Hate Bounces: How man-hating and man-bashing harms women – the making of a misogynist

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by zed on January 18, 2010

Misogynists are not born, they are made.

Once, a long time ago when the world was young, I loved women with all my heart and soul. I grew up among strong competent women who understood that all living things need to be taken care of and will flourish if that happens.

The men I grew up with knew that as well. Everyone knew that people must live and work together and find ways to cooperate and just deal with the inevitable differences that arise and keep them in perspective. They knew that people are not perfect, but that most of them try to be as good as they can manage. They took the measure of a person in wholeness, and if there was more good than bad to a person, they accepted that person’s faults as being part of the package which was still valuable, if a bit flawed. After all, nobody really is perfect. We all knew that.

Then, something happened. And that something was called feminism. I remember the early days of the movement when it was called “Women’s Liberation” which was a high sounding and noble cause in a country which is founded on a document which cites liberty as one of 3 inalienable rights that every person has. No one with a sense of fairness and an understanding of civics could be against women being liberated and treated fairly. And, there was also the promise that some of the ways men were being treated unfairly would change along with it.

And, as the old joke goes: if you believe that one, then I have some lakefront property in the Mojave Desert I’d like to talk to you about.

I learned very quickly that feminism wasn’t about liberating PEOPLE from their previously too restrictive roles which were assigned to them based on the plumbing they displayed at birth, but rather was founded on a number of absolute falsehoods which had nothing to do with freedom, equality, or fairness. The fundamental premise that men had MORE power, not just a different kind of power and in a different area of society as a whole, but MORE power in a complete and absolute sense was something that I vehemently disagreed with. I could come up with thousands of examples of circumstances in which women had more power than men did. And in every example they gave of where men did have any power, I could easily point out the uneven distribution of power among men, and how a few men at the top of the wealth/influence pyramid had a lot of power, but that the vast majority of men had very little.

The strangest thing was that most of the situations in which I was being told I had or was exercising “power” seemed absolutely ridiculous to me. When I was a college freshman, one day I was walking across campus toward the student union. I reached the door about a half step ahead of a female student so, as I had been brought up to do, I hastened my last couple of steps and held the door open for her. Instead of the smile and nod that I had been used to in response to such simple acts of social courtesy, she flew into a rage and started screaming at me about how what a male chauvinist PIG I was, that she was perfectly capable of opening that door for herself and didn’t need any g– damned MAN to do it for her, and kicked me in the knee.

“Shock” is a totally inadequate word to describe my response.

I was at a loss to understand any of her reaction. She couldn’t have been any more totally, completely, and absolutely wrong about my motivations and purposes. I instantly assigned her to the categories of “mentally defective,” “hate filled,” and female. Over the next several years, a lot of women joined her company.

A couple of years later, a woman that I was dating described her feminist “consciousness raising” group as consisting of “perfectly satisfying man hating sessions.” Again, I was bewildered. I asked why she found hating me(n) so “perfectly satisfying.” I don’t remember the answer she gave, but she soon proved to me just how true that statement was of her. Like the knee-kicker in response to having a door opened, it seemed that anything and everything I did was proof that I deserved her hatred and rancor. At least 10 years later, she called me out of the blue to apologize. She said she realized that she had just gotten swept up in a group consciousness of hatred and had finally realized what had happened and that I had not deserved the bile she had spewed on me.

It was, I suppose, better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but it was too little and too late. Because, by then I had encountered so many other women who acted in pretty much the same way that it had simply become part of my view of what women were. Somewhere, deep down inside, either hidden or proudly displayed, women hated men. Women came in a variety of sizes and shapes, most had breasts and female genitals, but they all seemed to come with a hatred and fundamental contempt for men. One woman I dated while Jimmy Carter was still president spoke of “my hatred of men” in the same matter-of-fact tone that she might say “my nose.” It was just an integral part of her.

Needless to say, this presented me with a significant paradox and source of internal conflict. Being a healthy heterosexual male, I had the natural and universal desire that men have to have a loving relationship with a woman. But, how is it possible to love someone that returns hate for that love?

So, over time I began to develop a wary distrustful posture toward women. I still dated them, but I had become so conditioned to expect hatred from them that I simply accepted it as part of the price I had to pay in order to be involved with one. My desire for a relationship was still strong, but was opposed by a distrust and unwillingness to let someone who hated me get the upper hand over me. Thus, in my mind the concept of “commitment” became one and the same as “trapped in a relationship with someone who hates me.” I was indeed one of those men who “wouldn’t make a commitment.”

The worst part of this, for me, is that it blinded me to the warning signals of some truly sick personalities. The hostility which I had become accustomed to enduring from women became only a matter of degree – greater or lesser. And, with a baseline of being kicked in the knee for the courtesy of opening a door, and learning how “satisfying” man hating is to some women, I had no yardstick to sort out the seriously sick and deranged women from any of the rest. As a result, I ended up in some relationships that were truly horrible and very damaging to me. And, of course, each of these left scars which over time built up so much emotional scar tissue that I began to lose all the positive feelings I once had for women.

That is the personal side. And, I won’t bore you with the details of all the stories. But, there eventually got to be so many that I developed the attitude that the question was not “whether” a woman would burn me if let her get close enough to do so, but “when” and “how soon” it would happen.

On the political side, things were just as bad if not worse. About the same time I started becoming the target of violent physical attacks by individual women for what I perceived as courtesy, I also became the target of vicious verbal attacks by women collectively – just for being a man.

I remember the first time I saw the slogan “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle,” I knew my face had just been spit in. Men were not just useless to women, we were irrelevant. We had no purpose in a woman’s life, and did not belong in her world at all. It was a message of hate, dismissal, and refutation. But, I also saw it as a warning of what was to come. It was like seeing clouds on the horizon, and knowing that it is time to get under cover because a storm is brewing. And, since it was obviously smearing shit in my face, it was going to be a shit storm.

Soon it became apparent that women could say any damn thing they wanted about men – no matter how wrong, no matter how hateful, no matter how unfair – and that was fine, but every time I stood up to that and said “no, that is wrong, there is another point of view” I’d get some little fem-bot harpy in my face shrieking the same old tired slogans, like a mindless Chatty Cathy doll, about how I was threatened by losing my power, wanted to keep women “in their place,” was probably violent, and was a misogynist. The dull predictability and regularity of it all was only kept from being terminally boring by the shrillness and sheer vehemence of the attacks.

There is a belief among those who believe in magic that one must speak a spell 3 times in order for it to become binding and true. It took being called a misogynist a lot more than 3 times to become true, more like 3000+, but in time it did become true.

I began to see women as vicious creatures whose only agenda when it came to me, or any man, was to see how much they could get from the man – then when he had nothing left to give because they had taken it all, toss him out with yesterday’s garbage. In short — I viewed them as nothing but users.

Feminist author Wendy Dennis came out with a book in the early 1990s called “Hot and Bothered: sex and love in the 90s.” Among many other astute observations in the book was that nothing was more classically typical of the state of male/female relations than the woman who complained bitterly about every aspect of men, then couldn’t figure out why she couldn’t get one of these awful creatures to fall madly in love with her. I had observed the same thing so many times that I had simply concluded that such women were simply not very bright. In stark contrast to the mythology of how socially adept women are, I was baffled that such women were so stupid that they didn’t realize that no living thing will respond to such projections of distaste, contempt, and hatred with anything except return animosity.

I took to avoiding women, particularly groups of them, because I could never sit quietly and put up with the bashing and would always challenge it, which ended up in a lot of fights and added greatly the count of times that I got called “misogynist.” I noticed that women seemed to do it habitually, without thinking, and would confront my female friends over and over until they learned not to do it in my presence.

And, after 3 decades of listening to it, and hating it, and trying to keep the animosity which had been building in me over it – when the husband of a woman friend of mine (who had been very dishonest about her motivations for our friendship and had been trying to harass me into turning our friendship sexual) threatened to kill me and she said “I don’t know why you are making such a big deal about it,” I caved in and really did begin to hate women.

Most of the time this hatred lies dormant. I figure that the best thing I can do for myself and for women is to keep the contact I must have with them to a minimum, and to keep as much distance between them and myself as possible. It is rather like hanging a sign on a fence that says “Beware of VERY bad dog.” Stay outside the fence, and everything is fine. But, come through the gate at your own risk. Leave me the hell alone and I will leave you alone.

Misogynists are not born, they are made.

I am still baffled at all the women who seem to expect men to live on a steady diet of hatred and man bashing, and somehow magically metabolize this toxic diet into “love” for women and a desire to see good things come to them. When I work real hard, I can make the anger cold and take no joy when bad things happen to women. I simply regard it with indifference. When I hear a woman whine about being victimized, I simply tune her out and go elsewhere.
When a woman smiles at me, I think of an old ethic bashing joke – “What does a ______ say instead of “fuck you?” Answer “Trust Me.”

I will not allow most women in my house unless I have known her a long time and she is old enough to have escaped being infected with the plague of man hating or is escorted by someone I trust, nor will I enter theirs except on the same conditions. If I pass a woman stranded on the road, I will not stop to help her because it is as likely as not that she will be afraid of me. That’s fine. She’s a fish without a bicycle – I have no place in her world, nor her in mine.

Man bashing and man hating harms women, because it makes men hate them back – eventually. A puppy returns love for love, but if you beat it will eventually turn mean and will one day turn on you when you raise your fist or your stick (or the club of words) to hit it. Men are no different. When women talk about treating men like dogs, I wish they would. It would be an improvement. Most women treat their dogs far better than they treat their men.

Somewhere along the line, I went through a metamorphosis. I changed from a man who loved women and thought they were just about the greatest thing in the world, to a man who can’t stand them, or anything about them.

I’m sick and tired of the lies that women tell about men, I’m sick and tired of their victim games, I’m sick and tired of hatred and bashing I have to put up with when I am around them. I am sick and tired of the arrogant contempt in which they seem to hold me and all other men. I am sick to death of the way that some of them feel the need to seek me out to piss me off. A couple of years back, at the funeral of my uncle, as fine a man as I have ever known, some woman felt the need to start a conversation with me as I sat with my private grief. She wanted me to agree with her that men don’t ask for directions.

How could anyone be so stupid and socially incompetent? When men came up to me to talk, it was always with something like “Your uncle was a fine man,” not, “aren’t men headstrong and stupid?”

Invariably, when I tell a woman about all this, she tries to argue with me and say something like “get over it,” or “why don’t you take the gender out of it?” In return I ask, “Why the hell don’t you women get over it, and take the gender out of it?”

I would like nothing better than to be left in peace, and allow women to enjoy the absence of my company which they find so annoying and unpleasant. Every day, a few more men got through the transformation and become like me. We don’t get our guns and shoot a few women; we don’t beat them up; because what women have been saying about us all these years is just flat wrong. But, there’s no point in trying to tell women that because they have become so certain of their superiority that the best way to deal with them is to leave them to it, and the company of their other fishy friends.

Videos of Argus Eyes reading this essay are available here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A87VbJUY6g and here – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH4poAZKeak

{ 190 comments… read them below or add one }

JDApostasy January 18, 2010 at 07:09

I remember the early days of the movement when it was called “Women’s Liberation” which was a high sounding and noble cause in a country which is founded on a document which cites liberty as one of 3 inalienable rights that every person has.

Thanks to some research I did for a philosophical conference, I can recognize this as part of the language ideology that women have been trying (and succeeding at!) imposing on us all. I submitted my paper for the Spearhead to post and am told it should be posted soon. Control the language, and you can more or less control the reality. I think there is more than enough evidence of this having gone on…

I was at a loss to understand any of her reaction. She couldn’t have been any more totally, completely, and absolutely wrong about my motivations and purposes. I instantly assigned her to the categories of “mentally defective,” “hate filled,” and female. Over the next several years, a lot of women joined her company.

And here are the effects of language ideologization. She identified with the “Women’s Lib” movement, accepted their terms for ordering reality, and her perspective adjusted accordingly. It just so happened that she understood men as vile and evil and to not trust or listen to anything they had to say – indeed, the language ideology she bought into made it impossible for you two to communicate. Even though it seemed you were speaking English, you were not, in fact, speaking the same “language.”

Language ideologies poison the mind in nefarious ways.

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JDApostasy January 18, 2010 at 07:19

A couple of years back, at the funeral of my uncle, as fine a man as I have ever known, some woman felt the need to start a conversation with me as I sat with my private grief. She wanted me to agree with her that men don’t ask for directions.

I can relate. I hate being pulled out of my private grief with a stupid and irrelevant question. Happens all the time, and I’ve noticed that 95% of the time it happens, it is a woman pulling me out of it.

Invariably, when I tell a woman about all this, she tries to argue with me and say something like “get over it,” or “why don’t you take the gender out of it?” In return I ask, “Why the hell don’t you women get over it, and take the gender out of it?”

Same thing. Even the women who agree with logical points about what feminism has done to society seem, invariably, to suggest that I should “get over it” or “stop worrying so much about it.” I used to wonder why this was the case, but I think it has to do with the poison of the language ideology that’s set in throughout our culture over the past forty years or so. I’m twenty-one. That means I’ve been immersed in it my entire life. I rejected it, but not always knowing why, and it took extreme measures to free myself completely of it. It is a difficult poison to fight. One quote I didn’t get to use for my paper is below:

“There are four immediately identifiable proponents of S[tandard] L[anguage] ideology…: the educational system, the news media, the entertainment industry, and what has been generally referred to as corporate America. At the end of the article, I argue for adding the judicial system to this list.”

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JDApostasy January 18, 2010 at 07:22

The quote above comes from the article “Accent, Standard Language Ideology, and Discriminatory Pretext in the Courts,” which can be accessed here.

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 07:23

Very good essay, zed. I read this (or some version of it) some time back, I’m sure, can’t remember where exactly.

As a whippersnapper, I have only ever known the negative side of women of which you speak.

I suppose this is why my generation are the PUA generation – growing up with women already like this. Simply figuring out ways to navigate harsh terrains; we didn’t have to go through the disorienting effects of ‘nice’ women turning ‘nasty’.

I get the feeling that the same thing will soon happen to women. As you say, hate bounces back. Misogyny is on the rise.

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 07:26

Same thing. Even the women who agree with logical points about what feminism has done to society seem, invariably, to suggest that I should “get over it” or “stop worrying so much about it.”

Or in other words, to “take it like a man”?

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JDApostasy January 18, 2010 at 07:32

Sucking it up and taking it like a man have their value in certain contexts. As a Marine, I think I have a good idea of when sucking it up is appropriate. Male/female relations is not an issue we should be “sucking it up” on. Either way, such ‘figures of speech’ are dangerous in their own right, and play a part in language ideologies.

I have plenty of quotes on language ideologies and so forth, but I don’t want to derail Zed’s essay (which was great by the way). I assembled so many quotes that I doubled the essay length limit (I was preparing it for another venue) in quotes alone.

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 07:37

It was like seeing clouds on the horizon, and knowing that it is time to get under cover because a storm is brewing. And, since it was obviously smearing shit in my face, it was going to be a shit storm.

This is the best line in the world, and I have even found myself incorporating variations of it in my own personal language.

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Black&German January 18, 2010 at 07:54

As a whippersnapper, I have only ever known the negative side of women of which you speak.

Perhaps that’s the difference between guys like my husband and you guys. Most of the women he knows are pretty nice and normal. There are a few bad eggs, but they aren’t in the majority, and the women around him are the first to voice disgust at their behavior. Perhaps being raised in a small, rural farming town, then studying at a tech school (with hardly any women), and dating women from his church has sheltered him from the worst feminist damage.

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Wulf January 18, 2010 at 08:14

In High School, a new year in the autumn of 1968, I reported to my home room and all the girls were wearing blue jeans – pants.

It was a shock from the dress code of the previous year. It was ugly.
The girls were also getting haughty. It all got worse as time went by.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 08:20

Perhaps being raised in a small, rural farming town, then studying at a tech school (with hardly any women), and dating women from his church has sheltered him from the worst feminist damage.

Plus, he obviously showed the good sense to pick better parents and a better place to be born than some of us did. (I expect most men will get this, and most women won’t.)

Paul January 18, 2010 at 08:27

Zed this is the best post I have read on The Spearhead for quite a long time. For me it encapsulates everything. There is no need for statistics or any other sort of argument as you cut to the heart of matter with a piercing sincerity.

Now that you have made your journey there can never be any going back. The innocence has been lost for ever. This loss can be pathetic and painful – better to have found happiness than bitter disillusionment. Men are truly alone.

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Dr. Paul January 18, 2010 at 08:32

On the money all the time, zed.

I also found it interesting when I worked in the counseling field to run across to many women who would just as casually say they had “issues” with men. It was ubiquitous code speak for hating our guts, only now reflecting that the hate was a product of psychotherapy.

They had been healed into hating.

And just like you, I started hating them back. Of course, not in the frothing, rabid sense of a feminist, but in the self protective way that I hate, say, criminals.

Didn’t know about the Arguseyes vids. Thanks for posting them.

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Heathen January 18, 2010 at 08:32

An excellent article.

Although I do not think that “mysoginist” is a word used much by or against the younger generation (or perhaps simply not in this country), they have other, similar words.

For me, that word was “aggressive”. Whenever I expressed a view that was not in line with the group, some woman (and it was always a woman) would tell me that I was being too aggressive.

At first, this charge used to hurt me, and I did much soul searching to try and figure out what I was doing wrong. In the end though, I realised that the word was just being used to silence me.

And now? After having been wrongly shamed too many times, I am exactly what they made me. Aggressive.

What ye sew, so shall ye reap.

-Heathen

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Agreed January 18, 2010 at 08:44

I am probably younger than most of you so I’ve only known dysfunctional womanhood in society at large.

I still think a fair amount of women are mostly guilty by complicity. As in, they do not approve of the misandry and see the destructive results in society from feminist ideology. But they still are happy to profit from it and stand with the misandrist group-think when they don’t want to accept responsibility for a personal failing.

If/when women get their “just desserts” in the years to come, they will also stamp their feet and demand the men “do something about it.” They will feign apology without acknowledging any personal guilt and will instead claim “not all women are/were like that.”

I assure you, the fear and loathing will come forth in bucketloads from women across this country when they realize that a huge amount of men would rather relate with “virtual sex partners” and “sex robots” than put up with their shit.

Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 5
Black&German January 18, 2010 at 08:51

Plus, he obviously showed the good sense to pick better parents and a better place to be born than some of us did.

Very ironic, ha ha. We all got pretty darn lucky with our parents and our place of birth. We could have been born in Rwanda right before the massacre. Let’s keep things in perspective here.

I wasn’t implying that he was an innately “better person”, but rather that you should understand that there are many men who won’t latch on to your hate for the simple fact that they have led a very different life and, essentially, live in a different world from you. Those men actually have trouble believing that those feminists really exist in any significant numbers, much less that they should mold their lives to avoid those women.

On the other hand, feminists are starting to affect us all, with their bizarre legislation, infiltration into the school system, and such. It seems like there’s nowhere to run from them anymore.

But I thought the newest Gallup poll is interesting. More Americans identify as conservatives than as liberals now. Perhaps the tide is finally turning.

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Reinholt January 18, 2010 at 09:10

B&G,

I think you miss the point. In majority terms, more men have been impacted by feminism than not. Or to put this very bluntly:

As time goes on, women (be they supporters of feminism or not) are going to be caught in the fallout, period. I know that among younger men women are increasingly regarded not as being on a pedestal, but rather as living in a cesspool. The desire for marriage is dropping, and the desire to be faithful in marriage or treat women with respect is dropping even faster.

In short, women will reap what has been sown, and even those who were “not like that” and “not part of the problem” (in either a fake or real sense) are going to be caught in the fallout.

Your husband is the exception, not the rule. Most conservative men I know (and I know many) neither trust nor respect women.

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3DShooter January 18, 2010 at 09:11

What women had better be prepared for, to borrow the phrase from Chalmers Johnson, is ‘Blowback’. You cannot treat a group of people, whether politically or ideologically, in the manner that feminism has visited on men without consequences. There will be a price to be paid at some point, it is not a matter of ‘if’ but ‘when’.

Regarding the comments above about controlling the language – those are spot on. Women like to use phrases like ‘bitter and angry’ because they refuse to look in the mirror. And, of course, my most hated the re-branding of indentured servitude (slavery) as child $upport.

Women have poured a lot of linguistic perfume on the feminist turd pile for a long time – it still smells like crap and it is about to explode in their faces.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 09:11

you should understand that there are many men who won’t latch on to your hate for the simple fact that they have led a very different life and, essentially, live in a different world from you.

All of us understand that and no one is trying to get anyone to “latch on to our ‘hate’.”

You just don’t get it, and Globalman is probably correct, you most likely never will get it.

None of us trying to convince men who have good experiences with women of anything. But the opposite is what we are dealing with – most of those men are trying to deny, refute, and make excuses for our experiences; keep us from talking about them; and when all else fails blame it on us. Most people simply will not accept that some men do have unbelievably bad experiences with women, and that such experiences are becoming very common.

I’m sure that if I had gone to Globalman 5 years ago and laid out what was happening, he would not have believed it then, either. He would have argued with me, attacked me, and denounced me for saying such awful things.

Family court can and will convince men of things that I will never be able to.

I have come through the whole mess remarkably unscathed compared to most men I know. Once they are caught in the family court system, men have to resort to extraordinary measures to deal with it. Staying out of its reach is actually far easier.

On the other hand, feminists are starting to affect us all, with their bizarre legislation, infiltration into the school system, and such. It seems like there’s nowhere to run from them anymore.

And there is my point. Men have been able to run from what the feminists have been doing for a long time. Women have been able to sit by and do nothing except join in the “good natured man-hating” and count on still getting an opportunity to get a future ex-husband. All the years during which something could have been done to stop them have been wasted because people could not, or would not, believe what was being done.

Feminism is now women’s problem. Some of us have no need to run because we have learned how to live in the jungle as it is.

If other people don’t like how we do it, tough. We’ll see them on the other side of the meat grinder of family court when they are talking about the differences between “laws” and “statutes” and trying to rebuild their shattered lives.

r January 18, 2010 at 09:13

Agreed said:

“I assure you, the fear and loathing will come forth in bucketloads from women across this country when they realize that a huge amount of men would rather relate with “virtual sex partners” and “sex robots” than put up with their shit.”

So true. Why risk harm for someone/a group that hates you simply because of your gender? We men have no obligation to assist those who hate us. Quaint outdated ideals of ‘chivalry’ are worthless when dealing with such creatures.

Black and German: Regarding the men who have not experienced what so many of us have from feminists, well, good for them. Ignorance is and always will be bliss. May such men reap the harvest they sometimes inadvertently enable through their experience-fueled indifference. That doesn’t make these men bad people. It only makes them clueless as to what is really happening between the genders.

Perhaps they will learn such lesson in Family Court. God help them if they have to go to one in the USA.

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Sociopathic Revelation January 18, 2010 at 09:39

As time goes on, women (be they supporters of feminism or not) are going to be caught in the fallout, period. I know that among younger men women are increasingly regarded not as being on a pedestal, but rather as living in a cesspool. The desire for marriage is dropping, and the desire to be faithful in marriage or treat women with respect is dropping even faster.

In short, women will reap what has been sown, and even those who were “not like that” and “not part of the problem” (in either a fake or real sense) are going to be caught in the fallout.

—Reinholt

Exactly. I honestly think those who believe they are “not like that” are still pretty arrogant enough to believe they are not going to be broadsided by all of this. Throughout my entire life, I’ve pretty much had enough of everything women in America have displayed while working men continue to struggle, and I’m done with the hairsplitting.

I was the romantic type as a youth—I can no longer imagine getting married with the current climate, much less having children even though it wasn’t a major priority. I WANTED a good woman for life. Now what? Especially considering when women my age are so used up and ingrained with wanton resentment and selfishness I don’t want to engage any more?

Even the “oppressed” feminist minded women have rode the good ride for too long and have no idea what is going to happen when decent men are too burnt out and used up to rescue from a real backlash, not a false one like Susan Faludi imagined in her ivory tower head. “Independent” feminists still expect men to work for them via proxy. They have no clue what real sanctioned, societal misogyny truly means—only the soundbites of abuse and DV they clamor about while most men don’t emulate their bogeymen.

Personally, why would I scoop up someone who would rather vampirize, exhort, or manipulate me during “better” times when the shit hits the fan for skanks for real? Aren’t these Virginias supposed to be strong and independent for themselves and regard me with oh-too-cool-contempt instead?

You can only deal with so much venom and hate, until you remove yourself from the equation and let the hate-filled ones drown themselves in it.

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Krauser January 18, 2010 at 09:50

Men can’t go their own way because feminists won’t let them. They will continue to hound you with taxation and false rape allegations. They will continue to defund your medical care while extending their own.

I am now a fully fledged misogynist. I take it as a compliment. But it’s kinda reactive. I used to love women and I wish I still could. I’m still looking for some way to square the circle, and if I find it I’ll emerge from misogyny, but the feminists are really making it difficult.

Right now I have become close to amoral in my dealings with women. I will take what I want from them but do not actively hurt them. I also don’t give a flying fuck what they say so I actively challenge every piece of misandric comment I hear in public. Just yesterday I was taking issue with a joke Tiger Woods mail the office secretary sent me.

I also feel a sense of solidarity and respect for beta males that I never really had before. I find myself opening doors for them (when situationally appropriate) while I’ll let the same door slam on a woman.

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David Brandt January 18, 2010 at 09:53

Excellent article Zed. I suspect we’re pretty close to the same age, and I saw it as well. If I’m walking out the door of a store and there is a guy behind me, I’ll grab it out of simple courtesy. I will never do that for a woman–and I was not raised to be that way either, it came from experience. The analogy with dogs is excellent (and I have a number of canine friends)–it is nearly a pavlovian response with the ironic observation that most women in the anglosphere do treat dogs better then men in general. The notable exception I’ve observed is that if the man happens to be very attractive and/or appears to have money, the gina tingle or money jingle temporarily overrides the more overt hatred. On the other hand, I have mentioned before that some women go batshit crazy if they’re dumped (I had one banging on my doors and windows in the middle of the night), and will do all manner of things (scorned?) to damage a man. I have a son with autism as I’ve mentioned, and a case manager who became enamored with me upon a very polite and decent rejection (keeping it on a professional level) attempted to caused me all sorts of problems until I managed to expose what she was doing with my daughter as a witness. I have also brought up some of the problems my son has had, even after I’ve explained that he was autistic. This is why I have decided to expat. I happen to agree with John Nada, as I am familiar with the cultural differences in countries that have not been infected with this. Between the expats, game and avoidance, I hope to live long enough to see feminism and ‘silent feminism’ implode.

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 10:08

I am now a fully fledged misogynist. I take it as a compliment. But it’s kinda reactive. — Krauser

Nothing deflates feminist rhetoric faster than a man who owns it.

“You’re just a misogynist,” accused weeping Wendy.

“You’re damn right I am,” replied pissed off Peter, “and furthermore…”

Next!

What should be most telling for women who have been around for the past forty years, is how this is becoming less and less effective as a shaming tactic to deflect from how their own bad behaviour adversely affects those around them.

You know, I was reading a comment somewhere a few weeks ago from a mother who was talking about how her own son had been falsely accused of one of the various Lesser Rapes, don’t remember which one, and she said that while she saw the obvious injustice her son endured, she felt conflicted because fighting for justice for her son would also mean fighting for injustice for her daughter.

I should have saved that. Damn.

I remember another man once who remarked on a forum about how it was going to be when his mother became elderly, and he said that “since daycare was good enough for me when I was a child, the old age home will be good enough for her when she is elderly.”

If I was the son of that woman who was “conflicted” about standing up for her son, I wouldn’t slow down the car as I dropped her off, either.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 10:14

I am now a fully fledged misogynist. I take it as a compliment. But it’s kinda reactive. — Krauser

Nothing deflates feminist rhetoric faster than a man who owns it.

“You’re just a misogynist,” accused weeping Wendy.

“You’re damn right I am,” replied pissed off Peter, “and furthermore…”

Next!

What makes that whole mind game so evil is that it only works when it isn’t true.

For years, men who truly did still like women twisted themselves into knots trying to prove to his “accuser” that it wasn’t true. That is one of those differences between men and women that men seem to have to learn the hard way.

If a man accuses you of something, it is because he believes it to be true. But, women often use accusations in an instrumental manner because trying to disprove the accusation will manipulate the man into exactly the kind of behavior she wants from him.

It’s a weapon whose edge has been blunted from overuse, and women are about to have their Wiley E. Coyote moment (hat tip, TFH) as they discover that.

If I was the son of that woman who was “conflicted” about standing up for her son, I wouldn’t slow down the car as I dropped her off, either.

What goes around, comes around.

Black&German January 18, 2010 at 10:30

We actually have a bit of a weird dynamic in my house, were it’s me trying to convince him that feminists are causing so much damage.

But I guess I just have a problem with the whole idea of hate (a debilitating emotion), as opposed to righteous anger (a call to action). As a black woman I’ve seen a lot of hate, including black people who hate white people and are quick to blame them for everything that’s wrong in the world. Or Germans who scream about dirty foreigners. People (white, black, foreigners, women) will generally follow their own interests and the incentives society lays out for them. Even “good and decent” women are following incentives: the benefits to themselves and their offspring in this or the next life.

So the goal should be to change the incentives.

Personally, why would I scoop up someone who would rather vampirize, exhort, or manipulate me during “better” times when the shit hits the fan for skanks for real?

Interesting that you should mention vampires. Women today (including myself) love to read vampire stories because they’re dangerous and scary. I’ve been thinking about the whole “false rape” situation and other men-demonizations, from a female perspective.

It seems that women are suffering under the general prosperity and safety overload that we have in our society. Our society is so safe (especially for women) that people jump off buildings with parachutes, drink themselves into a coma, have sex with strangers, and such, just to get a bit of a thrill. It’s so safe that it’s having a negative influence on our psychological health. People need a bit of danger just to stay sane. Remember how everyone seemed to calm down and act normal for a while after 9/11? If they don’t have enough, they’ll eventually go completely bonkers, as we can see all around us. Instead of dealing with really, truly dangerous things, these women launch campaigns against pseudo-threats. Those are the only threats left.

There is a slow return to sanity going on right now, because the real-life threat of the end to government largess is looming over us. So, maybe things will improve on all fronts.

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Black&German January 18, 2010 at 10:40

she felt conflicted because fighting for justice for her son would also mean fighting for injustice for her daughter.

Just wanted to point out that she wasn’t thinking logically (in addition to choosing sides amongst her own children). Allowing false accusations to stand hurts both her son and her daughter. If her daughter were to ever be really raped, she’d have to stand in line behind all of the false-accusers. And what if her son was raped?

If we allow the term “rape” to be used for everything, it will lose it’s effect. Certain terms should be reserved for the most egregious circumstances, so that their effect isn’t blunted.

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Agreed January 18, 2010 at 10:50

@Black&German:
“Women today (including myself) love to read vampire stories because they’re dangerous and scary.”

Very true. Women have used misandry to create more hateful men to lust after.
And in the occasion the man’s hate turns into violence, that serves useful political purposes.

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21Guns January 18, 2010 at 11:11

Instead of dealing with really, truly dangerous things, these women launch campaigns against pseudo-threats. Those are the only threats left.

I have a simpler, if more cynical, explanation: Victims have become so glorified that everybody wants to be one.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 11:14

But I guess I just have a problem with the whole idea of hate (a debilitating emotion), as opposed to righteous anger (a call to action).

Don’t get hung up on the words, B&G. Men have started to use the word “misogynist” as a joke because for a lot longer than you have been alive women have been calling any man who wasn’t giving them everything they wanted and French kissing their rectums “misogynists.”

What it really translates to is a man who has lost all caring and concern for what women think of him.

The whole “call to action” idea is appealing, but just didn’t work because of the cultural denial and the tired old “BNAWALT” canard. If I noticed that someone’s house had a fire starting in the kitchen, and out of neighborliness knocked on the door and said “Your house is on fire” I would not expect to have to get in an argument over “But, NOT ALL the rooms are on fire!!!”

People who are in denial are the ones who end up paying the greatest price. Globalman and I are actually working together here – taking different approaches based on the fact that we took different routes to end up different places.

I saw the signs of the shit storm brewing and took cover. Thus I have made it through life so far without paying one cent to the divorce system, never having been arrested for a false accusation, sitting in a house that is almost paid for, with a tidy retirement, working about 35 hours per week with lots of free time during which I have peace and quiet because I never have to listen to any nagging unless I spend time with one of my married friends. Life is good!

Globalman didn’t see the shit storm coming, played by all the rules, and got royally fucked for it. Now he is busy “banging” hot chicks he has no intention of marrying, making statements that “all women are worthless”, and engaging in some very abstruse legal gyrations over whether family courts have actual jurisdiction to punish him for crimes that I never committed.

I make no such global statements about women, stand here as simply a human being describing my experiences in fairly neutral and objective terms, and point out the reactions that I get from that approach versus the reactions he gets from his.

I treat women with concern and regard for their future comfort and safety, by trying to warn them of some very dangerous situations which are developing as a result of their behaviors.

Lurkers watch this interaction, watch you indulge your compulsion to nag men and come in her wagging your finger at men more than twice your age – many older than your own father – and “instruct” them on the errors in their thinking, and draw their own conclusions about what future strategy is going to be most effective for them.

I’m sure by this point that you have read Hestia’s story about being falsely accused of child abuse by a vindictive woman. Tell her that “BNAWALT!” And, if your husband ever has something happen to him like happened to this falsely accused dad http://www.falselyaccuseddad.com/ and comes some place like this and says “How could this happen?!?! Why didn’t someone warn me?!?!?!” – well, expect us to just laugh at him.

Dr. Paul January 18, 2010 at 11:22

LOL! What a great opportunity to leech off of zed’s post and invite people to subscribe to my YouTube channel

The Happy Misogynist

It was actually the name of my website before I changed it to A Voice for Men.

And as I read many years ago in some forum of the past, “A misogynist is a man who thinks women are intelligent, reasonable human beings and expects them to act that way.”

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null January 18, 2010 at 11:24

Krauser “I also feel a sense of solidarity and respect for beta males that I never really had before. I find myself opening doors for them (when situationally appropriate) while I’ll let the same door slam on a woman.”

I just love this PUA philosophy of arbitrarily dividing men into “alphas” and “betas” with alphas being totally awesome in every way and betas being disgusting subhuman scum, or at best harmlessly pitiful. What is an alpha? A PUA. And what is a beta? someone who isn’t a PUA. The Misandry Bubble article, which received a standing ovation from everyone, repeatedly told the vast majority of men to fuck off and die for not being PUAs. Such sentiments are commonplace, most often on roissy’s site (one commenter cranked up the absurdity by proclaiming that betas produce nothing and contribute nothing and are completely useless in every possible way). The funny part is that PUAs are pathetic, vain and limp-wristed girly-men who know as much about manhood as the average feminist, possibly even less. And they still think they’re in a position to pass down judgement on other men. Legends in their own minds.

What difference is there between feminists and PUAs? They both hate my guts or treat me in a condescending manner because I’m not part of them, and they have various other similarities as well. To hell with both of them.

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Abject Man January 18, 2010 at 11:42

Zed, dude, you’ve practically transcribed the sentiments of millions of men around the world with this article. Really. Thanks, man.

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Black&German January 18, 2010 at 11:47

I have a simpler, if more cynical, explanation: Victims have become so glorified that everybody wants to be one.

Or that. Yeah, that could be true, as well.

@ Zed,

You have to admit that your generation permanently killed the “age brings wisdom” idea. I only follow that if it refers to certain people who lived quite a while ago, like Jesus or St. Francis. The present older generation is generally pretty depraved, present company not withstanding.

They’ve been a constant disappointment to me. Bring up abortion and they yap about “choice”. Decry easy divorce and they wring their hands over people needing “independence”. Bring up misandry and even the men will jabber on about the patriarchy. Bring up homeschooling and we’re corrupting our children and letting down our ancestors for not placing them in public school. And don’t even dare criticize the sainted single mothers.

You know I’ve had my fair share of run-ins with crazy women, so I’m not exactly oblivious to the problem. Perhaps what we’re looking at is the separation of strategy, like MLK with the Black Panthers (for a timely example). Arguably, the violent Panthers did more to alert people to the situation and its urgency, while the peaceful freedom fighters gave the average Joe a respectable group to align themselves with. Maybe we need both, although it looks like feminism is self-destructing on its own already.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 12:04

You have to admit that your generation permanently killed the “age brings wisdom” idea.

Actually, no I don’t, because it isn’t true. I was still in HS when “Wild in the Streets” came out with the idea of giving the vote to 12 year olds and putting everyone over 30 in concentration camps. The people who really killed it were of Kinsey’s generation – who fed a bunch of nonsense to a bunch of stupid kids. They, too, were our “elders.” I covered the issue at length in this post – http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/22/the-baby-bomb-how-the-boomers-were-used-to-demolish-a-culture/

If there was one thing I learned from the mistake that my parents generation made, it was to not bother to listen to children trying to instruct people with far more experience than they have on the proper art of sucking eggs.

Perhaps what we’re looking at is the separation of strategy, like MLK with the Black Panthers (for a timely example). Arguably, the violent Panthers did more to alert people to the situation and its urgency, while the peaceful freedom fighters gave the average Joe a respectable group to align themselves with. Maybe we need both, although it looks like feminism is self-destructing on its own already.

For a long time I have referred to myself as the Colonel Kurtz of the gender war. I admire Dr. King, but I think the Panthers accomplished far more and that his approach alone would not have gotten the same results.

It’s true that feminism is beginning to implode on itself, but the damage is still done. Women may still get all the seats in the lifeboats, but the men on the deck are smashing the furniture and tearing up the decking planks to make life rafts of their own on which women will not be welcome.

Millions of women are about to get stranded in the “Women’s Nation” with nary a man in sight to help them out. How fortunate for them that they need men like fish need bicycles.

GrimmNoir January 18, 2010 at 12:08

@ null

I don’t subscribe to those titles either….

At least not in the “mainstream” (mainstream=MRA/MGTOW community) way….

I believe that all of us as men have traits of Alpha, Beta, and Omega inside of us. We just need to learn how and when to utilize them.

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Heathen January 18, 2010 at 12:31

I believe that all of us as men have traits of Alpha, Beta, and Omega inside of us. We just need to learn how and when to utilize them.

Yes, and no.

Some men are cowards, and some are heros. Some people are both by turns. Take any attribute and you will find men at both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. It can, within a narrow field (like PUA, or the military), be useful to categorize men based on a specific subset of strengths and weaknesses (be it strength, charisma, willingness to kill, etc). Those categories may well be valid within those narrow fields, but I would certainly agree with you that their usefulness ends outside those fields. The best PUA is unlikely to be the best soldier or father (though the skills are not mutually exclusive).

On the other hand, let’s not pretend all men are equal. While we can argue all day about “better” and “worse”, we cannot deny “more”. Some men have more strength than others. Some more intelligence. And so it goes. That’s life. And in that sense, I disagree with your above comment.

-Heathen

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Novaseeker January 18, 2010 at 12:37

It was the “greatest generation” that brought this mess upon everyone’s heads, really. It wasn’t the people who were in their teens and 20s in the 70s, it was the people who were 40-70 at that time –> they facilitated all of the changes and used the youthful enthusiasm of the young to power their social revolution.

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Toby January 18, 2010 at 12:39

Women are like Pandora’s box: When they’re cooped up in a neat little box they are harmless and even charming. When you open the box lid you unleash hell on Earth. Women’s Lib was the opening of Pandora’s Box and it’s toxic smoke is slowly waning. Someone just needs to close the box again and it’s getting easier and easier to do that as time goes on and men reach the precipice of what they are willing to tolerate from women.

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iron clad January 18, 2010 at 12:41

Feminist = …a Rose…that farts…

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 12:42

It was the “greatest generation” that brought this mess upon everyone’s heads, really. It wasn’t the people who were in their teens and 20s in the 70s, it was the people who were 40-70 at that time –> they facilitated all of the changes and used the youthful enthusiasm of the young to power their social revolution. — Novaseeker

But, they could blame it on their previous generation… the ones who created full universal democracy, and allowed the excesses of the roaring twenties to cause the Depression, which led the way for people like FDR (along with guys like Hitler) to usher in Socialism, and alter the nature of government and society.

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Krauser January 18, 2010 at 12:47

Lol at null. That’s some serious projection there.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 12:56

But, they could blame it on their previous generation… the ones who created full universal democracy, and allowed the excesses of the roaring twenties to cause the Depression, which led the way for people like FDR (along with guys like Hitler) to usher in Socialism, and alter the nature of government and society.

And, they in turn could blame it on the previous generation, and so on, and so on.

What’s the name of that song with the line – “Every generation wants to blame the one before” – “In the living years”?

The human race will actually start to progress when enough people get tired of blaming and start solving. We can study the past in order to learn what mistakes they made, but we are idiots if all we do is blame past generations and keep repeating the same mistakes.

What it will take is people to stop blaming and start saying “It stops here, it stops now.”

zed – the end

iron clad January 18, 2010 at 13:15

wonder if there are any MRA who are sitting judges on the bench ? If not, maybe funding a scholarship may be a good start for us to think about before too much time passes and we as men find ourselves excommunicated from the bench as well as law, as it now stands.

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Dr. Paul January 18, 2010 at 13:24

@ Novaseeker

It was the “greatest generation” that brought this mess upon everyone’s heads, really. It wasn’t the people who were in their teens and 20s in the 70s, it was the people who were 40-70 at that time –> they facilitated all of the changes and used the youthful enthusiasm of the young to power their social revolution.

Every word of this is true, but it deserves a caveat, IMO.

Those men 40-70 at the time were just the ones that happened to be there when gender feminism happened. I don’t think it can be argued that the men of other generations would have done much different. So pointing to “that or this generation” doesn’t point at the underlying problem that traditional masculinity cannot defend itself from attacks by women.

I was just watching an old three stooges video, circa 1935. It was a short called the “woman haters club.” The three of them joined the club and proved they would only sniff after pussy when not pulled in line by their peers.

Just like most guys of this generation who are still under attack.

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Gilbert January 18, 2010 at 13:28

I didn’t realize that men were as passive towards shrieking harpies in the late ’70s as they are now. I thought men were tougher and had more backbone in the past. I was wrong.

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null January 18, 2010 at 13:28

“Lol at null. That’s some serious projection there.”

I’m not sure if you know what that word means.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 13:39

pointing to “that or this generation” doesn’t point at the underlying problem that traditional masculinity cannot defend itself from attacks by women.

That is because “traditional” masculinity was created by women! The only argument between feminists and traditional women is over the best kind of man to create to serve women and their interests.

Traditional women, like Phyllis Schaffly, at least understood that women were getting the better part of the deal and that men needed some encouragement and rewards to keep sacrificing themselves. But, feminist women believe that they are simply entitled to everything men do for them, and that no matter how much abuse they heap on men for doing it that men will just keep on sitting around with prozac grins on their faces putting up with it.

Feminism really did “liberate” men far more than it ever did women. Women are not only trapped in the workforce these days, men have been actively pushed out so very few women of the next few generations will be able to find a man to support them in in being SAHMs, even if that is what they want.

Feminism was never about giving women choices, but instead about taking them away.

Now, it’s men who have more choices.

slwerner January 18, 2010 at 13:48

null –
“What difference is there between feminists and PUAs? They both hate my guts…”

Sorry, chump,

Nobody in either camp cares enough about you to even bother to hate you. Weird how you would imagine yourself some sort of “focal point”.

Listen, if only we really could get people to come together over their dislike of people like you, world peace would be within our grasp.

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Retribution January 18, 2010 at 13:50

Hey, null, if those clowns are so good at picking up women, why do they spend so much time online?

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 13:53

To learn from the greats, fool.

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iron clad January 18, 2010 at 13:59

Traditional masculentitys main focus and central point was the caring for, and physical protectiveness of others, thru sacrofice and hard labor…

Feminism is by nature…a deliberate attack lon males and a blattant disregaurd for anything male, or their well being…

One seeks wholesomeness for all of humanity and or equality , (males )….and feminist , on the other hand ,seek division and distuctiveness…

Men seek out ways to help others.

While feminist seek ways to destroy males and their positions…

So a feminist has no natural predators lurking….unlike traditional masculintity does.

Feminist seek to kill the helpers and inventors in humanity (males) for the sake of the human birthers (females) of society.in turn, they seek to turn us against ourselves while they and turn coat alfa-chilvarist make a mad dash for power and control thru the legal systems…cheating and competition rolled in one at the same time…Quite an enemy at hand …

So traditional masculinity has little or no place in any modern males behavor code, if we are to succeed in our reestablishment as equals or yet better.

You cannot help your enemy, help …kill you….wwwwell…I take that back…unless you live thru your penis and heart…and forget about your biggest sex organ…your brain !

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GrimmNoir January 18, 2010 at 14:02

@ Heathen

You obviously misinterpreted what I said….

You’re right, not all men are equal. But that’s not the point I was trying to make.

Like I said before….

We all have these traits inside us. It’s just that some us might utilize certain traits better than others. Nothing more, nothing less.

So you can relax, bruh. You’re still on top of the food chain. ;)

And as far as I’m concerned, you can stay there…..

I’m not trying to be King of the World, I’m just trying to find my place in it.

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Retribution January 18, 2010 at 14:02

Looks more like a circle jerk to me, snark.

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 14:05

Does that make you mad, Retribution?

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Hestia January 18, 2010 at 14:36

This was a good article the first time I read it and continues to be enlightening whenever I’ve read your words again, Zed. As they say, you reap what you sow as soon the rotten fruits of feminism will be harvested, and the harvest has only just begun.

I understand why men do not get involved with women any longer and do not believe bachelors deserve any shame for their choices. Men shouldn’t be bullied by anybody, especially women, into looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack if they do not wish to. But women deserve all of this and more for what they have become and what they are continuing to put men through. In the future I fear the backlash about women may not be the only issue to be faced, but young men who turn the violence against themselves and commit suicide. Or they might so desperately want to belong in a “family” where they are accepted as men they join gangs at worst…or enlist in the military without proper consideration of the dangers at best.

There are men who don’t understand what is going on, why there is an organized movement of hatred against them for the “crime” of being male. They cannot put all of their observations into words or coherent thoughts to see the full picture, and may think they are the problem. Websites like the Spearhead, Mens News Daily, and the numerous MRA blogs can do this for these men, so long as they come across the MRM movement, and might provide an outlet for young men especially to make sense of the world around them. Far from being harmful sites full of “dangerous misogyny”, the works of many MRAs may save the lives of young men, sometimes in the sense they provide true information about the nature of women and hypergamy, and sometimes literally when they may help a man connect with other men and realize there do exist people who care about him and don’t hate him simply because he has a y chromosome.

This weekend as we had two little boys in our care and our daughter playing alongside them, I looked at these little ones and couldn’t help but feel fear for their future, for very different reasons depending on their sex. They are so innocent and loving, playing together and cooperating with no regard for their sex, just having fun. Soon the world will get to them and attempt to poison their sweet little minds, telling the boys they are worthless and telling Peapod she is a princess, when neither is the truth. What a world we in and what a disaster this next generation will be inheriting. Such a shame.

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Retribution January 18, 2010 at 15:09

You really shouldn’t post while you’re drinking, snark.

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 15:19

Ouch! I can feel that burn coming off my monitor.

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Pakars January 18, 2010 at 16:30

I’m a 19 year old guy living in America right now, and I’m one of the very few that came to the same conclusions that MRAs and MGTOW have on my own(And found these movements afterwards)– That it’s a losing proposition to attempt to find a loving relationship in today’s social climate, not to mention the dangers of today’s legislature and courts.

I came to these conclusions because I’m a rather logical person, and because for the last eight years of my life, I’ve heard nothing but put-downs, insults, and false implications about men(and thus myself). Nearly every woman in my life under the age of thirty acted, at least in part, with contempt towards me, as if I was less-than-human, and as if they somehow deserve everything from me, just because I’m male and they’re female. I once bought into the lie that feminism is about “equality”, but I have long since turned against that because there’s no reciprocation towards men in this so-called “equality”. I’ve even been called a misogynist by people my own age for not buying women I hardly even know something they can’t afford themselves.

Because of this, I’ve taken myself out of the game, except for casual encounters for my benefit. I’m not going to waste my time and money(3x or more than my own costs) on people who have proven they’re not worth it, and just want what you have without repaying you in any way for it.

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The Fifth Horseman January 18, 2010 at 16:33

That is exactly why misandry is a bubble, the costs of which will soon transfer onto women.

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 16:35

That is because “traditional” masculinity was created by women!

This kind of stuff has been gurgling beneath the surface all throughout History. There may indeed be a period soon where men get so fed up with the unruly nature of women they our better 3/4′s will get their come-uppins… but, as time it will disappear again that women’s nature had anything to do with it – because women will demand it be so.

Women “are” society. They control what society wants or doesn’t want. What women desire, society desires. What women reject, society rejects. This is the natural way of humans where, just like with every other living that sexually reproduces, the male is the sexual servant of the female. The male displays, the female chooses.

And, after women get their come-uppins, which they will, humantiy certainly will remember… but only for a while, and then the nature of the female controlling society’s values will again brush it under the rug – in their own “feminine way.” Kinda like the following quote:

When I have one foot in the grave, I will tell the whole truth about women. I shall tell it, jump into my coffin, pull the lid over me and say, “Do what you like now.” —Leo Tolstoy

Things have never really changed. This is always gurgling beneath with females, including their ability to bat their eyelashes and have legions of White Knights saddle up to do their bidding.

The reason why this is not talked about historically, I believe, is because women have never allowed it. What information you can find about women is often passed along by legends and myths and other types of stories.

The archetype of the evil stepmom, the Sirens, the Gorgons, Helen of Troy, witches, Adam and Eve, Sampson and Delilah. It’s the only way that humans can try to bring forth the underlying nature of women with the shrieking that begins.

Pandorra’s Box anyone? This kind of thing has happened before.

If humans were animals, this, what we have today, is how we would be.

But we are not animals. We can choose. And, if you look at “The Universal Moral Code,” which is basically the Ten Commandments (and is found in many more religions and places than just the Bible), you will see that what they do is tell us not to live as animals.

“Only one God/Do not put other truths before me.” – Do not live by the Relative Truth – Follow Absolute Truths. Animals are strictly pragmatic. Humans are not – well, they don’t have to be.

“Do not kill” – Animals kill all the time, and they are not sinning, because they have no choice.

“Do not steal” – Animals steal all the time… but, since we choose not to, we can manage to do long term projects, like grow a field of corn. If we lived by survival of the fittest as animals do, you could spend a season growing and harvesting corn, and I would just show up in the end with my gun and steal it from you. I eat and live, you starve and die. Survival of the fittest. Who the hell would bother to grow corn.

“Don’t commit adultury” – Animals do this all the time.

“Honor your parents” – It is unnatural for offspring to care for their parents – that goes against the natural hierarchy. However, by going against this natural instinct, humans have managed to consistently increase their life span.

And on and on and on.

We are not supposed to live like animals, because we can choose not to.

And so it is with the natural way of the females controlling society. Although we are of the Animal Kingdom, because we are humans, we can choose to live differently than animals in this regard as well.

We can turn the “natural hierarchy” around, just like with children honouring their parents. That is also turning the natural hierarchy around. And it creates something better for all involved.

I don’t think I really need to point out the benefits to anyone.

I sometimes wonder if what the whole “point” is, is we have to keep refining what it is to be human, and the more we do, the better we get. The better we get, the less animal we become… and the better things that will appear for us. And, perhaps if we can just one friggin’ time figure it all out before destroying ourselves, the “answer” or “why” will become permanently clear… lol! Who knows, maybe that Utopia that everyone keeps talking about will appear if that happens.

But this, the crap that is starting to unravel in our society… this is us as humans – and it ain’t pretty.

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 16:40

“this is us as human animals – and it ain’t pretty.”

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Welmer January 18, 2010 at 16:48

I once bought into the lie that feminism is about “equality”, but I have long since turned against that because there’s no reciprocation towards men in this so-called “equality”.

-Pakars

Stick around and learn even more from the old-timers, Pakars — you will find yourself head and shoulders above your peers when it comes time to make life choices.

It’s our altruistic nature that drives us to save young guys like you from a grim fate.

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 16:50

Pakars,

That’s pretty much the revelation I had at 19.

Just think, you could grow up to be just like me.

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@Pakars January 18, 2010 at 17:03

Welcome, Pakars. I wised up about women when I was 24, fortunately before any woman had done damage to me financially or otherwise. Pass this website on to your friends, too. Even if they’re not thinking about this stuff, it’s entertaining and the lessons might sink in.

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Jeff January 18, 2010 at 17:18

I wised up about broads at around the age of 8, I vowed then that I would never love a woman or treat a woman with any courtesy or respect again after a bad relationship experience and since then, I never have.

Of course, with that mindset, it’s been easy as hell to get laid after that (as everyone here well knows) and being in such close proximity to women constantly reinforces my decision.

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Pakars January 18, 2010 at 17:21

Thank you for the welcome, guys. I was thinking about it when I was 15 or so, in high school, and came to that conclusion almost two years ago near the end of high school when a girl attempted to use me and toss me away. Thankfully, I kept my wits about me and came out relatively unharmed(Also, she wasn’t exactly subtle about trying to wring money out of me for superfluous things she had no right asking for). I say ‘relatively’ only because I don’t think I’ll ever be able to trust a woman enough to pursue a relationship for quite some time.

Because of my decision to leave the dating game alone until after feminism finally implodes onto itself(And it will, I assure you. There is no way the current social climate can continue to survive. The blatant misandry I’ve seen in high school/college today is far, far worse than those of yesteryear, by every account I’ve seen, and my own experiences, and it promises to get worse), my future is looking quite bright. My costs of living are very low, and after college, I’m going into a field that pays quite well, at a time where there will likely be economic recovery from the current depression.

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Snark January 18, 2010 at 17:21

You gave up on women after a bad relationship experience at age 8? Holy shit, Jeff. You’re an apex alpha.

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Welmer January 18, 2010 at 17:28

@Snark

We have some young heroes coming of age now. It should make us all hopeful.

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piercedhead January 18, 2010 at 17:31

I don’t think misogyny is really the right word for me. I reserve hatred for a special few individuals, and it is a bit of a luxury. I also can’t help but notice it also has a short half-life.

I view women in the same way as I see Great White Pointers, hyenas and vultures. They are all as they are by nature, and to hate them for being what they are is to hate Nature itself. The best I can do to avoid natural predators is to stay out of their way, and a few close encounters have taught me a thing or two about how to do just that. I guess if a shark had taken my leg off, I might take it more personal and go all Captain Ahab – but until then, I guess I have the luck to remain less passionate.

At bottom though, I’m probably worse than a misogynist as far as women’s interests go. I don’t believe they are reformable or admissible into the company of men involved in serious enterprise, and I can’t take a single one of them seriously as an authority figure. Tyrant – yes. Leader of men, no.

The irony though is that of themselves they aren’t much of a threat. It’s their power to throw us into the company of truly dangerous men that make women so formidable.

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Hawaiian Libertarian January 18, 2010 at 17:36

Women “are” society. They control what society wants or doesn’t want. What women desire, society desires. What women reject, society rejects. This is the natural way of humans where, just like with every other living that sexually reproduces, the male is the sexual servant of the female. The male displays, the female chooses.

This is true – and I must also point out that our current society is one in which the women both consciously and subconsciously implanted with suggestions, thought patterns and behavioral examples of our mass media culture. All of this ugliness, the misandry, the bitterness, ugliness, selfishness, lack of class and no sense of shame are all deliberate manifestations inculcated by the social engineers that control the mainstream media and the educational establishment.

In simpler terms, when a man hears or see a woman or women engaging in these nasty behaviors, look no further than the examples they are simply following – their role models in their TV shows, their movie stars they idolize and worship, and their magazines that endlessly repeat the mantras, memes and shibboleths that have instilled this ugly hatred that manifests in so many Western Women.

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The Fifth Horseman January 18, 2010 at 17:42

Remember that holding a woman accountable for her own actions is ‘misogyny’.

Being attracted to a hotter woman and not to an older/fatter woman is also ‘misogyny’.

I keep pointing to this low-traffic blog as the single most total example of projection I have ever seen :
http://winecatsandfeminism.wordpress.com/

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Jeff January 18, 2010 at 17:46

“You gave up on women after a bad relationship experience at age 8? ”

Yep. Bitch went psycho on me for “trying to put the moves on her”, as she called it. She claimed that I grabbed her ass when I was trying to help her into a tree, then called me a liar when I said that I did no such thing and pulled one of those pouty sulking maneuvers that women are so fond of, so I broke it off with her and starting nailing the older slut who lived down the street. I did grab HER ass, though, a lot.

I didn’t know it at the time, but my girlfriend was probably pissed off that I DIDN’T grab her ass, and that’s why she was acting like a cunt.

It took me a while to figure out that broads are ALL crazy, but that experience left me with an open mind about the possibility.

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The Fifth Horseman January 18, 2010 at 17:48

“You gave up on women after a bad relationship experience at age 8?

That would be like Charlie Brown (also age 8) passing all the tests from Lucy and others.

Actually, younger kids have it right. It is in the HS/college years that Betatude is taught to them, and their mother starts misguiding them.

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Jeff January 18, 2010 at 17:54

“It is in the HS/college years that Betatude is taught to them, and their mother starts misguiding them.”

I was raised by my father, so no problem there.

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Jay Hammers January 18, 2010 at 18:00

Brilliant article.

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Words Twice January 18, 2010 at 18:06

Jeff January 18, 2010 at 17:46: …so I broke it off with her and starting nailing the older slut who lived down the street.

At eight years of age?

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Jabberwocky from home January 18, 2010 at 18:10

“When a woman smiles at me, I think of an old ethic bashing joke – “What does a ______ say instead of ‘fuck you?‘” Answer “Trust Me.”

I know! I know! A Jew! Trust me, I’ve heard this one before. What do I get? Do I get a free Spearhead t-shirt? Oh, it wasn’t a fill in the blank?….What?……Oh….Are we going to start spelling out dirty words in front of the minorities now? Good thinking. I heard some in eye gee gee ee are’s hang out here. Even some eff aye gee gee oh tee’s. Better be careful. Smart thinking. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

(This joke has been brought to you by Jabberwocky for the prevention of knee jerk racism and knee jerk politically correct self censorship. (I may not like black people sometimes, but unlike some people, I respect them enough as equals, that I expect them to be able to deal with the occasional nigger joke in good humor. (I kid! I joke! I’ve had several black friends throughout my life….just, not, one riiight now. I would never use the N word in real life, and I don’t know a single nigg…ur, I mean, ethnic joke. I voted for Obama! (Maybe if I keep using parenthesis, people will forget that I have my foot in my mouth. (One more and that should do the trick. (Okay done. (What was I talking about? (Feminist suck balls!))))))))

(Don’t look to deep into the above lame joke. It took on a life of its own, and by the end of it, I had put too much work into it to delete it. Chalk it up as attention whoring.)

We really need to remember the original point however, because I love a women’s smile. A women’s smile can be hypnotic. Especially when followed by giggles and eye batting. I don’ know how the typical male emotional reaction to that is programed into our DNA, but I’m certain it is. Now, if this is the power a woman has with just her face, imagine what a determined one can accomplish when using the rest of her body also. I wonder how many intelligent, disciplined, educated and powerful men are taken in by some hussy with a pretty face and a well done boob job every year? What marriage is Donald Trump on? I don’t care how much he has perfected the pre-nup, I can tell his wife is a raging bitch just from the way she holds herself. Never forget their true nature; selfish and lacking in reason and accountability.

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Jeff January 18, 2010 at 18:10

Yeah. The girl I was nailing was 13.

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Zeta January 18, 2010 at 18:13

I view women in the same way as I see Great White Pointers, hyenas and vultures. They are all as they are by nature, and to hate them for being what they are is to hate Nature itself. The best I can do to avoid natural predators is to stay out of their way, and a few close encounters have taught me a thing or two about how to do just that.

That’s how I would describe my view, pretty much. Women, on the whole, are kind of like the droid army in the Star Wars movies; as a group, they hate me for being a penis-bearer, but it’s hard to hate them too much for acting out as they have. After all, female nature has not fundamentally changed; they act this way because female nature has been given absolute license. “Pick and choose equality”, having their cake and eating it too, all the rights and no responsibilities. Women are amoral herd creatures, and whatever the status quo is, they will follow it. (Sure, many men are like this as well, but it’s not essentially 100% as it is for women. We are the independent sex that starts the revolutions, makes the inventions, does the philosophizing. Women are sheep.)

Also, I’m a former nice guy myself. Didn’t come to MGTOW from being spurned, though… I’m just a logical guy. I went from thinking women were sugar and spice, something I should pursue, to someone who espouses the perspective that I outlined above (and someone who would formerly be outraged by Globalman’s posts, but now loves ‘em). Not a good thing when they’re losing guys like me and some of the other men I know (high IQ, good looking, successful but not “alpha” enough).

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zed January 18, 2010 at 18:14

The reason why this is not talked about historically, I believe, is because women have never allowed it.

Just like recently – remember, you can never say anything bad about a woman because “NAWALT!”

Jeff January 18, 2010 at 18:23

“Just like recently – remember, you can never say anything bad about a woman because “NAWALT!””

The funny thing, IMO, is whenever you say anything bad about any woman, almost all of them blurt out “Not all women are like that.”

Not all birds shit on my car either, but I don’t park my car under a pigeon roost unless I want to stop by the car wash on the way home.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 18:43

Pakars January 18, 2010 at 16:30

I’m a 19 year old guy living in America right now, and I’m one of the very few that came to the same conclusions that MRAs and MGTOW have on my own(And found these movements afterwards)– That it’s a losing proposition to attempt to find a loving relationship in today’s social climate, not to mention the dangers of today’s legislature and courts.

I’ve believed all along that young men like you would show up eventually. Not all men are stupid enough to keep falling for the scam. As the old saying goes – you can fool all of the men some of the time, and some of the men all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the men all of the time. I have to admit that the last few generations of men have tested my faith in that belief, but I think men are a very resourceful breed and not nearly as stupid as women think we are.

Having gotten wise to the game at a very young age, you are in a great position to stay ahead of it – every new gambit they come with, all you have to do is adapt yourself to it and wait for the next. All you have to do is be resolute about not putting yourself under the authority of some woman via marriage. Don’t fall for all the nonsense about marriage being good for you. Marriage is good for society, which Fedrz is correct in saying means women.

You can watch the ones who aren’t so bright get caught in the trap, but never try to help them out and keep them from getting themselves caught – they will hate you for it. You can’t save society because women don’t want it saved, so don’t pay much attention to how other people behave – just make your own choices and go your own way.

Harry January 18, 2010 at 18:48

@Zed

Genius.

@All

The title of Zed’s piece, “Hate Bounces: How man-hating and man-bashing harms women – the making of a misogynist” reminds me of one of my old pieces. LOL!

And here it is!

http://www.angryharry.com/esMenhavebreddogsandcattle.htm

Fifth reckons that men will use sexbots – and such things – as an alternative to women.

I suspect that men in the future will also breed women, just like they do dogs and cattle.

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Bob Smith January 18, 2010 at 19:01

It was ubiquitous code speak for hating our guts, only now reflecting that the hate was a product of psychotherapy. They had been healed into hating.

Given how politically correct and feminist the field of psychology is today, and how the American Psychological Association is basically a subsidiary of both feminism and the Democratic party, it doesn’t surprise me that women are taught to hate men during psychotherapy.

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Black&German January 18, 2010 at 19:19

After all, female nature has not fundamentally changed; they act this way because female nature has been given absolute license. “Pick and choose equality”, having their cake and eating it too, all the rights and no responsibilities.

That was my point. Thank you for putting it more succinctly. Society has changed but the inherent nature of women hasn’t. Time to change it back and return to sanity.

I understand why men do not get involved with women any longer and do not believe bachelors deserve any shame for their choices.

I understand about that. But the pump-n-dump brigade rankles. I worry about the effect their antics have on the children around them.

Hestia, please don’t despair. Things are definitely improving. Can’t you feel it? I’m certain our kids are going to be better off than we are.

Okay, I know I’m the corny eternal optimist around here…. but can’t you feel it, guys?

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Hestia January 18, 2010 at 19:45

@B&G-Hestia, please don’t despair. Things are definitely improving. Can’t you feel it? I’m certain our kids are going to be better off than we are.

Okay, I know I’m the corny eternal optimist around here…. but can’t you feel it, guys?
I must admit I can’t feel it. The West is at a crossroads right now, a time when various ills could be improved or a time when things become markedly worse. Marxism. Feminism and Misandry. Radical Islam and Sharia. Economic Depression and Inflation. The list goes on.

These are scary times we live in and while I’d like to optimistic, I must be a realist. If something isn’t done soon, the wonderful social experiment that was Western culture may be coming to an end. As a fellow army wife advised me when I first got married, you hope for the best, plan for the worst, and make all of your plans in pencil. She meant this advice when handling military life, but I believe it’s wisdom to be used in all realms of life. And so that’s what I do for now: hope that the something *big* that is surely coming is positive, but be prepared in case it’s negative and frightening. Besides, I have been seriously burned in the past for being a naive, optimistic Pollyanna who was incapable of seeing darkness for what it was. Never again if I can help it.

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Harry January 18, 2010 at 19:58

@Hawaiin

“In simpler terms, when a man hears or see a woman or women engaging in these nasty behaviors, look no further than the examples they are simply following – their role models in their TV shows, their movie stars they idolize and worship, and their magazines that endlessly repeat the mantras, memes and shibboleths that have instilled this ugly hatred that manifests in so many Western Women.”

Indeed.

But if you look at the recent testimonies of some of the old farts round here, it seems that they while they used to believe this, they are also now (as a result of experience and observation) of the view that it is women, themselves, who have engendered all this hostility towards men.

IOW, it is not so much the misandry emanating from the media (and elsewhere) that has made women so ‘nasty’ these days, it is the other way round.

It is women, themselves, who have inflicted their malicious natures on men through the media etc.

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zed January 18, 2010 at 20:07

If something isn’t done soon, the wonderful social experiment that was Western culture may be coming to an end.

that’s what I do for now: hope that the something *big* that is surely coming is positive, but be prepared in case it’s negative and frightening.

Hestia,

If it comes to an end, then it is simply a failed experiment. We learn as much from failed experiments as we do from successful ones.

Human history goes back a lot of years. Cultures have come and gone, but you and I are here, aren’t we? People who are aware can do OK even when times are not good. In fact, people who are aware are generally the only ones who do OK when times are not good.

We owe little allegiance to the larger culture, particularly when it has no allegiance to us. You are doing what is most likely to assure the survival of yourself and those you love – focusing on family. That will give you advantages and resources that many other people do not have.

For all our comfort, safety, and wealth, Americans are not a very happy people. There are many cultures who are much poorer in the material sense where people enjoy their lives more. In fact, American women were so desperate to find unhappiness somewhere that they could call an affluent suburb with nannies and other domestic help a “comfortable concentration camp.”

Worry about your own, and let the other fools take care of their own – or not. You will do OK.

Connie January 18, 2010 at 20:31

Black and German: Interesting that you should mention vampires. Women today (including myself) love to read vampire stories because they’re dangerous and scary.

I have a little bit different take on it.

This may be somewhat off-topic for this thread — my apologies — so I’ll keep it as brief as I can.

The religious tradition I was raised in says that wives are to submit to their husbands’ authority. That was western culture’s religious tradition for several centuries, as well. Such submission requires that women look up to their husbands and to do that, they have to marry men who are better than they are. How can a woman look up to, and submit to, a man who is no better than she is?

I believe the desire to submit to men, particularly husbands, exists naturally in women, to some degree. It’s bound to make feminists cringe, rage and gnash their teeth. They’ve conducted a decades-long effort to shame women into rejecting respect for and submission to their husbands, even Christian women, and it has been largely successful.

So what do women do with this naturally occurring desire to look up to and submit to a man that feminism is trying to shame out of them? They make him not-a-man, not a member of the evil patriarchy. They make him a vampire, a shape-shifter, a were-something (wolf, python, whatever), an extra-terrestrial, an extra-dimensional and read about him in romance novels or watch him in movies.

I went through a spell of reading romances back in the 1980s, and when I tried it again a few years ago, I was appalled at the literal monsters “heroes” have become. But the real monster, IMO, is feminism, which has invaded and influenced even women’s escapist fiction. It seems there’s no place in our culture where it hasn’t gone and wrought havoc.

I enjoy reading your comments on The Spearhead. I like your perspective and depth.

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The Fifth Horseman January 18, 2010 at 20:43

Fifth reckons that men will use sexbots – and such things – as an alternative to women.

As an alternative to the *physicality* of women, yes. At least to the extent that a virtual 10 is better than a real 7 or lower.

The need for love will still be there. As the only thing a woman will have left to offer is love, women will be forced to work on that if they want to have any prospect of male attention at all.

But the power of most women will drop tremendously.

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Dr. Paul January 18, 2010 at 20:44

Off topic but not.

For those interested I have just posted and interview with Zed at MND. Not at all surprisingly, it is really good stuff.

Interview with Zed.

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Dr. Paul January 18, 2010 at 20:45

Oh and make some coffee. The interview runs 7,000 words.

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David January 18, 2010 at 21:46

I think you are correct, Connie, and this is somewhat similar to what I have been saying here myself. If women are “turned on” by submitting to a better man, they will look for him anywhere. Even some feminists have admitted to being excited by the thought of being dominated by men like Osama bin Laden. And I think some of the female reaction to President Obama has been erotic.

To find her superior male, a woman can either lust after someone in her imagination (a powerful supernatural being like a vampire), or be lucky enough to find a truly powerful and dominant man, or she can choose to see her husband as in some sense superior to her, simply by virtue of being a man and her husband.

In earlier days when the Christian headship of the husband was more widely accepted (and, as I have pointed out here, this was only a few decades ago), a woman could be satisfied in her hypergamic desires by an ordinary husband. But if the culture tells her that ordinary husbands deserve no respect (contrary to what St Paul wrote about the necessity for wifely respect), she will be disappointed with her husband. He will seem lacklustre.

My wife is not always a happy woman. I expect this is common to her sex. But I have managed for a long time now (yesterday we celebrated our 24th wedding anniversary) to somehow keep her respect. I think some of this stems from our religious beliefs. But is is a hard battle these days to keep a wife’s respect and erotic interest.

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Harry January 18, 2010 at 22:10

@Dr Paul

Fantastic interview.

Perhaps you should have included this picture of Zed …

http://tinyurl.com/yzn9klz

… taken a few years ago.

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 22:12

But is is a hard battle these days to keep a wife’s respect and erotic interest.

I have yet to meet a woman who doesn’t giggle at being playfully teased about getting spanked. I just keep counting them up everytime she gets mouthy. “Really mouthy” things make them jump up 3 to 5 at a time. After about 12 or 15, I describe to her that it will be over my knee… pants and panties around her ankles… and by the time she knows she’s gonna get 20 or 30 or so of them… she’s already admitted that sex is going to be happenning. Seems the spankings never really do happen…

The Rule of Thumb for Wife Beating Hoax, is, I suspect, just more of that projection thing that women seem prone to do.

Maybe we should make sure that in marriage, a man has the right to give his wife a bare bottomed paddling over his knee, at his discretion, eh?

That is, if you should choose this Mission Impossible known as marriage.

This message will destruct in five seconds.

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David January 18, 2010 at 22:18

fedrz

Well, as I have said here before, and I suspect you may be feeding stuff back at me, something I have seen here before, I have in fact regularly spanked my wife. When she is in the right mood, she loves it, and it often leads to lots of erotic moments and good sex.

My wife mostly wears skirts, so it is skirt up and panties down normally. I don’t like her in pants, and I think this is why she rarely wears them.

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Dr. Paul January 18, 2010 at 22:32

@ Harry

Zed is nowhere near that good looking. But don’t laugh. You are next!!

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fedrz January 18, 2010 at 22:38

Lol! David, sorry, not feeding anything back at you… that works quite well for me to pick up women. I didn’t realize you had said that before. However, I am not just only talking to you.

There’s something to this… and it goes even beyond, I believe, because it seems nearly universal.

I remember reading some accounts of the suffragettes, 100 some years ago, writing about how they knew they were being downright miserable little shrews to their husbands, and then admitting “I wish he would just beat me.”

In fact, even the Great Walrus, Andrea Dworkin, admits that women have built in masochistic identity:

“As I see it, our revolutionary task is to destroy phallic identity in men and masochistic nonidentity in women–that is, to destroy the polar realities of men and women as we now know them so that this division of human flesh into two camps–one an armed camp and the other a concentration camp–is no longer possible. Phallic identity is real and it must be destroyed. Female masochism is real and it must be destroyed.” — Andrea Dworkin, Our Blood: Prophecies And Discourses On Sexual Politics – The Root Cause, (Harper & Row, 1976)

Also, it used to be pretty commonly thought of that sometimes, while not pleasant, a wife truly might deserve a smack.

“Do ya wanna go to the moon?” — Jackie Gleason

That used to be popular culture.

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newly divorced January 18, 2010 at 22:43

Every guy who is beyond the age of wanting sex (60+) sounds just like you. They say their is no reason to even talk to women except sex.

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Harry January 18, 2010 at 23:01

@Dr Paul

“Zed is nowhere near that good looking.”

***THAT’S*** for sure!

LOL!

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David January 18, 2010 at 23:06

fedrz

My wife got me to spank her even before we were married. I shall never forget how turned on she was the first time. I remember reading one of those little erotic magazines, which had a feature on spanking, and thinking how great it would be to have a woman who was into that. Be careful what you wish for, because that is what I got.

It has always been erotic for us, not a true punishment, although sometimes it can have a slightly disciplinary touch.

As for the culture, my mother has sometimes said of an annoying young woman that she deserves a smack. I think the idea was that a man might deserve a punch or a real beating, but a woman, being weaker and more childlike, should receive a spanking.

Once or twice, my wife has told me that she thinks she needs, as in deserves, a spanking. But normally it is just for fun.

There is something ridiculous about a grown woman being spanked, but I guess that only adds to the humiliation, which is half the fun for the female I imagine.

There are lots of other petty humiliations that I suspect wives enjoy, or used to. Perhaps we should regain some of this old culture.

My view is that nearly every woman has a masochistic streak, but some, especially these days, choose not to let it develop.

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J. Durden January 18, 2010 at 23:55

I’m a 19 year old guy living in America right now, and I’m one of the very few that came to the same conclusions that MRAs and MGTOW have on my own(And found these movements afterwards)– That it’s a losing proposition to attempt to find a loving relationship in today’s social climate, not to mention the dangers of today’s legislature and courts.

I came to these conclusions because I’m a rather logical person, and because for the last eight years of my life, I’ve heard nothing but put-downs, insults, and false implications about men(and thus myself). Nearly every woman in my life under the age of thirty acted, at least in part, with contempt towards me, as if I was less-than-human, and as if they somehow deserve everything from me, just because I’m male and they’re female. I once bought into the lie that feminism is about “equality”, but I have long since turned against that because there’s no reciprocation towards men in this so-called “equality”. I’ve even been called a misogynist by people my own age for not buying women I hardly even know something they can’t afford themselves.

Because of this, I’ve taken myself out of the game, except for casual encounters for my benefit. I’m not going to waste my time and money(3x or more than my own costs) on people who have proven they’re not worth it, and just want what you have without repaying you in any way for it.

You’re aren’t entirely alone, there, sir. I’m 21 and I had very similar experiences and reached similar conclusions also on my own. (Maybe with a little help from Nice Guy, which helped me avoid the pain of making stupid mistakes on my own. I started reading him when I was 12.) I think guys like you and I are part of a growing trend, which does not bode well for feminism, to say the least.

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The Fifth Horseman January 19, 2010 at 00:17

It is good to see young guys getting savvy.

One fully savvy guy cuts off not one, but THREE parasites.

Note that being fully savvy means LIVING the knowledge. There are a lot of guys who know all this but still act in a manner of those who don’t know all this.

That it’s a losing proposition to attempt to find a loving relationship in today’s social climate, not to mention the dangers of today’s legislature and courts.

TEACH MORE YOUNG GUYS. Each guy you teach cuts off 3 parasites.

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J. Durden January 19, 2010 at 02:12

I’ve been teaching any who will listen. Trying to force open a a mind is like trying to peel a banana with a chainsaw. You’re probably going to incur collateral damage or destroy what you were working towards in the first place.

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David Brandt January 19, 2010 at 02:41

@Newly divorced

” Every guy who is beyond the age of wanting sex (60+) sounds just like you. They say their is no reason to even talk to women except sex.”

I’m 55 and would say my libido is only about ten percent lower than what it was 20 years ago. However, I stay in shape being a martial artist (western boxing/Wing Chun/Chinese Kenpo (a conglomeration)/Pa Kua and Qi Gong supplement with Robert Bruce’s NEW internal energy methods…and a body-builder (which truly does increase testosterone and increases libido) really works (even simple weight lifting if kept under an hour which I do every 3 days because it simply takes longer for muscle to repair at my age will increase the sex drive). Alternatively, I enjoy the fact that it’s not nearly as strong as it was in my teens and twenties, which is really pure hell. Learning how to direct the sexual energy with internal practice is great. Being able to control others is simple and unrewarding—control over yourself is far more difficult and challenging. Once you gain a measure of control over yourself it is a richly rewarding experience. When you channel your energy into gaining new skills such as learning new languages, teaching yourself entirely new skills and putting them to use just doesn’t get any better. Being able to simply let go of attachments and dropping illusions and beliefs is very liberating. Yet I can watch my son solve puzzles which I could probably not do in years, where it comes as simple a s breathing to me is something that give me great perspective. Hiking through the desert and mountains here in New Mexico observing such profound simplicity offers me great serenity and awe at the same time.
On the whole spanking thing, I’ve also observed women who enjoy wrestling me down and then ‘forced’ connie (I’ll keep this brief and use your imagination), only to have me push her off and bend her over my knee. What is interesting to me is that this is simply a power swap game, yet it seems as though feminists make such a complicated and bizarre meaning to it–and yet it’s so erotically simple with such fun and enjoyment between both people. There’s no deep and/or dark meaning to it. Neither of us is ‘winning’ when she’s on top or on my knee because it has nothing to do with that. I’d spank her hard enough for a little sting, never designed for injury, and after both of these she’d be excited. There’s a lot of little ‘naughty’ games like that, but it is simply what it is–no ‘deep’ meaning at all. Even the act of pushing her off, picking her up and carrying her over while she’s kicking her feet (not very hard) is the same thing. Or if she’s on her back and just about to ‘O’—and she tries to push me off (not really even hard enough to mean anything–and I grab her arms and hold her down, she has a massive ‘O’ because I ‘forced’ it, loving every second of it. These nutty feminists would call something like that rayype, because she gave me an extremely consensual ‘non’ consent.
I literally can’t stand true amorality in anyone (I value honor and integrity, qualities my true friends have–and I can count those friends on the fingers of one hand), and it is a rare exception when I see that in a woman ( But under those conditions, when it’s just her and me, that feigned ‘amorality’ anything goes is something we both enjoy, because it’s just us and we both want it. It’s at that time, when she’s wild and free that we both enjoy that part immensely (no, I’m not referring to real heavy stuff, although there’s been some of that too–but hey, if we both want it, so what? It isn’t anyone’s business except her and I. So much of that is in the minds of both people, not so much in their bodies.
Even the simple fun of childhood is taken in such a bizarrely serious context when it is anything but……
I mentioned this before but I’ll do so again because for me, it is an example of how insane they are. In the 4th grade, I had a best friend named Sean. Sometimes after school, we would go across the street in back of the Village of West Milwaukee police station and punched each other out. There wasn’t any anger (except for a couple times with a hard stray punch–something we laughed about later)–and nobody came to ‘break it up’, no teachers, no police coming out to slap the cuffs on. Honestly, the cops had to see us but they either sat there laughing or took bets….Why?…..because of simple common sense, because whern they were boys they no doubt did the same things. These days, they might taser you, and/or throw cuffs on you and the school would recommend putting us on spirit-killing drugs because there was something wrong with us–we didn’t act or behave like girls …..nor were we supposed to. Now they’re giving atypical antipsychotic poisons to 3 and 4 year olds. I read where a 7 month old infant was given Risperdal because of being diagnosed as being bi-polar, and it eventually killed the infant. Psychiatrists at Harvard are writing that it’s ok to be giving these toxins to children for entirely false and bogus disorders. When my children were that young, we might give them Yerba de Mansa tea for colic or a sick stomach. These shrinks (‘paid millions of dollars by pharmaceutical corporations to support ‘research’ on the diagnosis of these fake disorders and recommending that they be administered these neurotoxic and hepatotoxic compound on infants and toddlers.

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msexceptiontotherule January 19, 2010 at 03:40

re:
” zed “…
Perhaps being raised in a small, rural farming town, then studying at a tech school (with hardly any women), and dating women from his church has sheltered him from the worst feminist damage.

…”Plus, he obviously showed the good sense to pick better parents and a better place to be born than some of us did. (I expect most men will get this, and most women won’t.)”

More likely the luck of the draw, which is randomly distributed yet also varies in situational components from person to person. Essentially: luck isn’t applicable in all men/women’s cases, nor does any specific circumstance guarantee that a person will be lucky.

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Migu January 19, 2010 at 04:31

Zed? Zorander? You are the zen priest no?

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zed January 19, 2010 at 04:58

yes

Migu January 19, 2010 at 05:14

I’ve given that essay to many men these past couple of years. I hope my beat friend remembers it when his love starts nailing him for cs for the little thuglings that aren’t even his. Thanks first wizard, it was that essay that convinced me to break off my engagement three years ago. Not a single regret. Late twenties, and yes I am a well manufactured mysogynist.

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TDOM January 19, 2010 at 08:13

Excellent article. I haven’t reached the point where I actually hate women. But in general I am afraid of them. Every relationship I ever had with a womam has been guided by this fear, save one. That’s the one I married.

I recently had a similar experience of demonstrating courtesy to a woman only to have it thrown in my face. I wrote about in my blog on Cristmas Eve. I you are interested here is the link: http://thedamnedoldeman.com/?p=332

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Hestia January 19, 2010 at 08:56

@zed-We learn as much from failed experiments as we do from successful ones.
Indeed. That is how I learned how to cook and much more. Oftentimes we learn more from mistakes and failures it seems.

In fact, people who are aware are generally the only ones who do OK when times are not good.

Worry about your own, and let the other fools take care of their own – or not. You will do OK.
I not only hope you’re right, zed, but hope I am doing enough to prepare for, well, the coming night as I call the impending doom on my blog. Do I need to break out the abaya my husband sent me from Kuwait last year or learn Mandarin Chinese…mighty difficult to tell what the future might bring. ;)

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Black&German January 19, 2010 at 09:58

And so that’s what I do for now: hope that the something *big* that is surely coming is positive, but be prepared in case it’s negative and frightening.

Yeah, we should definitely prepare. We’re going off the grid as much as possible, working on our food supplies, revamping our heating, contacting legislators, consolidating contacts, etc. Bunkering down, as it were (and I know you’ve been moving in a similar direction). Considering that the entire state shuts down if there’s even an inch of snow on the ground, it’s better to be prepared than sorry. It wouldn’t take much to bring everything around here to a standstill.

But I just can’t shake the sense that people are waking up and that reform is nigh. I guess even though I think it’ll be better within the next 20 years (in time for my kids), I think it might get really ugly first, so I’m preparing for that. I’m not scared of ugly though, as long as it all works out in the end.

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Jabherwochie January 19, 2010 at 10:26

“@zed- We learn as much from failed experiments as we do from successful ones.

Indeed. That is how I learned how to cook and much more. Oftentimes we learn more from mistakes and failures it seems.”

Ah yes. I’m quite sure that much of my brilliance comes from being quite the idiot. I’m not being sarcastic. Eventually however, its best to learn how to learn from other people’s mistakes, but it was far more efficient to learn from my own. I took more risks than the average person, and therefore had more mistakes to learn from. Of course, lacking “social common sense”, meant I had more to learn to begin with, but I discovered some interesting tid bits of info many people were blind to back then. I remember in early Highschool when I discovered I could make just about any girl cry by saying mean things to her. The first time it was an accident when I was angry, but as a male with no sisters, asshole friends, a jerk brother, and an a-typical Alpha female mom, I was primarily used to stoicism in the face of a verbal assault. I knew words could make people cry. I wasn’t that stupid, I just didn’t realize how easy it was for me to achieve the result. I was honestly intrigued by it, and as an experiment made three or four more girls cry during the next few weeks. It was done mostly out of facination, although a rush of power was experienced also. I guess I’m also pretty good at picking people apart when I want to, so it wasn’t just random insults, but personal stuff, personality and looks stuff. Once I figured out how easy it was however, I stopped doing it (I’m not a sadist (well, a little bit in the bedroom, but thats different)). What a weird way to learn that females are emotionally sensitive to a degree that was illogical to my male mind. Of course, I was made fun of quite a bit, but my reaction was anger, which seemed natural, so maybe I knew an emotional response was expected, I just didn’t expect it to consistently be crying. (It makes sense to me know, as women aren’t the doers, they get people to do things for them, and crying is a distress signal.) Thinking back on it, not only did those brief incidents not negatively affect my reputation, I bet they might of even helped it, but I’m purely speculating at this point based on my current understanding of females. There was no fallout. Nothing. A few popular girls even had crushes on me around that time before my reputation as a Beta solidified. If only I had found it easier to be an asshole in general, instead of only when it was needed to participate in male ball busting, who knows what could have been.

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null January 19, 2010 at 10:41

slwerner “Sorry, chump, Nobody in either camp cares enough about you to even bother to hate you. Weird how you would imagine yourself some sort of “focal point”.”

Weird how you would imagine that I was trying to set myself up as a focal point, when I was so very obviously saying that feminists and PUAs automatically hate anyone who isn’t part of them.

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Kulak January 19, 2010 at 10:48

X Factor girl who made false rape claim against her ex-fiance walks free from court | Mail Online

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1049854/X-Factor-girl-false-rape-claim-ex-fiance-walks-free-court.html

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Krauser January 19, 2010 at 10:50

TFH – great link. This post was class:

http://winecatsandfeminism.wordpress.com/2009/12/19/a-classic-example-of-male-privilege/

Oh my word, does she not get it!

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Get Real January 19, 2010 at 10:56

“…feminists and PUAs automatically hate anyone who isn’t part of them.”
___

Null,

This seems to be a mantra of yours, with the consistent lumping of pua’s with feminists.

We know how you feel about pua’s and mra’s, but are you really against feminism, or is this just a way of yours to come across looking ‘even-handed’ when you criticise us?

So do you have any meaningful criticism’s of feminism, or are they just token ones? Please do tell otherwise if you disagree.

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Kulak January 19, 2010 at 11:08

“We know how you feel about pua’s and mra’s, but are you really against feminism, or is this just a way of yours to come across looking ‘even-handed’ when you criticise us?

“So do you have any meaningful criticism’s of feminism, or are they just token ones? Please do tell otherwise if you disagree.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Crickets chirping……

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Black&German January 19, 2010 at 11:12

Eventually however, its best to learn how to learn from other people’s mistakes, but it was far more efficient to learn from my own.

Some people learn by reading, some people learn by watching, and some people just have to pee on the electric fence all by themselves.

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Jabherwochie January 19, 2010 at 12:09

I was just curious. How bad could it be? Now I have a very colorful and detailed memory of that experience in my mental file. IQ +1.

J/k. Never peed on one, but on my grandpa’s farm, all the boys would see who could hold onto the electric fence the longest. IQ -1.

We didn’t play with the bull fence however. That one would apparently knock you down. IQ +/- 0. Never grabbing the bull fence = Priceless.

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Black&German January 19, 2010 at 12:59

LOL.

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Keyester January 19, 2010 at 13:01

This is a bit like the revolt of the BETA MALE.
If a man displays certian masculine characteristics and asset potential, or is in a position of power such as a “professional”, celebrity, athelete or politician…he is blessed to be among the alpha male ranks and rated very high in female desirability.

Women abuse, insult, dismiss, etc. the men (95% of us) who are viewed as beta male or “not mate worthy”. Feminism has only furthered this dynamic. But then she finds even the alpha male is quite fleeting, and moves on to another, depending on how much money he has left.

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Black&German January 19, 2010 at 14:37

Most women date and/or marry beta men (except in the underclass). Don’t believe everything the PUA’s write. The problem is serial monogamy, with one beta man being traded off for another.

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null January 19, 2010 at 18:03

Get Real “This seems to be a mantra of yours, with the consistent lumping of pua’s with feminists.”

Kind of hard to avoid when the similarities just keep piling up.

“We know how you feel about pua’s and mra’s, but are you really against feminism, or is this just a way of yours to come across looking ‘even-handed’ when you criticise us?”

As we all know, every person on the planet is either a feminist or a MRA/PUA and there’s just no way it could be otherwise.

“So do you have any meaningful criticism’s of feminism, or are they just token ones? Please do tell otherwise if you disagree.”

Cool evasive maneuver, bro.

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Get real January 19, 2010 at 19:35

@Null
“As we all know, every person on the planet is either a feminist or a MRA/PUA and there’s just no way it could be otherwise.”
__

So what you are effectively saying then it is ‘human nature’ the behavior you so criticise others here for, since “everyone” … “on the planet” … is either a fem or a pua, and thus not amenable to effective change, again, since it is ‘human nature’.

Which one ARE YOU, then, hmmmm??

“Cool evasive maneuver, bro.”

Absolutely, since you obviously seem not to have a real problem with feminists, since you could and would not answer the question.

He he.

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Eman January 19, 2010 at 22:59

Excellent essay.

Gender is an endlessly fascinating topic, but for me it is far too atavistic or ‘basic’ to get endlessly hung up about.

At base, gender isn’t too complicated, so don’t try to overcomplicate it as feminists do – there are men and there are women, it is pretty simple. The feminist assault on ‘gender norms’ during the 20th Century was an assault at the atavistic gender-base of a society – so deflect their attacks via seeking to return to simple gender normality: man and woman, each gender with their clear and specified roles. Do not let the feminists complicate and obfuscate a topic that is so basic and simple as gender. Cut out the femincentric toxicity of modern mass-media, academia, and so on out of your life – seek to deprogram as many modern womyn as you can of their gender-neuroticism by retraining them like you would a dumb puppy, that is all it takes.

In these troubled times Western men should focus their time on more important and pertinent topics such as race/ethnicity instead of gender. I say that because ace/ethnicity is endlessly more fascinating than gender considering how intricate it is. Race/ethnicity is also primordial and basic just as gender is, but not quite – thus there is much more room for subtlety, thought, and reason (all male strengths) – not to mention The West needs to wake up to the stark realities of the racial/ethnic problems facing us or we will find ourselves near-extinct in another 100 years or so.

In short, do not let modern womyn drag you modern men down in to the mucky primordial pit of ‘gender wars’ – rise above that pit, you are man. Again, we must spend our time facing more important topics (such as race/ethnicity, the economy, politics, science, etc) rather than endlessly bickering about unchangeably primordial atavisms such as gender with petty/gossipy modern ‘liberated’ womyn who are just bored and spoiled and want attention.

History clearly shows that men are above women in almost every respect – so treat women that way and the currently messed up gender norms of society will soon return to normal. Even the most average man is innately superior to the most exceptional womyn – don’t ever forget that. Once the modern womyn return to a semblance of normality, once they are put back in their place and again become women instead of womyn, well then we can begin to show them respect and true love again.

Do not hate modern feminist womyn because hate is toxic to the soul, but rather just seek to guide these neurotic modern ‘liberated’ womyn back in their rightful place below men: again, they need to be trained like the dumb puppies they are, they need to be guided back to normality, corralled back in as it were. Most women are miserable without a male guiding her in life (whether father, boyfriend, husband, male boss, etc), so be a good leader and rule the relationship by guiding, protecting, and healing a modern womyn of her neuroticism and severe hang-ups, corral her in and bring her back to reality — the way to do this is by being the uncompromising boss of her.

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null January 20, 2010 at 11:24

Get real “So what you are effectively saying then it is ‘human nature’ the behavior you so criticise others here for, since “everyone” … “on the planet” … is either a fem or a pua, and thus not amenable to effective change, again, since it is ‘human nature’.” Which one ARE YOU, then, hmmmm??

You might want to check your sarcasm detector. Obviously the idea that everyone must be either a PUA/MRA or a feminist is ludicrous, and only a sick mind (such as one belonging to a PUA/MRA or feminist) would think otherwise.

“Absolutely, since you obviously seem not to have a real problem with feminists, since you could and would not answer the question.”

As we all know, every person on the planet is either a feminist or a MRA/PUA and there’s just no way it could be otherwise.

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fedrz January 20, 2010 at 11:35

The problem is serial monogamy, with one beta man being traded off for another. — B&G

The term Rotating Polyandry is probably more accurate than Serial Monogamy.

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Get Real January 20, 2010 at 11:41

“You might want to check your sarcasm detector. Obviously the idea that everyone must be either a PUA/MRA or a feminist is ludicrous, and only a sick mind (such as one belonging to a PUA/MRA or feminist) would think otherwise.”

Yet ‘he’ REPEATS ‘himself’ -

“As we all know, every person on the planet is either a feminist or a MRA/PUA and there’s just no way it could be otherwise.”

Wow, what stellar debating tactics there!

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slwerner January 20, 2010 at 11:50

Get Real –
“Wow, what stellar debating tactics there!”

If this null entity actually had anything meaningful to say, it would have done so by now. It’s been asked to share it’s opinions on the actual issues at hand on numerous occasions, but never seems to get beyond simply retorting that, “only a PUA/MRA/Feminist would ask for an opinion” [to paraphrase typical null posts].

Annoying as it is to put up with such idiocy without challenging it (believe me, I do understand), it seems it would be best to simply treat this null as a non-entity, and ignore anything it posts until and unless it actually takes the time to lay out it’s positions on various topics of importance to those who frequent this site.

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null January 20, 2010 at 15:12

Get Real “Wow, what stellar debating tactics there!”

Of course I will repeat myself if there is nothing new that needs to be said. So again: the human population is not divided into feminists and PUAs/MRAs except in your imagination. Some of us realize that both movements are equally bad and oppose both of them.

slwerner “If this null entity actually had anything meaningful to say, it would have done so by now.”

“Meaninful” of course meaning “something that is in accordance with MRA/PUA doctrine.”

“It’s…”

“It?” Not “he” or even “she?” Do you often have delusions about artificial intelligences or perhaps animals posting on the Internet?

“…been asked to share it’s opinions on the actual issues at hand on numerous occasions, but never seems to get beyond simply retorting that, “only a PUA/MRA/Feminist would ask for an opinion” [to paraphrase typical null posts].”

Where have I said that?

“Annoying as it is to put up with such idiocy without challenging it (believe me, I do understand), it seems it would be best to simply treat this null as a non-entity, and ignore anything it posts until and unless it actually takes the time to lay out it’s positions on various topics of importance to those who frequent this site.”

“Position” of course meaning “something that is in accordance with MRA/PUA doctrine.”

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Get Real January 20, 2010 at 15:19

“So again: the human population is not divided into feminists and PUAs/MRAs except in your imagination. (*Uh, no in yours)

“Some of us realize that both movements are equally bad and oppose both of them.”

So name some genuine objections you supposedly have with feminists?

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Kulak January 20, 2010 at 15:22

Give it up ‘Null-n-Void’.

You obviously lost the debate here on this thread. Your (non) responses were about as genuine as a three dollar bill.

Better luck next time.

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null January 20, 2010 at 15:48

Get Real “So name some genuine objections you supposedly have with feminists?”

Why? It isn’t relevant at all, and if you oppose feminism then there is hardly any point in me explaining to you what’s wrong with it.

Kulak “You obviously lost the debate here on this thread.”

What exactly did I lose?

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null January 20, 2010 at 15:50

“(*Uh, no in yours)”

How does that make any sense? I specifically said, in no uncertain terms, that the human population absolutely cannot be divided that way.

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canadian girl January 20, 2010 at 16:33

As a chick, yeah I said chick, I am not sure why the men on this website think women hate them. I do not hate men. I am guilty of telling a few man jokes, but that does not mean I hate men. I have heard many blonde jokes, but that does not mean I think that brunettes hate blondes.
Seriously, the “guy that does not ask for directions thing” was in poor taste but to turn that into hating an entire gender, really? The woman was either insensitive or trying to make a bad joke, but probably did not mean any harm.
If some woman does not want you to open the door for her, don’t open the door and let it go.
You guys call women emotional, irrational and that we over react to the smallest thing. I think the shoe is on the other foot in this case.
But if you open the door for me, I will be sure to say thank you!

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Novaseeker January 20, 2010 at 16:41

If you read zed’s post more carefully you might understand. Many of us have had experiences, discussions and so on with many members of your sex over the years (particularly those of us who are 40+) that have indicated clear and unequivocal hatred of men as a class — never mind the stuff that is written by academic feminists who claim to be speaking on behalf of women as a class.

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Snark January 20, 2010 at 16:43

As a chick, yeah I said chick

WOAH!!!

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Get real January 20, 2010 at 23:13

“…It’s been asked to share it’s opinions on the actual issues at hand on numerous occasions, but never seems to get beyond simply retorting that, “only a PUA/MRA/Feminist would ask for an opinion” [to paraphrase typical null posts].” @slwerner

Thanks for the warning, Werner.

You and Kulak are so right: ‘Null-n-void’ (Kulak’s term-LMFAO) really does not wish to discuss and/or debate with anyone here, at least in good faith.

‘He’ is just a smarmy troll who, as Kulak has pointed out, is as phony as a ‘three dollar bill’.

The little twat still cannot name ONE GENUINE disagreement that he has with feminists, whom he is supposedly against. Obvious he is just employing this as a rhetorical weapon just to seem as if he is being “fair” and “even-handed”. Yet he is such a rank amature that he cannot even pull this off without someone calling him on it and embarrasing him over it.

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zel January 21, 2010 at 00:30

@canadian girl
“I am not sure why the men on this website think women hate them. I do not hate men. I am guilty of telling a few man jokes, but that does not mean I hate men”

(sigh)Here we fook’n go again. Let me be the one to say it. Get ready for a shock. It’s not all about you dear. YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

If you take the time to read more of the mens(and some fine womens)views, opinions and experiences regarding WOMEN etc here on at the SH, you may understand a lot more.

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msexceptiontotherule January 21, 2010 at 01:18

I hate feminists, they’re the reason why I have to juggle purse, keys, and 7 bags of groceries while trying to get the gate in from the parking lot open without breaking the key in the lock which is common due to the characteristics of the key itself. They also piss me off with how frequently they get mad because they’re assuming that someone assumed something about them and that’s SEXIST.

Like the guy whose medical condition had required him to take medication which caused menopause-like symptoms, who tried to explain he understood what his wife had been going through to a group of other women, only to have them attack him when they decided what he really meant was that they were all hormonal and crazy. Idiots.

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null January 21, 2010 at 06:54

Kulak “You obviously lost the debate here on this thread. Your (non) responses were about as genuine as a three dollar bill.”

What are you doing out here? Shouldn’t you be hiding behind Get Real?

Get Real “You and Kulak are so right: ‘Null-n-void’ (Kulak’s term-LMFAO) really does not wish to discuss and/or debate with anyone here, at least in good faith.”

“Debate” meaning “a conversation in which all parties say things everyone involved already agrees with.”

“‘He’ is just a smarmy troll who, as Kulak has pointed out, is as phony as a ‘three dollar bill’.”

No, you are a troll. You are trying to derail the thread into an argument about trolling by making random accusations of trolling that are obviously not based on any evidence or reasoning.

“The little twat still cannot name ONE GENUINE disagreement that he has with feminists, whom he is supposedly against.”

Because it isn’t in any way relevant. I’ll go to a feminist site if I want to talk about why feminism is bad (yes, I actually do that instead of just posting in an echo chamber all day long).

“Obvious he is just employing this as a rhetorical weapon just to seem as if he is being “fair” and “even-handed”. Yet he is such a rank amature that he cannot even pull this off without someone calling him on it and embarrasing him over it.”

As we all know, every person in the world must be either a MRA/PUA or a feminist and there’s just no way anyone could oppose both of them because that would be crazy and completely against the laws of nature.

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canadian girl January 21, 2010 at 08:24

I do not blame an entire gender for the crap that has happened in my life and I find it shocking to read all of these men whine and moan like a bunch of stupid little girls because some one was rude to them. You know what, there is a significant probability that you will cross paths with a jerk in the next week, male or female. That is the way life is.
Men complain about women’s victim psycology and then when one person is rude the whole world falls apart and it is turns into a huge feminist conspirasy.
The guy that had his kid taken away by that brazillian woman, he has a right to be angry with women. Those lacross team members taht were falsely accuesed of rape have a right to be angry with women.
Sorry but just because a couple of women are jerks does not mean that women are out to get you.

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Snark January 21, 2010 at 08:27

It’s systematic, canadian girl. It’s a culture and a legal system which encourage nasty and vindictive behaviour on the part of women, and offer no help to men who find themselves the victims of–

Wait, why am I wasting my time with this fembot? Sorry guys. I don’t know what came over me. She doesn’t even understand what a ‘right’ is.

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fedrz January 21, 2010 at 08:36

I do not blame an entire gender for the crap that has happened in my life and I find it shocking to read all of these men whine and moan like a bunch of stupid little girls because some one was rude to them.

Betcha that you fail to speak up when you hear that “Men can stop rape.”

And I’ll bet that you fail to speak up at campus vigils held across Canada each December 6th to remember l’ecole polytechnique. You know, the ones that for ages used to exclude men, much like many of the “Take Back The Night” pot banging nonsense.

Maybe you should fail to speak up now too.

In other words, why don’t you have a nice big cup of STFU and go reread the article.

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Migu January 21, 2010 at 09:05

Come on her feelings got hurt. What is wrong with you guys?

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Migu January 21, 2010 at 09:07

It’s also systemic canadian honey pie

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Troll Detector January 21, 2010 at 11:29

“Because it isn’t in any way relevant. I’ll go to a feminist site if I want to talk about why feminism is bad (yes, I actually do that instead of just posting in an echo chamber all day long).”
@Dull

PROVE IT.

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Jim T. January 21, 2010 at 14:32

Wow… what you told us about here is VERY much like what I’ve been through. I’m pushing 40, and have had similar experiences. I remember being a freshman or sophomore in college, and opening the door for a woman who was right behind me. I didn’t get a kick in the leg for it, but I did get a tongue-lashing. Going further back to middle-school, I remember when a girl just walked up to me and took my basketball out of my hands. She then kicked me and walked away. Why, you ask? Good question. Because, would be my only answer. So I walked over to her and took the ball back, and then kicked her. Of course I’m the one who got in trouble, because I was the boy and boys (men, later) are supposed to just suck it up and deal with it.

Another thing that women need to be aware of is the idea of “crying wolf”. I’m talking about faking like they’re being hurt, when in fact they are not, and are only trying to get their way about something. That too can and will foster more hatred and distrust of women. And the truly sad thing is that men in general want to love and protect women. Men generally want to give special treatment to women (open doors for them, giving up seats, changing tires for them, etc, etc), and we want to be able to open ourselves to them (ie-make ourselves vulnerable). But like the article stated, men learn to distrust and dislike women. What’s even more tragic is that not all women are like this, and they, the good and decent ones that we men long to love, become the collateral damage in this war against men. We men learn to harden our hearts (a very very very bad thing to happen, for women’s sake), and learn not to trust.

But anyway, yeah, I reached the same point you did a few years ago, where I was at that line of crossing over into hatred for women. But thank God I did not cross it. Instead, I’ve become very leery of them, and don’t trust them, unless they have proved to me individually that they are trustworthy. I still hold open doors and give overall preferential treatment to women. The reason I still do that is, one, I believe it’s the right thing to do, and doing the right thing isn’t always easy; and two, because most women will not respond in a bad way. If nothing else, they’re neutral in their response.

But it’s the double-standard of man-bashing while at the same time accusing me of all sorts of vile and wicked things simply because of my gender, that really boils my blood. It’s this that keeps me at odds with women. If women would be honest with themselves about who they are and what they want, then we could begin to have a genuine, constructive interaction.

Until then, well, I don’t know what to say.

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Snark January 21, 2010 at 14:35

I still hold open doors and give overall preferential treatment to women. The reason I still do that is, one, I believe it’s the right thing to do, and doing the right thing isn’t always easy; and two, because most women will not respond in a bad way. If nothing else, they’re neutral in their response.

So you act as a lickspittle for indifferent Queens, because you believe in an archaic morality which has always been to your detriment.

Riiiiight.

Tell you what, when we’re all clamboring for the lifeboats, you can give up your seat to a woman. But you’re not giving up mine. Hope you can swim, because whoever that woman is, she’s taking that seat without a single thought towards your well-being or the sacrifice you made.

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Jim T. January 21, 2010 at 14:41

Canadian girl,
I think your heart is in the right place, but you are simply not aware of what’s going on here. This isn’t a whine-fest, and things expressed here are not because of things one or two women did to a particular man. It’s because of the cultural, systemic man-hatred/contempt that men have grown up with. I’m not calling for an overthrowing of a system, the way feminists insist they want the “patriarchy” overthrown. I, like the men here, want genuine reasonableness, or at least a significant reduction in the close-minded, mindless hatred and assumptions that prevent honest, selfless discussions and interactions between men and women.

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fedrz January 21, 2010 at 14:44

I still hold open doors and give overall preferential treatment to women. The reason I still do that is, one, I believe it’s the right thing to do, and doing the right thing isn’t always easy;

Why is it the right thing to do?

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Migu January 21, 2010 at 14:46

Canadian girl, I think full of hate. I think your heart is a beating mass of cells keeping your blood flowing. Your post says it all.

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Jim T. January 21, 2010 at 14:50

Why is it the right thing to do?

Very simply, because it is the right thing to do. It really doesn’t need explaining. If you want it explained, well, the only response I have the desire to give at this point is what the USA’s founding fathers said in the Declaration, “We hold these truths to be self-evident”. Meaning, some things are just self-evident.

If that’s not good enough, well then my friend I don’t know what else to say. It’s all I have to say on that particular matter.

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Kulak January 21, 2010 at 14:57

Very simply, because it is the right thing to do. It really doesn’t need explaining.

Wow, what arrogance on your part with that conceited statement.

Are you reading from the same playbook as ‘Null-n-void’?

Seriously though, if something really is innately and inherently true, what’s the problem then explaining it to us lesser beings, who are not as wise and enlightened as you?

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fedrz January 21, 2010 at 14:58

Jim T.,

I am about the same age as you, and I once thought the same way.

But, I don’t anymore… because it is not self-evident, as you say.

If women are equal, then they deserve no special treatment.

“Just because” is an insufficient response, I’m afraid. In fact, chivalry is one of the root causes of all these problems. Women do not belong a pedastal. There are many more articles on this site, and on sites linked from here, that explore this issue at length.

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Snark January 21, 2010 at 15:00

How can a truth be self-evident when it can be so easily contested?

It is up to you to defend your statement that it is ‘simply right’.

Since you can offer up no defence whatsoever, other than a reiteration of its being right, I take it that you have none.

You have simply been conditioned to serve. Now you clamor for the comfort and familiarity of your chains.

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dcm January 22, 2010 at 04:40

In essence, feminism proves in so many ways that the majority of women actually are inferior.

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Black&German January 22, 2010 at 05:59

If women are equal, then they deserve no special treatment.

Women are equal, but they’re not the same. It’s a slight distinction, but a powerful one.

Anyway, I’ve found that some people are rude, and some people are courteous. Some people are gracious and some are not. I frequently have women and men hold doors open for me, or pick up something I’ve dropped, or help me on the stairs with a stroller. And I reciprocate the kindness. Not everything has to be a gender war.

We must also remember that now that many men are the primary caretakers of their children, it is actually they who are more vulnerable. So, if I see a man carrying a small child board a full train, I’ll offer him my seat. Or if my husband is carrying in something, I’ll go hold open the door for him.

A bit of empathy is called for. And perhaps some of you guys are living in areas where the gender wars have reached an uncomfortable peak.

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J. Durden January 22, 2010 at 06:02

Women are equal, but they’re not the same. It’s a slight distinction, but a powerful one.

This is the kind of thinking that got us to our present situation. It is far better to simply state that men and women are not the same, or to add a caveat that women are perhaps of “equal worth” or worthy of “equal consideration.” Stating that they are simply equal to men implies that there are no significant differences, and, furthermore, through repeated use (see also language ideologies) erases important and meaningful differences from public consciousness.

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Snark January 22, 2010 at 06:11

Worthy of treatment as equals – not equal treatment.

That means that if you fuck up, you should expect to be judged as would a man who fucks up.

NOT that when you fuck up, you get treated equally to a man who has NOT fucked up, which is what feminists agitate for.

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Black&German January 22, 2010 at 06:18

Feminists have tried to take chivalry to national level. That doesn’t make sense because it’s an intensely personal phenomenon. It would be like trying to legislate cuddling or someone’s taste in food.

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David Brandt January 22, 2010 at 09:16

@Jim T.
I hold open doors for men who are carrying things out of common courtesy (I get a “thanks” in return which is a simple acknowledgment. They do the same for me. If a woman is behind me, I don’t even give it a second thought. A number of years ago, I actually tried holding the door for women who were carrying groceries, etc. I didn’t hear anything from them–they don’t even have the concept of common courtesy—- attitude told me everything. You’ve come a long way, baby.

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b February 11, 2010 at 13:12

That’s really beautiful, Zed, thank you, you might like this:

http://slumberwall.bandcamp.com/track/women

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Ken Downing November 12, 2010 at 07:36

I think you need to step back and consider what it is about your personality, or what might be lacking in yourself that’s causing you to interact only with the lowest dregs of womankind.

You probably can’t see the flaws in your personality that’s causing it, but I guarantee you that you aren’t a completely innocent victim. Why? Because plenty of men out there have found a lifetime of love and happiness with good, faithful women who genuinely love them. There’s got to be something about your personality, or some thing that you’re doing that turns off good women and attracts the worst women, so figure out what that thing is and change it.

I can also guarantee you that you will never, ever, ever, ever manage to attract a good woman if you continue along this line of thought. I find that misogynists do have an extraordinarily hard time attracting good women, because loving and honest women are turned off by a bitter, please-pity-me victim attitude. Generally, the only women misogynists are able to attract are the types who only want a man to use as a meal ticket or an ATM card. So it’s very unfortunate, but sadly, your love life is unlikely to change for the better unless you can put the self-pity behind you.

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logic101 January 15, 2011 at 17:47

“I think you need to step back and consider what it is about your personality, or what might be lacking in yourself thats causing you to interact only with the lowest dregs of womankind.”

I think you unfortunately MISSED THE POINT. Plenty of men today are dealing with this and Zed did a great job explaining it.

“You probably cant see the flaws in your personality thats causing it, but I guarantee you that you arent a completely innocent victim. Why? Because plenty of men out there have found a lifetime of love and happiness with good, faithful women who genuinely love them.

That is true for SOME men BUT remember people usually change with time. Again, I believe you missed what Zed was writing about. The REAL flaws are widespread in America, but you’re certainly welcome to keep your blinders on. It is our flawed society and how the family courts/law, culture, people, media…etc. treat men & fathers and (for the most part ‘get away with it’). This only helps ‘promote’/solidify most of the problems we see today. Feminism, Marxism and fascism are all interrelated and they do nothing to promote healthy societies.

Theres got to be something about your personality, or some thing that youre doing that turns off good women and attracts the worst women, so figure out what that thing is and change it.”

Really? His personality? Wow, I hear some men find being nice and opening doors for women gets them kicked in the knee & shamed. HummmMaybe he should game/adapt and become a bad boy/thug? Oh wait! That actually works for many men today. Can you say PUA?? In fact, many young women fall for it. Why lie and put on a show? I believe men should just GTOW and live life on their own terms.

“I can also guarantee you that you will never, ever, ever, ever manage to attract a good woman if you continue along this line of thought. I find that misogynists do have an extraordinarily hard time attracting good women, because loving and honest women are turned off by a bitter, please-pity-me victim attitude. Generally, the only women misogynists are able to attract are the types who only want a man to use as a meal ticket or an ATM card. So its very unfortunate, but sadly, your love life is unlikely to change for the better unless you can put the self-pity behind you.”

Thanks for that but youre avoiding the truth on how bad things have gotten for men in America. You keep drinking the Kool-Aid and Ill keep living in reality. A growing number of women in the west look at men as mainly walking ATM’s, doormats and sperm donors. I’d rather not participate in that incredible adventure. I have better things to do with my time.

****Important question for you Ken Downing*****
Why would any sane/well off man want to get involved with the typical westernized/modern female in a “rigged anti-male/ant-father feminized/western society? Butbut.but. NAWALT? True, but FAMILY COURTS ARE LIKE THAT IN AMERICA. There are better options outside of the troubled western world. Smart men GTOW.

* Thank you Zed for your great post. I hope more men understand this and wise up quickly.

Logic101

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Reality January 26, 2011 at 12:49

When a man says that he is chivalrous or a “nice guy”, he usually means: “I’m kind and attentive to women who are physically beautiful, who have hourglass figures and who are under 30 – or look that young.” Remember George Sodini, poster child for the pua/ misogynist movement? He could have had dated, had a girlfriend, probably could have “gotten laid.” But Sodini was only interested in “hotties”, generally young enough to be his daughter. So, shock of all shocks, he wound up lonely and bitter. He did not understand the phrase “out of my league.” The “Green River killer” was another misogynist freak who murdered prostitutes because they weren’t giving away free sex, as all women should. Most of the less dangerous misogynists hate women for two reasons: 1) Not offering free and easy sex AND 2) Not looking like a centerfold . The mixture of unrealistic expectations and hostility when those expectations are not met = lonely, horny, bitter man who hates women. He blames women but not his own inflated ego and sense of sexual entitlement.

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logic101 January 27, 2011 at 12:26

Reality says…….”When a man says that he is chivalrous or a nice guy, he usually means: Im kind and attentive to women who are physically beautiful, who have hourglass figures and who are under 30 or look that young.

No Reality, most men do not think the way you put it. Also, chivalry is dead and women killed it. Most nice guys actually are(gasp) nice but most women don’t “see them”. They are invisible to them. Many women associate “nice guys” as pushovers/weak men & go for the “bad boy”. Sodinis life could have been much different if he only realized that he had much better options outside of the poisoned/feminized western culture. I dont condone what he did. It was despicable. I only wish he could have experienced real life outside of our crumbling western culture FIRST. His life and the women he would have met would have been radically different. It would have likely changed his outlook on many fronts.

* No Reality, the real problem here is how the family courts, society and government abuse the rights of one group of people for the benefit of another group of people. This destroys the fabric of our society in America.(the family unit and removing the father from it.). It really is that simple. No sane, proper, well off man would ever sign up with the marriage/divorce racket today in America. Thankfully men have better options outside of the feminist utopia here in America.

Logic101

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udolipixie March 22, 2011 at 16:10

Women hating lead to man hating.

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[email protected] March 22, 2011 at 16:14

Women hating lead to man hating.

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Mariya March 23, 2011 at 10:39

I’m a woman. That is a first.
I was naive and loving, trusting and supportive. Until men made me despise them. That is a second.
I have a beautiful and wonderful baby son. I do not wish to castrate him psychologically, but I fear I might as I am not able to trust any men. No more as I do not wish to get harmed for naivety. That is a third.

And for that the majority of True Men have contributed.

You are the ones that create us, so thank yourselves.

Is it because you’ve lost your purpose in a relationship?

A woman is able to give birth, raise, feed, provide tuition for children and support herself. They are striving, almost hanging themselves for them and their future, whereas husbands lack off and are being supported by wives both financially and emotionally while doing no additional value, e.g. cleaning, cooking, shopping, paying the bills, etc., which housewives do and which is therefore regarded as a free service. While she manages to stand the emotional pressure and go through water and fire at workplace, he just retreats and states:”I do not feel quite well, the atmosphere in this job kind of doesn’t suit me, thus I figure I will take off for an unlimited time amount”. They do not need children and do not give a damn about them as well, only about their buddies down there and how to satisfy those (also, there isn’t any frigid woman. There are men who don’t turn-on at all).

This afternoon my father told me he does not love nor wish to be with me and that he is doing me a favour getting into some shitty business for max. a hour during a working day (the rest he spends on the internet games), which doesn’t even cover his own food expenses. He has fathered three daughters, the youngest a baby still. Our mother supported him for 20 years, her parents as well (he took over 200 000$ to start a business, which he dumped after half a year, and isn’t likely to give back). If it were for himself, he would lay off with a beer and do nothing. He is 40 years old. We have no car, neither a house or even a private flat, we have to rent and have no wealth, only loans.

Let’s take out the gender. How is that a responsible adult’s behaviour?

That made the last ounce of patience and tolerance toward men, because I myself gave my virginity, my soul and flesh to a man because I loved him and wished him well. He was in a deep shit at the time. And I supported him, whereas he simply used me for fun, as I later got to know.
Now I’m with his child, almost alone and a hard perspective on life.
While he enjoys his independence and easy life.

Easy come-easy go. And no sense of adultness or responsibility.

That is why I hate True Men.

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Angela May 3, 2011 at 21:56

Firstly, thank you Zed for writing so respectfully. This issue is being addressed all over the internet, but I appreciate that you didn’t feel the need to attack women with slurs.

Second, I am a woman sensitive to male issues. This stems from the fact that my brother and I were so close when we were little. He saw, and is still seeing, injustices that don’t apply to me and that always made me angry. I’ve never really discussed his views on misogyny, but I would imagine he subscribes to this sentiment. It bothers both of us how men are portrayed on television as boorish oafs incapable of using a swiffer.

Third, my mother raised me to be polite. I’m a door holder myself (for the elderly and anyone who happens to be standing behind me when I enter a building) so when a man holds the door for me, I ALWAYS say thank you. I would have some harsh words for a woman who throws a fit when a door is held for her. (What’s your problem? Were you so desperate to put your hands on that filthy doorknob that you need to interrupt the flow of foot traffic? Bitch needs to choose her battles.)

Fourth, personally I have had a lot of bad experiences with irresponsible and disrespectful men. That is partly how I found my way here. It never ceases to amaze me that some men have no problem using women but get fiercely angry when women treat them that way. I think the old adage, “treat others as you’d like to be treated,” applies here, so it’s immensely satisfying to hear a man exclaim, “you’re only using me for sex!” Well, what did you expect?

Lastly, I’m young. Unmarried, no kids. Given my past, and my generations’ attitudes about entitlement and accountability, I’d hardly trust any man my age to hold his end of the bargain when it comes to raising children. I know first-hand how important fathers are and how badly kids suffer without them (just being there. I’m not talking about money.) Maybe a generation of women needs to be reminded of just how important men are. If there is going to be some kind of protesting against family law favoring women (arguably just to get the overwhelming number of divorce cases over and done with in time for a round of golf…which is why no-fault divorce became legal in the first place) I’d like to be involved and raise awareness however I can.

Ultimately, I resent being punished for third-wave feminism going too far…but if that’s the way it’s going to be, I guess there is nothing I can do. I’ve just set up my first IRA and I’m settling in with my dog and a nice book for a long…..long Spinsterhood. It’s so ironic that I can do this without a man thanks to feminism.

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ND July 11, 2011 at 18:25

This is all very logical and very evident today. You reference some seriously historic events dating back before I was even born. What is even MORE sick is that today…it is an excepted way of life for women. I cannot tell you how many times I have “held the door open” or moved a chair etc…now they don’t say anything or even will say a “thank you” and then plot about how to exploit such a fool for doing so. These days women USE the system as a back-bone of their man-hating and do so with a vengence. I have NEVER been treated with the same amount of respect that I have treated women with and even more so…I have been punished for it time and time again. I remember growing up and listening to my elders (as respectful people do) and not a single one of them (males) encouraged me to get married, have a lasting relationship or even try to. That ALL of them have been beaten for it. Whether literally or as a metaphor. It makes me sick. Feminist? What is the equal term for that for us? When do we reach a point where WE say WE have had ENOUGH? Laws are written everyday by the SAME women that would just assume shoot me or any man out there for not doing “what she says.” I cannot count how many times I have seen men beaten more or less…wheter emotionally, physically or even financially for being a better person. Meanwhile the lighter side of the group of fish profit off of men out there that already treat them as objects…more or less how they treat us. Like a bike they ride until another one presents itself or another avenue of which to climb lands in between their legs. I’m not a hater, nor do I hate women I’m just not stupid. The day a fellow man tells a woman “NO” to ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING and stands by his fellow mate…is the day that this will all end. This has to stop and rather than just write about how I feel I would much rather get organized and support a structured and legal form of mens rights…because we are getting trampled on and there are no precious cows when it comes time for the slaughter. Meaning….it could be you next time. DOn’t underestimate a DAM thing anymore when it comes to the “trust me” or BS that women want you to believe. It’s a setup. I would rather believe and sometimes I have to, that women are no longer women. That an alien race has come and taken them over with us (MEN) as the weaker species because of what lies between their legs and not in their heads. That the media and government here is poisened with empowering manipulators and control freaks. When it comes down to feeling more comfortable being on camera 24 hours a day versus not being (I have actually thought about installing cameras in my home and work) and being accused of something or “harassment”….well that is pathetic. The fact that I cannot even TRUST a woman to be around me without thinking about “how can she screw me over” is PATHETIC! It happens everyday. GET ORGANIZED and you will have my support.

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Leela August 16, 2011 at 20:17

Come live in a Muslim country, and see why some women hate men! Mind you that if they were a little smarter, they would ditch the culture that creates those men (Islam)! Nature, and nurture, in the case of a Muslim man, hand in hand create nasty, selfish controlling and criminal creatures, who believe according to Allah words in Qoran, they are the better creatures, and their sad prophet Muhammad, has been quoted saying: If I was not fearful of pissing Allah off, Id demand women to bow and crawl to the feet of the men, so figure the rest. You know a freaking muslim man has the right to have four legal wives, and limitless concubines according to Islam, while his wife cannot leave the house if he does not like her to do so? Did you know in Islam, life of a woman is equal to the loss of a mans left testicle?! A pathetic man, is a pathetic man, not all men are equal, just the same as women. A pathetic man needs to be bashed into shape… If you cannot get the difference, too bad.

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d October 7, 2011 at 07:49

SUCH HATE! Women are just not worth it. Amazed at what they say!

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Marlene June 1, 2012 at 06:03

I realized over time – with sadness – that in our society it is kind of expected to ‘hate’ men. We women are constantly telling each other about all the ways our men fail. We are told how all the time how you are having more power and whenever a woman is taking side of men or trying other women to make understand that this is just oversimplyfing, we are ‘hated’ too. It is hard for a woman trying to understand the men’s side, because she will be looked at someone who is like breaking a code or she will be looked at as a woman who lives for the appreciation of men.
Those are two main sides in women. Those who ‘hate’ them in the many different ways or those who want men to admire them. Those will try to impress you as much as possible, hanging out with your friends but you will seldom see them having deep relationships with other women, because both sides dislike each other.
It seems to me that as woman you either ‘dislike’ men or you are trying everything to be appreciated and admired. It is sad that as a woman you seldom can escape those two stereotypes (though there are sure execptions..)
I often forget whether I talk to men or women..may sound weird, but it is the person that interests me, the soul – be it men or women.
We should stop hating each other and realizing that we are indeed very different and sometimes it is hard to understand each other, but it is a chance for us to learn about the other ‘half’.

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Howitzer August 6, 2012 at 08:49

>At least 10 years later, she called me out of the blue to apologize.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED. LOLOLOLOLOL

really, a man’s hurt feelings, 10 years later, suuuuuure

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Rob September 4, 2012 at 00:28

I consider myself a good man and have had terrible experiences with women. I thought a finally met a good woman but she started playing games with me, cancelling dates the last minute etc. (the usual woman routine). Finally I blew up and sent her a hate laced email calling her every name in the book. Even though I made no threats, a cop called me one day and said they were going to arrest me.

I ended up having to go to court an luckily pleaded the case down to a violation, so no criminal record. But, I had to pay a lawyer and the violation, although sealed now, may still be found through different ways should I ever go for a job, apply for a loan etc. Its not something that truly will ever go away.

I’ve never been able to trust another woman since then. I had horrible experiences leading up to that, but that incident was so traumatizing to me I could not simply brush it off. Knowing I victimized, and not being able to do anything about, I cant begin to describe the rage and anger I have felt ever since towards women.

One positive from the experience: It has taught me women cannot be trusted, and to never get married. Perhaps the violation record, and my lawyer fees, were a “small” price to pay if it saved me from potentially the huge mistake of trying to spend the rest of my life with one of these vile creatures.

And the police, and legal system, men included, are no better than these pig women. They aid them, and the women use them as a tool much like a carpenter uses a hammer.

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dionysosTheGr8 September 26, 2012 at 17:58

I’m from Western Europe and for many years I went through the metamorphosis described in this excellent article: I went first from being a guy who loved and cared about women (and genuinely empathised with them) to one who became suspicious of women in general and then loathed them back with equal venom. I saw several friends who had worked hard like dogs to provide for the women in their lives fall by the wayside, when either the Teddy Pendergrass music in the background or the money train eventually came to a dead halt. You could understand grounds of divorce in the instance of domestic violence, neglect, cruelty or adultery, but how can any party to a marriage of several years justify divorce because they cynically wish to realise in cold cash the value of assets held and use the courts to legally rob their spouse? Where did the much vaunted ‘love’ suddenly go? I say there was never any ‘love’ to start with. It was a business arrangement from start to finish and as jungle stories go, things simply ended in a well-premeditated ambush. Judging from the harrowing stories I’ve heard, from a man’s POV, it makes one almost feel that you are likely to get much better odds on the class of ‘lady’ and better service at your local bunny ranch…than one of these____ you find yourself playing Russian Roulette with in a relationship.

As I write this, a few of my friends are still locked in the family court system and some have lost their savings, houses, businesses and most of their sanity in the process. Hell, some of it even happened to me. I was just luckier than most. However, what I first thought was just a trend amongst my small circle of friends seems to have been replicated in several places elsewhere because many men in my country have reverted back to typical male, non-committal, urban guerrilla dating tactics. As a result, more and more women in my part of the world are finding themselves alone and getting unhappier, lonelier with less options as they get older – and many are turning to drugs, booze and ‘free’ booty call sex. To go into this in detail needs a whole article in itself.

It seems the relationship between the sexes was always more delicate than anybody ever imagined. It may have been even as slender as the thread of a spider’s web and I personally believe the day of reckoning for these stupid feminists has already come. The consequence of the insidious damage they have caused to our social fabric via family life is so widespread and its effects are now generational, that one would have to be walking around blindfolded not to see it. Here, the government even made cohabiting much easier and still this has not improved anything.

Such is my horror at the current state of affairs, that I have stopped dating from my own country and culture altogether. Four years ago I pulled myself back from hating all women and gave the dice one last throw. I have finally found a woman who is from a culture that still has some respect for men and where a man showing affection for his woman is still considered to be at a premium. My girlfriend took me East last year to meet her family and I saw many Europeans out there completely acclimatized to the language and culture with no intention of ever coming back. I admit that sometime towards the end of this year I will be joining them. I feel terrible about leaving everything I know behind but my mind is made up. I’m going.

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dylan terreri, i November 9, 2012 at 11:58

i can do all things through testosterone which strengthens me.

and i’m here to remind you, my little lady, that going through childbirth and labor doesn’t make you tough. maybe if you didn’t scream like michael jackson or take painkillers to deal with the pain, you’d be tough. actually, you’d be tough if you didn’t regard it as painful. the truth is, childbirth doesn’t make you tough…and it sure as hell doesn’t grow your pathetic muscles into something substantial enough for you to be considered “strong”. i went through a car crash, i went through the windshield, i went through weeks in a coma…and i was a skinny little schoolboy with lackluster physical abilities. there was nothing tough about me, there certainly was nothing strong about me – yet somehow i survived in spite of the doctors who told my parents that i would die. there was nothing tough about me, yet somehow i lived through more agony than that of mere childbirth. my body was weak, as i never exercised or played sports – i was an actor, for crying out loud. i could act quite masculine…but i was the antithesis. sometimes i did act manly, and they may have called me “masculine Wannabee,” but i’m sure if i was female then my histrionics would have earned me the title of “Strongwoman”.

man, oh, man…being “tough,” being “strong,” these are not justified by a baby who exits one’s womb, man. wombman, wombn, woman, you may scream in agonizing pain, but so did i when the doctors were putting my fisted hands into splints to keep them from staying fisted. i’m sure that my ten curled fingers being stretched and straightened in preparation for the splint was just as painful an ordeal as when your baby-receptacle was being stretched in the deliverance of a baby. both ordeals simply had to be done. we both only endured pain, though, and that doesn’t make anyone tough . and if pain made me tough then i sure wish someone would have told jana olszyk – she was hot. she was into the tough jocks. er, the tough jocks were into her…actually, they were always going into her. all of them. i seem to remember her as a little slutty. maybe it was her make-up.

hmn…i’m not saying that there is no such thing as a “tough lady,” i’m not saying that “tough” isn’t a role, but a baby exiting a womb does not a tough lady make. i do believe that there is no such thing as a “strong woman” – but i guess each gender has a different definition of “strong”. i guess “strong for a woman” is how i’d describe my own level of strength. i’m certainly not “man strong,” not yet anyway…but masculine levels of testosterone sure make me more likely to get there. as a man, i am more likely to achieve a competent level of strength than a woman is. i can do all things through testosterone which strengthens me…which is more than i can for estrogen.

biology says that the role of the woman is to be a dairy provider. plain and simple, milk and eggs. the barbells at curves fitness say that the role of the wombn is to be lesser than what the barbells at the ymca say that the role of the man is. the u.s. olympic competitions say that the abilities of the wombn must not compete against the abilities of the men, why would that be? is there a lesser gender that wants to be placated into thinking there’s such a thing as gender-equality? isn’t that cute? “a woman can do anything a man can do,” oh, it’s so warm and fuzzy.

the lies we tell.

saying that pregnancy makes females tougher than men, well, that’s as much a matter of “grasping for straws” as the gay “man” who says that homosexuality is superior to heterosexuality because “men know what men like”. i have actually heard gays reason this way. in their world, pleasure trumps everything. still, though, gay “men” might know what men like..but they’re proud not to know much else as they gawk in utter amazement and wonderment and puzzled confusion at a penis. i don’t know how many porn videos i’ve seen in which gay “men” cock their heads when staring at a penis, as if to say “penis makes us go hmmn…”.

prince had a song called “i wonder u,” and it should have been the theme song to a movie about two masculivoids who wore cowboy hats.

women spurt blood and lay eggs, women spout milk, women were designed for motherhood – female olympians do not compete with men because they don’t stand a chance. they are the lesser and they cannot do “anything a man can do”. gay guys marvel at masculinity like they’re a bunch of gender-deficient masculivoids, they have no esteem or love for themselves as a legitimate member of their own gender – they are the lesser and that’s why they search for the man of their dreams in somebody ELSE. maybe if a feminist was man enough to turn a gay guy on, we’d have the quintessential progressive family – where the man submits to the wife as he pats himself on the head for not being the “male chauvinist” of yesteryear. where the female controls the husband as she pats herself on the head for not letting her ever-submissive vagina define who she is. oh, we are already there – Strongwoman is the controller and the protector of the family…her hips widened so nicely as an adolescent, i’m sure she’d be able to use them to stand her ground against the man – that broad-shouldered criminal who will break into her house with plans to harm her kids after they’ve suckled her milk jugs and were put into their cribs.. maybe Strongwoman’s vagina could shoot a bloody egg at him, once she used her assisted pull-up machine to be tall enough to face him eye-to-eye before she spreads her legs and shoots him with a tidal wave of blood. i’m sure she could use her breasts to shoot some milk at him, too.

maybe after she defeats the bad man with her menstrual cycle and her MOMmary glands, she’d think to audition for a movie. she’d read for kevin costner’s role and she’d command her husband to read for whitney houston’s role in a remake of “the bodyguard”.

Strongwoman to the rescue! therrrrrrrrrrrrre’s no need to fear, Strongwoman’s here! Strongwoman can do all things because childbirth strengthened her. hmn, i used to practically scream in pain on the bench-press…but i stopped screaming once my chest became stronger. the funny thing is, Strongwoman screams every time she’s giving birth to a baby…does labor really strengthen her?

dylan terreri, i
http://www.strongwomen.info
…..
“When I’m hungry, I eat. When I’m thirsty, I drink. When I feel like saying something, I say it.” – Madonna
http://www.jaggedlittledyl.com/essays

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harley November 14, 2012 at 07:12

I am sorry to hear of your woes with women. I agree with you that there are too many man-hating women out there. I knew them all my life and were friends with one too many of them. I now live without any female friends because I strongly disagree with the way they view and treat men. Being a woman myself, I miss having girlfriends to share female related subjects with. What I don’t miss the the constant gossiping and mistreatment of their boyfriends/husbands. A couple of girlfriends of mine went as far as trying to seduce my husband to create a rift between me and him because I wanted to take care of him. I cook for my husband and I care for his physical as well as mental well-being. I stay home and take care of our two children. I treat him like a king most of the time because he, in return, treats me like a queen. I also don’t pretend to be what I am not. My husband takes care of the areas of our lives outside of the home because I am not good with it and I manage most of the on-goings in the household (my strength). We make every decision together because I believe our relationship is not unilateral. Most of all, my goal in life is to create a HAPPY family because I grew up in one where my parents yelled at each other all the time. My mom also told us how incompetent dad was and she would yell it to his face five days out of the week. I learned from a young age that treating men like that only made things worse not better. They are still married out of fear. But there are not even friends, just two people living with each other. It is so depressing that I have stopped visiting them because all my mom would to is complain about the men in her life for hours on end. I know there is very little hope, but even if there is a thread of hope, you will be able to find love and happiness. in time. I wish you the best and don’t change who you are on the account of these women or they win.

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Bill February 9, 2013 at 10:16

so many women nowadays are very mean to us good men. and if you try to start a conversation with the one that you like to meet, she will be very nasty and walk away. it is bad enough that my wife cheated on me after fifteen years, and then meeting so many very unfriendly women just makes it much worse. so many of us good straight men out there looking for a love life again, makes me wonder that many women are gay nowadays.

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Kumar April 20, 2013 at 00:39

When i see tha ignorant Black & German’s comments my BP rises up.She thinks she’s SATI SAVITRI as we called our ancestors(ladies).We used to give her so much love,respect & care that she never felt un equal unlike that Black & German lady who’s probably a Witch(put B instead) or Men’s blood sucking Vampire as she expresses herself to love those characters…

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Kumar April 20, 2013 at 00:48

& also kill those weeds like MARIYA who hate all men for her bad selections,coz of these psychos all other women are getting falsely inspired & start spoiling there lives by hating MEN…
I’ve had enough of these ignorant bastards in my 20 years of age…

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Kumar April 20, 2013 at 00:55

& the women like LEELA feel that protecting them from others is a crime.Any muslims reading her comment see that the women u take care of when they become fat & immovable objects & need help for everything is now complaining about Muslim men…
God y are u seeing all these shits & y don’t u bring doom & start fresh again…

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Magnolia August 2, 2013 at 17:37

Would it be fair to say that misogynists are made, and misandrists are also made?

It seems to me that both feminism and misogyny is an extreme reaction to injustice.

Personally, I just long for a world where people stop the power games and figure out a way to honor and respect each other.

I’m no child either, by the way. I’m nearly 60. But the hate that men and women have for each other is utterly exhausting to me.

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emma September 6, 2013 at 20:43

Hello,

I am sorry to hear about your experiences. I am a Milliennial and am aware of how popular media (Hollywood films, romantic comedies, etc.) encourages men and women to distrust one another. Most of these films dehumanize both genders (in different ways) and portray very unhealthy relationships. I always define “romance” as an emotionally abusive relationship.

I have really nice male and female friends, and hope that popular hatred eventually comes to an end.

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Eve October 18, 2013 at 06:37

That’s funny. Feminism is actually a response to misogyny…It’s like the chicken or the egg, what came first? I
used to love boys/men, too. Until I was constally bullied, beaten up in primary school and bullied and harassed in high school. Feminism actually saved my life. It gave me my self-esteem back, and made me feel like I was a worthy human being again. But I don’t hate men. I just don’t want to have much to do with them. I’m still romantic, though. But I get my ‘romantic fix’ from music, books and films, instead of relationships. Maybe if men weren’t so cruel to me, things would be different. But that’s the reality.

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Anonymous January 31, 2014 at 03:35

Everything you have said, I have experienced. I am with you all the way. I just want women to leave me the hell along and I guarantee I will not be bothering them.

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