Is Game in Marriage Always Worth It?

by W.F. Price on August 24, 2010

Chateau/Roissy, Hawaiian Libertarian and others have written a lot of good stuff about how important Game can be in marriage. They’re right — a woman who perceives her husband as in charge and on top of things is a lot more likely to stick around than one who sees him as a pathetic beta provider. So it’s pretty obvious that putting some effort into maintaining one’s confidence, self-assuredness and wit is important to keeping a marriage alive. Guys who neglect this are at least halfway down the path of divorce.

However, one thing I don’t see all that often is a discussion of the unsatisfied, unhappy married man. In our gynocentric culture, we have scores of films, songs, books and TV shows that that detail the dissatisfaction of wives with inadequate husbands, but it appears to be taboo to bring up the fact that plenty of men aren’t all that happy with their wives. Whether it’s taboo or not, it’s a very real phenomenon that is, unfortunately, an exceedingly common problem.

Several of my friends/acquaintances are guys who remain in marriages because they don’t have a viable alternative. One’s a lawyer, one’s a cop, and another’s a corporate manager. What they all have in common is that they feel stuck with their wives. Often, they unload their frustrations while talking to me. My cop friend is totally “alpha” as far as the term is understood in the manosphere. He doesn’t take any crap from his wife, stands his ground, and buries shit tests immediately. However, he is far from happy in his marriage. His wife, although she complains at times, is devoted to him, but he just isn’t all that interested. He told me this evening that he’s sick of sex with her, is at his wits’ end about her irresponsible spending, and would rather be spending more time with his kids than working 12 hours a day to pay off credit card debts that she runs up.

My attorney friend is not even close to satisfied with his wife, who is most interested in the suburban status game. He feels like a caged animal, and lives with the sense that his life could be a lot better if he’d never married his wife in the first place.

The corporate manager is divorced, but then remarried for some reason or the other. I’ve only seen him with his wife once; the rest of the time he’s been with other women, and his wife with other men.

There are millions of men out there who are stuck in similar situations, but they tend to stay with their families because they think it’s the right thing for the kids, and also because they know that they’d be absolutely ruined if they pursued divorce.

So what do we have to offer these men? Sure, we criticize women for leaving because they are merely “unhappy,” but shouldn’t we take into account that men are sometimes unhappy in their marriages as well?

It seems to me that blaming marriage breakups on men’s lack of Game is another one of those examples of unfairly placing all the responsibility on men. In fact, what’s most telling to me is that, for all the feminist criticism of the manosphere and Game, I’ve never seen a woman suggest that there’s anything wrong with gaming one’s wife. It may be true that marriages break up when a man stops being the kind of husband that a woman wants, but we ought to keep in mind that this often follows the wife’s failure to live up to some minimum standard that would keep a husband satisfied. This may not always be her fault, but often it really is.

A wife who blows cash like there’s no tomorrow, who lets herself go physically, who is a nag or who makes no allowances for the husband’s normal recreational pursuits isn’t exactly inspiring a man to be confident and masculine in her presence. If anything, he’s resentful, tired of her, and on the defensive — all of which are antithetical to Game.

Sure, a case could be made that tight Game will bring a woman around and get her to start working out, cooking, saving and acting like a good wife, but sometimes it’s a pretty tall order, and it’s pretty hard to motivate oneself to put all that effort into a wife who’s already become an unattractive harridan. What do guys do in this case? From what I’ve seen, they simply go through the motions, and often things subsequently fall apart and the guys take the blame.

It seems to me that if men are expected to maintain some level of alpha behavior around women, they need a woman who’s worth it. Therefore, making a marriage work is not only on the shoulders of the man — it’s up to wives as well. If family law didn’t automatically punish men and reward women for annihilating families, women might actually take that seriously.

In short, Game cannot be a panacea without some balance in family law. Without a return to equity, women have no incentive to make themselves worthy of their husbands’ devoted efforts.

{ 153 comments… read them below or add one }

Obadyah83 August 24, 2010 at 04:32

Some good points, Welmer. I’ll have to wait till i can get home to my computer to comment more.

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MacArthur Of The MRM August 24, 2010 at 05:08

I would approach this like everything else: head on. I broadcast my happiness and sadness. No need to make threats. Just tell her how you feel. That’s the first important step. Strength and honesty are invaluable in such matters.

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Laura August 24, 2010 at 05:47

I’m glad you wrote this and I’ve often been pleasantly surprised at how many men do seem to want stay married. I know a lot of men that are tied down by women I wouldn’t want. Very often they are overweight, frigid (I’ve heard), mentally and emotionally unstable, bitchy, lazy, not good with their kids, prone to substance abuse, spendthrifts, etc. I definitely have my faults, but I’ve have always been willing to take constructive criticism from my husband which I think is a least a step in the right direction. I don’t really expect any woman to be perfect, but at least the first step is admitting that women aren’t this great prize to men in general.
I have a good friend who is a loving wife, but she also has major mental and physical health problems. Her husband loves her in spite of the burden she puts on him. I really admire him for that.
Maybe we should make divorce easier for unhappily married men. I think a lot of men settled more then they had to.

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NMH August 24, 2010 at 06:01

Good article, Welmer. I’m happy, but not more so with my girlfriend (‘Im 46, she’s 51). Although she is in good physical shape and looks younger than her age, sex with her just is not that exciting and has become more of a chore, however, I realize I am the major problem here—I have a greatly lessened sex drive that really only would catch on fire with a significantly hotter and younger woman that is not available to me.

I think as a man gets older he should expect to get along and have similar interests with his gf/wife; if that is not there, than changes need to be made and if he is miserable, he should leave. OTOH, with sex, I think a man needs to understand that as he ages he is going to need a lot more to turn him on than a standard western woman his age can provide. If he is a man of modest means and is just to tired to deal with game, he needs to learn to live with a marginal sex life from marginally attractive women. Little blue pills are a good coping mechanism here.

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Laura August 24, 2010 at 06:05

People can change and I think if a woman was motivated to do that in many cases she could. You’re right though, she might need to feel like if she doesn’t she is going to lose big, just like it’s good for a boss to be able to fire his employees if they don’t perform.

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Conrad August 24, 2010 at 06:09

I’ve been doing a lot of reading on Game and marriage recently (for my own sake), and I’ve never seen -anyone- who talks about it (Dave, Athol, etc.) suggest that lack of Game on the guy’s part is the sole reason for divorce. Suggesting otherwise is a strawman argument.

And Dalrock has a two-part series on interviewing potential wives for positive qualities. You should check it out.

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Laura August 24, 2010 at 06:18

NMH,
There isn’t really a lot we can do about getting older unfortunately. I think the best thing to do as you lose you looks is to try to be as pleasant and easy to be around as possible. It doesn’t replace being young and sexy, but at least you won’t irritate him.

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Matt K August 24, 2010 at 06:50

@ Laura
“People can change and I think if a woman was motivated to do that in many cases she could. You’re right though, she might need to feel like if she doesn’t she is going to lose big.”

If Prof Kaku is correct, there might just be a little motivation in a year or two…
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/slavo9.1.1.html

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Niko August 24, 2010 at 07:01

Bout time someone wrote about this, ‘wife gaming’ implies a man’s life must conform to the erratic whims of gina tingles. Blow that.

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Lavazza August 24, 2010 at 07:02

Excellent article, Welmer. I also think that Game is insufficient when trying to handle a woman in a LTR, especially if you have kids together, when there is no aid from law, culture, society, family etc.

I think most men in a LTR find their partner more attractive than other women the same age, since they include their memory of her earlier self in their image of her. If that combined image is not enough, their image of other women is even worse and they do not have any illusions of the grass being any greener somewhere else. The idea being something like “women the same age are unattractive and young attractive women will eventually turn bad”.

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Kathy August 24, 2010 at 07:08

“I have a greatly lessened sex drive that really only would catch on fire with a significantly hotter and younger woman ”

NMH, Perhaps you just need to accept that your sex drive is not the same as it once was and just relax and enjoy what you have.

We are all different.

I have been married fourteen years to a highly sexed man.

His drive has not diminished with age.

Same as it ever was… :)

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Jabberwocky August 24, 2010 at 07:09

As a happily married man I find it ironic that in order to make sure my wife cares about me, I have to insure that I don’t care too much about her.

Her emotions are all over the place and don’t necessarily reflect anything of actual significance. I have to detach myself from her emotionally so that I can always maintain the appropriate frame. No matter what is going on I have to act like I’m above it, that her mortal concerns are of no real interest to the god that I am. Don’t get me wrong. I tell her things that make her feel better, or if she is acting out against me, that shut her up, but I do it in an emotionally detached, almost clinical way. I feel more like her life coach than an equal partner. It is what it is.

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3DShooter August 24, 2010 at 07:11

If family law didn’t automatically punish men and reward women for annihilating families, women might actually take that seriously.

This is the root cause of the problem – state interference in personal relationships. It has given women an ability to indulge themselves at someone else expense with the knowledge that if she doesn’t get her way she will still walk away hugely rewarded for her poor conduct. Only when/if we return to a state where failure to honor commitments can get you kicked to the curb with the clothes on your back will this dynamic change.

Short of a throw the bums and their socialist/progressive laws out revolution – I won’t be holding my breath.

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Laura August 24, 2010 at 07:27

I find that men over about the age of 35 who have never been married are the least tolerant of women’s faults and physical imperfections.

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Kathy August 24, 2010 at 07:32

“Therefore, making a marriage work is not only on the shoulders of the man — it’s up to wives as well.”

Exactly Welmer.
It’s a two way street.

A woman should not expect her husband to shower her with gifts and sweep her off her feet with romantic inane sweet talk.

More often than not he is concentrating on his job and is focused on supporting his wife and kids.

His wife should be making the effort to keep the love and sex fresh and exciting..

I get a kick out of sending hubby sexually explicit text messages while he is at work… Giving him a back rub ( and whispering suggestive things in his ear) and a cold beer (a prerequisite after a hard days work) when he gets home from work.

It certainly pays dividends :)

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NMH August 24, 2010 at 07:36

I find that men over about the age of 35 who have never been married are the least tolerant of women’s faults and physical imperfections.

Makes sense. On average, women age much worse than men do, so the average older man looks a lot better than a same aged woman. On average, a man in his 40′s and 50′s has to date a woman a great deal younger than himself to get an equal looking woman. At 46, Im tall, slender, in excellent shape and my similar aged woman are mostly short-haired womanatees. Well, ate least my sex drive is lower, otherwise, Id be miserable.

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Herbal Essence August 24, 2010 at 07:40

I have several male friends who are stuck with extremely difficult wives, and yes I would like to see them grow a pair. But I’m mostly contemptuous of their wives. Because in every case, they have an attractive, reliable, smart, funny, and hardworking guy who loves them and they treat him like yesterday’s news.

They have no idea (and couldn’t care less) how many hundreds of millions of women around the world would give anything to be in their place. And seeing my married male friends’ experiences is the #1 reason I’m never getting married.

Jabberwochy-
“I feel more like her life coach than an equal partner. It is what it is.”

Well put. That’s how every relationship I’ve ever been in felt. And if I tried to lessen my life coach responsibilities, she would turn into a monster. It is what it is. Women are children.

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Davidge August 24, 2010 at 07:42

Maybe wives should be encouraged to do a little gaming with their husbands as well.

I know that I like it when my wife goes out and buys a new set of fishnet something or others to wear for me… :D

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Deansdale August 24, 2010 at 08:07

What we say is women leave perfectly fine husbands because they’re “bored”. What you describe are not perfectly fine wives. If your partner has personal problems or faults and becomes unbearable you have the right to divorce her/him. OTOH if you’re bored it’s not your partner’s fault.
Apart from this, marriage was “invented” in an age when the average life expectancy was somewhere between 30 and 40 years, so marriages didn’t last that long. Maybe it’s not “natural” to live together with someone for that long. It might work for some couples but not for everyone.

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T August 24, 2010 at 08:14

excellent post – i’m struggling with this issue myself. i discovered and began practicing game about a year ago, and initially the results were astounding. however i eventually realized that i’m just not that into my wife. i started getting laid on a regular basis but soon realized i didn’t even want to – the sex is so boring its not even worth the effort. so in some ways its back to the drawing board…

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Rebel August 24, 2010 at 08:17

I think that marriage is the destroyer of relationships.

Cohabitation is much better because you can get your freedom back with the snap of your fingers, you won’t be taken to the cleaners and, well, it just makes it more eqitable for all parties.

That is exactly what they do now in Russia. Marriage there is about non existent, therefore there are very few divorces and I believe that people are way happier because of that.

Just keep the government out of your lives as much as you can.

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Uncle Elmer August 24, 2010 at 08:20

In a sane society married men would be free to seek the comforts of concubines or prostitutes while maintaining the structure and civic responsibilities of marriage.

Several times I have had foreign men criticize Western divorce rates while pointing to their almost nonexistent rates. Well of course, when a man can stop at the corner brothel before returning home to his fat, unresponsive wife it is a lot easier to stay committed to the institution of marriage. He is maintaining his role in society and family structures while answering his basic biology to get his dick drained.

And listen you guys, stop griping about the media sewer and its torrent of fem-centric dramas while wishing someone would make a film showing the man’s point of view. Ain’t gonna happen for this reason : there is a huge market for female pap and no market for analogous male confections. Men want to see tits and shit gettin blown up; they are not going to pay to watch male romcoms, or should we say “whore-coms”?

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greyghost August 24, 2010 at 08:30

Very very good article.
This is my marriage and I absolutely hate it.

Jabberwochy-
“I feel more like her life coach than an equal partner. It is what it is.”

Well put. That’s how every relationship I’ve ever been in felt. And if I tried to lessen my life coach responsibilities, she would turn into a monster. It is what it is. Women are children.

Being the dumb guy I was at the time and the desire to be a father I married. I love my kids and will tolerate their mother to love them. When I’m out with just me and the kids people seem to just pull us aside and want to talk to us.
I have no use for a wife and have learned to see a wife as a cost of having children. I will advise my 4 year old son to never marry and to get him an artificial uterus to jack off into to have kids if I have to invent the damn thing myself.

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Laura August 24, 2010 at 08:34

Uncle Elmer,
You’re probably right that having that outlet would help married men be more content in their marriages. What their wife doesn’t know isn’t going to hurt her anyway. She shouldn’t ask too many questions.

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Gx1080 August 24, 2010 at 08:38

Dunno. Where I am, prostitution is legal, but women are so Westernized that they divorce the guy anyways (How he dare got get hookers instead of my bitchy and/or fat ass?) and then is half of his stuff.

Of course, Goverments giving welfare to single moms with bastard spawn fuck things up even further.

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Tim August 24, 2010 at 08:51

I find that men over about the age of 35 who have never been married are the least tolerant of women’s faults and physical imperfections.

I’d have to agree with you. I was engaged several years ago but decided marriage was not the way to go for me, so I broke it off.

It was the right decision: when we were going out she was 125 lbs and gorgeous.

Now she’s 145 lbs and growing. She doesn’t exercise and doesn’t care to.

It may sound shallow but its the truth. Once a woman crosses over 130 lbs, I have to leave.

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Uncle Elmer August 24, 2010 at 08:59

OK, I’m talking eastern cultures where a woman who divorces her husband essentially gets nothing. The men are usually so poor there is nothing to divide up anyway. There is no state welfare for single mothers.

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Reader August 24, 2010 at 09:03

“In short, Game cannot be a panacea without some balance in family law. Without a return to equity, women have no incentive to make themselves worthy of their husbands’ devoted efforts.” [Welmer]

This is the most important point, from an external perspective.

“As a happily married man I find it ironic that in order to make sure my wife cares about me, I have to insure that I don’t care too much about her. … I feel more like her life coach than an equal partner. It is what it is.” [Jabberwocky]

This is the most important point, from an internal perspective.

And before any of you jump on Jabberwocky, I am certain that by “equal partner” he means equal participant in creating a positive relationship, and not co-husband.

I agree that Game is a necessity in any long term relationship, to the extent that it primarily means being a confident and honorable leader, and being masculine in her presence.

But the more attention and energy a woman puts into being a positive force in her man’s life, the less she needs to be “Gamed” into not being a net loss.

The attitude of some “traditional” women seems to be that their willingness to have their need to be supported and dominated satisfied is all that they should be expected to bring to a relationship.

But a relationship with such a woman is the equivalent of trying to walk a feral cat on a leash.

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3DShooter August 24, 2010 at 09:17

@Rebel

Cohabitation is much better because you can get your freedom back with the snap of your fingers, you won’t be taken to the cleaners and, well, it just makes it more eqitable for all parties.

Cohabitation can be almost as dangerous as marriage. All it takes is a 911 call and a false accusation of abuse to get you hauled off in handcuffs and facing a legal battle. In the meantime, she will have control of all your stuff while you fork over thousands to some parasite attorney to try and sort things out.

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red0660 August 24, 2010 at 09:21

Nice thought Welmer but marriage is not about men it is about women. Men have obligations in marriage and thus liabilities in divorce.

Women have choices and men responsibilities. Ask a woman what responsibilities or liabilities she has toward and for her husband, ask her what obligations women should have to their husband and the family. Heck ask an American woman if she feels it important to fulfil her husbands sexual needs selflessly. God forbid she could feel obliged to roll over and allow him to get it out.

Women have periods AND MEN MUST CUM on a regular basis. This is how our bodies work. It is humiliating and utterly destructive to a relationship when a man ends up masturbating in the bathroom or to porn in the other room. Men should talk about these thing publicly. I feel we ask nothing of women…..nothing.

You are right Welmer, men say nothing and complain about nothing 8n the public dialog. Women on a social level dominate men and we find ourselves dancing and jumping hoops for them in an effort to keep or obtain their favor, to get mating opportunity. Women dominate, manipulate and control men. They are demanding because they can afford to be and men as individuals can not .

Further more if the grand matriarch is displeased we lose our children and are forced into labor to support her and “her” children from and empty apartment. Once you marry or have children with a woman she owns you, your body, the fruits of its labor, she own her own body and the body of children both pre and post conception. Men are simply an accesory. We have no rights within the family.

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Keyster August 24, 2010 at 09:21

She dangles the financial implications of divorce over his head and uses it as a weapon to unleash her scorn and contempt of him. It’s thus expected and deemed normal for the woman to benefit from divorce, that she doesn’t even need to pose it as a threat. The state of family law gives her the power in the relationship and he BETTER BEHAVE or else.

The escorts I’ve patronized have all said, without exception, that 90% of their clients are married. This would mean men aren’t being fulfilled by their wives. And they’re bound to the mother of their children because divorce is her option, not his. Seeing a prostitute is his only outlet, the only avenue he has to express his passion, that’s assuming wife doesn’t control the finances as well.

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misterb August 24, 2010 at 09:29

Actually it takes not all that much effort for men. I think some men forgotten what it’s like owning his woman’s ass. I am not talking about dominating her or regard her as property or even striking her or even threatening her.

I am even not talking about in the context of american colloquialism of owning the ass.

The only loose context I think of, a woman is a like wild mustang. of which you would have to break her the southern Indian style.

I like the old american saying, riding a horse is like mounting a woman.
A woman’s temperament is like that of river. And some women are easily spooked than others

I don’t know about you other men, I find sex rather quite painful, though it was quite entertaining.

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assman August 24, 2010 at 09:47

“Cohabitation is much better because you can get your freedom back with the snap of your fingers”

Cohabitation is precisely the problem with marriage. Nothing ruins a relationship faster than living together.

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Jeeves August 24, 2010 at 10:03

Men have no means to get their wives to fulfill even a basic standard of wifely duty. In my grandfather’s day, the only ‘game’ a man required was the open hand grasp of his pimp cane. Nowadays married men have no means to enforce the wife’s responsibilities while society will hypocritically steal his life savings from him if the wife decides he hasn’t fulfilled his husband duties.

In other words, it’s now illegal to be a neglectful husband, legal and encouraged to be a neglectful wife and once more illegal for the husband to demand wife fulfill her duties.

no marriage.

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red0660 August 24, 2010 at 10:15

“Cohabitation is much better because you can get your freedom back with the snap of your fingers”

No this is not true. If you live with a woman long enough you become Common Law married. Is common law actually law or a statue in the U.S.???

So all she has to do is live with you long enough you ate legally her provider. A man is required by law to maintain a woman’s standard of living after she leaves you. Implicitly the law declares that women are unable to support themselves and in order to make them independent and liberated a man MUST enable her liberation from needing men by forcing him to provide to her..EVEN IN CASES OF NO-FAULT.

IF A MAN DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR AND SUPPORT A WOMAN’S LIBERATION AND INDEPENDENCE THEY WILL PLACE HIM INSIDE OF A CAGE AND GARNISH HIS WAGES WHEN HE GETS OUT MANY TIMES AT INTEREST WHICH IS DIRECTLY PAID TO HER.

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red0660 August 24, 2010 at 10:22

Women do not think they ate paying the price for this but they are. Respect is everything to men, to us it is something that is earned. Women expect that they as a class and as individuals are to be respected because they ate women.

Women are and will continue to pay the price in ways that manifest into social culture on multiple levels and in our day to day interactions with them as well as our relationships with them. Quite simply they have lost my honor and my respect. The quiet anger and resentment men hold over these issues destroys our collective relationship with women.

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barsin August 24, 2010 at 10:37

I’m just not buying it, about game in LTR. This fad has only been around for a few years, and all I’ve heard is anecdotal evidence of its effectiveness. Meanwhile, I’ve seen guys who are alpha by any standard divorced and cheated on.

When somebody can do a thing, they will do a thing. If robbing banks were legal I’d be peeling out of the driveway loaded for bear right now.

Women are allowed and encouraged to cash out of marriages if they feel the slightest, most nebulous sense of dissatisfaction. The law is entirely in their favor. There’s no downside for them in divorce, so no impetus to work on themselves or become better wives — hell, it’s downright oppressive to suggest such a thing.

The man is the one punished for divorce. He has every motivation to improve and make the marriage work, because his ass is on the line if it fails. He’s forced to stay no matter how miserable it gets, trying to make the best of a bad situation. It’s a completely lopsided and untenable relationship because of one thing — divorce law.

LTR game really smells like the latest snake oil to me. It doesn’t even deviate much from the script you’d hear at most marriage counselors. Once again, the man is entirely responsible for the state of the marriage — it’s up to him to make his wife happy through whatever means possible. Once again, she’s blameless — the poor thing has a hamster directing her emotional states after all. It’s all his fault if she fucks the gardener, burns the house down, and ass rapes him in court — he was beta. Same shit, different day.

I get a real sense that the guys up-selling LTR game are desperate and fucking scared. I don’t blame them. They know their wives could divorce them tomorrow, not a damn thing they could do about it. They’re hoping like hell this shit works. It’s really hard to be objective in that situation.

But probably, the only difference in outcome is that instead of saying “I loved him but wasn’t in love with him anymore (the dishrag),” — she’ll call him controlling, abusive and emotionally unavailable, and ass-rape him all the harder and more self-righteously in court.

Meanwhile, I’ll be using game to improve my gas mileage and lose ten pounds. (Seriously, why do proponents of game all seem to be on fad diets? And why does Roissy wear the silliest running shoes I’ve ever seen.)

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evilwhitemalempire August 24, 2010 at 10:39

@NMH

I have a greatly lessened sex drive that really only would catch on fire with a significantly hotter and younger woman that is not available to me.

Their is nothing wrong with your sex drive.
When a man experiences a mid-life crises it’s NOT because he’s getting old. It’s because his wife is.

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Rebel August 24, 2010 at 10:40

“Cohabitation is much better because you can get your freedom back with the snap of your fingers”

No this is not true. If you live with a woman long enough you become Common Law married. Is common law actually law or a statue in the U.S.???

— — —

I guess my mistake was to think that the laws are much the same everywhere. From what I gather, the laws in the U.S. are different from what they are in Quebec.
(Maybe we should be thankful to Napoleon for his code.)

Your comment does not invalidate my claims that cohabitation protects men, the U.S. being, apparently more unfavorable to men than in other places.

I must conclude that freedom is not part and parcel of life in the U.S. anymore. I feel sorry for you: you are in a “catch 22″ situation, apparently.

The workaround, it would seem, is then to stay with the woman for a period that does not exceed what the law sees as common law marriage, wether you love the woman or not.
In other words, press the “reject” button before time is up.

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misterb August 24, 2010 at 10:53

Cohabitation is worse than marriage. Legally a woman can shaft her boyfriend, or her banging partner. Either way a man has to deal the deck he has been given. Life is sometimes like the game of poker.

Laws are different in each country. In the US, laws favor women and homosexuals.

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Jabberwocky August 24, 2010 at 10:54

“Thursday Maxim #9

Women like being led and hate being controlled.”

This is from the “Man who is Thursday” blog.

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Herbal Essence August 24, 2010 at 11:03

RE: Cohabitation—

Cohabitation still leaves you very vulnerable to bogus domestic violence charges, theft, and “accidental” pregnancies (unless you get a vasectomy). Guys need to ask themselves: is a vagina at home REALLY worth as much drama as you’re going to go through, and potential disasters?

I’ve lived with two women in my life. The first time was actually quite pleasant. She was a cool girl. But I came to the conclusion she wasn’t going to get her ducks in a row in life and I was tired of being life coach. (10 years later, she still hasn’t)

The second time I moved in with someone, I regretted it within about a month. She only got more emotionally unstable as time went on, and there was no way I could get away from her unless I left the house. There was a week between when I broke up with her and when I moved out and that was easily the worst week of my life in terms of the male-female dynamic. I’m REALLY lucky she didn’t file bogus charges on me because she certainly was feminist-minded enough to do so.

Don’t get married, don’t cohabitate. Though some guys seem to have found a “third option” by marrying foreign women. Something I may consider in the future.

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Charles Martel August 24, 2010 at 11:04

You’ve hit the mother lode with this one, Welmer.

My guess is that many fathers are now telling their sons exactly how it is with women and marriage. Contrast that with what my father told me about women – nothing – and it’s a safe bet that the wheels are coming off Western civ. before too much longer.

All great civilizations collapse for similar reasons – moral decay, falling birth rates, ethnic dilution. What a comedy.

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dana August 24, 2010 at 11:07

if you are married to an extremely opposite, extremely feminine woman you can’t see being best friends with when you are both over the hill i don’t see how LTR game would work to improve YOUR happiness as a man.

its only worth it if most of the other ingredients of a great companionate marriage are already there and the ltr game keeps the edge of attraction and playfulness going.

my husband ltr games the shit out of me and i fuckin love it. the happiness and harmony it creates in our home only ADDS to what already is a best friendship. both of us are loners and homebodies by nature–both -ntjs (he’s an E, im an I). we are SO compatible that i think without the spark his dominance, humor and gamesmanship brings to the table it would be easy for us to suffer the hetero equivalent of lesbian bed death–sinking into a comfy brother and sister dynamic instead of a hot sexual one.

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Paradoxotaur August 24, 2010 at 11:09

“The workaround, it would seem, is then to stay with the woman for a period that does not exceed what the law sees as common law marriage”

Absa-frickin’-lutely. Tell her up front of the necessary expiration date for the relationship, and why. If you use an electronic calendaring system, put in a reminder. Near the end of the maximum term, send her an email, cc yourself (and perhaps a bcc to a trusted friend), and print it out so you have a time/date record of the termination of the relationship. Remember, it’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove.

The period is not necessarily co-extensive with the period for establishing common-law marriage, and women are 1) trying to make it much shorter, and 2) trying to make it hinge on certain events, regardless of how short the relationship has been in force (e.g., her saying in public ~ “Gee, I’m so excited to have moved in with my stupid, clueless, about-to-be-fleeced boyfriend, it’s like we’re married!”, while he says nothing.). It’s really best not to co-habit, or even to let her sleep over. I know many men who NEVER allow their girlfriends to stay overnight. They realize the modest best-case upside and the huge potential downside. Sleepovers are always at her place, while a quick bump-and-out might occur at his.

And women wonder why men don’t want to “commit”.

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Rebel August 24, 2010 at 11:14

Maybe we should’t mourn for this dying civilization: another one will spring up to life after the demise of this one.

And it will be a better one, one that men will more than gladly accept and participate in.

Let’s cast aside this decrepit civ. and look forward to what’s to come after.

Things never are are as bad as they seem. Western civ.’s time is up. Time to trash it.

The king is dead! Long live the king!

All things have to come to an end.

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3DShooter August 24, 2010 at 11:14

And women wonder why men don’t want to “commit”.

Ding, ding, ding – we have a winner. The price of feminism is that men are getting ‘scared straight’ when it comes to thinking through the full consequences of ‘relationships’.

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scatmaster August 24, 2010 at 11:21

Laura said

the first step is admitting that women aren’t this great prize to men in general.

Truer words were never spoken.
As a male I freely admit I am not the greatest prize in the world but I also have my good points.
I have found that a healthy majority of women have an over inflated opinion of themselves strictly because they have a vaj.

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misterb August 24, 2010 at 11:26

The key for men is not to be dominated by women. Lead your woman, don’t let her lead you.

In classic definition men are the leaders. The women are the followers.

Marriage and cohabitation are not what they used to be. Laws have been tweaked to make lives of men and children miserable.

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Robertt August 24, 2010 at 11:46

Amen to this article…every word is true.

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TFH August 24, 2010 at 11:51

The problem with Marriage nowadays is that at least one of two devastating things can happen to a man :

a) Divorce and financial ruin, against his will
b) The wife becomes obese.

Many men actually are inflicted with both. Men who avoid both are a minority.

Interestingly, neither of these 2 negatives were major risks in the Marriage 1.0 era. Also, women don’t face comparable risks in marriage.

While Game in marriage can help a man make the best of the situation, and save him from misery, there is no getting around that :
a) The level of Game it takes to make a marriage happy could similarly be applied to getting younger, hotter women.
b) That a man should learn something as challenging as Game, just to avoid financial ruin, is too much to ask of the average man.

So a man who learns Game BEFORE marriage most certainly should not marry. A man who learns Game AFTER marriage can, at best, make the situation somewhat better for himself.

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TFH August 24, 2010 at 11:54

The article and every comment here leads to the conclusion that guys should either not marry unless the are quite certain they found their soulmate, OR

Get a surrogate and donor eggs, and go it alone as a single dad.

This is not for every man. Only a few should attempt this, and that too if you have the resources to hire a nanny, etc.

But for a man who really, really wants to have a child, this would be one avenue that makes sense in this day and age.

Sure, two parents are the best. But feminism has ensured that this many in fact NOT be the best anymore.

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Augenblick August 24, 2010 at 11:55

I’m developing my law mongraph, the theme I choose was about changing the default division of property here in Brazil which is about the same as yours except alimony and child support which are decided in another no relative instance.
I would like to introduce the idea that the total division of property in which no property from one person would comunicate to another, so what one buys with his moneyor uses his name, would than be his property. Would be the more equitable way to go since here, women are the majority in the total population with grad courses and salaries over US$1500 which is a lot here.
Stay at home wifes alimony and children support are resolved in other instances.
So I would like some reasonable ideas even that falacious that would feminize my argument so I could expose it without being crushed and cursed.
A way I found to expose my ideas to women is telling this history “a woman got a house from her mother and now her drunk husband want to get divorce, that way she would not have to sell the house to pay him”. It works every time, but I’m facing regular womens not my teachers and white knights.

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Anonymous age 68 August 24, 2010 at 11:58

First, a comment on common law marriages. Y’all need to do some serious investigation of the laws where you live. The Common Law was, I believe, an English thing, and it was unwritten, unlegislated law which came down through history, and many judges historically recognized it as valid.

Common law is not necessarily binding, unless the courts in your state have said so, and have specifically ruled in support of it.

In reality, many if not most states, have specifically legislated laws to state that if you live with a woman under certain conditions you are considered to be married for property reasons. Since it is legislated law, it is NOT common law and to call it such is a misnomer.

It may be a length of time.

In one Midwestern state when I was doing legal research as an aid to my counseling divorced fathers, it had no time limit. In fact, if two strangers held themselves out as married, for example in general conversation, the previously unknown woman said, “This man is my husband,” and he does not instantly object, if she can convince a judge it happened, she can sue for property settlement and alimony.

Likewise if a man in that state picks up a hooker and checks into a cheap motel signing as husband and wife, the hooker can demand a property settlement from him, in that state.

But, you should also understand in many states the ‘marriage’ has no meaning at all, except she suddenly becomes owner of your assets, and can file the settlement claims.

In one Mexican political division, if a man lives with a woman not as his wife for 5 years, she can’t get anything, unless he dies while she still lives there, in which case she gets 1/5 of his estate.

In the state of Hidalgo, there is a legislated law in the civil code which says after living together a length of time, upon her petition, the courts will declare him to be her husband.

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cracker August 24, 2010 at 12:07

Since we’ve had questions posed before (such as what makes a woman attractive), I thought I’d ask this one then: What are a woman’s responsibilities as a wife?

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Anonymous age 68 August 24, 2010 at 12:07

Actually, when I said Common Law was unwritten, that was an error. Publishers like Blackstone did compile them into books for attorneys to learn. I actually meant unlegislated laws, as opposed to the man-trap laws today which are mostly legislated laws by wimpy legislators.

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Augenblick August 24, 2010 at 12:18

We were colonized by Portugal. ours system is different from common law, our laws are valid to all our territory, which are not at all influenced by juriprudency, yet ours legislators have predicted a situation analogous to marriage in 1996 which we call stable union, in which a person would have to live under the same roof, or economicaly depend on the other person to prove it, in which would be proving the purchase of a property as cohabitant.
Our problem is that in 2008 they passed the new intantanous divorce law, in which a person can divorce in the same day, without changing the marital property system. So now people can make fortunes overnight.

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Augenblick August 24, 2010 at 12:23

Excuse my bad English, I’m adapting on the fly terms like Jurisprudence, which in portuguese is Jurisprudęncia.

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Ghost August 24, 2010 at 12:24

Reading all this ‘game’, ‘alpha’, ‘beta’ business makes me feel like I’m in a cult.

Women and men should thoroughly get to know each other for years before making the marriage commitment, and each of them should truly mean the vows they make.

A man should make it clear from the very outset that he will not be a slave to some spendthrift’s credit card debt, and accordingly, he should not waste money too.

I think in this age, where nobody who is sane gets married until after 30, there should be no excuse not to know well and truly if your wife is going to meet her end of the bargain.

Having lawyers and cops miserable doesn’t exactly pull my heart strings.

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Augenblick August 24, 2010 at 12:29

Our system is based on exaustive list or “rol”, the legislator try to predict every situation in written law, so Nulla crimen sine lege (no crime without a law). Situation that I have never heard of since ours law codes are huge.

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Una Salus Victus August 24, 2010 at 13:22

This news report has sparked a musical movement. Ironically, it’s about an attempted rape, however, the brother of the alleged victim is so hilarious that he becomes the story. Im shocked they let him on the news in the first place. I think it’s beginning. This is the first step in trivializing rape. One thing the fems have forgotten is that whenever one saturates the market, their message will become trite and trivialized over time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0ywbtMZRFo

Once you view the news clip, you’ll see all the versions of the song that was created from it. This guy has gone viral and attained fame upon the back of an unimaginable “alleged” crime. The original video is as follows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw&NR=1

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Toz August 24, 2010 at 13:23

First time commenter, long time reader.

I like the content here, but I disagree with this post. It seems too much to me like you’re taking license to be a jerk in a marriage because the wife has the potential to be. It’s like the classic prisoner’s dilemma situation where you’re the one screwing the wife before she can screw you.

The correct thing to do would be to actually honor the commitment that marriage is supposed to be once you’re in it. And if you’re a single man and want to get married, this is what you should be looking for in a wife… The ability to uphold that commitment. Lack of this quality is exactly why wives leave husbands due to “boredom”.

Anyway, the example of the alpha cop with the spendthrift wife doesn’t seem so alpha to me. Part of good LTR game is punishing bad behavior, sexual or otherwise. Spending money you don’t have is definitely bad behavior that should be punished with varying degrees of negs, silence or anger depending on the severity. No matter how “alpha” this guy seems, at least in this area, he’s not and game can help him a lot.

The lawyer’s story sounds extremely beta. What can’t he do now that he couldn’t do when he was single? He probably doesn’t do those things because his wife forbids it. Some of it might be reasonable (don’t go have one-night stands). But others probably are not (stop playing poker with the boys on Sundays). Game would surely help this guy.

The corporate manager also seems beta. He most likely remarried because he was sick of being lonely. Again, game would help this guy.

I don’t see a clear case out of the ones you’ve mentioned that wouldn’t significantly be improved by good, tight game.

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Anonymous Reader August 24, 2010 at 13:24

Welmer asks if Game is worth it in marriage, concluding with this:
In short, Game cannot be a panacea without some balance in family law. Without a return to equity, women have no incentive to make themselves worthy of their husbands’ devoted efforts.

That depends on the woman in question, and her age. I’ve had some issues with my wife for the last few years, and have deliberately begun running Game on her along the lines of things I’ve read at
http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/

She’s begun to respond, including becoming concerned about her weight and physical condition. She’s not far over what she used to weigh, but I found her last night doing situps again for the first time in years. Sex has gotten better, and less “lie back and look at the ceiling” too.

One of the key facts had to do with a woman at work she knows, who divorced her husband a few years back, claiming infidelity. Maybe he was, maybe not, I don’t know. The point is, my wife went to someone’s in-office birthday party and talked to her friend, who just sent the youngest child off to college and now is upper 40′s and living alone. That conversation made an impression on my wife. She’s mentioned her friend a couple of times lately, in the context of how lonely she must be. I’ve basically just let her talk, and said nothing. My wife is smart enough to see that at least partly, her friend has made her own bed and is lying it it, alone. I believe that this is a factor in her response to Game; she sees what taking a husband for granted, and dumping him for whatever reason, leads to. And my wife ain’t all that fond of cats…

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red0660 August 24, 2010 at 13:32

Does anyone know of a male friendly country to move to? I’d like to find some comprehensive information on this.

Just somewhere where I wouldn’t lose my children and have the right to be a father. Default shared custody with no child support. I also want somewhere that does not have no-fault divorce.

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djc August 24, 2010 at 13:38

“Niko August 24, 2010 at 07:01

Bout time someone wrote about this, ‘wife gaming’ implies a man’s life must conform to the erratic whims of gina tingles. Blow that.”

I agree. I asked myself one day is it worth the effort? My answer….no, it’s not.

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Emperor Maximillian August 24, 2010 at 13:54

Put me in this camp. I got married about 3 years ago, and my wife got pregnant right away and quit her job to stay home with the kids. This was the plan — we both agreed. What wasn’t the plan was her gaining 100+ lbs., expected me to spend every moment that I’m not working tending to the child, nagging incessantly, wanting to spend hours just talking about stupid crap when I need to sleep and get up in the morning for work, etc.

Game has helped my relationship. I wish I knew about it beforehand. She now nags much less, and gives me time to hang out with other men. She hasn’t lost an ounce of weight, however. I’ve ballooned up 30lbs. too because she just refuses to cook things that are less than 4000 calories per serving. I stay at work late most nights just to avoid her. She now wants to have sex with me — a lot — but I’m simply not attracted to her any more, and that won’t change unless her waistline and attitude do.

I haven’t perfected my game. I still fail about 20% of shit tests, just because I’m naturally a very straight-forward person who takes what people say at face value, and I haven’t trained myself enough. Though I’m unwilling to cheat morally, after I get my weight down (started exercising and cutting down my portions), I’d like to go out to bars with my friends to get more practice flirting with single women and improve my frame.

What I want to know is what the hell do I have to do to get her to lose weight? She cries hysterically for hours, sometimes days, whenever I make any comment that could be considered critical about the way she looks. The shit tests that I always fail, because of this, are the “do you think I’m pretty?” ones — I always lie and say yes, because I don’t want to deal with the consequences. I don’t know how to do this right — I can’t just agree and amplify, because she does look like a beached whale, and she knows it.

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Alphabeta #2987 August 24, 2010 at 13:56

I’ve found Game to be very effective and satisfying but it always seems to circle me back to the same point, which is that all I’m really doing is simulating mastery over women. It doesn’t make me a better man, either for myself, my brother, my women, my children or my tribe. If I only have Game I’m little  more than Cleopatra’s chief consort. I want to be more than this, but am I made to be?

Looking at our basic genetic makeup, normal men are defined as humans with a single XY pair of sex chromosomes – X from mum and Y from dad. Normal women are defined as those with a double X – one X from each parent. There are many abnormal variations to this that result in viable offspring but the simplest of these might provide the crucial bit of information.

The embryology goes something like this: All viable embryos need to have at least one X-chromosome but if an embryo forms with only one X and no other sex chromosome – which it could have received from either parent – it will still go full term and grow into a healthy human with a normal life expectancy whereas an embryo without an X will not even be viable.  Thus, the X-chromosome could be called the basic unit of humanity.

The single-X individual is not normal though – since the gonads only develop in the presence of the second sex chromosome the single-X individual will be of indeterminate sex and completely infertile. Without any Y-chromosome to assert itself during the first trimester the individual’s sex organs will not have developed beyond the basic embryonic form – i.e it’s gonads will be inside the body and it will have a vagina. A child born with this condition will can live a perfectly normal life as a female but will never produce eggs. Such a person could be called the basic human unit, or perhaps even Eve Ensler’s ‘girl’ of the medically enhanced, deathless feminine future (bless her cotton socks).

The important thing to grasp out of all of this is that while all women carry a second X-chromosome they are not substantially different genetically to the basic human unit. The only real difference seems to be to render it fertile. Men, on the other hand, are not only designed to be fertile, but carry an entirely separate chromosome with a host of genetic capabilities beyond those of women. This indicates that, genetically, men have all the capabilities of women but also something substantially more. 

How might this manifest sociologically?Perhaps the genes on the Y-chromosome tell the story. The vast majority of them are rapidly mutating genes that geneticists believe are responsible for our versatility and adaptability as a species. In other words, the Y-chromosome carries genes that enable us to push the envelope, explore new territory and establish new protocols – i.e. ‘leadership’ genes.

The problem with Game is that it only simulates leadership. While it gets results in superficial ways it’s like cheating on an exam – it doesn’t make the Gamesman a better man. The genetic man does not express his natural leadership through Game, he does this by taking his own path. Leadership and mastery of women exists by default.

Our sex chromosomes pre-condition men to lead and women to follow. In other words, it’s entirely within men’s inherent power to put a stop to rampant feminism and it’s self-defeating consequences. Women need men to tell them when enough is enough. They need our explorers heart, our freshness of thought, our objectivity and our courage. The earth worm needs food and sunshine to bring it new life. Game just feeds the worm it’s own castings.

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ASF August 24, 2010 at 14:02

People should understand that there is no such thing as U.S. (i.e. federal) family law per se. Family law is state law. Whether common law marriages exist depends on where you live. For example, DC has common law marriage, while Maryland does not.

You can have co-habitation agreements just like pre-marital agreements. Do not have joint accounts. Do not get married. I’m divorced, and I am not re-marrying.

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Paradoxotaur August 24, 2010 at 14:22

Dear Niki and djc,

Gaming one’s wife is the opposite from what you apparently believe it to be. It’s about NOT conforming to her. Whether it is worth it or not is a personal decision; however, there is a continuum of Game to be applied and results to be obtained. It is not necessarily employed only for better sex, it can be used to reduce the number, length, or intensity of arguments, for example. It can be as simple as realizing it’s OK to say “No, I don’t want to go see Eat, Play, F**k with you and your girlfriends.”, and not have to justify or apologize for it.

Many men have been conditioned their entire lives to be subordinate to women. Game offers at least some of these men skills and techniques to counter that social conditioning (other men don’t need them, and yet others can’t or won’t incorporate them). It does not require you to become someone you’re not any more than learning to read or write required you to. Many men refuse to believe taking an action contrary to every fiber in their conditioned being will result in a superior outcome, but there are many, many testimonials that bear witness to the effectiveness of this stuff. In some cases, it’s almost as if a man says “Watch this- I can fly!”, and then flies away.

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red0660 August 24, 2010 at 14:35

UPDATE: I will be moving to become a member of the Sagiosbiubac tribe of the Amazonian jungle.

They say that men have families there! They say men are allowed to have children and to be a father! If the woman leaves you she can’t take your children away!

They say that she can’t make the man move to a small empty hut and send her over 50% of his food every moon cycle! Or be placed inside a bamboo cage like in America.

They say that it is some sort of mutually dependent and consummate bond they call matron. Very strange.

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Gunslingergregi August 24, 2010 at 15:23

””””””My cop friend is totally “alpha” as far as the term is understood in the manosphere. He doesn’t take any crap from his wife, stands his ground, and buries shit tests immediately. However, he is far from happy in his marriage. His wife, although she complains at times, is devoted to him, but he just isn’t all that interested. He told me this evening that he’s sick of sex with her, is at his wits’ end about her irresponsible spending, and would rather be spending more time with his kids than working 12 hours a day to pay off credit card debts that she runs up. ”””””””””””””’

This would be the perfect example of beta not alpha.
He is not living how he wants. He is letting the woman control everything even though he doesn’t like it.
He is letting her spend money they don’t have.
But yea you really can’t game a woman in the us unless you are noble.
There is really no point to it.
Have the surrogate kids so that you have your own children and then go ahead and get it snipped and have girlfriend to help out.
Or make sure you save up enough loot together that you both don’t have to work in order to raise a family. Fuck the bullshit. I am enjoying the heck out of not having to work and helping raise my son. I got more work to do though.

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Gunslingergregi August 24, 2010 at 15:26

””””””’red0660 August 24, 2010 at 14:35
UPDATE: I will be moving to become a member of the Sagiosbiubac tribe of the Amazonian jungle.

They say that men have families there! They say men are allowed to have children and to be a father! If the woman leaves you she can’t take your children away!

They say that she can’t make the man move to a small empty hut and send her over 50% of his food every moon cycle! Or be placed inside a bamboo cage like in America.

They say that it is some sort of mutually dependent and consummate bond they call matron. Very strange.
””””””’

Funny part is you would probably enjoy it as a man.
Save your loot get a paycheck coming in from investments and have a good time.

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Gunslingergregi August 24, 2010 at 15:32

And hell no monogamous marriage isn’t worth it. Your giving up what for what?
Fuck that.

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Gunslingergregi August 24, 2010 at 15:37

Here is another point to on putting before marriage what you expect out of the woman.

Make list of shit for her to do.

Then when she doesn’t do it you can refer back to list and she has nothing to stand on.
For some reason woman don’t make a list either.
They expect it all.
Verbalize that shit over and over of what you expect.
before marriage.
We know some guys gonna do it.
If you do it very easy to protect yourself.
Make list.
Of the bad shit you keep hearing about that if she does gives you option to walk with a clear consciense

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Keyster August 24, 2010 at 16:12

Common law marriage is very state specific.
Google “common law marriage by state”.
Co-habitating is not nearly as simple and safe as most people believe. I’ve known some guys that thought they were safe because they weren’t “legally married”, and lost small fortunes when cupcake wanted out. Of course, like other “family law” areas, it depends greatly on the county and or judge you stand before as well; how he or she “interprets” common law as it relates to cupcake’s lawyer’s demands. Most guys know nothing about this, many women however do.

It’s real simple.
Just don’t do it.

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3DShooter August 24, 2010 at 16:41

@Emperor Max

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but she’s pretty much got you by the short hairs until the pups are at least 18 (depending on where you live even longer).

Do you really think she’ll shed those lb’s? Do you really think the nagging will someday subside? Is her mother like that? And from the sound of it she cannot even have a logical and rational discussion of the topic with out melting into female histrionics. These are not good signs . . .

Unless and until she can get to a point where she can deal with close personal issues with you in an open cogent way it will become a breeding ground for the typical female passive/aggressive behavior. That is how when the narcissist personality will reveal itself. Be very careful.

I’m not going to tell you to walk out on your family, I would never do that, but be aware of where this all too often leads and be ever vigilant especially with issues like spending and where she spends her time when you are working.

If it looks like it is headed to the shitter, it is better to hit the flush valve before 10 years expires (some states that become a sentence of alimony for life). At least that way you can protect your Social Security (assuming it even exists in the next few years). Right now she can go into a fit over anything at all and walk with the house, half your ass(ets) and get a C$ check for years into the future.

Cover your ass now while you still can!!!

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Captain No Marriage August 24, 2010 at 16:42

The last two paragraphs nailed it. Women have nothing to lose in marriage because the court system backs them up. Men are guilty until proven innocent and even then they still have to pay.

Hell, even if Tiger’s wife had cheated on him with 15 different people, she would still get a massive payday.

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red0660 August 24, 2010 at 16:56

Ok I spoke to a coworkers in India he tells me women only get woman support alimony if the man leaves. Even this is contingent upon whether she is able to get her own job and support herself. He says that there is no no-fault divorce and that divorce rates are extremely low.

He said the rate is higher in the upper class but it is still only a 20% divorce rate. It is much lower for the rest of the population. There marriage is a legally binding commitment and you can’t obtain a divorce for no reason. It is mandatory or expected that the couple seek counseling if it is found that there is reason for divorce. A stay period of six months is enacted during this time in hopes the family can work through its issues.

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Laura August 24, 2010 at 17:02

Emperor Max,
She knows she has a weight problem, it just sounds like she is incapable of facing up to it and dealing with it. First, keep as little junk food as possible in the house. Second, sit and eat meals with her to shame her into eating less. Lastly, stop having sex with her. She needs to understand that you no longer find her desirable because of her weight. If she starts to lose weight make sure you notice and compliment her on it. As a reward for losing weight you can start to gradually show her love and affection again.

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Anonymous August 24, 2010 at 17:14

Don’t get it, huh? Common law was unlegislated law coming down from the the English. Common law did indeed state a couple would be considered as married after a time, by memory I think two years. There are few places in the US where common law marriage issues are currently enforced. The governments of most states have replaced it all with legislated laws.

In fact, though I did my best, I was unable to follow all 50 states. If anyone knows any state where English common law is enforced by the courts, please let us know. Most courts have rejected common law because it actually gives citizens some rights, once in a while, and courts want complete control.

Legislated laws which grant a woman part of her shack-up’s property under certain conditions have nothing to do with common law.

The reason men get f’d by the courts is because they don’t learn anything about the legal system and the laws and the courts and how they work. Women talk a lot; they teach other how it works, and they are ready to go when they file, while most men base their knowledge of the law and courts on the 4th of July speeches and their buddies at the bar.

I supplied no-fee counseling to an estimated 1,600+ men from 1984 till 1993. I did tremendous amounts of legal research so I could accurately teach them what they were facing. Often, they would do the exact opposite of what they needed to do, and what they were told they probably should do. After they lost everything in a big blaze of stupidity, they’d call back to whine. I’d ask why they didn’t do what they were told they had to do. They’d say, “Well, my buddies at the bar told me you were wrong.” Then, they’d tell everyone “The Fathers Rights guy didn’t help me.”

Also, be aware these laws do not in any state I was able to track actually confer marriage status on anyone. It confers property rights, usually as part of a court suit more like divorce than anything. I know of no state where a woman can apply and receive a marriage certificate by proving she had lived with a man under the needed conditions. They tell her to apply for a marriage license and get married.

I am sure some of you are thinking, “What is this idiot babbling about? What difference does it make what you call it?”

The difference is, courts deal in exact meanings of words and phrases. If you want to gain anything from a court, you need to know those meanings, or you are going to get wiped out.

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Anonymous August 24, 2010 at 17:16

“A woman should not expect her husband to shower her with gifts and sweep her off her feet with romantic inane sweet talk. More often than not he is concentrating on his job and is focused on supporting his wife and kids. His wife should be making the effort to keep the love and sex fresh and exciting.. I get a kick out of sending hubby sexually explicit text messages while he is at work… Giving him a back rub ( and whispering suggestive things in his ear) and a cold beer (a prerequisite after a hard days work) when he gets home from work.”

No. All that you say is ridiculous and counters everything from this article. Instead of having him game you want him to be real and loyal all for just sex and gratitude. Its as if your some great prize he

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Anonymous age 68 August 24, 2010 at 17:26

So, any idea what will happen, Red, if you go to the Amazon and crawl into a hut with one of their chicks? Life expectancy: <10 seconds.

The PI has no divorce, none at all.

I live in Mexico, and they have some laws on the books that sound feminist. And at times, men assume it is feminist, because they don't understand what enables feminism.

All truly feminist nations provide substitute husbands for women, in the form of a minimum living standard based on a check from the government. First, the nation gets government welfare, then a few years later, women figure it out, and start living like pigs, because they know they will be taken care of no matter what they do.

No woman in Mexico is going to dump her husband just because she isn't happy. There is no welfare system of any consequence, and they see other women with kids, begging in the street.

They have DV laws here, but once in a while a woman will get hit, usually after hitting him, or screaming insults when he is drunk. She goes to the cops, and complains. They cart him off to jail. Two or three days later she runs out of food, and realizes what she has done. So she goes back to the cops and begs them to let him out of jail, the kids have to eat.

Then, she runs home and hides under the bed. She knows what his first order of business will be.

Women here tell me most DV is a result of a woman hitting him, or insulting him when he is drunk.

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Avenger August 24, 2010 at 17:29

Well now for some good news.

Just separated from her husband and awaiting results from the bar exam, Irina Shekhets flew to Nepal on a spiritual journey, hoping to clear her head and find a “new beginning,” said a friend.

Instead, Shekhets met with tragedy Tuesday aboard a rickety Nepalese turbo-prop aircraft that came apart in the sky, killing her and 13 others.

Shekhets, 30, of Fair Lawn, NJ, was about to start a hiking trip to Mount Everest base camp when the 15-seat twin-engine Agni Air plane went down about 50 miles south of Kathmandu. No one survived.

“She was a free spirit. She had a lot of energy and wanted to enjoy life,” said Irina Kogan, 32, of Brooklyn.

Irina Shekhets
Her story sounds like the plot of the new Julia Roberts movie “Eat, Pray, Love.”

“She went to Nepal because she was looking for a spiritual experience,” said Kogan. “She wanted to clear her mind. She was looking for a new beginning. She was looking for meaning.”

Shekhets’ grieving parents, Boris and Natyasha Shekhets, were on their way to Kathmandu last night to retrieve her remains.

Her last Facebook update told of her eagerness to get on with her trip. “Finally, made it to Kathmandu, and now can’t seem to get out,” she wrote. “Waiting at airport for a flight to Lukla .¤.¤. Counting the minutes to the mountain.”

Lukla is the jumping-off point for trekkers headed to the Nepal side of Mount Everest.

Shekhets loved learning — her friends used to tease her: “When are you going to start medical school?”

She was valedictorian of her Fair Lawn HS class, and graduated from Columbia University in 2002 and Brooklyn Law School this year.

“She wanted to be everything, and she was. Everything she did, she was successful at,” said her sister, Mariana Shamis.

“Every time I was in trouble I went to her. Everyone did,” said her sister as she choked back tears.

“She was full of life. She always wanted to learn.”

Shekhets was on leave from her job as an analyst for JP Morgan Chase. Friends said she wasn’t sure what kind of law she wanted to practice.

“She enjoyed hiking, but this was the first trek she took,” said Felix Shamis, 38, her brother-in-law.

“She was a beautiful person, both inside and outside,” said the brother-in-law, who was training with Shekhets for the New York City Marathon.

The German-built aircraft developed mechanical trouble before it went down, said a report in The Times of India.

Area residents reported hearing a a loud explosion before the aircraft went down in a remote area. It was several hours before Nepalese soldiers and police reached the crash scene.

The dead included Shekhets and three other American women, as well as three other foreigners. The rest of the victims were Nepalese, including the pilot, co-pilot and flight attendant.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/nepal_crash_kills_knLSuoN5nuCAUl9ZWwS1tN#ixzz0xZcu8Fla

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Anonymous age 68 August 24, 2010 at 17:33

Fat women with no discipline cannot follow any diet except a weight gain diet. But, the Atkins or similar low carb diet does not involve hunger. No one is going to lose 100 pounds by being hungry; it does not happen.

And women 100 pounds over weight are going to permanently harm themselves with any exercise program.

Her stupid doctor may have told her to eat a high carb, low fat diet which is a hunger, gain weight, diabetes diet for most haplotypes.

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Hawaiian Libertarian August 24, 2010 at 18:06

This is a good post Welmer.

I especially co-sign on this point:

“It seems to me that if men are expected to maintain some level of alpha behavior around women, they need a woman who’s worth it. Therefore, making a marriage work is not only on the shoulders of the man — it’s up to wives as well.”

Married men who discover the masculine blogosphere, and proceed to “take the red pill,” will have to come to a moment of decision upon realization of their current situations and having the full knowledge of the dangers of the divorce system and the role of hypergamy in his woman’s behavior…and make his choice to leave or to stay…and that choice has to be predicated entirely on whether or not you think she is worth it.

As for Anonymous 68 wrote…yes, low-carb, primal diet will make any fat person lose the weight and keep it off.

If you’re wife cooks a lot of high-carb food that fattens you up, than you need to take over the kitchen for yourself.

You cannot force anyone to do something.

You can only lead by your example and see if she’s smart enough to recognize the truth when she sees it manifest.

Do your research and realize that just as the mass media has lied to us all about gender roles to emasculate men and masculinize women, so too has the media sold us all a bill of goods on just what is “healthy” eating.

Once you figure out the truth, and you apply it, the results will become obvious in short order. Losing 30 lbs. in 3-4 months is a dramatic transformation that she will be unable to ignore…especially since she has a front row seat in watching precisely how you changed your dietary lifestyle to achieve it.

When people ask me how I lost all that weight and kept it off, the “low-carb/high-natural protein/high-natural fat/no processed foods, no sugars diet” response usually triggers a media conditioned reaction of disbelief. They either think I’m lying, or that it’s a fluke diet that will inevitably result in the yo-yo effect like other fad diets.

But she will see first hand how it works.

In my case, I literally commandeered the kitchen. I gave her the choice of eating what I was eating…or we can both cook for ourselves. But I will no longer eat the kind of foods that she was preparing that was making us both gain weight.

If she’s too dumb to follow your good example, than kick her fat ass to the curb. If you plan it right, you can instigate the divorce process and avoid most of the dangers of the misandrist family court system. If you have kids, I would say that you should bide your time and put up with her until the kids are 18 or out of the house.

Men who are prepared for it, and who go about it properly, can certainly “win” in divorce court. If she’s not worth gaming because you are not attracted to her, than be decisive and take action to rectify the situation.

Life is too short to be married to someone you can’t stand.

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3DShooter August 24, 2010 at 18:12

@Emperor Max

With all due respect to Laura, who I truly believe tries to understand men’s issues, I would offer that her advice be taken very cautiously. Though she doesn’t realize it, but what she has suggested is that you pander to the inner passive/aggressive narcissist that may be lurking in the shadows. Far too many women want and need this – and I speak as someone who has walked that path.

Yes, she knows she’s putting on the lb’s – but she can’t talk about it and won’t act on it, huge red flag. She doesn’t see that she is nagging and bullying to get her way, huge red flag.

Until, and only when, it can be openly and rationally discussed these issues without histrionics it will be an aggravating splinter that leads to bad behavior. It is the vane nature of women to behave that way – probably more an issue of nurture than nature, but that is another discussion.

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fondueguy August 24, 2010 at 18:19

@Kathy August 24, 2010 at 07:32

No. Everything you say is ridiculous and goes again the point of this article. You say how you don’t want your Guy to do childish gaming, but instead be real and hardworking/loyal all for just your sex and gratitude. Its as if you think you are a prize and that by strategically giving him recognition you are making his work and dedication worth while. You seem to lack both modesty and work ethic which is what a tratition “real” woman would have (in case your trying to do the traditional “he’s the breadwinner”). I feel sorry for the poor sap when you assert that sex is one of your significant contributions to the marriage. Sex should be mutual and a given in a marriage, not a gift. Most woman wouldn’t like it if their husband didn’t have sex with them anyways. Not to mention the fact that your aging, hell lose a lot of sex drive, and you the same person he has sex with over and over. The point is that he is also putting work into the sex…

A man needs genuine dedication in a marriage and not just sex and ego patting.

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Gunslingergregi August 24, 2010 at 18:28

Hawaiian Libertarian

Yea I got to my home with my woman and don’t eat processed foods. I went from 240 to 205 in 6 months. So yea it does seem to be about no processed shit. Although I did eat bread and beef and potatoes in large quantity.

fondueguy

Yea I don’t understand the sex as a chore for woman part. That is basically my reward to my woman for being a good girl.

I mean sure if I expected her to just suck me off every day that would be diferent but when she orgasms more than I do it is really hard to say I am getting the better end of the deal on sex.

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David Collard August 24, 2010 at 19:07

“Game” is worth it in a marriage, in my experience. I get most of what I want from my wife using natural game, and a bit of conscious game I have developed recently. As for fat and frigid, she is thinning down nicely under my tutelage, and all threats to limit sex are overcome.

If she holds back sex, hold back affection. Works like a charm.

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Pro-male/Anti-feminist Tech August 24, 2010 at 19:13

My cop friend is totally “alpha” as far as the term is understood in the manosphere. He doesn’t take any crap from his wife, stands his ground, and buries shit tests immediately. However, he is far from happy in his marriage. His wife, although she complains at times, is devoted to him, but he just isn’t all that interested. He told me this evening that he’s sick of sex with her, is at his wits’ end about her irresponsible spending, and would rather be spending more time with his kids than working 12 hours a day to pay off credit card debts that she runs up.

Doesn’t this show that game has limited effectiveness in marriage? How well can a married man do when his wife knows she can cash out at any time and the government acts as super alpha male?

If an actual alpha like your friend Welmer can’t get his wife to stop her reckless spending then game can not save you in marriage.

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David Collard August 24, 2010 at 19:17

This cop doesn’t sound like a real alpha, not a woman’s alpha. Women often find action men a bit funny, and easy to get around. I am a fairly quiet scientist, and my wife asks my permission to spend even small sums of money. Not all alphas are alike.

Another point: don’t marry a spendthrift.

Also, how you can be sick of sex with a woman? They all come in the same basic model. I am still banging my wife happily, after 25 years.

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Welmer August 24, 2010 at 19:17

Doesn’t this show that game has limited effectiveness in marriage? How well can a married man do when his wife knows she can cash out at any time and the government acts as super alpha male?

If an actual alpha like your friend Welmer can’t get his wife to stop her reckless spending then game can not save you in marriage.

-PMAFT

Yeah, that’s pretty much the point. Game helps, but it has its limitations, and we’ve got to be honest about that.

Without some major changes in the law, plenty of guys will continue to get a raw deal no matter how alpha they are.

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Paradoxotaur August 24, 2010 at 19:31

Hi Dave, thanks for dropping in on this thread. Regarding: “and that choice has to be predicated entirely on whether or not you think she is worth it.”

I would modify that for cases were children are involved, since divorce for men with children often includes being ejected from their lives, as well as a potential consideration of his lifestyle or home, since men are also typically dispossessed of their home. In other words, I think for a lot of men the decision is a bit more complicated than simply “is she worth it?”

One huge issue for men with children is the realization that their beautiful children will be left with a shallow, immature, self-absorbed nut job with no protections or guidance from a loving father (and in many cases, if daughters are involved, you can add the aspect of either a constant parade of strange men through his daughter’s home, or perhaps mom’s edgy new boyfriend/drug dealer living there). Game can help convert a hell-on-earth situation to one that’s at least tolerable until the children get a bit older (and when they become rebellious teenagers – TAG, you’re IT, baby!). In such situations, Game isn’t done to give her G-tingles, it’s done to maintain an incrementally more balanced living situation, to reduce conflit, and to find brief moments of sanity.

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David Collard August 24, 2010 at 19:40

Not sure about America, but here in Australia there is no actual law against men having fun with their wives. Game can not just help you get the upper hand, which is all-important in my long experience, but it can help you have fun with your wife.

You can fine-tune her behaviour, so she is just what you want. The way a wife should be. I want her in skirts – she wears skirts. I want my breakfast served a particular way – she serves it that way. I want something in bed – I get it. That is game.

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Hawaiian Libertarian August 24, 2010 at 19:44

Paradoxataur, I concur 100%…

…which is why I wrote: “If you have kids, I would say that you should bide your time and put up with her until the kids are 18 or out of the house. “

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trent13 August 24, 2010 at 19:47

Too bad the whole idea of a wife being a good wife b/c it’s her duty to be a good wife went out the window – now it’s a choice, or men should feel like they have been patronized with some grand gift in their choice of woman.

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Pro-male/Anti-feminist Tech August 24, 2010 at 20:00

Yeah, that’s pretty much the point. Game helps, but it has its limitations, and we’ve got to be honest about that.

Agreed and this is something that really has been missing from the roissysphere. There’s too much game triumphalism around which leads to beliefs that if a woman does something bad to you it’s your fault because your game wasn’t good enough. This idea is absurd and should not be tolerated.

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Hawaiian Libertarian August 24, 2010 at 20:12

…which leads to beliefs that if a woman does something bad to you it’s your fault because your game wasn’t good enough. This idea is absurd and should not be tolerated.

It’s not really that black and white, PMAFT. It’s absurd to blame everything on the failures of the man to understand game…but that doesn’t absolve him of his behaviors either.

If a woman wears slutty clothes while she is drunk in a bad part of town in the middle of the night…is it her fault if she gets raped?

If a man gets married and is clueless about his wife’s hypergamous nature, and she rapes him in divorce court because she’s bored…is it his fault he got raped?

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Gunslingergregi August 24, 2010 at 20:48

””””’Agreed and this is something that really has been missing from the roissysphere. ”””””’

Be noble and you won’t get fucked with by woman.

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Kathy August 24, 2010 at 21:16

“You say how you don’t want your Guy to do childish gaming, but instead be real and hardworking/loyal all for just your sex and gratitude.”

Ah… Nope.. Never said that at all Fondueguy.

And.. I don’t think that I am a prize either. I am just a woman who loves her husband, who can at times be a right pain, who needs to be put in her place. :)

“A man needs genuine dedication in a marriage and not just sex and ego patting.”

Of course a man needs dedication in a marriage.

I take my wedding vows very seriously.

The fact that I have been faithfully married for fourteen years to my wonderful loving husband, given him two children, looked after his needs, supported him in his business endeavours and kept house is .. um.. sorta like dedication wouldn’t you say?

That I do things to keep the physical aspects of our marriage from stagnating has nothing to do with ego, and all to do with love. I have seen too many marriages that have become boring and lifeless. The couples drift apart..
The wife gets too caught up with the kids, hubby suffers as a result with the physical aspect of their marriage left wanting.

Marriage with kids is hard work for a couple. It is not always easy to spend time alone just the two of you..however a balance needs to be struck.

Too often a woman who cuddles her child forgets that hubby too needs some cuddles and affection.

” The point is that he is also putting work into the sex…”

And you know this because??? Lol..

I don’t think he is putting WORK into sex when I get woken up at 2 in the morning.
I don’t think he is putting work into it when he often comes home for an hour a few time times a week.

That’s not work it’s fun…

The text messages back rubs etc are not work for me either, I enjoy that stuff as does hubby. I keep fit and exercise every day, too. It’s part of how I show him that I love him. And he reciprocates. These things enhance a relationship.

Making love is a normal enjoyable and bonding experience..Nothing egotistical about it, because each seeks to please the other physically.

It’s not all about sex.. It’s about love and affection, too.

If all there was.. was sex in a marriage then it would eventually founder.. Love , companionship, respect, and common goals and shared interests are all part and parcel of a happy marriage.

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3DShooter August 24, 2010 at 22:06

@Kathy

Too often a woman who cuddles her child forgets that hubby too needs some cuddles and affection.

This is very true and symptomatic of women using men as a means to an end rather than a source of continuing strength and companionship.

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white and nerdy August 24, 2010 at 22:09

would rather be spending more time with his kids than working 12 hours a day to pay off credit card debts that she runs up.

Here we have evidence game doesn’t exist. If a real live alpha can’t get a woman to stop her behavior then game doesn’t exist. Since this man got married expect a divorce eventually.

Even if you really believe game exists there can not be game in marriage. All you know is that you aren’t divorced yet. That is not the result of game but of other factors like your wife deciding that right now is not the optimal time to divorce you. Married gamers can’t deal with the cognitive dissonance of being married and knowing the truth about women so they are likely to come up with conspiracy theories and blame everything from rich dudes to lizard aliens from Planet X just to avoid realizing that the real threat is sleeping next to them.

Married men should not be listed to on game because they are not in the position of actually having to do the real work of attracting and getting a woman.

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tweell August 24, 2010 at 23:04

There are no magic wands that save marriages, don’t expect Game to do so. It’s a tool, no more, no less. What it can do is help a bit – a relationship that has lost some zing will benefit from Game, one where there is hatred will not.
Now, if you did in fact get married, why would you get a divorce for boredom’s sake? That’s what women do, men should at least try to live up to their word. LTR Game is a way to help the relationship along. This might be a cliche, but ‘it’s for the children’, and if you have them, it really is.

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Robert August 25, 2010 at 01:17
Toz August 25, 2010 at 08:13

It’s not really that black and white, PMAFT. It’s absurd to blame everything on the failures of the man to understand game…but that doesn’t absolve him of his behaviors either.

Agreed. I actually think 90% of the failures can be solved by game. Say progress is slow and it takes 1 year to get to the point where most of the problems are solved. Isn’t it better to take that year to improve yourself in this way than to get a divorce which will ruin you in almost every way possible?

The title of this post “is game in marriage always worth it?” is an obvious yes in my book. Even if you end up getting screwed anyway, at least you’ve improved yourself to the point where you’re not screwed quite as hard.

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Badger Nation August 25, 2010 at 08:38

“So what do we have to offer these men? Sure, we criticize women for leaving because they are merely “unhappy,” but shouldn’t we take into account that men are sometimes unhappy in their marriages as well?”

I think we’re missing a distinction. A true marital mismatch produces true unhappiness, a nagging, soul-destroying angst that burns deeper every day you rip a new page off that one-a-day Dilbert desk calendar. The men you describe are in that. This true unhappiness does happen with women as well.

But all the reading I’m doing about “walkaway wives” (think EPL) is that they are substituting instantaneous emotion for a rational evaluation of their lives. Any number of predictable bumps in the road – having kids, returning to work, empty-nest – that produce emotional troughs are leveraged to initiate a self-loathing “I’m not haaapppy!” feedback loop. That’s not unhappiness – that’s lacking resiliency, and destroying the lives around you in the process because you don’t have enough discipline (or you’ve listened to too many fairy tales) to reinvent your relationship the way all of them need.

Betty Freidan had a really good point that women wanted more than to be in the kitchen and nursery. Nothing wrong with that. Where it got out of control was the focus on fleeting impulses, the martyr complexes, the “me-first” narcissism, and wacky books like The Female Eunuch that alleged a conspiratorial plot to subsume women under the needs of men and families. THAT’s what’s behind the EPL-style “I’m not haaappy!” ejection-seat pulls.

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Badger Nation August 25, 2010 at 10:14

Emperor Max,

“What I want to know is what the hell do I have to do to get her to lose weight? She cries hysterically for hours, sometimes days, whenever I make any comment that could be considered critical about the way she looks.”

This brings up a good point. Like most white American guys, I was raised with this deferential training to never talk about a woman’s weight under any circumstances. I’ve been told it produces insufferable emotional pain.

The question I have is, what about a man’s emotional pain? If a guy’s girl is stuffing herself, not exercising and blowing up, is he wrong to feel neglected and pained that his girl won’t make a reasonable effort to look good and be healthy? I’ve dealt with this personally and the most hurtful thing isn’t the reduced attractiveness – it’s the attitude of “you’re not good enough for me to get my ass into shape.”

I’m guessing most of the clucksterhood WILL say the man is wrong to be bothered, because it’s hostile and abusive for him to expect his partner to take care of herself, and it fits with their normal image of men as emotionless robots who should just deal with her whims and faults without complaint.

Not to mention no one ever trains women to not attack men in the same way. In the beauty-provider gender dichotomy, saying “you’re fat” to a woman is like saying “you’re a loser” to a man – a direct attack on their market value.

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redshirt August 25, 2010 at 10:27

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

It’s an amateur that learns game and thinks its the answer to everything. Too many times I’ve seen and heard about guys who try to AMOG their boss in the boardroom only to get their ass fired and wonder why it doesn’t work, or “game” their female boss and then either get their ass fired, a sexual harassment suit or blackmailed. Wrong tool for the wrong context.

“Game”, if we were to define it as a series of behaviors that attract a woman and entice her to sexual compliance, is great for dating, but imo like the business example, it’s the wrong tool for the wrong context for other life situations.

The other thing I would like to point out is that Roissy (whose blog I greatly enjoy and have a lot of respect for) from what I understand is not and has never been married. I’d sooner take the word of someone who actually has actual experience. Roissy has tons of experience swooping girls, so I respect his advice on swooping girls. I wouldn’t take marriage advice from Roissy any more than I would take investment or career advice from Roissy because he does not have the experience or the qualifications. In short, “game” is just one tool for one specific context, it is not the answer to everything.

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Badger Nation August 25, 2010 at 10:27

“the first step is admitting that women aren’t this great prize to men in general.”

This is obviously a dynamite concept most men won’t be able to handle. And it only goes so far. But it’s amazing how, for me, once I washed away the fantasy notion – i.e. once I got good enough for women to actually be available to me – I realized I found most women, even physically attractive ones, too boring and uninteresting to contemplate an LTR.

This is not a gender thing. This simply backed up how I felt about men in the world, I find most of them (platonically) boring too. All the more reason I spend most of my time with a relatively small but well-vetted and committed cohort of good friends.

I think one problem with marriage and mid-life crises and all the rest is that a lot of men, geeks and losers from childhood, are so validated by any female attention their sensors get washed out, and they either marry her, or don’t get realigned properly when it’s time to choose to marry someone else, and wind up with a product they’ll lose interest in.

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Badger Nation August 25, 2010 at 10:48

“I supplied no-fee counseling to an estimated 1,600+ men from 1984 till 1993. I did tremendous amounts of legal research so I could accurately teach them what they were facing. Often, they would do the exact opposite of what they needed to do, and what they were told they probably should do. After they lost everything in a big blaze of stupidity, they’d call back to whine. I’d ask why they didn’t do what they were told they had to do. They’d say, “Well, my buddies at the bar told me you were wrong.” Then, they’d tell everyone “The Fathers Rights guy didn’t help me.””

Plenty of guys get majorly F’d by misandrist white-knighting judges, evil attorneys, lying wives, etc etc, but so far as I can see for both civil and criminal law, the number one factor in bad outcomes is incompetent counsel.

Men, get a lawyer, now. BEFORE you need one, so you can grow to trust him and get regular low-level advice. If you’re considering marriage, you should both have attorneys already, so you can arrange the prenup so it will hold up in court. Get one who is familiar with family law in your area and has a track record of winning for male clients.

Failing that, at least get a lawyer friend (not hard, they’re everywhere), so HE can evaluate the guy you actually retain if and when you need to go to court (and once that happens). So much of law is networking and word of mouth, you need someone plugged into that.

Don’t fall for romantic notions like “well why do I need a lawyer if I’m innocent?” That’s EXACTLY why you need one – you are NOT going to get any better of a shake than the case your lawyer can make.

And for God’s sake, don’t get on globalman’s bandwagon that if you don’t respond to the court’s complaint, you are spiritually immune from the reaches of the legal system.

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Avenger August 25, 2010 at 10:49

It’s an amateur that learns game and thinks its the answer to everything. Too many times I’ve seen and heard about guys who try to AMOG their boss in the boardroom only to get their ass fired and wonder why it doesn’t work, or “game” their female boss and then either get their ass fired, a sexual harassment suit or blackmailed. Wrong tool for the wrong context.

That’s because these amateurs are natural betas and omegas and don’t know the meaning of subtlety. And I suggest that you always act from a position of power which means that there is no way you can be retailiated against, Always make certain that you have something you can use against someone and know where all the skeletons are hidden and you won’t be fired(you’ll be promoted) and no female would even think of screaming sex harassment or try to blackmail you.

No married man can be an Alpha anymore after marriage. You’re now a husbonda from the AS meaning a house bound man, a tamed pussy who has to compromise on every little thing and whose wife knows everything about you(it’s like inviting a spy to live in your house) which means she now has the power.

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Thag Jones August 25, 2010 at 10:56

Laura August 24, 2010 at 08:34

Uncle Elmer,
You’re probably right that having that outlet would help married men be more content in their marriages. What their wife doesn’t know isn’t going to hurt her anyway. She shouldn’t ask too many questions.

This makes me wonder – in all sincerity – why is it that it is OK for a married man to use prostitutes because his wife got fat but a cheating wife is the lowest of the low according to most commenters here? Does what he doesn’t know not hurt him either?

What if it’s the man who gets fat? I’ve been with men who got pudgy while I was with them, while my weight stayed the same (under 130lbs, 5’5″ – and it’s stayed around 130 even since having two kids and pushing 40). I do sympathize with a man who’s wife lets herself go (unless he also lets himself go) as I think it’s a responsibility of both parties to maintain themselves. If you didn’t marry a fat person, you don’t want to find yourself with a fat person 10 years down the line (or a lot less than that, in many cases).

I just don’t understand the mentality of letting yourself go just because you’re married – if I go over 130 I start to not like how I look much and I do something about it. I know from experience how difficult it is to be with someone you no longer find attractive and they don’t seem to want to do anything about it. :-/ There’s not much that’ll kill desire faster than watching someone who is already gaining weight sit on the couch and stuff his/her face with junk food.

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Badger Nation August 25, 2010 at 11:15

Apropos to stamping out bad behavior with expectations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzgRxUav3Jk&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Baby girl playing with dog, whips him in the face with his dog toy. Adults around laugh and coo at how cute it is. The first problem here is that in both dogs and kids, you have to project their behavior into later life and ask if that’s the way they should act. For instance a puppy jumping on the furniture is cute; an adult dog is a bad – ergo, don’t let the puppy jump on the furniture. Same with a kid who does things like push other kids around, talk back, abuse the family animals, or throw manipulative tantrums. If you don’t stamp it out as soon as they’re old enough to understand it’s bad, you’ll fix it as normal behavior for life.

If this dog-slapper were MY kid, that crap wouldn’t fly. Roughhousing with the dog is fine but whipping, slapping, teasing or otherwise degrading the dog is dangerous. Dogs are domesticated from wolves; even if a friendly dog like a Labrador doesn’t return the violence in kind, it will affect the way he sees his role in the family which can have serious consequences in any direction.

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Treebag August 25, 2010 at 11:47

I’ve got a CRAZY idea!!!! you ready? How about, in order to avoid all the bullshit associated with marriage (fat lazy woman, kidnapping, extortion, “child support”, “alimony”, etc etc) we just …..

DONT GET MARRIED?

Bingo bingo bingo!!

Such a simple solution to such a complex problem, men need to stop falling for women’s traps and lies. Don’t defend or support women in any way whether it be taxation or “marriage”. They are “strong & independent grrrlz” now afterall, they “dont need a man”.

The FACT of the matter is: ALL women are PROSTITUTES!!! Every last one, without any exceptions. It is the MEN that need to get their heads out of their asses and realize this simple fact.

Let’s use that thing inside our skulls for jut a second, it’s called a brain, now you may or may not have one. But if you do, ponder this for a moment:

If that woman you wake up next to every morning truly “loved” you, then where was she when you were working for $12 an hour at your first job? Where was she when you were dead broke during college? WHY is it she “suddenly” is interested in you after you land that job making six figures? Hmmmmm????

The TRUTH about women is that they are incapable of love, they only love what the man HAS and/or PROVIDES! This doesn’t necessarily have to be money. In the case of “thugs” who are fucking bums, it is excitement. In the case of “jocks” during high school it is popularity. In the case of “nerds” it is financial security or “babies and money”. The one thing in common in all these cases is this …. the women is only with the man to GET AT WHAT HE HAS!!! To the married men reading this, your wife is just PRETENDING to love you!! She DOESNT love you! She “loves” what you have, which, in 90% of cases (barring the “thug” scenario), is YOUR $$$$$!!! They are VERY different from us, they are closer to animals in many ways than they are to actual human beings. In any relationship, the woman is a “child” mentally …… with the man being the actual human being in the transaction.

FACT: All women, regardless of geographic location, use the SAME tactics (lies, deceit, sex-bait, emotional manipulation, etc) to capture a man into “marriage” and get him to pay for her fat ass and her bills!!! The women, collectively and worldwide, are ALL in on the “marriage” scam and will “promote” it at every opportunity! Come on guys, we’ve all been at a restaurant and overheard female conversations in the background talking about “he’s such a great CATCH” (emphasis added), what we never realized is they LITERALLY MEANT IT WORD-FOR-WORD!!! Women dangle “pussy” in front of men like a fisherman “baits” his hook and wait for a man (one of the “fish in the sea”) to “bite” and then she “reels” him in and “ties the knot around his neck” (marriage) as she “pulls” him out of the water (which represents freedom).

Women are masters of dissumulation, manipulation, and deception and they have been fooling, messing with, and tricking the MEN for literally THOUSANDS of years by using sex and their “charms”!!! I know many of you married men will disagree with what I just wrote above, but just wait until your wife inevitably takes your ass thru the meat grinder (aka “Family Court”) and we’ll see how much she “loves” you, prove me wrong on this one LOLZ

“Marriage” is basically a “business contract” where the woman, as the “employer”, agrees to rent out her vagina a FEW times a YEAR to her new “employee”, which is “her man”, IN EXCHANGE FOR: the man’s labor, assets, and $$$$$ of course. When the “relationship” goes sour and ends in “divorce”, the woman, being totally incapable of love or sympathy of any kind, simply puts another man “under contract” using her vagina as “payment” for the new man’s labor and substance. The original husband is usually uterrly destroyed emotionally and may even become suicidal, the new husband will soon suffer the same fate. This cannot be rebutted in any way as the FACT is the suicide rate for MEN in divorce is at least 8-10 times GREATER than that of women. This is VERY revealing guys, take some notes! A man will sometimes KILL himself after a divorce, however the WOMAN will simply “move on”, this should tell you ALL you need to know about the “fairer sex” w/ her empty promises of “love”. This is just more proof that women are INCAPABLE of love as I mentioned earlier.

Bottom line: “Marriage” is simply a contract by which a woman trades (bad) sex IN EXCHANGE for the fruits of the MAN’S labor and assets.

All these “articles” relating to marriage would be totally unecessary if men would simply memorize three simple words:

DONT.GET.MARRIED!

Remember guys, they are NOT capable of love!!! They are NOT capable of love!!! I CANNOT re-iterate this point enough times to the guys I know!!! It’s an illusion maintained ONLY by man’s inherent flaw which is: his sex drive. Once you stop thinking w/ ur dick, you very quickly realize they are all just parasites using the facade of “love” to get what THEY want at YOUR expense!! Make no mistake, they are ALL about the $$$$$, and in their 30s once they have too many miles on the pussy odomoter from banging thugs in her teens/20′s ….. babies. Men, to women, are simply tools to get their hands on $$$$ and babies (in their 30s).

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Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech August 25, 2010 at 12:06

HL, while I appreciate the idea that the government acts as a rapist towards men, the analogy breaks down when government becomes an de facto instrument of punishment for game failure. This is very problematic if actual alphas like Welmer’s friend is having trouble being alpha in marriage 2.0. If there’s something fundamentally dealphaizing about marriage 2.0 and it seems that there is comparisons to women in dark alleys make no sense.

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MyLate40's August 25, 2010 at 14:59

Badger Nation
Men, get a lawyer, now. BEFORE you need one, so you can grow to trust him and get regular low-level advice. If you’re considering marriage, you should both have attorneys already, so you can arrange the prenup so it will hold up in court. Get one who is familiar with family law in your area and has a track record of winning for male clients.

Failing that, at least get a lawyer friend (not hard, they’re everywhere), so HE can evaluate the guy you actually retain if and when you need to go to court (and once that happens). So much of law is networking and word of mouth, you need someone plugged into that.

Don’t fall for romantic notions like “well why do I need a lawyer if I’m innocent?” That’s EXACTLY why you need one – you are NOT going to get any better of a shake than the case your lawyer can make.

What if the narcissistic, hot, sexy woman I’m dating now IS a lawyer? I’m just asking for it, aren’t I? Yeah, she talks about getting married. I change the subject. Been there, done that, got my 50% custody.

I agree with those who say it takes a hotter younger woman to turn you on as you age. At least for me that’s the case. I also see the point that somewhere along the way you will tire of whomever you’re with. Its natural.

Man. I used to be such a monogamous, picket-fence ‘good guy.’

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rob August 25, 2010 at 15:01

This is very problematic if actual alphas like Welmer’s friend is having trouble being alpha in marriage 2.0.

I agree, PMAFT.

The essense of being “alpha” is the projection of your value. Basically, you must be giving off the attitude of “It’s my way or the highway, and if you don’t like it, there’s the door because there are dozens of hot babes just waiting to replace you.”

Essentially you cannot be put into a position of where you are afraid of losing her, because if you are, not only is she already lost – but so are you!

It is impossible to do this in marriage 2.0.

Although I do agree that game has its value in marriage, one must also realize that it is a greatly diminished value, because you have removed your trump card: your absense. (Or at least, you have handed yourself an enormous penalty for playing your trump card).

If the essense of game is, “it’s my way or the highway because I can replace you with a gajillion other girls who will treat me the way I want…” then marriage has automatically killed half your “game.”

Although, it’s a given that it is better to utilize aspects of game within marriage rather than act like a sackless, mewling, kitchen-bitch turd.

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David Collard August 25, 2010 at 16:29

Badger Nation

Some good points. Losing weight is hard. A woman has to really want to do it to please a man. Game has helped me get my wife interested in losing weight. She had a lot to lose, but she has made good progress.

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Anonymous August 25, 2010 at 16:34

“Although I do agree that game has its value in marriage, one must also realize that it is a greatly diminished value, because you have removed your trump card: your absense.”

There are ways to at least partially re-gain this. Subtle (verrrrry subtle)clues that other women find you interesting/attractive can improve her attitude toward you and stimulate her mate-guarding response. What you want is not a rational/frontal cortex response, it’s an emotional/limbic response. ~ “You don’t want me? Fine. Plenty of other women who do!” I’ve heard comments from several single women along the lines of- “My married friends complain endlessly about their husbands, but none of them offer to trade places with me.”

Another way is to spit into the eye of Hell and embrace the most likely outcome of a divorce. I mean really DILLIGAF own it. Let her know that, even in the worst-case outcome for you, you have no doubt that you’ll be fine – and she’ll be a middle-aged single mother. The next time she needs you for anything- look at her with a wry grin, wink, and consider saying “What would you do without me?” If she threatens divorce and you convincingly call her bluff (especially in a cool, confident frame), she’ll be shooting blanks. This is more difficult/risky if small children are involved. With teenagers, it’s not so scary.

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Laura August 25, 2010 at 18:26

Thag,
I agree. Most couples seem to be about the same in looks, but there are some where the wife has stayed in shape and the husband has let himself go. I think the wife would be tempted to cheat.

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Red0660 August 25, 2010 at 22:53

EMERGENCY ACTION MESSAGE:

Not sure how to contact you all in another way so here is some info we need to get out onto the wire. Welmer, you are an great critical thinker, you all are and we should do a post on this here.

We have a gender war going on on the Federal Chamber of Commerce website I’d like to invite you to. The feminist community has responded on the site and I think we need to get some info on there as well. I think you will enjoy my comments on both links which were posted under “Roger” The Chamber of Commerce members and policy makers themselves write the blog post so we can really influence them by posting there. So lets make some conceive and intelligent points over there. I’ve already torn them to pieces but if you guys have something, let it at em.

The Chamber released this on their site post:

http://www.chamberpost.com/2010/08/equality-suffrage-and-a-fetish-for-money.html

Then when women went ape shit, they posted a non sequitur argument retraction (link below) that I throughly tore to pieces in the comments section.

http://www.chamberpost.com/2010/08/a-wrong-and-wrongheaded-look-at-the-wage-gap.html

We need to get this out on the wire and EVERYWHERE ELSE. The MRA community needs to respond. I trust the collective response from men in the past, specifically the veterans here as whenever we have gotten something out on the wire we fire back with good stuff that does not seem to derail our political objective.

I think perhaps that the MRA community is composed of some real thinkers and intelligent folks. So lets get the word out and onto the MRA radar.

Your Brother In Arms, (Red0660)

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gunslingergregi August 26, 2010 at 02:34

Yea my stuff posted.

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MsExceptionToTheRule August 26, 2010 at 03:59

I was watching an episode of some show on hbo in which a wife had discovered that her husband had been cheating on her with women he paid to sleep with which she screeched about to her next door neighbor. Later on the husband said “Of course I love my wife. But I like myself with them (the other women).”

Wives have to be more than just convenient and willing bed partners, bearers of children and keepers of the home.

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Gunslingergregi August 26, 2010 at 11:25

Guys if you post on that site it goes to the top not being deleted right away lol
It did have me going for a minute though lol

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Gunslingergregi August 26, 2010 at 11:37

””””MsExceptionToTheRule
Wives have to be more than just convenient and willing bed partners, bearers of children and keepers of the home.”””””””””’

Well yea I expect them to be able to do it all. I am not a us business lol
I want them to be living up to potential not just turning them into vegetables.

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Anonymous Reader August 26, 2010 at 15:03

MsException, are you aware that the show you saw was fiction?

Wives have to be more than just convenient and willing bed partners, bearers of children and keepers of the home.

Really? Even if that’s exactly what a given woman wants, to be a wife, mother and keeper of the home? How do you propose to force her to be something else, eh?

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Gunslingergregi August 26, 2010 at 15:33

How bout the mans lover Anonymous Reader to start with.

How bout a facilitator of her mans vision of life that she has internalized.

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Gunslingergregi August 26, 2010 at 15:46

How bout a woman like this:

Who can find a virtuous woman?
For her price is far above rubies.

11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her,
so that he shall have no need of spoil.

12 She will do him good and not evil
all the days of her life.

13 She seeketh wool, and flax,
and worketh willingly with her hands.

14 She is like the merchants’ ships;
she bringeth her food from afar.

15 She riseth also while it is yet night,
and giveth meat to her household,
and a portion to her maidens.

16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it:
with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.

17 She girdeth her loins with strength,
and strengtheneth her arms.

18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good:
her candle goeth not out by night.

19 She layeth her hands to the spindle,
and her hands hold the distaff.

20 She stretcheth our her hand to the poor;
yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.

21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household:
for all her household are clothed with scarlet.

22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry;
her clothing is silk and purple.

23 Her husband is known in the gates,
when he sitteth among the elders of the land.

24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it;
and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

25 Strength and honor are her clothing;
and she shall rejoice in time to come.

26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom;
and in her tongue is the law of kindness.

27 She looketh well to the ways of her household,
and eateth not the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praiseth her.

29 Many daughters have done virtuously,
but thou excellest them all.

30 Favor is deceitful, and beauty is vain:
but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.

31 Give her of the fruit of her hands;
and let her own works praise her in the gates.

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Treebag August 26, 2010 at 15:46

ALL these articles and discussions relating to “Marriage” are a pointless waste of time.

It’s not that hard to figure out guys:

DON’T
GET
MARRIED

Three.simple.words: DON’T GET MARRIED! (Or support women in any way for that matter, be it financially or otherwise)

The problem is not women, women have ALWAYS been the same!!! They do NOT change! ALL women are prostitutes, it is the MEN who need to get their heads out of the sand and realize this simple and UN-REBUTTABLE fact.

Let’s add that line of truth to this: ALL woman are incapable of love! They simply can’t do it! Women just “pretend” or “act” like they “love” their man, when the REALITY is they only “love” what the man has or provides, which is usually in the form of $$$$$ (again proving they are all prostitutes).

Guys, as soon as MEN stop supporting government/women by AVOIDING Marriage, things will change VERY QUICKLY! The “system” will change VERY FAST when the MEN walk away.

Suddenly wives and women in general will find their husbands “very attractive” as soon as the goodies and free money from the Government “dries up”.

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Anonymous August 26, 2010 at 15:53

Admonitions to a King
1 The words of king Lem’u-el, the prophecy that his mother taught him.

2 What, my son?
And what, the son of my womb?
And what, the son of my vows?

3 Give not thy strength unto women,
nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.

4 It is not for kings, O Lem’u-el,
it is not for kings to drink wine;
nor for princes strong drink:

5 lest they drink, and forget the law,
and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish,
and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty,
and remember his misery no more.

8 Open thy mouth for the dumb
in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.

9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously,
and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

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MacArthur Of The MRM August 26, 2010 at 20:51

Treebag, if you would have said such “harsh” things about women 3 years ago I would have crowned you. But now I applaud you for your lack of chivalry, clear mindedness and honesty. Some men use that tired line that goes, there are still some good ones ones out there. They’re only good if you keep them satisfied. But as soon as there’s the first sign of trouble in paradise cupcake flies the coop and takes everything of value with her. Marriage and relationships are one big perpetual audition for men.

To everyone who objects to what we say about women, where are all the women to defend themselves? Why the silence? I’ve decided that my next two t-shirts will read:

WOMEN SHOULD SUBMIT!

and

DO NOT MARRY!

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mgtow August 27, 2010 at 07:26

LOL!

Game in marriage!

Guys, if you have game, YOU WOULDN’T BE MARRIED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Stop trying to co-opt PUA tactics to prolong your doomed-by-default state of marriage, then turn around and call it ‘game’.

I do understand that married men trying their darndest to make the best of a shitty situation is highly commendable, and this is definitely better than being some whipped, tail-between-the-legs mangina doormat.

But if you are a man and you are married, YOU HAVE NO GAME. You have already sealed your fate by signing the marriage contract and offering your balls to your dear wifey(and the state) on a silver platter.

You are not a PUA, and you are not ghosting, or anything in between the two. So, what are you?

Just another married chump, with no game.

If you’re a married man, the best thing you can do is to get some good lawyers, and dump your wife. After the dust has settled, and ONLY THEN, do you have the legitimacy to claim that you dabble in game.

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MacArthur Of The MRM August 27, 2010 at 10:00

MGTOW I beg to differ. Sure most men are whipped. But it is quite possible to be married and have game. Such a situation is quite rare but it still exists. Take me (please), I was an abused mangina doormat for decades. Now I am a staunch alpha. I earn respect from all the women I deal with. If I decided to get married so help me I’ll make sure she’s a loving and submissive wife. No pedestals, no deference or treating her as an equal. I would lead she would follow. I would love her and demand the same.

But as soon as she starts up the “empowered woman” crap I would kick her to the curb in a New York minute. If we had kids I would tell them that they’re better off without her. She would get custody and everything else but I was born with nothing and have nothing to lose. If she decides to play the psycho bitch I would prove to her that I’m even more psycho and have much more staying power. I’d hound her for the rest of her life. She would have to become a model citizen because one slip up and her ass is grass.

I have a sister in law who was on crack and completely out of control. She lived with our immediate family and was eating us out of house and home, abandoning her newborn with us for a week at a time while she chased her drugs while collecting welfare and really only showed up on everybody else’s paydays. She was a total parasite.

Well one day I woke up so hungry my head was spinning and I could barely stand. And lo and behold the cupboard was bare. My witch sister in law had used her mouth as a weapon against my family. I put my famous foot down and turned her in for welfare fraud. Unbeknownst to me a distant relative of hers beat me to the punch by several days. She was running the same scam on her too. My sister in law did 6 months in the county jail and 9 months of community service.

My point is that if someone seeks to destroy me I have no guilt about destroying them in every possible legal way. Very few men are like me but there are some.

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 10:04

And I am supposed to take your word on that?

I am a Man.

I do what I want.

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 10:07

””””””’MacArthur Of The MRM
Well one day I woke up so hungry my head was spinning and I could barely stand. And lo and behold the cupboard was bare. My witch sister in law had used her mouth as a weapon against my family. I put my famous foot down and turned her in for welfare fraud. Unbeknownst to me a distant relative of hers beat me to the punch by several days. She was running the same scam on her too. My sister in law did 6 months in the county jail and 9 months of community service.

My point is that if someone seeks to destroy me I have no guilt about destroying them in every possible legal way. Very few men are like me but there are some.
””””””””’

Sounds like your a christian why I hate them. No real balls just little bitches.

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MacArthur Of The MRM August 27, 2010 at 11:31

Gunslingergregi, grow up and take responsibility for yourself. I DON’T MAKE YOU DO ANYTHING! You hate Christians because that’s what you choose to do. You’re a hater and it’s all your fault. Would you like me better if I agreed with your mangina, women first attitude? Well that ain’t gonna happen soon.
And your childish name calling is a joke. You’re obviously not a real man. I suggest you pull your head out of your rump and give your excuse for a brain some fresh air.

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 11:43

Basically like christianity turns you into a robot who never has to think. No longer human just a worker bee waiting to die.

It causes you to see having children as a sacrifice and to seek out suffering for yourself so you can have a nice hell on earth for yourself and offer that pain up to god rather than being a cognicent individual and creating heaven on earth for yourself and just enjoying the fuck out of life.

I’m having a seriously hard time throwing off the yoke of slavery and just going ahead and setting myself freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Instead of just always placing myself in positions to offer it up.

I need to take that shit that is my fucking birthright and create the shit that makes me happy now. Fuck after I die.

I am trying to grow up and that includes not being a christian chump. Hopefully I do.

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 11:48

Or maybe it is just actually believing in god.

Do you think jesus would have turned her in for eating your food or would he have helped her?

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 11:51

Heck I have a couple homeless people that sleep on my porch during the day. I don’t mind they don’t bother me. I am pretty sure though that you would tell them to get the fuck out and never come back though.
I also help feed them. See I am a kind man because I can be a kind man.
You are not in that position.

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 12:01

Actually no you wouldn’t have the balls to tell them to get the fuck out. You would call the police to do it.

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MacArthur Of The MRM August 27, 2010 at 12:13

Gunslingergregi, your arrogance is overwhelming. You’re in no position to tell me what I do and why I do it. You’re a mush head and I refuse to justify your lunacy by responding to it. You’re not going to get a flame war out of me so talk to the hand pal.

p.s. YOU NEED JESUS IN YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU’RE LOST!

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 12:20

That is my point though that people who talk about loving jesus don’t act like it. They do evil deeds done dirt cheap.

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Gunslingergregi August 27, 2010 at 12:21

Just giving you a means of some real introspection into yourself.
No flame war just breaking you down a little.

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Anonymous Reader August 27, 2010 at 15:15

mgtow, game is simply applied evolutionary psychology. It works in short term situations, it works in long term relationships, it works in marriage. It is working for me on my wife every day. Displays of higher value can work wonders if they are applied correctly, because what we are talking about is ‘wiring” at the basic level in women. Any married man who doesn’t have Game, either natural or studied, is sure to have some degree of trouble in his house.

But let’s suppose that a man has a really unpleasant wife, who has ballooned up in weight and become a real pain in the ass. Let’s suppose that he starts working out, starts dressing sharper, starts grooming himself more carefully, maybe even peacocking to some degree, and generally improves his sex ranking. If she responds by losing weight and becoming more compliant, he’s winning. If she just won’t change, and in fact dares him to leave — he’s already positioned himself to find a better woman. So he can win that way as well.

I don’t see any downside to a man improving his ranking, and that’s one of the keys of Game, to enable a man who is mainly beta and, oh, a 6 to act more like a 7 or even an 8. So the answer to Welmer’s question is in:

Game in marriage is almost always worth it one way or another.

Plus:
As the mancession grinds on, and it is looking more and more like a depression, a lot of formerly employed men are going to be out of work, their families subsisting on whatever money the woman of the house brings in. She’s likely going to be in some government job or other, so there will be a paycheck for a while. Men who are earning less than their wives are going to need a lot of mental tools to keep control of their family. Game is one of those tools. In fact, evolutionary biology is wrapped up in how both men and women “are”.

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MacArthur Of The MRM August 27, 2010 at 18:04

Anonymous Reader your post above is brilliant. You gave one of the best explanation of game around. The mancession is also working to bring feminism down. I try to attach a face to the unemployment statistics. I hope the unemployed find work. But the feminists see it as mission accomplished.

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mgtow August 27, 2010 at 19:07

@Anonymous Reader August 27, 2010 at 15:15

Exactly. You, a married man, is merely trying to hold on to the pants in your marriage by adopting some ‘game’ tactics on your wife. See my previous post regarding ‘making the best of a shitty situation’. I have nothing against this at all.

However, suppose you have indeed gamed and tamed your wife. What then? You’re still legally stuck to a grand total of ONE marital vagina. This, is the antithesis of game, which advocates diversification of your pussy assets. Tiger Woods tried to diversify – see what happened.

Applying ‘game’ on your wife is no different from applying game on your pesky female co-workers or irritating female family members/relatives. It may work, but works only on a mental level. However, this is totally different from real game.

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Paul Elam August 28, 2010 at 05:41

You’re still legally stuck to a grand total of ONE marital vagina. This, is the antithesis of game, which advocates diversification of your pussy assets.

While Game provides us a good fundamental understanding of women, it is a major FAIL where it comes to the same understanding of men. As is consistently demonstrated by comments from men on the subject, diversification of pussy assets is not the focus of their drive. In fact, Game can’t “advocate” for anything because it is nothing more than a personal behavioral translation of extant human psychobiology.

Despite the male programming to scatter seeds, their programming to protect and provide for their perceived “mate” frequently overrides their need for diversity- at least to the extent of keeping a marriage together.

Game, if it has a purpose at all, is to serve as a doorway to men’s understanding of their own behavior, especially the ones the put them at risk.

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Anonymous Reader August 28, 2010 at 17:07

However, suppose you have indeed gamed and tamed your wife. What then?

Then I don’t worry about my children being yanked away from me and my assets plundered, for a start.

You’re still legally stuck to a grand total of ONE marital vagina.

An obedient one that seeks to please me. And I get to raise our children in peace, in evolutionary terms a winning situation.

This, is the antithesis of game, which advocates diversification of your pussy assets.

That form of game results in no children, which in evolutionary terms is losing. If you really believe in evolutionary psychology, not making babies is losing, in the long run.

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mgtow August 29, 2010 at 04:56

However, suppose you have indeed gamed and tamed your wife. What then?

Then I don’t worry about my children being yanked away from me and my assets plundered, for a start.

Nope. You have to keep worrying. You are a man, and you are married. The rules are rigged against you. Your children belong to her and to the state, by default. Meanwhile, go do some paternity testing on your kids, just to be sure…

You’re still legally stuck to a grand total of ONE marital vagina.

An obedient one that seeks to please me. And I get to raise our children in peace, in evolutionary terms a winning situation.

If you want to adhere strictly to the ‘be fruitful and multiply’ evolutionary victory, you should spread your seed amongst many women, not just one. Your wife’s looks, fertility and sexual health rapidly depreciates with age. As with investing in stocks, always diversify. Don’t put all your eggs(sperm?) in one basket.

This, is the antithesis of game, which advocates diversification of your pussy assets.

That form of game results in no children, which in evolutionary terms is losing. If you really believe in evolutionary psychology, not making babies is losing, in the long run.

For men going their own way, what happens to civilization in the future is not a concern. The ‘macro’ grand scheme of things in demographics is not my problem. If you’re a parent, naturally you’re concerned about what kind of society your kid(s) will grow up in. We, on the other hand couldn’t care less.

What you call nihilism or a genetic dead end, we call it eradication of unnecessary BS from the remaining years of our fleeting lives – meaning sensibility and practicality.

Don’t get married.

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Anonymous Reader August 29, 2010 at 09:01

mgtow
Nope. You have to keep worrying. You are a man, and you are married. The rules are rigged against you. Your children belong to her and to the state, by default. Meanwhile, go do some paternity testing on your kids, just to be sure…

No, I don’t have to keep worrying, any more than I have to worry about some thug breaking into the house at 2 AM. I’m aware of both dangers, just like I’m aware of the danger of fire and happen to have more than one fire extinguisher. Part of being an adult is managing risk, the first step is admitting the risk exists. Then you have to have a plan. Game is part of my plan for minimizing risk, it has the side benefit of improving my quality of life as well.

If you want to adhere strictly to the ‘be fruitful and multiply’ evolutionary victory, you should spread your seed amongst many women, not just one.

From a purely evolutionary point of view, that is true. But from the same point of view, pumping and dumping a series of women who will abort any pregnancy is a total evolutionary loss. Total fail! Civilization above the hunter-gatherer or maybe hydraulic-empire level requires a higher parental investment. Since I don’t expect to collect a dime from Social Security, children are another alternative investment in that area as well, along with a paid off house (not yet paid off, but soon).

Your wife’s looks, fertility and sexual health rapidly depreciates with age. As with investing in stocks, always diversify. Don’t put all your eggs(sperm?) in one basket.

Diversification in these terms comes with other prices that get to be too high. I don’t care for the quality of life in the typical urban ghetto, so I choose not to live there.

For men going their own way, what happens to civilization in the future is not a concern.

The future belongs to those who show up for it. I don’t care to be an old man in a neighborhood full of matriarchal Mexicans, nor do I plan to live under Sharia. But that’s the direction you would point civilization.

The ‘macro’ grand scheme of things in demographics is not my problem. If you’re a parent, naturally you’re concerned about what kind of society your kid(s) will grow up in. We, on the other hand couldn’t care less.

Cool by me. That means that the socons, who tend to have more than 2 children, will gain in influence as the years go by since feminists tend to abort most of their children, maybe saving one for sentimental reasons. That makes feminism an evolutionary dead in end in time, and means also that some form of social conservatism will be around for a lot longer.

What you call nihilism or a genetic dead end, we call it eradication of unnecessary BS from the remaining years of our fleeting lives – meaning sensibility and practicality.

Fine by me. But don’t kid yourself, if you choose to have no influence on children, you are ceding control of your future life to others. Game is one way to keep my family functioning the way I like it, to enable my children to show up for the future in some small way. Masturbating to porn surely can be pleasant, but it’s a bit lonely after a while.

Don’t get married.

For you that surely is the best thing. For those who get married, Game is essential, and worth it one way or another.

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Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life August 30, 2010 at 00:05

Game in marriage is best thought of as a positive influence on outcomes. It’s by no means an automatic win button though.

Likewise laws in many States are a negative influence on martial outcomes. But it’s by no means an automatic loss to be married though.

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Anakin Niceguy September 25, 2010 at 18:25

The future belongs to those who show up for it. I don’t care to be an old man in a neighborhood full of matriarchal Mexicans, nor do I plan to live under Sharia. But that’s the direction you would point civilization.

I think most people chose to have children for the personal satisfaction and fulfillment of sharing a life and love with others. While children can be a blessing, in many ways they represent a subjective value in a post-agrarian society. You are not going to win the demographics war with your token three children. For every one of you, there is another man of your demographic who defaults. The birthrates in the West are falling below replacement level. The Mexican matriarchy may arrive with or without your children.

That means that the socons, who tend to have more than 2 children, will gain in influence as the years go by since feminists tend to abort most of their children, maybe saving one for sentimental reasons. That makes feminism an evolutionary dead in end in time, and means also that some form of social conservatism will be around for a lot longer.

I think this is a simplistic analysis. Social conservatism won’t be perpetuated by sticking kids in front of the gaming console while both parents slave away at meaningless jobs. Values transmission across several generations is extremely problematic in a highly technological society that is materialistic, consumeristic, and individualistic. In other words, what do you do when even the white people in red states start acting like the “mexican matriarchal ghetto” of which you speak? I believe the blogger Thursday said that most kids do not want to learn, they want to have sex and play video games.

Fine by me. But don’t kid yourself, if you choose to have no influence on children, you are ceding control of your future life to others.

I think you are posing a false dichotomy and resorting to a bit of equivocation in reasoning. Problematic are the senses in which you use the words/phrases “no influence on children,” “control,” and “future.” It is hard to see what argument you are making in the absence of fleshing out these terms. For instance, are you reducing the concept of “influence on children” down to parenting itself? Does not that discount the strong influence of popular culture, peers, education, etc.? What do you mean by control of your future? How does having children mean more control of your future? Given the sober responsibility of parenting and the accountability it demands, I daresay some husbands and fathers feel they are in less control of their future.

Game is one way to keep my family functioning the way I like it, to enable my children to show up for the future in some small way.

Some small way? Again, the “future” is ill-defined here. What if the future is the “mexican matriarchal ghetto.” What is gained by your children showing up for that?

Unlike some in the MGTOW community, I don’t fault you for getting married. As Christian, I consider marriage to be a gift from God (marriage, I say, as opposed to Marriage 2.0). So I congratulate you and encourage you in life’s decision. I would hope for one thing, though: That you do things to make yourself attractive to wife out of appreciation for the bedrock love she has for you. If it is out of fear of losing her, or if it is to get her to love you, then I have concerns about the longterm integrity of such a relationship. Many women resent being only valued for their looks (and if I were a woman, I’d feel the same, since looks don’t last forever). I’d say men likewise can be understandably resentful when they are only valued for their DHVing and alpha dance. Another way of looking at it? If marriages can only held together by DHV in return for sex, then let no one say another word about non-remarkable men going abroad for foreign wives. At least they know how to get a bargain (divorce states for foreign vs. domestic anyone?).

American Women: Your are loser! Your Filipino bride only wants you for your green card?

Man: And you want me for my wonderful personality, loyalty, and sense of humor alone?

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Luxury Silk June 25, 2011 at 14:45

Think blue, be blue and be smurf.

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