The Modern Woman’s Self-Deception

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by Thag Jones on October 10, 2010

I made a comment here and was asked if I could expand on it in article form, so these are some thoughts on the way women work, and about how we cause our own problems in relationships with men. I have been reading some of the pick-up artist blogs and they seem to have some good insight into how women work that has helped open my eyes quite a bit, so I must give credit where it’s due, but it doesn’t hurt (for women especially) to hear it from a woman as well, especially as the PUAs tend to be pretty unforgiving in their assessments.

This also expands a bit on my earlier post on this topic.

One commenter said the following:

He may even stray on his wife, but normally when he does he still feels a strong bond to his wife.

To which I responded:

This is the problematic part for most women I think. On the one hand, we do want a man that other women find attractive, on the other, we want him all to ourselves. It’s a bit of a double bind, because if we perceive a man as not arousing sexual interest in other women, he stops arousing it in us, but when we see that he does arouse other women, we get insanely jealous. I guess that’s the “sexual value” part of how we work, and why women fight over a man with a higher perceived sexual value. Not to mention how PUAs work us.

To take it a little further, this is something I think most women have struggled with – and in defining what is and what isn’t “cheating,” because it hurts when some other woman has the attention of the man you are with. There’s just no way around that unless you date/marry someone no one else wants, then of course you’re back to the old problem that then you don’t want him either.

I don’t know what the answer is besides suffering in silence, which seems to most of us kind of tragic and unfair, not to mention unfashionably stoic. Fighting about it won’t resolve it though, so somehow all that’s left is to accept a certain level of imperfection. If we could attain perfection, we would instantly become bored anyway. We also have to fight the urge to make a man into a project. We all know what happens with that – if we are successful in remaking him, we find him too malleable and therefore unattractive and not manly enough. If we do not succeed, we come to a crossroads at which we have to decide what it is we really want. What we say we want means nothing; it’s what we do that counts. Women need to look at what (and who) they do in order to get a clear picture of what drives them, without rationalizing their “bad boy” complex. The ideal beta male most women describe as what they want is definitely practical, good for long term stability and so on, but they are in denial of their basic sexual natures if they claim to find that a major turn-on. For the good beta male, no doubt this can be very painful, probably more so than the tendency for men to have a wandering eye that can be painful to a decent woman, because it speaks to the core of who he is, not just his physical attractiveness. There is a difference between reasonable and unreasonable expectations and women have a whole lot of unreasonable expectations.

I feel it necessary to say, before I am accused of excusing a man’s infidelity, that it is reasonable to expect, in a contracted relationship (marriage or some agreement that the relationship is exclusive and long term), that each partner stay faithful to one another and that there is enough trust and comfort that each partner feels he or she can admit to temptations and simply air them without fear of attack. If that means someone has to be left alone for a cooling off period before reasonable discussion can resume, that’s what needs to happen. I also am not saying nice betas are doomed – it’s a matter, I think, of women being more honest with themselves (at which I can already hear some of you scoffing) in order that they might make better decisions based on the desire for long term stability. It’s not like men don’t do this; do you really think they never get an urge to stray and find some novelty? But that’s just it – the desire for novelty is also innate in humans to an extent and we live in a culture that relentlessly encourages novelty seeking through consumerism and affairs (the success of Ashley Madison being a prime example).

One point to remember is that no relationship is going to be “perfect,” whatever that might mean. There’s an old Zen tradition I believe where even in painting a room, a part is left unpainted so as to represent the imperfection of life. It’s hard to get over the romantic desire for an all-encompassing relationship, in which two people are like “soul mates” for whom there is no other – and maybe it’s futile to try – but that can only go so far, and there is always an element of choosing to make a person into one’s animus/anima. The shine always wears off after the initial bonding stage of a relationship, and that’s where a certain amount of work is needed. Not spirit crushing, constant dissection and discussion, but just some effort, which might just be the effort it takes to be quiet and non-judgemental, to just enjoy each other’s presence in silence.

There will be times where we get a bit lazy, and the effort comes in pulling ourselves out of that. It’s the same in every aspect of life – work gets boring, child-rearing gets tedious – but it’s up to us to lift ourselves up somehow. This requires a capacity for forgiveness and a lack of hubris that so many of today’s women lack completely. We have been trained by the feminist establishment to believe we deserve to have our every ridiculous desire and whim fulfilled (you can have it all!) just for breathing, and humility and submission are seen as dirty words. Instead we’ll tend to live by the maxim “get even” (I’d say “don’t get mad, get even,” but boy do we get mad, so I left off the first part). The trouble is, by doing that we only add more garbage to the pile and we have to live with the stink of it too. It’s also not loving behaviour.

Once we realize how we’ve been duped by unattainable fantasies and how we are hard wired to find certain qualities in a potential mate attractive, we can be more honest with ourselves and save time as well as heartbreak and in many cases, ruination for one or both partners. I’ve made my share of mistakes, which I regret every day, so I’m left with the following options: look coldly at it all, or fool myself. No doubt there are many women my age who come to this crossroads in life, after relationship failures and divorce, finding themselves single and competing with a younger crop of available women. The proliferation of “cougar” fare speaks to that, but there is more than a whiff of delusion and desperation there and it is simply not useful as well as being the logical next step in feminist brainwashing in the name of “empowerment.” The idea of competing with my daughters for the same males is just sick to me, but that is more or less what we have right now, and it’s pathetic. The lack of ability to face reality in this culture is astounding really and I simply look on with bemused wonder at it all. When will we grow up?

A possible answer is when younger women look at where older women who have lived as they are now, brainwashed by feminism, have ended up and decide they don’t want that fate for themselves. I’d like to think that by writing and talking about it, some of them can be reached and disabused of the lies they have been fed about “empowerment” and see that adopting male vices doesn’t empower them, but enslaves and disenfranchises them, and leaves the good guys with few viable options except to simply opt out of monogamy and marriage altogether, look elsewhere or become a Mennonite. Stoic resistance is a hard sell in our current culture, but it is still something worth bringing up and thinking about, because what we’re doing now is clearly not working.

{ 94 comments… read them below or add one }

Steve October 10, 2010 at 12:51

The beauty found in the mind of some women beyond 30 eclipes the fleeting superficial beauty of the lean bodies found among 20-somethings. Of course poundage and cougar-ness can negate this truism.

Wisdom from a man closer to 50 than 40!

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 37 Thumb down 39
Danger October 10, 2010 at 12:57

I will always find the 20 somethigns more beautful.

It’s just such a shame that girls mainly want to sleep around with the worthless men who will never amount to much more than a gina tingle in the woman they are having sex with.

Of course, once those woman reach 30 and can no longer compete, they move on to the Betas.

The best bet for Betas is to use that to their advantage and hit the 30 somethings for a few romps and move on to the next one. Unless they want to be tied to an old over-ridden vag for the remainder of his life……or until she decides she is bored and wants to take half of his stuff.

Long live the marriage strike.

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barbarossaa October 10, 2010 at 13:28

i remember when i was 14 and i first read 20,000 leagues under the sea. there was the scene where captain nemo rescued a poor pearl diver from a shark attack, and gave him a pouch full of gold. his shipmates could not understand why he put himself at such great risk to help a lowly pearl diver he didnt even know. He responded by saying.

“That Indian, sir, is an inhabitant of an oppressed country; and I am still, and shall be, to my last breath, one of them!”

my whole point is that whatever revelations women are having about their ass-backwards masochistic sexual desires, and however many of us mgtow break into reality and see the dark side of women for what it is. we are still just “betas” to them. whether your banging a different girl every week or you cant get a single girl.. for the vast majority of men, if they ever knew who you really are. youd just be another beta to them.

ive gotten laid more times than i can count, but to women i say this..

fuck your “attraction” and your hypocrisy. fuck your “beta/alpha” categorizations and objectifications of men, and most importantly fuck what category you put ME in because as far as “betas” go i will always be one of them to at least 1 of you.

im just one of the few “betas” that can see you for what you are, and id much rather be a beta than a dishonest lying harpy like the majority of women.

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Lovekraft October 10, 2010 at 13:30

I don’t really care anymore what an adult’s emotional needs are. Too many other pressing issues that require our attention.

This is just navel gazing and really drains the resources of everyone in her sphere. Best to tell her to grow up and either accept her man or leave.

Enough coddling the entitled princesses.

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Keyster October 10, 2010 at 13:55

Ever since the political became the personal men and women have struggled more than ever to try and keep an already tenuous balance of power between each other. Women were told to FIGHT their husbands for power, causing untold domestic strife. Then the daughters of these marriages read Cosmopolitan Magazine, took their marching orders and ran with them; “Hey, you can be a feminist AND a slut too!”

Sorry Thag, you won’t be closing Pandora’s Box. You’re trying to convince women to give up power (they think their grandmothers “fought for”). They’ll never do it, and the more miserable they become as a result, the more they’ll blame men. It’s too bad, but we have to accept the reality of it. That’s why its important we reach as many oblivious young men as possible to be better informed and aware.

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Traveller October 10, 2010 at 13:56

Congratulations for this interesting and deep article.

You got exactly the two main irrational behavior of women:

1 – They want a man other women want, but after they are jealous. It is like buying uncomfortable shoes just to show them to the friends, or buying costly products just because of their brand.

2 – They want the alpha, but as soon as they have it, they want transform him in a beta: if he does fascinating extreme sports, they after committment want he stops because it is dangerous, if they get the alpha cop or soldier, they after want he stay away from the first line, if they get the alpha businessman, they after want he stay more at home and work much less.

Anyway, thanks for the sincerity: we betas are doomed :-) We know, we know, just do not continue repeat it :-)

But beware, this is a flowing field, who knows the betas of today can become the alphas of tomorrow: a nerd can invent a breakthrough technology, if not him, who else?

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Thag Jones October 10, 2010 at 14:08

I don’t really care anymore what an adult’s emotional needs are. Too many other pressing issues that require our attention.

This is just navel gazing[...]

True that. But women do love to navel gaze so they might as well at least be honest about it instead of all Oprahish self-congratulation and painting misbehaviour as something self-fulfilling a la Eat Pray Love and other garbage. I think that just leads to a sort of never ending adolescent self-obsession, whereas if you are honest with yourself you can get to a point where you grow up a bit and stop worrying about getting all your “needs” fulfilled and damn the consequences.

Like the woman who thinks destroying her family was all good because she got some infantile “need” met by f*cking her way around Europe and gets a book and movie deal out of it, which Oprah happily glorifies for the masses. “Oooh, maybe I should try that!” say her zombie viewers.

Traveller, I guess I’m doomed too at this point. Oh well!

Reader October 10, 2010 at 14:15

Hi Thag,

Excellent article, again!

“It’s not like men don’t do this; do you really think they never get an urge to stray and find some novelty?”

True enough. But after a relatively short time, there is no longer any actual novelty in sex. (And I say this as one who is knowledgeable in BDSM and so on.)

One reason why sexually successful alphas not infrequently settle down with one woman is that all pussy is pretty much the same. After a time, looking for more new “strange,” which is just like the old, stops being worth the effort.

Something else to think about is how all of this ties into the idea that “the purpose of life is to create life,” and whether this idea actually makes sense.

A woman who could provide actual ongoing novelty is so aberrant and deviant that she is the opposite of the modern woman, and thus so rare that she is almost impossible to find.

Such a woman would be smart, imaginative, energetic, kind, nurturing, devoted and loyal.

Novelty is never static, and one way of experiencing it is by creating it through an exclusive energizing relationship. Such a relationship is possible between two people who are fundamentally compatible and who enjoy making each other happy, in other words “soul mates.”

As you said: “The shine always wears off after the initial bonding stage of a relationship, and that’s where a certain amount of work is needed. Not spirit crushing, constant dissection and discussion, but just some effort, which might just be the effort it takes to be quiet and non-judgemental, to just enjoy each other’s presence in silence.”

But it goes further than that. There is actually no reason for this “work” to have to be work. Two people who like taking care of each other (as a basic character trait) easily ignore and discard the unintentional and inevitable garbage, which then recedes into the distance as they continue to build a bigger and better (and more fun and loving) life.

Of course, the more I learn about the nature of women, the more I become convinced that very few women have such capacity
or even potential. And taking a chance on any woman now would be crazy.

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Lord Viktor October 10, 2010 at 14:21

Oh, Thag, Thag, Thag!

I pity thee, but Keyster was right.

I truly applaud your efforts and your insights. I believe that, unlike what Barbarosaaa is willing to admit, you are one of the few older women whose eyes have truly been opened.

But I’m afraid you and your sisters are too late.

Pandora’s Box has been open since the bra-burning sixties, but at least Pandora managed to close the accursed box before Hope escaped.

But in your case, Hope was obliterated once the Feminazis and their Mangina minions took the reins of power. And not only did you girls wait for Hope to escape, you grabbed it, choked it, broke its neck and crushed it under your heel.

So go ahead, close the Box. Seal it shut with superglue, dip it in concrete, and cast into the bottom of the ocean. It won’t do you any good now.

And while I’m glad to see that you are trying to repair the damage in your own way, your efforts are not gonna succeed unless women EN MASSE hop onboard to help you. And that shit ain’t gonna happen, there are too many arrogant Entitlement Princesses roaming about for me believe they will.

I’m sorry.

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Lord Viktor October 10, 2010 at 14:24

“Like the woman who thinks destroying her family was all good because she got some infantile “need” met by f*cking her way around Europe and gets a book and movie deal out of it, which Oprah happily glorifies for the masses. “Oooh, maybe I should try that!” say her zombie viewers.”

My point exactly. Like I said before, Thag. You’re too late.

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Herbal Essence October 10, 2010 at 14:30

I think Thag deserves two thumbs up on this one. It displays some deep insight, and the fact it comes from a woman’s perspective adds an interesting energy. Would be great reading to send to males who are trending towards mangina but haven’t gone over completely.

Now that I’m more aware of this stuff these days, I can actually feel it when women are sizing me up. Of course, I don’t change my normal behavior one bit, as I have no interest in spending time with them.
For instance, I was in a trendy coffee shop in my town last Saturday, and took an empty seat across from a really cute geeky girl with retro eyeglasses on. Her indicators of interest in me were blinking rapidly and nearly setting off a siren, but i was just like “Whatever.” Yes I could have gotten her number, but for what purpose? Maybe a few romps in the hay and then the claws would come out. No thanks.

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Snark October 10, 2010 at 14:52

Haven’t read the article yet. The picture made me nearly cry with laughter.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
Dalrock October 10, 2010 at 15:26

@Danger
The best bet for Betas is to use that to their advantage and hit the 30 somethings for a few romps and move on to the next one.

Like this?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
Dalrock October 10, 2010 at 15:30

this is something I think most women have struggled with – and in defining what is and what isn’t “cheating,” because it hurts when some other woman has the attention of the man you are with. There’s just no way around that unless you date/marry someone no one else wants, then of course you’re back to the old problem that then you don’t want him either.

My wife cracked me up the other day. We had been to Oktoberfest with the kids and everyone was worn out. I went in to pick up some food we had ordered from a nearby roadhouse we had a groupon for. My hair was all messed up so before I went in I combed it a bit with my fingers. Thinking of the waitresses inside she reached over and messed up my hair again when I was done. The look she gave me was priceless.

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Troll King October 10, 2010 at 15:37

Herbal Essence:

This article could save alot of men from white knightery. This is why I asked thag to write it, and why I am going to steal it and put it on my new site. It’s the reason I started I can has equality. I want it to be a primer for younger guys. We just need to get about 20% of men onboard with our basic mission, according to the Pareto Principle, and we will see major ripple effects in society.

Maybe you would like to submit some articles to http://icanhasequality.blogspot.com

Or anyone can, I am not picky but it’s meant to be more mainstream thn the trollkingdom so no cursing or heavily hostile material. I want alot of mra 101 type stuff.

Contact@:
[email protected]

Thag: Good article. Could be better. I would like to see an article written by a woman detailing the vector of female attraction and the trajectory of women take in relationships. I have noticed that alot of women move in piece meal. They get a drawer and closet space, some area in the bathroom of their males house. Then they start sleeping over all the time and hijack guys with moving in because it would be cheaper…then the dependency goes down hill from there it seems. Idk…I can’t explain alot of the nesting instict found in women…I kinda get it from a evolutionary perspective…but IDK. I do think this will help alot of young guys, especially if they can observe the behavior in their own gf’s and female aqcuintences and family members.

But good article none the less.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1
Abject Man October 10, 2010 at 15:40

How to calibrate how jealous you should be about the men of your dreams… wow… what a radical topic.

You know, Thag, sorry to be blunt but, really, we don’t give a hoot. Not anymore.

If women had the wiring to “get it,” feminism wouldn’t have happened. But it did happen. Ergo…

Time for men to move on, and go their own way.

As Zed once said, you can’t un-pickle something that’s already been pickled.

Learn to live by yourselves, and get used to your old time buddy your right hand as your faithful surrogate alpha male. You all have very bulky mammalian brains… errr, vivid imaginations. That should make the cut.

You chose to have your *best* “relationships” with your fantasies, so you should be intellectually equipped to “act out the drama of being reasonable” with the alpha males in your fantasies now.

Men — especially men who are beyond their 20s and 30s and who now have a very good shot at not giving a hoot about anything of any concern to women — have better things to do — such as, enjoying our solitude and the *bliss* that comes from having decontaminated ourselves from all the drama that women desperately need to constantly titillate their primal brains so that they can somehow manage to relate to the world around them… you know, the one inhabited by those “imperfect” carbon-based male life forms who have to consent to watching their hard-earned wealth be confiscated in every imaginable way to subsidize the system that helps women lead lives not giving a f*ck about them.

- – -

P.S. “Pain” is an extreme form of sensitivity, and “Fear” (anticipation of Pain) is the way the world around you says “take notice of what I’m doing.” Learn to be buddies with these two fellas.

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Keyster October 10, 2010 at 15:45

And not only did you girls wait for Hope to escape, you grabbed it, choked it, broke its neck and crushed it under your heel.

The male side clings to hope.
But there are fewer doing it with each generation.
We’re in the midst of the tipping point right now.

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Robert October 10, 2010 at 16:26

From all the evidence i have seen, (social pathologist and a book by Michelle Langley about Women’s Infidelity come to mind) women are more likely than women to cheat. And they are more likely to mean it when they do. Men are more likely to become emotionally dependent on their wives to the point they can’t live without them. This agrees with my observations. Men make excuses for women, women get mad. For all the talk about alpha males, there are damned few of them.

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Robert October 10, 2010 at 16:30

to Troll King.
Google up “Rotating Polyandry—and its Enforcerers”
You’ll find the article you are looking for.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Reader October 10, 2010 at 17:08

Troll King,

The cats you hired to create “icanhasequality” forgot to register it with Blogger. :-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Danger October 10, 2010 at 17:46

@Dalrock

Something like that…..Fortunately for me I have improved myself enough to start hitting the 20 somethings that are 10 years younger than me.

However I still take advantage of the carousel regretters when they hitch themselves to my life for a few weeks. Some good points on that article though…..I have often wondered if they really thought I would be the nice guy Beta for them, or if I was merely the latest alpha on the longest carousel the world has ever seen.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
Troll King October 10, 2010 at 18:04

Robert: Thanks for the link man, I trolled across it some time ago.

Reader:Sorry bout that, it’s fixed. I had put a z for a s and mixed up the links. It should work now:

http://icanhasequality.blogspot.com

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
zimmy October 10, 2010 at 18:12

A good piece of writing; just an example:
————————————————–

“There will be times where we get a bit lazy, and the effort comes in pulling ourselves out of that. It’s the same in every aspect of life – work gets boring, child-rearing gets tedious – but it’s up to us to lift ourselves up somehow. This requires a capacity for forgiveness and a lack of hubris that so many of today’s women lack completely.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Alte October 10, 2010 at 18:59

Have you guys seen this article: Why ‘Mad Men’ is TV’s most feminist show?

But in 1965, feminism wasn’t a cultural option for most women. It would be another year before the National Organization for Women, the group that gave so many women the legal tools to fight discrimination, would be founded. Newspapers still ran separate want ads with separate pay scales for female jobs, seeking “poised, attractive” secretaries and “peppy gal Fridays.”

In those days there wasn’t even a term for sexual harassment, much less any law against it. In North Carolina, only a virgin or a married woman could bring rape charges, and many other states required two witnesses for a rape to be prosecuted. Everywhere, the concept of marital rape would have been laughed out of court. Like the characters in “Mad Men,” real-life single women seeking birth control in the early 1960s had difficulty finding a doctor willing to prescribe it. (Indeed, in some states, not even married women were allowed access to birth control.) Most states still had “head and master” laws that gave husbands final say over family decisions, including those concerning joint property.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 11
W.F. Price October 10, 2010 at 19:27

Have you guys seen this article: Why ‘Mad Men’ is TV’s most feminist show?

-Alte

yeah, typical excuse for watching such lowbrow trash, which is all that Mad Men is.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2
Alte October 10, 2010 at 19:42

I’ve seen a lot of articles about it, but I’ve never seen the actual show. I don’t have TV and my husband has vetoed that show for DVD rentals.

I just thought it was interesting considering our latest discussions.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11
Thag Jones October 10, 2010 at 19:43

Like I said before, Thag. You’re too late.

You may well be right. Depending on how cynical I’m feeling, I come to this conclusion too, but I still feel compelled to at least try to get some ideas out, if for nothing else than to try to keep my own kids from being brainwashed. I never called myself a feminist or had much explicit instruction in “feminism,” it was just ‘there’ and that’s the whole problem with it. So now is the only time for me – I wasn’t even born yet in the 60s so I couldn’t do much then!

If someone else happens to read all this and a little light goes on or just the slightest spark of recognition or understanding, then that’s really all it’s for. Call me an optimist or whatever, but that’s how I see it. Can’t start a fire without a spark….or something. As for the power women have, is it really doing them or anyone else any good? Not that I can see.

Even so, I fear you are right. Alas.

Thag Jones October 10, 2010 at 20:01

From the Mad Men article (I also haven’t seen it, don’t watch TV):

When Betty Draper plops her children in front of the TV or slaps her daughter, it is an accurate reflection of 1960s parenting.

Oh the horror!

The rest of us, however, should tune in for a much-needed lesson on the devastating costs of a way of life that still evokes misplaced nostalgia.

What about the devastating costs of how we live now?

Everywhere, the concept of marital rape would have been laughed out of court.

What, like the concept of abused husbands now?

Surveys show that mothers in 1965 spent less time interacting with their children than today’s mothers, despite the fact that very few worked outside the home.

That’s because kids played outdoors and occupied themselves, instead of being helicoptered to the point of impotence by obsessive, neurotic, sometimes guilt-ridden parents today.

when Betty Draper exchanged one husband and provider for another, some critics complained that she did not experience any “personal growth” as a result

Because no fate is worse than not experiencing personal growth as a result of trading in your husband(s)!

So what do we have now that’s so much better? Oh, this movie poster I saw today really says a lot… Another “men are like babies” hyuck-fest. I bet that woman feels empowered! At least she’s not being sexually harassed though, because that guy is probably too busy playing video games.

3DShooter October 10, 2010 at 20:05

@Danger

Apparently you are unfamiliar with the old saw: “youth and avarice are no match for old age and treachery”. Learned that lesson many times when your age – just saying . . .

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0
Anonymous Protagonist October 10, 2010 at 20:20

There is no such thing as “too late”. It’s a solipsistic bit of bullshit – an invented idea. There is only life and what we make of it.

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David Collard October 10, 2010 at 20:43

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David Collard October 10, 2010 at 20:50

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Dubcik October 10, 2010 at 22:19

“We have been trained by the feminist establishment to believe we deserve to have our every ridiculous desire and whim fulfilled (you can have it all!) just for breathing, and humility and submission are seen as dirty words. ”

Feminists have told women that their personal desires trump EVERYTHING else in their lives. Feminists teach women to be narcissists. Oprah, books like “The Secret”, and topics like personal and spiritual growth top the list of women’s concerns. We are told, by magazine articles, that if your not happy at your job – leave it! Follow your heart, follow your dreams! If you don’t like your husband – leave him! It’s better for all involved, they tell us, especially the kids! If you lack substance in your life – join a new age spiritual group! Learn about yourself and love yourself above everyone else. Consult astrology and the stars, they will reveal your path in life to you!

That is literally the SHIT they have been feeding us for decades.

Never a work about responsibility.
Never a word about commitment.
Never a word about self-sacfirice or humility.
Never a word about consequenses.
Never a word about duty.
Never a word about truth, even when it will be difficult.

They have seriously fuc$ed up a generation of women who think that all that matters, in the whole entire world, is growing their “self-esteem”. It seems that many women nowadays feels like they are such special flowers, each one feeling more speacial than anybody else, whose only obligation in life is to fulfill all her selfish desires, because she deserves it damnit!

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Lord Viktor October 11, 2010 at 00:16

I took one look at the poster for “Life as We Know It” and that’s all I needed to decide I will never see that misandric steaming pile of dogshit.

Watching the trailer only confirmed my apprehensions. Yet another romantic comedy that only girls and their pussy-whipped boyfriends/husbands will watch.

And the manginas, but that goes without saying. They pretty much ARE women in every sense except the physical.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0
CM October 11, 2010 at 01:29

Astrology and the stars isn’t a bad thing to consult – new age spiritual crap can be interesting and sometimes helpful if only to give you something to occupy yourself with.

Feminists have nothing to do with either one. I agree when they touch it – it becomes somewhat flakey – but neither are flaky inherently.

But your values of duty, commitment, self sacrifice, consequences, truth and responsibility are also not bad things to familiarize yourself with either. These are all maturity virtues. Women are not taught these things… directly they have to learn them indirectly… as we see above Thag Jones is mature or maturing… While it may be too late – it’s better than nothing. Most women my age have already made the same mistake, and the ones younger than closer to the twenties are well on their way to realizing what Thag Jones has realized.

The ladies don’t realize that their narrow keyhole view of things is so tight now it precludes the ability for the outside world to exist. All they see is their navel – but there is nothing there. They run around with the assumptions of their “girlfriends” and other subconscious collective subroutines dictated by the animus and the animal drives – that they really never see the light of day or the true light off the skin of a sunny man’s nose. If they are on a spiritual path then Dubcik’s values will ultimately conquer them in order that they make any progress whatsoever, if we are talking about God, God is reality, MEN are MUCH easier to please than God… If you are pleasing God you are probably pleasing most everyone else as well long before God…

Anyhow the article is typical. I’ve read many like it. It’s too bad a female has to have a few daughters and be in a rut before reality comes back into view. But society and animus men are very happy to protect women from reality and any real conscious evolution. It’s because these “alphas” as you call them are not alphas… they are losers.

You women really think you know what a man is? Most men don’t even have a clue! How is it that you women who don’t even have a Y chromosome can fathom what a man is? It takes men years and years to even have a faintest clue that there may even BE such a thing… Some find it in fatherhood, others in divorce, others in war, others alone on the side of the road in the rain. Has any women experienced this in her life? Manhood is a utter unfathomable divine mystery – frankly our whole civilization is putridly infantile. There have been a few “real men” what should be properly called “alphas” throughout history, who were influential, but most of them were probably forgotten, because men are external – that is – men are the OTHER. We are on the outside – you women are on the inside, and your so enveloped in yourself – you cannot even recognize a man when he walks past.

You judge him by superficial trivialities – big arms, big wallet, big voice, what a joke! I’m looking forward to the re-education of women by their imminent downfall…

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CashingOut October 11, 2010 at 02:30

There’s a show more feminist than CSI? I would say that this I gotta see, but I can’t watch 3 minutes of CSI without becoming seriously pissed, ao I don’t think I could watch Mad Men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
Danger October 11, 2010 at 03:41

@3DShooter

It’s all about perspective…..to some I am still quite young, and to some I am quite old.

The young women only want to have sex without commitment, so I give it to them. The older women (my age) have changed their mind after a decade of no-strings-attached and now want a commitment and not just sex. It’s too bad that I too have changed my mind and now want just sex.

It has nothing to do with treachery…..I am honest with them from the start that I do not want anything serious, but they try anyways. Ah women.

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crella October 11, 2010 at 04:02

‘Mad Men’ is how a bunch of current feminist-programed women view the 60s…people under 50 0r so won’t know it’s utter bullshit.

I was trapped on a plane for 14 hours or so on a trip home to the US…and saw a couple of episodes…I figured ‘what the hell, this is the era I grew up in’ but some of the characters are so stereotypical (housewife on tranquilizers, can’t do anything about hubby’s infidelity) I just couldn’t get into it. Not the 60s I know. Anybody here older than me that can refute this crap now being shoveled as ‘the way it was’?

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crella October 11, 2010 at 04:05

The rest of us, however, should tune in for a much-needed lesson on the devastating costs of a way of life that still evokes misplaced nostalgia

By watching a TV program!? Puh-lease…..

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4
woggy October 11, 2010 at 05:02

A possible answer is when younger women look at where older women who have lived as they are now, brainwashed by feminism, have ended up and decide they don’t want that fate for themselves. I’d like to think that by writing and talking about it, some of them can be reached and disabused of the lies they have been fed about “empowerment” and see that adopting male vices doesn’t empower them, but enslaves and disenfranchises them, and leaves the good guys with few viable options except to simply opt out of monogamy and marriage altogether, look elsewhere or become a Mennonite.

With that, I hope to see this very essay appear where scads of women will read it.
As much as I enjoyed it myself, you’re preaching to the choir.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0
Zammo October 11, 2010 at 06:37

In the context of dating and finding a relationship, beta men simply don’t exist in the eyes of a woman. Beta men are completely and utterly invisible.

The only time beta men become even somewhat visible is when a woman needs something – a shoulder to cry on, hands to kill a spider, a brain to figure out a problem, a wallet to loot, sperm to impregnate, etc. But notice that in these cases the total man never becomes visible, just his required parts to address the woman’s need for that particular moment. He is an object, nothing more.

Two generations of women have been ruthlessly poisoned by feminism with the central message being “men are bad, women are good” and all the associated bullshit that goes along with that message. The “logic” of feminism proceeds down a grim path indeed: Because men are bad, their needs, wants, and desires are also bad so there is no reason to respect men or treat them as human beings.

I see Game and PUA as a response to contemporary, feminist attitudes which objectify men. Since women have absolutely no respect for men, the PUA crowd treats women equally – as objects to be manipulated for the purpose of physical pleasure, nothing more.

And here is the fundamental question: Once past the sexually and ability to give birth, what do modern women really have to offer a man?

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Robert October 11, 2010 at 06:59

CashingOut October 11, 2010 at 02:30
There’s a show more feminist than CSI? I would say that this I gotta see, but I can’t watch 3 minutes of CSI without becoming seriously pissed, ao I don’t think I could watch Mad Men.

This is off topic but, in crime dramas, you have noticed which sex plays the victim most often and which plays the criminal. This is one of many reasons why I go out of my way to avoid them. I guess I’m one of the lucky ones that never saw Mad Men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Gx1080 October 11, 2010 at 07:24

Gonna try something different (to see if my comment doesn’t get deleted this time):

Basically, I believe that women should tell right off to men the real reason why they are rejecting them (you aren’t dominant, and that you have to ask means that you will never be dominant to me), instead of screwed up manipulation.

Weirdly enough, a lot of women read this website. Really. I think that here go the women who believe themselves too classy to whore it up at Roissy’s.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
MRA October 11, 2010 at 07:43

The article is typical “third-wave” type trivial analysis of feminism from a feminist woman.

“Have we really got it all now? How do we balance out all these issues; oh such a conundrum. Were those feminists for the first wave right, or what about the second wave.”

Feminism is not being rejected in toto here, which is what needs to be done. Instead we are introduced to the familiar idea that there’s a “good feminism” and feminism can be “reformed” (as if this isn’t exactly where it always would have ended up: for it is the realization of feminism’s essential gynocentrist/masculinist spirit/intentions. Note that it doesn’t matter whether women or feminists announce this spirit/intention explicitly or not. It matters not whether they say (or said, back in the first wave) they wanted ill-defined “equality”. We’ll judge things by what the obvious fundamental values are; how things ultimately pan out.)

The article, typical of “post-third wave feminism” still has the focus on women and doesn’t really consider the interests and concerns of men. “Feminism is bad because it’s bad for women; but it needn’t be this way, because there are many feminism’s and it can be reformed so that women benefit better.”

That discourse is wrong and is based upon flawed and/or disingenuous and dishonest assumptions.

If men are discussed, there are very clearly delineated discourse boundaries; gynocentrism is not rejected; gynocentrism/the interests women of always trumps the interests of men.

The truth is that everywhere in the mainstream to the rarefied, women’s persectives/needs/experiences are focused upon, while men’s are intensified and ignored. The “post third wavers” of which Thag Jones is one actually pretends to be offering up something difference when they offer us their equivocal, half-hearted critiques of feminism. But they’re actually doing what feminism has been doing for generations: focusing on women and their needs, and marginalizing or ignoring men. Nothing’s changed here.

We do not need more “feminism is/some types of feminism are bad for women; how can we remedy this” discourse. That’s being done to death everywhere. Rather we need a discourse which is explicitly pro-male, and explicitly based upon the male perspective and experience. Which is unabashedly anti-feminist; which goes beyond the discourse boundaries that feminist women have established. (Discourse boundaries that prevent genuine, effective masculinist thought from being expressed. E.g. the discourse boundary that says you can’t reject feminism in toto, that it’s all basically the same. The discourse boundary that says you can’t focus on men’s specific interests as a sex; to the exclusion or marginalization of those of women (which are focused upon in the entirety of Western culture).)

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MRA October 11, 2010 at 07:44

Correction:

Feminism is not being rejected in toto here, which is what needs to be done. Instead we are introduced to the familiar idea that there’s a “good feminism” and feminism can be “reformed” (as if this isn’t exactly where it always would have ended up: for it is the realization of feminism’s essential gynocentrist/misandrist spirit/intentions.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
Alte October 11, 2010 at 07:47

That’s actually very good advice. Yes, women should tell men explicitly exactly what they’re doing “wrong”, rather than just expecting men to read their minds. I see that a lot actually, but if I point it out they insist that “he should just know”. Okay… but obviously he doesn’t know, so let’s deal with reality, honey.

Although a lot of women don’t seem to know themselves what they want, and will even insist upon the exact opposite of their actual desire. And a lot of women think telling him the truth will “hurt is feelings”, so they lie about it. I don’t think that’s doing him any favors, in the long run.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 7
intp October 11, 2010 at 07:47

Why do women go NUTS when a man makes a concerted effort to not look at them or acknowledge their existence?

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Anonymous October 11, 2010 at 08:14

Yes, women should tell men explicitly exactly what they’re doing “wrong”, rather than just expecting men to read their minds. I see that a lot actually, but if I point it out they insist that “he should just know”. Okay… but obviously he doesn’t know, so let’s deal with reality, honey.

I can only scoff because dealing with reality in regards to dating, attraction, and relationships is something that women are obviously incapable of doing in a rational, unemotional manner. They’re women, after all!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3
Keyster October 11, 2010 at 08:20

“…rather than just expecting men to read their minds. I see that a lot actually, but if I point it out they insist that “he should just know”.”

It creates drama and she gets to wallow in self-pity. Being more direct by simply telling him is giving him too much power. It ruins the whole concept of how he makes her suffer so. She needs to be mad and disgusted with him now and then, and she does this by expecting him to “just know”. It’s part of her “mysterious feminine allure”.

She doesn’t feel well today. Somebody must be blamed!

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Rebel October 11, 2010 at 08:42

There is an easy way out of this quagmire: simply reject any woman who displays any sign of the desease called feminism. It applies to almost 100% of the women here.

It is far better to live alone than get stuck with a bone in your throat.

Any man who still wants to marry and have kids is in a financial position to go and find a wife elesewhere, in a non man hating country or society.

That should not really be a big problem and is most certainly a better solution than trying to “redress” a feminist woman.

Does anybody here have a better solution?

I think not, for it there was, it would have been discovered long ago.

I think that endless discussions on the cultural devastation of Western women are counterproductive: they are too far gone and they are beyond redemption.
Too much time has been lost looking for answers.

Therefore, the only solution left is to find your treasure somewhere else. Is that too simple a solution?

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Herbal Essence October 11, 2010 at 08:42

Women cannot tell men what they actually want, because that would mean they had to take personal responsibility for something. The con artist that is woman must maintain the status of being an ever-shifting chimera of “empowered victimhood.” This con comes easily to the average woman, given that what she thinks she wants changes as quickly as pressing the buttons on a tv remote.
Make no mistake: no matter how miserable things get for 90% of women, they will blame men to their last breath. Or at least until her ovaries dry up. And yes, I know, NAWALT. But we’re talking about the average, not the outliers.

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Keyster October 11, 2010 at 09:33

Therefore, the only solution left is to find your treasure somewhere else. Is that too simple a solution?

That’s the brilliant thing about the male brain; we tend to be solution oriented. Every problem MUST HAVE a solution, and we passionately compete or work together to find it. But first we have to be able to acknowledge there’s a problem to begin with, and define it.

That’s the stage more young men are entering now. There’s a growing WTF! moment slowly gathering steam on the internet through blogs like this, game fundementals, etc. Never before has the female psyche been so subjectively analyzed and the information so broadly distributed…as a defensive reaction to feminism…or “know thy self, know thy enemy”.

For the first time men are questioning the relevance of women in their lives. Things like this don’t happen overnight, but it IS happening. We could only have been pushed so far before breaking. Brainwashed manginas will still marry and divorce and marry again, refusing to see the negative dynamic feminism created. But their numbers are diminishing, as men discover manhood again. Smart women are beginning to notice this change in attitude among men.

Just because you don’t read about it in the newspaper of see it on TV doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. A new meme is being established right now.

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Antigone Amplified October 11, 2010 at 09:38

“…it is still something worth bringing up and thinking about, because what we’re doing now is clearly not working”.

Thag, I like your conclusion’s emphasis on finding a better way forward for the next generation.

I take it that the title illustration here for “The modern woman’s self deception” was ironic, designed to appeal to the prevailing explicitly pro-male discourse here, and explicitly based upon same male perspective ?

Good article for both men and women to read, all the same.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8
Thag Jones October 11, 2010 at 09:39

“Feminism is bad because it’s bad for women; but it needn’t be this way, because there are many feminism’s and it can be reformed so that women benefit better.”

That’s what you got out of it? How are women supposed to be any good if they aren’t first at least honest with themselves? Isn’t a woman who isn’t full of self-deception good for a man? You guys are adjusting to the newish landscape and women have to do that too. Some of them like it how it is, some don’t. The ones that don’t still have to live with it and do their best to reject it while being surrounded by it and having absorbed it by growing up in that culture.

FWIW, I have never called myself a feminist; the things I’ve said on here would have me branded a lunatic by most people I know, which is partly why I don’t use my name (I do have to get along somewhat with the people around me). I’ve lost friends over less than this, believe me. To you, it might not sound like a hell of a lot, but not everyone is as far down this road as even I am and certainly won’t be won over by some of what I’ve read around some of the MRA sites. People usually change their views piecemeal, and for those of you who still have some hope or would like to win more women over, first women have to see how feminism is bad for them. Mostly people tend to work from a “what’s in it for me” point of view, even if it’s not explicitly stated, and most of you certainly make no bones about stating that women are solipsistic creatures, so how else will they be reached? If you want to obliterate feminism, you have to sell the alternative as beneficial to both men and women, and to do that, women have to see that the kind of “power” they have isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and that something is lost in there as well.

I think Troll King’s MRA 101 site is a good idea, in that vein and I do realize that probably anything I post here is going to be just that, stuff you’ve all seen before, preaching to the choir and so on. But new people do come along (like I did) and maybe I’m giving people too much credit here, but maybe they’ll learn something from it, like I did.

Anonymous Reader October 11, 2010 at 09:42

crella, what little I’ve seen of “Mad Men” is feminista propaganda bearing no resemblance to the actual time and place.

Gx1080, women won’t ever tell men why they are rejecting them because in most cases the women themselves won’t be able to articulate it, even to themselves.

* Women are as a general rule not particularly reflective. Don’t confuse all the modern navel-gazing with actually reflecting on ones own actions, motivations, etc. Sure, lots of men don’t do that, either, but so far as I can tell women just don’t think that way, even when they are worried that they might be losing their man they don’t think “What can I do to make this better?” but more like “What’s wrong with HIM”? So a woman who rejects a man is almost certainly acting from pattern-matching, finding him too beta or some such. Expecting them to articulate is expecting the rationalization hamster to take a break…

* Women are insecure about their looks, regardless of how beautiful, or homely they may be, and so actually admitting they didn’t find some man interesting or attractive maps in their minds to being told they are ugly, IMO.

+1 on all the comments regarding Thag’s article. This is another good step in understanding what’s wrong. We can’t fix this until we articulate what’s wrong, and how we got “here”.

PS: Interesting article on women’s sexual fluidity at
http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/10/female-erotic-plasticity-reading.html

Bottom line of the two papers: women will go along with their crowd on sexual issues, men much less so.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
Anonymous Reader October 11, 2010 at 09:46

Alte:
Although a lot of women don’t seem to know themselves what they want, and will even insist upon the exact opposite of their actual desire

See the paper referenced at Social Pathologist. It cites some survey done where the majority of high school girls polled supported remaining chaste, and a plurality of 45% were not chaste at all, having had sexual intercourse. Because women tend to follow opinion more, they are more likely to say stuff that is contrary to their actions.

Bottom line: watch what people do, not what they say, goes double for women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0
Thag Jones October 11, 2010 at 09:46

For that matter, how else are you going to win over the “manginas” and white knights? There seem to be plenty of them out there too, or at least those who haven’t fully incorporated feminism but are going along with the crowd wondering what exactly is the matter with the modern North American woman.

universe October 11, 2010 at 09:46

You judge him by superficial trivialities – big arms, big wallet, big voice, what a joke! I’m looking forward to the re-education of women by their imminent downfall…

-Hopefully, this re-education won’t mean overlooking the decades of hatreds multiplied by as many who proclaimed themselves as a feminist or supporters thereof. C & P’ed from another thread, here’s an extreme version of their orthodoxy:

“If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.” –Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

That was two thousand and one. Evidently, we haven’t learned from a similar example from the 1930s. At the very least Daly was up-front about her love for man kind. This form of radical has wedged itself in less radical terms as is evidenced today in family courts and other areas where the public mingling of both sexes occur. That is, toward a reduction in the legitimate participation of men, socially.

Borrowed again from another recent thread:

Said Steinem: “In the way that painters and artists become more valuable after they’re gone, I hope Mary will be kept alive by people going to her work.”

– Yes Gloria. I believe that both you and Mary Daly will come to be part of the collective awareness more and more into the future. Quotes such as these and countless more will become more usefull in rooting out the scapegoats for the feminist inspired determinants of social chaos.

Since women, I think, have better memories than do men, they shouldn’t be allowed to forget about this era of their (this time) overt reign upon western humanity. And the more aware men, while taking a break from their work, should pause to recall what occurs after feminist indulgence or leadership. The story of the Fall as described in Genesis was a much more polite way of conveying that message.

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Anonymous Reader October 11, 2010 at 09:49

intp
Why do women go NUTS when a man makes a concerted effort to not look at them or acknowledge their existence?

Because they are vain creatures who have been taught from birth that They Are Special, and by ignoring them said man is violating their Specialness. I believe Roissy refers to this as “silent game” or “one word game”, and it works in the right circumstances.

More young women should read Jane Austen…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Thag Jones October 11, 2010 at 09:55

I take it that the title illustration here for “The modern woman’s self deception” was ironic, designed to appeal to the prevailing explicitly pro-male discourse here, and explicitly based upon same male perspective ?

No, not ironic. Seems that a lot of what I say gets construed that way, but no, I just thought it was funny.

Reader October 11, 2010 at 09:59

Anonymous Reader,

Thank you for the link (at October 11, 2010 at 09:42). The information there explains a lot in a very clear and complete way.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
crella October 11, 2010 at 10:16

crella, what little I’ve seen of “Mad Men” is feminista propaganda bearing no resemblance to the actual time and place.

Good to know I’m not totally crazy :-D

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2
CashingOut October 11, 2010 at 11:03

All I have to say is: what Abject Man said.

This and the “Stop Looking for a Wife” article seem to look at the same problem from two seperate viewpoints. Marriage is falling apart because to a greate extent, women aren’t raised for it, and to a lesser extent, men aren’t taught how to properly handle a wife (and before anyone goes off at me about blaming men for this, read the part in “Stop Looking for a Wife” where the author basically says ‘most western men aren’t prepared to handle a wife any more than they are a horse’).

The problem is, you know what, I don’t give a shit anymore. I really don’t. When I look back upon my life, I can’t think of one encounter with or pursuit of a woman that was pleasurable, or nice, or rewarding in any way. Plus, I’m hitting my 30′s, middle age isn’t that far off. Unwanted 8 hr erections from looking at the cute cashier or receptionist or jogger just don’t happen anymore. This being the case, I’m finding that women, just aren’t worth it.

Maybe it’s just being here in the US, and maybe when I complete my expat plan, I will see better prospects where I go. But from my point of view, marriage is meaningles to me now. The only time I would have went for that “till death do us part” nonsense is when I was young and horny every five minutes. Now it just seems ridiculous to me. “Til death do us part? So you mean you’ll be with me every minute of every day, nagging me and complaining and bitching about how XYZ isn’t good enough and such? Getting uglier every year, while limiting my prospects of fucking other pretty women?”

Sorry, I can’t really go in for that. Not at this point. My head is clear enough to where I can see that women that I thought were pretty 10 years ago, aren’t all that pretty, they all shit, bitch, and moan, and there’s too many ways to go to jail dealing with a woman as opposed to not dealing with one. Plus I’ve seen how the marriage story ends for so many couples: fat ugly harridan wife who bitches about how marriage ruined her life, and some broken down old man who wishes he were dead. Yeah, I can’t really go for that either.

Zed has it right, I’ve been a bicycle without a fish for so long, I have to say my seat feels good with no slime on it. I can’t say I care to have a fish sit back on it, regardless of how much introspection they’ve done. Marriage just isn’t worth giving up my peace of mind for.

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zed October 11, 2010 at 11:06

For that matter, how else are you going to win over the “manginas” and white knights?

There is a distinct split in strategy among men who are concerned about the issues we discuss here. Some are still trying to “win over” and save the culture, while others of us are simply trying to survive it.

I think a session in family court or a false rape accusation will probably make a more compelling case to manginas and white knights that they are being idiots than I will ever be able to make.

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CashingOut October 11, 2010 at 11:32

@Robert

Oh with CSI that isn’t the tip of it. On CSI they will use any excuse to go into a feminist and outright anti-man rant (listen to Emily Proctor go on aboutn how PUA’s DESERVE TO DIE for picking up women), even if it makes no sense to the plot whatsoever.

In one episode of CSI (and the most disgusting one I can remember…I quit watching soon after this one), Catherine (shrew faced blonde) has to go investigate a fertility clinic for some reason or another. Well this fertility clinic does embryo adoptions: the idea being if a woman wants to have an abortion, as an alternative, this clinic will take the embryos in, free of charge (I can’t remember how they were being funded), and implant them in a woman who cannot concieve through normal means.

Well long story short, this big, 15 minute argument over abortion rights that has nothing to do with the plot breaks out, with the fertility clinic arguing that they’re just providing a voluntary service, and Catherine vehemently arguing that these embryo’s have no life, that the clinic is oppressing women, etc etc.

What made this argument so ridiculous to me (and you have to actually hear the argument to see how silly it is), is that you would think that abortion proponents, if they believe in “pro choice” should have NO problem with this whatsoever. If you view a fetus or embryo as having no life, then you shouldn’t have a problem with what anyone else does with it after you throw it away. Even if you’re going to argue that you shouldn’t be able to covertly take discarded bodily fluids for certain uses (cloning, impregnation, etc), it should be noted that the women gave these embryos up voluntarily. So a woman decides to get an abortion. On her way to the clinic, she sees these people, and decides to get her embryo sucked out and frozen for someone who wants the baby, instead of sucked out and thrown in the trash. Where’s the freakin problem here? No one’s “choices” were restricted, the woman got rid of her baby, and as an added bonus, a couple who couldn’t concieve on their own now has an opportunity to have a baby. You would think feminists everywhere would be THRILLED at this business.

But in that episode, CSI shows it’s feminist hand: it’s not about just letting the woman be free of the child; it’s about the right to kill said child themselves. It’s not enough that a partial “win/win” situation is found where the mother gets to be without child and the child gets a chance to gestate. If the mother isn’t allowed to kill her child, her rights are being violated.

Yeah, CSI is ridiculous like that.

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Anonymous Reader October 11, 2010 at 11:34

crella, you could still be totally crazy, I’d just be crazy in the same way….

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Herbal Essence October 11, 2010 at 11:54

On CSI, Mad Men, etc.-

I don’t watch TV anymore. I did watch the DVDs of the first season of Mad Men. I found it pretty predictable. Mainly I enjoyed the fashions and the interior design. I have no illusions in it’s fantastical version of the 60′s, but I think a couple of the men on there are pretty good models for Game. Obviously, though, a man would not want to do that stuff at work.

I tend to smell Feminist agenda in tv and movies like a bloodhound picking up a scent, and that’s frankly ruined tv and movies for me as a source of entertainment/information.

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Herbal Essence October 11, 2010 at 12:01

On the ever-shifting nature of female desires:

Lest anyone still deny this phenomenon, I point you to the song “B*tch” by Meredith Brooks. I have heard dozens of women hear this song, “OMG it’s so true” and online, it’s often portrayed as the #1 Feminist anthem of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M60cl7bKCMw&ob=av3e

Here’s the lyrics. It’s like a female Shit Test set to music-

I hate the world today
You’re so good to me
I know but I can’t change
Tried to tell you
But you look at me like maybe
I’m an angel underneath
Innocent and sweet
Yesterday I cried
Must have been relieved to see
The softer side
I can understand how you’d be so confused
I don’t envy you
I’m a little bit of everything
All rolled into one

[Chorus:]
I’m a bitch, I’m a lover
I’m a child, I’m a mother
I’m a sinner, I’m a saint
I do not feel ashamed
I’m your hell, I’m your dream
I’m nothing in between
You know you wouldn’t want it any other way

So take me as I am
This may mean
You’ll have to be a stronger man
Rest assured that
When I start to make you nervous
And I’m going to extremes
Tomorrow I will change
And today won’t mean a thing

[Chorus]

Just when you think, you got me figured out
The season’s already changing
I think it’s cool, you do what you do
And don’t try to save me

[Chorus]

I’m a bitch, I’m a tease
I’m a goddess on my knees
When you hurt, when you suffer
I’m your angel undercover
I’ve been numb, I’m revived
Can’t say I’m not alive
You know I wouldn’t want it any other way

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Thag Jones October 11, 2010 at 12:04

you would think that abortion proponents, if they believe in “pro choice” should have NO problem with this whatsoever. If you view a fetus or embryo as having no life, then you shouldn’t have a problem with what anyone else does with it after you throw it away. [...] it should be noted that the women gave these embryos up voluntarily. [...] No one’s “choices” were restricted, the woman got rid of her baby, and as an added bonus, a couple who couldn’t concieve on their own now has an opportunity to have a baby. You would think feminists everywhere would be THRILLED at this business.

Obviously it would violate the whole idea that the embryo/fetus is “not human/ not a baby” and therefore easily disposed of, guilt free. It’s not about actual choice – that’s why they get so upset at this sort of alternative. They want to be free to slag around without guilty consequences or having to raise a child because of their own actions. In other words, they don’t want to have to be responsible for their own actions and to be able to do whatever they feel like doing at any given time. That’s what feminism is all about.

Keyster October 11, 2010 at 12:10

Once a show becomes popular the social messaging starts to meander through the plot lines. The same thing happened to Law and Order. We call it “feminist propaganda”. The Hollywood elites call it writing.

All that really matters is ratings and how much Vagisil the sponsors can sell.

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crella October 11, 2010 at 12:21

I tend to smell Feminist agenda in tv and movies like a bloodhound picking up a scent, and that’s frankly ruined tv and movies for me as a source of entertainment/information.

I hear you. God help me, I go to see my mother and she has Lifetime or Dr. Phil or Oprah on and it makes me want to tear down the curtains, or tip over the fridge or….or….(splutters incoherently :-D )

Movies are so over-the-top ridiculous lately. You used to be able to see a decent movie if you just avoided chick flicks, but no more, every genre is infected with ‘you go grrrrl-itis’.

CSI is pretty horrible. It finally came to Japan and after all the hubbub I decided to watch a few episodes….oh, the man-bashing. I actually saw that episode, Cashing out, it was one big ‘Huh!?’. And, after all the feminist bleating about how women are victims in US culture,about how efforts are needed to right wrongs against women I find it seriously offensive when men are told time and time again to ‘man up’ and ‘suck it up’ when something awful happens to them on one of these shows. The frequent references to men ‘deserving’ prison rape on many shows is also disgusting. The TV is a sewer of feminist brainwashing.

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crella October 11, 2010 at 12:22

Well then, Anonymous, let’s just resolve to be cheerfully crazy together :-D Suits me fine…

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Herbal Essence October 11, 2010 at 12:30

crella-”Movies are so over-the-top ridiculous lately. You used to be able to see a decent movie if you just avoided chick flicks, but no more, every genre is infected with ‘you go grrrrl-itis’.”

Yes. It turns up in places where it doesn’t even belong. It’s like, glaring. For instance the movie “Kick-Ass,” which was decently pro-male overall, still sported a hopeless white-knight mangina as the main character. He has to nearly get himself killed just to get some play from some stupid homely chick, and he acts grateful for it.

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Clydesdale October 11, 2010 at 13:13

@ CashingOut

“Oh with CSI that isn’t the tip of it. On CSI they will use any excuse to go into a feminist and outright anti-man rant (listen to Emily Proctor go on aboutn how PUA’s DESERVE TO DIE for picking up women), even if it makes no sense to the plot whatsoever.

In one episode of CSI (and the most disgusting one I can remember…I quit watching soon after this one), Catherine (shrew faced blonde) has to go investigate a fertility clinic for some reason or another…”

I miss the good old days, when there were shows like “Charlie’s Angels” where a typical plot might be, “The Angels have to go undercover at a beauty pageant to investigate irregularities in the swim suit fitting process.”

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RCG October 11, 2010 at 13:42

Greek philosophy is wrong. No matter what angle you approach it from, you always find a huge, gaping flaw. Don’t get me wrong, they had a lot of good ideas, but their viewpoint was extremely limited.

The relevant part of Greek philosophy to this article is the idea of the separation between “the flesh” and “the mind.” The Greeks (I believe Plato was the biggest proponent) were correct in noting that humans are, fundamentally and at their very core, completely immoral and incapable of achieving harmony with each other. However, they were incorrect in believing that there is a redeemable part of the human, called “the spirit” or “the mind,” which can transcend the human’s instincts and perceive “perfect truth.” The truth is that there is no separation between “the flesh” and “the mind,” and there is no “perfect truth,” either. Humans are animals, and their animal drives will always be with them. There will be no transcendence for us.

For those who still cling to the antiquated notions of human decency, I offer the Soviet Union as a counterexample. One of the philosophies that went into the founding of the Soviet Union was that people are inherently good, and that people do bad because they are uneducated and incapable of seeing the consequences of their actions. One of the most important goals of the Soviet Union was to educate the people so that they would be able to see the consequences of their actions and become good as a result. Their public education system was probably one of the best in the world as a result. This is why there are so many well-educated scholars and professionals from the former Soviet Union today. After Communism fell and Big Brother ran out of money, the people (by then having had 1-2 generations of good education) did not do good, but instead turned to crime. This created the clusterfuck that Russia is still trying to deal with today.

The article is written based on the idea that the separation between “the flesh” and “the mind” is in effect. Lines like “it is reasonable to expect, in a contracted relationship, that each partner stay faithful to one another” and “The lack of ability to face reality in this culture is astounding really and I simply look on with bemused wonder at it all. When will we grow up? ” completely discount the instinctual drives that are at the very core of the subject of the article.

I believe that the author, much like the Greeks, thinks that women can be redeemed, that they can recognize their limitations and move past them to become something more than mere women. Even the greatest spiritual leaders in history have dedicated their lives to causes like this and failed to achieve their goals. I do not think this idea is workable.

All of that being said, I do believe that there are solutions to the problem raised by the article. They will just not come about by thinking in the ways presented thus far.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 13
Paradoxotaur October 11, 2010 at 15:57

I haven’t seen Mad Men, but the impression I get is that its portrayal of the 60′s is about as accurate at The Jetsons’ portrayal of the future.

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Anonymous October 11, 2010 at 19:53

We’re all missing the point i think- TV itself is a woman’s medium. Its all about evoking emotion for advertising effect.

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trent13 October 11, 2010 at 20:08

Alte, how can I contact you (via internet), I have some questions to ask you, if you don’t mind.

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whiskeytangofoxtrot October 11, 2010 at 20:10

RCG

I don’t know how deeply rooted in Greek philosophy it is, but I agree that this article is indicative of the dualism – the idea of a spirit or soul that is separate from the body – that is the basis of much “socially progressive” ideas and inclinations.

Its kind of a secular religion. It’s A belief that we can perfect ourselves through being “good”, through self-help, or through the exorcism of some confused guilt. In particular, efforts at approaching sexuality objectively are rife with delusions of the malleability of human nature.

She asks when we are going to “grow up”, and I answer “never”.

We prattle on about finding fulfillment and happiness, but the human mind isn’t designed to feel fulfilled or happy for extended periods of time. The healthiest among us feel much more of it and can fake it consistently, but we arent designed to always feel content and relaxed.

It’s a fantasy to believe that some socially engineered living arrangement, or anything else short of re-wiring our brains, will lead us to uniformly “happy”, nonviolent, or even “sustainable”, societies.

We swim in a sea of self-deception when it comes to the big issues…

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Kathy October 11, 2010 at 22:29

Just in case Alte misses your request, Trent13, here is a link to her website.

https://sites.google.com/site/complementarianmarriage/

She has an email address there, so that you can contact her.

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Thag Jones October 12, 2010 at 06:47

Hmm, I see what you guys mean about the body and mind separation there.

We prattle on about finding fulfillment and happiness, but the human mind isn’t designed to feel fulfilled or happy for extended periods of time. The healthiest among us feel much more of it and can fake it consistently, but we arent designed to always feel content and relaxed.

Very true. This is what you get in the secular culture I suppose, a load of self-help fluff that makes some people a load of money but doesn’t really do anything. I just wonder what the answer is – probably it’s a Puritan work ethic or something like that. At least we’d have less time for all the delusions and dissatisfaction.

trent13 October 12, 2010 at 18:54

Thanks Kathy

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Laura October 13, 2010 at 12:05

Crella,
I agree with you about Mad Men, it stereotypes too much. Don Draper is hot, though.

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ActaNonVerba October 14, 2010 at 04:15

I’ve never cared much for all the “game” talk and categorizations–alpha, beta, whatever. I am of the opinion that nature is a tyrant. Nature wants competition and procreation at all costs. I believe that concepts such as honor, fairness, and justice are anti-nature. They are manifestations of human beings trying to evolve, to become more than what we are, to become more than just beasts. So, in this sense, I support defying nature. I want to be what I believe is right to be. If women wish to come along for the ride, fine. If not, I’d rather live by my principles.

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trent13 October 14, 2010 at 06:45

I am of the opinion that nature is a tyrant. Nature wants competition and procreation at all costs. I believe that concepts such as honor, fairness, and justice are anti-nature. They are manifestations of human beings trying to evolve, to become more than what we are, to become more than just beasts. So, in this sense, I support defying nature.

I just started reading Pieper’s Leisure the Basis of Culture – it’s an interesting contrast to your exact supposition that nature is a tyrant.

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Frank Azzurro October 14, 2010 at 10:12

I’m married to someone that I do feel is my soul mate, so these passages especially spoke to me:

I also am not saying nice betas are doomed – it’s a matter, I think, of women being more honest with themselves (at which I can already hear some of you scoffing) in order that they might make better decisions based on the desire for long term stability. It’s not like men don’t do this; do you really think they never get an urge to stray and find some novelty?

and

It’s hard to get over the romantic desire for an all-encompassing relationship, in which two people are like “soul mates” for whom there is no other – and maybe it’s futile to try – but that can only go so far, and there is always an element of choosing to make a person into one’s animus/anima. The shine always wears off after the initial bonding stage of a relationship, and that’s where a certain amount of work is needed. Not spirit crushing, constant dissection and discussion, but just some effort, which might just be the effort it takes to be quiet and non-judgemental, to just enjoy each other’s presence in silence.

We have gone through a few ups and downs here or there, but both of us are relatively free from these silly societal concerns about “feminism” (which is just a directed form of “individual entitlement”). The two of us know that we’ve found something increasingly rare in the modern world and realize that we each have roles to fill. There’s always work needed to maintain a great relationship, but when your starting point is already disabused of the notion that “Men are like X, women are like Y’, it makes it that much easier.

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Paige October 14, 2010 at 15:14

I married my high school sweetheart a long time ago and I’ve been faithful. However, I’m a super hot female who could get most any man I would ever want. Size 2 ass, huge tits. Personally, I don’t give a damn what other women think of any particular man, I pick the one I like and that’s it. What other women think of him is irrelevant. What’s the point of this article? I can’t see that it even has one at all. The cartoon above the article is ugly and trashy. We’re not ALL a herd of cows. I understand your typical young woman today is lazy, drinks, eats pills, steals, fools around, has a nice set of jelly rolls around her waist, etc…. Those women may be worried about the BS you’re speaking of, they’re the lame females. But what you need to know is that we’re not all fat, weak females that are at any man’s mercy. We don’t all make choices based on what other women think or desire. I think many women are idiots but some of us know what we want and know how to get it if we decide that’s what we’re going to do, we’re the Alpha Females. I would be surprised if even one person writing any of the articles on this web site is happily married now or ever will be. I also doubt any of you have ever been with an Alpha Female. Alpha Females don’t play this BS. The problem with most marriages today is that most people are fickle, they throw in the towel and file for divorce too fast. They get all pissy and show their ass by moving out or fooling around … severe shortage of allegiance. They are insincere; not loyal or reliable. No one wants to be married to anyone like that no matter how sexy they are to the neighbor. I don’t care if the skank at the store is attracted to my husband, who cares, that doesn’t change anything for me. Many women today are “The Neighborhood Bicycle” – everybody’s had a ride. Those women will never be taken seriously and I don’t care if they think my husband is hot or not. They’re DUDS no matter how you look at it, they’re opinion of my man is last on my list of important things.

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Daniel Martínez October 16, 2010 at 22:36

I would like to ask for permission to translate this great article into spanish and to publish it in my blog. I will be waiting for your reply.

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Robert the Wise October 17, 2010 at 10:45

Paige = NAWALT

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Thag Jones October 17, 2010 at 16:51

Daniel Martinez, sure, why not. Could you link it back to my blog if you do? Let me know when it’s up.

Ivo Vos October 19, 2010 at 05:06

I don’t know if the double-bind part is basically what might be called a measurement problem. How do women measure the attractiveness of men ? I mean, for men it is supposedly rather straight forward, although in real life it is usually a little bit more complicated. But, unlike for men, the measurement for women is heavily based on relative comparing. The list of desirable traits for men has only limited value for a certain period of time and in a certain environment. A desirable trait in a men in one situation might be undesirable in another situation. More over, it always has been kind of tricky to establish a personal trait on the basis of outside appearances. So, in practice, finding out about the attractiveness of men relies on the emotional evaluation of a sample of other women who are supposed to give enough support or rejection of the idea that a certain man might be a good mate. Emotional evaluation is in most cases the interpretation of emotions known as feelings, so women will like to ‘share their feelings’. And they are trained to do so throughout lifetime. We might call it relative emotional comparing of the actual situation at hand and it produces a whole bunch of instant morality, ideas of what is supposedly good or bad given the possible interpretation of the situation at hand. It certainly does not produce one logical, Newtonian like view of the world. It produces a patchwork of relative moralities which seem to conflict only at the logical level of a single, unified logically moral view of the world. It is also another example of why the proclaimed unified moral theory of feminists is completely and utterly impossible. It is not possible to create a unifying moral theory that is at the same time based on the absolute importance of the self above others and on the relative emotional evaluations of others. It would be like saying that every women will have equal rights to Brad Pitt next time he’s going to strip before a thousand aroused ladies at the next local ladies night. It will not work. There cannot be a personal is the political, as we witness on a daily basis.
Back to the stated ‘double bind’, one solution might be to let your environment decide what will be the ideal husband, no matter what you yourself might think about it. Over the centuries and up to today, that has been common practice in human history. Not so much in today’s Western culture based on Calvinist’s ethics and the importance of the individual. There is a personal measurement problem.
So I suppose that the double bind is actually the probable correct interpretation of your own emotions that you, like it or not, will have to rely on the emotional interpretation of other women. Your mother is not going to decide for you, although she may like to do so. You are on your own, just like you wanted. Also, once the measurement is reliable enough, the same emotion will steer you to control the established outcome of the measurement. For yourself. Enjoy your freedom.

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crella October 19, 2010 at 16:21

I’m a super hot female who could get most any man I would ever want. Size 2 ass, huge tits.

Talk about ‘ugly and trashy’…….interesting that that’s all you have to say about yourself, but I guess your writing style already says enough about your character.

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Marvin October 28, 2010 at 18:59

Excellent post. Society teaches both women and men to interpret sexual attraction as “love,” when it’s not. When women buy into that, they consistently pick poor mates, who are “hot” but unreliable. Many women don’t figure out that their criteria for choosing a mate is flawed until they’re in their 40s or 50s. This means that Beta males have to select for older women who have already learned their lessons. I did. (My wife is 15 years older, having gotten all her mistakes made already.) It’s worked wonderfully, looking back after ten years together. Our relationship is based on intellect and emotion, not sex, and it’s much stronger for it.

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crypter27 June 18, 2013 at 10:11

When I was in my 20′s I never got any play,now that I’m my 30′s I’m dating 20 yr old girls.

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