More on the Drive to Reduce Female Sentences

by W.F. Price on September 13, 2010

While doing a little research on this female sentencing guideline issue, I had a hunch it must have something to do with suicides in prison. I’ve been reading up about suicides in jails lately, because suicide risk can rise to critical levels for a lot of guys who are thrown in jail by their wives. Feminists don’t care about male suicide, and often point out that higher rates of suicide amongst men are simply “natural,” and therefore “equal” even when four times as many men kill themselves as women. However, when enough stress is placed on women that they begin to kill themselves in numbers approaching parity, it sets off feminist alarm bells.

This happened briefly in the early 00s in Britain, when there were close to double digit suicides in the female inmate population for about three or four years in a row. In 2003 and 2004, respectively, 14 and 13 women killed themselves. This was held to be an epidemic, and much noise was made about it in official circles. Since then, the rate has dropped back to the norm, in which about 5% of prison suicides are female.

I am not a statistician, but it seems to me that when dealing with such small numbers in a country of tens of millions of people, the difference between 3 and 14 is not all that statistically significant, and a couple years of elevated prison suicides among women would be expected to occur from time to time, but I suppose it would be a mistake to think rationally about these matters.

Another issue is that criminality is often connected to mental problems, if not outright mental illness, and these are in turn strongly connected to suicide. Given that women have such a low rate of imprisonment, one would assume that the women who are locked up represent an even more troubled cross-section of their sex than incarcerated men. And the more troubled they are, the more likely they are to be suicidal. Therefore, it makes sense that women who are locked up woud be much more prone to suicide than your average woman.

Nevertheless, it became a minor national issue, and was reported in the newspapers. A 2003 article in The Guardian reports on the “soaring” rate of female suicides in prison, suggesting that the women were simply harmless, mentally ill and troubled young women who don’t pose a danger to the community:

‘These are deeply shocking statistics; these women were mentally unstable and traumatised before they even got to prison and many were already repeatedly self-harming,’ said Claire McCarthy, of the Howard League for Penal Reform, who carried out the research.

‘The vast majority of these women represented no danger to the community,’ she added. ‘They were a danger to themselves only.’

Almost 80 per cent were in prison for non-violent offences.

The final statement is quite frankly untrue. At the end of the article there is a list of the women and their offenses, and it clearly shows that to suggest that the majority of the women who killed themselves were not dangerous is a lie.

Here is the list:

Leanne Gidney, 18, died at Brockhill. Offence: robbery

Sarah Campbell, 18, Styal. Manslaughter

Clare Parsons, 20, Eastwood Park. Witness intimidation

Jennifer Clifford, 19, Bullwood Hall. Crime not known

Helena Price, 27, New Hall. Handling stolen goods

Sue Stevens, 48, Durham. Wounding

Jolene Willis, 24, Styal. Theft

Jayne Buck, 28, Durham. Arson

Hayley Williams, 41, Styal. Theft

Jessica Adam, 22, New Hall. Handling stolen goods

Julie Walsh, 39, Styal. Theft

Emma Levey, 25, Downview. Robbery

Wendy Booth, 35, Durham. Murder

Petra Blanksby, 19, New Hall. Arson

Aside from the two killers, we have one in for wounding, two arsons, a witness intimidation, and two robberies. That makes eight out of the fourteen dangerous criminals. These women were a danger to society. This doesn’t mean we should cheer the suicides, but the crimes were far from inconsequential. Here in the US, for example, robbery and arson are taken very seriously, because they often result in deaths, whether that was the intent or not.

It is these kinds of moral panics, often cynically created by activists themselves, that serve as the justification for measures such as the recent order from Dame Laura Cox to go easy on female criminals. There is often a great deal of intensive, insider lobbying that provides the impetus for what are obviously unjust and stupid policies. To reduce suicides in women’s prisons, more competent mental health professionals could be hired to keep an eye on procedure and the detainees, but instead we are seeing calls to take it easy on killers, robbers and arsonists – by definition dangerous people – by reducing their sentences.

What sane, justice-loving and clear-thinking men ought to do is roll up their sleeves, write reports, testify in front of committees, and make their case with as much vigor as the entrenched feminist lobbyists. It’s a hard job, but now that so many women have locked themselves into careers, perhaps there’s more time and resources available to men willing to take on the responsibility.

{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }

Hughman September 13, 2010 at 13:34

Bill, do you know what the prison population of women is in the UK? (I could look, but I’d prefer you as the author of this post to speak from authority)

If you have a rough figure, I could run some basic stat maths on it and give a good idea if it’s significant or not.

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Nico September 13, 2010 at 14:19

The International Center for Prison studies gives the basic stats:

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=169

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SingleDad September 13, 2010 at 14:21

Total number: 4463 women in prison in England in 2006

http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/adviceandsupport/prison_life/femaleprisoners/

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Hughman September 13, 2010 at 14:31

Cheers.

At a Confidence Interval of 95%, the rise of 3 to 14 suicides was highly insignificant. CI works out to +/- 30, so a rise of 30 suicides was needed for it to be a statistical problem.

Bah, fecking modern media being unable to do some simple maths.

(I see this problem all the time as a medical student. I’ve had to bite the bullet and shell out for actual medical journals to get accurate research and information, or at least news with data and sources for me to judge myself)

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Nico September 13, 2010 at 14:48

Many women involved with a psychopathic boyfriend, whom they adore, can easily claim that they have been manipulated into taking part in a crime (although there is plenty of evidence that the women are simply sexually attracted/in love with the bad boy.)

They can play victimhood and get away with a slap on the hand.
Ill-gotten money is useless if you can’t spend it, and big criminals like mafiosi need to « launder » the money, i.e; reinject it in the economy without attracting the attention. Many businesses check the origin of the money.

But many women don’t have these qualms. Indeed, women may be among the easiest persons to « launder » money with. Some women simply don’t mind if you had to steal, maim or kill to get the money, provided that they get the lifestyle. And this is without the risk of getting a long prison sentence, since she was « manipulated » by the evil bad boy. The man takes the risk, but they share the benefit.

There’s a media campaign in France right now about a French woman, Florence Cassez (her beautiful face behind bars), who was condemned to 60 years without parole in Mexico. She was accused of being a member of a gang (The Zodiacos) which perpetrated kidnappings against ransom.

The case is seemingly very complicated, but she was the girlfriend of the gangleader and benefited from his lifestyle.
The hostages were detained on the ranch where she was arrested. She claimed she believed her man was the honnest law-abiding hard-working beta man, just like me, but with more houses and swimming-pools.

Anyway, in France only the worst serial killers will spend 60 years in prison (i am not sure it ever happened) and women very seldom spend a long stint behind bars, so many people defend her, arguing that the case was rigged against her for political reasons.

I believe women should be held accountable in some way for the crimes of the man they choose to have kids with. That is : if your gina tingles for psychopaths, you’d better think twice before indulging in your fancy. Female sex is a serious incentive, and if you reward antisocial behaviour, you harm society. Even more so if you have ten kids with a psychopath.
Only this would help decrease the antisocial genetic burden, since so many women value psychopathic qualities.

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Snark September 13, 2010 at 14:51

At a Confidence Interval of 95%, the rise of 3 to 14 suicides was highly insignificant. CI works out to +/- 30, so a rise of 30 suicides was needed for it to be a statistical problem.

Irrelevant.

The fact that some female prisoners were killing themselves made feminists feel bad.

Therefore, since feelings = facts, the law must be changed.

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Nemo September 13, 2010 at 14:58

There’s an actual movement in the UK to shut down women’s prisons entirely and refill them with men.

No joke.

Google “baroness corston report” and follow links such as this one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6444961.stm

Read carefully. The part about re-filling the empty prisones with men is buried in the text, in the fourth paragraph.

It’s a covert effort to turn actual prison sentences into somethig that are reserved exclusively for men – if there are no more prisons for women, then they can’t be imprisoned.

Men are the new blacks. We have equal rights on paper but not in practice, just like blacks did before the civil rights era. This is a good example of the new “Jane Crow” laws, proposed by women who literally don’t see men as fully human beings. They can’t understand why anyone would object if the only “men’s clubs” in the UK that have an exclusively male clientele are the prisons.

Women see themselves as nobles and men as serfs, and naturally assume that uppity serfs should receive Low Justice while women enjoy the right to High Justice.

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Anonymous September 13, 2010 at 17:02

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Lirazel September 13, 2010 at 17:02

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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Anonymous September 13, 2010 at 17:13

@ Nemo

“Men are the new blacks. We have equal rights on paper but not in practice, just like blacks did before the civil rights era. This is a good example of the new “Jane Crow” laws, proposed by women who literally don’t see men as fully human beings.”

Men are the new “niggas”. Oh no he did’nt?

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Paradoxotaur September 13, 2010 at 17:15

Lirazel asks: “Do you have any evidence to back up your hunch?”

Well, I suppose it wouldn’t be just a hunch then, would it? Let me know if I’m typing too fast and I’ll slow down.

Hey thanks for the link that correlation does not imply causation. Never really thought about that. Wowza. A could cause B, B could cause A, C could cause both A and B, or it’s just a coincidence. I would like to point out that correlation does not preclude causation, either, so unless you’ve got evidence to the contrary, I’m gonna stick with my first impression.

Honestly, I think they get this stuff off a Twitter feed. I had a stupid feminist school superintendent pull that same stunt on me in an open school board meeting recently. It gave me an opening to push her into a spittle-flecked, vapor-locked meltdown. Lots of fun.

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W.F. Price September 13, 2010 at 17:16

it reads like you are claiming that just such a backroom feminist conspiracy is behind the reported changes to the “Equal Treatment Bench Book” . Do you have any evidence of that?

Of course it’s a conspiracy — but it isn’t exactly hidden. Look, there are feminist pressure groups in every major university, there are dozens of overtly feminist legal and academic associations, there is even a feminist tech group where I live. I’ve documented plenty of those.

If you think it’s absurd of me to suggest that groups like that had a hand in preparing the reports and testifying before the committee that came up with the new guidelines, I’d invite you to do some of the research yourself and prove me wrong.

Shawn September 13, 2010 at 17:20

@ Nemo

“Men are the new blacks.”

Men are the new niggas. Patti Smith beg to differ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GC4ByJCbh8

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misterb September 13, 2010 at 17:30

This article reminded of few things including an email from a pastor, I received recently. Feminism is a rot of society and it distorts reality. In addition to the stupidity of mankind.

History has shown that mankind kept making the same mistakes over and over again.

I mentioned this before a few times, that we are heading in another dark age.

Everyone is accountable for his or her own actions and words. And should be held accountable.

In my opinion, people are not supposed to follow their hearts, they are supposed to think with their heads and heed what conscience a single man has. Following your heart is the path of stupidity.

A man’s greatest attribute is his capacity for compassion, along with strength and reasoning.

With the advent of moral relativism, life has become interesting. Not to mention screwed up. Actual victims are considered vile fiends. And those who commit crimes, are themselves the victims.

And the men activists in the UK are in the front lines. I noted that what you call manginas and white knights have their heads deep in the sand.

They say ignorance is bliss. That one is evident.

Any man who has reasoning, has decency to stay away trouble making females. A cute face and a sweet ass is not a worth the trouble in the long run.

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Lyle September 13, 2010 at 18:10

The atrocious war on men continues unabated. Tiger Woods receives the privilege of handing over more than one third of his career wealth to an entitled bitch he foolishly married. Jon Gosslin receives the privilege of state-approved “visitation” with his own sons.

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fondueguy September 13, 2010 at 20:43

Does someone have a set of links that show studies on how courts are already harsher on men in general as far as prosecution and sentencing goes?

Of course I’m mostly concerned with the western world.

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Nico September 13, 2010 at 21:23

I read a few days ago that in the 70′, feminists demonstrated in front of the Rochette prison for women, in Paris, and asked for the liberation of ALL their convicted sisters, victims of the biases of a patriarchal justice system. Ironically, the small Rochette prison for women was built next to a big one for men (both have been demolished since that time).

This event was mentionned in a timeline commemorating the 40th birthday of the French MLF (movement for the liberation of women) celebrated last August the 26th.

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misterb September 13, 2010 at 21:33

Personally I don’t like taking sides. I don’t care what other people think. I would comment, agree and disagree. At times I tend to use strong language.

I don’t care about gay rights, transsexual rights, sexual rights, or about the fragile women’s ego, or even the mambo jumbo of feminism.

When push comes to shove, shit would indeed hit the fan. The battlefields have been drawn by the feminists. I wonder if the MRM would become radicalized in the near future. Like the mirror of the feminists groups.

The feminists should tread carefully. Obviously the male sex were used as pawns for their games. Their faith in the big government is their own undoing. And it would bite them in the ass, not in a good way.

Then again human idiocy is universal. In truth feminists don’t care, they’re practically dim-witted to care.

Any woman who read this comment. Don’t be dim-witted as those feminists who sold their souls and femininity for materialism. take a step back, and take a long look. Think for a moment and then decide.
Are you willing to become a man’s pillar.
And allow the men to become your anchors and your compasses.

It’s been said people in power refuses to share theirs. men of revolution would turn on those who had sided with them. if you read the history books, you would understand what I’m referring. And history would repeat itself.

I should reread Sun Tzu art of war.

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Nico September 13, 2010 at 21:35

Sorry, the prison was The Small Roquette (for women), as opposed to The big Roquette (for males)..

The demonstration took place in october 1970. A picture published in a paper at that time. The banner reads “All of us women are oriminals”

Sheer heroism.

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Anonymous Anon is anonymous September 13, 2010 at 21:42

You think that’s bad,look at this. They’re releasing cold-blooded killer females in batches now.

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misterb September 13, 2010 at 21:51

To be truthful I am glad that my grandparents are not alive in this day of age. Considering what goes on this world. This world had indeed lost their marbles. All manner of reason, common sense and decency had all left the building. More like following Elvis Presley right out the door.

Whoever thinks that women are just misunderstood victims are just plain idiotic. Oh the women are committing suicide in huge numbers.

The women committed those crimes, should suffer the consequences of their own actions.

Personally I hate it when unjust laws are passed. The saying goes, if you hate your neighbour, you’re already a murderer. Those women sure know how to make the men feel. The hatred of men is in full swing.

I am started to think that feminism is a self-hatred of women.

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Robert September 13, 2010 at 23:47
TheAssOfBalaam September 14, 2010 at 07:36

In this Sunday’s Washington Post, John Grisham wrote a sob story about the first woman to be executed in Virginia in a ‘coon’s age. His primary beef seems to be that she is a woman, as if that means she shouldn’t be punished for cold-blooded murder, and that she didn’t do the actual killing of her husband and stepson, but had a couple goons do it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/10/AR2010091002673.html

When nonsense like this is seen as a sufficient argument in a newspaper with the prestige of the WaPo, things have gotten bad. I wouldn’t mind a bit more oppressive patriarchy at this point.

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SingleDad September 14, 2010 at 09:01

@ Anonymous Anon

Excellent find.

Interestingly I have been reading the comments on the conservative fox news web site. Women know exactly the power free riegn to kill gives them. Publishing these articles they are striking fear into all men. This is planned.

The women at Fox were commenting on the woman due to be stoned in Iran. They all downplay that she has been convicted of assisting in killing her husband.

In the comment section at Fox, conservative, religeous US females say, “Don’t your husbands to to sleep at night”. What they mean is “Why don’t you kill your husbands in their sleep”.

Go to Fox news read the comments.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/08/iran-womans-stoning-suspended-international-outcry/uspS#commenting

I believe “The Burning Bed” and “Sleeping with the Enemy” were both feminist instruction manuals on how to kill your husband.

Women knew that, with their plan, women would have to become hatefull of their husbands. These movies were pure projection by the feminists in Hollywood who hate their beta breadwinning husbands. They hate them for the same reason they hate everything. It’s just not enough. Never enough.

Frankly, today, I am coming to the belief that any man who cohabitates with a woman deserves to be killed. Just as I believe that women in relationships or countries that abuse them and don’t leave deserve their lot.

I have traveled a fair amount and the opinion men and women have of US men in other countries is that we are the biggest pussies on the planet.

That is why it is so easy for American men to get a foriegn bride. The reputation is that American men are the weakest on the planet. The women in these countries told me so themselves.

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Lirazel September 14, 2010 at 17:45

If you think it’s absurd of me to suggest that groups like that had a hand in preparing the reports and testifying before the committee that came up with the new guidelines, I’d invite you to do some of the research yourself and prove me wrong.

I don’t live in the UK, so it would be rather hard for me to speak with the only two reporters who have written about this story. Likewise, I’m limited to the http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/ web site for information about the Equal Treatment Bench Book. So I did spend about 15 minutes over the past few nights doing a little research on a report from the UK. Unfortunately, the web site doesn’t say anything about the process by which it is updated — by a committee or by an individual. Does anyone in England have the interest in doing this, or is everyone busy being outraged?

When something comes happens in the US, (like finding out what the child support guidelines are for Pinellas County, or what Senator Justice’s itinerary is), I do research. But not with the goal of proving you or anyone else wrong — rather, with the goal of causing change.

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misterb September 14, 2010 at 17:54

good one SingleDad,

US men are the biggest pussies, I noted the same thing in Canada long time. It did make sense, considering that women in other countries wanted men who can give what they desire. A comfortable place to live and a quick cash.
In their logic, if you can afford to have them fly to you. You can afford them.

On a note, there are different kind of pussies. There are pussies who are beefy, pussies with guns, sadistic pussies, violent pussies, thug pussies, the standard pussies.

Actually if you cohabitate with a woman, your single life is over. They say that cohabiting with woman prior to marriage and marrying the same woman, it won’t last long. Divorce would soon follow.

When you’re dating a woman, it’s a terrible idea to let her move in. It’s all right to let her sleep in your bed on occasion or two.

back then the old arrangement was a two way street. A man would pay the rent, she would choose the furniture. In loose translation.
That was before feminism mucked that old arrangement big time.

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