I just had to go to the local Apple Computer store to replace some faulty hardware. Here in Seattle, it’s located in the University Village, which is a mall that abuts the University of Washington. The U. Village, as it’s known here, is an upper middle class place featuring all the trendy chain stores, such as Crate & Barrel, Starbucks, Apple store, etc. Personally, I liked it better when it was a lumber yard and bowling alley before they developed the place. But it was the response to new money that flowed into Seattle during the 1990s, so I suppose it’s here to stay, and perhaps the yuppies needed their own ghetto to counterbalance the Ave, which is the trashy strip crawling with gutterpunks and other assorted miscreants on the other side of the UW.
What I noticed at the U. Village is that middle class Americans are not all that attractive themselves. Last time I went to WalMart I thought it was bad there, but the frumpy, androgynous crowd at these upscale malls isn’t much to crow about.
What I want to ask is whether it’s just me, or has America really gotten a lot uglier over the years? I know we’re fatter – that’s obvious from looking at old high school yearbooks – but are we also just more run-down and decrepit?
{ 132 comments… read them below or add one }
I am renovating my 1950s bungalow and try to find vintage adds and photos from the 50s so I can return the house to its former glory.
I have found that the men always wore suits or tidy pants with a button down shirt and the women wore dresses all the time. The men were clean shaven with short hair and the women all had nice makeup and hair. Americans used to be so stylish.
I was inspired by the photos and I now wear dresses and skirts to work three or four times a week and I feel much prettier and more professional when I do.
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Not only has it gotten uglier, we now notice the ugliness.
Once it was glass half full, now it’s…you get the idea.
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That’s admirable of you. One of my biggest pet peeves is the tendency so many young women (and a lot of middle-aged ones, too, now that I think of it) have to be slobs these days. Another thing is that there really aren’t men’s or women’s clothes anymore — they’re all generic crap that kinda-sorta suits everybody.
FWIW, I think skirts and dresses are much nicer looking on women than pants.
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As someone who travels abroad a lot, I would definitely concur: there is something very wrong with the way American people look. They look extremely unhealthy; aside from the obvious obesity, their skin is not glowing, and they look exhausted.
I think there is something very wrong in the US diet (no surprise there!) that is causing terrible health problems.
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At least in Seattle the lack of skin glow and be attributed to the lack of sun.
Also living near UW, I generally find myself heading to the Ave about ten times as much as U-Village. The Red Mango there’s nice, but I prefer the generic yogurt from University Teriyaki–more fruit choices.
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I think people definitely dress more poorly than before.
Plus, too much processed food cannot be good for a person’s skin. The average American’s diet is so unspeakably bad that it is shocking. What North Korea and Zimbabwe are to economics, America is to food.
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I’m not so sure. My kids have rosy, glowing cheeks after I take them out for some exercise despite the gloomy weather. I suspect it’s the lifestyle and diet of most people here.
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Americans look pretty gross in comparison to Europeans. Sloppy and ill.
I look much better now that I eat my own cooking. I’m thinner, too. Although that might be the regular fresh air and exercise.
Dresses and skirts for me most days, too. I do like jeans for working in the garden, painting the walls, or chasing the kids around the playground. But if I get in the habit of wearing pants too often, my husband will complain.
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I can’t remember the last time my wife wore pants. When she does, she usually asks my permission.
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Patrick, try Citra.
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My problem is that I don’t have any appropriate heavy-duty skirts. I’m saving up to get a few jeans skirts, but everything I have now is very flimsy and feminine and not really fitting for playing in the sandbox. I wore a linen skirt to the park last week and the bottom lace ripped off. Miniskirts with tights are usually okay, but are a bit of a liability when going down the slide.
I’m saving up for a few jeans skirts or something. It’s easier in the summer. Then it’s the hard choice of sundress, sundress, or sundress.
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My wife only wears pants (jeans) when she works in the garden, and not always even then. She looked quite cute in jeans when she was younger (I have photos!), but she looks best in a dress these days. Not so good in skirts, although she can look nice in business attire (blouse, jacket and skirt).
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Dresses are usually the most flattering, but skirts have the advantage that you can change your top when it gets messy. Like when your kids have spit up on your shoulder.
I’ve thought about aprons but Hubby says they remind him too much of his mother. There’s feminine and then there’s matronly. LOL.
I guess I’m just a skirt wimp. Back in the day, they wore skirts everywhere and it didn’t kill them. Unless they got them caught in something mechanical, of course.
I get a lot of stares around here, though. It’s rare to see a woman in a skirt or dress, or wearing a bit of makeup. Mostly conservative religious women. But I have noticed that we look younger, healthier, and prettier. I wonder why that is?
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Speaking of healthy glowing skin, this how a 30-yr old French woman looks like:
http://images.askmen.com/galleries/model/melissa-theuriau/pictures/melissa-theuriau-picture-3.jpg
(picture not airbrushed)
Use your passports, gentlemen
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You only think America is getting ugly. If you lived here in Texas you would realize they all migrated here. HAHA!
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I love seeing my wife in an apron, especially over her business clothes. It looks so cute. But she doesn’t normally wear them.
All the women have their skirts and dresses on here, but it is summer in Australia.
For any guys, I am not a bully with my wife. She asks my permission for quite a few things, but I have never tried to insist on this. I think it is just something a woman does if she is happy in her place (which she is, sometimes!)
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The Spearhead: an online magazine for women’s fashion.
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I am interested in women’s fashion. I have even bought a few magazines and I know about a few of the great (male) fashion photographers.
I like to see women dressed up. Female fashion – yet another male invention.
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Maybe we can give Vogue a run for their money.
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Why not run an article: How men really like women to dress.
You’ll get some attention if you do that!
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Good idea, but I’d have to ask readers because I don’t know whether my tastes are typical.
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Maybe we could convince Maddox to pen that article, though I doubt it.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=fashion
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“What I want to ask is whether it’s just me, or has America really gotten a lot uglier over the years? I know we’re fatter – that’s obvious from looking at old high school yearbooks – but are we also just more run-down and decrepit? ”
Yes dude, you are. Try coming to Europe and checking out what people look like when they ride bikes, get some exercise and stay in shape.
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Hahahahahaha that depends on which Europeans you’re looking at. Americans are generally sloppier-looking than other countrypeople, but they’re still a better looking “race” (mostly because Americans are mixes). Mutts ftw!
Seriously, though.
As for boys liking girls in skirts, I hear ya. Skirts aren’t all that practical though, unless they really do reach the knees (sorry, not my style). I really like guys in suits, but suits aren’t all that practical either. We do what we can.
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“Hahahahahaha that depends on which Europeans you’re looking at. ”
The British are not europeans…even they will tell you that!!
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APPLE TABLET OMG!!!!!!!11111one1
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I wasn’t talking about the British. I lived in Europe for a year or so. Weirdly, it was the same as every other country I’ve been in — all over the world, people are generally of the same attractive-/unattractive-ness. Many European women are very masculine-looking. My Brazilian roommate was so insulted when someone told her she looked Italian.
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Good idea, but I’d have to ask readers because I don’t know whether my tastes are typical.
Neve rmind individual tastes…how about good old fashioned, standard FEMININITY?
Get rid of androgynous fashions, butch haircuts, sweatpants, and bluejeans (yes, a very small minority of women look great in blue jeans…but the overwhelming number of those that do not, make the sacrifice of not seeing the very few specimens of tight jeans on hot bods well worth it!)
Even ugly women are easier on the eyes if they are dressed in feminine attire.
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Many European women are very masculine-looking.
This is true.
American women have a head start in the gene pool (although Slavs are very diverse and generally good-looking), but they don’t take care of themselves. They’re too fat, they look run-down, and walk around in jogging suits and ill-fitting jeans. And those nasty flip-flops! Yuck!
Texas has a lot of good-looking women. Lived there for 5 years. Then I came up northeast for a vacation and was like, “Damn! Did these people get beaten with an ugly stick?”
No need to go to France. Here’s what a 42 year-old American woman can look like. Black don’t crack, Baby!
Yeah, Snark. But isn’t the lack of outward femininity a reflection on the internal qualities of the local female populous? They don’t wear dresses on purpose. Women who enjoy being women, enjoy looking feminine. Not necessarily a dress, but they’ll usually wear something classy and tailored, or soft and feminine, like a nice blouse.
Like this, this, this, or this.
Know what I mean? Whatever happened to pretty?
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Even ugly women are easier on the eyes if they are dressed in feminine attire.
This. Exactly.
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guys look very manly in suits and ties ala Mad Men
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There’s nothing wrong with a man putting on a suit once in a while, either.
I like doing that once in a while. I’ve got some pretty nice suits and accessories, and sometimes I like wearing them just simply for going out to a restaurant and then a typical night out on the town. Of course, a woman who joins me must dress accordingly.
She gets lots of compliments on her dresses and dress coats, and I get noticeably more respect wherever I go. Faster service… doors held open… waitresses taking off my overcoat and jacket for me and hanging them up… lots more “sirs and ma’ams.”
It’s a good thing to do if you are feeling in the dumps.
I notice I walk a little taller in my suit too.
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A magazine full of articles with ACTUAL advice for women???
Hmmm…..
Maybe a spoof “Fashion” mag…?
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I prefer slim-cut button-down shirts on guys, with slacks. Suits are also nice. Especially the Italian ones, or Hugo Boss. I don’t like most American suits, though. They seem so baggy and unflattering.
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I wear a suit for work (two piece). I have noticed slightly more deferential treatment from shopgirls and so on when I am dressed like that. I get a few “sirs” these days, but I suspect that is my getting older.
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oh, don’t get me wrong — i love dressing up. and i would wear heels everywhere if i didn’t also have to walk everywhere. i’m not a big fan of skirts/dresses without heels (i hate hate hate flats), and when i’m not wearing heels i try to wear shoes with actual support (e.g. sneakers — not stupid chuck taylors, but nike’s or sth) so that i don’t end up with some weird cripply feet by the time i’m forty.
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suits ftw!
if not suits, i’m also a sucker for boys in jeans and white t-shirts.
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I often think like this when I’m out and about the local malls and stores (I live in the suburbs). But when I go into the city, particularly Manhattan and certain parts of Queens, the beauty quotient goes up a few notches. And it’s really just in the fashion. Gotta look “fresh-to-death” as they say.
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I get quite a bit of flak when back in the US if I wear a skirt to go anywhere. It’s sad. I wear yoga pants and things like that for gardening, dog-walking (he’s pretty exuberant and I come home all paw prints and smudges) and housework, and tailored pants and pretty sweaters/tops or skirts the rest of the time. But, that’s taken as ‘trying to be better than everyone else’ in the Northeast….(rolls eyes)…there just comes a time though, you have to grow up and dress as an adult woman, younger styles (jeans etc) just don’t cut it anymore.
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I like knee-high boots. Have some great brown suede ones. They’re flat, but look good with a short skirt. And they keep me from freezing in winter.
I have an ankle-length, black wool coat that I wear sometimes. With a tailored waist and faux-fur around the wrists and the neck. People trip over themselves to help me when I wear that. Makes me feel like Anastasia. I carry my self very differently.
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i have never gotten any “flak” from wearing skirts/dresses.
also, i have always lived in big cities, where it’s rare to see women not “dressed up” (perhaps not wearing a skirt/dress, but maybe really cute/fashionable leggings/pants/boots/girly top). and i never, ever, ever see women without make-up.
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Tom They look extremely unhealthy; aside from the obvious obesity, their skin is not glowing, and they look exhausted.
I think there is something very wrong in the US diet (no surprise there!) that is causing terrible health problems.
Agreed Tom.
Tom, Melissa is a rarity. I saw cute girls in Paris but not many that can hold a candle to Melissa. What Parisian women have on American women is weight and taking care of the basics. They also seem to enjoy life, not much of the rush rush, worry worry worry like we Americans do.
French men and women have a natural elegance. It’s in the way they move their bodies, hand gestures etc..
French men(Parisian) almost always have flat stomachs. Having a big gut feminizes a man I don’t care how alpha he behaves. I can count on one hand the number of beer belies I saw there. I didn’t see the types of greasy fast food that we have here.
The French version of fast food is more of the Subway variety and their fruits and vegetables taste so much better. Oh, the French aren’t big on drinking soda either, mineral water . but their coke tastes better because they use real sugar
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like, never. where do you people live???
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for pic of elegance French people go here
http://www.nast-magazine.fr/
or http://www.garancedore.fr/en/
go back 6 months or so for garance dore.
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Nice looking clothes do make a difference. I guess a lot of women have never really dressed up much, judging by how my niece and her classmates dress, they don’t know how nice it feels to be well-dressed.
I have a coat like that too, for special occasions, it’s fun to wear . Since the beginning of the year it’s been fairly cold here, I’m wearing a nearly ankle-length down coat. I’m warm although I do run the risk of being mistaken for Daimajin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimajin
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…or is that just their age factor. idk how old your niece is, but chances are, if she’s <18 she probably thinks she's dressing like a champ.
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Hawaiian libertarian Get rid of androgynous fashions, butch haircuts
Funny enough, I like those things when done right. Kate Lamplier(elle mag) nails that look and here are a few others
http://www.style.com/fashionshows/sartorialist/2009/03/at-herms/
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David For any guys, I am not a bully with my wife
Yea, you know I was thinking maybe you’re a bully but I’m glad to know you’re not.
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I blame the 70′s.
As far as what women should wear, here is a nice fashion point by Vice magazine :
http://www.viceland.com/int/dd.php?id=84
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Evolution is not really functioning any longer in the United States. There’s no survival of the fittest, the fittest physically, or the prettiest.
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They have become lazy. Looking nice (or at least presentable) takes (a little bit of) effort.
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Chic Noir:
Yea, you know I was thinking maybe you’re a bully but I’m glad to know you’re not.
David: If a man has to yell or make demands, he has lost it. I learned that years ago.
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Washington State has very ugly women- and they’re Femarroids from Hell to boot- they always go hand in hand. Here in Texas we have mostly redneck white trash, but at least white trash girls look pretty good when they’re young – Northwest chicks never do. And of course Texas is the fattest state too.
Yes, before the 60′s men and women dressed nicely in formal clothing when they went out in public and then the white trash look of t-shirts and sandals and tennis shoes came into fashion and it’s been trash trash trash ever since.
Plus so many women today have the attitude that they don’t have to try to look good because of their psychotic narcissism – which is about 80% of the female population. Women today do not feel they have to make any effort at all appearance wise or any other way and that is why they are alone- GODDAMN American women are SO fucking stupid it is just unfathomable that someone can be that incredibly warped to the point of psychotic – and that’s 100 million + women!
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reality2010 Yes, before the 60’s men and women dressed nicely in formal clothing when they went out in public
agreed
Even during the Great Depression people dressed well.
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Yes. I think what I was driving at is from high school on, young women don’t seem to have an idea what classy clothes are. Prom dresses are in many cases extremely revealing, the rest of the time they’re in jeans and spandex layered T-shirts that leave little to the imagination, the whole concept of ‘dressing up’ in an adult feminine style (any kind of skirt, form-fitting, flattering clothes but not skin-tight) has been all but lost.
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i don’t think this is true. i think it’s more just a case of teenagers thinking they know everything. i was teenager not too long ago. as i said, i really have to ask where everyone lives b/c this is not really the case in almost every place i’ve been in.
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Yes, Americans are getting fatter and uglier.
Also, they bother less with looking good. I think it is a function of the “casualizing” of the culture.
I used to go out in public in a tee and shorts. Now that I’ve gotten older, I find that I need to be much more respectable-looking. So I put on a collared shirt.
Oh, and I definitely notice the difference going from the north to the Southland. The chicks in Dallas seem to take the best care of themselves. The chicks on Boulder, OTOH, can’t even be bothered to shave.
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A couple of things Welmer. As I suspected, the convenience of modern life leads to obesity. It is easier to be thin when you burn calories ALL THE TIME just by walking, cooking, doing chores, working, etc. than if you work out like crazy for an hour then sit at a computer/desk for about 10 hours or so. Even JUST STANDING burns calories. Convenience comes at a price. Obesity.
Second, MEN don’t know how to dress either. My pet peeve is guys wearing shorts. Shorts are for the beach, in the Summer doing chores, and no where else. Even worse — SANDALS. Dudes, I DON’T wanna have to see your ugly scrawny legs and icky feet. Put some adult male clothes on.
There is nothing wrong with jeans, a collared shirt, and adult shoes on a man of 45. It is childish and stupid to wear them to the Doctor’s office, the mall, the store, and various other places. Men no less than women dress like 15 year olds. Pathetic.
Finally, Apple stores. They used to be (2001-2007) male dominated places where geeks and nerds and the tragically hip all mingled. NOW? Its a total estrogen fest. I went there recently and helped out a guy buying a new Mac. About 75% of the salespeople were women, and about 85% of the customers were women. Macs are very “girly” now. Which is sad.
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A lot of our problems are due to a society built on adversialism, artificial scarcity, rugged individualism and other assorted bull. We are encouraged to exploit, abuse and demean others, and then profess surprise when we are at the receiving end.
I am afraid that men who want to be the top dog are just as guilty as women who facilitate such behavior.
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I doubt you’d agree with this if you lived in the DC area in the summertime, Whiskey.
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Women in America are INDEED fatter and uglier in ther 21st century. And I would include girls from Canada as well.
Fatness is such a common, everyday phenomenon that a new vocalulary has appeared to describe the various parts:
1. FUPA
2. Muffin top
3. Cankles
4. Junk in the trunk
My wife is from far far east, and she has been here for 3.5 years. And she is still horrified by what she sees in public. She just can’t get used to it.
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Unfortunately, I live in a city of beautiful people who dress like slobs, which makes it all too easy to slide into the “don’t have to try” mode. I’m constantly having to remind myself that just because the actress next door can look gorgeous in a ratty tee and capri pants doesn’t mean *I* can.
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Wearing a suit to a bar/club, mid 20s to early 30s. Out of place, or sharp?
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chris–
depends. i’d only wear a suit out at night if you were going somewhere right after work…or really nice. or right after work and really nice. by really nice i mean there is absolutely 0% chance that loud techno will be played.
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For peacocking, I’d say it’s fine.
Depends on the comfort level and confidence of the guy wearing it.
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Oh no.
Carrie Fisher, aged 53.
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or if it’s white. hahahahhahaahahaha
i’m kidding
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Fashion, style, self-expression, boots and suits, skirts and shirts, all great stuff. But there’s one thing that gets right up my nose. Cosmetics, layer upon layer, like it’s been spread with a butter-knife. I like to see the lines in a face and eyes, see the character… no nasty surprises.
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@Chris
Depends on the suit. I once knew a guy who had these incredible custom-made zoot suits that he’d wear to almost any social occasion. Bit too peacock-y for my tastes, but it seemed to work for him. At least, he seemed to be having fun.
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I doubt you’d agree with this if you lived in the DC area in the summertime, Whiskey.
Or Miami.
Or any beach town.
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The guys need to put in a little effort as well. They wear baggy shorts and dirty Ts with ten year old sneakers… TO WORK!!
Alpha and players, if that is what you truly aspire to, wear suits, or at least hole free jeans and shirts with out logos or food stains.
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I lived through 3 New Orleans summers. It can be done. I did it. I wasn’t laboring in the hot sun, I’ll admit. I wore jeans, decent shoes, and a collared shirt like an adult. Admittedly, the shirt was light-weight cotton. sometimes a Guyaberra. I didn’t linger out in the Sun. But it was not too bad. As long as you walk slowly, you can even maneuver around without getting soaked.
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Let me add, in times past people mostly walked around. That burned calories. They drank Coffee or water. Not sugary sodas. They had few modern conveniences so daily life was a struggle to burn calories.
Look at some old-time (1920-1940) cookbooks. You’ll see references to iceboxes (with blocks of ice, not a refrigerator), lots of heavy, calorie-laden food, but pictures show little obesity. Because people would just burn so many calories, staying warm in winter, working all the time. Even in a city you’d walk five-six miles daily just moving around in your normal life.
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I wonder how linen works out in the heat. I’ve thought about buying some linen shirts.
In Beijing I would get soaked in the summer even in the lightest of clothes just standing still. But being from the cool NW, I just wasn’t acclimatized to that weather.
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Another formerly manly franchise tainted by Hollywood’s effeminate touch:
Jessica Beil will play Lt. Sosa in new A-Team movie.
Not even the last masculine show on Earth is safe from pc bullshit.
They were called the A-team for a reason, it’s because they kept the vaginas out of mind and out of sight.
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Easy Solution:
If you don’t want to penetrate fat, ugly aging women, just buy a book bag, strap it on, walk into a college campus and fuck some nubile young 18 year old girls who have fresh, tight and sexy bodies.
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lazlong January 27, 2010 at 16:52
You only think America is getting ugly. If you lived here in Texas you would realize they all migrated here. HAHA!
I think Tennessee, nastyville in particular, is giving Texas a run for their money.
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IHMO, when it comes to fashion, it’s not only what a person wears but how they wear it. There’s alot of things that should be considered when choosing clothes. An example; wearing a fine designer suit to go camping out in the woods.
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Most all of the fat people I meet have a parasitic attitude- which is no surprise- they are all about producing nothing and consuming- but all American women have this parasitic attitude – nothing but diseased whores drifting like dandruff flakes through life whose only contribution to the world is excrement.
To be thin, productive, happy and fulfilled it’s important to disconnect from this culture – with it’s constant emphasis on ‘fine dining’ – eating is not entertainment- but the way women are so soulless and mentally dead today – lacking in any interest outside of themselves it seems to be the only activity they are capable of or any interest in is ‘fine dining’ – they are quite literally human vacuums… parasites and bottom feeders.
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I thank whomever started this online magazine/blog. It IS refreshing and educational.
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In Beijing I would get soaked in the summer even in the lightest of clothes just standing still. But being from the cool NW, I just wasn’t acclimatized to that weather.
welmer,
those people what are used to the hot climate, (and in good physical shape) will sweat more, and sooner.
also, if you will be working outside all day in the hot Sun, you are best advised to wear long sleeves, this is why all the dessert people wear long flowing clothes.
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it seems to be the only activity they are capable of or any interest in is ‘fine dining’ – they are quite literally human vacuums… parasites and bottom feeders.
hmm,
in america ‘fine dining’ are probably the only restaurantes having portions that are very small, it seems you should be targetting the large chain family restaurantes.
‘fine dining’ is for the upper class, very few women in the upper class are fat.
in fact, we can probably be defining the upper class as the amount of money where more % of men than women start being fat!
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One friend of mine spent one year on USA because of work issues, and he came back looking terribly fat and poor skinned.
An american family come to my house to visit me every now and then, and they relax and say all the food has real flavour and tastes really good. (they enjoy everything, but particularly the food and the clothes).
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Yeah, I always get a chuckle out of it when the Europeans say “look at you fat Americans, what is wrong with you?” and then they spend a year over here and get big and fat themselves. It probably hits them even harder than the natives, because they don’t have an acquired tolerance to supersize portions spiked with salt, sugar and lard.
Hell, even the Ethiopians get fat over here.
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Back in the 80s and early 90s I saw pretty women everytime I left the house. Today I see far fewer women who look attractive to me. I see women who are either overweight/obese, frumpy, wearing sweats and sneakers, rough around the edges, and/or covered in tattoos. Even the prettier women are more plain than they used to be. Their all have the same flat straight hair style. Everything is just too casual. I have no doubt men dress like slobs too, I just don’t pay as much attention to them.
I saw some candid pictures of women in Romania. I thought they were so much more attractive than todays American women. They put more effort into their appearence. They dress much more feminine. They look sexy yet classy at the same time. Very stylish. I know it’s like that in Russia as well, probably most of Eastern Europe.I just hope American culture doesn’t take over where all the women of the world become frumpy. That would be so sad.
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in america ‘fine dining’ are probably the only restaurantes having portions that are very small, it seems you should be targetting the large chain family restaurantes.
‘fine dining’ is for the upper class, very few women in the upper class are fat.
Ha- you watch too much television and have no idea what you’re even talking about. I am ‘upper middle class/ upper class’ and live in an ‘upper’ class community. Just about the only women here that are not fat are the teenage girls.
Ignorant is simply not knowing what you’re talking about – and there’s nothing really wrong with it- you just simply ask, learn and then you’re no longer ignorant.
Stupid is when you are ignorant and then pretend to know what you are talking about. Typical American female- stupid every step of the way through life- it must be a living Hell.
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Junk in the trunk has positive connotations. It’s not about being fat. Same with thick. It’s about having a curvaceous figure without being fat. Like Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez.
Cosmetics, layer upon layer, like it’s been spread with a butter-knife.
Second this. And some women have so much eye makeup on it looks like they’ve been punched.
Even during the Great Depression people dressed well.
That’s because dressing well has surprisingly little to do with wealth. It’s about taking care of your appearance. I know people who spend $200 on a jogging suit and clunky sneakers.
I wonder how linen works out in the heat. I’ve thought about buying some linen shirts.
My husband wears a lot of linen shirts in the summer. He likes them, says they keep him cooler than cotton. But I think it’s partially a Bavarian-thing. I have 3 linen dresses, for example.
with it’s constant emphasis on ‘fine dining’ – eating is not entertainment
It is communion, though. We need less fine dining and more homecooking. We’d all be half as big.
Whiskey’s right about the walking. My aunt’s family ran a laundry service and she and her mother would walk about 10 miles every morning picking up the clothes with a pushcart and 10 miles every evening delivering. Can you imagine walking 20 miles a day with a push cart? They must have been so freaking buff.
My grandpa was a sharecropper and he was strapped, even at 72 (when he died).
My husband and I both struggled to maintain our weight when we first moved here. We had to totally give up eating out. The restaurants serve heart-attack food. And no more hanging out at the mall, eating buttery pretzels!
But American fatty culture is taking the world by storm. Every time I go to Germany, I see more and more really obese people and fat teenagers. It’s very sad.
I think the way people dress affects their behavior, which might be one reason for the coarsening of behavior I see around me.
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I have to say that unlike most of you I am totally down with the casual trend. I like casual clothing — it’s much more comfortable than stiffer, more formal clothing. And I very much prefer comfort to discomfort.
I went to college in California in the 1980s and most people — men and women alike — wore shorts, T-shirts and flip-flops to class when it was warm. It really didn’t make *anyone* any less attractive, and certainly didn’t make us any less attracted to the women because they were dressed like that.
I just don’t see what the big deal is about this. When the business world went “corporate casual” in the 1990s I was one of the ones leading the charge, and I’ve never looked back. One of the things I really hate about my business trips to Europe is that men there still wear ties for business most of the time, which is a total pain in the ass.
I don’t exercise double standards in this area, either. I understand that for many/most women, high heels are a pain in the ass, too. So don’t wear them. An attractive woman is an attractive woman, even in flip flops. Or are all those attractive women at the beach unattractive because they aren’t wearing heels?
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Ah, Nova.. Ever the voice of reason
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It would be better if they were wearing heels.
Then they could act all helpless at not being able to cross the stretch of sand.
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I’ve noticed women wearing G-strings a lot which I can’t help but find a turn-off.
Women can be in a cafe, they’re leaning forward over a table and their jeans drop slightly to reveal a g-string (can’t see the whole booty but you can see the tapering fabric). Some women hang their jeans lower anyway (also revealing tatoos on purpose).
Gimme good old-fashioned knickers.
Interesting though how women are focusing on projecting what’s going on ‘underneath’ rather than what’s on on the outside.
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I just don’t see what the big deal is about this. When the business world went “corporate casual” in the 1990s I was one of the ones leading the charge, and I’ve never looked back. One of the things I really hate about my business trips to Europe is that men there still wear ties for business most of the time, which is a total pain in the ass. — Nova
I am exactly opposite. When I started having to wear a suit, I worked with an older gentleman with a certain measure of class.
He used to give me a whack if I showed up with a Half-Windsor. “Double Windsor, Double Windsor! It’s the first thing another man’s eyes fall upon.”
When I wear a tie, it is a perfect double Windsor knot, with the perfect little divot , and it lands perfectly at my belt buckle. I’ve got a selection of nice gold and silver tie clips and pins. If I have to redo my knot three or four times, I will do it, although, I mostly get it right away.
I love the clop of dress shoes when I walk, and I take pride in always keeping them tip-top shiny. I like cool weather, because it means I get to wear my overcoat. I insist on buttoning my jacket properly when I stand or walk around, and unbuttoning when I sit. Although, I hate white dress shirts, and so I have quite a selection of colored ones appropriately matched with tasteful ties.
I don’t spend much money on casual clothes, nor care much about my casual clothes, but when it comes to dress clothes, I am quite the fusspot. I will spring for more expensive dress clothes. I’ve got a pair of $500+ shoes that I itch for an excuse to wear.
I’ve worked at places where the “casual” thing came in, and co-workers would come up to me, “You don’t have to dress like that you know!”…. And I would reply, “I know, and yet, here I am. Looking more professional than you.” I take pride in outdressing the boss.
I miss my suits, and it’s why I often enjoy putting them on just for an evening up town when casual would do just as well. I feel completely comfortable in a good suit.
And still, when I go out to do business today, and I talk to a man in a suit, the first place my eyes land is on his knot – and I do judge him on it.
When our Prime Minister tried to “go casual,” and was often seen without a tie, I was deeply irritated. “Wear a tie, you putz!” I would yell at the TV, “You’re the Prime Minister! You should have a suit for pajamas!”
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””””David January 27, 2010 at 17:06
Why not run an article: How men really like women to dress.
You’ll get some attention if you do that!
””””’
I pick the wifes dresses by the amount of pulsating blood to the vein in my kneck when she puts it on. Dresses are the best choice I think and can be cheaper than the pants shirt belt even.
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I would imagine definetly cheaper than a pants suite or whatever.
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I grew up in SoCal, so I have one foot firmly in Nova’s camp, but I also agree with fedrz…I dress a notch “up” at work. This is a dockers/polo/doc martins (yeah) office, and I find dressing better both helps my professional attitude and keeps people I don’t know guessing about my status.
What I have noticed in the teen/20s crowd is that the women tend to dress a level above the guys. Most couples look like the guy just rolled out of bed twenty seconds ago, but the girl has on something cute & feminine. However, women do have an easier time in the summer looking nice…a cute dress or skirt, and some pretty (not dumpy Old Navy flip flops) sandals and she’s set.
When I lived in Houston, I began wearing plain white Coolmax tees under my dress shirts. This works great too.
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Americans have a highly skewed perception of Europeans due to only being exposed to city dwellers. If you get out to the country side in Italy, France, or Russia (all of which I’ve personally road tripped through), the people get downright husky. To be fair, they’re more “solid,” rather than blubbery like most Americans, but with each mile beyond the city limits, the people get less attractive. This is no different than in America. Visiting New York City or even Philly, I’d say a high percentage of people were slim and well-dressed. Here in South Dakota? Not so much. Which is the same phenomenon I encountered driving through the Belorussian provinces. If you want to see the “real” Europe, don’t just go from city to city per your vacation package’s plan.
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I pick the wifes dresses by the amount of pulsating blood to the vein in my kneck when she puts it on.
My husband picks out my clothes, too. He likes feminine and modest things best, which is why that’s all I have now. Even the stuff that seems racy to me is tame in comparison to the other women around me, especially if we go out on the town in DC or Baltimore. Some of those women are tottering around in stilettos and wrapped in strategically glued-on handkerchiefs. They don’t look pretty, though. Just really sleazy; like prostitutes. At first I thought they were prostitutes, until I realized that if there were that many prostitutes, none of them would make any money.
Even if I go shopping by myself, I make sure to keep the receipts because he makes me take half of it back. “Pretty, mannish, hideous, this one’s good, nope, no way…”
Clothes that fit properly and are well-made are generally comfortable. All of my clothes are very comfy, I can walk well in my shoes, etc. That’s not the issue. In fact, once you get used to wearing dresses, you start to notice how uncomfortable and constricting pants are. A well-cut dress is the ultimate in comfort.
Besides, tight jeans and thongs are generally unhealthy for women to wear.
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If anyone’s interested in some 1950s style Russian glamour, with the requisite hot Slavic girls, gorgeous feminine clothes, and hilarious lyrics – “An American wife is useless to him,” check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBvMvK2N_M&feature=related
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HL,
Hold the phone! I have you know that I like my sweatpants and jeans, thank you very much
Sweats are comfortable and I simply like wearing jeans. The only times I wear dresses and skirts are during church, special occasions, clubs/parties (and no my dresses and skirts aren’t slutty), and job interviews. I (and other women at my church’s congregation) even wear jeans during church service sometimes. I believe you can be feminine while wearing jeans, it just depends on the ensemble and how the outfit is put together. Think semi-casual.
I mainly wear sweats when I went to class (during college), around the house, and going grocery shopping. Actually, I think I only own one pair of sweatpants.
But yeah, with my body type, low-rise jeans can be a pain.
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I’m not old enough to remember what America used to be like, but the pictures of the past were sure more attractive. I have a dorkish love for reading the wedding anniversary announcements in the newspaper and am always amazed at how beautiful the young brides were back in the 40s and 50s. By beautiful I don’t necessarily mean super model hot, but young, happy, and attractive. Let your eyes drift to the wedding announcement section and things are markedly different, especially as the brides as so much older now.
If you really want scary, Welmer, come take a trip to the commissary. My husband once told me, before we were married, that if I ever need a self-esteem boost, walking through the PX or commissary should be sufficient.
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>>”I think what I was driving at is from high school on, young women don’t seem to have an idea what classy clothes are. Prom dresses are in many cases extremely revealing, the rest of the time they’re in jeans and spandex layered T-shirts that leave little to the imagination, the whole concept of ‘dressing up’ in an adult feminine style (any kind of skirt, form-fitting, flattering clothes but not skin-tight) has been all but lost.”
Have to agree. And this is in a Southern college town with *lots* of beautiful women.
Worth noting: Back in the 80′s a lot of women here — from sorority girls to punk girls — all dressed sharp regardless of style.
Now there’s this weird melding where the sorority girls wear dingy tracksuits and the ‘punk’ chicks are crusty do-nothings.
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We got a Costco in Amagasaki (outside Osaka) about five years ago. The Japanese who shop at Costco are getting fatter! I had been to Tamasakai Costco (Machida, Tokyo)about 7 years ago with our son when he moved to Kanagawa for university. We set up his room and stocked his fridge. There is a Navy base and an Air Force base near that Costco, and there were a lot of servicemen,some with fairly hefty wives shopping there, and it was a huge shock to me that the Japanese wives were obese as well. I chalked it up to the fact that they were married to Americans and probably ate a more meat/cheese/dairy based diet as opposed to the fish/tofu diet they grew up with. It was the first time I’d ever seen an obese Japanese woman. Ever.
I hadn’t expected the same thing to happen here in Kansai, as I assumed that at least part of the cause was cultural. Nope. In the five years we’ve had Costco, I’ve seen the proportion of obese to morbidly obese Japanese shopping there increase yearly. They are present in Costco in a much higher percentage than you see in the general population. It’s rare I see someone really fat walking around downtown Kobe, but I’d say 20% of the shoppers in Costco are obese. Must be those damned muffins!
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@crella
Now don’t go dissin’ muffins. Except for sammiches, they may be #1 on the goody list. I think Fedrz will back me up on this…
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Ha,ha! Costco muffins are ‘supersized’, the chocolate-chocolate chip ones are 840 calories, with about 40 grams of fat. Homemade muffins I have no problems with
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High fructose corn syrup, people. It is evil and must be destroyed.
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Now don’t go dissin’ muffins. Except for sammiches, they may be #1 on the goody list. I think Fedrz will back me up on this… — SteveinTX
Almost harder to keep your eyes off of than cleavage, isn’t it?
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mmmmm… muffin cleavage….
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There is NOTHING with casual attire. And like Noveseeker said, it doesn’t make the woman less attractive.
Personally, I give less than a damn if she’s at Wal-Mart wearing pajama pants and a t-shirt. Because if she gets my dick hard, I’m going to holla. End of story.
And also….
We need to keep in mind that the women who are out and about in their casual attire are in their REAL EVERYDAY STATE.
Meaning….
That’s how they’re going to look when they wake up in the morning and when they’re lounging around the house. So, a lot of you guys might as well get used to it. Because they’re NOT going to be dressed to kill 24-7/365(6).
Don’t get me wrong, I like a woman who’s dressed up too. But I know that’s just a temporary illusion.
And frankly, I don’t know about you guys……
But I prefer reality ANY day of the week.
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@ canadian girl
I am in my twenties. And every time I see a girl or a woman wearing a dress, there is just that little something that I don’t get from tight jeans or slutty outfits. In one word : feminine.
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Black&German January 28, 2010 at 05:35
I agree with you. There’s also one other benefit to eating home cooked meals, you know what is in the food.
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Oh yes, you have the opportunity to adjust the seasoning while it’s being cooked/prepared. In restaurants you don’t. I used to work as a chef. I do advocate home cooking. I know it seems weird.
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Robert,
That is true. I make my own bread and other baked goods, as well. Once you get used to doing your own baking, and then read a store-bought bread label, you’ll feel nauseated.
There are some high-quality prepared foods, but they tend to be very expensive, so they’re out of my budget. They’re also often loaded with fat, sugar, and salt. The preservation generally kills the flavor so they try to pump it up with seasoning.
Grimm,
I think you sort of missed the point we were discussing. This isn’t about “dressing up”, it’s about “dressing attractively”, which aren’t necessarily the same thing. A pretty, comfortable dress and some delicate flats or sandals is attractive and feminine without being “dressed up”. I know women, including myself, that only own such kind of clothes. It’s about their personal sense of style.
But, there’s an easy way to tell the difference: comfort and modesty. If the clothes she’s wearing look too tight, the shoes are too high, her face is caked with makeup, etc. she probably won’t do that 24/7 for the rest of her life. She’s dressing for attention.
If she looks comfortable and at ease in the clothes, doesn’t have too many bits hanging out of the fabric, and is wearing only a modest bit of makeup, then that’s probably how she just is.
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@ B & G
Point taken…
But honestly…..
What you said doesn’t negate anything said.
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EDIT:
“What you said doesn’t negate anything I said.”
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And besides…..
I think you missed MY point:
It doesn’t matter if a woman “dresses up” or “dresses attractively”…..
SHE’S NOT GOING TO BE DRESSED LIKE THAT 24-7.
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Why not?
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“It doesn’t matter if a woman “dresses up” or “dresses attractively”…..
SHE’S NOT GOING TO BE DRESSED LIKE THAT 24-7.”
I think you make a good point Grimm.
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SHE’S NOT GOING TO BE DRESSED LIKE THAT 24-7.
Why not? What does that mean? I mean, she does have to change into a nightgown at night, or whatever.
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Well at night she should be wearing lingerie.
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Well, yes, Gunslinger. But I think that they’re implying that she wouldn’t “dress attractively” 24/7. That it’s just a show she puts on occasionally.
Seems to me, that an easy way to get your woman to dress attractively 24/7 is to simply take a large trash bag and put all of her mannish and frumpy clothes and her granny undies in it, and toss it in the dumpster. Then take her shopping, and pick out the clothes she will wear. If she only has nice stuff, then she can wear that or go naked. Either is fine. LOL.
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You sound like a fantasy character – a winged-beauty with a magic wand and helmet sent to guarantee happiness. A Segasaulle.
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Actually, I’m completely normal. It’s the other women that have gone off to fantasy-land.
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When you go to the grocery store, don’t you notice that they sell flour, yeast, fresh vegetables, buttermilk, etc? Don’t you ever wonder why they sell those?
Maybe it’s because there are people who actually cook and bake! Maybe there are fabric stores because there are people who sew! Maybe there are gardening stores because some people garden!
There’s a big world out there, Firepower. And, yes, NAWALT.
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It’s the Internet
It must be
true
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When I am at home with the kids I never wear a dress. Try climbing on top of the garden shed or up a tree in a dress. Why am I doing that? Because I have a mischievous fun loving 9 year old son, who does not understand the dangers involved (due to his autism) in some of these pursuits.
Usually I wear leggins t shirt and sneakers. Very appropriate and sensible under the circumstances.( I also work out for an hour a day..)
When I go out which is not that often, I can wear a skirt and relax. Don’t wear dresses because I have trouble getting the right fit. Like my mother, I am big breasted but smaller around the hips and waist. It’s genetic.
Before anyone says anything- I am hopeless at sewing.. Just terrible. Don’t have the knack. So I can’t make my own clothes. I can cook however, so I am not a complete loss
Bake a fresh loaf of bread each night, too B&G. Have done since I got married, as it’s Hubby’s favourite.
Now.. the gear I wear is not frumpy. I have a good shape, due to all the exercise I have done over the years. Hubby thinks I look attractive.. And, that’s what counts, of course.
Granny undies
what a quaint notion B&G.. 
And… I always put on a little makeup and freshen up before hubby arrives home.
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I’m pretty good at sewing, but I don’t really enjoy it. My solution is to buy secondhand clothes and have them tailored to fit. It comes out to the same cost (or less) as buying them new, and the quality is usually higher.
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”””””’Try climbing on top of the garden shed or up a tree in a dress. Why am I doing that? Because I have a mischievous fun loving 9 year old son, who does not understand the dangers involved (due to his autism) in some of these pursuits.”””””’
?
?
?
He should be climbing trees or on top of the shed there is some danger but that is normal I think.
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”Bake a fresh loaf of bread each night, too B&G. ”’
Redemption.
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Yes, Guns, that’s true but if he tries to jump off the shed into the neighbours yard he doesn’t get that the dog may bite him.
He doesn’t get that if he falls off the shed skylarking around, he could get seriously hurt.
He has a lot of trouble with abstract concepts at the moment. Like, I still have to hold his hand when we cross the road, as he can’t understand that he could be hit by a car and get injured.
When we are in the car however, he always tells me which way to go and what street to turn into. Which is good, really, ’cause I’m hopeless at directions too. lol!
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Kathy, I wear jeans or yoga pants when I’m at the playground and etc., too.
My point was that one shouldn’t assume a woman is only wearing a dress to impress others. There are many of us who prefer dresses and rarely wear anything else. Or who wear it out of religious conviction.
Bread is important.
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It’s the Internet
It must be
true — Firepower
Truer than
Tell
A
Vision
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