All American women want to wear a tiara, but those old standards of beauty don’t work for very many of them any longer. In fact, far fewer American women could be objectively called beautiful than a mere 30 years ago, when the fat epidemic had just begun.
Enter the “Miss Plus America” pageant, a competition specifically for “plus” women. Now, American women can eat their way to the championship, scarfing down potato chips and chugging soda pop to put them in the running for beauty queen.
I’m kind of curious as to why “plus” is the term employed. Is it supposed to suggest that it’s somehow desirable, as in “that’s a plus?” Maybe it simply sounds better than “Miss Fat America,” but euphemisms have a way of becoming terms of ridicule, so it will probably backfire soon enough.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with curvy women, naturally big women, etc. But it’s obvious that these women have a great deal of body fat, and are technically obese. Obesity isn’t beautiful, and it isn’t healthy. Our aim should be to eradicate – not celebrate – obesity. However, it seems that these women’s desire to be celebrated matters more than a national crisis that is seeing children develop type II diabetes, and adults die prematurely from weight-related diseases.
{ 262 comments… read them below or add one }
Once again, my county is an embarrassment around the globe. If we are a “world power”, then the people need to look good; instead, angry muslim extremists just see us as fat and decadent and this just fuels their rage.
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Just another example of the ‘reality tv’ cultural phenom of the recent decade. Nothing of substance. Only problem is that it reinforces the socialist/feminist lie that all is equal, nothing is superior, which by comparing actual beauties to the cows in the photo put this theory to shame.
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Lovekraft, you need to get your slogan right:
“Each special snowflake is equally beautiful, each in its own way”.
Sure, some snowflakes are as big as two other ones, but they’re all equally beautiful. Failure to recognize this is discriminatory, and that’s thoughtcrime. Heck, if they only crown one obese woman as the “winner”, that’s discriminating against all the other ones.
Crowns for everyone! Every woman who enters is a “winner”! Who could possibly object?
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Well, after visual mugging I received above, I thought I could use a bit of video eye wash:
TRIGGER ALERT- this clip contains images that might damage the self-esteem of obese “beauty” queens, as well as a bit of up-skirt footage, and may cause you to see if there are any car shows planned in your locale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR5G4zgveF4&playnext=1&videos=v8i3kXxlu_M&feature=grec_index
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Not even our government can legislate men to think these ocean liners are attractive. Sorry, tubs of shit – time to hit the fucking treadmill.
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Why not change the name for the “Princess of Whales” contest?
It would be appropriate.
No?
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This is exactly the type of overreach we need to be encouraging.
Since real beauty pageants with real hotties are not stopping, let feminists use shaming language against those who refuse to praise this absurdity.
When the WINNER of such a contest gets and ego boost, but still can’t get a man, what will that do to her long-term happiness? Heh.
Also, is it such that no one who is no obese can join? If not, then the women who rank low in the true beauty pageants could come over here and thrash the competition, humiliating the fatties further.
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Welmer, you got it wrong.
The contest was actually to see which large woman could eat the most regular-sized beauty contestants.
The pink whale up there slathered her favorite chicken wing sauce on five little hotties from Thailand. But it wasn’t enough to triumph over the Latina, who ate the Miami Heat’s dance team.
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I hope the organisers don’t forget to reinforce the stage floor, thats an accident waiting to happen
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I with you NMH, this is embarrassing.
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How about “MegAmerica”, then?
How about “Miss Gig”? (apound)
Miss Iceberg?
??
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LOL!
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As if we needed another reason to either pass on marriage, or at the very least, import from abroad.
As if this pageant isn’t enough, there’s a club in LA that I heard about on a Tom Leykis program probably 2 years ago:
http://www.clubbounce.net/
Leykis tried to make a deal with his call screener, Dino: If he bagged one of the fatties that go to this club, Tom would pay him $20 per pound. I think Dino passed, even though it could have gotten him $8k for a 400 pound whale.
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I think it’s about time to begin a new strategy in the battle against Feminism and Marxism as seen from a European standpoint.
What I suggest is to mock, ridicule and generalize all americans as being utterly stupid. You deliver all the needed material yourself and it is important for us to stop your insane ways from spreading beyond your borders or at least to prevent you from being taken serious in our countries.
You can go ahead and do the same to us as long as you stay where you are and not interfere in any way over here. We will soon have to dump both the UN Human Rights Charter and the Geneva-Convention in pure self defense.
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Raise calorie intake and lower the bar. Problem solved.
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Female amputees, sans various appendages, would be more attractive.
This is all nothing but “empowerment chic” run amok.
The delusional “Love me for who I am, not what I am.”
They’re the male equivalent of an unemployed man that lives in his mother’s basement and doesn’t own a car. Maybe they should have a club too; where women who like “loser” guys can go to meet them.
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WTF
This can’t be a real thing. Please tell me this is in jest and they’re really just making fun of the fatties.
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Even when I was obese women would come on to me, appearances arent necessarily that important – up to a point.
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perhaps it is because I have had weight problems myself at various times, I dont necessarily think all of the women are hideous if you click on the link to the pageant.
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No, they aren’t all hideous. In fact, if they lost a good deal of weight some of them could be quite attractive by ordinary standards.
However, what obesity does to one’s health can be pretty hideous, and tragic. A guy I know is morbidly obese, and I hardly think of him as a disgusting person (actually, he’s a very intelligent and good man), but it’s a damn shame and I worry about him.
Celebrating obesity is akin to celebrating smoking crack, in my opinion. Our efforts should be to eliminate obesity. If there’s anything that shows feminism up for the moral farce that it is, it is this “fat acceptance” movement. Overweight is one thing (I’m about ten pounds over my ideal at the moment), but these women are FAT.
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http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010307250036
Good evening! This my first attempt at posting; so, bear with me. The link is to an article that appeared in my local newspaper a little over a week ago; and, I think it fits the discussion very well. The two things that are most interesting to me are #1 that the author blames her husband for her lack of control at the buffet; and, #2 that she will banish “hubby” to the sofa for even calling attention to her weight.
To my interpretation, she is showing little to no respect for herself or her husband, even stating the her husband is a”super-fit athlete”. I doubt that he is able to maintain he athleticism without some effort, the concept of which seems to elude his wife.
I am a health professional helping to care for patients in intensive care units and I see the effects of obesity…Welmer’s statement could not be more true.
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No, but seriously, if any one of these beauties was to sink in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico, there would be yet another oil gusher…
I can`t stop laughing when I look at the picture. Burlesque at its best. There`s no business like show business.
In my youth, every circus had its obese woman and people used to pay to behold her.
Looks like Hollywood is making a smashing success of what was once a trivial show.
Who sponsors this show?
Mac who?
LOL!!!
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You’re so right, Welmer! I just hope that the newly-crowned Miss Plus America gets a lifetime share of artery-clogging pork-chops with brown gravy!
Nonetheless, I wouldn’t want to honor such a pompously unhealthy whale…
EmanTheDesperateHouseboy
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And here I thought they outlawed whaling.
Sea Shepherd Conservation Society to the rescue!
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Ooooh, good one Wapiti! Send one of their top men over right away!!!!
*snickers*
EmanTheDesperateHouseboy
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One of my questions:
If the floor on which they have been hoisted collapses, what will happen?
a-an earthquake
b-a volcanic eruption
c-a tsunami
d-the 6th extinction
Questions..
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They all look like princesses to me
Ogre princesses…. good for Shrek LOL
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And it’s her husband’s fault….even though he managed not to gain weight on the trip. AND he’s ‘cut off’ if he mentions her weight!? How do you get into your 40s with the mentality of a three-year-old?
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That whale is in pure denial. What is it with women that get this fat? Have they simply never had males in their lives with any semblance of authority? Her husband is at fault here, he’s at fault for not getting the hell out of that relationship.
The entire thought process is just alien to me – its a victim mentality that refuses to admit one has any agency to effect changes to one’s life. And any of these whales that claim its hormonal or genetic or whatever other crap their rationalization hamster comes up with is simply refusing to accept reality.
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“There she is, Ms Lardbutt America!” doesn’t have quite the same patriotic ring to it!
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IF American MEN were to collectively STOP fucking FAT American women, in 6-8 weeks there would be no more FATTIES !!!
The problem is – So many American MEN are such de-facto PUSSY-BEGGARS…that this this is not ever gonna happen.
Gahhh!
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Survivorman, I could not agree more: Stop nailing fat chicks! That is indeed part of the problem.
I am curious if anyone else has noticed something: This whole ‘fat acceptance’ bullshit…this entire social engineering experiment is pushed in our faces (scary mental picture there…sorry…) by women…except for loser, and fetish-crazed men,
I don’t see fat guys getting on this bandwagon. At least not yet. Anyone else notice this?
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For those not familiar. BBW stands for
Bring Burgers With
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I find it funny. While I don’t personally find fat women attractive, I recognize that there were times in which larger women were considered to be ideal.
Ages ago fat women were considered “beautiful”. So much so all the cavemen sculpted little Venus of Willendorfs, and they worshiped the feminine.
Over time, the idea of beauty changed quite a bit. Each culture coming up with it’s own idea on what makes a woman beautiful.
Now the only places where fat is considered “beautiful” are in Matriarchal Africa, where it’s encouraged to fatten up a woman as much as possible to make her beautiful.
It makes me wonder if the whole fat is beautiful thing emerges in a culture where:
1) Food/Resources are scarce as fuck
2) Women are worshiped and placed on a pedestal
3) Due to food being in short supply, women seek to gain “status” by being fatter than all the other women. The more food that a man is able to feed his woman, the better man she’s caught.
It also makes me wonder just how much of what men think is “beautiful” is just them being exposed to the constant status games that women play in this culture. I’m completely aware of the science behind what makes a woman attractive on a primal level such as symmetry and certain curves, but looking at women today and what is considered “beauty”, one only needs to look at the orange oompa-loompa women of Jersey Shore to question how THAT appeals on a primal level to anyone.
Ultimately, if a woman is shitty person (as about 99.99% or so are), it doesn’t matter if she’s fat and “ugly”, or skinny and “hot”, she’ll STILL fuck you over, accuse you of rape, take away your children, and force you into a life of slavery.
And that’s of course ignoring the fact that eventually, all women are going to be fat, ugly, and old at some point.
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Eh, I think part of the embracing the “BBW” crowd is a backlash against the anti-fat folks. Fatties (and I fit that category) are one of the few groups that it is still PC to make fun of, along with men.
Fat guys aren’t getting on the bandwagon Roland because the “movement” is mostly pro fat women, not men. The wusses/idiots will try to jump on this bandwagon I’m sure, others will know its their own problem to deal with namely because most of the fat women won’t want much to do with them.
Of course, I’m sure with the government stepping more into healthcare we’ll all be better off. The first lady is on the case! Lets ignore all the government insanity for the last 30 years on nutrition that hasn’t helped keep people fit much at all.
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Let’s not forget the talent portion of the pageant:
Heavy Lifting
Heavy Breathing
Pulling a mail truck behind you
Power bitching about the lack of men in their lives
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Food is a drug, and the women in the photo are the addicts.
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Hmmmm…
It could be entertaining; especially the pie eating competition(in a two piece swimsuit, of course).
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Anti-chafing gel that had a niche market of runners and super-heavyweight power lifters is now going mainstream due to thunder thigh friction. This ad is now making the rounds of women’s daytime TV shows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9LH0nYoqrs
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Where is Ahab when you need him?
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Is every comment gonna get stuck in moderation. Has “the” become an offensive word?
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only in america do men work harder on looking good than women
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The second one on the right is named Zeppelin.
She doesn’t float in the air, but in water she does.
The other three are called the Continental Drift Sisters.
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Obesity is a symptom, not the disease. Nobody chooses to be fat except a few fetishists on the fringe, and “go them” if they get together the funds to make a pageant.
I suppose fat women are an easier target than the food and pharmeceutical industries.
Carry on shooting the wrong target. It’s what weak people do instead of something constructive.
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LOL!!!!! Most people are overweight because of a poor diet and lack of exercise. If you simply do this and stick to it you will no longer be obese. Yes, obese women and men need to be ridiculed–not in person, but certainly through the cultural zeitgeist.
Drop the doughnut, Nicole.
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“Nobody chooses to be fat…”
Snort, chuckle, guffaw…
Like someone is forcing these women to eat way too much.
They are strong and independent until faced with the terrible power of cupcakes.
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“I suppose fat women are an easier target than the food and pharmeceutical industries.
Carry on shooting the wrong target. It’s what weak people do instead of something constructive.”
Are you the same person who sued McDonalds because the food made you fat?
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Zammo says, “Like someone is forcing these women to eat way too much.”
Not forcing per se, but sabotaging their bodies’ natural ability to signal when they’ve eaten enough calories, yes.
If it wasn’t so then paleo and “100 year” dieters wouldn’t lose weight.
…but don’t let me interrupt the ignorance. 3 years and 30 kg. into awareness, I’m starting to see the humor in all this. Both sides blaming the wrong things. One side dying early of heart attacks, and the other side dying early of weird cancers and organ failure.
Meanwhile, the technically overweight but not quite obese are living longer on average, likely because a significant proportion of them are people who eat properly and exercise, but just aren’t starving.
When you know what’s going on, you view fat bashing as something on the level of picking on disabled people. I can see the humor in it, but those of you who are unaware are going to die earlier for the same reason the fat people will. You just aren’t, or aren’t yet fat. I don’t see the difference between fat and slim unhealthy canola swilling, soy munching volunteer victims.
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@Nicole
So these people are unable to see all the shit they’re shovelling into their mouths? Do they wear blindfolds when they’re eating? A natural signal that they could maybe rely on is that whilst the plate should have all all the elements of the food pyramid like fruit and vegetables and fibre and so on, it shouldn’t actually be a damn pyramid of heaped up food.
They could measure out what they eat, cook food themselves rather than go to McDonalds or Wendys or whatever, they could make sure they don’t supersize stuff, they could stop drinking soda, they could use smaller plates, the list goes on and on.
Its a matter of discipline and exercise, and anyone that claims that its beyond their control is simply too lazy to make the necessary changes.
Attitudes like yours are intended to reinforce the victim mythology and make whales feel better as they continue feeding 247.
One final thing – whilst many men are obese, I have never heard a man say it was outside of his control. Men recognize that they are fat because they eat too much and do too little. Its not rocket science.
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This.
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Gunn, are you unable to see your hypocrisy?
The same reason they eat wrongly is the same reason you do.
Unless you’re on a paleo or another anachronistic diet, you have no room to talk about anybody else’s physique.
Now go swallow some more fat free margarine.
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“I suppose fat women are an easier target than the food and pharmeceutical industries.”
If women can’t control their consumption and sloth life style habits, we need government regulations that force these companies to offer only healthy “choices”. The FATTIES are victims. Poor things.
I’ll be picketing my local Taco Bell this afternoon. No Burrito Supremes for anyone exibiting a lack of self control with food.
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A key reason why they eat wrong is that they never learnt to cook. Why is it that girls brought up in the UK and US today believe that not being able to cook makes them more empowered?
The second key factor is exercise and general activity levels. If you sit around on your blubbery backside its no wonder that eventually you’ll look like you need to be harpooned.
You are correct that the ‘fat in food is bad’ myth is wrong, and almost causes as much harm becoming a fat whale. However, it is possible to eat healthily if you try.
Simply to throw your hands up and claim that because things aren’t perfect, you shouldn’t make any effort is just wrong.
And in response to your ad-hominem, I have allowed my diet to stray towards the paleo once I read up a bit on the dangers of high carb / low fat diets. Its now balanced between protein / fat / carbs in relatively equal amounts (possibly slightly lower carbs, slightly higher fat). I made this change with the minimum of fuss, and at the same time kicked off an exercise regime. I have never been fat (highest bmi I ever had would have been around 24.5) but nowadays I am fitter, stronger, and leaner than I have ever been. I also got basic cardio tests done when I started my exercise regime, and those are all completely normal too. As I say, its not hard to make the necessary changes to stay fit and healthy, you just need to make the effort.
Creating fatty pageants and blaming your husband because you lack self-control ultimately won’t cut it.
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There’s a site I found recently (http://theshapeofamother.com/) where women who have birthed babies post pictures of their horrifically misshapen, obese postpartum bodies.
The name of the game is Body Image Acceptance – women share their pictures and stories about how their husbands no longer find them attractive and watch porn and cheat on them (shocking, shocking), and other women talk about how they’re still Beautiful and Natural and stuff.
A previous article on this site dealt with sluttiness. Both fatness and sluttiness are aesthetic issues – demanding that others (men) find one attractive despite these characteristics like it’s some kind of MORAL issue is ridiculous. We can’t control our preferences, they are by and large NOT shaped by media but by biology, and it’s disingenuous and unwarranted to expect people to change them.
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But look at the bright side; America is now armed against any oil spill: just hammer one of these blobs into the broken pipeline, and oil is blocked forever.
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with two or tree of them, even an erupting volcano can be stopped
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This is most likely another myth that is often stated as fact.
The figurines that depict huge female figures are sometimes interpreted as some kind of sexual ideal, but there is no real evidence of that.
I also recall reading somewhere that the main painter of fat women seems to be Rubens, quite probably because he was a chubby-chaser and deviant.
In reality, in pretty much any scientific experiment that is done, men favor the class hourglass shape with the correct hip to waist ratio. This holds for men across all cultures.
Its possible that if we do see some cultures where fat women appear to be high status, that this reflects womens’ views on beauty rather than mens’.
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Okay, fat bashing hypocrites. I’ve changed my link in order to show you an example of leading by example instead of being a numbskullian douchebag with an inferiority complex vomitting his soy flakes all over the interweb.
Now, let me make myself crystal clear as plastic bubble packets of Clenbuterol and Adderal your weight loss gurus take while telling you that you’ll get there with proper diet and exercise.
I am not trying to tell men that they have to like fat women.
I am not trying to tell anyone that obesity is good for them.
What I am saying is that fat bashing is not going to get you where you think it will…a slimmer and more beautiful America.
A natural diet will.
So anybody here who eats anything that contains:
canola (or rape seed) oil
soy oil
soy lecithen
hydrogenated any-kind-of vegetable oil
unfermented grains
tofu or other unfermented soy products (unless you are menopausal and taking it in small amounts as a medicine)
please step away from the keyboard. You are not qualified to criticise anyone else’s eating habits because you yourself are “off feed” and only one organ hiccup or injury away from either obesity or the need to obsessively diet in order to keep your weight down.
Those who belong in this discussion are those who are aware that the reason we’re seeing the shift is because the big money folks don’t want to be honest about what’s causing obesity, specifically, an unnatural diet, city planning that leaves out sidewalks and certain facilities being within reasonable walking distance, removal of physical education programs from schools, pollution (especially plastics), and other things destroying the health of people of all sizes.
If you think being skinny makes you better, when you’re eating the same crap the fat people do, you’re just as ignorant as they are. That ignorance is going to cost you in terms of quality of life in your later years, as well as years off your life.
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Since men in general think more rationally and logically than women, they know that losing weight ultimately comes down to consuming less calories then you burn.
Women turn everything into a spiritual/emotional/Oprah experience and makes things wayyy more complicated than they are. I’m sure they are the primary drivers of the billion dollar weight-loss/diet industry, because many of them will buy into the latest “breakthough” diet, exercise machine or pill.
This is not to say losing weight is easy just because it comes down to “eat less, exercise more.” Obviously it’s quite difficult particularly if you have a slow metabolism and other biological issues, and if you grew up in decadent, indulgent America where food is abundant. Hunger is controlled by powerful biological mechanisms that bypass and overrule cognitive consciousness, I’m sure for evolutionary reasons.
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.
You missed out people eating enough to feed small african villages in one sitting, and who think gym is a boy’s name spelled wrong.
But that would require personal responsibility, right?
All the things you mentioned are factors, but ultimately each indiviudal is responsible for his or her own body. This is the basic message at the heart of much of mrm thinking: women need to learn that they themselves are accountable for their feelings, for where their life has taken them, for the lifestyle they lead, and so on.
Society panders to women by dismissing anything that might suggest they should look in the mirror and build the life they want to have step by step, nevermind if its hard or takes effort.
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Gunn, go natural and try to overeat.
Just try.
I went natural, and I lost weight. Everybody I know who went natural has lost weight. People who were big time overeaters and some who were even told they had food addictions lost weight.
So if you don’t believe me, remove all the crap from your diet, and eat as much as you can stuff in. See if you gain weight or lose weight.
I’ll be waiting.
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Oh, and Gunn. I don’t see how counting calories is taking personal responsibility, and going natural isn’t.
Can you explain that to me?
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It can be argued that these people are as large as they because their bodies are craving certain foods that they aren’t eating, but, that does not necessarily mean that given they had access to proper nutrition they wouldn’t eat more than they need. We would need to understand how human hunger functions, after all species like dogs are constantly hungry.
Having said that I don’t have much sympathy for someone who cant say no to a donut.
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It’s always someone elses fault.
They won’t take personal responsibility for their “empowerment” foibles.
It’s the patriarchy, it’s corporations, it’s the government…but NEVER is it them.
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False dichotomy.
I don’t believe in counting calories, and I never had much crap in my diet to begin with (fizzy drinks were basically the one thing I used to have that I have cut out entirely since the start of this year). Thats one of the major reasons I have never been fat. The other major reason is that I’m not a lazy slob.
I’m not disagreeing with your comments on natural diets; I have in fact changed much of my diet in this fashion myself (specifically, reduction in carbs and corresponding increase in fats).
What I do disagree with is your underlying message which seems to be that people should blame big faceless corporations for selling them crap rather than make the necessary changes to their diets and lifestyles.
Ultimately, people don’t have to wait for governments to change things. Just as you did, people can find the truth if they want to and make the changes they need to.
In the meantime, I will continue to mock fat people as I think they’re not only stupid, but lazy too. And hopefully by mocking rather than accepting, they may actually realize they have a problem.
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This is an example of taking personal responsibility for what you eat.
It matters little as to the path to weight loss, it is all about personal responsibility.
Eat natural, eat paleo, eat raw vegetables, sheet buffalo anuses, eat less, whatever.
Fix the food intake, start fixing the weight problem.
But that would require strength, discipline, and personal responsibility.
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Oh, and just to avoid misunderstanding:
There is a difference between not counting calories vs. putting enough food on your plate to feed a horse.
Whenever I travel to the US, I am amazed by two things about food in restaurants:
i. portion sizes
ii. the fact that people eat everything on the plate
In the UK, portion sizes are much smaller on average, which is I think one of the reasons why the people here aren’t as fat yet as in the US.
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Okay Scattered. You find me a fat person who went natural, who managed to keep overeating and gain weight.
I guarantee you that one person out of millions will be the one person who’d be fat in a refugee camp in Somalia.
This mystical person does not exist for the same reason a person who gains weight while reducing their caloric intake and increasing their activity doesn’t exist. It’s physically impossible.
When a person eats like their ancestors ate, it prevents them from overeating and gives them more energy than they know what to do with. If you ever wondered how people who weren’t slaves could work from dawn to dusk in the fields and not die from it, that’s how.
I understand that it can be mindblowing for some people to think that by making simple changes in one’s diet, they will no longer need to struggle to stay slim, but this is how it is. A lot of people have banked a lot of their ego on how hard they worked to get their body, and I can understand why they’d fight something like this.
Still, nutrition is not about your ego. It’s about how the body works. If you eat like a cow, you’ll look like a cow, or have to work very hard not to look like a cow. You’ll have to count your pellets to make sure you don’t have too many, and run farther to burn off those calorie dense pellets.
People will sell you fat free pellets, low calorie pellets, and all manner of pellets so you can feel like you’re eating the same thing but get less of the “bad” stuff…or the stuff you were told was bad.
…and you’ll always be hungry because you’re not a freaking cow. You’re a man. A man should eat like a man.
When I see the fat pageant contestants, I wish I was looking at women who were hypothyroid because of some kind of real disease or who got a knee injury earlier in life and accumulated fat while eating reasonably, but just couldn’t balance their activity level. I wish I was looking at women who were beautiful as they could be against the odds.
If that was the case, I wouldn’t bother with so much wordage. I’d just tell you guys to go fuck yourselves just as I would if you were picking on the Miss Wheelchair pageant.
…but that’s not the case. I know these women have what amounts to a disability that is 100% curable. I was actually hypothyroid, and going natural fixed that. I thought I was doomed and should just make the best of it, but I found the answer.
So now I’m pissed off.
I’m pissed off at the people who lied to me, and I’m pissed that so many people believe the lie.
So forgive me if I seem a little psycho about this issue. There’s just so much crap flung back and forth between fat acceptors and fat bashers, and both sides are mostly equally ignorant.
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If you are overweight, eat less food until you return to a normal weight.
That’s pretty much the key idea here.
There’s no need to overanalyze the level of hydrogenation in your lipids or the exact number of kilocalories per gram of your carbohydrates. A better choice of foods might help your overall health but it’s not the main cause of obesity: eating too much of anything will make you fat.
Eat less until you get skinny again.
Women love to talk about diets and do nothing. Men just skip a few meals or eat light for a few weeks.
In my family, the women always talk a good fight by buying overpriced organic foods and veggies. They then let the stuff slowly rot in the fridge and make their husbands go out and buy ice cream and pizza. It’s a classic female trait to obsess over the exact composition of their dinner and then stuff themselves with junk food an hour later.
It’s the sheer quantity of food that you consume that makes you blow up like a balloon, not infinitesimal differences in quality, you silly broads.
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Gunn, you’re free to mock whoever you like.
Just remember that people are free to mock you for your faults too.
I think guys who mock fat women are insecure fags. They should be doing something constructive like starting a walking club or an informal group…you know, doing something to make exercising fun, and teaching people about natural food…doing a makeover style kitchen cleanup or two…something real.
Instead they pick on people, which gives them no useful information. It’s faggy.
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It’s not bashing fat women, it’s bashing weak women with no self control but who still expect no consequences for their weakness and lack of self control.
I don’t care if you eat natural, eat paleo, eat vegetables, or eat elephant anuses. Just practice some good judgment and self control to start dealing with the fat problem. But no, we can’t expect that from women because that would hurt their feelings despite their strength and independence.
Women are so strong and independent but always manage to yield to the unholy power of cupcakes.
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Yeah Zammo…and you’re saying that to a woman running a free course on natural dieting.
Fag.
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Nicole, why don’t you take your message that women are helpless pawns in the clutches of evil men somewhere else, like The View or Oprah?
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Well, it’s been fun playing with the butthurt contingent (not all Spearhead guys are like this, thank goodness), but me and a friend have to go do my nightly 7k.
…and from all the former fatties and fatties in transition, keep mocking, fags. It’s people like you who give us stress to work off, and reasons to reject you when you suddenly notice us when we lose weight.
Ciao
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Pretty soon I’m going to have to start mocking you for your stupidity.
Why the hell should it be my responsibility, or anyone but the fat whale’s responsibility to organize the stuff you talk about?
Women should not need a man to create the perfect situation for them to make changes necessary in their lives. Isn’t that the stated message of feminism?
This is exactly whats wrong with anglo women these days: everything needs to be given to them on a plate, and then they need to be spoonfed.
As to my mocking fat people, its not coming from an angle of insecurity, its coming from honestly wanting them to realize that they’re unhealthy and they need to fix it.
I have told people within my family if I think they are fat for this reason. If there is an underlying health problem, then obviously I would not mock them or bring it up in conversation. But if they can make changes, even if those changes are hard, you can damn well bet I’m not going to stay silent.
The simple fact is that for the majority of heifers you see waddling around the streets these days, they could become thin if they felt enough social pressure to do so and if they exercised discipline over their food and over their lifestyle.
Sadly, whatever you may believe Nicole, your attitude is part of the problem here. You enable whales like these because you’re so busy frothing about unnatural foods that you forget that every human being has agency to make the changes they must in their own lives.
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Oh, ad hominem… I win the argument! Neener… neener…neener
[Zammo does the dance of victory while eating cupcakes.]
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I can say i experienced myself what Nicole is saying. To start i am slim, naturally slim and so is everyone in my family. I do not live in the States but did live there for 2 and a half years…and was 10 pounds heavier although i tried really really hard not to gain weight…excercising…splitting meals in restaurants with my roommate…eating less than i do now that i am home…it did not work…my weight rested at 10 lbs heavier…when i came back home by magic i am back to my normal weight
and plenty of my friends had similar weight gain experiences in the states…despite not eating more
So sure. You need will power to stay slim but it is still harder to do so in the States.
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Nicole is a good example of the typical North American woman. Avoid at all costs!
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@Just curious
I actually don’t have a problem with what Nicole was talking about in relation to natural diets, and I agree that natural foods (or at least foods which are not heavily processed) do seem to help in keeping people at ‘normal’ weights.
I think it is harmful however to give fat people the idea that they can’t do anything about how they are because their food supply is poisoned for the benefit of corporate profit. This attitude removes any responsibility they may feel for their own fate.
Maybe it was the way this discussion became polarised, but I think the key disagreement is with the posters that are saying that fat people need to hold themselves accountable for their weight and work out how to fix things and then actually make it happen vs. the posters who seem to be saying that even if these women are fat its not their fault so don’t call them fat or you’ll hurt their feeeeeeelings.
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Nobody is mocking the fatso. We are simply and quite innocently having fun just by looking at them.
Simple, honest fun. Has laughing become illegal, yet?
What’s more hilarious than watching a whale dip into a swimming pool in a huge sssplashhh…? A good laugh is good for your health: there are not many reasons to laugh nowadays: please do not remove the last part of the fun that still remains.
What can I say?… I roll on the floor when I see them trying to walk. Like penguins. It’s utterly funny and it gives me such an ego boost..
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Nicole-
I’ll stop making fun of heavy women when women stop making fun of unemployed/underemployed males.
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I don’t get it, Nicole seemed to agree with people here that it IS about eating habits and personal responsibility, and less often about underlying medical conditions. Yet we’re fags for what, not thinking that fat women are beautiful or not trying to help them out? Same goes for fat men- but as someone else said, there’s really no movement on the male side for them to be accepted as “beautiful as they are”. Or “beautiful on the inside”. Fuck that.
It’s not just about their looks – which are a turn-off in themselves – it’s about what it says about their personality. Impulsive, lazy, etc…MOST cases of obesity are a result of this. Yes, our food sucks in the U.S. in a lot of ways, but we deal with a lot of temptation. I could get black-out wasted every night off of tasty cheap alcohol. I could find some drugs. I COULD enjoy fast food every day since it’s so convenient, but *I* and many others find a way to abstain.
Most of the fat girls I ran into got that way in college. They ate like shit, they ate a LOT, and they constantly drank beer. Sorry, drinking Bud Light doesn’t fix things.
Most of us here are understanding about situations w/underlying medical conditions. None of us here want anything to do with someone who won’t help themself. I really hate our uber-positive-reinforcement-entitlement-ridden-individualistic culture.
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I think the feminidiots are working on it – as long as it isn’t a woman laughing at a man or men in general.
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Gents, for fuck sake cease feeding the troll/Nicole and keep the fat jokes coming.
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This is for you Nicole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzsWuqNlLK4
Now go away.
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I’m back, and yes, those of you talking trash instead of promoting solutions are fags. You prattle on just like weak ass girlymen while real fitness and martial arts instructors, nutritionists and doctors not on the big pharma bankroll, and people who are actually concerned about the fattening of the west are doing the real work.
I say again, I am not trying to make any of you think that fat is beautiful, or to say that anyone is powerless to do anything about their situation. What I’m saying is that ignorant fags like yourselves are not helping the situation, and are more likely to push people towards a bad solution.
If all you’re in this conversation to do is show off your waistline, you are not taking personal responsibility. You’re lording your “willpower” in eating fewer pellets than the next ignorant cow.
Big cow, small cow, still a cow. Got it?
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Gunn, if the fat should take personal responsibility for what they put in their mouths, you should take personal responsibility for what comes out of yours.
If you can morally justify mocking people who haven’t personally done anything wrong to you, and are just unaware of how to help themselves, or who have a legit mental problem, then they can morally justify overeating by the same measure.
Whatever entitles you to think people should show you any respect for being a douchey fag, is the same cultural dysfunction that makes them think guys should think they’re beautiful even though they’re obese.
In other words, a fag dissing a fatty should be the illustration next to the word “irony” in the dictionary.
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Alright, here’s a solution for all you fat retards out there:
-Stop eating shit food
See how easy that is?
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Nicole, I understand this is personal for you, but please refrain from starting a flame war. Get a grip on those emotions, and you’ll get your point across far more effectively.
I wouldn’t give you this advice if it weren’t something I have to make some effort to do myself.
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Alright, here’s a solution for all you fat retards out there:
-Stop eating shit food.
See how easy that is?
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Sorry to feed the troll boys, but this goes to Nicole: By “fags” are you refering to gay men? If so, does this mean you are homophobic?
Just wondering jackass…
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I got it, Welmer.
Part of my point though, is that opinions are like ass holes. Everyone’s got one.
The question is whose opinion matters more to someone who’s struggling with their weight, even though it really doesn’t have to be a struggle.
Between the fat bashers and the fad diets, where is someone supposed to get real information from?
A lot of guys here and elsewhere in the manosphere know the truth. I think it’s our responsibility to tell it rather than join the hate parade with whatever side of the fat acceptance or non acceptance fence we’re on.
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Wrong again, braying jackass Nicole. It’s not a “Hate Parade”.
It is, however, an ‘Indifference Parade’.
It all boils down to choices one makes.
Women really aren’t mysterious at all. In fact, they’re boringly predictable.
As are you.
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ZenCo, that was purposeful needling. I don’t actually think they’re homosexual, just engaging in the kind of status jockeying I often hear from my Gay acquaintances when a straight guy comes into view with an “ugly” woman.
“Why is he with that fat bitch?”
“Cute guy with a fat girl. He must be Gay.”
One of them is so flamboyant that he’ll go as far as to start flirting with a guy he sees with a fat girl. He’s a ladyboy, but usually dresses somewhat androgynous because he’s too old to pass without a ton of makeup.
Yet, for some reason, they never do this to me. They like me like fanboys. It’s weird.
Anyway, having heard way too much of that, I figured it would piss some guys off if I compared them to fags to get the point across that being on the other side of being mocked isn’t so much fun. It’s especially not much fun when the mocking has a grain of truth, but just a grain. The mocker isn’t looking at or at least not acknowledging the whole picture.
If I write you off as a fag and you write me off as an overeater with no impulse control, which one of us is right if one of us is status jockeying against women, and the other is fat?
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Maybe I’ve got an odd perspective on the weight issue, because in my adult life I’ve been both over and underweight without trying. For me, stress causes weight loss – sometimes severe, as in up to 15 lbs per month in the beginning – whereas complacency generally sees me pack on a few pounds, although not as quickly as I lose them when stressed.
The ironic thing is that although stress is obviously bad for one’s health, and I’ve suffered from it in physically tangible ways, the weight loss that came along with it did have some very noticeable benefits. When I’m keyed up, for some reason, my appetite just disappears. When I’m content, I can eat a great deal.
However, I know that it’s different for others, and like the friend I mentioned some people have a very difficult time with it. I don’t think it can be called a moral issue, because it’s obviously much harder for some people to control their appetite, and in my experience my appetite is often influenced by external factors.
However, I don’t think there’s any reason to “accept” obesity any more than there’s a reason to accept drug or alcohol addiction. It should be considered a matter of public health and welfare, and celebrating it is obscene in my opinion.
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Nicole, you’re a troll. And your shaming language reveals a deceitful and manipulative nature. You’re not fooling anyone here so grow up and learn to communicate like a real adult.
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First off, Nicole darling – I never insinuated, or even thought, you were overweight.
Secondly, I couldn’t give a friar’s-fart for the sexuality of anyone.
I think the overwhelming majority of the forward-thinkers here would agree.
A woman using jocularity like, “fag” is a bit like a white man referring to his black friends as ‘His Niggaz’.
It’s not your place and is only disrespectful.
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Welmer, obesity would be something better accepted than not, if people were fat for the same reasons, and in the same proportions as in the 1950′s or round about. This was a time, as I was told by my grandparents, that even the poor in most places in the U.S. didn’t starve if they were working dang near anywhere.
My grandparents fed 13 kids of their own, plus 5 unofficially adopted (taken in due to messed up parents), on a part time nurse (LPN) and a full time field hand’s pay.
There were poor fat people back then. Some folks actually managed to eat enough to become somewhat obese, but they usually worked office jobs, or were single and didn’t have who else they were obligated to feed. Some like one of my oldest aunts’ boyfriend’s sister managed to get a “sturdy” figure (not obese, but chunky) despite being a nurse. I’m sure whatever fat she had was just veneer for a good amount of muscle. That woman ate like a champ though. I’ve seen her.
…but nothing then was like things are today.
Something has gone wrong that should definitely not be accepted.
What makes it obscene to me is the same thing that makes the regular pageants obscene to me. I’d rather watch a fitness competition or MMA. Those are celebrations of health. Pageants are a celebration of optimal conformity. In this case, we have the “You go grrrrl, but don’t ask any of the hard questions.”
The usual line given by these representatives of ignorance is as cheesy as the skinny ones touting diet and exercise while taking Adderall for their supposed adult ADHD. “I spent most of my life struggling with my weight, but then I decided to stop struggling and celebrate my rolls, blah blah.”
None of them would say, “I spent most of my life struggling with my weight but then I found a book by Weston A. Price at my local used book shop, and I’ve lost 100 lbs. but still have a long way to go. The me you see is still fat, but I’m healthier now, and still losing weight…”
Oh no, that just wouldn’t do.
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There ARE fat women–when they carry their weight well–who can be stunningly beautiful! A lot depends upon her state of general health and well being , her sense of her own body and sexuality, and her attitudes, not only toward food and eating, but toward the men in her life, toward love, romance, and family, and her ability to cultivate her personality generally.
I would rather have a plump, voluptuous, and happy woman for a companion who was fun to be with, who was bright and had a good sense of humor, and was comfortable with her body then an (all too common) anorexically skinny neurotic mess who was always paying more atttention to her diets, drugs, and (imagined) weight gain than to me and our relationship! How about you??
It is just as silly to deny fat women recognition of THEIR attractiveness, as it would be to deny thin women(when they were otherwise healthy and happy) their allure and feminine charms.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
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These contests should have a milking category. That’s what really matters here, who can give the most milk.
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Additionally Nicole, respect is a two way street. If you want some you’d damn well better dish some out. So how does it feel to be the biggest hypocrite on this blog?. In your attempt to control men you call them fag like it’s going out of style. Yet you attempt to lead us to the moral high road. Nicole you’ve progressed from being a big joke to being rendered absolutely irrelevant. Go somewhere to learn how to become a civilized human being.
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No, they aren’t all hideous. In fact, if they lost a good deal of weight some of them could be quite attractive by ordinary standards.
However, what obesity does to one’s health can be pretty hideous, and tragic. A guy I know is morbidly obese, and I hardly think of him as a disgusting person (actually, he’s a very intelligent and good man), but it’s a damn shame and I worry about him.
Celebrating obesity is akin to celebrating smoking crack, in my opinion. Our efforts should be to eliminate obesity. If there’s anything that shows feminism up for the moral farce that it is, it is this “fat acceptance” movement. Overweight is one thing (I’m about ten pounds over my ideal at the moment), but these women are FAT.
—————————————
im not saying all of them are beautiful women by any stretch of the imagination but some of these pageants are to “celebrate” (whatever that means) women who arent waif thin tall models. Some of the women are hideous, some people can carry a few extras pounds depending on their frame and other features. A beautiful woman does not have to be 5’10 115 lb stereotype if there is indeed such a stereotype. It is funny that you mention crack, if drugs were legalized we would probably not have the obesity epidemic that we do.
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David-you’re making a stupid argument. Fat females have all the negative characteristics as the ones you’re criticising PLUS they usually have any even worse personality and sense of entitlement as the slim good looking girls. Slim good looking girls are always treated well and do not have the same resentment against men as the fatties.
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To MacArthur: Maybe that’s why she’s here!
“Go somewhere to learn how to become a civilized human being”
Too rich…
Getting it now, Nicole?
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Mac, you’re right. Respect is a two way street.
…
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Avenger says, “Slim good looking girls are always treated well and do not have the same resentment against men as the fatties.”
Wait…is he being sarcastic?
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Epoche says, “It is funny that you mention crack, if drugs were legalized we would probably not have the obesity epidemic that we do.”
No crack is needed. The magic pills are already legal, but currently being marketed as ADHD drugs. The best of them is Concerta, a time released stimulant.
Because it’s time released, you take one a day, and it does the job of helping you focus and pretty much removing your appetite.
Once the patent expires in November of next year, expect other versions to come out that will likely be marketed for weight loss.
To get a prescription, you’ll just need a checkup to make sure you don’t have any heart problems that it could aggravate.
It’s expensive, but it works. It probably won’t be so expensive after next year though.
If weight loss is really important to you, then take the drugs that really work under a doctor’s supervision. Still, the drugs won’t help you if while you’re on them, you’re not getting used to a natural diet. You’ll just gain the weight back.
Going natural, you might, like me, find that your body does best on an “eat, stop, eat” schedule. If you take Concerta, it’ll just smooth the transition. Once you’re off it, I recommend hoodia gordonii for a few months just to make sure.
I managed without the Concerta, but I do take hoodia. One of my friends is on Concerta.
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Wrong. Both fatness and sluttiness are moral issues – oh, unless you’re atheist, in which case, forget the issues, I don’t even know what you are living for. Me, not being atheist, they are both moral issues – humans can’t control their preferences, but don’t act like humans are incapable of self-control.
A person is morally obliged to stay healthy – nearly 100% of the time obese people are not healthy. That doesn’t mean that someone who is not obese is necessarily healthy, but health and obesity are different issues with regards to diet. If you eat healthy, in moderation and exercise, you will more than likely be a healthy weight – unless you actually have a health issue. But I would be reallly, really, hard-pressed to believe that the current influx of obese women is due to certifiable genetic disorders. If one could say they have a disorder, I would generally call it, “stop eating so much and get your fat ass off the couch.”
There is nothing worse than hearing about how so many of these women “have valid disorders,” and then if you go into Wal-mart you are guaranteed to see at least three people so fat they are riding laboring motorized carts and stuffing their baskets full of crap and highly-processed foods. Stop trying to give people an excuse to be irresponsible (do you advocate for Charles Manson too since his preference lay in the direction of murderous cult leader ? In principle, you must.)
I am so sick of the “it’s not their fault, it’s just how they are” excuse – whatever happened to working on bettering what you were naturally born with? So what if you weren’t born with a high metabolism, or you have a genetic propensity to gain weight? It doesn’t follow that you should just throw in the towel and embrace it. Oh, oh, wait, I forgot, there are no such things as flaws anymore – didn’t you know? Everyone is perfect, just the way they are. (Isn’t it weird how the self-help section at Barnes and Noble is so big though?)
“Fat is beautiful,” is just another level of people trying to act like everything humans do can and should be excusable. Whether it’s the fat issue, massive debt (yet the kids go out in designer jeans!), multiple-infant killings, or the insanity plea at a murder trial, the excuses are all bull shit. Take responsibility for yourself and your actions.
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I am absolutely serious Nicole and unlike you I deal with females as a man.
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Welmer, I’m surprised that this thread about female fat is not up to 300 comments. These articles seem to attract all the fat girls like Nicole lol
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Well, we may get back up to that level soon — things are picking back up now that I’m getting back into the swing of things. However, getting 400 comments in a day is just tiring to deal with, so I kind of hope not. Either way we can handle it.
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Avenger, if you are indeed serious, I’m going to assign that to one of those things I can’t teach you, but life will.
Just be advised that life is much, much more cruel than I could ever hope to be in my wildest nightmares.
Trent, so what do you think about drugs?
It takes about three years of eating 500 calories per day for a 250 lbs. woman to get down to 120 lbs.
How do you suppose one should accomplish this?
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See, this brings up a problem that I encounter on both the fat acceptor and fat basher side. Everybody wants what they want to happen ***RIGHT NOW***.
Fat acceptors want people to accept them for who they are, and not discriminate against them *right now*.
Fat bashers want to snap their fingers and have everybody be skinny *right now*.
Neither side seems to get the idea that changing a culture takes time. It doesn’t happen overnight. Then once it does happen, the benefits of a positive change will take time to happen.
It will take years before anybody who is currently obese actually loses enough weight to be classed as normal or a technically healthy weight. Years.
It will take years even if they are on the best drugs available, if they eat the recommended 2000 or so calories a day and exercise.
That will only happen with any consistency after massive cultural and political changes.
When those changes happen, fat pageants will go back to the level of fetish or niche competitions that nobody who isn’t into fat chicks will even notice. The fat chicks will also be healthier because they’re in transition or just love broccoli so damned much they have to eat a case of it at a time.
Folks on both sides are so sure they know what everybody’s problem is, but both sides are ignorant.
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The “Problem” is simple toots.
If you’re a fat hog, you probably don’t want to be a fat hog anymore.
Solution? Duct tape your mouth shut while spending 14 hours/day on the treadmill. I guarantee it will make EVERYONE in your life happier…
That was my last drink. G’night all…
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Zen, in the future, it would be wise for you not to ask for civility or respect from me that you are not willing to reciprocate.
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You can lose 100-150 pounds safely and effectively in 6- 9 months with a careful and only mildly calorie restricted to start with exercise.
I;ve seen it done many times. One key thing– get rid of carbs.
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Cecil, try a year at the minimum on an extremely calorie restricted diet (under 1000 cal/day).
If you’ve seen it done safely by people who are actually obese, and not just technically obese, without drugs or secret starving, then you’re able to somehow defy the laws of physics.
It’s messed up when the supposed fitness folks are just as illogical as the fat acceptors. It’s also grossly unethical to lie to people who are desperate about their prospects. Fitness is a lifelong occupation, and selling people lies about quick fixes only to have them feel like failures and fall off the wagon is like shady mechanics…breaking something so they have to go back to the shop.
I’ve seen people lose 100 lbs. in 9 months, but they were all on Medifast and stimulants, or just the stimulants.
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I heard a statement a while back and I wonder if ya’ll agree with it. It goes: “A woman’s relationship with food is like a man’s relationship with sex”.
It sounds right to me, but I’d like other opinions.
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Nicole, take a look at your mother and the other females in your bloodline because that’s what you’re intended ny nature to look like. Forget the diets and just eat anything and accept your fate as the jolly fat girl.
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Pedestalizing certain women for having pretty faces and nice figures has always bugged me ; why do we need to make them feel more entitled than they already are?
Pedestalizing fat women just for celebrating their fat just expands (pardon the pun) the entitlement cancer.
And if I laugh too loud at all of this?:
When women start throwing their bras and panties at fat, balding accountants (betas) then I’ll feel guilty for poking fun at women who celebrate excessive girth with a pageant.
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Avenger, personally, if I never lost another kilo, I’d be fine with myself. I come from sturdy women, and right now I’m about right for my age, if you look at the non crap eating members of my family. Most of my family is also very tall. My mom, grandma, and I are the mutant midgets at only 5’4″.
However, I understand that what’s good for me as an individual is not necessarily good for society. I should be different, not normal. Well, except maybe in the better areas of Togo.
Most other people I know who go natural lose weight more quickly than me doing less, likely because their appetites drop more and earlier. I’m in the third year and just a couple of months into settling into eating once a day. Some others reach that in year one.
I don’t buy “genetically fat” unless they have fat great and great great grandparents who actually did some real work. If they managed to be fat while working in the fields, doing construction, or somesuch, then okay, maybe they’re just big people, and should focus on being big, extremely active people. People like that, well, people like me are born strength and/or endurance athletes and martial artists.
It can’t possibly be good for any person who is naturally big to be inactive. Those kinds of genes should drive one to want to lift heavy objects or maybe even beat people up if they don’t do something with that energy.
Maybe this is why some fat women are infamous for being extremely aggressive. They don’t move enough, and get all pent up.
I *have to* walk and lift weights. It was a chore before I went natural, but now it’s therapy. I’ll bounce off the walls and start yelling at people about not folding the pants right if I don’t.
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Woggy, if it helps, one of my ex boyfriends is a fat, balding accountant.
I could throw my bra at him, but then he would shag me, and we’re trying not to do that, because he’s trying to get along with his cousin/wife.
Yep. He’s so beta, he’s in an arranged marriage.
…but isn’t that what fat chicks are for? We make betas feel good about themselves, sometimes as objects of ridicule and scorn, but sometimes more directly.
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An attempt at code lavender shaming language, followed by some weak-as-piss rationale why it was justified. 2/10, with credit included for effort.
I took a look at Nicole’s website, and its actually very good. Credit where its due, I think that advice that is put together well is definitely constructive.
What I don’t understand is why Nicole is on this site, attempting pathetically to shame men for mocking a pageant that celebrates fat women (and all that this implies), when her efforts would be better served going on to forums connected directly to these pageants and expressing her views there, along with links to her website.
My conclusion is that Nicole is not here to disseminate information about how one can eat well and get to a normal healthy weight. She’s actually here to try to shame men into fat acceptance by creating/promoting the strawman of ‘evil corporations made women fat’ as if it matters a jot.
One very simple question:
Ultimately, if a person is fat, whose responsibility is it for that person to get on the path to becoming healthier?
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The concept of calorie-restricted dieting is flawed. It’s hard to find accurate information…some say to simply “take in less than you burn,” but others say that at some point your body kicks into conservation mode and your metabolism slows down even more.
In my experience, working out hard and eating WELL means not taking in half your daily caloric requirement, but taking in the proper protein/carb/fat ratio- a high protein intake practically guarantees weight loss.
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The cooment section of the article was fun. Thank you Welmer.
BTW I like like em a little thick. It is hard to describe but I know iy when I see it. The thin model looking women and the ones shown as beautiful in most ads are good for taking pictures of and being seen with. “he is always with good looking women” But I have found a woman that is a little more curvy ,thick etc. feels better sexually.
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The women in the picture at the top of the article are fat chicks.
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First, I’m not sure if I got my point across. It MIGHT be that the choice to be fat or slutty is a moral issue, but what is NOT a moral issue is whether you find fat or slutty people attractive (or old, ugly, disabled, leprous, unfashionable, etc. people, for that matter).
People have logically inconsistent preferences all the time (wanting to have one’s cake and eat it too, in colloquial terms). One way that they try to satisfy logically inconsistent preferences (e.g., to eat all they want and still be considered sexually attractive) is to deny that the preferences are logically inconsistent. One way to do this is to insist that PEOPLE ARE WRONG (shallow, etc) to not find one sexually attractive if one is fat. In reality, people have their preferences, period, and they aren’t that open to change by introspection.
Second, I think it’s kind of retarded to make religious arguments in a secular society and expect them to have any weight. (I get the slut thing, but your god says it’s wrong to be fat? WTF?)
I am not sure I’ve ever heard a good non-religious explanation of why it’s wrong to be slutty.
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Gunn, who doesn’t think calling someone a whale is shaming language, but calling out someone who calls someone a whale is, says, “Ultimately, if a person is fat, whose responsibility is it for that person to get on the path to becoming healthier?”
One of the reasons more western women are fat is the same reason more western men are deaf and shooting blanks.
Whose responsibility is it, if a guy is deaf for the crime of being born male in the wrong womb in the wrong polluted area?
11 deaf kids in my daughter’s class, and about 30 in the school. Only three of them are female.
For a men’s rights enthusiast, you are quite uninformed. I recommend you educate yourself…and throw a big mattress down to buffer your impact when you fall off your high horse.
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Sox, it takes extreme starvation before the body actually kicks into “starvation mode”. Calorie reduction to the minimum required to keep all systems functioning is not going to hurt someone or make their body start cannibalizing itself so long as they’re getting enough, which is less than most people think.
If you really want to lose weight, ultimately, you will have to bring your burn higher than your consumption. In order to get started, step one is to go natural and stop eating excessive carbohydrates. That gets your body back into a nutritional state that you can survive a reduction of calories without feeling deprived.
The problem I have with the calories in-calories out simplistic view is that it has become a kind of ideology that doesn’t take optimal nutrition into account. During the first year of people going low to moderate carb or “100 year diet”, many people are making up for lost time and correcting deficiencies. Some get straight sooner than others, but it’s not a quick fix, so it’s not popular.
So the simplistic calorie reduction people get more press because it offers a fast solution, albeit a temporary one for most people. It’s putting the cart before the horse though.
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If you phrased your question as:
Whose responsibility is it to do something to make his life better by using a hearing aid or taking some other action to mitigate the problems he faces, if a guy is deaf for the crime of being born male in the wrong womb in the wrong polluted area?
Then I would answer, ‘the deaf guy’s’.
You can shout all you like about what causes fatness in people, but you can’t get away from the fact that eventually the individual has to start to fix whatever problems they face.
In a nutshell, this is the difference between the masculine and the feminine attitude – the masculine seeks to make things happen, whilst the feminine waits for things to happen.
I still have no idea why you’re angry beyond the fact that you want men to accept fat women as having a disability thats beyond their control, when your own life example shows that its within their power to change it if they did something.
Have you considered also that with all the female / feminist ranting about fat acceptance, and the glorification of fat, that its only through the use of mocking that cuts through all that that the woman is likely to understand that she has a problem?
Recently the BBC had an article on a similar vein to this – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10789553
Basically, the (female) minister stated that medicalizing a term (i.e. saying obese) meant that people were less likely to take responsibility to fix what was wrong with them.
You are doing exactly the same when you rant on about bad food, evil corporations and so on. You’re not actually helping these women, you’re enabling their poor life choices.
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Gonna have to stick up for Nicole here. She doesn’t want us to accept fatties as beautiful, but rather she wants us to view them as ignorant victims. I like laughing at fatties with everyone else here, but I’d rather educate them than scorn them. They need to know that it’s all about the paleo. Meat, fruit, vegetables, and nuts. It’s not enough to throw out the obvious junkfood like fries, coke, and candy bars, pasta and bread needs to be thrown out as well.
Alot of skinny people eat the same huge portions of junkfood as fatties, but their bodies don’t store the calories as fat. Of course their bodies may be quite malnourished but eh, as long as their not fat their healthy right?
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What’s to think about drugs? I don’t use them and at the very least consider the use of them stupid (oh, and immoral) unless medically necessary.
Not to be rude, but that just shows your ignorance with regards to religion then. Those who aren’t relativists in regards to religion don’t believe, like so many others do, that religion is left at the doorstep of every other subject. With my religion, it is an impossibility. And just to make the point of your ignorance, pulling the shock and awe bit b/c you can’t conceive of the idea that my beliefs would extend to, yes, God thinking overindulgence is a sin, I guess you’ve never heard of Gluttony as one of the seven deadly sins.
Speaking of a non-religious explanation of why it’s wrong to be slutty is a contradiction in terms – religion is the only thing which allows for or demands objective morality out of humans. With everyone else (and today, even with some “religions”), it’s relative, in which case there is no absolute wrong or right – it’s just a matter of personal opinion, how you “feel” about it.
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And you can be rude if you want – I called your argument retarded, which is pretty rude.
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Nicole: I don’t care what you weigh or how fat you are. I automatically dismiss 99% of the females as either fat, fugly or old. They are invisible to me.
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Gunn, in order for someone to have a choice, they have to have a choice.
If they don’t have the right information, how do they have a choice?
I have tried at least fifty different ways to compete with the calorie first dieting websites. It’s impossible. The Weston A. Price sites and hundreds of paleo and natural foodie blogs can’t even compete with them.
The diet industry is big business, and the lies they sell are incredibly popular. They have more doctors on their side because being a doctor doesn’t automatically make someone an independent thinker. I have personally had to update three who just wouldn’t have made the jump from controlling calorie intake to optimizing nutrition first and removing things from the diet that can sabotage a person’s natural appetite triggers.
As soon as I explain it to them, you can almost see a lightbulb over their heads. It makes perfect sense. Why, with their years of medical school didn’t they think of it?
…because nobody told them to.
When I see a herd of sheep on a barren pasture, I don’t blame the sheep. I blame the shepherd. The shepherd is where I focus my anger, not those who are blind followers, which most people are.
This is a side issue, but very important whenever you’re looking at a trend: just because *you* were able to do the digging and find the information or *you* were able to think independently enough to figure things out without being told, doesn’t mean that *everybody* can do that.
The vast majority of people cannot.
So when I look out on the herd of westerners who are fat or otherwise unhealthy in ways they shouldn’t be, I see many things happening all at once that can be boiled down to bad programming. These people didn’t program themselves. Nobody poor owns a television station, a medical school, or a newspaper.
There’s some advantage on the internet in that anyone with a computer and a connection can publish whatever they want, but that’s also the problem. Any crackpot can say whatever they like.
So how are people supposed to know who is right?
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@Nicole,
I now see where you are coming from. I can appreciate your frustration actually, particularly with the medical establishment.
I recently looked into diabetes, partly because through family history I am supposedly ‘high risk’ for it. What I found was shocking to me: 35-40 years ago, the treatment for type 2 diabetes would have recommended moderation of carbohydrate intake for obvious reasons. These days, the ‘treatments’ seem to consist of low fat/high carb (albeit low GI) diets with drugs to control the insulin levels.
To me, as a non-medically trained 3rd party, this seems like utter madness, as it seems to completely ignore the mechanism that causes diabetes. But you’re right, doctors are fed the lie by various groups that the low-fat diet is the ne plus ultra of good health.
It was partly from this realisation that I explored the paleo diets, and the atkins diet, and various articles/studies that looked at how diet affects the human body.
I guess you’re probably labelled a crank when you do post on forums talking about your natural diet, particlarly from the sheeple that just don’t any better and have never looked into it.
This may well be an area where ‘word-of-mouth’ recommendations for changing diets and lifestyles are more impactful than websites or other such media.
How about this, I will continue to call whales ‘whales’, but I’ll also point them at websites like yours?
Seriously though, I do see where you’re coming from and how frustrating it must be.
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Ethical philosophy is still subjective (perhaps I should use subjective instead of relative) to their view, their opinions, etc. Even given a person’s highly intuitive understanding of human nature, without Religion, it’s still all guess work and the morality of nearly anything could be argued as right or wrong. They might argue that their version of morality and ethics makes more sense, but it’s still just a subjective argument for a particular interpretation of what is moral.
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Ladies, this is simple. In fact, it is so simple that it is one of the few issues in the real world that can be reduced to a binary equation. If that phrase or concept boggles your mind, then look it up.
There are two alternatives, either: (1) the dick gets hard when you are naked, or (2) the dick does not get hard when you are naked.
If you are a sweaty pile of lard with a barely discoverable vagina slathered in moldy fat rolls stinking of rotten cheese, like these women in this ridiculous “pageant”, then (2) the dick will not get hard when you are naked. Period.
You may be able to easily fool yourselves and there is always some pussy out there who will tell you whatever you want to hear in a pathetic attempt to get laid, but you will never, ever be able to fool the dick. It is the ultimate bullshit detector when it comes to cumming. And all the little blue pills in the world or the 1 out of 100 men who are defective or pathetically pussified fattie chasers will never be able to help that.
So shut the hell up, stop making pathetic excuses to your fellow fattie friends over bottles of crappy wine as they nod sympathetically, pull the fork out of your gaping maw, and hit they gym at least five times a week.
Or don’t. Either way, if you aren’t willing to put in the effort to look good then rest assured that another woman down the street is and she’s the one who’s getting the job done while you sit home alone at night with the ice cream, cats, and home improvement television shows, looking forward to your thirty minutes in the dark with the industrial strength vibrator.
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Gunn says, “How about this, I will continue to call whales ‘whales’, but I’ll also point them at websites like yours?”
Tough love? I’m cool with that. It’s a deal.
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Woah, I just now started reading through this whole thing. No wonder we’re on 100+ replies since my favourite fat activist Nicole is here to defend her own obesity by attacking everyone else. Let me explain, Nicole, why you are not only fat but a fat idiot. You said:
The thing is Nicole, I’m sure I eat those things, yet I am not obese. Not even fat. Nor am I anorexic-looking or could I even qualify as skinny. I’m just an average weight. You know why? Because I don’t cram as much of it down my throat as I can find while sitting on my ass 24/7.
Your argument is as stupid as you are fat. Those foods, in and of themselves, are not the cause of obesity. A lack of self-control is. People who were unable to just have one rather than twelve hundred in a sitting. Obesity is something that individuals bring upon themselves. The reason why fat activism is mostly women has already been spelled out: fat men know why they’re fat, they know that ultimately it’s their own doing, and so they don’t bitch about others as if it’s anyone else’s fault. For this reason, I respect most fat men. But fat women who want to blame ‘society’ as they guzzle down three boxes of chocolate whipped cream doughnuts? Yeah, I’m absolutely brimming with respect. Wipe the chocolate from your mouth before you smash out a response to me with those sausage-fingers.
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HAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ‘INSECURE FAGS’!!! God, I laughed so hard a tear actually came to my eye. I’m not even mocking you here. That was sheer brilliance. Sincerely.
But, onto your points. Why do you think that men aren’t doing constructive and ‘real’ things AS WELL as occasionally typing out messages on the internet? False dichotomy.
And typing said messages don’t have to yield information. What the hell? Is this the purpose of every online communication? We also share experiences and entertain ourselves and each other. So it’s not pointless at all. It’s entertainment.
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Exactly my point, Nicole.
When we fat-bash, we are providing a service that you require. We are shaming you to get you back into shape.
So really, you should LOVE us for fat-bashing. Right? … Because that’s the logical consequence of what you said … right?
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Yes, luckily there is a single, unitary body of inarguable ethical reality with religion that is not up for interpretation or debate. Everybody agrees that divorce, dancing, and money lending is wrong, and beating your children, killing your son if your god tells you, and tithing are required.
Oh, wait . . .
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Nicole, with all due respect, I think you’re a dictator and an authoritarian. You can slice it, dice it, sugarcoat it, throw in statistics, but when the rubber meets the road, you have no respect for other people’s rights. I am under no obligation to make fatties feel good after they’ve made lousy life style choices that they refuse to take responsibility for. And I don’t notice you standing up for fat men. I guess they’re on their own.
And if I want to mock lardasses, that right is protected as freedom of speech. Until Welmer stepped in, you were exercising your right to call anyone who disagrees with you fags. This is sad because you attempt to deny me and others our rights, yet you try deny the the natural consequences of their bad choices. Good intentions are no excuse for trampling on people’s right. I could take you seriously if you would take my rights seriously.
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The swimsuit, evening gown and questionnaire events have been replaces with Hog tying, mud wallowing and a hot dog eating contest.
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… At The Spearhead, or more generally?
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LOL I appreciate your humor, even if it was a completely misunderstood and pagan interpretation of the Bible.
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Snark says, “So really, you should LOVE us for fat-bashing. Right? … Because that’s the logical consequence of what you said … right?”
Though I am grateful in a way to my adversaries, I understand that the reason anyone in a similar or lower position than myself in the natural hierarchy would choose to be my enemy is to boost their position. So necessity deems that I fight them with whatever tools are available to me and prudent at the moment.
So no, it’s nothing personal, but as I become a better me, which may or may not include becoming substantially thinner, people who picked on me when I was fat are going to be just as away from me as they were before. I would rather spend my time with guys who were encouraging and helpful rather than those who tried to sabotage my efforts by making me feel bad about myself, which, if I were a food addict, would drive me to binging or starving, rather than balanced behavior.
You can shame a woman into losing weight, but you can’t shame someone into liking you.
Mac says, “Nicole, with all due respect, I think you’re a dictator and an authoritarian.”
Thank you. I think you’re one of the few people who understands me about 1%.
Unfortunately, you then go into rights and such. I wouldn’t be into men’s rights if I didn’t believe in nature. In nature, might makes right.
So you have a right to pick on those who are weaker than you, but if their number makes them collectively stronger than you then your strategy of shooting in the dark rather than taking out the targets that matter is, to say the least…unwise.
Some may call it short sighted. I prefer to call it cowardly and stupid. Cowardly because it is like, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, pigs in a factory farm, cannibalizing a wounded pig when they are all on their way to being sausage…stupid because whatever you gain from it merely fattens you up faster in the way of boosting your ego within a phony feministic hierarchy only to be subject to the same crippling inability to stop squirming in the bottleneck to get something you don’t need and wouldn’t suit you.
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One of the things that I always seem to forget is that women do think differently to men. I tend to believe that others will look logically at a situation, take in the big picture whilst also identifying areas to analyse in more detail so that the overall understanding one has is well suited.
This perspective is very much based on the reality of the world, and what is objectively out there. In such a thought-process, one does not to see people as being tools to be used for maximum leverage for one’s own purposes.
So when Nicole says:
it jolts me back to the status-hierarchy reality that underline womens’ thoughts.
Whilst I can happily come to an accommodation on shaming whales whilst pointing out how they can effect changes in their lives, I cannot accommodate the egotistical arrogance bordering on hubris that goes with the statement above.
For women in the west, including Nicole in particular, the root of the problem that one sees with them is this belief in superiority which is not founded on any personal characteristics (which are often in fact undeveloped and emotionally and mentally childlike), but is instead the product of a system that has bent over backwards to provide them with all the rewards that they believe (falsely) they are entitled to. A system built by the hard work and resources of men who are continually stolen from and denied the fruits of their labors.
Whatever Nicole may believe on food and fat women, and why they are not thin, the above statement tells me clearly that she is fully and stridently feminist in her scorn for the men that she (incorrectly) sees as ‘below’ her.
For Nicole, her former size is probably something that she feels kept her ‘down’, and her sympathies are with the other fat women out there who she feels are naturally entitled to be above the ‘betas’ (or, in Nicole’s words, ‘fags’) who mock them. I can see now that the reason for the cast-iron belief that there is no possible personal responsibility that these women have for their own weight is because if they were accountable, then maybe they would deserve their lowly place on the hierarchy. And for a feminist, that would never do.
Utterly, utterly sick. Reminds me why I try to avoid feminists whenever I can.
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Nicole, I truly don’t seek a war with you. But I find your condescending attitude toward men utterly insulting. If I don’t want to feel sorry for fat chicks then I don’t have to. But you have no right to throw me under the bus because we don’t see eye to eye. In your perfect little feminist utopia, men would be forced and shamed into doing things your way because you obviously know what’s best for us.
I find it curious that today’s “empowered” and “liberated” women adhere to no authority or moral standard. But they’ve convinced themselves that they are superior to men by virtue of the fact that they were born with a vagina.
Get off of it. Feminism has turned women into male-bashing supremacists of which you are a prime example. Here’s $5.00. Go buy yourself some humility.
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Just how did either of you extrapolate from what I said, that women are superior to men?
I’m curious.
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Because, as I said, most people are not independent thinkers, I believe that I may have been too cryptic. So I will try to word this clarification as simply as I possibly can.
1. Most people (that is men and women) are fatally socially dependent.
By “fatally socially dependent”, I mean that they will do things that are harmful to themselves, simply because they are popular or expected.
2. Because I am not fatally socially dependent, I have some trouble relating to people who are.
3. Although I am not fatally socially dependent, I do have some social dependency on particular people I have bonded with, such as friends and family members with a similar mentality to myself. These are the people whose opinions and criticism matters to me. So I’m not quite autistic, just a comfortable freak.
4. The freakish genes that gave me my mind are not unique to myself in my family. Most of us are weird nerdy people. In that genetic combination, we also got unusual size and strength.
5. Because one’s external biology often affects one’s psychology, I grew up understanding that might makes right, regardless of what was trendy. This is very counter feminist or really any kind of equalist. I’m more of an idealistic gender complimentary egalitarian, or basically secular humanist. I believe that feminism was going too far, even way back in the day (early 1900′s).
6. Understanding the history of feminism and secularism, I understand that the “thin is in” craze is a feminist social programming measure to shift the male aesthetic preference away from softer, more feminine women in favor of boyishly thin “fit”, muscular manjawed women. Women before the 1970′s tried to stay thin because they wanted to maintain a feminine size differential compared to men. Being petite was a good thing, but there were sane limits. The ideal beauty represented nubile youth, not grrrrl power.
7. At the same time, men were encouraged not to view physical strength as a defining quality. Men were supposed to abandon old “barbaric” rites of passage in favor of the new, sensitive male.
8. In order to sell the west on this, there had to be a selling point, and that was sex. The new boyishly thin, liberated model who whipped her body into tip top shape and maintained this for life, was the representative of sexual freedom. Sensitive men who bought the new “masculinity” were promised and endless string of “liberated” women with the new “femininity” shagging them with no rules, and no obligations. FREE SEX!
9. Things…didn’t quite work out this way. Yet billions are spent by women pursuing that “liberated” body, and billions are spent by men looking at it and wanking to it. Money is being made selling the promise of free male attention and free sex with hot chicks.
10. Meanwhile, the diets that were sold to the women aren’t working. Women are getting fatter despite going through deprivation cycles. They don’t know those deprivation cycles make the body think they have extremely hard winters or dry seasons and need to stock up. They also don’t know that the new “food” is wrecking their systems.
11. In the name of better health, westerners are being told to avoid meat, dairy, and eggs. They’re being told that meat is murder and that everyone should be vegetarian. Liberated women don’t eat meat, and liberated men don’t kill it. So everybody eats their cow pellets. Yum yum. Oops! Invasion of whales.
12. Western women are fatter and lacking energy and motivation. Western men’s sperm counts are dropping like stones. More boys are being born deaf. The new “food” is packaged in new plastics, the production of which, and the waste from which, is devastating the environment, not far away in some remote desert, but right next door. People get cancer more often and at younger ages. Shit is fucked up.
13. …and some numbskulls who don’t have any idea what is going on, the same dumbasses who would kick some crippled kid’s wheelchair in elementary school, get it in their heads to pick on fat chicks.
…
14. Exactly how am I supposed to feel in any way inferior to someone whose mentality is stuck at the level of some 3rd grade wannabe bullies?
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Well for one, you only defend women. I don’t see you getting all bent out of shape about fat men. As far as you’re concerned they’re on their own. But my bad. You failed to differentiate between male and female fags. So next time I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. By the way do you use the word fag around your gay male friends? Or do you even have any? I’m willing to bet that you’re the kind of person who says fag out of one side of your mouth and homophobe out of the other, depending on whom you’re attempting to control at the moment.
There’s this funny law that I adhere to. I compliment my friends and insult my perceived enemies. I don’t know your take on this but I assume we’re in the same boat. And what’s with all the psychobabble? Where did you learn that? Where can I sign up for classes. They’ll come in handy when I want to confuse my friends. In a respectful way of course. And lastly, thank you for respecting my right to do, think and say as I please. Without fear of your wrath.
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Mac, if you must know, I do have Gay friends. I’ve marched in a few pride parades. I just don’t hang out with them a whole lot because their lifestyle isn’t compatible with mine. I get along better with some of my Bi male friends who are more masculine and understand why I don’t want to go to an orgy.
…and Gay or Bi, they know the difference between calling someone a fag because of homophobia, and calling someone a fag because they’re a pussy.
Would you rather I used the term “pussy”?
I think fat bashers are pussies.
If someone simply isn’t attracted to fat women, they can be indifferent. Anger precludes indifference and indicates that someone feels threatened. I can understand being angry and feeling threatened by obesity becoming a trend, but if you know how it happened, picking on the fat chicks themselves is misdirected anger: stupid.
If you do know what’s causing it or have even a remote idea, then it’s even worse: pussy-like.
It’s picking on the small targets because you’re too chickenshit and lazy to take on the big ones.
Ooh, that’s a good word: chickenshit. Would you prefer that one?
I think fat bashers are chickenshit.
So you can choose which one you wish to be called when you pick on fat women who may or may not be genetically fat, but are either that, misinformed, or mentally ill.
A. a fag
B. a pussy
C. chickenshit
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I get so tired of having to go around the same endless circles with haters who all look the same in text, that I sometimes forget important details.
As part of the definition of “fatally socially dependent”, it includes people who will readily harm or kill others because it is popular or because someone in a supposed position of authority tells them to. See: Milgram experiment.
It may interest you to note that though only a relatively small percentage of males pass such tests by resisting influence, a *significantly* higher number of men pass the test than women.
This likely means that women are much more susceptible to cultural/social programming than men. This should be taken into account before kicking someone’s wheelchair.
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So many evasions, so many strawmen.
A variant ad-hominem attack that puts up the false dichotomoy that if one doesn’t agree with your reasoning, then one is a sheep following the herd. Of course, beyond the fact that you advocate a low carb / natural approach to food (which incidentally is an extremely common viewpoint amongst the mra crowd, perhaps because most of the guys in the mra see reality for what it is), your arguments are all classically feminist.
As has been noted, your sympathies are reserved for the fat women, no mention made of fat men. The continuing resistance to allowing even the slightest accountability for lifestyle changes on these women, along with your allusion to status hierarchy is pure feminism.
I also liked the strawman that anyone who mocks is angry. This is false. Some might find it disgusting, others might see it as a lack of strong character and will, others might find it amusing, whilst others still are indifferent in that they mock because they don’t even see these she-whales as being human.
Throwing around accusations of bullying at 3rd grade level or stunted intellectual ability, when you persistently evade the concept of any accountability on the part of the ‘victims’ is risible.
And as for the contention that you are somehow cleverer, or more perceptive… well, as I say, the concept of low carb isn’t exactly news in the manosphere. But don’t let the facts get in the way of the distorted reality you want to paint about how it takes some kind of 1-in-a-million special snowflake to have the intelligence to see whats fairly obvious with even a small amount of digging.
And as for this:
I’m curious.
well, it came from this:
This one paragraph speaks volumes on the true intent behind your posts here. It demonstrates exactly how you see the world, your place in it, and where you want to place those men (fags? pussies? chickenshit? random new term of abuse?) who don’t agree with you or who don’t particularly care enough about saving the whales when those whales are not expected to pick up any of the responsibilities for their own lives.
I stick to what I said earlier: I think your website has some good information on natural diets, and its a constructive effort. I will advise people of my thoughts on the low-carb diet (and in fact have been doing since I discovered the truth behind it about a year ago) and maybe even point them to your site (or one of the alternatives that talk about similar diets). However, I find your attitude to men in general to be classically feminist with an underlying assumption of female superiority. I don’t have time for that.
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Nicole, of all the trolls I’ve encountered since becoming an MRA you are one of the hardest cases. There is virtually no end to your bullshit. As soon as you seem to be pulling yourself out of it you delightfully and enthusiastically plunge right back into it. Because you love wallowing in your own mental filth. I’m no longer going to waste my time trying to get you to see the light because you worship the darkness. Are you aware that dishonesty is evil?
Speaking of honesty, when I was in AA my sponsors used to warn about certain personality types. They stated that some people will never get or stay sober because they are completely incapable of being honest with themselves or others. This description fits you to a T. Your views will remain irrelevant because you are incapable of being honest. And I suppose that’s some man’s fault too.
I used to to fall for such troll tricks that you so enjoy dishing out. But now I’m on to you Nicole. And everyone else on this blog is too. Why don’t you troll on over to femifisting where you can find plenty of sycophants to co-sign your bullshit? Gentlemen, Nicole is your typical American woman. Be warned. Since I am so fed up with all your games I’m going to do you a great disservice. I’m going to deny you what you crave most:
ATTENTION!
Nicole consider yourself banned. And to my fellow MRAs if you catch me feeding the troll, feel free to slap me.
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Facts be damned, this is going to be a personality conflict.
Fine.
Enjoy your trip to oblivion. Just please spare me your kvetching along the way.
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Gunn says, “However, I find your attitude to men in general to be classically feminist with an underlying assumption of female superiority.”
How many times did I say “might makes right”?
What part of that did you fail to understand?
For the life of me, I can’t figure out how you got female superiority from “might makes right”.
…but *I’m* a troll and dishonest???
Thank you and Mac for proving my point about fat bashers. I am so glad that I had a father who was superior to the two of you in *every* way.
If I had to be raised by such low men, I would be a feminist, and I would have taken the synthroid, and be much thinner, but oh so much more of a bottom feeding amoeba trying to pass itself off as a human being…doom myself to a life of unnecessary drug dependency just to be prettier to “people” like you.
Biomechanics *is* God.
I thank Nature for each and every bit of my precious DNA, including the ones that contributed to my low tolerance to shit “food”. I consider it a “worth it” tradeoff.
I’m gonna call my parents and thank them.
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I don’t think Nicole is a troll. She laid out her argument pretty much in full in a numbered list (which is especially good here because men love things to be in lists, at least I do), and I can see what she believes. She has a different view here but she’s not a troll.
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She may or may not be a troll but she’s certainly a fat girl looking for male attention
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Nicole,
I’ve been eating a Paleo/Weston Price influenced diet for years. And I let people know this, and I have a reputation as an intelligent man. But I have had absolutely zero success at influencing the eating habits of anyone around me. Because people don’t want to think.
I don’t blame fat people for their ignorance. But I do blame them for being comfortable with denial, with not wanting to learn, not wanting to admit they have a problem.
I have never mocked anyone for being fat, and I don’t intend to start.
But I do feel overweight people – both men and women – have let me down and indirectly reduced my personal happiness.
Because I CANNOT summon up any attraction for an overweight woman. My brain simply isn’t wired that way. I’ve always been slim and I’m attracted to slim women. But I live in a country full of overweight women. The pool of women I personally find attractive has shrunk dramatically due to the obesity epidemic, and as a thin but low-status man I don’t have enough pull to score one of the relatively few slim girls who are left. The fact that I’m slim doesn’t help me because women are more concerned with status and social dominance.
Like most things, the people most to blame are a few men at the top. But there’s enough blame to go around.
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Perfectly said, ThousandMileMargin: Im in my mid 40′s, live in the mid-south, and there are extremely few same slender women left that I have a shot at. Even worse, I find that the women that still look good in their 40′s and 50′s become cougars, simply because they can–they have little competition for successful men. The obesity epidemic is the major reason I will never find a good wife, and will remain unmarried my entire life.
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I won’t refute this, but keep in mind that very nearly all women are looking for male attention, whether they are fat or not. Once you realise that most women are seeking male approval above all else, dealing with them becomes a lot easier.
Far too many men think it is up to them to garner women’s approval. HA! What a crock of shit. Always bound to backfire.
But those guys fall over themselves to ‘please’ women, which means in practice that they give THEIR approval away far too easily.
Withholding approval will make them desperate to earn it by changing their behaviour.
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Anonymous says, “She may or may not be a troll but she’s certainly a fat girl looking for male attention”
I like male attention. I prefer it to be positive, but when you’re in my position, you can’t really expect all or most of it to be positive.
If I was a docile fat girl who behaved like she hated herself totally for having one visible flaw (which may or may not be an actual flaw, and could have been a beneficial adaptive response), I would catch a lot less hell. Most of the time, it isn’t about actually conforming, but behaving as if you want to.
I know the game. I just play it my way.
TMM, since you know the game as well, what’s stopping you from playing it your way?
There are places in the world where women are skinnier. Like I did, if you’re not getting what you need where you are, go someplace that has what you need. Like Nietzsche said, don’t look to the land of your fathers. Look to the land of your sons.
The U.S. for me was too much like a factory pig farm for humans. I lived in Italy for 3 years during my teens, and got a major culture shock when I returned to the U.S. I was surrounded by people who were worried about the wrong thing and addicted to misery, after having spent 3 years among people who had real issues to deal with and grew up on time.
So when I encountered an Israeli guy who got me, I figured it was something like destiny, and jumped. Here in the mediterranean, there are fewer fat women under 40, but the few there are don’t catch the hell they do in the U.S.
The only problem here is that feminism is doing similar things here that it did in the U.S. including changing how women cook and eat, and making them think it’s okay to dress like sausage with a spandex casing. As a big woman myself, I figure the least we can do for the sake of men is dress well.
Hopefully, since it’s a small country, it’ll be easier to nip some of this in the bud. I post articles from here and from game sites for my facebook friends who can read English. A friend of mine translates and relays some of it to his peers.
Anyway, save up if you can, and try a change of scenery. If not, then you might have to thug it up or at least try looking dangerous.
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Yours is a might backed up by immoral feminist frameworks that use the force of law and government to enforce the diktats of the ‘majority’.
For absolute clarity here, I’m not fat bashing, I’m stating that I think you perosnally have a female supremacist / feminist viewpoint that I abhor.
If your father was as superior as you claim, I doubt you’d have grown fat. Or become a feminist.
Nice ad-hom. In fact, if you read the comments made, you’d realise you’d have been raised to be accountable for your behaviour. This would have meant you’d have stayed thin for good healthy reasons (including the fact that you’d have been in a household where properly home-cooked meals were provided, not some processed crap because your mother was off being a ‘career woman’), and feminism would have been anathema to you. But carry on with your delusions.
Snark said
I agree, she’s not a troll. But she is a feminist through and through, and her comments spring from that source.
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Gunn, just keep digging that hole deeper.
You flipped the high voltage switch. No matter what I am or am not, your reaction to the prod is what it is.
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I actually don’t fully understand what you’re trying to get at with:
But you should realise Nicole that you’re not coming across as particularly intelligent or articulate.
Whether you like it or not, your underlying belief systems do come across as pure feminist. If you do not consider yourself a feminist as the conscious level, then you should maybe think about why there is a disconnect here.
Just to spell it out completely for you (as you seem prone to misunderstanding):
I am no longer talking about the fat issue; as far as I’m concerned, that was resolved a while back in that I agree with the natural diets etc (but not that there should be no accountability whatsoever on the part of the fat person).
What I am commenting on now is the fact that you’re bringing a female supremacist mindset to the table (maybe without even fully realising it) and this is clearly coloring the way you approach the fat issue.
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To be frank. I sparred with Nicole before (unless I’m much mistaken?) and her comments this time around are far more civil. Even after I went after her, she fired a shot back but I detected no trace of female supremacism.
I get that, expecting everyone else to take responsibility for one’s own choices is very much a feminist thing.
But it’s not JUST a feminist thing. You find it among other groups too.
So I don’t consider Nicole to be a feminist. I haven’t seen the evidence for it. The ‘insecure fags’ comment had me nearly in tears with laughter so it didn’t really work as shaming language.
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Gunn, what I mean by flipping the high voltage switch is that you interpreted one of the writers’ making a post about the overblown sense of entitlement in western women being reflected in their attempts to make the deviant normal, as an opportunity to fat bash rather than entitlement bash.
Now, you are attempting to justify it.
It’s why they say that a junkie shouldn’t be a dealer. Please Google Milgram experiment. Read about it. Watch the videos. They will be very enlightening for you.
If you hadn’t, instead of going back and forth because I’m skeptical that providing any more perspective would do any good, I’d be well into explaining how rape culture contributes to obesity. I’ve written before on how it was difficult for me personally to maintain a feminine size differential while consistently facing situations in which I did not have the luxury of male protection, but needed it, combined with media paranoia.
…but why should I bother?
Snark, again, I would like you to explain how cleaning up one’s diet and getting more activity in one’s life is not taking responsibility for one’s condition.
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Well, I don’t think you’ve asked me this before. I think you asked this of someone else up there.
As for me, I think that IS precisely taking responsibility for one’s own life.
My issue was never with this.
It was with some of your other statements to the opposite effect – not about yourself, I don’t think – that people shouldn’t be blamed for their weight when they eat tons of fast food and don’t exercise. The argument that came across is that society ‘made them’ do it and that they had no choice in the matter. Which is plain bullshit.
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Snark, I get what you’re saying now.
This is a matter of perspective. I’ve actually been fat, and close to quite a few fat people. I can visibly tell the difference between a fat person who accumulated it eating relatively healthy food but working a sedentary job and not having much energy for other activity, and a junk food addict. I wouldn’t class either as irresponsible unless the irresponsibility extended to other areas of their lives.
From looking at a person, I can pretty much tell you how they got fat, but I couldn’t tell you why. If you’re telepathic enough to know then you’re better at this than me.
However, I think a person who would calorie count is a responsible, but misinformed person. Almost every fat person I know of ever heard of has been on multiple calorie counting type diets. One poor girl I know is on some crazy ayurvedic sounding color diet. My mom, influenced by her professional peers, tried many diets, and exercised so religiously and so much that she ruined her knees.
I don’t know but two fat ladies who’ve never been on a calorie counting diet, and that’s my Grandma on my dad’s side and my Great Grandad’s nurse…the one who I mentioned, ate like a champ, but just didn’t eat junk.
I see a whole lot of entitlement from both men and women, but I don’t see a whole lot of body irresponsibility from fat women. I see a lot of desperation, and sometimes resignation, but all of them would lose weight if they knew of a safe, plausible way of doing it that their doctors and others recognized as legitimate.
You can blame people for being ignorant, but I don’t.
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But it’s not a matter of ignorance Nicole. More like wilful laziness and stupidity, then wilful refusal to take responsibility, and a wilful decision to blame others and ‘society’.
I’m quite happy to blame people for those things, and I guess that’s where we part ways.
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Snark, do you think people who take drugs or get surgery to be slim are willfully lazy too?
Really, the only people who are fat enough that people notice it anymore are people who can’t afford the drugs or the surgery, or are too old to care.
Now, I can buy the laziness thing if you think the poor are willfully lazy. Some people do.
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You should give her a break. The American diet is indeed special. The food is very tasty, rich and enticing. And the food is everywhere. It is quite shocking. It’s in your face, very tempting, where ever you go. It’s a huge industry. Why in the world would you need a food vendor in a sports stadium? You’re there to watch the sport, not to eat! And even if you have the wonderful Whole foods… it’s more expensive.. and people will still select a pizza over a salad.. because pizza is tastier. Boys in the cafeteria do that all the time.. there is a tiny queue by the fat-free meals and a huge line where pizza is served. You can’t blame them. The American food is just so tasty and diverse… even the somewhat normal and relatively healthy types of food, such as the gumbo soup, is irresistable. There is something in the taste… and the quantity of course, there are just too many calories in it and maybe other substances to make it more tasty. Also, think about the advertisements… too many and too hard core.
It’s simply not like that in Europe, it’s not all about consumption 24/7. Having said that.. Of course, the women have let loose and they don’t care – why would they, if the men are somewhat available for sex and dating, and the women make their own money – they are not dependent on the men so technically why would they care what men think, unless they want to get a sexier man.
There is simply no point in trying because you know the man can leave anyway. Besides they are comfortable the way they are.
On the other hand, the beauty standard that is promoted by the media is more harsh on women in the States than Europe. In Europe, women are not tortured by unattainable beauty standards as much as in the States.
It is much easier to stay fit in Europe (except probably the UK, women are really fat there too, but it could be genetic) than in the States. It’s unfortunate…
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Ugh. I should have expected Skadi to pop up.
The two of you are like Cyber Sisters.
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Yes. They’re taking the easy options because losing weight is hard work. It’s pathetic.
How like a woman to try to turn this into victimisation. No, Nicole, it’s not a class issue, because not every poor person is fat. Many are not fat, now how do you think they managed that? Your equation of the two (poor = fat) shows who the real classist here is.
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Yes. They’re taking the easy options because losing weight is hard work. It’s pathetic.
How like a woman to try to turn this into victimisation. No, Nicole, it’s not a class issue, because not every poor person is fat. Many are not fat, now how do you think they managed that? Your equation of the two (poor = fat) shows who the real classist here is.
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Listen to what you are saying, Skadi.
People have the choice between healthy food and unhealthy tasty food.
They choose the unhealthy tasty food.
But you can’t blame them for that.
For God’s sake, what is wrong with you people? Do you have absolutely no concept of personal responsibility? Do you think you are entitled to defy biology and cram yourselves full of junk food while maintaining an acceptable figure? Why is this so hard to understand?
Choosing the unhealthy food is simply a sign that they lack willpower, Skadi. Obviously some people are eating the healthy food, because it is there. If nobody was eating it, it wouldn’t be there. Those people have willpower. Do you understand now? No? Didn’t think so. Keep on defending the indefensible and insisting that fat people have no autonomy.
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Snark it is very much a class issue.
How can you tell whether someone is willfully lazy or just poor from looking at them?
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Anonymous, personal responsibility applies to more than food. If a person chooses to use drugs instead of eating, they’re going to be thin, and most of you tools will think they’re hot. You wouldn’t call them willfully lazy because all it takes to be hot in the U.S. is to be skinny.
…and before you say not, I constantly got passed over for a friend of mine who had not a tooth in her mouth, but was really skinny, back before I was even fat, just too visibly muscular for most guys’ tastes. She never exercised. I worked out like a demon on speed, but without speed. She took meth from time to time though. They always picked her.
So I know this isn’t really about beauty or willpower. All your favorite starlets and porn that you wank to is full of meth, Adderall, and Ritalin, and good old fashioned obsession and vomitting.
So don’t tell me about healthy when the women you wank to are sick.
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One more thing, Snark. I’m not a hypocrite. I’m doing what’s good for me because, as it has been all my life, my health is the priority over being slim. When I had to make a trade-off, I chose the fat over drug dependency. It was a good thing too, since when I had to go back to the U.S. for six months before I married my second husband, I wouldn’t have been able to afford the drugs, and didn’t have health insurance. So I’d have died in the street.
However, I don’t judge people particularly harshly for choosing the drug or surgery option. Having been a martial artist and weight lifter, I understood very well that there are almost no people with “perfect” bodies who don’t do drugs and haven’t had cosmetic surgery. Very few naturals exist.
Even I use herbs, which are truthfully just as strong and effective as anything conventional. I prefer my medicines with a longer history, same as my food. Most naturals are like me.
So you have to choose how you want it: skinny women by any means necessary, or a variety of women, some of whom won’t be to your taste. That’s really all this is about.
Now that there’s national health care, America’s going to look like Israel soon. I hope you didn’t think someone wasn’t going to make money from it. You’ll have more skinny women like here, but more women on drugs and getting surgery like here too…and they will feel entitled to it.
So American women are just going to get skinnier and even more entitled. You’ll see. It’ll become a shit hole as far as the dating market, just like here.
Women here got fatter for awhile due to American influence, but that is snapping back. Now, doctors are cleaning up offering bariatric surgery and drugs.
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Round and round it goes. The men argue with logic and the women argue with bullshit. Don’t you men realize that “female logic” is the ultimate oxymoron? You’re wasting key strokes on these women. They have no concept of personal accountability, cause and effect, men being able to think without their guidance, or that men are even worthwhile human beings, because that’s how society trains them. Yet you men continue feeding the trolls. Someone mentioned last week that when you allow women in, they hijack the agenda and the discourse. Just take a look at this thread from the beginning and notice how it’s been railroaded by female bullshit logic. And I’m one of the few to stand up against it. What a pathetic state of affairs. Men have never needed women to solve the big problems so why are we attempting it here? I say throw the trolls out!
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Nicole wrote:
I’m well aware of the Milgram experiment. Its an interesting thought experiment for me as to how I’d have reacted to it if I didn’t know what it was (obviously if you know what it entails, then you can’t take it anymore). I can’t see myself being able to flip those switches (hell, I prefer not to kill insects and spiders, but instead just take them out and put them back in the garden), and have always been remarkably anti-authoritarian even from before my teenage years, but you never know how you would act until you’re actually in the situation I guess.
You seem to want to equate calling a whale a whale with electrocuting people, and whilst I can understand that you see both things as being similar, they’re not. No amount of bullshit on your part makes it so.
Even more amusingly, you fail to understand constructive criticism – I refer here for example to your attempt at strawmanning my view that fat people are personally responsible for improving their lives to you claiming that I blamed deaf people for the things that made them deaf. That you can’t seem to see the difference in the two statements tells me that you’re not able to see constructive criticism for what it is.
Finally, I still don’t think you understand why I believe you are coming from a (possibly subconscious) female supremacist viewpoint. You have stated such things as ‘might is right’, ‘the majority makes might’, ‘your place in the status hierarchy’, the idea that as you got thinner you moved up in that hierarchy whilst people that mocked you didn’t, the underlying sense that you feel that your place in the hierarchy should not be dependent on your fatness (and this is also sooo unfaaaiiiirr), therefore the implication that the people that mocked you were always untermensch compared to you, your projection of no-fault onto all fat women in america, the conclusion of this that actually most of these women are higher up in the hierarchy than your so-called ‘fags’ etc.
Additionally, throughout your ranting here, you have never once extended your fat philosophy to fat men, despite repeated invitations to do so by numerous posters on this thread.
Thats why I conclude you are a feminist and a female supremacist.
Snark wrote:
Snark, it wasn’t just or even the taking responsibility thing. It was when Nicole made a throwaway comment about status hierarchies that all her other statements clicked into place for me.
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Of course, there is the issue of willpower. No one is denying that. That was not the point. The point is that there is too much foo d in America and too much in one’s face. Also, the food clearly has a specific consistency and ingredients that make it taste very different from European food. Even the icing on the cake is different. There is a completely different food culture out there. The food is too enticing, the portions are much too big and there are too many food joints. It must be a sign of wealth or something. It’s nice but it’s got side effects. This is just a part of a consumerist culture, there are other excesses too, not just food. What about porn? How come guys don’t have the willpower to get off porn and keep feeding themselves with unrealistic fantasies of what a female should look like?
People often put on weight when they get to the States and lose it when they come back, it’s an objective fact that the food culture is different in the States – why is it so hard to accept that? No, it’s not healthy and it shouldn’t be that way, and, yes, many women are incredibly fat. No, it’s not normal. People shouldn’t overeat and exercise should be a part of a lifestyle, that is an axiom. But there are clearly more factors at play here than just individual willpower.
And, yes, it is a class issue. Because the poor people can only afford hot dogs and processed microwave food and not the Whole foods food or sushi. Sure, they can buy vegetables and make a stew, but we all know that that’s just not part of the culture (and they wouldn’t be sated anyway). Better food in the city will always be more expensive. And, btw, the men pick unhealthier but tastier foods too – most American boys pick fast food over healthy food, not because they can’t afford the more healthy food but because the greasy food is just tastier. There is something in the American food that makes is so tasty.
Sure, a skinny girl on amphetamines will look hotter to you guys. So be it. Just don’t act like the fat women owe you something, they don’t.
Nicole is nothing like a feminist, she is actually very right wing and libertarian sounding.
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Oh, I forgot one very important aspect – the food is very cheap. And it is rather cheap to eat out instead of cooking at home.
And speaking of willpower.. maybe it’s not so much about willpower in this case, as motivation for women to be thin. They simply don’t seem to have any motivation. Partly, because it’s normal to be overweight (despite the the fact that the ideal woman is the skinny porn model with pasted on silicone breasts). So they don’t feel motivated to look thin for their men because they don’t need anything from them (even though I suspect that many American women have a low self esteem because of their weight/looks). Or, they probably get what they need/want from their men without being slim, there is little competition among women for men – however, this is the case in other Western countries too, yet women there are not as overweight as in the States. They probably don’t even need that much from men to begin with as they can get by perfectly on their own. Or, they see that relationships/marriages are so fleeting and men can leave anytime anyway, so there is no point in working hard for the man. Or, they maybe see that the men will prefer the unattainable porn models anyway so there is no point in trying to be sexy for the men because a normal woman can never be as sexy as a porn model.
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Ok Nicole. Somehow you did not get this from my previous post, so let me spell it out for you again:
POOR =/= FAT
Did you get it that time? If a person can afford enough food to be fat, then they can afford enough food to be thin. IT’S FUCKING OBVIOUS, NICOLE. NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN MORE OBVIOUS.
Obvious jealousy.
“Grrrr the men are such idiots for finding hot women attractive. Why don’t they find ME attractive!” >:-(
Can you spell ‘entitled’, Nicole?
More jealousy. You are bitter from years of knowing that no man is wanking to fantasies of you. It must hurt. I’ll give you that. But you’re still entitled.
MacArthur hath spoken. I am wasting no more time on fatties (Nicole) and dumb sluts (Skadi). I don’t pay the slightest bit of attention to fatties or sluts in real life, so why should I online? …
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Nicole, why are arguing with them? They could care less about what you have to say. This is a male only place in the e-world.
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She is here for male attention. She knows it. We know it. Now you know it, chic noir.
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Where does it say that it is “male only”? It is very public and very opinionated. Surely, the opinions here are not very descreet or hidden from women and the general public (including youngsters).
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There is plenty of male attention in real world. Plus, one can get male attention on normal forums, without being called names. Nobody needs your fuckin’ attention, Snark.
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Snark, first off, there is nothing pathological about a woman enjoying male attention, especially if she’s strong enough for a good debate.
However, it is difficult to have a good debate with feminized men.
Gunn, you failed because you may not have electrocuted anyone, but you did take the original post as a cue to inflict what you believe to be damaging psychological harm on others. Whether the intended harm is physical or psychological, it is harm. As a poster on a men’s rights blog, you should be aware of the effects of taunting people because of physical features.
You would defend a man who was being taunted for not being socially dominant…a behavioral leap that would require comparable effort to losing a considerable amount of weight. Were I to call such men dorks and dweebs, you would be all over it.
…but I don’t call such men dorks or dweebs because I understand that they can’t help how they were raised or their in born sensitivities. I may not want to date them, and I may believe that they should put some effort into learning game. I would not however, stoop to insulting them for not being my cup of tea or insisting that they are irresponsible or willfully lazy as opposed to badly programmed.
There is a difference between saying, “America has become a nation of wimps because of feminist indoctrination,” and saying, “American men are wimps.” Surely you understand the difference.
I resent that you are playing dumb here.
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Snark, on the jealousy thing, damned right I was jealous. It’s a natural emotion that I personally am unwilling to deny in order to socially lubricate this issue. However, I did have the perspective of living in Italy for three years, and understood that something really bizarre was happening in the U.S.
Because I went to high school on a military base, I had enough exposure to note the contrast even while I lived in Italy, but it wasn’t quite so stark because my dating pool on the base was soldiers. They tend to have a bit different mentality to civillians even though they are under real pressure to watch their weight. Thing is, in the military, it’s in the context of fitness.
As a fit girl, I got plenty of attention from guys in the military, but civillians seemed oblivious, except for the gym crowd and deep southern guys.
At the time I noticed the toothless crack hoe phenomenon, I was living in the D.C. area.
So my jealousy gave way to my default semi-misanthropy once I understood the game. I just accepted that American men generally don’t like truly fit women, just skinny ones. It isn’t so far from natural though since fitness is masculine, and guys nowhere are into masculine women. Outside of a military context, my fitness was perceived as masculinity because most of the men around were relatively feminine compared to soldiers.
So the nonsense made sense. It had nothing to do with health and everything to do with natural size differential preferences manipulated by media hype around being boyishly thin. The minds of American men were being exploited.
Now here, I’m actually having an argument with a bunch of guys trying to justify namecalling and other childish behavior directed at fat women that wouldn’t be directed towards people who are actually willfully lazy and irresponsible.
I find it intellectually lazy to promote taunting the misinformed rather than educating them. Taunting people will only herd them to the drugs and surgery while educating them would offer them other options.
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Very quick response because this is getting circular, but you’re wrong Nicole when you say that:
We have a difference of opinion: you see this as damaging psychological harm, whereas I think your attitude is ultimately more damaging. You enable these women not to take full personal responsibility by creating bogeymen who are to blame. This is far more harmful than getting them to accept that they need to change.
Rather than directly addressing this point (you have evaded this single point for over 100 posts in this thread) you continue to create strawmen and misdirections.
Your crap on the Milgram experiment is just another one of your feints that is again not backed up with any evidence other than your ‘feeeeeeeelllingss’
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And whilst I’m on this thread, this is another misrepresentation on your part:
I am not defending any men in my comments. I am actually stating that I think *your* attitude is one of superiority, not backed up by anything behind it. You don’t lead with this attitude, but it is apparent when you read between the lines at what you’re saying.
Go ahead and call them what you want; it doesn’t change the basics of this discussion, which are that
i. you don’t accept any accountability on the part of fat women to change their own lives
ii. you believe that women like yourself are superior to a huge number of men, and you resent that because you’re fat (or were fat) they don’t share your high opinion of yourself
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Gunn, my attitude is that “dorks” shouldn’t pick on “whales” because they are two sides of the same coin. I forget who said, “…the men and the women of any culture fully deserve each other.”
What causes you to feel that you are entitled to insult others who have done you personally no harm is the same thing that makes them feel that they are entitled to insult others who have done them personally no harm.
What causes you to feel that you are entitled to walk around not meeting what the male ideal income and social dominance to the best of your ability, is what causes them to feel that they are entitled to walk around not meeting what the female ideal physical form is to the best of their ability.
You don’t meet the standard. Neither do they. You belong together.
What you believe is wrong with my attitude is not what is wrong with my attitude. My patience with your lying about me repeatedly in a thread that all anyone needs to do is scroll back to see that you’re full of it, is wearing thin.
I only indulge you to prove a point in case anyone who is capable of thinking for themselves reads this thread in the future. You illustrate your own incapability to take personal responsibility for your actions or your behavior, and then condemn others for not being able to do so.
It is fascinating, but illogical.
I am not posting strawmen or moving goalposts. I am standing my ground that you have no place to attempt to socially engineer anyone into doing anything because you yourself are a victim of social engineering.
I am talking to a slave who doesn’t understand that he is doing exactly as he is programmed to: herding women to the bariatric sausage factory.
I don’t have a moral issue with anyone doing whatever body modification suits them. I just also don’t have a moral issue with anyone opting out. I don’t call people who opt out of taking drugs or getting surgery whales for it.
You do, and again, you are attempting to justify it with more mythology about “those people” being irresponsible and lazy.
I never claimed that they shouldn’t take responsibility.
I never claimed that being obese was okay.
All I’m saying is that for some people, it’s a lesser evil, and it is certainly a lesser evil than becoming a hypocrite who holds others to a higher measure than one does one’s self.
If that’s too harsh for you, then yes, my attitude may indeed be more “damaging” in that it probably hurts you more to be called out for your deceitfulness and hypocrisy than it hurts a fat women to be told (shocking news) that she’s fat and some boys won’t want to shag her.
It should.
Why? Because hurting yourself is less antisocial than hurting others. It is a worse “crime” than being fat.
So again, you take personal responsibility for acting like a cretin who hates civilization, and maybe one day you’ll reach a level where you can have some say in how the civilization is going.
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Gunn lies again, “i. you don’t accept any accountability on the part of fat women to change their own lives”
Since you want to lie and dick size…
I am the webmaster of a weight loss website promoting a method that actually works for the long term, and prepares people for the real day to day mission of improving their health.
You?
…call people “whales”.
“ii. you believe that women like yourself are superior to a huge number of men, and you resent that because you’re fat (or were fat) they don’t share your high opinion of yourself”
Why do you lie?
You know good and well that nothing about me is female supremacist. I, as an individual, am superior to crybabies who freak out and call people names because they don’t find them attractive.
Some women aren’t. Some bitter bitches run around talking about how there are no good men.
I’m only telling you the same thing I tell any other bitter bitch: if you weren’t so negative, you’d attract the positive.
As far as others’ opinions of me, even if I was a world recognized hottie in my youth, age comes to us all. It behooves a woman to consider that beauty is fleeting. This is one important thing my parents taught me when I was young.
So eventually, I’d have to learn to deal with not causing erections in every straight man I passed, and maybe learn to stand on my merits instead of my stilletto heels.
I don’t resent it. What I resent is people who can’t let me do that in peace…who think it’s their “right” to stand in my way. Those people, I have consistently worked around, moved, or crushed, all my life.
One day I may meet my match.
Today is not that day.
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Except that I haven’t in fact lied in any of my posts. I’ve simply stated that I think that saying that I find these women to be fat, and I believe that they can and should do something about it by taking personal responsibility. The language I may potentially use (whale) is not as nice as it could be for sure, but I haven’t represented that I’m a nice person.
but not the men eh? if you’re really acting on behalf of all fat people, why do your statements only address what is said to the women?
Now this is a lie. You have multiple posters on this thread making the point to you that even if you blame corporations, the food supply, the effects of the moon on tides or whatever for the fat epidemic, ultimately everyone needs to take responsibility for improving themselves. This is the first post I think where you don’t deny responsibility, and even then your statement is a negative admission rather than a positive statement to the effect that all these people are responsible for changing their own lives.
And I have repeatedly acknowledged this, and stated that I think you’ve done a good job of presenting the information. However, it doesn’t change the fact that you don’t want to place accountability for improving themselves on the people who are fat.
Except the statements you’ve made and the attitude of mind you seem to hold. I’ve explained why I think what I think, and that I believe it may be subconscious on your part, but its there.
I don’t give a shit about being your ‘match’. After close to 200 posts on this thread, during which time you’ve constantly evaded the central point raised against you, you finally seem to accept that there is a tiny element of responsibility that these fat people have for themselves. So I guess we’ve all learned something.
I’m now going to take Mac’s advice and leave this topic alone, because it does seem to be going round and round with your comments trying to provoke some kind of reaction which just isn’t going to happen.
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:: takes out her cyber scissors ::
Gunn lies some more, “Except that I haven’t in fact lied in any of my posts.”
You have repeatedly called me a female supremacist, and have attributed many other bad traits that I have not displayed but you have, to me.
So you’re either a liar, or nuts.
“I’ve simply stated that I think that saying that I find these women to be fat, and I believe that they can and should do something about it by taking personal responsibility.”
…and my position is that anyone who has gone on a diet, which the vast majority of women, not to mention fat women have, has taken personal responsibility for their fat. That they don’t always succeed in losing weight permanently is no indication of their level of responsibility, only their level of succes.
So you are conflating “doing something that actually achieves permanent weight loss” with “taking responsibility”. I am not. This is why we are arguing. You don’t speak the same English as the rest of the English speaking world, or you lie to others and yourself to attempt to justify your cretinous behavior. Take your pick.
“The language I may potentially use (whale)”
…the language you have used.
“is not as nice as it could be for sure, but I haven’t represented that I’m a nice person.”
You haven’t represented an honest or credible person either.
“but not the men eh?”
The original post is not about a male beauty contest, and you were not complaining that fat men were unattrative to you. The fat men can defend themselves if they believe you’re insulting them.
“if you’re really acting on behalf of all fat people, why do your statements only address what is said to the women?”
…because the original post is about fat women in a beauty pageant. Durr.
…but while we’re on the subject, though the obesity problem isn’t as bad for men as it is for women, you probably would be unwise to call them whales either. The consequences for this are more obvious than picking on people who are physically weaker than you though.
“Now this is a lie.”
No, this^ is a lie.
“You have multiple posters on this thread making the point to you that even if you blame corporations, the food supply, the effects of the moon on tides or whatever for the fat epidemic,”
For the epidemic, yes. The hype around it is corporate sponsored. The results are going to be corporate payouts. All you have to do is ask the right questions, like, “Who is profitting from this?”.
I don’t blame you for not asking the right questions. You have to be able to think of them to ask them.
“ultimately everyone needs to take responsibility for improving themselves.”
You first.
“This is the first post I think where you don’t deny responsibility, and even then your statement is a negative admission rather than a positive statement to the effect that all these people are responsible for changing their own lives.”
I would love to believe that all fat people are fat because they are independent thinkers who are in a collective backlash against feministic beauty ideals. Sadly, that is not the case.
If it were, I would say that these people should “take responsibility” (which we now understand that what you mean by it is “do something that results in permanent weight loss”, but I mean to “take responsibility” which specifically would mean in this case to “do their best with what they have”). As it is, they are not, as a group, fully responsible for getting fat in the first place. They are misinfomed, genetically fat, or mentally ill.
Some, like myself, are in transition, and have taken responsibility in all sane and insane translations of the phrase. Your calling me a whale is like me calling you a pretty hairbow. It accomplishes nothing but convincing me that you are a cretin.
About my website…”And I have repeatedly acknowledged this, and stated that I think you’ve done a good job of presenting the information. However, it doesn’t change the fact that you don’t want to place accountability for improving themselves on the people who are fat.”
That is what we girls call a “backhanded compliment”. It’s the type of thing bitter bitches say when someone is outclassing them but they don’t want to fully acknowledge it.
I have said all along, since my epiphany post, all through the site, here, and everywhere I’ve posted in depth on this subject that a person should do the best they can with what they have.
…but as usual, since it’s a looks thing, and that’s what’s most important to sheep, the best someone can do is somehow irresponsible.
You should really invest in a dictionary…or maybe stop lying. Ya think?
…and about female superemacy, he lies some more, “Except the statements you’ve made and the attitude of mind you seem to hold. I’ve explained why I think what I think, and that I believe it may be subconscious on your part, but its there.”
Really? Where is it. Please use exact quotes that don’t take a paranoid schizophrenic to extrapolate a feminist or female supremacist meaning from.
” I don’t give a shit about being your ‘match’.”
It’s a little late to feign indifference now.
“After close to 200 posts on this thread, during which time you’ve constantly evaded the central point raised against you,”
I made a freaking numbered list. Liar.
“you finally seem to accept that there is a tiny element of responsibility that these fat people have for themselves. So I guess we’ve all learned something.”
Pants on fire. You haven’t learned anything.
I have learned much about the depths some men will sink to when they’ve been niggerized and are too socially dependent to resist trying to put anyone beneath them.
You have earned my sincerest pity.
If it helps, I don’t really hold you responsible for being a tool. It’s in the genes.
“I’m now going to take Mac’s advice and leave this topic alone, because it does seem to be going round and round with your comments trying to provoke some kind of reaction which just isn’t going to happen.”
You gave exactly the reaction I expected you to. I kind of hoped for better, your being male and all, but I’m familiar with this feeling of disappointment and pity.
I do hope that someday you climb out of this. I believe, from the research and history, that the vast majority of men have “alpha” abilities by virtue of being male. Something about having a Y chromosome and much more testosterone than even the most butch of bull dykes, and maybe some things science doesn’t know about yet, makes men naturally able to step up when they need to.
Until you wake up though, nothing personal, but when the mood strikes me and I’m bored, I’m gonna speak up when I notice some guy proposing getting into catfights and telling guys not to have sex. That’s what feminists are trying to do…make you all petty manginas who run whichever way they prod.
When it all comes down to it, my way is better and your way sux. My way will result in more beautiful women, and your way will result in more merely skinny women with manjaws and scars across their bellies.
My way gets women more in touch with nature, including their own. It makes their figures more feminine and yet strong in the ways that a woman should be. It keeps their estrogen levels optimal for longer, and women who used to be pretty butch are telling me they now cry in movies or when they hear something sad.
Your way will make women lose touch with their nature, become more hostile, and they will have yet another subconscious barrier to achieving a feminine figure, not to speak of a feminine size differential.
My way has made me a better woman. Your way just makes me sad for the west.
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Nicole admits the reason why she’s here … sigh.
Nicole it’s really very simple.
A woman is either there to debate, or she’s there to get male attention.
One. Not both.
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Nicole, this is an example of the correct weight for a female.
http://www.starpulse.com/Actresses/Seyfried,_Amanda/gallery/LRS-007514/
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Snark, you don’t get to decide why I come here. I do.
I usually come here to read the articles. Occasionally I’ll link to one from one of my blogs or in my facebook. Some of the young men who think of me as their aunt from another grandmother are among my fb-friends.
Sometimes, when I see a conversation I’d like to get into, or some stupidity that needs seen to, I’ll post. Since I don’t always have the patience, and prefer to save my steam for topics I’m knowledgeable in, I’ll pop up from time to time in a fat post.
…and sometimes I won’t. Some days I just don’t feel like having to show grown men how to pee standing up.
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…and Avenger, you don’t get to decide what the correct weight for a female is. Nature does. If health and fertility isn’t suffering for it, she’s fine.
That’s going to vary across ethnicities, environments, and to some degree, individuals.
In a country wherein people aren’t starving, and women don’t have male protectors, the size differential is going to close. If you don’t like it, look after your female relatives, so they don’t have to worry about being vulnerable.
Otherwise, unconsciously, even when they work out, they’ll be working for strength and muscularity rather than slenderness.
Because of my muscularity, I will never get below 140 lbs. I’ll be technically overweight all my life. I won’t be fat forever, but I will always be big for a girl. I don’t feel good unless I am lifting heavy objects, and I can’t honestly tell you how much of that is because of my natural tendencies and how much is trauma from being bullied by undermothered dickweeds as a kid.
If your female relatives are bullied, especially by boys whose mothers were bitches to them and take it out on girls at school, the cycle continues.
If you want small women, be big men.
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Most male attention is unwanted anyway.
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And it is entirely true that it will not be men, but Nature that will decide the right weight of a woman.
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Nicole-
While I don’t necessarily agree with everything Gunn’s saying, throwing out “liar” epithets the way you did is a weak debating tactic and does nothing for your credibility. If someone disagrees with you or makes a dissertion you agree with, they’re not a liar. We could likewise try to call you a liar and invalidate all of your arguments by citing earlier in the thread where you were calling guys fags.
Here’s the problem- there really ARE victims in Western society, but so many people co-opt the victim mentality that they get lost in the mix. I don’t think many men here will disagree that big agra, big pharma, and big meat and whoever else are the puppeteers of the obesity epidemic here. We’re just pissed to see the puppets dance so willingly.
The individualism and cries for self-acceptance that we see (as a result of post modernist thought) have given way to to disgusting laziness, poor impulse control, and instant gratification. That’s what our culture has come to. This is the part of obesity (and Western women) that men are so disdainful of. Men do engage in this behavior too, but I think feminism’s influence has led to it being much more prevalent in women. It’s all MEMEME and NOW, going with what “feels right”. That’s why self-acceptance movements, while intended to bring people back to the world, are dangerous: they encourage people to ignore their faults and continue acting irresponsibly. While we’d all like to be able to use positive reinforcement to inspire women to lose weight, it’s hard to do that when there’s such a strong movement to vilify and shame any man that suggests the concept to an overweight woman.
Men have a vested interest in the whole thing – we aren’t attracted to fat women (as a norm). We WANT y’all to be hot. I’m sure many guys share my frustration when we see a girl who’d be a smokeshow if she wasn’t 30-40lbs overweight. You might try to invoke the, “well we’re not here to bend to YOUR preferences!” argument, but let’s be serious, that’s the mating game. Both sexes want to be attractive, it’s hardwired. The higher percentage of women that are overweight, the less attractive women and more competition there is for us in the dating pool.
Comparing fat women to feminized/indoctrinated men doesn’t work. 1) feminized men aren’t physically unhealthy, 2) there’s actually nothing socially *wrong* with these men and you’ll find that many of them/us are quite well-adjusted, successful, and social in real life. The biggest problem I have with the alpha/beta dichotomy is women now becoming aware of it and labeling any guy that complains or any guy they’re not attracted to a beta, which is crap. Finally, we actually do expect these men to take responsibility for their situation. We give them time to go through the stages to accept the fact…just sitting and whining about what society has done to them isn’t enough.
You have a very condescending arrogant tone in some of your posts (especially early on in this thread). That’s why you’ve been attacked. You immediately assumed you’re higher status than people here, that you’re enlightened just because you’ve suffered. I have a feeling that’s more of a coping mechanism than anything else. You act tough and raise yourself above others to compensate for past hurt, rejection, and feelings of inferiority. Unfortunately you sound like many of the bitter betas we see in the manosphere.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the obesity epidemic.
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“dissertion you agree with” Should be assertion you disagree with…it’s early.
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…and Avenger, you don’t get to decide what the correct weight for a female is. Nature does. If health and fertility isn’t suffering for it, she’s fine.
Men decide on what is sexually attrative and I can assure you that it is not fat or looking like a muscular Wooki.
Or is it looking like you who resembles that fat girl in Precious
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I posted that pic of Amanda Seyfried because although she normal weight or even on the slimmer side you can see from her full tits that she is perfectly healthy.
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Laziness and poor impulse control? Men suffer from this too. We see it all the time.
Self-acceptance movements are not dangerous but necessary for women – because women are devalued on every step with unrealistic, schizophrenic demands. Whatever you do as a woman or however you look – it will never be enough! You will never be good enough. The best thing is to just ignore it and live your life for yourself, not the ridiculous demands of men.
Sure, you want all of us to be “hot” (I’m starting to really hate that word). It’s not harmful to want something. We all dream about stuff. You can keep dreaming. But you are in no position to demand anything of us. The more you treat us like a piece of meat and a sex object, the more we will protest. You have not done anything for us to be hot for you. You are nothing for us – not our husband or our sponsor. You are just a man on the street who we owe NOTHING to. You are in no position to demand any hotness from me, unless you yourself are a young, handsome hunk and I want you. Which most of you aren’t. If you supported women financially, then you would be in a position to demand something. But the way it is now, women don’t owe you anything. It’s like me asking that all men in the dating pool were hot, with well trained bodies, nice hair and below 35 OR that every single man I date or sleep with support me financially. You want women to be hot, thin and feminine, yet you yourself do not act like a man – you do not support the women financially, women have to make their own living. You want your cake and eat it too. Well, you’re not getting it (because most of you don’t even deserve it).
Women are not here to put out a “smokeshow” for you. You’ve got your FHM and porn for that. Isn’t that enough?
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Sox, I’m not going to not call someone a liar who lies about me.
I’m not going to call someone smart who believes the lies and argues with me as if I’m the imaginary person the liar made up either.
You’ll have to rethink and then rewrite your entire post for me to be able to know if we actually disagree on anything important.
There is one thing I can pick out of it that you’re definitely wrong about. If you don’t think needing to physically defend one’s self has any effect on one’s size, or feeling like one does, such as will happen in a rape paranoid culture, you don’t know how gene expression or Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
The need for safety is much more pressing than the need for esteem. That goes for you too, Avenger.
Please don’t make the same mistakes feminists do, and believe that your ideals or ideas of the ideal make any difference in raw nature.
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“Comparing fat women to feminized/indoctrinated men doesn’t work. 1) feminized men aren’t physically unhealthy 2) there’s actually nothing socially *wrong* with these men and you’ll find that many of them/us are quite well-adjusted, successful, and social in real life.”
Yes, it does, it’s a valid comparison. Nothing against feminized men, but when you lament over fat women, it is not primarily their health that you are concerned about but their (lack of) beauty – the woman’s aesthetic value which you expect to cater and live up to your wishes. A fat woman does not have sexual value for you. Likewise, a so called “feminized” man may not have sexual value for some women – because many women prefer strong, masculine, assertive men who will protect them and support them financially. Thus, more mellow men or men who do not provide are the equivalent of a fat woman. This has nothing to do with health but with sexual “market value”. If you want women to be “hot” and glamorous, pay up. That’s how it has always worked.
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”However, it seems that these women’s desire to be celebrated matters more than a national crisis that is seeing children develop type II diabetes, and adults die prematurely from weight-related diseases.”
Exactly. This accurately generalises females today, ‘we’ll do what ever we want, whatever the cost, even our own children”. Viva la emancipation eh girls.
”I suppose fat women are an easier target than the food and pharmeceutical industries.”
@Nicole:What a crock of shit. No one pours the calories down peoples necks but themselves. Eat less do more=weight loss, it’s not brain surgery. Sorry guys this means you too if you fit the obese bracket, straight talking is healthier for you than bullshit political correctness. Stop being female and accept responsibility instead of looking for someone or something else to blame.
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”However, it seems that these women’s desire to be celebrated matters more than a national crisis that is seeing children develop type II diabetes, and adults die prematurely from weight-related diseases.”
This is another way in which women can be accurately generalised in their need to do as they please, whatever the cost, even their own children.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
”I suppose fat women are an easier target than the food and pharmeceutical industries.”
@Nicole: What a crock of shit. No body pours calories down some ones neck but themselves. Do more, eat less=weight loss, it’s not brain surgery. Sorry guys this includes you too if you fit into the obese bracket. Stop being female and accept responsibility instead of looking around for some one or something else to blame.
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@Mac: I see your point.
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Surprise – the talk turns to fat American women and Nicole is all over it like flies on shit. Same thing happened for the article on BMI standards for women – she had 64 comments in that single thread. Seems to have struck a nerve?
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The truth is, topics about fat women are always “sensitive” and popular and generate a lot of comments. Because they have to do with slightly more than just women’s looks, in fact…
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Well thank God you’re back Skadi. It’s a real fucking pleasure.
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* So don’t even be seen anywhere in the vacinity of fat girls. In fact, I would advise not even answering them on a blog.
Fat Spreads
You know how it’s usually said that fat doesn’t spread – that is, you can’t “catch” it? Well, you can’t – but a new study suggests that you can catch some of the negative stereotypes of being fat without actually being fat! All you need to do, if you’re thin, is be with a fat person.
The English experiment involved two photographs: one of a man with a thin woman, and another with the same man and a “very large” woman (the article is quick to note she is also well-dressed.) The results? Ugh:
The man with the big woman was rated 22 percent more negatively than the same man with the thin companion. When seen with the large woman, he was more likely to be described as miserable, self-indulgent, passive, shapeless, depressed, weak, insignificant and insecure.
Impressive, eh? And what’s more is that the majority of these negative comments came from people who deemed themselves overweight.
Things like this only reinforce the importance of fat acceptance, for me. The people who rated the man as “shapeless” can’t be enjoying a high self-esteem. Why? Well, in part due to studies like this one. And insofar as the man in the picture goes, the proper adjective for either picture is a far cry from “insignificant”.
http://www.bigfatblog.com/node/512
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Of course the person who wrote that blog thinks there should be fat acceptance lol
It’s funny but it is probably the fatties who had the biggest negative impression of the guy with the fat girl and I’d bet, knowing how superficial females are that most of them were female. So he ones who had the biggest negative impression were the same fatties who want you to accept them.
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So Avenger, let me get this straight. Your position is that I must be wrong because my views are unpopular?
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”If you supported women financially, then you would be in a position to demand something”
Thanks skadi, glad to see ‘gender equality’ means you can now support yourself. When in fact all you actually mean is ‘pay up sucker’ if you want the goods.
From the bait (cunny) to the traps sprung (children), right skadi? That’s how it works even today in our ‘gender equal’ society. Women are just more blatantly greedy. Glad you clarified what we men need to do if we want some.
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:: snip snip ::
* So don’t even be seen anywhere in the vacinity of nerdy guys. In fact, I would advise not even answering them on a blog.
Nerdiness Spreads
You know how it’s usually said that nerdiness doesn’t spread – that is, you can’t “catch” it? Well, you can’t – but a new study suggests that you can catch some of the negative stereotypes of being extremely nerdy without actually having true Asperger’s syndrome! All you need to do, if you’re popular, is be with a nerd.
The English experiment involved two photographs: one of a woman with a tall, muscular, and engaging man, and another with the same woman and a quiet, soft, stand-offish man with “very large” glasses (the article is quick to note he is also clean and neatly-dressed.) The results? Ugh:
The woman with the nerdy guy was rated 22 percent more negatively than the same man with the handsome and engaging companion. When seen with the ‘sperg, she was more likely to be described as miserable, self-indulgent, passive, fat, depressed, bitchy, whorish, and insecure.
Impressive, eh? And what’s more is that the majority of these negative comments came from people who deemed themselves nerdy.
Things like this only reinforce the importance of parental involvement in education, for me. The people who rated the woman as “fat” can’t be enjoying a high self-esteem. Why? Well, in part due to studies like this one. And insofar as the man in the picture goes, the proper adjective for either picture is a far cry from “insignificant”.
Hehehehehe…
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Harryto, you missed my point. I simply said that if men want women to be hot and glamorized and for the women to try to imitate the men’s beloved porno models, then in that case the men should pay up. I think the real gender equality is the natural look and each makes their own money. As I already said, we don’t owe you anything. Women are not greedy, men are when they expect women to put out without courting.
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Harrytoo says, “Glad you clarified what we men need to do if we want some.”
Others, I can’t speak for, but I personally have no problems with prostitution.
If the important thing is that a woman be very skinny, regardless of what she has been through in her life, or character, or any other considerations, then prostitution is an excellent way to get your needs met.
No need to be frustrated that the women in the marriage or dating market don’t look like optimal hoes.
I consider a guy who buys time with prostitutes to be much more honest with himself than a guy who demands that a woman he’s going to be in a long term relationship, be able to compete in the sexual-only market with prostitutes and the like for her whole life.
Granted, the competition is going to be there, but hoes don’t care if you’re married as much as a wife might care that you’re shagging hoes. Women should understand that there are trade-offs too, but that’s another issue for another topic.
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@skadi: If that’s what you meant, that’s what you should have said, you didn’t.
@nicole: Stop blaming men and look more to the crass magazines you all love to read, they bare most of the responsibility, the rest is just the female mind. As for obesity, in either gender it’s not a good look, nor healthy and certainly not good for a nations bank balance. Perhaps we’d be better in dumping female thinking and wrapping an apathetic blanket round everything and use common sense again. Never used a whore btw, or had an std, always been very particular where I stick mine. Not that it’s a topic for here.
http://www.misandryreview.com/rebuking-feminism/2010/08/06/list-of-male-grievances-and-injustices/
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Nicole: the only problem with your stupid analogy comparing fat girls to nerdy guys is that the nerdy guys (like Bill Gates) usually have brains and that = $$$$$
Females are drawn to this like a rat to cheese.
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This is getting really old.
Harry, I’m not blaming men in particular for anything. I’m saying that American men and women deserve each other. Both are overly entitled princesses who think they deserve maximum reward for minimum effort, and consistently worry about the wrong thing.
They’re being polluted to death, economically ass raped, culturally flatlined, and guys are worried about women being too fat, and women are worried about guys not liking them because they’re too fat.
Both are squirming in the bottleneck for things they don’t need and wouldn’t know what to do if they got them.
Everybody’s programmed to want the same thing, and if they don’t get what they want ***RIGHT NOW*** someone’s got to pay.
This is exactly why I’m in no hurry to get back “home”. The land where I and a good chunk of my ancestors were born has been taken over by crybabies who, were they not so plentiful, would be comical.
You can’t see how dumb arguing for the privilege of abusing people who’ve done nothing personally wrong to you is because you were raised to be worms who do nothing but consume, excrete, and cry when you can’t consume as much as you want.
The fatness of every American woman who is not so strictly due to genetics (like field worker genes) is merely a reflection of your own greed.
I consider it poetically ironic justice, considering the pollution could have had a different effect and made it harder to gain a healthy amount of weight. As it is, estrogenic compounds do the opposite.
Still, since the magic pill’s patent is going to disappear next November, and there’s now national healthcare, which you can be sure will help push it further into the market, and will cover bariatric and other weight loss surgeries, the obesity problem will be over.
I suppose then you’ll be happier to march yourselves off the coming cliff. You’ll be more dependent on the infrastructure to fill your ego’s proverbial belly, and more open to whatever other crap they sell you.
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Nicole probably thinks that men salvinate over these girls lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXudUM0vKSc&feature=related
Yeah, it’s raining men (You wish!) haha
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*salivate
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Avenger, I don’t know what planet you live on, but were I working for someone other than myself, my starting salary would be about $35K/year.
Most nerds are not making big money. They’re making okay, stable money, but not millions.
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So Avenger, you’re going to resort to lying too?
…after I’ve explained that size differential is an important feature of attraction, but that feminists have veered it towards the boyish look rather than the nubile feminine look, you’re going to accuse me of trying to claim that men are generally attracted to obese women?
I’m thinking of a Nietzsche quote right now. Can you guess which one it is?
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Nicole-where I’m from 35k is a weekly salary.
You’re not working because you’re either too fat or unqualified for anything.
Try finding any top female executive who is fat. And don’t include a couple of freak exceptions in entertaining like Oprah or Rosie. because they both cater to the fat fugly housewife or loser females who don’t work.
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Marks for effort rather than achievement… the reason why schooling today produces idiots.
I used to smoke. I decided to stop smoking. I stopped smoking. That was 4 years ago.
If I had decided to stop smoking but was still smoking today, then I would not expect people to say ‘well done for sorting out your health with regards to cigarettes’.
If you don’t deliver on what you set out to do, then you can’t take credit for what you set out to do. Responsibility implies that you see it through; if you don’t have the willpower to see it through, then you can’t argue you’re being responsible.
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Gunn, you don’t get to decide what the word “responsible” means. It’s been established and in use in the English language for quite some time now, and if you don’t like the meaning, write Webster’s. Don’t try to fill my head with your b.s. extrapolations.
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Nicole writes, ‘and there’s now national healthcare, which you can be sure will help push it further into the market, and will cover bariatric and other weight loss surgeries, the obesity problem will be over’
The Obama nonsense will be reversed with the new congress.
Obesity is almost all genetic, ven if some magic drug made you a normal weight it would not effect offspring. It ‘s like females who get nosejobs and then have kids with giant noses lol
And I doubt that anyone intentionally bred “field hand genes”. It wouldn’t be necessary because the African slaves taken to the New World were from the west coast of Africa where the people are naturally big boned. You would also have the problem of feeding them if they were big eaters. In fact, they did have this problem which was why Cap. Bligh was bringing breadfruit to Jamaica to grow there. Bananas from the area were a lot more expensive.
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Avenger fantasizes, “You’re not working because you’re either too fat or unqualified for anything.”
Just for that, I’m going to let you fantasize so people who know better can have a good laugh.
Anywho…$35K per week is not most nerds are making. If “where you’re from” that’s true, then you’re not in America. You’re in Kuwait or the U.A.E. where a few guys’ dads have them contracting or employed on paper, so they can get a $35K per week allowance.
I knew an aircraft engineer who made $20K per month, but he was working in some special capacity. Most high level engineers I know make around $50K per year. Depends who they’re working for, and for how long and in what position. Nuclear physicists I know generally make around $75K per year.
We’re still not talking about millions.
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Engineers generally make shit money relative to their skills. However, this is not true for software engineers (who can easily make $3-4k per week on a contracting basis) once they get a bit of experience behind them. Also, any ‘nerd’ who goes into finance would expect to make multiples of the numbers you quoted.
Whilst I think $35k per week is hyperbole, $35k per month is probably a realistic high end target to aim for if you’re a bright guy in his 40s with good experience in an in-demand field.
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Gunn, please learn to read English.
MOST nerds are not making big money. MOST are just making decent money, but not MILLIONS of dollars.
Do you understand?
Do I have to reduce it to kindergarten level for you? It’s starting to seem that way.
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Nicole, you would have to be living in some Podunk type place to be able to survive on $35k a yr. And even that’s assuming you own outright a house and car and don’t have to make any payments.
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Now, since I understand that we’re not going to get any real discussion of the entitlement problem in the U.S. I’m going to take the initiative and list other pageants that are probably indicative of the same kind of entitlement.
Americans want to make the deviant normal, and use pageants as a way of spreading propaganda to shift public opinion about aesthetics and acceptable behavior and dress for women. So without further ado, I present to you, the freak show.
(Mind you, I don’t have problems with anyone’s being disabled or different. What I have a problem with is socially engineered preference manipulation too far away from the natural.)
Ms. Senior America, celebrating the cougar look rather than the dignified older lady look.
http://www.senioramerica.org/
Ms. Wheelchair America, not so bad in and of itself, but note that there is no Miss Limited Mobility America for women with cerebral palsy or who’ve been in disasterd or car accidents and must now use prosthetic limbs or walk with crutches. Lurching is apparently not as good propaganda as rolling.
http://www.mswheelchairamerica.org/
(Note the “Ms.” in both of these.)
MRS. America, someone else’s wife in a bathing suit and skimpy dresses.
http://www.mrsamerica.com/
We won’t even get into what a joke the regular old Miss America and USA pageants are. It’s like one long Adderall ad.
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Avenger, actually, I live in Israel, where the cost of living is a bit higher than what it is in most places in the U.S.
If one were to add up our expenses, we could live just fine on that, as a family of 3, because we’re not overconsuming idiots.
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Guys,
Be thankful that you aren’t listening to Nicole face to face:
http://www.photodom.com/photo/386691
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Avenger, on the genetically fat thing though, whether or not Obamacare stays, insurance companies are already covering some people’s weight loss surgeries and drugs. It doesn’t matter to the people profitting from this that some people are heavier due to genetics. Fat people want to lose weight, and women want to be very thin across the board. Even most who are normal or just technically overweight want to lose even more.
American women want to be size 4′s like the ones on television, and they are going to be that as soon as the drugs and surgeries are affordable for them. Brace yourself.
The average dress size for American women in the 1950′s was a size 8. This was also the average size of models back then.
So on natural food, a healthy woman’s usually going to hover around that weight, which, compared to the actess you showed as healthy, is a pig.
Like I said, nature decides. When man decides, he always thinks he knows better than nature.
You’ll see.
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Nicole- a size 4 today is like a 12 from the 1960′s. And btw, I’ve seen the results of many of these various operations to force people to lose weight. I won’t go through all of the procedures but although people will lose weigh they never seem to get slim. Yes, there’s an improvement but they certainly never look like a normal slim person. And then you have the excess skin that’s been stretched beyond it’s endurance for years. That has to be taken care of and all of these procedures leave scars especially on certain races where the scars cause keloids. I’m afraid that Nicole’s wishful thinking and science fiction fantasies have got the better of her. I guess it never occurs to her that this major surgery can cause problems both from the surgery and the effects of having your intestines resectioned or stomach stapled not to mention infections, bleeding etc There are no known drugs that will permanently keep the fat off you either. Losing a lot of weight because you were taking Methadrine only means that you will quickly regain it plus some additional weight. If you’re intended by Nature to be fat than you will always be fat. You may be able to keep on a low calorie diet for life but you’ll still always be somewhat fat instead of extremely fat. There’s also nothing you can do about your bone structure or the distribution of fat. Some females lose weight and it just makes the fat on their arse and thighs look worse.If you’re fat then you’re pretty much fucked and you’ll most likely end up with some Gamma male loser(if that) There are very few fat upper class people but we do have some nouveau riche entertainers like Oprah and Rosie. Now, don’t you think if there was some medical procedure or drug that they would have it with all their money?
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And Nicole, you couldn’t even live in Haarlem on $35k a year. It’ll have to be Podunk for you.
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Avenger…I don’t really get what the 35k argument is all about. People in my field are expected to start around 35k, and I live in DC, one of the most expensive cities in the country.
Nicole, you already admitted that personal responsibility for one’s health and weight is necessary…why the hell are you still here? Because that’s not the whole story? Fine, we agree. The second you admit that there’s a dearth of personal responsibility, you can’t credibly shame us on our main point. Or is it just because we’re being too mean about it?
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I actually think my “demands” are pretty realistic, and that I shouldn’t have to be financially supporting a woman to ask her to be feminine and fit. Key word: ASK. If she doesn’t comply? Then fine, I’m gone.
You two are acting like we expect every woman to have pornstar-looks. No, we want them to be healthy and fit (in order for us to desire them as a group). Yell “we don’t owe you jack!” all you want, but that’s ignoring the fact that most women WANT to be desired by a man they find desirable.
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If men only care about the looks and about women being slim and feminine, then they should really just get an escort.
Sox, what I meant was that it is not worth trying to live up to those demands unless that particular man you’re interested in is hot himself and has other good qualities (and in the end that is only short term anyway because you will age anyway and be worthless to him so why even bother). The sexier you are, the sexier your partner, no doubt about that. The issue here was that men who we don’t even care about or who are total strangers to us and to whom we owe nothing, expect us to be a certain way and even compare us to their FHM models.
If we as women support ourselves entirely, then there is no incentive to be feminine for the guy unless he is also sexy, nice, kind, fun to be around, considerate, etc. etc. Those are other qualities, not masculinity.
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Are most men in all age groups healthy and fit?
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How exactly does the size difference betwen men and women close? Testosterone and human growth hormone and male genes synergise together to create growth in men. Women can not grow to be the same size as men, estrogen closes the growth plates when girls hit puberty. Women can more easily build fat than muscle, men can more easily build muscle than fat. The size difference is due to evolution. Men and women are built for certain duties and behaviours that doesn’t change because of deluded “empowered” women who don’t need men.
Men have been suporting women through taxes for years you stupid shit. Not to mention all of the things men regulary invent and develop that women are quite happy to take advanatage of.
Women should go build their own countries. If women don’t owe men anything stop taking advantage of the civilisation men have built. Women are guests in any country women live on this planet, if the guest doesn’t like it they can always leave.
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Trust me, I would gladly leave in order to not be around men like you.
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Avenger…I don’t really get what the 35k argument is all about. People in my field are expected to start around 35k, and I live in DC, one of the most expensive cities in the country
Then you must live in some little room somewhere like a pauper because there is no major city on earth, even in poor countries, where you can survive at a decent level if you make less than $150k.
$35k couldn’t even pay the rent in NYC , London or Moscow etc If there are poor or unemployed people living in these places it’s because they pay 0 rent and are on benefits or they have a rent subsidy or thy inherited a rent controlled flat where they’re paying 10% of its real market rent.
And the only reason that I responded to the jobless unemployed fat girl Nicole is because she said that IF she could get a job she’d be earning $35k. I guess that Nicole doesn’t figure she’d have to also pay income tax, SS and all the other crap taxes on that salary either. I also said that where I live, not Podunk. Martha Stewart lives down the road and it appears that Bubba is now moving in (there goes the neighbourhood) But I really don’t believe you could even live in Podunk on $35k (probably like $25k after taxes etc) unless you are single with no real expenses AND already own a number of things like a house,car etc
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Nicole, I find your attitude to to be condescending on many levels. Who are you do decide how people should eat and how the obesity problem should be solved? If you read “Thin for Life” by Anne M. Fletcher, you will find that there are probably many more people than we have been led to believe who have found a way to lose weight and keep it off.
Like quitting smoking, it usually takes a few (or many) tries before you find a method that works for you. For me and many others, it is calorie counting. I don’t care for the paleo diet or any other restrictive diet. I eat what I like, within moderation.
Good, that you found a way that works for you but it is not your personal responsibility to save the world from obesity, for goodness sake.
Anyway, the point of this short but brilliant article has been largely (oops) missed. Why have a “beauty” contest for obese women at all? Obesity isn’t healthy and it isn’t generally considered beautiful.
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OH Christ, Skadi is here too, goin on about shallowness in men still, when she’s as shallow as they come. Twit
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Avenger, vanity sizing didn’t get out of control until 2000, and the statisticians are aware of vanity sizing. The statistics that state the averages from 1950 to today are accurate, as they are based on standard dress sizes, which have not changed.
The average waist size back then, if I’m remembering correctly, was 26-27.5 inches. That’s the waist measurement of standard size 8 pants.
Today, that would be around a 14 “juniors”, an 8 “misses”, and a 0 “women’s”.
Women today also average 2 inches taller than then.
About surgery and drugs, they work. They work for the vast majority of actresses, actors, and other entertainers. They work for athletes. They will work just as well for the masses. Oprah and Rosie are two anomalies who, I believe, are being paid to stay relatively fat. Oprah goes on these weight loss waves as a way of boosting ratings and showing sympathy for others who are struggling with their weight. Neither her nor Rosie want to be known to be on drugs or getting surgery.
I can’t say for sure, but from some weird things I’ve noticed, I think Oprah pads. I don’t have evidence, but watch her, or if you can’t stand to, have a fat fetishist friend watch a few of her recent shows. Her flesh doesn’t seem to move right, and some days she literally looks fatter than others.
She did a show when she went to some carnival or something, and looked slimmer than she did on the show in one of the scenes. It didn’t seem to be because of how she was dressed. It’s just weird.
As far as my ending up with a gamma loser, well…that depends who you classify as gamma. If I were to describe the guys who are usually interested in me, like the $35K thing, you’d probably just tell me that they’re losers no matter what they do by virtue of their liking me.
So, if the definition of gamma loser for you is any guy who is interested in a fat chick, then yes, you’re right. What is not clear though, is whether your choices of mates will turn out to be better than me in the long term, or merely slimmer.
Go live in some really busted place, and pretend you’re making only $40k per year, and see if you can get one to leave her own thriving business in say, Germany, behind for the love of you.
If you can be nearly broke and score a hottie who would come across the world and be broke right along with you in a place where starting up her business again would be a real struggle, then I’ll buy you a beer if you’re ever in Haifa, and won’t even ask you to be seen with me. I’ll even go as far as to not tell the barman that you didn’t want to be seen with me because statistically you think it’ll make you look bad, so as to spare you the speeches about how wonderful I am.
…and Avenger, I said if I worked for someone other than myself, I’d be making $35K per year. Many people do survive on that. Those are people who don’t always have to have the newest or most prestigious branded things they see on television.
I run my own businesses so that I can see to my daughter before she goes to school, and be home when she gets home. So your saying “unemployed” like it’s an insult is kind of…silly. If you want women who actually raise their own children, then you have to learn to be okay with their being “unemployed”.
…but then I suppose you don’t care if your woman has the nurturing capacity of a snake, so long as she’s skinny.
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Nicole, you talking to me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKkMkodo4MI
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Avenger, yes. I’m talking to you.
Despite our disagreements, I wish you and the rest of the guys here all the best.
Not many western men are willing to face the truth about gender politics. When I’m fussing here, it’s to wake guys up to how they’re being set up for a fall.
Sure, I’d love it if fatness was normalized, in some ways. It would make it easier for me to delude myself that I was less of a freak. However, in the ways that count, I can’t in good conscious, stand by for yet another wave of aesthetics manipulation.
You’re being shown way too young to be fat girls as icons of new beauty for the same reason you’ve been being sold way too old to still be bony women as icons of new beauty in the late 60′s and 70′s. Someone is making money from socially fiddling with your primal wiring. It’s not that they (media and government) expect you to start liking really fat girls. They don’t want you to notice that girls in general have gotten not just fatter, but taller, more muscular, and overall beefier…more masculine.
I want you guys to see the hype for what it is. I want you to fight it. I want you to find women who either don’t believe it, or are open to correction. Whatever they look like, I want you all to find women who will love you more than their own life.
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Dang, it’s too hot to type. That “conscious” should be “conscience”.
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Men are not influenced by hype or the media, the way females are ,when they prefer a certain female body type. This is pure hardwiring and instinct. Fat females are simply not desirable by most men outside the loser omega chubby chasers who can’t get anything else. And stop trying to go to the opposite extreme and saying that men were conditioned by the media to think a bag of bones is hot because it just isn’t so. A good looking woman to a man is usually full figured like the models in Playboy who are slim but have natural full tits. About 5’7′ and 115 lbs. not skeletons. And btw, a female’s personality is just part of her general look. I’ve found that the better looking the girl the better her personality. It’s the fugly girls who have the worst personality and are the most demanding. All of my women are good looking and have advanced degrees (even at age 20-21)and in fact I don’t even talk to 99% of the females. They’re also smart enough to know that between men and women it’s mostly sex so if I ask one over or go to her place she’s know it’s for one reason. And btw, they are all very polite unlike the typical US female and when they leave thank me for shagging them.
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“Once again, my county is an embarrassment around the globe. If we are a “world power”, then the people need to look good; instead, angry muslim extremists just see us as fat and decadent and this just fuels their rage.”
The above quote just goes to show the level of ignorance that some people have, there are Muslim countries where they send young women to put on pounds and by the way Muslims are as decadent as anybody else when they get the chance. Take your head out of a hole.
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