By Christopher Quinn
In order for the men’s rights movement to go mainstream it needs a Spartacus who will lead the oppressed in fighting their oppressors
The men’s rights movement has made great progress in recent years, but the movement has not gone mainstream. There have been no major demonstrations, no real coverage in the mainstream media, and no best-selling book that has caught the attention of the general population. Until this happens, the movement will only be able to gain limited ground. What the men’s rights movement needs is a Spartacus. The historical Spartacus was a man who emerged from the crowd to lead a revolt against his oppressors and fought for the rights of his people. While the men’s rights movement may not need a single leader, it does need a man who can communicate the message of the men’s rights movement in a way that will persuade the rest of society that our cause is just.
The real Spartacus was a Roman slave who demanded freedom for himself, and the end of all slavery, in Ancient Rome. Spartacus was from Thrace, which was an area of modern day Greece and Bulgaria that was part of the Roman Empire. Spartacus was not born a slave; he was either a Roman soldier or was taken captive by Roman soldiers, and was condemned to slavery. Once a slave, he was be trained as a gladiator. Gladiators were a special class of slaves who were forced to fight each other in Roman arenas to entertain the public. The gladiators received rigorous training in special schools, and were treated cruelly by their captors.
In about 73 B.C., Spartacus and approximately seventy other gladiators escaped from a gladiator school using stolen kitchen tools to fight their captors. Once free, the men chose Spartacus and two other escaped gladiators, named Crixus and Oenamus, as their leaders, and took up a position on Mount Vesuvius. Spartacus and his men held their position on Mount Vesuvius and won battles against the professional Roman army. They inspired more slaves and local peasants with a grudge against Rome to join their cause, and their numbers grew to between 70,000 and 100,000 men.
Spartacus was apparently a brilliant military leader, using clever tactics to outwit the Roman commanders. Slaves had rebelled before, and eventually been defeated. In fact, Spartacus and his men mounted what became a full-scale war that is now known as the Second Servile War – essentially a civil war within the Empire in which the underclass attempted to overthrow Roman rule. The Roman Senate attempted to stop this slave rebellion and sent eight Roman legions, about 40,000 to 50,000 soldiers, to defeat the slaves. After successfully holding their own against the Romans, the Senate sent reinforcements. Spartacus’ men made a last stand, and suffered their defeat. Most were killed on the battlefield. It is believed that Spartacus himself died while attempting to take down the Roman general, Crassus. The remainders of the slave army fled, and were hunted down by the Romans. Some likely escaped, but over 6,000 slaves were caught and crucified along the road leading to Rome as a warning sign to others.
In truth, we don’t know what Spartacus’ motives really were. Some historians believe that he was simply trying to win freedom for himself and his men, and escape from the Romans over the Alps and into Europe. Others interpret Spartacus’ actions as an attempt to reform all of Roman society and abolish slavery in Rome. Whatever his goals may have been, Spartacus ultimately failed. Slavery continued after Spartacus’ death, and Roman society went on to force men to kill each other as gladiators for another 477 years, when the gladiator games were finally banned in 404 A.D. However, Spartacus has become a symbol for the lone man who leads the oppressed in fighting their oppressor.
A Spartacus is needed to transition the men’s rights movement into the mainstream so that it can achieve the broad support of the public. Although forces have been gathering against men for years, the men’s rights movement developed because of the anger and frustration of men who felt the discrimination for the first time. These men, who were busy working and taking care of their families, suddenly realized that they were not in control of their destinies anymore – the courts were, and their wives were. As more men became frustrated with their new second-class citizen status, they joined the men’s rights movement. However, they are still only a small percentage of the population. Most of the population is not even remotely aware that a men’s rights movement exists. To most people that are aware of men’s issues, the men’s rights movement likely consists of a man dressing up as Batman or Spiderman while protesting a family court decision. Activism such as this will get media attention, but the average man is not going to join in that activity, and the public, the legislatures, and the courts don’t take these protests seriously.
Most men understand the problems that men face on some level, but they do nothing about it. Some men don’t speak up because they fear disagreeing with women, preferring to play it safe. Some men may be cowed into submission, fearing that they can’t win the argument. Some men actually advocate feminism without truly understanding feminism’s hostility to men.
What the men’s movement needs is someone who can find a way to make it acceptable for all men to state their grievances. Surely, men’s rights organizations are having some success, particularly involving father’s rights by lobbying state legislatures for shared parenting bills and challenging outrageous increases in child support obligations set by the courts. These groups are doing fine work and will surely continue to make progress on these fronts. The Tea Party Movement is proof that a leaderless movement can work, but even the Tea Party has some figures who articulate the movement’s ideas. Sarah Palin and Glen Beck may not be the leaders of the Tea Party, but they are prominent figures who articulate the movement’s message to the public.
This is what the men’s rights movement needs. If the movement does not find some individual to be our Spartacus, the men’s rights movement will go on achieving successes, but in a limited way. For the men’s rights movement to go mainstream and achieve the society altering changes that men deserve, the movement needs a Spartacus.
{ 109 comments… read them below or add one }
I believe you must start by attracting young man teaching about game and than slowly showing them the bigger picture of contemporary misandry and the feminist matrix that has entangled our world. This is what I try to do now.
Also every one of you must stop paying females any money.
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We are now going to have several dozen commenters respond by posting, “I’M SPARTACUS!”, aren’t we? Let me brace myself…
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Nice piece, you got together a very attractive view to our manly way of seeing things, and a real need about evolution in our movement.
I would post some random thoughts.
1. Who was the Spartacus of the feminists? Does exists such figure? I do not know (I am really asking this information), for me, it happened all when they got the right to vote and their sheep-flock-like natural behavior did the rest. Every stupid female goes in front of a camera, from the housewife to the business woman, and every stupidity they spit becomes law or common sense.
2. If you state we do not know the real motives of Spartacus, well I do ot understand the question. He was a slave, he suffered, the saw cruelty against his land and his fellows, what do you want more? I do not see so much need to make philosphis considerations. At today, I would think enough to do what he did, for example, a parking ticket. This not for saying I have the strength or the courage, but for saying what is the moral stature I see the institutions of today. I think (and I hope) many will agree.
3. And if a Spartacus is not needed? As above in the point 1, ad as I already written a list of pratical suggestions (not buy female written book/movies, or from female owned companies and so), is it possible a little push could make the empire collapse? Remeber, the feminist empire is huge and powerful, but anyway rotten in its soul. It is strong because we are all closed in this cage called planet Earth (and I say that in a sad way, thinking of all the beautiful things there were in nature). A little step is the declinig rate of marriages and births. Everyone in the empire notices but no one understands.
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I have to disagree. We don’t need a Spartacus because we have explained our grievances to women and as usual when trying to reason with a woman it is a waste of time. The best thing to do is not ever marry an AW period. Don’t do business with any women don’t date any AW. Don’t engage AW in any way ever again period. Whenever you see a commercial on tv insulting men don’t buy that product ever again period, no excpetions. This is the only way to take away their feminist power. No marriage means no child support, no alimony and no empowering them.
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I am NOT Spartacus. Nor do I think we need one. Quite the contrary, there have already been countless unnamed martyrs to this cause, though they didn’t know it. There are more every day, led to destruction by the manifestations of misandry in places like family court. They died for nothing- and they died stupidly.
The mainstream is inaccessable to us, and for what it is worth, it is not really needed in order for men to do a lot better than they are doing.
Our movements success or failure won’t be measured in lawsuits, getting bills passed or putting on shrill tirades in front of cameras for the dimwitted sensibilities of mainstream consumers. Remember that, at least in America, the average person is stupid enough to view politics as usual as though it were a wrestling match. Their guy is the good guy and really smart people vote the way they do. Pass the popcorn and remember to vote for the corrupt scumbag of your choice.
Any political movement in western culture that counts on the general population being intelligent, knowledgeable, fair, or for that matter, anything but shallow and self serving, is truly in deep shit. So to the extent that the MRM, which requires intelligence and some sense of justice, seeks any momentum based on society’s “good intent,” we will be wasting our time.
Whether the MSM ever recognizes the MRM or not, it is still happening. And for it to gain mainstream acceptance, it would have to be watered (and dumbed) down enough for the mainstream palate.
I think we are better off growing the subculture, and leaving the mainstream to Lady Gaga, reality TV and the polemic freakshow we call modern politics.
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A Spartacus?
How can such a fragmented movement as this ever have a “single point of contact” ? Arguably, Glenn Sacks and Warren Farrell (esp Mr. Sacks who is much more active) and maybe Marc Angelucci of NCFM are the faces of the “movement”. Yet they -while being brave and smart, and even accomplishing things in the real world- have never achieved mainstream popularity, and more to the point, quite a few men on this forum would probably not want to follow them – they are not radical or masculine enough for some here.
I’m not really sure one is needed: in some ways our decentralization is our strength. And one cannot be seen as “waging a war on women”. Still, if I had to bet on a Spartacus it would be someone standing up for those falsely accused and convicted because that is the one area of this society where blinders and prejudice most openly (men’s oppression is mostly quiet laws and things that affect one individual at a time and aren’t publicized; this is different)result in sexist oppression of men. The guy who runs the False Rape Society website is sort of like what I’m thinking of as a Spartacus, but he prefers or needs to play behind the scenes. Someone more open, perhaps.
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Let’s not forget Marc Rudov.
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Spartacus and his followers were perfectly aware that they were slaves. Most men in America are under the illusion that they are free.
The Romans knew that their lives were great. Whereas women in America use the “victim card” every chance they get.
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Paul, don’t get me wrong. I respect you and I respect what you do. But what is it that you hope to accomplish? I’ve read several posts (although far from everything you’ve written, so if I’m missing something I sincerely apologize.) and I never seem to see any solutions. You wrote:
“Our movements success or failure won’t be measured in lawsuits, getting bills passed or putting on shrill tirades in front of cameras for the dimwitted sensibilities of mainstream consumers.”
So what, exactly will our movements success or failure be measured on? What IS needed for men to be doing a lot better than they’re doing? Because from my vantage point, we’re getting slaughtered. And while complaining to each other about all the injustice might make us feel better, it doesn’t seem to be doing a whole lot.
I completely agree that the general population is shallow and self serving. They’re going to support what’s in their own best interest. But in my opinion, that works to our advantage.
How is it in any man’s best interest to know that if he does decide that he wants to marry a woman and raise a family, there’s a good chance it’s going to end in divorce. At which point he will be completely and totally raped of a good portion of everything he owns, a large chunk of every dollar he’s going to make for the foreseeable future, and the right to raise his own children?
How is it in any man’s best interest to know that there’s a good chance that he’s going to be passed over for promotion for a less qualified woman simply because he was born with a penis?
How is it in any man’s best interest for him to know that at any time all his significant other has to do is point her finger and have him hauled off to jail? No evidence. All she has to do is say “He abused me.”
And as far as women go, I think there are a lot of them who are also starting to wake up to the fact that feminism hasn’t been good for them either. Marriage IS fast becoming a thing of the past. They’re starting to realize that they’ve made it so unattractive to the average guy that they’re gonna’ have problems finding a husband. And I don’t even know how many women I’ve heard complaining about the lack of “real men”. They don’t appreciate the fact that society has raised a generation of spineless, cowering, pussy whipped sissies. They WANT men who aren’t afraid to stand up for themselves.
I know for a fact that there are millions of people, both men and women, out there who have serious issues with this. And they’d love the opportunity to do something about it. But they have no idea that the MRM even exists. For the most part, they don’t even realize there are people out there who feel the same way. Simply because everyone is so afraid of being ostracized for saying something they think is going to be unpopular.
It’s my sincere belief that if they actually SAW other people standing up and saying “enough”, then they would be more than happy to join in. At the very least, support political candidates who are brave enough to mention the fact that the “Emperor has no clothes”.
I was raised to believe that a huge part of being a man is standing up to injustice. And all of the things I mentioned above, as well as many others that I left out regarding the treatment of men in today’s society ARE injustices. So I say we do something about it. But to actually accomplish that, we need popular support. And a Spartacus….
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I’m Spartacus!
Just kidding.
Modern revolutions work different ways. For example (sorry for speaking home) hungarian revolution against the big russian bear in ’56 was decentralised enough. there was no free speech, but people felt that the level of injustice is too high to tolerate it anymore. And then they moved together., with the moral background knowing that the justice is on their side. I want to say that this moral ground is very important, maybe the most important part.
Let’s not forget that these are very rare moments, when people with different education, different lifegoals and background etc feel the same, and can act together for a common goal.
I’m not sure we need a “revolution” or a “civil war”, though.
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Hi Paul, how do you think we can change the laws without mainstream acceptance? A subculture can not do that.
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Saying we need a Spartacus, is barking up the wrong tree. I dont want blood n slaughter in the street, why not a Rambo then? LOL
Wanting a JFK or a Winston C would be far better.
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@ Travis,
I could have expanded on this more, and probably should have. I appreciate the good questions.
My reference to growing the subculture was not incidental. Our success and/or failure will be measured in the numbers of men that learn not to get married, and how to cover themselves in work and social situations.
If you don’t see solutions in what I write it is because I make rarely make any effort to spell anything out or offer direct advice. I think men do well with information, provided they are wired to learn from it. Most are not, and this is why I support the idea of a subculture of men who learn how to protect themselves from the system as it stands. And that means protecting themselves from women- as women are the tool the system uses to subjugate men.
To be more explicit about solutions, though, if a man is concerned (as he should be) about the pitfalls of family court- DON’T GET MARRIED. Don’t cohabitate. Don’t commit. Get a vasectomy and freeze your sperm. If you want a child, hire a surrogate. Sure, try to make the system safer. It’s laudable. But the safest thing to do right now is not participate.
There are a lot of other things men can learn to do as well- secret audio or video taping of their interactions with women, including sex. They can, if they want to, learn to ditch the bitches in their lives and learn to screen women to cull out the dangerous and deadweight.
I write on this stuff all the time. It IS solutions.
I think one of the things that is really hard for MRA’s to accept is that feminism “worked” so well as a social movement because our biology already had us in a system of giving women what they want, and blindly.
The MRM, as a political entity, is up against the exact opposite end of that power flow. I am doing a piece on this very subject now that should be done in a day or two, and I will submit it to Mr. Price for posting here, so I won’t go in to more than that now.
But I will say that in my opinon, the only meaningful immediate changes men can make on their own behalf is in how they see and deal with women. I would also say that most men will never get their heads out of their asses enough to do this. But sufficient numbers can that would support an active and robust subculture.
I appreciate the men working toward political and legal change. But I think their main value is in the fact that they reach some men and point out the flaws in the system, and hopefully prompt them to consider ways to protect themselves without waiting on politicians or lawyers to do it for them. I don’t see them getting anything really significant done in terms of law or politics anytime in the forseeable future.
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Its a good article, but Spartacus failed. Don’t know if we need him.
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I think there is room to affect pop culture, but it’s not going to be through argumentation… it’s going to be through an appeal to the emotions.
Not that I think this is something that should be done, but as a thought experiment, a skilled ad producer could make the MRM case in a 30 second Super Bowl commercial that tells the drama filled story of a 14 year old daughter and her father both discovering the heart breaking news that he was not actually her father. Portray them both as victims. Then end the commercial with a black screen with bold white letters: “Stop The Pain — Every child deserves mandatory paternity testing at birth”
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I’ve been at this a very long time, and over and over the years we hear big talk about needing a leader, a really good leader, unlike all the loser leaders we have had in the past. Leaders last an average of maybe 18 months, before they are shot out of the saddle by other men. If Spartacus had been an MRA, he wouldn’t have been killed by the Romans. He’d have been speared in the back by his fellow slaves. That’s the way it was 25 years ago in the MRM and nothing has changed.
The leaderless marriage strike is working. As good as anything will work.
Even if it does not bring the nation to its knees, it does free a lot of men from bondage, which is more than other form of activism has done.
Once in a while a man even throws a tantrum about the title, “marriage strike.” IT MUST BE CHANGED.” No matter it is a great title that everyone, even women, understands instantly. There is some trivial logical problem with the name, so we must change it to something complicated no one will understand without a 100,000 word explanation.
I have seen no information to convince me that once women take over it is possible to fix it internally. Sparta and the Roman Empire were eventually conquered after feminism took over.
Well, technically Sparta was not conquered but lost most of its wealth and most of its territory.
In the case of the marriage strike, remember in the 70′s, the big gasoline shortage was only something like 5 or 10%. Back in 20o4, at least 22% of men in the US said they would never marry. It will just take time for a larger number of women to have their Wile E. Coyote moment.
I was a public activist myself for 10 years. I could write a book about all that happened. If I did, 22 men would read it and 21 of them would find fault with it.
There are perhaps only a small number of men active on the Web, but there are a lot more men out there who feel as we do, but are invisible.
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I’ve been at this a very long time, and over and over the years we hear big talk about needing a leader, a really good leader, unlike all the loser leaders we have had in the past. Leaders last an average of maybe 18 months, before they are shot out of the saddle by other men. If Spartacus had been an MRA, he wouldn’t have been killed by the Romans. He’d have been speared in the back by his fellow slaves. That’s the way it was 25 years ago in the MRM and nothing has changed.
The leaderless marriage strike is working. As good as anything will work.
Even if it does not bring the nation to its knees, it does free a lot of men from bondage, which is more than other form of activism has done.
Once in a while a man even throws a tantrum about the title, “marriage strike.” IT MUST BE CHANGED.” No matter it is a great title that everyone, even women, understands instantly. There is some trivial logical problem with the name, so we must change it to something complicated no one will understand without a 100,000 word explanation.
I have seen no information to convince me that once women take over it is possible to fix it internally. Sparta and the Roman Empire were eventually conquered after feminism took over.
Well, technically Sparta was not conquered but lost most of its wealth and most of its territory.
In the case of the marriage strike, remember in the 70′s, the big gasoline shortage was only something like 5 or 10%. Back in 20o4, at least 22% of men in the US said they would never marry. It will just take time for a larger number of women to have their Wile E. Coyote moment.
I was a public activist myself for 10 years. I could write a book about all that happened. If I did, 22 men would read it and 21 of them would find fault with it.
There are perhaps only a small number of men active on the Web, but there are a lot more men out there who feel as we do, but are invisible.
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Umm … didn’t Spartacus lose? He was a great tactician, but a questionable strategist. He didn’t have the resources to overthrow the Roman war machine at its strongest. That would have required Ghengis Khan X 10. Sparky never crunched the numbers (logistics) and his results showed. His best strategy would have been to leave. And quietly live out his days raising cabbages, on the fringe of the Empire, like another famous Roman.
After the slave rebellion was put down the Empire went clicking along for another 500 years!!! Until eventually crashing from its own internal contradictions.
If you want to remain a Citizen, yet overthrow the Empire (paradox?), then do your part today to accelerate the cultural rot, a la 500 AD Roman style. The mightiest ship will sink when it takes on too much water, as history shows.
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It is uncomfortably dawning on me that we will always be margianalized if we continue to pose a threat to the ‘status quo.’
Tea Parties seems to be becoming c0-opted by agendas in the pursuit of power with women prominent.
Sad, because this will only divide the Right and give Democrats another 4 years to rip the constitution to shreds.
MRAs have the truth, but are unable to articulate it because the media dictates the framework. We need to outflank them the way hiphop did, you get me?
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One thing that always amused me (and irritated me a little) a few years back was how so many women that I knew at the time loved this one song called, “I Need A Hero” by Bonnie Tyler. I never met a man who liked that song; it was only women. And the reason why I think men didn’t like that song was because it’s an homage to passivity. “Please rescue me! Oh, and by the way, I have a bunch of requirements of my rescuer, and here they are…”
This column reminds me of that song. Don’t call for a hero. Be the change that you want to see in the world. YOU be the hero.
And now, I quote that stupid song for your reference. Yuck. Don’t let this be you:
“I Need a Hero” by Bonnie Tyler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY
Where have all the good men gone
and where are all the gods?
Where’s the streetwise Hercules to fight the rising odds?
Isn’t there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss
and I turn
and I dream of what I need.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the end of the night.
He’s gotta be strong
and he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the morning light.
He’s gotta be sure
and it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life!
larger than life.
Somewhere after midnight
in my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
there’s someone reaching back for me.
Racing on the thunder and rising with the heat
It’s gonna take a superman to sweep me off my feet.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the end of the night.
He’s gotta be strong
and he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the morning light.
He’s gotta be sure
and it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the end of the night.
Up where the mountains meet the heavens above
Out where the lightning splits the sea
I could swear there is someone
somewhere
watching me.
Through the wind
and the chill
and the rain
And the storm
and the flood
I can feel his approach like a fire in my blood.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the end of the night.
He’s gotta be strong and he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight.
I need a hero. I’m holding out for a hero ’til the morning light.
He’s gotta be sure
and it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life.
I need a hero. I’m hoXding out for a hero ’til the end of the night.
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P Elam: “women are the tool the system uses to subjugate men.”
This line rendered me gasping. If there ever was an expression to sum up everything the MRM is about, this would be it.
I am going to consider dropping this bomb at an upcoming harpie-fest I was corralled into attending. It is to celebrate the cousin’s wife getting a master’s degree in childrearing or some such crap.
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I think the biggest issue in terms of main stream media is the fact that it’s controlled by ‘the woman’ and they have a vested intrest in maintaining the status quo and the fact that when you tell the average guy about the current situation, it sounds alarmist.
I hate to say it, but the MSM has been doing a very good job at promoting their pro-woman/anti-male propaganda because both men and women buy it virtually wholesale, hook, line, and sinker. And that is exactly what it is, propaganda, but that word suggests some sort of 1984 type of dystopian existance which anyone would most likely doubt initially. When I tell some of the younger guys I know what to watch out for, many scoff and pull the NAWALT card, thinking they will of course be different.
I’ve thought about it, long and hard, how does one deliver a message which is diametrically opposed to what the media is constantly pumping through the airwaves. I have to agree with Paul Elam, I think the best way is to use the media we do have and spread the word to any who will listen. I’ve gotten two guys so far to watch their backs, word of mouth and pointing them to the MRA websites still can prepare them for the future.
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Excellent points. I’ve found myself wrestling with the questions of leadership and organization lately.
On the one hand, being disorganized has advantages. There is no central figure or manifesto to smear. The decentralized movement grows simply because feminism (and progressivism) fertilizes it with their bullshit. It is organic. Many men in my generation (the so-called Y) have joined the General Strike of Males without ever hearing about the MRM. We reject marriage 2.0 and instinctively see no advantage in contributing to society as men once did.
But there is also a danger –as with the Tea Part movement– of individuals co-opting our message and position. We see this even on the Spearhead forums. Men who step forward as self-proclaimed gurus, claiming that their particular (and nonsensical) vision of utopia is the only correct path for the movement. These of course, are only the minor assholes.
The real threat is from outsiders. Feminists are already beginning to use the divided state of the MRM to write their own definition of our movement –creating strawmen and black propaganda as they please. This undermines the legitimacy of our movement and pre-empts our true message.
The General Strike of Males is vital. From that, society will starve on the empty fruits of feminism and women will be brought to their knees by the burden of “empowerment”. But we also need books, we need media presence, and we need academics. (Lionel Tiger is the only one I know of.)
I think we need media/ propaganda initiatives of our own. campaigns to make mainstream men consciously aware of the blight they already feel. We need campaigns targeted at women ( meaning appeals to emotion and self-interest only) to renounce feminism and wholly reject its ideology.
Is a Spartacus needed? I don’t know and I feel bad for any poor bastard who gets the job. But I believe that any Spartacus will rise up by his merit. A leader is chosen by the men who will follow him.
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Travis,
Do what you are already doing. You have to remember these scumsuckers took the “long march” through culture. They were successful for the most part. When any organized movement emerges WACO happens. If the MRM “rises up” They will be “put down.”
The ruling class overlooked one aspect, production? Once they have consumed everything they will turn on each other. This is the point of organization, or this when men will establish the schwerpunkt, and drive through the cultural line.
We have men locked in marriage that are aware now. Some have probably told their wives, and have suffered for it. We have bachelors that will need much more than a heavy dose of vagina in order to lock themselves in. We have white knights getting killed by their damsels. We are even seeing powerful men cleaned out by women. This is where we are at.
If you want to get a feel for where the culture is, use game to get a girl’s attention, then plant the seeds in her mind. Guide the conversation innocuously towards false rape accusations, and other topics of interest. Do not go on the offensive, rather when she gives her predictable response give her a subtle taste of rejection. Allow your facial reactions to reveal your disgust, but say nothing at first. Let her talk, when she finally shuts up, take back over and guide the conversation to another point, do the same thing.
The key is getting her to feel rejection, letting her see your emotional reaction, and then never saying a word about your feelings. Also, don’t forget to let her know that you are attracted to her body, again through facial expression, not words. Words are for later.
Next time you see her, tell her how you are not getting married ever. Let her blab, and turn her into what women turn good men into. “The Nice Guy” Then walk away.
The above is activism. That girl will tell every other girl about her experience, no matter how she twists it it will be in reference to “how do I make him like me.” (assuming you didn’t go into hate mode)
Paul is right. The subculture is there, and the smarter women are beginning to nest in it. Grow the sub-culture. You can do it many ways. The above example is but one. Remember this, get women talking about something and soon everyone will know about.
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This is a constant theme that runs through the MRM, and it is also one of the exact reasons why the MRM seems to constantly be failing.
Everyone wants a “leader” in the same way that the Israelites demanded of God to provide them with a King, despite God’s warnings about it.
All that a leader will do is splinter this already splintered movement, and many of the “mainstream” MRM leaders out there, while putting out some good stuff, are still horribly under-educated about things such as propaganda, how to move the political spectrum in their favour and, basically, in growing a freaking pair and looking at life outside of the realm of “equality.”
One really good example is F. Roger Devlin’s criticism of Stephen Baskerville, near the end of Devlin’s essay “Rotating Polyandry – And Its Enforcers.” Devlin suggests that perhaps the only true solution is a complete return to assumed father custody… and then Devlin notes that Baskerville (a visible MRM figure) considers this idea to be “too radical” and will only find acceptance amongst the “political fringe.” Devlin counters that Baskerville doesn’t seem to understand the POINT of activism is to MOVE the political fringe into widespread acceptance. Further, Devlin goes on, why is it such a “radical pie in the sky” idea for Men to actively push for assumed father custody when it is something that has existed in our culture for thousands of years before? As Devlin notes, it was certainly far more of a stretch a couple of decades ago, for two gay men to declare they wished to be married and have children together, and for the 4% of the population that actually is gay, to be taken seriously today in all aspects of society. And yet, our “leaders” insist on placating the harpies and only being “reasonable.” In fact, many of them are still insisting that we write “reasonable and polite letters” to our elected officials – LOL!
And this is the problem that I find with most of the “leaders.” Warren Farrel, for example, has put out gobs of good stuff, but there is no way in hell I would follow a guy like him, born of the feminist industry at its zenith of insanity during the 1970′s, his ultimate solution is that men and women should androgynyze EVEN MORE! How is this guy any different than fembots? Farrel does not believe that men should be men, and women should be women, but rather they should become more alike, rather than focus on how their strengths, while different, compliment eachother. Farrel has lots of things “right”… except for his solutions.
Half baked solutions that are “acceptable” to the public are, guess what, still half baked solutions. An internal combustion engine is what it is. It needs gasoline or something else combustible to run… you can’t just put water into the tank because it is “environmentally acceptable” and expect things to be hunky dory, which is what all of these “half baked solutions” to men’s problems are proposing.
At any rate, I find it frustrating that so many – including the plethora of “Proto-Mra’s” who illustrate a total cluelessness to the POINT of a “movement,” which is to MOVE the political fringe into the mainstream!
Uprisings and revolutions and violence are orchestrated FOR THIS PURPOSE – to move the political opinions of the general populace in a certain direction/acceptance of a new or different model of society.
Lenin used violence in the Soviet Union… sure, he wanted to get rid of his enemies, and so he killed them – but that was really a secondary goal. His primary goal was to MOVE the political ideas of the general population by INTIMIDATING them with what he had done (used violence).
The gays sent death threats and threw rocks through the windows of the American Psychological Association in the 1970′s when the APA declared that homosexuality was a sexual deviancy. The point however, was not to directly harm those psychologists inside the building itself, but rather to send a message to the entirety of society that people will PAY for criticizing gays. The APA has never criticized them again, and in fact now supports them, because they are cowards. THIS is how “activism” is supposed to work. Uprisings and demonstrations are USELESS unless they move the political fringe into the mainstream.
10,000 men could band together and have a great uprising, and the next morning, when the blood of those 10,000 men are washing the sewers of the streets, if the general public is not informed of what happened, it was all for naught, because the political fringe did not move for lack of exposure.
So, one has to get the concept of previous “movements” out of our heads. There is never going to be a mass uprising of men against women – It is against human nature. Waiting for Spartacus to show up to lead this mass uprising is probably the only thing more foolish than waiting for the uprising.
There will also never be a movement of adults against children either – it is contrary to human nature, so I wouldn’t expect such a thing anytime soon.
However, this does not mean that society will not begin to understand things, which also moves the political fringe. Just because there is no “anti-child movement” does not mean that it is impossible to create within society, a feeling that government intrusion into the family, must be curtailed or people will stop having children, and to have such “movements” become very powerful.
This is the realm that the MRM exists within. There is no fucking “Proto-MRM”, although, I will agree that there certainly are Proto-MRA’s. I know of a few personally.
The goal of the MRM is to move the political fringe – to move our radical ideas into the mainstream. Whether this is done through violence, uprising, argumentation/debate, batman suits on Buckingham Palace, or whatever else, they all follow one common goal – and it is not finding a leader and becoming a “real movement” but rather, they shift the public’s perceptions about an issue, and mainstream those issues.
Whatever way you can shift the political fringe is indeed a “movement”, and our memes ARE becoming more and more mainstream, thanks to the internet, and our most radical of ideas only 5 years ago, are now already becoming much more acceptable topics of discussion in society… so in that sense, the MRM has been somewhat successful in moving the fringe, and this is what we ought to continue to do.
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@ Paul
Any political movement in western culture
that counts on the general population being intelligent, knowledgeable, fair,
or for that matter, anything but shallow and self serving,
is truly in deep shit.
Poetry.
Just beautiful.
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@Paul
“women are the tool the system uses to subjugate men.”
Brilliant.
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@Paul
“women are the tool the system uses to subjugate men.”
Brilliant.
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In the end, Spartacus was vanquished and he, along with thousands of other slaves were crucified. Their bodies were left there to rot so everybody could see the power of Rome.
A modern day Spartacus would be killed in no time flat by your own government. And that might even kill the men’s movement.
I think the marriage strike is a first step in the right direction. It has to be complemented with a reproduction strike.
And then there is yet another weapon at our disposal: work strike!
Meaning each man cuts down on his work hours, share a job or generally speaking reduces his output a considerable degree. America was founded upon the VERY hard labor of men: it can be taken to its knees by doing just the reverse. And it is peaceful.
A big drop in births that would last only 5 to 10 years would do much more than street fights and riots.
The MRM is fluid: it consists of a huge army of ones, each going his own way. There is no way to control such a crowd, as there is no known leader but millions of individual leaders: men who take the leadership of their own lives.
A Spartacus would focus all the forces against the movement and would do us no good. We need to proceed with stealth, in a ghostly way.
It’s impossible to win again a force so fluid as an army of ones.
Think of the Vietnam war where each U.S. soldier was targetted individually. We are to modern day Viet cong.
The maquis is, I think, our best position. Our enemy has to fight an invisible, unmaterial force that will cost them untold amount of dollars.
We can sink the system completely simply by doing… nothing. The power of inertia.
Expatriation is yet another way to fight the battle. If you want to overcome an enemy, drain him of his blood.
Just imagine if there were only part time firemen, part time police, part time workers, each cutting down expenses to survive on a small revenue. Where would the government get its money from? The higher wage earners: women.
About ten years ago, I predicted to myself that women would carry most of the the weight of the world upon their shoulders. It is beginning to happen.
That in itself is already a victory: you can live well AND NOT bust your ass. Leave it to Beaver…..
Isn’t that sweet revenge?
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Who Will be Our Spartacus?
Nobody. We are not able to stop replying to Skadi, let alone to get any foothold to the mainstream media.
Luckily, we don’t need a Spartacus. We don’t need a political movement. The only thing we need is to stop marrying American women and this happens more and more.
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Outstanding commentary, Paul. You and I continue to be pretty much on the same page.
I’ve been kicking around the idea of writing something about the life cycle and stages an MRA goes through.
The first stage is the shock, anger, and frustration which comes from being slapped in the face with the fact that there is a problem. “Why doesn’t someone DO SOMETHING?!!?!?!”
The second stage is after they have gone through what irlandes (Anonymous age 68) describes and found themselves bleeding on the floor with a couple of dozen MRA daggers in his back. (WTF!?!?!? :0 ) He goes out then and spends some time in the “Army of One” stage like Rod Van Mechelen, Darren Blacksmith, Duncan Idaho, et al.
I think you and I have reached the third stage which I call the “Nelson Mandela” stage – we sit in a prison of social conditions that almost no one understands and almost everyone denies and watch the social changes occurring in the belief that cultural drift will eventually accomplish what direct action cannot.
With your background in chemical dependency I am sure you are aware of the derisive term “two stepper” – jumping directly from the first dawning of awareness of the problem to proclaiming that one has the solution to it for all. When those who have not studied history inevitably repeat it, after a few months they get burned out (or find some new tail) and quit. As we well know, most MRAs are just one blow job from turning back into a mangina.
All that being said, I think there is a lot of value in examining the story of Spartacus, as well as its appearance here, for its implications for men and what those of us who show up here want to accomplish.
The idea of a champion or a “messiah” showing up to lead us out of our bondage is very old, very common, and very compelling. However, any mention of the story of Spartacus also has to consider the men who submitted themselves to his leadership, followed him, and if they survived the Roman legions got crucified as a reward for their insolence. We can’t even get most guys to put down the remote and turn off their Tell-A-Vision – expecting them to go along with getting crucified is a bit much to expect under the circumstances.
In fact we have had a potential “Spartacus” in just the past few months – Raoul Moat. He revolted against the system, went on a real-life, televised, version of Logan’s Run, and was executed by the modern day legions. How many joined him and stood up and said “No, I am Raoul Moat”? One day he might rise to the folk hero status of Ned Kelly, but most likely he won’t even end up as a footnote.
In looking at the applicability of the story of Spartacus to our situation today, there are several key points –
1. He lost.
2. The slaves who followed him were punished in the most brutal manner possible to instill fear in the populace against EVER trying anything like that again. (Does anyone hear echoes of so-called “MRAs” saying “Tone down the rhetoric, guys. We don’t want them to call us ‘misogynists’!”) Ruby Ridge and Waco are examples of modern day crucifixions.
3. The PTW (Powers That Were) threw everything they had against the insolent upstarts. The 40,000 – 50,000 lackeys of the establishment were just fine with slaughtering other men who represented a threat to their own comfy station in life.
4. Spartacus was already a trained warrior.
5. The practice which the uprising was against continued for another 329 years – when cultural drift actually changed it.
So what men seem to want, is not a Spartacus who starts an uprising now which will result in a change in the year 2340, but either a Moses to lead us out of our bondage (without that inconvenient detail of having to spend 40 years in the wilderness) or a David to come up with the magic bullet, plink the Goliath of feminism between the eyes and have it drop dead. I’ll put $1 on a lottery ticket of the chances of that happening, but no more.
What I, and it seems you, think the MRM NEEDS is some guy with no name that anyone remembers standing on the deck of the Titanic saying “It is womenandchildren first, and after that it is EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF, so here is how we get busy tearing up decking planks and building ourselves liferafts so we don’t drown.”
As long as we wait for someone else to appear and save us we are following the strategy of FEMININE-ism – which does work for women, because it is a woman’s strategy, but will never work for men.
I quoted you in my reply to single dad in another thread – rather than waiting until everything changes in order for my life to be OK, I am going to seize every tiny scrap of control of my own life that I can and force them to come take it out of my “cold dead hands” if they want it that badly.
And all a man has to do is simply never give his consent to them to turn him into cannon fodder.
“Take that white feather and shove it where the sun don’t shine!!”
“Yup, you’re right, I’m not a “RealMan(tm)”. I’m living as an UNreal man while I work on becoming a SURREAL man.”
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I can appreciate the passion and romance of a glorious leader coming forward, but let’s put this into some context. You’re talking about mounting a campaign against WOMEN!
The mass of men are divided into two primary camps; those with sisters and daughters that want the best for them, and those who don’t think women are worth fighting over. In other words, the progressive/mangina type and the macho “I don’t give a damn!” type.
What you want is happening right now before your very eyes, as Elam alluded. It may seem like a snails pace for the erstwhile impatient young man, but its happening. Society is slowly breaking down due to lack of male leadership, to the point it can’t go unnoticed any longer.
It might be small tipping points along the way like now, or eventually one large one, like a break-out movie or book or news event. There are huge swaths of men who have no idea a MRM exists, but yet they’re participating in it and don’t even know it. It’s not a club, an organization or a “party”. It’s an idealogy, that’s catching on like a wild fire through the internet. People are starting to listen.
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One thing that always amused me (and irritated me a little) a few years back was how so many women that I knew at the time loved this one song called, “I Need A Hero” by Bonnie Tyler.
LOL I always hated that song. I think I was 13 or so when that was out (sorry to break it to you, but that was a bit more than “a few” years back! Or maybe sorry to break it to me…)
Love, A Woman.
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We would all be unified if we just stood behind Manhood Academy. they actually have their shit together and show us all what a REAL leader is.
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There’s a minor math error in the text – 73 B.C. to 404 A.D. is more than 329 years, it’s about 477 years.
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It is a total waste of resources to try and find a Spartacus to cure a single cell of a diseased organism. You have to fight the disease or it will ultimately kill the organism.
Feminism is not an isolated phenomenon. It is part of irrationality and collectivism, a part of a much larger problem.
Until men understand this and decide to fight the disease and not a single symptom, we will remain powerless.
We need to go back to rationality, and Capitalism.
Feminism is one branch, one cult, of the religion of collectivism.
You don’t fight a religion by fighting one single church. You have to extinguish the whole. Otherwise, when you least expect it the problem will start growing again.
When firefighters combat a blaze they don’t stop until there’s no more fire.
Pretending to fight feminism while ignoring the larger picture is like fighting a house fire by extinguishing one single burning pillow.
Stupid is the least you can call it.
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We don’t need a Spartacus.
We need anonymous.
Anonymous is the future. No face, no identity, no ties. Anonymous’ only weapon is the validity of their argument and how well it resonates with those around it.
When they ask WHO IS ANONYMOUS! No one will answer.
And instead of being strung up on crosses and left to die, anonymous will keep going as long as the idea lives and is true.
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The scene that comes to mind is the one where they all claim to be “Spartacus”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q
There have already been too many men who have stood up. The first one that comes to mind:
A college professor (a woman) said, “All men are good for is f**king and running over with a truck”.
A male colleague of hers took a stand and took action against her. That was in the 90′s sometime. He is Spartacus
Spartacus’s are everywhere – look at the number of growing sites. Men are taking stands against this more and more. Even men who simply refuse to get married because it is a lose-lose prop for men and a win-win prop for women – are Spartacus!
The man who leaves a date because he is being treated like a foot-stool:
He’s Spartacus!
So, a Spartacus is not needed – there have already been tons.
Funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FYGmMzwJRA
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MRAs have the truth, but are unable to articulate it because the media dictates the framework. We need to outflank them the way hiphop did, you get me? — Lovekraft
This is a very profound insight, Lovekraft. One of the reasons men have been getting their asses handed to them is because we have let the enemy define the terms of engagement.
In this sense, we obligate ourselves to use their definitions and terms in our language, and adhere to their values as “right” while apologizing for our own values.
I have tried to get this point across several times now, that one of the most effective, and simple things that we can do right now is to redefine the debate on our own terms.
Our opponents did it, and we simply refuse to do it back to them, even though we are keyboard warriors and our only weapons are our words, we seem awfully reluctant to pick up the sharpening stone and use it on our own language & terms.
If the enemy defines the terms of engagement, you can bet on it that you are going to get your asses handed to you… so why continue to play the game by their terms, rather than making up our own, and framing the debate in ways advantageous to ourselves?
We could easily begin to use word-association to mentally wear down the populace and have them accept our ideas. How do you think “The Personal is the Political” uprooted the values of the previous generations and allowed for widespread interference into the personal realm, was accomplished?
Why did the word “sex” (indicating only Male & Female) get replaced with the word “gender,” allowing for dialectical expansion by including M/F/B/G/L/T as “equal” in identifying sexuality?
Why do people defending the family have to say they defend the “Traditional Family,” instantly shooting themselves in the foot, because by mentioning “traditional” you are automatically ceding ground, subconsciously, that there are indeed, other families besides the “traditional.” Half the fight has been lost simply because those defending “traditional” values are fighting a match where their opponent wrote all the rules.
Something the MRM could do right now is to stop talking in their terms and create our own!
We should always be referring to things “Traditional Rape” rather than simply “rape,” so that subconsciously the populace gets the idea that there are, indeed, other types of rapes than the traditional. And those other types of rapes ought to be defined by us as “Lesser Rapes.”
The word association with this is powerful propaganda, because it reaches outside of the realm of those who are directly interested in the issues. This is what propaganda is supposed to do – it is supposed to affect the opinions of those who are not really interested in the issues.
The vast majority of men will never spend the time online that most of us do, studying and arguing about issues that many find mundane until they come home one day to a Dear John Letter. Thus, most men will not magically come to embrace our ideas unless they become more mainstream – most people choose to go along with the group unquestioningly.
However, if words like “Traditional Rape” and “Lesser Rapes” become commonplace in society’s language, by default this has a psychological effect on the greater population – and that effect will be beneficial for us, because word association will automatically expand the recipients mind – forcing him to realize that “not all rapes are equal.”
This is exactly the way that society was convinced to accept the screwed up ideas of feminism in the first place – by severe language manipulation, also known as propaganda.
They simply redefined the terms of the debate to give them and enormous advantage. Identifying the Lesser Rape called “Date Rape” as the equivalent of Traditional Rape was one of the ways they attacked us – insinuating that Lesser Rapes are exactly the same as Traditional Rape.
We can do the same thing, and relatively easily too, because get this – we are keyboard warriors and all we really are using is words anyways.
Is it really that much harder to type “Traditional Rape” rather than simply “rape” in order to start using this tool of political activism? It would be pretty simple, I think, for us to start redefining the terms of the debate, with the hopes of word associating our ideas and reaching those outside of our regular circles.
He who defines the terms of the debate, has the upper hand the whole way through.
There are many tools like this at our disposal (Another theory called “Repressive Tolerance” is a biggie that we could alter for our purposes), that are suitable for use online, and have enormous potential to help our cause… should we choose to actually use them.
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Good catch, Nemo.
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That was my intended message for this piece –
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/13/upping-mra-game-honing-our-rhetoric-of-ridicule/
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Walter said:
The best thing to do is not ever marry an AW period. Don’t do business with any women don’t date any AW. Don’t engage AW in any way ever again period. Whenever you see a commercial on tv insulting men don’t buy that product ever again period, no exceptions. This is the only way to take away their feminist power. No marriage means no child support, no alimony and no empowering them.
Totally agree. This is the only way. Too many fractured factions within the MRM to come together. I for one am pro-abortion without having to pay for it of course but too many MRA’S rank this as their number one beef. I am not going to get into a debate on abortion because of just what I said. Factions are too entrenched in their beliefs. Walter’s idea has merit and I believe where we can come together. I had a hard time giving up Dairy Queen but anything for the cause. Got myself a vasectomy as well. Pushing government and the medical industry for a male contraceptive pill would also help. Sex without consequence sounds great to me and for God’s sake never live with them. Separate residences. No spousal or child support what power would they have?
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Q: Where’s the best spot to shoot Imperial Stormtroopers?
A: In the back.
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In the same spirit start referring to tax payers as “partial slaves” and voters as “consenting partial slaves” Don’t hesitate to include yourself in there. Force people to debate the benefits of partial slavery v chattel slavery. Then well, let them stand as an advocate of slavery. Just remember to define the terms.
The only way out of the land of Sophocles is through absurdity.
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@ zed
most MRAs are just one blow job from turning back into a mangina.
Damn. I just started keeping these great one-liners.
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@ Zed
100% right on the money, you are. I have more of a response, but I am incorporating it into my next article.
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Give me 500 willing men…a map of every major interstate-intersection-cloverleaf system in any major city in ( you pick the country ) enough cash to live on for a week and to compensate these men for lost work and inconveinces…500 old school buses with one MRM slogan and a verifiable statisical fact boldly painted on all sides..a twitter feed…I could reek financial devistastion thru grid lock for hours on end…by simply coming to a stop as a mass group, turning these buses completely side ways ,blocking all lanes, a once, on every entrance and exit . The best way to get pubicity is to hit them in the wallet thru civil disobedience. Just the look on the news ( pro or con ) would instantly make you a remember group to be feared. The government would be as helpless in this situation as it has made us. And like them, if they don’t start to back off…the cause would intensify…what I could do in one day, would take the movement years to accomplish…not for the faint heart, but an embargo of reverse effect…what comes around from the public senate at large, ( thru financially hateful laws ) …should be reversley placed back in the public a larges lap…
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The reality is most men would prefer not to know exactly just how fucked they could be or are. It’s like complaining about the weather; there’s nothing you can do about it.
You’re talking about deprogramming people from the propaganda of a facist like social engineering movement, on a grand scale. To stop what you’re doing and venture down the rabbit hole, (subjectively analyze women and their “movement”), is something that literally scares most men to death. They don’t want to know about it. They’re afraid they’ll learn to irrepairably HATE and RESENT women if they find out. These same men have girlfriends and wives and mothers and sisters and daughters. They’d prefer to cling to the illusions feminism has propogated. It’s safer and less painful that way.
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It’s getting so a guy could write a standardized response page to this whole ‘The MRM isn’t getting anywhere” thing…
Let me put this in perspective:
About 5 years ago, on Glenn Sacks’ blog, I advanced the idea that not only is Child Support unjust in most if not all cases, but that men should not only have the right to ‘male abortion’, but that it’s identical morally to a woman giving up a baby for adoption.
I was UNIVERSALLY panned for that remark, since we ‘don’t want to be too extreme’ in order to gain acceptance of our ideas. By universally, I mean Glenn himself wrote me to take issue with the posting. That post actually led to a rather heated exchange, to be honest.
Now? Now you see that exact sentiment being advanced in national columns on Mainstream Media pages. And taken seriously, I might add.
There are countless examples of MRM ideas filtering into general society. Frankly, I think it’s a GOOD thing that most people don’t know where these ideas are coming from, even if they agree with them. Hidden targets are much harder to hit.
But the idea that the MRM is accomplishing nothing is utterly laughable. We’ve already succeeded more than I ever hoped.
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Did you miss the point billybob?
A visible leader will sink us. Keep waiting around buddy, your savior will come to you when you are dead.
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Let add some perspective to your perspective.
Glenn Sacks is considered extreme by the MSM.
We’re battling the Flat Earth Society, without the benefit of Magellan.
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@ Factory
“But the idea that the MRM is accomplishing nothing is utterly laughable. We’ve already succeeded more than I ever hoped.”
You are absolutely right, I can only second that remark.
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When people say “we want a visible leader” what they are saying is:
“We want a guy to stand on front and catch all the bullets”.
I believe in the way of the Anonymous movement, because some things wouldn’t be said otherwise.
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The issue is honestly that the Media is dependent on Advertising revenue from their Clients who sell to Women. Women make 85% of Consumer purchasing decisions. As long as Advertisers fear the retribution of Women. The media will be hostile toward the needs of Men. Its about the $$$s gents.
Civil Disobedience, on a mass scale or worse. The most compelling tool is have no identifiable leader. Hence no target for them to remove or take out. Honestly the Feds could employ a Sniper to remove such a dangerous individual. Without a leader identified there is no target.
I do believe a Harper’s Ferry moment is coming between the folks who are tired of Nanny Government and the Statists. It will not be civil, pleasant or without bloodshed. There is already talk of some states seceding from the US.
The other scenario is economic collapse that will starve the Feminist Beast to death. When the Government cheese programs end, Feminism will be extinct.
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And, what they are saying when they say “The MRM isn’t getting anywhere” is:
“Why didn’t you guys solve the problem before I even became aware that it is a problem, and spare me the inconvenience of having to deal with it?”
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This movement is not mainstream so I don’t think the participants are the type of people who are dependant on leaders to tell them what to do and think. Of course there’s lots of disagreement. If anything, the larger problem is that the more widely known, potential leader types are overly sensitive. They get upset because someone disagrees with them about something or calls them a name. Big deal. People can work together on the things they agree on and to some extent on things they don’t agree on. You won’t get everyone to agree or work together on very much at all. People are gonna fight sometimes. I don’t think there’ll ever be an MRA Spartacus because the definition of an MRA is too broad and our experiences are too different. Maybe there could be a divorce law Spartacus or an education Spartacus because those are more focused areas where a large block of people may have very similar opinions.
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yes… his name is Paul Elam
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Yknow, I haven’t even been in the mrm for all that long, I trolled it for a couple of years, and often would find some mra thing here or there through non feminist related searches….but I keep hearing guys say that we need to stop the armchair activism and do real stuff and blah blah blah. And sometimes I agree, until I read what lovekraft above posted.
I completely overlooked that one small phrase and then saw the quote from Elam and it too took my breath away too.
Im going to borrow that phrase, hope you don’t mind, and start dropping it every where, even at random, in comments.
Do we need a spartacus? Hmmmm,
I AM SPARTACUS!!! no but really, will the real spartacus please stand up?
please stand up?
lulz
The best thing for the mrm would be a cultural breaking point like you saw in the civil rights movement, the anti war movements and so on in the 60′s.
Maybe if 80+ pissed off fathers get together and march and protest and then gunned down on camera by corrupt cops…well, then maybe people would start taking us seriously. But then again, when 18 n 19 yr old kids got shot down on college campuses it was kinda hard to call them a spineless loser with a small dick that can’t get laid who lives in their mothers basement…so maybe it wouldn’t help all that much.
I keep seeing a few guys talking about how we aren’t a monolithic group and being fractured and so on, which seems like a parody of feminist mob mentality. Where are these great divisions of mrmism? I see a few people disagree on things, which is how we refine our concepts to reach new truths. I see a little politics here or there, but then guys always jump up and say that neither party is pro man but instead pro woman. I see a few guys pop up here or there and talk about being ‘equalists’ or ‘egalitarians’ or ‘humanists’ and maybe their a little offput by our anger. But really those terms are nothing more than a feminist oriented dude questioning some aspects of feminism while feminist around him try to pull the wool over his eyes with PHMT type argument, or not all feminists are like that. These guys, ive known a few in real life, will wake up when they get a job and watch a coworker get fired over a womans word, not even a sex harassment claim is neccessary, just the threat of one and the employer will do the cost benefit analysis.
The thing is that we need to ask ourselves one question: Do we really want to be similiar to feminism as a movement or really any movement? I don’t think men will benefit all that much if we took control of the system. Hell, we might end up back where we were several hundred years ago with a male only judiciary that protects women AND men but at the COST of POOR men, who still have to die and sacrifice for the female herd. I don’t want that. I want the system gone, well with the only part of it being left is the part that actually recognizes my rights and allows me to have retribution through the courts…but even then, IDK. I would rather have freedom than pro-male slavery.
Also, it seems to me that this system is so broken that trying to fix it is a lost cause. You can’t put a band aid on a gushing head wound and have any real effect. I mean, if you pick a apple from a tree and notice it has a soft spot, you can take your knife and cut it in half, or cut away the bad parts. But if a worm has hollowed it out, well there is only so much you can cut away.
What I find interesting is that alot of what we complain about is covered in ‘natural rights’. ex/ father oriented custody. Well, if you start with the idea of protect and provide, which is argued to be natural to fathers, then the father has to have access and control over what he is supposed to protect and provide for. If we let the system collapse and then institute natural rights that are protected by what’s left of the state, the women won’t be able to use the police state to take away your kids and if they do you won’t have to pay or protect them.
I actually think that have a de-centralized movement like we do is the better course. With every man that learns game, questions the system or just sits around bitching and theorizing in mra comment sections, well we build a wall.
I like to imagine the mrm as a brick wall that is constantly being built. With every brick being laid ontop, well the foundation only gets stronger.
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There is a way to circumvent the feminist controlled media. Its called the internet and the Google index. Many of us have blogs or websites. By linking to each other U could rank higher in the search returns. Many people – at least in the US – are turning away from the media and using the Internet more to gain information / news. It is an oportunity to usurp feminist outlets such as Time Magazine or ABCNews.
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No Spartacus? No Spartacus? Did anyone here watch The Onion lately? Has Roissy been too subtle? Has Vox Day moderated his message? Has Fred Reed stopped drinking and ruminating? Does laughter, nervous or not, not immediately uproot any blurbly weeds of self-esteem running underneath the female subconscious? Did Chris Rock never exist? Did Dave Chapelle?
You’re only in danger of killing everything when you stop laughing at everything. Treat the entire world as a constant Mystery Science Theater 3000 event made for you to comment on and you can crush all silly feminist flybites before they cover the group in bland affirmation of the mediocre. As a bonus, you can soliloquize on actual men’s rights in the middle of the social narrative and get the message out to people who matter, while all the femmy lawyer-sharks will just think it’s another joke. Probably laugh at it too.
And if game works wonders on women, it works doubly well on would-be elephant seals.
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I began writing the following without reading the comments from others.
– Many changes have occured throughout the ages since the time of Spartacus, including the perception of slavery. Most men imprisoned today for domestic arrears are not shackled to perform forced unpaid labour upon the pain of death or torture. However, it still isn’t endearing nor just for many men to know that his future is virtually stolen from him by an arbitrarily imposed debt. A debt which can never be paid off for something he, in many cases, is not allowed to enjoy or participate in for something he did not instigate..
Incarceration over domestic related arrears presents itself as an updated form of slavery. Debtor’s prison ceased to be during the latter end of the 19th century. If “Progressives” truly believe that resurrecting debtor’s prison is an example of human improvement we really do need to have a good look at these people and their sphere of influence.
One other noticable change from the Spartacus era is the battle landscape of today in which to engage known destructive unreasoning regressive forces. Literal rocks and swords and spears are not the required instruments to fight with, yet other impliments provide a metaphoric similarity – education, words, repertoire, the pen, will and integrity combined to be both advancement and shield. In this regard, all men with passion for men’s issues can become the lead that is required. Many other men simply do not have the knowledge base and verbal sklls to counter the popular notions of mainstreamed feminism and those in the know would be there to instruct others.
However, having one man to be the center is an easy thing to ascribe on another man. ‘The leader’ would likely risk much more than the average man considering the dirty dealings already witnessed by many. But if one man should venture forth to risk it all it is within our sense of duty to know where he accurately stands and to provide him a measure of back-up, as well.
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@ Prometheus
Just spotted your question.
We may not be able to, especially given we won’t get mainstream acceptance. Some laws get passed without popular concensus, but I don’t think pro male legislation will be in that group.
Mind you, I think those laws should be passed, I just don’t think they will. Not in the forseeable future. I’d venture to suggest that the only hope we have of going mainstream is first the development of a subculuture.
IF it grows sufficiently, and that is a big if, then of course we can gain mainstream acceptance and take things wherever we want.
I am not holding my breath.
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I see that the “About” section has been rewritten and it sort of implies that maybe, possibly, just a little,to some degree or another and at some point in the future , we might actually want to consider something a little more active than venting.
And yes I understand that part of it is also about surviving.
No I’m not shaming I’m venting. That’s what we’re all about here right; venting and surviving. But while we’re venting and surviving maybe we’d like to delude ourselves into believing there’s something we can do about it all. So let’s play pretend.
If we had a leader what would he do?
If we had a MRM what would it do?
If we were part of a MRM what would we do?
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Some members may not like to hear this, but the Men’s Rights Movement has something in common with the NRA. Both are ridiculed and marginalized by the mainstream media, being portrayed as a bunch of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals with low intelligence, no culture, and strong tendencies toward violence.
The NRA’s Spartacus was Charlton Heston. He was very well-regarded during his acting career, and had received much praise, and an Oscar, for his work. He received a lot of criticism too: limited range, over-acting, and being overtly masculine, as if that’s a problem. The criticism got a lot louder after he joined the NRA as its leader. Frankly, he didn’t give a flying fork (watch those tines!) about the opinions of the mainstream media, but he knew exactly what to do to get publicity. He played them like a game guy plays his women. It made him the perfect leader for the NRA. Today, the NRA is a force to be reckoned with in national politics; hey, even liberal maven Hillary Clinton claimed she enjoyed duck hunting, with a rifle no less.
Who can be the Men’s Right Movement’s Spartacus, or your Charlton Heston? Is there someone famous out there, in the public eye, who believes strongly in men’s rights and is bold and brave enough to shout it from the mountain? A sports star? An actor? (Too bad James Bond, aka Sean Connery, lives in Scotland. Did you hear his response to Babwa Wawa about slapping women?)
And I hope to see sometime soon a Men’s Rights organization with a Big O. One that has membership rosters, officers, and membership fees, slick lobbyists, slick publications, and the “buying power” of millions of men. Like the NRA. Even, like the N.O.W. (ugh!). Obviously, being female I can’t help other than to keep flapping my jaws about Mens’ Rights = Good, feminism = shit. But I hope some of you can do it. When you decide to admit women, sign me up!
And in the spirit of full disclosure, I will admit – yes, I am a member of the NRA.
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@Doug
Paul does far more good than harm. We’re all trying to unplug from the matrix and see clearly. It’s a messy process.
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Has it? All I did was fix the characters that got screwed up by the WP 3.0 transition. Otherwise, it’s the exact same as it was before.
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@Doug – Paul does far more good than harm. He freaks out sometimes but this is a relatively small weakness. Angry Harry is the same way – he’s kind of fragile in a way but aside from that he’s a freakin hero.
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When I first got on to the spearhead I was amazed at the free writing and commenting. I was from the hisside blog of Glenn Sack’s. One of the things I tried to start was a discussion of an observation I had of the MRM being a multi front war. I believe that now more than ever. The people here have great ideas and powers of reasoning and thought some of the things you all have come up with are amazing. There is no one spartacus each area has it’s own spartacus. Paul Elam will frustrate and piss off a guy like me with his aproach and point of view. The mature and thinking man of me knows we are on the same side. And will back and support his message.
I don’t ever see a direct changing of laws to be in any way fair to men. For the guys involved in politics and law I would just like a focus on paternaty fraud. I would also like to see a big public push for a nonhormonal male birth control pill. An isreali doctor reseaching sterility in men has found a very good way to accomplish that. Those are my two big things I would want and I believe from there my son will be able to control his own life without relying on the good will of some cunt.
Other guys are into game. I like game it allows the man to take care of himself past his high sex drive years.Male birth control and protection from paternaty fraud can get a man through those extremely vulnerable years. Game also teaches young men to understand women and removes the pedistaling awe of women. What is going to help us is the government is going to double down on the misandry to make up the losses from the few we can educate. That is when the mangina and whiteknights start to really get slammed and will be good for further education. As men age the MGTOW techniques can be used and for men that didn’t make it through the young years unscathed we have the male gold digger techniques we can develope (game for over 45). Getting as many women as possible past child bearing and childless would work wonders on women as a whole. That kills two birds with one stone. First off woman don’t do shit for anybody.Don’t believe me ask any strong woman to discribe how she is strong and independent. What this means is a woman is only worth sex. A woman past child bearing is sexually worthless, she is worthless.She will look in the mirror and go nuts and then she will see and understand she is worthless and always has been. She will have no CS no entitlement from some sucker.The second bird slayed by the stone will be a man not chained and enslaved to the said woman. That will work wonders better than any bunch in the face or beating she could possibly get. I firmly believe the ultimate in game will be women with out our asking begging for laws to make it rational for a man to marry. I truely think it is possible but it will not be from one man or type of man or even one strategy. But all men understanding and knowing what is going on will be what it takes. I also believe we are almost to the point of rather than theorising the problem but theorising solutions or plans of attack.
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A question was asked and I have an answer that may actually work.
We don’t use the mainstream to change the laws we use the mainsteam to spread the message and educate men. To spread the word on the definitions of mangina and whiteknights and the ways men can avoid the misandry traps. They will then change the laws with out our asking. As you can see no man today will know freedom but with our work today ours sons will.
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I personally dont see this democracy thing ending well but I am pulling my ideas in reference to the Tea Parties. The government spends over half of the GDP and we have now added another entitlement in healthcare. The economy will begin to contract as our enemies will stop buying our debt. This will limit the ability of the US to project power abroad. I recommend the following:
1. Dont contribute too much to the economy. If you have to work, work at a job where you will meet women such as working at a bar.
2. Dont get an education, especially if you have to get into debt to do it. It wont increase your sexual access necessarily. Upperclass women in this country offer you nothing feminine except their bodies which you can get through alternative means anyways.
3. If you must get an education get an education that you can take to another country such as engineering or accounting.
4. I have posted this before and no one has really responded to it, but I think that great art can produce societal change. Satire has undone many a regime. Lets take this free speech thing as far as things will allow.
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“Who can be the Men’s Right Movement’s Spartacus, or your Charlton Heston?”
You had me until your, Kemo Sabe.
If you aren’t one of us, and refuse to identify with us… then why are you giving advice?
Are you one of them “proto” MRA’s?
Because they don’t have any more right to form the shape of the MRM than feminists do.
Either you are, or you aren’t.
If you aren’t an MRA, then why bother to criticize them?
This goes for you too, Fifth.
Either you are, or you aren’t.
Are you MRA, or are you Proto-MRA?
There is no half way.
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last comment was by Robert the Fedrz, btw – sorry, forgot to log in.
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I stand corrected. Maybe it’s the Spartacus theme or maybe it’s the beer. But it reads different a year later.
You do get my point don’t you? This is a great site I truly thank you for your efforts. But ask yourself; there aren’t as many men concerned about the issues on his site as there are gay activists concerned about their “right” to get married? How does 1.5% of the population get everything they want and 48.5% gets ignored? Who’s fault is that? If political action and movement tactics are so ineffective why do they work for everyone else? Do you really believe in the Illuminati conspiracy stuff and the wait till the world ends approach? Why do you make such an effort if it’s all just a matter of waiting till the cock roaches take over? I understand it’s partly a matter of surviving till the system changes. But you have no intention of doing anything to make it change? How much conciousness raising do we need before we do something?
Sorry for the bad spelling and grammar.
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I’m tempted to say “I’m Spartacus,” but if I’m going to set my sights high, its probably better if I just try to be the next Ron Jeremy.
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Dont mistake silence for fear.
Dont mistake the unseen for inaction.
Major mistakes.
Let ‘them’ believe that. Its very useful.
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Spartacus could simply be the next Charlie Sheen who decides to make a public stink about DV BS, or the first player to ask ” why should female reporters be allowed in the men’s locker room?” and takes it further. Maybe even a Tiger Woods that throws her ass in jail AND drops a few million our way to boot. We’re not talking blood here just public commitment.
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By universally, I mean Glenn himself wrote me to take issue with the posting. That post actually led to a rather heated exchange, to be honest.
Glenn Saks is not our friend. Acquaintance yes. Friend no.
He is over sensitive and takes umbrage with any constructive criticism.
I have had off line discussions with him as well and he not the person I would want to be our spokesperson.
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Rob September 23, 2010 at 18:56
last comment was by Robert the Fedrz, btw – sorry, forgot to log in
How does one log in on this board?
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Brilliant.
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Anonymous September 23, 2010 at 18:52
” ‘Who can be the Men’s Right Movement’s Spartacus, or your Charlton Heston?’ You had me until your, Kemo Sabe.
If you aren’t one of us, and refuse to identify with us… then why are you giving advice? Are you one of them “proto” MRA’s?”
Dude, what the f*** are you taling about with your “proto” shit. Yeah, I identify with the MRA, I AM one of the MRA, (although some of the posters here said I can’t be because I don’t have a dick and balls). I agitate like mad with all my worthless federal, state, and local officials, am in the face of every feminist I know telling them all they are worthless parasites, and have been trying to recruit my men colleagues and friends into the MRM. How the f*** did you read that I was “criticising” the movement??? I said I wanted to see it grow, get organized, get seen, get POWERFUL.
By the way, what exactly are YOU doing?
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Perhaps the subculture is already present? Hidden in the collective subconscious somewhere? The feminist veil of illusion hides the fact that actually just about every male (not all because there are those who actively plot against themselves in a kind self hatred) is a MRA, and nearly every female for that matter as well. It’s self-awareness is only present in the MRAs who are a few… just as the conscious mind is a small tip of the iceberg of the unconscious – but is nonetheless the most important and leading aspect. Perhaps it’s just the illusion of the historical continuum which is keeping this illusion going – an illusion which seems to be breaching.
Perhaps the idea is not to build a subculture but to find and unveil it. Can someone really change anyone else’s mind? Perhaps all we need to do is spread the word. Have a positive attitude – be patient – and never give up.
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BTW someone did post this video which is a MRM March in Mexico so…. There:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZcIL93nTOY
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Anonymous September 23, 2010 at 18:52
” ‘Who can be the Men’s Right Movement’s Spartacus, or your Charlton Heston?’ You had me until your, Kemo Sabe.
If you aren’t one of us, and refuse to identify with us… then why are you giving advice? Are you one of them “proto” MRA’s?”
Dude, what the f*** are you taling about with your “proto” shit. Yeah, I identify with the MRA, I AM one of the MRA, (although some of the posters here said I can’t be because I don’t have a dick and balls). I agitate like mad with all my worthless federal, state, and local officials, am in the face of every feminist I know telling them all they are worthless parasites, and have been trying to recruit my men colleagues and friends into the MRM. How the f*** did you read that I was “criticising” the movement??? I said I wanted to see it grow, get organized, get seen, get POWERFUL.
By the way, what exactly are YOU doing?
___________________________________________
Touche!
I was gunning for Fifth, and you got in the way.
Everyone else here knows the score.
My apologies. This has been going on for a while.
Although I will apologize to you personally, I will not retreat, and demand an answer of Fifth… is he a real MRA or a Proto One?
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P Elam: “women are the tool the system uses to subjugate men.”
That’s the first step.
Then comes children and family.
The trilogy of woman, HER child and HIS responsibility to ALL is the prison.
The way the tribe uses children to control everyone is at the centre of it all, as children are the tribe’s primary resource, its No.1 concern. All are tribal property.
Standing up, publicly, to all this is like painting a target on your head and handing out shells.
Stealth is the way to go. Its different for men who have children as they’re on the hook in a way that doesn’t effect single non-fathers. Its tough for them b/c they once believed in the whole charade and still sort of invested in it, which is why they want some real tangible change to the system.
l think any change will be gradual and prolly emerge from men forging a new culture of… going your own way. l think that this is the ONLY way as the guys who have been thru the mill still have a way that the system can stomp on them and that will necessarily limit their actions.
Withdrawing support from a rotting corrupt beast, ala Atlas Shrugged and going Galt is the fatal flaw of a system that survives by turning the productive into slavish inmates.
Employing this strategy literally takes no effort, no engagement, no force. It is peaceful, detached resistance. Its not even really resistance. Its so easy its almost funny.
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Picture the world of Mad Max or Fallout. Does feminism exist? No!
There are real possibilities for cratering civilization out there. I advocate that we each do our little bit to bring the world to it’s knees: we’ll drive the gas guzzling SUV’s, we’ll throw away our tin cans instead of recycling, we’ll waste food profligately, we’ll burn through mountains of sluts and refuse to marry, and we’ll refuse to take those jobs that sustain the country.
These things will weaken civilization from multiple points. Bleed the beast till it falls. Think of the freedom you’d enjoy! The true chance to make one’s own destiny!
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rob said;
‘we have let the enemy define the terms of engagement.’
‘…we obligate ourselves to use their definitions and terms in our language, and adhere to their values’
‘…one of the most effective, and simple things that we can do right now is to redefine the debate on our own terms.’
BINGO.
Politics 101… set the frame. Never answer their questions. Re-frame, re-frame,re-frame. Control the playing field. Ignore everything the opposition says. Don’t do their work for them.
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zed September 23, 2010 at 08:47
You of course have ghosts like me publically rattling the cages of feminists and other members’ of the misandry machine and ensnaring them in their own BS.
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One Spartacus of many is the footballer Christiano Ronaldo. One of the world’s most eligable bachelors (if he is not gay) decided to become a father with a woman he seems to have paid off, so he became the child’s only custodian.
http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2010/07/ricky-martin-congratulates-ronaldo.html
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Ha ha ha. I haven’t laughed so hard in ages. All these useless men who are opting out of the dating scene and refusing to marry women are idiots. That’s right: idiots.
They’re denying themselves legitimate, biologically driven relationships and the chance to have kids. They are ‘going their own way’ yet they aren’t DEMANDING through protests/strikes etc that all the feminist institutions like family court/child custody/alimony and the domestic violence industry are entirely scrapped. Instead of actually demanding society change via the abolishment of all these institutions, they metaphorically cut off their own nose to spite their face by denying themselves female companionship/family life.
In the end, men who won’t marry/romantically engage with women will not have sons to pass down their wisdom, thereby removing themselves from the gene pool. These guys are worthless ‘activists’ and should be ashamed. If they had any real sense they’d be calling for the ABOLISHMENT of feminist institutions (without them you’d remove almost all male oppression), not simply walking away from women (who, for the record, are biologically designed to be with men, and visa versa).
Again, idiots. Useless. Fcuking. Idiots.
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I think we ride along with larger political and cultural movements that get us what we want.
Game has woken many a man, and we’re here to seed him with anti-feminism once he’s receptive.
Some of what the Tea Party and Libertarian movements stand for are very favorable to us. I still think the Tea Party is going Neocon and Feminist but that doesn’t mean we can’t reach some receptive individuals in that movement.
And we must not underestimate to power of social networks. Twitter is a phenomenal tool that I use a lot in conjunction with my profession and Libertarian issues.
Beyond that, the arts, religion and culture are perhaps the most powerful tools of all to shift minds. If we see movies/music/art/literature/video games that promote our ideas we can jump on their related forums and perhaps have some happy and light discussion on our issues with the fans.
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Tom47
Lavazza
Walter and scatmaster (isn’t scat a porn fetish withpeople shittin on each other?) had this to say.
The pieces are there we all seem to know whats going on and each one of us in our way should work at getting us to the ends. The true game is for them to change the law in their own self interest. I have absolutely no faith or foolish thoughts on enlightening woman and the powers that be in the plight of men and them seeing the pain and kindly making corrections. Look at the military and the suicide problem they have. Read any article on the subject it is madness. It is all of the MRA points and ideas that will work as whole. Only a couple of issues and understandings need to be understood universally and we should run with it.
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Tom47
Lavazza
Walter and scatmaster (isn’t scat a porn fetish withpeople shittin on each other?) had this to say.
The pieces are there we all seem to know whats going on and each one of us in our way should work at getting us to the ends. The true game is for them to change the law in their own self interest. I have absolutely no faith or foolish thoughts on enlightening woman and the powers that be in the plight of men and them seeing the pain and kindly making corrections. Look at the military and the suicide problem they have. Read any article on the subject it is madness. It is all of the MRA points and ideas that will work as whole. Only a couple of issues and understandings need to be understood universally and we should run with it.
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There it is, guys. Our job is to take what steps we need to in order to make it in their self interest.
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I think you could argue that the “Baby Boomer” generation as a whole, with respect to environmental and budgetary damages, has acted against their children and grandchildren.
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Please watch. AngryHarry and Erin Pizzey ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwxgavf2xWE
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Unpopular Opinion wrote:
Men who already have gotten married and/or had children have not necessarily accepted the notions that:
A. Feminism is a bad thing that must be opposed
B. Feminism is enforced through law
C. Laws must be changed in order to effectively challenge feminism
D. Feminist institutions must be either eliminated or purged of their feminist influences
E. Children must be taught all of the above and, upon reaching adulthood, enlisted in the battle to fight feminist institutions and laws
It is a colossal error to assume that a critical mass fathers are capable of — much less interested in — achieving any of the above. MGTOW is not a movement; it’s a phenomenon. It’s the culmination of tens of millions of individual men exercising their independent judgment to avoid marriage, not because they’re “joining a movement” but rather because it’s the right decision for them. They avoid legal marriage precisely because legal marriage is what provides the pretext to invite the government into their families as the authority which supercedes that of the father. Even procreation itself, regardless of whether it is done in the context of marriage or cohabitation, invites the government into people’s private lives (and again, supercedes the authority of the father). So if would-be fathers can’t wield authority over their families because of the government’s reach into the private sphere, it is in the interest of men to avoid starting a family only to have it ripped out from under their feet.
Do you think that disempowered fathers will have an active relationship with their kids just because biologically they sired those kids? No. The government, which depends for its power on workers to provide it tax revenue, has provided the incentive for men to avoid becoming one of the government’s next victims. By dropping out of the rat race, not only will MGTOW (A) benefit themselves by avoiding legal devastation, but they may also possibly (B) deprive the government of its sustaining revenue. If (B) doesn’t happen any time soon, at least in the meantime individual men can do (A) to shape their own futures — through their own individual decisions — and at least exercise direction over their own lifetimes until (B) happens.
Again, MGTOW — properly understood — is a cumulative phenomenon and not necessarily a cooperative phenomenon. Even men who ideologically align with feminism may be declining legal marriage without realizing that in making that decision they’re unwittingly participating in the MGTOW phenomenon.
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In addition to the many good arguments already made against the need for any Spartacus, there is yet another – ideological stagnation. People get bored with a certain way of thinking. What was once novel starts to sound old, and repulsion towards it soon follows.
The same thing happens in all spheres of human judgment. Fashions fade. Companies collapse. Nations die away. Old families reach their end and new ones take their place.
Feminism has already developed that hallmark of the terminal: a recognizable language of its own, replete with slogans and the repetition of its necessary false premises. It reminds me of how the Soviets used to talk. The only people who respond to this are the sheep, as numerous as they are. The absence of intelligent commentary and evolution of more insight is because the intelligent and insightful have left the building – and when that happens, the building eventually crumbles through neglect.
Anyone taken a look at Feministing lately? Many of the posted articles are now attracting zero comments. I suspect the same is happening on other fem-sites. On the other hand, gender commentary in those online newspapers that freely publish pro-men material are overwhelmingly anti-feminist.
Places that allow people to speak freely generally attract the smartest and the most critical of people, people who will eventually find a better way no matter how many blind alleys they try in the process. At least they are moving, and that’s all it takes (and this is probably what Churchill meant when he said that he could always rely on the Americans to do the right thing, after they had tried everything else).
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Justin Beiber song….500 000 000 hits on youtube (ie a half billion)
manwomanmyth….a fantastic collection of youtube videos explaining the MRMovement….average hits???? 1200 hits
Creat a youtube cult like video with the MRM message….get a billion hits…and we’re out there!!!!
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Who will be Spartacus?
We are all Spartacus.
We all lead to inspire like-minded men. We are all teachers of children. We are all those who live according to what they believe is right.
I get so tired of hearing about how we are ineffective because we won’t mix with women who hate, marry women who hate, and breed with women who hate. It’s been done for 40-plus years…how is that strategy working out for you?
Likewise, you don’t change things by merely being loud. It works for the feminists, but the reason it does is because every legislator who passed amendments and laws, and saw to rigorous enforcement are traitors to their own kind. They do what women say because in their own minds it will increase their image as being someone women want to be with; its a pity that this only happens in their own minds.
Now, if someone is advocating that we become more…uh, “seductive”…so that these same men will want to be with us the way their reptilian brains lead them to believe with women…well, no thanks.
It’s all crap. Unity amongst the bitchiest women on Earth may well work for them. It will not work for us, plainly and simply. Our cause goes un-noticed? Not really…not when the statisticians are showing more and more that women can’t find husbands, when article after magazine article talks more about how to trap a man rather than live with them, when crime stats go up concurrent with the numbers of women wanting to be single parents. I would rather take a stand, and not comply. In short, become a man first….and vote for real men.
We can’t even get along amongst ourselves, arguing over how we should see things over-turned. So, we’re all supposed to just follow some figurehead and not be entertained as being serious otherwise…gee, that sounds like what a wife would do.
Screw it. I will do as I want to do, whether my fellow men like it or not. Nobody can take your manhood away…it can only be given up voluntary.
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Although I can think of many men who, imho, would make excellent leaders, we need organization and cohesiveness to proceed further in any effective manner.
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Curiepoint September 25, 2010 at 18:33
Unity
(y)
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piercedhead September 24, 2010 at 16:24
I like what you have said. I agree.
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I approached a potential Spartacus today, hedge fund billionaire and Balls Monologues 2009 Guy of the Year David Tepper. Thought you guys might enjoy it. In case the links don’t show, since I sometimes don’t get that right here, its also available on my website.
David,
I wrote a review of your of your iconic interview on CNBC. You can read my review by clicking here. Thought you might enjoy it. After seeing you both go and say, “balls to the walls” on live global television, it is clearer to me than ever that you were the ideal selection for “The Balls Monologues’ 2009 Guy of the Year.”
I’m writing to you now again to ask you to be our benefactor (plus, I’ll be using this article, with your email addresses redacted, of course, as material for a blog post). For a contribution of merely $1 million, I would be able to quit my lousy job and concentrate full-time on developing and disseminating Guyinist doctrine.
As you know, Guyinist fuckonometricians, including myself, have calculated that you made enough money last year to have sex with at least the entire female population of Norway, Sweden, and Finland combined. I have done some research, and determined that if you donated just $1 million to Guyinism (or about .5% of what you earned last year), your earnings last year alone would still afford you enough money to have sex with the entire female populations of those three countries, except you would have to skip having sex with the 50,000 or so women in Lahti, Finland (pop. 98,826) – its not like you’d have to miss out on fucking all the women in Helsinki. Besides, how hot can the chicks be in a city that sounds like a type of coffee? Oh, shitzou – coffee is usually hot. Never mind. Pick another city to skip over if you prefer. Anyway, I understand that once you’ve had sex with about 315,000 Scandinavian women, its like you’ve had sex with them all [Ed. note: last clause slightly changed from the original].
If $1million is not available for our cause at this time, I have an alternative suggestion. As I gather from your CNBC interview, you have been averaging 30-40% returns for about 15 years. If you were to set aside just 10% of a 30% return on $1 million, I would still have to keep my day job but I could use the proceeds, $30,000, for fuckonometric research. You wouldn’t even have to formally set it aside the mill an endowment – we’ll just get the flow. An annual pledge of just $30,000 would allow me to have sex with about three hookers a week. Think about what I would learn and be able to share with the world!
It is not just your money we Guyinists are after. Your gravitating personality gives us the perfect public image. You exude several of the most important Guyinistic qualities, qualities that I am proud to have myself: 1) a modicum of success, or at least the desire to succeed, 2) a bawdy sense of humor, and 3) not-particularly-good-looks (OK, the first one is very optional in Guyinism, but the fact that you are successful is a big plus).
Moreover, we could really use your leadership. A prominent Men’s Rights/Guyinist online magazine recently ran an article asking, “Who Will be our Spartacus?” I strongly believe that you would make a great Spartacus for Guyinism.
I know what you are thinking. As ably pointed out by several Spearhead readers, Spartacus was captured and crucified, enduring an incredibly tortuous death.
Listen, just don’t think about that part. Let me worry about the details, OK? You still have a highly-successful hedge fund to run, not to mention day-to-day family obligations. Just go with it.
I suggest this. I live in Tampa, close to Raymond James Stadium. Before you jet back to Jersey tonight, hit me up. I can either meet you in the skybox, or after the game at nearby legendary lap dance emporium Mons Venus, which is only a short walk from the stadium. You can buy me a lap dance or two and we can discuss how we can work together. Better yet, you can just buy Mons Venus, we can get a few lap dances together, and you can gift Mons Venus to Guyinism when you fly out. A lot of my research has been conducted there, and I could get even more done if I didn’t have to pay the $20 cover charge every time I go in.
By the way, if you happen to get run into by Roethlisberger, let him know about this, too. We Guyinists recognize him as being one of us, at least with his old haircut. Hopefully, he hasn’t thrown out that $14 Walgreens self-trimmer he was using and he can again, like us, look the part.
Hope to hear from you.
—
DirkJohanson
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Men’s rights… rubbish.
The only right is power.
Those in power name their rights, and allow others to exercise whatever rights will not threaten their power.
If you do not have the power to exercise the rights you claim, you effectively do not have those rights.
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There it is in a concise nutshell. Any notion of something called a “right” requires someone to stand up against those who would deprive you of that.
Might may not make right, but it is the only way to secure rightS.
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I’ve been reading MRA blogs for years and watching the feminist inspired laws roll on with no brakes for just as long. I’m resigned to the fact that feminism will only cease to be the controlling force in our society when our society collapses. Manginas and white knights will become hated because when men are stuggling to survive….they will finally reject the notion that women and children…..should come first. Men will be willing to put their woman….assuming she is a good one…..and his children first……but will reject the notion that they should sacrifice anything for someone elses. Women will keep trying to extract resources from men they have nothing to do with…..via the tax system…..child support, alimoney etc etc…but the institutions will not be able to be supported. Imagine trying to impose all these things during the great depression. It wouldn’t work……NOW could not exist in that environment. As well as not supporting women as much as possible in our private lives……eg. marriage strike….mgtow…..game…..fuck and chuck etc etc…….we also need to work towards collapse. Lets us men take away all the goodies we have given to the human race. Lets not have a woman……..or children……and lets be very frugal…..and hoard our money……..or better still…..spend it in a way that is destructive. The USA must definately collapse…..it’s the hub of feminism and no longer the land of the free…..it’s a feminist totolatarian police state and feminists around the world take their lead from this nest of misandrists. As selfish, and irrational and greedy and self entitled as women are nowdays, they still get their power from men. We might not be able to take up arms and do a sparticus against women, but we can againts the men who support feminism. We need strong, brave men to stand up to manginas and be a real threat to them. And when I say threat I mean real threat…..they need a good kicking at every opportunity…..I’d like to see mangina, white knight bashing become a popular hobby. Most manginas and white knights are weak cowardly men that fold and cower in the corner and cry like women when placed under real threat…..they are all mouth…..always trying to appear brave heros to women but when faced with a real threat from a man…..will run and hide behind the nearest skirt like little boys. I’m lucky…..I’m 6’4″ and weight 140kgs….mostly muscle…..so it’s very easy for me to intimidate these arse wipes in public and in front of as many women as possible……I like doing that and I often go looking for trouble. I often stick my nose into converations of misandrist nature that I overhear and try and get an arguement going….I then go on the aggressive verbally…..and provoke as much as possible from the manginas…..I keep pushing and pushing until they cower or give me enough excuse to drop them. I’ve never been in a fight where one good hit from me wasn’t enough to leave a guy on the floor beaten……and nothing makes a guy look so pathetic in front of women……and it sure will make that mangina think about what comes out their mouth in future. Thats my contribution to the MRA…..I convert big mouthed manginas into silent ones.
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I Saw this film a long tine ago. My friend named ernani is gay, so he is love this film
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