Black America, and I say that without any hint of hyperbole; this is not purple prose I’m going into here.

For WordPress’s part, they are no better than NPR in my view, hang on, actually, they are worse – at least Juan Williams got a late night phonecall. I didn’t even get an email from WP. I was informed by others that my blog was gone. Ask me what I think of WordPress’ commitment to freedom of speech.

Being born under the Sign of the Archer, every minute of every day is a “teachable moment,” and I had been reflecting on aspects of daily life long before that phrase became fashionable. Unlike so many others have been indoctrinated to do, my approach is to look at the world around me, and ask “wassup wit dat” and look for answers to explain it rather than come to the table with preconceived notions already in my head, and try to make what I see fit those “facts.” I’ve found personally that such an approach, if nothing else, simply doesn’t work. And it’s served me well.

Which is more a pressing concern for our body politic – racism, or feminism? For me, the answer couldn’t be cleearer. After all, it wasn’t hooded Klansmen, or HBDers, or Tea Partiers, or the Rotary Club armed to the teeth with The Bell Curve, who stormed the WordPress gates. It was those who consider themselves “progressive” and who all have vaginas, who did it. And they also just so happen to be Black.

I am hoping that incidents like this will finally unite the much-beleagured “Men’s Movement”; fellas, we have much bigger fish to fry here. And if we let differences in skin tone continue to divide us, then it will be as I’ve said in one of my final WordPress blog posts the other day, about why Black Men vote the way they do, with so very little to show for it, we will have brought it on ourselves, and will have no one to blame, but ourselves.

You have an ally in me, brothers. It’s up to you, if you want to take a Black hand in friendship.

Many of you claim to be at least moderately to the Right. If that’s true, then follow Fox News’ example, not just over the past few weeks, but the past decade, because that’s how long Juan Williams has been there. If you’re truly serious about moving the ball forward, join with Brothas like me who are finding their voice and telling it like it TIZ. it isn’t my skintone or my supposed “genetic inheritance” that’s the problem. The problem comes from a much more pernicious source, and we all know it. And we will never mount an effective counterstrike if we remain divided. Do not let it twist your mind, gentlemen – if it can happen to me, it can happen to you.

Lastly, as we all know, it was a happy ending for Juan Williams — his firing by NPR led not only to a serious pay raise, but a full-on platform to air his views, uncensored and uncut. I think the same will be true for me — I think I’m on the cusp of something. Because when people mobilize to have your voice shut down, that means that not only have you struck a raw nerve, but that there’s something there, and you need to cultivate that.

I want to thank all the well-wishers for coming out in support of me, online and especially off, and for all their help in assisting me in restoring key back postings of mine. I expect to have everything back up and running within a week or two. And when I do, it’s no more Mr. Nice Guy. Now, it’s ON.

Lemme tell you what I really think…

More to come – count on it

Now adjourn your asses…

The Obsidian obsidianraw.bravenet.com

{ 229 comments… read them below or add one }

E. Steven Berkimer November 4, 2010 at 06:51

Obisdian,

Consider that hand extended, at least from me. That shining hypocrisy of silencing dissent, is, as we are well aware, one of the central tenants of the feminist sphere.

Good luck with your new endeavour.

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E. Steven Berkimer November 4, 2010 at 06:53

looks like the new site isn’t up yet. Will you be able to transfer your work from wordpress? or is that lost at this point?

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by_the_sword November 4, 2010 at 07:24

I am glad to see that you are not out of the game.

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Philip November 4, 2010 at 07:26

I for one have no problem shaking a black mans hand and making him feel welcome.
My problem is people who wear there minority position like a badge of honor or have a chip on there shoulder. People like that just love to make every one uncomfortable, taking every opportunity to remind those around that there different or better.
So Obsidian you are welcome to blend in and contribute with us men

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Gx1080 November 4, 2010 at 07:34

Ok, first the Google AdSense purge and then we see blogs themselves dropping like flies. I have to wonder who is pulling strings in the tech companies or if it’s simple Left fanatism. My money is on the former.

Also, despite our diverging opinions on several issues, I didn’t want this. Just saying it outloud.

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Zammo November 4, 2010 at 07:42

I’m not surprised you were shut down as the result of left-leaning activists. It’s standard operating procedure to simply shut down any type of reasonable debate rather than engage in meaningful discussion.

“You’re wrong, you offended me, your voice must be stifled.”

Being “offended” is a thoroughly lame (yeah, I used an ableist word, fuck you) response.

Get your old stuff back if you can!

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Uncle Elmer November 4, 2010 at 08:03

Welcome back, Sucka. Sorry to hear your blog was removed. That sort of thing infuriates me.

As a fairly liberal guy I too have had the experience of realizing that many conservative people are in fact, more open-minded and generous than they are caricatured to be. Often much less pretentious as well.

Many white liberals have strange notions about black folks, and when they actually encounter large numbers of them are aghast at their attitudes. Seething racism usually follows, then mellows after the initial shock.

We also have a real problem in our culture in that everyone is ready to jump on the soapbox and start shouting. We are a nation of individualists always clamoring for our “rights”. We are taught to “stick to our guns” and stand up against injustice. Few are taught to listen and negotiate.

After much travel overseas I realized that many of us are, sadly, assholes. A lot of good people in the U.S. but our sanctimony sometimes gets the better of us.

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Uncle Elmer November 4, 2010 at 08:12

An interesting book is “Redneck Manifesto” by Jim Goad (I think).

He makes the observation that you will find more blacks in a redneck bar than in a yuppie bar.

While we’re at it, “They Were White and They Were Slaves” by Michael Hoffman is worth reading :

http://www.solargeneral.com/library/they-were-slaves.pdf

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misterb November 4, 2010 at 08:30

Well Obsidian, I hate to say this. A few guys from this had warned you. Yet you attacked them. Accusing them of being racist.

Quit bashing your fellow men on the false assumption on race. or some other bullshit.

There’s an old saying, women will tire of one peacock and go for another.

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Scattered November 4, 2010 at 08:41

The vibe I get from this article is “Although I think you guys are kinda racist lets be friends”.

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meistergedanken November 4, 2010 at 08:42

Was going to comment on your new blog this morning, but this is more convenient. I’m glad you’ve seen the light, or rather became reacquainted with a stark truth: men – even the white ones you not infrequently decry – will rally to your defense, but feminists will never do this (and furthermore, will actively harm you). Why? Because we have principles, dammit.

Example: Chuck Ross, who you’ve had several dust-ups with, has a post supportive of you today. I feel the same way; yeah, 80% of your posts are race-based (if not race-obsessed) and thus not my cup of tea, but you have your own thing going on and have something to say, and you say it in a unique voice.

It is a fine thing that you are still a part of this men’s community here. Just don’t forget [again] who your brothers-in-arms are. Excuse me, “brothas-in-arms”. Now adjourn your ass!

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misterb November 4, 2010 at 08:42

Actually I expected supremacist attitudes from people of different backgrounds and colours. Not to mention thin skinned people who are itching to start a fight.

The whole idea of race is meant to degrade fellow humanity.

I noted that white dudes and some other individual of another back ground, do often get falsely accused of being racist, by a black man. Why? Either to just to shut him up, or to destroy him completely.

There are supremacists in homosexual persuasion movement, feminist groups, black communities, Latino communities.

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GS Jockey November 4, 2010 at 08:55

Here, Here, Obsidian. Well said, and I’m glad to see you here again as I haven’t seen a post from you in a while.

As for me, I have long believed that we need to unite as MEN in our cause, because division along racial lines (or any other lines) is counterproductive. And I have attempted to walk-the-walk through mentorship of young men who need it. An example: many of you know I am in the US Air Force, and last Spring I became acquainted with a young man at my overseas base, early to mid-twenties, who I thought was a classic member of the demographic we need to reach. In casual conversation, I found out he was feeling a bit of pressure from back in his home state to get married, so I carefully approached him and broached some Men’s issues with him. The young man was of a junior rank and not in my chain of command and therefore was an airman whose personal life was frankly none of my business. But I told him there were issues he should be aware of about relationships with women, and he was receptive. So I introduced him to The Spearhead. I told him to read it every day for thirty days, and then make up his own mind. I also made him a bet that he would remember that date—because in hindsight he would agree that hearing about these issues would change his perspective and his life.

This young man was voracious in his curiosity; he soaked it all up like a sponge, and sought me out and thanked me later. My point is that this fellow was a stranger to me when I first ran across him—all I saw was the exterior image of a razor-sharp airman who was smart as hell—but beyond that, I saw a young MAN who could probably benefit from some non-pushy advice. I think it’s important to offer mentorship to the young men who follow us…even when they are a young BLACK man as this one was. Rather than finding a racial divide in which a young Black airman would presumably have nothing in common with a lily-White officer, once you open the channels of communications you find out that you are both merely men just trying to get by like everyone else—and with similar feelings and challenges and experiences and perspectives to share.

We need to remember our common denominator is that we are all men and we are all in this together. Don’t get distracted by the chaff of being of different races.

VR,

GS Jockey

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tweell November 4, 2010 at 08:57

Sorry about the WordPress banhammer. I’m glad you’re not letting that quiet your voice. Good luck with getting your work back from them, and keep posting – you’re obviously doing something right.

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SingleDad November 4, 2010 at 09:05

Welcome aboard. Remember, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. We need strong male voices, you have proven you can piss them off be targeted and survive. This gives you tremendous power, you no longer fear them.

Your place is here with people who share you troubles.

As far as the black/white thing. I think that The Spearhead is talking more about the issues facing black men than anywhere else I can see.

An educational system that fails boys of all races, the criminalization of men of all colors, and the criminalization of heterosexuality which also know no color.

Haven’t we been pretty pissed off that that crazy viking chick popped that world famous golfer in the mouth with a 4 iron? Well nobody else seems to care.

But let’s be real. Black men seem to go to the front of the line with regard to those wanting to punish us people with penise’s.

Most discourse is relating to the black community is controlled by liberal white men and black women who, it seems to me, are one or two generations ahead of the trend and are hating black men and men in general quite alot.

The damage done by women has been disproportionatly affecting young black men, and the numbers speak for themselves.

We deal with issues of our crazy penal industrial system, also a prime concern for black men.

So welcome aboard and bring your experiences as a black man in America to the table.

But remember, I think here we try leave our national origin, race, disablities, political affliations and sexual preferences at the door and are men first.

It seems that as goes the black community, soon after follows the white community.

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Rebel November 4, 2010 at 09:09

It really sucks to have one`s blog taken down. It`s frustrating. But frustration can give you the energy and the resolve you need to take the fight on higher grounds.

Some say that the pen is mightier than the sword.

I have failed at every attempt I made to believe that.

The sword is the great equalizer, the pacifier, the ultimate judge, the most efficient problem solver.

Words are cheap. They lead nowhere.

The French revolution began with a song. (words). And then the real thing took place: guns spoke. They put an end to slavery.

That`s the story History teaches us. Freedom is taken, not given.

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Obsidian November 4, 2010 at 09:11

Hey fellas,
Thanks so much for all the comments. I deeply appreciate it.

Me and Welmer are trying to put our heads together to see what we can do about me getting fully back up and running again – sadly, it seems the current platform I’ve chosen isn’t too WP friendly.

Back the good news is that I’ve been able to retrieve all my conent on a WP “rss” type file. I think they call it a WXR file, or something like that. I’ve downloaded it to my computer and backed it up on my terrabyte-big portable drive. So, I at least have that. Thank God.

So the only thing is getting me back and running on a blog that supports importing WP back posts, etc. Thus far, that’s been slowgoing. I may have to just outright buy a domain and go that route, assuming I’ll be able to upload my WP stuff. We’ll see.

In the meantime though, I suppose I’ll try to maintain an internet presence via the little blog-substitute I have, and, if Welmer will have me, I suppose I can resume my regular columns here at The Spearhead. Just goes to show how life unfolds, doesn’t it?

Thanks again!

O.

Licorne Negro November 4, 2010 at 09:33

Obsidian, you are great.
But I have to say that you play the racism card too much.
No, I don’t telling you to only speak about some amorphous and colorless MRA. Speak about your race and racial problems.
But remember that you, as well as everyone here, are human. And white people are not just remorseless racist monsters.
Whites are not perfect, and they made some very big mistakes in the past (and even in the present). But that’s because they are human. And the same goes for everyone else.

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Simon November 4, 2010 at 09:55

Sorry to hear the sisters got at you bruh. I’m gonna ask just to be certain, how do you know it was the sister who did the deed? I’m ignorant to how this all works.

Anyway, I read your last post when you left here and I sought you out and read a lot of your blog and as a black man I agree with a lot of the things you say. Some I don’t. THat’s the beauty of being a damn man. You get to make up your own mind. But I do agree that as black men we are demonized regardless for what we do, if you stay on the liberal plantation, your a lackey, if you go for what you believe your a TOM and sellout. If you fail to date whales and babymamas your stuck up or gay, and if you dare call women on there BS then all the shaming tactics and attacks come out. Since there is no way to win, I choose not to play. I’m a ghost. I raise my daughter, I go to my jobs, I stay out of black public life, I censor myself on facebook. I just don’t participate in the black community because my views are at odds with most of it.

The few men in my local community who are strong enough and in positions to change the menality won’t. They are too happy with the status quo and being at the top of the pile. They dare not speak the truth. Especially preachers, many of which are on the downlow or pander to their female audience. When is the last time you heard a black preacher tell a woman it’s her job to submit to her husband or to obey him? I can’t recall once in my life time. Yet I can sit there Sunday after Sunday and here how black men aren’t living up to their obligations as men. I refuse to sit with my daughter in church and be dissed to my face.

Anyway, I got off on a rant. Glad to see you back. Keep doing your thing bro.

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Lsmbr November 4, 2010 at 09:57

Glad to see you are still writing, both here and your new place.

BTW, have you ever run across this blog?

http://afrocityblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/21/the-adventures-of-gone-juan/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 11
Thrasymachus November 4, 2010 at 10:00

Obsidian- it is entirely possible to be a principled liberal, one who debates honestly and speaks up for the rights of others whom he doesn’t agree with. But it was back in the 60′s that rigid, intolerant liberals took over and tried to shut everyone up. Stand up for yourself, stand up for others, be a principled liberal. We’d like to see more of them.

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vp075 November 4, 2010 at 10:03

HBD??

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Richard November 4, 2010 at 10:05

@Obsidian

“Earlier this year, during my tenure at the online Men’s magazine The Spearhead, I ran into a buzzsaw of contention for merely pointing out some things about my White brothers than they didn’t like”

Can you give a link to that article?

Thanks.

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Tim November 4, 2010 at 10:15

How many complaints does it take to get shut down? Take a guy like Roissy and you’d think he’s had a lot of complaints, but he’s still in business.

Anyway, that’s how women do it; they are totalitarian. The end justifies the means, and the end is equality of outcome. Women do not care about the process.

Some of the issues we discuss here in the manosphere I’ve been raising with female family members, and lemme tell ya, I’ve almost been lynched.

Anyway, looks like you’ve got another venue -bravenet? Good luck and I agree, if skin color divides us then we won’t accomplish much at all.

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J. Durden November 4, 2010 at 10:20

Obsidian:

Found something that might be relevant regarding African American women. Hat tip to Troll King over at reddit’s MensRights.

My mother always asked the question, “Why would I want to be equal to men, when I’ve been superior to them all my life?”

This sardonic questioning of the equality goals of the women’s movement always seemed to have an important message for me hidden behind the joke. In order to be equal to men, do women have to be like men? This is a long-standing dilemma for the women’s movement.

As an African American feminist, this apparently simple question never seemed to address my intersectional experiences, and they did not neatly fit into a linear gender axis that demands equality with men. It did not fit for several reasons.

First, who says what men have is what women want or need?

In any case, a brutha’s a brother’s a bro’s a brah’s a friend, in my book.

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Snark November 4, 2010 at 10:33

*extends his pasty-ass whiteboy hand for a firm handshake with Obsidian*

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WGMOW November 4, 2010 at 10:40

If you’re willing to take the hand of an old white female MRA, which is offered in friendship and support, well – here it is.

I feel far more empathy for your (our) cause than I feel for 99.99999% of the women I know, meet, hear, and read. Sure, “women are powerful” until you hurt their feelings. Then they suddenly devolve into crying little babies running for mommie.

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Herbal Essence November 4, 2010 at 10:52

I’ve always liked Obsidian’s stuff and didn’t find him overly contentious.

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zed November 4, 2010 at 10:56

Freedom is taken, not given.

Absolutely – either taken, or taken away.

I have long been an advocate for putting the whole “race” thing behind us, if we as men or MRAs or MGTOW can ever find a way to do that.

A few years back some guy supposedly made a movie called “Diary of Tired Black Man.” I say supposedly because I never saw it released anywhere, just a few Internet trailers. There was a forum associated with the film, and unfortunately when white men joined and voiced their support the racial divide surfaced and most of the black men there still felt more loyal to the black women there – who have been busily selling them out – than the white men who could see that all men today are rapidly being forced into the same makeshift life-raft. We can’t even call it a “boat”, because the wimminsandchilluns always get all the seats available in any boat.

While I get the point that you are being silenced, Obsidian, I’m not quite able to see you as any sort of victim. Basically, it looks to me like WP cut off the free beer tap because some people complained that you were throwing it on them.

Nothing in the world is more expensive than a “free” service – because the real cost is your integrity. No one is obligated to provide anyone a platform from which to say things that the people who pay the bills find offensive.

The only way that men will ever control their own destiny is to stop being dependent on handouts in order to survive. The spearhead and Ferdinand have both recently had their portion of fat advertising revenue taken away from them because they said some things some people didn’t like.

When we first set up mgtow.net about 5 years ago, some of us dug down and paid for the hosting plan out of our own pockets – just so that no one could get the plug pulled on us for violating any TOS agreements. We got a Virtual Private Server and basically told men that we would give them free domain space to set up whatever they wanted – like a big empty warehouse set up as a sort of MRA “fleamarket”. Anyone who asked could have some space to set up a stall, at no cost to them. But, that was all we would give them – free space. If they wanted tables, they had to bring their own. If they wanted electric lights, they had to come up with their own generator. Three years or so later, when the place was still completely empty except for the corner office of mgtow.net, we decided to stop wasting our money and let the lease expire.

Those guys who probably never heard of our offer – because we didn’t see much point in spending even more money to advertise a free service – and set up shop in a nice mall with all kinds of amenities, are now finding themselves unceremoniously ejected because they set out some pamphlets which upset the “paying” customers.

If you are going to set out to piss people off, you are going to get your legs cut out from under you unless you find a way to pay your own way.

The saddest part of running any MM website is that what it tends to generate more than anything else are complaints that the free beer isn’t cold enough. Only when men stop accepting handouts, and depending on those handouts in order to live and do what they believe is right, will they ever be free.

Juan Williams had his stint as “house boy” on the plantation as long as he didn’t get uppity and criticize his mistresses’ current favorite pet minority. As long as he was the favorite pet, life was sweet. But, women are fickle – as we all well know. Oh, I’m sure they “still love him”, but are “no longer in love with” him.

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TFH November 4, 2010 at 10:58

Strike Force Time!!!!

Here is an article about Obama’s new attempt to expand DV laws to be even more misandric than they are.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obamas-domestic-violence-initiative-hope-hype-and-hogwash/

While the article is critical of Obama, there is far too little grasp of the fact that 50% of DV is BY women AGAINST men.

A few of you MUST go there and set the record straight. Post supporting links if you can. But this is how we increase knowledge among people not yet fully aware.

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Gunn November 4, 2010 at 11:02

Breaking this comment into two parts:

i.

the way your blog was pulled off the air was abhorrent. I find your blog tedious if I’m being fair, but you should be given the chance to air your views like any other blogger on WP. WP is making a huge mistake here in my opinion, as whilst this may save them some grief in the short term from whichever ‘sista’ you offended, in the long term other bloggers will (and should) think twice about using them as their site of choice to blog.

ii.
“Earlier this year, during my tenure at the online Men’s magazine The Spearhead, I ran into a buzzsaw of contention for merely pointing out some things about my White brothers than they didn’t like”

That my friend was a shit storm of your own making. Unlike in everyday life, if you throw around spurious charges of racism and shaming language (particularly on a site like the Spearhead ffs), then you’d better be prepared to handle the consequences. You weren’t prepared (hell, I think you figured that no one would call you on your bullshit) and you reaped what you sowed.

That your blog was taken down by a black woman is in some ways poetic after the way that you personally use race in your writing, but in no way was it justified. What I hope you learn from this is that the guys that you were baiting on the Spearhead don’t hold it against you now when you are apparently seeing the error of some of your past actions.

For what its worth, I’ve said my peace above, and am willing to take your future writings on their individual merits. I hope you do get back up and running quickly, because a guy who thinks about things and wants to write about things should be allowed the same freedom as anyone else in the same position.

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scatmaster November 4, 2010 at 11:55

Somebody want to make up a list of all these acronyms and put them in a link. As vpo75 asked.

HBD?

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CashingOut November 4, 2010 at 12:23

Obsidian, I haven’t read your blog, but so far as this posting, I agree with you 110%. Being a decent Black Man sucks, because you have such rampant leftism running rampant IN YOUR OWN RACE, trying to graft itself onto your racial identity, that it is hard to go anywhere without being hit by one set of crosshairs or another. Furthermore, on the other end, you have your fair share of what I like to call “Small Pond Whales,” who, even though they are accomplished/well off, have nothing better to do than to attack Black people who haven’t reached their level in society, and are giving Black self reliance a bad name and making leftism more appealing. And before anyone says that I am trangulating the issue, or trying to create an excluded middle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxCqJImpOAE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7diAnTSn9o

I agree with you that leftists are the most intolerant people on the planet. Leftists want to help you, so long as you are willing to sign your life, liberty, and soul away from them. Refuse, or even hint that you want and are actively trying to achieve something more than being on the Dole for the rest of your life, and you will be shunned and ostracized.

Leftism is so ingrained into the Black family that Black people who do not accept leftism are counter as fools, race traitors, and derided by the entire family they belong to. My family is so leftist it isn’t funny. People bragging about who has the best welfare deal and who is “hooking” the system the best. This is a family of thieves, robbers, alleged killers, rapists, whores, and welfare queens. When people talk about “biological Black inferiority” I get a little sick to my stomach, not because I disagree with them, but because these pieces of shit, and many more Black people I’ve seen and dealt with, add fuel to the fire. I, being none of these things, having no criminal record outside of a traffic ticket, and paying my own way in life, am ostracized, and prevented from seeing sick and disabled relatives because, “I’m violent, antisocial, and uppity.” Which is how they interpet my attributes of “I take no shit from no one, I don’t wish to bother people nor do I wish to be bothered, and while I have compassion for people on hard times, I have none for willful stupidity or wanton laziness.”

Really, this could all segue into another discussion about how real conservatives should all be on their knees sucking Obama’s dick right now because without his lunacy, we wouldn’t see leftists showing their asses, and thus driving people from left of center (where I was) to fairly damn far right (where I went). But that would be too long to put here. Bottom line is, I agree, I am not for leftism. I have personally seen how it cripples people, holds them back, stupifies, deceives, and flat out miseducates people on life in general. I have personally seen how it gives racist sexist lazy gluttonous pencil pushers who have no goddamn business doing so much as running a lemonade stand complete life and death power over people and their friends and family. Am I for helping the poor and downtrodden. To a degree, yes. However I am not for this monstorous system that has sprung up that claims to be for helping the poor and downtrodden and yet is paralyzing more and more of the populace into needing it. I’m not one of those people who believe that the only alternative to the erroneous belief that poor people are virtuous and rich people are evil is that poor people are all scum and rich people are virtuous. But this shit that we have here is ri-dic-u-lous.

The whole idea behind welfare, at least in my mind, is to keep someone from starving long enough for them to get OFF welfare. Now we have people talking about state paid birth control. What hasn’t been mentioned is that obesity is going to get covered under this law as well, as obesity has been defined by many health insurance companies as an illness. My premium went up 500% when they added obesity to the list of things that my plan would treat. Who would have imagined after the New Deal, that the welfare that was being offered then as supposedly a “stopgap” would morph into some monster that REQUIRES that over 66% of people take advantage of it?

So in that regard Obsidian, I agree with you 100%: there are Black people who want none of this monster. And taking a page from TFH’s blog, I think that a fair amount of the gunfire we are getting from some quarters regarding Black policy, is our fault, for not taking control of the dialog and determining what we do and don’t want. It needs to be made clear that Yes, we are for equal opportunity employment, for fair treatment by police and law enforcement, for the ability to legally traverse and inhabit the United States without any City, State, or Federal “Colored” zones, for the ability to apply to a college, and be considered, on our merits, as potential students. This does not coincide with, nor is it synonymous with quotas, special preferential treatment, special “Black Only” programs which supposedly are meant to further Black people when in reality they only produce a “sanitized” environment where Black people don’t do the real job/course, but a dumbed down version of the job/course that they get no respect for anyway. This is not synonymous with special payment programs that are supposedly meant to “help” Black people with their finances, but don’t address the root cause of their financial distress, and only encourage them to become more dependent on the system. I am all for Black freedom, equality, and for being left the fuck alone, but the problem is that leftism has co-opted the Civil Rights movement such that any mention of Black advancement is now so intristically connected with some government program designed to foster that advancement, that Black people cannot seriously discuss freedom from or limitation of government, as their very destiny has been tied to it. We come into a room and talk about how it’s disgusting that defacto and dejure laws have been made giving women the right to make accusations about this, that, and the other without proof, and the continuing push to make women a protected class, and we’re automatically viewed as the enemy, because our “people” (and I know how problematic it is to assign “Black” as a race accurately) support, endorse, and rely on this government to continue their well being and very existence, and what is worse, most of these people have no plan nor any desire to end this state of affairs.

What makes it so bad is, too many Black people are happy with being the “enemy,” and don’t look at the insidious thing that leftism is doing to them with their own eyes.

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CashingOut November 4, 2010 at 12:50

@zed:

DOATBM did in fact come out: there were copies of it available at a local Hollywood Video store before it went under. It is also available at Amazon, so it did actually come out.

That said, you are spot on about the analysis about the racial divide appearing. What you forgot to mention was that

1) the circular firing squad kicked into high gear both there AND at the forum which was protesting the movie. This led to the former forum being shut down for a period of time, and a fair number of people just walking out of the latter after getting shot in the back, ass, and dick one to many times.

2) At the forum protesting the movie, you had people who were basically for MRAism in name only, endorsing every and any manner of BS in the name of masculinity and Blackness.

3) You didn’t forget to mention this, but I’m just going to expound on it a little more: in various issues that woulld come up, you saw people taking a kneejerk stance based on race that went beyond common sense. I recall one argument where people were arguing that a Black woman had really written the Matrix, and had her teleplay stolen from her in the 80′s. Never mind that the Matrix is really an archtype story, and has been told in some way, shape, or form for all of human history. Maybe 2 people had the audacity to question or ask why this Black woman didn’t take advantage of the copyrighting resources available to her if she was in fact the author of the original Matrix, as opposed to assuming that this was an automatic case of “White Man steals from oppressed Black.”

That was one of the more vanilla examples. It just got to the point where logic and reason weren’t used at all in debates, and it became one of those “sanitized” MRA zones that I was talking about earlier: no real MRAism took place, but because it was for Black people, no real MRAism had to. Any manner of bullshit could go on, even shit contrary to the mission, and if you called anyone on it, the automatic defense was “you’re against Black people.” Sound familiar when attacking leftist policies, plans, and agendas?

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 6
zed November 4, 2010 at 13:14

@CashingOut,

I had big hopes for DOATBM when it first came out for a lot of reasons. I saw some buzz about pre-release screenings in Atlanta and maybe a couple of other places. For a while it seemed like Tim had a huge number of black men who were really ready for some man to step up and be their Spartacus. But something happened between him and the men who wanted to support him before I found the forum about the movie.

One of the most focused, and probably one of the hardest, young men I have run into in a long time posts under the name Truthslayer, or sometimes Deathslayer. He and I have a relationship going back quite a while, and it seemed like he was a major presence on the DOATBM forum until Tim banned him for some reason. I strolled in and played dumb until I found out where the renegades regrouped (what has become an essential survival skill for MRAs these days), which was a forum and site called Black Men Vent. I had known Truthslayer for years and had never known he was black. We talked about the issues we had in common, not superficial differences which neither of us considered significant.

The thing which surprised me the most was how bitterly those guys at BMV hated Tim. And, you are right, everything was about being black, and really unloading on black women. There actually was some pretty good criticism of social conditions that happened at BMV, but the undercurrent that when the temperature was 105° for “black people” it never went above 85° for white people was pervasive.

As a result of participating in both forums, I got a sense that those guys were so angry because they felt betrayed and that Tim sold them out.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3
Rebel November 4, 2010 at 13:39

Recently, there has been a slew of Men`s site being shut down.

Men are being silenced. The response to that is to raise our voices.

The Tea party has given us an indication of what men must do: yell so loud so that no other voice can be heard.

So much more can be done than what is presently done: flyers by the truckload, blocking traffic, jamming forums with thousands of complaints about the unequal treatment, make men`s quagmire the talk of the town every day, spread fear (it works well), become the government`s worst nightmare, call upon revolution or civil disobedience, spread chaos.

In my POV, we are justified in spreading anarchy and disorder. We have the right to destroy that which is destroying us. Does anyone disagree?

The end justifies the means. It has never been truer.

Freedom has a price. Spartacus was vanquished in the end , probably because he was too soft: he should have burnt Rome.

Spartacus only wanted freedom: that was his mistake: he should have first destroyed his tormentors. In that sense, Alaric was smarter: he served Romans his Justice on a silver platter. (he served Romans their own heads on a silver platter, which was the right thing to do)

Let that be a lesson..

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greyghost November 4, 2010 at 13:46

Good to see you back man. I told you before you are not a black man but a man that is black. You are amna first and it was too bad them femminist bitches had to remind of that. We’ll just see about getting a male birth control pill and cut their funding at the pussy hole. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
greyghost

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Shawn D November 4, 2010 at 14:04

I was under the impression that Juan Williams got booted for his Fox News pundit like antics which is frowned on at NPR. Someone posted a great comment that a majority of men are not your allies. What does that make “blackwomen” Obsidian?

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Szebran November 4, 2010 at 14:17

So a black women had your blog shut down. This is the reason I said U should not worry about what color a person is. Sooner or later, people will either prove themselves to you or they will prove they are assholes – reguardless of color.
Am surprised Word Press caved. I wonder if blogspot is next. Feminist are just like the Communists, always trying to clamp down on dissent. Always trying to shut men up.
I thought the samething about NPR firing Williams – a joke. A liberal station fires somebody just cause they spoke their mind (and the guy didn’t even say anything offensive). NPR=bullshitters.

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Acksiom November 4, 2010 at 14:20

“The Tea party has given us an indication of what men must do: yell so loud so that no other voice can be heard.”

No; the indication of what we must do that the Tea Partiers have given us is that we must dig in and get out hands dirty at the local level of government.

That’s why the Republicans now have majorities in so many State Legislatures, why so many Republican State Attorneys were elected, and so on. The Tea Partiers made it happen, and conditions are still right for them to keep increasing in power and influence through 2012.

If you want change, get out there and join them at the local level and start getting your hands dirty. They’re still the next big wave in usa politics, but why should they do anything about men’s issues? Men’s issues advocates and activists need to do something for them first; that’s how humanity works, let alone politics, and even at the upper levels of power.

Nobody’s going to listen to men’s issues advocates and activists unless and until they’ve given several good reasons. It’s just the way of the world; we’re all too invested in getting men to exchange their well-being, safety, health, and lives for cheaper resources, infrastructure, manufacturing, defense, and so on. That’s not going to change without technological improvement, as I observe is so often the case with civil rights advances.

So we have to find and create proposals and policies that will benefit both. Show the Tea Partiers how men’s issues can be used to serve their priorities of reducing government size, spending, and power, and we’ll see more progress.

But in order to show them that, we have to be part of the organization first. We have to pay our dues. We have to produce for them before they’ll listen. That’s how it works in adult life. We’re working against an uphill slope, because our society is still set up to discriminate against men and boys because of the general economic benefits, and still rewards that discrimination. So in order to compete with it, we need to come up with better alternatives that provide better rewards.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) November 4, 2010 at 14:22

Obisdian,
all men who are not manginas are my brothers. I don’t give a f*** about skin colour or religion. I give a f*** about whether a man is a MAN or not.

I am not at all surprised it was your women who undermined you. Women everywhere are undermining men. Women are the willing accomplices to the PTB in enslaving men. Only men are not willing to realise their women are betraying them….and even less willing to speak out about it. I asked men here to come to the Irish Free Man site many times and speak out. We have 2,000+ members over there. Nope. Too much trouble.

So welcome to the world of a man undermined by women. If you want my take? This is what I tell women on my web site now:
http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/14/threadid/483/scope/posts/Default.aspx

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 4
Acksiom November 4, 2010 at 14:25

“I was under the impression that Juan Williams got booted for his Fox News pundit like antics which is frowned on at NPR.”

Then you need to read wider. Nina Totenberg wished publicly for a politician’s children to get AIDS, and her position at NPR doesn’t seem to be in jeopardy. There are other, similar examples.

Williams was fired because he went off the plantation period, not because of what he did while away.

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Shawn D November 4, 2010 at 14:34

@Acksiom

“Then you need to read wider.”

Why i’m here.

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Acksiom November 4, 2010 at 14:43

Fair enough, Shawn. I recommend starting with Instapundit and Breitbart — http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/ and http://bigjournalism.com/?s=Juan+Williams+NPR .

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Christian J November 4, 2010 at 14:45

I have had similar experiences on Blogger.com where my blog disappeared on two occasions in the past only to re-appear a few days later. I do have a backup method that will ensure that if it does disappear then a new dot com will reappear within the next few days.
It is a constant threat that is for sure. Look for to the New raw version. All the best..

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misterb November 4, 2010 at 15:07

Being a man doesn’t have to do with colour. It sounds to me whenever a man uses the colour of his skin, his ethnicity, or whatever, to promote his own views. It’s a supremacist view.

it’s better to be truthful, rather than using arrogance and some bullshit attitude.

Feminists are by far arrogant and down right narcissistic. They practically don’t give two shits about others unless things are in their favour.

Among the points of being a man, is to set aside the bickering. No racial slurs, no nonsense, no bullshit. And be men. It’s that simple. That includes black men and Latino men.

Men are not peacocks, you don’t need to prance around looking for a piece of womanly ass.
Be a man, and voice your opinion.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 9
Joe November 4, 2010 at 15:26

“Earlier this year, during my tenure at the online Men’s magazine The Spearhead, I ran into a buzzsaw of contention for merely pointing out some things about my White brothers than they didn’t like”

It’s called disagreement. We disagreed so we argued. You’re a bit of a drama queen with the racial stuff.

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Zeta November 4, 2010 at 15:31

It sounds to me like you’ve only returned here because you want something from us: our support. Frankly, I’m not going to give it. The disingenuous appeal to comradery doesn’t fly in the context of your past words and deeds. Your blog should not have been taken down, and I hope it is restored, but I cannot in good conscience offer any assistance or support in the matter either.

I think your comparison to Juan Williams is apt. You were content to beat up on our side, and on white people, until you needed something from us. At your best moments, you were a half-hearted “ally”, and that’s really no ally at all. Again, I’m not fooled. Sorry.

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Höllenhund November 4, 2010 at 15:36

Obsidian has bad-mouthed this site numerous times on his blog. Just saying. You should remember that.

I find it hilarious that he endlessly complained about the evil HBDers, obviously picturing them in his mind wanting to do him harm, and then he got attacked by a black woman.

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Fabron November 4, 2010 at 15:50

Me and Welmer are trying to put our heads together to see what we can do about me getting fully back up and running again – sadly, it seems the current platform I’ve chosen isn’t too WP friendly.

Here are a couple of thoughts that you may have already tried, but just in case:

Your dispute is not with the WordPress CMS (content management system), which is open source. Instead, your dispute is with WordPress free hosting service. I recommend you find a hosting service that has WordPress on its own servers, open an account, and import your file.

Next, you need your own domain. Quit trying to save a few dollars a month by using a free WP service.

Get a pronounceable domain name. Nothing too cute. And, yes, “obsidian” borders on the cute. The domain name should be something that can be given in a speech or phone conversation and not have to be repeated. That is, it is instantly understood. For example, I just checked and the domain BlackManNews.com is available. Easy to say. Easy to remember. Nothing complicated, such as a hyphen (no offense, Welmer).

Explore and you can probably come up with something better than BlackManNews.com. But, once you have the domain name, you can map it to your WP files. Make regular backups. If your next host gives you trouble, then simply move your WP site to another server.

By the way, I subscribed to your email letter and started reading your stuff because I liked your photography. Only later did I learn you are black.

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misterb November 4, 2010 at 16:05

@Obsidian
I don’t think the likes of Obsidian is getting the message. Quit being supremacist ass. Just because your black doesn’t give you an excuse to disrespect other men. It gives an impression that you’re collaborating with the enemy.

I find it quite ironic that an arrogant black woman knocked your site offline.

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Paradoxotaur November 4, 2010 at 16:06

HBD means:

happy birthday
has been drinking
here be dragons
hey, baby doll
hope before dispair
hightech business district
hot box detector (used on train brake boxes)
huge boner deflowering and
hydroxy butyrate dehydrogenase

Take your pick.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 15
zed November 4, 2010 at 16:11

It also stands for Human Bio Diversity, which is shorthand for the advantage that sexual reproduction confers on those species which practice it, and is one foundation of the explanations for female hypergamy.

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Ray Manta November 4, 2010 at 16:12

Obsidian,
What happened to you just plain sucks – there’s no excuse for it and you did nothing to deserve it. And I’m saying that as someone who has taken very strong exception to many of your viewpoints.

There’s one sentence of yours I’d like to comment on :
> That only happened when Women, in this case they happened to be Black, did so.

Note the strategy displayed here – it was one of your “own” that pulled the trigger, so that the cardinal sin of racism can be sidestepped.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 10
Lovekraft November 4, 2010 at 17:01

This is appearing to be a global movement more and more.

Race will be far from the main issue which is to restructure society to encourage self-reliance and security. Security that comes from deconstructing existing police state systems, and self-reliance that comes from a racial co-operation based on mutual respect and historical awareness.

In the meantime, whites and blacks can start bridging the gap, such as finding common experiences, and exposing fears. The system presents false scarcity and a competitive subtext.

Humanity will be the combination of scientific and spiritual cohesion.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6
HR Lincoln November 4, 2010 at 17:35

Obsid, you always seem to have something worthwhile to say, and I usually enjoyed visiting your blog. My best to you, man.

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Elusive Wapiti November 4, 2010 at 17:37

I am reminded of a strategy that Al Qaeda uses when promoting its movement to promote worldwide Islamiscism…focus on the unifying factors and avoid surfacing issues that divide. An excellent example would be the whole caliphate thing that splits sunni and shia Moslems. Lesson: it is far better to focus on issues that unite…in the Moslem’s case, one of those issues would be booting the infidel out of Mecca. Another would be taking back Jerusalem from the Jew.

This olive branch from O is along those lines. We have unity and agreement when the discussion is about female chauvinism or helping a brother protect himself in today’s world. We have discord when a brother who defines himself as Black bangs on the race drum with the expectation that those of us who are White will cower in fear–like usual when faced with the race card–but instead push back. I suspect it is best to consign dis-integrative discussions like that in other forums, and keep ones like this focused on one thing: advancing the cause of men everywhere.

Whatever one thinks of the evidence that supports or discredits the HBDers’ assertions about genetic differences between the races, one thing is more or less indisputable…that the genetic gap between men and women is much wider than that between men of different races.

Which somewhat helps explain why those (erroneously) thought to be allies based on morphology and skin color but are of the female sex so quickly turn on you…they have more in common with their totalitarian white, red, and yellow sisters than they do with you.

I for one welcome the battleship guns of O’s intellect being trained on the targets that just fired a volley his way.

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Keoni Galt November 4, 2010 at 18:05

Zed – I used to read The Diary of a Tired Black Man forum daily. The reason why the place fell apart is because Tim ended up hooking up with a black woman. That forum used to have all sorts of black men posting their thoughts on how black women are screwed up and how they blame all of their faults and problems on black men, and they would have frequent flame wars between black women and black men regarding the sorry state of affairs between the sexes.

Once Tim got serious with a black woman, he became a black and white knight, and began to delete and censor the tired black men who criticized black women in any way. In essence, his new love made him become a devout believer in NAWALT.

Many of his male forum regulars began to get angry with him the more he began to blackandwhiteknight for all the black women that posted there. Eventually Tim just shut the whole forum down because so many men became angry with him and began to accuse him of selling out.

It’s a shame though…the trailer he made was a pretty good illustration of the problem many black men face in dealing with the sistas, as Obsidian found out.

Obs, good luck on starting all over.

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zed November 4, 2010 at 18:32

Once Tim got serious with a black woman, he became a black and white knight, and began to delete and censor the tired black men who criticized black women in any way. In essence, his new love made him become a devout believer in NAWALT.

As has been said many times, most MRAs are just one good blowjob away from turning back into a white knight, or as in this case a blackandwhiteknight as you put it. Tim actually played the whole thing just like some black ministers have been known to do, and was involved with more than one woman on that forum. One of them got pregnant, and Tim “manned up” and switched loyalties in a heartbeat. I had a lot of private msg conversations with him, which made the dynamics of what was going on in the public forum make a lot more sense. There were a lot of layers to what was going down. The men there saw the Spartacus they were hoping for – there to lead them in revolt. But, what better way to set yourself up as AMOG than to make a movie and build your own forum about it? When his peacocking got him what he was after, he dropped his “brothers” like a hot rock. And, they hated him for that.

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Höllenhund November 4, 2010 at 19:17

“As has been said many times, most MRAs are just one good blowjob away from turning back into a white knight”

The funny thing about this often-repeated statement is that white knights don’t receive blow jobs in the first place precisely because they’re white knights.

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white and nerdy November 4, 2010 at 19:18

It’s called disagreement. We disagreed so we argued. You’re a bit of a drama queen with the racial stuff.

And with crap like “And if we let differences in skin tone continue to divide us” and “It’s up to you, if you want to take a Black hand in friendship” he still a drama queen with the racial stuff.

It sounds to me like you’ve only returned here because you want something from us: our support. Frankly, I’m not going to give it. The disingenuous appeal to comradery doesn’t fly in the context of your past words and deeds. Your blog should not have been taken down, and I hope it is restored, but I cannot in good conscience offer any assistance or support in the matter either.

I agree and on top of this it’s clear he’s learned nothing. That’s why I say Fuck Obsidian.

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Renee November 4, 2010 at 19:44

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Obsidian November 4, 2010 at 20:08

Hello everyone,
I want to again, thank everyone for their input and comments. I’ve just been sitting back and reading what’s been said, and will have a bit more to say about it in due course, in a seperate and upcoming article. The theme: on what, precisely, unifies Black and White Men? What issues can we both get behind and work on? How do we move the ball foward?

No matter what you may or may not think of me, the bottomline is that what happened to me can happen to Welmer or anyone else reading this, and it all comes from a common source – recall, that Juan Williams wasn’t just fired by NPR -but that the ones who actually wielded the axe, were both Women. It is undeniable to say in our time, that feminine proclivities are now influencing not only social custom, but public policy as well. And that, to me, is the overarching point that we have to all, come to grips with.

Someone asked me exactly what piece of mine I was referring to wrt The Spearhead that caused so much controversey. It can be found in the back post archive under my name. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but I do have a serious problem with people misrepresenting what I said. The truth is, that I’ve always been sympathetic to the idea that Men should have equal rights under the law; I just couldn’t, and still can’t, get with the overriding sense of anger bordering on hatred that some here seem not only to envince, but to revel in. Quite honestly, it in my view hurts the cause for Men’s Rights. It gives the movement a bad name. And it is ultimately counterproductive.

I believe that we stand at a critical juncture in American life. For the first time since perhaps the Vietnam war era, Men accross the board are taking serious stock of their lives and asking hard questions about who they are and where they want to be. It has always been my view that The Spearhead, and outfits like it, can and should play a role in assisting Men to deal with these things. And that can’t happen, again in my opinion, if so much of our time is spent spewing vitriol at Women enmasse, instead of taking focused aim at those who are truly responsible. This is why I refuse to go at Women as an entire group; many of them don’t agree with what the more radical voices among them are doing and saying. Instead, I focus my ire on those who matter, such as my piece above makes clear. There is nothing to be gained in me going after the everyday Sista out there who is just trying to live her life.

Again, I’m thinking all of this over and hope to have something ready to go between now and this time next week. But I just wanted to post some thoughts in reply to what some of you have written here. I’m deeply thankful for the discussion and the interest in my humble missives!

Thanks again.

O.

Denis November 4, 2010 at 20:35

Can I call you brother?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 15
DirkJohanson November 4, 2010 at 20:37

I can relate. I’ve been permanently banned from Facebook.

Then again, while they wouldn’t tell me why, it probably has something to do with using a picture of my testicles as my profile picture.

Still …

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5
Höllenhund November 4, 2010 at 20:40

Obsidian,

I happen to remember that your tone towards the readers here has been condescending and snarky. The commenters on your bygone blog have been downright vicious towards MRAs and not once did you call them out on that. In fact, you had the same attitute yourself.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 14
Denis November 4, 2010 at 20:41

I had an interesting discussion with a black activist on the street. His concern was about the disarray and dysfunction of black communities. He gave me this handout, in which I pondered the similarities to the plight of men in today’s marxist feminist matriarchy.

“Willie Lynch – The Making of a Slave

I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree, a couple miles back. You are not only losing valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed. Gentlemen, you know what your problems are; I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems.

I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves; and I take these differences and make them bigger. I use fear, distrust and envy for control purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple list of differences and think about them. On top of my list is “AGE” but it’s there only because it starts with an “A”. The second is COLOR or shade, there is INTELLIGENCE, SIZE, SEX, SIZES OF PLANTATIONS, STATUS on plantations, ATTITUDE of owners, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, course hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action, but before that I shall assure you that DISTRUST IS STRONGER THAN TRUST and ENVY STRONGER THAN ADULATION, RESPECT OR ADMIRATION.

Don’t forget you must pitch the OLD black Male vs. the YOUNG black Male, and the YOUNG black Male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE, and the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have your white servants and over-seers distrust all Blacks. But it is NECESSARY THAT YOUR SLAVES TRUST AND DEPEND ON ONLY US

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 4
W.F. Price November 4, 2010 at 20:41

Then again, while they wouldn’t tell me why, it probably has something to do with using a picture of my testicles as my profile picture.

Hah!

That is a banning to be proud of!

Oh man, you gave me a good laugh.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 4
Höllenhund November 4, 2010 at 20:50

“I just couldn’t, and still can’t, get with the overriding sense of anger bordering on hatred that some here seem not only to envince, but to revel in.”

That you don’t seem to have had any really bad experiences with women – aside from this WP ban – may have something to do with it. You don’t understand because you cannot relate and have little (if any) empathy – at least with whites, that is.

Frankly, your complaints about ‘misogyny’ are tiresome. I’m sure every regular reader has heard it dozens of times from others before. Nobody cares. The bad reputation of American women, as far as I can tell, is well-deserved, and they don’t seem to be good at condemning those of them who explot and victimize men. Sisterhood and herd mentality, I suppose.

And would you please finally stop writing ‘Women’ with a capital W? I mean, WTF? There is more than enough pedestalization of women on the Internet already.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 12
Lee Raconteur November 4, 2010 at 21:16

Obsidian,

You are welcome to post at dontmarry.proboards.com, as are all commenters here.

I think, though, that your voice and talents need a larger platform.

Also, do you have a backup or spider or storage of your blog?

Several guys have become very adept at restoring deleted blogs as this occurs all the time with MRA viewpoints.

Best of luck and drop by dm and tell us how you are doing.

All the best,
Lee
dontmarry.proboards.com

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5
W.F. Price November 4, 2010 at 21:20

The truth is, that I’ve always been sympathetic to the idea that Men should have equal rights under the law; I just couldn’t, and still can’t, get with the overriding sense of anger bordering on hatred that some here seem not only to envince, but to revel in. Quite honestly, it in my view hurts the cause for Men’s Rights. It gives the movement a bad name. And it is ultimately counterproductive.

It’s all part of the natural emotional spectrum. Hatred and anger are only normal in some circumstances, and sometimes righteous. Alone they are a problem, but I think we know better than to let one passion rule us entirely.

So let the men be angry, but also let them laugh, smile, reflect, mourn, etc.

We have to keep in mind that trying to eliminate hatred is just as unnatural and unfeasible as trying to eliminate love — they’re both part of what makes us human, and both serve an important purpose.

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Lee Raconteur November 4, 2010 at 21:24

Addendum:

One of the huge, massive, undiscussed and undisclosed secrets (and strengths) of the MRA movement is that it’s color blind. There are many many black men who write on your favorite forums and blogs and you do not know who they are.

I estimate the number is about 30% of all MRA’s due to the fact that many black women are horrific nightmares that make white women look like Filipinas.

This is a huge ace in the hole for us, because when Feminists attack us they always pull the -ists cards and then they find out to their horror that one third of the guys are not white.

Personally I prefer that we go back to ideas and drop racial identity from the discussion. This scourge isn’t going to spare anyone, be they white, latino, black or purple.

There is no need to divide us up by race, age, nationality, ethncity or religion.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 9
zimmy November 4, 2010 at 21:26

Years ago I got banned from “ifeminist”. I was having an on-going argument with the mangina who was working for or with Wendy McElroy. I kept pointing out that much of advertising was anti male and this guy just couldn’t accept that fact. I don’t recall his name but he seemed to be a poor ambassador for that site.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3
Lee Raconteur November 4, 2010 at 21:28

I just couldn’t, and still can’t, get with the overriding sense of anger bordering on hatred that some here seem not only to envince, but to revel in.

Why not? Women, homosexuals and LGBTG all used anger without restraint and it worked well for them. Many feminists hate men and they stated so explicitly many times. It worked and they got what they wanted.

Not only is an appeal to ‘not be angry’ a shaming tactic that allows opponents to define the terms and conditions of the debate, success and discussion, it also does not work.

Be angry. Be unyielding. Be demanding.

It worked for them. Turnabout is fair play.

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Tim November 4, 2010 at 22:20

So let the men be angry, but also let them laugh, smile, reflect, mourn, etc.

Ya, this is something I know you’ve tried to address, Welmer. I actually posted something over at divorcedwomenonline, and the lady who responded to me gave me a remarkably insightful response. I had to stop and think, because I figured she was going to give me a load of shit in return.

There is a literacy gap between men and women, and women are leaving most men in the dust. They graduate from college armed with Sociology degrees with concentrations in Oppression and men are graduating with diplomas in sheet metal fabrication, math, physics and engineering. Neither one is superior to the other. (Actually, I think the latter is superior).

But my point is, in terms of literacy, men are getting their asses kicked, and Obsidian has a point. Most of these comment still cannot be taken seriously by the mainstream media. Nothing against my fellow men; I am no genius either, and I’ve left many a misogynist remark here.

Women have the verbal advantage; it was not always so. Perhaps its been only the past 40 years. In any event, Obsidian has a point. No one will take this seriously unless the literacy is stepped up a notch.

Then again, I don’t think anyone really takes ‘divorcedwomenonline’ very seriously, either.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7
Keoni Galt November 4, 2010 at 22:31

Most of these comment still cannot be taken seriously by the mainstream media.

Dude…most of these comments WILL NEVER BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA!

That’s because the ‘mainstream media’ is the primary purveyor of feminist propaganda!!!!

We can NEVER rate the MRM success based on “mainstream media” acceptance.

That will never happen. Ever.

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white and nerdy November 4, 2010 at 23:01

Why not? Women, homosexuals and LGBTG all used anger without restraint and it worked well for them. Many feminists hate men and they stated so explicitly many times. It worked and they got what they wanted.

Not only is an appeal to ‘not be angry’ a shaming tactic that allows opponents to define the terms and conditions of the debate, success and discussion, it also does not work.

Be angry. Be unyielding. Be demanding.

It worked for them. Turnabout is fair play.

Exactly. Anger against women works. I have seen this on a personal level. Anger against women has given me the strength to fight back against them and win and by inspiring me to become self employed which I have done successfully.

Anger against women works.

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Scattered November 4, 2010 at 23:05

Regarding equal rights.

I think you’ll find (or at least that is my impression) that the readership is divided,significantly in favor of equal rights for women I might add, and I am sympathetic to both.

Idealy I think women should have equal rights and I don’t think many can argue with that. However as recent history has shown women as a group are more than willing to use their politcal power to gain privilege at the expense of men. It may be possible for women to have equal rights but not in a democracy.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7
Gunslingergregi November 5, 2010 at 02:54

So you are changing your mind on whites should suck it when they can’t get a job or get into a school because a minority had to be given a slot.

Are you saying that just because of one incident with black woman going to wordpress to get your blog closed that you are now going to hold all black woman responsible like they are not individual black woman but a race of black woman who you now have to be weary of?

Maybe you can now understand how whites may feel when they have had friends relatives or people they know shot stabbed beat up raped and killed by black people for stupid reasons and how maybe they have learned to be weary of black people?

Maybe now you get it.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 14
Obsidian November 5, 2010 at 02:57

HI Hollenhund,

I’m very glad that you’ve chimed in. Replies below:

H: “I just couldn’t, and still can’t, get with the overriding sense of anger bordering on hatred that some here seem not only to envince, but to revel in.”

That you don’t seem to have had any really bad experiences with women – aside from this WP ban – may have something to do with it. You don’t understand because you cannot relate and have little (if any) empathy – at least with whites, that is.

O: Oh, come on. EVERY Man (see, I used a capital “M” there; does that bother you as well?) has had some problem with Women at one point or another in his life. That’s a given -the issue is, how does that Man respond. Me, I choose to respond in ways that I deem more productive. I’m sorry, I just don’t get where stewing in one’s juices ever got anyone anywhwere. Now to be sure, one can take that anger and focus it into real course of action – the Tea Party, is an excellent example of this. But no one can say, with a straightface, that the “MRA” comes anywhere close to the TP – and keep in mind, that the former has been around a heck of a lot longer than the latter. The Tea Party has proven what can be done when people work together and organize. The went beyond their consternation of Barack Obama or the GOP in general, and actually got things done. That’s something those who wish to see fairness with regard to males (Men and Boys) need to observe and think about.

H: Frankly, your complaints about ‘misogyny’ are tiresome. I’m sure every regular reader has heard it dozens of times from others before. Nobody cares. The bad reputation of American women, as far as I can tell, is well-deserved, and they don’t seem to be good at condemning those of them who explot and victimize men. Sisterhood and herd mentality, I suppose.

O: Yes, that’s true what you just said – but it’s important not to get that tangled with the first part of your statement. H, we don’t want to give the other side – who are very much in a position to make your life, alll of our lives quite miserable – a smoking gun. Nor can we afford to become that which we stand against. Again, hatred hasn’t gotten anyone anywhere. I say we can do better than that.

H: And would you please finally stop writing ‘Women’ with a capital W? I mean, WTF? There is more than enough pedestalization of women on the Internet already.

O: Then you misunderstand why I do it. It has nothing in the least with pedestalizing Women. It’s just the way I write. Like I said above, I capitalized “M” when I type the word “Man” – does that bother you?

Lastly, you and I have disagreed mightily on a whole host of issues – yet on some key issues, we’re shoulder to shoulder. Seems to me that its far more productive to focus on that, than to quibble over stuff that, in the final analysis, doesn’t amount to much in the first place.

But that’s just me.

Holla back

O.

Gunslingergregi November 5, 2010 at 02:59

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Obsidian November 5, 2010 at 03:06

Hollenhund,
Wanted to address something else you said, which was:
“I happen to remember that your tone towards the readers here has been condescending and snarky. The commenters on your bygone blog have been downright vicious towards MRAs and not once did you call them out on that. In fact, you had the same attitute yourself.”

O: Not true. No one has gone out of their way on my blog to rundown the MRM, in fact, I’ve written numerous articles that could be seen by just about anyone, to be supportive of it. When my blog’s restored I’ll be more than glad to prove it.

The point of contention wasn’t the MRM in general, but rather my article that created such a strong controversey; two seperate things, in my view. But you’re welcome to disagree, of course.

O.

Laura November 5, 2010 at 06:15

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Troll King November 5, 2010 at 06:20

I will happily extend my hand. That sucks about being banned, they didn’t even give you a reason? Not one email?

I have said it before and will again, 99% of ‘race’ issues are not about race but instead misandry. The issues black men face aren’t because of white men as much as the female herd. Not to say there aren’t racist white men cause there are but one distinct difference between whites and blacks is how we view ourselves. White people talk about trailer trash and white trash and those aren’t positive attributes. But because black patriarchy was so heavily destroyed by white women hijacking the civil rights movement today the only real image of black men is a thug or rapper or baller. It’s not like it’s that much better in middle class white communities and selling these images is a capitalistic response to the degradation of the white patriarchy at the hands of the female herd…

I told a feminist troll over in the r/oney mens rights appropriation and colonization subreddit that she was fucking wrong, actually I think it’s a he.

They were saying there is more diversity within racial groups than outside of them and were using this as proof of men and women being the same. Well, genes do differ more within populations but that has no bearing on men being more different than women. It has to do with there being different fucking racial and ethnic groups that evolved based on different aspects of their environement over the course of millions of years.

Basically I told them that I have, from experience and knowledge of physiology, more in common with a black man or latino man or indian man or arab man or persian man or hispanic or latino man or asian or korean or japanese or tai or whatever type of man. There is less difference between men than there is between women. The main differences being some minor facial features, a bone here or there and how our bodies react to malanin.

I have thought that maybe we should call ourselves, or maybe just me, y rights activists to point out that men are different to women and our differences arise because of our y chromosome….check out some studies on the difference between y chromosmoe carries humans and apes and xx humans and apes, and you will see that there is greater differentiation between y chromosome and x chromosme on the human scale vs. animals. One studie I say shoed that the human x differes by about 1% but the y differs by ~50%.

One reason they want men divided is to conquer us. One of the most dangerous things in the world is one singular pissed of man with a mission. Guys like this have toppled or changed governmetns.

The most dangerous thing in the world is a whole bunch of pissed off guys on a mission…it’s how our country was founded(America).

Before our founding it looks like most of the guys who fought and advocated for war had little in common. They probably didn’t hang out at the same bars and social functions. They definately didn’t spend time at the same socil functions or go to the same churches. Some did but most came from every walk of life. Until they had to house red coats and deal with them eating their food and fucking with their family members…then they banded together and America was eventually created…well, some loyalist moved to canada…

I am kinda surprised that Family court hasn’t resulted in the same type of actions yet. We have Alec Baldwin and Mel Gibson in the same boat with the guys putting food on your shelves at the grocery store and changing your tires and also the meth head bikers….but they haven’t banded together yet.

Anyways, good luck Obsidian. I agree we need to work for the benefit of all males, and not against some. What was it they said? I think Zed quoted it the other day?

“We can all hang individually or we can all hang together”

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 10
Höllenhund November 5, 2010 at 07:31

Obsidian,

“Lastly, you and I have disagreed mightily on a whole host of issues – yet on some key issues, we’re shoulder to shoulder. Seems to me that its far more productive to focus on that, than to quibble over stuff that, in the final analysis, doesn’t amount to much in the first place.”

Fair enough. I will just say this: when you write things like
- AA is a “necessary evil”
- you’re “glad women’s mating preferences have changed for the better in the past 40 years” (WTF?)
- “nobody will miss these guys” (about MGTOW)
- bitter white HBDers should have no right to reproduce,

when you don’t call your commenters out on such statements as “MRAs are just nutty and bitter because they can’t get laid”, “MRAs are as bad as radical feminists” etc.,

then many people will rightfully become very suspicious of you and you shouldn’t be surprised by that. You were right to observe that HBDers have a blind spot, but it seems you have some blind spots yourself.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 9
Chris November 5, 2010 at 08:32

Your not alone at all…Just look at the Black Conservatives that were recently elected and ran in this past election. LTC Allen West comes to mind…
(Must watch from 7:35 mark on)…Hell Yes!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huDnmEQSwLU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2p91dvm6M&feature=related

I for one think that it will be the black males that turn on the democratic party first and I also believe it’s about time.

You also have Herman Cane who I hope runs for the presidency in 2012 and I would absolutely love to see a Herman Cain/LTC Allen West ticket. The progressive douche bag heads would explode at such a ticket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w1K6PX0Hic&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpjN3M1BZqI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM4pxGVG6ZQ&feature=related

Mr. Cains Radio Program…(Weeknights: 7-10pm Eastern)
http://www.hermancain.com/

I absolutely never miss a Thomas Sowell column and I have every book the man has written.

http://www.nationalreview.com/author/200445

The tide is turning, the democrat created plantation is crumbling!

These are just a few examples of black men of great honor and integrity at present and if it was left up to the democrats no one would ever hear of them or read their words. Even today many in the black community have never heard of these great men because of a complicit media in keeping the democrat plantation running.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2
Obsidian November 5, 2010 at 08:46

Hi Hollenhund,
Just want to respond to what you have attributed to me.

You have made the charge that I’ve said, on my blog that:

“AA is a “necessary evil”

O: I did indeed say this.

“- you’re “glad women’s mating preferences have changed for the better in the past 40 years” (WTF?)”

O: I don’t ever recall saying anything like this.

“- “nobody will miss these guys” (about MGTOW)”

O: Same deal here.

“- bitter white HBDers should have no right to reproduce,”

O: absolutely not true.

Listen, H, we can go round and round on stuff that, again, don’t really amount to much in the end – or – we can actually focus on things that matter to us both. Here’s a few ideas I have; please let me know where you stand:

I’m for the right of Men to determine their own lives, whatever that may be. For some, that will mean a more traditional style family life, for others, it will mean not getting married or having kids at all, not pursuing traditionally male jobs or living up to traditionally male expectations. Whatever the case, good or bad, right or wrong, I support the right of Men to decide, for themselves, which way theyr should go.

I’m for the right of Men to determine when and under what circumstances they wish to become a parent, no more and no less, than what Women in our time have enjoyed for more than four decades now. I support the right of Men to get legally binding Roe For Men styled “paper abortions” if they wish it. I support the right of Men to have access to any form of birth control designed for Men, if they wish it. And I also support the right of Men to have access to mandatory paternity testing, so they can ascertain whether a child is indeed his or not. I support the right of Men to have the same parental rights as Women, and all that comes with it.

I support the right of Men to be able to face their accusers in open court, per what is guaranteed in the US Constitution; therefore, I support the complete abolishing of “rape shield” laws. And I fully support a severe crackdown on those who would abuse the legal system to falsely accuse Men of rape and other crimes of sexual assault.

I support the right of Men to freedom of assocation; forcing a Man to undergo criminal background checks before he is allowed to converse with Women of other countries is akin to asking Women who wish to make use of IVF treatments to first undergo criminal background checks and the like; we would never countenence such a thing there, and we shouldn’t go for it here.

And, I support the right of Men to screw – be that within the bounds of normal channels, ie, relationships/marriage, or be that via legalized prostitution.

These are some of the things that I think can and will unite ALL Men, Hollenhund.

Now, what do you have to say about this – or, do you want to continue to quibble with me?

O.

Firepower November 5, 2010 at 10:25

The Day I Got The Juan Williams Treatment: A Wake-Up Call To Bloggers Everywhere

by Obsidian

Juan is a race-based liberal who bucked his beloved Party doctrine once – and was cast away by shrieking liberal Democrats who base their objectives purely on emotion.

And you complain when it happens to YOU. You self-righteous, pompous douchebag.

And each of you here offering sanctuary are simpering twats who ignorantly assume easy alliances with foes are as realistic as the Transformers episode you base your adult ethics upon.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 17
Gunn November 5, 2010 at 10:48

Obsidian,

Your later comments in this thread are facepalm worthy.

The advice you’re proffering, that men should come together and fight for the things that are being taken away from them is exactly what most of the guys here agree with anyway. That you’ve had an epiphany after your mistreatment at the hands of a black ‘W’oman is cool for you but its not exactly news at 11 to any of the rest of us.

The things that you deem as ‘quibbling’ by Hollenhund are in fact perfectly valid criticisms of your usual style of writing.

That you can’t gracefully move beyond that without having to have the last word is indicative of the reason why you created the shitstorm here with your last article. You have a need for Hollenhund to be wrong and to be ‘quibbling’ whereas your actions are/were justified. You should reflect on why that is and whether its congruent with your attempted reconciliation with the readers of the Spearhead.

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Obsidian November 5, 2010 at 11:02

Hi Gunn,
Replies below:

G: The advice you’re proffering, that men should come together and fight for the things that are being taken away from them is exactly what most of the guys here agree with anyway. That you’ve had an epiphany after your mistreatment at the hands of a black ‘W’oman is cool for you but its not exactly news at 11 to any of the rest of us.

O: all the more reason to get ourselves in gear, is it not, Gunn? Or is duking it out with me more important? Which is it?

G: The things that you deem as ‘quibbling’ by Hollenhund are in fact perfectly valid criticisms of your usual style of writing.

O: Not if he cannot back them up with actual evidence they aren’t. And that’s what I’m challenging here.

G: That you can’t gracefully move beyond that without having to have the last word is indicative of the reason why you created the shitstorm here with your last article. You have a need for Hollenhund to be wrong and to be ‘quibbling’ whereas your actions are/were justified. You should reflect on why that is and whether its congruent with your attempted reconciliation with the readers of the Spearhead.

O: I have; and you are, ironically, wrong. If you kindly go back to those threads you spoke of, you could count the number of times I actually commented at all.

Nor have I seen you actually speak that which I noted above – look Gunn, being pissed off never did anythning for anybody in and of itself. Now if you want to spend your time being that, be my guest. I on the other hand am interested in actually attempting to do what I can to effect some degree of change. I believe one way I can do that is by writing. If the events of this past week are any indication, I’m doing my job quite well.

O.

Gunn November 5, 2010 at 11:11

My point proven

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 12
Lovekraft November 5, 2010 at 11:22

Laura: “What percentage of MRA activists are homosexual?”

Take note of this question, fellow MRAs. Take note of her name. Ignore until she comes clean as to her agenda. This question is insidious.

And to Laura: The Men’s Rights Movement will be defined by US, through the general and gradual synthesis of ideas you see before your very eyes. Having a woman try to define our cause would be idiocy of the highest order.

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Scattered November 5, 2010 at 11:29

but rather my article that created such a strong controversey

Controversy that had nothing to do with race, yet you come here proposing some kind of alliance (an enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal) while saying “And if we let differences in skin tone continue to divide us”, which is offensive bullshit.

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Tim November 5, 2010 at 13:45

I seem to be the lone white male in agreement with Obsidian. Nobody has to like him. Hell, I don’t know the man nor will we ever meet, just like all of us will never actually meet each other. But who gives a fuck whether we like each other. Don’t you think we could use the roughly 16 million black males there are in the USA? Strength with numbers, correct? Or should we just stay divided and jerk off? All of the above planks Obsidian mentioned are necessary for men, regardless of skin color.

It’s time for the right of men to abort fatherhood, if they choose. Women can abort motherhood, why can’t we abort fatherhood?

IMBRA should be scrapped, also. But we can’t actually do shit if we squabble over who likes who. Moreover, I don’t think I would like Obsidian if I met him in person, but again, who cares? Does anyone want to do business here? Either we agree on the above planks and start writing our representatives or we don’t and just jerk each other off.

Ditto with alimony and child support. There is a lot we men can do, we just need to get up off our asses. The ‘Deadbeat Dad’ registry can be scrapped, and it can be considered bigotry and a hate crime to refer to a man as a ‘deadbeat dad’ -but only if men make it happen.

So, at the end of the day, I am with Obsidian. It might be time to actually do something. What would that be? I’m not sure, but it sounds like no one here is a Democrat. Republicans aren’t much different, really. However, they still believe women are angels and so they are also the party of White Knightery. I can see men marching in the street, however, like they did in Mexico. It just takes will, effort and organization.

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Gunslingergregi November 5, 2010 at 14:38

””””””’Lovekraft November 5, 2010 at 11:22
Laura: “What percentage of MRA activists are homosexual?”

Take note of this question, fellow MRAs. Take note of her name. Ignore until she comes clean as to her agenda. This question is insidious.
””””””””’
It is not insidious. It is merely a question. Isn’t one of the contributers to the spearhead gay?

I don’t think mens rights has anything to fear from gays they aren’t the ones out killing people for no reason and once gay marriage is legalized then they will be getting the treatment in divorce court too lol

Is is apologetic whites who kiss black ass just because it is black that are a problem though especially when that black person hates them.

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Gunslingergregi November 5, 2010 at 14:40

White men are already legally divided from every other human being.

It is the reality.

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Gunn November 5, 2010 at 15:53

@Tim

What exactly is Obsidian bringing to the table here?

Most of the guys here don’t disagree with the concepts that you mention in your post (e.g. men able to terminate financial obligations to unborn children etc). That this was even raised by Obsidian in the context of ‘hey guys, we should all work together on this stuff’ is patronizing beyond belief. There is no argument on these basics.

The argument is with a guy who passive-aggressively dresses up pretty much all his interactions with the guys here in the context of black / white, when the truth is that most of the men here simply don’t have an issue with any of that. If you haven’t read the flamefest that his last article became here, you should dig it up.

The summary of that ‘discussion’ is that Obsidian wrote a piece that was theoretically about game. Theoretically because it was actually an article that criticised guys for being slobs, with the undertone that the ‘W’omen were making an effort, so the guys should too. This was called out for being the pedastalizing bullshit it was, at which point Obsidian suddenly decided that that meant the guys here don’t like to shower(!) When he was further called out on that piece of bullshit, he responded with allegations of racism and ran back to his own blog site where he carried on the badmouthing of the guys here to his tame audience on that site. He’s not been back here since (at least I’ve not seen any comments from him) until this piece where he’s suddenly seen the light after his blog site was brought down by a black woman. Rather than displaying any kind of humility or attempt at reconciliation however, he’s basically saying he’s extending the hand of a black man in friendship, the implication being that we’re racist but he’s making the first move in an effort to take the mens’ movement forward.

This is pure fucking bullshit once again, and the commentors calling it for what it is are absolutely right.

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 15:55

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 16:00

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Tim November 5, 2010 at 17:02

Thanks Laura, but I would like to ask you to please remain out of this just for a little while, and I ask you that respectfully.

@Gunns,

I remember Obsidian’s prior post and it disgusted me; he may or may not recall but I visited his blog and told him as much. I told him he’d just blown it and that he’d lost his credibility. Don’t misunderstand me; it was an insulting post and I blasted him for it.

But men are in a peculiar position today. If we wanted to, we could effect some change. If we really wanted to. Now, I don’t know actually know how to go about doing that. I’m just a guy at my keyboard. But I would not hesitate to organize with anyone, and march, and rally, and do whatever to gain the same rights that women have regarding the issues we’ve mentioned. 16 million black men -that’s a lot of votes to alienate. And when you think about it, ordinary white men and ordinary black men have a lot in common. Obviously Obs is not some ghetto loser, if he is well versed in Thomas Sowell and so on.

John Boehner is House leader, but let’s face it: he’s a white knight. We need male leaders who will speak to male issues and promote males, period. It just doesn’t make sense to do it separately, as two different races, IMO.

If you think about, just think hard about it, I can understand Obsidian’s frustration. 16 million black men cannot accomplish anything in isolation. But add on 100 million white men and that changes things. Let’s be clear: I have more in common with a working class black man than an upper class white man, but maybe that is just me. That isn’t to say blacks can be assholes or not or whites can be assholes or not. The point is, who cares? If you get the job done but you lack manners, I could care less, just so long as you got the job done. It’s not like we’re going to have a group hug or something.

The need for men to band together is nigh upon us, IMO. Right now, we have no reproductive rights. None. But you already know that. So white men are going the way of the black man, slowly and surely. White grrrls are acting trashy, slut-tastic and having illegitimate children. There is no way out of this without organization.

First thing I would demand is Roe for men. My sperm my choice.

Second thing is end mandatory child support. Just see what happens to illegitimacy. Watch it go down to less than 5%.

There is more but you get the point. I’m not sure this is achievable if whites and blacks try to do it separately.

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Joe November 5, 2010 at 17:04

@Laura

If you knew exactly what percentage of us are gay, what conclusion might you draw? What is the difference between 2% and 20% for you? If you say why you want to know rather than just saying it’d be nice to know you’d get better answers. If I said I wanted to know your measurements just because it’d be “nice to know” you’d be cynical wouldn’t you?

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arthur November 5, 2010 at 17:07

Well Obsidian, it looks like your recent experience has only served to reinforce a couple of viewpoints held by a number of MRA’s.

1) It is better to assume that all women are worthless snakes in the grass than to give one the benefit of the doubt and be proven wrong.

2) All men are just one blowjob/stinkfinger away from quitting the movement.

I read your post a while back that the guys are referring to. By insisting that guys “step their game up” to chase these worthless pieces of garbage known as american women you were in the process of proving point number 2. Your experience of having your blog shut down proves point number 1. But, all you lost was a blog. You, when speaking from on high, wanted us guys to step up our collective game in search of one of these snakes. Why, so we can lose our house, income, and freedom?

Are you able to connect the dots from here?

Now that you got “done” by one of these women, you come here looking for your “brothers in arms”. The same brothers that you talked down to and wanted to send off to the slaughterhouse.

No sale.

We, the unwashed masses, were right. And you, the former blogger were wrong.

Your methodology sucks, dude.

Sure, you are all for men’s rights, just like the rest of us. The way to go about it is to starve the beast, not prance like a peacock.

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 17:19

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Joe November 5, 2010 at 17:40

@Laura

My guess is that almost none of us are gay. Of course heterosexual men don’t want to go through life having nothing to do with women unless there’s a very good reason not to. That’s the problem. So many guys have learned the hard way. Many of us have been bullied mercillessly by women. My mother is a manhating bully and I’ve worked for a bunch of mean bitches. Whatever warm feelings I’m supposed to have for women have been killed dead. As far as I can tell I’m incapable of pleasant feelings towards women. I just want to inflict pain and there’s nothing I can do about it. That’s my situation and there are a lot of guys like me.

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 17:51

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J. Durden November 5, 2010 at 18:08

I just don’t think that most heterosexual men want to go through life having nothing to do with women. It wouldn’t be much of a life.

There’s a whole lot more to life than women, hun. As for how many homosexual men are in the movement, it’s hard to say. It’s not like we go around asking everybody “hey, are you white? Are you black? Are you gay?” I know of one prominent homosexual contributor to The Spearhead; though I do not know how public he wants that information to be.

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Joe November 5, 2010 at 18:10

@Laura

My issues with women stem mostly from my experience with women. My mom is just one of those women. So are you. You’re an arrogant asshole and that’s about it. Women choose assholes. That’s the big difference.

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W.F. Price November 5, 2010 at 18:31

Okay. That’s really sad though. Your issues with women probably stem mostly from your relationship with your mom. I know a lot of the men on here have had some bad experiences with women, which explains why they have such negative feelings towards them. There are quite a few women that have issues with men.

Laura, rather than get defensive and suggest guys just have “mommy issues,” why don’t you hold the women who have done men wrong responsible?

Is it possible for a woman to ever stand up for men against malicious women? I’m not sure, but all it takes for a woman to get a gang of heavily armed men to come after her husband with machine guns is a weepy phone call and a few lies. So when are women going to come to the defense of men?

I’m not holding my breath…

In the meanwhile, you don’t have any right to be defensive — you, as a woman, hold all the cards.

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 18:35

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 18:42

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 18:44

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W.F. Price November 5, 2010 at 18:48

I’ve never called the police on anyone and I certainly wouldn’t on my own husband.

Well, how would you deal with a woman who did?

You might look down on her, but you’d probably give her a pass, right?

How would you feel if a man called the authorities on his wife during a divorce and falsely accused her of fraud? She might not have an automatic rifle shoved in her face, but it could be very uncomfortable. Do you think such a man should get smooth away with it because he was “emotional”?

Do men ever do this to their wives? I’ve never heard of it…

Face it, Laura: you women have a lot more to answer for these days.

I understand that you might be in a mood now, but this isn’t the place to work it out. Go take out your aggression on some bitch or slut in your town — then you’d be doing everyone some good.

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zed November 5, 2010 at 18:49

J. Durden,
There is more to life than men.

Then, why don’t you go somewhere else and have that life you are talking about?

Notice that the men here are not on a woman’s board attention-whoring, but you are on a men’s board doing just that.

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Höllenhund November 5, 2010 at 18:50

“G: The things that you deem as ‘quibbling’ by Hollenhund are in fact perfectly valid criticisms of your usual style of writing.

O: Not if he cannot back them up with actual evidence they aren’t. And that’s what I’m challenging here. ”

It’d be kind of difficult to do that now that your old blog is deleted, Obsidian.

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 18:54

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 18:56

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W.F. Price November 5, 2010 at 18:58

If you had just deleted my original comment (I was in a mood this morning) all this trouble could have been avoided.

A mood from time to time can be excused. But just try to refrain from picking fights with the guys here when you’re in one. In fact, go pick a fight with another woman — it will make your marriage stronger and ultimately you will feel more self-assured.

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Höllenhund November 5, 2010 at 19:07

Laura,

“I just don’t think that most heterosexual men want to go through life having nothing to do with women. It wouldn’t be much of a life. ”

Most of them don’t want to indeed, but for men it is important to recognize, as others have stated, that there is much more to life than women. Any man who fails to recognize that is mentally weak and will always psychologically depend on women’s approval.

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J. Durden November 5, 2010 at 19:07

For a second (viewing comments from the bottom up), I thought zed had somehow misquoted me and was telling me to GTFO. I was like, whaaaaaaat?

Anyway, Laura, I don’t see how telling me that there is more to life than men is relevant. Did I somewhere make a claim that the only thing in life that matters is men? I don’t think so. You, however, claimed that a life without women wouldn’t be much of a life at all.

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Laura November 5, 2010 at 19:08

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Höllenhund November 5, 2010 at 19:09

Laura,

“Besides why do I have to get lumped in with all the other women, a lot of times we don’t even like each other that much.”

Given that women have a herd mentality and instinctively side with other women against men, such an attitude is warranted.

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zed November 5, 2010 at 19:18

Just go away and annoy your husband (if you have one), Laura. Or else, make him make a contribution to the spearhead for us having to put up with you so he doesn’t have to.

You are getting lumped in with other women because you are acting exactly like them.

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Kim November 5, 2010 at 19:22

If you had just deleted my original comment (I was in a mood this morning) all this trouble could have been avoided.

AHA! it’s all Mr. Price’s fault for not deleting that comment…I knew a man must be responsible somehow.

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rob November 5, 2010 at 19:50

Look, Welmer needs to find a replacement for his lost ad-income.

I propose the $1 pool system. (or some suitable figure. $5?)

Everytime we identify a female trolling for male attention, we set up a pool system like a sports pool, based upon how long it takes the troll to leave.

The winner gets half, Welmer gets half.

We call it the Spearhead Lotto.

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rob November 5, 2010 at 19:59

Or, we could play games of Fembot Bingo once a week/month (?) for $5 or $10 a card.

Same deal, half to the Spearhead, half to the winner.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3
rob November 5, 2010 at 20:27

I’ve played Fembot Bingo before, and it is actually quite fun!

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Russ November 5, 2010 at 21:06

The problems in the White and black communities are completely different. In fact, they are exact negatives of one another. Black males serve the same function (albeit for different reasons) in the black community that White females serve in the White community. Like White females the majority of black males are a gaggle of preening, whining, arrogant, self-absorbed, dancing-loving, perfume-wearing, hedonistic, sense-of-entitlement-having, attention-seeking, hyper-emotional, highly-suggestible, dress-up queens that are used, by our (Jewish) masters, to divide and conquer.

You pretend to extend a “black” hand in friendship and then you sign-off with the pompous negroism, “now adjourn your asses.” If you really wanted to get along, you’d learn how we do things and do it.

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Tim November 5, 2010 at 21:40

@Russ,

While I agree with you to a certain extent, the point is, who cares? Why do we have to like someone’s style and personality when we all agree on the substance? If someone has the same political agenda as me, and can throw me a million votes, why should I care what they do in their private life?

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Migu November 6, 2010 at 05:32

Hello my favorite racist.

Are you apologizing, or just trying to cut a temporary deal?

Your peace offering stinks to high heaven. Admitting you were wrong means doing it, not seeking a compromise. You blew it fine, welcome back. You blew it halfway and we blew it halfway, fuck off.

Here I’ll do it. Calling you a nigger was stupid and got me nothing but grief, no matter how well reasoned and caveated in academic language it was.

It was wrong and I will not be using it as a tactic in the future.

There is my olive branch motherfucker.

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Russ November 6, 2010 at 07:20

Tim,

Obsidian can’t “throw you a million votes” or a million of anything else for that matter. That’s the point. He’s a racist asshole that has no support in the black community so he wants to try to insinuate himself into our community. He’s a leech who brings nothing to the table. That’s what I was getting at in my comments above, black males, like White females are inherently useless leeches – they simply do not benefit the White Men’s Movement. There should be no doubt about the fact that, that is what it is – a White Men’s Movement. Blacks make-up about 50% of the Anglosphere (presumably the pool of potential readers of a site like The Spearhead) and yet black males are probably less than 5% of MRAs. The reason for this is that, as I stated above, they are given all of the privileges in their communities that White females are given in ours. For precisely the same reason – they are used by Jews to divide, conquer, and ultimately destroy the White race.

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Russ November 6, 2010 at 07:32

Tim,

Obsidian can’t “throw you a million votes” or a million of anything else for that matter. That’s the point. He’s a racist asshole that has no support in the black community so he wants to try to insinuate himself into our community. He’s a leech who brings nothing to the table. That’s what I was getting at in my comments above, black males, like White females are inherently useless leeches – they simply do not benefit the White Men’s Movement. There should be no doubt about the fact that, that is what it is – a White Men’s Movement. Blacks make-up about 50% of the Anglosphere (presumably the pool of potential readers of a site like The Spearhead) and yet black males are probably less than 5% of MRAs. The reason for this is that, as I stated above, they are given all of the privileges in their communities that White females are given in ours. For precisely the same reason – they are used by Jews to divide, conquer, and ultimately destroy the White race.

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zed November 6, 2010 at 07:34

Everytime we identify a female trolling for male attention, we set up a pool system like a sports pool, based upon how long it takes the troll to leave.

Or, we could play games of Fembot Bingo once a week/month (?) for $5 or $10 a card.

Same deal, half to the Spearhead, half to the winner.

Or, guys could learn more about Game and learn to recognize when a femi-troll is shit-testing them.

Our last 2 femi-trolls have been running classic grrl-Game, classic-shit tests, classic negs. And a whole lot of guys have gotten hooked into it like classic herbs trying to justify themselves and “‘splain to Lucy” like they would to a man something she damn well already knows and is trying her best to obfuscate.

Years ago I ran across the phrase “hypothalamic pause.” In general it meant when you found yourself in the middle of a reflexive urge to respond to something, pause and think about what you were reacting to and why.

Women are born with the instinctive knowledge of how to hit men’s buttons and play them like violins. The reason Game works is because it gives men knowledge of the game women are playing and how to turn it around and use it against them.

Instead of diving headfirst into their frame when a femi-troll shows up, and digging in like they were drilling for oil, the first thing men need to do is grab control of the frame away from them. Since we are dealing with Internet non-entities here, and not women in the real world that we are interested in bedding, the best frame to use is “run along, little girl, and go annoy someone else.”

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Scattered November 6, 2010 at 07:41

Jesus, past a point shes like half the freaking comments.

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zed November 6, 2010 at 08:05

If someone has the same political agenda as me, and can throw me a million votes, why should I care what they do in their private life?

@Tim,

Russ has already addressed the “throw me a million votes” issue, although I don’t think he is correct in his assertion that “Blacks make-up about 50% of the Anglosphere.” I think about 15% is more accurate.

What makes you think that this OP indicates the same political agenda you have? Set all your “white guilt” aside for a moment – which is mostly what the OP was trying to play on – and examine the circumstances and what was said.

No one got the “Juan Williams Treatment”, not even Juan Williams. Juan just got the “Larry Summers Treatment” by letting his guard down and one small non-PC statement slip out. The only thing Juan Williams and Obsidian have in common is that they are black, which is being spun into being the only issue here.

What little I know about what went down comes from Ferdinand’s blog. Apparently Obsidian was stirring up shit with a few people across multiple blogs – either their own, or ones where they comment regularly. He pissed off enough people, or pissed off one person enough, that they complained and he got his free service taken away.

Cry me a river.

Then, once he is “homeless”, comes over here, indirectly calls the rest of us a bunch of racist assholes, extends a “black hand” of friendship, and hopes that white guilt will win the day and a bunch of “race-herbs” will fall all over themselves trying to prove that they are not “racists.” Then, he starts playing “black White Knight” by talking about the “everyday Sista out there who is just trying to live her life.”

Those “everyday Sistas out there just trying to live their lives” have never even been mentioned here at the-Spearhead before Obsidian showed up. He was the one who brought it up, and tried to project it on us. We talk about issues important to men, and it seems that the only men who just have to drag race into it are black men. At Diary of a Tired Black Man forum, and one of the forums which popped up in its aftermath, I observed that race almost always trumps sex. Sadly, it seems that it almost always trumps everything else.

As many have observed, blacks show a strange loyalty to the party which only 50-60 years ago was well known as the segregation party. George Wallace and Lester Maddox were not Republicans. Strom Thurmond tried to form the Dixie-crats, not the Dixie-publicans.

I admire Obsidian’s intellect, and I think his “in yer face” attack style could be useful if used against a common enemy. But, one lesson I learned from my stint at DOATBM is that there are a lot of black hustlers who will be your “friend” as long as you are useful to them, and then drop you like a hot rock the second they latch on to someone even more useful to their purposes.

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Russ November 6, 2010 at 08:20

Zed,

Blacks are about 12% or so of the American population but by Anglosphere I’m including African and Afro-Caribbean nations that now speak English. I think 50% is close to accurate.

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zed November 6, 2010 at 08:30

by Anglosphere I’m including African and Afro-Caribbean nations that now speak English.

Thanks for the correction. Are you excluding the UK, Australia, NZ, and India (the largest English-speaking country in the world) from your definition of Anglosphere? It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but never clearly defined.

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Scattered November 6, 2010 at 08:49

When I see the word I tend to assume UK, Australia, NZ, US and Canada.

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Russ November 6, 2010 at 08:51

Yes, I was thinking of the UK, Aus, and NZ, but I had forgotten India. I’m not sure exactly what percentage of the country speaks English. Infoplease (I think they use the CIA Factbook as the primary source for their stats) seems to indicate that less than 30% of the population speaks English. If it’s the case that 25% of Indians speak English then the black percentage of the Anglosphere would probably be about 30-35%.

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rob November 6, 2010 at 08:54

Our last 2 femi-trolls have been running classic grrl-Game, classic-shit tests, classic negs. And a whole lot of guys have gotten hooked into it like classic herbs trying to justify themselves and “‘splain to Lucy” like they would to a man something she damn well already knows and is trying her best to obfuscate.

The 100% predictable result of what happens when men splain’ TO Lucy rather than explain to eachother what Lucy is doing.

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Firepower November 6, 2010 at 09:04

Tim November 5, 2010 at 17:02

If you think about, just think hard about it, I can understand Obsidian’s frustration. 16 million black men cannot accomplish anything in isolation.

32 million black men AND women haven’t accomplished much with 50 years of Affirmative Action giving them Government sanctioned leap-frogging ability to jump ahead into colleges and jobs over better qualified white MALES. Unless you count the total destruction of all of America’s formerly great urban areas as an accomplishment.

Because they get to check that race box on the form, one sista/brutha with a C- average be way better than a white boy with an A-.

Your entire post is a treatise on the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam – an appeal to ignorance – and a whole slew of others I don’t care to delve into.

Yet again, you are one of those who bases his entire REAL life/moral ethos upon a Transformers/He-Man episode in which The Hero displays his Superior Moral Intellect by joining forces with his (former) antagonist, after a cliched sit down come-to-Jesus meeting.

As a man, I will instruct you this ONCE that this fable does not happen enough in REAL life to even merit the waste of time it is taking me to point you to this obvious fact.

The Rodney King-ism of “can’t we just all get along!” is the plaintive wail of a child-man disillusioned that, indeed, the lion does NOT lay down with the lambiekins.

Perhaps you have not been psychologically tied to the reality of this. Go live in a black urban ghetto for 4 years and acquire a 4-year degree of a different sort; you may yet learn.

Or, take the example that Obsidian the Obfuscator “once” was on the side of “Men’s Rights” but as he ultimately played his hand he revealed it all boils down to race in the end. Everything does. You’ll find no counterpart to yourself as Great Noble Peacemaker on their side: Have your cry and get over it.

Know thine enemy.

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Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 09:20

FP,
Your posts reek of hyperbole and purple prose in extremis…and for what? I mean, what good does any of that serve, other than to act as the umpteenth target of your frustrations? How does any of that move the ball forward?

What Tim is saying makes perfect sense – anyone who knows anything about politics or war strategy, knows that you need allies in order to win. That’s just the way things work, and from where I sit, the MRM certainly doesn’t time to be sniping at each other. Nor is that a “come to Jesus” thing for me – I’ve felt this way from day one. I’m sorry, but I simply don’t see what holding all Women everywhere, forever and ever amen, as “the enemy” gonna do for me or anyone else. My beef ain’t with all Women. My beef is with those Women who are in the market place of ideas in one way or another, who want to foist their views that are often the basis of either public policy or social custom, onto the rest of us. It’s my view that they can be challenged successfully; that is why I write. But I also see the need for a political component of this thing, too. Exactly in what way or shape should that take? Good question – but at least that’s better than merely being a spoiler. Which is what you and quite frankly, a number of folks in the MRM are doing/being.

Put your hatred of me aside for about five minutes and simply ask yourself this – what are you accomplishing by spewing out so much vitriol ad nauseum? Is it making the lives of Men any better? Because by the looks of things, I would say, no. That doesn’t mean adopt a Bobby McFerrin outlook on things. But it does mean being about a bit more than merely selling wolf tickets.

Holla back

O.

Firepower November 6, 2010 at 09:43

Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 09:20

What Tim is saying makes perfect sense – anyone who knows anything about politics or war strategy, knows that you need allies in order to win.

Ugh.
WW 2 Britain and France certainly needed allies – the USA didn’t need either, even to win against BOTH Germany and Japan.

WE don’t need allies – YOUR people do. To pay for their food, to pay for their 13 illegitimate babies, to get into college, etc.

I don’t “hate” you as that would take effort to even think of you. I avoided being irritated with the tender menfolk here for months
and actually hadn’t thought about the bruthubabble until you came back here to whine about your Majestic African Brothas, Sistas , Kings and Mighty Queens…throwing your ass under the bus.

I’ve written PLAINLY what I’ve had to say about you – and TO you – and shall only do so if it further amuses me.

If I wanted to yap pointlessly against a tiresome, self-important princess, I’d argue with my grandad’s cat.

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Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 09:56

Whew, all that bile, FP; you sure I’m really worth it?

LOL

O.

PS: And you couldn’t be more wrong about WW2; without the intel etc that both the French and the Brits supplied, among other things, the USA would not have won the European theater. Maybe along with arguing with Gramps’ kitty, you could also consider reading some of his history books? ;)

J. Durden November 6, 2010 at 10:12

History? History pretty much goes like this:

AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!

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Firepower November 6, 2010 at 10:37

Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 09:56

Whew, all that bile, FP; you sure I’m really worth it?

Word of advice: when seeking sympathy/clemency from those you wish to sway – try humility instead of the self-righteous act. Huey Newton you ain’t.

Life isn’t always a free pass for the black either, unless he’s a gangstarapper like Dr. Dre, Lil’ Wayne, Flava Flav – or a star athlete who hates black pussy like Tiger or Kobe.

You’re just an irritant.

PS
Of course you’re not worth it. It’s not worth $100 to have a maid clean my house, but I have to do it anyway,

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 10:51

@Russ, Zed, and FP,

It’s kind of amusing I’d be associated with white guilt, and then Russ mentioning the Jews, and then FP. How old are you FP? 21? 22? Go home son and let the men talk. Or better yet, go write some haikus to RV or SD, you fucking toolbox. How’s that working out for you? LOL.

By seeking common ground with Obsidian, that doesn’t necessarily mean I want to go golfing with him, and I am certain he feels the same way.

Look, what has happened to the black family in the past 40 years is coming soon to a theater near you. Whites are next in line. It won’t be long before whites grrrls have an illegitimacy rate hovering around 50%. But it doesn’t have to be this way. We don’t have to be disposable sperm donors. Do you really think when you get up to the big leagues, in Washington DC, that all those political allies like each other? LOL. Be serious. All those men (and women) posing in front of the camera shaking hands couldn’t give a fuck about each other; it is all about power. That’s politics.

So look at the bigger picture, is all I am saying. Politics makes strange bedfellows, as the old saying goes. White men and black men combined have no power beneath the jackboot of modern institutionalized feminism. Are we going to keep our eyes on the prize or not? Are you going to respond to me with a diversion, perhaps a diatribe against the Jews…an essay on white guilt…or maybe how some white man was wronged sometime in history?

Or, we can get back to the matters at hand:

1. Roe for Men

2. End to government-coerced child support.

3. Mandatory paternity testing.

4. End to IMBRA.

5. 50/50 default custody arrangement in the event of divorce.

And on and on. What will it be? You decide. Again -I’m not asking you to write me an essay on why you don’t like black people. I couldn’t give a tinker’s damn about the inner machinations of your heart, and I expect no one to care about mine. What I would like to know is, what would you like to do about the subject we are discussing, which is, the advancement of men’s rights?

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Firepower November 6, 2010 at 11:03

Tim November 6, 2010 at 10:51

@Russ, Zed, and FP,

FP. How old are you FP? 21? 22?

pssht – So what if I have a decade over you.
For, if you think that a 21 year-old writes as I, you must be a sprout…
With ADD, for you comprehend not one iota what I wrote.

Your incessant missionary do-gooder zeal is as refreshing and wholesome as an episode of Brady Bunch and just as valuable.

Bless me Father

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Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 11:09

Here, here Tim. Now, that’s what I’m talking about – and I notice, as soon as we bring the conversation back to that, the conversation, stops.

Fascinating.

Moreover, let me say that I do not dislike or hate you and the vast majority of fellas here at The Spearhead, in any way; how could I, given that I don’t even know many of you? I thought you had to know someone fairly well in order to hate them. Or even dislike them?

And what you said is right on the money – as I said in my post above, we have a lot bigger fish to fry here. I submitted this post to Welmer because I saw the serious danger(s) afoot. In fact, it is my understanding that a number of bloggers in the manosphere have met a similar fate as myself in as many weeks. I don’t see any of that as an accident, Tim. There is definitely an attempt to shut voices in the manosphere down, and we need not only to unite to combat this, but we also need to sharpen our spears so that we hit the right targets and for the right reasons. My new and improved blog will be a heck of a lot harder to take down, because of the things I learned from this little episode. I’m all for self-improvement.

Anyway, yea, let’s focus on what really matters, shall we?

O.

Scattered November 6, 2010 at 11:16

By seeking common ground with Obsidian

What common ground? By taking his hand you have confessed to the charge of racism as implied by the article. To that I say get fucked.

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Firepower November 6, 2010 at 11:20

Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 11:09

Here, here Tim. Now, that’s what I’m talking about – and I notice, as soon as we bring the conversation back to that, the conversation, stops.

The convo stops because it takes each of you 30 minutes to write a response.

Moreover, let me say that I do not dislike or hate you and the vast majority of fellas here at The Spearhead, in any way; how could I, given that I don’t even know many of you? I thought you had to know someone fairly well in order to hate them. Or even dislike them?

Unless the hatee is George Bush, The Man, “whitey”…or James Earl Ray.
ding ding ding! You thought wrong.

I’ll repeat for you: when seeking sympathy/clemency from those you wish to sway – try humility instead of the self-righteous act.

For Ebonics speakers: “Yo, be chillin mah brutha and whatnot – keep it 4realz dont be frontin knowwhatimsayin?”

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Karma November 6, 2010 at 11:37

Mu’Min Bey- aka Obsidian Files has stalked numerous women on the Internet. He got exactly what he deserved. People need to read the First Amendment if they believe what he was doing is protected under Freedom of Speech clause, because it is not. As a 42 year old man Mu’Min should know better. You can’t harass women on various Internet sites, follow them around, use women’s names in all your posts to gain traffic to your site, call them b*tches, say they’re incompetent, repost their entire articles on your site & post a picture of the person(s) when he had no authorization to publish, without repercussions. It’s not about WordPress not agreeing with the content. It’s about copyright infringement. No company is going to take a chance being sued for copyright for some unknown douchebag who can’t follow simple directions. So he got what was coming to him. In life you will get much further being nice to people than you will stalking them and demanding they respond to your idiocy. It is no surprise to me that Mu’Min is a 40+ loser, who has never attended college a day in his life, spent two years in prison, and publishes under this pseudonym “Obsidian Files”. Karma is a…and clearly he chose the wrong one to mess with.

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Gx1080 November 6, 2010 at 12:00

First, to get some things out of the way:

I love the rating system, it makes my scrolling wheel see less abuse.

Men, really. You don’t have to even see the comments of femtrolls, so why the fuck are you answering them? You are simply feeding the troll, Game or not.

That out:

Obs, you are using race-baiting to ask us to take the high moral ground, but the problems with that is:

a)That doesn’t work. The history of the firsts MRA forums, like DOABM proves that.

b)Our enemies have mo morals. C’mon, you should have realized that for now.

c)The desire of having the high moral ground, most of the time, doesn’t come from a sense of good and wrong, it comes from a desire to prove your superiority despite being in disadvantage. “I’m so awesome that I can defeat my oponents with a hand tied at my back”. That’s a luxury that we cannot give.

I understand from where that confusion comes from. After all, didn’t the victorious defeated their vicious enemies while keeping their honor in the past wars? Problem is, is not the whole story. Napoleon said: “History is a myth agreed upon”. Win first, worry about that later. Life is not a TV show.

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CashingOut November 6, 2010 at 12:18

32 million black men AND women haven’t accomplished much with 50 years of Affirmative Action giving them Government sanctioned leap-frogging ability to jump ahead into colleges and jobs over better qualified white MALES. Unless you count the total destruction of all of America’s formerly great urban areas as an accomplishment.

The whole argumment with Obsidian aside, why do people say this like 1) Affirmative Action benefits anyone, or 2) that Affirmative Action was meant to benefit anyone. It’s as though I were to say “50 years of Americian Olympians training at the Kiddie Pool hasn’t gotten us one gold medal in the Olympics” with the expectation and prior proof that Kiddie Pools make people better swimmers than the Regular Pool.

The silly argument that Blacks have failed “despite” Affirmative Action implies that AA is actually helpful. It isn’t, nor was it ever designed to be. Same thing goes on with food aid in Africa: many African politicians and spokespeople have gone on record as saying “stop sending the damn food, stop sending the money, let us sort out our own problems, ” because sending the food and money only supports and props up the tyranies already in power, and doesn’t let the people find viable alternatives to their situations. People go “oh, why can’t these idiots get it right despite all the food and money we send them?” They don’t realize that if we weren’t sending them money and food, there would have been a coup long ago and people with sense would have taken power. Of course this isn’t an accident: we’re good at helping people into ditches for our own benefit.

Take a look at North Korea: poor, impoverished, people trying to escape into CHINA ffs. Every month Kim Jong Il goes between pointing nukes at various people, then demanding food aid from the same people he just got done pointing nukes at. And he gets it, every month. If we were serious about getting rid of NK, why not just let them starve? Because that would go against a whole lot of our interests, and SK’s interest, one of which is “not being immediately next to one of the largest most aggressive Communist powers in the world.”

Unfortunately, in order to argue in defense of Black people at all effectively, it seems you need to be an expert on Black history, which I currently am not. It’s a lot easier for someone to come in, say “50 years of affirmative action, jack shit, must all be coons, Jew lovers, etc” than it is to in detail enumerate the large and small inventions that you are using that came from Black minds and Black hands, to point out that every Black person is the recepient of Affirmative Action, nor is every Black person in college there because of Affirmative Action, or to note that White people have been fucking up shit in their own communities since the beginning of time without the help of Black people. And most of the time, I don’t. Much like arguing with a feminist, I could drop a logic bomb to take out an area the size of San Francisco, and the target would use some hypocritical argument to disregard what was just said, thus wasting my time as much as if I had been typing into a vaccum. I think the target of covering my ass and escaping to greener shores with like minded men (regardless of race) is much more effective. Ironically, the White people who use White to qualify superiority don’t seem to have learned the lesson that many Black posters on here have learned the painful and hard way: that just because someone share’s your skin color does not mean that they share your interests, goals, or beliefs. Indeed, that might be the person you might want to be running away from the fastest because they know exactly where and how you live as opposed to The Other.

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Firepower November 6, 2010 at 12:27

I’d like to take a special moment to interrupt this very public, overdue and deserved buttfucking of Obsidian (and Timmy) to tell Da O that he wansn’t so much “Juan Williamsed” as he was Clarence Thomased.

That travesty seemed to suit his race quite well – even to the Left’s October celebration of Anita Hill’s refusal to apologize.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/us/politics/20thomas.html

Such a strong Sista (capital s, for sure) punished by her current cushy, highly-paid, tenured, academic/government career. We citizens certainly are harsh in our justice.

Now, back to your rectalrooting of our two lovebirds…

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Firepower November 6, 2010 at 12:30

CashingOut November 6, 2010 at 12:18

The whole argumment with Obsidian aside…snarf snort drool drool…st because they know exactly where and how you live as opposed to The Other.

dude – you did a crappy job washing my windshield Friday. nice to see your back on the Adderol.

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CashingOut November 6, 2010 at 12:57

Correction to above post:

This:

to point out that every Black person is the recepient of Affirmative Action, nor is every Black person in college there because of Affirmative Action,

Is supposed to be this:

to point out that not every Black person is the recepient of Affirmative Action, nor is every Black person in college there because of Affirmative Action,

Sometimes I really wish we had an edit function, even if only for 10 minutes or so.

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zed November 6, 2010 at 13:24

The silly argument that Blacks have failed “despite” Affirmative Action implies that AA is actually helpful. It isn’t, nor was it ever designed to be. Same thing goes on with food aid in Africa: many African politicians and spokespeople have gone on record as saying “stop sending the damn food, stop sending the money, let us sort out our own problems, ” because sending the food and money only supports and props up the tyranies already in power, and doesn’t let the people find viable alternatives to their situations. People go “oh, why can’t these idiots get it right despite all the food and money we send them?” They don’t realize that if we weren’t sending them money and food, there would have been a coup long ago and people with sense would have taken power. Of course this isn’t an accident: we’re good at helping people into ditches for our own benefit.

Give that man an entire box of Cuban cigars!!!!

Blacks, if they have failed, have not failed “despite Affirmative Action” but rather BECAUSE OF Affirmative Action. If you want to destroy a group of people, the absolute best way to do that is to make them believe that they are totally helpless and dependent on handouts from you. If they believe “without our handouts (jobs, food, whatever) you will surely perish”, then the last thing they are going to do is vote your party out of power.

A great phrase that sums it all up is “the soft bigotry of low expectations”, as well as “the soft supremacy of do-gooding.”

Take a look at the following chart from Dalrock in his post Driving a stake in the heart of the US marriage strike myth.
http://dalrock.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/percent_pop_married_p65.jpg (I would put it in this post, but Bill seems to have disabled image embedding)

Notice that in 1965, when the Moynihan Report came out, marriage rates for both blacks and whites of both sexes were well above 50%. However, they have been falling ever since. When the report came out, the “professional negroes” of the day went nuts about it being a case of “blaming the victims.” If members of their race actually achieved self-sufficiency, those precursors to race-baiters like Sharpton and Jackson would lose their cushy, high paid, NGO jobs – and along with them, their status. It was just one of many examples of race hustlers selling out their own. I learned some really ugly history during my stint at DoaTBM – many Africans sold into slavery were sold by their own chiefs.

Even though the information about what was destroying their families has been out there for 45 years, the black community has not yet been able to do much about it, not even slowing the rate at which it happened, much less reversing the trend.

The trend is not just starting to spread to the white community, it has been part of the trend all along. The significantly higher number of whites in the US has done a bit to mask the trend – just as the statistics that marriage is alive and well in the upper socioeconomic classes has masked the trend that it is in a shambles everywhere else. Due to their much larger numbers, there have always been more whites in poverty than blacks, in terms of absolute numbers – it is just the percentages which make these issues appear to be more of a black problem than a white one.

Does anyone really think that large numbers of black men are suddenly going to start voting against the people who think so little of them that they believe blacks cannot survive without AA, etc.? If they have known for 45 years what was killing their families and could not do anything to stop it, what makes people think that whites can do any better – even with the help of black men?

As CashingOut so eloquently put it, the best hope any of us has is spitting in any hand which offers us a handout, and refusing to get down into that ditch they are digging for us.

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 13:30

@Firepoodle,

I’m not the one who follows female bloggers around like a lost puppy trying to get a pat on the tummy, LOL. And they unanimously reject you. I’ll give you a hint: the haiku -it ain’t workin’ babe. Now go play in your sandbox, son. Let the men talk.

Now, let’s talk about the real issues:

1. Roe for Men

2. End to government-coerced child support.

3. Mandatory paternity testing.

4. End to IMBRA.

5. 50/50 default custody arrangement in the event of divorce.

@Scattered,

By taking his hand you have confessed to the charge of racism as implied by the article.

Who cares? How many times do I have to repeat that? So what if I am a racist? What does that have to do with the advancement of men’s rights?

@Karma,

Obsidian Files has stalked numerous women on the Internet.

Who cares? How many times do I have to repeat that? What does that have to do with the advancement of men’s rights?

@Gx1080,

you are using race-baiting to ask us to take the high moral ground…

And you are responding both unintelligently and emotionally. Remember: we are in the business of advancing men’s rights, end of. Anything that distracts from that, or that you allow distract, means you don’t really care about men’s rights, or just not enough. Moreover, if 100 million white men are seriously threatened by such a numerically insignificant number of black men as to stop discussing the substantive issues men face, then that tells me you are genuinely disinterested in the advancement of men’s rights. After all, it is you who are not addressing men’s rights.

@CashingOut,

That is interesting what you say about affirmative action. Thank you. Now what are your thoughts on men’s rights?

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 13:37

@Zed,

As CashingOut so eloquently put it, the best hope any of us has is spitting in any hand which offers us a handout, and refusing to get down into that ditch they are digging for us.

In practical terms, what does this mean? Don’t do anything? Don’t vote? Don’t organize? Nihilism? What do you want to do?

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zed November 6, 2010 at 13:43

What do you want to do?

Read the book of zed – I laid it all out there.

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J. Durden November 6, 2010 at 13:43

Tim, most historical attempts to organize men to do anything tangible have been fraught with disaster. The stock answer to your question is MGTOW.

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Gx1080 November 6, 2010 at 14:13

@Tim

Wait, what? I’m putting black men on the table? No, you and Obsidian are. I don’t care about men’s rights? If I didn’t care, why I would bother to point out why the changes than YOU and Obsidian are suggesting have been suggested before and didn’t work, huh? Do you read what you write? (Because is obvious that you don’t read what I write).

And I wasn’t being emotional. Here’s an emotional answer:

You are a fucking idiot.

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 14:22

@Zed,

Could you summarize that for me, in a paragraph, please?

@J. Durden,

You are correct, and indeed I am a MGHOW. The only thing I can conclude is we men have a masochistic streak. Rather than address the substantive issues that were raised here, it seems the men would rather squabble like women, over who hurt whose feelings; who said this, who said that. Don’t you find it curious, that at a moment of supreme opportunity, men cannot focus on the prize? We could make equal custody the default position in the event of divorce. We could actually put an end to the current child support system. This does not mean that men would stop paying child support; just that it would be voluntary. Women would have no choice but to restore their honor and virtue. Today they have neither. Mandatory paternity testing could be the law of the land; only men are stopping this, with their own intransigence. Men could also have the reproductive choice to abort fatherhood, at will. None of this is rocket science, it just takes will. Don’t you find it odd that men would sabotage all of this because someone said something to someone and someone’s feewings got hurt?

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 14:27

@GX,

If I didn’t care, why I would bother to point out why the changes than YOU and Obsidian are suggesting have been suggested before and didn’t work, huh?

Really? When was that? Who put the issues I mentioned -specifically, the five planks I laid out – forward? Who advanced those causes? When? What is the name of the organization?

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J. Durden November 6, 2010 at 14:41

Tim,

I advocate that small brotherhoods are a good idea. I mentioned this in another thread but kind of got shot down in the comments. When I have a more solid proposal I’ll bring it up again. But we’re not going to see a large, tangible “political force” (so to speak) crop up overnight. That’s for sure.

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Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 16:22

“Karma”

Isn’t interesting that someone who can’t, or won’t even choose a name other than “Karma” has to stoop to taking potshots from the shadows at me? Let’s review the facts:

I’ve never referred to Women as “bitches” on my blog. Not that I have a problem with the word, I just didn’t do that as standard practice.

My personal life has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand, true or false (most of it false, btw), nor does the empty charges of “stalking”. But what they do serve, is to once again, attack the Man, rather than his argument.

Yes, there was a matter of technicality with the use of a picture – but let’s keep everything in perspective here. The picture was posted on a publicly accessible website, for the purposes of promoting the appearance of the subject of my post; indeed, my response to her article that was published in a major magazine, was the topic of said nationally syndicated radio program. The problem was, that she simply couldn’t handle my masterful debunking of everything she wrote; I still haeve the deleted posts where she harrassed me and my readers with more than a dozen posts, which I simply took down. I could have had her reported, but where I come from, such things are well…bitchy. I just took them down and kept on getting up.

What this episode shows very well – and again, this, against the backdrop of both Juan Williams AND now, Keith Olbermann, to say nothing of the targetting of other bloggers in the manosphere – is that there are Women among us who have no qualms about using the law in the most perverted of ways, to pu nish those they otherwise cannot in the open marketplace of ideas. Or, put another way, because they basically suck when it comes to rhetoric and debate, they fall back on the Damsel in Distress Card – whose day has come and passed, thank God.

This little incident has only strengthened my resolve, it in no way has hampered it. And, I would wager a princely sum that YOU, “Karma”, are indeed a Woman – it is a Woman’s way to foist such a weak-willed, ad hominem attack as you have done above, none of which had anything to do with the facts. Please know that my blog will not only be fully restored, but will be beefed up, this time – just for you.

:)

More to come – count on it

O.

zed November 6, 2010 at 16:24

Could you summarize that for me, in a paragraph, please?

“…, and the worst strategy of all is to besiege walled cities.”
- Sun Tzu

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chic noir November 6, 2010 at 16:29

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Obsidian November 6, 2010 at 16:48

Tim,
Again, we see the conversation come to a virtual standstill, when it comes to the issues you and I have enunciated. Firepower has nothning to say about the matter, GX1080 can’t give you a straight answer to your questions, and instead the conversation turns to something that is so far beyond the pale of what has real and lasting effect on all our lives as Men – Affirmative Action? I mean, really. Of course, if we’re really going to be serious about dealing with that issue, I suppose we’ll have to deal with the fact that others get and recieve it even moreso than African Americans do…starting with White Women. They’re not the only ones, to be sure, but they are among the more notable groups. Personally, from a tactical and resources standpoint, even given what I’ve noted above its kind of a timesuck for the MRM. The issues you and I have laid on the table though, are not only more pressing for us as a whole but are in my view more achievable, than merely griping about AA.

So, the question turns to, after we get more numbers and allies on board, exactly how do we go about getting those things on the list achieved? I don’t have any hard and fast answers here, but what I will say is the first step is trying to find out what avenues are available to us. Personally, I think some of these issues are more amenable to the private sphere while others more to the larger, or public sphere. For example, I think RFM’s gonna happen no matter what, for a number of reasons, but among them, because guys are simply voting with their feet. Yes, they can be arrested, but with law enforcement agencies around the country being stretched to the limit already as it is, if for no other reason, actual enforcement of coerced CS and the like will lessen and/or be less effective. Another reason why I see de facto RFM happening more and more is because of the economy – as we all can see, Obama simply can’t put a dent in the current unemployment rate, which has actually gone up since he took office, and which has remained that way. This will have a marked impact on matters as economics always drives human behavior, at least in more recent times in human history anyway. So, even if the courts don’t give a de jure nod to RFM, it’s going to happen anyway, just like Women who resorted to back alley abortions and the like did so to keep from having kids they didn’t want.

Same deal for MPT – I don’t see it being stopped, quite frankly. The genie’s out of the bottle wrt reproductive tech and anything connected to it; the male version of the Pill may or may not become a reality, but what IS a reality, is the Maury Test. It’s widely available, you can even order up a home kit to administer to the kid in question and mail in the swabs for analysis in the mails. Could there be laws making it completely inadmissible in the courts? In light of the recent article out of the UK discussing this, and which appearned on The Spearhead of late, sure – but it won’t matter. My take is more and more Men, upon finding out what the deal is with kids who may not be theirs, will simply vote with their feet, come what may. They can’t arrest and lock all of us up.

Now, when it comes to custody and child support payments and the like, I think that’ll have to happen in terms of the political and legal realms. But here’s the thing: I don’t think it’ll happen necessarily by us, that is to say, Men. I think changes in those laws will happen when WOMEN start feeling the burn of CS payments and the like – then, the laws will change. Men will only have to stick around long enough to reap the benefits in changes in the laws.

Finally, IMBRA – I think one way of getting around that, is a small, but growing number of Man going elsewhere for love, or even just sex. Brazil, especially its famed Rio di Ginaro, is world reknown for its sex tourism, and of course many locations in Europe and Asia, are known for their “mail order brides”. With travel becoming cheaper and more accessible all the time, IMBRA is fast becoming obsolete; an average guy can afford to fly over to one of these countries, stay a few weeks, and do whatever it is he wants to do – be it live it up there for a spell, or find a Woman he wants to marry, etc. I personally don’t think we’re ever going to see a mass exodus of American Men going offshore for Women, but I DO think that enough of them will to really create a goodly bit of agita among American Women; somewhere between say, 5 and 10% of all available Men? It doesn’t need to be much bigger than that to really upset the apple cart. The SMP is a lot more fragile than people give it credit for, and it doesn’t take a lot to upset that delicate of male to femal ratios. Plus, we have to consider the very real possiblity that prostitution just could become legal here in the States – another nail in the coffin from the Feminsit Lobby standpoint. But even if that doesn’t happen, the handwriting’s on the wall – with cheaper airfares, the Internet and so on, there is precious little the FL can do to prevent Men going overseas.

So, that’s my take on all this. It seems to me that we need to keep our eyes on these prizes, instead of getting bogged down in things that don’t help any of us in the end.

O.

Gunn November 6, 2010 at 17:08

@Tim

1. Roe for Men

2. End to government-coerced child support.

3. Mandatory paternity testing.

4. End to IMBRA.

5. 50/50 default custody arrangement in the event of divorce.

How many times does it have to be said – there is no disagreement here that the 5 things above would give men back an equal set of rights that currently only women enjoy.

The problem though is the same as exists for affirmative action. It doesn’t matter that an objective, intelligent person looking from the outside can see that such frameworks work to ruin society, the people who apparently benefit (i.e. women in the case of misandric laws, and black people in the case of AA) overwhelmingly support such measures, so no politician is able to revoke them.

These are systems that will not be brought down from within the system. They require something outside of their context to push them out of equilibrium.

The way that the MRM can/does/should work has been the subject of many discussions on sites like this one. Some people argue for a movement with a clearly articulated set of aims, a clear leadership, and definitive criteria for winning or losing. These people are a bit like modern generals preparing for the threats of the next decade by looking back to how wars were fought half a century ago.

When your enemy has overwhelming power, you need to carefully plan your campaign. Did the US beat Russia in the cold war through engaging on the battlefront? No; instead, the US strategy was to make the Russians overextend themselves financially until they self destructed all by themselves. Do the islamic terrorists that operate today fight a war that is based on frontal attack? No; instead, they create fear which allows totalitarian-leaning politicians in their target countries to make changes to western society that are ultimately self-defeating.

Do you really think that a few thousand men, demanding that the law be changed as you have outlined above, can really effect this change? Particularly when you have intellectually stunted fools walking around claiming to be part of the MRM and with the same breath saying ‘but not all women are like that?’ In case its not clear, whilst logically this view might be correct, it won’t help to win the war. All it will do is create a confused message that makes it less likely that the rank-and-file men that labor under the current societal yoke will be motivated to side with the MRM cause.

The way that this particular war on feminism will be won is quite simple: feminism is causing a huge overextension of government. This has caused massive financial instability (which so far has been blamed on the bankers, who are a useful bunch of scapegoats for those in power). Regardless of this, politicians are unwilling to admit the real problem. Accelerating these problems, more and more men are becoming familiar with the marriage trap and choosing to avoid it. Those that do this (and also pick up game) find that they don’t need to earn as much money, so they don’t work so hard. This reduces the tax take further. Its a vicious cycle for government and feminism, but a potentially virtuous circle for men.

However, and this is a huge ‘but’, whilst western civilisation goes through this crisis, non-feminist countries and ideologies could well take the opportunity to become dominant. This is bad for society (in the sense of continuity).

What is often unsaid (maybe even unthought) by men though is, what exactly constitutes the life worth living? How is paying lip service to one ideology any worse than paying lip service to another? Particularly if in the status quo one’s rights are taken away by fiat, there is less and less to lose if society does go through a massive upheaval.

This particular comment thread is not about Obsidian presenting a whole new paradigm for the MRM to operate under; the truth is that except for isolated cases like himself, most men here don’t give a shit what someone else’s race is. For example, if you had to guess my race, what would you guess? If you can’t tell for sure what race I am, then that should tell you something about how important race is for me vs. the message about men’s rights.

Conversely, if you read Obsidian, you will be bludgeoned with references to his race every 2nd sentence; even worse, race is his primary bone of contention (or at least thats how it comes across) rather than the topic at hand. This is self-defeating (for him, and for the Spearhead if any attention or energy is wasted in such fruitless topics) and I think its a large part of the reason for the rejection of his article from various commenters here.

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Gunn November 6, 2010 at 17:13

WF Price So when are women going to come to the defense of men?

her name was hester and she got called everything but a child of God so she left.

*chic noir runs for the door*

It was Hestia, from what I recall she said that her real life commitments were keeping her busy, and thank god she didn’t engage in the emo-kiddy bullshit of writing about herself in the fucking third person.

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 18:35

@Obsidian, Gunn, Zed,

All excellent responses, and I thank you for your courtesy. It jibes with what Paul Elam has mentioned a few times, which is that the MRM cannot be an actual organization, which we all know anyway; so we should disabuse ourselves of that notion. In this sense, raising consciousness online is sufficient; indeed, as Obsidian says, there just won’t be enough money to support the goals of feminism, thus the beast will simply starve. I tip my hat to those men in Switzerland who actually did organize, but in the meantime, blogging on this side of the world will do.

I’m reminded of a Roissy post from awhile back, wherein he stated that what men ought to do is give women everything they want; give them so much of what they demand that they actually choke on their own demands. Along those same lines, a woman writer wrote recently in an article she published that feminists have become like anorexics, where upon looking at themselves in the mirror feel that they are too fat.

*Oh and Gunn you sound like a white guy.

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chic noir November 6, 2010 at 18:36

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Laura November 6, 2010 at 19:01

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zed November 6, 2010 at 19:50
1. Roe for Men
2. End to government-coerced child support.
3. Mandatory paternity testing.
4. End to IMBRA.
5. 50/50 default custody arrangement in the event of divorce.

How many times does it have to be said – there is no disagreement here that the 5 things above would give men back an equal set of rights that currently only women enjoy.

Gunn, I thought the rest of your comment was great. But, I can’t quite agree with the above. And that points to a very real issue which is a very large reason why the MRM has not made a lot of apparent progress when viewed through a certain ideological lens. For someone looking at it through a different ideological lens, things look quite different.

Stirring rhetoric about “keep your eyes on the prize” falls flat among those who do not see what is being suggested as any sort of prize. The first step in getting an uprising of men is to find something they agree is worth rising up about. None of the items on the list above do that for me. In fact, I would be generally opposed to most of them – not opposed enough to fight them, but opposed enough to say why I don’t think they are necessarily good ideas.

1. Roe for Men
2. End to government-coerced child support.

These are the same thing. Ending government funded child support enforcement would make all aspects of the fatherhood role voluntary. I’m not at all convinced that eliminating any responsibility of men for the children they produce is a good idea. Eliminating it for women seems to have done women a lot more harm than good, and I suspect the same would be true of men.

3. Mandatory paternity testing.
5. 50/50 default custody arrangement in the event of divorce.

Rob has written a lot about the pitfalls of inviting even more government intrusion into and control of your life. Mandatory paternity testing would be a totalitarian’s wet dream – in 30 years the total surveillance state would be handed to them on a silver platter. Forget “requiring the samples to be destroyed.” I have never understood why people suddenly begin to trust the people who work for government to behave better than they do when they are part of the general population these regulations are written to control.

Mandatory testing is sort of a coward’s way out anyway. The woman uses a hissy fit as a terrorist threat against any man who would dare to ask for such a test. Instead of having the stones to stand up to her, throwing all future children under the total surveillance bus is a way for a man to have his cake and eat it too.

Handing your children over to the state to act like the real parent, while husband and wife engage in sibling rivalry and demand the parent treat them “equally” is a ditch that I think it is best for men to stay out of.

4. End to IMBRA.

Strawman argument. If a man wants a foreign wife, he will be far better off to go to the country where she lives to find her. This is mostly to his benefit, as it gives him the chance to see the context she comes from, and to fish somewhere else than a pool with an extremely high percentage of green-card hunters.

There are some extremely deep philosophical and faith convictions which create real divisions among men. On almost any issue you are likely to find as many, or more, men who sincerely oppose what is being proposed.

To me, the biggest issue is to keep men from falling into the same trap that feminism laid for women – making them believe that a life which is safer, far richer in material goods, and has many more choices, for the average person is some sort of “prison” or “comfortable concentration camp.”

Life for men has always been tough. And, I am far from convinced that life today for the average man is not far less tough, and far more comfortable, than the lives of most men in the past. Today I have more choices not to go along with the social program than any man has ever had.

If a man cannot take that freedom and have a life he enjoys, I don’t think any number of newly dreamed up “rights” will let him do that, either.

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greyghost November 6, 2010 at 20:04

1. Roe for Men

2. End to government-coerced child support.

3. Mandatory paternity testing.

4. End to IMBRA.

5. 50/50 default custody arrangement in the event of divorce

1 roe for men- this shit ain’t happening don’t waste the effort for any thing but as a distraction.
2 End to government coerced child support- This shit isn’t ending either. Money talks. better to get a male birth control pill. Government child support will be an example for the the lazy and irresponsible.
3 mandatory paternaty testing- very doable, will take getting past the idea of a woman being held accountable.
4 end to IMBRA- not going to happen good distraction though. VAWA better target with an VAMA slant nothing makes a change for reason than when it effects a cunt.
5 50/50 default custody-fuck you asshole wheres my money. see # 2 But things change pull off #2 this is a no shitter. “OK kids try and answer why that would be a no shitter”

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greyghost November 6, 2010 at 20:13

Looks we posted at about the same time zed. I like your thoughts on the paternaty testing. That is something I worry about on the subject. I got out of the marine corps just before they came to get my DNA.

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 20:40

1. Roe for Men
2. End to government-coerced child support.

These are the same thing. Ending government funded child support enforcement would make all aspects of the fatherhood role voluntary. I’m not at all convinced that eliminating any responsibility of men for the children they produce is a good idea. Eliminating it for women seems to have done women a lot more harm than good, and I suspect the same would be true of men.

Both you and greyghost are correct; men would then turn into what women are now: selfish egomaniacs. However, illegitimacy would go down -way down. When women have to pay the price, they are more careful about who they fuck. When they can get full bennies, they don’t care. So while I agree with you that making fatherhood voluntary would turn men into irresponsible louts, I guarantee you illegitimacy would go down to pre ‘Great Society’ levels.

Mandatory paternity testing. I’m not so sure how much government intrusion that involves. Pay the fifty bucks to a private company and get the results in a few days or a week. Done and done. Plus you avoid nightmares like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html?pagewanted=all

Agreed on IMBRA. If a man is going to go foreign, he’d best go all the way and up and move himself to another country.

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rob November 6, 2010 at 21:29

Rob has written a lot about the pitfalls of inviting even more government intrusion into and control of your life.

“Free men” don’t beg for a piece of the pie from “the massah.”

Free men bake their own damn pies, and tell everyone else to “fuck off!”

If you think the government will solve your problems with shared parenting, you are begging for your piece.

If you think the government will solve your DV problems with DV Shelters for men, you are begging for your piece.

I prefer to associate with men who don’t realy upon government to solve their problems.

Government is only preferable because it is removed from the imperfections of “mankind” and transformed into some entity nobody really understands, called “government.”

It is because government is abstract from most human thinking that people believe they can foist their personal problems off onto some “generic” entity called government which we can imagine in our minds should be perfect.

History has shown is this exactly the wrong approach – over and over again!

And yet, because government is removed from the “personal” and thus also, “personal responsiblity”, it is easy for us to blame all of our problems upon this impersonal “entity” which does not represent us personally, but is in the abstract, and thus, “perfectable” in our minds.

No wife thinks her husband is perfect.

But she thinks the abstract of government, which she doesn’t understand by nature, is somehow “perfect” because it is abstract.

Government “permission” is not the answer.

In fact, it is THE PROBLEM!

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 21:51

I hear you Rob, but how does that pertain to men’s rights? For example, most fathers are awarded custody about 7% of the time. Women obtain custody 93% of the time. And of course there are a whole host of other men’s issues. Do you have any position on these at all? That’s cool if you don’t; I’m just curious.

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Gx1080 November 6, 2010 at 22:18

And what IS Men’s Rights to you Tim? Whine enough to Pimp Daddy State so it gets more control in our lives just to protect us from the evil wimmin? To demand “our share of the equality pie”? Because if so, don’t worry. We are all going to be equal in the Orwelian Brave New World Order.

We need to fight to get the Goverment from our lives, no matter what it takes. Out of the marriage and the divorce business, out of their relationships with Corporations, out of the Education business, out of everything.

Also Obs, fuck Affirmative Action. Is a stupid idea.

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rob November 6, 2010 at 22:21

I hear you Rob, but how does that pertain to men’s rights? For example, most fathers are awarded custody about 7% of the time. Women obtain custody 93% of the time. And of course there are a whole host of other men’s issues. Do you have any position on these at all? That’s cool if you don’t; I’m just curious.

OK Tim,

But I am NOT going to write out a big explanation – however, I am going to ask you to answer me.

Almost every shared parenting activist cannot manage to write about their goals without decelaring… “except in cases of Abuse!!!!”

Now, Tim, if you want to follow that route, and say that women will recieve less custody, and less money from a non-abusive father than an abusive one (which will be the case), should I believe there will be LESS or MORE men falsely accused of abuse, as a result of shared parenting?

Answer this one…

Then, we can get into the other 101 points of why I am so opposed to asshats begging the government “for their piece of the pie.”

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rob November 6, 2010 at 22:30

And Tim,

Second question,

Do you think those people who advocate for Shared Parenting, despite knowing the increased amount of fathers that will be falsely charged with abuse… should they be let off the hook and be allowed to blame this increase in false abuse case on the government – or are the Shared Parenting advocates also directly responsible for their actions, and the results?

Is only the government accountable, or also those “MRA’s” who will be sticking MORE innocent men into prison for their own personal benefit… and yet, blaming it all on the abstract, impersonal, “government?”

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rob November 6, 2010 at 22:36

So far, in my time in the MRM, I have not yet ONCE seen a Shared Parenting activist address these issues:

1 – They are increasing the motivation for women to NOT have an amicable divorce. In fact, they are trying to SOCIALLY SANCTION divorce, by coming to a “consensus.” (Rob Pukes up a bit of Marxist Bile).

2 – They are increasing the motivation for wives to make false accusations of abuse in order to gain money.

3 – They are increasing the motivation for wives to make false accusations of abuse in order to gain sole-custody.

The advocotion of this “issue which we can all agree upon” will do ENORMOUS damage to “men.”

Just not currently divorced fathers, I suppose – who seem quite willing to fuck over the fathers that will come in the years after them, in order that they may get their piece of pie today.

But, some of those fathers that come later will be their sons!

How morally pure.

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rob November 6, 2010 at 22:42

Most of the MRM is so fucked up in the head about “equality” that the only thing can really comprehend is “we aren’t getting an equal piece of that there death-trap pie!”

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rob November 6, 2010 at 22:55

Btw, 90% of current day shared-parenting activists will not even have the chance of seeing their “victory” until their children are teens, and couldn’t be bothered to spend more than 10 minutes a day with them – that’s the truth.

Sorry, guys… “useful idiot” comes to mind… I’ve been trying to be gentle for years now.

Your children are gong to hate you for it – the same way this generation blames the previous ones for No-Fault Divorce, which again, did 10,000 times more damage than good – because no-one was thinking!

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Tim November 6, 2010 at 23:21

I’ll answer you GX first and then I’ll answer my Canadian comrade Rob.

What I can say with certainty, GX, is that if the burden of raising a child were squarely on the shoulders of women, illegitimacy would go down -a lot. No more bastards. Right now, in the western world anyway, a woman gets knocked up and splits a few years later. She then enrolls in benefits and Dad has a few choices: He can visit sporadically and send in the child support payments. He can contest it in court and try to get more custody. Or he can skip both and just send in the checks and never see his kid(s) again. Every man is different. I don’t have the ‘right’ solution. I am curious what you think. That’s it, end of. Nothing more to it. Personally, I see illegitimacy and divorce as a scourge. The highest predictor of delinquency, truancy and overall maladjustment is fatherlessness. Right now, women are the majority of divorce filers. So this is a men’s rights issue. When millions of wives walk away from their marriages, it is a men’s rights issue. Remember: I do not claim to have the answer. I’m only curious what you think.

What are your thoughts?

Rob,

Shared parenting doesn’t go far enough, then. Perhaps, as F. Roger Devlin says, it is time to initiate full custody. I’ve also heard that shared parenting is a joke, because how can a kid live for two weeks in one residence and then two weeks in another residence in a one month period? It makes no sense. Then I would say forget shared parenting and go all the way: full custody.

Thoughts? If you don’t agree, I can understand that. Most men like their freedom. I’ve a handful of friends like this who simply send in the checks and pop by for a few visits per year to see their kids. They don’t seem to mind. I’ve always wondered however, why they put up with such a watered-down fatherhood.

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Scattered November 6, 2010 at 23:47

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rob November 6, 2010 at 23:48

Perhaps, as F. Roger Devlin says, it is time to initiate full custody.

Sorry, Tim, I guess I am railing at you directly, when really I should be railing at the Shared Parenting crowd – this is one particular subject that irks me. So, I shouldn’t be addressing you directly. But, here we are, lol.

You are certainly right about Devlin – he gets it! Especially when you see him at the end of his “Rotating Polyandry & It’s Enforcers” essay.

Of course, “It’s Enforcers” was written by Baskerville – yet another shared parenting advocate, and yet another academic “leader” that is “acceptable.”

Devlin notes, at the end, that indeed it appears that a system of sole father custody is most likely what is needed – and I applaud his courage in seeking truth. For, as he notes, as far as Baskerville goes, while he might agree with sole father custody in theory, he doesn’t believe it is acheivable, it is too fringe and therefore some form of shared parenting… yada yada… equality… yada yada… I have no brains… yada yada… because I have a Ph D … yada yada… and I have been brainwashed… yada yada…

Devlin asks a very poignant question after this (paraphrasing): “How ridiculous was it for gay activists 30 years ago to talk of same sex marriage, until today where it is talked of without a smirk on people’s faces? Surely, it is not a stretch for fathers to reinstate that which has always been in the face of what we have today!” (OK, I embellished the message – but it is the same idea).

Yet, this is the wimpiness what we hear today.

Devlin makes a point after that, which I also fully agree with, that most of these shared parenting activists seem to miss – the point of activism is to move the fringe. The fringe controls the middle of the road.

Those of you who have been following along with my posts over the past few days must know what I think about the “Absolute Truth.”

This is exactly the same thing, you guys.

Shared parenting is 1 + 1 = 2.3

We all know reality is 1 + 1 = 2

I don’t support living in a world where the math doesn’t work – and shared parenting doesn’t work.

Short term solutions = long term problems.

It is not responsible for parents of today to foist their problems onto kids of tomorrow… the way the parents of my generation dropped the ball and foisted no-fault-divorce the next generations… this is our no-fault-divorce. I just cannot imagine absolutely any benefit that shared parenting will add to humanity in the future.

What the hell are people thinking?

Involving government into the family even more????

Even Baskerville – a man whose fame is made upon being screwed by government doesn’t seem to get it.

Everyone sees the government as some abstract “perfectable entity” rather the faulty individuals in front of them. That’s why they run to them asking for their piece of the pie, along with the other serfs.

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Scattered November 6, 2010 at 23:59

Even ignoring the implications abortion should have in my opinion whatever comes out of a womens vagina should be her problem. If a women wants paternal investment then she can get it via contract without which she would problably be best off keeping her legs closed.

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rob November 7, 2010 at 00:23

I guess the thing what gets me so hopped up about things like Shared Parenting and DV Shelters… or rather “me too Mra-ism” is, this is exactly the reason I have been shrieking about Marxism for years!

And while people certainly understand when they see the word Marxism that looks like, and sounds like, that thing called Marxism – not enough of us seem to get it, what it is about, and it is crucial that we do.

Look, this isn’t a fight between men and women so much as it is a fight against our freedom. Women are simply the best way to start the machine to self-destruct.

But, they only start it!

We finish it!

It will be us who closes the barn door – the backlash consolodates the gains.

They said they wanted to remove children from their parents… obviously, it is easier to remove fathers than mothers… and if you follow the Marxist line further, it should be obvious that upon “the backlash” that the fathers will remove the mothers from their children.

When might this happen?

I don’t know… maybe they will wait until around 50% or more of children aren’t raised in homes with fathers. Whenever that may be.

Feminism is toast… this bus is turning our way. You can tell me if you think it is an accident or not. According to the agenda’s stated goals themselves, it is about time for them to discard feminism and allow a “backlash.”

So far, all I see is “Marxist approved Backlash.”

So far, this hasn’t worked out well for anyone in the world.

But every one of the people who fell for it thought that it would.

And so do we.

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Tim November 7, 2010 at 00:38

Scattered,

Agreed. You put that succinctly and to the point.

Rob,

Well, this has been educational. I don’t know what other men are thinking as we live these atomized lives now and don’t congregate in the kinds of tight communities previous generations lived in. I’ll have to agree with you on shared parenting; it’s good to hear your analysis rather than reading a critique of it from a textbook.

One last thing: there is a Canadian female journalist who also ‘gets it’ wrt Men’s rights. Barbara Kay. I just found her out recently. She writes a lot of articles concerned with the current state of affairs. In fact, she even goes so far as to say that these ‘Take Back the Night’ rallies are deep-down misandry, which I’ve always suspected, but men are so cowed no one will say anything. These rallies and the so-called ‘white-ribbon’ campaign are actually veiled man-hating sessions. Anyway, it’s getting late so I’ll just sign off and provide you with a link to this Barbara Kay. This woman’s great; I had to read this article several times I was so impressed:

http://www.articlesaboutmen.com/2010/09/who%E2%80%99s-oppressing-who-911/

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Nicole November 7, 2010 at 01:09

“Nothing in the world is more expensive than a “free” service – because the real cost is your integrity. No one is obligated to provide anyone a platform from which to say things that the people who pay the bills find offensive.”

It’s not about that. On WP, there has, up to now, been a kind of a trust between bloggers. Many write race realist and some downright racist things. The idea was to have honest dialogue.

Now, the trust has been broken.

I don’t thin WordPress finds these things offensive enough to take down a blogger, or else they would actively be looking for “violators”. They just have to cover their asses when people complain.

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rob November 7, 2010 at 04:45

One last thing: there is a Canadian female journalist who also ‘gets it’ wrt Men’s rights. Barbara Kay.

Yeah, I know of Barbara Kay – but, again I must point out, I read an article about shared-parenting from her only a month or so ago and in the first paragraph or so, it again jumped out at me: “except in cases of abuse.”

It is like “our side” can’t eagerly enough make the next generation into wards of the state. And that is exactly what children will become if parents cede to the government this authority we are demanding – children will become wards of the state, with parents as babysitters and support-slaves.

I would not be half suprised that a decade after shared-parenting gets installed, the government will be introducing some sort of “review system” to make parenting standards that everyone has to abide by – or lose their children.

These things always start out the same – rather minor, and a decade or two later, they begin to become oppressive, when it is mandatory … it always works the same way.

Can anyone tell me one time the government has stuck their nose into marriage or family where it was more beneficial than harmful?

I can’t.

But, perhaps “this next time” will yield different results. That’s what everyone seems to believe, anyway.

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Avenger November 7, 2010 at 04:56

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zed November 7, 2010 at 06:40

Tim: Well, this has been educational. I don’t know what other men are thinking as we live these atomized lives now and don’t congregate in the kinds of tight communities previous generations lived in.

And, I think that is the biggest problem right there, and why Ragnar is right on the money when he suggests that men form brotherhoods – even though that is very difficult in the prevailing conditions. That is one reason why the Internet is so important to men – it allows us to break down some of that distance between men that modern life produces.

We live in boxes, we go to work in boxes on wheels, we work in boxes literally called “cubes”, we get our entertainment from a box in the living room, and even our food comes out of boxes. We are the most boxed in people who have ever lived. We are totally isolated from each other, and most of our interaction is up-down – we accept what gets handed to us by the institutions organized to hand it to us, and our only choices are to like it or lump it.

There will never be any agreement on strategy or tactics until there is some agreement on philosophy. Basic core beliefs are the foundation from which all action arises.

Few people can summarize their philosophy in a sentence or two, but mine is very similar to Harry Truman’s and is pretty well illustrated by a couple of his famous quotes – “The buck stops here” and “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”

To me, the biggest problem with western culture as a whole is indolence, which arises from luxury. People seem to want (men every bit as much as women) exactly what they want, delivered to them without them have to expend much, if any effort. Instead of appreciating the value of what they are getting, and overlooking any “imperfections”, they seem to have the attitude that they are entitled to whatever they want and even if it is 95% of what they really wanted the only thing they focus on is the 5% that isn’t “perfect.”

As a culture, we have totally lost the ability to have an “attitude of gratitude.”

To me, all real change and all real power start inside my own head. In dealing with any situation the first place I look for a solution is inside, not “out there.”

TV is a perfect example of a generalized addiction to consumption combined with helplessness. I am constantly hearing men bitch about how men are portrayed on TV – the stupid commercials, the “man as violent dufus” meme which dominates almost all shows these days. But, they keep right on watching it.

To me, the answer is as simple as “Don’t like what is on? Then don’t watch it.” If I say this to most men, immediately I get “BUT, there is still some ‘good stuff’ on.” But, in order to get to the “good stuff” in the shit sandwich they end up having to swallow a lot of shit.

There is a lot of the MRM which does amount to nothing more than “me-too-ism.” We really need to come up with a new term to apply to ourselves because a lot of men are simply following the ruts of thinking worn by first the “Civil Rights” movement, then by “Women’s Rights”, “Gay Rights”, and every other splinter group seeking “rights”, which to me are not rights at all but “entitlements.”

Personally, I find the whole concept of “men’s rights” versus “women’s rights” to be a horribly bad way to frame the issues. In the US, the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights are in no way sex specific. Free speech, the right to assemble, the right to a trial by a jury of one’s peers, the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty – all these apply to all people, regardless of what genitals they have.

I think that what we are really dealing with is attitudes and beliefs. Without a completely totalitarian government watching and controlling our every move, the vast majority of control of behavior is personal and social. As social values have fallen apart, and as people have felt more and more helpless, they cry for totalitarianism.

In order to make a very large point I have often used the statement that as long as I treat women like they probably have the plague, I have most of the rights I need. For men, a whole lot of the issues boil down to the power which has been given women to call down armies of other men – White Knights and manginas – to clobber any man who displeases them.

As rob and scattered have pointed out above, a lot of what men seem to be calling for today is the “equal right” to get government to clobber women who displease them. I agree with rob that this is a fundamentally wrong approach. Instead of demanding that the government (meaning faceless bureaucrats and lots of women with degrees in victimhood and “Wimminz’s Studdees”) intrude even more into our lives and assume more and more control of us and more and more ability to tell us what to do, I think that men would be better served to be working to repeal a lot of the special rights that have been given to women – VAWA, rape shield laws, and yes, Child Support Enforcement.

To use no-fault divorce as an example: the person who leaves the marriage would have to forfeit all marital assets – including the children, the house, the bank accounts, and the retirement funds. They walk out with the clothes on their back and nothing more. No continuing alimony or child support. Make divorce cost the leaver. And force people to consider whether the 95% of the marriage which is still pretty good isn’t worth sticking around for. If a woman doesn’t want her husband to leave and take his income with him, then maybe she will have to appreciate him – “imperfections” and all.

I believe that we really are in the middle of a “gender war.” And, just like all wars it is being declared, waged, and managed by a very small percentage of people at the top of the power pyramid, while the rest of us poor schlubs just try to get on with our lives in a war zone. Like all wars, it will eventually bankrupt and devastate those who are waging it – leaving people to clean up the wreckage and try to get on with what is left of their lives.

If we apply game theory to our current situation, we have beginning conditions and rules. We can attempt to change those conditions and rules, or we can learn them and use them to win the game if we can. That is exactly what Game is. As HL says, it is “the red pill.” It cuts through all the lies men have been fed, and teaches them the real rules and how they can “win” if they apply them well.

Who gives a flying fuck if the “white race” dies out? From a purely Darwinian perspective they deserve to because they seem to have an uncontrollable death wish. Instead of regarding marriage and reproducing as some sort of “social duty”, I regard them much like smoking crack cocaine or owning yachts – high risk and expensive pastimes. The conditions and rules of the game make them high risk and expensive, and it is unlikely that men will be able to petition for enough of a rule change to make them less of either.

Men have a whole lot of power, and even rights, that they seem unwilling to exercise. Don’t like what is on TV? Either turn it off or get rid of it completely. Think marriage is too risky to undertake these days? Don’t get married. Don’t want your kids used against you by family courts and used as an excuse to pauperize you? Don’t have kids. Don’t want kids? Either get a vasectomy (virtually 100% effective) or practice abstinence.

“But, but, but…” – I hear the objections now – “if I do those things, they I will have to give up A, B, and C that I want.” Yes, you will. But, how badly do you want to avoid X, Y, and Z?

Men really are becoming just like women. They want fried ice. They want free pussy.

I don’t think such things exist, and I profess that belief on a regular basis.

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rob November 7, 2010 at 07:15

I think there are different ways to go about making life better than by asking the government to make it so. The problem with “backlashing” against Marxism is that it is like being caught in a spider’s web or in quicksand – the more you blindly thrash about, the more entrapped you become. In order to “get out,” we have to start moving slowly and deliberately.

Nobody has really defeated Marxism’s traps yet, but that does not mean it is not possible. And, in many ways, if we could manage to do those deliberate moves, we might be able to actually benefit ourselves and the next generations, rather than screwing them over.

Since I’ve been railing on against shared-parenting as my example, I’ll carry on with it, since it is probably not proper to rail against something without offering an alternate solution to “the problem.” (I don’t deny “the problem” – I just heavily question “the solutions”).

We have been doing a fairly good job in the manosphere lately of identifying how human psychology and sexuality works. We are learning it without the deference to some “Ph. D.,” thank goodness. The stuff is there without them. Schopenhauer, Weininger, Neitsczhe, Kant, Aristotle… Belfort Bax, the Lamentations of Matheolus… yeah, you know what? As far as “men” go, all the modern day Ph D’s can stick it where the sun don’t shine, there are other men I can refer to from the past, who are speaking the Truth better than anything academia is pumping out.

We don’t have to empower academics to “figure it out.” It is already there, and we are figuring it out without them.

Yay Men!

Scoreboard:
Academia: 1,285
Men: 1

We’re staging a comeback!

In the same way, I think it is possible for us to circumvent the system completely, and “leave liferafts” for the men who come after us.

In regard to Shared Parenting, I would rather see that we leave the next generation of true form of Patriarchy. I don’t mean that we have to change all of society to our way of thinking, but in the future we could make sure that a “path of Patriarchy” remains for the men of tomorrow – should they “figure it out” and choose that path amidst all of the other falseness that is arising in our society… we need to leave them a way to “circumvent the system” so they can live free.

For example: TFH often points out that high quality surrogacy can be had in India for around $20,000. In the USA, I believe it runs around $80,000.

In this way, men are still offered a path to “assumed father custody” which is a cornerstone of the whole shebang.

Don’t forget, same-sex marriage is going to blow surrogacy wide open into society, and there are ways we can “manipulate the system” for our own benefit, and create a “Patriarchal Liferaft” for men, by making sure men have an alternative to the totalitarianism of government. Thereby circumventing submission to their power as much as possible.

If you have guaranteed-father-custody of the children you choose to have, you have already cut the state off at the knees and disempowered the bastards.

Let the dumb ones keep “buying children” from women the way men have now:
- Get into a sexual relationship with women, and “trust” she won’t be a shrew and screw you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars of chillimony, and also, trust you won’t wind up in jail. In other words, give her and the government 100% control over your reproductive freedom. Not to mention dozens of other areas you can be screwed by woman, or her real husband: the good gov’t.

We should be showing that the smart ones ought to gain children through surrogacy – despite the initial costs, which are actually significantly less in almost everyway in the long run. Then you will not be under constant threat all of your life, but can live free – well, freer than the other saps, anyway.

When the shared-parenting people are realizing that they have lost their freedom to “move about the country,” because Dad lost his job and needs to move to LA to find work, but Mom lives in Chicago and they haven’t been together for 5 years now… (“Your request to rescind your ‘equal status’ in order that you may relocate for work is denied,” bellows the judge while banging his gavel. “You may not give up your ‘shared’ responsibility and move. You know both you and your ex-wife must stay living in the same 30 sq. mile radius for twenty years).

Well, while the people who got children “that way” are facepalming themselves and going, “what the hell have I gotten myself into?” His competitor who has sole father custody through surrogacy will be on a plane with his child, taking that job the shared-parenting guy is prohibited from seeking.

Which would you rather have?

If men must have children, then it would be better for us to just let the “others” keep arguing about marriage and shared-parenting, while we build a life-raft and row away from the lot of them while they aren’t watching. (“HEY! Where are all the slaves?” Cries out Phyllis Schlafly.)

There are ways to oppose all of this stuff without empowering the government.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 4
arthur November 7, 2010 at 07:26

For those that will read Zed’s post and STILL think that there is a way to organize and negotiate/fight for our rights, Obsidian, I will translate it:

STARVE THE BEAST.

This ain’t a race issue, Obsidian. It’s a stupidity issue. Your post exhorting us to “step up our game” to attract one of these wildebeasts known as american women is the male equivalent of “not all women are like that”.

Women and big daddy guvmint are driven by one thing:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

They don’t give 2 squirts of piss from an insects dick about fairness, especially when it comes to men. Men have all the freedom and power they need right now. It’s called “don’t play” . And save the “yeah, but” while you are at it.

It’s fascinating that people have been watching this movie for years or even decades and still haven’t figured out the plot.

Now adjourn your asses!!!!

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Gunn November 7, 2010 at 08:16

@Zed

Very fair points. My comment was aimed at making a different point, and in doing so I did gloss over those 5 objectives.

Perhaps I should clarify as follows:

The summary of my overall view is that our society has moved away from a model of parenting that worked. Additionally, feminism has acted to give power to women whilst maintaining or increasing obligations on men. These activities happened in semi-lockstep, i.e. feminism probably viewed the old model of parenting as being overly limiting on women.

By parenting here I mean all aspects, from choice of mate before conception to providing support and guidance for children as they grow up.

I would like to see the traditional roles of woman as gatekeeper and man as resource provider re-established on an equitable basis. In other words, women must be accountable and responsible for their choices in who they choose to commit to, whilst men must be accountable and responsible for their choices in the context of the marriage contract.

As Tim mentions / implies, the reason to put forward Roe for men / end of government oversight of child payments is to re-establish womens’ accountability for the financial provision of their children. Today they can spawn whatever bastards they desire knowing that someone will pick up the bill. That needs to stop, and it needs to stop through making women responsible for whom they choose to have children with. Wrong choice means no money, and a very hard life for her. If children in this situation are in poverty, then it should be judged as child abuse by the woman, with appropriate consequences.

Point 3 is pretty much moot if child support obligations exist only in marriage. What I would say here though is that if its not mandatory, it should be something that the man can request anonymously to a doctor. Any children that are his in marriage are the responsibility of the man, but if the wife cheats he should not have to pay. This is the balance between freedom of association for women vs. freedom not to be defrauded for men.

Point 4 on IMBR: quite simply, this is an indefensible piece of legislation and should be scrapped purely on the grounds that it is discriminatory to men.

Point 5 on joint custody: we need to redefine the concept of custody. Society has been brainwashed into thinking that its one immutable thing that needs to be in place until a child has become an adult. It doesn’t account for the way that children grow into adults.

When a child is young, it needs its mother. At least up to the age of 7, children in my view are better off with their mothers. After this point, for boys in particular, its essential that they have good male role models. As such, default custody for a boy of 7+ should be with the father. For girls, fathers need to be more and more present after the age of 7, however there is still a strong need for the mother (e.g. shared experiences as the girl hits puberty). Teenage girls are probably the ones who most need joint 50/50 custody.

In an ideal world, if men were not obligated to pay for divorce no matter who initiated it, the number of children for whom custody arrangements would need to be considered would fall as there were fewer divorces.

The above would be my thoughts on creating a basic principle on the 5 points that Tim raised.

I’m sure that this framework could be refined, and I would hope that the basics are pretty much what most men would at least be able to have a discussion on.

There are of course various other things that I believe need to be changed in today’s society, but thats where things start moving away from the male/female dynamic to one that is more about big government vs. small government.

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Gx1080 November 7, 2010 at 08:48

OK, here’s what I think.

Mandatory paternity testing, although really useful, is a band-aid to the real issue: Goverment forced alimony/child support at gunpoint.

If, after a divorce, the guy could just say “Ok, the children are yours. But you aren’t getting money from me”, without the Goverment interfering, divorces would be rare. Yeah, yeah, bastard spawn would be dying on the street and …what? That doesn’t happen because people can work? Huh, weird.

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Firepower November 7, 2010 at 09:25

Tim November 6, 2010 at 13:30

@Firepoodle,

I’m not the one who follows female bloggers around like a lost puppy trying to get a pat on the tummy, LOL. And they unanimously reject you. I’ll give you a hint: the haiku -it ain’t workin’ babe. Now go play in your sandbox, son. Let the men talk.

Gosh-a-r00ties: you’ll have to quit posting. btw, talking to your screen with your pants around your ankles doesn’t count.

Fire poodle?
I guess now that puerile misuse of a name means I must stop communicating with you because you’re a child minor – or a slipshod ManHood 101 infiltrator oh-so subtly spouting all kinds of ninja”master’s” crazy to avoid the banhammer.

Still, I am rather flattered you keep such close tabs on which female bloggers like my brand of sausage.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 15
rob November 7, 2010 at 09:57

You know why men arguing with eachother is so much more preferable than women arguing with men?

The insults and subsequent terminology are outstanding!

I mean, what would you rather read?:

Exhibit A:
- Not all women are like that!
- You must be gay!
- You’re insecure about your small penis!

Exhibit B:
- They don’t give 2 squirts of piss from an insects dick about fairness, especially when it comes to men.
- I’m not the one who follows female bloggers around like a lost puppy trying to get a pat on the tummy, LOL.
- …or a slipshod ManHood 101 infiltrator oh-so subtly spouting all kinds of ninja”master’s” crazy to avoid the banhammer.

I mean small wonder that men have created everything – look at even how much more creative we are at arguing.

Men kick ass.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 4
J. Durden November 7, 2010 at 10:28

Rob,

Obviously. Have you ever heard women try to swear? They’re always doing it wrong. They have no idea that it’s an art form. Nobody cares if you can throw out an f-bomb every other word, darlin’. That doesn’t make you sound tough.

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CashingOut November 7, 2010 at 10:40

@Tim

@Zed,

As CashingOut so eloquently put it, the best hope any of us has is spitting in any hand which offers us a handout, and refusing to get down into that ditch they are digging for us.

In practical terms, what does this mean? Don’t do anything? Don’t vote? Don’t organize? Nihilism? What do you want to do?

I know you were asking Zed, but as Zed was commenting on something I had said, and someone else was asking me what my opinion on Men’s Rights is, I may as well kill 2 birds with one stone.

To me, when Zed said that, no further explanation was necessary. Spit in the hand that offers a handout and refuse to get in the ditch that they are digging for us means just that: do not take any government program that gives you free money just for doing nothing. Do your damned best not to contribute to them as well. If this means expating, moving overseas, moving your funds overseas so they won’t be taxed by the government, whatever, then so be it. Don’t get married here in the US, because you stand a better than 50% chance of getting divorced, and getting caught up battling a divorce, custody, and wealth distribution beast that few men can say they’ve out and out beaten. Don’t do things that are against your short, medium, or long term interests solely because you’re a man, it’s “the right thing to do” because it’s patriotic, because that’s how your father did it, because it’s what nice people do. That is how they got us in this meat grinder in the first place, and it’s how the matriarchy is constantly shaming, cohersing, and tricking men into doing their dirty work for them, paying taxes for useless programs, getting fem-first legislation passed, fighting wars and dying to maintain their standard of comfort, pissing money away to fight diseases that we may never get and flat out won’t affect most of us.

Furthermore, when it comes to fighting this thing, we shouldn’t be looking to the US Government, nor other men en masse to help us, most certainly using the cry of “we are men, we are being treated unfairly, we should be respected because of…” Women have been doing this for centuries, and they have it down to an art. Fuck it’s their instinct to do it, and it’s in lesser men’s instinct to listen to them and act on it. We shouldn’t expect to get the same results women do by using the same tactics that they do. We shouldn’t expect to “sue” the government into submission, or use legalese in order to trip the government up into making a just ruling. Once in a blue moon someone slingshots Goliath this way, but most of the time, when a judge gets hemmed in or tripped up by someone who knows the law better than them, they make up their own law (this is called “setting precedent”), and leave it at that. Even when someone does win, it’s a case where it could be argued that the Government got the victor more than theygot the government. A link was posted to a YouTube video a couple articles back by Peter Andrew-Nolan, and the guy in the video explains this perfectly: “what, you fought the government and won, but it took you 3 million dollars and 30 years of your life? Man it sounds like they got you. They just got you the other way, but they still got you.” I know any number of people in Custody battles, guardianship battles, who are going through the same exact shit: they stand no chance of winning, and those people who do win blow so much time and energy on it that they lose more winning than people who outright lose in other endeavors ever do.

So, simply put, the best strategy, as I see it, is to disengage yourself from the system. This country is finished: this is not my wish, nor my voicing of Anti American sentiment, it is a statement of fact. All of our jobs are going overseas, the national dialog is mostly about how to take care of the lazy who won’t take care of themselves, and how to further kowtow to women. The educational system has been going to hell for decades. Feminism is now an entrenched part of the culture. Entitlement is such an ingraned belief in the social consciousness now that when our sorry President got into office, his first order of business, before ensuring jobs creation, before making sure that businesses could continue to produce jobs over here, was to push a monstrous health care bill covering everything from pregnancy to obesity through congress, and not pay attention to the small fact that w aren’t even going to be able to pay taxes on this thing IF THERE ARE NO FUCKING JOBS TO TAX. We are not going to be able to compete with hungry aggressive countries like China and India, who aren’t entrenched in this shit, and who have better things to do other than to cater to women and the chronically lazy, who actually educate their children, who don’t waste time sitting around trying to coddle a million special groups who want the government to not only give them the right to exist, but to bend over backwards for them.

In short, I understood it as “look out for your interests as a man first and foremost. Don’t join or enable any system that doesn’t look out for your interest as a man, or shits on other men.” The above isn’t a completely exhaustive explanation of how to fight the beast, but it’s what I understood it to be.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 4
Ray Manta November 7, 2010 at 10:46

Wapiti wrote:
Whatever one thinks of the evidence that supports or discredits the HBDers’ assertions about genetic differences between the races, one thing is more or less indisputable…that the genetic gap between men and women is much wider than that between men of different races.

The current evidence shows that the genetic differences between the sexes swamp all other human differences and rival the differences between humans and chimpanzees of the same gender. When we speak of the “human genome”, it’s more accurate to say that there are two human genomes, male and female.

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zed November 7, 2010 at 10:51

I’m sure that this framework could be refined, and I would hope that the basics are pretty much what most men would at least be able to have a discussion on.

There are of course various other things that I believe need to be changed in today’s society, but thats where things start moving away from the male/female dynamic to one that is more about big government vs. small government.

And, having a discussion is exactly the impression I have of what is happening here. Please correct me if I am wrong.

One of the central points of discussion is where to put the focus – on the male/female dynamic, or on small versus big government. I think that rob and I have both communicated very clearly that we consider the size of government to be a much more significant issue than the male/female dynamic – because without government to favor one side or the other, the sexes have no choice but to work things out between themselves. It is only when those do-gooders who think that the human experience is perfectable (if only everyone is forced to live under their ideology) get involved and get the power to shove that ideology down everyone else’s throats, that things start to get really out of balance. Men and women managed to mate, produce children, and raise enough of them to adulthood to create a huge population before government ever got involved. I suspect they would find ways to do so if the government were to get un-involved.

I think we do actually agree that things are out of balance right now. Any disagreement comes from the details of any proposed solutions to address the problem. As the old saying goes, the devil is in the details.

As a very general principle, I suggest that men get out of the knee-jerk reactive mode that they seem to be in, and step back and consider any proposed solutions carefully in order to avoid some of the pitfalls which ill-considered recent solutions have caused.

Rob has a real thing about “shared parenting”, so I will leave its analysis up to him and look at some of the pitfalls of the other things being suggested.

on Mandatory Paternity Testing:

In general this strikes me like requiring everyone in the population to take a very strong antibiotic which has all kinds of nasty side-effects because a small percentage of the population has an infection. The two estimates of prevalence of paternity fraud I have heard most often are 30% and 10%. The 30% figure comes from blood bank tests and was done by a group of men who had significant reason to doubt the mother’s fidelity and claim that the child was his. The 10% figure comes from multiple sources and I think it is probably a sound estimate to use as a baseline.

Multiple episodes of “Maury” with 15 successive iterations of “You are NOT the father” notwithstanding, even in those cases where men had real reason to doubt that the mothers’ claims of paternity were correct, they still turned out to be true in the majority of the cases. The idea that women are cuckolding their husbands left and right just is not supported by evidence.

Rather than being able to push their problems off on the entire population by requiring universal mandatory paternity testing (leaving aside the issue of total surveillance for the moment) I would totally support Paternity Testing on demand of the putative father, combined with the option to immediately and permanently terminate all parental obligations if the test determines that the man is not the genetic father. At that point, opting to continue in the father role would gain the man certain immutable legal rights to be a real and complete parent to the child.

Just as cold, and just as hard, but focused on where the problem really lies – giving an antibiotic to the people who actually do have the infection, instead of everyone indiscriminately.

On the child support issue:

This is one of the best examples of “unintended consequences” we could give. The original CS laws were aimed at the “cads” – the men who “pumped and dumped” naive young women. And, the most ardent supporters – both then and now – were the “dads” of these young women, taking the narrow and short-sighted view that they were protecting their “precious princesses” from the “cads.”

Not once in a million minds did the thought ever occur to these dads that the very same law they supported might be turned around and used against them. They were under the naive impression that bad things only happened to bad people, and that the men who had these bad things happen to them “deserved it”, UNTIL it happened to them – and then they could not understand why all these other men seemed to believe that they “deserved it.”

Axiom of big government #1 – any law you forge to use against someone else can be creatively twisted to use against you.

If we were to eliminate welfare and paternity fraud, the whole child support issue would take care of itself – breed with a cad who has no money, raise your child on your own. As long as we take away the ability of women to –
1) commit paternity fraud and stick a man with the legal obligation to support another man’s child, and
2) stick the population in general with the bill for supporting the cad’s child through welfare,
the responsible men who do not sire bastards and the responsible women who do not cuckold their husbands and boyfriends are not punished along with the guilty.

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zed November 7, 2010 at 11:03

@CashingOut

Eloquently and BRILLIANTLY said.

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Gunn November 7, 2010 at 11:15

Zed

I don’t see much practical difference between my views on the male/female issues and yours. I think its because we’re both coming at it from the perspective of the underlying problem needs to be fixed rather than merely addressing symptoms.

Which brings me to your other point – I completely agree that the big government / small government issue is primary. This is exactly where the out-of-context problem for the current feminised western states is coming from (shameless borrowing from Iain Banks’ phrase there, but I think its apt). We have a bunch of people in power who seem to think that their ability to bribe sections of the populace through welfare and income redistribution can be kept up perpetually. They seem unwilling to accept the reality that our economies cannot continue to go down this socialist / communist path without imploding. Feminism in this sense is not so much the proximate cause of the breakdown, but instead is an accelerant in the fuel mixture.

However, there is a big problem with just waiting for the inevitable – it won’t be our way of life that continues after the singularity. It will be a different culture, one that is still able to channel male energy and female reproduction to a common civilisational objective.

And to be brutally honest, I don’t see any way of avoiding this doom.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 11
zed November 7, 2010 at 11:31

I don’t see much practical difference between my views on the male/female issues and yours.

Nor do I, Gunn. I see us more like 2 hockey players on the same team passing the puck back and forth as we move it down the ice toward a goal we both pretty much agree upon. We take each other’s posts and points to use as a springboard to launch into further refinement of the exposition of our views.

I don’t actually even see much disagreement with Tim, except for the fact that I favor personal solutions over political ones. As rob recently put it, MGTOW means taking the political out of the personal.

I am very old fashioned and conservative in some respects. When Perry, Amundsen and Scott attempted to reach the north and south poles, it was just men against the environment. The entire concept of “government” doing anything to either help or impede them (other than perhaps fund their expedition equipment) was so far out of the picture it never occurred to anyone to even mention it.

The way I view things today is that the government creates an environment which is fundamentally hostile toward me and that the only thing which I have to rely on to survive, and maybe even thrive, in that environment is my masculine self-reliance and creativity.

I have a whole lot more faith in them than I have in nameless faceless bureaucrats – like those who staff the TSA and HR departments around the world.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
greyghost November 7, 2010 at 11:34

I like this discussuion . The Idea of pateraty testing should be something that a man can do at his leisure with out government interference. rob is dead on with the idea that making it right by getting the government to beat down another group is bullshit. I love freedom over all better to be hungury and free than fed in a cage.
I favor the activism of freedom. My asumptions and premises are based on misandry and “never hurt the girl” always being the norm. Amale birth control pill is a much better tool than argueing about child support. With a male pill that arguement is gone doesn’t happen at all. fromthere women will go to the government with chnges to entice men to stop using birth control or ban it out right. If the stupid asses here with that wait till the colapse and then I’ll be a man again crowd gets involved that can be stopped. Use activism to have neutral application of the law. Most of the gender based laws are clear violations of the constitution. All MRA arguements rather than make new rules apply all laws to everyone only then can work be done on unjust laws. At one time in the name of equality there was no alimony. They then changed it to what it is now. There used to be a shall arrest on DV calls, women started going to jail and the femminist got in there with the new guidelines to get only the man arrested. Adjust title 9 and male enrolement in college will go up. Activism needs to be directed at laws that are clear with firm definitions. As it stands now crimes are based on the opinion of the victim. Look at the definition of rape an abuse it is getting looser and looser to maintain victim status for women. MGTOW will fix that with out any changes to anything. That is more realistic for the MRM is my view of things.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Tim November 7, 2010 at 11:59

I like this discussion.

No kidding. This has been very helpful. I must agree that any attempt to appeal to the government for redress can indeed be used against men as you say, Zed. How easy it is to forget that. In this case, disengagement is the only solution; it sounds like there is general agreement in principle. I already am a MGHOW. What got me interested in these online websites was a pattern I noticed -I guess we all have noticed- of the growing subservience of men. I’ve probably a half dozen male friends and acquaintances whose wives left them for no apparent reason other than boredom. Some were accused of child abuse and had to pay north of 50k to defend themselves. One friend of mine who is a fireman in Vancouver had his wife leave with his son and move to Toronto. Well, that is quite a geographical separation, and it means he will see his son once a year, if that. It’s obscene.

So while my instinct is to seek redress through governmental intervention, this conversation has illuminated areas I had not previously investigated. Band-aids are useless on something as gangrenous as today’s marriage and divorce laws. Only full withdrawal and/or amputation will do. Or, as Rob, says, ‘Absolute Truth’. I also would rather live free and hungry than fed and caged. True words there.

Shared parenting: band-aid. useless.

MPT: Well, I suppose the word mandatory could be dropped.

No fault divorce: Whoever leaves the marriage would forfeit all rights to property and assets and future earnings/pensions.

But even if the above were implemented, it seems the best way is to fully withdraw/expat and let the whole house of cards come crashing down.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6
Gunn November 7, 2010 at 12:44

Just as a bit of background, the reason for promoting mandatory paternity testing rather than merely allowing a man to be able to request it where the paternity has been assumed / stated to be his is grounded in the beta/mangina nature of most men today.

This discussion happened at Roissy’s a while back. The conclusion was basically that alphas have no need for any legislation here anyway (they’ll be able to demand the test if they want it from the girl). For betas though, indoctrinated by society to believe that women are sugar and spice, and who are taught never to question their woman, even providing an option to test paternity would run afoul of their girlfriends’ shaming tactics (plus other women in their social circles). Ironically of course, its the betas who are most likely to be cheated by their girlfriends in this way.

If the goal of paternity test is to reduce opportunistic slutty behaviour on the part of women, then only a mandatory paternity test would achieve this. Otherwise, most women who were cheating would not be called out on their cheating.

The short- to mid-term benefit of MPT would be that women would be given a massive disincentive to cheat, and this would change their behaviour through effective economic sanctions for bad choices.

As is noted here, the long term consequences might well be unintended, especially if the controls over genetic information were lax.

Whichever side of the fence you’re on with this one, its interesting to note how the discussion changes once you factor psychology / game theory [normal definition of game theory here, not sexual game] into the mix.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3
Joe November 7, 2010 at 12:58

or a slipshod ManHood 101 infiltrator oh-so subtly spouting all kinds of ninja”master’s” crazy to avoid the banhammer.

Eh?

The Manhood 101 guys weren’t infiltrators, they were genuine masculinists.

The treatment of the Manhood 101 guys by the MRA community as a whole – marginalizing them – was shameful.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
greyghost November 7, 2010 at 13:27

Paternaty test should not at all involve women. The point of a paternaty test is for a man to check out kids that are claimed to be his. The femminist will make a huge deal about the virtrue of some cunt. CS is government determined and collected by the government. There is even an incintive for state government to get federal matching funds, so this is between a man and the government. Women must be pushed out of the loop. Misandry is the rule so any thing that puts the slightest responsibility on women is out and should be. The government lets women lie in court so the government already has put women out of the loop. The only concern government has is nailing some male. remember the phone book daddies of Kalifornia. Returned child support is paid by the government not some poor single mom. Never tlk women and children when talking about paternity. It is all legal shit between a man and the government.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
zed November 7, 2010 at 15:51

@Gunn

Thanks for the background. It does provide some context.

Rather than continue to thrash that particular horse around, let me provide a bit of context of my own. Having been involved in the generalized “Men’s Movement” for 40 years now – since the autumn of 1970 – I have observed certain predictable patterns in the way that men sabotage themselves. When I see one of these patterns emerging again, I tend to enter the discussion and attempt to keep it from following a pattern which I have never seen be anything but self-defeating.

One of the worst is when some guy jumps in and says something like “I know! Let’s climb Mt. Everest!!!” In other words, they propose something so grandiose, so at odds with the direction and momentum of the cultural stream, that it really comes off like bong dreams. Simply because it is so impossible, it can’t do anything but fail. Then, someone else comes along and equally grandiosely announces that “the MM has failed.”

My usual response is something along the lines of “Why don’t you get your lazy ass off the couch, set down the remote, and walk to the door first?” In other words – set some achievable goals, then actually work to achieve them.

There is a lot of distance between having PTs totally banned – as they are in France and is as proposed in the UK – and having them mandatory. Between “all” and “none” there is a huge middle ground of “some.” Before men will ever reach the peak of Everest – making PTs mandatory – they will first need to get to the foothills of getting them even allowed in some or most circumstances.

The direction of the past 40 years of the alphas and high betas has in all cases been against the interests of the lower betas. Setting a goal as lofty as MPT requires a supersonic reversal of direction.

In addition, there is almost a stench of Politically Correct aversion to “profiling” wafting over the whole thing. The vast majority of women do not cuckold their husbands, no matter how beta they are, at the present time. Anything which is similar to TSA screeners strip searching an 80 y/o grandmother while “Abdul” or “Mohamed” stand in line with fuses hanging out of every pocket and going “tick, tick, tick” because we don’t want to “profile” will encounter huge resistance even from those who have nothing to hide.

Now, perhaps to the surprise of a lot of people, I’m going to go all NAWALT on everyone and say that there are a whole lot of problems with punishing everyone, including the innocent, in order to make sure we get all the guilty. A woman who has done nothing to make her husband suspect that she is cheating and is forced to “prove” that, has every bit as much right to be very pissed off about it as a man who is put in the position to have to prove that he isn’t a “rayyyypist.”

Like it or not, White Knights and manginas are environmental hazards that all of us average guys have to deal with. Impugning the honor of “all womanhood” will get them crawling out of the woodwork to oppose any such idea.

A whole lot of the MM reminds me of the old movie Animal House –

Dead! Bluto’s right. Psychotic… but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part!

There was a post a while back about “Who will be our Spartacus”, and in a recent discussion William Wallace was brought up – along with his stirring speech to the ragtag army of Scottish farmers facing the English war machine. Spartacus was killed, thousands of his followers crucified, William Wallace was first castrated, then his head cut off and put on a pike and his body cut into 4 parts and sent to the 4 corners of England.

I get really tired of wannabe MRAs jumping up and suggesting really futile, stupid, and self-destructive gestures.

On the other hand, Antonio Gramsci proposed, in the 1930s, a “long march through the culture” changing the fundamental nature of cultural institutions. Now, a bit more than 70 years later, everything he prescribed has come to pass.

A very fundamental question is – do we have the same strength of our convictions that the cultural Marxists did, and are we willing to set out on a long march of our own that most of us will not live to see complete?

The reason we are in the mess we are in is because our culture is addicted to feel-good quick-fix ideas that do not solve the problem but actually make it worse. Systemically, the alphas and high betas want to see lower betas cuckolded – with their babies.

Even a guy who has been some sort of MRA a lot longer than a lot of guys here have been alive sees a whole lot of problems with the idea. It seems a bit like the nuclear arms race between the USA and the USSR – mutually assured destruction being seen as the only effective deterrent.

I have seen enough betas to have become convinced that you could not give most of them a set of balls even if you tried – they just don’t want them. Plenty of betas will marry single moms and try to raise their kids already knowing they are not their own. The women don’t even have to lie.

We say that men understand opportunity costs. I think there is a huge opportunity cost in pursuing a goal which is almost certainly futile, just to get our blood moving.

Maybe we could start by getting PT on demand for guys who marry women like Karen Owen. Even the most determined White Knight could probably be convinced that if she turned up pregnant, and told one of those 13 guys “you are the father”, he would have pretty strong justification for asking “Are you SURE it isn’t one of those other 12 guys? Are you willing to provide proof so I can be sure?”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
zed November 7, 2010 at 16:26

To belatedly answer Tim’s question above, about what I would suggest doing –
1) Vigorously agitate for the end of the pussy pass in sentencing female criminals
2) Vigorously agitate for the prosecution and punishment of false rape accusers
3) Continue to spread the word about the excesses of FEMININE-ism, and concentrate not on changing the minds of White Knights, but guys who have already woken up by themselves to the fact that something is seriously fucked up about this culture, but do not have the tools at hand to fight off the gynocentrists when they try shame attacks to force the men to comply
4) Spread the knowledge of Game, the catalog of shaming tactics, and the bankruptcy of leftist ideas,
5) Agitate for the development and availability of effective reliable birth control for men
6) Starve the beast by Going Our Own Way, refusing to rescue women, or buy products from companies who use man-bashing in their advertisements, or in any way supporting any anti-male institutions – e.g. refusing to donate to your alma mater if they have a women’s studies department.
7) Never pass up a chance to sabotage the fem-borg and throw sand in the gears of the machine.

These are a combination of individual survival strategies and long term pressure to produce cultural change nudged in the direction we want it to go by our continued pressure.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
rob November 8, 2010 at 07:00

One of the worst is when some guy jumps in and says something like “I know! Let’s climb Mt. Everest!!!” In other words, they propose something so grandiose, so at odds with the direction and momentum of the cultural stream, that it really comes off like bong dreams.

That’s not the worst.

The worst is when you try to say to them, “OK, let’s organize and get our climbing gear out of the closet first.”

“Noooooo! You don’t understand! I want to climb Mt Everest.”

“OK, but don’t you think we should get our climbing gear first?”

“Man are you stupid! Can’t you hear me? I want to climb Everest, and all you are doing is yammering about something in the closet, you moron!”

And it doesn’t have to neccessarily be a newbie, either. A couple months ago, a “40yr veteran of the MRM” (a marriage saver), wrote a grand piece demanding that the MRM unify, so we can accomplish something.

“OK,” I proposed, “what are the first steps to creating unity? Do you think it would be possible to unify 10, 15 or 20 popular bloggers to simply make a concerted effort to use certain words in their articles which will help create unity (hegemony) within the MRM, while helping our cause at the same time. I mean it should be possible to get 15 people to unify for something so simple as introducing 10 or 20 words or phrases.”

“These ideas are all just farts in the wind! I have been at this for 40 years now!”

“Well, exactly how is it useful to write an OP crying for men to unify, but yet put forth absolutely no plan to unify them? What creates unity? How does one create hegemony? If we cannot even unite 15 bloggers to do something which takes no effort and is free… how is a generic clarion call to ‘unify’ going to work? Hasn’t this been tried before?”

“You’re just a fool. And I have never even heard of you,” he replies, “I won’t waste anymore time talking to fools like you. You obviously don’t know what you are talking about.”

I’ve never bothered to read another piece from that asshat ever again. He sure created a lot of “unity.” Lol!

It was a good idea though. Men around the world should unite and throw off their chains… or something brilliant like that.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4
J. Durden November 8, 2010 at 08:31

“OK,” I proposed, “what are the first steps to creating unity? Do you think it would be possible to unify 10, 15 or 20 popular bloggers to simply make a concerted effort to use certain words in their articles which will help create unity (hegemony) within the MRM, while helping our cause at the same time. I mean it should be possible to get 15 people to unify for something so simple as introducing 10 or 20 words or phrases.”

Actually Rob, do you have any such list drawn up? I’ve been meaning to revisit my essays on language – considering I have about two or three times the amount of raw quotes pulled from the articles I read compared to the size of the essays – and I wouldn’t mind touching on that topic either. (I’ve long thought it a good idea. For example, whenever I talk about college, I always refer to it as the “public credentialing institution” or something similar.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2
rob November 8, 2010 at 11:18

Actually Rob, do you have any such list drawn up?

Well, not really a particular list. What I keep using as my example, is how we ought to start referring to Traditional Rapes and Lesser Rapes, and refusing to simply use the generic word “rape.” (Even simply processing the word “Traditional” in your mind, subconsciously alters your mind into acknowledging there are other kinds of rape than the Traditional).

After that, one can keep dividing definitions and use Critical Theory (criticize to confuse and destroy – it was used on us!) to completely obliterate the “Rape Industry.”

The same thing can be done with “abortion.”

We need to think up new words to describe abortion – we need to divide the definition of abortion, and then divide it again, and again, and again. Confuse the living shit out of it.

Today, “abortion” covers everything, and the fembots hide behind it all the time.

For example, it is often pointed out that 2/3 of people support abortion.

This is simply a play on meaning, masked by the generic word “abortion.”

A more realistic reporting would be that 1/3 of people support abortion on demand (birthcontrol abortion) and 1/3 of people support abortion in cases of maternal health, Traditional Rape and incest, and 1/3 of people are completely opposed to all abortions.

When one looks at the numbers of abortions however, one will see that only a very miniscule amount are for maternal health, Traditional Rape and incest.

So… the goal is to confuse the generic definition of “abortion” by refusing to only say abortion. Always put the adjective in front of it:

Birth Control Abortion
Maternal Health Abortion
Traditional Rape Abortion
Incest Abortion

The point is, to subconsciously change the “though patterns” of the general population without them really even being overly concerned about the issues.

Once the word “abortion” is so confusing that it can only be properly identified by including its adjective, the damage is done.

“I had an abortion.”

“An abortion? What kind of abortion did you have?

And, of course, the vast majority will be “Birth Control Abortion” and since most people are against Birth Control Abortion, most people will also subconsciously start turning on the Birth Control Abortion crowd.

(This is how you create Political Correctness, btw)

It can be done for a host of subjects.

“You were raped? What kind of rape?”
Traditional Rape?
or, one of the Lesser Rapes?
- Date Rape
- Spousal Rape
- Statuatory Rape
- Visual Rape
- Cyber Rape
- Financial Rape
- Character Rape
- Etcetera Rape

It psychological “fractures” the concept in your mind – whether you want it to or not.

This is how this stuff came in, this is how it can leave too.

We write on the internet anyways… these words will start to enter our vocabularly if MRM writers start using them, and then when the readers talk to others outside of the MRM, they will be passing on the words in their conversations, until it begins to enter the culture.

Sure, it takes a few years.

Most of us will still be writing a few years from now too. So, isn’t it beneficial to do? And, it is simple, legal, and free.

Several years ago, the entire MRM was in a hubbub about being called “Anti Feminist” because it showed we were anti-equality and portrayed us badly. (Lol! Except for me – I’ve always been a damn proud anti-feminist!) At any rate, it was also around this time that lots of people were complaing that nobody even knew what the word “misandry” meant.

Well, over five years, “misandry” has been used a lot by the MRM, and misandry is certainly entering the English language, and less and less people are questioning what it means, as well as it is showing up in more and more articles that are not directly within the MRM… in other words, playing with words works.

This can be done for a variety of issues, and will certainly help give us a leg up, because this kind of stuff expands outside of the MRM and goes into the general culture – which is really what needs to be affected.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
Denis November 8, 2010 at 13:10

This whole bickering back and forth is pointless and the race issue is bullshit and irrelevant.

My greatest criticism of the equal parenting crowd is that they deliberately avoid the DV issues. While I am a big fan of Barbara Kay, she is still a traditionalist who would never criticize male chivalry and feminine privilege. Barbara Kay is simply anti-feminist and a fair-weather friend to the MRM.

While I can certainly agree on a libertarian perspective, we must also recognize political reality and we must actively seek equality for men in all aspects of law. Equal shared parenting and reforming the DV system are political realities in the short term.

Someday, when women are truly treated as equals to men with equal responsibilities, they will realize that it isn’t such a good deal that men have been dealt. At that point in time, women will come to their senses and realize that the big government nanny-state is their enemy. Then the revolution begins.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10
Denis November 8, 2010 at 13:10

This whole bickering back and forth is pointless and the race issue is bullshit and irrelevant.

My greatest criticism of the equal parenting crowd is that they deliberately avoid the DV issues. While I am a big fan of Barbara Kay, she is still a traditionalist who would never criticize male chivalry and feminine privilege. Barbara Kay is simply anti-feminist and a fair-weather friend to the MRM.

While I can certainly agree on a libertarian perspective, we must also recognize political reality and we must actively seek equality for men in all aspects of law. Equal shared parenting and reforming the DV system are political realities in the short term.

Someday, when women are truly treated as equals to men with equal responsibilities, they will realize that it isn’t such a good deal that men have been dealt. At that point in time, women will come to their senses and realize that the big government nanny-state is their enemy. Then the revolution begins.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 11
Allen November 8, 2010 at 16:23

I find it ironic that the same dude who cries racism and insults the predominantly white audience here at Spearhead, is now begging for your support because his little ol’ blog was shut down. Most of you have jumped at the chance to get his blog restored while admitting his views are a crock of poop. Did anybody bother to fact check is allegations? Verify the veracity of what he’s writing? I assure you if you had you would have learned things aren’t always as they appear. From what I’ve read on the topic, WordPress didn’t shut him down because of his views, attacks, or whatever else you want to call them. It was a simple case of copyright infringement. Furthermore, if another person says he was silenced I’m going to throw my computer. Silencing someone is prohibiting by force to ever speak again. He wasn’t silenced. He still has the right to start a new blog on another site. Supporting the very man that despises you does nothing for your MRA “movement”. Even a blind man can see he’s only running back to you because he needs you. Not because he respects or cares about this “movement” or any of you. Lastly, I’m curious to know if you all know the type of person writing for this site. Here Mu’Min Bey writes about his life as being a “self-educated astrologer” who has spent some time in prison. Looks like one of the other commenters had done his/her research after all and wasn’t just spitting nonfactual vitriol. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic-astrology-jyotisha/295268-mu-min-life.html

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 12
Firepower November 8, 2010 at 17:30

Allen November 8, 2010 at 16:23

WordPress didn’t shut him down because of his views, attacks, or whatever else you want to call them. It was a simple case of copyright infringement.

It’s never “simple” – when you can play the Race Card. “IT” goes from an issue of irresponsible personal behavior to a Social Injustice Cause/March.

I find it ironic that the same dude who cries racism and insults the predominantly white audience here at Spearhead, is now begging for your support because his little ol’ blog was shut down. Most of you have jumped at the chance to get his blog restored while admitting his views are a crock of poop.

The kids here who adhere to this view were raised by their moms, teachers and TV to automatically knee-jerk react in such a manner.

They are the same sort who cheer dropping Red Cross packages and coloring books in Fallujah and Kabul as the battle still rages.

Such tender warriors
will never see
one victory

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 7
Robert Griffith November 8, 2010 at 20:31

I always liked Obsidsian’s stuff. In fact, he reminds me alot of a friend of mine. A pretty close friend of mine (a black dude) who got f*cked over bigtime by his wife. (also black) This dude who I will refer to as bob worked 50, 60, and even 70 hours a week to support this female and his child. In the end, she was laying up with thugz while my buddy was at work trying to build them a better life. To make a long story short, she was given custody of the kids EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PROVEN BEYOND A DOUBT THAT SHE WAS ADULTEROUS. Needless to say he has to grin and bear it while they take a huge chunk of change out of his checks to give to this dishonerable woman. I came to the conclusion that many of the issues that effect white men (in the white community for lack of a better term) also effect the black man as well. In regards to family courts, a black dude will get STEPPED ON (As will a white guy) when it comes to the perceived welfare of a woman. White or black.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4
Obsidian November 9, 2010 at 00:45

Hi Allen,
Again, Ad Hominem is the last refuge of scoundrels. And I think it interesting that a similar post appeared on another site around the same time that yours was posted.

Hmm.

First of all, you attribute things to me that I never said. For example, I don’t hate any of the Men here, nor do I hate White Men in general. Yes, I do address racial issues, but that’s a far cry from being a hatemonger, LOL. Secondly, what does my past have to do with the issues at hand? Either address the matters on their merits, or don’t. What I did or didn’t do more than a decade ago, is largely irrelevant, don’t you think?

Thirdly, I have never hidden my involvement in astrology, nor my personal record. Again, I don’t think its germane to the topic(s) at hand here, but you seem to think so. Please explain? Because if you’re attempting to make the case that I’m some sort of misogynist, there is ample evidence, right here on The Spearhead, that can put that notion to rest, LOL.

Finally, the reason why I came back here – and let’s be clear, I was never booted off to begin with, I just chose to let things cool down since my last post back in the Summer – was because it had been brought to my attention that a few other blogging voices in the manosphere were being shutdown or otherwise silenced for daring to raise important questions about the current matriarchal system we live in. My post also addressed the then-extant Juan Williams issue, and at the same my blog was shutdown, MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann was being put through the ringer. He’s since been reinstated, Williams is now with Fox News and making a princely sum of money, and my own blog will be back up and running very soon. In fact I was just doing a bit more research on the matter. I’ll have more to say about the details in due course; no doubt, you’ll be staying tuned.

Now, how about actually addressing the issues here? Yes, technically, I was got for copyright infringement, but we all know what the real deal is here. Something else I’ll be going into when my blog is fully back up and running, in its bigger and better version.

Now, hold that pose…

O.

mgtow November 9, 2010 at 02:05

[Begin Quote]
. Laura November 5, 2010 at 17:19 Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

Joe,
I am curious. Quite a few of the men on here take the tack of saying they want nothing to do with women. I just don’t think that most heterosexual men want to go through life having nothing to do with women. It wouldn’t be much of a life…
[/End Quote]

Gentlemen, please meet Laura, a typical conceited bitch.

“What? You aren’t interested in women/won’t marry or have a LTR with one? You must be a homo! You must not have a life!”

No other way to put it, and I do apologize in advance to any man who may be offended by profanities.

Laura, fuck off.

Regarding Obsidian… I’m ambivalent. The scourge of feminism knows no boundaries, including racial ones.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Ray Manta November 9, 2010 at 07:05

Allen said :
I find it ironic that the same dude who cries racism and insults the predominantly white audience here at Spearhead, is now begging for your support because his little ol’ blog was shut down.

I can live with the insults – there are worse things to be accused of than not wanting to bathe frequently to impress girls. As to support, he’s not going to get much more from me than my condolences plus advice to start a new blog under his own domain. My guess this is true for most of the people posting here, although they may help in recovering some of his material.

Most of you have jumped at the chance to get his blog restored while admitting his views are a crock of poop.

People have been known to stand on principle before, even for unattractive characters. MikeEE (a get-a-life troll reviled for his desire for underaged girls) complained once to hacker and blogger Eric Raymond that his software had been deleted from SourceForge by some feminists. Raymond made no bones about his personal revulsion to MikeEE but took the stance that what was done was wrong. For that, he (Raymond) has earned my respect.

MikeEE, despite his permanent residency on the lunatic fringe, made two unescapable points:
(1) A software repository shouldn’t be in the business of censoring developers based on their personal viewpoints.
(2) Women who invade mostly-male domains have an influence disproportionate to their actual contributions. I’m willing to bet that most of the women who got MikeEE kicked off have contributed very little code themselves.

Did anybody bother to fact check is allegations? Verify the veracity of what he’s writing?

I wrote my own reply in support of Obsidian without doing any more research beyond visiting a few blogs – they simply stated that his website had been taken down. If you think I spoke so soon, fine. But WordPress has a past record of doing this to bloggers.

WordPress didn’t shut him down because of his views, attacks, or whatever else you want to call them. It was a simple case of copyright infringement.

If you believe that one, I have a custom-made bridge to sell you that connects to Brooklyn. WordPress didn’t shut him down over copyright infringement; he was shut down because it was the convenient thing for them to do so. The copyright thing was just an excuse. I’ve seen similar things happen before with free services such as Geocities, in fact it’s happened to me.

Having said that, the lesson to be learned is that if you have something controversial to say, don’t use a free service for it. Register a domain name
and put your blog there.

Lastly, I’m curious to know if you all know the type of person writing for this site. Here Mu’Min Bey writes about his life as being a “self-educated astrologer” who has spent some time in prison.

I consider astrology a very silly belief system myself. It’s interesting, but also
pretty far in the past. As to how I think about Obsidian as a blogger, I’ve liked some of the stuff he’s written about M/F relationships. It’s too bad he got carried away with the black power shtick and burned some bridges here.

Since I’ve offered an opinion of him, I’ll give one of you. I suspect you’re more interested in kicking around Obsidian than making any positive commentary on men’s issues. I hope to be proven wrong on that one.

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Firepower November 9, 2010 at 10:24

Robert Griffith November 8, 2010 at 20:31

I always liked Obsidsian’s stuff. In fact, he reminds me alot of afriend of mine. A pretty close friend of mine (a black dude) who got f*cked over bigtime by his wife. (also black)

In the all-inclusive diversity sweatlodge MRM movement wished for here, it’s good that you feel the need to point out their races.

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AnonaMissLurker November 11, 2010 at 11:19

I enjoyed reading Obsidian’s blog.
You can smear Obsidian, but we can also point out the fact that there are plenty of blogs on wordpress that “violate TOS” and they are still up and running. I don’t think this man was shut down because of rules,
I think he was shut down because some people just hated him and had anger towards him, grudges and they complained about him to wordpress to take a jab at him.
I believe Bene Veira claims SHE is the sole reason, meanwhile there are others who complained about Obsidian just to remove him out of spite and they don’t admit they did it.
WordPress will shut down blogs if they get alot of complaints, its not always about the rules.
Start over Obsidian and keep on trucking.

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