Dear Jay,
It’s an easy equation – investing in women and their families equals investing in a healthy future for America.
And with the release of his budget this week, President Obama showed he’s committed to programs serving women and children.
Now it’s your turn to show your commitment — sign the pledge to fight for critical investments in women and families.
Times are tough, and women are forced to make impossible choices between putting food on the table and paying rent, between going to the doctor and keeping the lights on. Official estimates show that one in four children and nearly half of single-mother families are expected to be poor in 2011. We need to make sure that more is done to create jobs and provide help for those most in need.
The budget makes sensible investments that are critical to women and families and our nation’s economic future, including: education, child care, health care, tax credits for working families, enforcement of civil rights, retirement security, and more. It also continues the President’s commitment to passing comprehensive and affordable health care reform for women and their families. And, the budget supports these priorities with fair and responsible proposals to close corporate tax loopholes and require the very wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes.
We know times are tough, so together we’ll fight hard to make sure the needs of women and their families are met.
Sincerely,
Helen Blank
Director, Leadership and Public Policy
National Women’s Law CenterJoan Entmacher
Vice President for Family Economic Security
National Women’s Law CenterFatima Goss Graves
Vice President for Education and Employment
National Women’s Law CenterJudy Waxman
Vice President for Health and Reproductive Rights
National Women’s Law CenterP.S. Check out our latest analysis to learn more about how the President’s budget makes critical investments in women and their families.
Did someone forward this message to you?
Sign up to receive future NWLC e-mails.
Did you make it through all that? Â Are you convinced?
Calls to action like this one go out to card-carrying members of the National Women’s Law Center every week. Â You’ll also see the NWLC is fighting hard to pass The Paycheck Fairness Act, which perpetuates the gender pay gap myth, does not recognize discrimination against men in employment, and would provide for negotiation skills training programs for women only.
MoveOn.org and the CREDO Action Network provide very similar mailing lists which allow members to contact their representatives in the House and Senate quickly and easily on key issues, making a real impact on our legislators or at the very least raising their awareness of public opinion.
Imagine if legislators were bombarded with e-mails and letters from their constituents pointing out the injustices of VAWA, The Bradley Act, and The Paycheck Fairness Act.  They just might think twice before taking away more of our rights.
P.S. ”Expanding the Possibilities” is the slogan of the NWLC.
Subscribe to The Spearhead Newsletter for a free copy of the Book of Zed
{ 111 comments… read them below or add one }
When I see stuff like this, I laugh and laugh and laugh.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
As Fedrz has noted elsewhere and I agree completely, women have a finely honed rhetoric when it comes to this sort of thing. Men are sorely lagging behind, since we (as a group) don’t tend to value communication as highly nor do we take it as seriously. I plan on writing some posts (when I get the time) to offer remedies and raise awareness, but I think honing our rhetoric and fine-tuning our communication competencies should be a male priority.
Unless, of course, you are merely interested in individual survival/gain, in which case, pursue Game, expat, or marry a foreign wife. (Interestingly enough, however, all three of those options requiring honing different communications tool-sets, so, perhaps we should all be compelled into thinking about how to fix the system.)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“Official estimates show that one in four children and nearly half of single-mother families are expected to be poor in 2011.”
Perhaps these women should have gotten married to a nice young man.
And, given that most of the recent unemployment has been male, we should give some consideration to single men.
Or, rather than splitting people along lines, we could educate the children of the next generation. Let them see the example of what happens without families and economic freedom.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
As men, our performance in the so-called sex war (in reality, not a metaphoric war, but a metaphoric carnage of males) has been really pathetic. Women have kicked our ass again and again and again for the last thirty years.
If Team Vagina played in the Big Leagues, we would deserve a place in the Charlie Brown team.
I am happy I expatted.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ok, so let’s just rename the things that we want passed with warm and fuzzy names that the little ladies can wrap their heads around. Like the Flat Tax could be called the Working Families Fair Tax. Just take the name of the current politically incorrect idea and throw in phrases like working poor, parents, bright futures, etc…
Legislation would pass through Congress like cheap tequila through a tourist in downtown TJ.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It hasn’t just been the last thirty years. Search “John Bagot Glubb” on this website and you’ll see that women have defeated men in countless other civilizations and empires, so to speak.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I have no problem when they push for this sort of legislation so long as it reads as gender neutral. That way men can use it and the feminists will knee-jerk to have it removed. See also: Sweden’s quota system for colleges.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Actually, while the pay gap myth really irks me (there is no more thorough advertisement for economic illiteracy) and I threw many grenades at The Economist’s comment section there….
…I am beginning to think it is a great trap for misandrists.
The facts are : Women are paid 77% of what men are paid, for doing about 70% of the work that men do.
They leave off the second half of the sentence, of course.
Thus, they expect to get paid 100% of what men get paid, for doing just 70% of what men do.
This, of course, will never happen, no matter how many laws they pass. The harder they try to boost female wages, the businesses that cave to that will go under, and/or those jobs will be outsourced. Hence, for ‘feminists’ trying to close what they perceive as a ‘pay gap’, it will a self-prohibiting thing. Every action they take to close this fictitious gap will merely ruin agreeable businesses, or ensure that the jobs of those women are outsourced altogether.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Imagine if legislators were bombarded with e-mails and letters from their constituents pointing out the injustices of VAWA, The Bradley Act, and The Paycheck Fairness Act. They just might think twice before taking away more of our rights.
But since there is no Men’s Right Movement, this will not happen.
People like Harry say that there is a men’s rights movement, but somehow he is actually proud that there is no visible evidence of their efforts. When even interested parties cannot detect the evidence of any MRM opposing these laws, that is not a movement.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Let them see the example of what happens without families and economic freedom.
Hmmm. North Korea/Soviet Russia, anyone?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I noticed what you said in The Grievance Table thread, TFH, and Angry Harry’s response. There are a lot of blogs out there writing about men’s rights issues and they even garner some attention from the media on occasion but there’s no central men’s rights organization to lead efforts for taking action to make changes. Some fathers groups and the NCFM lobby and organize protests but they are not very visible. Men’s rights issues are becoming more well-known which I believe can only help. However, I see a lot of complaining about men’s rights issues without a corresponding amount of action being taken to change things.
I think there are two issues. 1) Supporters of men’s rights are not organized – no central organization, little social networking to spread the message, maybe a little cooperation between bloggers. 2) Supporters of men’s rights are not taking action – we are not putting out significant widespread calls to action and we won’t be able to UNTIL we organize and we network.
Quality venues for discussion like The Spearhead are popping up which will help us resolve these issues.
I’m guilty of inaction myself, too. I’ve got other crap to do and like a lot of men I have a job, but men’s rights will always be important to me and the injustices we face will always piss me off so I don’t think I’ll be able to just let it go.
The next thing I need to do is to take a little time and figure out how to provide web forms that will allow men’s rights supporters to voice their opinions more easily. I know several leaders of popular men’s sites are interested in utilizing such a tool.
Women’s problems are not my problems. Also, I couldn’t care less about children that are not mine. Single mothers made their bed, so let them lie on it.
Take the wealth from us men and give to these folks? Go fxxk yourselves!
Don’t partake in petty feminist delusions disguised as sound politics.
Another thing, the powers that be are thinking of closing tax loopholes. Soon the loopholes will be closed. I fear for you American men. Get the hell out, or at least transfer your money to less hostile territory.
My English teacher in school, a brilliant British gentleman, told me that although tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is perfectly legitimate. It was in 1994 and I was still in my early teens then. I still remember his words vividly till this day.
Obama and his administration of vagina worshippers will confiscate men’s wealth to sponsor single moms and their bunch of bastards, simply because men rightfully refuse to ‘step up to the plate’ and play the role of a good provider.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@mgtow
Your words tell me that mgtow works as a strategy to bring about a change.
Othes here talk a lot about how this change is going to be.
The main point is that men decide what they can accept or not and don’t let any government decide it for them.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Everyone ought to sign up for the male studies symposium on April 7, see MND article here: http://mensnewsdaily.com/2010/02/05/a-call-to-action-for-all-mens-and-fathers-rights-activists/
It’s telling that “conservatives” have thus far been silent on the perverse incentive of a tax break for child care–of course, that is how Lamar Alexander made his money, corporate day care, so the scam rolls on.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The next thing I need to do is to take a little time and figure out how to provide web forms that will allow men’s rights supporters to voice their opinions more easily. I know several leaders of popular men’s sites are interested in utilizing such a tool.
I’m a web/software developer. Would be happy to help. E-mail me if you’d like.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”It’s an easy equation – investing in women and their families equals investing in a healthy future for America.”
If there’s ever a statement of feminist intent it’s this. Men are simply out of the equation. Soon enough the word America wil be replaced by UK or any of the other westernized nations in the world.
I wonder how healthy our societies will become with the increased delinquency due to female single parenting.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”simply because men rightfully refuse to ’step up to the plate’ and play the role of a good provider.”
Often with having just the word of a female that the child is his. His equal status to her means he has to pay to find out if the child actually is. Or very often, not. When he finds out he’s been conned out of hard earned, what recourse does he have? Fraud is fraud, even if it brings up a child.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Single mothers made their bed, so let them lie on it.”
Exactly. They played the game and lost. Their wallet catchers failed to snare a host. So other men have to pay through their taxes. Great scam, shame equality doesn’t provide men with the same opportunity. No suprise there.
Equality, but we give birth. Feminist equality.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”And, given that most of the recent unemployment has been male, we should give some consideration to single men.”
I agree Bob, unfortunately men in general and single men especially are expected to step up to the plate, or at least bite the bullet. More of that equality men enjoy.
”Or, rather than splitting people along lines, we could educate the children of the next generation. Let them see the example of what happens without families and economic freedom.”
Unfortunately they already are being educated. In feminised equality.
Equality, but we give birth. Feminist equality.
Which equates to men do the work, females reap the benefits.
Maybe that is and has always been mens lot. Politicians, Generals, Corporations or women. Men live and die for them. I think it’s time men actually had some of this equality that’s spoken of so often. We should reap the rewards of our hard work, whatever our ‘class’.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It’s funny how these things are spoken of in many venues at once. I think there may be something in the works regarding some of these issues…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
This is a historical cycle as was explained in the classic book “Sex and Culture”: societies get wealthy, and the pressure comes to emancipate women to some degree or other so that they can share in the wealth/power. But when women have wealth/power in the male sphere, combined with the “natural” “power they have in the reproductive/family sphere, they basically end up disenfranchising men from having any unique role or power base at all, and as a result the society declines — because men have no role, and no incentive to be productive. This is a cycle which repeats in history, as all cycles do, unless they are deconstructed and stopped. What we know as “feminism” is a recurring event in relations between the sexes of our species when the pendulum swings too heavily in the direction of women, basically resulting in most power being amassed in the female sex, with men being irrelevant, leading to them being unproductive, which leads to decline, eventually.
I doubt we can stop the cycle intentionally at this stage — it is too far advanced for that. However, other factors may cause the cycle to end prematurely, as TFH has pointed out.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The book is here; Sex and Culture
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Strange;
The book ‘Sex and Culture’ is here;
http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2008/08/online-book-sex-and-culture-by-jd-unwin.html
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m curious to know if this has ever been accomplished, or if it’s pretty much fait accompli.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Reason for ‘strange’ above ; I tried to put in a link which seemed not to work
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It was published 80 years ago, no one has listened, the fall is inevitable.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”leading to them being unproductive, which leads to decline, eventually.”
Which again points to something that’s easily worked out by anyone possessing the slightest logic. Society would cease if men stopped working. Not so women, society (IMO) would begin to function again.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”It was published 80 years ago, no one has listened, the fall is inevitable”
The power of female nagging, especially on a social level. Men really need to finally learn (and put somewhere for future generations to see, preferably in stone), it doesn’t matter how much we give women. They will never be content and will never STFU.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
If we look at the way young men treat and talk to women, whether it be girlfriends, mothers or teachers, they seem to be looking at a very grim future.
The way to topple the present society seem to be for a few good men to do nothing!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I agree that letters like the one above show what sort of states of minds women have. The tone and content of the letter reveal them to be both oblivious and indifferent to men.
Can I just make a comment to those who point out that it is mainly men who are loosing their jobs in the current recession. In previous recessions it was only men who lost their jobs so in a sense perhaps for the first time women are getting at least some of the shit.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”In previous recessions it was only men who lost their jobs so in a sense perhaps for the first time women are getting at least some of the shit.”
In a way I agree with this statement. In as much as a lot of men aren’t getting the employment to lose it. The males that used to fill the manual and production work no longer have the jobs to go to (at least in the UK) we can thank the companies that have moved these industries to lower wage countries.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Fuck Helen Blank
Fuck Joan Entmacher
Fuck Fatima Goss Graves
Fuck Judy Waxman
Let those 50% of women who now hold so many jobs, and sit at the head of the table, pay for the ‘wimmin and children’. There is a MANcession, not a recession. Women are doing just fine. So let them help their own.
No man should put his hand in his pocket for ‘wimmin and children’. He should put his hand in his pocket to help his fellow men. Men are absolute crap at helping their fellow men. SHAME ON US ALL!!!
Jay Hammers February 6, 2010 at 02:26
“The next thing I need to do is to take a little time and figure out how to provide web forms that will allow men’s rights supporters to voice their opinions more easily.”
Jay,
what I suggest men do is actually educate themselves on how the entire system is constructed and then to step out of it. Once out of that system, like me, then help other men step out of it. I have provided everything a man needs to simply say ‘NO’ to being governed. If a man says ‘YES’ to being governed, guess what? He is saying yes to ALL this crap. And the reason this crap is NOT going to change is because the PTB WANT it this way.
It’s simple. You don’t like ‘feminism’? Say ‘NO’.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Unwin didn’t identify any, unfortunately.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It’s true, but here in North America where women are ~50% of the workforce, for the job losses to be split 80/20 is really striking.
Of course, women were also celebrating that because of the male job losses, women now make up more than 50% of the workforce, which is seen as an “opportunity” — an opportunity mainly to change job and workplace rules even more to favor women and their needs and wants and to screw men. This is what we can expect next from organized feminism — the workplace is on the verge of getting much, much, much less male friendly and more feminized by the the force of laws enforced by state violence.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Fifth
“People like Harry say that there is a men’s rights movement, but somehow he is actually proud that there is no visible evidence of their efforts.”
Pardon?
“… somehow he is actually proud that there is no visible evidence of their efforts.”
LIAR.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Men have a primal need to dominate; every man wants to be king. Every man also has an instinct towards chivalry (protecting the weak). That need to dominate means that chivalrous protection never extends towards weaker men, only towards women and children. Men will fight (often viciously) with each other to gain resources. They will fight to protect their women and children. They will rarely fight to only protect weaker men.
Women too want to gain resources but do not follow the dominance route. Women will fight (often viciously) with each other to gain access to an alpha male, and thus gain resources by proxy. However, absent a fight over a male they will band together to gain access to resources.
The chivalrous instinct means that it is hard for men to fight against woman for resources. When men do band together it is often based on chivalrous efforts to protect the community. Even fights for resources are often based on the needs of the community (in reality, women and children). If band of men is fighting for resources for themselves, they will soon devolve into dominance fights over who gets the most or who has control.
I do not see a mass pro-male movement developing in the manner of the women’s movement. Individual men will adapt as best they can, and the sum of all those actions may bring change (per TFH). Awareness, causing individual men to alter their behavior, may be the best solution. It may be the only solution.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
A big reason why men are losing their jobs at a rate four times greater than women during this recession is that women are a “Protected Class” under federal employment law.
The law penalizes companies that fail to hire or employ qualified women in proportion to their percentage of the total population. Since women are about 52% of the population, this places an upper limit of 48% on the percentage of men that can be employed by a firm, if all other factors are equal.
This is the real “glass ceiling”, and it impacts only men. There is no corresponding “floor” for men. Men are unprotected, so men can in theory go as low as 0% of the workforce and still not receive any protection, becasue they are not deemed worthy of the legal designation as a “Protected Class”.
As a simple exercise in mathematics, if one subpopulation can legally occupy 52% to 100% of an ecological niche, and another subpopulation is only allowed to occupy the remaining portion of that ecosystem, then the logical result is that the disfavored subpopulation will always be outnumbered by the favored population.
In reality, the US economy is not a closed ecosystem, so many jobs simply leave the US for good. This shrinks the “ecosystem” further, so the disfavored population gets smaller and smaller.
“Positive feedback” is the technical term for theis vicious cycle.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Default
“I do not see a mass pro-male movement developing in the manner of the women’s movement. ”
Not in the same manner, for sure – given the huge changes in our technology in the last 100 years.
“Individual men will adapt as best they can, and the sum of all those actions may bring change.”
Indeed, but millions of those individual men are gradually interconnecting their thoughts, consciously or otherwise, directly or indirectly, via the internet – uncontrolled, thus far, by the powers-that-be.
And when you look at those thoughts, and how they appear to have changed in recent years, you will see that the men’s movement is growing all the time.
Newbies won’t be able to perceive this because they will not know how things were before.
Here is part of an email I received from a black man awhile ago, who also bemoaned the lack of a men’s movement.
Watch closely what happens, …
… Harry … [Please] stop propagating the idea that non-white women are somehow more moral than white women – they’re not. In fact, they’re even worse from my perspective.
Fact of the matter is, it’s probably going to have to be Black men like me who “take up the cudjel” on this one.
They can’t dismiss us as racists, and they can’t deny that many of our sons are having problems, (it’s in the f*cking news everyday).
The best thing the MENS movement (if such a thing really exists) can do is get behind us, because more and more Black men are just getting tired of it.
If we were having this conversation only a couple of years ago, I’d be pessimisitic and p*ssed off with other Black men, this year I’d struggle to find one who’d disagree with anything I’ve just said.
And here is my reply, …
Hi M
Just two points.
1. Well, I did say that I was talking about **non-westernised** women.
2. Of course the Men’s Movement exists!
LOL!
It’s growing all the time.
The MM is a consciousness. And it is **definitely** growing.
And, clearly, you can also see this yourself!
Let me quote you.
“If we were having this conversation only a couple of years ago, I’d be pessimisitic and p*ssed off with other Black men, this year I’d struggle to find one who’d disagree with anything I’ve just said.”
So. There you go. Your Black male friends have changed their tune towards women over the past two years.
In other words, their awareness, their consciousness, is changing when it comes to gender issues.
In other words, the men’s movement is growing. These men are becoming more aware of how they are being suckered when it comes to gender issues.
………………..
Don’t confuse the men’s movement with MRAs. The latter are, basically, activists for various men’s concerns. The MM, however, is going to be something that is a zillion times bigger.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I do not see a mass pro-male movement developing in the manner of the women’s movement. Individual men will adapt as best they can, and the sum of all those actions may bring change (per TFH). Awareness, causing individual men to alter their behavior, may be the best solution. It may be the only solution.
___________________________________
the future is unwritten, dont be so pessimistic. there are a lot of people out there who dont think that subsidizing single motherhood is a good thing, for example. Like I said earlier, I think that change is inevitable regardless because of the debt of western countries and the low birth rate. I think that western governments will be forced to be less picky about whom they allow into country because of demograpics and outstanding tax bills. so who knows?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Harry: I liked your last comment. Any chance you can clarify the end part.
”Don’t confuse the men’s movement with MRAs. The latter are, basically, activists for various men’s concerns. The MM, however, is going to be something that is a zillion times bigger.”
Or at the very least tell me it’s not something Jackt would be an active part of. Hopefully you won’t even know who I mean. Honesty will be respected whatever the answer.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Default: I’ll add to Harrys comment. Recently I’ve started to notice some language changes in debate about social issues. Ones I believe are definately in favour of men, if only a little. Hopefully that trickle will eventually brake the dam.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Frankly I don’t give a damn. When I take my last breath it’s all over and whether humans survive on earth means nothing to me. If more men has this attitude females wouldn’t be able to push them around.Everyone who is alive will die and you will be forgot so make the most of your present life and make it as comfortable as possible. Be like the typical female and lead a completely animal type existence with ME at the centre of it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The men’s movement will be remembered and us with it. Besides, it pisses me off too much for me to let it go. Though we may argue about how much of an effect we’ll have, we are having some.
Harrytoo: “Recently I’ve started to notice some language changes in debate about social issues”
Can you give some examples?
Oh, we’re having an effect. It will be a lot more impressive in retrospect.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Can you give some examples?”
Nothing major ad the only thing that comes to mind was something I saw a couple weeks ago on daytime (day off). The discussion was about the fabled ‘glass ceiling’. I didn’t catch it all but the male in the discussion mentioned females getting jobs on merit rather than changing legislation. Also that it’s time that women came to terms with their ‘gift’ of child birth and accept that there is also a downside that comes with it. This was uk tv, think it was on ITV but rarely watch that crap so can’t be sure. I’m always listening out for things, only trouble is I don’t watch much of the crap like I said. I do try and catch debate programs though. Like I said it’s a trickle but this isn’t the language that has been used for decades. So some hope at least.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
We need a mainstream men’s group that ostensibly is about being manly but that espouses MRA themes quietly.
Men are becoming weak in the modern world so we need a group that reestablishes being a man. Woman will actually support this group (unconsciously) because it will be full of alphas and they will want guys from this group.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”The men’s movement will be remembered and us with it.”
It doesn’t even matter if we’re remembered. It just needs to change.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Alpha, Beta, Omega….
Jesus….
Are we about uniting men or dividing them???
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Woman will actually support this group (unconsciously) because it will be full of alphas and they will want guys from this group.”
Only for what they can get out of them. Young men will continue to fall for this unless they are made aware of the cost of ‘commiting to a relationship’.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Are we about uniting men or dividing them???”
Exactly.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Agree fully with the first part. Men’s loss of power is rooted in the belief that they are too weak to do anything about it.
Bullshit.
If men believed they could, they would take back power TODAY.
Their perception of what they can do is the ONLY thing preventing this.
And that has been brought about MOST DELIBERATELY.
As for the second part – irrelevant at best, detour at worst. If women support the MM, good for them. If they don’t, it doesn’t even matter. We must CERTAINLY NOT focus on appealing to women. Ultimately it is men’s view of what constitutes masculinity that matters. Women’s view, even the women who are supportive, is irrelevant in this regard, as it must be.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The Mens Rights Movement is happening right now and you are all a part of it. Check the forum on this site, it started at midnight today. I find you are all motivated men and of good intelligence. We can get the site up to multi millions of men yearning to know what they can do. We are ready.
Bring your input and experiences to the forum, get to know each other and help the poor men that are desperating looking for answers.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@HarryToo
“Harry: I liked your last comment. Any chance you can clarify the end part.”
Well, loosely speaking, I view MRAs as being activists with regard to men’s issues. Some are concerned with specific issues, and others with many issues.
For example, most of the authors on this site are MRAs, in my view, whether they identify themselves as such or not because they are [often] concerned to activate on behalf of getting a better deal for men in various areas. (Their articles are very often clearly pitching for a better deal even if they do not explicitly say so).
The Men’s Movement is more of a consciousness that is arising within millions of men about men’s issues. This growing consciousness is producing a force in the direction of arguing the case for men. For example, you can now see this force on every mainstream newspaper website in the Comments sections in various places.
And many of the men who now produce this force are probably not even aware that there such things as MRAs or that there are websites and forums concerned with the issues that they talk about.
Thus, in much the same way that women have been imbued with feminist notions and, as a result, they create (wittingly or otherwise) a massive force for feminism (which, of course, also serves their own interests) so, in the future, hopefully, men will be imbued with various notions that give rise to various forces that one can describe as forming various aspects of a ‘men’s movement’.
And the main aim of most MRAs is to help this movement grow.
And, in both cases, of course, the actual number of activists (feminists or MRAs) are relatively small in number compared to the number of people ‘out there’ who push forward the agenda – wittingly or otherwise.
And one reason why I think that we describe this growing men’s consciousness as a movement, rather than as an ideology (like ‘feminism’) is because I’m not sure that we men actually have an ideology (yet) that covers all our needs. LOL!
For the moment, therefore, it is simply much easier to view this growing awareness among men (an awareness that is producing a force) as a growing ‘movement’ – particularly when you look at its various components.
For example, I would view PUAs and Gamers as very definitely part of the MM, because they are definitely concerned to help men deal more effectively with the fairer sex.
One might or might not agree with their views, but this does not alter the fact that they are engaging MEN, and discussing all sorts of gender issues with them in order to empower them.
The same sort of thing goes for Fathers4Justice.
Some F4J activists see themselves as MRAs. Some don’t.
But they are all very definitely part of the MM – and engaged on men’s behalf.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Harry: Thanks. I see so many definitions of mens views (divisions) that it makes me wonder. I particularly dislike the aggressive ( with threats of violence) posts I see now and again. (I post quite often on MABTW). Maybe someone can post a list of definitions for them. For instance PUA eans?
Thanks again for the answer and I’ll continue expressing my opinion in the hope it helps drive the movement forward.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Actually we must never accept women supporting us.
They will immediately think they won – no matter what happens!
This is going to be a hard PSY OPS – men wil have to turn their backs on all women.
This doesn’t that no new children will be born – not all!
This doesn’t mean that men can’t fall in love – they will just have a harder time!
It simply means men must force women to face the brunt of reality.
Men can’t do that directly, so it’s PSY OPS boys – till they scream!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”For example, you can now see this force on every mainstream newspaper website in the Comments sections in various places.”
I occasionally notice what I called language changes in another post and am heartened by them. Whatever my tag, I simply think the abuse of the actual builders of our society, MEN, has to stop. Feminism being a very large part of that abuse.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m not sure I am entirely convinced of this. I’d like to hear more of what you have to say on the matter, Ragnar. As far as I am concerned currently, reconciling with women is a necessary (and inevitable) step for humankind to continue to propagate. If we completely turn our back on women, literally, we will stop reproducing as a species. Therefore I think it is not worthless for men to consider how they can control the negotiations and how they can avoid the missteps that our ancestors have made in organizing societies. Not all men are capable of making the correct negotiations, but certainly some men should consider it.
But again, I’m curious to see what you think on this matter.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”If we completely turn our back on women, literally, we will stop reproducing as a species”
The reduction of the human population is a bad thing, long term?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Harrytoo
yes it is. We will slow down when we run out of food. Plenty of land and food left. People starve due to intervention not lack of food. Population reduction okay start by shooting yourself
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Oh dear, one of those non violent feminists I’m guessing. Actually food isn’t the only thing humanity uses. a major difference from needs. I’ll forgo shooting myself.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Population growth serves two purposes that thrive off of each other. Commerce and females ability to make a living from childbirth. Continue blindly, even at the cost of our own environment.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m not here to debate ideal population sizes, as that isn’t something I’m knowledgeable about; however, total extinction seems like a “bad thing, long term,” yes.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”total extinction seems like a “bad thing, long term,†yes.”
Every male on the planet is going to stop reproduction? Don’t be so crass. That’s not what I implied. Making your own assumptions is your problem, not mine. As a way to drive the MM forward, refusing to enter into long term relationships with females is definately a viable option for many men. Especially as on a personal level, they will be financially far bett off. Marriage in todays western society means the male is at a disadvantage from the word go. Women realise this and exploit it shamelessly. If a population reduction comes from it, I see advantages from that too.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
” If we completely turn our back on women, literally, we will stop reproducing as a species”
It will never happen..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Harrytwo,
You were the one making assumptions about my argument (why else would I spell out “if we completely turn our back on women, literally, we will stop reproducing as a species.” My suggestion here is that, just as it is a viable option for men to swear off females entirely, it is ALSO a viable (albeit trickier, harder and more difficult path) to try to renegotiate the terms with women and establish better long-term relationships with them. This can be done, as nothing is impossible.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Also, establishing long term relationships with women should be understood as something done on the man’s terms, not the woman’s. The man makes the bargain and the woman agrees; the man does not force her to accept, her acceptance is her freely chosen decision. I will be posting about this sort of thing at a later date.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
” My suggestion here is that, just as it is a viable option for men to swear off females entirely,”
Easier said than done!
Realistically, not an option for most men under thirty.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m simple minded;
Co-operate with women in the battle against feminism; If you win, they win!
Co-operate with women in the battle against feminism; If you loose, they win!
In both cases you haven’t earned their respect, thus battle to no avail!
So I advice getting into a situation where you can demand your victory.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I advise the same, but I prefer to let each man define victory for himself. If victory means a long-term relationship with a woman – well, I believe there are ways to have that happen. At the very least, I don’t want to exclude men from any option that may be available to them. Furthermore, I firmly believe in being educated on all of the different options available to you before making a final decision – especially life-changing ones like we talk about and advocate in this community.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Additionally, I believe it is entirely possible to separate the battle against feminism (as an ideology) from other sex related conflicts. Women are not the enemy – feminism is the enemy, and we often forget that men can be feminists too. It is an idea which infects people – not just women.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
It might still look and feel like it from a female pow – but what do I know?
We got free/easy sex and regular prostitution.
We have a number of men not marrying.
We have the dumbing down of boys in school, no education for men.
We have a receding economy – others than MM is working hard on this!
We have men expatting.
We have men leaving Christianity.
We have men working day to day jobs – just getting by.
We have violent and ill behaving young women and girls.
We have government coming down harder and harder on men in divorce situations.
We have various zero tolerance rules, mostly hard on men and boys.
We have some men preferring male company over female (not sex).
There is probably a lot more . . .
. . . and I’m not sure, but it might end up feeling like men is shunning women – from a female pow!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
For the reocrd, I’ve read your above post too.
I simply do not agree.
When women support your victory, how can you exclude them from the further process of voting?
To me that is an absolutely must in order to create a functional society.
Of course a man can be married and fight against socialism and feminism – it’s hard sometimes, but I can handle it, so there must be others who can too.
Women, as such, are not the enemy that’s right, but we must stand firm on a future without them in politics.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Forgot something.
Keeping women out of politics is also a must in order to fight socialism. Marxism and all it’s ill variants will continue with female voting rights.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ragnar, have you seen this blog and posts like these? It is possible for women to understand the ills of universal suffrage.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”My suggestion here is that, just as it is a viable option for men to swear off females entirely, it is ALSO a viable (albeit trickier, harder and more difficult path) to try to renegotiate the terms with women and establish better long-term relationships with them. This can be done, as nothing is impossible.”
Possible? Have you ever heard a woman admit she’s wrong? You want their entire gender to do so. Heard of King Canute? I’d sooner try with the sea. Force them to listen is the only way. Negotiation with females plays into their hands. All their tactics will be used as per usual. Don’t ask what they are, if you need to, you don’t have enough experience of females to even comment.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
J Durdon:
â€total extinction seems like a “bad thing, long term,†yes.â€
Your words, no assumption was made on my part.
”The reduction of the human population is a bad thing, long term?”
My words. Any mention of ‘extinction’ being a goal or even a suggestion?
The assumption was yours. Man up a bit and stop arguing like a female by putting words in y mouth.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Harrytoo,
I like how you accuse me of arguing like a female, and yet you make blanket generalizations about all members of a category (namely: women) which is a logical fallacy. I suggest you quit being so combative if you’d like to gain anything from this discourse; otherwise, I will simply ignore you from here on out.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Also, establishing long term relationships with women should be understood as something done on the man’s terms, not the woman’s. ”
You also seem to be forgetting law courts in your ‘thoughts’. Women get privilege there. A mans terms are merely in his imagination today. Reality is quite different. I begin to wonder at your actual gender.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Oh, and ad hominems too! What fun.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’ll check the links you point to. Yes, I do know it’s possible for women to understand that – I’m married to one who does.
The problem is not some women, the problem is ALL of them. We need an iron curtain between men and women in some areas of society. That is not because of women only, but certainly also because of some men.
The design of this iron-curtain can be in many ways. We do not need to go ‘muslim’ on them, but we need a culture that accomplish the division of men and women.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”I will simply ignore you from here on out.”
Will you stamp your foot too sweety? Works for me, I’ve gained all I need to know from your oppinions. Make it better with reason. Females don’t see reason. Good luck in your approach. Don’t be supprised at it’s eventual failiure.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Oh, and ad hominems too! What fun.”
You feel attacked? Man up.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I agree with this statement entirely; but it is different in character from earlier statements, which seemed to advocate putting the iron curtain between men and women in all areas.
Harrytwo -
Good luck in your approach as well. I don’t suppose I could suggest you get educated before you run off at the mouth again? Fatalism has a funny way of always ending in defeat. I wonder why that is!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Don’t worry there will always be poon-tang!
There’s just no reason to let it roam freely, when we can have such fun controlling it. [I'm thinking of building rockets, computers and composing music]
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
‘Good luck in your approach as well. I don’t suppose I could suggest you get educated before you run off at the mouth again? Fatalism has a funny way of always ending in defeat. I wonder why that is!’
I’ll live. What was it you said about ad hominems again. Lol, if you are in fact male, I suggest you work amongst men more.
”Fatalism”
Again putting words in my mouth. Avoiding marriage is fatal to who exactly?
As for education. I make no secret of the fact my education is poor. Are you one of the ignorant that believes education also implies intelligence? Or intelligence only comes from education. That is usually a feminist argument.
I’ll repeat my suggestion again in simpler terms so it’s a little easier for you to understand. One of the only ways for men to protect themselves from women and the privilege our current laws afford them is to avoid marriage and children. I wonder how that will materialise in your interpretations.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Education =/= public school. Learning =/= public school/education. Educating yourself is paramount to survival; it is the process of arming yourself with useful knowledge. Public school/education is one of the worst possible ways to arm yourself with knowledge.
For someone who admits they are poorly educated, you are awfully arrogant and combative when it comes to knowledge and intellectual discussion. Not a very good combination.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You also completely misunderstand what fatalism is.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
” Average sex drive is a guess at best. Sex drive is totally individual. There are no set rules on how sexually active a person should be at any specific age. Testosterone levels (T-levels) are no different in a 17-year-old or a 50-year-old. But what we do know is that many men who reach the mid-30s mark do for some reason begin to lose their sex drive. ”
http://www.ehow.com/about_4710432_male-sex-drive.html
A healthy sex drive is natures’s insurance for the propagation of our species.
That is why men under thirty will have a difficult time shunning women.
This is fact not opinion.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”You also completely misunderstand what fatalism is.”
Not at all, pessimistic. Play on words. I stand on my opinion I’m in general not pessimistic.
”For someone who admits they are poorly educated, you are awfully arrogant and combative when it comes to knowledge and intellectual discussion. Not a very good combination.”
Education is a life experience. Education you alude to is merely preperation. There is no substitute for experience. There are many examples I’ve come across proving this theory.
Arrogance, I’d say we were both guilty of that. I’m at least able to see it and admit it. As to my being combative I’d also agree with that, especially when it’s instigated. Anyway. I’ve enjoyed our debate despite your not wanting to, or at least claiming not to want to. I have to get busy. Have a good one.
I will say again. I think your approach will receive little to no results. My experienece tells me women simply refuse to let go of their privilege. Or much more likely, even admit it exists.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”But what we do know is that many men who reach the mid-30s mark do for some reason begin to lose their sex drive. â€
*Wonders if the plastics and chemicals or society now ‘enjoys’ has anything to do with it*
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The great thing about the approach I am suggesting – I would hardly call it “my” approach so much as I would “another” approach – is that you don’t have to try it if you don’t like it. Like any other thing in life, if you don’t like it, you can (gasp) ignore it. Whether or not you personally believe in it will have little to do with whether or not it is viable in general.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
………………………………………….
^ That’s me letting you have the last word. Happy now? I used to do that with my ex too btw. She used to think she’d won the ‘debate’ too. No I’m not claiming victory either. I will echo your words though.
”Like any other thing in life, if you don’t like it, you can (gasp) ignore it.”
You are female, right? Way to many things in your posts pointing to it.
Gone……………………
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m about as female as you are perceptive.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
*Laughing* Doing it again. accuse someone of something, then do it yourself. Mosts of your posts have been the same. I’d say my perceptions are very, very good. They rarely let me down in life.
Ok, seriously, gone. Feel free to have the last word. Then go polish your nails.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Kathy February 7, 2010 at 07:32
“That is why men under thirty will have a difficult time shunning women.”
Gents,
there is no need to shun women. Just get the snip and don’t let a woman live in YOUR house. The snip, for me, was no worse than your average kick in the balls on a football field. A bit sore for a couple of days and after that it was fine.
It is true that a young mans sex drive works against him. That’s his problem to solve. Once he gets to my age? Not having a woman in the bed every night is a blessing. They are a pain in the arse if they are there every day. Much nicer to have one occasionally.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Yawn!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Forgot to update the thread before I posted.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Globalman
”Gents,
there is no need to shun women. Just get the snip and don’t let a woman live in YOUR house”
Exactly. That’s not fatalistic. It’s self preservation. For men.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Exactly. That’s not fatalistic. It’s self preservation. For men.”
If this was done in anything like large numbers. Women would be forced to listen. Appealing to their reason simply doesn’t work because they’re unreasonable. A generalisation of females that fits MOST of them.
Why would they listen? Because they’d loose one of the things they value the most, the ability to spend OUR money.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There will never be a men’s right’s movement. Not when we’re the disposable sex.
“Better what the eye sees than the roving of the appetite. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.” (Ecclesiastes 6:9)
“… to accept his lot and be happy in his work — this is a gift of God…” (Ecclesiastes 5:19-20)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Good post.
Harrytoo February 7, 2010 at 09:20
“If this was done in anything like large numbers. Women would be forced to listen.”
When I got snipped in October 07 the doc told me he had been running overtime and working 6 days for two years. Also at the time they were trying to introduce a law into Germany that said a man who wanted the snip needed to get ‘permission’ from ‘Family Planning’ (Rockefeller Eugenics society) which would mean a woman. My mates rolled around laughing at that. I know guys who are married who got the snip and didn’t tell the wife. The stories I hear are that men are getting the snip in large numbers and then refusing to tell anyone they had it done. The doc I went to offers no name, no record, cash only snips.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
”Also at the time they were trying to introduce a law into Germany that said a man who wanted the snip needed to get ‘permission’ from ‘Family Planning’’
This is outrageous, Women have the right to choose abortion or not but men wouldn’t be allowed to protect themselves from the ‘baby trap’. Equality really does leave something to be desired if you’re a man in most of our countries.
I wonder how long it will be befor the feminists propose apartheid, so they can feel safe from men.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Globalman: commiserations on Merkel btw. I remember when we had Thatcher. I intend to have a very stiff drink in celebration at news of her eventual death.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Katy,
My suggestion here is that, just as it is a viable option for men to swear off females entirely,â€
Easier said than done!
Realistically, not an option for most men under thirty.
That is what Game is for. We will teach young men game and get them through the vulnerable years. Nearly all men abused by family law were young guys out trying to love a woman and make a family. At one time they valued a woman approval. (based purely on sexual desire) As the men age it will transition to MGTOW.
J. Durden i wouldn’t worry about the population dieing out. Plenty of mangina’s and beta slugs out there to knock Katy up. At best maybe 30 to 40 percent of women will be forced into there 40′s never married and childless and living on their own nickel.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Do we really want a population spawned by manginas and beta slugs?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
” Plenty of mangina’s and beta slugs out there to knock Kathy up.”
Lol, thanks for the sentiment grey ghost, but I’ve already been knocked up several times by my hubby
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Have faith, some of histories greatest have come from humble beginnings. We are Americans greatness is not in our blood lines it is in our culture and attitude. The mangina’s boy will look to you as an example trust in that. some of us are already married and have kids. A young man just introduced himself to The Spearhead today and he is ready to talk to you.
I have another post I’m working on in the “MRM” series in the forum. It will be titled Rallying the Troops. There are many things stopping men from standing up. Our greatest obstical is also the the reason why what is happening to men is so evil. ( it is where siucides and murders come from) Men are builders of civilization. You all were here discussing ways to end oppression of men. And your concern was and still is maintaining a society that would take your children and enslave you. Only good men think like that and it is why there was no MRM until feb 7,2010.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
such b/s this propaganda is… In my mind, I can’t help repeating to myself it’s easy to get ahead when the game is rigged. It’s akin to riding with training wheels while men have a bike w/ no wheels or no bike at all. Progress and accomplishment is diluted for all. The real face of feminism has no shame of showing itself; I highlight the recently celebrated statistics of women loosing jobs at a lesser rate then men during this recession. Who says this kind of stuff, thinking it’s morally right? In a recession when uncertainty and suffering are common, all the “righteous†feminist have to say is that we are beating down men all the more? But it gets worse, because like everything feminist and social engineers touch it’s not genuine. Anyone working in the PC corporate world knows how easy it is to be hired as a women and how difficult it is to fire them. Certainly, the feminists conveniently forget to mention this and other “facts”. Another thing for us to consider is the blatantly sexist micro-loans in the emerging economies. Frankly this practice must stop. Most understand micro-loans etc, but did you know that many of these programs are women-only. Engineering a matriarchy?? Words are failing me.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0