Game has made a big splash in the man-o-sphere in recent times. And of late I have begun writing on the subject myself, to one degree or another.
As a primer to the uninitiated, Game is ostensibly the tactics and methods of scoring with women while placing yourself in the alpha position among other males. I offer that definition simply from extrapolating what I have read on the subject, and as I have never found a concise definition from its main proponents.
On a slightly deeper level, Game purports to differ itself from Pick Up Artistry (PUA) in that it stems from an enhanced cognizance of human female sociobiology, and uses that knowledge to manipulate women into bed.
I have to admit that I have been frequently stuck when trying to sort this thing out. Exploring the implications of Game in juxtaposition to my beliefs as a men’s advocate drew me into an intellectual tug-of-war with myself that for weeks seemed to be a complete standoff. It’s been a frustrating time that until now had left me with about 10 incomplete essays and nothing to post.
But then it hit me. The tug-of-war was self inflicted. And the only reason I was in struggling was because I was blinding myself to the obvious. Game doesn’t really stem from PUA, it is PUA (which is also nothing new), just warmed over and re-branded with a catchy lexicon and a “new and improved” label on the bottle.
In other words, it’s male pussy centrism, just like it always has been.
HOWEVER,
Roissy and the others have unearthed, or at the very least articulated an idea that has the potential for massive utility. Understanding the Evo-psychology of women, and using it to your advantage, is an untapped gold mine for male sexual empowerment, and male protection from the gynocracy. For all their work, they have introduced us to the possibilities of Game, and now it is time to take those ground breaking efforts and move forward with a model designed exclusively with male protectionism in mind, both in public and private life.
Let’s face it. Pussy is power. It always has been. Pussy power is so great that women can have an entire world of men working like dogs and handing over their money, yielding seats on life boats, opening their doors, acting like trained seals for their approval, agreeing with whatever bullshit comes out of their mouths, and at the same time have those men nodding and agreeing when women claim that men have all the power and need to do more to make things better for women.
True to their unfortunate nature, men will pass laws, lock each other up and brutalize each other to make sure that all these feminine biddings are done.
If that isn’t power, I’ll eat my hat. And if you don’t believe me, ask Sampson, Dillinger, Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Tiger Woods, the Duke Three, The Hofstra Five or any of about a million men, from average to “powerful,” who have had their heads handed to them by even the weakest of women.
Clinton was outwitted by a 19 year old bimbo, with a little help from feminist governance. And if he had been a republican, whoa Nelly, his ass would have been fried to a crisp.
Am I making this up?
I think not.
Perhaps there was a time when the fake power of manhood worked. Hell, it got us top the moon when I was 12 years old. But we live in a different world than when I was 12. The average woman in today’s western culture should have a manufacturers warning tattooed just below the naval at birth. I used the one on the pic for the sake of brevity, but a more accurate one would read something like this:
MANUFACTURERS WARNING: Use of this product can result in early death, suicide, clinical depression, imprisonment, false accusations, destroyed reputation, poverty, spousal support, child support, loss of property, joblessness and social isolation.
Those would do for starters.
And this is where Game, if we take out the 99% bullshit focus on chasing pussy, can have a dramatic impact that can significantly improve the lives of men by helping them weed out the most destructive females, which they will more likely if not under the pressure and influence of perceived scarcity.
And that scarcity is just a perception because getting laid is the easy part. Hell, women these days are so sexually available that the whole idea of PUA would seem to be moot. There is no “artistry” to picking up women, and anyone who thinks there is should not be trusted with a box of crayons. But the traditional methods for men to “attract” women are, in fact, a product of real historical scarcity. And while the sexual landscape has changed dramatically, three million years of programming dies hard.
But the point of Game, which I now call Zeta Game, is in recognizing that while neither sex nor women are scarce, they can both be as dangerous as they are pleasurable, and that an intimate knowledge of the forces that unconsciously drive women, and the ability to exploit it, can help men meet sexual needs and stay out of harms way at the same time.
In the end, it’s not about getting women, but in being able to select them at will, and dispose quickly and safely of the unwanted and/or dangerous ones.
You don’t need a book or a series of articles on this. If you are a quick starter, you can get everything you need to know about attracting women from these two eight minute videos. It isn’t that I am that smart. It is that women are that simple. This isn’t rocket science.
You see, the important thing here is not that I succeeded in getting laid. What was most important was that one, I put no real energy, or money, into the equation. And two, I turned the power dynamic between myself and women a full 180 degrees from what I had always known. I became the selector from a pool of willing women. No need for bullshit pick up lines.Why would I have wasted my time approaching women in bars and other places, trying to impress them or get their phone number when I could just pick among the women that were offering themselves up to have sex with me on a regular basis?
Answer, I fucking wouldn’t. And neither should you. Picking one woman and “going after her” is for men who can’t get a room full of women to come after them. And the truth is that almost any man can own that room, top to bottom, if he wants to.
And the advantage to this is monumental. You find out things about women who are crawling into bed with you, and even before they do. You can, and should, take the opt out when the danger signs show up. Too entitled? Next. Two kids and an attitude about the ex? See ya. Whatcha gonna buy me? Hasta la vista, baby. All these women are problems, and bigger problems waiting to happen, but you can adios any of them before or after having sex with them.
Why? Because there will be more waiting for you. And the more of them you pump and dump, the more the others will tingle when you walk into the room. They may hate you, or fear you, but they will want you just the same.
And why should you want to dump them so unceremoniously? Remember that warning label? Well, it wasn’t made up out of thin air. People always broadcast who they are…if you are listening.
If a woman you barely know thinks she is entitled to dig into your wallet just because she is going to sleep with you, then what do you imagine she would feel entitled to after sleeping with you for a year? After getting married?
If a woman talks constantly about the abusive, horrible men in her life, and men in general, how do you think she will end up talking about you? And to whom, the police maybe?
The thing is, contrary to popular feminist belief, men fall in love and dedicate to women at some point in their lives. And their tendency is to give everything. Usually the routine goes along traditional lines. Man spots girl, sets out to impress her and win her affections. He leads with his wallet, puts on his best act and ignores every warning sign she is broadcasting because he views her as a scarce resource. Because he feels like he has very limited options.
So if she accepts him, he considers himself lucky. He has found the woman of his dreams, she has returned his love, and all is right with the world.
He may spend the better part of the rest of this life finding out just how wrong he was. And in most cases, while he will find out that he was wrong, he will never know why. He will usually be incapable of figuring out that when you fish with stink bait, you catch bottom feeders. If you use your money to attract women, you get shallow materialists. If you use your willingness to sacrifice to her whims, you get narcissism. If you use deference and agreement, you get entitlement.
If you use all three, you get the typical western women.
The techniques for helping you avoid that pitfall, and perhaps find someone atypical to hang with for a while, are simple. Once you have established yourself as a sexually in demand with the women in your group, there is a code, a list of four screening behaviors and attitudes that will help cull out the deadweight (almost all of them) and set you up to find what I call a “manageable” woman. More on that in the next Zeta Game piece.
Da Rules
1. Leave your wallet in your pocket. If you want a whore, go to a massage parlor. They are guaranteed to put out for a fixed price, and they don’t follow you around and talk when you’re done.
2. Don’t “date,” women. Ever. Hang out with them. Party with them. Eat with them. But it is never a date. Dating implies financial responsibility on your part, and perhaps gives the impression of exclusivity before you desire it. You owe women nothing for their company or their bodies.
Look at it this way. You can “ask a woman out” and spend a lot of money on food and drink. But if you take the social club route as I suggested in the video, she can eat and drink with the group on her dime (or some beta‘s), vie with the other women for your attention, and then go home with you if you select her.
3. Never make a pass at a woman. Never. Stay Zeta and they will make a pass at you.
4. Remember- Sleeping with a woman does not mean you owe her anything. Not a relationship, not a call the next day, not even a promise not to sleep with her sister.
Notice something about these rules. None of them govern anything you should do, but simply show you what you don’t have to do. There is nothing here that says do this or do that for women. It is just the opposite. You do nothing for them at all. You simply live your life without regard to them one way or another. They will show up offering their goods without you doing a damn thing.
It is just that simple.
When you join a social club, make it one that you would enjoy if it were just men. Keep it in your own comfort zone. Make it a group where you can and will make male friends. It has to have some value to you without the female presence.
If you are a staunch conservative, don’t join the Sierra Club thinking it is Zeta. It’s not. Joining a group like that when you think they are all morons for the sake of being around women is fake, and it calls on you to start things off with a lie.
I know what some of you are saying. Ha! Joining any club, even one you would like, with the idea of women in mind is just more pussy begging.
All puns aside, I beg to differ.
Avoiding pussy centrism does not mean you have to crawl in a hole or only go places that you think women aren’t. In fact, that can be as pussy centric, only in reverse, as practicing PUA. Living a life that presents sexual opportunities is normal for any man. Only a few are so jaded from being screwed over that they have ruled out any possibility of sex or relationship again.
Most men will keep trying. Either to meet sexual needs, or find a “partner.” And while I caution against the latter, I understand that it is going to happen whether I caution against it or not.
So unless your goal is the complete removal of women from your life, which is understandable given what many men have gone through with them, then a sexual empowerment and risk management program is in order.
When men don’t operate out of a sense of scarcity, they have the opportunity to make better decisions. When they make better decisions, they have a tendency to get screwed over a lot less.
Next in the Zeta Game series- OK, so you started something regular, what next?
{ 353 comments… read them below or add one }
Queue the bunch of guys saying that Game is for losers.
Proyection isn’t hard to predict.
Nice article Paul.
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Superb article, and excellent information for men out there who don’t quite grasp the new social landscape. Everyone will have their own opinion about Game, and I think it depends in great part on where each man is in his own life. I tend to agree with Paul, here, in the sense that investing a great deal of time and effort in learning social tactics and strategy seems wasteful, considering what else I can do with my time; but then, no two men get exactly the same mileage, and I’ll happily respect the opinion of the men that find Game useful.
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@Paul Elam
“Understanding the Evo-psychology of women, and using it to your advantage, is an untapped gold mine for male sexual empowerment, and male protection from the gynocracy.”
What’s “the gynocracy”? Is this the equivalent of feminist patriarchy theory? It seems just as conspiratorial, at any rate.
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@Paul Elam
“Leave your wallet in your pocket. If you want a whore, go to a massage parlor. They are guaranteed to put out for a fixed price, and they don’t follow you around and talk when you’re done.”
Does this mean that the woman is expected to pay for everything, i.e. the dinner and the movie? Does this mean that if she pays for the date that the guy is a whore for excepting her money?
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Game – love it or hate it – is a very important tool. Just remember that it’s all about going your own way.
It’s simple, really:
Hate Game? Don’t practice it. Avoid deriding those who do.
Love Game? Practice it. Avoid deriding those who don’t.
Very much enjoyed reading and watching, Paul. I have learnt *a lot*, believe me.
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I’d say a political system where women elevate men into public office due to their history of pandering to women’s interests while ignoring brutality against men is a pretty legit example of a gynocracy. Still don’t agree? Then what do you call society where women have more educational and job opportunities than men but still receive the lion’s share of the government handouts?
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@Paul Elam
“There is nothing here that says do this or do that for women. It is just the opposite. You do nothing for them at all. You simply live your life without regard to them one way or another. They will show up offering their goods without you doing a damn thing.”
Men and women don’t live in a vacuum from each other. It’s anathema to our psyches to have no regard for each other. We are programed instinctually by eons of evolution to notice each other, and to want each other’s recognition. What you’re proposing is a system where only women seek men’s recognition; but, are doomed to have no reciprocation. This is the kind of loneliness that leads to deep depression…
Why are you telling men to do nothing for women? This is not to be confused with telling them that they don’t have to do everything, I mean why are you telling them to do nothing at all? Relationships are built on shared responsibility. The only conclusion that I can reasonably draw from this is that you are calling for an end to relationships, and a complete embrace of the one-night-stand as a replacement, on the part of men. Am I correct? If so, this is no substitute. What we’d have is a loveless mass of forlorn and distraught people, longing for someone intimate in the personal sense; someone, who’s shoulder they could rest their head on. The bond of love is so very important to the human heart. We would be doing a great injustice to both genders by trying to sever these bonds.
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You completely overstate the power of women. I for one don’t go through fire and ice in the course of my work because it will help me get ass. Until I met the wife, I would have been quite happy working it off on whores until my pork sword gave out.
What Clinton did would have passed notice forty years earlier. It didn’t that time because our society, in its drive for eternally prolonged adolescence, lost any sense of perspective about the realities of human sexual relations along the way. And the less said about how profoundly Woods fucked up the better.
Beware of ‘evo-psych’ too, more shit may be talked online about that subject than any, with the exceptions of the big three, politics, religion and economics.
‘Ug the caveman gets back from hunting mastodons to find Og the local brigand giving his missus a Cleveland steamer on the kitchen table. Ug tactfully leaves the mastodon on the doormat and tiptoes away to cry himself to sleep in the bushes. That’s why we’re all descended from Og.’
Spare me.
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“Men and women don’t live in a vacuum from each other. It’s anathema to our psyches to have no regard for each other. We are programed instinctually by eons of evolution to notice each other, and to want each other’s recognition. ”
Yes, that’s true. But let me put it this way: when the game is rigged, i don’t want to play anymore.
“Relationships are built on shared responsibility. ”
That would be nice, but that’s not the case today.
How old are you, 12? Women don’t love you. They just need resources, that’s all. Your heart has no importance.
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@thehermit
“How old are you, 12? Women don’t love you. They just need resources, that’s all. Your heart has no importance.”
I could almost ask you the same question. The way you talk it sounds reminiscent of my old school buddies, from when I was a young boy, warning me that girls have that strange affliction known as ‘cooties’.
The way you look at this is so wrongheaded, as to cause me bewilderment. Of course not all women love me. Some do, it depends on the individual person. And, they certainly don’t need any resources from me. If you haven’t noticed women are the majority of degree earners in schools and they are the most employed in the various industries right now. My heart has plenty of importance, both to me and to the people who love me.
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@thehermit
“when the game is rigged, i don’t want to play anymore.”
How is the ‘game’ rigged?
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Rights on one side, responsibilities on the other. But it was written thousand times, men have less and less motivation to marry, so you seem to be trolling.
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@James
“It’s simple, really:
Hate Game? Don’t practice it. Avoid deriding those who do.
Love Game? Practice it. Avoid deriding those who don’t.”
Why? I’m serious, why? The same could be said for any other philosophy, from liberalism to conservatism, from atheism to theism, from masculinism to feminism, from capitalism to socialism. Why shouldn’t we feel free to speak our minds about any subject we wish to talk about?
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Thanks Paul that was a real good article. It really looks like you put some thought into it.
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Rights for women, responsibilities for men….why should that make a men to marry? Where is the motivation? The chance of a ruined life? You have no real rights for your children, you are guilty in DV, until not proven innocent. Rigged.
No equal rights, no justice.
You may say i’m bitter, and a cynical. That’s right, but i’ve had to learn too much about women, too early in my life, too much what i did not want to know.
I have a conspiracy theory, that you are trolling here.
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“What’s “the gynocracy”? Is this the equivalent of feminist patriarchy theory? It seems just as conspiratorial, at any rate.”
Go away menareangrynow, you feminist.
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You’ve nailed it, thehermit.
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@thehermit
“I have a conspiracy theory, that you are trolling here.”
You’ll find that if you ask the people around here who know me well, such as Paul Elam, I think you’ll find a consensus that I’m not trolling anyone; I just have a differing opinion on a wide range of issues, and I am the sort to try to engage people about them.
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@thehermit
“Rights for women, responsibilities for men….why should that make a men to marry? Where is the motivation? The chance of a ruined life?”
Where on earth did I mention marriage? You don’t have to marry someone, if you love them. I’m the first to acknowledge that.
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menareangrynow
I liked the article and I understand where thehermit and james are coming from. As Paul was saying game is a good tool to weed out the problems. I would love to live in a world where you could just meet a woman win her over with love and respect and her to realise she is getting that from you and then she does her best to please you back. That world doesn’t exist any more. It hurts like hell inside to say that but that is the way it is.
To speak on the subject of Game is good. But to dog someone that uses game or not uses game is something I would not spend to much time doing.
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@thehermit
“You may say i’m bitter, and a cynical. That’s right, but i’ve had to learn too much about women, too early in my life, too much what i did not want to know.”
Are you sure you’re not just stereotyping them all?
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Where on earth did I mention marriage? You don’t have to marry someone, if you love them. I’m the first to acknowledge that.
Marriage, or a serious relationship, nearly the same. If you put too much emotions into it, you1ll be a loser on the end for sure, just because you’re a man.
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@menareangrynow
By all means speak your mind about it.
By ‘deriding’ I mean:
As opposed to:
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“Are you sure you’re not just stereotyping them all?”
It has no real importance if i do that or not. I can not make things did not happen. Also i can not change the era i’m living in. I’m doomed on a way or another.
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@thehermit
“It has no real importance if i do that or not.”
It does have importance. You shouldn’t stereotype an entire group of people, especially when you are aware that that’s what you are doing. It’s not something to shrug off so callously, it’s a serious trespass against your fellow man. Certainly you don’t like it when we men are portrayed as brutish and inept idiots by the media. Why do that to others? It’s not fair to them.
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@James
Alright. That’s quite fair. I’ll be very academic about these issues, for you.
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@Paul Elam
I was wondering what the impetus of the picture headlining the article was. Why use that picture. I get that your trying to be edgy; but, you think that this might cross a line? It seems a little hostile towards women, when it’s the dating world you want to attack, right?
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The only Game that a man really ever needed in our bygone society of a more honest era and earnest age, was that Game he got from good parental socialisation and education in a home presided over by his father with his mother as second liuetennant.
It is only because mothers now merely on account of their gender, according to this awfully wicked society, are now entitled to kick out fathers and socially, sexually and economically dominate the family and boys in their fathers enforrced abscence, that GAME ever became topical. Boys are simply adjusting by circumstantial force, to their natural needing to learn how to be men from somewhere. A thing which was once a natural herittable right from their fathers whom as “Fathers” endowed boys with this entitlement as human beings wrought of their own flesh and blood.
But now, whilst this goddammned society of liars and fascists respects the fact that young girls should have the full unimpeded, unfettered access to their mothers from childhood to womanhood, boys on the other hand are to be denied the same rights of presence to and from their fathers. Consequently boys rights to the living presence of fathers in the family home are perpetually erroded away and denuded away as not as important or contary to womens intrests … unlike girls rights to their own mothers which is recognised as important. What a stinking nasty place for inocent boys eh ?
Any man seeing these things and really understanding this dirty, dehumanising society of cynicism and contempt for males, immediately sees and knows that GAME is simply a circumstantial treatment and not a veritable cure to the problems of malign intersexual politics and culture stemming from Genderism.
GAME will not bring up or deliver from evil, ALL our young genderclass brothers and male babies of our own sex born to fatherless homes from boyhood to manhood. Only the total and utter destruction of Genderism and its MALE supporters, suborners and co-conspirators, by a well schooled and politically aware militia will do to clean up /end its contamnation.
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Look, i’ve never ever seen a woman, who took full responsibility for her deeds.
so they can not be trusted, that’s all. I don’t want to bash them for that, just point the fact.
The other fact: they are the ones who say all men are inferior (i never said anything similar about women). the worst thing is that they teach that on universities, poisoning the next generations. There has to be a point where we- as a group- say: enough is enough, get your dirty hands off of our children.
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It is not bashing or stereotyping it is just pointing out reality. No more lies just to keep up appearances of civility.
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Don’t feed the troll.
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“You shouldn’t stereotype an entire group of people, especially when you are aware that that’s what you are doing.”
Stereotyping is a form of pattern recognition, which is the basis for most thought. Science breaks all things down into groups and classifications to better understand our complex reality. Should we account for exceptions to the rule? Absolutely. Should we ignore the rule because of exceptions? Absolutely not.
Its not like the people here just got screwed over by one women and turned MRA. Most got screwed over repeatedly, or once really hard by our system of laws and government, which are by there nature not “one of a kind” events.
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Er, I hate these ‘game’ articles. Stick to the politics. Women are not worth any effort at all. I exclusively have sex with prostitutes. Women are nothing but sex objects to me, until the day I decide it is time to have a family.
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The most concise definition of Game I’ve seen thus far is, “Applied sociobiology.” I describe it as a highly focused form of public speaking.
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Recovering nice guy here. How do you go from “Chivilrous sucker” to alpha male?
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Very good explanation. I need to pick up a few of these habits.
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The problem is they frequenly get this wrong, for example by saying over and over as if it were one of Newton’s Laws that females are naturally hypergamous and thus desirous of alpha males. They aren’t. Hypergamy is one of the pillars of patriarchy, it is thus an artificial cultural invention, and we all here know how women hate, resist, and want to undermine it. Everything built on the females-are-hypergamous axiom is going to fail miserably and one would do well to do the reverse of what it suggests doing. Much of what Paul says here supports this.
You need to move to where I live, which is right at the intersection of Yahoo-ville and Fugly-ville. I see a woman I might actually want to have sex with about every 3-5 years. This doesn’t mean scarcity increases value, it just means absence causes one to totally eliminate any such considerations from ones consciousness. The very rare occasions then are kinda like finding a $10 bill on the sidewalk.
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Game is simply this: to fuck with women’s minds, thus inducing gina tingles in them. Please note the plural in ‘minds’ and ‘them’, meaning game practitioners do not believe in the one man- one woman monogamous system. Which means marriage is no-no. Which is a good thing.
Therefore, I fail to see why some men keep insisting that game/PUA is the antithesis of men’s rights, when game is supposed to give men control, power and leverage when it comes to fraternizing with women. Perhaps it’s an underlying moral/religious aversion to a hedonistic lifestyle? Do not find fault with men who see sex as nothing more than another bodily function such as taking a dump in the toilet.
If you have to get laid anyway, do it efficiently. Listening to Tom Leykis would be a good place to start and familiarize yourself with the fundamentals.
Following up game’s mind humping with actual humping is optional (certainly welcome), but the man gets to call the shots. That’s what it boils down to.
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Gents, Mr. Truth said to me “Women make much of the power of the pussy but there is also the power of money. And bewteen money and pussy, money wins every time.” I have found this to be true.
Further. The way to end the ‘whiting knighting’ of the man-hating mangina apologists is to call them exactly that. Whenever a man jumps in to ‘defend’ a woman I call him a man-hating, whiting knighting, mangina apologist. I pile it on thick. I tell him that he’s sexist and demeaning to women because by his actions he is claiming women are not able to take care of themselves.
Gents. I urge ALL men to label ANY man who leaps to the defence of a ‘woman’ as a man-hating, white knighting, mangina apologist who has demonstrated he thinks women are lesser beings and is sexist and discriminatory and he should mind his own fucking business and let women defend themselves. You should see how men react to this. It’s a lot of fun. Once they realise they have lost the respect of a MAN for defending a woman they are mortified. They are expecting other men to applaud them for defending the women. I’ve done this a few times now in real life. It’s great fun!! I am doing it on line as well but the effect is not so visible.
What are you waiting for trash a man today for being a white knight!!! As Paul points out. Women ONLY get their power because men will do their bidding. When a MAN is denigrated and attacked socially for doing so? He will soon stop. It will not take many times to do this to each man to stop him in his tacks!
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Poiuyt July 20, 2010 at 06:14
“Only the total and utter destruction of Genderism and its MALE supporters, suborners and co-conspirators, by a well schooled and politically aware militia will do to clean up /end its contamnation.”
Brilliant. Just brilliant.
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Gentlemen,
I am sad to say that my Game is celibacy. Yes, I wish it were not so, but that ‘s the fact of life as a 50 year-old geeky engineer with an interminable memory of the abuse leveled at me via the ‘ex and the California courts.
It makes it impossible to foster any feelings of joy when I know damned well that my rights are of no consequence when it comes to visitation of my two daughters. S oI don’t pursue pussy just because – it’s rotten to me.
What I simply don’t understand is how many of you, and the tenor of this article is same as game, have this drive to still fake making love to the very ones you loathe.
I just don’t get it, and while I’ve tried and failed miserably, WHY do most of you think that it is an inalienable right to put your dicks into them?
I’ve given up entirely, and while not happy about it, am still hopeful that eventually I will find a mate of some sort. first I have to get over the idea that my ‘ex basically stole my children from me by continually reducing my visitation time with them. It is a hurt that some may pass easily – but these are my children – not just hers. There is a problem here and I’m determined to solve it.
But to go from a man that was once in a monogamous relationship to a ricky rooster – well good luck with that – it’s just not my style.
Really – please explain why you feel the need to even fuck these women? I say deny them everything they want. EVERYTHING includes your dick.
The way you guys write, it’s as if sex is as essential as oxygen; it’s not.
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Perhaps it’s an underlying moral/religious aversion to a hedonistic lifestyle?
Perhaps. I don’t believe in hedonism.
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This is all nice in theory and all, but what you’re advocating is acting like an individual of low character. Quality women (yes, we still exist) don’t go for that. This approach will only work on a woman of low self-esteem with daddy issues. By treating her poorly, you appeal to deep-rooted psychological conflicts that exist because her father didn’t give her enough love/attention/positive feedback in her early formative years. In a futile attempt to relive this relationship and improve on it, she is attracted to asshole behavior and will inevitably allow herself to be hurt again and again by “bad boys.” Eventually she becomes jaded and starts to hate all men and treats them accordingly.
This is your target group.
Your techniques will only be effective on this particular subset of women: low self-esteem, broken women. People of good character don’t like being treated poorly, and won’t stand for it. They will cut off contact with those that treat them this way.
Like attracts like. You act like a boorish, irresponsible “bad boy”, and you’ll inevitably attract the bottom feeders/losers. As you stated, it’s easy to get laid these days. Just walk into a sleazy bar and select from the available pool of bar skank with cheap hair extensions. Not exactly rocket science is it?
If you don’t want commitment, why even bother in the first place? You should utilize the services of a prostitute, instead of treating women poorly and damaging their fragile egos even further, thereby perpetuating the very cycle you wish to break.
Treating a person with a basal level of respect does not equal “pedestaling”.
There are still good men and women out there, and they manage to find each other and lead fulfilling lives together based on mutual respect. I know of many personal examples, including my parents, my sister and her fiance, and myself and my boyfriend.
If the majority of your experiences with women have been negative, you may want to ask yourself, is there something about myself and my character that contributes to this equation, instead of blaming the entire female gender for the behavior of the bottom feeders you invariably attract.
Like attracts like.
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Tattooing infants? Really?
Infants are products?
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Several generations of men have to be taught and subsequently learn a whole other approach to the mating dynamic that feminism has deconstructed. The traditional style “courting” will no longer work and chivalry is dead. And the “nice guy” pro-feminism/women’s rights male is an anachronism as well.
Call it game or PUA or whatever, it’s what informed modern men are doing to adapt to the current situation. Because that’s what men do.
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I don’t agree with Paul Elam’s methods, PUA or the Game. They all don’t work.
You want a real method that suits men for getting pussy. Read David X or read Alan Roger Currie. Those guys will help you to avoid manipulative women and get the women you want. David X’s two rules are:
1. Don’t worry about what she is thinking or what she says
2. Your the most important person in this relationship.
Their methods are simple straightforward and honest.
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“Roissy and the others have unearthed, or at the very least articulated an idea that has the potential for massive utility. ”
R.Don Steele elucidated all this decades ago, and he correctly punctured the concept of “picking up women”. Roissy’s constant braggadocio about roguring drunken bar skanks is tiresome.
Frankly, whenever in my life I met a gal who dropped trou within minutes of first hello I couldn’t get a woodie. It short-circuits the normal pursuit instincts and renders me flaccid. Something in the back of my lizard brain says I am in real danger and sends a deflation control signal to my little head. When, through Herculean effort of concentration, I overcame this natural event it had catastrophic results.
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Paul,
“He may spend the better part of the rest of this life finding out just how wrong he was.”
Yep..that was me. Young men take note. 25 years ago it was different. There were no older men telling us young guys just how dangerous women were. My mum told my my then-gf was a ‘scarlet woman’ and ‘only after my money’. But I was a starving uni student. I couldn’t even afford beer. I was so broke. My mums ‘warning’ that ‘she is only after your money’ seemed like a joke. 23 years later? My mum as right. But back then she could not bring herself to tell me what women were really like. Not even to save her own son this inconvenience. You young men should know. ALL women are liars and hypocrites. Even your own mum. They will NOT tell you what you need to know to stay safe from women. They want their grandkids and you are who has to be sacrificed to get them. It’s that simple. So listen up to men like Dr. Paul. He’s telling it to you straight!
“3. Never make a pass at a woman. Never. Stay Zeta and they will make a pass at you.”
So true. I really just don’t care any more about attracting women. They seem to be drawn to indifference like a fly to honey. They just can’t stand the idea that a man really couldn’t give a shit about them and they set out to PROVE how valuable and wonderful they are.
I was in a ‘german bar’ the other day waiting for a ‘new friend’ to show up. She has possibilities. This woman came in that I thought I knew. I am pretty regular there. So I walked over to her and about 5 meters away realised I did not know her. But she smiled and seemed happy for the attention. So I just explained that she looked very much like a women I had ‘dated’ a couple of times who is really beautiful, lovely and friendly, blah, blah, blah. I laid it on thick. Then said “But….. You are not her. Oh well.” And I turned on my heel to leave ‘indifferently’. She was all ‘Hey, I’m not your friend, but I might be.’ Predictable. So we chatted a bit. The woman who HAD agreed to meet me was late so it seemed I had time. I told her I was expecting a ‘friend’ so she piled it on thick and fast about how ‘wonderful’ she is. I told her that if my friend didn’t show, maybe we can talk more. When my friend finally showed you should have seen the angry jealous look on her face!! Priceless. So I will DEFINITELY be ‘dating’ her sooner or later. There is nothing so attractive to a woman as a man who has women lined up.
“2. Don’t “date,” women.”
I seem to be able to get away with ‘dating’ in as much as I send one of my favs a text to say I am thinking of coming back to Germany. Are you available? Fav#1 knows that if she’s ‘not available’ I will text fav#4. LOL! If neither are ‘available’ then it’s time to go out with Mr. Truth to see if I can put one more in the ‘hopper’ for later. One Friday I flew into frankfurt and spent the day/night with fav#4 in a nice hotel. After ‘pleasantries’ on the saturday morning I was packing to leave. She asked ‘What are you doing for your weekend?’ I said. “I’m spending the weekend with fav#1. We are scheduled to meet for lunch so I have to get going. By the way. Are you free next sunday? I fly out monday morning and it would be nice to see you sunday.” Yep. She was free for me. That’s my version of ‘dating’.
When I got to fav#1 she was all chatty and asked “When did you get in?” thinking I had just arrived on Saturday morning as usual. Me: “Oh, yesterday.” Her: “Really? What did you do last night, go out with your mates?” Me: “No. I stayed in a really nice hotel in frankfurt with fav#4. In fact, I had to hurry her out to get here on time.” To which she was ‘fuming’. Then, later that day she asks me “Am I as good (at sex) as fav#4?” She was busting her buns to be the best she could be because she knew she was competing with fav#4. The next Saturday? When she knew I was seeing fav#4 on Sunday before flying out? She gave me the best day I ever had in my entire life. Better than the days my kids were born. It was just amazing. I think she was trying to completely tire me out and make sure that fav#4 would look really bad by comparison. Damn that was fun!
Yep…I do ‘date’. But when I have two going at once I play them off one another. It works just fine. Women I tell that to? They call me names. Great! It shows I am getting to them!
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“Infants are products?”
Well, not quite. Rather, they are government property.
(as indentured servants)
A common misconception is that people have children, but they don’t.
The government has purchased women (or acquired financially) so that what comes out of their body belongs to the state.
Not so different, after all, from farming. (cows produce milk, chickens produce eggs and women produce children). Men produce bacon and food for cannons.
We humans are animals with an attitude.
And we are making such fuss about that..
Reminds me of chickens in a barn… lol!
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You completely overstate the power of women. I for one don’t go through fire and ice in the course of my work because it will help me get ass. It’s half pride and 2/3 for the cash which I need to get self-sufficient and ankle the whole society. Until I met the wife, I would have been quite happy working it off on whores until my pork sword gave out.
What Clinton did would have passed notice forty years earlier. It didn’t that time because our society, in its drive for eternally prolonged adolescence, lost any sense of perspective about the realities of human sexual relations along the way. And the less said about how profoundly Woods fucked up the better.
Beware of ‘evo-psych’ too, far too much pseudoscientific nonsense in this vein is to be found online:
‘Ug the caveman gets back from hunting mastodons to find Og the local brigand giving his missus a Cleveland steamer on the kitchen table. Ug tactfully leaves the mastodon on the doormat and tiptoes away to cry himself to sleep in the bushes.’
Spare me.
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@ MAAN
First, I reject entirely that you are a troll. I know better. Second, I reject entirely almost every point you made. I just don’t think I can explain it any better than has already been explained to you.
The world of women you imagine is not the one that exists with any reliability whatsoever.
As to the wallet statement, it is a simple metaphor. The point is that you don’t attract a decent woman with money any more than you can with crack.
@ assman
“I don’t agree with Paul Elam’s methods, PUA or the Game. They all don’t work.
You want a real method that suits men for getting pussy. ”
STOP THERE. Go back and read it again. The article isn’t about getting pussy.
@ speechless
Please consult a dictionary. Look up metaphor.
@ Joanna
“Quality women (yes, we still exist) don’t go for that. ”
True enough. I know quality women still exist, most evidently in their own minds.
I am not writing for the infinitesimal minority of men that actually find one of you self proclaimed good catches.
As to the rest of your post, you misunderstood the intent. Women with low self esteem and Daddy issues are the overarching norm. This is what our culture is best at producing. Some are more dangerous than others. The whole point of this is (as this is just an intro) is to cull out the most troublesome, either before or after your sexual needs are met.
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@ GB
The actual intent of most of this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Most men are locked into their routines with women until the pain of that creates a change. It won’t happen from an article. As with my own story, I changed because I was desperate not to repeat the same bullshit with women. And personally speaking, I have never looked back since.
If I want sex, I get it. Anytime. If I don’t want to be bothered with nagging and droning, which I don’t, I nix it immediately. And I have no financial vulnerability to the gynocracy at all, any more.
Thanks for your insights, they are right in step with what I am saying.
menareangrynow is obviously a woman. Note the ‘male’ avatar when most folks here don’t bother with avatars at all.
She’s thinking “I don’t want anyone to know I’m a woman so I’m going to be as ‘excessively male’ as possible.”
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Joanna wrote:
If you don’t want commitment, why even bother in the first place? You should utilize the services of a prostitute, instead of treating women poorly and damaging their fragile egos even further, thereby perpetuating the very cycle you wish to break.
—
A damnfine question, and one I’ve never seen answered convincingly either by feminists or ‘game’ proponents.
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Joanna July 20, 2010 at 09:27
“If you don’t want commitment, why even bother in the first place?”
You would mean the ‘commitment’ where whenever the woman wants, for no reason at all apart from greed, she can steal the children, steal the house, steal the proceeds of the mans life work, and even steal his future income? You mean THAT kind of commitment from the man? And what does the woman offer as an obligation in reward for this ‘commitment’? Nothing. If he even presses for sex she can cry ‘rape’ in the marital bed and he’s off to jail for 10-15 for having cosentual sex with his own wife? THAT kind of ‘commitment’? Fuck off. We don’t want it. Me? I won’t even TALK to a western woman let alone give her the benefit of me having sex with her.
“Quality women (yes, we still exist) don’t go for that.”
Thank you for making this claim. It gives me a chance to rebutt it thoroughly. Pretty much every woman will say that there are ‘quality’ women out there. Really? Where? I checked. There are so few as to not count. I know TWO western women that I remain in communication with as friends. The rest I dropped. This includes my oldest woman friend of 32 years and the wives of my best friends. I won’t even talk to them unless I really have to from a professional point of view. I have NO social interaction with ANY western woman and I’d suggest other men consider the same.
When my bank accounts were frozen, personal and company, and I was cast into poverty, when my then wife committed the crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft. I talked to the women who claimed to be ‘good women’ and asked them for help. Guess what? They wouldn’t. This included her mother, best friends, closest confidants. This included women who claimed to be christian where I was christian and my ex had renounced her christianity and was refusing to bring my children up in the faith as she took a VOW to do. Despite the fact that Jesus himself commands all christians to bring the ‘lost sheep back to the flock’ the so call ‘good christian women’ refused to do that with an wife who had renounced her religion, broken her vows, was committing perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft. I was shocked.
Then, once I survived my suicial period, I started the process of fixing the massive problems in the family law systems. I asked women to enter into debate on the ‘pussy pass’ for these crimes that MILLIONS of women commit. I have proposed discussion to THOUSANDS of women. Guess what? They won’t even TALK about it. Bitches. For proposing discussion I was abused on the blogs of the leading newspaper in Sydney up to and including calls for my death. I have a woman running hate campiagns against me publishing my real details in escort sites and gay mens sites as well as bombarding me with hate mail for having the ‘audacity’ to speak the truth. You women truely are crap now.
I then found the leaders in the battle against the corrupted courts, the Irish Free Man group. I did a long interview there where the host suggested there were many ‘good irish women’. So I challenged those ‘good irish women’ to form a court and try my ex fairly and justly for the crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft that were committed on THEIR land according to how THEY say criminals should be treated. There would be at least 200 women in that group. Only THREE volunteered to sit on that jury in the 5.5 months I gave them. At least ONE woman there recently has called the the ‘extermination of husbands like mine’ and another woman strongly endorsed that call. If a man said such he would be denounced.
The fact of the matter Joanna is that there are so few good women in the west that their numbers are not significant. You women condone and support perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft because you will not stand up against it. When a man asked for women to discipline your own for the crimes you sistas commit you won’t do it. I am disgusted in the lies and hypocrisy of western woman. I call you ALL the liars and hypocrites you are. I, for one, will not tolerate any woman proposing there are ‘good women’ in the west until such time as those ‘good women’ have punished appropriately every single woman whom a man can prove committed a crime against him. Every….single….one. Once that is done. I will concede THOSE women who sat on those juries and ordered punishment for their sistas who are criminals are the ONLY ones who are worthy of the label ‘good women’.
Now…. You are dimissed. Go away. Come back when you have a jury of women willing to justly and fairly try and order remedy for a woman who is found guilty of a crime against a man. Men have done this for men who committed crimes against women from time immemorial. Women refuse to do it even in the 21st century.
Women are equal? My arse.
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You truly cannot have a “warning label” for such fine pussy.
What is true, is no man can serve two masters.
A Man cannot serve both his brain and his cock.
Realize game is more about men – for men – than it is about women.
Realize also that Orlando Bloom fucks Miranda Kerr – and she’s glad about it.
Realize also that Charles Manson probably racked up more notches than you ever will – and he’s been in prison since 1970.
(Hey welmer, updating the site – then going on vacation is smooth.)
It really works great.
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Joanna wrote:
“If you don’t want commitment, why even bother in the first place? You should utilize the services of a prostitute, instead of treating women poorly and damaging their fragile egos even further, thereby perpetuating the very cycle you wish to break.”
Who says we wish to break any ‘cycle’? Who says we care as to whether we ‘damage the fragile female ego’? You women have shown us men how much you care for us. You destroy our lives on a whim and the rest of you cheer on the grrrrls. Who the fuck cares if men are now going to rub your noses in your own shit? Suck it up. Men are now waking up to your true nature and they do NOT like what they see. So they are going to treat you accordingly. As the liars and hypocrites you are.
By the way. In many countries, eg US/UK, prostitution is illegal and expensive. Men are constantly targeted, demonised, villified, denigrated and terrorised by women with respect to prostitution. One name. Elliot Sptizer. And it is only the MAN who will be so. Did women denounce the hooker he was with? No. She’s an empowered grrrrl.
So. Fuck you Joanna for suggesting that men expose themselves to your sistas vitriol by commiting acts they might go to jail or have their careers destroyed for. And if you think this is not the case. Why is this psycho bitch posting my details all over escort sites? You think SHE doesn’t think that might have an effect on my business? On my reputation?
You bitches blatantly commit perjury on such serious accusations as false rape allegations and the rest of you bitches do nothing about it….let alone mere prostitution. Go clean up the mess your sistas made and leave the men to develop our own remedies.
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I’m not really on vacation — my kids are.
Anyway, I’m mostly taking a break from writing. Still working on the backend pretty much every day.
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Good point. I do hookers all the time.
Unfortunately, in order to maintain control over guys, by and large, women and manginas oppose legalization of prostitution, and have been upping the ante with exaggerated claims of sex trafficking and pressuring law enforcement to focus on payahs (i.e., johns).
And while I would gladly trade in my career and a short jail sentence in exchange for the sex I’ve had with hookers – in fact, I’d trade it in just for the chance to bang the gorgeous 20-year old “virgin” hooker with supermodel looks I was with this past Sunday – other guys don’t want to take that chance, especially if it happens to them in one of their first times out of the gate. Others, including myself, still also deal with amateurs since, after all, if we can get it good without risking our careers and freedom, all the better.
So, yes, give us our right to choose willing sex partners, just like Roe v. Wade essentially gave women that right, and a lot of us will give up game. Until women give up their sexual stranglehold on us by allowing us access to the many great girls who are perfectly willing to give it up for a reasonable price, our choices are limited, and womens’ egos will continue to take the hit. Since its either our egos that suffer from not getting laid, which ends up snowballing into our not being able to be attractive to the women we really are into – or womens’ egos that suffer from Game – the course of action for guys is clear.
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Paul Elam July 20, 2010 at 10:19
“As with my own story, I changed because I was desperate not to repeat the same bullshit with women. And personally speaking, I have never looked back since.”
Paul, it was similar for me. After my separation I dated three western women. I was looking for wife 2.0. The first two were complete wackos right from the start. The third took a while to reveal her ‘wackodom’. Mr. Truth suggested I date a Russian woman. I did(Ukrainian). She is fav#1 and she’s been around over 2 years now. She’s lovely. Since dating her and then about 20 more eastern women I too have never looked back. I have found three more ‘favs’ in that two years. One moved on. One I discarded. I will never date a woman who is not from eastern europe ever again. Not a chance.
I find western women quite repulsive. I’ve been in the UK a LOT these last 18 months and the women here are just ‘nasty’. I was in a bar with some mates last friday and this young black guy was trying real hard to ‘chat up’ these really ugly black girls. They consistently talked down to him and demeand him and threatened to hit him and throw their drinks on him. This went on for more than 30 minutes in my hearing. I felt like telling the young man. ‘Tell the bitches to fuck off and walk away’. That’s what it’s like being a young man in the UK now. The smarter guys shoo the women away like flies. It is amazing to see.
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DirkJohanson July 20, 2010 at 11:35
Interestingly. In germany prostitution is legal and plentiful. The place is packed with whore houses. I don’t think you can be 100 meters from a whore house in a major german city. They are everywhere. They are quite open about it and the young guys who go have no shame and no fear of anyone knowing. They don’t brag about it. But since the men I work with all know my position they are doing their damndest to get me into one. Their stories are quite amazing.
One result this seems to have is that women ‘put out’ on first meeting. And I mean first meeting. If they are not willing to put out on first meeting then they don’t get the first date. My theory is that they know full well the man can get what he wants from the next woman or from the prostitute that is just down the road.
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I don’t play ‘game’ because it means that I have to be dishonest (to myself as well as to women). I don’t need a revenge motive either. …nor do I have a need for the overrated pvssy which needs too much ‘care and attention’ and it’s not that visually pleasing. It’s not worth the work.
My disinterest in women has actually interested quite a few. I prefer it that way as women seem to have some sort of need to change men like me who just don’t give a rip about them.
It’s called freedom gentlemen.
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Globalman,
I don’t know what happened to you other than what you wrote here, but it sounds awful. You harbor a lot of anger, which is perfectly understandable. You may be correct when you state that the number of quality women may be insignificant, but that does not entitle you to curse at me in a disrespectful manner.
I make no apologies for my gender. I would have to agree that most women are relatively lazy compared to men and are looking for the easy way out. I’m appalled at how most women act. Many want a provider, of course. This is evolutionarily imprinted into their collective psyche over the past few million years. Similarly, the collective male psyche chooses young, beautiful, fertile women (Evo-Psych 101).
However I would like to raise the following point: many men here deride women for “going after their money” (the female evolutionary bottom line: find a provider), but it’s perfectly acceptable for the men to desire young/beautiful/fertile women over less attractive, older women (the male evolutionary bottom line: pass on your genes).
Again, like attracts like. If you value the external and superficial above all else, you’ll attract a mate who espouses similar values. We may have vestiges of the evolutionary bottom line still within us, but we are human beings as well, and hopefully that means at least some of us can transcend the urges dictated by the reptilian parts of our brains.
Women have been brainwashed by feminism; I think we all know that here. It’s pathetic and has caused a lot of damage, but more and more women are waking up. The internet has allowed many to re-learn history and know what really happened (pun intended, check the website).
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I can attest to that. Such inflated egos.
The worst part about it is that the blokes just can’t see it no matter how obvious it is that they are not even worth acknowledging; they still want a piece of ‘action’ that they’re not getting and find the idea of Game abhorrent because it “demeans and objectifies women. If I hear that phrase one more time I will end up in the loony bin.
And don’t get me started on how they behave around the women. Like flies on shit.
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Re: Prostitution in Germany
I lived in Germany for five years and never “put out” on the first date. I dated several gentlemen there who treated me with respect. Come to think of it, they always paid, even though I offered to split. Many female friends there told me that German men hardly ever pay for dates.
Yes, prostitution is legal there and this certainly serves as a useful outlet for some men. However, I don’t think it is a significant issue for most men, at least the ones I knew, most of whom were students or physicians.
In the major cities it is perhaps more pervasive. Most people I know there would say it’s sleazy and would not want the risk of contracting STDs. They may visit the Reeperbahn in Hamburg as sort of a novelty, just as they would the red-light district in Amsterdam, but I don’t think prostitution has caused German women to feel the need to “put out” on the first date.
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The Germans have the right idea as usual. Presented with a society in clear terminal decline, legalise and normalise prostitution. Game is dating culture’s last hurrah, and fuck ‘em both. If she’s not a potential wife, get a whore.
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However I would like to raise the following point: many men here deride women for “going after their money” (the female evolutionary bottom line: find a provider), but it’s perfectly acceptable for the men to desire young/beautiful/fertile women over less attractive, older women (the male evolutionary bottom line: pass on your genes).
Let me make a point here: these are understandable, but not acceptable., if you have a real partner, who gives you respect.
We are not animals, but human beings, so we have to act like that.
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thehermit:
I agree with you. I was illustrating a double standard that exists within the “MRA” and “Game” spheres. Most men seem to believe they’re entitled to a “9″. Looks are the primary focus and the most valuable attribute a woman can offer these men.
The question then becomes, why do these men become so angry and jaded when these exact women use them for their money?
Evolutionary bottom line, sought out by both parties.
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“The question then becomes, why do these men become so angry and jaded when these exact women use them for their money?”
This is valid. And it is why I said in the article, “when you fish with stink bait, you catch bottom feeders.”
Men should take the hit for that. But of course the solution is to tell women pay their own way or go find a sugar daddy.
But the other point you made earlier is a fail. Yes, men want younger nubile women and women want security. It is hard wired. But women now HAVE security, or at least the ability to pursue it without a man. The things that most of them are looking for are rooted in greed, not security.
Big difference.
There’s a major step that’s missing here. Before you “pump and dump” (or substitute your preferred more respectful term), GET. A. VASECTOMY.
Condoms break. Willpower breaks. There have even been reports of women using semen deposited in condoms to impregnate themselves.
Have you ever been dishonest about your intentions? So, sometimes, are women. Don’t ruin your life for a little action.
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Re: Trolls- the new site apparently allows name poaching and socking. I do not assume a familiar handle is the same person as before the software switch.
Re: Joanna/prostitution- it’s like the difference between buying a fish in a market and catching a fish. Sometimes it’s fun to go fishing, other times it’s convenient to just purchase a fish. This comment “treating women poorly and damaging their fragile egos even further, thereby perpetuating the very cycle you wish to break” shows a remarkable ignorance of what Game is and how it is applied. The Mystery Method (which is pretty old news), for example, breaks it down into attract-build comfort-seduce. If I’m not mistaken, I believe 60% of the time is allocated for comfort building (and the goal of seduction being that it is mutual). If a certain football quarterback had spent even a few moments comfort building (with both his “date” and her c-blocking GFs) before taking her back to the restroom stall, he might have avoided the subsequent unpleasantness . Instead, he just skipped this.
Re: Game doesn’t work- Yes it does. It works very, very well and for a wide variety of purposes. It is not merely about getting laid, although many use it primarily for that. It does not require a man to operate outside his comfort zone or be dishonest to himself anymore than learning any other skill. I think that, at its core, Game is about understanding what women find attractive/respond to, and is no more disingenious than showering and shaving before a date.
It’s like teaching a man who has never caught a fish how to catch one. Roissy-esque Game is like fishing in a trout pond. It eventually gets so easy, it becomes boring. Some men tire of fishing, others seek more exotic or difficult catches. However, many aspects of Game, including Game from the Roissy-sphere, can be applied to many situations, and in fact almost all interactions with women. For example, the ability to recognize and appropriately respond to shit tests has applications far beyond just getting laid. Understanding frame control is also awesome in many interactions, and can be of tremendous benefit to men in stable relationships (LTR Game).
There’s a thread over at Citizen Renegade today that includes a lot of observations about LTR game ~ “If you’re not flirting with your wife, she may become more susceptible to other men flirting with her.” Do you think women like Joanna really don’t want their husbands flirting with her? They really don’t want him doing things that makes him more attractive in her eyes?
Re: Alphas- I think it’s important to consider that, after 4.5 million years of human selection, we all carry the genetic distillate of alphas, no matter how we act or where our comfort zone lies.
BTW, this: “Quality women (yes, we still exist) don’t go for that. ”
is the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Oh yes you do! I run Game on “quality women” constantly. Not to get laid, just for fun (and practice).
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@Joanna
You just don’t get it, do ya. You just don’t know how it feels to be useless. Of course we are not useless- as men-, but we are told so (apart from being a live ATM)
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@Joanna
You just don’t get it, do ya. You just don’t know how it feels to be useless. Of course we are not useless- as men-, but we are told so (apart from being a live ATM)
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If you take ‘Game’ to mean the body of knowledge dealing with female sexual attraction, then there’s no downside to knowing how it works, surely?
True, if you’re determined to be the Studliest Stud in all Studsville, you’re going to run into complications, but that’s true, Game or no Game.
OTOH, consider the corollary to the old line about women liking ‘nice guys’. Clearly, if you keep getting the ‘let’s just be friends’ talk, or not even that, you must be some kind of loser weirdo nut.
Hey, I can’t be the only one here who had a good chunk of life blighted by the fact I kept coming fifth out of four in the pussy-hunting Olympics. It seemed so easy on the TV!
What’s wrong with you Freak-boy?
Well, nothing says Game: Wimminz be stoopid, and if they prefer to hook up with some multi-pierced mutant over actual, literate blokes, that’s a good reason to kick the stupid cows to the kerb.
Or, to put it another way, the logic of Game leads just as clearly to MGTOW as it does to Roissy-style pussy hunting. The truth shall set you free – what you do with that freedom? That’s for you to decide, duh!
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The escort pricing schedule for one hour of “company” in my experience is as follows:
1-5 – $20 – $100 = street whore, drug problem, price negotiable
6 – $100-$200 = 40′s and/or “heavy”, almost a street whore, low class.
7 – $200-$300 = late 30′s with a decent body and OK face.
8 – $300-$500 = late 20′s/early 30′s nice body, cute face.
9 – $500-$1500 = early/mid 20′s, VERY cute, tight body and nice skin.
10 – $1500-$5000 = early 20′s to early 30′s, centerfold model perfect, high class and very skilled.
If a man can afford to pay for the best, he deserves it!
I’ve spent more on dates with users for nothing.
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Joanna July 20, 2010 at 12:01
“I don’t know what happened to you other than what you wrote here, but it sounds awful. You harbor a lot of anger,”
Joanna, have you got your jury together yet to try women who committed crimes against men? If not. Go away. I, and I believe ALL men here, are not interested in hearing from you. We have heard all the cow-shit from your fellow female trolls before.
I am not ‘angry’. I am persuing justice for myself and the TENS OF MILLIONS of other men who have had crimes committed against them and you women are NOT helping. You disgust me with your cow-shit. The suicide rate of men in divorce is about 8x that of women and you women don’t give a fuck. Well? I do. How about you read rather than write. Nothing you have to say is of interest to me. Only what you do. And what you have been told to do is to create juries to punish women who have committed crimes against men. Until then? I label you the liar and hypocrite you are.
“that does not entitle you to curse at me in a disrespectful manner”
Gents. Women are ‘entitled to murder defenceless babies in their womb, or even after they are born, but men are not entitled to speak however they like. Sure. Fuck off Joanna. I’ll talk to you, and any woman, however I like.
Joanna July 20, 2010 at 12:11
“I lived in Germany for five years and never “put out” on the first date. I dated several gentlemen there who treated me with respect. Come to think of it, they always paid, even though I offered to split.”
Gents,
LOL!! This is so funny. She must be ‘dating’ loser mangina betas or omegas! She must be REAL plain. Even the YOUNG beta guys in my office wouldn’t take a woman on a second date if she didn’t put out on the first date. One or two of the ‘nice guy gentlemen low beta or omegas’ in my office would do this. I did. The two women I dated in germany after separation I didn’t have sex with on the first date either. One was german and one was australian. I was ‘the perfect gentleman’ and paid for the day as well. Yep. Loser beta wanting to find wife 2.0. Fuck that for a joke. When I told the guys I did that that they were like “Whoa, you can’t be letting women use you like that.” I was viewed as such a pathetic failure at dating. I had NEVER dated in my life. So Mr. Truth took me under his wing and started teaching me about dating in Germany. Mr. Truth has taught me so much. I am a completely different man to the ‘nice guy gentleman’ I used to be. And rather than looking for wife 2.0 in the 40-44 bracket like I was 2 years ago I am getting my fill with the 30-35 bracket. Just fantastic. I never new life could be so good.
“at least the ones I knew, most of whom were students or physicians”
Male students often struggle through lack of money and they are generally NOT alphas. Physicians (I assume you mean doctors) are not going to tell any woman anything about what they are doing. German men know women can’t keep a secret.
“Most people I know there would say it’s sleazy and would not want the risk of contracting STDs. They may visit the Reeperbahn in Hamburg as sort of a novelty….but I don’t think prostitution has caused German women to feel the need to “put out” on the first date.”
LOL! Guys, this just gets better and better. The Reeperbahn is a seedy shithole. I went along to take a peek. No. Any man who does a whore there is looking for trouble. Just like Kings Cross in Sydney. Drugs and shit everywhere. The Reeperbahn in no way represents ‘prostitution in germany’. ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about Germany knows this. This chick may or may not live in germany but she has her head up her arse as to what prostitution in germany is about. Like ALL things german it is very well organised.
Who said ‘german women’ feel the need to put out on the first date? I didn’t. I have never touched a german woman and most of the guys I talk to don’t either. They go for the hot eastern chicks. Why have a frumpy frau when you can have a dynamite russian chick? The german women are all ‘entitled’ and guys know they are BIG trouble. Eastern chicks are there to find husbands. Period. Joannas limiting this to ‘german women’ rather than ‘women in germany’ shows she has no idea what is really going on. Eastern chicks are stealing the men in droves. Mr. Truth has told me german women are so desperate they are marrying outside the EU with the promise of an EU work permit as part of the ‘bait’. He claimed that 25% of german women are marrying foreigners now and a large part of that is from outside the EU. The official stats also show 1.7 million more women in germany than men. Who knows what the REAL number is? It has to be MUCH higher. The place is flooded with eastern chicks looking for husbands. If the women I am dating have been having trouble getting a husband then the rest have no hope. Germany now has the lowest birth rate in Europe. No more evidence needed of what is happening there. Men are refusing to have babies.
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To put it bluntly, I see a lot of misconceptions and mangina/feminist shaming attempts levied at those who support and utilize Game. Game itself is amoral. How it is applied is what matters. Some men use it for having sex with as many women as they can whereas others use it for that special snowflake they’ve have a crush on for 6 years. In either case, regardless of what you think of the practicioner’s goals, there are two major benefits that trancends getting laid or getting into a relationship:
1. Game gives men control over how they spend their energy interacting with women.
2. Game gives men the tools to qualify women.
Until now you either had “it” or you didn’t, and if you didn’t you were lost in the deep end of the pool doing your best to stay afloat hoping, praying that it’s an attractive lifeguard that pulls you out instead of the warpigs who did so for your friends.
Game is a coin with two sides. On one side it’s the pickup stuff, the gamey aspects that men use to attract women. On the other side are the more meaninful aspects (IMO) that gets mens’ heads straight and builds character, strength, confidence, and teaches men that there’s more to women than the sum of their tits, ass, and pussy.
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No Joanna. The question is why are men very dis-pleased when our WIVES of MANY YEARS, who lied to us and acted like ‘good women’, and often professed religions like christianity, and did so for MANY YEARS before revealing the lies, commit perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft and all the other women applaud and support her. THAT is the question. The young guys are not looking at the women their age and being ‘jaded’. They are listening to men like me, who were the best husbands around, who had crimes committed against them, their children kidnapped, the proceeds of their lifes work stolen, threats of incarceration, threats of stealing future income as well, their children and their love for their children used as weapons against them. They hear our stories of sinking into depression, abusing alcohol other drugs, smoking too much, and feeling suicidal…AND THEY HEAR THAT NO WOMEN GIVE A FUCK when this happens to a man. They hear 4,000 men a year commit suicide in Australia from the abuse of the FC and CSA and NO WOMEN GIVE A FUCK.
THAT is what is getting the young men jaded. The 8x suicide rate of men in divorce. The total and utter destruction of everything the men have worked for by cruel, callous, vicious and vindictive women. TO THE APPLAUSE OF YOU WOMEN. And when you women are asked to help stop this? You spit in our face and you shit on us. THAT has the young men jaded.
It’s not about fucking money AT ALL. It’s about destroying our families, our hopes, our dreams and abusing our children THAT is what is the BIG ISSUE that men have with western women now.
So. Shut up you stupid bitch. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Welmer? Why do you allow trolls like this?
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Globalman:
No need to get snippy and personal, is there?
I would think most men here want to hear what I have to say. You can’t have a “men’s rights movement” without women on board.
I only dated a few doctors there, one of whom was my partner for several years. To make a long story short I decided to leave Germany after finishing my degree there (MD) because the general attitude of the people is cold and dour. If you can actually speak the language accent-free, you lose your novelty as a foreigner, and they treat you as one of them. Also the working conditions in the US are more favorable and I can more easily work part-time here.
Most Germans look down on Eastern Europeans, especially the Polish, calling them the “Mexicans” of Germany. Generally speaking, most Germans don’t like the flood of foreigners into their county. It’s not exactly an accomplishment to bed numerous low self-esteem eastern European girls at once: girls who will accept the fact that you are sleeping around and despite the significant emotional and health risks, continue to make themselves available at your beck and call. Such women are not wife material. Hardly something worth bragging about.
Are you fluent in German to the point that Germans themselves do not notice your accent?
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Wife material? There’s no wife material at all. Why should men invest into a marriage? No reason for that.
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Just so you all know – Menareangrynow is a female troll.
I guarantee it.
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Globalman:
No need to get snippy and personal, is there? If you don’t care what I have to say, then why spend the time composing such lengthy replies to my posts?
I would think most men here want to hear what I have to say. You can’t have a “men’s rights movement” without women on board.
I only dated a few doctors there, one of whom was my partner for several years (none of which were “manginas”). To make a long story short, I decided to leave Germany after finishing my degree there because the general attitude of the people is cold and dour. If you can actually speak the language accent-free, you lose your novelty as a foreigner, and they treat you as one of them. It is a very cold society. The working conditions in the US are more favorable and I can more easily work part-time here, which is more conducive to raising a family.
Most Germans look down on eastern Europeans, especially the Polish, calling them the “Mexicans” of Germany. Generally speaking, most Germans don’t like the flood of foreigners into their country. It’s not exactly an accomplishment to bed numerous low self-esteem eastern European girls: girls who will accept the fact that you are sleeping around and despite the significant emotional and health risks, will continue to make themselves available at your beck and call. Hardly something worth bragging about. Many of these women come from very poor backgrounds and once they make it into Germany, they are determined to stay there. Sadly this means they will lower and cheapen themselves by staying with a man who won’t commit to them. I feel sorry for them, but it isn’t my problem: everyone has to take responsibility for his or her actions.
Which brings me to my next point: in what way am I responsible for the actions of my entire gender? As I said, I agree with you that most women are superficial, gold-diggers etc. However, there are enough of us who are not.
The way I contribute is by making my partner my #1 priority and making sure he is happy.
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Joanna said: “Most Germans look down on Eastern Europeans, especially the Polish, calling them the “Mexicans” of Germany. Generally speaking, most Germans don’t like the flood of foreigners into their county. It’s not exactly an accomplishment to bed numerous low self-esteem eastern European girls at once: girls who will accept the fact that you are sleeping around and despite the significant emotional and health risks, continue to make themselves available at your beck and call. Such women are not wife material. Hardly something worth bragging about.”
Well, now that Joanna has stooped to the status-based bigotry that we usually see in feminists and hypergamous females, she has truly shown herself as a troll. The comment about “Mexicans” of Europe is really slimy; it shows her racism and bigotry in bright colors.
Take your bigotry elsewhere, Joanna.
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Malcolm: I myself am not bigoted if I relay the opinion of another person or group of people as a neutral statement. I simply made a statement pertaining to how the German people in general view the Polish. Since I am fluent in the language and speak accent-free, I am able to gain an insight into their culture that foreigners who might come to Germany for work or travel will most likely not have access to.
I am of Polish ancestry myself. My grandfather immigrated from Poland to the US when he was a child and his family was so poor, he went deaf in one ear because they couldn’t afford antibiotics. He had eight siblings, all of whom pooled their savings to send him to medical school.
I give up. I thought this might be an interesting forum since I advocate the rights of men, but this place is too hostile for me to want to invest my time here anymore.
My partner told me about this forum, since he’s starting to learn about the men’s rights movement, but you just lost a supporter in me. If you all remain so jaded and hostile, all you’ll have left is a self-fulfilled prophecy, a life of emptiness without love.
Your movement will go nowhere if you aren’t more hospitable to women interested in your cause. This is exactly what “they” want, to pit us against each other so they can control us. You just let them get away with that.
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“I would think most men here want to hear what I have to say.”
I think you’d be wrong. We’ve been listening to voices like yours for the past 40 years, and I doubt you have anything to say we haven’t heard before, ad nauseum. I, for one, really don’t care what you have to say, other than to use it as illustrative grist for others reading this thread. Your tediously predictable admonitions and shaming language have pretty much sucked all the air out of the room.
“You can’t have a “men’s rights movement” without women on board.”
Really? Why not? MGTOW seems like they’ve made real progress and grown substantially without “women on board”. Do you really think that Game/PUA needs “women on board”, or do you believe that Game isn’t part of the men’s rights movement? Please explain to us why you think we need women on board. For what?
I tried for far too many years to dialog with women, to work with them in a collaborative fashion to solve clear problems. Women, as a group, convinced me that such efforts are a complete waste of time. Now I work to 1) de-fund them (wherever women are overrepresented), primarily by setting-up budget conflicts where at least one feminist group will lose big-time, and 2) to get them fired (it’s EZ to lay the foundational elements to facilitate their termination. IOW- give their boss a reason to do what you would like to see happen).
“Such women are not wife material.” Oh boo-fucking-hoo. Are you actually stupid enough to think that GM, or even most men on the site, WANT a wife? Gawd.
How would you know what men feel is worth bragging about? Are you so self-absorbed that you think anyone here cares about your validation? I hope to visit Germany again soon. Perhaps GM can show me around the FKKs (frei korper klubs/kulture- I looooove that acronym). FWIW- I’m fluent enough in German that Germans think I’m Czech. Or Dutch.
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Originally I had a problem with the concept of game. But now I think game is great because it re-empowers men. It gives men the upper hand. It turns the tables on feminism and if women don’t like it they can always settle for a beta. Men need to get out of the trap of allowing women to define acceptable masculinity. Women have no say in the matter. Men, prove to yourself that you are the superior sex by standing up to women, developing game, speaking your mind, refusing to be politically correct and most of all respecting yourself, respecting others and demanding respect from others. When men refuse to place women on pedestals they line up for your services.
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@ZenCo.
“Just so you all know – Menareangrynow is a female troll.
I guarantee it.”
lol. Do I sound like a female? And even if I was, so what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry_gzPL_tG0
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Joanna July 20, 2010 at 14:45
“No need to get snippy and personal, is there?”
LOL!! I am not getting personal. You are just a bitch who is a liar and a hypocrite. Nothing personal.
“I would think most men here want to hear what I have to say. You can’t have a “men’s rights movement” without women on board.”
You would think wrong. Men do NOT want to hear what women have to say. And men must remove ALL women from the men’s rights movement. We don’t WANT or NEED bitches like you. Now. You have been told to go organise your juries to punish women who have committed crimes by men. Until you have done that? Shut up. ‘Equality before the law’ is coming. I have no interest in hearing from women until then. You western women are stupid. You flatter yourself if you think you have something to offer. You don’t.
Joanna July 20, 2010 at 14:45
“It’s not exactly an accomplishment to bed numerous low self-esteem eastern European girls at once: girls who will accept the fact that you are sleeping around and despite the significant emotional and health risks, continue to make themselves available at your beck and call. Such women are not wife material. Hardly something worth bragging about.”
Gents. Here is just how women think. They HATE on women who give men what they want. The ‘eastern european women’ are ‘low self-esteem eastern European girls’. You like that little dig at their fellow women? ALL hot women have really low self esteem. That’s the nature of women. ‘Such women are not wife material.’ Oh…Joanna is ‘wife material’ and eastern european women are not? Sure….And Joanna is so fucking stupid she has not noticed that men don’t want bitches like her as ‘wives’ yet. She did not have a ‘boyfriend’. She had a ‘partner’. Typical femnazi crap. Let her ‘partner’ be a woman. Let her ‘partner be the vibrator and cats’. Any man who settles for ‘he is my partner’ and allows a woman to elevate herself unjustifiably to the same level as the man is a mangina. Women are NOT a mans ‘partner’. A women is a mans WOMAN. His girlfriend, or ladyfriend, or lover. But to a MAN? A woman can never, ever, be a ‘partner’. Partner implies ‘equal’. Women are not equal to men. Men are better than women and there is a book that proves this.
‘Hardly worth something bragging about?’ I am not ‘bragging’. I am relating my experience. Eastern european women throw themselves at me hoping to land a husband. It’s real simple. Waaa, waaa, waaa. Women like Joanna HATE on women who give men like me what we want.
News flash Joanna. I would take a poor honest russian woman over a western woman docter EVERY time. I have found eastern european women to be honest and feminine and they will give me what I ask for. Western women offer me NOTHING I WANT. You think your ‘medical degree’ has currency with a MAN? Fuck you are stupid. Intelligent men know that ‘women doctors’ quit at a rate of about 60% in the first 10 years. Men know that they would be stupid to marry a ‘woman doctor’ and even more stupid to believe her lies about how ‘I will go back after the babies arrive’. You don’t. Women ‘doctors’ have a FAR GREAT liability value than a poor russian woman because the woman doctor can talk stupid hubby into a fucking big mortgage and then quit work. He will then be turned into a slave by the state. The poor russian woman will require that the man live more modestly in the first place. I would rather live very modestly with a beautiful russian woman who gives me everything I want than with a western entitlement bitch like you obviously are with your ‘medical degree’ that you won’t use. All you did was keep a man who would serve his community as a doctor for 40-45 years out of a job. Women like you are directly responsible for the massive increase in deaths of black women and children in africa because you leave the medical profession at such high rates. Male doctors are then poached from those poor countries. Well done. You accomplice to genocide of black women and children.
ALL intelligent men know marrying ‘professional’ women is stupid in the extreme. When you marry a very poor woman she has a very good reason to stay with you. She knows what it is to be poor. And the idea these women are somehow lesser than you western women? Newsflash. ALL the eastern women I have dated have been better in bed than my ex was as a young woman. Western women don’t even know how to fuck properly. Eastern european women must have schools for this. They are really good in bed.
“Are you fluent in German to the point that Germans themselves do not notice your accent?”
LOL!! Of course not. I speak ‘kinder deutsche’. Germans accept me around because of who I am.
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Joanna: Saying “I am of Polish ancestry myself” rings about as true as someone who says “I’m not a bigot. I have Mexican friends and employees.” As far as leaving the forum, don’t let the door hit you. We don’t need you. Men, for FAR too long, have sought the help and understanding of women, who in turn feigned both and delivered neither. This site exists for the benefit of men like your “partner”, not for women of any kind. Do women come here? Sure. Is this site for women? NOT AT ALL.
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Indifference fellas, Joanna is one of those that craves indifference. Give her some of that indifference. Not some of it,all of it.
Game is a tool to handle sexual needs and maybe even more social interactions with women. I do not fault a man that uses game. I do think all men should be aware of game and have enough understanding to teach a young pussy whipable young man some. I also have no fault words for a man that chooses celibacy. Men need to be free and in control of their lives.
Now some guys don’t even like the subject of game. Sometimes you gotta give it up to help a young guy through the tough times. Now show them bitches some indifference!
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@ anonymous
“menareangrynow is obviously a woman. Note the ‘male’ avatar when most folks here don’t bother with avatars at all.
She’s thinking ‘I don’t want anyone to know I’m a woman so I’m going to be as ‘excessively male’ as possible.’ ”
What I said applies to ZenCo. applies to you as well. Even if I was female, so bloody what? You all act is if that is some kind of crime. The reason I have this avatar, is that it’s always been my symbol in the MRM. It’s even on my YouTube page:
http://www.youtube.com/user/menareangrynow
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Which brings me to my next point: in what way am I responsible for the actions of my entire gender? As I said, I agree with you that most women are superficial, gold-diggers etc. However, there are enough of us who are not.
—————————————
who is asking you to be “responsible” for your gender, the purpose of this site is to talk to each other about the cultural devastation brought about by women. The reason we “blame” you is because women love the existential freedom and power that no-fault divorce and the welfare state give them.Even women who are on the sidelines love these things because they benefit from them. In fact, I find it rather hilarious to words “responsible” and “women” in the same sentence. Im sure that it is possible that good women are out there, but the purpose of our anger is like that of capitalist in a latin american country that is being threatened by communist takeover. If your factory can be taken over by Marxists at any point and liquidated, why build anything of value? Similarly, if your family can be taken from you at any point for any reason, why build a family? Life has always had setbacks, which really are ok. Im sure that there are men’s rights activists that are jackasses and they are probably childless men-hating lesbian marxists that I could get along with AS PEOPLE. But men have no property rights to their children now, that is a problem for everyone.
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Which brings me to my next point: in what way am I responsible for the actions of my entire gender? As I said, I agree with you that most women are superficial, gold-diggers etc. However, there are enough of us who are not.
—————————————
who is asking you to be “responsible” for your gender, the purpose of this site is to talk to each other about the cultural devastation brought about by women. The reason we “blame” you is because women love the existential freedom and power that no-fault divorce and the welfare state give them.Even women who are on the sidelines love these things because they benefit from them. In fact, I find it rather hilarious to words “responsible” and “women” in the same sentence. Im sure that it is possible that good women are out there, but the purpose of our anger is like that of capitalist in a latin american country that is being threatened by communist takeover. If your factory can be taken over by Marxists at any point and liquidated, why build anything of value? Similarly, if your family can be taken from you at any point for any reason, why build a family? Life has always had setbacks, which really are ok. Im sure that there are men’s rights activists that are jackasses and they are probably childless men-hating lesbian marxists that I could get along with AS PEOPLE. But men have no property rights to their children now, that is a problem for everyone.
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@Paul Elam
“Second, I reject entirely almost every point you made. I just don’t think I can explain it any better than has already been explained to you.”
Did I misunderstand what you meant then? If so, then maybe it would be worth trying to explain it to me again. In addition, I’d be curious to hear what few points I made, that you actually do agree with. It would certainly help for communicative purposes, if we were more on the same page.
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GM- “the woman doctor can talk stupid hubby into a fucking big mortgage and then quit work. He will then be turned into a slave by the state.”
I’ve seen this so many times it’s unreal. Same for female attorneys. I believe the AVERAGE career length is ~10 years. Some women actually work in their field for the full 40-yr gig, which means several women quit much sooner than 10 years. I’d guess the mode is closer to 6. They quit before the ink has dried on that jumbo mortgage.
Note to J- I don’t presume to speak for GM here, but I usually get the impression that his replies are written for the benefit of other men on this site, not in response to a woman’s post.
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Joanna July 20, 2010 at 15:17
“but you just lost a supporter in me.”
Good! Now fuck off. And take your mangina beta ‘partner’ with you. If he accepts you calling him your ‘partner’ he is part of the problem and not part of the solution. We don’t want maginas like him around either. This is a MENS rights movement. Not a girlie-mens rights movement.
“Your movement will go nowhere if you aren’t more hospitable to women interested in your cause”
Gents, this is how women over-rate themselves. They think they have influence on mens issues. They don’t. Joanna has obviously not yet read ANY of my posts as to how my forthcoming book will give all men in common law lands the opportunity to divorce the wife and state, refuse to pay income taxes, alimony and child support, refuse the jurisdiction of the courts, and walk away from any pretended obligations to the ‘wife and children’. Just like I did. And nope. NO WOMAN helped me achieve that. So? I say we make the Mens RIGHTS movement as IN-HOSPITABLE to women as possible. You ALL know my position. NO VOICE AT ALL. We don’t need it and I certainly do not want to listen to more whining women.
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@SisterY
“GET. A. VASECTOMY.”
For most guys this is unthinkable. The phrase ‘the cure is worse than the poison’ comes to mind. Speaking personally, I’d rather not have surgical equipment taken to my genitals, where I could avoid it.
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@globalman
“This is a MENS rights movement. Not a girlie-mens rights movement.”
So ‘effeminate’(for lack of a better term) men don’t get our help, just because they don’t meet your personal ideal of what masculinity is?
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@joanna
“but you just lost a supporter in me.”
Sorry to hear that. I hope you don’t let the bad experiences on here jade your view of the men’s movement. Welmer, the site’s owner has taken time to explain before that the Spearhead isn’t about men’s rights, but about more general subjects. The highly political segments of the movement, like Men’s News Daily and its assorted following for example, are far less uncouth and not hostile towards women at all. I hope you’ll try your luck there, before you give up on us.
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@Joanna
“I give up. I thought this might be an interesting forum since I advocate the rights of men, but this place is too hostile for me to want to invest my time here anymore.”
Sometimes I feel the same too, so I flip-flop on being an active participant in the discussions here and ignoring the site. =)
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Paradoxotaur July 20, 2010 at 15:38
“Note to J- I don’t presume to speak for GM here, but I usually get the impression that his replies are written for the benefit of other men on this site, not in response to a woman’s post.”
Paradox, of course my posts are written for the men reading. Why the fuck would I respond to a woman!?!? LOL!! I think it’s great when a woman like Nazi-J is so stupid she thinks I am talking to her. It’s great to string it out a bit and re-iterate so many important points for the young men to get such as the 8x suicide rate of men in divorce. And what is nazi-Js response when presented with the indifference that women have shown for 40 years to the destruction of mens families and this high suicide rate? She is ‘all upset and offended’ and we have ‘lost a supporter’ because we didn’t speak nice. Good fucking riddance.
But EVERY young man who reads this blog today will notice that when presented with the evidence of what REALLY matters to men and when a man put it to her that she could assist by holding women responsible for their crimes using courts and juries what did nazi-J do? Try and manipulate and then run away. Every young men here should take a good long look at her reaction because it is standard. Women really don’t care about men dying. They don’t care about mens lives being destroyed. What did my eastern european women freinds do when I told them my story? Mostly they kissed me, hugged me, and said “You poor man, I am so sorry you felt like you had to dis-own your children. Your wife was obviously a complete bitch.” I must have had about 10 women I didn’t even know approach me and say that. These were apparently ‘friends of friends’ who were told my story and just wanted to wish me well. Eastern european women want some good husbands to marry and know you have to treat men well to get such. Western nazis like J see a husband as an ‘entitlement’.
For those who have not heard this because it was in the forums? This is what one of these ‘low self esteem’ czech girls are like. My fav#4 ask to see pictures of my family. We spent about two hours going through them as we jumped back and forth. At the end she said words to the effect that she hopes that one day I will be with my kids again as I was obviously a loving father. I told her words to the effect “I have told you. I will never do that. I take it as dis-respectful that you say that. You just insulted me. Don’t do it again.” And I said it in a very stern voice. She apologised immediately, thought for about ten seconds and then said words to the effect: “I can see you loved your children and that you are good father. I will pray that one day God may touch your heart and He may give you the strengh to bring your children before you.” She then hugged me and kissed me and looked deep into my eyes, so intimately, with such love and tenderness I had never known from my wife. This is a woman who ‘would not make a good wife’.
Fuck off nazi-J. I have not met an eastern woman who would not make a better wife than the one I had for 18 years. They are ALL better people because they have hearts.
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@globalman
“You would think wrong. Men do NOT want to hear what women have to say. ”
Speak for yourself.
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Yes.
menareangrynow is a feminist troll. She’s trying to hard.
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Don’t date and don’t make passes at women? Terrible advice, unless you’re a natural alpha.
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Ha. I said I screw prostitutes until it is time for a wife… and so many others said the same sort of thing, interesting. It seems to me, every time a ‘game’ article is posted on this site, the same thing will be said.
I think it is true, the man who is in no mood for a wife at this point, who bangs a prostitute, does far less social harm than the ‘game’ guy who is just a user, liar, and playing with women’s heart strings. His actions are more likely to create a group of angry jaded women pushing for more DV laws and misandrist garbage.
To be ‘f8cked and chucked’ by a lothario, is to be at risk of turning into a jezebel reading harpie. I think game adds to men’s problems.
If you want a female body to dump a load in, how about going to the designated public commercial vagina, instead of lying to my innocent daughter who is just trying to maybe meet a potential husband? You are the problem guys, admit it, and I don’t think Spearhead should lower itself to posting game articles.
These series of game article authors, are a remnant from last year, the early days of the spearhead, the spearhead has matured into a great political commentary site, yet still, these hangovers appear, these debased, embarrassing, trashy ‘game’ articles. If it doesn’t stop soon I’m leaving and starting a game free spearhead competitor.
Really, I check Spearhead daily, and especially with Welmer on vacation, it’s always disappointing to get my hopes up thinking there will be some good commentary, only to find utter trash like this article. Game articles belong on spam websites that charge 2 dollars on paypal for a pdf…. it’s just embarassing.
I’d rather my son use the designated public commercial pussy than contribute to creating more jaded used up sluts in the civilian population. It’s a mark of a civilized man to only bed potential wife material in good faith in the civilian sector, and then bust a nut in the designated ‘oldest profession’ if he has sexual urges not being met by his current situation. To set yourself up as a lothario who practices fraud, to essentially become a sexual predator, is not civilized, not helping men, women, or children, families, or society at large, and you can tell by some of these comments, many men only do it out of spite.
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Joanna July 20, 2010 at 15:17
“I give up. I thought this might be an interesting forum since I advocate the rights of men, but this place is too hostile for me to want to invest my time here anymore.”
Young men take note. Women like nazi-J will call themselves ‘partners’ to men. They will claim ‘equality’. Well? Where where the women at the battle of the Somme? Where were the women in Normandy? Where were the women at Gallipoli? I’ll tell you where. Home safe in the houses men were dying to protect. That’s where. Hostile? An internet forum? Compared to trench warefare? That’s your ‘partner’. That’s your ‘equal’. If you young men allow a woman to call you a ‘partner’ you are a fucking whimp and you dishonour those men who earned the title of MEN before you. The men who died for you not even knowing who you are. Men like my step-grandfather who fought his way clear across the pacific and taught me much as a young man.
Nazi-J was told how she could invest her time to great effect to help men. Creating juries and holding women accountable for the crimes they are committing against men. Will she do it? No. She won’t. I’ve asked thousands of women to do that and got 6 so far in the entire fucking world. Men have created courts and run juries and punished men who committed crimes against women since time immemorial. It has always been a crime to kill a woman because of the loss of reproduction capacity. Now? In the 21st century? Will women hold women accountable for the crimes they are committing against men? NO. They won’t. Your ‘equals’? Your ‘partners’? They don’t give a fuck at the 8x suicide rate in divorce. And no young man who reads this should forget this cold, hard fact.
My many thanks to nazi-J for provding the opportunity to make sure all the lurkers get this message once more.
I will use stupid women like nazi-J to reiterate these points over and over again until young men really get just how despised they are by their western women now. They have a right to know.
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This thread is developing in a nice way – interesting read – the MRM is growing balls – we don’t need women at all – men made civilisation -women came along as baggage!
Nice!
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Effeminate men are the feminist ideal of what men should be. You being an igornant feminist wouldn’t understand that. Effeminate men have feminist groups and gay groups, they can go ask them for help, if they don’t already.
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That said, I do really think it is time The Spearhead ‘f-cked and chucked’ these annoying game article writers, kick them to curb Welmer, they are a drain on the good ship Spearhead. As I said, they are an anachronism from the days when The Spearhead was finding its sea legs. I’d like to see the cancer cut out.
Also too, you need an ability for people to reply to comments, with their replies set in a margin to the right directly under the original comments. I should not have to use the ‘find’ function on my browser just to read replies to people’s posts in a sea of dozens or hundreds of comments, this is 15 years into the internet and I’m fishing through garbage to read what I want to read in a comment thread, it is just not up to standard. I know you’re going through wordpress changes at the moment, maybe that is the culprit, but I seriously think you should have a reply function with margin indents.
Game, alpha/beta dichotomies, all this crap, it’s garbage. Go shill it on a two dollar pdf spam website like most of the rest of them do. Get out of my face with all that old BS.
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@MGTOW
“Therefore, I fail to see why some men keep insisting that game/PUA is the antithesis of men’s rights, when game is supposed to give men control, power and leverage when it comes to fraternizing with women. Perhaps it’s an underlying moral/religious aversion to a hedonistic lifestyle?”
Antithesis is a stronger word than necessary; but, men’s rights is a specific political and philosophical subject that shares nothing in common with what you all call ‘game’, after all, dating advice is irrelevant to any political subject, let alone a civil rights movement, unless you want to argue that sex is a right that people should have, in which case you’d run into many serious ethical problems…
For me it has nothing to do with my lifestyle, and everything to do with the fact that I find dating advice to be useless and entirely inane and juvenile to any serious discussion on getting equal rights for men.
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Handing out white feathers to young boys.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 15:45
“So ‘effeminate’(for lack of a better term) men don’t get our help, just because they don’t meet your personal ideal of what masculinity is?”
No. Manginas, in my opinion, don’t get to participate until they strap a pair of balls on and decide to actually be a MAN again. There is no ‘help’ that can be given a man who wants to be a girlie-man by which, in the context, it was clear I meant a mangina who will do something that will allow a woman to call him a ‘partner’. They have no place in Mens Rights as far as I am concerned since they are not a MAN. Having a penis does not make one a MAN. Men earn MANhood. And a part of being a MAN is not to be a mangina. Men are well advised to denounce manginas as NOT MEN and NOT allow manginas a voice in the MRA area. Why would you want to hear what a mangina has to say? You’ve heard enough women say the same shit already. If you want to hear what a mangina has to say, go to feministing, there are plenty of them over there.
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@slicer
“You being an igornant feminist wouldn’t understand that.”
I’m not a feminist. I don’t know why you think I am.
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@Slicer
“Effeminate men have feminist groups and gay groups, they can go ask them for help, if they don’t already.”
And how will these groups make it so effeminate men are not drafted, and make it so they can actually get help at a domestic abuse shelter, and are protected from genital mutilation, and are given the same educational opportunities, as well as many other areas in which men, all men, whether ubermasculine or not, are discriminated in.
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@Slicer
“menareangrynow is a feminist troll. She’s trying to hard.”
I’m not a feminist, I’m not a troll, and nor am I female; but, so what if I was? Would that automatically invalidate everything I’ve said so far?
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:11
“I find dating advice to be useless and entirely inane and juvenile to any serious discussion on getting equal rights for men.”
Men already have all the rights they need. I do. Any man who does not is simply ignorant of rights and how they work. As I was. As for ‘dating advice’. Dude. I was 44 when I went on my first ‘date’. I never dated as a kid since all the gfs I had were long term friends who turned into gfs. I knew my ex since I was 12. With the complete lack of male role models? All those young lurkers out there need to be told a thing or two, just like I needed Mr. Truth to tell me a thing or two. I was a fast learner. But when I compare myself now to some of my colleagues in their 40s and 50s. I am a novice. One guy, in his 50s, pulls chicks as hot as I do and tells me that for him this is pretty middle of the road. We were chatting over lunch one day and I asked him the normal question of how he gets by when he’s got a week or two without scoring with some hot chick. He put down his knife and fork in disgust and said ‘A single man going without sex for a week or two? Are you crazy? That’s for married men. If I can’t get laid by one of my gfs I call up my ex wife and she will come over and do me. She’s desperate as hell, You think any man will touch her?” I was astounded. I was like “Your ex-wife will come over and have sex with you just because you call her up and tell her to?” He was astonished I thought it was strange. He was like “Sure, why not? I had to put up with her all through marriage, she’s better than nothing.” I just laughed hysterically. When I thought about it, it made complete sense. LOL!!
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@Ragnar
“the MRM is growing balls – we don’t need women at all – men made civilisation -women came along as baggage!”
I’d like to see you say that to Cathy Young’s or Cristina Sommer’s face directly. Those two women have done more for the MRM than anyone here, and your brazen dismissal of the worth of women is disgusting. If feminists were saying the same things about men that you and a lot of other commentators here are saying, don’t tell me for one second that you or anyone else wouldn’t jump on them for it.
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@gloabalman
“Men already have all the rights they need.”
So we don’t need the right to draft exemption, or the right to access domestic abuse shelters, or the right to be protected from genital mutilation, or the right to privacy when we are raped? It’s fine if we continue to live in a society where women enjoy these privileges, while men are denied parity with women?
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@globalman
“No. Manginas, in my opinion, don’t get to participate until they strap a pair of balls on and decide to actually be a MAN again.”
What does this even mean? I’m serious, what does a statement like this even mean? It’s just pure shaming language on men for not acting the way you want them to. It’s nothing but vitriolic saber rattling.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:20
“effeminate men”
Dude. It sure sounds like your id is hijacked. I made it clear I was talking about maginas from the context and used ‘girlie-men’ in the mangina context. You have changed that to ‘effeminate men’ and lead the discussion astray and that is what women do endlessly.
If a man is a mangina? Fuck him. Let him get drafted. We could do with a few less manginas. The FIRST step for a mangina is to strap some balls on and be a MAN again. No-one can ‘help’ him do that. He does not need us or anyone else to do that. All he needs to do is to say “Fuck this stupid feminist shit. I’m not putting up with it any more”. ALL men are intelligent enough to know feminism is a pack of lies. Manginas accept that it is a pack of lies and betray men in their weak willed efforts to get pussy. We owe them nothing until they reject the lies of feminism and take their balls back out of their wives purses and strap them on. The MOST I would suggest ANY MAN should say to a mangina is “Read the book Men are Better Than Women by Dick Masterson”. If he will not spend the US20 to buy that book and read it for his own education and his own benefit? Fuck him. He’s useless. He will not invest in himself.
All young men should read that book. Indeed ALL men should read that book. I learned a great deal from it at 44. I had NO IDEA that women were like Dick put so clearly. I keep that book by my bedside table and read bits and pieces every week. Dick is a fucking GENIUS of the first order if you understand what he is telling you. I have no idea why he is not a leading light here. He should be. I think Dick did ALL men a great service writing that book and running his website http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com. All men KNOW they are better than women. No MAN ever, ever, ever conceded the point ‘men and women are equal’. I have NEVER in my life conceded that point because I know it to be a lie. One easy way to spot a mangina is that he will say ‘feminism is about equality’. And he will argue that men and women are somehow ‘equal’. That makes him a knowing liar, hypocrite and traitor. And he should be treated as such. Not ‘helped’. And he should certainly have NO VOICE as he will betray men to get laid.
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@globalman
“You have changed that to ‘effeminate men’ and lead the discussion astray and that is what women do endlessly.”
If you think I misunderstood you, than please explain your actual position to me, so we are on the same page. That aside, your stereotyping of women is nothing short of bigoted and ridiculous.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:31
“So we don’t need the right to draft exemption, or the right to access domestic abuse shelters, or the right to be protected from genital mutilation, or the right to privacy when we are raped? It’s fine if we continue to live in a society where women enjoy these privileges, while men are denied parity with women?”
You are talking suspiciously like a woman because I have covered all this ground in this place before. If you are MAAN you will have read what I have written. If you are a woman, you will have not. No. Men do not have a ‘right’ to ‘draft exemption’. They have a right to say ‘no’ to being drafted. That is not an ‘exeption’. No. Men do not have a ‘right to access domestic abuse shelters’. What the fuck are you talking about. Men have a RIGHT to bring to common law trial those who commit crimes against them, includling their wife. What the fuck do you want an ‘abuse shelter for’? That’s for wimminz lying about domestic abuse. Not for men. Right to privacy when men are raped? What for? There is no stigma to being the victim of a crime. Women do not enjoy these privileges as ‘rights’, they enjoy them as privileges. And if you don’t know the difference I’m real suspicious. What you have written indicates you don’t know what rights are. How about you go look them up? Your legal system does NOT grant rights. It grants privilges which can be taken away by the state. The ONLY entity that can claim a right for a man is the man himself. No-one can tell a man what his RIGHTS are. He claims his rights for himself. I have written extensively on this. I have suggested that any man who claims to be a Mens RIGHTS Activist or interested in Mens RIGHTS would do well to first educate himself on what RIGHTS are and how a man claims them. Seems you have not even done that. And you call yourself a MAN? Men educate themselves as an obligation to invest in themselves and their future. Children ask the teacher to spoonfeed them information. Which are you?
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Globalman: “My fav#4 ask to see pictures of my family. We spent about two hours going through them as we jumped back and forth. At the end she said words to the effect that she hopes that one day I will be with my kids again as I was obviously a loving father. I told her words to the effect “I have told you. I will never do that. I take it as dis-respectful that you say that. You just insulted me. Don’t do it again.”
Yeah, because “real men” abandon their children. You need to see a therapist, stat.
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If feminists were saying the same things about men that you and a lot of other commentators here are saying, don’t tell me for one second that you or anyone else wouldn’t jump on them for it.
———————————–
feminists have been spewing male hatred since at least the 1960s and have gotten the pussy pass for it for nearly 50 years. Anyone who opposes it has been either sexist, a virgin, a chauvinist, stuck in the past or worse.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:27
“I’d like to see you say that to Cathy Young’s or Cristina Sommer’s face directly. Those two women have done more for the MRM than anyone here”
Bullshit. The MAN who has done the MOST for the MRM is ME. Period. All that has to happen now is for men to educate themselves. No other man has put all the pieces together to deny the jurisdiction of the FC and prove it works. Now, LOTS of men did LOTS of work before me that I piggybacked on. And LOTS of men are working REAL HARD outside MRM. But the man who put together the remedy and provide it for MRAs/MRMs was me.
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@gloabalman
“If a man is a mangina? Fuck him. Let him get drafted. We could do with a few less manginas. The FIRST step for a mangina is to strap some balls on and be a MAN again.”
As an MRA, my first duty is to protect men. I don’t care who they are, I don’t care what they believe, men don’t don’t deserve to be shot. All our lives matter. I am absolutely reviled by what you have said.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:46
“If you think I misunderstood you, than please explain your actual position to me, so we are on the same page.”
Yep…troll….a woman. A man would scroll up and read what I wrote. A woman will attention whore and ask for an explaination. My position is clear from what I wrote. MAAN will not be happy you are trolling using his name. Typical women.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:52
“As an MRA, my first duty is to protect men.”
Sweetie. Stop trolling. Maginas are not MEN by definition. Manginas are treacherous traitors.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 16:52
“As an MRA, my first duty is to protect men.”
Gentlemen. As MRAs? It is NOT your first duty to protect men. Your FIRST duty is to educate yourself as to your rights, how to claim them, exercise them and defend them. You can not protect anyone else until you can protect yourself. You can not contribute to ‘Mens Rights’ until you know what RIGHTS are, how to claim, exercise and defend them. Period. Anything else is pointless. MAANs id seems to be being used to troll by a woman. If MAAN actually posted shit like this I’d be very surprised.
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Is this original to you, sir? If so, may I use it? How should it be attributed?
Thanks.
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menareangrynow
You know what you are full of shit. You know damn well what you are doing.
This guy here fellas is a mangina or some bitch trying pass them selves off as a man. What the asshole is trying to do is shut down male dicussion. This has been going on for years. It ends today. I don’t get Globalman on this common law stuff in the USA. (the law here is deadly) But I will say he is absolutely right on going after whiteknites and manginas. Also he is right on his and my views on women,they don’t give a damn about anything but themselves and their needs and wants. Woman will not and are not going to participate in ending misandry. No need to play nice to the cunts. Don’t attack the woman just show them indifference and don’t take even the slitest bet of shit any cunt.
Now for the dumb ass dogging game as making women have bad feelings for men. Fuck you stupid ass. Who do you think you talking to? We are family men here. We don’t need some wanna be ruling elite jack ass talking to us like we don’t how the world works (and advising Welmer on how to run his site). A woman can justify killing a child. People like that do not deserve to live in peace and security. They deserve to know the truth. One more thing, if women were so worthy of honor and respect game wouldn’t even work.
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And, Menareangrynow is still a woman trying to pass herself off as a man.
What a liar, and therefore, a cheat.
I can spot 10 x out of 10 women’s words and thoughts compared to a man’s. Even a gay man’s words.
The question is: Why lie?
You will be discovered so why do it?
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I’d like to see you say that to Cathy Young’s or Cristina Sommer’s face directly. Those two women have done more for the MRM than anyone here, and your brazen dismissal of the worth of women is disgusting.
Yesterday i ‘ve found an interview with CHS and another lesbian feminist and i was thinking if she’s really a big ally of men in general.She considers herself a feminist, but there’s no such a thing as “good feminism”
Cathy Young is another story. She seems to be a real one.
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@glabalman
“Bullshit. The MAN who has done the MOST for the MRM is ME. Period.”
HAHAHAHAHA. Where were you at the male studies conference? Where are you’re articles in respected journals and magazines that have supported the men’s movement? Have you put your own reputation on the line for the movement? All these things were done by Cristina Sommers and Cathy Young for years. Do I really have to go farther into detail? What about Warren Ferrell, and Marty Nemko? I know Paul Elam has worked tirelessly over the last year for Men’s News Daily and has organized several petitions and other forms of activism. What have you done?
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@gloabalman
“Maginas are not MEN by definition.”
You contemptuous bastard, of course they are men. It’s not hard to be a man, all it takes is to be post-pubescent male. That’s the actual definition.
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See this guys? Menareangrynow really has her knickers in a twist now.
Goodbye Menareangrynow – Back to Feministing for you.
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menareangrynow July 20, 2010 at 17:10
“What have you done?”
I have, on the back of brilliant work by many men, developed the remedy to end feminism and educate men on their rights. I have proven that ANY man in the former british empire lands can divorce his wife/state, refuse to pay income taxes, refuse to pay alimony or child support. Walk away from all these ‘pretended obligations’. Refuse the jurisdiction of the family court and the entire ‘legal system’, rescind his consent to be governed and go about his life in peace. And I did it in 18 months. If all these other men are so ‘bright’ and worked so ‘hard’ how come I could achieve, working virtually alone, what no other group of men has achieved before me? I’ll tell you why. Because I am the honest one and I am not guided by a subverted agenda like the likes of Glen Sacks. That’s why. Everything men need to know is linked here: http://www.the-spearhead.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42
If men refuse to educate themselves? They deserve their slavery. ALL guvment is by consent. And every man has the right to rescind that consent. This is proven. ALL feminism emminated from ‘guvment’ and can be lawfully ignored.
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menareangry:….you really are coming off like a mangina.
You shame, you question in circular arguments like my ex-wife; it sends shivers down my spine how little you have to say, but you keep posting and asking tiny questions that require massive answers. If you’re not a woman…you might as well be one.
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ZenCo. July 20, 2010 at 17:22
Yep…some bitch decided to use his id to troll. Welmer need to make sure this section needs loging in too so that trolls can not pretend to be someone else.
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greyghost July 20, 2010 at 17:06
“I don’t get Globalman on this common law stuff in the USA.”
Then I recommend you educate yourself. I put a post here http://www.the-spearhead.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1696&hilit=+blacks
Please note this:
6.5 As concerns its force and authority in the United States, the phrase designates that portion of the common law of england (including such acts of parliament as were applicable) which has been adopted and was in force here at the time of the Revolution. This, so far as it has not been expressly abrogated, is recognised as an organic part ofthe jurisprudence of the united states.
Common law exists in all states except LA(french law). This is from blacks law dictionary second edition. All those men who think common law does not exist in the US are willfully ignorant. I have put evidence of this into this place so many times? I’m getting real fed up with the willfull ignorance. How much more proof do you need than a direct quote from blacks law dictionary? Many supreme court decisions 1776-1861 recognised common law was superior to the guvment and in your courts today you can still invoke common law if you know how to and get the magistrate/judge to accept your putting them under oath. If they do not go under oath they are acting as private employees of a private company. My transcript shows how this is done.
GG/Men. I laboured very hard to bring you your remedy. But you men won’t learn thing one. And you won’t accept a direct quite from blacks law dictionary. Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you look. PadreIlluminati came over specifically shake you up even though he told me many times over that he believe the MRA area is ‘completely useless’. Well? Is it? Are all the men in the MRA area so completely useless that they wont accept a fact even when presented directly from the dictionary of the law society?
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“…Ragnar July 20, 2010 at 16:09
This thread is developing in a nice way – interesting read – the MRM is growing balls – we don’t need women at all – men made civilisation -women came along as baggage!”
Perhaps, but then again, Joanna’s presence triggered a very interesting exchange of ideas.
In this sense, maybe her posts proved useful. I see it a positive return on investment.
Maybe women can help by “feeding the fire”.
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Here’s a special parting gift for Menareangrynow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqgVXZ4nZgA
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ZenCo. July 20, 2010 at 17:47
GOLD!
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ZenCo. July 20, 2010 at 17:47
Gold!
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Testing
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@ MAAN
I would like to try, but I don’t think I can. It is sort of like your position that .you disagree with zeta concept because you think it is divisive. I don’t mean to be condescending but I think your youth naturally carries with a degree of naivety. It is supposed to be divisive.
Men need to be divisive as a group, and we need to weed out mangina influence and feminist drivel. That is the problem in a nutshell.
Look at what is happening in this forum with the woman. She comes in here like saying “Not all women are like that” is supposed to be some sort of grand revelation to the stupid little boys here and we are all supposed to step back from lifetimes of experience and consideration and say “Oh, gee, you’re right!”
Did you notice how that DIDN’T fucking happen?
That is what men need that they get here and precious few other places.
I think you are trying to get concinnity with the devil, though I don’t think you are aware of it….yet. These guys are pounding the crap out of you for a reason. I am not joining them because I happen to think you are really trying to do some good. But you need to be aware that there are men here who have paid the price for women for longer than you have been alive.
That isn’t just some old fart ruminating, it is a cold hard fact. And everywhere they have taken the pain and frustration for that shit, until places like these, they were told to shut up and take it like a man.
Well, they don’t have to any more and that is a good thing. It is great that Welmer created a place where the gloves are off with women and with the shaming male assholes that have chimed in with them for so long.
Men are angry now? You bet.
Let them be angry.
I’ll chime in on this thread. MAAN is not a feminist in disguise.
Like Paul, I see where he’s coming from, but I’m not going to censor the criticism because one thing men need is competition — including with each other.
Therefore, MAAN is doing us all a service by pointing out logical inconsistencies, questioning effectiveness, etc. Go ahead and question him back, but try to keep it above the belt.
That’s all I ask, fellas — keep it above the belt (hopefully that isn’t too much to ask).
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menareangrynow wrote:
@joanna
“but you just lost a supporter in me.”
Nobody gives a shit. Except menareangrynow.
Sorry to hear that. I hope you don’t let the bad experiences on here jade your view of the men’s movement. Welmer, the site’s owner has taken time to explain before that the Spearhead isn’t about men’s rights, but about more general subjects.
It’s a men’s issues site, for the benefit of men.
The highly political segments of the movement, like Men’s News Daily and its assorted following for example, are far less uncouth and not hostile towards women at all. I hope you’ll try your luck there, before you give up on us.
The highly political segments of the movement have accomplished almost nothing. I wonder if that’s what your real agenda is – to try and steer men towards a form of the men’s movement that has been shown to be feckless.
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Globalman said:
“Many supreme court decisions 1776-1861 recognised common law was superior to the guvment and in your courts today you can still invoke common law if you know how to and get the magistrate/judge to accept your putting them under oath.”
I like your posts, GM. There was a little event in America in the years 1861-1865 that changed the country permanently. Common Law in America is Dead On Arrival. Lots of men (lots and lots) are in prison for exercising the kind of tactics you advocate. I respect your perspective, and am happy that you have found freedom, but things are different (apparently more grim) in the USA.
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“Also too, you need an ability for people to reply to comments, with their replies set in a margin to the right directly under the original comments.”
Welmer,
I do NOT want to see replies to comments indented in this way, because they become unreadable very quickly.
Also, indented formatting would tend to hide replies to trolls. And these replies are sometimes worthy of being articles, and are always more important and informative than the troll comments.
Thanks.
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@ Malcom: “Lots of men (lots and lots) are in prison for exercising the kind of tactics you advocate.”
Around here, I wouldn’t expect a man to make it that far. The “law enforcement” officers would just shoot you (or me). They do it all the time. With impunity. The trigger man gets a week or two of paid time off (‘atta boy administrative leave), and an internal investigation finds no wrong doing on the part of the officer (ever). Really. They’d just shoot you.
For those who don’t like threads on Game, here’s a free practice tip: Bounce out and click on something else. It’s really that easy. There’s an old saying about the one with the weaker argument shouting the loudest. If Game isn’t for you – great. Why do you need to piss on it? It’s really helped a lot of men in their PERSONAL lives, and while might not have achieved the awesome political results MAAN alludes to (like CHS, CY, WF, MN, etc. have achieved for men), I believe it will have an effect in the aggregate in due time. Yeah- lets all go into the woods and pass around a talking stick. That ought to do it. Don’t forget your sweater vest.
Improving your personal situation, with Game or whatever else, does not preclude you from pursuing political objectives. IMO- the BEST results I’ve seen, by far, are from Mike Robinson at Fathers and Families and from Marc Angelucci (caveat: this doesn’t mean I agree with everything from F&F or NCFM).
If you already know how to date, good for you! Really. Super. If you don’t care to learn to date, don’t want to date, or whatever level of heterosexual interaction you have achieved is satisfactory- bully for you, too. There’s no need for you to bother youself with Game. However, there are men out there that would like to improve their interactions with women, and have realized that following the advice of women regarding what men should do is worse than a complete waste of time.
What I find odd and just plain stupid are those that disparage Game who so clearly have no comprehension about it, what it is, or how it might be used. Game is not about “bullshit pickup lines”. Scripted openings are for the true novices who might otherwise vapor lock in front of a woman. That’s all. They are to interacting with women what learning a scale on the guitar is to playing lead. You don’t go from a dead stop to Sweet Child O’ Mine. But then, some never progress beyond playing the scale.
Yes, getting laid is easy. Game makes it easier and more efficient. It provides tools for putting oneself within the erotic view of women who might otherwise not even notice you, particularly at sausage fests. It can save you money. Lots and lots of money. Game is not limited to merely boosting your notch count. It is not about “placing yourself in the alpha position among other males”, it’s about not being a tooled chump, it’s about maintaining your value and self-respect, and not eagerly diving to be some woman’s doormat or trained poodle. It’s about overcoming a lifetime of trained subordination to women, of the false consciousness that “women are wonderful” – and you’re just dirt- you’re lucky she’s letting you buy her dinner. Use those portions of Game that work for you in a manner consistent with the results you seek to achieve. You don’t need to wear a fur cowboy hat or put on guyliner.
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You’re telling us you’ve never heard the feminist slogan “women need men like a fish needs a bicycle”? Really? Now that’s just rich. And for the record men have challenged women on that point for decades now. You know how feminists typically respond? By trying to defame the challengers character through feminist shaming language.
It wasn’t until recent times on places such as this site that men have been free of their browbeating and able to speak freely. The mainstream media is still off limits when criticizing feminists though. Just look at all the jeering and denigrating Marc Rudov gets when he mentions the word “gynocracy” or when Glenn Sacks brings up the anti-male bias in family courts.
Bottom line, feminists have controlled public policy and the rules of debate for far too long and sites such of this are giving men the venue to collaborate and discuss the issues. In this case it’s the veracity of Game, which I fully support as I detailed previously.
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Paradoxotaur
I couldn’t have said it better myself. And Malcolm you know it too american cops don’t play that shit. This is how they roll
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Hangnail is the only one who gets it.
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try it now http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=319_1222600011
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men are angry . men have no rights over their money property or most importantly children in marriage. a relationship becomes a marriage when she becomes pregnant. men have no birth control. get snipped or dont have relationships.
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There can be no defeat of misandry without a deep internalization of the concepts of Game. I have explained this before. Game is #1 among the Four Horsemen of Male Emancipation.
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In other news….
You can’t make this up. Check out the video to Maroon 5′s new song (which is a great song, at least in audio).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFcjgbZM0Y
Sure, it is ‘art’, but can you imagine the histrionics of NOW and other femmroids if a music video had even one-tenth this amount of male-on-female sadistic violence? Didn’t Terry O’Neill have a hissy fit that a football player tackled his mother (in love, no less)?
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Globalman, come back to Australia and run as an independent.
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@GM
I agree 95%. But why do you want them to stop? It’s fun classifying an idiot as iredeemably so, and I have no interest in wanting to change their ways, and I have no interest in wanting to befriend them. It’s fun showing up these sexist clowns, how they contradict themselves, and how their white-knighting presupposes their superiority over the damsels that they purport to stand up for. There was a time when the original feminists despised their ilk and spat in their faces.
But then this:
Absolute bullshit. I remember in my university days when the manginas imagined that I was getting all the pussy, and how they tried to undermine me. I laughed at them and enjoyed the attention. They don’t need to be enlgihtened, and their friendship was the last thing that I wanted or needed. These very numbskulls will take their white-knighting into the workplace, too, and they will happily deny you your rights there, too. There is no reason whatsoever to expect that women are your enemy and men are your friend. By assuming that men are wonderful and that the sun shines out of the hairy arses of all men just because they are men, you are being naïve. You deny yourself the pleasure of the unrestrained contempt that these fucktards deserve and the arrogance with which they should be dismissed. I don’t ever want to feel that I have to pull my punches just because of someone’s sex.
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You write well for a doctor, Paul Elam. The way I see it this “game” concept is really a rather simple revelation:
Women are quite ordinary when out of the white-hot spotlight of constant attention.
Enjoy your friends and the people who care about you. Learn to appreciate & develop your talents, thoughts and who you are.
Remember guys, respect and honor, those are our “games.”
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Meanwhile, MAAN is still a lying hypocrite of a woman posing as a man.
Sorry Welmer. It’s the truth.
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“You can’t make this up. Check out the video to Maroon 5?s new song (which is a great song, at least in audio).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFcjgbZM0Y
Sure, it is ‘art’, but can you imagine the histrionics of NOW and other femmroids if a music video had even one-tenth this amount of male-on-female sadistic violence? Didn’t Terry O’Neill have a hissy fit that a football player tackled his mother (in love, no less)?”
Yes I saw that clip of Maroon 5′s too, TFH. It made me cringe. And, to be honest, I don’t think that it IS art!
All it did was upset me and I thought to myself …Why don’t you just flatten the bitch… Such was the effect that it had on me.
I love music but the quality of clips has degenerated these past few years. The worst ones are usually from the women.
Lady Gaga’s “Alejandro” is a horrible blasphemous clip. If it comes on I turn it off or change the channel….Rhianna’s “Te Amo”, makes me want to throw up. ( with her lesbian scene..) Just a couple of examples..
It’s almost like it is a competition amongst these women to see who can come up with the most debauched and degrading video..
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Paul Elam wrote:
Look at what is happening in this forum with the woman. She comes in here like saying “Not all women are like that” is supposed to be some sort of grand revelation to the stupid little boys here and we are all supposed to step back from lifetimes of experience and consideration and say “Oh, gee, you’re right!”
Did you notice how that DIDN’T fucking happen?
That is what men need that they get here and precious few other places.
That feature by itself is enough to make The Spearhead worth reading. MAAN tried the white knight nonsense and was rightly told to go pound sand. It reminds me of a recent open letter writer who went scurrying back to his blog after being inundated with 400+ replies.
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Men are Angry Now seems to know what’s going on; Paul Elam’s article was poorly written and mostly wrong.
Re: Manufacturers Warning: The product (woman) being used can lead to suicide or poverty or whatever affliction listed because of the value that the end-user is placing on the product. Any product that we value and place importance on will cause us fits and problems if our interaction with it doesn’t turn out the way we wish it would. The thing is, our valuation is biologically determined. It is deterministic. We can adopt strategies to prevent that valued item (woman) from malfunctioning or breaking, but we shouldn’t impugn the whole product. The product is a function of its environment, and we – as the users – are part of that equation.
Further, a giant glaring hole in this analysis is that it ignores the fact that Game/seduction/sex/attraction occurs in a fully dynamic setting i.e. men are competing against men on one level and against women on another. Paul Elam acts as if men are able to choose women at will, therefore an individual man only has to “conquer” the female he desires.
I also question Paul Elam’s argument that men dedicate themselves to women more that the reverse. This is cherry-picking at its best. Yeah, some foolish men invest much more into their women than the women invest in them, but general observation indicates that men seem less dedicated to their relationships than the women they’re with.
OK. Perhaps this is all true of the men in this sphere, but if that’s the case, we all need to realize that we are generalizing the situation. Maybe the men in this sphere (I’m channeling Obsidian here) have experiences similar to what Paul Elam describes. But in the “real world” the opposite seems to be true.
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greyghost wrote: “One more thing, if women were so worthy of honor and respect game wouldn’t even work.”
Absolutely right.
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Game can only hurt women who aren’t worthy of honor and respect to begin with.
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Can I be the only one who thinks GM needs to wind his neck in a bit?
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Game can only hurt women who aren’t worthy of honor and respect to begin with.
So nearly all.
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GlobalMan:
“Eastern european women want some good husbands to marry and know you have to treat men well to get such. Western nazis like J see a husband as an ‘entitlement’.”
Here I have to oppose you a bit. Eastern european (or at least Central European) women behave like their western counterparts to their local men.
They dream to marry a rich western man (hypergamy) and can pretend a lot to get him. But inside they are the same as any western woman. And they do abuse laws the same way as western women when they are sure the cannot be sent back.
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What real world? The one you just conjured up in your imagination?
Women file the lions share of divorces, mostly for “no fault” reasons. They do it at an average of 7 years into the marriage, which also happens to coincide with when the man’s income begins to peak and the children are at a more manageable age, e.g. in school and out of moms hair five days a week.
And the emotional trauma for all this is not only inflicted on the children, but on men, who commit divorce related suicide at five times the rate of women.
Hint: It doesn’t make you look anything but foolish to try to point out facts and figures, but use your misguided opinion as guideline.
“Connie Chastain July 20, 2010 at 17:01
Jabberwocky wrote:
Stereotyping is a form of pattern recognition, which is the basis for most thought. Science breaks all things down into groups and classifications to better understand our complex reality. Should we account for exceptions to the rule? Absolutely. Should we ignore the rule because of exceptions? Absolutely not.
Is this original to you, sir? If so, may I use it? How should it be attributed?
Thanks.”
The idea is not original to me, just the phrasing. By all means, please use it. My name is Justin Brown. I’m torn about telling you my real name, but since their are hundreds of Justin Browns in the USA, and I don’t have any reputation worth smearing, and I actually want to be a famous artist when I grow up one day (I’m 32), fuck it. I’m sure some of the more conspiratorial folks here will admonish me, but I’m prepared to make this movement part of my real life and actual identity, like Paul Elam. If you would like me to talk about myself in any other way, just ask.
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The Spearhead (a blog of articles with comment sections for feedback and debate), is a new form of information sharing only allowed by the technology of the internet era. The Spearhead, which hesitates to ban any voice, is a forum for vast and divergent views and opinions. It can reveal these thoughts in an honest, anonomous, and emotional way unlike any other form of medium. Taken as a whole, it displays the collective thoughts and feelings of a certain segment of society that finds common interest in the main themes presented hear. In doing so, it also shows the divergent views and opinions of its followers and the inherent contradictory and complex nature of the world we live in. In a way, it is accomplishing what could only be accomplished before through art. It makes us uncomfortable, it provokes thought, it relays underlying truths, and it attacks pretty lies. That does not mean it is a perfect mirror of reality, and niether does it attempt to be. It is attempting to capture the spirit, the essence, of men’s struggle to find their place in this world and to formulate a political or personal solution to an exessential problem; what is fair and just?
It is good that we don’t always agree. It is good that we rage at one another, as only the truth can withstand a constant barrage of ridicule, hate, and distortion. If those who speak out against us or our ideas cannot or will not let their “truth” stand the test of time against the forces of emotional debate and dialouge, than their truth is hardly worthy or true at all. Our legal system, our government, our economy, are all based on adversarial relationships, on competition, because ultimately, that is the only way to get to the truth, to let each side battle it out until the lies are destroyed, and all that is left is that which is most truthish.
And you can quote me on that.
I’m just sayin.
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How ironic that some call Game wrong/useless/etc. in this thread, when it contains elements of the evolutionary psychology that Game relies upon. Look at the example of the poster Joanna. First, she denounces Game as somehow dangerous — not to men, but to women. Second, note with whom she interacts: does she attempt to comfort the 50-year old man who has been screwed over by his ex and the Family Court system, as a “good” woman might be expected to? Nah, she starts arguing with Globalman, who is displaying clear Alpha properties. Got that, guys? Joanna, the “good” woman, the “quality” woman has no time to offer any advice or even sympathy to any man suffering at the hands of her sisterhood..no time for someone she clearly perceives as a Beta, she has to go after the Alpha and attempt to shut him up.
When she fails in this effort, when not only Globalman but other men tell her to peddle that junk somewhere else, she has no choice but to flounce around for a while, further displaying her value (“I’m a doctor!”, “I’ve been to Europe”, etc.) then make a big public exit to the tune of “None of you are good enough for me”. Anyone care to speculate on the Game aspects of this little display of petulance?
Then we have MAAN, who contrary to what Paul Elam says, is a feminist and a White Knight. Go look at his website. Who does he look up to? Lesbian feminist Camille Paglia, and equity feminist Christian Hoff Summers. Why? Because they show some small shreds of sympathy for men and boys as human beings. But how did we get to this sorry state we reside in? Well, for a start, because during the ’60′s lesbian feminists like Camille Paglia got away with a whole lot of stuff, and supported stupid laws that we now chafe under. What do “equity feminists” want? They want “equality”, or so they say. Do Paglia or Summers ever call for rolling back the family court system to something Constitutional? No, they don’t. Do they call for ending Affirmative Action? Nope. Do they call for ending unilateral, “because I’m bored” divorce? Not a chance. Do they even consider overturning VAWA or the debtor’s prison of Bradley? Don’t make me laugh.
So what is it these two are trying to do? They are trying to save Feminism from its excesses. They are like Gorbachov trying to liberalize the old USSR in order to keep it running. They may care in some abstract way about men and boys, certainly they don’t hate us as most other feminists do, but they aren’t out there trying to make any serious changes that would benefit men, boys and thus society at large. They are trying to save feminism from itself, and MAAN loves them for that. So he runs in here to proclaim that we all must respect women, all women, because..because…well, because they’re women, dammit!
Look at MAAN’s site and see what he cares about, and what he doesn’t care about. See what his issues are, and what they aren’t. Given a few more years, he might well come around to a more realistic point of view, but for now in my opinion he’s trying to work for a more humane feminism, not an end to it. And what does he get from Joanna for his White-Knighting? Nothing, not even a moments recognition. She takes his support for her as her due, some deference she is entitled to.
So there you have it, two clear examples of what Game is about: an entitled woman who waves what she regards as her high status qualities around while ignoring Betas as she screams shaming language at a man she perceives as an Alpha, and a White Knight who rushes in to her defense. Don’t tell me Game doesn’t work, you’ve just seen it right here!
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@chuck
“Men are Angry Now seems to know what’s going on; Paul Elam’s article was poorly written and mostly wrong.”
Has somebody been asking for your opinion?
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@ZenCo.
“Meanwhile, MAAN is still a lying hypocrite of a woman posing as a man.
Sorry Welmer. It’s the truth.”
Firstly, I’m not a woman, as evidenced by this. Secondly, so what if I was? Would it invalidate everything I’ve said, if I was? Thirdly, what are my lies, what are my hypocrisies? Name ‘em.
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“Would it invalidate everything I’ve said, if I was?”
It accounts for motivation.
I think the points you are making are valid if you don’t want to offend your opponent or your neutral observers. Me personally, want to offend as many people as possible. It has marketing advantages and disadvantages. Eminem, Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh- they all have huge audiences because they don’t mence their words. Doesn’t make them right, its just a stylistic choice.
Politically, we are here to rile up the masses, not sit on congressional panels and have dispassionate debates with political wonks and academics. We’ll leave that to the appropriate MRAs. Glenn Sacks, Christina Hoff Summers, etc. etc. We aren’t going to let The Spearhead boil down to just a group of thoughtless hatemongers either, but a little hate creates a little heat, and a little heat is needed to make the status quo uncomfortable.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFcjgbZM0Y
That Maroon got gamed.
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@Ray Manta
“MAAN tried the white knight nonsense and was rightly told to go pound sand.”
You and me see this thread in in different lights. I do hope that you realize that for you to have a consistent and unhypocritical view on these things, that you must oppose defending men from stereotypes said about them, because that would be more ‘white knight’ behavior. Rushing to anyone’s defense when they are being attacked, isn’t a bad thing. I do it for everyone, so I’m curious why you haven’t jumped on me before, for my defense of men. Are you selectively permitting what you call ‘white knight nonsense’ on behalf of men, but denying the same considerations on the part of women? As I said before, if some feminists were talking about men the same way that a lot of commentators here have been talking about women, you would all jump on them for it, don’t deny it. And you know what, I would help you; because, I hate sexism, whether it’s against men or against women. Am I seriously the only one pissed off that globalman said “All men KNOW they are better than women.”? Someone explain to me how that’s any better than the worst things feminists have said, like this.
We can see what the result of this is: sympathetic people, who would help us, leaving because they have too much respect for themselves to be talked down to. It’s why Joana left, and it’s why a lot of others have and will continue to depart. If you wanna help the movement, then you have to oppose all sexism, not just misandry. There are so many people out their waiting to work with an objective and just men’s movement, instead of this paranoid, sex obsessed, and condescending mess we have now.
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@Jabberwocky
“I think the points you are making are valid if you don’t want to offend your opponent or your neutral observers.”
My opponents aren’t women, Jabber. My opponents are sexists. Take a closer look at this thread, the inflammatory things that were said were about women, all women, not about feminists.
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@Jabberwocky
“We aren’t going to let The Spearhead boil down to just a group of thoughtless hatemongers either,”
Threads like this, and this one, could have fooled me.
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“I think the points you are making are valid if you don’t want to offend your opponent or your neutral observers.”
My opponents aren’t women, Jabber. My opponents are sexists. Take a closer look at this thread, the inflammatory things that were said were about women, all women, not about feminists.
-Some of us blame all women, some of us don’t, some of us only blame feminists. For some its a nuanced view of evo-psych interplay with our culture and government. Let the debate continue. I think your taking the words of a few and interpreting them as everyones beliefs. If some of us here see evil in all women, that is just one view of many. I see more good in women than I talk about, just because it doesn’t serve our cause, I don’t go out of my way to point it out.
“Threads like this, and this one, could have fooled me.”
I’d say that was thoughtful hatemongering. There is a difference.
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@ anonymous
“The highly political segments of the movement have accomplished almost nothing. I wonder if that’s what your real agenda is – to try and steer men towards a form of the men’s movement that has been shown to be feckless.”
My only agenda is to oppose sexism, and yes, the political segments of the men’s movement have accomplished a lot. Take a look at Men and Women Against Discrimination v. The Family Protection Services Board and Marc E. Angelucci v. California. Now men can at least get help in escaping domestic violence in two states. It’s a solid first step on getting a Violence Against Men Act passed. Or take a look at the creation of the Male’s Studies discipline. It will work to counteract corrupt academic models and research, such as the ones that lead to the Duluth Model being adopted by the government in the first place. Yeah, we lost Dubay v. Wells; but, look at the publicity it created. Glenn Sacks was able to get companies to boycott David & Goliath merchandise. We have had real victories along the way that we should celebrate; and, we have the political segments of the movement to thank for them.
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@Jabberwocky
“I’d say that was thoughtful hatemongering. There is a difference.”
I don’t care if Einstein, himself, was saying these things. Nothing excuses its bigotry.
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@Jabberwocky
“I think your taking the words of a few and interpreting them as everyones beliefs.”
It’s been much more than a few people saying these things, and it’s not just on this one thread. Nor do I think that these bigots speak for everyone here. I know some of you very well, actually. What is telling to me is everyone’s silence. I’ll ask again, am I seriously the only one pissed off that globalman said “All men KNOW they are better than women.”? I think a lot of you do disagree; but, who among you is pissed? Who’s actually annoyed that something sexist was said about women? It seems like it’s just me, me and Joana…
A lot of you don’t agree with these sentiments; but, why the hell haven’t you said something? All most people have said is that I must be some feminist spy or traitor for sticking up for women, like I do for men…
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@Nutz
“Just look at all the jeering and denigrating Marc Rudov gets when he mentions the word ‘gynocracy’.”
So I’m guessing you believe that we live in some matriarchy, eh?
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Still trying to shut up male masses huh MAAN. Justin had some pretty good comment about the spearhead and you are still at it. Why is it so important to you to silence the commenters here? What long term goals do you have for the future of men in the western world? Think about what you are posting up MAAN. What is the alterative? And where does it lead to?
Lead the discussion on where we go from here. Let us assume you have won over the mens movement with your comments and are now in a position to lead and guide the movement. Give it a shot MAAN.
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It’s been much more than a few people saying these things, and it’s not just on this one thread. Nor do I think that these bigots speak for everyone here. I know some of you very well, actually. What is telling to me is everyone’s silence. I’ll ask again, am I seriously the only one pissed off that globalman said “All men KNOW they are better than women.”? I think a lot of you do disagree; but, who among you is pissed? Who’s actually annoyed that something sexist was said about women? It seems like it’s just me, me and Joana…
I’m not responsible for anyone’s speech here, oly what i said. Also i do not find it productive, when MRM uses the same tools what feminists love to use against men. Anyway, i’m not really surprised,when some of the folks let their anger come out here. I think you have to deal with a little bit of misoginy here, because the outside world exactly the opposite.
But you know what? Why don’t you go tell the feminists not to be sexist? Ah, they don’t let you in their forums?
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Paul Elam:
There’s a major logical flaw in the argument you’re putting forth when you cite statistics for divorce and statistics for suicide.
You imply that men commit higher rates of suicide than women because women somehow drive them to suicide via divorce courts etc., but you also claim that women file higher rates of divorce than men.
In your argument, suicide has a root cause, but a woman’s decision to divorce seems to appear out of thin air – or at least her own malevolent nature. A plausible argument for high rates of no-fault divorce could be that men contribute their fair share of misery to the relationship but are less apt to pull the trigger on filing for the divorce (men aren’t that “way” for one, we don’t tend to want to handle personal differences through litigation, but that doesn’t mean that the man is the angle of the relationship.)
Points being, there are a lot of statistics that are cited and used with regards to divorce, but there has been very little in depth study of the causality of divorce. And even then, you forget that a relationship as you argued men should avoid doesn’t have to involve marriage. Since the statistics you cite aren’t fully fleshed out, anecdotal evidene and merely *looking around you* and outside of the nerds and tail-hiding losers that occupy this board, you’ll witness plenty of husbands, boyfriends, and fathers who just don’t give a fuck. They’re everywhere. And yes, there is a societal flaw somewhere that has caused them to be fuck ups and losers and assholes, but I don’t think the blame can be lumped entirely on women. These types of men shouldn’t marry, and not because they’ll get raped in divorce court. They shouldn’t marry because they’re not suited for marriage or LTR.
So basically, you have the dynamic all screwed up, just so it will fit your agenda. Similar tactic to that used by Ms. Valenti.
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MAAN-
Why not settle down at another blog perhaps? There are lots of them out there that are nothing like The Spearhead? I’m not trying to get rid of you. I actually appreciate your side of this. A little counter balancing force never hurt anyone. I would try to work your magic in small doses however, “politically” speaking. Just my opinion. Few people turn on a dime like you are asking, especially if they feel like they’re being badgered into it (not saying your doing that). And as far as Globalman goes, most of us here learned to leave him be a long time ago. Some battles aren’t worth it, and he has a right to his hostility in all likelyhood. If he’s lying, he’s good at it, because he’s been telling the same consistent life story since he’s been around, and that story justifies his tone.
Like me ask you MAAN, in all sencerity, whats the worst thing women have done to you? What they did to me I can only describe as psychological torture, and I’m not being hyperbolic. I wonder why you aren’t more angry? Maybe this is just a philosophical or moral issue for you, and you are viewing this as an issue of justice, which is great, but I’ve got to be honest with you man, justice for me will only come in the form of revenge. I want feminists humiliated and pissed off. We might just have to agree to disagree and fight together where we share common ground. No one says we have to be clones of each other around here.
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menareangrynow
I have said it many times before. Trying to fight an ideologically driven and emotionally volatile enemy with fairness and reason alone is like trying to put out a forest fire with a water pistol. (Don’t believe me? Look how much success evolutionists have with creationists.)
Contrary to what you probably want to believe feminists ARE sexists. It just so happens that theirs is a POLITICALLY CORRECT sexism and therefore not ‘really’ sexism. How could THEY ever be sexist? After all THEY are one of the victim groups along with blacks, hispanics, etc.
No the answer is not fairness but a diametrically opposed ideology.
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“and outside of the nerds and tail-hiding losers that occupy this board”
Define nerd. There are good nerds and bad nerds, and I blame most bad nerds on their moms and mangina dads. What are you anyways, a bully who wants to relive his Highschool days?
Tail-hiding losers? Tail-hiding? How so? Really, how so? Do you wanna meet at the monkey bars after school or something? We stand our ground and argue what we believe here. How is that tail hiding. Many of us here bravely open up about our pain and weaknesses. How is that tail hiding? Losers? Again, so vague. In what way? I’m the shit and find many of the minds here equally awesome. You’re going to have to be more clever and pearcing with your insults.
“you’ll witness plenty of husbands, boyfriends, and fathers who just don’t give a fuck.”
Sure. Men suck also. Humans suck. That proves nothing.
“They’re everywhere.”
Everywhere? Where? The ghetto? There are no fathers there. Our government on ghetto queens push them out.
“And yes, there is a societal flaw somewhere that has caused them to be fuck ups and losers and assholes, but I don’t think the blame can be lumped entirely on women.”
I’d say it is the genetic bell curve to blame for so many men sucking. Men sucking has little to nothing to do with women (although the hand that rocks the cradle does rule the world), but society and families falling apart has more to do with women than men.
We don’t think men are blameless, just that there is enough blame on men already. We are just trying to bring balance to the Force man.
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This game subject really scares the hell out of some people. Chuck went the hell off.
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Chuck, are you divorced? Have you been robbed of your children? Do you pay obscene child support/alimony for the “privilege” of seeing your children (maybe)? Do you work almost solely to meet CS/alimony obligations? Have you lost 50% of everything you worked for? Did you go to college to get 3 degrees only to net $1000 a month after obligations? Did you buy into the marriage fairytale only to be told to “man up” when TSHTF?
You need fucking verifiable stats to prove the suicide rate for men increases post-divorce? Holy fuck dude!
I don’t think The Spearhead is about the “asshole men” out there. It is about men that bought into the “sugar and spice” nature of women hook, line and sinker, and now realize the shit sandwich that marriage and LTRs are.
That men need a NAWALT or “what about the asshole men” fucking disclaimer on every fucking post has reached the nauseating point.
MAAN sounds just like a feminist when they get called out on their circular BS. They want citations, bibliographies and web links. Fuck off!
Fuck ‘em! My 42 years on this planet and my observations are all I need. Stop telling me/us shit that is clear as day.
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“A plausible argument for high rates of no-fault divorce could be that men contribute their fair share of misery to the relationship”
How so? Working all day to pay the bills and then coming home so tired they can’t be emotionally available? The problem, normally, is that women expect men to be everything and anything to suite their whims. Period. You want proof, look at how girls are raised to think of themselves as princesses, morally superior angels, and romance experts. If a women is unhappy, she looks at her man long before she looks in the mirror.
I’m not saying all women are like that, just too many.
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“This game subject really scares the hell out of some people.”
And what does that imply?
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You know, there are books about this stuff. Would you like a list of reading material on how women manipulate and use men for resources, how the education system is shortchanging boys, or maybe how the legal system favors women all the way from criminal to family law?
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“evilwhitemalempire July 21, 2010 at 11:49
This game subject really scares the hell out of some people.
-And what does that imply?”
Perhaps, that some people can’t handle the truth that women are not angels and are drawn to powerful, dominant men regardless of their character.
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“Has somebody been asking for your opinion?”
Did anybody ask for your comment? No…then shut the fuck up.
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“I don’t think The Spearhead is about the “asshole men” out there. It is about men that bought into the “sugar and spice” nature of women hook, line and sinker, and now realize the shit sandwich that marriage and LTRs are.”
I can buy that. Its probably also about sexual frustration. I think most men here have not gotten fucked in a long time and the frustration gets channeled into anger. But you didn’t marry every women on the planet. You married a women. So how the fuck can you judge every women?
Have none of you ever had a women that was kind to you? A mom, sister, girlfriend, friend? Never?! I mean I can’t understand it. I don’t think women are sugar, spice and everything nice but they are not devils.
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i’ve been treated like captain invisible my entire life by women, and now, i never ask any of them out, or even speak to them. heard enough feminist shaming language in this life, thank you.
but i never got married, or ever had kids. see? being ignored has its silver lining.
having said that, this mens right ‘movement’ is no movement at all.
whining on the internet? thats not ‘activism’ and, as such, will go nowhere.
everyone tells me its a free country, of, by, and for the people!
IF thats true. you have the laws you want, and deserve( and the women you deserve also)
if thats NOT true, change it, but bitching on the net? useless.
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“Sure. Men suck also. Humans suck. That proves nothing.”
You can’t prove anything. But men do suck in many ways. That said it doesn’t really explain divorce. Men already suck before getting into a marriage so why don’ t girls just avoid marriage in the first place. Girls are the first ones to want to get married and the first ones to divorce.
I have a heard time seeing how men can be blamed for the fact that a large majority of divorces are initiated by women.
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@Chuck
“You imply that men commit higher rates of suicide than women because women somehow drive them to suicide via divorce courts etc., but you also claim that women file higher rates of divorce than men.”
Women do file for divorce more often than not. There’s been polling data to demonstrate this. For example The American Association of Retired Persons did a vast study called “The Divorce Experience: A Study of Divorce at Midlife and Beyond” which found that women file for ~66% of divorces, in the age 40 and up bracket. Now, as to whether this has lead to depression and suicide in men, the AARP also found that the men blamed themselves for the break up in more than half of the cases. This means they were beating themselves up over them being dumped, in many cases. This most certainly caused a sense of deep sadness in many men, and some men who have called into suicide hotlines have mentioned divorce. I think when you look at the whole picture, you’ll see the toll that divorce takes on men.
As for divorce being the greatest reason for men taking their own lives, which I don’t think Paul was saying anyway, I believe Warren Ferrell’s research points to social expectations on males being the greatest cause of their unhappiness.
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@wow
“MAAN sounds just like a feminist when they get called out on their circular BS. They want citations, bibliographies and web links. Fuck off!”
I know, me and damned habit of demanding evidence for outsourced claims…~~
It’s such a shame that I have proof for my statements, like research from credible organizations like the AARP…~~
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I don’t think women are sugar, spice and everything nice but they are not devils.
No they are not, but you can change them into nasty creatures by brainwashing.
Too easily.
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“I don’t think women are sugar, spice and everything nice but they are not devils.”
Sure they are not, but you can change them into nasty creatures by brainwashing. Too easily.
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Malcolm July 20, 2010 at 18:45
Malcolm, lots of men in the US are in jail for lots of things that are victimless ‘crimes’. You have the highest jail population by percentage in the world in the ‘land of the free’. They lock up LOTS of dissenters like Ezra Pound. That does NOT make them wrong. Men who incorrectly do what MANY men in the US HAVE DONE do get locked up. And SOME men who do it correctly get locked up to.
If a man is not willing to risk being locked up for standing up for his rights? If he is not willing to gather up his friends and tell the cops FUCK OFF? If he is afraid of the cops? He is a slave. And you are welcome to be one. Most men are.
Paradoxotaur July 20, 2010 at 19:47
“Around here, I wouldn’t expect a man to make it that far. The “law enforcement” officers would just shoot you (or me). They do it all the time. With impunity.”
Yes. In the US ‘suicide by cop’ is a growing cause of death. Guess what? If you don’t start defending yourselves it’s only going to get worse. You are not going to stop the ‘bully in the schoolyard’ without facing him down. It’s that simple. Weren’t any of you ever taught by your dads you had to face down the bully in the schoolyard? I put my post on what you are going to have to do in the forum. You will die slaves or live as free men depending on your own choices.
codebuster July 20, 2010 at 21:16
“By assuming that men are wonderful and that the sun shines out of the hairy arses of all men just because they are men, you are being naïve.”
CB, I have never assume all men are wonderful. This is a silly statment that all men know not to be true. Some men are real scumbags. We boys learn that as a young age. What we are NOT taught is just what scumbags women can be as well. And FAR more western women are horrible people than men are.
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@Jabberwocky
“Like me ask you MAAN, in all sencerity, whats the worst thing women have done to you? ”
Women haven’t done anything to me. The worst thing that’s been done to me happened right after my birth, and that was what one solitary woman did to me, not ‘women’. After I was born I was tied down and circumcised.
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“Its probably also about sexual frustration. I think most men here have not gotten fucked in a long time and the frustration gets channeled into anger.”
Shaming language like this is ridiculous. Do we have small dicks also? What about mommy issues? And not that it matters to the validity of our concerns, but I’ll post a pick of my wife up against whatever your fucking any day bitch, and we’ll see who is sexually frustrated.
“So how the fuck can you judge every women?”
The same way all things are judged. Standards and evidence. Many of us here have a life time of evidence we rely on. Are you dense.
“Have none of you ever had a women that was kind to you?”
Not without ulterior motives. I’ve had plenty of men be kind to me, but a women? hardly ever, and I mean that. Often it was just patronizing plattitudes, shallow throw away niceness meant to make me go away.
“You can’t prove anything.”
Some things can be proven, some can’t, and some you just have statistical likelyhoods for. We have these things called science, math, and logic to help us figure these things out. Look into it.
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“Women haven’t done anything to me. The worst thing that’s been done to me happened right after my birth, and that was what one solitary woman did to me, not ‘women’. After I was born I was tied down and circumcised.”
Women have done a lot worse to many of us here. I’m glad you’ve gotten through life so unscathed (emotionally speaking). I hate to boil it down to this shit, but are you by chance good-looking, athletic, and charismatic.
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@Jabberwocky
“I wonder why you aren’t more angry? Maybe this is just a philosophical or moral issue for you, and you are viewing this as an issue of justice, which is great, but I’ve got to be honest with you man, justice for me will only come in the form of revenge.”
Revenge isn’t the way to go. We can be so much better than an eye for an eye, and that’s not just idealism. What we need to do is break the cycle of violence, not perpetuate it. I do view this as a philosophical debate about morality, you’re correct.
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“if thats NOT true, change it, but bitching on the net? useless.”
We are spreading the message. Its a philosophical propaganda war in many ways. Jesus, is it rookie day today? Go to the beginning of this blog and start with the first article. I’ll see you in 6 months.
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“Revenge isn’t the way to go.”
Revenge is the way to go…..hmmm, I think we’re at a stalemate.
“We can be so much better than an eye for an eye, and that’s not just idealism.”
It is just idealism. Another stalemate I guess.
“What we need to do is break the cycle of violence, not perpetuate it.”
Who said anything about violence?
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I have to agree with that, but it’s easy to say.
From the other side: to speak out the truth, that’s not revenge, even if it hurts.
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Paul,
my comment on your second video. When I was early in getting used to this there was this hot woman that I talked to and persued for a while. (Yes, I was still persuing then.) After a little while, a few friendly ‘accidental’ meetings I pushed for sex and she said no. Mr. Truth was encouraging me to push for sex before the first date so I did. So, I figured, ok. She said no. I’ll let that go. Next time I saw her she hit on me. I nearly said yes but for some reason I thought “Fuck it, I’ll tell her no and see what happens”. Well, she was all ‘upset’ and pissed off. I knew I was on to something. A week later she happened to see me in the town center and walked towards me waving so I looked in another direction and completely ignored her like I had not seen her at all. A while later I bumped into her again at a place I eat at regularly, that she knew about, and she pressed me harder on why I was rejecting her. I finished up saying something like: “Well, I asked you for sex, pretty clearly, and you said no, and that’s fine. I have decided that any woman who ever says no to me will never get the benefit of having sex with me again. It’s something new I am trying.” Well, she laughed and kissed me and hugged me and played all over me etc etc. She claimed that ALL women have to say ‘no’ a few times to see if the man is really interested etc. Though uncertain and new to this I acted confident and stuck to my guns. Acting all nonchalant I told her “I will never again in my life have sex with a woman who has said no to having sex with me. I have decided ‘no’ means ‘no and goodbye’. That is my new policy.” She tried a few more times with me and was pretty upset each time I told her no. But I stuck to it.
Well? A funny thing happened. More hot women started coming on to me that I didn’t know. I can only assume that my rejection of this pretty hot woman got ‘around’. I am not hard to find in my town. It’s has a big market square and I eat at pretty similar places most evenings and weekends. I don’t speak german. I’m about the only 187cm tall blonde australian in the place as far a I know. I didn’t have a kitchen for the longest time so I ate out a lot in the evenings with my mate Mr. Truth. So if women wanted to find me, they knew where to look. And it seems they did. It is so easy to engineer a ‘chance meeting’ in my town it’s not funny. My photo is also on my web site so it’s easy for a woman to know me by sight even if she has not seen me before. I am pretty sure telling this woman ‘no’ was good for me. Since then I’ve kept the policy. ‘No’ means ‘no and goodbye’. Only my fav#1 can say ‘no’ to me, and she has never said ‘no’ to sex…just to other stuff.
Mr. Truth was giving me advice all through this period and it was good advice too. The less attention you pay them. The more you show them you don’t care. The more you tell them that there are plenty of others lined up. The harder and faster they throw themselves at you. I was very surprised when this first happened but now I understand the whole deal.Works for me.
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Can justice not be served sometimes through revenge?
In my world view it can.
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@Jabberwocky
“I hate to boil it down to this shit, but are you by chance good-looking, athletic, and charismatic.”
Haha, alright, I’ll bite. I’m athletically inclined; but, not the extraordinarily fit. Back when I played on my school’s soccer team, I got cheered for a good bit by the ladies. In person, I can be very persuasive, as I tend to very expressive and have a way with words. While not extraordinarily beautiful, I get my share of compliments like ‘handsome’ and ‘cute’. How ’bout you tiger?
To be honest though, this is inane. If you think I’ve gotten preferential treatment in life because of these things, you’re wrong. I still had to sign up for the draft, I still can’t get help at domestic violence shelters, I wasn’t protected from genital mutilation, if I’m raped my identity won’t be protected, nor was I or will I be afforded any other considerations that women and girls get by virtue of their gender.
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A long time ago, revenge was the only form of justice. In a way, it is primal justice. Inferior to institutional justice perhaps, but the system’s justice is now corrupt and malignant against me, thus I’m relying on a more natural form of justice.
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@Jabberwocky
“Can justice not be served sometimes through revenge?
In my world view it can.”
I guess it depends on what your view on a number of other subjects are, such as vigilantism and pacifism.
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@Jabberwocky
What does your revenge entail? I’m curious.
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“If you think I’ve gotten preferential treatment in life because of these things, you’re wrong.”
(This is why I hate happy-shiney people.) Uhhhh….man…I’ve got nothing….I have nothing to say that could help you understand the perspective of less genetically lucky people. Its sooooo different. From the way a McDonalds cashier interacts with you to how you’re percieved in job interviews. This stuff is scientifically documented by the way. And throw charisma on top of that….man, the world is your playground. I…I need to take a break, I’m getting tired. Can someone from the team step in.
“How ’bout you tiger?”
Baby face with no chin, severe speech impediment, Asperger personality, IQ around 140ish, empathetic NiceGuy. I dried up pussy faster than a solar flare in the Saharra focused through a magnifying glass. My wife is hot, but it took a lot of hard work, perserverence through rejection, and sacrifice that I feel like was an undue burden on my life when my intellect should have been focused on curing cancer or discovering a unfied field theory instead. Instead, I became obsessed with and systemitized people, specifically popularity, which is why I’m so likeable now (and likely to be famous one day), but I could talk about myself forever, so I’ll stop there.
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uh, nope. it’s not ‘rookie day’.
i’ve seen you ‘spreading the message’ for decades, and it CLEARLY is NOT catching on.
i myself ‘spread the message’ of not just misandrism, but anti-american imperialism, torture, cowardly drone missile strikes, etc etc. for what feels like eons now.
matter of fact, the u.$ will be in iraq and afghanistan( and iran soon) for the rest of this CENTURY. oops!
nope, its ‘veterans day’. take it from a vet of the net- keep whining on the internet, will never ever ever change anything.
just wait till you get your first female prez, haha. after that, you’ll more fully understand you have no say, no power.
waiting for women to willingly give up their power? okdoke!
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“What does your revenge entail? I’m curious.”
Culturally entrenched shame for being or for having been a feminist. I want the history books to mock the modern versions of the movement. I want people to laugh at the baseness to which it encouraged females to stoop to and cringe at how poorly males were treated and viewed during its reign.
“I guess it depends on what your view on a number of other subjects are, such as vigilantism and pacifism.”
Vigilantism can be good if the system of control is corrupt and immoral.
Pacifism can be good if the system of control can be moved by compassion and reason.
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@Jabberwocky
“Baby face with no chin, severe speech impediment, Asperger personality, IQ around 140ish, empathetic NiceGuy.”
Sounds sexy. I’m glad to hear things worked out for you. Strange to hear that you frequent this so site so readily, when you are married. Especially when, almost everybody here supports one-night-stands as a norm.
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“i’ve seen you ‘spreading the message’ for decades, and it CLEARLY is NOT catching on.”
It’s catching on now.
“waiting for women to willingly give up their power? okdoke!”
We are approaching the problem from multiple angles, but it takes time. The misandry bubble will pop soon enough either way, and we will be poised to rise above the clatter and cacophoney of blame and say:
“Naah,na, na, naah, nah! We told you so!”
Which if you read above, is my form of revenge.
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people have the govt they wanted and deserve.
same with american women, you built monsters and now you regret it, tough shit, deal with it, i did. you wanted cheap toilet paper, you got it! lost all your production jobs in the process, but wal mart loves you.
as for all this hypergamy?
gold diggers like oksana, gibsons former sweetie, as a perfect example. shes just taking a super rich guy for a bad ride, but HE left his wife of 30 years!
and oksana is just doing what any good capitalist would do, get rich by any means.
if i married madonna? ( haha) i would take her for everything i could get, shit, shes worth an estmiated 700 million.
id’ be happy with 50 million, no problem.she just paid her ex 73 million.
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@Chuck : “there are a lot of statistics that are cited and used with regards to divorce, but there has been very little in depth study of the causality of divorce.”
Bull shit. There has been a lot of study into the causality of divorce. Last time I checked, DV, substance abuse, and husband infidelity COMBINED accounted for less than 5% of the reasons women gave for filing for divorce. The remainder of divorces filed by women were predominantly of the “I’ve lost interest in him and can retain all the benefits of marriage without having him around.” variety.
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@Jabberwocky
“Pacifism can be good if the system of control can be moved by compassion and reason.”
This is modern American society my friend. I had alluded to victories of the political segments of the men’s movement before. They were all possible because we could make people care. For the first time in history people are starting to care about males. They’re still very callous to be sure; but, many now look back at event like the Titanic as a ethical catastrophe. We can move them into action; because, we can move to tears.
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“Sounds sexy.”
Are you sure you’re not a girl. You do use a lot of effeminate language structures. No offense.
“Strange to hear that you frequent this so site so readily, when you are married.”
My mom was a feminist of sorts who hated men and let me and my brother know it as we developed psychologically. I could either be a self-loathing mangina, or hate feminist. Feminist also got me fired as an art teacher. I was an awesome teacher. The kids loved me and learned whether I had to trick them into it or not. They were just jealous cuz I didn’t teach like a girl, I taught like a man, and my students loved me for it. They fought for me, tried to save my job. They wrote petition letters and caused all types of chaos. I had autistic students who deeply connected with me who I had to abandon.
“Especially when, almost everybody here supports one-night-stands as a norm.”
No. We support being independent of women. When women do that, its empowering and encouraged. When men do it, its shurking our responsibilities and duties.
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@Jabberwocky
“Uhhhh….man…I’ve got nothing….I have nothing to say that could help you understand the perspective of less genetically lucky people. Its sooooo different.”
I’m in the same conundrum as you. I just don’t get how I can make you see that all men are in the same boat, not just the unpopular or unsuccessful one. Whether rich or poor, whether handsome or ugly, we all are discriminated against under the law.
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@Jabberwocky
“Are you sure you’re not a girl. You do use a lot of effeminate language structures. No offense.”
Lemme check. *Looks down*. Yup, I’ve got a penis.
I take no offence. I borrow their speaking styles sometimes, because sometimes their way of saying things is the most effective. Besides that, it’s fun for me.
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“We can move them into action; because, we can move them to tears.”
And we do that by appealing to their empathy. But if men can be hurting and in pain, why are we not allowed to be angry also. Even I wouldn’t try to control how women feel, just how they act on that feeling. Here, we are just expressing our anger, not acting. In a way, we are pacifist.
Gotta go. Been fun.
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@Jabberwocky
“No. We support being independent of women.”
I’d like to take a moment to point out the four rules pointed out in this article, especially rule 4, “Remember- Sleeping with a woman does not mean you owe her anything. Not a relationship, not a call the next day, not even a promise not to sleep with her sister.” I could be wrong; but, this is extraordinarily close to supporting one-night-stands, at the very least, no? Never seeing her again, nor even calling her again after you fuck? Isn’t that the definition of a one-night-stand?
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@Jabberwocky
“But if men can be hurting and in pain, why are we not allowed to be angry also.”
I’ve never said that men shouldn’t express themselves or their anger. What I have said is that women aren’t inferior to men, contrary to multiple commentators here. Men should express their feelings, I’m the first to say that; but, I’ll I’ve done is express mine, when I’ve argued with these people.
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@Jabberwocky
“Gotta go. Been fun.”
Same here. Have a good day.
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wow:
in response to your questions; no i have never been divorced nor have i had any of those things happen to me. but here is my experience, if you care to hear. while my father was never a deadbeat and while he was there for me and my younger brother for a month or so during the summer and on occasional holidays and weekends, my dad caused 100% of the problems leading up to my parents divorce. he drank and drugged and ran around with other women. After my parents divorced when I was 5 he was supposed to pay $100! a month for child support (this was in the 1980s) for 2 young children. My mother raised my brother and I on an annual income of around $16,000 with the occasional help of my grandmother and great aunt. My mom didn’t try to shaft my dad or lock him up for not paying his share of his responsibilities; she would have rather gone without than continue the cycle that was begun by my father’s father.
You’ll be happy to know that everything is fine today, but it is fine because of my mother and despite my father. My father has battled his demons and I’m proud of him for manning up, admitting his faults, and swallowing his pride rather than taking the chickenshit way out.
The moral here is that there are all kinds of men and all kinds of women. Yes, plenty of men have been screwed by women who were less concerned for their childrens welfare than my mother was for mine, but we only hear about the bad ones. The Spearhead has turned into a forum for highlighting the transgressions committed against men rather than being open to observing the picture. Bad women and transgressed men are put into the spotlight, but this ignores reality. I laugh when men around here try to act as if they care “about the children”; they merely care about the men for the sake of argument and ideology. If anyone really cared about the children and the decline of our society they’d take men to task here as well. But to do that is to be a mangina or a feminist. Well, then I’m a mangina or a feminist.
Perhaps I haven’t come to grips with the fact that The Spearhead is merely a soapbox for disgruntled men (and there are disgruntled men that I empathize with). But if that is the case, we should all be aware that The Spearhead is *designed* to ignore 50% of the problem, and that’s fine. But let’s just be honest about it. And regardless, whatever The Spearhead is designed to accomplish, it isn’t benefiting from idiots like Globalman and others who constantly seek to demean women at every turn.
So then this is a problem with men and their expectations? Perhaps these men feel the same sense of entitlement that so many women are chastized for having? I would agree that marriage doesn’t sound very promising for most, but those decisions are made by men. The Spearhead is now characterized by the most shrill voices among the commenters, and they would rather blame the woes of marriage and LTR entirely on women when it takes 2 to tango.
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Of course some women manipulate men for resources i.e. cash and prizes. Men do the same thing, they manipulate women for pussy. Each sex has its own competitive advantage, their own speciality which they bring to the table. This is the true meaning of “Game”; it is a contest of wits between men and women. Each trying to get over on the other.
Just as women get tit jobs and fake tans in order to pull resources out of men, men have always known this and therefore compete against other men to reach the top of the totem pole *so that they can spend those resources on quality pussy*. There’s no use complaining about it if that’s exactly how the “system” is designed to operate.
As for divorce courts and educational systems against boys and men, those are sentiments I agree with you on. Personally, I feel that like any political situation, feminism has overcompensated in their redress for historical maladies against women, but there will be resistance and recompense for the mistreatment of men that will probably redress the current imbalance and go one step too far in the same direction.
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“historical maladies against women”
This is slightly off-topic but this statement reminded me of one of Nergal’s excellent comments that got stuck in my memory:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1431&hilit=solanas&start=20#p22312
Maybe the MRM hasn’t done enough to concentrate its attack on the ideological foundations of feminism. Whenever one is faced with a problem it is usually wise to attack the root cause of it.
Addressing men’s rights will be easier if you can convince people that feminist ideology is false. There are many ways of doing this but I will say this: just like European extreme right-wing movements have their Holocaust deniers, the MRM needs ‘female oppression deniers’. Many of you will find that parallel outrageous, but think about it. Holocaust deniers got a lot of bad press but they also motivated their supporters and planted in the minds of many people, even politically moderate ones, the thought that the official narrative about the Holocaust is at least partially untrue (the usually cited 6 million figure, for example).
Ask yourselves the question honestly: what if the so-called ‘female oppression’ never actually existed – at least not in the patriarchal West – and was instead made up by feminist propagandists and their cronies? There is at least some truth to this. Nergal explained it in his comment. You should spread the word in articles, homemade documentaries, stories etc. that women’s oppression never actually took place in the West, or at least not in the way feminists would have us believe.
‘Women’s oppression deniers’. Maybe we need them! Just think about the possibilities. Nothing will drive the feminists so insane.
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My two cents on the ‘offensive language’ here: nobody should care about the tone that some commenters write in here. It is offensive. So what? There are many men who want to vent and AFAIK this is pretty much the only website where they can do it. The effect it has on feminists should be of zero importance to you. Feminists are your ideological enemies. You know that, they know that. They will always fight against you regardless of the language you use. If you are offensive, they will use that against you in their propaganda. If you try to play nice they will merely say you sneaks are doing so to cleverly hide your true intentions. You will never win a rational debate against them since they will never engage in one in the first place.
Average women are a different matter though. IF an MRA goes public with his POV and engages in open debate he should obviously not use the kind of language Globalman does since it will scare women off. But we shouldn’t have to watch our tone of language on this site that 99.99% of women will never visit anyway.
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Opressed women? I never believed that shit.
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@ Hollendhund
http://www.avoiceformen.com/2010/04/03/the-myth-of-womens-oppression/
@ Chuck
No, there is a major flaw in you.
One sentence, two points of schoolyard error.
First, I don’t imply anything of the sort. Men commit suicide because they struggle with the loss. I spent twenty years counseling men, a good many of those had the dual pleasure of drug rehab and divorce, and some of them indeed check out from treatment and then check out from life.
They killed themselves because they could not imagine a life without their wives and children. Because the loss devastated them.
And I don’t claim that women file for divorce more often, they do, by a landslide.
I can’t debate with you. You’re too ignorant. You started off posting facts and figures from your dream world and it hasn’t stopped.
You win. Whatever you believe, Chuck. I just don’t have time to educate the ignorance out of you.
Chuck:
“So then this is a problem with men and their expectations? Perhaps these men feel the same sense of entitlement that so many women are chastised for having?”
“The Spearhead is now characterized by the most shrill voices among the commentators, and they would rather blame the woes of marriage and LTR entirely on women when it takes 2 to tango.”
———————————–
Are you fucking kidding me? No really. I can assure you, the bad man/men you describe as your “father” aren’t on here looking to vent or educate themselves about marriage 2.0.
Sense of entitlement? What? To a family and a standard of living he has earned? Respect from his wife, the law, our culture? Equity in education and in health, in family court, in media? Protection from false accusations? Enforcement of custody agreements!
Here’s a hint….”WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE BAD MEN”. We hear it every fucking day and twice on Sundays. It is women and feminism that needs to be exposed. The free ride is over. Until YOU walk a mile in the shoes of my brothers who have been ass raped in court for no other reason than “she felt like it”, then you can lecture me on all the bad men. No one has denied there are bad men. No one! I am not here to reflect on my weaknesses, I am looking for validation for what I have experienced/witnessed. I get it here and a few other sites. I am tired of apologizing for men and I never will again. Lock away the violent idiots, no problem. But if you can’t see a problem with female behavior in the year 2010, you need to get out more…seriously.
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Paul:
I’ll ignore your “Internet Forum shit-talking 101″ tactics. They’re pretty weak as is, so no use for me to dwell on them.
First, you make an unprovable statement in your original piece that men are more dedicated to their relationship than women are. What’s your definition of dedication? A high female initiated divorce rate perhaps implies that women feel that men are less dedicated than they should be. Because of your agenda, you believe that women initiate divorce because they are malevolent or greedy. In my own instance, my mom divorced my father for a myriad of reasons – with the children being better off for it. So we should at least compromise here and understand that a high female-initiated divorce rate doesn’t explain *anything* other than the fact that women file divorce. Exactly why they file divorce is unclear. Yes, some want to get with other men. Yes, some are wenches. But also, many of the men are assholes and crappy dads. And as I mentioned before, men are less apt to file for divorce – even if they are in a miserable or poor relationship.
You show your own bias when you admit that you’ve counseled numerous men who have run into the bad side of divorce. The group *you’ve* dealt with are self-selected as better husbands and better fathers than many of the men I am talking about. Deadbeat dads and assholes usually don’t go to counseling. But of course the argument will now turn to “Oh, well I’m only talking about men with jobs who love their kids and love their wives but get a bad turn”. But how is it possible to have a discussion about men and their relationships if you only want to talk about only a portion of men’s experiences and relationships?
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Whenever I’m in doubt about the position that someone takes, I usually hang back and observe awhile. But every once in a while, a red flag comes up and they give themselves away as a certified mangina. For example:
The implication being, of course, that “redress for historical maladies against women” was due, and that feminists just pushed too hard. This is nonsense. Paul Elam nips this piece of idiocy conclusively in the bud with his piece on the myth of women’s oppression. Women as the provided-for sex were never any more oppressed than men were, they have no claim to make, and there is no compensation due. Nuff said.
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Dr. Elam, how’s the book coming along sir?
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Hollenhund
Heck the official PC narrative of history (up until the mid 20th century) is a spate of ASTRONOMICALLY bad luck on the part of women, blacks, and various other intellectually, emotionally, and physically superior peoples to free themselves from the chains imposed upon them by the most incompetent, retarded bunch of utterly evil things to ever walk the earth…. the evil white dudes.
How about this for women’s oppression denial?
A poster with the three stooges holding dog leashes. On the end of those leashes are women. The caption reads: “This is what your teacher say’s oppressed women for centuries.”
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i’ve been accused many times of being misogynist, but, in reality, i have the ability to see this from all sides-some women bad, some men bad.
once again, i can’t really blame women for their hypergamy and using the sysytem.
wall street fuckers do it daily, the ruling class got rich off the manufacture of weaponry in the cold war, and are once again making a new fortune from it, and manipulating the financial ‘meltdown’ to their advantage.
hollywood nitwits with no talent at all, are making fortunes, and are loved for it!
sets a rather bad example, and women are just using the system to profit.
why should a woman settle for some nobody like me?
intelligence is worthless, in a dumbed down, uneducated ‘culture’ i’m in.looks and money are everything.
ive had friends who had NO ‘game’ trust me on that. but, they had looks, and scored with top hotties, while those same women totally ignored me.
we’d go clubs and without saying ANYTHING an old buddy of mine was literally a chick frickin magnet. it was something to behold, lemme tell ya.
the moral? get rich, or die tryin, or, accept your ‘fate’. i have. i’m no pretty boy, and even though i own my house and have money, the bar has been raised so high, you have to be worth at LEAST millions now to get noticed by quality women
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actually, if you do any reading at all, like howard zinns history of american empire, illusion of empire, by hedges, countless other works, you’ll quickly learn its not ‘pc’ but pure truth that yes, evil white colonialists and imperialists HAVE and still do, invade, kill, torture indigenous peoples, occupy foriegn countries illegally, unconstitutionally, for profit, trying out new killing technologies against ‘terrorists’, which is a name for ANYONE who resists america’s will, and it’s NOT the three stooges!
and women WERE oppressed. the problem is that NOW, that they are equal, they are shooting for SUPREMACY.
and feminsm is SUPPOSED to be about equality.
so, once again, get rich, for quality nookie, or buy the whores. or learn ‘game’but along with ‘game’ you best have some looks too.you can have all the ‘game’ on earth, but if youre ugly? balding? haha, you wont get shit.
according to all the psychologists, women decide in the first minute if they will have sex with you or not, so make a REAL good first impression, lol
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Chuck.
You need to buy a 12 pack and go talk to your dad. And quit being such a mangina. You are going to marry some bitch and do all of the things dad didn’t do and be really good to her. Then your mangina ass will know what being a good husband is all about. About 7 years in is when it starts. You’ll fall in love. move in together and then you’ll take a knee and ask the wonderful woman to marry you. And all is good she said yes. before you ask her to marry chuck you were fucking twice a day. Now that you are in a committed relationship and she is busy making wedding plans and talking about getting married to everyone you are down to 3 times a week. Year later your house is covered with baby this and baby that. All purchased at garage sales(Its cheaper that way) and then it ends the child is walking. My dear wants another baby you over the last year have had sex 8 times have worked two jobs have only held your baby maybe 2 dozeon times and have never been alone with your child. And my dear talks to you like she can have you killed when ever she wants. But at this time she likes having you there to play house. You are having second thoughts now and think one kid won’t be so bad but the mangina takes over and says “be a man” and you have another kid with her. She seems happy for a while and you get to fuck twice a day to get her knocked up. (at that time you will be wishing they had male birth control pills). Now she wants a bigger car and a bigger house and she really has no time for you she has all of these kids to take care of. And besides that don’t you know she can have you killed. Repeat cycle again maybe this time she will really know that you really love her and she won’t treat you like she can have you killed but keeps you around because she has things for you to do.
6 to 7 years in the last kid will be starting school next year and you have a new graduate of nursing school,and a second mortgage to pay for that nursing school. She has her own money now,and decides she should have her own checking account in case something happens to you. You are a good man Chuck gave up 10 years to this woman and guess what, she is going to come home and tell you she has met someone at work that makes her feel young and attractive. And the mangina in you will say ” I love you and I find you very attractive I always have baby.” Nine weeks ago when she last fucked you with her pussy, was the time. The next year and a half you will double down on the mangina love shit. You will be liking her ass hoping for a hint of approval. And one day she will say the kids and I are leaving or the kids and I would like for you to leave. A lot of little details like gatekeeping, needing time for herself, you talking time is abandoning your family were left out to speed things along. Oh yeah and the time your future wife called the cops on you for kidnapping when you tried to take your son to the baseball game after she said no. I left that out so you wouldn’t be embarrassed in front of everybody.
Yeah mangina tell us how to be men. Good luck Chuck you are going to need it.
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Balding is a product of sexual selection.
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1
actually, if you do any reading at all, like howard zinns history of american empire, illusion of empire, by hedges, countless other works, you’ll quickly learn its not ‘pc’ but pure truth that yes, evil white colonialists and imperialists HAVE and still do, invade, kill, torture indigenous peoples, occupy foriegn countries illegally, unconstitutionally, for profit, trying out new killing technologies against ‘terrorists’, which is a name for ANYONE who resists america’s will, and it’s NOT the three stooges!
and women WERE oppressed. the problem is that NOW, that they are equal, they are shooting for SUPREMACY.
and feminsm is SUPPOSED to be about equality.
so, once again, get rich, for quality nookie, or buy the whores. or learn ‘game’but along with ‘game’ you best have some looks too.you can have all the ‘game’ on earth, but if youre ugly? balding? haha, you wont get shit.
according to all the psychologists, women decide in the first minute if they will have sex with you or not, so make a REAL good first impression, lol
Whenever I’m in doubt about the position that someone takes, I usually hang back and observe awhile. But every once in a while, a red flag comes up and they give themselves away as a certified mangina. For example:
Personally, I feel that like any political situation, feminism has overcompensated in their redress for historical maladies against women
The implication being, of course, that “redress for historical maladies against women” was due, and that feminists just pushed too hard. This is nonsense. Paul Elam nips this piece of idiocy conclusively in the bud with his piece on the myth of women’s oppression. Women as the provided-for sex were never any more oppressed than men were, they have no claim to make, and there is no compensation due. Nuff said.
A high female initiated divorce rate perhaps implies that women feel that men are less dedicated than they should be. Because of your agenda, you believe that women initiate divorce because they are malevolent or greedy. In my own instance, my mom divorced my father for a myriad of reasons – with the children being better off for it. So we should at least compromise here and understand that a high female-initiated divorce rate doesn’t explain *anything* other than the fact that women file divorce. Exactly why they file divorce is unclear. Yes, some want to get with other men. Yes, some are wenches. But also, many of the men are assholes and crappy dads. And as I mentioned before, men are less apt to file for divorce – even if they are in a miserable or poor relationship.
You can’t prove anything. But men do suck in many ways. That said it doesn’t really explain divorce. Men already suck before getting into a marriage so why don’ t girls just avoid marriage in the first place. Girls are the first ones to want to get married and the first ones to divorce.
I have a heard time seeing how men can be blamed for the fact that a large majority of divorces are initiated by women.
Chuck, are you divorced? Have you been robbed of your children? Do you pay obscene child support/alimony for the “privilege” of seeing your children (maybe)? Do you work almost solely to meet CS/alimony obligations? Have you lost 50% of everything you worked for? Did you go to college to get 3 degrees only to net $1000 a month after obligations? Did you buy into the marriage fairytale only to be told to “man up” when TSHTF?
You need fucking verifiable stats to prove the suicide rate for men increases post-divorce? Holy fuck dude!
I don’t think The Spearhead is about the “asshole men” out there. It is about men that bought into the “sugar and spice” nature of women hook, line and sinker, and now realize the shit sandwich that marriage and LTRs are.
That men need a NAWALT or “what about the asshole men” fucking disclaimer on every fucking post has reached the nauseating point.
MAAN sounds just like a feminist when they get called out on their circular BS. They want citations, bibliographies and web links. Fuck off!
Fuck ‘em! My 42 years on this planet and my observations are all I need. Stop telling me/us shit that is clear as day.
actually, if you do any reading at all, like howard zinns history of american empire, illusion of empire, by hedges, countless other works, you’ll quickly learn its not ‘pc’ but pure truth that yes, evil white colonialists and imperialists HAVE and still do, invade, kill, torture indigenous peoples, occupy foriegn countries illegally, unconstitutionally, for profit, trying out new killing technologies against ‘terrorists’, which is a name for ANYONE who resists america’s will, and it’s NOT the three stooges!
and women WERE oppressed. the problem is that NOW, that they are equal, they are shooting for SUPREMACY.
and feminsm is SUPPOSED to be about equality.
so, once again, get rich, for quality nookie, or buy the whores. or learn ‘game’but along with ‘game’ you best have some looks too.you can have all the ‘game’ on earth, but if youre ugly? balding? haha, you wont get shit.
according to all the psychologists, women decide in the first minute if they will have sex with you or not, so make a REAL good first impression, lol
Whenever I’m in doubt about the position that someone takes, I usually hang back and observe awhile. But every once in a while, a red flag comes up and they give themselves away as a certified mangina. For example:
Personally, I feel that like any political situation, feminism has overcompensated in their redress for historical maladies against women
The implication being, of course, that “redress for historical maladies against women” was due, and that feminists just pushed too hard. This is nonsense. Paul Elam nips this piece of idiocy conclusively in the bud with his piece on the myth of women’s oppression. Women as the provided-for sex were never any more oppressed than men were, they have no claim to make, and there is no compensation due. Nuff said.
A high female initiated divorce rate perhaps implies that women feel that men are less dedicated than they should be. Because of your agenda, you believe that women initiate divorce because they are malevolent or greedy. In my own instance, my mom divorced my father for a myriad of reasons – with the children being better off for it. So we should at least compromise here and understand that a high female-initiated divorce rate doesn’t explain *anything* other than the fact that women file divorce. Exactly why they file divorce is unclear. Yes, some want to get with other men. Yes, some are wenches. But also, many of the men are assholes and crappy dads. And as I mentioned before, men are less apt to file for divorce – even if they are in a miserable or poor relationship.
You can’t prove anything. But men do suck in many ways. That said it doesn’t really explain divorce. Men already suck before getting into a marriage so why don’ t girls just avoid marriage in the first place. Girls are the first ones to want to get married and the first ones to divorce.
I have a heard time seeing how men can be blamed for the fact that a large majority of divorces are initiated by women.
Chuck, are you divorced? Have you been robbed of your children? Do you pay obscene child support/alimony for the “privilege” of seeing your children (maybe)? Do you work almost solely to meet CS/alimony obligations? Have you lost 50% of everything you worked for? Did you go to college to get 3 degrees only to net $1000 a month after obligations? Did you buy into the marriage fairytale only to be told to “man up” when TSHTF?
You need fucking verifiable stats to prove the suicide rate for men increases post-divorce? Holy fuck dude!
I don’t think The Spearhead is about the “asshole men” out there. It is about men that bought into the “sugar and spice” nature of women hook, line and sinker, and now realize the shit sandwich that marriage and LTRs are.
That men need a NAWALT or “what about the asshole men” fucking disclaimer on every fucking post has reached the nauseating point.
MAAN sounds just like a feminist when they get called out on their circular BS. They want citations, bibliographies and web links. Fuck off!
Fuck ‘em! My 42 years on this planet and my observations are all I need. Stop telling me/us shit that is clear as day.
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Excellent comment greyghost. Chuck will surely be ass-raped in the divorce court in the future with a mentality like this. Codebuster is also right – Chuck seems to have accepted the silly notion that feminism was essentially good but has merely ‘gone too far’.
With respect to women initiating more than 70% of divorces I think the explanation is very simple:
1. Young men are taught by their feminist-indoctrinated teachers and parents to avoid all conflict and be nice, respectful etc. It’s small wonder they will avoid all conflict with their wives.
2. Women have a lot of financial incentives to divorce (whereas men have zero) and they know it. The courts will always side with them.
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The problem is they frequenly get this wrong, for example by saying over and over as if it were one of Newton’s Laws that females are naturally hypergamous and thus desirous of alpha males. They aren’t. Hypergamy is one of the pillars of patriarchy, it is thus an artificial cultural invention, and we all here know how women hate, resist, and want to undermine it. Everything built on the females-are-hypergamous axiom is going to fail miserably and one would do well to do the reverse of what it suggests doing. Much of what Paul says here supports this.
But the point of Game, which I now call Zeta Game, is in recognizing that while neither sex nor women are scarce
You need to move to where I live, which is right at the intersection of Yahoo-ville and Fugly-ville. I see a woman I might actually want to have sex with about every 3-5 years. This doesn’t mean scarcity increases value, it just means absence causes one to totally eliminate any such considerations from ones consciousness. The very rare occasions then are kinda like finding a $10 bill on the sidewalk.
The problem is they frequenly get this wrong, for example by saying over and over as if it were one of Newton’s Laws that females are naturally hypergamous and thus desirous of alpha males. They aren’t. Hypergamy is one of the pillars of patriarchy, it is thus an artificial cultural invention, and we all here know how women hate, resist, and want to undermine it. Everything built on the females-are-hypergamous axiom is going to fail miserably and one would do well to do the reverse of what it suggests doing. Much of what Paul says here supports this.
But the point of Game, which I now call Zeta Game, is in recognizing that while neither sex nor women are scarce
You need to move to where I live, which is right at the intersection of Yahoo-ville and Fugly-ville. I see a woman I might actually want to have sex with about every 3-5 years. This doesn’t mean scarcity increases value, it just means absence causes one to totally eliminate any such considerations from ones consciousness. The very rare occasions then are kinda like finding a $10 bill on the sidewalk.
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john halder,
nothing that white colonialists have ever done compares either in ferocity or scale to the atrocities, massacres and torture that colored indigenous peoples inflicted on each other. There is no reason to be sorry. At least they got access to the advantages of modern civilization from whites, something they would’ve never gotten otherwise.
On another note: if you accept the narrative that women were oppressed than you have already conceded the ideological high ground to the feminists.
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He deserves it.
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John Halder
I do quite a bit of reading thank you very much. But this doesn’t mean that I swallow every piece of PC dreck that comes my way.
By the way this is the Spearhead not Youtube. Please learn to type proper sentences.
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“You need to buy a 12 pack and go talk to your dad. And quit being such a mangina”
Nice shaming language greyghost.
Chuck is entitled to his opinions.. Much of which is based on personal experience..
“In my own instance, my mom divorced my father for a myriad of reasons – with the children being better off for it. So we should at least compromise here and understand that a high female-initiated divorce rate doesn’t explain *anything* other than the fact that women file divorce. Exactly why they file divorce is unclear. Yes, some want to get with other men. Yes, some are wenches. But also, many of the men are assholes and crappy dads. And as I mentioned before, men are less apt to file for divorce – even if they are in a miserable or poor relationship”
Why are his experiences any less valid than yours or any one else’s?
Sorry, just not getting it, here.
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“Exactly why they file divorce is unclear.”
Exactly why men don’t pay child support sometimes is unclear.
(no its not, its because they’re poor)
Exactly why men drop out of school and graduate from college is unclear.
(no its not, its because the education system is sexist)
Exactly why Alphas pump and dump sluts is unclear.
(no its not, its because whores aren’t worthy of commitment)
So why do women initiate divorce more often than men?
Because they are spoiled princesses whose expectations and sense of entitlement are unrealistic. That, or they picked a thug-redneck-caveman type, instead of a niceguy, who treats them like shit, and suddenly they realize that following their “feelings” might not be so smart as a life strategy. Only a small percentage of good women unkowingly pick men who turn out to be douches later on.
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“Why are his experiences any less valid than yours or any one else’s?”
Because this isn’t a forum to talk about bad men. We have the mainstream media for that. This is a forum intent on balancing the scales by pointing out all the bad women and the women who love bad men.
Its not like we don’t believe him, bu he’s just spouting a version of NAWALT. Just because it comes from an alleged man, does not make NAWALT relevent to the general trends we speak of.
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No Jab, me old mate, Chuck is not spouting a version of that old chestnut NAWALT.. sigh..
He is sharing his experiences, just as you have.
He had a crappy Dad.
You had a crappy Mom.
And… never the twain shall meet
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No Jab, me old mate… Chuck is not spouting a version of NAWALT..
He is just relating his own personal experiences… Just like you.
You had a crappy Mom..
He had a crappy Dad…
And…..Never the twain shall meet.
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Sorry for repeating myself, there..
Sheesh!
It’s like Groundhog day
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Crappy moms always have tons of excuses to be crappy. Have you ever heard about “deadbat moms”?
It’s so easy to blame the dads, just because they are males, isn’t it? When it comes about pregnancy, parenting, dads have exactly zero choice and zero rights, that’s always forgotten somehow. Someone who feels oneself trapped, easily tends to change an asshole. However, i don’t deny there are irresponsible males out there, who are irresponsible by nature.
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“No Jab, me old mate, Chuck is not spouting a version of that old chestnut NAWALT.. sigh..”
Lets take a vote to see how many people think he’s spouting a slightly different version of NAWALT, by basically saying in his parents divorce the male was to blame vs the female. He’s defending women initiating 70% of the divorces by saying “Not all divorces are like that” or in otherwords, Sometimes men are like that too, or “SMALTT”. We aren’t here to discuss how bad men can be. What next, should we focus on how “male” Hitler is now?
I’m getting so frustrated they made me brake Godwin’s law.
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“I’m getting so frustrated they made me brake Godwin’s law.”
You and me both, mate.
Would you like Chuck to lie, and say that his Dad was the antz pantz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU59Vq-nxjg
Srsly?
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“I’m getting so frustrated they made me brake Godwin’s law.”
You and me both Jab!
Would you rather Chuck lie and say his Dad was the antz pantz, then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU59Vq-nxjg
BTW the previous anonymous comment was mine.
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Maybe the beez neez, even?
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“Would you rather Chuck lie and say his Dad was the antz pantz, then?”
I’d rather he not try to invalidate our general observations by using a NAWALT excuse. I don’t mind him telling us about his life, but to use his life like its some sorta example of a broader truth is not going to fly. We accept that some husbands are shitty and cause divorces. We do not deny that. His point then is irrelevent to the general conensus here that the primary cause of our divorce culture is females.
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* “ant’s pants. Someone or something considered the ultimate in style, novelty or cleverness. ”
* Aussie slang for the uninitiated..
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Okay, point taken, Jab.
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oooo… ‘this is the- ‘spearhead’ aka- just one of a few million websites- and a place for bitter joes who cant get pussy go to whine- learn to type sentences correctly.
uh, nah, i’ll type the way i wanna, mr grammer policeman. i just type like most do, with 2 fingers.
gotta love that male shaming language though, great job!
wow though, howard zinn and noam chomsky write pc drek?
o.k then, keep watching / reading glenn beck then.
hey, he might just be our next prez, or maybe palin.
by the time most of you wake up, this country will be in ashes, as the MOST evil empire on earth, and in history, i wont shed a tear,i’m not one of the 2 percenters, so i don’t care.
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^^^
Sounds like somebody drank strong kool-aid.
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if you mean by reading and researching, you best drink some of that kool aid yourself. the trust is indeed out there, dont be scared of knowledge.
i recommend chris hedges, chomsky, zinn, sartre, chalmers johnson, and slavoj zizek.
def NOT ‘pc’, the opposite, in fact.
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oops, i would be remiss if i didnt mention ralph nader.
in fact, it wouldve been real sweet if, instead of electing a black man you racists despise, you’d voted in nader. unlike the war loving capitalist/ corporatist obama, nader hates the corporations and the criminals on wall street. plus, he’s white!
oh well too late now.
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““Has somebody been asking for your opinion?”
Did anybody ask for your comment? No…then shut the fuck up.”
Ass man: kiss my hairy ass.
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It’s always funny to me that a lot of the very same types on this board who abhor shaming language from feminists use it on other men when it suits their purpose.
greyghost:
dude, we don’t need a rehash of your life story. Sorry you got taken to the cleaners by a woman; while I’m fully aware of the existence of such women, my whole argument is that The Spearhead has reached hyperbolic realms in discussing the topic.
Men “settle down” for a number of reasons. First, they want to lock down consistent pussy. While a married wife doesn’t exactly put forth with pussy as much as a girlfriend, like any investment in an asset i.e. stocks, bonds, we trade off risk for reward. As the certainty of our returns increase we make tradeoffs for decreased returns. In the sexual realm, as sex becomes more certain we receive less of it. Of course, we could practice Game and rotate women and never have to “put all our eggs in one basket”, but realistically, this turns into a grind at some point. At some point, men just want to drop out of the rat race and settle down. Some of us.
I’ll grant you that your little scenario purposely ignores the flip side of the coin. It ignores all of the single men who refuse to settle down and use women more than they deserve to be used and lie and abuse them. Your story also ignores all of the married men who cheat or dip out on their children. I get that you’re talking about a small subset of men, and that you believe that The Spearhead is a forum to talk about this small subset of men. Personally, I have a different take on what The Spearhead is all about; it’s about *men’s issues*, as in issues that pertain to *all* men. But some of the more vitriolic voices here have taken over. You’ve all shouted down any dissenting voice that doesn’t match the “all women suck, all men are victims/suckers” to the point that very few dissenting voices write here anymore.
Now, just so that I can pay my dues to the sentiments of what you wrote; perhaps I would have fallen victim to some of the things you predict that I will if I wouldn’t have been exposed to some of the more extreme voices and opinions here and through Roissy et al. Now I know what to look for and what to avoid and how to carry myself and how to behave.
Hollenhund:
I wonder if you’d interpret some of the statistics listed here.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/marriage/debunking-divorce-myths.htm
One says that female’s standard of living plummets 27% after divorce while men’s increases 10%. If divorce were largely financially-motivated, why would women accept a lower standard of living? Shouldn’t they be gaining from a divorce?
I mean, greyghost up above was complaining about having to pay for all this stuff that his hypothetical wife wants and that’s while he was married. So on the one hand, being married is a money pit, but on the other men get taken to the cleaners during divorce. Again, which is it?
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You need to buy a 12 pack and go talk to your dad. And quit being such a mangina”
So you think that is shaming language huh kathy? Look honey men are talking you don’t have shit to add to the conversation. You don’t live in and could not handle living in the world men live in. So mind your business.
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I am glad that I chose to remain single. And chose to remain in northern Canada.
The females here, often resort to making the fathers of their children jealous.
many times, I had observed that once a man knocks a woman up, they’re now common law couples. Even though they’re cohabiting.
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greyghost:
stop being so f-ing dramatic. this isn’t the wild west nor is it 14th century europe. get some perspective.
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Paul Elam July 21, 2010 at 17:22
“They killed themselves because they could not imagine a life without their wives and children. Because the loss devastated them.”
Paul, thank you for putting this out there from your counselling background. I have talked to quite a number of men now who were suicidal for quite a period. Some for years. Some of them have told me they have put the gun in their mouth and just could not pull the trigger. I really hurts me to the bone when a man tells me he is in so much pain he’s tried to kill himself and just can’t do it. A few of these smart arse kids should talk to some men in that position. They might learn something.
I have talked at length with a number of men about my period of being suicidal and how I found my way out of that and my life now. Pretty much every single man thanks me profusely for doing that and tells me my story gives them hope to keep going. They say it is very rare to hear a man say that life is MUCH better once the dust has settled. Some do not like my approach but ALL agree that if I love the life I am living I have a right to do what is I am doing as I am doing no-one harm.
For the lurkers who are new. In the month I was suicidal one of the problems was ‘I have been a ‘family man’ since I was about 5′. As a little boy I loved my mum and figured that one day I would have my own family. My dad, since I can remember so that must be about 3, always said to me ‘if you get lucky you will get a wife like your mum’. My dad loved my mum to bits and she in return.
So, when it became clear to me not even my (allegedly) own children cared about me the question was ‘who will I be now?’. I have had one goal all my life. To have my own family, and that included children and grand children. As Paul absolutely correctly points out, the loss IS devastating. For many men it is the primary driver for considering suicide.
In the end I chose to deconstruct ‘family man’ and as I spent about two weeks considering who I would be I invented an identity that evolved into ‘GlobalMan’. A ‘GlobalMan’ is a sovereign who has no allegiences to any collective or any group. Not a ‘country’, not a ‘society’, nothing. A GlobalMan exercises his rights without respect to what others say, think or feel. He eats good, drinks good, has a few favs to have a bit of fun with and earns some ‘money’ to ‘pay’ for the above. A Globalman denounces injustice, lies and hypocrisy where he sees them. And I see it in western women. A Globalman does his best to help his brothers all around the world, he helps those less able to help themselves.
I was just talking to some guys at lunch and they asked me why I have spent so much time and money on this project. I told them how many men kill themselves, which came as a complete shock to them, and I told them when I was a boy my dad told me to ‘help those less able to help themselves’. I told them I have no respect for any man who will not help stop the needless deaths of so many men. They were quite taken aback. But one noted….’You know, you are absolutely right’ and his colleague nodded in agreement. I now speak out freely and boldly where ever I am. I will denounce western women as liars and hypocrites until they change their ways. I will assist men avoid the abuse handed to them by women as much as those men are willing to avoid that abuse. I am one man women should have listened to. Now? I have no listening for western women. None at all. They are dead to me.
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Chuck good to see you back. That story was just a made up as you go story. But is is a common sense take on how things go. Also men don’t marry to have steady pussy. Men marry to be bigger than themselves and to share that with a woman. As you stated in your own experience and as it themes your views and how you comment on the issues I can see you will make a real effort to make a very special home for a wife and child. You sound like a good man for a woman to marry Chuck. You will work your ass.
Women and wives cost more than money.
You mentioned the flip side Chuck. What about the bad men side. Try hard to learn about the modern dynamics of relationships. It will answer a lot of questions and explain reasons (not justification) for bad behavior. Most of us here spoke just like you when we were 19, 20 years old and knew we were going to make it right. As I said be fore good luck.
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Kathy July 22, 2010 at 05:58
“Sorry, just not getting it, here.”
That is because you are a woman. Go away. You are NOT welcome. Take note:
“I will denounce western women as liars and hypocrites until they change their ways.” That would mean you too sweetie.
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john halder July 22, 2010 at 00:45
“you have to be worth at LEAST millions now to get noticed by quality women”
John. Date eastern european chicks if you can. They do want money but their tastes are very inexpensive. This does need to be managed. Example? I had a feeling that my fav#1 and I would not last another year. I sent her a text to offer to buy her a special gift for her birthday. I gave what I would consider a nominal budget of EUR500 for this gift. I told her to buy something that, should we part, she would keep forever and would remind her how much I appreciated her help. She CALLED me to ask me if I really sent the text. She thought it might have been Mr. Truth (whom she knows) playing a joke on me. I laughed so hard at that. So anyway. I told her it was fine. I told her my suggestion was a necklace that suited her elegance. A few days later she called me from the shop she was in. She had been searching for a couple of days and finally found the necklace she wanted. It was EUR350. She called me again to make SURE I was ok with her spending EUR350 on this necklace because no-one has EVER spent that much on her in her life. I laughed so hard. And told her to buy the necklace. It is a beautiful piece. Really beautiful. It suites her well. My ex? She’d spend EUR3-4,000 on the amex card and just ‘let it turn up’. Big difference.
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Chuck July 22, 2010 at 11:05
Chuck, you are a stupid mangina. If you’d kept your mouth shut you might have been thought wise.
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“my whole argument is that The Spearhead has reached hyperbolic realms in discussing the topic.”
Perhaps some of us exagerate for effect at times. Perhaps other times the pain and devastation women cause to men’s lives can never be adequetly described. To write us all off as over the top is dismissive, especially considering the diversity of voices found here. Many of us here have very healthy relationships with women, but this just isn’t the place to talk about that. It not the purpose of this site. We also have female commentors who support us and female article writers. Why do you think they are here if we are just a bunch of extreme women haters. I think most people would agree that females are just people, flawed like men, but who have been allowed by our culture and laws to act in their most selfish interests.
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In the north, before my grandfather’s time. Women were told to be quiet. For obvious reasons.
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Chuck July 22, 2010 at 10:41
“One says that female’s standard of living plummets 27% after divorce while men’s increases 10%. If divorce were largely financially-motivated, why would women accept a lower standard of living? Shouldn’t they be gaining from a divorce?”
This is what it says: “A reanalysis of the data determined that the woman’s loss was 27 percent while the man’s gain was 10 percent. Irrespective of the magnitude of the differences, the gender gap is real and seems not to have narrowed much in recent decades.” The study they are referring to was totally floored in the first place. It was for poor black women in the ghettos if I recall correctly. It was NOT for middle class white women or wealthy women. Bullshit like this is spread around like facts. They are NOT facts. They are lies for the most part.
The courts are vastly biased. The STARTING point where the man has MASSIVELY out contributed the woman is 60/40 to the woman plus bogus alimony and child support. That I can stand here and tell you that in my case the Austrailan Federal Magistrates Court stole 95% of the proceeds of my labour and this FACT is in front of the Ausrtalian Prime Minister as a CRIME should tell you all you need to know. The REASON the womans ‘standard of living’ falls is because they are incapable of managing money. They ASKED the women if they FELT their standard of living has declined. Suprise, surprise they say yes.
As far as mens standard of living improving this is a blatant lie for the vast majority of men. I am a BIG exception. Men are robbed blind. Try reading a real book on the issue you ignorant fuckwit. Stephen Baskervilles ‘Taken into Custody’ for a start. And shut the fuck up with your mangina fucking opinion that so many men here have already told you they are not interested in hearing. Fuckwits like you are a BIG part of the problem. Go educate yourself. You are stupid and ignorant and it shows.
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And this is why its good to have Globalman on our team.
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This is why I don’t deal with western women. Listen to how these women shreik and whine. They can’t even talk properly like Marc does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ZtjGJ4LD4
Divorce makes men happy because they get rid of the boat anchor of the women!!
“When men are married to women who scream like you they just want to die sooner.”
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Uhh, this was horrible. It brought back memories i don’t want to remember.
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Uhh, that was horrible. Brought back memories i don’t want to remember.
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Game really is ending. A PUA (pick up artist) faces rape charges for misleading his target in Israel. It’s just a matter of time before this happens here.
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/07/20/2740127/court-jails-arab-for-posing-as-jew
Israeli court: Rape charge for Arab posing as a Jew
July 20, 2010
JERUSALEM (JTA) — An Israeli court ruled that consensual sex between a Jewish woman and an Arab posing as a Jew constituted rape.
On Monday, the Jerusalem District Court sentenced Sabbar Kashur, 30, an Arab from Jerusalem, to 18 months in prison as part of a plea bargain for rape by deception.
Kashur met a Jewish woman in downtown Jerusalem in 2008 and introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship, the indictment said, according to media reports. The couple then went to a nearby building and had consensual sexual intercourse; Kashur then left.
The woman filed a complaint after realizing that Kashur was not Jewish.
The court ruled that the consent for sex was obtained under false pretenses.
“If she hadn’t thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated,” the judges wrote.
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Speechless July 22, 2010 at 12:36
LOL!! Sweetie……to characterise him as a PUA and claim game is ending because the femnazis claim if a man lies to a woman to get sex no consent happened is all a joke. What if every woman who lied to a man to get a baby was jailed for rape? Half the western women would be in jail. This is just another blatant case of femnazis legal privilege. It is one more example why ALL MEN should deny consent to be governed.
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What game, there’s no such thing as a game. When breeding it comes down to snagging a woman who would be the mother of his children.
Men and women always have disagreements.
Skip to the present.
Women are always itching for a fight. They don’t have the concept of being responsible. In fact the women had became the idiotic sex.
Children have become cashcow of she-men. And divorce, a revenue for despicable women.
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Jabberwocky:
“Many of us here have very healthy relationships with women, but this just isn’t the place to talk about that. It not the purpose of this site. ”
With all due respect, it seems as if you are projecting your own wishes for this site onto everyone else here. Because this is a men’s issues site. Men’s issues have a wide range. They can involve positive experiences with women or negative ones. Again, you and others who only want to talk about the malevolence of women don’t get to dictate what this site is about a priori. Of course, you all can shape the site to fit your worldview – which is obviously happening as we type. So the site may end up taking on the characteristics you think it should, but just know that that wasn’t the intended purpose.
To me, the site would benefit from a lot more man-shaming. And I’m not talking about shaming men for chasing pussy or for being what you all call manginas. I’m talking about shaming for behaving in ways that make it hard for other men to get a fair shake from society.
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@Chuck
A sign of healthy relationship between a husband and his wife is disagreements. never verbal matches. Disagreements often arises within the stable marriage. That’s the fact of life. and there’s nothing wrong with it.
A remaining few have healthy relationship.
that’s about it.
In the old days women were never hospitable toward outsiders, even when a husband invites him in. Obvious reason, she doesn’t know the person the husband invited. Back then women had common sense, and they rely on instinct.
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globalman is the one who got his ass taken to the cleaners and spends so much of his time on internet forum boards trying to “teach” us aka convince us of his loony NWO conspiracies.
who is the fuckwit? of the intimate relationships i’ve had with women i’ve never been coerced into marriage nor have i been gravely wronged by them. i’ve been able to procure and maintain relationships that allowed me the freedom to pretty much do as i wish within those relationships. it seems to me that men here want to blame marriage and marrying women as the problem with the whole thing. perhaps that is true, but why dump completely on the women? after all, its guys like globalman who were naive enough to get taken as he did. man up and take your share of the blame by focusing on what men could do differently rather than it being about the depravity of women.
also, let me point out, there are maybe 5 VERY LOUD voices on this site who actually pay attention to globalman. don’t mistake magnitude of the chattering class for a large number of followers.
globalman may have his axe to grind, but he completely lacks perspective on this issue. being as narcissistic and globalman-centric as he is, he thinks that every other man experiences the same things he has experienced. in other words, he can’t relate to anyone outside of a few marginal men that tend to show up in places like this. if globalman wants to be a voice that *men* respect, he needs to impart some sort of wisdom that doesn’t turn men who aren’t of a similar camp away from what he has to say. i was completely primed for a new way of thinking given my reading roissy and others, but globalman completely squashed that with his inane ramblings and his over the top conjecture. so while you may see a few strong voices rah-rahing for globalman and his ilk, realize that there are plenty of other men behind the scenes who are turned off by the shit he spews. of course we rarely hear from them because they just forgo visiting the site or even thinking about the issues anymore. globalman does more harm than good.
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Chuck,
“I wonder if you’d interpret some of the statistics listed here.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/marriage/debunking-divorce-myths.htm
One says that female’s standard of living plummets 27% after divorce while men’s increases 10%.”
Globalman has already replied to this so the only thing I want to add is that I vaguely remember Novaseeker commenting on this exact study a couple of months ago on this site and he also pointed out that it is very biased, for example it doesn’t take into account that child support payments are tax-deductible or something like that. I’ll try to find his comment when I have more time.
On another note, I hope you keep your blog running and I wish you the best. I agree with Ferdinand Bardamu that pretty lies should always be confronted, even if they arise in the MRM or the PUAsphere. I don’t think most commenters here believe that all women are incapable of moral good. But I doubt you can argue with the fact that current Western societies incentivize deviant and pathological female behavior.
On yet another note…
…I posted this on another site but I think it bears repeating here:
“This is slightly off-topic but I just realized that feminists practice twisted logic on purpose when justifying divorce and child support laws. They always talk about ‘putting the interests of the child first’. Well, let’s examine this a little closer.
Let’s take an average American married couple with two young children as an example. The husband is a clueless beta who sucks up to his wife, thereby making her as dry as sandpaper. He has zero knowledge of female sexuality but he is a dutiful provider who brings home the bacon. The wife is repelled, bored and frustrated. She feels this is not what she signed up for and therefore wants a divorce. Would feminists support her decision? Obviously yes. Would anyone who puts the interests of the two children first do that as well? No. Children are emotionally hurt by divorce and a stable two-parent household is the best environment for them to grow up in. If the wife REALLY put her children’s interests first, she would not file for divorce just because she is destined to be sexually unfulfilled and is repulsed by her loser beta husband. She would suck it up and never let her children know that she is unhappy since they need a financially stable two-parent household. Wife and husband would just pretend that everything is fine = the young kids grow up happy.
(Needless to say, this doesn’t apply if the husband is an unemployed abusive alcoholic/drug user. But such husbands are the minority. Most wives who file for divorce do not do so for such reasons.)
So wifey files for divorce, wants legal and physical custody of the children, expects big sums of child support and tries to strip the father of visitation rights. She has a good chance of getting all these things. Would your average feminist support her? Of course. And what is the reasoning? ‘The interests of the child have to come first’ – which is a blatant lie. In fact, the interests of the vengeful, merciless WIFE come first.
Feminists are very good at propaganda. The talk about the interests of the child WHEN that benefits the wife who just wants the family court to punish her beta husband. When said wife files for divorce in the first place, they talk about a woman’s right to exit an unfulfilling relationship where she feels neglected, her right to decide her fate etc.
Let’s cut through the BS. Feminists don’t give a damn about children. They probably know well that children of divorced single mothers are more prone to crime, depression, suicide and other forms of deviant behavior. The stats are available. They only care about women’s completely unrestrained, unchecked freedom. They talk about the ‘interests of the child’ as an appeal to emotion, which is probably the oldest and most effective propaganda tactic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
After all, who would dare to publicly oppose someone who talks about putting the interests of the child first? What bastard doesn’t care about children?!…”
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“With all due respect, it seems as if you are projecting your own wishes for this site onto everyone else here.”
I would say that I’m filtering everyones wishes through my immensely powerful cognitive abilities and distilling them out through my rhetoric into the sublime poetry that are my words.
“Because this is a men’s issues site. Men’s issues have a wide range. They can involve positive experiences with women or negative ones.”
No one censors men from talking about positive experiences with women here.
“Again, you and others who only want to talk about the malevolence of women don’t get to dictate what this site is about a priori.”
And yet our influence is vast and powerful. Some people are born leaders.
“Of course, you all can shape the site to fit your worldview – which is obviously happening as we type. So the site may end up taking on the characteristics you think it should, but just know that that wasn’t the intended purpose.”
We have a direct and consistent dialouge with the site’s founder, Welmer, in the comments section, and he I believe he believes this little experiment of his is working out quite well, but I’ll let him talk for himself. He has concerns obviously, but he understands the importance of free speech, and has realized that the magic that open level of dialouge has created is driving his viewership.
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“I’m talking about shaming for behaving in ways that make it hard for other men to get a fair shake from society.”
Chuck, may I ask you to be more specific? What kinds of behavior are you talking about exactly?
And why do you think manginas shouldn’t be shamed? Currently they aren’t shamed by anyone and they are freely spreading their idiotic views around society.
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“who is the fuckwit? of the intimate relationships i’ve had with women i’ve never been coerced into marriage nor have i been gravely wronged by them.”
Good for you. You must be very Alpha, a real natural who leaves women better off than you found them. Would you like to rub your good fortune into our noses some more, or maybe shame us for not being real men. Oh wait, that comes in a little bit….
“i’ve been able to procure and maintain relationships that allowed me the freedom to pretty much do as i wish within those relationships.”
Are you a good looking millionaire athlete? And you say we’re hyperbolic.
“it seems to me that men here want to blame marriage and marrying women as the problem with the whole thing. perhaps that is true, but why dump completely on the women? after all, its guys like globalman who were naive enough to get taken as he did.”
Now your just being an ass. Hindsight is 20/20, and blaming someone for being ambushed is disingenious. Globalman did right by his wife and her children. He was a noble father and a dedicated family man. She screwed him over with the full force of the governments misandric laws behind her.
“man up and take your share of the blame by focusing on what men could do differently rather than it being about the depravity of women.”
Here’s the shaming language with the oldest and bestest shaming phrase of all: Man up. Be a man. Take it like a man. What a joke you are if you think that does anything but entrench us in our positions. We ARE doing things differently. We are going our own way and spreading the lessons we have learned at The Spearhead so other men will know better.
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A Christian perspective from some guys blog called matthew5sixteen.
For a little change of pace.
Posted by matthew5sixteen in Uncategorized.
“You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty.” (Psalm 18:27.)
In an April 10, 2008 article, Dr. Helen Smith of Pajamas Media wrote about how some men keep other men down. The article discusses some of those men who have positions of authority in society and who use their power, whether intentionally or not, to oppress men who are poor and weak in society. The article also discusses how some ordinary men tend to keep down other ordinary men.
Dr. Helen Smith’s article is good, but there is a part of it which I would like to highlight as being exceptional. It is the part where she references an article by Roy F. Baumeister, a professor of Psychology at Florida State University. Dr. Helen Smith quotes Baumeister’s article, using it to discuss the illusion that all men have the power in society.
Baumeister, in his article, says, “one unfortunate legacy of feminism has been the idea that men and women are basically enemies. I shall suggest, instead, that most often men and women have been partners, supporting each other rather than exploiting or manipulating each other.
Nor is this about trying to argue that men should be regarded as victims. I detest the whole idea of competing to be victims. And I’m certainly not denying that culture has exploited women. But rather than seeing culture as patriarchy, which is to say a conspiracy by men to exploit women, I think it’s more accurate to understand culture (e.g., a country, a religion) as an abstract system that competes against rival systems — and that uses both men and women, often in different ways, to advance its cause.”
Baumeister mentions, “when some women systematically looked up at the top of society and saw men everywhere: most world rulers, presidents, prime ministers, most members of Congress and parliaments, most CEOs of major corporations, and so forth — these are mostly men.
Seeing all this, the feminists thought, wow, men dominate everything, so society is set up to favor men. It must be great to be a man.
The mistake in that way of thinking is to look only at the top. If one were to look downward to the bottom of society instead, one finds mostly men there too. Who’s in prison, all over the world, as criminals or political prisoners? The population on Death Row has never approached 51% female. Who’s homeless? Again, mostly men. Whom does society use for bad or dangerous jobs? US Department of Labor statistics report that 93% of the people killed on the job are men.”
Baumeister states, “Culture has plenty of tradeoffs, in which it needs people to do dangerous or risky things, and so it offers big rewards to motivate people to take those risks. Most cultures have tended to use men for these high-risk, high-payoff slots much more than women. I shall propose there are important pragmatic reasons for this. The result is that some men reap big rewards while others have their lives ruined or even cut short. Most cultures shield their women from the risk and therefore also don’t give them the big rewards. I’m not saying this is what cultures ought to do, morally, but cultures aren’t moral beings. They do what they do for pragmatic reasons driven by competition against other systems and other groups.”
Baumeister discusses the observation that men, statistically speaking, represent both extremes. As an example, Baumeister presents the statistical observation that with regards to IQ, there are more smart men than there are smart women. But there are also more dumb men than there are dumb women. The statistical distribution of men, when it comes to IQ, is at the two extremes. He states that this statistical observation is also true with regards to height. There are “more really tall and really short men.”
Baumeister, in his article, references an interesting discovery: That Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. He states, “I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.” And he says, “For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.
For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).”
Baumeister states, “In terms of the biological competition to produce offspring, then, men outnumbered women both among the losers and among the biggest winners.” He says, “Tradeoffs again: perhaps nature designed women to seek to be lovable, whereas men were designed to strive, mostly unsuccessfully, for greatness.” And he says, “And it was worth it, even despite the ‘mostly unsuccessfully’ part. Experts estimate Genghis Khan had several hundred and perhaps more than a thousand children. He took big risks and eventually conquered most of the known world. For him, the big risks led to huge payoffs in offspring. My point is that no woman, even if she conquered twice as much territory as Genghis Khan, could have had a thousand children. Striving for greatness in that sense offered the human female no such biological payoff. For the man, the possibility was there, and so the blood of Genghis Khan runs through a large segment of today’s human population. By definition, only a few men can achieve greatness, but for the few men who do, the gains have been real. And we are descended from those great men much more than from other men. Remember, most of the mediocre men left no descendants at all.”
Baumeister’s article continues, discussing topics such as “are women more social,” “traded off traits,” “benefits of cultural systems,” “men and culture,” “what men are good for,” “the disposable male” and “earning manhood.”
Baumeister concludes, “A few lucky men are at the top of society and enjoy the culture’s best rewards. Others, less fortunate, have their lives chewed up by it. Culture uses both men and women, but most cultures use them in somewhat different ways. Most cultures see individual men as more expendable than individual women, and this difference is probably based on nature, in whose reproductive competition some men are the big losers and other men are the biggest winners. Hence it uses men for the many risky jobs it has.
Men go to extremes more than women, and this fits in well with culture using them to try out lots of different things, rewarding the winners and crushing the losers.
Culture is not about men against women. By and large, cultural progress emerged from groups of men working with and against other men. While women concentrated on the close relationships that enabled the species to survive, men created the bigger networks of shallow relationships, less necessary for survival but eventually enabling culture to flourish. The gradual creation of wealth, knowledge, and power in the men’s sphere was the source of gender inequality. Men created the big social structures that comprise society, and men still are mainly responsible for this, even though we now see that women can perform perfectly well in these large systems.
What seems to have worked best for cultures is to play off the men against each other, competing for respect and other rewards that end up distributed very unequally. Men have to prove themselves by producing things the society values. They have to prevail over rivals and enemies in cultural competitions, which is probably why they aren’t as lovable as women.
…Again, I’m not saying it’s right, or fair, or proper. But it has worked. The cultures that have succeeded have used this formula, and that is one reason that they have succeeded instead of their rivals.”
Baumeister makes a compelling argument with an appeal to our scientific nature. But science is based on what is observable, testable, and provable. What happens when we enter the realm of what we can’t observe, test or prove?
Consider the following, “We are here for only a moment, visitors and strangers in the land as our ancestors were before us. Our days on earth are like a passing shadow, gone so soon without a trace.” (1 Chronicles 29:15.) “But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ…” (Philippians 3:20.) These verses indicate that what the world tells us about our existence is incomplete. It is incomplete because the world can only explain that part of our existence which is observable. But the part which is unobservable is the most rewarding part.
The observable world has winners and losers. The difference between the world and the kingdom of heaven is that in the world, the winners and losers are so based on effort. In the kingdom of heaven, the winners and losers are so based on faith.
The greatest in the world are those who have power and riches. They achieve great things in the eyes of men. They are haughty. They are greatly esteemed. And the least in the world are those who are weak and poor. Their achievements amount to little in the eyes of men. They are humble. They are greatly despised.
I leave you with this verse: “Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:4.)
Matthew5sixteen.
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@ Speechless
Good link. I ran it on my site with commentary.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/2010/07/22/and-we-sell-these-people-weapons/
From what I’ve been reading I think that American men are particularily victimized by the overall litigatious nature of the U.S. While abuses are not uncommon in Canada or Europe I don’t think they are quite as rampant as in America. What I am getting from the discussion is that Marriage 1.0 would be fine by most guys, even with adjustments to the realities of birth control and the subsequent rise of grrrrrl power. I myself have recently gotten married to a woman who is 5 years older and earns significantly more than I do… This definitely has titled the traditional rights and responsibilities on their head. I am the one who is more concerned about carving out my space. My wife is in many ways more Alpha than I am but then mostly in the respects that enable her to earn so much more than me. I have had to stake claims on the things that are important to me in terms of feeling in control of my personal development within the development of our relationship. There are arguments but we are both in our 40s and so have the maturity to understand that relationships are at their very core transactional and that what marriage is ultimately about is companionship with someone that you enjoy spending time with and that you TRUST.
Clearly there is a lack of TRUST of women by men out there and it is understandable because women are getting the best of all worlds now. They have the financial clout to pack up and walk away and those who don’t have the law on their side to assist them gouge the male partner who might not have seen any of it coming. Single men who don’t effortlessly make bundles of cash, are born with it, or do not easily acquire and maintain some form of status (betas I suppose) are under siege. I agree that a balance needs to be restored.
A good place to start would be to somehow to reduce the importance of getting laid as the be-all and end-all of personal self-realization (for men AND women). The internet-driven, porn-influenced zeitgeist of easy sexual gratification must be mitigated or at least examined and re-defined.. For all the talk of porn objectifying women in reality it seems to dehumanize men even more. Other than the squinted face of man blowing his load 90% of a sex flick is a woman servicing or being serviced by disembodied cocks. Is there a concern that if a man’s upper body were to be included in more than 10% of the shots that somehow the predominantly male viewer might confuse his arrousal with tinges of homosexuality?
I have no objections to eroticism which can include the most graphic sex imaginable…but deprived of any art-historical/pshycological/filmic context the kind of hedonisic-fuck-frenzy free-for all that seems to be the going thing is simply symptomatic of a depraved culture.
One need not look much further than the economy as a proof of that.
You end up with the partner(s) you deserve and that ends up shaping the civilization that we end up with. If the former and the latter don’t measure up then it’s time to start a dialogue between the sexes so that we can negotiate a New Deal. Cause this depression we are going through is far more profound than simply an economic one.
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Jabberwocky:
And yet many other guys here continue to throw the term “mangina” around to any guy who doesn’t buy wholesale into their arguments. Seems we have two dialectically opposed forms of shaming language.
I’ll just sum up the point I’m driving at…there are a bunch of idiot men in this world, and I’m past the point of pretending that there aren’t and that men are victims and that women are using the full force of government to screw men over. Yes, there are certain laws and fundamental policies that are misandristic, but at the same time society and culture are still pretty male friendly. As I keep saying, we need perspective. I’m trying to offer a little bit, or at least a dissenting voice so that we can’t prevent groupspeak from ruling the roost. Because that’s what I see. Lots and lots of groupspeak. Patting like minded men on the back and acceptance of conjecture. Meanwhile, even though you all claim that dissention is acceptable on this board, it obviously isn’t. Really, though, I shouldn’t be surprised, as this happens on any forum and message board in any niche of the internet. My ultimate point, I guess, is that I see a lot of hypocrisy in how things are discussed around here. You all are dissenters – you’ve dissented from PC BS spouted in the media – which is good. But you don’t handle dissention from your party-line very well which is paradoxical, to me. You decry shaming language, but you use shaming language to shame shamers. And finally, you cherry pick situations and certain men’s experiences as the talisman by which every man should either learn from or model his life after.
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@Chuck
Obviously i know nothing about you, but i bet you’re under 30, no kids, no serious relationships yet, so basically you have time to learn…
I could say your arrogance is unacceptable, but i will not. IMHO free speech is more important, than respect.
Thats pure BS, you will see later.
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“society and culture are still pretty male friendly”
That has to be the most hilarious statement I’ve read on this site in a long time.
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@GM: “Bullshit like this is spread around like facts. They are NOT facts. They are lies for the most part.”
And lies are told by liars. Seen any lately? They are often closely associated with gross and absurd mischaracterizations, such as believing a mangina is simply one who doesn’t completely agree with something (2nd runner up- that approaching sex with a woman as an equal (i.e., not owing her anything, nor she you) somehow is transmogrified into an endorsement of ONSs to the exculsion of any other type of relationship). Welmer has requested I keep my comments above the belt, so I’ll stop now on this issue.
Re: Post-divorce “living standards”- I’ve seen studies that only look to the earnings of ex-husbands vs. ex-wives, and do not include the support payment from the man to the woman, to support such lies. So, if a woman files for divorce, keeps the house, gets massive support payments based on income imputed to the man, which allows her to quit her job or reduce her hours, while the man has to sleep on his buddy’s couch and take a second job to make the support payments (or go to jail), this somehow comes out that the poor, poor wimmenz standard of living degrades after divorce, while the men’s increases. Side Note: That screeching harpy Marc R. had to endure calls herself a “single mother”, but she’s not. She gleefully accepts large support payments from her ex-husband and hence is quasi-married (i.e., the financial benefit of a husband, with no obligation of any sort to a husband).
@Speechless- I really don’t know why you would think this news item portends the end of Game. Men get falsely charged with rape all the time- sometimes even when no sex occurs (e.g., Duke Lacrosse- go visit The False Rape Society’s page). If you think giving someone a false name or lying is the end-all of Game, you should really better educate yourself about what Game is and is not.
In this case, it appears the religion of the defendant, which is different that that of the woman, might have had something to do with this case being brought. Perhaps you missed that part (which would really suggest an near-complete lack of reading comprehension, since it’s indicated in the URL link)? This case reminded me of the black American men who were lynched for rape after a white women were caught having sex with them, and needed an excuse to save their “virtue” by falsely accusing the innocent men. I wonder if the woman knew all along about the man’s ethnicity and considered the accused forbidden fruit.
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PS- Glad to see Jabber’s back on his game. He seemed to be getting a bit warm and fuzzy the other day.
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Hermit and Hollenhund:
How is that hilarious? I think both sexes have it easy in different aspects of life. Women get doors opened for them and they don’t face aggression or danger in the same ways that men do (they face some aggression from sexual deviants but that is overblown and doesn’t occur as often as the everyday danger men face). OTOH, as a man, I’m taken much more seriously than women are. People pay attention to what I have to say, and they’ll curb their true feelings about something they’d like to take me to task for just because they observe “the man code” or they assume that because I’m a man I have a good reason for doing the things I do. Women don’t have that wiggle room. Any misstep on their part and they are labeled as stupid or bitchy. Every false move is put into their permanent file. I don’t cry for women over this because I understand that this is the way things are and they have to take their lumps if they want to enter a new realm. But at the same time, I realize that I have it easy compared to them.
I rarely have to prove anything to anyone as there is a tacit assumption planted deep within society that men are superior in social realms (and that women are superior privately). If a business dealing needs to be taken care of, I handle it because the person on the other end of the phone or at the counter is more apt to listen to me (I’m speaking as prototypical man here, this isn’t necessarily anecdotal).
Also, the biggie, I am rarely confronted with the sexual double standard of having to settle versus wanting to mingle. I can do whatever I want – fuck around or settle down – without anyone questioning my decision. Whichever decision I make is “the right one”.
I mean, save for cases where men are unjustly confronted by the law for domestic issues i.e. DV, divorce, or custody (and, really, these are seldom clearly unjust against the man), tell me exactly why it sucks to be a man? I wouldn’t trade it. Would you?
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Jabberwocky:
No, I’m not especially alpha (I don’t buy into the dichotomy as Roissy defines it anyway). I find it funny that you take me to task for your perception of me rubbing noses in my good fortune. First, it isn’t good fortune. Second, the timbre and tone of the second half of Paul Elam’s article was that getting women is a walk in the park. It’s easy. Any man worth his salt can do it. When Paul Elam says it that way nobody takes him to task for it although he is much more brazen than me.
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Paradoxotaur July 22, 2010 at 16:27
This is how blatant lies come. I was talking to the woman serving me coffee at starbucks a week or two ago. I told her that women like her better pull their fingout out and start helping us men. She claimed that he sister got divorced and ‘did not receive a penny, no money at all.’ I told her I flatly did not believe her and that I thought she was lying to me. During making my coffee she reiterated numerous times how hard done by her sister was in that she got nothing and I reiterated that I thought she was lying. In the end she said, and near as damn it quote: “Oh, she did get the house, but that’s not money, that’s just the house, so I didn’t lie, she didn’t get any money.” Now? How are you going to have a sensible conversation with a being that claims that being GIVEN A FUCKING HOUSE is not ‘being given money’. THAT is why I don’t bother talking to western women and THAT is why I don’t bother listening to these cow-shit surveys women come out with. ALL the surveys that make things ‘sound bad for women’? When you dig a little they are ALL complete crap. Yes. I have a math degree and I did stats. I know how to read a survey to find out if it is statistically significant. Obviously Chuck does not.
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Jabberwocky:
I don’t claim to be alpha (I don’t buy into the Roissy dichotomy anyway), but I find it funny that you take me to task for trumpeting my relative successes while it was Paul Elam’s bravado which got me going in the first place. Numerous times in his article he makes Game and pick-up seem like a cake walk. He even has the audacity to break it down into 4 simple rules. Wow, is all I can say. Whole books have been written on the subject, but Paul Elam, master seducer that he, is can wittle it down to 4 measley rules. He even litters his post with tacit shaming language implying that men who can’t get women in this day and age of female hypergamy aren’t worth their salt as men. Well tell that to many of the men here and many of the men who read Roissy. They wouldn’t read if their sex life was active.
But of course, you take me to task because I dissent from your party line. Paul Elam is your Charles Rangel or Barney Frank. Your platform shifts according to whatever he writes. His language isn’t considered shaming language because he isn’t capable of shaming language being that he is one of the leaders of your party. It’s all ridiculous really.
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Chuck July 22, 2010 at 13:24
“globalman is the one who got his ass taken to the cleaners”
Not correct. I am a man who had the common law crime of theft committed against him by a bunch of criminal scumbags called ‘the law society’. To characterise the crime of theft as ‘got his arse taken to the cleaners’ is a stupid characterisation. Would you call someone getting mugged in the street as ‘taken to the cleaners’? No. You wouldn’t. That those who mugged me legitimised it through the crimes of my wife wore suits and pretended to be ‘lawyers’? Makes no difference. Indeed, it’s best to be trusted by the people that you lie to. Did you know that pretty much ALL family law lawyers have a clause in their contract that they can terminate the contract if THEY perceive the client has ‘lost confidence’. You know why that clause is there? Well? If you are going to be a ‘confidence trickster’ you need a way out if the CON-fidence is lost.
As for your allegations some men are ‘turned of by the shit he spews’. GOOD!! Any male who reads what I write and walks away from it is not a MAN. Is not open minded. And also happens to be wrong. Let them walk away from the truth. Let them walk away from the facts. Nothing can help a male who is so closed minded so if the leave that means they won’t be spreading the lies and disinfo here. It is only possible to educate someone who is willing to be educated. You will notice, in the entire time I have been here, not one person has been able to offer one piece of evidence to refute anything I have said. Fuckwits like you make baseless claims, sure. And since they are baseless claims all the intelligent men ignore them. And it upsets fuckwits like you that men ignore you, or worse, call you the mangina idiot you are. Until you’ve done what I have done? Why would I take any notice of your baseless opinions? And no-other men are going to either. Many men like chopsmith have made claims that I was mistaken and I rebutted them with things like quotes from Blacks Law Dictionary. Specifically, the quote that common law has never been repealed in the land known as the united states. I’ve been here, what, 8 months now? And not ONE successful rebuttal? Not even for a mistake?
I have published the remedy to feminism for any man who wants it. What have you done?
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Chuck July 22, 2010 at 17:11
“But of course, you take me to task because I dissent from your party line.”
No. He takes you to task because you are a complete fucking idiot and it’s obvious to all intelligent men.
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And how would you know anything about intelligent men?
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When a “bad” man is the cause of divorce for whatever reason…he is destroyed by the family courts.
When a “bad” women is the cause of divorce for whatever reason, HE is still destroyed in family court or by obscene obligations to keep her in comfort. She cashes out for money and prizes. And people want to focus on the NAWALTs?
This is why the NAWALT canard is irrelevant. Good women and bad women are generally taken care of by other men or the State. Good or bad is irrelevant!!
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And which truth is that? Oh yeah, your *subjective* truth. You falsely assume that your reality is our reality. And since you’re off the deep end, not many can actually identify with what you have to say. So pardon me if I don’t kowtow to your personal definition of “man”.
And you haven’t been taken to task because, frankly, I don’t think as many people as you think read what you have to say. You came here trying to drum up pity for your court case, and you tried to keep everyone filled in on the mundane proceedings. That was enough for many to completely ignore anything you had to write from thereafter. So, what have I done? I’ve ignored you. And for that, I’m fortunate.
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@ GM
Ditto. CFI for sure.
It’s always hard to add anything to what JW says, but I am going to try. Young men are set up to walk into a minefield, indeed pushed toward it, and they are never even told that it is a minefield.
To blame GM for being naive is like blaming all the dead fish from the BP fiasco for swimming in the wrong water. Sorry, but only a self righteous puke would make such a statement. And I am most pleased to see the bastard getting what he deserves for saying it.
I know I am probably testing the limits of the new mod already. This stuff is highly personal. But I have to go with a sort of prime directive here. I can’t even claim to say what TS is. It is a lot of voices and opinions, and it is not my show to run. But I can’t imagine it is a haven for shit heads to tell men who have been screwed over by feminist governance that it was their own fault for not knowing better, or that if they were real men it would not happen that way.
I don’t agree with some things that GM says, including the fact I don’t think I am superior to women. Indeed, women are more powerful than I am, though not by nature.
What I do know is that men are more vulnerable to women by far than the other way around. You can be the least naive of men and still get it in the backside, and men like Chuck will yawn and say you deserve it.
Well, fuck Chuck, and the white horse he rode in on. If I ever need to trust a man with my back turned, I’ll take GM and JW over shite suckers like Chuck any day.
And that is all I have to say.
Not to throw more fuel to the flame, or redirecting any flame toward me. I think a handful of comments are turning into a pissing match of sort.
The saying goes, men can be a little too proud to admit in public. The other saying goes, others can’t handle the cold hard truth.
But then again its human nature. Sometimes you need to tell it as it is.
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Paul:
You are aligning yourself with a man who thinks the Illuminati are behind everything. Read his fucking profile. He is a narcissistic lunatic. He mentions how he has helped so many people and so many nations and how he is so powerful when that has nothing at all to do with anything other than his own masturbatory back-patting. Most of my “cheap shots” towards him are based on my perception that he is either a liar or that he deserved whatever he got because he sounds like a complete ass.
I’m also a little biased because I’ve learned throughout life that most people – men or women – who complain as much as GM and others here do are very quick to discount their role in the very thing they are complaining about.
The one thing I’ve said that I will back down from is my stance towards men who have actually been harmed unjustly by the court system. My jibe at men who have been harmed in that capacity was made in an irrational frame of mind. I don’t like Globalman therefore I made a hyperbolic statement in an attempt to demean him and I thereby demeaned other men. I’m sorry for that. Men are harmed by the system and by women. I just find very little use for Globalman and his tactics.
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@Chuck
Please stop writing such lengthy drivel.
I use my middle finger to scroll past shit, and your comments are causing tendon inflammation.
If I lose mobility in that finger, how will I be able to communicate properly with people like you, in person?
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Chuck: Ever heard the expression?
Sorry I wrote you a FIVE page letter, I didn’t have the time to write a ONE page letter?
Do you say anything in your posts outside of the obvious everyone else understands? NAWALT, men are bad too, blah, blah….again, in your series of rants, is it your expectation that everyone put a disclaimer on every post so fucking idiots like yourself can actually “get it”?
You’re an apologist for the bad behaviour of women. And you are a fucking mangina, you are truly the enemy. Men in my situation don’t need men like you to do us any favors, please fuck off and die. I have earned the right to SHAME men like you…I have earned it in the trenches you pontificating drunk child.
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Anonymous July 22, 2010 at 12:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ZtjGJ4LD4Uhh, this was horrible. It brought back memories i don’t want to remember.
thehermit July 22, 2010 at 12:09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ZtjGJ4LD4
Uhh, that was horrible. Brought back memories i don’t want to remember.
- Uhgg, I don’t want to have to again watch those two uselessly ganging up on him. For those who didn’t watch this clip – check it out. That is Marc Rudov speaking up for things that do not get mentioned very much on national media. To the point, perfect for the sound byte generation, and on the money many, many times over. This guy is that good.
Which brings me around to this point, and it’s directed to those who actually have some spare finances. If we see a worthy cause we could help make that cause a little more worthwhile for the person(s) doing it (for the rest of us).
I don’t have a blog so there’s no self-interest on my part for saying this: financial support of the men out there risking a part of themselves to advance the voice and cause for men would likely be appreciated by the ones doing it. The No Non-Sense Man, AVFM, the SH, etc., all have blog related expenses. Even sending a MO for 5$ would mean a lot for these guys.
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Remember this when hating other men.
The divorce system is the one enslaving people.
And alimony laws started in florida in the 1820′s.
So yea.
The only people to really hate are lawyers and judges and who make the laws that opress you.
Noone else effects your life like they do.
Game can only help protect men from getting involved with those laws.
Men are still gonna fuck
men are still gonna fall in love with woman
men are still gonna get married
men are still gonna get divorced like they have for hundreds of years
Men are still gonna be forced to pay worse than criminals for a natural thing
until the laws are changed,
everything else is bullshit.
we need freedom not oppression.
Something that men in the west cannot even fully comprehend because we have only been told we have freedom we have never had it.
We have never had freedom from government intrusion into our personal lives in the us.
Nor freedom from being punished just for being born men.
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The term man up and be a man, among others were hijacked and used as shaming language. There’s no shame in being a man, or man up.
Where is the shame of being born as a man? How am I ashamed being a man? Nothing.
To be a man is navigate your way around the mine field of life. As life itself is a battlefield. Where there are freaks, all manner of creeps and hoodlums that would bar our way.
Already the obstacles against the younger generation of males is immensely high. We get religion of transgenderism, NOW, gay rights fascist coalitions, feminist dogma, lefty nutjobs, the feminized christian right, all manner of douche bags, weird farts and so forth.
In my opinion, there’s no such thing as a game. There never was. We each have our parts to play.
On another note. I am a man not a masculinist.
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Chuck July 22, 2010 at 15:12
“And yet many other guys here continue to throw the term “mangina” around to any guy who doesn’t buy wholesale into their arguments.”
No. We call manginas manginas. That would include you Chucky. Paul Elam and I have our differences of opinion. But I’d never call him a mangina because he is not. It is actually very constructive to have differences of opinion.
Chuck July 22, 2010 at 17:29
“And which truth is that? Oh yeah, your *subjective* truth.”
You children are now taught in schools that ‘the truth is relative’ and ‘the truth is subjective’ and that ‘my truth is just as valid as your truth’. What you are NOT taught is that some things are true no matter what your opinion about it is. Example. Common law based of the magna carta is the founding law of all former british nations and is superior to legislation. This is not ‘my subjective truth’. It’s a fact. It is true whether I believe it or whether you believe it. That I am a sovereign man who is a self governing sentient being and NOT governed by any other man is also true and is not ‘subjective’ to anything. But nope. Your ‘education’ has left you in the world of ‘relativism’. This can be very useful and I know exactly how it works because I am a master at that. Reality can be generated for human beings through consensus. Populations of human beings can be programmed to believe something through consesus and peer pressure. It is called ‘propaganda’. I did pshychology 101 and did those experiments where people ‘agreed’ the short line was the longest line through peer pressure. You can look it up.
You are naive and stupid Chuck. You would be well advised to pay more respect to a man who has children older than you. But you young people are now taught that your opinion is just as valued and valid as anyone elses. Guess what? It’s not.
Chuck July 22, 2010 at 17:45
“You are aligning yourself with a man who thinks the Illuminati are behind everything.”
Chuck, you are a fuckwit. Paul is not ‘aligning’ himself with me at all and that’s obvious. By the way, the Illuminati ARE running a total, complete and pervasive control grid. This is also a FACT whether you know it or not. Facts do not cease to be facts because you deny them.
“He mentions how he has helped so many people and so many nations and how he is so powerful”
I have never said I was ‘so powerful’ so this is a lie and I label you a liar for saying so. My claimes are clear and they are in this place. Any man in ANY common law land who wishes to walk away from THEIR control grid can do so. Today. Any man who does not do this is willingly choosing to remain in the control grid as a slave. To not act is also a choice of free will. Men will not walk away from the control grid because they are mind controlled to believe they are free:
“No one is so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free:” Gothe.
The greatest trick of the Illuminati of late is to rebrand slavery and tyranny by the slogan ‘freedom and democracy’. People in the west are abject slaves. Men go to school at 5 and then work for 40-45 years, many at pretty hard labour. From 5-65 we are slaves. Only we are told we are free so many times we actually be-LIE-ve it. You are in a cage with bars you can not see and you falsely believe you are free. Well? If you are so free? Try travelling to another ‘country’ without begging for a passport first. You will soon find out how ‘free’ you are. You are a sheep in a sheep pen called a ‘country’. You are part of the human livestock management program and you are too dumb to know it. Men are farmed like sheep. It’s amazing how much they lover their servitude.
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Reader:
Here’s a suggestion. Pull your *other* middle finger out of your ass and use that one. Sound good?
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This idea that it’s only women who are the cause of all our problems will continue to hold us back. It is impossible to get any traction with this sort of naivete. It’s overwhelmingly men that make and enforce the laws to please their women-folk and to keep you out of their way.
It’s the culture, stupid.
Ok, so when they’re put on the spot, people like GM and JB will say “no, I’m not anti-woman, but…” It’s exactly the same as what feminists do “no, I’m not anti-male, but all these millenia of oppression for which women deserve retribution.” Same old same-old.
Know thine enemy, know thyself.
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Dear Chuck,
You wrote: “Here’s a suggestion. Pull your *other* middle finger out of your ass and use that one [to communicate with people like Chuck].”
I believe that you are entitled to practice the lifestyle of your choice, but this is not the appropriate venue at which to discuss your toilet fetish.
Your lack of dignity makes me think that you were projecting when you wrote about the “few marginal men that tend to show up in places like this.”
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o.k ! well, globalman is a tad strident. but i’ve been there, and understand the rage.
the thing to do is, rise above this petty madness. i’ve givin up women, they are toxic, but so are a lot of things.
the real enemy? the ruling class, the police. if there’s any war to be fought, it should be a class war.
the 2 percenters who laugh while we fight amongst ourselves.
it’s not the blacks, or the mexicans. they are powerless, marginalized.
i say, rise above primitive sexual desires, don’t allow yourself to be imprisoned by that.
say goodbye to women.
sonner or later, you will anyway, why not make it sooner?
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Even though people are entitled to whatever lifestyle they choose. Still, I find fetishes disturbing indeed. It’s something that I didn’t need reading about it.
Not to offend anyone, I’d prefer to things remain on topic.
Though the state of the affairs endures. It seems like there’s a tactic from the playbook from Sun Tzu. Not to mention discord had been sown. And online fist fights are reeving up.
I intend to take a step back, and avoid getting punched in the process.
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Our truth is based on experiences, what is not much, but still something. Your truth is based on your imagination only, what is nearly nothing. Anyway, i don’t blame you for that, young mens arrogance is coded in human nature.
You were grown up by women. I was someone like you, grown up in a lesbian household, since i was 4. There was no man around who i could learn respect from. I ‘ve felt anger about my father, perhaps still, but i can understand his decisions a little bit better now, as I’m growing old.
Long way to go, Chuck.
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The Atlantic Author of End Of Men has her say again….”But in some cases, this historic gender shift does look like a war, or at least a stand-off. The major change in the working class is that women are not getting married at all, judging men to be unsuitable partners.” So here is my take on it……….
I have no problem that women are hypergamous and therefore see males that produce less than them as inadequate mates.
See: Hypergamy
Example 1
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S3-zeTFNLSI/AAAAAAAAAXQ/BvqthT1B_M…
Example 2
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S3-1qJp5z-I/AAAAAAAAAXY/6GsoruFAUo…
What I do have a problem with is that women expect men to contribute to their welfare and that of their offspring. What is ubiquitous to all matriarchal social structures is the lack of male paternal investment in offspring i.e. females are on their own.
So it should be expected that as women are now a separate socio-political and socio-economic class you are now in direct competition with men and our adversary. I don’t mind competing against women for resources either. I just wish women didn’t do so unfairly with Affirmative Action, Title IX, devoting the Stimulus Package to themselves (See Article: No Country For Burly Men by Christina Hoff Sommers) and every other “women first” legislation.
I wish women were independent and self supporting. Even when women date they need men to provide to them because they don’t seem to feel the need to support themselves. This holds true for divorce.
I look forward to the day when women can support themselves. Like I said I rather enjoy being single. I was born at just the right time because when I was a little younger I banged all the cougars and M.I.L.Fs and now that I’m older I bang all the young women with no obligation to them or any prospective children that could be produced what so ever.
Much of Paul’s article makes sense though the conundrum is that in order to have any relationship with women you must step with tepid trepidation as you are indeed fraternizing with a class of individual that as unfortunate as it may be is now a separate socio-political and socio-economic class that we are now in competition with. Paul’s sentiments form the base ethos from which men make their trepidatious decisions when relating to women.
In comes Game and PUA which is a very reasonable way to navigate the treacherous waters we now find ourselves in politically, socially and economically.
It needs to be made clear to women that the family and marriage has been redefined and that women should support themselves and their own children.
Furthermore, to The Atlantic author, don’t be so myopic lady, males AT ALL LEVELS OF EDUCTION AND RESOURCE ACQUISITION are turning away from marriage to women as well.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/SphrkC7NshI/AAAAAAAAAQE/AXY7pW84h7s/s1600-h/ScreenShot024.jpg
The situation is dually compounding.
Furthermore, you should know that historically matriarchies do not survive very long and are quite stagnant. They have always been out produced in birth rates and population wise as well as technologically.
I expect that China and Muslim cultures will overrun western female matriarchal societies in no time at all. One need only view the demographic information on Muslim culture alone to recognize the trend very clearly.
The factors in play that have lead women to dominate the workforce are not by some sort of divine providence but in fact is a result of governmental policy, globalization and outright gender secular laws and legislation against men. This is how we arrived at an unsound service sector based economy where 72% of GDP is derived from consumer consumption. An economy that has been propped up by debt I might add. So I do understand that women see our new reality as a victory but the social, political and economic consequences are only just beginning.
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The Atlantic Author of End Of Men has her say again….”But in some cases, this historic gender shift does look like a war, or at least a stand-off. The major change in the working class is that women are not getting married at all, judging men to be unsuitable partners.” So here is my take on it……….
I have no problem that women are hypergamous and therefore see males that produce less than them as inadequate mates.
See: Hypergamy
Example 1
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S3-zeTFNLSI/AAAAAAAAAXQ/BvqthT1B_M…
Example 2
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S3-1qJp5z-I/AAAAAAAAAXY/6GsoruFAUo…
What I do have a problem with is that women expect men to contribute to their welfare and that of their offspring. What is ubiquitous to all matriarchal social structures is the lack of male paternal investment in offspring i.e. females are on their own.
So it should be expected that as women are now a separate socio-political and socio-economic class you are now in direct competition with men and our adversary. I don’t mind competing against women for resources either. I just wish women didn’t do so unfairly with Affirmative Action, Title IX, devoting the Stimulus Package to themselves (See Article: No Country For Burly Men by Christina Hoff Sommers) and every other “women first” legislation.
I wish women were independent and self supporting. Even when women date they need men to provide to them because they don’t seem to feel the need to support themselves. This holds true for divorce.
I look forward to the day when women can support themselves. Like I said I rather enjoy being single. I was born at just the right time because when I was a little younger I banged all the cougars and M.I.L.Fs and now that I’m older I bang all the young women with no obligation to them or any prospective children that could be produced what so ever.
Much of Paul’s article makes sense though the conundrum is that in order to have any relationship with women you must step with tepid trepidation as you are indeed fraternizing with a class of individual that as unfortunate as it may be is now a separate socio-political and socio-economic class that we are now in competition with. Paul’s sentiments form the base ethos from which men make their trepidatious decisions when relating to women.
In comes Game and PUA which is a very reasonable way to navigate the treacherous waters we now find ourselves in politically, socially and economically.
It needs to be made clear to women that the family and marriage has been redefined and that women should support themselves and their own children.
Furthermore, to The Atlantic author, don’t be so myopic lady, males AT ALL LEVELS OF EDUCTION AND RESOURCE ACQUISITION are turning away from marriage to women as well.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/SphrkC7NshI/AAAAAAAAAQE/AXY7pW84h7s/s1600-h/ScreenShot024.jpg
The situation is dually compounding.
Furthermore, you should know that historically matriarchies do not survive very long and are quite stagnant. They have always been out produced in birth rates and population wise as well as technologically.
I expect that China and Muslim cultures will overrun western female matriarchal societies in no time at all. One need only view the demographic information on Muslim culture alone to recognize the trend very clearly.
The factors in play that have lead women to dominate the workforce are not by some sort of divine providence but in fact is a result of governmental policy, globalization and outright gender secular laws and legislation against men. This is how we arrived at an unsound service sector based economy where 72% of GDP is derived from consumer consumption. An economy that has been propped up by debt I might add. So I do understand that women see our new reality as a victory but the social, political and economic consequences are only just beginning.
………………………………….
Hmmm reposting with new text down here. Says comment posted but don’t see it??
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“This idea that it’s only women who are the cause of all our problems will continue to hold us back.”
I said “primary” cause.
“It’s the culture, stupid”
Who is more influential on the cultural dynamics of family and relationships, men or women? Who influenced men to make the political choices they did?
I’m not saying men didn’t pull the trigger, but women gave them the gun and whispered into their ears what direction to shoot. If a mafia hitman kills my family, fuck the hit man, I’m going after his boss.
“Ok, so when they’re put on the spot, people like GM and JB will say “no, I’m not anti-woman, but…” It’s exactly the same as what feminists do “no, I’m not anti-male, but all these millenia of oppression for which women deserve retribution.” Same old same-old.”
Feminists deserve retribution. Find where I’ve said “women” deserve” retribution. And the retribution I’m looking for is shame and humiliation, not something physical or punitive.
And if I hated women, why would I be married to one who has been out of work for the entire three years we’ve been married due to Fybromyalgia and a whole host of other health issues. She doesn’t even make me sandwiches.
“Know thine enemy, know thyself.”
So define yourself by your enemies. Okay, I’m a Niceguy who was too stupid to realize that what I was offering women was not what they wanted. Now I know better, so I slam lesser minds and weaker wills into the dust to establish my Alpha status that I rightfully deserved anyways but was too nice to claim. It makes my wife’s gina tingle. You could say I do it for love.
(P.S. I like Chuck pretty good. He’s standing his ground.)
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@Chuck
“Yes, there are certain laws and fundamental policies that are misandristic, but at the same time society and culture are still pretty male friendly.”
I want you to look into the eyes of every baby boy, when he is being flayed alive in that practice we call circumcision. I want to look into the eyes of every 18 year old boy, when he has to sign up for the draft. I want you to look into the eyes of every abused husband or boyfriend, when he’s told that shelters won’t help him. I want you to look into their eyes and tell me what you see; because, I see fear, anguish, torment, and helplessness. Then after looking, I want you tell me that we live in a male-friendly society, after we have taken knives to them, gave them a number and told them they’ll be enslaved if war comes, and ignored them and left them to their abusers.
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GlobalMan has his points, even though he’s blunt and is not afraid to tell as it is. Obsidian on the other hand is just as controversial, teetering to race baiting. Just because he’s black, doesn’t give him the right to annoy others.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I noted that those who came to site, had been burned. More so than others. And have good reasons to be annoyed, frustrated and even a little angry.
In the Canadian north, the men here get mad, but we don’t complain. Other people get special treatments all the time, especially the illegal immigrants. Whether they be bastards or some kind of filthy douche bags, I don’t care.
In all honesty, men are on their on own.
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He’s all right with me, i’m a stabborn person also.
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“He’s all right with me, i’m a stabborn person also.
”
lol, ditto. I like him also.
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Men,
Ignore this Johanna chick. We don’t need women in our movement. What we need is cajones. Women are afraid of strong men, if we become militant (like certain other social movements) they will back down.
Cowards respect force. No amount of reason will persuade them.
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Just to leave my 2 cents, Joanna was the most intelligent contributor to this entire post and conversation. Shame the actual misogynists among you chased her off. Misandry is rampant in mainstream western culture today and it won’t be culled by reactionary misogyny against open ears…
Food for thought.
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@free man
Globie? Is that you?
And is it just me, or am I the only one who loves the picture attached to this article. I just enjoy looking at it everytime it pops up on my screen.
God, pussy is powerful.
“Just to leave my 2 cents, Joanna was the most intelligent contributor to this entire post and conversation.”
By what standard do you judge intelligence? When you agree with someone?
You need a new standard, unless of course your smarter than everyone you encounter. Why don’t you throw a third penny into the pond by actually debating and see how far the ripples reach. I’d like to get this thread to 400.
Maybe you’re the worthy opponent I’ve been searching for ever sense Lurker didn’t want to play with me anymore? (Inside joke for old dogs here)
Care to dance. I know the secrets of Disco-Fu. Slayin the hive, slayin the hive, slayin the hive….man, I’m in a weird mood. Must of been the adderall / tramadol mix I took this morning.
I’m just messing with you. We need dissenting voices to achieve equipoise. But don’t blame me that the philosophical weight of our arguments is a light bending gravitational singularity of truth. Come closer, debate us, the event horizon is nothing to be concerned about. You can aaalways turn back later.
Muahahahahahaha!!
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@free men
“Ignore this Johanna chick. We don’t need women in our movement. What we need is cajones. Women are afraid of strong men, if we become militant (like certain other social movements) they will back down.”
Back down from what? Do you really think every last one of them opposes us, or would oppose us if they knew of us? The whole men vs. women thing is a false dichotomy. Not only could we use the help, seeing as we are trying to take off, women have and are helping us. Our enemy is sexism, not women. Without people like Cristina Sommers, Wendy McElroy, and Cathy Young we’d have a much weaker and smaller movement, if we’d have a movement at all. They’ve stuck their necks out for us on many occasions. I would think that you would be grateful for that.
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Post #350-
Don’t quit on me, it only has one article between it and the dreaded page 2.
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Oh damn! 5 articles between this thread and page two. Oh well, free post! 49 to go!
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“@free man
Globie? Is that you?”
Hey Jab, I was thinking the same thing.
“Care to dance. I know the secrets of Disco-Fu. Slayin the hive, slayin the hive, slayin the hive….man, I’m in a weird mood. Must of been the adderall / tramadol mix I took this morning.
I’m just messing with you. We need dissenting voices to achieve equipoise. But don’t blame me that the philosophical weight of our arguments is a light bending gravitational singularity of truth. Come closer, debate us, the event horizon is nothing to be concerned about. You can aaalways turn back later.
Muahahahahahaha!!”
Jab, you are such a funny guy.
I always look forward to reading your stuff , you know.
Even though half the time I haven’t got a clue what you’re on about
Hey, I ‘m a blonde whaddya expect?
Pithy , (not pissy) intelligent, thought provoking commentary interspersed with your special brand of humor.
It gets me everytime.
Internet game… You have it in spades.
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Why thank you. My note writing skills in Middle School were quite good to. Everyone wanted to pass notes with me. Now kids have txting. I probably would have been good with that to, but it wouldn’t have allowed me to draw funny little pictures to go along with my anti-school, gossip whoring ramblings. My notes were pretty colorful, and I didn’t even need crayons. Remember how there was that very specific way to fold a passed note? Can anyone do that folding technique anymore? Know what I’m talking about? I was bummed it stopped being cool in High School. But then again, I wore MC Hammer pants a couple times in Middle School….I shouldn’t have said that…
Anyone want to relive Middle School note passing days with me?
Check this box for yes (_) for no (_) for maybe (_).
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This is why we need more posts. Normally we men have no damn idea what to say to women who spout feminist nonsense
Like one who told me that a woman marrying a man is basically a favour to the man as he is being “civilized”(not those exact words, but implied. do woman ever say their thought directly?)
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