Since it’s the weekend and I’m in a reflective mood, I’ll editorialize a bit on the phenomenon known as “Game,” and what my take on it is. Many of our readers are very enthusiastic about Game, some of them hate it, and a lot of others have ambivalent views on Game. I fall in the latter camp, because, for one thing, it wasn’t necessary for me when I was an errant youth, and I’m past that stage of my life now, so I don’t really feel any need for it. And, quite frankly, I’m not all that thrilled about the idea of spending time with what you find out there these days. Better than most, I realize just how flat-out dangerous women can be today (many men don’t see it because the danger is by proxy), and I don’t want my kids to grow up with daddy in prison or dead because I got mixed up with the wrong one.
However, the emergence of Game is endlessly interesting because of what it says about what has become of our society. This is not a positive or negative judgment concerning Game, but rather an objective declaration.
To me, Game reveals an inversion of gender roles in our specific cultural context. The goal of Game is to get a woman (or women) to choose the man applying it. Historically, Game has been the preserve of females, who endlessly preen, jockey for social dominance, and do their best to enhance and display their sexually appealing attributes. Women play hard to get, they lie about their sexual virtue, and they position themselves so as to be in the most visible places where desirable men might congregate. Incidentally, the last is probably the most important reason even non-feminist women have generally supported the dismantling of all-male institutions — so that they could have better chances in the mating game through access to a larger pool of males. There is a subconscious calculation going on behind all of this, and its force is as strong as a river.
But now men have begun to adopt certain calculated measures toward a purpose that is fundamentally at odds with the female goal of corralling the best/strongest/wealthiest man she can find to labor for her. From the female point of view, Game is entirely subversive. It confounds women by manipulating the subconscious calculations they make in their own Game. It causes them to make what they may later perceive as the “wrong choice.” Of course, the idea that the men they snared were often swindled into making the wrong choice doesn’t occur to them, but even such self-protective attitudes as that can be manipulated by skillful application of Game. For example, many Game techniques involve giving a woman the impression that one is higher status than her, which triggers her instinct to go in for the kill before the “unwary” man detects this, and can get her into bed very quickly.
When properly applied, Game is doubtless effective. If it weren’t, we wouldn’t find certain women growing so alarmed by its emergence. It probably isn’t possible for all men to learn effective Game; just as some men can never quite wrap their heads around a foreign language past a certain age, many will probably never quite “get it.” However, it is likely that a very significant proportion of men can learn to apply it. Only a few will be masters, of course, but as The Fifth Horseman has pointed out it will only take some 10% of men running Game to start shifting social power back toward men.
Morally speaking, Game is troubling for many. Even if one is to take the issue of deceiving women out of the equation, it is bound to cause a lot of damage to men. Given our social reality and the removal of risk (female adultery is, in fact, protected by law and its enforcement mechanisms at the insistence of women), plenty of men will have no qualms about using it to seduce others’ wives. For women, there is no cost to committing adultery today, and for men no cost is incurred by sleeping with married women. In fact, given most child support and divorce settlements, both are rewarded at least as often as not. Single men who have adulterous relationships with married women often stand to gain under the current family law regime. This is a fact. Game will only make it easier for them to act on this incentive, and the philosophy behind most versions of Game can only serve as a justification for this behavior.
Then, consider the married men who will be tempted to run Game on women outside their marriage. They may find themselves successful, and then what? Inevitably, their wives will find out, and they will not feel very alpha after the lawyers and judges have their way with them.
So, certainly, Game can be destructive. In some situations it can be evil if you want to call it that. But if you strike out against it, you will not be changing a single thing. Let me explain why:
Game is a looking glass. This cultural adaptation did not emerge out of nowhere, but rather arose as a response to a specific set of conditions. It was not Game that created the conditions for its adoption, but rather the demands and actions of a loose coalition of people, including feminists as well as a surprising number of conservatives. Just as the use of poison gas by the Germans in WWI quickly led to its adoption by the allies, and the detonation of atomic bombs over Japan led to an arms race with the Soviet Union, unleashing female sexuality led to a male response that reflects the new reality. Call it a sexual arms race if you will.
When women go after Game, they are being just as disingenuous as the United States would have been had we condemned the Soviets for developing the bomb after we had already done so. If men want to attack Game without first calling for dismantling the family law regime, they are being just as kooky and short-sighted as the activists calling for unilateral nuclear disarmament during the Cold War.
My take on Game is that, given the enormous advantages women have gained through oppressive laws and institutions over the past half century, Game has emerged as one of the only weapons available to men. Certainly, it is toxic to many men, because it is really not suited all that well to our nature (which is why men have to make a concerted effort to study it) and will cause plenty of damage, but on the balance it empowers men, so it probably isn’t going anywhere. If, on the other hand, the EEOC were dismantled, the Civil Rights Act (included women at the insistence of dixiecrats) repealed and affirmative action done away with, Game would no longer be of net benefit to men, and would be suppressed very rapidly. But seriously, that won’t happen until the US government can’t afford to pay its employees anymore.
The greatest irony of Game is that men have coopted something that has always come naturally to women – cutthroat competition in the sexual marketplace – to advance their own interests. This is why I call it a looking glass. For those female readers who are disturbed by Game, I say take a good hard look at it, and if you have any perception at all you’ll see yourselves.
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{ 129 comments… read them below or add one }
My personal take (given that I am not particularly well read on Game):
Game seems like an effective short term strategy to get most individual men what they desire most – no-strings attached sex (so long as we assume they will not have a false rape accusation or what have you levied at them). It does not, however, appear to be a sustainable long-term strategy. After all, if we want the human race to continue, we will need to figure out a way to remove the wedge that has been driven between the sexes and go about the much maligned task of raising children.
When it comes to this, most men seem to think first-world females are completely unsuited to the task and prefer to outsource families – if this is even in the man’s plans for his life at all – to foreign markets.
I’m the sort that likes the conveniences and advancements of society, but not all the misandry and wastefulness. I’ve haven’t looked very seriously at Game because, to be honest, I’m afraid I would find it alluring. Game seems to be a way for a man to fulfill his natural polygamous desires. It seems like most men forget, however, that civilization is the triumph of reason over nature. This is why feminism is so damaging – it is an attempt to satiate the natural desires of women. On this view, one could argue that Game is just the other side of the same coin, the counterbalance to feminism. Neither will lead us back to civilization.
Again, some men see no problem with this, so long as they are individually happy (MGTOW – go your own way!). While there are advantages to going your own way, there are also disadvantages. Teams and groups can be powerful things if utilized properly.
Actually, in LTRs, game is the sort of thing that both parties try to fall back on before finally learning to actually talk to each other. The ‘emotional badmiton’ that subs for conversation is naturally appealing to women, after all. Being honest with each other about…anything is also problematic for both parties until they’ve been together for a long while. Sometimes it never happens, and I see a lot more gamesmanship in those married for ten years than I see in those married for two.
How to test for it: Can I make an offhand remark about the true nature of men or women in front of both parties without uncomfortable glancing back and forth, attempts to change the subject, leave the room, or seriously discount what I just said?
Of course—but I think we are already past the tipping point where any difference could have been made. All that really needs to be done is erase the most egregious and unnecessary advantages that women have accumulated (ie, eliminating no-fault divorce, restricting alimony to 3-years max, mandating shared physical and legal custody upon divorce, mandating equal child support payments of both divorcing parties, etc) and these problems would correct themselves. But things are way too far gone for this.
And sure, Game is about sparking attraction in and laying women—no doubt. But it’s also about empowering men by dispelling the carefully propped-up myths about female sexuality and revealing the truth. The man with knowledge of these truths doesn’t necessarily have to use Game to pursue women—he could just use this knowledge to protect himself and remain clear-headed in all of his interactions with the opposite sex. For instance, I have used Game at the office. Obviously, I won’t be kino-ing my boss or going for a kiss close with a fellow analyst. But subtle negging, and alternating between comfort and slight roguishness/wit has softened many a hardened career woman towards me and makes it a hell of a lot easier to get what I want at work and just it make through the day. Women are women, that doesn’t change no matter where you are.
And the end of it all, not every guy wants to fuck women and using Game to this end is time consuming and a hassle. I do it because I’m 26 and still very much led around by my cock—so it doesn’t actually feel like a hassle to me. But if you don’t want to use Game to fuck women then concentrate more on inner Game. Focus on learning about who you are, what your style is, and what weaknesses you may have concerning the opposite sex. It’s doesn’t have to just be about the women—it’s also about us.
Epo:
Was Game always a necessary prerequisite for honesty in relationships throughout the history of human experience?
The other way of looking at it, of course, is that our civilization is on a slow-burn course of self-destruction, anyway, and anything that accelerates that path is not a bad thing, but a good one. There’s a good case that Western civilization is pretty much terminal at this point, in light of demographic trends in NA and Europe. There are huge social and structural reasons for this, feminism being only one (albeit a significant one). One or two guys here and there finding foreign wives won’t change the course of the Titanic. 10% or so of guys learning Game will accelerate the decline — which may be a good thing in the long run.
I don’t personally run Game because I can’t personally be bothered. It’s not with the energy at this point in my life. But I do understand the appeal for younger men, particularly the kind of system-thinking intelligent young men who are often laid aside by the current dating market among the young.
Well stated.
Interesting.
Some observations.
1/ none of you invented “game”, you just stuck a label on something as old as nature, and then attempted to quantify it into a set of rules, and did that badly too.
2/ I don’t think of myself as anything but “Me”, but, within the confines of sex, none of you are going to be able to put me anywhere except poster boy for alpha male. To “Me” this “alphaness” or “innate game ability” or whatever you want to call it is as remarkable and exceptional as the lines on the palms of my hands.
3/ Welmer is right, when alpha males (your label) like me game (your label) it is very, very, very destructive for all the women we have sex with, and all the men who have sex with them, especially husbands / boyfriends.
4/ try to stop being angry / annoyed / hating for a moment (it’s not beta, it is omega, your strings just got pulled and you jerked, like a good little puppet) and just think about what I am saying, and substitute names and people from those around you.
4/ I will fuck your 50 year old wife, and she will do stuff with me she will not do with you. I will then fuck her 30 year old daughter, and she will do stuff with me etc, then I will fuck the 25 year old daughter, and she will do stuff etc.
5/ if you think this was a linear progression, mother > eldest daughter > youngest daughter then move on, think again, I can go back and fro, and I am talking about each one of them (females) knowing I am doing this… trust me, this is what women are like…
6/ for shits and giggles after 3 months with this family new horizons beckon, so you throw out the threesome challenge, you’ll be surprised how few reject this on moral grounds, most rejections are based on embarrassment, a greater proportion than you will be willing to believe will go for it.
7/ I have never used a condom in my life, and I don’t fire blanks, I’ve had chlamydia and trichomonas a few times, but nothing more serious, e.g. nothing that affects ME negatively. Diagnosis has always been by proxy. Think on this.
8/ I have had three women at the same time walk up to me in a bar and tell me they were pregnant, I have had two women from the same family tell me at the same time that they were pregnant. My answer was always the same, laugh and tell them to work it out between themselves which one I should marry. None of them ever called me on it.
9/ I have had (married) women who wanted a baby and who were “trying” for one with hubby jump my bones at every opportunity.
I could go on.
Those of you about to bleat that I was falsely accused of rape, yeah, I was, once, by a woman, who was basically pissed that no matter what she did or offered to do her 24 and 27 year old daughters offered the same as a threesome, and yeah the feminazi cops hated me for it, the male cops admired me for it, and one female cop jumped my bones for it… as you can see I’m not writing this from pound me in the ass penitentiary.
About now all you men will be muttering “I’d fucking kill you if…” etc, well I got news for you, you won’t, you won’t lift a finger, that’s a fact, based on 30 years of doing this. No man every lifted a finger. Lots of them looked angry enough to burst every blood vessel, but none ever lifted a finger, none of them even got in my face verbally.
Now most of you aren’t like me, which is probably just as well, as Welmer says, I’m destructive, but as far as the DNA is concerned a small proportion of the population being like me is just fine.
Fact is, as I have said before, I ain’t got a damn thing that any of you are “lacking”, ALL of you could be like me, except deep down you don’t want to be.
Maybe you don’t want to be what you are, but you don’t want to be like me, that’s for sure.
And now my final point.
10/ I never in my entire life fucked any woman who was not both gagging for it and sober, straight and sane enough to make that choice.
(BTW, if you’re thinking these are all jerry springer trailer park trash, you’re way off the reservation brother, I’m talking civilised professional white women, the trailer park trash will do ANYTHING, scary dangerous illegal immoral freaky shit)
I did not fuck up your marriage or relationships.
I was not in any relationships with any of the men, I did not make them any promises, I did not tell them I loved them, I did not take anything material or financial from them, all I did was fuck women, willing women, eager women.
“your” women are the ones who fucked your relationships, and deep down you know this, you know they are at fault, and you know you can’t blame a man for taking what is offered so freely and willingly, and that is perhaps why no man has ever done shit to me….
The ones who *thought* they were alpha males rutting the whole herd were the ones who were the quietest, angry as all get out, but controlling it, and speaking as calmly as they could… because that door remains open to me, why pour oil on a fire?
You betas, your problem is not that people pull your strings, your problem is you react, your problem is not that you do not abide by “the rules”, your problem is that nobody else does, and we aren’t going to change, why should we? what is in it for us?
Federz gets pissed at the ethnics, because he plays by (what he sees) the rules, the ethnics don’t.
It’s like a game of soccer, as long as you keep trying to kick the ball, the other side will win, because they simply kick you in the balls at every opportunity, then casually stroll down to plant the goal.
You can get as angry as you like, there is simply no motivation for them to work any harder than kicking you in the balls, and until and unless you join them, you will continue to lose.
If you join them, if you join me, you will bring the whole house of cards down in flames within a decade.
None of you understand what ALL women are.
None of you understand what rules ALL women play by.
Understand what “game” is, an illusion that you are the puppetmaster, and you stand a chance of teaching yourselves NOT to react every time someone jerks one of your strings.
THAT will make your lives better.
“game” an other activities that put you in closer proximity to the “works” of people like me won’t.
The ___only___ defence a man has against someone like me is a wife who is genuinely monogamous… and there are precious few of them in western society, or two know me as a friend (why shit on my own doorstep)
Pussy control. That’s your only answer.
Doesn’t bother me, plenty more fish in the sea, and plenty of cunt-struck men’s wives and girlfriends and daughter too.
Well, there is it, make of it what you will, or don’t, doesn’t affect me either way.
Game is just a marketing scam to teach males human seduction. It always existed, it just was not a system that was taught for money, and a system where things are labeled to give the appearance of a technical field. I remember reading a book that was written hundreds of years ago that could be considered a “game” manual, the book had such insights as “seduce the maid first, and use that as a tool to get to a noble woman.” Men have lied about their social status for hundreds of years too, and perfunctory reading of older novels would give you that information as well. For instance, Chiechekov’s “Dead Souls” is essentially about a man that is falsifying his economic fortune. That’s not quite hundreds of years old, but I think it’s still a fairly old book.
The current incarnation of “Game” for those that actually believe it to be a rigid system is mostly a marketing campaign by a few men, most notably David DeAngelo. He actually spent years trying to get it off the ground before it caught on, and then after he made money off of it, others just materialized. The actual book, I forget the author, of course also went a long way into popularizing it.
Due to the above, I don’t think it is more harmful now than in the past or anything of any real concern. The concerns for “game” are simply the leaves, the root of the problem is societal values and the laws in place. Game simply is the manifestation of proper seduction techniques in that environment. The maid rule obviously doesn’t matter now, but the maid rule would be considered just as deceptive.
Women who criticize game should have a good hard look at themselves (not that I expect them to do so , of course) for they have been shamelessly using Game to manipulate and control men for thousands of years. Payback is a bitch!
1 – Game is rife with confusions and ambiguities, and I believe is poorly understood even by its foremost practitioners and theoreticians. Which is right as it is something in its infancy.
Its widely thought that Game seeks to deceive women into thinking a man is high status, and this widely abetted by Gamesters own embrace of the slogan *fake it till you make it* as well as the very name Game.
But the truth is you have to fake nothing – thats a misunderstanding. If you had to fake anything dont you think women would be able to detect it? How good are men at faking *strength*? When you see a macho guy – i.e someone who tries to fake strength – are you convinced or you do see right through him?
What you have to do is ACT. You have to treat yourself with self-respect. All the other gimmiks and tricks of Game that dont have to deal with actions that support ones self-respect are worse than useless and are the fantasies of hopeful men grasping at straws. They have their origin in the dim beginings of Game with Mystery – a guy who was a magic performer and naturally turned that aspect of his personality into part of his Game. But such tricks were never an integral part of Game and will be refined away as time passes and their transparent nonsense will show through more and more.
There is no fakery involved in treating yourself with self-respect, is there?
And you are not trying to deceive women that you are *high status* – any such deception will very soon be unmasked. There is no deception involved – self-respecting behaviors are attractive in and of themselves. The speculation is that these behaviors have traditionally led to the acquisition of high status and power by men, and women frequently had to make decisions about young men BEFORE they were able to achieve status or social position, so women have evolved to find these behaviors attractive as clues and indicators to the future status of men.
But there is no deception here. Just as men for some reason or other have evolved to find certain body and face types attractive even though in todays world such information might well be irrelevant, so too with women.
2 – From personal experience MOST men will be unable to *get* and apply Game.
Ive discussed Game with lots of guys who have great qualities but suffer from difficulties with picking up women and who would benefit immeasurably from Game, yet who either have an extreme, insurmountable resistance to the ideas in Game – extremely common, much more common than many think – or appreciate it intellectually, claim they are completely won over, but immediately revert to nice-guy behaviors when its crunch time.
Ive come to the strange and slightly depressing conclusion that only a tiny minority of men can benefit from Game. It has often been said that no one can get out of a book what he doesnt have already in him – that the book just draws out what you have in you and makes you conscious of that part of you.
I now truly believe its the same with Game – a man must have SOME little bit of Alpha in him t be susceptible to Game. Game merely makes him conscious of his inner Alpha and brings it out. Game does not make any man into an Alpha, not can it ever do that.
I now recognize that what seems like an obtuse and mindless resistance to Game on the part of many men is really a great inner wisdom speaking out in them – they KNOW, on an instinctive level, that they can NEVER behave this way, that they have no strength or manly pride in them, and consequently that Game strikes no chord, utterly fails to resonate. There is no manly pride for Game to speak to.
Game wont really change anything at all – it wont decieve women because it is incapable of deceiving. It is merely a tool for identifying and educating people who already are, to some degree or other, Alphas.
’nuff said
I feel neutral about Game.
I recognize it for what it is and what it isn’t. It’s only a threat to those women who are sexually promiscuous. Since the easiest and simplest way to not be “fooled” by Game is to not have sex with anyone besides your own man (who is free to seduce you, to your own benefit and enjoyment), the rest of us look on and shrug with indifference.
The women complaining remind me a bit of someone tripping during a burglary and then suing the house owner for damages. Why were you robbing the house in the first place?
Although, may I point out that this isn’t necessarily true:
to get most individual men what they desire most – no-strings attached sex
For many men, the preference is for a monogamous, long-term relationship. Even many PUAs are men who have simply given up the hope for a true love-match, although they would actually prefer one.
It’s also very age-dependent, with the interest in promiscuous sex generally declining with age.
“For many men, the preference is for a monogamous, long-term relationship. ”
*chuckling* No.
I would take sex with a beautiful woman who I never saw again over a “long-term relationship” any day.
The only women who are interested in monogamous LTR’s are,in my experience, psychologically dependent Lorena Bobbitt-types who freak out because they had a dream that you were cheating on them. Shit you not, my ex pulled that shit on me and that’s only one example of ONE crazy bitch who clung to my ass like a barnacle for more than a year.
Every man who has had very much experience with women has a similar horror story.
Now, if I was 100% sure that I was signing up with a sane (for a woman,anyway),mature adult, who wasn’t interested in using sex as a bargaining chip to either punish or reward me like I’m some kind of fucking poodle, and reasonably certain that she wouldn’t use the fruits of our union in order to siphon 18 years worth of rent money off me, I MIGHT be induced to get involved with a woman long-term, but monkeys will fly out of my ass before that happens.
The woman I just described does not exist.
”””””The woman I just described does not exist.””””
Actually they do.
“Actually they do.”
Yeah, in China.
The odds of running into a woman who acts like an adult and isn’t psychologically fucked up where I live are about a million to 1.
Why I highly suggest if planning on marrying woman from us you save a couple hundred k first and become financially independant before marriage so that you can weed out the ones that don’t cut it.
I mean with the woman using teamwork. Will be a good teambuilding experience and something you accomplished together that will be a memory for the rest of your lives.
@AfOR
1,277 words. Took you maybe 45 minutes to write. As you only ever make one comment – this one – do yourself a favor and make a copy so you can just paste it next time. LOL.
Even if a man’s preference is for long term relationships, marriage will soon sober him up. Yes in ignorance it is possible to have fantasies but once experienced marriage will soon reveal that all that is available is a living hell. Look I don’t personally know all women, but that is not going to stop me saying that all women go through a period of insanity. My estimate is that it begins when she is married for about a year and end when she is about 55 if your lucky. Take it from me – this insanity can be extreme.
””””Paul January 23, 2010 at 08:43
Even if a man’s preference is for long term relationships, marriage will soon sober him up. Yes in ignorance it is possible to have fantasies but once experienced marriage will soon reveal that all that is available is a living hell.
””””””’
I must admit I have not been married long but with her for almost 5 years so far not hell. I’ll let ya know in 30 years or so he he he
I did follow my own advice though he he he
We built something together which hopefully we will both be able to enjoy.
When fucking a man over unlawfully via the commiting of a series of crimes in the family court many women take the position ‘all is fair is love and war’.
When they are on the dominating and controlling end all is ‘ok’ by women.
When a man is on the dominating and controlling end it’s the hell not ok.
Western women being hypocritical? Gee…tell me something else that is news.
Eastern women play ‘game’ just like western women used to. They feign ‘weakness’ and ‘need to be protected’ as part of giving the man the opportunity to show his wares how he will ‘take care’ of her if they were married. The entire thing has ALWAYS been a ‘GAME’ for men and women to play in order to try and get the best deal for themselves in marriage.
That a handful of men have had the termerity to actually look into this, apply their intelligence, and come up with a more reliable way to get laid? That is shocking and upsetting to women?
Please…..move on…nothing to see here…..women being hypocrites…situation normal….
“Morally speaking, Game is troubling for many.”
That ‘many’ would be stupid idiots ignorant of what is happening in the world. Why should I care about them and what they think?
@Gunslingergregi
Yes I generalise as a warning to others. Also I find it hard to internalise the opposite explanation which is that I am the only cursed man ever to have exited.
Well, yes. But the thing is that the vast majority of women are promiscuous:
http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20061220/premarital-sex-the-norm-in-america
As a Gamesman, I definitely like those odds.
@Gunslingergregi
Yes I only state my case as a warning to others. Also the opposite explanation that I am the only cursed man ever to have existed is something I find difficult to internalize. I have often feared that this might be the case.
Yea paul you are obviously not the only one. Why there needs to be some new rules about what a woman needs to come to the table with to be rewarded with marriage. Need to find a way to weed out the woman who cannot commit to anything. I think a good way to do that would be the creating something together thing. I mean with at least half marriages ending in divorce yea gonna be kind of rare to find a good one.
If you just give them a free ride there is nothing to prove must make them prove themselves worthy of the investment and the gift of your time in helping to raise a family.
Besides adultery, another societal upset is that guys who master Game have very little incentive to make wage slaves of themselves. A single guy can get by on extremely little… throw a family into the equation, and suddenly he needs to go toil away 60 hours a week. Remove that need and life gets a lot simpler. “Nice guys finish last” isn’t just about the bedroom, but the workroom too…
Personally, I’m glad of it. I say, it’s past time we kick over the current economic/gender-role system and bring in something more sane!
AfOR:
Hmmmm.
aFor
Your comment that affronted guys “never” retaliate against an interloper will come as a surprise to anyone with any knowledge of history or anthropology. Or even to anyone with a connection to the day to day realities of crime stats..
These are the only Game rules you need to learn:
1. don’t get her pregnant
2. don’t marry her
Gamers are nothing more than women-caterers. There is no honor in that. True alphas don’t follow female demands, they make their own.
@Toby +500
Game should only involve a refinement of masculine self-improvement and awareness.
I could be wrong, but my impression of many “gamers” is that they don’t have the heart or soul to handle women yet. Oh, they handle to pussy fine, but that’s it…
Xamuel January 23, 2010 at 09:18
“Personally, I’m glad of it. I say, it’s past time we kick over the current economic/gender-role system and bring in something more sane!”
Xamuel,
correct observation. When I was married I HAD to work 2,000-2,500 hours per year from 1986-2007 to ‘support my family’. In the early years of courser it was ‘future family’. After divorce I can comfortably live on 300 hours work a year. Now, I work more than that because I am not a lazy bastard. But that is ALL the hours I NEED to work.
Even more amusing is that since I refused to volunteer to pay spousal support or child support my poor unfortunate ex NEEDS to go to work…and the poor deary NEEDS to work 40 hours a week to pay for HEr CHILDREN, the ones she kidnapped and claimed 100% ‘ownership’ of. An ownership I agreed to in the end by dis-owning them as ‘my’ children. Yep. Men who refuse to co-habit with these hypocrites can get along on FAR less work.
Black&German January 23, 2010 at 07:36
“For many men, the preference is for a monogamous, long-term relationship.”
B&G,
the problem you women now have is that many men like me DID want this. My ex was only the third woman I had sex with and one of the others I only had sex with once. I really wanted JUST ONE WOMAN. For some reason your ‘sistas’ decided I should be totally shit on in divorce. And since divorce I’ve had sex with about 20 women and with three of them I’ve had the kind of ‘lovemaking and intimacy’ that I begged my ex for over the last 12 years and was denied. My position now is MUCH better and I am MUCH happier.
So I say to all young men. Refuse long term monogomous relationships. I tell them my experience. They believe me because they can see I am honest and am relating to them as an honest man. That ‘many’ men is plumetting as men like me get the message out to the younger men.
The really funny things is that these ‘empowered’, ‘liberated’, ‘independent’ western women scream blue murder at the idea that a man is saying that men should remain ‘liberated’, ‘independent’, and ‘empowered’…
Face it B&G. Us men have now cottoned on to the whole bag of lies western women have been telling and we are informing the younger guys. The intelligent ones will listen. The stupid ones will continue to believe the lies women tell. Pretty soon, the only men who will marry are the type your dad warned you about…
Phoenixism January 23, 2010 at 10:01
“I could be wrong, but my impression of many gamers is that they don’t have the heart or soul to handle women yet. Oh, they handle to pussy fine, but that’s it”
Phoenixism, so do you think you know ‘how to handle a woman’?
Take it from me dude, women are not worth ‘handling’. When one plays up on me I just kick her out and get the next one.
@AfOR
None of you understand…etc.
1,277 words. Took you maybe 45 minutes to write. As you only ever make one comment – this one – do yourself a favor and make a copy so you can just paste it next time. LOL.
___
Charles,
afor reminds us of that type of boy back in high school or the town drunk who, out of massive insecurity or some kind of mental/emotional disorder, pretends all the women are “digging” him, especially the taken ones – you know, cause of his ‘massive’ masculinity – lmfao!
this ‘guy’ has some serious issues. sounds like he is overcompensating for something he is deeply ashamed about, like being a ‘closet’ homosexual or something – especially when he has to say it in 1,277 words.
AfOR:
Hmmmm.
___
Yup, just as I suspected.
The most useful value of Game is to DODGE THE BULLETS that women shoot, from marriage to wasting a lot of money to getting emotionally depressed.
Getting laid with a lot of hotties is merely the second most valuable use of Game.
That said, it should still be used as a screening mechanism, rather than a means to bed a large number of women in a short time. As Welmer said, that is risky. Plus, going by my example and that of others I knew in the early days who became well-known PUAs, once a man sleeps with over 20 women, all of whom are in the 8 or higher range, he is pretty much ‘spent’ in terms of a lifetime of lust. After that, a cozy LTR, or just infrequent trysts become the norm.
Very few men have an appetite for pick-ups after the 20 mark or so.
Also, men who run Game on married women or even women in serious LTRs are fools, as they are greatly increasing their chances of a false rape charge.
Besides adultery, another societal upset is that guys who master Game have very little incentive to make wage slaves of themselves.
Yes, this is why I say the Fourth Horseman is male economic disengagement, and resultant tax-base shrinkage (because of the ‘progressive’ tax system).
A man who halves his income might cut his tax by 80%. What happens to the state then? See : California and Michigan.
This is why Moderate Game Competence (defined by me elsewhere) is worth $2 Million.
One problem I continue to see in discussions of Game is the belief that Game is only about being a PUA, rather than about LTRs.
The overlap between the skills needed to be a PUA and to use Game in an LTR might be 75%. Game is, after all, an understanding of what women find attractive.
Hawaii Libertarian is the most readily visible example of LTR Game.
2 – From personal experience MOST men will be unable to *get* and apply Game.
80% of men and 99.9% of women will never, ever, ever comprehend Game.
or appreciate it intellectually, claim they are completely won over, but immediately revert to nice-guy behaviors when its crunch time.
Yes, this is common too, as it takes HARD practice to overcome various hesitations and self-doubts. This is an under-discussed aspect of Game, and it is what earns revenues for seminar-peddlers, so they *love* the prospect of men who understand it intellectually but think that a seminar can jolt them into practice.
80% of men and 99.9% of women will never, ever, ever comprehend Game.
That has very little to do with Game itself, but is pretty common with many aspects of altering personal behaviour.
Vancouver Cops Openly Admit They Beat Domestic Violence Suspects:
http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=181283
Women have their own state-sponsored thugs aka COPs
Most people that enter the sales profession are scared shitless of asking closing questions – even one. Although, most salesmen will tell you that they close most sales on the 5th close.
Game is much like anything else in sales, as that is what it is, except adapted for the sexual marketplace.
ABC – Always Be Closing.
It’s why most people fail at commission sales.
Globalman:
Won’t get an argument from me on that one.
Thing is, this is one form of handling whether you want to admit it or not. An extreme form of handling, but handling nevertheless.
If you look at several techniques in Game, like Roissy’s Agree and Amplify, this comes directly from a sales technique known as BREAK, used for overcomming objections. (The vast majority of which are not real, but are subconsiously thrown out by people).
B – Bypass the objection/ignore it and keep going.
R – Repeat the objection.
E – Expand the objection.
A – Accept the objection.
K – Close on the objection.
Game is just an attempt at labeling and quantifying the human mating process. Any attempt to banish “Game” only serves to criminalize male & female sexuality.
Game theory reminds me of two of the classic examples used to illustrate the theory of evolution.
In England, the Industrial Revolution caused coal dust and soot to cover much of the nation. White moths had previously been more common than black moths, but when the entire countryside became coal-colored, black moths had an evolutionary advantage and beagn to outnumber the white ones. When natural gas replaced coal as the main source of power in the 20th century, white moths once again dominated.
In Africa, the areas where malaria is present closely overlap the areas where sickle-cell anemia is common. Sickle cells provide immunity to malaria, so the genetic weakness is less lethal than the parasite and it is positively selected in evolution in areas that have lots of malaria. Outside of those areas, it’s just a weakness and offers no compensating immunity, so it is less common.
Game is an adaptation to a sick society. It offers the chance to reproduce to those who learn it, but it is ultimately self-defeating because it forces men to act like women. That is no way to run a railroad. Acting like a barbarian works in a barbarous society, but we can’t continually increase the number of barbarians without collapsing the modern economy.
Once the economy collapses completely, then the fake Alphas and their loose women won’t be able to feed themselves and the problem of their continued existence will be self-correcting.
Once Western civilization implodes, game will go with it.
A couple of weeks ago I politely asked a simple question of a woman in my office, who promptly burst into tears. She is now behaving around me as a dog when the human has doggie treats. But hell no, not going there…
So that’s my GAME advice today: Unintentionally make her cry. Booya!
I don’t get feminine upset over male employment of Game.
After all, women have been gaming men since the dawn of time. Lipstick? Game intended to hint at fertility/readiness for sexual activity. Push-up bra? Same thing. Showing cleavage? A now overused attempt to attract male attention. Playing hard to get, using the “rules”, employing kinos, or other attempts to frame the encounter in her favor? All game. All chick game.
Now that the tables have been turned, do they protest. Sorry, not buying it. If a woman lies, defrauds, and manipulates men as a matter of course and thinks nothing of it, then she has nary a leg to stand on when/if he does the same to her.
Vancouver Cops Openly Admit They Beat Domestic Violence Suspects:
http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=181283
Women have their own state-sponsored thugs aka COPs
___
Wow, even the Kops in Kanada are Wite-Knighting, mangina pussies!
Kanada is worse than a third world country.
Wow, even the Kops in Kanada are Wite-Knighting, mangina pussies!
Kanada is worse than a third world country.
The world renown and once national jewel known as The Mounties, have become a national disgrace. Sam Steele would single handedly bitch slap the lot of them – including the ones who let the traditional uniform be degraded so officers could wear turbans while in the service. (That’s aimed at you, Vancouver).
@ Elusive Wapiti,
I don’t get feminine upset over male employment of Game.
Have you ever noticed that both men and women seem to project their sexual desires onto the other? Mangina men are often doing the same thing as they think they would like in a relationship – ie, blowing sunshine up her ass and building her self-esteem, etc.
Game is nothing new. It is at least as old as Ovid. What’s new is that it may actually work. I am doing my Latin MA thesis on the pickup manual known as the De Amore attributed to Andreas Capellanus, and his game is, well, medieval. Andreas gets some things right, but mostly he recommends using arguments to persuade women to love you by logic. The bulk of the book is made up of eight sample dialogues with routines according to the social class of the man and the woman, and mostly they just consist of the man pedestalling the woman and trying to convince her that he is worthy. None of the men succeed in getting laid, and the entire scheme is so feckless in terms of actual seduction that there is a huge controversy over whether the whole thing might be a hoax. And then there is the problem of the third book, which is a condemnation of love and a rant against women. How do we reconcile this and what is the true purpose of the work? No one has really been able to figure this out yet.
While contemporary game may work better, ancient and medieval writers sure put more care into their writing. They produced literary works that are a pleasure to read, in contrast to the current deluge of throwaway marketing scams. I don’t need another DVD or hastily written e-book. Somebody take the present state of knowledge and put it into hexameters or something, please.
Jed “Game does not make any man into an Alpha, not can it ever do that.”
Sure it can. Anyone who identifies himself as a PUA is automatically an alpha. Not that this has any meaning in the real world… it’s like being level whatever in Scientology.
“I now recognize that what seems like an obtuse and mindless resistance to Game on the part of many men is really a great inner wisdom speaking out in them – they KNOW, on an instinctive level, that they can NEVER behave this way, that they have no strength or manly pride in them, and consequently that Game strikes no chord, utterly fails to resonate. There is no manly pride for Game to speak to.”
Game is as weak and unmanly as it gets. PUAs are vain, superificial, narcissistic and insecure little bitches who need constant validation and approval from others, and who can only feel good about themselves by treating non-gamers as trash. They are also immature, irresponsible and hypocritical. Among others things.
“Have you ever noticed that both men and women seem to project their sexual desires onto the other?”
Yes. Mirror-imaging is a harmful and often self-defeating human tendency.
One of the more positive aspect of Game is that it encourages beta men to reject all that Hallmark BS they were taught about what women like and act in a manner that women really respond to.
Arpagus wrote:
“…and mostly they just consist of the man pedestalling the woman and trying to convince her that he is worthy. None of the men succeed in getting laid, and the entire scheme is so feckless in terms of actual seduction that there is a huge controversy over whether the whole thing might be a hoax. And then there is the problem of the third book, which is a condemnation of love and a rant against women.”
That the ancients recognized that pedestalization turns into condemnation and ill will should be quite indicative of its value as a behavioral norm.
“That the ancients recognized that pedestalization turns into condemnation and ill will should be quite indicative of its value as a behavioral norm.”
How can pedestalization be a normal behavior if it is unsustainable? Unsustainable = cannot stand the test of time = not normal
Andreas gets some things right, but mostly he recommends using arguments to persuade women to love you by logic.
This is another thing that Game has gotten right, and that is similar to sales.
“Sell the sizzle, not the steak.”
If you were to look at a car salesman trying to sell a car, many innexperienced ones try to sell logically – ie. with facts, figures, horsepower, suspension systems etc. etc.
But that is pretty hard to do, really. After all, the only thing you are selling that way is transportation. And that is pretty hard to do – it is why I drive a $500 20-year old car that is bullet proof reliable (and chases off gold-diggers). It is reliable transportation and that is all I want. If a salesman wanted to convince me to buy a $40,000 new car, he’s got $39,500 worth of talking he has to do if he wants to convince me logically by transportation value! Good luck!
If he were to sell it emotionally, he’d have much more luck. He could sell the image of me owning it. He could sell the pride I would feel pulling up to my friends’ houses in it. He could sell the sexual value of it to me in impressing the ladies. He could sell the prestige of it in relation to my job. He could sell the reward of it that I deserve it… all of which are a helluva lot easier than building up $39,500 worth of value than by talking to me about rack & pinion steering – however, he could sell me on that point if I had a wife and child, and he built safety value my telling me how I could better swerve around an unexpected obstacle on the road.
All emotions, zero logic. Sell the sizzle, not the steak.
It’s the same thing as building ownership. A car salesman will inquire of you whether you will be parking it in a carport/garage or if you will be keeping in the driveway. Either way, he will be following up with a feature that is beneficial for either situation. The point was not to sell the feature though, but rather to build a mental image in your head of the car at your home – ie. you owning it. A realtor does the same thing with you as they present a house to you – they will inquire about what kind of furniture you have, and point out how it fits here and there, or they will paint mental images of your children playing in the back yard – all to mentally paint a picture of you owning it.
Game recommends the same thing – don’t dick around trying to first make yourself a “nice-guy” etc. etc. – Almost immediately, you ought to be painting a picture of yourself as a lover, not a friend. Same technique.
””””’Null
Game is as weak and unmanly as it gets. PUAs are vain, superificial, narcissistic and insecure little bitches who need constant validation and approval from others, and who can only feel good about themselves by treating non-gamers as trash. They are also immature, irresponsible and hypocritical. Among others things.
”””
“pisses on null”
There you go bud the validation you seek lol
Maybe you should read my post again, because I’m not the one who’s seeking validation from others.
Null responds after being internet pissed on talking about validation.
There is no further need for your validation null I have already given you that with the first comment. Glad I could be of assistance though.
In fact, I could paint so many similarities between “Game” and “Salemanship,” that I would recommend for those who find traditional venues of discovering about Game to be distasteful, to alter their field of study. ie. First find out about evolutionary psychology in regard to sexuality, and then study books on salesmanship, and merely adapt it to your product – in this case, yourself sexually.
Game and Salesmanship are the same in that a good PUA and a good salesman, both leave the customer extremely satisfied – ie. they have properly “sold” the product, and built enough value that the purchaser does not feel ripped off after the sale.
Salesmen who are unconfident about themselves, do the pits. Desperation is also the worst disease that could ever befall a salesman, and it reeks from him in everything he does. If he is worried about paying the electricity bill, and is desperate to make the sale, he will fail miserably.
A salesman who is ripping up the sales, however, can almost do no wrong, and sales fall into his lap as if by magic.
Not much different than Game, and desperation leading to failure. Always have two in the kitty – come from a position of plenty.
Also, the most successful salesmen are the ones who take charge of the situation, rather than letting the situation, or the customer, take charge of him.
For example. I went to Granville Island a while back – it is a trendy/artsy place in Vancouver with all kinds of shops. I walked into this one shop that sold hammocks. They sales staff did not walk up to me and ask, “Can I help ya?” If they had, I would have replied, “No thanks, I’m just looking.”
Instead, I walked into the store, and after giving me a pleasant greeting, immediately the salesman (a woman, in this case), immediately and excitedly said, “Come with me! I want to show you this!” And off she walked with me following right behind her. She opened up a hammock on display and immediately had my ass plunked into it, and then, while she was telling me about how comfortable hammocks are, she had me get my feet inside of it and was painting pictures of me reading while in it etc. etc.
She didn’t ask me if I was interested in hammocks. She just assumed I would be. (Why else would I have walked into the store?), and she took charge of the situation, and told me what to do. And I did it. And I enjoyed the situation, and being in that store. I found it a thoroughly positive situation, and don’t feel manipulated at all. She was a good salesman.
In the same way, if you are trying to strike up a conversation with a woman in a bar, and are intending to buy a drink. (I know, I know, don’t spend any money, but this is an example). Most guys will walk up to a woman and ask, “Um, duh, can I buy you a drink?” To which, of course, she will most likely reply, “No thanks.”
A far more effective approach would be to walk up to a woman you are interested in and after a brief introduction, you say, “What are you drinking?” And simply wait for her reply (It’s hard to say yes or no to that, isn’t it?) Then you simply give her an order, “Wait here, I’ll be right back.”
If she is there where you get back, you’ve got it made, and you just keep ordering her around. “Come with me to my table.” And off you walk to your table, and you just assume she will follow. She most likely will. If she objects, see the BREAK technique further up, and adapt it to your situation.
Game calls this congruence or something like that – but, it is a common practice of top level salesmen.
Toby, “norm” as in “normative”, or the way something should be.
Thankfully, pedestalization as a norm is waning in influence.
”””””””’Fedrz,
Game recommends the same thing – don’t dick around trying to first make yourself a “nice-guy†etc. etc. – Almost immediately, you ought to be painting a picture of yourself as a lover, not a friend. Same technique.”””””””””””
Yea but not a lover but someone who wants to fuck her. Really game is helping keep the system alive in a way because it gets guys who would not normally go out and get a woman to go out and approach woman. So sometimes these guys will get one and be so happy to have one that they stick with her even though not compatable and he doesn’t have enough experience dealing with woman. The good part is the other aspects that come up like thinking about what you want out of a woman you get with so that if the woman is not meeting it you can move on. Giving guys the tools needed to make proper choices in who they have ltrs with and to know that there is more than one pussy in the world and they are not all the same. Then seeing other guys experiences maybe they can know what to look for or maybe come up with their own criteria for weeding out ones who are not right for them. Overall the problem is that most guys are probably going to want kids at some point which is the crux of the fucked up situation guys are in.
Gunslinger “Null responds after being internet pissed on talking about validation. There is no further need for your validation null I have already given you that with the first comment. Glad I could be of assistance though.”
Are you high or do you just have really serious problems with reading comprehension?
””””””Not much different than Game, and desperation leading to failure. Always have two in the kitty – come from a position of plenty.
Also, the most successful salesmen are the ones who take charge of the situation, rather than letting the situation, or the customer, take charge of him.
”””””””’
Makes sense and from that position of plenty you can be like what makes you worth my time? You reverse it and get her to convince you of why she deserves your dick when you can give it to other woman. Only so many woman you can fuck a day but a woman can fuck tons of dudes in a day. So really the guy is more rare in the fucking department than the woman he he he
@Troll Detector
Maybe. And maybe AfOR is exactly who he says he is. He just needs a new schtick. AfOR’s magic dick. LOL.
I’ve been thinking and reading a bit about Game recently. I want to hear more about what picking up women was like in the past, actually. My impression is that 50, 60 years ago women were actually generally kind, gentle creatures for the most part, and it was easier to find a genuinely good woman by being a genuinely good man. True? And was it more about a relationship than casual sex?
I think with the arrival of feminism the shortage of good women out there has forced a lot of guys to settle for the bad ones. I was never willing to do that and even though I find “hotties” appealing even if I get them into bed I start to grow bored immediately. Part of it is probably that the dumb attractive girls generally don’t know how to please a man properly. The smart – and still attractive – girls always do, and half the time they’re actually good people too. And those are the only ones I can tolerate for more than a day or two.
I think a lot men are also looking for meaningful relationships with women who aren’t worth it. They’re looking for “hotties” and not looking any deeper, not realizing somehow that the “hotties” are generally rancid bitches not worth speaking to let alone dating. I wish more men would go for the good women that DO exist instead of settling for these skanks.
I don’t feel like I need to learn Game now because I have found a good, genuine, kind girl who isn’t a crazy feminist and does support men’s rights. And I always had a little bit of natural Game. To be honest I’m surprised to have found a good woman these days; I thought I would. Hopefully she doesn’t turn crazy in the end.
JDurd: Game is a necessary prerequisite for honesty…but only one party needs to apply it at any given time. Traditionally, the social sphere was for women and the honest sphere was for men and the elder ladies. In short, ‘Ugly people to tell ugly truths.’ I’m finding myself agreeing with a Cracked article that said that attractive people basically have very few to no people they can trust to tell them the truth. Game gets you into the conversation, but only honesty will get you out with something resembling a good outcome.
AfoR: Yes, I know you’re trying to run Roissy-in-the-comments, I’m-a-monster-so-you-should-be-too game on the men on this site in order to motivate as many as possible to go out and engage in an uberbangfest. Semi-laudable goal, but not all countries are as messed up…or as crowded…or as ready to punish the guilty (meaning easiest to arrest, usually the guy who called the police in the first place) party as England is. British girls are slut-tacular because their men, their society, and their government are shot to hell and no one cares anymore. Far beyond America’s at the present time.
And to all the guys comparing game to sales-having been in sales, salesmanship is TIRING. You can run routines and get good at them, catch the waves of human emotional peaks and troughs, close so you win and close so you annoy, and learn a helluva lot about the human condition in the meantime, but damn if it ain’t draining. And often creating of a huge hate reserve for your fellow human beings simply because you deal with them at their most devious, whether buyer or seller. Ironically, it also tends to make you more subject to your emotions outside of work since you’re focusing on controlling them for the rest of the day.
I mean, what does this sound like….oh yeah, the more you act to get the advantages of women, the more you’ll end up with their disadvantages? Something like that?
Or pretty much no matter how many times a guy wants or can fuck a chick she can take it. A guy can only fuck a certain amount of times a day. So if he has 20 woman in his harem he ain’t gonna get to all of them in a day. So they will have to fight over who gets a turn. A woman who had 20 guys could probably take care of them all he he he
Biggest act of salesmanship ever in making guys believe pussy is scarce when it is not the case. Men are the scarce resourse.
Gunslingergregi January 23, 2010 at 15:04
“Men are the scarce resourse.”
Money is the scarce resouce women are after. My mate Mr. Truth said to me: “GM, women make much of the power of the pussy. But the power of money beats the power of the pussy, hands down, every time. You, grasshopper, have the power of money if you choose to use it.”
Yes, Mr. Truth actually calls me ‘grasshopper’ and does the whole kung-fu thing when deliving his wisdom. Usually when we are very drunk! I tried this wisdom and he is 110% correct. Women throw themselves at a man who looks like he has money, is known to be single, is known to have been a good husband and father. Men in my age bracket with my income with my track record are less than 1 in 100 of the guys out there. I am a very scarce resource. And I like it.
I’ve always been conflicted between wanting a relationship with a good woman and wanting dirty kinky sex with slutty women. Also lol @ afor.
I’d always been a nice boy until late in college when I took it upon myself to become a sarcastic, funny, superficially charming guy, and I always had a great smile. It led me to treating all women like sluts, even the nice ones who might have been worth pursuing relationships, but at least I got laid. And looking back on the girls who WERE nice they either leaned too much toward feminism or were a bit crazy or both, so I don’t regret treating women as disposable. To be honest, most are.
Black&German:
For many men, the preference is for a monogamous, long-term relationship.
David:
Yes. A man who is prepared to do some serious work on a woman can have a lot of fun with a wife. If you are a good husband, and practice some natural “game” and a bit of conscious “game”, it can work well. My wife has just left to take my son swimming at a friend’s place. She is not very happy with me at the moment, but I have been ignoring this, and she still served me breakfast this morning as usual. Never mind what women say, if they continue to provide wifely services, all is well.
A wife can be a companion. Women aren’t always the most intelligent conversationalists, but they can be good sounding boards. (My wife gets a lot of her ideas and opinions from me actually. She often repeats my views back at me. It is quite funny.)
I remember seeing a girl in a magazine say that she wanted a man to provide the goods, and she would provide the services. This bimbo actually got it right. That is the way it often works. I provide the goods and my wife provides the services. I really don’t want to do laundry and that kind of thing. Despite what hoity-toity feminists claim, women really don’t seem to mind this kind of repetitive busy-work as much as men. (I think there is a good evolutionary explanation for this.)
And a wife can be fun. You have time to explore each others’ little quirks and kinks. We are not that young any more, but just in the last few months, I have fucked my wife outdoors, spanked her outdoors and indoors, done her from behind with her over the edge of the bed, and made her pose for me semi-naked.
You get the best of all worlds with a wife. I would never take up with some random skank. There are too many risks. I have only had a couple of such relationships and they caused a surprising amount of trouble and pain for various people. The biggest lie the media gives us is that random sex with random people is easy and fun. Bullshit.
Marriage with “game” is the best thing for a man.
but you can get a girlfriend in a committed relationship to do all that for you as well without the legal risks that come with married life.
And to all the guys comparing game to sales-having been in sales, salesmanship is TIRING. You can run routines and get good at them, catch the waves of human emotional peaks and troughs, close so you win and close so you annoy, and learn a helluva lot about the human condition in the meantime, but damn if it ain’t draining. And often creating of a huge hate reserve for your fellow human beings simply because you deal with them at their most devious, whether buyer or seller. Ironically, it also tends to make you more subject to your emotions outside of work since you’re focusing on controlling them for the rest of the day.
Well, I am the only guy trying to compare it to salesmanship – and you’re damn right it is tiring, because in order to a job like that well, it takes enormous amount of effort, practice, and dedication.
And they are not just routines. In fact, it is more breaking routines than anything else. “Can I help you?” and “No thanks, just looking.” – That is a routine. It is something that is done without thinking, and quite often, the customer feels ripped off, and would have had a much better experience if a skilled salesperson presented the product to them. Like I said about the hammock shop, of course I was interested in hammocks. Why the hell else would I have walked into a hammock store?
I have done sales before – lol, obviously! And I agree with you about dealing with buyer or seller at the most devious level. In fact, I have most often found it is the customers that are the ones who are the most devious – even moreso than the worst salesman. Although, it doesn’t bring in more sales to relate that. Also, I found after a while that people really are not very bright, for the choices that they make. But, I also found that a good salesman is one who does a proper job of selling, and it is to the customers that buy from a good salesman that are the most satisfied of all.
And I’m not talking about some cheese-dick in a plaid suit pulling all kinds of swarmy tricks. Those are bad salesman. Just like Game is not neccessarily about sleezy sex-fiends trying to find slutty girls in order to debase them. A good salesman and a good PUA/Gamer do a good job in giving the customer what they want. So much so, that they are not actually “sold” so much as they are “led” by a confident, knowledgeable person who is in tune to their needs and wants.
Afor is a bad salesman. Herb Tarlek.
Hawaiian Libertarian is a good salesman. He’s not only knowledgeable, but he is actually delivering to his “customer,” exactly what she wants and needs in precisely a manner that she finds enjoyable.
And there’s nothing wrong with that in either Salesmanship, or in Game.
Btw. When I walk into a place, I often ask for the top salesman. Because I know that will give me the best experience.
@Globalman
The way I look at it is I want to create an organized crime family like in the movies but without the crime part. Loyalty to the family, rich beyond wildest dreams, raise kids in a loving environment where people look out for each others interests.
It never made a dam bit of sense to me why a family that tight would ever have to resort to crime to have their own gated compound and nice cars and lifestyles since they were so willing to put mad hours into crime and dedicate massive amounts of time to that. With the same dedication level to saving money and opening businesses in a legite way they would be able to be even more succesful without having to resort to killing people or shit like that. Why would they need to go up to businessmen and demand a cut or they beat them vs just opening their own businesses through the sweat of their own brow and getting the sense of accomplishment from being able to do that. The movies always acted like life is a zero sum game someone has to lose so you can win. In reality there are losers and winners but it is based primarily on work ethic and what you do with the value created and lets say 7 people creating value that is potentially a lot of raw material to work with in creating an empire.
So yea fedrz my sales pitch is pretty solid. I am talking about creating something that will hopefully last generations to the benefit of all.
And proving my theories correct so far.
I’ve always been conflicted between wanting a relationship with a good woman and wanting dirty kinky sex with slutty women. Also lol @ afor.
if your women are not sluttier, dirtyer, more willing in relationships than one-night affairs, you are doing relationships the wrong way
And I’m not talking about some cheese-dick in a plaid suit pulling all kinds of swarmy tricks. Those are bad salesman. Just like Game is not neccessarily about sleezy sex-fiends trying to find slutty girls in order to debase them. A good salesman and a good PUA/Gamer do a good job in giving the customer what they want. So much so, that they are not actually “sold†so much as they are “led†by a confident, knowledgeable person who is in tune to their needs and wants.
Afor is a bad salesman. Herb Tarlek.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/peterco/scene-Herb-Tarlek_article.jpg
OMG Fedrz, this is exactly how I pictured afor would look like – moth-eaten leisure suit and all!!
You are an absolute trip there, Fedrz, particularly with your very creative use of pictures – especially the sandwiches with the rain-romano-ruckus!(Mmm, I am getting pretty hungry – LOL!)
Wondering why this topic hasn’t been covered much on Spearhead these days.
Does Roissy no longer have plans to contribute?
Some very good comments in this thread:
“Understand what “game†is, an illusion that you are the puppetmaster”
There is some truth to this, even as we learn proficiency in the art.
“I now recognize that what seems like an obtuse and mindless resistance to Game on the part of many men is really a great inner wisdom speaking out in them – they KNOW, on an instinctive level, that they can NEVER behave this way, that they have no strength or manly pride in them, and consequently that Game strikes no chord, utterly fails to resonate.”
Totally agree. The commercially motivated PUA materials refuse to acknowledge this, and generally avoid the reality that some guys have physical limitations that will keep them from their total fantasy of being a player (even as they improve their outcomes marginally).
“Gamers are nothing more than women-caterers. There is no honor in that. True alphas don’t follow female demands, they make their own.”
It depends. I think you should be cautious not to be a caterer, but there are many flavors of game and some guys operate with integrity better than others.
“That said, it should still be used as a screening mechanism, rather than a means to bed a large number of women in a short time.”
Excellent advice. Honestly, the stretches where I’ve seen 4-5 women in a week are never remotely as satisfying as a weekend with a girl that I have great chemistry with.
“Very few men have an appetite for pick-ups after the 20 mark or so.”
Lots of people will disagree with this. However, I agree in my own personal experience. Again just comes down to the differences between us. A close friend of mine is 44, and has slept with hundreds of women, and probably 100 in the last 2 years alone from my observation.
It’s like ambition. Most guys are happy with so much — 200k, 300k, what have you. Other guys are like 500k, 1m, what’s next? Ah yes, 2m! And so on. It’s the same with sexual conquerors. Some guys are “sated” with a moderate high level, and others are truly prolific.
Let me also add that for the women who don’t like that Game makes them attracted to men who might not be rich….
….. it is far too late for that.
Women’s primal attraction circuits give them gina tingles for thugs and serial killers. In pre-modern times, these men were in positions of high status. Men who owned plantations or major dominions also had ‘alpha’ skillsets.
But today, in the knowledge economy, men who would have met quick deaths in the old days are now investment bankers and tech entrepreneurs. In the modern world, a lot of wealth is owned by men who cannot evoke gina tingles. Men who are both rich and can give gina tingles (athletes, movie stars, musicians) are too few for most women to get.
So it is WOMEN who did not evolve past the norms of 5000 years ago.
Game did not disorient women. The knowledge economy already did that beforehand.
It is women who are lagging behind, evolutionarily.
This I very much agree with.
Fifth Horeseman- there is something seriously wrong with your theorizing here, and lets admit that nothing is proven and youre just theorizing.
First, it is simply a fallacy that women are attracted to thugs and serial killers – the truth is far more nuances; SOME women are attracted to thugs or serial killers. Do you seriously think these women are the majority? The women I know are most certainly NOT attracted to thugs, not to mention serial killers. How do I know? These women get hit on by thug types all the time. They have no interest in them.
Attraction to thugs and serial killers is far from a female universal – it is more like something that characterizes low-IQ uneducated females.
Sure, women like confident, assertive men, but an educated, high-IQ woman will choose an intelligent educated confident man over a thug every time she has that choice. That some Game guys dont grasp this is strong evidence that they dont actually go out into the club scene and use their own eyes but rely instead on sensationalistic accounts by people who are spreading serious misinformation.
Second, that women dont like the kind of intelligent men who do well in todays society is equally false. Do you REALLY think that intelligence had no survival value in prehistoric times? Really? Is that why we evolved such comparatively large brains and high intelligences, because intelligence had no survival value?
I think it far more plausible that intelligence has great survival value, and historically that men with high intelligence were the ones that achieved high status and positions in society. In historic times, the most *alpha* men – men like Julius Ceasar, Cesare Borgia, Alexander the Great, and so on – were all men of EXTREMELY high intelligence who could not have done what they did without it. Men of mere brute strength or thug-like disposition were typical foot soldiers and grunts for the men with brains. Its always been so – it is almost impossible to be Alpha without a fairly high level of intelligence.
It would make no sense of women were not attracted to high intelligence. There was ALWAYS a *knowledge economy* – it is NOT a unique feature of modern times – why do you think Jews got rich in Middle Ages Europe if there was no knowledge economy that rewarded intelligence?
Further, forget about pre-historic times, it makes no sense that traits were not selected for in the 10,000 or so years of historic times. If Jews could be selected for super smarts in a mere 1-2 thousand years, you really think that the traits that make for Alpha males in historic times couldnt be selected for in five to ten times that time span?
Of course, while women ARE attracted to high intelligence, it is not SUFFICIENT. A strong male personality is key too.
But thugs and serial killers, while they MAY have strong male personalities, are still at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to men and lack many other male attributes women find attractive, and why do you think highly attractive women would choose the lowest types of confident assertive male when many better types of confident assertive male are available to her?
Makes no sense. Some nuance is in order, please.
Women’s primal attraction circuits give them gina tingles for thugs and serial killers.
Or, maybe that is because these are the only kinds of manly men that are still around today!
Or, from a male point of view. If every woman in the USA was a 300lb slob, shovelling Rotten Ronnies into her face, bursting with zits, and foaming with diahrea…
Well, how attractive would a 135lb woman be with healthy skin, a normal figure, and an “average” face be to you?
I know who I would pick.
Is that why we evolved such comparatively large brains
Large brains is horseshit. Neanderthals had larger brains than us. More evolution hocus pocus to suit an agenda, not science.
Yeah but were still smarter than Neanderthals, whose lack of intelligence didnt exactly give them survival value.
Yeah but were still smarter than Neanderthals, whose lack of intelligence didnt exactly give them survival value.
No doubt, but brain size relating to greater intelligence is still hocus pocus.
One thing I find about Game that is extremely valuable, is it ought to show us men that before we can fix women, we must first fix ourselves.
It is the first rule of survival. Save yourself first! Cause if you die, you can’t save anyone else!
And fix them we shall!
Le Sigh……..
If half these game proponents spent half as much time understanding what makes them as individuals -TICK/THICK?- the revelation they receive will allow other things to flow naturally.
Spend time understanding how to make ‘PEOPLE’ comfortable and want to be around you, learn how to assosicate with people especially people with power and influence. Work on leaving a lasting impression of yourself on anyone you meet.
Seek knowledge where ever it can be found, be genuinely interested in other peoples story, say what you mean, mean what you say. Your courtesy is given, but your respect has to be earned.
Look at the man in the mirror, set your priorities straight, this very same social breakdown is what has convinced these folks they’re missing out if they havent bagged more chicks than they can care to recall.
If you sleep the prescribed 6 hours a day, you would have slept 3 months of the year and 20 years asleep by the time you’re 60. If you live to be 80 years old you would have only lived 29 200 days 9733 days of those would be spent sleeping. Life is short.
KNOW THY SELF AND CARPE DIEM (SEIZE THE DAY).
And ‘I’ sort of ‘look on’, while munching on a sandwich.
Take note of that, Raine and Romano. R & R means a sandwich! LOL!
@ Jake
With regards to you rebuttal of TFH, thank you very much.
I hate pyschoanalysing, but the guy comes across as the type of guy who is afraid of women of intellectual parity with beauty to boot -strong, intelligent, independent women, professional women- (gasp, i just said a feminist mantra).
So he fouses on bagging unrefined, low status beauties, whose socialisation teaches them a different version of what a attractive mate option is. He’s then surprised when those same low level females he assumes he should have a pull over exhibit there value system, which is counter to his expectations.
Voila, he concludes all females are serial killer lovers interested in spawning thug offsprings. TFH maybe raise your bar a little and try getting to date those women from a higher social class and hence different value system perhaps?
Game isn’t new. Back in the day I used to “teach” game when I was pledge master at my frat to socially akward pledges. We called it “scamming” back then, and the ideas were similar. But I never got to the level of Mystery or some of the other celebrity PUAs who are absolutely brilliant at what they do.
I think those that benefit the most from “game” are those that are socially akward nerds that are finally establishing their lucrative careers. These nerds are solid on women’s LTR valuing system but their spaziness makes women go “ewww”. “Game” helps neutralize the “eww” factor for the women for these otherwise fine men.
When Nobel laureates start bragging that they have slept with thousands of women and basketball players are perpetually lonely, then I’ll believe that women view a high IQ as a major turn-on.
Most women simply don’t know what men are talking about if anything even vaguely technical or scientific or mathematical is a topic of discussion.
If you you randomly select a US twentysomething chick in a bar and tell that that you are engineer, she’ll ask you if you drive a train. Seriously. It’s happened to me. They are blissfully unaware of the entire apparatus of civilization and really don’t care about the details. As long as someone, somewhere, somehow can support their shopping habits, they are happy, and if they are made unhappy the nearest man is held directly responsible.
In the US, it’s always open season on the smart kids in public schools while the jocks get the girls and the accolades. After that, the jocks are still selected as the “leaders” and end up as the managers. Then they berate the “brains” because they can only make a 10% greater profit per year manufacturing actual things while Wall Street can make paper profits of 30% more per year by cooking the books.
Or, from a male point of view. If every woman in the USA was a 300lb slob, shovelling Rotten Ronnies into her face, bursting with zits, and foaming with diahrea…
Well, how attractive would a 135lb woman be with healthy skin, a normal figure, and an “average†face be to you?
Sounds like you have “lady” vaine in mind here!
Gee, by these ‘standards’ the washed-up ‘stripper’ (prostitute) must think of herself as a veritable ‘Monica Belluci’ (her words). LMFAO
Sounds like you have “lady†vaine in mind here!
Gee, by these ’standards’ the washed-up ’stripper’ (prostitute) must think of herself as a veritable ‘Monica Belluci’ (her words). LMFAO
Says a smart-ass out of a nation of men willing to lick women’s rectums, and get kicked in the nuts for fun. And nary a protest has been heard in forty years!
@ Troll Detector,
Sorry, that may have been a little abrasive of me. Not sure if that was meant as a slam to what I said or not.
However, at the same time, if we as men looked at ourselves honestly, we sure have become a civilization of neutered, bootlicking males to have tolerated this fucking crap in the first place.
First, we should stick up for ourselves, and say “fuck this.” And take our balls back out their purses. Then we’ll figure out how to breed some common sense into them.
Sorry, that may have been a little abrasive of me. Not sure if that was meant as a slam to what I said or not.
Fedrz,
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding, as I surely meant it as a slam against the ‘rapidly obsolescing, embittered lonely attention whore’ that goes by the online persona of ‘Lady’ CumStaine’.
Being that the average weight of the ‘ladies’ in Staine’s neck of the woods (the trailer-park areas of the American Rustbelt) probably averages close to 200lbs, a crack-ho like her is downright anorexic – and she probably thinks she is so ‘fly’ down in her ‘hood.
“Home Stank Home”
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/home-stank-home/
..as I surely meant it as a slam against the ‘rapidly obsolescing, embittered lonely attention whore’ that goes by the online persona of ‘Lady’ CumStaine’.
And the dizzy broad still hasn’t learned how to “cook” a sandwich!
(Her words – “cook”, LOL!)
Sorry about my misunderstanding. Fire away!
@AfOR
One of the basic fundamentals of being an alpha male, as you claim you are, is that alphas don’t feel the need to qualify themself through bragging. Like you just did.
My impression is that 50, 60 years ago women were actually generally kind, gentle creatures for the most part, and it was easier to find a genuinely good woman by being a genuinely good man.
They were, and scientists are fascinated by the phenomenon. Genetically, they were largely the same, but because the environment they grew up in put a premium on femininity, that was what was cultivated. The emphasis on aggression, sexual promiscuity (leading to early onset of menses), and extreme thinness seems to have masculinized the female population, by raising their testosterone levels. Those things are prized, so those things are propagated. Haven’t you noticed that women today look much more mannish than those of the past? Of course that’s going to have an effect on male-female relationships.
I see it when I look at old, family photos. We have some dating back to the 1800′s and the people become more androgynous with each passing generation, even though it’s the same gene pool. Women have selected for dads rather than cads, and men have selected for sluts instead of moms.
I also see it in my own face and figure. It’s much more feminine now that I’m a SAHM. As my hormonal make-up has changed, so has my temperament. Steffi Graf and Heidi Klum are good examples. They’ve both softened quite a bit since marriage and kids. And Heidi finally has a behind.
(Meant to comment on this yesterday, but I forgot.)
Yummee.
That’s like fighting a school of sharks with a toothpick.
Then,
having PETA arrest your corpse for animal cruelty.
good one.
Nobody gets it gunny.
It’s all become a Salon.
The French Revolution wasn’t won in a parlour
I thought about fighting it but that would have entailed my own death. I could not bring myself to kill semi innocent people as religion does have me somewhat brainwashed on that one. Someone would have to do me personnal grievious harm for me to go to the killing fields.
I haven’t been forced to pay child support nor alimony. I haven’t been falsely accused of rape. I haven’t had a woman attempt to keep me from seeing my kids. I haven’t been falsely accused of domestic violence. I have no skin in the game in that regard.
lol – so you’d make a good D.I.
I am kind of surprized at the amount of guys that do not do shit.
OF course realize that men are standing up for their rights but they are dead so ye you would have to look up their individual stories. OJ he he he
Oh wait oj ain’t dead.
Them ‘not doing shit’ is the symptom of a lack of leadership. Most in the bootcamp age bracket never grew up in an America that didn’t kiss Oprah’s ass.
Think about it.
They’ve ONLY ever known certain things that we despise, yet they think it’s normal.
Therein lies a danger.
Well did ya see my thing about wanting the chick I am with to have an abortion and some of the guys on here were like well you fucked up time to pay lol
My fucking mind was blown.
And then also well I would do the same over again. Again my head was about to fucking have bloody brain matter everywhere.
It was like well shes got you lay down and take it up the ass.
Bitch she ain’t got shit I am a man who makes is own motherfucking descisions about what the fuck I am gonna do.
Funniest part is she was the one who came up with creative ways to have the kid and thought outside the box. I was impressed. MRA’s talking about I am fucked or whatever and the woman I got preggers talking about how she could keep and raise my baby without me being involved. Wierd Shit.
Many of the guys interests are those of traditionalists.
Imagine their mindset as “Pre-Feminists” and those that value a society where feminists never won.
Perhaps this traditionalist view includes a hatred of abortion; many an old-fashioned man who stormed the Normandy beaches sees opposing abortion as protecting the defenseless – the innocent.
I used to be against it, but realize it’s a great way to stop the urban toilet from overflowing into my front yard. If I can reconcile a once deep held belief to pragmatic reality, perhaps others can.
Yea I was against it too from my catholic upbringing but yea when it comes to a kid that is not gonna have a father and is not wanted well why not especially after I looked at a picture of what the baby looks like at 4 weeks. When it starts looking like a baby sure pretty bad shit. Oh well she having the kid anyway so I was saved that moral dilema. That is the thing it doesn’t stop the urban toilet from overflowing. It stops the middle class from having kids lol
The Middle Class ranks are forbidden to grow not by abortions, but mainly in a Tax burden that forces them to also pay for the Urban Future Obama Voters of Amerexico.
It’s not just the loss of the offspring of the Middle Class, it’s the loss of Smart People Having Kids Class.
Now, only like, the Stooopid breed lol
Yea my parents have no grandkids yet. My family always tests higher than 96 percentile.
The people I hang out with now who are black have kids out the woodwork. Every woman has from one to 9 he he he
Add the Stoopid pumping out tax-subsidized future carjackers of Amerexico – and subtract the smart NOT having kids and there ya go.
Multiply it by high percentile folks never having grandkids and those 9 ghetto babies having 9 each of their own and soon, the only future job for Billy Whitebread will be Government Benefits Co-ordinator or chalk outline. haha – ever see COPS 0r “First 48?”
I try not to watch cop shows as I have seen to much of the real shit.
Whats crazy is white males are the minority yet we still carrying this bitch. Smart move is to get the hell out of dodge to a place where you are actually appreciated.
Heh, well I was one of those guys who kinda opposed your view on abortion in that situation, Gunslingersgregi.
My argument was that “you knew the rules.” And, it is the same as I feel about men who talk about getting married – we have been running around warning, warning, warning… and getting stonewalled, and opposed, and called misogynists and on and on and on. And little White Knight mounts his steed and goes off and gets married anyway, and 5 years later comes back to an empty house and a “Dear Sucker Letter,”… Well? Didn’t anyone tell you the rules before you played the game?
It’s like a guy walking into a casino after I have just sat him down and showed him the odds, and explained that “the house always wins, so play accordingly.” A few hours later, he walks out $10,000 poorer, a tear in his eye, and now expects I should sympathize with his desires to break into the casino to rob them, in order to get his money back. No dice. It wasn’t like he was suckered, or that the casino was cheating. Those are just the rules, and they are stacked against you. The only person who lied to you was yourself.
So, if you are going to have sex… you are taking certain risks. If you are going to have bareback sex, you are increasing your risks exponentially, and so on.
It’s just like it’s a little hypocritical for a guy to run around talking about how he won’t get married, because there are too many women cheating and leaving their husbands… and so he learns game and becomes a master at not only having sex with available women, but he also goes beyond and starts knowingly scooping other people’s wives through psychological manipulation and now acts like he is all morally superior and there’s nothing wrong with it. No, that isn’t morally superior, that is choosing to be the sludge at the bottom of society – you have become what you loathe, and are harming others. It’s a fail at being a human being. It’s kinda hard to complain that a cuckolded man unwittingly raising another man’s child is the same as rape, while at the same, knowingly cuckolding a married man and essentially being 50% of the equation that is doing said Cuckold Rape.
The abortion one is tough. I am quite opposed to abortion, but at the same time I also recognize that men have virtually no reproductive rights to begin with – and those rules are perfectly clear to anyone who reads sites like The Spearhead, or Roissy’s, or who merely even has eyes in his head.
It has very little to do with “being a traditionalist.” Because, I am not a “traditionalist.”
One thing that studying about the “Traditionalist Way” is good for though, is that it is obviously a system that works. In fact, it seems about the only system that has worked so far. So, anything new that comes about in the future, I believe, will have to be compared to what is known to work, as this is a very manly way of moving forward, rather than just pulling crackpot unproven theories out of one’s ass, as feminists and other Socialists have done.
But, I also find it kind of disheartening that men cannot find the moral fortitude to rise above being the type of trash that feminism has made our women into.
Just because everyone else starts looting during a riot, does not excuse your thievery when you happily join in with them.
HAHAHAHA
Game is 95% dumbo’s feather. It’s about getting otherwise reserved guys out there hitting on women in urban settings. The story always runs “I was not hitting on women. Then I started using ‘game’ and hitting on women and got laid.” Well I’m pretty sure the “using game” component is so secondary to the fact that you started hitting on women regularly as to be irrelevant.
Women come and women go
they all have the same story as every other ho.
Thanks for the extra clarification of your position fedrz,
Some more on mine.
â€â€â€™ starts knowingly scooping other people’s wives through psychological manipulation â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€™
Makes it sound like she had no choice she knew I was married and it was limited time arrangement. Hell the reason why I felt I was minimizing risk because she was married and talked about waiting for her husband and also wanted a temporary thing. Takes no account of peoples choices. Where was the manipulation? On top of that I insured that she told the husband about me early on so that he knew what was up and could make an informed descision about what he was gonna do and how much convo he was gonna have with her and could reduce his emotional investment if that was his choice. I guess it wasn’t needed since her kids told him about me and by the way none of her kids are his biologically so no child support for him. I may have done the dude a favor overall maybe he thought he had a woman who wouldn’t cheat now he knows diferent. Maybe he can learn not to cook and clean and be the personal bitch of the next woman or find one who appreciates it long term.
â€â€â€â€â€It’s just like it’s a little hypocritical for a guy to run around talking about how he won’t get married, because there are too many women cheating and leaving their husbandsâ€â€â€â€â€â€™
Definitly not the reason I give for not getting married in the us. I was one of the first to posit that I did not want to marry an american chick because they fell under the stupid fucking laws that fuck the man. Heck I came up with that wisdom at the tender age of 18.
â€â€â€â€â€â€™ and so he learns game and becomes a master at not only having sex with available women, but he also goes beyond â€â€â€â€â€™
I guess a compliment but I have not read any game books period and I have no hero such as the likes of mystery which a lot of guys seem to idolize but I don’t really know that much about the founders of game. My thing has been to give some guys some tools to be able to defend themselves. I started reading the website when I read roosh’s european woman vs american woman post. Roissy posted at roosh’s site and I then read roissy as well. The thing is I am a master at getting what I want because I am completly honest about what I want.
â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€It’s kinda hard to complain that a cuckolded man unwittingly raising another man’s child is the same as rape, while at the same, knowingly cuckolding a married man and essentially being 50% of the equation that is doing said Cuckold Rape.
â€â€â€â€â€â€â€™
Never said it was anywhere. I probably agreed it would suck and it gave men another tool in the arsenal so they can test the kid at birth and almost know for sure if theirs or not.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cuckold
â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€™
cuckold 482 up, 131 down
buy cuckold mugs, tshirts and magnetsA husband whose wife chooses to have lovers.
â€â€â€â€â€â€â€™
If you go by that definition yea he was a cuckold.
You throw a false accusation since you refer to roissy’s discussion of it and what men truly feared †a cuckolded man unwittingly raising another man’s child is the same as rapeâ€â€â€â€â€™ By that definition he was not cuckolded by me. He knew before the pregnancy that his wife was seeing another man. He knows she is pregnant. There are no resources he is going to lose out on by his wifes choice to keep the baby. She chose to have the baby even though she could have chosen to not have it and the not having it was agreed upon in advance of the pregnancy. He will not be unknowingly raising another mans baby. She plans on divorcing him but if they stay together he would knowingly be raising another mans kid that his wife chose over him.
Oh yea none of her kids are his.
The reason I picked her for temporary ltr was because she was in same position as me somewhat. So really I always try to minimize risk.
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