Shrugging Misandry

by Paul Elam on September 25, 2010

By Paul Elam of A Voice for Men

The menís movement has long carried with it a strong undercurrent of frustration. We lack organization, have made all but inconsequential progress on the political and legal fronts, and remain on the outside of an impenetrable wall around the mainstream media. Countless times the ambitions of MRAís start up in a flash and falter as just as quickly. Uncle Zed himself has dubbed our tendency to undermine any emergent leaders, and each other, as The Circular Firing Squad.

In other words, we are doing just fine, thank you very much.

The negatives are real, but letís put a little perspective on this. First, it is critically important to consider that any movement a mere 40 or 50 years old is in its infancy. For women, it was 72 years between Seneca Falls and the 19th amendment; almost 50 years after that before mainstream feminism took hold, and still another 25 or so years before gender activists really started getting the power to destroy families and generally fuck up everything else they touched. That is roughly 150 years from inception to the resultant destruction.

And that was in a culture where base biology drives men to throw each other under the bus in order to open doors for women- and drives women to feel entitled to that kind of paid-for-in-blood privilege.

Following the feminist example is thus an ineffectual and agonizingly slow road for men. Feminists were able to whine their way into de facto governance by the same forces that quash menís grievances faster than they can be stated.

It all boils down to two simple but insurmountable equations.

Womenís whining = pursuit of justice. Menís pursuit of justice = whining.

Trying to reason with or educate people in a culture where this mindset is biologically rooted is absolutely foolish. The people we would engage view all forms of support for men like they were dirty hypodermic needles scattered across a schoolyard playground.

Allow me to expand on this.

I recently read an article on a feminist website, Sociological Images, authored by a couple of female Ph. Dís, in which one of the comments named yours truly as an MRA who wrote about menís superiority over women, and yet another person who commented said they visited A Voice for Men and found a lot of whining going on here.

Par for the course, right?

But letís just run a short comparison to further demonstrate what I am talking about.

Recently on A Voice for Men, we have engaged in the standard discussions that relate to men in modern culture: A police state that arrests and incarcerates male victims of domestic violence and enables female perpetrators to continue criminal behavior; a ten to one death gap concerning capital punishment that works against men; a five to one death gap against men related to suicide; the staggering attrition of males in higher education and employment; the utter lack of reproductive rights for men, and the incidence of false rape allegations against men which even the police are calling epidemic.

And that is just the past two weeks.

On the other hand, the article from which the comments I cited at Sociological Images was about:

Rulers.

No, not heads of state. Measuring sticks. The kind that sell for $1.19 in your grocery store. It seems the fembots in question found a line of rulers commemorating great scientists of history, and a woman scientist, Marie Curie, had her own ruler under the heading of ďGreat Women Rulers of Science.Ē

Thatís the horrific injustice that pissed off the author.

Her problem was (or at least appeared to be) that the women were separated from the men, giving us a default position of men as human and women as, uh, something else. Perhaps something less.

But wait a second. For half a century feminists have shrieked and bellowed and raged to get us to recognize women; often insisting we deluge them with pomp and ceremony, even over some of their more mediocre accomplishments. And letís face it, even after 50 years of efforts for inclusion and assisted access for women into all realms of modern life, mediocre accomplishments are as good as it gets.

Still, when it comes to their demand for recognition, earned or otherwise, we have surrendered our reason (see: psychobiology) and complied. But now, even acting out of that acquiescence, and giving Marie Curie her own 12 inches of fame, this is somehow an affront. We have insulted all women, relegating them to subhuman status, by lauding their accomplishments in the ďwrongĒ way.

And we are the whiners?

And that is really the point here. These educated idiots arenít some isolated group of imbeciles. Well, they arenít isolated, anyway. They are not operating outside of mainstream consciousness. They are mainstream consciousness. The sooner we get a firm and comprehensive grip on that, the better.

The current mentality toward men mirrors that toward blacks in the antebellum south. And no, I am not comparing the struggles of modern men to black slaves. Not at all. I am, however, most certainly comparing the mentality of modern women to that of slave owners, complete with manginas and white knights aplenty to serve as their house niggers.

They practice the same level of denial and entitlement that was needed to maintain justification for slavery. No amount of moral outrage will affect them; no amount of suffering (except their own) will reach their hearts.

And no amount of reason will produce anything more than the blank, uncomprehending stare of a cow seeing its own reflection in a pond.

With all respect to Glenn Sacks, just what does anyone really think he is going to accomplish in terms of popularizing our agenda in this kind of moral and intellectual void?

And thereís the rub. Where reason and dialog fail; where activism as we understand the word is a non starter, then responding with more of the same is as stupid as finding a sinister, sexist plot in the school supplies section at your grocery store. The more sensible route to go is withdrawal and intentional neglect.

Or, as Ayn Rand would advise, shrug it.

Shrug it all- the whole nasty, filthy rotten enchilada.

And itís already happening. It does not require leadership or organization. You donít need to donate money to it or try to get it on the ballot in your local elections. Men are now shrugging marriage, and for every one that does it will mean another man the state will not be enslaving through the family courts. And it will mean that many more children will not be ripped to shreds as sacrificial fodder to the system.

Men are also starting to shrug partisan politics, chivalry, nationalism, consumerism and the mainstream media; all the slow acting toxins that have landed men in the position of needing a movement in the first place.

And it will continue happening because that is the nature of social physics. There is a pendulum swing in effect here, and it is happening in total indifference to feminists, mainstream media, and yes, to the menís movement as well.

In short, we arenít causing anything here. We are just giving it a name, a voice and a language.

We chronicle what is happening; document it, and perhaps in our own way urge some men to reconsider what the fuck has been happening in their lives. But for the most part, I think that many men, when they stumble on our literature, arenít convinced by it, nor do they need any such persuasion. They just find something that finally puts some pieces together for them; something that articulates the unnamed knot that has been twisting in their guts for a while.

That is why I donít give advice, donít see myself as a leader, and donít want to.

Men donít need advice or guidance near as much as they need information. And if there is anything that most of them actually need to learn, it is that the only real leadership is in the mirror. Our agenda is defined by our own choices and actions. Our ďcauseĒ is our own life, on our own terms.

Most any man can still reasonably secure his freedom and well being with a simple (if not always easy) decision to shrug everything that gets in the way, and to be prepared to build and maintain his own life raft, instead of waiting for the government, feminists, or some supposed MRA leader to do it for him.

Our problem, if we actually even have one, is that there are a lot of MRAís who still have a hard time comprehending this. They are waiting for someone else to point the way. Or maybe for an instruction manual on how to act like a vertebrate. But give them time. They will change or end up settling for life on their knees, begging for scraps of shopworn pussy and pretending that they are still in Kansas.

I suppose it is obligatory that I state the obvious and say this is just my opinion, and that I maintain full support for the handful of activists that are trying desperately to chip away at the social and legislative machine that is hell bent on destroying men. But I also think it is pretty obvious that we spend too much time wringing our hands over a lack of progress as measured against feminist strategy.

Ironically, my greatest personal inspiration came from the mouth of a feminist icon. To be specific, from Marilyn French, who penned the following:

My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I donít even need to shrug. I simply donít care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearning were, simply donít matter.

It was easy for French to make such a statement, because no matter how much she disdained men, she still lived her entire life benefiting from their sacrifices; an ingrate on the tit, she stopped suckling only long enough to complain about the free meal. It was her beta husband who put her through school, and of course she divorced him once he paid for her ďindependence,Ē and made himself expendable. And this is precisely the direction a growing number of men are going, only with one very distinct difference.

We donít need women. Men donít die, or even get sick without them. There is no RDA for pussy. And as more men start to figure out that being on your knees is the wrong position to be in to receive a blowjob, they will also start learning to get themselves out of harms way, and to assume authority over their own lives.

As I have said before, women are the modern shiv that the government uses to stab men in the back. No one needs leadership to recognize that and act accordingly. All they need is a little common sense, and a good measure of the very uncommon sense that comes with being able to imagine yourself outside the role that has been prescribed for you.

If you are reading this, you likely are one of the lucky ones who have that kind of good sense. Enjoy your own rareness, and enjoy watching what happens when the time comes that men like you are not so rare.

Most men just canĎt do it. Fine by me, let Ďem rot. They sure as hell wonĎt hesitate to walk past your stinking carcass. They have the information at their disposal 24/7 to point to a different path than that of the mangina or white knight. And the more of us that Go Our Own Way, the higher the price those unfortunates that just canít ďget itĒ will have to pay, and the more appealing our way of thinking will become.

Relative freedom is just a few short decisions away. All you have to do is choose it.

{ 95 comments… read them below or add one }

electricangel September 25, 2010 at 09:42

Paul captures here the spirit of Etienne de la Boetie, who wondered on how the state could survive, how one man could rule so many others. He decided that it was with the tacit consent of the ruled that the state survived. If those subject to the state would withdraw their consent, it would collapse.

Feminism, like socialism, is a matter of eating the seed corn of a society. You can throw quite a party, but eventually the resources run out. To defeat feminism and the state, the WORST tactic you can take is active opposition: they know how to send their legions to crush active opposition. Passive withdrawal of consent, and providing no easily exploitable assets to support your opponents, is the only sure way to make it collapse. At 41% out-of-wedlock births in the USA last year, that collapse is very close.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 50 Thumb down 0
Eric September 25, 2010 at 09:42

This may have been the best MRM article I’ve ever read.
Bravo, Mr. Elam

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 53 Thumb down 3
Rebel September 25, 2010 at 09:48

I only wish I could have said it as well as you did.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 3
Snark September 25, 2010 at 09:53

This may have been the best MRM article Iíve ever read.
Bravo, Mr. Elam

I agree. Paul is a fantastic writer. And this is one of his best pieces, and one of the best MRM pieces, by far.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 3
Anti Idiocy September 25, 2010 at 10:09

MGTOW is it. A man who acts on this principle has freed himself to a large extent, though there’s no complete escaping the law. (Think of a taxi driver who’s falsely accused of sexual assault, because his fare doesn’t feel like paying.) As for the men who aren’t going more and more MGTOW, I feel more and more by the day that they can rot. Some of them will dodge the bullets and benefit from being white knights, some will be crushed by the system that they foolishly support. Their game; their problem if it crushes them.

If the men’s movement never amounts to anything as a movement, those who go MGTOW can still live fine lives.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 42 Thumb down 3
Jesse September 25, 2010 at 10:12

If I may make an observation. I have many male friends with IQ’s around 140 and all of us to a man have eschewed becoming fathers because it just didn’t seem like an intelligent path to take. Signing a contract that burdens one with responsibilities while stripping one of rights is not an intelligent choice. Men of low intelligence however seem to sign the contract again and again.
In Australia the government now pays a $5000 “baby bonus” as a bribe to get women to breed. It has increased the birth rate but where are these new babies coming from? You guessed it, half-witted single mothers and junkies who actually think $5000 is a lot of money in comparison to the cost of having a child. As men here have no right to order a paternity test the woman simply finds a man stupid enough to have unprotected sex and uses him as a sperm bank with a wallet. Whichever one has the most money gets to carry the bag.
Idiocracy is not a comedy, it is an accurate portrayal of reality.
I am 47 and have been single for the last 6 years. It has been the most fruitful and drama free period of my entire life – and I haven’t even signed up for the fatherhood trap. I make less money than ever before but seem to have far more disposable income. If one doesn’t have a bitch hanging off you you don’t actually need much money at all.
Intelligent men do seem to be waking up but let’s face it, half of the population have an IQ less than 100 by definition and 100 is pretty thick. I think it will be a long time before the masses learn that rising above one’s rutting instincts is their best option and even then very few will be able to actually do it. Passive withdrawal is a nice idea but I can’t see it becoming widespread enough to actually affect change, especially as the pool of intelligent men withers and dies through not passing on their genes due to passive withdrawal itself.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 73 Thumb down 2
Coastal September 25, 2010 at 10:37

It’s a great article, and it hits on a point discussed previously, that victory for the MRM is unlikely to arrive in the form of a ‘storming of the Bastille’ moment. Feminism will neither die with a bang or a whimper, it’ll die with outrageous demands and unhinged shrieks, but there’ll be no men around to hear it.

There’s just one thing that I disagree with and that’s the Lennonesque undercurrent that MGTOW means necessarily buying into a nihlistic agenda.

Some of us can imagine quite a few possessions actually. It’s just we can also imagine our wife disappearring with them on a quest to ‘find herself’. Or to put it more formerly, you could just as easily argue that idealism, and a belief that there are things worth fighting for, is an equally valid MRA position, since only by seeing what man could achieve can we judge how utterly feminism has destroyed society.

Hey, even Ayn Rand doesn’t have her strikers sit around all day. Instead, they escape to an idealised micro-society at Galt’s Gulch, complete with their own businesses and a solid gold dollar sign in the town square.

To the point, I can’t help feeling one thing hobbling the MRM is the amount of baggage that keeps getting attached to it, in terms of folks arguing that opposing feminism necessarily means, say, abandoning partiotism, or buying in to conspiray theories, or A N Other idea.

Hey, I’m not saying that there’s anything necessarily wrong with MRMs claiming that the Freemasons are running the world, just that there is something wrong with trying to imply that anyone who doesn’t fear the funny handshake brigade is clearly a chump and a mangina.

Feminism is a sufficiently disasterous ideology, and a sufficiently evil one, that men from across the spectrum can and should oppose it. As long as our taxes are being used to support bloated women’s studies departments and vindictive DV prosecutions, we can adjorn the question of what to do about fiat money until after the war is won.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 5
Curiepoint September 25, 2010 at 10:40

Society gets exactly the quality of people it deserves to have. If intelligent men, by refusing to offer up it’s DNA is dooming future society to mediocrity and even sub-par standards, it will not be because intelligent men are selfish and unconcerned. It will be a matter of what society has asked for. Call it justice or karma or tough luck, the end result is going to be a society of lunk-heads. We are already there, because education really means indoctrination into the cult of tolerance.

Granted, there are a lot of intelligent women out there who will be able to pass on their DNA and perhaps keep the level of intelligence from dropping too far below the population mean, but it will not be able to sustain it. Half of the gene pool will have exempted itself, and given that women have a propensity to choose amongst the lowest vermin of society to spawn with, all they will be able to breed will be more clever criminals.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 2
Albert September 25, 2010 at 11:05

In short, we arenít causing anything here. We are just giving it a name, a voice and a language.

We chronicle what is happening; document it, and perhaps in our own way urge some men to reconsider what the fuck has been happening in their lives. But for the most part, I think that many men, when they stumble on our literature, arenít convinced by it, nor do they need any such persuasion. They just find something that finally puts some pieces together for them; something that articulates the unnamed knot that has been twisting in their guts for a while.

Really put into words my toughts on this a well. However I think spreading information and formulation ideas is the kernel of the MRA movement, the core of the struggle so to speak. Before I found the MGTOW and MRA movements I still had alot of these ideas but they where far from integrated into a appliable worldview. There is definitely a great need for these movements even if they are nothing more than men having a discussion about these things.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 1
CM September 25, 2010 at 11:21

No it’s not necessary that we have a leader. In fact if we had one it may be worse for us. Like Napster VS Bitorrent. Bitorrent is superior because nobody can stop it. I think most people like Paul said don’t need a mens movement for their own sense of self worth against a fascist materialistic male-hating-lesbian society. But it’s good that we keep trying to make this information available to all – because society needs it desperately. The justice system needs it and the common folk need it. We are already leaders. And some of them are following now – but most are maintained in the matrix of infantilization and emasculation. Unless someone has a personal reason to look into the Gender War, they will mostly avoid it – and who can blame them?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1
Beltain September 25, 2010 at 11:32

Leaders will emerge.

The beast is eating itself away as we speak. The high male unemployment means women are now actually feeding on themselves as a whole more. Either the system will collapse from lack of males to oppress or the system will keep pushing harder until the general male population snaps.

When that happens they will remember those of us who have been pointing the unbalanced system out and then real change will begin. All we have to do is keep withdrawing and watching for that part of the leadership and movement to develop.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 1
Ragnar September 25, 2010 at 11:46

Thanks for a very great article Paul Elam.

The MM is simply a number of men claiming their identity as men and setting standards for interaction with others.

Shrugging off a bad society will have effect as many men start to do it. Allow me to link to the MGTOW-manifesto there may be some out there who hasn’t read it yet.
We can furthermore bring a little hope for the future in the Vow of Brotherhood .

Being real men we do not need to take any such vow in public, we do not need witnesses to verify anything. We can do it alone in our solitude in front of the screen and add to the hope that we as men can bring about the necessary change.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 1
Malestrom September 25, 2010 at 11:58

I agree with you totally on this paul, I’ve said similar things many times. Feminism just has way too much unconscious, hindbrain force behind it, there are a lot of social processes like this, when empires are collapsing there are always a few people shouting on the sidelines that everything is going to hell, but it never works, because the forces leading to the collapse are unconscious and deeply rooted in too much of the population, they’ll never be convinced away from them with logic or reason.

At the end of the day, if feminism is as disfunctional as we all say (and it most definately is) it can’t last. It will be market forces, the individually insignificant analysis of risk vs reward and the corresponding behaviour taken by millions of men is what will finish it off. Like socialists meddleing in the market, feminists made the classic leftist mistake of assuming behaviours as immutable, of failing to anticipate changes in how people act when confronted with a new set of circumstances.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 1
Walter September 25, 2010 at 11:59

The best thing to do regarding AW which to me is the same a feminism is don’t get in the ring and you won’t get knocked around. How do you avoid alimony? Easy, DONT GET MARRIED!! How can I avoid a costly divorce? Don’t get married. Every AW, feminist, attorney and every court system is completly powerless if you don’t play the game(getting married). For every man that refuses to get married there is a woman who does not have a husband to feed off of, divorce, collect child support, alimony, or make miserable. There Is nothing any broad can do about it because nobody can make you participate.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 47 Thumb down 1
Lord Viktor September 25, 2010 at 12:06

Good article, but you’re wrong.

COMPLETE withdrawal is not the answer.

If we were all to suddenly say, “Fuck it!” and disappear, who is going to be there to warn our young men?

You see, MGTOW is the result of becoming free, but for a man to break free, he must realize he is in chains to begin with. If we all just abscond and retreat into our own little MGTOW paradise, we will merely die out and leave no legacy for the next generation of men to follow, leaving them to be sacrificed on the alter of the Queen Goddess, just a nameless rabble of emasculated goats for whose deaths no female shall ever mourn.

I know this whole this is very frustrating and agonizing, but that is because we are channeling our righteous anger in the wrong direction. We need to put out efforts into rescuing males, not converting females.

Look, you want to stop driving yourselves mad? Then talk to the men and the boys! Make book and videos that warn our young boys what awaits them. Channel your efforts to re-ball the emasculated Beta males instead of laughing at them for not having enough Game.

Hell, you can even try to save the white knights and manginas if you are so inclined. I know some of them can be saved because I was one of them!

My point is, as easy as it may be to simply DISAPPEAR and leave everyone to rot in hell, that is only the path of least resistance. And the instant we choose that route, that is the day the feminists will win. Because without our influence, the girls will just move right in and easily convince our young boys that THEY are the source of all that is evil in the world and then, we will all be undone.

Is that what you want? I hope not.

Go your own way, but don’t disappear. Fight the good fight, but don’t waste your ammunition on the brainwashed feminazi skank that is today’s Modern Woman. If you know any women on our side, let THEM fight that battle, women only listen to each other anyway!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 45 Thumb down 2
evilwhitemalempire September 25, 2010 at 12:21

@Jesse

Passive withdrawal is a nice idea but I canít see it becoming widespread enough to actually affect change, especially as the pool of intelligent men withers and dies through not passing on their genes due to passive withdrawal itself.

The upshot to this, however, is that gynocentric societies are deprived of superior intellect relative to gender neutral ones.
No matriarchy can exist without severe limits imposed on male power (both physical AND intellectual). They must either make do with fewer men or dumber.
The result is economic and/or military vulnerability to gender neutral societies. If their ever were amazons then it’s clear what happened to them.

This vulnerability is expressing itself as we speak in the Islamification of the west.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 1
Traveller September 25, 2010 at 12:29

A simple comparison:

Our world = a living organism
Men = normal productive cells
Women = cancer cells

The cancer does not understand. The cancer does not discuss. The cancer does not reason.

The cancer continues to devour, until nothing is left.

The cancer can not win, because if the organism is cured, the cancer goes away. And if the cancer is stronger enough to kill the organism, the cancer cells die anyway. So cancer can not win, but this does not prevent it to continue the sole thing it is programmed to do.

What does every one should have to discuss with cancer?

If there is need to amputate or surgically remove, for the benefit of the whole some surrounding cells can be sacrificed. And the known cures, radiations, chemical therapy, are weakening and dangerous.

Some little steps can be done. Marrige strike is one, fatherhood strike is another. They are not difficult, because they are natural to many men in this age. Few men are becoming sensible to the mistratment of men in advertisements and in family courts. Give it time.

Leave the media continue to blame the men of not growing because they do not commit to a female, in this economic crisis. Many men are not stupid, they smell the lie.

Leave them being fired because a lees competent female need affirmative action space.

Just continue to describe this form a men perspective. Radio London here.

I read an article about Swedish women raped by immigrants in one of previous comments sections. I feel like the feminist you spoke about. I feel near to nothing. Not only, but in parenthesis, I find a bit difficult believe a statistically communist female claiming rape against an immigrant (or claiming rape at all, must be an empowering try).

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 11
Traveller September 25, 2010 at 12:35

“Just continue to describe this form a men perspective”

Just continue to describe this FROM a men perspective.

Sorry.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4
Anonymous September 25, 2010 at 12:37

Go your own way, but donít disappear. Fight the good fight, but donít waste your ammunition on the brainwashed feminazi skank that is todayís Modern Woman. If you know any women on our side, let THEM fight that battle, women only listen to each other anyway!

Lord Viktor nice rant, but I think this is what we are allready doing the best we can.
Qoute from the manifesto;

What we do as activism or the way we behave personally are the main tactics.

Use of a logo which symbolizes the strategy.
Run one or many web-sites and fora that promotes this.
Run one or more web-sites which tells the truth about feminism.
Provide stickers, T-shirts, etc., with various statements such as “Chivalry is dead!”.
Writing articles supporting our product.
Producing music promoting our product.
Hold international events and local meetings.
Establishing men’s clubs.
Boycotting certain products.
You will basically be alone doing this. There is no organization supporting you. You just go your own way and do what you believe is right. You are never obligated beyond your own conscience. True masculinity is also about accepting the rights of other men and not letting them down for any short term personal benefits.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1
Paul Elam September 25, 2010 at 12:47

If we were all to suddenly say, ďFuck it!Ē and disappear, who is going to be there to warn our young men?

I was talking about disengaging from women, not our young men, and not each other- save for manginas an white knights.

Ragnar September 25, 2010 at 13:46

The lack of imagination among several posters surprise me.
MGTOW isn’t the end of the world nor is it an inevitable downgrading of human IQ .
It’s a strategy to bring about a change, we just don’t know exactly what – yet – but we are going to make that change.
Don’t doubt it.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1
Lovekraft September 25, 2010 at 13:58

There is no end to the horror stories that compel us to remain vigilant.

I have little hope that a men’s movement can be earth-shaking, due to the numerous interconnections and opposition that would dilute and distract. It would likely have power temporarily (after the revolution) but would quickly become subverted and corrupt.

So, Paul is correct in following the path of exposure and analysis and judgment (hree things lacking in today’s society). Matriarchy doesn’t want thinkers, it wants drones.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1
Alte September 25, 2010 at 14:00

Denninger is predicting a year or two, tops, before it all comes down. The more men pull out, the faster it would fall. It would only lead to a downgrading of human IQ if the men all stopped reproducing until they all died. I don’t think reform will actually take that long, to be honest. I’m just worried that the current system will be replaced by complete totalitarianism.

Good article, Paul. Well written, engaging, logical, and I particularly like this figure:

Womenís whining = pursuit of justice. Menís pursuit of justice = whining.

MGTOW reminds me a lot of asceticism, which has been the basis for a lot of powerful social movements.

There are women out there worth marrying, especially in strict religious traditions. We have some really nice Mennonite women around here, and some of the more devout Catholics are worth it. But the civil marriage laws, family courts, etc. are atrocious. There’s no denying that. I probably wouldn’t go for it, if I were a man.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 8
The White Rider September 25, 2010 at 14:33

Well, Alte, most women who claim to be good on the basis of religion are simply poseurs who want to seem like they stand out from the crowd who would marry you and take you for all you have. As is, there is no way to be sure except to not marry. Nobody can read another’s mind. It’s quite simply a gamble with bad chances of winning with the laws as they are.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 3
Herbal Essence September 25, 2010 at 14:43

Great stuff, and I agree. That’s why I say to give up on the women, and just focus on yourself and perhaps awakening receptive men.

The thing is, even if I wasn’t already disengaged from women, my observations of the married couples around my age would make me do so.

It has been years since I have met a man under 40 who is genuinely happy with his marriage. All of my male friends I’ve had over the years are married to shrieking harridans now. They complain about their wives to me all the time, and what i hear makes me ill. Hell, I’ve had a fair amount of married women tell me “Don’t ever get married, it sucks.” A girl cutting my hair just said that to me this past week, in fact.

One of the FEW exceptions is a cousin who is in a deeply loving marriage with a woman who is twelve years younger than him. She grew up on a farm and he was her “first.” They married when she was 19. So he probably has major power differential over her psychologically.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 1
Avenger September 25, 2010 at 14:48

a ten to one death gap concerning capital punishment that works against men

Erm, if 1200 men have been executed since the death penalty was reinstated and 11 females have been executed that’s a 100 to 1 gap.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2
Snark September 25, 2010 at 14:56

Well, Alte, most women who claim to be good on the basis of religion are simply poseurs who want to seem like they stand out from the crowd who would marry you and take you for all you have. As is, there is no way to be sure except to not marry. Nobody can read anotherís mind. Itís quite simply a gamble with bad chances of winning with the laws as they are.

This is precisely the issue.

If I showed you a nest, and said that inside there are vipers, but only half are poisonous, would you care to pull one out? Divorce is at 50%, and we all know the consequences for men.

Now, I wouldn’t put my hand into the nest, and that is not to say that I believe All Vipers Are Poisonous, or that I believe there are no good vipers in the nest, or that I have any ill feeling at all towards the vipers which are not poisonous.

But, there is no way, even from just looking at a viper, that I could tell if it is poisonous or not. It is simply not worth the risk, even if I like vipers very much, when they are not injecting their venom into me!

So … women who wish to be married, but cannot get men to commit, should not be whining about the men.

And if they pulled their heads out their asses and realised that men are human beings too, with rational beliefs and motivations …

Then they might start looking for the source of the poison.

Good women, who I am sure are out there, are indistinguishable from the bad, and accordingly, decent women should blame and hold to account feminists just as much as should decent men.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 1
Keyster September 25, 2010 at 15:18

Sometimes everyone needs to be guided back to see the forest for the trees. We get too immersed in the minutia of daily events and lose perspective. That’s what Elam thoughtfully has done here.

There is a Galt’s Gulch of sorts now. A virtual one right here and in other cyber spaces. There are millions of MGTOW who have no idea there even is a men’s movement, or something called “anti-feminism”. They just know something is wrong, and if they’re brave or inquisitive enough to find out exactly what, we’re here to tell them if they’ll listen. Many pick up bits of information here and there and move on, while some linger and want to know even more.

There’s undeniably two distinct varieties of people in the world. The male type and the female type. And but for temporary sexual union, they’re not getting along very well right now. It stems for the enmity feminism has created, and its a real shame its gotten this way. We have no choice but to turn our backs on traditional life paths. The decision to do so has been made for us. The only reasonable alternative is apathy, avoidance and self-preservation.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2
Steve September 25, 2010 at 15:23

I agree with what Paul has said, but I’ll expand and offer a complementary possibility. Men in general do not fear commitment if it is fair. As such the problem is “civil marriage” and not “marriage.”

If the Catholic Church was smart, it would lobby for exemption from “civil marriage.” Then all could choose to be religiously married with the traditional “til death do us part” promise. In the event of a separation, there would be no divorce and the only remedy would be “annulment,” which the Catholic Church already handles through canon law. Other non-Catholic denominations would have to develop their own system.

In fact, mandate that civil marriage must be performed by a civil authority. Stop mandating that priests and pastors be instruments of the state in presiding over marriage thus creating future fodder for the divorce/custody industry. If a couple wants to be both civilly and religiously married then there should be two ceremonies, one religious and one civil.

A religiously married spouse could receive “partner benefits,” the same as if it were a gay partner. Women would actually fight for this cause. This turns the tables on the homosexual and feminist activists and lets all men participate in the benefits they have won.

Certainly this would not solve all society’s problems but could part of the foundation for a solution. Just another radical common sense idea for others to consider.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 1
Herbal Essence September 25, 2010 at 15:42

Snark-”Good women, who I am sure are out there, are indistinguishable from the bad, and accordingly, decent women should blame and hold to account feminists just as much as should decent men.”

Indeed they should. But here’s the thing – 90% of the time, women will take the side of women when the debate is men vs. women. Even the “good” women do this. Left to themselves, women claw each other’s eyes out eventually. But once a man is on the scene, the women herd together psychologically. And you can debate until you’re blue in the face, even with a “good” woman, and she’s still more likely then not to defend women. Or, you’ll get some load of cowpie equivocation, like “Both men and women are nasty and vicious” or “NAWALT.” Fuck ‘em.

As Paul so poetically said above, “no amount of reason will produce anything more than the blank, uncomprehending stare of a cow seeing its own reflection in a pond.” As an aside, I’ve noticed black men referring to women as “heifers.” They’re spot-on correct about that one.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 5
Troll King September 25, 2010 at 15:47

wow, I really like the comments on this thread. Cancer and Vipers….lulz

Women are more like a cancerous viper…lulz

They are dependent or submissive or parasitical by nature it seems and it appears that most are not capable of acting beyond their baseline impulses. It’s quite fascinating to observe, whether it’s women buying cheap clothes and then bitching about child labor in sweatshops in india or women buying those tabloids and then blaming that evil capitalistic patriarchy for objectifying women or women buying water bottles by the zillion and then blaming globabl warming and landfills on the patriarchy or women complaining about the war in Iraq before getting into her hummer to pick the kids up from school…..damn, the lists really are endless. One of my favorite stats is that women own more houses than men, it reached a peak and then the housing market collapsed…lulz

That evil patriarchy is to blame, it capitulated to womens every demand until the demands gew to create too much stress and the whole house of cards fell down. It will keep happening but with greater frequency until all of western civ is gone.

MGTOW is basically the default programming of most men. When you have been told, explicitly and implicitly your whole life that your not just not needed but not wanted either…why the fuck stay around that?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 5
Rebel September 25, 2010 at 15:50

@Steve,

This is getting difficult. How do you avoid the government from jumping into your bed???

No form of marriage is acceptable anymore: the institution has agonized and its deadly remains are highly toxic: let it rest in peace.

There is still cohabitation or a mild form of cohabitation (with cameras for your protection).

Better still: remain single and spend time with “friends with benefits” whenever the occasion arises.

Your problems will begin the very minute you make a commitment of any sort.

Avoid family responsibilities and obligations and take care of your own self. That, in itself, is a reward.

Men have been conditioned to sacrifice their lives for their women and children. Now is the time to wash away that conditioning and start to take care of yourselves for a change. This is a rare novelty. It may never happen again.

That is a very interesting challenge: to live just for yourself.
There is nothing to stop you once you made up your mind and free yourself. You can live your own dream.

The beauty of it is that nobody will blame you if you chose that route.

So, what are you waiting for? Vive la vie!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
piercedhead September 25, 2010 at 15:53

Splendid piece, demonstrating yet again the calibre of talent available to us, small as we are. One rarely meets with this quality of expression anywhere else now – occasionally the odd good movie.

I nearly fell off my chair laughing after reading this about the average woman’s reaction to our message:

And no amount of reason will produce anything more than the blank, uncomprehending stare of a cow seeing its own reflection in a pond.

I have seen that cow. Over and over again. It amazes me now that I actually spoke to it, thinking it would understand.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 1
Troll King September 25, 2010 at 15:55

aaarrrgghhh e matie…I forgot to put in my email address and the moderation whale ate my comment.

I really like the MGTOW logo, where does it come from and is anyone selling shirts or such things with it on them? I kinda reminds me of a skater symbol I saw along time ago.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1
Ragnar September 25, 2010 at 16:00

Let’s not forget Zed’s eminent piece on ignoring women;
Ignoring Women
or
Public Policy for Men Going Their Own Way by Mechanized
or
MarkyMark’s MGTOW Manifesto

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1
Keyster September 25, 2010 at 16:01

Feminists have claimed from the beginning that men would simply have to adapt; that this “movement” was going to happen and they’ll need to learn to accept it. They still cling to this DISMISSAL of men as though they were our scolding mothers, (see recent Newsweek article).

Well, several generations on and men are “adapting” in the the most powerful and potent way they ever could; by simply ignoring them. Pussy is a commodity and marriage is a trap. We get it now. The broken men left in your wake of entitlement now remind us. We’re “adapting” alright, but not like how you might have fantasized we would.

The path to your “empowerment” is strewn with IED’s and men are it’s Hummers. We’ll divert if its all the same to you.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1
Lord Viktor September 25, 2010 at 16:01

@Paul Elam:

I was talking about disengaging from women, not our young men, and not each other- save for manginas an white knights.

Thanks for the clarification.

I disagree with the white knight part, though. Manginas are completely lost causes, but not the white knights. The white knight may worship women like the mangina, but at he still has some self-respect. He doesn’t go around begging and sniveling for forgiveness for having a penis. His problem is that his sense of chivalry has been amplified to an unhealthy degree, but if you can give him ample evidence that women are not worth that inflated sense of chivalry, he might wake up.

The feminazi uses the white knight but at the end of the day, she utterly hates and despises him because she still can sense a male-ness emanating from his being, but because it isn’t strong enough to DOMINATE HER, she rejects him.

The mangina is a different matter, he is utterly irredeemable. While the white knight is merely a product of misused, misguided male energy and chivalry, the mangina utterly despises his own gender; he is so filled with self-hatred and shame for being born a male that even the most man-hating feminazi enjoys his company, treating him as an honorary sister.

He utterly wishes he was born a female but because he lacks the spine to snip his balls, he tries to modify his behavior and his psyche to match that of a female. He turns gay or bisexual (because all straight males are sexist), he deplores all things masculine, he tries to get in touch with his feminine side and destroy all traces of his male identity and etc, etc, etc, you get the idea.

Like I said, you have to really, really, REALLY despise yourself and your brother men to become this abomination.

White knights have this to their credit, at least they like themselves and can appreciate guy stuff from time-to-time. That is the point of attack. Teach them just how little women really care about them, how undeserved the knights’ quest to defend their honor really is and they will ditch the shining armor.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 0
TFH September 25, 2010 at 16:21

Don’t worry about IQ degradation. I am the father of ~20 kids and my IQ would rate in the 140-150 range.

For those of your terrified of IQ degradation, sperm banks are your friend. They concentrate reproduction amongst the highest IQ men, displacing the alternative – low IQ thugs.

At least on a small scale.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 21
Epoche* September 25, 2010 at 16:51

I dont think that it is merely the size of the IQ that causes concern here, the fact that these men are locked out of fatherhood. A good father cannot be replaced by the state.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 1
Steve September 25, 2010 at 17:10

@Rebel

I understand your points. I may in fact take that path, since I have heard no worse divorce/custody situation than my own. Women are a lot of trouble, but damn, they have such wonderful curves!

I feel the Catholic Church abandoned fathers. The Church refuses to recognize my rights and responsibilities as a father, all because of false and unproven allegations acted upon by the civil family court, decided by a female judge. I could care less if the judge wasmale or female if the decisions were based on law, fact and proof. They were not and on about the 4th or 5th time before her, I got handed my ass when I had the unfortunate luck of being there on her PMS day. This factor alone should disqualify all women from the bench!

But still the concept of religious marriage does not scare me. I never violated my vows. Certainly I made a poor choice in marrying a BPD woman, but have to admit I was a wuss and have learned the hard way what it means to be a REAL man (as opposed to “Nice Guy” or “Bad Boy”).

Never-the-less, I think it is the civil authorities in society that have planted the seeds of destruction and watered them to germinate. The Bishops and Priests in the Church were blind at the time and currently lack the “balls” to take a stand on the real issue. But I am certain that having “balls” is a requirement for becoming a Catholic Priest. So maybe they just need to find them!

There is a great opportunity in this issue for the Catholic Church to ďbe wise as serpents and innocent as doves,Ē as stated in Matthew 10:16.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1
3DShooter September 25, 2010 at 19:00

Good article Paul – very well put perspective on the ‘it isn’t getting anywere’ voices.

“Men donít need advice or guidance near as much as they need information. And if there is anything that most of them actually need to learn, it is that the only real leadership is in the mirror. Our agenda is defined by our own choices and actions. Our ďcauseĒ is our own life, on our own terms.”

I certainly came to this realization at the hands of the kangaroo family court. Before I had always considered myself a libertarian and voted anti-established candidate; after, I prefer to be considered an anarchist (most people have no clue what that actually means and their mental image is totally off -but I digress). What I found afterwords is that shunning the shunning the ‘established thinking’ can be an amusing process.

Prior to my awakening I always voted regularly – and was always disappointed. Now, I’m never disappointed and have had quite a bit of fun with the vote hucksters that come out every couple years. In fact sitting with neighbors a couple years ago, the candidates drones came to my door. Sitting there with a friend, I let them pitch their spiel and then to their shock informed them of my leanings and that I simply refused to affirm my ‘consent to be governed’ by participating. They literally didn’t know what to say, the dumbfounded looks were priceless. Much the same as what I get when I tell women that not only will I never marry again, I actively encourage men not to participate as well.

Maybe a bit Thoreau-ish and it can be a bit lonely at times, but it is preferable to the mind games that being one of societies cookie cutter droids experience the wrath of feminism.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
CM September 25, 2010 at 19:14

Thought of an idea … that what defines us partly is our position… our position is that of a rebel. We are rebels… thus we have something in common with EVERY other rebel out there. Rebels love to rebel and get pissed off about something – they feel powerless and need to rebel that makes them feel better… we can use that need to our advantage… Feminism may have been their old mode of rebelling – but now it’s lost all it’s glee it’s juice has run dry. The man is utterly defeated it’s the mam now. So what some of us could do – if we have time… is check out other subcultures out there like the Adbusters (https://www.adbusters.org/) or the anarchists… or the psychedelic community. I know Mike Lasalle is a pot head if we can network our rebellion with other subcultures the matrix will beg for mercy.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Alte September 25, 2010 at 19:32

With devoutly religious women the divorce rate is low (although the man’s treatment afterward will still totally suck, despite the relative rarity). The bigger issue there is what I call “Christo-feminism”. In other words, she probably won’t leave you, but she may be such an insufferable nag and insubordinate narcissist that you may end up wishing she would leave you.

Most of the married couples I know seem to at least be content, and many are very happy, but I can hardly claim that my relatives and acquaintances represent any sort of cross-section of the populace. I can sympathize with a lot of the stories you guys write here, because some of my younger male friends and relatives have been going through those things, as well. Some of it quite horrific. The problems are real.

They can’t marry their sisters and cousins, after all, and as soon as you go outside of your family and closest circle, you don’t really know what you’re getting. I was blessed to have my marriage arranged by people I trust, but not everyone is so lucky.

Snark,

I know you feel that way and I think that it is perfectly legitimate. Marriage is a Big Deal and we should all carefully consider our options before stepping into it. I’m not allowed to divorce, so I know I was much more careful in my spousal selection than many other young women. If you know it could end up ending really, really, badly for the rest of your life, you are bound to pause and think, “Is it worth it? Do I really want this, or should I spend my time doing something else?” I think it is wise to be cautious, and only fools rush in.

Good women, who I am sure are out there, are indistinguishable from the bad, and accordingly, decent women should blame and hold to account feminists just as much as should decent men.

This is very true, and I’ve been glad to see some of the more decent women (I am hesitant to name anyone “good”, as we all have our sins and flaws) stepping up to the plate on that front. Not just online, but in real life. That has given me some hope, of late. At first, when I saw a woman misbehaving I thought, “It’s an isolated incident. It’s just a bad apple.” But when it happens over and over and over, it makes you question the whole system. It has become so commonplace that it is increasingly impossible to ignore.

I feel the Catholic Church abandoned fathers.

The Catholic Church has abandoned patriarchy, right across the board. Fatherhood, husbandry, male headship, fidelity, honor, tradition, virility… everything. Just everything. We dumped it all like a bunch of idiots to follow the crowd to feminism. To our shame. We’re supposed to be the last bastian against the fall of Christian patriarchy, which was given to us in a sacred trust.

I pray for the Church every night, especially for Msgr. Pope and the other honorable priests and laymen who are trying to improve things, especially the seminarians and young priests who are definitely an improvement over the older ones. But it is definitely an uphill battle, to say the least, and a lot of the Catholic women seem to be spending more time blocking reform than helping.

I hope I didn’t derail the thread too much, as I think the topic is very important. Thank you for allowing me to speak here, and thank you again to Paul for a most excellent article.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 15
ZenCo. September 25, 2010 at 19:35

I’ve been saying for years that only women can truly stop feminism.
Our entire Western Society is, indeed, on a swift decline. But, the real consequences take time to happen. Maybe one’s entire lifetime.
It’s too late for guys like me in their mid-40′s; probably too late for guys in their 20′s too. But in the end it will take women waking up to the carnage around them to stop all this bullshit.
Times are going to get harder in the near term though.
If we don’t un-fuck this propped-up economy soon, there will be hoardes of angry young men without jobs, disenfranchised by government, education, and society-at-large, who will take out their anger on some of the wrong people. Hopefully, they’ll get some of the right people too. I see this level of anarchy in ten years tops.
I feel like Gene Hackman in the movie ‘Poseiden Adventure’ trying to talk sense into the people awaiting rescue instead of digging their way out.
I suppose that every society, small and large, has to go through the spasms of revolution from time to time.
We’re probably overdue in the US.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2
Jesse September 25, 2010 at 21:22

@Alte
Of course it will be replaced by a totalitarian government. Democracy doesn’t have the tools to deal with the situation because the bitches outnumber us. Giving women the vote was the reason we are in this situation in the first place.
One day the Muslims will simply move in because they outbreed us and the non-Muslim men will welcome them with open arms. I see my refusal to breed as one more step towards that end and I will not apologise for that. The women will cry and bemoan their loss of power but ultimately it will be their own fault when they get stoned in the street. Personally I will feel no pity for them, they brought it down upon themselves.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 4
old ranger September 25, 2010 at 22:44

Ok its s good article as it goes. all the comments jumped past my major issue with Paul’s arguement. Which led me to the conclsion that the commentors are a bunch of crazy nihilists. you make as much sense as the WeatherUnderground-a bunch of screwed up richkids bombing maiboxes [ok at lest it was something]. anyhoo.. back on point….when men drop out, women go get turkey baster bastard babies and the “sperm donar” is protected from child support. cute huh? So after that, society lurches into armegeddon and the nihilists are happy. Oh well, I have an alterntive to Armegeddon but it involves Calvin nd not the Pope.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3
Ms_Fu September 25, 2010 at 23:05

This was a wonderful article, Paul. Thanks.

I was wondering about the role of women in taking down feminism. You compared the position of feminists in society to those of white slave owners in the antebellum South. But if I recall, slavery was ended not by the uprising of slaves (men, in your paradigm) but by other white people (non-feminist women). As a woman, I have the fortunate position of being able to argue about the state of men in our society without being considered a whiner or a weakling (as a man would). Unfortunately there aren’t enough women who realize that it benefits them and their male relatives to have feminist policies reversed.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5
greyghost September 25, 2010 at 23:26

I like it Paul, great motivating artical. It is strange how people come to the same conclusions and just need a way to say it out loud. Disengaging,indifference,going your own way, etc. is the only thing that will have an effect. The only activision men need is for the tools of indifference and every once in a while mainstream media exposure to let more men that are unware of us but have a sense of something wrong.
I would love to see a male birth control pill. That tool for a man will make him nearly bullet proof. That combined with Game will bring down the house. Some real national stat type goals for thr MRM would be a 50% reduction in marriages over the next 10 years. Reduce unwed motherhood by 70 to 90 percent. Think about those two things happening. A pregnant woman in that world would need a gun to keep from having some crazy bitch cut the baby out of her. Imagine the “dear Abby” letters from 20 to 30 million women in their 40′s and 50′s that have never had a child. The most awesome conversation would be one with a 46 or so year old childless bitch that had a couple of abortions in her girl power years.
You all have taught me well and I know women much more. You have a wife that tells you she loves you and treats you like shit. You ask her to stop with something along the line “why are you doing this?you said you loved me. Her solution will be to stop telling you she loves you. That is woman today. Activism is pissing inthe wind. A 52 year old woman childless and single on display with some news anchor interviewing this lonely woman on TV with the anchor talking shit about men abandoning women. Some 24 year old with her BA degree and 75k loan debt watching that will beg for some change. That will be some highly gameable pussy. I see that as the only way to make any real lasting change.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3
DirkJohanson September 26, 2010 at 00:24

@Rebel stated, on September 25, 2010 at 15:50

“remain single and spend time with ‘friends with benefits’ whenever the occasion arises.”

From vast personal experience, in addition to Rebel’s suggestion, I also highly recommend “hookers with benefits” ( I know, a little redundant).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
Migu September 26, 2010 at 01:27

Walk away and they will follow. Once they are following they will listen. Tell them, then continue walking. Keep your dick dry and pay attention to who still follows. Then send them off to find their own followers.

1,2,4,8,16,32,64………..,,,

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0
thehermit September 26, 2010 at 01:59

Feminism may have been their old mode of rebelling Ė but now itís lost all itís glee itís juice has run dry.

Yes but rebels lose their position, when they get the power. A rebel is rebel because of his/her powerless position, wke he/she don’t what to admit the actual status quo.
IMO, feminism was not even a real riot, based on mostly fantasy. Compare black slaves position with the womens’ position. Black slaves were forced to work, often tortured, often killed. women always has some kind of power, and nowadays have too much…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0
alpha September 26, 2010 at 02:03

“the women are facing domestic violence!Physical, mental, emotional, economic violence!’

shrug

“”she will have psychological scars”!

shrug

“why are men always such hypocrites?Is it always necessary to have double standards”?

shrug

“is this how you were brought up?not to respect ladies?”

shrug

“can’t you for once act like a man?a grown-up?”

shrug

“women have been oppressed since the dawn of the human race!”

shrug

“the vile Taliban are whipping the women!”

shrug

“Why don’t you do the chivalrous thing and help that poor girl/woman?”

shrug

“are you always this self-centered?”

shrug

“do you realize that,because of your misogyny I have no problem being a misandrist?”

shrug

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 0
POIUYT September 26, 2010 at 02:09

This is the best mens activism article ever written.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
Ragnar September 26, 2010 at 02:54

Troll King September 25, 2010 at 15:55
I really like the MGTOW logo, where does it come from and is anyone selling shirts or such things with it on them? I kinda reminds me of a skater symbol I saw along time ago

There’s a Cafepress shop, humbly made by me, called OWNWAY

When Meikyo and I met in Hickory, N.C. and drafted the manifesto I volunteered to sketch a logo. After getting some advice from an advertising guy I suggested the logo in a rather primitive sketchy form. Then some guy’s at the old Our Board made better versions of it.
Unfortunately I cannot find the link to a thread on Mancoat which actually discusses this in detail. Here are some logo’s that can be found on the net;

Original sketch;

The vuvuzela;

http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=20619
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/jtest28/images/MGTOW-Gif.gif
http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum/uploads/av-1969.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/jtest28/images/OwnWay2.jpg
http://manpower.blogdrive.com/images/Logo.JPG

To my knowledge there is no US roadsign exactly like it, but the design is very close. When the logo is used freely by anyone it will be hard to stop and it will be branded by the users to mean MGTOW/MRA/MM or something like that.
This is fine – you can all go and make your own logos – it’s the branding that’s hard to do. The branding has been done by numerous men using it to it’s purpose. :-)

Wonder if pictures are allowed in the thread?
Otherwise copy-paste into a new browser window.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
Ragnar September 26, 2010 at 02:57
Anonymous September 26, 2010 at 03:05

@ Ragnar,

lol wut

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Ragnar September 26, 2010 at 03:08

Migu; Walk away and they will follow. Once they are following they will listen. Tell them, then continue walking. Keep your dick dry and pay attention to who still follows. Then send them off to find their own followers.

Exactly – this is what women always have done – Follow men!

We must give women equality, hard and clean, and demand they make themselves useful.
To suggest is to volunteer (Zed qoute ;-) ) and if women suggest anything, let them do it. If they suggest something in an area they are not into, then it’s none of their bussiness and they should shut up!

The same basicly goes for men. If you are not into a project it’s not your bussiness how it’s done. Men can, of course met and discuss subjects of mutual interest. It’s important always to respect the privacy of other men and their property. Letting women into a group of men is actually a breach of privacy for the man/family to which she belongs. It is never any bussiness of other men to deal with a woman, if so they break the privacy of her man and then destroy his incentive to support the group.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1
Gunslingergregi September 26, 2010 at 08:32

”””” Jesse September 25, 2010 at 10:12
If I may make an observation. I have many male friends with IQís around 140 and all of us to a man have eschewed becoming fathers because it just didnít seem like an intelligent path to take. Signing a contract that burdens one with responsibilities while stripping one of rights is not an intelligent choice. Men of low intelligence however seem to sign the contract again and again.
In Australia the government now pays a $5000 ďbaby bonusĒ as a bribe to get women to breed. It has increased the birth rate but where are these new babies coming from? You guessed it, half-witted single mothers and junkies who actually think $5000 is a lot of money in comparison to the cost of having a child. As men here have no right to order a paternity test the woman simply finds a man stupid enough to have unprotected sex and uses him as a sperm bank with a wallet. Whichever one has the most money gets to carry the bag.
Idiocracy is not a comedy, it is an accurate portrayal of reality.
I am 47 and have been single for the last 6 years. It has been the most fruitful and drama free period of my entire life Ė and I havenít even signed up for the fatherhood trap. I make less money than ever before but seem to have far more disposable income. If one doesnít have a bitch hanging off you you donít actually need much money at all.
Intelligent men do seem to be waking up but letís face it, half of the population have an IQ less than 100 by definition and 100 is pretty thick. I think it will be a long time before the masses learn that rising above oneís rutting instincts is their best option and even then very few will be able to actually do it. Passive withdrawal is a nice idea but I canít see it becoming widespread enough to actually affect change, especially as the pool of intelligent men withers and dies through not passing on their genes due to passive withdrawal itself.

””””””””’

Obviously 140 iq doesn’t mean shit if you only didn’t have kids because you were afraid of the financial burden.

I figured out how to have kids and have money and provide for my family and go my own way and do what the fuck I want and I don’t have 140 iq. Get off your fucking high horse your a moron.

And I intentially mispelled your.

You know why because it doesn’t matter.

False pride false pride is a bitch.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7
Gunslingergregi September 26, 2010 at 08:37

Good article though.

Really guys should be going surrogate route to have kids at this point. They are cute and more fun than tv.

Probably even more fun for intelligent guys you get to relive some childhood and have an excuse to buy toys.

What better reason could there be lol

Seriously just take out the female middle woman and go your own way still have kids though and take the money from the state.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
Ragnar September 26, 2010 at 08:40

LOL! Anonymous just google “vuvuzela origin” and you got the logo. LULZ! ;)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Gunslingergregi September 26, 2010 at 08:42

Really if you had kids through surrogate and then went on welfare you could live off of state just like a woman lol

Go your own way and have health insurance plus foodstamps and can work a little he he he

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
Gunslingergregi September 26, 2010 at 08:43

Free house free food free insurance free bills.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
Migu September 26, 2010 at 09:37

Indeed, sucking off the host is hard work. Probably should start a host breeding program.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Epoche* September 26, 2010 at 10:38

If I was going to make a recommendation to any man here, get a job at a restaurant/bar tending. You wont make that much/ too little and you get a chance to meet women. MGTOW can be strategic, it doesnt have to be all or nothing. If I do get motivated enough to get back to school, I will move out of the country.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
trent13 September 26, 2010 at 14:09

If the Catholic Church was smart, it would lobby for exemption from ďcivil marriage.Ē Then all could choose to be religiously married with the traditional ďtil death do us partĒ promise. In the event of a separation, there would be no divorce and the only remedy would be ďannulment,Ē which the Catholic Church already handles through canon law.

Good idea. For anyone who is actually following their faith and believes in it, the civil marriage part of a Catholic marriage ceremony has no supernatural bearing on the validity of the sacrament – in other words, it doesn’t count for crap. We do it because of the whole, “render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.” Regardless of what the state says, it’s for life; even if the state recognizes a divorce between Catholics, if they get remarried, they are committing adultery. At least that is the way it used to be. progressive modernists in the hierarchy jumping on board with feminism and every other liberal thing out there.

What I find interesting (and this was mentioned on the Thinking Housewife) is that getting married with a state mandated marriage license gives the state power over your marriage and your children – saying that the state has the right to remove your children from your custody and to determine the division of assets between the spouses in the event of separation.

In which case, if any man was going to get married (and if I was an unbeliever, I wouldn’t bother) wouldn’t it make sense to skip the civil marriage license and just have a religious ceremony, regardless of whether or not they were Catholic?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
Alte September 26, 2010 at 17:01

Trent and Steve,

It’s a bit more complicated than that, but you are both very warm. TTH’s post was based upon her offline discussion with me on the subject. I’m considering doing an article on it, if you are interested.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4
Alte September 26, 2010 at 17:53

I’m reading through The Rhetoric of Aristotle right now, and I just hit upon a passage related to the discussion:

But while he must, for security’s sake, be able to take all this into account, he must before all things understand the subject of legislation; for it is on a country’s laws that its whole welfare depends. He must, therefore, know how many different forms of constitution there are; under what conditions each of these will prosper and by what internal developments or external attacks each of them tends to be destroyed. When I speak of destruction through internal developments I refer to the fact that all constitutions, except the best one of all, are destroyed both by not being pushed far enough and by being pushed too far. Thus, democracy loses its vigour, and finally passes into oligarchy, not only when it is not pushed far enough, but also when it is pushed a great deal too far; just as the aquiline and the snub nose not only turn into normal noses by not being aquiline or snub enough, but also by being too violently aquiline or snub arrive at a condition in which they no longer look like noses at all.

It is useful, in framing laws, not only to study the past history of one’s own country, in order to understand which constitution is desirable for it now, but also to have a knowledge of the constitutions of other nations, and so to learn for what kinds of nation the various kinds of constitution are suited.

Isn’t that exactly what has happened? Democracy lost its vigor by being usurped by “domestic issues” (something it is generally unsuited for) and by voting rights being granted to those without reciprocal responsibilities — i.e. representation without taxation. Isn’t feminism just an offshoot — albeit a major one — of that larger error?

If I look up “oligarchy”, Wikepedia defines it as:

An oligarchy (from Greek ?????????, oligarkhŪa[1]) is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small segment of society distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, or military control. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words “??????” (olŪgos), “a few”[2] and the verb “????” (archo), “to rule, to govern, to command”.[3] Such states are often controlled by a few prominent families who pass their influence from one generation to the next.

Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist. Although Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged group, and do not have to be connected by bloodlines as in a monarchy. Some city-states from ancient Greece were oligarchies.

Are we not moving to a post-republican and even post-democratic system of a military oligarchy controlled by a privileged group?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
Epoche* September 26, 2010 at 18:33

Sir Henry Maine the great Victorian legal theorist stated made the famous statement that the movement of progressive societies is from status
tocontract. The modern liberal is almost a complete reversal of this trend.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
alpha September 26, 2010 at 20:11

Quote If we all just abscond and retreat into our own little MGTOW paradise, we will merely die out and leave no legacy for the next generation of men to follow, leaving them to be sacrificed on the alter of the Queen Goddess, just a nameless rabble of emasculated goats for whose deaths no female shall ever mourn.

I know this whole this is very frustrating and agonizing, but that is because we are channeling our righteous anger in the wrong direction. We need to put out efforts into rescuing males, not converting females.

Look, you want to stop driving yourselves mad? Then talk to the men and the boys! Make book and videos that warn our young boys what awaits them. Channel your efforts to re-ball the emasculated Beta males instead of laughing at them for not having enough Game.

Hell, you can even try to save the white knights and manginas if you are so inclined. I know some of them can be saved because I was one of them! unquote

Exactly!Better to fight than to retreat or surrender! WE can’t just let the feminists , cultural marxists, or whatever, just rampage through society. Will we just crawl into our shells and moan “oh, they have won, what can we do?”
We owe nothing to the women, but we can help out our brothers/sons/friends who are still stuck in the “Matrix” of feminist propaganda

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0
Steve September 26, 2010 at 20:36

Trent & Alte:

Thank you for the comments on the position I floated. I started to prepare an additional comment to expound upon it. Then I decided that the concept should not be buried within the comments to another article. So I decided to write my own article and further develop the argument. I do not wish to take credit for this because this idea is built upon the work of others.

I have written it and am vetting it by two Priests I know well and two others. I value their opinions. I want to finely hone my argument and avoid any fatal inconsistencies. I encourage others to write articles as well because the discourse I have found on this site is of very high caliber.

I look forward to submitting my article and the subsequent debate.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
Fidelbogen September 26, 2010 at 21:29

“The anti-male nature of the state voids any social contract binding upon men. Feminism has no ground of moral authority. You have no political obligation toward women. Your transaction with any individual woman is based on a moral law within yourself.”


http://tinyurl.com/2f2r8pz

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0
fmz September 27, 2010 at 02:05

There’s nothing to save. Nothing to change. Everything is exactly as it is, as it should be. Now, shrug at it all and vote with thy feet. Go your own way. Detach. Give them nothing. No attention, no discussion, no nothing. Just don’t rub it in their faces, b/c they will cut you down, harshly. They know that they live off your back and that if you arent made an example of, it will catch on and they wont even have a trough from which to raise their whining snouts in complaint of the free meal.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
Binxton September 27, 2010 at 04:24

The Catholic Church has abandoned patriarchy, right across the board. Fatherhood, husbandry, male headship, fidelity, honor, tradition, virilityÖ everything. Just everything. We dumped it all like a bunch of idiots to follow the crowd to feminism. To our shame. Weíre supposed to be the last bastian against the fall of Christian patriarchy, which was given to us in a sacred trust.

The Church is merely an institution, no different from the schools, the military, the mass media, corporations, etc. It is susceptible to the same corrupting influences that pervade every institution in society today.

We cannot rely on the institutions (including the Church) to effect change of the kind we want. That change will have to come from outside the institutions. And because the struggle for patriarchy is in essence a revolt against modernity and liberalism, that change will necessarily be revolutionary in nature.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
djc September 27, 2010 at 07:08

“My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I donít even need to shrug. I simply donít care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearning were, simply donít matter.”

Funny, that’s exactly the way I feel about women.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
Alte September 27, 2010 at 07:54

An institution can change and develop if the people change and develop within it. The Church is being slowly transformed from the inside, so we do not need revolution but a return to tradition. Although, in our insane age, tradition is revolutionary.

In other words, the goal is not for the Church to effect change, the goal is to change the Church.

Steve,

I also started an article on the subject last night, written from the historical perspective. Should I just send you mine, for incorporation?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6
Steve September 27, 2010 at 10:10

Alte,

I wouldn’t mind comparing notes or exchanging drafts, but somewhat similar articles from a male and female perspective would be very useful.

To be honest, men and women think differently and present concepts differently. Combining styles could muddle the message that each article would effectively communicate separately.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
Alte September 27, 2010 at 10:18

Okay. I’ll submit mine separately, then.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3
luvsic September 27, 2010 at 13:57

A+ Post Mr. Elam

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Richard September 27, 2010 at 16:01

Sorry I cannot provide a reference for this (it was quite a scholarly article though):

25% of men have been disenfranchised from society – 25% do not engage in sex – ever, and have little or no social/sex life, no children etc…

All it would take is 5% of employed men to stop doing what they are doing, and this country would see an economic crisis like you cannot imagine.

1/4 disenfranchised. 1/20 are necessary to prevent economic collapse.

This tells me that men are NECESSARY. Funny that they are thought of as disposable…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Steve September 27, 2010 at 17:22

I nominate this as the theme song for MGTOW
Amos Lee – Seen It All Before

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
varslandeman September 28, 2010 at 04:51

Paul,

A fairly good working definition of ‘property’ in human terms is someone who has been denied political expression, either through vote or participation. Lacking either puts you in the category of slaves rather than the category of free men.

Yet there is a kind of participation that MRA and MGTOW adherents practise — we participate in opting out of a Hobson’s choice, in choosing a Great Refusal. We refuse to be passive dupes of a system that does not have our interests at heart and we opt out of what we can only envision as a set of poor life choices.

Beyond the idea of ‘shrugging it’ comes creating a silence so loud that it cannot be unheard, of creating a refusal in everyday politics that forms its own political movement. As you note in your article, the MRA and MGTOW movements are still young. Perhaps as we develop more of a sense of our own loud silence, we will find a way to deliver our message with sufficient force.

I personally imagine this force as gentlemanly pugilism, not necessarily delivered by Marquess of Queensbury rules, but clearly delivered as blows in that vein …

Till nšsta tid,
varslandeman

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Ragnar September 28, 2010 at 08:20

Varslandeman.
Nice to see a Swede here. :-)
Btw good post. There seem to be a lot of men all over who agree on this in their own way – and you’re right we will find a way to fight as a team.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Ken September 28, 2010 at 09:05

“As I have said before, women are the modern shiv that the government uses to stab men in the back. No one needs leadership to recognize that and act accordingly. All they need is a little common sense, and a good measure of the very uncommon sense that comes with being able to imagine yourself outside the role that has been prescribed for you”. {Well Said!}
{As a single, childless man at age 40, I sometimes feel “judged” by peers and co-workers for being WITHOUT a wife and kids and TRY to think like this but the “prescription” of marriage/kids/hearth/home is ingrained in us to the point it’s hard to justify NOT having. Kinda like being outside the candy store looking in, in a way}

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Albert September 28, 2010 at 10:49

Varslandeman och Ragnar, trevligt att se lite landsbrŲder pŚ The Spearhead.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Anonymous September 28, 2010 at 11:04

Albert September 28, 2010 at 10:49
Varslandeman och Ragnar, trevligt att se lite landsbrŲder pŚ The Spearhead.

Ja, det er herligt Albert vi bliver langsomt flere og flere nordiske mśnd. :-)

I like the Spearhead very much as it is a very important part in the MM. Let’s comtribute as much we can. Unfortunately my english isn’t up to writing articles, but less can do it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Ragnar September 28, 2010 at 11:09

Hm . . . my answer will probably appear as ‘anonymous’. ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Paul Elam September 29, 2010 at 00:08

@ varslandeman

Excellent. You see, my article only dealt with half the picture. It has been my philosophy for some time to maintain focus on the job at hand.

I fully believe that men will come together with much more organized efforts, but only after they shrug the system in sufficient numbers. The system is responsible for a lot of our infighting and defeats because we have so many mixed factions within our ranks, many of them still attached to tradition.

When enough men have shrugged the misandric zeitgeist, then they will undoubtedly come together to burn the motherfucker down.

Ragnar September 29, 2010 at 03:00

When enough men have shrugged the misandric zeitgeist, then they will undoubtedly come together to burn the motherfucker down.

JA! :-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
zed September 30, 2010 at 07:24

Ragnar September 29, 2010 at 03:00

When enough men have shrugged the misandric zeitgeist, then they will undoubtedly come together to burn the motherfucker down.

JA!

Pretty much what we had in mind when we articulated MGTOW and put the ideas out into the online world to catch on with men, eh?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Ragnar September 30, 2010 at 08:18

zed September 30, 2010 at 07:24
. . .
Pretty much what we had in mind when we articulated MGTOW and put the ideas out into the online world to catch on with men, eh?

Zed

Yup! ;)
Men want to go their own way – so that’s it – MGTOW! :D
BTW hope you’re alright brother.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed September 30, 2010 at 08:22

Thanks, Ragnar. I’m hanging in there. My goal for several years has been that when civilization collapses and people turn to cannibalism I will be left alone because I will be too tough to chew. So far, so good. ;)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Ragnar September 30, 2010 at 09:13

Good to hear Zed.
Would love to have a barbecue with you one day, but not as the main course. :D
I’m planning to cast away and sail when the thing comes tumbling down. Hope my health still allow that. No major illnesses, but I’m just getting older.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
hurleyhacker October 2, 2010 at 08:13

Hard drive crashed. I’m back.

Well done Paul!!!!

Yes, the post-disenfranchised male has a new role and objective. Completely withdraw from femiocracy.

I do not believe in the “Age of Aquariaus” but the similarities are becoming very eerie. “Age of Aquariaus” December 21st. 2012 is symbolic with a Nymph pouring a vial of water on a mountain top. The water goes its own way. Everybody has their own direction. Mass government withdrawal and a return to self sufficiency ( if there ever was one). Since I withdrew 3 years ago and stopped suppporting my own destruction my life has prospered and I have become the man I was always trying to be. Without Womyn.

Paul is correct that it will burn. We will lite small fires to government institutions and we will all watch them burn . The local constabulary will passively watch as no people get hurt. This is happening in Detroit now and for many years. Just renewal of our individual selves. We will

teach a new generation hungry for the will and knowledge that has been corrupted and denied for over 50 years.

Withdraw , teach, go your own way . We do not need an organizartion to tell us we need to do it our own way.

Well done Paul!!!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
hurleyhacker October 2, 2010 at 08:14

Ragnar,

I am ready to buy my boat for the same reason. I am getting closer. Let me know your timetable.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Graig December 23, 2012 at 18:39

I have read so many articles or reviews about the blogger lovers however
this piece of writing is actually a pleasant piece of writing, keep it up.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

Leave a Comment

{ 4 trackbacks }

Previous post:

Next post: